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One Hell of a Work Ethic

HiHo“Gotta work late” is the oldest cheater excuse in the book. The lamest. The most worn. And a line nearly every chump falls for.

Because, God, it sounds so virtuous. Who are you to call them on their shit when they are busting their ass for their family working over time? Aside from the fact that so many affairs are with co-workers, working late is the perfect front for cheaters — work phone, work email the spouse cannot access, work trips partners don’t often go on. The workplace is the ideal place for secret kibble production. Best of all, “working late” fits the cheater image of a Very Important Person with Very Important Things to Do.

You don’t understand that? Well, I think you fail to appreciate how hard they are working! Gee, don’t you have the cushy life. Perhaps you are not working hard enough. I think you missed a few things here at home. Could you pick the place up more? That’s NOT the way you make stewed tomatoes. Why are we out of coffee? Jesus, can’t you see the cheater is working over time for YOU? Can’t you be more understanding and helpful? You’re very selfish.

Recognize the mindfuck anyone? Yeah, me too. My cheater tried to tell me he had to work late Christmas Eve. Terrible, oppressive billable hours Must Be Made. He suffered so, and I just failed to sympathize sufficiently with How Much Pressure He Was Under. Of course, I couldn’t. I was a lesser being. Not a lawyer like him. But a self-employed “hippy chick” (who was doing contract work for a software company when DDay hit, 6 months after our marriage, after I financed his career move to another state, relocated my child,  single handedly unpacked our house, landscaped a yard, oversaw remodeling, and entertained his family during a weeklong visit. Hey, it wasn’t a completely unproductive six months).

The “I gotta work late” excuse is such a mindfuck precisely because they cloak themselves in the mantle of exactly what they are not — a team player. Someone who is going above and beyond for others at work and at home. Meanwhile, the truth of the matter is that they’re out whoring around, partying, drinking, “hiking the Appalachian trail,” doing what cheaters do — indulging themselves at the expense of others.

Do they really believe that they’re such hard workers? I would imagine what little work they do manage to do feels very unfair to them, unless it brings about mounds of kibbles (ego, monetary, and otherwise). But no one sufficiently appreciates them, of course. Funny thing about cheaters and work ethics — their entitlement often slops over into their working life. No surprise that narcissists tend to make poor employees — they just don’t think the rules apply to them. And work tends to have a lot of rules. It’s not uncommon that these are the people who can’t advance in their jobs, whose contracts don’t get renewed, who have a lot of bosses who don’t like them, and they have a lot of sad stories about that. Jealous coworkers, supervisors who have it in for them, batshit crazy women making allegations about harassment. They try so hard. There are just a lot of idiots in the workplace.

Then there are a whole host of cheaters who don’t work at all, or are under-employed, quite content to let the chump do all the heavy lifting of adult life. These people tend to overvalue their contribution to the marital home (“I shook something out of a bag and called it dinner — what’s your problem?”) and undervalue yours.

When DDay hit, I found a certain amount of relief — oh, so THAT’s where you were! One of the great advantage of escaping a cheater is the peace that comes from not relying on these jerks. You’ll feel a burden has been lifted, because you realize quite quickly how much work you were doing to keep their chaotic, uninvested life whole. Direct that energy towards yourself. Mr/s Cheaterpants can find a new personal assistant.

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  • Yep, that’s how my ex did it as well. He went on legitimate business trips usually twice a month, but always had to take the “early flight” (ie, he left two hours early and met up with a hooker on the way to the airport) and had to take the “late flight” home (another hookup on the way home). If he was lucky enough to be traveling to an urban area, he would indulge while there as well.

    When he was home, he got up at 4 am, but then spent 2 hours “relaxing” (porn) in front of the computer, but when I suggested he should just get into work earlier so he could come home earlier to actually spend time with his kids, he was all affronted. He took long lunches for work, had “appointments” that he had to miss work for, and came home late. And yes, I was *proud* he was putting in so much time at work, thinking that however incongrous it was that he couldn’t be bothered to lift a finger at home, at least he was responsible in his career!

    He also had the requisite “problems with co-workers” at work as well. They were, indeed, all idiots and just couldn’t understand his greatness. Why didn’t they bow down to him? How dare they insinuate things! Because you are right – they don’t like to follow rules. They are above rules!

    Things are so much easier to recognize and interpret on the other side.

    • And, OMG, where did you get the picture of my ex for your cartoon??? The same cul-de-sac hair! The morbidly obese gut! All he needs to be a mirror image is sloppier clothes (read ratty t-shirt and flappy jeans) and pointy man-boobs!

    • But then there are the others… My serial cheater husband is an academic, and very successful in his research and teaching career, and well-liked by colleagues and staff. But his profession involves giving talks and otherwise attending a lot of academic conferences away from home each year, and also six- and eight-week-long research trips abroad. I have always worked full-time and of course couldn’t take off six or eight weeks to travel with him, so guess what? And when he’s not traveling, the university is a 40 minute commute from home, so how does one keep oneself occupied between one’s 11 o’clock department meeting and 3 pm seminar…?

    • Here’s the funny thing: after dday I was talking with some friends of ours. STBX had, at one point, worked with the husband. The husband told me that STBX is not nearly as great at his work as he thinks he is and that his arrogance is what lost him several contracts.

      And yes, STBX thought everyone was an idiot, they never appreciated his greatness and he only really got along with those who told him how fantastic he was.

  • Often one of the biggest jolts following D-Day is finding out how much effort your spouse put into the affair. It’s like they have this sliver of their life in which they’re international jewel thieves or cold war secret agents (double agents?). Long chains of lies, pass codes, secret post office boxes, elaborate itineraries, computer screen names, late night drives, coded language, faked documents, cover stories, secret purchases, carefully-timed rendevous, and in the case of my ex a flight to Portland to visit a friend of ours from college that was really a flight to Vegas to hook-up with her Guild Leader from World of Warcraft (she called every night to talk to me and my sons and tell about her day in Portland). Oh, and don’t get me started about WoW (where she met more than one OM). I found out through the divorce that she’d spent about 5,000 hours on it over the course of the prior 3 years (for reference, a full-time job involves 2,000 hours per year). Sadly, I tolerated the idea that immersing herself in a virtual world so her Troll Priest could reach level 60 or 70 or WTF-ever was “working late.” All the while, our marriage, our sons, our house, her business, and anything intellectual or spiritual in our lives received short shrift from her—or nothing at all. The contrast between what the affair got from of her and what was left over for the rest of us was a hard-swung 2×4, to be sure.

    The up-side of the slacker-cheater tendency is that shedding yourself of such an unhelpful person really doesn’t leave you with many new burdens. Whether you knew it or not, you were doing without them already.

    Having said that, I must confess that I consider running out of coffee a household catastrophe.

    • World of Warcraft??? Really? How old is she 12?? That is ridiculous. And pretty pathetic. You were married to a spoiled, whiny child, nomar. Glad you ditched the burden.
      So true regarding how much effort cheaters put into having the affair. That IS what is so chilling. The real them is frightening. Creepy. And all that time you were in love with an illusion. A myth. The reality of the real person inside is hideous and ugly. Void of all character.
      I am relieved too. I ditched that cheater and realize, I was doing everything alone anyway, and carrying my weight of living daily life. I will be just fine without his lying, cheating ass in my life. Mindfuck. Cheat. Thief. Liar. Weak. Coward. Hypocrite. Abuser. Traits I despise in a person. Future is looking better and better without his vile ways dragging me down making me doubt my myself. It was him. Not me. And the truth shall set you free!!!

      • What is that World of Warcraft thing? I’m not an on-line gamer and I have to admit, I have zero curiousity about it, but, I know of at least 2 marriages that were blown apart by spouses getting involved with other WOW gamers? At least one left her husband for a guy she had never even met!!! Well, eventually she did met him but it was after she’d ruined everything….. that’s so weird, I can’t relate at all. Never underestimate the power of imagination I guess. WTF.

        My X, way back when, was “going to school” or “studying”…….

      • Oh Rose,
        I got lunch time calls Too, that’s how much he loved me!

        Leaving for work at 6AM when work starts at 8 and is only 5 minutes away? Going to grab a coffee and sit by the beach.

        Just going for a ride. For an hour or two.

        Home late? Working.

        You are so right Rose…it was him.

        I thought it was me.

        Oh I feel sick sick sick!

        • Toni:

          Your spouses excuses sound sadly familiar.

          The two hour ride excuse and leaving too early for work, now irks me. I let him go on the rides because I always thought that giving someone space and free time to be alone with themselves would make the marriage stronger.

          Well, at least in my case it didn’t. It’s all so sad and confusing.

          I did have friends who were telling me they would never let their husband go out with the boys so often or on solo two hour rides. I should have listened.

        • Toni, So terrible isn’t it? Good resolve to stay strong and continue NC. He needs a good kick of facing reality and consequences in his Cheaterpants!
          Hmm.. Grabbing coffee and sitting on the beach before work sounds nice. I would do that, but am not on the coast. Nice way to start the morning. I would so do that if I were you and mentally give him the finger while sipping my coffee. You get to enjoy life!!! Fuck you Cheaterpants! And then focus on the good in your life. Positives Goals. Dreams.

          • Rose,
            Thank you, I’m trying but now that I changed the locks adjusting to waking up alone, coming home to an empty house and waking up knowing I’m alone is really freaking me out. Even though I was alone most of the time anyway, and now know I was alot more alone than I ever imagined makes me so sad. My God how many times can I say alone in one paragraph? It’s just how I feel. Empty. Stupid. Useless. Old. Sadsadsadsadsad… Not sleeping real well either, and I know that’s making things worse. I must have been in total shock the last week or so.

            Then I remember things like the last few days that I let him stayed here he actually demanded that I DO NOT lock the deadbolt – because his key wouldn’t work in it ( pre lock change). WTF? I’m supposed to not securely lock the front door so that when when he’s ready to come in at night he can get in??? AAAHHHHH!!!

            Sara S – I felt he should have his “space” too…We are adults and we should’nt HAVE to keep tabs on someone…I really don’t want to live that way….I feel like I’m living in a nightmare that I can’t wake up from…

            • I am so sorry Toni! Do you have family and/or friends that can stay with you for a bit during this difficult period? You are a smart, worthy, beautiful lady that is strong enough to claim her life back. I so hard. But not impossible. Rally your friends and family around you now. You need all the support you can get. It will make you stronger to have a good support system. Take very good care of yourself. It is time to take care of you now. Eat whatever you can get down. Even a few bites. You must keep up your physical health. Are you seeing a counselor to help and give you some insight? Take vitamins, sleep when you can. Walk. Start a journal. Cry and cry some more. Breathe. Get the toxicity out. There is no way to get around this, but through it. Feel the grief, anger, sadness. It is overwhelming, but you will get throug it. Talk about it all you need to. Hang in there Toni!!!!!!

              • Rose, journalling, nibbling, don’t want / afraid to give up my territory. i have my two grown daughters I stay in contact with all day who live here. They are looking this as a fight for Mom and I can tell you the little one is a pitbull when it comes to me, so I am vy lucky there. Right now you all have been wonderful therapy….I all of a sudden feel much better, altho’ he called earlier and only let it ring once. Don’t think it was an accident. Did not pick up or call back ( this is the 2nd time he’s done it I think he is messing with me)…but GOOD NEWS, I just painted my toenails!!! :). Baby Steps…If I ever win the lottery CL is going to be a winner too! XO

      • hi rose i sooo understand your feelings im at the stage were i strongly suspect. hes having affair with woman at work [bosses daughter] . but he denies it to the point of really having terrible nasty blow upps at me, then he goes to work and he rings me may be 3 or 4 times then it stopps after 4.30 [ when he should be home then i get call to say sorry working late. or [no call atall] i am over it ihe has had me thinking im loosing it. but no way [ as i have been here once before, [ previous marriage. and so know the sighns. if their cheating its a vicious circle. one minute their cold and aloof and violeny temper slamming around [ sepecially when you questio. things. then they become this creep who is a;llover you like a bad rash [ of course thats the guilt. [that they fel for may be 20 mins to half hour [ehile they screw you sensless. [ because they can [ and we still delude our selfs it will be ok. [ but i know i wont, [and now im pregnant too. [ but im not telling him , im just leaving as hes not worthy of either of us. im hurting but my coommon sense of decency and loyalty. is taking presedence, over the affair. is my gut feeling right. or am i just as insecure and wrong as he says i am [ ps hes also quite controlling and didnt show that in the beginining of our relationship, i have suck by him through cancer scare and supported him after operation etc and all the usual stuff. any way have to see a lawyer when im outta here. good luck to you girls in same boat. [but trust your intuition [or guts as its normally 75 percent correct. [ stats from private invesigator. kind thoughts to all lyddia

    • So true about not having many new burdens. Weirdly, the one thing I really notice is that I have a lot less laundry. He generated so much more than I realised and now that it’s just the three of us I do laundry about half the time.

      As far as everything else I was already doing it all so nothing has changed.

  • Ugh. No kidding on that one. Mr. Cheaterpants (Great one CL!) would drive to OW’s house and apparently bang the ho mistress on his lunch break. First, he would call me to see how my day was… Around his lunchbreak. How thoughtful I thought at the time.. But no, it was to keep tabs on where I was. And to cover his ass. And to say he had to work late.. Tough when he worked so hard on his break. Many times I asked to meet him for lunch. Nope. Come home and I would fix him lunch. Nope. Too busy he said. Drive would make it not worthwhile as he had only an hour. By the time he drove to the house and back that would only leave him a half hour.
    Don’t even get me started. Business trips? I asked to accompany him. Nope. But some trips he said he had to go out of town for apparently he would would spend the weekend with the whore mistress. Surprise!!!! She moved a mile away from our family home. So he would call and say, “Plane just landed! Will call you when I am settled in the hotel. I have to meet some clients tonight. I love you so much and miss you. Give (our daughter) kisses and hugs for me. Can’t wait to be home in a couple days.” When I found out the truth in all this shit, I hit the fucking roof!!!!!!! That fucker would drive a mile down the road, park his car in her garage and have a fuck fest with that partner poaching whore!!!!!!!!!!!! And then come back home and be like, “I am so glad to be home!! I am spent.” What a user. Abuser.
    I trusted him completely. Thought he worked so hard to provide for our family. I never questioned he was a cheater. I really thought he was working hard to provide for our family and I admired and appreciated him for it. No. That slimeball made excellent money and hoarded it for himself. And his wants.
    Hi ho indeed!!
    Thanks for addressing this issue regardig cheating CL.

    • Geez Dawn, not to stoop too low, but it’s these times you wish your shit-bag cheater fell ill, heart attack, whatever that rendered them unconscious, and skank-O-whore was left with what to do???

      OK, lets say she does call 911, an ambulance picks him up at whores house, he’s admitted and they ask… “So Mrs. Dawn, can you please sign these papers before we operate? Or, they find his work emergency contact number for next of kin, and call you… Now THAT’S my kind of D-Day!

      Reminds me of that POS football coach from somewhere down south, who had an “accident” while hauling around some young skank on a motorcycle and was BUSTED!… OOOOP’S, I can explain honey.

      FWIW, my STBX was one of the ran late business dinner/better stay over in the city the night before the event to miss the traffic type cheater… And to be even more twisted, I booked the stays as a helpful, doting, loving husband totally blindsided.

      • I not only booked STBX’s final business trip (dday hit right before it) but I actually PACKED HIS SUITCASE. He was texting current OW while I packed his suitcase. Can you fucking believe that shit?

      • What a DDay that would have been indeed, Jay!!!
        Ugh!! She actually let you book her hotel stays and cheat while on these out of town trips? Talk about no no soul. No heart.

        • Ah-yep… Stood right over my shoulder, knowing full well co-cheater scum would be at the following days event (marathon), her huge multinational corporation heavily sponsored. Only way I found this out was when the other BS confronted her/me AT OUR HOME, and very angrily read STBX the riot act. I truly think had I not been there to calm the situation, my STBX would have suffered physical violence from a very pissed off BS seemingly hell bent on it.

          Oh yeah, it gets better. She would even show me and daughter her picture in the corp newspaper for her division, for some kibble enriching some-such thing she was acknowledged for, and co-cheater scum was on the same page!!! Pretty twisted huh?

          • Jay, don’t tell me your wife was a marathoner as well. Mine never involved the boys and I because I’m sure he was there at every event. Traveled to New York for the marathon there with eight others but kept him undercover. So fucked up behaviour. So selfish.

            • Hey mate, no, she was not a marathoner, just a garden variety kibble whore, “volunteering” for any work related function/event to keep her well fed with Lookeeme kibbles and hook-ups.

              Old faithful, truly loving steady Eddie’s like us get tossed away like garbage once we are dry; they need super charged, super shiny kibble shovelers. Oh how believe they will find out all that glitters, does not shovel forever, and hey, all it cost you was their dignity, reputation, and soul.

              • Dang, my typing sucks today… Should read:

                “Oh how I believe they will find out all that glitters, does not shovel forever, and hey, all it cost them was their dignity, reputation, and soul.”

            • Baci, whenever you refer to “chainsaw man” in your posts, I always have a laugh because I imagine The character, Jason from “Friday the 13th” movies with his lame ass hockey mask and powering up his chainsaw terrorizing people. I think Chainsaw Man by the way is a real tool. So is the marathon, cheater wife. Let them terrorize each other. They deserve each other. Two selfish turds.

              • Not to be cruel Baci, but every time I say the name to myself of a certain orange colored, Swedish based power tool/lawn equipment maker, I see and hear the “Swedish Chef” muppet, saying it in all his Swedish glory???

                There it is, maybe you can simply call this asshole “muppet”… Sure ain’t the nicest thing to call your investment clients, or this douche bag!

              • Hey Rose. Spot on. You go to top of the class! He’s a muppet alright. 13 years older than the ex. A muppet on Viagra! Bet you Swedish company boards don’t like their CEOs breaking employment contracts having sexual relationships with suppliers and upgrading them to business class using company air points. Tad embarrassing. He hates my guts so I’m being effective. Never had my hand up a muppets arse so watch this space.

              • Yes Baci, I have to laugh too whenever you reference ‘chainsaw’ man. I sort of get this ‘goofy’ looking image of a CEO in a orange safety vest, hard hat walking around like a VIP thinking he’s all that and carry’s a chainsaw in hand. CL could do some more artwork and caricatures of these douchebags, Heck, she could start a animated cartoon- it would be something like Southpark- all of our STBX’s would be skewered for all to laugh at!

              • Funny thing is he is the most unfit ‘tool’ you will see where as I do boot camp. Don’t run much but he’s just ugly old CEO. ( not that all CEO are ugly and unfit). I expected to be replaced by lance armstrong type.
                I had a dream about CSM and a chainsaw but woke before it finished. It was profound though.

          • I am speechless, Jay, I am so disgusted. PS I would have let the other BS throw a left hook to your cheater wife’s face. She deserved it!!!
            How long ago was your DDay?

            • It came damn close to lefts, rights, and gut punches… My wife stood there so meekly, staring at her shoes, and could barley whisper… Not such a screaming bad ass like she is with me, and as I have read, a LOT of cheaters are cockroach when the lights come on, chickenshit, candy ass cowards!

              My D-Day was May, 2012

              • Yucky cockroaches!!! Yes ! Lights on! Run and hide you nasty little insects. Be prepared to get stomped! Lol!

              • I think it would have been GREAT for your STBXW to have to walk around with a shiner for a few weeks for all the world to see. . . . Seriously, if somebody wanted to beat the sh*t out of my STBXH I think I only would have been concerned if they had a gun- but otherwise I wouldn’t have intervined!

              • Soon as you catch them they turn into the most remorseful creatures you will see but bro expose them and they turn into two headed monsters. Trust me its not fun to watch. Might make good reality tv though

  • This post has to be about my STBX Mr. Cheaterpants Lawyer…Threatened me last night with scorched earth policy in our divorce… Plenty of time and money for his whoring and narcissism. He wants my help with our teenage girls making up with him. He is a selfish bastard just like he’s been for ever. When you don’t hide or lie about shit you don’t have shit to lie about or hide. Why can’t he just keep his side dish whore and and everybody ignore it!

    • I’m in same boat. Ex is desperately trying to get both sons to meet chainsaw man but they refuse. She will force it and I’m telling you it will backfire big time and she will never recover it.
      Deb deb just let your girls make their own judgment. Don’t make it worse but it’s his problem. He made the choice to cheat. He owns the consequences.

      • Unfortunately, as a female lawyer I do have to say that I come across other lawyers who are VERY much the NPD types- not all of them- as CL found a good one to marry BUT I would caution any nice woman to be careful and look for NPD red flags if one should ever want to get to know you, etc. etc. Many of them give the impression that they are all that, successful, blah. . . blah. . . blah. . . BUT behind the BMW or Mercedes are frequent problems: spending problems, entitlement issues etc.- I’d check their credit rating and dig for civil/legal claims before I would date one- seriously!

        • Hope49

          There is a book titled “the millionaire next door” and they talk about how high income people who are showy typically have a lot less disposable income or saving than people with lower income jobs.

          My ex was also annoyingly showy about stupid stuff, IMO, and he had problems with spending and saving and planning.

          • STBX was a big spender. Made a lot of money but was always running short. He always paid for everyone at dinner, would splash out on expensive items without a thought, just threw money around and would get VERY pissed if I called him on it.

    • Hope 49, I would never want them hurt physically.
      They’re not worth it. Exposure will last forever. They can’t wipe the slate clean. Everywhere they go they will b judged.
      Two hours after I received the truth I went over to chainsaw mans apartment while ex was upstairs with him explaining that his wife told me everything.
      I rang the door bell and he thought I was the pizza man. I purposely stood back and told him very coldly but quietly ( think Clint Eastwood ) Do you know I am. Yes was is reply. Do you think the three of us should have a talk and he said no. I stood and looked into his eyes for at least 10 seconds. He shit himself. I then told h I’m coming after him and turned on my heal.
      He will suffer for a long time.

      • Believe me as a criminal lawyer I’m smart enough not to want to hurt a cheater pants husband or OW and would never advise a hurt spouse to do so. However, if some other pissed off and hurt spouse wanted to smack my cheater pants STBXH I’d let them- I’d just STEP out of the way! (There are no affirmative duties to intervene under the law here in the U.S.)

        So, I don’t know if you posted this or not but what is the situation with Chainsaw man’s wife in New Zealand? Did she or is she divorcing him?

        • Just to give you a heads up what is happening down here.
          I just got convicted for breaking an AVO for sending a text message ‘you selfish bitch’ and a few emails relating to not so ending enough time with the kids. It was that text message and another calling her a cruel animal( both of which I can prove.). The judge considered it offensive and since I am university educated I should know better. There was a full review of avo and if you break one here you get a criminal record. Break it twice and you go straight to jail. The jails are full of spouses who sent offensive text messages. I fully support spouse protection from violence but its got ridiculous.
          CSM wife is an amazing woman. They finally divorced late last year. It takes years here and I know a few who have been separated for years but never filed. You can do property settlement without divorcing.
          CSM has been such a good ex husband. He sends monthly payments don’t you know from his $200,000 + salary a year back to NZ every month. He’s the best remote parent I know.
          Sadly his youngest daughter has a substance abuse issue but good old mum is sorting it out. She caught him apparently in two affairs and tossed him out. He’s one fucked up individual.
          You see New Zealand fits into Orange County. It’s not big and there are double the sheep to people.
          When a kiwi( that’s what New Zealanders are called) is promoted to a job in Australia it goes to the head a bit. All of a sudden the market you control is 5 times bigger.
          He’s a narcissist and I’ve said it before his funeral will be full of chainsaw and ride on lawn mower dealers with a Swedish theme. Mine will be full of the boys mates and their parents. I lost my best friend last year, and another funeral was for one of the boys friends was drowned. Both funerals were full of tales about back yards, kids, sport fun. CSM doesn’t have that special memory. He walked away from that.
          His funeral will be market penetration and all that shit.

          • Baci, you take care! I don’t want you having to spend ANY time in jail or spend a dime on fines regarding your STBXW- she is NOT worth it at all! I want you to succeed raising your boys, taking care of yourself, and not having to think about STBXW. STBXW and Chainsaw Man’s relationship is likely going to implode and it will be all over – it is just a matter of time.

            Fast forward years ahead to when your boys are grown- I can see your future. Your boys will be spending Christmas and holidays with you. You’ll have a great relationship with them and enjoying your grandchildren. Not so for your STBXW! She will be looking back at her life and chainsaw man with a lot of regret and she’ll will be old and very, very LONELY.

            • Yes Hope49! Chumps, we need to really think about where we will be in 1, 5, 10 years from now. We will be happy again. We will become indifferent to the cheater. We are fighters. We are survivors. We are strong and we will make it through. Our families, our kids will thank us one day. I think all you are amazing people. We will all find our way to the good life. Stay positive Chumps and take it one day at a time.

          • What the heck is an AVO??? Wait, hold up!!!!! You are saying that your spouse can step out on you and put your health at risk, emotionally abuse you to continue the affair, and there are no legal consequences? And yet, after she is caught (remorseful my ass), and exposed (becomes psychotic two headed monster), leaving you to deal with the PTSD and you call her a selfish bitch (she is) in a text/email and YOU can be put in jail for that?????? Who made that a law in Australia? A cheater????? That is the lamest and most ridiculous thing I have ever heard Baci! Terrible!!!!!!

            • The avo is apprehended violence order which covers everything including anything that is deemed offensive or intimidating. It has to be worth something to stop the abuse of mainly women in domestic violence. The consequence if that is that it catches out people like me.
              I have never in my life been before the court, no drink driving, no unpaid fines etc.
              Australia and NZ are no fault countries.
              I’m just at the initial stage of property settlement so will keep you posted. I have the boys 75% of the time which we agreed on and then the government accepts that. If we can’t agree then we go before a judge and the children are asked if over 13 and the judge will act in the kids best interests.
              The property settlement is influenced by the care of children and responsibility of that.
              For me personally I will go with what the boys want. My ex wants the freedom to be with CSM. It’s strange that a mother wants to spend less time with her children but read narcissist. If she doesn’t spend quality time with CSM he will fuck off. Also here caring for a child is based on nights, not days. My youngest son stays with mum on Tuesdays and Wednesdays and usually one night over the weekend. He usually spends a whole day over the weekend. The oldest stays on Monday and Tuesday night 7.00pm until 7.30am. Never goes any other time. He is upset about the whole deal but both ex and I go with what they want to do. They didn’t invite this shirt sandwich through the door.
              They always have mates over here and Friday Saturday night can have up to 8 staying. That’s how we have always had it and I don’t understand why ex kisses all that goodbye. Read narcissist.
              I understand it though from her view. I just don’t agree with it.
              I somehow have to hold on to the house so see how we go in the next few months.
              Ex has been very good re money and boys. Through her choices she has suffered immensely with her relationship woth the boys but they have been simply outstanding. They don’t agree with what she did but they still love her. The issue now is she is over been in limbo and want them to meet CSM. You need to be very careful introducing new partners but particularly cheating arseholes are a whole new ball game to older kids.
              She is getting very frustrated. Our family doctor couldn’t do it and I know of two ther people where the AP couldn’t connect with the children. All those people then chose new partners and everyone get on like a house in fire.
              The boys have said they don’t want to meet someone newon my side as well so I fully respect t heir wishes.
              It all results in the family dynamic being changed forever which is incredibly sad. It’s the not what the ex did but how she went about it that has caused so much carnage. It’s nothing compared to what some of thevotherschere have suffered. Some of the stories here just show how graceful and strong some of you are. Don’t know if I could show so much restraint.

              • Baci, the really sad thing about your STBXW is that she can’t see that she traded her boys for Chainsaw man. Chainsaw man LEFT his girls in New Zealand. He is NOT family man material at all. He’s not going to want to shuttle your boys to and from soccer practice- no sir! He’s going to want to be spending money, eating out, doing whatever HE wants to do.

                Your boys have every reason to not want to meet with him. They’ve had their mother toss you and them aside for fuckbuddy time.

                My two cents. Fight for keeping the house and respect the boys wishes that you not bring another woman into the home. I don’t know how old they are- if they’re young you’ll have a way to go. I’ve got 4.5 years till both of my children are out of the home and I’m just focusing on keeping them and myself moving towards the future. I don’t want them to have to compete with some new man in my life at all nor for them to feel in the next 4.5 years that they are second fiddle in any way.

                In the interim, take good care of your health, make healthy friendships, and basically keep doing what you are doing. We should have a special CL alumni club- in 5 years we can meet and report on our lives in the land of ‘Meh’ and happiness!

  • From Chumplady’s article [“He suffered so, and I just failed to sympathize sufficiently with How Much Pressure He Was Under. Of course, I couldn’t. I was a lesser being. Not a lawyer like him. But a self-employed “hippy chick” (who was doing contract work for a software company when DDay hit, 6 months after our marriage, after I financed his career move to another state, relocated my child, single handedly unpacked our house, landscaped a yard, oversaw remodeling, and entertained his family during a weeklong visit. Hey, it wasn’t a completely unproductive six months).”]


    I think there is a percentage of men who just refuse to realize that taking care of a home and children is a tremendous amount of work.

    think the cheating men are more likely to fall into this category as are cheating women likely to be women who say the man doesn’t work hard enough no matter what he does.

    To that point, a friend’s wife just died. She was only 43 and he was a doctor. He was not a cheater but he never seemed to appreciate all the work his wife did, when she was alive. He often, to my mind, belittled her.

    After she died suddenly, he mentioned to me how surprised he was by how much work his wife did at home. He remarked that it would cost him a small fortune to hire someone to do all the work she did.

    For example in the area he lived, cleaning a 4000 square foot home costs about $500 to $600 for maid service for one cleaning and that does not include loading the dishwasher or cleaning the cabinets or the windows. Those are billed extra.

    Also laundry was not included. Typically a maid service charges a $125 extra to wash and fold just one load of laundry.

    He went on and on about how the house got so messy so quickly, the food shopping, gift shopping, clothing shopping, returning items, needed to be done and how time consuming sorting and paying the house related or school related bills were.

    Also now he had to cook, or spend a small fortune eating dinners out each night.

    He said when she was alive, he didn’t realize the house was tidy when he came home because she tidied it, or the painting got done because she did it or hired someone to do it. The same with house maintenance. He didn’t realize how time consuming contacting, meeting with and hiring a plumber to fix the clogged toilet in a timely manner was.

    Also, he lamented on how the bills were piling up cause he was too tired to sort through them and pay them after work

    I thought it was sad that this man only seemed to appreciate his wife’s work now that she was dead.

    When his wife was spending time sorting and paying the numerous bills, it was not work, now that she is dead and he has to do it, it is drudge work that he dreads.

    Now he realizes that after shopping, cleaning on a daily basis to keep the house tidy and cooking dinner must have been exhausting and then on top of that to put on her bookkeeper hat to pay the bills. ……Phew.

    When she was alive he seemed very dismissive of her and the fact that she was a stay at home wife with grown kids in college.

    He even once joked at a dinner that he wanted to be a stay at home dad playing tennis all day and lolling around the house. He was serious at the time too.

    • Sara,

      This guy sounds like my STBX. And annoyingly he will be able to afford the help that he needs (assuming he hasn’t already found a free kibble dispenser to have around the house), whereas I will not.

      I got a small amount of appreciation for being a good mom, but nothing for anything else I did. Literally the only chore he did with regularity was mow the lawn (and we had to buy him a ride on so he would stop ridiculously complaining about that). And I guess take out the trash. However, it’s because I was already doing pretty much everything that I don’t really feel like life is too crazy hard to keep up with without him.

      • Erica:

        I agree with life is not crazy hard on your own cause you were already doing everything.

        I feel the same. I also took out the trash. Isn’t that a man’s job typically? My ex did not do mowing we had to pay someone.

    • Wow Sara8, that really hits home with me.

      My aunt and uncle were both Ph.D chemists, traveled the world doing research, wrote books, were professors, and developed life saving drugs at pharmaceutical companies. When my uncle took a high profile job with a particular pharmaceutical company to head the research division, my aunt followed, and basically retired from employment as lead analytical chemist, but NOT from lead household duties doer she had always been, and done solo on top of work.

      She worked like a slave to do all the cleaning, office work for my uncle, shopping, travel arrangements, you name it. When she passed, my uncle was completely unprepared for how hard keeping up a home, and helping your spouse succeed was. I would go over to help him, and where the kitchen was once wiped down with bleach EVERYDAY, floors mopped, and you could have literally gladly eaten off the toilet seat while my beloved aunt was alive, was now a disaster. Disgusting bathrooms, filthy carpets, overflowing garbage, dirty grimy floors, dirty dishes, and he asked me to look at the dryer, because it was taking HOURS to dry clothes… You guessed it, he had no idea what a lint trap was, and had done countless loads without a change… I didn’t know lint *could* be a substitute for space shuttle tiles.

      Kinda the same thing for me when I was a SAHD: think accountant, financial adviser, chief investment officer, tax adviser, stock trader, personal assistant, car repair/service mechanic, lawn care and gardener, dishwasher, clothes washer, 100% shopper and high end complex meal cook, babysitter, maid… What that got me was her nearly screaming after being served D-papers: “Lazy sponging bum” “out to screw the bitch”. Geez, I can still recall waiting up til around midnight for one of her “late” business dinners *cough* hook-ups, and clearing our 165′ steep driveway twice of snow by hand (cuz dinner was running late), so she could get up it. Yeah, just like always, it was always cleared, and I’m a fucking lazy bum who *maybe* spent $1000-$1500/yr on myself, and I doubt that much as hard as that may be to believe.

      Ungrateful bastards/bitches, and so glad we made you cheating so care free, and easy!

      • Ugh. Jay, I am stunned by how selfish and manipulative these cheating spouses are. Unbelievable how they, take, take, take.. Use and abuse.
        You sound like a gem of a guy. Glad to hear you ditched the cheater, user broad wife. Hope you find a woman that appreciates who you are and all the gifts you contribute in your future relationship.

        • Thank you Rose, that was very kind. Your Gem analogy made me laugh; first thing I though was maybe semi-precious, definitely far from flawless with plenty of inclusions, a little sparkle and fire here and there, definitely multi faceted, but far from brilliant cut (absolutely NOT pear shaped) 🙂

          Take care, and i wish you the best!

  • A variant on this is the stay at home mom, who needs a “break” all the time.
    I would wonder why I had to watch the kids at night, after working all day, so she could get a break. I’m not talking about an occassional break, but breaks that far exceeded any that I got.
    I mean it was not like I was off just goofing off all day. Think about . Each spouse devouts 10 hours a day to his or her job. Then, one gets a “break” while the other takes over the job of the breakee. It was not as if one job was harder than the other.
    My XW would be out many nights a week taking breaks. She used these for her affairs.

    • Good points, Arnold.

      We couldn’t have children, but I often took care of nieces and nephews while the parents were ill or away on business.

      It was exhausting to say the least, and I can see asking the spouse to take care of the kids for an hour or so while the stay at home parent takes a hot bath or does something without the kids and then splitting the rest of the chores.

      For example one parent baths and takes care of one child, while the other parent takes care of another.

      After work, IMO, the chores should be split because both spouses are tired. The spouse that works away from home is tired and the houseparent is just as tired.

    • Arnold – I think the SAHM just needs a “break” because literally their job is the same all day and all night. Children also can be much more demanding and unappreciative, etc. than adults. Your brain just wants some grown-up/quiet time. However, just your SO coming home and helping and carrying on some bit of adult conversation while the kids are around is something of a break. I think both spouses should get the occasional break, but clearly your W was taking it to a complete egotistical, kibble-eating extreme.

      These people just get away with this shit because they make us feel all guilty asking for ANYTHING. They also demand these things that we kinda think are unreasonable, but then we think we must just be mean for not wanting to give them everything they want. And we do want them to be happy so we give as much as we can, but we still feel shitty because it’s never enough for them.

  • “Funny thing about cheaters and work ethics — their entitlement often slops over into their working life. No surprise that narcissists tend to make poor employees — they just don’t think the rules apply to them. And work tends to have a lot of rules. It’s not uncommon that these are the people who can’t advance in their jobs, whose contracts don’t get renewed, who have a lot of bosses who don’t like them, and they have a lot of sad stories about that.”

    Holy cow. Lightbulb moment for me, CL. That’s STBX, to a tee. He’s a terrible employee/co-worker. All he ever did was complain about how stupid his boss was. When he finally got the green light to telecommute, his work ethic was shoddy, at best. There were weeks where he would work about 20 hours a week (in a 40 hour per week job). Yet, he still thought that he had a Bad Life– everything was TOO stressful. Wifey didn’t give him enough to help him through all of the demands he had to deal with, thus, he had to find someone who would understand how hard his life was (oh, and provide lots of sympathy sex).

    The more distance I get from him, the more entitled and spoiled he seems every day. Thanks for giving me another push toward “meh,” CL.

  • It is good to read all the little tricks the cheaters use to cheat.

    The excuse that they “gotta work late Christmas eve” Geesh, that’s gonna’ be a major red flag if I ever get involved in an exclusive dating relationship or remarry.

    No one unless they are a cop or a fireman or emergency room doctor, or some other type of emergency worker needs to work late on Christmas eve.

    BTW, cops and fireman and emergency room doctors are known for being vulnerable to affairs due to their hours and the wife’s inability to track them at work.

    So I am going to be very wary of dating anyone in those professions or any profession that involves out of town travel.

    Also, I am going to make surprise lunch trips to the office. No warning call. I am just gonna’ show up randomly but often enough to keep them on edge if they are thinking of cheating.

    The same if they claim to be working late. I will just stop by unplanned every now and then, and say let’s go out for coffee and later I will sit here and read until you finish your work.

    I know I wouldn’t object to that. I would think it was thoughtful and kind.

    If they do object they are likely planning on cheating and don’t like being checked up on.

    Also, I recognize the calling to see where the spouse is before meeting the affair partner.

    My ex did that and I too thought he was doing it because he cared about me.

    Yes, it’s a shock when you learn they were really with a whore.

    But the bigger shock to me was that I was so blind and ignorant to what was going on right under my nose.

    I don’t feel bad for being too trusting, but I realize that it is okay to be a little suspicious of your spouse.

    But wait a minute and nevermind………I think I am going to remain single. 😉

    • yeah, Sara, this is a toughie… and I will be suspicious of doctors and also people that travel a lot. In fact, I’m not sure I could ever seriously date someone that travels a ton for work.

      I had this whole thing written on how we need to somehow just learn to trust them, but the more I thought about it, the less sure I was that I could do it.

      I know I will be more open about communication and more specific about telling them what boundaries I expect them not to cross. I know new, better traits I am seeking in a potential partner and how to recognize behavior of a cake-eater. But still, as I thought about it, I was still kinda paranoid. Because you know what? My husband was a cake-eater. He’s a selfish prick. But I still don’t think he would have initiated the affair. If there is one thing I do blame the OW for it is that. And so, I don’t trust the women! Stupid younger women throwing themselves at your SO. The people out there that don’t give a shit about you and just want their cake! I know you should be able to trust your spouse, but I do understand how it would be more difficult when there could be women throwing themselves at you. Am I just underestimating a mans ability to think with his brain? But especially since any future relationship won’t have the ties of children together, history, etc. to try to keep them from fucking around. Ugh.

      • Sara8,
        OW the wasband is involved with is 15 years his senior. It isn’t always younger women desperate enough and uncaring enough to go after a married man with kids.
        Women can throw themselves at men all they want. Men can can try to seduce women all they want, but it is up to the married person, though tempted, to say NO!!!!! Boundaries. Respect, love, loyalty, and be protective of one’s partner/spouse/family. It is human nature to be tempted. But we all have the ability to resist temptation. But cheaters, whether they have kids or not with spouse/partner are self-centered and put the priority not on spouse/partner/family/loved ones well-beings, but on their selfish wants and desires. The OP is just another means to feed those selfish wants and desires.

      • Erica:

        It is not your imagination that younger women are throwing themselves at older men. They are very interested in affairs.

        I have read this in articles written by psychologists and marriage counselor as well as read posts in which OWs talk about going after mid life crisis men because they have more money to spend on the OW and usually more time on their hands and are bored with married sex.

        It is not your imagination that affairs are on the upswing. You might want to google an article “women are the new men” They talk about how more women in the 20s to late 30s are actually looking for affairs.

        My ex’s OW also stalked him, contacted him first, gave the first kiss and initiated sex.

        I read all the emails that were sent to me anonymously. They mentioned all of this showing she was really really sexually aggressive, or to put it less politely, horny.

        The emails also showed didn’t have sex with her husband. She was bored with him. She like to be entertained, he ignored here, yadda yadda.

        Still I have been hit on strongly by men and I just said “no”. And, doesn’t everyone get a little bored with sex in a marriage, it takes an emotional investment to keep things fresh.

        And, oh, wasn’t my cheating ex ignoring me to date while married?

        I think a guy with integrity would do the same as I did when hit on….. just say “no” and would realize that all long term marriages move into a companionate phase.

        My ex always laughed at older men with younger women. He would say “there’s no fool like an old fool” yet he became one. It was pitiable the way he was jumping through hoops for this women. She wasn’t even that attractive. She was okay, average, not even average actually just packaged well all paid for by her husband.

        That’s why the old adage the giving someone space strengthens a marriage may have changed, there are far too many sexually aggressive women out there who do not honor their marriage vows.

        It’s almost like a game if you read the OW boards, and the younger women often don’t want to leave their spouse they just want some older guy to spend money on them and pay attention to them.

        • Sara8, I agree with you regarding younger women gold diggers chasing older men w money. What about older women pursuing younger married men? Cougars. These bitches look for that trophy young guy to lay. Perhaps gives them the empty satisfaction of feeling attractive because they laid a younger, attractive, committed man. Hurl.

            • Ugh. She traded down in every way then, Arnold. The plaything boy toy will get old. And guess what? You can’t recapture youth through screwing some young thing. She left a real man behind-a family man with loyalty, integrity, respect, etc. She is a selfish fool.

          • Rose:

            I agree. Cougars are on the rise.

            Cheating in general is on the rise with more woman than ever cheating even women over 60 and you are right, they typically want a young stud to feed their lust.

        • “I think a guy with integrity would do the same as I did when hit on….. just say “no” and would realize that all long term marriages move into a companionate phase.”

          Well thought out and said Sara8. My STBX told me on the phone post D-Day she “missed feeling butterflies”… No amount of logic, reason, or science could demonstrate to her that after 23 y/o marriage, stable, nurturing, by your side forever LOVE is what one truly relishes. Another thing post D-day that was truly an eye opener was when she told me “Girls have flirted with you, and you never even noticed”… Umm, I guess so, and I would think “flirting blindness” a good trait for a spouse, and wonder if it was her simply projecting?

          Even when very attractive ladies were present interacting with me, i.e. Xmas parties, drinking, and acting less than ladylike; I can truly say the idea of trying to “bang one”, never entered my mind… I guess I was just so in love with my wife, who was and remains very attractive physically, and very kind at the time. Not to mention I had a daughter that I would have to look in the eyes til the day I died.

          Now she throws out for whatever reason; she was just a rebound relationship, we maybe got married too quickly, I know you think the sex was not so great with me, I always felt inferior to you and your family,… No, in a nutshell it was your year long+ affair that was the problem.

          • Jay,

            “Umm, I guess so, and I would think “flirting blindness” a good trait for a spouse”

            That’s what I always believed all loving marriages had. It is what I had as well, though in my head, I called it my “marriage blinders”. It wasn’t something I had to train myself for, or consciously think about – it was just my way of being. I am married and unavailable, thus I am not out perusing the goods, per say. I have eyes for my husband.

            One night not too long after D-day, ex confessed that while we would be out shopping walking around hand in hand, he would be checking out all the women we crossed paths with, and imagining performing specific sex acts with them in his head. I was aghast, and told him he was a pervert. He, of course, insisted it was what all men did.

            That was the real watershed moment for me, when I knew I would never go back to him.

            • I feel exactly the same way… it literally never entered my head to cross boundaries. Like, I’m married, therefore I just didn’t do it. And it was all subconsciously. I had a male coworker that I was kinda close with a few years back, we sat near each other and would talk and joke a lot during the day. It’s possible that outsiders could have thought we were flirting, I don’t know. But I know he and I knew the situation (at least I’m 99.9% sure he knew the situation). We talked about work, sports, articles we read, movies. Almost nothing personal at all, and definitely nothing about our significant others or relationships. Literally zero boundaries were crossed. I never felt uncomfortable. And you know what, that is how I would feel if someone I was around started crossing the line… unlike my STBX who I guess just got his ego kibble fix from it. And probably he doesn’t even recognize that there are lines you don’t cross when you’re married. Well, clearly that is the case, or he wouldn’t have fucked someone else.

              In fact, I got so used to these marriage boundaries that now that I’m having more trouble adjusting to NOT feeling that way. To knowing that I am single and therefore maybe that guy is interested, or maybe I could be interested in them and we actually COULD do something about that. I am getting much better, but I remember being paranoid the first time I even went to pick up dinner without my ring on or kids with me (man repellent). I think I thought guys were just going to jump out of the bushes and throw themselves at me. Alas, it did not happen.

          • Jay I’m with you. I am soooo proud of my behaviour while married. I simply had too much respect and love for my wife. She was my best friend. I actually was very careful with friendships with woman. My phone was always always out in the open. There was nothing that I needed to hide.
            However now I realise the importance if having female friends. It’s got me though this. Absolutely non sexual these relationships are very treasured now.
            My ex had many male ( older 10-15 years older) friendships which I actually encouraged. But I never ever met CSM.
            And she had the audacity to call me controlling.
            Amazing how our stories can be so similar

          • Oh my god….I got the butterfly speech as well. He needed to feel butterflies and excitement and a clean slate, etc. I was just like ‘dude, are you 12? Do you really expect your heart to flip when you see me for the ten millionth time? ‘Cause mine sure doesn’t, but it does hum with satisfaction at the love we share and the world we built’ Which was all bullshit, obviously, since he was a serial cheater.

            But butterflies. Give me a fucking break.

            • well, it makes sense, right? They are immature in all things…

              And probably he wants you to think he has “feelings”… it’s not just about sex!

              • Yup, got the ‘there are feelings’ speech as well. I think he’s a bit bored already but whatever. He chose an infant, he gets an infant.

            • Oh yes, the “butterflies”… I got that one too. Well, I sure hope his unemployed, alcoholic, revoked license, soon to be in jail ass is enjoying all those butterflies now… Clearly butterflies make everything better!

          • Jay:

            Your wife is a classically rewriting the marital history to justify cheating in what sounds like a happy marriage until your wife decided to screw the OM.

            • I agree, try telling her that!

              I never wish to portray a mask of marital perfection, but I can’t know what is bothering you if you don’t CLEARLY say it. many times I would interpret things wrong, and she would say “this is why I never say anything.”

              This got me more pent up resentment, anger, and hurt feelings where there were never given. My wife’s feelings on something, become her reality, in which I am held, and there is no way to “win” in this situation. Something like:

              “I know I’m bothering you, sorry.” “I already know you hate this”… How the hell can you counter something a person holds as fact, based on emotion?

    • What makes you think all firmen etc are men. Wouldn’t the same apply to male spouses of female docs, cops etc? Gender police, on patrol here.
      I should follow my own rules, though. I previously posted about stay at home moms. Should have included stay at home dads.

      • yeah, it’s hard to be gender neutral all the time because while many things are universal, I think there are definitely going to be some differences in the details and some specific issues depending on gender. I am glad there both sexes are represented here, it’s nice to hear how non-cheating men behave and view marriage, family, etc.

        • another Erica, I have really appreciated hearing what the men hear have to say about being cheated on. I have often thought of myself as ‘weak’ just because I have felt so rattled and unsettled following the discovery of my husband’s affair and -that was 16 years ago. Here I am years later divorcing after having tried to spackle etc. If anything, this board has affirmed for me how shattering it is to be married to someone, exchange vows, etc. and then see them betray you.

          Hearing about all of these stories and emotions from Arnold, Baci, Jay etc., is very affirming. It let’s us chumps know that there ARE decent people in this world trying to raise families, get through life, and be good individuals and citizens. There are GIVERS among the TAKERS. I look forward to when the STBXH will be the XH and I can move on as a healed woman ready to find love, joy and a future with another decent man and build a future.

          • Hope49,
            You are right about how shattering the betrayal is; looking back now, it would have been far less painful had she died. People (who never experienced cheating) think I’m crazy when I say that, but infidelity has a depth and breadth of pain that I have never even come close to experiencing, EVER.

            You hear from BS who have also seen terrible combat deaths of buddies, violent rape victims, lost young children, survived near death violent assaults, and they still say discovery of a cheating spouse hurt and pain is worse.

            Had my wife died, my daughter and I could have gleaned, and gathered strength knowing she loved us til the very moment of passing. We would have fought hard, and cherished her memory in doing so to live our lives to honor her and her memory. Her day of passing would have been a solemn, yet reflective time that reaffirmed just how much we miss, and love her. Our families would still be families together, and her family would have continued to treat me as good as kin, and helped me get through it with love.

            Now, it’s like she is dead, there is no fight to carry on the unfinished work, the dreams are dead, my faith in people is shot, the beautiful, kind women I knew is walking dead, corrupted by what she once dismissed and despised, my daughter has suffered more than any human should by STBX insanely selfish post D-Day behavior, another family was caused pain by her actions, and her memory is tarnished forever, and D-Day is a day of hurt and sadness.

            I truly wish you all the best in your healing Hope49, and a new life full of joy, hope and a kind, strong, caring man that you deserve for the rest of your life.

            • I agree Jay. Learning your spouse is a cheater is worse than if they physically died.

              When finding out they cheated, the marriage dies and he man you though you knew dies, but they are still alive physically to torment you with their new self.

              • Glad you agree; I never could have imagined how painful it could be, NEVER! I agree also that post D-Day treatment is bad enough with any cheater; my turbo charged one of hate makes it unreal, and truly begs the question of her sanity.

  • Oh. Oh. Oh.
    Been feeling all mopy and sad and lonely this AM after 48HRS NC.
    Just read this post.
    Thank you, Going to be sick (again) now..but strangely enough I do feel better, sorta.
    You hit the nail on the head again CL…..

    • Dear Toni – it is so difficult – I feel for you!! Please try and stay with it…. the ONLY way out is thru and as a friend said to me, its gonna be painful…. at least this way YOU get to CHOOSE your pain. Not dance along to someone else’s tune. It’s a rude awakening when someone you trusted and loved has made all paths out painful – try and stay with the path that actually leads out. I’m so sorry Toni, God, I know how difficult this is. You can do this tho, you can!

  • Ah work ethic!
    All her cheating was done during the day. Massive cake eating.
    If I had kept a diary I could tell you the day it really began.
    She would arrive home with dinner normally on the table and download the days events. I was genuinely interested in her business and career.
    She simply stopped talking about chainsaw mans company and him. When I later asked how they were going she simply said they didn’t do much business with him. How fucking wrong that statement was. She was doing business but at his company apartment. Sure think his board would like to know all about that.
    The gut reaching thing is we love and support our exes so that they can advance in their careers. In my case I bought expensive watches that enhanced her dress. It’s all about presentation.
    I felt that I was part of her success like a happy home means that she can focus on her career just like many of you supported your spouses.
    It’s all about ego. I provided that support but now with the boys growing she probably felt entitled to trade up. A trade up affair.
    An analogy is moving up from a Mazda 6 to a BMW 5 series. Still gets you from a to b but good for the ego. Savvy?
    Work ethic is one thing and she has that in spades but what she has done is become the (trophy wife) to the big CEO and they are now the power couple if the area. Great stuff. Well done.
    However people don’t give a fuck. They see through that. She s prepared to walk from a loving family just so she can hang off his arm. It’s all about ego and entitlement. Just like the thrill of a new BMW is exciting to begin with it just becomes another car and soon wears off.
    We chumps allow this shit to happen but with the best intentions but its a fucked up world guys. Its short term gain for long term pain!
    Interesting Doccool has closed the forums. He has a conscious!
    You read that shit you realise how truly fucked up some people are. I’ve felt it and some of you have said that you feel you’re going insane. It’s nothing compared to them.
    At least I’m free now. No more servant role for me.

    • Baci:

      You mentioned that she used to talk about chainsaw man and then suddenly stopped.

      Apparently that’s a major clue of a workplace relationship. The wife or husband is talking about a coworker and then the coworker is never mentioned again. When they stop talking about the coworker that is when the affair started.

      Just a tidbit of info for you to tuck away for future reference.

      • WEridly, I look back and realise that when STBX was starting up a new affair he would casually mention the person, like he couldn’t help himself. He even told me about having a spontaneous dinner with a friend of mine that he had run into at an exhibition. That would be the night he fucked her.

    • “I felt that I was part of her success like a happy home means that she can focus on her career just like many of you supported your spouses.
      It’s all about ego. I provided that support but now with the boys growing she probably felt entitled to trade up. A trade up affair.”

      You know, perhaps the most unkind utterance my STBX said to me as post D-Day blameshifting, that HURT as bad as can be said:

      “Maybe I outgrew you”

      This from a person who grew up in abject poverty, witnessed knife fights, raging alcoholism, high culture was watching the moonshiner next door evade the police, and “good eats” to her was popcorn shrimp and water gravy. When I met her at university she was very attractive, very smart, but completely uncultured and naive. She had never flown on aircraft, never traveled aside from trips with dad in the semi, had no idea of fashion, how to speak in front of an audience, was critically shy etc. When we moved to Germany after graduation for me to serve an an Army Officer, she blossomed, and continued to do so for all the years ahead.

      My family who were all scientists, business types, engineers, and doctors, took her under their wing, loved her, helped her financially, and helped her out in a lot of many ways (first corporate job). I saw the great potential in her, and rather than have competing careers, I did the SAHD thing, and her career exploded unfettered. I guess now she is blind to all before her; now I’m the lazy bum who managed her 401k to over a 400% return, never allowed her feet to touch the ground with the daily mundane, traded stocks to where our daughter before D-day could write a check to any four year school she was accepted too, $$$$$ in the bank, zero debt… Oh yeah, I DID have “real” jobs too, but I guess since she made more, I was a looser.

      Even before D-day when she would pull out the nasty card, saying shit like “oh, so without you, or your family, I’d be nothing, like you handed it to me, and shaped me into someone maybe who I’m not”. She never will, or I think can understand that anything done was NOT done for accolades, atta boys, selfish satisfaction or quid pro quo; I took great joy in seeing her grow, develop, help her become fashionable, confident and sure, and it really hurt when she would make it out like I got off on helping her. I always hated how she had to throw the belief that I was selfish and wanting some kind of praise, when it truly was completely altruistic, as it is when two people care and love each other fully.

      “Outgrew me” huh; I’d say the only outgrowing was her ego, sense of entitlement, and lack of empathy… Definite reduction in moral character, honesty, and care for her family and others.

      • Jay.
        Just hold onto the gifts you gave her.
        Like you I am incredibly proud that the boys and I supported ex to get to the position she is in. She supported the boys in sport and she did many things for me.
        However they get to the point where they no longer value your input. They think that they are worth more and I’m not talking about money.
        The trade up affair is all about entitlement and reward. Thanks joy for everything but I don’t need you anymore. Same here, thanks Baci ( not my real name) but I’m now with mr CEO and we are the power couple. I still want you to be the main carer for the boys etc and I require access to them. Just carry on but I wish to travel, enjoy romantic dinners weekly and the day to day stuff is too much of a bother!
        Outgrow is the wrong terminology. They have changed and are not the women we loved and were our best friends. Now, they don’t deserve us.
        Time to find someone who does!

          • Thanks Arnold.
            Once again spot on.
            However she is realising a few flaws in him already. I’ll give it two years.
            The perception and the fantasy thoughts are not reality
            But when you only have one option……….

      • Jay:

        It is so sad the way stay at home spouses are devalued.

        No matter how much work they do, and how expensive that work would be to hire out, they still never get the credit they deserve.

        Now that there are more SAHDs who sacrifice their careers to put a spouses first, I think men are starting to realize what housewife’s put up with for years.

        • Agreed.

          Ironic, as she would tell her friends how well it worked for us, and her friends would go bonkers wishing they had the same situation. I hear you about hiring out costs, especially the big stuff… Price what Mr. SAHD’s repair and maintenance service saved, you know:

          All brake jobs
          Putting in clutches
          All oil changes and routine service
          Rebuilding engines for the work cars
          etc, etc…

          Not to mention she not once had to visit a service place, other than tire balances, I did the recalls so that she could stay focused at work, and not loose sick days. That’s just the vehicle side of things. It really hurt when she put me down, especially since it was a joint decision, and one at one time she seemed to love?

          • Dang, Jay! All brake jobs, putting in clutches, oil changes etc., etc. All that plus cooking too? Too bad I can’t be the judge on the bench examining your contributions to the marriage and evaluating everything. You are definately due some alimony.

  • My ex always seemed to have out of town/out of country customers that he had to entertain with dinner. Our home was close to the hotels where these customers stayed yet all these dinners seemed to be near his place of business 30 miles away. In hindsight I should have been more concerned yet my faith in him was too strong.

  • Didn’t Scott Peterson also have problems advancing in his career? Then after ditching his wife and kid start parting.

  • We all had so much trust and faith.
    That’s what makes it so easy for them. They don’t think they will get caught and there will be no consequences. If they knew they would get their balls cut off if they cheated, this site wouldn’t exist. There would be no cheating.
    They put in extra effort during the affair to ensure you don’t become suspicious so therefore you think you’re doing all the right things.
    I even received a letter from an anonymous writer stating my wife was taken her lover to New York- and I still believed her. What a bloody fool I was. It’s cake eating and we don’t see it.

  • LOL. There’s a bitter irony dripping off this post, mainly because the ex and I were BOTH unemployed at the time of his cheating/DDay.

    I was a between-jobs HR Consultant and he was an unemployed server. Guess he had TOO much time on his hands because I gave him all the space in the world.

    The most ironic part of reading this post and reflecting back on my trainwreck is during my Self-Blame Stage, I kept saying to myself: “If I ONLY worked harder at finding a job instead of sitting around collecting UC, then he wouldn’t have cheated on me!”

    Reading the post/comments, it doesn’t seem like employment status has ANYTHING to do with whether or not somebody’s going to go out and cheat. Speaking of which, while he WAS working, he hooked up with one of his fellow servers. The other guys + DDay happened during our mutual unemployment period.

    Speaking of work ethic, I distinctly remember getting up early and going to the library day after day, with the laptop in tow, to job-search (the Internet/cable was cut off). Meanwhile he slept til 3 PM and presumably spent his free time trolling gay hook-up apps. Such productive use of his copious free time!

    Summing up:

    Employed — He cheated.
    Unemployed — He cheated.

    • Yes, and the flip side of this Chris is that unemployed — you had a work ethic. And employed — you had a work ethic.

      Cheaters are entitled creatures, as you point out, employed or unemployed.

  • I really want to make a bumper sticker of that illustration and put it on the back of his truck. I had already been thinking 1800 CRACKHO and my daughters like “CAPT SAVAHO” but that illustration, well it really takes the cake, pun intended. Now off to cry again…

    • Toni… keep crying and then keep coming right back to CL to get affirmation that it will get better and that you are so much better off without him!!!!

  • In the case of my STBX, it was easy for him to clock hours on the cheating clock. He was a musician who played in bars/clubs/restaurants at night. Since I get up between 5:00 and 5:30am to get myself ready for work and our dd up and off to school, I seldom stay up later than 10:00-10:30pm. So he was free to play his gigs (that were done as early as 9:00pm or as late as 12:30am) and stay out until whenever afterwards – normally between 2:00 or 4:00am. As he became involved with OW (aka his exit affair) last winter/spring, there were even a couple mornings that I would get up in the a.m. and he would not yet be home. I remember once texting him at 5:00am. “What the hell?” His response. “What the hell.” How dare I question where the hell he was at 5:00am.

    He never thought it was a big deal that he stayed out so late. I was in bed sleeping, afterall – what difference did it make when he got home? I got to the point where I didn’t bother to ask, as he always made me out to be the bitch if I questioned his late hours.

    • And don’t you know he had to stay out because he needed to get away from me. Yes he actually said that. And yes, I still stayed in the marriage.

    • HA! r louise… I hear ya. Mine worked in restaurants, bars and nightclubs for the last 10+ years. He never came home before 3 AM and it was standard operating procedure. Why would I question him? He cited the same reason, why should he hurry home, when I am just in bed sleeping and he needs to “wind down” after work. Well, turns out, winding down usually meant canoodling with a hoochie here or a bar tramp there.

    • rlouise– mine too as a second job! Yes, that’s when many of those trysts occurred– I can remember waking up around 1:00 am one night (well after his gig was over) and realizing that he wasn’t in bed and wondering if he was okay. I thought about calling, but then I thought, “Maybe he went out and got a beer with one of his buddies,” as I was always encouraging him to do so that he’d have some sort of social life outside of me. But, he took my trust and manipulated it; he knew that he could meet her afterwards and that I wouldn’t check up on him because I trusted him implicitly. Yep… I’m a big old chump.

      If there’s a next time… I will have serious reservations if the guy is a musician. I know it’s a stereotype, but I foolishly believed that my STBX was the exception to the rule, and I was wrong.

      • Don’t date anyone in the music industry at all. My husband is a production manager for concerts and special events. Same thing with the crazy hours, and he really gets off on name dropping. Ego. I thought he was such a workaholic, I was so worried that he’d work himself into an early grave. I fought with the lawn mower and shoveled feet of snow because he was too busy to come home.

        Someone whose husband was in the business told me that they’re all alcoholics or womanizers. I thought my husband was the exception. The truth is that the industry allows these people to get tons of ego kibble a and remain adolescents forever. Opportunities are everywhere, and those with weak or no character will be able to indulge–and they will.

  • my cheater has a work ethic… but he also has the hardest job in the entire world and I could never understand just how hard it is!!!

  • I also relate to what you said about “overvaluing their contribution to the home”. My STBX would literally tell his family everytime HE actually did something around the house or something with one of our kids. Or if we did something together, it was HE that did it. Did he ever brag or tell them anything that I did? Nope. I did say something about it a few times to him because I realized he made it sound like I didn’t do anything.

    In general, he always said “I” when he should have been saying “we”. Guess that shoulda told me something.

    • aE: mine wanted a gold star and huge recognition if he did a chore. Look at me! I mowed the lawn! I finally cleaned my pigsty of a desk! He was, literally, like a little kid– he wanted kudos if he did something that normal adults do every day without expecting one iota of acknowledgment.

      But… that’s why he had an A. *sob* I just didn’t appreciate his greatness enough! I should have fallen all over him every time he cleaned the pool! Terrible woman that I am…

  • The flip side of a “hard-working” cheating narcissist is one who is scared about having his ass handed to him in a divorce. Yes, mine actually worked while working other chicks. But he certainly used his job as an excuse many o’ time.

    Yup, all that cash will line my pockets nicely. That entitled prick, who makes six figures, can’t even afford a lawyer because he’s so in debt. I laugh!

  • My first XW, a serail cheater, had to go to a homeless shelter to feed the homeless on Christmas Day. I took the kids to her family dinner etc alone.
    When I explained where she was, there was plenty of eye rolling. WTF was wrong with me buying that BS?

    • Arnold , you simply did not deserve to be treated the way you were by your exes.
      You are obviously such a good guy that they think they can walk all over you.

      • That has to change,Baci. I read al this stuff about alpha/beta males on TAM, the constant referal to Athol Kay and his book, and the No More Mr Nice Guy book, too.
        Maybe there is something too it. Guess I am a beta.
        Weird , though, I am a trial lawyer and got 9 Varsity letters in College. I play golf, professionally. But, I am nice and women do not like that, I guess(except for my girlfriend).
        In reality, when I was younger, I could beat most of the “alphas” I knew in almost any athletic endeavor. And, I was good in school, too.
        Guess i need more tattoos or something.

        • Arnold:

          You don’t need tatoos. You ( and me) just need to stop being targets for NPDs.

          They can sniff out a giver ten miles away.

          I used to be blind, but now I see. I am sure you will be able to see an NPD, too.

  • I hear ya chumps. . . . . we were on an island for christmas with my parents and children when my father became ill and needed a doctor (and some minor surgery). My ex, being a doctor, would have been perfect to help find someone . . .but no, suddenly he had to FLY HOME to see a patient and told me “I DON’T WANT TO GET INVOLVED “. Really? Really?! REALLY??!! wtf!!! I ended up picking a doctor out of the phone book and cheater boy showed up a few days later grinning from ear to ear.

    • Holy shit… Hippocratic oath much? You know:

      “I will keep them from harm and injustice.”

      And he leaves your dad to twist in the warm tropical winds???

      Seeing (doing) a patient?

      “keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or men, be they free or slaves.”… “If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all humanity and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my life.”

      Sorry, but doc sounds like a grade A DOUCHE BAG!!!

  • Where is the like button!? You hit the nail on the head!!! I so love your insights. They make me feel so much less crazy.

  • Hmmm. Interesting.

    Mine never liked working for others. He had a couple of jobs as an “employee”, but ultimately went out on his own, as a self-employed individual. Very proud of that fact.

    It allowed him the freedom to carry on his affairs without any question. He/we own rental properties that are 150+ miles from our home. So he was up there 1-2 days a week, managing the property, or getting them ready for sale. If he needed to stay over a night or two to finish up, I never questioned it. I traced his affairs back 5 years, so probably double that. But who knows?

    He has a really serious case of ADD. Even our (adult) children have noted this, and it is a family joke. He will sigh and talk about how hard he is working, and how “he will never finish”. But the child who is living at home laughs at the daily activity. Which consists of: waking at 9 am. Talking on the phone with one of his 2 best friends for 1 – 2 hours. Staring into space for 1-2 hours deciding what to do that day. Maybe 1 or 2 hours of actual work, with frequent interruptions. He’s taken up bagpipe playing, so he stops every half hour or so and “practices” for 5 or 10 minutes. Then there are the constant interruptions to check the internet. Oh – and he’s a hoarder – so he also spends lots of time checking E-bay, either looking for shit to buy, or monitoring his bids.

    That’s another one that I didn’t pick up on during the last, great, LTA. He was into buying small, foreign sports cars (he still has 10, either in various stages of nonfunction in our yard, or hidden off-site). He bought one and made a big show of having his Uncle in MD, check it out. He drove up to MD to pick it up and brought it back home. Then paid someone to do some body and motor work on it. Then convinced me that he had “sold” it to someone in AL, and had to deliver it. Hell, I was actually HAPPY that he had “sold” one, rather than dropping yet another yard sculpture in our yard. Yup, he had purchased and fixed it up on behalf of his bipolar, personality disordered affair partner. Which I found out when I busted the affair.

    The really sad part is that she “made” him buy it back from her in order to stay quiet before our daughter’s wedding. Not all was lost, though. Her threats to make him buy it back or she would “tell everyone”, are what ultimately led the DA in her little hometown to seek to bring charges against her for extortion.

    But I digress. Yes, he is incredibly lazy and entitled. Seems to be par for the course. And can’t work for others because they are beneath him. Must run his own business because he is smarter, better and more wonderful than everyone else. NPD much?

    • “He’s taken up bagpipe playing”

      Hmm, an angry, entitled bagpiper, must be a real treat. I love the old saying:

      Welcome to heaven, here’s your harp. Welcome to hell, here’s your bagpipes… Hang in there mc.

  • I would not say that cheaters are exclusive to the men who are not successful. Clearly we have seen some very successful men get caught cheating and I have been hit on by many successful men.

    • if anything, I think that success just makes these people feel more entitled to cheat. They already think they’re the shit, and now the fact they can buy a lot of shit makes them feel even better about themselves.

  • Working late was the number one excuse, although STBX also managed to squeeze in flings at lunch and on business trips and conduct the emotional part of things right in front of me via social media. He works with current OW so it will be interesting to see how he manages to cheat on her when he eventually does (and I have no doubt he will cheat on her as he has never been faithful in his life it turns out).

    But boy does it make you feel stupid when you realise that while you were doing everything at home and making sure things ran smoothly and perfectly he was out screwing other women. I even remember, shortly before dday, singing the praises of our life, how great it was, how lucky we were to have made it through some pretty tough times over the years and wow, wasn’t he such a great guy for making sure we were taken care of.

    To this day I cringe when I think about saying that, as he had just screwed a very close friend of mine, was already involved with current OW and had been making plans to hook up with an on/off fling on an upcoming business trip.

    He was a busy guy, no doubt.

    • Nord,

      “To this day I cringe when I think about saying that, as he had just screwed a very close friend of mine”

      How does this happen? Honestly, how? Is it built up, just happen, what? Is it just a look, a nod, and bang time? Honestly, I CAN NOT figure out the mindset, or have ever had any feelings that seem to be able to fit this kind of situation (cheating). I know it could seem I’m a goody-two-shoes, but really, how, what has to transpire?

      I mean, listening to some stories it’s like these folks must be gods with earth altering sexual gravitas, two fucked up people who will do anyone, what… Geez, and I’m worried if I’ll ever date after divorce, and cheaters seem to hookup at will, with no effort. Maybe it’s “easy when you’re sleezy.”

      • Jay… I think if your standards are low enough, or if you are willing to pay for it, you can always find someone to worship at your feet. The point is that people like you and I were not looking for anyone to worship us. We were looking, and thought we had, a partner. You can’t make sense of how they do what they do. They are fucked up. The way they go about it doesn’t compute in our minds.

        You will have no problem being able to date after the divorce. You are a genuine, amazing person who, when you are ready, will enjoy getting to know other genuine, amazing people.

        • Thanks Dani for your insight. Thanks also for your kind words and reassurance. It seems so “weird” to think about another lady in my life some day; what it might be like to have her meet my daughter, mother… My brain and heart are so scattered, tired, and torn right now, everything feels out of phase. Gotta admit too, just the thought of being intimate with a new lady seems so surreal too right now; just can’t wrap my head around it.

          Oh well, little steps, lead to great strides. Again, thank you.

    • I think it’s good to wait before connecting with someone new.

      Time and perspective can really be valuable after being cheated on.

      • “Time and perspective can really be valuable after being cheated on”.

        Sarah8 – Very true – otherwise one takes all the negative baggage into the next relationship. When we`ve been cheated on, there`s damage to our psyches and we have to heal that first to become whole again.

        However, I must admit that I found the loneliness really hard to come to terms with. My XH hooked up with someone the week after I moved out – he “found love and companionship” in his words. (We were the happiest couple I knew of and there was plenty of affection, love and companionship as witnessed by our children and friends.) The scope of his serial cheating was what I couldn’t wrap my brain around. All 31 years we were together.
        My youngest left home 4 months after the split to go to University.
        So, there he was, happily hooked up while I was trying to take it in that he had actually cheated on me and the magnitude of it was truly mind boggling, I had to deal with the fact that some friends of ours in the small town we lived in were either part of it or knew about it and didn’t tell me, plus we were living in a different country and different hemisphere, so no family for me to lean on. I had an empty nest with my children gone to University. I had to be strong for my late-teenage children.
        He is now on partner number 3 but is extremely angry at me because I insisted on having a lawyer represent me and the judge ruled that he should be paying me spousal support. He has also rewritten our marital history to justify his actions to our children and friends.
        Not only did I lose my best friend, my husband, my life as I knew it, but my friends too – I didn`t know who he cheated with or tried to cheat with. It was embarrassing. Who could I trust – the loneliness was terrible.
        Not only did I get through it, but I am proud of myself. I lost my dignity at times because I was so angry and I was a prize chump, but I am human and I loved him very much. I forgive myself for that.
        My children are are now young adults, just finishing university. My daughter did not come through this unscathed, but she is getting to a better place. My son handled it well. While they love both their parents, they prefer to spend time and important holidays with their Mum.
        I moved away from the small town we lived in after 4 years and am making new friends. I met a really nice man and we`ll see where this goes. It`s taken 6 years to get here.
        It comes together chumps!
        I believe I would have got to this mindset sooner if I had this site to refer to at the time of D-Day. I take heart from men like Arnold, Bacci and Jay – getting to see that there are good, faithful loving men with integrity and good hearts. I still have bad days sometimes – anniversaries mostly. But this site is a huge help because it gave me `permission` about the forgiveness issue – I don`t forgive him but now have indifference to him and am at peace with that. Reading CL`s posts and words of wisdom and how cheating affected other chumps has been a life line for me and has helped me to move on. This is the hardest thing I have ever faced, but I am blessed with my children and am proud of the sense of self I had at D-Day, even if I did slip and wobble more times than I care to admit.
        Time and perspective is valuable indeed.
        The important thing is that we can do it, no matter how hard it is at the time – people with good, loving faithful hearts as we do deserve to have a loving partner. The cheaters can go fuck themselves and each other. We really are better off without them – I don`t regret leaving him when I found out, because I didn`t deserve what he did to me. Simple fact.

        • Dear Lynn
          Thank you for your last comment.
          It is loving people like you that truly inspire us relatively new chumps.
          The boys and I were completely shaken to the core by the cheating.
          We seemed so happy and even though someone out there had sent an anonymous letter warning me that a lover existed I believed my ex.
          We trust completely. Our love for our family so deep that we can’t envisage that what is happening is real.
          Then we become someone we hate. It’s all so foreign. There’s fear and every imaginable feeling. It’s a roller coaster with no station! Our behaviour sucks.
          But Lynn its people like you that give s hope. That have actually lived it. It’s a club none of us want to belong to.
          Interesting last night we had one of Australia’s richest men worth 6 billion bawling his eyes out in an interview discussing the break down of his marriage and some bad investments some 15 years ago. The boys watched it with me.
          It doesn’t matter how much money you have these things effect you. Deeply.
          What happened though is amazing. He had met Tom Cruise only one or two times and when everyone seemed to desert him, Tom reached out and basically supported him emotionally etc. now I know many question old Tom and what he has done but to see the raw emotion last night was compelling.
          Sometimes when we are in shit creek with a leaking canoe and no paddle people like you and chump lady patch up some holes in the canoe and give us some timber so we can build a paddle.

          Only in hindsight can we look back and assess the cheating. Only afterwards do people come forward with information because they didn’t want to be the people that hurt us.
          Only afterwards, much afterwards can we put things in some order and perspective.

          It’s a very bizarre feeling ,all this stuff that we process but thankfully there are people like you to inspire us to keep going and know there is a new and better life out there for us and our kids.

          Thank you Lynn

          • How nice of you Baci. And I thank you.
            I can relate with everything you said there – and I did become someone I hated because of my anger, fears, the intense pain I felt where my heart used to be and the terrible, crushing loneliness I experienc, I was always aware of my sense of self even if it was only a vague shadow with the sheer magnitude of the unbelievable situation I found myself in.
            I love your analogy of the canoe and paddle. The fact is Baci, you may not realize it yet, but you are well on your way out of shit creek to calmer, clean & clear water. Do you know how I know that? Your attitude – you say that we give you timber to build a new paddle with. Awesome way to think – you’re rebuilding already. Pat yourself on the back for that one.
            The paddle may be different now but we can depend on it to negotiate us through any turbulent waters in the future. It fits in our hands more comfortably and we instinctively build it stronger.
            Now tonight please do something for me. Look up at the Southern Cross and drink in the beauty of that night sky – I miss it so! The Sky in the Northern Hemisphere is so different if it’s ever clear enough to see. It rains lot on Vancouver Island and I think I’m genetically programmed for more sunshine than I get.

        • Lynn
          Just further to your comment I find it unbelievable the timing of cheating and maybe this something chump lady could prose as a discussion idea.
          It seems to happen early when kids are young and maybe the husband doesn’t want the drama of raising a family.
          It also seems to happen when the kids are leaving or about to leave school.

          Thanks very much for all your hard work darling but I’m off to fuck someone else and I just need access to the kids. They’re old enough, they’ll accept it in time bla bla.
          However the cheaters make a major mistake here and get very very very pissed off when the children don’t accept the OM/OW. They are old enough and not stupid
          CSM did the same to his wife and I find it so sad. What an inspiration she is though raising her two daughters. Sure he sends money but she sucks up all the hurt and carries on with integrity and grace.

          • Good points Baci. How do they find it so easy to do it so effortlessly though – WTF? I couldn’t do it in a million years if you paid me.

  • Baci, the thing that always strikes me is how the cheater NEVER thinks anything through rationally before they destroy a marriage with kids. If you read the statistics on successful remarriage its VERY disheartening. So, even when there is no cheating involved remarriages often fail because the kids are not accepting of the new step mom/step dad etc. Given that, why then would a cheater spouse think that their kids are just going to think the OW/OM is going to be accepted and that life will be wonderful for all? Huh?

    That’s why it’s laughable that your STBXW is so frustrated that the boys don’t want anything to do with Chainsaw Man. She is thinking about HER, it will make HER happy if the kids do what she wants and think Chainsaw Man is the cats meow. Again, she didn’t think about them at all. What your boys wanted was for Mom and Dad to be together and live happily everafter. Chainsaw Man was just never ever part of their happy picture for the future that’s for sure!

    • The chance of success in introducing a new partner following divorce are dismissed if done too soon or in an improper manner. The chance of introducing an affair partner are substantially disminished.
      This has always been about her.
      I have a problem though. I have exposed the affair completely to everyone. They told CSM daughters and his parents in NZ that we had been separated for 18 months before d day and they told them 6 months before d day. Hope, these are church going been married for nearly 55 years people. I’m absolutely confident they must be asking themselves about the mental state of their son and his fuck buddy.
      The issue now is I’m no longer an option. Therefore if CSM gives up on ex I’m going to get all the blame etc etc. I know she owns it but at the moment I’m getting all the blame because the boys don’t want to meet him.
      I am working overtime to encourage a normall relationship with mum but she wouldn’t see that.
      You see CSM is selfish. That’s not my opinion. It’s just a result of his actions:
      Had to affairs on his wife
      Left two young daughters in NZ. Ok he went back 6-8 times a year for first two years.
      Spends two days with them at Christmas and rushes back to ex for Xmas sex. ( two years running)
      Sends text messages which my oldest son intercepted for two years on mums phone.
      These are all selfish actions.

      And my ex tells the boys he’s a good man. Where’s the fucking proof!
      She trying to compare him to me to the boys. Look with the utmost embarrassment everyone calls me a good man. I help out with the local footy club and I often do things for people just because. The boys see it and hear it. It didn’t just start happening- it’s been going on since they were born.
      If CSM and WORM(wife orange ride-on mower)- sorry my warpt sense of humour) want to get on with it that’s fine but show some respect for the people they’ve hurt. I just think they think they are above and beyond consequence. Narcissist- there’s no other description for them.
      Sad because these clowns don’t see the damage. You’ve been through it along woth Lynn, jay, Nord and some of you have had experiences with adultery that makes mine look like a walk in the park.
      Unfortunately we have to go through the process and we have good days and we have bad days.

  • Oh yes, the check in phone calls. Took me awhile to figure out what they were. Now if I get one I immediately start looking past it.

    Weird thing is this…..for almost 2 years after after finding online dating profiles….I added our cell phone providers GPS family finder option. For those 2 years I knew where is was any time I wanted…..if I got one of those calls I ping his phone. He left early for work……I tracked his progress there and back and throughout the day (let’s not get into how I was so controlled by all of this) and there was no unaccounted for time. So what was he doing?
    Any ideas?
    I even wondered if he was leaving his phone in his vehicle and taking off with someone but I would call and he would answer.

    Yet I still feel as if he were up to something… the very least he was toying with the idea…hence the profiles. PLUS I found dating profiles from before we even met!! So it’s obviously his M.O.

  • To add to my above comment. That was just those 2 years. In retrospect, he had chances before when I was still so trusting and easily fooled. But it seems that once I become suspicious of a behavior he changes it.
    And as everyone has already stated, he feels entitled.

    I tell people that know him, he doesn’t think like the rest of us. He was a Marine Corp sniper for 12 years and as far as I can see he has no real regard for anyone else. There are certain things he doesn’t do because he can’t afford and doesn’t want to go to jail, but other than that, everything is about him. I’m not saying it’s all about the Marines because from what I understand he had that basic personality before he went into the service, but the training gave him more to work with.

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