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The very bad, no good infidelity advice you should reject… spit on… then set alight… and stomp on

If you’ve spent any time trolling the infidelity online forums and support groups, you’ve invariably encountered some of the following dreadful nuggets of craptacular advice. If I’ve left any off, I’m sure you can add to the list. Who made me God and how do I know this is bad advice? Because either I have followed it with dismal, painful results or I’ve watched hundreds of other people (reading on boards for years) follow this advice with dismal, painful results.

The bad advice is predicated on chumps remaining chumps and generally centers around two tenets of chumpdom — a) doing the humiliating dance of “pick me!” and b) spackle. Either — you can improve yourself to make them change! (because really this is all your fault) — or — let’s call it something else! (something with potential!) because it’s really Not That Bad and If We Wait It Out Things Will Improve.

Without further ado, don’t do this:

1. Wait six months to make a decision. The mother of all malarky. It’s also sometimes expressed as, wait one month for every year of the marriage to make a decision.

Would we give this advice to people being physically abused? Hey, I know he’s beating you senseless, but that may stop. Don’t leave now because you’re upset about being slugged. He’ll get tired of slugging you, see the error of his ways, and then you can fix this!

Well, when you put it that way, it looks pretty ridiculous. And yet anyone who has experienced infidelity can tell you, they’d much prefer to have been hit than to have been cheated on. The psychic wounds of betrayal are worse than physical assault. A person who is engaged in an affair, who is eating cake, who can’t “decide” is actively disrespecting and abusing you. You should not stick around six months for them to continue to treat you like crap. Why not just decorate yourself with chocolate frosting and marzipan letters than spell C-H-U-M-P so they can enjoy more cake?

The wait-six-months advice feels good to Limbo Chumps who can’t seem to bust a move to save themselves. It justifies their indecision and fuels their false hope. Oh! Maybe my cheater will snap out of it and reconcile with me! Reconciliation is a timid forest creature and I must not scare it away! Which brings me to my next piece of craptacular advice…

2. There is a wayward fog and they’re going to come out of it. Just wait. Poor cheaters, they know not what they do. All their self serving bullshit excuses? That’s just “fog speak.” They don’t really mean it. (They do, they’re manipulating you. It’s very deliberate.)

Did they quit the affair partner because you huffed and puffed and threatened divorce? Are they sulky? That’s just the fog! Wait, it will pass. It takes awhile for them to “grieve” their affair partner. Well yes, you don’t want to have to hear the details of their sordid fuckfests, but they’re in mourning. It’s all “fog think.”

Essentially, any time a cheater does something stupid and thoughtless, you can attach the word “fog” to it and excuse it. No remorse? They’re in the fog. Can’t go no contact with their fuckbuddies? Fog again. Said she never would’ve cheated if you made more money? Foggy talk!

Real fog is a temporary weather condition. It clears. Not so with cheaters. They’re fog machines. The obfuscation and narcissistic whinnying are deliberate. They do what they do because they want what they want. It’s that simple.

Who’s in a fog then? Chumps. It clears when you see them for who they are, not who you want them to be.

3. Make the marriage a good place to be. This of course is another variation of the Humiliating Dance of “Pick Me.” Marriage Builders recommends this utterly schizophrenic dance — make the marriage and home lovely. Keep things clean and tidy, go to the gym more, dress spiffy! Be pleasant! At the same time — communicate your desire to stay married but tell them you won’t tolerate cheating. Maybe see a lawyer, that’ll scare them! Everything you do to shake them out of the affair should be done with a nod towards — see what you’re missing?

Oh that works. Yes, reward cheaters with a better marriage that they are not participating in. Excellent idea. While we’re at it, lets bailout Wall St. and reward them with tax breaks for fucking up our economy with the subprime mortgage crisis. (Oh hang on, we already did this? And they rewarded us with stock market volatility and higher ATM fees? Fuck that!) Rewarding people for bad behavior generally tends to encourage MORE bad behavior, not less.

And cheaters aren’t missing their “good” marriage. They tend to feel they deserve good as their baseline and you could do better. Dance that dance! You cannot miss what is still there in the kitchen packing your lunch each day. You want them to miss the marriage? LEAVE THE MARRIAGE. That’s how that works.

We’ll explore the other lousy advice tomorrow. I might have a whole week’s worth. Feel free to add your own in the comments — and remember — don’t be a chump!

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  • I would also add “the 180”.

    Not because detaching and doing things for oneself is a bad idea, it isn’t. It is a very good idea. It is the path to freedom.

    The thing that makes the 180 a bad idea the way it is presented and utilized on Healings ‘R Us sites is that it is used a means to win the pick me competition. The 180 will snap that foggy cheater right back into shape.

    Well, it will usually cause a cheater to notice and to start panicking and will often result in a temporary return to the fold, because it is withholding kibble. But as soon as you relax the 180, the cheater will return to his/her MO. So that’s why you see them saying: “Well, he’s not remorseful, start the 180”. Or, “time to 180 her ass, hard”.

    180, by all means. For yourself and to get yourself out of the marriage.

    The other bad bad bad advice I see there, well, it isn’t advice as much as it is a complete lack of understanding of a concept is “boundaries”. What they refer to as “boundaries” are actually conditions. They are setting up a marriage Standard Operating Procedure as in, “You must be in compliance on the following conditions…” and then they list them. No contact, no porn, no looking at other people in the street, no friends of the opposite sex, no going out after work, you must call me when you get up from your desk and then call me as soon as you return to your desk, if you meet someone in the hall and talk, you must take a photo of that person and you must send it to me so I know why there is a delay in you returning to your desk…. blah blah blah.

    It is just a bunch of rules. Boundaries, honestly, are personal and they are generally unstated, because you own them. And if a boundary is crossed you get away from the person. You don’t sit and negotiate the boundary or give endless second chances. If you are willing to negotiate your boundaries, then you don’t really have boundaries, or you have easily breached boundaries, and that’s a personal problem that needs fixing. That is not something that your cheating spouse can fix or repair or do for you. That is, however, something that your cheating spouse can take advantage of, and they do.

    Moreover, if you have a long list of compliance-related conditions surrounding the quest for the unicorn, then you open yourself up to tons of risk. Because what about the conditions that you’ve neglected to list? Do you think that your cheater is not going to be madly seeking loopholes?

    So, you have someone on one of the healing sites recently asking: is this crossing a boundary? And goes on to relate how a boundary that was set for “R” (and by boundary, she really means condition) is that he not go bike training with single females on his own. So he went with another guy and a single female. And he’s technically in compliance with the condition she set for him, but she feels icky about it, because it seems like he’s not really in compliance. But the reality is that he found the loophole and she still feels insecure. Because she has no fucking boundary of her own!! She was trying to set HIS boundaries for him, because that’s what compliance is about, setting boundaries for others, but that’s a no win.

    Set boundaries for yourself, and they should include: “If someone does not respect me enough to be honest with me and not betray me emotionally, sexually, or both, then I must get myself out of the relationship with that person.”

    • Yes, and what sort of marriage is that if you’re playing prison warden/private detective all the time? I want to be with a man whom I don’t have to check on because he loves me enough to want only me and to not seek kibbles elsewhere. The constant spying sounds time-consuming, exhausting, and truly depressing.

      I did the 180 for me– it was helpful in that sense. I agree that doing it to lure back the cheater is completely useless.

      • Agree so much: who the hell wants to have their head up their cheating spouse’s ass 24/7, just to ‘make sure’ they’re not cheating. Fuck that. You want to cheat? Go for it. Just don’t fuck up my life in the process. hard lesson learned and one I’ll never forget.

        • ABSOLUTELY!!! I am so glad to have found this site! It is a God send. In my experience, I tried all the little marriage advice even tho I thought it was completely stupid! All to break up later in the Marriage because of the ultimate betrayal. My conclusion, you have to be a really weak person to accept a whole relationship conducted behind your back! and The person who is cheating( having a full blown affair with emotional attachment) doesn’t want to be with you but doesn’t have the balls to tell you that! period!! It’s NO FOG, I mean really, the person in the affair knows how they feel, they just don’t want YOU to know. Move on!

    • I totally agree the role of marriage police sucks. And that’s one of the reasons I am skeptical about R. Because no one can remain hypervigilant. You either tire of playing cop, and retreat. Or endure in the marriage with “can I trust you?” pop quizzes. Or take it on faith, which can feel sickeningly like rug sweeping. It’s just a no win for the chump. And I can’t imagine its fun for the cheater either, assuming they’re remorseful. No look! I’m not cheating! for as long as the chump needs it.

    • Let’s not forfet that women phusically abuse men just as fequently.So, guys, don’t wait 6 months if she hits you.

  • Oh dear, I’m afraid the Nord of the first two months was buying into this crap and naturally it resulted in me making a complete tit of myself. It’s hard not to fall into the trap, though, when you’re reeling from pain, see your kids falling to pieces and just want your life back.

    • I was on board for all of these things the first few days after DDay… fortunately, I was surrounded by people IRL who knocked some sense into me (since this was long before I discovered CL). My family members said, “Are you crazy??!! You’d honestly give him a second chance!?!?”

      Fortunately, finding out that he had unprotected sex with her and was giving me yeast infections (sorry, TMI) grossed me out enough that I was completely done less than a week after DDay. I don’t wish to disrespect the marital choices of others when they choose to reconcile, but overall, I don’t think that true reconciliation occurs all that often. More often than not, one or both partners are willing to rugsweep, whether it’s for the sake of the children, the fear of financial ruin, or the belief that there isn’t anything/anyone better outside of their current relationship.

      I’m just grateful that I didn’t lose years to false R. I feel so sorry for the chumps who endure that mess.

      • I am surrounded by very sane people IRL – but they didn’t understand my situation, didn’t know my husband as I did. Didn’t hear the night-long conversations we had, the crying, the trying to get over this…

        I am ashamed to say that not until it came from CL, someone who never even met me or my husband, it hit me. I think I chose to spackle right over their advice. It wasn’t until I read things here that described me, my husband and our situation to a tee, that I understood there was nothing unique to us (and that those people IRL knew what they were talking about!).

        • Welcome DC! I was wondering where those hits from the Netherlands were coming from. Yes, one of the sad realizations about infidelity is that it follows a very predictable arc. As evil goes, it’s really, really banal.

      • I kicked him out right after dday but it still took me a couple of months to really say ‘enough’…he ate cake for awhile and I stupidly put up with it.

        Now, about those yeast infections…can a cheater who doesn’t use protection really cause that in their partner? Because if so, that explains a lot.

        • That is what I have read; your flora gets disrupted when it’s mixed with someone else’s. That definitely happened to me because it ended once STBX and I ended. Sorry, everyone– I know that this isn’t a health thread.

          • I never realised…and there was a period where I was getting them for no reason I could think of. Hmmm…I’m wondering but realise it doesn’t matter. Hopefully he’ll give OW crabs. 🙂

  • Made every mistake you mention here and elsewhere on the CL site. On Dr.’s orders no less, our MC told me not to push any decision, let him figure it out, let him get to see for himself a rainbow-farting-unicorn future with OW was far from reality. Meanwhile I should focus on what I wanted (and in those first months I only wanted my marriage back, our perfectly happy core-family, my unknowing children to stay happy, my own rainbow-farting-unicorn future with him).

    Took me 6 months and several visits to this site to finally see there was indeed a fog: the one blinding me. Not just after finding out about the LTA, but long before that I was happily spackling away…

    And he would have kept on fence sitting for months, years. Was all in his interest, kept the cake-supply going. The MC would happily have kept on billing us (she said she was genuininely sad when I told her I decided to step out – gave her a link to this site when she wanted to know why!). The only one that lost sleep, drove herself crazy and finally broke, was me.

    Nevertheless, I’m not sure I could have made the decision I finally did (divorce this guy) right away on D-Day. The process I went through helped me see little by little through my spackle, the more I continued to put on, the more kept falling of. I might have needed this time to give it my all and not see it as failing, but as taking my losses. I know now that I tried everything in the book, even if it was useless from the get-go.

    So, I thoroughly agree with everything you write here. Might not do the same thing a second time around (please not, hope never to live through this again). But the first time this happened to me, I was far too afraid to risk this precious, vulnerable reconciliation thing… even though even then on a deeper level I knew it shouldn’t be fleety and up to one person to fight for. I knew, I understood, and still had to go through every humiliating moment of trying to get it…

    Thank you, for getting ME out of the fog!

    PS: any cheater that says European women would not be so judgemental… not sure if that should make me laugh or cry!

    • I think the whole European women/men are different lie is dropped by people who want you to think they’re sophisticated/worldly and don’t you feel ashamed of being such a small town hick?

    • I’ve actually thought about that a bit myself… that it’s cool there’s people on this site from all over the world. And they’re pissed about being cheated on as well. It’s not just us “prudish” Americans.

      • Where I live not a single person has been less than shocked by what he did – with the exception of his family and maybe two of his friends.

    • I agree it takes time to figure things out. But IMO the wait and see is NOT a good idea with someone who is actively in the affair (and if they’re not sorry or acting flinchy, whatever they say to the contrary, they’re still in the affair). They’re hurting you. And while they’ve got you down, they’re fucking you over. Hiding evidence, money, making plans, and eating cake. I didn’t do this — but it’s best to move on ASAP — if the cheater REALLY is remorseful and wants to work on it, they’ll do what it takes. It’s not contingent on what you do.

      But so many want to play “let’s make a deal!” — which is a ploy for cake. They’ll commit, maybe, if you do x, y, and z. Chumps get stuck in the bargaining, when they should be moving forward. It’s just that it is so very painful to realize that they don’t care.

  • “Make the marriage a good place to be.”

    I remember that one being especially puzzling and painful. I truly felt that the marriage was ALREADY a good place to be. What more could I do? Since she was addicted to online gaming and having affairs, the only thing left for me to “give” to the marriage was to allow her to do . . . whatever she wanted. Including spending as much time online as she wanted and allowing her endless time and “space” to choose between her family and the latest affair partner. Which felt A LOT like being told that to save my marriage I had to allow my marriage to be destroyed. Talk about putting your brain through a meat-grinder. . . .

    But betrayed spouses are so distraught and desperate immediately following D-day, and (if they haven’t found this site) so cut off from anyone with relevant experience, I think you could tell them to do ANYTHING and half of them would give it a go. No snake oil is too toxic, no psycho-babble too nonsensical. Stand on my head and spin like a top while reciting the alphabet backwards? Absolutely. Give me chance. I can do this.

    • My MIL told me to be nicer to him and make myself more attractive. Fuck that. If I’m going to be more attractive (and I wasn’t a dog before this) then it’s for me..and then it’s for the next person I get involved with, who will deserve the effort. NOt doucheball cheaterman.

        • You don’t know the half of it. She was the OW in FIL first marriage. She also says that ‘everyone cheats’. She seems to think that this is part of ‘being sophisticated’. She came from very humble beginnings and it would appear it still has her riddled with insecurity.

          • Oh, I get it, now! She is special, and she knows that you could have been special, too, if only you’d been as sexy and special as she was. Because special ladies are irresistible to passionate and righteous men. Got it!

            • Yeah, she’s special alright. I think she’s the one I’m most pissed at because she not only created STBX, she’s enabled him every step of the way.

    • Nomar – “But betrayed spouses are so distraught and desperate immediately following D-day, and (if they haven’t found this site) so cut off from anyone with relevant experience, I think you could tell them to do ANYTHING and half of them would give it a go”

      That is so true! I think that might possibly be the only good thing about waiting to really take major action is that you literally need some time just to get your head on straight. Because you’re walking around like a fucking zombie probably for at least the first week or two. The problem is, you might drink too much of the wrong kool-aid during this waiting period. In fact, I still believe in the possibility of reconciliation (at this point for others, not myself) probably more than I should due to believing in it so completely for 6 months. I’m just glad somewhere deep down inside I knew that I at least needed him to prove SOMETHING to me to take responsibility and show that he was willing to put me and our family and our marriage before himself before I really committed to it. And I guess lucky? for me he was too much of a dick to even do that. So I didn’t waste too much time in false reconciliation. We didn’t even get to reconciliation. We spent 6 months in pre-reconciliation 🙂

      • pre-reconciliation!! I love it. That’s where I spent 18 months! I was such a chump. I so wanted to believe the people on the boards that told me he would come out of the “fog” eventually. Even at the time, I knew it was just a bullshit excuse for lies and abuse. Oh if only I had found CL earlier 🙂 Oh, and I loved when people on the pro-R boards would advise me to make stbxh take a lie detector test. WTF?? If I have to strap him down to get the truth, why bother. I am so glad to be away from all the craziness.

        • Yeah, the lie detector thing has always made me laugh and say WTF at the same time. A lie detector text? In a marriage? Are you fucking kidding me? And people actually agree to this shit?

          • Yeah, how about an ankle bracelet monintor, a large cash bond, and burly security guards as well. Now that’s true love worth saving, right?


  • Two pieces of advice that were helpful to me prior to D-Day, during, & after D-Day:

    1 – waiting a period of time before making a decision. In my situation, I gave myself 4 months to make the decision to divorce or attempt reconciliation. I didn’t tell my STBXW or our MC. That time was invaluable – it allowed me to clear my head and make a rational, thought-out decision. It allowed me to get over the emotional roller coaster.

    2 – the “180.” I started the 180 prior to D-day. As an emotionally enmeshed husband, it allowed me to see my XW for the selfish, childish person that she is/was. I stopped enabling her and began shedding my Nice Guy tendancies. I was able to see things differently than I had for the entire marriage. It was a tremendous help. Of course, if you are doing the 180 to win your spouse back, you are a fool!

    • It took me quite awhile to get myself together enough to do the 180 but once I did it was great. The one thing I can that I did correctly was kicking him out right after dday. It broke my heart to do that and I still vacillated for several months but getting him out of the house showed me who he really was: a weak man who could not deal with or face up to who he was. He hasn’t changed one iota since then. Meanwhile, I’m growing by leaps and bounds and my life is kind of awesome, I realised today.

    • I knew that any way of “faking” the 180, just to get him back, would not work for me. I’m not such a good… euh, lying cheat? The moment I was ready for the 180, I was ready to go. That was the exact moment all the spackle fell off and I saw the writing on the wall…

      • I feel the same way,. I couldn’t sit around pretending I was doing well, or just ignoring him. I was in so much pain and so freaked out by what I found out about him that I just had to say what I was thinking whenever I saw him…or got an email from him.

        Then I reached that point where I was ready to disengage. And from that moment on I did, little by little. Now I’m more or less disengaged and rarely can he do anything to get to me. I had to do it my way, i guess, with lots of mistakes along the way but hey, we all have our own path, right?

        • Yes, see!! That’s exactly what I meant when I said the 180 is a joke, unless it isn’t. If you do the 180, then you’re detaching because you want out. Detaching takes time. But most people do the 180 simply as a way to influence the cheater to get him or her out of the fog.

          But if the 180 works in that way, i.e. gets the cheater back, then you know you’re in a world of hurt, because the cheater is just responding like pavlov’s dog to a loss of kibble. As soon as things become normal again, and by that I mean the BS is no longer 180ing, then the cheater will retreat again.

          It becomes a mindfuck of epic proportions.

          180= detach and build a life independent of the cheater, and mean it. That’s the only way it works.

  • Damn shame Tracy the three you mention, and more as you know are actively endorsed by marriage counseling “professionals”… Enable the WS, Make the WS a fucking victim, blame the BS, shake vigorously, and awwww; see, no loosers, just winners on the road to a better, stronger marriage than ever!!!

    Fuck that, fuck them and the boards that promote the shit, a.k.a., “The reconciliation industrial complex.” (God I love that phrase I first read of here, genius.)

  • The best piece of advice I can give which took me many months to understand or act on
    Ask your cheating spouse if they like sex? ( dah!) Yes of course they do
    Ask your cheating spouse if she/ he likes travel. Yes course they do

    Well then FUCK OFF!

  • #3 – make the marriage a good place to be.

    Kinda pissed I even remotely did this. It actually almost seemed like my STBX wanted me to prove and show HIM how good it could be before he was willing to do anything for me to save the marriage. Pretty sure he was the one that needed to be making things up to me… he was the goddamn cheater.

    Specifically, I regret having sex with him after Dday. Obviously it didn’t happen right away, but you don’t want to completely withhold it if you are hoping to reconcile. After all, not enough sex is what got you into this mess in the first place, right?? (puh-leeze) Anyway, I eventually meet with a lawyer and he tells me that in my state if you have sex with your spouse after you discover an infidelity you have legally “forgiven him” and you can’t use infidelity as the reason for the divorce!!! He was going to try to work some angle that I did it contingent on him firing the AP which he didn’t do, or something along those lines. In the end, I did mediation anyway (and he’s getting his fucking “no fault” divorce) so I didn’t need it. But yeah, I actually lost leverage legally because I “tried to make the marriage a good place to be”.

  • Yeah, I did all these things. I kept hoping that STBX would “snap out of it”, that he would see how “nice” I had made things at home, that I was not blaming him, that I only wanted him to get help.

    He ate cake for over a year (with my help – yeah, I made mistakes and needed help to cut off his cake supply). Once I found this site and saw that I wasn’t alone, that our situation wasn’t unique (is there a cheater manual out there somewhere, because after reading posts here they seem to be doing variations of the same thing?) and that I had been majorly chumped, I got wise. And I got angry. And I started planning (and living) a life for those who are truly important in my life – my kids, my family and friends who stuck by me, and ME!

    I’d forgotten what it was like to eat real food; the STBX’s kibbles had kept me starving for so long…

  • Literally back to square one today
    I feel like a fool and so low I can barely function. Since Dday he has been doing the textbook cake eating and I have been (despite denying it to everyone including myself doing some form of the pick me dance). He moved out and less than a block away from the OW. Despite this I got many late night texts that he did not want a divorce, we took a family trip to Europe for three weeks, spent the holidays together and up until three weeks ago were supposed to go on a family vacation during spring break. And although i knew it was bullshit the whole time, i secretly hoped things would work out. ANd I never shook the boat, kept secretly doing the pick me dance (denying it to myself). THree weeks ago he tells me he is too busy for spring break, when I called him on it and asked it he was with the OW or another woman, that I needed the truth he refused to speak to me. All he can tell me is that he can’t live with the limbo, that out problems have nothing to to do with anyone else (red flag), that he had only been around to make things easier for the kids. Now clearly something or someone has happened in the past three weeks. Everyone who saw the train wreck knew it was coming including me, but it is like reliving this all over again. Went to see a lawyer both before and after Dday. He begged me not to file (of course now he denies this) and 18 months later i get the slap in the face again. Relieved but heartbroken nonetheless. If it weren’t for kids I don’t think I would be able to get out of bed

    • We had a letter from the child of a cheater. It boiled down to this – don’t stay for the children. What kind of man do you want your sons to grow up to be? What sort of example do you want your daughters to follow? Do you want any of them to suffer the way you are suffering? Then don’t let them think it’s alright to be treated that way.

    • Pearl,
      So sorry you are going through this. It sucks. I was doing the same thing around the holidays. STBX just wanted to ward off the lonelies until after the new year (when someone else could keep him company). I hate the gas lighting…You are not crazy, just in a crazy situation. Hang in there.

      • Thank you. He was just warding off the lonely until it was better for him to back off. Feel so used. I am really in disbelief

        • You were used and I went through it myself, with his parents completely pushing me to do the first holiday ‘together’–which was maybe 5 weeks after dday. Five days later he was on holiday with OW while I was home with crying kids. That’s the first time I handed him divorce papers and while it took six months to get him to sign those first round of papers (he still hasn’t signed the second round) I was determined after that bullshit.

          Don’t beat yourself up. You’re human and you’re being treated horribly by someone who should be the last person to treat you this way. Fuck him, he will lose in the end–and you will thrive. It’s just going to take awhile.

      • Thank you everyone. Your support made today bearable. I honestly don’t know what I would have done without out it. Thank you all again

    • Hahaaha…love when they deny what they say/said and do/did. STBX still denies he was trying to sort things out with me while banging OW on the side, even offering to move countries if that would help. It makes me laugh now but there was a point where it would absolutely enrage me.

      • I am not crazy right? I am doubting my sanity because I can’t believe he has the nerve to tell me he moved out so I should have known better. He would text me every night and tell me he didn’t want a divorce. We bought an investment property together and just closed on it Friday. I feel like I took crazy pills!

        • Pearl, you are not crazy. You were chumped… again. He was telling you exactly what you wanted to hear, and you lapped it up. Like many of us have. I am so glad you came on here and talked about what has happened. Get the support you can from here, and then start talking to people you are close to in your life to get support from them. You are going to need it. And you are going to need them to help you stay accountable to what you need to do. We have all done this to some extent. He will always re-write history as it suits him. And that will make you feel crazy. You are not crazy. You are hurt, and sad. And that’s okay. But let it propel you.

    • Pearl, I’m so sorry you’re hurting.

      You are not a fool and you are not the only one to do this. Hope is just really the last thing to die, and it totally sucks that it hangs on so long.

      But, here’s the thing — now you know for sure what he is. You know it. And you can act on that knowledge and do what is best for you and your children. It will not be easy and there will be icky stuff to deal with, but now you can begin to heal.

      Hang in there!!

    • fuck him!

      And don’t blame yourself… it’s really hard. And you still want to be a family. Hell, even while I’d accepted the divorce and had taken action, I was still playing family when I could. Telling myself we should still all go to Disney World together next year. Eating out together. People would ask me if I was considering reconciling and I’d look at them like they were crazy and say no. And yet, clearly I still hadn’t moved on fully. Wasn’t able to give up on my dream of the nuclear family. Over the past many months I’ve given up on that fantasy little by little. But it’s still not gone completely. Giving up your dreams and plans and what you know is a hard hard thing. But you’ll be better once he’s lost the power to make you feel shitty. You’ll make new dreams and plans. Shaking the boat was the right thing to do! You deserve better! You can’t trust him. I think you should go see that lawyer again.

      • Thank you. Have five kids in house. Three mine two friends and I am sitting in closet crying. I totialy could live without the loser but I can’t get over the loss of the family. Oldest ten youngest just turned five. Nonsense goin on in some shape or form for two years. I can honestly say its almost a relief to be done with him but I am terrified of what to do next. B worried for my kids and at the end of my reserves emotionally

          • do you have a therapist and/or a really good friend or family? Who and what have you told people already?

            I hope that you have a good friend/babysitter that you can call and drop off the kids. Even their damn dad. You need time to yourself.

            I want to write more, but I have to go… I’ll check back later.

            • Yes I have a therapist. She has been trying to get me to come to acceptance. I have kept mostly quiet as I haven’t wanted to give anyone details. How could I say anything when I didn’t know what was going on and for the sake o my kids I didn’t want to out their father as the scum he is

              • Acceptance is fine, but it comes after GOING ON THE OFFENSIVE.

                Time to punch back Pearl. Quit taking it. See a lawyer. Do it for your kids. You don’t have to out him as anything. You’re the wronged party here. I’m sorry you’re cleaning up his messes, but don’t wear his shame. He needs to face walking out on his kids. That’s on HIM. Not you.

              • Be honest: you’re divorcing him because he cheated. As far as the kids it’s fine to tell them, depending on age, that dad was dating someone else and that’s not acceptable in a marriage.

          • Well Pearl I told everyone. I told everyone the truth because I had the facts.

            It does and doesn’t matter.
            On one hand it proves to the cheater you’re not to be fucked with. By telling they know you think it’s over so when you tell you want to be sure it’s terminal.
            To some people they don’t give a fuck. That took a while to sink in but a good friend who separated the same week as us really drove that point home- most people don’t give a fuck and she is right.
            There are only one or two really close people that will help you through this stuff.
            What’s really important to me is telling the truth. It’s so important to get the facts out.
            Look back at the other posts for my story about my bos finding out but it’s all age appropriate as to what they think of their father. They will judge you on what you do from now on.
            I also had a shit day today so thank you for sharing. We derive a lot of strength from each other here.

        • The loss of the family is really hard. I still feel it and still get angry that he pissed away everything for his dick. I think the one thing I’ll never understand is how he could do this to the kids, particularly after seeing their pain. But then seeing how he reacted to their pain (he told them to get over it) I realised he’s just not a good person.

          • The loss of family is my biggest pain and greatest regret.
            I get this sent to me this afternoon-:

            “As you know ……I’m moving up the road to be closer to the boys,as per the boys request and I’m hoping it works.

            WTF. Hoping it works. How about getting rid of chainsaw man and the boys will come over more often. She doesn’t get it. They will just call now before riding the 300yards up the road or if the black Volvo is in driveway they’ll just ride home.
            She hasn’t had the boys together since Christmas and wonders why.
            Loss of family is huge. I hate it.

            • I hate it as well and what I hate even more is that STBX plays happy families with my kids and OW–and they do all the same stuff we did as a family, except OW is in my role and STBX and her act like I never existed. It’s bizarre but it also makes me realise he doesn’t have the imagination to think up fun stuff on his own, where as I did and do.

    • Pearl, please file and do as much NC as you can with this idiot.

      You’re a wreck because you’ve allowed him to jerk you around, raise your hopes (that damn hope), and eat cake. When you detox from that terrible situation, you’ll feel better in time. But withdrawal SUCKS.

      Take charge of this situation (as soon as you get out of bed, it’s okay to have a bad day, but kick yourself up and out tomorrow, okay?). Make that lawyer appointment, that shrink appointment, go see a friend. Get mad and get strong!

      Because he’ll be back for more kibbles. It’s coming. His investment with you and the kids was chasing your kibbles. What happened in the last three weeks, IMO, is the OW started pitching a fit, so now you go on the back burner and he chases her kibbles. Gets a place near her, puts distance with you now.

      He doesn’t want you to file, because that ends CAKE. But that is exactly what you must do. Stop this horrible dynamic at once, because he’s not going to.

      • Dear chump lady and everybody else. THANK YOU.
        I need NC. I am trying but even an hour is hard. He/we text email or call all day long every day. I know it is toxic but it is like a bad habit.

        • I would tell him you will only discuss the kids with him and really really try to stick to it. Try to really think of him JUST as their father. That is all he is to you now. My soon to be ex (by the way, the reason I had to go earlier was to do my depositions to finalize my divorce!) would always still try to talk to me about his work, soccer, blah blah. But that’s just another way of cake-eating… they still want us to perform our other wifely duties and be there for them, and now since you’re separated its even better because he’s actually now ALLOWED to go get his other ass. I told him that we are only allowed to discuss the children. And cooking 🙂 (used to watch food network together back in the day, so figured it’s a non controversial subject we may still have in common). Yeah, we’ve failed once in a while. We’re human. Well, at least I am 🙂 But every time we try to be friendly and talk about topics outside the kids, that works for about 5 minutes, then he brings up something complaining about how broke he is (boo hoo for him and of course it’s insinuated that it’s my fault because I initiated the divorce) and then we get in a fight again. I think I’ve just been adjusting my dreams in increments. When nuclear family didn’t work, I wanted to be one of those insanely amicable divorced families they show in sitcoms (New Adventures of Old Christine anyone?). Now I am realizing that isn’t going to happen either. Maybe we can eventually get friendlier, but not now.

          Also, I agree with CL about getting mad. You have gone through the anger phase right? I find it very helpful and protective. In fact, going to my lawyer today I was getting mad on your behalf… how these assholes just think about themselves and leave us crying in closets hiding from our children….and because of what some idiot said to me on the Huffington Post. Seriously, I was so mad I figure it must have been the kind of mad that led Chump Lady to start this blog in the first place.

          Good luck.

          • Thank you. I appreciate You taking time out of your day. I am embarrassed to say I am guilty of finding stupid excuses to contact him as well so I need to shoulder blame. I have gotten angry but my desperate need to keep up any semblance of a family kept the anger at bay. He also won’t engage if I am angry. He sits there and acts calm so I wind up feeling like the crazy person I don’t mean to be so needy. I appreciate everyones time. Its just that 99.9 percent of people I know don’t understand.

        • Pearl.
          No contact is incredibly hard. I just received an email inviting comment because she is the victim. I now use a friend to run all replies by. Strictly business like , short and civil. Ignore any emotional stuff.
          This is all for you. It’s nothing about anyone else. No contact makes you stronger.
          Sometimes you want to contact him. Phone a friend. Write a letter but don’t post it to him.
          They deserve nothing so give them nothing.

      • Here’s the thing. I think he does want me to file. An that scares me. I know I am so much better than this that my kids deserve better. But in the end e still doesn’t want me and I can deal with that really but as others have commented losing the dream or the life you thought U had for good and for real is incredibly frightening to me

        • Pearl,
          Take a very deep breath and feel the love 🙂 Know that we all truly understand. I did the most stupid thing this weekend. I actually let my guard down around my stbxh and trust me, I regret it already. No contact, as much as possible with children, is the only way to go. I totally get where you are right now. But, hon, he is counting on your fear to keep you in his control. Please call a lawyer. It will make you feel empowered – yes, it’s frightening – but you will regain some of your power, and in time, you will feel so much better. I have a feeling your children are young. Mine were late teens at the time of my d-day, and I was desperately trying to keep the “family” together. When I finally got up the courage to leave and file for divorce, my youngest son looked at me and said…”Thank you, Mom. Maybe now we can be happy.” See, they know – regardless of how old they are, children know the difference between a happy and miserable household. Come out of the closet, Pearl. You have so much to offer. Don’t let that SOB steal any more of your light.

        • It is incredibly scary to lose the dream and what you thought you had. And to think about how the one person you thought you knew the best in the world, turns out you don’t really know at all. The only way I could get past it was to kind of ignore it 🙂 Ignore the fact that the future you will experience will most likely not look anything like you thought it would. That doesn’t mean it will be bad. In fact, it’s gotta be better than dealing with this shit. Instead I focused on the day to day, since most of my daily stuff wasn’t too different. And I would make small changes one at a time, things like repaint some rooms in my house to make it my own, sign up for a class that sounded fun, started going to yoga every week with a friend. I eventually took some bigger steps, like took the GMAT… hey, it’s just a test, no commitment, applied to school. I’m not an expert or anything, but that’s what worked for me. As Bill Murray once said “Baby Steps…”.

          As far as what to tell people, I’d just say you’re separated. And the closer friends you can say, “he cheated on me, that lying sack of shit :)”, the acquaintances shouldn’t ask (if they do you could just say you’re not ready to talk about it yet), the in-betweeners, just do what feels right. Actually in general I would say to just say what feels right to YOU. Don’t think about what you owe him, or what you owe your friends or whatever. Just think about yourself.

  • I tell people that we are not together any more and/or that he moved out. Some folks ask what happened and I’ll tell them that he chose someone else. My real friends and family know the torturous route I took to find this out for myself. I usually spare most folks the gory details. I don’t need to be connected to that story. I am not going to tell you that it was easy…I was in the hell you’re in throughout May and June. Wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. I have to remind myself to breathe. Lots of unknowns. Definitely not how you thought your life would turn out, but you do have endless possibilities now. Breathe. Make your kids dinner, eat with them, go to sleep. Tomorrow is another day. You are not alone.

    • That probably should read “buy the ‘you were not meeting needs.'” That’s the same bullshit as the “make the marriage a nice place to be.”

      When we got married, he was the one with the full-time job and I was in grad school. Now I work full-time, but since I’m still the one home earlier, I take care of all the household stuff. I get home, vacuum, take the dogs out for about an hour walk, and then cook supper. I watch television with him until he’s too tired and goes to sleep (typically around 9pm). Then I will read, play online games for a bit (no, not World of Warcraft, but similar games), or surf forums. I’m asleep about 90 minutes later.

      The marriage is a great place to be. He gets a live-in maid who keeps the bed warm! Sex? Not on weeknights. He’s always too tired, and he’s too tired unless he initiates it. Sheesh! Just whose needs are not being met?

      And you know, even if needs weren’t being met, or the marriage isn’t a good place to be–none of that is a valid reason for cheating. They’re all decent reasons for a divorce, but not for cheating.

      All this advice is just a way to tell the chump that it’s their fault their spouse “strays.”

  • I just located the actual LETTER the X wrote me – a study in self-pity. I think I’ll scan it in and send it to you Tracy. The X wanted to bang his neighbor and he had already discarded his relationship with me….. and he just didn’t want to be bothered with having to deal with any expression of anger or pain I would feel so it’s like he short circuited anything I might say by talking about how he had “failed at every turn”. Like failed to stop banging his neighbor, failed to consider how this might affect me, failed to be a man – but the whole thing was so backwards. At the time, I knew like how screwed up it was but I could never have put it into words. I just left….. and that was that.

    I interpret “180” as going NC – which I did – and I did it because I wanted out and I could see only one way to do that. I’m still counting days – I’ll soon have 4 solid months behind me.

    Has anybody gone from hurt to insanely angry??? For so long I was hurt, so hurt, I guess I still am, I think….. – but I’ve become so SO ANGRY – some days I feel like I can’t live in my own skin. Some of my friends say that’s a good thing….. that you have to go thru angry. I’ve never felt like this before in my life…… I have to admit to feeling very uncomfortable. I hope nobody catches me yelling in my car while I’m driving…. I’m amazed that I haven’t rear-ended someone.

    • Yes, my anger was astounding at one point and it went on for quite a long time. Now? I have my moments but because STBX can take ANYTHING and make it my fault (such as him forgetting something about the kids–it’s my fault for not reminding him, apparently) I can now laugh at him. He really is like a little kid, lashing out and furioius that he not only can’t get his way but that there are consequences for his bad behaviour. He’s a joke. Finally seeing that was enormously helpful.

  • The point being….. I feel like an insanely angry crazy woman. I could run into any and all of his family and/or friends and be nasty and hateful to all of them and not miss a beat. At least that’s what I think. I have bathroom mirror conversations with them….. In a whole new fun and different way, I feel like I’m losing my mind.

    • I have imaginary conversations with him, various members of his family and a number of other people quite often. No biggie. They used to be conversations of explanation, sort of ‘can’t you see what a dick he is?’. Now they’re ‘he’s an asshole, and you all are as well for not only enabling him but for somehow trying to blame this shit on me’. They happen less often these days but they definitely still happen,particularly in the car.

    • I’ve been REALLY nasty to him the last couple of times I saw him (he needed clothes that were still here…whatever) I didn’t speak to him at all when I was waiting for him to get out, now I can be having a conversation (?! Not really, but talking) to him and he’ll say something and I’m like “BAM”…
      Ex :
      Him: Said he had the flu
      Me: It’s probably AIDS

      Him: Have you seen the full bottle of vitamins I left?
      Me: Why? I have to buy the whores vitamins too?

      I swear I don’t plan it, it just pops out…and he DOES NOT like confrontation….he’s a big wimp. Kinda makes me laugh now, at least I can laugh…a little…

  • Fog machines….you have nailed it CL.

    My X , he of the fake legal separation and fake divorce filings , multiple fuck buddies, massages and hookers and every lie that can be possibly told just doesn’t get it.I am NC since 9 months( he texts me on my birthday,Christmas, new years etc) and to date he puts up these quotes saying how one should never ignore a person who loves you the most,how one can lose out on a person who cares for you the most, how he just made mistakes and that just means he made bad choices and that it just makes him human,how when one ignoresa person who misses you the most you give up on thesun and the moon blah blah blah.

    He lied to me about everything, every single fucking thing, and he thinks I will never find anyone who can love me more than he does!?

    Even now, its all about how he feels , how he is a good man, how I am being childish,and how I am losing out on a treasure.It’s astonishing how they just don’t get it.

    The maximum concession he makes is ” I made mistakes”.

    I told him,when you plan and plot and fly thousand miles to fuck women that’s not a mistake that’s a lifestyle.

    When your work takes you to a new city you get on adult friend finder and search for women available in that city that’s not a mistake that’s a choice you made.

    When you call up a pimp and set up for a hooker to come to your hotel room and after two such fuckfests you bypass the pimp and call up the hooker directly to save on the commission ,dude, that’s a fucking cold blooded business deal done with complete awareness.

    These are not bad mistakes, this is who you are.

    But he yet thinks, he is a good man and I am losing something precious.He just doesn’t get it, he is MARRIED, he is a serial cheater , he is into hookers and he is in relationships with various women at various stages and he yet thinks I am giving up on a man who ” loves me cares for me and misses me”.!!!!!

    I just wonder what makes him think he is such a prize catch?The wife..who stayed back eve afte finding out about a couple of affairs?The other women, who even if he texts them after six months , gladly come to fuck him in his hotel room when he is in their city? Past girlfriends who get in touch with him after years when they see him on some social networking site?

    Where does all this arrogance come from?

    As CL , once again nailed it, rewarding BAD BEHAVIOUR just encourages more of it.No woman has ever left him so his FOG MACHINE has never ever tripped.

    Bloody asshole.

  • Arnold, yes, you are absolutely right.

    A simple explanation but so difficult to wrap your head around.

    When persistent requests/demands didnt get me the truth i hacked into his mailbox.Its then that i found out that his entire story about divorce, including his separation(which actually was living in another city on account of work) and legal correspondence and divorce filings was fake and to top it he was having multiple affairs simultanepusly hookers etc etc.
    When i told him i was leaving he couldnt understand and started yelling “you are a prude and you belong to the Victorian Age.”*rolling eyes*. I said , ok leave aside the ethical and moral part of being in an affair with a married man, answer this..what do i get out of this relationship..any relationship with a married person is a dead end relationship..what do i get from this?.He screams back..”why is it always about you? You are so selfish”.

    Yeah , here i am you cheated on me wrt your marriage , wrt other women, wrt hookers and its i who am selfish?

    He kept screaming that he lied so much only because he loved me and wanted me in his life and he said he knew i wouldnt have got anywhere near him if i knew about his according to him i should love him all the more because he lied so much to have in his mind, the bigger the lie the bigger the proof that he loves me.

    Go figure.

    Someday, i think i will write a book on all the lies he has tld me.Well, i better make it an e book because there would be a minimum 10000 pages in there.!!!

    • Wow, just….Wow! That is some crazy s…! Mine said he’d always been that way – he’s never satisfied, sex means nothing to him with big puppy dog eyes and tears as if to see if I would comfort him and let it all go…and the sad part is I almost did…Thank God one of the whores sent a letter to my job about one of the other whores. That did it for me…I’m still in pain but at least I have this website, between CL and you all I at least know what direction is up, I’m not there yet but there IS an up I know it!

  • Oh God. I really needed to see this, like years ago.

    After my very first D-Day I stumbled upon that reconciliation friendly site. I hadn’t even been married a full year. Half of the people there advised me to “RUN” because I was newly married and childless. But the other half gave me the “no decisions for 6 months” advice.

    I, clueless, emotional, shocked and very embarrassed by the whole thing thought the standing still for at least 6 months sounded like a good idea. I mean, surely this can be fixed! This is a mistake! He was remorseful!

    What shitacular advice that was. I ended up just get more financially and emotionally entangled with him and became more blinded by the liar fog that followed him every where he went. Following that little bit of advice allowed me to stay limboing and spackling for YEARS. Many many wasted years.

    Staying put to give the cheater more time to mindfuck you into staying is the ultimate bad advice. The correct response to cheating is to leave. Period.

    • Thatgirl,

      Are we twins? Your story (at least what you’ve written above) is nearly identical to mine. One difference – there were no online sites early on in my marriage, nor did I own a computer. But I read, read, read about forgiveness, and letting go and waiting for things to work out. And they did….for a while. However, during another challenging period in our marriage when I suspected that a female friend was more than that, I frequented “Divorce Busters” page. Pick me dance is a huge theme there. I try to remind myself that the years are not entirely wasted, as I have a beautiful daughter. (And I grew a hell of a lot.) But I hate that she is stuck in the middle of this bullshit right now. Such a catch-22.

  • I think, almost invariably, that if you are dealig with a cheater that was in a log term affair or a serial cheater, you are dealing with a personality disorder. These are intractable. There is no sense waiting 6 months. These folks do not get better. This is who/how they are, fundamentally.
    I knew nothing of these before my second wife’s affairs. Now, when I look back at both my marriages, I realize that I was dealing with personality disordered wives.
    It helps to have a label for them and some understanding that there are people like this( quite a few, actually) in this world.
    They can be quite convincing that it is you who have the problem. They are relentless with their criticism and anger. They are practiced liars and smear campaigners. They enlist allies through lies. They try to isolate you from support. They need a constant source of validation, be it flattery, buying things, cheating etc. You can rarely please them after the idealization phase is over.
    I would really recommend that all BSs look into these to explain what they dealt with.
    People coming out of these relationships( and, many times it is due to the discoovery of infidelity) are shell shocked, doubting everything about themselves.
    To combat the doubt I recommend the following.
    First, educate yourself on these disorders and their signs/symptoms.
    Second, seek the support of others who have dealt with a disordered spouse.
    Third,take a look at the other relationships in your life, with family and friends and realize that n one else feels about you as the disordered person did.
    Fourth, go completely no contact withthe person, if possible. If you have kids together, minimize contact as much as possible.
    Fifth, start looking within to see what vulnerabilities and issues you have that caused you to overlook red flags.
    I really feel for the people that have been expoosed to these monsters.
    men, in particular, have seem to get less support , as there is some propoganda out there that women are less likelty to have one of these. If a women is diagnosed, it is usually with BPD or HPd, which , while toxic, is viewed somewhat more benignly than ASPD and NPD. This is due to society’s unwillingness to view these disordered women as just as evil as men, for some reason.
    Look into hypergamy and misandry, men.

    • And truth be told, Arnold – all of us women being left by cheater husbands – they are leaving for someone! ( And in the majority of cases it’s not another man! ) My cheater husband’s exit affair partner tore apart a family with two young daughters and left her husband.

      • I know I am dense but I will never understand the willingness to break up a family and hurt for the sake of your own supposed happiness. I may be old fashioned but I just don’t get it. Are people so desperate to find a mate that they can’t wait for a single person to come along??!

        • I think they are afraid of being alone, frankly. Rather than first resolving or dissolving the marriage that is supposedly causing all of their unhappiness, they jump immediately to into another relationship that they believe will provide the happiness they so desperately seek. And if they blow apart 2 families in the process, who cares? As long as they’re happy. Ugh.

      • Same here
        Tore apart his family in NZ. Youngest daughter now has some serious issues to overcome but oh no leave that up to his beautiful ex wife to deal with.
        He has now torn apart our family.
        How do they sit across a dinner table with any guilt with my boys in the future.
        I think cheaters have fucking light switches and they just turn off that feeling and just plow ahead as if nothing happened.
        They are mentally disordered
        In New Zealand we call it” not all the sheep are in the top paddock” – so true
        It’s like smashing plates at a Greek wedding- hell of a mess to try and clean up and you never get all the smashed china up off the floor

    • Well put Arnold, and as you may remember, I am living with the beast of beasts of Cluster B’sville.

      “They can be quite convincing that it is you who have the problem. They are relentless with their criticism and anger. They are practiced liars and smear campaigners. They enlist allies through lies. They try to isolate you from support. They need a constant source of validation, be it flattery, buying things, cheating etc. You can rarely please them after the idealization phase is over.”

      So very true. Ironic looking back now just over emails I sent, I would tell her how nice she looked/hot she was, how nice the photos you took were, I’m so proud of your promotion, great job with the presentation, can’t wait till you come home… I never got any even close to similar, never I miss you or love you (no problem saying that to POS co-cheater). My STBX has duped so may folks, by them saying “I can’t believe how calm and quiet STBX is, nothing rattles or upsets you”… Boy, they should have been in the home when she let her mask slip; Insane levels of disproportionate rage, passive-aggressive, childish impatience, narcissistic sabotage, double standards, parental alienation, severe gaslighting for years. All the while I thought it must be me, my fault, how can I stop being the problem cause surely no one, or her could be this bad or do such crazy, hurtful things? This women NEVER heard the word “NO” from anyone, and her entitlement rage was off the charts if you dare utter the forbidden nein.

      Now add in her year long+ affair, and these behaviors became supercharged, and I really thought I was loosing my mind. I was so depressed at one point, I did not step out of the house for eight days, and all I wanted to do was die. Her thoughts on depression was to say:

      “You have nothing to be depressed about, only people who have had with REAL trauma (ie 9/11 /combat) get depressed, stop with the woe-is-me, and feeling sorry for yourself crutch.”

      Even now with the rose colored glasses shattered, reality set in, full steam on the divorce, I still battle with the feelings you mention:

      “People coming out of these relationships( and, many times it is due to the discoovery of infidelity) are shell shocked, doubting everything about themselves.”

      These people are the true manifestation of remorseless, cruel, inhuman monsters, and there is NOTHING that can be done to change them, absolutely nothing. I only hope I am much better at seeing the red flags next time, and will have the strength of conviction to never let what happened repeat itself.

  • Jay
    Just think of the Who song- wont get fooled again.

    We learn so much after been hurt but it is so hard to pick the traits. You think you have each others complete trust. Even in my case after receiving the anonymous letter I just didn’t believe it. Maybe I should post it because others may immediately see it.
    Should have a competition to see if anyone can establish who wrote it
    Anyway we are better off without these people in our lives.
    How can the love of our life be so cruel. Don’t get me started on their entitlement!

    • Hey Baci,

      Thanks for the song to suggestion; for my STBX, maybe “Who are You”, is another good choice, especially the “who the fuck are you” bit… I’m so glad my detachment is very good, as the question is “do I give a shit who the fuck are you”?… Fuck no!

      Yeah the entitlement is absolutely unreal. Three days post D-day she was arranging the buying of a nearly $40k US SUV; Five days later she bought it with $10,000 US down, drawn from our joint checking account, and she still thinks this will not come up at the divorce settlement, and rages when I say it will. While I was in N/C not even three weeks ago, she sent me an email saying;

      “Darling Daughter and I would like to go to xxxxxx again for spring break. I need to know your feelings about this and won’t spend the money if it is an issue with you.”

      She was playing around to see what I would say, since this is another $2-$3000 she wants to spend, and since marital assets are “frozen” for all but basic expenses, she knows it’s wrong, but still wants to buy DD “love”.

      I wrote back a few days ago and told her:

      “Also, per the topic of the spring break vacation, I do not believe spending that money in light of our divorce proceeding is prudent.”

      This gets me:

      “Darling daughter, my mother and I are going to Florida for spring break. Do what you want as you always have and will? The money being spent is no different than has always been spent in past years when we have gone. Spin whatever you want to your attorney. If you want to be as childish as splitting hairs on dollars, we will make sure your new wardrobe, all the Amazon charges, car items etc. are calculated. Since money has all of a sudden become the highest priority for you, perhaps you should grow up and try to do something with your life instead of being jealous of others”.

      Pretty unreal huh? As if nothing in the world has changed, cause it hasn’t for her! She can turn it off and on like a switch, and she is now just a more obvious, selfish, hurtful, wanting to inflame parental alienation BITCH! How DARE I say no, and how did you like the first email asking how I felt as a phoney ploy to look civil… Mind you, I never once said or hinted I would tell my attorney, but I sure will now.

      OK, the wardrobe was a new winter coat, since I have not had one for almost 20 years, and made due with a thin leather coat with a broken zipper ever since it was given to me. New coat was $79.99. Also bought some dress shirts for interviews (remember I’m unemployed), some khaki slacks, a few inexpensive sweaters, and new undies and socks. Maybe $250? Amazon charges? Not sure, as the whole family uses what is purchased there, aside from STBX Kindle downloads. Car stuff; yeah, my 1994 car needed a new fuel filter for $8, a trans fluid change for $15, and a $15 oil change all of course done by myself. Her nearly $40,000, 2012 SUV has a full warranty, and full routine service.

      Still to this day, she can not say the word affair, continues to gaslight and openly lie about it, and her workplace affair is still unknown… But not for long. It’s going to be scorched earth for Mrs. perfect image family gal, and POS, “great guy” co-cheater scum. Already sent a trial balloon, it got me to a much higher person up the chain, and these two nearly CEO types are going to feel some real fucking pain, right where it hurts them when the time is right.

    • Baci, he told me who wrote the anonymous letter I got because he was furious at her! When I asked in stunned disbelief if he was F-ing her too he said “Not anymore” WTF???!!! That one had me reeling for days.

  • Just keep your interactions to a minimum, Jay. A simple n and no further discussion. One goes nuts trying to reason with the disordered. And , keep documenting all her spending and yours.
    Someday, this will get in front of a more rational fact finder.

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