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Dear Chump Lady, Explain this guy…

Dear Chump Lady,

My ex boyfriend from many years ago is getting married this year. He advised me of this by sending me a message through face book. I am not sure why he felt the need to tell me this since I have not kept contact with him. I have avoided his phone calls and never returned his messages and I would not go to see him when he would stop by my work place and ask for me. Why would he do this?

Also,  we have a mutual friend and I found out that he never proposed to his fiance, nor gave her a ring until six months later. His reason for that was he did not want to use his money to purchase the ring and that he was waiting for his tax return, and would use that money. He makes a 5 digit salary and lives with his parents, so it’s not that he does not have money saved.

Also, for their wedding he chose the reception hall and the church. Since he works on commission, he said to his fiance that they would not have their honeymoon after their wedding as it is a busy period for him at work. He is looking to buy a million dollar house, and since he will have to pay the mortgage he makes that a reason to have to work long hours . His fiance did offer to help pay for the mortgage and he replied by stating,” how are you going to help?” She makes 40k a year, so to him that is peanuts.

He does not use the word “we” in his conversations when thinking about planning something. He does not call his fiance by her name but refers to her as “her” or “she” when talking about her. You would never be able to tell that he is getting married since on his facebook page there are no pictures of him and his fiance together or pictures of her. A girl tagged him on a picture of herself, and the people that he is friends with on facebook are past women that he has had one night stands with prior to his current relationship. If his fiance had not asked him to remove photos from his facebook, which were of him and his previous girlfriend he would not have done so himself. He admitted to cheating on his previous girlfriends but stated that “he will try to change it, but not sure how.”

He only sees his fiance once a week and does the same activity (going to the movies) with her. He still has his profile on the singles site but is hidden to the public to avoid his fiance from finding out. He states that he is not doing anything wrong, just flirting online.

My question is, why is he getting married when his behaviours are that of a single guy and not that of one whom is in love and committed to his partner?


Dear Curious,

That’s not the question, is it really? You dodged a bullet. There  — THAT’s your answer. He sucks. Internalize it. Now stop with the intense, microscopic study of your ex-boyfriend. You certainly know a lot of minutia about his life, right down to how much his fiance makes a year, their reception hall, and his dating profiles.

Here’s some questions you didn’t ask, but I’ll answer anyway.

Why am I fixated on this idiot? Answer: because you don’t trust that he sucks. If you trusted that he sucked, you’d leave him the hell alone and go truly NC with him. That  means not picking up the phone when he calls, or seeing him if he stops by work, or listening to a “mutual friend” prattle on about him. NC isn’t just not initiating contact. It’s not RESPONDING to contact. So you’re half way. Keep going!

It’s like you need the evidence — the Facebook flirting, the shitty way he treats his fiance — to convince yourself that he’s not all that and a bad of chips. He’s buying a “million dollar” house. So, you want to be married to that? You want to be that girl? In the big house with the ring, and the cheater boyfriend who calls you “Her”?  If you pity her enough (behind her back) will the obsession wear off?

Should I tell her he’s a cheater? Yes. Send her a link to his dating profile. Somehow you can see something not open to the public. Maybe you should share that password with her. Spare her the humiliation and wasted life and hand-engraved wedding invitations. Be a friend.

And finally, I’ll answer the question you asked — why does he act like a single guy when he’s about to get married? Because he wants to eat cake. Because he’s an immature, narcissistic, abusive asshole. Because he wants all the perks of married life — a faithful wife to pick up his underwear and contribute to his 401K — and all the joys of fucking around on her. Because he sucks.

Put some distance there, Curious. Tell that poor woman. And stop being curious. We all know what he is. And you do too. Time to tell the fiancé and clue her in.



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  • Curious,

    You, asked: My question is, why is he getting married when his behaviours are that of a single guy and not that of one whom is in love and committed to his partner?

    Answer: This guy is a major cake-eating narcissist. Why does a narcissist get married and have fake commitments?

    1) Because the appearance of ‘being married’ will make him look better in the working world- everyone will think he must be stable cause he’s a married guy. Narcissists LOVE sporting the image to fool people because it ‘gets’ them something.

    2) He uses the “I” language ALL the time in his speech. If he never uses ‘we’ THAT is a big clue that something is wrong with him. The guy is getting married and that does or should change how you act, speak etc. in terms of how your see your place in the world partnered up. He views the world through “I” and never “We” and this is going to carry over into marriage, love and all things financial. HUGE red flags! My STBXH did that A LOT.

    3) I would forward your entire e-mail what you wrote to CL to the fiancée. She will either ignore it or not. Better yet, forward her all the printed responses that this post gets and tell her what a wonderful blog this is. It could save her A LOT of heartache!

    4) Finally, don’t think about this guy too much. The only kind thing I would do for humanity is warn potential women who come around him. You’ll at least be doing them a huge favor.

  • Curious, it appears to me that you are trying to convince yourself that he is not into his fiancée.


    Instead of psycho analyzing him please analyze why you are doing this.

    That will get him out of your head.

  • Say AMEN you dodged a bullet. But I can understand your curiosity. We think Maybe they will grow up! What does she see in him? Especially if you live in a smaller town. You should let the fiance know (anonomously if you think best) And yes send CL’s letter she nailed it so did Hope49

  • Eh, he’s like a train wreck you can’t look away from. I get it. It’s shocking that anyone would behave that way!

    My xH was a little like him. Three kids later, I didn’t dodge a bullet, but the bleeding has finally stopped.

    And, like you, I somehow can’t look away–from a safe distance.

    • Hey Stephanie – I so need to hear that the bleeding stops – I don’t know what’s wrong with me that this guy still has real estate in my head…. that he drifts through my head with such regularity – unless I give my thoughts something constructive to do, they wander back to him. Amazing how many thoughts a person has in a single day, or hour or minute.

  • If you send an email can it be traced in any way back to me?my boss is a serial cheater.he has been doing this for of his conquests was a previous employee too. But he thinks we don’t know.she left work long ago. He is married for 8 years. Has been cheating with numerous women for over 12 years.even when dating wife. They lived in different states then. We reall want to tell her. Or at least make her not be so naïve. But for fear of finding out we have to remain do we do this? What’s the best way forward. I think the wife has no idea or just doesn’t have proof. Do you think we should even get involved?

    • Couldn’t you set up a throw-away e-mail account using a fake name–Yahoo or Gmail, or something–and send an e-mail from a computer that does not belong to anyone who works for your boss? I would think that’d be nearly impossible to trace or prove.

      • Yes. that would work, but use a friend’s computer (not related to the business at all) or one in a public place (like the library) using either yahoo or gmail. You can set up a phoney email in no time at all. That you can do at home and then you can sign in–anywhere as those are internet based emails. totally anon. totally untraceable to you. go get the fucker. and while you’re at it, send it anon to the state licensing board so that they can do an investigation and hopefully get his license to practice medicine revoked. arrogant prick!!!

    • Hope some IT folks weigh in. I don’t know, but I’d tell if you can. Also, I’m thinking you should tip off human resources. The guy is a walking sexual harassment liability.

      • We work in a private medical practice. This guy is the doctor.we are his no human resources to tipp off. Hence I think he thinks he can get away. Besides another thing is if we tell her anon and she tells him that may tip him off and he may be extra careful or take his affairs more underground? On the other hand we don’t know if telling her is gona really hurt her?DILEMA!!

        • Did you ever think of a Labor Relation Board in your state for this. You have to be well documented but you could go and talk to them. I have worked in small one man offices in the past but thank goodness none of this sexual harrassment stuff came up.

      • as an “IT” person – just a word of warning – if a person is determined enough, most email activity can eventually be traced back to a source. I only say this because the cheater is a doctor…… presumably someone with substantial means and if he feels narcisistically (sp?) wounded enough….. would he go the distance? I’m just thinking of how venomous the exposed cheater feels – like people have recounted on this site and do you run the risk of exposure. What about just and old fashioned anonymous hand written or typed note? That would certainly get my attention!!!

        • I wrote a response above which was probably not in the best place. She could open an internet yahoo or gmail account and then go to a library or something like that and send it from there. The IP address would of course belong to the library, so no way to prove WHO sent it.

        • Funny you should say that, I was talking to my doctor toady about some (non life threatening) surgery that I was scheduling for but now must cancel for now due to the F-ing POS, and my doctor was sympatizing with me but clearly said..”be careful, you don’t want to piss off a N too bad”. That’s been on my mind since day 1 – if he was this sneaky all along what MAY he be capable of?

  • Chump Lady–for some reason this post has really struck me. It’s helped me get yet another angle on how disordered my ex really is. It is good to read other people’s disturbing stories, then see similar patterns in the ex and realize how messed up he is.

    Thanks for this blog!!

  • YOu aew fixated on him , as CL says. That is not healthy.
    As for the engagement ring, IMO, guys should not shell out for them until women start doing the same thing. Why should anyone shell out thousands for a ring with nothing in return? It is an old, sexiat practice.

    • Yeah, I used to think so too, Arnold. Until I got a pretty ring. Sorry. Shoot me. I love my engagement ring. Superficially girly as charged.

      (FWIW, didn’t have one in marriage 1 and in marriage 2 the asshole, unbeknownst to me RECYCLED his ex’s ring! All to say, not only is my ring pretty, and my husband picked it out — it means a lot to me.)

      • WOW CL! That’s pretty bad, recycling your ex’s wedding ring for your next wife. When did you find that out? Before the marriage, during or after?

        • I found out after DDay2 (shortly after DDay 1) when I contacted his ex-wife #2. She filled me in on a lot about him. They were together 11 years. SHE asked me about the ring — because it was beyond my imagining he would recycle it. She described it to a T, and I was OMG that’s your ring! He got it back in the divorce over some debt they were arguing about and she didn’t want it. Who could blame her?

          Btw, the ring later disappeared. A dear friend helped me finance my divorce until my settlement came through, and I gave her the ring as collateral (which she didn’t want). And then she lost it in a house move a couple months later!

          I figured that was good karma. I think it would’ve been bad luck for anyone to use it as a wedding ring.

          • This gives some credence to what I’ve maintained that the prospective next wife should have lunch with the xw… imagine her going. THAT’S MY FUCKING RING YOU’RE WEARING! I guess no one actually does that though. We truly believe (at the time) that what we see is what we’re getting. ugh.

        • No Arnold. I’m a chump. I moved to another state with him and paid off $17,000 of his personal debt so we could get a better mortgage rate. More than the ring was worth. Got about 2/3s of what I lost financially back in my divorce settlement, which I figured was pretty damn fortunate.

          Was fucked financially from the experience, but I was even CHUMPIER in my first divorce settlement (paid HIM for the house, didn’t ask for 10 years of his pension, accepted less than baseline child support, waived any rights to SS — I was that desperate to get out).

          If you want to argue dowry, Arnold — most brides’ families pay for the wedding, which is a LOT more than a ring.

          • I am against the practice of the bride’s parents paying for the wedding, as well.
            I am all for gifts, but these practices, the ring and the wedding payment, make no sense.

        • As a man whose wife cheated and is now in reconciliation, I can see the point about rings. It is old fashioned about as old fashioned as a dowry. I have been following Chump lady’s blog. At first I respected her, but after seeing how unreasonable she becomes when someone disagrees with her POV, I have lost respect for her. You know what they say about people who can’t be reasoned with because they think only their POV is the only correct one. Don’t bother to argue with her. She says paying off a loan is the same as a dowry. It’s not, but you will never be able to reason someone like a woman who likes the ego kibbles she gets by having syncophantic followers who believe she has all the answers as if she were God. I have been viewing her blog, since seeing her post at huff pro, and she’s now a laughing stock and huff pro because people now see her as someone who simply removes posts that disagree with her POV. Indeed, she will likely remove this one, or others, if I stick around too long. This woman is holding herself up as an expert because she was chumped. Yet she has no commensurate degrees. She predicts the future, yet she is does not have a degree as a futurist. You know what psychologists says about people who hold themselves up as experts without the proper credentials, or who need to keep only those around who agree with her. So I agree that an expensive engagement ring is as old fashioned as a dowry and I would encourage my sons to find a woman that sees the POV, but will be willing to compromise in some way, perhaps by settling for less expensive diamond, or exchanging betrothal gives of equal value.

          BTW: My marriage is better since my wife cheated and we have gone to counseling. My life has improved in many ways and so has my marriage and life for my wife. Through counseling I could see my own faults and what may have led my wife to cheat. She is now remorseful and working really hard. It was the immature approach to try to solve problems by cheating, but she only did it once and I can see she truly regrets it. Now chump lady’s situation is different, I have my thoughts on why at age 35 she is divorced twice and twice married similar type men, but not being a psychologist, i will keep those thoughts to myself unless chump lady asks me to share them with her

          • Well David, your post appears here just fine. As does Vicki’s and many others who don’t agree with me.

            I’m glad your life has improved after infidelity, and if that’s the case I have no idea why you’d want to read at a “leave a cheater” site.

            For the record, I’m not 35. I’m 46. My first divorce was when I was 34 after 9 years of marriage. And my second marriage (to a cheater) lasted less than a year before I filed for divorce (when his other life was revealed). I’ve been remarried for almost three years, very happily. You want to surmise about my mental state? Go ahead. Chumpy, codependent, idiotic. I’m neither proud of two divorces, nor ashamed of them. I learned from it, and what I learned I share here. Using my time, money, and resources. You don’t have to agree with me, but then again, you don’t have to read either if what I say upsets you.

            I’ve not banned anyone from this site (although comments occasionally wind up in the spam filter inadvertently), until last week. I cut off Sara8 as I felt she was being disruptive and posting manically. My blog, my rules. I’m no different than any other blog or forum. HuffPo moderates its comments before they go up — I don’t do that. So frankly, I’m more open than most.

            But I do have a stated POV, it’s no secret. Best of luck to you in your reconciliation David. I truly hopes it works out for you.

          • If your marriage is so great and so much better because your wife cheated David, what are you doing on this site then? Surely you wouldn’t be reading about other people’s pain, anger, devastation, shock and feelings of chumpdom? Surely you would be on Huffpost extolling how your wife’s cheating, lying and deception improved your marriage and your lives?
            Hey, I am truly happy for you that reconciliation worked for you – really, really happy for you and I say that in all sincerity. That seldom works, but good for both you and your wife.
            But to attack CL and make inferences on her character as to why she has been married and divorced twice at age 35 is judgemental, mean and out of place. I assume you have been married once and cheated on once. Well, bully for you .
            Most people, including CL, have made ourselves vulnerable on this site by sharing some of our stories. It comes from a place of intense pain and angst David. Some of us use this site to ask advice, to vent, to share so that we are not totally alone in our darkest hours of devastation. If things are so wonderful and great for you due to your wife`s cheating, then don`t waste your time here – stay on Huffpost then and advise others how great cheating has been for your lives.
            I have found CL`s post helpful, compassionate, filled with common sense and down to earth. She says it like it is for most of our situations on this site. We`re chumps. Because we`re chumps we don`t seem to see what the majority of cheaters are and want to believe in – against all odds. We want to believe in them and that our reconciliation is going to work. Sadly David, it doesn`t usually work. I say that from sad experience from a 31 year union that was happy and very affectionate. CL and many others says that from their experiencse. I think perhaps you are being somewhat judgemental from the lofty height of your happy reconciliation.
            I do wish you luck David and sincerely hope your reconciliation lasts. I say that not from a bitter or facetious place – I do hope it lasts for you. You obviously don`t need to be on this site attacking people`s characters then.

            • I find it wholly incomprehensible why someone would get on someone else’s blog and bash them mercilessly and totally without provocation whatsoever. Bullying, I think is what they call it. If you don’t like what she says or what she does, then DON’T READ IT and keep your nasty, condescending, inappropriate, ignorant remarks to yourself!
              BTW, I know of many so-called highly trained professional shrinks who SUCK—- BIG TIME!!!
              I happen to love CL’s POV, and feel that she’s about as spot on as a person can be. And she’s helped me and a lot of other people, too that is… RECONCILE, what the fuck just happened to them! This Tsunami of transgression and betrayal by the ONE person we never dreamed could/would even THINK of such a thing! For me, that was it. (after numerous discoveries of years of infidelity— LIES!)
              If you found a way to make it work, great for you! I just don’t think its nice (or constructive in any way) to rub it in like we’re a bunch of idiot losers and you’re not and then continuing to bash the person who started this great blog.

          • Most of the “credentials” re infidelity seem bogus to me.
            And, to describe your wife’s cheating as merely an immature way of handling things seems is unrealistic. Immature?Puhleeeeze.

          • I don’t think you can make too much of having been divorced twice. Some of these disordered types do a great job at maskong during courtship.
            Until you start researching thhe cluster b’s, the signs are pretty hard to see/ Even then they are not easy.

          • David, you are wasting your time reading and posting here. Good for you that your reconciliation is true. Why do you have to prove to Chump Lady and everyone else here that it is? Why do you care what we all think? After all, the motto of this site IS, “Leave a cheater, gain a life.” Your post was just plain rude and really pointless. Don’t like what Tracy has to say? Then don’t read here. It really is that simple.
            And David? It does not take a number of BS degrees to attain common sense. Life experience can teach that.
            All the best to you and your wife in your reconciliation.

          • The “my marriage is better ” claim reminds me of some old guys(like me) I talk to at the gym. They claim they are now in the best shape of their lives.
            I am thinking “well, hell, you must never have been in very good shape in your youth”.

    • Arnold, interesting you should say that. When STBX and I got engaged, he asked me if I wanted him to get a ring. And I said (and I really meant it) that I thought there were so many other more important things that the money could be used for. My sentiments were yours – if he were to get me a ring, I should also get him something. Neither of us made much money, so we purchased a set of diamond studs and we each wore one as our “engagement ring.”

  • There is no explanation for his behavior. At least no explanation that will make sense to anyone who is not disordered. I think that is part of the problem with people like this. To a normal person, their behavior makes no sense or simply evidences a really bad person. And since it is hard to believe that someone could be fucked up, you look for some rational and benign reason for the behavior. As the Chump lady says “trust the suck.”
    My spouse (we are separated), spent the entire day asking me to go to an afternoon party at the house of a friend of his, despite the fact I kept blowing him off. Then at night, he snuck away on a date which he won’t admit to. Try to make rational sense of that. There is none. He truly sucks.

  • “My ex boyfriend from many years ago is getting married this year”.

    I stopped reading right there. Ex-boyfriend getting married? Next.

    • Agree. Knowing all this seems stalkerish. This young woman is way too invested in learning about this guy. Sounds nuts.

      • Normally I would agree with you, however, HE is the one who seems to be a stalker, first contacting her first on fakebook and then repeatedly via the phone, so I dunno, maybe this is a difference between how a man or woman would react, but I would def want to find out what the real deal is… but then, I am a bit of a stalker. lol i prefer detective, because I am just the naturally curious sort. However, yes, at this point I think she should send an anon email to the fiance. I’m not sure if the original person is the “good doctor” or a different person, but in any case, they both sound like douchbags. Better for her to know what she’s dealing with than years down the line after she’s shitted out a couple of babies… :[

      • Yeah, I cut off everything and I mean EVERYTHING – No way for me to learn anything about what’s going on with him or vice versa. It takes some time to wrap your brain around how comprehensive NC is (for me at least) – not just not responding, but cutting off any news update sites…. and of course, goes without saying, never initiating any contact. If my X has ever tried to contact me again, he will run into a wall of silence – blocked emails, blocked phone numbers and friends that have had to be cut off. I’m sorry about at least one friend….. I really really liked her, but, I was desperate to move on and I had to make the decision that anybody in my life that might be friends with the “new” couple could not be part of my life. I acknowledge that if they were, it would just be too tempting to press them for details.

        Off with their heads….. so to speak. 🙁

  • Well, I agree with most of the posters thus far on a few accounts. First, why do you care so much about the whats and the hows and the whatevers of this guy and his fiance? I can honestly say that I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what my ex is doing, with whom, why, for how long and what color shirt he’s wearing. It seems you are paying a bit too much attention to him here….why?

    Second–tell the fiance only if you really think it’s the right thing to do. If you think it’s going to change anything, you’re wrong. She may and may not believe you. In all likelihood, if he’s as professional as you say he is, where he’s got her believing that he’s a prize with all of this bullshit that any normal person would run screaming from—she will not believe you and will probably turn on you. Think about what you want out of that scenario.

    Third. I did the whole “anonymous email” thing to a friend’s wife, who I knew was cheating on her for about a year. I cannot tell you how badly that turned out. The problem with it was that she wanted SPECIFICS–I’m not sure why knowing “He fucked her 4 times in the truck on the way to pick up your daughter from school, on 5/6, 12/3 ….blah blah blah” means more than…..”Listen. We all know that he’s fucking soandso, we see him kissing her, we see him hugging her, we see them holding hands and introducing one another as “SO”, we see them disappear and then reappear disheveled…”

    She went a little nutty….cut us all off. Called me “chickenshit” (my anonymous-ness wasn’t a big hit with her, i suppose) for not calling her personally and telling her what I knew. She didn’t know that he was friends with his fuckbuddy, but for some reason, it was okie dokie with her that he spent hundreds of hours on a cellphone that SHE pays for–talking to the fuckbuddy. I let it go. Better her than me, stuck with this asshole, if that’s how she wants to act.

    He talks about his wife like that too—“she” and “my daughter’s mother”—it’s a classic way of dehumanizing someone. If you don’t think of someone as a person, with a name–you can do anything to them without remorse. It’s something the military does with soldiers, too….and you see how absurdly well that turns out.

    The fake email thing—you can do it from your own home computer, if you use Tor or something like that–it changes your IP address randomly to pretty much anyplace in the world. But it’s a pain. Using a public library is a good idea–but the problem with some of them is that you have to put your library card ID into the system before you are allowed to log on. They know who sends what and where you go. Just be careful with what you say, how you say it, and if she says “Leave me alone.” Leave. Her. Alone. The last thing you want is to get into trouble with the law for harassing her while trying to help her.

    Good luck. Personally, I think you should put this asshole behind you and not give him (or her) another thought. You have a lot to look forward to—NOT being involved with his drama.

  • I think that CL’s no contact rule is a bit like going cold turkey from a heroin addiction (something I have not experienced but I’m daring to use as a metaphor). If you still are curious, then you haven’t really kicked the habit of riding the roller coaster with a narcissist. So, NC is a good thing.

    I’m not as sure about telling about the affairs. Again, true to my rule, I leave it up to others to decide. But I think maybe it’s better to leave that one alone. I doubt that, as the “ex,” you’ll be believed anyway. It’ll just be explained away by the N as jealousy/resentment/harassment. It also represents one more continuation of your involvement with that person. Anyway, that’s my two cents. Folks can do what they think is right. I just see this as another chump temptation to try to “save” someone or to punish/do justice, and working on ourselves is the way to go.

    Again, my two cents. Follow your own gut and your own conscience. But, above all, read up on narcissistic personality disorder and get away from people who have that cluster of behaviors, and get away as fast as you can!

    • you are absolutely right, David. I was just going to add, however, that if she does tell her, it must be totally anon and very brief because as you said, if she thinks its from an old girlfriend, the credibility goes straight out the window.

      • I would think that if it comes anonymously that credibility goes out the window as well.

        I think the original poster should totally detach (she’s WAY too interested in the machinations of her exboyfriend). Look, even if someone is pestering you, you just shut it down. You don’t read, you don’t respond, you keep it professional if there must be contact. The original poster must enforce her own boundaries with respect to this guy.

        This is just looking for trouble, honestly.

  • great advice Abby! I think its the right thing to do, to tell her anonymously– only. one email. only. you have done your duty. your conscious is clear. and what she does with the truth is up to HER. and very likely as Abby pointed out, she WILL ignore it; won’t believe you (after whoever you are, you MUST have ulterior motives to be spewing out such “lies”) and go with what she KNOWS. UGH. But again, not your problem and don’t make the mistake I did and try to keep on savin’ her not very grateful ass. Some of these guys are so slick, (aka: sick) they even believe their own lies.
    The primary reason (amongst others) that I believe that an anon tip off is the right thing to do is that if he’s messin’ around prolifically, he’s putting her health at grave risk and I think that she has a right to know that!

    • I dunno, “warning” the other girl seems like another excuse to not be in NC with him to me.

      Look, if she were truly in NC, she would have no idea what is going on in his life, whether he was still a suck-butt or had found redemption, and so on. It is only because she is filing away details of his life which she ought not be doing that this dilemma has been posed, so you have build that into any advice.

      Were she in a relationship with him and were he fooling around with a married woman, I would say by all means tell OWs husband, but it’s not her job to police this guy the rest of his life, and she should have ended contact with him and close that filing cabinent under the seal of “lessons learned”. End of story.

      My grandpa used to say, “there are few victims, but there are lots of volunteers”, and she is still volunteering by keeping track of his life. As for his new fiance, if she can’t read all the red-flags of his suck-buttness, then what good do you think an ex-gf or anonymous source sending her something is going to do?

      Leave the drama behind and move on, I say.

      • So sensible, Time Heels.

        I agree with every word you’ve said.

        I know that we always project ourselves into the betrayed party’s position, because we’ve all been there at one time or another, and we all wish WE had known. But I think that we would do well to heed Time Heel’s point, which is we have to really take each individual situation into consideration. There is something just off about the situation as the original poster is describing it.

        At the end of the day, I think that a person who is being betrayed is much better off having to come to the realization on their own, because even when the truth is staring people in the face in terms of betrayal, they often go deep into denial (see David’s posting above for proof of how that looks, years into “reconciliation”); hearing from some anonymous source or “ex” girlfriend that your partner is a cheater may get you thinking to look, but I almost feel like it is more of an opportunity for the cheater to gaslight.

        I always feel that these exes or former other people or whatever are approaching this “telling the betrayed spouse” from a position of hoping to lever their way into the relationship rather than clearing conscience or helping set the betrayed partner on the path to knowledge. Of course I’m cynical.

        • K,
          Not sure what her motive is, but NOT telling is wasting the fiancee’s years of her life. She will invest herself in a sham of a marriage and could have children with this loony tune. I don’t think it is right to let this poor woman find out on her own accord. Could be years before she found out the truth, while wasting her youth on a complete schmuck. She is marrying someone who sold her on the myth and illusion of who he PRETENDS to be while he is with her. The mask. Then while her back is turned, he is a sneaky, dirty, rotten cheater and liar.
          Come on people, ask yourselves–if you were this fiancée, wouldn’t you want to know what was really going on?? Would you still want to marry this guy??? No effing way!!
          Curious, It is crazy you know so much about this guy, get the heck away from him, he is nuts!!! BUT for the sake of helping, freeing and empowering his fiancée?? Most definitely tell her!!!! Anonymously!!! Send her links to dating profiles if he has them. And in the email, express your sympathy, but tell her to investigate herself.
          Your conscience will be clear, Curious. And the fiancée can make her own choices from there. But to raise her awareness in the truth of situation is what matters here. Good luck!

          • I respectfully disagree, Rose. I think that a betrayed partner is likely to go further into denial if an (obviously interested) non-objective third party interjects to tell some truths. Maybe I’m wrong, but it is just the way I feel about it.

            Moreover, I think doing the anonymous thing can be perceived as (or easily portrayed as) “someone crazy or jealous or crazy and jealous trying to break us up, honey, of COURSE I’m not cheating on you…when would I have the time? If they really had proof, why would they be anonymous??”

            And I have a big issue with the concept of telling truths anonymously, anyway. On principal it seems cowardly.

            But that’s my belief system. I’m not imposing it on others. Just sharing. 🙂

          • Rose, I agree with you. I wish someone had told me. I vote for the Golden Rule. Preferably, I think someone should be told in a real way, by phone, email with a name, with evidence, in person. But I usually always err on the side of telling and then detaching ASAP.

            The OW told me, for reasons that weren’t pure. To bust up my marriage (she eventually succeeded). I’m still VERY glad she told me. And she’s still an asshole, but that’s another story.

            • Yes, she may very well go further into denial. I know someone who did just that. But, the way I see it is that I wish to God someone had told me! I wish the OW or his confidante half-way across the world had grown a conscience. but no… what fun would that be?

              If a BS is told and refuses to even consider that she might be hearing the truth, then IMO, she’s an idiot.

              I don’t know if there’s a “best way.” It all sucks. Its going to devastate the hell outta this person and I think its best to keep it short and stick to the facts. and then do not ever contact them again!

              Now I AM crazy, lol. (but was not trying to break them up. I was trying to get her to wake up!) I went to great lengths to get evidence by making up phony profiles and then getting this predator creature on IM… And he sang like a canary, that boy did. Then, I sent it all to her. She knew it was him, but she still couldn’t believe that he would actually do the unspeakable things he was doing. I truly feel sorry for her, but she’s very happy with her fucktard.

              Oh, and they weren’t actually married at the time.

              That happened three years later. (!) some people are just masochists, ya know.

              Oh, how do I know that he’s not reformed? ha! don’t ask. but I know for certain that he’s not.

              One day, something else will happen. And then she will realize that it was all very, very real. very sick and very real. oh well…

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