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Stay Married to a Cheater… by Law

Any of you poor chumps live in the states of North Carolina or Georgia? Better leave those cheaters FAST, before this insane piece of legislation goes into effect — mandatory waiting periods to “save your marriage” — TWO YEARS in North Carolina, (a year in Georgia). You read that right. Two fucking years. I think certain felons get lesser sentences than the chumps of North Carolina.

Who is responsible for this fresh hell? Beverly Willet and her merry band of lobbyists “The Coalition for Divorce Reform.” Sounds benign enough — who among us who has suffered a divorce wouldn’t like to see the process reformed? Men who pay alimony to cheating ex-wives? Stay at home mom chumps who got fucked over in a no fault state? Would you like a more equitable division of assets and custody that takes such injustices into account?

Not gonna happen. Ms. Willet and her fellow freaks would like to see you STAY MARRIED. See the problem isn’t the sex addiction or the financial fraud or the emotional abuse. No, you just don’t know your own mind there Missy! The problem is your communication skills. And clearly you don’t feel enough GUILT about your children.

The Act also extends the current one-year waiting period to two. During that time, all couples would take be required to complete courses on improving their communication skills and conflict resolution. Those with minor children would also be expected to take a four-hour class on the impact of divorce on children. The spouse seeking to divorce must give a formal notice of intent to divorce in order to trigger commencement of the waiting period. Statutory protection for victims of domestic violence would remain untouched.

Oh goodie! An exemption for spousal abuse! If you get battered, gee, you get a Get Out of Jail Free card. Oh, but hang on… no, not really. It’s only if you’ve gotten a criminal conviction against your abuser. Good luck with that! And how long does that take to wind it’s way through the legal system? Months? Years?

If you’re married to a cheater, drunk, addict, gambler, or other flavor of abuser — I’m sorry chumps, you’ll just have to stay married and grit your teeth. Do it for the kids! Your misery and chumpdom are so improving for them. Are you a young woman? Is your baby clock ticking? Let’s waste two years of your fertility while we’re at it staying married to a loser! Or better yet, have another kid with the dickwad! The state would LOVE to support your kid… oh but maybe not… lots of cuts to aid to dependent mothers… Hmm. Perhaps this was an oversight.

So who is this Beverly Willet and why does she want to keep you married? Well, Ms. Willet, like you, was a chump. Her husband left her for another woman, and instead of divorcing him, or granting him a divorce, she held the whole thing up for 5 years in court. Apparently with the notion that this would fill Mr. Willet’s heart with warm fuzzies and he’d recommit to his marriage. Maybe a little mandatory communication course could have changed his mind. Failing that, perhaps a trip to a Siberian re-education camp. I don’t know. But anyway, Mr. Willet moved across state lines to New Jersey and got his divorce there.

As much as I dislike cheaters, and pull for chumps, I can’t help but notice how clearly Beverly Willet aligns with Dr. Simon’s description of divorcing someone with a character disorder.

For the CD, it’s not about acknowledging failure in the marital relationship, separating, and moving on. Rather, it’s about punishing, destroying, or making someone else’s life miserable for daring to say “no” or declare an end to an abusive situation. Character assassination becomes the norm. The CD will arm their attorneys with examples of their ex’s “questionable behavior,” which are amplified to such an extent to paint the worst possible picture of the person.

Perhaps even more important is the ordeal the CD wants to be sure the ex-partner goes through. They’ll bring out such big cannons with their lawyer, that the other party has to spend much time, energy, and money either defending themselves or just trying to survive the ordeal that they have no time, energy, or money left to advocate for a stronger position.

So the remedy to a bad marriage is being forced to keep enduring it? Beverly Willet failed to keep her husband married to her by legal intimidation. So now she’d like to try this shit on the nation instead? Don’t you DARE leave ME!

Yeah, that makes for happy marriages.

Write your congressman, chumps!

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  • You have got to be effing kidding me! So I would have to be married to my husband for two more years while he carried on his cheating ways? Even though he told the counselor and I in marriage counseling that it would ‘be too hard to give her up’. Her being is freaking girlfriend of course! During this two year period, would the court put a lock around his crotch so he didn’t keep banging his skanky whore? If that’s the case, then I’ll be voting for this legislation but I don’t see that happening.

    And my state mandates a parenting through divorce class. I attended it and it was heartbreaking. We watched videos of what divorce does to the kids. Depressing shit. I’m sure my husband’s view of the class was, eh, the kids will be fine. The court can’t train someone to be a better parent even if they go to a class. http://dowehavetotellthekids.blogspot.com/2013/04/winning.html

  • As a fellow survivor of a marriage where my partner initiated multiple infidelities, I also find this legislation abhorant.

    I can’t imagine going through crap 2 years longer than I put myself through it (years).

    This is the problem you get into when you make assumptions: if you’re assuming that BSes didn’t spend years trying to save or reconcile before they turned to the divorce option, then you probably are spending too much time following the antics of Kim Kardashian and not enough time dealing with regular people.

    • Exactly. I tried marriage counseling, therapy, church pastors, anxiety disorder clinics, you name it, for YEARS to save my first marriage. I was in it alone. By the time I finally got a clue and divorced him, the commonwealth of Virginia made me wait a year and ONE DAY before I could FILE. And you had to be physically separated. I couldn’t get him to move out for 6 months, even though I had initiated proceedings (he wanted more money, charming…) All in, it took me nearly 2 years to get divorced. I was in my mid-30s. Total waste of my life.

      By contrast, in Texas, it took my husband 60 DAYS to divorce his ex. And he complained — I’m like, dude, you have NO idea.

      I will say though, VA. is a fault state. So that paternalism could be helpful. I just wish they’d kill the mandatory waiting period. As you say, it’s based on ridiculous assumptions.

      When I divorced my cheating ex (in Pa.) the process is 6 months. He dragged it out, but we weren’t living together. Still… that also felt like an eternity.

      I am *all* for the quickie divorce. The reform needs to be on the settlement and custody sides.

      • I was told by a lawyer that if you have sex after you find out about the adultery that in the eyes of the state of Virginia you have “forgiven” them.

        • Correct. It’s called “condonnation” – meaning, you learned about their adultery, but when you invite the Cheater back into having normal marital relations, you’ve condoned the bad behavior.

          It’s not so much forgiveness as it is a legal defense for the Cheater. Means the chump can’t use that bad act to show the Cheater is at fault, because chump condoned it. Slate gets wiped clean, shot clock resets to zero.

          • yeah, my lawyer was gonna try to do a whole thing where he was going to say it was contingent (or whatever the legal word would be) on him getting firing the AP, blah blah. Or however he could spin it. I ended up doing mediation so it didn’t matter.

            But it’s bullshit. You know chumps usually want to try to save the marriage… it’s not like my first instinct was to jump in the sack with him, but you don’t want to be totally denying sex for the long term and worrying that it will drive them back to the AP. Remember, you’re doing the pick me dance. And it’s not like regular people know this stuff…

  • I don’t see a 2 year waiting period to get married, but once your stuck in hell I guess its ok to legislate that you have to wait 2 years to get out. What is the point to a waiting period anyway? Why the hell do you think can dictate to people that they have to jump through even more hoops than a “standard” divorce forces you too? To lessen the impact on children, to lower the divorce rates?? pffttt. Twatever lady. I just see more domestic violence, abused kids and oppps-accidental deaths in the home.

    Ms Twatface, er, Ms Willet needs to be locked in a cage with an abusive, manipulative, taunting, intimidating Neanderthal that lacks any personal hygene and then ask if she wants to go to a communications class while she waits out the 2 year time period before she is let out.

    • And a romantic life with someone who courts STDs daily. That’s a big plus too. If you have to stay married for 2 more years, why not risk your health?

  • Another reason I’m Libertarian. This bullshit piece of crap legislation is immoral–nobody should have the right to tell me who I associate with. I’d love someone to challenge it on the basis that it is completely unconstitutional, not to mention irrational.

    Tired of zealots abusing the law. I don’t want to live in a theocracy.

  • CL,
    I’ll admit to having mixed feelings on this. While I already believe that the government should stay out of our bedrooms and quit trying to tell us who we can or cannot marry….I also am a firm believe that divorce has gotten too………easy. No fault is like a get out of jail free card. The other party has no recourse, no ability to stop the process. The minute you file in a no-fault state – the clock starts running. And for some families – that’s precious little time to try and stop the wheels from coming completely off the bus.

    When I found out about my ex and his 4 year affair – I made him leave, but I had not yet given up on the life we’d built together. I may have been stupid, naive or obstinate – but I truly felt that a family deserved some work put in to save it even when one parent went off the rails. But a month and 1/2 later – after stating repeatedly that he was in no hurry to divorce – he filed under no-fault. And there was nothing I could do to stop or stall that legal clock from running on. Perhaps – if divorce was not so clean and quick and cut and dry – something that isn’t quite broken can be salvaged. Don’t we owe that to our children to try?
    Of course – all my points are moot because he had no “try” in him – it was all directed to the OW. He devalued a loving and faithful and wonderful wife (yes, I was) and two beautiful children because he couldn’t take his mind off his dick and his infantile needs. But maybe, just maybe – if he’d been faced with a harder legal hill to climb – he would have thought twice about ending things. He is all about “easy.” His life should be easy, a marriage should be easy, money should be easy. Divorce should be “easy.” If the law made it just a little messier, a little harder to end a marriage – maybe the hard work of trying to fix it would look a little more enticing.

    I don’t know – all you said is true – and if someone’s cheating on you for that long – you probably aren’t looking at a fixable problem. But I am not sure that we have done right by marriages and families by making the ending of them as easy as trading in a car or returning an outfit at the store.

    • IMO divorce isn’t the problem.

      If CHEATING on your spouse were harder? If there were harsh, financial disincentives to having affairs? If fault divorce existed? There could be more incentive to work on those marriages.

      That way, if in your situation, you’re saddled with someone who doesn’t want to try, at least you’re not paying a larger financial burden as well.

      Either way, I don’t think we can legislate commitment. We can just provide incentives or disincentives for various courses of action.

      • Yeah, this whole no fault thing really cheeses me off. I’m dealing with a serial cheater. I quit my job to stay at home with our children. I lost 401k matching, bonus’s, profit sharing to name a few things. I lost 4 years of SS, and we have been married a little over 8 years. So, unless I drag this out until year 10 (not really wanting to do that, but we can’t divorce until I have this baby anyway which puts us almost at 9 years), I will not be entitled to his SS when he dies. He claims I will get more when we get to negoiations, but I’d like the LAW to me on the side of me. The Chump. The blindsided, lied to wife, who made financial decisions based on faulty, lying, whore banging intel. Yep. I don’t need to drag out this shitstorm I’m in, he would love that. He wants me to stay. I want to punch him in the throat. What I really want, is to be compensated appropriately. Yes, not to be forced to “work on” a marriage that was a sham in the first place.

      • That’s SO true! Maybe that’s what I meant – people should still be able to divorce – but make someone who’s at fault actually have to bear the consequences! I came out of my settlement ahead – but not equal to the level of fault on his part by far. And what galled me most was that the recommendation indicated that his rampant adultery was “given MINIMAL weight!” And yet PA has right on the books that adultery should carry weight when determining fault! If the judges don’t even follow their own code because they think it’s passe’ and everyone should just go splitsies and move on – what chance does someone caught unawares and underfunded have?? I make less than half of what my ex does – and all he could complain about in court was that he didn’t want to have to pay alimony because he wanted to retire at 35 years because that’s when teachers get full pensions!

        Yes – I totally agree – maybe the divorce mechanism isn’t the problem – it’s the lack of weight given to plain old bad behavior. Well said.

        • Broken contract; they should have to pay the penalty for their bad behavior 🙂
          Wish we could implement that into law!!! No fault divorce is GARBAGE!

          • There IS a penalty for their bad behavior…..in North Carolina, and I think 6 other states.

            The BS can go after the AP financially. This may not deter the CHEATER, per se, but it does deter the one who goes into an affair with one of these douchebags in NC.

            Look it up. Over 200 cases annually are prosecuted in North Carolina against affair partners—for monetary damages varying from a few thousand, to a few million….so it’s not just the rich ones. In fact, the average case gets a settlement of ~$40-50K.

            Now. Does that lower the divorce rate in North Carolina at all? Um. Nope.

            • Exactly my point; cheaters should bear the responsibility of their actions whether it is between lawyers or in court. I am not happy that someone can destroy a family and not be held accountable. It is admirable that the BS can go after the AP, but that is NOT enough IMO. If it wasn’t for the cheater screwing around, none of this would have happened in the first place. The cheater needs to feel the consequences of his or her actions in their pocketbook.

    • The ending is the opposite of easy. I live in a no-fault state, which means I’m screwed (again.) It’s plenty messy. I wish it were as easy as trading in a car at this point. And I gave it the old college reconciliation try for 17 years. And making divorce more difficult to obtain would not entice my cheater into trying any harder to fix things. He’s already checked out.

    • Forgive me for being a little harsh in my reply here, but the thought “maybe, just maybe if he’d been faced with a harder legal hill to climb, he would have thought twice about ending things” sounds like misplaced hope — you didn’t need a stricter legal system, your husband should have been a BETTER PERSON.

      I don’t go around killing people because the legal system would punish me for it. It’s because that is a CRUEL and DEPRAVED thing to do and my own sense of morality would provide the necessary restrictions on any shitty behavior.

      And who would want a spouse to stick around just because the divorce would require a lot of paperwork? Swoon, indeed.

      • ^^THIS^^ Completely. I don’t fuck around because I’m not a asshole. Period. My husband does, because he is. The End.

      • BarristerBelle (love that handle, BTW) – I cannot argue or fault your logic. You are right – at the time it was misplaced hope. Address the action, not the mechanism that ends a marriage. If cheaters had to pay for their actions – really pay – maybe that would at least make them pause and think.

        But as you put it – it’s not the stricter legal system – it’s the person. Good people don’t cheat and screw up lives and devastate families by blindsiding them. And he was just a bad person – through and through.

        Thanks for the dose of ice water on my head – got all unicorny for a second.

    • No there should be no manditory waiting periods I do believe in equitable distribution (my state has this) where the mediator or judge gets to look at the finacial state of each spouse and then decides on what is fair. No amount of waiting period etc.. is going to make it better.

    • But do you want to have a spouse when the only reason they stay is because its too hard/complicated legally to divorce?

    • The only way trying will work is if both of you want to try. If just one of you doesn’t want that, it doesn’t matter how long you wait, the marriage is still doomed. If both of you want to try then who’s going to do the filing? Probably neither of you.

      So it doesn’t make sense to critique the divorce process. I agree that the outcome of the divorce is what’s really important.

  • Extending the waiting period from one year to two?? Oh sweet merciful god NO. NO. NO. A thousand times NO.

    And I’m off to draft my vehement opposition letter to my representatives, as now this crap is being presented in MY backyard. Counting down 365 days to be officially rid of the ONGOING cheating, lies, and mental anguish was long enough — even though I was in the fortunate position of having proof from my private investigator AND having negotiated a separation agreement that I wanted.

    North Carolina is still one of the handful of states that will allow you to sue the OW for Alienation of Affection and “Criminal Conversation” claims, which was useful leverage against dingbat and the XH: “Your piece of white trash can’t afford to fight me, and she sure as hell can’t afford to pay damages…and you and I BOTH know you’re now living off of her minimum wages. Agree to my terms and I’ll leave dingbat alone.” He signed.
    But that meant I was fortunate to have been able to negotiate a separation agreement that was in place prior to the divorce decree.

    This proposed bill is utter BULLSHIT, as poor chumps who don’t have sufficient leverage would be stuck in a holding pattern for 2 friggin YEARS. And if Chump can’t get the idiot to sign a separation agreement (i.e., getting the Cheater to waive rights to alimony & spousal support; agreeing that Chump may “act as if she is no longer married and may contract with others as she sees fit;” “permitting Chump to live alone or with whomever she chooses;” etc.), then Chump must sit in a holding pattern – can’t date, can’t go sleeping with some other person, may still have finances tied up – because Chump is STILL MARRIED. Meanwhile Cheater can keep screwing around during the waiting period of course – as that’s been status quo for the Cheater, and Cheater’s bargaining position won’t get any worse. But if the halo isn’t sitting perfectly on the Chump’s head during that entire time… Chump could lose substantial leverage towards the terms of the final divorce decree.

    I’d like to fasten a massive parasitic bloodsucker to Beverly Willet’s face, and instead of permitting her access to a safe and clean medical procedure to have it removed without causing further harm and permanent damage… let’s pass a law to force her to leave it on there for TWO YEARS, requiring her to maintain her role as host and unending blood supply despite infection, scarring, and other ugly and obvious deleterious effects, and tell her she just needs to come to terms with this “relationship.”

    She should just try harder to see things from the bloodsucker’s point of view, and do some serious introspection to learn what she did to contribute to its leech-like behaviors.

    • “I’d like to fasten a massive parasitic bloodsucker to Beverly Willet’s face, and instead of permitting her access to a safe and clean medical procedure to have it removed without causing further harm and permanent damage… let’s pass a law to force her to leave it on there for TWO YEARS, requiring her to maintain her role as host and unending blood supply despite infection, scarring, and other ugly and obvious deleterious effects, and tell her she just needs to come to terms with this ‘relationship.’ ”

      LOL. Too funny (and apt). Thanks for that laugh!

      • Okay, I vote for CL to draw a cartoon of a “massive parasitic bloodsucker” fastened to the face of a stupid “divorce reform” blogger.

        Agree with TH: hilarious–and accurate–analogy, BB.

        • Hey, my h is a massive parasitic bloodsucker! Maybe I can attach him to ms. Willet’s face and get him off of mine.

            • When I changed the locks he was shocked! And when I told him he wasn’t going to live here and SUCK off of me anymore he was SSSOOOOO hurt that I would say such a thing! Then he got angry. Oh Well. The procedure has not been easy or painless and there are still some tentacles enbedded but they WILL COME OUT! Than God I wasn’t married, but I’m going to write a letter to show my support for Chump Nation!!!

              • Toni, I can relate. I had to keep pushing for the separation agreement after the final D-Day:
                XH: “Why are you in such a hurry to get this signed? I don’t see why you can’t just keep paying for my health insurance for another year. Why do I need to get my things out of the house now? Have your friends already set you up with someone else, is THAT it? Why are you wanting to get divorced right away?”

                Me: “No. It’s because you’re STILL screwing the help and you expect me to pay for everything and make you look good! You’re an F-ING PARASITE AND I WANT YOU OFF OF MY BACK.”

                XH: *shocked* (sniff) “That’s the most hurtful thing you’ve ever said to me, BB. I can’t believe you called me a parasite.” (sniff)

    • Bwahahahahahahaaa!!! I love the bloodsucker analogy! She needs to go to classes with it too, and learn how to communicate better with it! *in side stitches!* I definitely want to see that cartoon!

      • HA HA HA!!! You guys are making me laugh hysterically, all of these comments. Love the blood sucking parasite thing-y.

        Seriously Barrister Belle, I think we should band together for divorce reform. These bastard cheaters should not be allowed spousal support, a free pass, the right to make the BS’s wait and be tortured more, and the whole system to look at it like “no biggee”. It just adds to the abuse. I read a book about a woman I think from California whose NPD husband defrauded her of massive amounts of money and assets, actually attempted to murder her, and was convicted and went to jail for it; yet he was still entitled to spousal support and other assets from the marriage, she had to cover his health care, etc. He also tortured her through years and years of divorce court proceedings. I think she ultimately had to pay him while he was in jail, can you believe that??? Afterward, she crusaded for reform of the law in California for situations like this and got legislation passed so this could never happen again.

        I personally think the cheating our exes engaged in is absolute unjustifiable abuse, like punching us in the face or throwing us down the steps every damn day for 5-10-15 (or in my case 17) years. They should not be entitled to support, equal division of assets, etc. I also think such behavior should be taken into account when deciding custody and visitation (are they kidding that it has nothing to do with the children and does not hurt them? that level of deception and dysfunction?). I had to face a situation where my ex had serially cheated on me for decades, leached off me financially and drained “our” assets spending on his sick lifestyle, exposed me to STD’s and other diseases, humiliated me, gaslighted me and our children with sick “games” with his AP’s, and frankly irreparably betrayed and harmed our children….And yet when I met with my own divorce attorney, I learned that according to PA law, I would owe him at least half our assets and thousands upon thousands a month in spousal support (I got him to waive it through many machinations but that’s another story). The thought of that alone put me into panic attacks and hysteria–how would I support our children who he walked out on? How would I pay for my daughter’s college and son’s law school if my ex got “what he deserved”? Was he really going to get rewarded for bailing on every job he had and making so little money while I slaved away as an attorney? It was terrifying to have him crow over me, saying “you know I only want what’s fair, what the law allows…” and know it would ruin us. Also, emotionally, I would have been forced to continue subsidizing his depraved lifestyle (as I had apparently paid for it all along unknowingly), the state would have required me to do so. I pondered that it was a wonder that more betrayed spouses did not resort to violence in these situations, it’s beyond human tolerance! Screw that!!!!!

        • Incredible. Is there any room left in the body of laws or the court system for common sense? Are the laws so prescriptive that everyone involved is left shaking their heads?

          • HB, I don’t do divorce or family law, but my experience is that they have taken all fault and a lot of common sense out of the process. My ex had no doubt he could manipulate me during our marriage, and use me financially. And he also knew that if I found him out, he need not fear that his horrific behavior would impede him in getting assets and spousal support pending divorce. In Pennsylvania the only thing infidelity would do is cut off post-divorce alimony, which they don’t award a lot of anyhow. It just boggles my mind, and gives me a lot of sympathy for men like you who are “of course” going to pay spousal support to you cheating SAH wives. It makes no sense to me, why are they rewarded for their bad behavior?

  • Having lived in North Carolina for a few years, I’m betting there is also some of the traditional-Christian guilt of needing to “give the marriage another chance”. They were big on the religious connection, at least when I was living there.

    For the record, I am proudly Christian, and I also believe that people should respect their marriages…..but also their marraige vows! That and do not commit adultery….do not covet thy neighbor’s wife. I distinctly remember the Bible saying that cheating is a perfectly good reason to be out of a marriage. Cheating is a sin, and cheaters were often stoned in public! Personally, I would prefer my STBX to be tar-and-feathered, but, whatever. Actually, maybe tar-and-feathering is too much, too…..I would settle for just getting him out of my everyday life as much as possible, and healing after his narc-craziness.

    My best friend got a divorce in North Carolina, and she *hated* the requirement of waiting one year. Considering that she had wanted out of the marraige for years prior to her decision, this was just one more year of stress. Yuck. But what could she do? She toughed it out. Living seperate and apart from her husband was better than living with him, at least, even if they were still legally tied.

    If they are going to pass this legislation, I really hope they become a fault-state, so at least cheaters will have to pay for their trysts.

    • The bible thumpers ruin it for everyone else.

      Thankfully even though I live in NC, I was with my ex in FL so we divorced via the FL courts and didnt have to wait a year. That would have been excruciating.

  • A modest proposal: How about waiting periods for other situations we consider abusive that perhaps might just require a little more thought to “make them work.”

    The guy who sold you the house built over an undisclosed Native American burial ground? Maybe you should have to wait two years before suing him for fraud. Because, hey, you might grow to like “living with history in your own back yard.”

    The lady who abducted your child from the hospital because she couldn’t conceive? Maybe she should get to keep the baby for a few months while we see how things go. Because maybe she really has a strong maternal instinct, and after all you work full time and would just be putting this kid in daycare anyway.

    That dude who slipped some Rohipnol in your drink last night before he sexually assaulted you? Maybe you’re judging him too quickly and the law should require you to spend the weekend with him before making up your mind. Maybe he’s got a charming sense of humor that takes a while to shine through.

    The bottom line is this: Human victims should be allowed to escape from human predators. It’s true of rape, kidnapping, and fraud, and it’s true of marital predation as well. It is a primary purpose of government to facilitate *liberation* from such abuse, not to perpetuate it.

    • the problem is…

      it is ASSumed that they were FORCED into the predatory life, because the wife was doin’ somethin’ wrong herself. Not being a good, devoted, caring, loving, adoring wife. (never mind if the cheater was the one who was not doing these things. He NEEDED to cheat!)

      Unfortunately, infidelity is not considered to be a crime or an act of abuse. It is seen as an act of desperation and that makes me wanna throw up.

      I’m not divorced or even legally separated, but am living separately and will never go back. No one can make me go back and I don’t need a piece of paper to have this farce of a union dissolved!

    • Wow Nomar, that is… incredibly f*cking brilliant. We are victims of marital predation. Your examples are stunning. “The bottom line is this: Human victims should be allowed to escape from human predators.” EXACTLY!

      You guys (my co-chumps including CL) have done more for me in understanding what my ex did, defining it, and wrapping my mind around it (which I never ever thought I would ever be able to do) than anything, and I tried it all, a library of Amazon books, thousands of dollars in therapy, talking to my friends, toughing it out, crying it out, “forgiving” (bwahahah), etc etc etc. I was “stuck” and revolving back through the stages of grief over and over and over at a dizzying rate, before finding CL. But I NOW GET IT. Thank you thank you thank you ALL…..

  • Long time listener, first time caller…many thanks to CL and this community for sharing your strength. You’ve helped me so much during this excruciating season of my life. My alcoholic, drug addicted, cheating, soon to be ex is a walking (driving) legal liability. His behaviors compromised my physical and mental health and well-being, took a heavy financial toll….and I will be holding my breath until the divorce is finalized that he doesn’t engage in any more risky business that could subject me to expensive liability. I tried everything humanly possible to help that man. I gave at the office. I’ve paid my penance. Now I just want out. Two more years seems cruel and unkind.

    • Welcome Doop!
      That was my big fear, he was driving these girls around buying THEM DRUGS FOR SEX and “He wasn’t doing anything wrong” and God knows what he did in our apt. They all have felony convictions as long as my arm but I’M the bad one..for not going along!!! Thank GOD we weren’t married, I’m beginning to wonder if maybe he’s married to someone else still? I hope so. Too many lies to keep track…

  • Yeah, that lady Beverly Willet is pretty crazy… why the hell would you want to force someone, ANYONE to be married to you? And how is that going to be better for the kids?

    Where I think some reform needs to happen is on the getting married side. I think there should be more required counseling that takes place before you get married. I didn’t get married in a church so I had none. I’d lived with my boyfriend who then became my fiance and then husband. I just thought marriage was the next step in life (especially to have kids) and it wouldn’t really change our day to day life so I didn’t give it much deep thought. I didn’t REALLY sit down and think about future problems… other than knowing the general agreed upon sentiment that “marriage takes work”. I expected it to last for life and I have integrity so I upheld my vows, but he did not. I just think if I’d actually been forced to sit in a room and hear about common marital problems and ways to work through them… maybe if I’d been given a book… then I/we could have recognized them and dealt with them early on rather than me being fairly clueless and him silently resenting me and then cheating on me. Also maybe some kind of counseling when you’re pregnant as well. And no, I don’t know how it would be paid for… Would this prevent all divorce? No. Any? I don’t know. I guess I just wish someone had enlightened me (and especially him) a little bit about the reality of a lifetime relationship before we started down that road.

    I actually think they should teach more of this stuff in high school or something as well. On marriage and family. Or maybe on morals/ethics in general… I don’t know… I know it gets touchy trying to do that but something has got to slow this rampant narcissism and massive divorce rate.

  • Thought others might find this interesting:

    MY EMAIL THIS MORNING TO MS. WILLET:

    “Your suggestion to ‘reform’ divorce by requiring people to stay married for years after they decide they need out is a horrible idea. If enacted anywhere, such rules would cause immeasurable suffering to people in bad marriages, especially those married to spouses who have affairs, lie, waste family resources, hide marital assets, hire prostitutes, expose their spouses to sexually transmitted diseases, expose children to dangerous characters, abuse drugs and alcohol, commit crimes, etc.

    “Human victims should be allowed to escape from human predators. That should apply to victims of marital predation just as it applies to victims of robbery, rape, or kidnapping. A primary purpose of government is to support such freedom from abuse. A supposed exception for people who obtain a conviction for assault is a hollow and cynical ploy because obtaining such a conviction ‘beyond a reasonable doubt’ is often impossible (especially if it’s the defendant’s first time in the criminal justice system) and in any event will usually take more than a year.

    “If you want to try to persuade people to stay in toxic and abusive relationships, go ahead. Let the pain and injury you cause be on your conscience. But stop your foolish, arrogant, and cruel campaign to impose these loathsome ideas on innocent people by force of law.”

    HER EMAIL RESPONSE TO ME (after apparently Googling me):

    “RE: YOUR VICIOUS PERSONAL ATTACKS

    “Mr. ______________,

    “As a member of the bar, as I am, too, with ethical obligations, I am shocked and disheartened by your angry screed and unwarranted personal attacks on me. You write of victims and predators, and then proceed to hurl your uncontrolled rage at me in a personal attack.

    “I respond to my emails, and I am available to engage only in respectful, purposeful dialogue.

    “Nevertheless, I agree that human victims should be allowed to escape from human predators. I have never said or advocated otherwise, nor do I. If you actually read my writing, or knew me, you would know that. You would also know that fault-based divorce laws would provide such protections, but people don’t seem to want that. Maintenance of our current system, however, is completely lopsided when it comes to protecting children and innocent victims who are divorced against their will without recompense. According to statistics, unilateral divorce accounts for about 80% of divorces. Moreover, the research demonstrates that 2/3 of all divorces involve low conflict marriages that have good chances of salvage and that many of those at the courthouse steps want help reconciling but don’t know where to turn. The experiences and research of respected scholars, academics, lawyers, marriage professionals and others bear out these FACTS.

    “You are entitled to your personal opinion, even if it conflicts with the facts. But you are not entitled either as a lawyer (and I assume a member of the Texas bar), or as a human being, to viciously attack and abuse me in public or in private. I assume you did not get your Superlawyer rating on the basis of such behavior. You seem to be interested in this topic I note, however, even though your website does not indicate that you practice matrimonial law. Nevertheless, a far better use of your time, in my opinion, would be offering concrete, thoughtful suggestions on how to protect victims of abuse while also protecting the far greater number of couples and children caught in the net of no-fault divorce who are unintended victims.

    “Very truly yours,

    “Beverly Willett”

    MY EMAIL REPLY TO MS. WILLET:

    “Ms. Willet,

    As long as you continue to promote the wing-nut legislation described in your *Huffington Post* column, you should be prepared for people to tell you it is horrible and why.

    “As you said in your email, I am entitled to my opinion. And my opinion is that you are an embarrassment to the legal profession and woefully unqualified to run other peoples’ love lives.”

    • hmm…so Ms. Willet thinks a criminal conviction for spousal abuse is the only suitable exception to her extended waiting period proposal.

      Guess she skipped that whole year of law school when they taught TORTS – all those lovely civil (non-criminal) causes of action like Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress, Negligence, Recklessness…

      Who wants to bet Willet’s so-research consists of self-serving platitudes churned out by the Reconciliation Industrial Complex? “Moreover, the research demonstrates that 2/3 of all divorces involve low conflict marriages that have good chances of salvage and that many of those at the courthouse steps want help reconciling but don’t know where to turn.”

      Ohhhh — but constant cheating, lying, mindfuckery, squandering of assets, risk of exposure to STDs, gut-wrenching agony, betrayal, blame-shifting, deception, abandonment, and cruelty qualifies as “low conflict.” Cute. Real cute.

    • Give me a break. She only offers protection from *physical* abuse, and never even mentioned that you stated abuse by adultery, prostitutes, wasting of assets, etc etc.

      I’m sorry, but my divorce was also “low-conflict”. We were still able to communicate, and didn’t rage at each other. But sorry, because it was “low-conflict”, did I want to reconcile with the man who cheated on me for a decade with hookers, spent enough money to put *both* of our children through college, and never once got tested for STDs? Hell NO.

      She completely misses the point, and good on you for pointing it out.

    • Unbelievable Nomar, your email was polite and direct and not an angry “screed” at all. Did she actually have the nerve to accuse you of violating your ethical duties as an attorney? Is she kidding?? That is ludicrous. This woman is off her rocker and an embarrassment to attorneys, legislators, and the human race in general. On a factual basis as well, her response makes no sense… Gee as I write that I suddenly realized what her unwarranted attacks, and circuitous and strange way of communicating remind me of– she speaks and attacks the way my ex used to do–hummmmm–

      In fact, her obviously unwarranted claim that you have violated some sort of ethical duty as an attorney appears to be simply a feeble attempt to distract the conversation, as is her personal attack on you after actually pulling up your website. She claims that 80% of all divorces are “unilateral”– the phrase “unilateral divorce” has no meaning and makes no sense. Likewise, her statement that 2/3 of divorces involve “low conflict” marriages that have a good chance of “salvage”–again are words that make no sense…what does that even mean? exactly how did she or anyone else possibly determine that? It’s all bullshit. Sounds like confusing “narc-speak” to me. Similarly, this woman actually took the time to look at your website, know you are a Superlawyer, and attempt to personally belittle you? That’s actually a little scary. More than a little. I vote she’s an NPD/sociopath. I am not kidding.

  • So this leaves the shared bank accounts and credit cards open to misuse and fraud for two more years as well?

    As my EW told me, “there was nothing illegal about me cleaning out the savings account 2 days before filing for divorce”.

    The poor chump who’s cheating spouse is also addicted to gambling, gets TWO MORE YEARS to try and keep the finances from going completely down the toilet?? WTF??

    Just one more abuse for the chump to endure

  • In Australia and New Zealand we have to wait a year to file. It doesn’t really mean much if you have made up your mind to divorce.
    In the States it seems you catch him/ her cheating today and you can file tomorrow. Doesn’t change the statistics. They’re bad in the western world. If the consequences of cheating was a good stoning then that might effect their desire to fuck up their families.
    In my situation I was on the reconciliation trial for a while and it wasn’t until I discovered the emails etc and stopped all the lies from groceries that I drew a line in the sand. Then I went crazy fir a while my life fell apart. This web site had a huge impact on deciding that I had to leave a cheater and gain a life.
    What is frustrating and what law makers should be focused on is the no fault state shit. We as a society need to stop this infidelity in its tracks. The damage to families is unbelievable. For the sake of”I want to be happy” these cheaters will stop at nothing to gain this outcome.
    The length of waiting time has not stopped groceries. She is now in a full blown relationship with chainsaw man and that will have bugger all effect in a property settlement. They all end up at 50/50. I have the boys 80% of the time but you watch I’ll end up with 50/50 split. If she was a SAHM then she would get more.
    There also seems to be a Stradegy over here not to file but let the other party first. Don’t quite undertsand why. Chainsaw man didn’t get divorced for four years but he fucked his brains out in the meantime.
    IMO the legal system needs a overhaul to deal with this shit. Call adultery what it is.
    It doesn’t change the person though. With these narcissist the only way to deal with them is get far far away from them. Unfortunately groceries lives 200yards up the road and I have to deal with that. Everybody and I mean everybody says that says more about how cruel she is and what sort of a person she is to live so close.

  • FYI: I poked around a bit on the net about the N.C. bill and found folks referring to the two state senators sponsoring the bill there as the “Tarheel Taliban.” [snort!]

  • Even when you file right away, it seems like it takes a long time to actually get divorced. I talked with my attorney yesterday and she said it usually takes 18 months at least.

    And that’s not counting the custody portion of it. I really, really hope my STBX doesn’t do what many narcs seem to, namely, drag out the proceedings just to be a stinker.

  • I served my Narc with papers while we were still living together. He looked at me after he read them and calmly asked why I didn’t talk to him about it! I had tried to talk to him about it for over two years and every time we argued the first words he screamed at me were “go ahead and file for divorce”…so I finally did. He told me he would make me wait for two years before he did anything – you know that control thing. And he did. 1 year and 11 months later he signed papers to move forward on what would have been our 17th anniversary. I think he thought it would make me sad, but I laughed so hard at the irony of it. We are still battling and now he calls me once a week asking what is taking so long. Ha!

    Nomar – thank you for firing off that letter to that awful woman. She needs to get her head out of the sand and move on!!!!!!!!! It is the most assinine thing I have ever heard.

    As far as counseling before you get married. We were required by our church to do that. When you’re in love and hear all that stuff about how things may be hard, etc, etc. You don’t think that’s ever going to happen to you. At least I didn’t.

    So the amount of time and / or counseling before or after a marriage to me is not going to do anything to truly change things. It’s not the time, it’s not the counseling it’s the two people involved and their commitment to each other.

  • This is weird legislation, the nanny state, the father-knows-best state. You can legislate good character or good intentions. This is legislation that confuses form (people staying married and lowering the divorce rate [they hope] and slowing the divorce process) with content (miserable, unhappy marriages). If a marriage is miserable, the “waiting period” has probably already taken place. If the wandering partner has no commitment, then the law and a waiting period won’t change that.

    • Agreed. Treating the symptom (divorce) rather than the disease (narcissism, infidelity, etc.). Like saying people vomit too much so when anyone feels sick to their stomach we’re going to duct tape their mouth shut for a couple of hours.

      Forget Nanny State. More like Ninny State.

  • There must be something in the water…Washington State had a bill on this year that would extend the waiting period from 90 days to 12 months as well. Luckily, it did not go forward ( I don’t know the reasons why – hopefully good common sense!).

    What WA needs is to be legislating itself into a “fault” state. No-fault sucks big time. Get screwed over by your spouse, then get screwed over by the state. My county also requires the mandatory 4 hour parenting class. I had a great time at mine when they told me “it takes two to tango”. You have to endure to many slaps of the face in this process as it is, I can’t believe they would try to mandate longer waiting periods as well. It’s not like the majority of marriages just simply end one day because one spouse wakes up and files on a whim. Problems are usually long-standing and severe.

  • My mother divorced when I was 14 and it was for the SAKE of the children! It was the bravest, most courageous and bestest thing she ever did for me, bar none. (and she’s done a lot of awesome things for me–ike loan me the money so that I could get my place away from the insanity)

    So, whoever said that its better to stay married for the sake of the children forgot that its very, very possible that one parent is certifiably crazy, abusive and just plain old sick. And that means that for the sake of the children and the sane parent, its not only wise to get out, but vital for everyone’s survival!

    • My mother, married for 50 years until the day my father died, would agree with your mother’s actions. My mom says she completely respects the sanctity of marriage. That’s why it’s so important for people to get divorced when one or both parties can no longer respect that sanctity. Infidelity is a deal breaker. Abuse (mental or physical) is a deal breaker. Staying in a bad marriage is BAD for children because it models dysfunctional relationships. Children need to learn positive, respectful relationships, and they don’t see that in a bad marriage.

      This legislation is really frivolous. Doesn’t the state legislature have something more important on its plate–maybe job creation?

      • Oh, and she’d also say that falling out of love–whatever that means for you–is also a good reason to be divorced. If two people are in love and want to get married, they should be able to get married. If that love no longer exists for whatever reason, they should be able to get divorced. Anything else fails to respect what marriage should represent.

  • i think we all need to email mz willet.imo it already takes too long to get a divorce.and costs too much.if the government and the courts are soo concerned about Frivolous divorce then judges could just send and mandate people to counseling.There people could get to tell someone(officially) WHY there getting divorced.for example a person could say “she cant keep her legs closed ” Or “he cant keep it in his pants” Or “he “or “she is abusive”(hitting,biting,yelling,screaming,scratching.throwing things,breaking things)((all things i went thru))etc. ,or “reckless with the family resources”(gambling addiction,or other spending addiction,sending or spending money on other people)etc.(my xw sent thousands to her family,in just a few months)(meanwhile i didnt have money to buy a pack of ciggeretts even tho i worked on hot roofs),. There are a lot of marriages out there and people in marriages that are in acute distress(like i was)..and nobody out there (officially) who really gives a damn.family values?????imo thats nothing but a DAMN PUBLIC RELATIONS SHAM,mostly from the right wing of our political spectrum.appeal and appease the “christian right”
    my xw openly having an affair was the last straw.i thought wow i really need to get a divorce now and move on…by that time i was really suffering with PTSD…
    People in shitty marriages need to be able to move on ,need the support to do so,and dont need wingnut wanna be dogooders making this difficult process even worse…
    HERES my other two cents:Frivolous Divorce
    Grass greener somewhere else???Pay the piper when you have your day in court.sexlife gotten boring and you dont wanna work on it? or you got you eye on someone else?ALL that can come out in the wash when you go before a judge

  • I am all for divorce reform; for the abused spouse and children being compensated for a contract that was broken. I have a HUGE PROBLEM with no fault divorce. No wonder so many “evil people” see this as their loophole to screw people over, and now we add a waiting period which I see as HELL on earth for innocent spouses and children who do NOT deserve such treatment.

    • simple.
      give people the tools to catch catch cheating and abusive spouses .and penalize those who do commit adultery and abuse .
      a long time ago ” alimony to wives was paid because it was assumed that the marriage, and the wife’s right to support, would have continued but for the misbehavior of husband.”
      quoted from wikipedia .
      ill admit that a lot of people probably file for divorce because their board with their sex lives ,or what ever,they just get board….the wifes getting older and her breasts are sagging and shes gained a few dress sizes and he just cant get the idea out of his head that the grass must be greener somewhere else

      or
      the wifes mind has been mired in sewage like Eat Pray Love and or 50 Shades of Gray and shes lost all attraction for her husband and everything he does irritates her
      anymore.

      as far as im concerned if you cheat on your spouse PAY A PRICE
      if you abuse your spouse PAY A PRICE
      if you just dont like being married anymore
      thru no real fault of your spouse PAY A PRICE

      but this ridiculous shit of making someone wait is just bullshit.

  • This legislation is garbage, pure and simple. The “Tarheel Taliban” (I absolutely love that moniker)—don’t know what the people of NC want, nor do they care.

    Ms. Willet, like someone I know right now, was the “innocent person” who was “divorced against their will”—I can’t speak for Ms. Willet, but I can say that the person I am thinking of (who does live in NC)—she is gleefully hiding behind this proposed legislation.

    Her husband cheated on her here, for at least a year–and in Utah I believe, before that, with a neighbor. Somehow he weaseled out of that first one (“I swear! I was just over there every single day while you were at work and I was unemployed so I was just helping her mow the lawn and watch her kids while she went to school to BETTER HERSELF and yeah her husband was BEATING HER and I felt so bad and SOMEHOW she developed feelings for me and okay maybe we TALKED about “kissing” a few times, but that was IT—-I SWEAR) This poor Chump either believed him that first time, I’m not sure because I didn’t know her back then—or she was really just in love with douchebag.

    She gets to NC and he waits like…..5 minutes before taking up with another one. No state law about her going after the OW deterred him. When D-Day came about for her, she screamed and raged at him—called him “asshole” and the like—-and then just let him stay there, raising their kid…he’s still unemployed (unemployable at this point)….she stays at work constantly to avoid him.

    So why would she keep him there? She wants to make him pay for what he did. She thinks that when he tells her now that he’s not fucking anyone else (and she’s not putting out, because they sleep in separate bedrooms)—somehow it’s now become the truth because he said what she wants to hear.

    She’s a nice woman. Kinda dumb, socially, but I like her. She doesn’t have many friends, she makes a lot of money, and she’s plain. She doesn’t dress up, she doesn’t like girly things, and she doesn’t care what anybody, including her husband, thinks of how she looks. She’s smart and she makes money, and that’s all that’s important in her world.

    She freely admits that she doesn’t give him sex, doesn’t like it when she does, and she’s told him that paying his bills should be “enough” for him.

    So. He cheats. He’s scum. Yes. He should pack up and leave, especially in these circumstances. They’ve got a kid and he can’t afford a lawyer to fight her for custody and he won’t give that up….he’s very devoted to the kid (surprisingly).

    WHY then, does she relish this legislation??? Why gleefully email this to him and say….”You’re in it for the long haul, asshole.”

  • Sorry I hit send before finishing my thought.

    I think it’s a case of NPD met and married NPD. Ms Willet and my sex hating friend here—they can’t believe that someone would cheat on them, let alone LEAVE—and goddamn it, they’re gonna MAKE YOU STAY, whether you love them or not, whether you destroy your kids or not, whether everyone around you is cringing or not, whether everyone around you is just laughing at how stupid you are or not—it doesn’t matter.

    The crazy thing is that she claims to be religious, too, but the reasons for forcing him to stay in the marriage don’t have anything to do with that. She never mentions love. She never mentions reconciliation or counseling. SHE WANTS TO BE RIGHT. She married the asshole, and goddamn it…..she was RIGHT and NOBODY is going to tell her differently.

    In a sad sort of way, I think it’s a just punishment for him. I really do. She isn’t giving him what he desperately wants/needs, and yet he can’t/won’t (now legislation is going to give him even more cover to stay put) leave. She likes it because she thinks it’s going to keep him there, for whatever sick reason.

    It’ll pass. I’ll bet on it. The religious freaks around here will be all over it.

    • But I’m dying to know why she would hang on. I think he IS getting exactly what he wants. He’s like an adult living with his mom. She pays the bills and he’s free to do his thing.

      The day I realized my wife didn’t want to make it work, I started interviewing lawyers. When I told her I was meeting with lawyers, my wife looked shaken (not a common occurrence) and asked “What happened to ‘I’ll fight for you, I’ll change for you, I’ll wait until the end of time for you’?” These were of course all silly things I had said during the 2 week ILYBINILWY phase prior to d-day. My answer was that I had said those things before I knew that she had already moved on without me. I knew I couldn’t do it by myself.

      I cannot fathom what could make someone want to hang on to a spouse by force of law.

      • yep, she’s just continuing to feed him his cake… maybe not as nicely as before… but it’s still cake.

        took me a while but I figured out ILYBINILWY 🙂

        • I know, people say engineering is a secret language of acronyms. It appears that there is a language of the betrayed too. I still haven’t figured out FOO. I’m sure I’m going to feel silly when I do.

          • Honestly. I don’t know. We all shake our heads. They don’t even like each other well enough to pretend, yet she has the money and wherewithall to boot his ass fairly cheaply, and with the numerous affairs (that we know about), she’d have plenty of leverage, like BarrisaBelle had….sign and I won’t go after the AP, asshole.

            I cringe to say, I think it’s low self esteem with her, in addition to the NPD that I know she also suffers from. She’s never had any other boyfriends, married him because he was the “captain of the football team” guy with lots of friends, handsome, outgoing (she’s very plain and very awkward socially). He does admit that “the sex was lousy, if we had it at all–she’s a frump, was never really attracted to her, “visited her” every couple of weeks for sex and did the obligatory hang with her friends routine until the next couple of weeks…” She had a made up boyfriend who she always tried to use to make him jealous with–but when it finally didn’t work, she threatened to leave and he said “okay. i’ll drive you to your sister’s house two states away. have a nice life”

            she says now that he “broke her heart” and when he finally got sick of being a broke assed construction worker, and she’s an actuary—the lightbulb went off in his head about how comfortable his life could be….even though the sex was lousy….blahblahfuckityblah (i love you tracy.)

            fast forward to when he left her once, yet still did the dance of pick me (with the four other women he was dating while separated for a short 7 months)—and got deliberately pregnant.

            now what does this sound like? Feeding him cake? I’m not sure. Does she cling to him out of self esteem issues? Is she deluding herself that she’s torturing him somehow that he can’t go off and marry the AP—I mean…he’s not suffering…she pays all the bills.

            Who knows. What I do know is that this new law, if it’s passed, gives her carte blanche to dick around with him forever, and him to screw around with other women’s lives forever.

            I don’t know who suggested it here, but yeah….adultery should be a criminal offense. None of this “go after the affair partner”….put the cheater in jail like they do for deadbeat parents on the lam from child support. See how often it happens.

    • yea

      what is she thinking?
      what is he thinking?

      is she making him stick around just for the kid?

      you cannot Make someone love you or even like you.

      the way i feel if someone wants to have an EPL divorce dont stop them,dont make them wait. make them pay a penalty and get it over with.

      people get married they swear an oath
      and sign something(i dont remember what i signed,too long ago lol)
      you do the same thing when you join the military

      I _____, take you ______, to be my wedded ****. To have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness or in health, to love and to cherish ’till death do us part. And hereto I pledge you my faithfulness.

      this one means nothing,people break it,step on it and spit on it when ever they want and theres little or no price to pay.

      I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

      this one means something.penalty’s are severe for breaking this oath.

      cheat on your spouse nobody gives a damn

      cheat on uncle sam well your probably going to military prison.
      (and btw cheat on your spouse while your in the US military theres a penalty for that)

      abuse your spouse.people do it all the time.

      abuse a fellow enlisted person or yourself and your probably going to military jail

      abandon your spouse.nobody gives a damn and you might go on tv with Oprah

      go awol in the military and your probably going to military prison

      i ask everyone whats the difference?

      they both start with an oath
      they both are voluntary(now)

      i think that people who dont keep their marriage vows(an oath) should pay a price

  • There is a high concentration of ill-educated ignorant xenophobic god botherers here, that’s for damn sure.

    So far I’m staying for the weather – not sure I will stay here for life though.

  • Wait. Wait. Wait.

    Marriage is a legal institution here. And a voluntary one. People choose to get married ~ and both have to agree to be married. It is a contract.

    We outlawed indentured servitude and slavery for very good reasons. I had to divorce my ex-husband because he was carrying on a brazen affair in front of me, our families and our children (one of whom is autistic). He refused to go to therapy, and he refused to go to counseling. If he had been forced to attend these, he would have been so resentful it would have failed. And I was already so distrustful of him that I would not have particiapated in good faith for fear that something said in a counseling session would be used against me later in the divorce case.

    We needed a Guardian Ad Litem to set our visitation schedule for our adult disabled daughter, because he would not agree to anyone that a 50/50 split of her time was not in her best interest. None of these things constituted battery ~ but they were as unhealthy for me and my children as if he had beaten me.

    The mandatory waiting time allows non-compliant spouses the chance to hide assets, begin a smear campaign against the other spouse and engage in parental alienation well ahead of a “for fault” trial.

    I think we all need to go listen to Bonnie Raitt now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW9Cu6GYqxo

    • “If he had been forced to attend these, he would have been so resentful it would have failed. And I was already so distrustful of him that I would not have particiapated in good faith for fear that something said in a counseling session would be used against me later in the divorce case.”

      Exactly. I know this is how I’d have felt (resentful) when my ex of 10 years, after threatening to poison me by putting something in my food—yet wanted to stay married—and then I would be forced by law to go to “love therapy” sessions to find out why we don’t talk anymore. I definitely would have said things that could have been used against me later on!

      “The mandatory waiting time allows non-compliant spouses the chance to hide assets, begin a smear campaign against the other spouse and engage in parental alienation well ahead of a “for fault” trial.”

      Again, precisely on the money (no pun intended). I think I’m starting to understand this a little more though…this is kind of like gun control or the EPA—you don’t just outright “ban” something in Congress, you de-fund it…and if you can’t de-fund it, you make it so outrageously expensive, drawn out, and mind numbingly complicated…the party trying to get out or have the right thing done….just gives up, gives in, takes the hit or dies.

      Like Tracy said—the one ex dragged things on interminably. Not because he loved her and wanted her back, it’s because she left him and embarrassed him and stomped all over his feel goods.

      It’s frightening though….the thought process behind this piece of trash legislation really is that “indentured servitude/slavery” concept. The ultra-conservatives here got a thorough thrashing on the whole gay marriage ban, and again on some other very conservative legislation—so if they can’t outright ban something, they’re going to make it so fucking miserable to go through, you comply or leave.

      Personally—I’m leaving. These people are insane. Nobody gets to tell me that I have to stay married to some asshole for ANY reason. That’s my business whether I want to divorce him or not. I don’t have kids, so this bullshit that “IT’S FOR THE CHILDREN” is just that….utter bullshit. Would I get a waiver then, if I wanted to dump my cheater’s sorry ass at the curb if we don’t have kids?

  • One unintended consequence of such a law passing will almost certainly be an increase in children born out of wedlock. Why get married and risk the very high stakes of having to live in an unhappy marriage for years after you decide to get out? Better to let the kid grow up with parental ambiguity from the start.

    Ironic that the “family values” nuts who want so badly to beef up the institution of marriage will only end up driving people away from it.

    • Exactly Nomar. Also, if I had had to wait to get rid of my dead-ass ex (who I divorced in less than 5 months from D-Day), I would have simply moved on anyhow as if we were already divorced. And if I met someone who I wanted to spend the rest of my life with and could not yet marry because the divorce was not final, I would have shacked up with him until then. So much for family values. So screw them if they want to be in cahoots with an abuser.

  • Hey – I have some good news to share on this topic – The Florida Governor VETOED an Alimony Reform Bill just yesterday that had passed through the Florida Legislature earlier this month and was on his desk to sign into Law. This Bill would have caused immeasurable harm to many. We got lucky that the Gov. is preparing for re-election (Obviously). This bill was cut from the same kind of crazy clothe as this NC bullshit. Hopefully, it will die the same death. It was also proposed by asses like this gal who want to impose their personal agendas via law.

    • under what circumstances should lifetime alimony be awarded?
      should a cheating sahm be awarded lifetime alimony?
      im not sure if my son is really my biological son btw.is that fair?
      should a cheating sahf be awarded lifetime alimony?
      should lifetime alimony be awarded if both spouses work and abuse/adultery did not occur ?

      should women like Elizabeth Gilbert of Eat Pray Love fame be awarded lifetime alimony?

      • Is there really such a thing as lifetime alimony??? That would seem to create all kinds if perverse incentives.

        • In CA, you can get lifetime alimony after 10 years of marriage. I could possibly be supporting my h til he dies. He thinks he’s going to get sympathy for the unemployed sahd part, and he just might. I can kind of understand for those who give up careers to take care of kids. He gave up working so he could play video games.

        • I think there is, but you need to have been married an extremely long time and have been out of the workforce for a very long time as well. I’m all for it, depending on who the cheater is of course!

          BTW, yeah, that book kinda drove me nuts that she didn’t admit to cheating… even though she magically had a super serious boyfriend immediately after ending her marriage and referred to having been in said future boyfriend’s apartment before her marriage ended. I’m sure they were “just friends”, or I mean “just yoga buddies meeting to listen to their guru”.

  • I live in North Carolina and am currently separated from my lying, cheating husband. He denied an affair and moved out on his own and tried to pretend that he hadn’t been screwing a co-worker for months. Unfortunately for him, I had hired a private investigator who discovered otherwise. I have lots of tips for people in this state who have cheating spouses…there are some legal twists that it is good to be aware of. For instance, if you can stand to keep them in the house and document their infidelity (while watching them sleep next to you and imagining smothering them in their sleep), it guarantees you alimony regardless of other circumstances. ALSO, NC is one of 7 states in which you can sue someone for being a trashy whore, which is a fun thought on its own and very good for leverage against your lying, cheating piece of shit spouse. I never thought I would know these things, but there it is. The year waiting period has worked for me because it bought me a year in which my children do not have to be introduced to his trashy whore. Wondering what anyone thinks of the alienation of affection/criminal conversation lawsuit against the trashy whores of the world?

    • i think adultery should be a criminal offense.

      i called my cheating xw a whore to her face in front of her AP…lol

      make it a criminal offense and put in on their permanent record.make it available on Google.them and the AP along with their picture.

      i totally disagree with making someone wait to get a divorce.i paid a lawyer $2500 and he did nothing for a year.i finally fired his ass and got another.tracy can i mention his name?lol jj jk

      as for frivolous divorce? if someone wants a divorce because their just board or whatever? let them pay a fine and have it.most of us have to pay a traffic ticket sometime or another.or do community service if they have no money.

      • I have just won an appeal for sending a message to ex calling her a selfish bitch. The district court judge summed up and said it how it is. “This is adultery and in a former era it would be a criminal offence. Baci has just reacted to a truly difficult situation and having read the evidence there is some proof in the text message. Just paid $80 for a full transcript.
        There are judges out there with common sense.

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