Dear Chump Lady, Is the OW a Dominatrix?
Dear Chump Lady,
Is it really possible for everything to just change (poofing) in the cheater’s life including his sexuality? My cheater trained me to be his submissive and when I discovered he was cheating my very first thought was that he had found a better submissive. When I asked him that question, he claimed that “his whole sexuality changed” when he met her, but refused to discuss his sexual activities with her. I took that comment about change to mean that she was not a submissive.
People who know this woman from years ago tell me that she is a bossy, imperious woman and my Ex’s old girlfriend from before me (who I looked up online and talked to) even speculated that Ex was now the submissive and he was trying that out to see what it was like to be dominated himself.
I hired a private investigator a month ago to see if he was really living with her because he had claimed he wasn’t, and that he didn’t think the relationship with her was going to last. In the video/photos the P.I. sent me, I see that she is about 4-5 inches taller than him, and when they were walking into a diner together, she grabbed his arm about halfway up between his wrist and elbow and was leading him by the arm. In all the other frames, he was walking about three paces behind her.
I was shocked to see that, because I am an inch shorter than him and in our entire relationship I always treated him like a king, and put him up on a pedestal as a man. He was “in charge” of our household, even though I am the breadwinner. His angry tantrums caused me and my kids to walk on eggshells all the time. He would yell and scream over trivial “infractions” like a backpack being put in the wrong place. He always insisted on doing the driving, even when we went places in my car. Now he looks like a little boy being led by his Mommy.
I’m almost embarrassed to ask this because by the age of 58 and after 16 years living with this man I am ashamed to say that for all those years I went along with his increasingly darker and darker desires to the point where I didn’t even feel like it was me who was doing those things with him. I won’t go into all the details but suffice it to say that he wanted to be called “Master,” he liked to call me his slave. His favorite term in the last few years was to call me “his little fucktoy,” and I can’t remember a single instance of sex with him where I was not called a c**t, a whore, a slut, and many other names that now seem so creepy to me, like “hot little teenager.” He also verbalized rape fantasies on me and most of our sex actually only consisted of me giving him blowjobs on command. There are some other horrific details that I have been telling my therapist, but before that I never told anyone about any of this.
At the beginning, 16 years ago, it seemed a bit kinky and a little exciting and because I loved him, I felt it was my duty to please him, but now looking back on it I feel completely and totally exploited. Worse than that, at age 58 now that he has discarded me for OW, I feel like I wasted my entire middle age years with a sick sexual exploiter and that now that I am menopausal and so emotionally ravaged by what he did to me, that I will never experience sexual intimacy the way I always dreamed of when I was younger.
I confronted him during the aftermath of D-Day, a couple of months ago, and told him that I felt abused by him and he just dismissed it with the comment that these were just “innocent bedroom games.” Another time I brought it up again and told him it was dehumanizing and I felt like I’d been used like a blow up doll, and he said, “Yes, well, the sex did get a little out of hand.” I also told him that a lot of the time I felt like I wasn’t even really there and in typical narcissist fashion he turned this around and used it to say that I was therefore admitting that I not there emotionally there for HIM.
When I met this man 16 years ago I was a mid-40s single mom who was not sexually naïve and had previously been married for 10 years. He is not particularly good looking, but he uses his charm and sexual staying power to seduce. We started living together and I admit, the sex was probably what got me hooked at first then all of his other verbal skills, companionability, he was nice to my children (until we lived together then he showed his dark, angry side). I am 5 months from D-Day now and only 26 days NC, but learning so much from your site and others, and from my therapy. But I continue to be mystified about the sexual angle and have not been able to figure it out: are lots of cheaters/narcissists also into dom/sub sex?
And can someone “switch” from dom to sub in a “poof?”
In the last five months I have also discovered that he was doing phone sex, that he kept a photo on his computer of a 12 year old girl he knew in another state when he was 31 years old, he had a photo of his former girlfriend bound and gagged on his computer, and he also admitted to using pornography.
For the last ten years I have also suspected that he is into gay sex, in part because he admitted early in our relationship that he had “tried it once.” In reviewing his cell phone records, I saw that for about a year, Ex had four or five calls a day with one particular guy who had broken up with his longtime boyfriend. And when I kicked Ex out on D-Day, besides moving most of his personal possessions to OW’s house, he also moved his entire workshop and all his tools to that gay guy’s house.
I am coming to the conclusion that Ex is some type of sex addict, I’m just not sure. All of his sexuality seems to revolve almost exclusively around servicing his you-know-what. It seems that he would accept that servicing from anyone regardless of age or gender. This is very creepy to me! I have now told my best friend and a few others including my daughter and my (gay) brother about this and they are all horrified that I did these things, and that I went along with it, and the tell me that he is sick, sick, sick.
His new woman, by all indications, is not a mousy little submissive in her appearance or her personality. I don’t know her but she was married and divorced 20 years ago to a mutual friend of ours, and since the cheating relationship came out in the open, friends have stepped forward to tell me that they “don’t think it will last” and that “she is steering that boat,” and so on. So when he told me that “his whole sexuality changed” when he met her, is that code for she is a dominatrix? Or is he just a sick, confused, disordered person who will fuck anything and everyone that he has the opportunity to fuck? One of the “stupid shit” things he said after I discovered OW was “I don’t know what you are so upset about — All I did was take advantage of an offer!”
As I am writing this I am realizing now that what I had with him was not “love” or even “sex” in the sense of it being a consensual, loving, intimate sharing act between two people. I am so ashamed of myself and sad for the sixteen lost years of letting this deranged person act out his fantasies on me, because (as my therapist and I have discussed) I was so desperate to keep the relationship together to make up for my prior divorce, that I would literally do anything to please him.
While I really don’t care anymore about his sex life, because I am completely through with him and hope I never see him again. I still can’t help wondering though, if someone who was so controlling, had narcissistic rages with me when he didn’t get his way, and was ONLY excited by being dominant, could himself now turn into a submissive.
TheMuse
Dear TheMuse,
Does he like it in a box? Does he do it with a fox? Does he do it sub or dom? Does he do it with aplomb?
It does not matter if he does it in a box, with a fox. If he does it sub or dom, if he does it with aplomb. What matters is not the style. What matters is he’s a PEDOPHILE.
TheMuse, I saw your comment a couple days ago about the photo of the 12-year-old girl in another state. You didn’t say what kind of photo it was, but as it was there next to the picture of his former girlfriend bound and gagged, I’m going to make an educated guess that he had it there to jerk off to. You need to call the police in that state and give them what you have on him. If you think you’re making too much of this, let THEM be the judges of that.
This guy is a sicko. A sociopath. And people like this leave a trail of victims. Frankly, I’d be very worried he didn’t sexually act out with your children (not like the rages weren’t bad enough). I’m sorry, because I know you have enough on your plate, but please tell the authorities what you know about this freak and his associations with that child. And get your kids, even if they’re young adults now, some therapy ASAP.
Back to you — the best thing that could’ve happened to you is that he LEFT. Thank God for menopause or his boredom or whatever you think drove him away from you. For the love of all that is holy, STOP obsessing about his sex life. How much taller the OW is, how she holds him, if she likes it on top, if she’s dom and he’s sub now — WTFever. There is only ONE thing you need to know about this man’s sexuality — it’s ABUSIVE.
Kink is one thing. No judgement to the kinky. But this isn’t 59 Shades of Grey. It’s 59 Shades of Fucked Up. He’s not pretending to be your “master” — he is a disordered piece of shit who really, truly thinks he is your master. That you are there to service his dick, pay his bills as the breadwinner, and endure his rages. He is All Powerful, and you not worth the dirt on his boot.
What you’re wondering about is the same thing every chump worries about in the beginning — are they going to be different for someone else? Is it just me that they abuse? Have they made a total turnabout for this other person?
You express that as a question about his sexuality. He dominated me. Is he going to be submissive for the next person? Was it HER? Did she make him be a different person because she’s so powerful and bossy? Will she not take his shit?
TheMuse, I’m giving you the same advice I give everyone — TRUST THAT HE SUCKS. He’s a sociopath for everyone. That’s who he is — an abusive piece of shit. She just “stole” an abusive piece of shit from you, and she’s going to regret it.
Your job here is to sing the Hallelujah chorus. And stay in some deep, deep therapy to undo this mindfuck and ask yourself why you tolerated such treatment. Was divorce such a blemish, was being a single mom so bad that this horrible man seemed like a refuge? Was being coupled with this monster truly better than a life as a single woman? So much so that you hung in there for 16 years, and obsess about him now to the point of hiring a PI after the fact?
Let him GO! I’m glad you say you don’t want him back, but your actions say otherwise. As I recall, you weren’t married to him, right? So you don’t need the PI for a divorce. It’s just to know what he’s up to. To examine the photos and see if you can intuit what kind of kink he’s into today. This shit is pointless, TheMuse. It’s untangling the skein.
You know way more than enough to conclude he is a dreadful human being. Sex is just one way he acts out his dreadfulness, how he draws people into is web so he can use and abuse them. Today he’s a dom, tomorrow he’s a sub. Yesterday he likes gay sex. Last year he was a pedophile. It’s all just about HIM. These people are there to service him. They mean nothing to him. You meant nothing to him. The only friend he has in the world is his dick. If he is submissive to anyone, it’s that dick.
You’re kicking a drug, TheMuse. Sociopath sex. They say it’s the same with Borderline women, I hear. The sex is really intense. The focus is complete, in that moment anyway. The reason BDSM is so exciting, why it’s a favorite kink with many is that it feels as if all the focus is on YOU and you alone. This person wants you, really bad. And isn’t that flattering? Perhaps they’ll tie you up so you don’t get away. You have this imaginary bond of… bondage.
Being his “slave” made you special. You gave value by acting out his perverted fantasies. So it’s a real insult to learn that you’re not special. He’s got other people to be freaky with. Hell, he doesn’t even want a slave anymore! He’s not even into that now! This is where the outrage comes about the OW.
She didn’t make you un-special. No one is special to this man, except as a victim.
Please report him. And stay absolutely no contact with this sociopathic wing nut forever.
Yes, Chump Lady. As soon as she mentioned that he had a picture of a 12 old is when everything else I was reading took a back seat. She needs to call the law now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do not wait!
I should have mentioned that the photo was from 20 years ago so the 13 year old is an adult now but yes, I have seriously considered reporting it anyway. Of more concern is that a good friends’ daughter has been exposed to this man in the last few years. I have absolutely no proof of anything but I always had a queasy feeling when he was picking her up, sitting her on his lap, etc. I of course grilled my own daughter who is 30 now and was 13 when X and I got together. My daughter is gay and says he never tried anything but she never liked him. However, my brother told me 2 mos ago that when he told X all those years ago that my daughter was gay, X said, “No I don’t think so, and I know what it’s like to have a 13 year old girl be aroused by me.” I didn’t know that till 2 months ago and am not sure what to do about any of this, it is creepy and scary.
It sounds like you need to talk to your good friend and warn her. Your therapist should be able to help you do this.
Thank God he never actually abused your daughter. From his comment, though, I think he may have behaved in a sexual manner towards her without actually abusing her (abusers do this). For example tickling and flirting and acting in a way that another adult may understand as sexualized, but a kid won’t see. Even a young teen might not see it because the idea of an adult or parent wanting them is too weird. This kind of behavior can also be harmful and a kid might need therapy for it. It’s hard to say, though. Your daughter may not want to face that he thought that way about her right now, so I’m not sure it’s a good idea to push it.
You probably should talk to your therapist about this, though, and if you might have missed any signs.
““No I don’t think so, and I know what it’s like to have a 13 year old girl be aroused by me.”
0_o
He has a 20-year-old photo of a 12 year old. THAT YOU KNOW OF.
That doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have more, current ones. And this quote makes me concerned that he might not have photos, but there is a possibility that he has had inappropriate encounters with young girls that you didn’t know about. You could report him and this could blow up. You never know what may be on his computer. He might not, but report it anyway and if there’s nothing, then there’s nothing. But if there’s more, then he’s in trouble.
If only it was so easy. If she reports him and there is an enquiry, she has crossed a Rubicon, and he will now not just be her sometimes abusive ex, but her mortal enemy. Remember he is part of the family. He has a relationship with her children and other people close to her.
The girl from twenty years ago who’s picture was on his computer is now 33 perhaps with children of her own. She will have a police detective knocking on her door with her husband and children around explaining a situation that she in fact may not even remember. These things have consequences. Innocent people can be hurt.
Remember he was in a household with a 13 year old step daughter and never touched her. Made a stupid comment, but stupid comments aren’t crimes.
I remember reading about the Roman Polanski affair with a 13 year old girl in the 70’s. That was in fact a rape. The girl ( now women) said she felt much more violated by the police attention and media attention than she was by anything Polanski did to her. This could get very ugly very fast.
RR, I understand your concern. You don’t want to condemn the guy (however much of a POS he is otherwise) or jump to conclusions. If the picture isn’t sexual in nature, yes, it’s a very hard call. I think what we’re all reacting to is the overall picture of circumstantial evidence. His souvenirs, his secrecy, the tubs of God knows what, the confiscated computers, and his comments and creepiness around preteen girls.
I think that’s why people are saying ask a professional about this. Someone trained to sort the suspicion from the evidence.
It’s one thing to enjoy kinky sex. Lots of people do. He goes way beyond that, IMO. Personally, I’d rather err on the side of safety. If that kid is 33 now with children of her own and someone knocked on the door, she might think like a mother — I’d rather someone ask me and me tell them it’s nothing, than ignore this. If it’s nothing, there’s nothing to be embarrassed about.
As for Polanski — the police and media, as I recall, didn’t BELIEVE her, they sided with Polanski the Artist. I think we’ve come along way about awareness around sexual abuse since then.
I disagree entirely with RR. Very recently I sat with a friend in a courtroom where a man that she considered one of her best friends, family friends, he was always invited to Christmas and Thanksgiving, her family would join his family for holidays, etc, was sentenced to 25 years in prison for creating a fake online persona and persuading children to send him sexual images of themselves. Her 14 year old son was one of his victims. (He preyed on his best friends SON!) He posed as a 15 yr old girl to draw her son into an online relationship. NO ONE suspected this guy. It took the federal authorities 3 years of investigation from the time she reported to the day he was sentenced. His victims were numerous and all over the US.
As we are all aware of here, what we KNOW of is usually just the tip of a very giant iceberg. I absolutely believe children need to be protected at all costs, even if it means inconveniencing or potentially upsetting past victims.
CL is spot on – report and let the professionals decide.
I hear your concern. But by “asking a professional” the OP is actually pushing the nuclear button. Her ex will have to spend tens of thousands of dollars defending himself even if he is totally innocent. He as been a part of the OP’s family for years, and this will tear that apart. He will now become actively hostile. All for what? A photo of a young girl from long ago?
Ok, I agree, the guys sounds creepy. But he’s not a child rapist. He’s had tons of opportunities and didn’t do anything. At best he’s a gold star pedophile, attracted to adolescents but never does anything about it.
The Roman Polanski issue I mentioned was recent. He was in the news a few years ago because he left France and was arrested by Swiss authorities. It was a question if he would be extradited to the US for those rape charges from the 70’s (which he seved time for btw). The media descended on the poor women who was the victim and she was pointing out that she was now being victimized all over again. My point is that this girl in the photograph my be in the same position. Now she will be interrogated, now she will have to appear in court, now her family is wondering what happened to her, and she may not even remember it. She only appeared in a photograph from twenty years ago.
Kara, the morning after D-day (night i kicked him out), he removed three computers from our house. He forgot about the folder with the family photos was in a shared folder which is how I accessed it. Everything in his other computers was always on total lockdown and every folder was password protected. I can’t prove anything. all I know is that it made me uneasy that he saved that photo, tagged it with her age 12 and that she was in 5th grade and he took the photo when he was 31. That plus the comment he made about my own daughter when my brother told X that my daughter was gay when she was 13, X said, “Oh I don’t think so, because I KNOW what it’s like to be in a room with a 13 yr old girl who is aroused by me,” and his odd, “playful” (lots of hugging, picking up and swinging around, sitting on lap” with our friends’ daughter including her running up to him and jumping up on him putting both her arms and legs around him, and him not objecting). It ALWAYS weirded me out. Long before he cheated on me. I’m very torn about whether to talk to her parents, they are close friends of mine and were both our friends, they may very well think I’m insane and vindictive.
All of that, above, plus after D-day when he came back to retrieve his personal property, he grilled me on whether I had gone through his desk, his computer folders and a plastic storage tub that was in the office closet. I didn’t know about the tub but almost wish I had. But as ChumpLady said to me, I already know ENOUGH ABOUT HIM to know he is an abusive disordered sicko.
Report anyway. Maybe one of our many chump lawyers can weigh in here, but is there a statute of limitations on pedophilia? Look at those lawsuits against priests in the Catholic church. Much of that happened when the victims were adults. And talk to your friend about her daughter. You should read The Gift of Fear. It will help you pay attention to your gut, those queasy feelings.
Each jurisdiction is different. However, most have all but done away with any limitation on prosecution of crimes involving child pornography and pedophelia. Including the Federal government; which has tremendous power to investigate without probable cause and a warrant. Not illegally per se, but by the sheer force of their ability to gather information against someone.
If you drop the dime on this cat they will find out if he has the ick factor when it comes to kids.
And, in my experience, once a pedophile, always a pedophile.
She could run his name through the national sex offender registry http://www.nsopr.gov/?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
Years ago I was a writer for the Pentagon on a task force for sexual assault in the military. I had to go to a lot of briefings on sex crimes. Gave me nightmares.
One of the takeaways was these guys fly under the radar, trusted community members and all, and one predator equals a LOT of victims. I say, give what you have on him to the authorities and let them decide.
Yesterday I spoke to my therapist about all of this and he agreed there is ample cause for concern. The next steps are I’m talking to my attorney about it and will also contact a sex abuse organization in my city to set up a meeting about what to do next. Thanks for all of your advice.
Unless the photo of the 13 year old girl is sexually explicit (I don’t think it was mentioned that it was), he didn’t comment any crime. Having a fantasy about a young girl who one knew twenty years before my seem unsavory, but it’s not against the law. Remember that those Cathloic Priests raped children. It doesn’t appear this man has harmed anyone.
Taking the kink out of it, just look at the big picture of your life with him, and ask yourself this: How did Cheater make you feel, overall? How did your relationship with him affect your self-esteem, in your life?
The answer to that will let you know how to move on. My guess is he wasn’t at all good for you and you’ll do well to keep you distance from him.
LiningUpDucks, the easy answer is most of the time he made me feel like shit. He controlled me and abused me. Intellectually I know all this and am getting therapy for why I was so “desperate” to hang on 🙁 it’s an addiction, I think. This dialogue is helping me get the crack out of my veins.
Hell yes! Fall on your knees and give thanks that you are no longer with this man. He not only sucks, he sucks epically! His vortex of suckiness is such that you are still being sucked in.
His sex life is his sex life. It. Does. Not. Matter. As long as what he does is between consenting adults, then it’s none of your concern.
What is your concern is that he very likely jacks off to pictures of prepubescent girls. Before you make the call to the police, have a chat with your children. Tell them that now that you’re getting your head straight after being married to Psycho, the picture of the 12-year-old clicked in your brain, and you would like to know if he made ANY inappropriate overtures in their direction.
If you’re very lucky, the answer will be no.
If it is yes, then you need to report that to the police when you make the call about the little girl. And yes, you need to make that call.
Then get yourself into therapy. You have been systematically abused for 16 years. You really don’t know “normal.” Get your children in therapy, even if they’ve not been molested. They’ve been abused, too.
Don’t sweat whether or not you’re past your sexual peak. My parents were going at it like bunnies long past the age when most people think that sex is a vague memory. You can have sex after menopause. That you’re thinking about their sex life suggests that yours is probably absent. Get a battery-operated boyfriend in the short term, and also get involved in social groups so that you can at least meet normal people.
I’d advise against getting back in the dating pool until you fix your picker.
So, here’s the takeaway. You’ve been a victim for 16 years. Your Ex is a flaming pile of shit whose only good action was to dump you so that he could go victimize someone else. He did not dump you because the sex with OW was so much better because she’s a dominatrix and gosh! if only you’d known you would have been his top. He dumped you because he is a sick, sick, SICK bastard who should probably be behind bars.
You are an abuse survivor. Get the help you need to make the next 16 years a hell of a lot better than the last 16 years.
“The only friend he has in the world is his dick. If he is submissive to anyone, it’s that dick.”
That’s so funny CL. It would be even funnier if it wasn’t the sad truth about this sado-masochist.
Muse, you are so much better off without this guy. He isn’t capable of true intimacy, and that’s what most normal people need in order to have a loving and satisfying sexual relationship. When you don’t get that you tend to shut down, and they go off looking for their thrill somewhere else. You are obsessing about him and why he left in order to escape the terrible feelings of shame you have from being used. In time, as you get stronger, you’ll be able to focus more on yourself and deal with your feelings. As my counselor told me, your task isn’t in figuring out why he did what he did, but why you stayed so long in an abusive relationship.
It seems to me, he is stuck in a pattern of seeing roles, like he is creating a play. He does not lead an authentic life. Once he decided the “play” he was interested in seeing required him to be a sub, he flipped. So, to answer your question, yes… I do believe he could switch from dom to sub instantly, because he is living a fake life on a stage in his mind.
There is nothing to say I am right. I am not trying to pass a judgment here either. I heartedly endorse couples to enjoy each other and their sexuality desires, so long as they are respectful and healthy unto them. But, in this case, it seems he was less committed to the relationship and you, than to his own selfish desires.
I know you hurt at the loss of a 16 year relationship. It sounds like you were committed to him and the relationship. I’m not as sure he was committed to you, as much as he was to the play he wanted to direct and star in.
A perve…is a perve…is a perve. I’d bet $$ he liked your pubes shaved –a la the prepubescent look–, and preferred you to be very thin, too. This is one messed up dude.
Please find out if he has ever been sexually inappropriate with any of your children in any way, and if so take legal action against him.
Be grateful that he has departed your life! PLEASE do not weaken and allow him to return.
I hope you are in a position to afford family therapy (you and your kids) to overcome the emotional trauma of having lived with a perverted control freak.
Make a new life…don’t look back.
notyou, no to the shaving but yes to some other strange possibly pedophilish behaviors like enjoying spanking and calling me bad. I am just sick over all of this, no offense to people who mutually consent to this type of sex. My own children are okay. I am getting weekly therapy and it’s helping a lot. I am still encouraging my kids to try too, but it’s more removed from them as they are all adults now.
Glad to hear you’re getting therapy. As long as your kids are now adults, they get to make their own decisions regarding therapy, though if anything inappropriate did transpire, I would strongly suggest letting them know that they should seek out counseling. That trauma doesn’t go away by itself.
Hi TheMuse:
I think the facts that he has given himself permission to a) carry around a picture of this child and b) in close proximity to his personal porn cache; must surely be indicative of him making pedophilia ‘normal and acceptable’ to himself. It is therefore obviously a worry that it’ll be merely a matter of time before he’ll be justifying / rationalising why he should act on his ‘urges’. And this is the kindest assessment – based on the hope that he hasn’t abused a child as yet (I got the impression you felt he’d been involved with this little girl). This is too important a matter to ignore (I am sure you know) and you really should hand this over to professionals to decide what level of danger he really poses. Lets hope he hasn’t moved from fantasy to reality – but he certainly sounds like a sex addict and barely able to put his sexuality in perspective. It’s likely, should he suspect the heads up to the authorities came from you, that he’ll try to present you as bitter and vengeful for ‘shopping him’ – but stay strong – be clear on this, you could be (probably will be) saving a child or even children from the life-long distress caused by sexual abuse – and that really is much more noble than saving him from investigation by the people who can recognise these despicable abusers. Better safe than sorry is the way to go here.
As for your question re has he gone from dom to sub? Of course, who cares really (well, at this moment, you do, obviously). Perhaps a kind thought (for you and your self-esteem) is that you sated his desire for that sexual fantasy? Is there a way you can take some comfort from this, rather than hurt yourself with concerns about him now seeking a different sexual experience? In the end, I do believe, you won’t give a flying f**k about what’s getting his rocks off. Hopefully, your therapist will help you to fully – intellectually/emotionally understand and accept that he used and abused you – and that honey, is on HIM not YOU.
Kindest thoughts
Jayne
The Muse, I want to focus on one point regarding your post. And this is based on experience with sociopaths and what I have witnessed firsthand. YES, when the disordered discovers someone who is even more dominant than s/he is, the previously dominant partner can become a submissive and consider the affair partner/new spouse to be a surrogate mommy or daddy. BUT, this only seems to occur if the affair partner/surrogate parent is ALSO a sociopath and higher up on the social status pecking order. EVEN SO, “trust that they suck” is the mantra here. One may look “in charge” in public, or they may take turns dominating one another, but be sure they are constantly in competition, maneuvering around each other, abusing each other, and either one-up or one-down with one another. It’s constant roller coaster drama for as long as either one cares to stand for it. To quote the goddess, it’s not sparkle…only glitter-covered turd.
You are so lucky he left. I know you are still very early in this chump club you were forced to join and you are suffering the same mental crap all of us have gone through. There is no figuring out these people simply because they are completely different then us when it comes to morals, ethics, and values. He is not worth anymore of your head time.
The comment he made to you “I don’t know what you are so upset about — All I did was take advantage of an offer!” just shows that he does not care about you or your feelings. Get the therapy you need and after a few more months you will realize that he is not worth the mental time you have given him. Stay healthy and Trust that he Sucks. We all believe in you and know you will get through this. Stay strong and keep him out of your life, Forever!
Bud, thank you. Yes, that comment in particular is chilling to me not only in how it evidences his dehumanizing treatment of me, but also of his new victim, OW.
Yes. Perfectly nice people do not knowingly fuck other people’s spouses, but no one deserves a sociopath.
Muse, I think what’s going on is he’s found someone who won’t put up with being treated like you were and gives as good or better than she gets. He now finds that exciting since the escalating humiliation of you hit a plateau, plus it takes a lot of energy to dish it out. Now he just takes. You should not give a rat’s ass about it.
Call the cops.
Good for you CL- tell it like it is!
This guy needs to be called on his psycho shit, he makes me shudder.
Muse, forget him, please. I hope you’re getting better, away from that worm. Any life would be better that what he sold you on! Stay with your therapist, explore what just happened to you. It’s OK, you’re probably lonely, but seriously, you don’t need that Ahole to tell you what to do or how to live. Try to embrace your freedom, it takes time but you can get there!
I think maybe you should be careful who you tell about the sex, it’s really no one’s business, and you shouldn’t let it define you anymore. Especially your kids, they don’t need to know all that, it’s too much for kids to bear that burden. Save that for therapy, and try to create a new life, with new ideas about sex! You’re only 58! (I ‘m 59, and I plan to have a fun, sexy life for a long time, myself).
Sending you love, and healing. You can get over this. Why don’t you pretend he got run over by a tank or something? He doesn’t matter, but you, my dear, do!
His sexuality didn’t change overnight. People try kinks for the thrill and then they need to get more and more extreme. Eventually they need to try something new – in his case, submission.
Yes, he is a sex addict. He is a very dangerous sex addict and you must not try to cure him.
The scary thing, though is that he used the kinks as an excuse to be an abusive husband. It spread from the bedroom and became the way he behaved and you were supposed to accept it because it was somehow about sex.
Please listen to CL and get help for your kids and a lawyer. Be ready to need a protective order, etc.
Take care of yourself and good luck.
By-the-way, I totally get what you mean by at first you thought, Hey, ok – spice is nice!’ – my ex was utterly obsessed by a fantasy of watching me have sex with other men. At first, because it seems like a mutual, exploratory adult play-time, it’s great! But every single time you have sex together? Eventually, I too started to feel like this was no longer a mutual game and that I was objectified and of no more significance than a blow-up doll or similar sex aid. I foolishly believed I was in a loving relationship and how I felt might be important (lol) and told him I was no longer comfortable with his obsession – he’s since used my speaking up as a reason for his affair (though his obsession in our sessions did not desist, even once! – and he told me she was ‘inhibited-sexually’ – whatever that meant! So bless the poor sausage, us girlies were such a let down, were we not??? :-D). As someone, hopefully, who isn’t a narcissistic sociopath – I do believe I’d have been mortified had he told me he thought I was obsessing over enacting any fantasy of mine and that he was starting to feel objectified – and truthfully – I get my personal rocks off from the thrill of us BOTH being turned on by what we are sharing – but hey – they seem to be happy with their own justifications, regardless of whatever that says about them – just another example of how we really can’t connect with how these fuckwits think!
Bollocks and poo to em – that’s what I say! 😀
Thank you ChumpLady and other commenters,
I know I needed and still need to be knocked upside the head and reminded of just how wrong this all was and is, and that I need to STOP obsessing about OW and his sex with her. When I hired the PI to watch OW and him, I knew it was already “too late” but in a way just wanted to visually see it to force myself to believe it. Yes, it is pointless to try to try to untangle his massive fuckedupness!!!
This in particular rings true that you said, “he is a disordered piece of shit who really, truly thinks he is your master. That you are there to service his dick, pay his bills as the breadwinner, and endure his rages. He is All Powerful, and you not worth the dirt on his boot.” That he thought he really WAS my master is clear in the fact that he felt entitled to cheat on me…. and the only friend he has in the world is his dick and I agree that as you said in brilliant Dr. Suessian fashion, he would do it with a [xxx] fill in the blank. I told my best friend X would fuck a sheep or a dog if it made him feel like the Master.
Also true that I feel deeply ashamed and abused. And yes, it is like kicking a drug. You are spot on that it hooked me in, and made me feel ‘special’ though I know I didn’t ‘like’ it the way he did.
The pedophilish thing is of concern to me… as I said in another comment below the photo of the 13 year old girl was from 20 years ago but what creeped me out was he kept the picture all these years and then scanned it into his personal photos folder which was a retrospective of his life. The girl is an adult now, for sure. Should I still report it? what about her privacy? My own now 30 year old daughter swears X never tried anything on her but we have a family friend with a daughter who is currently 11 years old and over the years X was very uncle-like friendly with her, sitting her on his lap, hugging her a lot and shit, and then in June of 2013, a month before D-Day, we had seen her at a friends party and after the party in the car on the way home, X said wistfully to me that he thought it was a shame that she was getting older now and growing up. I got sick to my stomach and thought that not a normal reaction. I am so upset about this, I don’t know whether to tell her parents or not about the photo from 20 years ago. Help!
Sexual deviants tend to collect “souvenirs” from their conquests. He kept the photo all these years and bothered enough to scan it and save it into a folder about his life?
Sure sounds like a souvenir to me.
LiningUpDucks, yes he kept the photo which was taken in 1987 when he was 31 and then scanned it into his computer in 2010 when he was scanning in all his childhood and family photos. There are a series of photos with women’s names as the title (yes, there is one — only one — of me). This one just had a name like IMG00010.jpg which made me suspicious so I opened it and looked at the tags. The tags say the girl’s name, and then “5th grade, 12 years old.” It’s not a naked photo by any means (she’s fully clothed) but the girl is preteen, standing alone in a kitchen and posing in what looks like a dance pose. There are no adults in the scene. He has no relatives with the same last name as her. I looked her up on FB and found a person with her name who according to her timeline, moved out of that State where X was in 1987 to another state shortly after that. And shortly after that, X moved to the city where I met him. Where he didn’t know a soul except a woman he met in the first state who he followed here then dumped when he got here. IT’S ALL SO WEIRD. I also thought that photo looked like a souvenir.
I don’t know how things are in the US – but here in the UK it is possible to make an anonymous call to the authorities. Why not call the equivalent of ‘Childline’ and discuss this concern with a professional. My good friend and neighbour investigates accusations of child abuse and he would always prefer to look into ‘over-cautious’ worries than be ignorant. Look at it as ‘above your pay grade’ – you would feel dreadful if you ever heard about any abuses by your ex and you hadn’t gone with your gut feelings. I personally wouldn’t approach this child’s parents – God knows where that could lead – please speak to professionals – call them – now!
Jayne x
PS
I strongly urge you NOT to approach the parents of the child you are concerned about. Nor the child (now adult) from 20 years ago. Who knows how people would react to this emotive subject and there have been murders based on rumour and suspicion here in the UK – I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case too in the US. I reiterate: look at this as ‘above your pay grade’ and hand the concern over to the authorities. The worst case scenario is that your gut feeling was wrong and some people (including him) were inconvenienced and felt uncomfortable for a while.
You are questioning what to do because,after 16 years of being abused you have lost faith in your own gut feelings. That’s normal. You’ve been living with cognitive dissonance for a huge amount of time – in order to survive you’ve been doubting your own reality – that’s normal.
Re this question of pedophile tendencies: your gut is telling you something is wrong. Maybe you are being hypervigilant, that’s not a crime – pedophilia is a crime. Don’t take responsibility for having to put a case together for the authorities – they are the experts, you are not. You will not be behaving immorally by notifying the very people who should be dealing with this concern.
Pedophiles are clever. They operate in all social classes, creeds, colour, sex, age – it’s important you give this problem to the people who can solve it. Please!
Jayne x
You need to tell them. Imagine if someone didn’t tell you something like that about your kids. Get your therapist to help you.
I think you may also need to tell them more than that so they take it seriously – he was abusive to you, he is a sex addict, and he has a taste for BD/SM. That is information they should have if he is around their kid.
Re: the older photo – if you know the girl, contact her and talk to her about it. Maybe she’s been abused and needs to get therapy. Maybe she wasn’t, but she needs a warning to stay away from him.
I’m not sure if you need to report it to the police. I don’t think they can act on the possibility that he has fantasies about pedophilia – it’s not actual porn, is it? (If he has any child pornography, you do need to report him. Talk to your therapist and maybe a lawyer.)
Did the PI look to see if your ex had any record of abusing kids or any evidence that he has now?
Yesterday I spoke to my therapist about all of this and he agreed there is ample cause for concern. The next steps are I’m talking to my attorney about it and will also contact a sex abuse organization in my city to set up a meeting about what to do next.
Just a general thought about telling people about your ex and breaking up with him. It sounds like you are blaming yourself for “letting” him abuse you. It’s nobody’s business what your sex life was like and I imagine you would not want to talk about it.
However, I think you would be justified in telling people that over the years he became abusive to you – that he was controlling of things like money and driving, that he wanted to be in charge of the family, and that he had a terrible temper. If you can come up with a short, not bitter version of that, it’s a fair thing to say about why you broke up. (And if he comes back with, she liked it or it was just our kink, people are just no going to believe him.)
As I type this, I think your kids will need therapy no matter what. It can’t be easy to have an abusive step-dad running your household.
So sorry you had to go through this Muse, but everyone here is giving you excellent advice.
First thing to do is to call the authorities and make sure that there are not any other victims by this man. Speak out and spread the news so that everyone associated with him has an idea of the type of person that he is. Once you get that list cleared, keep focusing on healing yourself and sharing your wisdom with other chumps.
Thankfully, life has given you another chance and you did not waste another 15 years with this guy.
Find support from friends and family and surround yourself with people who love you for who you are.
Good luck!!
TheMuse,
Report this disordered, sociopathic, perverted flaming turd from Satan’s ass to a sex-abuse hotline, if nothing else. They have information, training and contacts and they may know who should be notified.
Then, stop accepting responsibility for and beating yourself about something that was DONE TO YOU by a manipulative and abusive piece of shit. You are in therapy trying to recognize what was missing in you that allowed you to accept his abuse of you. Kink in and of itself between two consenting adults is fine, but that is really not what you experienced. What you thought you were experiencing (something “a bit kinky and exciting”) was NEVER what was happening on his end. He is definitely a narcissistically-disordered pig and very probably a sociopath. These people do not do intimacy. Sex for them is merely another means of control and manipulation – another device in their arsenal of abuse, if you will. You were doing these things because, as you say, you loved him and this was about SHARING for you. It was all abuse and masturbation for him. I thoroughly get what you are talking about as this man is my STBX’s ugly cousin.
My relationship with my STBX started out apparently normal with a lot of healthy sexual activity. Later in the relationship, he began withholding sex but accusing me of being “too tired” or of “not wanting” sex (well, yes, I would be tired since I was doing most of the physical labor in the marriage). Then I caught him peeping through a door crack watching my nude daughter (from a previous relationship) get dressed. He promised it would never happen again and promised to seek help because he “didn’t know what had come over him or why he did it.” Having been abused sexually as a child myself (of which he was aware) this was a total mindfuck on his part. He never sought help. I have since discussed this with my daughter and she said she was aware that he was always trying to peep at her and caught him herself once when he was trying to peep at her while she was taking a shower. He NEVER even attempted to molest her, although he would abandon me on vacations and spend time with her as if she were his wife – instead of walking with me and having meals with me, doing that with her. It was part of the mindfuck. His interest leans toward girls barely past the age of consent.
Later, he started wearing women’s underwear. Then he began visiting BDSM prostitutes (all of whom were college -aged – paying their way through school) where he favored “golden showers.” Then, he incorporated some of his fantasies into our sex life. I thought, we’ve been together awhile, I don’t mind a little kink to spice things up. A little role-playing can be fun. But then, there was nothing else – unless I demanded it – besides dildos and any other type of impersonal sex he could come up with. It was at this point that I began to feel all the time, as I had felt ocassionally felt throughout the marriage, as though he was using my body to masturbate. During this entire time he was also cheating, either emotionally or physically, with other people – and I had no clue, as he was home every night for dinner and every weekend. Lucky me.
Anyone who knows him believes him to be a shining example of morality, family values, kindness and empathy. Just a poor someone who wasn’t happy in his marriage and has now fallen in love with a woman who can make him happy (Gag, barf – she’s disordered and they deserve each other). Only I know (and his children somewhat know) what a lying, manipulative, abusive, disordered, amoral and delusional sack of shit he really is.
Don’t waste another minute worrying about what kind of sex they’re having. Do you care what kind of sex fruit flies or baboons are having? What’s the difference, pray tell?
You can only own your part in it – why you were willing to sacrifice so much of yourself for someone who sacrificed nothing of themselves for you. Do like I’m doing and work on that in therapy. I have made a lot of progress and you will, too. It takes time. You have suffered years of abuse. I, too, am 58 and looking forward to a better life without that piece of raccpp, shit stuck to the bottom of shoe. I’m scraping that shit off and moving forward without that stink. Scary? Hell yes. Worth it? You bet. (((HUGS)))
As soon as I read the first line of one of your posts, CP, I know it’s you. YOu make me happy with your thrilling way with words. 🙂
Diane L and Nord,
Thank you so much. I feel your love without even seeing you.
Diane L,
Yes, I am married to a monster disguised as the nicest guy in the room. If you met him, you would not believe a word I have typed about him on this blog. He’s handsome, mystical and oh so caring and helpful, dontcha know. Until he turns feral – but that’s reserved mostly for me.
Ironically enough, my daughter is a psychologist and she is very clear about the entire situation. She and I discussed it in depth a couple of months back. I never knew about the shower incident until then. Everyone keeping secrets to protect the abuser. We were classic.
She has separated out the decent father from the disordered pervert. She even told her husband about the situation and she has shared the situation with her siblings as well. Interestingly enough, the children used to tell me, “Dad’s a pervert.” In fact, they would tell him that he was a pervert. I thought they were saying it because they knew he watched porn. Apparently, they realized he had other issues as well. Because his fucked up behavior was not the sum total of our life together and I did TONS of impression management, cover-up and protection, they only know what they know, which is a lot less than what occurred. In spite of the structural abuse (I recognized our family operation in Lundy Bancroft’s book when he described the abuser in every day life), my children have turned out amazingly well. I have tried to convince them all to get therapy to work out whatever problems they have, but because they are adults, I can’t force them. So far, one of them is in counseling.
I credit my therapist and this community of people (CL’s no holds barred, laser-focused bullshit dissection yanked the remaining scales from my eyes) for ripping away the last vestiges of lies and excuses that I was making to try NOT to see the shit-covered beast from the deepest recesses of hell for who he really is.
I am so grateful to CL for starting this blog and to all of you for sharing your stories which let me know I was not alone.
How weird. My ex is handsome, charming and always the nicest guy in the room. And I believed that about him until everything came out in the wash – and as soon as I found out what he’d been doing for years – and started telling people close to me – he turned into a person I’d never seen before: angry, spiteful, bitter, filled with rage, truly, truly evil in his treatment of me and even of the kids at times. It was so shocking that I didn’t want to believe it and I didn’t believe it for awhile, that this was who he really is. I tried to find ‘reasons’ for his complete change in personality because it just wouldn’t gel in my head that I didn’t see this part of him for the best part of 20 years. And then I had to face up to facts: he really was this person and the act he’d been putting on for all those years was a very, very good one.
It’s an odd thing to discover about someone: they can pretend to be a certain kind of person but underneath they’re someone else entirely. It’s quite scary, actually, but finally believing it made me move forward and mentally quit him.
But damn, how do people do this? I can imagine what it would take to keep your real self under wraps for your entire life! Even now he’s playing the same act he played with me with final OW. Poor thing, she’s going to be in for a very rude awakening at some point.
“My ex is handsome, charming and always the nicest guy in the room. And I believed that about him until everything came out in the wash – and as soon as I found out what he’d been doing for years – and started telling people close to me – he turned into a person I’d never seen before: angry, spiteful, bitter, filled with rage, truly, truly evil in his treatment of me ”
Nord, that was my exact experience as well. For 20 years, I never saw the rage, the hatred, the DEMON inside my ex. Sure, I knew he was self-absorbed and immature. But I absolutely believed he was the nicest guy, a loving (albeit attention whore) husband, and a genuinely kind person. In fact, I told him those things all the time. What cake!
When I first saw his real, demon face, sneering at me with hatred shortly after dday, I was so startled and frightened, I actually backed away from him to get away. Like you, Nord, it took me a long time to understand that the demon was the REAL him, the nice guy face was just a very good act.
It boggles my mind how he manages to keep up that charade so successfully and for so long. I cannot even imagine the energy it must take to fake oneself nonstop.
Nord,
I always thought my STBX was what he represented to me – the kind, thoughtful, unappreciated, misunderstood poor sausage. If I am honest with myself, once he knew I was hooked, who he really was would rear its ugly head frequently. I just didn’t understand what I was seeing because I had already bought into his version of who he was. Consequently, he could always present a rational explanation (rationalization) for why he would do the foul things he did. He was ALWAYS EXTREMELY passive-aggressive – I just had never experienced anything like it so for years I never even had a name for it. I could never reconcile the man who operated in the public sphere with the moody, angry stranger I frequently encountered in private. He convinced me that it was me, or the kids or his family that caused his problems.
He has been showing me who he is for years – I didn’t allow myself to believe him. I’m a believer now and I’m glad I’m out.
I have purchased the Lundy Bancroft book and will start reading it. Thank you so much for all your good advice and sharing your story. It’s disheartening to know that you went through this horrible shit too.
CP – I believe very strongly that peeping at your daughter and treating her like his romantic love interest was sexual abuse. She will at some point in her life need therapy for it. There is so much messed up stuff there – being afraid in your own house. Thinking that this is normal behavior in a man. Trying to figure out how to relate to someone when they seem to care about you, but should be caring about your mother.
Thank God it did not become physical sexual abuse, but it was molestation. Most people who were abused will say at least it wasn’t worse and that’s true, but it’s also a way to not feel the pain of how bad it was.
I really admire you for all you have done and getting your life back together, by the way.
Chump Princess, thank you for sharing this and I can see from your story why you understand. Yes, I think therapy is helping me recognize WHY I went along with the sexual exploitation. I am totally NC now and will stay that way. I’m NC almost a month now and I know it’s what I must do. He really mindfucked me enormously in the 16 years so it’s going to take some time and massive effort but I have started, 5 months now post D-Day, therapy for the last 3 months, and the NC. Only the legal battle over the shared house is looming and I have retained a lawyer (even though I am one) and an accountant so that I don’t have to interact with X directly.
Your post helped me see how the abuser can gradually introduce the BDSM acts and got me to accept them as ‘normal’ or ‘just pleasing him’ over time to the point where they were every sexual interaction between us. I know I didn’t deserve to be used this way. It’s taking longer to feel like myself again after 16 years.
I have good days and bad days. On a good day I am content knowing that I will never hear again, “Down on your knees! Worship my cock!” and having my jaw hurt after getting my “face fucked” as he liked to say. Sometimes I wonder if the TMJ my dentist said I have (and the vertigo episodes I get) might be from all that but I don’t know. I don’t know if I’ll ever have another relationship or ever experience loving, intimate sex. For now all I know is I have to survive. I owe it to my children and my other family members to be there for them. This blog is wonderful and thank you so much for the (((HUGS))).
Muse, believe me, you can get there. While my ex was not quite so flagrant (I’d say mine was more hidden or ambient abuse, he pretended to be an adoring husband and father, but in actuality was doing some pretty sordid and astonishing things with women I thought were our friends), I was fooled for decades, and divorced 2 years ago after 25 years of marriage. Before my divorce, had a hysterectomy and was in menopause, and I am almost 53 years old. So I thought my love life and sexual life was done and the sad ugly story written.
But then one day I woke up and thought: “I am not going to go to my grave with the story of what my ex did to me as the last story in my romantic life. Fuck him.” I started dating a wonderful man. I was astonished as we grew closer how honest and normal and non sparkly he was. And sex with someone with whom I was sharing true and mutual concern, kindness, interest, and love, was and is something I had never really experienced before. And oh yes, even after menopause, the sex is, ummmm, let’s just say wonderful. We are engaged and getting married in June of this year.
So Muse, I get in some ways what you are going through, and I also admit that the abuse you went through is much much worse than what I can even imagine. But you are a lawyer, you still have your daughter and the rest of your family, you have friends, you have qualities that make you YOU, and you can still have a life and still have love if you choose. I want you to go for it, I want you to win, I do NOT want the sociopath to win. (((HUGS)))
I am so glad you are taking all the steps necessary to recover from this pile of steaming dog shit.
I believe why everyone here is suggesting that you report him to SOMEONE is that, just like in the case of my STBX, this behavior tends to escalate over time. If he is frustrated in one area, he may act out in another area. Assuming (and that’s a big assumption) he has yet to physically assault someone, if something happens to remove whatever has been holding him back from doing so, what’s to stop him?
My STBX started out the relationship with a couple of pornographic books and magazines and his behavior escalated over time. I believe he was grooming me from the time he met me. I haven’t even bothered trying to unravel what was his own fuckupedness and what was specifically directed at me because I don’t care. The result was the same – years (over 25) of soul-destroying covert abuse from which I am just beginning to recover.
I make reference to a comment you made above – nothing on your sociopath’s computers is gone – even if he has deleted it. A forensic analysis will find whatever is on his computers. That is for the proper authorities. He wants to be dominated? I’m sure there are a couple of guys on Cell Block E who would be happy to accomodate him.
And just to be clear . . .
When I caught my STBX peeping at my daughter and after I realized he had lied about going for “help,” I became hypervigilent to the point of creating a health problem for myself. I believe much of it was a mindfuck. I was constantly on edge while he played the role of attentive and loving husband and father to outsiders (Gag, belch and fart). His manner frequently had me doing a gut check, based on what I knew to be true. I was looking at him through an entirely different lens than everyone else.
He will never know the favor he did for me blowing up this marriage. I would probably still be walking through my life with him controlling the remote to my existence. Yes, Virignia, there is a God.
Chump Princess, oh my goodness. I didn’t realize you were married to a monster. Lots of hugs.
Thank you Uniquelyme!
You know you are my guiding light and lived example of where I want to be.
Yes, my STBX is one of the ringleaders of the Perverted Asshole Zombie Apocalypse. I am thankful that he is currently feasting on a grasping, willing victim. She has been after him for over 20 years and sometimes the universe will conspire to give you exactly what you want. Good luck with that Rev. Ho-Bag and enjoy!
In my case, I believe the universe may think I am ready to receive what I deserve.
What the hell is raccpp? That should be “raccoon,” thank you very much!
Where is that editor that I received for Christmas?
my bad Chump Princess, that editor I sent never made it your place!
No problem Dat!
You’re my Shero!
My editor is fired. I would appreciate a new one for Groundhog’s Day. That phrase should read, “that piece of raccoon shit stuck to the bottom of MY shoe.”
Haha Princess, I knew what you meant!!!!
ha ha I thought it was an acronym I wasn’t familiar with yet
“Roy” (x2b named by my middle son) has a brother who went to jail for possession of child porn. 1000’s of pics on his computer. Cops were onto him for a while, finally pulled the guns drawn down on the ground deal when he ordered it via the USPS and it was delivered to him, at his parents house, where he lived until a month or so ago. This all went down 9 years ago. He did jail time in the sex offender wing of the prison and that was the end of it. No counseling, no other repercussions. Moved right back in with mommy and daddy, was 27-30 through the whole thing. FAMILY said it “wasn’t that bad” because he “never actually touched a child” Really? Tell that to every single child who he jacked off to. I went with no unsupervised contact with my kids, in-laws live in California and we were in NY, IL and OH so it wasn’t like he was around us. One trip there when middle son was 3 months old, oldest was 4, I was there. Told him he needed counseling because anyone who gets off on little kids is a sick fuck. Seriously said that, and I WAS THE ONE WHO WAS WRONG per his family. One other trip when oldest was 6 and middle son was 2, I didn’t go and was suppose to be no unsupervised contact. Roy took a nap and sick fuck took my oldest bowling, with MIL permission. SO needless to say, in 5 years, sick fuck has never been around my kids, never met my youngest, we have not been back to California and sick fuck is not welcome in my home.
NOW I am doing this divorce. I AM BACK TO BEING WRONG, A BITCH because I insisted on a no contact order in the custody arrangement. IF Roy goes to see his family, NO CONTACT ORDER between sick fuck and my kids. IF Roy goes to California and breaks the no contact order, he will no longer be able to take the kids to California. The kids also MUST have a charged cell phone on them, turned on, at all times when in California, (GPS) since “its not that bad” what sick fuck did. IF Roy takes them to California, I WILL sit down my 10 & 7 year old and explain why sick fuck was in jail and why they are not to be around him.
They raised a NPD and a Pedophile. I guess given a choice, I got the better of the two, right?
As for the rest of this post…
You can color your x any way you want, he is still an abusive pos.
Give me some rough kinky sex (18 months celibate here 😉 ) any time. Call me names, pull my hair but you try that shit out of bed and I will rip your dick off and make it for dinner.
You got mind fucked honey. You can call it anything you want, you can say you even liked it. What I understand from a dom/sub relationship is that deep down, the sub is in control. What I understand about being abused is, he mind fucked you into thinking that was what you signed up for.
You can keep telling yourself you asked for it, liked it, got off on it, he trained you to. I was trained to shut up and put a smile on a fucked up relationship too. I woke up and looked around at who I was being turned into and said screw this crap, I am out. You will wake up too. You are starting to but you are still buying into the mind fuck.
I love that whole “Roy” bit! I crack up everytime I read it.
What the fuck is wrong with the in-laws? The brother was arrested! If it wasn’t “that bad,” why the hell were they able to convict him? In the words of a brilliant and creative woman, WTFuckity Fuck?!!!
The kindest thing that can happen to some people is that they be boiled in oil.
I laugh over Roy every time I picture the scene! …shut it Roy!
They actually charged sick fuck with possession, mailing it (is a whole different charge I guess? idk), and intent to sell/distribute based on conversations he had online w an fbi under cover guy that sick fuck “bought” it from. they let him plead guilty to “just” possession. lesser charge.
When we agreed on the temp custody arrangement, my lawyer put it to Roy and his attorney like this, if we go before the judge for a court ordered visitation schedule and custody arrangement, I do not know of any family court judge that would question us, if we chose to pursue it, denying “roy” the ability to take the children to California at all based on past behavior by the family and the criminal record of his brother. we are being extremely generous with what we are offering but that offer could be rescinded if we are forced to go before the judge. basically said do it my way or I won’t let him take them to California at all. Roy’s parents are in their 70’s so it won’t be an issue for long.
The mind fucking… once you are OUT and have a bit of distance, the picture is so dam clear and it is all so obvious. The subtle shit, the drip drip drip water torture, you don’t SEE that. A sick fuck pedophile, crystal clear for ME. roy’s family is so screwed up they couldn’t even see THAT MUCH IS JACKED UP. thank god they will be dead soon. wait til the funeral, try having a funeral w the kids there but no contact with the sick fuck. am I wrong for thinking that far ahead and giggling about it?
Muse, I don’t see your relationship as dom/sub. I see it as a sociopathic monster abusing a woman until she is worn to the bone. He is certainly a perverted demon, but it seems his abuse went far beyond the bedroom. Who cares if he’s “flipped his sexuality” now, or whatever nonsense he spouts? I doubt his sexuality actually matters in the slightest….. he’s an abusive monster no matter who he is with. Sex is just one of his tools for abuse. He pulled that dom/sub crap with you because it worked and it got him off. He’ll pull whatever perversion/abuse works with the next woman. His OW, you, any woman he sees….. none of them mean anything to him. Maybe his OW is a demon herself, or maybe she is a pervert and he’s turned on by that right now. Who cares? His abusive nature has NOT changed, that you can be sure of. Just thank God you are away from this demon.
I kind of have this sex-and-the-ex hangup too. In my case, I was veeeerrrry inexperienced when I got together with my ex. He shared with me his sexual encounters, one of which was supposedly with a woman who offered herself up for backdoor lovin’. According to him, he saw the used up asshole backing its way toward him and he practically ran out the door. So he denounced anal sex from the beginning, and for years…until the final year or so of our marriage. Then suddenly he became obsessed with anal, which I was unable to accommodate due to a reconstructed sphincter (tmi?). I didn’t understand why anal should be any better than any other sex, especially when you know you’re causing your partner pain, but he insisted, “it just feels different.”
Anyway, he left me for someone who he said enjoyed anal, and, if so, I guess they are a perfect match for each other and I’m sure the matching skid marks are just adorable.
I’m so done with him, but one thing does linger. I thought of myself as normal, and anal as sort of fetishy, but then as I began to survey some male friends I would hear the same fondness for anal from them as well. That old “it just feels different” thing is what they all said. So I guess I might be a prude and the only way I can see to find out is to get out there and have a sex life, which is daunting for me.
It’s all about the friction — that’s the “attraction”. I’m with Glad — nobody better ever even suggest that to me. If they’re so hung up on it, get them one of those FleshLight artificial vaginas for men and tell him to go to town.
I’ve always felt that this is why God made hemorrhoids.
I’m not a guy, but I assume it is tighter. It also seems to have an element of domination for many people.
It is also much more about his pleasure. Regular sex feels good to women, but apparently for some guys that isn’t what turns them on.
I blame Internet porn – I think far too many men are watching so much that they get to the point where they need crazier and crazier stuff and it’s not about being with a human being. That doesn’t excuse guys who act this way, though.
As for his OW – I bet she was desperate for a guy and so she’s willing to take sex that isn’t as good.
Diane I wish I could post a pic and you could see how desperate she looks. I have this candid pic of her looking so frumpy in a track suit, with her spare tire she usually tries to suck in around me, and her camel-toe. I look at it sometimes to remind myself that she is truly a downgrade. I recommend this to all chumps 😉
I have a pic someone sent me of my ex’s now-main AP, she is seriously (no offense to butts everywhere) butt-ugly. It actually made me laugh out loud, and I must admit gave me quite a bit of comfort.
You’re not a prude. No way I’d let any guy go anywhere near my ass. I don’t care if it “feels different.” Nature gave me a perfectly satisfactory orifice made expressly for lovin’ and if that isn’t good enough, then that guy isn’t good enough. Perhaps you should tell your ass-craving dude that you’d like to jam your finger down his urethra, because it “feels different.” See if he takes you up on THAT offer.
“…ass-craving dude…” HAHAHAHAHAHA! I may never stop laughing!
Hahaha love this Glad!!
Haha GIO! I actually did something along those lines. Under the guise of trying to spice things up and in the spirit of trying new things, I convinced him to let me violate his hole. It was totally disgusting, but I’d hoped it would teach him that it was painful. Of course he found it painful and did not enjoy it the way he thought I should, but he still couldn’t seem to put two and two together. He was bad at math. After that experience he continued to insist that it should be perfectly comfortable, even pleasurable, for me to be on the receiving end (rectal bleeding, fecal incontinence, and all).
LOL.
Muse, you’re on the right track. Listen to all the comments here. He did you a HUGE favor by leaving. Going forward, be good to yourself. Be glad this is all in the past and you now have the self-awareness to create a healthier future. Whenever you start thinking about what he’s up to, put that focus on yourself. In the beginning, all I could do when I was obsessed with my ex or what he was up to was telling myself, “I love you (insert your name).” In the beginning it felt lame and contrived, but I kept at it and then I started believing it and now I cannot “unbelieve” it! I really love myself now and my actions clearly show it. Even in moments when I would start daydreaming about getting back together (those messed up fantasies are now filed under ‘when hell freezes over’), I refocused on myself. Pretty soon, your ex will be in the distant past and you will be your focus, not in a narcissistic way but in a healthy manner. It’s tough to do initially because we have been so focused on making our relationships work, and unfortunately, we had forgotten that the most important relationship we have is with ourselves.
Thank you! yes the comments and ChumpLady’s response are wonderful – you are all wonderful! I just hate that all of your collective wisdom had to come from chumpitude, which I’m now a part of 🙁
I have several tricks for getting him out of my head… sometimes I just say out loud (at home alone of course), “Down on your knees! worship my cock!” and then I start laughing.
I grew up with a narcissist, like a hard core, it doesn’t get any worse than this wackadoo bitch, mom. I used to question God, why the hell did you put me here, why am I going through this, if you love me, why give me to this crazy bitch? I wasn’t ever the one to bow down to her, never one to kiss her ass. I always knew it was HER and not ME. Today I can say for a fact that God put me there with that crazy bitch for a mother, to prepare me for right now. Without Roy I wouldn’t have my babies, most important thing I have ever done in this world is my babies. Growing up with her, she taught me, she gave me a backbone, she showed me how to survive. While I got sucked in and didn’t know it, if I had not grown up like I did, I would never have been able to leave Roy. I know the game because of my mother. He can’t teach me anything, I lived this game growing up.
As for the anal debate, oh dear heaven. I think anything that is CONSENTUAL, no mind fuckery going on, is “normal.” If ya’ll both like it, if ya’ll both get off on it, go for it. I have a solid core. I was born with it, that is all I can come up with. I can be pushed, I can be talked into stupid stuff, I can put up with a lot, but there will be a point where my core will sit up and say oh hell no.
Personally, a 69 is to much for me. I have NO IDEA why bcz I have done other stuff that my bff finds shocking. 69 though, nope. Roy talked me into it one time, for like 30 sec. It isn’t about what anyone or everyone else thinks is ok or is comfortable with. Its about boundaries, personal boundaries. When they (male or female) cross the boundaries and push us to do what is not ok to us, that is abuse, mental or physical. Does that make sense?
Yes, I wish that I’d had the courage all those years to just say no to things I didn’t want to do. Therapy is helping me to understand why I did that… I will never understand the fuckedupness but I don’t need to. Thank you ChumpLady and all the commenters too. All your well reasoned and sincere responses will help me sleep well tonight.
It makes perfect sense.
OK, I laughed harder and louder than I ever have at one of CL’s quips (when I read the first paragraph of your response CL….the Dr. Seuss format is hilarious, no offense to Muse and what she has been through). It so highlights how all of us, including Muse, have futilely attempted to unravel the skein.
But then I immediately stopped laughing when I read the reference to pedophilia and the picture he had of the 12 year old girl. This guy is a sociopath, this guy will do anything and with anyone– basically there are no limits to what this guy will do to get his decrepit rocks off.
Muse, thank goodness you are away from him. Talk to your children and find out what if anything he did to them (my ex was somewhat hypersexual and believe me I had to have the same discussion with my children and they were upset to even have to hear me ask but I did, and a number of times), and if he did anything to them get them counseling and call the police. Oh, and as CL said, call the police immediately about the picture of the 12 year old. Muse, you have been abused and you have been harmed but you need to protect your children, protect yourself, make sure he is not hurting any other children, and then figure out a way to heal from what you have been through, which will take counseling, time, and staying away from him including not trying to unravel the skein.
TheMuse,
I asked why why why while growing up. Child abuse, it is rare to ever find a why. I am 39 years old and I completely understand the why today. Some ppl never get that answer.
What you went through, COMPLETE AND TOTAL ABUSE. Don’t dress it up like you were taught to. It wasn’t dom/sub. It wasn’t master/slave. I haven’t ever been in that type of relationship but have studied it. Number ONE thing that is consistent in all I have read is the love and care of the sub/slave.
I think the most important thing you MUST come to terms with is no matter what the label he put on it and what you bought, it was ABUSE.
I think you need to stop looking at it in any way shape or form a dom/sub, master/slave relationship.
I was sold the notion that my mother was strict. I am strict with my kids, well, sort of. We all have fun, use humor more than anything else to get through every day stuff as well as the crap we are all going through. There is a big ‘ole fat line of right vs wrong with us though. My kids don’t cross that line often because they KNOW where it is. We hug a lot, we laugh a lot, we apologize a lot (especially me 😉 ). I go for the throat when the line is crossed. My oldest stopped doing homework 2 weeks into the last quarter. I took away all video games, computers, tablets, and he doesn’t get it back until report cards come out. I don’t worry about the grades, I worry about the work. That is going for the throat here. I go for the maximum effect when the line is crossed. I do not hit, spank, threaten, call names… THAT is ABUSE to me. I don’t abuse my kids.
My point is, YOU have to stop with the label you were sold. I bought the label of having a strict family for a long time. I was 15’ish when I realized I was abused. It took YEARS to say it out loud. Take off the label and what YOU have is classic abuse. Look at it from the outside, how is what happened to you any different than a woman who is in a woman’s shelter?
You didn’t buy what you were sold. You didn’t buy it any more than every other woman who was in a severely abusive relationship. Stop putting the label on what he sold you. Say it out loud, you were abused and convinced it was your fault.
The classic narcissist will use up their victims, string them along but eventually toss them aside. I am in a slippery situation. I left my narc, because he was not nearly as good as my mother. He didn’t get to leave me and I know that can put me in a very dangerous place physically. You got left, he used you up and threw you away. I know Roy got fired for banging one of his managers, I am pretty sure there were one or two others, but I have no proof to what I know. I trust me though.
To a certain extent, you are safer than I am. I have even written out my funeral arrangements. I have sent my brother in law my passwords to everything on my computer just incase I die. I changed all locks, padlocked other entrance points, installed a 24 hr digital surveillance system. I lock my doors if I am home or not. I have a detatched garage that is always locked. I lock my car inside my locked garage. Roy is NOT allowed in my home at all. Right now he is not allowed out of his car except to get the kids in and out. I set boundaries, he crosses them, I extend them. 99% of this is because my brother in law is a Colonel in the military and he is teaching me to play this like a military mission. I play tough, and I am, but I am scared.
You need to figure out why you were so willing to buy into what he offered and unable to walk away when it wasn’t what you thought. I say this because you were horribly abused and that shit doesn’t just wash off. You need to stay the hell away from any type of relationship for a LONG time. You are like blood in the water to sharks. You are not stupid, you are not a victim, you are not any different than thousands of other women. You are intelligent, (a lawyer!), you are a survivor (you are speaking out right?) and you are in excellent company. I am worried for you, that another shark will find you. If nothing else, please listen to all of us and say it every single day, I was abused and I am a survivor. No more dom/sub, master/slave bullshit.
and yes you can absolutely find a loving relationship again. not until you rebuild you honey. I have been doing that for 18 months with a stronger core than you and I am not sure I am ready to date. Once you know who YOU are though, God, your higher power, what ever you call it, will make sure the person who earns you will be there.
You were abused. You are a survivor. No more, no less.
sorry to drift off from the conversation, just wondering if anyone has seen a new release film called “Thanks for sharing” but Ive read it deals with sex addiction.
Thank you, All4, what intrigues me in your comments is this: “It wasn’t master/slave. I haven’t ever been in that type of relationship but have studied it. Number ONE thing that is consistent in all I have read is the love and care of the sub/slave.” I have not studied up on master/slave or dom/sub,” but it does seem like that element was missing. I mean, certainly over the years he “loved” me in some fashion but it seems like the glue that held us together was the narcissistic controlling, using sex to control me, and exploiting my co-dependent traits and my willingness to be controlled. My therapist says I’m not a co-dependent person but that I have co-dependent traits. I’m not sure what the difference is, but it’s absolutely true that I was willing to submit to this man, on many levels.
I didn’t enjoy the sex the way he did, but I obviously was willing to do anything that he told me to do. Sad, and yes, I will be staying away from relationships for a long while if not forever. I have three wonderful grown children, and a larger extended family, and a circle of close friends who know everything. Yes, I’m a survivor… this isn’t how I thought my life would be right now, but I’m glad I’m not a chump or a dupe anymore. I am proudly No Contact for 28 days now. In fact, he texted me yesterday saying he had been “wanting to talk to me for a while.” It’s a lie anyway, but I will not respond.
ChumpLady’s blog is helping me so much. I’m so glad I found this place… Back in months 1,2 or 3 post D-Day I probably wouldn’t have been ready to understand what happened to me fully because I was still doing Pick Me and trying to unravel his skeins of fuckedupness. Now I can concentrate on healing me, god knows I need that. Thanks again for taking the time to share.
I believe knowledge is power. Of course, the more knowledge you gain, the more you realize what you don’t know. 😉
Discuss this with your therapist FIRST, but what I would suggest is finding a submissive website, there are several out there. Find one that isn’t just about sex, actually gives info and isn’t open to doms. Get in contact with the administrator of the site, probably the most experienced. Explain what your “relationship” was and see what her/his take on it is. I remember reading one post saying that if the “dom” pushes too hard too fast, he is just an asshole looking for free blowjobs. Your post made me think of that.
You may wonder why I know anything about this. Like I said, I like knowledge. If I find something interesting I study it. I have never ever been in that type of relationship but there is something about it that does appeal to me. Probably the control aspect. I have always been in controlling relationships but never happy about it. I don’t have the answers to what about the whole thing is interesting to me. I know how dangerous giving someone any control over me can be though so I researched it.
Nothing I have read sounds like what you lived. All the stuff I read, it was about meeting each others needs, respecting boundaries, CONSENTUAL PLEASURE. I sure as shit don’t want whipped or hot wax dripped on me, but if someone wants that and someone else wants to do that, I don’t see how it is wrong. If I don’t want it and it is forced on me, that is not pleasure, that is abuse.
Best way to know what you had is to know what you DIDN’T HAVE. You went into that relationship with no knowledge of what a true dom/sub, master/slave relationship was, you only got his definition of what it was. He was a narcissist sociopath. That is not what I have read those types of relationships are about.
You stay here and you work on you. You are strong. You may not be where you thought you would at this point in your life, not many of us can say we are. You are free though, and that is a dam good thing.
As for the joint property (house I think you said?) Think long and hard about how much it is worth to you. He will use it to control you and weasel his way back in. My x has been using anything and everything to do that. He tried to use our family van to control me. Long story. Week before Christmas he demanded use of it since it was titled and loaned entirely in his name. Yes, it was/is marital property. Didn’t matter though at this stage of the divorce. My lawyer told me I had to make a choice. I could continue to let him try and use the van to control me or I could get my own car. SO, I got my own car. Payment is about the same but I owe more. In the long run, it wasn’t about the money though. It was about breaking one more thread of the control. How much is the financial tie worth emotionally? You may want to think about taking less financially for the freedom you will gain. I gave up SO much financially, but holy shit did I gain more emotionally for my freedom.
Muse, given his paranoia about you seeing anything in his computer, he definitely is hiding something. But maybe it’s not child porn he’s hiding. Have you considered that he may have been cheating for quite some time? Many of us here had exes who used the easiest method (the internet) to find hookups and communicate with their APs. And who were fiercely protective of their computer s, passwords, e mail, cell phones, you name it. Given his entitlement I’m just saying it wouldn’t be surprising if that was the case with your ex, too.
When I found out that my stbx had cheated before, it helped me see that it wasn’t about the Ow at all, it helped me get over it, and leave.
Muse, another book I recommend is by Martha Stout ‘The Psychopath Next Door’.
She says: you can see psychopaths by the trail of pain and destruction they leave behind them.
And: where there is child abuse/paedophilia, you will find psychopaths. They also feature heavily in drug abuse and in alcoholism (anything to feel alive).
The book is useful for her tips on how to deal with psychopaths. Basically, they play games with people. They can microread people (Ugandans were convinced that Idi Amin could read their thoughts) and they mimic emotions.
They are masters of manipulation and abuse people in order to feel alive.
If people decline to be played with, they abruptly and without a moment of worry, drop the game and move on without looking back, to another victim.
Do not worry about being polite to them, social niceties, or their feelings. Just let them know you have ‘seen’ them and will not be playing.
Never, ever, ever, try and argue or play games with a psychopath. You WILL lose.
A short summary of what I can remember, but a powerful book.