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When Cheaters Give Infidelity Advice

Slide1Every day or so people send me goofy articles on infidelity. Maybe goofy is the wrong word. Offensive? Dunder-headed? They run the gambit from spouses being abducted by midlife crisis aliens, to breathy, text-speak — How 2 Cheat on UR Boyfriend! I generally reply something to the effect of — oh wow. Yuck.

Apparently, there is a whole genre of infidelity literature written by cheaters. It falls into two camps — how to be a better cheater and not get caught — and how to reconcile with your chumpy spouse. Which makes me wonder exactly how much overlap there is on that Venn diagram.

The less said about the How to Be a More Effective Cheater sites the better. I mean there isn’t really much to discuss there other than a) “use the same soap” is terrible advice and b) you are a sociopath.

More intriguing are the Very Sorry Cheaters who would like to give chumps a glimpse inside their head. Ostensibly this is done for the greater glory of reconciliation. Sort of like those former bank robbers who do home security TV ads now.

“Affair Advice” is one such Reformed Wayward site (thanks to alert chump monika for the link). I had to weigh my desire not to send site hits to this nitwit by blogging about him, against my urge to deconstruct his bullshit. I erred on the side of ridicule. I mean really, who could resist when he refers to chumps as the “embittered, mean-spirited, will-always-be-the-victim Betrayed Spouse community.”

Can’t you feel the love?

The guy is a doing a public service, but not for the reasons he thinks. The site is a good look into the brain of a cheater during reconciliation. It mouths all the reconciliation truisms “Affairs are 100% wrong!” but then dishes out steaming shit piles of justifications for them. Poor sausage had FOO issues. He was miserable in his marriage. He felt “trapped.” Happy people don’t cheat. The problem with betrayed spouses is they don’t forgive, because they’re petty and small that way.

I’ll believe the guy doesn’t cheat anymore, but just like a dry drunk he’s got all the disordered thinking  without the acting out. Every word drips with condescension and blameshifting, even when he’s attempting humility.

Affairs are 100% wrong and I was 100% wrong for the decisions I made to start and continue one, even if my marriage had become crap.  My poor marriage, and my inner demons, were the “reasons” for my affair, but not an excuse.  There is none.  Many Betrayeds have a hard time grasping this concept, but it’s the truth for the majority of affairs.  Happy and content people in solid marriages rarely have them.  But that’s not an excuse either.

It was wrong to steal the cookies, even though mommy left them out where I could reach them and she knows how much I love cookies and was denying me cookies. No, stealing cookies is wrong. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! I was hungry for cookies — that’s a reason, but not an excuse, okay? “Eat an orange,” mom said. FRUIT. As if. Look, happy and content children don’t steal cookies. Am I saying my mother doesn’t feed me well enough? Is it her fault I was hungry for cookies? I’m not saying that. I’m saying happy children don’t steal cookies. It’s not an excuse.

My affair was not just the expression of a man trapped in an unsatisfying reality, but also a reaction to the many hurts and injuries done to me by my parents and others in my childhood. I was compensating for these things at some level, although this is definitely 20/20 hindsight. I didn’t realize it back then, and I’m still trying to work it all out on my head.

People were mean to him as a child. I’m sure none of you ever had that happen. But it’s okay, he’s happy now. Well sorta.

I’m no longer semi-happy.  I’m very happy. PERFECTLY happy? Hardly. But I feel content in my marriage. Optimistic. Happy. Looking forward to whatever years we have left together. I feel like part of a ‘couple’ again.  I don’t feel like the guy I used to be any more. But 2 years ago, I certainly did feel like a man trapped in a low-conflict, but dull, existence. It was a big reason for why I ended up where I did.

So stay on your toes, Mrs. Affair Advice! If he tips over into “semi-happy” again there’s no telling what he might do.

But chumps, don’t just read this site for genuine imitation naugahyde remorse, read it for the hypocrisy! On affair partners telling chumps about the affair:

This blog entry is NOT for people who are in, or were in, an affair and purposely tell their Affair Partner’s spouse about the affair – whether it’s dead or not. That’s mean. Vicious. And a horrible betrayal of your Affair Partner, no matter what happens. I know because this happened to me. She thought by telling my wife that my wife would throw me out (and into her arms). It backfired. Drastically. Instead, I terminated things with her immediately and I will never forgive her for this and other vicious things she did and lies she told me. If you are the Other Man or Other Woman, you have no right to do that and it’s a stain on your character or maturity if you do it or contemplating it. Revenge is a bad idea. Don’t do it.

The vicious hussy! She LIED to him, can you believe it? She broke the sacred bond between affair partners. She BETRAYED him!

What she was supposed to do was part in sweet sorrow. Remember the good times, maintain a shrine to him, and fondly caress the receipts from their half-price dinners at Ruth Chris’s steakhouse. But no! She didn’t do that! She repugnantly stained her character by telling the truth.

Curiously, he doesn’t rail against the Other Woman for hurting his wife with the knowledge about their two-year affair — no, the indignity was against HIM.

She lied to me. In big ways. She did all she could to hurt me and my wife when I terminated things with her based on a D-day that she herself engineered. But that’s not why I went back to my wife. But she certainly has shown me that I made the right decision and averted a real disaster.

The OW engineered a D-Day, so I’ll assume that means she blew the whistle on him. Apparently she “lied” because she was going to stay in her side dish place and remain a secret. But no, she ended the cake, which is NOT what affair partners are supposed to do. He still feels “betrayed” about this — yet wants his readers to believe he’s really very sorry about cheating. WTFuckity Fuck?

So this guy has the colossal cojones to dispense with affair advice? Oh, and why am I referring to him as “this guy”? Because he blogs anonymously. Not only won’t he give his name, he refuses to publish any comments “judging” him.

What, you’re still not convinced of his remorse?

Well that must be because you’re one of those embittered, mean-spirited victims who cannot forgive and move on. As he likes to say, over and over and over again on his blog, hey, if you can’t forgive, you can’t reconcile. But there is a limit to his patience, chumps. A guy can’t wear ashes and sackcloth forever. At some point you need to own up to your part in this. His advice to cheaters?

At least for now, do not say anything which will give the impression that the betrayed partner was responsible for your lies to them or in any way caused your behavior.  There will be plenty of time to share blame during times of productive conversation with your mate.

And forget about transparency. What is the point? A person is entitled to their privacy. Okay, he made a mistake, but eventually a cheater will tire of this “humiliation and control.”

After the disclosure of my affair, I know my wife went through my work bag, my drawers and papers. Probably my car too. I know she went on searches on the internet to see what I may have posted on message boards. I was electronically stalked by her for at least a solid year. Web pages I had visited were scrutinized, as was every Facebook post I made in the past or present.   I’m sure I don’t even know all the things she did to discover evidence and to verify my fidelity to her in the wake of the affair and, frankly, I don’t want to know. I had to tolerate this humiliation as part of the price I paid for the huge sin I committed. At least for a while, anyway. I accepted that, even if I didn’t like it and although, once we were well into reconciliation–after a year had gone by– I began to resent the questions (which really were thinly-veiled accusations) that resulted from her searches and scrutiny.

Chumps, this shit is on you because you’re insecure.

Often, untrusting people are insecure people, and there aren’t enough “hoops” that you can jump through in order to make an insecure person feel secure. They tend to be black-holes of emotional need, and it will never be enough.  These searches, accusations and interrogations tend to continue no matter what. Few spouses tolerate this type of humiliation and control indefinitely.

No, chumps, the best course of action is to find it in your heart to forgive him and eat the shit sandwich. Don’t ask too many questions. It will only “set you back.” And he will reward you with respect and gratitude for understanding his Mistake. Of course, he was utterly lacking respect and gratitude when he cheated on you, but hey, you get some props now for not throwing him out on his sorry ass. Even though you are petty and unpredictable, he appreciates you.

No matter how angry, petty, or unpredictable they get, they have shown a great love for you and, in many cases, a great strength of character in choosing to try to trust you again. Give this decision, and your partner, the deserved respect and gratitude.  Many betrayed spouses don’t have the character and maturity and true love to forgive someone.  Many are often too invested in being the victim. Yours isn’t. Appreciate it.

Because he appreciates YOU. Really he does. If the shoe were on the other foot, he’d do the same for you. Nothing angry or petty or vengeful about this guy. No sir.

Would I ever hit my wife, even if I caught her in the act with three men simultaneously, one man in each orifice. Leave her? Yes. Get a lawyer and try and take her to the cleaners? You bet.

Ask Chump Lady

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  • CL, what is it called when they say ‘well you yelled in the car park that time and that’s why I cheated!’

    It’s not situational truth, it is…. ? As you can tell, I am receiving quite a lot of mindfuckery at the moment…

    • Patsy, whatever you yelled in the car park, it surely wasn’t a fraction so bad as his cheating on you, was it? And did being cheated on make you go out and cheat? Of course not. Just ridiculous. This isn’t “situational truth.” It’s just a lie. A lie told to hurt you. Unforgivable.

      • Patsy, usually that is a diversion – so you get defensive and explain why you yelled and how it’s not the same, etc. Now you are defending your “poor” behavior rather than discussing his. The answer to that diversion is to refuse to be diverted or to walk away. It’s also a bit of rationalization on his part even though it makes no sense whatsoever.

        • Exactly. It’s a distraction from the real issue. The real issue isn’t that you yelled in the car park. The real issue is his infidelity. If he’s got you busy defending yourself about the car park yelling, you’re not focusing on him. It’s a classic tactic of narcs, abusers, and just people who don’t want to take responsibility.

          • My XH would criticize me, and then when I disagreed, he would attack me for being “so defensive.” My worst shortcoming was that I was “so defensive.” Circular reasoning: I had to eat the shit sandwich or hear how shitty I was for not eating it. Can’t win with these distorted thinkers!

  • Infidelity advice from a cheater? That’s about as useful as etiquette advice from Tila Tequila or humility advice from Kanye West. Thanks, CL, for exposing this guy’s website for what it is, a verbose electronic experiment in gas-lighting.

    Experiment: FAIL.

    • Or …. Cleaning tips from a hoarder.
      Life skills from a mineral deposit.
      Investment advice from a third grader.

      What gets me, is that THIS is the face of reconciliation, folks. This is an active blog, nicely organized, with hits. This guy is the model Reformed Wayward. People read this shit to go, oh wow, so this is how it’s supposed to look. He said he was wrong! He picked his wife! Swoon!

      • I’d argue that the “choosing” stage is prior to the affair. At that point, the potential cheater faces the choice of the AP or remaining faithful to his/her spouse. Once the affair’s occurred, the cheater’s picked the AP over the spouse.

        That’s the tough one for us Chumps to swallow.

        Cheaters know this, and that’s why they try to gaslight us with the “but I really looooove yooooou. I just didn’t realize it until I fucked everyone else like a bunny these past 20 years. But it’s you who holds the key to my heart.”

        *barf*

  • Happy and content people in solid marriages have grasped the concept of reciprocity. You give, as well as take. That is what makes the marriage solid, and the people in it happy.

    These people REALLY don’t get it, do they? That THEY have an inordinately large part to play in that the marriage was crap?

    I had a really depressing series of counselling sessions with my kids last week. Depressing because both the kids and the counsellor assumed reciprocity. The kids said ‘Daddy is really regretting this and when we asked him why he did it he said he was depressed, he was mentally ill (poor Daddy); and it isn’t over Mummy’ and the counsellor picked this up and ran with it. She noted me just sitting there shaking my head. She berated me for my alienating the children. [How do you get round this? How do you speak your truth without it being dissing Dad?] It is actually frightening that TRAINED COUNSELLORS immediately assume reasonableness and a willingness to meet half way, and that infidelity can be a beautiful opportunity for a better marriage [yeah, I got quoted that too]. It makes me feel more alone.

    Oh how I wish my picker wasn’t so off. And that I had found Al-Anon a long long time ago.

    • Alienating them how? By not feeling sufficiently sorry for him?

      I think you can only speak your truth. This was a deal breaker for you. It’s regrettable that he was depressed and mentally ill (is that short hand for alcoholic?), but this isn’t a healthy marriage of equals. You gave reconciliation a shot and he reconnected with his affair partner. You filed. You enforced a boundary. This is not alienating, it’s empowering.

      The children will feel hurt by the divorce. That’s inevitable. But you didn’t cheat and blame shift and screw up reconciliation and you’re not an addict. That’s all on him. You’ve owned your issues. I’d get another counselor — for yourself. This seems a dead end with this shrink.

      • I second getting a different counselor! And, you should telephone interview the new one; give brief overview of the issues and get the therapists feedback so you don’t end up with another idiot. If they won’t give you a 15/20 minute interview on the phone they are not worth seeing. Then see that counselor without the kids for the first visit to set up guidelines and make sure he/she knows the facts.

        • I don’t understand why these counselor s simply do not get the fact that in almost every case, the cheater was the main contributor to pre-affair problems.
          I mean you would think that with the cheater demonstrating a lack of integrity, poor communication skills, poor problem solving ability, and an incredible lack of empathy as well as huge feelings of entitlement( all hallmarks of the personality disordered) , it would be obvious.
          For some strange reason, this escapes them.
          Who in his or her right mind could ever believe a couple could have a better relationship after this? The statistics are staggering re the likliehood of having a. Happy marriage after cheating.

          • The answer: it’s feel-good bs and it keeps the money rolling in. Most of the time the cheater is also in marriage counseling along side the chump. If the cheater bails, usually the chump does too. The cheater is immune to any criticism and generally gets infuriated when they’re called out.

            • When we went to MC, the therapist seemed more comfortable using euphemisms to describe my cheaters behavior, rather than calling it out for what it was. She would say he was just a “thrill-seeker” or a “Type A” personality… as if his philandering was expected and a somewhat acceptable consequence of these traits. I felt at times he was almost preening under her praise. Was she stroking his ego on purpose, as part of gaining his trust??? Geez, I guess I was supposed to take his good with his bad, including any resultant STDs.
              When the next D-day came around (Yes, I’m a chump- thought he really, really meant it when he said he would never, ever do it again and hurt me) he went to another counselor, alone. This one spent the hour telling him the same BS and proceeded to tell him about her own cheating X’s moves. Like my cheater needed anymore ideas!

          • “I don’t understand why these counselor s simply do not get the fact that in almost every case, the cheater was the main contributor to pre-affair problems.”

            ^^^This a thousand times.

            Cheating is usually just one of the manifestations of their deficiencies as a spouse. But it is the one thing that quickly knocks those BS fog glasses off and lets us really “see” them. See that they were mostly selfish, detached, moody, lied about numerous other things, etc., and never as truly invested in the relationship as the BS.

            Funny how the spouse holding the short end of the stick during the marriage is the one that is less likely to cheat.

            • “Cheating is usually just one of the manifestations of their deficiencies as a spouse. But it is the one thing that quickly knocks those BS fog glasses off and lets us really ‘see’ them. See that they were mostly selfish, detached, moody, lied about numerous other things, etc., and never as truly invested in the relationship as the BS.”

              YES, YES, YES!!! And in the end, the cheating was the actual Get Out Of Jail Free card. Well, and by “Free,” I mean having my kids and myself be totally devastated by a coward and his side-twat enabler.

      • oh-kay…….I think I finally get it now, why none of these A-holes want to be the one to file the divorce action, even though you’d think with Twu-wuv waiting in the wings they would want to be free as fast as possible. That cozy, warm victim status is just too much to give up. It’s too valuable as an all purpose rationale for EVERYTHING.

        Mentally, these people have gone straight through the looking glass, and you will go insane yourself trying to make sense of it.

        • True. Trying to grasp the way a cheater thinks can fuck you up.
          They are wired much differently than a normal person.
          Just think about what it really takes to engage in this, especially long term.
          One must be very good and comfortable with lying. One must be very comfortable with hurting others.
          These folks are as abusive as hell.

          • I agree Arnold. This guy’s blog reminds me so much of the circular conversations I tried to have with my ex. Nothing made a lot of sense, and usually ended up back on me being too sensitive, too insecure, etc.

          • I consider that some of the really clearly disordered cheaters, freaks like my ex, are actually what would have been called demons in biblical times. They don’t have human souls. They are evil. Modern psychology calls them sociopaths, the bible would call them wicked. They are turds from Satan’s ass, as someone here often writes.

          • Arnold – I have been trying to “understand” the why of all of this for months. Your words are eloquent, but simple. They have given me some peace. It makes sense in a senseless circumstance.

    • Fuck your therapist, Patsy. You’re not alienating your kids by being truthful, you’re teaching them that you don’t keep buying the same shit sandwich of bullshit from the asshole who has repeatedly sold them to you. And shaking your head is the least of what you COULD do.

      I bloody well HATE this attitude that we’re supposed to sit there and continue to prop up the cheater’s image, relationship with the kids, not say anything truthful about anyone who supported the affair/s…fuck that. My kids ask me why I don’t have anything to do with my ex-inlaws and I tell them the truth: they hurt me deeply and I will not have people in my life who hurt me deeply-I prefer to put my energy on those who treat me well.

      WTF, I am tired of this crap attitude that we’re supposed to CONTINUE being chumps, even after all we’ve been through. Talk about keeping us in our place! NO fucking way.

      Oh, and the fuckwit who wrote that blog? He’ll cheat again, no doubt about it. And his wife will be destroyed because she won’t be able to believe he did it to her again.

      • One of the hardest things for me was some people in my family saying “He never says anything bad about you, why do you say bad things about him?” They acted like it was a mutual decision, they bought into his “we grew apart” story. Basically it felt like they were saying “if he was happy he wouldn’t have cheated.” I felt like screaming “what bad things can he say about me? Did I lie, hide, plot behind his back, traumatize him and take advantage of him?” It’s so hard when you feel like your world is crumbling and people are saying “what’s your part in this?” That’s the part I just can’t wrap my head around.

        • Lyn one thing that it took me a long time to realize is that , almost invariably, unless someone has been on the receiving end of this, he or she just has. No idea what you are going through.
          And, in reality, these folks need to believe that , somehow, you contributed to the cheating.
          It makes their world safer to both minimize the trauma and to cling to the belief that it could not happen to them.

            • My best friend told me, I’m glad he only cheated on you instead of being physically abusive!! Um, he emotionally abused me — how is that not as big a deal? Or his mother repeatedly says, “the one thing I will not tolerate is a man hitting a woman. If he ever puts his hand on you, let me know.” Again logic-less people — how about either teaching your son’s to respect women PERIOD — or condemning infidelity the same way physical abuse is condemned. Having to seek therapy, losing sleep because I am stressing about how to make ends meet with two kids as a result of one less income because I left my cheating SOB husband, losing my appetite, and having low self-esteem as a result of my husband cheating on me for 6 months definitely affected me PHYSICALLY!! That is Physical Abuse!!!!

    • Patsy, I would also add that emotionally healthy people who actually care about themselves and their partners are willing to have the hard conversations about their unhappy marriage. They say, “Hey, I’m not happy. Let’s get some marriage counseling.” They also have the strength and decency to say, “After all that counseling, I’m still not happy, and I want a divorce.” They go through with said divorce, and then if they go on find another relationship, it is well after the divorce is final.

      Immature, selfish losers do whatever feels good to them and have affairs while their spouses continue taking care of the kids, doing the chores, and saving toward the retirements that they think they will have with their cheaters. They make excuses, blameshift, play “woe is me,” and think that they are entitled to happiness that is provided to them by others. To them, the fact that we were no longer providing them the happiness that they felt entitled to gave them free reign to then find that “happiness” somewhere else.

      One thing that I thought was messed up and hurtful after DDay was when my then-husband was confessing his shitty behavior to his parents on the phone. His mother stopped speaking, didn’t answer him when he said he loved her, and then got off the phone without speaking another word. That was awesome. Unfortunately, his father said, “We just want you to be happy.” Wow. Really? Happy at the expense of the DIL you’d known for over 15 years at that point and the only three biological grandchildren you’ll ever have? That’s not happy. That’s entitled and selfish.

      • Wish my MIL would have been that supportive of me! She just told me she guessed they’d see me around some time (after 36 years in her family) and hoped I could move on. LOL

      • My ex’s family not only spouts that, “As long as he’s happy, it’s okay,” bullshit, but they also say it’s fine he doesn’t bother to hold a job or pay child support because my mother can step in to help me out financially. It boggles my mind that I used to think my ex’s family was some sort of Norman Rockwell normal. Now I realize that they are a clusterfuck of dysfunction, but they do everything possible to preserve their precious image of themselves as a wonderful family.

        • GIO,

          You’re a genius! “Clusterfuck of dysfunction.” Does a description come any more succinct than that?! Can you design a T-Shirt with that on it? I will buy at least a dozen to pass out.

        • I had to respond to this because my MIL hasn’t said that as long as he’s happy, what she did say is that she couldn’t believe my 16/14/10 year olds were being such horrible girls to their father, who is still their father after all and he so horribly sad. She told them they were spoiled brats. Her and pop are having such a hard time because they are old, he is sooooo sad with his 22 year old and their new baby, and none of them give a flying fucking petudidy about how my kids are coping.

          AND there is NO way in hell, that I will not AlWAYS tell them the truth. No call at christmas, no card from any of them. But at least my kids aren’t sad anymore!

      • If I could remind myself of this every time I need it, I’m sure I would heal more quickly. Movingon you are dead right!

    • Please read Lundy Bancroft book, about abusers, Why does he do that?
      Chump Lady recommends. It is so enlightening

    • I was on of those that accepted a lot of bad behavior from STBXH because other people (including therapist) will buy into his BS. One time I complained to my sister that my STBXH will ruin my clothes if I placed them in the living room. Her response was “Well, when people ask you to pick up stuff you don’t always listen so he did what he did to get you to not be so messy.” At that point in my life, I accepted it because I was the one at fault. Now looking back and having more knowledge, I understand that behavior was unacceptable. Yes, I was wrong for not picking things up the first time he ask me to do it. However, it does not justify him to ruin my clothing. Just like cheating. Ok, even if the marriage is not 100% great but that just not justify going out to cheat. Normal people will COMMUNICATE when something upset them instead these cheaters will act out inappropriately when they are upset.

      I think people in general are taught to look at cause and effect so when face with “I was unhappy in my marriage so I cheated” that they overlook the poor behavior that was exhibited and just concentrate on the cause. Kinda like criminals using the defensive “I was abused as a child” Could it be true? Maybe. But why does it matter. There are plenty of abused children that grown into adulthood that do not commit crime. Instead of looking at cause, we need to look at how people handle effect as it will show the true color of a person.

      • Ruining your clothing because you wouldn’t pick it up is abusive and patronizing, along with passive-aggressive. Were there things you wanted him to do that he didn’t? Why didn’t you ruin something of his about it? Maybe because you’re not a sociopath.

    • Patsy
      I am in the middle of my own divorce from “Roy.” I have been working with my kids, ages 10, 7 & 4, to use their own voice and set boundaries through this whole situation. My x doesn’t respect any boundaries, never ever ever. Through all of this, my primary goal is protecting and empowering my kids. I tell them if their dad or I say things about the divorce or if we say things about the other, the kids have the right to say “I don’t want to hear this, I don’t want to talk about this.” My middle son told his father that at the last visitation when his dad was saying things about me. My 7 year old used his voice, said I don’t want to hear this. Dad continued. 7 year old then said, “I told you I don’t want to talk about this and I don’t want to hear it ROY!” I have no idea who the hell Roy is, but damn it, I laughed and said I was proud of my son for sticking to his boundaries. Now I refer to the x as Roy. Roy is the guy who doesn’t give a crap about anyone or anything except him.
      I grew up with 2 cheaters. Mother was (may still be) a chronic cheater. I only know of one time my dad cheated. My mother is a narc to the utmost extreme. It took so long, even not speaking to her for 1 1/2 years, for her to finally start respecting MY boundaries. Funny, when I started standing up to her, that is when I got extremely disgusted and fed up with Roy.
      My parents are still married. Jacked up, gotta say that out loud.
      MY ADVICE TO YOU AS A CHILD CHUMP FROM BOTH SIDES…
      Follow your path. Don’t hate your x. don’t forgive until you want, never forget. Be hurt, go through the whole gambit of emotions and come out on the other side.
      I know there are so many different arguments about telling kids, not telling. I don’t see the point. I grew up knowing, it sucked. I would have at least liked to have the option of thinking my mother wasn’t the town whore and my dad’s xow wasn’t possibly having his kid. all of this at the age of 11-12.
      I protect my kids from the ugly not for their father, but because they need to have a better sense of who they are in order to deal with who their father is.
      Your kids already know. Give them some power. Tell them what they choose to do with their dad is up to them. Possibly setting them up for hurt later on, but the fact is, they will be adults some day.
      Simply put it as this, yes your dad this that or the other thing. Yes, we are divorcing. No I do not forgive him right now. He did help create you though so for that I will respect your love for him and not expect you to feel the way I feel. In turn, understand what he promised me, he broke that promise in the most hurtful way. Today you don’t fully understand but someday as you become an adult, you will. Respect me as your mom to feel how I feel. I will get through my pain in my own time, not yours.
      They need to know it’s ok to love their dad. Will he fuck them over too? if he is like my mother, absolutely. If he is like my father, he will never be able to forgive himself for what he did to them.
      Let them follow their own path, protect them, love them and support them. Expect the same in return.
      OH, and get a new therapist. 😉

      • Ironic that we end up marrying what we were trying to escape as a child because maybe we recognize it as our “normal.” Or, we are so screwed up by the past family dynamics, we lacked the self-esteem and tools to do better. But we can get healthy and chart our own destiny, and say “never again!” It sounds like you are doing way better for your kids.

  • What a serious douchetard. The animosity bubbling below the surface towards his Chumpy wife is palpable, isn’t it? Passive-aggressive much? If you resent her that much, cut her loose, you cake-eating asshole. Maybe she could actually be with someone who DOESN’T suck.

    Guaranteed this guy cheats again.

    At least HE’S “happy” now, that’s all that matters…

    • Douchetard. I like it. 🙂

      Yes, all that matters is his happiness. Apparently she’s really stepped up her game since he cheated on her. Which was really wrong of him, but hey, he was unhappy. And someone was mean to him in the 4th grade. A perfect storm, really.

      • In my ex’s book about himself, the entire first chapter is called, “Damaged Child,” and is about how mean kids were to him in elementary school. These freakholes love to feel sorry for themselves and make excuses, don’t they? I was horribly bullied and picked on in elementary school, yet somehow I managed to stay 100% faithful to my husband. Go figure.

    • My favorite part was about his pre-plan to immediately lawyer up should he ever catch his wife cheating. No shit sandwich for him! No sirree!

  • Moral equivalence! Gotcha.

    Thanks for the support Nomar. I am being really mindfucked at the moment. He has no idea why I ‘suddenly filed’ last June [he got caught back in touch with OW]. I refuse to see how much he has changed [see above, after five years of reconciling/sorry, adding insult to injury]. I have always treated him with personal loathing [that was my emotional distress coming through, with a good bit of chumpy co-dependent martyr/manage/mother, which I fully own and never intend to do again]. The car park and another example of misunderstanding, constitute VICIOUS PERSONAL ATTACKS that justify his behaviour. So depressing, to see how wrongly wired they are.

  • In that world of emotionally immature and dysfunctional people, I’d say this is pretty much Vanilla Normal Sundae.

    Vanilla Normal Cheater Sundae, with nuts and sprinkles.

  • I would think this was a parody site, except, sadly, I guess it isn’t.

    He pretty much has all the ‘poor little me’; ‘poor little sausage’ territory covered, doesn’t he? He’s written a miracle of self-entitlement and self-absorption. Too bad for his wife. I hope she ups and leaves his sorry, cheating ass. That Karma bus can’t come too soon, preferably on a Tuesday. And I’ll bet he’s a real douchecanoe at work too.

  • wow. Sounds like my ex. I hope his wife realizes soon what a douchebag he really is. And let’s him have that “crazy” ow. I did. Best decision ever. Cheating is a deal breaker. Twenty eight years with a man Who never quite understood what being in a good marriage was. Oh and I definitely think the belief that those who cheat on their spouses because they aren’t getting enough sex is a fallacy. In my family we refer to the way he lives his life as being a ping pong ball on the ocean. No thought processes. No intentionality. But perhaps my ex ‘s father summed it up best, “A hard dick has no conscience.”

    • Someone in my ex’s family called him a flea. He is hopping on one person, but if someone else gets in range, he just hops over to her. I like your family’s ping pong analogy….it definitely describes my ex’s approach to everything in his life.

  • “Often, untrusting people are insecure people, and there aren’t enough “hoops” that you can jump through in order to make an insecure person feel secure. They tend to be black-holes of emotional need, and it will never be enough. These searches, accusations and interrogations tend to continue no matter what. Few spouses tolerate this type of humiliation and control indefinitely.”

    This one killed me. He’s saying his wife is untrusting because she’s insecure? Is he missing the bit about him proving himself untrustworthy and that she’ll probably never truly trust him 100% again? And then he goes on to say he’d see a lawyer and screw her over if she cheated on him?

    This guy is a major, major asshole and I’ll bet you anything he will cheat again.

    • LOL. Too bad we don’t know who he really is and can’t keep tabs on him, because I’d offer some pretty high odds for people willing to take the other side of that bet if I were a bookmaker.

      Yeah, he’ll probably cheat. Next time he’s in a funk and has to blame that on his wife, marriage or whatever.

      • Actually just as an FYI, I’m pretty sure he used to have a blog on WordPress entitled “Recovering Wayward” . I used to be active on an infidelity website and he posted there a few times with links to his blog. From what I gleaned (from the few times I could muster the intestinal fortitude to read his crap) he performs in a band (how he met his schmoopy affair partner) but he also has a regular job. I’m also pretty sure that he lives in Florida. He deleted his blog and his affiliation with the infidelity website when too many people called him on his crap.

        If this isn’t the same guy I’d be very surprised. He also spoke of his OW viciously and he would often preach that his affair was 100% wrong, but if you read close you could tell he didn’t take any real ownership. He lied and cheated for 2 years-that is pathological as far as I’m concerned. I hope his wife puts down the hopium pipe and sees this jackass for what he really is. He will definitely cheat again, no doubt!

        • He mentions a former blog, so perhaps that’s the guy. As for calling him on his crap — well he expressly forbids that on his blog and deletes comments from anyone who “judges” him.

        • Yes. That’s him.

          He also has a betrayed groupie. A woman with her own blog about being betrayed. She follows this dude around spraying rainbows up his backside.

          Utterly dysfunctional.

          Hard to look away from.

          Trainwreck.

    • Well only if he’s “semi-happy” Nord. If kibble production doesn’t fall behind and no one demands his cell phone records. Because that shit can put a sorry man off.

      • Funny, I knew something was up with ex at various points (didn’t think it was cheating-just thought something was going on with him) and I asked him who knows how many times and he always said everything was fine, fine, fine. Wouldn’t talk about anything. Then suddenly it was YEARS of misery and I never, according to him, noticed. I remember saying ‘Are you fucking kidding me?’ and his reply was, ‘You didn’t ask often enough.’ Hahaha…what a turd he was.

        • oh, Nord! ditto! they was singing from the same song book, that’s for sure.

          Mine even started an affair while we were in MC…because he wasn’t…dunno…I”m still speechless about that little act of self-what? self-head-up-the-assed-ness?.

        • Same thing here! I asked over and over to which he replied “everything’s fine, why wouldn’t it be?”. It was even his idea to go on a relationship retreat weekend which cost over $2000…put on my credit card…all while texting OW while we were there. He then had the balls to argue to my lawyer that he wasn’t responsible for half that bill once I found out he was already screwing her once we got home!

  • I’m glad you parsed out pertinent passages because frankly his writing so terrible and inarticulate I gave up after a few sentences on his actual page. Self-centered, self-interested, and a total rube. Is this really god’s gift of redemption to the infidelity lot?

    His stock photos also offend me.

  • Pardon my typo. *Is* so terrible. . .

    My reason is I just gave my cat a bath and she is trying to claw her way out of the bathroom. This is no excuse though. I just want you to understand. It is her fault she peed in her carrier and I made a typo.

  • “Happy and content people in solid marriages rarely have them.” This is reversing causality. Cause and effect reversed. The truth is People that Don’t Have Affairs end up Happy and Content and in Solid Marriages. People with self-esteem and empathy (non-cheaters) are happy and content and have solid marriages.

    • Are you sure correlation doesn’t necessarily imply causation?

      Because I am pretty sure not bathing regularly leads to homelessness 🙂

      Just joking.

    • Experts also agree with you, vinnie!

      “Bad marriages don’t cause infidelity; infidelity causes bad marriages.” -Frank Pittman

    • Does anyone else notice that , in general , cheaters have poorer writing abilities as compared to betrayed partners?
      I keep marveling at the drop off in smarts between the ” Wayward” forum on SI and the forums for the betrayed .
      There seems to be nowhere near the cleverness and creativity in their posts. Their grammar, vocabulary, etc seem very undeveloped.

      • I’ve noticed the same thing! It really is amazing how poor their writing skills are. Perhaps if they were better writers they wouldn’t have to cheat.

        • It’s not that their writing skills are poor; it’s their material. Good writing requires logical cohesion. Since there’s no really good logical reason for cheating other than “I felt like cheating,” and since so very few cheaters are ever going to admit that, you can see the problem right there!

          • Exactly kb! “I did it because I wanted to” just makes you sound like an asshole. Whereas if you dress it up with lots of word salad, the assholishness gets buried under croutons. So much more palatable.

            • It’s not poor writing. It is the same shit written over and over again. I have never read or heard an original thought from any of them.

            • Hi CL, check out “seasweetie’spages@ wordpress.com” – she is the initial OW. Actually, quite skilled in the wordsmith department, buy sadly lacking in the honor/integrity department. In her older blogs she admitted to being a serial cheater with multiple married men, but then later deleted those posts – probably realized how awful she sounded. I especially liked the piece she did in April, 2012 – a soliliqy about what a bastard my XH was for lying to her about a different AP…. 🙂

        • Could be that many cheaters are alcoholics so while they are writing they could be either buzzing or nursing a hangover

  • I’ve heard that cheating is like hiding a bomb in a peaceful trusting place….

    and then detonating it!!

    Oh hey but the resulting post traumatic stress and renewed behaviour must be their issue because that’s just the way they are and they should just get over it!!!

    Oops sorry the fairy dust is gone…

    Yay for covert behaviour! Not!

    WOW! What a manipulate, gaslighting, pig.
    His wife must be questioning her sanity.

    A suggestion for her:-

    RUN! yesterday already!

  • I’ve read his blog before and recently started reading the “affair stories” from former/current cheaters. There was one story (Charlie’s I believe it was) who said something about wanting his wife to accept part of the blame for his cheating. I was so mad when I read it that I left the comment: “your wife did not force you to cheat” and 30 seconds later my comment was removed.

    Talk about living in a bubble!

  • Wow. The biggest thing that stands out about this guy? He is Bitter. So hateful. And he doesn’t love his wife at. all. Not one bit.

    I’m amazed by the “semi-happy” bit. I’ve heard cheaters try to justify their affair because they were “miserable”. But just “semi-happy”? Talk about an overreaction. Sheesh, I’d love to be semi-happy. There are lots of people who would be grateful to be even in the ball-park of semi-happy. Nothing to complain about, and certainly nothing to screw over your wife about. There’s no excuse for cheating, but that’s one of the lamest ever. Does he think being married is always 100% Perfectly Happy all of the time? Does he think any kind of life (single, married, or otherwise) is 100% Perfectly Happy all of the time? Seriously?

      • Aw, poor little prince.

        I’ll call his bluff on that – he doesn’t sound Very Happy. Not to mention the overall negative tone of his writing…Let’s see: he resents his wife, resents his parents, and he even hates his recent AP and will never forgive her. Looks to me like he’s Very Unhappy, despite his proclamation of being an expert on this subject. Doesn’t sound like cheating has worked out too well for him, in the long run.

        • Actually, Ducks, he sounds like a narcky misogynist…and a not very covert one at that…afraid of women…cannot take constructive criticism…intent on blame shifting when he feels like the “heat” has subsided.

          The part that kills me is how “humiliated” he is because his wife doesn’t trust him and keeps tabs on him. Not to mention he manages to confuse “secrecy” and “privacy.” What in the ding-dong hell does he expect?!!!

          Indeed, he hasn’t learned a damned thing. Like others before me on here, I predict he will cheat again.

      • Nord, mine is just gone. Disappeared. Completely out of my life. Never hear anything about him, even from my kids. Sometimes it seems surreal after 36 years, but guess it’s better than dealing with a crazy bitter ex.

      • Yeah, my ex is extremely bitter as well. So defensive and so so pissed at me. Told me he wished I would die.

        Everything is my fault because I didn’t stick around after his cheating.

        I love how they get angry at us for their actions. Like, we do not have a right to be angry, but they do. Gawd, so glad that tool is out of my life for good.

        • My anger was apparently ‘just too much to deal with’ and ‘he never wanted to have an argument again like the one we had the night I found out’. Because, you know, I was slightly enraged and things may have gotten thrown, voices may have been raised, and serious words of condemnation may have been bandied about. Naughty, naughty me.

          • LOL, Same here. My STBXH had a house plant and a vacuum hurled at him the night I found out. Damn that felt good!

    • “Does he think being married is always 100% Perfectly Happy all of the time? Does he think any kind of life (single, married, or otherwise) is 100% Perfectly Happy all of the time? Seriously?”

      I think cheaters often do think that life is supposed to be a all-happy excitement express train ride. My ex told me he didn’t want to settle for a boring life (and his life is *far* from what most people would call “boring.” Lots of international travel; exciting, fun work opportunities; and few commitments or “adult” burdens). But, you know, that plus a solid marriage with no fighting or major problems….that was too boring.

      • “I think cheaters often do think that life is supposed to be a all-happy excitement express train ride. My ex told me he didn’t want to settle for a boring life (and his life is *far* from what most people would call “boring.””

        My ex also frequently spoke about how he couldn’t “settle for mediocrity” and how he needed a lot of zest and excitement in his life. I absolutely believe it’s typical of disordered people to think marriage — and life in general — should be a never-ending parade of rainbows and leprechauns leaping out of their asses. It’s part of their immaturity, their need for constant stimulation just to feel alive and their need for other people’s attention because otherwise it’s like they don’t even exist. That’s why the disordered create and thrive on so much drama all the time. They are empty inside, so must have endless outside validation to feel anything at all.

  • Many betrayed spouses don’t have the character and maturity and true love to forgive someone.  Many are often too invested in being the victim. Yours isn’t.  Appreciate it.

    Awesome. So if I don’t forgive and reconcile, it’s because I don’t / didn’t “really love him” and because of my bad character. Cuz, you know, my cheater, wanting cake and all, “really loved me” which shows his awesome character, right? Barf. Anytime someone tells me that me interpreting things differently than they do is both WRONG and grounds for CHARACTER ASSASSINATION I just want to scream. Years of gaslighting will do that to you. And holy gaslighting here, Batman!

    • My ex once said I was really judgmental to say that I thought it was wrong of OW to pursue my husband when she knew he was married to me. (Of course, I also said it was wrong of him too and that he was the one responsible for his actions since he was the one married to me.)

      • My X’s AP ( one of them anyway) was a friend of mine at the time. When I saw a pic of them (very graphic n leaving no doubt in one’s mind kind) and confronted him. He said, “you said I could never have a woman for a friend. She isn’t my friend. She is yours!”. Huh?!?! And?!?!?

        For this confrontation I was branded a liar! She said so your honor! Now she changed the rules!! Even now I get passive aggressive off hand never will b able to prove comments about my rule changing. It is very funny now. Glad to be past all this.

  • “Would I ever hit my wife, even if I caught her in the act with three men simultaneously, one man in each orifice. Leave her? Yes. Get a lawyer and try and take her to the cleaners? You bet.”

    Such a forgiving guy isn’t he? He isn’t at all petty, mean or victim minded! How noble of him to not HIT her but just leave her ruined. That’s just nobility not pettiness.

    Seriously, people – I cannot imagine WHY we can’t see his point of view. If he cheats n wife doesn’t reconcile then she is bitter, mean n victim minded. If she reconciles but watches over him, she is controlling n is humiliating him. (So that’s grounds for cheating. Why don’t u agree?)

    BUT if SHE cheats on him ( how DARE she?) then he will just ruin her.

    Sociopathic much?

    • “Would I ever hit my wife, even if I caught her in the act with three men simultaneously, one man in each orifice.”

      I agree. What a sicko.

    • This type of lack of analysis, the inability to see the contradiction in his stance is why a normal person will go crazy trying to discuss anything with someone like this guy.
      I’ve related this example before but I will again. My first wife graduated at the top of our law school class. So, she was , apparently ,reasonably bright. Despite this, when I pointed out to her that she was taking 5 times the amount of recreational time than I was, leaving me with vastly more child rearing and household duties( we both worked full time , too), she never disputed the accuracy of my allegation.
      Yet, she felt completely justified in having me do most of this work. She , actually, said this to
      Me: ” Of course I am going to take more time off than you. I have more friends(affair partners, apparently) than you.”
      Now, this made complete sense to her. In her world, with her values , it was completely fair.
      I had an “aha” moment when she said this. It was not a lack of intelligence but a fundamental difference in her view of life and the world.
      A normal, non-disordered person of just average intelligence could not bring herself to say something like this without feeling foolish, realizing the absurdity of the reasoning.
      Yet this magn cum laude graduate was completely comfortable with it because It was consistent with how she viewed her world and herself .
      She came at life with a sense of entitlement . She was better than the rst of us, more evolved, more deserving etc.
      You canno reason with the disordered . You have a fundamentally different theory of life and right and wrong.
      You will go nuts with frustration trying to reason with them . So, do not attempt it.

      • So true. There is no reasoning. Even if you state the obvious, and they agree, they’ll still promote their own agenda, around it. It’s nuts.

        I’m liberating myself from arguing anything with my STBX, for this reason. I’m finding it very freeing.

      • Yep. Arnold gets to the heart of the matter. You cannot make order out of the disordered. Chumps struggle to untangle the skein, but it is not possible. Disordered peoples’ thought processes are simply untranslatable to the normal mind.

      • Wow Arnold, I could have written that. Every word. Including the “lawyer” wife. LOL!
        The extreme sense of entitlement has nothing to do with us. I never understand why the psychologists never get this in MC.

  • I find it interesting that he couldn’t forgive his AP for “betraying” him by outing him to his wife, but he thinks that betrayed spouses who don’t forgive their unfaithful spouses are “petty,” “small,” “angry.”

  • OMG. What a complete, utter asshole. That guy’s bullshit reminds me so much of my ex. Hell, maybe it IS my ex for all I know. He certainly spouted similar bullshit to that cheating blogger, and my crazy ex was a guest host on some local radio show for awhile as a “relationship expert.”

    I feel so sorry for that blogger’s wife, and I hope and pray she dumps his sorry ass asap.

    • Funny that, my BPD ex (two exes ago, not the cheater) is now a ‘Relationship Expert’…

      If I crash a car, that doesn’t make me an Expert Driver.

  • “WTFuckity Fuck?” indeed, CL (I will be stealing that, by the way. Love it!). I almost hyperventilated due to the effort it was taking for me to attempt to untangle this particularly convoluted jumble of nonsensical blathering. Just when I think I have heard, seen or read the pinnacle of assholery, someone comes along who shows me that assholery just might not have a pinnacle – it just keeps rising – like steam from a field of cow shit.

    The kindest thing someone can do for this petulent, angry, selfish, self-absorbed, navel-gazing, whiny-assed titty baby is to punch him in the throat and the stomach and kick him in the testicles and suggest he have a nice, steaming cup of shut the fuck up. And that someone should be his long-suffering spouse.

    Let’s try to deconstruct a portion of his little diatribe that CL has so graciously posted, recognizing that “but” is an eraser word (also, “even if” as it is used as a replacement for “but”), so we will remove all the “but” phrases in order to get to the heart of what this shit-covered hell beast is actually saying.

    “Affairs are 100% wrong and I was 100% wrong for the decisions I made to start and continue one . . .
    My poor marriage, and my inner demons, were the “reasons” for my affair
    Many Betrayeds have a hard time grasping this concept
    Happy and content people in solid marriages rarely have them
    My affair was not just the expression of a man trapped in an unsatisfying reality
    was compensating for these things at some level, although this is definitely 20/20 hindsight. I didn’t realize it back then, and I’m still trying to work it all out on my head
    I’m no longer semi-happy. I’m very happy. PERFECTLY happy? Hardly.
    Optimistic. Happy. Looking forward to whatever years we have left together. I feel like part of a ‘couple’ again. I don’t feel like the guy I used to be any more. It was a big reason for why I ended up where I did.
    This blog entry is NOT for people who are in, or were in, an affair and purposely tell their Affair Partner’s spouse about the affair – whether it’s dead or not. That’s mean. Vicious. And a horrible betrayal of your Affair Partner, no matter what happens. I know because this happened to me. She thought by telling my wife that my wife would throw me out (and into her arms). It backfired. Drastically. Instead, I terminated things with her immediately and I will never forgive her for this and other vicious things she did and lies she told me. If you are the Other Man or Other Woman, you have no right to do that and it’s a stain on your character or maturity if you do it or contemplating it. Revenge is a bad idea. Don’t do it.
    She lied to me. In big ways. She did all she could to hurt me and my wife when I terminated things with her based on a D-day that she herself engineered.”

    It is interesting, is it not, that one of the few installments where the word “but” is not used at all is where he excoriates his side piece. No qualifications or erasure for her betrayal of HIM. What? She didn’t have an unhappy childhood? She didn’t sustain any injuries in childhood? Are we noticing a theme here? My wife did not make me happy, so I cheated on her. My family did not make me happy, so they forced me to cheat on my wife. My side piece did not stay in her place, she made me angry, ergo, she stopped making me happy so I left her for my wife. Now I’m kinda happy because my wife is doing back-flips to hold onto me even though her lack of trust is annoying to me – so I’m not REAL happy.

    In no way is this asswipe ever accountable for his behavior. Someone is always doing something to him that just fucks up his happiness quotient. He is full of faux introspection – which in reality is extrospection. Everything within him and about him is controlled by other people and external events. If all of these people would just do what he wants them to do and let him do whatever the hell he wants to do when he wants to do it and with whomever he chooses to do it, his life would be all blue bells and rainbows shooting out of a unicorn’s ass, dontcha know. Then he would be able to keep his dick in his pants – maybe, unless he felt a tad unhappy.

    This is one of the glaring differences between cheaters and non-cheaters – the ability to have accountability and accept responsibility – words for which he has no use unless he is using them in reference to someone other than himself.

    This is just another disordered turd from Satan’s ass using circular illogic to try to blame his psychopathology on any innocent bystander who will allow him to smear them with his shit. Fuck this Guy and and the snake he slithered in on.

    • Chump Princess:

      Well said! I think you nailed the bizarre, illogical logic of the entitled cheater. “I am good, but I sometimes do bad things because I was wronged. Other people who do what I consider bad things are bad. Everything would be fine if everyone would work harder to stop making me do bad things.”

      I dealt with a LOT of this crazy-making with my STBX. He cheated on me, lied to me, hid money, screamed at me, said awful, untrue things about me behind my back. His reasons changed constantly, but were along the lines of “You didn’t remember things I had told you” or “You seemed too busy with your job.” I wronged him. I was the baddie that caused my own hurt, and then continued to hurt him when I expressed my hurt, anger, and confusion with his behavior. He continued the affair and then bought himself a motorcycle to cheer himself up.

      Then, after a couple of years of dealing with this mindfuckery, his boss fired him. He spent weeks in bed, despondent. When he talked about the situation, he expressed that I wouldn’t understand how betrayed he felt— by his boss of one year. Right.

      I really hope this guy’s wife finds this site. No one deserves to be stuck with such an entitled, vacuous jackass.

      • “I am good, but I sometimes do bad things because I was wronged. Other people who do what I consider bad things are bad. Everything would be fine if everyone would work harder to stop making me do bad things.”

        This is AWESOME. You just summed it up very nicely.

        • Ah! This sums up my STBXH exactly! His childhood was horrible because of his parents. Our marriage was horrible because of me. But he’s a “good” person. Snort!

  • This week in “Piffles n’ Shit Magazine!”

    Christ…where do these assholes come from? I’m beginning to think that Whore Island might be a real place…

    I find it interesting that when his AP told the wife, he says that’s a mark on her character.

    Not the fact that she was fucking a married man. Not the fact that she had no qualms with hurting his wife behind her back. No, the fact that she was the bearer of TRUTH.

    To him, being the bearer of truth and honesty is a smudge on someone’s character. Telling the truth is bad to him. That’s all I need to know about this guy to tell him to go jump up his own ass and die.

    • Kara,

      If I ever have the unfortunate opportunity of having to speak to my STBX anytime soon, I hope he gives me the chance (which I’m sure he will – if I thought he could actually write, I would have assumed he had written that blog) to tell him “to go jump up his own ass and die.” LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

      • I actually got that phrase from “Archer.” Lana was telling Archer not to speak to her.

        “And while you’re busy not speaking to me, jump up your own ass and die.”

        Interestingly enough, she was telling him that because they had broken up. XD

        • OMG, Kara, this line made me cry laughing when I read it, it gave me a laugh punch!

          “Christ…where do these assholes come from? I’m beginning to think that Whore Island might be a real place…”

          That is hysterical!

          Look you bitter victims, don’t you get it, Cheaters are always right except when they are wronged! Gee, if only you can understand that simple fact, they would all be so happy, and don’t worry, it’s not your fault that they are that way. You deserve better.

          Does it all make sense now?

  • This man-child is bitter. Bitter toward his affair partner who “betrayed” him by outing the affair. Hypocrisy at it’s height. Of course he had no alternative but to reconcile with his wife and is now semi-happy as long she dines on the shit sandwich he prepared for her. Also, he would not forgive his wife is she cheated and would take her to the cleaners. Alrighty then….

    Self projection….most narcs accuse others of the very thing they are. He’s not bitter….yeah right…but easily points the finger at his chumpy wife to whom he has bestowed the gift of reconciliation. He is flabbergasted at her lack of trust….how dare she not be appreciative of his “false” remorse.

    He talks out of his ass…and is proficient in fart linguistics.

    All narcs communicate in word farts. He’s rather unoriginal and actually hilarious. I particularly enjoy his no “judging” stance, while his appoints himself judge and jury to those who disagree with him.

  • Everyone already covered it. This guy LOVES the Reconciliation Industrial Complex, it gives him his reasons and his excuses and places the blame for his actions squarely on his chumpy spouse. As stated above by all you wonderful peeps, the most staggering thing is his outrage and hate for the OW telling the truth to his wife and of course the predictable hate he has if his wife were to do what he did. I wish I could unclick his page.

  • Nord,
    All THIS ^. The therapist, the in laws, the blogger. Ex sis in law emailed me again about ” hating what happened” but wants a relationship with me because she ” loves my kids.” You hate what happened? Funny, because if I hated what happened, I wouldn’t have palled around with AP, H and my kids for many months before the divorce. That doesn’t sound like hating, that’s a stamp of approval. Words have meaning. Don’t you forget it, fellow chumps. She sent me this on her deceased mother’s Bday. I was very close with my MIL. She was a chump too, and it eventually killed her. I have gained the skill of waiting to react. I felt obligated to respond to this email, even though it was going be a very short, neutral, thanks but no thanks response. After waiting a few days, I gained some perspective and now see this email for what it is, PR with regard to my kids. These narcs are thinking years ahead about how the kids will recollect the actions of all parties involved. Yep, I’m just trying to get through a week and these motherhumpers are contemplating Xmas, 2025. Oh, did I mention XH had put in our divorce agreement thAt he wants half our wedding pics? More PR. Look how sentimental daddy is about mommy. Awwww……

    • Cut the pics in half and give him the halves containing only his image. That is all he cares about- himself.
      I threw out all wedding pictures, anything that had a photo with my XW in it. I wanted no reminders of the monster I had married.

    • I’ve got an ex SIL like that too, Nord, though she knows better than to communicate with me. Calling and texting and facebooking the kids although they don’t really know her at all and don’t care to. I wonder what her response would be if I made a nuisance of myself to her kids?

    • Whatawaste, most days I feel MEH about my ex. But his sister, who knew about his affair with his hs sweetheart, her supposed best friend, the whore he cheated on his wife with, and his fiancé with, and me with … she can go to hell. Along with her chump, cheater-empowering mother.

  • I’m pinching myself. This guy sounds like my cheater. Damn. Just yesterday he was all pissy at me because I had the gall not to inform him that I told my brothers- yes! People who CARE about me- the bullshit status of my marriage. His statement was that it made him look bad. And how many other people know? He can’t stand to have a tarnished image without the benefit of framing the message he wants me to send out to people who are supporting me right now.

    • I never held back on telling folks . I was gratified when it bothered the cheaters.
      This has been said before, but , clearly it is a sure sign of a personality disorder to have the gall to become upset over disclosure . Just another indication of how these folks are completely clueless as to the real cause of the injury.

    • Same with my XWH. He was infuriated when I told him that I informed my parents and siblings about his A. He actually said that it was “none of their business.” He was also angry when they cut him out of their lives and said that they wanted nothing to do with him. How dare I sully his reputation, and even worse, how dare those people believe me and then enact consequences!

      To this day, he is still pissed about that, especially since he resents the fact that I’m still in touch with his family and maintain a positive relationship with them. I guess that kind of highlights the fact that he’s a scumbag and the one at fault since my family shuns him, and his family still sends me cards for my birthday! 😀

    • My cheater told me that I was engaging in “character assassination” by telling people that he cheated and I kicked him out. Later he also accused me of “being bitter and sowing misery in the world.” And “letting other people put toxic shit” in my head because they were supportive of me.

    • Yep mine was hurt too. Aww…. poor sausage. When he found out I was telling everyone the truth he said ” I’m not going around vilifying you” ~ I just laughed. Crazy Fuckshits!

    • My ex sent me several horrible, vicious emails right after dday. Six months later, when I was dumb enough to fall for his bogus reconciliation, I told him that I had showed those emails to my mother and my brothers. He was so angry that I had done that, because it made him look bad. Never mind that he WAS bad, and that my family were obviously there for me. He then sent a bizarre email to my family saying that he hadn’t mean anything he had written in those prior emails, he had just written them to hurt me. And he also wrote that the Holy Ghost had descended on him and cured him of his homosexuality.

      Yes, he definitely talks in fart linguistics. No other way to describe the crazy nonsense that spouts out of his mouth.

  • Well, at least this guy confirmed everything we’ve known about cheaters. How’s that for validation?

    Have you read his July 15, 2013 entry entitled “22 months later, a setback”. His wife still doesn’t trust him after 22 months. Forget the fact that he cheated for 2 years and the hell with her for not trusting him after 22 months after D-day and she caused a setback? I feel terrible for her. It’s just a matter of time before he cheats if he hasn’t already. He’ll keep on writing the blog even if he’s actively cheating because it’s getting so many hits – kibbles galore. I would love to hear what his wife has to say. If she’s reading his emails (and I’m sure his blog), maybe someone can comment on his most recent post and put a link to CL’s post. Maybe she’ll get a clue.

    • To be honest, I believe his wife is not so gullible. I think she’s planning her exit strategy, maybe waiting for that ten year mark.

  • I LOVE that he turned on the AP! That is beyond hilarious. Thanks for reading and reporting on this colossal douchebag so we don’t have to visit his site. Still, I hope his chump wife finds your site, CL!

  • This Venn diagram really should be converted into one of CL’s cartoons. The text just doesn’t have enough effect for me. May I suggest some sort of combination of thief in the night and a unicorn?

  • This Venn Diagram is The Best graphic ever. So so funny and true. Another absolutely absurd part of this post is when Mr. Expert Cheaterpants calls out his AP. If you squint your eyes when you read his rant about his AP, and change the names so it reads like his wife ranting about him, the effect is hilarious:

    “This blog entry is NOT for… cheaters. That’s mean. Vicious. And a horrible betrayal of your… spouse, no matter what happens. I know because this happened to me. I will never forgive him for this and other vicious things he did and lies he told me. If you are the… cheater, you have no right to do that and it’s a stain on your character or maturity if you do it or contemplating it. Cheating is a bad idea. Don’t do it.”

    In other words, he’s accusing his affair partner of all the same things he just did to his wife. Except his sins were even worse.

  • Sadly, the distorted thinking of this so-called Reformed Cheater is disgusting yet probably pretty common if not universal to cheaters. I bet my XH would eat these kibbles up, and agree with every comment, judgment and blaming statement he makes. He would “Like” every justification. This is the hardest thing to get through my own head: This. Is. How. Cheaters. Think! Period. They are contemptuous of their chumpy spouses. They have no ability to feel gratitude or empathy. This blogger’s blah-blah is a good reminder to me (for my own mental health) to stop trying to untangle the skein of fuckedupedness. And is it just me or does he seems a little too fascinated by his own image of his wife having a 4-way! Possibly jealous?

  • CL,
    Your past 5-6 blogs were perfectly timed in their chronology of topics leading up to this one.

    This clearly backs up your old post about not trying to untangle the skin of fuckedupness.

    It’s simple, The Cheater is always right and justified in all that he/she does. Own it and accept it and move the fuck on.

    Cheaters walk into the relationship at the end and erase all that happened between the beginning and the end and it is now your fault the relationship or marriage is over. You are the one leaving, such a bad person.

    Or in the scenarios where they are the one to leave, they forget everything leading up to the end and it’s you that is making them leave because again you are the bad person, such a bad person.

    In conclusion, Who needs this insanity that always leads to you being the bad person. You the victim will always be the one victimizing the good, kind and oh so sensitive cheater.

    Why continue to breathe in the fumes from fart linguistics while living on whore island, listening to navel gazing music played by the Whiney Assed Titty Baby band.

    I salute you all and your comments on this post today.

    And with that I wish you all a good night!

    • I’m still with my husband. He’s tried to cheat (Craigslist whores anyone?!) and has had emotional affairs. He also tries to gaslight me on a regular basis. I was dumb enough to disclose what some of my emotional issues are early in the relationship. You know, to give him a heads-up so that he could choose whether he wanted to be with me while I work through my shit. Now, he just tells me I’m crazy whenever I have an averse emotional reaction to anything he does. Like you said, it’s always going to be my fault. Everything he does will be my fault. If we stay together, any negative feelings he has will be my fault. If I divorce him, it’s because I don’t know how to trust due to my foo issues. If he leaves me for greener (dumber?!) pastures, it’s because I’m “crazy.” Well, mabye I am. I wish I could get a barometer on normal so that I can tell what’s my fault and what’s on him.

      • Cheating or trying to cheat is on him.

        Being upset by it is normal.

        Do you think he is innocent and you are just not trusting enough?

      • I have suffered with severe panic disorder for most of my 23 year relationship. He knew exactly how and when to push my buttons with gaslighting and direct threats to make me crazy. Then o matter the conflict, I would acquiesce live Pavlov’s Dog. I know what it’s like to have a deficiency used against you and even worse, getting zero support when you actual work on and improve your emotional problems (and in the middle of a minefield! Nearly impossible!) You are stronger than you know. I admire your being up front with a romantic interest. I’m sorry it was exploited. It’s not your fault, it’s just what they do. Fore it was psychological exploitation, for the OW its financial.

  • CL,
    I see a play on the horizon, “Poor Sausage and Tired Twat”, a night of theatre where the audience gets to witness what life with a cheater is really like.

    • I referred to AP as “poor bun” but I love “tired twat” so I am borrowing it from you, Deborah. Thanks you!

  • Any man who talks about his wife having a foursome with three other males in such a graphic way , even if it is hypothetical, is scum.

    It reveals the deep rooted anger and disrespect he has for her and for women , in general.

    When he says that because his AP outed him he went back to his wife to spite her just about sums it up all.Not that he wants cake but that HE THINKSTHAT HE IS THE CAKE AND THE BAKERY AND THE GRANARY AND THE WHOLE WHEAT FIELD all by himself and that his wife should be ever so grateful that he bestowed her with his esteemed presence in her life.

    People, please please devise a way to get his wife on board here

    • Well said SR and that is another quality of Cheaters, the utter disrespect they show to women if a man and I can only assume the cheating women are the same in how they view and treat men. It’s really disgusting and revolting because it is so low and there is zero class or refinement about them, it is revolting to me actually.

      I really can’t believe now looking back at a year out that I was with such a pig. What a difference a year makes. There really was no quality about him that was attractive or nice it was all short spurts of smoke and mirrors, here and there.

      Wow, unbelievable.

  • we’ll said. thanks for reminding me how they(cheaters) are. I am living with a cheater and it’s this way all the time. Can’t wait to get out. The OW or OW’s can have him.I am addicted to this site. this site tells the truth.the writers are amazing and funny. Thanks Deborah, CL and fellow chumps. you make my day!

  • Just for the record, I studied up on what to say to family therapists during the divorce too. If you want custody and out of the relationship with all the shit, you play every one who may have the power to take your babies and your stuff.
    Find your best friend to be honest with. Find your own private therapist to bitch and scream and yell to.
    Bullshit that family therapist who may end up testifying in court. I didn’t learn all this on my own. I am (was) one of those ppl who just assumes the world (court) is full of helpful loving caring ppl who only want what is RIGHT. bullshit. There are assholes throughout the entire system and you may need to play them too. There are books for women who will tell you all this. I don’t like any of this. I don’t want to be this person. I am in mama bear mode. I am taking every lesson my mother and x2b taught me and I am using it all to save me and my kids.
    You may end up lucky but if not, there are ways to bullshit a therapist who takes the assholes side. I am not even exaggerating. I say fuck me over once, shame on you, cuz I will fuck you over twice as hard to make you pay.
    Read up on this shit before you walk into mediation, family therapist or talk to a GAL. Know the dam play ground before you walk out to play.

  • “She did all she could to hurt me and my wife when I terminated things with her based on a D-day that she herself engineered. But that’s not why I went back to my wife. But she certainly has shown me that I made the right decision and averted a real disaster.”

    So, after weighing all my options, I realized that I could not trust the conniving OW to connive only for me, and pretty much this is all her fault. So for now, I’m back with my wife and mostly happy, but not quite the man I used to be. And unless my wife, or, as I like to think of her, “The Three Orifices,” do something to make the marriage unsatisfying, or if my inner demons act up, I can say with a measured degree of certainty that I made the right decision, because as you can tell, I’m pretty fuckin’ awesome if you ask me. Soon I will be able to share blame with her, when she stops being an unreasonable betrayed. Orifices can act up some times, unpredictably, but they do a lot for me, like wash my underwear and keep the noise level to a minimum, so it’s all good for now. Also Jesus forgives me. Maybe you, too, can be like me.

  • I believe this guy is lying through his teeth. He gets ego kibbles from an anonymous blog only because his wife has him by the gonads. We haven’t heard her side, and I doubt she is as dumb as he says. I suspect she is just laying low.

  • It’s amazing the depths through which a person will go to abscond from what is inherently shame projection. Shame and self-hate is at the root of a cheaters behavior but unfortunately our culture conditions us to view character flaws/ spiritual vacuousness as an external issue.

    Chump Lady. The Laws of attraction brought me to you last night and I’ve been devoting thus healing space since last night. You are awesome.

    I want to claim you as my spirit animal but that would be classic narcissistic “love bombing.” Lol.

    • Welcome Melinda + loves! Well, if your spirit animal has weird curly hair I’ll accept the compliment. 🙂 As for cheaters, I’m of the opinion that they do not feel shame or self hatred. The disordered ones truly do think they are better than you and more deserving, and don’t feel one bit bad about it. It’s chumps that project OUR values on them. That they feel shame. That they hate themselves for this. Not so.

      Check out the works (in the amazon box) of Dr. George Simon. He explains it very well, also at his site http://www.manipulative-people.com

      But hey, whatever it is shame or no shame, you need to get the hell away from it.

  • I think my STBXW must have been reading this guys site… It is almost verbatim what she told me. She made a huge mistake, I didn’t take responsibly for my part of the affair, that I was wrong to not trust her after I found out and finally that leaving her was far worse than what she did.

    I’m not only soon to be divorced but soon to be out of the skein.

    Thanks, ChumpLady, I couldn’t have done it without you.

  • What a scumbag. I am reconciling with my cheater and reading this makes me want to give up and kick him in the nuts

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