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Dear Chump Lady, Can I destroy the OW, please?

Dear Chump Lady,

My husband confessed on New Years Eve to an emotional affair with a subordinate. I spent 12 months suspecting, he spent 12 months telling me I was delusional and needed professional help. Standard shit, above average mental abuse.

I’m a smoking hot mama, good body, dress like a rock star, stay at home sex machine who writes, paints, works in film freelance. I am cool. (Or at least I was before 2013, now I feel like a pathetic chump). Not needy, independent, never snooped in 27 years. Married 18 years, together 27 (I was 18) and had a drama free marriage. Until we didn’t. There were cracks, obviously, (financial, midlife, teenagers, first world shit) but another woman was not what I thought was going to happen.

Here’s my thang: Dickwad ended this in September, but I have all the emails from 18 months before. It reads like a 14 year old’s love life. She’s my age, a crap writer (judging by the correspondence), she looks like a mouth-breathing catfish. (Seriously. I should totally post her pic here), he never loved her, she never said she loved him, she’s a hillbilly married to an apparently nice guy, they have four kids. She still writes business emails that are too familiar, I get them all, but the contact is just business.

My ass-husband told me once she was in good shape and that was something he found attractive about her. I’m now obsessed with her. I’ve met her once (she dresses like my mother in law, not a compliment) and I saw her another occasion — a funeral where she stared at me non stop (with her mouth open, see above) — this was of course when their romance was blooming. Besides having more sex than we’ve had in like forever, the last 6 weeks have been awful as I try to navigate my next move. I’m on the fence about my future. He copies me on all their emails, she no longer texts. And I’m obsessed with her. This is someone I would have never crossed paths with in a million years, since I don’t RV at Walmart, so why is she taking up the space in my head? Can you please take her the fuck out of my mind? Can I anonymously destroy her? Please?

Nic

Dear Nic,

Oh sure. I have my newly patented ray gun right here. It zaps unrepentant cheaters with a beam of neutralizing ions, freshens and deodorizes too!

Okay I don’t have a ray gun. (Drat.) But if I did, I’d aim at your husband and not the OW. He’s the real problem here. You’re obsessed with the Catfish because in your gut you don’t trust a damn word he says. She’s a threat. We’re primal animals — we can sense a threat.

So they worked together, still work together, it was an 18-month affair (that you know of) and he’s saying it was just “emotional”? Ye-ah. You might want to rethink that. If the emails you have are from his work account, and those are the ones you’re cc-ed on now, consider that they’ve been using another account to conduct the affair, and have kept work emails G-rated (i.e., like a 14 year old’s love life). Grown-ups in close proximity don’t generally carry on in a goopy, obsessive fashion unless they’re fucking. If you only had a few weeks of this, okay, I might believe an emotional affair. But a year and a half? No.

Whatever evidence you have, you need to share it with Mr. Catfish, father of four. He deserves to know what his wife has been up to, emotional affair or otherwise. Tell him because he deserves the dignity of the knowing the truth. And tell him because it rains consequences down upon the OW and keeps her on a shorter leash (if her husband wants to reconcile). If her husband dumps her, and she’s off the leash, that’s good to know too. She’s free and focused on your husband? You’re going to know about the affair, because she will put demands on your husband.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he “confessed” on New Year’s Eve. Affairs are often revealed at the holiday season, because it becomes harder for cheaters to juggle their double lives. He probably wanted to get in front of the narrative to control it. Just an emotional affair. His actions — gas lighting, blame shifting, mental abuse — show that he’s not one bit sorry. Oh, that and the fact that he STILL WORKS WITH HER. If he wants to reconcile with you, dude needs to find another job. That must be on the table. And he also needs a soul — he needs to feel terrible about what he did. Seems to me he’s just really enjoying the pick me dance from you — more sex, you obsessing about the OW, and playing marriage police. OW flirted with him! That wasn’t business! Sends you into a spasm of pick me sex. Win, win for him. You know what else goads the pick me dance? Him telling you how attractive the OW is.

Fuck him. You know how you stop obsessing about the OW? You start trusting that your husband sucks. He’s not a prize to fight over. He’s a guy who dished out, in your words “above average mental abuse.” He cheated and he doesn’t seem terribly sorry. His big concession to transparency is cc-ing you on flirty work emails.

As I’ve said here before — he’s a dog turd. Don’t fight over a dog turd. She wants to fight for a dog turd? That says more about her than the fact that she’s a mouth-breathing hillbilly. It says she’s morally retarded. Be above this shit. Know your worth.

Put the focus back on yourself. Is this treatment acceptable to YOU? Is this the marriage you want? Do you feel safe in this marriage? Can you ever feel safe again? Do you think you’re getting the whole truth? Time to pull out the big guns. As you say you’re already on the fence, go see a lawyer.

You have power here, and your husband needs to understand that. Workplace affair? He’s putting his company in danger of a harassment lawsuit. (Yes, even consensual relationships can be considered creating the wrong sort of environment.) And she’s a subordinate. Your lawyer can threaten to depose the affair partner and anyone else who knows about this workplace affair. I’d say, get out of this marriage before he’s fired for this inappropriate relationship. Use the leverage of exposing this affair to win a settlement off him. Stop taking his shit, and stop pick me dancing.

Nothing like empowerment to erase thoughts of the OW. She’s a symptom of his entitlement. If it weren’t her, it would be another set of trailer park tits. The problem is that your husband thinks it’s okay to fuck around on you and blame you for it. Time to rock his world. And I don’t mean in bed, I mean in a lawyer’s office.

Ask Chump Lady

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  • I know this type, he chooses affair partners that are beneath him…in his mind. That’s the worst type of cheat. You end up comparing your self and if not careful spending too much time in making sense of his craziness. Hillbillies, ghetto fab, people that live in trailers, uneducated and poor people does not go hand in hand with poor moral values. This guy is really playing with your head as he takes you down a notch. Don’t let him do it to you!

    Take your power back. Just do you because while he may parade her in front of you, he certainly doesn’t want anyone else to know about his down grade!

    • You make a good point. We can throw out snark about hillbillies and Walmart (hey, I shop there). She doesn’t suck because of her socio-economic status — she sucks because she’s cheating.

      • I’m glad I’m seeing some responses to the OP indicating that technically one’s socio-economic status shouldn’t be the reason for our disdain. Being poor, “trashy”, ugly, dumb, etc. doesn’t necessarily go hand in hand with morally corrupt. To be honest, if it wasn’t for the fact that I already empathize with the OP, I would criticize her for being one uppity judgmental woman. In all fairness to us highly educated cultured folk, and yes, I would like to include myself in this category, there’s nothing worse than being “trashy” and morally bankrupt. It’s as if they jumped off a bridge, they would do us a favor. Fuck them.

      • I agree.

        I do think certain types of “high status” men choose women who are poor or underprivileged in order to feel extra superior, and because they are most comfortable with large power differentials.

    • There really is something to this.

      My WXH cheated with a bunch of OW who were all less attractive, less educated, and less professionally accomplished than me (yes I admit to obsessively researching them online).

      My good friend made a good point. WS like that, those that so obviously affair down, do so because of their own insecurities.

      I bet your H wanted to feel like “the man”. But because of his low self esteem he felt he couldn’t compare to you. So he went out and got someone who would think he was god’s gift with very little effort. In short, you rock, and it made him feel bad.

      Not your problem. You need a guy with a stronger sense of self, who instead of competing with you will celebrate your awesomeness.

      • This is my XWH to a tee. Not only did he use AM to find a “partner,” but the woman that he picked is “less than” I am in every way that I can think of. She’s a shitty mother because she ditched her family to meet a man she met on a cheaters’ site for unprotected sex. Not only could she have endangered her own life if my XWH had been a psycho and/or given her an STD (and left her children without a mother), but she didn’t even have respect for herself by insisting that he use a condom. The thrill of illicit, unprotected sex (since XWH is fixed and couldn’t get her pregnant, but even then, she was taking his word for it) was more important to her than being safe for her children’s sake or treating herself with respect.

        She’s less attractive than I am, far less educated than I am, shows very poor judgment in other ways as a parent… but it was ALL about my XWH feeling like he was “the man.” Down to the very fact that she is much shorter than I am so that he can loom over her, he picked someone who would make him feel smart, strong, and competent. I imagine that she looks up at him adoringly since she thinks he’s such a catch, and she never questions his decisions (like I did when it came to certain expenses… once I was out of the picture, he started spending with abandon on things that I felt were unnecessary and impractical).

        I was happy to ditch that weenie; I am a strong, independent person, and it was NOT my job to boost his poor, widdle self-esteem with false flattery. I want an equal. You deserve this as well, Nic. You need to free yourself from this albatross so that you can some day find someone who thinks you’re amazing instead of staying with someone who feels insecure around you or intimidated by you and has to have an A to make his poor, sausagey self feel better.

    • Well, STBXH picked someone 10 years older than me, less educated, make less money, less attractive, fake boobs, evil looking, and looks like a hooker/stripper (I am told this by a number of male co-workers who have seen them together). STBXH and I work in the same company and he is 14yrs older than me. My career took off the last 4 years and I am moving up as he stay the same. Maybe this is why he picked affaired down as he need someone to feed his ego. The funny thing is many of our male co-workers are making comments like “what is he thinking?”, “did he go crazy”, and “you look so much hotter.”

      STBXH still deny the affair and still claim they are “just friends” and how he need a “friend” through this tough time. What a friend he is. Taking her out to eat almost everyday, paying her electricity, and buying her gift. I think STBXH is confusing prostitute with friend. One of the gift was a Prada blue wallet that cost over $500 which is a brand he only knew because I have a Prada purse and bought him a Prada wallet. I am not sure who he is fooling but himself that they are just friends.

    • Do you think women who aren’t conventionally attractive are beneath him…could it be he isn’t ‘looks focussed’.

      • My ex also picked someone “less than” from another country, with an entry level job (even though she is 50+) with 2 different kids from 2 different men neither of which she married, also happens to be very small. (not that it matters, but much different) She is also several years older than him. Someone mentioned EASY which seemed to be an element in the thing for my ex. He said “no effort” was involved in getting into her pants-ewwwww!) believe the same thing, if they show the man/person that they are so great and are so adoring, make them The Man, etc, they begin to look pretty damn good!! My ex described her as a “7 or 8″ (I am not kidding & I did not ask for that information!) so when I went to the store she works in to see her, I was looking all over! Then I realize due to her nametag, that this was her!! About 4’11” (not that that matters but I am 5’6″) I am very white, she is very dark, English challenged, and above all, she had what I call “soulless eyes” which I have seen in street children overseas. I could not believe that I could possibly be so low on the “food chain” to come in second to this! But that was before I understood what I do now about cheating, that it is not about you, it is about their lack that I guess even they ARE often aware of! Until he came out of the “fog,” he continued to think she was just great! Now that he lost it all he has come to his senses & thinks WTF??? Now he says she is stupid and ugly!??!!?? But damage done.
        By the way, she knew it was me when I showed up due to photos in the bedroom he fucked her in & I could tell she got a great thrill out of screwing someone like me over & I am sure she has done it many times. She says she just wants sex, but what she wants is MONEY!! DUH!!
        One thing I have read is that not only chumps are attracted to NARCS, but other personality disorders like “Histrionic” which in short are sexualized drama queens using sex for power. To fuck someone over like us is better than sex!! It a life accomplishment!

        • 4’11 and 6ft wide and 27 years his junior. Yep I’d walk out on me for that too!!! Oh and did I mention she’s bisexual and polyamourous. Who needs a wife and kids when you won that!

  • Nic, I completely agree with CL. I did the pick me dance for years…false reconciliation, transparency (or so I thought), emotional affair only (or so I was told). Two years later he did it again, and with more than 1 woman! Please know your worth and get out. You deserve better than his bullshit. My ex married the OW in November so I obsess about her still, but now it’s different. The obsession is not about her and my ex anymore (she can have him!), it’s about her being a “stepmom” to my kids. She tries to take on the mother role and it pisses me off! I struggle on a daily basis to stop focusing on her.

    Also, I agree with telling Mr. Catfish. I did that with my ex’s first 2 affair partners, but sadly this last OW wasn’t in a relationship that I know of, or I would have done it again. I also found out about his latest affair because someone had the decency to contact me and let me know about it. Three years later and I am still in contact with that guy. I thank him continuously for letting me know because otherwise, who knows where I would be today. When I confronted my ex and asked “why” his answer was ‘I didn’t think you’d ever find out”. So, without that email from a complete stranger I would have been living in hell and not even knowing it. Do him a favour and let HIM decide where his marriage goes from here. Don’t let her run the ship.

    • I am SOOOO with you there, girl. My ex is getting married in April. I agree…she can have…HIM…but my kids, that is just another story. They were 4, 2 and 10 mos. when they “got together”, so my kids have known her for about 3 years. Capitol B. A. R. F.
      Mine tries to take on the mother role, too, and my ex is more than happy to let her. You and I have a LOT in common…
      The biggest mistake I made was not telling my Mr. Catfish right away. That would have changed things. It is counter-intuitive, but it is the MOST important thing that the OP should do.

      • Sorry to hear that we’re in the same boat starlight. My ex totally thinks that the OW should take on a mother role. He even told me that her and my girls are “best friends”. Makes me sick! The OW even took my 10 year old daughter out to buy her first bra 🙁 She doesn’t even need one yet…she just wanted to steal the moment from me.

        The biggest mistake I made was not being honest with my girls. I was trying to ‘protect’ them from who their dad really was. They still do not know (3 years later) that their dad cheated with her and that’s why we broke up…because he broke his promise to me. Just last week I decided it’s time to have that conversation…I’m just waiting for the right time. So, my little girls LOVE her…she’s so wonderful and buys them things. Their dad is their “hero”…BARF is right! I will never say bad things about their dad…but they have a right to know what happened.

        Unlike you, I told all the Mr. Catfishes (plural…sick!) RIGHT AWAY. But you know what…all that did was have those OW back away from my ex to ‘save’ their marriage. At the time, I thought great, I’ve got him back. But now I see I was just doing the pick me dance and he just moved on to find another OW. I will never regret contacting those men…I think they have the right to know what’s going on in THEIR marriage, but for me, all it did was delay the inevitable. He was going to find someone else anyway.

        • I have to come out of lurkerdom to reply to this comment. Please don’t do it Sick of HER Chump. You are still doing the pick-me dance, only now with your children rather than your husband. Right know they are having positive interactions with their father and OW, and you want to make them negative. Think of what that will do to the kids. I know, my father had an affair, and married the OW. Our mother made sure that we knew all the gory details, and that we were “loyal” to her, by being appropriately nasty to the OW. And let me tell you it sucked. Our mother wasn’t there, she went no contact. But we had no choice. We had to have the interaction, but felt horrible. If we had a good time we were betraying our mother, and if we had a horrible time, we spent a lot of our free time having a horrible time. I would have preferred that she just “trust that they sucked” and let me figure out how unreliable and sucky the OW was. I’m not against telling the truth, just the implication that you are telling the truth because it is your goal to have your children hate their father and the OW. Don’t get pulled into that drama! You are the Mom, and you ALWAYS win. If I’m wrong about that, I apologize in advance. I don’t mean to offend, I just wanted to put out their the experience of a kid who went through it.
          Ironic isn’t it that when I grew up I picked the biggest sparkliest NARC to cheat on me? OK, not the biggest, I think Glad its over wins that competition!

          • My intention is NOT to have my children hate their father and the OW. In 3 years I have never said a bad thing about him or her. That is the reason why the wedding was so ‘exciting’ to them. CL wrote an article a few back titled “My ex is a fuck up. I don’t want my kids to be fuck ups too”. In that article I specifically asked about talking to children and CL recommended being honest. Will I tell my children that they had sex in the back of an ambulance WHILE on shift. No. Will I tell them that he removed his wedding ring every time he had sex with her. No. Will I tell them that one of the women was underage? No. But right now my kids believe that we just don’t love each other anymore, and I’m not ok with that. Using age appropriate terms (CL recommended talking about ‘promises’ for example) I will explain that the reason their dad and I are not together anymore is not because we fell out of love, but because their dad broke a promise to me…a promise that we both made to each other. Simple. End of story. I know my kids will figure it out on their own…they always do. My parents are also divorced and I figured it out. I just want to be clear that my intention is NOT to hurt my kids or destroy their relationship with their dad. He will do that on his own. I simply want my kids to know that you don’t just fall out of love (ie-I’m not going to fall out of love with them) and answer the questions that they have had and I’ve pushed aside because I was afraid to answer.

            • I totally understand that! I agree that it is good to answer direct questions with the truth. Saying “I cant stay married to your Dad because he has a girlfriend and I don’t like that” when your kids ask why you arent married is completely different than sitting the kids down and essentially saying ” I’m not OK with you thinking that your step-mother is a fun person, because she is really a cheating wh***”. I didn’t have children with my cheater (thank God!!!) so I am in no position to judge, I just was a kid faced with spending a lot of time with someone that my Mom would continually pit me against by reminding me that she and my father were no-good lowlife cheaters responsible for the break-up of all that was good in our family. Honestly, that conflict made me resent my Mom for putting me in that position, though it does not reflect well on me to say so. I guess this is why it stinks so badly to have to keep raising kids with a cheater — you have to accept that your kids still love someone you hate. Thanks for clarifying, I really don’t mean to criticize, I just wanted to give the advice that I wish my mother had taken. Glad you didn’t need it!

              • I explained it to my 5 year old in the “promise” fashion. I told her that Mommy and OW ae NOTgoing to be friends, but it was OK if my kids liked her and that I wanted them to like her and be friends. I also let them know that I wish I could always be with them, but I want them to enjoy themselves and have fun when they aren’t with me. My ex (who in a MILLION YEARS does not care about this) asked my 7 year old if he could take her to get her ears pierced (he knew that was important to me). Because she is AWESOME and because I had already talked to her and let her know that this is something that a mommy/daughter does together, she said “no”. She is so awesome. In case you think that my ex actually gives a SHIT about her ears, I PROMISE you the answer is NO. I had specifically used that example on numerous occasions about what was important to me. It was a power play. Talk to your kids about what you want to do together…

              • I’m just curious if this is the type of thing that could be negotiated in a court setting? I’m not that far up in the process, but attorney friend who doesn’t practice family law, seems to think it’s a valid point to bring up to a judge.

              • What makes it valid is if it affects or has impacted division of property. Affairs cost a lot of money. My ex was so blissfully happy with his new love that he walked out on a mortgage he could easily afford and abandoned his three college aged children. At least I qualified for financial aid and knew to talk with the bank when I realized exactly what my Ex meant to do. Lawyers were no help. Didn’t believe my ex was going to be hostile as he chose to cheat which was to me the same as choosing to divorce. Lol Monika, you need to know exactly what you need in the divorce. If you have any doubts about finances be sure to bring that up. What destroys financial security is the length of time it takes to be granted a divorce. In CA mine took two and a half years. My ex dissipated our community property before I realized he was leaving our marriage. I asked for a full financial disclosure, too late though, set the terms of my settlement, did not budge and then moved as far away from that POS as I could. Good luck. A lot of good info is on line as well.

            • Sick of Her Chump,
              I agree it is appropriate to tell your children. I did with mine, with no gory details. Simply, their father and OW were boyfriend/girlfriend before we decided to get divorced, and married people do not do that. I have not yet mentioned that she was still married as well, as I do not have the specific dates to confirm that, but it is obvious given the timeline. I also waited an entire year to tell them. I waited until I was past the anger stage and could honestly tell them that for the most part I pitied their father.

              For me the point (as was mentioned) is for the kids to know that you do not simply “fall out of love.” Marriage is a partnership which takes effort.

              My exH was also upset that I mentioned there was more than one AP.
              um, it is part of the story, and explains much.
              But it ruins his narrative, relationship with last OW (now Owife) is ok because it was “meant to be”, he “fell out of love with and the marriage was long over, etc.”

              I do not worry about OWife being a pretend mother since they are now overseas, but I do worry about her buying the kids love (a Coach bag for Christmas, really? for a 12 yr old? etc) But the kids are smart and will see the difference between being an acquaintance and who takes care of them.

              • As a kid my mother got in a fight with my grandmother (her MIL). It was awful and they ended up not speaking for 5 years. I constantly had to listen to vitriol my mom spewed about her. Whenever my grandmother would send a birthday card with a check, my mom would make me tear it up. I worried that my grandmother would think I never got it. It was a tough situation for a kid to be pulled between two people she loved. To this day I’m not really sure what all the fight was about, and it most likely was because my grandmother was critical of my mom’s child rearing. Still, because my mom was so bitter and angry it made me feel sorry for my grandmother. Although this wasn’t a divorce situation, it does confirm what I’ve read, that kids end up being closer to the non-blaming parent in a divorce no matter whose “fault” it is.

                I do think it’s appropriate to let kids know the truth, that a promise was broken and that you loved their dad. That it deeply hurt you but you’re going to take care of yourself and be okay. They say the best thing you can do for your kids is to be happy.

              • I told my kids right out of the gate but didn’t have a choice. We went from having a happy family holiday to me finding out within days and kicking him out so the whole ‘we grew apart/the marriage was crumbling’ story ex tried to peddle wasn’t really washing. I simply told them that dad had been dating outside the marriage and met someone else.

                Then I found out about the rest (thanks close friend for fucking my husband! While I was being your big support during a ‘difficult time’!) and really fell apart. There was no hiding that things were awful and much worse than him just screwing some dipshit at the office. So when the kids asked me if there was more, if there were other women I simply said ‘your dad has not been very respectful to our marriage’. Then they started grilling him and he, being stupid, let a lot of stuff slip.

                So they came back to me (yes, they were trying to untangle) and asked me point blank how many women there had been. I said, honestly, that I didn’t know. And they figured out that it was more than final OW.
                I’m glad she’s nice to the one kid who will see her, but she’s as manipulative as ex and the one who sees her is getting that it’s all about her and what she wants. When he asked her how she could date a married guy she said ‘well, what about love’ and he said (bless his heart) ‘but it takes time to fall in love so you were dating him for awhile without knowing it could be love.’

                My kids get it and although I’ve had a few moments where I lost it and gave too much info in general I keep it to the basic info and let the rest slide. Quite frankly, he hasn’t changed a jot (despite him shouting at me that he’s a ‘changed man’) and it shows every time one of the kids sees him. They come back with ‘dad’ stories, trying to make sense of the crazy and I just tell them that they shouldn’t bother trying to figure other people’s behaviour out or make sense of what doesn’t make sense and instead put that focus on themselves and those who are there for them.

                They’re doing well and therapy has helped them a lot.

              • Nord, your kid is an effing GENIUS!

                ‘but it takes time to fall in love so you were dating him for awhile without knowing it could be love.’

                That right there knocks away every single cheater who justifies their end result with the “it was for love explanation”.

              • Thanks zyx321. Can I ask you how you managed to bring up the subject since you waited a year to tell them? That’s my dilemma right now…I don’t want to bring it up out of the blue but I’m not sure how to do it since it’s been so long. I spoke to the OW on the phone about the bra incident and she didn’t care. She used to text my oldest daughter EVERY SINGLE DAY. Now that she’s married to my ex she hasn’t done it once…not once since the beginning of November. I guess she got what she wanted, but I’m ok with her pulling away and leaving the mothering to me.

            • Your father lied and cheated out of a life he promised to your mother. He hurt your family in an irrevocable manner – why would you WANT to have anything to do with someone who was dishonest to you – he stole your time and made time and used energy to screw around behind not only your mother’s back but yours as well. He stole from you too. If in fact we say that consequences for this ultimate in poor behavior should be that we collectively say “f-em” and move on, why shouldn’t children recognize that the cheater is scum to them too? Because the hurt, the lying, the manipulation is not reserved for just the husband or wife – it wrecks, changes, debilitates the FAMILY. The parent that chooses this path is not to be trusted – they are selfish and immature. Simply because that person sired you or gave birth to you and is related to you biologically, does not mean they are a good or even reasonable person to associate with. Why do we expect us to be able to get rid of the toxic but have our children put up with it? Cheaters have choices, but they should also have consequences.

              • We’ll to start out with the simplest response , courts rarely agree with you on this. Most of the time custody is shared, no matter whether infidelity is involved or not. so the kids end up spending a good deal of time with the cheating spouse, and this sets up a conflict that is painful to the kids.

                second, and more controversially, the attitude of “you shouldn’t want anything to do with them” is painful and unhelpful for the kids when they DO in fact want something to do with their parent. hoe long did it take you, an adult, to decide that they suck and you want nothing to do with them? For kids it’s even harder, because while the marital bond has been broken, the parental one has not. Having the chump devalue that bond before the child has concluded that the parent is really dysfunctional is really harsh. My father behaved in a really scummy way to my mother, but he never abandoned us. Showed up for games, supported us in college and through several bad relationships, and generally did the dad stuff as best he could despite his limitations as a moral person. So I’m supposed to reject that, or face the anger of my other parent at my betrayal?
                Cheaters should pay for their actions, but it is not their children’s job to make them pay.

              • I’m sad to read this bc it’s a reminder that children “can turn out” either way: supportive of the cheater parent or not. I understand your point about wanting and needing the other parent in your life (because after all, they’re still my parent), but as a mother myself, I fear this greatly. Ideally, I’d love for my child to cut off ties with their cheater/ disordered mom/dad and move on to a better role model. Healthier for everyone involved really.

              • Heartbroken; I know what you mean….my daughter had to get through a divorce too. I was afraid her Father would hurt her also with his lies and vitriol. I lucked out because he didn’t take up much space in her life after the divorce. This strength on the part of a single parent being attacked from every angle is almost superhuman. If these cheaters put as much effort into their marriages as they did in court, through nastiness said to the kids, snide hurtful comments, etc., this site would not exist!

              • Actually I hear you. This week in Melbourne a father who has been estranged from his wife for sometime but saw his son once a week in fact bashed his son to death in front of children and their parents at a football oval after training. He was shot dead himself by police. But the instant outrage was that bitch of a mother, no wonder he was angry. That foolish family law courts, no wonder he became violent…..the barage of negativity to mothers, alienating parents. The truth is he has a history of violence, had 5 warrants and had a collection of child pornography that he was in trouble for. His estranged wife let the son spend more time with him when he was killed by him. And her comments were that she knew he was a threat to herself, but that he loved his son. This is an extreme of the hurt these parents influct on their children. My girls are teens. They do know the truth and they have made their own choice to have very little to do with their sperm donor father. He walked out on them too. He cheated them and cheated on them, then, rather than check in about how they felt, he accused them of being spoilt brats when they showed no interest in OW or his new life. He abandoned them. I have to trust they are capable of making their own decisions based on the truth.

    • I worry about my XW’s OM being the “stepdad” to my kids too. If they get married, I worry he will try to steal them from me like he stole my wife from me. Valentine’s Day always angered me when I was single (this year will be no exception) but at least I get to have a new Valentine – my little girl who I think I’ll take to lunch that day.

      • CW, would you consider making Valentine’s Day even more special for your little girl by getting her a nice piece of jewelry (nothing expensive but not plastic either) she can wear everyday and tell her it’s a promise ring (bracelet, necklace, whatever). A promise that you will always be her daddy and she will always be daddy’s girl. And maybe you can start talking about the “first” things only you and her could do together. You can take turns coming up with what those things will be. I bet it will make her feel so special and the OM will never be able to take that away.

  • I’m a smoking hot mama, good body, dress like a rock star, stay at home sex machine who writes, paints, works in film freelance. I am cool. (Or at least I was before 2013, now I feel like a pathetic chump).

    Well, if you go the divorce route and then work through the emotional baggage, I doubt you’re going to have a problem finding dates unless you want to have problems finding dates, anyway.

    So… what were we talking about again? lol

    • Exactly.

      Now, I realize that beauty is entirely in the mind of the beholder, but for the cheater to say, “well, she was in shape” when he’s married to someone who’s in shape–can we say disconnect?

      This kind of cheater logic just goes to show why the Pick-Me dance is basically a pole dance for the cheater. You can’t win the competition because the point is that the cheater gets off on the fact that there is one.

  • Dear Nic,

    Welcome to the best place for advice & information for dealing with what you have been handed!!!

    I agree totally with CL’s advice and input! Beautiful!

    I only found this amazing site a week ago (through Dr. Simon’s web-site) and have received probably the very best help I ever have through all the years I have been dealing with my mess.

    One of the most important things to do is to continue to be a quality human being, the sane parent for your children. This includes, in my opinion, the words we use to describe what they have done and how we feel about what they have done.

    IMHO, since all of the cheaters use foul words and phrases, my personal concept of ‘living well’ means that I avoid using those ugly words and phrases myself. Helps to elevate myself above their filth.

    I realize that my view on this matter is not shared by many of the posters here, nor is it shared by CL herself, but I still wanted to share my thought on the subject.

    Please, Nic, read all of the articles that CL has listed just to the right of the post. The information is priceless and essential. You must stop obsessing about the ‘pig!!

    Educating yourself and acquiring new skills will help you keep your dignity and your sanity.

    Read through the posts and the comments. What you learn will strengthen you and, at times, entertain you, too!

    Hang tough!

    Love to all………….

      • I couldn’t live through infidelity and not use my potty mouth! It was as if one of my younger, rowdier inner children jumped in to deal with Mr. Ass-wipe on Liberation day. It’s one of the tools that helped me keep my anger focused where it belonged. Sure surprised the cake eater!

        • I use my potty mouth deliberately. There are so many euphemisms when we talk about infidelity — wayward, the fog, brokenness, mistake, etc.

          I want to drop bombs on that. F bombs. Fucked. Shit. Pissed off. Fucktard. Cheater (not wayward). Chump (not “betrayed spouse.”)

          The language is intentional. Especially chump. Chump means a person who was conned, made to feel stupid, used.

          Betrayed spouse by contrast strikes me as soppy and victim-centric. Yes you betrayed. Betrayal is a strong word too. But CHUMP means more than betrayal, it means you were played for a fool. I want people to get angry about that. A nice, sanitized language doesn’t do it for me.

          Besides the naughty words are the most satisfying. I know it puts some people off, but chump ANGER puts people off. We’re just supposed to eat the shit sandwich and be nice about it. When our language about what happened to us changes, WE change. No more euphemisms.

          • Dearest CL,

            I really do love you and your spunk! Do not get me wrong!

            I do understand why many do use those words and phrases, as what cheaters have done is so sick, filthy and perverse!!

            Believe me, your way of expressing has not prevented me from loving your blog! As I mentioned to Nic, I have received so much benefit here, so much love and yes, so much laughter.

            I knew I could share my opinion on the words and phrases issue, as this site is a lovely, safe place to share!

            By the way, am so glad you shared Muriel’s story. It has been as much of a blessing to her as to us!

            Forge on, my friend, forge on!

            Love to all……..

              • Hey CL and all you other wonderful people!!

                Just got in from a long day and am thoroughly enjoying reading all the comments to this post!!! WOW! What an awesome bunch you have attracted, CL!!

                Yes, CL, I figured it would take WAY more than that to offend you! (though that is never my intention in any situation!)

                This is one of the main reasons, for me, that I have gotten such value from your blog—–can safely share my thoughts. Hugs to you for doing this………

                Take Care….
                More another day

                Love to all…………

              • I just wish there were even WORSE words to use for these lowlifes! Even dredging up the worst words in the English language do not begin to describe the depth of pain, revulsion, shock, despair, confusion, embarrassment and shame a Chump is faced with blindsided because they could not imagine doing this to anyone. And so the key to Chump City is passed on……….I enjoy the big bad words in this venue!

          • When I started using CL’s language, my son just about died … laughing. He thought it was awesome that his mom can no longer tell him not to use inappropriate words.

            I have to say using my potty mouth on occasion has contributed to my healing. Saying it the way it feels in case of infidelity is perfect.

            • I’m a writer who has worked in news rooms so swearing is pretty common in my world but I usually kept it to the office and for drunken times. Now? I’m Mrs. Blue Streak and the kids are getting quite bad. I try to rein them in but it’s pretty hypocritical of me, which they gleefully point out, so I take a page from a friend’s book (also a chump) and tell them there’s a time and a place and it’s not in front of certain relatives or in a professional situation and they’re pretty good about knowing how that works.

              Quite frankly, ‘bad’ words aren’t bad, they’re just another way of expressing ourselves and sometimes so-called strong language is needed. Or, as the man interviewed in the factory by a politician said about the machinery: the fucking fucker’s fucked. It’s a verb! A noun! An adjective! The most versatile word in the world and when you look at other languages you realise we are positively BLESSED to have so many ‘strong’ words to work with.

              Keep strong, fuckers!

          • Fuck yeah, CL! You really rocked with this advice. I’ve I’d heard something like this 2 years ago (and was ready to hear it) things would be much further along for me now. I totally get what you mean by CHUMP here. After I found out about the other two affairs that my wife didn’t confess (and was still having, BTW), I remember feeling like I was on a stage in front of a big, laughing crowd and had just shaken the hand of the person who made me the butt of the joke.

          • I don’t often swear. But after what I’ve been through? I feel that I’ve earned the *right* to use those words.

            I lived it. I was fucked over. My ex is fucked up. And the OW is a whore, which, as another poster mentioned, is according to Webster’s dictionary not swearing, it’s just being accurate.

              • I called my ExNH a “whore fucking bastard”. He looked at me shocked so I reminded him that it was accurate. Well, his parents were married when he was born so I guess he was just a whore fucker!

          • IMHO, since all of the cheaters use foul words and phrases, my personal concept of ‘living well’ means that I avoid using those ugly words and phrases myself. Helps to elevate myself above their filth.

            ________________________
            Dear Forge

            I totally agree with you and Im sure many others agree with you too but aren’t brave enough to speak up.

            Think Im done here now- let them have their swearing club.

            Its a shame but it puts normal people off…the references to retards and fuktards all the time was especially awful – offensive and hurtful to people with family members with learning disabilities.

            • Dear Janey,

              While it is my choice to not use a potty mouth for several different reasons, I have received so much help, support, guidance, love, strength, clarity, encouragement and laughter from all of Chump Nation, there is NO WAY I am ever leaving here! If Chump Nation is any kind of ‘club’, it is a ‘Love Club’ all the way!

              In my case, it was when cheater-pants started cheating that these kind of words came into my life on a daily basis. He started using words and gestures he had once condemned & the whore (I do use that word!) uses those words, so for me to not join in was especially defining in MY situation.

              The commentors here have integrity, insight, moral compass, love, courage and so much more to share! I have moved forward exponentially on my healing journey in the few weeks since I found the amazing Chump Nation! (Also, some of the chumps have children with learning disabilities, so I do believe they ALL know there was NO hurtfulness going on! Only love here at Chump Nation!)

              Since this thread was to encourage Nic to rethink her desire to get revenge on the OW, I sure do hope that even the detour into the issue of language has served to show her that the advice & guidance she has gotten here will be the very best for what she is going through, Until I found Chump Lady, I was still floundering with some of the same issues about hurting those who hurt me and so on.

              Much love to Chump Nation!

              Forge on, friends, Forge On!

      • I am assured it is scientifically proven that swearing (and using all the best anglo-saxon!) is excellent for stress relief! 😀

  • YEOWWWWW!!! CL you are ONE KICK-ASS blogger!! Just reading this post makes me want to go out in the world and do some serious kick-ass, self-realizing, live-like-there’s-no tomorrow, making up for lost time. Anyone who has been, or is being manipulated by such reptilian slime as this guy, should take CL’s monumental advice and enjoy exacting retribution. Take no prisoners!!

    CL, I love you!

  • Hey Nic,

    Mr Catfish deserves to know-you might quail at hurting his kids, but Mrs Catfish has already done that. My own cheater, Mr Fab, held that over my head for years, and chumpy me let him, all the while, he was screwing the Downgrade while I worked extra shifts to be able to visit my Dad, who has terminal cancer. And you want to keep a guy like that?

    As for revenge? She gets him, a slow death by wing-nut-the ultimate booby prize, who will probably cost her her job. NOT YOUR PROBLEM.

    You sound like a kickass person. He doesn’t deserve you-he deserves what he has chosen.

    A Downgrade.

    hugs-Meh.

    • So I sent him a note, he replied that his scooby snack of a wife “has been very open with him and that the ‘situation’ seems to have been resolved in September. We are doing well and hope you are too.”. Wtf? Should I tell him that I have 180 pages of emails from oct 2012-aug2013? Or should I just leave him be? I want to do the right thing, but he may want to shove this under the rug. Have I done my due diligence and should I just focus on me? Keep in mind that mr chump is chump #2 – the first was his brother. Eeew. I thinki should just let it be, but thought I should ask this group of face slappers to steer me well. Thanks!

  • Nic,

    I know it’s natural to obsess; my exH had at least 2 OW simultaneously; one I suspected (here in the US) and the other overseas (who I knew nothing about). I hated them both for quite some time – hated them even more than my exH. He had insulted the American OW on many occasions – called her old, “looks like a little boy” (yep, that’s creepy), bitchy…but that didn’t matter. In the end, he picked her to screw around with, and she had/has the trashy character to be part of it. I have seen the Karma bus slam into her family since then, and can only take some comfort in knowing that she will have to live with her lies the rest of her life (she is married with 2 kids).

    The overseas OW – hated her too. But it did fade in time – as I started learning more about what a terrible person exH truly is – he really does suck – and I figured that they deserved each other. My advice would be to let the husband know, so he can make an informed decision about his family’s future – but keep your other revenge fantasies to yourself. Write them down and burn them or throw darts at them – but hold your head high and rebuild your life. Skanky people attract other nasty people; wiser chumps attract quality, compassionate people. The best years of your life are just beginning – you’ve been set free 🙂

    • I hate OW because I think she is greedy and selfish and manipulative she accepted someone elses husband and 3 kids father…I’m guessing she thought she’d get my home too and top of it all she still has her youth. But I have never ever thought she was responsible for what has happened. There is really only one person at fault here!

  • I can say in all honesty that this site has given me more clarity about my own actions, motivations, and behavior — and the behavior of others — than 14 years of therapy did. I am utterly FUCK YEAH about this site. HELLS TO THE FUCKING YES.

  • Amen CL!!

    my asswipe ex tried to tell me his first married OW ho-worker was good looking, not knowing I already knew what she looked like lol! so when I turned around and slammed him about her looks, which is plain jane, very homely with her being a butter face and I am not even going into how she dresses, he had to shut the fuck up. Swine had no idea that I knew, so he was going to play “she was good looking” ploy to get me to be jealous, yeah right, be jealous of that thing lol! heck she is definitely a hillbilly trailer trash and as of this moment, yes she is living in a trailer.

    The other woman is not the enemy, your partner is! She didn’t make any promises to you, its your man who did, so all the fault lies with him, she is just a dumb whore and like CL said, if it wasn’t her it would be some other skank!

    Get rid of him, you deserve better!!

  • More to the point. The thing is, Nic, she’s pathetic. She’s damaged herself. Think of all she’s risking, the lack of moral compass, the sheer disordered thought inherent in her behavior. I come from a disordered FOO, and it took me a very long time to learn what healthy behavior and boundaries are. One thing I still do, when I find myself questioning the conduct of others and my response to it, is I ask — what would a normal person do? By normal, I mean someone with a strong sense of self, healthy boundaries, a clear ethical framework, and a sense of self worth. And then I do what that person would do. I still stumble (and in the past I have fallen hard), but I can tell you with authority that she is a person to be pitied. She is pathetic. She is already destroyed, without your help. And I do think we have a responsibility to each other (i.e., don’t fuck someone else’s husband. DO NOT FUCK HIM. There is no grey area here.) the person who promised to love, honor, cherish and walk through this world with you is him. Be mad at him. She isn’t worth your consideration.

  • I felt the SAME WAY! The OW was what I should really call the “other child”. I’m 44. My X is 46. She’s a 25 yr. old barmaid at our local dive. There were others before her mostly older than me. I hate being like this because I’m not like this, but compared to me these girls pale in comparison. I even just found out about another who, when I saw her pic on FB, freaked me out. She was THAT GROSS. Anyway, it’s hard to not get a little obsessed when these assholes have made US feel so attractive in the past. That’s what narcissists do. They love bomb us then when they have drawn us in to be the closest to them they turn the unworthy feelings about themselves on us. Who they pick has nothing to do with us. Everyday troubles that they can’t handle they take out on us and the AP is all superficial. The dumb kid my X was with would post pics of engagement rings and wedding gowns and babies to her Pinterest account. I went nuts thinking she thinks he’s going to marry her. A married man with a child and obligations is NOT someone to think about marrying. My point is, this won’t be the last time and probably isn’t the first. Listen to Chump Lady when she say, “trust that they suck”.

    • Ahhh…you’ve got a shallow one like me…found ‘happiness’ with someone very young who blows smoke up his ass and thinks he’s Dr. Fab because he spins his story so well. What blows my mind is that I know who he really is and knew he wasn’t this perfect guy he tried to show the world but I loved that I saw the ‘real’ him ( not really, of course-only saw what he showed me) and thought how wonderful it was that we could ‘really be ourselves’. He wasn’t being himself, ever. The kids see this; they say ‘dad is like a different person’, not realising that he doesn’t know who he is so he morphs into the person his current paramour wants him to be.

      This, by the way, means ex will be doing a triathlon in a few months. hahahaha…the man can’t swim and looks like a dazed chicken when he tries. I’d almost love to see him try and do it. She gifted him with an entry to a big triathlon for Christmas. I nearly died laughing because i remember teaching him how to use gym machines. He is NOT a working out kind of guy, although he gives it a go every so often.

      God, it’s hilarious when I hear about this stuff.

      • Nord- just read your reply and it never ceases to blow my mind how all these idiots are the same. Narcissists have no inner psyche. They have no clue who they are and only live for the excitement that a “new” and clueless so-called relationship provides. The kid my X was with thought he was so funny and witty and handsome. Let her attempt ONE DAY living with him while he shows what a cranky, helpless slob he really is. Can’t cook for himself. Won’t clean up anything, EVER. Leaves things to the last second and many other awful qualities I chose to ignore for years. She can have him! Lol! It took to long to see him for what he is, but THANK GOD! Better late than never.

  • Nic, it’s natural to focus on the OW or the narc cheater, but I think that’s another way we ‘protect’ ourselves from having to face reality.

    Each time you find yourself obsessing about her, or him, it can help to ask yourself ‘what am I feeling? What does this thought mean about ME? I can’t believe he was involved w/a mouth-breather? It means you know you’re worth more, and are appalled he couldn’t realize that. I can’t believe he betrayed me? It means you value honesty and try to be honest yourself. She’s not half as attractive as I am? It means you know your value, but he doesn’t.

    You need to put them aside for a bit and ask yourself the hard questions;
    – Do I want to be in a relationship with a man who lied to me and invested in another relationship for at least a year and a half?
    – Do I want to be in a relationship with a man who was emotionally abusive when I found out the truth?
    – Is this man showing genuine remorse, regret and is he taking responsibility for what he did and for repairing it?
    – was the relationship I already had with him in the past good enough to be worth the extremely difficult repair work that needs to be done? Was his character good, did he appreciate what we had, did he invest in the relationship and in keeping it good? DO NOT focus on what the relationship ‘could be’ in future; focus on the reality.

    And mostly, remember that he didn’t NEED to have an affair w/a woman as smart and hot as you – he HAD you the whole you, she was just CAKE. When you’ve got filet mignon with peppercorn sauce, garlic mashed and stir-fried fresh veggies at home, a Twinkie is fine for that away-from-home snack. He never intended the Twinkie to be his whole day’s meals!

    • That’s right! Let the OW have the pile of dog shit! There is no better revenge than letting the OW have the low life cheater! Then while you are enjoying your new life without the scum, she can play the detective and lose sleep. HA! 🙂

      • My ex’s OW has passwords to his email and FB account from what I hear. She’s channeling Hercule Poirot but somehow missed that the ex stopped by a couple of months ago to see if reconciliation was possible. Obviously, she needs to hone her detective skills. Me, on the other hand, am living a enviable life of peace.

        • After the second serious attempt at reconciliation that the ex made while still in a relationship with the OW (plus a couple of other attempts to get into my pants, sound me out …), I was thinking that maybe the OW needed to know. I was assuming that, w/the ex’s usual good taste, he had chosen another chump, and lied to her too. It would have been easy, he met her when he was out of town 4 days a week for work.

          But then he informed me that ‘she understood’ about his having cheated on me, because it was her having an affair that had ended her previous marriage. And that she knew he was married with kids when she started hitting on him (which I actually believe, because he’s never hit on anyone in his life, too lazy and entitled and not confident or socially skilled (just good looking!); his previous girlfriend and I both hit on him too.)

          So I figure she’ll eventually find out about how trustworthy he is, on her own. And she is getting the punishment she deserves – dealing with him.

  • CL said: “Whatever evidence you have, you need to share it with Mr. Catfish, father of four. He deserves to know what his wife has been up to, emotional affair or otherwise. Tell him because he deserves the dignity of the knowing the truth. And tell him because it rains consequences down upon the OW and keeps her on a shorter leash (if her husband wants to reconcile). If her husband dumps her, and she’s off the leash, that’s good to know too.”

    I just want to wholeheartedly agree. TELL MR. CATFISH. Collect any evidence you have, copy away, apologize for being the messenger, and then tell him because it is the right thing to do.

    It may make the OW’s life extremely uncomfortable, and perhaps you can get a teensy revenge-charge out of that knowledge…but that isn’t what it is about, at the end of the day. You tell Mr. Chump because you are Mrs. Chump, and you know better than anyone how it is impossible to make informed decisions about your life and your future if you are unknowingly living a lie. He deserves to know. Be the one who gives him the truth when the person he is supposedly closest to is lying and manipulating him.

    It’s just good karma.

    • I did tell the husbands, and at least in one case the husband decided to turn a blind eye. But I know that he knows and he may do the pick me dance, but he will never respect her the way he mistakenly did while she was screwing my husband for four years! I trust that they both suck. And I did get a degree of satisfaction knowing the the OW’s weren’t “getting away” with it. Now it’s just “meh” under the bridge. These people deserve each other – you, Nic, deserve a hell of a lot more!

  • What’s the point of being a smoking hot hottie if you’re just going to get dumped by your partner?

    Well? Because just maybe your partner sucks, as it turns out, and being awesome helps you in the end, to sidestep the hot mess that the sucky partner an OP make with one another. It helps to confirm in your mind and maybe others’ minds, if that’s your thing, that YOU WERE NOT THE PROBLEM. He sucks. He sucks so badly that he is a bottom-of-the-barrel scraper, that he looks outside his happy family for validation and excitement. He sucks. She sucks, Miss Mouth-Breather–she does. Trust that she does.

    Don’t lose focus of who you are, in order to be obsessed with her. You see, if it hadn’t been her, it would have been some other loser. As I like to say, there’s a loser twat under every rock, if you have the type of partner who would go looking for one.

    Someone will appreciate you. You should appreciate you. Believe it or not, this experience might make you stronger, unless you passively wait for your husband to lead the way to nowhere.

    Put your boots on and walk out of that situation. Find your way. You got this. It happens. Sometimes we pick wrong. Sometimes we get a second chance at another life.

  • Nic,
    If I could post a picture here of the OW and me I would and you all would die. She is the fugliest woman I’ve ever seen and I would say that if she was the OW or not. She has huge crooked teeth, she’s fat, she looks like she cuts her own hair and dyes it with shoe polish, not a stitch of make up and looks like an ugly man.Big black bags under her eyes. Wears long baggy plaid shorts and blouses with tiny flowers on them.
    Eeeeewwwww. That he sticks his dick in her just goes to show you what a sick puppy he is.

    I do know that he needs Viagra with her and he SURE never needed it with me. I found out when I saw the print out from our insurance company. Hahahahaha!!~~

    • Ha! Mine never needed ED meds with me either but got a script for asap when he took up with OW. What is with that??

      [BTW, I did once find and flush his whole $expensive$ (several hundred co-pay dollar worth) hoard of Levitra down the toilet and replaced them with some of his (look alike) anti-histamines. Fucktard was not supposed to be using them anyway due to medical conditions, but some people will literally DIE for “wuv” …or rather “ego kibbles.”]

      • OMG! did you really do that? LMFAO!!!!!! I wonder what he did when he couldn’t get it up with the OW and feeling drowsy? That’s too funny!! you are awesome notyou, bless your heart and you just made my day!! :)))))))))))))))

    • Geez do all the assholes “affair down”? In my case, the OW is around 40 but looks like she’s in her mid-50s. She has fricking platinum, bleach-blonde hair. She fake bakes so much she looks like a piece of leather! I’m very short, 5’2″. My H loves the fact that she’s almost as tall as he is, 6′. But the people who have seen her pictures and her FB page say she looks like white trash, and that she’s been rode hard and put away, lol. She started popping out kids and the ripe old age of 16, so at her age she already has several grandchildren. My H is so blinded by their love..he ignores the fact that the OW was married to a Hispanic..and my H despises them. No offense to any Hispanics here! I am not hot and smokin’ like our gal here today, I have gained weight in our 26 years together..but compared to her, I’m a damn beauty queen! Yet they are sooooo in luuuurrrvvveeee you know!

      • the hypocrisy is amusing.
        My exH always disliked:
        a) folks who code switch (use two langauges in the same sentences); he speaks 6+ languages and thought that was lazy…. OWife and apparently her whole family does that.
        b) stereotypes about men: he was involved in all our wedding planning, changed kids diapers, etc. But, in the end, he is a poster child for the stereotype:
        cheated, hooked up with a women 10.5 years younger, started another family, and moved away from his children

    • Wow! XH filed for divorce and then ordered a bunch of Cialis for “good times” with OW. He never needed “help” in all our years together, so I just assumed he was trying to impress her with his “stamina.” Now, I’m beginning to wonder… LOL!

      • STBXH stopped being interested in sex with me. I searched his gym bag for condoms (didn’t find any after the first month of the affair–a Very Bad Sign), and discovered prostate vitamins. Hmmm….. 😉

    • I learned about this in marriage counseling (during false reconciliation). I’m not sure how it came to be discussed, but I won’t ever forget it:
      Ex was not able to get it up on his very first attempt to sleep with the OW. I commented on how that was a huge sign that what he was doing was wrong. It didn’t stop him from trying again…….he ended up cheating on me for a whole year before I caught him. I don’t know if he used any kind of medication but I know his body was telling him something on that first attempt. What a fucking asshole.

      • Ex told me during our bogus reconciliation that at his first threesome with his two OWs, he was so nervous he couldn’t get it up and took a Viagra. I guess it didn’t occur to him, or maybe it just didn’t bother him, that his dick apparently knew he was doing something wrong, even if his brain didn’t give a fuck. Of course, that same dick had no problem getting hard with hundreds of strange men in gay bathhouses. On second thought, I guess it wasn’t the threesome that bothered his dick, it was the fact that it was with WOMEN.

      • His dick was very afraid to go in there! He needed reinforcements! Sometimes body parts are wiser than the whole (hole?)

  • First of all, I agree with CL that your H has probably just taken his extra-curricular activities underground, as an affair is a highly addictive situation. If he were sincerely remorseful, you would be getting “mea culpas” and “How can I move the earth to make this right?” (Try changing jobs for one thing, Mr. Cake Eater.)…. instead of emotional abuse in the form of gaslighting, projection, and blame shifting.

    BTW, I also agree that you need to fill in “Mr. Catfish.” Sometimes doing what is right is not fun, but the cuckhold husband NEEDS to know. Odds are, her H will tell you he does not believe you and that he trusts his wife. (The OW’s husband in my case did.) Even so, telling ALL will plant a seed of vigilance in him that will grow and flower down the road (as it did in my case). Ripping the lid off the garbage can and watching the cockroaches scurry in the bright sunlight always cleans out a nest of them

    This is all about ego kibbles for your man. It’s time to cut the kibbles completely off. He’ll either man-up or ship out. I call that a win-win situation.

    Your question brought to mind some comments I once read. So I went and found them at http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=326449

    “Honey, they always affair down.” (partial excerpt below)

    “What’s is attractive about the OW is that they are the sickest, the weakest, the most injured of the pack. The insecure WH, wanting to feel strong and powerful, scans the herd for the easiest to kill. The self assured, the strong, the healthy will not do, as those women want nothing to do with a married man. Our wayward husbands, needy and looking for someone to boost his ego, must look for someone beneath them, someone who will look up to him, someone who will make him feel superior, if only temporarily. What better way for an insecure person to feel powerful, and admired, than to pick the least of the bunch?”

  • Please stop trying to fuck them under the table. The only winner in that scenario is him. This is all about him. Take back your power, activate bitch, and stop throwing him a bone.

    You stop thinking about her by thinking about this instead:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX1QgD-Jy18
    It worked for me every time I thought about them in bed.

    You think about her because it takes the edge off of riding the fence about you future. Thinking about her gives you a sense of control. Thinking about your future, your ass husband, and an affair gives a sense of no control. I know because my ex did the same “downward dog” routine, except she had a marginally, seemingly interesting job (I stress “seem”).

    In the end, they are both assholes, which is nothing I aspire to. Neither should you.

  • When you’ve got filet mignon with peppercorn sauce, garlic mashed and stir-fried fresh veggies at home, a Twinkie is fine for that away-from-home snack. He never intended the Twinkie to be his whole day’s meals! Lol, KarenE! Isn’t this true!

    Nic, it’s natural to obsess about OW. I know that I did. Besides being my STBX’s subordinate, she’d come over to our house on a couple of occasions, so she has betrayed my hospitality. However, very early on I realized that the worst thing I could do to byis basically tight with money, but spends impulsively so that he runs out. She has no concept of budget. They will make each other’s lives hell, and in no time, she’ll be cheating on him and he’ll be looking around.

    • CL, this is a double post, and this first post has some bits excised out (I keep hitting the track pad on my laptop!). Could you delete this one?

    • Nic, it’s natural to obsess about OW

      Must be a female thing 🙂

      Most men I have known could care less about keeping up with their ex’s AP or whatever.

      Shudders. Moves on.

      • I’m glad the first 2 OWs were before social media was the norm, so I couldn’t really obsess unless I wanted to spend loads of money on a detective. Nah, I’d rather use the money elsewhere. By the time the third OW rolled around, I didn’t obsess because I knew it didn’t matter one bit. Whether she’s pretty, ugly, poor, rich, whatever, was irrelevant. What was relevant was that I had to get rid of the loser ex immediately.

  • omfg. Submitting that question was the best thing I’ve done in for-fuckin-evah. Thank you, all of you – it makes me tear up to think a bunch of awesome strangers took the time to respond. I have cut and pasted my favorite lines onto a document I can re read. Interestingly, before I read any of this today, I came across an email from Mr. Chump’s account. This guy is totally off the grid, I could not find him for the life of me. Seems her email was down, and she sent a group email from his about 18mos ago. Serendipity, I luv ya. Here’s a bit of background: When dickweed confessed, I made him write to Catfish, saying, the eagle has landed, you’d better tell Mr Chump or my hot mama will. Very soon. I was blind cc’d. It was a bluff, I could not find this guy. She wrote back that she had discussed the sitch w him. This is a family (my in laws) business, so my SiL and MiL were also notified. Yum. Strip mall slut then had to apologize to them and come clean. That all happened, as the atomic shit show that transpired was there for me to watch. I have wanted to find Mr Chump, and my only way was snail mail, and the redneck rash works from home, while he does not. I’m sure she’s vigilant. I know she leaves for a week long “break” – to really look hard at her career with this company and take some time to evaluate – saw that note too, to my MIL, so I was going to time a Mr Chump letter for then. But goddam, I emailed him this morning. Short, sweet, to the point. Again, she may be intercepting, he may not see it, it may no longer be an address he uses. I promised that I would not contact him again if I didn’t hear back. This shit may be ok in their relationship, he may have his head in the sand – she’s the breadwinner. Interesting side note* she married Mr Chump after she left her husband – Mr Chump’s brother. Ex husband=brother in law, merry christmas. This was not her first rodeo. Saw that in a note where she asks my h to keep that secret – ya, way to write it down, I’ve told anybody who doesn’t have impaired hearing (sorry grocery checkout girl, TMI). Secret no more.

    She lent my son a guitar, yesterday I went Pete Townsend on it – it now fits in a grocery bag and is in the trash. It felt so fucking good.

    Anyway: here I am, 6-ish weeks in. I love my husband. I fucking love him, so that’s my block right now. We had 26 years of international adventures, babies, fun, no probs. We are in counseling, he’s done (some of) the work he’s been asked by the counsellor to do. In 5 months I am moving out of this brrrr country (hint, plane not required to return to USA) with my kids. I have made that clear. And I’ll have a lot of work to do to rebuild my life there. And pay health insurance. But I have a support system that rocks. Like me. And I’m gonna knock it out of the park, no question. I am not consciously playing pick me, I told him I am leaving, he knows where we will be. If I, we, the family, matter, he will do what it takes and deal with his shit. I have not told him what I need to make this happen, he needs to do the hard work. Regardless, I’ll be building for me, which makes me excited as hell. I’m excited for my future. I haven’t been able to say that in a long time. And I’ve seen a lawyer – leaving the country with kids could cause a huge problem should he decide to make one. Anyway, I’m tender, be gentle with your responses, bitches, I know I’ve given you a story and excuses with holes you can drive hillbilly RV through. Love you all and thank you so much again for this perfect time-suck.

    • Nic,

      I see progress just from the letter CL posted to this response from you. It’s early, no one expects “Meh” yet. I’m thankful that you were able to find this blog and the advice of (sadly, far too many) experienced chumps to digest, keep you strong and help you keep your awesome mojo.

      I’ve been cheated on twice by men I was in relationships with. Wish this blog existed when it happened the first time. I didn’t do the “pick me,” but it took 6 months to extricate myself from the worst anger and blame-shifting manipulation you could ever imagine. I guess he taught me well in his own way, because when it happened again last summer with someone I’d dated for two years, the second I found a profile on Match, I told him I was done in a heartbeat. Shut of the emotion immediately.

      One other thought… almost 20 years ago I lost a husband (a wonderful one) to cancer, leaving me with 4 young kids to raise. Those first few months, I felt numb, the thought of IT was behind my eyelids before I opened my eyes in the morning; it just never left. He traveled M-F every week, so I existed those days by trying to imagine it was just like before, and I tried to fill the weekends with enough stuff that I didn’t have to sit and have nothing to do but mope. I even bought another house 3 months later, one I could rehab, because I knew it would make me feel good about something (people thought I was nuts, but I still don’t regret it).

      My point is… you are still at the numb stage, it doesn’t make any sense, and never will, and you’re a long way from acceptance that your life is now permanently changed. Cut yourself some slack, try to think with your brain over your emotions, and keep your awesome intact.

      I wish you so well!

    • Wow Nic, that’s great. Sorry you’re going through this but you sound super strong. And of course my response below was made before I saw this post. Although it’s still basically the same. And yes, I do understand the concept of wanting to destroy someone who truly deserves it! Good luck to you and your kids no matter what happens.

    • Glad to hear you are moving and expecting your husband to do the heavy lifting if he wants another chance. One thing that kept me stuck in the pick me dance (even though I didn’t know I was doing that), is the same as yours. I kept coming back to “but I LOVE him”. Finally, I sat down and started writing all the reasons I loved him. I mean ALL, even the little things, I thought that list would be long, I was wrong. What happened was that I couldn’t come up with very many concrete reasons WHY I loved him and most of the ones I did write down ended up with a caveat. For example;

      “When he sees me upset, he holds me in his arms and I feel safe” was followed by “but he hasn’t done that in a long time unless I ask him to and it doesn’t feel the same”

      “We have awesome conversations and enjoy lively debates about issues and it’s fun” was followed by “I can’t remember the last time we actually had an interesting conversation or any at all”

      The last item in the “pro” side of the really short list?

      “At this moment I can’t think of anything else, oh, he does laundry, but he leaves it in the dryer”

      You get the picture. Don’t forget to write the “con” list, that one was pretty long and easier to write. Here’s what I learned from the exercise. There were many good qualities, and ways in which my ex met my needs, and so I continued to love and be loyal to him. Unfortunately, he wasn’t actually exhibiting any of those qualities or meeting any of those needs any longer. AND, he had not been doing so for a very long time. I had the rose colored glasses. No matter how he changed in his behavior toward me, I tended to wipe that stuff out of my mind; I was loving who he HAD been, not who he BECAME, not who he IS. Hell, I’m not a needy type, it took writing that list to realize that the man who used to bring me wild flowers for no reason had disappeared. He hadn’t brought me any flowers at all for years. I could go on and on but I won’t. Make your own list of the good, the beautiful, the bad and the ugly.

      • Dat, I too had to find a way to deal with the fact that I still loved my ex when I kicked him out. And what helped a lot, aside from focussing on what a selfish asshole he really was and how little he deserved that love, was to just accept it. I did still love him, but there was no possible way for us to still be together, after our life together plus his two affairs had showed me who he really was.

        Then it helped to remind myself that love is a feeling, it’s not rational and it doesn’t know what’s best for me. It’s just a powerful feeling. And I can feel it, and still decide what’s best for me to do, based in reality.

        What an irony that these fools lost partners who KNEW them and STILL loved them, to get the thrill of being temporarily with someone who would blow smoke up their asses about how amazingly amazing they are, without actually knowing them. Sigh.

        Fortunately, the love does fade. No Contact is amazing, the best.

        • Karen, and Dat- thank you! This is just what I’ve been going over in my head. Part of me loves him. But our marriage turned into a train wreck, and I finally got away. That tired old phrase of ‘he wasn’t meeting my needs’ couldn’t explain it enough to me. All I knew, after being with him my WHOLE adult life, was that I felt used. Still, he showed me just enough love, and he was funny, and witty, (and we have 3 kids!) so I put up with a lot and stayed.
          Until he fucked the neighbor! And then acted like it was no big deal, and now she’s his friend. Sorry Pal, can’t go for that.
          So after moving far away, I am still left with feelings. And we still text, and occasionally talk, so I feel so confused. But I’m also very, very glad he’s not in my face every day. I don’t know if I’ll ever get to NC! Anyway, reading back through the posts and saw these, I thank you both for articulating something that was buried in my heart.

          • Dear PattyToo,

            Same here on much of what you shared. I know my cheater is at the mild end of the crazy spectrum & it sounds as if yours is, too. (Although mine was NEVER funny or witty)

            Continuing to love them can be confusing, unless you really understand what type of love we are talking about. Even my son, who was cheated on as well and divorced her, is now remarried to someone else, still feels love for his ex. A healthy type of love, however. Not a sick, ‘wish we were back together’ type. But, as in wishing her ‘some peace in her life’ and wishing her ‘a good life’, as she, too, is at the mild end of the crazy spectrum and is trying now to lead a better life.

            My favorite example of this type of love is how God continued to love his people, the ancient nation of Israel, even when they rebelled. But, what did he do to them? He allowed enemy nations to conquer them & in this way they were punished & disciplined. He never let them ‘get away with’ anything, but he expressed that he still loved them with ‘a love to time indefinite’. Eventually, however, he had to cast them off.

            Same with us….just because we still have love (and love is also a verb, actions we display) does not mean we condone their crap or that we continue to stand by them. Sometimes the best way to show love is the so-called ‘tough love.’ After all, it would not be loving to either us or them to continue to be doormats!

            I still have regular contact, as we have a family business that includes our child and we co-own 3 beautiful pets! But, he no longer has that ‘power’ over me. Also, he is always civil and even nice, as he knows I will ignore him & I do go NC if he does not ‘be nice’ with me. Then, he will have to do the work in the business that I normally do! I will no longer put up with all the crap!!

            It may not be necessary for you or I to ever go totally NC. For many posters here, however, they must in order to literally save their lives!

            Therefore, PattyToo, our situation is VERY different than many of our beloved fellow commenters here at CL, but still sickening all the same. My hearts go out to those dealing with the horrifically crazy ones! Hugs & Love to them!

            Forge on, friends………

  • I get why you hate her. She an easy place to put your anger. And wouldn’t destroying her give you some sense of justice?

    Not really. Plus, every minute you spend talking about this OW puts the focus on her, not on you. Puts you in a one-down situation, where it looks like you actually think you’re competition, in the same league (which according to you, isn’t true, since she is a downgrade). Instead? Don’t give her the time of day.

    • Just read your reply post above:

      “She lent my son a guitar, yesterday I went Pete Townsend on it – it now fits in a grocery bag and is in the trash.” Love this!

      You asked us to be gentle……we’ll try….but these things call for stark honesty. Such as…..you say you love him, but it sounds like you just know about the tip of the iceberg. He likely had a physical affair, and who knows if it is even his first? If you knew the whole truth, would you still?

      • I do wonder how I would feel if I knew the whole truth. But I now know I wasn’t crazy, delusional yadda yadda. My body and intuition told me the truth (I have vomited all over the city – subway, so fun!) from the first day I suspected, while he lied. I’ll never doubt myself again, and for that I am grateful. I have told him my idea of perfect vengeance is that they have to be together, in a pit, with a plate of bad burritos. They deserve each other, he says he’s embarrassed and humiliated by her. She sent a very familiar email to him last week, he hasn’t dealt with it. Thats’ the info I sent to Mr Chump – god I hope he got the message from me, not her. Gonna have to answer for that guitar very soon tho (son and h)…. garbage day is tomorrow, I’ll volunteer to take out the trash.

        • I vomited a lot too in the 6 months after. Thankfully it was always at home, except for the one time at the lawyer’s office after signing the divorce paperwork. I have, however, cried all over the city…

          • I was really good at crying in the grocery store, and at work where I would close my door and pretend I was in an important phone call or lock myself in the bathroom.

            • Yes, the crying everywhere, all the time…..for maybe 2 years. If I would have waited for the crying to abate and the swollen eyes to subside before going somewhere, l would never have gone out of my house for at least 2 years…….

              Not as much actual vomiting for me, but dry heaves many times. (Even our son, who was 20 years old and a newlywed, vomited many times over what his Dad had done.) And, could not eat, would choke on food and lost 40 lbs fast, dropped to 100 lbs (it looked like I was a death camp survivor!) I know this is so very common for us chumps. It is another way the cheaters abuse us………..

              Forge on, friends, forge on!

  • He is having an affair with a subordinate, and they are still working together. I don’t believe for one second it was only emotional, and I don’t believe it’s over.

    I understand your hatred and anger of the OW one-thousand percent. I felt that way about the OW in my situation as well. But here’s the thing: it’s your HUSBAND who took those vows to stay faithful to you until death do you part, not her. She’s scum and trash, but she owes you nothing. Your husband, on the other hand, is scum and trash who willfully violated your marriage vows, lied to you (still lying to you, IMHO) and is manipulating the situation for tasty kibbles and cake. HE is the one who deserves your anger and scorn. You are still protecting your heart by blaming the OW instead of him, but once those blinders come away from your eyes, you’ll feel the rage, believe me.

  • CL I read a blogger today who is negative about your point of view. She must not have read all of your writings. It seems as if you are highly suspicious of reconciliations because of the “been there, done that” in your life….but I also feel that you support true remorse if the cheater is totally open, honest and truly sorry. I like your blunt style. You tell chumps exactly what reality is about. That blog took me to another. Can’t remember the name, will paraphrase and hope the person reads this and takes credit. She said a cheater who “gets” what he has done is like the man who is tired of his house so he burns it down. While he is standing there with ashes sifting through his fingers he realizes he has burned all the memories that were in that house. He also burned the memories of the chump and the memories that belonged to their children. I think that is a pretty good description of the murder of a marriage.

    • Well that wasn’t my blog but the burning analogy is completely true. As is the murder analogy. I suppose some people think they can rebuild something from the ashes but I tend to fall into the camp of believing it really is a murder and even if the murderer (somehow) makes amends or peace with what they did he or she still can’t bring that relationship back to life. At best there’s a less angry ghost left.

  • I’m sorry but Tracy is correct in her most likely 100% correct assumption that yes, they’re fucking. Oops, sorry, fucked as you’re suppose to believe him when he says it’s all in the past now.
    I haven’t read any of the comments yet but here are my 2 cents:

    Very simple test, my dear, and so ancient it was around when I was in HS, and I’m in my mid 30s now…. Text HER from HIS phone asking questions which would make her confirm/ deny physical affair. Do this impromptu, without warning, without discussing it with pathetic loser hubby first (for obvious reasons.) * My personal favorite line is “Ive got AIDS, OW.!” Her response should tell you all you need to know.
    Btw, emotional affairs are just as devastating emotionally. My cheating ex would make up stories about me which made me look like a complete psycho, short of being committed. It was all lies and apparently something fairly common during emotional affairs. So is gas lighting. I was psychotic for suspecting anything, I was the needy one when I struggled with anxiety, brought on by my suspicions. Quite ironic, actually.

    Emotional affairs require much much more involvement than the other kind.
    The level of deception is much greater and paychological trauma to us much greater.
    It is worst betrayal to me than anything physical.
    Lastly, OW’s husband MUST know about this. I would confront this in person and also, without warning.

    • Agreed. Do you have access to the phone bill? If he’s still texting/calling her, then he’s still in the affair. Period.

      • I have the phone bills, I even have a phone of his he doesn’t know I have. I get all the emails etc. Im in the process of getting the credit card bill. Heard from mr chump today. He said “wendy walmart has been quite open with me and continues to be throughout this. I believe the issues were resolved in the fall. We are good and I hope you are too.” not sure if he wrote that or she did. From what Ive been told, he’s pretty mellow and head in the sand kind of guy, avoids confrontation. She’s the breadwinner. I wanted to comment about cake: Where I live, a mangiacake is someone who is not italian or eastern european born or first generation. Obviously, it means cake eater in italian. I think it has to do with the fact that non europeans always bought their pastries at a store instead of getting up at 2am to roll homemade strudel before work like areal woman dammit. As an immigrant’s kid, when you’d get engaged, your family friends would ask “is he a mangiacake”, or did you stay within the tribe. I had a Polish girl, really young, 22, ask me if my husband was a mangiacake the other day. My husband IS a fucking mangiacake.

  • Nic~ “You’re obsessed with the Catfish because in your gut you don’t trust a damn word he says. She’s a threat. We’re primal animals — we can sense a threat.” This is exactly the truth of it. You may be better than she is but your gut is SCREAMING at you that she’s still a threat because your husband still has that door open. You CAN’T TRUST HIM. Is that a relationship you want to have?

    There is only one woman that I actually knew who my husband flirted with. (The rest was a lot of hookups and anonymous sex so at least I never had to put a face on those people.) This woman was about as trashy and stupid as a person could get. I am tall, slender, intelligent and have often been asked if I model. I Had a great career. This woman worked at Value Village as a career. Blah blah blah etc etc etc. The point is I never in a million years would be have been threatened by someone like her but when I caught my husband flirting by text and her outright trying to worm her way into a relationship with him it made me pissed…and super insecure. It wasn’t about what she “had” or “didn’t have”. It’s because he wouldn’t draw the line. When our spouse does that there’s nothing we can do. It will never be about the OW or OM because the ability to make us feel secure in the fidelity of our marriage lies solely with our partner.

    This is not to say we can’t hate or be angry with the OW or OM. They are piece of shit for sure.

  • “It says she’s morally retarded.”

    Besides being a mother to an autistic daughter with a cognitive impairment, I’m a special education attorney. I can say with upmost certainty that all of the people I know who are mentally retarded are infinitely better people than the woman (and man) described in this letter.

    I’m not being PC ~ I loathe using the R-word this way because its so very unfair and so inaccurate. It is completely inappropriate to use this word to compare such deliberately immoral people with people who are, in every possible way, so much more evolved.

    Swear all you want, everyone. But please be accurate in your language.

    The OW is a skank, a whore, and morally corrupt. She is one totally fucked up person.

      • I’m tired of everyone wanting to be politically correct, so they don’t offend someone. You know what I find offensive? Not being able to freely offend someone.

        • Heartbroken…..No Kidding. I work in Disability and Support Services as a counselor and I’m not offended by ANYTHING here. Can’t there be a place where we can say whatever the hell we want without being scolded by someone we ‘offend?’
          No one means anything derogatory…. we’re just sayin’

        • I agree. To use the word retard and be automatically accused of discrimination is to assume that I am ignorant enough or morally deficient enough to actually treat someone with special needs badly. When it’s more important to watch the words we use than our behavior the whole point of political correctness is dumb as hell.

          Furthermore, someone was stating up above that it’s discriminatory to talk about being morally superior to someone who is trashy. Ok, wait. Isn’t this site about being morally superior to a type of person with certain character traits? Trashy or classy, a cheater is still a cheater. But I reserve the right to not appreciate trashiness regardless of whether or not it’s trying to get my Fiance/Husband into bed.

        • Obviously you don’t have a mentally impaired child heartbroken

          Because if you did you would have empathy for the pain caused when the word retard is used to insult and belittle.

          • You’re correct, I don’t have a child with special needs so you may be onto something. However, I’m also an empath and far from narcissist so you’re incorrect about that. I’m one of those who get annoyed by political correctness. Or the damn peanut allergies. Enough already.

            • Gio February 12, 2014 at 5:18 pm

              Heartbroken…..No Kidding. I work in Disability and Support Services as a counselor and I’m not offended by ANYTHING here. Can’t there be a place where we can say whatever the hell we want without being scolded by someone we ‘offend?’
              No one means anything derogatory…. we’re just sayin’
              ______________________________________

              Its OK to insult people who can defend themselves but using the word retard in any of its forms is very hurtful to mothers with learning disability children.

      • I don’t like to be censored. I have found this site to be a safe haven for me. I can tell my story without worry of being judged. I use foul language – a lot. I use the term fucktard – a lot. One of these days, I may use the term “morally retarded” in one of my posts, if I feel it is the right term to use. If I say something totally inappropriate, I don’t mind if CL deletes my post. Its her site. But if I have to worry about what I say and how I say it, as to not offend anyone on here, then this site becomes useless to me and I really need this site.

        • Retarded means a delay or suspension in development in a given area. It is a useful adjective. Mentally retarded means a lack of mental development. Morally retarded means a lack of moral development. When used as an adjective to modify some other noun, I do not see why it is taken as a putdown of those with cognitive deficits. My autistic nephew is one of the great loves of my life. In my opinion, the phrase “morally retarded” does not reflect upon him or his worth in any way, and is not offensive to me at all. His morals are impeccable!

          My two cents.

          • I seriously also believe NO one here would ever dream of calling someone with “cognitive deficits” retarded. Language evolves. Gay used to mean happy once.

          • YOu wrote what I was about to write. That word has various uses that have nothing to do with the mental development of a person.

            Also, fucktard is a word I adore.

        • I AGREE, SO TIRED OF POLITICAL CORRECTNESS! I liked it when people were free to be jerks, fools, or whatever or whomever they were or wanted to be. This is (was) a great freedom living in the USA & one of the reasons so many want to come here. I don’t think there is such a thing as a an insensitive, cold Chump. One becomes a Chump by projecting their goodness into others where it does not exist!

    • Touched a nerve, I guess.

      The price of free speech is being on the unpopular side of an argument. I gather that I’m on the unpopular side of this one (at least here). I think I’m in good company, so I’ll keep pointing out my view.

      Getting angry at someone for speaking up about this seems over-rated ~ and to me rather proves my point. When used in the context here, the term “retarded” or “retard” is clearly meant to be insulting. It’s not meant to be descriptive. And the reason its an insult is because being a “tard” is not cool. Its not something nice to be. I’m glad at least that there’s some agreement that its insulting to call a person who *has* cognitive problems a retard. That’s a start, and I’m glad we all agree on that.

      But, if in the end, being “retarded” or a “retard” or a “[fill-in-the-blank]tard” was a compliment, I think it wouldn’t get so much use. Its a slur.

      If you don’t believe me, read this: http://www.r-word.org

      Peace everyone ~

      • Using the word retard is discriminatory hostile and offensive.

        I have a child with severe learning disabilities so Im here to tell you it is extremely hurtful to hear this word (retard) used so lightly as an insult and slur.

        Im sure if you had a child or a loved family member with a learning disability you would not be so flippant.

        If you use that word (or a variation of it) you are devaluing mentally disabled people.

    • I agree with this – I’m not a PC policeperson either, but I think the R word is like the N word and negatively identifies mentally disabled people with the a-holes you’re referring to. It would be like saying they’re moral “N’s” – still would be racist.

  • “Oh sure. I have my newly patented ray gun right here. It zaps unrepentant cheaters with a beam of neutralizing ions, freshens and deodorizes too!”

    I beg to differ…CL, you ARE the ray gun! Thank you so much for releasing a barrage of laser beams at these creeps!

  • He told you he liked that she was in great shape, but it was an “emotional affair”? Unless this guy gets teary-eyed at Ab-Roller commercials, I’d say that he’s fucking with you.

  • So here’s the thing. Married for twenty years, three kids together, dating of and on for five years before we wed. And at 46 he announced one morning that he wanted a divorce. It was like watching a train wreck and the two years that preceded this were full of uncharacteristic behavior. I knew later it was Typical cheater stuff. What I like about, No, What I LOVE about this site is that CL is so straight forwardly HONEST. Cheaters suck. Breaking marriage vows is an intentional CHOICE. Cheaters mean to HARM those who LOVE them. Cheaters SABOTAGE their relationships. They SABOTAGE the FAMILY. They RUIN all their relationships. (One would like to believe their children matter, but time will tell.) So here’s the thing why believe those euphimisms? Cheaters are Fucked. Up. Once you recognize that TRUTH you understand there is only one choice to make. We all deserve to have people in our lives who are truthful and respectful of us. And all those character traits our children are learning at school. That’s what we want for them too.

  • I don’t think looks or socio-economic background have anything much to do with this. Both red herrings which are distracting Nic from the problem in hand – which is her errant husband.

    Who cares whether the other woman is younger, older, prettier, uglier, poorer or richer. IT DOESN’T MATTER, she is just faecal matter in the pond of life (we’re big into faecal matter in the UK at the moment, as all our flooded land is full of the stuff, but the press are being very polite & not calling it shit).

    The thing in trouble is Nic’s marriage & that marriage is to her husband, not the OW. Nic redirect your anger towards him. Be obsessed with him, not her. Don’t stand on the fence – make up your mind if you want to stay with this entitled liar. Ask yourself if he is truly sorry for deceiving you, putting your health at risk (do you think he slept with her using condoms?), does he want to really make amends and work hard to be a good husband? Is his behaviour going to change so he can evidence how much he loves you and wants to be with you to make this work?

    If the answer to those questions is “Ummm, I’m not sure” or “Ummm, I need a bit more time” or “No” – then that gives you a fairly clear steer on how committed he is to you.

    • “Who cares whether the other woman is younger, older, prettier, uglier, poorer or richer. IT DOESN’T MATTER…”

      True. Plus, comparing yourself to the OW is always a no-win.
      If she’s prettier? You feel bad and then obsess about what she has that you don’t.
      If she’s fugly? Then you feel bad and wonder why the hell he traded down to such lows. Either way, it sucks! Plus, it avoids the main point, which is that your spouse should have not cheated with *anyone*, pretty or otherwise, and it is his betrayal that makes you feel like shit, not some random, replaceable AP.

  • Yes, I’ve tried redirecting the anger today, even as practice, and it feels good. Mr chump got the email, but trailer tits answered it. She said her h forwarded it to her. Wha…..? She clearly intercepted. I told him that his lovely was not behaving very professionally in her correspondence. She answered me that she will take extra care to keep it professional from now on. Whatevs. I told h since he doesn’t seem to want to do the work it takes for ths marriage, I’ll take the wheel, wimp. Looks like ow is driving too. I have no intention of waging a war of lies with her, because you can’t argue with stupid. But I feel like I’ve made changes that are good for me, motherfuckers. And I will not contact mr chump again. It felt good until she replied, then getting an email from her felt gross and I needed a shower. Baby steps.

    • Yeah, the “we’re doing good, hope you are too” sounds like something OW would write. If she’s intercepting his mail and email, I think you’ve done enough. Focus on you.

      OTOH, does Mr. Chump have a job? A linked in account? Maybe you could send the 1,000 messages to him there.

      Whatever the case, OW doesn’t sound like she’s going away. As she works for your H’s family business, there is an implied threat. Keep me around or harassment lawsuit.

      • totally agree about the lawsuit. fingers crossed, she may quit next week. Mr Chump is off the grid. Teacher, luddite from what I can tell. I’ve done what I could I guess, thanks for the feedback. Keep on keeping’ on, this site rocks. Love you guys.

  • My father cheated on my Mother. My Mother was a crazy alcoholic, while my Dad was a functional alcoholic. He decided to marry his affair partner…and you guessed it, another crazy alcoholic.
    My Mother was my job by myself as a teen 13-15 years old, to manage her craziness by myself. (Dad left to be with OW, brother went away to school) There was a point at which she said to me (I guess I was about 15-16) “Either you quit seeing & talking to your Father or I want nothing to do with You.” I thought about it for about 15 seconds & then said “I choose him because he is not making me choose.” And my already fractured relationship became a broken one. She held it against me for the rest of her life. (Actually, she died 2 years ago today, Valentine’s Day.) I don’t know if this helps anyone, but just in case. I knew my Dad was wrong & that he should have not had the affair. My Mother did not see what I saw, which was that he was miserable & not having the great life she envisioned. I definitely felt it was very unfair for me to be put in this position.

    • That’s extreme to make that kind of ultimatum to a child. But I wonder, would you be more open to it if she wasn’t a crazy alcoholic?

      • Of course I would have been more open if she hadn’t been a crazy alcoholic! I needed a halfway sane adult in my life. My Mom had blamed me for the divorce (I was 11) and a good kid & no matter what I gave up for her it was never enough. But I knew my Mom got the short end of the stick. At the time, I had dropped 30 lbs living alone with her and felt I was having to choose Myself before it was too late. I believe I would have been in my Mom’s court (side) because she did not cheat or abandon. But I wanted to say that from the child’s perspective, they (the children) did not ask for any of this, and are sometimes fed up with all the responsibility that can come from the adults lives falling apart. They long for times when things were easier & think fixes for adult problems should not be so complex. For me as a child it sounded very selfish for her to say/ask that. I already had my plate full with all the insanity, lack of support and caring, puberty and high school and worrying about her. Kids don’t want to be put in this position!! It felt wrong to me. CL has it right when she says to be as grown up as you can be, don’t get sucked into the drama or gossip, etc. Your kids aren’t stupid and they WILL figure it out. (Even if they have a relationship with their other parent.) Something you could say would be letting them know you are “short” or “stressed” because of things happening between you & their Dad/Mom, because they will see that they are too having to put up with much more hurt and chaos in their lives because you are affected & so are others around you. My Mom wanted to MAKE me hate my Dad & I wanted to make my own judgments. I am speaking from the perspective of a child. Now that I understand the vows, the investment, the childishness & have an adult view, it is completely different-that is for sure. Cheating is never a resolution to anything, only a new plethora of problems and incredible pain. I guess what I am saying is even if kids are smart & already teenagers, don’t expect adult understanding from them.

    • I’m sorry you went through that and that your mother put you in that position. I don’t think, though, that your mother’s crazy excuses your father’s cheating. If he was unhappy he of course could have just left.

      • Boy do I agree with that!! And he abandoned us to do so! I lost a great amount of respect for my father I never regained. I had to accept what he was, less than I would have hoped for to be sure. NO ONE needs to make such a selfish, heartless and disrespectful choice as cheating. I guess my point is kids can’t or don’t have an adult perspective. It would be great if they could because we could really use their understanding when we are at an all time low. I did not have it & was mature for my age having to fend for myself. (and I wasn’t that young, 15 or 16)

  • Early in my d-day discovery I really really wanted to crush her with her damning porn site emails because she hides under the banner of God; a real spouting Jesus saves hypocrite church lady send porn links to her lover, my spouse, and telling him how it made her come. All of her FaceTime masterbation with the asshat so they could get off realtime and remotely…..all that shit.

    During my obsessive “who the fuck is this clown” phase, I came to understand that she IS the cheapened, fatter, unintelligent, dependent version of ME. What threw me off in digging into her FB profile were the pictures I took from vacations with the asshat that she had on her Pinterest account. Fucking fucking weird. Then I noticed via her timeline all the things that I have always been involved in, she actively began pursuing. Wacko.

    No, I will Not give her any satisfaction of me noticing her lame attempts to be ME. She can have asshat, if they decide to reconnect. I will keep the post nup. I will retain my power over that clown.

    • With that being stated, I don’t feel very compelled to contact mr. Clown to update him about the clown’s heavy travel schedule with my asshat. I don’t know….it feels like I would be feeding her ego. Like I give a flying fuck about her life. She sure as he’ll didn’t care about mine or asshat’s 4 kids.

      She has no children and told asshat that mr. Clown knows all about her affairs. Really? All this transparency from ANOTHER chronic liar And serial cheater. When I put it that way to asshat, and that the chances of mr. Clown really knowing about the sexcapades were ZERO and that maybe he should know, that did freak out asshat.

      I’ll keep that ticket for later use. Right now it’s more important to direct energy to ME and not the clown/mr. Clown or the asshat.

      By the way, I really do not fucking swear like this IRL. But I’m angry at being used and manipulated….a fucking chump.

  • I did that. I was seven months pregnant with our third daughter when my now exhusband left open his email. Just clicking on one revealed tysts in the hotel room. Clicking on more revealed a year long affair with a married woman. Now she worked at the university. She did all of their emails to him from her work email (which is public record, might I add). Since she and he were both married, they took their affair to her office after hours and on weekends. They took sex pictures and videos and I had it all on the email. And yes I told her chump husband. And yes I gave her boss all the sex videos and pictures and emails and she was fired from her nice cushy job. and it felt GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She lost her job and her kids to her now ex husband. It’s been six years and she’s got a minimum wage reception job and pays child support to her happy remarried ex and my ex dumped her after the affair became public. She recently wrote an ireport on CNN. She isn’t having very good luck at internet dating. Do I feel bad? No I don’t. It felt empowering to mail off that public records request and expose their bad behavior to her boss. I couldn’t do it to my ex husband ‘s boss because he didn’t have one. He was the stay at home parent because I had to work two jobs to support our family.

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