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Dear Chump Lady, I think my story is unique…

Dear Chumps,

You’d think I’d learn my lesson from the last time I published a letter from an OW, but in my defense, I assigned this to Chris before I stirred up that particular shit storm. So if you can’t bear to read another OW letter, skip today. Although then you would be missing out on Chris’s lovely smack down… and that would be a shame. 

Tracy/CL

______

Dear Chump Lady,

I think I might have an unique story that is more like a movie and need your thoughts.

I met a gentleman a few years back on a dating website and was involved with him in some capacity for 3 years. I recently found out that he got married a month prior to me finding out (found out on my own). The weekend he was texting me he told me he was going away with his children and was texting me on his wedding day/night. I know now he met and started dating this women a few months after he met me. I was not intimate with him for about 10 months (mostly dirty texts), after I found out we became intimate again because he told me he wasn’t really happy and almost called the wedding off a month before. They went on their honeymoon 2 months after their wedding and he texted me a week into it (the honeymoon was after I found out). He also admitted that he had more feelings for me than he thought and realized it now that he was married a few times and then during another conversation said made him feel special and it was addicting. I don’t think it was about the sex otherwise he wouldn’t have acted on the dirty texts for 10 months. As it stands right now, This was all exposed via Facebook a month and a half ago and is a mess. When she found out he called and said he couldn’t talk to me and that he was going to be branded a cheated and have 2 divorces under his belt. A friend of mine, unbeknownst to me sent his wife a letter telling her everything) and I haven’t talked to him in a month.

I think she might be taking him back and I can’t phantom anyone taking someone back after what she knows. She seen texts from him that said he fantasized about me on their wedding night and all the time , texts that said I was the best and texts that said I was nicer and cuter. I need to move on and I can’t . I’m not heartbroken just pissed. Is she stupid, desperate? I do feel badly for her because if she stays she looks like a fool in front of her friends and family and if she stays she will too since they got married in October. I can see maybe taking him back after cheating, but the entire relationship was based on a lie. I would never take him back after this.

Sincerely,

confused

Dear Confused:

Here’s where I’m confused:
a) “The entire relationship was based on a lie.”
b) “I need to move on but I can’t.”
c) “I’m not heartbroken just pissed.”
d) “If she stays she looks like a fool in front of her friends and family…”
e) “I would never take him back after this.”

Are you speaking for yourself or that idiot’s wife? Whose relationship are you describing, exactly? This situation is unique because you’re both the Other Woman. If your timeline is factually correct, he started dating you first, started dating her a few months after, put a ring on her finger, kept sexting you, and kept sleeping with you after he married her. But since you’re in No Contact you’re afraid he might have gone back to her.

There’s fuckupedness and then there’s soap operatic fuckupedness. She’s the Other Woman who started dating another woman’s boyfriend, whom she eventually became engaged to, and after the wedding you started sleeping with another man’s wife. It’s a shame soaps are no longer relevant because this would be a dynamite storyline.
So I’m guessing you want your (ex-)boyfriend’s thoughts and actions translated into coherent English? Surely!

1) He’s a cheating jackass.
2) He’s been lying to both of you from Day One because he likes CAKE.
3) He became an engaged to another woman during your relationship because he likes CAKE.
4) He kept sexting you whilst engaged to another woman because he likes CAKE.
5) He married another woman during your relationship because he likes CAKE.
6) He sexted you on his wedding day and during his honeymoon because he likes CAKE.
7) He kept being intimate with you after his wedding because he likes CAKE.
8) He told you you made him feel special and that “it” was addicting because he likes CAKE.
And finally…
9) He stopped talking to you because his CAKE supply was threatened. If his wife took him back, it’s only because she’s the bigger Chump. Cheaters put more values on kibbles and spackle than they do dress sizes and looks.

As you can see, it’s not really a movie but an SNL sketch with the same punchline repeated about 10 times. Now let’s deal in truth: You don’t get first dibs on the douche simply because you were his girlfriend first. Granted, my heart goes out to you because you too were lied to. Sadly, this is how Chumps are born and boy did you come screaming out of the Chump Birth Canal!

I’m sorry, Confused, but the moment you found out he had been lying to you for practically the entire relationship, and after you found he married another woman, that’s the moment when all bets should’ve been off. But instead he reached out from the garbage juice-soaked dumpster from whence he came and pulled you right in, as you deliberately decided to do the no-pants dance with a married man. Yes, that makes you complicit in his mindfuckery, because you were now sleeping a man you knew to be married to someone else. Doesn’t matter who met whom first. Morally, he might’ve been yours before he was hers, but legally you became the mistress.

Now, that’s enough speculation and gossip. Whether she’s taken him back, divorcing him, or calling Cousin Vito to show up at the house with baseball bats and blowtorches, that’s none of your concern. Whoever met him first, whoever slept with him first, and whoever found out about the other first, legally he’s her problem. Think of her as your co-passenger on the Plane Ride To Nowhere. Only you’re not married to this twit. That, in turn, frees you to strap on the parachute and do a mad 50 yd. dash for the Emergency Exit.

Whether she files for divorce, thereby strapping on her parachute and following suit, is none of your concern. Bottom line is you both found out about each other the hard way and the least you both could do is not associate with each other. Plus, how do you even know for certain that she only met him after your relationship started? That fucker’s lied about everything else! And how do you know there weren’t others?

Okay, for real now, that’s enough speculation. This is turning into a JFK Assassination Conspiracy. You get so caught up in the scenery that you lose sight of the two bottom lines:
a) You were dating a lying, scheming cheater.
b) You knowingly and deliberately switched places with his wife and became the Other Woman.

The “b” part is really key, Confused, because it’s what separates the Innocents from the Co-Conspirators. It’s not a judgment. It’s just the facts. You found out he had been lying to you the entire time, you found that he married another woman, you believed his bullshit about being unhappy (translation: “Feed me cake and kibbles! Pronto!”), then you made the deliberate choice to be “intimate” with a married man with the blinders off.

Am I believe that you would’ve already cut him out of your life had he not pulled the trigger first? You sure didn’t seem to be in any rush to tell him to go fuck himself once you found out the truth. Instead, you seem to be masking the hurt you feel about being cast off as the Other Woman, and you’re replying in kind by taking it out on the wife. Perhaps you feel you deserved more, since he was technically your boyfriend first; your letter all but implies: “She’s the fool! Not me! He’s obsessed with me!”

Is that why, according to you, you “can’t” move on? You feel like you should get preferential treatment since he was your boyfriend first? What exactly do you think you deserve? To be lied to again? To go from The One to the Husband’s sidepiece virtually overnight? Is that a comfortable place for you? Is that the kind of relationship you think you deserve? You say the husband’s actions have exposed him as a cheater and have exposed her as a fool. Well, what do you think your actions say about you?

You’re wondering out loud how any woman could be intimate with a man who’s such a lying shit? Well, she’s probably the wondering the same thing about you! Whatever you think about her lack of character and integrity, she probably thinks the same about you in spades.
But do you not realize that this is exactly where that idiot wants both of you? You’re obsessed with what she’s doing, while she’s probably at home asking her husband 50 Questions and getting 50 Falsehoods in response. You’re obsessing over her, she’s obsessing over you, and practically all of the focus (and righteous anger) is taken off the two-timing bastard who lied to both of your faces in the first place and placed on the Warring Women.

Also, I know it’s impolite to ask a lady her age, so I’m going to refrain from doing so. Let me just say instead that unless you’re between 12-17, you’re way too old to be using chickenshit justifications like: “He thinks I’m nicer and cuter!”

Sadly, this isn’t a movie. This is real life, and you were both lied to and fucked over. She came up with the shorter end of the stick because now she’s legally stuck with him until she extends the time, effort and money to do something about it. You actually got off relatively scot-free, so accept this is a Gift From The Universe and cut your losses. Stop rationalizing and speculating on his behavior. That’s a Chump trap of fuckupedness. Besides, there’s nothing to speculate on. He’s a cheater on a grand scale, and he’s going to be where the Cake is. Assuming she did take him back, once this “scandal” blows over he’ll either be hitting you back up or moving on to the next unsuspecting woman.

You don’t get to be that woman anymore. You lost your Blissfully Ignorant privileges the moment you found out that your relationship was also based on a lie. You may think she’s stupid and desperate, but the choices you made after you learned the truth didn’t exactly cast you in best light either. I would highly suggest you extract yourself from this sordid cast of characters lest you do something doubly stupid and doubly desperate, such as even thinking about contacting him again or answering any of his texts should he come sniffing back around.

Take this as a lesson learned and in the future adjust your picker to Men Of Character. Not cheating assholes who carry on an entire relationship, engagement, marriage AND honeymoon practically right in front of your face. How were you not thoroughly disgusted once all of this came out? What part of you felt like you deserved to be subjected to even another second of this mindfuckery? Did you think you were special simply because he had been married 5 minutes and he was already bored of the woman he cheated on you with and married behind your back?

You know better. It’s time to do better. There’s no sense in contacting the wife because she probably already knows everything. And there’s no sense in wondering her next move. Leave her in peace and concentrate on your next move. Your next decision should be to cut all ties with this man and not look back.

Neither you nor his wife signed up to be the Other Woman, yet once you learned the truth you inadvertently signed the Other Woman Guestbook in big, huge fucking letters. You owe yourself better than to let yourself be dragged to such a nauseating level of character.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Great job Chris! One thing – I don’t think LW and jerkface were ever officially boyfriend/girlfriend.

    “I met a gentleman a few years back on a dating website and was involved with him in some capacity for 3 years.”

    “Involved in some capacity” sounds like they were hooking up, but never actually an item.

    • ““Involved in some capacity” sounds like they were hooking up, but never actually an item.”

      Yep. That is it. OW just sounds bitter because she was his beck and call side piece and then he went off and married another- then threw her under the bus at the first sign of trouble.

      Nothing says “you are a piece of ass” like a wedding to another while you’re “dating”.

      • We were actually dating, but then just friends. I am not innocent in all this and I do feel really bad. I know I was wrong. Now that there has been No contact I see the bigger picture and see how everything he said was a lie. I know thank my lucky stars that I am not the one married to him.

        • Are you the letter writer?

          If so, a few things to think about.

          You say you were dating, and then “just friends”. False. If you were truly just friends, then you would have been invited to the wedding and been happy for him and his new wife and not having sex with him after his marriage.

          If you felt bad for your behavior, then you would do the right thing and fully disappear from his life. No asking around, FB stalking, etc. No wondering why or if his wife is staying, etc. It is none of your concern. And if you really feel bad, then do so and put this whole episode behind you by practicing MENTAL and PHYSICAL no contact.

          • I am moving on. I have been no contact for a few months and have blocked his number from my phone. I have also cancelled my Facebook account so he or she can’t contact me. Whatever she decides to do is not my concern, but I genuinely do feel bad for her.

            • Ummmm. But you are not moving on.

              How do I know that? Because I just read the letter you wrote to Chumplady.

              Good that you are practicing physical no contact by blocking him. But now you need to practice mental no contact. That means not writing hand wringing letters to Chumplady and wondering in said letter about why his wife would take him back. Thoughts like that leave you open to him if he decides to contact you again.

              PS I noticed you didn’t touch my Just friends comment.

              • I sent this letter a few weeks ago. As for just friends comment. You are right. I am not asking for empathy. I was wrong. I feel badly and guilty. It was more of I don’t get how someone can do this to 2 people he claimed to care about. Moving on mentally is hard, but I’m trying.

            • No you don’t feel bad for her. You’d like to look down on her but you can’t because deep down in your heart you feel dumb for wasting 3 years on a cheat.

              After his wife found his honeymoon text, I assure you he told her he just text you those things to get into your panties. Don’t believe me watch “Jerry Springer.” Same bullshit 5 days a week. The stories don’t change and that is the reason soap operas went out of fashion because these shows display the real bozos 7 days a week.

              • No, I do feel badly for her. I made a mistake by believing his lies (he wasn’t happy, almost calling off wedding etc).

        • Please note that the person posting here is NOT me– the Chump MovingOn who does not sleep with people who are married, no matter what the situation. I divorced my ex and am doing what my username implies (and that, of course, involves not getting into suspicious relationships with cake eaters). 🙂

      • yep, my ex was fucking a married ho-worker while chasing after me for months, relentlessly… we started to date, couple of months into our dating she found out about me and did the pick me dance relentlessly, with lot of time spent on her knees in cars (I was the only one in the dark) then he proposed to me on his knees, we engaged year and half later, she found out and still continued to fuck him but was sooooooo upset about the engagement! Yeah she was a piece of ass and she got used until he moved on to the next one, I was still in the dark.. He knew I wouldn’t do the pick me dance and I would’ve let her have the POS, but its so unbelievable that some women are so clueless!

    • ‘Confused’ called the scumbag a ‘gentleman’…….Gentleman?! Are you serious?! He does NOT fit the description of ‘gentleman’!! THAT is a designation that is earned by living a truthful and loyal life, a life full of integrity, a life of courage, character & conscience.

      THAT right there tells you how confused ‘Confused’ is on the concept! A male who is a true gentleman does NOT lie, cheat, deceive and so on. Her ‘picker’ and moral compass are WAY off!

      And, there are children in his life? hmmmmm…..Yeah, good ‘ole “Peyton Place” crap going on. Sorry, Confused, but your story is NOT unique! Get some help….You need it badly…..

      Awesome response, Chris! Just awesome….

      Forge On, friends…….

  • OMG
    Is this for real?
    Awesome reply/post Chris.
    Confused(?) I’m sorry but as soon as you became aware of the marriage, it was time to move on. But YOU did not!!
    Bellzero

  • My ex pushed for the wedding (‘set the date, set the date’) – and gave a very moving speech at the wedding about how wonderful I was, and how lucky he was to have found me. Phone records show he started his affair less than a month after we got back from honeymoon! I hadn’t a clue – he told me daily that he’d never been so happy, I was the only woman for him, he felt like he’d won the lottery with me. When I eventually found out about the affair (3+years after wedding) and after I’d done the detective work showing the affair to be 18 months of the first 2 years of our marriage, in a fine display of disordered thinking, he told me he’d pursued her because ‘she was too self-confident’ and he wanted to teach her a lesson (whatever lesson that was meant to be)!

    I purposely haven’t addressed this to you (as in Dear Confused) because the only thing you are confused about is how you turned around and the prince had turned into a toad. I totally agree with Chris, why on earth are you believing a single word this toad is telling you? He played you and you know he has no difficulty in playing women – how do you really know that his wife didn’t exist in his life before you? How do you know she wasn’t believing his slimy toad words? How do you know he isn’t telling his wife that she’s ‘nicer and cuter’! He couldn’t do the decent thing if his life depended on it, but you can, and the decent thing is to get the hell out of that marriage and STOP blaming his wife. She’s probably still shell-shocked that she kissed a ‘prince’ and married a toad -same mindfucked as you except worse so because he stood there in front of their friends and family, God and the Law, promising an integrity he couldn’t even spell let alone aspire to.

    Bin this shit, ‘Not Really Confused,But Wanting To Trade This Toad In For The Prince I Thought I Had’.

    Jayne

    Jayne

  • Confused is a way more desperate, pathetic loser than the wife. Seriously, Confused? When someone marries someone else, that’s kind of a hint that they don’t like you better. When someone dumps you and doesn’t talk to you for a month, that’s another hint they don’t like you better. Dude was USING you, and you let him. Have some self respect, please, and quit settling for the dregs of someone else’s relationship/ marriage.

    • She’s doing the classic ‘listening to his words, not watching his actions’. He can say he likes her better all he wants but he didn’t marry her. And I wonder how old all of them are. If this is his second marriage then it stands to reason he’s not a youngster (although who knows). And her words are those of a teeny bopper who spends hours pouring over texts and reading them like tea leaves. My ex’s final OW used to do this (told my kid – how romantic!) but honestly, if you’re an adult you don’t sit around and try to find meaning in bullshit. The guy is playing her like a fiddle and I agree that it’s likely he was with his now wife long before he met this lady, who was simply a booty call.

      • I don’t think she’s that young, maybe in her thirties or forties ’cause twenty somethings don’t say “cuter” or watch soap operas. That’s old school

          • These days, 40s and 50s are nowhere near hag-dom. But it doesn’t matter how old she is because her character is what matters, and that seems to be rotting from the inside out.

          • Wow, I don’t think of myself as an “old hag”! 57 still seems pretty young to me considering how much I’ve had to survive lately! I’m just getting my second wind…

          • This is all making me feel very bad. I feel we are being manipulated by the same people that helped destroy us in the first place. Goodnight…:(

      • Oops -I sat around trying to find meaning in bullshit for YEARS – Tracy calls it unraveling the skein of fuckedupedness! 😉

      • Beware the smooth talker! My ex was also all talk and no action, and I think that’s a common trap first-time chumps fall into. “Oh, he said he’s working all this overtime, how hard-working! Oh, but wait, we’re not really seeing an influx in the amount of money coming in, just the amount of time he’s out of the house!”

        “Oh, he says he really loves ME, but wait, he’s still texting the OW because now they’re ‘just friends’? Hm…”

        I could go on and on and I’m sure everyone has a few examples of their own!

        Rose-colored glasses are dangerous… At least now I learned that actions DEFINITELY speak louder than words! 🙂

  • Dear Confused,
    This guy never intended to wife you, he only thought of you as a side piece. You were never number one in his eyes. Truth be told he probably had several women so there was no rush to get into your panties. Anything that comes out of his mouth is a lie, so he will continue to lie to you to get into your panties. Being cute doesn’t matter, just the fact that you are willing to give him your vagina for free, without commitment, accepting his status.

    As far as men are concerned even cheats, there are two types of women, those whom they marry (have children, buy homes, leave their satates too-)and side chicks (those whom they sex in the vagina, mouth, anus, ear, wherever). Don’t be a side chick.

    • Leave their estates too…….

      Also you were never the one. He planned a wedding, paid for a honeymoon, lives with, decorated a home, buys her flowers, makes love to his wife. Why aren’t you pissed? He dropped you because he doesn’t want to be labeled the cheat, who is the real fool? The wife who doesn’t know or the ho who went in willingly?

  • What is it about some women determined to be men’s unpaid whores? I’m not anti sex before marriage, I’m not religious and I’m all for equality – but I am teaching my teenage daughter, not to sleep with or engage in sexting with someone unless she knows who they are (as in properly) and what their intentions are towards her. Not to give herself away cheap!!!!!

    I can’t help feeling that a lot of the trouble stems from women not taking the time to establish those two essential facts in the first place!

    • Did you ever hear a Dr. Laura radio show English Lady? That’s where I first learned this kind of gal existed. She would regularly berate them as being dumber than a common whore because a whore is smart enough to get paid for putting out.

      • I’ve never heard of Dr Laura but I wholeheartedly agree with her sentiments Chumpalicious. It’s what I tell my daughter (& son). You have value, don’t ever give yourself to anyone either for sex, professionally or even in friendship who doesn’t acknowledge and respect your value.

      • Actually Dr. Laura (the doctorate is in physiology, btw, she knows pretty much nothing about psychology/relationships etc other than her personal opinions and religious beliefs) says that the only time a woman should ‘give’ a man sex is when they’re married. The usual ‘why should a man buy the cow when the milk is free?’ and declaring that men devalue any woman who will have sex before marriage. Then she justifies it, not as a personal or religious belief, but as a universal rule of human psychology.

        I find this opinion extremely offensive, as a woman who ALSO wants good, caring, mutual sexual pleasure, not always in the context of marriage. I also find it offensive to men, most of whom do not value women primarily because of their ability to resist sexual overtures. The last time I checked, my value was NOT determined by what I have between my legs.

        Given that, MUTUAL relationships, that means respectful ones, where neither participant is ‘giving themselves away cheap’. And of course, if a person’s religious values include no non-marital sex, that’s another issue altogether …

  • “Is she stupid, desperate?” That is a question you need to be asking yourself.

    Look; he’s a pig. He’s a serial cheating pig. And it seems like rather than acknowledging that, you’ve chosen to attack her. You need to focus your energy on disappearing from this situation, and leave her the fuck alone. It’s not her fault he’s a pig; She shouldn’t be your target.

    ” . . . he fantasized about me on their wedding night and all the time, texts that said I was the best and texts that said I was nicer and cuter.” He says this because it causes you to open your legs to him. Stop being the fall back. Stop being involved in this repugnant drama. Your entire “relationship” with him was based on a lie. Back out and live a happier life.

    • “Is she stupid, desperate?” It’s funny, because I asked the same question of the OW. She didn’t know that during their 3 year affair he was married to me..he lied to both of us. However, the H made it clear from DDay on that the OW is the one he wanted in his life. He sulked around like a big baby during the 2 whole weeks she refused to talk to him. Then BOOM, they were back together. I asked myself the question “What the hell is she thinking? Why would he go back to a man who screwed over his wife and kids for 3 years? Is she desperate?” Well, I had to turn that around. Why would I take a man back who had screwed the kids and I over for 3 years? Not that it was an option..he wanted Miss Fairytale and their unicorn life..but I still questioned HER decision. I decided that they are both completely disfunctional, needy liars who are so in love..it’s destiny! Take him. I hope you two live happily ever after in HELL.

        • Well, he picked her. Obviously it must be Twu Wuv if he’s willing to go to such extreme measures to be with her as to hide a family and then dump them instantly for her when exposed. Star crossed lovers, dontcha know.

          • Tell me about it, chumppalla! Talk about feeling like a complete zero. Self-esteem? Gone! Not even a sorry..just off with the OW. Star crossed lovers..but of course! They were meant for each other..they’re just “connected” in ways that we weren’t. Talk about digging that knife deeper into my heart..not even a second thought about me!

  • Oh how I love when we get a letter from an OW! It always reminds of the valuable counseling session early on in The Troubles when my counselor asked me to consider exactly what kind of woman would settle for being an other woman…low character, low self-esteem, low standards, low intellect. Check, check, checkity-check! I always appreciate when we get a reminder of that truth.

    Confused – I might have a modicum of sympathy for you if I could see your side of the 10 month long “dirty text” exchange. You knew he was married….how did you respond when he told you you are cuter or you are the best (which I’m guessing read: “UR teh BEST!!!”).

    One of the things that brought humor to my life during those dark times was reading the idiotic texts from the OW. My favorite was the one with the sexy talk En francais….except she doesn’t exactly parlez, so she spelled it all kinda phonetically. Hot, hot, hot.

    That could be a fun little Chump contest — the bestworst text you ever saw.

    I’m glad you’re keeping us covered Chris!

    • He was married when we were just texting. I didn’t even know he was engaged, let alone in a relationship with another women. To be honest I don’t even remember what I said. When I found he was married (on my own). I sent him a long thread of texts. The day I found out we were texting normally 15-30 minutes before.

      • When you found out he was MARRIED, what you should have done is tell his wife that he was cheating and that you had no idea he was married. Then go no contact. That’s what someone with integrity would do. Instead you just kept texting this SOB? Darlin’, he’s a piece of trash and you decided to join him in the garbage pile.

        • I feel she should have known something was fishy from all the texting. Maybe it’s just me, but the way she describes the “relationship,” she makes it sound like most of their involvement was texting, sexting and meeting up for sex. Sorry, but that SCREAMS, “Booty call.” How is it possible to know someone so little that you’re unaware that they’re engaged or married? Sounds like willful blindness.

          • God! Remember the days when men were men and they had to get off the arses to conduct an affaire instead of just around in their jocks all day, unshaven and sniggering at their flaming phones. Hell if she could have seen what I saw I bet that cretin would still be sitting around cluttering up my good loungeroom!

      • you know, you shouldn’t even texted him at all, why would you text with married man anyways??? you knew he was married, so why did you continue texting him? and please don’t tell me “we were JUST friends” I for one wouldn’t sit there and text a guy who I know is married and/or attached in any shape or form to another woman, that’s just wrong! I am a single mom and not long ago some guy that I know, who saw me at a store stopped me and asked me how I was doing etc etc then he said “it would be great to have dinner sometime you know? I will love to take you out to dinner, anywhere you want to go..” so I looked at him and said ” yes, that would be great, I will look so forward to seeing and chatting with your wife and catch up!” you should’ve seen the look on his face! that was priceless!! then I turned around and walked away. Where is the sisterhood? where is the integrity, morals? if someone (men or women) is taken in any shape or form, in my book they are off limits period! There are plenty of single people out there for gawds sake!!

    • Yep, loved some of the texts and emails. Talk about dumbing down. I will say, though, she played the ‘Oh, I’m just an innocent girl with love in my heart who doesn’t want anyone to get hurt’ act to the freaking hilt. I’m almost impressed.

    • Doop, it sounds like at least you had a good therapist! Reference earlier posts (YMBAC) about the therapist who pointed out to his/her client that “At least (CH) was showing up to sessions every week — wasn’t that a sign of his commitment t the marriage?” BARF Mine was just as bad. My ex showed up to a session with a glass of wine in a go-cup — and offered some to her! She thought it was cute.

      • I was fortunate to have a fantastic therapist! I initially booked her for both of us to go for marriage counseling, but I was not accompanied by the other part of the marriage team to our first (or any) appointment, so she became mine! I like to tell her I got her in the divorce…and still refer to our appointments as ‘marriage counseling’. I encourage everyone to keep looking for the right therapeutic fit. It’s so important. Early in the process, she kept telling me I had to love myself more. I had no idea what she meant b/c I think I have a strong sense of self, so I just counted our sessions as proof that I love me and am worth the investment. I use that same justification for frequent massages and fresh-cut flowers everytime I go to the grocery store.

  • This OW is so needy and entitled, she plays right into hands of a master manipulator liar. And yet we are the chumps? OK, I accept chumpdom, but these OW/OM? There has to be a special name and place for them in the sewer, as they are so immersed in their own poop.

  • Just before we all jump on the bandwagon of what sorry excuses for human beings OWs are, I’d just like to say, as ever, that the person most at fault here are the cheating partners & spouses.
    Sadly, because this cheating business seems so widely accepted, I know scores of “happily” married people who are cheaters with what were their OW. My ex-husband is one of them. The OW in his case was hugely entitled, but did not have low self-worth or low self-esteem. Although, I obviously think ex-H is a prize tosser but as far as she is concerned, she has netted a very successful, wealthy husband. She is also very successful in her own job.
    My boss is married to his OW. Materially & professionally, they are both very successful, high-powered individuals. There is no lack of self esteem in either or their psyches, I can tell you.
    I really do know scores of women, who were OW and they really don’t strike me as the weak & feeble types, pursuing losers. They maybe damaged people whose moral compass is far off course, but I don’t think it is their self-esteem that is damaged, I think it is their sense of entitlement. They think they should be able to have whomever they want – regardless of the collateral damage. That goes for the cheaters too.

    • They can have anyone they want…..as long as the money, fame, status is is available. Deep down inside there is always that feeling of only being accepted for what they can provide.

      There are also the manipulative ones who get a kick out of playing chess with others live or a thrill from seeing just how much one is willing to put up with.

      • “that the person most at fault here are the cheating partners & spouses.”

        Nope taking any responsibility for his actions, what so ever!

        • I think English lady meant something more in the line of “cheating partners/spouses” in the sense of including all forms of cheaters, not blaming chumps.

          But I’m glad you’re not carrying that shit, Jinx.

    • English Lady, You’ve got a great point, but if any of these OW are so great, why can’t they get a single guy? To me, If you’re single and want to date, married guys are the bottom of the barrel. Also, this particular OW is obviously a weak, desperate, pathetic whore.she says she’s moving on, but obviously she isn’t or she wouldn’t be here on this site.
      She says she feels bad, but obviously not bad enough to keep her legs closed to a man who Just Married Someone Else. In my eyes, any one who stoops to being an OW/ OM is a true bottom-feeder.

      • I don’t know sunshine & I really struggle with this.

        Clearly, I think stealing or even making yourself available to someone else’s partner/husband/wife is really unacceptable. However, I think that there is a significant section of the population who think all is fair in love & war. If they want someone, then they’ll have them – regardless.

        You could argue that another woman’s husband has a proven track record. You can see that they are good providers, have possibly dabbled in a bit of child rearing and might well be easy pickings if the marriage has gone off the boil a bit. If you are a person with a dubious moral compass & a clear idea of what you want – then perhaps it is easier to move on someone like that?

        Don’t know! I’m just throwing my thoughts out there.

        • Well, I’m single, and I can tell you that there are Tons of divorced guys who have all the creds you mention (good providers, dabbled in child rearing, etc), who are also not Proven liars and cheats. What’s wrong with her that she can’t land one of them?

          Also, in order to be a OW/ OM, you have to be ok with someone two-timing you. It’s one thing not to be in a committed relationship when you start dating, but come on, after 3 years, with someone who is a known liar/ cheater? That just reeks of desperation to me…

          • Not sure where you are sunshine, but I’ve been single for 11 years now & I have yet to meet one single divorced man who has any of the credentials I mentioned. I have a wide network of friends & colleagues & in total, over the age of 40 (as I am mid 40s), I know 3 single men. One is my brother, one is gay & the last one is a long term playboy.
            My sister got married last year just before her 40th birthday, having spent 15 years looking for a decent single men. Her other single friends despair of finding anyone. They’re not leaving it to chance either, they are out there online dating, speed dating, accepting all invitations, agreeing to be set up by friends.
            Amongst my friends her in the UK, we say that you are extremely lucky to catch a man between women. Maybe this is perception, but it certainly feeds the idea amongst those of unscrupulous morals that they only way they’ll ever get a “decent” man is to steal him off someone else.

            • “only way they’ll ever get a “decent” man is to steal him off someone else.”

              That’s the way it’s working in the States.

            • So sad. Guess you gotta come visit stateside 🙂 Still, though, I will agree 100% that there aren’t a lot of Good single men. But I’d hardly call a married guy a good catch, either… 😉

              • I was just thinking about something I noticed in all those women’s magazines where they create lists of traits of the ‘perfect man’. They go something like this:

                1. 6ft tall or taller
                2. Makes more than 80K.
                3. Opens doors for ladies.
                4. Handsome
                5. Charming
                6. Witty
                7. … etc, etc

                Nowhere in the top 10 of any such list I have ever encountered is an entry for “Good Character”.

                Now, I bet if I looked at the lists in men’s magazines, I’d find that largely missing too with one exception: loyalty would be on the top 10 list somewhere. Good body would probably be near the top (smile), so I am not saying guys are generally better at making these lists than women, but they do generally get at list one good character item on the list.

                Ideally, you’d think good character would top lists for men and women, but it doesn’t, and in my limited experience… nothing else matters much if somebody doesn’t have that.

            • I do believe in the old wives”s tale about a guy being non marriage material after he hits 35. The ones I know have slept with too many women by this age and are trying to find the perfect woman that is a combination of all the good traits of many women. These guys are so stuck or settled in their ways it’s hard to compromise on common marital issues.

              The same can be said for men trying to find good women. According to the men I know, by the time women reach a certain age, they have so much baggage, are a little worn, want to have a baby, in debt etc.

              Free sex, including porn IMHO has been extremely detrimental to women in particular. Men can always find a younger fresher less milage bride to start a family with…Now these guys whore around with women of their age group etc….

              You’ve heard since sex became easier, love is harder to find. People are marrying later, divorce stats are higher, more stds, we are “enlightened sexually” but can’t get our shit together when it comes to having long happy marriages. maybe grandma and her so called “puritan” ways was on to something.

            • I don’t even get why people think ‘having a man’ is some sort of ultimate goal in life for women. I liked being married very much and I loved having my family but it wasn’t ever, when I was younger, a goal to have all that. I figured if it happened it happened and got on with my life without worrying about it.

        • Well spoken and right on the money. I agree, not all OW/OM are idiots – sadly, they know exactly what they are doing – but just don’t care about the collateral damage they are a part of. I would say it is a sad commentary on our culture/time – personal entitlement and no concept of what integrity means. I’m only regretful for the fantasy of what I believed my life/marriage was. Lesson learned.

        • I think a lot of OW, the ones who know very well what they’re getting into, the ones who will often flirt with married men deliberately, are narcissistic themselves. Feels to them like some kind of victory to ‘steal’ a man, or to make him risk his marriage for them, or to hear and imagine how much better they are than the wife.

          Pathetic, since what they’re getting when they find a man who will cheat with them, especially long-term, is clearly damaged goods.

          • Right. They need to imagine the dude must Sparkle like a Prize in order for them to play Dangerous Femme Fatale with irresistible powers of seduction. Specialness, all around. Narkles. Ah, sweet delusion.

    • An English Lady, well said! I think you are spot on regarding the sense of entitlement OW’s and cheating partners have.
      My STBXH dumped me for a younger, more professionally successful woman (I guess you can say I am the dumb housewife). I looked up her information online and looking at her, she should not have had any problem dumping her current long-time partner and getting a single guy who did not have any kids. But she “loves” my ex-H and could care less of the damage she and my ex-H have done to me and my two children.

      So, like you said, I do believe that in their minds they have done nothing wrong because they are in love and we are just collateral damage but I have to wonder what has happened to this woman to make cheating “OK” in her mind. Of course, my ex-H is guilty as well and I just see him now as an empty shell.

      • “So, like you said, I do believe that in their minds they have done nothing wrong because they are in love and we are just collateral damage…”

        I agree; I think this is probably how my ex and the OW see it…. they are in luv….. And I agree with the rest of that last paragraph as well.

        • Yes to “So, like you said, I do believe that in their minds they have done nothing wrong because they are in love and we are just collateral damage…” But let’s keep in mind that, to think that way, you have to be of poor character anyway, very self-centered. (Or sometimes just really young and ignorant!)

          But our culture does encourage this belief; LURV is all, LURV heals all, LURV justifies all ….. Stay w/the abusive man, your LURV will heal him … someday. Stay with the addict, your LURV will heal her … someday. Break up a marriage, if it’s LURV, it’s right. Break up children’s family, LURV makes it OK. Put up with jealousy and control, it’s just a sign of how strong the LURV is. Very sick.

    • Also, too, in addition:

      classic narcissistic behavior: exhibitionistic flash and even (yes) professional success on the outside; emptiness and bottomless self-loathing on the inside (hence the total lack of empathy).

      Remember: there are ‘fuck-you’ narcissists, and ‘fuck-me’ narcissists but THEY ALL SUCK!

      • Are there ANY images in our culture/news/media that support character as being positive (and if so, not totally lame at the same time?)

    • An English Lady, that is so true. A true sense of entitlement. Both my ex and the ow have that. Think they can take whatever they want when they want. The ow more than my ex, although he is a prize tosser and always has been (discovered this once the rose coloured glassed came off). She was married too with two very young children. Did either of them care how it affected their own children (we have two together). Not in the slightest. My ex’s response to how it was affecting our children was “kids are resilient and they will get over it”. That was it. He only sees one of his children now for about 2 hours every 6 months. The other has nothing to do with him.

    • I whole heartly agree !
      IHO….the person with no self esteem, no self worth is a spouse that would waste anytime reconciling, with a cheater.DDay #2,#3???????? W T H ?
      Cheaters cheat because they can, they need to suffer the consequences.
      One and done !

  • For the life of me, Confused, I cannot figure out what is in it for you. Why did you do it? I know why I continued on with my lying, cheating bastard of a husband of 22 years…..but why did you continue with this guy after discovering the truth (and I use that lightly because I don’t really think you have “it all”) about his marriage? I know that I want and deserve respect. Respected enough to have my partner treat me as an equal and give me the respect I deserve.

    Your character, or lack thereof, caused Mr. Scumbag to treat you the way he thought you deserved. You were sexting him for quite some time after meeting him on a website. Just EWE!!!!! What message did he get from that? Then you knowingly continued to see him after discovering his lies and his WIFE!!!! Again…….gives him the clear message that you don’t value yourself much, so really…. why should he!!!!

    My husband’s OW of five years knew he was married with children. He came right out and told her (this comes from her) that he would never leave me for her. So, why continue? Does not make any sense to me. I know I would never knowingly settle for being someone’s piece of cheap ass!!!! She called me after I cut him loose….she told me that my husband had become a really great liar! Yep!!!! And she has now moved away from her three children and STBXH to live with my piece of shit husband! She knows what he is capable of!

    Do yourself a favor Confused, go get therapy!!!!! That is a special kind of crazy you are involved in and it speaks volumes about your self worth. There is so much more to life than this. You need to fix your picker so you do not end up in yet another relationship that involves more than two people (your own or someone else’s)!

    • To be honest I don’t know why I continued. I guess I believed him or wanted to believe him that he made a mistake in marrying her and he cared about me. As for the texting, It was after we were together for 2 years.

      • You have self-esteem issues and I think you need to get therapy and get your mind right. You know you made a mistake, and cutting off contact with both of them is the right thing to do so I’m glad your doing it.

        You made bad choices along with him, but you’ve now got the opportunity to live a better life away from the mind-fuck of all of it. It’s hard for people here to give you a lot of sympathy when you still were involved after he was married. He’s a pig and you allowed yourself to get pulled into his pig pen. Now you have the opportunity to turn it around and live a better life.

        • I’m not really asking for sympathy. I made a very bad choice and regret with every ounce of my being. I will have to live with the hurt I caused his wife and the hurt I caused myself after continuing to be involved with him after I found out. It was the longest few weeks (after I found out). I wish I could go back and tell him to F off like I wanted to/should have.

      • Hi OW,

        I am not going to flame you, because I think you are hurting enough. But think of this: what sort of a man does what this asshole did? Thinks it is ‘fun’ manipulating people, lying to them in order to get what he wants, doesn’t care at all who he is hurting and disrespecting?

        A MAN WHO HATES AND FEARS WOMEN. You met online? That is trawling for diamonds in a sewer. You don’t want this POS in your life. Tell everyone about him, name names. And as for feeling humiliated and betrayed and used and disrespected, join us in this horrible club that we are all members of. It hurts like hell.

        • Patsy,
          Thank you, but like I said in other threads I should have ended it when I found out. I am hurt. He tried getting an order of protection on me based on false allegation. I was able to prove they were false by keeping his text messages, thankfully.

      • What do you mean by “together”? To me, “together” means, “We are official and he is my boyfriend/fiance/husband/etc.” What you’ve described of your “relationship” so far sounds like you were having sex and sexting, but not actually in a relationship.

  • Dear “Confused”

    Bottom line?
    You and this man are Metamorphic Morons.
    There should be laws against people like the two of you being allowed to breed.

    (Situations like yours are why I would be known as the meanest advice blogger alive.)

  • I guess it’s time to find another name, lol! I’m surprised it took this long for someone else to write in as “Confused” Hm…

  • Confused/ Moving On – It’s clear you don’t believe he’s a liar. He just lies to everyone else… but not to *you*, right?

    Think about that for a second.

    If he’s lying to you, too, then what you thought was real, isn’t. Does he think you’re cuter/nicer? That’s what he *told* you….but he’s a liar…and he married someone else, so…no. Does he really love you? No. Does he enjoy sexting/having sex with you? Yes, but darn it, he enjoys having sex with his wife, too. I’d bet he’s giving his wife the same compliments that you thought were special to you.

    My guess, Confused, is that you’d take him back if he comes knocking, because you still think he’s great. You need to admit that to yourself before you can claim No Contact.

      • Then, what are you confused about? How he lied to you? How he dropped out of your life suddenly?

        You know how he told you he really didn’t love his wife that much? Well, he told his wife the same stuff about you. So that’s how she can “take him back”. I’m betting he will cheat on her again, but that’s another story.

        • I’m not confused anymore. I wrote this a few weeks ago and was just posted today. It’s in my past and I’m moving on. I am not a bad person. I made a bad mistake and I am so sorry from the bottom of my heart. I should have and wished I did tell him to F off when I found out the truth.

          • Hmmm… you are not a bad person, huh? Well, how DO you tell if someone is a bad person? Easy. They do bad things. So, you see, by definition…

            Of course, If you want to stop being a bad person, then you need to stop doing bad things. And a couple of weeks is not the past. You need a longer track record, like months/ years. Then you can think about being shifted from bad person to good person category…

          • Moving On, are you really being honest with yourself? It seems that you got dumped. You were *forced* to move on. If he hadn’t dumped you, I doubt you would be re-thinking your affair.

              • Sigh…you really are in denial. Here’s what YOU wrote:

                “When she found out he called and said he couldn’t talk to me and that he was going to be branded a cheated and have 2 divorces under his belt.”

                That sure does sound like being dumped to me. Before you can truly move on, you need to be honest with yourself.

                1) You were a booty call for 3 years.
                2) You KNOWINGLY slept/sexted with a married man.
                3) You look down on the wife and think she’s “stupid, desperate,” but YOU ARE the “stupid, desperate” person for having an affair with a married man.
                4) You were dumped when jerkface choose his wife over his booty call.
                5) You have ZERO self-respect, which is why you’re in this situation. Please get yourself some therapy to figure out why you’d debase yourself simply to be someone’s booty call.

              • According to your letter, as soon as the wife found out “he called and said he couldn’t talk to me”. You haven’t talked with him in over a month now. Sounds he’s the one who pulled the trigger, as was Chris’s observation, too.

              • After that was written he contacted me and said “I need to work on my marriage, but we can do whatever “

              • Okay….so at that point he made it official – you’re just a booty call. ‘I’m staying with my wife, but you wanna just fuck on the side?’

                Sounds to me like you really liked this guy, and he pretty much broke your heart when he chose the wife over you, and officially branded you a booty call aka “whatever”. He may be willing to fuck on the side, but he dumped your relationship potential. That’s when the shit hit the fan for you.

                In your letter, you say you’re not pissed, not heartbroken. I think you’re both. You’re pissed at the wife for screwing up what you thought you had. And you’re heartbroken because you loved him.

              • “In your letter, you say you’re not pissed, not heartbroken. I think you’re both. You’re pissed at the wife for screwing up what you thought you had. And you’re heartbroken because you loved him.”

                I think this is pretty on target!

              • I wouldn’t say I am heartbroken. I am more disappointed and angry at myself for believing he cared about me. Angry at myself for disrespecting myself.

              • Ok.

                Have you looked for forums that support OW’s to leave? Because, no offense, but coming to a chump site is more of an invitation to a flagellation orgy than a plan to get out, stay out, and fix your picker–just from where I’m sitting.

              • This I believe. And therein lies your narcissism.

                Newsflash: YOU are not the victim here, not of the cheating d**kwad and not of yourself. There is only one victim here, and it is NOT YOU.

                Your regret is ALL about YOU.

                Thank you for confirming.

              • I’m sure she feels used as hell too. Because if she doesn’t then that Would point to bad self-esteem.
                Look, I can’t condone the imperfect timeline for her ending the relationship er, interaction she was having with this bastard but I am gonna sympathize with what a giant mindfuck this guy pulled on her. Which of us was immediately capable of turning off our invested feelings and walking the heck way? Which of us didn’t continue to believe the things our cheaters said even though it was increasingly conflicting with what we saw? How many of us had the fully developed defense and red flag detector that allowed us to respond perfectly to our mindfuck situation? I don’t think it’s fair to automatically assume Confused is dumb for being duped, used or in the end confused. That happened to all of us.

                So yeah, the guy who used her could have been my ex. Heck, when I first started reading this I had a panicked moment that it was my ex. I know if she were the OW in my situation I would have zero empathy. And as some of the ladies have stated above I’m sure it’s triggering for those who heard platitudes from the OW only to see further shitty behavior.

                But I will not lump her in the same category as this guy who deserves to have his balls become unusable. I’m sorry for what happened to you Confused. It was an extremely crappy thing. Welcome to the club of feeling extremely used by some douche bag expert talker. Hopefully you’ve learned what I’ve had to learn. Always always watch his actions, not his words. Respect yourself and the moral line enough to stay No Contact.

              • P.S. he is minimizing and lying his ass of to her. She probably doesn’t see how completely effed up he is because it hasn’t been fully revealed to her yet. He was stringing you both along. Believe me, that whole cuter than her, thinking about you on his wedding night stuff….he is simply using what he knows will hook you. He’s a master manipulator. A sick sick sick person. As someone says above, he most likely hates women. And it’s also very likely that he’s lied to you about the timeline of them being together. My ex compulsively lied to women about timelines. Even when it wasn’t necessary.

              • Believe me when I say, men lie in texts. I found some pretty big doozies about me on my STBX phone. For example: I have had a boyfriend for 6 months. Really? Love to know his name! I have also moved out of the house I currently live in, but then came back & kicked him out. Huh, who knew? He’s been living in hotels for a while…seems silly when he was sleeping on the couch downstairs. Ironically, he met this girl on a dating web site, & encouraged her to “get off it” because “men are liars”. Wowza, project much you stupid SOB?? My story is soooo messed up, & complicated I haven’t seen anything like it on this site…which says nothing good about my situation. I’m fortunate that my STBX wasn’t physically violent, but his ability to twist situations to make me the bad guy is the stuff of legend. I really am looking forward to getting off this bi-polar coaster I’m on right now!

              • ” My ex compulsively lied to women about timelines. Even when it wasn’t necessary.”
                Mine too! The gift of feeling insane, it lasts a lifetime and keeps on giving. Once I messed his whole game up and said I’d go to brother’s house even though he was dissuading me with every “of course you can still come if you *want to.” By this time he could rely on my opting out which gave him the extra added satisfaction of being able to say I could have gone if I’d wanted to, and making it look like it was my un-manipulated choice not to go in the first place. He made a little scene, said they were only going to watch The Game and he was going to stay a long time (it was a long drive each way) and I said, “cool, let’s go.” He went in the hall and had a long talk with god. Not. He did say, “I have to tell you something. The girls (nieces) are at my exes and I’m supposed to pick them up and take them back home on the way.”
                I couldn’t speak. I’d asked to meet the woman when we were dating; why not if she was going to be in our lives? But he was mortified at that idea and said she was nuts, his family thought she was nuts and she would not be on our lives. Affix Sara’s moron ears. I was so hurt and pissed. When I heard his car pull away I called my The Worst Word You Can Call A Woman Never Real But Really Betraying Evil Sister In Law. Stoopid cries the story out to her. I said it’s really hard when I hear he’s picking the kids up from staying the weekend at her house. Who would even arrange that? She told me to hang on a sec, fumbled around with a lot of parent-speak to her youngest and about five minutes later returned to the phone. She said, “It was me. I asked if he’d pick them up at her house.” My brand new shiny sister in law said. As soon as I came on the scene the two of them became best friends–all in secret of course. He and his brother (her hubby) are tied at the asshole. Inseparable. I had been immediately replaced as the Hatee and she was suddenly included in their hall of fame. I asked him another time if I could take one of the girls somewhere she really wanted to go but he just mumbled and deflected. Ours was a short term marriage–the longest short term I’ve ever lived–this was year four and the first dinner he “allowed” my family to meet his. It was a humiliating night, later I heard about the judging, why wasn’t my brother more together, why weren’t we a bigger family, they all had trophies up their asses and Montessori inspired in vitro self esteem. A few weeks after I left, I went on antisocial media and found a glowing picture of the ex and my (never really, very sadly) beautiful niece. The ex was only one of many kibble sources but he was her “one and only.” He knew how much those kids meant to me, but made contact near impossible…always said I just could always just get in there and forge my own relationships if I wanted to so much. So this pic was slapped bold and big and nanny to me. Caption: “me (HER) and my (HER) beautiful niece at blah blah, her birthday dream come true.” He knew she had planned to take her that night at dinner, the first and last time my family met his–except for two public events where his brother and family simply fled, rather than turning around one row and introducing themselves. Seeing that pic hit hard, broke the dam denial. She was there the whole time, forever, there was never a time she wasn’t involved in spite of him agreeing it was inappropriate and either “she was hardly there anymore” or he had “no control over what his brother and sister in law did.” Oh come on. Feh, Then I found another picture, she’d done her nails in whore red and placed her bitch slap hand over a first copy of a script the brothers had written, for the fans. Her’s? His? His and Her’s? Made her look super cool. But I’m sure the juiciest part about it was doing it all behind my back–for years. Imagine the power she felt. Where was the understanding psycho bitch who knew betrayal so deep it had her key his Benz? Eh fug that. This side feels much better. I never let him know I found those pictures. I will never give them the satisfaction. She had the audacity to call our house early on in the marriage and try to admonish my husband for not going to one of his niece’s events, the former car keyer psycho bitch cum properly medicated saint. I picked up, told her to get her fucking ass off the phone, learn some boundaries and never call us again. She sniffed, “you can’t talk to me like that, nobody talks to me like that,” and hung up. I was still being gaslighted big time, thought this was an anomaly. I’m sure he called her back that night. My passive very aggressive husband said he “kinda liked” us going at it, imagine what it did for his ego! He had his ex and current wives fighting over him and the smug satisfaction of having one over on the current wife with the ex. Who had become the BFF of the Shitter In Law. To this day I do not go on FB. I don’t know if I ever will. It’s gonna take a lotta meh. I only needed one excursion down that lane to fill in all of the assholes I was too naive to see clearly, the utter and total lie our marriage had been from beginning to end. What do you call someone who puts up with that shit? A chump. A big fat stoopid chumper. I hope the DListed guy reviews Lilo tonight.

              • You should be really angry with this guy and don’t give him any headspace. You made a mistake, pray about it ask GOd for forgiveness and move on.

                He doesn’t love you, he is incapable of love. right now he is he is doing his best to get out of spousal support for number 2.

              • Gross meaning that he’s not doing a whole lot to “work on his marriage” if he offered to “do whatever.” What a POS.

              • Moving On- I think his “working on my marriage” strategy while encouraging the OW to have contact sexually and emotionally with him is the definition of false reconciliation (as many of us have discovered.) What a waste of a human being. Glad it opened your eyes to go NC and hope you aren’t holding out on a future connection when
                he crawls back claiming you are his soul-mate and begins love-bombing as his world falls apart. Stay Strong!

              • She’s not confused anymore because- as she mentions a few threads up- the married guy she was with tried to get an order of protection against her after the affair was exposed. It’s amazing how much clarity, self-reflection and remorse one suddenly is able to achieve once the cheating partner files paperwork to keep you away from his carcass of a marriage!

          • I have gone in and edited your screen name to Confused — the way you signed your letter. DO NOT use other peoples screen names. This was pointed out to you. I don’t care how you ” feel” your screen name is Confused for this thread. It’s a PITA to edit this so don’t use Moving on again. Thank you.

  • Just telling you, these are the lies my distraught self was fed:

    ‘she meant nothing’.
    ‘she was just a f ‘
    ‘She was a new c t and a new pair of t ts’
    ‘it was the newness that was exciting’.

    All lies.

    The most honest thing he has maintained was ‘it was a fantasy, and I never meant to replace you’.

    See how we are THINGS, OW? Objects, both of us, for his gratification? That is called CAKE.

    • This shit is what they ALL tell the wives !
      It had to mean SOMETHING after 3 yrs and at the risk of “losing everything” !
      They say this because this is what wives WANT to hear, more lies, more bullshit !
      They will say anything to make things better for themselves .

      • Nope it didn’t mean anything to them. You assume these guys think with anything other than their penises. Sex for SOME of these people is a game, nothing more serious than eating a hamburger. Money on the other hand is an entirely different matter.

        Women view sex differently than men. Women tend to think more in terms of commitment, which is not always the case with guys.

      • I heard the same nonsense too. When I told my cheater after D-Day, after years of his detachment, lack of empathy, lack of emotional and physical intimacy, that if anyone had “reason” to cheat it should have been me (ecept for my integrity, loyalty, and moral compass) He stated, “I didn’t REALLY enjoy it….” Duh, so why did you continue doing it, time after time???

        • I want OW to see that both women are used as objects for his gratification (cake). And he has no hesitating in ‘doing whatever it takes’ for his centrality in the universe. Lying, cheating, flattering, deceiving…

          you kind of have to be out of it, to see the inhumanity. It is not at all confusing – once you are out of it.

  • This is going to sound a bit… hmm… (I want to say “obvious”) … “curt”, but this is probably a ‘reality check’ we could all use from time-to-time:

    Every snowflake is unique, right? Except, they’re not that unique at a macro level… at all.

    Chances are… if you think you’re relationship problems are “unique”, and they don’t involve alien abductions, goat sacrifices, and midget tossing… they’re not that unique.

    How many variations can there be between 2 or more adults?

    • “Chances are… if you think you’re relationship problems are “unique”, and they don’t involve alien abductions, goat sacrifices, and midget tossing… they’re not that unique.”

      LOL!!! Alien abductions! LOL!

      • Hey! Alien abductions are not unique either! They happen all the time, it’s just a big cover-up. And besides, aliens live among us, so we should embrace their diversity in our multicultural society.

    • This is the point!…If we were all special little flowers and unique to everyone else, then there would be no need for psychology to exist…from Chumps having to deal NPD fuckchops is proof that 1) psychology is necessary and 2) they all play from the same book… the most fascinating thing about this process, is essentially realizing how utterly not unique my STBXW was in her three affairs.

    • Western cultures focus so much on the individual and our ‘special uniqueness’ that we forget how very very much we have in common, and how few patterns can cover most variations on our personalities and situations.

      And I for one find that reassuring!!!

  • So true Patsy. I heard all that too. My ex-H is married to her now. I still have the desperate emails he sent me, outlining exactly how nothingy & meaningless she was!

    I have no doubt that I was described in equally “glowing” terms too. Who’d want to be with anyone who talked about other people like that?

  • I think you guys are beating a dead horse here. Obviously, she knows what she did was wrong and doesn’t intend to make that mistake again. Our hammering her over the head with questions isn’t going to change anything if she chooses to return to him later even after all that has been said and done. We can wring our hands and sigh and scratch our heads wondering why she did this, but, seriously, having been the “wronged” party and the one who chose to stay with a guy who loved his CAKE and tried to “fix” everything that was wrong with our marriage, I get it. These guys are good. They are smooth. They say all of the right things at the right time. They tell us what they know we want to hear and we believe even though that little voice in our heads is screaming “LIAR”. We need to build her up. Commend her for seeing the light. It doesn’t matter how the end happened. It happened and she is out. We need to let her know that she is the lucky one. It could have been you that he put the ring on and it would have been you finding out there was an OW. Thank your lucky stars that you aren’t the one stuck in a courtroom trying to get what’s coming to you because he is so good at lying, even the judge believes him. You are strong Confused. Learn from this mistake you have made. You are well able to take care of yourself. You have no ties to bind you to this jerk. Find someone who is deserving of what you have to offer (and someone who is free.) You see a red flag, you run for the hills. There are plenty of fish in this ocean. Find one who isn’t attached to someone else. Pride of self, girlfriend.

    • “Obviously, she knows what she did was wrong and doesn’t intend to make that mistake again.”

      I don’t see that in the letter. She continued to sleep/sext with him after she knew he was married and it only ended because the wife found out and he dumped her. If she had chosen to stop sleeping with him once she found out he was married, then I would agree with you.

      “Our hammering her over the head with questions isn’t going to change anything…” and “We need to build her up. Commend her for seeing the light.”

      LW is not being honest with herself about the situation. “Hammering her” with questions is FORCING her to look at herself in a mirror. And sorry, there’s nothing to commend her for. The relationship ended because he dumped her, not the other way around.

          • There isn’t one. He tried to get one because he was afraid I was going to contact his wife and show her texts messages between the two of us. Needless to say the case was dismissed because he was lying and texts proved it

      • I think we’re all piling on because:

        I think a good number of us have encountered an OW that was sorry and admitted fault, only to find out a month or a year later she’s back screwing our husband. So our give a shit switch when it comes to OW apologies is broken.

        She wasn’t duped. She found out he was married and THEN she still went ahead and texted and screwed him.

        Poking OW with a sharp stick is fun!

        • heh. this: “Poking OW with a sharp stick is fun!”….

          Also, she keeps talking about how hurt she is. Boo-Fucking-Hoo.

          Wish I’d have had the CHOICE about whether or not my ex fucked Dr. Hoe…like this one had the choice to fuck her pig-man.

          Too bad, so sad. Now drink a great big cup of shut the fuck up and crawl back under your rock.

        • Agreed! In my case the OW cried to me about how sorry she was and how she didn’t mean for this to happen, etc., etc. Boo fucking hoo. And then proceeded for MONTHS to try to contact my husband, make up lies about our 12-year-old son to get attention, and so on.

          Confused/moving on… the aftermath of infidelity is measured in years, not weeks. Sounds like you’ve got a lot of growing up to do.

        • I think a good number of us have encountered an OW that was sorry and admitted fault, only to find out a month or a year later she’s back screwing our husband. So our give a shit switch when it comes to OW apologies is broken.

          THIS! 100%!! On Dday when I called the OW and confronted her..I got “I’m so sorry honey” over and over. And “I’m done with him on my end. I don’t need his shit.” Yep. That lasted all of 2 weeks. And they are back together. So screw the OW/OM. You made your bed, now lie in it.

        • You also have to understand that, like Chris pointed out, She was the initial one being duped. We all know that feeling of “wanting to be good enough” and “how come not me?”. She understands what she did was wrong so no matter how many times people want to shame or force her into a feeling she is going to feel what she is going to feel.

          I can tell you that I absolutely hooked up with my ex after he got the OW pregnant (according to him she didnt know about me at first but ignorance does not make you innocent. She had all the clues in the world that I was around). When she found out about me for sure she still stayed. There is a revenge aspect that was fulfilled for me. The only person I feel bad hurting is myself for stooping to that level. When he finally married her 6 months into her being pregnant he told me he was still in love with me and knew it wasnt going to last and wanted to be with me. I chose to tell him to leave me alone, but before he got married I fed into it. He tried to see me less than a month before she gave birth but I chose not to see him.

          So I do get where she is coming from. He was talking to me, giving me hope (I was heart broken and wanted to be good enough), all the while starting a life with her (grant it, its kinda forced but still a choice).

          • Kristina L..Lee Ann and I are experiencing/have experienced the hookup with the ex or STBX. I will not apologize for my feelings of revenge on the OW. In my case, the OW was initially duped into believing my H was divorced. However, even when she found out, she chose to continue the relationship with her. She goes back into a relationship with my H, knowing that he cheated on me for 3 years, and basically dumped all over his kids, too. So. Do I feel any regret for any hookups that have/may continue to happen? Nope. Hell yes, he broke my heart into a million pieces, and I hoped that he would want to work on our marriage. Didn’t happen..he chose her..she stayed with him..so whatever happens to her is her own damn fault. I don’t give a rat’s ass about her feelings whatsoever.

            • I understand the highschool sweethearts is so painful , but in the end the new baby did you a big favor. Be glad you didn’t marry this guy and have a family with him.

              • Courtships are suppose to be perfect and stress free. You will find someone. Just work on you first.

              • Thank you jinx. I sure hope so. Im still trying to navigate being an adult without someone by my side. Im 24 now and some of the most life altering and defining years was with this douche. I put myself aside for him trying to make him happy and give him what he wanted. A lot of good that did me!

          • Wait, this guy brought you into the picture after he had impregnsted her snd then married her? He then married her at 6 months pregnant, stringing you along. Hmmmm am I missing something.?

            • No I had been dating him since I was 16. He is the only person I had ever been with. We had been engaged and he called it off but we were still trying to work it out. In the meantime, he got pissed off at me for God know what (this was his pattern) and went out and met someone and told me I dont listen like she does or I piss him off or whatever. I did the dance and when he went to leave her and tell her he was still in love with me, she said she was pregnant.

              • I had been around for 7 years. I can count 19 girls he either emotionally or physically cheated on me with. The 32 year old moron (hes 25) was in the picture for 2-3 weeks before she got pregnant.

              • Sorry, I had known him since I was 16, Started dating when I turned 17. He asked me out 4 times before I said yes. I should’ve listened to my first instancts!!

              • Kristina L,
                I know its been painful being cheated on, (ask me how I know) but count your blessings that you didn’t marry him or have children and waste 20-30 years with this asswipe! If you think about it, you dodge a bullet, you really did!! He is a serial cheater, he would bring nothing but misery and yes always listen to your gut instincts. Here is an advice for you that I wished I had followed. ( I kept second guessing myself and believed his words instead of paying attention to his actions) When you date someone watch closely to what they do, especially in the first 6 months, because most of the time whatever good you see, that’s the best you are going to get and whatever is bad will get much worse in the future. Don’t keep making sacrifices, especially for your own well being, needs and happiness for someone else. Hang in there and keep in no contact and don’t believe anything that comes out of that fucktards mouth!

              • “When you date someone watch closely to what they do, especially in the first 6 months, because most of the time whatever good you see, that’s the best you are going to get and whatever is bad will get much worse in the future. ”

                Great advice, Thanks Nicolette!!

    • Couldn’t have said it better myself! Was thinking the very same thing. She started out as chumped as all of us. And everyone makes mistakes. I don’t think she’ll be making the same one again!

    • I agree with you Lee Ann, Confused did something really wrong. She now knows she was wrong, she’s confessed to it, came to this website , has been humiliated and guess what she even admits she was wrong. In my book that means I should to forgive her.
      Of course I understand there are no guarantees Confused will not do it again but right now I should forgive her( she did not wrong me so I have nothing to forgive:)… But I am willing to encourage her even though i was married to a serial cheating g scumbag.

  • Another thought, Confused/ Moving on:

    If you truly feel bad about what you’ve done, why don’t you do some positive stuff to help make up for your actions. You know, like volunteering, donating money to good causes, helping with church projects, being a Big Brother/ Big Sister, whatever. Something significant to make the world a better place. It won’t fix the pain you caused the people you injured, but at least it will help counteract what you did to make the world a worse place. You know, instead of working toward a neutral carbon footprint, you’d be working toward a neutral karma/ bad energy footprint. That would help show that you really are sorry and have some redeeming qualities.

  • Confused,

    I just wanted to encourage you to keep no contact from this cheater and just go cold turkey and forget he ever existed. Life is an adventure and there should be an honest guy out there for you as well. Please learn your lesson that it is never OK to cheat because in the process you are hurting many people including yourself. You have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and try to help others, not hurt them.

    • I think that any man that ‘triangulates’ women whether from the perspective of spouse or Ow, is a manipulator and narcissist and both woman should run for the hills.

      • Very apt observation Moving on@ 51. This was my ex to a t. When I met him he seemed like a super decent guy. But after catching him and then seeing what he posted online as his dating profile and how he schmoozed and lied to all of the ladies he was chasing….it still makes me shudder. He was very clearly a predator. But it still makes me so confused because I don’t know what happened to the man I initially met (yes, he was never there) but the icky of him sort of grew greater over time like a cancer. My ex could’ve been the guy in confused’s letter. He was and is that guy.

  • This quote came to mind while reading Confused’s saga:

    “If you cannot write well, you cannot think well; if you cannot think well, others will do your thinking for you.”- Oscar Wilde

  • Confused/Movingon:

    I am a bit confused myself. Exactly what do you mean by “involved with him in some capacity for 3 years”? That doesn’t sound like a normal dating situation to me. If I were seeing someone exclusively for three years I would describe it any other way but the way you are describing it. You have gone into details about everything except this.

    And because I am curious…….how did you find out that he had gotten married??

      • Well……he’s a real piece of shit! I really think he did you a big favor by showing you just want kind of person he truly is. I really feel badly for his wife. It appears as though she was blindsided. Unfortunately, you had the knowledge that he was married and you chose to continue in this way regardless. I don’t believe she would have married him if she had this truth prior to her big dream filled day. I don’t have much sympathy for you there, the OW in my case knew this “little” detail as well and she chose to help him destroy my life and that of my children with what I can only assume was zero empathy or guilt. With EVERY action there is a reaction. How you decide to live your life CAN and WILL have a reaction to others involved in your life. If you don’t want to hurt others and you can truly imagine the pain you will cause with your actions than change your action to protect the innocent!

        I think the best way for you to move on from this is to pray for his wife daily that she gets past the deep hurt and pain and finds joy and happiness in her life once again. And then live with a moral compass that NEVER points you in this direction ever again. You cannot undo what has already been done but you can chose better and live an authentic life that you are proud of.

      • We were dating for 2 years and then friends. I found on through Facebook and then google.

        Now this tidbit fascinates me. You dated for 2 years, and then you presumably broke up (why, one wonders?), and when you were as “friends” … which is why you found out he got married through facebook? Really?

        What do you mean “friends”? Because your original letter talks about sexting and becoming “intimate” after he was married.

        I don’t think you’re being honest with us and perhaps yourself.

        • She’s not being honest. The “dating” she mentions sounds like “booty call.” There’s no mention of being in a relationship, going out on dates, meeting his family or friends, no “I love yous,”…just this ambiguous “dating” term.

  • These women are unfortunately the smart ones, although I could never look at myself in the mirror if I did it……..They get the dinners, compliments, the sex where “performance” is important, the excitement of illicitness, (fucking up your life is fun) the “fun” where nothing is serious & it is a “fuck & funfest” between people who have no idea who the other one was except in their fantasies……while the “real” wife, woman, is trying to get the ass smudge stains out of his underwear, reminding him of his appointments, usually working herself, (thank God more money to spend on the whores!) cleaning the toilets, floors & whatever else for the great honor of getting what little is left of his Dick & attention, usually venereal diseases and anger you don’t live up to the fantasy (because you did not know there WAS one that wasn’t you!) Or if it is man who was cheated on, you are supporting this woman in every way you can & getting leftovers….FUN STUFF!!
    This woman is shockingly delusional, and gives us some idea what we are up against.
    What childishness! But guess what, she is getting her needs met without the down side of anything, except she can’t have him full time (which would be a real wake up call!)
    Many of these women these days are just trying to get their ego fed that they are able to “get” a guy who is in a long term relationship, especially one who has never cheated (or says he hasn’t) We have a lot of these in south Florida, many from other countries. It is worth a shot to see if they can get the house, the car, the bank account, but if they can’t, not all is lost, they got the big ego boost of getting him to cheat on you, taking his attention, compliments and dinners, money, gifts, etc. for however long they could. NEXT!! Another relationship to destroy is around the next corner!
    I am sure she had her suspicions about this man but did not care because he was feeding her ego too.

    • “These women are unfortunately the smart ones, although I could never look at myself in the mirror if I did it……..They get the dinners, compliments, the sex where “performance” is important, the excitement of illicitness, (fucking up your life is fun) the “fun” where nothing is serious & it is a “fuck & funfest” between people who have no idea who the other one was except in their fantasies……while the “real” wife, woman, is trying to get the ass smudge stains out of his underwear, reminding him of his appointments, usually working herself”

      Well I guess mine should be ecstatic over her 2 for $20 at Chilis, cheap hotels, coupon dates, lonely holidays, being his unpaid counselor, let me do you in whatever orifice in the latest porn videos, personal gofer….please he was an mean old fart but she can have that shit.

      I was at home doing the wifey things but I have respectability, a family, happy adult kids, half of his estate and whatever else GOd allows. Not in the slightest way interested in being someones cum bucket or sloppy seconds.

  • The part in this that you are all missing is the head game it plays with you. Having been the wife who got dumped for an old girlfriend that found my H on Facebook, I did everything I could to save my marriage. Why? He was a jerk looking for his CAKE and had cheated on me before. So why would I do everything to keep him? Security? Certainly not love. The desire to not have to change my life/lifestyle? We do crazy things when faced with change. Do you know who slept with him during the separation leading up to the divorce? I did. Why? Because it gave me some satisfaction to know that while he had cheated on me with her, he was now cheating on her with me. And, now, 4 years after the fact, it still runs through my mind, “why her and not me?”. She’s not anything to look at and recently I discovered that he has been posting his profiles on adult dating sites even though he is still with her (not married to her) so I know it isn’t me that it is him, but it still niggles at me in the back of my mind. It is all a mind game. Mind over matter and we have to make up our minds to let go and move on, but even with that, you always wonder why her. Just telling you like it is. And, you can yell at me and condemn me for wondering, but in weaker moments the question is there even though I would never give him the time of day. The only regret I have is that I never spilled the beans on him and never told her that he had cheated on her. Still, is it ever too late to let her know? Pissed and heartbroken? I know that song verse by verse.

    • “She’s not anything to look at and recently I discovered that he has been posting his profiles on adult dating sites even though he is still with her (not married to her) so I know it isn’t me that it is him, but it still niggles at me in the back of my mind. It is all a mind game. ”

      So you are upset that your serial cheater chose a woman he can now freely cruise adult dating sites..hmmm.. I think you give to much credibility to OW. It doesn’t matter what they look like, their financials, race, social status or any of that. The fact is anyone that knowingly allows themselves to become involved with these guys is fucked up in the head.

      It’s enlightening to see these OW write to CL to justify their actions. Men’s view of sex, potential mates, and money are so different from women. You can’t make sense out of people that have a different value system.

    • Lee Ann..same sitation here. I am the wife who got dumped for the OW. She’s the one..they are meant to be together. I filed divorce papers last week. But here’s the scoop..ever since Dday in January, he’s come back to me..wanting sex with me. I will be honest..a nasty part of me feels justified because he is cheating on his “one true love” with me. I’m done..I will not let him play with my mind. If they are so in love, why cheat on her with me? I guess technically now I’M the other woman, if I screw him? Talk about cake eating..perfect example. I’m not falling for it anymore.

      • BTW I’d like to add we’ve been together 26 years, married 25. The OW and asshole H have had their true love going on for 3 years.

      • Sandy my H left for his “one true love” too, except that he doesn’t know what love is. We were both just a means to an end for him. I gave him respectability, stability and a good life. Now he has pulled up roots and moved to her hometown for the same reason. Liars can only lie to the same people for so long before their cover is blown. I always wondered why my H had no friends to call his own and I finally figured it out. He burned all of his bridges with them and then he burned all his bridges with mine so he had to find a new audience. She offered him the perfect out. And, maybe I was the OW for a short while, but ask me if I care? It couldn’t have happened to a nicer girl or guy. Hook up with a cheater and you hook up with a cheater. She should have learned that lesson when she took him from me, but I owe her a debt of gratitude. Wonder if I should expose him and pay her back for her favor to me?

        • Wonder if I should expose him and pay her back for her favor to me?
          I am debating the same thing. I have all of the texts he’s sent to me about the sex, and he wants to continue to be with me, blah blah blah. However, I am in the very beginning stages of the divorce procedure and I don’t want to look like I’m stalking her, or I’m the crazy wife sending her crazy texts. So what I’m doing is hanging on to these texts..and when we have moved along in the divorce process and things are finally finished, I plan to send her each and every one. I’d like to rub it in her ugly face..THIS is what you wanted. A self-centered jerk who threw away his wife and kids for her..you know, soul mates and all. But gee..why is he wanting to cheat on HER with ME? What does that tell ya about your perfect relationship? As I said before..I feel vindicated that he wants to cheat on HER. At least I know that he’s not going to be faithful to her, either. And that makes me laugh! She wanted him..she got him. She “won”. Their love is going to conquer all! But if things are so beautiful in storybook land..why does he want to cheat on YOU? You get what you asked for, bitch.

    • LeeAnn,
      I let the OW know MANY times that my H had cheated on her with ME and it didn’t matter one bit. I even taped a couple of sessions and rubbed her nose in it big time and now they live together. So I don’t think anything you do matters. Some women will put up with ANYTHING to have a man and I mean ANYTHING.
      I thought I was getting even. Ha!
      She’s is butt ugly!!! Make a train take a dirt road ugly!! I wish I could post a picture of her here to prove it. When I showed my 75 year old auntie her picture she gasped so loud I thought she would pass out! She’s FAT and UGLY!
      I’m Miss America compared to her. There’s no figuring these lying POS’s out.

      • She’s is butt ugly!!! Make a train take a dirt road ugly!!
        LMAO! The OW in my case is your classic example of “white trash”. Fake, bleach blonde hair, puffed up as high as she can get it (hello 1983)..leathery skin from spending days in the tanning booth..just complete trash. When any of my family sees a picture of her..it’s the same reaction from all of them. He dumped YOU for HER? What is with these guys..choosing these women who are second-rate at best?

  • Moving on, anyone deserves better than this man. You are doing well to have cut contact with him. You may be feeling as angry at yourself as you are at him for letting yourself be treated this way. Sometimes it’s easier to focus on the faults of another person than on yourself, which is where true responsibility lies. I would suggest finding a good counselor and figuring out why you got involved in this messy drama in the first place. Your self esteem will improve and you’ll attract healthier relationships in the future. Best of luck to you.

    • Moving On, I’m with Lyn. Please, please, please get help so you don’t this again. Blocking him is all good, but that’s all on the surface. Getting to the root cause of why you did it is key to not doing it again.

  • Chris, I think you outdid yourself on this post–preach it, brothah!

    MovingOn: my colleague had almost the exact same experience you did–the difference is, the instant she found out the truth, she chucked him out on his ass and went immediately NC.

    Remember, there is NOTHING in his “fantasies” of you that make you special–everything he said is not only a lie, but is also not about you (and is likely a broken record that he has played to other unsuspecting women). To a guy like that, you are not a person, or a woman–you are an empty canvas for him to spew his own images onto. You don’t factor in this equation at all.

    If you were to watch tv for inspiration, watch “The Mistress”.

    I believe my colleague overcame the grief of her discovery because a) she believes and acts on good character, and b) by being with people. Friday/Saturday nights suck. Stay offline those times, and book real people who would support good choices that you can connect to.

  • LW/confused/Moving On, I see above that you wrote this letter a few weeks ago. The timeline in your letter is confusing (to say the least). What I get from your comments is that you recently found out he got engaged and married while he was still in a relationship (of sorts) with you. Then two weeks later his wife found out about you and he dumped you. You wrote ChumpLady the letter. A few weeks after that he told you he would still be up for cheating on his wife with you, but you refused and cut off contact with him. Do I have this right? I’m trying to understand when you knew he was engaged or married and when you cut him off.

    BTW, Chris is amazing in that he seems to know what you are confused about, while I have no clue. I thought you just wanted to know how anyone could be that fucked up, and how you could of let yourself be the other woman.

    • Congratulations on leaving a cheater, Rumblekitty. You are on your way to gaining a life. High-five right here!

    • Congratolences are in order.

      Congratulations on your new life, Rumblekitty, and condolences for what you went through and the time, innocence, and dreams that you may have lost in the process.

        • Oh, thread-jack/smread-jack! {{{{{hugs}}}}}

          Have a carrot..lol!

          A dear friend of mine spent her divorce day looking for a ring she would totally LOVE to replace the wedding ring. Are you doing something special?

          • Not yet, except I’m drunk at 4:50 pm. 😀

            Actually I’m going to get some paint this weekend and change up my bedroom. I’ve been sleeping on the couch for 4 months (D-day) because I hate being in there. I got a book on Feng shui and I’m going to make it a sex palace, or just a really nice place to sleep. 😉

            OOoo delicious carrot!

              • I though you were giving me back a carrot from yesterday when you announced you are in fact, a unicorn. I”M GONNA GETCHA!

            • Rumblekitty…you’re funny (<; Have a couple for me, I'm still at work.

              I got a book on Feng shui too. After about page 10 it got very confusing and I found out my house is configured all wrong so no wonder!!
              Ha!

              I'm slowly doing my entire house over. I repainted. I'm getting new carpet and furniture this summer. S-l-o-w-l-y getting rid of ALL bad juju!~~

              • I’m gonna to hit this bitch hard this summer. 🙂 I’m not going to go crazy with new furniture, but I will paint and get new curtains and burn sage in the corners if I have to. :o) This shit has been so, so hard. I’m just glad I have a starting point now.

            • Rumblekitty!!!!!!!!!!! Rockin it you is! Happy freedom day! And he’ll yeah paint your room and make it your sanctuary, Jedi hugs and high five girl friend!

    • Rumblekitty,

      congratulations!!!!! I am so happy for you and believe me, the life is much much better without the lying, cheating, douche bag, piece of shit!! Enjoy your freedom and soon you will feel even better, when you wake up in the morning and you are sitting in your kitchen, having your morning coffee/tea and knowing that pile of dogshit is someone else’s problem now and he is old news!

      Life is good!! 😉

      BIG HUGS!!! 🙂

        • I know what you mean about summer, me too! We need some sun 🙂

          When I got rid of my POS ex, I changed the carpets, bought some new furniture, redecorated (still working on it), painted and bought a huge screen TV with blasting sound system! I am having fun and you will too! Its priceless to get rid of the toxic cheating, lying asshole and its wonderful being single! Ask me how I know 😉

          Life is good 🙂

      • Yes…I need to burn sage too!

        First thing I did was get a new mattress. It was old anyway. I love my new mattress!! I have not found a man who is ‘Mattress Worthy’ yet. I bought all new bedding too. The works.

        • One of the first things I did when I got my freedom papers was to take back the man cave. When we first moved into our house, then-husband slapped ketchup-red paint on the walls in that room, with brown mustard trim. He did a half-assed job of it – splashing paint all over the place and not bothering with details, as per usual.

          Last summer, I tore up two layers of cheap carpet off the floor in that room. Then I cut all the carpet into manageable pieces with a box cutter and hauled it off to the dump in the trunk of my sedan. I painted the walls a cheerful yellow, with crisp white trim. And I had the room carpeted in soft, thick, gorgeous, spring green.

          I cannot tell you how cathartic that entire project turned out to be. Who’s the chicken that had to make the cornbread all herself? Chicken Little? Henny Penny? That was me. I felt like one mighty chick – and still do, every time I walk into that space. It’s now my yoga room.

          Be-gaaaww!

        • I did that too Gio and no man will be sleeping in my king size bed anytime soon, the way I look at it now, I say mine mine yep its all mine lol :))))

        • Gio, my sister finally persuaded me to buy a new bed and I have a lovely new queen on order, a bed I like, the first one I have ever picked out myself. I am so looking forward to the day the truck takes the old one away along with all the bad karma it holds. New bedding is next – and I have the sage ready to burn!

        • I figured you were my carrot buddy now, since you handed me one yesterday!

          Organic carrots usually taste better, and Tracy is into that sort of thing–I think it said on her “about me” section that she’s an organic inspector? Between being a minister’s kid, doing political-type study about South Africa, being an organic inspector and a professional chump, I figure that qualifies her to identify EVERY type of shit out there–she sure knows her shit!

    • Rumblekitty, congratulations! I love to hear when people get their “freedom papers” as someone here put it. I hope the summer (when it comes) is fabulous for you!

      One of these days it will be me doing the thread-jack.

    • New here, but just wanted to say 1) CONGRATULATIONS! 2) sooo jealous. Still in the process of filing. Just want to shake the magic 8 ball to know the date of my freedom from pathological liar, alcoholic, drug abusing, NPD – bi-polar, anxiety/panic ridden, neurologic muscular disorder(ok, not his fault), bad hygiene, cheater. Anyone jealous yet? Ready to be about 185 lbs lighter!

      • Welcome whodathunk – I also belonged to the world’s worst club as a spouse of an alcoholic/addict/unfaithful/et cetera…those elements added a few extra layers to try to untangle. For me, a combo of the ChumpLady approach plus my version of what was helpful from al-anon worked. There is light at the end of your tunnel, and a much better life ahead when you free yourself from the multi-layered mindfucks of a life with infidelity and addiction. Hang in there. Do your work. It gets better.

        • Believe me, this site has been so incredibly helpful. I was trying to figure out a twisted mind using logic & facts. After having read CL’s articles, plus the forum with my fellow “chumps”, I realized it’s not my job to figure him out, & whatever she gets, she can have. BTDT, want a refund.

          • Dear whodathunk,

            Love that moniker! And welcome to the best place EVER for navigating this perverse insanity!

            I have only been here a few weeks and have already moved forward faster than at any time during my ‘journey’.

            Also, be sure to read the books CL recommends by Dr. George Simon. We must educate ourselves, but the ‘trick’ is to actually implement that knowledge in a way that brings some peace into our lives, regardless of ‘the stupid’ that swirls around us! That is, as you know, a very key skill to learn, because ‘stupid’ does NOT totally go away! At least, not for a very long time!

            Since you are in the divorce process, the book by William ‘Bill’ Eddy on divorcing these nut jobs is essential reading. The short title is “Splitting:” It has a very long sub-title, but it is listed in the recommended books, I believe. Some of the other books by Bill Eddy will help you, as well. Got mine as e-books from KOBO. That way, I can always have them with me on my tablet.

            Forge on, whoda, Forge On!…..

            • Picked “Splitting” up from the library today! Kiddos spending night with relatives Fri night, so my crazy evening is going to include a bubble bath, glass of wine & start reading that book. Looking forward to it more than I probably should.

  • I’m not going to go on about the whole issue of finding out that he was married and then continuing to have inappropriate contact (sexting, sex, etc.).

    What I am going to address is the list of questions Confused has for the wife. It is clear that this guy is a real jackass. Given that, and given that hindsight is 20/20 and you do feel very badly for what you did to his wife, answer the following: “I’m not heartbroken just pissed. Am I stupid, desperate?”

    Once you answer these questions–which you asked of the wife–then you will know why you stayed with him after you found out he was married.

    Your timeline is very confusing. It sounds as if he were two-timing both of you, got married to her, while still keeping you on the side, and then you found out, but he told you that he was unhappy in his marriage, and then the whole thing exploded on Facebook, at which point you went NC.

    Look, it’s not uncommon for the Sparkly Turds to lie to their AP about being married. That is pretty much out of the standard playbook. And it’s why this blog can sometimes be sympathetic to the AP when it’s clear that she’s been duped from the get-go. It’s one thing to believe that you’re dating a single person and another to discover that you’re dating an adulterer. You’ve been Chumped!

    However, once you know the Cheater’s married and you keep the affair going, you lose the same kind of Chump cred that comes from being an innocent victim of a lying Sack o’ Shit.

    So, you are now away from the drama and see just what a turd lurks under the sparkles. It does matter whether or not the breakup occurred because his wife found out and stopped things or if you initiated it. But it doesn’t matter to us. It matters to you and how you move on.

    Because moving on involves therapy. You control only you. You can’t control his marriage or what his wife chooses to do. You can control whether you want to get involved in another messy relationship. If you do not get therapy, then you will very likely end up in the same kind of situation. Your Bullshit Meter did not go off. You were color-blind to the red flags. Your fantasy bubble did not burst upon learning he got married while sexting you.

    This means that you are a sitting duck for the next dysfunctional asshole who collects pussy.

    Chump Lady tells us that we need to know our own worth. Work with a therapist. Find out why you allowed yourself to limit yourself to a relationship consisting of sexting, why you wanted to believe in a man who tells you that he’s unhappy in a marriage he just entered into.

    If you want to make amends, start fixing yourself.

  • This letter got me at the first line.
    No, your situation is not unique. Spend five minutes on this site and you’ll realize that.
    Yes, it’s like a movie. One of those trashy cable movies that you feel guilty after watching, because you just wasted two hours of your life. But guess what, it’s real life. There are real people involved. Some of them are innocent and trapped in the wreck you contributed to. Do you really want your life to be like that?

  • I can shed some light on why the OW likes the whole stealing the man paradigm. My oldest daughter, who is adopted, is like that. She has endless problems with her relationships, and it all stems from a complete lack of self-worth. I unfortunately got her too late in life, but I continue to work on this with her. But she’s addicted. Here’s a snapshot into her thinking: She wants someone that everyone else wants. Because that person has the highest social value. So she contorts herself emotionally – almost pretzel-like – into the person she has to become in order to win them. If this means taking up smoking or other bad habits that they have in order to be more like them, she will. It’s scary. Then, she feels an intense senses of accomplishment at having “won” the prize. There’s no independent assessment of whether or not this person was even *worth* winning. She just gets off on having beaten all the other contestants. It’s very disordered thinking. Just thought I’d share this in the hopes that it sheds a little lights into OW mentality.

  • I always tend to hold the spouses more responsible than the OW/OM. The OW that my ex (once my divorce is final 5/1-yay) cheated with was a married coworker so her moral compass did not exactly point due North and she met me several times so she didn’t embrace the sister hood. She was definitely the selfish, entitled type so no big surprises there, but on the other hand she did not hold a gun to my ex’s head. That was all on him.

    I reached a point of indifference where she was concerned a lot sooner than I did with him. Plus when he blamed her for what happened (after of course he blamed me, the circumstances, the man on the moon, etc), it helped me see just how truly disordered he was. At one point he even told me he was mad at her for “going back to her passionless marriage!” I laughed at him on the spot and said, “what was she supposed to do?” You dumped her dickhead!” “Full of yourself much?” Come to think of it, I wish he dumped me instead of her.

    All that being said,”Confused” you definitely have issues for allowing yourself to be treated that way and you definitely played a major role in the agony this guy’s wife had to live through and that definitely sucks big time. Hopefully you can learn something from this, get therapy (like a lot of it) and truly move on.

    Good luck

    • I agree that we should hold the spouses more accountable for their actions than the OW or OM. Unfortunately, each time I discovered what my spouse was up to, it was the OW that I fought with. You saying that your H blamed you for what happened, mine had the audacity to say to me during our court appearance, that he wouldn’t have been found on facebook by his old girlfriend if I hadn’t signed him up for it. His cheating had nothing to do with him, but all to do with me. The day after I found out that the two of them were chatting it up, he told me he called her and broke it off because I made him. Not even because he wanted to do it because it was the right thing to do, but because I made him. What a dickhead! Oh, and that phone call to break up with her never happened. Just another lie on top of many.

      • I also put more focus on my husband than on the OW. In my mind the problem was his, and my issue was with him and not her.

        • OW in my case called me 4x’s in the aftermath of D-Day…Oh my if I could have reached through the phone line…she was a supposed “friend” who had been chumped herself by her X….she didn’t get much headspace but even a little was too much…however, she works in a position where she has access to personal financial information of mine…I found out she accessed it to find out my new address and phone #…I warred with myself on reporting because I was concerned about being viewed as vindictive…I eventually did report her…I would have not hesitated if she were a stranger…it being her…just a bonus…I’ve got issues with her outside STBX’s wayward NPD dick…

    • I think the OW/OM is an easy target, since it’s so hard to come to grips that we’ve been so wrong about our spouses. I really don’t want to face the fact that my STBXH has been having a 1.5-year affair (that I know about) with OW. What about our shared history? I’ve known him for over 30 years. We’ve been married for 17. He’s been part of the family for close to 25. At this point, it’s really tough to admit that I. Was. So. Wrong. About. Him.

      So it would be really easy to see OW as this amazing siren who played her song to lull STBX out of his clothes and into her bed. But really, that’s not what happened. Of course, I’m fairly sure that she came on to him, but let’s face it. He’s a grown man. He needed to set boundaries. They worked together. At the office birthday party, that kiss that she planted on his lips? Well, he should have diverted his face so as to allow only the hug. Or better yet, shook her hand. Increased distance. Not worked after hours in the same office space. If he felt that she wasn’t taking his rebuffs to heart, he could have gone to HR.

      He did none of that. And he’s lied to me, cheated financially (paid her mortgage and COBRA while she was unemployed for a summer), and co-signed an auto loan for her. I think he’s ready to co-sign some other sort of loan, too. I heard him on his cell phone the other day about how “we’ll(?) take care of you…send me the papers.” He said he was going to co-sign a student loan for a niece (lie!–the girl has two working parents).

      So okay, OW is no better than she should be, but STBX is an oath-breaker.

  • I just wanted to apologize to all of you. This letter was just to show how messed up this was. I am completely disgusted and pissed at myself for allowing myself to be used and disrespected. I wanted him to some repercussion for his actions. I was wrong and I am deeply sorry for continuing to talk and see him after I found out. I was the one responsible for ending, It was only a matter of a few weeks. All I can do which I do is pray daily for forgiveness and pray for his wife that she can get passed the hurt. I apologize that all of you were hurt and betrayed by your spouses.

    • Thanks for being brave enough to say this. Keep praying and I do think some counseling would be a good idea for you. You need to figure out how to pick guys a little better.

      Here’s to getting to meh about him. He really wasn’t worth it.

    • You appear to be a chump too, I don’t blame you needing a few weeks to figure it out. From what you’ve said the guy chumped you and his wife at the same time. That you walked away says good things about you and I’m sure it hurt. Now I’m thinking you were putting down his wife in much the same way a wife does the OW, because it is easier to do that at first than it is to have to deal with the fact that you were fooled, manipulated and lied to. It’s easier to vilify the person you don’t know, it’s really a way to excuse the one you do

  • ” Your next decision should be to cut all ties with this man and not look back.”

    Haha–“man.”

    Bahahah!

  • A general comment – maybe it’s the lapsed Catholic in me, but when I read these OW posts all I hear is a demand for absolution and lots of attention seeking. No real repentence, no sign of understanding, no action – just a lot of words. They sound a lot like my STBX, as a matter of fact – all the “I” and “me” language, the “I’m sorrys” and “I’m angry at myselfs”.

    Maybe I’d be a bit more understanding if there was some indication that the writer had actually read the many, many helpful pages on this site. Or was getting into therapy. Or wanted some resources on betrayed women. Or had visited a site for OW and learned something and had come over here to learn more. You know, action.

    No, all I hear is words, and it sounds to me like “I was duped like you! I am as injured and betrayed in this situation as you are! I am a victim like you! Feel sorry for poor, betrayed ME!” Dontcha know that their situation is UNIQUE and they need SPECIAL ADVICE – not for themselves, but because they don’t understand the poor, stupid spouse who was betrayed. Sounds like my STBX every time he e-mails me or talks to my kids, or his lawyer, or anyone who will listen.

    No, way too much self centeredness for me. I mean, really – “I apologize that all of you were hurt and betrayed by your spouses.” That’s a bit grandiose, isn’t it?

    It also seems to me that these poor, betrayed OW are attempting to drag awful lot of drama over here. I have to wonder if this isn’t part of the reason for posting. After observing STBX, who is now in the process of losing his business, once the fake relationship drama is gone more excitement has to be found or manufactured somewhere else. What better place than a refuge for betrayed spouses to generate lots and lots of attention!

    Sorry, not sympathetic. Not buying it. I hope these people learn something, but I’m not sure it will be what we ever-optimistic chumps would like.

    • I don’t think there is an action they can take that helps. That is one of the terrible things about being an OW or OM. A spouse or ex-spouse can actually do something to try to make up for the pain they caused. They may not choose to, but they could. An OW or OM just can’t.

      • Diana, I think the only action a OW or OM can take to improve things is to disengage from the affair(s), leave, disappear, and never, ever betray anyone else again. That’s kind of a meta-improvement, I realize, and doesn’t help the betrayed spouse(s) a hell of a lot. but at least it would take one cheater out of the pool.

        And I wonder if the OW/M ever thinks anything they do is “terrible”.

        • When I confronted the downgrade for the first time, she said she was a terrible person and was SO, SO sorry. Yea, sorry enough to stop texting and calling him? nope. Sorry enough to stop sleeping with him? nope. No, in fact, she just pursued him even more. Like CL preaches here, ignore their words, and watch their actions. Words mean absolutely NOTHING.

          • Yes, two years post D-Day, after convincing our children to see him, my ex told them he knew he was a “terrible person.” But then he admitted he continued to see one of his AP’s– the one that had been our “family friend” — and the one who our children called “The Worm” post D-Day. Our young adult children realized he would choose his AP’s over even them, and decided never to see him again.

            The universe will deliver its own karma in its own time.

    • exrepeatedmeme,
      I so agree with everything you said! “sorry I unintentionally hurt you” is the bs OW in my situation said.

      “No real repentence, no sign of understanding, no action – just a lot of words.” Yes!
      But not the right words. Just a feeling that OW feels superior, she won (cough). But the thing is they don’t even recognize how effed up they are.

  • I started to write something snarky about “confused’s” grammar but stopped. It occurred to me if I attack her, all I am really doing is dumping the hurt I still feel from my divorce on someone who has nothing to do with me.

    I take issue with the heartbroken and pissed remark. You can be heartbroken he duped you when he married you. You are not allowed to be heartbroken when his wife decided to stay with him. That is not yours. You don’t get to own that.

    The only thing I can impart to “confused” is you know shit when it comes to “heartbroken”. The hurt, grief, and sheer rage you feel the day you find out that the covenant you made with another person was violated because he was unfaithful is unfathomable, which is the word I think you were grasping for in your letter.

    Apologize, forgive yourself, get the hell out, and do some good.

  • Chris, another fine response. Loved the list. At the same time felt that every one of those remarks can be directed towards all OW/OM as well. IE 1. You are a cheating jackass. Etc. harsh but the truth. And I recognize there may be some instances where it is not relevant. Confused, I don’t even know where to start. IMHO real relationships don’t exist simply because you are “texting” one another. Are you under twenty five? Get out and really date, meet his friends, meet his family. Do all this before you start planning the wedding. You are allowed to experiment and explore and date as many men as you need to before settling down but you need to become more educated. Therapy would be a great place to start. Okay story time, I worked with a young woman a couple years ago and she was very fun, outgoing, and attracted to every kind of disordered wing nut out there. She’d meet men everywhere and exchange numbers. While it was admirable how sexually liberated she was we all realized her relationships never progressed past having sex. She was a sweet kind giving person who wanted marriage, a home, and children. You know the fairy tale. But jumping into bed quickly without knowing who that person is is just going to lead to drama and heartbreak. Set some boundaries.
    I too get angry when I think of OW/OM. I know for a fact that my ex’s OW blatantly pursued him because he WAS married, had a good job, etc nauseatingly etc. Her second marriage began the same way. Wife present, affair hot and heavy, the travel! A swanky hotel room. Illicit sex! Flights back and forth! Cheaters, they get off on this shit, the drama! The secrets! The sneaking around! The lovers who are meant to be! Just like “the movies!” And real life. Reille Hunter and John Edwards, true love. Oh to be Leanne Rhymes! I am sure cheaters think How much fun this is to get something over on the Spouse! I must be a better…fill in the blank! And they go on to justify their CHOICES by telling themselves how sorry the MARRIAGE must be. I threw up for six months thinking about how deeply betrayed I was by the man I’d known for more than half my life. I know now that my ex had been sleeping with both of us for at least the last two years of my marriage. All the while ex could not make up his mind. And here’s the truth. Not one of us can compete with a fantasy. New hole or old. That whore did me a favor when she gave him an ultimatum. Hooray for me! Freedom and Truth and a Life lived with Integrity are wonderful. It’s still a process though and I am also careful to take care of myself. As should we all.
    Rumblekitty, Congratulations! I hope your future is everything you want and deserve. I had one thought, amid all the chaos, perhaps things happen because a greater world demands the gifts I have to share. 😉

    • Well said, Drew! You put into words my feelings exactly. I know that during the entire 3 year affair (they are still together) the H was sleeping with both of us. And I agree..we can’t compete with a fantasy. The OW is the dream for my H. He told me “she doesn’t bitch and nag me”. Umm…why would she? You don’t have children together. You really have no major responsibilities together. (Other than all of the money he dumped paying your bills and buying you gifts the last 3 years). So Drew..you are 100 percent correct. We cannot compete with the fantasy relationship they have built. We are the ones who have to deal with REAL life. My H and is OW are the ones that get to live in la la land.

      • I wonder what happens to these people when they remarry …. My ex married his OW within seven months of our divorce and of course before that he was spending our entire life’s savings courting her. I can’t even begin to wrap my head around all the lies they live. What a legacy. I know we will all live our lives with grace and integrity , we always have, but I must say we didn’t recognize what we were living with because we would never entertain those same choices. A while back the NY Times profiled a couple who were blissfully happily wed. This after their two previous marriages were left in ruins. I wonder how it all turned out. I just remember the children’s faces in the photo. They looked devastated.

        • Amazing how they love to spend money on the OW that should be spent on the family. And I mean PILES of it. When I did our tax returns for 2013, I could not fathom how much money he actually spent on her. Of the money he made, I probably didn’t even get a third of it. I was always running so short on money, trying to make ends meet for the kids and I..making sure the electricity and phones didn’t get shut off..while he was prancing around the OW showing her what a big man he is pouring money and gifts upon her. What a mother$%^&*(! asshole! When I look back I realize he didn’t get me gifts or cards for any occasion: My birthdays. Our anniversaries. Christmas. Oh NOW I see why..because you were buying all of those gifts for HER, and making sure HER bills got paid..so what if the wife and kids suffer? As for the lying part? My H should give lessons on how to master the art of lying! He did a damn good job for more than 3 years! His own brother was shocked to find out what had been going on. No one can believe that he was so expertly able to lie to everyone for years..not one screwup! Amazing how he could keep a double life under wraps! Especially considering that the OWs family was basically his family..way more than the kids and I were. Drew..is your X still married to the OW? How the eff do you stomach it? Looks like my H and his trailer trash OW are heading down the aisle, and it makes me want to puke bullets at them.

  • Whodathunk, ALL our stories are crazy. And 300 pages long. That’s why family courts have gone to no fault. When CL writes and publishes her book, perhaps our stories will be made into a movie. As so eloquently stated and often, ” You can’t make this shit up!”

    • More like Jerry Springer. Its all the same. Insert cheaters lie, OM/OW, betrayed spouse, cheater mix it up for 40 minutes. Its all very sad and so common in our culture, I’d like something new and more refreshing. CL does provide a service, a treasure trove, cutting to bone, eliminating years of therapy of second guessing.

      But our society has too much emphasis on free sex and we, our families are paying for it.

  • My first post-had to respond…Setting aside the fuckedupedness of the back story, who the hell is this OW to question the wife’s state of mind…

    “I think she might be taking him back and I can’t phantom anyone taking someone back after what she knows. She seen texts from him that said he fantasized about me on their wedding night and all the time , texts that said I was the best and texts that said I was nicer and cuter. I need to move on and I can’t . I’m not heartbroken just pissed. Is she stupid, desperate? I do feel badly for her because if she stays she looks like a fool in front of her friends and family and if she stays she will too since they got married in October. I can see maybe taking him back after cheating, but the entire relationship was based on a lie. I would never take him back after this.”

    Are you kidding me Confused…then why the hell are you so bent out of shape that you are writing CL….Unique my ass…I would say special, the special kind of special…OW’s like you make me want to hit something…he put a ring on her finger so obviously you weren’t cute or nice enough for him to spend that kind of money on you, that’s really all you need to know…He had you pegged…you are lucky…his wife, not so much…Carry on and let this be a lesson to you…worry about you and why you don’t have better boundaries. That starts with not lying to yourself anymore…you wanted him to pick you…it’s all there between the lines of your letter…

  • Whodathunk; It is so shocking to find out how disordered someone we made a decision to build our lives around really is. This SHOCK is probably the most painful thing I personally went through….that this person I trusted and built my life around was not in any way who I thought he was. You make yourself crazy trying & WANTING to believe him because it feels like your past & future depends on it. But then you find out they are lying to themselves too, and it is rather hopeless. I definitely tried as hard as anyone to untangle the skein….my shrink told me I had read more books than he had in his 40 years of practice! (about infidelity, NPD, borderline personality disorder, relationships, etc) Not that I am proud of it, was really stuck.
    I don’t think Confused is confused, I think she likes attention & probably shouldn’t be here. But I will bet it has given her an insight into the pain on the other side & hope she will not do this to anyone again. The Cheater is full of lies for everyone.
    Some of us have or whole adult lives invested in these people the OM/OW is worried about an investment of a few months or even a few years. Gives some perspective.

    • Regina..100% agree. I think that most of us have our whole adult lives invested in our spouses. In my case, married almost 25 years, together 26..more than half our lives. The OW, 3. I’m curious as to what you meant when you said “but then you find out they are lying to themselves, too, and it is rather hopeless”. It doesn’t seem my H was lying to himself..just me, as most of his loser friends knew about the affair from the beginning. In your opinion..what are they lying to themselves about?

      • Sandy, I know you’re asking Regina. Just thought I’d say I think on some level they know they are messed up and know what they are doing is wrong and lie to themselves that they can pull this off, that they can compartmentalize their different relationships, keep their family but get what they feel they “need” outside the marriage. They lie to themselves that there is nothing wrong with them, “everybody” does it, outside attraction is strong so it must be okay etc. If they didn’t feel the need to lie to themselves they would/could be open and not hide things so they know what they are doing is wrong, choices were made, it didn’t just “happen”-such a big cop-out. They know. They are such scared people that will not face who they are or face what they’ve become, the lowest of the low, a cheater.

        • Thanks, Hoodwinked! At this stage, I am 8 weeks from Dday, I don’t know what to think about anything anymore. The biggest thing that is constantly chewing at me is how they are sooooo in love, and meant to be together..puke. But he wants to cheat with ME on HER..so WFT? How is what they have this all-compassing love they supposedly have?

          • sandy, (Two different s(S)andy’s I’m talking to I think 🙂

            You’re very early on. Keep up distancing yourself from the crazy. Follow CL’s advice to not try to “untangle the skein” It won’t make sense. I wondered too. It’s false inflation of fantasy self they will have for a while. Believe me, reality will hit. I am over 2.5 years away from him just leaving to go off with OW-no choice on my part. It will get very satisfying to be in a good place and sit back and watch the show and just be meh as they encounter problems.
            “But he wants to cheat with ME on HER..so WFT?” Yep, cake–don’t do it, get away.

            • Oh I hope there isn’t another “Sandy” on here..I’ve gone by that name since the first day I found this website! If there is another one, I will change my name!

              • sandy with small s might be a more recent joiner since her DDay was eight weeks ago

              • I don’t know why..but my name comes up either “Sandy” or “sandy” and I don’t know what I’m doing wrong?? It’s the same me!

            • I got the whole “I didn’t mean for this to happen..I didn’t go out looking for it” spiel. Well bull! You CHOSE to have a 3 year affair instead of telling me you had feelings (lurrrve) for the OW, and then dumping me the day I found out. Not to say it wouldn’t have hurt like hell, but at least I wouldn’t sit here knowing that you have lied to me over and over for 3 years while you and your little flower were off having the time of your life. Hoodwinked..I hope against hope that reality will hit them! However, they’ve had this relationship for 3 years, so I don’t think that it’s still in that “new” and “sparkly” stage, do you? After 3 years I would think they’ve settled into a pattern, and there will not be any new reality hitting them. I would love to hear opinions on this..because it’s been bugging me big time!

              • Well good to know there is just one of you 🙂 Funny how your name comes up differently.
                Hugs to you about the horror of finding out how long the bastard has been lying to you. My situation was an emotional affair (all I have proof of), also put up with years of out of the norm? (I don’t think there is a norm myself) pornography. Porn addiction has same weird gas lighting that goes on in a real affair, deception, comparison which slaughtered my self esteem which was healthy when we met, withholding which made intimacy impossible. The EA was 20 years later with old girlfriend that was his true lurve. She was always between us from the start looking back, he had her on a pedestal and weirdly told me about her early on (should have been a red flag). Anyway I was devastated when I found out that she was the one and she and he actually planned to break up two families which affected 5 children altogether and be together within a matter of 3 months, as soon as it was convenient for her (vomit). As you know it is so, so painful when a person you felt was your best friend, even with said faults, tosses one aside so cavalierly. I felt like a zombie for the first months, crying, sleepless, just so shocked at the injustice of being treated like crap after all I felt I had already put up with. Sixteen years of living a lie since she was what he wanted all along or so I felt. I have never met her but did have interaction by email when I first found out and again about a year ago where she was both times condescending and accused ME of being dehumanizing because I would not acknowledge her by name. She had access to x’s email (since he hid things from me he wanted me to know that he was going to be different with her–that hurt too, I had tried so hard to get him to express himself to me and now he was going to be open but not to me, to her) so right from the start I felt like I couldn’t get closure on things with him without her being in my face. I’d refer to her as the woman or something, never by name. This was before Chumplady’s blog which I found a little more than a year ago or so. I now see the best is to just walk away from it/him. Anyway, sorry for the long story. I don’t know about x (he is now married to her) and her except that he said he is in therapy for himself now and my daughter refuses to see him which is huge, to have a child not want to see a parent shows him to be pretty bad off. He is in great pain about it. He also told me he and OW were in therapy together about a year ago. Doesn’t sound like it was all sparkly after all for them. I found out about EA after only 3.5 months.That was the sparkly time. Part of the excitement for them is the sneaking around. In your situation that has gone on a long while but it is only recently that the more real part is, because now you know, they won’t be able to get off on the sneaky part unless you give them reason to by showing that it affects you. So don’t give them ANY satisfaction. The sooner you disengage, which will be so hard as you are still in the disbelief stage, the sooner they will only be left with each other to deal with and it won’t be sparkly anymore. Meanwhile take good care of yourself and reconnect with the awesome person you were before you were forced to live a lie. Like all us chumps, you are a person who can’t fathom behaving the way the cheaters do, a compassionate person who didn’t deserve this.

              • Sandy,
                I am so sorry you are here and DD was 8 weeks ago? Try to distance yourself as much as you can, the more distance the more clearer things will become for you. No worries, their time will come, you see Sandy even though they have been having an affair for 3 years, it was hidden, they had that “secrecy high”, it was fun that it was their little dirty secret , the danger….neither of them had the reality hit them yet, not all the way…Hoodwinked is right, once the realities of life hit both of them than it will be a complete different story. You see if he didn’t get caught, their affair would’ve continued and he wouldn’t said anything to you or even leave you and keep eating cake….he only did that because now you know the truth, and he is guessing he has a better chance staying in a relationship with her than with you. He doesn’t love you and he doesn’t love her, the only one he loves is himself and himself only. He will of course continue having sex with you if you let him, then he will go have sex with her, in his eyes he will be like what a lucky bastard he is that he has 2 women giving him cake, but the asshole can go eat shit!! Just think, every time you question anything remember this, “the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence, because its been fertilized with bullshit and he hasn’t mowed it yet”..Big Hugs.

              • and, sure “he didn’t mean for this to happen” that’s why he kept accidently falling between her legs over and over for 3 years right, RIGHT….enough said..

          • Part of what makes him feel like the “Man” is having both of you. Pathetic, eh? He loves getting his needs fulfilled more than he loves either one of you. Whoever is making him feel “good” right now is the choice because it is all about HIM!! I had a hard time wrapping my mind around that. Why wouldn’t he care more about me? The memories, the years of intimacy, the proven track record?
            Did anyone hear that Russell Brand Oprah interview about heroin addiction? The addiction temporarily fills the “hole” or “void” inside the person. I think affairs are the same, but most of us learn to deal with our discomfort in dealing with life with such sidetracks. It is called growing up. And no, there is No excuse for destroying anyone else to get what you want, and certainly not your most important person. Russell Brand explains how once you are high, nothing & no-one else matters. It is whitewashed, bleached, an inconvenience to your high. It is interesting that some people are more concerned with what they do to someone in business or a stranger, but have little to stop them when it comes to those they are vowed to protect….spouse/children.
            Sandy, I feel so bad you are just starting this journey! With Chump Nation you should avoid many of the pitfalls. My heart goes out to you.

      • Hi Sandy; Right there with you and the 25-26 years! Seems like forever.
        Hoodwinked has me right when I say they lie to “themselves.” The lies they tell to themselves is how they got to this place in life. The first lie is this flirting at work is harmless, these fantasies I am having will never come to fruition, I sure look forward to seeing her, I will invite her out for one drink, I can handle myself. I’ll just kiss her once, I wonder if she’s a good kisser?, I’ll just fuck her once, I am curious, I wonder if she would do that again, there is no harm to Regina as long as she doesn’t find out, there is no risk to my job if no one finds out, I’ll use a condom, then there is not such a risk, oops condom fell off, won’t be needing that anymore, this whore is different, she’s a “nice” girl she won’t have any diseases, etc, etc, etc. And that is how flirtation turns into an affair due to lie after lie they tell THEMSELVES to rationalize it. At first, my husband told me some truths after D-DAY (things that rang true) that were very mean….since, the lies go to downgrading the experience of the affair if they now want you. It wasn’t much fun, the sex wasn’t very good, she was stupid, etc. I think they believe their own lies, or mine does!! It is a Motherfucking mind game on steroids! Makes your head go round & round. They must be empty inside. News flash! No whore is going to fill a cavern of character shortfalls. At first I thought the lying was for me, now I realize it is for him!! So that he can live with it! Once again, it is about them feeling, good, feeling, ok, etc. about THEMSELVES!! If it was about us and concern for us, the cheating would have never happened, If he ever told me a lie before all this, I don’t remember it (although after D-Day all he says is suspect)

        • You see if he didn’t get caught, their affair would’ve continued and he wouldn’t said anything to you or even leave you and keep eating cake….he only did that because now you know the truth, and he is guessing he has a better chance staying in a relationship with her than with you.
          That’s so true. After Dday I actually asked him what he would have done when she began pushing him for a committment. His answer? “I don’t know. To tell you the truth, I just hoped I’d never get caught.” So basically he would have kept this up forever, knowing that I was back here (OW lives in another state..he is an OTR truck driver..that’s how they met” taking care of the kids, house, finances and HIM, reminding him of his appointments, things that he needed to do, etc. On the other hand, he was with HER..the one who makes him feel like God’s gift to all women everywhere. The OW herself was chumped too..he told her the day they met that we were seperated and divorcing. A 100 percent lie..that wasn’t even a thought. She found out about ME the day I found out about HER, when I called her to confront her. She was sorry, she didn’t know, she was done with him. Yep, for 2 weeks. Then she was right back with him as though nothing had happened and he hadn’t dumped his wife and kids. So the thing that worries me is this..for her, she did NOT know their affair was a secret. He covered it up spectacularly! He blocked the kids and I from his FB, telling us he had shut it down. Nope. He just blocked us so we couldn’t see his double life. His friends either A) Thought that we were divorced too; or B) Didn’t care that he was having an affair. So for him, it WAS a big secret; however, for HER she had no clue that he was still married. But that knowledge didn’t stop her from continuing their relationship after he dumped me on Dday so he could be with her. So my question is..they obviously love each other, right? I can’t claim that the “secrecy” on her part was a turn on, because she didn’t know there was a secret to be hidden. But despite everything, they are together now.

          • I can’t think of anything as bonding as a secret or secrets. Especially kept from the one you are supposed to love. The OW/OM is on the inside now, and you are on the outside. Those secrets separate you from the truth. And of course you will never know if you got the truth & it will drive you NUTS!! Especially if OW/OM are from your spouses workplace, neighbor or some other almost unavoidable situation. That is why people here say RUN!! You will probably second guess everything he says forever.

          • Hi Sandy; My ex told me after he ended it, so I can’t say it would have gone on…..more probably with someone else. Another thing Cheaters don’t count on is that after the initial months of “can’t get enough” go by. they often see signs of a person they cannot trust, wants a commitment, or some other thing that is not attractive or threatens their plans. Plus that sex becomes “old” at some point too. Old cake grows mold!

        • Oh yes Regina, I thought at first he couldn’t tell me what was happening when it did because he didn’t want to hurt me. Though still very painful I could have understood that–someone not intending to but being seriously attracted to someone else and our marriage having gone stale, could have dealt with the reality that we either needed to work on things or separate. Then I thought he was cowardly and spineless to not tell me what was going on. It would be hard to admit to a partner a serious attraction to another, but still what happened next could have been respectful whether to separate or work on the marriage. But he told me he didn’t tell me because he said he knew I would make him stop. That made me realize how selfish and messed up he was. Nothing was about my feelings or me.

          • Sandy, I still think he is so messed up secrecy is a factor in how he is with her at least. Someone like him is not capable of love. Entitled narcissists just aren’t, they are too messed up. It isn’t love, what they have. Besides, it doesn’t really matter what they do now. Time to move on and concentrate on separating from the POS.

            • The “secret” holds so much power, it binds people together & AGAINST ALL OTHERS. The “secret” is a huge part of the excitement as well. I found this to be shocking that screwing me over was a big part of the fun! How immature!! I noticed once the secret is out, if the affair is over or almost over, it start to deflate quickly…. even if they still have their head completely up their ass.

  • Man Sara; That story is so effed up it is hard to even follow. I don’t do facebook, I call it “Fakebook” with most everyone trying to one-up others. Chances are, they are miserable.

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