Dear Chump Lady,
Let me start this off my saying I am chump.
But I wonder, is it ever a good idea to reach out to the ex-wives?
Three years ago, I met an amazing man through mutual friends. He was very attentive, sweet, handsome, smart, active… all the things a 24-year-old could hope for. He was very upfront about having been previously married and how much he loved his young son. He and his wife had just “grown apart” after 8 years and their unhappiness manifested through cheating on behalf of both parties (although I later found out that he had cheated while she was pregnant and with some of her “friends”).
This seemed completely logical to me as I had never been married and came from “It Takes Two to Cheat” Camp. I moved in shortly after we met and at first everything was great. Soon after moving in, I learned that his wife had only moved out 5 MONTHS before I moved in! Terrified that I had made a huge mistake, he justified our cohabitation by stating that he lived like a roommate with his wife for 2 years and really the relationship ended long before the move out date. So I stayed.
Soon I found sexting, odd Skype calls and received strange looks from women at our shared gym. Still I stayed. Meanwhile, his wife was having us investigated for child abuse (humiliatingly untrue). I offered to converse with her as I believed she had every right to know who her son was spending time with. She declined. She started following me to work, stalking me, and became abusive towards my then boyfriend (throwing coffee at him in front of their son). Yes, she was labeled the “crazy”.
One day, his car was in the shop so I lent him mine to pick up his son from her house. When she saw my car, she punched him in the face (in front of their 4-year-old son) and shouted: “That’s the bitch’s car who ruined our marriage!” The story completely shocked me. How in the world could she think that it was me who ruined their marriage? Divorce papers had already been filed before I even met her husband!
And then I was utterly chumped: I found out he had been fucking a friend of mine. The devastation was truly amazing. And still, I tried “to make it work” for a hot second before I packed up and moved out. After all this, we were on again off again before I found your site. Finally! Cheating explained! For the first time I saw him as the disgusting, sparkle covered turd he is and was able to go NC and stay NC.
When I consider the utter despair I felt when I found out he had been cheating, I know it pales in comparison to how his wife must of felt. Yes, she behaved badly and yes, her own cheating ways may make her a narcissist. I escaped this horrible man in 2 years while she dedicated 10 years, a marriage and a son… I cannot even begin to understand how that feels.
Part of me just wants to direct her to chumplady.com. She once said to the cheater about me,”I’m just worried that she’s a nice girl and that you’re going to do the same thing you did to me.” And she was right. Am I just being selfish? Do the ex-wives ever want to hear from the girlfriends their husbands chumped?
I can’t speak for all ex-wives. Before I get into whether or not you should speak with her, I want you to reflect on what you THINK you know about her. What you “know” is what he’s told you, or perhaps mutual “friends” have told you. But as he sleeps around with his mutual friends, how reliable do you think those people are? Point is — you don’t know ANYTHING about her, except that she was chumped by this asshole.
You don’t know if she ever cheated on him, you don’t know when she really moved out, you don’t know if she ever punched him or threw coffee at him (did you witness this?), you don’t know what she ever told the cheater about you — and you certainly don’t know the real time line of your story — starting with when he got divorced. He SAID he filed before you met him. He’s a proven liar. And his wife seems to have had a very emotional reaction to the fact that you moved in so quickly. What I’m saying is — you were probably the OW here. She’s not batshit crazy, you were probably one of several OW who broke up their marriage. Unfortunately, you’re the one she knows about. You’re the one who moved into her former home and hangs around her kid. So, yes, you’re the one she’s going to be fixated on.
I’m heartened to read you have such sympathy for her. So putting aside everything you need to admit that you do NOT know about her, yes, I’d say reach out to her with an apology.
I know you’d rather probably lead off with a “Oh hello, he screwed me over too” introduction. But make it an apology. “I am so sorry, I didn’t know. He told me he was divorced. Please know that he cheated on me too, and I know that what I’m feeling must be a fraction of what you’ve felt, as you have a child together.”
I believe you when you say you didn’t know. The guy sounds like a total manipulator and a con. But she doesn’t know that, she’s probably sees you as a predator who came on to her husband. (I’m sure your cheater has real crazy stories about you too). She worries for her son. So, come gently in peace. How she will react, I have no idea. But I think it’s worth a chance to reach out and compare notes.
Consider that he may have been goading her into the “pick me” dance throughout your relationship, especially at the beginning. Regardless of when divorce papers were actually filed, he could have been eating cake and promising her reconciliation. You don’t have the context to put her “crazy” in — just know that if he’s a serial cheating, disordered wing nut, he’s probably fingered YOU as the problem. And she probably believed it.
So tread carefully. Your story may come as some relief to her, that it wasn’t something about her that made him cheat. Or she may also have a hard time shaking the idea that you didn’t know. For future reference — it’s a DREADFUL idea to move in with someone you’ve just met. Please, please work on that picker and avoid the sparkly cons.
As for comparing notes with exes — it’s a very personal call, and I wouldn’t want to generalize. On the one hand, it’s not very meh. Best to put as much distance between yourself and the cheater and whoever they associated with. On the other hand, if you’re in the early days of trying to figure out WTF happened and who this person really is, a compassionate ex can help fill the picture in for you so that you (like them) can see it wasn’t you. This is who the cheater IS.
Early on, I tracked down my cheater’s second ex-wife. She was an absolutely lovely person and filled me in on a lot of my ex’s shady history. When I told her that he had said she cheated on HIM, she howled with laughter, and called out to her husband “OMG! YOU WON’T BELIEVE THIS!”
My cheater didn’t find two chumps comparing notes on him at all funny. After I confronted him with what I knew, that’s when he got psycho, flew into a towering rage, threatened to kill me, and wished his ex-wife’s baby dead.
So take that as a warning. If you’re going to reach out to the ex-wife, make sure you’re utterly NC with the cheater. You don’t want blow back. She can’t be NC with the cheater because they have a kid together. So consider how the news may go over and what the reaction might be.
That said, I tend to err on the side of truth. Tell her what you know, answer any questions she has, and then gracefully back out of her life.
I’m sorry you got chumped, Jordan. But the good news is you’re young and you learned a painful lesson without too many sunk costs. Shore up the picker, ditch the “it takes two to cheat” mentality (I’m assuming you did that), and stay the hell away from any “mutual friends” of his. This guy is toxic. Heal up. Better days ahead.
Ok H cheated on me with an old girlfriend he reconnected with on FB. Year and 1/2 yr later they are “broken up ” and he is love bombing me while I sit back waiting for this awful winter weather we have been having and taxes are done to move on. On an impulse I sent her a friend request on FB and she responded. That is as far as it has gone so far but if the oppurtunity arose I would love to compare notes with her. It is driving my H nuts that we are now friends.
Jordan it sounds like you have been through the ringer with this jerk, I’m sorry. I agree with CL that you just never know if what he told you really happened. In my personal experience, the narcissist gets off on making up stories to increase his sick ego boost within the drama. Although the fact that she followed you to work and stalked you indicates that her “instability and bad behavior” isn’t 100% manufactured by him.
I don’t know if I agree with CL that you need to offer her an apology. Her ex targeted you like the cheating predator he is, you fell for the sparkles like we all do, and you took him at his word because we humans tend to assume the best in people. I don’t think that makes you responsible for apologizing to her because he made you a victim. I think an apology is in order in these situations where the OWs are aware of what’s going on, aware of their OW status and continue anyway only to have their consciences catch up with them later or (ick) to find a conscious when the cheater dumps them. It doesn’t sound like you were involved in that way.
I’d stay away from it altogether. She stalked you and might be a little unstable. Approaching her could incite something you don’t want, and keeps you in some small way back in his orbit. I wouldn’t open any potential door by inserting yourself again. Just my 2 cents. Good luck to you!
I tend to agree. If you want to reach out, send a letter. It’s the safest way–you avoid any potential physical confrontation, and you can edit and re-edit and sleep on it before you send it. I love what CL pointed out–you don’t know a damned thing about the wife. And as Chumpaholic pointed out, the wife is showing signs of some instability–however normal or justified. The thing is, not all chumps are 100% virtuous. Sometimes sociopaths hook up with damaged people themselves. I would be very cautious about anything the coward liar says, and I would be cautious of the wife until you know.
Be honest with YOURSELF about your motive for reaching out. I get the sense that you actually feel very badly for the wife–the mother of his child, and I think that’s a good reason to reach out (again, by letter, not by phone or in person, or, if you’re able, by e-mail.) If your motivation is morbid curiosity, or to untangle the skein, or to provoke a reaction from the NPD turd, don’t do it. Remain NC with all the players.
Re: the knowing OW apologizing? I don’t ever want to hear from OW in my case. If she’s ever “sorry,” she can suck it. Her bullshit “remorse” is not my problem.
To clarify, I believe that you did NOT knowingly become involved with a married man.
The way I read this post Jordan certainly did know she was involved with a married man. While there is mention that “divorce papers were filed before I met him”, I don’t see that he was ever actually divorced, which is a really important piece of information here. (Why would he have to use the classic “living like room mates” line if he was divorced?)
And referring to his missus as “wife” throughout implies to me that she knew damn well that he was married.
Sorry, just a little sensitive about this this morning. I could be wrong.
Hahaha, there, there! We’re all sensitive about being chumped. I’ve resigned myself to being a little raw about it for the rest of my life–but also to not let it interfere with my happiness.
You’re technically right–he clearly was legally married, but they were separated. I don’t think Jordan inserted herself into an intact marriage–she’s not the conniving, scheming OW who lures “lurable” men away from their families. Her ex is a predator, and she got caught up, and believed his lies. I do believe she’s a young girl who was chumped by a sicko.
Thank you, Miss Sunshine! Naturally, I resent the idea that I knowingly chased after a married man. I did go on a few dates (never intimate) with a guy who told me he was divorced. My intuition started nagging at me when he went to Cabo with “cousins”. I did a little digging and found out that the woman he had supposedly divorced was also in Cabo. I promptly told him to “go fuck himself” and never saw him again.
Had I any idea that my ex-boyfriend was still married I would have also told him to pound sand. But as anyone who reads this blog will attest, Ego Kibble maniacs are master manipulators and prey on decent, empathetic people! My ex boyfriend replaced me in 2 days. I just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when he was seeking his next victim.
I agree, I don’t care about OW in my case and wouldn’t want to hear from her. I just want to be left in peace to move on with my life. The only person I might like to hear an apology from would be my ex, but I’m not holding my breath.
The apology isn’t because I think Jordan isn’t a chump and is a deliberate OW. It’s the sort of apology you give when you inadvertently caused offense. You acknowledge the harm, even if it wasn’t intentional. If she does want to reach out, I think humility is the proper spirit.
I agree. (As usual!)
Yes, that does make sense to me.
I agree. I would hate the idea that I caused someone a lot of pain even if it wasn’t my fault or intentional. I would want to apologize. I think it’s part of being a moral decent human being.
And I’m on the fence about people dating someone who is not yet officially divorced even if the paperwork is filed. I wouldn’t touch someone with a ten foot pole who isn’t officially divorced because in my experience it just raises chances for drama even taking infidelity out of the equation. But there are more than a few chumps who dated before their divorce was final AND sometimes divorces take years to finish. Either way she didn’t know he wasn’t being completely honest. Neither do all of the idiot women who are dating my ex. He just simply tells them he Is divorced. (not officially). If I ever date again it will be with background checks.
I agree! Why do women just believe the claim, “we are ‘almost’ divorced,” or “the paperwork has been filed,” or “we haven’t been together,” or “we’re not really married.”
WHY would anyone want to be involved with a man hot off a divorce, anyway? WHAT has he done to grieve the loss of his marriage? For failing his family, his children? HOW long has he been divorced? THREE years? FIVE YEARS? Long enough to be emotionally stable? TO be conscious of his part in the failure of the marriage? To be self-sufficient?
STOP BEING DESPERATE. If “papers have been filed,” he is in the middle of a bloody ugly brutal battle – and he has NOT signed the final papers and gone home to reflect on what has happened to his life. INSTEAD, he is just out there, hustling as fast as he can, to get a replacement — IF the papers were actually even filed!
STOP. Do you want to build a relationship with a man still immersed in the physiological, biological, psychological attachment to his marital partner?????
Get out of the MEAT MARKET!
Kristine, you just posted a comment in 5 things that keep you stuck with a cheater in which you say “It is very important to understand that YOU have been betrayed, traumatized, and YOU are NOT responsible for it.”
I believe that the poster did NOT know he was married, just like you did NOT know your cheater was cheating on you. I’m sure Jordan had red flags, just like you had red flags. And being a good person, you could not imagine someone behaving like that — duping you so completely.
If you’re going to judge Jordan, judge me. I met my husband weeks before his divorce was final, and we started a courtship (long-distance for over a year). We’ve been happily married going on four years. He had been married for 22 years to a serial cheater. I promise you, he does not “grieve” that marriage and he hasn’t had a “physiological, biological, psychological attachment” to that woman since his last D-Day.
This man lied about his status. My husband did not. Are you going to demand proof? (I didn’t.) All you can do with ANY relationship is judge their actions and see how it plays out over time — if this person is congruent in word and deed.
Relationships are not risk-proof. Yes, Jordan could do better due diligence and not move in so quickly — that doesn’t mean she deserved to be cheated on. Any more than you deserved to be cheated on.
I should add, my husband had of course filed for divorce when I met him, and was a couple weeks from it being finalized. And of course, I took him at his word on that.
I’m really glad it worked out for you, CL…you are one of the few, lucky ones. Most romances that start out on the tail of a divorce don’t work out and most women would do well for both parties to have a little more distance. I’m sorry, but that’s the way it is.
Also, if I ever date again, I intend to “check him out” and verify with the court that his D papers are final. Nothing like seeing cold, hard documentation. Maybe I sound cold and hard, but I’m really not!
I understand how people still smarting from infidelity (and some of us smart for decades to one degree or another) would insist on a strict-verification model of post-Chump-dom dating. But I would offer two points to consider in connection with such a plan. First, it’s hard to make this work in the real world. You meet someone. They ask you out. You say yes or no. Live moves forward. And at a fairly brisk pace. Often you simply don’t have enough information to “check someone out” in any thorough sense until you’re more than a few steps down the dating path. And do you think dating candidates will want to fill out a lengthy form before meeting you for coffee (Divorce finalized? But also: Paid up on child support? STD-free? Currently employed? Credit rating? Membership in AA, NA, WTF-A? All FOO issue resolved?)? Second, you can “verify” all you want and still not know. A LOT. I was married to someone FOR DECADES, lived in the same house, used the same checking account, raised kids with her, AND DIDN’T KNOW ABOUT HER SECRET LIFE.
All to say that CL is right and you have to accept a certain amount of risk in moving forward. Best plan is to let things play out over time. Over the course of a year or more you stand a reasonable chance of making a decent choice. Watch their actions, and draw boundaries if their actions reveal a problem.
Divorce filed. Divorce pending. WTF-ever. There’s going to be a divorce, is as good as divorced, for the most part. Otherwise, it’s splitting hairs.
I agree w/CL; divorce can take quite a while, depending on your jurisdiction, and not dating at all until it’s completely over seems unfair. Many divorces go fairly smoothly, the person is not in some kind of messy battle, and they’ve thought about and grieved their marriage and their role in its end, long before the final decree comes through.
I think that if someone is lying to you about being separated, about having filed, or about anything important, they will do other things that raise red flags.
If someone’s marriage (or other important relationship) is not over, whether in emotional or legal ways, that will show, over time. It’s TIME and their behaviour, and my gut, that will tell me who someone is, not what their legal situation is. (And in future, I will LISTEN!)
Thanks, Chumpaholic. I’m not sure what to do. I did see video evidence of her throwing coffee at him (he started video taping the pick ups and drop offs with their son). Not to say she wasn’t under extreme emotional distress. And I’m not in the early stages of trying to put the pieces together. I know he’s a lying, cheating, POS and I haven’t spoken to him in months.
That said, she’s been on my mind lately and I can’t seem to shake it.
I believe it’s because you are a sensitive young woman with a heart and a soul, and you genuinely feel a sense of empathy for this woman who was likely provoked by a disordered sociopath with an agenda. He’ll do anything to paint himself the victim.
Good God! To know there are people like him on this earth. Lots of them!! They seem so normal at first!
If you do decide to contact her, I’d stick to a letter or email I think. Safety in distance. And I’m glad you’re no contact with this guy.
Weird thing about people involved with cheaters is that, sometimes, even after finding out about their cheating/dishonesty, we still believe their tales about their spouse.
Now that I know more about how these folks tick, I would never accept any of the bad shit they say about their spouse.
All of these folks lie about this stuff to justify their cheating.
His wife may well have been a really good, virtuous person who did none of the crap he claims.
I’m also reminded of a youtube vid a while back where a guy video’d his wife having a melt down and she looked batshit crazy. It turned out he had provoked her unceasingly and then started the video just as she freaked out.
Am I being overly cautious here? Maybe somebody with some legal background can answer that….
You might want to be careful about saying “I’m sorry” in writing. I don’t know. But, depending upon what state you’re in, an apology could be interpreted as acknowledgement of some kind of guilt – i.e. for alienation of affection. You sure as hell don’t want that shit raining down on you.
For future reference, “My spouse is/was ‘like a roommate’ ” is classic cheaterspeak. It’s so common that it’s cliche. It’s a “get out of marriage free without getting out” card of sorts that cheaters use to explain away their behavior while married. By putting that out there, should any information come up about his behavior, he would just play the old “we were like roommates” card.
That phrase alone should send up red flags and trigger flashing lights and sirens.
Oh, yes! I thought the same thing! It’s verbatim from the handbook! Also, as mentioned, there’s “We just grew apart,” and, “The marriage was over for a long time,” and, my favorite, “We both cheated.” Uh huh. Sure.
Yes, this will be my dog whistle language when I finally get out there into the dating world. This will be an easy screening tool, to screen out the tools.
Don’t forget: “Our marriage is dead”
I heard most of those… I also heard that it was a ‘mutual decision’
That was news to me!
Don’t forget “We grew apart”…my Ex tried that one on me in the middle of our divorce negotiations. Mistake!
I made the point with our mediator present that I was in no way responsible for his decision to have an affair (the one I knew about) or troll CraigsList etc. .
“Grew Apart” is cheaterspeak for “No way will I take responsibility for my actions, and you can’t make me. So there. Nah nah boo boo.”
My ex prefers “She was keeping me from fulfilling my destiny.”
GIO, your comment cracked me up…..
GIO, mine told me I had, “Crushed his dreams.”
Which is galling, since I spend the entire marriage putting HIS career first. If he didn’t have the career of his dreams, it was his fault, not mine.
Oh Glad, he is fulfilling his destiny alright. I wonder one day if he’ll realize what that really is. How sad these men are if they weren’t so evil.
The day my STBX dropped the bomb he used all the usual excuses – “ILYBINILWY, I need time to think, I’ve thought this over for the past three years and talked to every one I know about what I should do” – (except me, of course) – “my friends have all told me I need some time alone, we’ve grown apart…..” My favourite though was when he told me accusingly “You haven’t really been married to me for years!” I suppose in his mind that made some sense, but I’ll admit it left me a little puzzled.
My ex went and saw a therapist at work, under the guise of work-related stress. (Allegedly.) Apparently she told him, in all her wisdom, “You can leave your wife without leaving your children.”
Perfect! Just what he wanted to hear!!
Also, you know, “Children are resilient,” so….
Walking cliches. All of them.
Yes, very sadly I have been told that too.
Or rather ‘he didn’t cheat on the children, he cheated on you’.
Yeah, right. Tell that to my son who won’t speak to me, or my daughter, who seems to be developing an eating disorder.
OMG! Mine said that too…well, he said, “I haven’t been married to you”. Still, same basic premise, right? I mean, I had NO idea we had even separated….since he continually put his hands on my shoulders, looked deep into my eyes, and told me he would never cheat….while he was cheating. (Never date/marry an actor, even an amateur one!)
Net net– they all have the same damn stupid playbook, it’s like a cheater’s hymnal.
Mine told me he had an epiphany that he can’t live the rest of his life with me but there was no other woman. Wonder why he tried to worm his way into my life (still subtly trying but still consistently ignored) a year later. So glad he had the epiphany. 🙂
What’s up with cheaters and their “epiphanies”? Is it just a big word they like to use? Six months before Dday, we went on a family driving trip to Yellowstone. It was a wonderful week, as far as I could see, a fantastic trip enjoyed by all three of us (me, ex and son). Well, after Dday, ex started telling everyone, and even wrote in his book about himself, that while on that trip, he had some sort of epiphany that he didn’t want to be married to me anymore. He sure didn’t mention that revelation, he continued playing the part of loving husband exactly like before.
I think it was around that time when he met the OW, however, so the REAL epiphany must have been that he could cheat with women just as easily as he could cheat with men. Anyway, it took him six more months, affairs with TWO OW, some threesomes, orgies and blackmailing a married guy who took part in one of the threesomes before ex saw fit to tell me about this epiphany.
Glad, must make them feel enlightened (and therefore true to themselves) when they use such a word. I am amused to know that your ex used the same term.
My fav excuse was ex saying I just sat in front of my computer all day…failing to mention that I work from home, LOL
On stalking, oh sister please; my ex accused me of stalking and I would bet my house his OW would say the same thing. I didn’t but they rationalized it and painted me a crazy stalker. During our false reconciliation I called the OW once and left a tearful message to please give him space. When he went missing a few months later and swore he was at his apartment while I was standing there and clearly he was not; I called his phone and hers several times in one hour and left no messages. A few weeks later, when I realized he had to be lying about where he was, I drove to the OWs house for the first and only time. I saw his car was there, I honked, waved at the OWs neighbor and left. He called me up angrily insisting I was stalking…so LW, how many times did you actually see this woman doing any “stalking”? Or did the sparkly guy convince you that’s what it was?
On abuse, oh sister please; My ex escalated from emotional to physical intimidation and abuse, eventually held a gun to his own head and nearly shot me. The entire time he was terrorizing me, even got me arrested for HIS abuse, he was telling everyone that I had abused HIM, eventually ramping that up to telling everyone I had abused him for years. The night he backed me into the kitchen and kept coming while I cowered and begged him not to hurt me? The next day he said I had come into his room and attacked him for no reason. The night he busted through my door and nearly put my head through a wall and I called the police? He said we were having a “date” and I went crazy and attacked him. One night he punched himself in the face, he was planning on getting me arrested for it, only reason it didn’t work was his hand was clearly bruised and the damage he’d done was clearly from his own fist. He rarely ever let anyone see his abusive side, only me, lucky me. As CL says, did you see her doing any thing abusive yourself? The cup of coffee maybe? What was the context?
I’m not saying the wife is in the same position as I was with an abusive asshole. I’m just asking that you consider the source of the information you have about the wife. My ex even convinced my best friend he was the rational one until he took his stories too far. For a while I had no support, was I a basket case during that time? Did I cry and get angry and say crazy shit during that time? Oh hell yes, I did, driving you to the brink of insanity helps abusers, they make sure you loose it in front of people while they are the calm and rational one in public/to others. But I never physically or emotionally abused my ex and if you talked to him today I am quite sure he would tell you many completely false stories about me. I’m equally sure the OW would corroborate those stories, despite the fact that I never even talked to her or met her. My ex told me many times his OW was afraid of me, there is only one reason she would be, his bullshit stories. That’s how abusers like it, to the outer world they are gentle and victims, in private it’s a whole different story.
Jordan after their “breakup” my H told me awful things about the OW and her daughter then proceeded to try and call them on her grandchild’s birthday. Trust that he suck and tell lies about you too. I think mine told the OW we hadn’t slept in the same bed for years Oh yeah right.
My ex left our bed to sleep on a mattress in the living room. He’d done it so many times before–because his back hurt. Our brand new mattress was too soft, he whined. Not, “Because I’m fucking someone else.” Or, “Because I’m distancing myself from you.” And, since he controls the narrative with the OW, he can say that we hadn’t “slept in the same bed.” Of course, we did lots of other things in that bed, and that’s why I had to have STD testing after Dday. I bet he didn’t talk about that part with her, and I bet he misses that part of us, if he’s honest with himself.
These assholes are all alike.
My STBX used to punch himself, hit himself with objects, and actually ran head-first into the refrigerator during an argument. I have no idea whether he told people that I hit him and stalked him, but wouldn’t put that past him. All I can do is continue to take the high road. I’ve never hit a person in my life, and anyone who is convinced otherwise is another victim, as far as I’m concerned.
Um, crazy much?
Oh my gosh, now that needs to go on you tube lol!!!! Sorry, but I would love to see him do that running into the fridge thing
I know. Honestly, I remember thinking hat nobody would believe my outlandish stories of I told them. Never mind that his actual behavior was outlandish.
*if I told them
They claim” stalking” when, in fact, many of us were merely Investigating after having been gaslit for a long time.
These abusive fuckers are often such idiots that they throw around terms like ” stalking” when they have no fucking idea how to define it.
This letter from Jordan also speaks to the issue that CL has covered, regarding should the Chump (wife of Jordan’s partner) contact the OW (possibly Jordan, unbeknownst to Jordan) if she has the presence of mind and the contact info to do so.
I found the last OW’s phone number in our phone bill and after putting two and two together, I called her. She didn’t immediately answer but I did leave a message in as classy a way as I could while holding onto the edge of sanity. I wanted her to know that I valued marriage and vows even if the both of them did not, and that I was very much in the picture and their affair was brand new to me. Lord knows what he had been telling her before and after d-day. In Jordan’s case, had her partner’s wife called as soon as she knew of her, the true facts of the infidelity and the cheater’s duplicity would have been known sooner and the course may have been altered for the better for all concerned.
Interesting point. But of course Mr. Sparkly could try and spin that as my batshit crazy wife is still in love with me and is trying to scare off my dates. Still, it would plant a seed! Or for the more savvy, have them running the opposite direction.
Why does it always work out we’re the batshit crazy ones? We never have any recourse or rights. I get the high road bit I do, but I’m starting to feel that their dishonesty is causing us to be somehow untrue to ourselves, taking away our voice for speaking up for ourselves. The fact that we have no recourse feels like we are letting them get away with everything, society enforces that because otherwise we are batshit crazy. Maybe I am batshit crazy.
Jordan, Are you absolutely certain that the divorce is final? Are you certain your ex-boyfriend has even filed for divorce? You may want to check records so that you have a better idea of what you’re walking into.
Jordan, I once read somewhere that if you have any sort of relationship with a person who is known to do a lot of lying, and you are trying to figure out what is a lie and what is the truth, you need to ASSUME THAT ALL OF IT IS A LIE. You really have no idea of what this guy’s marriage was like, or when it ended (or if it even did end), or what his wife is like or what really happened. The only things you know for certain is that he is a liar and a cheater.
I’m not sure about calling the wife, because you really don’t know anything about her at all. While she is likely just a chump, she could be dangerous for all you know. Perhaps send her a letter or email. That might be easier for her to digest.
I’m sorry you were taken in by a sparkly con artist, but as you can read here, it happens to the best of us. Be careful in the future, and best of luck to you!
“ASSUME THAT ALL OF IT IS A LIE” Thanks Glad. This needs to be a meme.
Jordan – as a STBX wife (divorce day can’t come fast enough now) I wouldn’t give the OW the courtesy of any kind of reponse. From what I have read here you are the OW. It may be best to just leave it be.
I spent 30-some-odd years cleaning up after Toddler-Boi, believing his lies in my touchingly chumpy naivety. Now that I have come so far, done all the hard work on myself, can see Meh on the far horizon, I have no desire to get dragged into the drama again. And that, IMO, is what you would be doing – extending the drama by asking the wife to get involved with untangling the skein yet again (I’m sure she has already wasted too much time thinking about all this already). And if she really is a chump, as you suspect, aren’t you continuing to take advantage of her to sooth your own guilty conscience by wanting to contact her? Who are you really doing this for? If I was her there would be no way in hell I would believe you had my best interest at heart. Think for a minute – really?
I understand that maybe you didn’t know the situation, that you trusted someone who couldn’t be trusted. Move on with grace. Learn from this experience and next time look for the signs of the disordered, leave as soon as you see them. Find a nice, single, not-disordered guy to get to know and take it slow next time before you get too involved.
Leave her be. You’ve interfered enough with her life, or at least with the life she thought she had. Time to move on, and be grateful for the life lesson.
I would agree with this, because it’s meh. But I also know from personal experience that I was able to move on a lot more decisively and learned a lot of horror back story from speaking to my cheater’s ex. Still took me longer than it should’ve to end it definitively, but it was proof positive that it wasn’t me. This is who he IS. To every woman he gets involved with. I didn’t know that then. And this guy’s chumpy (ex?) wife may not know it either. She may think Jordan is the only OW, the one who broke up her marriage.
At the end of the day, this woman isn’t Jordan’s responsibility. But as she wants to reach out, I think there is a way to gracefully do that (via apology), and then back out of their lives totally with NC. If doing any of this puts Jordan at risk, yeah, forget it.
Again, though — so many cheaters spin the tale that my ex is CRAZY and unstable and deranged! to keep chumps from comparing notes. Helps them control the narrative. If they’re crazy, gee I wonder WHY?
I can see that more knowledge can be better, that confirmation that you aren’t the only one can be good thing. If Jordan does want to extend an apology, a letter would be the way to go, something the wife can take or leave (keeping in mind that a letter is permanent, though, so it has to be carefully worded, particularly if there is no divorce yet).
I guess it’s because I am quite a bit older than Jordan, and lived with my cheater many more years, that I don’t need any confirmation that Toddler Boi is a dick and that I am well done with him. And I am painfully aware that I have limited time left on this planet to do all the things I want to do, and I have no more time to spend on this particular project!
I think this is very true about controlling the narrative and sucking in the next chump. My ex told me his last relationship ended because she had issues with abuse and he just couldn’t be abusive (bullshit) when we first got together. Then sometime over the years that changed to how he just fell out of love with her, she wanted him to stay. Then after the last cheating was exposed that changed again, he said she had cheated on him… It’s all a load of crap. I happen to see her a year later, she worked at the Vet’s where I took my cat. The real reason they broke up? He lost his job right after he moved in and spent a year living off her while watching TV and doing nothing so she kicked him out. I believe her.
It’s amazing how much they lie and rewrite history. I have heard that my ex tells people our reconciliation failed and marriage ended because he and I had “an agreement” that I would work full-time and financially support us while he tried to become an actor. Needless to say, there was NEVER any such agreement. He also conveniently leaves out the parts about his endless cheating with men and women both, but blames me, saying I “reneged” on our deal, and “blindsided him” with divorce papers.
I have no doubt there are all sorts of people out there believing this bullshit and thinking I’m an awful person. Oh well. If they get close enough to him, they will eventually learn for themselves.
“Leave her be. You’ve interfered enough with her life, or at least with the life she thought she had. Time to move on, and be grateful for the life lesson.”
I agree with exrepeatedmeme.
Ask yourself this, Jordan. In HER shoes would I be inclined believe ANYTHING the “OW” said? (Probably not.)
It is enough that you have discovered who he really is and are taking steps to rectify this situation. Your behavior over the long term will show her who you really are…ah…were.
You don’t have to “prove” anything–to EITHER of them. All you need to do is take care of you.
I was pretty much a basket case after dday and made some pretty mad phone calls to ex (and once to final OW) but quite frankly, he was fucking with my head in a major way, I was without a decent support system, I had two kids falling apart and my ex was off having fucky times with final OW and barely noticing his kids becoming wrecks overnight.
And yep, final OW has told one of my kids that she was afraid of me and couldn’t understand why I was so angry since ‘the marriage was over anyway’. Sigh…he’s an asshole and she’s stupid.
Jordan, I guarantee 90% of what this asshat has told you is bullshit and the rest was a reaction to his mindfuckery. It’s how these people operate and if you read through this website you’ll see that sadly your story is not unique, his actions are not unique, none of it is unique. They’re worrying alike and all seem to follow a same basic script, with some minor variation thrown in for fun.
Send the wife a letter and then step away from the whole mess. I almost guarantee he was playing you both at the beginning and she had no idea her marriage was over until well after you met this idiot.
“Sigh…he’s an asshole and she’s stupid.” LOLOLOLOL!!!!
That is a beautiful summary of so many of these relationships. Thanks for the laugh. I needed it today.
My pleasure. Laughter really does help. 🙂
As the ex-wife, I asked myself if I want an OW to contact me, and I don’t. Is it because I’m “meh” and don’t want this type of low-life drama in my life? I think that’s where I’m coming from. Life is too joyous and peaceful that I definitely don’t want any contact from any OW. It’s like the dead coming out of its crypt (goosebumps).
Not sure, though, if those who are not yet in meh may view this differently.
Jordan, get as much truth as you possibly can as CL and the rest have suggested. If you feel guided to contact her (do sit and ponder on your decision), a kind letter may be an option with your contact number so she has the option to contact you or not.
You are indeed very fortunate. You learned a valuable lesson at such low cost. Learn from it and trust that your Mr. Sparkly sucks.
I am not to meh yet, so I sometimes see glimpses of it on the horizon, and I would not want the OW to contact me. They are still together, but even if they weren’t I do not want to have to ever talk to her. It’s bad enough that we work in the same field and know tons of people in common, and there is a chance of running into them at various events from time to time… It’s already happened and it will happen again I’m sure, but my hopes are to steer very very clear of her (and them), even if we are at the same event. BUT….the OW in my situation knew he was married and did it anyways. So that is a notable difference…
That makes sense. Who needs to be in touch with someone without a soul?
I may be in the minority, but I would love to talk to her – not to untangle the skein, not to yell at her. She knew he was married so she’s in the wrong as well, but she bought the sparkly turd too. And has been subsequently chumped as well. I’ve spoken to her once before I was aware of what was going on. She seemed like a nice albeit insecure and kinda lost. I kinda would like to hear her take on it. I will never reach out to her – but if she apologized to me and offered to talk to me, I may take her up on it. I think a nicely worded letter giving that offer isn’t out of place – as long as you, Jordan, are comfortable with it. Shee may be very angry but she may be like me and just want to sit down with some tea for a chat.
Personally I don’t want any contact from an AP or new partner. I don’t know what good would come of it. Plus, to me, it sends out the message that dipshit is worth talking about and comparing notes. I suppose to each their own on this one.
The bottom line with these cheaters is that they lie. They lie to spouses, kids, co-workers, families, friends, etc. There’s no bottom of the barrel for a cheater. They keep whatever narrative they need to hold onto alive. I don’t know that conversing with an AP or his new girlfriend is going to change or help my view that both of them suck. I’m happier with absolutely no contact. My goal is to untangle my life from my cheater. I don’t know that anyone involved with my cheater is going to help me with that. I tend to separate myself from his family, friends etc and for me, this helps me move forward.
I get that you want to help Jordan, but I’d suggest leaving it alone. You’ve learned your lesson. I hope you heal.
Yeah, no way would I want to hear from the OW. I have nothing to say to her. She knew my EX was married. I was at a company Christmas party and I noticed this woman behind my husband and I in line acting all giggly wiggly. That was when I was ‘introduced’ to the OW. Of course I had no idea who she was at that time. She shook my hand and gushed all over herself about how ‘nice it was to meet me.’ I have nothing to say to that skank whore. I mean really? You shake your AP’s wife hand and tell her that? How low can you stoop…
After I caught my EX and her fucking at the Econo Lodge I went and talked to one of his ex wives who I knew and really liked. We met for coffee and she told me how she had caught him fucking his work study student in their marital bed. I’m telling you, this guy has gotten away with murder and he can always find a skank woman to buy his sparkly turd lines. I didn’t know my Ex had been married five times, he told me I was his second wife. I thought he’d only been married to the woman I mentioned here. I did tell his new skank woman how many times he’d been married and how he cheated on every one of them but of course I just acted like the bat shit crazy wife. If I had it to do over again I would have went NC immediately. I don’t think this site was around when I was going crazy. I didn’t know what to do except react.
After my dday, I went and contacted an old ex-girlfriend of his from years ago that I knew, and hearing more of her/their story FROM HER really helped me. Their stories were pretty much the same, but hearing how hard it was for her to heal and move on and how shocked she was was somehow…encouraging. Probably because she successfully rebuilt her life and found love again. And it’s clear, he did almost exactly the same thing to her (but they were not married, and they both were young). Hearing the parallels helped me see that is really and truly is him (and the way his brain/heart “loves” people) and not me. And she even said that too after I told her what had happened…
Gio, I had a similar encounter. She was lurking at my father-in-law’s wake. When I noticed she was sitting alone, I went over to introduce myself. Scumbag husband was behind me in a shot! When she told me who she was, I (not knowing she and my husband were fucking and planning his exit from our 18-year marriage) actually thanked her for being a supportive coworker to my husband during his father’s illness. And she looked me in the eye, continued to hold my hand and gushed, “Oh, you’re sooooo welcome.” Ugh.
ChutesandLadders, did they end getting married?
For some reason my XH won’t marry skank woman although they’ve been together several years. Lord knows he’s the marrying kind. It would be his 7th stomp down the aisle. (He loved me soooo much that he insisted we renew our wedding vows on our anniversary with a real minister and everything after he recovered from a life threatening cancer) Five months later I caught him and skank woman fucking in Econo Lodge. How do you ever get over this kind of betrayal?? And of course it was him but how did I go so wrong marrying this guy? He love bombed the hell out of me that’s for sure. I honestly thought God sent him to me. Hahahahafuckinghahaha.
No marriage that I’m aware of, but both LOVE secrets, so who knows? They do live together and go to Mass every Sunday. When my son is there on the weekend, they take him in the clothes they bought him for church.
I’m sorry, I’m having a bit of a meltdown at the moment. I’ve just got off the phone to my 18 year old daughter who is away at Uni. Her Dad has just been to spend the day with her & he took the OW with him.
Up until 2 days ago he has never admitted to being with her, and he still has not mentioned it to me. Since I threw him out last May, he has – according to him – been living with his sister, and has never stopped begging me to take him back. I do not want him back, not in a million years, but it was hard listening to my daughter telling me about her day.
She said it was weird seeing him holding her hand, which I think he could have had more respect for his daughter and kept his hands to himself.
I don’t know why it has got me so upset to be honest, what’s wrong with me? I suppose I don’t like the OW spending time with my daughter. How do I learn to deal with it?
If your daughter is anything like mine, he’s already blown it with his deceit — grown up daughters still want a father they can look up to and admire. Don’t worry about the OW and your daughter. It’s not like she was out looking for a new mom in her life and golly, gee, Dad! Thanks!
When I was grown up and married, a found a snapshot of my father with his arm around another woman. I knew nothing about the context of that photo, it could have been an old college classmate for all I knew, and I was inflamed beyond words. The reaction surprised me. And I wasn’t incensed on account of my mother, it was like a jealous rage all my own. If you’re not Mom’s, your Mine! Behave!
My father and mother were married 45 years until he died. There was never any drama in their relationship. I just can’t imagine what I would have done if he had been screwing the gal at the perfume and lipstick counter at his pharmacy and divorced my mom and busted up our family. I can’t even mentally conceive of it.
My ex moved out 6 months before I discovered the girlfriend. When I did, my then 15 year old daughter called him out on it. “If you’re going to have a realtionship with her, you can’t have one with me” Which blew him away, because as you know, the OW always wants to bond with the abused waifs of the “batshit crazy” ex wife, so life will be just one great big group hug. Doesn’t work that way.
My daughters relationship with her Dad has suffered greatly, as he blamed her initially for me kicking him out. He had used her phone to ring OW and when OW called back later, my daughter innocently asked me & her dad if we knew who it was.
He flipped and said some unforgivable things to her. She couldn’t speak to him for a long time.
Now shes much better with him, but I do believe is still terribly disappointed. Still, she wants a relationship with him, and it seems if this includes OW, then so be it.
I do kind of wish she had refused to see her, but it’s her decision & I’ll have to get used to it.
That’s a pretty low thing to do. Reminds me of the tape of Alec Baldwin trashing his own daughter over visitations. My father never spoke to me like that. Where do they get off?
My daughter (21) is making baby steps in the direction of contact too, but on her terms. A couple of dinners (that he pays for) that don’t include the OW or half-sibling, and conversation that respects everyone’s boundaries. i.e. he doesn’t get to play his version of the past or bitch about me. Must be interesting since those are his favorite things to talk about. Oh, wait, I guess it’s all about Jesus and what his church is doing these days. How fascinating.
She misses having a dad in her life, and the simulacrum just doesn’t really cut it.
I’m glad your daughter is taking charge, good for her. My daughter has never really stood up to her dad & told him how she feels. Maybe she doesn’t bother because he wouldn’t listen, I’m not sure. When they began talking again, he never asked about her, how she was or what she was up to. He would just tell her how he wanted me back, and would even ask her to talk to me on his behalf. I’m not sure she knew what to do or what to say. He would say ‘you want me & mum back together don’t you?’. She found it too hard to just say ‘no!’, which is what she really thought.
On my D-Day, I found out that my ex had been cheating on me for 15 years, with 2 co-workers and “family friends.” Once I kicked ex out, he decided he loved one of the AP’s more than me and was going to marry her as soon as they were each divorced. Our daughter was 18 and a freshman in college, and this AP had made a special effort to befriend my daughter before D-Day. (My daughter, apparently smarter than me, hated AP even before D-Day and told me and her father that she did not want the woman around).
After D-Day, my ex and this AP thought my daughter would accept their relationship.” When my daughter did not, the AP actually lectured my daughter via Facebook message that one day my daughter would understand and would “find the love of [her] life too.” (These pathologicals truly live in their own world, don’t they?)
My daughter tried to see her father once after that, and he admitted to her that he was still seeing the OW. Daughter thought about it afterward and decided that she wants nothing more to do with him. She feels he is a very sick person.
These pathologicals blow up their lives all by themselves. They are truly evil and pitiful all at once.
HEA, big hugs to you.
I had something like this when my ex-wife after I divorced her. She moved her last affair partner into our old house and eventually married her. My kids were there half the time at first, more later.
You’ve got to draw a boundary here. Tell your child, “You need to have a relationship with your father but I cannot, so please don’t talk to me about your father and his girlfriends. It’s awkward for all of us, and if you need someone to talk to I’ll help you find a good therapist. But I can’t be that fill that role for you, just as I can’t ask you to fill that role for me. Instead, let’s let our conversations be about you and me and what’s going on in *our* lives.”
Nomar, I have thought about asking her not to talk about them to me, and you are probably right, but I kind of feel that I want her to be able to talk to me about anything. I don’t know.
I have that problem as well. We all need to talk about what is going on in our lives and it’s difficult to say ‘that part of your life is off limits when it comes to talking to me’. I told my younger one that it’s ok to talk to me but I will also say when I don’t feel comfortable. It works for us. The kid gets to speak but I can shut it down gently when I don’t feel like hearing any more.
Thank you, Nord, HappyEverAfter, and Nord, for your comments. I am struggling with this now. And still do not know quite how to handle. My ten-year-old is going with her dad for a week to see the OW and her children in another state. My daughter wants to be able to talk about them all but it upsets her if I make a face when she mentions the OW. I don’t want to shut my daughter down but I can’t stand it when OW’s name comes up. She understands why I am upset but doesn’t want me to be upset anyway (completely understandable). Inner psychic turmoil for me. Horrible.
I keep getting advice, too, for making the OW off limits for discussion but it had the effect of shutting my daughter down. I don’t want her to clam up, to feel that the only place she can talk about everybody is at her dad’s. None of my divorced friends were cheated on so they lack the experience to really get how difficult this is on both me and my daughter. I sometimes feel like my insides are being clawed up.
Meant, nomar too. Thanks, nomar!
Oh, Happily– my deepest sympathies! I have a (nearly) 22 y.o. daughter at college (Uni) and the Jackass Ex does things like send her valentine’s bouquets… WTF? If he visited her with a new bitch in tow I would go ballistic (as far as I know he is partner-less at the moment; I don’t dig too deeply).
But take comfort in knowing that kids this age are really adults on many levels: they see right through the bullshit, and your ex has only dug his own hole a little deeper by doing such a crass, thoughtless, obnoxious thing. Clearly, he has no concern about how his daughter will feel about him showing up with a new squeeze, after treating her mother like dirt.
These guys just don’t get it. One of my nieces (married to a delightful Englishman, btw) refused to let her father visit, because he wanted to bring the OW-ho-wife, and niece would have none of it. For 10 years. Her father is so deluded he thinks their relationship is “improving.” Idiot.
This is but one story I could tell. While I believe it is truly a pity that the children of these creeps have only empty shells to look to in one parent, do know that the kids get it.
My own daughter said (no prompting) “he’s pathetic”. She would just as soon have nothing to do with him.
namedforvera, thanks, you are right, she does see through his bullshit. She did tell me that she was glad me & her dad are not together anymore, as I deserve someone better than him. That was nice to hear, I do deserve better. I can hopefully find better, but she unfortunately cannot ‘find’ a better father, which she deserves too.
Yeah, it would freak me out, too, but your daughter already has been made uncomfortable by seeing her father with another woman. She even said so. It IS weird!!
The thing with these guys who bring the OW along to meet the kids at uni (seems to be quite common, really) is that this visit, which ordinarily would be about bonding between father and child, is instead–wait for it–ALL ABOUT THE CHEATER!! This visit has been hijacked by what is REALLY important to him, and that is rubbing everyone’s noses in his new life. I don’t think your daughter will too fond of that continuing. Your ex just put distance between himself and her by doing what he did. Be there for your daughter, but don’t editorialize for her–let her explore her own feelings (briefly, so you don’t vomit). How disappointing, after all, to think you’re going to spend a day with your daddy, only to have a stranger third wheel tagging along. AWKward!
He is continuing his bullshit with her still, and you are so right, it’s all about him. He told her that ‘I may look happy, but if your mum changed her mind and had me back, I’d be there like a shot’. He says this while parading about holding OW hand and telling our daughter how well she treats him. Ugh, I’m so angry right now.
I think I would ask her not to tell me what her dad says. Your ex may be using your daughter to get to you, so not discussing him would remove his ability to do that.
Since the day ex managed to get the kids to meet OW he has had pretty much zero time with them without final OW in tow. Everything is about final OW, who is very much the ‘memememememe’ type. Which should backfire on her at some point, as ex will play the ‘focus on the woman’ thing for awhile but he’s not going to accept playing second fiddle for too long, that’s for sure. heh.
I’m so sorry for you and your daughter. How painful and confusing! My ex introduced our 3 year old to the OW just four months after he left- without telling me first as the therapist told him to and he looked me in the eye and swore he would. But…”just as friends”. How nice. I guess that doesn’t make him a pathological liar.
Pathological liar. Yes, mine too. He lies about anything and everything, I cannot understand it, things that just don’t matter, it’s not normal. They tell you one thing, & do another.
I was the ex wife that was contacted. By more than one woman.
My XH remarried (to a nice woman not OW) and he filled her with all sorts of ‘my ex wife is crazy’ crap – and I knew it. I’d get these upset calls / emails from his 2nd wife and I would just say, “I’m sorry you’re upset. What you’re hearing from him is not what happened/said/etc., that isn’t the truth, but you will need to speak to him for clarification”. I purposely didn’t escalate things. She was a nice person, good to my kids, and I knew how he was playing her. They split up once, she called and said OMG – I told her she needed to leave him and it wouldn’t get better. They reconciled but ultimately divorced. She sent me an email afterwards saying essentially, “I should have listened to you and I’m sorry that I acted hostile toward you.” Neither his 2nd exwife or I ever revealed to him that we’d communicated throughout their marriage. We still keep in touch.
She finally left him because he got a GF pregnant – and preg GF promptly moved in, had a baby with him, and drama, drama, drama. Break up, reconcile, engagement, order of protection – repeat. She called me once (I’d met her but never spoke to her previously ) and I told her “take your baby and run”. She reconciled two minutes later, and I get a batshit crazy call from him “for interfering and telling lies, blah blah”. I simply said, she called me and asked my opinion and I gave it to her. I won’t discuss it further” and hung up. However, I didn’t take subsequent calls from her.
Heard from 2nd exwife a couple years ago, and his 3rd wife called her. 2nd Exwife told her, “take your child and run”. 3rd wife did.
I’ve no regrets – when asked I told the truth. What the women did with it was their choice.
Wow! WAY too much drama. Your ex never changed his stripes, did he?
Red, I could write a book!
Ex – change stripes – LOL!
I agree with CL when she says it’s a personal preference type of thing. When I broke up and left my ex-fiancee after finding out about his affair, his “crazy” ex-girlfriend reached out to me early on and offered her sympathy. We never got along while he and I were together, but after he was out of the picture, I found that she was actually a lovely person. We started talking, I found out a lot about his criminal past and his past abusive behavior (both physical and emotional). Obviously, he didn’t take our friendship well and tried to drive a wedge between us, even after we got off the topic of him and started talking about other things. He tried everything from accusing her of “hacking” into his e-mail and sending out those e-mails soliciting meetings with craigslist men and women to saying she was dangerous and bipolar. Long story short, he didn’t like that I was seeing him for his true colors and having his past exposed, and it was a good thing he doesn’t know where I live or it could’ve gotten ugly. It helped me “trust that he sucks” but not everyone is going to have the same experience.
I NEVER want to hear from the bimbo who colluded with X to break up our marriage. She is trash. Whether X fed her a truckload of bullshit about me or not, she knew she was breaking up a family. So fuck her.
If she ever did develop a conscience, I would hope the weight of her vile behavior and choice to put her happiness above my children’s sense of security and happiness crushed her. But since I know that will never happen, I’ll just have to take comfort in knowing she lives with a deceitful asshole who will always put himself first.
While I thought I married an honest man of character, she on the other hand, willingly chose to plan a future with a known liar and cheater. Why on earth would I want to hear from someone so utterly stupid?!
Expert passive-aggressive gas lighters can elicit responses that make even the sanest person appear “crazy.” And the gas lighting doesn’t even have to be about cheating.
The viral video that the above article refers to [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akusckt_P_Y ] got tons of, “psycho bitch” feed back on youtube. It was even dissected by a few in the “manosphere” at one of their more vitriolic woman bashing sites.
I’ll grant you this woman had a humdinger of a childish meltdown and she should have been old enough to know better and to handle it differently….. but I can also see how someone who is not aware of the cumulative repressed rage resulting from being the victim of passive-aggressive obstructionist behavior and constant needling can take along term toll on one’s sanity and ultimately cause and explosion.
Listen carefully to the dialog at the beginning. She gets her chores done during the week so she can decompress on the weekends ( IRL she’s a nurse anesthetist who makes three or four times what “Bubba” does), and if you observe carefully you can see that not only is the man not intimidated by her, he is actually enjoying himself and escalating it.
Yep there’s a lot more to that story than the video portrays!
I tried to post these comments above under Chumpalicious’ post with the reference to some people perceiving x-wives as, “bat-shit” crazy. I think it went into moderation (because of the links) and emerged down here.
Point being people can sometimes act bat-shit crazy after having had their last GOOD NERVE being sawed on unmercifully for years by manipulative a**holes. Or as we sometimes say in the trade, “Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean someone is not really out to get you.”
I saw that video and thought the same thing: the guy set her up.
I agree Arnold, there was way more going on than her wanting to go to the lake.
Fucking A , right, dat. I know we have opposing views on this patriarchy oppression deal, but it was pretty obvious that this guy was not in the least troubled by the way his wife was acting and was , in fact, reveling in it.
I came across that vid on the “Shrink4men” site and , immediately, got a bad feeling from it.
There are a couple other ones from a guy in Texas who seems to be subtly baiting his wife , that demonstrate the same dynamic: Guy with a video recorder, very calm, posing provocative questions and a seemingly nutso wife going off right on video. But, we do not know the back story and how she had been treated. We do not see what was going on right before he turned on the camera leading up to the reaction.
But, here is the deal: guys have been facing the same shit for a long time too: a goading, manipulative wife who provokes the hell out of them, then calls the cops when the guy gets upset. We see this all the time in divorces where one spouse sets the other up for fake DV charges.
My first wife was intent on provoking me, so she could spread her story about me being violent or abusive. I sensed this and kept up my restraint, but it was tought.
I had a detailed description of the body of one guy she was with given to me by her one night. I was derided, and ridiculed etc . But, thank God, Icould sense what she was trying to accomplish and walked away.
Whitney Mongiat was bullied by her narcissistic, bully of a husband. He had promised to take her to the lake and then had stopped for fast food and had picked a fight. He was laughing at her as she became upset. What a fuckwad. BTDT.
This is a tough one. I think I would want to hear from the AP if he/she truly did not know.
In my case, the 3 OW knew exH was married, so I had no desire to talk to them, but I wish they had contacted me as things would have ended sooner. With #1, I was gaslighted and believed there was nothing to it…. #2 was a probable EA with a colleague, and I wish I had taken her up with her “I do not know how he spun it….”
As for #3 , she tried to Facetime me and I declined it as then husband and I were literally having a conversation at that moment about the marriage, and I did not recognize the number. That one I wish I had accepted as it would have ended the limbo and I would have found out 6 weeks earlier that there was an OW.
I would have liked to have heard from a repentent OW.
Why? Because after I found out that my best friend was not that, after his betrayal ripped away the last denial as to what a selfish ungiving person he really was, everything in my life became unreal. None of it was what I thought.
So some honest communication with OW would have helped the ‘this way up’ arrow start pointing in the right direction.
However, she KNEW he was married and had children. She would stand behind him when I phoned and must have heard there was no conflict. So she is a boundaryless immoral idiot.
I’m sorry Jordan but I think you were thirsty for a man. You turned a blind eye to his marrital status and willingly believed whatever negative comment or story he told you to alleviate your conscience. If I were his wife, there wouldn’t be anything that you could possibly say that I would believe. At best you would be viewed as a desperate woman, bottom of the barrel woman. Who moves with someone after 5 months? Stay away!
Young people who believe it’s love move in after 5 months … and love-bombing narcs have ways to make that sound perfectly reasonable. BTDT, when I was much younger and much more foolish!
Maybe if you are 18 or 20 but at 25? Moving in with a complete stranger or just an associate of friends. Doesn’t sound like the type of friends that screen potential mates. At 5 months he could be a serial killer. At 18 you are fighting wars, have a few years under your professional belt, and have been on the dating scene for awhile. But I guess her friends figured it was ok to sex up this dude after all it wasn’t like they were married…or she- Jordan- slept with this married man, so let’s spread it around.
She needs to fix that picker and drop some friends.
Should say …..At 18 you are fighting wars, but at 25 have a few years under your professional belt, and have been on the dating scene for awhile.
My ex and OW moved in together after knowing each other for less than 4 months. My young adult son said, “Even my friends aren’t that stupid.” Of course, it’s been downhill since for ex. OW represented herself as someone she is completely not, especially with her financials (her moral values were obvious, so no lies there). Ex is now stuck with a high-maintenance, unemployed OW who refuses to seek gainful employment. The karma bus keeps on revving up.
My XH married (3rd time) a girl of 21 that he’d met 5 days before, when he was 44. The story I got from my kids is this>>> she was the checker at the grocery store where he bought his lunch every day.
Destiny Message #1: They noticed one day that they both had a Superman tattoo (common interests?)
They got engaged on day 3 (not date #3, but day #3)
On morning of Day 5 (otherwise known as “wedding day”), they walked up the steps to the courthouse and got cold feet, so turned around and went out for a cup of coffee to figure things out.
Destiny Message #2: While sipping java they noticed the paper place mat had local ads. One was an travel agency ad which said something like , “Just do it! Life is about being impulsive.” Which was a sign from God and back to the courthouse they went. Superman tattoos and all, on Day 5.
OMG, it’s true – you really can’t make this shit up!
Seriously? That is insane! Are they still married?
I am still confused about the “It Takes Two to Cheat” Camp? Am I missing something something here? Never heard that one before :-0
But overall I echo the sentiments of Exrepeatedmeme, I wouldn’t want to hear from you – let the poor woman be and whenever you hear the expression from a guy “she was batshit crazy” again – there’s a good chance you ought to run for the hills. Life lesson learned, I feel more sorry for the Ex Wife than you and there were two comments in your letter which irked me:
“When I consider the utter despair I felt when I found out he had been cheating, I know it pales in comparison to how his wife must of felt. Yes, she behaved badly and yes, her own cheating ways may make her a narcissist.”
As CL said how do you know she cheated? Knowing all his lies you still wrote this, – that she behaved badly- did she?
And this one
““That’s the bitch’s car who ruined our marriage!” The story completely shocked me. How in the world could she think that it was me who ruined their marriage? Divorce papers had already been filed before I even met her husband!
Well Jordan, look at it from her POV ……………to her it did.
We have all been there so move on and count your blessings you found out this harsh lesson pretty early on in life, leave the XWife licking her wounds and rebuilding her life in peace, unless you actually want to know how your Ex is doing which by contacting her you would find out as they still have a child together.
Just my opinion, always the cynic nowadays, can’t help it, apologies in advance……….
To be honest I felt her letter of remorse to be fake and a scam. She admits this guy lied and decieved her so what truth or enlightenment can she bring? Absolutely nothining! He didn’t wife her, she has no kids, she knew the guy was still married, but she chose to live with him anyway. She wants to share a comraderie where non exist.
Fix your picker or you are in for some serious heart ache down the road. The dating and courtship phase is suppose to be care free, this guy starts handing you turds right off the bat. You are to young to be saddled with a man that has so many problems, so much drama! If I could I give you a good swift kick in the seat of your pants if I thought it would help you not to devalue yourself.
When I was 24 anything over 30 was old and this man had a suppossed ex and a kid….who needs built in baby mama drama! And now its just too easy to get back ground information on the net. Too many single, gorgeous, available, unattached men in your dating pool, why be involved in a wannabe gigolo-old- too old for the club, garanimal dressing, backwards baseball hat wearing, can’t dress, not hip to your music, embarrassing old fool. Stop being thirsty!
Hahaha…you just described my ex! When I kicked him out he went from a middle aged guy who dressed casually but well for his age and station in life. These days? It’s the backwards baseball hat, hoodies, jeans, sneakers, listens to ‘her’ music (think Rihanna, etc) and generally ‘talks hipster’. It’s funny but also sad. He looks like a git and I can only imagine what her equally young friends think. So bizarre and my kids just shake their heads.
Last comment, its just sooooo yucky. This guy was so cheap, you slept in the same bed as he and his wife. He disrespected you so bad, he didn’t provide you with a clean an clear love nest. At least if you are going to play that type of game get paid!
Further more last comment maybe…. you’ve stated his wive has physically confronted ex. You cannot predict how she may respond since the physical aspect seems to be a part of their relational dynamic. You may get punched, slapped, or have hot coffee thrown on you. Stay away!