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Apologize to Your Cheating Husband, Says Quack

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If people ever think I made up the Reconciliation Industrial Complex, that it’s a wee bit overstated, consider this misogynist piece of crap running today in the Daily Mail. “Want to win back a cheating husband? You must first eat humble pie,” says “respected” marriage therapist Andrew G. Marshall. (The “G” must stand for gaslighting.)

The Daily Mail tells us this is the “most unexpected” marital advice we’ll ever receive! Oh I doubt that, Daily Mail. This is really just a slightly more unvarnished bit of the same ol’ same ol’. How chumps need to make the marriage a good place to be. How our inadequacies drive people to cheat on us. And how gee, it may seem hopeless, but if we just up our kibble game, we can WIN A CHEATER BACK! (Second prize — an all-expenses paid trip to Darfur! Third prize — a lifetime supply of rancid meat!)

So what do you got, Andrew? Lay it on me.

Here, I show how, with a bit of honesty and several servings of humble pie, women can begin the process of reviving the most unsalvageable marriage and win back the love of a cheating man.

Oh yum. Humble pie. Tastes distinctly of shit sandwich to me, but when you dress it up like pie that sounds so much nicer. I can make people — even really despicable people who are abusing me — LOVE me? And you’ll sell me the secret? Tell me more Andrew!

The first step towards recovery needs you to commit to change. And while you’ve probably said you are sorry a million times before to keep the peace, have you made a full apology? This is one that acknowledges your unhelpful behaviour (eg taking him for granted), accepts your responsibility (you’ve been so wrapped up in the children you’ve forgotten to be a wife as well as a mother), expresses sorrow and a determination to change, and is sincere.

So it WAS me all along? It wasn’t blameshifting? Goshdarnit, I’m the problem? You’re entirely correct that I never made a full apology to my cheater for paying off his debts, and financing his career move, and marrying him in front of assembled friends and family, all the while he was cheating on me. Yes, I was unhelpful, it’s true. When he threatened to kill me, those protection from abuse orders really fucked with his job security. Did I forget to be a wife? I was only a wife for six months when the mistress called, so I must’ve really sucked at that wife thing. She predated my relationship with him by about 20 years, so apparently I was sucking at wife and motherhood back in my teens. But I’ll work on my sorrow about that, Andrew. And my sincerity. I promise.

In particular, do you need to apologise for nagging, a habit that could be destroying your relationship?

“Nagging is the repetition of unpalatable truths,” said Baroness Summerkill. Did I speak unpalatable truths to him sometimes, such as “YOU’RE A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR!” and did I insinuate that he needed to stop that? Yes. Yes, I’m guilty of that. The truth did destroy my relationship. That’s on me.

Acknowledge that it must make him feel constantly criticised. Promise not to nag again and that he should say something if he catches you doing it. Though it is tempting to add an explanation for your nagging, it can sound as if you’re excusing yourself and therefore lessens the power of your apology.

Ultimately, if your husband thinks you spend the majority of your time complaining, nagging or getting angry, he will feel that all the joy has been sucked out of your relationship.

Well here you’re really on to something, Andrew. My ex-husband DID complain that I was angry, and that’s why he wasn’t sorry about his cheating. It was my anger — my anger at his cheating… that made him cheat. Um, that’s still confusing to me, but I don’t want to sound like I’m excusing myself, or lessening the power of my apologies for being angry. I own that was angry. Like gut him with a fish knife angry. Or stick-his-head-on-a-pike-for-the-village-to-see angry. Or implode into a state of paralzyed depression angry. I only did the last one, but I thought about the other two.

My cheater however was everything you said he should be, Andrew. Every time I nagged him (stated unpalatable truths), by God, he caught me at it and spoke up. He said shit like:

  1. You should be medicated. I’m okay with that.
  2. How can I be sorry when I feel defensive?
  3. You need a beating.

I know he said these things, because I wrote them all down to remind myself to leave him. I didn’t have the benefit of your wisdom back then, Andrew, to wit:

Don’t ban contact with the other woman.

You write that women need to “stop being so controlling” because then “he’ll feel distrusted.” Yeah, I know it’s crazy, but I don’t trust people who cheat on me. And my spouse having side dish fucks brings out the edgy bitch in me. I get all high maintenance and demanding when that happens. But it could be the PMS too. You know how we edgy bitches get. Never know what’s going to set our hormones off.

Don’t complain if he moves in with her.

Yeah, I didn’t get to try that.

Meet her yourself!

Or that either.

Andrew, for years I wondered why he was such an asshole. Why he felt the need to cheat on me. But today you explained it to me in a way that makes total sense… if I’d had a lobotomy.

“Why has he fallen out of love with you? You put the children first… Your sex life has lost its spark.”

I didn’t have a kid with him, and we had a lot of sex. He was never not cheating on me, as it turned out, so apparently my sex life must’ve lost it’s spark around date #4 or something. I don’t know. If sex was so dull and lifeless, why did he ask me to marry him? Can that be his fault?

If your husband feels that you don’t love him, he can start to feel entitled to look elsewhere.

Yeah, turns out he was never NOT looking elsewhere. But I guess I never told him just how much I cared.

One partner – probably your husband – is feeling ignored, a second-class  citizen in his own home.

Only probably your husband? Are you sure about that? I think you think it’s my ex-husband that was feeling like a second-class citizen. But Andrew, I assure you if there was any sitting on the back of the bus, gender apartheid going on — it was me folding that bastard’s underwear, and cooking his dinners, and not questioning his spendthrift habits. He got the bigger cuts of meat, the best parking place, and sex when he wanted it.

But I didn’t cheat on him. So WTF Andrew?

You mustn’t panic. This is the worst thing you can do. More marriages end because of a wife’s panic than a husband’s determination to leave.

Now you tell me! I could’ve made that creep leave if I’d panicked? I couldn’t get him to leave me the fuck alone! Instead I was all strong and stiff-upper-lippy and left him on the sly. But if I’d lost my shit more dramatically, he would’ve been more determined to leave me? Good to know, Andrew. Women’s panic ends marriages. Not infidelity, folks. Panic.

So who is this Andrew G. Marshall? Apparently he has no educational credentials whatsoever, his therapy education being reduced to time spent at some charitable organization called “RELATE.” Yeah Andrew, and I’m a “journalist,” because I print flyers and stick them under people’s windshields.

I don’t think Andrew G. Marshall is real. I think he is an elaborate bit of performance art. Consider the evidence. He’s inflicted his books on the public in 15 different languages, one of which is “Make Love Like a Prairie Vole: Six steps to passionate and plentiful sex.”

And he’s a self-described playwright, author of such famous works as “Coffee Cantata based on the music of JS Bach which toured coffee shops in West Sussex.”

The coffee shops of West Sussex! Christ, that’s as good as La Scala. This has to be satire, right? He’s having us on, or taking the piss as you Brits say.

andrewmarshallquackAnd can this picture be for real? Andrew G. Marshall looks like Voldemort with British dentistry. If I were to play armchair shrink, which I can because Andrew does too, I’d peg him for a malignant narcissist. A pathetic megalomaniac who can’t get laid, Prairie Vole-style or otherwise, so he has to blame women. For their anger, and not loving him enough, and their stupid, big mouths. 

Idiot publishers give him a voice, because he taps into the infidelity zeitgeist, which isn’t radical but the same old blame the victim shit that’s been around forever.

Somebody please keep in him the coffee shops of West Sussex and out of the newspapers. The world doesn’t need any more cheater apologists.

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • This twat again? Whilst in my nightmare, I bought his book ‘I love you but I am not in love with you’ or some such title. Full of very useful stuff, which works IF YOU ARE NOT INVOLVED with someone with a character disorder, who is intent on eating cake. This book and others like it, and forums which encouraged me to think in terms of mid life crisis, helped keep me stuck in a very abusive situation for nearly two years.

    What I needed to hear? Very boldly, very bluntly – HIS ACTIONS ARE ALL POINTING TO THE FACT THAT HE IS FUCKING SOMEONE ELSE AND PREFERS HER TO YOU. That is what needed ramming between my Chumpy eyes, not how I could do better to manage a situation that was out of my control, and that I needed to protect myself from.

    I went on to Amazon and wrote a review of this book, and warned prospective buyers that if they hear this phrase or anything like it, HE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR and that this is really not the book for them.

    He is an idiot, and he doesn’t understand the 4% or so of people that we have to deal with.

    • “The first step towards recovery needs you to commit to change. And while you’ve probably said you are sorry a million times before to keep the peace, have you made a full apology? This is one that acknowledges your unhelpful behaviour (eg taking him for granted), accepts your responsibility (you’ve been so wrapped up in the children you’ve forgotten to be a wife as well as a mother), expresses sorrow and a determination to change, and is sincere.”

      I DID all this. All it did was earn me more humiliation, and the comment from my IC ‘you and he have taught me a lot about affairs and insult to injury, and your toleration for insult Patsy, is extremely high’.

      Sorry, Andrew: it doesn’t work and you shouldn’t give people the idea they have any control over someone else’s way of being. However, it wasn’t all a waste of time – for my personal growth. I am so not the person I was, I now know where I end and other people begin, I know what I am responsible for and what I am NOT responsible for, and paradoxically feel a lot more sure in myself than I ever did looking to a narcissist for love and affirmation.

  • I am furious now. I feel personally let down by this man for the second time! Subjective and projecting, but there are desperate women out there that will buy into this BS.

    • Yes, but did you see the headline for another article in the middle of his? The secret to staying together for 72 years is summed up in 2 words–“Yes, dear.”

      Perhaps if more narcs invested in the spirit of Yes, dear, they would learn to lay off AP…

  • Oh ! All I have to do is apologize, well ok then. Guess I owe my STBXH for all those whores he fucked at fire-events in the woods (aka. don’t send your kids to the boyscout camp in ashford ,ct. trust me on that)

    • Good to know.

      Did you notice he talks about apoligizing to “win” your husband back? Because yeah, there’s a real prize you don’t want to miss out on…

      • So sad that this moron is associated with West Sussex! I lived there & trust me it’s not full of idiots like him! 🙂

  • It’s not like passive aggressive people don’t elicit nagging in their spouse, or anything like that.

    He’s reading lines from the cheating101 book…

    • And again, the point isn’t about whether the chump is responsible for cheating due to their behaviour. The cheater CHOOSES to detach instead of attach. You want a marriage to work? You have to work on it. Lying and cheating is the antithesis of working on your marriage.

    • Absolutely, coralf. The whole PA thing brings out the nagging, and then they get to say ‘oh, look, she’s such a nag’. My ex was the king of this shit and still is, even for the tiniest things. Luckily I don’t have to deal with it much anymore, but sadly my kids do.

      • My X knows that I am very spiritual, so he changed you’re ‘nagging’ to you’re ‘preaching’. He knew this would really wound me (and get me to stop asking him to get a job, or ease up on the quarts of Jim Beam, or stop talking to Asshole Phony AP). Apparently this is called preaching!
        Stupid me, I thought I was allowed to have a voice in my own relationship. Over 35 years, he tried and tried to get me to stuff it, roll over, and just play dead. Too bad I was raised in the 60’s and 70’s, and I’m what we used to call a Women’s Libber! I never did what he told me to, although I was certainly willing to discuss the issue. That wasn’t what he wanted, but he did love all the drama of trying to dominate me.
        That’s what I don’t miss.
        Go dominate someone else!

        • Ex did this weird passive aggressive thing that meant if I brought up anything it was turned into ‘you’re trying to tell me I*m a bad person!’. Which I wasn’t, I simply had something to discuss and yep, sometimes it meant I wasn’t happy with something. And I felt I had a right to discuss whatever I wasn’t happy about. But his way of shutting that down was to turn it into a discussion about me being mean to him. Or something. i don’t know. I was so mindfucked that by the end I don’t think I brought up much at all. Unhappily for him all that buried and repressed stuff came out with a boom on dday. heh.

          • Got that too. Never wanted to open up about real issues that affected our lives from large to small. I’d get “I have nothing to say…, I have nothing to say….” One sided conversations when you are trying to clear the air or gain an understanding like any caring adult would engage in, were just too much of a bother. Or he would whine “Stop making me wrong,” “…you always make me wrong.” I was always accessible, always open to dialogue and any kind of emotional and physical intimacy. Later, I began to reason that he wasn’t a good conversationalist or communicator, UNTIL I overheard conversations, read e-mails, etc.. that he had with his OWs. It was all made-up, bull-crap, fantasy stuff, but he was DEFINITELY making a grand effort to perpetuate his grandiose persona.

            • Ha! SeeTheLight, I thought for decades that X just couldn’t speak kindly to me, or be considerate enough to go do something fun that I liked to do, just treat me with normal niceness, since he always said he loved me! No, he was usually mean, aloof, or critical of my interests.
              Then, I got to see how he interacted with his whore/neighbor. Oh, he was sooo sweet and kind to her, they even cooked together! (Something he never did with me). They really are cruel and insane! There’s just no way to explain it.

              • Yes, Coralf has brought up sthing really seminal: the absolute refusal to address anything in the marriage, to give us enough value that we were worth hearing or attending to.

                Basically, Chumps, it was f-ed from the beginning. I have to forgive myself the extent of my denial, speckling and hope. Because, if I had REALLY faced how little he cared for me? – I would be divorced in 3 years, and my second two children would not have been born. It is what it is, and we come to the realisation (in my case the mallet between the eyes of long term AP) when it is time for us to do so.

                And yes, we are focussing on my unpleasantness (my angry and hurt reaction to not being heard). That is fine. As long as I know, that in the future if I am not heard… 3 strikes, and I walk. I am worth MORE than this! Lesson learned!

              • PattyToo & Patsy- You’re right. It is the seminal moment when you realize that despite all your marital, financial, career support, etc…, the cheater can’t even reciprocate a “normal niceness” or a civility you might afford any man on the street. Then the heartbreak of later realizing your cheater is more than capable of it and even lavishes it on the new kibble supply. And finally, the frustration of hearing an outsider looking in who offers the trite “oh, he’s just not that into you” or “eat some humble pie and ease up on the nagging” without any recognition of the malignant pathology behind the cheater’s behavior or an encouragement to the chump to know your worth and leave the loser. Thank goodness for CL and Chump Nation.
                Marshall is just another lightening rod of harmful misinformation.

            • Wow..that’s my STBX to a tee! Never would share anything with me, but would share every little tidbit of his life with his friends. Whenever an issue came up that he didn’t feel like discussing, he’d shut down. Refuse to talk. And if we were on the phone (as he’s OTR) he’d hang up on me and wouldn’t answer his phone when I called for sometimes days. Would never lift a finger to help me with anything..household chores, kids, you name it. Here’s the kicker: From everything I hear about him and his white trash whore..they carry on conversations for hours on end. He’s apparently the nicest, most romantic guy on earth with the skank. And he spends hours and hours with her kids and grandkids..more time with THEM over the past 3 years then our own kids. WTF? Where was that guy when we were married 25 years? This is when I do question..what is it about her that he opens up and tells her everything? And wants to be with her family more than ours?

  • EWWWWWWW!!!!! That came after I read these loathesome pearls of marriage wisdom but then you posted his photo too — another EWWWWWWWWWW!!!

    OK, can I take this article one step further? Let’s say that you so desperately want to save your marriage that you actually follow this turd’s advice. You swallow your pride and self-respect and you apologize to your abuser for being so flawed and undeserving of love and respect — shit, of just some simple friendship — that you’ve brought all of his abuse upon yourself. Then what? He forgives you of your imperfections and poof! the marriage is whole again? He becomes a trustworthy, loving, supportive life partner and friend who has your back and would be the one to DEFEND your honor, instead of defiling it?

    I’m sorry to say that in the early years of my abusive relationship, I was so naive and desperate to regain what I thought “we had” that I did the apologizing thing – the turn myself into whatever he needs thing – the “pick-me dance” thing, as CL so brilliantly describes it. Only to live through even more years of the same self-esteem crushing abuse that was routinely doled out.

    Here’s the answer to a lying, cheating person – dump their ass and run like hell! There’s NEVER ANYTHING WRONG with you that could create such despicable behavior and disrepect for you, your love and your friendship. If an apology is owed to anyone, it’s to YOURSELF for allowing such an ass-wipe of a person into your life in the first place. Generally, our senses can smell a rotten fish. Trust your senses and throw it back! Plenty of better fish in the sea.

    • I did just that. You know what I got? He kept right on cheating. All an apology does for these fucks is vindicate themselves and justify what they did. I own my crappy part of the marriage, but it did not warrant him cheating on me. Try telling his crazy ass that. Bwah!

    • I apologized, too, right after dday, because the RIC told me to.

      In true chump fashion, I was heart-felt about my imperfections in the marriage. Did no good. He kept right on cheating and being a mean jerk.

    • and WHY would he suggest meeting the AP? Should you apologize to her too? WTF, I cannot believe this is real.

    • Finally Done,
      I tried it too. Apologized. Danced my ass off.
      I “won” even bigger lies and continued gas lighting. Yippee. Also gave him time to steal things and talk mess on me to whoever would listen. More yippee.
      Now, at total n/c I don’t physically shake with anxiety and get to actually sleep at night instead of listening to him snore!
      This guy is going to make someone feel guilt they shouldn’t and it is disturbing to say the least.

    • I am coming around to this way of thinking. I must be a slow study. I did the pick me dance five damned times. Today I messaged my NPD CH that I would not consider his words since we both know he is a liar. I told him that I would only judge him by his actions. (He has already broken it off with his former mistress turned senior citizen emotional AP whore.). He has to show me that he is serious about our marriage through his deeds. I have already changed the beneficiary for my life insurance and I delayed putting him on my retirement. If we split, he will be left with only his minimum wage job and then Social Security. He has no idea that I have an attorney and have everything set to roll out. I am only going to stay with him if he does the work necessary to win me back. I would like to believe he will try but I don’t expect much. I am learning how to stop being a Chump!

  • Really, what this (very unlucky-looking) guy is saying is: apologize, pretend it’s your fault when we all know it’s not, and then just shut-the-fuck-up. Hey, if I wanted to, I could do the pick-me dance and eat a shit sandwich all by myself. But hey, thanks for the insight buster!

    • Igor.

      Takes dead pieces of marriage, stitches it together, throws a lever, and…

      “Eeet’s ALIVE! Masssster, eet’s ALIVE!”

      • hoohoooooooohhhhhhooooohhhhhhh!! CITS!!!!

        Love that!! Exquisitely awesome analogy!!

        (almost) spewed my Little Debbie cake all over ‘puter screen!

        Forge on!!!….

  • Utter mindfuckery.

    In hindsight, I can really see the desperation when cheaters start talking like this, like they’re trying to convince themselves too, that it isn’t their fault. I let my ex narrate our relationship for too long, and I won’t ever do that again. I let him frame the debate, even with friends and family, when I should have nailed him to the wall for his BS.
    I really think that the only way they can live with themselves is if they tell themselves tales to justify what they do. Any real insight on their part would be devastating.

  • Yet another reason to steer a very wide berth around The Daily Fail! I wouldn’t even wipe my derriere with that paper.

    That said, it was opinions like the lovely Andrew’s that kept me playing the “pick me” dance for as long as I did. It all turns on the premise that a husband & marriage are two prized possessions in a woman’s life, which on no account should she abandon. Cheaters only get away with the shit that they do, because they’ve smelt the societal fear of “being alone” and use it to their advantage.

    However, when you break it down being alone is ALWAYS preferable to being with a lying, deceitful, disrespectful cheater.

    • I agree. Also, I can’t believe I clicked on the link to the Daily Mail. I used to live in the UK, and within about a week, I realized that the publication, while not quite at the same level as the American publication, The National Enquirer, was of the same ilk.

      The problem is that a lot of people will read and believe these tabloids because, hey, it’s in print, you know!

      Overlooked in Andrew’s attempt at persuasive writing is the role of communication. Apparently, in the world of Andrew, if you feel your spouse isn’t talking to you, you can go have an affair. Then, when your spouse discovers the affair, you can start talking about how the two of you weren’t talking, so you were entitled to go screw the first person with low enough morals to let you. In fact, having an affair INCREASED your communication as a couple!

      That you should go to your spouse before shagging the local sleeze and say that the two of you need to spend more together time just doesn’t enter into the picture. Don’t get enough sex? Screw the next door neighbor, and then explain that you needed more sex. Don’t bother about bringing the issue up before you have the affair!

      This article simply perpetuates the mindfuckery of the cheater. Sheesh!

      • and, kb, it completely overlooks what really drives an affair, which is the ego boost and the excitement of new sex.

        Quotes from my H: ‘she was a new c t and a new pair of t ts’ ‘She told me how much she likes me, and how funny I was’ ‘She was just a fantasy. I never looked to replace you’.

        In this concrete, shallow, completely void thinking, I think he was telling the truth. Wow. That our family and my children’s world was blown up, for THIS.

    • It also goes to the idea that women are somehow less important than men – our needs, our feelings, our deserving of respect, etc. I wonder if the troll Andrew would say the same thing if the situation were reversed.

    • I would rather read the Daily Mail than the Gruniad, which is so removed from mainstream thought that it ONLY survives from all the public service advertising (bbc, equation, media) it receives and ‘hoi polloi’ publication profits from Auto Trader. Bring back Maggie. If any of these up themselves institutions were exposed to the market place they would be extinct or have to drastically reform in months. ‘The Vision of the Anointed (self-congratulation as a basis for social policy)’ by Thomas Sowell nails them beautifully. In that book, EL, you would discover that Mail readers are known as ‘the silent majority’. Funny that is empirically supported: the Guardian circulation is: 193,800. The Daily Mail circulation is 2,4 MILLION. So feeling superior, can put one out of touch.

      Away from unseemly British spats and back to Chumpdom. If you read the comments, nope, Mail readers aren’t fooled for a single second. This ‘counsellor’ is being slated.

        • LOL…I have also been told in Louisiana when they say “Isn’t he/she precious” it means that they are the ugliest baby alive…….

          I’ve also heard the same about Bless Her Heart…same here as Texas….

          • I thought she was equating him to Gollum on LOTR—precioussss.

            I emailed just his pic and a link to his Prairie Vole Sex book to a friend. She nearly screamed on the phone and had to delete the email, she said he looked so creepy. It took guided imagery to help her recover.

        • Yeah…I have a (wonderful!) Texan SIL. Also chumped. Left Texas for MA, however. Recently seen pining for chicken fried steak. 🙂 I guess beans & boiled beef just doesn’t cut it, somehow.

          • My personal favorite coined, I believe, by Judge Judy:

            “Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining!”

  • Never heard of this guy before, but it’s frustrating that he writes stuff like this.

    I don’t feel any motivation to win my spouse back when he tells me he is with someone else and I hate that others will then blame me for not doing the pick-me-dance.

  • to allmy friends. ironically there is a place for a certain type of amend. After 55 years and after putting 1000 miles between us, Art contacted me.he wanted something of course. my intervention in his sons anger at Arts ruthless behavior. I complimented Art on his financial reliabi;ity (true0 and said i hope i never hurt you. This took him off balance. this can be done ONLY after putting as much distant as needed depending on how really destructive the cheater is all best Muriel

    • Good for you Muriel! That’s heaping coals on the head of your enemy, though, not apologizing for something you didn’t even do. What you did was effective, and from a stance of strength and safety. The other is inviting more abuse.

  • Yea the poor dude looks like he was bashed with the ugly stick a few hundered times. But hes clueless just wait until she pulls the ol ” I just needed that connection,,,, and its YOUR & the KIDS fault for not giving me that connection,,,,,,,as the lies pile up …….Fuck that pencil neck,,,, another dope that needs a Louisville Slugger to the back of the head wake up call . Sorry for the anger just one of those days.

  • Ok, so he recommends letting Cheaterpants and OW move in together because:

    “His ‘true love’ will be tested for the first time. Slowly real life and day-to-day domesticity will intrude into their fantasy. He will have to deal with her surly teenage son. She will discover all his nasty habits. It is not exactly Romeo and Juliet.
    As long as you don’t drive them together – by abusive phone calls, being unreasonable about access to the children and so on – it is highly likely that their relationship will implode.”

    While it is likely true that TWU WUV will not last indefinitely, that is still not a reason for any chump to wait by the sidelines.

    Trying on partners for size is what dating is for. Marriage is “all sales final”. No returns. No refunds.

    • I didn’t bother reading the full article for fear that I would get super mad while at work, but this guys seems really CONFUSED as to what his message was supposed to be.

      That passage makes it sound like a “trust that they suck” line, saying that reality’s going to hit the cheater and hit them HARD. What he fails to understand is good people don’t do physically/mentally abusive things in the first place and cheaters aren’t worth waiting around for!

      • It was the only part of the article that was partly based on reality–and he twisted that too…

  • This is the biggest load of bullshit I have ever read! It HAS to be a joke. Oh, and I did “get to know” the OW. She was a narcissistic, fame whore Jesus cheater, who tried her best to destroy my family and my professional reputation… and who, to this day, plays the victim.I just hope the delusional piece of monkey shit who wrote that article isn’t married. If he his, will someone please give his poor wife a link to CL?

    • I checked his FB page and his bio. No mention of a wife, and a picture of him and his dog. I admit, I had to look…’coz who would want to put up with THAT BS?

    • The OW in my case lives on my street and I see her all the time — at kid events, the grocery store, etc. When I confronted her with the fact that she had sex with my husband in an alley, she came back to me with “oh no! That’s not true! It was a parking lot.” True story. Guess I owe her an apology too. 🙂

      • Ah, don’t you know only cheap whores fuck in alleys. Women of substances fuck in parking lots or, in my situation, a public road next to the parking lot, in the middle of the day…but there were trees around, so it was really “private” and no one’s business, right?

        • SAC, not only that, you can see for yourself this lady has standards…fucking someone else’s husband in a parking lot is diametrically opposed to fucking him in a dark alley.

      • Wow, I can’t imagine what it must be like to see the OW all the time. I have a hard time when there is a possibility only every now and then. Sending you good thoughts…

        • That is why I moved 900 miles away, and believe me, as I was lifting off on that flight, I was crying tears of joy!
          Best way to kick start your new life- get some new scenery, and a new climate!

    • I already knew the OW even before the affair started. In fact, she had me over to dinner, played tennis with me, talked with me about homeschooling and raising an autistic child and had me volunteer at her dog rescue. All that while she was FUCKING MY HUSBAND. So what exactly was I supposed to gain from knowing her?

      • She was dishing with you about all that personal stuff…..while fucking your husband? That is really fucked up.

        • …THIS……OW#5 (or 6 or whatever the hell number she is) same thing was working OH SO HARD TO BE MY BEST FRIEND….put me right on edge……….even sent me a LETTER to tell me how they were just GOOD FRIENDS

          • Ha – I knew OW well. Thought she was my bff. We stayed overnight in her (married at the time) home, and they at ours numerous times. Travelled all over the country showing dogs with them for 5 yrs. Oh, we were so cozy. Even went to her daughter’s wedding, granddaughters Christening. You name it. After her and her husband divorced (guess he found her cheating on him but nobody bothered to tell me with WHO – yep, my H) she went full-bore predator on me to become even closer to her. Phoned daily, texted, emailed, right up til the point I caught them together on one of his fancy ‘biz’ trips he took her on across the country. Guess she was just into finding out everything that was in my head so she could take advantage of every piece of info I told her, including some ‘marital issues’ I seemed to be having at the time (ya think?), not to mention what she used against me to wife-bash me to my H. She even moved into my home, and my motorhome when I was out of town, like she had MY LIFE. A true PIG. vomit

            • I came home from work one day to find the OW walking around my house! Didn’t know they were fucking, but knew I didn’t like her. My then teenaged daughter came in from track practice and the OW woman began to lecture my daughter about her”inappropriate attire”(she was in running shorts because she had been, well, running). My daughter said,” I don’t know who the fuck you think you are, but get the fuck out of my face.” Kids, gotta love ’em. Even my ex knew better than to mess with my little dynamo! I’ll save the story about how, after the last betrayal, she went to the OW’s house and really let loose. Let’s just say she wasn’t blessing anyone’s heart. My hero, but I’m still sad she had to go through all the bullshit.

              • Louise, your daughter sounds like a total ninja. I know you said you would save the story, but given the claptrap we all just got served up, I know I could certainly use a tale of a teenaged badass standing up for her mom (she clearly knows how to stand up for herself). When your kids not only have your back, but clearly know how to defend their own, you know you must be doing right by them as a parent.

                One word: WOOT

              • My greatest wish for ALL our daughters is that they never experience what we all have in their lifetime. Sad to say that I would never wish for my two beautiful girls to meet, fall in love with, marry, have children, etc., with someone like their father.

              • Ah Louise, love your daughter. Same here, my ex brought his AP’s into our home as “family friends” and co-workers. The “main” AP befriended me, her sons played with mine, she painted paintings which we hung on our walls, they stayed in our home, etc etc. My daughter did not like her though, told her father and me before D-Day, “I do not like her, she’s always ‘in my grill'”. Bless my daughter! After D-Day she told the AP off before un friending her on Facebook.

                When these sickos actually brought their AP’s into our homes, with our children, they crossed a line that at least for my children guaranteed they would not be able to have a relationship with him in the future. My youngest is 14 and has not seen his father since D-Day over 2 years ago. The older two saw him a couple times with my encouragement but decided that their was simply no reason to see him further.

                Talk about reaping and sowing,

              • Oh Louise,

                I want advice on child rearing! My stbxh has his girlfriends and her kids over when he has my kids and my teenage daughter has actually told me she enjoys hanging out with them and doesn’t believe her dad cheated. Not only that, but tonight I had a friend and her boys over for dinner. My son is great friends with her boys. My daughter decided she doesn’t like this friend of mine because she says my friend is “judgmental” towards people my daughter loves (aka her dad). So she went to her dad’s house for dinner. Don’t know if the girlfriend was there or not. So in summary it’s ok to have dinner with dad’s girlfriend weekly, but not with mom and little brother’s friends.

                On top of all this she takes any concerns or anger about me straight to her dad who promptly turns it around to hurt me. I have asked her to discuss her problems about me with, oh I don’t know, ME! or ANYONE but her father.

                I’m starting to wonder if she’s a narc too, or just completely brainwashed.

                Breaks my heart. I have done everything for that girl. Been there EVERYDAY of her life, while dad was always “working”. Sure he was available for special days, but not 90% of her or her brother’s lives.

                This sucks sooo bad!

              • what the hell was the bitch doing walking around YOUR house? I cant believe some of these fucktards and their whores! if its not enough they were cheating, lying, disrespecting us and they had the nerve to bring these whores in our homes? that right there really pisses me off!

            • My ex’s skank did the same thing – nearly moved into my home while I was away setting up our new house in a different state. VERY obvious that I still lived there, but they both chose to pretend he was single. Of course, my ex gave her the key, so they are both responsible for being lying sacks of shit without an ounce of character between them. And she called ME a “pig” and told me that because of the size of my jeans, I was no competition for her. There is a special place in hell for people like these women. KAREN SS IN PISCATAWAY YOU ARE A NASTY SKANK HO WHO SLEEPS WITH OTHER WOMEN’S HUSBANDS, LOVERS, AND BOYFRIENDS. DIDN’T YOUR LAST RELATIONSHIP WITH A MARRIED MAN TEACH YOU ANYTHING? CAN’T YOU FIND YOUR OWN MAN, YOU UGLY FUCKING WHORE? Talk about being a PIG.

              • Only a complete fucking moron measures their worth (or presumes to measure someone else’s) by their jean size.

                Oy vey.

            • What is it with people who pretend to be your friend or ally while cheerfully betraying you in ways you didn’t even know existed? As fascinated as I am by the field of psychology, especially in the aftermath of D-day, I’ve found myself both comforted and disgusted by terms that seem so sanitized to me. He’s got a ‘personality disorder.’ She’s ‘a narcissist.’ He’s got ‘FOO issues.’ On the one hand, I take comfort in the label. I know what it means now. This is what I’m dealing with. And yet the label stays at the level of the mind, and that doesn’t help me where I’m hurting. Right now, as I’m going through my own shit and reading what shit you all have been through, what I find myself looking for is Biblical language. Fire and brimstone, apocalyptic RAGE. My heart reaches for words like “evil” or “monster” or even “fucktard.” At some point, I really do hope I reach MEH or forgiveness or whatever semantic space splits the change. But I’m a long, long way from there.

              • Yes FoolMe, for a long time after D-Day I just seemed to be searching for a word bad enough, and you know, I never found one, not to this day! But I have taken more comfort than I could have imagined in biblical references. And I found myself praying that hell exists, because if it does my ex has a special spot reserved for him in the inner ring. Achieving Meh, like the stages of grief (at least for me) was not a linear progression. You circle around, one stage to the next, and then slip back again, sometimes when you least expect it. Two steps forward, one step back. But you will get there in time.

              • Thank you, Kelly. For sure it’s not linear. I guess I just gotta be in it ’til I’m not in it anymore. Reminds me in a way of labour pains and how, after a point you just surrender to the whole process, knowing that you’ll come out of it. Only this time what I’m birthing is a healthier, freer self.

                Now if I could just get an epidural . . .

    • I was lucky enough to be invited to my STBXH and his porn star OW’s date night three days before DDay. (She’s H’s coworker and I knew her and it was under the pretense of “let’s all go dancing!!!”, I’m really not that dense to agree to go on date night 🙂 )
      I’m pretty sure their plan was to get me drunk so they could have more time to “sexy dance” and I wouldn’t remember anything. At one point, I looked in a mirror when I thought only myself and STBXH were freak dancing and sure enough, there was Porn Princess, freaking him from the back. We were doing the “cheater sandwich”!

  • I cannot fathom how anyone would take love/relationship from this little troll! He couldn’t get laid with a $100 bill taped to his forehead!! I’m inclined to believe that this asshat has mommy/women hating issues. I know at some point we have all done the humiliating pick me dance but I’ll be damned if I’m going to apologize to my Stbx for his cheating on me & breaking up our family.

  • I inadvertently read the line as, “The first slap towards recovery needs you to change.”
    Would have been more true than what this dork actually wrote.
    (And sounds like he needs a good one, Gibbs style, on the head!)

    • He looks like a character from Game of Thrones and his attitude towards women is consistent with those characters on Game of Thrones! Geez, in this day and age if he continues with those attitudes he’s only gonna have his dog for company!

        • Come on, CL, let’s be fair here.

          Dogs don’t get married. I’m sure his dog would be fine with the OW. And if the dog isn’t, peeing on the bed they have vole sex on isn’t the same as trying to control him.

          • Interestingly enough, while my older dog does like STBX, the older dog started getting anxiety in the evening, and to my surprise, seemed anxious about going inside, not coming outside. I remember wondering why he was afraid to come inside. After I discovered the affair, I wonder if OW or STBX was mean to my dog on a day when they grabbed a quick fuck in the bedroom. Most of the time, the dogs are with me, but I can see both those losers being harsh to my older boy, who’s a very soft dog.

              • kb and river,
                Makes me crazy angry. Cruel people suck.
                These creatures are so special, and so smart. My dog is so much calmer now. I’m using him as my picker! It’s actually working too.
                The man I’m with now loves him, plays “ball” and lets him sleep on his lap when we watch tv and my boy is a healthy sized beagle!

              • I think a good way to see someone’s character is by how they treat others “beneath” them–like employees, waiters/waitresses, pets. If they are in a position of power and care, do they abuse it, or are they genuinely kind?

            • My X brought my sweet old golden retriever, Kelly, along with them on their first TRYST to a wedding in Boston while I was away. Sweet old Kelly, who would never hurt a fly, BIT THE BITCH ON THE WAY!! She actually had the nerve to complain about it on FACEBOOK!!

              Unfortunately, Kelly passed in December. But oh how I loved that dog! Even MORE because he could tell that this BITCH was up to no good and was hurting his family. My clueless X was too consumed with his dick to get it. xxxxx

              • Good puppy, Kelly (from a human Kelly), rest in sweet peace.

                Dogs truly understand more than these assholes could ever realize.

        • Good one, CL!

          In his pic, how can you tell which is which?

          Easy!!!! The pup is soooooo much better looking!!!!

          hehehehehhe!

          Bee-u-tee-fulllllll!!! Tracy……Great post….Thanks!

          Forge on………

        • I prefer the company of my dogs, too. 🙂 Oh, and one of my colleagues has a really swell t-shirt: “The more time I spend with people, the more I prefer the company of my dog–and my dog’s a bitch.” She has a rescue Malinois with issues, so enough said!

          Dogs are honest in their affection. Want a dog to like you? Have really great treats! Cheaters aren’t as honest. They’ll lie about how they really don’t want kibble and cake; oh no, it’s about twu wub! 😀

  • Assuming that “advice” isn’t a joke, it seems to me this man is steeped full of hatred towards women. Does he advise men married to cheaters to beg for their adulterous wives’ forgiveness? Are betrayed men supposed to suck it up and consider how they caused the cheating by their own behavior? Are they supposed to feel okay if their cheating wife moves in with her OM? I doubt it.

    As for his play touring the coffee shops of West Sussex, that reminds me of my ex. His book about himself — an inspirational bestseller according to him — hit its peak when he did a book signing in a donut shop in Cleveland. I’m not even kidding.

    Actually, every single thing about that freaky vole Andrew G Marshall reminds me of my ex. I wonder if Andrew has ever danced in a furry costume on YouTube?

      • Snatch-squatch….

        Glad, good point about whether he’d give men the same advice. I’d be real surprised if he did. After all, it’s the woman’s fault for being preoccupied with kids, home, et al, right? So, what’s the “excuse” for a woman to cheat? Say the guy’s is too preoccupied with kids, home, et al, would he say it’s because the woman had too much time on her hands, and he should lay off the housework?

    • He actually has a book called “My Wife Doesn’t Love Me Anymore: How to Win Her Back.” You can look it up on Amazon and it has a feature where you can read the first chapter or so.

      Which I did.

      And it’s complete bullshit.

      In the introduction, he openly admits that he’s going to make blanket statements and sweeping generalizations. “But stay with me!” No seriously. He says he’s going to be totally generalizing about both men AND women and still expects the reader to “stay with him” because you might learn something.

      Yeah. THAT’S a great way to inspire confidence in your readers about your work.

      But it gets worse. He spends pretty much the first few pages of the first chapter doing exactly that. Making ridiculously outdated and stereotype-filled generalizations about men and women in relationships. “Her magazines are full of advice about relationships and marriage while yours are all about football, business and politics.” or “She has a whole group of friends and a support system who listen to her gossip every day about your bad behavior and your friends will tease you and buy you a beer.”

      Yes, because men are all at the bar and women are all the characters from Sex and the City.

      But that’s not the worst part of it. No.

      In this blog, the one that CL just tore apart today, he spends all his time talking about how the wife has to apologize for everything, dissolve all her needs and just shut up and wait for him on the sidelines. Pretty much focuses completely on the idea that it’s the wife’s job to satisfy ALL his wants, needs and whims at ALL times and it’s ALL about coddling HIS unstable emotions.

      It’s absolutely NO DIFFERENT in this book. The beginning of “My Wife Doesn’t Love Me Anymore: How to Win Her Back” doesn’t talk about subverting your personality and kissing the ground she walks on or apologizing for “nagging.” No, after making those ridiculous generalizations, he spends all his energy patting the male ego and basically saying “poor you, the mean ol’ bitch hurt your feelings!” He actually has the fucking gall to say this:

      “You’re wondering how it’s come to this and why on earth she hasn’t told you sooner.”

      And this is after, in the very first paragraph, he says that men assume love is “women’s work” and that’s a bad thing. So basically he starts out by saying men should be more involved in the romance process, but then turns around to say that yes, it IS women’s work and she should have said something sooner.

      I looked a little further to see what exactly he says men should do in situations where their wives don’t love them anymore. It’s not NEARLY as demanding as this. He gives some testimony from I guess one of his “clients,” but it doesn’t say because there’s no attribution, so he could have totally made it up, I don’t know. But it just said that this guy went to the gym a little more and accepted invitations to go out to events with friends. And then his wife magically loved him again. She even surprised him with Super Bowl tickets!

      So according to him, women need to become co-dependent slaves and apologize for being cheated on, and men just need to go to the gym a little more and hang out with her friends. Because apparently the phrase “I am not in love with you anymore and this marriage is over” isn’t all that serious and can be fixed with a little weight lifting. It’s not like we need to take it SERIOUSLY when someone says that…

      He also mentions that he uses the word “wife” and not “partner” because this book is just for MEN. (And all men are straight, right?)

      • He just writes books like that so that the titles can be translated into 15 different languages. That way, cheaters will have all the lines they need in most Western languages…

    • “His book about himself…hit its peak when he did a book signing in a donut shop in Cleveland.”

      Snorted out loud, Glad, good to see your ex and mine continue on the same trajectory.

  • As someone from the UK, I can tell you that ‘Relate’ is the free/extremely low cost (they’re a non-profit organisation) marriage counseling service that is offered as standard to anyone who is having marriage problems, particularly to those who can’t afford to go to a private marriage counseling service.

    In other words, this quack has access to some of the most vulnerable people in the UK, who literally have no other options if they want to seek marriage counseling.

    Yeah. It makes me feel sick to be honest.

    • Ok, it’s bad enough being a snake oil salesman and making money of people’s pain.

      It’s even worse when you prey on vulnerable people.

      That organisation should have an accountability process, where they can kick out the asses who harm people like he does.

  • Oh my my…Is this guy for real?? this narcissistic pig have his head so far up his ass that he has no idea what he is saying or this dude is high as a fucking kite! This was the most stupidest thing I have ever heard in my entire life! LOL! Look at the dude, he probably couldn’t get laid if his life depended on it!

    and Tracy, boy you just described my ex and everything that went on and I mean everything to a T! If I didn’t any know better I would’ve said we had the same cheating asshole!!

    • “narcissistic pig have his head so far up his ass that he has no idea what he is saying or this dude is high as a fucking kite! ”

      I’m just having this mental picture of a pig with Ben Franklin glasses, with its head in his butt-cheeks, flying a kite with a key attached to the end….

      ….and then the bolt of lightning strikes…..

  • I think I see the problem here. The article was supposed to be published on April 01, and someone accidentally typed in April 10.

  • Jesus, that picture! And then the bullshit! I went into a panic but it wasn’t because of the serial cheating, it was because I was about to be in a very, very severe financial crisis. And my panic was warranted. You want to know why? Because my ex didn’t cheat with my friends, my co-workers, his friends, his co-workers or myriad others because I nagged or we lost the spark or my anger. He cheated because he’s always cheated and he likes it.

    And my anger? Even before I figured out what was going on? It was low grade and probably pretty unpleasant. You want to know why (again)? Because I was home raising kids, cleaning house and doing everything I could to make his life good and he was treating me like an albatross. Not too obviously, of course, but enough that I felt it and knew something was off, more and more, as the years went by. But hey! Like everyone else here I didn’t cheat! I worked to make things better! And the ex just amped up his bullshit.

    So Andrew? I suggest you kiss my hardworking, loving, fantastic ass and find a new line of bullshit to peddle. You’re full of it and you don’t look like you could get laid by a blind prarie vole.

    • ” I went into a panic but it wasn’t because of the serial cheating, it was because I was about to be in a very, very severe financial crisis. And my panic was warranted. You want to know why? Because my ex didn’t cheat with my friends, my co-workers, his friends, his co-workers or myriad others because I nagged or we lost the spark or my anger. He cheated because he’s always cheated and he likes it.”

      THIS. My ex was cheating before we were even married, and continued throughout the entire 20 years. I wasn’t an angry, nagging wife, either, not that that is an excuse even if I was. Heck, the only thing I really “nagged” him about was that he should have more sex with me.

    • Amen Nord! It was the same for me. It all boils down to having an honest relationship, and you can’t reach someone who’s not being honest with you.

  • I wonder why he left out “You can also help set him up with other women to win his gratitude”?

    So is his argument basically “Men cheat because their wives nag”?

    I don’t want to read the original story because clicks = $$$, and the publisher might get the wrong idea 🙂

  • CL, I’m so glad you called this guy out. I think this guy’s advice is dangerous to people who are in a very vulnerable state. I know I was after D-Day and, based on advice similar to Andrew’s, I tried to do everything to save my marriage. Even though I work full-time and have 2 young kids, I desperately put all my energy into addressing every one of my XH’s criticisms (had grey hairs, didn’t shave my armpits, didn’t wear enough jewelry, wasn’t fashionable enough, never cooked for him, paid too much attention to kids, never called him, didn’t lose pregnancy weight fast enough, never did my nails, spent too much time at my parents’ house, was usually sleeping when he got home (which was usually after midnight)), but it was all too little, too late.

    Andrew’s advice encourages women to stay in an abusive situation (and invite more abuse, because following his advice will make the H feel even more entitled) that is potentially damaging to their health, both physical and emotional. But he does have one good nugget of advice–let the OW and H live together and watch the relationship implode.

  • My first thought when I read the full article was, “Dear Gawd, the man is a cheating narcissistic fuck who is blame-shifting and offering a mind-blowing rationalization for why cheaters (he) should get more kibble-cake.

    Then I saw his photo.

    Lost my lunch.

    He should apologize and eat a double helping of humble pie for subjecting the world to that face as well as his tripe.

    • Yeah, Champ, not Chump! I thought a similar thing. It strikes me as someone, Andrew, is trying to justify one’s own bad, cheating behavior (whether long past or present).

      Also, it never ceases to amaze me how people assume it is the Chump who has a humility problem! How about the cheater who assumed they were so smart to never get caught (and then did)?! Yeah, cheaters are just models of character and humility!

      • Oh, my cheater was as you describe; I’m positive he thought he could cheat with multiple women and I’d never have a clue. Only problem was that I’m smarter than he is, and I’d been cheated on once before, so the signals were like flashing neon signs.

        I do confess to a humility problem… I’m having a reeeeeeally hard time convincing myself that I’m not worth a thousand times better than to be cheated on.

        My apology? “I’m sorry, you piece of dirt, but you no longer deserve me, and I’m sorry if the door hits you in the face when I slam it shut.”

        • Ha!

          I do NOT think holding to one’s true worth demonstrates a lack of humility. Being a doormat is not being humble…it is being a doormat. No one deserves to be cheated on.

  • The man’s responsibility in this whole scenario is what? Sit on his throne and snicker as his wife tries thousands of different ways to get through to him? He gets to judge whether she’s acting too nice, or nagging, or being too much of a mother, or not screwing him enough, or not speaking up, or speaking up too much, or making too big a deal about him screwing someone else…all this to make her man “fall back in love with her?” In other words ladies, it’s time to lay down and let yourself be run over repeatedly to prove you’re worthy enough to win the pick me dance. If you don’t die, you might get him back. But the honest truth is if you follow this man’s advice, you’re going to die. At least spiritually you will.

    Such great advice, Andrew.

  • Poster boy for “Rectal Cranial Inversion.”
    Walking ad for vibrators.
    I wonder if his mother had any children who lived?

      • Tracy….one does not have to be either to clearly see that this person’s IQ is lower than his shoe size. 🙂

        • As a mental health professional, I am appalled at Marshall’s suggestions. For the record, I was a “Chump” for one of the briefest periods known to “Chumpdom” Took me less than a week to discover (in great detail) what the ILYBIANILWY speech really meant. After that it was, “Balls to the wall!” HIS balls…which may still be tattered but I really don’t care to inspect. 🙂

  • So, what advice does he have for the spouses who were very accommodating, rarely (if ever) nagged, and let their spouses come and go and have their fun while the chumps stayed at home and took care of the kids, did the chores, etc.?

    I think that was one of the hardest things for me to process. Did he cheat on me because I wasn’t CLINGY enough? Was I supposed to hound him, follow him around constantly, and make more demands on his time? Compared to what I hear coming now out of Cheater Central (from what little my kids will mention in passing), the OWife has my ex on a very short leash. I guess that was what he wanted?

    That’s part of the problem with the IRC– the assumption is made that the chump spouse was clingy, a nag, a jerk, jealous, etc. Plenty of us were none of those, and while I certainly wasn’t perfect, he was on Easy Street when he was with me.

    Go shove your stereotypes and misconceptions up your arse, Dr. Poser. All of the normal, non-disordered folk I’ve shared my story with think that my ex is as effed up as they come and can’t believe that he treated me and my kids in such a horrific way. Not ONE of them ever suggested that it was my fault, I should apologize for being a horrid wife, etc.

    • MovingOn, I was just like you, and I believe they just cheat, cheat, cheat no matter what. Don’t think you could have changed it. I told my X ‘you had it made in the shade with me’. I gave him ample freedom, and I did most of the child care, because I trusted him.
      I think the reason your X may go along with the short leash, is that he KNOWS the side-fuck-now-wife may leave him! Your marriage with him ended, so he figured out that it happens (they are so slow)

  • I was hoping the advice doled out by Andrew G. Marshall was hysterical satire. But no. Check out this word salad he posted on his Facebook.

    My favorite bits include: You cheat because you’re a people pleaser (poor sausages). If you’re a serial cheater, you must accept MORE THAN YOUR FAIR SHARE of the blame cake.

    Torn between your partner and your lover? Read my advice to Francois Hollande in the Times on 21st January

    “Right now you are in shock at having been discovered. This might seem a bit of a strange, because you are the one person that knows what’s been going on all the time, but first of all you start lying to other people, and then you start lying to yourself. And suddenly the full reality of what you’ve done hits you. You might have told yourself ‘oh my partner won’t care that much’, or ‘they know that there’s a problem’, and then you discover that in reality, it is a complete and utter fiasco.

    So what you’ve got to do is understand how you got into this mess. The number one reason people have affairs is because they are people pleasers, which seems bizarre. What happens is, your partner says ‘let’s do this’, and because you want to please them, and they get upset if you don’t agree, you tend to go along with it and bury your needs. You can’t bury your needs forever, and they explode in the most extraordinary selfishness. You tell yourself ‘for once I can do something for me’. In reality, however the other woman might present herself, she has needs too, and suddenly you’re in a situation where you’re a people pleaser for two people. This is exactly where you are at the minute, and you cannot please both women. You are going to make one, or possibly both of them, incredibly angry.

    Your second problem is that you don’t actually listen to your feelings, because unfortunately men are brought up to be creatures of action, which is how they end up becoming people pleasers. People have affairs because they’re unhappy. If they’d listened to their feelings they’d say ‘I’m unhappy we need to do something about A, B and C’.
    And now when everything has come to the surface you’re trying to navigate by your feelings – effectively a man who has never listened to them in his life before. It’s like sending someone who has never driven a car before on to the M25, you’re going to crash.
    If you are in any shadow of a doubt about Julie Gayet, I would say try and repair things with your wife. And that means no contact with your mistress, and this is the bit that most men cannot do. It means immediately forwarding any emails or texts from the other woman to your partner, otherwise trust will never rebuild. If you are a people pleaser, unless you can change, you are going to be making a mess of every relationship you’re in. If you’re going to learn to communicate better, I would say a great place to start is with your original partner.

    Affairs are carried out in a bubble, and so you don’t really know what the other woman is going to be like in the real world. However, if you’re certain that actually you love her and want nothing more to do with your old partner, then you’ve got to be very generous. You’ve got to cough up, financially. You’ve got to give her a good reason for why the relationship ended. If you are a serial adulterer, you have to take more than your fair share of the blame cake. Having said that, if you are a woman who is considering taking on a man who has had affairs, I would suggest extreme caution and to remember a famous saying ‘when a man marries his mistress, he creates a vacancy’.”

    • Cheaters are people pleasers?

      OMG, is that like the oldest canard or what? “She really needed me.” The whole knight in shining armor, just helping out a friend bullshit.

      Yeah, they’re so people pleasing to their spouses and children. I guess those people don’t count as people.

    • Men are creatures of action and that’s why they cheat?

      What about WOMEN cheaters? Do women cheat in this idiot’s universe? Or do cheating men just cheat with other men or goats or something?

      Are they unhappy too? People of action! Pleasers!

      Or are they just whores?

        • Hilarious, CP!

          Ok, so it does not appear this guy is married, and for all we know, may never have been. Should that not be a clue about whether or not his advice works? Or, that he really has NO idea about marriage? We get pissed off at “celibate” priests doing marital counselling–what about him? What if he’s gay–wouldn’t it then be better for him to focus on gay couples instead? Or if he’s a vole-man–shouldn’t he write about vole-man cheaters instead?

          I mean really. Surely there is something this man can write about that he has a clue of–even if it’s how to keep the bald spot shiny…

  • Ok so here’s the obvious question-Why would we want to ‘win’ back a cheater? Let me speak for everyone: “Um, cuz you don’t!”.

    I speak from experience too. I did the pick me dance for three long years for (as far as I know) a one time cheater. All he did in the end when I finally had the nerve to say screw it and tell him I wanted a divorce was to set up dating profiles, start dating while I still living at home and practically have the new one move in a month after I moved out and before we went to court in January. (They are on vacation together as we speak) Now that I think about it I guess technically he is a two time cheater.

    During our split he informed me of all the times “I missed a spot” during my three year pick me dance. Why the hell would anyone want to ‘win’ that back?

    On a side note-the author of this drivel is FUGLY!!

    • I agree, why would anyone want to “win” a cheater? It’s like winning the f*ck you prize at the end of the all you can eat shit buffet. No thanks.

      This guy is ridiculous. I need to say sorry? Sure. I guess I needed to be sorry for picking a loser cheater as a life partner but otherwise, I’m good.

  • I smell the stench of a cheater. I would find his ideas laughable if his clients did not believe him. Ugh, this kind of bullshit is very destructive.

  • I don’t know what’s up with this guy, but I went watched the videos on his site and googled his books and this stood out:

    He always presents things in “7 steps”.

    1. The 7 steps to loving yourself enough
    2. The 7 steps from discovery to recovery
    3. The 7 steps of putting passion back in your marriage.

    Basically, he’s got one format. It’s like when you were in college and first discovered that you could basically expand on the five paragraph essay format and use that to write all of your papers. He’s got a formula for churning out these books.

    • He does a lot of “5 steps” things in blog posts.

      Apparently 5 steps generates enough content to fill an article or blog post, but you need 7 for a book 😉

      • Oops. Posted too soon again, he says there are “8 types of affairs” starting with the “Accidental”, “Cry for Help”, and “Self Medication Affair”.

  • Chump Lady,

    Would you consider writing a Letter to the Editor for the Daily Mail about how messed up this is? That would be a really good way to potentially Whore the Blog around? They oh so desperately need a dissenting opinion……

  • Great rationalizations! Terrific justifications! Andrew is the international savior of cheating spouses!

    My question regarding being soooo overwhelmingly consumed with raising the kids bits is : who the fuck else is/ was going to raise them because the cheater already divorced themselves emotionally and pretty much physically from them to justifiy their “slice” on the side???

    I’m not baking or eating the humble pie crap. It is very hard for cheaters to be decent people. No amount of whining makes the uncheating, child raising, responsible spouse culpable for the cheater’s choices.

    Marriage takes work and effort, not locating the nearest oriface to get your needs met and then blaming your spouse or your children, in my case. Young children and infant twins are sooooo neeeeedddyyy!

  • What is more worrisome to me is that some poor unsuspecting woman being cheated on will read his garbage and give it a try. Not that most of us didn’t try some of that (not all of it .. good lord, tell him to go live with her and leave the door open so he could come back. In what alternate universe does that sound like a good idea? “Well, yes, honey. You go play house with your little whore and I’ll wait patiently here until you decide to come home. I’ll keep the fires burning.” Damn right … burn your hairy ass.) So, where does the cheater bear any responsibility in his affairs? This is totally a little boy attitude … give me what I want or I’ll hold my breath until I turn blue. Well, go right ahead little boy. Turn blue. It’s a good shade for you. Especially for your balls when I grab them with my hand and twist till they fall off. When did it become our responsibility to do anything and everything to keep them at home? This guy is a moron who, obviously cheated and tried to convince his wife of all of this. Probably didn’t work with her either.

  • Cheesus H. Christ on a Krispy Kreme! What the fuckity-fuck is this guy smoking?!! Don’t stand to close to this stupid asshole because that shit might be contagious.

    I should apologize to my serial-cheating, panty-wearing hobgoblin because I worked a full-time job, took care of four children, cooked many meals, did all of the laundry, did the majority of the housework, was an active parent member of anything in which any of my children were involved, while at the same time trying to meet every never-ending, whiney-assed titty-baby, navel-gazing need of that “I Do Whatever the Fuck I Want” piece of shit I called my husband/love of my life? Yeah, well, I want both of these trolling twats to hold their breath and wait for that moment. I apologized enough for things that weren’t my fault when I was with that Cheater Turd. I’m over it. The next apology he’ll hear from me will be, should I be fortunate enough to outlive him, sorry, you’re dead, but not really.

    Meet the OW? Met the bitch – repeatedly, much to my disgust. She’s not someone who improves upon further acquaintance, thank you very much.

    I can only assume this, and I use the term loosely, person, was dropped repeatedly on his head as a baby, which is the only rational exlanation for his ideas and his appearance.

    If people like this Conehead from the Planet Idiocracy are going to be allowed to continue to pander this insane drivel, they’re going to have to start selling anti-head exploding devices.

    • He would have to be held as a baby to be dropped. Based on his hate for women I don’t think he made it that far…

  • Common sense is common sense and this method of dealing is so preferable to Mr. Marshall’s…and significantly more entertaining!!

    Excerpt from “The Sweetpotato Queen’s Wedding Planner/Divorce Guide” by Jill Conner Browne:

    (Caution: Spew Alert!!)

    http://books.google.com/books?id=x7uOEaoU1GYC&pg=RA1-PA44&lpg=RA1-PA44&dq=The+Sweetpotato+Queens+on+cheating+men&source=bl&ots=X0STx8zwG0&sig=fxytJCfwB7ejmdV1TYHFkFWukss&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TARHU7KBOubf2QXQvYGgDQ&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=The%20Sweetpotato%20Queens%20on%20cheating%20men&f=false

    • Yes! A good friend of mine sent me that book when I kicked the ExH out. Absolutely loved it! Every bit as snarky as CL! I loved best the passages about what he’s telling OW.

  • I’ve been thinking about this asshole tonight and it just came to me: he’s trolling. And the Mail gave him a forum. He’s like Katie Hopkins, just saying things to be provocative, knowing that it will get people shouting from the rooftops. Click bait for the Mail and he sells a few more books while raising his profile.

    The best thing about all of this is the universal agreement (including in the Mail’s comment’s section) that this guy would be hard pressed to find a woman to fuck on a good day, never mind a mistress.

  • We Chumps should comment on his article with links to the Chumplady Blog. That would Whore the Blog Around! We should inundate the comment sections of ALL articles from the “blame the chump/reconciliation industrial complex” with links to Chumplady! We can be Chump Activists!

    • Oh, the net is rife with dumbass articles. I saw one about a journalist who wrote about her year on extra-marital dating sites. She concluded it wasn’t worth it–not because she realises she’s a ho, but because there really aren’t good quality people to cheat with.

      D’ya think????

  • I have two comments: 1) There is some real advice in there, to win back the cheater. I think our cheaters want to be with us forever. They love us as much as they can love and we sort of worship them. My story is really close to ChumpLady in that I was so good to my cheater, I sort of served him. I didn’t complain about his super stinginess, I kept the house immaculate, I offered up hot sex whenever it was hinted at. I did everything I knew how to do to keep him happy. If I would have accepted his behavior, I think we’d still be together. I’m pretty sure that’s what he ultimately wanted. But, um, excuse me, is there a reason you would want win him back? 2) I have two guy co-workers who are on their second marriages and they tell me about their x-wives constantly. Both of them had wives that spent them into financial ruin, cheated on them, and withheld sex as a control thing. OK, so if you are THAT wife, and your husband cheats on you- get to grovelling. However, both of these guys were so unbelievably happy to meet relatively normal girls that they practically worship their new wives and help them around the house tons and take them flowers etc. So, there are definitely guys out there, under 50, who are seriously just looking for a nice girl to be faithful to them and have sex a couple times a week. Why in the world would you grovel to get back a piece of shit when there’s a man-chump out there waiting to treat you well?

    • You wrote exactly what I was thinking.. this is probably exactly what I needed to do to “win him back”. This article may be completely right. It shines a bright light on the question of why in the hell I would want him back if this is how low I have to sink to keep my marriage. No, this is not what I had in mind when I took my vows, and it will not be what my marriage looks like. I really pity the woman who values herself so little to listen to this horseshit.

  • Damn.

    I shoulda tried MUCH harder at being sorry, and then that way, I might have that sorry-assed loser still taking up space in my home.

    Damn.

  • **And can this picture be for real? Andrew G. Marshall looks like Voldemort with British dentistry.**

    Hahahaha This is the best line and sooo true! He does look like Voldemort. He even has the squashed nose look.

    Just a guess, but could his looks be mirroring his personality???

  • A standing ovation to whoever wrote that brilliant article. [Snort!] There’s nothing like announcing to the whole world that you are a special kind of STUPID. To all those betrayed spouses the best way to save yourself is to throw the fucker out. There is absolutely nothing to save when someone cheats in a marriage. Can anybody tell this man what year it is? It is not your partner’s job to tell you how great you are… And,uh hello?Communication is a two way street. If you can’t handle being a grown up don’t get into a relationship until you know who you are and what you have to bring to it. And to those who can’t handle monogamy it’s simple: Don’t Marry. CL I think you should go on tour. 2014’s Chump Nation Throw the Fucker Out! Tour. I am sure it would sell out. Hell, I think we owe it to our next generation to teach what it took us so long to learn. There is value in that.

  • C’mon, guys.
    Criticise someone for what they wrote: fair enough.

    But slag them off on their appearance? That’s almost as bad as saying you can tell what someone’s like from their size of jeans.

    Have any of you ever met Andrew?
    Well, I have and he’s a nice guy – though I don’t agree with everything he writes, especially not this apology stuff.

    • Admittedly, saying Andrew G. Marshall looks like Voldemort with British dentistry is unkind (although accurate). However, IMO, it’s not nearly as offensive as publicly pronouncing that women must apologize to their cheating husbands, and that their inadequacies (time spent with children, their apparent sexlessness) drive men to cheat on them.

      If Mr. Sullivan wants to take a pot shot at my hair, or my fat ass in jeans, he’s more than welcome. It wouldn’t offend me nearly as much as his “therapy.”

    • I hear you, and agree. However, I still stand by my observation that he looks like he’s sneering in the photo. That’s not his appearance, but his facial expression. I find it creepy.

    • He doesn’t sound like a nice guy, although he could very well be one of those insufferable Niceguys(tm).

      As far as the content of his article, what the actual fuck??? Don’t complain if he moves in with her? Don’t prohibit contact? Yeah, no. My Swedish great-grandmother was tough as nails and as close to a no BS person as has ever existed. She’d not just spin in her grave if I permitted that, she’d excuse herself, come up out of it, find me, bitchslap me, kick him where it counts, then return to her dirt nap after she took care of business.

  • I’m in a helluva pissed off mood today, and Marshall can take his theory and shove it up his ass. Does he ever think of the fallout from what these selfish asshats do? I just got off the phone with my 12 year old daughter’s principal. As the last 3 months have gone by, she has slowly gone down in academics. She is normally an A and B student. They recently took Iowa Assessment Tests, and she was miserably below where she normally tested. You know why, Marshall? Because the mother fucker who decided to rip our family apart so he could be with a trashy whore affected not only ME, but worse..our children! His selfish needs were first and foremost in his mind. Not one ounce of regret, sorrow or remorse from someone who pretty much destroyed his wife and kids. Because he CHOSE (I refuse to believe it was some act of “fate” that caused him to find his “true love”) to decimate his family, and didn’t give a rat’s ass about the collateral damage along the way, my daughter is suffering. Not only academically, but socially as well. And I am supposed to give the piece of shit I married kudos for what he’s done? I’m supposed to let him continue to live with the OW, all while I’m hanging in the background, telling him how great he his, and waiting for him to come back? Hey Marshall..why don’t you come spend a few days at my house, and see what a joy our lives have become? Come and watch me bawl my eyes out uncontrollably out of the blue. Come and see how I haven’t been able to eat for 3 months and have lost 30 pounds. Come and see how my 12 year old daughter isn’t a kid anymore. She’s a lost, scared, confused child who was forced into a situation she should have never, ever been subjected to, just because her Dad decided that his life is better off without her..and ran off to his world filled with Skittles, unicorns and life over the rainbow. Come see a kid who has changed from a happy, social 12 year old to a sullen, sad, angry girl who doesn’t understand why Dad did this. Come and see this, Marshall. Then see if you think that these

    • Oh Sandy R., you have me sitting here crying. So sorry you and your daughter are going through this. That bastard never deserved you or his daughter.

  • I’m in a helluva pissed off mood today, and Marshall can take his theory and shove it up his ass. Does he ever think of the fallout from what these selfish asshats do? I just got off the phone with my 12 year old daughter’s principal. As the last 3 months have gone by, she has slowly gone down in academics. She is normally an A and B student. They recently took Iowa Assessment Tests, and she was miserably below where she normally tested. You know why, Marshall? Because the mother fucker who decided to rip our family apart so he could be with a trashy whore affected not only ME, but worse..our children! His selfish needs were first and foremost in his mind. Not one ounce of regret, sorrow or remorse from someone who pretty much destroyed his wife and kids. Because he CHOSE (I refuse to believe it was some act of “fate” that caused him to find his “true love”) to decimate his family, and didn’t give a rat’s ass about the collateral damage along the way, my daughter is suffering. Not only academically, but socially as well. And I am supposed to give the piece of shit I married kudos for what he’s done? I’m supposed to let him continue to live with the OW, all while I’m hanging in the background, telling him how great he his, and waiting for him to come back? Hey Marshall..why don’t you come spend a few days at my house, and see what a joy our lives have become? Come and watch me bawl my eyes out uncontrollably out of the blue. Come and see how I haven’t been able to eat for 3 months and have lost 30 pounds. Come and see how my 12 year old daughter isn’t a kid anymore. She’s a lost, scared, confused child who was forced into a situation she should have never, ever been subjected to, just because her Dad decided that his life is better off without her..and ran off to his world filled with Skittles, unicorns and life over the rainbow. Come see a kid who has changed from a happy, social 12 year old to a sullen, sad, angry girl who doesn’t understand why Dad did this. Come and see this, Marshall. Then see if you think that these pieces of shit deserve our consideration for even ONE moment, let alone basically forgiving their actions and welcoming them home with welcome arms, if and when he chooses to dump the OW. In the meantime, go fuck yourself.

    • He would blame it on you for nagging, or for having the self-esteem not to put up with an active cheater and his slut.

      I do, however, agree that he needs to go fuck himself. Doesn’t look like Dude is getting much action anywhere else. Cause…damn.

      (In all seriousness, I am so sorry your daughter is having to deal with this! Just be there for her. This too shall pass, and she will see what a great example of a strong woman her mama is.) xo

    • Sandy, you will be alright, both of you, in time! Your daughter needs one sane parent, and she has that. My kids went through a rough time as their father neglected them after I kicked his ass out (daughter was 11 at the time, son 12). They started seeing him for who he really is. Result; they now refuse to see him, except for one lunch or dinner a month, and that at the insistence of myself and the family therapist I insisted he take them too when he wouldn’t stop harassing ME about how ‘badly’ they were treating him.

      As bad as the narc’s behaviour had always been (so often negative, critical and uncaring, consistently selfish), it was how easily he trashed his kids’ family, and how selfishly he treated them after the separation that confirmed for me who he really is.

      He admitted that for a year and a half – from the moment of choosing to screw around again (previous time 7 years before) to the moment when the kids started to refuse to see him at all – he had NOT ONCE thought about how his behaviour would affect them or was affecting them, NOT ONCE thought about how what he was doing would impact his relationship with them, NOT ONCE thought about ways to help the kids through this or help them be ok. And his behaviour towards them showed every bit of that. And over that time period, he asked me ONCE (and them never) how they were doing, and was satisfied with a one sentence answer.

      Unfuckingbelievable. I still can’t wrap my mind around it.

      My daughter’s already crabby disposition got way worse, and she felt terrible about herself because of that. My son’s grades crashed for about 6 months, started picking up again, then crashed again when they started refusing to see him.

      But things have really settled down now, the grades are coming up again, the crabbiness seems to be at fairly normal 13-year-old-girl levels. It is noticeably more peaceful in our house, and the kids totally understand that this was about HIM, not me, not them, not anything any of us did. I think, despite having to grow up faster than they should have, despite certainly bearing scars, they will be OK, and more than OK. They are great kids, quite happy, and I’m so proud of them!

      Still HATE that man for what he did to them, though. Infuckinghuman. (Funny, spell check doesn’t like that one!)

  • I copied this from another site, from the same poster who wrote that other post that I posted here before, from Julie, I wanted to share it with all of you.

    Aristophanes, the ancient Greek playwright, told a myth about love. Men and women, he said, were originally one being with a single head and two faces turned in opposite directions. These original human beings had four arms and four legs, and each was supremely happy. They were as complete as a circle.

    But the god Zeus was jealous of mankind, so he sent a thunderbolt to split humans in two. Ever since men and women have tried to restore their original nature by finding their other half. When that happens, according to the myth, a man and a woman are “lost in an amazement of love, friendship, and intimacy.”

    We don’t choose who we love. When the right person comes into your life, they will be as they will be, and you will find you love them as they are. Love makes the other person perfect.

    Perhaps we need to spend more time focusing on ourselves, instead of focusing on someone to be with. Connect with our passions, our interests, and what fills us up. In living life to the fullest extent–out there, engaged in life, following our passions in the midst of others–we allow ourselves to come in contact with the one for us.

    The fuller you are the more desirable you will be to the one who is right for you. When you are living your life to the fullest, you have a life worthy of living. You have a measure of happiness in that kind of life. The icing on the cake will be when it brings you in contact with your other true half.

    What I am trying to say,

    Sometimes it takes time to move on from somebody you loved with all your heart who swore they’d love you and be faithful to you forever and then turns out to be a big, fat cheating liar.

    Your partner who cheated on you is NOT your other half/he is/was NOT your soul mate… Don’t waste anymore of your time,…….your real other half/soul mate is out there somewhere…

    • Nicolette, the idea that we have a soulmate/other half I don’t find to be a helpful one, as it leads to two big problems, often;

      1) we don’t recognize we’re with someone we shouldn’t be (addict, cheater, selfish idiot, lazy jerk, controlling freak), because we are very very much in love and are convinced they are our soulmate. Then we stay with them longer than we should, for the same reason. ‘Love makes the other person perfect’ – should read, ‘love makes us blind to the reality of the other person, and of the relationship’. That kind of intense, early infatuation FEELS great, and we should enjoy it. But we should base our long-term commitments on seeing very clearly, our eyes wide open, once the intensity calms down.

      2) people do jerky dishonest things because they think they’ve found their soulmate, and that justifies anything – impulsive commitments, cheating, irresponsibility, etc.

      I don’t think there is a soulmate or other half out there, and I don’t think we should waste our time or energy trying to find the ‘right one’, thinking there’s only one. We need to find someone we like and love and respect, someone who shares many of our goals and values, someone we find attractive, someone who likes, loves and respects us and finds us attractive and SHOWS it. And then we need to BUILD a good, solid relationship, together, and keep building it, maintaining it, enjoying it,and feeling gratitude for all the positive things it brings into our lives.

      And there are multiple such potential mates out there. We need to look for them, find them, pick them, work WITH them, not look for magic.

      • Karen,
        I agree on the part “should read, ‘love makes us blind to the reality of the other person, and of the relationship’.”

        regardless, I thought it was beautiful and I wanted to share it. Sometimes little hope and little magic can work wonders…

    • But I TOTALLY agree with this part;

      ‘Perhaps we need to spend more time focusing on ourselves, instead of focusing on someone to be with. Connect with our passions, our interests, and what fills us up. In living life to the fullest extent–out there, engaged in life, following our passions in the midst of others.’

  • “The first step towards recovery needs you to commit to change. And while you’ve probably said you are sorry a million times before to keep the peace, have you made a full apology? This is one that acknowledges your unhelpful behaviour (eg taking him for granted), accepts your responsibility (you’ve been so wrapped up in the children you’ve forgotten to be a wife as well as a mother), expresses sorrow and a determination to change, and is sincere.”

    I DID all this. All it did was earn me more humiliation, and the comment from my IC ‘you and he have taught me a lot about affairs and insult to injury, and your toleration for insult Patsy, is extremely high’.

    Sorry, Andrew: it doesn’t work and you shouldn’t give people the idea they have any control over someone else’s way of being. However, it wasn’t all a waste of time – for my personal growth. I am not the person I was, and paradoxically feel a lot more sure in myself than I ever did looking to a narcissist for love and affirmation.

  • How is it that I just saw this? Holy mother of all that’s unholy, who the actual f%#k is this guy?

  • For the record: I DID apologise to my husband. That is, I would like to grow and learn out of this nightmare, fix my picker and learn to be a better human being.
    So I owned my part to play, and apologised for the anger and resentment and looking to him to change, that I really should have handled better.

    I did it for me, not him. But in any case it made no difference, because narcissists cannot take accountability, they cannot do insight and they cannot meet you half way. That’s on him. But this is not a relationship thing, Mr Marshall. It is a character thing.

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