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Jesus Cheaters in the News

mcallistersAnd speaking of Jesus cheaters…

Many alert chumps have sent me the news articles about U.S. congressman Vance McAllister (R-La.), and married father of five, caught on surveillance video passionately kissing a staffer.

It’s almost so ho-hum, I hesitated to write about it. Yet another Bible-thumping politician running on “family values” getting caught canoodling with someone who isn’t his long-suffering spouse. He’s not terribly original. No cabana boys or public restroom blow jobs. His affair partner is a “self-described cosmetologist” or rather was until she donated money to him and became his “scheduling assistant.”

Also yesterday, megachurch pastor Bob Coy resigned his gazillion dollar ministry Calvary Chapel (with 20,000 members) because of “moral failing.”

What’s Reverend Bob going to do with his newfound free time? “He will now focus his full attention on his personal relationship with God and his family.”

Yeah, something tells me those relationships have been neglected for awhile…

Now I know folks are going to bring up the failings of cheaters on the left, odious narcissists as well, undoubtably. But there is something unique about the Jesus cheaters, who not only use religion and “family values” as short-hand for “I’m an honorable person, elect me!”, but then use their religiosity to beat up on anyone would disagree with them. What’s more narcissistic than assuming you’re the word of God and he speaks directly to you?

Still more disgusting is the way these men (sorry, I’ve yet to see a woman cheater publicly outed this way) assume that their wives are sticking with them. Give us time while “we” work through this! Suddenly it’s a “we” problem. Of course it is. Chumpy wives, pastor or political, are still of use to their narcissists.

According to the Citizen,

Throughout last fall’s congressional campaign, McAllister, a Republican from Swartz, touted his Christian faith and in one television commercial, he asked voters to pray for him. At least two other campaign television commercials featured McAllister walking hand in hand with his wife, Kelly, while their five children walked along. One television commercial captured the McAllister family in the kitchen of their home preparing breakfast before attending church.

What is good is a political ad unless you have telegenic props? Five adorable children and a lovely wife flipping pancakes. Narcissists need a really pretty front. Don’t go away! Forgive me! Publicly, adoringly, eat the shit sandwich for Jesus.

Jesus cheaters use religion against chumps (and their voters or parishioners, another kind of chump). As my husband pointed out this morning, it’s like that Garrison Keillor joke about mosquitoes in Minnesota. The only way to kill them is with a crucifix. But you have to hit them REALLY hard with it.

Jesus cheaters whack away with their crucifixes. Overstating their piety, and then retreating into it when they’re exposed. Jesus loves me. Jesus forgives me. Why can’t you? The self pity — pray for me!

Where’s God and His lightning bolts when you need them?

Ask Chump Lady

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  • I know that all of us on this site have suffered as chumps at the hands of our cheaters and we have all suffered pain on many levels but I can’t imagine having to experience it all publicly!!!! EVERY TIME I hear or read one of these stories of yet another public official, clergy or celeb getting caught with their hand in the cookie jar I want to bitch slap them! The only thing worse than the pain of infidelity is losing a child (IMHO) and to have to experience this all so publicly must be excruciating!!! What pieces of shit!!!!

    AND…….there is a special place in hell for people like this, especially ones who use God and their children to fake their moral characters!!!!!!

    • Actually I have two friends who lost children, then had their husbands leave after cheating on them. Both said hands down that their husbands betrayal and abandonment hurt worse!

      • I can see that.

        Death is final, clean. There’s no betrayal in death. Death just happens. Death is equal opportunity pain giver, it gets everyone eventually. Death is universally understood, there’s no grey area.

        Infidelity? It’s dirty and unending. It keeps you off balance. The cheater, even if they walk away, are still out there haunting the edges of your life. There is no closure or end. People do not understand, and do not know how to behave.

        Death is at least an honest fate.

      • . . . and I know someone who lost a child and then suffered being cheated on by her husband. She was very clear that the cheating was more painful than the loss of the child.

        • I also have a cousin who went to a grief support group after losing a family member. She said the people who suffered betrayal and abandonment seemed to have it worse. It helped put in perspective the immense amount of pain I felt in the early days. They say that divorce is like death but you keep having to view the body!

      • Had this happen to me too. Husband was cheating on me all 11 years, I didn’t know though. Three years ago lost our 5th baby, still born. He ramped up his cheating after that, cause… ya…. know, he’s just a poor sinner. Have fun in the burny place dude, I hear it’s warm!

        • Julie and Sandy – I have no words – just so sorry. It’s bad enough to lose a child, something I think would be the worst event ever – but to hear you doubly hurt (or worse) from the depths of the destruction from the people who you thought loved you through those terrible ordeals. This just makes me cry.

    • The other thing that might make cheating worse than losing a child (paraphrased from stories told to me) is that with the loss of a child or any other loved one there is appropriate sympathy. Our society at least allows some bereavement time for death.

      When it comes to cheating – there is only a demoralizing black cloud. Honestly, until I came to this blog, that is all that I could find anywhere including the internet. Well intentioned friends and family, the RIC, all of it tends to bring nothing but more guilt and shame to the chump.

      Our society has no means of dealing appropriately with someone who has been cheated. We don’t even have words for the pain of infidelity or for saying “I’m so sorry for your loss.” Instead, we live in a heartless world that tells us, “Suck it up, sister.”

      Only here have I found anything that provides validation and support. Only here have I been able to really heal and heal quickly. This place. And for that, I will be eternally grateful.

      • Moda – I have found that now, when I hear people tell me their spouse cheated on them, I always say I’m so sorry for your pain. I truly understand it. Only another chump can understand what they’re going through. Maybe some people we meet aren’t chumps, maybe they’ve never been through infidelity, or just maybe they are the chump-makers..and they cannot understand.

        • I haven’t told a lot of people yet, as I’ve not filed. However, I have told a couple of people in charge of organizations I’m involved with, as they need a heads up as to why I’m not going to be as active for a couple of months. The universal reaction toward STBX so far is, and I am quoting directly, “what a jackass!”

          I don’t expect that to be universal. And I’m sure that I’ll get people who’ll wonder what I’ve done to drive him into the bed of another woman, but those people can just go piss off, as far as I’m concerned.

          • “…but those people can just go piss off, as far as I’m concerned.”

            They can, indeed. I feel exactly the same way.

    • I am new here. My stbx is a classic “Jesus cheater”. After supporting him through 7 years of education to become a minister he dumped me 6 weeks into his new career. He left me homeless and terribly emotionally crippled in a strange city with no rights to the house we lived in at the time. Oh yes, his “justafriend” is a Minister too! And her family was torn apart for their tru luv as well. Did the church Do anything??? No…

      • Ok – using my phone to reply. I would really love it CL if you could get my name off the reply. My x is a bit of a narc – just don’t need the headache right now
        Not sure how to do it myself …

      • My heart goes out to you Lisah! That’s awful! Do you have anyone in the church structure to address in this?

        • It was almost 2 years ago. God bless the women’s shelter and complete strangers as well as friends and family who helped me get through this. Geared to income housing was made available and I slowly getting back on track. But the church? Not so much. When stbx gave the parishioners the old textbook excuse of ” it’s a mutaul decision ” speech – that was good enough for them. Back to the bake sales and warm fuzzy feelings folks!!!
          He ‘a very sparkly and they have done a great job of feeding those kibbles.
          What’s a poor chump to do?

          • I am sorry to hear there wasn’t a righteous man to be found in your stbx’s church who was strong enough to ask him the hard questions (i.e. confront him). It sounds like he really needed/needs a prophetic “Nathan” experience! On the bright side, you are free of that toxic environment where people just wanted to hear that line or, eh-hum, LIE that it was “mutual.”

    • Kimmy, I have something terrible to tell you. I know someone who HAS lost a child. And then she found a few years later, that her husband coped with his terrible grief, by cheating on her.

      Do you know what she said? His cheating was worse. It was a worse grief, than her child dying.

      Society seriously minimises what hurtful stuff this is.

      CL: love your snark! Its HIS secret, but ‘suddenly it becomes a ‘we’. Ha ha!

      • Patsy, I have two good friends whose husbands did the same after their grown children died suddenly. One child an accident at college, the other had an unknown heart defect. Both husbands coped by cheating and leaving. One of the husbands completely abandoned his wife financially as well, and now she’s been diagnosed with a terminal neurological illness and lives on disability and the kindness of friends. Whenever I feel sorry for myself I just look at her and realize how grateful I am that my ex at least pays maintenance and agreed to pay it for life.

    • If your loved one dies, your good memories are intact. No one insists that you pretend it doesn’t hurt. You are allowed to grieve the death. No one blames you for your spouse’s death, or says you should have seen it coming if it was sudden. You don’t lose friends when your spouse dies. And when you find out you’ve been betrayed, no one brings you a casserole. They don’t. You are lucky if your so-called friends show real care and concern at all. The typical response is to be treated like you have some sort of highly contagious disease.

  • Where’s God and His lightning bolts when you need them?

    I’ve asked that question many, many times. I spoke to my priest about my husband cheating. Any of you folks would like to wager a guess of what he told me ?

    I’m responsible ! If I was there for him he wouldn’t have to cheat. What the fuck???
    I really don’t know where my faith went … out the window!

    Then I discovered :- my priest has a mistress!!!
    Heard the rumors, never believed it until I SAW him.
    Where are the honest people???

    • Well, not that it’s much consolation, at least you can consider the source now. He blamed you because he’s a cheater too, so it wasn’t really you.

      But all the same he’s a priest. And it’s shameful beyond words.

      • Ah, those pesky vows of celibacy! Unless he’s an Episcopal priest, of course, but if he were an Episcopal priest, he’d have no need for a mistress (unless he’s cheating on his wife).

        But yes, clergy have a special place in the Jesus Cheater Hall of Shame. It’s one thing for smug politicians to drap themselves in their piety and family values, and another for clergy, who ought to be taking the whole God business a lot more seriously. Both are hypocrites, but the clergy cheaters take it to a whole different level.

        • Orthodox priests can marry before they take their final vows. Once they take those final vows they pledge chastity if they are not married.

          • One of the worst cheating stories I’ve ever heard was about an Episcopal priest. Cheated with a parishioner who he was counseling, lied to everyone about it, divorced his wife after the mistress divorced also, and married her. She wore a white bridal gown and they were married by the Bishop. Meanwhile, his wife lost their home to foreclosure. This low life was allowed to remain a priest.

    • Yeah, well, I’m assuming that if he’s a priest, he’s Catholic. And I’m sorry, this whole celibacy thing for priests is too much for me (and obviously for him too…). It’s not like he has the option of marrying her–perhaps he’s behind the scenes hoping the CC will reform their stance on celibate clergy…

      Plus, that too is not new. There are old wells in Europe that (if you are squeamish, skip this)

      are full of infant skeletons from the offspring of priests.

      • BTW, that post does not mean I think the priest had any justification for the shit he shovelled on you for your cheater. I don’t. There is no place for dumping your shit on others like that.

    • My pastor told me to divorce my cheater, to not take the easy road and pretend nothing happened, and to recognize that people rarely change. He was and is very supportive. In fact, the entire pastoral staff have been amazing through everything.

      • There are good clergy out there. I think cheaters come from all walks of life. I grew up knowing and loving people of many faiths. In my experience good people seem to live by those Golden Rules, across all faiths.

        • Yup, same here. My pastor, his wife and other church members actually helped me and the children with moving away from my toxic cheater. Not once did any of them say to me that I should stick it out or keep quiet and try to spackle over his crappy behaviour. It is my faith and their support that have helped me through this (and Chump Lady).
          I would argue that anyone who is married and cheating on their spouse, is a hypocrite: they are trading on the expectation and the image that they are devoted to their marriage and family values, but in truth it is all a facade to cover up their rotten actions.

          • Yep. Affairs are fantasies in a lot of ways. Not only do cheaters get the romance fantasy, but also the respectability fantasy.

          • I had the same experience Mai Mai! In fact it was my church family that helped me to see that living with a serial cheating man who had no intention of changing was no way to leave.. They did not once sugar coat it or blame me but even though I was new to the church & to the country ( moved from the UK), they gave me so much love, support and courage & I would forever be grateful to them & to CL & Chump nation.

  • Jesus cheaters must be the worst. Total mindfuck for religious chumps.

    I didn’t have to deal with that personally, since my cheating ex is a worldly heathen (snort). Actually, I’ve several times been quite grateful of this. It would have been worse if he were being a spiritual hypocrite throughout all of it. That was never an issue because my ex always believed his authority to be the highest (God who?) and never even tried to be religious.

    Seriously, though, I’m grateful I didn’t have to deal with hypocrisy on top of the cheating and everything else.

  • My ex-husband was a Zen Cheater. He was so into Zen Buddism. He was always reading a book about lovingkindness. He had a huge reputation for being “centered.” He carried spiders out of the house on newspaper, rather than killing them. He was vegetarian and wouldn’t wear or use leather. But, he couldn’t manage to show me, the woman who adored him, any consideration that resembled that which he showed animals and strangers. I will never understand it.

    • One thing Buddhism and Christianity have in common is they both pretty plainly say that adultery is wrong. Buddhism says that sexual misconduct or sex that brings harm to another is wrong.

      I don’t know how he could possibly have justified cheating and still call himself “centered.” That’s just messed up. I’m willing to bet his “Buddha” like appearance and practice was a lot of westernized bullshit. He couldn’t have been taking it all that seriously. A few spiders on newspapers does not a master make.

      • LOL, perhaps we should interview Tiger Woods and ask how he reconciles his Faith (the whole Eight-fold path and Right Action parts specifically) with his actions when he was married?

        Sometimes, I think it’s safe to assume, alleged morality and faith are part of the mask and the whole “I am much better than most of you” entitlement of some people.

      • In his mind, his Buddhism was serious. The operative phrase there is, “in his mind.” I suppose he was a master at compartmentalizing. His beliefs were one thing, his cheating was another. Incidentally, no one but our children believed the truth. He had everyone fooled, including me, but to my credit, I’m not someone who tolerates fools, and cheaters are fools. The story of our marriage was that he had it all together and that I was some sort of loose cannon, even though there was nothing to support any of that. I’m as stable as the day is long and I’ve had a respectable life, full of accomplishments, loving relationships, and just generally a whole lot of good things. But, his life was full of folks (his parents, friends) who believed he was a near Saint (for no real reason, other than he was sparkly) and I was so lucky to have him. Getting out from under the betrayal and the fog of being seen as the fortunate recipient of his grandness, it’s been priceless. The reality is, he was lucky to have me.

        • It’s funny Carol, because I think for so many of us chumps, we perceived at least that we were lucky to have our exes. But as we crawl out of the mire in which they left us for dead, we see that we were the sane, reliable, centered, talented ones all along. Yes, they never knew how lucky they were.

    • The ability of these freaks to compartmentalize and rationalize is truly something to wonder at.

      Integrity — The state of being whole and undivided.

      These frauds will never ever know true integrity and accordingly will never know the real, honest peace of being comfortable just being who you are. Neither will anyone who is unfortunate enough to become emotionally entangled with them.

  • As an evangelical pastor (and chump), I got a front-row seat in the blame-the-chump and you’re-less-than-if-you-don’t-reconcile religious game. In fact, I had to go through a denominational trial in order to keep my minister’s license because my ex cheated on me and abandoned me (i.e. left and divorced me). It was replete with affidavits and roughly 3 hour long deposition with three other pastors interviewing me. Fun, fun.

    Add to all of this my ex’s counselors and parents trying to lecture me on how I should live my life in making a righteous marriage all the while their daughter or “friend” is screwing around with men she met at bars. Making it even richer: my cheating ex is a marriage and family counselor who literally relaunched her private practice billed as a CHRISTIAN counseling practice (she bolded this on her new website) as she continued to commit adultery and to lie to me about it. I had to just shake my head at how life can be so much stranger than fiction.

    Like the Pharisees and Teachers of the Law in Jesus’ day, the worse offenders and ones Jesus rebuked the harshest are usually found within the “church” walls.

    • I think the religious attack was the most painful and messed with my head the most because I thought I could actually get accepted through performing for them (my ex and her parents). The game was rigged, obviously. They had no intention of supporting the marriage. Oh, well. I am better off without them now. So glad that chapter is over.

    • I am sorry for what you had to go through, Full-Steam-Ahead.
      The denominational trial is the twisting the knife in the gut, after your wife stabbed you.

      • ” In fact, I had to go through a denominational trial in order to keep my minister’s license because my ex cheated on me and abandoned me (i.e. left and divorced me). It was replete with affidavits and roughly 3 hour long deposition with three other pastors interviewing me. ”

        Holy shit FSA! That’s absolutely ridiculous–I’m so sorry.

        The only thing remotely similar to that is that my H and I had to go through a tribunal to get married, because it was his 2nd marriage (his wife left him to find herself)–and honestly, our minister really made it meaningful and helpful, as opposed to judgemental.

      • I appreciate the empathy, zyx321. Very true about the twisting of the knife.

        Thankfully, I successfully made it through the ecclesiastical trial. But it truly compounded my suffering in all of this. The church officials even contacted my ex (against my expressed wishes considering her demonstrated and admitted pathological propensity to lie) and allowed her to provide a sealed statement (i.e. I didn’t get to even defend myself from her lies) in the trial over my license. Also, they already had an email from her admitting to sexual activity with another man and lying to me about it! I am glad it is over, but these actions definitely destroyed trust in them.

        • Ugh! FSA, that’s terrible!

          I understand that religious institutions (trying to be broader than Christian here) are no more nor less righteous than the general population, but some of the mechanisms seem so unfair! One wonders if you’d have to be dragged over the same coals if you were accused of child molesting, or if there would be more mechanisms in place to protect you!

          It seems very odd that the institution would want to make you stay married to someone who committed adultery. I understand marital vows, but two people swear them. It’s a contract between the individuals, with God as witness. Your wife broke them. The divorce merely recognizes that fact.

        • An acquaintance of mine went through the same thing and lost his denominational license. Lost his marriage, children and job due to his wife’s selfishness.

          • I am sorry to hear that, ANR, but I am not terribly surprised. It is just sickening. Not how it should be. I am convinced too many churches view divorcing as the offense and don’t really care about the adultery beforehand so much in practice.

    • Yeah…life at times seems stranger than fiction..

      You ex an her family have hijacked religion. It’s sickening how they treated you.

        • Yes, they did, P.F. As I good friend of mine from seminary told me in the midst of the madness, I had a front-row view of what’s wrong with rigid, ’80s, fundamentalist religion in seeing my ex and her parents in this.

          I know the problem wasn’t my relationship with Jesus for I am convinced that was the only thing that kept me alive at my darkest point in 2012. Jesus had a low opinion of Pharisees, too.

          • FSA, I’m so sorry for your having to go through that. It would have pushed me right over the edge if I had to deal with betrayal and persecution on the work/faith front too! In fact I found such comfort through my faith and my church, I don’t know what I’d have done without it. So terrible for you to be attacked in a place that should have provided comfort.

            • Thanks, Lyn. It nearly pushed me over the edge as well. Good thing I DID have some good Christian family members and friends in this as well. It was lay friends in the denomination and ministers/chaplains from outside that helped me the most.

          • FSA –

            So sorry you had to go through that, but so relieved you’re on the better side of things. I grew up as a pastor’s daughter, and although my dad was a great man, I did see some seedy inner-workings of religion (he had two staffers with “issues” – one cheated on his wife with men; the other groped a teenage girl – both were fired immediately and the one was prosecuted) and had to find my way back to faith as an adult. I’ve learned not confuse the greatness of God with the screw-ups of people – especially those who claim to be “His chosen”. People screw up – God is faithful. Praying for peace, grace, and healing for you.

            • I’m not Christian myself, but one thing I can say for sure about any religion, is the moment someone claims to be chosen by God, spoken to by God, or absolved of any and all sins by God and that means you should too, they usually have either no clue what they are talking about or have something really bad they are trying avoid responsibility for.

            • I agree, ReDefiningMe: “People screw up – God is faithful.” I have no doubt about that. He has given me beauty for ashes! I am now remarried to amazing woman with her adorable little toddler. Plus, I am moving ahead in my work field. God is good, always.

          • FSA, how you survived that all-out assault on you, I don’t know. Wow. I bet you that now you are a better minister than you ever were.

            Have you come across ‘I don’t love you any more’ by Dr David Clark? A christian psychologist, he says that the ‘counselling’ given by a lot of churches (forgive, don’t challenge him, make nice) is completely unbiblical, wrong, and guaranteed to destroy the marriage.

            He only focusses on the SIN of the cheater, their selfishness and fall, and practices Matthew 19 complete with shunning.

            He is very tough on adulterers.

            • Patsy, I read some of the reviews for the book you recommended, the one by Clark. I read over all the one-star reviews at Amazon’s site, and what I saw was alarming.

              I do think a lot of churches today go way too easy on the adulterer, to the point they blame the cheated-on spouse for divorcing the cheater and treat that person like garbage (which they should not do), but I’m not so sure that the methods Clark doles out (as described by the book reviews I read) would work or be healthy for anyone involved.

      • CL,

        I am in the process of leaving and working on my “exit interview” (which they currently do not know is coming). It’s hard for me to leave as I do have good friends in the denomination who were supportive, but for my own sanity and integrity, I have decided I have to move on. I feel like a true chump in this as well–over-investing in a denomination not worthy of such an investment apparently.

  • Washington is the Hollywood for ugly people.

    Narcissists, lacking in movie star looks seem to gravitate to politics. To get elected they espouse family values, religion, being just a regular person who cares about the poor and middle class. Yep….it’s a narcissists wet dream to reach a level of power and been seen as an icon for the greater good of their country.

    Jesus Cheaters have an ultimate trump card….what’s more Christian than forgiveness. A Jesus cheater has a get out of jail free card…yep…if you’re a true Christian you believe in forgiveness and what’s more narcissistic than a reoffending self forgiver.

    Narcissists embrace religion, it’s a clever smoke screen that they use effectively to feed their ego and thirst for recognition and power.

    • Jinx,

      Forgiveness isn’t the same thing as reconciliation. One chooses to give up one’s rightful claim of retribution against the offender in forgiveness handing them over to God for God to do as God will. It frees the forgiver. Reconciliation is a different matter. It requires rebuilding trust and restitution plus needs the commitment of both persons to work.

      Forgiveness is a necessary step to “Meh.” Without it, we–chumps–will get stuck in bitterness and cynicism. Plus, it puts us in a place of power where we can do something to free ourselves. Forgiveness is a process just as healing is a process and may start with simply the desire to be free of the hurtful emotions towards’ our exes. But just because we forgive our exes does NOT MEAN we should remarry them. In fact, it may be wiser to keep our distance permanently.

      • “Like”. I agree Full-steam-ahead. Forgiveness is for the chump, not the cheater. It does not mean you have to stay with them, it just helps you accept that they suck quicker.

      • EXACTLY, FSA!

        Plus, I would like to add that because it’s for the CHUMP’s healing:

        1) The cheater (or anyone in the family or community) doesn’t get to demand the chump hurries up and forgives and moves on,
        2) The chump’s forgiveness does, in NO way, justify the behaviour of the cheater,
        3) The chump’s forgiveness does not translate in any way, shape or form to the chump giving up boundaries that have been set up for the CHUMP’s (and chump kids) protection.

      • Full-Steam-Ahead

        I understand that forgiveness isn’t reconciliation and that forgiving doesn’t mean forgetting.
        But is forgiveness really a necessary step to Meh? I find it hard to even think about forgiving him because I haven’t been given an apology nor have I seen remorse. Maybe he did some things that I really couldn’t forgive? I don’t know because he hasn’t been at all forthcoming with that information. I am going to leave the forgiving to whatever god he deals with and get to Meh without needing to do anything for him and certainly without needing anything from him.

        • If I could try to paraphrase?

          Forgiveness, in what I believe FSA is saying, is letting go for your visceral desire for blood for the bullshit that asshole inflicted on you.

          It’s the ability to give that rightful anger to God, the universe, a Higher Power, the karma bus, the Wiccan 3-fold rule (I think that’s what it’s called, I have to check it), or whatever you believe in, so that you’re not burdened with the baggage on your journey to Meh.

          Does that make sense?

          • I agree with Chump in the Sand here (and above). Yes, it is the idea of giving up that revenge -seeking part of yourself. And I would add that forgiveness is a choice, not a feeling. It takes will-power to forgive.

            • I think it takes will power and time. I was eager to forgive to get rid of the horrible feelings, but it was a lot harder than I imagined. I hope I get there some day, but it might take years.

          • Chump in the Sand

            That makes sense and so does what FSA says. The rightful anger I had was what helped propel me out of the situation. I don’t feel that anymore. I don’t feel anything about him anymore. I just can’t imagine forgiving without any work being done on the other side. It wouldn’t seem valid? Forgiving without knowing everything is IMO condoning and I won’t do that. I have just accepted he is what he is and I am very glad he isn’t with me anymore. He just doesn’t matter.

            • Forgiveness requires that we know what we are forgiving. For example, I forgave and forgive (it’s a process) my ex-wife for cheating on me with other men including one in particular. I don’t know how many men or how long this was happening, but I choose to forgive what I do know (i.e. she cheated with multiple men over an extended period of time).

              Ask yourself: Do you want to be held hostage to your ex choosing to confess? This may never happen. I will probably never know how many men or for how long my ex was cheating on me. I choose to move on and forgive more specifically if she ever confesses in the future (but I am not holding my breath on that number).

              • Well when you put it that way… 🙂
                It is just so messed up that someone could do this stuff and hurt the person that they supposedly love. It is very sad. I know that accepting and letting go and, yes, eventually forgiving is the healthy way to move on and be whole. Thank you for the insight.

        • Great discussion – forgiveness for me was letting MYSELF off the hook too – of feeling I needed to wait for acknowlegement or apology (which will never come) and of feeling the need for some sort of me-inflicted justice or revenge.

          It was defined for me as turning the judgement over to God – and letting go of MY part in that judgement. Untangling the skein; figuring out what part his FOO issues played – all that mind-clogging shi* is no longer my burden. God is all knowing, wise, and the perfect judge. He’ll deal out the proper penalty, at the proper time, and I’m FREE of it all.

          And yes, it’s not always over. When exH does something new, or I discover a new lie, I have to do it all over again. But it does get easier, and my heart and mind are free of the toxic mess he created – that’s not my burden to carry anymore. Just my two cents…

            • Me too. I pray every night for God to help me forgive myself, to help me forgive my ex, and to send His love to us both. It seems to help.

      • “But just because we forgive our exes does NOT MEAN we should remarry them. In fact, it may be wiser to keep our distance permanently.”

        I’d also like to add that even though we may forgive, there still are consequences of their behaviors. There are some churches that will excommunicate you for such behaviors.

        I also hate when people add that we must forget. Even though you forgive you are still left with the memories and the pain associated with those memories. It’s impossible for mere mortals to completely forget.

        • Yes, there are consequences for our choices even if we forgive. And yes, we will always remember what happened. Because it DID happen. Forgiving is not about excusing, either. It happened. It was wrong. And I am choosing not to allow my ex’s bad behavior to rent my brain space and heart space anymore.

      • FSA, my religious bonafides are that I’m a preacher’s kid, UMC. To me forgiveness is “I don’t wish you dead. There. Consider yourself forgiven.” It’s meh. It’s not inconsistent with disgust and NC and outrage at the injustice. It’s just — I don’t give you the power to hurt me any longer.

        I HATE how chumps are guilted into forgiving. It’s a totally personal thing and I would never presume to tell chumps they must forgive their cheaters to move forward. I realize everyone is different.

        • Hmm… I actually do wish my ex were dead. Not like I’m actively praying to God for him to die, but he really is a negative force in this world, not just toward me and his kids but also toward the unsuspecting population at large. Without going into too many details, he is a dangerous perpetrator who should be behind bars. Am I running around actively wishing death upon him? No. And I have accepted who he is and what he did to me/ our marriage/ our family. But I have no desire to forgive either his past or his ongoing transgressions. Someone yesterday wrote that forgiveness first requires repentance and repair of damages done. So actually seems appropriate that forgiveness is not forthcoming…

        • “I HATE how chumps are guilted into forgiving.”

          I totally agree with you there, Tracy. That’s why I appreciate this discussion about the nature of forgiveness, because, invariably, someone is going to bring the”f” word into it as a way to abuse or manipulate the chump into toeing some kind of party line for the cheating bastard/bitch’s benefit. I believe having a better understanding of what forgiveness can look like can take away that power from the abusive people.

          “It’s a totally personal thing”–exactly. It IS personal to the chump–that’s why no other person has the right to demand it. That’s why it innately sticks in our craw when we hear someone throwing it in a chump’s face.

          “I would never presume to tell chumps they must forgive their cheaters to move forward.”

          Forgiveness is a process. So is moving forward. I don’t think talking about how forgiveness (as it’s defined as a form of letting go, and refusing to hold ourselves or the other person hostage to our anger) can be an important part of the process is the same as insisting on it. I think it’s different if you are a person who is there for the chump, and truly have their back. Then you are there to support the process that the chump is choosing to go through when THEY are ready, not because you think they should be.

          Having said that, because you, Tracy, are a blogger, and not there IRL for each and every one of us chumps, yeah, it could really sound trite and contrived if you told people they MUST forgive–and far too echo-ey of the snake oil reconciliation movement. Plus, I admire that if you don’t own it, you don’t write it.

        • Well, I am a Christian pastor/chaplain, and Jesus did actually command forgiveness of all His followers. So, that is my bias to be fair to everyone reading my comments.

          And I would agree with your statement: “I HATE how chumps are guilted into forgiving.” But I suspect this guilting into forgiveness isn’t really what the guilting party is seeking. If they really cared about the chump, they would allow time for the chump to make this choice on their own or not (as I agree, too, this is a personal choice thing). I suspect those guilting chumps just want to shut-up the chump from crying out in pain from the real damage the cheater has done or worse yet…excuse/justify the cheater.

          Also, I would reiterate that forgiveness is a choice not a feeling. It would be unhealthy not to have outrage concerning the wickedness perpetrated against us by our cheating former spouses. And it would be unwise to forget such significant betrayal as that would make us vulnerable to future danger. Forgiveness is a choice, a process, and not a matter of forgetting.

          Finally, what you describe as “Meh” in this blog strikes me as very much akin to this state of forgiveness. You call it a state of “Meh,” and I call it a state of forgiveness. In neither case is the heinous nature of the wrong-doing/cheating ever excused or justified. And it takes time to get to “Meh” just as it takes time to get to a state of forgiveness.

          • FSA, you might want to check out the Forgiveness Project and Archbishop Desmond Tutu’s entry in particular. I like it very much and quote it here often.

            To forgive is not just to be altruistic. It is the best form of self-interest. It is also a process that does not exclude hatred and anger. These emotions are all part of being human. You should never hate yourself for hating others who do terrible things: the depth of your love is shown by the extent of your anger.

            However, when I talk of forgiveness I mean the belief that you can come out the other side a better person. A better person than the one being consumed by anger and hatred. Remaining in that state locks you in a state of victimhood, making you almost dependent on the perpetrator. If you can find it in yourself to forgive then you are no longer chained to the perpetrator. You can move on, and you can even help the perpetrator to become a better person too.

            But the process of forgiveness also requires acknowledgement on the part of the perpetrator that they have committed an offence. I don’t like to talk about my own personal experience of forgiveness, although some of the things people have tried to do to my family are close to what I’d consider unforgivable. I don’t talk about these things because I have witnessed so many incredible people who, despite experiencing atrocity and tragedy, have come to a point in their lives where they are able to forgive. Take the Craddock Four, for example. The police ambushed their car, killed them in the most gruesome manner, set their car alight. When, at a TRC hearing, the teenage daughter of one of the victims was asked: would you be able to forgive the people who did this to you and your family? She answered, “We would like to forgive, but we would just like to know who to forgive.” How fantastic to see this young girl, still human despite all efforts to dehumanise her.
            http://theforgivenessproject.com/stories/desmond-tutu-south-africa/

            • “…when I talk of forgiveness I mean the belief that you can come out the other side a better person. A better person than the one being consumed by anger and hatred. Remaining in that state locks you in a state of victimhood, making you almost dependent on the perpetrator. If you can find it in yourself to forgive then you are no longer chained to the perpetrator. You can move on, and you can even help the perpetrator to become a better person too.”

              I totally agree with this statement as far as my understanding is understood. However, I do not agree forgiveness requires the perpetrator to admit to wrongdoing for that would make the above statement impossible to achieve. You would remained permanently dependent upon the perpetrator until he/she chose to admit wrongdoing. And that may never happen.

              I see forgiveness as unilateral and reconciliation needing the second step of admittance of wrongdoing. Forgiveness is a “letting go” as you aptly described above in the paragraph I just quoted. However, I would never suggest we minimize the wrong or evil. Perhaps that is what some are getting at about not forgiving? I will never say what happened to me was “okay.” That is not forgiveness as I see it.

              Last fall, I sat through a lecture by a survivor of Dr. Mengele’s twin experiments, Eva Mozes Kor. She talked about forgiveness and forgiving Dr. Mengele. To her, this was an act of power where she forgave the god of Auschwitz. This act freed her, and she attributed this act to her good psychological health at this advanced age where her survivor peers are struggling.

              Forgiveness is an important thing to do and is not altruism (agreed!). It is a gift you give yourself and a way to cut ties with your abuser by taking control. By the way, what Eva described is accurate to research I encountered on trauma and forgiveness while working in the VA Health Care System.

          • “Well, I am a Christian pastor/chaplain, and Jesus did actually command forgiveness of all His followers.”

            But…

            Did Jesus command us to IMMEDIATELY forgive…?

            G.

            • Gypsy57,

              You are correct that Jesus did not command immediate forgiveness. A deadline wasn’t given in the command 😉

      • I don’t know if I agree that forgiveness is a necessary step to meh and without it I’m destined to wallow in bitterness. I don’t forgive my ex for his serial cheating, and even more importantly I don’t forgive him for nearly ruining me completely financially. As it is, I’m about 20 years behind where I should be in my career due to this mess and I doubt I’ll have a very comfortable retirement. I don’t forgive him for doing that to me, or for leaving the kids with not just emotional scars but the fear of losing everything, even the roof over their heads.

        I don’t dwell on it but no, I don’t forgive him. I leave it and I have moved on but I will not forgive him the pain and fear he caused in my life and my kids’ lives. It was unnecessary and unconscionable.

        • I’m kinda in agreement with you. I actually agree with both FSA and you though.

          I agree that forgiveness for the Chump is not an absolution of the cheater and it’s more of a personal step. I definitely agree that it’s possible to “let go” of the cheater and no longer give them the power to hurt you. And I also agree that forgiveness should not mean forgetting. You can forgive a cheater, or anyone who hurt you, but that doesn’t mean you need to let them back in your house. One thing that I will never understand about my father-in-law is the attitude he takes with my husband’s abusive brother. His brother tried to throw him over a balcony three years ago. On top of that, he has wildly uncontrolled anger issues and has never given a sincere apology in his life. He’s a pathological liar and didn’t even think twice about lying to make himself look good. We would repeatedly catch him in lie after lie after lie. We even caught him telling lies and omitting details of certain events about us. And when we confronted him about it, evidence in hand he would lie about lying!! Would make crocodile tears and claim he was being ganged up on and end up avoiding responsibility, fake an apology and then would turn around and immediately lie to someone outside the family about how he was being treated at home. He would throw things, scream, and even get physically violent.

          After several failed family therapy sessions, and a few months later, my FIL says that we should be like Jesus and forgive him. And then was surprised when we said no. I said that perhaps someday down the road, very likely many YEARS from now, if at all, we could forgive for our own sake, but even if that were to occur, we would still not allow his younger brother into our lives ever again. We can forgive, but not forget. My FIL, who is a minister, said this:

          “When Jesus died on the cross to forgive man’s sins, God forgot everything.”

          And this is after this ordeal.

          I just looked at him and said, “Well, that wasn’t very smart of him, now was it? I’m not God. Under no circumstances will I forget.”

          Seriously, how can I be expected to forget that my own brother-in-law tried to throw my husband over a balcony? How can my husband be expected to forget that?

          Forgiving doesn’t need to mean forgetting. But when it comes to the pain of abuse, it’s very, very difficult to forgive.

          • I really don’t understand forgiveness myself. I understand acceptance and in researching what forgiveness really means to people I think acceptance is very much the same thing. I accept what happened to me could not have been any other way, and I learned from it, and I go forward from here. I don’t hate my ex, he is a sick person who is and always will be miserable, occasionally I even feel a touch of pity for him. I think how sad it must be to go through life never loving or feeling loved. It took a while to reach that point, my ex had me arrested on false charges and when that didn’t bring me in line he came within a fingers twitch of shooting me. I know for a fact that if he thought he could get away with killing me, without going to jail, I would be dead. I spent a long time in therapy working through the trauma. Then I had to stop blaming myself for staying with a fucked up person for so long (this is accepting myself). I reached a point of peace and acceptance some time ago. However, this does not extend to being completely free of fear. I have my PO and he is afraid to go to jail, I did have a serious relapse on the PTSD issues when it came time to renew my PO last year, thankfully the judge ignored ex and renewed it. His brother is my friend, he doesn’t speak to my ex but he keeps tabs talking to their mother and he lets me know if something is way fucked up with my ex so I can go on guard. If I were in no danger from the asshole I would not think of him at any longer. As it is, I’ve internalized Gift of Fear advice; Do everything you can to mitigate any danger and stop worrying about it. Mostly I can do that, lately I even forgot to turn on my home alarm system. But I still have to check who’s in the white XXX model car next to me, it’s become automatic so I don’t freak out anymore, it’s just simple normal defense to me now. One thing that has bothered me lately (it’s new) is that I sometimes wake up and the thought comes to me unbidden; “today he died” and not in any hateful way, just a matter of fact peaceful way. So far it hasn’t been true. However awful it may sound; if my ex died I would have complete peace in my mind because that little corner of it would no longer have to be on guard against his reappearance. The person who looked at me with calculating eyes and didn’t shoot me, that person could never threaten me again.

            • I’m must not be at meh yet. Forgiveness still feels like a blanket pass for all the philandering. Acceptance is my goal, but the best word I can come up with thus far is “acknowledgement” that my cheater is disordered and will never change. I no longer own that exclusive real estate known as his happiness.

          • Expectation for victims (for lack of better term here) to forget is one of the most unrealistic forgiveness fallacies out there. To me, it borders on being abusive.

            You can forgive and forget someone accidentally stepping on your toe. You can forgive and forget someone who cut in front of you out of greed.

            You can’t “forgive and forget” life-altering, abusive, betraying actions. Forgive, depending on the working definition, yes, but forget? No fuckin’ way.

            I personally think someone who tells a chump to forgive and forget is doing it so that the chump will take away protective boundaries, so that they can go on hurting them. Not to mention to guilt them into extra spackle. Nun-uhn.

            • “You can forgive and forget someone who cut in front of you out of greed”.

              Hmm…

              Doesn’t the AP “cut in front” of us in our relationship? Isn’t the WS the one who ALLOWS the AP to cut in front of us?

              G.

              • I mean something minor, like in a traffic jam or a checkout line.

                Something life-altering like cheating–asking a person to forget a marriage that failed, and the pain they went through? Not so much.

          • “And when we confronted him about it, evidence in hand he would lie about lying!! Would make crocodile tears and claim he was being ganged up on and end up avoiding responsibility, fake an apology and then would turn around and immediately lie to someone outside the family about how he was being treated at home.”

            This sounds like my ex after I threw him out. It was all lies and when I flatly pointed out that things he said were lies he would either rage or weep and then say he was being abused and shit on because, you know, consequences. He doesn’t like those at all. And he continues to lie about so many things, most of them unimportant, that it astounds me. I wonder how many things he lied about during our marriage. I’ll guess many, many, many things. And although it would be interesting to know, I no longer give enough of a shit to look into it.

            And forgiveness? I have no need to give it. I have let go and that’s good enough for me.

            • Sometimes I hear stories of prisoners of war meeting their abusive prison guards 30 years later and becoming friends. Or drunk drivers teaming up with the parent of a family member who was killed in the crash and giving talks about the dangers of drunk driving. Or victims of crime making peace with the criminals who harmed them. In all of these cases there seems to be some acknowledgement of the pain one caused to the other.

              My husband did say he knew he hurt me deeply. He didn’t apologize for it, though. He basically blamed me for causing him to cheat. So the mixed messages of knowing you hurt someone, but blaming them for causing you to hurt them makes it hard to forgive. I do my best to give the confusing situation to God and move forward with my life, and that gives me more peace than anything. Perhaps some day I’ll be able to look back and realize my life is much better than it was before the betrayal, and it was all for the best. However the pain of our family breaking apart is probably going to be there forever. I do believe God removed me from a very painful situation that wasn’t going to get better. I didn’t realize how messed up it was until a year after my ex left and I found the document where he outlined his deep love and adoration for his married coworker.

          • I do not want to love the unlovable or reach the unreachable or attain the impossible. that is some trite bullshit in that video.

  • The OW was a big time “Christian”. She left the chuch because it allowed gay priests and didn’t condemn abortion. She wore her religion like cheap perfume. My partner and I were never religious, for me ,in large part because I was raised by a poor me religious fanatic mother, who to this day uses her religion to show everyone how special she is. These life experiences have left me so jaded about religion. It just seems to be used as a cover or an excuse for bad behavior.

    What pisses me off even more is how these cheaters are so quickly welcomed back into the fold. Off to rehab you go and all of a sudden-poof-you are magically transformed. Now, the OW has launched an anti-choice campaign and has been welcomed into the Catholic Church. I was at a recent function where a lay Catholic minister(whatever in the fuck that means) lit into me about what a great person she is and how I’ve ruined her reputation. Funny, I thought she did that all by herself.

    Although I have the gift of time, which has helped me heal, what happened to me and my kids was also very public and we still bear the scars of that awful time. I know this sounds crazy, but I was almost as pissed off about who he fucked as I was about the fact he fucked her-a sanctimonious hypocrite who uses Jesus as her wingman.

    • It’s a question of spin-doctoring, and how good church people are about spotting bullshit. And I gotta say, church people who can call bullshit–they’re not particularly popular with other members of the church, so their input is not likely to be as much a part of the group mentality.

      Narks are sparkly, and wouldn’t be successful at it if they couldn’t pull it off.

    • Louise, I was told I ruined ex’s rep, mainly because I didn’t keep what happened under wraps. This means that I didn’t go along with the ‘we grew apart and these things happen’ narrative and instead told the truth: he’s a serial cheater who lied to me for years. This is considered ‘ruining his reputation’ in certain quarters, and maybe seen as An Act of Revenge or The Actions of a Woman Scorned.

      Whatever. He cheated. A lot. I eventually found out. We divorced as a result. That’s the story and it’s the truth. If his reputation has taken a hit that’s all on him.

      • Oh, puh-LEEZE!

        It’s not like you said he was beheading bunnies in front of kindergarteners during the Easter season. You told the truth.

        He got the reputation he deserves based on his OWN actions. Period.

        And the people who are shocked because their hero has clay feet need to get their own therapist to learn to deal with reality.

    • “She wore her religion like a cheap perfume.” Love this phrasing, which so perfectly sums up the problem with religious posers. It’s as though faith is some kind of accessory or costume to be put on and taken off at will, instead of (as it should be) a living breathing part of who you are and how you live. I can’t even imagine how upsetting it must have been, on top of everything else, to be confronted by a minister about what *you* supposedly did wrong. More power to you for finding your healing. I hope I get there, too. It really is a bitch when there’s been media scrutiny involved.

      I also really relate to what you said about it not being just about the cheating itself, but equally the choice in AP. My X was targeted by a very vapid but uber-manipulative and completely self-involved do-gooder with an unctuous social media presence and an Agenda with a capital A. Her behaviour was so obvious as to be cartoonish, but to my X? “She’s a really good person!” Ultimately, of course, he bears responsibility because he could always have rebuffed her advances. And he chose not to. Having said this, though, she was and still is “a sanctimonious hypocrite” as well as a lying, phony, conniving, backstabbing fraud. If I don’t wish her any ill, it’s not because I’m being nice, but rather because she doesn’t deserve the time and energy it would take to get out my Voodoo Doll.

      Oh, and did I mention he’s a total DICK for getting caught up in all that? If she had genuinely been ANY of the things she portrays herself as, at least I could found some way to rationalize it. But he chose a lying, phony, conniving, backstabbing fraud over the love and support of a good woman.

      • Well written FoolMeTwice, especially that last, ” he chose a lying, phony, conniving, backstabbing fraud over the love and support of a good woman.” Remember if yours is like mine (he married her) he now has to LIVE with that.

  • My stbx came from a family of super uptight religious folk. His dad was a minister and a huge adulterer. If these folks were my only representation of what and who Christians are, I would be extremely jaded. For those who have no understanding of who Christ is it looks very bad. Churches in a lot of instances have become the new place to hook up for those people that are too old for the club. Same behavior but different venue.

    How bad is it, I know of several instances where the women purposely sit in the front row without underpants, flashing the men in the pulpit. It’s so embarrassing to hear the pastor or the elders have to address something as basic as proper church attire. Also the church elders, deacons, pastors, you name it, have to surround themselves from being approached alone by desperate women.

    There are church leaders who also take advantage of their flock as well and manipulate those that are new, weak, etc in the faith. All this being said it’s extremely disheartening when any of our leaders cheat regardless of their profession. Manipulators, cheaters will use whatever they can at their disposal -teachers, lawyers, doctors, presidents, and even pastors. Evil comes in all shapes and professions, so for me being a so called religious leader is no different. In the end I’m still responsible for my relationship with Christ.

    • ah yes. According to the depositions in her divorce, Dr.Hoe (the STRONG Christian) used the “I-see-London-I see-France, I don’t wear no underpants” approach to seduce the Pastor of her church. What’s really gross is, it worked. She wrecked their marriage–or rather he did, with her connivance, and one of the saddest thing I ever read was his (ex?) wife’s statement. At the end she wrote: I just ask the court to keep this woman away from me at all costs because she is so threatening and damaging (I’m paraphrasing.)

      ick.

      • That was another mindfuck for me. This so-called religious person would not leave my family alone! She would show up where she knew we would be,even coming to school sporting events where she knew no one. My speaking schedule is semi-public, but requires pre-registration. Often, she would sign up at the last minute and I would get a call late the night before to let me know. Don’t worry, she never got in, but it was creepy.

        When people would call her on it, she would act confused and always had an excuse. It was this as if she wanted my life, my husband, my kids, my work. And yet, I was the one going to hell because of the causes I support! Truth is stranger than fiction.

        • Wow … she tried to show up at your speaking engagements? I know most AP’s want our lives, lock, stock and two smoking barrels but that’s bizarre. Glad to hear others were watching out for you.

        • I hate the gall of the OW showing up at family events, etc. Same thing happened to me. I remember looking at her like what the hell are you doing here? It just amazes how shameless and entitled they are.

      • Louise, I went through something similarly creepy. When people keep accidentally-on purpose showing up like that, it is very unnerving, to say the least. Just one more sick, desperate, destructive power ploy in the whole campaign to appropriate somebody else’s life and identity. Curious to know if it’s let up at all since your split? Does this woman still make an effort to get all up in your face?

        • She still stalks me from the shadows. A few months ago, I was teaching a seminar , mostly introducing other people and I popped out of the room during a presentation. There she was, “casually” looking at the list of registrants and she actually acted suprised to see me! I got my ‘you better get out of my fucking way’ look and she scurried off. She is just plain creepy, to the point my boys get on me about not being more pro-active. But I just don’t want to give her that power over me.

          I think part of the reason she lingers is that she really had spun a fantasy world of what her life would be once my ex was liberated from his bondage. Unfortunately, things have not turned out the way she planned. I truly have thrived in my new life and am so grateful for each day. No more shit sandwiches for this chump emeritus. The two of them? Karma’s a big bitch…a big, mean bitch.

          • “Chump emeritus”…I like this! And good for you for thriving and moving on to a better life…

          • She could be hoping to trigger you to act out emotionally, so that you can look like the crazy one and she’s all that…

            • There’s that. She tries to act like a timid church mouse and I’m the evil leftist feminist advocating causes which are going to send me straight to hell. But I also think she is truly jealous of my life and the love I have in it.It was as if she thought stealing my husband was going to make her me! Hilarious. The reality is she is just pathetic and now unemployable in her field, in large part because she acted so crazy when the shit hit the fan and I kept my cool (at least publicly-lots of “crying in the shower”). I was damned if I was going to act the fool in public. She, on the other hand loved all the attention, not realizing that the same people who were enjoying the show would remember her antics, much to her detriment. I think she still does not understand how she ended up where she now finds herself. As we know, narcissists don’t do self-reflection well.

              • “The reality is she is just pathetic and now unemployable in her field, in large part because she acted so crazy when the shit hit the fan and I kept my cool (at least publicly-lots of “crying in the shower”). ”

                Good for you. By not engaging, you let her feel the full force of the consequences of her own actions. The only drawback of course, is it gives her more time to be a creeper. I hope you’re documenting, so that if things go South, you would have some leg to stand on for a restraining order against her.

                BTW, I’m really sorry if you’re getting the message that Christians have to follow a right-wing Republican agenda. There are Christians who agree more with left wing politics and feel it to be Biblical–things like feeding the poor, healing the sick, that sort of thing.

          • Louise, since I’m new here, I don’t know the whole story, or if your X and OW are still together. But from what you’ve said in this thread, it sounds like you may have been the focus for her all along, not your XH. That’s creepy in a Fatal Attraction sort of way, but it would certainly explain why she continues to show up. It’s just like you said: “It was as if she thought stealing my husband was going to make her me!”

  • If people want to begin to understand the profound dishonesty that is the heart of all cheating, they ought to do a split screen with that picture above of Representative Douchebag and his loving family on one side, and that grainy cheater-cam video of he Rep. Douchebag sucking face with his office skank (also married, btw, to a man who also contributed to Rep. Douchebag’s campaign) on the other. That contrast is the lie that motehrf*cker lived and was happy with–and forced his wife and kids to live (unknowningly) as well.

    I can’t imagine how anyone can think that POS could ever reconcile those two halves of his life to each other, much less that he can reconcile his fractured and duplicitous character to his wife and family. Dude makes Humpty Dumpty look like he has his sh*t together.

    Where are the lightning bolts, indeed. Hell, even an electric cattle prod would suffice in the right location.

    • “Dude makes Humpty Dumpty look like he has his sh*t together.”

      hahahahah

      And yes, calling all lightening bolts (or cattle prods)!

    • “Where are the lightning bolts, indeed. Hell, even an electric cattle prod would suffice in the right location.”

      Makes me long for the scarlet letter days. Plaster the offense where everybody can see it…

    • OK, chumps, let’s get this straight: if we want lightning bolts, it’s Thor we’re supposed to pray to, ok?

      Oh, but he had a mistress too…..

      I guess cattle prods it is–or else we all need to go back to shag carpeting and trail our feet in it with wool socks…

  • This makes me sick. My dad is a totally narcissist and he uses my mother’s strong religious faith against her. This is the most cruel narcissistic move you can do. Make your spouse go against their own strong beliefs. If you make a promise to God (a vow) that you will stay, what does that say about YOU if you leave? Sort of traps the wife in the sense that if she leaves him, she is failing in her beliefs. It’s a head fuck.

    My personal favorite narcissistic politician clergy story is former governer of NJ Jim McGreevey. Cheated on his wife with a man, was found out, and then became a priest.

    • Nancy, my XH told me that I couldn’t divorce him because it went against my beliefs. Literally said it out loud. I used to have a strong faith, but after experiencing so many evil “Jesus People” I’m struggling.

      • I think, Elizabeth, that they just cloak themselves in “Jesus talk”. If they really walked the walk, they wouldn’t be cheaters. I’m not really of the Christian persuasion, but I very much respect people who are and truly live their faith. Jesus cheaters? not so much.

      • Seriously? That asshole tried to keep you an emotional hostage to what his own interpretation of your beliefs are? I’m glad you didn’t let that happen.

        I know how it sucks to see church assholes, especially ones with “power”. Isn’t it sad when someone is that fucking useless that having some ego kibbles from being a deacon, or being highly regarded by other people in a church, is so important? I mean, in the grand scheme of things, the big fish in the small pond doesn’t even amount to a puddle–but hey, I’m that important so you have to follow my line. It’s like those obnoxious bullies back in school who thought being a hall monitor with a badge equalled all the power in the universe…

        Elizabeth Lee, I hope I don’t sound trite when I say this (because I hate trite). But if you base your faith on people, you will be disappointed–guaranteed. The only point to other people in a faith community is love and support–and you need to be wise as a fox to choose well who gets to have that important place in your life.

        Faith in God, well, that too will be disappointed, depending on what your expectations for what that should look like. But maybe that’s a good thing, because perhaps it’s not so much having faith in Him that needs to change, perhaps it’s what you thought what it looks like needs to change?

      • I used to have a strong faith, but after experiencing so many evil “Jesus People” I’m struggling.

        Whatever your beliefs may be (because we all have some sort of beliefs), if you aren’t struggling, then either you’ve been lucky enough to live in a bubble where that is possible, or you are a little crazy, or you’re not doing it right 🙂

  • In a lot of ways, my STBX is more overtly religious than I am. He is very into Buddhism, and has studied with some of the teachers here in our area. He is also a Mason, and Masons have to profess belief in a deity in order to be a Mason. Masonry is supposed to help good men become better. A lot of the “degree work” involves moral lessons.

    STBX got involved with Masonry at about the same time he started fucking OW. This leads me into some thoughts on the Jesus Cheater and its non-Christian equivalents.

    As I mentioned, STBX is more overtly religious than I am, yet I am more interested in church than he is. I stopped going some years ago, as he worked so much I wanted to have some time with him, and Sunday mornings gave me that time! Anyway, he’s the one who’ll bring out the Bible. When we do go to church, he has to genuflect and cross himself (my church is very easy going on whether or not you genuflect, cross yourself, etc.). These are big, dramatic gestures.

    From my perspective, it looks as if he needs to shout to the world that he is a Good Person. Look at me! See how I worship! See how I have a Bible! At the same time, underneath it all, he knows he’s not a good person, so he has to go to the Masonic meetings, meet with his Buddhist teacher–all activities that are somehow going to cleanse his soul and give him the aura of righteousness for which he longs.

    Oh yeah, and OW? She’s a Bible-thumper.

    • One of the most infamous serial killers in US history, Gary Leon Ridgeway (The Greenriver killer–killed between 48 and 80 women) , was married several times and frequenting prostitutes while married, and spent a lot of time at work trying to convert his coworkers to fundamentalist Christianity.

      The reason nobody knows if he killed the 80 women he now claims (48 have been proven) is that he now brags that he killed “more than Bundy, and that makes me the best at something”, so they’re not sure if it’s just all about putting on a show now that he’s in prison, and that’s something he is prone to doing.

      • Ted Bundy professed to be saved prior to his executuon and the fellow that “saved” him was so proud of this. I would have been ashamed to have offered this monster entrance into heaven, but then, I’m not one who puts much stock in this whole forgiveness thing because it seems to me as a way for bad people to avoid the consequences of their behavior.

        • “I’m not one who puts much stock in this whole forgiveness thing because it seems to me as a way for bad people to avoid the consequences of their behavior.”

          Rest assured people don’t get away with anything. I’ve forgiven my stbx but he is still suffering the consequences of his behavior. Relationships, finances, friends and even his health have been affected.

          • My ex has also suffered greatly, but I just don’t see it as my role to forgive him. Let him pray to whatever God will listen, my forgiveness days are over, perhaps because he sought my forgiveness one too many times in the past.

            • “because he sought my forgiveness one too many times in the past” sounds like he was really seeking permission to stay with you for more cake-eating.

              • He loved cake! Because of the length of my marriage, and the fact that I truly loved the guy, I tried everything to keep our marriage together. No more lovingly made homemade cake for him, though. Think his cake is now of the cheap store bought variety, if you know what I mean.

    • KB…
      Yes sometimes a sparkly turd will slip through the investigation process and become a mason but they can not sustain the lies very long. Their actions will catch up to them.
      A belief in the “One True and Living God” is a requirement. I don’t know much about Buddaist Men but if they have multiple God’s they can’t be a Mason.
      A Mason will also be expelled if he fails to support his Wife, children or elderly parents.
      If he has sex with another members Wife, Widow, Mother, Sister or daughter he’s expelled.
      To commit adultery is not supporting your wife or living by any acceptable moral code and can result in expulsion.
      I hope his Lodge kicks him out and fast.
      Most sparkly turds won’t get past the first degree… The effort required for the vast amount of memory work weeds them out and fast !

      • Buddhists don’t have gods. The mythos (as opposed to the morality) part of Buddhism is reincarnation, Karma, and eventually Nirvana for the spiritually enlightened.

      • STBX is interested in Buddhism, but he’s Christian, so he’s okay there.

        I am not confident that his lodge would expel him. Personally, I wished he’d become involved sooner in his life. I have had family members in Masonry, and I think it’s a very positive force. STBX needed better male role models in his life.

        The biggest revenge for me is letting him live life with OW, who will bleed him dry. I think that’s sufficient. Also, it’s guaranteed she will cheat on him. Again, sufficient karma.

        Oddly enough, I rather hope that the lodge doesn’t penalize him. My guess, though, is that he’ll keep the reason for the divorce under wraps, and I don’t have the desire to bring the reason to their attention, though I don’t think I’d be shy to give it if the circumstances are appropriate.

  • People whose jobs are “in the fishbowl” often are so used to compartmentalizing because they have to do the “spin” for the socially acceptable facade, that it’s far too easy for them to switch gears like that. They justify it with “hey, I’m entitled to the ‘real me’ time”, and then use whatever vocabulary or images around them to make it all sparkly.

    I don’t find it surprising anymore. I just get pissed off when their dumbfuck supporters not only continue to blindly worship them, but also decide to mindlessly repeat the “party line” and insist on that line being toed to the detriment of chumps.

    It pisses me off even more when chumps think they’re supposed to toe the party line…

  • My XH is a Jesus cheater.

    He converted to my religion, Catholicism, eight years after we were married and promptly threw himself into church service by being a reader, Eucharistic minister, RCIA sponsor, etc. I was very proud of him and enjoyed that time in our life.

    Fast forward 15 years and he has zero interest in going to mass. He’ll watch the kids while I go alone (like I did in the early years of our marriage), but he won’t go anymore because he doesn’t like the priest, the church, the way they do the Sign of Peace, etc. Meanwhile, he still carries his rosary pouch every day and joins the Knights of Columbus at the urging of one of his colleagues.

    D-day and the accompanying detective work reveals:

    1. He sits in bed and texts OW while I’m at mass
    2. He’s been accompanying OW to her Seventh Day Adventist church every Saturday for nearly a year (when he was supposed to be “working”)
    3. He carries Viagra in his rosary pouch

    He continued the Knights of Columbus charade with his colleague for 6 months after he filed for divorce, all while he became a Seventh Day Adventist and was ordained as one of their ministers. All to impress OW.

    OW’s now history, but he’s still completely devoted to her church and spends countless hours volunteering for them. He’s also given up coffee, alcohol, meat, etc., as prescribed by their teachings.

    Clearly, being the center of attention there is his primary source of kibbles these days, otherwise he’d quit. Either that, or he’s putting himself through some sort of penance.

    Meanwhile, he’s become a bit of a punch line to his family and colleagues. He failed in his biblical duty as husband and father; proselytizing his whore’s religion doesn’t absolve him of his sins – it makes him look like an idiot.

    Why don’t they get that?

    • OH, I know guys like that (well, sort of).

      In most faith communities, there are more single women than men. So, certain guys like the “rooster in the henhouse” mentality. Therefore, they “convert” and make sure to be REAL good at looking and sounding like the real thing. The better they are at it, the easier to get into women’s pants. You should hear some of the bullshit they dish out.

      • I totally believe it. He and OW broke up 6 months ago; he has to be getting something out of it to keep going back. I don’t even want to know…

    • Red…..They never ‘get’ how ridiculous they look. My X and his schmoopie would drive around campus on his EZ-Go while he was married to me. They were carrying on and canoodling in public. I read emails that his employee’s….his employee’s for gawd’s sake!!…wrote him telling him to knock it off because it LOOKED BAD. But they were soooooo in love they just couldn’t help themselves.
      The joke might be on her. Fast forward seven years and I hear she’s real fed up with his alcoholism. Guess it’s gotten a lot worse. Isn’t that a shame?

  • I was fortunate to have found my way to a great, supportive church before my marraige blew up, and it was truly a haven of comfort and refuge for my children and me. I get tears in my eyes remembering the wonderful love and grace shown to us; the food boxes when I couldn’t afford groceries; the protective hugs of their male Sunday School teachers when I was afraid to leave them alone for even 45 minutes – so I got to see the “good side” of the coin.

    In my fear and desparation, in those first few months when I couldn’t sleep, I read the Bible for the first time – cover to cover – and discovered that although “God hates divorce” – he hates the pain it inflicts on the innocent – God does NOT require that a chump stay with a cheater – He actually frees them from the marriage. He has an opinion on those who don’t support their kids that is pretty awesome too. Such a comfort to me that being angry was OK – God was and is angry at cheaters too!

    And these Jesus Cheaters who use their faith and their spouses for their own gain? I can only say that God cannot be happy with the negative PR they spin, using His name for their own selfishness. Wouldn’t want to be in their shoes…just sayin….

    • Redefining – what you describe is how REAL Christians act. They feed you when you’re hungry, comfort you when you’re sad, and watch your kids when you need a break – and they don’t ask for anything in return. They’re just good, good people.

      Thank goodness you had all that support in your time of need – I know it made all the difference.

      And yes, these “Jesus cheaters” are going to have some ‘splaining to do in the hereafter. You do NOT want to be them…

  • “3. He carries Viagra in his rosary pouch”

    This single comment pretty much sums up how incredibly selfish, deceptive, and disgusting these cheaters are.

  • My mom, who is not really religious, has a saying that goes “God waits long and pays well”
    Mind you, she was cheated on & abandoned by her 1st husband when she was 6 months pregnant and with a 4 yr old. His OW schmoopsie was his secretary and she was 4 months pregnant. My mom was devastated however; she ended up meeting & marrying my dad who really was an amazing man until his his passing.

    Oh, and for my mom’s XH & his OW schmoopsie-He was cheating on her with multiple women, she died of brain cancer, he got testicular/prostate cancer and the surgery made him impotent……..so no more screwing around for that serial cheating Narc! Even better, the following year medical advances were made where you could have that same surgery done without causing impotency. Ha!

    My mom was right-
    God waits long & pays well……..

    Wonder what will be in store for my STBXH?

  • Anyone who uses the guise of religion to do these things is an utter piece of trash/shite. It is bad enough to go through the excruiating pain & humiliation of being cheated on but then to have to live it out in the public spotlight with 5 kids. Ugh. Like that loser couldn’t figure out that was not the life he wanted before having 5 kids? And now the wife & kids will be bombarded with images of him kissing that staffer for months (which will be like having the scab ripped off on a daily basis). I really hate these narc SOB’s.

    God, get that lightning bolt ready!!!!
    Oh, and can my STBXH be next in line behind him?

    • Yeah, the kids. They truly are the ones who suffer. We had the misfortune to be in the Jesus cheater/high profile scenario. Newspaper, T.V., internet (the absolute most hateful forum) and random anonymous pot shots. And who bore the brunt of it? My kids, who had done absolutely nothing to deserve it. And the whole world got to see their pain.

      To this day, it has affected my children, especially my daughers. All of them put their dad on a pedestal, probably because I did. Seeing that he could so easily and deceitfully maintain an affair has made them distrust men and relationships. My sons change girlfriends like they do clothes. None of them seem able or willing to seek a long term relationship. But I’m sure they were the last thing on my partners mind when he cheated.

    • “now the wife & kids will be bombarded with images of him kissing that staffer for months ”

      Yeah, what is the point of the media rehashing shit like that? The people who think he’s an ass for it know what they think after seeing it once, and the people who will buy his bullshit spackle will buy it without having to see the picture more than once. So why bother putting the family through so much more pain that they didn’t even ask for in the first place?

  • Written in the Book of Life, recorded in the Akashic Record, and now indelibly preserved by closed circuit camera in all it’s ghastly glory. Can’t undo it and now it can’t be unseen. Your kids are going to see it, buddy. And all their friends…….

    Well, I’ll forgo my usual comment about what circle of Hell these guys belong in and just say how wonderful the new technology is for tempting/entrapping these guys as well as laying all their sins bare. Probably also, it’s a big splash of cold water on this relationship. How wonderful for his daughters that they aren’t going to be mindfucked by their father sometime in the future after the affair has progressed by saying “You need to see your father in a ‘healthy’ relationship.” As if that’s the key to Biblically raising a daughter.

    I hope his wife finds some stiffness in her spine and makes short work of this guy.

  • This post really hit a nerve with me. My Ex is Mr. Super Christian – sending bible verses to our two teen boys (who he chose to leave behind when he moved into his little bachelor pad) and calling them every few days and reading scripture to them on the phone (since he only actually sees them about 1x a week even though he lives 4 miles away). He ends all his emails to me with scripture verses (in the signature line) even though I have asked him numerous times to please stop as it is hurtful to me (yes…I know that was a mistake…never expose a weakness or it will be used against you). It just crawls all over me how he can continue this charade. A true Christian would feel consumed with guilt, would be working on repentance, and would be trying to make amends. Hypocrisy is his middle name…. I think his ongoing hypocritical behavior disgusts me even more than his lying, devious behavior prior to abandoning his family!

    • Trust me Nicole, this is going to drive your boys nuts. It’s being done of course, to try to prove to them what a good guy he is in spite of what he’s done, but it doesn’t work that way. The hypocrisy is too much of an obstacle.

      Now that my son is out of high school, the ex is trying to come back into his life using Jesus as an angle. He has gone so far as to set up an intervention with members of his men’s group (son was invited and not told what it was about). Result? My son, who doesn’t smoke, chew, drink, fornicate, do drugs or get in trouble with the law now wants to move to the middle of nowhere in Montana or Colorado where they don’t get cell service so he can get away from his nuisance of a dad.

      • Wow! I wonder what lies about your son he told his men’s group so that they would agree to do something that stupid!

        • I think the angle was my son was raised through his teenage years by a woman and now needs help entering the world of men as an adult. So they ganged up on him with stories about their failures and how Jesus saved them. Not being a “fallen piece of shit” like they were, he couldn’t relate.

          My son actually has a wonderful father figure in his life, but that’s his private business. I’ve never rubbed the ex’s nose in that fact though believe me, it’s been tempting.

          • Idiots. They have no idea that words are meaningless–their collective actions and relationship with your son would give him a better idea of who God really is instead of kidnapping him to listen to their after-school special stories.

      • Chumpalicious….I moved here from Montana…..they don’t get cell service in Paradise, Montana. It’s so cool there! Have your son google it. Close enough to Missoula and Coeur d’ Alene, Idaho. Lots of places around here with no cell service and not all that far from civilization.

        • Another place of surprisingly poor cell service is west central Illinois, just north of St. Louis. I have driven from St. Louis along the Illinois River road (100? 108? Cannot recall) and the tiny villages along the bluff also have limited service; Kamspville, Pearl, like that).
          Beautiful area, and close to “civilization,” but limited in mobile services. 🙂

    • You know, I wonder if he’s quoting scripture because he honestly has nothing else to say–because maybe things like the truth about how wrong he is or what a narc he is would accidentally sneak out of his mouth instead.

    • Nicole,

      If I had to deal with that hypocrisy, I think I’d fight fire with fire and make my new email tagline read very simply: “Malachi 2:13-15”

      Actual Biblical text?

      [“Here is another thing you do. You cover the LORD’s altar with tears, weeping and groaning because he pays no attention to your offerings and doesn’t accept them with pleasure.

      You ask, “Why?” It is because the LORD is the witness between you and the wife of your youth. You have been unfaithful to her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant.

      Has not the one God made you? You belong to him in body and spirit. And what does the one God seek? Godly offspring. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful to the wife of your youth.
      “]

  • My ExH went through several different religions during the 9 years we were together. (Dating 8, married 1, fake rec & divorce 1) He brought me to his Catholic church once to prove something to the priest the first year of dating. No idea what and don’t care to ever know. Then turned Agnostic, then Atheist, then “left hand path” (devil worship because apparently it was popular) shm. He turned into the LHP when he started up with OW.

    I happen to be “of the pagan bent” myself. He LOVED to tell people that if they didn’t respect him, I’d cast a spell on them. *face/desk*

    Yeah, that’s what my beliefs are all about. For threatening people that disrespect him. So glad I could be of use.

    Have no idea what religions he cycled through when married to OW. I do know that he is now a “godly man” and and belongs to one of those mega churches in Vegas, of all places. Apparently wifey #3 “brought him back to Christianity”. Which, if true, good for him. But we all know what a disordered wing nut he is and that it’s just a facade until the next, more useful thing shows up. (Read my post “Narc Ex rants because somebody has to read this” in the forum)

  • Oh oh! I want to play!

    After his last (?) affair with the bat shit crazy OW was revealed, she went into overdrive speaking “truth” to everyone, about everything that had gone on.

    One of my favorites that she so graciously shared with me:

    He has a Masters degree in religion/theology and when we first married, planned on a career in the ministry (Southern Baptist). Oh, he got hired as an associate, but was never ordained because he insisted they needed to invite him to be ordained, but at this particular small congregation, they insisted that someone must come to the diaconate and announce that they had been “called” and wanted to be ordained. He was not going to do it their way, so he was never ordained. Anyway, after many lean years, he went on to secular employment, but has always been deeply involved in the church, and taught a Sunday School class all these years.

    So the story. He likes to go to the early service. Apparently he would slip out to his car between the service and Sunday School and call Bat Shit Crazy, engage in dirty talk, beat off, and text her penis pics. Then pick up his Bible and head to class and pontificate to the little people. Well, one Sunday she apparently bemoaned the fact that she couldn’t be there to hear him in person, so he left his phone on in his front pocket. She sent him a long email waxing poetic about how brilliant he was, and how much she enjoyed hearing him talk. He admitted that it happened, but it “was an accident, he accidentally hit the dial button and left his phone in his front shirt pocket”.

    After he was busted she wrote the minister of the church, detailing Mr. Cheaterpants many sins, including the shared pocket call, but there were no ramifications, other than a brief moment of embarrassment for the cheater. He was never asked to stop teaching, and the lovely older women all gush over him and wax poetic about what a wonderful person his is. And of course he agrees!

  • This guy is an asshole. The mistress is an asshole. They’re both assholes. I do, however, take umbrage with her removal from payroll and his refusal to resign. Wha?

    Btw, as for female politicians, rumor had it the politician the OW in my situation once worked for cheated. It was then I knew trying to embarrass her by sending black roses to the office probably would have little effect on anybody there.

    • Black roses….hmmmm…

      My first thought when I read CL talking about right wing females in the media was ,”what , their husbands would let them out of the house from homeschooling the kids?” But that was just be catty cynicism speaking…

      Really, being an asshole cheater is an equal-opportunity employer. There are no age, gender, orientation, race/ethnicity, religious or socio-economic lines that prohibit that behaviour. It’s the most egalitarian club out there–only chumps are excluded…

      • Yes, because they are ugly and her participation in the affair “sucked the life out” of my marriage, although I fully blame my ex-husband for letting her suck anything.

        I agree with egalitarianism. I would argue we don’t see the female-folk in politics do it as much because the number of elected women is disproportionate to men.

  • Lately I’ve been finding it harder to believe as I once did. I see my ex walking around this earth breathing and healthy, while good people like Chump Son are cut down in their prime. I see so many bad people who are living a great life, while so many good people struggle just to make it through each day.

    My ex is another one who uses Jesus as a prop. He loves to spout about what a good Christian he is, how he loves God and Jesus, how blessed he is, how he is here on a mission from God, how wonderful every sparkly aspect of his life is thanks to God. He has a lot of people fooled, fans who think he’s just Mr Wonderful. It makes me sick.

  • Well I believe everyone knows my story – the OW IS a minister. She’s also the youth director and apparently gives pre-marital counseling. There is a current picture of her on the church website where she is strutting down the aisle, singing and praising God.

    Hypocrite much? And the Cheater Turd spent our entire relationship ridiculing and criticizing people who had and practiced Christian beliefs. He now posts religious sayings on his FB page. I guess when there’s really no there there, you can readily adopt any persona that fits your current starring role.

    Luckily for me, I have a friend who is also a minister, who is a Christian woman of faith and regularly reflects the values in her daily life that they say Christians are to exhibit. I don’t blame Christianity or any belief for the cherry-picking behaviors of the character disordered who choose to latch on to a title as a means of self-aggrandizement or as a cover behind which to hide.

    • “I guess when there’s really no there there, you can readily adopt any persona that fits your current starring role.”
      Bingo Baby!!!
      Got the T-shirt.

  • Fucking shit heads. OW is a ” child of Christ”. It sooooo annoys me that these hypocrites hide under the banner of GOD.

    Seriously. WTF! Yea this pisses me off because she can spew her Christian principals while being married to some other guy and fucking another married man at the same time. What does the 7th Commandment say again?

    The most ironic shit she did was send Christian scripture and then in the next msg, a PORN link because ” it made her come”.

    Barf.

  • UPDATE: Heath Peacock, the husband of the woman seen playing smoochie-face with Rep. Vance McAllister (the Godly cheater pictured with his family at the top of this post), has issued a statement that Rep. Can’t-Keep-It-In-His-Pants “has wrecked my life” and that he will be divorcing his wife.

    [INSERT LOUD CHEERING HERE]

    The things Mr. Peacock said to CNN will sound familiar to folks here at Chumplady.com: “I’m just freaking devastated by the whole deal, man. I loved my wife so much. I cannot believe this. I cannot freaking believe it. I feel like I’m going to wake up here in a minute and this is all going to be a bad nightmare.” He

    Heath and Melissa Peacock have been married for six years and have a 6-year-old son.

    McAllister, who is married with five children, issued a statement on Monday saying, “There’s no doubt I’ve fallen short and I’m asking for forgiveness. I’m asking for forgiveness from God, my wife, my kids, my staff, and my constituents who elected me to serve.”

    Heath Peacock noted that “he’s apologized to everyone in the world except me.”

    Typical.

    As*hole.

    • Too bad we couldn’t get a hold of Heath Peacock and invite him to join us here at Chump Nation. It has been a God send to me. It wasn’t around when my X and Skank Woman blew up my life. I think things would have been different if it had.

    • Thank friggin’ God Heath’s neither adding more spackle to the bullshit, nor does he sound like he’s going to accept bullshit stories. That’s a good (new) start for him.

      *snort* Vance probably doesn’t want to get any cattle-prod distance of Mr. Peacock….

    • Oh, don’t we all know that feeling, that we “can’t freaking believe it,” that it’s a nightmare and if we could just wake up? And of course the heaving into the toilet….

  • Duplicity is what it is all about. X and his live-in bimbo attend Catholic Mass every Sunday. Bimbo has written me letters about her “Christian values.” They bring our son with them on the weekends they have him, in the brand new “big boy” clothes they bought for him especially for Mass. Then he changes back into the hand-me-downs he has to come home because X is unemployed and can’t afford to pay full child support.

    Did I mention the new family is going to Disney World in two weeks? Perfect place to perpetuate their fantasy.

    Forgiveness? I don’t see it happening.

  • Ick. So the ow in my situation I went there once to talk to the h, she had a very large 2 foot high cross on the wall, a golden one. Which it just bothers me.

    A church across the street that had little slogans each week.

    My h said “he was looking for a new church” and the only one I can think of that would think adultery is ok is maybe satan worshipers? I have no idea I didn’t do this.

    Now the thing I have had pelted at me is the part in the bible about how god and jesus can’t even tell them what to do, there is that free will clause.

    And that free will clause is used by the infidel whore louses of the world.

    So let me see, h followed his heart and has free will and so it is ok if h tramples all over me, my values, what I thought of the marriage, our kids, anyone, anyone at all, h refuses to talk about it.

    He has free will.

    I shouldn’t say anything even god said he has free will.

    A lot of free will swinging all over the place, it is like the towers of stupidity.

    Another thing that still bothers me is I was told, my kids were told, anyone was told “you all have too much drama” My life was pretty ordinary I thought before this, if there is any “drama” now it is all from this. There is so much drama from this the h and whoreheyow should set up a stage show and take it on the road.

    • God-talk or not, reality is…yup, we do all have free will.

      The bad news is, assholes get to use it to hurt others.

      The good news is, you have it too–you used it to divorce his stinkin’ ass, uou have it to tell the truth and not collude with his facade, you have it to limit contact and not discuss your situation with him (that’s what REAL friends are for), and you have it to stop conversations and walk away so you don’t have to listen to his bullshit excuses.

  • And look at that picture, he is just trying to pass for a good old guy, not even wearing a tie. And his wife, oh I like her hair and she is owning it letting it go grey, and oh yes lets just take this solid trusting wife and the kids and lets just

    Take it all to hell in a handbasket

  • Devout friend of mine met her husband via church. They were involved in youth groups, adult groups, everything. Over the course of a5 year marriage, she is aware of 2 APs. She believes he fathered a child with the 2nd (also married and a congregant) when he started showing pictures of another woman’s newborn baby to people in the meet/greet after the service.

    She had to leave her church because she was pressured to maintain the marriage at all costs – her divorcing her husband was a greater sin than his apparently. He was ‘forgiven’ and received all sorts of attention as a prodigal son so to speak.

  • What an unholy piece of shit Mr. Congressman is! It is particularly disgusting when they forgive themselves and hide behind their obviously false religious beliefs. As if he can speak for God. I hope his wife kicks him to the curb.

  • I’m not religious, and I don’t trust people with extrinsic morality. I don’t trust zealots of any stripe. I’m not surprised AT ALL when people who claim to be all pious and spiritual are nothing of the sort, particularly when they constantly seek attention for/through their alleged relationship with whatever religion they profess to adhere to. I am particularly leery of fundamentalists of any sort.

    Just, ick.

  • Another case of the stupids. Have you noticed that some/most/all cheaters are just plain dumb asses? This guy spent hundreds of thousands of his money on his campaign and may well be booted out. There are 6 children crying and two chumps heaving in the toilet bowl tonight. I hate this shit.

    Here’s the kicker on this pig:

    “U.S. Rep. Vance McAllister said Tuesday that “Duck Dynasty” star Willie Robertson will be his special guest at Tuesday night’s (January 28) State of the Union address.
    Willie is the son of family patriarch Phil Robertson, who got suspended briefly from the A&E Duck Dynasty reality show after making disparaging remarks about gays and blacks in a GQ magazine interview.” Sigh. God bless Louisiana.

    Enuff said. Goodnight, Chumpskateers.

    • It’s the stupids, alright. ‘I want what I want and I want it NOW’. No thinking about possible consequences, that would imply they had some responsibility for their actions! Can’t have that.

      Toddlers in grown-up bodies.

  • Yup Satsuma…two chumps heaving in the toilet bowl tonight. You got that one right. Sucker punched and kicked in the guts out of nowhere. We all know what that feels like. God love them. I hope they find Chump Nation.
    It was the worst WORST!! feeling in the world when I caught the husband I adored slinking off to a motel room with Skank Woman. Six months after he insisted we renew our wedding vows on our anniversary. Gawd almighty, the mindfuckery of it all.
    No wonder I’m still single after seven years looking through tainted lenses. Inhumane.
    I am absolutely convinced these people aren’t really people.

  • Good for Heath Peacock (the Chumped husband in the Vance McCallister affair) for leaving his wife’s ass.

    Heath insists it was “just a kiss,” and good for him to immediately shutting that shit down.

    And look what that kiss cost that female staffer!

    1) She lost her job.
    2) Now she lost her marriage.

    Was it worth it?!

    We can all learn from Heath on how to put our foot down when the shit hits the fan. Especially in politics. Was there anything more humiliating than watching Larry Craig’s wife “standing by her man” at that press conference after he was caught trying to solicit gay sex in a men’s bathroom? I’m a hardcore liberal slightly to the left of LBJ and even MY heart broke for poor Republican Mrs. Craig! How about poor Mrs. Anthony Weiner? Or even Mrs. Bill Clinton?!

    Being publicly chumped is humiliating. But being a willing chump in front of news cameras?! UGH! I can feel ulcers developing in my stomach just THINKING about such a mind-fuck.

  • Is this a lightning bolt? – two ex husbands (one a known cheater and the other who fit the cheater profile) had major life threatening accidents within a year of so after I left them. They’re functioning remarkably well considering what happened but I’d guess they have lifelong pain. After the first one a friend asked, “And where were YOU?” I honestly had nothing to do with it!

  • I was married to a born again Christian. I am not one. Throughout our 30 year marriage he would say things to my kids like, “When mommy dies she is going to hell because she hasn’t accepted Jesus as her Lord and savior.” Nice talk for a kid to hear.

    It got on his nerves that I did not go to church with him. I told him from the get go that my relationship with God was exactly that – MY relationship with God and I tried to live it every day.

    During the process of my divorce I remember asking him how he rectified his cheating in light of his religion. He very calmly told me he was using his God-given gift of free will.

    I guess if you’re devout God gives you a bye on the Commandments.

    BTW, prior to being a minister Bob Coy was a stand up comedian in Florida.

    • ” He very calmly told me he was using his God-given gift of free will.” Yup, he did–to sin. What a great way to treat that gift. He could have used it for good instead of evil.

    • Well, Jasper, glad he solved that little problem for us. I guess he thinks that means he’s not responsible?!? God also gave Ted Bundy free will, along with Atilla the Hun, Hitler and Pol Pot…so it’s all good, right?

  • I have a lot of respect for all religions. They certainly add stability and charity to society. I have clergy in the family, and they are exceptional humble people full of humility. Don’t get me wrong, there are clergy that are screwed up out there. Yes, doctors get sick too.

    My FIL was a devout Catholic for my 20+ years of marriage. Alter boy…yada yada yada. Then after we found out about his 10 year affairs, love child, yada yada yada. He the proclaims to be an Atheist now. Obviously the shame is too great to deal with. I have friends who were Atheists all there lives and I respect their religious views as they respect mine. Even atheist don’t go around hurting people.

    There is only ONE time its OK to cheat…N-E-V-E-R!!!!

  • Welcome to the Anglican Church!
    I know this story inside and out, over and over again. I wish people would stop being such sheep.
    If the members of these congregations called shenanigans on them, the Bishops might act on their bad behaviour.

  • It’s not only Jesus cheaters – it’s all cheaters of every faith that use God to mask themselves as good people. I’m a Hindu and so is my ex-cheater. I can’t believe how appropriate this post is for me today. My cheater prayed with me – which I take very seriously. Celebrated religious days in my home. When I was in India was going to temple with me – all the while lying and cheating on me. We started a business together and named it a religious name (which in my family we always do) and was cheating on me and using me and my contacts for the business and even took money for the business while he was in an affair with another woman. It’s truly sick and turns my stomach thinking there are people out there like this in the world. And some how they justify their behavior.
    He hasn’t paid me back the money for the business and it has been over a year and a half. The horrifying thing is he has a FB business page (the business he basically used me and my money to start) and posts things like yesterday about Hindu festivals and about religious icons (The business is in India and Hindu’s tend to be quite religious) and I tries to present himself and this company as a God fearing person…Someone who is religious…I am sickened. These people are so disordered. For several months I have been lashing out on FB – but no more. I understand the futility. These people don’t and won’t ever get what being a decent person means. But this is truly just more demonstration of how nothing is sacred to them and how much more important image is than anything else. Disgusting. Thanks for this site. I’m finally starting to see so much more clearly now. There’s no helping people like this. There’s just getting the hell away from them.

  • If you think some “average” Christian persons are bad about this, or run- of- the- mill denominations are bad, there are Christian groups far more extreme. They are called “patriarchialists.”

    Check for the name “Doug Phillips” to find out more about that. Phillips is a 45+ year old married man who is in all kinds of hot water now for having groomed a teen (who worked for his family as a live-in nanny) for an affair. (She is now in her twenties and there is currently legal action going on over all this.)

    I am not an expert on all things Phillips, but based on my understanding, he was for many years the leader of a pro- family values, home schooling, pro Christian patriarchy type group.

    Like I said, if you google Phillips’ name on regular google or google news, you will find a spate of recent articles about his having been caught out sexually harassing a 20 something lady (and the abuse started when she was only 15).

    Then there are Christian gender complementarians. (Biblical gender complementarianism is sometimes called “biblical womanhood / biblical manhood”). They believe strongly in rigid, narrow, stereotypical, old fashioned gender roles for men and women.

    They believe that a man is the head of the wife in an authoritative sense (even though this directly contradicts the teaching of Jesus Christ, who said his followers shall ‘not lord authority over each other’), and they believe the husband should make all final decisions. They do not believe women should be permitted to be preachers in churches.

    By the way, not all Christians believe in gender complementarianism. Some believe both genders are equal and should be treated as such, and they usually identify as “gender egalitarians” (though not always; some share those views but are not comfortable using that label). You can read more about their beliefs by going to one of their sites, “Christians For Biblical Equality.”

    Gender complementarian Christians often coach Christian women in abusive marriages, when such ladies go to them for help, to stay with the abuser, rather than to divorce, or to call the police.

    Also Google the name “John Piper” (he is a somewhat famous preacher in Christian circles) with the phrase “endure abuse for a season” for more on that.

    Now, to be fair, there are different types of Christian gender complementarians. Not all agree with each other on what a woman’s role should be in or out of marriage, not all of them have extra- marital affairs or are abusive, and so forth. Some are more extreme than others.

    A common thread among these groups, the pats and gender comps, is that they tend to blame females for male sexual faults. If a married man has an affair, or hits on a young woman, they will argue that she is totally, or half responsible, for the male’s behavior in some way.

    The men almost never take full responsibility for their sexual sins and other males (and some of the women) will make excuses for the man by blaming the woman (even if the woman was not to blame in any way).

    There was a story in the news a few years ago about a Baptist deacon or elder (Ernest Willis) who repeatedly raped a teen girl twice (named Tina Anderson), she got pregnant as a result, and the preacher (Chuck Phelps) made the girl apologize to the congregation for fornication. She had to stand before everyone at a church service and apologize.

    Pats and comps also put a huge burden on women -both married and single- to “dress modestly” to “keep a man from stumbling,” rather than teaching males to be responsible for their own actions and thought lives.

    On my blog, I have some examples of other Christian persons who trumpet the “family values” rhetoric who have been caught having affairs, including “Focus on the Family” members.

    Television show and Christian personality Pat Robertson has said some very terrible things about women who have been cheated on, as has Seattle area pastor Mark Driscoll.

    Both men, Robertson and Driscoll, blame women for their husbands cheating on them… they basically say if a man cheats on his wife, it’s because she has “let herself go” (eg, she has gained weight, etc).

    Robertson basically said in one episode a few months ago to a married woman who wrote to him for advice who said her husband cheated on her that (paraphrasing his remarks), “oh well, that’s just how men are, they get turned on, they are tempted day in and day out over risque ads they see every where, you can’t really blame them, you must get over it, and think of all the nice things he’s done for you in the past.”

    There are some Christians out there who fight such views and find them repulsive, so it’s not all of them that believe that way or endorse such views.

    A lot of “blame the victim” thinking does go on among churches that believe in patriarchy or gender complementarianism, whether we are talking about married women who get cheated on, or single women who get raped.

    And yes, a lot of these types of Christians seem to view divorce as ten times worse as male infidelity.

    As someone else was saying above, a lot of Christians also hold double standards in this area; I’ve seen this on blogs for Christian domestic abuse victims, where the women say after they divorced their abusive husband for being abusive (and/or having serial affairs), their churches supported the abusive husband, but shunned the wife. It makes no sense to me.

    It’s not that I am unsympathetic to some of the traditional values these groups claim to hold, but some of them are blazing hypocrites about it, and they are not protecting and helping the victims, as the Bible says they should.

  • A lot of men with problems are attracted to Christian ministry in order to gain some control over issues regarding their own sexuality.

    Holding a strong moral stance over something is a way to avoid succumbing to it or even acknowledging their susceptibility to temptation.

    This is also reason the Church harbours such a massive amount of homosexual priests and paedophiles.

    This is not a correct motivation for seeking ministry -because the motive is not Christ centred – it lacks emotional maturity and moral health.

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