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And the Cheater Affliction Award Goes to…

Xmas1Yesterday’s post on Dean McDermott’s “remorse” dramatics inspired quite a few stories of cheaters disintegrating into madness when faced with the loss of cake.

Now I realize that some of you were spared the throw pillow gnashing, sleeping bag hopping, shrieking banshees and got the cold fish cheaters. The kind that just look at you wanly and shrug. Gig’s up. WTFever.

Today’s contest is for those of you with the flamboyant crazies. The OW who barfs in your toilet. The cheater who falls on the sofa, tossing pillows in spasm fits of self-pity.  The hypochondriac who feigns a migraine just at the moment you ask a question. (“It’s like an ice pick in my head!”)

In short, the sort of cheater who having dealt you the sucker punch of betrayal wants to immediately make it all about THEIR pain — the mysterious pain of Cheater Affliction.

We shall award the winner of the first annual Dean McDermott Cake Antics Contest the “Golden Sleeping Bag” in honor of BarristerBelle’s crazy who jumped into a swimming pool at having been found out, then wrapped himself into a sleeping bag and bunny hopped away from his baffled family. (A story that lives here in chump infamy).

Mine did operatic, crazy “remorse” — but it was more of the “please don’t throw me out into the cold, cold winter!” variety. Wherever shall he sleep? Whatever shall he do? You would’ve thought he was a wounded little sparrow and not a 250-lb lawyer with a credit card.

His diverting cheater affliction was a stye on his eye. Didn’t matter the question. Didn’t matter the circumstance — we must IMMEDIATELY direct all attention to his agony. Where was he last night? Hey, there is a SWOLLEN BUMP ON MY EYELID! Stop the presses.

I think cheaters engage in dramatic cheater afflictions because they know what chumps we are — we’re empathetic chumps. They’re going to use that empathy against us, because it’s worked so well before. There we were making their needs so central, attending to their boo-boos, picking up the check — why would we stop now? Did we register anger and upset? Then the proper response is just to amplify their NEEDS, make them up if they have to, and quickly return all attention to them where it rightfully belongs.

I also think in crazy land — they really are in distress at the loss of cake, it really does feel horribly unjust. Recognizing the injustice they perpetrated on you with betrayal would require the higher cognitive functioning narcissists are incapable of. So they swallow the throw pillow instead.

So whatcha got, chumps?

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Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • My cheater told me he was going to commit suicide. He was driving around town instead of working and he was calling me telling me how he was going to kill himself. He’s boring, huh? At home he did let out an anguished scream, once. He really is boring.

    • Boring? No, I’d say unhinged. I would take EVERY suicide threat seriously, especially if you consider they’re doing it to manipulate you. You call the authorities and say this person is threat to themselves, and get them in for a forcible psych evaluation.

      If it’s for real — you’ve helped. If it’s not for real — they won’t pull that manipulative shit again or you call the cops.

      • I’m interested in knowing how many chumps went through this. I was IN the vehicle when mine threatened suicide. I was terrified but I did manage to get him to pull over because I thought he would kill me too. I had a brother who did make threats and eventually did it because no one believed he was serious. Threats must be taken seriously. When I told him I’m calling the police he suddenly became sane again.
        Mine also blamed me for sleeping with everyone including my pastor, even if I just managed to answer the phone. Hehehe! We always hug each other as greeting and I was told that I am always whispering in my pastors ears even while his wife is within earshot! Really !!!! They just have a way of reversing all the shit on you.And to top it of tears, tears and more tears. I’m treating him so badly!
        They are mindfucks. If they get the chance they will fuck with your mind till they drive you crazy all the while sobbing boooohoooo poor me.

        • Yeah, I had the suicide threats a couple of times. He’d call from the car crying, saying how he can’t live without me, how I was the best thing he’d ever had. He’d always finish with something like ‘thanks for the life you have given me, tell the kids I love them’. Then he would hang up.
          TBH it really made me angry more than anything, I knew he didn’t have any intention of hurting himself. He just wanted me to tell him to come home, which I refused to do. Instead I phoned his sister and suggested she deal with him.

        • I asked my AWESOME, no-nonsense divorce lawyer if my STBXH was at risk for suicide (I’d gotten a restraining order and brought the hammer down,) and she said, “narcissists never suicide. Never.” I believe her.

        • Mine did. When caught in lies he would make comments like, “I don’t know why it’s worth living anymore…”

          The day I caught him at his AP’s, he beat me home – He was gone when I arrived home. But the floor was littered with shotgun shells (in different rooms) and his shotgun was gone.

          I called cops. I called phone company and when he called, the call was traced to a hotel 60 miles away. “I hate myself”, blah blah. The police picked the trace and troopers showed up at the hotel and took his gun but not him. All an act. He even admitted it was an act later.

          I told him any more suicide threats and I would have him committed for the full 72 hours somewhere. He never did it again.

      • It Does get Boring…After the 100th Time you’ve heard It…

        ” If You Don’t Come Back to the HELL I want to Trap You and My Unborn in, I’M going to Kill Myself”………. YEA, THAT REALLY Makes me Want to RUN Back..Cause you Know, My Baby Deserves a ” Dad” like That.

        I got Sick of that Shit..Eventually Told Him to HAVE AT IT…Save EVERYONE Including HIMSELF from His DANGEROUS, MISERABLE, INSUFFERABLE, INCURABLE, DELIBERATE ASSHOLERY.

        DickHead’s Still Alive..

        It’s a Headtrip…thy don’t MEAN It.
        Regarding Terrible EXes Like MINE….Wouldn’t be Much for Anyone to Mourn the ” Loss” of Them…
        Actually, Some of us would Breathe a Sigh of RELIEF….. NEVER AGAIN would he cause ANYONE Pain…No More FUTURE VICTIMS.

    • Oooh, that’s an automatic 72-hour involuntary commitment to the psych ward where I come from. I’m with CL, if it’s real he needs to be committed, and if it’s a pretense….he needs to be committed!

      • In all seriousness, I knew he was being manipulative and I resented that, but I also knew that I would have to call authorities if he didn’t calm down. I stayed on the phone with him and just talked to him and he got it together and was all right. I knew that I had to take it seriously but I was pretty sure he would not do anything that drastic. He has never threatened that again. It was a manipulation tactic. If he ever did threaten suicide again, though, it would most definitely be a call to authorities.

        • I got the suicide threat too. In the beginning right after his ‘big’ news came out, he would threaten suicide. I would say don’t talk like that, you need to see a counselor, blah, blah, blah. When I finally got my mind back and came out of the fog, I knew he was doing it just to manipulate me. He would always say it when I was the most upset and it would turn the situation around and I would start patting him on the back and comforting him. I finally called his bluff and said go ahead and do it. He never mentioned it again.

          • Same here . . . he “eluded” to suicide. I didn’t worry about it though, since he is far too in love with himself to ever actually do it. He only mentioned it because it’s in the first chapter of the Cheater Handbook under, “Things to do after you’ve been caught.”

            • My cheater threatened to leave this world too, in an epic head spinning rant of “FUCK me, Fuck ME, I am so fucked…” He then told me I “should kill him” or he “would kill himself, it didn’t matter…. ” He was assuming there was still weaponry in the house. I had previously stowed it in an inaccessible place. I told him as attractive as the offer was I wasn’t about to ruin the rest of my life.
              When you figure that most of these cheaters fall under the category of sociopath, it makes sense that they “act” so bizarre. They are just empty shells and they mimic behavior. Odds are they are trying to pull off what they deem to be appropriate behavior for a “person in distress.” My cheater spent loads of time in front of the TV at night watching emotional, romantic scenes or violent, dramatic crime shows or over-the-top slime shows like a Jerry Springer.
              So when he made the offer to die, my bet was that he would enact some struggle scene where poor irrational me was trying to kill myself and he couldn’t get the weapon away in time. No way to feel or live.

    • Mine also threatened suicide when I told him I was going to stay at a friend’s house to clear my head after we had a horrendous fight the day before. He left a note on the bed while I was in the basement looking for a bag to pack some things. I found him sitting in the car in the drive way. I managed to get him back inside the house and within minutes the waterworks dried up and we were ordering take out for dinner. He won! I stayed and didn’t go to my friend’s house because I was scared he would do something. Looking back though… it’s insane how these nut jobs can turn the drama and water works on and off so easily. After dinner, he looks at me with this cold expression on his face and said to me “I hope we can keep this between us.” When he said that I realized he was just trying to manipulate me. People in real pain don’t just switch on and off like that. I didn’t call the cops but I did call his therapist the next morning (going to therapy was his way of hoovering me every time I threatened to end it).
      And that was only the beginning. That night I decided that I had to leave. I packed all of my things and moved out by the following week. Once the Ex-H realized I was really leaving what ensued was even more Cake Antics. He did everything from more crying to throwing fits, first telling me to leave already (at 7:30 in the morning while I was getting ready to go to work) to offering to help me unpack if I stayed, to coming on to me and trying to have sex with me (this is really funny because he always thought himself to be irrisistable to women… puh-lease!). This final fit was when he showed up just as I was about to leave with last bit of my things. He cried and cried saying that he wanted his wife back, that he wasn’t a man he was a little boy, what was he going to do without me…. blah blah blah…. Of course not once did he say he was sorry, not once did he say he wanted to make it up to me and do everything he could fix our marriage…. he should have been presented with an Oscar for his perfomace. Needless to say, I left and never looked back.

      • My Little Slice of Ted Bundy said he felt suicidal, that’s why he had to cheat. He needed a way to snap out of it.

        • My ex threatened suicide and went much further, I almost ended up a statistic. Most of you have heard it before, not funny so I’ll not repeat. New chumps, remember, anyone who threatens to kill themselves because of YOU is abusing you, it is a control play. And if it doesn’t work, the next escalation could be violence directed at you. Be careful.

          • That is great advice. Mine started punching the wall. Then he threatened to “beat me senseless.” He was never violent before.

            • By the way I forgot to mention the police in my country says “a threat” is only that. You have no marks on your body.

        • On DDay 2 the evil X asked me if I was going to kill myself despite the fact that I have never been suicidal. That really freaked me out. Even more so when I discovered shortly thereafter that he had made himself the beneficiary of two different life insurance policies in my name. I am convinced that I LITERALLY dodged a bullet.

    • My STBX threatened suicide a trillion times in our relationship, I would cry, beg for him to get help. He said “you know I’d never do it, right” and I was like “then stop saying it”.

      The day he walks out to be with his new ego kibble supply – he says he’s going to kill himself if I don’t let him walk out, and I try to talk “sense” to him, then he says, “okay, I will not kill myself, if you don’t let me go be with her, I may just kill you” and I said “leave the key and get the effe out”…and then he cried because I wouldn’t let him take the key.

  • Okay my favorite little sociopath (as I like to call my ex), just did the wan shrug and evaporated, so I’ll just vote on my fellow chumps hilarious stories.

    The winner continues to have to be Barrister Belle’s ex hopping around in that idiotic sleeping bag. Although a close second must be the toss-pillow-eating wife (or is that wives? weren’t there two reports of pillow eating yesterday or did I read that thread wrong?). And of course who could leave out the sobbing cheater crawling across the kitchen floor and ending up in a fetal position. So many cheaters in fetal positions, so little time….

    • “Okay my favorite little sociopath (as I like to call my ex), just did the wan shrug and evaporated, so I’ll just vote on my fellow chumps hilarious stories. ”
      LOL! I like “favorite little sociopath. I’m going to call mine my favorite big fat sociopath, as he’s 6’1” and weighs over 325 pounds. I guess when he did his wan shrug and evaporated, I lost 325 pounds of pure asshat!

  • I cannot beat pillow eating or sleepy hopping, but on several occasions, when confronted with “difficult facts”, my exH would go completely wack, and scream this horrible banshee noise, as well as pulling out huge chunks of his OWN hair, punching himself in the face and chest with his fists, and tearing his clothes. Like a total 2 year old Tarzan-ish meltdown on steroids, done by a 35 year old man.

    The first time I was so shocked, I just stood there…I mean, it just went on for what seemed forever, then he did the dramatic sink-to-the-floor fetal position sob that is clearly featured in their handbook somewhere. Then, just as quickly as it started, he simply took a deep breath, stood up, and went out to the porch to smoke. And it was like…WTF just happened? The only good news was that during one of the meltdowns he ripped up the nasty black flammable velour pj’s that the skank gave him. So that one was worth it to have that piece of nasty out of my bed. Yay for tantrums!

    So definitely one of the things I do NOT miss about him. Can you imagine having children witness that kinda crazy?

    • ReDefiningMe:

      Mine, too! He would tear his clothes off and punch himself when confronted. It was very disturbing. I had a running count of things that had made contact with his head in my house: The TV Remote, a paper towel holder, a door jam, the refrigerator, the living room floor. He had to make himself the victim, and if I wasn’t going to hit him (I’ve never hit anyone in my life), than he was going to wage war with inanimate objects.

      Crazy.

      • ChumpLady – you are awesome.

        The kids and I love Hobbit/LOTR – my daughter actually would like to marry “a nice guy like Sam” and my son can perfectly voice Arwen, dwarves, Smaug, and especially Gollum (who he compares to his “dad”). We actually have used those movies to talk about choices, greed, and how wanting what “isn’t yours” can ruin your life.

        Mount Doom indeed 🙂

    • ReDefiningMe,
      Growing up, I witnessed my father doing these very things over and over each time another confrontation began from my mother about yet another infidelity ( many many many). He punched himself in the face, smashed his head against the walls, broke things over his head, and the worst was going out to the barn with a shotgun saying he was going to blow his brains out because WE wanted him too. He went out to the barn, and we heard the gun fire. My mom was so emotionally scarred and raw by then she just sat there. I went out to see if he had indeed shot himself. Nope. He was sitting on a haybale grinning at me. I was 16. She finally left him when I was 18 (which triggered all kinds of outrageous behavior and lies to cover his ass to the public), but it was years worth of damage for her and us kids. My brother used to climb out the window when the fights would start, because he knew what was coming. I hid in the closets a lot, and sometimes went down stairs after it got quiet to make sure no one was dead or stabbed. He slept with the 17 year old who lived down the street, he had an affair with a girlfriend of mine ( in high school )who used to come spend the night with me, and so on and so on, too many to name. We didn’t know until years later about that one. His norm was to call my mom crazy anytime she balked or questioned his blatant affairs. He kind of wrecked her and she was in survival mode most of our childhood. So, kids DO witness this shit and yes, it impacts them. I have no relationship with my father now. He is a full fledged narcissist socio and a con man who pathologically lies. Apparently his new girlfriend can’t understand why his ‘horrible’ daughter won’t talk to him. She clearly has no idea the man she is with. He doesn’t try to have a relationship with me anyway, because that would mean addressing the real issue why we don’t talk and he will never, ever admit he did any of those things, including cheating on my mom every other day. The day he stopped trying with me was the day I said “I know what you are and you know I know it.” I was 18. WE had very minimal contact after that but I haven’t talked to him in at least 15 years now. My mom and I are very close. I’m sad for the years she suffered, but I understand her inability to leave sooner better now because I ended up in an abusive relationship and experienced similar mindfucks where you aren’t even sure what reality is. So, years later I got married and cheated on my husband. I knew it was horrible and I have huge guilt and remorse over it. I am not my father, but I had no idea how to function in a normal relationship. It’s not an excuse, I knew it was wrong. I have since done some serious introspection and unraveling of my own dysfunction. I’m a better person now, so some cheaters do change. My dad never will, I understand that, but I am not like him. I have empathy and will always regret hurting my ex husband the way I did. I feel dirty admitting what I did, so I do feel shame. I don’t feign ice picks to my head but instead feel like I a deserve an ice pick to my head, even now many years later. I still don’t forgive myself, nor should I. I got my heart stomped on more than once after the divorce ( including the abusive relationship), and yet it doesn’t compare to the pain I caused my Ex, I still feel I haven’t paid enough yet. I’m sorry to the chumps. I’ve been a chump but I’ve also been a cheater. I know I will never do that to someone again.

      • Chik,

        Big hugs to you, and I’m glad you’re here.

        Your father’s actions were pure eveil. Your words give me courage, as it took years for me to realize that exH was truly a bad guy; I saw that behavior and believed he was damaged and wounded and I could love/fix/help him. My kids were 5 and 2 when he did leave; the 2 years old remembers almost nothing; but my daughter did hide in closets a few times, and witnessed one instance in the car that did some real damage. She despises him, but still loves him too. That part kills me; as I know how she feels from back then – the loving and hating. Your courage; and your mother’s courage in facing and surviving that is epic. God Bless you both – may you both live in peace for all your days.

        I can relate to you past as well, and it took incredible courage to admit. I was a cheater too as a teenager. It was encouraged by my mom, who thought I needed to “date lots of different people” – the fact that they overlapped for her was good, thinking I wouldn’t get serious (i.e. have sex) with anyone that way. I hurt some very decent young men – hurt them badly. One even pursued me after he was engaged, and because we had agreed to “see other people”, my thought process as a 21 year old was that he was MY boyfriend, and his fiance was the one at fault. I continued to see him up until the month before his wedding, when I knew it had to stop, and I ran away to Europe…and met exH who looked, acted, and was an almost perfect clone of him. Talk about karma for me. Oh, and that ex boyfriend? He and that wife cheated on each other..and divorced in 3 years. By then I’d married his clone-cheater, who brought me here.

        I have thought for years – and often still do – that my marriage, my abusive husband, and several other painful experiences in my life were my well-deserved punishment for being a cheater. My faith tells me that I’ve been forgiven, and I have done everything since then – for over 25 years now – to prove I’m NOT a cheater, and that I would never again do that to another woman, or to my partner. I never cheated on my husband, and don’t even remotely entertain flirtations from attached men then or now (and I work with 98% men, so there are lots of that kind of thing). I know that I have grown up, but I pray my children won’t make the mistakes I have – knowing you caused pain to others. I think we both know we did wrong, but continuing to believe that we deserve continued pain in return will definitely keep up trapped with the wrong ones. Maybe that’s one of the reasons I don’t date…I still believe I deserved it.

        • Thanks RDM. I don’t date either. If I ever do date or get married again, I’ve grown enough to know that I’ll never inflict that kind of pain on someone again. I’ve done my best to bleach and scrub out the ugly that lived inside me, but self forgiveness comes slow. I am a better person now, but I’m so sorry it came from hurting someone to see that I needed to change and grow up and stop letting my past guide my choices. Being sorry means nothing really, if changes doesn’t come from it. That’s what drives me.

      • ” I still don’t forgive myself, nor should I.”

        Yes you should. You experienced deep remorse, you learned your lesson, you improved your character, and you need to stop dragging the guilt and need for eternal atonement around behind you.

        We cannot change a single second of our pasts, but we can live a different kind of today and tomorrow.

        • From a spiritual perspective, chikadee, God forgives us when we experience true remorse, repent and change our ways. To not forgive self is arrogant and an affront to God because we are putting our own judgement above His. The proof of true repentance is the changing of the ways.

          • I agree that changing of the ways is the path of true remorse and regret. God may forgive me, but he knows I am still working on it and sincere. I still feel shame, but as with healing, growth takes time. I forgive others who have cheated on me, yet it’s taking a little more time for my own.

      • Hopefully, you are in therapy, as the kind of mindfuck you had at an early age really needs a lot of work. Yours is also another example of what may happen when parents remain in a marriage when infidelity is present. Others have discovered that their family dynamic prepared them to be Chumped because their pickers were damaged.

        CL, especially last year, had quite a lot to say about the varieties of cheaters and the ability that cheaters have to turn themselves around. While it’s rare that a cheater will exhibit true remorse, even in those cases where remorse is there, the marriage is still the casualty. Real remorse absolutely involves owning one’s unfaithfulness and doing the work to turn things around. It’s tough work, but even so, the marriage has been damaged. Trust was broken.

        Even so, just as divorce offers healing for the Chump, it also offers a chance for the Cheater to heal. Neither can do so in each other’s company because the Chump always knows that s/he’s been Chumped by the Cheater, and the Cheater has to live with having Chumped the Chump. Going their separate ways allows each to work on themselves so that they learn to build healthy relationships–just not with each other.

        • I agree Kb. I cheated, but honestly I’ve been cheated on more ( the father of my child cheated on me with my best friend while I was pregnant) , by multiple men. Almost every relationship. I understand both sides of the fence and also that my picker was worse than broken. I did go have some therapy when I was younger, in my 20’s, and it helped, but it didn’t really sink in until my 40’s. I feel more grounded and emotionally healthy than I ever have. I agree that it’s better to leave a dysfunctional unloving relationship rather than subject children to the confusion of it. When I hear that people stay together ‘for the kids’ without any real fixing of the marriage, I think oh no….more scarred kids who grow up with a warped sense of love, like I did. My ex forgave me, and was willing to work it out, but I knew I was messed up and didn’t want to hurt him more. We divorced and became very close friends, which is rare. He knew I was not a horrible person, but just really mixed up. He is now remarried and happy which brings me some comfort. He sends me updates here and there.

      • Thank you so much for your post. It is so insightful and is a true example of what remorse looks like. You have obviously given alot of thought about how the “ghosts in the nursery” came back to haunt you as an adult. I wish my X had been as willing to examine the roots of his behavior. The best phrase that I learned in all this was repetitive compulsion and it explained alot to me.

  • My STBX was the king of dramatic bodily afflictions, particularly after the affair began. I came to realize that if I were ever ill, he would always contract that illness, but with more flair. If I had a cold, he would catch pneumonia. My sore throat became his COUGH!!!. Honestly, his coughs were yelled across the room. I’ve never heard anyone cough as loudly as he did. They were obvious stage coughs. There were several occasions where I had to pretend to sleep while he pretty much screamed the word “COUGH!!” with much self-pity.

    I once had to stay home from work with painful menstrual cramps. This was during the painful phony reconciliation period. I just told him my stomach hurt, without getting into too much detail. The next day – like clockwork — he stayed home, curled up in bed moaning because “I caught your stomach ache.”

    Yes, that’s right. He was curled up in bed with menstrual cramps. I’m sure that after I walked away from him shaking my head that he called the other woman for some sympathy for his uterine contractions.

    • Lilybart,
      We may be married to the same cheater. He talked himself into having Parkinson’s and when his appt with the specialist came up, he did not want me to accompany him.
      I wanted to since I knew he could talk an MD into anything, being an articulate atty.
      Because…if I was there, I could have cut through the doodoo. Thank goodness the MD knew he was seeking cake. He even once said that he was prone to cancer since his mom had uterine cancer. I thought you were a man, but now you have a uterus? Coulda fooled me. And did!
      When our then 6 year old had pneumonia, he asked the pediatrician if he had it… I could go on. I imagine he went to his then girlfriends for tea and sympathy.

      • My ex claimed that his mom had cervical cancer (“cancer down there…” he called it.) Then he told me once that he was worried he’d have cancer someday since his mom dad (if she ever DID have cervical cancer, it was my guess that it was the STD type since ex’s dad f’ed every hooker/stripper/whore in eastern Europe). Yep buddy, dudes get cervical cancer ALL THE TIME. I can only dream he gets the “cancer down there” that will cause his bits to turn black and fall off. That would be karma.

      • Bostonirisher: Yup, sounds like the same jerk. Isn’t it interesting how obvious their self-centered nature is in retrospect?

      • Your ex was just nuts, but actually, colon cancer, breast cancer, and ovarian cancer can run in a family. So if a female relative had breast cancer, a guy might get be more likely to get colon cancer. Fun facts to depress you.

    • HE Caught your RAGpains ?? !!!
      Call the SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY….

      You Shoulda Thrown a Tampon at Him and Told Him to STFU and Have a MIDOL.

      • I thought the details of the man-cold were bad…I get “official notification” if he gets one, and I get graphic information of geography, colour, consistency, volume, frequency and flavour of all mucus-related excretions.

      • COUGH….COUGH….

        I’d send him an anonymous box of maxi pads, midol and cough syrup every Christmas….oh and a throw pillow just for the heck.

        Wow…

  • When I dumped my ex fiance, I told him that he needed therapy. In fact I had been telling him this for months, but he insisted that he didn’t. If anything, I was the one who needed therapy because I was the one who was unhappy and depressed. How could I be so unhappy? I was blessed to be graced by his presence!

    My ex was working nights at a building that was under construction. I told him on a Sunday that I wanted to end things, I couldn’t live the way we were living anymore. Monday morning, as I was getting ready for work, he shows up and tells me that he got laid off (how convenient!)

    Later, when I got home from work, he tells me that he met a therapist that weekend at his job. The therapist’s name was “John”, and they spent several hours during his night shift talking about his issues. So what did “John” tell my ex? That there was nothing wrong with him, of course!

    I asked the ex what “John’s” last name was and he said he didn’t know. It never came up! “John” also didn’t charge him for his services, because “John’s” office was going to be in the building and apparently “John” provided free therapy to all of the nice guys like my ex (ha!) that worked in the unfinished building (apparently, “John” was so devoted to his practice that he showed up in the middle of the night, on weekends, to “see how the construction was coming along”)

    I told my ex that unless he could provide me with a business card or a last name there was no way I was going to buy his story. He told me that wasn’t possible because now that he was laid off he couldn’t go back there. But hey, he thought I’d be happy! He finally talked to a therapist, and it turned out the therapist said there was nothing wrong with him! He did what I asked him to, so now I had to take him back right?

    I didn’t take him back. My ex then descended into a meltdown most toddlers would be embarrassed by! He fell to the floor and began kicking and screaming. He laid in a heap, pounding the floor with his fists. He looked up at me, his face wet with crocodile tears, and he said “Why won’t you believe me?” To which I replied, “because you’re a liar!”

    …and that was before I even found out about his cheating!

    • Temper tantrum on the floor!

      My ex also considered his OW to be his therapist. He thought dishing about all the things he hated about me and our marriage to her – while FUCKING her – was therapy.

      Ha!

    • HaHa, I had to chuckle at this cos my STBX spent sooo much time with ‘John’ from work. He’d stay with ‘John’ after I first kicked him out. He’d go out with ‘John’ all the time, went to the gym with ‘John’, you name it – he did it with ‘John’.
      When I questioned things that didn’t add up about ‘John’ based on what he’d told me in the past, there was suddenly another ‘John’ at work too!
      He even once said he was going away for a few days with ‘the two ‘Johns’.
      After months of pretending he was alone, it eventually came out that he was living with OW and I never heard him mention ‘John’ again. lol

  • OMG! These are hilarious! I just fell on the floor laughing! I wish I had gotten some of that reaction, to at least add some humor to my post DDay conversations. I only got the “ashamed” version, headaches and some tears three months after DDay when I finally decided to reveal that I was following his lies through the Skype messages to his OW. He was embarrassed and ashamed about me knowing his “dark side” but not so much about the pain he caused our family….

    • Yeah, I finally figured out that it was the fact that I SAW who ex really was that pissed him off so much, not that he was actually that person. He remains enraged that I see through him thoroughly. Even today he tried to make a simple text I sent about scheduling into something much bigger. I didn’t bite. I never do anymore. I just laughed and rolled my eyes that he thinks he can fool me about any single thing ever again.

  • So after he told me via phone “get health insurance, I want a divorce” I flew to Saudi Arabia where he was stationed at the time to discuss in person (crazy that I am, I believed marriages shouldn’t end with a phone call)

    I sitting with him on the couch going step by step through the RIC’s guide on how to save your marriage alone getting him to list the needs he has for the marriage. Silly me deviated from the guide for a bit and I began to list my needs that I had as well. He began sobbing, rocking back and forth, talking about what a failure he was. Chump me fell for this and said ” it appears you are overwhelmed right now…”

    His response?: “I am. Let’s go snorkeling”

    Well dumb dumb me fell for it and off to the Dead Sea we went for some snorkeling….
    Because don’t cha know that all overwhelmed people want to go snorkeling….

    On the bright side, I can now say I’ve been snorkeling in the Dead Sea. Lol.

    • “Snorkeling in the Dead Sea” is about the best euphemism I can think of for false reconciliation.

      As in, “I wasted two years of my life snorkeling in the Dead Sea before I figured out my cheater was never going to change.”

    • Ouch, how do you snorkel in the Dead sea? It must have hurt like hell. I tried to bathe in the sea after shaving my legs in the morning. The pain from the salty water getting into the little cuts left from the razor was unbearable. Can’t imagine getting any in my mouth or eyes…. I guess this goes well with the pain from the cheating… Or could be you went for the lesser evil

  • I don’t have any crazy antics from my cheater. But I did get him on his knees begging me not to leave him and take him back. Cake was ending and he was freaking out.

  • Oh! you guise (as my d22 and friends would say…). These stories are, sadly, outstanding.

    It’s like Cheater Performance Art.

    (I think I prefer the Meat Dress.). All I got, really, is many emails signed off, “At least you’ll have the life insurance.” (Of course, that is court mandated, but anything pathetic in a storm, right?). There were many tearful storms, but nothing like the magnificent displays of self pity you have all described. Where’s Mark Morris when you need him?

  • I wish I had something fun to share! My ex ran upstairs during “the talk” and took aspirin because he thought he was having a heart attack. Meh. He was a cold fish ever since and married the OW less than a month after the divorce.

      • Same here Sara,
        Chumped and never thought of again…. . Not even considered cake material.
        But as usual OW is so overweight, no education, rough as a …. Classic case of trading down to get more kibbles…..

        • Awesome you know he traded down. woman!! Mine was too busy cyber screwing images of impossible perfection (what is with the butt obsession?) By then he’d lied so much about his ex and the ahem- “football buddy” actress he was hanging out with I guess he had his hands full. So to speak.

  • Eh, like Kelly, I’m going to just read – mine didn’t really give a shit he got caught. The only thing he did was when I was at my lowest, in a deep depression that I thought I’d never get out of, he told me – Do you think this is easy for me? Everyone is mad at me!
    pfft, stupid me hadn’t found CL at that point so I threw him more kibbles and got me a therapist.
    Grabbing some popcorn and jumping on the couch to enjoy the stories –

    • I doled out a moderate amount of kibbles right after I found out about his affair. Looking back, I think I was just in shock. For about 3 days, I had absolutely no clue what I was doing. He was telling me how he had the sadz and was devastated and same as you, it was like I was flattened and more depressed than I’ve been in my life and . . . he really never noticed. He looked in the bathroom mirror at one point and said, “Wow, I look like shit. I haven’t slept or anything.” Five feet away, I’m gutted and staring at my shoes. Ha ha!

      It makes me laugh to think about it now; how he pitied himself while he ripped me apart and tried to financially ruin me. What a fucking loon he is! So long sucker. 🙂

  • Am I the only one to notice that CL’s cartoon of a cheater in a sleeping bag looks a lot like a big, angry . . . turd?

  • sooo…the staff at my office are peering into my office wondering why I’m doubled over with laughter right now. The Golden Sleeping Bag Award — LOLOLOL! I’m envisioning an Oscars-style award ceremony, where the past winner announces the nominees, shows a little vignette of each, and then presents the trophy to the newest winner.

    It’s almost surreal to think back on that day and remind myself THAT SHIT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. All the other outbursts from previous DDays were full of self pity for the poor sausage, who said he wished that I had a drinking problem or something wrong with me so he’d feel better about himself, who swore he’d get help/get counseling/needed to make changes in his life about sooo many things …. but the other ones weren’t as bat-shit-crazy as that day, because until that point, the OW didn’t officially know that I knew. I saw her text on his phone as we’d returned from dinner with his grandmother and confronted him, and he jumped in the pool fully clothed in his suit and shoes.
    The hiding-upstairs-naked-in-a-sleeping-bag-and-bunny-hopping-down-the-stairs part happened AFTER I called up the OW, told her what I knew, that I had proof from my PI, told her I knew that her own father had ditched her mother due to an affair and OW must be truly f-ed up to knowingly do that to another (I’d met OW’s mother & friends of mine grew up in the same neighborhood as her family, attended same church, etc. It was a well-known story there), that she belonged back behind the scummy bar where she worked previously, and that I would be suing her for more than she’d ever be worth (thanks to the “heartbalm” laws in my state that provide that cause of action). So in summary, I royally screwed up XH’s cake supply and HE. LOST. HIS. FRIGGIN. MIND.

    But looking back, that experience was undoubtedly the best thing for me – as it finally (!) clicked in my mind that it was time to step awaaaay from the crazy, and there was nothing wrong with me for wanting to divorce that clusterfuck-of-chaos.

    So to all of the nominees for the Golden Sleeping Bag Award — Congratulations, fellow survivors! and Cheers to a much happier life now!

    • BarristerBelle — you realize your ex set the benchmark for crazy, don’t you? The Golden Sleeping Bag award! I think you should open the envelop and crown the next winner, for sure.

      And I totally get the looking back and going OMFG that was my life? That happened? I lived in that psychodrama? Thus this blog. It’s a better life after the bunny hop.

      • I gotta admit, the other day I was in a crappy mood and vented my misery but this life is definitely better than 3 years ago. Being able to ignore his ranting texts and emails and laugh at how crazed they sound is so much better than the bunny hop! 😉

  • My X has some very serious medical conditions, which made it all the worse when he would use them as a way to avoid the difficult discussions. I was always afraid I was going to give him his next heart attack or stroke. To be honest though, I was the one who really showed my ass. I was so damned furious about what he had put my family through, I did ALL the “wrong” things. Called the OW and cussed her out (and I don’t care what anyone says, it was the best thing I ever did), leaned on my kids way too much, begged X to come to his senses; I was a total train wreck.

    My X, on the other hand, was the master of under dogging me. Poor him. He had “ruined” everything, he was the laughing stock of our community, his kids would never respect him again. All true statements, but I was supposed to feel bad for him. It became clear to me that he was the master of avoidance. Whenever the discussions got tough, he would find a way to throw me off track. Another page out of the cheater’s handbook…

    • Way to go Louise! Love that you called the OW out. Why should we have all the consequences of their actions and they have none? I’m sure it won’t penetrate their heads or make them suddenly have a soul or a conscience, but it sure feels good.

      I too confronted the OW. I wanted her to know that my children and I are real people, not just obstacles to the high school grade romance that she and my husband were having. (Sample dialog from their texts:
      OW: do you like chocolate?
      H: Yes.
      OW: Wow that’s amazing. I like chocolate too!)

      • Here’s a sample of my X’s to the OW:
        OW: Haha! you have a baby! Gross diapers!
        X: I’d like to change your diaper.
        OW: I wish we could do a shot of Jaeger together right now.
        X: Gulp.
        OW: I’m thirsty for YOU
        X: Parched.
        OW: You are my whiskey.

        So, so so 1) disgusting 2) pathetic 3) can I reiterate pathetic?

    • Kudos Louise for calling out the OW. I still play little mean tricks. Like yesterday. Little background – she was a good friend of mine and I knew her daughter/granddaughter well. I KNOW she doesn’t want them to know she’s fucking my husband at this current moment. (he has to hide like on Easter Sunday when daughter and family comes over) I assumed (bluffed) daughter didn’t know anything about her affair with my H.
      So – and sue me….I sent him an email that said I just got an invitation to a surprise party for HISwhore from her daughter. (well, Mothers’ Day is coming up after all)
      Told him I hit the ‘will attend’ button. He was at her house so am assuming she saw the email. (none of it true, btw!) Just hope she’s sweating for the next few weeks wondering when this surprise party will happen and when she’ll get to see me fuck it up for her. ha ha

  • Mine got down on the ground of the church parking lot sobbing. With his two hands, he held onto my ankles so I could not get into my vehicle to drive off. He made such a scene that a pastor from the church was tipped off of the scene and was called to intervene. Then my husband got up from the parking lot and started walking towards the freeway. This episode took another 45 minutes of my life. My husband did this after he was caught in another lie. This lie was after the fact that he swore that there would be “NO MORE LIES”. After that crazy episode, I moved our shotgun that we keep at home to my dad’s house and hid it. I wasn’t going to take any chances with my husband acting this way. The divorce is in process. I’m still holding out for more crazy behavior because he hasn’t been served divorce papers yet. Hopefully soon…..

    • He’s on the ground, holding on to your ankles. You have GOT to be kidding me! Then he tragically throws himself over to the freeway in such dramatic fashion..expecting you to dodge traffic and save his soul! What as assfart!

    • I am still laughing, you would think he could stay standing and hold something else, but no the feet make you go, gotta stop those feet. What a day at church then the freeway walk. Good move on moving the gun.

  • “It’s probably not even going to last with her! And my whole economy will crash! And I’ll end up homeless on the street!” (screamed at the top of his lungs)

    “I don’t even know if it’s real with her! Or just.. just.. just another THING!” (screamed at the top of his lungs, and first hint that the cheating was serial)

    “I TOLD YOU! I do still love you! I told you I wished I could split myself in two so half of me could still be with you! (screamed at the top of his lungs, with tears flowing)

    “You know, Muse, if you play your cards right, you might just get a second chance!” (Blubbered in a sobbing voice, with tears streaming down his cheeks).

    There’s more but I don’t recall it all. HIGH DRAMA. High dudgeon.
    Lots of narcissistic “it’s all about him”

    • “You know, Muse, if you play your cards right, you might just get a second chance!” (Blubbered in a sobbing voice, with tears streaming down his cheeks).

      This is hilarious!

    • You might get a second chance if you play your cards right? Is that projection or WHAT? If I manipulate my chump right, I might get a second chance!

      Wow. Just. Wow.

      • The night this happened he had just left our house on one of his umpteen trips to retrieve his belongings to go move into OW’s house. I was astounded that he said this… he had gotten into his truck then stepped out turned around and said that to me. I was speechless and he drove away.

        Then I went inside the house, slammed the door and said out loud to no one, “a second chance with a loser???? why would I want THAT?????” But yes. Projection of the most extreme sort. He said it again four more times in five months till I told him to stop in Dec 2013 and I’m NC since Jan 14 now. Still gives me some laughs.

        • Hmmm, ironically you did play your cards right, and you are getting a second chance – at an authentic life without the fucktard. I’d say you played that hand really well! Hang in there with the NC for the win!

      • I like the part where he declares that 50% of him is entitled to 100% of you. Not the brightest bulb in the box is he?

    • Oh god, I got the ‘it might just be you’ speech. Back when I was still ‘in love’ with him still wanting him back. So I waited for months after he moved out (he told me he was living alone but later I found out he’d moved in with OW).

      So one night I got really fed up stuck in limbo as I was. I confronted him. I said “I’m tired of waiting for you to make up you mind. What’s going to happen about the house we’ve just bought together, our future, our children, etc..”

      There was a long silence, he was out drinking and had gone out on to the street to take the call. Next thing I hear retching and he tells me it’s all too much and starts to throw up but lets me hear it all – didn’t even hang up while he puked.

      What do you say/do when someone is puking over the phone. I hung up.

  • Just like most of the posters so far, my cheater also threatened suicide. Honestly, I did not even flinch when he said it. I turned and walked away. Harsh, maybe. But I knew it was a scare tactic. He LOVED his life too much to ever end it! He didn’t have a hair on his ass to actually put that gun to his head and pull the trigger. The gun was right in his closet and he never even made an attempt to open the door. Stupid ass!!!

    He also did the two year old temper tantrum fits of despair! Threw himself onto the floor, all the while crying and screaming that he had “derailed” and would do anything to win me back. Which he never even attempted to do. Five ddays and still no therapy, no spending time with his family, still going out once a week with his OW (oops I mean “buddies”) drinking, working long hours and travelling for his hobby! WTFever! After the last dday (I’m a slow learner!), I told him I was DONE. No more cake. He cried every night…..ALL NIGHT LONG! We were still sleeping in the same bed (I didn’t want the kids to know something was happening yet) and I just couldn’t take it. I couldn’t get any sleep. He would cry and heave and get up to throw up. One night I jumped up out of bed, so damn tired from endless sleepless nights and told him he had better stop the crying and shut the fuck up or I would go sleep on the sofa or be forced to hold my pillow over his face until he stopped breathing!!!! Yes…..I was THAT tired!!!! LOL

    • My ex threatened to join the military if I left him because without me “his life was meaningless.” After the breakup but before I found out about the infidelity, I asked him when he was going to enlist, and he told me he couldn’t because at age 27 he was “too old” for the military.

  • Unfortunately, my ex-wife of hysterics in living room and bouncing off and on the couch as she shoved a throw pillow in her mouth, as I refer to it as cheater “trauma” was bizarre to witness.
    I’m a guy, but I liked those throw pillows. Those throw pillow didn’t deserve the saliva screaming assault as she hyperventilated about losing her cake.

    That night….she did the thumb sucking fetal position in a corner of our bedroom walk in closet.

    What a show….

        • Wow, P.F. She sounds like a prize. You know you’re living with a crazy person when you have to laminate the furniture.

          • LOLOLOL!!! New Chump List! You Know You Are Living With a Crazy Person If:

            1. “You have to laminate the furniture.”

            HILARIOUS!!!!

    • I am confused about the fetal position / closet thing. My STBX did the same thing. Alllllllllll the time….to the point where I would just step over him and get my stuff or put stuff back. I could kick myself for not viewing that as a “red flag”…or a thousand red flags I refuse to see still.

  • As I saw him drive by with the ow in our car I saw his mouth drop open, turn white and drive off at over 100mph, I know I was driving behind him and could not catch up, our car was finally a small red dot on the road.

    He must be a fast rate exiter because after saying “don’t make this harder than it has to be” he would run, literally run, maybe bolt, right out of the house, leave doors wide open, garage door, front door whatever, and leave.

  • PF I know it must have been traumatic to see your spouse like that stuffing a pillow into her mouth, it would be nice if she remembered being such a freak then.

    • Actually, that performance of attempted throw pillow swallowing as well as the thumb sucking fetal position in our bedroom closet was all about her trauma. Her pain…her loss of cake….her loss of the image she had manufactured.

      Witnessing her fuckupness saved my life, unfortunately I had to bury a very nice throw pillow that didn’t deserve to gnashed in such a horrific manner.

  • I’m almost 8 months divorced from Imposter Mike as everyone calls him–a husband of 10 years who pretended to be sweet, loving and doting, but who was having sex with as many other women as he could find in our home town and on Ashley Madison–preferrably married women, because it made him “powerful” to steal other men’s wives.

    So I found out about one of them in the Fall of 2012, although he swore he was happy and that I was imagining the whole thing. He had just taken a job 3 hours away, and was thus gone 3-4 nights a week. He was saying he wanted to fix things but he was doing nothing to make me feel better, and he’d get irate if I wouldn’t pretend to be perky and happy all the time.

    When he was away at his job, he would call me, and if I asked ANY questions, ANY whatsoever, he would rage and yell and say he had to leave the office, I’d made his bloodpressure skyrocket, that he needed to see a doctor, then he’d say he was going to kill himself becasue of me. I’d have to calmly try to talk him out of it while he blamed everything on ME being paranoid and suspicious. The conversation would end when he’d hang up on me, tell me that my words meant nothing, and that this would be the last time we ever talked, because he was going to shoot himself.

    He would then not answer his emails, phone or texts for a matter of hours or even a day or two. I was insane with worry and didn’t know whether to call someone (I knew no one where he was staying) or drive there (I had a job and animals to take care of, so I couldn’t just leave). Words cannot adequately express the grief and terror I felt thinking he would kill himself.

    This happend six times over the course of nearly 2 months. It finally occurred to me how selfish and manipulative it was that at a time when *I* needed to be supported and comforted, this asshole kept threatening to kill himself and I’d have to talk him up and tell him I loved him and how great he was so that *he* felt better!

    Finally, the seventh time he tried this, I tried to calm him down, and when it didn’t work once again, something in me totally snapped. I got extraordinarily calm. I told him to PLEASE GO DO IT, RIGHT THE FUCK NOW IN FACT. I said (and I still cannot believe I said this!): I WANT TO HEAR THE GUN GO OFF; I WANT TO KNOW THAT I NEVER HAVE TO PUT UP WITH YOUR STUPID SHIT EVER AGAIN. I told him it would be such a relief to me to be done with his manipulative, sorry ass, and that the world would truly be a better place without him in it. I told him to make sure he did it right so I wouldn’t have to take care of him, because to be clear–I wouldn’t. I told him I’d make sure he ended up in the worst nursing home possible if he screwed it up.

    Is that horrible? Yes. But I was also seeing a licensed counselor who said he was so narcissitic that he’d never kill himself, because he loved himself so much. She was right. And he never pulled the Suicide Stunt again.

    • Mine was the cold fish type at Dday, In fact he was fucking ecstatic ! He paraded himself and the OW around town proud as a peacock, while I was pretty much blindsided and DEVASTATED! That’s until I handed him my lawyer’s card and let him know that I was divorcing him. He begged for ‘ time and space’ and assured me HE didn’t want a divorce. I told him that it wasn’t all about just what he wanted. Anyway, when it came time to be around the settlement table with the lawyers, he was like a 350lb bowl of shaking jelly! Even my lawyer noticed it and said” look at his hands, he can’t even hold onto a pen.” Just goes to show you when they lose control and power over everything, they are reduced to a shaking bowl of jelly!!!

      • After Dday, when he announced he never should have married me, had nothing in common with me, no passion for me, had only married me so I would take care of a home and children, my ex also expressed that “I’m not even sure I WANT a divorce,” when I filed. This despite the fact that he had TOLD me he was interested in two married women — he denied anything physical, but in fact he was fucking BOTH of them, and occasionally at the SAME TIME.

        He actually wrote to my attorney to tell her that “It isn’t true that I told Glad I’m interested in another woman — I told her I’m interested in TWO other women.” My attorney couldn’t believe that one, he actually thought that made him look GOOD. He also called my attorney up at another point, crying hysterically and telling her that he just wanted to “buy gifts” for my mother, our son and my family. Um, okay.

    • Mary J..more out of the Cheater’s Handbook, I swear! These people do everything they can do deflect our suspicions, like turning it all on us! I got what you did..he accused ME of cheating on HIM, would hang up on me, and not call or text for days. I love love love reading the stories here today! Although they were painful when they happened, it’s nice to see so many here being able to look back at an insane situation and laugh about it. There’s so many good ones..I don’t know who to vote for!!

    • I love this story. It’s exactly what a disordered narc needs — to hear that their bullshit is OVER. You rock, Mary J!

    • Nah, I don’t find it horrible, what he did was horrible, because he mindfucked with your head all along! That’s so not right!

    • Yes, it sounds horrible, but I know exactly how it feels to be manipulated in that way. You did the right thing. Good for you.

    • What a story. And your counselor was right on. And if a narcissist with no intention of suicide plays that card against someone he or she is abusing, then they are asking for a plate full of indifference. Which to a narcissist is like death, only with shorter consequences.

      This line really resonates with me: that your husband prefers married women “because it made him ‘powerful’ to steal other men’s wives.” I’ve come to the same conclusion about the cheater in my life.

      • A Person who Who ONLY Feels POWERFUL when they Are STEALING is a FUCKING WIMP of EPIC Proportions.

    • I think what you said was what he needed to hear. Basically that you weren’t going to fall for that trick to gain sympathy again

    • ” I told him I’d make sure he ended up in the worst nursing home possible if he screwed it up.”
      LMFAO!!!!!! Tears on my cheeks! Best moment of my day!

  • After the news of the affair, I was honestly contemplating suicide I was so destroyed. And when my jerk would ask if I felt sorry for him, has I thought about him he was thinking of killing himself….well, it stunned me. I mean I was really barely holding on, yet from his actions of cheating and LIVING with the ow at that time, he said that. Yes, all they think of is themselves, no matter what else, it is always them.

    • Tess I know how you feel. The whole ordeal had just wrung me completely out until I was just tired of living. Really glad I am feeling much happier now. Hope you are too!

    • Tess. I felt the same and then someone in his family said something to me that changed my outlook. I was sad, I was despondant, I was freak out and in shock and he told anyone that would listen “All this happened because of what I did, I hurt a lot of people” and people were like “no duh, ofcourse”…but what a family member of his said to me changed my perspective, he wasn’t saying it in shame, he was saying it in pride “look at what I did, look what I’m capable of, look at what I can do, I have the power to hurt all of these people”. It was the beginning of seeing for me, I still have a way to go but it was the beginning

  • I Got an Award winner…
    Turned off the ELECTRIC in the house so I Couldn’t SEE To Leave. * 1st Incident*

    2nd Incident : Stole The Keys to My CAR, that was Full of the LAST of MY Things, so I Couldn’t Leave. ALL of it woulda been Locked in HIS Garage that I didn’t have a Key to Open. To MAKE me Stay with him. ** my Destination was 2 States over…I guess I Coulda WALKED , huh ? and When I FINALLY got BACK, Sat OUTSIDE Cause My HOUSEKEYS were ALSO on The Same Keyrings ***

    WHAT AN Insane ASSHOLE.

    His Explanation for FALSE IMPRISONMENT… ” I Didn’t Want you to Leave”…
    oh..REALLY, you Don’t Say…

    CRAZZZYARSE !!!!!!!
    You Know Being KIND and RESPECTFUL to Encourage you to WANT to Stay…. NAH, Can’t do THAT..
    Be Cruel and Inhumane….SURE..TOTALLY Doable.

    They SOO Don’t GET It.

      • Nothing Hilarious About it.. I Got Raped After the 2nd Incident.

        5 People were Aware of him Stealing my Keys and My Having Nowhere Else to Go..NONE of them did ANYTHING to Help Me… Including..YES..a COP.

        • So sorry to hear about your trauma and rape. I hope you are on the path to healing and that he is imprisoned.

          • GOD’s Got a Prison for Him… He THINKS he Got AWAY with it..
            He Didn’t…Believe Me.
            I won’t get justice in THIS Life, I Know…

            But I’M Strong, and He didn’t get what he Wanted…to BREAK Me..

            I’m One BADARSE Bitch I Got MYSELF out of that Mess . He’s Nothing but a COWARD.
            I Let him THINK He Won…Till I Could get Away for me and my Unborn Child, at the time.

            it’s been Almost 4 Years….
            I’m still Alive.
            I’m Awesome.
            I’m FREE.

        • These Monsters only ACCELERATE their Abuse Until you Make Yourself TOTALLY Untouchable to them.

          My WORST Mistake was EVER thinking he could do Anything with Dignity, nor Allow Anyone to Retain THEIRS in having to Deal with them At All…Especially ENDING it with Them.

          • The 5 ” Men” who sat there and WATCHED the Shit and Did Nothing are JUST as Guilty.

            No REAL Loss to ME..Them..That City…
            NONE at ALL.

        • BRIW, it is awful that you went through that. I hope that you heal more and more every day and that you’ll become ever stronger than you are now. Sexual assault/abuse breaks you and leaves a dark stain that takes time, patience and understanding to fade. Luckily, if you are strong enough, you will grow past it. By what you’ve written here, you seem to be going strong and I hope that all will work out for you in the end.

          • BRIW – my God. The strength you must have had to get through that kind of abuse. This may be inappropriate but I almost think rape by a stranger would be better than by a husband. (yep, hands up for me on the rape) I really appreciate hearing your story as awful as it is – it sure makes me think *I* should have nothing to be complaining about. You sound mighty and I get strength from your words. Glad you hung in there and did what you could to beat the unfair system towards you and get rid of that Fuckwad for good. ^5

            • They KNOW when you WANT Them….
              He Soo Friggin KNOWS I Didn’t…

              Strangers can at Least Say it Didn’t MEAN Shit to Them..You Don’t…

              Husband or Fiance’….NAH…

              Horrid thing..Before… I Left him…He Made me feel Soo Damn Ugly, Pregnant and All…Hardly Touched me….
              at 3 months pregnant, I Looked to be about 6 months along, Because I was all of 98 lbs Before I got Pregnant.

              but as I Was Leaving..Forced me to Stay…Then Take it When I Didn’t Want Him…

              Yea.. Those Monsters Get off on CONTROL it’s Not the Sex.

              • and SheChump,
                RAPE Hurts….Doesn’t matter WHO Does it… Mine isn’t Worse than yours…it just..Different… It’s all Dehumanising. ** hugs*

        • Thanks for WITNESSING, Guys….

          I Keep thinking… at Least he didn’t Hit me..or Hurt The Baby… **Small Solace..Still doesn’t Erase what he Did to Me **

          Like I said on Other posts.. Regarding Pain….
          What I Went through isn’t SHIT compared to what the 3 Ariel Castro Kidnapping Victims from Cleveland Ohio went Through for a DECADE…..
          I Look at Them, and I Think… Man Are THEY Strong… I Only went through the Whole Relationship start to finish 9 months…Mostly Apart..

          I Think of the Little Girl Spawned by THEIR Psychopath, and I Weep for Her..but at Least HE’S DEAD.. Can’t hurt anyone Anymore…Can’t Come After them Anymore.

          Mine’s Still Breathing.

          I Worry about my Lil girl… EVER Having to be Forced to be Around him…

          I Won’t lie…
          I Pray EVERY DAY for his Death.

  • These stories are a combination of hilarious, pathetic, disturbing and shake-your-head-in-disbelief-at-the-disorder. The antics of the disordered cheaters are so bizarre, so over the top, and so SIMILAR in many cases, it really drives home the fact that something is WRONG with their brains.

    My ex never cried, flipped out or showed the slightest sign of remorse. The closest I got to that was a greeting card he left for me the morning I moved out of the house to my own apartment. The card said some such bullshit like he was feeling strange and sad and it was hard to believe it was all ending. I tossed it in the trash before the moving truck arrived. I don’t think he was really all that sad about my moving out, however, because I know for a fact that he had a nice party at the house later that day with all the OWs and various people he was fucking.

    • So right on, GIO. Reading your story, I realized that mine was somewhat similar. Zero remorse at all, if anything he kept mentioning the OW because she’s trying “help me as to what to do with you.”

      He too left a note when he moved out saying “Maybe with some distance I’ll realize what I have missed” or something to that effect.

      These crazies are cut of the same cloth!

      • Mine too…no remorse!! I had several Ddays over 2 months and each time he lied and lied and I was dumb enough to believe him as I trusted him!!
        1st DDay- nothing happened with the OW “she was attractive sure but I didn’t look at her that way. We had a close friendship where we talked about our problems. That is the whole truth and you don’t believe me.”
        2nd DDay- “ok we had feelings for each other but we pushed them aside. Again I tell you the truth but you don’t believe”
        3rd DDay – “ok we were in love but we never acted on it as I was married, I thought it was ok as I didn’t think you’d even care if I left”
        4th DDay – after I cloned his phone and recovered deleted text messages about anal sex etc “I slept with another person from work in August.” Another OW.

        That was the final straw for me after believing his string of lies!! I spat, punched him and kicked him out at that moment. Did a slight pick me dance afterward and didn’t understand why he wasn’t fighting for our family (we had a newborn baby and a 2 year old). He became arrogant, entitled and had absolutely no remorse! His mask was finally off! DDay was 3 months ago and I still wake up and cannot believe he did such things.

    • I must have missed that Hallmark card….maybe more accurate like this…

      I’m not really sorry at all,
      for cheating and making you bawl,
      This card’s to pretend
      That I’m still your friend
      Can you believe that I have the gall?

      With cute puppy on the front, of course.

  • I have told this story before on this site, but it’s the only one I got because he just shrugged and left too.

    It was about a month after D-Day, he moved out of the house. I got a text from him saying “FYI there’s a lump in one of my testicles and it’s very tender. I am seeing a doctor tomorrow.” I didn’t respond, I just shrugged, said “KARMA” out loud, and continued to eat my dinner while watching Judge Judy.

    He texted me the next day: “FYI it’s not cancer.” (He said “FYI” a LOT during our separation).

    A month after that, during his one and only attempt at reconciling, he screamed “WHEN I TEXTED YOU ABOUT MY TESTICLES YOU WERE THE FIRST PERSON I CONTACTED!!!”

    I started to laugh, which only made him angrier. 🙂

  • Wow, in a way, I almost wish my ex made an attempt at theatrically pretending to be sorry. I got some tears and a whimper of “I couldn’t help it” when finally, finally, finally being cornered with undeniable evidence after a long term virtuoso gas-lighting act.

    After that it was hot anger at me for my unfair pillorying. She had cake for years apparently, and bringing her into reality was not met peacefully. I still get echoes of that anger 2 years later…AND got that anger from the OM too. Lovely.

      • I got a lot of anger from final OW, mainly because I spilled that she wasn’t the only one to anyone who would listen. Also, I told her partner and that ‘made her angry’ because it ‘wasn’t my business’. Seriously. She’s banging my husband and she’s pissed I told her partner? Fuck. Right. Off.

        Anyway, rumour has it that now she ‘doesn’t have a problem with me’. Which is, you know, really a relief to hear. Maybe we can go get mani-pedis together sometime.

        These people truly are insane.

        • Nord, I know you’ll sleep better knowing that she doesn’t have a problem with you now. Lol

  • I am blessed with the ability to forget the theatrics.

    I probably have some emails in the inbox (there are like 9,000+ emails in there) that could remind me, but I’m not interested.

    No chance of contending for the First Annual McDermott Staged Theatrics Award for Worst Actor in a Dysfunctional Relationship Involving Cheating because I am not going to do anything to try and jog my memory.

    But it is fun reading others’ stories from the cheap seats.

    • Me too, TimeHeals. I was thinking the same thing. And then I thought, am I just repressing the awfulness…or do I just no longer give a rat’s ass about him and all his shit-bird antics? Is this what MEH feels like? But I do love me some crazyass chump-tales. Off to pop the popcorn and keep reading!

  • My wonderful NPD wife just kept it simple. She blamed me for all of her short comings. After 14 years it was all my fault that she cheated,,,, even after the MC told her hun you have a serious case of NPD lol yea that was pretty funny she brushed it to the side like it never happened & I still think she blames me to this day. Yea she said she was sorry & that lasted oh about a month & yea I am a chump I actually thought it was my fault and tried to be a better man and prob still try too hard & trust me I am far from the mommas boy weak minded wimp. I just kept thinking of my kids and what would become of them if I was not there. I know I know you can beat me up for that. I will say that every little fucking illness is always ALWAYS a drama scene (sigh)
    IDK I keep plugging along,,, karma is on my side and as long as I stay honest do the right thing,, be nice loving,, giving, calm & sober the good karma will come my way and it does in spurts. And sorry if my spelling sucks just one of those things I dont worry much about in life !!!!!!!, 🙂

    • Micheal, not only did ex blame me for all his cheating, his parents did as well. Not in so many words but basically it was pretty much he wouldn’t have cheated if I hadn’t sucked so much as a wife. And that my freaking out when I found out he was cheating was really the problem. They still aren’t fully aware of his serial cheating – or maybe they just don’t want to know. Who knows, who cares. The only thing that bugs me is that I have to see all of them on the odd occasion involving the kids. I hope the kids elope so I don’t have to do entire weddings with that lot.

  • And the DRAMA oh my GOD the drama. In the end she was and is more worried about her image,,,,,fucking sad I sometimes feel bad for her.

    • They’re always worried about their image. I apparently ruined my ex’s reputation by telling people why we were divorcing. It had nothing to do with his numerous affairs – it was all because I told people. how’s that for disordered thinking?

      Oh, and 2.5 years later he is still angry with me. Because I ‘ruined’ things by flipping out, telling people, and not going along with his ‘we grew apart’ line of bullshit.

      • Its just fucking sick, when I caught her the only thing she was worried about was WHO I was going to tell and HOW SHE WOULD LOOK . She was not worried about our kids and how this would fuck them up the same way her mother fucked her up by cheating on her dad, not worried about what it did to me,,, she was only worried about how she looked,,,,,yea I am still fucked and no I didnt drop the bomb. I thought of my kids 1st. She will prob cheat again and yea it sucks to be the marriage police its getting old,,,but I just could not face a day without hearing good morning daddy or reading his last book of the night and hearing your the bestest daddy ever 🙂

  • I needed all of these stories today….and I needed to laugh, cry and realize I was not alone. He is being served divorce papers today — after I found out about at least 4 other women, and he has moved one of them (the 33 year old) into our home. So….after 23 years of marriage and 2 kids…..today is my new day. Goodbye dirtbag.

    • Keep your HEAD UP, hon..
      It Does get Better…
      If I can say that, Anyone Can.

      Congrats on Taking a Stand 🙂

    • Good for you! Keep going . . . it’s scary at first but your life will be better without a cheater in it. Promise!

    • My husband is getting served tomorrow, I know the feeling. It’s the mark of your new chapter, and it’s going to be awesome, I promise!! Stay strong! Congratulations!

    • No, you are not alone, and you can come through whole and happy to the other side too.

      Plus, your name makes me think of this, which got me through the roughest times.

  • I didn’t get much of an initial reaction, although he did take exception to me looking through his things and finding the prepaid phone. THAT is just wrong – snooping and invading his privacy, but cheating not so much.

    The one thing that I still can’t digest happened a few days after dday when we were still hashing things out. No theatrics, just head shaking. I commented on OW’s husband and what a great guy he was (former friends) and how I felt sorry for him and the cheater offered to get the two of us together to hookup since we were both so nice (meaning chumpy) and if I had sex with OW’s husband, then we would be “even.” WTF?

    • Those Assholes Always wanna get ” EVEN”.

      NASTY Creatures ,They are.
      Don’t SINK to his Level to make Him feel Better about being TRASH.

    • I am sorry I had to do a double take,,,,” get even ” ? Are you fucking kidding me he said that ?? ?

      • MichaelD – No joke. I didn’t even know how to respond. In hindsight, the funnier thing is that the OW’s husband didn’t know anything at that time, so what was the cheater thinking: “Hey dude, I have been screwing your wife for the last nine months, so here, have mine for a night and we’ll all be good.” I am sure in his twisted mind he never took it that far. Just anything to mess with my mind was good for him at the time.

  • “I didn’t get much of an initial reaction, although he did take exception to me looking through his things and finding the prepaid phone. THAT is just wrong – snooping and invading his privacy, but cheating not so much.”
    Same here, Lake! Unlike the other people here today, I didn’t get the dramatics or weeping, because he left for the OW. I’ve mentioned on other posts that he got pissed off at ME for possibly ruining his relationship with HER! That was his reaction..angry at me because I had the audacity to snoop through our cell phone bill that’s in MY name! I wonder how many others here had their spouses get angry because we “snooped” to find out the truth!!

    • YEP! Guilty as charged! It was the ONLY way to get the truth! I looked in his wallet, both vehicles, dresser drawers, coat pockets, pants pockets, etc. I put a VAR in his truck. I was a real super sleuth! And he HATED it. He thought such horrible things about me because I did that!!!!! How DARE I!?!?

      So glad those days are over!! My days and nights are drama free now!!! I LOVE IT!

    • How Dare you Excavate the TRUTH about Him, He Was Not Forthcoming with, to Decide your OWN Fate about HIS Shitty Choices that were Soo Affecting You.

      Shame on You for Spoiling HIS Deceit. 😉

      RATBASTARDS.

    • Yep I heard that too.

      Him: “Why were you looking into my stuff?”
      Me: “Because you’re a cheating fuck.”
      Him: “I KNOW!!!”

      Also, my X thought it was wrong of me to tell the OW’s husband. Ha ha ha. I’m such a meanie.

      • LOL….
        AH..you know..you get some Distance from this Shit..and it’s Laughable.
        Absolutely.

        • Ain’t that the truth? And for me, that’s the blessing about the whole thing; I thought for sure I’d never be happy again and I’d never get over this and now, it’s like I see the hilarity and ridiculousness of everything. I mean this man was a complete douche bag, I honestly don’t know how I stayed in the marriage as long as I did.

          Every time I read about a chump getting a lawyer and filing for divorce, an angel gets their wings. lol

      • A couple days after moving out of our house, I was on line in the supermarket, and right behind me was the husband of the more casual, fuck buddy OW my ex was screwing. I knew this guy (I knew both of ex’s OWs) and so I flat-out told him, right there on the checkout line, that his wife was fucking my then-husband.

        I guess that OW must have called then-husband and told him, because he texted me I was “very malicious” to have told the chump husband. Yeah, because fucking the guy’s wife was just an act of kindness, I guess.

    • I found out on FB because the stupid jackass and his stupid MOW thought to get around the cell phone thing using FB. The Jackass was furious at me for “snooping.” Literally screaming at me on the phone that the OW was “just his friend’s little sister” and I was paranoid, etc. Meanwhile–we weren’t married and he lived 3 blocks away from MOW. They both have cell phones. And then he tried to gaslight me about having had the page for a year. Uh, Dude–Facebook dates the start-up. It was 3 days after he “encountered” her at a memorial service for her brother. When I found it over 2 months later, there were no posts, no other friends. He said I was “paranoid.” But he was the one who “threatened me” if I “went public” about a…Facebook page. He is still furious and refuses to see me face-to-face because I “accused him of stepping out” on me.

      The mask slipped once or twice in the gaslighting stage, when he was trying to end the relationship and make that my fault. He once said he felt “horribly guilty” and when I saw him just before DDay, he said “I did feel bad” about something else he had done. So he knows at some level what he is. But my finding out that he was cheating–whether EA or PA– with this particular woman, in this particular context, and that he had betrayed our long friendship is intolerable to him. So he has to blame-shift, big time. He’s pathetic. And I get closer to meh every day.

    • Same here! I got the “how dare you spy on me!!!” Really? Well how dare you cheat on me and continue to deny it, so I have to spy on you because my gut says. “You lie.” Of course my gut was always more reliable than what came out of his mouth.

      • Yep. ditto.

        And then! He has a big talk with our son about the inappropriateness of spying on people. But I am NOT ALLOWED to talk to our son about the inappropriateness of lying, cheating, stealing, breaking marriage vows. Go figure.

        • Ditto here too I got the “how dare you invade my privacy” and “you don’t fucking trust me” – the gut instinct never lies, I only jumped over his shoulder and demand to see a text message as my instincts knew something was off!! They only get so defensive as they have everything to hide!!! And shitballs little did I know I was about to live my worst nightmare!

    • Yes, I ruined their relationship too, ruined it all. Must have been hard explaining me when he told ow he was divorced.

      • “Yes, I ruined their relationship too, ruined it all. Must have been hard explaining me when he told ow he was divorced.”
        Same here, Tess! The OW was told from Day 1 that we were divorced, which was nowhere near true. He carried that lie on and on for 3 years. The only way she found out? I called her on DDay! She actually said she was done with him. That lasted 2 weeks! That’s why he was so pissed at me..I had the nerve to confront the woman he’d been with for 3 years..shame, shame on me!

  • The first 2 times I found out – I just got the goldfish stare (nothing going on in there, let me tell you) The third time – after I contacted his sweetie pie- he lost his shit completely, forced me into a car, hit me, threatened to flip the car and kill us, leaving our son an orphan. All while yelling “Are you happy now? Look what YOU’VE DONE! This is all YOUR fault!” Finally he stopped at a stop light and I jumped out of the car, ran across 4 lanes of traffic, into a 7-Eleven and called the cops. I only wish I’d been there when the cops found him hiding at his moms house. Of course the next time we spoke he had decided that he couldn’t possibly trust me now that I had pressed charges against him….

    • JEEZZZUS….
      Aww Hon… I HATE that happened to you…

      Fuck his TRUST….

      What REASON does ANYONE Have to TRUST Someone who ACTS like THAT ?!

      PLEASE Tell me that Crazzy Motherfucker is OUT of you and your Kid’s LIFE.

      • Of course not, that would be too easy. At least it’s only every other weekend, and he knows that if he pulls any shit I won’t hesitate to call child services (which I’ve already had to do once), the cops and anyone else who can enforce some kind of consequences for his shit. So now he’s moved on to refusing to pay child support, his sons medical bills, etc.
        I still can’t believe I was married to THAT. And it just goes to show anyone can be a victim of abuse (cheating, verbal and physical). I’m a smart girl, good family, ivy league educated – thought i’d be immune, but no.
        I’m so meh about it now, and if I can, anyone can!

        • I’m glad you were beleived by cops, my ex set me up for arrest, shit was hard to get out of after that. Is why I can’t really laugh at the pity me shit he pulled much, it was all a tapestry of abuse and control that I didnt recognize soon enough. Smart abuser that he was, he even used the cops and courts against me. He only over played his hand when he pointed a gun at me, he didn’t realize he woke the dragon with that move.

  • My STBX is pretty normal, just abandoned us out of the blue.

    But my father was completely messed up. He was still living with my mom while waiting to move out to a new place in a few weeks. In the meantime, he disconnected the refrigerator and bought one of those little ones you see in hotels and put that little refrigerator in the living room. Because he didn’t want to waste electricity. He had also disconnected the washer, dryer and water heater so my mom had to dry her laundry outside and shower with cold water.

    She has been divorced now for 8 years but despite the fact that he was the one who cheated for over 20 years, stole money from her, verbally abused her (and us) and despite the fact that she never cheated on him, one of his complaints about her was that she never made him coffee in the morning.

    LOL. He is seriously messed up, but I think it’s too late to turn him to a mental institution.

    • No Coffee = Years of Abuse for these Assholes…
      Yep..THAT Makes it about Square….**eyeroll*

      O M G….
      Yea..They Seriously have No Concept of what ” EVEN ” is….
      I Dunno…Forgetting to pick Her up some Tea from the Store when Out ?
      SEE THAT to a SANE Person would be ABOUT the SAME….

    • Nat, one of the reasons my STBX gave me for leaving me and cheating was that I didn’t make coffee for him in the morning either, but that he always made it for me…while I made breakfast for him and our kids. Oh, yeah, and we own a Keurig machine…

      • That reminds me of one of my ex’s reasons for leaving the marriage: I didn’t like to play board games often enough.

        • Mine told me it was because I was cheap because I used coupons! Also, I wasn’t “soft” enough and I needed to “step it up” whatever the Hell all that meant! I’m no dog mind you, but he traded me in for a short, fat, married cheater who hangs on Facebook all day flirting! He fell “in love” with her after 3 days of screwing in a Florida hotel room! So much for 38 years of marriage and 4 kids!

    • I’m not a coffee drinker, but I made coffee every morning for XH for 20+ years and brought it to his bedside. Then I’d awaken him with soft kisses across his cheek and tell him it was time to get up before I turned on the TV so he could catch the morning news while he sipped his coffee.

      I packed his lunch every day, did his laundry, had dinner waiting on the table when he got home, did almost all the child care…and he STILL felt entitled to MORE. His excuse for cheating? I didn’t pay enough attention to him.

      So, Nat, they’ll ALWAYS find fault – no matter WHAT you do…

    • Sad the just abandoning you “out of the blue” is normal on the cheater spectrum…as compared to throw pillow eating, and hopping around in a sleeping bag and if male, claiming to have menstrual cramps…

  • The first dday was revealed by saying, (with crocodile tears, of course),”I’slept with someone, I think I have AIDS, oh, and you really need to get tested too.” Translation…”I’ve just dropped the biggest bomb on you, but i need you to be distracted for fear that I AM dying, and you might be too.”..he went on to say that the Dr. he consulted said if we were positive, we could expect to live for another 10-15 years!!! He did not have AIDS. I tested negative too.

    • Hold on WTF ARE YOU SERIOUS AIDS !!!!!!?? Let me pick my jaw off of the floor,,,,,,,,holy shit !!!

    • **shakes head ** NICE.

      Only thing Better is Having to Get an HIV Test Done, when you’re Over 8 months Pregnant, Cause the Arsehole RAPED you when you’re carrying HIS Kid, After He’s Been Screwing GOD Knows WHO, since you Walked Out on his Arse, Before.
      TRUE Story.

      Luckily, Negative Too.

  • Hello Chumps, ok time to stand up and shout I AM A LURKER. I visit chump nation every day for the words of wisdom from CL and all of the brave chumps who share their stories. Truly it is difficult to read the tragedies afflicted upon so many fellow chumps by betrayal, yet motivational at the same time knowing we are not alone, strength in far too many numbers. I thank you all for writing your experiences, which helps each other to gain some confidence knowing cheaters suck and we can go on with a new but different kind of life.

    This blog posting sure does make you lol at some of the crazy fkrs these cheaters are. I love the positive energy today.

    Anyway, this newbie here will not be honoured with any such award of a ridiculous display of poor-cheater-me got caught. My XW is one of those cold fish that acted the opposite of begging for another chance. In Ontario where we live, both spouses have equal legal rights to stay at the matrimonial house in a separation, you just cant simply chuck them to the curb. I had to live with XW in a post D-Day limbo for 4 months until she found, bought and moved into her own house (refused to rent even though I offered to pay the startup rent to expedite the separation, nah renting is “beneath her entitled ass” but I’ll take your rent money you offered). And during this 4 months of living hell, she would leave regularly and obviously for an overnighter stay with her OM (also married), comes home next day to wash her dirty lingerie, and leave her evidence hanging in laundry room to dry for days. Just a big and quite visible fuck you is all I got after 12 years of caring for her every whim. That was only a month ago she left and I have peace-of-mind at last free from this lunacy. Karma Bus already drove to her new house for a visit with major repairs required after only a month of ownership, flooded basement and septic system caved in. Good luck with that $10,000 bill, separation is signed, assets divided, and I dont owe you another fkg dime!

    • Good for you, ChumpedinCanada!!

      How disrespectful of her to leave her evidence like that! One of her many faults, I am sure.

    • Welcome! Another Canuck chump!

      Oh, I think the hanging her dirty drawers is a contender — but a passive aggressive one. God, that must’ve been the longest four months of your life. Congratulations on your freedom! And your dry basement.

    • Oooo, I love the karma bus. I kept the family car so my ex’s lover’s family gave up one of theirs. Less than a month later, a cop crashed into it and totalled it. Sometimes the law is on your side.

  • All I remember is blame shifting and projection. Probably the garden variety displays you are all quite familiar with. My ex could be extremely verbally abusive. It still haunts me today, that in those early days, even before Dday, but especially after Dday, I actually believed it, like the chump I am.

    Some of the classic quotes………..”I wouldn’t have needed to cheat if you loved me more” ………….”I felt obliged (to fuck him) because he listened”………..”there’s always 2 sides to every story”

    I’ve got bucket loads of them. Please note each of these examples have oodles of narcissistic projection and blame shifting. At times I feel foolish for falling for this shit, until I learnt about NPD/BPD. But then I realise, I would have had to have been a psychotic mindfuck like one of these creeps to have picked up on it. No shame in that, as long as we learn from it.

    Oh, and would just like to throw in marriage counsellors, psychologists etc into the mix here. Did anyone else have the experience of not only having to deal with a psycho blame shifting, projecting cheating spouse, but when you’re told it would be beneficial to get “professional” help,( and I use that term extremely loosely) the MC turns out to be just as bad. It makes me seriously ill, to read the same story from others on this and other forums. MC’s who think we should “own our part of the problems in the marriage”?
    In my experience, they are either as dumb as duck shit, and follow the guidelines set out for them by the next category……….the narcissistic, can so comfortably relate to cheating type MC. They so comfortably blame the victim. Chumps are easy targets. You only have to search the internet to find plenty of it. …………and just send $400 and they’ll send you the book and DVD so you can understand why us chumps are really the ones at fault here.

    • Yes, you should look into Dr. George Simon! I had the same shit. We went to marriage counseling, and she bought into his bullshit because he was such a “nice guy”. Thank goodness I didn’t go to her for long.

    • “you can understand why us chumps are really the ones at fault here”

      You ARE at fault for being a chump if you didn’t either (1) permanently nip that shit in the bud with some draconian boundaries and consequences the first time it happened… OR alternately if “nipping” didn’t work (2) make that marriage a thing of the past immediately if not sooner.

      We can’t earn the respect of others unless we first respect ourselves enough to refuse to be diminished, demeaned, and exploited. Don’t know about anybody else, but I can “love” something dangerous from a distance.

      Being codependent and believing that you can fix the cheater is in and of itself a kind of narcissism. And codependents are so freaking outraged when (DUH!!) enabling does NOT produce change. Somebody on here has a shrink that uses the term “Fuck Me Narcissists.” I think that applies to codependent “fixers,” too.

      One does not have to be a marital cheater to be a narcissist, psychopath, or anti-social personality. During my years in practice, I saw some really wicked people whose vice of choice was not marital infidelity. There are all kinds of other “tweaks for freaks,” too. Get some years of up close and personal experience with them by doing “Cattle Call for Crazies” and you can discover that too.

      • Speaking from my own experience, codependents often do not believe they can fix an addict or a cheater. They have developed a model of life that says they are responsible for the lives and happiness of others. And as someone who was raised by a high narcissist mother, that faux “responsibility” sits in the place where real self-care and self-regard should be. It takes tremendous work and support to transcend and heal that particular form of child abuse. A view from someone who’s been there, and heard this explanation from multiple therapists, for what it’s worth. That doesn’t mean that codependents aren’t responsible for their own lives, just that it often takes a lot of failure to see that what you learned in your first 25 years was all wrong.

  • My ex was the kind of person who barely shed a tear throughout our 32 year marriage. I remember him worrying for months about the fact that he “felt like” crying at his grandmother’s funeral. I kept telling him it was NORMAL to cry at a close family member’s funeral!

    Anyway, this is how D-day went down for me. He’d been traveling for weeks for business. He’d be gone a week, come home a day, then leave again. He’d just gotten home the night before and I was looking forward to spending time with him. I asked him the next morning if he wanted to go to a movie or something that evening, but he just said no and went outside, shutting the door in my face. Well, after so many weeks of trying to connect with him and getting nowhere, I got really upset and followed him outside, crying and asking why he never wanted to do anything with my anymore? That’s when he burst into tears and said “Gosh, I don’t know why I’m feeling so much emotion.”

    After that we went upstairs and he said he wanted to talk. I kept asking him “what is it?” as the anxiety rose up to an almost unbearable level in my chest. I knew whatever it was, it was bad. We were sitting on the couch and he blurted out “The problem is you.” At that point I just stood up and started to walk out of the room because I didn’t have a response for “the problem is you.” I didn’t know what the hell he was talking about.

    Well, he then burst into tears and started telling me he didn’t love me any more. He couldn’t really give me a coherent reason why. He just kept wiping his face and asking “where did those feelings go?” in the most pitiful voice imaginable. I actually felt sorry for him and thought “he’s having a midlife crisis.” I knew he’d been under tremendous pressure at work (or so I thought). I kept reassuring him that he was just under too much stress and that the feelings would come back. I told him that love is more than a feeling, it’s a commitment, and that I’d also had times I didn’t feel so starry-eyed myself. But I was sure if he could slow down at work and start spending more time doing things with me that his feelings would come back.

    After this discussion his behavior become more erratic and he started crying so much that I started to worry he might have a brain tumor or be in the middle of a nervous break down. I kept asking him to go to the doctor for a checkup but he refused. I even called his mother and asked her to encourage him to go, but he wouldn’t.

    We lived in limbo for a month or so as he tried to decide what he wanted to do. At that point I didn’t know for sure he was having an affair, although we’d had discussions about my concerns about his relationship with his married coworker. He’d always reassured me that I had nothing to worry about. One night I remembered that I’d seen him write in a journal that he was keeping for work. He’d always told me he was making notes in the journal because his project at work was so revolutionary he was going to be famous and write a book some day.

    While he was in bed asleep one night I found his journal and decided to open it. That’s when I discovered he’d been writing about me as I walked around our house, saying how I disgusted him, how I was old and he’d known me so long he was tired of me, how he couldn’t stand for me to touch him. He also wrote about being in love with his married coworker. I read how he’d already been to a lawyer and saw the notes he’d written for splitting our assets! I was completely flabbergasted and mad as hell.

    When I confronted him about what I read in his journal he told me it made him really mad I’d gotten into his personal stuff. I told him if he wanted a divorce he should just tell me and not make me try to guess what what was wrong. He started sobbing and curled up in a fetal position on the couch. Then he sat up and tried to put his arm around me, then fell back onto the couch crying “Now I don’t know how we’re going to get over this.” It was like my fault for opening Pandora’s box and letting the secret out. I was sobbing too. He said “I can’t believe I’m crying like a little BABY!”

    Anyway, there’s really nothing that funny about what happened, but it was awfully strange to see him bawling his eyes out like that. His histrionics were effective at making me feel sorry for him, for a long time I seriously thought he was having a mental breakdown or something.

    Then one day he stopped crying, and said he wasn’t depressed anymore. I actually thought things seemed to be getting a little better. I had hope that he was going to decide to keep our family together. The OW was married and I although I knew he was involved in an emotional affair, I thought maybe it hadn’t gotten physical yet.

    Then I came home from work one day and he greeted me at the door and announced he’d filed for divorce and that he was leaving. He kept saying “I care about your well-being” which made me feel crazy, because it sure didn’t feel like he gave a damn about me. He also reminded me that his decision to leave was my fault. With his hand on the doorknob, he said “When I look into my future, you’re not in it.” Then he shut the door and he was gone.

    • This dude, seriously, sounds like one of the cruelest motherfuckers on the planet. I’ll never understand some of these “people”. Blaming you for everything, it’s all your fault, and oh nice touch leaving the journal out. What a nice guy. He sounds like he was utterly exhausting.

    • Lyn – I saw that same kind of compartmentalized behavior with my own cheater. The manic sobbing to the emotionless freeze-out. I’ll never comprehend that it comes out of a living, breathing human, and I try to label it sociopathologic or disordered but it truly is alien. Reading your many comments, I feel you just outpaced him on so many levels, and he never deserved your true heart.

      • Seethelight, I thought his last line “When I look into the future, you’re not in it” was an extra nice touch. It still boggles my mind to this day that he could be so cruel. Until I found CL I didn’t understand how narcs devalue you. I remember feeling like an old rug he’d tossed in the trash on the way out the door.

        The next day he sent a cheerful email saying “good morning,” peppered with bible verses (he hated going to church). He wanted to get together so he could “tell me how this could work.” I told him to stay away from me. He seemed truly dismayed when he offered to help me move out a month later. Once again it was like “No thanks, buddy. I’ve had enough of your help.” Since the day he left I’ve only seen him once. Unfortunately I will have to see him again soon and pray that I’m closer to meh. I always say the day I can look at him and feel nothing will be a great day for me.

        Anyway, thanks for letting me know you saw the same kind of bizarre behavior from your ex that I did!

        • EVERYthing you wrote – except the theatrics and crying.
          I really needed to be reminded. I forget a lot of the specifics that stbx has said/done.
          I’ve gotten the cheery hellos, offers for help, “I still care about you”, it’s my fault, I should have done more sooner, didn’t see me in his future, offers to get together to “work on this” as if I’d happily HELP him dissolve our entire life just b/c he said we should. ETC.

      • Lyn,
        He sounds like a repressed and seriously clinically depressed man who did what so many of them do….had an affair and blow everyone’s life up.

        Severe depression can cause some people to behave in just as cruel a manner as someone who really IS psychopathic or narcissistic because depressives aren’t even able to be as strategic as the typical narc or psychopath. Severe depressives are chaotic and desperate in the extreme, and their reality testing is inferior to the narc or psychopath. They are so self-absorbed, so self-pitying, and so into navel-gazing that they cannot see past their own nose. The affair provides a “high” from all the neuro-transmitters released by the illicit and new sex and adoration, but these “highs” are transitory and the ride an emotional rollercoaster, too….swinging from almost manic to complete self-pitying meltdowns. And they have to go back and back to the the “high”..when what their asses need is some whopping doses of anti-depressants and a competent therapist.

        Mine did this sort of pathetic shit. Although he wouldn’t own up to the affair with the co-worker that I had already been able to confirm, he was like a ping pong ball. It was worse than sad. He had a horrible time coming un-bonded from me. He’d be around me, forget that he had made a decision to leave forever and to to “Elysian Fields” and be spontaneously affectionate, call me by pet names, slap me on the butt or thigh like he always did with genuine warmth in his eyes, etc, etc. Of course by this time I was so wary of him that I maintained civilized distance which I am sure he viewed as coldness but what they hell do they expect once they nuke trust? Then he’d go to work, get around the woman, and the shark eyes and detached behavior would return. Except when his eyes brimmed and he triggered and got all soppy and sentimental about some aspect of our 33 years together. As my old countrified Dad would have said, “He didn’t know whether to shit or go blind so he closed one eye and cut lose.” It is tragic, but they do it anyway and fuck up a whole family’s world. That’s why it is called, “The Crazy Train,”

        ” saying how I disgusted him, how I was old and he’d known me so long he was tired of me, how he couldn’t stand for me to touch him.”…this is caused by the affair. They get into lust-crazed dementia and self-justification and project all their negativity onto the closest object…typically the wife. They woke up in a stranger’s bed, cannot believe they really did it (because they view themselves as GOOD people).. KNOW that it must have been wive’s fault….SO they go home and pick to pieces a perfectly good wife and marriage. It’s self-justification, self-delusion, and blaming the victim… the defense mechanisms of choice for cognitive dissonance (commonly known as a “guilty conscience.”) And there is nothing a wife can do to change this.

        Mine did NOT end up with his affairee. I suspect she dumped him when she got tired of playing with him. But he is now dating an unsuspecting widow whom my daughters tell me is a big step down from me in all aspects (but then they are biased). He might actually make a go of it with her, but I am skeptical because the odds are real high that he has done no self-reflection or no “me work” and will recycle his piss poor coping skills and baggage into that relationship. In short: He will never “OWN his crazy.”

        Tell me, Lyn, did he end up with the affair partner? You many have disclosed this but I haven’t read your back story.

        • notyou, it’s hard to believe but he moved into her parent’s basement for awhile. Her family embraced him and I’m sure he told them I was crazy and threw him out. He bought a place near where OW lives and is doing things with her kids, I hear they call him “uncle.” To my knowledge she’s still with her husband. It’s seriously messed up and sick. I read in his writing how he was “planting seeds” to break up her marriage and have her to himself. He said he loved her children too. He wrote “all things worth having are worth waiting for” and “I don’t have to care what society thinks.” I discussed whether to tell OW’s husband with my counselor but she advised against it. She said coming from me (and him believing I’m crazy) that the husband probably wouldn’t believe it. I don’t have a copy of the journal to show him. Her husband has got to be blind if he can’t see it, or maybe he’s okay with it. All I know is I wash my hands of the whole sordid mess!

          • Notyou, I just reread what you wrote: “They woke up in a stranger’s bed, cannot believe they really did it (because they view themselves as GOOD people).. ” Maybe this explains why he yelled “OKAY, I’M A BAD PERSON” when I confronted him over the journal.

            • Lyn,

              You can make book on it. The longer that woman remains with her own husband the less likely she is going to leave and join your delusional X.

              He is going to end up butt-hurt, and he will deserve it.

              Good for you that you have washed your hands of the whole sordid mess.

              My life is so much better because I really don’t care what X does as long as he doesn’t upset my kids by trying to mind-f**k them. Then I can get..ah..”testy” (Or as my girls refer to it, “…the well-deserved apocalyptic and sarcastic evisceration… a la Mama Grizzly.)

              I woke this morning, looked out at the beautiful day while sipping my coffee and said to myself, “It is so gorgeous out there. Just looking at it is enough to make anybody happy.” My youngest ( the one with the deadbeat, cheating X…whom she has also reached “meh” about) is spending Mother’s Day weekend with me, and we will have a blast taking the “little grands” (whom she supports all by herself) to the beach, fishing, and just generally making memories with them. It’s a simple life but I don’t think it could get much better.

              There are some things that there is just not enough $$ in the world to buy. Peace is one of them! So, peace to you, dear Lyn.

              • What a great thought! Peace is something we sure can’t buy. I do have peace now too.

          • I WISH You Woulda Photocopied his Journal when you had a Chance and sent it to The chump Husband.

            Soo Sorry, Lynn.

        • Severe depression and lust-crazed dementia? Sounds like you’ve been sold a crock! This is not how good people act, even when they are severely depressed – just doesn’t happen! Bipolar can get a little weirder, because judgement really does go out the window when they’re really manic ….

          Sounds like a classic narcissist to me, the soppy sentimentality and the cold-eyed blaming the victim. Good thing you’re out! ‘Cause lots of anti-depressants and a good therapist are NOT going to fix this!

          • @ KarenE “This is not how good people act, even when they are severely depressed – just doesn’t happen!”

            Thank you for sharing that, but I think I have a passing acquaintance with DSM diagnostic criteria having spent my career as a psychologist, dealing with dysfunctional people of all kinds and intensities. And I can assure you from observation that severely depressed people can manifest all kinds of self-destructive and collaterally damaging behaviors.

            And you got your PhD in Clinical Psychology or your M.D in Psychiatry where? And how many years of experience do you now have using Axes I-V and the GAF scale from the DSM to diagnose and treat people?

            I know my X. He is not a sociopath, a psychopath or a pathological narcissist. He was clinically depressed when he imploded. He took too long to come to his senses, and I had moved on because that is what healthy people do.

            And you know what it took for me to move on? To lose (as soon as possible) that fucking anger about the things I could not control..including his behavior.
            I highly recommend doing that if you haven’t tried it.

            There was a poster here just today who owned up to having been a youthful cheater (and she is not the first to do so here). She has since realized the destructive magnitude of her behavior, experienced real remorse for the pain she caused, and changed her life. Are we all going to go beat her up and call her a sociopath?

            Bank on it. There are people on here who are appalled at their cheater’s behavior, but who themselves have done or still do one or more of the following: cheated in school, ” tweaked” their income taxes, regularly “borrow” a few office supplies for personal use, “fudge” on their time at work and ask a friend to lie and “cover” for them, or grossly exceed the speed limit on a consistent basis because, “… it is dumb, I am in a hurry; and if I can get away with it, I feel entitled to do so.” Character is what we do when nobody is looking.

            So you and I can just agree to disagree. You believe what you like because you are going to anyway; and I’ll rely on my judgment to make educated guesses based on the information supplied. If they are useful to somebody, good. If the information changes then I’ll go back to the analytical drawing board.
            One-Trick-Ponies are intellectually dangerous.

            • FYI, “lust crazed dementia” is a bit of sarcasm I coined to describe people in the sexual heat of an illicit relationship, just as I refer to denial and self-delusion as, “Rectal Cranial Inversion.” Please tell me you didn’t think that phrase was an APA accepted diagnostic label…

            • Just saying that taking a stapler home is a whole world away from abandoning a spouse and children, diverting joint assets to an affair partner, and committing the whole range of emotional and physical abuse chronicled on this board. I am pretty sure most people who speed a little or shave a few minutes off their work time may also slow down when they get a ticket or work a few hours extra to compensate. That is not in the same “bad character” universe as taking a blowtorch to the hearts and lives of people they have promised to love, cherish and protect. Of course I am not a psychologist, only someone who spent months trying to keep food down when I was betrayed.

              • You think I didn’t spend months unable to keep food down when my marriage was nuked? Don’t even go there! You do NOT have a monopoly on loss, betrayal, anger, pain, financial screwing over and having to rebuild a life after spousal adultery.

                And you are correct: Taking a stapler home is a world away from dismantling a family via adultery. But it is stealing isn’t it? There aren’t any “degrees” of lying, stealing, and cheating that make them NOT lying, stealing and cheating.

                And whatever it is within people that allows them to feel entitled to take that stapler home is just a milder variant of whatever it is in others who lie and cheat on a spouse. Who’s to predict when people who steal staplers won’t move on to bigger and more destructive dishonest acts? “Great storms announce themselves with a single breeze, and a single random spark can ignite the fires of rebellion.” [from Lady Hawke]

              • Even within the psychiatric community there is much disagreement about diagnosis, but I do not believe clinical depression is the root cause of most infidelity. People who cheat do so because they feel entitled, plain and simple. LOTS of people get depressed; it takes a particular breed of asshole to cheat. I also have to agree with LAJ that a minor act of theft does not necessarily portend greater misconduct in the future.

            • You Don’t think someone can Be Depressed, Psychotic,Narcissistic and a Cheater ALL At Once ??

              • BloomingRose,

                Yes, some cheaters have diagnosable co-morbid conditions. Some don’t. A lot of them are just plain assholes, but some are not.

                Just for fun, you might want to read about these neurological conditions that can cause sexual promiscuity. I’d be curious to know whether or not you would classify these people as “cheaters” if they also happen to be in a committed relationship.

                http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/huntingtons-disease/basics/symptoms/con-20030685

                http://www.helpguide.org/elder/picks_disease.htm

                http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/sexual-disorders/sexual-impulsivity-disorders-psychiatric-orphans

              • ” I do not believe clinical depression is the root cause of most infidelity.”

                I don’t either, Louise. But it can be a factor in some cases. You want to find and repost where I used the phrase “root cause of MOST”?

                Your cheater may have been a complete asshole. Mine was not.
                Did some of his own issues (which had nothing to with him being a sociopath or pathological narcissist) affect his decision to cheat? Yes.

                How about this:

                Have I personally ever been tempted to “cheat”? Of course.

                Did I give in to the urge? No, and I removed myself from the path of temptation. Being tempted and acting upon temptation are two different things.

                Do I think cheaters should be given second chances? Not typically, but can conceive of situations where it might be worthy of consideration.

                People are still missing my point about the “all or nothing” beliefs.

              • Clarification of syntax:
                Did some of his own issues (which had nothing to with him being a sociopath or pathological narcissist–BECAUSE HE WAS NEITHER) affect his decision to cheat?

        • NotYou & Edie (Hi Edie!)

          yes, yes and Yes. Yes some more… indeed. Like NotYou, my Ex is not with Dr.Hoe, the OW who participated in dynamiting my family. But he began seeing a different old GF while we were doing our divorce (in secret…WTF?!…we were *divorcing*). This is why it’s so clear that the hiding and seeking, and lying is so much a big part of the thrill. In the latter case, the lying was utterly pointless.

          However, he did trot out the news in order to re-devastate our daughter (gooood parenting, there, buddy.) I think he wanted to use her as a conduit to “get to” me. Idiot. Now she just double extra hates him. Poor kid. I hate that the kids get so much of the damage in this, when the CheaterPants parents are narcs. (Because it’s all about CP’s needs, right?)

        • He may be repressed and seriously clinically depressed person, or maybe he’s just a fuck-stick self absorbed asshole.

          • Some people with Major Depression people can be HUGE “fuck-stick self-absorbed assholes.” Try getting their miserable asses to be medication compliant even though they KNOW from experience that it makes them better able to cope.

            Probably a majority of them do not cheat but they ARE fuck-all miserable to be around on a consistent and intimate basis. They are so bleak, hopeless, self-absorbed, needy, whiny and labile that the unrelenting grind could tempt their partners to consider cheating….just sayin’…

            • Wow. I have “major depression”. It is self absorbing, but it doesn’t mean I can’t laugh with the best of them, or be a good friend, or that I leave a trail of dirt behind every step I take. Even depression is fluid, I would hate do have it define my very existence. There is still a lot of stigma around depression: I didn’t know it had a genetic component until after my mother died and I found her hidden medical records. I wish they’d discover my Prozac already. Miserable people are miserable people, depressed or not.

              • Me too. I’ve had an MDD (Major Depressive Disorder) for years. Living with a gaslighting, cheating, lying, mindfucking jerk helped not one whit. And yes, a huge genetic component (at least for me.)

                But as a Chump, I bend over backward to make other people happy–often to my own detriment, I suppress my own preservation instinct… kind of the opposite of “bleak, hopeless, self-absorbed, needy, whiny and labile”.

                And frankly, I think it matters not whether I have depression, brain cancer, one leg or three, or whatever. IT’S NOT AN EXCUSE FOR CHEATING.

                To be honest, NotYou, I’m calling you out on that one. I can very much understand how living with a severely depressed person can be intolerable–That genetic thing? that would include my insufferable mother. But even so, I would NEVER cheat. I would separate. I would find counseling. I would fucking leave.
                I have integrity. I’m not a betrayer or a cheat.

                No matter what you partner does or has, even if he or she is a “whiny fuck stick” it is no excuse for cheating. That’s asshole talking, imho. Otherwise known as blame the victim. Not cool.

              • Thanks named for. Depression is no badge of honor, or an excuse to whine more than than anyone else. But it’s very real and sucks like hell. My mother was also insufferable, but now I understand why she hid it from everyone. We all have a common thread here, I don’t think we’re having a suffering competition. Some have shared horrid experiences and others, serious health issues. Depression is another one, it’s just not as obvious as a broken bone.

              • People,

                Call me out all you like because SOME of you apparently don’t read my posts carefully.

                The thrust of about 90% of my posts is that one-size-does-not-fit-all. Must I repeat it? One. Size. Does. Not. Fit. ALL. People are unique individuals. Case by case, the emotional and environmental variables are different.

                This concept applies to mental illness and personality disorders. It also applies to people who cheat. What I am challenging here is the seemingly common assumption that ALL cheaters are character disordered sociopaths. SOME are. SOME are not.

                I did not say that I don’t have empathy for depressed people. What I said was that SOME depressed people manifest behaviors that are draining, needy, completely self-absorbed, difficult to be around and that in SOME cases their behavior detrimentally affects others. [Example? A deeply depressed mother whose extreme emotional withdrawal from her children helps cause them to develop attachment and abandonment issues] SOME depressed individuals cheat, too. And SOME of them don’t. Our mental status affects our discernment and our ability to make rational decisions and wise choices, and this includes depression among all the other conditions that impact brain functioning.

                Are we clear about the qualifier “SOME.” And the qualifier “ALL”?

                The statement ” Even depression is fluid, I would hate do have it define my very existence,” can be turned right around and applied to SOME cheaters. SOME people who cheat have led exemplary lives with a right up until the time they cheat. Is it fair or even logical to, “define their very existence” by the fact that someone like this cheated?

                In the original post, I saw a lot of spleen vented on Monica Lewinsky while Bill Clinton appeared to have essentially been given a pass… probably because some view his other accomplishments and his political orientation as out weighing the fact that he was a serial cheater. My contention is [given the common theme here that cheaters are ALL character disordered sociopaths and narcs] why would we want one in the White House? Are politicians to be held to a different standard? If so, why?

                Further, Hillary did not “leave a cheater and gain a life” because as Tracy noted Hilary went on to become Secretary of State and apparently continued to “gain a life” all of this without leaving the cheater. I don’t know the personal cost to her, but apparently her priorities were such that she was willing to tolerate a narcissistic (and very possibly a sociopath based on my observations of his extreme charm and duplicity) cheater in order to gain things that were a greater priority to her than a faithful husband. Her values are apparently very different from mine. As a serial cheater, his ass would have gone by the wayside a long time ago, and I’d have sunk or swum on my own merits. I’d not have used him as a “tool” for advancement. But that is my personal value system and apparently not hers.

                And, yes, depression can have genetic loading, most particularly in cases of Bi-Polar. One of the first questions in my clinical interview/social history involves the number first degree relatives who have been diagnosed as having some kind of depressive disorder. Then again, some depression is situational and not genetic which is why a complete inventory of stress factors and other health issues is also taken..and why a well-normed and reliable personality test with a high validity rating is also conducted. Sometimes referral for a neurological assessment is indicated. ONE case in point (among other brain based considerations)? Pre-frontal cortical injuries and the resulting scarring of the brain can cause significant and detrimental changes in behavior because our “executive functions” (one of which is impulse control) reside in that area of the brain.

                Newsflash: Not ALL psychologists are counselors or therapists. SOME of them specialize in diagnostics, and MANY of them are very proficient and accurate in the area of diagnostics. SOME do both diagnostic work and counseling. SOME confine their work to counseling only. And SOME confine their work to research, typically in a highly specific area.

                Further, people can come for mental health assessment with a “presenting problem” and after an exhaustive work up. the underlying problem turns out to be a factor or factors not at all obvious initially.

                At the end of the day, the bottom line is ALWAYS this: If you stayed with a serial cheater what is it in YOUR personality that compelled YOU to do so? What are YOU going to do to about it to make YOUR life better? How are YOU going to do this? Are you willing to let this destroy YOU emotionally? [Because if you do, YOUR problems are bigger than your cheater’s problems]. With respect to a one-time cheater, the situation becomes a bit more complicated. Can YOU tolerate even first time cheating? If so, how much time are you willing to invest to determine if this will be an isolated event? Everyone’s answer will be different because everyone IS a different and unique individual. It depends upon a variety of factors, not the least of which is your personal tolerance for ambiguity and risk.

                Knowing your self is much more important than knowing why your mate cheated or spending your time complaining about what a psycho your mate is. You don’t live inside your “mate.” You live inside of you and are the one who should be directing your own life.

              • sorry to make you bend so low to my asshole not you but maybe you should read your own post “Severe depressives are chaotic and desperate in the extreme, and their reality testing is inferior to the narc or psychopath. They are so self-absorbed, so self-pitying, and so into navel-gazing that they cannot see past their own nose. ”
                Check the mirror once in awhile too with your holy rolling.

            • Quote ” Probably a majority of them do not cheat but … could tempt their partners to consider cheating….” unquote.

              That right there negates the rest of your long diatribe. Please, NotYou. I have a handful of advanced degrees too. Neither I nor others here need a lecture on what psychology is, or isn’t. Nor do we need another poster tell us to examine ourselves to understand why our cheater cheated…which is the takeaway from your screed.

              My cheater, like the rest of them, cheated because he is an entitled asshole. Period.

              I certainly do not need a holier, I know more than you do, nah nah, boo boo, poster on this list to tell me to look at my own life. Um, D’oh!

              “could tempt their partners to cheat” ?!? I don’t think so, sweetheart. Check your ego. Cheaters don’t cheat b/c partners are depressed (or have cancer, or burn the pancakes, or what the fuck ever). They cheat b/c they are entitled assholes. There are always other options.

              And that has exactly zero to do with the organization of the discipline of psychology (although heaven knows, I’m awfully glad for you that you know so much.) /snark.

              • “Nor do we need another poster tell us to examine ourselves to understand why our cheater cheated…which is the takeaway from your screed.”

                No. It’s YOUR takeaway because you want it to be or because you didn’t bother to read the last paragraph of the post which clearly states: “Knowing your self is much more important than knowing why your mate cheated.”

                ***

                “My cheater, like the rest of them, cheated because he is an entitled asshole. Period.”

                You personally know each and every one of them? How omniscient of you. (snark)

                ***

                “I certainly do not need a holier, I know more than you do, nah nah, boo boo, poster on this list to tell me to look at my own life. Um, D’oh!”

                Simple solution: Don’t read my posts.

            • “Probably a majority of them do not cheat but they ARE fuck-all miserable to be around on a consistent and intimate basis. They are so bleak, hopeless, self-absorbed, needy, whiny and labile that the unrelenting grind could tempt their partners to consider cheating….”

              Yeah, you’re right. What was I thinking.

        • This sounds like my STBX! It’s the most confusing and confounding behavior you can imagine and it comes from a man who for 38 years had a solid reputation and definitely would NEVER do something like this and it happened in a heartbeat! Like aliens took him! It’s been 22 months of BS for me and I’m still trying to extract myself from a man who at this very moment is only 3 miles from our home in a hotel room with this OW and will not sign off on the divorce he finally said he wanted and I will more than gladly give to him!!! WTF?

          • Lazy + Control Freak Maneuver, that.

            Hope he gives your divorce Soon, hon.
            If there’s a way to FORCE that shit, I’d suggest you GO for it.

    • When you said, “He’d always told me he was making notes in the journal because his project at work was so revolutionary he was going to be famous and write a book some day” I instantly thought of the narcisissts and how grandiose they are. I once found a letter my X wrote to his Dad before I knew him; in it he talked about how he was going to meet the Mayor of our City and tell him how to run the city’s jobs programs.

      He also had lived abroad as a child (something we had in common) and he said to his father: “People (especially women) find my life story fascinating.”

      Your Ex is a turd of the highest order. I got those same bullshit lines like “I care about your wellbeing.” IT’S A LIE. They are liars and narcissists who only care about themselves – think about it, by having an affair, they already decided that your feelings and your life, in fact YOU as a person, are NOT AS IMPORTANT AS THEY ARE. “When I look into my future, you’re not in it????” they think of themselves as the Star on the Stage of their life, everyone else is just a prop or a supporting player!!!! (Mine said, head cocked to one side, “It’s over kiddo.” with a smile on his face.

      I am sorry you had to live through that!

      • Wow, it’s over kiddo with a smile is a super f’d up thing to say too. Made me have a chill just reading it!

      • newsflash, I just heard today that he loves me, he wants to stay married and take care of me and pay my medical bills but not be in the marriage, he doesn’t care how he has to live, he can live in a hovel.

        All I think of this is he does not want to have to go to court and have it be on record what a dickwad he is.

        Sure he loves me, I’m on top of the world.

        It is just a cover, so you don’t suspect them and then yes they do whatever plan they have thought up.

        This whole thing has me so paranoid.

        • “….but not be in the marriage.” You should be paranoid! What about that sounds like a good plan?

        • It’s more of the “I care about your wellbeing” as they’re walking out the door. Saying that helps to mitigate their guilt. I will say, however, that my ex did agree to provide maintenance for life, which doesn’t happen very often. So maybe he did care enough not to abandon me financially, or maybe my sons threatened to beat him up if he didn’t. Anyway, I have a friend who was married just as long as we were, and her ex completely abandoned her financially. She is living on disability and welfare. So I feel very lucky to be financially okay for now. Not living high on the hog, but modestly comfortable.

          • I have not doubt that STBX loves me….
            as a mother.
            As I look back now I realize that’s the role I filled for him. I think he would be entirely alright with a plan such as the one your STBX is suggesting, Tess. In fact, that’s the way we lived during the last few years of our faux-reconciliation. But when he finally met “THE one” he had to fess up and deal with the fact that it was NOT okay with me to stay “in the marriage, but not be married.” I think the another term for that arrangement is CAKE.

        • any more from him Tess? What are you afraid he’s going to do? I don’t know what your divorce status but I hope you have a decent lawyer behind you. Bat that fly away, it’s just noise. I never did well with my exes version of love. He might as well have said, ‘I lie to you’ every time he puked up an ‘I l**e you.”

  • I got the stoney silent treatment for 2 years…
    …. then I sold the house (as instructed) and suddenly he was bleating that I had “NO idea how hard it was (for him) to start again at 50”
    Poor man.

  • Question for CL and all Chumps: Do you think that the ones who threw their fits, had their theatrics, threatened suicide, ate pillows and wrapped themselves into sleeping bags still cared maybe just a LITTLE for their spouse/significant other? As opposed to those of us who just got abandoned on Dday? It seems to me as though all of the stories here show that maybe there was a little bit of caring somewhere deep down inside, where the ones that just left us with no reaction at all just didn’t give a rat’s ass about us in the least little bit!

    • My gut feeling is that the cheaters who abandon, maybe know that their behavior is so reprehensible, they can’t defend it or even look you in the face. The cheaters that do the theatrics maybe feel they can still pull some kind of con on their chump.
      I don’t think either of them really care, other than for their own images.

      • In my case I think all the crying was manipulation to keep me off balance. It actually made me feel sorry for him, until I found out what was really going on.

      • Yes, the hystrionics and crying are all manipulations. That is to keep you feeling kindly toward them so you will not advocate for yourself in your legal battle with them, and so you won’t say “bad” things about them to friends and family.

      • I totally agree, SeeTheLight. The cheater in my case can’t look at my at all; he knows I know and can’t tolerate it.

      • I totally agree, SeeTheLight. The cheater in my case can’t look at me at all; he knows I know and can’t tolerate it.

    • I always wondered that. We had a couple of reconcillations only the last time, he went to the gym and never returned.

      And on tv all those cheaters are begging to stay and the ow or om tries to beat the true spouse up.

      I never got anyone begging me.

      • My ex certainly never threw histrionics or begged me to take him back. In fact, when we DID reconcile, he simply said he had watched some Christian movie about cheating (I think it was called Fire Proof, or something like that) and he decided he should give the marriage another chance because he didn’t want to be a cheater. Nothing about loving me, nothing about wanting to be with me, no remorse and no apology.

        Of course, it turned out the REAL reason for reconciling was to get $$$$ out of me. And he was still cheating, of course.

    • Sandy R –
      I think my XH absolutely cared about his cake supply & his image. I do not think he was even humanely capable of “caring” about anyone other than himself, and not in the same way that we Chumps would care for someone.
      Also, I was extremely USEFUL to him: well-educated, stable job, his family loved me, happy life, good social circle, etc. If he could no longer rely on me for cake and spackle, that would suck for him AND he’d have to find a replacement source. It takes time and effort to cultivate another steady supply, which takes WORK…. and little entitled Narcs hate hate HATE having to work for anything. They’re just so wonderful already! It is their birthright to have endless helpings of cake and spackle!

      So, now my XH is having to settle and he’s. not. happy. (poor sausage!) He’s still with the dingbat-OW, because his practice is struggling financially and she’s paying their rent. His only friends now are OW’s friends – because that’s his only source of cake and spackle. My former in-laws have not approved of their son’s infidelity, they refuse to welcome OW into their house, refuse to provide him w/ the financial support he was used to – so rather than make any EFFORT (there’s that pesky word again!) to make amends with his own family, he barely speaks to them now. He has very deliberately abandoned his family and the friends he’s had since childhood – because he doesn’t look good without spackle, and they’re not providing cake. When it’s too hard and takes too much effort to do the right thing (ack! there’s that ice pick in my head!), some of them would rather just go into hiding or find a new town & start over with a fresh set of Chumps.

      So whether they fly off the handle with a bat-shit-crazy display because they’re scared shitless of losing their cake supply, or they scurry away and hide because their sense of entitlement renders them unwilling to make any effort – still dog turds. 6 of one / half a dozen of the other.

    • I don’t think either of them care. I think the cold ones are a bit brighter and realize the gig is up. I think the theatrical ones are a bit stupider, or think their chump is stupider, and up the ante on the manipulation.

      I’m not a shrink, but my guess is the cold ones are more sociopathic and the drama llamas are more narcissistic/borderline types. They dig the kibbles hysteria brings. The sociopaths are just cooly moving on to the next sucker.

      • CL..you hit the nail on the head! When I read your reply, I looked up “sociopath characteristics”. My STBX is the poster boy for a sociopath! The complete lack of empathy for those they hurt; the lying and deception; the aggressiveness; infidelity; on and on and on. I see why my buttwipe didn’t give me the drama like the posters here today. He had moved on to his next sucker, as you say. I applaud all of you here today that have these amazing stories to tell. The way you handled suicide threats, violent acts in some cases, extreme waterworks and so much more..I give each and every one of you props!!

      • “I’m not a shrink, but my guess is the cold ones are more sociopathic and the drama llamas are more narcissistic/borderline types. They dig the kibbles hysteria brings. The sociopaths are just cooly moving on to the next sucker.”

        CL just hit it on the head. THIS.

        • Yeesh. Asshat had zero drama, just the creepy stare-off. He still does this. When he tries this on me now I just maintain the stare and wipe all thoughts from my head. It’s as if he’s reading me through my eyes or minute facial expressions.

          Even his therapist asked him why he can’t express remorse via emotions. Weird and creepy.

      • Thanks for pointing that out, ChumpLady!

        My STBX is more on the sociopathic side and my mom’s ex is definitely a narcissist.

    • No, Sandy R, the tantrum throwers, the cryers, the pillow munchers and the sleeping bag hoppers do NOT care about their chump any more than do the cheaters who walk out the door without a second glance. The techniques are different, but the disorder is exactly the same. It is all about THEM, other people are merely props in the movie about themselves that endlessly films inside their heads and they do not see anyone, even their own spouse and children, as any different from the toaster or refrigerator. Just useful appliances, until the cheater doesn’t need them anymore. Some cheaters want to keep gobbling down cake for a while longer, while the abandoners have set up enough cake supply that they can walk on immediately, but neither of these disordered types GIVES A FUCK.

      • I think you are correct, my ex expected to keep me and the OW. He manipulated me because OW could not take care of him, he was determined to keep both of us. He was convinced he could do that. If the OW had been higher income and hotter he would have left.

      • So true….whatever their disorder, in the end they lack empathy and only see people as an extension of themselves.

        For all I was to my throw pillow muncher, I might as well have been a throw pillow all along.

        I look back and see her hysterical living room gymnastics as she attempted to swallow a throw pillow, that this was to her, not losing a husband, but losing an arm or leg, coffee table or cell phone. This was a me…me…me tantrum.

    • I think they mourn the image they had with you and the conveniences you provided them. I can’t really imagine an NPD-type of person NOT mourning free cooking, housecleaning, income, and impression management/spackling from a spouse.

      FWIW, I’ve never been married, but dating guys who do really awful/selfish stuff then cry when I want to leave seems to illustrate (to me) that they saw me as extensions of themselves and liked what I offered them, but not ME.

      It sounds jaded. But, these stories make it seem like Jekyll/Hyde people who hurt/get upset are either:

      1) so emotionally damaged/indoctrinated by abusive attitudes that they may have had capacity to love before their traumas”education,” and need intense psychotherapy and/or meds to realize the error of their ways. Think Lundy Bancroft. I think the majority fall into this category.

      2) have a chemical imbalance/tumor growing/some other condition that inhibits regions of the brain that encourage empathy

      3) are sociopathic or have such tendencies, but have somehow been influenced or are naturally prone to relational/physical aggression.

      Just some theories 🙂

    • No. (Not me). I think the ones who go for theatrics feel even worse for themselves. If they felt bad about their partners (i.e, had empathy) they would focus their actions on an attempt to either comfort, compensate, apologize or listen to the honest partner.

      All the theatrics? It’s all about *them.*

    • You know, Hon….Please Stop GIVING A SHIT about how THEY Feel.
      It’s not helping YOU Heal, Sandy.
      You’re trying to Untangle the Skein..or Place a Heart where, Odds Are, They Don’t Exist.. or Odds Are will Never Beat Properly. I played that Maddening Quest for Understanding with MY EX…. I Shouldn’t Have.
      After all he Did it Doesn’t MATTER, I Told him If THAT is LOVE To Him, He can KEEP his LOVE, I Don’t Fucking Want it.

    • I just had a vision of suicide throw pillows and apocalypse sleeping bags on sale at the “Busted” outlet nearest you. They could offer specials according to theme, matching bag and pillow. The Suede Seductress, Betsy Johnson’s Tiger Temptress in a trendy pink and black striped velvet. The Gourmet Alcoholic shaped in the brand of cheater choice and Plushy Porn… in a variety of prints. Accessory toss pillows with drinking straw ruching, precision credit card detail and a timeless razor trim are included with the Cocaine Classic–white, but treated with splotches of Elmer’s Glue and finished with a fine crystal dust cover. A variety of maladies can be special ordered but the Retching Post, Tawdry Turd and Adam and Eve Ambulance with detachable oxygen mask are always in stock.

  • I found out about my ex’s affairs on the same day and then confronted him. He was behaving so strangely (even for him) that I called the cops. He had been drinking too much again that night ,went into the basement and held the door locked so that I couldn’t get downstairs. I could hear him breathing on the other side of the door , then talking to himself. When the police arrived they questioned him and then asked him to leave. He went to stay in a hotel and I made sure to lock all of the doors. His current ow can have him and all of the craziness that goes along with him.

  • Him: “I bet everyone is telling you you are better off without me.”
    Me: “Yes, they are.”
    Him: “Well, what do YOU think?”
    Me: “Before July 29th I would have said they were crazy. After July 29th (D-Day) — absolutely.”
    He was sitting on the porch steps, and he held his head in his hands, look dejected.

    Seriously, what do they fucking expect???????

    • After cheating on me with one, and later I found out another, OW, he seriously expected me to say that I was NOT “better off without him?” Did he seriously think that I should want to stay with him?

        • Yes, I am. He even called me “a heartless bitch” because a mere two months after D-Day, I still hadn’t sold our house and “given him his money.”

  • The night I found out I left and stayed at a hotel (after throwing his crackberry at his head and waking him up from a sound sleep-yeah that was a little fun).

    I came back home the next morning because he was supposed to be going in early to work but he was still there so I left, went for a walk in the woods and hoped I would run into the bear that was rumored to live there so it would mercifully end my life.

    Later when he came home; I sat down and said, “How are we going to do this?” Should we put the house up for sale? That’s when he started crying like I’ve never seen him cry before but the first words out of his mouth were “You did it too”. I looked at him like he had 6 heads because I never cheated on him. What he was referring to was the relationship I had with a married man who was separated from his wife at the time and they ultimately divorced. The best part? This happened when I was 18 years old; a mere 26 years prior. And of course you are never smarter than you are when you’re 18!

    Anyway, I asked him how that was relevant to what was happening right now and he told me that I shouldn’t judge him?? WTF?? I wasn’t judging, I was dying. Then he continued to cry, tell me all the reasons I drove him to have an affair and then he cried some more and told me while sobbing that he was probably going to die alone.

    His theatrics, while nowhere near the sleepingbag donning, bunny hopping turd at the beginning of this post, were good enough to get me to stick around for 3 more years. Forehead smack!

    • ” When the Devil Reminds You of your PAST, Remind Him of his FUTURE ” ** ahem..Without You **

  • When I confronted my xW, she lied and then ended her conversation telling me that her relationship with the OM had no impact on our marriage. This coming from a licensed marriage and family therapist working with couples dealing with infidelity, etc! Plus, she ended the conversation telling me that she was being faithful to God with a straight face.

    Fast-forward three months after that confrontation and after much gas-lighting from her, she finally cops to lying and sleeping with this particular OM. Plus, she drops the bombshell that he wasn’t the only OM as she had done sexual things with GUYS from bars. (Who knows how many or for how long. She didn’t volunteer that information, of course.) She closed that humdinger conversation reassuring me that she wasn’t divorcing me because of all her whoring around. Really?! Whew, what a relief to know that. Ha!

    So glad that relationship is over. My life is so much better free of that crazy train!

    • “She closed that humdinger conversation reassuring me that she wasn’t divorcing me because of all her whoring around”

      How magnanimous of her. I can almost see a thought bubble appear above the image of her I have in my head right now that reads, “You may still be useful. You should be happy about that”.

    • Bringing God into it! When I asked how my ex could reconcile faith with adultery, I got told “It just happened, I guess God wanted me to love two people.”

      • My ex kept saying that he “needed a family he could take to church,” which was why he was taking up with a married, Christian woman (I’m Jewish, ex is Christian.) I guess he missed the parts of the bible where God expressed extreme displeasure with adultery.

        Although actually, during the hellacious five months we still lived in the same house after Dday, I frequently found ex’s bible laying open on the kitchen table. It often was open to sections of the bible specifically talking about adultery, oddly enough. I got annoyed one day and flipped it over to Proverbs, where it says a good wife is worth more than rubies. That was the last time ex left his bible laying around.

  • I swear to God – when my hasband was sitting down for our family meeting about his just-discovered-to-me horsefaced-whore…He had the EXACT same reaction as Deanfkgdildo with the sudden migraine. His face turned all red and he held his head and said, ‘I feel like a little trapped animal inside a cage’.
    Oh? Poor poor hypotenuse of the triangle. Wife, Whore and Him – have him all trapped. I wish I did have an icepick that moment to hand him.

  • Glad to read that many chumps can now laugh about the antics. I had some things happen too that stunned/enraged me then, but make me laugh till tears now. Doucheface went full on stalker after I refused to take him back after leaving me for the 4th (or was it 5th?) time. I got several texts with the craziest things, the best one was ‘You should close your window, it’s starting to rain’. Another awesome one was ‘Since when have you become a lesbian?!’, he hacked into my Facebook, read through my messages and assumed I was gay because I sent ‘Hi hunni’ to a female friend.
    Several nights I’d turn off my phone (which only enraged him, because turning off my phone surely meant that I was fucking someone), otherwise I’d be woken up between 3 and 5 by messages and calls from him. When contacting me through my phone didn’t work he’d ring the doorbell and stand outside crying, with big puppy eyes, just staring at my window. If I didn’t respond he’d just keep ringing until it woke my son or the neighbours. Anything to make me acknowledge him being there.
    On the rare occasions I’d let him into my home he’d come on to me, saying that he wanted to make me feel good and that that was the only thing that mattered to him. When I said that I didn’t want him touching me he’d throw a fit, accuse me of cheating (which isn’t possible if you’re single) and would post all over facebook that I was a cold, heartless bitch that would fuck anyone but him, just to hurt him and bring him down, to make him look bad by cheating on him but that I would never succeed in doing that… Yeah, I know, WTFH right?
    He also stole (STOLE) prescribted meds because he couldn’t sleep and needed the sleeping pills I took. Doucheface took the whole box, leaving me with none and no way to get more since the doctors here aren’t too keen on handing out sleeping pills. Best part of it was that I took those darned pills because of him and the abuse he’d been putting me through.
    He made his mother phone me to take him back, but then got angry at me for ‘making his mother cry with the “truth”‘. I revieved death threaths because of that, and because of many other things, like replying ‘Why should I close my windows? I want to keep them open during the rain.’ And for saying that it would be better for my son if I didn’t take doucheface back.

    Yeah, he was such a lovely, amazing, kind hearted, irrisistable, succesful, loving, non-abusive person. It’s hard to understand why I ever gave him up, why I didn’t fight for him.. After all, it was all my fault. I don’t remember what, nor do I want to think about it, but I do remember that it was ALL MY FAULT. Oh, and that I am a horrible mother for breaking up an abusive home. Because seeing mommy cry and hearing mommy cry ‘no’ every night because spermdonor is a selfish doucheface is so much better than having a happy mommy and no spermdonor around..

    Needless to say, we (my boy and I) are very happy now and both have healed a lot. We’re still working on things, but we are okay. And that pisses doucheface off so much that it’s actually being considered as karma.

  • The only time XH showed any emotion or histrionics was about 15 months after Dday when we were supposed to be reconciling and I discovered that he’d just taken the affair underground.

    He’d walked back to work after dinner to finish a project, and I put the kids to bed and spent the evening watching TV. Around 10:45 pm, I realized I needed some groceries to make lunches the next morning, so I zipped to the store before they closed at 11 pm. On the way home, I stopped by XH’s lab to see if I could drive him home and low and behold, OW’s car was parked by the back dock.

    I parked in the adjacent parking lot, hid behind the dumpster near the back door, and texted XH to come home. He and OW emerge a few minutes later, laughing and flirting. He holds her car door open, then circles around and gets in the passenger seat. They leave. I hop in my car and follow them at a distance.

    But instead of going to my house, they circle around on the street behind and park on the side street a house away. After about 10 minutes, XH gets out and walks home. OW drives off.

    I’m SO mad, I need a few minutes to calm down. I decide to play it cool and not let on that I know what’s going on while I try to figure out what to do. I drive home and park in the driveway. XH, frantic, meets me at the back door.

    “Where have you been?” he demanded. “You left the kids alone!”

    “I had to run to the grocery store before they closed. That’s why I texted you to come home.”

    His motions are jerky, uncontrolled. He repeatedly rubs his upper lip. “Did…did you go anywhere else?” he asked.

    “Like where?”

    “Like…the lab?”

    “No,” I managed. “Should I have?”

    “No. No! I was just wondering. When you weren’t home, I – I just couldn’t imagine where you were.” He shifts back and forth and rubs his upper lip again. I realize he’s sweating. Profusely. (Cake was in serious jeopardy that night)

    I watched OW drop him off every night on that side street for the next 6 months. That’s how long I had to watch him lie to me repeatedly to get it through my thick skull that yes, he was, indeed, a disrespectful douche bag when he thought I wasn’t looking. On nights he “worked” late, he’d always come home and put his hand on the hood of my car. When I asked him why after the divorce, he said it was because he was checking to see if it was hot, to see if I had been out, spying on him.

    I just snickered. After that night, I never needed to leave the house to know what he was up to…

      • I was sorely tempted. But I later used pictures I took from that side street to prove to him I knew what was going on, that the gig was up. He was furious I’d been spying on him, that I wasn’t the dumb idiot he thought I was…

  • You all have firmed up in my mind that my ex is more sociopath and less narcissist. XH threatened my life. He told me he would hold my essential health insurance hostage if I divorced him for living with another woman, which could have killed me, literally. Best thing I did was get right to a recommended attorney who took care of that pronto with her courthouse magic. I paid but it was worth it. I had insurance until he quit/lost his job. This is the man who didn’t understand why it was not acceptable to tell an employee he supervised that he wanted to shoot him. I am so glad I’m free of that man. And I’m really so grateful that the court mediator and the judge (she’s a fuckin’ goddess in my eyes) saw right through him. And that my attorney understood PD StbXs. If I wrote it all down, all 35 years with him, there are some people who wouldn’t believe the sordid tales. I’m a little nervous that he’s been trying to contact me again but I’m still NC. And most of my kids have my back.

  • Ok, so how many of you recall your cheater learning therapy lingo and using it to fuck with you? My ex’s fav was “I don’t feel safe, I have to go” – I think you all know where he had to go, lol. If you did MC you know what that whole “safe” shit is supposed to be about…

    • He’s doing this. “Working/focusing on his process” and needs affirmation (kibbles) from me. Like patting the head of a dog. I refused. He became upset and decided to focus on himself and not the R he feels entitled to.

      Every week it’s interesting watching him dig himself into a hole. At one point last week the MC guy told him to quit talking because Asshat was fucking himself over with his
      own psycho babble.

  • My STBX had many dramatic speeches, emails, texts and constant mood swings. This after MULTIPLE affairs over 6 years, some of which included his denial of even being married. Currently he is in angry mode (our date to file is fast approaching and he is “so mad” at me for “giving up on us”). While this isn’t a sleeping bad type amazing story, I think it perfectly captures the NPD/sociopath qualities all of our cheaters share. And I quote:

    “You don’t understand the guilt or the feeling of hopelessness and anxiety all of this caused me. To wake up each morning in fear of losing you and the need to control information so that doesn’t happen. To try and make amends with those you’ve emotionally damaged so you can let go of the guilt that’s constantly gnawing at you. I was constantly juggling trying to keep you and my own sanity in check. I was overwhelmed. I know you don’t understand…. The most difficult part is that I couldn’t talk to you. I was always scared that you’d leave me if I talked or that you’d shut off like you’d done in the past and leave me to my own devices again. You don’t want to see this any other way and demonize me. I understand that I hurt you and you have every right to never want to see me again, but this story was more complex…”

    It’s ALWAYS VERY complex isn’t it? *puke* And I love how he subtlety slides the blame-shifting in there—how dare I “leave him to his own devices.” Siiiigh.

    • His own devices! Wth. What a weird mindfuck from an ADULT.

      I used to stress out leaving my twins alone for five minutes for fear of leaving them to their own devices. I came home once to find one locked in the dog kennel because the other said he was being naughty.

      • LOL, ANC! I know, right? I got this argument ALL the time: my guilt made me do it (i.e., his “guilt” made him fuck the OW because he told her we were separated so she would fall in love with him–and oh, surprise–she did. So what else was he supposed to do??). And my confused/obvious response was always: then why do anything to feel guilty about and have to hide in the first place? His response: it’s much more complex than that. Apparently I, a mere mortal, cannot possibly understand the complexities of how a grown man doesn’t have the choice of whether or not he seduces other women, convinces them he wants to have a future with them, and then has to deal with the “guilt” of revealing to them it was all a game because in reality, he is married and has NO intention of leaving his CAKE! And then of course there’s the “guilt” that comes after being found out by his wife (moi). Man, this guy have it ROUGH… 😉

  • I’ve got one. With tears in his eyes he grasped my hands and sez

    “I thought I could come up out that basement and be a happy person, turn my life around, but I couldn’t. It hurts so much that I’m still stuck. But what I did helped you! Look at you, you lost weight and got new clothes, you look great & you go out more, at least what I did helped you!” and he smiled at me through his bullshit tears.

    My response? I am not sleeping or eating so yeah I had to buy clothes that don’t fall off my body, are you really trying to convince me your cheating on me helped me?

    Ex: she’s just a friend helping me work on fixing the problems we’re having. And you are doing better!

    Me: let go of my hands

    Ex: see, you have anger management issues

    • haha I’m so sorry but that is so funny. I’m also on the divorce diet. It’s a combo of no money to eat/so sad you can’t eat. My X blames me for everything also. Recently he showed me a note I had put in his home-cooked hand-packed lunch when I was pregnant. It was a picture of a stick-figure who was pregnant and had a stick figure baby inside her belly. The note said “Dear ___ I am pregnant I need kisses.” Cute right? I thought it was funny. He saved it I guess and he whipped it out recently and said “See? You were so needy and clingy. You were always hysterical.” They blame everything on us. Everything.

    • Yep, I got the “You should be grateful I’m doing you a favor and ending our marriage so now you can pursue the career you always wanted” kind of declarations too.

      • I was told that I was ‘obviously so happy’ after I kicked him out because I was able to have free time when he ‘babysitting’ the kids for a few hours (at my place). And no, I was not happy, I was drunk.

        • It’s OK, it is funny now. In fact, that last was his favorite thing after he learned therapy talk. He was constantly trying to get me angry so he could pull the “you have anger management issues” card. At the point this conversation took place, NOTHING he said could piss me off, I would just walk away. so when I told him to let go of my hands he used it anyway.

          • I got this – quote: “Please know I am very sorry for what has happened, and have been praying every night for your anger to go away.

            Not for me, but for you. As I know I said earlier, anger will eat you up from the inside out. I in no way want that for you.”

            Hey LoverBoy, ain’t gonna happen under my watch. My Spousal Support will eat YOU from the inside out. I so WANT that to happen to YOU. Even praying for you to get over that anger of monthly checks. . . someday! Praise God.

  • Lied, dismissed and ignored me for months. When I found the evidence of his affair and their plans for him to exit our marriage just as soon as his mother died and he would come into money, I confronted him. Coward just sat there with his mouth tensed and eyes wide. Finally, he vomited, “These have been the worst 18 years of my life.”

    He told the same thing to our kids. Such a sensitive dad, huh? No thought that they were CREATED during those 18 years and would immediately make the leap that they were the worst thing in his life. And yes, they went there, as kids do.

  • Recently, my X has taken to showing up on weekends he doesn’t have visitation and asking to see the baby. This last weekend he showed up and we were already at IHOP enjoying pancakes and the early bird special. He texted me to say he was waiting outside, but he didn’t know I wasn’t home. I took the baby to the park afterwards so I didn’t have to go home to find him waiting there outside. On the way home 2 hours later I stopped by the police station to ask them to follow me home to make sure we would be ok and they told me HE had called THEM! He called them, said he wanted to see his baby, and then broke down crying in the parking lot. He showed them the visitation orders and they were like- yeah, ok, she’s not in any trouble. She hasn’t violated anything. So he left. I was so amazed. I explained to the lady cop (who incidentally had the most splendid eye makeup on I’ve ever seen) that he left me and he doesn’t even pay child support so I’m amazed he’s playing this game pretending to care. She told me he cried in front of her and I felt so, so awful, because of course I would find it torture to be separated from my baby. The policewoman and I called him on my cell phone and she asked him if he would like to come back because I’d offered to let him spend a couple hours with little buddy before he had his nap. Guess what he said???? “Uh, no, I’m already about 15 minutes away.” So, let’s look at this in order. 1) shows up before 8am and demands to see the baby. Luckily we are happily eating pancakes at IHOP. 2) Calls the police. 3) Shows the police the custody papers and they confirm that he does not have visitation. 4) Breaks down crying and leaves. 5) I feel so guilty that he cried I let the policewoman call him and offer him a couple extra hours. 6) He says IM ALREADY 15 MINUTES AWAY and declines. What. The. F. Word.

    • Oh Rose, same here! Doucheface would scream that he hated my son, that I only got pregnant to mess up his life and that he wanted nothing to do with us. Fast forward to after the break up, he’s ringing my doorbell at the most absurd times demanding to see my son. Whenever I’m out already and don’t obey immediately by going back I’d get the worst texts saying that I am a horrible mother, that he’d take my son away from me and will never allow me to see him, etc., etc. He’d also phone the cops on me, crying that I was keeping him away from ‘his’ son (all of a sudden, after me refusing to take him back again, the child he never wanted an hated was ‘his’ son), the cops never fell for it because I would always text him that he could see the baby whenever we made an appointment and that I wasn’t going to change all my plans because he decided that he would come round in the 10 minutes he had to spare. One cop actually told doucheface to stop being so pathetic and to grow the F up..
      Right now we have been NC since June 2012, but he hasn’t seen my boy since Dec. 2011, simply because he couldn’t be bothered coming round whenever we made an appointment for it he couldn’t even be bothered to send me a text to cancel. It’s all about control Rose, doucheface was using my son (my weakest spot) as a means to an end, to keep controlling me, hurting me and my boy in the progress. I hope that will not happen to you and your child. You just keep holding on to those visitation papers and don’t stray from the appointments made on paper. As soon as you do that, as soon as you feel sorry and let him come over, he can start using your child as a pawn to get you to do what he wants. You’ve gotten rid of the man, please don’t let him use your child to slip his way back in to the centre of your life again.
      I am sorry if my message was a bit hard to understand, English is not my native language. All the best to you and your little one Rose.

  • I don’t know if this is along the same lines, but my STBX told me he would rather “eat sand, drink a bottle of vodka, and walk into the ocean to die” than not be with “her” (we had just moved to CA for his job at the time when I found about about the OW so we were by the ocean). Though it all still stings and squeezes my heart when I think about it; remembering him saying that makes me giggle because it is so freakin’ dumb!

    Love you CL, you have really kept me afloat!

    Forever grateful,

    Lola11

    • Weird. Would he be eating sand to weigh him down in this scenario, or is he eating it because there is so much sand available at the beach?

  • My XH love bombed a sweet woman within a couple weeks (eventually married the poor thing) of moving out. He moved into her home within a month afterwards (Labor day weekend) and that was the impetus for me to file for divorce.

    He snarled about my filing – telling me, “I guess being together 17 years meant nothing at all to you.” The almost in the next breath, “Well this is certainly going to screw up the holidays. Can we still visit your parents at Christmas…” WTF?

    • Marcie, WTF is right

      He didn’t think that far ahead, how cheating and a divorce might change his life

    • ** Holding back a Laugh**
      I’m sorry, Marcie but Your EX is an I D I O T.
      The 2nd Paragraph after reading the First… Oh Lord….. LOL.

  • I’ll repeat mine from the last CL posting topic:

    One night, during what I didn’t know was False reconciliation, she stopped by (with her kids) announce that they were still seeing each other. I told bim to choose now, he chose her. So I pulled his clothes out of the closet, loaded them into her car and told him to GTF out. Then then commenced the wailing, flailing and crying. Seeing her darling Twu Wuv go through that breakdown over “crap, my wife doesn’t want me anymore”, she got sick. So he’s locked himself in the bedroom, still wailing, flailing and crying. She’s puking her guts out in my bathroom. Where am I? I’m making sure her kids are occupied with a Spongebob Squarepants marathon and snacks so they don’t have to see any of the crazy going on.

    Yep.

    And add in that he was also extremely worried about possibly having skin cancer on his face.. which was brought up in the middle of the previously mentioned wailing and flailing. I should be SOOO worried about his health. I must say .. I think I was in shock for a while and didn’t care much about what happened to him at that point.

    A few weeks later, when he was picking up the last of his stuff (what he told OW) but he was really trying to get stuff *ahem*, I called OW to come get him. She came to get him and the 3 of us had a huge fight.. over him telling her that we had been separated for MONTHS.. and as we had been living as married until the day I tossed him out.. he’d lied to her. I’ll gloss over some of the details.. but he threatened suicide over MySpace because his girlfriend and his wife had gone to the bar to get laid. (I went to get drunk.. I ignored whatever she was doing with those guys in the corner) He had broken into my house and used my computer to post it. I had to go home and call the ambulance and his brothers to come get him. Which lead to a merry chase around town.. he ran as soon as we called the ambulance. Caught up to him around 5AM.

    Turns out, he never took the pills, it was for dramatics. That’s why he ran from the ambulance. His brothers blamed ME for the whole episode.. because I wouldn’t let him spend time with his children. .. wait.. what children? ExH had told everyone that her 2 kids were HIS and that I was being a giant bitch by getting upset and forbidding him to see them. They thought I was keeping him from seeing his kids… had no idea she was actually his mistress and lying about the kids parentage gave him an excuse to bang her. OW actually stepped up and told his brothers that her kids were NOT his and that it was a pretty crappy that he couldn’t be honest about being in love with her.. that he’d use that excuse to see her.

    .. and writing all this makes me tired. I’m almost to the “meh” stage now. Haven’t thought about all the extreme crap in so long..

    • I would not have been able to let an ow in my home to puke. And you did a spongebob marathon and fed her kids? You have nerves of steel.

      • I agree with Tess. You were AWESOME with OW’s kids, FeralBlue – clearly the ONLY adult who cared about them that night. They’re going to have onerous therapy bills in a few years…

        • It was pretty fucked up. I have no idea how I stayed so calm about it, except maybe I was in shock. Her kids were 3 and 5 years old, clearly didn’t understand what was going on and were starting to panic seeing their mom acting like that. I fervently hope that neither of them remember that night at all.

    • O H M Y G A W D.

      and I Thought MY Encounter with 2nd Babymama was BAD…

      JJEEEEZZZZUUUSSSS !!!!!!!!!!! FERAL…… YOU Are Amazing….

      and your EX and his…….. There are NO WORDS to COVER What SHE is…. ARE A SERIOUS Fucking HOT MESS with a Side of VOMIT INDUCING, NO CLASS, DRAMA SEEPED, Like JERRY SPRINGER WOULD BLUSH , INSANITY BREEDING T R A S H.

      FERAL..HATS OFF TO YOU…. ALL MY SYMPATHY and RESPECT !!!

      • You know…after hearing this….I Wonder Honestly if Your EX IS My Ex…

        It Seriously Sounds like Something HE WOULD Do..Along with The TYPES of Women he Deals with.

  • I just remembered two, I have worked hard to try to burn them all out of my head.

    Ok, we had two cuckoo clocks as we got one years ago, and I got one for my dad only he passed away so it is here. And we had just moved into the house before he left (what a guy, in fact boxes up to the ceiling, not even unpacked) and this happened several times, not just once. These clocks kept going off all the time and since I wasn’t sleeping well and had put them on a wall that would make the sound very loud in the bedroom I got to where I would stop them. So, several times he came over, and would stand on a chair and turn them on again, and stay a bit and see how the time was going on them, and he would continually ask me who was turning the clocks off. I would just look at him and not say anything, because hello dumb ass who do you think I am the only one here. This went on several months, he finally stopped showing up as much.

    The other thing was, during this time, once when leaving I was trying to talk to him before he bolted out of the house and he said ‘don’t make this any harder than it needs to be’ which that really made me mad, I told him look I am not the ow don’t go and try to make me feel like I don’t belong in my own marriage.

  • After discovering several unseemly photographs stored on an on-line site, he looked me square in the face and asked me to “delete them” for him. Huh?
    When I explained what was about to go down (relationship over) he “fake passed out”. Since that’s a playbook move, I stepped over his body and got a drink of water. He miraculously regained conciousness and said he had a headache. Really? Because I heard two thuds, not one – which indicates a “fake faint”.
    Finally, when he was thrown out with all his belongings and knew that the jig was up – he got Baptized AGAIN – apparently the first time “didn’t take”. He showed up at my door and told me that he was a “new man” and that god had filled him with the holy spirit and this sort of thing would NEVER happen again if I would just give him one more chance.
    Yeah, he was filled with *something* alright.

  • My husband invented a whole new pathology to do with how good I am at using rhetoric (being remarkably articulate whilst inspiring emotion in the listener – ie him – ie feeling shit about what he had done to me). This fiendish and thoroughly unfair ability was an attempt by me to control what he felt and thought. To halt this pathology, he started to correct me whenever I said anything ‘wrong’ – thus attempting to control what I.. yep, you get it.

    Suddenly, overnight, I was demonically intelligent and had power over his powers of reason. It was causing him distress. I expected the Witchfinder General to jump out of a hedge with a flaming torch.

    Curiously, he now can’t remember saying any of this. My ‘rhetoric’ pathology has not entered the lexicon.