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Soul Blazing and Navel Gazing

I’m coming to this late, but several chumps sent me the execrable article by Lisa Haisha “Soul Blazer” that ran last week on Huffington Post entitled “Is It Time to Change Our Ideas of Adultery and Marriage?”

Guess what! Lisa does think it’s a good time to rethink our ideas about marriage and cheating.

…When you consider the historical context of marriage, isn’t being shocked by adultery a bit of an overreaction?

To those of you paternity checking your children, or who put your feet up in the stirrups for an STD test, or found your 401K spent on hookers — hey, put it in a historical context. Henry VIII had six wives (and a few beheadings) and he wasn’t a fan of marriage and monogamy either. This is bigger than us. Please explain to your heartbroken 9-year-old when she asks why she has to spend Christmas in four places that hey, we are all just victims of an outdated modality. I’m sure she’ll understand.

Adultery isn’t shocking, until the day it happens to you and suddenly it ceases to be an interesting theoretical construct. I would argue the only people who are not shocked by infidelity when it happens to them are people who aren’t that deep to begin with. In other words, Lisa Haisha’s clientele — Hollywood “suits.” (Yes, this is on her website.) Superficial people, people who don’t love with their whole hearts because they had their hearts surgically replaced years ago with some botox-ed, gluten-free, heart-like substance. Savvy media creatures who don’t get chumped, they just rebrand.

Yeah, I’m sure those people aren’t hurt by infidelity one bit.

Before you think Lisa heartless herself, she has a disclaimer that, well, cheating and lying are rather a bummer and uncool.

Of course, no one can deny that when you lie and do something behind another person’s back, you are doing something wrong. You’re breaking an agreement, and that lacks integrity. You’re breaking trust with the other person, which is most definitely hurtful. But in the course of a long term relationship, taking into account the practical realities of our human need to experience life on our own, or through experiences with other platonic or romantic relationships, perhaps a new kind of conversation can unfold with your spouse or partner where you jointly communicate your needs and set reasonable and practical parameters of what is and isn’t allowed in your marriage, so the negative and hidden behaviors associated with adultery don’t take place.

In other words, it’s okay to break someone’s trust because …. blather.

I’ve spent over 20 years as an editor and editors have this no no we call “smothering your verbs.” Lisa has positively pickled hers. Consider this epic run on sentence and tell me if you can figure out WTF she means.

But in the course of a long term relationship, taking into account the practical realities of our human need to experience life on our own, or through experiences with other platonic or romantic relationships, perhaps a new kind of conversation can unfold with your spouse or partner where you jointly communicate your needs and set reasonable and practical parameters of what is and isn’t allowed in your marriage, so the negative and hidden behaviors associated with adultery don’t take place.

I think she’s trying to say it’s okay to cheat and lie if you have a “need to experience life.” (Uh, who doesn’t? The alternative to experiencing life is experiencing death). She gets a little vague about these experiences, except to say they might be platonic! or romantic! But hey, be cool and have a conversation first.

Well, Lisa, I agree with you. People should have honest conversations about the kind of open relationships they want. And here’s an interesting trend over a couple millennia — people don’t do that! Nope, they’ve been partnering up for centuries with all sort of rules and shit. Back in Henry VIII’s day you couldn’t get a divorce unless you created your own church, or orchestrated a beheading. It’s those simpler times I’m sure you long for, Lisa. But Henry VIII had a straightforward conversation — give me a male heir or you’re dead — and fat lot of good it did him.

I don’t know what mythical planet you live on where wives once had multiple husbands — is there any known case of this? But I’ll admit, polygamy has worked pretty well for the patriarchy.

But Lisa, you’re a complete fuckwit if you think people cheat because they don’t have conversations.

I always tell my clients to create a vision plan of what they want their marriage to look like and what they’d both be okay with.

Ask Chump Nation how that’s working for us. Lovely theory, Lisa, But we all thought we had that conversation about what we were okay with — those were our marriage vows. Then we discovered — holy shit! we were the only one playing by that set of rules. We had a conversation with a liar. Newsflash. Cheaters lie, Lisa.

Infidelity is about entitlement. The deceit IS the high. It’s gaining advantage over another person. All the kibbles for me! None for you! Cheaters aren’t having a conversation with you because they don’t want a level playing field. Once you realize that cheating isn’t about self actualization or WTFever it is you Californian life coaches are peddling, this shit is pretty easy to understand. They cheat because they want to. Because they have crap life skills. Because they’re entitled.

However, I really appreciate your vision that we should all be more like Japan.

In fact, I once asked several men why they regularly visited hostess clubs (night clubs that employ female staff to act like “rent-a-girlfriends” to men), and they all said similar sentiments: “My wife is cool with it. That’s our culture. She doesn’t love me either. She’s thrilled that I’m gone and I’m not bugging her for sex or company.”

Two people, who don’t love each other, who are thrilled when the other is gone, and who don’t want sex with one another. Yes, that certainly is rethinking this marriage thing, Lisa.

“Rent-a-girlfriend.” Why of course. Why did we not think of this? I guess we weren’t having enlightened conversations. Why stop there? Why don’t we replace every human relationship that requires commitment with a pay-by-the-hour substitute? Abolish the military! Hire mercenaries! Down with parenthood! Hire rent-a-nanny! Or better yet, just herd the all the small kids into giant feed lots and raise ’em like cattle. (Extra premium for the free-range ones.)

Here I have spent the better part of four years devoted to the care and feeding of a husband. To think I could’ve been “experiencing life on my own” and renting more entertaining company.

Oh hang on… I have experienced “life on my own” — it was called “being single.” I traded it for the love of a good man and a simple, middle-aged, drama-free, monogamous existence.

Works for me, Lisa. You ought to try it sometime.

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  • oh my gosh. So when my husband was out and about, trying to pick up women, and his answer to their “aren’t you married?” was ” oh, we have an open marriage. She doesn’t mind” – was he Japanese and I didn’t realize it? or how about, entitled cheaters are boring, one note liars all around the world. Yeah, I read that article and thought, are you fucking kidding me. Cake recipe. Blah blah blah.

    • So many good points from chump nation here!

      And I’m sure i wasn’t the only one who read about the Japanese men who “said they have open relationships” and thought, “yeah, riiiiiiiight. Do their WIVES know they have open relationships?”
      Puh-lease, cheaters are liars, you can’t believe anything they say. And by the way, if they really do have open relationships? Well then that’s not infidelity and so doesn’t belong in the article!!!

  • Hugs, Tess!

    Mr Fab is Pope, High Preist and Bishop of his own Church-that is how they roll. And Japaense guys saying it is part of the culture-CAKE-EATING BOLLOCKS.

    Maybe we DON’T need to make sense of it, and it is enough to know that. I think that is the biggest challenge us Chumps face-stepping away from the tangled skeinof fuckuppedness.

    What grinds my gears about this is that most of us probably thought we HAD an implicit agreement about what the deal breakers were, but these arseholes will say anything so long as the kibbles and cake flow.

    Also, if the emotional or psychological abuse were changed in this article to punches and slaps, you can bet it wouldn’t have been written……the author is a hopium merchant.



  • It’s all spoken from a safe distance, from afar…from someone who hasn’t experienced the cutting blade of adultery.

    I’m so sick of people somehow thinking that cheating is an enlightened, self-actualized endeavor. As if monogamy is prosaic; for uneducated peasants. News flash, Lisa – Adultery doesn’t work. It is destructive for society on an emotional, mental, familial, economic, and financial level. It’s not educated, it’s dumb, and mean, at that.

    • I remember getting a call on my cellphone from a woman at the car agency my husband and I bought our car at. She realized she had used the wrong number when I answered because he had been in there looking at cars on his own after we separated. She seemed really apologetic and I told her, “Look it’s ok. No harm done. I’ll give you his number.” She took it and asked how I was, I inferred from her tone that she knew we were separated. I said, “Fine. But reeling from the fact that my husband cheated on me.” I don’t know why that just erupted from my mouth as I hardly knew this woman and am not prone to over sharing with strangers, but what floored me was her reaction. It got silent for a few seconds and then she said, “Oh, I’m so sorry. I’ve been there. It’s the worst feeling.” And judging by her tone of voice she really meant it. It meant so much to me in that moment that someone who had been through it really knew the pain I was experiencing. Which is why I agree with you, the author probably has not “experienced the cutting blade of adultery.” Worse still, she may actually be an adulterer herself.

      • Yep, Moving Liquid. I agree. And what a kind thing for her to show to share her own experience with you.

      • Good points, Moving Liquid. When I was on the phone with my utility company 2 days ago, to beg them to NOT disconnect our electricity since the STBX hasn’t been holding up his promise to help me financially until the divorce is settled, I for some reason felt the need to tell her why. And I got the same response..Oh that’s happened it to me, and it’s hard and terrible, but you’ll get through it. Same thing when I contacted a company that my STBX has a debt to, and I always handled paying it every month. He had the same thing happened to him..but he actually walked in on his wife screwing the OM. He too said it was the worst thing he ever experienced but he made it through. I work in radio so I have a pretty vast knowledge and tastes in music. Back in the 90s there was an indie artist who had a few pop hits. He’s still a musician, but he never was able to break through and become a mainstream artist. (He actually sings without autotune, go figure). About a month ago, around my 3 month out period from DDay, I shot him an email, just to thank him for putting out music that actually means something. A few of his songs I’ve played over and over, as they are about relationships that fell apart. I told him what my H did, and that his music was helping me cope. About 10 minutes later, the phone here at work rang, and a male asked for me. I identified myself, and he said “Hey, this is such and such (I’m not sure I can give his name here, CL?) So of course, I repeatedly said “no way, no it isn’t”, sounding like I was about 12 getting a call from Nigel from One Direction. When I finally picked myself off from the floor, he said he just wanted to call me and let me know that he received my emails (wow..he really reads his fan mail? Again, go figure), and that he had just been in a similar situation. He said that he made it through, and that even though it doesn’t seem like it, I will make it through as well. He said it’s the hardest thing he’s ever experienced (this coming from a struggling musician!) and that even though it takes time, I will make it. He said one of the things he’s done is workout..he’s never been in better shape in his life, he says! (And he is a healthy guy to begin with..vegetarian, very earth-conscious). So my point, after writing a 500-page book here, is that it happens to SO many people. Not just us peasants, lol! His call is the one high point I’ve had since DDay in January. On days that I feel like I can’t get out of bed, I try to remind myself that there really are truly caring people in this world. In the nightmare I’m living in now, it’s pretty hard to remember that. The fact that he took the time out of his day? Wow. He said he was just taking a quick break in the recording studio, and happened to glance at his email. What’s weird? My email actually went to his SPAM box, but for some reason he clicked on it anyway! He actually made a point of logging onto my radio station website and listened to our stream before he called me. (I happened to be on the air at that time, so he actually listened to me). Oh and by the way? If we could somehow go back in time and confront Henry the psycho? I can only IMAGINE the ways that we chumps could take care of his fat ass!!

        • Wow, that’s a great story about the musician. I suppose if we try, we can look at this experience from the other side. To be grateful that we are not life destroyers. To find it connects us with other good people who are as horrified as we are about this unfathomable behavior. To realize what is important to us morally and to work towards that. To know that we didn’t sink to their level. Above all, that we had the strength to move forward with our lives.

        • It brought tears to my eyes to read these stories, Sandy. Thank you for sharing the encouragement.

  • “But in the course of a long term relationship…..”….blah…..zzzz….. what?
    Went to sleep half way through that sentence.
    Oh girly girl, there is no fair to the cheater mind. No open talks, no level playing field because that’s the point.
    To take (yes, take) advantage of the trust and desire to be fair.
    What was she selling anyway? A RIC book? Does she have an editor?

    • Exactly! They want that image of the great husband, father, and the “undercover” excitement–at the expense of someone else’s heart and health.


  • “. . . the practical realities of our human need to experience life on our own, or through experiences with other platonic or romantic relationships . . . ” Blah blah blah.

    Here’s the thing; if you want to have other romantic relationships, or want to experience life on your own, you don’t marry a person who you believes in monogamy and expects it from their partner. If you want to fuck other people, don’t get married. It’s pretty simple.

    My X didn’t cheat because he was unhappy, or after he had told me how miserable he was with me. He told me each day how much he loved me, looking into my eyes and holding my face every morning, and still was fucking people during the day. He did this because he felt entitled to, and he thought I’d never find out about it. He had no intention of going anywhere, because the cake was delicious.

    I would have welcomed the “conversation” where he said he wanted to bang other people in the afternoon, especially if we had this talk prior to our marriage. It would have saved me the lawyer fees and the heartache.

    Lisa Haisha – Please go fuck yourself.

    • Yes. THIS. THIS. I am ALL FOR whatever arrangement works between consenting adults, and I think that arrangement can evolve as the relationship does. But the conversation about “what are the rules of the relationship” happens BEFORE you go “experiencing.” Why is this so hard to understand?

    • “Here’s the thing; if you want to have other romantic relationships, or want to experience life on your own, you don’t marry a person who you believes in monogamy and expects it from their partner. If you want to fuck other people, don’t get married. It’s pretty simple.”

      A-MEN!!! This. So much this.

      • Maybe we can add it to the vows. To love honor & not FUCK other people ? Do you think the church will go for it ?

        • Minister, “Do you, Sara Jane, promise to love, honor, and not let another man stick his dick in you?”

          Yes, I think it would fit nicely in the ceremony.

        • I think that is the “forsaking all others”– but you’re right Michael, maybe our cheaters didn’t know what that meant.

          • I agree, forsaking is one of those SAT words, too many syllables for the cheater brain to process. We need to change the vows to, “you”, minister points at cheater,”swear that from now until you die”, more pointing,”you will not fuck others. Understand?”

  • Awesome, CL, Kara, and all the chumps here! Indeed, RK, “please go f yourself, Lisa Haisha.” Love ya’ll ChumpNation! Happy Mother’s Day weekend to the moms here. You deserve it!

  • I just found out that my childhood best friend (haven’t talked w/ her in 15+ yrs) has been arrested for having a sexual relationship with a 17-year-old boy from the high school where she worked. She is married, with 3 young children. She befriended the boy’s mother, seemingly to gain access to him. They reportedly had sex in her basement, his mother’s basement, and on local hiking trails. She is on record saying that they are “soul mates.” Now, why didn’t she first just dialog with her husband about her need for basement sex with a teenager? Her needs are rational and healthy, and should be accommodated within the marriage!

    I have felt a bit sick since learning this news. An extreme example, I realize, but it illustrates how maybe the unhealthy emotional/sexual desires of one partner might not be the bedrock upon which to build a marriage. She is obviously very sick mentally, and probably not NPD, but I think the example still applies.

    • I think the real question is why didn’t she go get some flipping therapy before having sex with a minor. It’s called statutory rape. It’s bad for the kid.

      She belongs in jail.

    • That’s also a good point. Why is the flighty and selfish “needs” of someone who can’t even bother to be genuine the standard for the marriage? Why can’t the standard be the honesty and trust of the chump? For what reason do we need to cater to the selfishness and why does it supersede the needs of the faithful?

      • The author seems to think that cheating is about just some healthy and fun sexual variety, but I don’t think that is the case most of the time. My XH had an insatiable need for external validation. It didn’t matter if it was a man, a woman, an educated and accomplished person, or someone milking the welfare system with a fake disability – he needed to court their admiration. The teenager story is just an extreme example of the same thing – a really f-ed up person going after really f-ed up “needs”. How can a marriage accommodate that? It negates the whole point.

      • Honesty standard for my NPD princess lol that would be priceless she still lies about stupid shit makes it really hard to find the truth ,,, and you are correct her needs are always 1st !! Why I dont have an honest answer for that question I wish I did. Maybe its when I look into my little mans eyes I melt ,,,,, 😉

  • It does seem like a lot of hoity-toity nonsense from someone who never experienced dealing with a cheater. Maybe she lives in the same magical world the cheaters do where cheating can be “justified.” *rolls eyes* Her main flaw is thinking that cheaters are logical people or people driven into a corner/neglected. Good dissection, CL!! 🙂

    • Or more likely she’s a cheater herself, eh? That’s the most likely option. That’s why she has to justify that it’s really OK and understandable.

      How sad to be in a marriage where you and your wife don’t want to see each other or have sex, and a ‘rent-a-girlfriend’ is your best option. Sick culture if that’s really what it’s like for many.

  • I was never told what he was thinking. We always talked, about everything, I thought I was in a solid marriage. Decades long, thought it was rock solid. It was a real eye opener to hear that while he was living away in a room he rented while looking for a place to move us (only I unfortunately got cancer and needed appointments so the move got delayed) that he had moved into an ow dump and was still renting the room.

    I never knew he was unhappy, see all our marriage stood for was nothing when he thought I might die, well, go find a new model. about rent a hooker, they aren’t kidding anyone. Maybe the way the thinking is modeled in Japan you can’t not have honor so it is either rent your life or kill yourself with a sword? The renting might be the way to go?

    Not liking this Lisa lunatic she also has the ow name.

    Yes, make your own church .. that is along the thinking of my jerk here he is still searching for a new church, one that says this is all ok.

    Articles like this make me crazy, can barely make sense in this, sorry.

    • “Maybe the way the thinking is modeled in Japan you can’t not have honor so it is either rent your life or kill yourself with a sword? The renting might be the way to go?”

      I realize this article is full if crap and the idea of renting a date is pretty pathetic, but could you please hold off on the racial stereotyping? My grandparents are Japanese and my mother is half Japanese.

      • If that sounds a little confusing I should clarify that my grandmother is Japanese and my step-grandfather is also Japanese. (My grandmother divorced and re-married after she had my mom.)

      • Apologies in advance for my comment below, Kara. You could substitute ‘Japanese’ for ‘French’, ‘Italian’, ‘German’ or ‘WASP’. An entitled assholes is an entitled asshole, and if they hide behind their cultural ‘norms’, it just means they aren’t a particularly original asshole.

        • Oh, yeah, you can find jerks at all points of the earth. It’s amazing how assholery is so unoriginal across demographics.

          Maybe they’re all having a secret convention every year where they make a standardized list of excuses and come up with book ideas for the next big RIC enlightenment XD

          • Fine that you for letting me know I am an asshole, that explains why this all happened.

            And who on this planet isn’t part something or other? So the fuck what.

            • Tess, she didn’t say you’re an asshole. She said the whole honor killing is racial stereotyping. Look, I step on toes unknowingly too (who knew “tranny” was offensive? Not me until a LGBT set me straight).

              Let’s all be less quick to take offense around here.

              • I didn’t say you were an asshole Tess. I said that assholery can be found at all corners of the earth. Meaning that you can find cheaters in all countries and cheating jerkiness crosses demographics.

              • Tranny is okay in this very gender confused city? At least among the gay guys I know. And they’re pretty much the only guys I know.

            • And it doesn’t matter if everyone is part something. Using racial stereotyping isn’t cool. I care.

  • Anytime I see/hear bullshit like what Lisa Achoo or whatever her name is spouting, I immediately suspect the author/speaker belongs to one (or more) of the following three camps:

    1. cheater

    2. new-agey, “Law of Attraction”, “create your own destiny” which often seems to come down to “entitled, narcissistic, delusional pig.”

    3. unbelievably gullible and naive

    I no longer have the energy or time to tolerate anyone in any of those camps. My ex is firmly in camp 1 and 2. I used to be a card-carrying member of camp 3, but no more. This blog helped open my eyes.

    • I think she sounds like a woman who sleeps with other people’s husbands and then suggests that they redefine marriage.

      • There seems to be an abundance of those types popping up everywhere. Like what’s-her-face other woman who writes books and has a website about how to be a “good” other woman and how wives could keep their husbands if they just follow her advice. We’ve talked about her here before, but I forget her name (probably because she’s nothing to write home about…if she were, she’d be able to get her own relationship). “You just need to redefine your marriage in such a way that I can keep fucking your husband” is what it all amounts to. “Redefine the marriage in such a way that I don’t have to take responsibility for being a soul-sucking whore.”

        It’s redefining the marriage alright. Redefining it so that the cheater and AP don’t have to feel bad for what they do.

          • Yeah, but she gets the women to leave the cheater and get some self-dignity instead, so I’m ok with her.

            • But that one nugget of positivity about her is buried under a mountain of complete crap. She’s a huge hypocrite considering she’s been an OW multiple times over (she’s never had a relationship of her own with someone who was actually single) and she’s so proud of herself that she made a career out of it.

              She’s convinced herself that the marriages of the men she fucks have been improved because of her. And her website (not to mention her books) are chock full of completely patronizing and condescending garbage about how wives can prevent infidelity by following her marriage-improving how-to list. Which is pretty much all the same “Your husband will fuck other people if you’re not doing everything perfect to kiss his ass” the RIC spits out all the time. To her, women get cheated on for not being submissive enough, for not having enough sex, for not dressing sexy enough, for not catering to enough of their demands, etc. etc. I saw her on Dr. Phil once and all she did was talk down to the wives in the audience and wag her finger at the women who called her out on her bullshit. She had such a massive ego I’m surprised the plane that flew her to the set was even capable of taking off with the sheer weight of her head aboard.

              She did say to the OW that when a guy tells you he’s going to leave his wife, he’s likely lying and to not expect the married man to be truthful to you, but she could just as easily say that without all the other crap. In my mind, it’s not nearly enough to redeem her.

      • Maybe I’m stupid, but for the life of me I just can’t understand the appeal of fucking a married person.

        If you are in the market for sexual variety, ego stroking, or no strings attached sex, there are tons of single people to choose from.

        I mean really, nothing says drama like fooling around with another person’s spouse. Sometimes I think cheaters really do like the drama and pain they cause, because it is so easy to avoid it.

        • ThatGirl, if I had to try to put myself into the mindset of a cheater (which, ewww), I suspect that people who pursue affairs with marrieds are getting a couple of sick needs met.

          First, it’s a bigger risk and therefore loaded with bigger thrills. It’s SUPER naughty plus dangerous! If you’re both married, you’re getting away with double the naughty, and the danger comes from both sides! You have to figure out how to stay at least one step ahead of one or more chumps! It turns your dull, tedious, regular life into something more like a James Bond flick. Right down to the Pussy Galore.

          “Gawd, we’re getting away with it. We’re just that fucking clever. That’s hawt. You’re amazing. We’re amazing. Take me now, baby.”

          Second, being married, or having an affair with someone who is married, is the perfect excuse for why you can’t commit to that person. It removes all of your personal responsibility while retaining the romance, hot sex (clandestine!), ego strokes and undercover agent-ness. “Hey, you knew going into this that I was married. Don’t expect anything from me, because, you know — the spouse, the kids, the house. I want to be with you, baby, in the worst way. It’s just that I CAN’T because of…circumstances beyond my control.”

          Free passes are AWESOME.

          A single person is probably going to start making demands on you at some point. Reciprocation, commitment, monogamy, merging your stuff. Moving in together. Splitting housework and bills. Holidays with each other’s family. The normal steps of taking a serious relationship to next levels.

          So much more exciting the other way. The bond between two justifiably unavailable people who only have each other to depend on to keep getting away with it must be a powerful, intoxicating one. And so, so sexually charged.

          Also, unsustainable. And totally dependent on triangulation. When the jig is up, they’re left as just two people, unexceptional in every way, who now have the public smear of sleaziness on them. And that’s when it must make sense to them to start looking for a convenient spouse to blame.

          Which is, in its entirety, the very definition of pathetic. Imagine walking around being either of them. Imagine being that emotionally stunted.

          An affair isn’t just what they’ve done. It’s the outward expression of who they are inside. That shit doesn’t wash off. But these people don’t tend to be terribly interested in exploring deeper meanings in their own behavior. Which is why they are capable of affairs in the first place. They run on loops.

          • Rally Squirrel, so much of what you said is downright brilliant! ~~>

            “When the jig is up, they’re left as just two people, unexceptional in every way, who now have the public smear of sleaziness on them…

            An affair isn’t just what they’ve done. It’s the outward expression of who they are inside…

            They run on loops.”

            Yup, hope they run themselves to death now that they are “free.” Although I expect that the joy just isn’t there for them once it’s “legit”. Legit is definitely NOT what gets these people off.

    • 2. new-agey, “Law of Attraction”, “create your own destiny” which often seems to come down to “entitled, narcissistic, delusional pig.”

      BINGO THIS !!!!

  • CL, I would like to hear your spin on Donald sterling. Today on cnn, his comments about being jealous of his ” black girlfriend, “while his wife is trying to keep the Clippers. It’s just mind blowing! How does his wife take that embarrassment?

  • Well hell, this explains everything!
    I simply failed to take into account the practical realities of our human need to experience life on our own. My bad.

  • Sounds pretty NPD to me, river! Maybe don’t talk to her for another 15?

    Cheating is cheating-that it was with a 17 yo is just her particular color of sickness or shade of shit.

    • Yeah, come to think about it, the reason I ended the friendship was because it was 100% about her. She would call me and talk nonstop about her life for an hour, where I literally could not get a word in, then say “I’d better get going. Hope all is okay with you. Take care.” Click. When I brought this up to her on two occasions, here response was exactly the same both times; “I can’t think about that right now.”

  • Ugh, I am so sick of this (as my friend calls it) “New Age Woo-Woo crunchy bullshit.”

    We need to re-think infidelity in terms of NOT FUCKING TOLERATING IT.

    The problem with idiots like this Lisa person is they are conflating open, agreed-upon polyamorous relationships with deliberately deceiving someone for the sake of your own selfish satisfaction.

    News flash Lisa, CHEATING IS DECEITFUL. That’s what makes it cheating. You’re not “rethinking infidelity” by talking about honest and openly communicated polyamory. You’re talking about two completely different things and smashing them together to make yourself sound smart.

    YES, it’s a good idea to openly communicate your expectations and talk to your partner about what you are and are not okay with. But the problem with that is when it comes to a cheater, you’re operating on the belief that they are being honest and willing to communicate in the same capacity that you are. But cheaters are NOT honest, they are not willing to have an even playing field and they are NOT open. In order for the communication thing to work, you have to be communicating with someone who is on the same wavelength.

    This is the same problem with the ridiculousness of the RIC and “therapists” who say that you have to “start a dialogue” and demand transparency from people who have proven themselves to NOT BE TRANSPARENT. It’s a great idea, but it’s operating on faulty logic.

    And while we’re at it, if we’re going to talk “historical context,” let’s switch out some terms in there and see how absurd it actually ends up being:

    “When you consider the historical context underage marriage, isn’t being shocked by a 40-year-old molesting a 14-year-old a bit of an overreaction?”


    “When you consider the historical context of women’s gender roles, isn’t being shocked by rape a bit of an overreaction?”

    or how about

    “When you consider the historical context of homosexuality, isn’t being shocked by the Westboro Baptist Church a bit of an overreaction?”

    That line of thinking, when applied more broadly, Just. Does. Not. Hold. Up. “Historical context” is not an excuse for being an asshole and then blaming someone else. There are REASONS why we abandoned a lot of practices and attitudes and ideologies throughout history. Because they were ABSURD.

    And what kind of timeline is she operating on here? From what she’s written, I can only infer that she means for couples to have “conversations” AFTER the affair comes to light. Um, too late by then. I’ve said it a bunch of times, if you have issues in your marriage, you talk about them, try to solve them. Perhaps counseling. If all else fails, and it really is that bad, divorce. THEN see other people. YOU DO NOT SKIP TO THE “SEE OTHER PEOPLE” STAGE AND THEN TRY TO BACKTRACK TO THE COMMUNICATION STAGE AFTER YOU’RE CAUGHT. By then, the time to “communicate” done passed you by! This woo-woo bullshit about communicating what you want and negotiating an open marriage after someone has already cheated is crap.

    These “conversations” should occur BEFORE you walk down the aisle. Not after infidelity has occurred.

    And I think she was talking to the wrong people when she talked to the men in Japan. But then again, she WANTED someone like that to support her crap article, didn’t she? She probably specifically sought out someone like that. Which makes for partial reporting. Which is shoddy work. Two people who hate each other, who don’t want to have sex and love it when they are apart is not a grand example of how we should “re-think” infidelity. It’s an example of a couple that should not even be married anyway.

    • Love it!!!

      I’m confused about all of the articles and experts trying to justify infidelity or say that monogamy is not natural. I mean why? Marriage is NOT mandatory. If you are the sort that may have a wandering fuck part, or are inherently selfish, then by all means stay single! There are tons of people out there that would be happy to rub their fuck part with yours, for free! And now with the interwebs, it’s easy to find them.

      Oh but then the cheaters would have to cook for themselves, manage their own lives, work for a living and such. That sucks. And they know from personal experience that selfish people with wandering fuck parts are usually not the reliable sort. They may not answer the phone if you’re sick with the flu and need some hot soup.

      So cheaters lie to their spouse about who they are and what they want. And the last time a checked lying was bad. Universally accepted as bad. So what’s so hard to understand for these “relationship experts” and “therapists” to understand? It’s the dishonesty stupid!

        • A wandering fuck part! “Excuse me, but before we go on–does your fuck part wander? Like, travel out of its package without your consent? Cause if it does I’m going home.” A wandering fuck part. Where do you guys come up with these things, is it some kind of group mind?

        • Or like child molesters they should have to wear signs above their jeans (skirts) that flash neon warnings, “Danger! Wandering fuck part!”

          • OMG WANDERING FUCK PART !!! Where do you guys come up with this shit it’s priceless 🙂

    • Kara, you go, girl. Nailed it with the conflating consensual polyamory, and cheating. Bingo.

      • Thanks everyone. I feel real talkative this morning and reading this post and that article just really set my butt on fire. RIC articles like this are just social poison. You can’t cram those two things together and expect it to make sense. But I guess people like Lisa are damn well determined to try.

        What’s really sad is how incredibly often this stuff IS written by people who have either never been cheated on or who have been involved in affairs themselves.

    • Agreed. In philosophy class, the ignoring of the difference between infidelity and open relationship is called “collapsing distinctions.” It is a classic fallacy, aka error, in reasoning.

    • The use of “historical context” when referring to infidelity to me is a justification of bad behavior by its continued occurrence over time. I suppose the hope is for a normalization of the formerly undesirable behavior and an acceptance, or at the very least a reluctance to judge it as such. For the disordered-narc, it has little bearing on their actions, because the rules don’t apply to them anyway. But, it sure gives them great cover. For the exalted types in entertainment/tech-media/politics/finance, holding such morally-restrictive views is often considered embarrassingly unenlightened. Unfortunately they are the drivers of societal norms.
      Evangelicals and the religious right might try to swing the pendulum back by decrying infidelity and supporting RIC, but their own poor behaviors and track records in a “historical context” make them poor messengers. Nor is going back to the Stone Ages with something like Shariah Law the answer.
      This article writer wants to party hearty with the in-crowd. She has probably earned it too. I’m guessing that she is a child/spouse impacted by infidelity and divorce based on the statistics of our current population. As a child-spouse impacted, if I had been propagandized since my youth that monogamy is not natural, infidelity is a natural consequence of our normal urges, yada, yada, maybe I would have felt less to blame, less shame, and maybe that is the ultimate aim. We are all flawed yet blame-less. (NOT)

    • ““Historical context” is not an excuse for being an asshole and then blaming someone else. There are REASONS why we abandoned a lot of practices and attitudes and ideologies throughout history. Because they were ABSURD.”


      Kara, you kicked the ass of stupid and didn’t bother to get its name!

      • Sadly, though, “historical context” seems to be used to (thankfully) eliminate many bad behaviors but in some cases bring about other bad behaviors. As a society we have progressed significantly, but some of those progressions haven’t necessarily been for the good (such as more adultery). Rules and standards are all fine and good, but it takes good people to make sure those rules and standards matter.

    • “I’ve said it a bunch of times, if you have issues in your marriage, you talk about them, try to solve them. Perhaps counseling. If all else fails, and it really is that bad, divorce”

      Well-put Kara. I would also add that you don’t give your spouse vague directives and expect that the spouse can read your mind and immediately change into the perfect spouse. That’s what happened to me. And the counseling was a front for starting the affair.

      On a personal note – Today marks one year to the day that my XW told me the marriage was over, and I joined the ranks of the chumped. I don’t think I’m at “meh” yet since I think I still have too many days where I feel like putting my fist through a wall, but it’s getting there. “One day at a time” has worked quite well for me, however cliche it may sound. And reading these articles and posts has helped as well, so many thanks to all the chumps!

  • The thing is, my ex and I had the conversation “where you jointly communicate your needs and set reasonable and practical parameters of what is and isn’t allowed” more than once.

    All “the conversation” stopped was me thinking that my gut feelings were right. He can’t be cheating on me because we’ve had “the conversation”!

    • The conversation itself can be a trap. What I have gotten (and he still tries this regularly on a variety of boundary-related issues, not just infidelity) is the suggestion and request that maybe I need to be MORE SPECIFIC about exactly where my line is. Yes, that would be very helpful to his ‘confused’ ass.

      Here’s a suggestion to the integrity-impaired: if your behavior is a secret from anyone, it’s probably ‘your bad’.

      Here’s another suggestion: do not attempt to dance close to your committed partner’s boundary line and claim that the problem is that you are confused as to where the ‘actual’ line is. Stay the fuck 3 counties AWAY from the line if you do indeed intend to avoid overstepping it.

      Freakin manipulators.

      • Here’s a suggestion to the integrity-impaired: if your behavior is a secret from anyone, it’s probably ‘your bad’.

        This is perfect and to add,, “How dare you check on me” well if you had nothing to hide I would not have this problem.

        • “…you’re always trying to catch me doing something wrong,” he’d say, clutching his cell phone with a death grip, sleeping with it tucked between his ass cheeks. “Yeah, something in me wants to be caught. That’s why I leave shit around I know you’ll find. But you’re always trying to CATCH me. If you’d just let me gaslight you according to my plan and get you leave, maybe I’ll like you enough to let you stay.”

  • Let’s parse this little number: “Of course, no one can deny that when you lie and do something behind another person’s back, you are doing something wrong. You’re breaking an agreement, and that lacks integrity. You’re breaking trust with the other person, which is most definitely hurtful.” Notice the qualification–“No one can deny.” That doesn’t mean the writer agrees; it means that there is no basis to deny the statement. Even she can’t deny that lying and sneaking are “wrong.” And “breaking trust is hurtful.” The next word, however, is BUT. So she is, in effect, setting up a straw man version of betrayal as merely “wrong” and “hurtful” to “the other person” so she can knock it down in favor of the kind of communication that allows for people to change the rules on the fly so they can “experience life on their own.” But let’s go back to the last part of the original sentence: “breaking trust is hurtful.” Who is doing that breaking? She didn’t write, “when a husband or wife breaks the trust of his or her spouse.” There is no active subject in that clause, just a state of being. And the state of being is named as “breaking trust,” which is bad enough but does not begin to encompass the range of things cheaters break when they betray a partner–marriage vows, trust in a partner’s truthfulness and integrity, marital secrets and confidences, the bonds of intimacy, the foundation of the family, economic agreements, social partnership, on and one. And it is breathtaking that finding out a spouse is having an affair–is telling another person “I love you,” “I’m not really married,” “He/she doesn’t understand me,” “We never have sex,” and then goes on to share emotional and physical intimacies that were to be exclusive to the partner–well, those of us who have been there know that “hurtful” doesn’t begin to describe what that feels like. She has no idea what betrayal feels like. Either she has never been betrayed by someone she loves or she doesn’t love enough to feel anything. Take your pick.

  • She also spouts some nonsense about people living longer but that’s not true in the overall sense. I read an article a few months ago about this (too tired to look it up at the moment) and the general thrust of it was that the data shows that we’re living years, not decades, longer. Meaning on average people live maybe 8-10 years longer than in the past but that’s minimal in the overall scheme of things. And it does nothing to support the theory that we’re living so much longer that we can’t possibly be expected to keep fucking the same person for that length of time, to the exclusion of all others.

    • I agree. Most of the increase in average life span is about babies and children not dying.

      The other thing is, people used to get married really young, so they were married a long time even if they died at 65.

  • So, following this line of reasoning, if the murder rate gets above a certain number per year we should decriminalize murder? The more common a bad thing is the less bad it becomes? The breakup of a family is extremely common these days. That doesn’t make it anything less than a life-altering tragedy.

  • Cancer has been around since the dinosaurs–if it’s historical, why bother doing research to treat it?

    Fuck ’em. Send them all to an orgy where they can fuck each other and die off with STD’s…

  • Reading Lisa Haisha’s word salad gave me a mad on.
    Geez! Where’s my meds?

  • I am down with reconsidering the institution of marriage. But that cavalier “open discussion” about “visions”? Yeah, I did that because I thought it would fool proof my marriage like Chuck Norris. I simply asked that if either of us felt like straying that we would say something before it happened.

    That is the problem. The deceit and lies Want to bump uglies with Ugly? Think I am boring? Suit yourself. That would have been hurtful enough. But it was the dishonesty that had me spread eagle at the gynecologists office trying not to cry while getting tested for STDs. The dishonesty was the problem when I would not agree to a “no fault” divorce– It was his fault. The dishonesty was a problem when he did not want to be fair with the division of assets.

    But this is coming from a woman who asks if Phillip Seymour Hoffman would have been a heroin addict if he found his “Authentic Soul”. I will not comment further because I don’t want to be an asshole. But this woman has no idea what she is talking about.

    • True dat. She should have mentioned she was a “Hollywood life coach and spiritual teacher” at the BEGINNING of the article and saved me the few minutes it took to read her bullshit.

    • Her favorite word appears to be “authentic.” I watched her promo video and wish I hadn’t.

      Because being a life coach for “Hollywood’s elite” is so authentic.

      Authentically narcissistic and navel gazing.

        • Wonder if a picture of her authentic soul is stashed away in an attic somewhere? The Portrait of Lisa Haisha – that’s a book right?

      • [Sarcasm Effect level: 100]

        You simply must try to be more practical and reasonable before you can be more authentically authentic; it’s only practically reasonable 😉

  • My first spouse and I had a so-called “open marriage”, and you would think that would have technically rendered him unable to cheat… but he found a way. Our agreement had been no babies with other people, no diseases, the other partner can veto anyone they are not comfortable with, and remaining committed to each other. By the time the toner had cooled down on the divorce decree, he’d had three additional children by three other women. The last one turned 16 right before she gave birth (they’d been in a relationship since she was 15 *AND HER PARENTS WERE OK WITH IT*). He was 31. Thank goodness we never had that “new kind of conversation” Lisa HatchetJob is so fond of… there’s no way I could have done it without a baseball bat 😀

    • I have to ask the question . . . If both parties agreed that sleeping around with other people is allowed, why even bother getting married? Seriously, I’m don’t understand. It seems like getting married just gets in the way.

      • Call me old fashioned but I agree, why get married ? Am I not normal to offer an orgasm to the same women 7 nights a week?? ? Or should I be doing something diff ? Am I missing something ?? ?? ?? ? ?? ?? ? ? ?? ?? Should I offer this service to the world ?? ?? ? ? ?? ? ? Or at least offer it to my neighbors !! ?? ? ?? ?
        Oh man I feel SO less than giving all that I have to 1 girl ,,,, ,,,, ,:)

        Just kidding ,,,,,, live & let live god bless em if they can pull it off but i will take a pass 😉

        • Yeah I agree. I mean, I don’t care what other people do if that’s what their into, but I’m confused about the whole idea of bothering to marry another, with means “hey – I’m with you and just you”, if the option of fucking other people is OK too.

          Eh, to each their own. But that part about the minor is beyond gross. I hope that dude is in jail.

    • Yes, I think the argument that “open” marriages prevent cheating is nonsense. It’s a different agreement, the question is is the person someone who keeps promises or someone who does what they want?

      By the way, your ex should be in jail. Doesn’t really matter what the parents think.

    • “The last one turned 16 right before she gave birth (they’d been in a relationship since she was 15 *AND HER PARENTS WERE OK WITH IT*). He was 31. ”
      Come again? So…he was screwing and impregnating a minor? And her parents were OKAY with that? Just when I think I won’t find any higher levels of dysfunction then what I’ve dealt with in my assfart. And DianaL is 100% right..this guy should be in jail.

  • This is my translation of Lisa’s argument:

    I’ve cheated but I want to stay married. I don’t want to stop having affairs. Can we renegotiate the agreement?

    Yeah, I know I broke my promises, but they were too hard to keep. Look at all the other people who have cheated. I need to be able to have affairs.

    This is what I hate about open marriage/polyamory. In real life it’s not everyone loving each other and agreeing that affairs don’t matter. In real life, it’s someone saying that they “can’t” stop having affairs and if the other person wants to be married, they are going to have to accept that.

  • Off topic, but “explaining to your 9 year-old” happened to me (again) last night and I need to vent so please bear with me.

    My 10yo son said to me last night (a year post-divorce, two years post move-out) that he thinks we got divorced because he’s spoiled. I said, “no. as I’ve told you before, we divorced because Daddy had girlfriends and I don’t accept that.” His response? “Those were just work friends, Mom.” I told him, no, they weren’t. They were from work and other places. He said, “you always talk about Dad and it makes me want to move in with him!” I felt like I was going to throw up.

    I realize now that I should not have set the record straight; I should have just shut up. I feel guilty that I hurt him by telling him the truth and I feel like I’m driving him away because his Dad is so HAPPY now and is an expert liar and manipulator (“mom accused me, but it’s not true…”). I don’t know how to navigate these conversations when they spontaneously pop up.

    Just feeling shattered, still today, and needed to get this out there.

    • movin_on..I send you a great big hug. Last night, out of the blue when my daughter and I were at McDonald’s of all places, she blurted out “You and Dad don’t have to get a divorce you know!”. Of course I was stunned. I had to find a nice way to explain it. I wanted to say “You’re mother-fucker dickwad assfart of a father decided he wants to be with his skank-ass whore and not me, so I have no choice”. Damn I would have given my left arm to have been able to say that! Instead, I tried to gently explain that yes, we have to get a divorce, because your Dad decided he loves someone else instead of me, and I can’t control who he wants to be with. She then tells me that I don’t have to sign the divorce papers, and I again gently told her that your Dad has decided he wants someone else, and there’s no reason for me to try to make him stay. Good thing he was nowhere around last night because I probably would have hunted him down and killed him. And the OW.

    • Hugs! This SUCKS.

      Perhaps now or next time sit with your kid and say, “It sounds like you miss your dad. I’m sorry–it hurts, I know. Believe it or not, sometimes I miss him, too.” And let him talk and/or cry, and hug him. This sucks for kids. Don’t say what we all know, that these assholes cause shit tons of pain and grief for everyone around them. Just empathize, and mirror back what he says, paraphrased, so he knows you’re listening.
      I think you could say that, “I really wish it were the case that those were just work friends, because I never wanted to be divorced, but, sadly, it’s not true. I wouldn’t intentionally hurt you or myself or even your father. I’m sorry that this is painful. Let’s find something positive to work on.” Can you do a project together or take a road trip, or do something else fun? Let him have friends over and cook for them? Be there for him. When he goes to visit his father, be neutral about him going, or say, “Have fun!” and welcome him home with kindness and love. I always HATE when my sons visit their father, but I never make snide remarks about it, NEVER bad-mouth their father, even try to find something positive to say. But my kids love home, because it is peaceful and we laugh a LOT and I am always here for them (unless I’m at work.)

      I am so sorry for your and your son’s anguish. I hate what these fuckers and the parasitic OPs do to our families.

    • He was blaming himself and you gave him a pass with the truth.

      Apparently, he doesn’t want to believe the truth, because he’d have to conclude his father is lying to him, so he’d RATHER conclude that he is “spoiled” and this is his fault.

      Yeah, I hate your ex too.

      I think you do exactly what you’re doing. You tell the truth AND you tell your son, sweetie NONE of this is your fault. I know you love your dad. And hopefully you’ll understand this more when you’re older.

      Sorry to say all kids are going to push the buttons sometimes, and kids of divorce always have the “I’m going to (opposite) parent’s house!” as their go-to button.

      He’s a minor, he’ll live with the custody agreement. You just keeping being the strong, sane parent — which because you’re doing your job right — is not always the Popular Parent. Just do those boring, sane, stable, loving mom things. That’s all you can do. I know it sucks.

      When my son was little he used to say “My dad loves you. How come you don’t love my dad?” like I was the mean person and this crazy divorce thing was all my idea (how do you explain untreated mental illness to a little kid? I tried in age appropriate ways.) I used to say “It’s okay for you to love your dad, but we’re divorced and I don’t love him. You don’t need me to love your dad for you to love your dad. I know that might make you feel sad.”


      Just keep it real. It sucks — but in my experience, the kids get it in time. Take the long view.

      • Thanks so much SR, MS and Tracy,

        I felt the hugs and appreciate the empathy, Most importantly, I have now added “Assfart” my lexicon! Love it!

        I really like the “scripts” you offered. I react in the moment and I need that reminder to think about what he’s feeling and why he’s saying the things he says. I circle back after a cool-down period, but I like the words and tactics you’ve given me to use in the moment. Things don’t feel very peaceful at our house lately – they used to – and I’m not feeling like the solid parent I used to be. But it’s a phase and it will pass. Just gotta stay strong.


      • God chumplady, you are so smart. “You don’t need me to love your Dad, for you to love him” THIS.

        I get so triggered by these comments about what to tell your kids, and how to treat them after a divorce. This is exactly what I’ve wanted to say to people, but you have said it so much better. When you are a kid, you want SO MUCH to love your parents. It becomes a terrible conflict when you understand that your parent has done something horrible, and you think maybe you have to stop loving them. You would rather it be anyone else’s fault, even your own, because that means you can go on loving this person. I myself rationalized my fathers behavior as not so bad, because I didn’t want to have to stop loving him. My mother didn’t help, because she clearly felt that I should stop loving him, because he didn’t “deserve” a family after what he had done. If only someone had said to me exactly this.

        You rock Chumplady, can’t wait for the book!

    • MO- I’m sorry 🙁 My X is also saying he never cheated now. I don’t know why they feel the need to deny it. Your son is probably just mimicking what his Dad has said to him- “Hey buddy, your mom might say bad things about me but just remember they aren’t true ok? And anytime you want to live with me you can.” It’s sick but kids can’t always recognize that. My DS is still just a baby but I’ve already thought about what I’ll say. I’m gonna keep it really vague and say something like “I don’t like to spend time around your Dad because I tried my best and showed him my heart and told him all my secrets and I feel like he betrayed that.” Not a lie but not “Daddy broke up with his X girlfriend but he couldn’t quite break up with her pussy.” Maybe you could try vague? Again, I’m sorry 🙁

      • HA! ;He couldn’t quite break up with her pussy’ – that’s funny, Rose. Yeah, it’s so hard to keep it age appropriate and honest. Thanks for the comments. I figure Dad’s sickness will eventually be found out (who knows, he may be testing me b/c he already gets that Dad is whacked), but it sucks in the meantime.

        • Sorry, I accidentally posted under the temporary name ‘summergirl’. Seems that name was already taken, so I’m back to my original name, movin_on.

  • “I always tell my clients to create a vision plan of what they want their marriage to look like and what they’d both be okay with.”

    I always tell one partner that they’re going to have to eat a shit sandwich if they want to keep the entitled loser they’re with, and to plan what condiments they’d like to have on their shit sandwiches, and how many they’re going to eat. I like to dump this in the lap of the faithful client with a self-satisfied, smug tone, too, because, hey–it’s 2014, and it’s time to get yourself with the times. Shit sandwiches can be very filling and tasty with the right attitude. If you don’t accommodate your “partner,” you might lose him/her forever instead of every weeknight and a few weekends–ok, a lot of weekends–unless (s)he wants something from you, generally at a moment’s notice. But think of all the freedom you’ll have! You, too, can become smug like me. Learn to hide your emotional lability like I have, and point fingers, too! It’s great!

    • Miss Sunshine, Too funny! Love it! But truthfully, that’s what this new age idiot is saying!

  • Marriage varies around the world. The key part here is DECEIT.

    And just to answer CL’s question, there are human societies that practice polyandry… One wife, multiple husbands.
    Maybe I should join that group 😉

    • Exactly! I read some of the comments on the HuffPo piece. The word “lying” rarely came up. Readers simply didn’t understand the distinction between having an open or poly relationship–agreed-upon (which I happen to think is also a unicorn, however, neither here nor there) vs. a nominally monogamous relationship where One Person Cheats.

      The difference between cheating and being single and having multiple partners is completely invisible apparently. Ugh.

      There is zero comprehension (except for one of the former posters here–Fallulah Gigglepants) that adultery /cheating is about the deceit as much–or more–than about the actual sex.


  • Dear: Lisa Haisha, self proclaimed “Hollywood Life Coach and Spiritual Teacher”

    As I stand on my Hollywood balcony,arms outstretched, to the Vista of these hills before me. The hills, Beverly Hills, the land of Tori Spelling and the multitude of great artists that populate this little peace of heaven on earth, it humbles me to breathe in the fog over much of Los Angles.

    I am barefoot, high from the pot my little friend from the wrong side of my neighbourhood supplied me with. I have chimes that I ring, when my experience and consciousness join together. I eat organic, practice my yoga and occasionally get nipped and tucked by the best plastic surgeon in town.

    Your article, “is it time to change our idea of adultery and Marriage”, is illuminating, as breakthrough as “conscious uncoupling” that the esteemed Gwyneth Paltrow had recently introduced to the world.

    The depth and scope of your observations as you skimmed thinly through history , the Japanese, and life experience, it breathtaking. It was so Hollywood of you to use many words stringed together that unless you were high no one could not understand.

    I also enjoyed your run on a sentence that could have been a paragraph. Your communication skills had me confused but it may be the cocaine and vodka I consumed this morning after my yoga class.

    You are the voice of Hollywood, thank you Lisa Haisha, without people like you, Hollywood could not be the beacon of the damage Marriage can do to Adultery. I get your point, marriage suffocates Adultery. Adultery must be recognized as a form of experiences and that to truly live life and communicate our needs Adultery is the thing of the enlightened future for mankind.

    I could add more but, I’ve got an appointment with my best friend’s wife at the local hotel where we practice Adultery in an honest act of communication that our marriages do not allow.


  • I love that she blathers on about “having a conversation!” I don’t know about the other chumps, but my STBX WASN’t about to sit down and discuss the idea that he was toying with a perfect stranger on Facebook who was more than willing to meet him for sex in a hotel room! It was only after he had screwed her non-stop for 3 days that he came home to tell me he was in love with this married OW! I mean, really, why screw up the decent life you have by spilling the beans that you may be looking for a replacement chump! Let’s make sure you have the next one securely in place before you blow it up! After all, this chump at home has been perfectly trained for 40 years! Makes me want to vomit frankly!

    • I think that’s her point. He was supposed to sit you down and explain how it’s only reasonable and practical that he screw other women, and then everything would be OK.

      See? Makes perfect sense, right?

  • I want to take a crack at this and see if I can translate using Orwell’s rules (if time allows)

    But in the course of a long term relationship, taking into account the practical realities of our human need to experience life on our own, or through experiences with other platonic or romantic relationships, perhaps a new kind of conversation can unfold with your spouse or partner where you jointly communicate your needs and set reasonable and practical parameters of what is and isn’t allowed in your marriage, so the negative and hidden behaviors associated with adultery don’t take place.


    But in the course of a long term relationship,

    But. Whatever preceded ‘but’ is irrelevant or is unimportant.

    “In the course of a long term relationship”.

    Hmm, since the subject is adultery, I think we can infer this statement means…
    “When you are married”.

    ” taking into account the practical realities of our human need to experience life on our own”

    Word salad. This is hard. First of all, realities are just realities, I think. Are there impractical realities? And yes, “experience life” is redundant.

    So… looking at the first phrase translation… ‘When you are married”, … nope doesn’t help. This phrase is purposefully obtuse.

    So far … I’ve got “When you are married” and some vague stuff about “need”.

    or through experiences with other platonic or romantic relationships,

    ok… now we’re getting somewhere: “When you are married” and ‘need’ “experiences with other… romantic relationships” (I edited out platonic because it’s a red herring to throw you off of the main point.

    When you are married and need want experiences with other romantic relationships to cheat

    ” perhaps a new kind of conversation can unfold with your spouse or partner where you jointly communicate your needs and set reasonable and practical parameters of what is and isn’t allowed in your marriage

    First, i seriously doubt somebody is suddenly going to invent a new kind of conversation. Language kind of evolves slowly, and if she’s talking about cheating or open relationships, that’s not new either, so let’s just toss out that first half of the phrase.

    Second, here she goes with “practical” again, only this time it is accompanied by the qualifier reasonable.. She uses ‘practical’ twice in the same sentence. I guess whatever she is trying to say, she wants to impress upon us that it is ‘practical’? And reasonable! Of course, it’s not looking good because… she basically has said, “when you are married and want to cheat” so far.

    OK, here’s what I have after thinking about it: “When you are married and want to cheat, talk to your spouse and see if it’s OK with them”? I mean, that’s implied, i think.

    Final translation after screening out all the bullshit:

    “When you are married and want to cheat, ask your spouse if it’s OK, and then nothing bad will happen”.

    • Or maybe not “As if it’s OK” so much as “get your spouse on board with it, and then nothing bad will happen”.

      She’s basically saying become a swinger, and then everything will be groovy.

      You know, because that always works out so well for everybody 😉

    • Brilliant, thank you. Somebody in the HuffPo comments did ask if this was the same woman who invented “Consciously Uncouple”. Dunno, but it seems entirely likely.

      Consciously obfuscate, more like.

      • I wonder what she suggests if your spouse is impractically unreasonable and doesn’t want to be come a swinger? Or what if the cheater is unreasonable and impractical and doesn’t want their partner sleeping around?

        There is so much to consider with impractical and unreasonable monogamists and cake eaters scurrying around mucking it all up 🙂

  • I remember hearing this some years ago:

    “In Hollywood, having sex is the way that you show when you say hello, you really mean it.”

    Just once, I’d like to see one of these articles written by someone who thought they’d signed up for a monogamous relationship, got cheated on, …

    …then, decided this whole monogamy thing is over-rated, it’s all good!

    Not holding my breath though.

  • The whole hostess/host clubs in Japan are a difficult thing to explain, and it makes me a little upset as a Japanese woman that it’s described in such a weird/awkward way. There was a 2006 documentary called “The Great Happiness Space” (or something like that) where it follows the day-to-day operations of a host club in Osaka, for those interested. It was interesting to watch because it takes away the “glamor” and really shows you what types of people work there, what types of people go there, etc (long story short, NORMAL PEOPLE DON’T GO THERE)

    Basically, the people interested go to these places with attractive people and buy their “time” indirectly by buying heavily marked-up alcohol. Most of the time, there is no physical contact that goes beyond an arm around the shoulder (though I hear the sketchier places are basically brothels in disguise). People go for the “experience.” So I guess it’s kind of somewhere between Hooters and a strip club in the United States…?

    I personally still think it’s a weird place, but don’t believe a confused “Soul Blazer” who has probably never been to Japan! The whole country isn’t made up of deviants and weirdos! I swear 🙂

    • That’s fascinating, Akko. I love learning about Japanese culture. For some reason I’ve always felt drawn to it.

      Do you think these hostess women are some sort of broken extension of the old geisha ways? (They are companions, yes. But lack the finer points such as the tea ceremony or playing musical instruments.)

      • I’m not attracted to the puke bins at the rail stations.

        There’s a lot of drinking an puking going on. People puke right out in the open without a second thought. There is no social stigma about drinking too much. Apparently, they don’t have drunken brawls too much, but puking… is pretty darned common.

        That is odd. That’s got to be the oddest thing, IMO.

        • Hm… I’ve never seen them at the rail stations, and I consider myself pretty well-traveled across Japan, going from Hokkaido all the way to Osaka. Maybe they don’t stand out to me… I AM impressed with the amount of bins they have to separate the different sorts of recycling at every station, near every vending machine though!

          I’ve never seen people publicly puking in Japan either. In fact, I’ve seen more people puking while I was in New York City than whenever I would be in Japan! Maybe I’ve just been lucky and you’ve been unlucky?

          • Google “Oga kuzu-bako”, I think. I am told that translates into something like “sawdust bin”, but the less delicate and more accurate description is “vomit station”.

            They’re for puking into 🙂

            Now, if you google “Japan vomit”, you are mostly going to get hits for some weird fetish involving japanese girls vomiting. I have no idea what that’s all about, and I don’t want to understand it either. I don’t think that’s mainstream, but vomit bins are mainstream in bigger cities, especially at railway stations.

      • Thank you, Moving Liquid, I am always glad to see others sincerely interested in the Japanese culture.

        You make a very interesting connection – I’ve never thought of it like that, but there are some similarities between the two establishments, now that I think about it. Maybe the hostesses evolved (or devolved, based on how you look at it) from the geisha of old, surviving off the basic human instinct for companionship (not necessarily sexual). Though I imagine geishas were more able to be performers rather than just companions compared to the hostesses of today…

        Of course I have no first-hand experience with these host/hostess clubs personally, as most of my knowledge of them comes from the documentary and of course the widely-known connotations of working at such a place. It’s kind of like how you don’t have to go to a strip club to know what they’re doing in there, haha… 🙂

        Not that I’m condoning spending thousands of yen to spend time with a “hot young thing” when you have a spouse and kids to support! But it’s not really all that common of a practice as people probably think. (Just like how there AREN’T vending machines across Japan that sell used panties like everyone thinks… You won’t believe how many people ask me if I’ve ever seen one… *rolls eyes*)

  • WTF kind of fuckery is this nut job trying to preach? I’m from California, still live here & do not know anyone who thinks like this wackadoodle! And I didn’t marry when I was young. I took my vows seriously especially the forsaking all others part. My stbx must have blacked out during that segment but I digress…….my dad had a brilliant saying it was ‘You don’t get married to date other people’ doesn’t get any more real that that-Again my stbx had selective hearing for that. I know my father is turning in his grave right now knowing what stbx has done & is still doing. Sorry to be on a soap box today but it’s angry day for me today. I just don’t get why these cheating fuckwits even get married & then won’t leave before they cheat or after they get caught. If you are unhappy in your relationship, pull up your big boy/big girl pants and fucking leave!!!!!

    • CurrentChump – all I know is I was desperate one night. I have my regular therapist in my local town but reached out to a gal who said she could ‘cure my foot fungus’ by hypno-therapy alone! (don’t ask, she was a daughter of my friend on FB!) I thought, hey – picked up this damn smoking habit again, asked her if she’d help me get over that too – Yup. Annd, she was from SoCal. So, phone calls begin and over $800 bucks later…. #1) she told me I was 1/2 the problem for my hasband having an affair – took me 2 wks of sobbing over that one to realize she was a crackpot. And #2) she never did a thing about my smoking! Said…oh – we’ll get to that on the 10th session. Ya riigght. (quitting date set by Moi~)

      • Leave it to socal. But don’t associate me with it–we’ve never bonded, it was a foo thing.

  • “Or better yet, just herd all the small kids into giant feed lots and raise ‘em like cattle. (Extra premium for the free-range ones.)”. Still laughing at that one.

    On a more serious note, what exactly IS Ms. Haisha saying? We should all have open marriages? We should all talk about what we want (cause what we want will supposedly be open marriages of course)? Or perhaps we should all just cheat on each other and fail to be shocked when the betrayals are revealed. What does she think should happen, an “adult” version of Lord of the Flies?

    • I’m pretty sure that bit about “a new kind of conversation” is really “You need to become a swinger and loosen up”.

      Pretty sure.

      Put some shag carpeting and a disco ball in the back of your van just in case an attractive stranger is willing, if ya know what I mean. Groovy baby, groovy.

  • FYI. Not down with the Japanese comparison. She is missing the bigger picture. I have some great peer-reviewed literature for her, but I think our tastes are a bit different.
    She made a film called “Psycho Sushi”, so I am just not so sure. . . ええと、あまりよくない。 。 。

      • I don’t know that much about Japanese culture except what I have learned through working with folks from Japan, but I get the impression that while it is considered somewhat more normative for men to cheat, it’s still regarded as disgraceful behavior generally, and celebrities (male and female) who have cheated have found their careers were over when their adultery became public knowledge.

        So… I think I’d take the idea that the Japanese are OK with adultery with a grain of salt. Maybe not even a whole grain.

      • Adultery is more tolerated, but take it into the context that they do not have the same philosophical and cultural underpinnings as we do. As TimeHeals aptly points out, it is considered disgraceful and it tends to be more discreet, as in a lot of countries. Just because something is tolerated does not mean they are okay with it.

        Demographics are also rapidly changing over there– People are marrying later and the birthrate is declining. Not drawing a direct correlation to adultery but merely pointing out that there is hesitancy to enter marriage in general.

        I tend to dislike blanket cultural statements, particularly when it is comparing oranges to sauerkraut. I have a problem with, “See, this group of people does it this way, so they must be on to something.”

  • Sometimes I think HuffPost puts this kind of shit on their site just to drive up traffic from outraged readers. Bad press is better than no press at all seems to be their ideology. Get us on the site and maybe we’ll buy something from a sponsor? Sheesh…

  • I haven’t read the article. The title pissed me off. I did take her Soul Blazing quiz. So, without answering one question, I just hit the “next” button, I am an Einstein!

    I have to give her credit for finding a way to support herself after the reality of becoming a big movie star in LA passed her by….

  • Seriously. Spent four years in school (and boatloads of bucks still owing) for a degree in chinese medicine that I’ve been too sick to practice. The dean of was a ‘master’. He wore orange robes and spent days in meditation and held generations of mystic knowledge in big buddha head. He met with international masters and esteemed professors and they shared the secrets of ancient chinese philosophy and esoteria.All of the students had to suffer through one class with him in order to graduate. Along with learning that drinking baby boy urine (only boys) is high healing in his culture, we women–with the most balanced qi–should accept that it takes ‘many women for the men to be happy.’ Maaany women. Yes. Be O-Pen. O-pen Haht meridian. Breath to livah. Haht wide. Wives must to yin, highest health- state. Welcome your hu-ban when he come through door, be happy for his sperm go happy place. Ah. So. Later–I think I was the oldest person there, so I wasn’t on hip radar–come to find out president fuck student in clinic room. Assistant dean (white boy) knock up student and have to marry, secret. School still accredited and running strong. Teachers still teaching, but the…positions have changed.

    Haven’t read above, guessing geisha? I’m all about the medicine (sans urine) and should probably toss the xanax and get to qi gong. But I wrote a helluva paper screeching at the dude about his weird ass women-wisdom. I don’t remember his comments, but I passed. ‘so the negative and hidden behaviors associated with adultery don’t take place.’
    Righteous, you moron.
    Someone take a picture of the not- negative mess on the bed posting this.
    Cheating is not healthy for children or other living things.

  • CL:
    I have not posted in a few months. And, I have changed my name here to Rebecca in CA. [There are other Rebecca’s now and I didn’t want anyone to be confused.] I am the one who was able to get her Dirt bag Husband served with divorce papers while he was out of down working on location at 6:15 in the morning at his hotel room door with his mistress in his bed! A classic move that I will always be very proud of!
    The past few months have been consumed with me dealing with working out a divorce settlement with my soon-to-be ex-husband. I really like saying that! “Soon-To-Be Ex-Husband”! He is such a jerk, he deliberately didn’t work for 8 months in attempt to drag this out and avoid paying me. Needless to say, there have been many shit piles that I have had to deal with and he has lobbed some poo grenades at me as well. (Sorry, that’s the best analogy I can come up with on the fly.) Basically, he is full of shit and that’s just a fact! Funny – He’s the one who cheated and lied for years and broke up his family, but in his mind I am the enemy. I am the one that needs to be punished! I guess narcissists just can’t deal with what they have done. You would think he would be happier now that he doesn’t have to hide his activities from me anymore. That must have been exhausting having to sneak around and hide things from me all the time. He has his mistress living with him. She moved in with him 4 weeks after I filed. He gets his dick sucked whenever he wants, they love each other and believe they are meant to be together. You would think he would be happy and ready to cut me loose. But, no – he dragged it out for 9 months. We are just now at what I think is the end of the settlement negotiations! I pray every night that it will be over soon! I see the light peeking through at the end of the tunnel!
    Even though I have not been posting, I have been reading every single day just as I have for a year and a half. Tracy, you are seriously the funniest damn person in the world to me! I just love you and I love this blog! This is the finest group of chumps. They are all truly wonderful.
    I have a tidbit about this L. Haisha woman – She had an affair with my husband about a year after we got married. At the time, she was trying to become an actress. She had been screwing the old, sweaty and hairy acting coach that she and my husband were studying with at the time. I guess she thought that he could help her career. Then, she turned her eyes toward my husband and started chasing him. She even showed up at our door one night and asked him to go out with her while I was standing right there next to him.
    She is a fuckwit and she doesn’t know shit about shinola when it comes to people and relationships.
    Happy Mother Day to all of the Chump Moms on this site!
    Rebecca in CA

    • Holy shit Rebecca! Thanks for confirming what most of us already assumed about this dumb ass. Jesus it’s a small world; somebody writes ridiculous commentary on the virtues of cheating and this is same woman that leads with her vagina. Awesome!

    • Inoperable you get your settlement signed soon! And you confirmed what many chumps assumed, WTG.

    • Whoa! Rebecca for the win!!!

      And hang in there, you are close to the finish line….deep breaths. Prayers. Glad you’re back!

    • Hey Rebecca in CA — how could I forget the chump who had her husband served in bed with the mistress? Epic! Sorry the divorce is dragging on — but hope it’s over soon.

      As for Lisa H. — wow small world! Or perhaps this woman is an OW to a large swathe of California. Hard to say.

      Happy mother’s day to you too. 🙂

    • Holy shit, you’re awesome and one of my spirit animals. I thought I got a few over on my ex, but you my friend, take the cake. Well, not *that* cake.

      I also appreciate your humble reference to your husband’s dalliance with Lisa Haisha as a “tidbit.”

    • Hi Rebecca, what an incredible “coincidence” (???? I guess Lisa really gets around!). Hope your divorce comes through very very soon. I remember your story very very well. Narcissists suck!

      (((Hugs))) and Happy Mother’s Day to you and all my fellow chumps.

    • Holy crap. When I saw her site, she was pretty easy to read as an “actress” who never made it past the first audition.

      Anyhow, I read Kara’s response because even the title of Lisa’s article reaked of ” I’m a cheater and I must clarify my cosmic actions!!!!” . Kara called that shit out.

      Hey, Rebecca in CA. Do your hear that sound??? That’s me clapping wildly for you and your new life. WAY.TO.GO.

  • The more informed I become about cheating, the more I see cheating as a mental illness. For some, cheating is a symptom of a lifetime affliction of narcissism. Henry VIII comes to mind. For others, it’s a time of temporary insanity. Cheating often involves an inability to live in reality, coupled with an addiction to a fantasy. Cheating always involves living a double life, which by definition, is nothing short of whacked. Astounding that someone who gets space on Huffington Post would equate a mental illness with self-actualization. Thank you, ChumpLady, for dissecting the nonsense of this article and author.

  • Did anyone see what L. Haisha writes at the end of her article about who comes to her? She leaves little doubt as to who she blames for infidelity…the poor chump who made his/her cheater feel “trapped” and “emotionally disconnected.” Old saws. Yep, cheaters are trapped…between their character disordered inability not to cheat and society’s expectations that they do not cheat based on their marriage vows.

    And as far as the historical context is concerned, she fails to mention the most famous couple: Adam and Eve. Monogamy has a much longer history than she claims. Even the Bible and Hebrew Scriptures aside, she could read Roman writers from antiquity with Augustus Caesar’s imaginative punishments for adulterers/adulteresses of nobility. Monogamy is not new as she claims. It is just inconvenient for her and her arguments.

  • Interesting footnote on this “author’s” “authenticity”.

    She allegedly runs a charity called “WHISPERS FROM CHILDRENS HEARTS FOUNDATION”.

    They (whoever they are–mostly her?0 have a web site that’s pretty self-promotional for Ms Haisha. The website claims to be the web presence for her organization/foundation that arranges trips to visit orphanages in war torn, desperate parts of the world, but there’s a lot of plugging her book about he alleged travels and the “profound” knowledge she gained by visiting orphanages.

    So.. since it’s a “non-profit”, I looked at their tax filings.

    Her 2012 tax form says the “foundation” raised 3500 dollars and spent 2052 dollars.

    Doesn’t sound like there’s a lot of trips being arranged to remote, deprived areas of the world to hear the profound “whispers of children”, does it?

    I couldn’t blame you if you thought it was a shameless way to promote her book and herself more than anything else.

      • Wait… it gets better.

        One of her bios says she has an “MA in Spiritual Psychology”. That set off my freak-detector, so I googled, and there is one school offering this “degree”. The University of Santa Monica.

        Wikipedia has this on that “school”

        The University was founded in March 1976 by Roger Delano Hinkins, an educator, author and lecturer who is also known as John-Roger and founder of the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness (MSIA). He was joined in 1980 by Dr. H. Ronald Hulnick and Dr. Mary R. Hulnick (former faculty members at New Mexico State University), who shortly thereafter took on the roles and responsibilities as President and Academic Vice President, respectively.[2] In September 1981 the first master’s students were admitted.

        The institution lacks educational accreditation.[3] The use of unaccredited degree titles is legally restricted or illegal in some jurisdictions

        In short, her “degree” isn’t worth the paper it is printed on, and in some jurisdictions it’s illegal to claim she even has a degree.

        • Correction: there are some “online schools” that offer advanced degrees in “Spiritual Psychology”. The Eisner Institute offers a PhD program online 🙂

          Also unaccredited, though.

        • John Roger was accused of child molesting in the late 80’s. It’s been well hidden but you can still find YouTubes from people who knew about it firsthand. He has plenty of faithful followers who say in effect, well that has nothing to do with MSIA. And he’s all over, not just L.A. The scandal had his very ugly mug on the cover of People magazine–can’t remember exact enough to pull it up and they’ve done too good a cosmetic job on that whole child molesting fraud thing.

          • Yeah, I just saw stuff about him sexually abusing male acolytes and such when I went digging into this. I sat through an hour of their videos too.

            I think I understand where she gets the endless babble without saying anything, and all the emphasis on “authentic self” and over-use of the word “practical”.

            Might need a shower now.

    • TH – you rule. 🙂

      Also, I love you Chumplings. I really do. Great topics, great posts, and the source of so much laughter throughout the day. Viva Chump Nation!

  • Wtf …….this Lisa Haisha was the ow of one of own chumps and has a bogus charity for children.


    What a piece of….

    Crazy cray….crazy…

    • Way back when I lived in California, there was this place called “The Whole Earth Expo” (I think it was in or near Canoga Park).

      I was pretty edgy when I was younger, but I felt like a social conservative hyper-right-wing republican when I visited that place.

      One speaker claimed to be an eye doctor and handed my friend a pamphlet promoting his lecture. My friend asked him, “Are you an opthalmologist”, and he responded, “No, I am an eye doctor”, and then he proceeded to talk about how meditation and diet could correct all vision problems.

      There were a lot of lectures like that going on there. There was a booth set up for the UFO Communication Center, people selling healing crystals, and so on. A lot of patchouli was in the air. There were musical acts to, but that would have to be another story because… well… one of them, for example, reminded me of the woman whose husband was dancing in that unitard 🙂

      • Ok I’m feeling defensive about the city I hate. What about Portland Oregon? They just mix creepy survivalism and greener pastures in with their chimes and chanting. I’d rather live there. NoCal is the best place I’ve had a chance to live for any length of time. Now there you’re talking even higher dig. holographic healers who live in feng shui correct houses, built by personal friends who happen to be architects. You cross a small moat to reach the chimes that usher you into the wooded sanctuary, designed on a foundation of sacred geometry to provide the ideal environment for your aura tweaking or Bat Mitzvah or whatever you want that day. You pass a pathway lined with perfectly laid out stones that have been blessed by traveling monks, and run the length of the creek that somehow runs through the inside of the house. Those trees are incredible, along Mt. Tamalpais. I think that party ended with a crushing alien invasion. Hey, I was young, searching, wasn’t bred on faith, full of unrest and hungover (then). I was looking for My People. Doesn’t happen that way, found out at least two days ago.

        How weird that I just ran into a woman who graduated that Santa Monica school. Wasn’t my thing but it worked for her. She’s a teacher, as straight laced as they come. She’s a brilliant writer and can’t even accidentally take credit for her super sized brain. This interest of hers didn’t match my projection of her–how dare she! She said-and I believe her–she had a dream she was supposed to look into spiritual psychology. She’d never heard of it. Spiritual psychology sounds like–psychology to me. Again, maybe more about the person than the content. She got immense freedom from long standing issues with SPsych and integrated it as a way for her students to resolve conflict without resorting to guns. Doesn’t get more practical or contribute toward a higher good than that, in my book. It sounded ever so slightly mixed with a shot of Scientology and a twist of Dianetics, but she never once tried to get me to any meeting, master or pay a penny for the promise of future enlightenment. The FORUM on the other hand…

  • Time Heals and Rebecca from CA, Thank you for helping me understand that only someone who is mentally ill would equate the mental illness of cheating with self-actualization. The question remains, why does Huffington Post print this junk? Sick, sick, sick.

    • It’s just page hits. The more absurd the headline, the more clicks, kind of like how Yahoo! is.

    • I don’t know, but the cult, err … I mean University of Santa Monica and this whole “Spiritual Psychology” err umm “program?” involves something called MSIA (Movement of Spiritual Awareness).

      Wikipedia has this note: Several well-known individuals and public figures have worked with, or, with varying levels of dedication, have been associated with Hinkins since the 1970s. The most prominent of these is Arianna Huffington

      If you want the heebie jeebies, read this article regarding the founder and MSIA:

      • And there’s this from gawker:

        Late last year, former staffers say, Huffington directed two Huffington Post employees to attend an Insight Seminar in Westlake Village, California. Though technically distinct from MSIA, Insight shares a founder, John-Roger, and a “Spiritual Director,” John Morton (right) with the group. This sharing of staff goes back at least 20 years, when the LA Times reported Insight was rife with MSIA “volunteers” and obtained emails showing John-Roger was calling the shots. A former top-ranked church minister told the paper Insight was used to draw new recruits into MSIA.

        Arianna’s Mandatory Cult Meetings

        One of the staff members made to attend the event was HuffPo’s New York-based Living section editor, Anya Strzemien (left), according to two insiders. Strzemien did not respond to an email seeking comment, but Huffington Post is said to have paid the bill for her flight and multi-day stay in California, and by all accounts the trip occurred at Arianna’s behest. Said one tipster: “It was kind of a joke in the office, like ‘is she going to be brainwashed by the creepy cult.'” It is not clear if Strzemien was attending for personal development, to “cover” the event for HuffPo or both.

        The other staffer was apparently an unnamed Los Angeles-based scheduler struggling to serve Huffington, an erratic and sometimes brutal presence over staffers who work out of her Brentwood mansion. It was made clear to this person, one source said, that attending the conference was necessary to keep her job. Huffington asked the staffer to think about how important her job was to her, then suggested the seminar as a way to refocus — a neat way of making the event mandatory without being explicit and perhaps running afoul of laws governing religion in the workplace, the source said. After struggling with the decision for a week, and supposedly making a fruitless plea to HR in New York, the scheduler ended up attending, only to leave the company a month or two later.

  • I’m sorry, but I’m back. This woman is a total fraud. It’s like a train wreck.

    Most of the kitsch on her site is self-promotion and nothing more the drivel. In one video series, she describes finding your “authentic self” by traveling. One way you do this by comparing your privileged life to others less fortunate, as was demonstrated in her Masai video on “Blazing Borders.”

    What an asshat.

  • My cheater XH is a charlatan counselor who apparently took Lisa’s musings to heart. He has financial problems and married his mistress – a wealthy, vulnerable client – immediately after our divorce. I sometimes dream of turning him in to the State and exposing him as a quack but the time isn’t right. Maybe in a few short years, when the new 50 year old 3rd wife wakes up to a 70-year husband who is broke and finds that she can’t get free because she now is on the hook for the alimony claim he tried on me and he can’t or won’t trouble himself to find a new hostage!

  • She uses JAPAN as a good example?????

    Has Lisa googled the plummeting birth rate of Japan, that adult nappies outsell baby nappies, and the implication this has for Japan as a nation, on so many levels? That is coming soon, to a Western country near you?

    Wouldn’t it be nice if morons could be lobotomised as a moral good. Just so they no longer pollute the philosophical space.

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