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My Cheater Is an Eagle Scout

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eagleAny frauds out there?

Cheaters lead double lives, we know this. But some wing nuts, I’ve noticed, take hypocrisy to new levels. The Jesus cheaters who want their affairs blessed by the church. Hoarders who are board members of “clean environment” organizations. Family therapists who cheat on their spouses. Investment bankers who are embezzlers. The sinister ministers.

There are the double life amateurs and then… wow… there are some ballsy freaks.

So today’s question is — was there a big disconnect between your cheater’s Public Face and their private fuckupedness? Or were they always kind of an obvious train wreck?

Perhaps it’s not “meh” to dwell on this (untangling the skein and all), but I do wonder if certain professions or community organizations aren’t happy hunting grounds for narcs. Let me observe the chump in his or her natural habitat. Let’s see if I can’t score myself some instant credibility aligning myself with these saps.

I suppose the most obvious front is just having a faithful spouse and adoring family when you’re a cake eater.

Here’s a head scratcher — my cheater ex was an EAGLE SCOUT. For real. He can pitch a tent, tie knots, AND multitask fuckbuddies. Is there a merit badge for that?

Eagle scouts have to earn credits in good citizenship and family life. They have to walk little old ladies across the street and look people in the eye, have first aid skills, and firm hand shakes. You meet an Eagle Scout and you think… gee, that’s a little square. Or Hitler Jungen-ish.

Really, I don’t know what you think, but you probably don’t think… this scout will grow up one day to be a creeper, who hooks up for some strange pussy, and lies to his multiple wives (who leave him for his serial cheating).

Or do you?

Do you have narc-dar? Or do you still trust Eagle Scouts?

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • One of the most head-scratching pictures in my head I have of my cheating Ex is from one day about two weeks before I discovered his cheating. I had just gotten home from work, and he was outside on the lawn and called me over excitedly to show me there was a nest of baby bunnies in our garden. He was so delighted to show me! I took a photo of him kneeling down smiling at the baby bunnies.

    The man loved little baby animals, loved other peoples’ little babies and kids. I look back on that photo now, a year later, and wonder… who is this man who was smiling and petting the baby bunnies and delightedly showing them to me?

    He was already fucking OW. He had already had a previous OW about seven years ago and I don’t know how many others. He is a home remodeling contractor and many of his customers are senior citizens… especially many older widowed ladies, and a whole coterie of elderly gay men both single and couples. Everyone thinks (or so it seems) he’s wonderful and trustworthy. So they give him keys to their house so he can come fix things when they’re not home.

    Pets baby bunnies, is nice to elderly people, lies to me for sixteen years. The nice guy you can trust with your house keys. Fantasizes about sex with underage girls. The handyman who makes you happy by fixing those little things in your house for a reasonable price. Has narcissistic rages at home and likes to be called “Master” during sex. Showed up recently in church for our friends’ mother’s memorial service, wearing a suit and praying and singing along with everyone else. Has a photo on his pc he saved from 20 years ago of his gf tied up and gagged and almost naked in the basement. Likes gardening and with me, created a beautiful home and yard over 12 years’ time… but upon being “outed” as a cheater, took his crap and left and never looked back.

    • My daughter’s cheating ex-fiancee was an Eagle Scout, too. She gave him a get out of jail free card, then he broke up with her a few months later. I’ll always thank him for realizing that he shouldn’t go through with the marriage, so maybe he learned a little bit in Boy Scouts.

      My cheater, on the other hand, could never survive long in the Boy Scouts, or any other organized activity, because that would require loss of total control and compromise. He is a self-employed lawyer and takes great pride in his professional scruples and integrity. I’m a lawyer too and I know he has a reputation for impeccable integrity in his profession. Still trying to unravel the skein to figure out the complete disconnect between his professional life and his personal life.

    • Whoa. That’s mind blowing. I’m saddened to read what you lived through.

      I’ve taken to thinking of narcs as lightweight sociopaths. I don’t know how accurate it is, but it helps me reconcile the disparity of their behavior.

      • I thinks that’s the perfect way to describe them. I feel that way too!!! It’s like living with a light switch. They go from good to super evil in a flash of light. It’s kind of scary as I saw there was nothing inside in the end. It’s like the hallow chocolate bunnies at Easter Time.

      • FlyingSquirrel, I think sociopath is not too far up the scale from narcissists. The more I read, the more I think my ex is/was a serious sociopath. Nothing else explains his ability to lie and gaslight the way he did. Looked me in the eye, and said complete falsehoods that he knew I knew were untrue but he counted on his years of successful mindfucking of me to get me to believe him.

        • Me too!! TheMuse, this is what hurts, he saw me as a fool to believe and then increasingly lied. When I would even suggest that his stories did not line up, he would say, “Are you accusing me of lying!?” in a threatening tone, like how dare I.

          What a horror show. So glad he is not in my life anymore. Now, I wrote the briefest emails to jackass and call it as I see it.

    • jinx..mine too, although not so undercover. He absolutely despises Hispanics. But guess what? The sparkly OW was married to one, and all of her kids are Hispanic. WTF?

  • Oh heavens no my ex is an out and out loon! He has nothing but disdain for the public spirited.

    But even though he’s such a disgusting excuse for a human being it’s these sick bastards with a public mask of decency that give me the shivers. At least I can point to my ex and say, “look how disordered he is,” and no one will say, “he seems perfectly lovely to me!”

  • Airforce (served in Desert Shield and Desert Storm), Worked for over 20 years as A&P mechanic for a major Airline, Could Fix/Repair anything, Worked graves for nearly 7 years when the kids were babies so that he could take care of them and we wouldn’t need daycare, Was Voted in as a Leader in his union because he wanted to “help those that couldn’t help themselves” (a nearly unanimous vote by his co-workers)… blah blah blah

    It was this “white knight” persona that came through when he hooked up (via facebook) with the “love of his life” (a direct quote from one of the emails I intercepted). The OW apparently needed him more. What she really wanted was the life I had created. Throughout the short lived Marital Counseling visits, he continued to repeat that this behavior wasn’t him. Yeah well, it is him now… and I have the imploded life of myself and my kids to prove it.

    • I just love how cheaters try to use the “forces greater than myself” angle to excuse their own decided behavior. “This behavior wasn’t him”…..really? What was it – possession? Alien pods taking over his body? The Dick Fairy who kept pointing it toward vaginas that just fell open in it’s path?

      Mine did the same thing – his “lust” was overwhelming and try as he might for that whole month they decided to end it – that lust and their deep emotional connection pulled him back in. But he ain’t Pacino in Godfather III. So now he has his aging skank OW and her equally classy daughter (don’t even get me started on what I think is possible in THAT scenario) and he has lost his family – me, the children, his brother and all but one of his cousins. That’s called trading gold for lead….and I hope it eventually poisons him.

    • This.

      Mine was a military vet as well. Kept referring to his “honour” even after d-day.
      He was always swooping in to “rescue” someone/thing during the marriage. Always the grand gesture for others, but couldn’t make time for his wife and kids at home (normal family life was not sparkly enough; any schmuck can do that).

      OW was his high school sweetie (also hooked up via facebook) in a “difficult” marriage (poor sausage) and he needed to “make things right” for her.

  • My ex-H definitely has a bit of a split personality. To the outside world, he is professional, ambitious, efficient, charming, courteous & amusing. In the early days of our relationship, when I realised that he was completely different behind the scenes, I flattered myself that he felt “safe” to let his real self show with me. His real self is a miserable mass of joy-sucking resentment & selfishness, with added dollops of entitlement, rudeness & lack of consideration.

    I look back & can’t believe how I genuinely thought that I was so special, that he “let me in”. What I didn’t realise at the time was how I’d become his giant human crutch. The one woman dumping silo where he could off-load every petty resentment, frustration, jaundiced view and miserly tendency. I thought with my love & support, I could help him heal & give him the deep down confidence and self-belief that I mistakenly thought was missing. Doh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! x infinity!

    The cracks didn’t really show in his split personality until the children came along & he had to share his one woman dumping silo with more worthy contenders. He wasn’t up for sharing and the rest is history (or why I’m here).

    • What you describe is my story. I am married to a nArc professor. I just spackled that since he was a scientist he had the typical slightly Aspergers social skills but was otherwise super high functioning. At home he was a mini dictator, a euro-nazi. For me too I think the trouble began when our daughter was born and he just couldn’t handle sharing kibble. To the outside world he seemed like a caring father and a brilliant scientist /professor. I realize now that a huge amount of his outside world was my severe spackling. Now that I am not there to spackle he doesn’t sparkle so much to those who know him.

      • My ex is a professor too. Very scientific, logical mind. He was the life of the party, students flocked to him, my friends used to say “you must laugh all the time living with your husband.” He danced like a dream and everyone always wished their husbands could dance like that too. But I used to tell my friends he was very different at home. Extremely quiet. Mostly off doing his own thing, exploring his own interests. Very distant. A workaholic.

        One of the hardest things I’ve heard lately is that my new DIL “loves” my ex. I barely see my son and new DIL, but hear they spend a lot of time with my ex at his new, big resort in the country. I’m sure my ex is just turning on the charm for my DIL since she’s attractive and young, much like the students he teaches. It hurts. I don’t really know how to handle it, but don’t see my son and DIL much these days. All I can think of is to ride the situation out, and focus on my own life. Hopefully my DIL will eventually see through him, but I don’t know.

        Lately I feel like I’ve lost my ex AND my youngest son, although I do have a good relationship with my older son. Interestingly, my oldest son’s wife doesn’t approve of my ex’s behavior, or the decisions he’s made. I guess each DIL’s opinion of my ex has a big impact on how much time my sons want to spend with me. So sad. I hate it, but it’s out of my control. Lately I’ve been looking at young single women in my church and wondering if one of them could use my support and encouragement. I always wanted a daughter. I miss my youngest son but I’ll be damned if I’m going to chase after him begging for a relationship like I did his dad.

        Anyone in a similar situation? Advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

        • Be patient Lyn. I can guarantee that your ex-H will not be able to maintain any short-term charade he may currently be playing. Your youngest son & his wife will see through it all before too long.

          • Lyn,
            I saw through my narcy FIL after our first child was born. He had and still has ZERO interest in his grand kids. Grand kids take all the focus of his children, my cheater and his siblings, off him.

            That is a weird thing to witness.

        • Lyn,
          My cheater ex-wife was and is charismatic, energetic, intelligent and hugely active in volunteer work. She gets things done and is widely admired. I think when news came out that she had been cheating on me for five years and leading a double life, people reacted to her in a wide variety of ways. My teenage daughters are very angry at her but do love her. BTW, she couldn’t help it and essentially blamed me. Two years out of it and slowly reaching “meh”.

          There is no clear answer here, but you did mention it is out of your control, and that is the healthy and not so easy thing to accept about this cruddy situation. Your DIL thinks what she thinks and I am so sorry.

          How charming your ex is has nothing to do with you and how good or bad you are.

          • Thanks so much English Lady and Chumpion. I hate what divorce does to families! Sometimes I think to myself, “I loved MY family.” I didn’t love SOMEONE ELSE’S family, like my ex. He fell in love with his married coworker and her family, and left me to go live in her parent’s basement until he bought his new home. It’s seriously weird. It beats me how my son is ok with that, but whatever.

            • Lyn,

              I hear you. It is weird that the person who sold out his family like that doesn’t just get universally shunned. He did what any sane person would consider an absolutely shitty thing. For the record, fuck that guy.

              As soon as I (mostly) let go of waiting for my ex’s life to fall apart for maximum immediate schadenfreude effect, my life got better. Even though she is still with the dreaded other man, I realize her life from the outside appears desperate and weird. My kids have commented on how my new relationship seems to be so much more joyful than my ex’s. I do get a lot of fuel from that.

              • That’s great Chumpion. I’m so happy for you to have joy in your life. I appreciate you sharing your story.

        • I’m going through some similar stuff, Lyn, with the older, partnered kids. One son and DIL actively like the OW and see the ex plenty. I don’t see them very often because they relocated about 600 miles away for a job. When I divorced the ex that particular son blamed me because he believed everything that came out of the sociopathic ex’s mouth. I was not a good wife. I had secrets too. I didn’t love the ex enough. I didn’t provide enough sex. Ex had to have affairs to be happy. OW was fantastic. I made the ex miserable. I was too high-falutin’ in my career choice and that ruined our marriage. It was bad. Another DIL was a complete Amazon for me and stood up to that son (not her husband). That son and his wife eventually had a falling out of sorts with ex over money the ex owed his son. Now they are buddies again, it seems. I just have to try to let it go. It breaks my heart because this son and his wife have two of my grandchildren. To put this stuff in perspective, the son with the Amazon wife sometimes sees my ex and takes his kids too. But. This son and his wife have a balance. They do it because they want to at least have their kids know their grandfather (“even if he’s an asshole,” and that’s just what that son said). Lyn, I’m not sure there’s a blessed thing we can do other than love our kids as best we can and hug the grandchildren when we get a chance. I suppose it’s good to keep the door open to the kids who take sides in this way. Eventually the cheater will show his true colors to the kids who chase after him for approval. The DIL who sees through my ex is a huge blessing in my life. My youngest kids all saw the bad behavior up close and they have a real clue. It’s still hard. I have eight kids. Ex pushes and pushes and guilt manipulates all of the kids (except two who he’s cut off completely for calling him out early on). He’s taken to writing me long emails that set me back. I won’t *go back* but it’s emotionally wrenching sometimes, after all we were together for 35 years and had 8 kids . If he’s doing this to the older kids I can see why he gets some of the kids’ heads spinning. I hope patience is the answer. It’s all I know right now.

          • Thanks for sharing your experience, kath. Sometimes I think all I can do is pray, so that’s what I do.

        • I don’t have any great suggestions, other than perhaps to find a way to spend some time with your son outside of the company of your DiL. Perhaps meet him for lunch on a weekday? Or after work for coffee?

          As someone in the profession, I will say that there are people attracted to academic life because it gives them a certain kind of power as well as access to young people. So stories like this one never surprise me.

    • Wow this is me too. Ex told me he was “a depressive.” I took it as my job to understand and not expect too much joy from him. He trained me to not ask too many questions or he would get morose, bitter and mean. He also treated me like a human dumping ground “for every jaundiced view and miserly tendency,” very well put!

      My ex is a public defender. He is very short and uses his verbal sparing to intimidate people. I felt special because he told me “I don;t care what others think of me, but I care what you think of me.” Embarrassing statement and just a massive load of bullshit if taken literally. But I inhaled that and used it as some kind of floatation devise to make me feel special.

      He said he went into public defense to defend prostitutes thrown in jail because prosecutors really want their johns and boyfriends for drugs and can’t get them so they settle for the prostitutes who are poor and desperate. I actually admired his passion to help those who are shunned.

      Now, I found in my first year living with him that cheater had a porn habit. Many women in the porn industry are abused, but cheater never let that bother him. My hunch is that he wanted sexual favors from his clients. Yuck.

      He also told me that he did not want a fancy boutique criminal defense attorney job because he wanted to be home with his family. Right! I would be shattered for two years when he came home at 3am three nights a week because he was “working.” I could not question him on what he repeatedly said (that he did not want to work late) because he “derailed his career for me and now was catching up.” Sick fucker. He admitted after D-day that he was at bars “gloming onto people” (is gloming some kind of fungus like attachment to others?). He was trickle truthing no doubt.

      Not having much experience with alcohol (no taste for it, and just not into bars) I did not realize that he was an alcoholic. When I found out after he came home drunk with bloody knees and drove me and my child drunk a number of times, I gave him an ultimatum. Get help or I leave with my child. He went to AA.

      When he was in AA, I asked him if he would come to hear my nephew play with his band. He said: “You’re asking me to go to a bar!? That would be really hard for me” I apologized. A week later we were driving in the car and he said “see that bar over there, I went there after work with my colleagues. It’s a nice place.” What I asked him how it wad that he could be in a bar he said, “Oh it’s fine, I just drink ginger ale.” So why not come with me to hear my nephew play? “Oh, that kind of place with music is different.” Cheater ex was the biggest bullshitter in town.

      And to think had I known of his cheating I could have left earlier when he was actively drinking and had custody of my child. Thanks to those gals at Bloomington Area Birth Services for keeping his secrets! And thank you Dan Savage for giving them justification to take hostages!

      But, here is the real kicker:

      Cheater was a “great guy” everyone thought so. He listened like a good man and looked like he really cared about people. He would put his hand to his chin with concern. He noticed what people did, what they wore and how they thought and commented in ways that delighted. Just a good heart that one. He worked the soup kitchens, sat next to the senior horn player in the community band so he could turn her sheet music pages and volunteers to help kids learn to read. Seemed like the right thing to do I guess. All very public displays.

      When I asked cheater if OW loved her husband he said, “I don’t know, I never asked” When I asked him if he felt badly when he put her kid in front of the TV so they can do their thing and “emotionally bond in her kitchen” he said “I didn’t think about it” When I asked him what he was thinking bringing my child to playdates so he could be together with her, did he not think that would hurt my child when he would discover this one day… he said…nothing. Oh dear, he never thought he would be discovered.

      The guy is a fraud. Oh this is healing to write. NC for me.

  • My cheater is a scout leader, and he fucked a troop mother, who happens to be a PTA president. Two awesome pillars of the community. I was persuaded to stop coming to family campouts because I guess it was too much to have me in a tent while she was in another one. BSA has rules about this shit, and yet it still attracts all sorts of people who indeed like the “cover” of integrity. My only comfort in this is she had to pull her kid out of the troop, and I don’t know what the hell she told her kid, but I’m sure it wasn’t “I fucked your Scout Master and his wife might kill me; here I thought it was all clear when I divorced your father, and yet I’ve figured out a new way to add even more instability to your life, sorry kid!”

    • There must be something about the Scouts…My STBXW met her most recent fuckbuddy when we took our kids to winter camping two years ago. We were in the same cabin with him and his son. I helped the fucker cook breakfast! Sorry, but this topic is not good for my meh.

      • Ugh Twinsdad, that’s awful. I know the Scouts can be a very good organization for many boys who need father figures. So sad to hear that people with dubious intentions get involved in the group, though. I guess it’s a good cover for people who do a good job of acting like they care.

      • TwinsDad,

        Remind yourself that it’s not you. It know it hurts. Here’s a manly fist bump and a reminder that nobody can make you feel inferior but yourself. Because she can’t see your worth, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

        You will get to “meh” eventually. Stay strong.

      • TwinsDad, sometimes I feel the sadness on this site is too much for me. I really had no idea people could be so cruel. I think I could use a post that focusses on people who went on to be happier, just to balance things out a bit. I’m trying so hard to remain hopeful about my future.

      • See what I say above about professors. Predators go where they can find prey. Cheaters who like married women or men, or those with children, may prefer Scouts and Sunday School.

  • X is a big, church-going Catholic. It kind of fits; hates women, can fuck up (or around) big time, and then ask the big guy for forgiveness through confession and think he can skate.

    He and bimbo bring my sons to Mass on the Sundays they have them. A nice, big fake family.

    If there is a God, I’m sure he/she is on to them.

  • Over Compartmentalized.

    “Emotional compartmentalization, as Wikipedia elaborately defines it, is “an unconscious psychological defense mechanism used to avoid cognitive dissonance, or the mental discomfort and anxiety caused by a person having conflicting values, cognitions, emotions, beliefs, etc. within themselves. Compartmentalization allows these conflicting ideas to co-exist by inhibiting direct or explicit acknowledgement and interaction between separate compartmentalized self states.” In short, you shift all of your focus onto the situation at hand and suppress any feelings that normally accompany it (a popular example being soldiers on the battleground who shove aside any guilt associated with killing people when in combat).”

    http://noubelle.wordpress.com/2012/03/15/emotional-compartmentalization-when-does-it-stop-helping-you-and-start-hurting-you/

    “The Negative: The Moral Threat of Compartmentalization – Dr. Cécile Rozuel, Auckland University of Technology — Dr. Rozuel states that “the compartmentalized person may, consciously or not, cut off the moral values, aspirations, feelings and emotions that are deemed inappropriate and irrelevant to a certain context (e.g. the workplace), thereby creating a moral void by disengaging the moral responsibility of their self (i.e. who they really are).” Cough! Bill Clinton anybody? Of all the online articles I read regarding this topic, almost every one of them talked about how Clinton was able to brilliantly perform his job as President even amidst the negative press about the Monica Lewinsky affair (not to mention the infinite immoral acts of many other politicians…).

    • Yes, I think this issue of compartmentalization is a huge one for understanding the cheating mindset. This is why somebody can genuinely care about little old ladies and puppies and even do admirable things in the community – yet at the same time have NO moral problem with the lying, secrecy and betrayal required to cheat on their spouse. They can switch off a life they’ve had for 25 years and walk out the door without a look back – leaving a completely stunned and dumbfounded spouse behind. The old life and old feelings are stored away in a nice sealed compartment, disconnected from the new. Or they can live two utterly disparate lives at one time. They can cheat with a mistress in the afternoon, and then go home and often even be genuinely affectionate with their wife and kids. Their two lives fit neatly side by side, each in its own compartment, not touching the other. They’ve figured out all kinds of justifications (“I deserve to be happy,” “I’m not getting what I need in my marriage,” “This is separate from my marriage so I’m not really hurting anyone else” or even “This isn’t really wrong if I don’t plan to leave my wife”) in order to be comfortable with living a split existence.

      Most of us do not get it and cannot fathom living this way or thinking this way or being able to treat others this way. And we should be proud of this! I’d rather be the stunned chump than an entitled cheater who has found ways to bypass his conscience. I was a stunned chump when my boyfriend suddenly dumped me for someone else he had been seeing for some time. This was my first (and hopefully last) experience with this kind of lying cheat, one who could look me in the eye and tell me how much he loved me and how he swore I could trust him, and then had no problem an hour later texting the OW and make plans to see her. When he told me he decided to choose her, stunned chump me couldn’t get in through her thick head that here was someone who said one thing and did another, and none of it made sense. His response as he was heading out the door was something like “Well, I had feelings for you at the time but not anymore. Oh well, have a nice weekend. See ya. Cheers!” (Well, it wasn’t quite that brutal, but that was the tone. It was unmistakable. Compartmentalization in action.)

      The kicker is that we both work for a very beloved and honorable organization that has a reputation for attracting really good people to work for it. On the outside the ex was a paragon of virtue, beloved by all, tirelessly working for good causes. A sensitive man, a poet, a painter, with “deep feelings” and a pleasant, gentle personality. I’ve worked for this organization for almost 30 years in ten different states and in my experience, 98% of the people there are true blue. The real deal. Real Eagle Scouts. Utterly honest and trustworthy. So I thought he was the same. He hid it well, but when I look back with clarity of hindsight, I can see the red flags were there in the way he did his job. I believe even compartmentalized people pretty much act the same in all areas of their life. If they cheat on their spouse, they’ll cheat in some way on the job. Even if it’s just cheating your coworkers of not supporting their projects in the way you promised you would. Things like that. Lack of character cannot be hidden for long. Lesson for everyone here: Do NOT get fooled by someone’s title, position, profession, uniform, organizational affiliations, achievements, talents or public persona. None of that is automatically synonymous with character and integrity. If you watch carefully, the cracks will always show.

      • “I’d rather be the stunned chump than an entitled cheater who has found ways to bypass his conscience.”

        Me too. But the pain is so great.

    • notyou, thanks for posting the info on compartmentalization. Can you tell us whether it’s similar to “cognitive dissonance?” I remember my oldest son telling me he thought his dad should win an academy award for acting like he loved me and was happy with our family. His comment was “dad’s now saying he was never happy because of his cognitive dissonance brought on by the affair.”

      • Compartmentalization can be healthy, we all do it, even if unconsciously. For example if you get obsessive about an issue at work but now it’s time to go home. You shut down the work issues when you walk out the door. In effect, you have put work in a box that you will open in the morning, or perhaps you’ve decided you will open it after the kids go to bed. Or if a loved one is dying and you are grief stricken, but you have to go to work, you put that grief away so you can function. If you use this in a healthy way then you will open that box of grief later. Unhealthy would be to leave it in the box and never visit it again.

        It isn’t necessary to compartmentalize to experience dissonance. Compartmentalization can lead to cognitive dissonance when beliefs and/or knowledge conflict. That’s where rationalization comes in. To resolve the conflict and achieve consonance you can end up using irrational rationalizations. So a cheater convinces themselves that they were always unhappy in the marriage, or they never loved their spouse. They have looked back and revised their assessment of their history. This brings their behavior (what they did) and their cognition (what they believe) into alignment.

        • Dat, thanks for that explanation. It makes sense. My ex said stuff like “all we ever had in common was the kids,” which I thought was pretty awful. This was after saying he and OW had “everything in common.” Anyway, after he left we had a couple of tearful conversations over the phone. In one of them he said “It’s just that I saw something different and wanted that…” which is probably the truth.

          The other day I got into a conversation on a blog with a man who said he was terrified of never experiencing a different relationship than the one he had with his wife. They’d been married 30+ years. Their kids were grown. He was bored. He said he’d not had other relationships before he got married and she had, which he seemed to resent. It was like he wanted to even the score. Anyway, I asked if he wasn’t just getting to the age that he realized he wasn’t going to experience everything in life he originally thought he would. I told him his wife was probably feeling the same way, it’s just part of aging. He agreed, then said “I just wish I had the balls to leave.”

          • Lyn, the guy has two conflicting needs, one is he wants to retain the love and security he has with his wife, the other is his need to experience sex with someone else. You nailed how he is coping with it, he is beginning to resent his wife, if he keeps going he may justify cheating with the idea that it’s only fair that he get to even things between them. If he does that, he’s on the road to finding consonance, just not in a good way.

            Another way we deal with cognitive dissonance is memory loss. That’s why I read about this subject. When I told ex I was divorcing he attacked me, at first raging only. When he escalated I blacked out that memory, literally came to consciousness with my ex saying I’d defended myself and I had no memory of what had just occurred. It took hypnotherapy to get the memory back. My therapist told me it was my subconscious protecting me from the pain of the betrayal and told me to read on this subject when I said my subconscious was an asshole, laugh.

        • “It isn’t necessary to compartmentalize to experience dissonance. Compartmentalization can lead to cognitive dissonance when beliefs and/or knowledge conflict.” ~Datdamwuf

          ***

          The way I understand it, Datdamwuf, is that compartmentalization is an unconscious psychological defense mechanism used to avoid cognitive dissonance. Therefore, the cognitive dissonance PRECEDES the compartmentalization.

          HOWEVER since YOU have already proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that I and thousands of other psychologists don’t know shit about much of anything, I will immediately start a petition with APA to change all the literature to reflect YOUR omniscient and revisionist views about defense mechanism.

          Just think, you could start a whole new paradigm. I will be sure to give your credit for this revolutionary new concept!!

      • Lyn,
        “his dad should win an academy award for acting like he loved me and was happy with our family.”

        My daughter who was 19 when dday happened got me in her car and played Rihana’s “Take a bow” again and again. I was in shock so I couldn’t even listen. But now I sing it once in a while: “How about a round of applause, standing ovation!”
        For me the most difficult part still after two years separated is that he really made me believe I was safe and loved and cherished. He said I was his queen and his home. He pretended to be a christian man who loved God. I thought I had the best man in the world and I was safe. And one day after 20 super happy years, he said he didn’t love me anymore, he was leaving, our marriage was destroyed. A month later I found out about OWomen.
        Still, it has been so hard for my little brain and my little heart who trusted him completely to accept that the “love of my life” has been capable of doing these double life and serial cheating and then leaving me as if I was nothing. I definitively can’t compartmentalize.

    • THIS ^^^^^^^^^

      what you have described is exactly what my stbx said about how he was able to hide what he did for 8 years

    • NotYou, a bit off topic, but I asked Tracy this at the bottom of comments and she may never see it. I’m curious if you know if cheating is much more prevalent than ever before thanks to the internet, viagra, and personal phones. Because if I had known it could be this way, I would never have married — it seems futile.

      • MovingLiquid, I have no idea if it is true or not, but I personally believe that cheating is more prevalent now, because modern technology has made it much easier to connect with someone else in a secret, sexual manner. Sure, cheating has always been around, but our modern conveniences make it way easier to pursue a connection, get the sexual ball rolling, arrange the hookup, keep the fires burning and invent a whole fairy tale love story.

  • My STBX was an Eagle Scout, too, and he’s a physician.

    He would go out of his way for people he barely knew, drive hours to go help someone he hadn’t seen or heard from for twenty years, but he wouldn’t even take off from work early to pick my son and me up at the hospital when my son was born. I had to call a neighbor to come take us home.

    When I complained about this behavior to our marriage counselor, he told her that he considered himself “like a Boy Scout”. He HAD to help people! Never mind if he was neglecting his own family.

    The punchline? On Dday, My son found naked photos of his father and another woman on dad’s computer which dad had allowed my son to use to do his Eagle Scout project presentation (among other things), and I found email communications to a hooker that STBX sent while chaperoning a Boy Scout campout. Oh yeah, he’s like a Boy Scout all right!

    • The hardest thing about them being so nice to other people, is that no one believes how they really treat you. “But he’s so nice and generous and helpful, I’m sure he’s that way with his wife too!”
      I got rather sick and tired of hearing what a great guy my husband was from everyone else, cuz he sure as shit wasn’t that way with me!

      • Not only that, but that wonderful guy is probably doing a first rate smear campaign on you as justification for his actions. No one will every believe that you’re normal. Why would such a wonderful guy lie about something like that? I had people that were friendly casual acquaintances get a disgusted look on their face and turn their back on me and walk away.

        This becomes particularly pernicious when the lies are being used to frame the situation around custody of the kids.

        • This is exactly what has happened.

          He has told people at work, my inlaws, his friends, his therapists, his support group how awful I am. Some of it has been going on for years and years. We spent a weekend at his business partner’s house probably 12 years ago. I had previously only met his partner very briefly in passing at the office. At the end of the weekend, his partner told me, “You aren’t as bad as I thought you’d be.” I was shocked.

          First time I found evidence of an “inappropriate relationship” (which he at first denied then said was an emotional affair), he insisted that I call his office manager. I thought it would not be appropriate to involve her, but he insisted. I was curious so I did. She chewed me out for what I was putting him through.

          I could go on and on…

          He also accused me of cheating on him, has sent emails suggesting I am sexually abusing our son, and even told our parenting facilitator that my thanking him for bringing our son home from visitation during a panic attack was proof that I did not fully support visitation. Anything I do (or don’t do), he tries to paint as proof of how horrible I am.

          But the worst was the psych and custody evaluation, which he asked the court for because I am “mentally unstable” and have “rage issues”. The report is stunning in the number of lies that he told about me- everything from he only married me bc I got pregnant to how I think religious people are stupid to I am trying to alienate the kids. What is really upsetting to me is that I had boxes of evidence of his sexual addiction- photos, emails, background checks on his “friends” that found so many crimes including registered and unregistered convicted child molesters, prostitutes, drug, gun, and theft convictions. I had other evidence of him spying on me for years before Dday (recording our conversations, printing out my emails, keeping a fake journal detailing my “crazy behavior”). He had nothing on me. And yet the report focused on me and hardly said a word about him. He was very successful in persuading the evaluator that none of my evidence mattered because this time he was really in recovery (after faking repeatedly and lying to numersou therapists for 8 years- and yes, I had evidence of that as well).

          Even though I had evidence of him disparaging me to the kids and he had nothing on me, it was found that one of his biggest strengths would be in being able to promote a relationship between me and the kids, and I was the opposite.

          Why? I really don’t know for sure, but my guess is that I wasn’t “reasonable” enough. I was dinged for being “too polarized’ when I stood my ground against his lies. This is the bind that the current treatment environment has put people in- everyone is supposed to take ownership of their “part”. Everyone’s “reality” is treated as equal and you cannot “deny” someone else’s “reality” even when they are completely lying to make you look bad. And you are bad if you refuse to play that game, no matter how nicely and reasonably you try to do it. And of course, if you are really being lied about, you should be mad, but then you are considered ever more polarized, so you are put in a bind where no matter what you do- get mad or stay reasonable, try to explain or don’t- it can all be used against you. Your only option is accept the lies they say about you.

          • To Teri? This dynamic of being cast in the wrong no matter what you do was brilliantly cast by Phyllis Chesler with her book Mothers On Trial, which was catching on to the wave of child custody decisions going in favour of abusive men. In it, she juxtaposed historical references to witch trials. Very interesting, poetic, and chilling, with lots of statistics in readable form.

            • Thanks for the book recommendation. I looked it up on Amazon and read some the free excerpts and all I can say is wow. It’s not just me. Thank you so very much.

      • YUP. THIS.

        Most of my family (esp. the chumpier ones) just cannot wrap their heads around what a dickhead my ex is.

        One of my relatives has gone so far as to try to convince me that HER perception of my ex is the “right” one to have vs. my perception of him. Um, yeah right. I’ll just go ahead and excuse all the abusive, lying behavior because you’d prefer me to see him as you see him. No thanks.

        It’s completely nuts.

        • I got this same attitude FlyingSquirrel from church members as I have no family to speak of. These are people who have seen me raise my youngest two children, that I have worked in ministry with.
          Because he is saying to them the words “I take full responsibility despite her doing A,B,C,D,E,F….etc” clearly my not wanting to take him back is because I do not see him as they do, as worthy of forgiveness. Clearly my views are skewed.

          • Ugh. Sounds like he’s doing the old false equivalency trick and the people in the church have fallen for it. Some people sure can be gullible, especially if they think they can “save” someone. Sorry to hear you went through that.

        • Flying Squirrel,
          There is something so incredibly hurtful when family won’t stand by us or hear us. Or close friends like Sammie D.

          It’s another betrayal.

      • That’s exactly right.

        At our latest parenting facilitator’s meeting, he even started crying about our divorce (which should soon be final) and about my son and I moving out of the family home (which I have to sell to have enough money to live on bc he is refusing to do so even though he makes $500k per year and I am a stay-at-home mom with a son on the autistic spectrum). Yes, boo hoo- they have to leave the home that I gave them no choice but to sell!

        I didn’t say a word. How could I? If I called him on it, I would be the bitch bc just look how sad he is!

        It is so galling to know you have been abused and then have to listen to what a nice guy your abuser is.

  • To the outside world my stbxh is many things. A bit on the shy side until you get to know him but an otherwise very nice guy. He appears to be helpful, hardworking, honest, sincere and one half of a very strong marriage. For those “in the know” my stbxh is the complete opposite of that persona. He is petty (his sister always gets more attention), jealous (my sister and her husband always take two vacations a year), lazy (I maintained the house, the yard and the pets), hates to work (9 different jobs in 17 years), complacent in our marriage (always bored but never made an effort to plan anything special for the two of us), and always looking for a bigger, better deal (affair with The Homely Beast). An Eagle Scout he is not…and swear to God, the light bulb just went on while I was typing this! I really am better off without him. Yay, me!!

  • Both h and married ow are in social work field specifically where maintaining boundaries is critical to the healing of the patients. Board members in national associations. Everyone in this specific practice owned by my narc mil loves being around very damaged fucked up people so they look and feel like heroes instead of the dumb jackasses they are. Their empathy, compassion, ethics and training apparently only kick in for billable clients, not spouses or family members. Having observed this group, I can say with absolute confidence that they are dim, selfish and dangerously stupid. OW fired now, having a hard time letting nc apply to her, and continues to cross boundaries in her quest to stay in h’s life. He found himself a doozy.

    • Quoting from the website put up while my licensed marriage/family therapist xW was gaslighting me about the one adulterous relationship I knew about at the time (she hinted at more later):

      Taken from Home page:

      “To help you on your journey of change, [xW] offers individual, couple, and family counseling from a Christian perspective.”

      Taken from Services page:

      “In the area of Family Therapy, [xW] works with couples and families in the areas of:
      Overcoming Communication Barriers
      Restoring Trust in Relationships
      Infidelity & Intimacy Issues
      Developing Healthy Boundaries
      Navigating Life Cycle Transitions
      Preparing for Marriage / Premarital Counseling
      Separation & Divorce
      Families with Adolescents
      Identifying Goals and Budget Planning”

        • From those whose objective it is to make tons of money off cheaters and would-be cheaters, here are their statistics.

          ***
          http://www.lifestyle.com.au/health/10-most-unfaithful-professions.aspx

          AshleyMadison.com is an internet dating site for married people. Yes, that’s right. It facilitates cheating!

          Since its launch in April over 200,000 people have registered in Australian – that’s double the rate of America. Pretty amazing considering the country is less than a tenth of the size!

          That’s not the only thing that differs between the two countries. It appears the type of professions of these online adulterers varies as well.

          Based on a random survey of 10,000 people who signed up to Ashley Madison in the past two months here are the most unfaithful professions for men and women.

          AUS Men
          1. Physicians
          2. Computer Professionals
          3. Sales/Marketing
          4. Accounting/Finance
          5. Self Employed

          US Men
          1. Physicians
          2. Police Officers
          3. Lawyers
          4. Real Estate Agents
          5. Engineers

          AUS Women
          1. Stay-at-home Mums
          2. Public service employees
          3. Teachers
          4. Administrative Assistants
          5. Retail

          US Women
          1. Teachers
          2. Stay-at-home Mums
          3. Nurses
          4. Administrative Assistants
          5. Real Estate Agents

          Noel Biderman, the president and founder of the extramarital dating service, says four factors come in to play when you review the inter-relationship between professions and adultery:

          1) Certain professions attract certain personalities who, in general, are predisposed or are likely to cheat more. For example successful entrepreneurs by their very nature are risk takers (that is how they have achieved much of their professional success) and so is it any wonder that when it comes to their private lives, they are willing to take similar risks? After all, haven’t these risks more than paid off to date?

          2) Certain professions, like professional athletes, lead one to be surrounded by opportunity and temptation all of the time, and one thing is for certain, we ALL overestimate how well we can resist temptation(s) – look how poorly many of us do with food.

          3) Certain professions lead people to believe they have more of a sense of entitlement because their work is literally tied to life and death situations – so nurses, physicians, and military personnel all fall in to this category. Because they realize that life IS short, they tend to adopt what is commonly referred to as a “sense of entitlement” that often leads to infidelity.

          4) For women, in general, the more successful she is and the more financially independent she is, the more likely she is to have an affair (regardless of specific profession) – the correlation here is directly tied to success and what appears to be happening is that we find female infidelity behaviour becoming very similar to male behaviour once their environments and opportunities are evened out.

          ***

          Hmmm… Forget anything about the laws of probability which would suggest that cheaters are pretty well distributed out among professions. That might be too logical.

          Full Steam Ahead, YOU need to correct Trashley immediately (if not sooner) about their erroneous information and how the mental health practitioner field is where the vast majority of their customer base is coming from.

          And I am going to help you by making you privy to our nefarious “insider secret.”

          Know why you don’t see mental health professionals on Trashley’s list? That’s because every single mother’s son and daughter of them LIED about what they do. They are ALL mental health professionals traveling incognito. These consummate evil geniuses lied about their profession in order to keep the world from finding out about the existence of “The World Wide Mental Health Practitioner Cheater Conspiracy.” We are a “lust supremacy” group comparable in subversive ability to The Illuminati.

          Mental health professionals don’t really expect people to (within a reasonable amount of time) stop ruminating about their misfortune and get the message that there is not one damned thing they can do about the behavior of other adults and to (God forbid) take responsibility for their own selves and… freaking GET A LIFE. That’s just a bunch of bullshit we spout in order to justify our own cheating which is so rampant it makes the Roman Orgies look like a kindergarten picnic. We all just spout some platitudes, collect money and spend it to enroll on Trashley where all our spare time from fucking up (and with) our clients is spent being as promiscuous as possible to create our own customer base.

          The perfect way to rip people off. Perfect evil genius. Dont’cha think so?

          I’m not optimistic for chumps because there is only ONE Tracy but thousands upon thousand of us evil geniuses out there implementing our conspiracy.

          “Leave a Cheater. Gain a Life.” Ha! Ha! Not as long as we mental health professionals are out there with the slogan, “Make Some Cheaters. Gain a Fortune.”

      • I want to throw up after reading your post. These people are SICK SICK SICK and it is scary they are out there offering advice!!!

  • Public face = Super Dad who sacrificed his “business” to stay at home with our child and act as “Protector” of the homefront. Godly Man in our home community and Super Son to his **choke–cough–BARF** overbearing Mommy.

    Reality? He had a short lived stint for a guy who repossesses cars. He saw his perfect opportunity to emulate his BFF (another piece of work who does nothing but sponge off of his super successful wife) with the excuse of “no daycare fees” and “protecting” our child and home. His big excuse as to why he could never get even a part time job doing ANYTHING (particularly during the hours our child was at preschool) was that “something might happen” for which he would be desperately needed to save everyone.

    Godly Man reminding everyone how “well” he was brought up and how he’s so trustworthy because he is a doormat for his mother.

    English Lady–my STBX did that same thing—that he “never let anyone in before” and that I was the “only one he ever trusted with the real HIM”. The “Us Against The World” garbage, everyone else is dangerous. Dangerous? Then how to people live these seemingly normal lives? How do they get up, go to work, school and been seen in public spaces if “everyone” is such a threat?

    PARANOID. I see that it’s a typical symptom of Sociopaths and Psychopaths.

    Now I realize that what we needed protection from was HIM, not anything OUT THERE.

    • Oh – your’s had a BFF as well? Mine too – probably the worst thing that ever could happen to him because any chance of being a decent human being was subverted by his “high school bud” who is a serial cheater, pervert who doles out barely legal porn pics to all the “gang” from high school and who not only knew about my ex’s 4 year affair but ate at my table and talked to my face all the while facilitating my husband’s affair and probably getting off on viewing it vicariously. And guess what? Old BFF was a Boy Scout! LOL – they’d do better to let gays members and leaders in – maybe then there’s be some morality – at least!

      • Yep. It’s weird, too. He has a small group that he “keeps” around him. These guys are not considered friends to him–they are sycophants and supplicants. They want or need something from him (and deep down, he knows that’s exactly why they stick around)—but he keeps saying stupid stuff like “Don’t try to be me.” and “Don’t copy me.” Whenever HE suggests to one of them to do something or get something that he does or has.

        The relationship with the one single “BFF” is where my STBX is the sycophant. Anything and everything that this LOSER does is exactly what my STBX wants to do. Anything he has, my STBX has to have.

        I’ve asked on occasion why someone would WANT to emulate a lazy, paranoid, manipulative loser—and each time I get the deer in the headlights. I stopped asking. He complained bitterly that I do not “like” his “friends” and that I will not be around them. Hmmmmm. Wonder why.

        When he is around me and our child, he fakes being an adult–when he is with the sycophants, he thinks he’s some kind of “teacher” and with the BFF—he is an infant, hanging on this guy’s every word and action.

        It’s like they are only capable of reflecting what’s in their immediate proximity. No depth, no original ideas, no independent thought—and that is very convenient, because THEN THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE.

        STBX’s BFF knew about this latest AP and said nothing. He was in my home and has spoken to me on the phone and has never uttered a word. I believe that there are many in STBXs family who either knew or now know, who choose to openly enable Mommy’s Boy. I think they’re a little afraid of the crazy, to be honest.

        • OMG – that is so true! They do reflect whatever is in their orbit at the time! Need to be an upstanding family man – bingo! With my a-hole best friend and get to be a horny man-child – got it!

          Actually – it’s like an octopus (and that’s an insult to the octopus) – they change camouflage for whatever environment they are in to serve their own purposes – whether to hide or to hunt.

  • His public persona is that of an upstanding, good guy family man. Those are the things he has always wanted, especially coming from an environment where the men in his life were not at all like that. He places priority on presenting to the world all his perfect tools to substantiate his persona.

    The one area he was never able to conquer to complete his image was “church going husband and father”. He used to pressure me into finding a church. He knew from day one I would never be a part of any organized religion. In fact, we were married in our village hall. I had always told him that if this was so important to him, I was 100% supportive of him finding a non-denominational church and that I would attend periodically. He could bring the kids weekly. He never did that. Too much work for so little pay back.

    Behind the scenes he is a passive aggressive controlling asshole. I am ashamed I numbed and dumbed myself down. It was incredible the amount of emotional abuse he rationalized was ok in an attempt to control me and my behavior. He piggy backed on my skills and traits for his own career benefits, all the while talking a great talk about being a supportive spouse when he was really just destructive to my goals and ambitions. There was a lot of hidden subterfuge/Gaslighting that I just took. I wasn’t aware at all that my biggest threat was the person I was sleeping with.

    His recent WHY manifesto to me is an interesting piece of work. No where in it does he get that stepping out of his marriage emotionally and physically after the FIRST 30-36 months (yes people, a cheater 17yrs out of 20) makes this a marriage at all. I was a tool, our kids became tools, of his facade. His “home” that he believes 100% he is fighting for.

    Uh dude, you left that “home” in 1998. And did not respect me in any way to tell me. Holy crapola does this drive molten lava into the pit he created. This asshole is a consummate thespian.

  • Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Personal Courage. These are the “Army core values”. My cheater wore them on a little tab with his dog tags around his neck. I wonder if he was wearing them when he was screwing her.

  • To the outside world my stbx appears to be a hard working, earnest, all around good guy, a family man. He will go out of his way to help anyone. The man has been at his job for many years and been promoted to a supervisor position.

    Behind the scenes he is a master manipulator who throws tantrums when he doesn’t get his way. A man who preys on married women on Facebook and who uses his company gas card and work truck to meet and hook up with his affair partners in person. A man who schedules his “work” out of state in order to hook up with his gf and then lies to his boss about it. A man who had little interest and put little effort into the relationships with his children and is now asking for significant placement time with them to lower his child support payments. A man who doesn’t know where his oldest child is going to college and what he is studying. Every day I am grateful that this Lowlife scumbag is almost out of my life.

  • My X is former military. God and country! Likes country music, loves his family, will do nice things for the neighbors. He fancies himself a proud military vet; honorable, fearless, and loyal.

    Underneath, he hit on a couple of my kid’s female friends via Facebook, set up a Match.com account while we were married, had multiple affairs I can’t prove before this last one that was for sure. Now when I look back on things, holy shit did I spackle. Believe me, this isn’t even half of the shit he did that I plastered over. He explained a lot of things away and then would pacify me with jewelry and flowers and would convince me that “No, it’s not what you think. I love you, you’re everything to me, if I didn’t have you as my wife I don’t know what I’d do”, and he’d well up with tears. He was really, really good. He was never verbally abusive or distant. He always paid attention to me and did sweet things, but then when I wasn’t around, God knows what he was doing. My friends were shocked because they all believed he loved me so much. Har har!

    The outside world thinks he’s a pretty decent, straight up guy. But underneath, he’s soulless. Character – either you have it or you don’t. Just because you appear to be nice, doesn’t mean you’re a good person. Oh but we’ve covered that here before. 😉

    • So true!! I am learning a lot!! I tell this to my self and my teen daughters! Just because somebody is nice does not mean they are good !!! Thanks to Chump Lady and fellow chumps I am learning so much!!
      Married to a cop for 22 years!! Nice guy, friendly, helpful , great Dad and family guy. We where called the perfect couple!!
      He was a mommas boy, telling her everything I mean everything what has been going on in our lives down to the spoiled potatoes in our fridge! Lol
      He was telling her how I don’t cook and don’t clean and he does everything!!
      All kinds of lies to make himself look good and justify his adulterous affair.
      So many lies and gaslighting and he accused me for having an affair too!! Which is crazy!! No I worried about who he is telling this sheet too:-(

  • Yeah…when I met mine, he was a vet tech. He loved animals and all things cute and fluffy. Later on down the road, he became a school teacher. Loved kids and kids loved him. Except for my son from a previous relationship that he ignored and only threw bits of attention to when it somehow benefit him. When he moved in with ho-worker/soulmate (and her husband and their kids) he was supposed to be playing the role of stay at home dad to our two…instead he was playing the role of sexting said ho-worker (who didn’t work as a teacher anymore either because it’s soooooo hard). That’s how he got caught….sexting slut bag through google chat while BOTH sets of kids went neglected so they could feed each other ego kibbles like one would feed a god grapes. I still fantasize about printing all of their chats and declarations of love and sending them to all her neighbors and putting them up at the communal mailbox in her neighborhood. Just waiting for meh, but it’s not Tuesday so it won’t be today.

  • Another great CL post that seems to trigger a distressingly high number of ‘me, too’s. I wonder about ChumpLady’s question from this post about narcdar.

    Does anybody have this yet? Or are we destined to look at all bunny-loving, family men as potential freaks and narcissists?

    • I was thinking about this question today. I was working in the garden and thinking how beautiful it all looks, and how the Jackass will never see it. But then, he probably never thinks about me, or the deer in the yard, or the garden. He started the narcissist discard nearly a year ago, when things had gotten to the point where he couldn’t fake the commitment. But now I can remind myself that he and I are different kinds of people. He can’t do love, commitment, integrity, wholeheartedness. That’s light years away from where I was in the beginning, wondering why he didn’t love me any more, how he could have turned his back on years of friendship (let alone a “committed relationship”). I can say that there were plenty of signs of the narcissism and the “crap life skills” that I spackled over. So I think it’s possible to sort these people out if we pay attention and don’t invest everything in a relationship before we are sure as we can be of someone’s character. That’s not to say that a very clever con artist couldn’t fool me. But part of what I spackled was his history, as he related it to me over time; that history held a lot of clues about who he really is. If I had wanted to see them.

  • Do I think certain supposedly upstanding professions cultivate narc-cheaters? You bet I do – and the number one has to be public school teachers. Maybe because being able to relate to children requires a certain amount of immaturity of attitude. Maybe because being the center of a classroom’s attention feeds that narcissistic need. But mostly it’s the union activity. The perks for the union faithful via state teacher’s unions and the NEA are obscene. If rank and file teachers knew how much of their dues were going to travel, airfare, hotels, fancy dinners – all at the best venues for “conferences” that happen almost monthly – they’d ask for their money back. And the respresentative assembly each summer at NEA – if you are a teacher looking to get some strange – it’s like a Shriner’s convention but without the class (so that tells you something. My ex went to the summer “leadership” conference in Gettysburg from the first to the last year I was married to him. When I was first married – a wonderful co-worker of his warned me to start going with him – or not let him go because it was a big hook up “Club ED”. So much so that the slogan no one talks about but everyone laughs about and knows is “What happens in Gettysburg STAYS in Gettysburg.” How’s that for a professional teacher’s tag line?

    It is de rigueur for cheating within the union – I can count from my ex’s local 6 marriages that broke up – some with two teachers in it – because one was involved in the union and via the “travel” had hooked up with someone new. My husband – who loved presenting the church council president, beloved band teacher, excellent father and loving husband and provider facade – was just one of many. I come from a family of teachers – but the union involvement has ruined more lives than I know.

    • Char,

      I loved reading your post and agree with a lot of what you wrote but . . . my nomination for number one profession most likely to cheat is . . . airline pilot.

      I am actually a teacher. I’ve never been very active in the union. Gee. Maybe if I had, I’d have been the one fucking around. NOT. I actually feel very isolated from adults all day long because I am busy doing my job and my colleagues are busy doing their jobs and we never had the time “to sit in the lounge” . . . which is what my x imagined I was doing all of the time. Can you say projection? He hated going anywhere with me because I’d always run into former students.

      • Poor him. You ran into former students who adored you, did you? Then the conversation would turn away from him and onto you and the former student?

        Tch! How inconsiderate of you.

        • I am the teacher (adored too-it’s my one perk). When we’d run into formers students or families, they would be excited to see me. I’d introduce him and he’d stand back and not participate in the conversation or smile. If people asked me how my school year was going, he’d make an odd non sequitur to cause a moment of confusion and then hijack the conversation to himself. Embarrassing!

    • You certainly hit the nail on the head as far as I’m concerned, Char. The MOW my WXH was involved with (still is, as far as I know) has been an elementary school teacher for 30 years. And she’s still married, too. Yuck.

    • As a teacher, I have to agree. Union officials make plenty of money on the side and their perks are amazing.

    • My counselor said that narcs can have good relationships with animals because they’re one-sided. The relationship isn’t emotionally demanding and the narc is in control. Doesn’t require listening, negotiation or empathy. My ex was very good with animals, but he didn’t love them. He liked that he could train them and control them. He was actually very good at it.

    • Char – you could be writing about my xH. He sure loved going to conferences, and going in to work early/staying late, being available via email/phone to students…guess where his affair partners came from?

    • Char, I agree with your point about teachers but must disagree with the notion that relating to kids or teenagers requires “immaturity.” It’s exactly the opposite. Good teachers must be mature. They need to have great boundaries and a capacity to defer gratification, as it takes months, even years, for the effort of teaching to pay off. Good teachers are not in it for the ego kibbles they get from kids or in order to scope out the kids themselves or their parents. But as I say above, people looking for prey or adoration or power are drawn to places where they can get what they are looking for.

  • This is an interesting topic. My STBXW was a supposed saint when I dated her over 20 years ago. She went to parochial school. Was a lector at church. Used to hang out at the convent with the nuns. yada yada yada.

    My brief intimate relationship with someone else prior to her was always thrown in my face as one of my flaws during the marriage. So, I always yielded to her morals. Then when the spring broke in her brain it left me in awe. She came up with some major BS to justify her series of boyfriends after 20 years of marriage. Basically, she became a pervert. Vey weird.

    Just an update on my divorce. She left the marriage 4 years ago. I found out 3 years ago. I left 2 years ago. We got a decision from the Master attorney 3 months ago in my favor. She appealed and we go to court in October. Still looking forward to meh.

  • I think it is extremely common that these cheaters present very well to the outside world. Both my XWs were experts at this, and both had long, sordid histories of having been OW to married men even before our marriages.
    My first wife was different than my second, though , in that her act was much more polished. She was bright enough to graduate magna cum from law school. She came from a wealthy family that was highly respected in our state. Her dad was a prominent surgeon who invented gastric bypass surgery.
    She would present herself as very sophisticated and very ” spiritual”. Now she holds a position where she counsels chemically dependent people and is a certifeid spiritual counselor. She had me fooled for quite a long time, but, I could see the inconsistencies and eventually realized i was dealing with a NPD(although I did not know the catual term back then).
    I distinctly recall visiting my dad as he was dying after I had discoovered the infidelity and was wrestling with filing for divorce. I told him what I had been through.
    he was a very bright guy, a lawyer that graduated from Harvard law school but who had also grown up duirng the depression living in subways at times in NYC. Very street smart, as well as intelligent.
    He told me ” Arnold. your wife is the most insincere person I have ever met.” He had spotted her for who she was a long time earlier but had remained silent.
    I also remember that he told me that he had representeed many men in similar circumstances in their divorces and that, almost invaiably, the men were so traumatized and brainwashed by the ” white kight “syndrome that they gave away the store in the divorces. They just wanted the pain to go away and they had become accustomed to deferring to their NPD wives wishes.
    He told me to get a lawyer who will not allow me to do this and to fight. But, I was so messed up from the cheatng and his death( two weeks after he died, my XW announced she was heading for Chicago to stay in a hotel with a guy from her AA group( how fucking spiritual), that I just gave away the store.
    I ended up taking care of my boys over 60% of the time, living in a one bedroom apartment while she got the house and still got chuld support from me.
    See, the thing about dealing with these cheaters when you divorce is that you are in pain and dep[leted. They are not. They are thinking strategically about how to get the most from you. There is no pain clouding their thinking. They are cold, calculating vampires.
    In fact, I think they up the pain infliction during the divorce to continue to weaken the betrayed and get a better deal.
    There are monsters among us, NPDs and Sociaopaths and the world of the “wayward” is full of these types.

    • Hate me for it, but I don’t trust the special spiritual types. I just don’t. There’s always something there. There’s always something they’re resisting or hiding from, and I think that relying on irrational system of beliefs, cloaked in mystical fantasy as a distraction to the gullible, is not a great coping mechanism. I call bullshit.

    • FWIW–highly ego-driven people appear to be impulsive, in my experience.

      You pointed out you were traumatized. I would like to point out that they aren’t thinking very far ahead either, or they’d anticipate consequences. Sociopaths think more strategically. One thing that works to your advantage when dealing with somebody who is more narcissistic/impulsive is that they aren’t thinking that far ahead, so if you do engage a lawyer quickly and do proffer a low-ball settlement as a possibility other than going through a long court ordeal in which their behavior is exposed in court, you can sometimes get a very good settlement.

      I figured I’d point that out in case you ever do that again 🙂

      • I had a friend once whose cheater 2nd wife was getting alimony at 40% of his salary while he was paying child support to wife #1 even though she had quit her job. She was trying to string things out as long as possible but they had put the house up for sale and it sold. The check was made out to both of them and he refused to sign it until she signed the divorce papers and gave up the alimony. She couldn’t take the long view; all she saw was the check she could have right away.

      • The sociopaths are thinking ahead, TimeHeals. I have seen the NPD types manipulated into good settlements by virtue of the non-disordered partner using threat of exposure as leverage, however.
        One of my firneds, married for 23 years to a SAHM inCalifornia, dodged alimony by using her fear of reputational damage via exposure.
        But, seems to me that there is not too much difference in the ASPDs and the NPDs , except that the sociopaths do not seem to fear damage to their reputations as much.

    • Great post, Arnold. What a relief it must have been, that your Dad had clocked her, and validated your experience.

      • Yes and her own sister came to me and told me to divorce her. She said ” Arnold, as you were walking down the aisle with my sister, I told my husband “” I hope this poor guy knows what he is dealing with”””.
        Wish someone had told me earlier.

        • Yes, Arnold, how we all wish others had spoken up. I will not hold back if I learn of infidelity, even if it risks the friendship.

          • Others spoke up in my case. But I knew him like nobody else knew him, don’t you know, and we had fun just the two of us, when he wasn’t being a moody asshole. He looked good on paper….

    • Wow, so true that the pain of betrayal causes paralyzing pain while the cheater is able to think strategically. I discovered my ex had been to a lawyer and already started dividing our assets on paper, while I didn’t have a clue.

  • Ha ha ha ha ha! My ex was an eagle scout too! His public persona is that of Mr. Nice Guy, a real master of impression management. In reality he is selfish, childish, petty, passive-agressive, dishonest, contrary, irresponsible and self-pitying. Just a freak.

    I’m celebrating this week because my lawyer finally pressured my passive-agressive ex to sign the divorce settlement papers! 6 and 1/2 years and $26k. Worth every penny. Hey Chump Lady, we should have a contest to see who has had the longest divorce and/or the most expensive.

    • Congrats on your divorce. 6.5 years is really far too long. Must have been a nightmare!

      Mine so far is more than 2.5 years which is still far too long. And over $300,000. Our final mediation alone was well over $100,000. In contrast, my son will get less than $50,000 in child support and no support when he is in college. That money could have paid for a damn good education for him…

  • Ah, yes, the upstanding citizen. That’s my exH. I think much of it does relate to the emotional compartmentalism. I sometimes feel out of place on CL as my ex is not a flaming ____ (fill in the blank). My exH is a funny, smart man who is very insightful in the work realm, and a great wordsmith. He was a college professor, everyone liked having him on their committees.

    In hindsight, he has that “knight in shining armor” thing. All his friends are women, and they used to go to him for advice. I did not think this was a big deal, as it started with our group of friends (we were a group of 10 high school friends… Still friends to this day). When the female colleague came to him for mentoring, I told him I did not like it, and why would she send pregnant students to him for advice??!?! No, he was not the father, but in hindsight, it was a window into his need for an ego boost? Pointed out to me post divorce, exH kept everything superficial. You never knew what he was thinking. Friendly on the surface…

    ExH has left his cushy professor job (I can say that, professors work tremendously hard, but they do have tons of flexibility) for his “dream job” which apparently I kept him from doing; he “never wanted the professor position.” Uh, huh, and how did you manage to score that dream job?? My encouragement, and my finally telling him to go do it!

    But, ah, the irony.. He is leaving “dream” job after 6 momths for another in a related agency. So much for that….

  • My Ex was a master at portraying himself as a pillar of the community. So friendly. So helpful (to anyone and everyone but his wife). So Christian (youth leader, front and center pew every Sunday). Such a family man (who yelled and screamed at his wife and kids to “let off steam” whenever he was tired or stressed). So laid back (as he controlled our every move at home and financially). So hard working (as he hadn’t drawn a real paycheck from his “consulting” job in several years while I worked full time and held down a part-time teaching job on the side). The sweet little single mom OW (who, ironically, I have been told is super religious…front and center in church every Sunday and is a tragic figure whose husband died in prison) just worships the ground my sainted Ex walks on. What a pair they are! Jesus Cheaters. Those are the very best.

    • I always struggled with the front and center thing, I fully understand what you mean. Always had to be involved, in the public eye, especially if it was going to get him ego kibble.

  • My ex became a sex crimes prosecutor “to help women.”

    The truth was that he found it sexually arousing to read about/deal with women that were brutalized and raped.

  • “Find a man who goes to church.” “Find a man who believes in God.” This was what my friends and family told me after my first marriage ended.

    So I met a guy who joined our parish and began singing in the church choir with me. He was a Knights of Columbus member. Doesn’t get any better than that does it?

    He didn’t sing at just one Mass a weekend, but three and for every Holy Day that came down the pike. He did this beside me for 10 years, hardly ever missing a weekend. He held my hand during the Our Father, kissed me at the Sign of Peace always telling me that he loved me. Each weekend he sat through 3 homilies listening to stories of cheaters, thieves and sinning. He heard about the 10 Commandments and how we should live our lives. Did he listen? Evidently not since he cheated on me several times.

    And, he went to Catholic High School. He informed me after his first cheat that he didn’t break the Commandment concerning adultery because, while he was married, she wasn’t and as long as she wasn’t married he didn’t break the commandment. Not sure what they taught at that school, but he wasn’t listening!

    My lesson … just because they go to church, doesn’t make them godly or God fearing. I definitely was married to a fraud.

    • ditto – he knew the bible backwards and forwards. I started going to church with him because he went every week.

      After discovery.. I was like… how could someone sit in church while doing what he did? And HE was the religious one?

      Pffffttt

    • Ah the patriarchy, a literal reading of the bible indicates it is only adultery if the woman is married. This is because women have no agency except as the possession of a man. Pretty sick he used that as his excuse, the Jesus cheaters, yikes!

      • I am so glad I had my faith before I met my husband, it has been a tremendous source of strength for me over the last 6 months and I will have my faith long after he is gone.

        But I do laugh at the spiritual excuses, like-

        He cheated because he became lazy in his spiritual walk.
        For him to become restored he needs to read his bible every day.
        For him to become restored he needs to attend small group once a week.
        He cheated because he was inflicted with a demonic spirit.
        He is ok with God because since confessing it is all in his past. (i’m not convinced God is as ok with it or you as you think.)

        My STBX was raised in a strict christian environment he can quote passage after passage, I met him at bible college. And now I am supposed to believe his cheating is because he became lazy? Because he was inflicted by a demonic spirit? Oh and just for good measure lets throw in some FOO issues. THis has all come from the minister of the church we attended together who I am convinced has his own closet of issues.
        No not buying your justification.

      • Don’t forget the Gynocracy, Dat. Men cheat purely for sex/lust whereas women need an ” emotional connection”, a more pure reason for cheating, often driven to it by their brutish lout husbands( you know the Al Bundy types who were conscripted into making up about 99% of all combat casualties).

  • My ex has the all around good guy image, or used to….. He was in the Coast Guard (just enlisted right before we started dating) and spent many years active duty and now is in the reserves. After active duty he became a deputity at the sheriff’s department. “To serve and protect”. Too bad he was serving someone else’s wife and not protecting his family. I see now that the kids and I upheld the positive image for him. Not anymore though.

    I really think that this issue bothers me the most but also helps me see what a piece of shit he is….. My mother died from a rare cancer. She was struggling financially at the time of her death but always managed. She was in her middle 50’s when she passed many years ago. Well douchebag had a male coworker who also battled cancer. Low and behold, he managed many fundraisors for him and his wife (no kids). There was this benefit and that benefit and so on. To the outside person, wow, what a caring guy to do all this for a fellow cop that he had know for a whole five years. He was a part of my family for ten years when my mother died. Nope, no benefits or big ordeals for her. I guess we just were not the right audience…..
    To top that off, my stepdad (who was an incredible man) just recently passed. Nope, not one word or acknowledment of his death.

    • What is wrong with these A-holes?
      I am truly sorry to hear about your mum.
      Our daughter was diagnosed with leukemia a month following D’Day, a long term friend of ours who has known STBX longer than I have realized that he was of no value and to help me and the kids financially ( because I lost my job as I need to be with our daughter 24/7) put together a fund raiser. STBX went to the owners of the venue and asked why they were helping with the event as our daughter in his opinion didn’t need much only some pills and a wheelchair…….. I don’t believe in karma but I long for the day that comment comes back to haunt him.

      • Our community held a fundraiser for my son after his accident and raised 14k dollars. One of our “friends” held the money in a special account which we could draw off of but had to go through her first. A little awkward. First thing my ex did was get that money transferred into an account with his name on it. My ex blew through that money on his way out. It should have been added to my son’s college savings. Uh, yeah, ex blew through that too. His infidelity still costs us money.

      • Sammie,

        I’m also sorry to hear about what a cruel, cold husband and father your ex turned out to be. What a great friend to step in and do what he should have done.

        I know that there’s no way you, I or anyone with a conscience or soul could even begin to comprehend a person capable of such cruelty and lack of caring. I no longer believe in karma, cheaters always seem to have everything go their way, and walk away from the destruction they leave behind with no consequences.

        I hope that your daughter is surviving and doing well in spite if her Dad, and I hope that life is on it’s way to better days for you.

        • Kathy,
          I agree I no longer have faith in anything. The cheaters seem to always win. I checked his phone. STBXH caught me looking at it,so now he’s more careful.
          I’m glad for this sight here we can support each other. No one knows what it’s like unless they’ve been betrayed. All the best for you, Kathy I’ m rooting for you!

          • Danabern,
            I know exactly how you feel. I’m not sure if I believe in karma, not when cheaters, narcissists, cruel people always win. I stopped looking or even expecting that any of this will come back on him, it’s obvious it won’t, and Hes stolen enough from me to let him take my outlook, and whatever lies ahead. After everything he’s done to me and my kids, HE’S the one that still harbors this intense hate for me , it’s so bad that it’s spilled over onto our kids, and after almost 2years since he walked out and 1year since d-day, with everything working out as he planned, it makes no sense why he feels this way.

            Thanks for sending good thoughts my way. Hugs to you, I’m rooting for you also ! Wishing nothing but the best for you from here on out!

            Kathy

      • Sammie D, that is horrible. I am sorry to hear about your daughter. I hope she is doing well. It will come back to bite him and I hope it bites hard.

        • Thanks for the kind words,

          My daughter is responding well to her treatment but it is sill a long road ahead.

    • Casey,
      I’m so sorry about your Mom, I know you said that it was years ago, but to not only have to go through such a heartbreaking tragedy, but to also deal with a husband who is so cold and heartless, instead of what he should have been … caring, compassionate, a shoulder to cry on, your support. That he only puts on the act when it suits him, or can be used to add to his fake image, shows he has no character or heart. I hope that you and your kids are thriving and doing well.

      • Thanks. The sad part is that I didn’t see it like that then. I never expected him to do anything regarding her death, just stand behind me and be supportive. My Dad had passed at 52, 6 years earlier, so I had some experience. However, when the situation came about that his coworker had cancer he was all in. This cop coworker had only been to our house once. I just view it all differently now. Like I said, it is almost like we (my family) were not a big enough audience for him. I just don’t think many people really think about stuff like that. His image is what is important to him.
        I found out shortly before dday that his mother had been molested as a child. He was unaware of that so I told him. Yeah, not much emotion there with that one either.
        When my stepdad passed away a couple of months ago, he contacted my stepdads girlfriend and told her how he would like to attend the services and put on a good act on the phone from what I heard. However, he nor his family have acknowledged his death to me – (he was my stepdad for over 30 years and moved out by me 8 years ago after Mom died). My kids even asked me, why are the deaths always in my family. I said well whose would you rather them be in? It was a good chuckle. My boys and I are doing well and I am glad that I have found some clearer vision these days. So thankful for all the support that I receive. 🙂

        • My ex was irritated when I expressed fear that my cancer might return, he chastised me for being negative and weak. After that, I tried to keep everything inside. A few years later he came home seemingly proud of providing support to his female coworker. Apparently she’d had the same fears after her cancer surgery. I remember thinking “why does he give her a shoulder to cry on but deny me the same?”

          • It is the same thing time and again, they are always happy to go and do for others but the ones they should be doing for, OMG as it type this. Bang!

            They assume that we will always be there that some how they have already put in enough effort to secure their place with us, We have no where to go so they can do what they please as we have shown our commitment and will be here when they return.
            What’s that your key does not fit in the lock anymore, Oh haven’t you heard we have a no returns policy here now and your not welcome.

            • They do for others because they get kibbles from them and from people outside the family for doing that. There are no kibbles in doing what they are supposed to do–just bitch cookies, if that.

  • My ex is an eagle scout, too.

    People think he’s a “fine Christian businessman” who is generous to others, gives substantial amounts of money to charity and loves to help people. He’s kind to animals and just an all around “great guy.”

    He’s also a binge drinker, rages in private and cheats. That’s how he rolls.

  • Life of the party with a good sense of humor. That leads people to think that if there’s a problem then it must be me because he gets along with everyone. I guess it doesn’t occur to them that may be the problem.

    • We went to the beach with church members and ministers. My exh was what I called a minister groupie. I’m surprised he didn’t ask them for their autographs with all the boot licking he did. I spent the entire day watching our five children in the water to make sure they were safe. My exh played every game that others played. He followed the ministers around like a puppy. He never came to watch the kids so I could sit with the ladies for a while. Later in the day, the kids and I were packing up to leave. He was near the boardwalk shouting for us to hurry up. I was busy packing, then I looked in his direction and he’s helping a minister, his wife and their five kids pack and carry some of their belongings. One of the ministers little girls was cold and he wrapped a towel around her and carried her to the boardwalk. Meanwhile, his own daughter was shivering with blue lips. After he helped them, he stood at the boardwalk to yell at us again to hurry up. He was later ordained a deacon. He was seen as a caring and compassionate man. We were all afraid of him behind closed doors. This is the same despicable piece of shit that molested our daughter. As soon as I found out I had him arrested. The good deacon is serving 9yrs plus 10yrs probation when released. I’m so glad to be rid of that monster.

  • My ex is a bar/restaurant owner, it was inherited from his parents. He’s friendly, personable, puts on a very good show to those who go there, especially the regulars. He is a master at putting on a front, lying so you’ll eat or drink there and bring him money. He has told me, and truly believes that everyone loves him, that they think he’s wonderful, and he acts like his name is on par with Kennedy, Beckham, Rockefeller, etc. I truly believed that until the divorce, but now people around town openly walk up or comment on what they really think or have heard about him., About 15 years ago, he started hiring only young girls to work there, the only guys he hires, wash dishes, nothing more. And he would flirt and hang all over them and whatever girls came to the bar. I was constantly berated if I had a problem with it, about not trusting him, that a wife shouldn’t doubt her husband, question him, that she should have enough trust to not be a jealous witch (his words ) and it bothered me at all, then I have serious issues.

    I found out after he left, and for months after, that he was painting a totally different picture of me and the kids to everyone at his business, customers and employees, even friends. Trashing us, badmouthing, turning down invites we received and telling them I didn’t like them, then if I found out about any invites, he would tell me “he forgot about it”, etc.

    My Dad spent months trying to convince me that he’s a pathological liar., that he’s told so many lies he can’t even remember what the truth is. And unfortunately, my kids found out how true that was when he would talk about their lives and it was so far from the truth that he made no sense. I’ve finally accepted that if old friends don’t know me well enough to know me and who I am, that I’m not the lies, then they’re not people I want to be around.

    Now, he and the OW donate to cancer causes, attends fundraisers for those suffering from the disease, but when I was diagnosed they started their affair , and wished me dead so he wouldn’t have to pay out a dime to me in a divorce, Plus, the OW constantly takes about living her life thru Christ.

      • Thanks FlyingSquirrel,
        Sending hugs back to you! The support that I receive here from reading about and sharing experiences, wisdom, comfort and compassion have been a lifesaver for me.

        Wishing you joy and happiness, and great days ahead!

  • When people hear that my husband and I have separated I have often had the response of ‘no way, fuck I thought you two were rock solid’, and people are shocked when I say that I have suspected him for years, because at face value we were the perfect loving christian family attending church every sunday, twice if you felt the need to be seen as going the extra mile for God. STBX was a big deal when it came to worship, gifted at piano, and loved to show off his musical ability by giving others the benefit of his expertise, prays in tongues, raises his hands you get the picture. Good provider worked hard, has just had a bit of bad luck, bosses don’t appreciate quality staff when they have them. Would go out of his way to help others, go visit the pastors elderly mother, mow peoples lawns, cook the BBQ for the local football club, play football on reserve team and then support the A grade team. Really Top Bloke, A little feminine but hey who can tell these day right? besides he has a wife and three kids.

    OMG that bucket of spackle I have been lugging around for 20 years has made my hands go numb. Mr Nice Guy is so full of shit I am surprised his eyes are blue. He is a rude, lazy, manipulating, condescending, disrespectful, catty, disconnected, lying, cheating Turd Burger. And having a Wife and three kids doesn’t mean squat. We were just a front, a label if you like for a set of compartments in his head, the ones that met the conventions of expectation to which he was raised. The other compartments hide the pathetic mess that likes to wait around public toilet blocks for others to arrive in the hope of oral sex. That has had 20 different employment roles in as many years dropping 40k pa as a result. Who is jealous of the sporting ability of his teenage son, creating an unhealthy father son dynamic. Who has openly flirted with his soccer mates and others in front of me and left me dazed and confused at what I was seeing. Due to some paperwork I have found since he has left I can only consider that some of the jobs he has lost has also had something to do with his sexual ambiguity. Especially when several positions were for Christian organizations. He was even jealous of my job ( that I worked in a school and got 11 weeks holidays a year) and so a year ago applied to be my boss. I praise God he did not get the position.
    He has always been someone that has held others to high account for their actions me included and now to find that he has been unfaithful with multiple males over the last 8 yrs one of which bashed him in the head steeling his watch and wedding bands. Yes I was a big time chump that day I rush to his aid, drove him home, sat at the hospital with him till the small hours of the morning and could not understand why he was obsessed with writing out what had happened while we sat there. I now know it was to cement it in his head what his story would be. Got to love those little boxes.

    notyou, your explanation of compartmentalization is spot on. It is this behavior that has enabled my STBX to live to very separate and contradictory lives all these years, and now to own it will mean those boxes would need to merge. Glad I am not spackling that crap.

  • Well, the thought that hit me with the title, is that you become an Eagle Scout as a teenager. So someone might not be a cheater until later.

    • Seriously? Do you know the oath they take as they become an Eagle Scout? One of honor and responsibility. One of loyalty. An Eagle Scout is supposed to carry these traits with them FOREVER not just until they are no longer a teenager.

  • My XH is a cop/high school resource officer that has already had pictures and texts on his phone between him and high school/college aged girls… loves any attention.. a lot of parents in our town are figuring out what a shitbag he is.. trying to get him away from their kids and out of the school… cops have already been called on him during arguments with me (married at the time, hed never hit me, just emotionally abuse),as well as arguments with the wife before me.. The p.d. still isnt figuring out their school cop has no morals whatsoever.

  • My husband is a former marine. Semper fi is their motto-Always faithful. Death before dishonor, hmmm, really. Not so much as far as I can see. Was very much against anything immoral or otherwise when we were dating and early marriage. But let some fugly married 24 year old slobber after him and the 20 plus years of Semper Fi flies out the window. Always faithful to his needs, maybe.

  • Wow! My cheater was also an Eagle Scout though he was not and had not been active in scouts for years and years. When we first got together his mother said to me, “He’s never had such a great girlfriend-someone who is educated and independent.” That should have been my first clue to run away. The second flag began waving when she added, “He’ll never cheat on you, in case you are worried about that.” It never dawned on me a mother would cover for her son like that. Maybe that makes them both lying cheats.

  • Air Force and Army, retired Army, desert storm, blah blah blah, top secret clearance. While in the military would not talk to other military members he knew were cheating on their wives, would rant to me about how horrible they were, how sorry he felt for their wives.

    I asked him about that, how he used to hate cheaters, he said “I changed my point of view”

    Nice.

    His story to everyone as he worked for the state was I was sick and had to be near my doctors, also we were divorced, also he had “one of those” when referring to if he had an ex wife.

    At time I was not ex wife, I am not now.

    He does not want cake to leave he is not able to face this it makes him tired he can’t talk, this can’t be happening, they really can’t be things that happen, this isn’t real.

    hahaha

    Up until the afternoon I found out he was like the guy on leave it to beaver or father knows best or the dad in my three sons, you know, he had that front. Before my eyes he turned into naughty daddy or something really sick, has not changed back since.

    He can be a lunatic, and at work he has this front he puts up and no one would have a clue. He could have several personalities.

    He lived the life of a goody two shoes, picking up litter, recycled, paid bills on time, tucked shirt in, really nice manners, now he is a whoreslut all out the window.

    ewwww

    • Mine was career military! Semper Fi!! Yeah, right! Always faithful my butt!! Now he is a college professor !! WTF? Guess I got the double whammy!!

  • Sorry but I like the opportunity for cop bashing whenever it arrives, it is a pastime. My XW is a cop. She will ticket you for speeding over 20 but she likes to drive 30 over herself. Afterall she has a free pass, a badge to flash other cops. Police are often called to domestic disputes, yet when she comes home she is mentally abusive to the kids. They are my step kids so she took them away at separation…they must either march to her drum beat or the yelling and screaming and insults begin. I’m no longer around to calm the situation. The oldest has mental health issues directed towards his mother and her abuse. The youngest is quite shy. She is a piece of shit personally, but likes to parade around as a police officer believing she is a gift to the community. Fk that, I know. whatever!

    • Since I think I have a uniform thing, I had been considering someone in law enforcement for my next significant other. But after coming to CL and reading how many cops are cheaters, I’ve changed my mind! No cops for me.

      • Well, ex NPD cheater was also a Narc by trade. (Narcotics cop.) So, no uniform day-to-day but deserving to be painted with the same shitty brush as the other bad cops here. Lying well is a job requirement and he was/is really good at his job. Having a “piece on the side” was part of the culture of his unit. Some events/get togethers they bring their wives, others the OW.

        He is the most generous, helpful, fun, upstanding guy on the surface and a lifelong entitled asshole cheater in reality I now realize he has never been truthful with any woman ever. After I moved out and went NC for a while in my own place, he pursued me and I fell for it – again. Turns out he was already engaged to now Wife while stringing me along/sleeping with me/using me for shoulder to lean on kibbles as often he could. I found out and cut him out of my life that day. She had/has no idea about any of this, poor woman. (I didn’t know about this or her identity till after they were married.) I’m sure he doesn’t consider that he cheated on her because they weren’t married yet. It wouldn’t occur to him that I know he got her to the alter through deception, so I also know the marriage is a sham, She fell for his swell stand-up guy act and love bombing just as I did. But to paraphrase Amy Aikon, ” A leopard doesn’t just drop its spots in the Good Will box and prance home all paisley.”

        One more thing, 2 years ago NPD Narc’s Now Wife was posting photos of him with his kids from his 1st marriage on Facebook gushing about what a great dad he is. She hasn’t posted another photo of him/the 2 of them/his kids since the wedding over a year ago. I’m getting closer to meh but sometimes I give in to the urge to check and see if the karma bus has arrived yet. I also still have moments of wanting to help it along by sending her all of the proof I have of how often and long he cheated on her while professing his love to her. I don’t want to give him any ego kibbles of centrality, though. Especially after this amount of time, I’m embarrassed I even entertain the thought. It does piss me off that everyone still thinks he’s such a great guy. No longer my circus, nor my monkeys.

        • done as dinner, wow our stories sound sooo similar (my ex the cop, professing his love to me and sneaking up to my window at night to talk to me behind her back).. 2 years later theyre still together, and they dont seem happy. I wish i knew how to get past being angry at everyone that seems to support homewrecking/cheating in my town. UGH

  • Bet he was a whore the entire time he was in military, that would explain his disdain for those horrible guys who were cheaters, yup sure that was a front too.

  • I don’t know, may not buy popcorn from those little fellas now

    I always thought they should sell better stuff anyway

  • I will never forget the hypocrisy some years ago when I was still in limbo with my ex.

    She is a lawyer, and was invited to be a guest speaker at an international women’s day event. There were several guest women speakers that night. All seemed genuine. Who would know. My wife chose to speak about human rights abuses against women around the world. She gave several examples of discrimination and abuse against women. Many examples were sexual in nature. I remember one example she cited was regarding “amazon” selling t-shirts online which depicted rape as “cool”.

    As she concluded with her very convincing portrayal as a pillar of society, she received genuine applause. I must have had steam coming out of my ears, as I sat there with my 2 sons. All I saw was an emotionally abusive, dishonest hypocrite. I thought, infidelity is definitely abuse, no matter how you try to sugar coat it. Behind closed doors, she is the most verbally abusive and aggressive person I have ever known. Manipulative and immoral.

    These sociopaths thrive on deception. There just seems no justice sometimes.

      • People who use insincere good deeds to boost themselves up creep me out. I was always told how “good and helpful a person, really nic she only helps people” the ow was. Until her head spun around 360 degrees and her biggest quality was ‘not losing’. Good people don’t have spouses and affairs at the same time. I think they often use their careers as a way to throw people off the trail – a social worker in brain injury and therapy would never cheat. It’s a great cover. And mil, the marriage therapist has cut me out of her life since finding out about her son. Ugly people.

    • And the sad thing is that they come off quite believably to the casual observer or acquaintance. Their ugly under belly doesn’t show until you’re locked in a cage with them.

  • My ex is a peace officer with the state of Ca. Led a pretty charmed life, even with life’s ups and downs. Was handsome, intelligent, and looked great in uniform, worked long hours (but never promoted and had difficulty relating to superiors, talked and complained about this incessantly) and has been employed w/the same organization for many years. Over the years though his personal and financial decisions ruined our marriage. He was one of those people who had it all and then slowly dismantled it. He was never satisfied, never happy with what he had. Looking back he was great until the kids came along (shared kibbles and competition), he worked and played hard (spent more time at the racquetball club than at home), and while I happily and competently did the majority of the work at home he pretty much lived a life separate from ours. I can remember holidays, birthdays, and Christmas mornings where he would just show up. I had already done everything else: all the planning and errands, wrapped the gifts, purchased the cake, etc. Looking back he always seemed disconnected. I always felt like there was something missing. He wanted more and more things. Didn’t really enjoy what he had. Family vacations were a lesson in futility. He would spend them charming others, often complete strangers, and basically ignored the kids and I. (My children were easy, and I am not high maintenance.) It was a pattern that grew worse and worse over the years and while I tried to communicate he just shut me out. I believe he always felt inferior. When he left our marriage (28 years together) he one day out of the blue stated he wanted a divorce. This after purchasing a twenty acre parcel of land and building our dream home. Not that there weren’t signs (cheaters do subscribe to the same MO)…. I just always attributed poor behavior to stress, or work, or dealing with life. But I was always waiting for him to step up, to be present, to engage in our life together. Over the years he made a lot of unilateral personal and financial decisions that didn’t make sense; moving us away from family, soliciting a transfer without my consent, bending the rules. When he lied about a “work” injury that he got playing racquetball I began to question his character. When our son was hospitalized his wacky behavior showed me that he was the one person in my life I could never count on. And then there were the two years leading up to dday. Dissipating assets, the HIV test, walking out on a mortgage, the sordid affair. I think I chose what I thought was safe, dependable, easy. On the surface my marriage was ‘ perfect ‘ but I think I should have chosen the guy who was over the top madly in love with me and passionate about the things in life that really do matter. Character, integrity, equality, living an honest life.

    • Are you sure you weren’t married to my husband at the same time? It is his cheatertwin it is

      Love those decisions they make and roll over you, those nice major changes

      Hey his 20 acre purchase can be divvied up, half yours you know, don’t tell me, is it tumble weeds and stuff????????????? Mine was looking for land like that, oh so he could go target practicing….ugh

      • Alas my beautiful foreclosed lot and home are up in the beautiful Sierras. Oak trees. Deer. Turkey. And lots of Lakes. New Melones. Tulloch. Hogan. Beautiful country. Little Gold towns. If he weren’t there I’d move back. Lol

  • Tracy you need a slew of slogans for coffee mugs can you start a thread where we can put coffee mug slogans or a contest? oh one of us could win the chump pazazz that is so spelled wrong I need more coffee award

  • In my experience the worst environment is the corporate one, they are all so up themselves, full of false importance and really believe they are special. There’s a certain breed of woman surrounding them, who buy into all the crap and it basically becomes a love in. Even my POS admitted it was all self indulgent bollocks but to be honest they love it , all the attention and ego stroking. Plus it’s all done behind closed doors, only accessible with a company pass. A cheater’s paradise. Yet many of these dreadful people are highly paid and qualified professionals, despite the fact they are actually a bunch of emotionally retarded tossers. Probably explains the credit crunch, they were all too busy shagging each other to notice the world economy going down the drain. I would laugh but it actually isn’t funny!

    • Olesammie,
      I totally agree with you. The more successful my ex became in the corporate world the worse it became. His boss would travel with him all over the world and fund his
      escort habit much to my horror after discovering the seedy details. Prior to knowing
      I felt uneasy with his corporate co-worker buddies. Sometimes I felt like we were selling our soul to the devil for the almighty dollar. I think the business environment
      welcomes a boy’s club mentality. I do think that a moral person would walk away from that environment rather than ruin a family just for the acceptance of a disordered boss and a lofty title. As I am realizing as I struggle through this that it was
      his choice not mine to behave this way. It doesn’t lessen the pain but hopefully in time it will subside. Wishing you luck and better days to come.

    • I trust ME. Not sure I ever want to trust another with my life’s work, assets, and savings. I think all those contemplating a future marriage need to have a prenup specifically addressing assets, property, plans for their children’s future (college costs, extracurricular activities), etc. with a pro rata sharing plan to be updated yearly. I hate that I lost my property (house and land) because somebody’s dick wanted a new hole.

  • Add my ex to the list. Endlessly bleating about what a good Christian he is, how he tries to be “just like Jesus.” Spouts off about his “duties as a Christian father.” Goes out of his way to help others, to be Mr Wonderful, fun, nice, supportive. Says he is here on a “mission from God to stamp out bullying.” Has some sort of YouTube talk show where he yammers on about how he never lets a single negative thought into his head, and counsels others on how they can be inspired and motivated by his example of “following his dreams.” Presents himself as a total family man, loving and devoted to his son (and at one time, to me, his wife.) Used to be a successful professional businessman, was well-liked in our community.

    Reality: he is now basically a bum, working under the table and moving place to place. I have never heard of anyone who cheated and lied as much as he did. Still pretending his endless gay cheating was just a “phase” that is over now. Mr Family Man owes me over $38K in child support, and he just petitioned to pay even less. Mr Wonderful Father recently told our son how “disappointed” he is that son is Jewish (I am Jewish, ex is Christian) and how he “feels sorry for Jews” and has “never known a Jew not on antidepressants.” Then demanded son apologize to HIM when son got angry and refused to speak to ex for a week or two. Talk about bullying!

    I could go on and on about how my ex leads a double life and always has, but most of you know my story. These twisted cheaters make me sick.

    • Seriously, here on a “mission from God. Does your husband think he is one of the ‘Blues Brothers”?. I am shaking my head.

      What is with the projection of their crap onto their kids, my STBX is the same with our eldest. Unfortunately I have come to discover that our son now 15 has been playing marriage police on my behalf for at least three years and has confronted his father on several occasions. I was unaware of this till recently. When ever son showed disrespect towards his father STBX would try and blame it on Gluten, (there is a know intolerance in the family) and would always be demanding an apology from son for all sorts of random stuff, which I though was odd at the time as Son has never shown me the disrespect he has shown his father. But I now understand that my sons intolerance was of his fathers behavior not of what he was eating. I have often watched my STBX size up against our son when ever he would defy him and now I have come to know that in the past STBX has physically bullied our son into staying quiet. STBX is not a big man and 15 year old son is now taller than his father at just under 6ft. That shit doesn’t work anymore and I have not insisted son maintain a relationship with his father. And he sucks at building that bridge on his own. As Son can see straight through him.

  • “So today’s question is — was there a big disconnect between your cheater’s Public Face and their private fuckupedness? Or were they always kind of an obvious train wreck?”

    —Sadly, I fall into the second camp. My ex’s fuckupedness was like a Great White Cheater Shark swimming just beneath the surface; his fin was visible above the water and everything. I was just too co-dependent to notice that his was a grenade that was going to go off at any second.

    Hindsight is indeed 20/20….

    • Chris I love the analogy,
      Great White Cheater Shark swimming just beneath the surface; his fin was visible above the water and everything.

      YEP. as Chumps ‘Hindsight is indeed 20/20….’ I am hoping through the process to Meh, my foresight will be pretty close to 20/20 also

    • This is especially fitting for my ex as well because he was and probably still is obsessed with the movie “Jaws”. He would play it every night on our bedroom TV to help him fall asleep…disordered much?

      He was no eagle scout, boy scout or do gooder of any kind. He had a propensity to take the easy way out of everything and my mother pegged him (and his whole family) for being very entitled. Still, I married him. Of course you’re never smarter in your life than when you’re 20!

      All the signs were there which are perfectly visible with my 20/20 hindsight vision. Major.face. plant!

  • My XH is a surgeon. I think once he completed his training and became board-certified (he started an affair a few months thereafter), those accomplishments just fed into his narcissistic ego. He will go out of his way for patients and work extra long hours to be there for them (at least that’s what he told me, but, looking back, maybe he was just engaging in extramarital activities during those late nights) at the expense of spending time with his wife and kids. Patients, nurses, and secretaries adore him. He is the type of guy whom people immediately take to when they first meet him and say that he is a “really, good guy.” He can talk about almost any topic, be charming and humorous and make people feel like he has some connection with them.

    Sometimes his anger will show to the outside, if he thinks something’s unfair, and he can easily convince people that he is right through the force of his conviction. When a patient sued him once, he dug up all the dirt on his patient that he could and the patient’s lawyers that he could, and, I thought to myself, I would never want to be on the opposite side of him in a litigation, but I here I am, in a contentious divorce where he is the opposting party.

  • Mine owns his own business and used to tell me how honest he was with his clients. Too bad he couldn’t be honest with me while carrying on a year long affair behind my back. They been together over a year and a half since he left me and now they are getting married. I don’t understand why he has to get married. They are living together. I don’t see the emergency. Is this a narc thing?

  • I had no idea. Many, STILL have no idea…. Our first year in college, he declared his love for me. I gently declined. During the 20 years that we remained friends, since high school, we would often visit each other in the different cities we each moved to. He never made a pass, was never inappropriate in any way, although I knew he was still attracted to me. When he came to me to declare himself again 23 years later he had already separated from his wife, moved into an apartment, and filed for divorce. I thought this was a man of integrity and character. He works hard at creating “Mr. Integrity” all the while “Mr. Happy Ending”, “Mr. I-verbally-and-emotionally-and-physically-abuse-my children”, “Mr. I-beat-my-dogs”- is who he really really is. The reveal of each of these “Mr.’s” after we were married was shocking. It turns out I had no idea at all who this man is. I’m just grateful I got out of it. I still fight for the sweet souls that are my Step-Daughters that still live within his realm of terror, entitlement, rages, selfishness and neglect.

  • My cheater was a boy scout and he had a great upbringing by two non-divorced, non-cheating parents. My cheater was the one who got me to go to church on a regular basis. My cheater was honest and open. When I found out he was cheating on me, I called his parents and told them. To this day, my family doesn’t know about his adultery. I didn’t tell them because I tried to reconcile and I didn’t think they would ever view him in a favorable light ever again. My side of the family will be shocked when/if they ever find out the reason I am divorcing him. My in-laws were shocked when I told them. My father-in-law told my cheater that of all his kids (and he has 6) he would never have thought it would be my h to do something like this.

  • My ex would be so condescending about the homeless people and the people on welfare because – in his eyes – they were “abusing the system.” Anyone listening to his argument would think he was super strict and was all about putting in the hard work for a better future. Yes, there may be some people that abuse the system, but there are many others that legitimately need the programs to survive.

    Anyways, it was ironic because HE was a HUGE MOOCH! I paid the rent, I paid the utilities, I paid all the bills because he was “between jobs” more often that I can count! He even took advantage of unemployment benefits a couple of times while we were together, and promptly used that money to buy weed and cigarettes… Oh, and he gave a promotion to his mistress at work… I’m sure SHE put in a lot of “hard work.”

  • It’s funny how hypocritical cheaters can be without even realizing it or admitting to it. My XH would also rail against people on welfare or Medicaid because of their “entitlement mentality,” when having an extramarital affair is the epitome of acting out of a sense of entitlement!

    XH also thought that our children shouldn’t spend any time with my brothers because they weren’t good role models because, in XH’s eyes, they weren’t successful in their careers (i.e., didn’t make much $).

    • My husband is from another culture so perhaps that is the explanation, but he would tell me that my mother should not talk about how poor she was growing up in South and I’d say, these are her stories, this is her past. Why hide it? Americans don’t mind stories like that. He said it was degrading and makes her look bad. This from a man who probably earned less than $1,500 during the 8 years i supported him. Talk about degrading.

    • heh, I wonder if people who rail against “entitlement” when talking about the poor and the disables are actuallly projecting their own entitlement on someone else. I worked as a welfare caseworker for a few years after college and will tell anyone that people on public assistance have very hard lives–even those who are hiding income (which is actually pretty hard to do).

  • My ex was also an Eagle Scout. He’s an HR Director for a company. Yet he uses his work phone, computer and time to answer and post sex ads and send nasty pictures. Not particularly professional. I’m pretty sure he also paid a hooker for sex on his business trips to Alaska. (Oh, the things I am still finding out without wanting to.) But here’s the biggest discrepancy. Guy thinks he’s dad of the year. He’s on the Little League Board of Directors. Wonder what they’d do if they knew he was hooking up with strangers on Craigslist. Never mind about honesty, integrity and values…..I just got a blow job from a random dude this weekend. Don’t even know his name. But I’m awesome when I announce the home games.

    • Don’t you just love the cheater that has the social net working thing going on, they live to be involved in something and the more praise they get for their actions the more they want.
      in the last few years my STBX has been involved in
      The Committee for our local Christian Soccer club. When I found out what he had been up to I demanded he step down from this one, and that if he didn’t I would ensure it happened, he became all righteous and accused me of threatening him. I assured him it was no threat. And it wasn’t.
      The committee for the local combined churches Carols event. (he presided over this event two weeks after dday like nothing had happened.) I think the handsome young Catholic priest on the committee may have had something to do with it unbeknown to him.
      A leader at our sons scouts unit. Son was leading a younger group so of course STBX had to compete and prove his superiority.
      Preformed at the local Mayoral Prayer Dinner, has done so annually for years.
      anything to boost his profile.
      Being a lying cheating scum bag take a lot of effort to cover.

  • Sitting here in shock… didn’t realize there was such a pattern.

    XH – Eagle Scout. Catholic. Military member with TS+ clearance. Even his unit thought he was the go-getter to end all go-getters. Yet he beat me from the middle of my first pregnancy onwards – right up until time I finally got him arrested for it. Almost 10 years. Then he told me since he pled “no contest” he hadn’t really been convicted of battery.

    This is the same sweetheart who kidnapped my daughter, then had the cojones to tell me later that he really hadn’t after all. His reasoning? His then-gf was allegedly a “domestic abuse counselor”, and she thought since *I* was “abusing” *him*, she should help him obtain emergency custody of our child – under quite fraudulent circumstances. Fortunately the courts saw through it all and I got her back quickly. But I wasn’t making a lot of money at the time – and shenanigans like that are expen$ive.

    2ND X didn’t have the same sparkly credentials… but did have a nice, solid, caring Catholic family. Didn’t have a lot of friends… but I figured hey, extremely family-oriented, right? Turns out they were really a pack of wolves. After The Split, the 5X-sized 2ND X took up with a sweet-natured but terribly homely girl with severe self-esteem problems nearly 20 years younger. And succeeded in doing to her what they’d failed to do with me – they got her and her family to let *their entire family* move in with them. That divorce cost me $75K, but it was WORTH IT. I still shudder when I think that could have been me.

  • Oh, this is what was the hardest for me to come to terms with. I was completely clueless until shortly before DDay. Married for 22 years to someone who I would have called a feminist. Who I got down on my knees and thanked God for when we had daughters, because he would respect them and teach them to respect themselves. He taught Sunday School and how we raised our kids was very important to him until he imploded.

    Cut to shortly after DDay-after I found out about the many OW, prostitutes, and Craiglist hook-ups. I got to see the two-face-idness in action. He made a big deal about attending a charity event to help women who had been raised in brothels by prostitutes. Gave them our money, and his parents too. Sent articles to us, and impassioned emails about the importance of giving. Described the event to us in great detail when he returned. I later found pictures of him there with his new 25 year old OW (he was 42). He scares me now.

  • Yeah, mine was a Rock Star of sorts here in a small town. Gave lots of people jobs. Came from a good family. Always willing to lend a helping hand. Cried at sad movies. Wasn’t in to porn. I thought I’d won the lotto when I met him. Little did I know he’d been banging lots of his employees at work behind the scenes for years It was a good old boys club here and when I caught his banging his howorker his super religious boss told him that ‘no one cared as long as they were consenting adults.’ Guess I was ‘no one.’

    The same guy who cried at sad movies and at the news when soldiers got killed was the same guy who was completely unmoved when his wife cried hysterically and his grandchildren were heartbroken when he walked out the door.

  • A midwife … Yes! A midwife!!! I still shiver to think this deviant was lewdly satisfying his deviant ways all the while coming across as the sensitive man who loved to deliver babies… NO NO .NO OMG truly a wolf in sheepskin clothing !!! .. his depraved delight in sly cringeworthy and inappropriate Comments over time about different shape vaginas and detailed descriptions of swollen lactating breasts still make me shiver …
    He went on to start community houses for young people with acquired brain injury from road accidents and I found evidence of some young patients in sexual positions on his laptop. I had to ask him if he was fucking his patients!!! But of course he denied it with a look of horror that I would insinuate such things and make me ashamed of even doubting him. It’s only later that I uncovered his penchant for strange strange webcam transgender, males, teen website sex and of course the regular fuck buddies and affair partners … And even after exposure in MC was continuing with hooking up and affair!!!! This is the same twisted fuck who is now hellbent on suing me for defamation because i had the courage finally to out him to freinds and relatives…. so he punishes me for his sins and through his lawyers demands apology that i have made all this up and i am responsible as i have marred his perfect public persona
    Still reeling still reeling :((( I don’t know anymore how to hang in there I am exhausted.

    • Mia…WTF???!!! This guy should be registering as a sex offender! I quit going to male doctors YEARS ago. When I was young there were only male doctors at that time but I had enough weird experiences to know that things weren’t quite right a few times. I only go to women now and thankfully there are a lot of female physicians now days.

    • If he is abusing his patients in any way, you must report him to the appropriate authorities.

    • WhereisMia, this is extremely disturbing and it certainly sounds like your Ex sexually abused some brain injured kids. You showed a lot of courage telling people about it. I have only told two or three close people (my brother, my best friend and my daughter) that my Ex probably has child porn on his computers. I say probably because the morning after Dday while I was at work on one hour’s sleep, he was here at our house deleting madly – deleting all the password protected folders he had on there for years. 2 mos later I stumbled on a photo of a fully clothed young girl (12) in his folder of his precious family photos. He was 31 when she was 12 and he had mysteriously tagged the photo with this fact. For years while having sex w me he always said out loud, “you’re a hot little teenager!” over and over till he came.

      Through the fog of my heartbreak and trauma, I started to realize he is sick, then to think maybe it went beyond being sick to victimizing others. In particular, a young girl we knew, friends’ daughter, who he was sickeningly always hugging and picking up, and having her sit on his lap at gatherings, and letting her put her legs around his waist, which at the time it occurred always made me feel oddly jealous.

      So about a month ago I turned the pc over to a forensic computer specialist at a private investigation firm. I decided that if there was even a slight chance that he was a pedophile and grooming our friends’ daughter or worse, that I wanted objective experts to make the call to involve law enforcement. I am currently awaiting the results.

      I encourage you to do the same thing if you still have access to his pc(s), or any flash drives, external drives or cloud storage where he may have kept these things, because it will clear your consciensce and because it may protect another potential victim.

      There is, of course, the risk that other people will think you are crazy and just making up mud to sling at him (thus, the defamation accusations). But in your heart and your conscience you will know you did the right thing. In my case, if the forensics don’t find any evidence, I will still believe he is a sexual deviant because of the ample other evidence that was (literally) shoved in my face over the years.

  • I would tell everyone how lucky I was to have found a man like my husband. He used to seem like that awesome all around good, old, american, blue eyed guy. He acted kind and was well-mannered and people knew that if they needed him he would almost always say “yes”.. We had three daughters together and he would lecture them about how “BAD” lying was. He used to say, “You should never lie because you end up having to lie over and over to keep that lie up. So it is better to just tell the truth.” When my oldest daughter was 16 and she lied about something major, he took a belt to her and gave her 25 whips for lying on her behind. He also took the cheating radar off off himself throughout our marriage by saying how he couldn’t watch movies about cheating because it made him sick. He would bring up how his ex-wife cheated on him and how he would never want that pain for anyone else. This included lecturing to my sister about her infidelity in her marriage while counseling his friend who just got cheated on by his wife. So you see how much this was a shock on D-day March 25th. He was on 5 online dating web sites and I recently found out he posted his non-impressive “member” on Craigslist. He had multiple affairs and lied to the women saying he was single with no kids, telling them he had terminal illness, and how much he wanted to adventure with someone with the short life he had left….
    So my wonderful man that I used to admire and look up to turns out to be the biggest fraud and con I’ve ever had the displeasure of meeting. It makes all of us that knew him sick to our stomachs. He played the part for almost 8 years. Its so true that once that veil comes off, all you see is a pathological lying, adolescent with FOO issues and a personality disorder. I’m done and ready to breathe and live an authentic life with REAL people. Unfortunately, my two small kids have a little more ways to go.

    • Well, at least you knew he knew it was all terribly wrong, and he did it all anyway… because he told you (and many others) how wrong it all was, so you didn’t get sucked down the “he’s in a fog” rabbit hole, I bet.

      Sometimes–particularly on some of those pro-reconciliation sites that promote the idea of “the fog”–that’s the hardest thing to get through to people; they know what they’re doing, they know it’s wrong, they know it will hurt you, but the are deliberately doing it anyway. They’re not in a fog; you’re in a fog if you think they’re in a fog.

      • Couldn’t agree more about the fog piece, TimeHeals! Still very disillusioning and painful to discover a world inhabited with sociopaths even if one isn’t sucked into “the fog” limbo. And I agree that it truly is amazing and helpful to remind oneself about all the choices the cheater had to make in order to cheat. They add up quickly and paint a very clear premeditated picture.

    • Ah, the lying. I remember speaking to my exH … The only time the kids were ever really punished is when they knowingly LIED!
      Two PA, at least 1 EA, and years of denying any marital problems….

      The hypocrisy is astounding.

  • If you met my ex, you would think he was the nicest guy around. I’m sure OW thinks so. My friends describe him as a “really nice guy” except he cheats. Of course, that doesn’t make sense and they know it (they all hate him now) but I bet a lot of us here can identify with that description. I’m sure OW and her family (I heard they’re getting married – good luck to her) think he is the best thing since sliced bread. They don’t know yet he’s actually the bread knife …

    • I like the old saying, “if he cheats with you, he’ll cheat on you”. What exactly, do these affair partners think they’re getting?

      • Or my favorite “When you marry a man who cheats on his wife; well you’ve married a man that cheats on his wife”

  • Eagle Scout Fraud

    Haven’t read all previous entries, but, my STBX has been especially skilled at decimating the Scout Law. I seen him stand up in his snappy uniform at Scout events, and say the Scout Law, and am still surprised he doesn’t burst into flame.

    He shows up, in his Righteous Costume, to look like an involved dad for our son and the other people at Scouts, then he hops in his little car and scurries back to his lover and her boys… who he got involved in Scouting and used as a beard to hide his affair with their Mommy and fool their Daddy into thinking an Eagle Scout would never fuck his way into their happy family.

    His being an Eagle Scout was one of the things I most loved and respected about him. He gave me his Mom’s Eagle Mother pin when we were dating, and it meant a lot to me. However, I now know that an Eagle Scout is just a snapshot of a point in time, and has NO bearing on integrity or behavior for the rest of their life.

    My husband is an embarrassment to all Eagle Scouts who have lived their lives according to the real Scout Law. If he had any integrity at all, he would not show up to meetings pretending to be a moral model and leader of youth.

    Here’s his special version of the Scout Law:

    Boy Scout Law

    A Scout is:

    Trustworthy,
    (except for lying to my wife, family, son, co-workers, affair partner, relatives and pretty much everyone else in my life about having affairs, the extent of the affairs, and the duration of the affairs… conducted under the guise of helping my lover’s kids enjoy Scouts. Oh yeah, and lying about my porn habit.)

    Loyal,
    (I am loyal only to myself. My wife and family have been thrown under the bus for my convenience. I am currently loyal to my lover, who also threw her husband and children under the bus so our tru luv could flourish.)

    Helpful,
    (I help myself to ill-gotten gains, to my wife’s hard work, to her reputation for honesty, and to her constant praise and support while I was screwing her over and laughing at her with my lovers behind her back. She’s such a chump!!)

    Friendly,
    (I am friendly to all the women I meet online, I am friendly to my lover’s family after ignoring my wife’s family who made my life a dream for a decade, I am friendly to perfect strangers and really care what they think of me, while shitting on my wife, kids, friends, and family.)

    Courteous,
    (I am the most polite, Nice Guy ever! I turn on the charm, again, to perfect strangers and care deeply what they think of me even though I will never see them again. It’s so much easier to put out effort to be swell to people that will never know me well enough to see the dark chancre of my soul.)

    Kind,
    (I am kind… kind of a sick, manipulative, counterfeit ne’er do well.)

    Obedient,
    (I am obedient to my lover’s wishes, and I am obedient to my selfish desires. Other than that? Fuck you all.)

    Cheerful,
    (You know what? I’m not really very cheerful because my life is such a living hell all on account of that horrible bitch I married. It’s all her fault… why won’t she just give me her money so I can finally be happy??)

    Thrifty,
    (I have to be thrifty now because my wife doesn’t want to support me any more! Can you believe it? She should buy me and my lover a house on account of I worked really hard during our marriage, and even though I spent all that I earned on toys and gadgets while my wife worked and took complete care of the family… it’s not fair! She OWES me!)

    Brave,
    (I am brave: I am so brave I hire attorneys to harass my wife and try to browbeat her into giving up and giving me all her inheritance that I deserve! Because!)

    Clean,
    (I am into clean: clean out my wife’s bank accounts, clean out her investments, clean out her sense of worth. And I am really clean personally, manscaping my privates to delight my lover while telling my wife I didn’t want to be sweaty down there any more.)

    and Reverent.
    (Hell yeah, I’m reverent: I worship myself and my ability to justify my choices and punish, through my masterful passive/aggressive techniques, anyone who opposes anything I do.)

    • OMG ‘Boy Scout Law’

      laughed out loud and then got to CLEAN and bit my lip. EW my ex pulled that crap. EW, EW, EW! Dirty Yuk!

      And they pass it of with such conviction you don’t want to question it, mine would sulk if I was negative about him doing that. And then would refuse sex as I had hurt his feelings leaving me feeling guilty.
      Too Creepy for me.

    • mehsmerized, that is such a great post. mine was not an eagle scout but i can totally relate to how you feel about your Ex trying to extract money out of you after all you did for him.

  • Mine is on TV – a national personality (not in the U.S.).

    He is a bright, shining example of happy, energetic and positive on the outside while being a lying scumbag on the inside.

    Unfortunately, it makes life harder for me since he has everyone convinced of how wonderful he is and there must be something wrong with me.

  • And another thing…

    I believe my husband was molested as a Scout by one of the leaders, leaving him with deep unresolved issues, including his forbidden interest in other boys.

    Honestly? He’s a wreck. Thank goodness he left, I just wish I didn’t have such a big legal mess to clean up.

    That, and watching my son to try to keep him safe around all these other potential Eagle Scouts…

  • Oh yes. Mine is in the Army Reserve here in the UK. 2nd in command of his regiment and having an affair with another officer within the same unit. Her husband also used to be in the Reserve. We’ve socialised as couples over the last 10 years – kids know eachother through this. Eldest sons from both our marriages are at the same university and my husband got our son to take their son under his wing and show him around, make sure he settled in etc – got him to take a day off revising for his exams to show HER son around the university and dragged us all there so both families met up for the day – all the while my stbx and that woman were having an affair. Had to laugh when I came across these on the British Army FB page!

    “Core Values of British Army:
    Army life is based on six core values:
    Courage: Be brave enough to do the right thing, no matter what the circumstances
    Discipline : Set a good example and follow lawful orders
    Respect for others: Treat people as you would want to be treated
    Integrity :Be honest and never lie, cheat or steal
    Loyalty: Look after your mates and stick with them, even when the going gets tough
    Selfless commitment: Put the team, your mates and the mission before yourself”

    So Courage; Discipline; Respect for Others; Integrity and Loyalty are clearly out of the window then!! Selfless commitment should probably read selfish commitment in his case.

    I found out in November and threw him out, she’s still with her husband and as far as I can tell, her husband has no idea it’s going on…as well as the 19 year old at university they also have a 4 year old!! My youngest has Asperger’s and Dyslexia – this has been hard on him. Although he never asks when he’ll see his dad next – says it all really – I’ve been a single parent in a marriage for the last 20 years.

    I’m starting think I’ve had a lucky escape as stbx’s behaviour is unbelievable. Barely keeps in touch with the boys, lying to his parents, etc etc. I’m just leaving him to it, he’s digging his own grave. Just sitting back and waiting to see what’s going to happen next… Thankfully my boys seem to be coping okay. I’m now doing okay most of the time – as long as I have no contact with him.

    This website is a great comfort. Good to know i’m not alone.

    • Jedi hugs Alison. You are not alone. Have you considered telling the OWs husband? Or would that make things worse for you?

      • Yes have considered telling the husband… But I suspect it will all come crashing around him anyway, and if I have nothing to do with it, then so much the better!

        He’s told his parents that her marriage had ended before their affair started !!! His mum is devastated anyway, if she knew that it would kill her. He’s conveniently forgotten that he took eldest son to a party at her house the week before I found out! Son has confirmed husband was there, & we can see from Facebook they’re still together! My son described stbx’s lying to his parents as “damage limitation”. Probably very accurate. Eldest son is very astute. He’s said he’s just sitting back & waiting to see what happens next, & described his dad as behaving like a teenager!

        Thankfully house is mine as I inherited it, so don’t have that worry hanging over me. Having a rough week this week, but in the main, I’m ok & can life is simpler without all his military, addicted to motorcycles, got to do things his way garbage!

  • Cheater ex *pretended* to be an assistant scoutmaster, so he could be with shmoopie on Wednesday nights. After a couple of months, he took “the boys” (her) on a week-long “camping” trip to Kauai! We lived on Oahu at the time… Didn’t have many pictures to show upon return, and NONE of them were of any Cub Scouts–funny that.

    And no, he never took ME island-hopping, though we were there 3 years! (That’s where he ditched me, btw.)

  • My ex-husband was a 3rd dan black belt in taekwondo at the time he walked out for his special friend. Three months after he left, he opened his own taekwondo school in the neighboring town. Ironically enough he has taught taekwondo for years under his master, and continues to do so to this day, teaching his students the five tenets of taekwondo. These tenets are courtesy, integrity, perseverance, self-control, and indomitable spirit. I guess, according to him (and his special friend, now wife and business partner) one gets to choose the parts of one’s life in which to employ integrity, perseverance, and self-control. Highly ironic. And disgusting.

  • Chump Lady (Tracy) if you see this, I’m just so baffled. Is this the way it’s always been and I was just oblivious? People treat the person they’ve vowed to love and protect worse than a stray dog and it’s blowing my mind.

    Is it new? Or is it much more common than ever before thanks to the internet (including Craigslist), viagra, and the ability to hide things with personal phones?

    If this is “how it is” then I’m surprised any of us every marry!

    • “People treat the person they’ve vowed to love and protect worse than a stray dog and it’s blowing my mind.”

      It seems a common thread–the cheater is all butthurt that *now* they have to sneak in order to have fun, so they blame their Chump for interfering, I guess. (shrug)

      It also seemed like exH would go out of his way to hurt me, while also going out of his way to please the Bitch–when it should have been the other way around. Twistedup fucks, indeed!

      F*ck ’em–good riddance!!!

    • I think the Internet and cell phones may make it easier to catch cheaters than in the past and to document what they are doing.

      So far no one has done any studies proving that men cheat at a higher rate than in the past. On the other hand, porn consumption is clearly way up.

  • I had a cheater police officer who seems to be highly respected in the community! He also owns a (ghetto) daycare. I saw his name appear recently for some kind of act of valor in a police newsletter for our city. I’m surprised there aren’t more stories about cheating cops on this thread. There seem to be a TON of them, and they have tons of opportunity to meet people to hook up with, all while maintaining an appearance of nobility.

    • My ex was a POS cheating cop. Like so many others on this thread, he had a double life. He was quiet, laid back, pretty reserved, didn’t get angry or raise his voice. He coached rec football for a while and worked with special needs kids before he became a cop. Not exactly the kind of person you’d suspect of being a pathological liar. I’m pretty sure that he met most of the women he cheated on me with while he was on duty. Interestingly enough, most of the women were exactly the kind you wouldn’t want to associate with when you work in law enforcement- junkies, criminals, women w/ multiple baby daddies, etc. How he still works in law enforcement, I don’t know. He’s a turd, plain and simple, but I take comfort in the fact that it will all catch up with him eventually- I believe it. Plus, he has to deal with the shame that his current gf / baby momma is a junkie that was arrested several times by his co-workers and they know it. I work in LE as well, and I know there are many cops who cheat. But I also know there are many who don’t. It’s the choices they make, not the job, that dictate their behaviors.

  • My recent ex is almost done with his PhD in leadership studies. A man that can’t be honest with himself, any one of his five lawyers, or our children actually gets paid to teach college students about interpersonal skills, trust, communication and authentic leadership.

  • ML…I don’t think all people treat their spouses this way. I just think somehow we ended up with these people. I know lots of good men and women who have been loyal and faithful to each other. I know for a fact that not every man is like my ex husband. I just have to believe that.

    • I know this is true. In know the topic of fixing the picker has been hashed and rehashed, that’s the other part of the equation to figure out.

  • It is fascinating how it seems that some people go through life with intention, loving and respecting others and working hard to have successful relationships while others seem to destroy the lives they are leading. My ex had a great life but seemed determined to fuck it up. His best friend, who lived many states away, used to call the house all the time. At all hours to catch up. I was always there to answer the phone. Ex was never home but the guy and I knew each other well (we had grown up together) and he made an effort to know how we were doing. How the kids were, what I was up to, etc. then he would always ask me why my ex was out late and why it didn’t bother me that he was always away. I thought nothing of this till later. I was trusting and independent and I was sure my husband would never cheat. It took me a long time to figure it out, but I think his best friend knew and was trying to warn me. In those last few years my ex actually used to talk out pretend scenarios with me when we were relaxing together after a hard day’s work. For example, ” I am going to divorce you because it will be easier to send our kids through college.” Or the off hand comment, “you are going to make me cheat!” this after I commented on a beautiful woman, or “I am going to marry someone who owns a club!” And then he actually did those things. What amazes me is that I truly didn’t see it coming. Until dday. I have not spoken to our old friend since but I am curious now. I wonder what he knew. My ex sobbed during our wedding -I did too:(- I just think he always told himself he could not have what he truly wanted with a wife and family…. It’s crap to believe you are done living even with grown up responsibilities. I want a relationship with someone who recognizes how fragile and rare love is and whose behavior says, ” Life is too short to fuck around”. I don’t believe my ex is happier. Five years after blowing up his family and he is still saying he made the best decision ever. Uh, No, I don’t believe best decisions are made by jumping into an affair partner’s bed. I thank Chump Nation for being so supportive and honest. It is a good thing to trust and sharing our stories can only make us stronger. I know we will take the lessons we’ve learned and carve ourselves out better lives. I learn something new here every day and I am thankful for that. “The unexamined life…” Yeah, I think it’s this that separates us from our cheaters.

  • The Jackass wasn’t an Eagle Scout. He is highly intelligent, with a sharp analytical mind and a very wide ranging set of real-world skills. He can build or fix almost anything and do it as well or nearly as well as a professional. Over the years, he has used these skills to do lots of favors for people (including me) and not just women. But even in my “heavy spackle phase,” I noticed that there was lots of showing off involved with these favors. He would spend the time and do a great job, but it was all about exhibiting himself as a star. He would come home from work with stories about how so-and-so tried to do a job but couldn’t do it without breaking equipment or screwing up and then–he took over. He loved it when his brothers (who barely speak to him) would call for advice. He would run over to help and then complain about how they f***ed the job up, how they never wanted to do the job right, took short cuts, thought they knew everything. He quit job after job because he couldn’t get alone with the boss; he is always right. When we were together, he could barely tolerate a two-minute phone conversation with his mother; after his father died, he became, as he said, “the family patriarch,” and spent a lot of time squiring him mother around, being her “go-to guy” and getting ego kibbles about how great a son he is. I think in his case, he is only able to pull off the double life if he keeps the arena he is playing in small and controlled and if the person he is trying to fool is not smart. I caught him 7 weeks after he started up with Schmoopie on FB and I wasn’t living with him. Had his father not passed away, I would have confronted him 3 weeks after he started. As smart as he is, when he devalues his partners as part of his pattern, he positions himself to underestimate their abilities. His ex-wife devastated him financially, and lied to Family Court, bankruptcy court, and his family to do it. I might have seen all of this had I not been convinced that all he needed was me to help him turn it around. So in this case, he was a man who is truly intelligent, smart, and talented in multiple areas but whose belief in his superior intelligence and his need to show off trip him up every time.

    • LovedaJackass, that’s my cheating ex to a T, as well, always bragging to everyone how he could do things better. Narc. My therapist’s phrase keeps coming to mind, “You’ve got to see him for who he really is.” It’s his own recognition of who he really is that compels him to pump himself up constantly to everyone, seeking more and more adulation.

  • Mine helped everyone except me and the kids. He lived his life as he pleased and made it hard for me to run the household or, heaven forbid, visit a friend. He thought I should be fine living by his rules and having no rights. He switched the kitchen drawers and utensils to suit himself although he didn’t use them. He said we could only afford margarine and not butter for our dinner guests but he spent unlimited amounts on drinking with his buddies at the beer parlour. I wasn’t allowed to open a Coke from the pantry because I would be ‘drinking the mix’ and that was a horrible thing for me to do. He had incredibly strict rules for me and kept my friends away and he scared potential friends away (like the wives and girlfriends of his friends) and now I see that was most likely because he was afraid we’d compare notes. He hung out with cops and ambulance crews and those guys made the rules everyone had to live by and they decided who to protect and who to marginalize. He knew who to suck up to and it was worth it to be in the power wielding crowd because they had his back no matter what he did to me: he had enough power points accumulated that he could openly and publicly stalk and torment me without repercussions except for losing a few friends who didn’t matter because they had no influence in his circle of top dogs. Thank goodness their influence didn’t extend much past the borders of our District and they had to be wary with the local judge so as not to alert him to their shenanigans. They were dreadfully embarrassed to be found out in Court, and it was there that my life was saved.

  • A narc dar ? Why yes I have one of those and she only is on stage 180 days a year. In those 180 days there is at least 2 to 20 dramas a day. Who’s parent is crazy or what teacher is fucking what teacher. To be honest I have never seen anything like it in my life. It’s sick.
    Wait sorry I am wrong . What she puts herself in the middle of is sick. It’s a job, yes an important one but holy bat shit it just FUELS the look at me I am on a stage & I sparkle.
    I know lots &lots of men &women who work in that 180 day a year profession & they don’t go through any of what your daily drama is. Then again they are not as sparkley as you.

    • Frauds – oh yes! Mine got me to buy a car. He chose it and everything. All I had to do was sign the bank loan and pay for it. I had to car pool to work and he drove it down immediately to register it in his name and told me about it when I got home from work. When I left him three years later and took the car he reported it stolen.

      • MMargaret mine loved spending my money on a 70 inch tv, leather recliners, our house renovation, etc. and NOW said that 50% of the net equity wasn’t “enough” and that I was “snookering” him… though accountants I hired said he only paid 11% of the equity in the house. IT’S NEVER QUITE ENOUGH FOR THEM.

        • For sure it’s never enough. I worked myself into the ground with two babies and him and a full time well paying job – in my sleep deprived world I had moments of clarity and wondered why I didn’t have a cent for myself. It’s like marriage made him the owner of me and everything I had or could get for him. This once was marriage according to law: once married, everything a woman had belonged to her husband and she was not entitled to any of her wages either. Our marriage was all that, and here I was an independent-minded woman with a good job. The china cabinet I wanted he refused to let me get and I bought it anyway after making a list of things over the years that he got (a long list), and the things I got (nothing). Boy was he mad! My best friend was on to him from Day 1, but then I believed we shared everything in our marriage. Ha! He had the nerve to humiliate me publicly and physically force me to do what he wanted in private and he really didn’t care who I told because he cooked up stories that had the cops and the rest of his pals believing I deserved the bruises. He thought he owned me and everything I had and his powerful buddies backed him up. In the end, he got everything I had. He couldn’t have done it without his friends the cops adding to his negotiating power (by standing back and letting him do what he wanted to me). In later years, I had a dream about them stealing everything I had and I shamed them into giving it back and then I got out of town before he could find out and come after me!

  • I don’t know if I’d want to get involved with someone in higher education again. Seems to be all kinds of opportunities to cheat. With students AND coworkers. Just saying.
    Law enforcement too by the letters here. I dated a cop once and I could tell he was predator material. He’s still on dating sites to this day and has been for 12 years. Doesn’t post a picture but I know it’s him.

  • Moving Liquid – you said it well. This post today is incredibly disturbing and even frightening. So many horror stories about deceitful people. It’s mind blogging to read so much sadness in finding out the truth of who we chose to marry! Characters who seem nice, friendly, trustworthy, blah blah – my husband was very much one of those. I sure did not see it coming, like most of you either.

    The day I married my husband, I discovered he was a complete control freak on our honeymoon. Had not seen that while dating. (I wanted a new bathing suit and he said no) He always held tight control of the money and I see that now as a way to keep domination over me. Now I see that in so many things he did to me. And, somehow, he was able to keep this good woman for 35 yrs.

    I am finally feeling like I’m SO glad I got rid of this freak. I didn’t know he was a freak – I used to idolize his intelligence, his humor, good looks, success..blah…but he had a bad habit of grandiosity. Always bragging that he knew more about this market or that market more than anybody else.
    Never figured that out and it always embarrassed me, but now I see it as an extreme part of his Narcissism.

    Reading all your stories makes me think it is going to be damn tough, especially at my advanced age, to ever meet anybody that is pure, like they show to the world. Pure to me. I just don’t think my chances are good – I’m probably going to meet one of your exes! Yiiiiiiii! Keep me out of this cesspool, please – whatever higher up is looking after me.

  • The Ex is a financial planner (specializing in retirement planning, mind you) who owns two businesses. I had his businesses audited during proceedings, since he was good at keeping financial things away from me.
    Guess how much he has saved for retirement??? 😉
    Guess how much debt he is in??? 😉
    Guess who hasn’t paid his taxes in 2 years??? 😉

    Guess who doesn’t know ANY of this shit??? 😉

    Me? I walked away with all the money there was, the house (which has a considerable amount of equity in!), and my retirement accounts fully intact….oh, and 1/20th of the debt….;)

    Anyone need a referral for a financial planner??? :0

  • My cheating, disrespectful, uncommunicative, lying unethical, full of character flaws darling soon to be Xh, says a prayer before he eats his meals, used to go to church and indeed made it up to EAGLE SCOUT. I could vomit when I see him trying to convince my 11 year old son to join the pack earning merit badges for good citizenship and character strength and telling him proudly how he made it up the ladder. Luckily my son is not convinced. I really had to chuckle when I read this thread „My Cheater is an Eagle Scout“ LMAO – Hypocrite is his middle name, oh wait, it’s his first name.

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