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A Serial Cheater’s Relationship “Advice”

I'm not definedPeople send me a lot of Crazy Cheaters in the News sort of stories. Not surprisingly, most of them are written by cheaters, trying to justify cheating. They let us know how edgy and sophisticated philandering is, or on the flip side, how sad and damaged they are (but still how much they enjoy what they’re doing).

Common denominator? Don’t judge!

I understand why news outlets run this crap — it’s total click bait. Who doesn’t enjoy a sordid sex story? I know I do.

But I do wonder over time if this kind of “everyone is doing it — and it’s cool!” discourse doesn’t erode the common sense notion that cheating is, duh, wrong. It’s cheating. You’d be appalled at the guy taking money from the till, or hiding aces up his sleeve, or cribbing his neighbor’s answers for the entrance exam. But a quick naughty on Craig’s List? Carry on!

Recently an alert chump sent me this article: “I’m a Female Serial Cheater, And Here Are 6 Things I’ve Learned About Relationships.”

I know. She actually supposes she’s been in a relationship. As opposed to just hustling poor schmoes for kibbles. But being a grandiose DSM-manual sort of narcissist, she’d like to impart some wisdom on us all. I’m sure you won’t be surprised to learn We’re Doing Relationships All Wrong.

The 6 tenets of her faith?

1. The less “online” your relationship is, the better.
2. Sex is wonderful, and should be enjoyed like food.
3. Monogamy is not the ultimate form of love, nor is it only related to sex.
4. The most important relationship you have is with yourself.
5. You can cheat on someone without cheating them.
6. Life is long, and should be lived well.

At first I thought, oh boy, do I even write about this? Do I match wits with a sociopath? (You can cheat on someone without cheating them? is up there with It’s not kidnapping unless I say it’s kidnapping! or They’ll never miss that $500K from their pension fund! Embezzlement is such an ugly word!) But then I thought — oh why not? This is just standard shit cheaters say 101.

1. The less “online” your relationship is, the better.

My aversion to internet activities is not limited to the lovers I take — every kind of relationship I have is as real-life as possible. I avoid social networking, I text very little, call when needed, and always make a point to see people in person when possible. My boyfriend and I met at a dance class, and never became friends on any kind of social network, because maintaining a certain amount of distance and mystery is important to me. And frankly, whether with someone you’ve been seeing for years or someone you’ve just met, it heightens every pleasure. When we see each other (as with a lover I might meet up with on a business trip), we’ll just give a restaurant and a time, and not speak until we meet. Our contact is intense, deliberate, and entirely in-person. We touch while we talk, and we look each other in the eye. The less you can do via technology, the better.

Ostensibly this “less online” thing is to show us how authentic she is. “Our contact is intense, deliberate, and entirely in-person.” Yet, “distance and mystery” is important! — of course it is. Less chance of getting caught. How dumb do you think we are?

 2. Sex is wonderful, and should be enjoyed like food.

See, that’s the problem with mere mortals with morals. We don’t enjoy enough. We aren’t gourmands. We probably eat the same tuna casserole night after night after night, unaware of all the foie gras and artisan cheeses. Boyfriends are like your “favorite restaurant dish,” but why would you order the same thing?

Apparently we also need reminding that “sex is wonderful.” I. Never. Knew.

I want to dispel the notion here that a relationship that is sexually healthy will not result in cheating — to the contrary. My relationship with my boyfriend is intensely sexual, and when we’re together, I think of (and need) no one else. We make love often and are constantly exploring one another in new, exciting ways. But we have been together for years, and while his love stands far above any other I might have, it’s not the only love there is to be had. He is my favorite dish, and I can order him each time I’m at the restaurant, never tiring of his flavor. But the world is vast and delicious, and I want to try as many dishes as possible while I’m here. My explorations only enhance my desire for him, as well. I taste something unfamiliar but thrilling, and then I yearn for the comforts of my favorite dish. I would never deny myself strawberry simply because I prefer chocolate.

People are just like ice cream flavors!

3. Monogamy is not the ultimate form of love, nor is it only related to sex.

First of all, I have never believed in monogamy, because I don’t think that humans are built for it in any meaningful way.

But you’re totally cool letting your boyfriend operate by that set of monogamy rules. It’s okay if HIS existence isn’t “meaningful,” but you’re a special sausage — so your existence must be.

But even if I did, I know in a very personal way that one can be monogamous in many more ways than sexual. With my boyfriend, I am completely monogamous in intellect, in emotion, and in true intimacy. I want to have his children, and wake up beside him when I’m 80, and buy a house along the Mediterranean to drink wine in and watch the sunset. In that way, there is only one man in my life, and I have no interest in another.

Yes, you have no interest in other men that can’t offer you houses on the Mediterranean. You like to fuck them, but you’re only unfaithful to the man you want to have children with.

Yeah, that makes total sense. Along with “one can be monogamous in many more ways than sexual.”

the practice or state of being married to one person at a time.
the practice or state of having a sexual relationship with only one partner.
ZOOLOGY — the habit of having only one mate at a time.

Hey, monogamy can be whatever you say it is because you’re special. I’m special too. Today I’m defining monogamy as “People who wear madras trousers on golf courses.” I’m not monogamous either!

I can know someone’s body without wanting to know them as a person, and I go into my affairs knowing that it is for the physical pleasure, and the personal affirmation. They can be fun, and new, and thrilling, but they don’t compare to the real monogamy that I have at home. And being able to “look in the window,” so to speak, only affirms my knowledge that my boyfriend is my true partner.

Yes, as long as you don’t know people as a person, it’s not cheating! Do you know anyone as a person? Are you a person?

4. The most important relationship you have is with yourself.

Yes, you aren’t defined by your relationships. Got it. Except the relationship you have with yourself and the last time you asked yourself about your relationship, yourself said “We’re AWESOME!” and “Have you lost some weight?”

When I take a lover, I do it for myself. I find it empowering and exciting, and it makes me feel deeply alive. It’s a story that I have entirely to myself, a sun that rises and sets in my own mind. Part of the reason I seek affairs instead of an “open relationship” is because I profoundly enjoy the privacy and the intimate knowledge I share only with myself. I love myself in a way that is as visceral as the love I have for my partner, or a close friend. I want to be good and generous with myself, and indulge the desires I have, while indulging those of others. At the end of the day, I am deeply satisfied with the love story I have cultivated in me.

“I profoundly enjoy the privacy and the intimate knowledge I share only with myself.” You mean the intimate knowledge of your cheating that you’re keeping from your boyfriend, right? Heady little power trip, isn’t it?

Did you see this news article that narcissists tell you exactly who they are? Made me think of you.

5. You can cheat on someone without cheating them.

It is true that I sleep with other men and my boyfriend is unaware of it. There is no getting around that, and I’m not afraid to say it (to myself, of course). I am not in denial about what I do, and I quite enjoy it when I think of it. But in practice, in our relationship, I cheat my boyfriend out of nothing. I am a giving and thoughtful partner, and an eager lover, and am as concerned with his needs and desires as I am with my own. No matter what I’m doing at any moment — even if I’m in bed with the Argentinian photographer Matias whose body makes me feel lightheaded — if my partner calls me, I will catch the next plane home to be at his side. His priorities are my own, and my lovers only invigorate and ignite the passion I have for him. I think of myself, in some ways, as his loyal Queen who happens to have a few cicisbeos. At the risk of sounding conceited, I believe that he is the happiest coupled man he knows, and it is my pleasure to know that he wants for nothing. My lovers are taken on my own time, and never interfere with what we have.

What a fabulous creature you are! A queen! With Argentinian photographer lovers named Matias. And you jet from lover to lover!

God, I feel so dull and unworthy. I’m married to a middle-aged lawyer named Paul. But hey, he has all his hair and he buys me breakfast tacos. It’s not a plane ticket to Buenos Aires, I know. Are you risking “sounded conceited”? Heavens no. You sound deranged. Like some imaginary Danielle Steele character, instead of the banal, muffin-topped, sociopathic housewife you probably are.

6. Life is long, and should be lived well.

I suppose I’m lucky, in that I’ve never felt particularly constrained by society’s ideas of what a relationship should be. I am not embarrassed or ashamed of my sex, and I never have been. But as I’ve grown, I’ve learned more and more that life is far too long (and too beautiful) to be tediously wasted doing what you believe is “right,” and not what works for you. There are many years ahead of me of travel, love, exploration, and evolution. I will have children, and meet new people, and learn things I did not know yesterday. And I intend to do all of it while being happy, fulfilled, and wonderfully free of judgment. I wish you all the same.

I believe that’s what Putin said as he annexed the Crimea: “I’ve never felt particularly constrained by society’s ideas of what a relationship should be.” Followed by: “I’ve learned more and more that life is far too long (and too beautiful) to be tediously wasted doing what you believe is ‘right,’ and not what works for you.”

If seizing a Ukrainian beach resort feels right, by God, TAKE IT! Life is too beautiful to do without. 

The voices in my head told me to tell your boyfriend you’re cheating. They also told me to steal your purse, set fire to your car, and give your pets to people I deem nicer than you.

It works for me.

I hope you’ll be as “wonderfully free of judgment” for me as I am for you.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Well this is disturbing when you think about it:

    < I want to dispel the notion here that a relationship that is sexually healthy will not result in cheating — to the contrary. My relationship with my boyfriend is intensely sexual, and when we’re together, I think of (and need) no one else. We make love often and are constantly exploring one another in new, exciting ways. But we have been together for years, and while his love stands far above any other I might have, it’s not the only love there is to be had. He is my favorite dish, and I can order him each time I’m at the restaurant, never tiring of his flavor. But the world is vast and delicious, and I want to try as many dishes as possible while I’m here. My explorations only enhance my desire for him, as well. I taste something unfamiliar but thrilling, and then I yearn for the comforts of my favorite dish. I would never deny myself strawberry simply because I prefer chocolate.

    People are just like ice cream flavors!

    What do you do with food? You “consume” food. And then you shit it out. I think her metaphor is probably apt but needs expanding.

      • It’s only an issue if somebody has a problem with it, right?

        She apparently has no problem with it, and if anybody else does… not her concern… apparently.

    • And isn’t that the tasty “shit sandwich” her boyfriend has to eat?

    • I zeroed in on “He is my favorite dish, and I can order him each time I’m at the restaurant, never tiring of his flavor.”

      Translated: He is there to provide me kibbles. I like his kibbles a lot, but the best part is that I know he’ll always give me kibbles.

      When I want cake, I go fuck someone else because who doesn’t like cake?

    • Well, I will agree with the first sentence. My marriage involved a lot of intense sexuality, and he still cheated.

      • “Well, I will agree with the first sentence. My marriage involved a lot of intense sexuality, and he still cheated.”
        Same here, Patsy. Our sex life was never a problem in the marriage. Although when he was in the long-term affair with final OW, he wanted sex a LOT more than before he was with her. Creep.

        • Yes, my husband actually thanked the OW for the great sex he had with me. Sick.

      • That’s a perfect quote! Gosh she sounds like a horrible human being. I hope her BF finds out, and squashes her like the big, ugly, hairy spider she is! Ughhhhh

    • That’s at the heart of her rationale. People are things to consume. And her life is lived inside of her head. I actually agree that the most important relationship you have is to yourself, as how you see yourself in the world will determine how you relate to others. She sees herself as someone who “consumes” life, people and experiences.

    • Look I see women like you fighting for their lives in ICU everyday it’s like this don’t string anyone along in you escapades. Be honest that you like to explore let that other person explore that with you it keeps everyone safe

  • Just a few random thoughts….
    If she found out her boyfriend was cheating, it would probably destroy her.

    She’s full of shit.

    I’m wondering if the author is Dr. Tammy, or that other chick who is getting ready to release a book about “the new monogamy.” The ones who post their bullshit all over the cheating stories on Huffington Post. They think they know so much. But they are also full of shit. Basically, if you are in a relationship but you can fuck other people but there’s a “rule” that you just can’t kiss them or be in love with them, or spoon with them, well, you are an idiot. Who is full of shit.

    Sometimes I’m floored that cheaters can’t see just how narcissistic they are. But then, why would they, that’s the rub.

    • What makes you think they don’t know how narcissistic they are? What if they are good with being like that instead?

    • Your first thought it spot on in my opinion! Wonder if that author’s “favourite dish” is sampling something local while she’s whoring it up overseas.

  • That is disgusting! I could hardly stomach reading it! She obviously thinks she’s Gods gift to men! And she has no moral compass! Is that the life she wants for her imaginary children? She is a bug that needs to be squished!

    • I think she feels that she is God’s gift to the whole effing universe, actually.

  • That is some truly twisted logic… Makes my head hurt the double standard she implements with her boyfriend…An open relationship is not advisable, but at least honest. Unfortunately, I am pretty sure this was my STBXW’s thinking throughout her multiple relationships long distance and with neighbors.

    Not to excuse Putin, but he had to have Crimea strategically as Russia’s Navy is based out of there due to Russia’s lack of warm water ports…Point is this horrible cheater is much worse that Putin, at least he is applying some strategic logic to being an asshole. She just is an asshole for no good reason other than being more powerful and awesome than her unknowingly victimized boyfriend.

    • Oh but keep in mind..she is justified, because she is just do damn absolutely fabulous! Head and shoulders above the rest of us, you know.

    • This is what is so ridiculous about cheaters! They truly believe they are SO clever and winning – but the imaginary game they are winning has been slanted from “GO”.

      They’ve proven by choosing to lie and betray others, that they don’t have the natural courage, tenacity or cleverness to play and be successful at an honest, fair game.

  • At 47 I’m not sure to be frightened or delighted that people can still shock the hell out of me! Just when I think I can’t be surprised anymore, CL finds this gem. It’s so outrageous, it’s actually laugh out loud funny. It’s also pretty scary to think that people actually believe this stuff.

    I just so wish I could be there someday when someone uses her twisted logic on herself.

    “The voices in my head told me to tell your boyfriend you’re cheating. They also told me to steal your purse, set fire to your car, and give your pets to people I deem nicer than you.”

    “It works for me.”

    Somehow chump lady, I don’t believe it would work for her! Just Wow!

  • My god… That was the most self-righteous, narcissistic, vomit-inducing, egomaniacal load of CRAP I have ever seen. I’ve seen some huge loads before but jeeezus this woman is in the running for most full of herself pile of pure selfishness in the universe. What the fuck did I just read?!

  • This chick either couldn’t get a boyfriend in high school and/or got screwed over badly by someone early on. She has no idea what it is to love someone or be in a relationship. Here’s to hoping someone enlightens her poor boyfriend before he catches something.

  • She’s so special.
    Hell she’s being so honest.

    Bull shit!

    When D Day comes she won’t sound special. She’ll sound like a common cheater.

    We only kissed, I didn’t mean it to happen, it was only the one time, it meant nothing…
    Did I leave anything out?

    • “When you attended to your other obligations I felt neglected! I didn’t WANT to do it! I felt I had no recourse!”

      • “I wasn’t out LOOKING for him/them! I don’t know how it happened!”

        • LOL…they never know how it happened. Oh, you just suddenly happened to find yourself naked in a compromising position with the AP but you have absolutely no idea how you got from point “A” to point “B”? Oh, please!

        • ““I wasn’t out LOOKING for him/them! I don’t know how it happened!””
          Man oh man do I hate those words! I got that from STBX asshole! It happened because you’re a Class-A dickhead fuckwipe who decided that he was entitled to do what he wants, consequences be damned. You weren’t out looking for the OW? Funny how the higher power above just floated her down on a cloud, right?

            • My XW’s line: “The chemistry became sexualized”. See, it was nothing she did. Hanging out in bars and drinking with strange men played no role.

  • What a strange little screed. What was the point of it? She wants the world to be aware of how wonderful her self-love is?

    The food analogy annoys me tremendously. This line: “But the world is vast and delicious, and I want to try as many dishes as possible while I’m here” — implies that those of us who don’t cheat and lie are eating the same beige gruel day in and day out.

    Hasn’t she heard of having a discriminating taste? I’m not shoving every damned dish that’s presented to me down my throat at the same time like the world is ending. I prefer to savor and enjoy what I have.

    • Bit I think like that too lilybart. That’s why I’m fat and will probably never have sex again!

  • “I’ve never felt particularly constrained by society’s ideas of what a relationship should be.”

    Almost word for word the same sentence I found in my ex’s journal about his relationship with his married coworker.

    • And they’ve “never felt particularly constrained by” their partners’ understanding of what their relationship was either, I expect.

      Golden Rule Downgrade Alert

      Old Rule: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
      New Rule: Expect others to treat you better than you treat them.

      • My ex’s actual statement was “I don’t have to follow society’s rules. I can follow my own rules.”

      • TH, you took the words right out of my mouth! “New Rule: expect others to treat you better than you treat them.” I just filed for divorce from my serial cheater who is appalled that I filed and am not divorcing him on his terms. I’m NC with him but this is the line that has been in my head the next time I have to see/speak to him and he whines about how I am the one making things ugly between us. I mean, hello, does he really believe his serial cheating and lying didn’t make thing ugly between us at all?? Geez!

        • I don’t know whether people like your cheater and others like him believe the things they say or not. What I know is that what they say is designed to manipulate the people in their lives and make our “reality” conform to the reality they prefer to see in their own heads. As long as the goal is manipulation, the question of whether in some dim corner they know they are screwed up, lying, and wastes of human space doesn’t matter. Normal people can’t reason with them, expect empathy or compassion or make contracts like marriage with them because they can’t do reciprocity.

        • Yes, my STBXH called the divorce petition “aggressive”, because, how dare I not just slink away and not request child and spousal support after giving up my career to support his and being SAHM for all these years.

  • I wonder what she would do, if she found out her boyfriend has been doing the EXACT same thing, throughout their whole relationship? I have a feeling she will be singing a different tune then…

    • One can only hope that he is the author of some clickbait article titled “9 Reasons I Cheat on my Clueless Girlfriend” and “10 Ways to avoid the ‘I Have Herpes’ Conversation’.”

  • I didn’t read the whole thing because its the type of I’m-So-Highly-Evolved-Above-Everyone-Down-There crap. If she is so great, why make an “anonymous” post? Oh wait. She has “secret” relationships. That means she’s cheating.

    My real question, then, is if she is okay with it, why not just have an open relationship?
    Because it is cheating if one party expects monogamy while the other wants to spread around. The lying and secrecy makes someone a cheap bastard, not necessarily wanting multiple sexual partners. I’m also not down with people who jeopardize their partner’s health. Selfish, careless, and irresponsible.

    Finally, what is up with the “King” [sic] and “Queen” [sic] bull crap? (BTW, they’re not proper nouns!) You can’t treat someone like a “king” when you are mistreating them.

    (Sorry for any typos. I’m just tired and there has been a lot of stupid on the interwebs this week).

    • “My real question, then, is if she is okay with it, why not just have an open relationship?”

      Because then she wouldn’t be one-up in the relationship. She wouldn’t be in control. She’d have to communicate, compromise, have insight into herself and empathy for others. She isn’t capable of that.

      • Because then she’d have to share her marvelous true love with someone else….maybe lots of someone elses…She’s the only one special enough to have him.

        Someone is bound to recognize who she is by her tone and clue him in, don’t you think? Gads, I hope so.

        • So, she writes this article extolling serial cheating so the masses will realize what they are missing and, perhaps, partake.
          But , she does not disclose this to her true love, so he is left missing out.
          If it so great and she cares so much for her boyfriend , why not educate him so his life can be filled with comparable enjoyment.
          Wouldn’t it seem natural and logical to want as much for your true love?
          This is the same with a cheaters. It is as if they feel we betrayed folks A’ed not worthy or would not appreciate variety like they do.
          Hell, I know I was more physically attractive than both my Xws and had a lot of overtures from women over the years. And,seeing my XW without her clothes on was no big deal, just like I expect seeing me naked was no big deal for her.
          But, despite the sameness eI was not out looking to
          Upgrade like she was.

    • She answered that:

      “When I take a lover, I do it for myself. I find it empowering and exciting, and it makes me feel deeply alive. It’s a story that I have entirely to myself, a sun that rises and sets in my own mind. Part of the reason I seek affairs instead of an “open relationship” is because I profoundly enjoy the privacy and the intimate knowledge I share only with myself. I love myself in a way that is as visceral as the love I have for my partner, or a close friend. I want to be good and generous with myself, and indulge the desires I have, while indulging those of others. At the end of the day, I am deeply satisfied with the love story I have cultivated in me.”

      She likes the satisfaction of “cake”. She likes knowing that she is in the power position. I know something that you don’t. I have control here and you are non the wiser. True narcissist.

    • Sorry– I was pointing out a logic flaw, not actually asking “why”. The logic fallacy demonstrates her lack of emotional maturity. Of course its about cake. 🙂

    • This.

      I’m okay with her saying, “I have never believed in monogamy, because I don’t think that humans are built for it in any meaningful way. ” Okay, if polyamory is your thing, then that’s fine with me. It’s a big world, and I don’t really care what goes on among consenting adults.

      But if the boyfriend doesn’t know about it, then it’s cheating.

      Would she feel the same way if she said, “I have never believed in honesty, because I don’t believe that humans are built for it in any meaningful way.”

      Possibly. She is, after all, a narcissist.

      And that means she’s special

      • “I’m okay with her saying, “I have never believed in monogamy, because I don’t think that humans are built for it in any meaningful way. ” Okay, if polyamory is your thing, then that’s fine with me. It’s a big world, and I don’t really care what goes on among consenting adults.

        But if the boyfriend doesn’t know about it, then it’s cheating. ”

        EXACT-A-MUNDO, kb! It always amazes me how pompous cheaters are about their– (ahem!) “philosophy”– of monogamy, yet they fail to share that –(ahem!) “philosophy”– with their unsuspecting partner(s).

        Cake-eating chicken-shit COWARDS!!

    • Here is the passage that says it all for me: “It is true that I sleep with other men and my boyfriend is unaware of it. There is no getting around that, and I’m not afraid to say it (to myself, of course). I am not in denial about what I do, and I quite enjoy it when I think of it.”

      “I quite enjoy it when I think about it.” That’s the deal, right there. It’s never just the sex with these disgusting freaks. It’s the power and control. It’s “I know something you don’t know.” It’s how having their secrets produces intense pleasure for them. I’m sure when she looks at her “boyfriend,” she smirks.

    • “I’m also not down with people who jeopardize their partner’s health.”
      But..wait! A slick, hot, Argentinian photographer like Matias would never think of sleeping with anyone other than Ms. Fabulous, would he? Oh, wait…

  • “I believe that he is the happiest coupled man he knows, and it is my pleasure to know that he wants for nothing.”

    W T F

    Of course he’s happy…right now. But once he finds out? He won’t be happy and we can only hope he’ll uncouple himself from her asap. He wants for nothin? Because he doesn’t know how dishonest she is. Will read the whole article later. I’m sure I will be suitably horrified.

    • Uh NO he’s not happy. She spends a great deal of time invested in propping her wonderful-ness up. There really isn’t a relationship at home. He probably doesn’t get good sex, his gut is probably beginning to nag at him, he’s married or in a long term relationship but…hmmmm, something is missing. And he can’t quite figure out why he is not having any fun. Because isn’t she describing my ex? I know when you date people like this you feel the “yuck factor.” When you are married to this, times that by 1000. I only hope this man discovers the truth and bails. Then he will get his happy ending. A toast to us Chumps on a beautiful summer day!

  • Every day a new surprise. You absolutely cannot make this stuff up.

    I also believe this concept of “Everyone does it. It’s really no big deal, etc. etc.” has become the prevailing wisdom on the subject. CL, thank you for changing the narrative. You – we – are bucking pop culture, which is like trying to repair a dam about to burst with scotch tape and Elmer’s glue. But it’s a worthy cause.

    • A psychologist told me this morning that “this sort of thing is quite common.” As if I didn’t know that. As if it matters.

        • Affairs. She also told me she didn’t think my wife was a bad person and that she would probably like her if she met her.

              • Eww…I’d be looking for a new counselor. Almost sounds like she is condoning the affair because “this sort of thing is quite common”.

              • Are you serious? I thought it was some random psychologist you knew and even then I thought it was nuts. This is someone you are SEEING? I hope it was the last time you saw her. (You can tell her [by PHONE or EMAIL!]: “Oh, it’s quite common for people to dump lousy psychologists. It happens all the time.”)

              • Yeah … only my second session, Didn’t get a great sense of what she was like the first one as it was mostly me telling my story. She tells I have a right to be angry, that the the treatment sounds abusive and then …. I was taken aback. I’m seeing another counsellor for a specific issue from the past, and I can’t imagine her saying that.

          • ANR, my counselor was disgusted with my ex. Every time I came for my sessions (IC), she would ask me the status of my divorce proceedings. She could not wait for my divorce to be finalized.

            • This one told me — first session, that she thought I wasn’t ready for divorce.

              • I think that’s a very strange thing to say.

                I can imagine asking someone who sounded conflicted if they wanted a divorce, but telling them they’re not ready sounds off.

              • ANR, I went through a few lousy therapists, good ones are hard to find. I don’t mean ones that agree with everything you say either. But for a therapist to tell you on your first visit you are not ready for divorce and on your second that your spouse is not bad and she thinks she would like her? That’s pretty fucked up. A good one would not be voicing opinions like that in the first two sessions. Try again, you will find a good one.

              • I am not sure I would say I felt “ready” for my divorce either. I didn’t want it, but being married to a husband that had a girlfriend was absolute hell. I started the process and kept taking steps forward, and my heart and mind caught up over time. And there was no chance of reconcilation in our situation, since he had no interest in staying married, so that certainly helped me knwo I had no other option. I knew I could only move my vomiting/crying self forward one step at a time until I got to the other side.

            • My therapist tried this with me, but I was in the early stages and wasn’t yet ready to listen to people tell me how awful my then-stbx was. He did help me to focus on my own needs and complete my degree, however.

              • ANR, I had a family therapist that sounds like your individual one.

                When I told her that my son was struggling coming at the late hour we were coming, she said “he seems fine when he gets here” (she had not been with me for an hour in transit and prior when he begged me not to take him). Then when I told her I was concerned that he was driving with his father who claims he is not drinking anymore with this background:

                From the seven years we were together I have never known him to stay sober and had been a passenger in his car along with my son when he was either drunk or hung over—I did not drive early in the relationship because I did not learn yet—I come from public transit culture. Ex would also look at me with disgust whenever I asked him if he was okay, or if I told him he looked out of it. When he would nearly hit cars I would jump and he would take his hands off the wheel, terrifying me and saying “What!? What did I do?” (His mantra). He used his depression to explain his demeanor when he was hung over. When I asked him about the alcohol I smelled he would go into a rage. I lived in terror.

                So when I told her I was concerned, she looked at me like I was nuts and said in a very calm calm voice “Did something happen to make you feel this way?” when I told her he had a car accident in front of my kid’s school with my kid in the car, she looked like I was making the whole thing up. (my kid told me then eventually my ex and then a neighbor whose kid goes to the same school told me he saw the fender bender–the police came when everyone was getting dismissed.)

                I think some therapists interpret all upset, anger or fear as that the person coming to them is crazy. They really don’t know what it is like to be tied to a sociopath or addict and how best to help you get unattached or deal with actual chaos not generated by you.

                ANR, I agree with Datamwuf, it sounds like your therapist is one lousy therapist. If she is trying to convince you that your experiences are not what you experience them to be—I would find another.

                Has she helped you at all?

            • Yeah, my therapist almost never makes overt judgments out loud, but the other day we were talking about Jackass and she sequed into a comment about how she thinks there are lots of bad people out there. 🙂

              • And ANR–no one is ever ready for divorce. It’s like surgery. Sometimes you have to do something very painful to save yourself.

          • “(S)he’s not a bad person” is often said about people who are bad. But there is also the supposed virtue of not being judgmental.

            Well, good judgment will often reinforce the rational fact that bad people are those who do bad things. Watch for those. Stay away from “not a bad person”s. Your life will be so much better.

            Oh! And stay away from those who like to say, “(S)he’s not a bad person.” They lack judgment. Bad things happen to people who lack good judgment.

            • Good lord. Stay away from people who boast that they would probably like a bad person if they met them.

      • WOW! Just because everyone is doing it does not make it right. I say this to my kids all the time. At 4, 6 and 8 yrs old they know this sentence by rote.

  • My responses to this psychotic woman’s self-involved drivel:

    1. Please don’t have children. Please. You can’t love anyone other than yourself. Don’t bring children into that sort of relationship. Having children requires a degree of sacrifice and selflessness. You would never, ever be able to tap into those qualities, and any children you might have would surely be very screwed up and neglected. Do the world a favor, and don’t bring any more people into the world like you.

    2. I would LOVE to know how this wacko would feel if she found out that her boyfriend was cheating on her. This whole little fantasy world of hers balances precariously on the notion that she’s getting all kinds of exotic tail on the side while her faithful, loving boyfriend is waiting patiently and lovingly for her at home and views her as the sun and the moon. How exciting would this all be if the cheating went both ways? Oh, she’d hate that– she doesn’t want an “open relationship.”

    3. I wish that someone knew who this was and would tell her boyfriend. He deserves the truth of who the wingnut is that he’s with before he has kids with her and then will be stuck dealing with her until the children are adults.

    We seriously need a PSA on television like the ones they used to have about drugs when I was a kid. People have no friggin’ clue how destructive affairs are, and I’m tired of seeing them romanticized or shrugged off as if they are no big deal. They destroy families. They often leave one partner struggling financially. They hurt children. They bring along with them STDs; bunny boiler APs; and ugly, protracted courtroom battles. There is nothing that is the least bit romantic about them; in the end, they are as ugly as many of the cheaters are.

    • When I found out that my fucktard cheating ex had cheated on me with the first OW (the married ho-worker) he tried to tell me “every men does it!” like it’s the norm, however, when I said “well if that’s good for you, it should be good for me too then” his face changed and he replied “if you ever cheat on me we are done!” let’s see, it was okay for him to cheat on me and when the truth came out (after so much gaslighting) he told me that every men does it, it’s not a big deal and I was making a such a big deal out of it, YET he couldn’t handle the idea of me fucking someone else and expected complete honesty and faithfulness from me… Double standard’s ?? Asshole!!

      PS: I found out later that he had cheated on his ex-wife throughout their marriage, never been faithful to any woman he has ever been with, but when his ex-wife cheated on him, he couldn’t handle it and they got divorced. Poor poor fucking sausage! I am so glad I dumped his worthless ass and didn’t end up with some incurable STD!

      • They love those asymmetrical relationships, with the power and control all on one side. I’m sure dumping that idiot was a true “narcissistic injury.”

        • Absolutely LovedaJackass! specially it turns out that I am the FIRST and ONLY woman who dumped him in his whole life, oh yes, that hurt his narcissistic ass so badly, I hear he is still having a very hard time sitting on it! 😉

    • A PSA is a brilliant idea. Even if it had no effect on the cheater, it would help the morally impaired understand that fidelity MATTERS and is seriously harmful. It might help to set a standard code of conduct that is sadly lacking.

    • Well said Moving On. I really think there should be more media coverage about how awful and disgusting the cheaters are. They should really be shed in a bad dark light and definitely not glorified by anyone. I would bet any money that the deceptive whore that wrote the article would be horrified if she were to find out that her lovely devoted boyfriend cheated on her as well. It would take all the fun out of her little one sided world. I hope he does find out she’s a cheater and kicks her to the cheater curb where all of those slimy creatures belong.

  • barf-a-roni. She needs to get a room, for herself and her ego. Yuck, just, self-justifying, gaslighting, mindfuckery, yuckery.

    What a tidal swamp of a person. In the smelliest sort of way.

    “The tide comes in, with a new lover, and goes out, leaving me smelling like the putrid fish and vegetation that passes for my brain. Then, when the tide comes in, I have a whole new experience. The inland lake that is my boyfriend knows nothing of my tidal life. I am a mermaid, and treat him like Poseidon, so he is happy, and knows nothing of my squalid, muddy, rotting frolics.”

    • Lol, yes THAT! Beauty on the inside. My close male friend told me he’d sleep with anybody given the opportunity but that sex with someone cheating on a spouse has a whole other flavor. (He is single and doesn’t knowingly sleep with married women).

  • Well the Decree Nisi was announced today so another ‘Princess of Pleasure’ aka OW aka The Get Out of Jail Card has been on my mind.

    Here’s what STBX told me she’d told him (because STBXs do this kind of ‘honesty’)

    She just loves sex

    She wants to have her cake and eat it – and can compartmentalize her life

    She was reading The Ethical Slut: A Guide to Infinite Sexual Possibilities (which obviously includes having sex with your colleague’s husband)

    Here’s the link in case you want to feel a bit more nauseous

    She didn’t want to break up her Yummy Mummy family of two young boys (courtesy of IVF with her Chump). She also told me this when I confronted her on DDay. Of course, only now do I see I should have said ‘But it’s OK to break up my marriage?’- thankfully no children.

    I guess I should have been more astute about her at work questions about my husband- not least her ‘How long were you married for?’ Er… ‘We’re still married’ I replied. And her constant, tedious ‘liking’ of all STBX’s FB posts-oh, they were very ‘online’ as I found out after seeing their FB messaging.

    Of course I was spackling- we were living apart after I’d kicked him out for alcoholism, abuse and stealing money from me to pay for prostitutes. Oh and he never had any money or paid bills. But hey, he was a very creative, artistic Mr Sparkles. And I was in faux reconciliation aka Chumpdom- and protecting him. I know, when you write this stuff down-you go WHAT? You were still with him?

    But I know you understand and as I said- I have the Decree Nisi ( Thanks Chump Lady)- and it’s only a little while now before the Absolute aka the OUT of jail card. Thanks OW.

    • I would translate that as she married a guy to be a stable parent and help her raise her kids, but she’s not that into him. She wants other guys just for fun.

      I have no idea why your ex told you what she said. Perhaps he thought you wouldn’t mind if he slept with someone so long as she didn’t really like him or want to marry him?

      I hate the whole “ethical slut” idea – I think the argument is that it’s not your responsibility if you sleep with a cheater, it’s up to him or her to handle that side of their life. It’s got to be the dumbest use of non-logic to prove that you don’t have to care about other human beings.

      She’s a cold-hearted jerk who doesn’t even know how cold she is.

      On the other hand, you are better off without an abusive alcoholic who steals your money. There’s a reason the ice-slut prefers her husband.

    • I would say the same thing. Much as I despise the married OW in my situation, finding out about her made me cut myself lose from Jackass, who was busy both discarding me and keeping me tethered as a future kibble supply.

  • Wow. WTF is all I was saying while reading. That’s great, she thinks people are food. Dehumanization 101: turn people into food that just gets thrown away when there’s leftovers, only keeps for a week in the fridge. My 3 year old just isn’t looking as fresh as she was when she was born. I think she’s gone stale. I’ll just go throw her out the window on that street corner b/c hey, I always come back for her, right?

    “It is true that I sleep with other men and my boyfriend is unaware of it. There is no getting around that, and I’m not afraid to say it (to myself, of course).” AKA I’m a lying SOB that’s SCARED to tell the truth b/c the moment I do I’ll get screwed over. You’re scared for a reason lady.

    “I want to be good and generous with myself, and indulge the desires I have, while indulging those of others.” Bull shit. You don’t have boundaries or any idea what a healthy boundary actually is. You can’t love yourself, or anyone else for that matter, without setting boundaries.

    “I am a giving and thoughtful partner, and an eager lover, and am as concerned with his needs and desires as I am with my own.” Excuse me while I go throw up. Uh no. Not a chance in hell lady. If you really valued and cared for him you’d put HIS needs for HONESTY and no STDS up at the top.

    “I will have children, and meet new people, and learn things I did not know yesterday. And I intend to do all of it while being happy, fulfilled, and wonderfully free of judgment.” HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yes. Let’s see how “wonderfully free of judgement” you are when I call CPS on you when you do have kids.

  • Hey CL ,
    Remember a few months back , you had a post about a “reformed cheater” who now is dispensing marital advise , and stating cheating is WRONG… WRONG .. WRONG .. WRONG ?
    He has stopped his blog, Affair Advice, because he is tired of having to relive his mistake ( 3 yr affair)
    He and his wife are happier than ever ! and they are moving on with their lives. He never even thinks about his former AP. He has no feelings for her, not even disdain.
    He has left his last post up , but will not read, or reply.
    So I suppose a “desperate housewife” and her cheater husband have given birth to the allusive, precious, rare Unicorn !

    • I’m feeling cranky. I bet he took it down because he’s cheating again, or his wife is leaving.

        • That guy was a total assclapper. He always said the affair was completely his fault, then backed it up by listing all the ways his wife drove him to it. N. P. D.

    • He writes:

      “Because I dared to indicate that the vast majority affairs weren’t about men being pigs, or women for that matter, (although some are), or even sex for that matter, but instead were usually a symptom of something really gone wrong in the relationship. That while a poor relationship is not an excuse for an affair (and again, there is no excuse), it was usually the CAUSE.”

      It looks like the whole blog is about he isn’t that bad of a guy and how his wife helped to cause the affair. I wonder how his wife is doing.

      • According to him…. she thinks HE is being too hard on himself.
        Harder on himself than she is, or ever could be. (PUKE)
        He has stated that their marriage was too boring to stay…. too safe to leave.
        She may decide that she can’t do any better, I think they are older “empty nesters”.
        She may be staying for the money.
        I know a woman that is doing just that.
        Too close to retirement to divorce.
        I guess.
        Whatevar !

  • “I love myself in a way that is as visceral as the love I have for my partner, or a close friend. I want to be good and generous with myself, and indulge the desires I have, while indulging those of others. At the end of the day, I am deeply satisfied with the love story I have cultivated in me.”

    Every word of that puke made me think of my ex, but this particular quote really stood out. He says similar — but less poetic — narcissistic drivel frequently, such as his “I love myself just the way I am and would never want to change.”

    I feel so, so sorry for any future children that disordered woman might have.

  • “I can know someone’s body without wanting to know them as a person”

    This here is what stood out to me.

    I never understood the point of an act of intimacy without acknowledging there was another person at the end of your genitals. Fucking someone without caring whether or not they exist is rather masturbatory, you’re just using someone else’s body to accomplish it.

    • Even as a man, I’ve never gotten that.
      If I just wanted a “release”, well, I can take care of that myself.
      I’m a cheap date, guaranteed to put out, I know I’m clean and I’ll even make me breakfast in the morning… 😉

      • Honestly, anyone who can’t take care of their own needs, well, I feel sorry for them! 😉

    • So basically she just sees other people as a piece of ass. If she wants an ass she can go find a petting zoo for crying out loud. She can even feed one corn with her hand too!

    • She may be a sex addict. Not that I am excusing her actions – she’s a special kind of freak who scares the hell out of me.
      I think this woman is a train wreck. It’s horrid – but I cannot look away. Only a cheater could read this article and think that it makes any kind of sense.
      I read recently that our guts get a “sick sensation ” when we meet a Cluster B type person and that we need to actively listen to that initial response.
      My gut Hurt reading that article – what a cluster fuck she is!!!

  • “a sun that rises and sets in my own mind”

    For the Love of Puppies (in the words of Ned Flanders) this woman is unbelievable. Wouldn’t you love to have a one-on-one conversation with her? Her word salad mastery is equal to her inflated self image.

    It always terrifies me when I realize people like this walk among us.

    • I’m thinking that is an acute and accurate description of how a narcissist sees the word, as a “sun that rises and sets in my own mind.” So if you wonder whether these people can actually “love,” this pretty much makes it clear that, no, they can’t. They are trapped in their own minds.

      • A legend in their own minds. Delusional thinking at its finest! This is a skein of fuckedupedness that no one could unravel. They do not have the capacity to love. They all think like this. And someone will read this crazy woman’s words & recognize her like the Unabomber’s family did.

  • Okay, first off let me just say…I LOVE THIS BLOG. Because if provides me with a community of like-minded people who can see the absurdity in such things as these. I could never have read that article on my own (you see, I was too chicken to even read it!) because I would have spiraled into a depression and lost faith in all humanity. But reading the excerpts you posted, along with your responses is so enjoyable. It makes me laugh out-loud and pleases me that you express the same sort of outrage that I am feeling when I read her words. Thank you Chump Lady for all that you do!

  • Okay, I think this is the right topic to share the conversation I had with my wife when she finally came clean. I need to make it clear that Mona and I were married for 9 years this July and had been together for 11 years. Mona is a school teacher. We are from Michigan. There are no teacher jobs available in Michigan so she moved to Florida to accept a job there. I stayed here in Michigan with our house and my business. We would see each other as often as we could which was usually her breaks for christmas, easter, ect. After she left here in the summer of 2012 she left her email open and I discovered Marty at that time. For two years she downplayed it as just friends. Only went out a couple times for dinner and movie. I always had a bad feeling in my stomach that it was something more. She told me it ended in fall 2012 when I asked her to end it. This conversation is from May 2014. She told me he had died and I think that is why she finally came clean. But it turns out that he didn’t die. He is still alive. I don’t know if she made it up so I would stop worrying about him or if he lied to her to get away from her because his wife was catching on. I don’t know. But he is not dead so don’t worry about that. We talked 3 times a week on yahoo messenger. So here is that conversation. I copied and pasted from the history. I feel that I want to share this and see what some of you take on it. I hope it doesn’t make anyone uncomfortable.

    Thank you,
    see conversation below

    ramona_m2000: Fred I am ready to tell you about Marty
    fdarn77: okay
    ramona_m2000: Marty and I were together for 2.5 years
    ramona_m2000: yes we were intimate, we did a lot of things together
    ramona_m2000: the kids all knew him and liked him
    ramona_m2000: he knew all about you
    ramona_m2000: but also knew that I was very unhappy with you and that is why I could freely be with him
    fdarn77: i want to hear your whole story before i respond
    ramona_m2000: it started off innocent but built
    ramona_m2000: we would do many things together
    ramona_m2000: but when he got sick, he told me that he did not want me to see him like that and made me leave
    fdarn77: when was that?
    ramona_m2000: in october
    ramona_m2000: the last time I actually talked to him was on my birthday
    fdarn77: so you mean you were with him until october when you first moved to that area?
    ramona_m2000: and then it was just a phone call telling me happy birthday
    ramona_m2000: yes, he picked out the house and helped me move into it
    fdarn77: i tought so
    ramona_m2000: 4 days later he was diagnosed with cancer
    fdarn77: okay
    fdarn77: i want you to finish before i say anything
    ramona_m2000: there is nothing else to say
    fdarn77: okay. allow me to ask a few basic questions
    ramona_m2000: what
    fdarn77: first of all did you eve stay in his house and him in your house?
    ramona_m2000: yes
    ramona_m2000: yes
    fdarn77: was he every in your house when you and I would be talking?
    ramona_m2000: no
    fdarn77: okay. you make it sound like you had a pretty serious relationship.. so.. how did you explain coming home every couple months to be with me ?
    fdarn77: did you lie to him too?
    ramona_m2000: no, he knew it
    fdarn77: so…what you are saying is. you would be having sex with marty then you would come here for a week and have sex with me then go back to fl and have sex with marty again. am I correct?
    fdarn77: and he was okay with that?
    ramona_m2000: no, he was not but he also was not going to push me to make a decision
    ramona_m2000: he knew where my heart was and it was with him
    fdarn77: how do you feel about this. knowing you were two timig both of us?
    ramona_m2000: say what ever you want to say Fred
    fdarn77: i am not fighting i just mean how do you feel. do you feel about it
    fdarn77: do you realize that I knew this all along and I tried really hard to get you to admit it. why wouldn’t you?
    ramona_m2000: because it was my relationship with Marty and it did not concern you was the thought in my head
    ramona_m2000: but even now I dont want to talk about it
    ramona_m2000: so I am done for the evening
    fdarn77: but why didn’t file for divorce 2 years ago?
    fdarn77: could it be because you needed me to be your safety net for when your relationship with marty failed?
    fdarn77: see this is the biggest problem i have with this. you played me for a fool and insulted me in the worst possible way and you actually sit there and act like the victim and say its none of my business and convince yourself that you did nothing wrong
    fdarn77: i would like to know what you say to that
    fdarn77: i would like you to reply and then i have one last thing to say to you
    ramona_m2000: I know that I am not the victim, you are
    ramona_m2000: I know that your probably right, I used you as a safety net
    ramona_m2000: it was not right and I told you that I will file for the divorce and let you move on
    fdarn77: i ll be honest with you on that reply I do not thing you sound at all remorseful or have a shred of empathy.
    fdarn77: but i ll be honest about something else. I am VERY disappointed in you for what you did and how you allowed it to drag on for so long
    ramona_m2000: ok
    fdarn77: Mona the best advice i can give you iso to please get professional help because you are setting yourself up for a life time of hard ship that could be treated
    fdarn77: Now when can I expect the divorce papers?
    ramona_m2000: within the next couple of weeks
    fdarn77: i ll look forward to it. please get help. goodbye

      • I know you are right. but my thinking was she fucked up she should pay for it. its already been filed though.

        • You can file and still make her pay for it. You will have to put up a retainer fee for your lawyer, but can ask for your legal fees to be paid back to you by your stbx in the settlement. That’s what I did.

        • I let my ex do all the divorce stuff because like you, I thought he should have to do the dirty work and pay for it too. He initiated it all but toward the end let all his batshit crazy hang out over furniture from an Swedish big box store I will not mention by name he initially agreed to give to me and kept changing his mind every other week.

          I finally had my attorney tell him to get his shit together or I would take him to court and subpoena his mistress for a deposition. I just let him keep the furniture. I could not justify staying married to him a moment longer to keep objects made out of particleboard.

          She is deliberately dragging it out. Do not let her. The fact is, even if she had to do all the proceedings and pay, the chump always gets left with the shit end of the stick.

          BTW, I always want to refer to you as Right Said Fred.

          • Sorry for the typo. I know proper grammar but unable to execute it at the proper occasions, like public forums.

            • About the grammar. I keep posting apologies for my typos too. I just get so emotional when typing these things that I am not paying attention until i submit it. I guess we should be able to get away with that.

              You are right about that risk of letting her handle all the proceedings. However I decided that I am not going to fight for anything. She can have all the furniture I bought for her. She can keep the pets, There won’t be a custody fight. We don’t have kids between us. The kids she mentioned are my step kids. Even though I helped raise them for the last 11 years they are not mine so I have no fight there.

              So I am just going to let her have everything and wash my hands of her and she gets stuck with the legal bill. She filed on June 30th. She did not get an attorney and went to the court house and did it herself. I understand it is about 500.00 to do that in Florida and she just got fired again in June so she is broke.

              She will get stuck with the bill for the divorce proceedings. All I am going to do is check the boxes and mail the papers back.

              I am on day 22 of No Contact and I feel pretty good. I still have moments every day when I feel I have been punched in the stomach but they don’t last as long as they did.

              Mona is a mess and I was 3rd husband. I ignored a lot of red flags that I won’t ignore again with someone else. I guess I should be thankful that I learned this lesson while I am young enough to start over. I am 37.

              As for Mona, she will repeat this pattern with someone else. She will likely not find another good job as she has been fired twice a teacher in less than a year. I think everything is going to go down hill for her from here on. But I will be fine.

              • Holy mackerel! What in the world did she do to get fired twice in one year? None of my business, but that’s astounding. Speaks to her disorder too. Hang in there Fred.

              • ***I am replying to echo here because we can’t reply to 3rd stringers on the thread

                You are exactly right Echo. She got fired because of her disorder. She is a borderline. We just recently came to realize that. As a teacher she always struggled. She was always getting in trouble with parents and administration because she is a such a push over in the classroom. Her classes are always the rowdy ones where everyone misbehaves because they don’t respect the teacher. My understanding is both of the last two times she was fired was because of poor classroom control. That is an example of someone who doesn’t have boundaries. People with out boundaries don’t know how to respect other people’s boundaries.

              • Fred,
                I am not sure how all this works state to state, so it may not be an issue. If she lost her job, can she try to get you to continue paying support or alimony? You are the partner with the income. Stranger things have happened. Just saying don’t get blindsided.

          • I love this blog. It is so therapeutic to guffaw like I do so often when I read all the snarky comments everyone comes up with.

            • ” I just let him keep the furniture. I could not justify staying married to him a moment longer to keep objects made out of particleboard. ”


    • Fred, you’re in for a roller-coaster ride. Hang on, you can make it to the other side. Your story sounds a lot like mine, except mine was fortunately not as drawn out. Don’t count on her showing you any sympathy towards you in resolving the divorce. My wife was incredibly sweet for six years and then tried to take me to the cleaners. (She wound up paying more than she would have had she simply gone through mediation and given me the modest, short-term alimony we originally agreed on, and throwing a tantrum at her lawyer when the judge didn’t rule her way.) Anyway, get an attorney and make sure s/he is looking out for your interests in this. It looks like adultery can affect alimony in your state, so maybe you can use that as leverage to get an outcome that’s more in your interests.

    • You can’t fix or save this, Fred. Nothing cures a cheater. That shit only happens in movies. You will have a better life but it will only happen if you let her go. Her cheating was not because of anything YOU did. And nothing she did will make sense. If she had been honest she would have addressed issues, turning towards another pretty much ruins the dialogue. I suspect you are in early days and hurting. My humble advice, Go do things you love. Bike on the beach. Take a ceramics class. It helps. 🙂

    • Holy crap, Fred! How on earth you could remain that calm and civil through that exchange is beyond me.

        • I love how you stood your ground. “This is the biggest problem i have with this. you played me for a fool and insulted me in the worst possible way and you actually sit there and act like the victim and say its none of my business and convince yourself that you did nothing wrong. i would like to know what you say to that. I would like you to reply and then i have one last thing to say to you.”

          Even when she agreed to the divorce, it was all about her; she would “let you move on.” The most empowering thing about reading on the blog for me was figuring out I had been dealing with a narcissist and that I wasn’t alone. Now you are truly in a position to move on with someone who doesn’t require spackling.

    • I find it pathetic that she initiates the conversation but when you press for details is like ‘I don’t want to talk about it’. Jesus Christ the immaturity is outstanding.
      And no, you don’t ‘let her have everything’ – she wants something, she fights for it.

      • She is so immature. I am actually feeling angry about it this morning. That “I am done talking” shit pisses me off so much. Its like I have no right to this info.

        • Fred, when she says “I am done talking” its a power trip. She knows the whole story and you don’t and in her fucked up mind she has power/control over you, you not knowing everything, ——–don’t ask, let it go,——- because you will never get the whole story/truth and if you keep asking, in her mind it shows to her that you still care and they get a sick pleasure out of it. Nothing says “fuck off!” better than staying NC, so stay NC.

          • I agree NC is the only card I have to play to keep my sanity. I think I am on day 23 now. I am starting to lose count. Today I have to admit I am fighting off little urges to contact her just to express the anger I am feeling at the moment. Don’t worry I won’t. I remind myself that is what she wants in order to regain control over me.

            • I’ve been there, done that and bought the shirt Fred. When I first went NC with my cheating ex, in that first 2 months or so, I wanted so badly to text/email and tell him what a disgusting, low life scum, piece of shit that he really is and express my anger and let him have it, but I didn’t, and looking back I am glad I didn’t, because he would’ve sat there thinking that I must still care about him (which I didn’t and don’t ) and he still has some kind of power over me. The more time passes, the better it gets with NC, believe me when I say this even though it may not feel like that now and once the divorce is final it will get even better, just count your blessings you didn’t have a child with her. I completely do understand wanting to express anger, because for 2 years she denied what you knew in your heart, mine did that to me blatantly for 3 years, now that’s the most anger comes from, them denying the truth for so long, but eventually you will reach a place that you will be so glad its over and she is no longer in your life. I’ve been in complete NC close to a year now and I am so grateful every day that he is no longer in my life and my only/biggest regret is not dumping his ass right away then cutting him out of my life completely. I guess its better late than never. Hang in there Fred, it will get better and yes stay NC.

            • Fred, you’ve got all the detail you need now to have made your decision to end things. No sense in engaging any more, there will never be an answer to ‘why’.

              I had a narc string me along, taunt me, and break my heart. I still get pangs and the urge to contact him but I haven’t and won’t. Narcs will keep coming back randomly for kibbles or to test the waters. Even your negative reaction is kibbles for them, so don’t give it out. My narc kept texting me and asking me to visit him (requiring a two hour drive) — silly arrogant bugger, no offer to visit ME thank god — and then finally after a gap of 18 months, he texted “shall I take you off my phone list?”. I happened to be with a new BF at that moment, and I just deleted the message and smiled and ordered a drink. Peace at last.

              Of course you still feel residual love for Mona that you thought was reciprocated. If I loved someone then discovered their deception, my love would quickly fade to MEH. And you feel anger you’d like to express. That anger will have no effect on her except to fill her kibble bowl.

              I tried writing long, thought-out emails, trying to get my narc to repent just a little, even apologize. Useless, he replied with several of the “stupid shit cheaters say” classics. Until we accept that these are truly ill individuals who will go on victimizing normal people forever, we will not be at peace. Did you not suspect this was possible when you became partner #3?

              • I appreciate that. I think you are absolutely right.

                I also wrote so many long thought out letters rationalizing with logic only to get a vague meaningless response. She just can’t seem to grasp the gravity of pain her actions and behavior cause.

                I understand that is because she is so disordered and nothing I say or do is going to get through to her.

                That is exactly how I keep myself from contacting her. I remind myself that is what she wants. Whether I lash out in anger or send loving words, all it does is gives her control over me.

                She can choose to ignore me which she knows infuriates me. Or she can choose to respond in a vague meaningless way that will confuse me. Or she will respond in a way I would like to hear simply to reel me back in only to drop me on my head later.

                Its a no win. If I contact her for any reason I become weaker. But yes I am struggling with it still but it is getting so much easier. So days I want to say something angry. Other days I want to apologize for angry things I already said.

                I had a dream this morning that I did contact her in a loving way and I was angry at myself for doing it. Then I woke up and I was so relieved it was just a dream. I don’t have to start over with no contact. On day 24 now.

    • File yourself. Do it. She won’t, because it’s boring and dull and inconvenient and it will mean she REALLY is on her own and that safety net is… gone…

      She reckons you’re bluffing, I would bet next week’s housekeeping on it. So file. Get everything you can and leave her to her cancer-suffering lover. Let her have her ”real love”. It will be less Dying Young and more… revolting when she actually has to live with someone who is ill, who is being treated, likely with chemo and needs extensive medical care… and who may possibly not have a good prognosis. I would pay money to be a fly on the wall in that house about 3 months into the romance.

    • Oh by the way, I was sending her money every week because she was struggling all the while this was going on. After this conversation I was able to ask her how often did she see Marty since for the first two years of their affair he lived almost 3 hours north of her. Get this. She said he would drive down saturday evening and spend the night with her than head home sunday morning. They would do this about every other weekend so she said. I wish I had thought to ask “Did he leave money on the dresser when he left?”

    • Fred, I think you are right that the reason cheaters don’t file for divorce is not only because of financial reasons, but because emotionally and psychologically they want you there as a back-up option. That allows them to take the risks of having the affair and I think adds to the thrill.

      When I discovered the affair, my XH asked me to stay with him because he thought the OW might eventually break up with him (she wanted to marry a young, single rich guy), but if she wanted to marry him, he would. When I asked him point-blank if he wanted me as to act as his back-up option, he replied, “Yes.”

      • “Fred, I think you are right that the reason cheaters don’t file for divorce is not only because of financial reasons, but because emotionally and psychologically they want you there as a back-up option.”
        I agree 100% blue. When I found about about STBX’s affair, I flat-out asked him if he wanted a divorce. He said yes, he wanted to be with the OW. I filed about 2 weeks after that conversation. When he found out, he was honest-to-goodness shocked as shit. I asked him why since it was what he wanted, and he did not have an answer. The shock in his voice was epic.

        • When I told my STBX that I knew of the affair, his reaction was, “And your point is?”

          I told him that I knew he was unhappy in the marriage, yadda, yadda, yadda, and that I was going to leave so I wouldn’t be in the way of their Twu Wuv. Then I moved into the spare room, telling him that I knew we were two adults. All he said was, “We can work out the details later.” Okay, so I have that phone into the lawyer now, and expect to get an appointment for us both very early in the week, after which I plan to leave town for a few days. 😛

          I think that it will be at that point, when we get the paperwork rolling and he understands just how expensive it’s going to be, that he’ll be shell-shocked.

        • Yes, he seemed to think that it was okay to treat me as a back-up option or that it was even like some sort of compliment, like he was telling me: See? You’re still in the running! I haven’t completely rejected you and still consider you good enough for second place. There’s still hope that I will come back to you, so don’t despair.

  • I should had added that she moved to florida in august 2011.
    This conversation was in May 2014 and you can see she says she will file for divorce. But she didn’t until july 2014.

    • I’m sorry you went through that. It stinks. Saying that her relationship with Marty had nothing to do with you…amazing. Interesting how cheaters think. My ex also told my son his married coworker had nothing to do with leaving me. He promptly moved into her parent’s basement, now he runs around with her family (including her husband) and is involved with her kids. As I read in his journal, he’s “planting seeds” to break up her family. So twisted.

      • They are such damaged people. It is so clear that they just don’t get it. They have nothing good to offer the world.

  • Seriously….she wants to be taken seriously, which is hilarious in itself.

    The article should be followed by an audience laugh track. This is Shakespeare in homage to dumb and dumber.

    Translation…..I inhale fabreeze…and my toilet is a throne.

    • This post pretty much describes the flavor of crazy I was eating a year and a half ago. Then I decided I am not a fan of leftovers and threw him out!

      Thanks again CL in reminding me how much I like eating a full, fresh, healthy meal with desert every now and then! : )

  • As soon as I stop laughing hysterically, I will comment more, than lmao, and were her initials AWL, by any chance? XD

  • If her chump boyfriend and some of her myriad of lovers knew she was lying to them she would probably be loving herself alone. That’s why she lies.

    I can see the D-day scene. “Oh babe, you were unaware of my other lovers. Was I supposed to tell you? You never asked because you were so happy. If my having other lovers made you feel bad, I apologize but that was not my intension.”

    I would rather be a rock than this individual. She should not have kids.

    I think the draw for readers to this crap is the porn nature of her whole drivel. Yes yes we can imagine you in orgasmic throws and then staggering away silently because communicating is not what you do.

    Oh your orgasims are so mighty and then you run off and lie to your boyfriend about your whereabouts. That makes for an extra special orgasm doesn’t it? What a dead person she is.

    I like my orgasms honest. I don’t feel good in my body when I am hurting someone else with my actions.

    You must be made of pussy so you really don’t care much. No empathy for others for you. Next mind blowing orgasm. oh that was great now let me get on the phone and lie to my bf.

    How much rest do you need in between?

    Isn’t it interestong how she just has amazing sex ALL the time. I think she is leaving out a few mugs she would rather not discuss. She’s just not telling us about the sex that is not all that satisfying, oh I just won’t call him again. Let’s focus on the Argentinian who speaks limited English so we can’t really talk to each other. No questions, no talking, so much better that way.

    It’s like stealing someone’s wallet so you can be good to yourself and buy yourself a sex toy. It’s being good to yourself dont you see. It’s not stealing because the person does not realize it. If the tree falls and no one is there does it really fall? If you fuck someone and lie about it to your boyfriend or keep having him believe you are monogomous and he is “unaware” is it lying? Of course not! He did not see the tree and plus it’s my self love.

    I am so glad that mind fuck is made clear. Because that’s all this sad excuse for a human being understands. Mindfuck.

  • Here’s the problem with her “I’m too cool for monogamy” justification for her obscene behavior: We are all free to fuck whoever we want in this society. That is not the issue- and she knows it isn’t.
    The issue is she LIES about it. And the most disturbing line, to me is the following:
    “Part of the reason I seek affairs instead of an “open relationship” is because I profoundly enjoy the privacy and the intimate knowledge I share only with myself. I love myself in a way that is as visceral as the love I have for my partner, or a close friend”

    This beeeeotch doesn’t lie out of necessity. She GETS OFF ON IT.

    This woman is a malignant narcissist. Possibly a sociopath.
    Someone stop her before she procreates and ruins the lives of her poor future children.

    • I totally agree. She essentially admits she enjoys the deceit. Or, excuse me, “the intimate knowledge I share only with myself.”

      • I don’t know if statements like that constitute word salad, or verbal diarrhea.
        Either way, it makes my head hurt.

      • “the intimate knowledge I share only with myself” has got to be THE most elegant word salad distortion for “LIE” I have heard yet. There should be a trophy.

        I am laughing out loud, yet the hair is standing up on the back of my neck.

      • That’s the telling part….that she ENJOYS the lies. It isn’t about treating herself to lots of sex, it’s the betrayal that’s the thrill.

        That’s the way the ex was. He isn’t enjoying his sordid sex romps so much now that he doesn’t have anybody to lie to about it.

        These people are just big black holes.

        • narcissists can only have transactional relationships, not intimate ones. if something isn’t in it for them, or it gets hard and emotional, rather than dig deep to do the work, they need to complete the transaction with a bunch of bobble-heads chanting yes to everything they say. my dickhead does it and his npd mother does it. and as soon as we moved close to her after 25 years, he began acting exactly like that for the first time in our relationship. his mother coos in his ear (not exaggerating, she whispers in his ear all the time) “you are special and you deserve to be praised for everything” because it reflects well on her. cha ching, transaction complete.

      • I think her words are a window into how these narcissists see themselves, how the only “reality” for them is in their own minds. Her words make it clear she has no empathy. In that sense, what these people write is very important for helping chumps to see what their narcissistic partners are really like. She isn’t any worse than Jackass or Fred’s wife or any of the rest of the predators we write about here every day. She’s garden variety, even down to the need to publish her inane, self-referential thoughts.

  • I think the author, somewhere in her pea-brain narcissist’s head, knows she’s not quite right. Otherwise the little chicken shit would not post anonymously. Classic…kibble gathering. She’s so low on the comprehension scale that she doesn’t get it that spreading your legs for every six pack you fall over in a business hotel bar, is NOT a relationship.

    She doesn’t even have a relationship with her regular man.

      • An OW who taunted me is similar to this blogger: an ATTENTION WHORE.

        Now that she is stuck with a kid from my defective Ex, she seeks her kibbles by blogging about her intimate issues, going on tabloid talk shows and making a public spectacle of herself. She is go up her own arse that she truly doesn’t seem to see how twisted and ugly she is. I taped her most recent appearance and showed it to some colleagues…without telling them her role in my torture…and their reaction was ‘ew….’ what a loser… I know my Ex would cringe at all that so he will be back on the whore trail finding his own dirty little secret encounters. Looking forward to the next chapter in that drama.

        The blogger we are examining here is doing the same. No doubt all the negative reaction she gets will egg her on because good or bad, kibbles are kibbles.

        To her, we are all the ‘stupid ones’ out there who haven’t realised that we too can make false promises to our partners. That little world ‘in her own head’ shows a complete lack of acceptance that she too is just like the rest of us, except that most people have enough self-respect to know that lying is WRONG. Screwing strangers – simply a mechanical act.

        No one has likely ever modelled integrity for her. She will be a lonely old prune.

        • To her, we are all the ‘stupid ones’ out there who haven’t realised that we too can make false promises to our partners.

          Yep. If I had to profile the author, I would say she reminds me of folks I have come across that think their willingness to lie, cheat, steal, break laws in general, or be violent to get what they want underhandedly… makes them especially clever.

          I suspect she views the fact that others are restrained “by conventional notions of morality” as a kind of weakness in everybody else.

  • I’ve never been cheated on (well not that I know of but I’m young) I’ve always felt it’s horrible the way society gives cheaters a pass. So when I found Chump Lady I was like ‘Yeah! Someone that explains everything I feel about why cheating is wrong is such a great way’ Personally I can’t be friends with someone who is a cheater and the moment I find out someone cheats I can’t stand them. It’s like they’re never the same in my eyes no matter how much everyone thinks they’re such a good person. I think they should be shunned. And I hate how my generation hides behind the ‘Don’t be judgmental’ bullshit to excuse blatantly horrible behaviour like cheating.

    Reading things like this make me feel sick. What I don’t understand is if she’s as cool and as evolved as she thinks she is, surely she’ll be able to bag a guy that also believes in her ‘monogamy is for ninnies’ belief system. There’s plenty of them running around. Or surely since it’s such a great thing her husband would be willing to play along?

    These people are complete and utter frauds and the way they rationalise and delude themselves into thinking that what they’re doing isn’t just straight wicked and selfish is truly shocking.

    • Ah, Youth! Re your comment, A Standing Ovation! I have always believed truth is best. I n every relationship I have. Welcome to CL.

  • Good grief!

    What a pathetic person. Makes me wonder what she is going to do when she ages, everything starts heading south (and it all will) and she will no longer be a “hottie”. Will she drop her standards in order to keep the affairs going, screwing less than fabulous guys because that’s all she will be able to attract as she gets older? What is BF finds out and dumps her? The obvious outcome of such behavior is winding up alone. The mental picture of some old broad taking on somebody….anybody just to have a warm body for a while is pretty hurl inducing. Ick! But of course that will never happen to her because she is so special……Can we say delusional?

    • I told my ex-wife something along these lines when we separated. “You may feel great now, but do you think the kind of man who pursues a married woman will be there for you once the thrill is gone, and you’re old and gray?” She only saw it as me accusing her of being vain (which I guess I was, but that’s not all I was doing), and dismissed it as me trying to make her into a monster.

    • Tessie, I am still a hottie at 62 years of age!! 🙂 The only problem with that is that my ex husband of 37 years now prefers late teen to 20 year old prostitutes of a certain ethnic group. Many white Australian baby boomer blokes are the same. They are trading in long term wives for the young ones overseas. It is an epidemic and they are bringing them back to Australia to set up home.
      By the way, I am not a hottie but I am still very presentable. But not enough for the ex who told me I am too old for him now and he is also 62 years old. They can’t see themselves, can they.

      • That’s a good reminder to file early after the bomb has been dropped, when these idiots still think they’re invincible and attractive. Early on, they may even feel a smidge of guilt, but also that they’re cosmically compelled. So take them for everything you can. Because at some point they’re going to wake the hell up and realize they have completely fucked up and are desperate and alone. That’s not when you want to move on–when they’re all used up. Get them while they’re grand.

      • I watched a very middle aged guy wheel his kid around Walmart with his new Asian wife ( half his age ) and it was interesting.

        The child was obviously from his first marriage. He looked haggard and disoriented at best.

        She looked like she loathed him and would not walk beside him. She had mentally “checked out” of the relationship…I mean meal ticket.

        He has his karma and so does she 🙂

  • Well, CL, the comments prove your point: most people are decent and kind, and you need to get AWAY from these selfish character disordered people because there are many more nice people out there.

    The comments are overwhelming disapproving and aware of the reality that is cheating: that it is selfish, and cruel.

    Gives me hope.

  • Besides the initial shock, anger, and revulsion over the absurdity of this article by a cheater, I am mostly sad. It hurts my heart to watch such horrific self-deception and the obvious destruction this person is causing by her willful choices to deceive plus cheat. And it is sickening to see it promoted as good. Disgusting. And oh so very sad.

  • I just had a few minutes to read the article in it’s entirety. I’m honestly surprised my head didn’t explode at the ignorance and utter selfishness of this woman. I have absolutely no comprehension of such despicable behavior. I remember stbxh saying to me “I never thought you would find out.” I thought he was out of his mind…first of all because he seemed to be saying that having an affair was ok as long as I didn’t know about it and secondly because he was fucking a woman who left her husband and children to be with him…she was determined to make damn sure I found out and in the most humiliating way possible!! No way she was going to lose the man of her dreams! I will never, ever understand people who behave this way. Sex is not meant to be an “all you can eat buffet” (at least not the kind of sex I’m looking for!) Screwing around on a committed partner and getting away with it does not make you some kind of new age, enlightened love goddess. It makes you a liar and a cheat. Folks can try to dress up adultery any way they want…but even a sugar coated piece of shit is still a piece of shit.

    • “I remember stbxh saying to me “I never thought you would find out.””
      My STBX said “I just hoped you’d never find out”. Meaning he would have continued to screw me over forever if he could have.

      • Yes, Sandy! Mine said the same thing. Then I asked “So what you’re saying is if I didn’t know, then in your twisted mind you weren’t doing anything vile to me?” Crickets. These people have NO emotional connection to their “loved ones” at all. Even before D-Day and my subsequent investigation into the vortex that is NPD, I said to him once, “You know, when our son and I aren’t standing right in front of you, we still EXIST. We are not characters in the movie of your life.” He had the nerve to look shocked. These “people” are a completely different breed – a sub category of homo sapiens.

  • Loving the comments over on that site. People are really going to town and explaining exactly why this person is completely fucked up.

    There are a few who don’t think it can be real, that a person like this can possibly exist. They’ve obviously lived sheltered lives, the lucky bastards. 🙂

    • ‘There are a few who don’t think it can be real, that a person like this can possibly exist. They’ve obviously lived sheltered lives, the lucky bastards. :)’

      ROFL 😀

  • CL, this post rocks — though I have to complain that your closing lines made me snort my Diet Coke up my nose, which was NOT cool! One of my former best friends is currently hooked up with a married woman who behaves a bit like this. Note that he’s a former best friend; I can’t forgive him for what he’s doing to her poor husband.

    • This is when you tell the married woman’s husband, complete with details.
      Make it so hes knowledgeable about the full story and can make decisions as such.

  • Thank you CL for linking to this. It was like reading what the inside of my STBXH’s head must be like. And it was so vile, disgusting, and disordered that it helped me continue to trust that he sucks.

    It was also kind of traumatizing to read this as well, and know that I was in fact married to someone who could so easily and fully undermine me and my reality.

  • Hey got a look at my ex the other day and he definitely mirrors this cheater thought process. He was marvelous, too good for me and our kids, and having “smokin’ hot sex” with his racquetball partner (now Owife, lucky her!). He simply looks like shit now. Really don’t all cheaters look like shit?

      • Yaaawwwwwnnnnn. These people are all the same. They really are… Assholes straight from central casting. They try so hard to convince others that they are so cerebral and deep and spiritually enlightened compared to the rest of us square, conventional dullards.

        They know they are actually about as deep as a parking lot puddle and they are absolutely TERRIFIED that anyone else will find out. They all tend to flit across the surface of life and are unable to form any kind of real, lasting relationship with anyone including their own children.

        My ex wife could have written this pretentious, puerile crap.

        It must be a special kind of hell to be them.

        • YES: “They all tend to flit across the surface of life and are unable to form any kind of real, lasting relationship with anyone…”

    • Oh Drew. Yes they do look like s**t, but they think they “feel younger and more alive than they ever have in thier lives!” Yuk! I want that mirror they are using! My COPD, poor circulation, false tooth ST BX thinks he’s Don Juan! Hope he can still get it up on his next birthday for his Schmoopie cause at 60 he needs to realize he is old and equipment starts to fail at that age! Especially when he’s over using it to the max!! Makes me want to vomit!

      • My ex doesn’t look great, that’s for sure. He’s lost some weight but he looks older and has this pained look in his eyes. It’s sort of sad, really. I think he thought it was all going to be sunshine and roses. Not so much, it seems.

      • my ex wasn’t the best looking, but he thought he was the shit when he was with me, while fucking his married, plain, homely, white trash skanky side dish fucks, and now he looks like shit, much worse than before! My heart bleeds lol!

        • My ex used to be very handsome. Now he looks … watered down. And final OW? Not much to look at at all.

          • doesn’t that break your heart Nord? My guess would be no. Let him live with that thing and consequence’s of his shitty decisions. You take care of you and your children, live your life happy knowing he is her problem now and sit back and watch them plummet down even more with time…because I can assure you, that they will.. 🙂

            • But she has recently insisted that she doesn’t think he’ll cheat. And I, for one, believe that to be true. Mwahahahaha

            • my XH looks bad and apparently she doesnt notice or doesnt care. all she wanted to have “was a man” any man would do. she saw what we had and mistakenly thought he had done it all (everything we own, 4 wheelers, boats, jetskis, pool was all bought and paid for by me.) and she wanted what we had. she is going to have a very rude awakening when she finds out he never does anything. i wonder how long he can lie to her about why he is not doing anything and how it is because he is the victim. i mean i was such a mean, hateful person who never let him do anything, or drink or go visit his crappy friends and family.

              but ya, last picture i saw of him, he looks way bad, pale, thin, sick and yea it hurt me to see him like that. first thing i thought was OMG he is miserable. and he needs me to take care of him because she obvisously is not. but then i realized. THAT is what he wanted. he wanted a girl that wouldnt ask him for anything, no responsiblities. it is just too damn bad he doesnt know how to take care of himself and surprise, surprise that she doesnt even notice.

              SMDH… it is just sad

              • your story seems very similar to mine. My cheating ex’s OW’s thought the house, vehicles, my clothes and jewelry etc. was all because of him and they wanted what I had and he let them think that. (everything is mine) Those skanks were doing lot of sexual favors in hopes, one day they will live in my house, live my life with all those expensive things. I can only imagine their horror when I threw his ass out and they realized they did all that for nothing!! LOL!! whose the fool now and where did they go? isn’t it disgusting, there are so many predator women out there wanting all that without any work on their part so they get in bed with someone else’s man? But those women didn’t make any promises to us, they did and didn’t say “thanks, but no thanks, I am already taken”

                He can only lie to her so long, eventually she will wake up and smell the coffee! oops, too late lol!

                And as far as him looking bad, just think of it like CL says, “he fired you from that job of caring when he decided to cheat!” don’t feel bad for him not even a nanosecond and let him rot!!

    • The only thing scarier than that article are the comments. I was taken aback by how many people either blamed the husband for supposedly not satisfying her or even worse, that they didn’t see a single.thing.wrong with public fornication. A lot of people on the interwebs with rocks in their heads, it seems.

  • I think we as chumps need to continue to do what we can to change the view from “wink wink everyone does it now” to the horrific mindfuck cheating is on the ignorant spouse and any unsuspecting children about to discover their world is blown to bits.

    Let’s get the fear of not being able to buy baby formula because the Very Important Cheater stole the grocery money to pay for champagne coolies for his skank out there.

    Let’s talk about the shame of talking to the accountant during tax time and inadvertently discovering the retirement accounts have been gouged, and you’re a stay at home mom who trusted and depended on their spouse to provide for her future after insisting she stay home to raise their children.

    Let’s explain the humiliation and embarrassment of having a bank representative call to tell you your credit line is maxed out, and then cough when you insist you never “bought” anything from a store named “Ashley Madison.” And then have him explain exactly what “Ashley Madison” is.

    Let’s talk about the calls we get from schools about our children getting into fights, or crying jags, or wetting pants all of a sudden. And shouldering the shame of hearing teachers talk about the effects of divorce on academic achievement, knowing they blame you because you are the one who picked up the phone. And how lectures from teachers about character and parenting are so condescending and insulting when you know you had no clue anything was wrong with your marriage. But you have to eat it because naturally, your cheating spouse is at “a business dinner.”

    There’s more, right? Bring it. We can collectively write the rebuttal to this piece of shit article.

    • Damn, that was awesome.

      Oh, there’s the STD checks–one now, one in 6 months. Waiting in line at the lab, maybe being recognized by a well-meaning acquaintance…. Yeah, that happened to me. Boy, wasn’t SHE shocked when she printed out the labels for my test tubes!

      Oh, there’s the new economic insecurity–maybe having to move your kids away from the school or neighborhood they call home.

      Those are SOME shit sandwiches the kids have to eat. “My parents are divorced.” Or, “I need one for my mom’s house and one for my dad’s house.” They get to share their parents with some other kids now, maybe even be abused by those kids and/or their new “mommy”/”daddy.”!

      How about the condescension of EVERYONE, who ignorantly lecture you with cliches, “It takes two to tango, you know.” Or, “You need to get over it.” Or, “You guys should really try to work things out for the kids.”

      Cheaters suck.

      • Ah yes, the “Get over it already.” Right up there with, “Now you can focus on meeting Mr. Right.”

        Like I’m eager to jump into dating after dragging myself out of a big vat of cheater acid. No thanks.

    • Yes, I think most of our exes weren’t just Cheaters but thieves. In many ways. In the early days I realized I had wasted half my life waiting for this man to be real. Lol I was actually amazed at how clever my ex was in dissipating funds. Not only before Dday but after. He gave out scholarships to children whose parents were pillars in the community. (It was a little out of character for him) and he did it with our son’s savings. He dumped our savings purchasing big ticket items which he then sold to others for money he pocketed. I actually wrote to him and shared my thoughts. Whores are expensive. I think his main goal was to drive me away from my home and community and he succeeded. My kids are all really struggling now and while they recognize what a piece of shit their father is they keep hoping he’ll turn back into the guy they knew. I was so great at covering that mess up. Yeah, infidelity cost us our financial security and our sense of the world being a fair place. It’s one thing when a stranger screws you over, quite another when it’s someone you love and trust. I don’t know if my kids and I will ever trust like that again. They are more wounded now than they were initially. He just keeps putting them through more crap.

      • I still love how Jackass could spend the money I put in his business account while telling me he was “too busy” to actually talk to me.

      • The financial devastation is the worst bit for me. One of my kids said to me just today, ‘I never thought I’d see us living the way we do’, meaning we live in a crap place in a crap area and everything surrounding money is a huge worry. My ex pays a very small amount in child support and says that’s all the kids get and the rest is up to me. His new life is where his focus is and where his money goes. And he sees absolutely nothing wrong with this, despite me giving up my career to support his and only doing this after a lot of long talks about what this meant for me as far as relying on him completely. Once I figured out he’d been cheating for years and kicked him out he did everything he could to destroy me financially. And he’s nearly succeeded. I’m a middle aged lady trying to put my career back together far, far from home and I can tell you that all I see, despite some success, is a long road of worry, anxiety and sleeplessness. I will never forgive him for doing this to me because he didn’t have to. He chose to do this out vindictiveness and cruelty. And my kids suffer as much as I do and are so sick of worrying about money all the time. Unforgiveable, as far as I’m concerned.

        • Nord, I moved back home when I realized my income (including alimony) could not help my kids pursue and then graduate from college. I took a pay cut, found a part time job I love (working with kids), and am slowly upgrading skills. My folks are growing older and need help too. They do however own property and were gracious enough to let me live there (at first in an old fifth wheel!) It is a dramatic change but I am happy. My kids struggle too but are growing more independent. My son and I are currently fixing up an outbuilding on the property so we have more living space. In the last three years, my father built his retirement home with a little help from me and all three children were able to attend college. Two have graduated. So, I keep learning to pursue my dreams. They are possible, even on small budgets.

          • Of course we still work towards our dreams but unfortunately I don’t have the option of moving in with anyone. I’m completely on my own and have to find a way to make it work. It’s the complete cruelty of him doing this to me, knowing the situation. He truly does suck and it makes me laugh when he plays the victim and acts like I’m the bad guy in this.

      • wow…I am so sorry Drew…I wish you and your children the best and hopefully fast recovery from all that..

        • Nicollete14, I am close to collecting retirement-my half :)- so that helps. I have learned many things. My children and I used to defer to my ex, we seldom had the opportunity to do new things we loved as all our resources went into his plans and activities. It seemed as if our life together never moved forward and I think when we all began to grow, to really embrace new experiences, that my ex was unsettled. So, our new family motto? “Sometimes you gotta say, What the fuck?” As in it’s okay to please ourselves. It took me many years to learn how to be assertive and selfish in a healthy way. I think we have all learned to trust our guts. Narcs are exhausting and so controlling…and it seems as if they thrive on the same boring pattern. Groundhog’s Day just only never better. Lol. My children and I are hoping to spend Christmas in NY, away from the fake toxic ex, his Owife, and his dysfunctional family. It’s nice to finally have a say in how we are living our lives.

          • yes collecting retirement, even if its half would definitely help Drew. Isn’t that grand though that you got rid of a selfish, toxic dead weight, who was pulling you all down? Now his Owife can put up with all his awesomeness (insert sarcasm here lol) while you and your children enjoy a much better and new life because he is not in it. I know its hard now financially, but life really does get better without the idiot, ask me how I know lol. I really do hope you and your children will get to spend the Christmas in NY and I am keeping my fingers crossed for all of you. 🙂

            • Yes! Phil Collins’ In The Air was in this movie as well…I grew up in the eighties and my kids and I are fans of the big screen. My daughter just graduated with a degree in film and media studies. I have great respect for artists who have vision and what movies can teach us. Click, a film that reminds us to treasure marriage and family. A River Runs Through It. Shawshank. Fly Away Home. The Descendents. Beautiful stuff. Netflix is pretty wonderful too. Lol

  • Yes, chutesandladders, yes!

    Because I already had my crying jag today, all I can think of is the episode of Louie with the neighbor kid Never, who throws a rug out a window and sharts in the tub because ‘My mom says any choice I make is okay because I love myself!”

  • Great take-down of an insane little article.

    I think what gets me the most is that she claims she’s being a good wife and treating him like a king while lying and breaking promises.

    The interesting thing, though, is how open she is about being exactly what you say cheaters – a narc.

  • PLEASE HELP. Ok, I know this is off topic. But today I discovered my ex, but not yet ex husband is seeing another woman who has two kids. His girlfriend has a picture of her, her two kids, my ex and his two kids from a previous relationship as her cover picture on facebook. We have a four month old son he has never seen. Wtf???? Btw, I didn’t go looking, a friend told me. I don’t like Facebook and am deleting my account next week. I’m not surprised he’s dating…it’s integrating his kids and her kids that’s confusing. Plus my soon to be ex mother in law has never once asked to see her grandkid but is obsessed with her other two. Please reply. It’s seriously messing with my head.

    • Do you consider the children from a previous relationship to be your children? Or do they have a mother who is in the picture? If this isn’t about being concerned for their welfare, then be ever so grateful that your own child is not part of the circus!! If their grandmother is that cold and has rejected your child, be ever so grateful. I can understand that the rejection must sting, and will be hard for your child to understand, but I believe that having these people in your lives would be so much worse! If you’re getting a free pass from the mind games and manipulative behavior, then count your blessings. Trying to raise children with disordered people who want to be actively involved is a kind of hell on earth.

      • They were like my own kids and he cut off contact. I do count my blessings that he seems to be uninterested. But I can’t pretend I’m a lamppost and that none of this matters. I know we don’t need to untangle the skein but I need enough of a theory to be at peace. If we pass a guy on the side of the road eating another guy’s brains we don’t ignore it and just keep walking until it’s too far behind us to see anymore. This sort of thing is monsterous to me and I would like to know the nature so I can at least kill it in my mind. I’m strong but this is setting me back a bit. Thanks for replying.

        • My interpretation of that is that his girlfriend is trying to bind him to her by making his kids and hers one big family – and he’s going along with it to keep her.

          It’s sad when parents only care about their connections to their kids as connections to the other parent.

          I don’t know if you want him in your kids’ life or not. If you don’t, then just try not to think about it. If you do, wait and he or his mom may change their minds later.

          • Thanks. I guess where I’m coming from is that I suspect my son and I may have got away. But seeing him suddenly introducing his kids and being a part of her kids’ life makes me scared he may arbitrarily change his mind about his son later. I guess I was trying to understand his motivations so I could predict future motivations. I know. …crazy making. There’s no part of his actions that are positive. You don’t start making a new family when your wife is six months pregnant. I wish he would fall off a cliff. But any opinion is welcome because it gives me another perspective.

            • He’s f***ed up. That’s all you need to know. See a lawyer. Go to court and get full, legal custody. If he isn’t paying child support, file for that. If he doesn’t pay, have the court attach his wages. Document via court proceedings that he is not involved in your child’s life. Keep a record of important occasions like birthdays, christenings, that he fails to attend or acknowledge. Take screenshots of any social media postings that show him involved with those other kids. Then let it go. Let the lawyers handle it. The less you are involved with thinking about what he’s doing, the better off you are–although I know how hard this will be for you.

              You are correct. “You don’t start making a new family when your wife is six months pregnant.” Unless you are a character-disordered cheater. You really are in “early days” so of course this hurts like someone is pouring acid on you. But even so, start building your own fabulous life with your baby.

            • Thanks Laj. It’s been a year since I caught him and moved away. We’re no contact. Child support is filed with state but he’s fighting the amount so it’s on hold. He’s been dating women since before we were married, so not surprised about that part. It was that he would integrate his kids with another woman and her kids so shortly after tearing apart our integrated family. The kids’ bio mom is borderline personality and pretty messed up. My stepdaughter considered me more of a mother than her mom. Bio mom admitted she didn’t want kids but still has half custody. I can’t fathom who would put their kids into another chance for losing a parental figure. I can’t understand who would do that. And I can’t understand who would play dad to new kids. But yes, my ex is textbook narc and I think Diana is right too that he’s passively going along with this woman wanting to integrate so he can keep his supply. I guess I’ll get a screenshot. I doubt the judge will be impressed. We have asked already that he only get supervised visitation. I’m pretty ok in general but discovering this set me back a step.

              • Well, you answered your own question. He’s not like you. You are thinking about spouse, children, family, along with yourself. He’s thinking about his sparkly Narcissist Self. I guess it is pretty typical with some narcissists. They do the “discard” thing and move on, usually having an AP lined up before they let us chumps go. But of course always holding on to some string to tie us to them for kibbles.

                I’m wondering if your X or STBX is living with her? In that case, it might benefit you if he has to show how much the OW has in income and child support for her kids. If that’s the case, don’t let him con the court into thinking that he is sole support for 6 people. I am also wondering if the AP is just a tiny bit jealous of you–you can be sure that you are the topic of conversation regarding child support. And you have a child with this idiot (which is both great for you to have a son and not so great that the father is an idiot) and she doesn’t. So the whole FB cover photo might be just a way to play “I have something you don’t have” with you. Yes, she has the idiot. You have a son. 🙂

              • You or your attorney can compile motions to compel your X to produce docs about who lives where and who pays what. Don’t shortcut this step, especially if he is fighting child support. I hope any CS order that is made goes back to the date of filing. Those guys are so stupid–they create instant arrearages by not paying from the beginning.

            • He and his kids are living with his mother. I don’t know if this woman is also living with them. I don’t think she is an affair partner. He mostly hooked up with strangers and younger women. But you never know. Child support is being handled in his state because of juristiction. Yes, arrears will go back to birth of baby. If he gets the modification he wants it will make a difference of thousands and make his arrears much much smaller. Divorce and custody will be handled in my state. A pic of him dating a woman with two kids is gonna make his argument of having no money look stupid. He may not be paying for anything but the assumption would be that hauling along four kids means you have resources. I totally get the discard part. And I’ve done a lot of reading on narcs. But sometimes my stbxh still severely weirds me out. He was mr. Dad, responsible, good communicator, good career, little league volunteer. None of his crazy will matter once we’re divorced. I guess when they say past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior it’s not true in this case. Stbxh (I refer to as ex because that’s who he is in my mind) fought hard to get fifty fifty custody. He was the stable parent. He started paying child support to his ex without having an official order. They were married for a long time until she had an affair and decided she wanted to date others and then decided she was a lesbian. Btw, ALL of this info I either witnessed or his ex wife TMIed me with. So it’s not his retelling it’s actually how it happened. That’s where my cognitive dissonance comes in. Because of how I saw him handle kids and honesty in the past. Although I’ve no doubt he was cheating on first wife, he just didn’t ever get caught. I think you’re intellectual like me and had to wrap your head around the jackass narc nature and how the narc plays out their phases with their supply. Because you can see that it makes it easier to move on and not take personal. But wasn’t it a total mindfuck at first because you had such a long history? For me I am confused by how fast and how sickly my ex devolved. But also the discrepancy between his past behavior with kids and his current. It’s not just that he’s a narc it’s that he fell off the narc cliff. So yeah. I got my ducks in a row. And make no mistake, I Am Happy that he’s letting us go. When I tell people who knew both of us about him abandoning the baby they are flabbergasted. And I have no answer. When my friend who is a psycholgy grad found out he was posting pics with the new extra family she was speechless. I don’t miss him and I’m not particularly co dependent. I left the minute I had a bit of proof. Once it was confirmed he was answering sex ads I went no contact. I will be fine eventually. Cognitive Dissonance Damnit!

              • I’m so sorry for your situation. I think the difference with how he behaves with the other children and your baby has everything to do with his being a narc. An infant can’t give him kibble yet – no adoring looks, no achievements he can claim as his own, no “I love you, Daddy”, etc. – so, sadly, your sweet baby offers no payoff for him. Infants, by nature, are narcissists. And anyone who’s ever dealt with a narc knows there can be only one sheriff in town! If he’s made no effort to see your child, be certain to document it with a lawyer. If you can make it so he never sees the child, you may be saving that sweet baby a lifetime of hurt. Be brave and strong.

        • girl you need to run!! run far far away from this guy. right now you are nothing to him, and your baby is nothing to him. his life, his days and his thoughts are the new girlfriend and the new kids. i know it hurts but yes, you are very very lucky.

          it is better that he never sees your baby. who is a blessing from God. your life will increase and be better but not if this kind of man continues to control it from afar. My first 2 children i had never saw their dads. yes, it hurt me, but THEY were way better off not knowing the dads. i raised them well, with the morals and the values i and my family have (my parents helped me alot) and they are good, well developed grown ups. now my last 2 who has just had their dad abandoned them are a little messed up. one (12 years) is going thru anger issues at school, with teachers and friends (he is sentimental one and is really hurting on the inside) the littlest one (8 years old)went thru a crying thing. at the drop of a hat he was in tears over the smallest and silliest things, started getting picked on at school. he is doing much better this summer but still cries for his daddy. they are struggles as much as i am because we NEVER thought he would do this to us. most of all the boys never thought daddy would turn his back and not be there for them. it is messed up in a whole different way and on many many levels. AND MY xh DOES NOT CARE WHAT HE IS DOING TO THE CHILDREN, he is like your full of the new woman, the new life, doing what he wants to do with zero responsiblities while i am at home trying to fix my children and make sure they know they are loved and cared about.

          so trust me when i tell you the little bit of pain, hurt and disbelief you are going thru is NOTHING compared what you could be going thru if you continue to beg this man to be part of your baby’s life. you are at peace. i know the hurt you are feeling with my first 2 kids. but it is nothing what i am feeling for my last 2.

          my advice is to move as far away as you can from this asshat. let him alone, and do not TRY To get him to be in your or your baby’s life. the longer he stays away from you and the child, the more legal evidence you have to keep him away forever. (i think it is something like if they dont visit the kid for 3 years then they give up all daddy rights, but i am not sure) sure, your baby will ask you about his dad when he is 5, so you give an answer that is 5 year old acceptable. all i had to say was yes you have a daddy somewhere. i also told my first 2 that if they wanted to met their dads later on in life when they were 16ish i would be happy to find them and set up the introduction. by the time they were 16 they didnt want to met them.

          dont let his fuckupness mess up your life or most importantly your sons life. if he doesnt want to see him when he was born, he will not want to see him or be good to him when he gets older. do you really want this man having weekend visits with your precious baby when he is 5 and telling him how much daddy doesnt like him, never wanted him and how mommy forced him on daddy?

          let it go!!!!

        • oh, and just for clarity. hell yes if i past a guy eating some other guys brains out on the street, i am going to keep walking. hell i am going to run. as far away as i can get and then call the cops. no way in hell would i to try to do anything with someone THAT crazy!!

          be a lamppost and kill it in your mind that your husband is THAT kind of crazy. move, move in with your parents or just out of town and then file for divorce on abandonment and adultery. then enjoy the rest of your life with your precious son.

          • LOL. Thanks mrsvain. And I’m very sorry to hear what your kids are going through. I am living two states away and have been since before my son was born. D day was over a year ago and I moved out immediately. I have filed but we’re not divorced yet. I don’t want him in my kid’s life. But I have heard horror stories here from 2 lawyers about dads seeking custody after years of no contact and winning visitation and or full custody. He has agreed to me having full custody but has not agreed to give up visitations. I’m hoping this new woman and family will distract him. And yes, I marvel at this creature who masquerades as a human. Thank you. I do feel better.

    • Sounds like the apple doesn’t fall to far from the tree….
      Be thankful they don’t’ want or have a relationship with your newborn.
      I feel for you and wish things were different.
      It all hurts no matter the circumstances.
      These assholes don’t’ give a shit about who they hurt.
      I wish you all the best on a clean break.
      And for now Facebook deletion is probably best.
      And tell your friends you don’t’ want to know anything unless it directly involves your safety.

      • Yes, I have always had a love/mostly hate relationship with Facebook and was already going to delete prior to this discovery. I am glad my friend said something. She actually was very hesitant and is a very considerate person with wonderful character. She has a baby as well and has helped keep me sane in single mommyhood. It may not help at all but I passed the info along to my lawyer and am now done with it.

  • i have not read all the comments so I hope this is not a repeat. I have one simple test to see hoe evolved, mature and morally superior to us lowly chumps she is. Lets tell him the whole truth. Or lets let him sleep with who ever seems right and handy at the moment. Since it is normal and healthy as can be seen by anyone I am certain she will not mind. Right?

  • Jesus H. Christ on a cupcake! What a vast wasteland in the obvious shape of a pretzel is the brain of a cheater! How else to come up with such a convoluted “article” (if by article you mean the insane ramblings of a character disordered loon) with such flowery language to describe cheating, whoring, lying, deceit, lack of morals, lack of character and lack of integrity? The title of the article should be “The Miseducation of the Masses About Cheating as Conceived by the Skankiest Skankity-Skank Ho-Bag Ever.”

    People like this make my brain bleed and my ass hurt. No wonder there seems to be an attempt to incrementally dumb down the masses (I’m looking at you “Reality” television). How could a thinking person with any character and integrity read such drivel and say, “Yup! I think she’s on to something!” instead of saying, “What a selfish, self-absorbed, navel-gazing, duplicitous, amoral tramp!” She discusses her boyfriend as a “dish” she likes to consume. I like food and I thoroughly enjoy a good meal, but I don’t share intimacy with food, even when I eat alone. This is a person with no genuine ability to connect in a meaningful way, but instead of looking at herself and recognizing and admitting that she needs help, she attempts to shift focus from her inability to have a genuine connection to another human being to something “new” and edgy. Being a ho is not new and edgy – hoes have been around as long as roaches.

    These cheating pigs from hell should come with a warning label and a tattoo on their forehead warning the rest of us away.

    • Lol, ‘reality’ television in the form of ‘The Bachelor’ aka the ultimate ‘pick-me!’ dance between two dozen women? Theres so many others, I utterly refuse to watch any and all reality tv crap.
      Jesus Christ.

  • Can we say NPD much?
    You could make a drinking game out of the amount of times this skank says “I” but you’d get drunk pretty damn quickly.
    Jesus Christ these people disgust me.

  • Did I miss something, or is it possible that her boyfriend is a cheater, too? As in, maybe he’s a married man?

    I have no problem with what shes’ doing, except for the part about spreading diseases, as long as she is open and honest with her main source of ego stroking, and as long as she doesn’t subject children to her arbitrary, impulse-driven lifestyle. She’s an empty vessel, though, that’s for damned sure.

    Of course, she probably will have children one day, and be a narcissistic, avoidant, neglectful mother (if you can call that a mother), and then we’ll be treated to an article about how abusive neglect is actually good for children, as it teaches them to be [insert word salad].

    • Yeah, she’s been with him for years and they aren’t married? He’s either married to someone else or she’s lying.

      • I don’t believe she’s lying at all. I believe this is all true and she thinks this is all peachy. Why? Because my ex, to this day, will tell anyone who will listen that it wasn’t his many affairs and flings over the years (which I knew nothing about) that destroyed our marriage, it was me, my lack of whatever and us just simply ‘growing apart’. He feels that despite his screwing loads of other people that he gave me everything I wanted and needed and that I am kind of nuts for pointing out that while I thought he was out working and doing whatever he was actually chasing bimbos and yes, I believe this was the major contributor to the breakdown of our marriage. He cannot CANNOT see that his shitty behaviour for years is what destroyed whatever we once had between us, even before I knew what was going on.

        I see the same thing happening down the road to the author of the article. She’ll probably marry this poor sod, pop out a few kids, continue to fuck around and then blame him for not fulfilling her needs and say that spreading her legs for anything with a pulse for years had absolutely nothing to do with the marriage breaking down as she gave him everything he needed or wanted and it was actually him who was lacking and caused the ‘connection’ to be broken.

        Mark my words.

        • Same here, Nord. In his mind, he was “really good to me”. Yeah…..except for dragging my heart through the muck and the mire for 3 years, and nearly destroying me in the process.

          He sums it up as us just not seeing eye-to-eye. Wow….they are delusional AND stupid.

  • Omg she sounds like the PR Manager for ‘Hell’s Visitor Bureau and Convention Center’

  • This bitch could be my X, maybe she is my ex?

    the selfish selfindulgent word vomit of justification is beyond that of normal cognitive function.


  • She just sounds like a not particularly intelligent, emotionally stunted woman who is that little bit too stupid to realise she needs to keep her mouth closed. Her emotional maturity sounds like it hasn’t made it much past her toddlerhood, where everyone and everything is seen in relation to “me, me, me”. I think she’s been reading too many Mills and Boon novels, her writing sounds like she thinks she’s living in the pages of a badly written book. Incredibly childish, but unfortunately for Mr Chocolate, he’ll be the one who gets trashed.

  • Wholly shit. I would have said holy shit but this person is wholly shit.
    This article and its ensuing comments from all of you (I read them all) were just so awesome and eye opening and even better, solidifying to my ordeal. I took quite a few screen shots of some of the comments so as I may use them due to them being such a bunch of easily understand summaries of insanity. I always knew something was wrong with her thinking processes. The constant contradictions, some being in the same sentence, were very maddening. Not angry. Mad as in crazy. This shit started making my head hurt literally. I often just thought she was stupid. (That is still debatable.)
    This is my first time on this site. Found this link via FB page (one of many) that have been helping me make sense if it all and heal. I just finished subscribing. I like the vibe here too. Seems as though the majority of you are a bit further along in the process and that may be your appeal to me, maybe your just less whiny and you all are more empowered. That is definitely your vibe. I’m stoked. I’m looking forward to advancing in this healing. Thanks to what I read, everything, I now feel, not just know with my brain, but FEEL, the truth that my saga is not a loss at all but a net gain. My only hope is to continue to mitigate the damage done and that wull be done, to our 4 year old little boy.

    I have been real scared of late to keep digging through all the shit (memories) in my head (due to the pain) that I must in order to hit my case home in court for custody of our son. There is a disconnect now that I really needed to remember but not relive all the details. I’m representing myself pro se against an attorney who has been doing this as long as I’ve been alive. Kinda kills any righteous embodiment that the truth gives me.
    Thank you to you all. You all are awesome! Time for me to go kick some ass.

    • e, welcome to Chump Nation. My ex was not only a Cheater but a Narc and the best advice anyone ever gave me was to hire a lawyer. Pro se is difficult with a cooperating spouse but with someone who’s been living a lie it becomes a bit more of a challenge. Most communities have free legal clinics, I did a lot of research too online. What you need to focus on is the finances. What you and your son need. And make a list. Negotiate from there and get that proposed settlement into his lawyers hands as quickly as possible. Best wishes to you and your son. You both deserve better.

    • Welcome, e. Recovery from betrayal is a highly individual process. So sorry you are still in the very painful early days. Going pro se can be very helpful if you do your homework, as some judges give pro se spouses a lot of latitude. But do that homework. Receipts! Think back to ways he used resources that took away from the family. Document stuff. Be ready to call witnesses he won’t want to see in court if that is allowed. In my county, there are attorneys to advise those who are pro se. Use that help! Jackass’s X kicked the butts of two different attorneys he hired. She had some advantage as she works for a family law firm. Read everything. Get advice. And good luck! Keep us posted on how it goes.

    • E, please, please get a lawyer, if the posts here rang bells representing yourself pro se is a very bad idea. Our justice system doesn’t give a shit about truth, you need a lawyer. Jedi hugs!

  • Chumplady, this post and comments gave me an idea for a future blog post. What do all us chumps think would happen if roles were reversed? If your cheater, same personality, same actions, found out that YOU cheated on them. How would that play out, how would they react to all the same mumbo jumbo that they spew? You parade your young kids all around town with paramour, you spend family money paying their rent, buying for their children. I know on my case someone would have wound up dead or in jail, probably both.

    • WaW .. “I know on my case someone would have wound up dead or in jail, probably both”.
      This most definitely been my outcome with the ex.

      • Sorry for bad editing — This most definitely would have been my outcome with the ex.

      • same here Maree, you wouldn’t believe how jealous he was of me that he would outright cuss other men out if he saw them staring, gawking, checking me out. Can you imagine if I had sex with some other guy? Oh yeah “in my case someone would have wound up dead or in jail, probably both”. too.

  • Holy cow. I heard people like this existed but here’s the living evidence.

    This bitch totally defines that overlapping circle of a Venn diagram of Narcissistic Sociopath . Fucking scary.

    I think you’re right Chump Lady. She’s some pathetic hillbilly living in the backwoods of Appalachia reading too many Danielle Steele novels while cooking her meth!

  • If you try to “judge” these kind of people, they try to turn it back on you and accuse you of being judgmental, narrow-minded and snobby (who wants to be that?). I have (I mean, had) a friend like this, who I strongly suspect has been hooking up with married men.

  • I had this thought on the way home this afternoon: these articles are just another way a narcissist cheater plays the “I’ve got a secret game.” For this one, it’s not enough to chump her boyfriend and the spouses and partners of those with whom she has her affairs, she needs to broadcast her secret to the world. The anonymity is merely using someone else’s blog or news site like a secret phone app or secret FB page or a batphone. “I’m carrying on an affair right under your nose. See this article explains how awesome my life is. None of you are the boss of me. I’ve got a secret. It’s not that I’m having an affair or many affairs; it’s that I’m having an affair and when you read this, you won’t know for sure who I am or whether I am your girlfriend….”

    It’s not the alcohol; it’s the pain-killing high. It’s not the cocaine; it’s the feeling of omnipotence. It’s not the sex; it’s the power and control over others. The more I read, the more I am convinced.

    • I agree, my cheater of. 23 years whom O foolishly trusted during the 48 Dday when he could no longer snow me said, in regards to the entire relationship, “well I fooled you didn’t I?” Disordered? Nah, evil.

    • Nailed it, LaJ. The article itself becomes a vehicle for cranking up the power trip to a level unobtainable when it’s just her boyfriend she’s controlling.

      An audience, even a mostly critical one, is required for the mega-thrill to register with her. Because then she knows she got folks to make her central. It’s all reward with none of the risk, since she never reveals her identity. My, isn’t she provocative?! Friggin’ narciopath.

      I’d bet the worst sound for someone like that is crickets. Or a yawn. Or a thousand yawning crickets.

  • Disgusting excuse for a human being…..but aren’t they all?
    Selfish, self absorbed numb fucks!
    Me Me Me……

    • “Selfish, self absorbed numb fucks!
      Me Me Me……”

      …because, you know that being HONEST and thinking of ANYONE else EXCEPT yourself isn’t “natural”…



  • When I first read Anon’s self-indulgent drivel, I felt:
    pity for her, how can she believe what she says, and so sad if she thinks that’s what being in a relationship is…
    Anger on behalf of her boyfriend,
    Disgust that she promotes cheating as ‘normal’

  • My XH told me during a counseling session that I should take into account how he grew up. His father cheated on his mother, so, therefore, in his mind it was ok. Right up there with him telling me he wasn’t committing adultery because the women he cheated with weren’t married. So tired of excuses and lack of responsibility from these people.

  • “him telling me he wasn’t committing adultery because the women he cheated with weren’t married.” what were you in his eyes then? A fucking lamp post? What a fucking loser!

  • AnnieW56, your ex sounds more than just ridiculous and despicable. Has he ever had his IQ checked? Mensa material he ain’t.

  • Really?

    I assumed this was written by the fat cow, Christian porn LT MARRIED “lover” of my asshat, or maybe written by asshat himself.

    Yo, fuckwads…if you are consciously NOT telling your partner who is in the committed, recognized relationship with you, it’s CHEATING. You are NOT being the better spouse, lover or whatever by fucking random people outside of your recognized, committed relationships. Get the fuck over yourselves!

    Go fuck whomever you desire. FIRST come clean to the person you are supposedly legally committed to. I’d bet they would also like to sample the many favors of love, just like you, but without being tied to a sociopath.

  • CL, I love your cartoon! My cheater said something very similar “I’m not defined by my actions”…I was shock at first, now I feel I can laugh out loud…and I guess it is almost the same as when he told me “why should I be “judged” for ONE thing I did wrong?”…as if having an affair with a subordinate, leaving your family for her, moving in with the other woman (and playing “dad” to her daughter), even before filing for divorce was ONE thing and did not lead to anything else…and we still have a long way to go, especially now after I moved back to my hometown and they followed us 2000 miles to be close to our kids…like he says “I left you, not the kids”….

    • “I left you, not the kids”….

      I believe that’s on page 34 of the cheater how-to manual. Mine said the same thing, verbatim.

      But, um, inasmuch as he’s not around, like a real dad, he sure as shit did leave the kids.

      As long as he’s happy. (Page 1.)

      • Gosh, I think, Miss Sunshine, that we would all have such fun with a real copy of that handbook. I wonder if you scanned a cheater’s brain would it be missing something? Lol

    • Yes, PC, they ALL say this. Funny how making that one decision to fuck someone outside of your marriage has no impact on everything else that comes along. These people have so little introspection that you don’t see much of anything real from them. My uncle divorced my aunt years ago and has memories that simply are not real? He still casts himself in the starring role. And you don’t see these cheaters doing what really matters. It is all about them. Being there, being present is just a show. One of the great things about running away from your family is that you are cutting your parenting time in half. My ex thinks my children enjoy spending time with his new family. Truth is they tolerate it. More and more they are learning WHO HE IS. And no longer respect the man who did leave his family. That line is such a crock of shit.

  • Lordy, what a tosser.

    Chump lady, I have a question for you but I don’t have Outlook (long story) and would like to have an email address to write to you at. Could you oblige please?

    Thank you,

    Dark Horse

  • This is one of the most frightening and sickening things I have ever read. No empathy, no conscience, no compassion or acknoweledgement that other people exist as anything other than simple pawns in the game she is playing. Sick,twisted,depraved,and just pure evil. This level of sociopathy is only a step or two removed from some of the most notorious people in history.

  • Someone above posted that the author knows, deep down, that she’s doing something wrong. This seems right to me. It reads like a self-serving story she can tell herself in those moments when little trickles of guilt or shame drip into her mind. Gotta get to sleep somehow.

  • “If you met me, you wouldn’t hate me. In fact, you would probably like me right off the bat. ”

    Would this be because what we get is a phoney bunch of crap and not the ‘real’ person? If she comes out and says “hey, I cheat and lie, and sneak around and will screw anything with a pulse if I feel like it.. and I can justify it all…” Then would I like her? I’m thinking no….

    So these people that “like” her, only like the act she’s putting on.. her mask that hides her true self, the selfish jerk that eats people and shits them out like they’re appetizers at an all you can eat buffet…

  • If this “free sex” it’s so wonderful why doesn’t she let her boyfriend enjoy it? Supposedly she loves him, doesn’t she?

  • ah yes what a pile of condescending pseudo-intellectual drivel. This lady is really a piece of work.

    “I suppose I’m lucky, in that I’ve never felt particularly constrained by society’s ideas of what a relationship should be.”

    It is fascinating how people who lack any form of ethics believe that they can justify absolutely anything by claiming to be liberated from societies hang-ups.

    Spread HIV and herpes? sure
    Lie? not a problem
    Abandon Children? why be constrained by societies view that you should provide a child with a stable home life.

    The idea that being dishonest is somehow a form of liberation is nonsense that only self deluded cheaters believe.

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