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Chump Lady Answers Her Search Term Questions

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Google-SearchI have a perverse interest in Google analytics. I’m always curious to see how people wash up on the shores of Chump Lady. Just what exactly did you Google to find me?

The site has pretty awesome SEO (search engine optimization, for the less geeky among you). Google most infidelity terms and I’m often on the first page.

But some people must use Google like their own personal Magic 8 ball. “When is he coming back?” “Why won’t she speak to me?” Google as life oracle.

So today I thought I would answer my search term questions. Not fully formed or perhaps just succinct, hey, they deserve an answer too, right?

If a guy lies do you give him another chance

Depends on what he lied about. Does my ass look fat in these jeans? “No honey, you have the lithe hips of a sylvan goddess.” I’d let that one pass. But if he lies habitually, if he lies reflexively about small things, if you catch him in a giant whopper — these are indications of his character. And no, I probably would not give him another chance. Because you said GUY, not husband — and you aren’t that invested now, and do you really want to shackle yourself to a person with lousy character for a lifetime? Cut your losses.

misogynist NPD husband

Misogynist? NPD? Why isn’t he your EX-husband?

what happens to the narcissist after divorce?

They dissolve into mist, get absorbed into topsoil, fertilize the grass, are eaten by cows, and expelled as the flatulence contributing to global warming.

No. I wish. No really, they stay narcissistic. And if they have children with you, they’ll probably keep trying to torture you with their bullshit as long as they can. If you don’t have children with a narcissist, then stop wondering what happens to them and count your blessings that they’re gone.

narcissist says he misses me

I’m sure he does. All kibbles are good kibbles. Stop being kibbles.

bf loves me but won’t commit says I’m a time bomb

People who love you don’t call you “time bomb.” Dump him.

cheating husband always crying

Poor sausage. Kleenex, visine, and then — no contact. Much harder to hear his crying when he’s somewhere else.

should I ask husband for proof that he ended emotional affair

As opposed to what? Just taking his word for it? That it was only emotional? That it ended? Google “key logger” and “voice activated recorder.”

would you forgive your wife if she was a sex addict in the past?

By sex addict do you mean cheater? Or do you mean someone who was very promiscuous before they met you? If she’s copping to “sex addiction” (a made-up affliction according to many mental health professionals), I’m guessing she means “serial cheater” (the less PC term for it). It’s fine if you want to forgive her. I just wouldn’t stay married to her.

girls are cheating pieces of shit

No, cheaters are pieces of shit. No gender has the market cornered on being a piece of shit. Stop being bitter. It’s an unfortunate stage to distrust the entire other gender after you’ve been chumped — move through it quickly please.

your capacity to trust when you grow up in the aftermath of your fathers affair because when you were a child and your mother never got over it because your parents never dealt with the pain from the afair so it was taken out on the kids.

Wow. Thank you for the public service reminder not to stay together for the kids.

trust a traveling cheater

No. Change the locks.

what do you call a person that thinks everyone has to abide by him

God? Sir? Don’t call this person.

skinny hollom hooker cream when fucking a huge monster cock

Uh. I think you have the wrong site. I can’t help you with your “hollom” kink, whatever that is.

not guilty for making mistress pregnant

Paternity test? But just a hunch… I think you’re guilty.

my husband made his prostitute power of attorney

Just wow. I’m sorry.

gaslighting is the dumbest thing ever just retarded stupidity

I totally agree with you.

wife says I love you but I’m not in love with you

She’s cheating. Welcome to Chump Lady. Glad you found us.

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • After getting chumped, one of my new hard and fast boundaries is a zero tolerance lie policy.

    Someone lies, I’m out. I’m not going to untangle their skein. I’m moving on.

    • Same here. In all relationships, intimate or less. That includes lies by omission. Lying has always been a big deal breaker for me but that boundary wasn’t as airtight as it should’ve been.
      I realize now that you don’t have to be lying to ME to be a shitty person. A liar is a liar. It’s just not your turn to be lied to yet, but your number will get called eventually.

      From the Google searches, ironically I think “Time Bomb” is a pretty fair description of a relationship with an NPD. It’s not a matter of IF it blows up, just WHEN the idealization ends and the devalue/discard/cheating/general mindfuckery begins. Thank god I retired from the Bomb Squad.

      • My soon to be ex wife was always lying in the beginning of our relationship. It just wasn’t to me. That was one big red flag I should had acted on. She lied about everything when talking to other people. After we got married I sat her down after one particular lie where she exaggerated the damage of something in order to get a little more money out of the people responsible for the damage. I sat her down and I said “Mona I don’t want to be those kind of people who lie and back stab to get ahead. Lets not do that anymore okay?” Of course she never stopped and now I am where I am and know that she is a terrible cheater. I now realize that 95% of what comes out of her mouth is a lie and the remaining 5% is an attempt to deflect the conversation.

        • Fred — hell to the yes. My ex recently did just that when he and our daughter were mistakenly given the key card to an already occupied hotel room on their vacation together. He threw a big, angry fit with the front desk so the hotel would give him a discount on the room. Then he boasted about it to our daughter in the elevator, saying it was all for show — he really wasn’t that upset.

          This is his idea of good parenting. Ass.

          • That’s exactly the kind of thing she did.

            If the restaurant didn’t cook her steak just right she would keep complaining until the manager would say “Okay everyone here eats for free”

            Or if we were at the movies she would complain about how the teenagers were so noisy behind us until the manager gave us free passes to another movie.

            This stuff made me so uncomfortable. It was very shady behavior. Something you would expect from a con artist. I developed a serious case of Social Anxiety. For a long time I didn’t know what was wrong with me.

            In recent months I had been looking back and I now realize all my Social Anxiety was caused by HER. Every time we went out she caused some kind of scene that violated my value system and made me extremely uncomfortable. So I stopped going out with her so much.

            Ironically that anxiety problem is one of her primary excuses for cheating on me “I just needed someone to do stuff with because you never want to go any where” “I wasn’t looking to replace you Fred, I just wanted someone to go out with and do the things you don’t like to do”

            • Fred, my husband was that way. He’d start up with some poor low level clerk as if they could do anything and he’d complain, complain, complain. One time it was that the escalators should be reversed. OMG, it got to the point when he’d call a clerk over and I’d just mosey away.

              I am so aware that I was not true to my values when I was with him and that is the biggest lesson (among many) that I have had to face.

            • “If the restaurant didn’t cook her steak just right she would keep complaining until the manager would say “Okay everyone here eats for free”

              Or if we were at the movies she would complain about how the teenagers were so noisy behind us until the manager gave us free passes to another movie.”

              Nightmare…

              My ex-wife lies constantly, but they’re normally not huge, blatant, outright examples of bullshit. There’s ambiguity engineered into them. I would say that she’s more guilty of distortion and manipulation, rather than outright lying. For example, in her mind she wasn’t having an affair because she’d already “given up” on our marriage.

              “In recent months I had been looking back and I now realize all my Social Anxiety was caused by HER. Every time we went out she caused some kind of scene that violated my value system and made me extremely uncomfortable. So I stopped going out with her so much.”

              I had a similar issue, although my reluctance to go out with her was related to different things. If she drank, she got nasty (sometimes very nasty). She also had an embarrassing habit of making every conversation about her. She bragged a lot. Occasionally she’d point out some of my shortcomings to our friends. When it was just her and I things were usually OK. We were capable of having a good time.

              Probably the worst thing was the post-socialising punishment that would sometimes be dealt out. This usually involved telling me I was anti-social, hated her friends, behaved inappropriately etc. The truth is that I was normally busy in the kitchen. People would come in and talk to me, and I would catch up with everyone over dinner (or whatever meal I was making). I didn’t hate her friends and I certainly didn’t do anything inappropriate. I did come to dread the shakedown, though, and over time retreated away from conversation. I’d be present, but not very forthcoming.

            • This exactly! Never realized it until I was divorced. Any event in a restaurant with ex and her family was a huge embarrassment causing me huge anxiety.

              Her family was once asked to leave a Bob Evans restaurant for using bad language! WHO DOES THAT?

              • I don’t care who you are, that’s funny! Bob Evans! One more thing, I wish I had a dime for every time I said “Who Does That?” Until ChumpLady, I had no answer. Now I know. . . a narcissist.

        • This! My ex was always lying and manipulating people. I’d hear him on the phone making up all kinds of stuff to people. I even found myself supporting it “oh, you can blame me for us being late” etc, like we were in it as a team. I sure was a chump to think that he would never turn this power on me.

          • Oh, and I also have to admit that it wasn’t until I heard him lying to his affair partner after we split up, the person he ‘loved’ so much he’d nuke his family, that I realized the people he ‘loves’ aren’t an exception worth his honesty at all.

      • “In all relationships, intimate or less”.
        This.
        Reconnected with high school bestie at a reunion. Made a lunch date, she FB messaged me she couldn’t make it because she had to meet with her sister to decide what to do about their mom’s now-obvious dementia. Then, during time of our cancelled lunch, she posted on FB, “At Disneyland with (hubby)!”
        Disconnected.

        • Why do they lie about shit that doesn’t even need to be hidden! Why couldn’t she just say “I’m sorry but that day doesn’t work because I’m going to Disneyland with my husband.”

          Not that hard.

          A friend of mine dumped a guy she was dating because he lied like that too. He made up this huge story about how his dad had fallen off a roof and was in the hospital. The truth? His dad was fine. Her ex just wanted to go home for lunch.

          • She did. The big dad lie was the final straw and she got rid of him post haste.

            After that, a trail of all his lies started trickling out. She met one of his exes and they started talking. When he broke up with this girl and started dating my friend, apparently, instead of just saying he was dating someone new, he said he’d gone to New York for a sex change operation!

            We all thought “wtf? Why?” Why couldn’t he have just said he had a new girlfriend? Did he think no one would notice that he hadn’t had a sex change? XD

    • Yep! This! Zero tolerance for lies! It is now a hard and fast rule for me. Especially if they lie about small stuff, can you imagine the Pandora’s box of crap they are hiding? But the good news is, my bullshit detector is in perfect working order after a 40 year hiatus and I’m working it to death! You lie. You need to serve that crap somewhere else!

      • Wow. Just realised this, that from early in the marriage, I would be furious and preoccupied with ‘the withholding of information’ as a lie.
        Of course, I thought that if I educated him about it and he got some insight…

        [Chump!]

        • I had the “withholding information” about past relationships…he made it sound like he had been waiting all his life for me (at 36) and that everyone else was not relevant. So I never got full stories….then there were always these strange “lies” about time: something that lasted an hour he would say lasted three hours, a week would be ten days. He would alter the time on practically anything as long as it didn’t coincide with my recollection of the events . It always bothered me but I would let it go because it didn’t seem worth arguing about. Of course, on DDay when he said that his affair had lasted 6 months and he was going to end it on a long trip they were taking, I knew he was lying and later discovered it was a year and they were actually celebrating an anniversary. So, time matters…

          • boy, SAChump…this is all my reality as well. I actually found out – two years into the marriage and from a mutual friend – that he was actually ENGAGED to a girl he had told me was “just a girlfriend.” When I asked him about it, he said that I knew they were long-term and that they were serious (so why wouldn’t I have figured out there was a ring involved?!). I just knew she dumped him because “he was a jerk.”

            I remain friendly with her and found out she called off the engagement when she discovered he was cheating on her. That was more than 25 years before he did it to me (and blew up our family). They don’t change.

        • Patsy I thought that too. I went out of my mind applying reason and logic. How could that not get through to a grown and educated woman?

          I now understand that she has the emotional capacity to of a 3 year old. I can’t reason with her anymore than I could with a toddler.

        • Withholding information is all about control–controlling what you know, controlling the narrative, controlling your reactions, controlling you.

          • Ugh! That’s exactly what it was all about, control. My stomach still feels sick just thinking about all his lies! I remember some of our last moments together…I picked up a hand full of books and told him to “shut the fuck!” I told him that I was going to smash his face in if he told even one more fucking lie. Again…ugh!

            • When Jackass started to lie about having had a FB page before encountering MOW, in spite of the TIME STAMP on FB, I just said, “You lie and lie and lie and lie.”

      • Exactly, Roberta! You know what beautiful thing came from this crapfest of seeing then-husband’s mask slip? I no longer tolerate lies — big, little, whatevs. Because it’s a person’s comfort with telling the little ones that reveals the potential comfort with telling the whoppers. I used to think there was no connection between the two. But, oh, yes there is.

        The other cool thing is that, like your bullshit detector, my sparkle radar is exquisitely tuned. I can spot charming fakery at 50 paces. When I find myself near a person who sparkles, my body practically buzzes now. Thanks, creepy-masked-man wasband!

        • OMG. On a non related topic (sorry). I was walking to my mailbox feeling sorry for myself because I’m expecting to get a judgement for a ridiculously reduced child support order when I realized I needed to stop moping. So I pulled my head out of my ass and said “I am Rally Squirrel motherfuckers”. So thanks for being an inspiration.

          Back to topic. Weird thing is my ex was super honest when we first met. In fact it didn’t seem like he could lie. Cause my bs meter was pretty honed pre ex. Hell, he was honest and caring and empathetic..blah whatevs. I am Rally Squirrel…….. 😉

          • Rally,

            That is a classic tactic disordered people use to reel us in and get us to commit to them. They over share all the details of their lives and childhood. They make you feel so special to them.

            When I first got in involved with Mona to the point where i was spending the night with her more frequently, every morning she got up before me and made ma great lunch to take to work. No one ever did that for me in my life. These were good lunches too not something cheap.

            I thought so was so wonderful and perfect. She used to disclose all these tidbits of her life that are normally considered private with me in the very beginning stages of our relationship. It really made me feel like I was something special and important to her that she could share all this and do all this for me.

            It seems like as soon as we got married all that stopped. It just came to a dead end. Suddenly I wasn’t good enough. Nothing I did was right.

            It is so hard to let her go because I crave those things from the beginning. I miss those lunches. I miss that in depth sharing. I thought it meant something. I am now coming to accept that it was all just part of her game of manipulating me. It was all about her getting her kibbles. It nothing to do with me and my well being.

            • we could sure use an edit button to fix our typos. I guess i should get into the habit of proof reading before i submit.

          • Holy smoked mackerel, This chump’s name…you just made my motherfucking day. 😉

            Your other comment reminds me that my wasband used to tell me that he was incapable of cheating on me because he’s half Jewish “and the guilt would kill me.” HAHAHA! GOOD ONE! Man, I bought that at the time, too.

    • Ditto.

      One strike and you are out….done. I don’t have the time or energy to mess with head cases anymore.

    • I’m with you. What I’m struggling with however, is how easily my three children lie now. They learned from a master, and it kills me.

      • I am having this same problem, Chutes. Not only the lies, but the way I see my son deal with his first relationship. He withholds and says he is busy when she wants to talk. This is exactly my STBX. At least he doesn’t scream and swear at her like his father…yet. I plan to have a serious sit down with him about that. My oldest daughter has become selfish and hurtful just like him and makes sure that her words hurt. My youngest is still basically sweet, but when she is angry she is just like him and says the meanest things possible. He taught them that verbal abuse is the norm. I SO regret not leaving him after the third date or so…..but now it’s been 36 year. I am truly a chump and my grown up kids are suffering from his lies and angry attitude.

    • Did anyone get the crap, “I don’t tell you everything because you have anger issues”? I got this a lot when I found out (from others) that he went out to lunch or out running with another woman. Yeah, like I’m supposed to be loving and supportive when I find out he’s out cavorting with another woman.

      A liar is a liar is a liar.

      • I’m feeling anxiety just reading this. I once heard the STBX tell someone, “Don’t ask a question when you already know the answer. That’s how you set someone up to lie. If you just state what you already know then you remove the necessity for lying.”

        Uh, yeah, No. The Lyin’ King lies directly, lies by omission, lies by half-truths and lies to you when you make a statement of fact of things to which you already know the truthful answer. He believes honesty involves withholding information. His picture should be the cover photo for any article dealing with passive-aggressive behavior, which is his supplement of choice to the lying.

        I would not believe him if he told me it was night and it was dark outside. He put the LIE in LIAR. He knew I hated being lied to, so he did it. I hate lying the way Joan Crawford hated wire hangers. The way he has operated with me is if it was something I enjoyed, he made sure we ceased doing it. If it was something that I hated, we did more of it. If it was something that would make me happy, he made it a point not to do it or give it. If it was something that would hurt me, he did it and/or did more of it. Thus, he made lying and cheating his relationship drug of choice.

        What a doucheturd.

        • Chump Princess,

          You just reminded me of half-truths. That’s how my ex “got away” with a lot of his lies. He fed me half-truths so he wasn’t completely lying. I read somewhere that disordered personalities just give you enough truth so they could tell themselves that they were technically not lying. For instance, in my case, I called him while he was driving home and was running late and we had company.

          Me: “Where are you now?” (I meant which part of town.)
          Him: “I’m on my way home.” (He was out of town, coming back from the AP’s house.)

          See? He wasn’t lying. Barf.

          • Exactly. Those half truths became my H’s mode too. “I am stopping at the grocery store”…..He did…for ONE stupid item, then met his EA (supposedly only EA). Lots of other half truths……The worst part is he still says he didn’t lie and that omissions are not lies. I felt like I was talking to a second grader. I guess I don’t even know who this dickhead really is even though I have been with him for 36 years. I finally have a lawyer’s appointment though.

            • My X lied when he was in the throes of a gambling addiction, and then it stopped when he kicked that habit for good many many years ago… or so I thought. When D-Day arrived, I realized he had only stopped lying about gambling, because he no longer needed to. He’d replaced it with lies about everything else, including a new addiction to strippers, subsequent affairs with whores, how he spent his time away from home, and even what he ate for lunch!

              The shock was un.believ.able. But what disturbed me equally to discover was that he learned it from what I thought were his reasonably normal parents who are… you guessed it, damn crazy too. It came to light when they had to cover for his affair and abandonment with their family and friends.

              “We told them you weren’t feeling well and that’s why you weren’t at Christmas. It’s true after all so it’s ok, it’s just not the WHOLE truth.”

              “At the country club, we just denied knowing anything about his affair with a college student waitress there. Because we don’t really know the details so it’s still kind of the truth”

              “Even though the psychiatrist said he’s mentally disordered and ill, let’s not use those words when talking about it with people. It’s a bit harsh, he just has some challenges- that’s much better.”

              And my all time personal favorite…
              “I asked him about that diagnosis of sociopathy he received. He said he doesn’t think he is one, and so I think the head psychiatrist at that hospital is just wrong.”

              Oh, now I get it. So you actually did breed him to be the nutjob predator he is. thanks for that

              • Oh, my knight, just had to say my STBX also had a gambling addiction, with all the lying, half truths, omissions and only owningupmto what he’d already been busted for. It was actually the deceit that blew my mind, rather than the gambling. Ripped me apart.

                I stayed with him while he moved from gambling addiction, to online gaming addiction for a few years, then he finally got out of the cycle (or so I thought). Turns out he moved from online gaming to screwing a hyena. I just didn’t know for four years.

                I think the reason I kicked him out immediately on d-day and never pick me danced was that awful sickening realisation that he had never become honest again after the gambling and that the deception and manipulation he put me through with that was NOT the result of the addiction having a hold on him but actually just who he was. I knew I would just get the same drip feeding, blame shifting about the affair and there is no way in hell I could have survived that again.

                God, another ten years of my life wasted on a lying, cheating, mind-fucking loser because I forgave him for the gambling. I wish I had known enough to walk away then. I am so glad to be free of him now that I understand what he is (or as free as I can be, with children still to raise).

        • The way he has operated with me is if it was something I enjoyed, he made sure we ceased doing it. If it was something that I hated, we did more of it. If it was something that would make me happy, he made it a point not to do it or give it. If it was something that would hurt me, he did it and/or did more of it

          THIS! It’s still amazes me when I read this that it is real and it happened to others too. Nearly 2 years later I have moments where I am still confused and doubt myself. But that is exactly, EXACTLY what he did he to me. It’s no wonder I’m scewed up!

    • Oh (insert deity of choice here) this hits so close to home.
      H and I are in counseling (not necessarily to reconcile but to at least get me to a better emotional place) and we have gotten to the point where he told me the timeline of the affair (it was 4.5 YEARS so there was a lot of ground to cover).
      They went on 2 business trips together. I have an email (found the secret email account so I have all sorts of irrefutable proof) where she laments all the times they held each other on the 2 trips. He told me 1 time she had a panic attack and he held her until she felt better. Supposedly that was the only physical contact. When I confronted him with her email he admitted to many “extended hugs” on those trips (Put your fingers in your ears now please) WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK THE DEFINITION OF “HOLDING” SOMEONE IS?!? He said he “could see my point”. Goddamn liar. I do believe we are done here.
      Sorry for the rant. This happened last night. Going to find another Xanax.

  • Oh, I remember so well the searching on Google. Looking and hoping for SOMETHING ANYTHING that would solve my pain, my hurt, my questions. I did not know what was happening, why it was happening and most of all: how to go on. I kept looking for answers. “Why do men change completely after divorce?”, “Why does the AP become more important that his kids” and so on. I simply did not know what to do and where to turn. I wanted sooo much to understand what happened and why my life had slipped like sand through my fingers, despite my hard work and good care for everyone. Up till then I had lived under the premise that if you live your life well and with care for others, if you are a good person, then good things will come to you or stay with you. Did I learn a hard lesson about life sometimes being unfair:).
    But my searches brought me to my two favorite blogs that I read to this day: ChumpLady and The Happy Hausfrau……
    My X had the classic exit affair – one day he was there and then he was gone. He was unable to turn around from the newly discovered fun life and freedom and new woman and new all. He was tired of being a good person he said. And so he walked. Oh yeah, I almost forgot: he left me and not the kids
    Chumpnation and Happy Hausfrau and good friends have shown me there is hope and that there is always something funny to be found in the shittiest situations. I am 3.5 years out now. Still have lousy days, but who doesn’t…..I am living my life and to be honest, it’s a good one!

    • I remember those early days, too, after dday…..searching Google, way past the “desperate” results pages from ChumpLady’s diagram above, way into the “god help you…” pages!

      I mostly searched for: “How to save your marriage”. I looked at his cheating as a problem that I could solve, something I could work on, and improve, even if it was onyl me trying. In true form, Google returned lots of RIC BS advice, which I followed. Yay me.

      I found ChumpLady by Googling something along the lines of “What not to do when you’ve been cheated on”.

        • I looked for things like “custody with a narcissist” or “will he treat the next woman better”…I found so much peace when I could read others’ similar stories. I was scared shitless about a lot of things but brave people on this site and others calmed me down every single day, until I wasn’t anymore.

          • uh huh, yup, to all of the above. I also tried to find out if a toxic woman I didn’t know could legally parent my kids half the time. Sadly yes. Happily, they broke up. Sadly she was his girlfriend while everyone involved was married. Happily I did manage to find all you chumps and reiki maneuver my head out of my ass. My situation is far from over, but I’m in the driver seat right now. I knew things were fucked up when the MC said I wasn’t appreciating or acknowledging my husband enough since dday for all he was doing. Like tell me where he is, call, leave his phone and computer accessible, pick me up from work, make me dinner sometimes. Um, all the stuff I’d been doing for 17 years and not being thanked for? He deserves idolatry for shit he’s supposed to be doing? Apparently when my h isn’t revered or acknowledged enough, he gets an angry bruised ego and his pants fall down. Seriously.

            • I hate it when anything implies the cheater is “generous” or “kind” or “giving” or “misunderstood”…and we are bitter if we are not “grateful”

            • Some of this is life. It’s unfair, but it seems to be human nature. If someone is a total jerk, ogre, liar, cheater, whatever – they tend to get a bit of a pass for their general suckitude, “Yeah, he can be a jerk, but hey, that’s just the way he is.”

              And they tend to get undue credit when they do the smallest decent thing. “Wow, that was really nice of him, on his way home from the track he actually picked up a takeout pizza and brought it home and sat and had dinner with us. Usually he doesn’t get home till midnight when he goes to the track for the day.”

              However, if someone is a decent person who has been pretty much right on the money, all the time, for years and years? If they screw up even in a little way it tends to get noticed and probably mentioned in an unfavorable way. “How come you got the deep dish pizza when you know I like thin crust? And it’s cold, besides.”

              Jerks can develop a sort of “persona” as a jerk that enables them to get cut slack on all manner of things when they misbehave, and alternatively, receive credit for the times they are simply doing what everyone else has to do routinely.

              One might think though, that supposed professionals would be able to cut through this tendency.

            • Ugh. Why is it always a psycho they immediately bring around the kids? Mine did that too, but thankfully I lucked out with our judge and got some very relieving boundaries in place.

              • what kind of boundaries were put in place. my XH is with a married hood rat. she reeks evil out of every pore. she tells my kids lie to cover up her hatred and get them to love their dad and hate their mom. her favorite past time is to call me and tell me HE IS HERS and HE DOESNT WANT YOU. she has even used my name for a past due movie. b*tch is crazy. i am sure she is on meth, drinks all the time (one of the things he loves about her) and gave up her own kids so she can do it.

                i just dont want her around my kids but i am not sure how to legal go around it. good news is i dont HAVE to because i got sole custody and zero visitation (until he takes me to court)

              • To Mrs. Vain – just in case he ever tries to get visitation, you might want to keep notes in a journal about any drinking or meth you see. If you can talk to a lawyer, you should.

              • Agree with Diana L., document everything you can – my (extreeeeemely conservative judge) said the woman couldn’t be there overnight with our son there, he couldn’t have our son at her house overnight, and he couldn’t drink when he has our son. I told about his crazy previous gf’s, and what I knew of the current one – drinking heavily around her kids and mine, etc.
                Also I agreed to the same guidelines when I have our son (which is most of the time). It was worth it to me, I don’t like to drink or have my boyfriend stay over with my son there anyway.
                I don’t police him on those things, but if I hear of him breaking any (which is how I found out about what he’d been doing in the first place – someone contacted me because they were worried for my son), I can take him back to court and change his visitation.

    • I felt like you but one of my biggest questions was/IS: do “affair” relationships last? Because statistics say “not likely” but everywhere I look cheaters often marry the affair partner…

      • My ex dumped the OW as unceremoniously as me. I’m sure sometimes they get married, but they aren’t treating the next one any better, it will last as long as the AP deals with their shit (and they know from the start to expect cheating). Our exes didn’t change for the better to cheat on us, their real selves came out, their real, awful selves. And that’s who the AP is getting. Good riddens. As my best friend used to say, “One woman’s trash is another woman’s treasure”.

        • The AP in my situation got dumped, too, just weeks after my D-Day. All the fun of lying, gaslighting and getting over on me was over, and he was afraid I would tell MOW’s husband. Or that MOW would jump ship and expect him to marry her. I was obsessed for a while with whether that would happen. But if they had stayed together they would have richly deserved the misery of each other.

      • My ExH married his OW and had a kid. They divorced 4 years later (3 years of looking happy, her first Dday, and 1 year of a nasty court battle) He immediately married his OW in that situation too. She’s a Jesus AP and he’s now a religious man….except my niece and nephews say he acts exactly the same. Because they suck!

        So yes, the marriages Can last. But only if their current spouse remains clueless of what they’re probably already doing. Filling those holes..lol Needed:one wife/husband, one AP and one in grooming.

      • PlainChump, my ex married his affair partner very recently. I found out through the grapevine. And get this … he called me a couple of weeks ago before I knew he was married, seeking comfort since there was a tragedy in his family. I didn’t recognize the number and picked it up because I thought it was a business call. Bet you his new wife didn’t know he called me. As someone had posted here before, it would be perfect if I sent her a thank you card for commuting my life sentence.

      • He married her in April this year, 18 months after he left. I hope it lasts because I’d hate to think he fucked up our family for no good reason. But his new mother in law constantly telling them what lovely people they are…..well I just hope they both experience karma, and it hits them hard and strong when it comes!

        • My ex has already started his lies. He’s telling people he met his new wife after the divorce. Nice way to start a new marriage. More lies. And people know he’s lying. Pathetic.

      • Plainchump I wonder the same thing. My cheater ex got engaged to the OW this July, a mere 2 1/2 months after being officially in a relationship with her (7 weeks or less prior to that cheating).

        As far as I can tell, he changed His mind completely about timing, marriage and children -suddenly had OW and her son move in after no time at all, decided to get married, plays step dad to OW’s son, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they have a kid too.

        It’s weird.

    • you just said my whole story. i was too good and it got boring. but what it was is him getting tired of always having to do the right thing. for me doing the right thing came naturally, but apparently (and it never dawned on me) it was work for him to always do the right thing. living a clean life, paying your bills on time, paying your mortage so you dont lose your house, fixing up the shit that breaks in the everyday wear of living, actually raising your children, talking to them and your wife, taking time with them by just being at home, putting your family first were all new things to him. and it just got so hard to do. Whateverthefuck that means.

      and ya i got the “i left you not my kids” thing too. because there is some other way to run off with a hood rat and put her first, to move out of the house where your kids live so you dont have to deal with them everyday and of course lets not pay our child support. but i figure it was just another stupid thing cheaters say to make themself feel better. because after all, them feeling better and good and happy is ALL that matters in the world.

      • Yes, they are seriously disordered and our children do suffer. Years from now though I hope we will all be living the lives we deserve with people who love us.

  • I had a 0 tolerance for lying pre exH…on his first lie I ended it. Done. Sorry Charlie. Then I was suckered back in by a victim post of his on his myspace page…before Facebook even existed lol. The lies kept getting bigger and bigger…and damn I am good at spackeling. No more. 2 years out and now the pendulum has swung the other way where I am giving points for honesty….which I am currently working on with my shrink.
    On the bright side, when I caut my boss in a lie and had proof, I was able to lay down the law with him. Told him next time, I would go straight to HR (was an ethics violation). I pretty much get to do whatever I want now. So at least there’s that.

    • That’s an excellent point. Honesty is the DEFAULT FACTORY SETTING for decent human beings.
      You shouldn’t expect bonus points for occasionally telling the truth (when it suits your needs).
      And WE sure as hell shouldn’t be giving them out.

  • To be more relevant, my google search looked like this

    Pus + Discharge + Penis

    “Why is this all coming up for chlamydia and gonorrhea? I didn’t have sex with anyone and we’ve been in a dead bedroom for a long time. Whoa, did I get this from a toilet seat? She’ll never believe that.”

    (Then he realization sets that my ego was trying to block out. Wait. She was having sex.)

    My world started to spin around.

    We’re divorced now, and, thankfully, I didn’t get anything permanent.

  • Searching google…I still catch myself doing it trying to learn so this never happens to me again.
    My favorite site, other than chumplady of course, was this:
    http://nashlinks.com/midlife
    I found this about 5 months out and while I know now mid life crisis is crap it was still funny at that time. Heck, it still makes me laugh

  • Yes I asked the Google Orical “will she cheat again.”
    Of course I fell into an RIC infested message board. I read every day. Then I saw someone comment that the Mod’s had removed a thread that contained a Chump Lady link.
    “H’mmm” I said!
    So I asked the Orical again, “who is Chump Lady,” and here I am.

    • I was on one of those boards. Twice I had a recommendation to Chump Lady. Twice they were deleted. I still go back on occasion and feel sorry for the newbies. They just don’t know.

      • I also found ChumpLady on one of those boards – this was abou 1.5 years ago and I think she actually posted a response in some thread and I found it very insightful so I clicked on her link (or maybe I googled her) and voila…stopped reading those boards that day and have been an avid follower of CL ever since.

  • I wouldn’t be surprised if I googled “Cheating husband always crying” at some point when I was in the thick of the madness. I was desperate to find somebody who was going through the same awful shit I was, or someone who had been through it. I’m not sure if I was hoping for a magic cure (skinny hollom hooker cream, perhaps?) or permission to get the hell out of there. Just – something.

    I mean, when your husband is cheating, lying, using drugs, and running his head into the refrigerator, then disappearing for days, and you haven’t slept for days…what do you do? Now I know the answer is: Leave this situation immediately. But I’m a planner and a researcher — so I googled. :-/

    Happy to have found your blog, Chump Lady. It was just the voice of reason I was craving. And all of the voices here sharing stories that mirror my own are incredibly helpful.

    • “Happy to have found your blog, Chump Lady. It was just the voice of reason I was craving. And all of the voices here sharing stories that mirror my own are incredibly helpful.”

      Just wanted to second that LilyBart. I didn’t find ChumpLady until most of my divorce process was over, but I did find other voices of reason. Friends and family that listened to me tell what was going on in my life and gave me good advice and support. Once I was ready to hear and act on that advice, my life started getting better.

      • I found CL (I’m embarrassed to admit I googled “do serial cheaters change?”) when I was a few weeks from filing for divorce. Her blog gave me the validation that I am NOT crazy and was doing the right thing – finally leaving the cheater for good. And her banner is spot on.

    • Wow. May be the only time a Carolyn Hax column helped the victim of a cheater.

      Can’t take that woman’s advice seriously because she’s a cheater. Also because she has no sense of humor or self-deprecation, mixes her metaphors, and can’t write a simple declarative sentence to save her life. Oh, and she often gives terrible advice that encourages the keeping secrets, including infidelity, in the name of being “grown up” and keeping the peace. Uh, no thanks.

        • I’m so glad Chumpette, I like to think it was my link, heh. I am addicted to advice columns and any time Hax has a cheater letter I post Cumplady multiple times. Some of the commenters don’t like it, but the hell with them.

          • Dat, that’s a great service. I often wonder what I can do in my local community to help chumps get out of their marriages. I tell everyone who cares to listen about CL and I actually have a few friends who come here every so often to learn more about cheating, even though they’re not chumps.

  • Oh my gosh…hours and hours and hours of Googling…looking for excuses FOR him (I made it so easy, he didn’t even have to come up with them on his own!), researching the OW, looking for books…such a waste of time.

    Why didn’t I find this site sooner?? Seriously! These days when I have the impulse to Google or find myself thinking of an excuse for the POS X, I can just come here instead. 🙂

  • I searched “infidelity”, “cheating husband”, “sexless marriage”, ‘effects of infidelity”, what to do after infidelity” (or something similar), and probably “how to rebuild/get past infidelity” and I never once saw the Chumplady site listed in the search options.
    I found out about Chumplady on the Daily Strength website. Some other chump found this site and posted about it. That’s how I found this site. It had already been a few years after dealing with my h’s adultery.

  • What’s a “hollum”? On the one hand, I hate not knowing. On the other hand, I don’t want it to be part of whatever search profile Google keeps on me 🙂

    I guess I can live without knowing this. I am probably better off not knowing 🙂

  • Lol! Excellent post as usual CL. Love the candor. Type in “French victories” and click “I’m feeling lucky” and it pops up “did you mean French defeats?” So now what would it take to type in “misogynistic NPD husband” and get “did you mean ex-husband?” from the results?

    • There is actually a way to accomplish this, fiestypants, but it would take black SEO magic to get it to work.

      Several internet activist groups have the ability to create this sort of suggestion, but only by making more backlinks to the “correct” answer than the “mistaken” one.

  • Oh my dear Chump Lady. When I discovered your site a few months ago (probably googling something like “should I forgive my cheating husband?”, I read all four years of your archives. Almost every post. I skipped a few of your posts about Tori but that’s it. Anyway, having read your entire site recently, I think I can confidently say this is one of your best posts ever. I laughed so hard I may have peed my pants. Thanks for making me change clothes, Chump Lady. You’re the best.

  • I found CL by writing “how to divorce/infidelity” and “should I tell my kids about their father’s infidelity”. I did not look for “reconciliation after DDay” because I had already forgiven a one night stand (supposedly) seven years before.

  • After D-day I googled around and found sites for the reconciliation industrial complex. On one, there was a list of things the “wayward spouse” needs to do to save the marriage; full transparency/disclosure, no contact with AP, be reassuring toward the “betrayed spouse”, etc. blahblahblah. I recoiled in anger and confusion, thinking “this is not what is going on with my cheater! This is absurd to think any of this will come from him after he has just nuked our lives! He is raging at me and blaming me and the lies continue!” I figured out early on that I couldn’t read that crap as it didn’t apply to my reality.
    And then, one day, about six months out, I found Chumplady. I can’t remember if it was from a google search or if I found her on Huffpost. I felt like the clouds parted and the sun came out. Even though my therapist had been talking to me about all of the same things, Chumplady and the commenters here helped me identify aspects of what I was going through, and gave me HUGE validation for my thoughts and feelings.
    I spent many long days reading every post and every comment on the entire site. Sometimes I go back and read parts of it again.
    Thanks again, CL and everyone who comments here. You ROCK!

    • Same for me, except it took me a lot longer to realize my wife was not going to cooperate on “saving the marriage.” I can’t remember how I found Chump Lady, but I read and read and read, and then sent her a letter, the responses to which, from both her and other chumps, really validated what I’d been feeling and gave me a LOT to think about.

  • Hilarious!
    I’m wishing there were truth in the “they dissolve into mist” regarding narcissistic ex’s.
    If I shut my eyes real tight and say it 3 times….

  • Strangely enough, I found this site googling info on what it was like being the OW. Yeah, 4 years out at that point and trying to unravel the OW’s skein. I had a hard time when I found out the ExH and the OWife got divorced… I had finally accepted that their relationship must have just been that much better. So, when I heard they had divorced it threw my newly settled idea into a tailspin. Found this site and I threw all the skeins away. Not my circus, not my monkeys. Thanks Chumplady!

    • FeralBlue, I’m curious why you were unsettled that your ex divorced the first OWife? I guess I was expecting that you would feel vindicated.

  • “skinny hollom hooker cream when fucking a huge monster cock”

    Thank you for saying that out loud! I had that phrase stuck in my head ALL DAY!! 🙂

  • “And if they have children with you, they’ll probably keep trying to torture you with their bullshit as long as they can.”

    A-FREAKING-MEN to the nth degree.

  • I can’t remember the exact search term I used, but I was looking for ways to address my (soon to be) step-daughter’s terrible habit of lying (that’s a whole other story). Odd way to fall into the site, I know, but I’m so glad I did. Although DDay was two years ago, I was still struggling with closure. Being here has really helped that process and allowed me to move on emotionally. I’m in a new relationship and I’ve shared many things from this site with him (he’s a former Chump too).

  • CL, if you could somehow reconfigure your website so that it pops up when people Google things like “save my marriage after infidelity” or “prevent divorce after affair,” I think you would get a lot more hits, because this is what most chumps (including myself) are trying to do after finding about the affair. At that time, I wasn’t thinking about how my XH was a cheating, sociopathic narcissist and how I would be better off without him; I was desperately trying to do anything to have him come back to me and save my marriage and family.

    Luckily, I found you when someone posted a link to your cake-eating article on a reconciliation-leaning marriage board; otherwise, I don’t think I would have found you by Googling, because I didn’t know I needed you. I was so focused on how to save my marriage and how I could get XH out of his “fog” that I wasn’t really thinking that it would eventually be better for me (and my kids) to leave him and start a new life without him.

    Also, if your website could somehow turn up if someone searches for “I love you, but I’m not in love with you” or if you could write a post about that, I think that would be helpful. My XH told me that a couple of months before I discovered the affair, and I was Googling that phrase a lot. I had no idea it was code for “I’m having an affair” (and most articles and books that discuss ILYBINILWY don’t seem to mention the possibility of an ongoing affair). I guess I was very naive. People who have had their spouses tell them this need to know this.

  • Let’s see….my red flags are ‘lying by omission’ and my XH told some absolute woppers in that department like how many times he’d been married before me (forgot a few) and the fact he had no real friends and grew up in this city. I know men don’t seem to have friends like women do but this guy had NO friends from childhood despite the fact he went to school K-12 here. He has ‘bar buddies’ and they’ve been as interchangeable as his wives/girlfriends. The guy has never really bonded with anyone. Oh! and I tried to google that skein of fuckupedness through trying to figure the poor sausage out. He was a much loved only child (I knew his parents) so couldn’t quite figure out the FOO.

    I found Chump Lady through an article on the Huffington Post website. She wasn’t around when my life shattered so I just floundered around the internet obsessively trying to make sense of my nightmare. I was beyond humiliated and ashamed at what he did to me. I was distraught I considered suicide. What these fucker’s do to us is criminal. What REALLY bothers me is that they seem to go on and live such charmed lives. Mine has anyway. He’s the kind of guy who can step in shit and come out smelling like a rose. Nothing bad has ever happened to him. He’s one lucky sperm.

    • Me,too… HuffPo article, a year post DDay. Wish it had been at DDay, but I think the CL blog was just launching, so would have been difficult to find.

  • She was giving me that “I am not IN love with you” crap to. But I thought she was just depressed . I was so gullible.

  • The lie the sticks out to me the most when I was suspicious of my wife but didn’t yet have proof is when I sat her down and asked her. She replied like this

    “Fred, There are somethings I just don’t do! Cheating is one of them! I am a married woman! YOU are my husband! NOW I AM DONE TALKING ABOUT THIS!”

    I later discovered that at the time she said this she had been involved with another man for no less than 2 years.

    After information started trickling in and I would have to confront her more. She might answer a thing or two in a vague meaningless way, but she would always end the conversation abruptly with “I AM DONE TALKING ABOUT THIS!” That infuriated me so much.

    • Stunning their ability to flat out lie, isn’t it?

      I was in MC with my ex-wife a couple of months before D-Day 1 for what I thought was and ordinary marriage tune up after 22 years. Divorce was mentioned and I said, “People don’t get divorced over issues like we have, video games and laundry and bed times for the kids. People get divorced over things like alcohol and gambling debts and cheating.” And then-wife just nodded along in agreement. Which of course made the whole counseling experience a head-in-the-blender mindf*ck in which we mostly worked on what was supposedly wrong with me to make her so unhappy.

      As some one said so well in an earlier post, the default factory setting for most people is honesty. For serial cheaters, it’s the opposite.

      • About 6 or 7 years ago we tried MC because were weren’t getting along so well and she was withdrawing and not communicating. It was more of a gang up on me. I wasn’t understanding enough, i wasn’t out going enough, I didn’t meet her needs enough, I was too boring. I was such a bad husband because I was worried about paying the bills and making sure everyone could eat and not entertaining her enough.

        Every time the MC turned to me and said something it was always along the lines of how I need to be more patient and allow trust to build so that Mona can feel safe and secure and therefore share her feelings with me.

        He was completely clueless that she has a personality disorder that interferes with her ability to open up and be honest with anyone including herself.

        MCs are not for couples when one of them has a Personality Disorder.

        • My experience was similar, Fred, though with a woman therapist. My concerns about us paying bills on time, her obsession with online video games, her staying up all night and drinking, her refusal to do anything like her fair share of household chores, etc.? These were my unreasonable demands that left her unable to be comfortable in our house and our marriage. Lord, I was pretty convinced I was an asshole.

          I wrote her countless emails about how sorry I was and how hard I’d try to do better, and countless resolutions to my self about how I could do better, how I could be a better husband. Classic chumpiness. Oh, I can fix your unhappiness by changing me? Yep. I can do that. I’ll get to work right now!

          How humiliating then to find out that while this was going on she was actively cheating on me and had been with multiple men for at least 12 years and likely the entire 22. The MC? An elaborate and highly effective form of gaslighting in whcih the therapist played precisely the role my cheating ex wanted her to play.

          You write, “MCs are not for couples when one of them has a Personality Disorder.” And I agree. But I think therapists should be trained to spot PDs and obligated to alert their victims the way school teachers are required to alert the police when kids come to school with bruises and cracked ribs. If MC is only for couples who have no serious problems, they should say so up front.

          • She did a really good job at making me feel like the bad guy. I look back now and through out our marriage all I ever did was try to make her happy.

            She was always unhappy and I felt it was my fault and I tried to fix it. I was careful of how I talked to her. I was walking on eggshells for sure. I worried about upsetting her.

            I completely agree about how the therapists should be able to detect personality disorders I was really annoyed when I figured out that is what her problem is and a paid MC couldn’t do that. We wasted a lot of money on that MC and it got us no where.

          • Agreed. Lots of money wasted here.
            There should be a test taken by both partners before MC happens.
            But then they wouldn’t be half as well off would they?!?

            • I have a good friend who is making a career change and becoming a Family Counselor. She’ll be great at it for a variety of reasons but one thing is that she is someone I have confided everything (and I mean everything…the entire sordid tell of my STBXH’s serial-cheating, prostitute-seeing “sex addiction”) and I have told her about how traditional MC can be, at best, a waste of time if one of the spouses is cheating & doing the faux-remorse thing or at worst, abusive towards the non-cheating spouse. She’s human so I’m sure it won’t be easy to not get conned by these Narc/PD types but I’m just doing my one small part to help change an entire industry!

  • I spent a lot of time on the Daily Strength site when I first separated. I had plenty of friends to support me, but that community understood me and helped to explain a lot of the BS I was encountering. It also explained a lot about emotional, mental and physical abuse and at that time I felt like that was what I needed to understand.

    Then I started lurking around the Huff Post site and read an article by Tracy . I thought to myself that this lady “gets it, understands it and explains it as it is”. No BS from her. I’ve been here ever since. I read faithfully every day. I don’t contribute much, but this blog has been a life saver for me. Funny, witty and straightforward. No lying here! And everyone’s contributions help – hell sometimes I think some of you were married to my dickhead!

    Thank you Chump Lady and Chump Nation. I’m glad I found you!

  • Stumbled onto CL’s blog from a comment made on First Wives World, which had the link. It was a moment, to be sure! I love the honesty here, the language, and believe the message is spot on. Life is messy and challenging but no one is ever going to live “happily ever after” with a Cheater.

    • I also frequented the First Wives World site. The women there are very supportive, but it just didn’t have the same “shake the crazy talk out of your sane head” feel that Chump Lady has for me.

  • Sadly, I was googling things like ‘still love me if cheated?’ , ‘says he loves me but cheating’, ‘did he ever love me if he was cheating the whole time?’.
    Mostly I got high school level ‘love help’ results, but one day Chump Lady popped up, and like others here, I read every word. Revelatory, and helped me stay NC.

  • I don’t remember what words I put into my Google search but I do remember I was crying and upset after a sighting of OW. I was in tears and then when I read some of the posts and comments I was laughing out loud and felt such relief. Honestly, as well as some of the saddest and tragic stories I have read here I have also read some of the wittiest and most hilarious stuff. Laughter is the best medicine.

  • It took me a while to find CL.
    I was looking for the search words,
    “Cheating, Cheater, Cheating Husband, Divorce after cheating ” etc… I can’t remember how I found this blog.
    I found mostly just crap about “over coming infidelity, save your marriage, 85% of marriages survive infidelity, ”
    I also read 75-80% of marriages DID NOT survive infidelity.
    The RIC is just pumping out propaganda ! Never buy the lies !

  • I looked up, ‘change in personality’ (yanno, expecting brain tumor?). The Midlife Crisis Forum came up immediately. (I’m like wha?? This guy is 58!) Problem solved. That’s what led me to CL after about 6 months there. I’m just so glad I found out all this earlier than later. MLC were the people who told me there WAS an affair going on, much to my disbelief and denial. They were the ones who got my ducks in a row, immediately. CL helped with all the rest and is still helping 9 mos later. I didn’t find MLC to be an RIC site at all.
    I’ve been hitting the ball over the fence on this divorce ever since I filed.
    It takes a community to save a chump!

  • I found CL when I was reading a comment from someone on SI. I had been on SI for a couple of months and feeling validated that there were so many other people who had and understood my experience. The problem was that so many of them were trying to save their marriage, or were in reconciliation, etc., which was not my situation at all. I had already moved out and Cheater McAsspuppet was already cavorting about with Rev. Imaho and attempting to make my adult children believe that everything was all good because he was happy. Don’t worry about your damn near suicidal mother – she’ll be all right once she gets on board and recognizes that if she REALLY loved me she would want for me to be happy – even if it isn’t with her (yes, that shit-covered, rancid-assed weasel actually said that to me). I was so stuck on feeling bad because I didn’t understand why so many people on SI had the CHOICE to reconcile and I was being cast off like so much stinking garbage.

    But I continued on SI (as well as reading up on narcissism and narcissist victim syndrome) and in one post, one of the posters had experienced enough D-Days to finally be done and mentioned having read something on chump lady. And I said to myself, “Self, that sounds like something I need to read. Google chump lady.” I read everything on this blog – and then I read it again so that it would sink in. It was the first time during the entire ordeal that I didn’t feel like there was something wrong with ME.

    My only regret is that this site wasn’t around during the prior OW experience and I was so busy spackling and pick me tap and square dancing that I wasn’t looking for information on-line about cheaters and cheating between those two D-Days. Had I found Chump Lady when this blog first began, I MAY have recognized the lost cause in which I was involved and made plans to leave before the last D-Day.

    Chump Lady and Mighty Chump Nation saved my sanity and my life.

    • ChumpPrincess – this was priceless! “she’ll be all right once she gets on board and recognizes that if she REALLY loved me she would want for me to be happy – even if it isn’t with her (yes, that shit-covered, rancid-assed weasel actually said that to me) <—-that requires a new cartoon!

  • I was unfortunately only able to find Chump Lady on Huffpo 3 years after dday and I did all the RIC shit. Now I listen to Tracy and all the wonderful posters. I am still married and living with him, but at the rate he is going I will be divorcing him. My mother died 2 months ago and no one, and I mean no one from HIS job sent his family(us) a sympathy card. When I asked why I got “Well I think I might have mucked that up” and then “I don’t know why” and then, all in the same conversation, “Well the lady who usually does that, her mother died at the same time.” I know that happened, so I told him well I hope that they got her a card, since they didn’t get us one. The reason this whole thing pissed me off is that 3 weeks ago our 18 year old had his wisdom teeth cut out and guess what?? The ladies at work got him a get well soon card, which by the way I never got to lay eyes on to see who signed it. So I told my husband that since neither of my sons loss of their grandmother or the loss of my mother was ever acknowledged by the women and men who work with him, they are all dead to me. I told him if they were on fire I wouldn’t even piss on them, I would throw gasoline on them. He said he would discretely check on the lack of a card, but …….crickets.

    • Unicorn – I seem to relate to that message. Work has often been personal when it comes to their employees about this stuff. Especially a good company.
      I guess he’s extracted you with a fillet knife from the work environment as he continues on with the ho-worker. If that’s what’s there.
      Not sure why the attention on kids’ wisdom teeth and not your tragic Mom’s death?

      Do you think he even mentioned your Mother’s death? And, I am so sorry, btw. Nothing worse than losing a mother other than…
      Maybe he doesn’t even discuss with his co-workers anymore. I know that happened in my case. Used to get flowers when a dog died…

      and, Unicorn – good luck with War of the Unicorns. From my experience, it’s gut-wrenching, but wishing you best of luck trying to LIVE together.

      • Thanks, so you see even total strangers can acknowledge our loss but not his co-workers. No he switched jobs and the ho worker moved out of state after I outed her on Chaterville. This is a new job and I know that they all are aware as I had to stay at my mothers house for 2 weeks to take care of her the last days of her life. She had cancer for a year and on hospice for the last 3 weeks of her life. I know that he didn’t want me to be acknowledged by his staff for a reason, since they are mostly women, but I can’t prove it. He certainly discussed wisdom teeth removal, so lame excuse on his part. Oh they also certainly acknowledged his birthday by decorating his office and buying him a cake, but that kind of attention is OK because it’s solely for him! He would have had to share the kibbles. Lol. One of my friends said that sounds like someone has been trash talking the wife at work. I also think that is part of it as well. My mother’s insurance company, and primary care Doctor’s office took the time to send us a sympathy card, my work, sent a sympathy card, his office, and he one of two bosses. Who doesn’t acknowledge the boss’s loss of his MIL either? Yes something is fishy in denmark. I also told him that they are dead to me and there will be no more cards coming into this home from them from here on out. He had better watch out because I’m rapidly approaching the not giving a shit level about staying married.

    • I googled sex addict , found the married to a sex addict site and joined the sisterhood of support. Someone there mentioned Chump Lady’s opinion about swinging a cat in a bar and hitting someone better than your cheater. It took me a while but once I got here I read through everything. This and the Sisterhood of support kept me sane.

  • I’m pretty sure my googling phrase was: “Reasons to not stay with a cheater” or “Reasons to not take a cheater back” or something to that effect – as I’d just kicked him out for the final time 3 months post Dday, and was looking for validation that I’d done the right thing! (we had a then 1yr old bub at the time).

    I think this site was right near the top. Needless to say I spent the next 4 hours devouring the articles and beyond for the last 14 months (Dday was over a year and a half ago).

    It felt like “I had been blind but now I can see”. I’d come home 🙂

  • I don’t remember how I found the site. I was on SI, and posted something, and it felt everyone ganged up on my saying to take a stronger stand. Hell, I was doing the absolute best I could, and needed some time to gather my strength. If I remember correctly, the most important thing at the time was to get out from under the same roof as my “rodent of an unusual size” (yeah, started thinking about him as a rodent after the forest creature post). At the time it was imperative that I “play his game” and get out with some basics. I’ve made some costly mistakes along the way, but I don’t miss the SI people. I’ve found more help here than anywhere else.

  • I found Chump Lady through the website Out Of The Fog, a great place to learn about PD’s and a pretty good forum. Someone mentioned Chump Lady as having said something particularly good about a cheating SOB and included a link. Well I followed and here I am. I also love the no-nonsense-tell-it-like-it-is-take-no-prisoners style here. I pretty much operate that way myself although I have been known to try to be a (ahem…) little tactful sometimes…(occasionally.)…….. Although, in my book truth trumps tact every time. Best of all I love the raw courage that is encountered and encouraged here. This is no place for wimps….. Chump Nation Rules!

    • “I also love the no-nonsense-tell-it-like-it-is-take-no-prisoners style here. I pretty much operate that way myself although I have been known to try to be a (ahem…) little tactful sometimes…(occasionally.)…….. Although, in my book truth trumps tact every time.”

      I’m the same way. I’m a boat rocker 😉

  • I can’t remember how I found this site. I know in the past when I’ve simply typed “infidelity”, I’ve gotten sites telling me cheating is not an automatic deal breaker, cheaters are in as much pain as you, you need to own your part in making him cheat, blah blah blah. I may have typed “how to leave a cheater” and found this site. Whatever I did, I’m glad I found this breath of fresh air.

    Oh, and I need to remember not to eat when reading these articles. I almost spit my food out laughing at “skinny hollom hooker cream when fucking a huge monster cock”.

  • I found this site when it was only a few months old by googling “verbal abuse”. It was probably down on page 32 of the results. Yes I was desperate and not finding much help. The best site I found before CL was http://nomoreverbalabuse.blogspot.com/. She gives some of the best descriptions of gaslighting I have ever read. AT CL I was able to comprehend all the various forms of abuse inflicting my life, of which infidelity was probably the most painful.

  • Haha. I’m really surprised I didn’t end up hating the entire male gender. I’d always go through a short period of man hating after a breakup (don’t worry guys I didn’t really hate men, just a few stupid ones) but after I left my sex addict ex I never had that phase at all. I think it’s because his brand of nasty has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with species (shark?). Plus I was gestating a human male and he was as much a victim as I was.

    • Glad you don’t hate men. It never occurred to me to hate women — I have had too many fine women in my life for that, including my cheater’s mother.

  • QuickSilver – desperate for information – exactly. Type in everything – gay sex, group sex…you come up with so much you had no idea about. I had no idea there was a Assley-Mad site! My eyes have been opened.
    I just wonder sometime if the lying and deception over 2 yrs wasn’t actually more painful than the infidelity.
    Not that it matters – it was all an instant deal-breaker.

  • As it so happens, my stbx specializes in SEO. White Hat, mind you, unless you live with him and see all of the phony, lying, underhanded methods he employs. He has a fierce hatred for Matt Cutts, who has taken these “specialists” to task and wipes out entire websites – rendering them impossible to find save typing in the exact URL.

    Google as a life oracle. I’ve never thought of that. Do I type in “We have no hot water. stbx fled the state, spending all available funds impressing others and posting pics on the internet? Can I still trust him?”

    One of my favorites was “Poor sausage. Kleenex, visine, then — no contact.” For some reason it reminded me of Seinfeld’s soup nazi, “NO SOUP FOR YOU!” “NO, NO, NO…NO CONTACT FOR YOU! NEXT!”

  • I spent a lot of time googling “midlife crisis” and “I love you but I’m not in love with you.” I’m so glad I found Chumplady, her site was the one that finally made sense out of a senseless situation. Eventually I asked Tracy what she thought about “I love you but I’m not in love with you” and her answer made more sense than my counselor’s. I’m so glad she included a lot of info about that statement in her book, because it’s one if the most confounding sentences in the human language. I wish I could remember how I stumbled upon this site, but I think I stumbled upon it through a link someone posted on another blog.

  • Will be divorced this month ( Thank God ) and had started a nice friendship/ dating situation with an old friend from my childhood.
    He was chumped too.
    Because if this I automatically assumed that he would be A Good Guy! That I could trust him not to be an asshole.

    Last night after spending the entire day looking after a parent with Alzhimer’s I waited to hear from him because we agreed to see each other.
    At almost 10 pm I sent him a text telling him that I was disappointed and that I felt stood up.
    A simple text or phone call to say that things had changed or that his head was so far up his ass he would have to go to emerge to get it out would have been nice; in fact, would have been common courtesy.

    Nope. I got ( you are not the boss if me ) a very angry text about how I need to be independent and blah blah blah….
    We are DONE!!!

    So I would like to add BLAMESHIFTING to this list.

    Cause when you hurt or confuse me I need to be projected all over…NOT

    • As a side note, I found CL on Midlife Crisis Forum. Great support group.
      This made more sense for me 🙂

      • Lisa – that’s a great reminder that we need to look for consistent, reliable actions in someone and not just assume they are trustworthy b/c they have been chumped or had a good upbringing or have a good job or we met them through a friend, etc. And when they reveal who they are…believe them. Sorry that happened but it sounds like it might be a good thing b/c you weren’t that invested. Just another opportunity to learn from the experience, hone your picker and move on from here.

        I’m hoping my divorce will be finalized in the next month too – can’t wait!

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