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This Monogamist’s Take on Orgies

mrNiceGuyAn alert chump sent me a recent article in Vogue, “That Time I Went to a Sex Party” by “Slutever” Karley Sciortino. 

The article appeared in Vogue, so realize right now that whomever they’re writing about is younger, slimmer, and better dressed than you. It stands to reason the sex is more fabulous as well.

“It’s the best sex party in New York, with the most fun, attractive crowd,” Sciortino’s friend reassures her. Invitation only!

Skeptical if she can get her freak on “amidst a crowd of ‘roughly 100 people'”, she’s goes forward relying on her friend Anne’s fabulous quotient.

“I trusted Anne, because she knows a lot about this stuff. See, Anne and her husband are in an open marriage: They’re happy, successful, attractive, deeply in love, and they also get to sleep with whomever they want. How unfair.”

All the Happy, Successful, Attractive, Deeply in Love people are doing it!

So right there I know I could never be on the invite list. I’ve already made a name for myself as a dorktacular, squidgy, middle-aged woman who enjoys monogamy (and other retro pleasures like LP records, dial-up, and butter churning). Can you imagine what the vetting process for the guest list must look like?

“Janet? No, Janet’s out. Unsightly scar. Bob? Oh no. I wouldn’t fancy him on toast. How about Alastair? A Libertarian, but you can get past that considering his six-pack abs.”

You’d have to find 100 perfect specimens who feel comfortable having sex in herds. Who are these people? Personally, it sounds like the stuff of nightmares. You know that one — where you have a presentation to give and you’re in a large room of people and suddenly realize you’re naked? Doesn’t everyone have that nightmare? Along with the math exam you forgot to study for?

I can’t imagine at any point in my life being comfortable naked in a room full of a hundred people. Not even when I was a perfect specimen at 18, weighed 138 pounds (I’m 5’10”), my breasts were perky, and you could bounce quarters off my flat stomach. UNH-UH would I do it. At my most body beautiful, I was utterly convinced of my hideousness. (At 47, I rock the squidgy.)

Okay, and that’s just getting naked. Having sex in front of other people? Who isn’t racked with self doubt? I mean most people don’t even do cocktail parties without social anxiety. Sex? Does everyone get high first? Are they checking out their neighbors and worrying that they seems to be having more fun? Or have better techniques? Or larger dicks? Or bigger boobs?

Sciortino describes the crowd as nice, ordinary, pleasant people, albeit intimidatingly attractive.

Walking into the hotel, I was slightly intimidated by how many beautiful, well-dressed people there were. (Anne was right.) For the first two hours, people mostly danced, drank the free booze, and ate canapes. Many of the guests were clearly already friends or “playmates,” and the atmosphere was surprisingly classy, even reserved. It wasn’t until midnight that the suits and cocktail dresses began to come off. Suddenly the many beds, couches, and bathtubs were filled with people going at it.

I just don’t understand the logistics of a hundred splendid New Yorkers having group sex. Isn’t anyone fumbling for their diaphragm? Is no one having awkward condom conversations with total strangers? Don’t they worry about STDs? Do they pass out hand sanitizer? Want a shower? Am I weird for thinking of these things?

To me an orgy just seems like a giant “pick me” dance. Can you imagine how ghastly it would be to go to an orgy and not be picked? Clearly, they must try to ameliorate this concern by closely vetting the guest list for only the most perfectly attractive, successful, deeply in love sorts of swingers — but what if you had cabbage for lunch and were feeling rather bloated that day? What if among the perfect specimens you were in the lower tier of perfection? Can you be an orgy wallflower?

Personally, I like my intimacies intimate, but I don’t want to judge. If this really works for people and they’re as open and respectful as Sciortino says, well, God bless them. I’m glad it works for them and I hope they don’t catch anything.

I was willing to leave it there. Slutever, I concede your fabulousness! But then, as is often the case with these sensational polyamory articles, she had to go and slam monogamy.

Many of my past relationships have been tainted by insecurity, jealousy, cheating, and lying, often fueled by bad communication and secrecy.

By comparison, the couples at the party seemed open and honest in a way that many “normal” couples aren’t. Let’s not kid ourselves: adultery is rife. In a way, the socially accepted norm of monogamy requires lying. It’s almost like monogamous couples actually prefer to be lied to rather than deal with the uncomfortable reality of extramarital attraction. With nonmonogamy, you’re admittedly entering into risky territory. But with ground rules and communication, the result could be a more honest, fulfilling relationship. And since keeping jealousy in check and feeling secure can be the hardest parts of maintaining a relationship for me, I began to wonder if nonmonogamy could teach me something on a deeper level that monogamy couldn’t—if perhaps these orgy people were really onto something.

Monogamy requires lying? No CHEATING requires lying. Polyamorists don’t have the market cornered on “honesty.” Monogamists do honesty as well. As a self-professed cheater, apparently YOU don’t do honesty well. That’s on you, not monogamy.

I know this is really hard for your bleached blonde, power-suited, edgy sex columnist self to realize, but some people can actually DO monogamy. No really! And even more mind-blowing — they have honest, fulfilling relationships without boffing strangers at sex parties. They even have mind-blowing sex too, but I’m not going to tell you the particulars, because hey, I like to keep these things private and not share them with 100 people in a Hilton suite.

It’s almost like monogamous couples actually prefer to be lied to rather than deal with the uncomfortable reality of extramarital attraction.

Bullshit. Extramarital attraction is not cheating. Don’t muddy the waters. Stepping out on someone is cheating — crossing that boundary. I got cheated on — and I did not “prefer” to be lied to. I preferred to not be cheated on by my ex-husband and have him make unilateral decisions about my marriage, health, and finances. I’m not deluding myself about my ability to do monogamy. You’re honest about your polyamorous lifestyle? Everyone is on the same page? Great. Now do me the favor of respecting MY lifestyle — monogamy.

It’s this really exclusive party I’m having. Only the very best quirky, intelligent, middle-aged person is coming. (He has all his hair AND a useless master’s degree in comparative literature!) Invitation only! To my husband. The rest of you aren’t invited.

Monogamy works for me, Slutever.

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    • Agreed, Fred. It sounds like a bad Penthouse letter (wait, is that redundant?). Anyway, it sounds utterly fantastical and fictionalized and it is sad that some people will actually be stupid enough to be titillated, or worse, encouraged by it.

      Monogomy is easy for me. Really easy. I just need to find someone else who feels it’s as easy as I do.

      • I think it also shows the complete shallowness of some individuals. Who are they to deem who is and isn’t attractive? I hate people like that..who think they are head and shoulders above the rest of us lowly, unattractive peons. Yeah, I agree..attraction is a big thing. But put in front of me a guy who looks like Brad Pitt (if he’s the one that floats your boat) but acts like an egotistical, “I’m the greatest thing since sliced bread” asshole..he can kiss my ass and move on. There are better people in this world. Oh and as for Slutever? I think she should change her name to Slutforever.

      • Moving. I love that. I too, believe mnogomy was easy for me. Just not my ex. He apparently knew screwing his secetary was easy

      • Right Moving Liquid…monogamy is easy, what I find really hard to do is cheating. I wouldn´t know how to or have the energy to make the faces, do the planning, lie to my spouse and children, find the time, clean the clues, use the money, buy the gifts, find the place, etc….It is a lot of work. I said to my STBX that if he had spent as much time, creative effort and money on our marriage as he did with his OWs we would be the happiest couple on the planet! What an idiot!

        • I would have been content with half as much effort. All our friends can’t believe he had it in him…..

  • Ugh. That whole thing reminds me of those ‘really true stories’ from Penthouse. Totally true and not made up bullshit at all. Uh-huh.
    “Cabbage for lunch”……lol……..
    Once again you make me laugh, Tracy!

  • Well, she had something until she got to the bashing monogamy part…

    Having people respect your lifestyle also involves respecting others. That seems to be the deal that she missed there.

    No, monogamous couples don’t “prefer” being lied to. We prefer honesty just as much as a polyamorous setup. No one goes into any relationship WANTING to be lied to.

    Having attraction to people that aren’t your spouse is common. I think Tom Hiddleston is as hot as an active volcano and I like to pause the semi-nude scenes in Only Lovers Left Alive (hey…about a couple that’s been monogamous since the 1800’s!). I go to see movies with Charlie Day in them, JUST so I can watch Charlie Day do stuff for an hour and a half. My husband is positively giddy over Rosario Dawson’s character in Sin City.

    We both realized a LOOOONG time ago that it’s pretty normal to have attractions to others. Celebrity crushes abound. His friend Lo is gorgeous and I wish I had her eyes. My friend Duncan is the living incarnation of Flynn Rider from Tangled. We both know it, we’ve both talked about it. We’re FINE.

    The difference is I’m not FUCKING Duncan. He’s not sneaking off to fancy hotels for sex parties with Lo. Both of us are perfectly capable of conducting ourselves in completely appropriate ways around these people. Even if I walked out of my apartment this minute and bumped into Tom Hiddleston and Charlie Day and they asked me for a threesome, I would faithful to my husband because that is the agreement we made when we got together. Our marriage is operating on the understanding that we won’t fuck other people and it’s not difficult to keep that promise because we care about more than just physical attractiveness. Because there are more important things in the world than how attractive someone is. Our vetting process goes something like this: Hm, am I married to that person? No? Then they’re not invited for sex.

    CL is right. Monogamy isn’t the thing that has a problem with honesty and communication. “Slutever” is the one with the problem. If she can’t seem to handle not being a liar and breaking trust with her partners, then she need not be involved in any relationship let alone one that involves mass sex with multiple people who’s health histories and relationship statuses you don’t even know.

    • I will say this again (and not so eloquently as you, Kara) but being shallow and having poor boundaries is not edgy or new. Be as indiscriminate in your screwing around as you like, with as many people, either singularly or collectively, as you want. I really don’t care – in the words of my grandmother, “What you eat doesn’t make me fat.” Just don’t mislead or involve or cast aspersions on those of us who prefer the intimacy of a deeper connection and one-on-one contact with ONE significant other.

    • Beautiful, Kara. Like I used to say, when you are married it’s fine to look at the menu, you just can’t place an order. How ridiculous of “slutever” to imply that having an ATTRACTION to another person is the same as FUCKING another person, or qualifies as lying in some way. I guess she doesn’t know the difference between imagination and reality.

  • If they call white, black and black, white, it does not make it so. It just means they are blind. Eventually, reality has a way of waking up people. Too bad their foolishness paves a wide path of destruction until that point.

    • Well said, DM, well said. Unfortunately, some people believe that consequences don’t apply to me … until they can’t figure out why they are feeling worthless, angry, empty, etc.

  • It annoys the crap outta me that these ” polygamsits” go on about how “honest” they are. Of course meaning us, un-enlightened normal monogamous folk are not.
    My X used to profess his monogamy. Now he professes his polygamy.

    He’s a liar.

    No matter what way his gate is swinging or with however many, he is a LIAR.

    They are everywhere. just because you claim to be polygamous does NOT mean you are more honest than the rest of us.

    So sick of this myth being touted as a fact. Pure bullshit.

    • Yurp. A liar is a liar whether you’re married, poly or humping a heard of sheep. It doesn’t matter what sort of relationship setup there is. A liar is a liar in every situation.

      • I should also have added that a liar has the ability to fuck up any given situation.

        • Yes, I think Slutever really misses this point. She’s bought into the idea that if you let someone have sex with people outside their marriage, they won’t lie because they won’t need to – but that assumes that they’ll follow whatever rules you do agree to like using condoms or not having sex with people you know or making their spouse the primary partner or not falling in love.

          I think the reality is that if someone is going to lie and break promises when they want something, they will still do it. They’ll just be lying or breaking promises about something different.

          And even if they are honest, they may start to want more and bargain for more.

          Jenny Block wrote a book about being in an “open” marriage. She cheated on her husband a number of times before eventually he agreed to the arrangement. At one time, she told him not to sleep with a particular person, but he went ahead anyway because he thought her reason was stupid. Later, she got involved with someone who lived near them, something they had agreed not to do – and promptly fell in love with her, again breaking all the promises. Because “the heart wants what it wants.”

          • Can’t bargain with a liar and a cheat.

            Personally I really don’t understand why anyone would agree to a setup that involves even more rules and agreements with someone who has already violated the rule of monogamy. The way I always say it is that’s like catching someone stealing from the cash register and then making them a manager.

    • Thank you. Mine was the same way–his eyes would light up when talking about “the lifestyle” and honest everyone was. Well, those open and honest people were fucking him, (he sought out swingers and polys) and they all knew he was cheating.

      And I went to a similar party in NYC when I was still with cheater–we were screened via photos and made the list. It was so contrived and forced that it completely turned me off. Sooo much play acting and I saw numerous 3-ways go awry, with the boyfriend gravitating to the “unicorn” girl who just showed up alone, and girlfriend skulking off alone with a sad face. It was not all eyes wide shut or 70s love in.

  • Shortly after dday, I asked my now ex, if he wanted an open marriage, not that I wanted it, I surely did not, but hey, it is fair to ask, right? I need to save the marriage, right?
    Well, that was the quickest NO, I have ever heard.
    It really pissed me off that it would be okay for lying cheating cop, but not for good little cops wife.
    Now, it just cracks me up!!!
    What a douchebag………

    • Because if he had an open situation, then he wouldn’t get the fun of playing you for a fool. Take away his cake? Nope! Can’t have THAT now could he?

    • Casey, I did this exact same thing and got the same answer. That was at the 35 year mark because I could sense something was afoot. Two years later I was out the door. He planned everything and to this day he swears on a stack of bibles that there was no one else!! My eye.

  • Hey there! I was unilaterally blessed to have screwed most of Los Angeles county! Ya see people, MOW and her spouse are/were heavy swingers. I’m sure they ALL thought about STDs and condoms. Of course!

    So when my asshat told me “don’t worry (about STDs); she’s ‘clean’. “. It was so crazy of me to go ballistic. Especially noting the timeline between him fucking her and fucking me was when I was nursing our infant twins.

    Yuck. Plus they aren’t just doing standard penile-vaginal or standard oral stuff. This include also a lot of rectums and fecal matter. Don’t be fooled by just penis in rectum….MOW and asshat also like oral to ass. Barf.

    • Can’t spell. This thread is anther of my huge triggers. Especially the very Christian MOW whose orifices were making asshat a better father.

    • I’m reminded of the scene in Clerks II where they have the argument about ass to mouth. “You NEVER go ass to mouth!!”

      In all seriousness, that is pretty gross. There are things that are not necessarily STD’s that can be spread by doing that. Bacterial infections, pink eye, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if those people had used enemas, thinking that makes it “clean.” Nope.

      I work in an adult toy shop, so I’m pretty open minded when it comes to different sex acts (excluding any and ALL sex surrounding infidelity…) but there are some things that make even me sick. That is one of them.

      • And isn’t it interesting that one of the slang terms for that is “tossing salad.” Maybe that’s where all of that word salad comes from. 😉

      • I can’t tell you how repulsed I am by him. I don’t think he considers anal as sex. Without a condom. Jeez. I’m not sure of how many other rectums he has explored.

        I never have had issues with peoples past sex lives when I began intimate relationships with them. I guess the repulsion is part of the heinous deceit and deception thrown on top of all the xhamster porn links sent by the MOW to asshat, which they then reenacted.

        • Oh anal is definitely sex. I don’t really see how someone can consider anal to NOT be sex. It’s like those teenagers that take purity vows, but do everything else but p-in-v sex because they think it “doesn’t count.”

          There’s also definitely a difference between adults who do stuff that doesn’t really float your boat and cheating.
          It’s not that big of a deal if someone likes, say, using anal toys. But if that person is your spouse who is using these anal toys on someone who is NOT you without your permission, that’s a whole other ball of wax. It’s the deceit that makes it repulsive. Throwing in lies and deceptions, secret keeping and cheating makes it go from “Okay, I’m not really into that but to each their own” to “You did WHAT? With WHO?! FOR HOW LONG?!?!?!”

  • Okay. I am going to try to be decent here. Having sex can get, well, messy. It can get juicy and loud. If there are 100 people in there there must be 50 couples having some sort of sexual connection. That’s a lot of mess and a lot of juice. If I was the maid I would demand hundreds of dollars and a hazmat suit to clean that room up.

  • …no… have no problem with monogamy.. I prefer it… Playing musical beds is OUT…

  • The subject of orgies, group sex, kinky stuff…so complicated. I had a neighbour, a single guy, about five years ago, with whom I chatted at the pub regularly. He was quite candid about his enjoyment of attending such events. There was a country hideaway where local swingers would go and do their thing. His kink was to simply watch other people having sex. He was tall, and handsome, so he would get off on dressing as a Roman centurion, standing on the corner, and refusing to have sex with the women who asked him.

    He went on to take bit parts in porn movies apparently made by a perv in the village. He said he enjoyed variety in his women; I saw him as only a notch above a rutting animal. No care whatever for normal, responsible participation in civil society. But harmless to those who didn’t partake. Except perhaps to make us cringe. I think his sexual identity was chaotic…he once came by to show off his new, skin-tight fake-rubber onesy. He had it on inside out, and was stoned, so I didn’t have the heart to tell him the tag was showing:)

    What I learned about other people’s perversions is worth a book, just from knowing that guy. I completely recoil at the thought of participating. If I said that to him, he would smile, and say, “I know you’d enjoy yourself if you just tried it”.

    I asked how, if the normal man can only ejaculate once every so often, then what’s the big deal? I mean, once you’ve had your jollies, what’s left? Get more drunk?

    Porn on the net definitely fuels this lunacy. But I think most people who try it once go home with a bad taste in their mouth and a worse hangover. And likely the clap.

    • Porn. Yup – for those people who need a whole lot of fantasy to cope with the the day to day realities of this world.

      My Father’s Father ( paternal Grandfather ) came from a Quaker background. In fact, the church where my Great Great Great Grandmother was a Minister is still being used for their services ( they call it a meeting house ).

      Anyhow, maybe because of this – I get really really angry and upset when other wingnuts try to shove their version of the new reality ( read fantasy world. ) down our throats.

      You want to get your freak on – ok. But it should not have to dictate the rules of how our society works.

      I don’t hear one person on this site who got enlightened because their spouse watched a million hours if porn, couldn’t cope with every day things such as screwing in a lighbulb in the bathroom, but was secretly screwing a whore in a “furry suit” on weekends while you raise the kids alone.

      Grow up people. Our society has produced the biggest bunch of narcasistic babies ever seen.

      I think this woman needs to get bent!

      I will go eat some chocolate now 🙂

      • Internet porn definitely fucks up one’s view of “normal” sex. I work in a very male-dominated profession and have had candid discussions with my much younger male co-workers. (Discussions which I never initiate, but I also do not back away from). One of them actually told me a woman can climax giving a man a BJ! I just laughed and assured him that was not physically possible. And fake tits the size of basketballs cannot enhance a woman’s pleasure. As for the “anal obsession” on the net, guess all those guys and gals love skidmarks in their drawers ’cause that’s what’s a’comin’…Gross and disgusting. Makes me happy to be alone!

    • You had me at… dressed like a Roman centurion! You can’t make this stuff up.

  • The article is masked as “see how evolved and beautiful, happy and succesful us orgy sex party swingers are and you poor monogamous saps who practically beg to be lied to and deceived.

    A friend of mine is a swinger. He invited me to one these sex parties. I was turned off but had a laugh. The free flowing booze and low lighting before the clothes come off makes everyone appear good looking. I refused to sit on anthing and dip in single toe into a hot tub swimming with groin juices.

    That night turned me into a mongomist.

    • There isn’t light low enough to make some people appealing… orgies aside.

      • It’s comical that sharing body fluids with 100 drunk low low lit orgy is the height of intellectual sexual sophistication. It’s like a bunch of strangers all taking a shit and revelling on the size of their turds.

        My asshole older brother was ridiculously proud of his bowel movements. It was like He was the Olympic champion of bowel movements. He was so proud of the enormous shits he took and would drag anyone in the house to see his bowel accomplishments before flushing.

        Reading this article is akin to my brother’s high achievement in clogging the toilet.

        • “He was so proud of the enormous shits he took and would drag anyone in the house to see his bowel accomplishments before flushing.”

          My ex used to do that sometimes. Call me into the bathroom so proud because he took a huge turd. Talk about immature.

          • Briefly dated a guy who thought I needed to know about his BM actions at all times.
            The deal breaker ( amongst other things ) was during a nice dinner one night he told me about the mucus in his underwear that day.
            Guess he fart gambled and lost!

    • Or the STD infested waters, and objects. Imagine someone saying…you are so good…uhhh whats your name again…maria…samantha….kiley ugh….this is frustrating…nevermind…and I am DONE! 30 seconds! finished! wooo hooo

      • I have a pretty close swinger friend too. He went to sex clubs and parties all the time. One thing I really like about him though, is he never shoves it in anyone’s faces that don’t want to be part of it. He’ll happily discuss it with anyone who asks him about it, but unless someone actually asks, he keeps it to himself. He also refuses to have sex with anyone who is in a relationship. He won’t go near that. He says couples would come to the parties and clubs sometimes, but he avoided them.

        He was at my wedding and he was really happy for me. I saw him at the reception and he said that it’s really nice to see a couple who love each other like we do get married. He of course saw us off with everyone else when we drove off to go on our honeymoon. He’s actually been getting really good at photography and building a business with that.

        He’s a great example of someone who can have his life and still respect others. He’s one of those people who hates being judged himself, so he doesn’t judge others. There are some swingers who could take a lesson or two from him.

        • And that’s great. I believe people like your friend exist and this is their kink and so what? Live and let live. It’s when people like Slutever or Dan Savage or polyamorist-of-the-month go off about how “unnatural” monogamy is that I want to slap them. Really? Unenlightened idiots think homosexuality is unnatural. Just because monogamy is the dominant culture or WTFever doesn’t make it evil or impossible or a “lie”. Have some respect.

          • Swingers, aka cheater apologists are free to have monkey sex..big deal, no one sis stooping their choice of lifestyle. BUT to to rub in the face of those who don’t swing is passive aggressive.

  • Feeling vaguely nauseated at the idea of 100 people behaving like a bunch of wild animals in heat. Call me old fashioned (I don’t mind a bit!) but I still believe that there is nothing more beautiful or precious than being intimate with the ONE person you love most in this world. I miss that part of my life : (

  • I just can’t take her seriously. Yet another writer pretending to do Carrie Bradshaw postulating on subjects with her own anecdotes as the foundation. I have enough of my own issues and don’t have a lot of patience anymore with this sort of faux-pertise.

    I’m cool if you want to sleep around. I’m fine with getting your rocks off at an orgy if that’s your fancy. But for chrissakes, let’s stop putting down monogamy as though it some lesser evolved practice in which insecure people partake.

    Even the author was nonplussed by the whole thing. Aside from the nuggets she believed she gleaned from the communication (no gold star), she fell asleep.

  • One of the (many) things I have to come to admire about CL is her unyielding battle against the tired narratives of “monogamy is unnatural”; “affairs are stylish, hip, edgy”; “cheating doesn’t really hurt anyone who is sophisticated and enlightened”; “non-cheating partners are complicit and brought it on themselves”; etc., etc. ad nauseum. Anyone who believes in non au courant concepts like wedding vows meaning something is, for sure, borrrring.

    I’m not sophisticated enough to untangle it all, but it is interesting how most of these self styled trendsetters can’t just report what they do with an attitude of “This is what works for me and how I/we make it work”. Truly, I’m not really any more interested in what they do than they are in my latest misadventure with my hokey backyard grill at my suburban home. But that’s OK. I guess some folks find this stuff about orgies interesting.

    But many of them can’t seem to let it go at that. What they are doing has to be presented as BETTER than the alternative. They have to take potshots at all of the poor unwashed hicks out there who aren’t in tune with their latest fashions. It almost seems like, maybe, they just might not be quite as comfortable with their own hip selves as they would have us believe?

    • “Anyone who believes in non au courant concepts like wedding vows meaning something is, for sure, borrrring.”

      These are the same kinds of people who are like “Marriage is just a piece of paper!”

      I hate it when people say that. No, marriage is not just a “piece of paper.” The paper is the documentation of the legal aspect of two people joining their assets and power of attorney. It’s the thing that allows people to avail of tax breaks and filing jointly.

      A marriage is the actual commitment. The two people joining together and promising to be partners for life. The vow two people make to honor and cherish each other. Marriage goes SO far beyond a ceremony and a paper signing.

      When I hear someone say that marriage is just a piece of paper, I think to myself, “If that’s what you think, then you aren’t ready to be married anyway.”

      • Kara, couldn’t agree more. I guess it sounds self serving seeing my current situation, but 30+ years ago I stood up and looked my (then happy) bride to be in the eyes in front of her and my parents, her sister, extended families,closest friends, and promised to be faithful and not leave her till death.

        I understand, that’s pretty heavy stuff there. And things do happen, life and circumstances intervene and none of us are perfect. I know a guy who was in his 70s and his wife was in a coma and hadn’t spoken to him or communicated for years. He met someone compatible whose husband had passed away. Life throws curves.

        But somehow, somewhere along the way, the concept of marriage and fidelity has gotten warped way out of true. To the point where if you are someone who actually believes in the things you said at your marriage, you’re almost considered some kind of wierdo, or loser freak.

        • The thing that bugs me about articles like “Slutever’s” here, is they only seem to be able to think in extremes. To them, monogamy is the same two people doing the same stuff, the same kind of sex and never even being attracted to anyone else for eternity. Which is extreme given how differently everyone lives their lives.

          To them, polyamory is sex parties with 100 people or orgies with only the people deemed most “attractive” and taking on the attitude that monogamy is outdated.

          People like “Slutever” have honesty problems, commitment problems and self-reflection problems because they can never take a few seconds to think about the common denominator in all their blown up relationships and think “Huh…maybe it’s me?” They just think “Nah, it must me MONOGAMY that’s the problem! I can’t tell the truth to save my life, I don’t respect boundaries I willingly agree to and I want sex with lots of people at once. Must be monogamy…”

          They can’t see anything in-between their preconceived extremes. For them, it’s either vanilla monogamy forever or sex partners in the triple digits all in one night. They can’t find a middle ground.

          I know people who have not only found a middle ground, they made that middle ground their live-in best friend. It doesn’t all have to be extremely one or extremely the other. But of course, Slutever would actually have to think about that, and she can’t be bothered to spare the brain power…

          • Basically, to clarify, what I was saying is it is possible to be monogamous and still be sexually exciting. It’s possible to be polyamourous without attending 100-person orgy parties.

  • Thinking about this, I guess a bottom line for me is, if someone has been cheated on and wants to opine on how it feels and how one might properly react, I’m all ears. If you haven’t been there, not quite so much. I guess it depends on other life experiences they have had and their character.

    A number of years ago STB(hopefully)XW suffered through a pretty bad depression that lasted several months. She said it is something you have to live through to really understand, and I totally believe and respect that. Cannot imagine. However, I will contend to my last breath that being cheated on is the same type of “you gotta have been there” experience.

    • Chumpguy, you are so right…you don’t know how it feels until you go through it. I thought I was immune to being cheated on but I got that bug and it SUCKED!

      • Chumpguy well said. It is simply impossible to comprehend the pain of being betrayed, without having experienced it yourself.

        It is one of those wormhole things, another dimension of [shit] experience, lost innocence, annihilation.

        It is one of the things that, if cheaters had enough integrity to come to their senses, realise the co worker isn’t all that and their marriage isn’t that bad, I don’t believe they should tell but carry the guilt and do their damnedest to be a better spouse from that moment on. For them it is a fire cracker, for the betrayed it is nuclear.

  • In my opinion, we have no right to judge others on what they do with their lives. If they want to be infested with STD’s, unplanned pregnancies, awkward goodbye’s after an hour or so of romping, well that is on them. I choose along with others on this website and agree that sleeping with multiple people and cheating is against our moral compass and values. I am neither stating that the commentators are invalid. I respect everyones opinions. Just think to yourself, have you have crazy fantansies? I bet you have. God, only knows what crazy thoughts you imagined in your head…sex parties? bondage? we are all human and we have our desires…what you choose to do with them is your own. What you thought or did is between yourself and God or if you don’t believe in anything…Oh My Nothing (OMN vice OMG) 🙂 Cheating and orgies are against my morals and values so that is a no go for me. I think I went off topic too much…had way to much cofee..forgive me.

    • Oh I’m sure plenty of us have had crazy fantasies, myself included (which I have, of course, shared with my husband, much to his delight.)

      I’m sure most of us here at CL aren’t against having fantasies and different things that turn us (and our spouses) on, but we’re not going to go out and act out such fantasies without our spouse’s knowledge or permission. I think we could all agree with the idea of “to each their own” but once lies and deceit enter the picture, then there’s a problem.

    • Hey, I’m all for honest polyamory. I’m against cheaters. I admit my dorkiness and hang-ups about not finding 100 naked strangers in a room one bit of a turn on. But I don’t judge people who do.

      I judge the writer for slamming monogamy and saying it’s predicated on a LIE. That (chumps) PREFER the lie. That’s when she got my dander up. Whatever kind of sex she wants, in a box, with a fox, with a third, in a herd… is her business.

  • On dday when my now exH and I were arguing over him “having a friend” as he put it, he said he couldn’t help, they were attracted to each other! Yep. I find men attractive all of the time. I could be walking down the street and see a really attractive guy but I don’t throw myself at other attractive men……I was married!!!!! UGH!

    One of the biggest causes of anxiety for me with getting divorced was going back out and dating. Being naked with a new man was making want to vomit with worry! I couldn’t image being naked with a ROOM full of naked people!!!! The horror!!!!!!!!!!

    • The difference between yourself and your ex is that you had self-control and you only desired your husband. Some people out there like what they have at home and also like to go to stores and try out new types of candy (metaphorically speaking). Finding someone attractive vs. getting them in the sack are way two different things. Your moral compass is pointing straight. The next guy you get or currently have will/is very lucky to have a woman like you in his life. Best of luck to you.

      • That’s pretty much what I was saying earlier. There’s such a big difference between thinking someone is attractive and actually having sex with them. The difference between us and our respective cheaters is we here at CL were able to handle whatever physical attractions we may have had to other people and remain fully faithful to our partners. Cheaters had zero self-control and shitty decision-making skills.

  • “One of the biggest causes of anxiety for me with getting divorced was going back out and dating. Being naked with a new man was making want to vomit with worry! I couldn’t image being naked with a ROOM full of naked people!!!! The horror!!!!!!!!!!”
    So, to share? Did you get through being naked with a new man? I only ask because someday I might be there again!! 🙂 (But I doubt it)

  • ChumpLady, I have often thought that some people who want to swing or have open marriages sound like they’re back in high school. They want to keep doing the find a date thing. It sounds miserable to me. I’m inclined to think that for some (many?), that they don’t know a better way to boost their ego than to prove that they’re one of the popular people who can get laid.

    Your piece today did a great job of skewering the whole orgy thing.

    Despite this invitation-only orgy, I suspect that there are orgies out there for everyone and some of them are full of people with wrinkles and pot bellies. Having sex with strangers does not make you one of the cool crowd.

  • Back when I was 18 yrs old, my boyfriend and best girlfriend and her boyfriend decided to experiment. Those were the early years of experimenting and, thank God, the last. It was my g/f’s idea and she was rather slutty – but, heck – why not? She took my b/f, and me and her b/f were supposed to get together. UGH – IT WAS HELL! Her b/f and I could not do a thing – we sort of kissed but that was it. Nice enough guy but there was no turn on for either of us. (this is most likely where emotions should set in, which they did for he and I) Well, they went on and had intercourse in front of us. I had never felt so low in all my life. The feelings of just ugh and disgust and guilt and..God, can’t remember them all – years later I can still think of adjectives that don’t describe the terrible feelings. After it was over we all left hanging our heads and I kept thinking of my b/f penetrating her. Let’s just say it was a complete disaster. I’ve never once thought of doing that again. Stupid stupid stupid. Just glad I never succumbed to the sickness of her ideas. Sure – I’ll bet it works for some but I don’t know how you turn off your brain when it’s wired emotionally, not just physically.

    • How long did your R last after that, SheChump? And how did your b/f react? Pleased with himself, or pretty ashamed?

      • Patsy – b/f also seemed ashamed. However, I stupidly went on to marry the guy and he cheated on me during the first month of our honeymoon. That marriage lasted all of 3 months. Me, the chump.

  • Slutever’s comments about monogamy remind of Mark Twain’s quote: “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

  • These people are losers, no doubt, but so long as they keep to themselves I don’t really care too much what they do.

  • OK – read the whole article.

    It seems like the orgy-folks are simply very focused on sex and admiration. I wonder how much of the conversation between partners in an “open” (ugh) relationship is NOT about sex. It’s a bit creepy.

    Why do they need so many rules? Why do they need a “love” relationship? Is it meant to be some sort of touchstone of normalcy amidst the chaotic narcissism that characterises their sex lives? I don’t get it.

    I suppose their response would be something along the lines of people being complicated, having a need for non-sexual intimacy, affection, normal-ness, whatever. But, orgy dudes and ladies, be serious. You just want to be free to bang whoever you want. Your commitment to your “love” partner is no commitment at all. They’re just an ornament you can hang off your arm when you need to come back to earth for a little while, to feel normal. The reason why you “can’t make it work” with one person is 100% attributable to the fact you have a great, big attention-seeking black hole inside yourself that is never going to be plugged by an infinity of sexual encounters with beautiful strangers.

    Other people’s needs simply don’t register with you, beyond politely checking that the person you’re about to whip is OK with you doing it.


    1) Hey, at least they aren’t dragging some chump into a slump with all the gaslighting/blameshifting, and

    2) I say let ’em have at it. Let them get the STD’s they deserve and clean out our gene pool a bit. As it it, our world has too many assholes, and not enough proctologists to cope with ’em all….

  • Chump in the Sand – ok, that was freaking hilarious – because it is true. There’s the truth – cleaning out the gene pool. And, my next statement has nothing to do with that one.

    My nephew got HIV at 17 yrs old because of unsafe sex. He’s currently trying to survive – and he admits it was all anal sex. (very open guy about this stuff) He’s more careful now and only dates equally HIV positive people also on good drugs. He’s MrGay of a big city this year! Anyway, I get off topic..

    Kendoll – this made me roar – “Other people’s needs simply don’t register with you, beyond politely checking that the person you’re about to whip is OK with you doing it.”

  • Chump in the Sand…You have a point.

    I’ve been peeking at the comments at work but didn’t dare write anything. Years ago (as in two decades) an old boyfriend (not the cheater) fancied himself a wanna be swinger. We went to this big party house near Seattle. It was three stories with tons of little fuck rooms and then one big fuck room and even a real live ‘torture’ chamber. Hahaha~ There were hot tubs galore and stands holding big baskets of condoms. Well….I got the giggles! Really bad and couldn’t stop laughing. It was the most absurd thing I’d ever seen. My boyfriend was so pissed at me but I just couldn’t help it.

    After witnessing three big black guys screw some big buxom blonde while her husband watched I said, ‘okay, that’s enough. I’m out of here.’ My boyfriend and I got in a big fight in the car on the way home. I couldn’t believe this was the shit he thought he needed in his life. I faded to gray in a hurry.

    I met Cheater Pants four years later and I was So Happy because he seemed so ‘normal.’ He loved sex but never demanded anything out of the ordinary. He never looked at porn. I thought I won the lottery. Come to find out that was another type of trick fuck.

    Now I see red flags everywhere.

    • I know this is going to sound very naive but how can 3 males screw 1 female?? Sorry to have to ask this question but I am puzzled.

      • My issue is with people who want non-traditional or non-monogamous relationships but marry or seemingly commit to people who want monogamy and then go about having traditional cake on one side and non-traditional cake on the other. I do understand how someone with these tastes might, when young, not be ready to fully own that preference and then get into a committed relationship that is not sustainable in the long run. That’s just people making mistakes and learning about themselves. The issue always comes back to power–someone in the relationship operating on two different value systems: pretending to be monogamous to the spouse and carrying on affairs or hiring hookers or “swinging” behind the spouse’s back.

  • P.S. I’m not one bit racist (my lovely grandchildren are of a different race)
    I just was going for the effect because that’s what I saw. I reread what I wrote and didn’t want anyone to think that I am.

  • Years ago, I ignored the sign (one of many) that I should have left my x (before he left me with 4 kids). I was forced to watch “Eyes Wide Shut” and listen to him say how great that looked. Yuck! I believe that Tom and Nicole got a divorce shortly after this wretched film was made. And yes, the porn!!! So much porn!!! Sodom and Gomorrah comes to mind. God wiped them out for all of this kind of behavior. I agree – let them all get the DTDs they deserve, but hopefully not give them to anyone how is not suspecting their involvement in this “lifestyle”.

  • It strikes me that there is a general theme with these types of writers whose articles you post here, CL: they , consistently, take positions that do not hold together logically.
    Like saying monogamy requires lying, as you point out. It is just a stupid statement.
    Same with the position that being monogamous means that you cannot be attracted to others. Who ever believed that.
    You cannot argue and score points with people like this. They are not bright enough.
    So, it is good that you have a readership where you can score thr points and they will register with third parties.

  • My best friend (RIP) had this great saying, “You can’t outsmart stupidity.” I just love that because you sure can bend your mind and exhaust yourself trying.
    I remember telling my Cheater that I had no problem at all not cheating- Why? Because I am an adult and I had my mind made up. No way for a sneaky thought to creep in like “maybe I should meet him for lunch or a drink after work,” or “I will just kiss him once and end it there,” or “I will just screw him once & it will be over.” Once you have your mind made up, it is non-negotiable. It is not only a promise you made to the other person, but to yourself as well. If you are smart, you catch yourself making such excuses and know where you are headed!
    I can’t stand the idea of these sex clubs because it is all about the “performance” not only for the person you are with, but those other spectators, their wife, husband, etc. It is phony, that is why I don’t like it. I agree it is like the “pick me” dance. IMO it reeks of immaturity.
    Fantasy can be the creator of great things, or bring pain & destruction.
    It is not too hard to see where things are headed. Adults that never grow up, can not find enough pleasure . I wish them luck finding any meaning in life.

  • I have never understood all the nonsense about monogamy being so hard. It was never tough for me to not fuck some man I wasn’t married to.

    As for that drivel about how great the “sex party” was, what a pathetic, empty group of people.

    • i completely agree with this. i dont know why it is so hard and all of a sudden so bad to stay with the same man forever.

      wtf is this we are not built to be with a single person all our lives. i just dont understand it either. my parents, my grandparents, my great grandparents, my great great grandparents and so have been with the same guy since teens. My grandmother married at 14!!! so it cant be all that hard.

      i have been attracted to a few men since getting married. one was my bf brother. he was super gorgeous, awesome personality, perfect body and i had tried with him in the past. (he had a gf so we didnt) but every time he was in town, i just simply did not go to her house. i never put myself in a position where i could say, but i was drunk, or whatever. i knew that man was one of my weaknesses so i stayed as far away from him as possible. it actually wasnt even hard to do. i valued my marriage and my husband much more then getting it on with this man who could make me cream just by saying hello. (of course NOW i am kicking myself in the ass, i should have took my opportunity!!! haha just kidding)

      seriously thou, if you truly love someone it is not hard to stay truthful. my love was true. it NEVER occurred to me that his love was conditional or had an expiration date.

  • I didn’t lie in my marriage and I did not being lied to. Sounds like slutwhoever thinks this is the latest rage, oh look at me I went to a party where in NY only the top 100 idiots were invited and we screwed in bathtubs. What a huge waste of time and I can’t even describe how disgusted I am.

    I frankly don’t think I would like to go to a glorified spoiled childs party who is now an adult and have anything to do with this. Who was the planner of this party, do they draw straws? Do they take money, vote? Is the planner the best one fucked or the best fucker or best idiot at the last party.

    I feel sorry for the staff that has to alcohol wipe off all the furniture that their bare asses sat on and all the semen all over the place, to think of them pulling up the blinds, yuck, I am so grossed out now.

    A disgusting adult child ass idiot look at me look I never grew up sex idiot blah just blah

    What a bunch of assholes, do they have anything to do that would amount to anything, anything at all?????????

  • I really don’t give a damn if people are into orgies, I just don’t like being put down by the 100 whore assholes from NY

  • Why don’t they do something much more cleaver, fuck in central park on a Wednesday at 8 am for everyone to see, there you go, be proud fuck in a public park you jerks.

  • Just wanted to point out that the author in both this article and the older one she linked back to is honest in saying she really just wants to be able to have sex with other people but she does not want her SO to do so. The older article says she tried the open relationship thing and it didn’t work for her. So basically if the article has any point it’s that she would like to believe monogamists want to be lied to because that is the only way she can get what she really wants; the freedom to fuck who she wants while having a spouse who will not fuck anyone except her and rationalize it as justified.

    I think polyamory is a good thing, also that it is unattainable for most of us due to our cultural and environmental upbringing. I think most open relationships are much like the authors, unworkable. I am a naturist and have encountered many swingers due to their propensity for nude beaches. In my experience only, nearly all swingers I’ve met and/or observed exhibit really deep mysoginistic behaviors, it would take pages to explain it so I won’t try. They are also almost universally in your face with their “lifestyle”. On that note; I really wish the damn swingers would be more circumspect on nude/naturist beaches. There are so few places any more where naturist families can feel comfortable going with their kids now.

  • Vogue has to put a few pages of text in between some of the advertisements or subscribers would literally be paying for nothing but 120 pages of slick adds every month (600 pages in October).

    Brag pieces like this have never resonated with me. The intended subtext of all of these types of articles is essentially — “Look at me. I am intelligent, successful, enlightened/sexy/attractive/desirable and hip enough to be invited to hobnob with the creme de la creme of NYC’s most beautiful/smart/successful/hip people. I’m kind of a big deal.”


    I suspect that they appeal to the kinds of people who never outgrow the need to be one of the cool kids. The fact that people can actually draw a real check for writing things like this over and over and over and over and over and over again tells you that there are quite a few people like this in the world.

    It’s probably best to avoid them when possible.

  • Why would anyone in their right mind take this columnist seriously? It’s just go shock value…for about 2 seconds, then it’s a big yawn. What this young girl doesn’t seem to know yet is that her thousands of slutty images will never be able to be completely erased from the web. I’d be willing to be there will come a day when she regrets her lurid marketing of her face.

    She will find herself sidelined and ignored, lost among the thousands of other tarts who ply their trade on the web rather than on the street in years gone by. What the hell does she know about relationships – she’s barely out of the cradle.

  • Love this graphic…Looks like my xbf… He had a bunch of weird sexuality things too. Now his new flame is having to deal with this and so much more, all covered in a layer of sweetness and concern. I trust he sucks but should have seen those redflags coming… They were there flying high and in my face.

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