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Dear Chump Lady, He started cheating the first month we dated

Dear Chump Lady,

I Google’ed “I have been cheated on, now what?” and I came across your blog.

We have been dating for roughly 6 months. He started seeing me first, around the end of March 2014. He went to Vegas for business and met the “other” woman about a month into our relationship. While he was in Vegas, he told me that he loved me for the first time, I thought it was too soon, but I felt this unique connection with him. While he was there. he met her. She is from Scotland and is in the same line of work as him, marketing.

I just found out about this on August 28. He had been staying with me in the middle of a move to a new place, and he had gone to work and left his laptop open and on… and right there at the bottom of his email feed was an email from this woman… The other woman, from about a month previous. The subject line said something along the lines of “I love you little lady.” I had to open it to find out if this was a relative, I have never heard of her before… But, it wasn’t. She was indeed the other woman.

Apparently he had ended it and by ended it I mean he just stopped talking to her. He said that he knows it is weak, but he is glad that I found out, he realized that he had everything he needed in me and that he had been selfish, a liar, and completely manipulated the situation. He said that the connection with her was strong, they shared similar backgrounds… (it was as if he had found the female version of himself…he said). But, he still kept me around, still told me he loved me, I was with him constantly, the thought that he was involved with another woman did not enter my mind. But, when I thought about it, she lived in Scotland, he did go to Scotland for business…And met up with her. And that was the only time they were physical.

Every question I ask, every hurt that I express, ever amount of anger that I confess to him, he takes it.

This is so very difficult for me. I have never felt unconditional love for someone before him. There was always an condition. With him (the cheater), I could be myself completely and he accepted me. If I shared a complaint it was listened to. I just felt at peace. Everything you described in the “Real Remorse” article he is doing. I am just so hurt. I want to believe he is remorseful and it genuinely appears to be remorse.

I remember a little over a month ago, I had come over to his house after his son was asleep ( I have not met his son or his family yet….probably a good thing). He was sitting on the sofa and he was obviously stressed with work. He had a business and it was failing, so this was a common occurrence, him stressing. This time he was crying, and sitting there looking at me, telling me how beautiful I was, and how much he loved me, and how I was his rock. And from that night on, he has been so loving, it seemed like this invisible switch had changed in him. So, about a month after this is when I found out that he had been communicating with this other woman.

I am not sure how to move forward. I have not completely separated from him, we are trying to work it out, but I go through moments of complete pain and moments of numbness, and I can actually smile. But, he tells me all the time that the sadness in my eyes kills him and that he would do anything to fix this. And I need to tell him what it is. But, I have no clue. His remorse and actions after I found out have felt completely legit, but I thought that everything before this was completely legit. Part of me thinks that he was just really lost, and trying to figure things out, in the most selfish, jacked up way possible. And, then I have this feeling that I am a trophy, something he wants to have, not love. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t see this in his behavior currently. But, that is definitely what I was before.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Dear Lori,

SIX MONTHS? This much drama in SIX MONTHS?

Are you freaking kidding me?

Let’s review:

He says he loves you a month into dating. Way too soon. A red flag of abusers, called “love bombing.” You spackle.

He cheats on you in Vegas.

He cheats on you in Scotland.

You discover he’s still communicating with the OW. You also say “Apparently, he ended it.” Apparently, he did not, Lori.

Oh, and he’s in marketing! Enjoy this Bill Hicks routine about people in marketing. (Apologies to any chumps in marketing. This is for the consumerists, the sleazy salesmen, the horn dog conventioneers. Not chumps in honest professions doing good in the world…. cheaters come in all shapes and sizes. But I cannot resist sharing Bill Hicks.)

Then we have the sociopath freak flags — instant connection, he loves you “unconditionally” (I’ll bitchslap you on that one in a moment), he tells you WHO HE IS — “selfish, a liar, completely manipulated the situation.” He sees people as extensions of himself. You feel like a “trophy” and the OW is “as if he had found the female version of himself.”

You know what kind of people see people as objects and manipulate with the ease of breathing? Cluster B fuckers, that’s who.

Cluster B fuckers and marketing salesmen. (There’s a Venn diagram!)  They can sell the sell. They’re real good at making you think they have what you need. The customer is always right (I will love you unconditionally!) But this guy is just in it for the kibbles — what you can do for him. A sofa to sleep on when he’s moving. A pretty trophy.  A shoulder to cry on when his business is failing. (Too many trips to Scotland, asshole?)

He wants a chump.

Will you believe he’s really just “lost”? Will you spackle? Will you accept this high drama shit during the honeymoon phase of the relationship? Will you be a nice front of normalcy for his double life? Will you let a guy you’ve only known a month move in while he’s between living arrangements?

I want to believe he is remorseful and it genuinely appears to be remorse.

I want to believe I’m a Celtic warrior princess. Oh hang on, I’m a middle-aged woman living in bum fuck Texas.

Put down the pretty lie, Lori. What on earth are you taking as “remorse”? The fact that he lets you get upset with him? That he tells you he sees the hurt in your eyes?

He GETS OFF on that. Your pain and upset are KIBBLES. Disordered freaks feed on our pain. It gives them kibbles of centrality. It shows them that no matter how much shit they dish out to you, you’ll take it. Good reliable chump! You’ll be there for them, you’ll try working it out for them, you’ll do the heavy lifting. All they need to do is pretend like they give a shit. But pretty soon, he’ll stop doing that. Aren’t you over this? Are you going to keep bringing that up?

Lori — take a big step BACK.

It’s been SIX MONTHS. This guy isn’t even a polished abuser (give him some time, he’ll perfect his act). He dropped the mask one month in. He showed you he’s a freak with a double life who “loves” another woman (women, probably if you look some more. Go talk to the mother of his son). He couldn’t even maintain a mask of sanity for a MONTH.

Is this relationship acceptable to you? Do you want this kind of shit and drama in your life? Do you realize that the early months of dating are supposed to be easy breezy? Dining out and sex! Do you realize what you’re signing up for by setting your standards so very low? It doesn’t get better, Lori. You don’t get big rewards for your investment in his fuckupedness — you get more mindfuckery and abuse.

Oh, he listens to you. He loves you unconditionally.

Bullshit. He loves himself unconditionally. Everyone else is kibbles.

Grown up love is CONDITIONAL love. Get that through your noggin. The conditions are — you don’t treat me like shit. You don’t disrespect me. You don’t expose me to harm. You do those things? GAME OVER. I’m done with you.

Grown ups set boundaries with love. We don’t accept any pile of shit unconditionally. We only love small children unconditionally, and that (if you do it right) is years of setting limits and imposing discipline so your kids don’t grow up to be entitled assholes. If your children grow up to treat you like shit, then you can still love them — not unconditionally! — but you “detach with love.” You DETACH. Healthy love does not mean accepting people’s abusive shit.

Nobody just loves, loves, loves you regardless of what you do or who you are. I think chumps know this and take it too far. We try so hard to earn love and be more worthy — it makes us vulnerable to disordered freaks, who either promise to love old unworthy us, or dazzle us with sparkles.

Know your worth. When you know your worth, you’ll know you’re a good partner to a good person who is worthy of you. You’ll set boundaries and you won’t be afraid to walk away when you’re mistreated. When you love, you’ll take the risk, because you know yourself. You won’t get lost, your core values will still be there.

Lori, you’ve lost yourself in this relationship. You’re hung up on him and what he did, might be doing, and his issues. He cheated on you WEEKS after knowing you. FUCK him. Kick this guy to the curb and go no contact. Work on yourself and fix that picker before you get out there again. You love a figment. Good men don’t cheat on you. Especially not in the earliest stages of a relationship. Sociopathic players do that. Watching you cry isn’t remorse — it means he’s got a soul of naugahyde.

Dump him. Go no contact and stay no contact. Every comment you get here will be from someone who learned these lessons the hard way.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Wow.

    First, this commenter did indeed learn, very much the hard way, the lessons of paying attention to deeds not words; believing what the other person is showing you about him/herself the *first* time; and the crucial importance of respecting yourself enough to require decency and reciprocity in your relationships. That’s the only ‘unconditional’ in my relationships with adults: I unconditionally, absolutely, unreservedly require that folks who want to be connected with me treat me with honesty and respect, and that in all our dealings we have mutual expectations of the same. There is no authentic relationship without trust.

    This guy is organizing his “relationships” (read, feedings) as a predator does. That’s really all you need to know about him. The NC decision may (initially) be uncomfortable, but it’s not negotiable.

    To my mind, what’s significantly more important now is: what do you need to know about you?

    how did this guy seem like the right fit for you? is he your first taker-relationship? often (not always), people are set up for romantic versions of emotional vampires by patterns formed in childhood — parents, often, or other faux-nurturers whose mode of care (or rather, “care”) was warped by their own immaturity (or worse) to shape your responses to them in ways that diminished you in ways that favored them. If that’s true for you, this is an entirely productive way/time/opportunity to address that for yourself now.

    Note that this is not to blame you, the victim of deceit, for trusting him as your relationship began. But now you have immensely valuable information about him and about yourself. If there is anything useful to come out of this crisis ( point of decision), please don’t waste it.

    However you got here, how are you going to proceed in future relationships so as to safeguard yourself from someone (else) who, whatever pretty words he uses, and whatever warm feelings the connection generates, is treating you as prey?

    It’s so good that you are not financially/legally tied to him. It’s a kind of blessing to take time to pay attention to yourself and grow strong and confident in your boundaries.

    Peace and strength to you.

  • A guy who cheats on you a month into the relationship is not a keeper, sad to say, regardless of how much remorse you think he’s showing.

    This is a deal-breaker for you. It’s been six months and you’re still in the middle of it. Leave. Go No Contact. If you’re stuck in a lease together, then break the lease as soon as possible.

    andstillirise is right; now is the time to reflect on how you got to where you are. This was an unfortunate first time. Learn how to set boundaries, learn your own worth. There’s no guarantee that the next guy won’t be a jackass, but hopefully your jackass filter will be so finely tuned that you can screen him out early in the process.

    There are plenty of good, trustworthy men out there. The one you’re with isn’t one of them. Leave him and find one who is.

  • Okay, this is why i love chumplady!

    “I want to believe I’m a Celtic warrior princess. Oh hang on, I’m a middle-aged woman living in bum fuck Texas.”

  • Oh sweetie, please…RUN, don’t walk…RUN RUN RUN in the opposite direction from this guy. I spent the last 20 years with a clusterB ass. Cut your losses now and make a life for yourself, learn from this experience and find someone who will respect you!

    *BTW, my exH is in marketing. TRUE TRUE TRUE. Thanks CL. You validate me every time I read here.
    I know I made the right decision!!!!!

  • Lori,
    Read and re-read what you wrote to CL. Do you see it?—that you are agonizing and pining over a LOSER?! Every action and word on his part says he is a USER. He feigns caring for the upset you, the you that was hurt by *him*.

    Let my life be a big STOP sign, a red light to you. I went through this and wish I had someone like CL to take the blinders off, but I didn’t. Everything in my relationship escalated into abuse in all it’s realms. *You will be no exception.* GET OUT! Then take the time to learn why you attract and/or accept these mind manipulators into your life. You might cry for a season now over someone you loved (someone who is a lie), but at least he will not have robbed you of a LIFETIME. And as hard as it is to know, he does *not* love *you*. You are an object and expendable to him. You are really in love with what you *want* him to be and *hoping* he will become; ===>he *won’t.*
    Take *your* life back! Oh, be prepared for him to either pull out all the stops with his crying show or erupt with a cascade of anger; either meant to hold you captive. Kick his user butt to the curb and LEAVE him there!

  • Dear Lori,

    Took me a long time to comprehend this: (found on Pinterest)

    “Sometimes giving someone a second chance is like…….
    Giving them an extra bullet for their gun because they missed you the first time.”

    Get away fast and far…..

    Forge on, Lori….ForgeOn, Nation

    • Oh thank you, thank you “ForgeOn” for this jewel. I am going to put this on my wall!

      Ha ha ha ha ha

      • Excellent analogy-you truly have dodged a bullet. But he still shot at you-and that is traumatic.

        It sucks, sweetie, no matter if it was six months, six years, six kids or six D-days, and we feel for you. The amount of time left doesn’t change the shock and the pain. Our cheaters all swept us off our feet, and this is part of their modus operandi.

        I trust Chump Lady (who is a Celtic Warrior Princess in disguise) and Chump Nation more than I trust Congress, the Oxford English Dictionary and Coffee. What convinced me that Mr Fab wasn’t going to repent or reconcile was coming here and learning that just about EVERY cheater acts in the same way. Our personal tales are just different stripes in the shit sandwich. That takes a while to sink in, but once it does, you are on the way to ‘Meh’, that wondrous state of not caring any more. Beyond ‘Meh’, it might be happily ever after, or at least, aware ever after.

        And the first step on that road is No Contact. Cut and cauterize. Come here if you need to get the poison out, we will listen. You wouldn’t cut more meat off your leg for the shark who just bit you, so do not give this creep one more speck of attention. Talk to us-if you talk to him, you are just bleeding into the water….

        love to all in Chump Nation!

        • Dearest Mehphista!

          I LOVE THIS:
          “You wouldn’t cut more meat off your leg for the shark who just bit you…..”

          One more fine example as to why this site is so awesome and motivating and clarifying!

          Going in my ‘Chumplady Comments’ forever folder!!!

          Love to you all on this fabulous Sunday!!

          • Right back atcha, Forge. Loved your bullet analogy-and who wants to be Mrs William Burroughs?

            Happy Sunday!


          • Hey to ‘all ya all’!

            So glad the ‘bullet’ analogy helped you! Sure helped me! (Love those ‘sayings’ boards on Pinterest)
            And Dat, BIG HUGS that you are still alive to be a part of this great Nation! I can not even fathom such an experience!

            Take care, all…….and ForgeOn!

    • Even funnier in my case since he went past all the second chances and literally almost shot me, extra bullet? Gun was fully loaded.

    • I love this! I’m going to tape this to my bathroom mirror so I can be reminded of this everyday until I am safely to the other side of this mess.

  • Chump lady is right. Leave him. RUN and don’t look back!! Dating is the time of your relationship where it is the best it’s ever going to be. Suitors should be wooing you, bringing their A game, treating you nice so you will fall in love with them. This guy just dumped a bucket of ice cold water on yhe flames of love he just ignited. That should tell you all you need to know. Forget what he says! Buy some good ear plugs and Fuck that noise. He has SHOWN you how he feels about you. You are worth more than he will ever be capable of giving you. Find someone that deserves you. HUGE HUGS!!!

  • Lori, like CL and Chump Nation have said, this is not a good way to start a relationship and it will only get worse no matter what he says. You deserve better.

    It’s a tough decision to make, because he will almost certainly pull out all the stops and try to woo you back. His ego won’t be able to handle your strong decision. That’s why no contact is vital.

    He’s blown it, Lori, and you’re lucky that you saw through it at six months and not six years, or thirty six years, or not after having three kids with him. Now make a run for it and work on your picker for a while. You deserve better.

    On a side note, CL, I love Bill Hicks.

  • As some know, I just got divorced. So I have been indulging in some post divorce reflections. Like I wish I had a time machine that would take me back to the moment in the relationship before…but there is no before, because the relationship STARTED at Mindfuck Central.

    And that includes the reel in-a few lines of poetry, the odd present, a meal out where I remember feeling like I was being observed. Then the first sign of abuse-

    He: Can you lend me some money for travel fares.
    Me: Have you not got enough then?
    He: Well if you don’t want to lend me it. If money’s more important than us.
    Me: (Guilt ridden, shamed,for being so selfish). Oh, no of course…..

    Of course I gave him the fare money… then a place to stay, then paid the bills, then supported him when he didn’t have a job and set him up in businesses, then ‘forgave’ him his EAs and his addictions (sex and alcohol). And of course I married him (because he was so glad to have found me- his soul mate).

    Only when the OW arrived on the scene did I finally realise what a rigged game this had been. Five years later.

    Only then, did I do what you’ve done Lori and Google the problem and found the solution here (and on quite a few other websites dealing with men out of the crazy mould).

    I wished for a time machine and it’s arrived, but I don’t need it now. Here take it Lori and move fast into the future and away from Mr Wrong.

    • Great advice and I want to add to Lori that all this drama between them might make her feel sort of “special” and as if they are bonding over this situation and getting to a deeper place. But that is misleading and it is entirely the wrong thing to bond over.

        • Wow, and thanks, Mikky, that was a fascinating link and I think it would benefit many of us chumps. I am certain the trauma bonding is why I’m finding everything so difficult.

          • Hi Moving Liquid- the rest of the site is also very informative. I find I just have to keep reading relevant material on the Mindfuck Experience and reassessing my experience until the heart catches up with the mind.

            • I’ve been poking around and it is an interesting site. His info on narcissistic people is really eye opening. My heart needs to catch up with my mind too. I guess this bond I’m feeling to a guy who doesn’t deserve it is really just a sort of muscle memory. I need to exercise that muscle in a new way.

        • Wow, that article is amazing. Had to read this a few times to comprehend it: ” . . . while it is very easy to become attached to a very chaotic and inconsistent person, it is simply not possible to form a consistent internal object representation (feeling memory) about them. When separated from the intense partner, the urge to make contact is usually intense because it is a stable feeling memory (or internal object) that makes separation from an important other person tolerable in any circumstance.” Which I interpreted to mean, “I don’t know *what* I feel about this person/what he/she meant when she/he said X, whether I was able to explain myself about Y. I think I’ll go back and try this again, because I am in a perpetual state of confusion coupled with a strong need to sort this out.” This in comparison with the healthy alternative of, “I know this person has my back. I can now mount up and go slay dragons.”
          This might be a critical piece of this puzzle that has been my life.

        • Dear Mikky,

          Thank you so much for that link!! I believe this should be ‘required reading’! Wow! Resonates big time with my experience……Am sure ’tis true for many others in the Nation.

          Thank you again. l am looking forward to exploring the rest of the info on that site.

          Forge on, Mikky…….ForgeOn, all ya all!!

        • I was just going to suggest that you read up on trauma bonding… you beat me to it. It is a real thing… and it will mindfuck you for a very long time. That is what he is doing to you Lori, trauma bonding you. Lori, Chump Lady and everyone is right… he is crazy making, and a Cluster B Fucker… either a narcissist or a borderline. Doesn’t matter, the traits are still the same. Run! Run! Run!… Be Mighty… and Run away form this, there is no happy ending here.

        • Huh. That explains a lot! Printing this out for the “read when feeling confused” wall. Thank you!

    • Congrats Mikky.
      Ahhhh the 20/20 hindsight truck hit me too after the end of the nightmare (that started as a dream, or so I thought)! It was a rigged game.
      All the loss of money, time, opportunities, that are still worth it for the freedom from manipulations.

      • Oh, that damn 20/20 hindsight truck! It never seems to miss a round (unlike the karma bus that is never around when you want it).

  • Lori,
    Oh my goodness! I read your letter and I saw flashing neon signs of spackle. Good grief girl, this guy CHEATED on you in the first month? How do you spackle that one??

    I met a man a couple of years ago and this summer we decided to take it to the next level. Up front I told him, ‘I will not put up with any shit.’ I asked him if we were going to be together he would not pursue other women and he gave me his WORD that he wouldn’t. He had been on a dating site for quite awhile before we had agreed to take it to the next level. He mentioned at the time that he needed to take his profile down since now we are together as a ‘couple’. Guess what? I checked yesterday and found out he had NOT taken his profile down and it said that ‘he had been online today.’ He’s hearing crickets from me now. He said he just ‘forgot’ to take it down and he WAS NOT on line yesterday, blah blah blah. I don’t have time for this shit. After being cheated on by husband who I loved with all my heart nothing can ever hurt me that deeply again. I slept like a baby last night. That’s how little it bothered me dumping him.

    Run Run Run away from this shit head Lori. You don’t have that much invested in him. Like CL said, the first six months of a relationship should be about the wine and roses. Not spackling for a cheater. Know your worth. He’s not worthy of you.

    • I’ve thinking if we have to tell someone we won’t take any shit from them, we’re already sensing something is wrong.

      • Ann…no I’m just snake bit. I’ll tell every man I meet that same thing. If I’m single forever, so be it. I have a great single life.

        • I agree, Syringa, I have two deal breakers: drugs and cheating. Anyone I am involved with (family, friends, and others) know my values are important to me. I have found that if I am immediately up front and honest with others then it’s a quick way of weeding out people who aren’t worth my time. I wasted enough of my life with a cheating lying POS ex to put up with any more shit.

        • Syringa,
          I understand what you mean.
          For me, it just reminds me of all the things I said I wouldn’t put up with at the beginning of the relationship and then he was *sure* to take extra measures to hide or wait to do them until after the wedding.

  • When CL said you have lost yourself in this relationship, listen.
    Or you can choose to lose so very, very much more by remaining with him.
    And marketers are manipulators pure and simple with the only motivation being greed and numbers. They’re not in it for world peace. Maybe pieces of the world but definitely not altruistic beings for the most part. My dear niece is in it and she would agree. She now does marketing for a prosthetics company to help war veterans. Best of luck to you.
    Run like the effin’ wind.

  • Shit Lori,
    Please listen to the wise advice. Don’t become me. I married the asshole. He had stepped out of the fucking marriage at the 24-30ish month mark…that I know of. It’s been a 20yr marriage; I discovered his deliberate second life last yr. Yup, he’s in sales and he was so fucking believable!

    Leave the creep. Don’t buy his “remorse” bullshit. Move FORWARD and away from the crazy making. Don’t let him suck your soul out of you any longer. RUN.

  • Lori,

    Knee-deep in picking up the shattered pieces of myself after my 2nd Dday two weeks ago (first was 6 months ago, relationship was 5 years). I would encourage you to drink deeply from the fountain of wisdom you find here.

    ‘If only there had been such obvious red flags at the beginning of my relationship,’ is what I thought when I read your letter. If only it had all been so crass, then I might have seen, then I might have been spared the wasted time, the embarrassment, the erosion of my self respect….but, maybe it WAS that obvious, maybe like you I didn’t see, maybe like you I wanted a different answer.

    You are at the beginning of this relationship. This is him wooing you. This is him at the height of his infatuation with you. How do you feel? How is this relationship making you feel? Hurt? Bewildered? Betrayed? Confused? Sound like a good time? Want more? Stay in, that’s what he’s selling, that’s what you’re buying.

    Instead say “Thank you, but no thank you.” And move on. Move on while all you have to do is dust yourself off, mourn the potential you thought you saw (like a mirage in the desert), and be a bit embarrassed you cared about a dog turd.

    I’m not trying to minimize how you feel about him, but I just would not wish what I am going through on anyone, and hope that by writing you’ll find the strength to walk away and be spared.

    If you do, I promise a future day will arrive where you think to yourself, ‘Phew! Bullet, dodged.’

    Because I can assure you, from the outside looking in to the situation you describe….no good can come from this. You are worth infinitely more.

    • Sorry about your second DDay, McChumperson. (((hugs))) Wishing you strength for your own get-away-from-that-shit journey.

  • INCONGRUENT. Things that do not match. His words and actions do not match. In life you need people who always match words and actions. This means friends, co-workers and lovers. Why? Because otherwise they are screwing with your head. Do you think you will enjoy always wondering what he is up to? Well, that will be your life, and you know it, otherwise you would not have written to CL.

  • Run, Lori! I found out that my XH cheated on me just weeks after we were engaged. How did I discover it? He picked me up at the airport–we were getting ready to drive to his family’s house for Christmas and to spread the good news of our engagement–and the OW followed him, jumped out of her car, and started screaming that he had said he loved her. He told me she was crazy, that it had been a one-night stand, he would never do it again, he adored me, etc. I was 23. I believed him. Guess what–25 years later, the cheater for whom I had made so many excuses dumped me. Our children were devastated, and he lives in Europe with his current wife, holding an important job because he markets himself so well. I can’t get those years back, but this doesn’t have to happen to you, Lori. If only I’d listened to my gut all those years ago! Trust your instincts and cut him off. Best of luck.

  • If this person is treating you like this now, there really isn’t much future in a relationship with him surely? The first few months should be fantastic! Be thankful that he has shown his true colours before you have invested too much and GET OUT fast. You will find someone much more deserving and don’t be afraid to set your boundaries. All of us here would have done just that with the benefit of hindsight. Stay strong and good luck.

  • As soon as I heard he cried I had a flashback. Poor little sausage is having a tough time and whoops! His dick fell into a vagina that doesn’t belong to you.

    Seriously, dump the bum. 6 months wasted? A ‘connection’? Get over it. As CL says, if this is the drama when you’re in the honeymoon phase and you stick around start saving for the years of therapy you and whatever kids you might unfortunately have with this bozo are going to need.

    I was going to say sorry for being so tough but I’m not sorry. You need a sharp knock in the head to snap you out of it. This guy is trash. Dump him on the side of the street where he belongs.

  • Lori,
    You are so busy spackling the red flags that you have yourself in a big Chump-muddle.

    This guy is a liar. He is weak. He is drama. Why would anyone need or want a partner like that. You would be better off alone.

    Stop feeling sorry for this weeping man. He is an attention whore, and that is the classic sign of a chronic cheater. You should have walked the minute you saw that original email, and never looked back. Have some self- respect.

  • Lori,

    What you wrote is like your own private parade of red flags, pay attention to them as CL says. You are not invested in this dude as his wife. Run away while you can.

    I played collegiate football, and even in that highly sexual environment, we all knew as guys not to date two girls at the same time. That’s a scumbag move. My point is guys DO exist out there who have far more character than this dude you are dating. Don’t settle.

    And I want to remind you that he cheated on you showed FALSE remorse as proven by continuing contact with the OW behind your back. He blew his second chance, which he wasn’t even entitled to even. You can walk away with your head held high knowing this.


    • Oh my, if this is how a relationship starts, I can’t even imagine how it ends if you stay in it.

      My Cheater is a salesman too. He has a special salesman voice he uses. Soothing, dependable, trustworthy. Fake.

      This profession isn’t near the top of the Cheater Food Chain for nothing. He had his whore in his phone under a fake name. Tried to sell me on the “she’s a customer” horseshit. Well, a quick reverse phone check proved that for the lie it was.

      Like everyone says, RUN! This guy is a complete unfeeling psychopath, without a doubt.

      • Oh goodness…”customer” calling at every wee hour of the day and night…my a$$!!! Know that play all too well. Bastards!!!!

      • Mine was an award-winning used car salesman….so good at it that he was promoted to managing the dealership and had such a reputation for success with that that he could quit a job and take the summer off and return, no worries, to his pick of management positions at any dealership in the area. They fought over him. Why? Because he is an award winning liar. Top of the heap. I really didn’t understand what that all meant until recently. Do I feel stupid? Yes.

        He was “relieved to get caught”, too, because “It was stressful – all the lies, living the double life….I will be so relieved to be done with that! Because, you know what it is? One lie leads to another.”
        And off we went to another 7 months of False Reconciliation.

        Don’t make the mistake of thinking that your guy sees the universe the way that you do. Don’t assume that your values are really his. He just knows what to say to you.

        • This is true! His AP once told me that “they talked seriously about moving in together, marriage, kids and their future together” – He was dawdling about moving out of our house and I told him to go be happy, that she seems happy with their plans. He seemed confused and when I told him what she said, he said that *she* would talk about those things, but (in his mind) by agreeing that SHE wanted them, he said he wasn’t agreeing that HE wanted them with her. He totally played her as well. It’s all double talk and telling people what they need to hear to avoid the most conflict, regardless of the truth or foundation of anything.

  • At some point you are going to have to believe you are a person worthy of being treated with dignity respect and honor. Obviously you really want to be in a good committed relationship where two partners work in an honest fashion toward a fulfilling long term result. Thats good. Means you are normal. Your choice of this guy was a huge mistake but its not a reflection of you, you bought the sales pitch. Walk away, spend 6 months in a gym, reading good books, watching comedies and basically give up on relationships. Love yourself as a person alone and realize these assholes take advantage of us because they enjoy it. We arent the problem but we will enable them if we buytheir bullshit.

    • “Walk away, spend 6 months in a gym, reading good books, watching comedies and basically give up on relationships. Love yourself as a person alone — ”

      Scott, that is great advice for ALL OF US. This past year while hellish for me has also been one of the longest times I haven’t been in a relationship in my whole life. And I’ve come to realize that I sort of like it. What an eye opener.

      Now I know if and when I do get involved with someone else, I won’t lose my identity in that relationship as I have always done before. That time alone is crucial and healthy.

      • Lori, For a whole bunch of fucked up FOO reasons, I never thought I could make it on my own… but I have been alone for two years… I acknowledge that I have a crappy picker that needs to be fixed, but I am learning that I am way better alone with wonderful friends than trying to make relationships with man as I have done in the past. Take some time off, learn about your self, learn about your FOO issues, start to believe that you are way better alone than with a shit sandwich for a man… These wonderful people here will be here for you. Give you cyber hugs… you might in the end be grateful for this guy becuase getting away from him gave you strength and insight you might never have had, never mind missing out of 30 years of hell. Much love, be strong and mighty.

  • ‘What’s past is prologue,” per Shakespeare or the updated version of Dr. Phil is, “Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.” Lori, you are spackling for reasons you need to explore. Why in heaven’s name do you think your boyfriend’s behavior is even loving? I am coming from a place of decades of spackling and am now out so I can spot bullshit a mile away. He doesn’t love you, Lori, screw his words. It’s all about actions. Words are very cheap; you can even teach a parrot to talk. You want so much to believe he loves you. Aren’t you concerned that you sound desperate? My heart aches for you because you are in for heartbreak after heartbreak if you do not run away (NOW) from this sordid mess. What are you waiting for? He has shot your heart with an arrow and you’re hanging around for the next one? Trust me, it’s coming. He’s sorry? If he didn’t get caught, he won’t be sorry. That line about he’s glad he got caught? Looks to me like he’s a smooth talker. The crying? Please. One could cut up onions and do that.

    Lori, you only had six months with this loser. Believe me when I tell you that you are better off being alone rather than be the object of abuse of this loser. In the end, it’s your call. You want to loved, valued and respected? Run. You want your heart decimated over and over again? Then stay. I hope you honor yourself enough to leave.

    • Almost all of them cry, don’t you think? Mine did a similar trick where he was so thankful that I caught him “before anything really happened” because (sniffle, sniffle) he almost lost all that was important to him in this world. Gag.

  • Another red flag: you’ve been dating half a year, and have yet to meet his family? You’re allowed to come over after his son falls asleep? That’s just . . . ewwwww . . . surely you see this? He’s already practiced at compartmentalizing his life, possibly because he doesn’t want his relatives to take you aside and start conversations with, “You seem to be a very nice person, and I feel obligated to let you know a few things.”

    • THIS! EnoughAlready, especially the thoughts on compartmentalization. Lori, if you do pursue this relationship, meet his relatives and close friends. My ex did not have any real friends (and those he spent time with were never around me) and family was hundreds of miles away. Makes it easy to seem “normal.”

  • Hello Lori,

    I’m from the future and I’m here to tell you this doesn’t work out. Your future self is kicking herself in the butt as we speak because she didn’t pay close enough attention to the red flags.

    Hardly any of us want to hear or admit this to ourselves but when we’re in a committed relationship and the person we’re committed to, sleeps with someone else-they just aren’t that into us anymore. They’re also cowards, liars, cheaters, etc for handling it that way but they make their choice the first time they decide to sleep with someone else.

    Why they stay afterwards has nothing to do with them loving us, caring for us or whatever other fucked up reason they give for cheating. They either want cake or they’re too cowardly to be the one that actually leaves the relationship first. Do you want to be with a selfish liar or a coward?

    Your future self doesn’t want you to be and neither should your present self. Run like hell, go NC and don’t look back!

  • Lori,

    You are lucky you are only 6 month into this. Please don’t make the mistake of dragging it out to see if he changes. Just don’t. Forget all the silly nonsense your heart is trying to make you believe. Don’t wait until you have kids and a wedding ring on your finger wake up and realize you made a huge mistake. Get out now before it because a mistake. I promise you it will and when it does you won’t have anyone to blame but yourself for not getting out when you had the chance.

  • Dear Lori:
    Consider yourself lucky as I was. Mine lasted 10 months and trust me when I tell you it was 10 months longer than it should have been. It took me a little bit more than a year to recover from the hell of being with a serial cheater. Run don’t walk away from this asshole. Don’t under any circumstances second guess yourself. He SUCKs and doesn’t give a shit about you, he said it himself, LISTEN TO HIM!!! SEE WHAT HE DID!!!. All of the negative stuff you state in your letter, that’s the truth of who he is.

    He is FUCKED UP and will not become UNFUCKED UP! Trust me, I’ve been there. I know and learned the hard way first hand.

    Don’t let him FUCK YOU UP anymore than he has already. It DOES NOT get better, IT DOES GET WORSE and MORE WORSE. I say this with 100% confidence as he already admitted to cheating on you. It will happen again and again and again. His coping skills when things go bad are based upon feeling better by cheating. It doesn’t stop. It continues and get’s worse because you invest more and more in him and your relationship and he invests only in himself. You don’t count. No one else does.

    Trust that the Scottish woman will not have it any better, don’t let him fool you. He just keeps on doing the same thing over and over and doesn’t learn. His kids don’t matter, his ex wife doesn’t matter, you don’t matter, the Scottish woman doesn’t matter. ONLY HE MATTERS TO HIM.

    Move on and be happy. It sucks, it’s painful, it makes you take a good hard look at yourself and why you even thought of accepting this bad behavior which is actually abuse and rebuild yourself for FAR BETTER. You deserve FAR BETTER.

    That’s all I have to say. I been there done that, ain’t doing it again and don’t recommend it to anyone!

    You rock, he picked you for that reason so he could suck it out of you for his own benefit and then leave you by the curbside like roadkill. He adds nothing to your life and only takes.

    Get a giver!!! You deserve it.


    • Yes, on that last point, my ex used to tell me how much he admired and liked my honesty. Well now i know why :/

      • Amen to that! (Or is it A-meh-n?)
        I did the rollercoaster routine for about 20 mos with xbf when it shouldve ended promptly at 6 mos. One of his go-to lines was what a good impact I’ve had on his life and how he always wants my input on everything, be it work, family, home, money, whatever. How much he values and respects my opinion. EXCEPT, apparently , when it came to our relationship. Things like the need for transparency & boundaries with his female ‘friends’….he valued that about as much as a rat turd.

        Oh & Lori, I was the trophy too. Not that I’m some hot catch, but I was the one he could take to all the family stuff & put an end to all the jokes about his loser parade. He really shut them up, eh? Especially when I stuck around more than a month.
        But really, the key thing about that is the family intros. I agree with the other comments about being kept from your boyfriends family. I have yet to see that mind of separation that didnt involve another woman/cheating.

          • Well shit. I posted my comment before reading all the updates. I’m SO SORRY, Lori. This same exact thing happened to a friend of mine recently. Other than a foreign country, it all played out the same way.
            If there’s any good to take away from this, itxs the knowledge that your cheater is following in the very well-worn footsteps of other dirtbag cheaters, and his future is completely predictable. There’s nothing new or different or special about him.
            Stay strong & stay AWAY! Come HERE when you feel like making contact. Refresh & immerse in the wealth of our collective Chumpdom. It’s like Spinach for Popeye, and you’ll find your strength.

  • Lori, I wonder if you are afraid to be alone? I feel this fear kept me in some really useless relationships, including my marriage to a man that hated me and failed miserably. I can assure you that trying to fix a six-month relationship with a liar will only keep you focused on someone not worthy of your love or time.

    I learned the hard way that being alone is far more preferable than being with someone who demonstrates time and time again that they just don’t like/love/respect/care about you.

  • Hi Lori:
    One more thing, don’t forget, he didn’t tell you about his cheating, you caught him! He made a unilateral decision about your life without you. It doesn’t stop.

    Take control of your life and dump this loser. He is a Loser, make it your mantra.

    I wish I had someone telling me this stuff so I wouldn’t have stayed the 10 months longer than I should have. I stayed, heard and saw the red flags, waited to see what would happen next and things just continued to get weirder and more horrible with time passing and I was the one who continually got hurt.

    Yes, he seemed to care and was loving in ways and I felt great at times blah blah blah. When you remove the spackle and get to the brass tax of the shit he says and does without telling you. That’s the TRUTH! It’s not good news.


    Sorry to post twice but I feel I have to beat it in to you to see as I wish someone had done for me when I was going through it.

    Once I saw the cheating in an open tab on his computer for a Craigs List casual encounter ad, it was over 2 days later. I left.

    You had your D Day, learn and go.

    Again, xoxo Deb

  • Lori,

    I can’t add more to this than what has already been posted. However, I can say that a man who cheats on you is not a good catch. Instead, he’s a lifetime of suffering. Nobody that cheats on you truly loves you. It sucks but it’s the truth. You deserve better than this idiot.

    My STBX was a dick when we were dating. He rarely paid for dinner, let me know when I could see him, broke up with me one night after flirting with my friend (DUH!) and a bunch of other red flags that I was simply too young, inexperienced and naive to see through. I loved him because I believed in him and that he was a great guy. (Spackle much?) Now, 20 years later he cheated on me (how many times I’ll never know) and he’s a big pain in the ass. We share a child so I’ll never be truly rid of him.

    Trust me, cut your losses. There are REALLY decent people out there who will treat you right. It’s not normal to cheat. It’s never ok. He’s shown you who he is, believe him. Walk away and don’t look back.

  • Hello LW,
    By your account the guy told you he loved you after only a month…so okay that’s a red flag, sometimes it’s not… But your chronology says he told you he loved you one month in while he was in Vegas fucking another woman…there are red flags and then there are waving red light sabers wielded by Darth Vader and you are like Luke Skywalker making excuses. Read this Captain Awkward post please:

    ” I have never felt unconditional love from someone before him. There was always an condition. With him (the cheater), I could be myself completely and he accepted me. ” Oh yeah, I remember this feeling, not only does he listen to you, he loves everything about you, and also magically, he has had similar experiences, he totally is ok and accepting of you, he even encourages you to share your secrets, your vulnerabilities and is so understanding. Then after you are totally committed he will use those against you. He says women should be empowered and own their sexuality so you share some history, in a few years that makes you a slut in his eyes.

    And then the apology he gave followed by the excuse that it was so hard to resist because “they shared similar backgrounds… (it was as if he had found the female version of himself). That is clearly testing your boundaries, will you forgive his “weakness”? If yes, he’ll keep you around and he will keeping fucking around on you and one day you’ll wake up and half your life was spent with an asshole. Wake up today, you are worthy of respect and honesty from everyone, you deserve to be with someone you can trust to keep you safe. Kick this one to the curb.

    • Oh yes, telling her he loves her while he’s actively courting another woman? The take away on that is that he is a REALLY GOOD liar. No surprise there, as everyone on this site is well aware of what good liars they are.

      They’ll tell you whatever they think you want to hear, then they’ll do whatever the hell they please.

    • “he totally is ok and accepting of you, he even encourages you to share your secrets, your vulnerabilities and is so understanding. Then after you are totally committed he will use those against you. ”

      Change the pronoun and that’s my wife courting me at one of the most vulnerable times in my life. Run away, Lori!

  • Hi again Lori:
    I can tell you about the future without him as well.

    In my situation, I believe I took him by surprise and he didn’t have a set backup in place it took him all of 3 weeks to find his next sucker (chump). He is still with her. I know for a fact he has not changed as he wouldn’t leave me alone for the first 6 months after I left him and 3 months into his new relationship, he told me he was seeing this next chump and that she really liked him. Never said he really liked her. Just further proof of the kind of asshole I was with and that I know you are with.

    This woman he is with now, has her own business seems successful, is not attractive at all but neither was he, they actually make a far better physical match than he and I did. I am quite sure she spends her time catering to making him happy so he stays.

    I am so grateful to her as it keeps him away from me. I have blocked him and never communicating with him after I left him but he was relentless in contacting me directly and through my friends. It was bad for the first 6 months but when I stopped replying completely, he stopped and I healed.

    No Contact really is the only way to get on with your life and to be happy again.

    Just wanted to give you a piece of what the future looked like so you know you will not be missing anything but incredible pain and heartache over nothing but a pathetic loser.

    Mine didn’t care about his First Wife, his 2 kids (one of which, his son has completely cut him out of his life) his other kid, a daughter has no respect for him. His ex can’t stand him and remarried, his girlfriends before me all broke it off with him. His wife left him. See the pattern, they never leave, you have to kick them to the curb.

    Ok, now I am really done. : )

    • Deb, I’m glad you posted several times because we all need to let Lori know we mean serious business. Saving her from a lifetime of grief and heartache is serious business. We have one life to live and I know I have wasted way too much time with a cheater. I had the choice to leave sooner and I didn’t. I hope Lori internalizes it that while it may hurt like hell to leave now, at least she will be spared a lifetime of hell.

      • That is what it boils down to. Leave now and deal with the sadness of the 6 months of memories you two have shared so far. Or be faced with all of this again in 5 years and deal with the sadness of 5 YEARS of memories you two have shared. And possible a home or children or pets or or or… The more time you invest in a shaky relationship, the tougher it will be to leave. This is exactly why he wants you to stay. He knows this. The deeper he can make you bond with him, and the further you can be dragged from your true values – the higher his chances of continued cake!

    • Deborah, thank you. I wanted to personally respond to you. Your comments really sunk in. I was in the state of…”yeah, he made a mistake, didn’t know what he wanted, then figured out he messed up… So, I’m gonna forgive him” I now know that was a pipe dream. The level of his deceit is astronomical. there is way more to this story then I have written about… I think that I always assume that people are trying to be the best version of themselves. After reading all of the comments, I did some more digging and found out that he is still lying to me. I plan on ending it tonight when he gets home from work.

      I cannot thank you enough for slapping me with some real, because I have been in a fog of the the not so real. I now see myself as that stupid girl. And, I don’t want to be that girl anymore.

      • Dear Lori,
        Thank you. You made me feel that the hell I went through has a purpose beyond myself. I am grateful that my bad experience may have helped you.

        Just hold on and stay strong cause once you end it, the road gets rocky.

        For 3 months I was in hell. Had PTSD, went to my gyno immediately for every STD test. Thankfully didn’t have any but fantasized while I waited for the results that if I did get one from him I was going to choke him to death at his office in front of his staff. Went to therapy for 3 months.

        I can tell you that once I saw that ad from Craig’s list on his computer my mind went into Locked Mode of ” I am out of here”and never want this guy to even breathe near me again let alone touch me. He actually tried to deny that anything had happened and said he was “just looking”, I quickly shot that theory down. I left and dealt with the emotional fallout after. It worked for me and I protected myself. I immediately went home and blocked him on facebook and that of course started a whole whirlwind of emails, texts, phone calls. I am telling you from experience, don’t respond, shut the door, throw away the key. It will be tough but absolutely no good comes from contact.

        I saw what he truly was after I left, saw tears turn on and then when I didn’t react he instantly smiled and changed the subject. It was a complete freak show. This happened at a dinner I called for 3 months out. My warped thinking was that since he kept contacting my friends and business customers to make sure I was ok (of course he really didn’t care about me but I think was testing the waters to see what I was telling people, he was scared of his own rep, lol), I was going to see him in person so he could see I was fine without him and then he could leave me alone.

        On one hand I was glad I had that dinner as I saw him for the manipulative, evil, lying cheating fucker he was with no rosy glasses on. On the other hand, that dinner set me back another 3 months in my healing as I went into a deep dark place realizing that he and other people out there are actually without a soul and use people only for their benefit. Including their own flesh and blood, specifically children. This was beyond my comprehension and experience prior to meeting him.

        Keep in mind, I too when I was in the relationship with him, felt so comfortable safe and warm. Well that changed greatly fairly early on in the relationship and it was a fairly shortlived relationship of only 10 months.

        I saw what he really was in the end and it was frightening to me but I learned and saw that he never had my back, never was loyal, was none of things he first presented himself to be and who I thought he was. The mask came off and there is was an empty sack of shit there.

        I will never forget this experience.

        Now, a man must first earn my respect by showing me respect and his words MUST MATCH HIS ACTIONS over time. If ever I have to rationalize or wonder why something a guy does may not feel right or make sense and I get a funny feeling in the pit of my stomach. I am gone and not sticking around to find out why.

        As you can see, it’s now 1 and 1/2 years out from that hell. I used to read here daily and now just check in monthly to stay sharp with my newfound skills. This place was a lifesaver for me and the only place that said what I felt, it connected with me strongly on every level in every fiber of my being as I knew all that was said here was the truth.

        I have since moved way the hell on, started my own business and finally am happy again and confident that the next man I start to date on a regular basis will be nothing less than a worthy and good man. In the meantime, I am building the life I want for myself. It feels great!

        Good Luck Lori and if I can be of any further help to you, I am here and rooting for you.

        Keep in mind how lucky you are that made this decision early on. You saved yourself, be very proud of that and use it to make your life a whole lot better as I promise you it will be once you cut that piece of shit cancer out of it. : )

        Sending you love, strength and lots of Happiness!!! – Deb

    • In Jackass’s two marriages, the ex-wives had to leave him. He was very vague about Wife 1’s reasons for leaving, but I am confident that he was picking fights, gaslighting, blameshifting, and diminishing her, as the conflict started as they left the wedding reception. In my case, he wasn’t tied legally and found himself a free place to stay 5 minutes from Schmoopie Who Workships Him so he could leave on his own. But he kept me tied because he wouldn’t admit he was breaking things off. He just needed time. With his married MOW. So even when they leave, they try to “stay” to keep you on the string.

  • Lori? On the chance that you don’t believe any of us (RUN! You got the luckiest escape), I seriously, seriously advise that you ring his ex-wife/ex-partner/mother of his son,

    and get her version of why they broke up. And what he is like paying child support, and how often he sees his child. 3 different things, 3 sets of actions in 3 arenas dealing with how he cares and puts his money where his mouth is about other people he is SUPPOSED to care about.

    Run. You got a lucky, lucky escape. You are just a thing to him that is convenient right now. Learn to spot them and never fall for one again. You have your beautiful life ahead of you! You haven’t bred with this fucktard, you haven’t mixed your assets, your future (and nice people in it) is still your own. Its GOOD, Lori.

  • On an entirely different note… I meet with my STBX in 1 hour. I am feeling very nervous… please send me good thoughts for strength and for careful choice of words so that I can accomplish the goals I need for me kids and myself without inflaming him. Thank you!

        • Well, I met with him. In the beginning, he was on edge, one false move would have set off a VAST rage episode… but I know if I can keep talking, not step into his negativity and rage, not take the bait, stroke his ego, I can generally keep things moving. That is what I did… in the end we made a lot of progress. We wrote up a bunch of mathematical equations on how the money is going to flow (he is a mathematician, people not his strong suit.) He told me about how he has taken up with the former OW. I knew he was with her. He says that she relaxes him. She has a high school diploma. He has two master’s degrees and a PhD. He also told me that he has told my kids about her and about the affair. I am now repeating my Chumpnation matra, I trust he SUCKS. I trust he SUCKS. I have to keep my eyes on the prize, getting enough money out of him to retire comfortably. I trust he SUCKS. She has no idea of what is coming. I trust he SUCKS. She is going to get hers… I trust he SUCKs. Our couples counselor said that he will never change… but there is just the tiniest part of me that thinks, perhaps he doesn’t SUCK with her. They see each other perhaps once or twice a month… she is just getting the sparkles and trust me, he is not a sparkley person at all, just you wait…just you wait… it is coming as sure as sun rises and sets every day. I trust he SUCKS. I need to keep my mind on this. He has all of the FOO issues.I trust he SUCKS. Cluster B Fucker. I trust he SUCKS. In 32 years no amount of kindness or help or compassion has ever changed him. So intellectually I know he SUCKS. Emotionally, I have been run over by a truck… no ringing to day, perhaps just a ding. Thank you Chump Nation for the kind thoughts.

          • Ugh. Sounds like dealing with him is not so much a drain as a sewer…..

            But you did it!!!! You will get there! He SUCKS. You don’t.

            Big hugs.


          • She relaxes him! LOL! Yes, his eyes disappear into the back of his head and he rolls over and, ahem, relaxes, because you know there’s no such thing as pillow talk between a mathematician PhD and a high school grad.

            Another fine couple with only their genitals in common. Yes, he SUCKS.

            • Another fine couple with only their genitals in common. Yes, he SUCKS…. LOL Thank you for making me smile.

    • ARRRRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!! Of all the crappy things I’ve read about partners doing to the person who loved them on this site, this is the first one that made me silently yell profanity at him. What a jackass! He doesn’t just suck, he sucks sour monkey balls!!
      For you to ask for support so that he doesn’t get enraged and yell at you for watching out for your children’s needs? May he roast on the hottest spit in hell’s kitchen!
      Here’s hoping he honors the commitment that he made on paper. My guess? Good luck with that! Get it to the lawyer before the ink dries.

      He doesn’t sparkle. And even in the remote chance that he doesn’t suck with her, who cares? What does it matter? In order to experience the theoretical (and improbable) not-sucking with her, you’d have to be her. And really, limbo aside, how low would you want to go?

      You deserve a year’s NC vacation for what you went through. Salute!

      • He swears he is moving to be with her… fingers crossed he does it the day after my youngest graduates from college. Then it is NC forever baby… or at least only once a year when we have to reconcile tax matters. Thank you Chump Nation. Thank you for your support.

  • Lori, make a bullet point list of the top 10 qualities you need/want from your ideal relationship. Not while thinking of him or anyone in particular, just the top qualities in general.

    If loyalty, honesty, integrity, etc. are anywhere on your list, this man and others like him will not ever meet your needs. People cannot learn honesty or integrity or how to be more loyal. People have those qualities – or they do not. The guy you’ve been dating does not have them. Save yourself for a relationship that you can thrive in while building. This one will distract you with drama and tears and insecurity, while slowly disintegrating your true needs/wants. It happens so slowly that you won’t feel it happening.

    You’ve already felt an urge to be relationship police (that first email). You’re really going to feel awesome and secure when he’s traveling out of town for work? Are you ever going to feel trusting when you hear him on his phone, or will you be trying to figure out who he’s talking with? If you do end up long term and living together, will you be throwing receipts of his directly into the trash because you can trust him completely, or will you have a gnawing urge to take a glance just to make sure it’s all legit?

    These are not little things. These distracting thoughts WILL destroy the best parts of you over time. Ask me how I know!

    • Amen. As CL always says, these cheaters do not get a character transplant overnight. My counselor told me that she has successfully treated only ONE narcissist in her 30-year career. Those who even bother to seek help bail when the going gets rough.

      • Yes. When you have to explain decent, kind behaviour? Bail then. You should NOT have to explain decency to another human being.

        We really need to teach this stuff to young girls.

        • Agreed! I just told myself my ex wasn’t good understanding personal dynamics and what might be offensive to someone because he was more technically minded. Sigh.

  • Just because a person feels remorse doesn’t mean they will change their behavior. My husband was very remorseful every time I caught him cheating, and when ex-girlfriends caught him cheating. But it turns out that the thrill of an affair and kibbles outweighed the remorse and guilt. Every. Time. Be glad he feels remorseful, but don’t convince yourself that it indicates a better outcome in the future.

    • Free Vixen, mine was the same. Truly remorseful … until he wasn’t. He couldn’t sustain his being sorry. His final attempt for reconciliation was months after the divorce was final. Very remorseful (I’m surprised he didn’t hire a violinist for full effect) and when I said no, he went back to the OW. As a matter of fact, he didn’t leave the OW. He wanted to see if he could have cake. It was pretty pathetic.

      • They’re so selfish. Mine actually yelled “Well, guess you just want me to be alone then!” when he finally was made aware that I’d contacted her and the game was over for them.

  • I’m in advertising. I’m also the daughter of an abusive father and the survivor of a lonely marriage and a devastating divorce, in which my ex-husband — who was not in advertising — carried on a 15 month affair with another woman during which he aligned all our friends against me and then left me days before a major holiday.

    Thanks for making me feel so safe and respected here.

    I think I’m done with this site, which is a shame, because it’s been a safe place for me.

    Guess I’ll just go kill myself. That’s the advice at hand, right? To go kill myself because I worked my ass off at a hard job to pay off the $20k+ of debt I was left in? To kill myself even though I do pro-bono work for artists. To kill myself even though I refuse to work on alcohol or cigarettes?

    I feel like I just got victimized all over again.

    • Jeez, it’s a joke. From arguably the greatest stand-up comedian that ever lived. Taking personally a joke about an entire industry by a famously foul-mouthed man who died many years ago is kind of overly dramatic, don’t you think?

      I’m a lawyer. You think I don’t hear lawyer jokes? Shakespeare wrote, “The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers.” Should I melt down over that and refuse to read English literature?

      This is not a gentle site. If you are easily offended, you shouldn’t be here. There are plenty of gentle (and not terribly helpful) sites on the Net where folks will be happy to commiserate with you about how you’ve been “victimized” and never say anything harsh or off-color. If instead you want support that is truthful and practical and rife with gallows humor, you should stick around. I believe you will find that no one here wishes you anything but the best.

      • What you have said here was dismissive, and diminishing, and purposefully so. In fact, it sounds quite a lot like what any emotionally manipulative narcissist would say in the face of an honestly expressed emotional response.

    • Persephone, I should’ve added that there may be some marketing chumps out there. Chumps and cheaters come in all flavors. I simply couldn’t resist linking a Bill Hicks comedy routine on marketing. It certainly wasn’t meant as a literal directive to kill yourself.

      Hicks is viciously lampooning consumerist society — finding a “market” for everything. I was being snarky about Lori’s cheater being in marketing, and being a salesperson — a guy who knows how to fake ingratiate. It’s a skill set.

      For the record, I’ve worked in marketing. I’ve done copy writing. Maybe Bill Hicks wishes me dead. Whatever, I still find him funny.

      Take what you need and leave the rest. Sorry if my linking to Bill Hicks and this post triggered you.

      • Thank you for the response. My sense of humor tends to run very dark, usually, but that clip in context here brought up some old business for me on a number of levels, and it caught me off guard. I’m a tremendous fan of yours, have bought numerous copies of your book and given them away to friends, I even reviewed it on Amazon, which is something I never do. I believe in the work you do, and reading here has brought a new clarity to the way I think about all my relationships, past and present, romantic and otherwise. I think I probably need to take a little breather from this community, but I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

        • It’s your choice, Persephone. You’re very welcome to stay.

          If you have a dark sense of humor, consider. You’ve done marketing, I’ve done marketing, and we’re still alive. Bill Hicks is dead.

          • Ha! I guess the devil loves his own. As always, this has given me a lot to think about. I am truly grateful for this site and everything it continues to teach me.

    • Persephone,

      I did not even watch the whole clip as such “humor” is not my thing. Sorry to hear how it triggered pain in you. From the context of the post, I am sure that was not the intention. You could easily substitute your cheater’s profession in the slot for “marketing.” No profession seems to have a monopoly on the cheater market, sadly (then we could avoid such people much more easily). As a community, my sense is that we are not interested in hurting other chumps. As Nomar wrote, “I believe you will find that no one here wishes you anything but the best.” I agree and hope you stick around not letting this to drive you away.


        • Doesn’t bother me one bit. If the shoe doesn’t fit…

          Besides, it annoys me to see such fakes and hypocrites arrogantly claiming Jesus’ name.

        • Persephone, here is another one who was in so much pain I wanted to end it all.
          But now? I see a lot of the pain came from abuse. And then, a lot of the pain came from someone who himself is in pain, and has absolutely no inner world or skills to deal with ANY of it.
          So I have gone from being suicidal, to actually compassionate about my ex. Without having ANY desire to subject myself to his sh* ever again.
          One day at a time, P, one day at a time. Don’t let another person define you. Blessed are they that mourn (I get that, now, it isn’t a victim statement). One thing that has really helped me, is al anon 12 steps. He does drink too much, but the fact that he is a narcissist has hurt me way more. So I just substitute ‘narcissist’ every time the literature reads ‘alcoholic’. It remains deeply valid and has changed my perspective so drastically that I now do feel peace. I cannot recommend it enough. This stuff is about GRIEF and deep pain. We got your back, P, and if you go to any 12 steps programme, they do too.

  • I have read everyone’s comments at least 2 times over, with tears in my eyes.

    Thank you so much for the strength that you are sharing and the truth. The truth I needed to hear and your personal truths.

    And, the verbal bitch slapping that I needed. Thank you.

    One of the commenters asked the question regarding how I feel when he leaves for business trips or gets a phone call… You know exactly how I feel, I am riddled with anxiety and questions…. That is not the way to live.

    Thank you so much for your kind yet strong words and the swift kick in the ass that I needed. I’m going to be honest, this is going to be difficult. But, I know what I have to do.


    • Lori, it’s difficult now but as CL says and those of us in meh know, the pain is FINITE. I wish there were a short-cut to growth but you have to go through the pain. Just think of it this way: where do you want to be in January 2015? If you leave, you will be looking back and eternally grateful you dodged a bullet. And you are wiser. If you don’t, you’ll probably be going through his emails and phone, and utterly miserable. You have to go through the pain no matter what. You get to decide how much pain and suffering you want. You can do this, Lori, you really can. Leave now. An awesome, healthy life awaits you if you do.

      • Yes, Lori, I stayed in a relationship for 28 years waiting for a man to recognize and acknowledge my worth in his life. Never happened, and my marriage was painful. All of my life’s best moments are memories that are slightly bittersweet. My wedding day, each day I gave birth, over years the same experience was repeated over and over again. Daily life and its celebrations, holidays, and special times always played a backseat to my ex’s lie. He was absent in ways that mattered. You deserve better. So hold out for a nice guy. There will be very little drama then.

    • Great Lori, that’s great you are doing mighty stand.

      There IS a guy out there that thinks like you do. He is loving, responsible, faithful and has the same wants and desires in a relationship that you do. And guess what, you will never have to rationalize bad behavior from him. You know why, Lori? Because he truly is: “a good guy”.

  • Persephone, Cheaters come in all flavors (think Equal Opportunity guidelines). Remember while I may paint my ex in very unfavorable terms I do not lump all Asian, conservative, racquetball playing, male peace officers into one group of Evil People. I just sound off on one. I don’t take any of these comments personally (I’m a teacher, and know many coworkers who cheat. :/) as we each have very complicated lives and stories to tell. I don’t judge because I don’t know entire stories. I do judge those who cheat in committed relationships. I just know when a person makes the decision to cheat on their spouse that it is a small, but telling, part of who they are and often is the “tip of the iceberg.” I sense people here want clarity. Authenticity. A love that matters. We are good people, wide open, life long learners and have been through hell. You are too and you are valued here. Don’t allow gross generalizations to impact your beautiful day.

    • In all candor, I seriously contemplated suicide after my marriage ended. And part of the dynamic I had with my XH was that I subsidized his dreams and abandoned mine to support us. Coming here, a place where I have felt safe and where I have learned so much, to find a video instructing me to kill myself based on my profession, was jarring and deeply unsettling. We all have our triggers. This is one of mine. Thank you for your words.

      • Persephone, It is a process, healing, and Life does throw us curves. I did not watch the video but realized you had triggered. I too gave up a huge part of myself and what I wanted to support my ex’s dreams (professional and personal). I postponed college and moved our family when his job required us to. My best choice though was to prioritize raising our children and I am most proud of that (my children will be my legacy to this world). I am, like many here, in my late 40’s and am free for the first time in my life to do whatever it is I want. My income and debt are overwhelming but I try to focus on moving forward. Scary but “Baby Steps” forward. I know I was wasted in my marriage and I have gifts for this world that no one else shares. I suspect you do too.

        • You are extremely kind. Thank you for your honesty. What I find amazing is that my first marriage ended in 1998, I am remarried to a good man who has never given me cause for doubt or worry, who has stood by me, who lets me love him without fear, who is a beautiful father to our daughter…and I STILL get triggered by certain words in certain contexts. It never really ends, and I guess that’s part of my grief as well. In any case, I wish you such happiness, and I hope you do everything you want.

          • I think sometimes, the wounds heal, but the scar is still there and triggers can reinflame it even years out of the trauma. My therapist told me that PTSD never goes away 100%, but does become easier over time. Triggers can bring the trauma back out into the open, however.

            I’m sorry you felt triggered by something here, and wish you peace.

      • I hope you re-think your position. The problem with “triggers” is that they hit the wounds that haven’t healed, and often the ones that have been hit over and over by significant people in our lives. I am sorry that a link on one post “hit” a wounded place in you. But the difference between what happens hear and what happened, perhaps, in your “real life” is that when someone hurts you here, it’s not on purpose. I didn’t look at the link (I often skip those, being more interested in the people on this site and their viewpoints), but I understood it was part of a comedy routine, and therefore it is not surprising that some people find part of it offensive, as that is sort of the mission of comedy.

        I am speaking here as someone diagnosed with PTSD and therefore highly experienced with “triggers” and dealing with them. Some triggers are easy to avoid, like staying away from the X’s FB page. Others catch you unawares. But like all other emotional debris from infidelity, the only way out is through. Perhaps this trigger and others that might come along that are not, really, directed at you, might actually help you heal if you process the emotions and dig down into the real stuff under the nominal trigger. I’m not a therapist, but a very, very good one once told me what became a key to emotional healing: “When you get triggered, notice if the reaction is bigger than the stimulus. If it is, then the real problem is something underneath that you need to work on.” Good luck. Hope you don’t give up on us.

      • Persephone — I contemplated suicide more than once after my wife told me about her cheating. And I’ve felt triggered here — luckily not by a any reference to suicide — since I chose to stay, I won’t mention the specifics, but I felt greatly diminished and devalued by a particular line of conversation. I hope you’re feeling better now, and I hope you choose to stay, after a break or not.

  • As you realize more and more what you have been spared from, the pain of getting free will pale in comparison to what would become your future with that scum cheater.

    Now you have the opportunity to meet wonderful people that will enrich your life.

    Just remember there is a difference between nice and good. Nice can be a mask to get what they want. Goodness is an inside job, it desires the well being of others and finds ways to benefit them.

    • “Just remember there is a difference between nice and good. Nice can be a mask to get what they want. Goodness is an inside job, it desires the well being of others and finds ways to benefit them.”

      Ann, this gave me pause. Thank you for these words. One thing that has always been a puzzler for me is that my ex is so “nice.” You just solved the puzzle for me — his niceness is a mask to get the attention and accolades he needs. But on the inside, he has no goodness at all.

      • Oh, there is a whole post with many, many comments on nice vs. kind. This is a key distinction in fixing our pickers.

  • Breakups are rarely a clean break. He will be trying very hard to convince you that he is worthy of you. Because you still have feelings for him, you may question yourself. Don’t listen to his words anymore. He has already shown you who he is. You know everything you need to know already. He may even use his sexuality to keep you. I have to admit that when my stbx would come over after I had him leave the house (we have kids) , he would try to lean into me and I still felt that “sexual energy” between us. Yes, it will still be there initially and will fade with NO CONTACT, but it doesn’t go away right away. Be aware and don’t play that game. He doesn’t love you or deserve you. Keep saying it to yourself and convince yourself of it REGARDLESS of what he says and does. When I say NO CONTACT, it means just that. Change your phone number, don’t give him any information of what you are doing and who you are with. Do not treat him as a “friend”. He will use that as a way in. Liars and manipulators are evil. Your best interests are not in their thoughts. They care only of themselves. It took 8 years of marriage for my stbx husband’s mask to fall completely off. I see everything for what it is now. Before the mask fell off, I thought he was generous, giving, thoughtful, loving, dependable, and trustworthy. He hid so well all these years because he reflected off of me. He acted as I did on the outside, but had selfish and evil motives on the inside. Best of luck to you!

  • “I want to believe I’m a Celtic warrior princess. Oh hang on, I’m a middle-aged woman living in bum fuck Texas.”

    Oh hahahah, thanks CL.

    And Lori, RUN like the wind!

  • Good on you for reading and replying.

    Here’s what it comes down to:
    Staying with him will be hard.
    Breaking up with him will be hard.
    Pick your hard.

  • Lori; You think it is hard to get out of now….it will become more & more painful to pull yourself away. You will save yourself a lot of damage which can take YEARS to work through. NARCS will use your best qualities of honesty, trust & integrity against you, please do not allow this!

  • Thank you, all of you. For your strength and for sharing your hurts with me. It is very difficult to reconcile that someone is capable of this much deception. My heart physically hurts, and I feel so stupid. Why would someone do something like this, why do this to another human.

    • Don’t try to untangle the skein of fuckedupness, Lori. Get out ASAP. Educate yourself on cluster B, narcissists, sociopaths, whatever. And it really doesn’t matter because mine fits into a little of each category. All I know is that I didn’t make it that way and I can’t fix it. It’s generally just fucked up and it feels exhilarating to get far away from it!

    • Why would someone do something like this, why do this to another human.

      “O, that way madness lies; let me shun that;
      No more of that.”

      Heard a TEDtalk the other day wherein a cancer research said that he gave a presentation to other cancer docs, in which he said, “It’s time for us to stop trying to understand cancer, and start controlling it.” For that, he was booed and hissed.
      I had to stop the talk, and re-wind, and listen, because I realized it applied to all kinds of toxic states, not just the medical ones.
      On this site, it’s called, untangling the skein of fuckupedness. You want what he did to make sense. It doesn’t. Next?

      Sometimes we want what others do to hurt us to make sense so badly that we assume it’s something we did. Because then we can control things. It’s not just the randomness of the universe that smacked us.

      In his case, the answer to the question of why was probably, “Eh, why not?” Couldn’t come up with a good enough reason. Certainly not you and the relationship he had with you. So he went for it.

      Weep the night away, and arise in the morning ready to begin your life. If you need us to check back in with you tonight, just ask. Someone in the Nation will surely be awake. But consider first whether he’s really worth losing any sleep over . . .

    • The answer to that question is: Because he doesnt really love you.

      i have been struggling with this since January. when i kicked my XH (husband then) out because he didnt come home AGAIN but this time on new years eve. fucker didnt even want to bring in the new year with me. All his action since then have me so confused. he is NOTHING at all like the man i knew and loved. he is a complete stranger. mean cruel hateful petty and of course everything is all my fault. and i sit here crying. and trying to figure out what the fuck just happened. and why is he doing this and how can he just turn his back on us, his loving wife and the children he said he wanted so badly. we havent seen or heard from him since fathers day (well, i did get a phone call on 4th of july but we were at a wedding so he didnt get to see the boys,, and i made a couple of attempts since then but no contact since july for me, for boys it has been since fathers day) and i keep saying HOW CAN HE DO THIS. how can we mean nothing. doesnt he miss us. doesnt he think of us. and the answer is apparently not. he has moved on with his life. his wife and kids are nothing to him. i was with this asshole for 14 years 12.5 married. i stood by his side thru 4 dwi, multiple arrests, all sorts of fuck up (he would also say i mess things up), jail time in 2010 for a dear john bust (yep, he tried to pick up a police posing as a prostitute in another town on valentines day) and god so much more. gaslighting, stone walling, lying about stupid little things, deflecting and lying about BIG things, lying about everything, cheating (4x that i know of, but of course he never cheated while we were together, only when we were separated. and of course he would push me away, and do shit so that i kicked him out so we could separate) always the victim. so much more….. but you get my point. i stood by this guy, thru better or worse, thru thick and thin, thru good times and the bad times. but he could just walk away and FORGET like we didnt even happen. dont get me wrong. i made mistakes too but nothing compared to his PLUS i truly tried to make our marriage work and he would rather walk out. choice drugs to forget even more and live with a disrespectful hood rat oohmpa loompa chewbacca looking married woman. he chooses her over me, and his boys. i never thought he would do this, act like this. leave his kids. forget and dismiss me.

      dont worry so much about the why. they are fucked up. they dont think like we do. they inter up love in a way we can not understand. i know my husband now XH loved me the way he could…up until he didnt. wipe his hands of the dust and walks off.

      the why. the how. Doesnt. Matter. just know that it is NOT the way you want to live. it is NOT the why or the how you live your life.

  • “He cheated on you WEEKS after knowing you. FUCK him. Kick this guy to the curb and go no contact. ”

    I love this shit. I just want to dump this advice over my head and take a shower in it.

    I had a nearly identical situation. What did I do? I went and had two children with him. I love my kids. They are awesome. But I would really, really have liked to have given them a better dad.

    Get rid of him. It only gets worse. Thank your lucky stars you don’t have children yet.

    • “I love this shit. I just want to dump this advice over my head and take a shower in it.”

      This may be the best comment I have ever read on ChumpLady! Exactly how I feel every time I read here.

  • Oh, Lori, that is the question we all ask: “Why would someone do this to another human being?” And in the case of those of us with very long relationships, including marriage and shared parenthood, “Why would someone do this to the person they promised to love?” and “How could someone stop loving you on a dime?” It took me a long time to find an answer to that question, and it is really quite simple: these people don’t love as normal people do. The narcissists aren’t capable. They are–in the word of a close friend–actors. Con artists. They know how to act the part of courting you and “falling in love.” They know how to make their marks believe, buy in, invest. The goal of all of this behavior is to get you to reflect back their specialness, their sparkly false selves, their superiority. So in that sense, you are never really a person to a narcissist–you are just an animated mirror who can remember the narcissist’s triumphs, great qualities, talents, as well as the injuries others cause him or her. To the extent that the narcissist cheater responds to your needs, it’s either to secure you or keep you as a source of ego kibbles (aka narcissistic supply) or to create an image as a good partner. Now, whatever is wrong with your cheating jackass, he most certainly ticks many of the boxes of narcissism (including interpersonal exploitation, highly entitled behavior, etc.).

    Here’s how you know you need to get away right now:
    1. If he wanted to date others, he could have just dated you and made it clear it you were both free to date others. Which takes us to…
    2. He wanted you to be exclusive while he was free to see others, aka cheat. So from the get-go he didn’t want reciprocity or an even playing fied.
    3. He not only cheats. He lies.
    4. He loves you but you haven’t met his family, including his son. He is not including you in his life.
    5. But he is willing to see you after his son goes to bed, aka “booty call” while he has custody. He has no respect for you.
    6. He has a messy life. He has business/ financial trouble. He gets in-between apartments, even though he has a child. You don’t want a guy who doesn’t have his shit together.
    7. Getting caught cheating didn’t change his behavior at all, other than the show of faux remorse.

    Any one of these should be a dealbreaker. Seven (and probably more)? No brainer.

    One last word: In today’s economy, it’s fairly common for people to struggle if they have a small business. But the fact that his business is failing should make you stop and do your homework. What’s his work history like? Has he had other business failures? Bankruptcy? Does he get along well with subordinates, clients, supervisors and co-workers? If he borrowed money for college or grad school, is he current with repayment? Does he pay child support or alimony? Is he current with support? Even very good people, psychologically and emotionally healthy, with lots of business talent, can struggle, get behind, go bankrupt. But what you want to look for are patterns of arrogant, entitled, behavior; patterns of starting up things (including businesses) with a grandiose plan and unrealistic expectations of others; patterns of using others for the basics of life (shelter, food, bills).

    That is why you can’t be in a hurry when you meet someone. The love-bombing is a way to bypass questions about things like business failure, problems holding jobs or getting alone with others at work, why prior relationships ended, finances, etc. I knew the cheater in my life for over 30 years, as a friend. I thought I “knew” these things about him. I believed his troubles were all due to other people: Ex-wives, his brothers, his co-workers, his bosses, his in-laws. There were lots of gaps in his stories but I gave him a pass on everything because I thought I “knew” him. A month in and he was cheating. He has showed you who he is.

    As for your “connection,” that’s what an actor or a con artist is expert in–creating the illusion of connection. Don’t talk to this guy again. Total no contact. And I am sorry you are hurting. Whether it’s 6 months or 6 years or 36 years, nothing hurts like betrayal. Follow Scott’s advice above: take 6 months or longer to build your own life on a healthy foundation. Love yourself, value yourself, and learn to live with your eyes wide open.

    • I meant that Lori’s cheater was “a month in” and cheating. The Jackass? Who knows? His preferred target is married and starting the affair as an emotional affair via text and phone. So he could have been chumping me a lot longer than I will ever know.

      • Hey Warrior Princess!

        So glad we now have 2 Warrior Princesses here at the Nation! (You and Tracy—Actually, reading the comments, I think there may be more!)

        Hope you are planning to keep your new ‘name’! Love it!

        To all…..I really benefited from this awesome exchange of love and thoughts, even though directed to Lori.

        That’s the beauty of this community. Thank you so much for letting me be a part of your healing journeys. And thank you for being such an amazing force in mine!

        Love all the precious people here…..

        Forge on, precious ones…ForgeOn!

  • Lori,
    you have been bombarded with a bunch of very good advice. Please take the time to listen to it. write it down, and really think about it. I completely agree with what everyone has said and have something else to add that hopefully will be of use to you.

    1. he tells you he loves you in a month while he is fucking some other chick who is a female version of himself….who the fuck does that?if i met a male version of myself, i dont think i would want to fuck him. it would be weird. and if i was fucking someone (even casually) i wouldnt turn around and tell someone else i loved them. ACTIONS!!! they dont match the words.

    2. you have been with him for 6 months, havent met his family, exwife or his children. BUT you are living with him!?!?! ok. its temporary (or was it?) while he was moving?? again, who the fuck does this!! doesnt he have ANYONE in his life willing to help him out ? how is it that he is moving from one place without having another place lined up. did he get kicked out?and why? and poor little thing didnt have anyone else to turn to and to help him out besides you? WOULD you do that? move out and move in with someone you just met? wouldnt you be MORE comfortable moving in with a relative? a high school friend? a coworker? why is it that he had nowhere else to go? i might be wrong be it seems like he forced your hand with some victim story.

    3. he did not tell you about the other woman from scotland even after he sapposedly ended it with her? i totally get being attracted to 2 different people while you are dating. but STILL he should have been honest with you from the get go. he should have NOT told you he loved you and should NOT have moved in with you if he was still playing the field. OF COURSE YOU THOUGHT it was exclusive. you thought you were the only one. well you found out that you ARE NOT!! AD that he was hiding, sneaky and lying about it for the entire time he was dating you, telling you he loved you and living with you. Call me crazy but those are NOT the actions of a honest, loyal, integrity OR love….

    4. he HAPPENED to leave his laptop open, on, AND logged into his email. huh, how convenient for you. Does anyone else think this is strange? He knew what was on his email. he knew he didnt delete his conversations with him AND he wasnt even trying to hide it? Ok….i can logically think that in a way HE WANTED you to know but is that how you want your life to be? He wasnt even MAN ENOUGH to come right out and tell you, apologize and then talk to you about it. He just LET YOU FIGURE IT out on your own. Let me tell you, i lived with one of those guys, and it suckes!! you THINK he loves you, you can talk to him and tell him anything (he is really agreeable or is he just afraid to contradict you?) But you need to understand….this was a BIG THING for your relationship. this was something he needed to OWN up to and then explain himself and actually have a conversation with you about. Is this how he will handle all relationship issues? if he gets a job in another town, he is going to discuss that with you, weigh the pros and cons? or will he just leave the proposal for you to find and then you bring it up to discuss? what about buying a house? having kids? are you just going to leave the pregnancy test out so he finds it and asks you if it is positive?

    BAD BAD KARMA there girl. i think he does like you. he likes your morals and values. he likes the way you act and the way you live. BUT i feel like he is testing you. he is seeing just how far he can push you. you find out about him fucking another girl (dont forget HE told you he loved you while he was doing her) and then he tells you he is sorry? he feels bad cuz he sees the pain in your eyes? He wasnt thinking about your pain when he was sticking his dick into her. Oh but NOW it bothers him that he hurt you. You are his rock.

    honey, if you are thinking you can change him. STOP!! he is trying to change you. he loves you but fucks another woman, lets you find out, lets you bring it to him, then says he is sorry. he messed up. he knows he messed up. he shouldnt have lied, manipulated you? those are all good qualities to have HOWEVER WHY DIDNT HE Have those qualities while he was fucking some other woman. he is trying to change your morals, if you accept this little thing, after all he is super sorry about it and he knows how wrong it is. So you accept it. And he will do it again and again. after all you allowed it before. you knew he was like that when you were dating.

    i understand connecting with him. but how much of that is true and honest connection? and how much of that is HIM manipulating you, your feelings, your thoughts? He is making himself seem like he is your true love, but would your true love fuck someone else behind your back while leading you to believe he is wonderful?

    you seem like a nice person. i feel your pain. i saw so much potential in my XH. I thought he was different even when he was showing me who he really was. we had 13 years of a good thing, yes we have issues (every marriage will) and got past all of that. and all of a sudden, he bails. walks out, turns his back, and forgets all about me and his children. during the month i was trying to save our marriage, he told me he loved me, but that he loved me enough to let me go because he just cant stop hurting me. WTF?!?!? if he loved me enough he wouldnt have been hurting me in the first place.

    you deserve better and should be with someone who loves you enough NOT to hurt you in the first place. not someone who doesnt think of you because he is getting his happy on AND then apologizes and feels super remorseful later. THAT alone should make you think he IS NOT the right guy for you.

    OH and FINALLY. once you leave him. he will do EVERYTHING to get you back. so be prepared. he will turn on the charm full speed, he will call you crying, he will be ever so sorry he hurt you and promises to never do it again (HE Should have thought of that BEFORE he did it) he will tell you that you are the best thing that ever happened to him and he cant go on without you. he might even tell you he is going to kill himself because he realizes how losing you hurts so bad (mine did that and i was so worried about him, i ran over to check on him, he ended up seducing me and crawled back home later). Dont fall for anything he is going to tell you, after all he was telling you he loved you while fucking someone else. you can not believe anything he tells you. AND he will be relentless pursuing you that you will start to think, “man this guy really does love me and want to be with me maybe i should give him another chance”

    DONT DO IT. GO NO CONTACT. get him out of your house. change your phone number (if you tell the phone company someone is stalking you they might change it for free) if he shows up at your house (with flowers probably) do not answer the door. act like you are not home. go into another room and phone a friend to get you thru it. it will be hard to let go, it will be harder when he is love bombing you.

    good luck, and please let us know what you decide and what happens.

      • Jackass NAILED IT.

        Why would he love you so much, when he is homeless through his own chaos and needed a place to stay? – That’s right, OW is in Scotland. A bit far to commute.

        Lori, this guy is a serious bad news user. He learned a long time ago that words manipulated people who were used to ‘normal’ behaviour where people MEAN what they say.

        Look at the actions. Look at the actions.

  • I also need to comment on the ‘connection’ thing. That’s just another word for ‘soulmate’, which is basically bullshit. You think out of the billions of people in the world there is only one you can connect with on a ‘soulmate’ level? Get real. This guy has sold you a bill of goods, how no one understands him and no one understands you the way you do each other. Swoon! It’s like the bestest rom-com ever made! You were destined for one another and if you just try hard enough you’ll Get Through These Difficult Times and it will be a Love Story For the Ages.

    Please do yourself a favour and get rid of these notions of super duper soul mates and connections. Be alone and then wait for someone who actually values you enough to not fuck other women.

  • Yes, you have to dump this guy. Cut all ties with him immediately. But that’s not all you need to do.

    You need to learn the difference between real love and fake love. That ‘unique connection’ you are so reluctant to let go of is simply the deadly trance of fake love. It’s a dangerous drug that will eat your life eventually. You need to develop the emotional skills and insight that will enable you to build a real love with a real person, instead of going down the long dark blind alley of fake love with a cheating phony.

    Until you learn these skills, you will waste time and sanity on one charming liar after another. Carefully consider getting a good therapist to help you. Your post here to CL shows you already have what it takes to recognize your mistakes and make some beneficial changes. Best of luck and blessings to you.

  • Lori- please please please walk away. Almost the exact same situation happened to me during the first year of my relationship with my soon to be ex husband. I chose to believe the best in him and forgive. We were in our early twenties. Fast forward 15 years-I am now 36, we were married with a 4 yr old and newborn baby when I found out he had cheated on me again. But here’s the kicker, it was with the same chick from that first cheating time! I was in such shock! We had been together 15 yrs, married for 7. Went to 4 marriage counselling sessions where I discovered he’d had multiple affair partners (3 that he admitted to) and would often kiss girls in bars while out with his friends. I found this blog one month after d-day right around the same time I asked for a separation. It’s now been 1 year since d-day and the kids and I are doing awesome. It was a complete and utter nightmare to go through and I am so sorry you are going through this too. But please do what I didn’t have the courage to do all those years ago. Leave him NOW. Don’t invest 15 years into him like I did. And as others have said : when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

  • My cheater ex-husband cheated after we were together 6 weeks – with a prostitute who gave him an std. He did not tell me for six months until he knew he was clear of hiv and syphllis. I should have run like the wind.

    Instead I accepted that it was immaturity (he was 22) and stayed. He cheated 6 years later and said he could not give me what I needed. (I should have believed him). He came back and promised a ring and everlasting fidelity. 15 years and two children later he is now living with the OW who he has a “connection” with after cheaping his way to a divorce settlement.

    Take it from me….run!!

  • “Go talk to the mother of his son” – as the son’s mother in a situation just like this, don’t. She’s heard from too many women like you already. She probably replied to the first 3 or 4 who found her on facebook, then stopped when they didn’t listen to her and instead told her ex what she said (get out now), and created more drama than was there already.
    Guys like this want that kind of drama. Just get out now.

  • Update:

    I emailed the OW and found out that he was actually engaged to her and she was going to move here from Scotland to be with him. I confronted him last night and he still continued to lie and manipulate. Saying he did not tell me everything because he did not want to continue to hurt me. I am in shock right now. I had no idea the level of his deception… the layers, the level of manipulation that he was capable of. The OW told me that she ended it because he was acting “weird”. He introduced her to his son, and I never met any of his family. I know now that I was blind and I feel pretty shitty and really stupid. I obviously have some inner searching and contemplation ahead of me. I feel sorry for the OW, she is devastated right now. But, I thought that after I ended it with him he would try to crawl back to her. He obviously felt more for her that he did for me…(the engagement and meeting his family) and I did not want her to hurt more in the future. She was going to move here from Scotland for this guy….WTF???

    I know that I am really going to need a support system, and I am in shock right now, and the full weight of the deception and betrayal hasn’t fully set in. And, I am really feeling alone right now too. So, I am asking for hard slaps in the head, some kindness, and all of your strength, and I don’t usually ask for help. Thank you, all of you for all of words of wisdom.

    Sincerely and from the bottom of my beat up heart,

    • Enough is enough! Had enough? I guarantee there is even more that you don’t know. Stop talking to him. I know it’s hard. Kick him out now. Right now! Don’t listen to any more. If his lips are moving, he’s lying. You will never know the entire truth. Layers? There are so many that it would take you years to figure it out. Listen to chump nation. No need to confront. Kick the trash to the curb. It’s garbage day.

    • Lori –

      I doubt any of us are surprised by this update. We have all been there. Join us and hold tight. We are all here for you. We are stronger than the liar, cheater, fakers. We know our own weakness in staying with and choosing these assholes and we are here to help you through the first phase of acknowledging the fucked up situation you have found yourself in. But fear not. Your have chosen a brighter future by throwing the lying, cheating SOB out. The most important part of your healing is:


      Put this in your head and repeat it every time you feel weak. Make it your mantra until “meh” sets in.

    • Lori, please do not feel stupid. He is a LYING TURD! The OW is stupid cause she knows what he is and is still buying, lol.

    • “He obviously felt more for her that he did for me…” NO. He doesn’t “feel” anything for either of you. It’s what he can get out of you, and the countless others he has done this or is doing this to. It’s all a sick game.

      His son is a pawn that he uses to make women think he’s closer to them than he is (my ex does this regularly). He probably didn’t introduce you to the son because he didn’t need to yet, he had you on the line without that piece. He was saving it for later, believe me.

      GET AWAY FROM THIS DBAG. Do NOT fall into the pick-me dance with Scotland. Women waste their lives this way. I wasted a decade. There are good guys out there, and you deserve one. If deep down you don’t think you do (and you’ll know because you’ll keep being drawn to this instable kind of relationship) find a good therapist.

      This video of Lena Dunham really hit home for me:

      Chin up. You are better than this.

    • First —
      Good for you! you made healthy decisions (end it) and those decisions were entirely vindicated!!

      NO hard slaps to the head from me. Now is the time to be extra gentle with yourself.

      The amazing scumminess of this cheating sod is not about you — or, I tend to think in these cases, it’s about you *in this way*: you acted with kindness, reliability, integrity, and generosity, and the predator focused on you *because* your behavior was consistent and had integrity. You are a trustworthy person. You are the person one ought to want to be. ALL GOOD.

      It’s going to hurt for a while (probably only months, actually: a blip in the scheme of a lifetime of relationships), but the trauma subsides, the wounds close, you can take action to titrate the pain and grow and heal and get stronger process, and not so far from now I bet you will mostly feel gratitude on several counts:

      1) the guy was truly scum — not just a weak, pathetic ‘wayward’ lost-in-the-forest, poor poor me type cheater, but an archetypal predator. No second guessing, no second chances. CLOSURE. You are lucky to be out of it, without children or the divorce industrial complex involved.

      2) you are a good person with a loving heart and the kind of integrity that can’t be purchased or rented or bartered for commercially. you are the real deal in what relationships are for. hold on to that, and take advantage of –>3)

      3) now that you’ve dodged that toxic cesspool, you have both incentive and the opportunity to pay close attention to other folks’ words/deeds continuums, and what you need to do to care for yourself as you explore new relationships.

      I want to return to a point made by ChumpLady as you are now going forward — the much-vaunted notion of unconditional love, at least as that term is used to mean unconditional acceptance of any behavior under any circumstances. If you feel truly unconditionally loved by a grownup romantic partner (in the sense of acceptance of any behavior under any circumstances), be suspicious of what you are looking for. And why. And if you feel unconditional love for a partner in the sense of having made unbreakable commitments to accept them and be available to them no matter what they do, check yourself — is it really true that you have no boundaries? no deal-breakers? Is that healthy for any adult?

      Peace to you! better days are coming!

    • Lori,
      My heart just breaks for you. I know your pain all too well because I’ve been there. My first marriage was right out if college to a man that turned abisive 6 months after our marriage. I had two kids with him in the 3 years we were married (I filed for divorce when I was pregnant with our 2nd child). I was at such a low point when I met my 2nd husband (the cheater). I bought the mindfuck from the first husband- “no one will ever want you. You can’t do better than me.” “When I lose my temper, it’s your fault because you know just what to do to make me so mad” “you can’t afford to live of your own” “I will take the kids from you. You’re a terrible mother” and so on. I felt 2 inches tall when my sparkly 2nd husband came alone and swept me off my feet. He told me he loved me very early on. He was infatuated with me. I felt like I was worth something again. I told him everything and he was SO living and accepting. I’d never felt unconditional love before. At least that’s what I thought it was. When we were dating, he always had obscure reason why he didn’t want to spend time around my children. He always wanted to wait to come over to the house until they were at their dads for visitation or they were already asleep at night. He was a firefighter so there were lots of times that he would be up in the middle of the night on calls and that didn’t seem odd to me. He also had to leave unexpectedly often and that didn’t seem weird to me either because of his job. I dated him for a year before discovering that I was pregnant. The baby wasn’t planned but of course I was accused of planning the pregnancy to trap him. When I told him I was pregnant, he was happy at first but it didn’t take long for his anger to surface. I never understood why this man who professed his undying love for me would be angry at me for an unplanned pregnancy that we were both equally responsible for. He treated me like crap for the duration of the pregnancy. He was hardly ever around. he would come over on the weekends that my kids were at their dads house and that was about all I ever saw of him during that time. After our daughter was born I wanted more help with the baby that what he was willing to offer. He kept her overnight one time during the first four months of her life. Whenever he did take her, he would often call me and complain that she was fussy and he couldn’t handle it and he wanted to drop her off. When our baby was four months, old his sister in law called me and told me she had discovered he was cheating on me. She Told me to leave him. She said he was just like his father and he would never change. She was right but I didn’t listen to her. He cried and begged and pleaded with me to forgive him. he insisted it was all a misunderstanding of the other woman was just his friend. I didn’t believe him that the other woman was just his friend but for the sake of our daughter, I chose to forgive him and (like a fool) I married him. At that point I felt like I owed it to her to try to make things work with her father. I didn’t want to be a single mom with three kids (see mindfuck from husband #1). Everything my first husband had said seem to be coming true. My first husband was the best that I could do. He was better than the second guy. Nobody would probably want me again. I fell for it all. I invested 10 years in that second marriage. I know for a fact my husband cheated on me at least four times, probably more but I don’t need to hear about it to know that I made the best choice by leaving.
      I really wish I had someone there to warn me 6 months in that he was no good. I love our daughter but she wasn’t born under ideal conditions. I wish I had her with someone else. Someone worthy of being her father. She is going to have to witness him use women for the rest of her life. And I am going to have the job of explaining to her why women deserve so much more than that but I won’t be able to explain his behavior to her.
      I noticed inconsistencies about four months into my relationship with him. And I wish I had gone with my gut instinct. I recall finding a stray text message on his phone that said ” I love you babe. I’ll call you when I get back from this call”. It was sent at 2 AM and it wasn’t sent to me. I confronted him about it and he told me that one of his coworkers had picked up his cell phone in the middle of the night at the fire station and used it to text his fiancé. I remember thinking that was weird because he would’ve had to type his fiancé’s phone number into my boyfriends phone. Her number should’ve been stored. I had that sick feeling in my gut when I found that text message and I didn’t want to believe that this man I had on a pedestal was capable of living a lie.
      I know how you felt when you read his email. That the words couldn’t be written to someone else. That there must be an exclamation for this. I can tell you with 100% confidence that he sucks. The part that stood out to me when I first read your letter was the lie he told you about only sleeping with her one time. I’ve heard that lie before too. I’m surprised he didn’t tell you he was drunk when it happened. I’ve heard THAT lie too.
      I wish I could make your emotional pain go away because I know how bad you are hurting. Just think about how shitty you feel and how much you hate feeling this way. Let that thought your reminder to you that he will absolutely do this again and again and again. If you get out now never have to feel this way again. Go no contact NOW. Plug your ears. He WILL beg you back. Just because he let her meet his son doesn’t mean he loves her more. He doesn’t truly love anyone but himself! Trust this. Trust that he sucks. Trust that he won’t change. Trust that you are worth so much more than he can ever give you. Spend time on you. Go to the gym, read some good books, volunteer at a shelter, look for opportunities to serve others. This will take your mind off of it and help you get past the pain. Best of luck!!

      • Thank you, SC. I am sorry for your pain as well. I know this is going to really suck for a while and all I want to do is ask him why? I know that no contact is the way to go. But, it is tough. REALLY TOUGH. I just keep asking myself ‘what is wrong with me’??? I was breaking my own heart. That is all it comes down too. You know, I tried to leave him 3 times in the 6 months and he talked me out of it. I was his rock, we are a team… blah blah blah. I just don’t understand.

    • Oh man. So sorry, Lori. Don’t beat yourself up, these people are pros at manipulation. You only got fooled for 6 months and you stopped his game for another woman who was also being used by him. You’re a hero in my book. Yes, do use this time to work on yourself and to strengthen your BS detector. Read, read, read here. I swear this place and the many links that Chump Nation supplies regularly has saved me from certain implosion. I was deflated and on the floor and saw no future after my own dday as were so many people here. We understand! cyberhug

  • I have left and blocked him in any way that I can. He has emailed me already and tried to explain himself this morning. I broke up with him last night and sent him packing. He is sorry for hurting me and is trying to be a better person…blah blah blah. I will give him this though… He does admit to being a compulsive liar, and found it easy to manipulate people, and admitting to be arrogant.

    I have gone no contact and it is difficult because I want to respond. I want to email his mom and his ex-wife and the mother of his child (new info – she bought all the furniture in his house…I did not know this. He made her out to be the wicked witch of west and a horrible mother…other layers to the shitty slice of liar lasagna). BUT… I wont. I just want him to hurt like I do… 🙁

    I am writing this through tears in my office… I cannot even concentrate at work, but I have to be here. I cannot be home alone right now. The silence would be deafening. And I know he is off work today, I might go to his place to ask him why…. So, I am being strong right now. But, I can honestly say I don’t know how long I can do that, and that is why I asked for help, and thank you again for all of your kind words. I am really weak right now and need all the support I can get.

    • Besides posting here…
      Take the time now to
      1) make a list of things you like to do, things that distract you, things that take you out of yourself.

      2) do them instead of things that will lead to more contact/entanglement with him

      Note Scott’s excellent advice, upthread — six months to care for yourself. Starting now.

      If you read back through prior posts on the site (that’s in itself a *very* good thing to do instead of contacting a predatory lying cheating ex) you will find scattered flurries of folks’ lists of how they got through. E.g., I remember that Glad has very many lipsticks in roughly the same shade! excellent! Small pampering!


      talk to a friend — if you have a friend who has been cheated on or messed over by a bad ex, such folks often have good tools for reducing the pain — itself only a feeling, and even the most acute feelings change! — while you redirect your life towards healthier paths

      become an amazon chump (but not the oh-how-can-I-save-this-relationship type! become a ‘WTF just happened’ amazon chump). There are a lot of helpful books out there for $.01-$.50 +3.99 postage! Gavin de Becker’s Gift of Fear would be useful right now, I think. Basic message: learn to trust your gut! not actually rocket science. But reading it will take you that many more minutes/hours/days from the hollow-pit feeling of DDay. And it’s a text that articulates the feelings that surround being chumped, sometimes dangerously.

      the internets are surely your friend. google phrases that apply and see what you discover. there are lots of helpful sites — many, again, have links that pop up on Chumplady’s pages — that offer food for thought. Dr. George Simon, Natalie Lue (baggage reclaim), etc.

      some folks go exercise crazy. some garden. some netflix binge (a friend of mine, not in the predictable demographic, became Stephen-Segal-righteous-vengeance-movie obsessed). take a class in something that interests you.

      Brene Brown (google website/blog) would urge you to start a gratitude practice (not just a journal, a conscious engagement with gratitude and patterns of paying it forward) — apparently that’s a life-saver.

      the point is, take this time to heal and grow! be gentle and generous with yourself. No hostile self-talk. Be your own best friend for the next month or so. Put it on your calendar that you’re processing grief for all October at least, cut yourself a lot of slack, and when you get through this — and you will ! — try to keep track of what worked for you because there are people who will need your guidance when they find themselves in the place of despair that infidelity takes us.

      p.s. — not surprising at all that his ex-wife is not the monster he portrayed her as. More surprising would be if a predator type really hooked up with another predator — not enough kibbles to go round, there. More likely she is a decent sort who trusted him.

      • Lori, shameless plug — if you’re Amazon chumping — you can get my book. See the box to your right. There’s a whole chapter on no contact.

    • Wow, Lori, big hugs to you.

      1) Stay strong. Yes, it’s easier for people to tell you this than it is for you to do so, but remember that all of us have walked in the NC shoes. NC is the only way that you can separate yourself from his mindfucks.

      2) Remember that Cluster Bs will cop only to what you know. When you say, ” I will give him this though… He does admit to being a compulsive liar, and found it easy to manipulate people, and admitting to be arrogant,” you are repeating his “poor sausage” story. He tells you this because you already know it. However, what he’s not telling you is that he’s still trying to manipulate you. His ploy is now to be the wounded birdie with the broken character wing. Oh please take him back into your home! Fix his broken character!

      Nope. The only one who can fix that is him. He’s now trying to hoover you back. If you break No Contact, he’ll have an answer for every single thing you say.
      3) Pamper yourself. There’s nothing wrong with getting your nails done, getting a massage, going on a weekend retreat, etc. Connect with you.
      4) Get your girlfriends and have a Girls Night Out. You need a support system. Dollars to doughnuts they were picking up bad vibes from your Ex. Need a voodoo doll? I have contacts for that. 😉
      5) Therapy. It’s part of your support system. You’ll need someone who can help you stay strong.

      Look, this guy is a real predator. I give him about a month before he moves on to some new victim. Let’s see. His XW buys the furniture in his house. His Scottish girlfriend was going to move to be with him. He’d proposed to the Scottish girlfriend, but was still seeing you (oh, because he didn’t want to upset you. What was he going to do when he got married? ).

      You really dodged a bullet. You know that intellectually. Your emotions haven’t caught up with your brain yet.

      Let your brain take over when he tries to contact you. The answer is always No Contact.

    • This is just a small side note.
      But years ago someone told me that whenever you hear someone trashing the x’s they’ve had in their past, pay attention and take note of how they talk when you’re discussing your own disagreements with that person. Do they use derogatory words/tones with you? Can they have an adult-level disagreement or do they revert to name-calling and insults? Since hearing that I pause a little when having a disagreement talk with anyone else. And typically the people who end up trashing others in their past, regardless of the other person’s character, are the same people who do not have the skills to have a productive disagreement with me. Sorry for going off topic but that has helped me with relationships, maybe it can be useful to someone here as well?

      • Need to clarify that I’m not talking about venting here, or to a good friend about a truly awful or abusive x. I’m talking about the guy you’ve known for a week or so, who is trashing his x or his boss or his friend who is in a fight with him. I’ve noticed that someone who is trying to get you on their side before you’ve even met the other person, has ended up being defensive and not good in healthy fighting. Hard to explain here, because most of us need to get it out and have trashed our xs here, I have!

    • Be kind to yourself – if you really want to eat that entire tub of ice-cream, go for it! Don’t hold back.
      As for the loser – grab your amazon-sword and cleave that fucker out of your life. If he get persistent and in your face, thats when you tell him to blatantly fuck off.
      (Hmm, maybe I’m a cynical bitch haha).

  • It’s all about boundaries… these people don’t have any and it hurts so much more when it happens when you’re married. I married someone who gave me enough evidence to leave early on but I loved her too much. Not even a year in I caught her cheating and my guess is that it was way worse than what I know for sure.

    Run, don’t stop. This person is a burning building and it will overtake you if you stay in there too long. A couple little burns will hurt for a while, but at least you’re still alive if you run!

  • I’m commenting more on this post than I ever have. Maybe it’s because your gut instincts have alerted you and you fortunately found CL in time. Like everyone else, we feel your pain because we have been there. No contact is difficult. I have children with my fucktard and every opportunity he gets he is trying to read me. Sociopaths spend their lifetime reading gestures, facial expressions, emotions, body language, and voice intonations.
    Cry in front of him = YOU STILL CARE
    Yell at him = YOU STILL CARE
    Tell him how much he hurt you = YOU STILL CARE
    Answer an upsetting text he sends = YOU STILL CARE
    I know you do still care right now, but in time that will start to fade when your heart catches up to your mind. You know he is NOT a good person. You know this.

    He will take all of this information to devise his next move on you. The only way you can take the control back is by not letting him in on your thoughts. Don’t answer the phone. Change your number. Don’t answer emails. Block him on Facebook. You can do this, Lori. Lots of of did learn the hard way and you are getting the best advice here.

    I have to see cheater when he picks up the kids and he tries to ask me about my day. I just remind him with a steady voice that it’s none of his concern.
    I am not at meh yet, but getting closer. I think about what happened to me everyday and it’s been 6 months since discovery. Healing takes time. You, Lori, can start today. Big Hugs!

  • wow, I am so glad I came here. I was blind. My eyes are open but they are sore and blood shot. The OW let me know that they were engaged. She flew here from Scotland and met his son and was introduced as his new mommy. We messaged most of the day. It was carthartic and painful but really opened my eyes, the blood shot ones to just how bat shit crazy he is. There is no other reason for this behavior, normal people don’t function like this. But, please don’t let this comment fool you, I am most definitely weak and have blocked him, and he has been leaving me alone. I’m just not sure how I would handle it if he came to my house. I really don’t think he will. His ego is too big… So, I will come here every day and remind myself just how fucked up he is and fix my man radar.

    Good night you lovely people, thank you so much. Really, I needed this more than I thought.

    • I hope you can resist because you need to get clarity to be strong enough to deal with talking in person, ime. If you do end up seeing him again pay close attention. When he looks at you, envision the OW next to him or whatever image of him makes you see his truth. He’ll be wearing the prettiest mask if you don’t keep remembering the truth.
      So sorry this happened. Hardest thing to get through 🙁 but you will.

      • Just to add-on to what UC has saidabout reminding yourself what he’s actually DONE should he get the opportunity to blather on with meaningless words, remember this. HE MADE *YOU* THE OTHER WOMAN. He engaged her. Demoted you. Treated you like second class. Brought her over, met his fam. Be mad. mad as hell at that fucker & don’t even allow him to ‘explain’ himself. What are his words worth? Not a damn thing.

        • Can we get a picture of the cake eater? So we can throw darts at it? On fire? My throwing arm would look like it was implanted from Arnold Schwra… Schwar… $#%#$! The governor of California.

    • Lori, don’t forget the other Woman is bat shit crazy too, cause she knows he’s a cheater yet she is gonna marry him anyway. You are not the only Other Woman, she is one as well. She is probably passing along every word you say straight to him. She is not your friend. Continued contact with her is probably not good either.

      • She’s still marrying him?! I misread, thought she had called it off. Wow, that’s unbelievable.

        • no, she left him. At least that is what she said. She went with her gut when she thought things felt wonky…. And she did not know about me. She said he just up and stopped communicating with her. Also disconnected his phone… He must have had two?? She is devastated as well…. I contacted her because I felt that he he may try to get back with her and hurt her more, because I left. I wanted her to know I existed before her… So, I emailed her.

          • clarification… I did not mean that I wanted her to know I was more important. I wanted her to know that he had been lying to her all along as well. What she does with the information is up to her.

            • That is why you are awesome and deserve reciprocation in a mate! You have empathy, that guy doesn’t. You’d always be the one making the effort, holding down the bills/house, altering your needs to keep him seemingly “happy”. It would never feel totally secure with him. You wrote above (somewhere!) that you just want to ask him “why” he did what he did. Watch and read some interviews with narcissists before talking with him in person, if you decide to actually see him in person ever again. They usually tend to use similar words and excuses. Could help you either not care to see him at all, or at least be aware of the wall of sweet words or excuses when talking with him. Here’s one interview, note that it’s always all about getting their own needs met (google “interview with a narcissist cheater” for more):

    • So glad to hear that you’ve managed to get to the bottom of this situation, or at least near enough to know that you’ve got to get out. You’re the third wheel in a psychopathic freaking mess. Always remember what this man was willing to do to the WOMAN HE IS ENGAGED TO MARRY.

    • Why are you even sniffing the way of the OW?
      That bitch deserves not even a single iota of your time. And yes, she is a bitch because she KNOWS this stuff and is contacting you.
      No contact with her, too. She’s the scum of the earth.

    • You are awesome Lori, if you need it log into the forums and start a thread for support. Jedi Hugs!

  • ‘Introduced as his new mommy’ – poor, poor, poor little boy. There are some people who shouldn’t be allowed to own dogs, let alone have children.

    He has ONE mother. That will never change. Any parent who is caring and sensitive would reassure a frightened child this endlessly. See, Lori, you dodged a bullet from a freak. Miss Scotland is an idiot.

  • OMG. RUN RUN RUN RUN. And in case you didn’t get that, RUN!!
    My first few months in with my ex (douchebag), he was texting with other women. I confronted him, DB was remorseful, promised to never do it again, yadda, yadda, yadda. Guess what? He spent the next 9 years of our relationship cheating, cheating and more cheating. The grand finale was getting a heroin and crack addict pregnant while we were together. You owe this “man” nothing. Since you’re not tied to him, get the hell out. Run, and get to your nearest therapist to help figure out why you think this would be acceptable. Self care, Lori!

  • feeling weak, want questions answered…. Want to call him. What is wrong with me? I thought I loved myself, and now I am starting to think I don’t….

    help..please. I know I’m being stupid. And, I am definitely feeling alone, and pretty worthless. All I have ever wanted was to have an authentic life and share that with my best friend. I thought he was the one. There are so many layers to his deceit. My head is spinning.

    I need a kick in the pants. Please, I am struggling.

    • This is a six month relationship. YOU need to go to daily counseling to see why you are attracted to a known liar, cheater, faker (LCF) when looking for an authentic relationship or read and reread what WE SAY and BELIEVE what WE SAY and not the LCF. You are confusing betrayal with love.

      He is tickling your dopamine release with hopium. You are imagining him to be something he is not and never was. He is promoting this lie to keep you in this total mind fuck.

      Do you have a “soul” death wish?

      That is what a relationship means with this arrogant narcissist.

      NO CONTACT. NO CONTACT. He is your “hopium” pusher.

    • Lori,
      Everything you feel is normal. Your heart & your head are at war. You don’t want to believe its real. Its like a death. Hell, it is a death. The death of the authentic life you thought you had with him.
      We’ve all felt this way. And many of us have given in to it. And if you do, you’re not a failure. Just know that you’ve already read how this story will end. You may need to prolong this process & have him prove to you what all cheaters eventually prove – that they don’t change.
      Is this the authentic guy you want in your life? Only if you want an authentic Douchebag Fucktard Narc.
      We all want answers.Just know his will be more bullshit, and ask yourself if anything he could tell you matters at this point. Ask yourself if it were your best friend going thru this, what would you tell her to do?
      Call upon friends a family to keep you company & do your best to stay away from him. If you fail, as many of us have, just know it only prolongs the healing process.

      • Thank you so much. Needed that. I am at work, but my head is not in it ATT ALL. My birthday is on Thursday, and I was looking forward to what he may have done of gotten me…

        • Look at is this way, you got the gift of truth. He showed you who he is & you can free yourself. You may want to read the Birthday thread from a few days ago. All the sucksational gifts & bullshit we endured. I wrote about getting back together with my bf a few days before my Bday because I listened to all his ‘regrets’ & promises, but also because I didn’t want to turn 50 alone. Total Chump! You can read how ‘wonderful’ it was – only a few months ago but so ridiculous I can already laugh at it.
          He’s pathetic – and honestly- your guy sounds three or four times worse.
          Why on earth would he deserve to be with you on your special day?

        • Whatever he would have done it wouldn’t have been real. Even if it were some nice thoughtful gift, it would have been thrown in a trash box a few years from now, along with any other gifts and memories from him!
          Now, you can be free of his weight and go with real friends, or spend the day and night with your real self. Shower yourself with loving deeds and thoughts and a nice gift, something that will remind you of how badass and good you are. Something that begins a new and wiser chapter of your life. What a perfect time for a bday! It’s a fresh start! Happy Birthday (thursday!)

        • Gift? Like maybe a an STD?!

          Any “gift” from a cheater is a hook to keep and use you as he sees fit.

          Happy Birthday – your life awaits you with worthy people in it.

  • Lori,
    You need to have us here at chump nation but do you have family or close friends you can call when you feel weak? You probably have a burning need to have your own ego validated. You want to know that you mattered and you have been conditioned to go to your boyfriend for that reassurance. He was the first person you wanted to call when you were ever upset and he probably comforted you and made you feel safe. He “acted” like he cared I’m sure. Lori, what you feel is normal. We have all had the turning point when realized that the person in sheeps clothing was really a cunning wolf. Seen any movies like that where the main character finds out her husband she had been backing up was really NOT who he said he was? Well, up until recently, I found out it happens in real life too. The bottom line is that YOU ARE WORTHY of love and YOU DESERVE a loving, respected, trust worthy relationship. We believe this, but it doesn’t really matter if you dont. Get out of the huge mind fuck. What is 6 months compared to the rest of your wonderful life? It’s really nothing. Your future involves new loves, new adventures, new experiences. Look forward to that. You will not always feel this way.

  • Lori, any time you start to think you can talk him into being a good person, remember he is ENGAGED to another woman. Remember he had at least two of you on the line and neither of you knew about the other. He is really sick and you cannot fix him. Do NOT let him pull a Martyr Man complex on you where he blames his childhood or his ex wife or WTF ever. And he will. Stay strong. You cannot fix him, that shit is the movies, this is real life. Even if he does something “heroic” do not let that get to you, he’s broken and he does NOT want to fix himself, he wants people who will let him fuck them over because he’s broken. Do not be that person, that is the definition of a doormat who ends up very sad and lonely. (hugs)

  • I know this thread is over two years old but this is the one I chose to read today. If you are still around, I’d love to chat with you Lori. Our stories are eerily similar….Long distance relationship (me) with him having another girlfriend where he lived, short relationship (almost a year), the feeling of being completely accepted, and of course, the utter devastation. Your story is so similar to mine. I’d love to hear how you are doing now. A year out from ending it and I still struggle. The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one lol.

  • Hi. I was cheated from the first day when we started. She said that she is afraid of relationship becasue she just broke from one, 5 months ago. So, I thought ok lets go slow. But after 3 months she have told me she was not alone and had her highschool crush as a not so seriously sex friend after her breakup with ex bozfriend 5 month ago. She is 27 I am 30. After she told me she said she wont see him again. But she did. They kissed and she dumped me.

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