Chump Kids
Just curious — how many of you chumps are children of chumps? How did your parents’ infidelity inform your experience?
Did you have a mighty parent who modeled self respect?
Did you never understand chump mom or dad’s story, until it happened to you?
Did you buy the narrative that Good People Just Have Affairs Sometimes, and did that enable you to stay in your fucked up marriage?
Did you learn to eat shit sandwiches at an early age?
It seems to me that we probably have a treasure trove of life experience here within Chump Nation of why staying for the kids is bullshit. You just breed another generation of chumps and cheaters.
Thoughts?
Nope. My parents are still happily married after nearly 30 years. mutual respect and love is still there. So I’m a chump in my own.
My parents will have 45 years together next month. It’s not a perfect marriage, but they love each other. I do know my father was tempted by a few women, and that things got a little strange (not that kind of strange) with the widow of one of his best friends/colleagues, but in the end, I’m certain my parents were 100% faithful to each other, even through some pretty serious shit, like my mother’s disfiguring cancer. My parents love and mostly respect each other. They are good to each other.
I was so proud of meeting a man who was seemingly less demanding and needy than my own father is. I smirked when my parents wondered why he and I didn’t have a shared bank account (my ex referred to our money as “my money” and “your money.”)
I was very afraid of being cheated on, and shied away from flaming narcissists when I was a single girl. I never thought I measured up, certainly not in looks nor in spontaneity, anyway. It took infidelity in my own marriage for me to learn of the other narcissist–the passive-aggressive covert, coward narcissist, like the flop I was married to.
Live and learn.
Yep.
Me, too. Parents married over 50 yrs. They had eachother’s back always (really sucks as a teenager trying to get away with something!). Dad is the salt of the earth, mom is the female version of that. Brother and sister happily married for many years (not to eachother). What happened to me? Our relationship has disintegrated, they cannot wrap their heads around my going back for more pain.
My parents hold hands and are all in love and have celebrated 50 years…
As I was telling my sister about my cheating wife, she told me about how my father cheated on my mother and then my mother had a revenge affair…
I guess back in the day, you just swept those things under the rug and carried on with the farce of your marriage…
I’m in farce mode, ‘for my kids’ right now, but really it’s because I’m frightened of change and I’ve been with this person since I was 16 and now I’m 50… Yea, my childhood sweatheart stabbed me in the back for one fifth of our 30 year relationship and I’m still with her. She’s playing the role of unicorn well.. has been for almost two years.
Me too! My parents have been married 46+ years and seemingly have a rock-solid marriage. They are blue-collar, salt of the earth, Catholics and we had a very happy childhood. My Mom definitely “wears the pants” in the relationship but I long-ago learned that dynamic works well for them. My Dad had a fucked-up upbringing (I don’t even know the half of it) so my Mom has been a steady & stable force & provided that love & support he didn’t have growing up. My sister and I (long before my D-Days) had often commented that their “perfect” marriage had a somewhat negative impact on us b/c we never saw them fight and therefore didn’t learn how to resolve conflicts or how to deal with confrontation. (Interestingly, I’m the only of the three siblings to divorce but my marriage had always been considered the “good” one – until they learned of his affairs – and my sibling’s are in relationships that seem more for convenience than love & mutual respect.) My STBX’s parents were married for 52 years before his Mom’s death a few years ago and from everything I witnessed, they were as much in love as my parents are. His bro is a Narc (imho) so not sure what happened with the kids but as far as I could see, they were raised well. In fact, the only reason I’m grateful for his Mom’s death is that it would have killed her to see how terrifically he blew up our family. Goes to show that FOO issues (or seemingly lack thereof) can only account for so much.
Same for me – my parents have been happily married for 58 years and are still in love. I am also a chump all on my own.
Me, too…my parents are still happily married after 47 years. They are best friends and still hold hands. I, too, am a chump all on my own.
I think that kids of parents of happy marriages just assume that everyone is like that! You dad was nice, so most guys are nice. I think that is how my mom got chumped. Whereas, I grew up with asshat dad, and I know FOR SURE that not everyone is what they seem. You were groomed, forgive yourself. Enjoy your happy parents!
Nancy, I definitely agree. My parents were happily married for over 50 years until my father passed away. I just “assumed” all marriages were happy. Any exposure I had to infidelity (friends’ parents, neighbors, etc) was filed under “that only happens to other people.” Little did I know … and both my sisters have also been chumped. They are still with their cheaters. Yuck. I can’t convince them enough to read Chump Lady and dump their stupid, a-hole husbands.
I can’t count the times I’ve updated that file of “that only happens to other people.” Right next to “that only happens in fiction.” I think these may be catchphrases for chumps and chump-in-training.
Yes Nancy, I agree. My Mom died at 64 but I know that she and my Dad would never have split up. Dad never showed any interest in dating afterwards. This made me very naive and I had no close experience with cheating/divorce. Sister and H married close to fifty years now. They will never split. Caring for each other through illnesses. On the other hand my EH’s father abandoned the family when my EH was in grade school, and all siblings but one divorced, and now us. Should have told me something right there.
Oh yes. I’m a Chump of a Chump of a sailor. They eventually split but Mom never got over it. Which made HER physically abusive. Yet he was always there for me regardless of how crazy he was making everyone’s life. So. Very. Confusing. My father was actually celebrated for his conquests and I was always in the middle. One thing for sure I can guarantee you that shit sandwiches for lunch were a hell of a lot more common than PB&J. Didn’t always taste good but I was a growning girl and hungry. A very tangled skein indeed. But I’m learning more here every day, Thank you CL and CL nation.
I’ll never be able to listen to that Buffet song without hearing that!
My parents were married for nearly 50 years and after my father died, my mom said she’d never find another man like him. My in-laws have been married for 50 years but I’m not so sure it’s all be happy. My FIL is sweet and lovely; my MIL is obnoxious, opinionated, bossy (and I’m being kind). I’ve always disliked her. My STBX used to model his father, but now I’m seeing his mother’s side rearing after all these years. Never thought I’d be a chump but here we are…
My parents have been married for 60 years, no affairs that I know of, but it is a toxic and abusive relationship. They both were abusive and I am sure mom is a narcissist. I think that the abusive and toxic marriage I chose was because of the way I grew up. It was my normal. I was the scape goat of my mom’s demons, just like I am for my STBX. At one point, while I was elementary school, I told mom that I was going to get her a punching bag so she could use it instead of me when she got angry. We all got a good laugh out of it. I had no idea that families weren’t supposed to be that way. Fast forward to my marriage, I had no idea I was worth of love and respect or that my husband should adore me, not constantly try to avoid me and scream at me when he had a bad day. The affairs, those were my fault of course, just like all my mom’s issues were my fault too. For me, healing is now dealing with the trauma of my childhood as well as the toxic, abusive, cheater that I have been married to for over 20 years. Finally figured out I can’t fix him, like I could never fix mom so I am just fixing me.
My parents never had this issue. They were loyal to each other. Same with my in-laws.
I am dealing with this on my own. I do not want my children thinking this is an acceptable way to live.
However, I really don’t think my mother could understand this if I told her about it. She is limited. I have heard her comments before about infidelity and believe me, she does not get it. Sometimes I get angry with her when I think about it. Of course, she doesn’t —know why I am divorcing my husband and the extent of misery.
This is just another thing that makes me feel alone–there’s a lack of support. This and other things make me feel on some days that all I have are assholes in my life.
I believe I learned to spackle from my Mother. There was talk of one woman – but I think it was more of an attraction than an affair when my Dad was in his 40’s.
My Dad was not a bad man, but he was self centred. He did what he wanted when he wanted and it was all about him for the most part. He was either working or golfing. Or with his Brother or friends.
My Mother ran everything and raised us pretty much on her own. When Mom died if cancer Dad was at a complete loss.
I don ‘t think he even knew how to use the microwave !
My stbx is a lot like my Dad in that sense. entitled to do as he wished. I was the stay at home wife appliance and I did not get bonus points for that!
My Mom was always active, volunteered and worked as well. But I think she was lonely too. Hard to say – but the fact that my work a holic narc H and I had no connection never dawned on me. It was how I was raised and didn’t know anything different.
I have put down the spackle and now see what a relationship should look like!!
Lisah,
This is my story, too. My mother was a child of an alcoholic father and a workhorse mother. She learned how to enable and “take it” all the time. Her response to Dad’s selfish behavior was to smile and let it be. I don’t think I ever saw her speak up. My father was physically and verbally abused by his mother, so he learned to hate women. I am one of six girls. My father had his favorites and I wasn’t one of them. We actually got into a fist fight one night when I was 16 because I came home drunk and said my peace. He won.
I learned how to do everything and be a doormat, hoping I wouldn’t piss off my husband. He ended up repeating what he grew up with; the doormat “appliance” (love that!) mother who hated her husband, and the entitled, explosive father who treated and used his wife to service his needs.
Looking back, I realize I didn’t stand a chance. It is amazing how we replicate our childhood dynamic as adults.
My mom and dad were married 46 years. My mom was kind of emotionally unstable and my dad, between his physically exhausting job and mom’s mood swings just didn’t have a lot of time for us kids.
They always struggled financially, but paid bills on time. By the time they both became ill and passed away within 8 months of one another, they had grown to a peaceable and genuine caring for one another.
My mom (the unstable one) became unglued and self destructive after Dad died. No one could do things right for her, she was mean and resentful and entitled. She took poor care of herself, verbally abused anyone who helped her, and told anyone who would listen what terrible daughters she had. My sister was a saint during this time supporting her medically and financially. I offered to move in and help her and she told me she didn’t need her peace ruined.
Deep down, she knew how cruel she had been when we were small. Looking back I think she was terrified at being physically helpless before grown children she so mercilessly verbally rejected and abused.
When she died, my sister gleefully gave me all ownership of her modest house. It’s sort of twisted that she “didn’t want another baby” and didn’t want me to live here. Now I do for free. It’s a giant FU to her in hell I’m sure.
I just read an article this morning that one of the more common PTSD manifestations of living with a Narcissist is OCD and compulsive cleaning. In the last year with WASBAND, I was full fledged. Obsessive couponing, stockpiling and organizing groceries, cleaning, cooking elaborate meals from scratch, taking on more and more a percentage of the household budget from my salary (80% by the end) in a flailing response to his complaints trying to earn back the idealizing phase of attention and stop the devaluing. Earning love from someone incapable of it.
Nope, I don’t have any FOO issues at all!
all.
Omg – compulsive cleaning?!?
That is me. When I am stressed, angry, hurt or confused I clean!!!
Interesting.
Now that I live on my own I am not so compulsive 🙂
omg my stepmother cleaned constantly! Possibly my dad was cheating on her…one day we all awoke expectantly for a planned family trip to Disneyland, and she declared we all must get the house clean before we left. It was late afternoon before we got out of there and all I remember now about that day is the frenzied cleaning–and of course my father deciding moments before we got in the car that HE needed a steak sandwich before we could go. She cooked it and cleaned up the mess while we waited, then waited some more for him to eat.
Luz,
you made me giggle alittle about the ocd while living with NARC.
everyone knew when narc was in the house, and shit was happening,
EVERYTHING I could get my hands on got washed, dried and meticulously
folded! LOL I would get sheets, curtains, rugs and things that were not
even dirty had to be washed! Not so crazy about the laundry with him
out of the house these days…
It keeps your mind busy, and it’s sort of a nesting behavior. All that stuff about rearranging furniture and painting? I did it. I remembered he got mad when I bought a red microwave. So I threw out his dishes and cookery wares and bought screaming red everything, top of the line Kitchen Aid. It made me feel my home was mine and mighty.
Whats wrong with a red microwave, I’m curious. I recently bought one in the same color after the one I’ve had for years crapped out and I wanted a color I normally wouldn’t purchase because I like white/ stainless steel combo. However, I’m attempting to redesign my interior for the purpose of changing/ rearranging the physical environment to reflect our inner changes- something we reference on here often. Again, what’s wrong with a bold red microwave, lol
Nothing, obviously. I gues he didn’t like red. But when your husband is a sociopath any decision made with one’s own money and without his all knowing approval is an insult to his bloated ego.
When we moved in together, his microwave was all filthy and peeling inside. It was gross and not safe. I asked if we could keep mine instead and he agreed enthusiastically. he never once mentioned it bothered him.
When he was moving out, and taking thousands of dollars of furniture purchased only with my salary, he shed not one tear nor extended one gesture of compassion over the loss of our family.
But he did sob over the new things he would have to buy, and I will always remember one of the last things he said to me. Blubbering uncontrollably. That I had thrown away his good microwave.
In my darkest days before d-day I would make pretty vignettes all over the house with vases, knick knacks, etc, and just sit and stare at how they balanced one another with size, shape, or color. I could just zone out and stare at them, I had never done that before!
“I just read an article this morning that one of the more common PTSD manifestations of living with a Narcissist is OCD and compulsive cleaning”
I look back at my entire marriage and see all kinds of OCD…couponing, living frugally, thrift shopping, gardening, cooking from scratch; even my hobbies became obsessive! I never thought about it like this before! But I’m realizing that as soon as filed for divorce, all of those obsessions fell away! Not only have I not done any of them, I haven’t even thought of any of them! Wow! Thanks for posting that!
My H started OCD behavior during my second pregnancy and it continues to this day, he even cleaned my house the first time he visited and follows the littles around with a wet cloth wiping up crumbs. He walked out when baby2 was 6 months old with shark eyes and full of blame. Does that make me the bad guy?
Nope, not at all. there’s kind of a difference between OCD as a form of power and control and OCD as an anxiety measure. I never cared what others did. I just reenacted the same futile scenario with my mom as my husband. I sensed I was not properly loved, that I was not good enough, and I obsessively tried to tap dance my way into their hearts by any means necessary.
Thanks for the link. I was just really struck by the connection between cleaning and PTSD. Hadn’t heard that before. I was always cleaning at home growing up, then trying to make household things perfect when married. I just hadn’t really made the connection to OCD in my marriage. I sensed it was a little weird of me growing up and that I was trying to be a pleaser but thought what I was doing in my marriage was just what one lovingly did. I am so glad to be free of that now. Things don’t have to be perfect and I don’t have to try to please someone else in my own home.
Luziana,
Do you have that article on OCD and compulsive cleaning? Sounds interesting and familiar.
Here you go:
http://letmereach.com/2014/10/01/signs-you-might-be-a-trauma-bonded-co-dependent-and-what-to-do-about-it/
He said one of the reasons he picked Schmoopie was because she is so ‘laid back.’ She laid back, all right.
I just was so anxious all the time. During the devaluing, I was convinced if I just made our home perfect he would go back to idealizing again.
I’m still very neat but I don’t nag any more, and I don’t push myself to exhaustion. Meditation and acceptance of self tell me I am awesome, my kids pick up after themselves and are interested in cooking, and cross words are just not often had. Our home is quite peaceful.
Great link, Luz. I’ll check it out tomorrow when I’m not exhausted. It looks like an interesting website. I wish we lived closer to one another!
Me, too! I’m in the Midwest. But heck. Two of my best friends live far, and distance ain’t nothing but a number. 🙂
Midwest Chump as well. Greetings neighbor! 🙂
Me too! Kansas City area 🙂 BEWARE of kc firefighters. Perfect profession for Serial cheaters
Hahahaha, Just remembered how friend characterized this desperate period of Pick Me Polka: “You were the Black Swan of Homemakers.”
Mum and Dad celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary this year. No cheating that I know of, they’ve always been very close, so can’t imagine there ever was. They have been together since they were children themselves and mum had me when she was only sixteen, They would be the first to admit they made a lot of mistakes bringing up us kids. I feel disloyal saying it, because I love them both very much and have come to terms with the abuses, but there was a lot of physical and emotional abuse when we were children. I have to say, beating your children was the norm those days (not thrashing your kids was frowned upon – the days when cartoon comics had father giving his kids ‘the slipper’ and the bobby on the beat was said to clip kids around the ear for any cheek). However, I do believe it set me (and my siblings) up for accepting abuse in relationships – so, trained to be a chump from birth.
My parents just celebrated their 50th anniversary last year. Mom was 6 months pregnant with my oldest sister when they got married, they struggled financially for many years and had many ups and downs but they WORKED on their marriage. I saw love between them every day. My dad would pat my mom on the behind and wink at her and she would do little things for him when he was tired. It was a give and take. They drive each other crazy sometimes but at the end of the day…….I still see them look at each other with love.
I am the only one in my family who is divorced. I never thought it would be me. NEVER. I wanted what my parents had and more. The man I married really lost out, I had so much to give and I valued marriage. I learned from the best!
My Mom and Dad were married over 60 years. In my 20’s there was an incident involving him watering the neighbor’s flowers/houseplants while she was out of town. Dad didn’t tell Mom. Mom hated this neighbor. All hell broke loose and Dad sat in the living room silent for 6 months until she forgave him. Mom was the center of attention in the family. Dad adored her to the point that he fought to live until after she died. She made him promise and even though he was so tired and ready to die he fought to stay alive for her benefit. Today is her birthday.
Dad’s father on the other hand I was told was a notorious cheater. He drank and was abusive to the point of bringing whoever he slept with home for Grandma to cook breakfast for them. Dad took his Mom to the courthouse and helped her get a divorce. Dad was her witness to the infidelity and cruelty. This was back in the day when divorce was taboo. He was on the outs with his dad for decades.
Finally, Grandpa had a girlfriend. We called her Aunt. She didn’t live with him, just stayed with during the day. In Junior High at a New Years Eve party a drunken man came up and introduced himself to me. He told me he was Aunt’s husband. He told me my Grandpa was a “damn fine man”. Turned out everyone but me knew about Aunt being married, including her grandchildren that were my age.
I’ve never been with a man who loved me or was as loyal as my Dad. I do suffer from low self esteem. I found out later in life that I was an accident and after I was born my Dad had a vasectomy. It’s the reason why I have spent my life doing the “pick me dance” with whoever I’ve been with. GAAAH!!
My parents will be married 50 years this year too. Well, that poses another question. I wonder if chumps just get played out of no idea that people behave like this?
I’m just curious how growing up with infidelity informs your own infidelity experience.
My parents were married for 50 years before my father’s untimely death about 13 years ago. My mother is an attractive and active woman, and the older widowers all want to date her. She has told them that she likes going out to dinner, concerts, and dancing, but she’s not going to play house. She was married to the best, and that’s that.
My home life was not dysfunctional. My parents believed that children needed to work out their own sibling issues. The result is that all of their many children not only love each other, but also like each other. Family get-togethers are positive events.
However, my younger sister made a disastrous first marriage at age 18 to an abusive asshole. It lasted not quite a year. My older sister has never married, and seems almost leery of non-gay men. I thought I was the normal one, but look what happened there. Both my brothers are married in solid partnerships. My younger sister has remarried, this time with a solid guy, though a bit patriarchal for my taste.
I think that if I had to lay some FOO issue at the door, it would be that we were always encouraged to take the larger picture. In a large family, you can’t squabble each time someone does some minor thing wrong. Now, we communicated that there was an issue, but without drama.
I think that works when you’re dealing in good faith with other people who also deal in good faith. My error was in readjusting my boundaries of what was acceptable–spackling–so that the bigger red flags were seen as idiosyncrasies. Did I mention that my siblings are all fairly independent people? We are used to dealing with idiosyncrasies.
But the big flag I ignored was how STBX dealt with conflict. In my family, we never were permitted to go on the personal offensive. We were instructed to work it out, to find out that yes, sibling A pushed sibling B’s buttons, and while sibling B was in the wrong to react in an inappropriate fashion, sibling A needed to back off when sibling B first said that buttons were being pushed.
STBX would never, ever apologize. Never, ever accept that he’d done anything wrong, pushed buttons, etc. At the same time, he could be very hurtful, very insensitive. He has been the only person who’s reduced me to absolute tears of frustration because he just didn’t seem to get that what he was doing/saying was hurtful.
And like a chump, I spackled over that–giving him the excuse of whacked-out brain chemistry (which is true)–and some emotional maturity issues.
I now see that as a major red flag about his inability to deal with life in general, and I will require decent conflict resolution skills from anyone else that I may date in the future.
CL –so glad you asked this question today. the social scientist in me drools over the empirical data in the replies 🙂 however my reply is for the chump in me..
my parents were married 50 years, no affairs. my therapist once wondered the same as you: did i assume my X was as good and honest as my dad (yes. i did.)
right now i am less concerned about my young adult daughters turning into chumps because i was chumped…and more concerned about how sending them back into “the burning building” alone with their dad – and how it affects them now.
the passive (and important) modeling a sane and authentic life or trusting they will figure out their relationship with cheater dad/mom on their own doesn’t seem to be nearly enough. we recovering chumps get constant reality reinforcement about NPD/BPD by reading this blog. Where is same for chump teen/young adult chump children?
i educated my daughters on how to prevent date rape and create boundaries with “mean girls” and narcissistic bosses. seems a direct and didactic approach to help them identify and protect themselves from current danger (i.e., dad’s continued gaslighting, blameshifting and kibble seeking with THEM) is needed to not only to prevent possible future chumpdom but for their current emotional well being.
would love to hear if chumps educate their young adult children (bio of cheater) about this. mine had a very bad experience with a therapist and won’t go back.
sending much gratitude to chump nation.
I love/Hate/Fear this subject, how do we prepare our kids for THIS big bad world? My take is similar to yours, they have to grow up sooner so I try to impart coping skills and the idea of hard boundaries.
Mine is but a single voice…. I hope it is heard.
My wife got a good education.. Her grandmother always bragged about how her boyfriend was the love of her life (not the grandpa that paid the bills and took care of her and the family).. Of course her boyfriends love was his wife he went home to every night. My wife’s mother ended up cheating with a coworker and marrying him, so that one had a happy ending. Her aunt used to bring the married boyfriend to our family functions. He went with her to the moms wedding.
When I caught my wife cheating, of course I got the ‘everybody does it’ line.. she even listed off everyone that’s ever cheated or was cheating. I’m sure she even made a few up.
“everybody does it” Then listed the people she knows that cheat.
You should have handed her a blank piece of paper and told her this was your list of people who live in this house that cheat.
Love it!
I think in most cases, it may be more about the cheater´s parents. My parents have been together for 53 years and though my mom is the dominating one, it feels like a compliment to my dad´s passive but good nature. They take care of each other and have each other´s back, and I can´t remember much fighting or any recollection of cheating. I always thought my marriage would last as long.
My STBX cheater, on the other hand, has the father-of-all-Narcs as his dad and though he may have never been caught at cheating, he is very mean, stingy and abusive. His first wife died of cancer and his second wife is a doormat who tends to his every need. My cheater is also a narc and hates his dad who never showed him love, so my theory is that his adult life has been focused on proving to his dad that he is not a loser and that he can be loved: “I am so loveable and not a loser, that I can get as many hard-working-smart-loveable wives as I want AND have lovers on the side. Everyone loves me…so there…”
I believe you are right, Susan. One of the creepiest things to come out of Cheater’s mouth was the comment that “love is supposed to hurt “. wtf ??????
Loyalty and commitment were completely modeled in my family. I knew my great-grandfather (my great-grandmother died just before I was born, I was named after her) – he didn’t remarry. Both sets of grandparents, and all aunts and uncles (5 on one side, 6 on the other) married for life. Once you join the family, you are family!
‘The Great I Am now’ … well, his father was his mother’s second husband (her first husband was physically abusive) and she was a chump expert. His father was a huge gambler, huge liar, huge stone-waller, huge ‘abandoner’, huge gas-lighter, Huge kibble eater. No talk of any cheating, but it would not surprise me at all, I just think it more likely those things weren’t revealed to his children. He once told STBX’s sister (when she asked him if he loved her) that he didn’t feel the same way about her as he did about her two brothers. She had big FOO issues about that, and, as she was also a cheater, used that as her excuse for needing kibbles in abundance from her many, many EA’s throughout her 23 year marriage.
I’ll never forget a story by a friend. She said her parents were storybook examples of love, honor, and cherish. She never saw them struggle, which left her with the idea that relationships were easy. So she went into her marriage with none of the tools she felt she needed to resolve conflict, pick battles, make compromises, etc.
I’m the child of a 50+ year marriage made in heaven… My parents worked on communication, always have had a date night, and felt nothing was more important than presenting a unified front to the four children. We never saw them fight – they always worked it out privately and spoke respectfully to and about each other. They still enjoy each other. I never saw the effort, just the ease. Around my mid-twenties I began to doubt that I’d ever have such a match…and I let the settling begin.
It kind of early yet with the responses I have read so far but I would say that it seems that most chumps just don’t think people/spouses would be disloyal.
I also have long thought that affairs are just the sign of the times. It’s a hell of a lot easier to conduct an affair these days with cellphones and computers and both spouses working outside of the home. The value of marriage has changed. We, as a society, have stopped working hard at it.
Or in my case, I grew up thinking that love was scarce and could disappear, and that people had short romantic attention spans. So I got chumped by someone I had known for 30 years and trusted. Never saw it coming until he was in gaslighting stage.
Nope, my parents are still happily married (as far as I know – that’s what this whole thing has taught me, you truly never know. All of our friends thought we were happy. I thought we were happy. I digress.) Both sets of grandparents were married until one of them died. My grandpa’s sperm donor (oh I’m wording it like that for a reason) kicked him and my great-grandma out of the house when my grandpa was a little child so that he could be with his secretary. Never had anything to do with my grandpa again. My great-grandma never remarried and raised my grandpa on her own. When I got divorced, I went back to my maiden name because I didn’t want cheating scumbag’s last name, but I guess I still have A cheating scumbag’s last name. :/
My ex, however, his parents divorced when he was young amid allegations of his mom’s cheating. NO idea if that’s true or not, but I definitely see his mom’s Narc behaviors in him. Ironically enough, he never got along that well with her. Maybe two Narcs can’t be in a room together?
I think they sniff each other out. Narcs have good narc-dar IMO. Only so many kibbles…. gotta understand the competition.
I think you are right… I think they see themselves coming from a long way off and chumps like me look like easy pickens.
My parents were married for 55 years and I would say that 30 of them were truly happy. Something happened when I was very young (6-10) that resulted in my dad sleeping in a separate room for what seemed like a long time. So long that it came to seem normal to me. My mom never spoke of it, and after a time he was back in their bedroom. My mom was a complex woman, and raising my sister and I was taxing on her emotionally, I think. My sister was tough – pure 60s/70s pot smoking rebellion. I was the “good girl” – so much so that no man was ever going to be good enough for me in her eyes, and so I essentially ran away from home and all the luxuries it provided to marry Shit-for-brains when I was 23. He was the first man who had ever really pursued me and the first to stand up to my mom – so I was mesmerized and hooked for life…until D-day exposed him and you know the rest.
My mom and dad did what was right – they didn’t bail, Dad didn’t get fed up and abandon us with no money and marry a 20 year old – he stayed true to his vows because – well – they were VOWS. You didn’t take things like that lightly back in the greatest generation days. My dad had enormous character, and my mom was exquisitely beautiful, talented, passionate and emotionally fragile. So no – I didn’t come from a chump background in the long term – but that time in the middle when I was small….it would not be hard to connect the dots and draw a conclusion. But in the last 20 years of their marriage – with all the responsibilities of children past and stresses diminished…I think they were as happy as when they first were married and life stretched out before them. They were proof that sometimes you can get past things, that a great relationship and marital equity isn’t always disposable – that it is worth keeping because it will get better when you are in a rough spot. That sounds chumpy, I know – but in their case it was true.
My parents split when I was 8. ExH parents have been together for 37 years. I thought if anything, I would be the one to leave. Before engagement we completed a book entitled 1500 questions before you get married. Wouldn’t you know we agreed on almost everything?! We did 6 months od premarital counseling too, requirement. Thought I had found the opposite of my dad, but nope, found the same. Funny thing, during a counseling session, we had a fight the night before and I remember saying “it feels like I’m marrying a liar”. The counselor told me I needed to be less rigid and realize that not everyone is perfect…
As a kid, I wasn’t close with my dad and stopped talking to him eventually at age 11. He was married to mistress by then and I couldn’t stand her or his attitude around her. From mom, I always heard “he’s your father and her loves you” so I had a very low standard for what love was.
Spackeling was definitely inherited from my mom.
Oh, this is a scary comment for me, Ashley. I have been saying to my kids that there father loves them even though he is very angry and strict with them. He has his nice moments but is usually on the tense-depressed side, especially now that he is losing his life as he once enjoyed it. I am nervous if the kids ever meet the OW because the little one already tells me that she hates her for ruining our family. I hope they are not also developing low standards, as you say….though I always tell them they should not be with anyone who doesn´t respect them or treats them badly.
How old are your kids?
Susan,
Stop lying to your kids. Their dad doesn’t love them, or, rather, he loves himself more. The cognitive dissonance between what Mom day, ‘Dad loves you’ and his actions will fuck.them.up. It can come out sideways all sorts of nasty ways-self-harm, drugs, promiscuity, etc.
Put the spackle down. When it comes to Mr Fab’s actions and words that hurt my DD, I make no comment, beyond addressing daughter’s pain. You are righ, they should not be with any one who hurts or treats them badly. Not anyone, even their dad.
Post DDay, my cheater just became more of what he already was-a sperm donor with a Napoleon complex. I am NC with him, DD pretty much ditto. And it is so. much. better.
My mom spackeled, but pretty clear dad cheated and quit his job when he was demoted for it. Learned this later.
He literally abandoned the family. Cops in our smalltown thought she killed him, or it was an insurance scam.
Mom was undiagnosed bipolar. Life was very tough. She was ill and could not make good decisions; no one recognized it. We moved a lot. Dad re-appeared a few years later, but really only to get married to the girlfriend met during those years.
My exH was my high school sweetheart. It was extra devastating when I realized I had married my father (exH sorta abandoned the family when he took a job in another state, claiming it was work he was unhappy with… He found a fellow cheater there, and ended the marriage… Did not return.
My kids were devastated.
In hindsight, what did I learn:
I was the daughter who took care of younger siblings… You do the work without complaint. Always think of others.
My parents never really talked about relationship stuff, so I never learned how to bring things up non confrontational. At the end, parents were arguing over money, loudly… So I never got angry with ex. We NEVER once had a fight… But I guess resentment (and entitlement) built up.
My goal is that my kids break the cycle! (Grandfathers and great grandather on both sides were all cheaters, too).
My parents are also still happily married. Both sets of grandparents stayed together in what appeared to be very loving relationships until one died. In fact, in my whole extended family there is no divorce and no (known) affairs. I always assumed I became a chump because of the GOOD examples I had … made me believe that marriage was a blessing to be cherished and made it hard to really believe that people behaved the way cheaters do, even with the evidence right in front of me.
Parents were happily married until my fathers untimely death at a young age. My mother never remarried or even dated. My three older siblings have great long term marriages and i have one sister who is a cheater and a user. I got chumped. My ex though was the conductor at dysfunction junction. Her parents were just a pile of crap. So she came by it honestly.
“Dysfunction junction, what’s my function” (channeling Grammar Rock).
Yes!! I am Child of Chump and learned how to eat shit sandwiches early on! My mom found out about my dad’s girlfriend when I was 2, so she got pregnant to convince him to stay. He was still planning to leave until my brother was born — HIS FIRST SON!! — so he decided to “stay” — kind of. He had us upstate and girlfriend (now wife) in the city. So during the week he would stay in the city “working” (such a good provider) and on the weekends he would come home and play “happy family.” Except dad always slept on the couch. During the week my mom would drink, pop pills binge eat, rage constantly, and beat the shit out of me and my sister – I guess she blamed us for losing her prize of a husband.
The legacy of those lies and that kind of fucked up deception is still with me in my 50s.
How I wish I could have watched her rise up on her strong Irish legs and shout, “GET THE FUCK OUT YOU LYING, CHEATING, PIECE OF SHIT. DO NOT COME AROUND HERE TRYING TO TEACH MY DAUGHTERS THAT THIS IS HOW A GOOD MAN BEHAVES.”
Oh I still dream of that!!
Parents divorced when I was three due to fathers adultery. They got back together a short time after that we lived as a family until I was about 8 or 9 until he cheated again and was given the boot. Can anyone say confusing for a child? A year or so after that Mom remarried (a wonderful man, who sadly just passed away) and a year after that dad remarried.
dad was never on time for anything except his own funeral. My brother and I would spend hours looking out the front window waiting for him to pick us up on on scheduled visitation days, or calling him because he was always late (by hours not minutes). We were often left in cars, and one time even left in a hotel when I was about 4 and brother was 7. I joke with my brother about it now because it was the Playboy Hotel in NY and a kind “bunny” housekeeper came to clean our room and since I was scared and crying, she was nice enough to stay with us until dad got back to the room. So, I got him a playboy bunny. LOL
Sad thing is I just found out that dumbmotherfucker ex, just recently left my elementary age son in a car for 6 hours while taking older son and himself shooting….. Fucking piece of shit jackass.
With that being said, I see now how parts of my childhood did affect me. My parents fought and couldn’t stand to be around each other (I do feel NC is the right thing to do and I embrace that), and I feel my father never made us kids a priority, unless it suited him. I also see (after having to go through so many documents after all parents have passed, how he tried to antagonize my mother). I finally told him when I was 14 that I will only visit when I want to. My mother would fight for herself however, he had attorney friends and it became not even worth the fight after a while because shit would just drag on….
I have so much admiration for my mother and stepdad for all that they did for me and for being those role models. For my father, I am thankful for the lessons on what not to do and how to mingle with all types.
I tried to stay for the kids thinking to myself, I love the kids more than I hate ex. But in the end, what kind of role model would I be and how could I respect myself being someone elses doormat lying a lie…..
Hmm… My parents have been married 52 years. Well, 53 in 12 days, I think,
No infidelity, but there was an incident when my paternal grandmother was in a nursing home, and my dad was spending time chatting up one of the nurses. I was already out of the house, so I learned about this post-my-dday when Mom core dumped on me.
Apparently she heard about this, confronted the woman, contacted a divorce attorney, and that was that. Dad used to drink too much too, and part of the “avoid divorce deal” was giving up drinking. He hasn’t drank in about 30 years.
They’re far from perfect parents, and they have their issues, other than that above, though. My mom’s a hopeless codependent “here let me do this, and then you will appreciate me” type of person, and after 67 years on the planet, she hasn’t quite managed to figure out this doesn’t work out like she expects every single time, and she eventually winds up affronted by being taken for granted or not appreciated. It’s a bit tiresome.
My dad is, to put it kindly, compulsive. Yeah, he gave up drinking, but he replaced that with a war on disorder. For example, it’s Fall, and that means leaves will be falling. He will be at war to keep every single leaf off his lawn. And by war, I mean he will be angry they keep winding up on his lawn, and he will curse his and the neighbors’ trees and talk about how they need to be removed.
This war on disorder is not confined to yard work. It is wages on water spots in sinks, trash cans that aren’t completely empty, carpet with foot prints (must be brushed one direction), and so on. On the one hand, he does all the housework, yardwork, etc. On the other hand, he gets very upset over things like you putting something in the trash can because “he just emptied that”.
Sigh.
I am the only child of a malignant narcissist father and a covert narcissist mother. Nobody ever sat down and discussed problems, they were just ignored, or denied, until they came up and bit someone in the ass. There were lots of lies and secrets. My father was a cheater, once that I know of but judging from his behavior, it was probably many times. Dear ol’ dad actually could not stand me and made no bones about it. I was competition for mom’s attention. It was warfare between them for all the years they were together. I was in the middle. Took a long time to see narc mom for what she was, she was a lot more sneaky with the abuse, where narc father was much more in-your-face with his abuse.
It was no accident I married the two cheaters, having absolutely no idea what was normal and healthy. Two things have saved my bacon so to speak. I spent 3 out of my first 5 years living with my grandparents who were loving towards me so I had a sense that someone loved me and that I mattered to my grandparents. And I have always been plucky which earned me a lot of beatings as a child. I bought into some of their disordered narc BS but rejected a lot of it too. Growing up with them. I decided at age 8 that they were crazy, and kind of adopted a prisoner of war attitude toward them. I got the hell out as soon as I could.
I am working diligently to unlearn all the FOO crap I did believe. It has been a journey, that’s for sure.
I had a similar situation with my mom, competing with her for my father’s attention, so she ended up hating me. I can dig the POW feeling. I had 2 lives going from age 12 to 24, then eloped with someone to get out of the dysfunctional house. I am paying for that now, the past 10 years have sucked, and now the marriage is ending. It helps to know that I am not alone.
My parents marriage sucked, complicated by my brother dying in a car accident when I was 12, my mother attempting suicide and my father becoming a highly functioning alcoholic who used to threaten me if I left my mother alone…..yes, I have consumed ample shit sandwiches in this lifetime, all in the name of preserving “normal”, whatever the fuck normal was. Still doing it…..I have mad coping skills but basically am ready only for disappointment with everything and everyone. It begets bad choices. My husbands continual torch bearing for the OW in his emotional affair is just collapsing me. I would rather live the rest of my life alone than take care of anyone else and their shitty needs anymore. Sorry for the long comment.
Yeah Smart, I totally get not wanting to put up with anyone else’s BS anymore. Today there is freedom in my life. Alanon has much to teach about healthy detachment, which translates into healthy boundaries. Helped me bunches.
Both of my parents married young due to unplanned pregnancies. My Mom’s first husband abandoned her and my half sister within months and my Dad abandoned his young wife and son within months. So these two got together and had a disastrous marriage. I think I was about 10 or 11 when my mom told me all about the affair my Dad was having and how she couldn’t leave (I think she actually used the words “am stuck here”) because of me and my brother. My grandparents raised my half-sister, who has had three failed marriages due to infidelity. My brother is on his third marriage, though he has never been unfaithful.
So I am the only one who has never been divorced even though my husband had an affair 15 years ago. We worked hard to stay together and it has worked out very well for us. I really wanted my children to have a different life than my siblings and me.
My parents have been married for 52 years. No infidelity that I am aware of. They seem happy in their golden years, but as a child there was a lot of dysfunction. Both were children of alcoholics, but my parents never drank. My mom experienced a mental breakdown was I was in my early teens & became very withdrawn. She often took her emotions out on me & I was left in a constant state of confusion, as I did not know what was coming next. My dad had a bad temper back in the day. My mom always told me she cried the day I was born because she wanted a boy for my fathers sake & that she kept saying she was sorry to him. My dad use to tell friends and family members in a joking manner (yeah right) that I was an accident and I should of been swimming in the toilet instead of towards an egg. Ouch right? My sister was literally a beauty pageant & dancing queen. Competitions all over the US. Clothes from expensive department stores, costumes, etc., while I had to wear discount store clothing. So that is where my chumpiness comes from. Always wanted acceptance, but always in the shadows. My parents realize their mistakes and have apologized and have made up for my childhood. And for that I am thankful for. But as a kid, the feeling of being told you were an accident or a disappointment by your mere gender sticks with you for years. Total mind fuck. But in the end all of the bullshit that made us chumps, will make us stronger, more empathic and more understanding. This I am certain of. I am not a victim. I am a warrior with a few scars to prove it 😉
My parents separated when I was a teenager and later divorced. I was told it was not due to infidelity. I had thought my parents marriage was good. They argued sometimes, but nothing bad. I had a great childhood (I think!). So their divorce was really hard on me. I even thought for a while they might get back together, and that’s what I wanted – even as someone in my twenties. I will admit that affected how I viewed marriage. As in like “What’s the point. Love doesn’t last anyhow”. This baggage did cause some issues early on in my marriage until I realized I couldn’t push my husband away on purpose. This happened before counseling was popular. I probably should have gone to address this, but I didn’t. My parents never understood how much that affected me and my relationships were not necessarily the same as they had been before. And at that time, I didn’t talk to anyone about my problems and kept everything bottled up. So even “just” a divorce did affect me.
As for how we viewed someone being a chump: My father’s father had abandon his mother and siblings when he was young. He was an alcholic and allegedly had girlfriends. My grandmother never remarried or even dated from what I was told. I remember even thinkng shortly before my husband left that, gee, my grandmother didn’t seem like that bad of a person to have her husband abandon her, BUT SHE MUST HAVE BEEN A REALLY AWFUL PERSON TO LIVE WITH IF HE DID THIS TO HER. Obviously my thoughts on that have changed, because I do not believe I am an awful person to live with. But I DO believe that OTHERS I know (from comments made) do, in fact, have that same mindset that I had. You always felt “bad” for someone who went through this, but you don’t really understand it until you go through it yourself.
No! I come from an intact family, stable background, well-adjusted, educated, middle class, looks great from the outside.
Through this horrific experience I’ve come to realiZe that I was raised by a covert narcissist (mother), hence it explains why my boundaries are off (well, have been, I’ve worked really hard in therapy to change that.) it’s always been about pleasing mother and succumbing to her controlling ways, so it wasn’t a big surprise to me how gradually I’ve turned into a chump.
Not me, but a former cheater friend had a cheater dad. She grew up furious with her mom for failing to stand up for herself, and very resentful of her father for his philanderings. I don’t know all the details, but I believe that when she started to feel the slightest bit dissatisfied with her marriage, she was afraid to become her mother by accepting what she perceived to be an unhappy marriage. So she followed in her dad’s shoes and cheated. Her husband left her, never looked back, and remarried a lovely fellow chump about 2 years later. I stopped being friends with her after that, too. I’m no longer friends with her, either.
It’s the weirdest thing when people become exactly what they are trying to avoid by trying to avoid it, and they don’t even seem to realize that they are doing exactly the same thing and probably using the same or similar rationalizations.
My parents were married for 55 years and never spent a night apart. They did not model any touchy-feely affection and my mother confided in me that she didn’t really love my father when they got married. I witnessed a few sharp words, but never any screaming matches or outright abuse. My excuse for staying in this fucked up mess of a relationship is that I was brutally bullied and teased as a young girl by some classmates. I believed what they said about me and never confided in my parents about what was going on. My self-esteem has been in the tiolet for years and I used to struggle almost daily with negative self talk. What has helped me stop that is blogs like this one, where I can see that I am not the only dumbass that stays too long, mediation and a good friend.
I’m a chump of a chump of a chump. Yep…three generations of chumpiness. I’ll be damned if my daughter is going to be the 4th. I never knew about my grandfather’s infidelity until after my mom decided to share after DDay#2. My mom also shared that my father had been previously unfaithful to her early in their marriage. They married young, she was pregnant etc and excuse, excuse. My father reverted to his old coping mechanism of cheating when I left for college. He ended up marrying a woman half his age from another country and then he got cancer and died.
There is no history of infidelity on my EH side of the family. He’s the first. He’s a classic workaholic and alcoholic who “changed” as his addictions worsened. He was a completely unselfish giver when we married and now he’s so selfish he can’t see straight. It’s sad. That really great first 8 years kept me chumping for a while, but once I realized that he had no intention of really changing or really wanting to be in our lives I got out. As in moved across the country out. I just went NC except for kids and finances about 2 weeks ago and it’s so awesome. I cannot recommend it enough.
My kids are young 5 & 7 and I struggle about what to tell them. On the advice of my counselor, I told them that mommy and daddy have big kid problems that we can’t solve and so we are divorcing. She said to emphasize it’s not their fault…which it’s not because they are totally awesome. BUT I will tell them eventually. I do not want either of them to become future chumps. I clearly learned something from my family’s past chumpiness…
Wow, so many sad stories. I’m lucky, other than the whole secret adoption thing, my childhood was very good. Parents married 42 years, until he got cancer and died. She was heartbroken and died less than a year later.
My cheater, on the other hand, comes from a fucked up mess. Parents continuously fighting, splitting up, reuniting, etc. Divorced when he was 16. Of all four siblings, he is the least fucked up. One is schizophrenic, other two have multiple divorces.
In a word, yes. Mr Fab is a carbon copy of my cheating, alcoholic, abusive father. Mom spackled and stayed together for the kids. Results not good.
Feel free to ignore the final line, but in honor of poetry day, here is some Philip Larkin. Nails it.
This be the verse:
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.
I love this Larkin poem – thanks for posting Mephista 🙂
Larkin rules! You have to respect a librarian who can say ‘books are a load of crap’, LOL
Raises hand. Yup. My parents were married in ’54. In ’55 they had my brother and in ’57 they had me. Less than a year later there was a knock on the door. It was my dad’s other woman who came to say she was pregnant. The whole family scraped together about $150 and she went away to have her baby never to be heard of again. My mom kicked dad out and began divorce proceedings.
It gets blurry after that, but it would appear that during their separation my mom had a fling with a married man at her work. She found herself pregnant and so my dad came back to us and raised my sister as his own.
My mother NEVER came close to getting over his initial cheating and there were a few more in later years. The house was toxic with huge fights between them. My mom took all her anger and frustration about what my dad did out on me. She later apologized for her emotional and physical abuse of me when I was roughly 1-3 years old. I don’t remember it, of course, but I’ve never liked her and never felt close to her my entire life. (We fought constantly).
She shouldn’t have taken him back and she never trusted him again. Yet I can’t imagine my childhood without my dad around.
THEN, flash forward thirty years and my mom and dad see that his H.S. class reunion is taking place at a nearby hotel. She says, “You want to go in? Let’s go in?” He said no, he didn’t want to.
They get home and she draws a bath and is in the bath when he comes in to say he’s just going to pop over to that reunion to see what’s up.
Sure enough a fling with his high school sweetheart, the red-headed Rosemary we’ve all heard about all our lives soon followed. Dad left mom and they proceeded to divorce. Rosemary, however, was too frightened to leave her husband and so she and my dad broke up. He had a one year affair after that with this woman he called the love of his life, but she was borderline, weird, and would not commit to him while he ran her baths and lit candles and massaged her. She was 20 years younger than him.
Flash forward another few years, my mother who had always been a good bread winner had the bottom drop out financially and now was having trouble getting hired due to her age. My father meanwhile had gone through all his marital assets and was doing his best to help my sister financially so to help them both, he moved into a spare bedroom in my mom’s house to pay her rent, and to be able to help my sister more.
In another couple of years they remarried simply so that my dad could give my mom health insurance. They never shared a bed or were intimate again. My mom always tries to pretend it is a marriage and my dad scratches his head wondering why she thinks it is a marriage. He claims he made it clear to her that he married her only to help her have insurance.
Now my dad is 80 with COPD and my mom is 78. They pretty much despise one another and I feel bad that this is their reality at this stage of their lives. I can see that dad would rather be alone than have this bitter woman attempt to take care of him when the time comes but money prevents that. I can see my mom still being resentful and cruel with her hurtful remarks. I’d much rather live alone than end up in a relationship like they have.
I think my father’s cheating made all of us feel insecure that he’d leave again at any moment. It did cause all of us to do the pick me dance all our lives. I feared my mother would remarry some weird ultra religious person whom I had already convinced myself would molest me so I didn’t want dad to go.
Now I’ll soon be divorcing my fourth husband, so you tell me if my volatile and abusive childhood has anything to do with that!
Wow! I’ve yet to tell my story, but this question begged a response. I have been surrounded by cheaters my whole life. It goes back generations. My family members have openly flaunted mistresses. They’ve come to family outings. It was just something that was accepted. The norm was to stay married and deal with it. When my great grandmother was alive and my STBX cheated the first time, she wanted to know why we were separated. ‘Just let him do what he wants–if he comes home’. My parents divorced because of it. Dad married and eventually divorced his OW. I think my mom would have stayed. One aunt left her husband. Everyone else accepts it. Sadly, I think it’s a cultural thing for us…which is why when my husband confessed, sort of, and said he didn’t want a divorce, he assumed it would be that sort of arrangement. He knew I would do anything to keep our family ‘together’. He also knew that his behavior of lying, cheating and ‘gas lighting’ over the years had left me with no self esteem or confidence. I thought I’d be better off with half a marriage than divorced. Fast forward 18 months and lots of therapy and I’m about to be done with it. I have two boys who I’ll be damned will put another woman through this sh*t. Yay for trying to break the cycle.
Nope, parents just celebrated their 45th anniversary. Never a hint of anything close to infidelity or divorce, we grew up Catholic, which sometimes brings along it’s own issues of chumpiness. They weren’t overly affectionate and never had date nights, but they always provided for my sister and I and did the best they knew how.
My Ex, on the other hand grew up with an alcoholic chump father and a mom who had several affairs before they divorced. I sometimes wonder if my ex isn’t emotionally stuck at the age she was when they divorced. She professed how much she despised her mother’s affairs, only to repeat them.
I think my cheater is stuck at 16, for sure. He got no morals from his passive agressive victim mother and even fewer from his abusive ocd father. When I told her he’d been kicked out of the house for cheating she said “I’ve been accused of things I didnt do too .” Hello, lady, he admitted it. I’m sure she never doubted babyboy was innocent. She never corrects his behavior on anything and I doubt she ever did. Hence, he thinks he can do no wrong.
Not Juliet, your mother-in-law and mine are the same person. When I was told about the affair I sent a letter to my sister and brother-in-law and father-in-law explaining why I was divorcing cheater’s lying ass. I then get an email from mother-in-law. She included ex. The email stated that she is so sorry that we are both hurting so much and she wishes us the very best. I emailed her back and told her to never contact me again.
I detest her kind of denial. Some kinds of denials are needed to survive, but that kind of gaslighting–you-must-be-stupid-so-I-will enact-wide-eyed-innocence-in-your face-with-my-bloody-hands-behind-my-back—is so insulting. But of course they are so disconnected they don;t even realize they are seen as idiots themselves.
No wonder he turned out the way he did.
She may have been traumatized prior to the divorce, though, because she wasn’t even adult enough to confess, even when I found pretty strong evidence. All I got was more lies and manipulation until I found the smoking gun. Then she couldn’t get away fast enough.
But after reading all of the heartbreaking childhoods on here, I’m very thankful for the childhood I had, and my heart goes out to all the rest. It’s sad to read how common abuse and infidelity is.
I told her he’d been kicked out of the house for cheating she said “I’ve been accused of things I didnt do too .” Hello, lady, he admitted it.
How’s that for and example of expert-level, accomplished use of persistent denial as a coping mechanism?
Honestly, not that I am aware of.
But NOTHING was ever talked about, EVER. Apparently no one ever had s – e – x or got a d – i – v – o – r – c – e.
With my adult eyes, I can definitely see the patterns of dysfunction.
My Dad’s parents fought constantly – so he vowed never to fight. My Mother’s parents never fought because my Grandmother’s parents fought constantly – so she vowed never to fight.
Women were meant to be angels or saints. And, add to this fairy tales of ‘you’ll meet your Prince Charming, fall in love and live happily ever after’.
I honestly didn’t know what to do when the exH had his first affair. I was frozen and then went into denial. I didn’t know that Prince Charming might or could stray… and when caught, would lie and continue to lie.
I didn’t have any tools in my tool box to know that I deserved better.
My exH was shocked when I found out his 2nd affair (but God really only knows how many there were) and said enough. (To give context, at that point he had temporarily moved out to clear his head which he was doing while living with the OW. He had had not told me but was comfortable telling all of his friends.) He was genuinely shocked when I started the divorce proceedings. This speaks to the dysfunction on his part.
Anger is a powerful way to break old family patterns, lol.
I over heard my dad talking about being with a woman while he was away on vacation, I was probably 7 or so. I remember feeling sad, and I don’t think I ever looked at him the same way. We had a pretty rough relationship growing up. I wanted to move out when I was 16 just to get away from him.I don’t know if my mom ever knew about his cheating. They are divorced now but not because of his cheating. To this day we still don’t have much of a relationship, we only see each other a couple times a year and we live in the same small town. I don’t think my parents marriage was the reason I stayed after the first DDay, I just thought you were supposed to work through things, and he was extremely remorseful. Oh and I was pregnant with our first child (we had 3 miscarriages previously) so I thought I owed it to my baby to give him another chance. 2 years later he tells me about hoodr latest affair with a 19 year old girl, then receive a fb message from her saying she was 4 months pregnant. As of Tuesday he was served with divorce papers. He had the nerve to ask me what it meant! And if I was still willing to make our marriage work. I told him that he was served for a reason, because I want a divorce. I told him he needed lots of counseling. He finally admitted the reason he wouldn’t let me have access to any money was so I couldn’t leave him. He has put spyware on my phone, emailed my therapist telling her I was suicidal (she laughed as she read it to me), stranded me and our daughter at a gas station for 40 minutes because he wouldn’t transfer money over so I could get gas. And a whole slew of other things that have nothing to do with the questions you asked. Sorry, got heated up for a second lol. Anyway, I don’t think my parents relationship affected me so much as what I thought marriage meant in general and that divorce is a very bad thing that will screw your child up forever. That’s what hung me up for a long time. But I know now that staying will be far worse for my 3 year old.
Thanks for everything you do! You will never know how much you have helped me! I always recommend your blog to people on fb, providing links to your posts. As soon as I get my first paycheck (just got a job at a state prison as an RN!) and I buy new tires (stbx wouldn’t) I am going to buy some of your merchandise, my small way of saying thanks so much for all the time you spend helping us chumps. Thanks again!
Congrats on turning your life around! You’re inspiring!
Yep…..Dad cheated on Mom and it almost destroyed her.
She spackled even when we all encouraged her to leave him.
She was a lifetime SAHM and so had nothing to fall back on.
She started drinking more to numb the pain.
I essentially became her 15 years ago on the first D day.
Minus the drinking.
I stayed with him to protect my girls.
Long story short, if I had left him I didn’t trust his alone time with them.
Feared custody and visitation time. I cant’ go into that here. But there were reasons.
I spackled and protected and we moved our asses to the burbs to start over.
15 years later find out, that he never stopped the perverse behavior, he just buried it really deep. He spackled like crazy himself. If I knew then, what I know now…..
Lets just say, his ass would probably be in jail!
I don’t know if my mother had left my father whether I would have found myself in the same boat I am in now or not.
I do think that most women rely on Men for financial support especially after children are in the picture and it plays a big factor in the end. I too was a SAHM for most of my marriage. And I also have some pretty debilitating health issues that are keeping me stuck in limbo right now. I am incapable of holding down a fulltime job. So I do before and after school care for my daughter. We are supporting each other through divorces. When hers is complete, than I shall move forward with mine.
There is no good excuse for cheating…..
But there may be good excuses for chumpiness.
Not that it’s healthy or sane mind you…..
Yes, I am a chump daughter. My mother had an affair and it blew our family to smithereens. No one told us kids what happened. I didn’t find out until I was in my 20’s. What happened to us kids? My older brother went and lived with relatives and now is a raging alcoholic who is going to die soon. My older sister’s hand shook and trembled for years. She died at a young age of cancer. My younger brother has had his troubles too with alcohol, like I have. I’ve been married three times…all to abusive men. I grew up with no sense of self, it took me years to figure out who I was. I thought eating shit sandwiches was the normal fare. Years of therapy has helped but I know I missed out on some of life’s precious moments because all I knew how to do was deal with misery. At this point in time I’m quite happy for the most part.
What’s going on now is my precious and beautiful 34 year old God Child is dying of cancer. They called in Hospice today.
Today my heart is breaking.
You have my deepest sympathies
So terribly sorry, Syringa, for your loss. Sending you love and light.
I’m so sorry, Syringa. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
I’m sorry, Syringa. Many prayers for all of you. You will get through this.
So, so sorry and sad to hear about your God Child. I am praying for peace for her and strength and peace for you and her family. (((HUGS)))
I’m so sorry to hear about your God Child, Syringa.
So sorry Syringa.
My prayers go out for you, your God Child and your family and friends.
Hugs
Jayne x
Thank you friends from Chump Nation.
Syringa-holding you and yours in the light.
x-Meh.
Soooo sorry to hear about your God Child. You are in my prayers.
Parents had a long term marriage. I was from a very large, I mean very large family. They lost a son and my father had an illness. My mother took care of him. Finances went through the floor. It was crazy, really crazy, but I always saw them work through their problems. They had a profound faith in God.
She was engaged several times before she met my father, but she always broke them off. I asked her why? She told me because she knew my father would never leave her and take care of her. Her father died when she was young and obviously had a keen sense of a loyal, faithful man.
Until the end of his life, he always called her his bride. If he ever had an affair, none of us ever knew.
I thought everyone was like this. You marry, have kids, and work it out. You’re his bride.
“Richer, poorer, sickness and health until death do you part”.
NOT
I grew up with an alcoholic father. My mother married him young (16) and moved away from her family to where his family lived. She had no education and we eventually ended up living in a house with a widowed aunt, her sister (never married), their brother (also an alcoholic). They were my dad’s family. My mother stayed because going back to her family wouldn’t have been any better and she had nowhere else to go with 6 kids. My XH’s father was a cheater. Many times my XH would blame his wandering ways on his dad, “I grew up this way and thought this is how I should behave.” “My dad did it, so I thought it was right.” Of course, we all know that cheaters NEVER take responsibility for their own actions .. it’s always someone else’s fault, never theirs. I grew up watching people enable my father, my uncle and my aunt in their alcoholic ways. So, I enabled my XH to cheat because I turned a blind eye to it trying to keep the tattered pieces of my life together. You know what they say, “Sometimes the unknown is scary than that which I know.” Eventually, one tires of eating shit and pretending everything is ok. Sometimes it is just hard to keep smiling. Best thing I ever did was divorce the piece of shit that I found myself hooked to. Sometimes I wish my mom would have done the same so that she could have been happy, but I often wonder where we would have been if we had gone back to her family … living in a car? So, I am grateful that my aunt took us in and gave us some semblance of normalcy, a roof over our heads, a bed to sleep in and food in our bellies. All 6 kids grew up to be contributing members of society, so, all in all, we fared well. All are in stable long-term relationships. I was the only chump of the group, but that all worked out in the end and I am now in a very loving marriage. Took the long way to get here, but I have arrived!
My cheating husband’s father is a cheater. I think he learned that cheating behavior is acceptable because his mother stayed. One of the first things I said to him was “I am NOT your door mat Mother.” I honestly think he thought it would be OK since his mother forgave the behavior. My mother on the other hand is a very strong woman. She left my Dad with two small children ages 3 and 6 and got her education and started a career. I will tell you right now my husband and his sister have absolutely no respect for their mother to this day. 40 years later. She is STILL with him. So, if you are thinking of staying be prepared for your children to think of you as a weakling. The second I consider forgiving my husband I remind myself that it is most important for me to be a positive role model for my daughter. So FUCK HIM I AM DONE AND GONE. I think if you stay you are in essence sending the message to your children that its okay to let someone treat you like shit.
This post is so timely for me. My narc mother died a month ago, so FOO issues are front and center for me right now. Mom cheated on her first husband, to end up pregnant with my dad’s child. She divorces number one to marry my dad. They have three children while both are flirting, cheating, and bedding others continuously, until dad gets another woman pregnant. True to form, he divorces mom and marries OW. I lost track of dad, while he and OW raised four more children, and when I was eight, I heard he had died.
Mom went on to marry number three, a charmer who physically abused us kids, until he left us to marry his OW. Mom’s last victim, number four, widowed her.
How did that history affect me? Besides making me codependent, my first husband was physically abusive, like dear old step-dad, and my second husband is a serial cheater, like mom and dad. I’ve finally got a clue, and “Boundaries” is my new middle name. Oh yeah, chumpiness is my legacy.
Mine were married until the death of one of them. No, they weren’t deliriously 100% happy through each of their 40 years together but, like life, their marriage was up, down, all around – and they were in it for the long haul.
Ex, on the other hand, comes from a hornet’s nest of cheaters.
My parents were the prototype of a loving, depression era couple who were happily married for 50 + years. My W always said my dad reminded her of Jummy Stewart. Great guy and solid as a rock. Mom was too.
OTOH, W’s mom carried on a 10+ year affair with another man. They stayed together and ended up basically hating each other till FIL died about 15 years ago. Pre marriage and early marriage my MIL always use to say stuff like, “Men are basically crap, you better screw them over before they get a chance to screw you over.”
Now she’s told me my wife is crazy and that she loves me (very sincerely). Last night she was over for dinner with my W, son, and I. My son said he would come up and take MIL to dinner soon. She accepted and said, “We have to include (yours truly, Chumpguy).” Don’t know if W heard or not, but MIL wasn’t hiding it.
Go figure.
My parents have been married 54 years. They are happy now BUT my childhood was a mess. No one has ever talked about it but I am fairly certain my father had an affair(s). My parents fought – big, loud, screaming fights – all of the time. I used to hide under the bed with my hands over my ears to try to keep from hearing it. Actually no one ever talked about anything and my brother and I were not allowed to express any negative feelings at all. Both parents smacked us, whipped us with belts, and were verbally abusive. My mother hated me for being my father’s favorite and she adored my brother and clearly favored him over me. I spent my early years knowing that I was not the daughter my mother wanted, expecting the worst, dancing like a monkey for their approval, and believing that people who love you, hurt you. But my parents also tried really hard to give us a better life than they had and when it was good, it was really good. So I learned not to trust anyone or anything and to accept the weird dance of “I will give you things and be good to you until I’m not and you will never know what’s going to happen next.”
I got pregnant as a teen and married to get away from them. Too bad that I chose a guy who thought punching his wife was acceptable behavior. I got out of that marriage only to fall for a man who was exactly like my parents. Alternately loving and so into me – then he was cold and witholding and punishing. I remember clearly thinking that I loved him so much more than he loved me and deciding that that was acceptable – all I should expect as I was such a disappointment to everyone. It makes me sick to read those words right now.
I have been in therapy for almost two years and am now 4 months out from the separation/move into my own home. My relationship with my parents is the best it’s ever been because I told them how I felt growing up and they were so sorry, so remoreseful, they took responsibility and we have talked about it a lot. They have been there for me every step of the way while my life was disintegrating. That’s been a very unexpected but deeply appreciated gift. Therapy has helped me unravel a lot of this and to start valuing myself and understanding that I am not what bad people reflect back to me. I have boundaries that grow stronger every day. I have found the words and the courage to speak my truth and to be truly authentic. I am still uncomfortable with conflict and confrontations but I am learning.
I don’t think the infidelity (suspected, anyway) is what made me so willing to tolerate horrible treatment by my partners. It’s all of it, the totality of what I grew up seeing and believing about love – and about my own worth (or lack of worth, rather) – that did it.
My father was a Narcissistic Sociopath. Literally. He beat us daily – physically and verbally. My mother was a chump insofar as staying around him for 24 years (she had to become my father’s religion when she married him). Though my mother was angry all the time, she was a hard worker and supported our family (6 kids) financially throughout most of those years. My father had woman after woman – even eventually moving in with one of them and coming occasionally to see us. My mother went to the religious group they were involved with – at times black and blue – to talk with them about leaving – they always told her to stay. Eventually, when I was 17, my mother divorced my father. He died at 56 of cancer from smoking/drinking incessantly. He was unrepentant, unapologetic – except for wanting (on his deathbed) to “read us” the 12 step program “step” he was on …. wave his hands around in the air (from his hospital bed) and tell us how “sorry he was for all that stuff”.
Anyway…. When I was 24 I met a man…. I converted to his religion (!), thought he was SO different from my father (my father was overt, this man was covert) and promptly had 3 kids in a row – all 18 mos apart. Lived for 21 years with a man with no conscience and no empathy who was high up in the church. I was reduced to an opinionless – ill woman. I was on 5 prescription drugs to get through a day – exhusband told me how much I needed them. I started with Fibromyalgia, then Chronic Fatigue Syndrome,,,, lupus, MS and eventually breast cancer. THEN I woke up. I left. I found out later that my exhusband cheated – oh yes – with men. Now THAT might have been why he was never attracted to me???? I lived in SILENT TREATMENT…. for many many years. The last 11 years of the marriage he never touched me…. But I digress….
Interestingly – my youngest daughter was 17, just like me. After getting out of all the religiosity and moving into town – (and living in the middle of nowhere all the time – isolation was a biggie with him) – myself and my kids kinda went hog-wild for a few years. Now my son is 29, daughter 27 and 25 year old youngest. I left 10 years ago now. Son I am very concerned is like father – seems to be without conscience? uses young women – lives with each of them in ‘days’ after meeting them. He had a child with an escort girl… (*sigh*… that one broke my heart), and I’ve never met the child – though he would be about 5 by now. My two daughters…. the youngest is the strong one in relationships – she pretty much lords it over the boyfriends and she’s had many of them. My middle daughter I fear will be a chump. She has a bleeding heart for her father, and desires guys who are pretty much narcissistic idiots. Anyway – none of my 3 kids are married – nor do they want to be. After how they grew up. I have been completely single now about 5 years and I will never again be in relationships like I have known all my life. I’m 55 and figure I have about 20 years left of being really active – and I plan on living my life. I am off all prescription drugs…. I got rid of the cancer naturally (no chemo or radiation) – actually – I named the Breast Lump “Dean”…. which was great when it disappeared…. that man was truly a CANCER in my life. I went back to school for Alternative (Natural) health…. started my own business about 10 years ago – Nutrition/coaching, etc…. I’ve been free of FM, CFS, Lupus, MS and Cancer for 10 years. Thank God…. and NEVER AGAIN will I allow that shit in my life. NO CHUMP HERE. Stick a fork in me, I’m done.
My parents are still together after 42 years. Happily… probably not. I know my mom wants more couple time. My dad is content though in his garage. I do think they are very influential on my passive-agressive nature. My family is very passive and in being so not a lot of things bother us. If they do we tend to keep them bottled up until… BOOM! Can’t stand it any more.
I can see growing up that way as being MY part of being a chump. I didn’t stand up for myself when he displayed stupid behavior or I’d let him talk his way out of it even though I wasn’t fully satisfied with the resolution (if there ever was one). I let it eat away at me until BOOM… another incident of his wanting kibbles and cake to which I gave into… again.
I forgot to mention that my cheater was the son of a cheater. So the fruit didn’t fall far from the tree. My FIL ran off with his 17 years younger secretary who was also married at the time. They actually had a very nice life, wintering in Hawaii, traveling the world. Had money and lived in a nice house while my chumped MIL died alone in a nursing home of a brain tumor at 51. I did see some Karma though. On my FIL’s death bed all he could do was cry out for his ex wife, calling her name over and over. Telling her that he was finally coming to be with her. My current MIL had to go to counseling for that one.
“On my FIL’s death bed all he could do was cry out for his ex wife, calling her name over and over. Telling her that he was finally coming to be with her.”
Syringa, I’ll bet your Chumped MIL was somewhere going, “No. No, you’re not.”
“Syringa, I’ll bet your Chumped MIL was somewhere going, “No. No, you’re not.”
Good one, I can only hope to haunt my ex with that knowledge, should I happen to go first…
That is sad about your mil.
I do love to hear about the Karma Bus hitting a whore in the ass though. Especially after all those years. Bet she didn’t see that one coming. Still laughing over that one.
Yeah, I laughed as well, mainly because I’ve heard about that happening quite a few times.
Both his and my parents are long term married. His are well over fifty years of visible Roman Catholic classic lifestyle, and mine were married 56 years before my father passed away. However, I can see now this is not all it appears to be. My in laws, who have shut me out after their prize winning first born son walked out on our 33 year marriage, are oblivious to reality and all his faults, and apparently don’t know about some really nuclear holocost type stuff he’s done, starting (that I now know of directly from the victim) when he was only 13 years old. Finding out about this stuff, while making me ill, did help me understand this man was fucked up long before I met him, and this was written in the stars. . I’ve gone from the much appreciated DIL to persona non grata in an instant.
And I can now see my own family part in this… I am a classic middle child cliche, the pleaser, the peacekeeper, blah, blah… For example, my older brother regularly screwed up big time, would disappear for a couple weeks, then call in for a ride home. I was sent along to be a buffer, “so your father doesn’t kill him before he gets home” so I learned how to spackle and compensate and make my needs smaller from the get go. My parents also never fought in front of us, so I never learned to fight fairly and not be afraid of conflict, and no teasing of any kind was ever allowed in my home, so when my STBX would lob those nasty barbs, followed by the classic “just kidding”, and the inevitable “you’re too sensitive”. I had no idea what was going on. I just tried to follow the tried and true formula: work harder, be better, be sweeter, don’t make waves, blah, blah.
I had no idea there was so much nastiness in the world, let alone the pure manipulative evil of a narcissistic, entitled, and deeply flawed spouse.
My Mother and I are “Poster Chumps” for the RIC !
They told us we would forget. They lied!
My Mother found her peace. It came from the gift of diminished capacity.
Maybe it’s hereditary !