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Dear Chump Lady, My wife had an affair with her therapist

Dear Chump Lady,

Fifteen years ago, my wife confessed to an affair she had with her “Christian” psychotherapist which had ended 4 years prior to confessing it to me. She trickle-truthed me and first said that the affair had lasted about three years, but then recently said that the affair had lasted about 6 years. She became pregnant during that time and I recently conducted a DNA test to verify that our child was truly mine. (She is). She was furious about my sleuthing. She insists that although they were sexual, intercourse never occurred. She also believes that since she was “groomed and manipulated” by a professional that she is not responsible for what occurred, and would not have gone down that road had she not been vulnerable to his “emotional brainwashing.” Our marriage counselor seems to agree with this point of view.

I know now that back then I settled, wanting to save my family, and wanting to save my child from a broken home. I made a decision that I felt was right, but now I think it wasn’t right for me.

Of course we have been through hell trying to reconcile and have a decent marriage. We have been through marriage counseling, pastoral counseling, etc. I know my wife feels terrible shame and guilt. She wants to “move on”. I can’t seem to. Sometimes I feel like a jerk for talking about the whole ugly mess, like I can’t forgive. Most of the time we do well together. We are in our mid-fifties. To divorce now would be a financial and emotional catastrophe for me. Am I being super chump?

By the way the therapist was sued by another client and was forced to give up his license to practice.


Dear Thomas,

We have a name for “sinister ministers” and Jesus cheaters, but we need to come up with another one for lecherous shrinks. Can you believe I get more than a solitary “my spouse had an affair with their shrink” letter? I’ve gotten quite a few — another one this week in fact. And there are several people in Chump Nation whose ex’s were either therapists or had affairs with them. Uneffingbelievable. I’m glad this one got defrocked or had his sofa taken away or whatever it is they do to unethical therapists.

But about your marriage — “trickle truth”? No, you mean your wife LIED to you for years about the length of her affair and only recently admitted it was SIX years long? And you had to paternity test your kid? Yeah, no wonder you’re reeling. How long ago was “recently”? That’s your latest D-Day. It’s bad enough wondering if your marriage was a sham, but now you wonder how much of your hard fought reconciliation was a sham as well. Your grief is totally understandable.

Unless you’re a cheater, and then a missing three years is like loose change lost under the sofa cushion. Oh that?

Yeah THAT. YEARS of my life. Wondering if my daughter shares my DNA. Yes, THAT.

You’re supposed to “move on”? With what? That stellar ownership of her shit that she’s displaying?

Your problem isn’t that you can’t forgive — your problem is that you’ve been manipulated from knowing the truth about your marriage. Entire YEARS of it.

First off, and this is just my chump opinion, as someone who is not a defrocked Christian therapist, but a snarky blogger with a masters degree in African history — conducting a double life for SIX YEARS makes you a disordered wing nut. Seriously, six whole years of instigating a sexual affair and lying about it, hiding it, coming home to you, having sex with you, getting pregnant, having your child, letting you invest in that family, chumping you for 2,190 days takes some serious chops. Imagine doing anything for 2,190 days. You gotta be practiced at deceit to pull that off.

Oh, but she was “groomed and manipulated” by a professional. Way to take responsibility there! The Devil Made Me Do It. (Or the Christian shrink).

Newsflash for your wife — I too was groomed and manipulated by a professional! I too was “emotionally brainwashed” and vulnerable. I was a single mother — what’s your wife got on vulnerable? Some pesky FOO issues? And I had ZERO roadblocks for falling in love with that cheating freak — I was single. He was single (legally, anyway). And yet I can recall the entire relationship with clarity, that I had complete AGENCY. I made the best decisions with what I knew at the time.

Your wife KNEW she was married. There should’ve been ding! ding! ding! sirens going off in her head about having sex with another man. She had enough wherewithal to keep it a secret from you. For six years. And then another four years before she “confessed” it. She wasn’t some cheater cyborg and he held the remote control — she knew exactly what she was doing. She went back for seconds and thirds and fourths. She needs to own that.

Moreover, I don’t care how charismatic someone is, how manipulative — unless he held a gun to her head or physically coerced her in some way (for SIX YEARS) — he did not control her. She AGREED to it. And that’s on her.

She’s just spinning the bullshit that every cheater spins that She’s the Real Victim Here. See, then you can’t get mad at her! It’s the self pity channel. Poor sausage.

Thomas, the reason your reconciliation sucks is that you’ve got genuine imitation Naugahyde remorse instead of real remorse. True remorse requires OWNING what you did. Your wife has a butt load of excuses for why she is not responsible. He made me do it! Okay, I DID it, BUT I had reasons! Reasons that make me seem very sad and vulnerable and broken and taken advantage of.

NO. The person who was taken advantage of, Thomas, was YOU.

I’m sorry your marriage counselor is buying her poor widdle cheater, she knows not what she does, routine. Your counselor doesn’t have to spend the rest of his life with her, you do.

Divorce is a financial and emotional catastrophe? Yeah and so? You’re talking to Chump Nation, Thomas. We’ve lived it. And we’ve rebuilt and we have our sanity to show for it. And many of us have shiny new lives and some of us have shiny new partners who don’t cheat on us! It’s your choice and your life. If you want to stay in limbo with a remorseless cheater that’s up to you. But Dude, she’s not one bit sorry. Stop kidding yourself.

Ask Chump Lady

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  • She’s only sorry that she got caught. If she had any regrets – it would have ended early on.

    6 years is a very very long mistake.
    She doesn’t give a rats ass about anyone but herself.
    It is convienent to stay married to you – you are useful to her…..until another AP comes along.

    You will never ever EVER be able to trust this person again.

    I was beyond financially ruined when I walked away from my Sinister Minister cheater pants stbx – no regrets.
    Always better sooner than later.
    I wasted years.

    Time to think about your life and what you require in a marriage – such as similar morals and values in a partner.

    • Yeah, and if/when she has another affair, it’ll be your fault because you could not forgive her or
      ‘move on”. I say cut your losses now and start a new life without her. It’s scary and tough at times, but SO worth it!

  • Just reading this letter made me feel sick, anguish, deja vu! Those endless lies. The self-pity channel she is stuck on! Listen to what Chump Lady tells you- RUN, do not walk to a better life. You deserve better than this. Any marriage counselor who lets your wife get away with blaming someone else (you, the previous therapist, etc.) has never been cheated on. The blaming is the biggest red flag ever! It tells you that your wife has distorted thinking…unfixable. Sorry!

  • Thomas, during the time your wife was cheating she was titillated by living a double life. It turned her on, knowing she had that secret and that power. She might be really sorry now, but that doesn’t make it go away and can’t undo it.

    And whether she had sex with him or not is irrelevant (but she more than likely did). Remember cheaters generally admit to what they think they have to and no more. She may have wanted to come clean with you, but has her limits!

    I think what you’re finding out about yourself is that infidelity is a deal breaker for you. That’s the conclusion that most of us come to eventually. We know that we can’t move on, can’t get over it, can’t forgive or forget. That’s not our fault — it’s theirs.

    Are you in individual counseling? If not, find a good therapist. Start talking to someone about how you see your future with this woman. Will things improve? It’s kinda unlikely.

    Sadly most of us have suffered financially (or been destroyed financially) due to our selfish cheaters. That’s a fact about infidelity: there are no winners.

    Visualize your future. Do you deserve better? It’s a gut wrenching decision, but one that needs to be made.

    We’re here for you if you need us. We also use the Forum section to chat amongst ourselves. Feel free to join us there.

  • I truly get this, Thomas, you want to believe that what you have is real. But then all the evidence just keeps piling up. Your brain no longer shuts up, though, and the life you are living is Hell. That is your gut,Thomas, and you should be listening to it. I dragged myself home for years thinking I could make my home perfect…. Kids were great! Job was great! Home was great! My spouse? Not so much. I could never fix that, and I stayed thinking I could! That one day he would realize how great he had it. That he would choose me. That he would choose his family. And then one day he just walked out. On me, our three kids, the dog, the cats, the house, the property, the cars, a truck, the boat, the bills, the holidays, the celebrations, the day in and out of married life. He was never committed to our marriage, you see. He was loyal only to what he wanted. Your wife continually shows you who she is. My guess!?!? You now recognize you deserve better. Negotiate a fair settlement. Provide for your loving daughter. But don’t waste one more day with someone who has spent the last however many years of your life lying to you. You deserve to be happy and if your wife is anything like my ex your marriage has “made little sense.” Take a hard look at your years together. I am sure there have been small significant moments where you have thought Who Is This!?!? Or Who Does That!?! It’s scary to leave, I get that too, but IMHO it’s the only way you are going to be happy. I hope your letter leads you on a new journey, it is one well worth choosing.

    • And this is a really good point Thomas. You have tried really hard to keep this marriage going (and you believe your wife has tried really hard in her ‘attempt’ at reconciliation) BUT, you are not the only one who can decide whether the marriage survives. Your wife has proven to you that she was prepared to risk your marriage for 6 years, (and then another15 years risking it by not being straight and honest with you) she did the mental gymnastics required to make that OK for her. You have NO guarantees she isn’t going to bail at some point in the future, your marriage vows were meant to be the guarantee she wouldn’t emotionally bail first time around. You are investing your heart, life and future in someone who hasn’t even accepted responsibility, preferring to blame the AP, and even basic rule number one in the reconciliation industry is for the cheater to take responsibility. Please imagine how dreadful choking down all these shit sandwiches for her to decide it’s all been too much hard work, or she finds another ‘special friend’ to leave you for this time.

  • Question: during those 6 years was your wife incapable of running her own life? Was she a teenager or a child who needed someone to take care of her, make decisions for her, look out for her best interests and didn’t? Is she mentally incompetent, with a low IQ or mental disorder that prohibits her from making rational decisions? During the brainwashing was she isolated from friends and family, unable to contact anyone from Jamestown? In short, would she be declared unable to run her own life in a court of law? If not, if during this time she took the kids to school, bought a car, went to work, etc. than the blame goes on her.

    I’m not denying there are sick, manipulative people out there. There are people who are so charismatic they can convince other people to commit suicide, rob banks, kill people who are Jewish. But the defense of being ordered to do something therefore you’re innocent doesn’t hold up. I feel pity for her if she really was manipulated and if you want to forgive her, than find. But I’m not about to march up to a concentration camp survivor and demand they help the poor Nazi who was tricked into doing awful things and feels such horrible guilt. And I’m not going to demand that you help her either.

  • Thomas,

    I feel your pain. They always have a lot of excuses and blame everyone but themselves. My wife blamed me for making her mad or said she was very unhappy with me “at the time: so therefore it made it okay for her to have 3 year affair with another married man.

    I read that women in their early 30s are at their sexual peek and bored with their marriage. In my book that is no excuse but some might argue at that point their impulse control is really lousy and that causes them to stray. Okay that is women in their 30s. But women in their late 40s to late 50s like your wife and mine They can’t use that excuse. Something is fundamental wrong with them. My wife is almost 51 and I just found out last May.

    I am not sure if your wife’s affair ended a long time ago and she is just now coming clean or if its still on going or was recently on going. I might be missing that in your message. But my wife’s was still on going at 50 years old. That is seriously messed up.

    She says “Just no I was very unhappy with you when it started so that made it okay for me to go to him” I said what the hell? “If you want to pretend you are single and see other men be an adult and file for divorce first then when it is final see another man. Don’t string me along for 3 years telling me I have nothing to worry about and that you love me”

    That is basically how it went down for me. I knew something wasn’t right but I didn’t want to face the truth it was too painful. When she finally told me boy did I lose it. But I had come to realize that she is very disordered emotionally and probably mentally. She can not comprehend the damage she has caused. I have learned its like trying to reason with a toddler.

    I bet your wife just tunes you out or gives short and vague meaningless answers when you try to get to the bottom of this. Mine did and it was very frustrating. Now when I think of it she was basically just being very childish. An adult acknowledges what they did and owns up to it. A child denies it and down plays it because they don’t want to be in trouble.

    anyway I had to accept that I never really knew my wife like i thought I did. I only knew the mask she was putting on for me. She goes to church 2 times a week and reads the bible at home. She is a complete fraud. It really makes me sad and hurt knowing that I wasted so many years with a fraud. Up until 2 years ago I never would had considered she was this kind of person. She played a good act, but now I look back to the beganning of our relationship and i see a lot of red flags I ignored. I honestly believe this had been going on a lot longer than 3 years with other men. It really hurts.

    • Fred–I feel for you. My husband (though I’m filing Monday morning come hell or high water) blamed his affair on, wait for this…. he became depressed that I collected and bought too many things and he likes an empty house. I kid you not. I admit I have more books & collections than most, but THAT led him to seduce a woman 30 years his junior?? When I confided sadly to him that I had never really felt cherished by him in our 24-year relationship, he responded that my collecting things must have impacted his feelings more than he realized.

      Blame-shifting is to cheaters what marshmallows are to s’mores. My main consolation is that I have saved all my loser’s texts and emails, and it is ALL going into a a novel at some point.

      I’m sorry you are hurting.

      • LOL,

        I think I am going to put together a list of the most stupid shit cheaters say and add it to a stand up comedy routine. I have a long list of crap my wife made up. Its like they don’t even try to come up with something better.

        I am doing okay now. I have ups and downs. kind of down the last couple days but its getting better. Thank you for your kind words I appreciate it.

        • Fred, my heart goes out to you. I just turned 50 and was cheated on by my husband of 20 years. I found out in January and it is now November and it is still painful sometimes but I have worked a lot on my issues in order to not let this happen again, but also to heal myself. It takes a lot of work but you HAVE to do it or else the chatter in your head can devastate you. By “work” I mean therapy (I have done mine online because of what I have read about therapists here – I did a very helpful course on recovering from narcissistic abuse) and other types of “therapy” such as reading CL to keep you strong and focused, recovering friends from the past (talking about my stupid cheater at the beginning was very helpful but now I feel it wastes my time and energy with my friends so I just enjoy them), exercise, going back to the things I loved to do but also doing new things, moving furniture around, redecorating if you can afford to, etc. Also, doing the exact opposite of what you would do with your cheater helps a lot! So, for example, I started sleeping on the other side of the bed, wearing different clothes (got rid of anything that he liked or noticed), I make meals that he would hate and I would love, etc. etc. The point is to change your routines to your liking and get back to the essence of who you are, because cheaters not only ruin the lives we thought we had but also change us into the worst versions of ourselves….We can´t let them win that. We have to take over and reclaim ourselves. It is a battle with our inner demons too…but we can do it. You can do it. And if you are a stand up comedian, you have the best tool of all which is laughter! That is awesome…

          • What on line program for narcisstic abuse recovery did you do? Im curious bc I have been thinking about doing one but Im concerned abt it’s legitimacy. The one I am looking at is by Melanie Tonia Evans. Thanks in advance!

      • Oh wow, Tempest, we should find a way to collaborate! I have saved emails, texts, pics I took from his Iphone of their lust for each other with his 25yo stripper OW (just found out a couple weeks ago that she was a stripper….from her!…..he was 50 at the time) AND audio once I knew he was a RAT! My reason for doing all of this is because I felt like someday I would have to prove myself or show proof of what a POS, lying, cheater he is. He is so good at being a salesman that he can easily dupe/sell many people! Back to saving all this crap…….I now would love to someday put it all together into one giant cheater book, including the audio! (though not sure of the legalities of it all).
        It’s been a little over 2 years from D-Day and a little over 1 year of me leaving (and him apparently happy about it bc unlike a lot of folks here, he never looked back). Oh yea, now he has a protection order on the stripper and dating a 22 yr old now……he is now 53! Parents watch your daughters!! There is a perv on the loose in Oklahoma but he’ll travel anywhere to meet; distance is not a deterrent for him! I have gone from being so sad and broken to full of so much hate for him I don’t know what to do with it besides take out a billboard announcing what a sicko he is or getting a short clip on a news channel! Ahhhhhhh…..this felt good to unleash! 🙂

    • Tempest says- I think CL could make a great cartoon of this- “he responded that my collecting things must have impacted his feelings more than he realized.” Ha ha. It’s untangling the skein etc to try and work out if this is from some real emotional deficit or just cheater lying but it’s so funny read cold. Of course I know that in the heat of the horribleness, none of this stuff is funny but it’s a sign of healing to be able to laugh at the crazy.

      My XH said it was “because I’d left the door open” that he had relationship with OW. In some ways this is true… I was showing him the door by enforcing boundaries due to his untreated alcoholism and related chaos which included porn and prostitutes. He chose to carry on with chaos rather than deal with his issues. The OW is still there, but so is the drinking and chaos (witness late night texts etc to me-ignored of course).I’ve been away from him for a year and divorced so I don’t have to hear those self-pitying one-liners anymore. Good luck with filing and going forward.

    • Boy does that sound familiar, Fred.
      My first wife, now a “certified spiritual counselor” was hooking up with strangers for years, as well as her therapist.
      She is just excellent at convincing folks she is so spiritually evolved. She is a complete fraud, as well.
      I hope you get out.

    • Fred, I am not sure of the validity of those studies saying a woman’s libido peaks in her early thirties. That may be true in some hermetically sealed environment, but most of the women I know who are that age are deeply engaged with either small children or making a living or looking for a partner. It would make sense biologically that the peak of libido woutd occur in the late teens or early 20s when woman historically began to have children–libido being an asset for continuing the species. But I think it’s difficult for most women to focus on their sex drive when they are working full or part-time and taking care of a family. Now cheaters, of course, are another story.

      In any case, I don’t think li’s llibido or sex drive that fuels cheating. I think entitlement and the pleasure of power and control over others is the far bigger driver. I know the Jackass loved it, loved it, loved it when he could talk about his MOW and I didn’t know they were in an affair. I know he loved it when i texted or called and he didn’t return the communication. He has a long history of enjoying the “competition” with a man who doesn’t know his wife is cheating. He loves the rush of getting someone to say “I love you” and the rush at the end of knowing that the same person has been devastated. I think sex for these folks is just a pleasurable way of keeping score. So sorry, Fred, that you’ve had the terrible experience of betrayal. Wishing you blue skies ahead.

      • ‘keeping score’ – so true. Score of what or why, God knows. I really enjoy board and card games, but I can’t see what pleasure there’d be in playing scrabble with someone who doesn’t even know they’ve got a set of letter tiles in front of them! And cheaters enjoy it even more if you don’t get dealt the letter tiles!

    • “I read that women in their early 30s are at their sexual peek and bored with their marriage. In my book that is no excuse but some might argue at that point their impulse control is really lousy and that causes them to stray. Okay that is women in their 30s. But women in their late 40s to late 50s like your wife and mine They can’t use that excuse.”

      Oh HELL no. I am 34, and when I started to get bored with my sex life a year or two ago I engaged with my husband to spice things up and turn up the heat. We had so much fun that he decided HIS sex life needed more spicing up, and he went out and had an affair. So this idea that women in their early 30s have lousy impulse control because their sexual motors are revving up is complete, utter bullshit. I made the choice to direct my sexual energy toward my husband, as spouses of any age should do. Wherever you read the excuse that women in their early 30s are just too horny to control themselves, please send them a giant eye roll from me.

    • Women do not hit their sexual peak in their early 30’s! Where do you get that? Just had to take issue with that. What about all that business of “Cougars”! Those are typically women in their 40’s out looking for younger men who can keep up with them…sexually!! No. Women do not peak at 30.

  • Agreed. If you reconcile, you are leaving yourself and your kida open to further abuse. Don’t think for one second your stbx’s narcissism won’t damage your kids. Adultery is abuse, period. And a deal breaker. As CL points out, you have AGENCY here. Yep, my kid comes from a ‘broken’ home, mostly because I got Chumped then dumped, but also because I could not live with reconciling on the grounds of naugahyde remorsebut she isn’t broken herself. Staying with a cheater would have broken her and I both, however, ant set a good example. Bless her heart, my DD is chumpy-she is kind and loving and trusting, but has learned to stick up for herself, when people are exhibiting toxic behavior, and how to,protect herself, and she couldn’t have done that if her family had remained ‘intact’.

    I am glad the therapist was struck off-tarred and feathered is too good for people like that. And cheaters.

    Take care, and love to Chump Nation!


  • I had a bad childhood and that is why I robbed that bank. But I am really, really really sorry I did it and, no, I can’t give any of the money back ’cause I spent it. But that guy I hung out with….he talked me into it. I would NEVER have done on my own. Well, really I just drove the getaway car. I mean I wasn’t a real bad person, I was just lead down the wrong path. You are getting on my nerves bringing it up all the time. Ok. Ok. it was more than one bank but that was years ago. I haven’t robbed a bank in ages. Why do you keep referring to me as a crook? That other guy did jail time so he is the crook. I was just along for the ride.
    Just sayin’.

  • If that therapist had a backing it was probably the AAMFT or something similar, which means that he was defrocked because he committed adultery with a client., multiple clients in fact. My husband found out what the AAMFT thinks about adultery in their therapists and it’s not considered an ethical violation unless it happens with a client. Do you know when that therapist got defrocked? You said he was reported by another client, which means he was sleeping around with multiple clients, not just your wife and if you piece the time frame back together I bet there’d probably be some overlap in there somewhere.

    “She insists that although they were sexual, intercourse never occurred. She also believes that since she was “groomed and manipulated” by a professional that she is not responsible for what occurred, and would not have gone down that road had she not been vulnerable to his “emotional brainwashing.””

    Yea, I don’t buy for a second that they were sexual but didn’t have sex. That’s her trying to play it off as “it wasn’t that bad” and you already know that the therapist lost his license, which would mean that he was caught having sex with clients. What, so he didn’t have sex with her and only had sex with who knows how many others? That his emotional brainwashing stopped short of sex? Yea right.

    Let’s do the math here. You are both in your mid 50s. Let’s say she’s 55. She confessed 15 years ago to an affair, which would put her at 40. She says that affair ended 4 years prior to confessing, which puts her at 36. She first said it lasted 3 years, she’s 33, then she said it was for 6 years, which puts her at 30 when the affair supposedly started. How old were you when you got married? It’s possible you were in the roughly half of marriages during the 50s/60s where the bride was 19 and the groom something like 20 or 21. It’s possible you were in the other half that was older. My guess is that you probably hadn’t been married that long. If your wife didn’t confess about the affair with the first therapist until years after the fact, were you in marriage counseling with that psycho therapist when she was 30 or was that her own individual therapist?

    She got pregnant between the ages of 30 and 36 (based on the ages above) when her affair was ongoing and you DNA tested your child. You’ve also spent the last 15 YEARS in reconciliation. 15 years and she just now says it was 6 years instead of 3?? 15 years of reconciliation after you found out about her first affair and she’s STILL not telling you the truth. This isn’t something that just recently happened last week. You’ve put in 15 years of your life into a false reconciliation. True reconciliation takes two and complete honesty needs to be on the table in order for healing. How was your healing going with thinking the affair was 3 years? And now it’s 6?! Those 15 years were supposed to be years used for your healing and your healing as a couple and because she wasn’t honest she’s making you start all over again. Total bullshit.

    Whether you divorce is up to you. The costs are scary, yes. But it doesn’t sound like you truly want to play the RIC game anymore and considering she hasn’t been honest with you, for minimally 25 years, it really doesn’t sound like you have much to go off of.

    • I noticed another thing: “She trickle-truthed me and first said that the affair had lasted about three years, but then recently said that the affair had lasted about 6 years.”

      Notice the pattern of “ABOUT 3 years” and “ABOUT 6 years?” If “about 3” really meant 6 years, what does “about 6 years” really mean? 9? 12? It sounds like she’s still rounding the years and she’s not rounding down…

  • Why are cheaters so surprised when we don’t believe them after we find out who they are? Paternity testing your child was a perfectly logical action after you found out about her actions and the time table. Mine couldn’t believe that i went ahead and had myself tested for STD’s after I found out about his admitted EA.

    • Funny how cheaters can’t connect the dots that them saying it was “only” an EA is not enough. Now, why would anyone not take their word at that? Maybe it was the months or years of lying? Maybe.

  • Thomas,

    I hear a lot of grief in your letter. You can’t move on because you are still reeling from all the catastrophic losses caused by your wife’s moral failures. Six years! Six years of lies; that’s indicative of MAJOR character issues. It is not wise to trust a proven liar.

    My heart goes out to you. I am glad to hear that this therapist lost his license as he has no business practicing after such abuse of power. How wicked! And to bill himself as a “Christian” counselor on top of that! The arrogance!!! (Btw, my ex-wife billed herself as a “Christian” marriage counselor while she was still cheating on me and lying…arrogance seems to be rampant in Cheaterville).

    As a reforming chump and a pastor, I write about what healthy forgiveness looks like on my blog. I am hard about not utilizing “forgiveness” as a way to sweep evil under the rug. In my opinion, that is like trying to pretend the emperor has no clothes. What took place was devastating! Spiritually speaking, our souls were raped by our cheating spouses (see The road to recovery from that is not a one-off “I forgive you” like all you did was step on my toe. It is a long grief and forgiveness process because it is a DEEP wound. We don’t expect our bodies to heal from a three inch deep wound over night…why do we expect our souls to do so?

    I hear fear about the future at the end of your letter. Financially and emotionally devastating. As someone who has made it out to the other side, I can testify that divorce is not the worst option when faced with a marriage that continues to be ravaged by deceit (which you called “trickle truth”) and years of infidelity. How many D-Days are acceptable to you? Do you want to live in constant fear of contracting an STD? By staying, you are making a bet those things won’t happen on someone who has proven she is a bad bet (as demonstrated by minimally SIX YEARS of cheating).

    Furthermore, Jesus Himself gives us the option to divorce in such circumstances (Mt 19:9), and God divorces Israel over multiple, unrepentant affairs (see Jeremiah 3:8). Divorce–while a hard choice to make–can be an ending for a new and more wonderful beginning.

    Hugs to you, brother! May God grant you courage to move forward in this awful situation. You do not deserve to be treated with such contempt. Something better is ahead, I do believe, if you are willing to step forward in faith!


  • I think these therapists market themselves as Christian meaning – Don’t judge me – not meaning I live and work according to Christian principles.

    Thomas Im sorry that you are in this situation. My best advice would be get out and don’t look back. All the best to you from me.

  • Divorce might be financially devastating – until you realise the very, very real potential situation of her lining up her ducks, squirrelling away YOUR hard earned money, then going for the jugular in a divorce later on, leaving you homeless and destitute, to pay for her fucking her OMs – when she finally gets bored of marriage or finds another victim who can provide for her better.
    Don’t ever think for a second that she wouldn’t do this – she’s proven she can lie through her teeth for years with no conscience.
    Unless she is mentally incompetent, there are no excuses or blameshifting whatsoever that will take the blame off her past behaviour, and therefore she needs to grow the fuck up.
    They also had sex.

  • I disagree here. Therapists have an immense power over their clients. Someone who goes to one for a mental illness can be manipulated. So I don’t think it’s refusing to take responsibility for your wife to blame her therapist.

    There may be other issues in your relationship – her lying about how long the affair lasted is a big violation of your trust. Also, although she wants to move on, I think she needs to have some empathy for you and how hard it is for you. You’re not a jerk for wanting to talk about it, that’s what people do.

    Is she sorry she lied about the length of the affair?

    I don’t think it’s a slam dunk, I do give her more of a pass for having gone to a predatory therapist.

    Still, it may be that for all the good will in the world, you can’t get over what happened. That’s something you’re going to have to work out.

    If divorce is a financial and emotional catastrophe for you, don’t do it.

    Do keep getting counseling. Do think about protecting yourself financially.

    • I’ve noticed with your posts you always begin with defending the actions of cheaters and their blameshifting crap.
      I don’t buy it for one second – and its extremely disrespectful to those who have lost everything due to the actions of these sick fucks who cheated on us.

    • Diana L–You don’t get a pass for sleeping with your therapist for SIX YEARS. Nor is the wife truly sorry–she’s sorry for the consequences only.

      Sorry, Thomas, I’m in the middle of b*llshit faux regret from my soon-to-be-X and it is NO FUN. Skip that step and go directly to WIN.

    • Isn’t that kind of like arguing that Gary Ridgway is worse than Susan Atkins because she preformed murders while being manipulated while he did them just because he wanted to? If you’re the kind of person who wants to rank killers based on motivation, number, brutality, etc. than go ahead. But I think the relevant point for the victims is that they were killed.

  • Hi Thomas,

    I had a similar situation to yours.

    My STBX had an affair with my doula’s best friend. This doula and my childcare provider all knew about the affair for years. I felt their contempt and never understood. This OW/best friend was the president of the board of my doula’s birth education organization whose mission it was to support pregnant women, new mothers and families. This OW is on video saying that they provide “safe and supportive community network” at the very same time she was making out with my stbx at fundraisers while I cared for my child. While my doula and she discussed her affair, plotting her next steps.

    Your cheating wife’s therapist, like these birth monsters, use their mission to act in antithesis to it. They are predators acting at the height of corruption. Perfidious. HOWEVER, my stbx was the one to let this pack of wolves ravage and rape me and my son. HE IS RESPONSIBLE.

    There were many excuses. All bullshit.

    These people CHOSE. They had many choices. They made longstanding deliberate decisions that damaged my and my son’s life for five years. THEY HAVE SKIPPED AWAY FREELY. I was left, emotionally and financially devastated.

    Although I now sleep in my living room and am far from my career goals, I am much much better off. I have my soul intact and real hope for myself and my child. I will make it. Every day gets a bit better and one day I will thrive and not look back.

    Ask yourself: Don’t I deserve to be with someone who respects me? Why have I tolerated such horrible treatment by someone who is supposed to care for me and protect what we have? What kind of person can look themselves in the mirror and sleep, year after year, knowing the damaging secrets they are harboring?

    Your wife is an entitled horror show. I too had an abusive childhood, furthermore, I was also raised in an orthodox Jewish community and knew I did not fit in and had to get out, but had no bridge. Life was damn hard, I was so alone, but I did not learn to fuck people over as a result. I learned the opposite. To help others. To be honest. You deserve a better partner in life. The one you have now is a piece of shit.

    Get out and get a life. CL is so right. That is why I keep reading here. She and everyone here who have been cheated on ring true. Listen to yourself. Don’t be afraid. The hard part is actually over. You know the reality.

    Get a lawyer and don’t say a word until you have a plan. Then move on it. That is the kindest best advice I have gotten from this blog that I repeat to you. Listen to yourself. Your discomfort is your best friend.

  • “To divorce now would be a financial and emotional catastrophe for me. Am I being super chump?”

    This is what caught my attention the most, so in the famous words of Ann Landers, you need to ask yourself, “Am I better off with or without her?”

    What ever you choose, we, at Chump Nation, will always be here for YOU.

    Yes, you’ve been chumped, no question, and we all know the incredible, devastating pain that comes with infidelity.

  • Thomas,

    Please know that you will survive the emotional and financial turmoil of divorce. You deserve someone who respects you!

    On a complete side note, thank you to my old therapist in Michigan. He asked my ex to leave the room so that he could talk to me alone within 15 minutes of meeting us. He looked me straight in the eyes and told me that he would NEVER change and that I deserved a true partner. It took my another year to leave, but his words never left me. Thank you to the therapists who get it.

    Thomas, I wish you all the best and will be praying for you.

  • I could see someone in an overwhelming emotional crisis maybe being manipulated by a sociopathic therapist into having sex once. But SIX YEARS? No way. The wife AND the therapist are both disordered, and for both, cheating and lying are a way of life, not an aberration or something that was coerced.

    • Thank you chump lady for whatever keeps you energized – you have no idea how many times you’ve offered me a life rope. Sure the details vary per post but I know that at every point I think is my lowest I can on knowing that I will be validated for my instincts, not shamed for trusting and championed for being what I know is my best self (even if I don’t feel secure enough to act.) There are no words to repay you but I will try my best by finishing your book review I started but has languished because it didn’t seem enough to thank you. Honestly – you and your bloggers have shown me the lifeboat. I am working on the muscles they can help me to climb in and get out of here.

      • All that matters is that you live an authentic life – Marianne. The rest will follow. 🙂
        When you’ve walked through the fire that disordered fuckwads have thrown at you – you can pretty much handle anything. You’re mighty.

  • My now ex-husband had an affair with the wife of a Pastoral Counselor. Then, after the affair supposedly ended, she went back to school and became a therapist herself. Fast forward 18 years and I discover he’s cheating again. You know, because I’m still a horrible wife who never made him feel loved. My world fell apart again, in the worst sort of way. I had just started my nursing career and had a new health insurance policy. I got information on counseling and lo and behold, guess who is one of the therapists? I requested approval to go out of network, so I (and my chart) weren’t at the same office where she practices. My request was denied but they proposed that my chart be kept physically by the therapist I saw, rather than in the general filing, and I was given appointments on the day the former affair partner wasn’t working. Thankfully she only worked three days per week. The only good news was, I got to talk to a co-worker about her affair with my husband!! LOL. I hate to feel so catty about that, but man, it sucked to be her. In the course of dealing with this situation, several of her co-workers had to be advised of my situation, including a secretary and her supervisor. That karma bus took the scenic route but it arrived at it’s stop eventually.

  • Thomas, thanks for being such a good guy and trying to save your marriage for the sake of your daughter and family. You, and the other male chumps who write on CL, give us hope that there are decent, caring, loving, honest men out there. I now defend men when some women who I tell the cheater story to shrug their shoulders and say “all men are cheaters …deal with it.” From male chumps here it has become obvious to me that cheater women come in all colors, shapes, and sizes. In any case, for all male cheaters, there is a female accomplice so that means that it is a totally equal playing field. Having said that, you don´t have to stay in that marriage any more, you have done enough and you have proven to yourself that you still don´t trust her and that you are living your life out of fear and not out of love. You still have many years ahead of you and you deserve to live them in peace. Leave as soon as possible, you are 15 years too late! You will survive and then thrive. We promise…

  • Thomas,
    I think the Chump nation have done a thorough job of telling you why it is best to end your marriage.

    The hard part for you is, you are stuck on How.

    Financial catastrophe … Define this for us. Ask yourself, am I truly better off financially staying with and supporting this woman? Does she have a job? Is your daughter now grown and not needing financial support? What debts and investments are so complicated that they cannot be mitigated. Have you sought some legal and financial advice from a divorce and tax lawyer specializing in financial settlements. Have you checked all the joint financial records to ensure she is not overspending.

    If you are just at the stage where you are still in a muddle (you mention emotional catastrophe…methinks the worst is over if you’ve had d-day) then use your time wisely and take the luxury of carefully planning your exit. She can sit there thinking she’s fooled you into reconciling. Silly cow. Once you see her as your adversry, then planning in your best interest is what comes next. Start loving yourself first. Make plans. Imagine where you will live and what you will be able to afford. Be very precise about how you time the cancellation of any joint credit. Most important, do not let on to her that you have plans.

    Simply put, once you’ve got a plan, then it is no longer an emotional train wreck. You will have a period of time once single where you must get to know yourself again. It feels raw, but it also feels exhilarating. After a while you calm down, get mellow again, and you feel more alive than ever. And you suddenly realize that you don’t have to include toxic people in your life.

    Marriages end all the time, and you have seen this coming for a long time. Yes it is very sad. All of us here know this sorrow. But we also know there is a better life on the other side = freedom from the mindfuckery, the resentment, the anger. Even if you don’t have the same material trappings as before. It’s OK, life is too short to worry about living in the best house on the street.

  • The thing about cheaters is they lie, they lie and they minimise. What page in the Cheater Rule Book says admit to an EA? Most of us of them have difficulty copping to the irrefutable truth of a PA – how many have heard ‘it wasn’t sex because it was only a bj, it was only once, I had my eyes closed, blah, blah, blah’. It’s hard enough getting ‘objective’ third parties to understand how having a ‘special friend’ is an emotional affair, why would a cheater not be insisting ‘they were just friends’, especially as isn’t the point of therapy to confide our deepest, darkest with the therapist? Why would she be copping to an EA when, frankly, she has the perfect alibi for being deeply, emotionally involved with another man? It doesn’t make any sense at all. Of course it was a PA.

    By the way, it was sexual but they hadn’t had sex? So does that mean it was only flirty? Or does that mean it was physical touching just short of bumping genitals, or does that mean it was everything but vagina / penis action? THAT sounds like Cheater Rule Book game play – and we all know even that much ‘truthfulness’ is rubbish!

    Sorry Thomas, I’m just not buying her confession to an EA, with it’s moveable time scale. We hear a lot of the same shit constantly coming out of the mouths of cheaters, but I’ve never heard any one of them copping for an EA and it really only ever being just that.

    • By-the-way …. an EA is still an affair in my book, it’s never ‘just that’. Friendships are friendships, nothing to hide. ‘Secret friendships’ (EA’s) involve deceit, triangulation, detachment from the marriage, fantasies about a different life with the AP. As damaging to the chump as a PA IMHO.

    • This whole ” we did not have sex” deal is , also , very common.
      6 years and no sex? Pleeeeze.
      My first XW claims that she had “inappropriate relationships wher the “”chemistry became sexualized””.
      She still refuses to explain how this jibes with my having read her journal entry where she stated ” I need to stop
      My destructive habits: smoking, drinking, SEX WITH STRANGERS”.
      Whenever I would bring up this discrepancy , she just ignored my question. She just would dodge it and I could never get an answer.

      • Arnold, because you were still asking her what the truth was, she was going for the ‘who are you going to believe? Me, or your lying eyes?’. She didn’t want to give you the satisfaction of being right about her, so she simply refused to agree with you that you were right. Unfortunately, she had to hold a power over you, in any form whatsoever, and in withholding her admittance, she retained that power. Sick and immature definitely. Confession, at least stops the torture of being constantly interrogated, so I don’t believe for one moment they continue with the facade in order to avoid the consequences. No, again, it goes back to the power and control.

        • Trying to get a disordered person to simply answer a question that he or she does not want to answer is an exercise in futility.
          These typed are really practiced in DARVO.

  • Hi again,

    Still ruminating about why on earth your wife would cop to an EA. I wonder if her confession occurred around about the time the shit was hitting the fan for the therapist with the other client? Afraid their affair would all come spilling out when he was investigated she decides best thing to do is cop for an inappropriate relationship (she obviously must have known she’d have to cop to something) and, feeling sure there weren’t actual photographs of them getting jiggy together, she went for the very least she would have to admit to. Now THAT is believable! Why she ‘forgot’ her own lies to you about the longevity of her ‘special friendship’ – who knows? You’d have thought that particular detail would have been carved in stone in her head – after all, she managed to keep track of her own deceit for at least 6 long years.while she was taking ‘therapy’ to a new level. Maybe she was much more concerned with saving lover boy’s skin, than giving a damn about the harm she was doing to you and your marriage?

    • Jayne, she did admit that it had become sexual (oral) but no intercourse, which seems to be important to me, although at this point what does it matter… She said the sexual aspect lasted about 9 months but then she stopped it because she knew it was wrong. But she kept seeing him for years. I know she was extremely emotionally attached and “eating cake”. She got whatever she wanted from him and I was being the provider of domestic comfort. Makes me feel like “plan B”.

  • I am truly appreciating all of the support, kind words, empathy and encouragement! Many things resonate. I think individual counseling (not couples counseling) might be helpful, although I wonder how effective counseling really is. Trying to express my feelings and questioning my wife feels like picking at a scab for both of us. It’s not helpful for either one of us.

    Have you ever been in a relationship that you sense is going south and it feels “icky”? You want everything to be ok but it isn’t?

    Feistypants, you are dead on right in your reckoning. Divorce Minister, I agree, forgiveness is a very long process, not a quick bandage.

    I am reading and re-reading all of the comments. They are so good.

    • Hi Thomas,

      I so understand and have empathy for you feeling like you are ‘picking at a scab’ and wanting everything to be ok, wanting this dreadful thing between you both to not be there. It is horrible, I know, trouble is, you can’t unknow it, can you? I remember being laid in bed next to ‘The Great I Am’ the night of D Day, being utterly devastated and trying hard to minimise to myself the horror I suddenly knew. In the end I kept coming back to ‘no this is real. This really happened. I’m not catastrophising, there are no silver-linings’ in the end I had to actually kick him out of bed, and he was only admitting to an EA at that point (even though he point blank denied it was an emotional affair because apparently there were no emotions involved, she was just a ‘flirty friend’).

      ‘The Great I Am’ in an attempt to convince me of how truthful he was being with me, volunteered the information that he’d been in a sexual situation (he still couldn’t cop to anything as crass as actual infidelity, even with this) with two other women when we were first dating. In conversations when we first got together I made it absolutely clear that infidelity was my deal-breaker, so he knew those two incidences were cheating, despite how new our relationship was. The point is, these betrayals occurred 9 years before D Day. Other than learning ‘The Great I Am’ was a dyed-in-the-wool cheater when I met him, and hadn’t suddenly become one, I didn’t obsess about those first two women. I still don’t. I’m not saying it was OK, I’m just saying the knowledge of that deceit and betrayal doesn’t and didn’t have the power to hurt me. It was past history. ‘The Great I Am’s affair (I am now more and more convinced there were other AP’s, she was just the one I found out about) is history also, having occurred way back in 2007 to 2009, but it WASN’T history to me, I COULDN’T put a line through it and move on with the miserable cheater in my life. You obviously want to put a line through your wife’s betrayal and call it history, you’ve tried so hard to do so, but you can’t, your mind is still torturing you with it. It’s horrendous Thomas, I know, we all know, but this knowledge hasn’t lost it’s power to hurt you and you have put in a lot of time hoping for it to stop having that power over you. You can’t unknow it and your heart can’t unknow it. I’m so sorry. If fifteen years of trying to move on hasn’t healed your heart, how much more time do you think you can put in waiting for this to become a dimly remembered injury? And (a major factor for me in my nightmare) how can you be sure you are not going to be ambushed by more unwanted revelations of betrayals?

      I can well understand why you have doubts about the efficacy of therapy, at the very least you’ve learned that therapy isn’t always a safe, healthy environment. How could you have faith in an institution that harboured the means and opportunity to wreak such havoc in your own life? Like every profession, there will be experts and there will be charlatans. I think therapy for you is well worth pursuing, but you’ll need to pick the right therapist. One who WILL NOT try to excuse what has happened, or expect you to take on blame for your wife’s infidelity, is absolutely paramount. I really hope you manage to find a good therapist and get the help YOU need to recover.

      I wish I could give you the encouragement to go Unicorn hunting with your wife, Thomas. I really wish I could tell you that there is a way to avoid ending your marriage, having to go through divorce and emotional and financial hardship, I really wish I could do that for you, I know you really wish we could tell you there is a way through where it all works out well and you don’t have to lose your cheater or your home or your marriage. I can’t do it Thomas, I’m so sorry. Fifteen years and the shocks still keep coming. I would wish you away from that cruel place you are in, I am so sorry.

      I wish you peace, strength and faith in a better, happier, safer future where YOU matter.


      Jayne x

      • For some people – they never truly heal from this sort of stuff.
        Given that you’re in the presence of Ms Mindfuck herself, its really no wonder you’re going through these feelings.
        Plus also the fact that therapy is a trigger unto itself which basically takes a ‘safe place’ and turns it into something horrific, even if the therapist themselves were genuine.
        Soul rape, indeed.

  • Thomas,

    You sound like a caring and reasonable man. You are seeking answers you may never get to “why”.

    No amount of counselling will get those answers. Only your wife can, and it looks like you may have a very selfish person on your hands, who neither cares about nor knows how to explain their disordered behaviour.

    I dated a guy (age 54) whose ex wife of 20 years cheated similarly with the local tennis coach fifteen years ago. It lasted for quite a while before he found out. They tried reconciliation “for the kids” which lasted three years until he finally saw her for her craziness and walked out. However, to this day he still refuses to speak badly of her because as he says “the coach pursued her relentlessly and she was too weak to refuse”. I have a hard time not laughing at that. My answer is “she didn’t need to spread her legs or take his dick in her mouth”. Blaming the OW/OM is fair game, but oh come on, it takes two to tango.

    The problem with reconciliation and the so-called forgiveness that accompanies it is — cheating forever changes the playing field in a marriage. It kills the passion. It kills the trust. Remember, the Reconciliation Industrial Complex is the same money-making machine that brought this trouble to your household in the first place. At least us honest folks at Chump Nation cannot charge you an hourly fee.

    You deserve better. No wonder you feel icky.

    I am five years beyond leaving a manipulative cheater. I am so very calm, happy, settled, single, and loving the freedom. You will be too.

  • Cheaters specialize in trickle truth. They are responsible, in their own warped reasoning and wholly self-protective logic, for protecting us from the truth. You know, as in “I knew the truth would hurt you if you found out”. In my case, D-day was just the tip of the iceberg, Thomas. A 4-year affair that was “just physical” turned into multiple, simultaneous affairs with three women (that I know of). I’m not saying that this is any where near to your situation, but what I did learn the hard way is that the “thrill” of getting over on the innocent seems to be a driving force in cheater deception. This was the ultimate deal breaker to me, that my seemingly adoring POS could get off on lying to me for all those years. This is icky on a cosmic level and it NEVER goes away. I tried for two years to reconcile the deception in my own brain focusing on his family of origin issues, and my own. But ultimately, I kept smacking into the conclusion that I could never ever find the way to be truly intimate with someone who betrayed me – and smiled into my eyes while he was doing it. Eventually, it had nothing to do with sex and everything to do with character. Hoping for the best for you Thomas, you and your family deserve it.

    • “……it had nothing to do with sex and everything to do with character.” These people have their personalities and characters formed long before you married them. Sadly, those are set. There is no fixing those defects. Love shouldn’t be dangerous, or sad, or maddening. In the course of a marriage two people are going to hurt each other but intentionally inflicting this kind of pain has nothing to do with love and everything to do with a character or personality disorder. She sees your mouth moving, she sees your tears. She can’t hear you and she has no interest in your pain other than how it might affect her. They have no effect on her because she has no conscience…..and she never will. These Chumps know what they are talking about. Slow and steady as you go. Get financial counseling and then a bull dog for an attorney. If you truly cannot divorce then separate as much as possible. You need someone to help you process out of the marriage emotionally. I don’t think open marriages work, but, in this case it might be an option. I hope you find a solution. This is no way to live.

    • The trickle truth…how I hated these words, but it is true. I found out my stbx husband’s affair was 1 year, that turned into 2, 3 then 4 years! He told me that he didn’t tell me the truth, because he didn’t feel safe. This is a man that I had spent 20 years with and married, because of his strong character and integrity. I don’t know him and now I question our whole relationship. If he could lie and betray me for that long, who’s to say it didn’t happen more than this time? What else has he done?
      Thomas, you will never know the entire truth. How can you ever trust her again? She made a choice every day to lie and betray you. Don’t you deserve more?

  • Thomas,
    Your wife is a dog fucker….( please see my previous explanation of a dog fucker on CL last post) but instead of her rescuing the dog….Lassie came to her! So she fucked Lassie…. For 6 long years! Whats that Lassie? There is trouble? And u know what to do? Bark! Bark ! Bark! Yes , sleep with me and I will rescue you from the horribly long lines at Walmart… And all the other tedious tasks of domestic life… Lassie knows the way… And leave your check with my receptionist… Who Lassie also bangs…
    So not only was he banging your wife… U paid him to do it.
    Your wife is a dog fucker. And Lassie has moved on to another show.
    Let her live in her fanatsy land… And while she is trippin down the flower lined path with Lassie… U get your crap together. See a lawyer. Make plans for your child… And if you are the better parent and prepared to have her then ask for primary custody. Get all these things in order without a word to your Dog Fucking Wife… See a lawyer and file.
    Its painful while your in it… Its painful going out…..and its painful on the otherside of marriage. But I tell u what … What is more painful is sitting and being some ones target…its hard to hit a moving target… So move!!! No stupid dance moves… U aint Michael Jackson… And thats just taunting her. … And making yourself look ridiculous. Steadily turn and walk the other way… On your terms… On your time….
    Cause a couple of shots might glance you …. But the farther and further you walk away….it will be impossible to hit you again.
    Paint your own picture Thomas…its time.

  • Thomas, are you saying that you’ve spent 15 years in a marriage with someone you have not trusted in all that time? That you are still in “reconciliation”? That seems like an awful way to live. Are you still marriage policing too? Checking up on her, etc? If you cannot trust her again, it’s over. You can’t feel safe and loved with someone you do not trust.

    I’m in my 50s too, I won’t tell you it will be all roses if you divorce, I lost quite a lot financially to my ex, I was on track to retire early, now I certainly will not be retiring any time soon, probably never… No pity here, I am in good shape, many chumps here are much worse off, and my heart goes out to them! I just think you need to address your financial fears realistically, to do that you must see a lawyer with all your financial shit on hand. If you have close family and friends you should be OK emotionally after some time. If you are isolated as I was, it’s going to be lonely for a while. I do have peace in my home and I hope one day to find someone who will love me again and find more friends. If I don’t, at least I am not chained to a liar who only pretends to care for me. I’m not investing my time and life in a person who won’t have my back when I need them. Jedi Hugs Thomas!

  • Thomas,

    I am nearing three years since I discovered my then-wife’s affair.

    I tend to be positive about human nature and I think sometimes people can be separated from the mistakes they make. My ex-wife’s five year double life could only be conducted by someone who at heart is a liar, not some capricious mistake made by a decent person. It had to be part of who she is. I never got and at this point do not expect a true heartfelt apology for the damage she inflicted upon me and our children.

    I am not sure how I mustered the balls to get a divorce right away and fight for what I consider to be an equitable split. Divorce is incredibly painful, financially stressing and I never expected my marriage to end that way… but thank goodness I no longer am vexed by living a lie.

  • ‘I think sometimes people can be separated from the mistakes they make’. – I totally agree Chumpion and I can call a drunken, one night stand a ‘mistake’ (though I wouldn’t condemn anyone else who couldn’t) but years and years of lies and deceit? NOT a mistake. ‘The Great I Am’ says he ‘made a mistake’ – it makes me feel physically ill to know he lets himself off the hook with that crap. The liar is WHO he is and I HATE who he is. In previous relationships I hated the sin not the sinner, I can think very fondly of my first husband, and previous lovers, but the miserable, selfish, heartless bastard who took the gift of my love and fine regard and called it trash? I despise him!

    • Exactly. No normal non disordered person could keep this up for 6 weeks let alone 6 years. That is key , IMO, to the determination that you are dealing with a cluster b.
      They are practiced at deception and feel no effects keeping it up long term.
      They function, sleep well, and show no signs of stress or guilt like a normal person.

  • 6 years isn’t a “mistake.”

    It is a pattern of deceitful behavior.

    You probably aren’t ever going to be able to move on unless she takes FULL responsibility for her choices and stops trying to blame everyone else.

    She cheated. She lied. She’s a lying cheater. Until she gets that and really owns it 100% there is no way you can move on. Who cares if she wants to move on. She’s the lying cheater. What she wants doesn’t matter.

    I say get out regardless of the emotional or financial consequences. You will never heal until you get away from the gas lighting. And please believe me when I say she is *still* lying to you about that and many other things. I guarantee it. She is clearly incapable of taking responsibility for her CHOICES and that isn’t going to change.

    Save yourself and your child and get out while you still have some of your sanity and self-esteem intact.

  • Man, this blog entry and the last one have just blown me away.

    Thomas – my ex cheated on my for years with a close male friend of the family. I have a decent job, but she was far ahead of me in her career as I spent 9 years working part time because I wanted to spend time looking after our daughter. As a result, she got out of the marriage in a far better position, financially, than me. I’m doing OK, but I’d be doing much better if we’d stayed together.

    But, dude, my ex-wife is a fucking loser. She’s an attention black-hole. No amount of admiration, praise, illicit affairs, attention, enabling etc is ever going to be enough for her. She blames everything on me and hasn’t changed a bit since we split. In fact, it looks like she’s even more out of control from where I sit.

    You’ll find a way to survive, financially, but staying with this psycho is going to end you, buddy. Just get out of there and find some peace.

  • Thomas, none of this is about your capacity to forgive or anything you did wrong. It’s about how you want to spend the rest of your life. You don’t give me, at least, one single reason why you should stay in this marriage. Your wife does not show remorse, as CL points out. She is not honest, even now, about what went on. And while I have some sympathy for the notion that therapists are authority figures who can have tremendous influence on their clients–six years? or more? That’s a long time to live a double life, which suggests to me at least that your wife has a taste for cheating. After all, as her husband, you too are supposed to have tremendous influence on your wife and that has not proven to be the case. You had to paternity test your daughter and she isn’t flat on her back with shame and remorse, having dragged her marriage into “Maury Povich ‘you ARE the father’ territory.” If she was really played for six years by this guy–where is the lawsuit against him? Why isn’t she in serious individual therapy with a woman or whomever she wouldn’t want to have sex with? I can’t even imagine living with a person like this.

    Divorce is always expensive, financially and emotionally. But so is infidelity. I’d rather live in a modest apartment or condo with my integrity intact and a chance to find an honorable partner that stay in the situation you describe. As we say around here, get your ducks in a row. Consider filing for legal custody of your daughter. I am not sure why you aren’t concerned that the next affair won’t bring a divorce filing on her side. If you file, you will have a chance to build a healthy life and see what it feels like not to live with an abuser. Your wife will have a chance, should she want it, to get some real help.

  • She admitted to boinking her “therapist” for three, no six years. Out of the blue, four years after it supposedly ended. What the hell prompted that? Just IMAGINE what you haven’t found out about yet!

    Oh, and- from a friends’ experience- the reason she was mad about the DNA test is because she wasn’t sure what the result was gonna be. If she was SURE, she’d have been crowing how her being okay with it is incontrovertible proof that they never had PIV sex. Even though that’s complete bullshit because all it would mean is they hadn’t done anything THAT month… but trust me, that’s what she’d have said. And then crocodile tears about how you don’t trust her and she loooooves you.

    Third, you always seem to have a reason that now isn’t the right time to divorce this lying, cheating bitch. And it’s not that you love her and want it to work- the best you’ve had to say about the relationship is that most of the time you “do well with” her. Well, most of the time I can share the living room with my roommate, and she’s refusing to confront her severe lactose intolerance. So that’s not exactly a glowing description… First it was your daughter, but she grew up. Now it’s your age/finances. Forgive me for the presumption, but has the truth-allergic slut you married told you (or implied) that you can’t do any better? Because unless her tainted snooch is ACTUALLY gold-plated, I’m pretty sure you can, and I’m also pretty sure the financial loss will be worth finding actual real love in your lifetime.

  • I too was drip fed the story of how my ex had led a total double life for more than 6 years and only got that fact when the OW ambushed the family home to do his dirty work for him.
    She was declared winner of the pick-me thing and must have had her triumph shadowed by learning from me that he had witheld important facts from her for that whole time too.
    Maybe he reformed into an honest soul, maybe not, but it is no longer my problem. Seriously, I realised that I could no longer believe a word he said.
    Can you? Will the story change yet again? Sure it was not 10 years…is it over…were there others?
    Living with that kind of uncertainty is a threat to your very sanity. I refuse to play sleuth and catch-me-if-you-can any more.
    I hope you make the same decision.

  • I’m a little late to this topic, but I’m hoping for some feedback on this.
    D day was 2 years ago. We’re still married. He has been seeing my (former) therapist for the past 2 years, 2 days per week without fail. After approx. 208 therapy sessions (2 x 52 weeks x 2 years), he still thinks I need to “accept responsibility for my roll” in the whole mess. WTF is he doing at therapy? What can they possibly be discussing? Therapist is female, late-40’s… I’ve been wondering if he’s screwing the therapist. It sounds crazy, but it happens, such as in Thomas’ case.

    • Ask him what he thinks is YOUR role in HIS AFFAIR, ask if he is screwing the therapist and then ask yourself, “Why am I still with him?”

      You’ve been chumped. That is for sure.

  • God said,

    ” Thou shall not commit adultery. ”
    Exodus 20:14


    God also said,

    15″But not one has done so who has a remnant of the Spirit. And what did that one do while he was seeking a godly offspring? Take heed then to your spirit, and let no one deal treacherously against the wife of your youth. 16″For I hate divorce,” says the LORD, the God of Israel, “and him who covers his garment with wrong,” says the LORD of hosts. “So take heed to your spirit, that you do not deal treacherously.”
    Malachi 2:15-16

    God knows what was done to you, and He is not happy with what happened to you.

    Jesus said,
    31It has also been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, brings adultery upon her. And whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. 33Again, you have heard that it was said to the ancients, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill your vows to the Lord.’…”

    but it doesn’t mean it’s mandatory to divorce your wife, you can choose to forgive her and stay with her. Although God permits divorce in adultery, GOD STILL HATES DIVORCE!

    Jesus said,

    …43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous ”

    Matthew 5:43-45

    Jesus also said,

    The Lord’s Prayer
    …13″ And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’ 14For if you forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive yours.…”
    Matthew 6:13-15

    I was cheated on, it was painful and I chose to forgive and I asked Jesus to help our marriage. We overcame it, and we soon with the Grace of God though Jesus Christ, became happy together and I trusted him again. Before that happened, because he cheated and abandoned me, while we were apart, I also sinfully had an affair. Both our affairs stopped, and I realized just because he committed adultery first, didn’t mean it was okay for me to commit adultery too! I sinned against God, and God doesn’t say, that person sinned against Him and against me, so it’s okay for me to sin against God too. I asked Jesus for forgiveness and I repented, and I haven’t seen anyone else since.

    Jesus said, ” All things are possible with God. ” Even remorse, forgiveness, and reconciliation with someone who was not sorry for what they’ve done. Jesus can give someone a repentant and remorseful state.

    Someone said that, in the medieval times, a punishment was to chain a dead body onto someone, eventually the dead body killed the living person. They said, not forgiving, is like doing something like to yourself, eventually the lack of forgiveness and bitterness is killing you.

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