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Sugar Babies Saving Marriages?

An alert chump sent me this Dr. Phil clip on “Sugar Babies.” For those of you who have more prosaic affair partners (and probably retain your retirement savings accounts), Sugar Babies are those um, scholarship recipients of Sugar Daddies — men who meet young girls online and financially support them. This one claims she doesn’t provide other services, except prance around topless and let men lick her feet for $500.

You can watch this and think, “Oh dear, Dr. Phil is going for the Jerry Springer demographic.” Or you may think “WTF with the bows in your hair, kid? Are you seven? Do you have a Minnie Mouse fetish?” Or you might just dismiss everything she has to say because she’s a tart-ishly attired, vapid girl with no ambition in life other than to let stupid wealthy men support her.

This is what I thought:

She’s saying EXACTLY what the Reconciliation Industrial Complex says about affairs.

1.) It’s your fault. It’s all because you got fat and didn’t wear makeup and lived in sweat pants. Direct quote!

2.) You weren’t meeting their needs. She’s got the “gift of gab.” She’s just there to talk. “I think of myself as a therapist.” They’re so lonely, these men. They just want someone to connect with!

3.) You weren’t keeping their attraction. “Let’s keep things spicy!” Notice how many times she says “spicy.” I’m thinking the young strumpet read Esther Perel. (If she reads. I have some doubt.)

4.) Affairs make your marriage stronger. See, these Sugar Daddies visit her and come home happy and now they’ll be nicer to you! (Even though you don’t deserve it, because you’re fat and wear sweat pants.) Win, win!

Okay, unicorns mean affairs make your marriage stronger in that you’ll recommit even MORE after this terrible crisis, but IMO cheaters see affairs make your marriage stronger as you suck, you can’t meet all my various needs, cake is great.

I don’t think Dr. Phil or the audience are buying it coming from a young woman who looks like a stripper. What she needs is a proper suit and a Ph.D. and then they’ll listen to her. And maybe a Belgian accent.

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    • Yep! Alex was the first reviewer of the book on GoodReads. 🙂 It was such an insightful, thoughtful review. Every favorable review helps as I shop this thing to publishers — so please review the book on Amazon and Goodreads or click if other reviews are helpful. I have a troll who “unfavors” every. single. review. THANKS.

        • Chump Lady, I am getting into it with ‘Curly Wurly’ on the Goodreads review.

          (Anyone who responds PLEASE DO NOT GET AGGRESSIVE because that just confirms that we are crazy raging binary thinkers, remember the debacle when the researcher’s data was contaminated by ‘feedback’ before it got started and people got very, very angry). Anyway, she does make some good points about ‘split thinking’. But this is what people don’t seem to get about infidelity – what are your thoughts on this? I remember that in my reaction to my husband’s affair I was pretty much exhibiting borderline personality disorder – I literally was, crazy (with the pain), which I don’t think I am in RL.

          Here is what I wrote back to her:

          Yes it is Curly Wurly – and Tracy Schorn’s book is about what being cheated on is like. Which I was trying to explain to you, rather than having ‘an intense emotional response to your review’. It is why Tracy Schorn gets 3 million hits a day, because she ‘gets it’.
          It simply is not acknowledged: in society, in our community OR in therapy what a deeply abusive and traumatic thing infidelity is.

          Any therapist that does not acknowledge and deal with this, is a therapist on a hiding to nothing. You simply cannot intellectualise and engage the ‘higher neural cortex’ to someone who has had their entire life and safety systems blown up. It doesn’t work, their entire subcortical system is in complete hyperarousal, and their ability to appreciate that the person who betrayed might ‘might be conflicted’ is, frankly, zero. Any therapist who does this is actually re-traumatising that betrayed person if they even begin to start exploring that they might be culpable in the decision to betray.
          There should only be one thing on the table at this stage, and that is the coping skills of the betrayer and work to get them to appreciate what harm they have caused (good luck with that, as Schorn says, cheating is a narcissistic act, and narcissists don’t do relationship).

          The split, binary thinking that concerns you is what infidelity/trauma does – this is the POINT. It is the POINT Curly Wurly. Nobody asked the Nuremberg trialists about their confusion, did they. There are two therapists who get this, Dr David Clark and Willard Harley ‘infidelity is more traumatic than rape or having your house burn down’.

          If you are a therapist, which it sounds as though you are, I seriously advise you to develop this understanding in order to be more effective in your own therapy space. If you are a linguist or philosopher, please don’t insult us by writing about that which you know nothing about.

          • Hear, hear Patsy, very well said.

            If Curly Wurly is who I think it is (posted reviews on Amazon under a different pseudonym) then you might as well have whistled down a crevasse – she actually HATES Chump Lady, Chump Nation and any counter argument to her thinly veiled insults. I did try to answer one particular vitriolic review she’d made and she had Amazon reject my review because I’d referred to her by name (the name she had used to review with – go figure)! I certainly see no point in getting aggressive or insulting when trying to take on these people, but it appears holding a contrary opinion is enough to be considered aggressive. But, very well said anyway, Patsy. I totally get ‘infidelity is more traumatic than rape or having your house burn down’ and would describe it as such to anyone I could trust would hear me, unfortunately, I know most people are thinking I’m being histrionic / melodramatic if I even try to go there. It doesn’t make the reality of this experience any less true, just that most people simply haven’t the imagination (on top of that they are already doing the judging that the marriage MUST have been in trouble for this to have happened. They simply don’t get the reality of narcissists / sociopaths. I must admit I made those simple, erroneous assumptions myself before I went through it).

            • Jayne, the expectation that your cheater cares about you and will meet you half way is very reasonable, because that is what normal human beings do. It took YEARS and almighty patience from the therapist for me to let go of this delusion (that he was reasonable and would meet me half way). It I didn’t get it after a 15 year marriage, why on earth would anyone else?
              When Tracy Schorn says cheating is a narcissistic act and that cancels out the RIC unicorns because the very fact that they cheated shows they DON’T have the necessary humility and empathy to fix it, she is bang on the button. This point also took years of insult to injury, to absorb and accept.

          • Please link me to the source of this quote, I have googled without luck “s, Dr David Clark and Willard Harley ‘infidelity is more traumatic than rape or having your house burn down’.”

  • This post is quite timely.
    Yesterday, I heard Lisa Ling speak about the reality of these sugar daddies and sugar babies and the direct connection to sex slave trafficking right in our neighborhoods.
    Most of these women have been groomed over the years to believe what they are saying. They believe that this is what true love is and that the sugar daddies love them and need them.
    The ads are posted by pimps and the young women portray themselves as students as part of the cover for prostitution.
    The things that go on in our own towms is drightening and disgusting.

    • I have read that the international sex trade is now more profitable than the drug trade. I’ll try to find the source.

      And if you have children–most desired/kidnapped are 11-13 year olds, so it pays to take extra precautions.

      • “I have read that the international sex trade is now more profitable than the drug trade.”

        It must be. I see now posters in US airports on how to spot a “slave” in your neighborhood.

  • Better to discuss the review, I think. But this post reminded me of Sasha Grey (a teenage porn maker turned DJ, Actress) in the film The Girlfriend Experience. It does not end well for her in that film.

    This smug person probably does not mention that times she was nearly strangled or had to do things even she felt degraded by. By the Grey Art Productions had signed a deal with…here it comes…Spice Digital Networks. I forgot the name of the movie and looked it up and found this.

    STBX was a hidden porn addict. He would leave journal entries around on legal paper on the kitchen table confessing his porn watching. I told him that I was not interested in having porn in my life. I did not need that kind of sex performance and I found it an abusive system to girls and women, no matter how “empowered” they supposedly said they were. He said he felt the same, but just took it further underground.

    After D-day I researched the porn industry and found Grey and her story. Really sad stuff. Here is a great Ted talk about why this guy Ran Gavrieli stopped watching porn. It is really good. I have no desire for the kind of sex porn offers. I love love sex but it has to come with connection, intimacy and trust or I am just not interested.

  • The very sad thing is that there are men who fall for this idiot! And the comment about why should the wife get half of everything for doing nothing….huh? I guess it takes all types. Would love to see where she is in say, 20 years’ time. Insane!

    • Ooh, that comment hits a nerve. As we discussed divorce settlement, my husband stated how bitter he was to have made all this money in his job and stock market trading only to have to give it up. (Implication–it was his money and I’m taking it).

      He made that money on my back–I gave up a secure, better paying job to move across state lines so that he could assume a very prestigious, high-paying job. I was the one who encouraged him to take up stock market trading, AND I did 95% of the parenting + 80% of house-related tasks while he was building his career and stock portfolio.

      But you can’t talk reason to a narcissist–I’m just going to shrug and say, “It’s the law in a community property state!” I may also remind him that if he had moved me to a state without community property laws, I’d have had to file for divorce with cause and drag his tawdry affairs into the public domain.

      • The money thing always strikes a nerve with me too. My idiot says’ now that you are living off my dime’ … The dime is the 500 dollars a month he pays… And its only been 3 months since the settlement… Yes that 1500 has propelled me into the upper echelon of society!
        His little pea brian of course forgets when we lived on my dime for 12 years of our 14 yr union… Where he graduated without student loan ! 12 years of no money to buy xmas presents or family trips.summer camps, dance lessons … I paided for everything so he could freely persue his career… And go to school… Or and rebuild a class vehicle and buy a motorcyle
        And the last two years … Well seems he had plenty o cash to wine and dine ‘ firends’ and now support his tweeny illegal GF
        Fucking cake eating mother fuckers

        • When she said “why should the wife get half of everything for doing nothing” my thought was; why should you get thousands of dollars in marital assets for letting some guy lick your feet? Also, she is full of shit, she has sex with the men, I’d bet my house on that!

          PS: Dr. Phil has always catered to the Jerry Springer contingent, he’s a fucking quack.

        • TheClip–What a jerk. But, just goes to show you can’t talk sense to a narcissist because it’s always from their perspective. (Once my settlement comes through, if you’re ever in the central Texas area, look me up and lunch is on me…or is it my to-be-X?)

          I ran the auto-child support calculation for our state, and am chuckling that he will have to give me more in child support per month than he was giving me for running the house while we were married.

          Sometimes, karma is your friend!!

        • My fucktard tried to take everything one step further to make people feel sorry for him-I’m sure he still does. He actually started to tell one of our therapist that by marrying me he was fulfilling a fantasy he had of rescuing a “poor farm girls who had no way out of her situation.” He said he had to take care of me or he would have left. Did he forget I was sitting next to him? We came from similar working class backgrounds (my family actually probably was a little better off). I was at a state university that was better than the one he was at-yes we have those in my home state, as well as farms. I was always in the 95th percentile in grades and testing. He borrowed money from me to pay his tuition before we got married. Then I worked and supported him during the first two years of our marriage. I’m the only one of us that actually graduated (which he now lies about), summa cum laude, thank you very much. I made so many moves and sacrifices for his career, and now he makes a lot more money than I do. But he seriously tries to act as if he “rescued” me and I would be living in squalor without his charity. People probably believe him because I was a SAHM for 7 years. It pisses me off.

      • Tempest and TheClip’s situations are sad and all too prevalent. Entitled Cheaters believe that they’re entitled to not only an all-you-can-eat buffet of cake, but also all YOUR money, your children, YOUR family’s love and affection, and perpetual adoration.

        One Cheater I know balked at offering his family enough financial support to cover bare necessities after his rather sudden departure. He portayed wife as an unloving, lazy, deadbeat parent who worked on an advanced degree (full-time) and a part-time job ‘just for fun’ while he was exhausting himself at work. (He was exhausting himself bonking OW co-worker. And here Wife, naive Chump, was telling him ‘Poor baby, you should ask for a pay raise. They (employer) should know how hard you work.’ It seems as though they did know how hard he worked (on OW) as he told co-workers about how OW was screwing him and women were screwing him over.

        • Exactly why chumps need to copy ALL financial records and store them in a safe place. I’m headed into a settlement battle, and am armed with stacks of Xerox copies that he can’t argue with. #sucksforhim

          (sorry–I’m into the hashtags this week and my mind mired in 13-year old thinking about right/wrong, which feels AWESOME!!)

    • You know what… twenty years this bitch will be perfectly fine and will likely have more money than me and plenty of other woman. And the reason is because she is a heartless, tough, cold blooded twat who feels nothing! She sees absolutely nothing wrong with how she conducts herself. And really, how is she any different than some celebs (like Tori Spelling) who sell parts of themselves to make a living?

      This woman irritates me because she lacks self respect and she is so simple minded is scares me! And Dr. Phil sitting across from her…….ugh….giving her a platform for this drivel. All to make a buck for himself!!! This entire world is messed up!

      • You can’t ignore stupid, sometimes you need to let it speak and show the world.. Dr. Phil gives her a platform to tell the world how she’s classy because she lets men lick her feet for money and drives a Range Rover. She’ll eventually get old and that’s like sweatpants… nobody will want to lick her feet, and she’ll have spent all her money on Range Rover payments, so she’ll be broke and have to give into that ‘no using my vagina’ thing for a bit.. until that gets droopy, then she’ll need to work on some other skills that don’t use a brain…

  • Classy, pick one:

    Nice person, that’s honest and true, she drive a Kia….


    Brainless bimbo that lets any guy with a wallet lick her feet and dances topless for married men for cash and justifies it by saying she’s helping their marriages.. she drives a Range Rover…

    If you said Kia, you are wrong.. a Range Rover is much more classy.

    If she drove the pope mobile, she’d be the pope.

    This lesson in ‘thinking like a cheater’ was brought to you by Raging.

      • I watched the whole episode, she got her MOM into the “sugar baby” lifestyle. They both did a job together where they got naked and whipped some guy. Though they never have sex with any of the men, supposedly.

        • Where I’m from, getting naked and whipping someone is close enough to sex…

          “Oh honey, where have you been?”

          “I’ve been getting whipped by two naked women, mom and daughter team… but it wasn’t sex.. it was sexual, and sexy, and sex like.. but no penis entered a vagina, so therefore it wasn’t sex.”

          “Awesome, I’m going to go get naked for the neighbor and let him lick my feet.. be home later.”

          “Sounds good honey”

          Thank god for foot lickers that dance topless but don’t have sex with you. They make the world a better place by spreading happiness. They are like clowns.

          • Too funny, Raging! I agree, what would the world be like without topless, foot lickers? A sadder place, that’s for sure. Hard to imagine.

          • Thank you for this comment! My delusional Xhole actually had the balls to pontificate for 15 minutes this week about how “although he knows he did some basic things wrong, he didn’t betray me, and it wasn’t bad enough to warrant a “biblical” divorce in the eyes of god”.

            Well, call me judgemental, but when you spend thousands of dollars on lap dances while your young wife is at home with 3 children under 4, with a restricted budget, take it further and hire a hooker….but can’t “go through with it” so you “just” masturbate while looking at her naked body….you solicit hundreds of people through Snapchat, online hook-up sites, Craigslist, etc. etc. but still insist you’ve never “gone through with it”, “it was all in my mind”, have countless cyber-sex partners, even taking pictures of your unsuspecting wife sexually while she was asleep to share without her permission to strangers, pursue a tart-y co-worker while your wife is 9 months pregnant with your 5th child, and just found her mom dead at 50 years old 6 weeks prior…..idk. Seems pretty close to betrayal for me. I am OVER THE MOON to not have to be married to this narc any more.

    • But guess what? Dumb bimbo admitted that she receives thousands of dollars in gifts and Uncle Sam will want to get their cut. Even if the money or a car was given as a gift, when it exceeds certain amounts, its subjected to gift tax. I got a feeling she will have visitors coming and knocking on her door soon and I am sure they wouldn’t be there to lick her feet lol 🙂

        • 😀 :))))

          talk about benefits or taxes, I want to let all the chumps, specially SAHM’s know who didn’t get to build their own SS checks to a decent amount for older age, if you were married to your cheater more than 10 years and he made lot of money, guess what? You are entitled to half of his SS if he is still alive or 100% if he is deceased. If they were older than you, you go by their age to collect that if they are deceased. You cant give or take away that in divorce, even if you signed a document saying you wont touch his SS later its null/void. Its surprising not many people know about this, even some people who works at SS lol.

          • Yep, that worked for me. Even though shithead cheater ex lied about his income to me.

            He has been dead for quite a while,

            When I applied to SSI they called me back one glorious day to inform me that I was entitled to his SSI because we were married longer than 10 years. Best of all it was over 300 dollars a month more than I would have gotten from my own work history.

            Now that may not seem like a lot to some, but it is a godsend to me….. having been forced to live on very little for the past 4 years. I hope he is spinning in his grave. I’m laughing all the way to the bank……

            • Tessie, I am so happy for you!

              Well, liars lie, that’s why he also lied to you about the money he made, just like my ex, looking back I don’t think there was anything he was ever truthful about.

              I am pleasantly surprised though they called and informed you about that, I mean they usually just issue your SS check and that’s it. I would say whoever called you is the type of person who cared about others enough to take their time and called you, because most don’t care. You see good people still exist on this planet, and Tessie, 300 dollars is 300 dollars that you didn’t have before and for some people even 50 dollars makes a big difference. I am so glad that worked out for you and that extra money coming in now makes things a bit better for you. You enjoy that money hun because you sure deserve it after what he put you through and as far as he goes, even though I don’t like talking bad about the deceased, well he can continue to rot, literally.

  • Her assumption of “class” makes me laugh. She’s an uneducated call girl who dances topless and drives a Range Rover. Audrey Hepburn she’s not…

  • Well dress her up any ole way and she is still a whore. And sadly she is someones child. Aint mama amd papa proud?
    I didnt see the whole interview but it would be interesting to see what ‘ daddy issues’ this young… cough … cough…. ‘lady’ has.
    She just aint cake… She is a cake topper. One of those stupid plastic stand ins. Have at it boys.

    • OMG, TheClip–she DOES look like a cake topper (if one took a snapshot of a stripper after a night of coke at a bachelor party).

  • Well, I suppose you have to tell yourself something to do this sort of “work.” The truth just doesn’t help. “I am gonn grow up to be a homewrecking whore” is kind of a buzzkill. Let’s just blame the faithful spouse and call what a sugar babby does “a service” to the deprived cheater. Blind leading the blind.

    • Good point, Divorce Minister. And I suppose it pays better than fast food work (though at least that comes with health benefits instead of requiring that you’ll eventually need an office visit and penicillin).

  • I don’t personally have a problem with a male partner looking at porn as long as he is not addicted, and the type is consensual and adult humans.

    I have concerns, though, that the prostitution/Sugar Baby thing really boils down to the belief that people are for purchase. The idea that intimacy is power transaction rather than a connection of two human beings. It aligns with the false fantasy that Cheaters and APs can float in a bubble of sparkly oasis, where the drudgery of reality is at home scrubbing pots in sweatpants. Real, developed sane human beings know that partners are to cherish and treasure, having given themselves to another without payment. To see the sexy in a nice suit or gym shorts. To connect, bolster and encourage in both glamour and grunge.

    There is something really messed up when a woman believes that the purchase of her body makes her superior to a woman who has given her body and soul out of love. And more messed up that a man believes that his wallet is a shortcut to a temporary illusion of status and virility that he could never earn solely of the basis of his personality and character.

    • Luziana, I can’t tell you how much your comments have helped me frame my situation. My fucktard left me because the “spark” had gone out of our nine-year relationship, and it’s no coincidence that he met his Schmoopie at a self-improvement happy camp, away from daily stresses. When telling a friend of my story for the first time last week, she used the word “drudgery” to refer to daily life and how it’s not all sparkles. Thank you for your insights.

      • Indeed, Karma! And think of the benefit that could have been reaped if our cheaters had made an effort to communicate or lifted a finger to bring us back to a place of centrality and specialness. If the effort had been on the existing relationship. ALL infatuations fade. Real love is, well REAL.

        Everything precious requires work and care to maintain its’ spark. It is BOTH partner’s responsibility.

      • Mine left because he felt a “spark” with a co-worker while on a work trip to Europe. However, I think real life with his tru wuv has turned out to surprise him with a reality he was completely blind to when he left for her. (I tried to encourage him to slow down and think more rationally, but….yeah. My calmy spoken words, unsurprisingly, had zero impact.) Anyhow, I used to hope he would learn (for his own good) that love is about more than the spark, but I don’t think that will ever happen. Now I figure he’ll eventually just find a new spark when reality with his girlfriend becomes unbearable, and he happens to meet someone new and feel that fresh spark again. Or maybe she will leave him first? Her track record is probably worse than his. It’s a toss up who will find a new spark first and leave.

  • Did you notice how she changed her story midway? At first, she claims she’s giving these men the care and attention their selfish wives are neglecting to give. She then paints herself as a saint for saving these marriages.

    However, she also talks of these men as if they’re fools for throwing cash at her for basically doing nothing. So she doesn’t actually care about these men, yet here she is lecturing wives on caring. She’d need to melt her icy heart before acting like an expert on genuinely caring about people.

    She says wives shouldn’t get half for “doing nothing” when, in the meantime, she’s ok accepting money for doing just that. Yet here she is lecturing against greed while greedily stuffing her own pockets. I also highly doubt she investigates what these wives contribute to a marriage, so she has no right claiming they do nothing

    She also talks of hard workers as fools, too, when there’s easy money to be had. So she doesn’t actually care about saving marriages. She cares about saving herself from hard work.

    This woman is quite the spin doctor, but I wasn’t buying the spin.

  • A person who is willing to do anything for money is a person who is willing to do anything. So-called sugar babies are not harmless. Just ask the grieving family of the tech executive whose SB shot him full of heroin and walked over his dying body. She was caught because of surveillance video on his yaught. According to police, she had done the same thing to her boyfriend. Who would ever be stupid enough to bring that kind of person into their life? And how will that family ever recover?

    • That story was horrifying. The wife and children have that woven into the fabric of their being forever. The monsters never look scary…and they give blow jobs to boot.

      • It is true, but after I read some of the stories on this forum about the cruelty cheaters leveled at their wife/husband and children, and how they left them destitute, having dad killed by his OW seems tame by comparison.

        A friend once said that divorce is harder than death because “the corpse is still up and walking around.”

  • It always amazes me that prostitutes believe our liar, cheater, fakers tell THEM the truth.

    HA HA HA HA….

    A bullshitter, bullshits to whoever will listen and give them kibbles.

    Sex for hires are manufacturers of kibbles. It’s their business.

    The foot lickers are men who are so deep into porn that all they have left are feet to get turned on by.

    Like a homeless drug addict, they have hit bottom. She’s the pusher.

    Such an oppressing and suffocating business.

    • “The foot lickers are men who are so deep into porn that all they have left are feet to get turned on by.”

      OMG do you think that’s what it was? That’s why he was never interested in sex? Normal, everyday, common garden variety sex with his wife? Something tender and intimate? Oh God! After 2 years I just still hate him. I am lucky I don’t have to deal with him, he has run away from my kids so that is good. But I hate him passionately still. He destroyed my soul and I haven’t been able to fix it yet, even after 2 years. And I’m trying I really am. I feel like I am just waiting for death. I’m not finding any of the discussion funny today:(

      • Oh, Nat1–don’t give him that power. He is a black hole of a human being, to be sure, but don’t let him suck your vitality. You, you, you, and things that heal you are all that you should think of right now.

        Surround yourself with as much social support as you can get (plus a therapist if you can afford it), and pamper yourself with any money the a**hole left behind. If you can’t afford a therapist, check back her EVERYDAY—it helps. I’ve been a bit obsessive reading these forums over the past few weeks (and more since I filed Monday), and it helps to see other people’s perspectives, stories, and dark humor to help heal.

        Find a ray of light or two, and transport yourself out of the desire for death (though we’ve all been there because of having married soul-sucking vampires).

        • Nat1-I understand so much about the anger & hate-this week has been really hard for me too! what you need to understand is that it wasn’t you, it was never about you & there was nothing that you could have done to change it. These men had the issue long before us & they will have it long after we leave them. It’s a life sentance of shame & misery that they will have to bear alone. Disordered assclowns with porn/sex addictions do it because they are incapable of any kind of real connection or true intimacy with anyone AND it’s all about them. They do not have to put any real effort or feeling into jacking off to porn or going to random/nameless & faceless prostitututes, masseuses, hook-ups-whatever. It’s just an activity with no emotion because their brains are so fucked up. It doesn’t matter if they are paying for it or watching it-they believe the fantasy & that they are really wanted by these women and superior to them ( gag) it’s infuriating to have wasted any part of our lives with these dirtbags & for some of us who have had children with them. It is soul crushing at first to have devoted yourself to one of the nuts only to find out you were just ‘of use’ as CL puts it for the image of a normal husband, father, boyfriend, etc. there was never any love-it’s impossible for the disordered to love anyone but themselves.

          Please get counseling-it has helped me tremendously & this site has been a godsend. Find your mighty-it is there & has always been there…….it just got trampled by a fucktards. If you need Meds to help quiet your mind sometimes & give you peace-just do it. Don’t waste any more time/emotion on your ex. Trust that he sucks, grab your kids and run towards the land of meh. There are a lot of chumps here at different points on the journey that can help & will be there.

          I know none of this is easy but when you get back out into the real world, your sense of self & self-worth will return. My stbx had devalued me in every way possible-my looks, my career, my intelligence… never seemed to end. Now that I was able to finally find another job & spend more time away from his negative influence, my world is slowly changing. At work I am respected for my knowledge, my career is a good one, I dress nice and have been complimented on my looks, I have been asked out. At first I kept thinking maybe there was something wrong with those other people because it was the complete opposite of what I had been hearing for years from him but now I see that he said that shit to me for years to break me down & try to control me. I’m never going back to that shit again. Now when he starts acting like the assclowns he is, I look at him & think ‘I don’t care what this loser thinks-he hides out at work or in his car to beat off to porn on his iPhone every day & has to pay underage hookers to fuck him.’ what a great life he has-not!

          As for me & my son-we are planning our trip to the land of meh…….I hope to see you there soon Nat1

      • Nat1, please see if you can find a therapist certified in EMDR. I think you need help to process this shit. Jedi hugs!

      • Nat1 –

        You are worthy of love and intimacy and great sex. You chose someone completely unable to give it. We all fell for the same type of guy/dame. All of us here. You are surrounded by hundreds of friends at chump nation. A warm family of love working to emerge from the scathing fire of infidelity. We are your support. Cheaters will not win against our army. Our mighty strength can lift battle ships. Their misdeeds will be revealed. Do not despair. Stick with us.

        Once I realized that there was nothing, NOTHING I could do to make my cheater be a better person, that I had no control over my cheater’s moral actions or decisions, his total lack of disregard and respect for me, NONE, I found complete peace.

        Look at a rose. It is beautiful. Are you not more beautiful?

        Of course you are. You are God’s greatest work. His Opus Magnus.

        Let go of this fool incapable of personal connection and let his Maker deal with him.

        You are something. You want to be moral. You want to be compassionate. You want to trust. You want to love. You want to be tender and have intimacy. It exists. We exist.

        Don’t give this all away because of some fool. Your virtues are true.

        Keep going, you are on your way to tenderness…you deserve it.

      • Oh Nat1,

        I feel you, honey. You have a right to be angry. Your anger is justifiable and righteous to be sure. For your own well-being and healing, is there some way to direct some of that energy into something that will give you a sense of your own personal power and be life-affirming? You are so much more and mean so much more than the human excrement to whom you were married. Don’t let his lack of character, morals, conscience and humanity continue to define or control your existence. He showed himself to be unworthy of a kind, humane, authentically loving human being – you.

        I know that feeling of wanting to die, but don’t. There would be one less loving person in the world to balance the devil’s disciple which is your ex. There are too many unkind, unloving, phony, inhumane people walking around – the world needs more people like you. If it is possible, work to move your anger from inferno to blow torch. The difference is at the inferno level, the anger controls and directs you. At the blow torch level, you control and direct the anger. If you are able, it really does help to see a good therapist. If it is difficult money-wise, in some areas, there are actually free clinics which provide mental health services or there may be some place which provides services on a monetary sliding scale. I am sending you love and big hugs Nat1. We are all here for you.

        • Thank you everyone for your kind comments. Mostly I am ok. Just little things somedays turn everything upside down….momentarily anyway. I don’t think I will stop hating him, but I am better even since this morning. Thanks.

  • Related to the sweatpants comment, I had a guy friend post a photo meme thing on Facebook. It said, “My wife when she goes to work,” and showed several photo of a sexy nurse/sexy businesswoman, etc. Then it said, “My wife when she is at home” and showed yes, a woman in a t-shirt and sweatpants (or it may have been yoga pants.)

    This is the thing – I have friends of both sexes that I work with. I’ve been over to their houses on the weekends or after work. NO ONE is wearing suits and ties, dresses or dressy work clothes at home. Both sexes are wearing jeans, t-shirts and some sort of casual shoe at home. I once ran into my male boss out at a store on the weekend wearing sweatpants! I’ve seen my female coworkers out in yoga pants. Many times when I’ve seen male co-workers out on the weekends, they have beard stubble. This leads me to believe that everyone goes casual when they are at home. So I don’t get it when I hear once spouse complain that the other doesn’t make enough effort to dress nice for them at home. Is the complaining spouse all GQ/Fashion Model at home?

    • That meme appreciation is a red flag of entitlement. I’m not saying that it’s ok to let ourselves go when we are coupled-up, but complaining about it publicly is a sign that your friend might be looking for a fantasy.

      • I felt uncomfortable when I saw it, Miss Sunshine. This is more of a friend of a friend (Facebook “Friend”) so I don’t know him or his wife well, just through the context of other friends, but I read it and thought, “It’s not like you’re Mr. Fancy anytime I see you, dude!”

        • Now that I’m a part of this world, I see a lot that I never saw before. I’m not clear about whether I’m hypersensitive, or just realistic now. It’s sad how prevalent cheating is.
          I don’t mean to imply that you have any responsibility here. You’re just pointing out something interesting.

          • “Now that I’m a part of this world, I see a lot that I never saw before. I’m not clear about whether I’m hypersensitive, or just realistic now. It’s sad how prevalent cheating is.”

            I feel exactly the same way.

            • Me too. Its made me cynical about pretty much every aspect of life.
              However, this is a GOOD thing! Sure as hell makes it so toxic, manipulative fucktards never make my life a living hell anymore. 😀
              Really, its all about taking off the rose coloured glasses and being realistic.

  • On many talk shows the adult person usually has a dialogue about their mother but no mention of a father. The same with this young woman. I never saw any sign of a conscience with either woman and I never heard anything about her father. Maybe I missed it.
    The exec who died on a boat was not only an idiot about cheating but the stupid fool was using heroin. Why?!? It is so damn addictive. Was his home life so boring? I think these Alpha types miss using spears on wild animals. I can’t come up with a better explanation.

    • You didn’t miss it, it’s so common most people never notice it in the media. When someone is fucking up, even if it is as horrendous as going on a killing spree, mothers are always a part of the media coverage, fathers not so much…

      • I absolutely agree. It’s another uncomfortable reminder of the misogyny rampant in all societies. Very, very disturbing really, and misogyny comes from both men and women so I’m not talking a ‘battle of the sexes’ thing here. I haven’t got children, but I’ve observed well the impossible task mothers are expected to achieve, even in their own eyes – ‘guilt’ should be a pronoun to mother! Fathers get lots more passes, whatever choices they make. Be a Stay-At-Home-Father and (from my observation anyway) it’s regarded as an almost heroic decision Stay-At-Home Mum? – setting a bad example, dooming family to poverty, social security benefit scrounger (not my opinion I hasten to add). Father continues working full-time and employs child-care? Again, heroic, setting a good example. Working mother employing child-care? Neglectful, ‘wanting it all’ selfish. Be like me and have no children? Selfish, immature, defective. Be a child-less man? Hard-working, vocationally driven.

  • Wow…she’s…uh…special…that one. I love that Dr. Phil wasn’t taking her seriously, the sarcasm in his voice. Path of least resistance for that one. No critical thinking skills, no class. She’s really going to have a rude awakening.

  • Just watched the whole episode on YouTube. All I can say is that those are some very broken women, indeed. Lots of evil in a pretty package. Well, maybe not that pretty…. The women on that show are ICY and sad. And desperate.

    I thought it was interesting that the second woman on the show is a home health nurse–I would’t trust her with my dogs. xH’s OW is a home health nurse. Back when xH was confessing everything to me, he told me that OW bragged that she could manipulate her clients very easily. xH saw that as a sign of her amazing insight and ability to read people. I see it as a gut-churning realization that there are a lot of vile creeps who are put in positions of trust with vulnerable people at their mercy. xH gets what he deserves by taking off with a freak like that.

    • Oh yes, the home health nurses. My 91 year old Dad has homemakers and a PC. Had to weed through manipulaters a plenty. Thank goodness I was able to be there to keep an eye on them. One would have walked out with everything my Dad owned otherwise. Some of these people are in that job to prey on the elderly and vulnerable.

      • The ow is a social worker and my mil who loved her in our life is a couples therapist – the 2 saviours in polar fleece, cargo pants and fugly shoes.

        • The OW is a religious social worker, who prays with and preys upon anyone and everyone she can. She targets vulnerable people and her level of manipulation is truly frightening. She actually uses her education and training to rip people off! I think there are alot of people like her out there, especially in certain professions. I am now very suspicious of social workers and people who feel the need to constantly and loudly proclaim their “love for the Lord” (actual quote).

        • Cheater McDonkey Turd was in the helping profession and of course, his OW is a self-righteous Jesus Cheater minister. They both are two of the most self-absorbed, selfish, navel-gazing, duplicitous, personality-disordered people on the planet – but don’t tell them that. In their minds, they are two star-crossed lovers who were always destined to be together who God finally brought together through adultery and family destruction – because that’s how God does things, dontcha know.

          • As Gandhi, said, ‘I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.’

          • As Gandhi said, ‘I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.’

  • Gee, I can’t help but wonder what the men look like, who pay for her services. seeing as her reason for being is because the wives of these men have “let themselves go.”

    Also, what will this little bippy look like in 20 years? She’ll need to find a new profession when her looks no longer entice older men.

    • Her mother is quite pretty, I noticed. Also a weakling with a manipulative daughter. My guess is that in spite of her middle-aged beauty, she’s as desperate as they come. Very sad. Daughter strikes me as personality-disordered–the type who makes everyone around her miserable. And our society is set up to allow these people to win–you get fired from your job or sued if you speak the truth when they hurl abuse. On the other hand, perhaps she’ll end up in jail, or worse. I feel bad for any children she gives birth to.

    • Pot calling kettle here (chubbyish-at-present 46 year old) but for a young woman, she is already on the chubby side, and I don’t know a man in my social group who is attracted to that bimbo, bleached, fake-tanned, fake-everything look – or at least one that would admit to it! She is not particularly physically attractive, maybe averagely appealing, if you are into the porn star look. Maybe it’s a cultural thing, but to this non-American, there is nothing that says attractive to me. The attraction is the kibbles, the fantasy and the no-real-strings. I just don’t watch this kind of crap, or “reality” TV. It makes my head hurt. There have always been these parasites, there always will be, it just seems there are more morons with more disposable income to …. “dispose of” on them. Good luck to the whole damn lot of them, they deserve each other, just don’t cross the line into my world ever again – lord, now I am one of those of the “gated community” mindset – SOOO not who I used to be ;-).

      • Well freakin’ said. 100% agree with ya. 😀
        I do the same thing as yourself. No time for trashy porn-star looking morons, nor that reality TV crap. And I’m at the age where people look at you strangely because you don’t partake in it (late 20s).

        • Go you, Lania. My eldest is early 20s and she could give a toss. Not that she’s out saving the world, but her “look” is more vintage, girly-quirky-pretty. This look that screams attention is not who all of your generation is – no way. In fact, look around at the many copies of her that should know better – in their 40s-50s and beyond. They get the media coverage mostly because the sane amongst us are just, WTF? They are a weird curiosity, nothing more.

          The chub is probably because it’s too hard to exercise with slippery, saliva-soaked tootsies – anyway, that’s what her Range Rover is for, so she doesn’t have to actually WALK anywhere!

          • Thank you very much! I’ve never been one for the ‘reality TV’, fake, unauthentic shit – nor the ‘party girl’ crap, even in my teenage years.

            A lot of ‘women’ (using that term loosely, they aren’t women in my eyes, just trashy whores) around my age are all about the ‘its all about me’ and cheap fakeness – of which I find degrading and disgusting. Old-fashioned mindset is far more satisfying – I was brought up to respect your elders and to treat people the way you expect to be treated and to do the right thing and live authentically.
            Funny really – because my mum was a chump, but the moment she found out she became a warrior queen and did exactly what Tracy says to do (the ‘rid a cheater, get a life’ mantra) – without any prompting needed. 😀

            Theres no two ways about it – this cheap tart has sex with these guys. They wouldn’t stick around otherwise. And in her case – shes got the intelligence of a split pea so she has to spread her legs to get attention and money – else noone would even fart her way. For the authentic types like you and I, they’re so far beneath our notice generally that we’d stamp on them through the door of having a life.

    • lol yea I was kinda hoping that someone would unilaterally change the rules she’s playing by so she can get a reality check as to what she and the cheaters are doing to the spouses. Have them pay her in counterfeit for example. Someone steal her identity, or fill her room with mosquitoes infected with bot flies or something like that.

  • My ex met some of his APs using a sugardaddy website. It’s prostitution, plain and simple. I’m disgusted by the website and all the people who use it.

  • Oh HELL no. After her name flashed up, I had to stop watching. That’s my daughter’s name and that’s exactly how I spell it.

  • My girlfriend makes no apologies about slipping to sweats / yoga pants at the end of the day.

    And yet I still want to have sex with her. Must be something to do with who she is, as opposed to what she’s wearing? Oh, how old-fashioned of me!

    FYI, as any man will tell you, it’s much easier to pull off a pair of sweats than it is a pair of hip-hugging jeans.

    • I have a professional job at a University, a graduate degree and I wear jeans/yoga pants to work. So by the blondie’s logic I’m somehow not classy because I can dress casually whether at home or at work? Total bullshit.

      And I get frustrated with skinny jeans in particular for the very reason you mention. There’s no easy, graceful or sexy way for me to take off my own jeans, much less my husband! Yoga pants are much, much easier 😀

      • True about the merits of yoga pants, but having lost 14 pounds since D-day, I find my new skinny jeans are excellent whenever I have to see STBX so that he can salivate over what he gave up by not keeping his dick in his pants.

        (still in revenge phase, yes. And it is delicious!)

  • Sirens…

    My Grannie warned me about them!

    A woman ( or man ) who’s biggest desire is to be desired is a fool and full of trouble !

    Sugar Baby or Gold Digger ?
    Ain’t any of this new but it sure makes this old man twitch !

  • After I watched that clip, I was so grateful I wasn’t her. It’s really sad to see a young woman degrade herself. By choice. What a waste of life. The worst part is that she doesn’t even know it. Talk about having mastered the art of self-deception. And those men that pay her for whatever? Yuck. I don’t care how much money they have. They’re a bunch of fools.

  • The sad thing is Dr Phil is normalizing prostitution and perversion. This young woman is prostituting herself and is actually being used by this man and ridiculed by viewers of Dr Phil. It seems to actually be a mutually predatory situation however I say it is a societies job to protect the young naive and low intelligent among us.
    She may be a trashy seeming idiot and she may be naive,crass and arrogant in some ways, however I would like to know what kind of life experiences this young woman has had that have lead to her thinking so little of herself. What happened in her life and in her experiences of our world that has made this being a sugar baby, toe sucking prostitute seem so appealing to her? Having been married to a SA and having a father that fancies himself a sugar daddy I have seen first had the underlying predatory dynamics involved in all of this. To say it is not healthy is a huge understatement. It is destructive and harmful on every level.
    I also have three healthy and beautiful daughters ages 17 -24 and when ever they see young women with old men they and their friend respond with repulsion and shocked amazement.. I have witnessed this several times. They make gagging noises, nervous laughter and they seem genuinely confused by the obvious grossness of it. I have witnessed my daughters and their friends make comments that include words like gross, perverted, disgusting, sick and repulsive to describe this sugar daddy dynamic.
    I also know that our culture is normalizing sexual deviance and we are even glorifying prostitution and perversion now. A healthy young woman that has a healthy sense of self and good self esteem is not interested in prostituting herself to perverted deluded creepy old men, or to men that are lust filled middle aged creeps that are terrified of aging and so want to feast on the youthfulness of others. Common sense tells healthy young women that the truth about these men. They know that they are most likely self obsessed narcissistic predators and or sexually deviant jerk offs and on a more serious note they may be full of repressed misogynistic rage and deluded narcissistic entitlement and arrogance. Not a win win situation that is mutually respectful.
    This sugar daddy sugar baby faux relationship dynamic is becoming more and more normalized and the truth is it is actually predatory. It may be mutually predatory in many ways however it is really noting but glorified prostitution. Normalizing the exploitation of young, naive, damaged or low intelligence women is wrong. Taking advantage of young people that in many cases have had limited opportunities in life, is predatory and should be challenged and seen for what it is. Creepy

    • It may be society’s job to protect the naive and innocent, but this whore is not that at all – she’s parading around saying that its other people’s fault that she can get her hooks in, spouting garbage like ‘why do the partners deserve half for doing nothing’ and other crap like that – therefore shes in full knowledge of what shes doing.
      No sympathy from me, at all.

  • She’s a whore. I guess she’s proud of her lifestyle, but she’s just putting lipstick on a pig calling it a sugar daddy or whatever. And give me a break, she doesn’t have sex, she just lets them lick her feet and she prances around topless. Yeah, right. I would be willing to bet she not only has sex with these men, but it’s the sort of degrading, soulless sex that no one with a drop of self respect would ever tolerate.

    Since she seems like a sociopath, I don’t feel a bit sorry for her, however. Her type does just fine…… once she gets too old to prance around with ribbons in her hair, she will find a sugar daddy to marry and support her. He’ll cheat and she will enjoy his money.

    Not the lifestyle for me, but it seems to work well for the disordered people out there. I just wish these sick fucks would stick with each other and leave the rest of us alone, though.

  • Blah blah blah … my ex’s final OW is very young, was described to me (by him) as fun, all the other OW were all ‘fun’. Essentially, what I heard was that ‘I don’t want to deal with real life. I need fun’. And funnily enough (ha!) we had a lot of fun – it just wasn’t NEW fun. Fuck this noise. I’m so bored with hearing how somehow I was lacking. It’s annoying as fuck.

    • You’re only ‘lacking’ when it comes to disordered types. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on – their words matter not one iota in the big scheme of things.

  • If it weren’t for predatory women like this bimbo, I’d still be married to the sort of jackass who would leave his family for some twat who flatters him.

    • An infidelity koan! Which comes first, the cheater or the bimbo?

      I know what you mean. It’s like an acid test. Got to go through with it to know what you really have. Unfortunately my ex was made of the same junk scrap metal at his core as yours was.

      • Right!

        And there were signs from the very earliest days…that I ignored, whether out of naivete or desperation. That’s on me. Hopefully never again.

        The cheater comes first, to answer your question. The world is full of cheap whores, but not all men or women cheat, see. A high-quality person of character and integrity is as repulsed by these freaks as you or I am. They are as aghast and appalled as we are, at the plastic fronts, the empty words, the aggressive ploys, the soulless voids where these people’s hearts and minds are supposed to go. Cheaters, on the other hand, LOVE that shit! Cheaters and whores are like living cliches, though they think they’re special.

        Here’s how you know, and I think I learned this from our Chump Lady. If whores came first, then it’s true that they DO hold magical powers and can make any man or woman fall for them, for they are so incredibly, unavoidably fantastic. (Tuh-huh!) But we all know they’re not. They’re gutter trash, and only broken people fall for their crap.

        Never in a million years–in spite of several warnings–did I believe my husband, whom I’d believed to be intelligent and insightful, would walk out on his family for an older, home-wrecking alcoholic with almost nothing to show for her 45 years on Earth. Of course, my error was in having any faith in him, when he’d given me multiple reasons not to. My deal-breaker, however, was the fucking. And had it not been for a cheap, desperate, unaccomplished twat, I’d still be married to the tool.

  • This woman is a clown. Fetishes and orgasm will never trump love. I feel sorry for any human who was obviously taught that sex trumped love. She is trying to hold on to the only thing that gives her hologram of a life substance. That somehow men going to her for their fetishes makes her life meaningful. The truth is she has nothing else. Nothing. Her bullshit existence on this planet to have men pay her for their most degrading form of sexual pleasure is not life affirming. It’s a joke. She is trying to void love with a pathetic attempt of saying she can do it and you can’t and that make me above you.

    But, oh yes we can. We, too, can void love and stay with soulless men for the sake or our fear of losing our marriage, disrupting our children’s lives, our lives and poisoning everyone around us.

    We are here because we won’t. We won’t give up on love, tenderness, intimacy and join them in the cess pool of loveless sex to maintain status quo.

    Would you rather a car than your child’s admiration, your honor, your morals?

    Fuck the car. Fuck the person who taught this human that this form of life is acceptable.

    Stand strong against this bullshit, chump nation. Band together.

    • “and that make me above you.” Sorry, I should have reread and edited. I meant, “and that makes me special.” Yes, you are special, Ms. Sugar Baby, getting foot licks by paying fools. Saying it makes me laugh.

      Understandably, I would prefer a pedicure then some poor slob with bad breath licking my tootsies.

      • The thought of some random stranger licking my feet grosses me out SO MUCH!!!! Glad I haven’t had my dinner yet! When this delusional prostitute finds she needs to get a proper job I wonder what she’s going to put on her resume? Urgh – pass me the barf bag!

    • Its sure gonna suck when, 10 years from now, shes aged 40 years, her tits have sagged, shes put on twice as much weight and still tries to whore around. Probably still will be banging on with the same lines of ‘you aged and got fat so he comes to me’, only then, she’ll be the old and fat one.
      Cheap whores always have the exact same lines – it’d quite comical if it wasn’t so damn pathetic.
      I don’t know why any guy would be stupid enough to touch it – she looks disgusting.

  • I hope she gets audited by the IRS. What a dumb bitch to go on national television and pride herself on how she takes-takes-takes!!!!

    I work in tax and audit accounting. I can only have sweet dreams about how the IRS will come-a-knockin’ on her door!

    Sheshhhh…I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

  • I read all of the comments first and then watched the video expecting to want to punch puppies afterwards.

    It was so over the top I got a kick out of it and smiled big and genuine the whole way through. We can’t take this shit too seriously. She’s dumb like a fox. She’s figured out a way to make a lot of money off of creepy guys. Is it right? Most likely not, but we live in a land of free enterprise. Not my call.

    There are Real Men out here because I’ve know them and they wouldn’t think twice of wanting what she offers. Too bad some of us didn’t marry Real Men.

    It was up to our husbands to uphold our wedding vows and keep their promises They were the ones who stashed their wedding bands in their ash trays whilst they nanced off to Ed’s Bed’s to get laid or blown.

    There will ALWAYS be some whore willing to spread her legs for a married man. There will ALWAYS be some skank guy that will fuck a married woman.

    Let’s put the blame directly where it belongs.

    • Syringa, Saying it like it is!!!!!! I lie to myself when I say my ex wasn’t capable of cheating. Looking back he was wired to it. Every choice he made led us to dday. He’s the boyfriend pushing to have sex even when you are not ready, he’s the guy who is spending money on sketchy highs (800 numbers, massage parlors, prostitutes with the fraternity), is always holding back, incapable of intimacy. There will always be a feeling of something missing and not being good enough even when you know you are. The guy who makes excuses about his future and yours together. The guy who never invests as equally in the relationship as you have. The guy who has unhealthy secrets. The guy who dates one girl and then lines up another. The guy who is not transparent. Who spends years dating and can’t make up his mind. Who misses celebrating significant events and sabotages your vacations, holidays, schooling,and career because it is his life that comes first. Who is irritated when a real conversation comes up. Who doesn’t get excited when you tell him you are pregnant. Who runs away when life gets hard (in sickness…no. In tragedy…no.)Who pays more attention to your appearance than his own. Who would rather be well liked by acquaintances than spend any real time with family. If there’s one thing I have learned in a twenty year marriage with a Cheater it’s that their lives are a lie. Oh but most have beautiful families (which they will destroy too).
      As to Dr. Phil, that show seems to be going downhill and it’s hard not to feel sorry for a woman so disconnected from what makes life beautiful. She is making poor choices, has no shot at true love, and one day will look back and know she wasted precious time. She certainly is not experiencing life like most women her age. And last I checked you can’t have a meaningful relationship with a Range Rover.

  • Couldn’t finish watching the vid. Couldn’t, for the first time, even read all the comments. I’ve recently come to realize that my husband’s woman is in her early 20s. I want to know what’s broken in our society that older women can be cast off like this. There are so many reasons I can think of I don’t know where to begin. But I can’t fight it and I don’t want to live in a world this grotesque. It’s too bad I’m too old even to become a nun.

    • Its the fact that theres something wired wrong in your husband’s head (and everyone who subscribes to this shitty view of ‘trading in for a younger model’) that he can’t appreciate wisdom and authenticness – and instead hooks up with a cheap tacky whore who has no morals, no decency and no intelligence – because thats all she is. You don’t need that sort of shit in your life.

    • Moving Liquid: My 56-year old husband (at the time) hooked up with a 24-year old, too (even though I am 12 years younger than him and looked much younger than my 44-years at the time). What we have to remember is that these men have a personality or character disorder that has nothing to do with us. They are attracted to novelty, and take full advantage of opportunity at the expense of substance (us).

      You’re right that it is a societal problem, and men with younger trophy wives are glorified. And opportunity for hookups has become much more prevalent with cell phones & social media. But it is not US. We are not the problem, merely the victims of someone else’s dysfunction. As CL says, we chose from the barbed-wire monkey mother pile. I know I have learned from it, and would prefer the company of a herd of adopted dogs to a f*cked-up man now.

      It is sooooo tough to play those porno videos in one’s head of one’s partner with a younger woman, but I can distract myself better than I used to, and am slowly getting to meh. I don’t know how long you are from D-day, but I hope it gets better every day for you.

      • Tempest I’m not sure men with younger trophy wives ARE glorified. I’ve always considered men (or women too, I suppose, though their not anywhere near as prevalent) with much younger women on their arms as ridiculous and somewhat creepy. I’ve kinda thought everyone thinks the same way too, so while he (or she) might delude themselves that they are mr (or mrs) super-virility for ‘catching’ some gullible young bint, for the most part, I truly believe people are laughing at them.

        • There’s probably a difference in judgment depending on the age discrepancy. Some 70-year old with a 25-year old does look creepy and gullible (could she really love him?). But I do think that less-ridiculous age differences do favor the man’s perceived virility/success. Sucks, but there it is. We are in a society that glorifies youth, often at the expense of wisdom or substance.

    • ML, I mean this very kindly but you have to start getting a grip on this now! In lamenting your age don’t you see you are buying into this youth obsession that is going on in our society? You perpetuate it! Please realise the truth that people are now living up to, and beyond, their hundredth birthday nowadays, you are barely halfway through your life! You will never again be as young as you are today, please don’t waste this time telling yourself you are washed up and done because, well what are you going to tell yourself for the next 40+ years? Your ex is not the last available man on the planet, he’s certainly not the last available good man on the planet and if you think about all the good people you’ve met in the 50+ years you’ve lived so far, why on earth are you telling yourself you are not going to meet another good person in your next 50 years? Please be kind to yourself and be realistic not fatalistic. I’m sorry to be getting firm here, but you do seem caught up in damaging thought that honestly has more statistical chances of being so much better than you are allowing yourself to see.

      With love and best intent

      Jayne x

      • ML–let me second Jayne, from one 50-year old to another. Allow yourself to be awesome! After D-day, I started wearing my fancy lingerie every day, took advantage of that post-trauma weight loss to buy some new clothes, and found that it made me feel better and more confident. NOT that I am looking for another man yet (egads!), but after years of self-sacrifice to a man who did not appreciate it, it is all about me now until I heal. And if I want to dress 20 years younger than I actually am (okay–no midriff tops, I won’t go that far), then so be it. Occasionally I use my best wineglasses for the nights I need wine to unclench my stomach from the pain of infidelity. The best revenge is living well!

        • Hi Tempest 🙂

          I’m 51 (damn, 63/64 was a fine vintage) and I use my best wineglasses and cutlery and napkins every night! (What the hell was I saving them for???) ex preferred the cheapy stuff and I love a nicely laid dinner table – so ha! I too dress nicely every day (although I have pajama days whenever I get the opportunity) and I figure we’re so much better off than our mother’s generation, it was social taboo to wear anything that wasn’t deemed ‘age appropriate’ and now there isn’t anything like that restriction. I’ll be one of those purple-haired women when I get to my dotage, it’s actually an ambition of mine – and bugger’em all if anyone wants to judge! 😀

          • Hi, Jayne: Yes, those early 60s were vintage years! Sounds like we can both be members of the Red Hat Society (, based on the lines,

            When I am an old woman I shall wear purple
            With a red hat that doesn’t go and doesn’t suit me.

            When my mother died prematurely, we found all these luxury gifts that we had given her put away as keepsakes–fancy scarves, handmade soaps, etc. She hadn’t had much growing up, and wanted to keep things to savor rather than use them. As I cleaned out her dresser, I vowed I would never do that, and that resolve has strengthened since throwing my cheaterpants out.

            As my daughter says, “Treat yourself!”

            • Yes, I agree with enjoying the “good stuff” on a regular basis. One thing dday taught me is that life can change in a moment and to appreciate each day as best as possible. I use my favorite glasses (inherited from my grandparents) and wear my favorite, best clothes “just because” I enjoy them.

              • Not only do I use the best China and crystal but I buy myself flowers too! And the nice smelling body scrubs and soaps. I’m 52 and yes, it took me a while to get over feeling sorry for myself, but not any more. Meh is just moments away! Go for it, chumpettes!

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