When it comes to infidelity, there are a lot of fuckwits awfully invested in the blame-the-victim narrative.
Of course, chumps aren’t alone in this. You can point to any kind of abuse and there are always going to be abuser apologists blameshifting.
“What did you do to make him so mad? You were asking for it.”
“You wore that short skirt and walked through that dark parking lot. What did you expect?”
“Well of course you’re the inferior race. We can’t trust you with voting rights! You people aren’t ready.”
Infidelity is no different. I’d say the number one criticism my blog gets (aside from my potty mouth) is that I don’t blame chumps for being cheated on.
That isn’t to say I think every chump is a delightful, perfect person. You might actually suck, but you didn’t drive someone to cheat on you. That’s on them. Just like you don’t drive someone to drink, or drive them to shove your head through a plate glass window. You’re not responsible for anyone’s abuse or self-destructiveness. Infidelity is always a CHOICE. An abusive choice, on a decision tree full that was full of honorable options like divorce or therapy or honest conversations.
And I would say the same to chumps. You got cheated on? You don’t have carte blanche to disembowel this person or post their head on a spike in the town square. The cheaters’ suckitude isn’t an excuse for you to be violent or abusive either. We’ve got divorce lawyers here in civilization.
But for whatever reason, this notion that we compel people to behave badly and that we are responsible for any abuse that befalls us seems to be firmly planted in the Reconciliation Industrial Complex.
The other day my post Marriage Counseling Quackery got this comment from Jorge.
Right, never at anytime, ever, on the face of the earth, has a poor prior relationship with a partner had anything to do with later cheating. This concept, which is obviously false, gives the partner who originally had poor relationship skills a reason not to recover after an affair. The caustic parts of a marriage never get addressed because of the pass given to the partner, who over years, or decades, used the social / legal apparatus of marriage to play with another human being.
And right, a marriage counselor is a “quack” when he or she addresses caustic parts of a marriage which could be from the betrayed, as well as, the wayward partner.
Right away we know Jorge has spent a lot of time in unicorn circles because he uses the term “wayward” for cheater. We also know he’s a total dickwad.
Let’s run Jorge through the patented Universal Bullshit Translator.
Right, never at anytime, ever, on the face of the earth, has a poor prior relationship with a partner had anything to do with later cheating.
Spoken like a true cheater fluent in pompous word salad. Look, either you’re the kind of person who sees cheating as staggeringly hurtful, or you’re an apologist for it. You’re an excuse maker, Jorge.
This concept, which is obviously false,
Because you said so, Jorge? Why not give me some reasoned arguments about the super powers chumps must possess that MAKE them MAKE people cheat on them?
gives the partner who originally had poor relationship skills a reason not to recover after an affair.
So, it’s chumps’ “poor relationship skills” that make their partners cheat on them? Gee, and here I thought fucking people you meet on Craigslist was a sign of poor relationship skills.
But our poor relationship skills not only compel people to cheat on us — they’re the reason we don’t recover from affairs too! We just SUCK at relationships!
Thanks for explaining that, Jorge.
The caustic parts of a marriage never get addressed because of the pass given to the partner, who over years, or decades, used the social / legal apparatus of marriage to play with another human being.
Who is giving that partner a pass? You’re writing in passive voice (the preferred form of word salad exponents). The cheater? That person with agency?
Or, no, it’s the institution of MARRIAGE that’s to blame! Monogamy, that dominatrix! Toying with poor, enslaved partners. Tickling them with her wicked caustic feather.
And right, a marriage counselor is a “quack” when he or she addresses caustic parts of a marriage which could be from the betrayed, as well as, the wayward partner.
No, Jorge, a marriage counselor is a quack when he or she asks a chump what they did to make someone cheat. Addressing issues in a marriage is fine (uh, duh, that’s what marriage counselors do). But those issues don’t compel someone to be abusive. The abusive dynamic — infidelity — is the problem.
Cheaters are the sort of people who want to make false equivalencies — spending every Christmas with the in-laws, or your annoying habit of never picking up your socks — with infidelity. We All Brought Issues to the Marriage.
Yeah, well only one of us brought a fuckbuddy into the marriage.
Fuck you, Jorge and the unicorn you rode in on.
Hoo Rah! Succinctly stated what I have been saying all along. Marriages and faithful spouses dont make cheaters cheat. Thats their choice alone. I was in the same marriage and it didnt make me cheat…in fact i was committed to staying faithful.
^^^This. Lots of men hit on me during my marriage, but I never once considered cheating. Some were better looking. Some made more money. Almost all of them treated me better. But I had promised myself to XH, and kept those boundaries firmly in place by instantly shutting down any untoward behavior.
I never found it that difficult. Why so many others do is beyond me…
Red, in my 37 years of marriage, I loved my now ex husband and I was content and mostly happy. He wasn’t Rock Hudson to look at but he was my husband. I am soon to turn 63 and when I was about 52 and back in the workforce, one of my manager’s best friends was a millionaire businessman in the state of Victoria where I live. This man thought I was absolutely gorgeous and that I had a work ethic that he thought was amazing and he made many enquiries about me. My point is, I was flattered but also scared that another male took an interest in me as it never entered my mind that I was attractive to another male as I was happy with my poor, scrawny little husband. Guess what, he chased everything in a skirt and now they are 18 year old prostitutes. So much for being a loyal, loving and trusting wife. It got me absolutely nowhere.
Yes it did, You know you have a very well developed and strong inner core of values. You also know you were attractive, and still are on so many levels. Unfortunately, you have also had to plumb the depth of relationship darkness like the rest of us. And you are smarter now… you will never be chumped again. You are mighty.
Maree, my husband had a kink that he wanted me to flirt with other men. He loved to fantasize about me with other men. He constantly asked me which of his friends I would “do” (none). Near the end of our marriage he really wanted me to cheat. I guess that was because he had devalued me and was cheating himself.
I had no desire to play that game with him. I thought, okay, sexuality is complicated, if he needs this to excite himself, fine. But I absolutely didn’t want to, nor even know how to flirt with other men!
When my relationship started to dwindle, my ex wanted me to flirt with other men too. He wanted me to pick up a guy and take him home with us. I never did and it pissed him off so much. I had to leave the relationship when my ex got sloppy and left another email he had to pick up men. I had no idea he was gay (i.e., on the down low), but picking up another guy and taking him home for ‘us’ now made perfect sense. It would be his way of getting it on with a man and using me as an excuse (as explained to me by many of my gay guy friends who were once in the closet too).
My husband told me not long before D-day that he would like to watch me have sex with another man. With out blowing my own trumpet – I am physically more attractive than him (actually he is a bit of an old toad- whooa.. the bitterness) in fact he has always described himself as ‘punching above his weight’. But i have never been the slightest bit interested in other men – I wanted to look nice but only for him – for the last 29 years I have only ever loved one man, he was the father of my children, the centre of my universe I was not perfect but I was devoted and totally trusting.
I had by accident found a large amount of porn on his laptop but had not discussed it with him – realizing that he had some ‘hidden fantasies’ I asked what they were – I didn’t tell him that I had found the porn, but I was interested in why he had hidden it and thought we could ‘spice’ things up – what I didn’t know was that he had been spicing things up on his own for about 5 years BBLLLUURRGGGHH.
He had always professed to hate the porn industry so he when told me he wanted to watch me and maybe film it I was surprised – and of course I couldn’t do it …I could never be interested in someone else and I felt certain that doing something like that would erode our relationship – really it was NOT the first time in 29 years I had thought ” hmmmm…what a weirdo”.
What I came to realize was that his voyeurism was a symptom of his pornography addiction – and his desire to watch me with someone else was a symptom of his disconnection to me. To really get a rush he could only view sex in terms of an observer – disconnected, unemotional and dirty. I found out not long after this conversation that he had a long term obsession with prostitutes and well ……that my friends was the beginning of the end
Same with me. I had numerous opportunities to cross the boundaries, but I didn’t. Not once. I thought that was what making vows were all about. Why don’t these cheaters just stay single to begin with?
I think we all had opportunities presented to us. To me this is the difference – people outside of the marriage hit on us; we did not hit on them. Advances were quickly rebuked because we believed that the feelings we had for our partners were deeper, and more valuable, than a one night stand. We really valued what we thought we had, or could have.
Looking back, my behaviour certainly went downhill as the affair progressed. I was irritable, withdrawn, angry, sometimes unreasonable and certainly not affectionate. I knew something was up, and had been for a long time. I was being lied to, gaslighted and humiliated. It would drive anyone crazy. When certain therapists, and other fuckheads like our friend Jorge, try and blame the chump for the affair, they’re only considering the crazy behaviour exhibited by the chump – the behaviour of a person who is being ABUSED.
In counselling, it’s really easy for the cheater to build a case fo being “driven” to cheat. They just need to give a run down of their partner’s behaviour. It’s not so easy for the chump, who feels some remorse for their behaviour and, perhaps, wants to make amends so that their fucked up cheater will love them again. I reckon individual counselling is better because it gives chumps some space and support to look very hard at their partner’s behaviour. Sooner or later you’re gonna realise you married a narc. It took a long time for me.
And just because I feel like saying it again – fuck you, Jorge.
This is an interesting interview with Shirley Glass:
Shirley Glass, who has done more research on infidelity than perhaps any other single person, found that it usually the LESS INVESTED partner in a marriage who cheats. By Jorge’s logic, that means the person actually WORKING at the relationship is at fault.
A to the Men on this 🙂
So right tempest, i read the same stat and agree…when my ex left she rattled off a list of all the chores “she did” and told me she was sick of being my maid. What’s weird is everything she rattled off, except laundry, i did, not her. Since she has left i havent missed a beat, still do my chores but i have more time now that her drama is gone.
I had the same experience, Scott.
Scott and ken doll says, I believe you both but my ex husband would say the same. however, the truth in his case is the complete opposite!
It’s nice to have studies to report that the less invested partner is more often the cheater. People invested in a relationship don’t cheat. And I don’t mean “invested in having a family and a house and money in the bank”–invested in the intimate, committed relationship.
Yeah, yeah, Jorge, I heard this crap from my ex. It went something like ‘But what about what YOU did????’ when I discovered that he’d been cheating for years and years. Because, you know, me complaining about the tv being on too loud was DEFINITELY equal to him fucking myriad other women.
Kiss my ass, Jorge.
Marriage has nothing to do with cheating. Cheaters cheat because they are miserable deceitful people, period. I got the same line from my ex wife only it went like this “i did this one thing but look at everything you did.” Whhhhaaaattttt? Yeah come home every night, go to my kids functions, do yard work on saturdays, etc. what a horrible fucking guy i must be right? This whole cheaterspeak is just crap. Its another way of not taking ownership.
Ah but Scott, my x did all that too. He came home every night, went to kids functions, maybe not yard work but he was very into doing the laundry???? He just wasn’t present, available, a part of our family. But who would argue with him, right?!
Yup Nat, my ex was the same, and VERY into doing the laundry, I think it gave him a way to hide out, and I also have a theory that he wanted to be sure that he was washing away any evidence……,
I got the same line and was angrily told, “Instead of obsessing about my affair, why don’t you obsess about what you did to make me unhappy at that time?”
Instead, I obsessed about whether to hire a cheap or an expensive divorce attorney.
Ahhhahaha! I can almost hear those words coming out of my ex’s mouth! “You should have tried harder to make me happy”
“You should have tried harder to help me”
“You don’t love me or you’d want me to be happy!”
“You don’t care about MY happiness! “
This is actually what bothers me the most in his comment:
“This concept, which is obviously false, gives the partner who originally had poor relationship skills a reason not to recover after an affair.”
It takes things to a whole new level. If you don’t reconcile with the cheater, you’re choosing not to recover after an affair.
This gives cheaters a pass – the relationship isn’t destroyed because they cheated. It’s because their partner who drove them to it wasn’t willing to take the blame.
Jorge, the concept that people are driven to have affairs give cheaters a reason to take off their pants.
The idea that the betrayed spouse had poor relationship skills or used marriage to play with you keeps a cheater from taking responsibility for their actions and what their actions did to other people. It keeps cheaters from really changing and growing. It makes a good marriage impossible; to fix a marriage after an affair, you, the cheater, need to grovel for a long time and make it up to your partner. That’s reality and if you listen to anything else, you’re going to blow it.
If you have any desire to fix your marriage, you need to immediately stop talking about how your partner used marriage to hurt you. You need to focus on you and you alone and what you did. You need to accept that she does not owe you forgiveness. You may have lost her.
It’s not what I DID, it’s YOUR REACTION to what I did that is the problem. /sarc
You can’t make me eat liver and onions. Not even if you put a gun to my head–which constitutes–oh…EFFORT to try and make me do it.
I just heard an interesting take on educating people on bad habits yesterday. Have you ever tried to “preach/lecture” someone on how bad that habit is and how they really should stop doing it (giving them, of course all of the good reasons good things might happen if they stop their bad behavior)?
She asked, has it ever worked for you? Ever? NO.
Just like when we give cheaters second and third and fifth chances and they continue to cheat. If I were really, really magnanimous (I’m not), I MIGHT give cheater a chance to reconcile after first d-day.
SO what’s the excuse when cheater doesn’t stop the affair? What is the excuse when it’s multiple affairs at the same time? What’s the excuse when cheater fucks his partners in your kids’ beds—did THEY do something to the cheater too?
GFG. This guy has to be the absolute dregs of humanity. What an asshole.
Exactly buttercup. Been saying it for years. The reaction is what people focus on…you can do just about anything to someone and if they react everyone takes your side which is why the less you react with a cheater the less ammo they have. Fuckin bastards know it too….
At this point, some of them will just make stuff up or go “back in time” 20 years or so. Then there’s the vague, “What about all the awful things *you* did?!!!” And you start remembering, “Yes, I did eat the last of the skittles. I am such a selfish person!” IC really is great if you have a good therapist as the gaslighting can really do a number on you.
That line really stood out for me too. What a line of B.S.
OMG. Thanks for untwisting his words. I honestly didn’t know what the hell he was saying…and I have a Master’s degree in interpretation!!! He is an ass. I would not have been able to interpret this!!! I would have had to stop him after phrase to ask, “What? Can you say that a different way??” No matter what this type of person is talking about they just want you to hear the fancy words without really understanding. They think it makes them superior. It makes them an ass unequivocally!!
Jorge’s words were a PTSD trigger for me today. I felt panicky. It is 3rd party blame shifting and mindfuckery….and consistent with what my X said during his cheating years and after discovery (X Raging: “I am only responsible for my 50% of why this marriage didn’t work!! or X Self Pity (“I loved you the best I could…).
The truth is, he cheated for 2 years before telling me he was unhappy and he used blameshifting and gaslighting those 2 years, leading me to believe I sucked…while he was exposing me to STDs. My antidote to today’s trigger was to read all of Chump Nation’s posts.
CL’s post was helpful to me today for another reason: “You were cheated on? You don’t have carte blanche to disembowel this person or post their head on a spike in the town square.” I do not want to abuse my X – or anyone. That is not ME. I actually still have compassion for the horrible abuse and neglect in my X’s childhood. What is different now is that my compassion for him does not turn into spackle!!! And now I protect myself from further abuse by telling my story (as needed…) and choosing not to have any kind of relationship with someone who is abusive and deceitful. Even if he was my “best friend” for 26 years..
Today I am verrrry grateful for Chump Nation’s daily news feed 🙂
I have compassion for my STBX wretched childhood, and I am grateful, that he understood just how fucked up his childhood was with his hiddeous father and vaporous mother. He did his level best not to be that dad with our children. He was a lame dad as dads go, but not a monster to them. To me, well that was another story. He saved a special sort of hell for me. So cheater that he is…is gone. Every day my relationship with my children gets stronger… and little by little they are seeing who their father really is, a shell of a human with gaslighting, passive aggressive and raging exoskeleton, like a potato bug/jerusalem cricket, crawls out of the bathtub drain and bites every now and again.
Well, my answer to that crap is that we were *in marriage counseling* when Ex started the Terminal Affair.
Counseling that I initiated (d’oh), scheduled and what not. I was invested in, was clearly trying to “fix” the relationship.
Him? Turns out he’d been trolling the boards and Craig’s and his old FB gal pals looking for a new set of genitals. Happened to find one during the counseling, so off he rode into the, er, charms of Dr. Hoe.
Now , again, how is it my fault and what did I fail to do to “fix it”?
This reminds me of another blog I started reading a few years ago thinking it may have some insight, but now the title says everything “Survive your partners affair” but what it is really about is making life easy, take another bite of that shit sandwich or pretend your breath doesn’t smell like crap, so that the cheating spouse can survive to cheat again.
So much junk. If someone was being beaten and stomped on would they give advice on how to recover and survive the next beating? Sorry, Mrs. Smith, your muffin top incited that beat down, so it is your fault. Get in shape and maybe your won’t be sucker punched.
Unfortunately many of us don’t realize that some many things, short of physical abuse is still abuse. And being cheated on, mind fucked and everything else that goes with it is abuse.
Sorry, I’m on a rant this morning.
Your rant is right. Infidelity is abuse. Its not even a debate in my mind. To alter someone so drastically emotionally and mentally can only be classified as abuse. Heres and example, 20 years ago i majored in english. Even when my kids were young i would read 20-40 books a year, and i did so mostly while my kids were studying. Now i cant read a paragraph without my mind wandering. My mind has been permanently altered.
Yes, me too Scott. Loved reading all my life. There was nothing I liked better. I haven’t been able to read one book since this happened a year and a half ago. I’m basically a shell of my former self. Need to be on three medications and can’t eat. Diagnosed with severe depression and have been suicidal. This is definitely abuse and it started when he got involved with OW even though I didn’t realise it at the time. He started gas lighting me the minute he wanted me out of the way. I’m trying to pull myself together but they can’t seem to find a med that helps my depression. The one I take now makes me tired all the time. I’m not living, I’m existing.
So sorry to hear, Lina, and I do relate. I have had a lifelong battle with suicide attempts but a year ago decided that they would never again be something I would consider as a way of dealing with the pain of his betrayal. That said, I’m still in pain. I know that you’re tired and depressed, but try to find a way to get some exercise if you’re not already. It can make a difference. Do you go to individual counseling? Without IC and the people on this website, I’d be lost. Please hang in there, for right now it’s all we can do.
Thank you so much. I have been in counselling since he abandoned me. My self esteem is shot and I bought into blaming myself. I can’t seem to get past that. Even though logically I know it’s not true, deep down I doubt.
Lina I’m so sorry you are going thru this I know how bad it hurts! Words can’t even describe it! I’m so messed up too this has destroyed me too…I can’t think or concentrate. I come to this site everyday and would like to comment so much more but most days I can’t even put the words together to post what I’m thinking or feeling! I never knew such pain existed! I blamed myself too for a while but come to realize I was too good to him and trusted him too much and he took full advantage of that and knew I wouldn’t question what he was telling me! Cheaters do certainly suck!
Thank you and I’m so sorry for your pain. I’m trying to trust that he sucks, but it’s like that little devil on one shoulder and angel on the other. One says he sucks while the other says it was my fault.
I have exactly the same problem. I used to fly through complex and fact specific articles without hesitation. Now, I have to concentrate-alot. Since D-Day (over 4 years ago), I have felt as if I am floating in amber. For my sake, and that of my children, I “act normal”. I have done everything necessary to move on. But, but…I will NEVER be the same person I was. A piece of me died, the piece that believes in the fundamental goodness of people, the piece that believes everything happens for a reason, the piece that thinks the good guy actually wins in the end. Most people probably don’t notice the change, but I do not think I will ever be the person I was before my X’s betrayal. It truly is the emotional equivalent of physical abuse and the accompanying PTSD is all too real for many of us here. And for this jackass to try and blame the betrayed for the destruction of a marriage? Well, fuck him and the unicorn he rode in on!!!
VS, I could not agree more with your comment. I feel the same.
I, too, am changed forever and totally relate to your comment of, a piece of me died, the piece that believes in the fundamental goodness of people”…
I agree that cheating, manipulation, and general mind fuckery are abusive. I have been in both a I judicially abusive marriage and a mentally (cheating) abusive marriage. I prefer physically abusive if I had to pick. When my first husband would leave bruises on me from throwing me across the room, I KNEW it was abusive. But when my second husband would violate my personal safety by cheating and then blame me for it, it wasn’t so clear. When you get mentally worn down, you begin to believe that it IS your fault. That’s a tangled web to navigate mentally. The closer I get to meh, the less I am anxious and depressed. When I first filed and got an ex parte, it drove me nuts. I would try to watch a movie it read a book and my mind would wander. “Why isn’t my phone going off every 5 seconds?? He must be texting someone else because he can’t stand to be alone. I wonder who he’s texting. He must be furious at me for setting limits. Is he plotting my demise? I’m sure he’s trash talking me to someone new. Are the buying his crap? Not like I can blame them. I bought it. Wonder how long it will take the next girl to figure him our…” I couldn’t eat. I couldn’t sleep. I was paranoid. He had been spotted watching my house. He was making sure I didn’t move on and be happy. I was his possession. I still live in the same town in our old house. I need to move. I can tell you I was a mess, but those feelings don’t last. I am 27 months out from D day. I feel confident some days. I have friendships with men and i don’t have to listen to anyone accuse me of hitting on them or dressing like a slut. I will graduate with my masters in 7 weeks and he had nothing to do with that. I’ve found success without him. In building a new life for me and my kids that he isn’t a part of except one weekend a month. I’m starting to get job offers for my new degree and I don’t know what the future holds but I know it’s good. God has taken care of me the past two years an I trust an amazing opportunity will present itself and I will just know that it’s right. My life is mine again and it’s beautiful.
Should say physically abusive. My first marriage was physically abusive
‘I prefer physically abusive if I had to pick. When my first husband would leave bruises on me from throwing me across the room, I KNEW it was abusive. But when my second husband would violate my personal safety by cheating and then blame me for it, it wasn’t so clear’….
Oh how right you are MmmHmm.
At least with physical abuse the abuse is honest …. it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. With cheating it smiles at you, kisses you, makes love to you, tells you you’re the best thing that ever happened to him, he’s never been so happy… with physical abuse you are not questioning the reality of your own existence, you’re not looking at every happy memory with suspicion – either he hit you then, or he didn’t. With cheating … well, you’ll never know if he was cheating when your child was born, or when your mother died, or when you earned your Masters Degree. It is an all pervasive violence, touches everything in your life, physical abuse doesn’t make you question the truth about your friendships. Not much existential angst really with physical abuse – far too much with betrayal.
Congrats on leaving a cheater and gaining a beautiful new life. I am inspired.
Congrats in advance on your master’s! That’s wonderful!
There just is no moral equivalency no matter how hard cheaters and their apologists (usually OW or OM) strive to achieve it with their word salad. My test for this is the word order and the use of the word “but.” If someone says to me, “Yes, was he did you was wrong, but… [fill in the blank here, usually the standard ‘there must have been problems in your relationship’ crap]” I don’t need to hear the rest. The only morally acceptable word order is “Your relationship may have had problems, but…[what he did to you was wrong.]. End of story.
However is just a dressed up but 😉
My ex is a dressed-up butt.
My ex is a messed-up butt 😛
good one chumpanzee 😉
Fantastic! You guys made my morning!
My counselor gave me valuable insight today, and an exercise in turning around the way I have been looking at my life since DDay. These aren’t his exact words, I just hope I get the meaning right.
He said if you want to know where you are living your life … look on the other side of the but. For me, i would try to think of something positive about myself, and then would come the “but” ….. “he said I was worthless” or ” I didn’t keep the house clean enough”, or “I didn’t laugh at his jokes about abuse”, etc. And I couldn’t get away from feeling broken and worthless.
My counselor said that I needed to change the way I use the “but” . So instead of what I’ve always done … He told me to try and stop myself when I felt myself heading down the same old thinking path, and change things around. Turn the thought into this… “He said I was worthless but I’m not, no one is, my kids and family love me and care about me”. Put the negative first, and something positive about yourself and your life after the “but”.
I wish I could remember the name of the book and the chapter this approach was taken from, but I’m going to try and change the decades of thinking that came as a result of my XH’s abusiveness.
I needed this today. As XW’s relationship with final OM has yet to fall apart 2 years post D-day, I’m really beating myself up this week about it maybe being MY fault. Ugh. Still so chumpy sometimes.
Me too, a year separated and I just saw the OW and am now devastated all over again. And my husband, who has never had a dime, has taken her to London to meet the fam. I’m so tired of this pain.
If the pain is from you not feeling like you were good enough, you are believing the LIE. You were ALWAYS good enough, but your cheater never saw you as the lovely person you are. You were a tool in his box to get what he wanted.
What you are seeing is a soulless man take his next victim to meet the fam.
There is no LOVE involved in this “new” relationship. He is not capable of it. He just picked up another tool from his box. That is the TRUTH.
And he is the biggest tool of all 😀
Calamity Jane is right! Don’t believe the Big Lie(s). We chumps have a tendency to believe what people tell us because WE are honest. You ARE good enough, Moving Liquid. The person who is not good enough is your husband. Anyone who would do what your husband did (and is still doing) is not someone to be with anymore. I hope you are moving towards divorce. He does not deserve to be called your husband.
Scotty–My STBXH has been carrying on a 2-year affair. I don’t expect it to last forever, but I’m not surprised it’s lasted this long. Don’t beat yourself up that your XW’s affair is still going on.
It is the kibble/cake cycle. For the character-deficient, marriage is initially great because you can get a steady supply of kibbles and cake from your spouse. Then, after a handful of years, you decide that you’re bored with chocolate cake, and want to switch to banana cake. Enter the Affair Partner. But don’t divorce.
In your case, your XW and OM may still be together, but that doesn’t mean that all is well. Remember that your XW is interested in trying new cake flavors.
Scotty, just because they are still together does NOT make the relationship healthy. My wise counselor told me that couples whose relationship started as an affair stay together because they want to prove to the world that their love was real. It was never your fault and never will be. Were there problems in the marriage? I am sure there were, like there are in all marriages, but finding a solution by cheating, like your XW did, was not caused by you. You don’t have that kind of power. None of us do. If we did, then can’t we turn that power the other way and make them not cheat?
Amen and Amen!! My ex said that I “only” worked 42 hours a week outside the home to his 46 hours a week and I “only” spent 10/12 hours a week on cooking/housework, etc. and that was one of the main reasons he no longer wanted to remain in our marriage and “needed” to move on with his life with another woman. To prove his point, he presented me with a spreadsheet!! Yes, a freaking spreadsheet! He had tracked the hours I spent in the office and the hours I spent on housework/taking care of kids/errands/commuting to work/etc. in 15 minute intervals for over a month and documented them in minute detail in Excel. I was too shocked to be creep-ed out at the time, but looking back I realize he is one messed up individual! The mind of a narcissistic sociopath is a scary place…
He certainly had a lot of time on his hands to track your movements and to draw up a spreadsheet about them! If he has time for that, then he has relaxation time/time to do chores/time to do whatever it is he is whining about doing or not getting to do.
Nicole, my Ex had spreadsheets up the wazoo as well. He had one called “Margaret.xls” on which he tracked every penny he spent on things like pizza, chinese food, the occasional $1.64 for a prop my son needed for a school play. Then he deducted those little pittances from the 1/3 of our mortgage payment that he had promised he would pay over our 12 years in our house together (I know – why not half, right? chump supreme here). He has pages and pages of this OCD crap he gave his attorney to try to get me (who paid 90% of the mortgage off) to demand and sue me for 75% of the equity in the house.
I think he became aware how WEIRD he seemed to be tracking this shit so quote unquote he told his lawyer: “The [Margaret] worksheet was started just prior to 6/29/2011 after Margaret accused me of stealing from her. Margaret tracked nothing. She left all the record keeping to me and then, when things were not to her liking just accused me of anything she wanted. When proved wrong it never changed her behavior, but forced me to keep tighter & tighter records. This worksheet tracked our “relationship economy”, the small amounts of money that we owed each other on a day to day basis. Prior to late June, 2011 this accounting was not kept. If I had started this tracking from the onset, the gaps in my payments on the Mortgage worksheet would be explained.” Sadly for him, I did keep all my bank statements, which are going to prove he’s a deadbeat freeloading ass as well as a cheater pants whore.
Laughed my ass off when I read this – I never ever accused him of stealing from me THOUGH HE WAS!!, In fact two weeks before DDay he asked me for money for “the house account” and I gave him $800. How I dearly wish I hadn’t been so chumpy, and had been the way he accused me of being…. sigh. I truly believe the OCD spreadsheet thing is linked to the NPD, sociopathy somehow, but it’s not a skein I care about detangling anymore.
Holy moldy, my STBX- NPD loves spreadsheets and keeping tabs on *everything* I do in or out of the house. I never thought to check if my life is in Exel on his computer. What freaks.
A spreadsheet. Wow.
I’m surprised he didn’t put together a nice little Powerpoint presentation, while he was at it, and send you and the attorney an e-vite asking you to RSVP.
I would need a spreadsheet for my ex’s affairs. Then I can sort them according to lies, inconsistencies, moods, time of year, what he had for dinner …
Your marriage sucked? Fine, so leave! Cheating is an indication of character…or lack thereof.
The truth is that at best cheating is a sign of complete selfishness, at worst it is an act of aggression – a way to get back at someone.
If you need more vagina then is being offered or to have different vaginas on a regular basis – then get a divorce.
If you are angry at your spouse – then get some help dealing with the problems and if there is no solution? Get a divorce.
There is no support for cheating ever. Cheating will never serve as a solution under any circumstances.
Oh and on the topic of victim blaming…
I just watched this last night and thought about sharing with Chump Nation. The first part talks about victim blaming. But what impacted me more was right around the 10:00 min mark when he begins discussing the “Bystander Approach”. I think this applies to why we need to dump people who supported our cheaters or are cheaters. They absolutely are complicit.
I hope others out there find this as helpful as I did.
Thank you for posting this link !! A must see !
I love how people that think you must have done something to drive the cheater to it, seem to be time travelers from Victorian England. Because that’s the only possible explanation for why they think cheating is the only option. It’s like in their world, over half of marriages DON’T end in divorce.
Of course Lord Limpdick had to carry on a secret tryst with Madam Schmoopie. Why, Lady Chumpdom and he were forced into marriage by their parents. And after she had produced an heir, why she forbade him to enter her bedchamber again! Lord Limpdick and Madam Schmoopie are free to pursue their discreet love, because Lady Chumpdom will look the other way as society dictates, because her children will be the ones to inherit the title and property. And divorce isn’t done!
Except we don’t live in that world. If you don’t like your spouse anymore, you can divorce them. If your spouse won’t have sex with you anymore, you can divorce them. If you think someone else does it for you now rather than your spouse, then divorce your spouse and pursue the other person. If your spouse does things that annoy the hell out of you, tell them. Go to counseling. Except be prepared, because they are also going to have a list of things that you do that annoy the hell out of them. Do you know why that is? Because no one is perfect. Both people are doing things that help and hurt the relationship. You want them to look into what they are doing wrong? Best be prepared to do the same thing.
I think if you’d take a quick poll around this site, everyone could list several things they did wrong in their relationship. And they could list several things the cheater did wrong before the cheating. (Highly doubt the cheater could, because introspection is not their thing). So if the Chump did things wrong which lead to the cheating, why did the Chump also not cheat? Cheater also did things wrong in the relationship, pre-cheating. If the relationship was “broken,” then why did the Chump also not cheat?
I would love for anyone who claims the marriage is the problem to go through this hell then tell me if they still believe that…and i normally dont wish pain on anyone. The ignorance is outrageous.
Exactly this. I can understand infidelity in the past. Divorce was not an option, save in very extreme circumstances.
But now? If you find yourself in a loveless marriage and you are convinced it will never work, get a divorce. If you married a POS spouse who’s mean to you, get a divorce.
If you say you’re in a loveless marriage, BUT you don’t want a divorce, what you’re really saying is that you want kibbles and cake.
My fucktard and I briefly saw an MC when he was feebly trying to reconcile after D-day. I saw the MC once more on my own when it was definitely over, and her parting words to me were, “In your next relationship, make sure you don’t neglect the physical aspect.” He was crying crocodile tears in therapy about how I wouldn’t let him touch me in bed when I was trying to go to sleep. His need for constant touch outweighed my need to sleep. He was like a Harlow monkey. And the MC bought into that.
Fuck her. Can she be reported? That’s insane.
A lot of us here were deprived of sleep by demands for sex, after we’d already gone to sleep.
Also, of course the Chump is doing the work of three people, and is some sleep too much to ask.
BTW, my X and I had sex all the time, but he still *needed* to go take showers with the neighbor. Insane!
I was informed by Mr Fab that the affair was my fault because I didn’t ‘respect him enough’. That is the line taken by every domestic abuser, whether they use their fists or not.
People end up DEAD because of this kind of logic-the world starts spackling for you, right at the point you don’t need them to. “Oh, you can still be friends and coparents, right?” Yes, RIC and idiot MC, having been cheated on, the first thing I should have done was accommodate an emotional rapist. That should help……
Honestly, where do they breed these fuckwits?
The first question i recommend asking a marriage counselor is “have you been cheated on”? If the answer is no, find a counselor who has been there.
Reminds me of cheater saying I emasculated him and therefore he cheated.
I asked him to tell me what he meant by that. He said that I took too much control in raising the kids that he did not feel manly. So….me raising the kids while he was “working” led to him not feel like Mr. Testosterone? I told him my specialty is not in mind reading. Why didn’t he even TALK about it with me? He did say that my focus on a toddler and infant, and then on two young kids and two infants took all my focus off of him. He needed constant validation from me. How dare those pesky dependents take my time away from him!
So these are the things Jorge is inferring that caused Asshat to seek validation in other people’s orifices? And it’s my fault? Hey, Jorge! What about MY dissatisfaction with my immature manwhore? His petulant behavior did NOT cause me to fuck every dick I passed.
I wonder sometimes if that was my X’s problem too. I hope so and I’m really glad I didn’t neglect my kids to give him anytime. We are very
close now and they want nothing to do with him. If my focus had been on him instead of them then I could have lost everybody. Stupid idiot needing all mummys attention must really be regretting getting 22 yearold slut pregnant before he’d even left. Who’s he getting attention from now?
Jorge, is an example of cheaters grasping the “victim” stance. The skewed finger pointing, as if a cheater has no faults, that they were a perfect spouse. It’s a blame game and most likely these cheaters have been playing it most of their life. Everything is always someone else’s fault in every avenue of their life.
Ok…Jorge, now that you’ve made your point, you can get back to grooming your groin and taking that bathroom selfie. Don’t forget to get that close up of your hairless balls…oh, and don’t forget to suck in your pot belly and try not to get the toilet in the background of your pictures this time.
Quoting CL: “You got cheated on? You don’t have carte blanche to disembowel this person or post their head on a spike in the town square.”
Well……there goes my plans for Christmas decorating this year! 🙂
Ppffffffpt!!! Crap! Just sprayed milk all over my computer screen!
Oh Char – you got there before me! 😀 I was really looking forward to it and all …. I’d found the perfect iron railing and everything! Damn! 😀
TAKE THAT, JORGE ! Oh, and you really should pull your head out of your ass – it’s dangerous to walk around that way. On the other hand, we can’t hear you very well when you ramble so . . . Leave it there!!!!!!!!
WOW!!! Jorge really sucks!
Cheaters are spineless cowards. I believe in every instance cheaters do not think at all about who they will be hurting when the cheating is discovered. The spouse or significant other, children, parents of both parties, siblings, friends, etc. The list is long. The pain is real. I didn’t point fingers when I discovered what was going on behind my back……I went into full on repair mode! I was trying to SAVE everyone from the pain. I was willing to go to counseling to figure out how we had gotten to this point of his cheating without ever even knowing there was unhappiness. He seemed great. We seemed good. Everything was running smoothly in my eyes. My cheater pretended everything was good, wanted me to forget the entire thing, it didn’t mean anything anyway and we continued for a total of five years. He was still cheating. You know……because I was making him miserable!!!! And I was just so damn happy ya know (living each day believing someone else held his thoughts and his heart)!!!! I was absolutely on edge every.single.day.!!! No one should live like that. But I did it and I DIDN’T have an affair as unhappy as I was!!
Jorge, cheaters cheat because they have poor character, no moral fiber and poor communication skills. Cheaters should not ever marry. Because……no marriage is ever totally perfect since all humans are imperfect. And odds are…….someone is going to leave the toilet seat up or push the toothpaste from the center of the tube instead of the end. Since this will likely send you over the edge…..do us all a favor and stay single!!!!!!!!! Go get random pussy with no attachment or emotions connected to it and live your happy life!!! But zip your pie hole!!!!
Jorge is also a ginormous coward. Anyone else here notice that he responded to an article/thread that was over two years old? Come to the here and now and spew that nonsense Jorge! He won’t because he’s a coward and more than likely a cheater too-they seem to go hand in hand.
I stayed for 3+ years after my ex’s infidelity and I ate and swallowed many shit sandwiches in that time; not the least of which was my ex finger pointing the blame on me and telling everyone that “our marriage wasn’t good” “our marriage was over anyway”. I didn’t get the memo or the divorce papers.
At the beginning of our third year of faux reconciliation I started fantasizing about leaving and started thinking it would be nice to be: cherished; appreciated; with someone who who didn’t have a history of cheating etc. It was when I started appreciating attention from the opposite sex that I knew we were done. I didn’t act on those feelings other than to ask my ex for a divorce-because that’s what you should do when you’re unhappy. Not Cheat!
At that point I did everything I could have done to save the marriage but it was too late. It was too late the day he cheated on me.
My cheaterX said, “Margaret, I left you a long time ago, I just didn’t tell you about it.” While I continued to pay for all his food and housing and cell phone… while he was cheating… he didn’t see the need to TELL ME ABOUT IT??? and yes, it was all my fault… for “not paying enough attention to him.” yep sure. Would like to hear what Jorge has to say about that kind of cowardice. Like others here have said, you want to be single and swinging, just Fucking Leave, OK? Leaving means actually telling me what you are doing, then taking your crap and moving out of our house, how hard is that to comprende?
Omg! Really! What a thing for him to think or say to you Margaret…I don’t even know what to say to that! I hate damn cheaters!
somuch, you should go to “stupid shit cheaters say” and read my entry there from a year ago. My Cheater Pants should really win a Word Salad Award. I wrote down everything he said so I wouldn’t forget it. My journal is over 400 pages long. Whenever cognitive dissonance hits me (and it still does 1 yr 4 mos from DDay), I read some of the incredibly cruel things he said to me after my 16 years of loyalty and submission (yeah, like dom/sub, I’m embarrassed to say) to him, as well as supporting him all those years financially and exposing my 3 kids to his narc rages and verbal abuse. Supreme Chumpdom, yes I hate cheaters too. Probably the only other cheater I hate as much as mine is my friend whose H had an OW for 19 years of their 23 yr marriage, during which marriage he persuaded my friend to get her tubes tied; she never had any kids. Last week her ex H married his OW whore, who has three kids by three different men. Gives me chills.
I will check it out. That sounds just awful for your friend, cheaters are really good at acting aren’t they! It just makes me sick! Oh get this…my STBXH whore had 3 kids by 3 different men and 2 of them are brothers she is living with one brother and married to another one…so her kids are brothers and cousins and their dads are their dads and uncles? Jerry springer shit right there and my STBXH threw his family away for trash like that!
Margaret, my ExH’s Last OW has three kids from three different dads also. She expected her three little girls to call whoever she was dating at the time “daddy.” She switched boyfriends often and my ExH was at least the 3rd “daddy” I knew of that hasn’t biologically fathered any of the children. I told him “Father’s Day must be the most confusing day of the year in her house.” I also experienced rages from my ExH. They were like clockwork. I would always get this tense feeling in my gut if too many weeks passed without a rage. I braces myself for what I knew was coming. I was told I emasculated him because I was so smart and independent (there’s a twisted compliment!). He felt useless because he ” knew I didn’t need him.” She needed him. He said “everyone knows how controlling you are!” Seriously. I was controlling…yet I had zero control. He was a walking mindfuck.
You know Margaret, the more I read about your asswipe the more I despise that cockroach! He left you a long time ago, yet he continued to eat the food you paid for and let you pay for everything else AND had the fucking nerve to tell you all those things. Your ex, just like my ex must think he is the shit, but in reality they are pathetic losers! You know the more I think about it now, when a man who has a full time job yet lets a woman pay for everything, all the way to his food he is not a man at all IMO… I made that mistake as well because mine was very good at pity playing, geez if it wasn’t for us would they have starved? I am sure you were asked this question, that how you end up paying for everything and were you that gullible to be taken advantage of that much? Because I was asked and I asked that same question to myself, its not so much that we were gullible, its that we were nurturers, givers, caretakers so they took full advantage of our good qualities… now I can look back and see the truth, why we end up being used like that and why it went to that extend.. Its like this, if you take a frog and throw it in hot water he will jump out and try to get away, smart frog…but if you put the frog in cold water and increase the heat degree by degree, frog will stay and get cooked. That’s what happened to all of us…
“gives the partner who originally had poor relationship skills a reason not to recover after an affair.”
First off, affairs can happy in any relationship, happy or unhappy. I know Shirley Glass talks about the “prevention myth,” which states that affairs only happen in unhappy marriages and she flat out says that’s false. I’m fairly certain CL even bullshit translated a couple articles that pointed out the very fact that x% of cheaters labeled their relationship as “happy,” furthering Glass’s comment. The cheater’s supposed “unhappiness” and upset over “poor relationship skills” are far more often only conveyed to the affair partner. It’s rationalization for what the cheating spouse has done. They’re protecting their ego. Second, last I checked affairs happen at all stages in a relationship, dating, engaged, married, retired couple etc. Is he really going to use that line on a couple who’s been married 33 days, gets in a fight and one spouse decides they’re going to go sleep with someone else? Or how many on this site found out AFTER getting married that the affair was going on BEFORE they got married, or that it started on their honeymoon? Yes, let’s indeed look at the person who “originally” had poor relationship skills, shall we?
Jorge, you should also check out Cortney’s Ted Talk on self deception here http://www.divorceminister.com/self-deception/
Right, it would seem a self-evident tautology that as my X said, “If I could end up in bed with someone else, there must have been serious problems in our relationship!” said defiantly, in an accusatory tone. Putting aside the obvious that he made a conscious choice to “end up” in bed with Schmoopie unless she slipped him a date-rape drug, this argument fails when you take into account YEARS of pathological lying about prior affairs (evidence of which I found 8 mos after DDay by accident), and the fact that X continued to say “I love you” to me every single day including the day of DDay, and to hug me, kiss me, and have sex with me. Hmmm, Jorge? What say you to this? Please tell me how being the victim of a massive con job was my fault?
This kind of manipulative BS is indicative of the reasons you do NOT go to marriage counseling with an abuser. For anyone who hasn’t read Lundy Bancroft’s “Why Does He Do That?”, take a look at an excerpt on this page: http://shellybear.wordpress.com/2008/01/14/what-couplesfamily-therapy-does-for-an-abuser-by-lundy-bancroft/ I believe cheating is a form of abuse, as I read others stories on this site I hear more than cheating was going on in the relationship. I recognize my ex escalated far beyond what most cheaters do when confronted with divorce. However, the tactics cheaters use in MC are almost identical to those used by domestic abusers.
I highly recommend Lundy’s book, it covers emotional and physical abuse. The excerpt above could have been written about my ex, with one exception; he would never have admitted to actually harming me, he was an expert at turning that table. This Lundy blog post nails that: http://lundybancroft.blogspot.com/2012/01/am-i-abusive-one.html
Our MC stopped when the counselor suggested ex might want to get tested for BPD, after we got in the car he went into a full blown rage over that. I had to reassure him that of course he didn’t have BPD and agree that the counselor was horrible in order to calm him down. And the irony of appeasing someone who is raging at ME because the MC suggested he had BPD? The irony is not lost on me. I was just too scared at the time to think it was at all funny. Found out later from reading one of his journal entries that those rages were manufactured, he literally wrote down that he uses anger as a means to an end. That is a point Lundy makes in his book, abusers know what they are doing. They do not lose control over themselves, that’s an excuse, along with “you made me do it”.
Datdumwuf, I had an ironic moment like this as well. X of course engaged in verbal abuse of me regularly over the years for which I ‘forgave’ him because I loved him and was so loyal to him. A month or so out from DDay I told him I was going to start counseling and without skipping a beat he said, “Is it for abuse?” Instantly, I lied and said “no,” because I was afraid of triggering another narcissistic rage from him. During our years together every month or so he would rage, delivering a screaming shouting monologue of accusations of me being stupid and selfish and making his life hell. First thing my therapist said to me after letting me talk for 3 sessions straight, “has your Ex ever had any psychiatric treatment that you are aware of?” I do believe he’s NPD, sociopathic and totally a pathological liar. So glad he’s out of my life.
Lundy Bancroft’s book saved my sanity equally with Chump Lady.
Our actions reveal who we are. Words are cheap. When a cheater commits adultery, he or she demonstrates what was in their heart. Jesus was clear on this. We act out of the overflow of our hearts. That’s what makes us “impure.” It is a spiritual truth. Adultery is not caused by a bad marriage. Adultery is caused by an adulterer and adulteress choosing sin.
More “primitive” people understood this truth. They did not stone the faithful spouses or censure them. These people understood those cheating were the problem. MC could take a few lessons from pretty much any major religion. Instead, they continue to spew this filth about shared responsibilities for adultery.
Also, he seems to think the epidemic in marriages is a matter of there being too many chumps out there getting married. Last time I checked, being a chumped didn’t bring STDs home to their spouse. Rape that spouse’s soul or squander the marital property. That’s what cheaters and adultery does. And that’s why it needs to be taken seriously.
No way Scotty, no way you do that to yourself. You do not even know the levels of messed up over there…. do not set your bar that in anyway ties your life to thier so called relationship. You be you.
Follow through on Jorge’s assumptions:
Picture the victim of a tsunami, water in her lungs, limbs twisted, covered in cuts from the debris that has torn up her skin, “Have you considered why you make such poor decisions about vacation destinations?”
LMAO – love it!
But one thing Tempest, you realise there wouldnt have have *been* a Tsunami if it werent for her choosing it as a vacation destination, right? 😉
Jorge is obviously a cheater, so there is no point in responding to his drivel. But what puzzles me is how adultery has an entire RIC built around it, with endless blame pointing at the victim, unlike any other crime or immorality. Why isn’t a business owner blamed when his partner embezzles the funds? Maybe it was his fault for trusting the partner with the password, or not giving him extra money he wanted or forgetting to start the coffee in the lunchroom. Why aren’t murderers excused, because obviously if the person they murdered hadn’t been in the wrong, they wouldn’t have had to murder them. How come the IRS won’t forgive me if I cheat on my taxes? After all, I probably had real need for the extra money and it isn’t FAIR for the IRS to not consider MY needs.
Eating is a more powerful need than sex, yet there is far more blame attached to crimes committed to satisfy a need for food — few people are going to excuse someone who stiffs a waitress for the bill, or robs a supermarket because they really wanted some Twinkies right then. But go and fuck someone other than your spouse, and hey! that’s okay! because obviously “there are two sides to every story” and the non-cheater must have driven the cheater to fuck elsewhere.
It’s like bizarro world or upside-down day.
I love the last few sentences of this post. After I found out about OW, I found myself saying, “F*** (my husband) and the whore he rode in on.”
If the RIC told the faithful spouse that cheaters can’t change and looked at the cheater and said its all your fault there would be no billable hours, so….. insert hopium here !
Truly could not make sense out of what Jorge was trying to say. Like, my brain just skipped right over it like a flat rock on a cold lake. Made no sense at all. Glad CL translated and then shredded.
If you’re around, realize that at some point in time, just about everyone has some life altering event that reshuffles their whole deck of cards. Often, it’s in a pretty bad way. And often it can’t be fixed and even arriving at a somewhat unhappy resolution is a long, pretty miserable process.
Let’s say, Jorge, that you suddenly find out you have a dread disease, one even worse than the ones you might imagine when your mind goes to those dark places that you really don’t ever want to visit. And the (potential) cure involves a lot of pain and no certainty as to whether it will work. And as you’re struggling to come to grips with your new, permanently altered reality, lots of the people you thought would have your back are telling you, “Tough luck, I know it sucks. But ya know, Jorge, it was really your poor diet, your smoking, your failure to exercise and see the doctor regularly, your failures and negligence that brought this on. Now suck it up and move on, big guy.”
And while we’re at it, Jorge, let’s throw into the mix that your wife gave you this disease – on purpose – and that she could basically care less what you do or don’t do as long as she isn’t bothered with what you’re dealing with. I know, hard to even wrap your mind around isn’t it?
Not sure why I bothered writing this admittedly imperfect analogy. You’re probably not anywhere around here. And, what the heck, you’re bulletproof. Aren’t you?
Great analogy chumpguy!
Chumpguy, that analogy was perfect! I also love the idea of a deck of cards being shuffled. That’s exactly how I feel. I was dealt a bad hand; the job now is to make sure the house doesn’t win.
Chump guy, that was perfect ! Great analogy ! It doesn’t matter if Jorge is around to read it or not. I have a feeling that even if he was, he still wouldn’t get it.
What does matter is that we understand, and because we do, we are more caring, supportive and loving human beings.
“Right, never at anytime, ever, on the face of the earth, has a poor prior relationship with a partner had anything to do with later cheating.”
Right Jorge… the fact he’d been effing multiple hookers a week for the 20 years before we met, during our brief courtship, and through the first 3 months of our marriage (when I discovered the truth) and the following 8 months while we were in marriage counseling?
Yep. I was totally to blame. And for 20 years of not knowing him and living on an entirely differenct continent too!I’m going to do the lotto tonight cos clearly I have SUPERPOWERS! 🙂
PlaY an extra number for me, that is some amazing superpower ya got there!
OMW!! this idiot sounds just like my ex, the cheating fuckface! In his case he was cheating on me from day one, DAY ONE! and his explanation for that “I thought you were too good for me and we wouldn’t last and I didn’t want to be alone.” that’s why he chased me for fucking months to give him a chance, while playing the good guy, still fucking the married skank and trolling on dating sites.
and why he continued to fuck the MOW, the ho-worker butterface yeast factory for over 3 years, “you were gone for 3 weeks every 6 months and you have no idea what that did to me and she was relentless”, yep poor poor motherfucker needed a shoulder to cry on and he gave in to her stalking. (insert rolling eyes here) I know what it did to him, for those 3 weeks he had to pay for his own food, entertainment, do his own fucking laundry and of course he didn’t get to go out to expensive restaurants, running the tab up, like there was no tomorrow, not to mention many other benefits so he kept falling between her legs, repeatedly for over 3 years.
After shit hit the fan, and being cruelly gaslighted all that time (it was all in my head you know), he said, “We have a great thing together, what we have is special (special my ass!) we are made for each other and I cant believe you are throwing us away for this bullshit, which is in the past now, but you just cant get past it, because you are self righteous and cant forgive anything or anyone” which is crock of shit btw because I forgave him for many things in the past. So its —-ALL MY FAULT—- for breaking us up, because I wont forgive him, not because he repeatedly cheated and lied and exploited.
I am sure you all noticed he didn’t take any responsibility for any of it and he blame shifted, excused and justified. I didn’t even bother with the other OW’s, dating sites or asked why he also cheated on me with them as well, because he would’ve either try to gaslight or give me bunch of other bullshit anyway with half truths, denials or outright lies again and it wasn’t worth it. I cut the loser loose, good riddance!!
The cheaters, its always everyone else’s fault why they cheated, you cant talk truth to the stupid!
It’s free and for 21 days. There’s so much pain here, I hope this helps someone.
I thought that was the point Scott – that people here could vent and unload years of pain 1) in a safe space, 2) with people who understand, 3) for full and *complete* catharsis in order in order to successfully move on.
I think Scott’s just trying to help with that pain. I don’t think he’s suggesting that we shouldn’t vent in our safe place, just maybe try some meditation too? Like meditation in addition to, not instead of?
I’ve never done the meditation thing, but I know there are people that swear by it. The more things that help, the better-right?
I swear by mindfulness which is attained through meditation. I’m not into Deepak Chopra at all but better authors are out there such as Jon Kabat-Zinn, Jack Kornfield, Thich Nhat Hanh and Pema Chodron. There are wonderful audio books – one that I find worth the money is the Science of Mindfulness by Ronald Siegel. He offers valuable, practical advice and covers a lot.
I’ve found mindfulness extraordinarily helpful in dealing with life after d-day but also in dealing with depression. I highly recommend reading mark Williams’ work and listening to his guided meditations. They don’t fix the pain but they help you to learn how to just be with it.
I’m totally pro meditation but Deepak Chopra can bite me. I had recently purchased the book The Spontaneous Fulfilment of Desire and was doing all of the sutras for you know, manifesting good things in my life, when the shit hit the fan. Ha, it was not my deepest desire to be a single pregnant lady with two stds living in public housing on foodstamps. I think I deserve a refund on that book. 🙂 And if anyone tells me my life is meant to be I’m going to put their head on a spike! Yes I’m glad I left my asshat cheater. But my life couldn’t possibly be more abysmal right now.
Although I know you were coming from a good place Scott. Just having a bad day.
Thanks, Scott. I’ve done these 21-day meditations several times since Chopra started offering them. What I like about them is the 21-day format and come through on my phone, which helps me get back into the “habit,” when, as things are now with me right now, I get too busy to hunt for a guided meditation. It’s also nice to know that many, many other people are doing the same thing. So I appreciate the link as I now won’t have to dig into my emails.
Scott: I signed up for this – independent of this blog post – but in listening to it I heard “You attract things to you that reflect what’s inside of you”. I used to buy that bullshit. I was an incredibly loving and attentive partner. I worked my ass off to be that way and I was happy to do it. But it allowed for me to be manipulated, gaslighted, cheated on and lied to – because I was SO focused on being a great partner to him, and when things weren’t working I focused on what I was doing wrong, or how I could change and do things differently to make it work. He used this to take advantage of me. While I am still going to try to finish the meditation course – I absolutely do not buy the bullshit that we attract what is in ourselves already.
I still leave my socks on the bathroom floor. Sometimes for a day or two. Sometimes I leave them in the bedroom now for a whole day.
I had candy for dinner. And a salad. And candy, Ain’t nobody’s business but mine!
So TimeHeals, if we follow Jorge’s reasoning, did your ex make you leave your socks on the bathroom floor?
LOL – It was one on the list. Oh well, no pain, no gain. Things are much nicer now.
Ditto! Yes things are much nicer now for me as well. I am no longer drained financially and its so much less laundry to do and shit to clean lol.
For the longest time, I really believed my ex cheated because he wasn’t happy with me. So I tried everything to make him happy. I read all those stupid, very harmful, reconciliation books that if I just did this and that, he will remain faithful. Faithful, my ass. All those changes I made just made him think he could get away with anything and I would still want him. Finally, I found a therapist who told me that cheating was a choice and had nothing to do with me. I reclaimed my sanity and got rid of the bastard who tried to crawl back into my life while still living with the OW. So did the OW cause him to attempt to cheat? Of course not. Cheater ex cheated and will cheat because that is who he is. Cheating is one of his coping life skills when the going gets tough. Life is guaranteed to be full of pleasure and pain. He is predictable: to avoid pain, he cheats. Nothing I did to contribute to that mind set. He owns that and the corresponding actions. My responsibility was to get the hell out of his way.
Uniquelyme, he doesn’t cheat to avoid pain, he cheats because he is a selfish, disordered freak but mostly he enjoys doing so. It doesn’t matter who you are or what you do, be the Ms. Universe, porn star in bed, loving, rich etc they will still cheat. Because its who they are and always will be, cheaters..
I just wanted to share this here. This has nothing to do with today’s CL post but I know you guys are gonna get this.
I just asked my husband if he voted today and he said “no”. So I told him to go out and vote because the polls are open til 8:00. I urged him to hurry because there is only about 20 minutes left to vote and he said this –“You don’t tell me what to do!” LOL.
Yeah. That’s the way he behaves. He’s been doing it for a long time. I had to bite my tongue.
What the cheater doesn’t realize is that if the marriage was miserable for her, it was probably miserable for her betrayed husband as well.
The difference is in how you handle a miserable marriage? Do you try to make the marriage better, for both of you, or do you think of only yourself and cheat?
Uniballer1965, your post resonates. That and the fact that 1965 was a very good year. Marriages are challenging, as is any healthy relationship. Marriage requires hard work, intentionality, day in and day out, and respect. Looking back though my ex was not nearly as invested in the marriage as I was ( and he certainly carried around the belief that the grass was always greener…) his actions repeatedly communicated to me that I and our marriage meant very little to him. Long hours at work. Long hours at the gym. Friends who were sketchy. An inability to listen. An inability to share the spotlight. He sabatoged our marriage from day one and can’t we all say this? When by choice he allowed someone else into his life, it was flattering to his poor ego and the beginning of our end. Forget me and all those years together, and our three beautiful children, who had loved him unconditionally and had supported him throughout many challenges, and who were also abandoned by a man they no longer recognized. My ex checked out every time life got rough and when he, unbeknownst to me, hooked up with his Schmoopie he became more and more “miserable” to be around. Miserable marriages happen when a spouse checks out. It is a choice. When my ex began his affair this very effectively ended my 28 year relationship (and 20 year marriage) with him. I think marriages can be improved upon when issues need to be addressed and both parties love one another and are committed to their union but when the actions are blatantly disrespectful (infidelity is this) that is when a marriage IMHO can not be saved. Do not believe for one minute that anything you did caused her to cheat. I loved my ex. Even when he struggled, left clothes on the floor, facial hair in the sink, worked long hours and was grumpy. But it’s never about those issues anyway. The only real issue we ever fought about was one: Do you love me, and can I trust that you are in this with me? The disordered circle issues, much like Jorge FuckYou, and never resolve them. So you are left feeling empty. Pay attention to your gut. Pay attention to your spouse’s actions. Mine told me all I needed to know. I disengaged when I realized I was fighting for something I could never have. (Chump Nation helped too.)
I am so glad I read this post today. Almost a year out from d.day and I am no closer to understanding what happened to my marriage. My STBX didn’t have to make excuses for his affair or sexual interaction with others it was done for him by our church. I had a female elder in our church give five pages of biblical references two months after d.day all based on what she considered to be the reason my STBX cheated. According to here deep insight into my marriage I suffered from a spirit of rejection which resulted in me drawing more rejection to me. Basically he cheated because I rejected him, ironically none of the references she wanted to work through with me explained why he chose to only have sex with other men. Nor did she ever talk to me about what my marriage was really like because if she had taken the time she would have realised I was constantly on edge turning myself inside out to make my marriage work. All while STBX denied being unfaithful and constantly questioned my state of mind for thinking anything that was contrary to his version of reality.
And to this day I still bear the weight of responsibility for ending my marriage from STBX and my old church as they consider my action to be of greater sin then his 8 years if infidelity.
I praise God for real friends and blogs like Chump Lady.
You know what Sammie, screw them all, this is your life and I think you wasted enough of it on this loser. Now you get to enjoy the rest of your life as you see fit. Who cares what they think…
The thing that gets so often over looked is that the behavior of the betrayed spouse starts deteriorating when they start to get the feeling that something isn’t quite right, but they don’t know exactly what that is.
Hindsight is always 20/20 but my ex started checking out of our marriage a solid year before I realized that there was something very wrong. My head thought it was the external stress in our lives at that time so I spackled over his behavior like crazy but I think my subconscious knew on some level. Consequently I had some pretty fantastic mood swings during that time. I would vacillate between being a ‘Stepford’ wife and losing my cool over the smallest crap.
The bitch of it is that my fantastic mood swings, that were a direct result of the way he was acting, just fed into his belief that he was justified in cheating which is the ultimate abuse that cheaters levy against their spouses while they’re having an affair. I see it all clearly now, but from the outside looking in I probably looked like a total lunatic! He then used that lunacy against me when he was justifying his reasons to have an affair-that and I didn’t take time off to take care of him when he had his elective lasic eye surgery. He gave me less than a day’s notice for that! That still makes me laugh whenever I think of it. What a total loser!
“The thing that gets so often over looked is that the behavior of the betrayed spouse starts deteriorating when they start to get the feeling that something isn’t quite right, but they don’t know exactly what that is.”
EXACTLY! same here. I felt in my gut something was wrong, something was very off but I just couldn’t put my finger on it. On the surface he seemed so loving, devoted and affectionate, except he complained ED so I was sexually frustrated, like others I get hit on everyday but never once did I ever consider cheating and having my needs met. How was I supposed to know it was more exciting for him to get a bj, sex in the car, parking lots and work bathroom with someone else’s wife before he would come home…Everyday he told me how much he loved me, he never loved anyone like this and yes ” I was his soul mate” and wanted to grow old with me and kept telling me my perceptions were wrong (there were some red flags) it was all in my head, my mind was going crazy etc talk about extreme gaslighting! .BUT I knew deep down, there was something…lo and behold I was right all along and I wasted a decade because of this loser. I think it was lovedajackass that said she hates the OW, in my case I don’t hate any of them, but I hate and despise this loser and I had no idea I was capable of such hate towards another. I am so glad he is out of my life and now I am happier, more content and so peaceful. Oh yeah, cheaters suck!
Nicolette, I paged up from the bottom (to read the latest posts) and hadn’t revealed your name when I started reading. My first thought was, ‘when did I post this’? THAT is how exactly your experience and feelings match mine. The only difference was the ED but everything else, including his gaslighting, declarations of undying love and complete happiness, my not hating the OW (women, poss?) but being shocked that I could hate and despise some one with the intensity I do (I’m 51 for God’s sake – I have never felt this level of disgust with anyone in my life before, sure, I’ve felt dislike for a very few, but, mainly I’ve hated the sin not the sinner – this must be the first time I’ve ever really hated anyone. I don’t like it, and bizarrely it’s yet another reason I hate him, he’s changed who I am, killed a part of me I used to love. I understand the philosophy that states no one makes you feel anything, but frankly, now I totally believe that’s just an exercise in semantics and ultimately just another victim-blaming tactic. The disgusting cheater wasn’t chained to me, he didn’t have to deceive me, he didn’t have to turn my reality into a lie. I’ll never forgive him nor stop hating him for doing that).
Yes it is amazing isn’t it how similar our experiences and feelings… Just like yours, my ex also killed a part of me, that I know now that I will never be able to get it back. You know it took me such a long time to wrap my mind around, thinking how could he have sex with some disgusting skank, then come home, wrap his arms around me, telling me how much he loves me, missed me and how he always looked so forward to end of his day, because he knew he would be coming home to me to see my face and get to hold me in his arms –thirty minutes later–. That right there blows my mind to this day and makes me want to barf, not to mention when I remember all the times that he touched me makes my skin crawl now…
“The disgusting cheater wasn’t chained to me, he didn’t have to deceive me, he didn’t have to turn my reality into a lie. I’ll never forgive him nor stop hating him for doing that.”
YES and YES to THIS!!!! ^^^^^^^
Following his mobile phone records I learned he must have left our bed after making love with me, and crudely put, had barely wiped off his dripping cock before he was texting her. I cannot express how shocked and repulsed I am by that knowledge.
They all are disgusting swine’s!!!