I don’t have any sassy snark for you guys today, sorry.
Last night I learned my dearest friend Yoma lost her husband, Warren yesterday. When I read the news, I burst into tears.
Of course, it’s a pretty ordinary event to be widowed at 78. What’s not ordinary is to be that age and have only been married for 2.5 years.
Yoma was once a chump. She was once married to a very successful academic who ran off with his office secretary back in the 1970s, leaving her with their two daughters. They packed the station wagon for him, as I recall the story. (The schmoopie lovefest resulted in a marriage that only lasted a year, before the OW left him.)
Yoma was my divorce warrior. She supported me like no other person could, because she’d lived it. She had a front row seat to my two divorces, sat with me in court through custody trials, poured that 3 a.m. bowl of raisin bran. She hated my cheating ex and saw through that creep when no one else did. And she single-handedly financed my liberation campaign to escape him.
I can’t tell you how much I love Yoma, and what a model of mightiness she’s been to me. The genesis of Chump Lady comes from her. I’ve witnessed her reinventing her life since 1992, when we first met as editors at CSIS in Washington, D.C. She’d been divorced for many years by that point, and her single life was one of adventure and cultural gluttony. (“Let’s get tickets to the Vermeer exhibit!” “I’m going to Sante Fe for the summer. You should come!” “Have you read this? You ought to.”)
Pretty soon I was joining in with her on those adventures. I’ve driven backwards on to ferry boats in Western Scotland with her, hiked up Acadia National Park, walked the beaches of Lake Huron, gotten up at ungodly hours so she could photograph things, carried her luggage, driven the car, and provisioned the woman with snacks and the proper tea. (She’s British and has firm opinions on tea.) You couldn’t ask for a better (if more exhausting) companion.
But not everyone could be Yoma’s companion. Lesser souls have tried. In the decades after her divorce, she dated some men. Some decent. Some losers. But she was content being Yoma. She loved her freedom, and had pretty jam-packed life.
So imagine my surprise when she moved to a retirement community a few years ago and told me she was hanging out with this widower Warren and it was “serious.”
Serious?! You’ve only been there two months!
“Well, yes, you can’t waste time at our age.”
They were married within the year.
Warren was quite the eligible bachelor, but he only had eyes for Yoma. When she moved in, he invited her to join the nature photography club, which apparently had exactly one member — Warren.
But they spoke each other’s love language — flower photography. One of Yoma’s many reinventions was to become a photographer, and a really fine one, with exhibitions and sales. She’d met her match with Warren, who probably had more gadgetry than she had. It was a bit of a competition.
I met Warren for the first time at their wedding, but I really got to know him later when we all went to Longwood Gardens together.
Yoma and I were strolling about doing our thing, Warren was dragging around tripods doing his thing. Then I remember sitting on a bench with Yoma, and Warren comes up excitedly and says “YOMA! The Siberian iris! THEY’RE BLOOMING! You MUST SEE THIS!”
So we get up, and turn a corner, and lo and behold, banks of glorious iris. Yoma is swooning. And Warren is swooning. And they’re talking complicated photography talk to one another and I thought: “Yeah, he’s the ONE.”
He is the perfect mate for her.
And he was — intelligent, kind, a birder, Quaker, geeky in the ways she was geeky. She wasted no time dragging him on adventures. (I warned him to pack snacks, and get the Right Sort of Tea.) The Pacific Northwest, Budapest, England, New York City.
And then this fall Warren got sick. And sicker. But I never thought it was so serious. If nothing else, Yoma has the strength of ten and would see him through.
But he passed away yesterday afternoon. And she told me: “I was so lucky to have that time with him.”
So that’s my message today here, folks. Don’t waste your time.
Cheaters rob us of so many things — our children, our wedding china, our retirement accounts. But the most precious thing they rob of us is time. Cake-eating comes at a terrible price. And frankly, so does the paralysis after losing a cheater. Good people exist. You might not partner up again until you’re in your 70s and that’s not a tragedy. Just don’t stay stuck. Get out there. LIVE.
OMG, the IRISES, they’re BLOOMING. Come SEE THIS!
RIP Warren.
This is inspirational. I needed to read something like this today. Very strong post.
Ditto, Supreme Chump: Perfect words at the perfect time and we thank you. Also give BIG Hugs to your friend for not giving up and living life.
Condolences to both you and Yoma, Tracy. Warren sounded like an inspirational person. An role model of how we can be. Thanks for this post.
opps….”a role model”………
Not even 5:30 PST and I’m crying like a baby. Thanks for the lovely story. My thoughts are with you and Tom’s.
Crying like a baby too!! What a wonderful way to tell someone’s story. I’m sorry to all. RIP Warren.
Darn auto correct!! Tom’s is what I meant.
It fixity again! .yoma
What a beautiful entry. Thank you, Tracy.
Thank you Tracy. When I couldn’t make ends meet, to pay for my attorney and forensic accountant, I took a second job at Longwood. It is Disneyworld for plants if you will. What struck me most as I greated guests at one of the premier gardens on the planet was how eager the visitors were to relax and spend TIME enjoying every inch. I’ve never been so grateful for an opportunity to people watch and observe loving, caring, respectful relationships. Granted, the folks that come are generally well heeled and in public. However, the care and concern I saw among couples that were older, infirm, immobile, incontinent was a WONDER to behold. A blessing really.
Respect, admiration, love and friendship. Patience with their partner. And I knew at one of the ugliest times in my life – filled with lying, cheating, dishonesty and deceit that there was no more time for that crap.
So I too found someone who values what I value, likes some of what I like and is willing to learn along the way about a new stage of life in a way we didn’t expect but have come to enjoy. Together. Guess what we did last week? Strolled through Longwood Gardens. It’s beautiful.
Agreed, CL. Time and life is too precious to waste. It’s stories like these that expose how shallow the cheater lifestyle is. I work in hospice; so, I get these reminders daily. The rich lives are the ones where one has truly invested in people….not used them like cheaters do.
Thank you for a sweet poem of a column today, Chump Lady. Our thoughts and prayers go out to Yoma and Warren and their loved ones, including you.
That’s the thing about love when it’s good, you know. There’s never enough. There is always room and desire for more. More time together, more touching and talking and travel. Just . . . more. And at the same time somehow, it’s always enough. Your cup is always, always overflowing.
There’s a great little eulogy about this mystery at the end of “The Fault in Stars,” a movie about two people who loved deeply if not long enough.
“Hello. My name is Hazel Grace Lancaster. And Augustus Waters was the star-crossed love of my life. Ours is an epic love story and I probably won’t be able to get more than a sentence out without disappearing into a puddle of tears. Like all real love stories, ours will die with us, as it should. You know, I’d kind of hoped that he’d be the one eulogizing me, because there is really no one else… Yeah, no, um… I’m not gonna talk about our love story, ’cause I can’t. So instead I’m gonna talk about math. I’m not a mathematician, but I do know this: There are infinite numbers between zero and one. There’s point one, point one-two, point one-one-two, and an infinite collection of others. Of course, there is a bigger set of infinite numbers between zero and two or between zero and a million. Some infinities are simply bigger than other infinities. A writer that we used to like taught us that. You know, I want more numbers than I’m likely to get, and God, do I want more days for Augustus Waters than what he got. But Gus, my love, I cannot tell you how thankful I am for our little infinity. You gave me a forever within the numbered days. And for that I am… I am eternally grateful. I love you so much.”
Whenever I see this movie, I will think of Yoma and Warren and their “little infinity.”
Tracy – holding you and your cherished Yoma in my heart.
Would we all be so fortunate to have a Yoma in our lives. Perhaps, we can live authentically and fearlessly and be the Yoma for others.
Amazing story CL. Really nice to hear that even after everything she had been through, she shined, and did eventually have someone. But she was fine just being her too. Very inspirational. RIP Warren.
I’m sorry to hear about your loss. He sounds like a lovely man and your friend Yoma is an inspiration.
What a beautiful way to remember him.
A heartwarming story of love – a perfect lift on a cold, overcast, gray day in Canada!
Love this story Tracy – thank you for sharing it. My heart goes out to Yoma and I’m glad she and Warren found each other. I wish I had a Yoma in my life and I hope someday to find a Warren.
You and your dear friend are in my thoughts. Oddly enough, I was speaking with my mom this morning about this very thing. Good friends of my parents’ are going thru a similar situation. My father was just visiting with his sick friend who may not make it past a few more months and they were both crying about the sudden change in his life. He is realizing that this Christmas will likely be his last. Life can change in an instant. We really need to live a full joyful life while we have it.
I remember telling my exhusband many times, that I needed to have JOY in my life again. I warned him that I would find it even if that meant that I had to leave him behind. I am finally finding it!!!!!! It’s not always easy and I still have some bad days but those days are far less now that I have moved on!!!!!!
Peace to us all! Smell those roses!!
I am so sorry for Yoma not to have had more time with Warren, but I am sure that in the next life they will be together earlier. Oddly, I am crying as if I had known them, your words are so touching. But I also think I am crying of happiness because you gave us hope again and a confirmation that life becomes so rich and full without the cheater, even if we don´t find another partner ever or for a long time. I have noticed that I used to firmly know that I have good luck and great things would always happen to me. They still did, even with my cheater, but he hated my counting on my good luck rather than meticulously planning everything to the last detail. But now that he is gone, it is as if the response to my desires are limitless. Solutions to my problems have come gradually, and good people, work opportunities, money are all beginning to flow again. So your post today is also a reminder that my Warren will come too, sooner or later. Thank you CL. Thank you Yoma.
That is so sweet Tracy. Hugs to Yoma. 🙁
Thank you. Sorry for your and Yoma’s loss.
Thanks for this today, CL and very sorry for your loss. I hope Yoma knows that her incredible support of you has spawned this place of compassion for which we are all grateful.
What a wonderful and inspiring story. Tears came to my eyes when I saw the picture at the bottom. Yoma was glowing. CL, you are truly fortunate to have a friend like her.
Huge hugs to you and Yoma! Needed to read this today. Thank you. xoxoxox
Holding you all in the Light.
CL, you made me cry. Such a sweet, inspirational story.
My latest anthem is the song “I believe ” by OneRepublic. It is about living life to its fullest. One of my favorite lines is about falling in love, and having it hurt so bad because that’s how you know you gave it your all.
I am glad Yoma found Warren; I hope I find my own Warren one day. Preferably before 78, but until then, I love my kids, and I love my life.
Jedi hugs to all.
Sorry for your loss, and thank you for this post and for my mission statement: “her single life was one of adventure and cultural gluttony”.
My love and thoughts are with Yoma today and also with you Tracy. I do remember you mentioning Yoma to me on one of my posts a long time ago. It gave me hope then and today’s post has also given me hope. Oh how I wish that I had, had a Yoma in my life. How fortunate I would have been to have known a person like her.
We do. It’s Tracy.
My love and compassion go out to you and Yoma. I am so sorry and so amazed at her journey. The judge makes my divorce final tomorrow… I needed this. I needed to remember that I barely lived in the those 30+years, that my kids don’t really know who their mother is, the joyful, adventurous, artistic, crafty (in a nice way) girl that I was. This gives me so much hope, so much hope. Now on to be mighty and let my walls ring… Thank you!
Ringinmyownbell, me too ! My kids have said to me that they didn’t know that I was so funny. I lost me the day I married MFPOS. It’s wonderful to have myself back. A wounded self, but me all the same.
Tracy, how wonderful to have Yoma. She sounds so inspirational. Having a someone like that in your life is priceless. Offer my condolences to Yoma, may Warren rest in peace. What an inspirational post. Thank you so much Tracy. In a way, YOU are our Yoma. You have created a place where many “Yoma’s” live. Thank you for all you do, I know I would not be in the same place without Chump Nation.
Beautiful love story. I love it that Yoma was just being her wonderful self and someone saw her and thought, “I MUST have her” just because. Warren saw a spark in her. She didn’t have to jump through hoops or do anything magical. She didn’t have to earn it. He saw her worth.
Yes, conniered, this! “He saw her worth.”
Beautiful love story, CL. My condolences to Yoma for the loss of her husband and the sadness you are feeling today.
Yoma sounds like a woman who grabs life by the horns and Warren saw that in her and embraced it. What a man.
Another love-hope story in late life to add…
Set up: When my XH was in “his Fog” pre DDay for me but into his 3rd affair year with OW, and as he was cunningly reissuing my laundry list of flaws ( i now know as blameshifting) about why he was unhappy in the marriage….i was getting very weary from (unknowingly) doing a pick me dance.
Story: During that time, I went to a professional conference and had lunch with a “Yoma”. She did not know my story but was bubbling over with hers that day. Her first marriage was to an alcoholic violent cheating man. She stayed as long as she could for the kids. Left him. Was single for 15 years. On her 65th birthday the week before, she got Medicare, a hearing aid, and engaged. She said Yes to the fella who had been pining for her for years…and was glowing as she told her story.
Her words were hope. I did not know a bomb would soon explode and nearly destroy me. But i witnessed first hand that True Love could come again…even after All my hair turned gray. I thought about this chance encounter many times before and after the divorce.
Sending (((hugs))) of Hope – for whatever you want and need – to fellow chumps during the holidays.
Chumpette, I think those kinds of experiences happen just when we need them. Those people are angels in disguise.
Agreed 🙂
Oh Tracy. What a beautiful way to honor your friend and her love. Thank you for sharing their story with us and for your message. It hit me like a brick between the eyes and that’s a good thing. Hugs to you and Yoma.
Thanks for this inspiring story, CL.
I’m inspired to have affirmation that it is wonderful to find joy in what I am and what I do, from which more joy will spring.
Big hugs–you found a real treasure in Yoma, and she in you, and also in Warren. He lives in her heart and spirit.
What a fantastic and touching column. Thank you! It is my hope and prayer that for every moment of torment and agony the chumpiverse has experienced, a hundred days of joy and tranquility follows. Yoma certainly exemplifies that it can and will happen for us all.
This is the most beautiful and resonant CL post I’ve ever read. Thank you for the inspiration, and keeping Yoma and Warren in my thoughts and prayers. Big hugs headed your way.
What a couple! And what a loss. Very special people who were blessed to have found each other. My wise beyond his years son said, when he and his long time girlfriend (totally mutually) broke up, “Let’s not cry over what we lost, let’s be happy for what we had and shared.” I know he didn’t come up with this himself, but it hit me as worth remembering.
And what a nice eulogy, Tracey. Loved the pictures, too.
Whooops, sorry! TRACY, not Tracey.
Tracy…thanks for sharing this beautiful love story. What an inspiration Yoma is to all of us chumps.
Almost 20 years ago, I lost a good one. The kind you miss with every cell in your body, find yourself missing and crying for many years later. It was after his goodness that I discovered the disordered world of cheaters through hard, personal experience. Thankfully, that good man loved me enough that I knew I was worth honesty and fidelity, and I didn’t waste time on excuses, pick-me dances or looking back.
The big thing that cheating took from me was the faith that there could ever be another good man who could love me the way I need (and deserve) to be loved. And then a ray of sunshine showed up one day, with a big smile and a wonderful laugh. A good one.
I’m working (from home), and sitting across from him; he’s my husband now. Sometimes I look up and catch him smiling at me. He’s in love. So am I. We’re not spring chickens, so who knows how long we have, but we are going to love hard and enjoy every second for as long as we can.
Love this so, so much, Tracy, mourn hard for Yoma and Warren.
And Champ, not Chump, yep. My good one was also my cheater. I know, I know, no one gets that. He was AWESOME. WE were awesome. But he got sick, fucked it all up, and it changed everything. He regrets everything so very deeply and has done EVERYTHING to help me heal from his selfishness. I have searched and searched for my joy. I still search. I lived joyfully, with passion, taking, relishing, in every experience I could. And I know happiness is supposed to be a choice, and I choose it and choose it, daily. But somehow it’s like I am joy Teflon. My GOD it pisses me off. I sometimes wonder if I imagined my joyfulness, then my youngest told me the other day that she remembers how great I was, how much I laughed and had fun, just being a dick of a Mum, and how great WE were together. She understands what happened and why, and we talk about the path forward. But I know if she remembers it, and told me completely unprompted, that it WAS real, not something I imagined for more than twenty years. I thought I would find it again one day, but now I just want meh. That kind of joyfulness should be easy, but seems like a pipe dream. It isn’t anything to do with another person, I don’t want or need another relationship. I just want peace, then joy. So I keep forcing myself through these years of craptasticicity. I haven’t even found the “j” yet, let alone the “oy!” But keep moving or the crap sticks hard!
Horsesrcumin, I may not have been clear, but my ‘good one’ was not a cheater. He really was a good one. After his death, tipping toes into the dating pool…that’s how I found the wonderful world of all things screwed up. Honestly, before I met my now-husband, I was pretty sure that there was no such thing as a normal, nice, single guy (by the time they hit my age group).
I pray you find your mojo again. You don’t have to stay stuck just because a selfish cheater apologizes. Whether you stayed because you think that an apology means you have to, or you are single again and having trouble finding your joy again, please know that the greatest joy you will ever know begins within your own heart and giving yourself permission to be happy.
Hugs.
Hey champ. No I knew your good guy was not a cheater. Until mine lost his mind at the 21 year mark he was genuinely a truly great guy. But now he is a cheater. No way back. And no apologies nor living well change that. I honestly wish he’d died and I could mourn his death instead of co-parenting with someone who totally broke my heart. It is what it is. He did it and he can’t undo it. Sad though because we really were pretty damn awesome. I push on alone. Not sad I’m alone per se. I like me. Just sad he threw the wonderful away when emotionally unstable and that you can’t go back. Only forward 🙂
Yay Champ, more hope on this gloomy, gloomy day… Thank you… maybe one day I will find a loving, regular man, who has the sense of adventure that I do… Much love to our mighty Chump Nation.
I am so sorry for Yoma’s loss and yours Chump Lady. This was a beautiful story and one that made me cry a little too. I will be thinking of you and your friend a lot today.
Yoma’s life is inspirational. If I could pick a way to live, it would be the same way she has. Traveling, exploring new interests, experiencing different types of relationships without fear…that’s the way to live. Thanks for this inspirational post today CL!
Thank you for this, it’s very moving and meaningful!
A wonderful story. She sounds like a great person.
This also gives a lot of hope that the prospect of a satisfying marriage for someone on “the other” side of 50 is not out the window.
A beautiful story and a reminder that staying stuck and living for the kids and work isn’t the required ending for all of us chumps. Thanks
Thank you for this CL!! Very moving, very inspiring. I want to be YOMA, when I grow up!
What a beautiful piece about these beautiful souls. Ever since I read your story back when I stumbled onto this site in mid-2013, I have made it a personal goal to be a Yoma for someone should the day come where they need one. I’m so very sorry for her loss.
This was one of the ladies you told me about when I wrote you last year. I still re-read that letter on low days because not everyday is Tuesday, sometimes it is just a Monday. It was not just your whit and wisdom that spoke to me; their stories inspired me. https://www.chumplady.com/2013/11/dear-chump-lady-when-does-it-get-better/
You told me to “take the long view of life”. It reinforced my motto when my husband walked out, close to this time a few years ago: This is just something that happened. It did not happen to me. There are more years or not, but the larger scheme or plot is more magnificent than the mere chapters he ripped out.
I am sorry for Yoma’s loss. But I hope you perhaps will tell her there is a chump out there who is finishing her doctorate and when she needs an extra lift, she remembers her story.
Add me to the list of inspired chumps working on finishing doctorates in the midst of D-day-divorce from cheater. Thank you for sharing Yona’s inspiring story here and in your letter Dr. We are all in good company. You company gives me a sense of peace, although I would never want this for anyone and wish we met under different circumstances. So many good messages. I love seeing the long view of one’s life. Like humans in the scope of planet life, this cheater shit is a blip on the screen.
This is perfect for me today, thank you. My divorce will be final tomorrow. I’m thrilled, but feeling a little destabilized. This nightmare will be over tomorrow, as we don’t have kids and the settlement will be quickly finished. I won’t have to interact with or waste energy on him ever again. Part of me is feeling a little adrift, given that since D-day two years ago I’ve spent so much time, energy and emotion dealing with him and the shit he did to me. Now that opposition is being removed, and part of me is like; what do I do with myself now.
Well, your post answered it for me. Get busy living, and don’t waste another day. Forge about a day; don’t let him steal one more MINUTE from me with his toxic garbage. I’m so lucky to have so much to live for. Thanks for reminding me of that and redirecting me.
I just read something about that today that you might find helpful: The Honeymoon Period After Divorce http://ow.ly/FTqSB
Congrats on the first day of the rest of your life.
Today’s post is meaningful on so many levels. A mighty ChumpNation thank you, Tracy and Yoma. With an equal measure of comfort..
Reading everyone’s posts between meetings today made me recall a favorite quote:
Life is ten thousand joys, ten thousand sorrows.
Rumi
What a beautiful story! I hope to be a Yoma for others one day! She sounds wonderful!
Condolences to you and your dear friend and her and Warren’s family. Thank you for sharing something so personal and inspirational. What a timely reminder of what is truly important!
Testing comment
Beautiful post. I will keep you all in my heart, and I am so sorry for your loss. Yoma and Warren’s story made me cry, and it gives me hope.
ChumpLady that was beautiful. I enjoyed reading it. I am deeply sorry for Yoma’s and your loss as I can tell you adored him as well.
Thank you for a beautiful and moving story. May Warren’s memory be a blessing. May Yoma be comforted with all who mourn.
That is a beautiful love story. Your Friend met her soul mate late in life and this shows we are never too old for love.
It also helps me in that I am in the early stages of this nightmare. STBX left for OW just over two months ago after being together for 36 years. I have spent every day crying and miserable since then. This reminds me that he is not worthy of my tears and that I am wasting my life in misery for a cheating POS. I have wasted enough of my life on him.
Sorry for your loss, CL, and for Yoma. You are both an inspiration. I’m glad she and Warren found each other.
Life is beautiful, and your friend Yoma is beautiful and so are you. My condolences in Yoma’s loss of her husband Warren.
Your friendship has touched me and inspired me.
Adventure, cultural gluttony and being fully yourself – for yourself and for those you love – sounds like a pretty sweet roadmap on the proper way to do life. Thank you, Tracy, for sharing Yoma with us. My sympathies on her loss and the sadness you all are feeling.
Also, Tracy what an absolutely gorgeous picture of Yoma standing under that magnificent flowering tree! They say a picture says a thousand words. I’m so glad you have her in your life and as someone said here you are our Yoma!
I didn’t get an e-mail notifying of this post. I’m so glad I logged on anyway for my fix(I would have re-read an older post) or I would have missed this.
Thank you for sharing Yoma’s beautiful life story and love story. Please give her a huge “Chumpy hug”, Sending love, light, and warmth this evening.
We’re still working out technical issues on the blog, unfortunately subscriptions are one of them. But hopefully we’ll get it fixed soon.
Beautiful tribute, CL.
What a beautiful story. I have remarried a wonderful man and know I am very lucky. But lately have been upset with ex trying to re-enter our children’s lives after a 3 year hiatus. I was struggling because I have been letting the sociopath have space in my head, while knowing he does not give me a second thought.
This story reminds me that we the chumps, now free of these monsters, have it all. We need to make sure we let them go and enjoy the good people in this world and in our lives.
Jedi hugs and good energy to you Yoma, so sorry for your loss, so happy that you had Warren in your life. I doubt it helps, but you inspire me to take my life back, thank you. If you should read these comments at some point, please explain how I can get my BFF to bring me good tea. May your heart stay full of the life you love.
Oh, Tracy, I am so sorry for your loss. A life well-lived, though, right? How is Yoma doing? I am praying for her. Without Yoma at your side, Chump Nation, would not be here, and so many of us chumps would still be allowing our cheaters to steal our precious days.
FWIW – I came across this article today. It was US – for 35 yrs.
Until it wasn’t. >that fucking fast<
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/winifred-m-reilly/36-things-i-know-after-36_b_6321032.html
Sending hugs to both of you……..
Yay….I got past capcha…..have been trying for weeks1 Can I join the white list? Pretty Please?
Dear all,
Sorry for being a little off topic, but what is the best way to let someone know that her husband is a serial cheater? I know someone, but not too well, in this situation and the husband is a horrible cheater – the worst is that she is the most responsible and sweet person I have ever met, with two young kids, who I think has no clue about his cheating. They have been together for about 15 years or so if I am not wrong and she kind of gave up career and everything in order to follow him in different locations abroad, where he had to work during all this time. I don’t have her phone number, I don’t even interact with her, I just know her from a far, but we have some common contacts (again, these not very close either). We are more or less part of the same social/professional community now, but it happened that we didn’t interact in person by now, especially after the birth of her second child, when she became less social. I know the husband pretty well though and we used to work together. The guy is a jerk not only with his wife, but in general in life! I might be doing a mistake, but I feel like she needs to know….it’s too horrible. I could email her directly, I could try to contact her on facebook, but how do you tell someone by email who doesn’t really know you that she is being cheated?….And what if he intercepts the messages from the beginning? I thought about reaching out to some closer friends of her, and I did try with someone, but this person doesn’t want to get involved, of course …What do you suggest?
One of the questions I was asked was: what is your motivation? Part of my motivation, or better said the initial trigger, might be that I was very very close to fall in his trap – he tried to use “his charms” on me, the same with a good colleague and friend of mine (when she was just starting with a new a boyfriend!!! – thanks God they are now into a 1 year long beautiful relationship) and this is how I figured him out for a bit in the beginning. Then it became much easier to spot his lies and manipulations with almost anyone around (he might be a sociopath). His wife has a blog that I came across (he even “promoted” it!) and where she even mentions him from time to time with so much love and devotion… What many of us know is that he is a cheater, who, in addition, spent his nights partying and getting drunk while his second baby was just born …and he keeps doing that. However, I have a feeling that within his more intimate circle of friends and his family, he seem a saint, given the way she talks/writes about him, so who could ever imagine?
What do you think? I know I am a complete outsider, but for me it’s like physical abuse, I feel someone has to intervene.
Maria: It depends on how well you know the wife–most of us here think we should tell people if their spouses are cheating. If you have some kind of evidence or can provide a concrete tip about her husband’s activities/schedule, but don’t know the wife well, it may be best to send the evidence anonymously.
Sometimes you just need to plant the seed. Good luck.
Tempest, Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, I don’t think I can stay anonymous, I have some evidence such as a few text messages and a few emails when he tried to send me some “kinky” messages or he was talking about a long term affair that he had 10 years ago (!); also a few text messages that would prove what he was doing more exactly when he wasn’t home (I am sure he was lying to her about this) or messages complaining about his “roommate” (her) and some of her habits. But I don’t know if this enough ….What would prove that these messages were in fact from him? But, in case she confronts him, he will know it was me ….I don’t have any other proofs …
To contact someone else who knows better? Maybe her sister? This is the best idea that could cross my mind. Have nothing else …
Maria – I hate to say this but – MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. No – in the courts of law – this is NOT physical abuse – sorry. I mean that with grace and with experience. If you don’t have absolute concrete evidence to show the wife – she will hate you and think you are out to destroy her relationship with her husband. It happened to me!! (yeah, ignorant me) Let some other karma take care of this (it did in my case). I know you hurt for her, but she will have to figure it out on her own. You are just far too distant to even plant a seed. I believe you have to be much closer to the situation to reveal it – like the cheaters spouse calling up the spouse of the other cheater, with solid proof. That’s really the only way, I think.
I’ll just go a step further and suggest you send her an anonymous note to check out Chump.lady.
Mind your own business, you say? And be one of the people who does nothing while this shit goes on – and goes on for years?
Fuck that. Its time to be honest, no matter how distant she is. Provide your proof – which just so happens to be the truth. Also, direct her here – she will thank you in the end.
If you hide this and it comes out eventually – she will hate you for not telling her when you could have ended this crap years previous.
YES! Go for it if you have proof, Maria. Otherwise, and this is just from my experience – it won’t have any impact. In fact, it worked the opposite with me – CHUMP me wouldn’t believe any of it. So I turned on the messenger big time. NO proof.
Dear SheChump,
I do have convincing proof, but the problem is I won’t be able to show her this (plenty of very clear text messages) and some details about his “not at home” nights, other than face to face. I am not very sure I would send her something like this in writing…too risky. However, I could contact her as a first step and then take it from there…But I am not sure if this is the best way to do it either. HOW should I do it? Contact her directly by facebook or email? As I said in another comment, what if her husband monitors her accounts? He is somehow aware that I might try to contact her (or he might have forgotten I hope). And I don’t have her phone number. What if she gets so angry and upset that she goes directly to him to confront him without even getting back to me or asking for details/ or me having a chance to show her any proof? Should I just tell her EVERYTHING from the very beginning? What if I contact someone close to her – her sister?
My big dilemma is not IF to tell her, but HOW to tell her. What do you think?
If you can’t contact her directly (and I mean either face to face, or a phone call – other methods could be the fucktard impersonating her) – you contact one of her family members, again face to face.
Then arrange a meeting with her face to face and show her the proof and tell her NOT to confront. This is when you would direct her here.
Tell her something like ‘If you confront him now, he will just drive this underground. For you to end up with the best possible ending to this, you need to line up your ducks, and prevent it so he can’t control the narrative/destroy everything of yours – regardless of what you end up doing’
Maria: You may need to confront the wife with the evidence, but be aware that not all people will respond well to this information. If this is someone who has any power over you, you are risking some kind of reaction or retribution. I definitely would NOT go to the sister; friends & relatives often think they are protecting a chump by ignoring the information.
If you can print out the texts so that no personal information is shown, I still think anonymous is the way to go (and agree with Lania that it is not justifiable to do nothing. What’s the old adage–The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good (Wo)Men Do Nothing).
Hi, Tempest,
I do have solid proof, even if it’s not too much – it’s not quantity, but quality. However, what I have will prove only a little part of everything that I know. However, the BIG question is: what is the best way to tell her? Through her sister? (from what I know, they are very close) Directly to her? I can contact her on Facebook and by email only, I have no phone number. Also, the cheater is somehow aware that I might try to tell her something. What if he monitors her accounts? What is she gets so angry, that she runs directly to him to confront him, before me having any time to show her any proofs and give her any more details? If that happens, then he will manipulate her once again for sure and she won’t believe me at all – I am very sure of it. So, HOW?
Maria – I can’t locate your post that said you thought you’d meet face to face with this woman you don’t know, and give her this proof. Did I read that correctly? Perhaps that was Lania. I really see your point in this woman knowing but I still think this sounds like a very scary and perhaps dangerous position to put yourself in. Any face-to-faces. You cannot predict the reactions of anybody you present this info to. No matter how well you think you know them. Again, unless you are the other spouse being cheated on.
I realize you feel this is a ‘when’ not ‘if’ situation for you to reveal this information. Surely, if you are this far removed, are there others that know about it? Who can back you up, if need be?
I’m just saying that the woman who thought she was my friend, tried to tell my about a rumor going around town, and I pretty much had enough power to get her and her husband to move away. This is a small community. Of course, she was right, I had no idea at all, and she became the supreme enemy of the town – trying to take this Stable Couple of 35 Years Away. How dare she! pffft.
Can somebody else with this same proof you have, take the fall under the bus if it comes to that?
Hi again! Sorry I am getting back to you only now, like this, but given it was Christmas time, I didn’t feel it was right to keep discussing on the topic and bother anyone with it. I hope you enjoyed your holiday.
If possible, I would like to ask a few more questions, hoping that this is not bothering you – how did you finally get convinced that you were cheated on? What made you leave the denial state of mind and see the truth?
Having an idea about the guy and about his wife, she is very much under his control and she will most probably be in denial. So, in the end I realize it is not only a matter of how to tell her, through what channels of communication, but also a matter of how to prove the situation. What kind of proofs would be most convincing? I don’t have any pictures or so ….Just text messages, but pretty clear. Also it is pretty clear that they are about an affair that lasted about 1year 1/2, he mentions that.
Also, could I ask how your husband reacted and how he tried to convince you that he wasn’t cheating? Did he play the victim? Did he accuse you of not trusting him? Did he deny everything in the beginning? etc.
Thanks a lot!!
Maria – I should be called Denial Chump. I had so many red flags that kept mounting. All my friends told me they were sure he was cheating because of everything he was doing. Denial! Another g/f told me about a rumor going around town – I totally attacked her verbally and told her to get lost. Denial. I tracked him on the iPad GPS – found him at her house several times (didn’t ask him about it). Denial! (They must just be friends as she was a good friend of ours) Caught a note with his fancy hotel room he flew her across the country in (1st class) to Savannah (I had no proof she had gone-yet). Nice room! Denial. Oh, he must have deserved that romantic, expensive room with the canopy and fireplace with all that work he was doing. He was VERY good at keeping the A at work and I couldn’t access his work phone. He took her on trips in our motorhome – I was suspicious but found no evidence other than the bed was made in a way I didn’t make it and the shower was so clean you could have eaten off the floor. (he never cleans that well) Denial.
As it turns out, one night I’m feeling very confused and asked him a very short question, if something was going on. (couldn’t mention affair – no way!) And, the generous fellow came out and started rambling his confessions about everything. No stopping him. Oh – he felt SUCH relief getting it out after 2-1/2 yrs. Told me things I didn’t even want to hear – with a smirk on his ugly face! His black eyes hollow with nothing. Still Denial! Well, I think it was shock. It took awhile to set in and while I felt enormous relief that I wasn’t going crazy, I just couldn’t believe it still.
So, I don’t know what to tell you. I probably wouldn’t have believed an anonymous letter, unless it had proof like the emails you have. But, I don’t know. I might have made something up to excuse them. Maybe she has to discover this on her own. They finally get so sloppy with hiding it, it’s almost like they want you to find out. Sorry, I realize that’s not much help.
An anonymous letter perhaps?
I work in hospice too! You learn so much about living from the dying.
Thanks for sharing CL, she sounds like she was a one of a kind friend.
Dear Tracy,
Just read this post, haven’t been here in a while. After sending you that Dump Cake pic today, I couldn’t be happier to read what I think is your best post yet and there are so many good ones!!! Not happy about Yoma’s news regarding Warren. What a wonderful tribute to them and being a chump and the importance of leaving chumpiness behind and moving on with the knowledge to bigger and much better things. Love the pic of Yoma and Warren. She sounds amazing and my kind of woman. You are so lucky to have her in your life.
Sending love to you all and all my fellow and fella chumps.
Happy Holidays and New Year!
xoD
Thanks for this post. We get caught up in so much that sometimes we forget to look around and see the beautiful people in our lives. People like Yoma and Warren for you Tracy. God rest his soul. Prayers for you and for Yoma in this hard time.
Tracy–condolences to both you & Yoma. She sounds like a wonderful, inspirational woman.
While you mourn Warren’s passing – his and Yoma’s example, and your telling of their story, is a wondrous gift this holiday season. Thank you for sharing a bit of their wonderful time together with us.
I’m so glad Yoma had time with Warren. As you say, life’s too short. She lived a full life for herself and then, when she met Warren, she was ready to share it. How wonderful they had that time together.
I’m so sorry for her loss. I’m so glad they had each other even for that short time. I’m so glad you two still have each other.
Right now, nearly a year after d-day I have found someone who is amazing. I look at all the adversity and consider my age and, instead of lamenting the loss of that time, I’m now seeing that it all prepared me to be ready for this new person in my life who treats me so well.
Sometimes you need the lows to help you really appreciate the highs.
Thank you for sharing this. It really is eye opening and a terrific reminder.
So lovely! Thank you for posting We have all lost too much time
What a beautiful story of friendship and well-deserved love. I’m grateful Yoma has your friendship at this time, and you had hers back then…by helping you, Yoma helped me and so many of us here, and I hope she feels the warmth in our condolences.
I wondered about the symbolism of irises. The description I found feels so perfect to accompany what you write about Yoma and Warren: “the flower symbolism associated with the iris is faith, wisdom, cherished friendship, hope, valor, my compliments, promise in love. Irises were used in Mary Gardens. The blade-shaped foliage denotes the sorrows which ‘pierced her heart.'”
What a lovely love story! And you tell it beautifully!
Sorry for your loss CL.
Thank you so much for inspiring the romantic in all of us.
Typing through tears.
This brought tears to my eyes. Your absolutely right!!! Thanks for this.
Deepest condolences to Yuma and you, Tracy. Thank you for sharing your story at this very sad time.
Love
Jayne xx
Much Love to Yuma, and you CL. Your intertwined stories inspire me, and I am so glad you are there for each other. XO
my condolences for you and your friend. i hope she is doing ok during this time. my heart breaks for her.
This story drives home the idea of not wasting any more time on unworthy people (cheaters), self-deprecating thoughts, or rivers of regret in such an authentic way.
I love that their object of adoration/beauty/connection was flowers.
Just like people, flowers need sunlight, water, food, mild weather and usually someone looking out for them in the right doses for them to survive & thrive.
Cheaters are like a flood, a blazing sun and a truckload of manure to the flowers that are us.
It is no wonder that we shrivel & wilt under their lack of care, consideration and selfishness!
Thank you for sharing this thought provoking story. The only things of real value we have are love & time.
Well said Champ, Not Chump and Regina and a great way to remember that once the abuse of being cheated on is over, we can and should rise to do the things we deserve to do so we can be happy. Hugs…
Thanks Ro, & best to you on your journey!
I love that after her cheating husband left, Yoma began the journey of living her life and continues to explore and grow. Between she and Warren, I imagine they had many meaningful adventures. Life can get quite sad when we forget our desires do not age quite like our bodies, nor does our worth as humans diminish with age, therefore, we must go on meeting our needs and loving/sharing appropriately until the last day.
I am thirty and single and I often think I will stay that way. I have been cheated on; I have been a cheater. I never knew that being honest was an ideal and safe option. Given how I was treated as a child, honesty was scary. I have been single for three years and it has been grueling. And not in the least because I have been single. I finally enrolled in college as an art major. It’s been a complicated journey, but it’s finally the one I am supposed to have.
I’m not saying men don’t find themselves in the situations women do, but countless times I see women get scared of being “alone,” settle, marry, and have children with men who cannot appreciate them or meet their needs. It’s better to be alone.
I am thirty, single, childless, and have never been married. I couldn’t be prouder of my position in life.
Geez thats a wonderful story Chump Lady. Thank you….
Thanks for this one. Like so many others, I needed to hear it.
They steal your time. Oh yes those they do. And I’ve been letting him. Fool me once…..
I rarely post but always read and have gained so much strength from everything written here. Thank you Chump Nation. You have held my hand and showed me the way out. I post only to say thank you and in case my experience hits home with anyone who is currently stuck and needs a nudge I know I’ve taken many nudges from here that added up to enough courage to lawyer up and fight for what was mine. Don’t waste anymore time like CL says, please please please just do it. I wish I’d done it months ago.
7 years married and uncover an affair with the lady he sits next to at work. Miss Amazing Connection. True Love. Having been stuck in Hopedum I finally woke up and realized I have lost the last 8 months of my life to a cheater. Rounds and rounds, over months of false starts and ‘I want you back’ I love you’ ‘I miss you’ ‘I’ve ended it with her and am focused only on us’ ‘I will do whatever it takes’ (funnily enough cheaters never actually DO anything, but they can talk a good game every day of the week) Oh and my favorite, ‘I want to retake our vows’ (that was a real corker) all quickly followed by ‘I’m so confused’ ‘I’m such a mess right now’ ‘it’s so complicated”….and each time I’d discover a fresh round of lies.
One fun time was whilst we were making a fresh start in month 4, I was away for a pre-planned girls weekend and he was all text attentive and saying all the right things…..I found a Burke Williams bag at home on my return. He said he’d taken himself off as he was so stressed. Poor lamb. I called the spa and found they had been having a couples massage. He yelled and told me BW were lying. Yes, that was it. The SPA was lying.
I packed up and moved out (he aggressive too which made me feel super safe), about to file and wham, I got hit up again with suicide threats, 4am calls saying he was having a heart attack (another lie). I called an ambulance and he had to pay. A month of no contact and I was sucked back in again.
I also had the crazy mind fuck (on top of the lies) of him telling me it was all my fault. ‘You left, you moved out’ ‘You gave up on us’ ‘You told me it was over’ (yes and i wish I’d stuck to my guns in stead of believing his bullshit) ‘you were never around for me when I tried to end the affair’ (after 5 months he finally did make one feeble attempt and called me for support, desperate pleading calls to hold his hand as he had ‘ended it for me’, I was sick in bed with flu at my friends. He blamed me for not being available to him and THAT was why he ended up back with her again) Yes of course. It was my fault.
It took 4 D-days but I finally realized (finding gift receipts for over $1,000 at Christmas was a particular kick in the stomach – the affair was ‘over, I’ve told you it’s over so stop going on’). Something shifted, the clouds cleared and just as CL advised, I wrestled that mother-fucker of fear and hopedum to the ground. I accepted it was going to be really ugly and painful for the next few months, stopped trying to nice him out of an affair and began planning my way to a new life.
I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, just a bit now. I know this pain is finite and will end. With the continued support and love of three amazing friends (who do things like give up their spare rooms, time, energy, email encouragement, plan nice outings, remind me it’s not my fault, listen and know just when to firmly tell me I’m being fucking insane) and a fiercely protective mumma bear of a sister who wants his blood, there is a bright new future the other side. As Winston Churchill said ‘If you find yourself in hell, keep going’. I thought my husband of 7 years had my back, I much prefer Chump Nation 🙂 I’m looking forward to those banks of Irises and new adventures. Thank you.
Yeah, MsChump–we prefer to have you here than with your husband, too! Plug along. Each week you’ll notice fewer bad days, fewer bad hours. Getting off the hopium puts you at risk for pain, but the clouds start to part & you can feel the sunshine.
(What is it with cheaters and “renewing the vows” as they are boinking someone else? Several people have mentioned this.)
I love chump lady family for that….there was me thinking ‘renewing your vows’ was so special. Meh!