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Don’t Ask Amy

OWbrideAn alert chump sent me this advice column, “Ask Amy” inquiring “When the Affair Leads to Marriage, Is It Right to Celebrate?”

The writer didn’t want to attend the blessed schmoopie event — her relative was marrying a man she had a 30-year affair with — and was looking for some validation. Amy didn’t give it.

Let’s put Amy’s advice through the patented Universal Bullshit Translator today, shall we?

Here’s the letter and response.

Dear Amy: One of my female family members — unmarried and in her 50s — recently disclosed to our large family that she has been having an affair with a married man for 30-plus years. They met while she was in college (he worked at her university), and he has one adult daughter. He is in his 70s.

Her announcement was prompted by the recent death of his wife. Now they are public about their relationship, attending family weddings, sending gifts, etc., as a couple.

Shortly after their relationship became known openly, she announced that they were engaged. Their wedding and her bridal shower are both being planned. My family and I have already been asked to save the dates.

She is an adult and is free to make her own choices; it’s really none of my business. My dilemma is this: I do not want to be a part of the shower or the wedding. I feel that while the intent is for these events to be a celebration, they are a disrespectful spectacle; their infidelity is now public only because his wife has passed away.

I don’t want to take a dramatic stance in any of this. I just want to avoid it altogether. Any suggestions? — Disapproving

Dear Disapproving: If you want to avoid drama, then you should also avoid harsh judgment. If it is possible for you to forgive your relative for her decades-long involvement in an extramarital affair, you should do so. You presumably don’t know the circumstances behind this affair and — spun differently — your relative seems like someone who has been profoundly patient. Would you wish to deny her the fullness of happiness now?

It is quite easy to decline an invitation without making a statement designed to ramp up the drama. You simply respond politely that you will not be able to make it to the festivities. You do not need to supply a reason.

However, please realize that life is both short and complicated. People sometimes make baffling choices. But the legitimizing of a relationship between two consenting and legally available adults seems like a good thing, even if you don’t approve of how they got there.

If you want to avoid drama, then you should also avoid harsh judgment.

No actually Amy, it works the other way. Making a “harsh judgment” about toxic people generally leads to cutting them out of your life, which then results in less drama because you’ve gone no contact with their crazy.

Yeah, it’s so “harsh” to “judge” a man who betrayed his wife for three decades. God, who wouldn’t want their daughter marrying that guy? Mazel tov!

Hey, as long as we’re being harsh — what kind of woman tolerates being a side dish fuck for 30 years? Unmarried, giving up her entire youth and child-bearing years waiting for the hypotenuse in her love triangle to die? How freaking pathetic is THAT?

So what do you give couples for their 30-year infidelity anniversary anyway? Does Emily Post have some etiquette on this? Rotting meat? (Or is that 20 years?) Scratch off lottery tickets? (You could be a winner!) An adopted cockroach? (Yes, this is actually a gift possibility.)

Disappointed, I’d say if you want to avoid drama, don’t go to the wedding.

If it is possible for you to forgive your relative for her decades-long involvement in an extramarital affair, you should do so.

Yes, the problem isn’t the cheating. The problem is Disappointed’s inability to forgive. Where have we heard that before?

Is this woman asking for forgiveness? Is she sorry about her affair? Is she respectful of this dead woman’s memory? Her children? I don’t think she’s asking forgiveness so much as she’s asking people to buy shit off her wedding registry.

I’m sure Disappointed could suggest where OW can stick her matching silver candlesticks.

You presumably don’t know the circumstances behind this affair and — spun differently — your relative seems like someone who has been profoundly patient. 

Yeah, someone might have a really Good Reason for fucking around on his wife for 30 years! Who are we to judge? Maybe she knew about it! Maybe she was okay with it! Oops, we can’t ask her because she’s dead, but um… whatevers.

“Profoundly patient” is one way to put it. “Profoundly pathetic” would be another. Uh oh, my harsh judgment is showing.

Would you wish to deny her the fullness of happiness now?

Yes, why would you want to deny a cheater her happiness? Because her personal happiness is the Most Important Thing. Your values? Not so much. I’m sure she was really thinking of that dead woman’s happiness for the 30 years she was fucking her husband. But chumps are happy to share, right? The OW is more deserving of the fullness of happiness! Buy the goddamn candlesticks and bless this union!

It is quite easy to decline an invitation without making a statement designed to ramp up the drama. You simply respond politely that you will not be able to make it to the festivities. You do not need to supply a reason.

Oh why? Disappointed, Amy already has you pegged as being harshly judgmental so let’s go all the way with that.

Dear OW,

I would rather eat flaming dog shit before I attend your wedding. I can’t imagine what you creeps intend to accomplish with your public commitment ceremony of “monogamy” when you’ve been cheating for 30 years, but hey I’m sure you’re Special and he will be Very Different For You.

He’s in his 70s? I’m sure his daughter will be delighted to divert her inheritance to you. Imagine all the happy years you’ll have nursing him through his inevitable health crises! (Can’t imagine why the daughter wouldn’t want to help you with that?)

Here’s my wedding wish to you — May you have many limp-dicked years together. May he die slowly of a stroke. May his care be costly. May the disapproval of a thousand friends of his dead wife haunt you all your days. May he die. And may you find his entire 401K spent on Thai prostitutes.

Love Disappointed.

However, please realize that life is both short and complicated. People sometimes make baffling choices. 

We mustn’t ever judge things as “wrong.” Good people say “complicated” not “wrong.”

Embezzling public funds is “complicated.” Ask Sheldon Silver. How those millions of dollars got in his bank account? Hey! It was a series of “baffling choices.”

But the legitimizing of a relationship between two consenting and legally available adults seems like a good thing, even if you don’t approve of how they got there.

Oh well, now it’s legitimate because he’s put a ring on it. That’s like saying Sheldon Silver’s money is legitimate because gosh darn it, it’s in his bank account, with his name on it and EVERYTHING!

“How they got there” is exactly the point.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.

  • Exactly! I for one will not be attending any “celebrations” for lying, cheating, narcissists. The whole situation was so disgusting and pathetic that I didn’t really think it could get any worse…and then I read Amy’s reply!

    • I agree as well will not go to anything that celebrates cheating.

      Off topic wanted to update you all, I went to the custody enforcement hearing today that the wasband filed against me , can you believe that when the judge asked him if I was found guilty he wanted jail time for me as punishment !!!, none the less my laywer disproved his lies and he ended up looking the fool with his un prepared, unorganized lawyer, I was found NOT GUILTY!!!, and the judge ordered my court date for final on Feburary 23, I am beginning to see the light at the end of this long tunnel I filed on June 27…thank you chumplady you blog helped me lot in knowing what to do and expect …up coming is mediaton with the flaming turd on 2/2..let’s see how round two of this battle hashes out do far score is chump 1 , flaming turd 0…

  • Shame on that deceitful couple. Don’t go to the wedding, and God forbid, don’t buy them a wedding gift.

    How very dare they.

  • Amy, you are nuts. Hope you get out of Carebear world real soon. Down here some people suck.

  • Well summed up as always Tracy. Amy is obviously a dedicated RIC relationship therapist riding that wave of “false reconciliation” for all it’s worth. Sad to say, I’ve seen similar stories in my own life, where affair partners go on and marry. And surprise, surprise, the male in each case goes on to cheat. I’m sure as many females in these cases do the same.

    I’m usually controlled in my judgement of cheaters. The cheating husbands (in this story) level of craptacularness speaks for itself. 30 years cheating. But the OW???? What a pathetic individual. 30 years as a side dish? And now you think, even at 70, now this arsehole of a man will be dedicated to you? Seriously??

        • Roberta….that’s for sure about the Viagra but they don’t have to be old to abuse it either! My XPOS was using it when I met him when he was 43!! (he didn’t tell me, I happen to find it)!
          Also, I have spoken via FB to his now ex 25 y/o stripper that he was fucking for 2+ years while he was with me and she said that he told her he used it because, and I quote her, “it made things so much more intense for him”!!
          Well, isn’t that special?!!! Can hardly wait for his to rot!!

          • Well, IHaveHate,my STBXH’s Schmoopie actually got the Viagra for my cheater! He was having some issues before cheating due to his health problems and age. Before he and the HO actually slept together, she told him she “sucks on things till she gets sores in her mouth”! I believe he was hoping that she was going to “cure” his little problem! Well, I hope he realizes now that this is the least of his problems! I wonder how she’ll handle him being broke???

            • Ew. EW EW EW. Nice imagery. And he puts his dick in that? “Sore” and all, eh? Just ew.

            • Mmm, SUPER romantic and “special.” Good lord, Roberta, how can you bear to be without him???

          • Mine tried the herbal supplement Horny Goat Weed.

            That provided a great laugh when I found it.

            • My ex took that as well. Maybe it helped him screw more guys, but it didn’t seem to increase his interest in me.

        • I am all for ridiculing old fart cheaters. But, it seems to me that there is an undertone of ridicule/disapproval for just using Viagra in general. Did I miss something? Do we disapprove of insulin or anti-depressants? I mean , it is pretty clear that society still attaches a stigma to ED and there is some shaming over it.
          Look, just like women often need lubricants after a certain age, many normal , healthy, faithful,older men are in need of Viagra etc. I bet some of the older betrayed men feel the ridicule when they read this stuff.
          Do women cheaters abuse lube?
          Whenever I see the old guy young girl deal or the reverse, and the old person is a cheater, I too go right to the Viagra/Lube card to point out how foolish this is. I think it is exceedingly rare that a young, healthy woman really wants to get physical with an old guy for purely lust/attraction reasons.
          Same with the older woman young guy deal. It amazes me the levels of testosterone these young guys must have in order to get it up and overcome the visuals ( same with the young women. How can they get excited looking at someone who looks as I do at this age. One would have to be a fool to believe they think one is hot at this age.)
          Anyway, I am also amazed at how people like this Amy have advice columns. He lack of analytical ability and logic is appalling.
          I wonder if Amy or some of these other folks that CL dissects, ever get to read their vivisections and how they react. I mean the intellectual mismatch between CL and Amy , or Rebekah Gordon or Esther Perel or some of these other folks is astoundingly lopsided.
          I would love to see a public debate between CL and these folks.

          • Arnold
            I see nothing wrong with using ED drugs – no reason for shame to be attached. But when a tool is using it as a tool to enhance his cheat ability then I am all for shaming. My ex came home so excited the day he got his prescription! He had never talked about ED being an issue for him and I had not noticed any issue either. Things were working fine. He showed me the bottle of pills and gleefully exclaimed he was “to take one a day and masturbate every day” per the doctor. It is this kind of stupidity that is shameful. I was speechless.

            • Arnold….no problem with a man taking Viagra at all. Hey…more fun for all of us. However, I agree with Dot. My XH NEVER had a problem with me. We had a robust sex life…..then after Dday I discover a sample pack of Viagra in his bathroom with two missing. He said he used them with me. Bwhahahah. I mean Really? As in you never had ED in your life with wifey and all of a sudden you’re taking Viagra and not telling me? Yeah, makes perfect sense.

              A few months later I went to the drug store to pick up an Rx for me and they asked if I wanted to pick up my husbands Rx as well so I said ‘sure’ thinking it was a mouth rinse for his recent cancer. Nope. An $80 bottle of blue pills. I was too embarrassed to tell her to take them back. I made a call on the way home and told Fuck Face what he owed me and where he could find them. I couldn’t quite figure out why he needed them with OW but not me………

              • This! Never had truly profound problems with ED in our marriage bed. But once he was full on affair with the Facebook love of his life SHE decided he needed it! Good thing he never tried the damn pill she got him because with his health problems it could have caused his death!! She isn’t too smart and really neither is he when it comes to his health!

          • Arnold, nothing wrong with using Viagra for ED in a loving relationship. But when it’s used so a cheater can get it up with a side piece — which seems to be surprisingly common here — then it becomes the fodder for jokes.

            • Glad—that was an excellent response to Arnold’s comment re: ridicule of viagra use. I agree with you wholeheartedly. (Actually the viagra/lube analogy strikes me as apples and oranges but there’s no need to weigh in–Viagra is the topic) 😉

            • How so, Glad? What if the cheater required insulin in order to combat diabetes, and by using the insulin, he gained the ability to function, either sexually or just in general. Would we ridicule the use of insulin ? No, because the use of it has no stigma attached.
              But, there clearly is some feeling that there is something to be embarrassed about by having ED. Thus pointing out the use of it as something to be ridiculed is done.

              • Insulin is required daily to stay alive regardless of what else a cheater may be doing. Viagra taken specifically to get it up for an AP is no different, IMHO, than getting a hotel room for a night with AP or having a secret cell phone for texting AP. If used for cheating, Viagra becomes simply another tool in the cheater’s bag of nasty tricks. I don’t see the ED as having much to do with it — I understand medical issues. What bothers me is anything done specifically to fuck someone you shouldn’t be fucking, whether done by man or woman. Viagra used for sex with a wife/girlfriend/partner, no problem. Viagra used for cheating, big problem. But that’s just my opinion, YMMV.

              • Glad, it is my opinion, too. Thank you for your well measured remarks.

                Arnold, with all due respect, your being a man renders you incapable of understanding our desire to HARMLESSLY ridicule these Viagra enhanced dill weeds because you haven’t experienced what we have in this regard.

                This is how we blow of steam and soothe a bit of our pain. CL gives us this platform and we should feel no need to censor ourselves over something as inconsequential is this. We were also making comments regarding Depends but I didn’t see you take umbrage to that….. ‘-)

          • Arnold-Everyone here is a hater of cheaters; not men who use Viagra. It’s a legitimate drug used for a legitimate problem. Speaking for myself-my ex asshat had issues from 20 years old on. He didn’t have a problem getting it up but he could only last 30 seconds. Back in those days that wasn’t a problem because things got restarted quickly (or as I like to say-the boys would re-stock the shelves quickly) and it would take a while for it to happen a second time.

            I never brought it up with him because he was very sensitive about it but I knew it would be a problem once he hit his mid-late 30s and I was right. I would’ve loved if he used Viagra with me when it became available but in his head he “didn’t have a problem”. It was always my fault because “we didn’t have enough sex” We could’ve had sex morning, noon and night and if there was a few hours between times the same thing happened and of course as he got older, nothing was restarting quickly so 30 seconds was it unless I wanted to wait another hour. According to his mother and all her crass jokes his dad has the same issue so it’s either genetic or neither of them can delay gratification. Who knows and quite frankly who cares?

            Spoiler alert-If I ever did learn he was taking Viagra I would make fun of him. Not because he’s a man with ED but because he’s a slimy, cheating asshole. Just sayin’

            • Well, see , that is my point. If we accept that ED is a bonafide medical condition and that treating it with Viagra is legit, how could that possibly be used to ridicule even a cheater?
              It is like saying that I believe taking insulin is nothing to be ashamed of, but, if my cheater is diabetic, I would make fun of her for that.

              • I did not see the depends remark, but, again, I do not see incontinence as a shameful thing. It is part of life for a lot of people.
                So, why would I feel that pointing out a cheater’s incontinence in some way diminishes her/him?
                Perhaps I am not being clear on this. What I am trying to say is that I think we can all agree that things like incontinence or Ed or lack of lubrication etc are not shameful things one need be embarrassed about.
                So, if that is true, that these natural aging issues are normal and to be expected, why include the issue when we , quite rightly , ridicule a cheater?
                See, the very fact that people include it as a cut on the cheater implies that it is something that all of us should feel ashamed of. And , IMO, that can lead to a betrayed spouse who is experiencing this problem feeling shame about it.
                I often see the OW described as overweight or physically unattractive in an attempt to diminish her. Well, her actions and her lack of character are the things that diminish her, not her weight. I see cheating men described as bald or with pot bellies etc. when they are ridiculed. What is wrong with being bald or having a pot?
                And, if some poor betrayed woman or man with a weight issue or baldness or ED see folks agreeing that these are bad things in and of themselves, sommething to ridicule, the betrayed may feel worse about things.
                I don’t know. I may be guilty of this in the past , myself.

          • Arnold, I totally agree with your comments. Jokes about any physical condition are not nice. Period.

            • I agree. We have plenty of ammo to ridicule cheaters using their character and actions.
              I have pointed this out once beFore: when we ridicule a cheater or affair partner for a physical characters tic or health condition, we may be , unintentionally, hurting or damaging another betrayed spouse who has the same or similar characteristic/condition.
              These betrayed spouses may be already feeling from the cheating and questioning whether they were deficient already, having the condition or feature (s) being ridiculed.
              I am all in favor of lambasting cheaters. But I don’tknow feel we gratuitously throw in remarks about ED, as if that in and of itself is something shameful.
              If I was an overweight betrayed spouse and saw an affair partner being ridiculed for his or her weight,
              In my fragile conditiin, I think I would lose even more confidence.
              That is the point I tried to make.
              And, yes my age and the psychological trauma oof this betrayal has ( plus burgeoning “highly suspicious cells” in my prostate, has left me a veritable eunuch. Nothing I can do about it.

              • To all above with the Viagra comments…….it’s about the CHEATING & misuse of the drug, not the Viagra or ED, per se. Plain and simple!

  • Oh my gosh, this is the greatest letter of all time. I love it! Wow! I must say CL you sure know how to make me laugh. I swear if my xH marries his OW I will very tempted to send it….thank you

    • My gosh! I love CL’s letter too! Certainly has a way with words that all of us would love to be able to articulate!!

  • Reminds me of a very famous Prince Charles and Camilla, marrying after the death of Dianna. Made me sick!

    • I’d like to be able to give royals a little bit more latitude because they are far more restricted in their personal choices, and I question their true ability to marry for love. But on the other hand, they probably have a far bigger entitlement complex, too.

    • Also thought that was disgusting, still don’t like them both. She is hideous, Dianna was gorgeous.

    • Princes Charles and Camille still make me sick. I hope they are miserable!

  • “I’d rather eat flaming dog shit…” Ha ha ha! Thanks for the laugh. Sorely needed today.

  • Amy said ‘ spun differently’ … Its amazing when the truth of a situation gets spun differently how it all makes sense. Great advice. So here is my take on that logic. Someone gives you a pile of dig shit…. You say’ its a pile of dog shit’ they say ‘ No! Its a chocolate bunny!’ And they mold it and shape it into a bunny…. And say ‘ See! Its a chocolate bunny! ‘
    Now , I dont know about anyone else here…. But a pile of shit is a pile of shit. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.. Thank you Mr Shakespeare. Shit is shit. And spin it anyway you want… Dont bend my reality fucker.
    She should send her relative a sympathy card saying’ I am so sorry you lost 30 years of your life wiling to be second best. Sorry for your loss’
    Feign illness… Ingrown toenail….and bow out. They deserve eachother.

    • If you call a duck a dog, how many legs does it have? Answer – two.

      I repeat this small riddle to myself a lot. It doesn’t matter what the cheaters call themselves. They are still cheaters.

    • Aw, man don’t drag Billy Shakes into this! XD “A rose by any other name would smell as sweet” was Juliet talking about how Romeo would still be as lovely as he is even if he is a Montegue, a name that is a sworn enemy of her family.

      Doesn’t really mean that a shit is still shit no matter what shape.

      But you are correct though, a shit is shit even if it’s in the shape of a bunny.

      • Kara, maybe I am wrong in my intepretation…. But I think its the same…. Call Romeo whatever you like… Montegue… Capulet… Frank… He is still Romeo….same idea no? Thats where i was going…

  • I once worked for a small mom & pop company. One of the owners was having an affair with a much younger woman, while his wife was battling ovarian cancer. Sadly, his wife lost her battle and this shit for brains invited his mistress to attend the first day of Shiva. His kids were incredulous. As would I be. The piece of shit had the audacity to bring his MISTRESS to sit Shiva!! They sat together holding hands. I mean, can you even imagine?!

    His wife’s body wasn’t even cold when he “put a ring on it”. Now they are married. A long time friend of the mistress was so disgusted with everything: the affair, the fact that she attended a private sacred event and marriage that he cut ties with her.

    • That example is why I don’t believe that bullshit about “good people can have affairs”. Because if you are basically at your core a good person you do have self made boundaries.

      No way a basically good person would sneak around with a dying woman’s husband and then go to her services with the husband. She could have said “sorry, schmoopie but I won’t do that, I’ll see you after the services”. Or better yet realized how sick that was and dumped him for it. But no. She went and held hands. She’s a damn sociopathic vulture.

      • Totally agree! When I was diagnosed with cancer, my STBXH’s Schmoopie sent him articles downplaying the seriousness of my cancer! Lovely!!

        • Roberta,

          That is just reprehensible. I’m sorry you had to encounter these reptilian cheaters, and hope you’re on the mend.
          -LilyBart

          • LilyBart & IHaveHate, yes I am on the mend (much to the chagrin of cheater and Schmoopie). What blows me away is my STBXH believes that schmoops is just the smartest, sweetest little angel ever and she really wasn’t trying to dismiss my cancer, but trying to educate him! I told him if he needs information on MY condition and cancer then I would suggest he ask me! Just a thought! But then again, I suppose I’m not nearly as smart and sweet as Schmoopie so what do I know?

            • Roberta, I’m glad you’re on the mend. I wonder what Schmoopie will say to your STBXH if he’s diagnosed with cancer? Will she even stick around?

              • I doubt she will quite honestly. We may find out soon as his health is a apparently rolling down hill pretty quickly. Seems he is constantly sick. Recently missed an entire month of work to fight a serious infection. Seems Mr. sparkles is getting to be less fun! I know she doesn’t run up to our part of the state much anymore!

            • Until she has a medical doctor certification in oncology she can fuck the hell off from diagnosing others. What a skank.

  • This fuckwit is into triangles. He is marrying her because he already has his other honey lined up. In fact, she is probably attending the wedding (nothing new here, schmoopie).

    So here is my toast:

    “To the chump. Free at last, free at last, thank God almighty, you are free at last.”

      • Calamity…..AGREED! That’s what I thought the minute I read that she passed! Not sure if its too much watching the Discovery ID channel or what!

        • I agree on the autopsy as well! Before Dday I would have thought it was too much Discovery ID, but not since. Now I know strange, crazy, shit happens all the time; we naive chumps of the world, dismiss the clues because we can’t wrap our heads around it.

  • Amy must really hate this relative. Anyone with half a brain can see marrying an affair partner who could keep a double life going for 30 YEARS!!!! is a red flaming flag. This is not a recipe for “happily ever after” besides the incredible disrespect being done to the faithful (now deceased) spouse and mother. That’s grounds alone not to encourage and support this choice. It’s foolish on multiple levels. And CL is right…it doesn’t sound like she is asking for forgiveness. If it is “harsh judgment” to say adultery is wrong and needs to be repented of, then Jesus is an EXTREMELY harsh and judgmental person. Think about it.

    • Thank you! I was thinking the same thing. Take out the loaded affair stuff, and anyone willing to keep someone on a hook but not commit to them for 30 YEARS is not someone that I would want a loved one to marry!

      “If it is “harsh judgment” to say adultery is wrong and needs to be repented of, then Jesus is an EXTREMELY harsh and judgmental person. Think about it.”

      Why is it, do you think DM, that so many churches/religious leaders are so “meh, it happens,” about adultery? I’ve had Chump friends be told it is their sin and they are possibly going to hell for being divorced (after their ex cheated) and one straight up told they are going to hell if they date or remarry after the divorce (after their ex cheated.) The Cheater seems to be completely absolved! Seeing that it has honestly hurt my own faith.

      • Kira,

        It is always easier to live by rules than by relationship. That is my take on why churches/religious leaders don’t take adultery as seriously as they take divorce. They have the rule–DON’T DIVORCE! And they have missed God’s heart on these matters.

        This is nothing new–i.e. for God to be represented by ungodly people speaking in His name. And it IS very off-putting. But it is important to recognize these individuals who condemn Chumps for divorcing and remarrying are only truly representing their own bigoted, fleshly mindset. God takes adultery seriously and allows for divorce when it has taken place (e.g.Jer. 3:8, Mt 5:32, and Mt 19:9).

        I know I am fighting an uphill battle sharing this truth with the Church and other pastors on my blog. Every once and a while I get push back from well-meaning pastors who seem more concerned about a divorce not taking place than adultery being addressed Biblically (http://www.divorceminister.com/pastor-exchange-on-divorce-is-not-sin/). It is my hope that some day we will have more churches and pastors addressing these issues Biblially and less that treated your friends in such an ungodly and hurtful way. At this point, I am pleasantly surprised when I DO encounter a pastor or church that handled it well. Unfortunately, they seem the exception to the rule at this time. BUT they DO exist!

        Please don’t let cruel and ungodly people turn you off from God. God cares about faithful spouses as God has always been on the side of the vulnerable and victim of injustice!

        Blessings!
        DM

  • It took me about 2 seconds to crap all over Amy in an email I sent directly to her at the Tribune.

    Amy has been seriously off the mark in much of the advice she gives – not the first time I have addressed her shitty column. I’ll bet her inbox was full of chumps writing to tell her where to stuff her stupid opinions.

    My feeling – old Amy is presently, or has been an affair partner herself, to write such patent drivel.

  • What is just as disgusting is the number of commentors slamming the LW! This couple deprived an innocent woman of an honest relationship for 30 years! And these two pieces of human garbage want wedding presents? Incredible. Oh well, so long as the OW remembers she has now left a vacancy; there are plenty of people like her out there who will be more than willing to fill her mistress role, especially if the turd she is marrying has money. Hope he develops some horrendous ailment and she ends up changing his diapers.

    • As the *proverbial* saying goes: He who marries his mistress creates a job opening.”

      • Hah! I was going to post this, but you are so right, Vegan Chump!

        Cheaters love kibble and cake, and this cheater had kibble and cake for 30 years. He lost his kibble supply so he needs a new one. Age is no barrier to cheaters!

    • I hope he has MASSIVE amounts of debt that he is hiding and she inherits them. She’s still very young at 50 something, so she will certainly outlive him.

      • I am not sure one acquires another’s debts by marrying. I cannot see how that would happen.

        • Well if nothing else any debt he does have would come out of his estate which might stuf her around a little?

  • The whole idea of an affair partner “hanging in there” for 30 years is just so pathetic and sickening. This OW was so ridiculously hard up that she could not find anyone who was single???? It just defies logic! And this old bastard she is marrying is a real prize! NOT! I say let them marry! Hopefully that way the rest of society will be spared having to put up with these fuckwits! Let them totally destroy each other!

    • My XH has gone back to the woman he had an affair with nearly 30 years ago. She never married. She never got a degree. He has a PhD. She bought her own house and is ridiculously devoted to two little rat dogs (to use his term for tiny fluffy dogs) to the point she dresses them up in elf costumes and has their picture taken with Santa. Gag me!

      At one point, years later, when XH was feeling guilty that her life amounted to nada, I told him, that is her doing. You work hard to make a life as we all know… every last one of us gets up daily, puts on our big girl panties and goes out to raises kids, money, pay off debts, makes friends and all of the things we talked about yesterday. So if she wasted 30 years of her life waiting for my abusive, cheating, raging XH, more fool be she. Or maybe they had this thing going on for 30 years under my nose and I didn’t know… and I didn’t politely die off but kicked his miserable ass out. Either way she wins…HIM! and I get a life.

      But now he is back with her and they are probably doing the long lost love, finally after all these years making a life together. Gag! Oh and I do intend to sabotage this little romance with the kids. Just bidding my time…

      • ROMOB, Your XH’s affair partner sounds kind of mentally stunted to me and I agree with you! She chose to be alone and share a life with just two dogs! In 30 years if this woman couldn’t attract a fly then there has to be something else going on with her! Your Ex may want to rethink his choice in women! I’m afraid he’s in bed with a defective model! She doesn’t sound to tightly wrapped! But then again, I believe any person who sleeps with married people are defective somehow!

  • Oh this one is great and bells go off about a personal experience.
    First I want to say I love CL’s analogy about Sheldon Silver-gosh, I hate it when that happens… when money just finds it’s way into your account, or you “come to” and find your privates being indulged in by someone who is not your spouse. How does this happen? It is such a mystery and no one is really guilty, right? We all have needs! It is a crock of garbage.
    I would be shattered if I were his child and never had an inkling of what was going on.

    It reminds me a little of the current story of the professional ball team owner Tom Benson, a billionaire from Louisiana that is allowing his wife to write off his entire family who has been working for him for years to appoint his wife to be in charge of everything. (at least they are married for 10 years) I am sure there is more too the story, I guess the daughter was difficult, but what decent wife would want this for his kids? There isn’t enough to go around here? Criminy.

    Chump Lady has a no nonsense way of waking people to the reality of not having to accept the crap people shove at us, even our own families. She has a way of sawing off the unicorn horn of this Chump.

  • Thank you Chumplady for putting this through the Universal Bullshit Translator. I was nauseated by Amy Dickinson’s calling the OW “patient.” Amy is laboring under the delusion that the OW was “patient” while fucking the Chump’s husband for THIRTY FUCKING YEARS??? And now it’s just awesome that the chump is dead so they can be out in the open. Amy had a highly viral column a few months ago where she called out a homophobe, rightly so, but calling out a chump is sickening and spineless.

  • Wow, I didn’t know Ask Amy was written by my ex-wife.

    “If it is possible for you to forgive your relative for her decades-long involvement in an extramarital affair, you should do so.”

    No. As much as I consider forgiveness to be freeing, graceful and something we should all strive for, it is impossible if the offender offers no apology or recognition of the damage they caused. Period. You can accept, disconnect and move on. In this case it means not going to that wedding.

    • Chumpion……AMEN TO THIS!!! On forgiveness….”it is impossible if the offender offers no apology or recognition of the damage they caused”.

  • Amy’s response reminds me of Nigel Powers from the Austin Powers movies…If Nigel was reading this article he might say…”There are two things in this world I can’t stand…People who judge other people and Cheaters!” … See Amy is so hypocritical as she is judging Disapproving for not accepting this new arrangement.

  • My objection is to the presumed legitimization of a marriage between affair partners. Or sans marriage, publicly staying together amidst the burning rubble from the destruction of all their red. hot. twu wuv.

    Plus, what they did is not only wrong, any public proclamation of togetherness does not neutralize all the stinky EWWWW the relationship is built on.

    A “legitimate” relationship that started as an affair will always profoundly stink. Now it is just a public…landfill.

    Cannot hide that EWWWW.

  • There should be a NewAge Fairy tale for the nouveau cheater intellectuals

    Here’s my

    Once upon a time there was a Prince Charming, who when 70 years of age, and upon the death of his wife, whom he has been cheating on throughout their marriage, finally marries his OW who “patiently” waited for him. Their wedding, their vows, was a beautiful thing to behold. The guest were served lovely petite,crustless, Hor d’oeuvres of excrement, accompanied by Asti Spumante and fireworks.

    The 70 year old Prince Charming, despite his gout, hemorrhoids, and dementia…along with the blush of menopause of his 50 something OW bride were exuberant in their joy.

    The gifts that were bestowed upon this enchanting couple ,who honeymooned at a geriatric spa, wheel chair accessible, all you can eat buffet and 24 ambulance service, were gifted with walkers, clap on, clap off, light fixtures and personalized stainless steel allergy bracelets.

    The moral of the lovely fairy tale, is that your children can hope and aspire to finding their true love in their senior years. Remember, that happily ever after and depends diapers are the stuff of true love.

    • Ha!Ha!Ha! Sounds like the announcement my STBXH and his menopausal cheating housewife Schmoopie should be sending out! I’d laugh harder, but I keep tasting throw up in my mouth! Maybe that is from the lung cancer I had to battle alone since my STBX of almost 41 years found Twu wuv on Facebook! Oh well, let her wipe Mr. sparkles ass in his old age! I feel it’s what all these lil Schmoopies deserve!

    • PF I spewed my coffee reading rhus one!! Thank you for your insanely sharp sense of humor

  • From where I’m reading this, Mr. Cheaterpants used his lawfully wedded wife for 30 years as an excuse not to be marriage material and finally ran out of excuses when she died. I don’t see much future here. No need to attend the festivities or send a gift.

    • Survivor, he actually used both of them! He’s a selfish piece of work and now stupid Schmoopie who basically gave up her life to sit as a”sloppy second” still loses out as she will now be used by him because he needs someone to change his depends and feed him his puréed food! Ha! Ha! Ha! What a catch! Lucky Girl! What a waste! She and he are pitiful losers! Let them serve Metamucil shooters at the wedding reception! Ha! Ha! Ha!

      • Roberta, you are absolutely right, but I think it’s entirely possible he’ll never make it down the aisle. Schmoopie called his bluff on 30 years of empty promises. He’ll be looking for another way out now because he never intended to marry her. That’s the best case scenario for her. Otherwise, she’ll be wiping his sorry butt while he looks around the Senior Center for a new side dish.

        • Yep Survivor! These old cheaters never change! No matter how broken down they are , they are still out there groping! Mine resembles Popeye, but whatever mirror he is using is fooling him! And his Schmoopie, EWWWW! But she thinks she is “hot” judging from the pictures she put on Facebook and the pictures she sent the old fart!! Hope she likes cleaning the wax off his hearing aid and cleaning his gross denture bath he leaves on the side of the sink!!

          • My cheater wasn’t so old when I got the news that I was too old for his cheating self. I was younger than him, but he really needed someone 15 years younger. [Translation: more naive than you are anymore.] In his early forties at the time, and chasing his students. Not particularly attractive, but thought he was. So there was no denture bath or hearing aid. I do remember thinking what a hoot it would be to see her expression when she realized that yes, he did get up every morning and work out IN A LEOTARD! AND TIGHTS!

            • Good Lord! Thought it was bad enough that mine stood in front of a full length mirror “dancing” and swinging his junk around! Even called his penis Mr. Chilly! But his Schmoopie and he have renamed his penis Jasper! These assholes crack me up! Thank God for Tracy and all the chumps here at chump nation! I have REAL hope thanks to this! Thank you all!

              • Mr. Chilly? That is hilarious! My ex did plenty of dancing, prancing and swinging his penis around, but did not have a funny name for his dick, or at least, never told me if he did.

              • Roberta—please inform us how you know his wiener has been re-christened—I’m dying to know!

                My X freakass used to dance, prance and swing his junk around too. I once walked in on him wearing a fedora at a jaunty slant dancing naked to some Brazilian music. It was so bizarre. I am shaking my head in bewilderment right now. Wow, just thinking of that and getting yet another laugh at his expense has brightened my day 😉

        • Except that these cheaters can’t be without kibbles, and the best way to get kibbles consistently is marriage. That’s why so many of these cheating men/women claim, “I was unhappy for years!! (sad face)” but don’t leave until they have a replacement.

  • I think the most stunningly stupid thing Amy said is “your relative seems like someone who has been profoundly patient.” Amy, that would be true if OW did NOT have the affair with the old geezer and did actually WAIT to be involved with him till after his wife was dead. In reality, she was NOT patient a bit because she and Grandpa went ahead and had their affair. Fucking him for 30 years behind his wife’s back is NOT being patient. Being patient for 30 years would be saying sorry gramps, I can’t do this because you are married to someone else. Get divorced then look me up and if I’m available, yeah let’s do it.

    They DEPRIVED Geezer’s legitimate wife of the opportunity to live a cheater-free single life and to have the opportunity for her to meet someone else instead of the cheating fuckwad she had for a husband. “How dare you deprive them of their NOW happiness???” They thought nothing of his wife’s happiness, and now are practically dancing on her grave. I guess every wrong is okay if the victim dies.

    • “In reality, she was NOT patient a bit because she and Grandpa went ahead and had their affair. Fucking him for 30 years behind his wife’s back is NOT being patient.”

      Geeez. One of us chumps needs to send Dear Amy a link to CL today.

      I volunteer.

    • What spin could one possibly put on this one? Maybe I could give it a try! The other woman wasn’t just an affair partner, she was a serious long term fuck. She had no problem going on vacations, going out to dinner, and getting gifts while his wife went without for 30 years. She has such amazing qualities including her profound patience! She waited to legitimize her fuck worthiness until his wife died. Let’s all celebrate the festivities based on this disrespectful whore of a narcissistic woman. Instead of sending flowers to the deceased please forward shit sandwiches, humility, and humble pie to his serious fuck.

    • Seriously. What Muse said. Where’s the Bridal venue, the still-warm grave of wife #1? (saves on limo costs, that way.) Ugh.

      But the person to write to, btw, is Amy’s editor….along with Amy. Let management get the message.

    • I agree. I balked at the mention of her virtuous “patience”. It’s like praising a vulture for not attacking its prey when it could still fight back.

      • Ashemare, great analogy! And a reply to Hesatthecurb. I had the total misfortune to read the sexting they engaged in day after day, all day long! You know, while my Mr. Professor was supposed to be teaching and working for his college employer! It was VERY confusing actually because I thought after reading that crap that I had just read texting from a couple of 13 year olds, but NOPE! These were actually just two mentally stunted over the hill adults talking sexual fantasy all day long! Still can’t decide whether to puke or laugh!

    • Thank you Muse! That bit about OW being patient made me angry and sick! As if OW is some kind of saint because she waited.

      Also, love how Amy says ‘you don’t know the circumstances behind this affair’ to someone that knows the situation much more intimately than she does, which comes off as passing judgment on Disapproving, while telling her/him not to judge.

      Dear Disapproving,
      Why did you even ask Amy??? You know the answer to your question already, without her nonsense.

  • OOOOooohh sooo happy CL! I saw this crap yesterday and was hoping you’d write about it. So messed up! I hate the word salad, baffling choices, complicated, just call a spade a spade people(cheaters). Oh that’s right, cheaters can’t. It’s all word salad and gas lighting. Don’t look at that man behind the curtain! You just might see the truth.

    • I saw it yesterday too and almost crawled through my computer screen to blast Amy between the eyes with her incredibly stupid dribble shit.

  • Apparently. When my STBXH and his idiot Schmoopie found out I had lung cancer I wish you could have read not only the emails between them, but also the emails between my cheater and his lawyer! All my hubs was worried about was if I died and he took up residence between the skanks legs, just how would that “look”
    To his kids and his “fan club”? He certainly was looking forward to possibly not having to pay spousal support also! Surprise! Looks like I’m going to be around for awhile! I just ruined all their plans!

    • Roberta, I am so sorry you had to go through treatment with those buzzards circling. So glad you spoiled their plans. Maybe your lawyer can negotiate for him to pay for your health insurance as well as some nice spousal support. Sounds fair to me. And to answer your STBX’s question, he’d look like John Edwards.

      • Thank you Survivor, he is retired military so I will have health insurance paid by him for life. He is Sooo anxious to marry his side dish f**k that he cannot even wait for me to get through chemo! So I am going in late February to a mediation. I have a very good lawyer and I feel pretty good about it. I just can’t wait to turn Mr. Sparkles over to this idiot woman who once told her other Facebook friends that “she wins, she always wins”! But what did she really win??? I ain’t seeing it! Actually, I believe I’m the REAL winner here!

        • God Bless, you Roberta – I am so deeply happy for you that she “stole” that POS from you.

        • You, Roberta, are the winner. I survived cancer after I survived the Cheater. At the time, I was so grateful that I could make myself a priority, as that never happened in my marriage to that entitled crapweasel. So stay strong, take care of you first, and let your lawyer do his or her job. Chemo is a challenge.

          • Thank you Muse and Survivor for the words of encouragement! I also was diagnosed after he left. I fell to pieces because I NEVER saw it coming! Thought we had a beautiful marriage and life right up to DDay! I actually am grateful because I never would have known I had lung cancer had he not done this! My mother died of lung cancer, but it looks as if I will be a survivor story and I am Sooo happy about that. He, however, is in bad shape and his health problems are causing him to have to depend on the new Schmoopie. Makes me wonder how long it will be before she is tired of that! The way I figure it he gets whatever he deserves! And I sooooo want him and her to get EVERYTHING they deserve!!!

            • Roberta,
              Just focus on the survival story. Take care of yourself like you never have before. Forget about the loser who would prefer you dead. I too made a beautiful life for a jerk who did not appreciate that. I now have a beautiful life again, but it is real. Let that be your goal. I know it’s against a chump’s nature, but ask for help when you need it.

              • I am looking forward to a new, authentic life! Thank you for your words! I told my STBXH when I kicked him out, that I could swing a dead cat and more than likely find somebody who cared more for me than he did! Looks like I was right! Chump Nation!

            • At first, reading “Schmoopie” and “Depends” in the same sentence, I had this image of cheater in adult diapers that schmoopie has to change… may that be the case.

              And how awful for you Roberta to have two horrible things in a row hit you. (I’m another faculty chump–let me guess, he’s involved with a student? Pathetic egotists, these Ph.D. cheaters). You are mighty, and will outlive him by decades (and you’ll never need Depends!).

              • Actually not a student! A bored housewife on Facebook who had a husband who traveled often. She spun some tail about domestic abuse, but it doesn’t ring true. Her ex divorced her when he found out and threw her just a bit of his “big bucks” to rid himself of her! He earns serious bucks. My Ahole is a broke ass! But her ex gave her some serious cash and it makes my STBXH’s eyes spin in his head! I think she did this with lots often as a “hobby” till she got caught!y STBXH tells me she REALLY loves him! Yeah, right!My STBXH teaches what her ex does for a living. Apparently she believes my STBXH will be able to turn lots of cash like the Ex!

    • Dearest Roberta, I’m truly sorry for what I know has truly been an agonizing ordeal, going through cancer alone AND having to read emails filled with glee at your impending passing, as well as hope that your death will benefit the cheaters in any way. I know how this feels. My cheater ex came back for false reconciliation while after I was dx’ed with colon cancer. Silly me…I thought it was him being supportive. Turns out, it was him wanting to be there to haul away my belongings, especially my jewelry, if I expired. I had 2 feet of my colon removed successfully but, unfortunately, developed an infection afterwards and had to have an emergency colostomy. Besides texts expressing disappointment that I made it, he also found it necessary to send his gf a pic of my stoma, taken while I was sleeping. The cruelty of some of these people is astounding. I just cannot fathom how anyone who could do something like that could be found appealing or capable of loving another human being, no matter how special you have deluded yourself into thinking you are. Nor can I understand how any woman could want a man who could do what was done to you, I or any of the wonderful people here who have endured such indignities. I am now stoma-free, (they were able to successfully take down the colostomy 3 months later) cheater-free, cancer-free and have my belongings, including my jewelry. More than that, I’m grateful for all that I have, even the scars…bc they are a reminder of how strong I can be when I need to be. I know you are too and I wish you continued good health and happiness. ps. had I been thinking more clearly at the time, I would have offered that 2 feet of colon as a parting gift…greedy bastard might have taken it…hmmmm…nah,he wouldn’t have deserved it

      • Beendonengone, yes, yes, yes! Mine also came back while I was recovering, but I still had a Heimlich drain tube sticking out of me! I also thought he was finally coming to his senses until he started dragging me all over town to find a tax office open that would amend our taxes to filing jointly because I had filed separately and he could not afford the tax bill he owed! I had been doing fairly well but I started feeling worse. I finally kicked his ass out because he was of no assistance at all. Turns out I had unfortunately contracted MRSA inside my body and my left lung was necrotic. So after a second surgery less than four weeks after the first surgery my doctor saved me from dying but I had to be totally opened up! I’m missing ribs now and have some very ugly scars, but I am alive thank God!!! His cheating pisses me off, but pales in comparison to surviving lung cancer! See how that works? We can recover and have a great life, but our cheaters will always be the sub humans they are!!! They can never aspire to anything higher! How sad! And PS: I refused to amend the taxes and told him that if Schmoopie loves him soooo much and she is so “loaded” like he says then she won’t mind paying them for his broke ass!!! Needless to say he was pissed!

        • Beendonengone, I truly hope you are doing well and have recovered. Cancer is bad enough, but we got a double whammy! I certainly hope you are kicking some cancer butt and have kicked the cheaters butt!

  • Many of the stories here make me very sad. But this one seems particularly poignant. I hope that prior to all this celebration of a new beginning for this charming couple, somone showed up at the deceased wife’s funeral and said a few kind words about her.

    • Chumpguy, I also wondered if the deceased wife knew? I bet she did. I can’t imagine an affair going on for 30 years and the wife not knowing. My heart goes out to her.

      • You would be very suprised how devious people can be. Certain professions are very conducive to long term secret liasons. I once met a man who had 2 families living in very close proximity to one another. First wife and grown kids never learned of second family until cheater had a heart attack at AP’s house. It happens, for sure.

  • “We’re getting married after waiting 30 long years! His wife died, Yay! Twu love at last!” I’m trying to put myself into this woman’s shoes and just can’t. Wonder if the “bride” is planning on wearing white?. OMG, tacky, tacky, tacky!!!

  • Thanks CL. You really should patent your universal bullshit translator because it is worth it’s weight in gold!! What a couple of turds and I did have to laugh at the OW getting her 70 year old schmoopie. Let them both rot in the exact manner that CL described.

    Who is Amy and why does she give anyone advice? From what I’ve read, she really sucks at it!!

  • Indeed Chumpguy. Poor soul – if she knew or didn’t know — she was denied an honest marriage. Rest in peace now, dear lady.

  • I used to chat with a lady in Chicago whom I lost all respect for her when she told me that her boyfriend of 25 years is married. and goes back and forth between the two. That was before I knew I was going to be a chump myself. Back then I couldn’t understand what is wrong with these people. why would anyone also such stupid circumstances to continue for a quarter of a century. Then when my own exwife admits that she had been having any affair with a married man for 2.5 years. She said everyone other weekend he spent the night with her. I immediately thought back to the lady in Chicago who was obviously disordered and thought that is who my exwife is going to end up being. Just some married assholes mistress. She must be one screwed up person to desire something like that.

  • It has always amazed me that the OW who marries the cheater after he divorces his wife EXPECTS her marriage to work with no problems. They always seem so amazed that the cheater will cheat on them. How can this be a surprise? How can any woman believe the drivel that married men spew “My wife doesn’t understand me, love me, have sex with me, is crazy . . . “” Then get divorced, idiot.

    Why do you continue to see a man you know is married, and act as if the drivel he tells you is true? If he tells you he is divorced, but you find out he is not — it is not an accident. He is a liar, and/or the most stupid man in the universe, or both. RUN!

    What I wonder about with this incredible story is WHY did those two feel the need to share WITH EVERYONE their terrible story? Couldn’t she have said “I met him 30 years ago in college, but he married someone else, and he has recently become a widower. I enjoyed dating him back then, and am happy to date him now.” Why drag their own garbage out in front of the family and friends? I am not saying I approve, but really, do they expect everyone to approve because NOW it can be a legitimate relationship? Seriously!

    I am absolutely certain there are MANY things about most of the people I know (through work and socially) that I do not want to know. Please keep all details about your personal life and problems to yourself. Speak only with your therapist, or in your support group. Friends and family do NOT want to know. There is a time and a place for personal sharing, and usually, you are not in that time and place.

    • I agree with you. Why would anyone share that information and expect decent people to be happy about it.

    • Okay–major trigger for me in your response. My a-hole used the “wife and I are no longer close, she’s too busy for me, marriage isn’t working BS” on the two APs (that I know of) who were 30+ years his junior.

      • I can understand that in days gone by, when there was poor communication, and little education, that a woman might be fooled by that kind of balderdash — but these lines are even in the tabloids and soap opera’s. They are so old and tired, these lines need to have a funeral and be buried!!!

        If your EXH had AP’s that were 30+ years his junior — they knew he was full of it, and were interested in his money or using his influence or living the girlfriend lifestyle. Something besides him. Men are also imbeciles if they can convince themselves these sweet young things don’t notice they are 30 years older. Not to mention the health problems and sex issues.

        Just think — the AP’s probably had to wake the old coot up to tell him how great the sex was, and he probably believed it. Talk about living in Fantasy Land.

        Just think about how real life will suck when the “honeymoon” phase is over, and the thrill is gone. I think all parties involved will get what they deserve, instead of what they think they want.

        • Portia, I agree and I can’t wait till the honeymoon phase is over for my STBXH and Schmoopie. I can only imagine the regret and blame game they will lay on each other! Me? I’ll be somewhere warm and exotic on his dime! It’s gonna be great! Comes under the heading of: be careful what you think you want, you might just get it

        • I have a theory about the sweet-young-thing situation. I think they need a father figure in their lives, someone to look after them, offer them advice, buy them gifts, model maturity for them, etc, that they didn’t get from their own father, or don’t want to now because they want to be ‘independent’ but they can convince themselves that’s not it when they date older men because if there’s sex involved, it can’t possibly be a father figure.

          I just hope my ex’s SYT had her eyes opened when he came to her, broke, because all the money he showered on her was earned by me.

          • Hopeful Cynic. It would have been a treat to see her reaction! I’ll bet he was history shortly there after!

  • Um…he’s in his 70s? Why the f*** get married when you’re in your 70s? Why not just date / be partners / whatever? This is clearly an attempt to legitimize what is otherwise a wasted life–life lived to the most deceptive.

    30 years of cheating! My god! I lasted 6 months and called it quits on my cheater. 30 years! What sort of brain damage did this man and his AP do to his wife over the course of 30 years of lying and cheating? Let’s start there. That poor woman!

    After that, let’s discuss what 30 years of lying and cheating did to the minds of the liars and cheaters. At this point, this woman and her STBHusband must clearly be addicts, with no way of functioning in normal society because they’ve so thoroughly re-wired their brains for affair thrills.

    I’m reminded of the character Gollum in the Lord of the Rings movies, all twitchy and whiny, emaciated and feverish. That’s what decades of obsession, deception, and paranoia will do to a person, fiction or not.

    This is pathetic. I’d pity them, if they were worth such consideration.

    But they’re not.

    • Gollum, ha ha – I picture OW saying “my preciousss” – yeah her precious flaming turd.

    • Cannot unsee that now! LOL. That is what I’m going to picture for Cheaters and their APs, Gollum!

  • What I don’t understand is why tell that there was an affair? It seems so disrespectful to the dead wife. It just shows the shitty characters of these two longevity cheaters

  • What a disgusting story–it’s nice to know there was a predator at the OW’ s college oh so many years ago, isn’t it? My take on it is perhaps SHE is demanding marriage (“I waited all this time for you! I never got to have a ceremony and all the presents and fawning admiration; now it’s finally my chance! Of course I am wearing white! It’s my first time!”) and she has set her sights on getting any possible inheritance when he falls into his well deserved grave–after all, she earned it, she waited 30 years, didn’t she?

    Can you imagine the self serving wording of the wedding vows? “A patient love that was meant to be” PUKE!

    • “My take on it is perhaps SHE is demanding marriage (“I waited all this time for you! I never got to have a ceremony and all the presents and fawning admiration; now it’s finally my chance! Of course I am wearing white! It’s my first time!”) and she has set her sights on getting any possible inheritance when he falls into his well deserved grave–after all, she earned it, she waited 30 years, didn’t she?”

      Exactly. This is my guess as well. What kind of sorry fuck of a woman waits around as sloppy seconds for 30 years? She thinks she’s finally getting what she deserved all along. And what’s funny is, SHE’S RIGHT.

      • My late father-in-law had a mistress for about 25 years. He didn’t marry her when his wife died, but he did a handful of days before he died. Of course, that wasn’t a long enough marriage for her to take advantage of any of his military benefits.

        Supposedly she told STBX’s cousin that they knew what they were doing was wrong but couldn’t help themselves. WTF?

        Anyway, I do feel sorry for her, but I also think she got what she earned. My late father-in-law borrowed over $10,000 from her. He needed $4K to pay the taxes on his late wife’s house (why didn’t he sell it after she died? Both sons were long gone!). He needed another $9K because apparently he took off with some money from a relative’s estate before it went through probate, and then had to repay it (OW says he was confused as to how the inheritance went, but on the other hand, he was supposed to be clever with money).

        THen she spent $$$ on cremation and a fancy urn. He would have had a military funeral practically free. She got paid back for $9K out of the estate, but once everything had gone through probate and the checks were all cut, she then came back trying to claim the property taxes.

        My sense is that she finally started to wake up to the fact that she’d cheated on her own husband, wasted a good chunk of her life waiting for Cheater to marry her, and discovered that he’d died and left her holding the empty bank account.

  • Because,Livingmylife, the fuckwit OW is just like my STBXH’s little Schmoopie! They have to “feel” that they have “won”! Doesn’t make sense to us chumps, but to the seriously screwed up, it is like winning a grand prize!! And to the person who commented about Lord of the Rings and how awful these cheaters look, I agree! My formerly handsome hubs looks just like Popeye (no kidding), and has lost so much weight and is always seriously sick! I believe serious sin does that to you! The evil consumes you! Maybe Divorce Minister would like to weigh in on this!

  • “what kind of woman tolerates being a side dish fuck for 30 years? Unmarried, giving up her entire youth and child-bearing years waiting for the hypotenuse in her love triangle to die? How freaking pathetic is THAT?”

    That was the first thing I thought when I read this. What a pathetic, silly b****.

    • You said it ExPat! A pathetic silly B***h! These women are so seriously hard up so they end up losing so much more than they will EVER gain! Worse yet, they are NEVER respected by anyone, especially the idiot who is using them! Just think about 30 years of lonely holidays, birthdays, etc. sitting around waiting for some “user” to come over and feed you a few empty lines, crawling between the sheets, them waking up totally alone AGAIN! Just think, this user now knows you will tolerate the worst of abuse for very, very little! I wonder if she feels like a winner now?

  • If I was the letter writer, no fucking way would I go to that wedding. Nor would I buy the cheaters a gift. Instead, I would send an enormous arrangement of flowers to be delivered to the chump wife’s grave on the day of the wedding.

  • So obvious she’s only marrying the old git for his money. I’d be livid if I was the daughter.

    My father did similar. Had an affair when Mom was dying of cancer, didn’t try to hide it. SIX MONTHS after Mom’s death, they held a church wedding, reception, yadda yadda and I was supposed to attend with my two infant children and suck it up. My sister and brother had the balls to refuse to attend.

    I went, being 28 and not decisive enough to call the cheaters out on it. I sat there at the reception and listened to my old man give a speech, gushing about how he had “admired” schmoopie for years (she was a colleague’s widow). I couldn’t believe my ears that my own father who posed as a Jesus-righteous pillar of the community, would publicly admit that he had his eye on schmoopie for years and clearly started bopping her way before Mom left this earth. And…say it knowing I’d just lost my mother.

    I decided then and there that my kids would NEVER have to spend time with them. I didn’t want a couple of morally corrupt poser grandparents around. I told my father this to his face and left. He spent years playing “poor me” but I made sure my kids knew exactly why he was not a part of their lives.

    Schmoopie did spend the next 16 years spending as much of his money as possible. She finally got hit by the karma bus and died a painful death.

  • Good for you Marci! My STBX has been told by everyone in his family and our own children that they want absolutely nothing to do with him or his nasty paramour! They don’t want their children thinking his behavior is acceptable!

  • I have to say that any person who would cheat on a, I presume, faithful spouse for 30 years had no respect for that spouse, that marriage or for themselves. Any AP who would cheat with that person for 30 years obviously had no respect for the faithful spouse, the marriage or themselves. A woman willing to cheat with a married man for 30 years is clearly selfish, self-involved, self-absorbed or stupid or all of the above. This farce of a marriage ceremony she is going through (and probably insisting on) with this doddering (or soon to be doddering and drooling), equally selfish, self-involved, self-absorbed remorseless jackass is to prove to herself and to anyone who might actually care that giving up her life for this relationship was ultimately worth it and had some value. How sad, desperate and despicable you must be to haunt this woman’s marriage for 30 years with your only hope of ever having this man being her ultimate demise. Did she wish for that for 30 years?

    Women or men who are willing to involve themselves in a long-term (or short-term) relationship with a married person, seldom, if ever, view the faithful spouse of their affair partner as a human being with feelings or rights that deserve consideration. They are seen merely as an obstacle to be overcome or a competitor to be vanquished. Membership in the Navel-Gazers World Club requires you to check respect, consideration, morality, integrity, character and empathy at the door.

    Not only shouldn’t Disapproving attend any of the functions associated with these disgusting nuptials, neither should anyone else who actually has any remnant of a moral compass. It is almost as if these two hyenas are spitting on that dead wife’s grave. CL, the only thing missing in your letter is the wish that these two off-spring of Satan’s most atrocious mate end up burning in hell and taking Awful Amy with them.

    • So true, Chump Princess. My ex married the final OW and my ex in-laws refused to acknowledge that she was the ex’s wife in an obituary of a close family member. They just listed the ex’s name. No mention of the new wife. I have no idea if they even attended the wedding since I refuse to see my ex in-laws if they bring up the ex’s name.

  • These hasty remarriages after a spouse’s death always work out well:

    HORATIO
    My lord, I came to see your father’s funeral.
    HAMLET
    I pray thee, do not mock me, fellow-student;
    I think it was to see my mother’s wedding.
    HORATIO
    Indeed, my lord, it follow’d hard upon.
    HAMLET
    Thrift, thrift, Horatio! the funeral baked meats
    Did coldly furnish forth the marriage tables.

    • What a brilliant connection. As the chump who unknowingly delayed twu wuv for many years, yes… I am sure OWife would have happily terminated my life to get to my husband.
      XPOS and Shmoopie are terrible people. I guess I should count my blessings… 1.)life; 2.)this personality quirk called empathy.

  • I have found the Ask Amy column to consistently be a catalyst for normalizing low integrity, low character, poor boundaries and I have read several columns where she actively encourages people with obvious good character to question their own common sense and intuitions. There was a column in 2010 where she responds to a woman concerned about the prostitutes and strippers that would be used at a bachelor party that her husband is going to. This woman describes having a young family and states that this is not okay with her. Husband participating in the use of prostitution i.e. (she had good boundaries) Amy’s response to this woman was so pathetic, deluded and I believe seriously harmful. She either has no clue about the true reality of the normalization of prostitution or she thinks women with young children should turn a blind eye to their husband’s use and normalization of prostitution in a marriage. She pretty much told the person to trust her partner in a situation that this woman had clearly stated that she was not okay with for obviously sound and good reasons…. I have found so many of Ask Amy’s responses to be excessively passive regarding deviance, low integrity, poor character and the lack of healthy boundaries. This is how low character gets normalized and okay-ed in our societies… She is either so naive that she has no business writing an advice column or she has such a huge tolerance for low character, lack of integrity and low standards that she has no business writing an advice column. Either way what our world needs now is a higher standard for good character and NOT the normalization of harmful destructive, narcissistic behaviors of low character.

  • Thanks CL for calling out the BS in Amy’s response but I can’t say I’m surprised by her advice to Disapproving. Seems like people are SO willing to forgive/make excuses for cheaters. I struggle with my stbx family’s support of him. He blew up our marriage and now he has virtually no contact with his kids but somehow they all forgive and support him. One of his aunts tried to talk to me, I thought she was being supportive, but what she really wanted was for me to forgive him (got the “there is always two sides to everything” line from her). Of course there are other cheaters in his family including his father and sister so what’s one more?…one more piece of shit to add to the pile!

    • Lizzy, our cheaters must be from the same family. FIL cheated for years behind MILs back with her “best friend” and she had no idea until he told her one day he was leaving. Her “best friend” had money so he left her broke. All the kids but one seemed fine with it including my cheater. SIL left her husband for another man but never divorced him. Weird. The whole family cut me off even though he cheated and I was faithful. I’m sure he’s twisted the story to them but that’s fine with me. It hurts but don’t need their dysfunctional mess in my life anymore.

  • What I don’t understand is why the two kept the affair underground for 30 years and wouldn’t keep their wedding there too !?! They could just stay in their sneaky little burrow underground and have the decency not to rub anybodies nose in it…..

  • That advice not to “cause drama” by articulating “harsh judgement” is really getting to me today – not least because I am struggling with a strong urge to tell my own STBX just how much he sucks before I block him in every device.

    There is something about silence that allows reality to be “spun another way” that is deeply unhealthy for the gaslit.

    I know my anger is kibbles, though, so am typing here instead.

    • I am struggling today, too, Grizelda…. probably because my daughter came home from school yesterday upset because she was hearing about her dad’s new girlfriend from friends at school (2nd time this has happened in the past 3 months and with 2 different OW). We are not divorced yet, separated for 4 months and now she has to deal with this shit! I want to blow up his email with my anger but I know it will make no difference so here I am – thank God for CL!

      • God I know Lizzy – part of you wants to say: can you not show even a normal amount of human decency towards *your own child,* or pay some minimal attention to what they might need, given the bomb you have just set off in your family?? But no, they find new ways to suck instead.

        I plan to reroute my energies/frustration into attending my first ever rollerskating class tonight, run by the local derby chicks. Hope you find a good way to let off steams as well!

      • Stay strong, Lizzie, he’s a piece of crap and would enjoy your anger and disgust, he would take it as a compliment. Think how much stronger silence is. He does not know what you and your daughter are thinking, he will have no warning if she wants to confront him, and he cannot claim you are “crazy” and “can’t move on,” if you say absolutely nothing to him. The husband you thought you had is dead now, and certainly dead to you. Don’t let him in your head (at least don’t let him know he’s in there, such cake!).

        • Oh, and obviously, just silently go ahead and block him. That’ll speak a thousand better words.

  • I looked into “ask Amy” and the advice she serves up is….the kind of advice you’d expect from someone wearing a straight jacket and typing on her keyboard with a stick duct taped her mouth.

    I suspect Amy has bounced around in her padded cell far too much, and has not seen a real fork or knife for many years.

  • “But the legitimizing of a relationship between two consenting and legally available adults seems like a good thing, even if you don’t approve of how they got there.”

    “But the whitewashing of a adulterous relationship between two cheating adults seems like a good thing, even if you don’t approve of how they got there.”

    The ends are irrelevant, it’s the means that truly matter.

    • I would call Ask Amy an asshole or a piece of putrid monkey shit, but that would be insulting assholes and pieces of monkey shit everywhere.

      That column really needs to be renamed Ask Asinine Amy.

  • I am truly amazed at cheaters who can actually sleep peacefully at night, never caring about the people they’ve hurt, embarrassed or humiliated. Worse still is that they expect to be commended for the behavior even if it’s 10, 20 or 30 years later, as if that should make it all okay. As Martha mentions – there’s no minimizing the cheating, the lying, the emotional abuse etc.

  • I have better things to do than attend a shower or a wedding of two disordered people who were able to live a double life for 30 years. Watching toenails grow comes to mind.

  • My cheating husband carried on with his former mistress for twenty five years of our marriage. She married during those years and even named her son the same name as our son. A mutual friend claims the husband of the OW is gay. I don’t know him and I have no idea if this is true. What I do know is that my husband left me before and lived with the two of them. When he came back to me I thought all of that was over. Twenty years later I discovered he was still texting her about how he wanted to leave me and that she is the light of his life. When he ended it with her after many Ddays, her husband contacted him through Facebook looking to rekindle their “friendship”. It may have been Skankawhorus..
    In any event, old mistresses are trouble!

  • My brother in law got married about nine minutes after my sister died to one of her ‘best’ friends. I’ve never spoken to him again. I knew damn good and well they were playing footsies long before my sister died. No way did they ‘fall in love and marry’ within 30 days of my sister’s death. But you know what? They’ve been married 15 years and are doing JUST FINE. Just like my cheater XH and his skank. They seem to be doing fantastic. That’s the thing that gets to me the most. Sometimes cheaters do prosper. I don’t see bad shit happen to these people. They get great jobs and new houses and make lots of money and go on nice vacations whilst us chumps scrape by. I’ve went on exactly one vacation in eight years.

  • OMG Linda2, I don’t intend to find out if the over the hill skank my husband is bedding will be trouble down the line. If she is then he can deal with her all alone! These two narcs deserve each other!

  • Fuck you, Amy. Seriously . My asshat and his DECADE long MARRIED girlfriend had been plotting their love escape in 2012.

    No. These assholes do NOT need to be rewarded for destroying the lives of children (I’m going Switzerland on myself for the moment). There is only depravity deceit and duplicity between these soulless shitheads on their exploited manipulated and abused spouses and children.

    Fuck you, Amy. It’s NOT complicated. People who do these things lack integrity, honesty and character. The sheer FACT that people would engage in long term relationships OUTSIDE if their legal ones only indicates a tremendous amount of self absorption and zero empathy. Who the fuck celebrates THAT?

  • I bet Amy is an OW. I always liked “ask Carolyn” better anyway. She usually makes sense when she replies to a a question. Amy lets her personal emotions seep through. Did I mention I bet she is an OW?

    I do not see why a 70 year old would have a wedding anyway, it’s not likely he needs dishes or a coffee maker,

  • Think of the sad lie of a life those two cheaters subjected that poor deceased wife to…she went to her grave alone and unloved by her husband, whether she knew it or not. So they waited like piranhas, their eyes gleaming, for her to die…..hell, I wonder how she died, did they help put her in her grave? And this should be celebrated exactly why, and how? I agree, a pet cockroach would be nice, but it may be an insult to the cockroach. These people are the true vermin.

    • This is what I hope. I hope, during his marriage to the OW, his heart softens for his deceased wife and all he does is talk about her, miss her and wishes she were alive. I pray the sadness of his misspent life overcomes him with grief.

      I pray the OW’s thirty years of deceit got her nothing but a grieving widow.

      Gone with the Wind.

      That is my wish.

      • I’m right there with you CalamityJane! I always imagine that these fools have to push down a lot of their conscience in order to do what they are doing to their faithful mates. Hopefully once this “second hand” indecent woman is under his nose 24/7 he will realize just why he had her on the side ONLY for 30 years! I mean seriously, if she were all that then why didn’t he leave his wife for her a long time ago ?? I wish them luck cause they’ll need it. Seems they don’t have much of anything else! And they certainly don’t deserve much of anything else in my opinion!

        • Roberta, Roberta, you’re still assuming these people HAVE consciences! You have one, so you assume everybody does! They DON’T CARE. They aren’t experiencing ‘toxic shame’, they’re not pushing down their consciences, they’re not ‘unaware’ or in denial, THEY DON’T CARE about anyone but themselves, so they are FINE with what they do!

          It takes us chumps a long time to understand that, but if you really watch these cheating narcs, it starts becoming obvious.

          • Sorry KarenE! I keep forgetting that! I keep playing on that level playing field and forgetting that these assholes are playing on an entirely different field with very “flexible” rules! Mea Culpa!

        • Karen E is right, Roberta. They don’t care, it’s not pushed down. It just ain’t there.

          My wish is just that, a wish. An idealized wish. An ironic wish. A twist of fate wish.

          Someone should NOT have to die in order for the disordered to see the light or become a better person.

          The truth is, if something should happen to us, they just move on to the next. Don’t count on them missing you or wishing they had done something different. Don’t think they will suddenly realize what a great person you were. They are incapable of these feelings.

          That’s why you get out and stay out.

          They look at all their options and pick what is BEST FOR THEM no matter who it harms.

          Chumps see the whole picture.

  • “YOU DON’T CARE ABOUT MY HAPPINESS!!” (in defense if God awful stuff, trust me chumps) — that was one of my favorite things that my ex used to say to me.

    It’s all that matters: their happiness.

  • Hopefully a Chump will attend, drink excessively and let loose on said Cheaters at the reception.

  • Sounds like a charming human being HM. Aren’t you glad we’re not dragging these freaks around with us anymore?

  • Now that he’s marrying the side whore, and she’s becoming his wife.. will he need to find another on the side? I wonder if he already has one lined up at the old folks home. How lucky for her that the wife died. I bet he told her that he was just about to tell her he wanted a divorce, for real this time.

  • I don’t get it… I really don’t. Do these people really believe the bullshit they are selling?

    Can they not see the cruel joke of becoming engaged and getting married after a 30 year affair? The entire relationship is built upon making a joke of a marriage – and they are ‘going legit’ – by getting married?!?

    It is not complicated. Don’t cheat. If you cheat, accept that you are indeed an immoral, basically cruel, selfish person.

    As for the rest of the world. Yes – some things are black and white. If you want out of a relationship, tell the other person in the relationship. Starting a new relationship with someone else first is WRONG. It just is. There is no ‘yeah but’ – it is wrong.

    I find the hypocrisy, the justification, the sheer stupidity of it all exhausting. I am trying to be true to myself and be someone my kids would be proud of, but I have to admit – sometimes I just don’t want to live on this planet anymore…

    • jobin; I feel for & agree with you. Without trust in anyone, life is barren. I don’t have anyone in my life right now that wouldn’t step on my face to get where they are going. Family small, all Narcs. I must have some faith, I am still here!

  • Oh Jobin, don’t say you don’t want to live on this planet anymore! Life and this planet still offer some wonderful things! Don’t let some idiot cheaters color your outlook! Don’t let them dictate your love of life!

  • Did you see this, CL?

    http://epic-letter.viralnova.com/new-girlfriend/?mb=sga

    When I first read it, I thought it might be from a chump acting all chumpy. You know, like, “Good for YOU for fucking up my family! I like shit sandwiches, and I’m a bigger person!”

    But the more I look at it, I think it was written by a cheater, still pissing on her tree.

    What do you think?

  • This response from this dumb fuck pathetic excuse of an ‘advice section’ is nothing but cliches.
    Quite laughable, if it didn’t make you want to punch this bitch in the face – repeatedly.

  • First, this was an awesome post.

    Second, I never realized it until reading this…but so many questions I posed to EH over the last two years were answered with “well, it’s complicated.”

    Holy crap, just another check-box marked in the “yep, confirmed narcissist” list…

  • These two are a real piece of work. How could any Woman lower herself to be just a bit on the side for 30 years. How could she respect any Man that would cheat on his Wife for all that time and how could he respect her for hanging around just being his side dish for all that time.

    These cheater types are always two of a kind. Trash the pair of them. They truly deserve each other. Just like my STBXH and his whore. These two fuckers were cheating and having their sleazy affair behind my back for six years. I nearly lost my mind when I found out. Now the pair of them are going to marry once our divorce is through. I asked him why bother seeing as the pair of you have no respect for marriage. He just looked at me with a confused look on his face. I also told him that it would be best if they didn’t marry in Church as the Church might be hit by lightning if they did. I long for the day when he cheats on her. I’ll laugh my head off.

    In someways I hope this poor deceased Wife didn’t know about these two slime balls. May she RIP poor Woman and may these two scum bags never know any peace.

  • It seems that the adultery relationships that I know.of and heard of live happily ever after. I really hope not I hope my EX isn’t going to be happy with the OW. I know life isn’t fair and we have to make the best but it definitely is not easy. Why does it cause us so much pain when the cheater gets off being happy? The OW in my EXs life is still married.

  • Always follow the money. I’ll bet he spent a lot of family money on her. Trips, rent etc. Then his wife may have been ill for a while and used up all his pretty money so that is why a 50 something year old woman is out there begging. He is about three years away from the beginnings of old age issues. You can’t escape them. Heart issues, arthritis, digestive problems, falls, joint damage and canes, walkers, wheelchairs and replacement knees etc. I have a friend whose husband is considerably older and her life is one trip to the ER after another. The question isn’t what is wrong with him, it’s what ISN’T wrong with him. His problems take up all her time. She loves him but her life is not her own anymore.
    A man who cheats on his wife for 30 years is a piece of shit. No way around it. They deserve each other.

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