UBT: Maybe Our Problem Is We Work Too Well Together
Since yesterday’s post, everyone has been sending me their Universal Bullshit Translator submissions. Oh, the moist, delicious cakey-ness! I chose Andrew’s submission today. It could kill you from treacle, send you into apoplexies of diabetic shock from its sheer sugariness. See, Andrew’s cheater has a unique mindfuck — it’s not that Andrew sucks, it’s just that they’re so perfect together, so utterly in sync — that she had to cheat. Without further ado…
Dear Chump Lady,
This is from my then wife of just shy of 10 years with whom I have three daughters. She sent this letter about a month after I found out about her online affair involving video chat/masturbation sessions, exchanged “I love yous”, facebook messaging beside me with me none the wiser. I later found out she wrote him a letter too. All this while she was out of town for a family wedding that I couldn’t make it to.
Her hand written letter which arrived in the mail:
Dear Andy
So much of who I am is because of you, because we have grown together, entwined and shaping each other along the way. We’ve had trials and issues that we’ve really seemed to sail through because out support and understanding of each other is so strong. We are unified and we do make a great team.
This is the first time we’ve been tested from within our relationship. It’s strange and unsettling, to say the least. I feel out of step with more than just you but with myself and with everything I’ve ever wanted. And I DO want it and with you!
We had a weird rocky start but once we were fully committed to each other we really have been as one. I don’t think we forgot to work on ourselves or see each other along the way. We didn’t even stop communicating, though misunderstandings about seriousness and responsibilities like our fabulous kids and a full life of scheduledness got in the way.
Maybe our problem is really simple. We work so well together that we have never really needed to work on our togetherness. we will be better in the future, and it will be a long one. I love you forever, no matter what. You are the most wonderful man I have ever met. You are completely and utterly irreplaceable. We match and compliment each other in more ways than I can count.
I look forward to getting past this bump and seeing what the rest of life has in store. I am sure it will be a beautiful and interesting road and I am incredibly fortunate to get to ride it with you. We’ll be more prepared for the next sets of bumps.
All my love
Cheating Fuckwit (named changed to protect the cake eating)
xoxox.
My first thought, Andrew, is I wonder how much of this letter did she recycle for the OM? (He got a letter too, right?) I mean, once you’ve written “we have grown together, entwined and shaping each other along the way” why kill your darlings?
Anyway, let’s put this cotton candy crap through the patented Universal Bullshit Translator. Hope the gears don’t gum up.
Dear Andy
So much of who I am is because of you, because we have grown together, entwined and shaping each other along the way.
Like morning glories! Or grape vines! Or bind weed!
Woman has no boundaries. “So much of who I am is because of you.” Really? What about the cheater bits? Is Andy responsible for those? How about your left elbow?
Cliched tripe. No, she is a distinct person responsible for her choices. She operates very selfishly. This entire letter’s theme is We Are One. She’s trying to convince you of your unity, when her actions tell a very different tale.
We’ve had trials and issues that we’ve really seemed to sail through because out support and understanding of each other is so strong. We are unified and we do make a great team.
Did she eat a Human Resources training manual for breakfast?
Yeah, her “I love you”s and sex videos are just a trial to “sail through” if you just apply that ol’ support and understanding you’ve always shown, Andy. Be a good chump now and finish your progress reports.
This is the first time we’ve been tested from within our relationship.
That you know of.
It’s strange and unsettling, to say the least.
Sort of like when you stand up too fast and get a head rush. Yeah, affairs are just like that.
I feel out of step with more than just you but with myself and with everything I’ve ever wanted. And I DO want it and with you!
Note that nowhere does she say what she did was wrong or hurtful to you, just “out of step” with who she really is (a splendid, perfect teammate). But hey, that thing she doesn’t mention doing, that she’s not one bit sorry about? Here’s some assurance — she wants YOU! You win the pick me dance! Isn’t that special? She wants “it”!
No mention of what exactly “it” is, but fill in the blanks, okay Andy? It’s you, the marriage. Whatever “it” is, she can later assert that you assumed the wrong “it.” Vagaries work like that.
We had a weird rocky start but once we were fully committed to each other we really have been as one.
What was the weird rocky start? Did she cheat before this? We really “have been as one” is just gaslighting. Since “we were fully committed” — she wasn’t fully committed. She cheated on you. But she’d like to hide her affair under the umbrella of “have been as one.” It’s just version of the old cheater chestnut “But I loved you all along.”
Whatever.
I don’t think we forgot to work on ourselves or see each other along the way. We didn’t even stop communicating, though misunderstandings about seriousness and responsibilities like our fabulous kids and a full life of scheduledness got in the way.
Huh? Got in the way of what?
I take this to mean that hey, you’re more fabulous than most couples. Unlike lesser people, you never forgot to work on yourselves. You’re awesome! And your children are fabulous! It’s just that sometimes kids and schedules get in the way of… fantasy affair fucking and sex videos. Soccer matches and science reports and dinner cooking really wreak havoc on the good times.
Maybe our problem is really simple. We work so well together that we have never really needed to work on our togetherness.
UBT is gobsmacked at this one.
Let’s replace the verbs and see if it makes any more sense.
We manufacture carburetors so well that we’ve never needed to work at manufacturing carburetors.
In other words, our carburetor manufacturing is effortless!
So is your relationship! Why go through all that marriage counseling and reading those dry, earnest self-help books? Why try to fix what isn’t broken? You work so well together!
We will be better in the future, and it will be a long one.
Typical cheater, assuming reconciliation. And backing it up with a tired cliche — “we will be better” because I said so.
I love you forever, no matter what. You are the most wonderful man I have ever met. You are completely and utterly irreplaceable. We match and compliment each other in more ways than I can count.
I love me! We match! I am the most wonderful person I’ve ever met! You too! You’re an extension of me! Look, I’m giving you very generic non-specific kibbles! (What specifically do you love?) I’m irreplaceable! Never replace me because we have a long, better future together! I need CAKE and I can’t have cake without a chump!
I look forward to getting past this bump and seeing what the rest of life has in store. I am sure it will be a beautiful and interesting road and I am incredibly fortunate to get to ride it with you.
It’s not cheating! It’s a BUMP! Singular. One Single Bump. That just happened. We just find bumps in the road. Who put the bump there? No one can say. They just appear. Frost heaves. Badly set concrete. Who knows? What we do know, is that bumps exist but what matters is the “beautiful and interesting road.”
Bumps make roads more INTERESTING. People who don’t masturbate on sex videos? Their roads are unblemished and dull, unlike your interesting, beautiful road.
Besides, she’s never going to do this again. It was JUST ONE BUMP. Let’s see what the rest of life has in store!
We’ll be more prepared for the next sets of bumps.
Holy shit.
Run, Andrew. Run.
This letter made me ill. Listen to chump lady!! I was blown away by, not only her not accepting one ounce of tesponcibility for trashing your marriage, but not one “I’m sorry!”. Not. One.
My ex husband said similar things. “If I could be monogamous, I’d be with you! You are the love of my life!” All the while saying the same shot to his main other woman. (There were several at the time) I said, “get the fuck out!”
His girlfriend caught him cheating & spoke to me. She was pretty shucked to find out I was one who ended the marriage…and that there were so many. And she wasn’t the first. I was clueless about his cheating our whole marriage. Everyone was shocked. Perfect couple! NOPE. I don’t care about that woman, I only say this because they work every angle. She’s dtill with him. Gas lighting works on her. These cheaters only care about themselves. We all are just to be used. Don’t let yourself be used! I was pregnant with 2 small kids went I ended my marriage. 2 1/2 years later I’m so happy. I’m with a fellow chump & had no clue how short changed I was until i found myself in a relationship with someone who was truly giving.
Fucking run, Andy! Run!
My STBX actually said to me, “I want a monogamous relationship!” He was a mega-serial cheater in his former marriage–over 20 people in a 10 year marriage–screwed them in his marital bed, his office, etc., + possibly a serial cheater in our relationship, too (kicked him out on the basis of one affair, then uncovered a second).
These cheater are delusional.
Thanks for this Tempest. My STBX husband is a Super serial CHEATER OF 20 years and now he is dating a woman and swears he wants a monogamous relationship with her. I just snicker and snark at the poor woman’s illusions.
Your comment made me feel better that he will not change for her.
But, i am sorry you had to find out the hard way! I am really really sorry.
Thanks–life is for learning. I got two gorgeous daughters out of the fucktard, and ended up moving with him to a city I adore.
But you’re right–feel confident they don’t change. Your STBX will be waggling his willy outside this current relationship in 10, 9, 8, 7……
As mucher as I don’t want a ton of woman in and out of my small kids lives, this dumb bitch knew he was married. Was FB friends with him & commented on our vacation photos. I’ve made peace with her, and frankly, if it wasn’t for her I’d never have know the asshole had been cheating the whole marriage. BUT…she’s such an idiot to believe he’ll ever stop! He just hit on my the other day. I side glanced him, he goes “I lniw, you don’t cheat!” I said “no, I dont. Even if I was single, I’d never be a whore. And thirdly, I wouldn’t tough you with a 10 foot pole if we were both single.”
The delusions are so strong!
Tallula…I made peace with my OW too…at first I really hated her but I finally realized if she hadn’t come in the picture I would have never seen my STBXH true colors….and eventually it would have been some OW it just happened to be her! But it still bothers me to this day that she seen something in him that I didn’t, me and many others never thought he would have done this….but she seen he would and she persued him, knowing he wouldn’t tell me and they could have their lil fling…she admitted she persued him but he should have came to me, I don’t blame her at all if he hadn’t wanted to screw her he would not have
Okay, it has been pointed out by a well-meaning friend that marrying someone who, in his previous marriage, had slept with over 20 people on an extracurricular basis might make me, well, an idiot. Agreed, and I would get IDIOT tattooed on my forehead, except that I hope it is/was a temporary state.
The Cliff Note version of why I might have done that: (a) Cheater claimed that his former wife had given him “permission” to cheat because his sex drive was so much stronger than hers. I was young, I believed that;
(b) I believed the “You are special” drivel–he wouldn’t cheat on me because our sex drives and intellects were more matched. [Note to self to tell daughters: NEVER EVER believe that line if someone is using it to justify bad behavior that they won’t perform anymore because “you are special.” Ted Bundy probably used that line.]
(c) My moniker is Tempest for a reason–he was scared of me when i was angry with him, and I never thought he’d have the balls to cheat when I had warned him heartily against it. I guess I underestimated his balls and/or his ability to perform cost/benefit analysis.
Tempest,
Sorry that you had to learn about character disorder the hard way. What a sleaze!
cheaters
You just have to love this shit. Yikes, who or what churns these folks out. Sounds like she was cloned from Esther Perel, or Rebekah Gordon or my first XW.
I know that this has been observed many , many times on this site, but the way these people talk and write is consistently full of bullshit.
I often wondered if, rather than the cheating and lying my XW did, it was not the incredible embarrassment I would have felt over her dumbness, that would have been the biggest obstacle to reconciliation. I am , simply, amazed at the gibberish that comes out of these assholes’ mouths.
How does a person of even limited intelligence spout this stuff without feeling like the fool that he or she is?
She tripped over a bump and fell on the dick of another man. That happens all the time on the road to Cheaterville. It’s not her fault. Bumps just come up from time to time.
Andy, you can’t stumble over ‘bumps in the road’ that are behind you. Keep moving forward and put this mealy mouthed waste of female dna behind you!
And did you notice how she is preparing him for the next “set of bumps”-plural? She is already conditioning him to her future cheating. The other thing that immediately jumped out at me was the “love of my life line”, which was my X’s mantra. Sorry, if you are out fucking other people, your spouse is not the love of your life!
Why do cheaters say this shit? To keep us hooked. How can we walk away from this kind of love? Will we ever be loved this way again? It’s all smoke and mirrors; the only person these folks love is themselves. But by professing their undying love, cheaters are setting us up to be the bad guy when we put an end to the insanity. Is there a website that cheaters use to get templates for these letters, because they all sound alike.
“Will we ever be loved like this way again?”
God. I hope not!
Exactly. Narcissistic love is fool’s gold. It seems so real and valuable at first, but once you’re sucked in, you discover it is worthless. And while you are struggling to disengage, the cheater is furiously trying to convince you that your love is so special, like none other. At least that’s what my X tried to do, but then, we had been married a long time and he had alot to lose…and lose it he did.
Violet, Fool’s Gold is spot on!
Violet, so true. “Fool’s Gold” Indeed.
This cheater letter could have been written by my eH. I had a a whole shopping bag full of them. I remember when I thought “wow, he REALLY loves me! Look what he created, just for me!”
Yeah, they were all crap. And not very well written, too.
I shredded every last one and recycled the whole mess. Maybe something good can come of the paper, at least.
I even watched the recycle truck dump the mess. Those little shredded bits flew all over the place, like confetti.
It’s good to have that junk gone.
Chumplady you are the bomb! I am such a chump that I read the letter and think maybe she is truly sorry… then it goes through the UBT and I realise WTF this SHIT is disturbed! I have a lot to learn but being newly divorced and getting on with it is a FABULOUS first step.
And just 6 months after our divorce and 10 months after D-Day… guess who is engaged???? Nope not me… this chump is waiting until the UBT is fully installed in her chumpy brain!
Time doesn’t heal… making new better choices does!!
I know what you mean, SM. That’s why it’s good to have a Chump Tribe available to help steer us while we learn correctly see what is in front of our faces. I still fall for Chump Land Mines like this letter sometimes. Makes my skin crawl when I really see past the sparkles and Lies.
My problem is I want to believe the best of everybody. It’s hard to learn not to take people at face value.
Me too, Lyn. That’s why I keep getting into stupid email exchanges with my ex. I start thinking that he’ll behave like a decent, compassionate human being, and he continues to act like an asshat cyborg. I’m working on getting that through my thick skull.
I had finally figured this out about the ex, so he got smarter. He waits quite a while, now even months, and we have several reasonable communications (kids and money), then he’ll start up again, and I bite!! Fortunately, I can now find it more amusing than upsetting.
Andrew,
Your wife is correct. Your future will be a long one.
She will never forget her special moments with the OM’s and neither will you. Everyday you will remember some little detail.
In the end she will dump your ass because you just couldn’t let it go. Her new narrative will be that your reaction to what she did destroyed the marriage not her infidelity. If she hasn’t starting laying the ground work for this narrative yet just listen close. It’s coming. “Oh Andrew, you have to let this go, if you dwell on the past it will ruin what we have.” Shut that shit down as soon as she says it. Tell her that what she did is what’s breaking down the marriage and not your reaction.
Don’t let her trap you into thinking its on you. If you let her ride this narrative it will be the next reason to justify the next big bump in the road!
She’s already predicted there will be more bumps to come. Believe her. She’s actually being honest in that statement.
Late as always, but this does have a certain hidden tone of, “Oh, Andy, IF you can just raise your game a bit, everything can be so incredible again and hopefully I won’t feel the need to do this again.”
Wonderful.
My ex’s favourite was ” what is more important – the past or the future?” Trouble is that the past/future were “as one” to borrow a gem from Andrews wife – the future turned out to be more of the same. More stuff that I could not get over and move on from so it was really me who kept us stuck there.
My ex super did this, after completely destroying his relationship w/our kids. “There’s no point in focusing on the past! I want to move forward!”.
Well, so did the kids, just without him.
And she’ll expect Andrew to “get over it already” without ever having offered a single apology, an iota of accountability, or any acknowledgement whatsoever of the emotional devastation she caused him. That’s just the way they roll.
REALLY!?!? This letter just floored me! My gosh she just acts like and assumes he is going to be all forgiving and they will go on with their lives like nothing even happened and all will be great in the future! OMG…she needs bitch slapped….tell me where she is lol….this really takes the cake!!
Yep…
Yesterday we had a grown ass man writing with the skills of a third grader. Today we have someone writing with an adult skill level with the maturity of a third grader!
Gee Whiz !
the term “bitch slap” crossed my mind as well…lol
Me too! I’m just was mouth open floored by this letter. Even my douche bag ex had the smarts to constantly apologize. Didn’t work in me, thank God!
Tallula…the apologies and BS isn’t working on me either! I don’t even care if he is a unicorn and truly sorry for what he did! They knew at the time what they were doing is wrong! I just don’t believe you can do something so wrong to the one person you are suppose to protect and then be sorry for it..lit doesn’t work that way! It’s unacceptable !
I am such a chump that i actually did forgive him the first time. i even felt like i pushed him to it since i ignored him for 2 years while we were separated. i promised never to bring it up again, and i never did. in fact, i forgave him completely so that the last time we separated and he hooked up with a hood rat, i was completely and utterly SHOCKED. i couldnt believe it. some days, i STILL cant believe it.
but you have a point, a person cant do something so wrong to the person he said he loved and suppose to protect…..
you are super right that is is unacceptable
Mrsvain I have read some of your post on here before and my heart always aches for you because you seem to still love your ex even after all the hurt he caused you and I do commend that to be able to love unconditionally….that is nothing to be ashamed of you should actually be proud of that! But what my STBXH affair did to me was cause me to look at him differently and make me hate him…sometimes it even makes me wonder if I ever loved him as much as I thought I did – because if I loved him so much at one time…how could I hate him so much now?
So true, mrsvain. We wouldn’t hate them so much if we hadn’t loved them so much to begin with.
oh yes. i actually do still love him. and yes, i love unconditionally. however, that doesnt mean that i want him back or even that i dont hate what he did. i never wonder about my love for him, my love was true, my love was strong, i love hard, i love forever. but it was never a question about MY love, his love on the other hand is completely CONDITIONALLY, his love is the shallow, selfish kind of love, he never truely gives all of his love but holds back so he doesnt get hurt. and i guess he wasnt hurt too much by our divorce and was able to replace me very quickly.
i dont want to live like that no matter how much i love him.
i believe hate is just a form of strong feelings. you couldnt hate him so much if you didnt love him so much. if you felt nothing or didnt love him so much then you wouldnt be hurt so badly enough to hate him. if that makes sense. if you didnt love him at all, you wouldnt care that he is gone. like the man that i married seems not to care in the least that i am out of his life. he was able to turn his back and walk out on 14 years with me AND his children so easily. He doesnt think of us. He doesnt miss us. He doesnt care if we eat or have a house or in good health. we flat out do not exist anymore in his mind and world……….i think it is a good thing that you hate him because it shows how much you did love him. once the hate is gone and you feel nothing at all. then you know the love is gone.
You know what else makes a bump? A dead body under the carpet. But I’ll bet no one’s to blame for that, either.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
Lol…
Awesome NWB!
lmao
Love this too! NWB!
“This is the first time we’ve been tested from within our relationship.”
Yes, the first time either of us has betrayed and stabbed the other in the back! But not the last, oooooh, no, you can expect many repeats of these ‘tests’ of the relationship. You know, it’ll be a test when I get tired of your being upset and distrusting, and blame you for our not getting back to our usual fabulousness. It’ll be a test when you’re still thinking of the lovely image of me masturbating in front of the webcam for SOMEONE ELSE, while you’re trying to make love with me!
But you know, what doesn’t kill us, makes us stronger! We’ll be even more fabulous than before! Because I just ASSUME this is just a bump, and you’re fine with carrying on with our relationship. Such a tiny bump that I don’t even need to apologize for it. Well, it probably wasn’t my fault anyway, it was a little bump, every couple has those. You know, Bobby and Sam had that bump when they had to decide whether they’d move for Sam’s new job. My mom and dad had that bump when she was ill. Our neighbours had the bump when she was unemployed for a while. It’s all the same, it’s just things that happen!!!!
The reality is, she’s using potent chump-bait; reminding him of the WE that he thought he was participating in, and longs to get back. But when you’re flirting and having e-sex, there is NO WE. It’s just me, me, me, all the way.
I remember at Thanksgiving, a few months after d-day when I was still being fooled into reconciliation being a possibility, I couldn’t muster up anything to be thankful for at the big family dinner. My MIL asked my husband if everything was okay, and he confessed that we were in a “rut” just then. Yeah, a HUGE rut called ‘I want my wife to accept my lover but she refuses! She’s making me choose!’
Bump, rut, whatever you want to call it, it’s a mountain of pain that YOU caused. We’re not past it until you dismantle it lump by lump and rebuild the road.
My X was encouraged to explain our seperation as follows, ” we were having a few issues that we needed to work on” when it became clear to all that reconciliation was not an option. The response was ” we were having trouble agreeing on things” when I confronted him on his lack of responsibility for the demise of our marriage he responded ” I’m dealing with my issues, it is up to you to deal with yours. If you choose to end our marriage that is on you”.
Yep the catch phrases are far easier than being honest.
My ex told people we separated because we were “going through a rough patch”. Yeah, it was rough for me alright, but he was high on cake!
I got the “we were going through a rough patch” line too!! .I found out about the” rough patch” about a year and a half later. I thought he had been distant and a bit angry, but has/had a demanding job, so even though I had my moments of wondering, he had said many times he would never do this to me and I believed him.
I wondered about why I had not been informed about this? I guess because the rough patch didn’t occur until he saw an easy piece of ass who got his fantasies going.
“But when you’re flirting and having e-sex, there is NO WE. It’s just me, me, me, all the way.” Exactly, Karen E. Exactly.
Or maybe- “this is the first time you actually caught me” Just a thought.
I have no words other than Tracy’s….Run!
This letter is a set up. Notice how often she mentions “WE”? Andrew, if you don’t take a bite of that luscious cake with her (because you’re both “one” dontchaknow), those “we’s” will turn to “YOU”. YOU caused her to cheat. YOU weren’t a loving husband. YOU did this and YOU did that.
She is setting YOU up to take responsibility for HER cheating.
At least, that’s my take.
The level of delusion in letters like this is frightening.
I got a faux-pology letter once from an ex- who cheated and was a NPD master of gaslighting and manipulation. It made my head explode. I shouldn’t have read it. I did destroy it. Now I wish I had saved it because it was astonishing how flowery it was but how it was just complete and utter bullshit. It was a “I’m sorry you feel that way” or a “I’m sorry I did what I did because of what you did” type of apology.
It is never “I cheated on you and I’m deeply sorry for my actions and choices.”
It is always some ’round about list of bullshit excuses and romantic (HA!) “but I love you more than life itself” and “we (WE!) need to let this go and look to the future (HA!) and move forward (to my next affair)” extravaganza. ugh
How to these people navigate the real world?
Narcissistic people navigate the real world poorly. Take a good look around and you’ll probably see how many people are pissed off with them, other than their spouses and kids. Employers, work colleagues, neighbours, siblings, parents, friends, acquaintances, golf buddies – the list is endless. Relationships come and go in quick succession for them, as they blithely carry on through life, in their superficial, disordered way. They never learn from their mistakes because they don’t feel they ever make mistakes. The line: “I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong” is their mantra.
Ahhhhh!!!!!! My X actually used to say this ~ “I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong”……….. ALL THE TIME as a joke of course. Ugh!! I was such a chump!
KarenE: Indeed, what are the odds, that every boss is an idiot? But they’re not idiots at the beginning of the job. Does this sound familiar: “I love my new boss”. Many platitudes follow: “The new job is a welcome challenge”, ” I can hardly wait to get started”, “I’m really going to make something out of this position” – then they quickly get tired; they’re bored, so begin to devalue the boss and the job. Poor performance ensues. Does the sequence of events sound familiar in another context? The marital context perhaps?
My ex went through so many jobs, I can’t even remember them all anymore. He was never tremendously successful at any of them, up until his last job at the bank. And in looking back, my suspicion now is that the reason he was so successful there is he had a great assistant who was probably the one really doing all the work.
Omg. Yes. You are 100% right. Wow.
Tflan….yes to this! This is something I noticed early on in our relationship and I should have seen it as a red flag but of course I overlooked and made excuses for him…”oh they just misunderstood him” or “they are just jealous of him” Geeesss I was so stupid and blind! He never kept friends for long and when they got away from him I would hear the rumors how they would talk about what a bad person my STBXH was….I don’t know why I didn’t see it? I guess because he never was bad to me up until his affair he was a good husband.
Oh, me, too. Jackass has only one friend, a work colleague, and he told me all about how they had cookouts and bonfires, etc., but during the time I was involved with him, there was not one social contact. He is and has been at odds with both his siblings, his sister-in-law and has a long list of former employers for whom he feels contempt and whom he holds responsible for his reduced lot in his professional life. I heard the “I am persecuted” and “they are jealous ” and “I should be the boss” lines over and over. Narcissist playbook.
My favourite line from a chronically unemployed narcissist’s playbook: “All my bosses have all set me up for failure” – no, sunshine, YOU set yourself up for failure – every time.
My X Narc would always say. I achieve the goals they set and just as I do they move the posts. In the 20 years I have known my X he has had more than 20 jobs. Stella employment record.
My STBX is a truck driver, so it was always easy for him to job hop. The hardest part for him was finding enough paper to list all the companies in his 10-year work hiustory. And of course, the pay gaps between steady checks were my responsibility to cover. And yes, it was always a honeymoon period where the new job was the best one ever, until someone questioned or corrected him. And then it was the worst job in the world. It’s like a saying he used to project onto the younger males in my family: ‘That boy has a lot of quit in him.’
This is so true of my ex. Despite his being very smart, well-educated (M.Sc, Ph.D, and MBA) and hard working, he never stays in a job long. No matter how pleased with it he was in the beginning, soon I’d start hearing about how his boss is an idiot, and so annoying. He’d end up looking for another job, sometimes got ‘laid off’ or ‘contract not renewed’ before he found something else, leading to periods of unemployment. We were together 14 years, I think there were 7 jobs plus multiple contract positions, and EVERY SINGLE boss was an idiot. What are the odds?
One friend, only, who he treated badly. No relationship w/any of his siblings. But according to him, the reason we’re not together anymore is that I’m hard to get along with. Uhuh.
I would be curious to take a poll of chump ex’s employment records – I’ll bet most are pretty bad. Many jobs over many years – not too much stability there. My guess – employers get tired of these people real quick and fire them before they have time to do too much damage. They are easily replaceable by decent hard-working people. The only people who hang on to narcissists are those that have an emotional investment in them. And as well all know, those relationships are fraught with problems. So, take a good look at your spouse’s employment record – if it’s sketchy, there’s a red flag. Disordered people’s problems spill over into all facets of their lives.
“This is the first time we’ve been tested from within our relationship.”
Actually, it was SHE was tested from OUTSIDE the relationship.
She failed.
Oh YES!!! i believe that the devil sent someone to test my husband loyalty, fidelity, honesty, integrity and his faith……it makes me very very sad that unfortunately my husband failed.
Blame shifting is such a skill especially when we believe their lies. It goes like this: I didn’t kiss her she kissed me, our eyes just met I looked at her and she looked at me, it just happened. Cheaters cheat. I have never been approached by anyone who could make me cheat. Two pigs fucking. The devil made him do it?? That is laughable.
X writes to then 16 year old, “sometimes these things just happen and even though she is only a few years older than you, that’s not necessarily a bad thing.” I never got a letter like this. I got a text, the one where he forgot my name and called me everything else under the sun before finishing with “at least I’ve got someone!” I didn’t bother to reply to tell him that she was more like a “someTHING”….he wouldn’t have been able to think of anymore names to call me.
My X blamed a brief affair and multiple hook ups over 8 years on an unclean sexual spirit that he was “delivered” of 4 months after d’day. It didn’t improve his narc personality.
Andrew, good job breaking the crazy cycle… or should I call it the road she “gets to ride with you”.
Now I am sad that my Ex didn’t write me a post-infidelity letter. (unless you can count all the court documents where he tried to get me legally wiped off the face of the earth)
The gist would have gone like this:
“Good bye Lily, I can get any woman, married or single. Sincerely, Thor”
Maybe it was a typo. “Bump” means “hump.”
Buckle up! It’s gonna be a humpy ride!
Hilarious!
Yes, the “test” thing is just so much bullshit.
Cheating isn’t “testing” a relationship. Cheating is a choice and it is disrespectful at best. Cheating is all about lying over and over about many different things. Cheating is an activity. It is about making bad choices daily, many times per day, day after day.
They talk about it like it is a one time, no big deal thing even if it has gone on for years. We will (there’s that “we” again) get through this….
according to the man i married he NEVER cheated on me because we “broke up” during the times we were separated dontchaknow
I see that she missed off the PS.
“PS: I didn’t consider cheating on you as a risk, which is why I was happy to share “I wub you’s” with ChafeMyDongle12 while I sat right beside you on our sofa – you’re a sure thing and would never leave me, and we both know it.
However, in light of your unexpected and totally unreasonable and overly dramatic reaction to my harmless experimentation on Chaturbate, it’s clear that you are going to be tiresome and short-sighted about this whole thing and expect me to placate you – I trust this letter was suitable for that purpose.
It is super important to me that my lifestyle continues just as I like it, uninterrupted by financial detriment, the inconvenience of finding a one bedroomed apartment, custody battles, and unnecessary and pesky legal mumbo jumbo.
So, I am taking this opportunity to remind you of my awesomeness (which is why you married me to begin with, of course). You and I both know that you can’t do better than me, so let’s just cut to the chase – I wub you, you wub me back. Let’s stop this jealousy nonsense and move on, because your reaction is affecting other people -mostly me- and that show of selfishness is so unbecoming.
Yes, I know how lucky you are to have me. Now, kindly pass the whipped cream to moisten my cake, because I am sure you wouldn’t want me to choke on it.”
Wayfarer,
Congratulations! You have demonstrated profoundly perceptive Universal Bullshit Translation skills and have been awarded a Certificate of Excellence!
Thanks for making me laugh harder than I have in quite some time! ChafeMyDongle12!!!! (still giggling!)
Poor old ChafeMyDongle12 – I’m sure the giggles aren’t doing much for his ego. He might be well advised to change his screen name, and being the helpful sort, I can suggest: Mocked_Till_It_Dropped, or GuiltedAndWilted? Maybe even LampoonedMyHarpoon?
As for my certificate, thank you MightyMite, I am now considering a line of ‘I Waded Through Cheater-Brain’ neckerchiefs, with maybe some ‘I’m Speak Cheater-Think’ merit badges? Maybe even a ‘Cheater-Speak Guru’ woggle?
Anyway, I’m happy to have raised a smile for some of you! 🙂
(Yes, that should read, ‘I Speak Cheater-Think’ merit badges? Doh!
Very very funny!
LOVE that “12” had to be added. Eleven other morons, or is he talking about his size? Either way, LAME!
Very well translated! Huge LOL at ChafeMyDongle12. HUGE.
ROFLMAO-Wayfarer!! love the ChafeMyDongle12!!
OMG! LMAO!!!
Coffee spewed all over my monitor – ChafeMyDongle12!!! LOL!!!
So that’s what a hand job is now termed….”dongle chafing.” 🙂
Good God, so many I’s in that! And “we” is just another word for “I” in this (24 instances). Andy is only mentioned twice! “You are the most wonderful man I have ever met.” – Had to ruin it with the I there! And “You are completely and utterly irreplaceable.”
He is completely and utterly irreplaceable, and that is why she had to try to replace him? was her masturbating in front of a web cam for everyone to watch because she knew she couldnt replace her husband? i am confused. at what point did she figure out he was irreplaceable and at what point did she make the decision that her actions, lies and choices were not going to hurt him or didnt matter if they did hurt him. you would think that if he was so irreplaceable she wouldnt do anything to lose him, but her actions contradict her words.
“He is completely and utterly irreplaceable, and that is why she had to try to replace him?”
Mrsvain, she didn’t try to replace Andrew. She wanted Andrew *AND* ‘cake’!!! She wanted to be married (notice that I didn’t say that she wanted her ‘marriage’!) AND have her side piece(s).
It’s as if the cheater wants to cheat the system. They want only the BENEFITS of being married AND, whatever benefits they’re not getting from being married, they find in someone else to *complete* the package.
As far as possibly ‘losing’ Andrew, she didn’t think that was even a possibility. She was focused on her own happiness, that Andrew wasn’t even a thought.
To say these disordered folks are delusional is an understatement.
Yep. She wanted Andrew to be her pet wage earner/co-parent and secondary Kibble source.
He probably is irreplaceable, many of us chumps are great, that’s why she wants to keep him! There are many ways she could have kept him; being a loyal wife, treating him well, appreciating him. But she wants the usual cheater solution; I will do whatever the f I feel like doing, and I still get to keep you! There will be no consequences for my behavior! These are not the ‘droids you are looking for!
“We’ll be more prepared for the next sets of bumps.
Holy shit.”
My thoughts exactly. She’s basically telling you she’s going to do this again. RUN!!!! NC as much as possible with this fucktard.
My translator is a more basic model than Chump Lady’s — my translation is: Dear Andy, don’t divorce me because I am not ready to give up our home, our children, or any of the other things our relationship has provided me over the years. I don’t have nearly enough money hidden, because I didn’t think you would catch on to my affair. Next time I cheat, I will be much sneakier and much better at hiding my actions. You will probably have to invest in spyware and maybe a Private Investigator to figure it out. In the meantime, I will assure you how fabulous I am, oops, I mean we are, and I will continue to do whatever in the hell I want to do. I might even be able to get you to increase my kibbles, because now that you know how fabulous and desirable I am, perhaps I can convince you to provide me with more attention and cake. That would be so wonderful for me. I can have you and all the security you provide, and I can act out my fantasy sex life with my other lover(s). How great is that????
I read a post on Huffington yesterday where a woman talks about trying to use her knowledge of porn to seduce her wayward husband back into the marriage. She basically was going to be sluttier than the OW, and she thought her husband had only cheated because she had not given him enough attention. She blamed herself, and she was going to go into Pick Me Dance Overdrive. The problem is, the woman doesn’t know much about porn, she doesn’t have the stomach to go into the “adult” store to get outfits and “toys”, so she instead gets some “tasteful” lingerie from a bridal shop. She starts seducing her husband in odd places, at odd times, and doing things she didn’t enjoy, just to show him she could be as “playful” as his new playmate, even better! She thought that since she was the wife, and since she had a new baby, that he would feel more invested in her, and now that she was giving him the proper attention, he would tell OW to go away and leave him alone, that he realized he loved his wife! She danced, and danced and was missing out on sleep and living a life she really never wanted. She was not prepared to be a sex worker, to perform whatever, whenever, solely for her husband’s pleasure. It wasn’t who she was. More importantly, it didn’t work!
Surprise, surprise, she finds her husband’s messages to his love interest of the moment, and finds he hasn’t even mentioned all of her new activities and his participation in them to the OW. He has no intention of changing his plans, and dumping the OW — in fact he still wants to see her as often as possible. It is easier now, because his wife isn’t asking him any pesky questions, just servicing him whenever he is around. What good fortune for him — more cake!!!
As long as we believe we caused the cheater behavior, and we can fix it — this awful scenario will go on and on and on. This is what happens when your minister or counselor tells you to go home and “provide” for your spouse’s needs. Cheaters cheat because they have no character. Nothing you do makes any difference. Don’t accept any blame when you have not done anything wrong. I am not saying that the chump is perfect and has no work to do. The chump needs to work on self esteem, and establishing and enforcing boundaries and all kinds of stuff. But the chump is not the one who drives the cheater to cheat.
A relationship is going to have good times, and bad. Neither partner is perfect. But if character and commitment is there, communication occurs. Problems can be fixed without cheating. If problems can’t be fixed — then divorce. Don’t dance, don’t provide cake that was never on the relationship menu in the first place. Don’t try to become someone else, to please a cheater. They are impossible to please, there is never enough to satisfy them.
Please don’t fall for sappy media drivel like 50 Shades of Ewww! Those disordered people who are stalkers and into control and use violence to dominate and subdue a partner, and who have no concern over the partner’s wishes are NEVER gong to change. They do not understand love, they do not change their preferences, they do not become the perfect partner — no matter how witlessly you follow them and do as they say. Learn to recognize the signs and protect yourself. Learn to translate the BS instead of cutting it into bite size sandwiches, and swallowing it. Saying no to BS doesn’t make you a prude, and you don’t lose out on anything, because you never had anything but your imagination anyway. These disordered dweebs only look out for what benefits and pleases them.
I hope Andy listens and learns!
Great post, Portia. The irony (I think) is that the more desperate the chump is to “save” a marriage–singlehandedly–the less chance there is to save it. We know that there is little chance of entitled narcissist cheaters changing their ways. And even if a cheater is more connected and empathetic than the typical narcissist, desperation moves like Porn Star Dress Up get in the way of the remorse and ground-level changing that cheaters need to do to fix what they’ve broken. I know what it feels to grasp for the words or actions that will snap a cheater back to the days when he “loved” me (or so I thought). But the faster a chump gets to “I’m not working on the marriage until you demonstrate that you get what you did and you will do what it takes to fix it AND support my healing. As CL says, we’re more likely to see a unicorn…
*But the faster a chump gets to “I’m not working on the marriage until you demonstrate that you get what you did and you will do what it takes to fix it AND support my healing,” the better the Chump’s situation in the long run. –*Sorry the end of that sentence got cut off.
Portia, thank you for your well thought out and articulate post. I have cut and pasted it into my recovery journal to remind me when I still get those twinges of what-if. Thanks!!
my UBT translates her letter into…..”I know I made a horrible mistake…….but i forgive you for it. If i am such a good person to forgive you then you should forgive me”
Portia, thank you for this. Just when I start to backslide into “woulda, coulda, shoulda” mode, you remind me that I did nothing to bring on the cheating. My ex could indeed have had a frank conversation with me about why he was unhappy instead of hooking up with Schmoopie.
100 % truth!
OMG … “50 shades of ewww.” That is simply awesome. Well done Portia. 100% spot on. Where is the “like” button.
Cheaters have no character and no moral compass.
Not one word of apology. Amazing.
That was my thought. All she needed to do was say how sorry she was and how foolish she had been. That’s the ONLY thing that should have been in a letter. Instead, there’s all this minimizing bullshit…a bump???? Are you freaking serious!!! The audacity is simply off the charts.
Am I the only one wondering if this is her typical way of expressing herself? I got dizzy from all the nitrous oxide she was spewing
Not a word of apology, and an astounding level of narcissism. I could smell the disorder coming right through my computer screen.
It really is astonishing. She could be talking about any mundane, day to day thing in that letter. There is no indication that she has any understanding of the affect of her behavior and choices on her husband. The goal of the letter seems to be to normalize the cheating into something akin to negotiating household chores. ugh
This letter made me physically sick.
No conscience. No introspect. Completely lacking in self knowledge of her damage.
100% manipulation.
I feel I have to take a shower after reading it.
LOL! OMG! Me too.
She is a dog fucker and hides her dog fucking aka her closet masterbation web chats with a sugary coated letter that was pulled together from the Human Resources of the Department of Transportation. Thing is about Bumps…which she indicates will be present and well flagged is just that…there is a giant fucking yellow sign that says” Bumps” …proceed with caution. Her M.O. is not to use signs but to pave over the damage caused by your car spinning outa control after loosing a tire and smacking into on coming traffic.
What she is hoping is now that you made it out alive after hitting that first bump…that unfortunately the Department failed to flagged is now be forwarned of the other bumps…you have been warned.
How about taking an alternate route…get the fuck off her freeway and take your own road….one finger salute to the dog fucker
I knew a guy once who had a house in a very very nice suburb. All of a sudden, the backyard started to sink and a big hole developed. Seems that the previous owner had an in-ground pool that needed to come out, but he simply dumped dirt in it and planted grass. Eventually, the gaping swimming pool hole reappeared and the guy I knew had to pay the price. Covering stuff up just kicks the problem down the road a few feet.
Dept. of Transportation… for some reason, it made me think of this mighty lady, kind of the opposite of a bullshitter. (eta, she just resigned.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snjcWj8_usY I don’t see her needing a UBT!
My take…….Andy truly is fabulous and we’re lining up for a date! 🙂
Am i wrong or has he already left her? At the beginning he calls her his “then” wife, so im assuming he divorced her. I give her credit, she has her phd in cheaterspeak, non-committal, vague, kind of pointless, and complimentary without fully owning her own crap so it kind of leaves it open for future blame. Kind of like the whole jeff and cheryl scruggs thing where HE had to get over his anger and own his part of why she cheated. Hey andrew was such a good partner that now that theyve had a bump he will make it all better. My guess is she cheated all through their marriage, shes far to manipulative with the language.
Andrew,
Run like the dickens!
The narcissism is strong with this one.
If you need a reality check imagine that she found out about you schtupping a work colleague. I think her We work together would change in a flash. Got a strong feeling only she can do the bumping while you muddle along the road together.
Duhhhhhh, all I can say is “What planet is she on?” because she certainly isn’t on this one. Is she smoking something because it certainly looks like it?
Run, Andy run! – this person is several sandwiches short of a picnic.
That gross-out letter could have been written by my ex-wife. If I could sift trough everything she has said to me since I uncovered her affair three years ago, there would not be a single “I’m sorry” hidden anywhere.
Is there a secret narcissist society where they have establish universal codes of conduct and process? I think they all have secret rings and meet annually in Las Vegas, but then again that would imply that they would all have to listen and cooperate with each other in order to pull that off. Maybe not.
If they’re sorry, they’re sorry we accused them or we found out or we can’t stop being bitter bunnies.
SPOT ON, LAJ!!! A very concise summation of what they are ‘sorry’ about.
Chumpion…..that would definitely be too much to handle in Vegas. Instead, I’m sure it’s a mega orgy fest!
I’m confused. Which is ‘the bump’? The sex tapes and masturbation? The Facebook-ing fueling her emotional affair? Or the “I love you” exchanges with the OM?
The first step of addressing a problem or problems is correctly identifying the problem. She is not even in the same galaxy of identifying her problems. Sorry, Andrew. And she seems to lack true empathy for you…another bad sign.
well said DM
Oh DM! But she gave him all the ‘fluffy’ stuff……are you sure it’s a bad sign? 😉
Interesting . . . this use of the word “bump”. On D-day my cheater said something like “this is just a bad bump and we’ll get over it and we’ll be better than ever”. I said “no, we won’t”. The word “bump” must be in the cheater dictionary of minimizing.
For sure. Mine said exactly the same thing. His affair was a “bump in the road.” Sociopaths speak in cliches is my theory.
Mine called his gay cheating, affairs with married women, orgies and threesomes “a sordid phase.” Pretty long phase, it lasted the entire 20 years of our marriage.
Mine kept calling it- Fucked-up Times.
Then he blamed that on his parents, and brother dying! How rude, and ridiculous! Their deaths did not make me go take a shower with, or fuck any of the neighbors!
I guess we deal with tragedy very differently, Jeeeze.
Brings a whole new meaning to the word “sordid”! LOL!
If that’s your ex’s “sordid phase”, my ex could claim he had an “unfortunate blip” cause he only had 1 affair partner for 1 year. (Although he did end up marrying her)
My XW had” relationships where the chemistry became sexualized”. What a fucked narcissists idiot.
Arnold….aren’t they all!!!
Awww, come on, Glad! give him credit–at least he qualified it as sordid–lol.
Or are just saying the line the demons are feeding them…
Run Andrew run! I’m no expert being 50 days a chump…. But I was given the confession of sexting and pics etc…. She was so happy God allowed her to confess this sin so we could move forward!! Me being chumpie accepted this. One month later…. Two days after we started a marriage class at church… I was at a ball game with male friend she was at hotel also with a male friend. I believe due to logistics it had only been pics etc…. But first opportunity that came up…. She was banging the headboard!!!! My wife could have wrote that letter!!! Weird the similarities cheaters use!!! Now this sucks but I can’t see ever being able to live with someone who can manipulate and abuse the one they supposedly love the most…. Special kind of person to do this!
“I look forward to getting past this bump.”
I think that’s what Suge Knight said in court last week:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/suge-knight-pleads-not-guilty-to-murder-in-hit-and-run-case/
Two things come through for me in this letter:
1. It has a high level of condescension. She writes to him as if he is a child and she needs to carefully spell out for him what to think about all this.
2. It reeks of desperation. She NEEDS him to buy what she is trying a little too hard to sell.
The whole vibe of this letter is creepy. If I were in line behind this woman at Starbucks, I would subtly put space between her and me. Because something would really seem off about her. Her crazy is showing.
That’s an interesting take–condescension, and I agree with you. I don’t know if she is a narcissist, but I do believe that cheating is narcissistic behavior. So of course she believes she is superior to him, and this letter is evidence of her entitlement.
Hooooly Shit! I am ashamed to admit this but I fell for similar diatribe from my Ex.
After our divorce, he said very similar things to me including how much he *loved* me and *would marry me all over again*.
Really?
What was wrong with the first time?
I remember when he said that, all I could think was, “Wow. He really does love me.” All the while ignoring the fact that he divorced me! I didn’t find out about his AP until after our divorce. Months after our divorce, he kept telling me he loved me, all the while he was building a life with OW.
I have no idea why he kept me hanging on except for the sheer pleasure of keeping me hanging on…
Sick.
Vegan, I was wondering about this too. This woman said she would ‘love him forever’ which is very similar to what my cheater said to me too. They must have these go to phrases in the cheater code book under How to Get Your Chump Back in Line.
Also similar to yours, mine said he wanted us to renew our wedding vows. At the time it sounded great but now thanks to CL and CN, I see it for what it really is – cheater speak. The first set of vows didn’t stick so why would the second ones.
We renewed our ‘vows’ about six months before the divorce! The level of betrayal is staggering.
There is no limit to their deception. I still have a hard time understanding how their brains work. No logic can be applied. I go out of my way to be kind and look for the good and appreciate life. Moving past the pain they cause gets easier to manage when you start thinking of how much better it is without the slimy film of bullshit.
Whatever they say, it’s to serve their need of the moment. In this case, the cheater wants to keep Andrew on the hook to avoid divorce, disruption, losing the kids, child support, social repercussions, financial loss, etc. And of course, keeping the chump hooked keeps the door open for kibbles and the deliciousness of pick-me dancing between the chump and the OW. In my case, the cheater didn’t want contact because he had his mother and the MOW to do the dancing and I was too much work. His pursuit of me was based on my high opinion of his skills and the value I put on his friendship, which he was smart enough to know couldn’t be resurrected once his cheating was exposed. It just took me 6 months on this board to figure that out.
LAJ,
My cheater also new that once I saw him for who he really is there would be no more kibbles from me and no pick-me dance either! He also has his MOW and his mother and his two sisters, so he’s pretty set up in the kibbles and cake department for a while….
I also agree that these cheaters say whatever serves their purpose at the time and that it’s not sincere at all and mostly forgotten by them within a matter of minutes of saying it. It used to drive me mad that my stbx would say something to me (whether it was something mean and abusive or something like an agreement to do something) and would literally argue with me a short time later that he’d never said whatever it was!! One time he even admitted that much of the time he just told me what he thought I wanted to hear!
Oh wow! This brings back dark memories. I have memories ( or is that nightmares ?) of getting these types of letters. Full of cheater assumed reconciliation, spreading the blame so “we” we’re the problem, so as to make her cheating one homogenous “issue” that would make our marriage stronger. To this day, over 4 years past Dday, it still stuns me how universally similar, effective and disgustingly horrible these people are.
To put it succinctly:
Dear Andy,
I liked it so much better when I could do whatever I wanted and you would put up with it. Let’s do that.
Signed,
Nightmare XXOO
Totally awesome, Miss S!
That’s about as succinct as it gets Miss Sunshine!
I read this somewhere, ” Love will always act in the best interest of another. It is not self-seeking; rather it is others centered. It’s been said Love is the benefit of another, at the expense of self. Lust is the benefit of self, at the expense of another.” so Andrew’s wife or ex-wife doesn’t love him as she claims, its just a bullshit cheater talk. Like I said before, you cant hurt, cheat, deceive someone you truly love, that’s impossible! These cheaters only love themselves and what benefits them. So Andrew, RUN and never look back!!
Nicolette…I totally agree…this is what I have been saying since DDay ….there is no way you do this to someone you are suppose to love…there is just no way and that is why I don’t understand why anyone would want to stay with someone after they have an affair…I know some people are stuck because of kids or finances…but I just don’t see how or why anyone would even want to make it work with a cheater is beyond me…I don’t care how sorry they are!
somuchhurt, looking at the situation now, I would never want to reconcile with a cheater. But for 3-4 months after DDay, I would have swooned if Jackass had shown up at the door, dripping remorse and hinting at getting back together. Now, my therapist and friends would have done an intervention had I done that, but I got into this relationship with poor boundaries and a “need” to be loved and it took me months of hard work to get the the point where I am now.
LAJ…it was hard for me at first too? I wasn’t sure what to do. But then when I sat down and wrote it out and realized all the shitty things he did it didn’t take long to realize we could never live happily ever after!
Exactly somuchhurt! My cheating ex fucktard tried to tell me ” I have always wanted you and always loved you and always will” while fucking the ugly, homely, butterfaced, yeast factory white trash MOW ho-worker at work in the bathroom (among other places) before coming home to me, with a smiling face, like nothing happened and how much he missed me and couldn’t wait to come home to me all day…15 minutes later he was done fucking her…and I was the “love of his life!” but hey, according to him “he always loved me” while fucking this skank for over 3 1/2 years! and couldn’t get his limpdick up with me since he already got some his at work (secrecy, deceit is exciting don’t ya know) I had found she wasn’t the only one, there were others…NAH he loved himself and he is a POS filth like all cheaters! Mine begged me for another chance, after much gaslighting, denials, half truths, outright lies and tried to tell me that he fucked up, will never do it again, with tears, while he already had some other skank that he has been fucking for 2 years while making these promises and told me, ” I want to start anew, get past this, move on and be happy again. I just want to be happy don’t you????” Fucking IDIOT!!
I don’t believe one nanosecond they are sorry that they cheated, they are ONLY sorry because they got caught! Its that simple!! Now he can be sorry all he wants but without me in his life..They are sorry?? my ass!!
Nicolette, yes, yes, yes!! My stbx too – fucking ho workers in a car in the parking lot at work. His, hers whatever. More than just one ho worker too! A 40+ yo man fucking in a car or bathroom isn’t sexy at all! Its disgusting. Sometimes they would spring for the nearby crappy motel that rents rooms by the hour. But that’s where he booked his prostitutes so he had to be careful not to run into any of them I guess. Its just sickening.
I agree with you 100% – they are only sorry they got caught!
Nicolette…you go girl! I toatally agree again! They are only sorry they got caught…they think we are stupid…mine was acting a whole lot like a unicorn and almost convincing…but I know it is all an act…I wasn’t falling for it and a few weeks ago he proved me right…I caught him in a lie which made the truth come out and there were several lies uncovered….I am so glad I didn’t fall for his crap!
I am so glad I had what the RIC calls a “Vanisher.” He never looked back, except to infrequently spew hatred that neither did I.
I would have really been vulnerable to cake-eating pleas. I got none, and now time and perspective (and Tracy) have made me immune.
I had a nightmare last night that OW left xH for xH’s good friend who, in real life, cycles through wives and GF like I change my socks. (Although he has an Asian fetish, whereas xH has a blonde be-my-mommy fetish, and OW fit the bill.) In my dream, xH came “home,” a sad sausage, and I was nothing but disgusted. That’s progress.
I feel for those of you who fend off the mind-fuck that is kibble begging. It’s why NC is so so so important.
The UBT is a lot of help, though, and amusing as hell!!
Wow, that is unbelievable. She has a potential career as a bodice-ripping romance novelist with gushing sentiments like that. The one thing that really stood out to me, however, was that she never referred to her cheating, other than mentioning hitting some “bumps.” I’m curious — how many chumps here had cheaters who NEVER directly mentioned the cheating in emails, texts, letters after Dday, but minimized it to nothing by calling it “bumps,” “mistakes,” or a similar synonym? My cheating ex never once admitted to his endless cheating directly, other than once or twice saying he “had made mistakes.”
We need a cheater’s thesaurus for all the ways they say “I cheated” without ever using those words.
My cheater called his cheating “a journey ” he had to go on ……hate the word now.
My ex wouldn’t say the words, either. He started, a few months after I kicked him out, with ‘I’m sorry things didn’t work out between us’. When I was incredulous at that, he shifted to ‘I regret having done things that drove you away’. Over the next year or so and under great pressure (he was trying to get me back, and apologizing to the kids as well (once he had abandoned them, then they’d figured out the cheating, they stopped seeing him)) he got as far as ‘I shouldn’t have had a relationship w/Schmoopie’. Of course, there was the justification for that; ‘several conditions contributed to that situation, but I shouldn’t have done it’.
When he got REALLY desperate to get me back (he was miserable, then Schmoopie dumped him), and again under pressure from me to actually say the words, he first said ‘I think that’s obvious’. I mentioned that I had thought it was obvious after his FIRST affair, and it clearly hadn’t been obvious to him, since there was #2. He managed to spit out ‘I shouldn’t have had sex with her’, but he made it clear it made him mad that I actually ‘forced’ him to say that. (And of course, he never did include the REST: I shouldn’t have been so negative and critical and unpleasant to be around; I should have made an effort to make you and the kids happy, as you did for me; I should have learned to control my temper, so I didn’t scare you; I shouldn’t have had the first affair; I not only shouldn’t have slept with Schmoopie, I shouldn’t have had lunch w/her, texted w/her, and told her I loved her, I shouldn’t have used your kicking me out as an opportunity to blame you for everything ….).
My theory is that apologizing, and especially apologizing specifically and explicitly, is like holy water to a vampire. It means accepting responsibility for their choices, and recognizing there can be consequences, as well as admitting they did wrong and are not so amazing. No narc wants ANY of that! So they avoid the words, and if they do say these things, it’s either manipulatively, like my ex (he wanted something, and he thought apologizing might get him that), or it’s forgotten SO soon after they say it, or both!
Karen E – I think you have something there. I’ve never thought about apologies being like “holy water to a vampire” when it comes to narcs. The closest I ever got to any kind of apology over the years for flirtatious behavior was “I’ll try to do better,” but he never did.
That’s because him ‘trying’ means he has an ‘out’ if he doesn’t do it – he can say “Well, at least I tried!!!”
“Do or do not. There is no try.”–Yoda
Therefore, the bottom line regarding apologies is they are not worth the assholes’ breath it takes to expel them…
No, X would never say the words. He “made a mistake” and “it just happened.” He “messed everything up.” I think at one point he said he “couldn’t believe (he) did that.”
Saying what they did aloud makes it real. And they don’t like reality.
let see i remember hearing the he ” made mistakes” and he “fucks everything good up” and how he “got into things he shouldnt have gotten into” (i thought he was talking about drugs but i guess it was he got into her p*ssy) and last but not least how he “cant seem to stop hurting me”
I have UBT envy right now. My first read of her letter triggered my apparently still operative hopium circuit. Ughhh.
However, on a positive not, I recently read a lengthy email from XH and spotted the whole spectrum: narckles, gaslightinging, poor me/i am so important, it’s your falut, etc… I saw it! I felt free!
In XH letter to my dying mother (we were together 27 years, 2 kids, she was devastated by his 4 year adultery…). His letter did not contain one I am sorry I hurt you, your daughter, your grandchildren. It was all about how awful HE felt, how “far he fell”, how HE cannot live with himself.. [Must insert here, we were separated then and he had chosen to continue boinking his MOW at the time the letter]]
My dying mom, who had encouraged me to kick him to the curb, felt badly for him after reading his letter. I told her to re-read it and notice how it was All. About. Him. She said, with astonishment, that she now understood why I was having such a hard time moving on. She had loved and trusted him too. So his Poor Me Letter even pulled sympathy from her – after she had decided he was no good. I now see how his wounded little boy and dark shameful place is the magnet for all the chumps in his life…
I am 3 years post DDAy, 1.5 since divorce, and 5 months since since finding Chump Nation. I like my compassionate chumpy heart. I do not want to waste it on a remorseless cheater – anyone’s.
You know, Chumpette, that’s the purpose of the letter–to keep the hopium addiction going.
This whole thread is so powerful. And your post really shows how hard it is to see the narcissist behind the person we love, whether it is a spouse or someone else in our family.
Exactly… to all of what you said, LAJ.
“No mention of what exactly “it” is, but fill in the blanks, okay Andy? It’s you, the marriage. Whatever “it” is, she can later assert that you assumed the wrong “it.” Vagaries work like that.”
Whoa, this triggered a memory! I actually DID get an apology from my ex a year or so after Dday! He texted me, “I’m sorry about things.” No mention of which “things” specifically made him sorry (and there were so MANY “things” he could have chosen from), but hey, that’s an apology, right? Cheaters love being vague, because they are afraid to show their hand with specifics.
GIO, you just reminded me of one of the craziest cheater statements of all time & made by a very educated and successful man & in front of the Grand Jury no less remember after Bill Clinton is asked if he had any manner of sex with Monica Lewinsky (not exact wording) he replied “It depends of what the definition of the word “is” is. That has to be a classic.
My ex never said he was sorry for a single thing, but he did complain that my crying made him feel awful. I seriously thing he was missing an emotion chip…although he got pretty good at “acting like he cared.”
Lyn,
I bet I was married to his llong lost twin! FRUSTRATING!!
long lost
Lyn, mine ex of 37 years never, ever said sorry for one thing and he certainly never cared about me whatsoever. He completely ignored my tears and would walk around whistling whilst I sobbed. He “acted like he cared” but it always and I mean always ended in sex. When we first separated, I asked him why he couldn’t put his arm around me just to comfort me instead of it always ending in sex. He looked down and shrugged his shoulders like a toddler and never answered. He is definitely missing the emotion chip but with that comes the terrible destruction he has caused to our family and now he is heading overseas to Cambodia to live out his existence with the young ‘ladies’ and leaving our kids here on their own. You see, they don’t speak to me, only their father, so it is a complete and absolute mess.
Mine said ” I am sorry for everything.” oh and ” I never meant for any of it” that’s it! Geez I wonder what he meant?
He meant ‘I want you to know I”m still a great guy. Because I’m sorry in some vague way that takes no actual responsibility, and because i didn’t SET OUT to hurt you (I just did things that I KNEW would hurt you, but hey, it wasn’t intentional!), I’m still a great guy. Right? Right?’
He’s still looking for kibbles!
This went both ways with my Cheaterpants.
I got sooooo much of the “I never meant to hurt you.” “Things should not have ended this way.” bullshit.
But I also got, “I MEANT TO call you, but, well, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to hurt you.” in response to me getting angry that he couldn’t even TEXT ME while off on a weekend with his pals, that I paid for!
I MEANT TO….really…..I mean it…..seriously…..I did. Sort of. Well, I didn’t want to be rude to my friends by excusing myself to oh, you know, THANK the person who paid for my trip, or anything. You didn’t go to the bathroom? Even once? Did they all sleep in the same bed with you so that you just didn’t have the room to move your texting fingers? Were your fingers broken? Did your friends hide your phone?
Um, no. Heh heh. Um…but doesn’t it count that I MEANT TO call you, that I WANTED to call you? Wow, you really are so demanding.
And no, before anybody asks, he wasn’t with OW. He really was with his friends. I’m thinkin’ that makes him an even bigger asshole.
Right you are! I got TWO – count ’em, TWO – “apologies” from my xH:
“I’m sorry for what happened.” Said with no emotion whatsoever.
“I’m so, so sorry!” Said with dramatic flair.
SORRY FOR WHAT? Oh, but I suppose the what doesn’t matter – he said he was sorry, and that should be enough for me.
Whatever. He’s only sorry he lost cake and kibbles.
I swear, if I ever got I “I’m sorry I cheated on you and the kids,” I’d turn it into my ringtone, so I could hear it all day.
IMHO a “bump” is getting the water turned off because you forgot to pay the bill or losing your job……….personally i dont see betraying and cheating your husbands loyalty, faith, integrity, belief and love in you as a “BUMP” it is more of a spiraling bottomless pot hole from hell…..
It sounds as if Andrew decided that running was the best option, as he says this letter is from his “then wife.” Clearly he recognized cheaterspeak as bullshit as soon as he saw it. Way to go, Andrew!!!
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that I think that Ms. Andrew’s-POS-Former-Spouse probably believes all this drivel. Remember that Cheaters use the same cliches, the same playbook. They are also living in fantasy-land, even if they’re not outright delusional.
They have to spew out this stuff because it helps them maintain the illusion that they are not Bad People. Bad People have affairs that violate marriage vows, lie to people they say that they love, miss out on the kids’ concerts/athletic events so they can get five minute blow jobs in the Walmart parking lot, and expose their spouses to STDs.
Cheaters want to see themselves as something other than entitled assholes. As we can see, they have to sling a lot of BS around to cover up the stink of their actions.
Absolutely. In my experience, the truly disordered have two types of lies:
1. They want to manipulate or deceive someone, so they knowingly lie to accomplish that goal.
2. They need to preserve their distorted version of reality where they are a decent person, so they spout all sorts of bullshit that makes them sound good, while implying (or stating outright) that the other person is bad. They believe this shit entirely, because the disordered are always rewriting history into what they want it to be, then living in that alternate reality.
When a disordered person’s lips are moving, s/he is either using #1 or #2 type of lie, so it’s always best to assume that every word they speak is false.
“2. They need to preserve their distorted version of reality where they are a decent person, so they spout all sorts of bullshit that makes them sound good, while implying (or stating outright) that the other person is bad. They believe this shit entirely, because the disordered are always rewriting history into what they want it to be, then living in that alternate reality.”
Dealing with this with another disordered person in my extended family and OMG. It’s so maddening. If one tactic isn’t working, they try another.
My ex has changed tactics; my dumping him, followed by our kids dumping him, followed by Schmoopie dumping him, all sprinkled with my refusals to his many attempts to convince me to ‘try again’ seems to have made him realize he needs new strategies.
So now he tells us he knows he did bad things that hurt people (STILL no actual ownership of what he did). but he regrets it terribly (because it lost him some things he still wanted), and he’s working so hard to be a better person (yeah, a dozen therapy sessions in a year, all while retaining ALL his old behaviours). And he gets FURIOUS when we don’t come running with buckets of fresh kibble, to soothe his poor sausageness, and to recognize what a good person he is now, now that he’s realized and fixed himself.
And I’m 100% sure that he incorporates all this into the image he presents to new women; oh, I done wrong! And I regret it so much! Poor me! And I’ve worked so hard to fix myself! Poor me! And my ex-wife and kids, they’re just too bitter to leave me any space in their lives, no matter how I try! Poor me! I’m such a better person now, but still so sad about losing my kids ….
I’m sure some youngish chump is just melting right now for this poor guy!
Probably a youngish, desperate chump. That seems to be the type my cheater targets. If they feel like they can’t get through life without a man, they are willing to swallow the shit sandwich du jour and not question much.
My disgusting ex goes after married women (mostly coworkers), and listens to their stories, sympathizes with them, pays them extreme attention, tells them what they want to hear, playing the shining knight in armor and tells them how horrible their husbands are, he would never treat them like their husbands blah blah blah until he gets them into bed, he plays the understanding, good guy role really well, but he wont commit to them if they divorce, then he is on to his next target, this way he gets all the kibbles, gets his dick serviced regularly by other men’s wives, at work bathrooms, in cars, parking lots, without spending a dime of his, especially now since I am not around to pay all the bills including his own damn food! The last I heard, he was looking for another meal ticket to mooch off of, missing living the good life and trying to get back with the last OW, the narcissistic white trash town slut. (he once referred to her as a “fat dbag, who is nothing but a fat cow who was always trying to hide her fat under her clothes” He should know..) I am thankful everyday that he is not my problem anymore!
Ugh! Thanks for exposing him. Better to be single than to be someone’s kibbles. What a predator.
Very true, Glad. We’ve all heard the chestnut “I knew you were lying because your lips were moving” but there were THREE instances wherein I knew my XBF was telling me the truth and they were:
1) I’m hungry
2) I’m horny
3) I need to pee
Mine was telling the truth when he said, “I was a twisted person when you met me, Muse, and I’m still a twisted person.”
Mine told me once that I shouldn’t trust him! What a fool I was for laughing at that and assuring him that of course I did.
And when he said, “I’m fucked up” and “I’m an asshole.”
When mine said that, LAJ, it was a ploy for pity (“oh, poor me, I’m fucked up”) to which I eventually figured out to reply, “NO shit! Sherlock!”….and then, according to Crapweasel, I was bitter and vengeful.
Mostly, I’m beginning to be relieved mine was really trying for an exit affair, no matter how many times he says he “messed up the best thing in his life “(Cake!) yadda yadda (somebody to do his laundry!) etc.
We’re so done corresponding…except every once in a while I get a dose of self pity. I’m learning not to respond. It would be like talking to a pet rock.
And he wears this shit as a cloak around him too. What a delusional moron.
I find the letter depressing. She talks like the OW in my case who I unfortunately contacted when I found out. Assured, brazen, like she is in charge and the only “intelligent” person in the mess, who will be “understanding” and “hope you can move on” from the awesomeness that is her in her oh so complicated specialness. No accountability at all. Ugh!
Maybe “bump” is her shorthand for “bumping uglies with whomever I please.”
And saying that they would be prepared for more bumps – that’s downright chilling.
Here’s a reply, (to never send, of course, since NC is the best policy.)
not-Dear Nightmare Ex,
I get it! You like cliches! Here’s one just for you: Actions speak louder than blah blah blah.
Sincerely,
Andrew
Here’s the thing. If you accept the premise that cheating is a game-ender, then it doesn’t matter what Cheater says, or how they say it, or how many times they say it. The trust is gone. Game over.
Trying to analyse what a deluded person says is like trying to make sense of the ravings of an insane person. Just put them in the padded room, close the door, and walk away to a better life.
“We work so well together that we have never really needed to work on our togetherness. we will be better in the future, and it will be a long one.”
Sorry that you had to deal with that, Andrew.
My ex did the same. She said that our marriage has been so “easy” up until the affair. We’d never had to deal with major problems because we worked so well together. So, now that we do have to work through something, I’d damn better try harder. I’d better “not give up now that we’re facing our first problem,” because she wanted to spend her life with me.
I *hated* my wife’s regular accusations that I wasn’t trying, or that I was giving up too soon, or that I was somehow “weak” because I wasn’t willing to fight for someone who can’t keep her legs closed with men other than her husband. You know–because that behavior made her a prize! For a few weeks, I fought her on it, making my case, and trying to “show her” that cheating is not a simple “problem” that we have to work out.
But after those few weeks, I heard how she twisted around what I said–getting her friends, family, and our marriage counselor to agree with her. So I gave up trying to “get her to see” anything. (As we know from Dr. George Simon, they *see* just fine. They just don’t *agree.*) Step 1 in addressing cheating is to stop the cheating. Without it, there is no Step 2. And the only person who can take Step 1 is the cheater. Saying that the chump “isn’t dealing with problems” is blame-shifting manipulation. I lost respect for anyone who engaged with that blame-shifting.
I think that we need to develop a blueprint for the UBT… CL has it internally but for those of us who do not, we need to see how the gears and cogs of this thing work so we can make our own fully portable version.
Because as sharedmarriage says, “this chump is waiting until the UBT is fully installed in her chumpy brain!” I too am not going near anyone romantically or much of anyone else until I trust my UBT is up and fully operational. It is integral to fixing your picker issues.
We also need to give ourselves permission to use our own common sense. ‘It’s okay not to spackle, calling bullshit on bullshit is not rude, it is part of being a good person… not just a person who is keeping themselves safe but a good person.
So what would you include as the framework for your UBT? What are the cogs, gears, screws etc. I would really like to know… I have been bullied, gaslighted, trickle truthed, projected, triangulated and abused, just like the rest of you.
I think my framework might be… an assessment of the other person’s need to control
Then what are the facts, just the facts m’am of the communication at hand.
What are my values?
I get lost after that. I might even get lost at my values and person’s need to control. See… no men for me.
Good points, KarenE. I think the first thing for me is the actual language (being someone who studies and teaches language use). The subjects and verbs of the sentences. The choice of active sentences (I betrayed your trust) vs. Trust was broken). The use of indefinite pronouns (it, this, that, someone, something, anything, nothing) vs. specificity. The use of cliches or metaphors that minimize or shift the blame. The use of vague words like “mistake” or “problems” or “issues.”
In terms of content, I look for what is absent: no admission of specific wrongdoings, no reference to the chump’s experience, no awareness of damage to kids or the larger family. (See above, the cheater reference to the “fabulous kids,” but nothing about how the cheating blew up their lives.) The content of the type of letter above feels like the written version of love-bombing. It will sound good on the surface but have no substance.
In the case of Jackass-style communications, there will be denials that start with “I would never…” or “I can’t believe you would accuse me…” or “I don’t think I’ve done anything wrong…” or “I didn’t mean to…”. And there will be blame shifting: “Because you accused me or can’t forgive or invaded my privacy….”
A real apology will admit the specific wrongdoings, take full responsibility for them, acknowledge the damage, and set out a process of making amends and healing. And quite likely, it won’t come in a Hallmark card or a FB message but in a series of conversations in which there are two voices, not one. There will be reciprocity and a demonstration that the chump has the right to end things based on the cheating, and that any shot at reconciliation is something to be humbly, profoundly grateful for.
The UBT is a great concept. What CL does is tell us, through this funny, snarky, and deeply truthful exercise, that we need to learn to look closely at cheater communication because the goal of that communication is usually manipulation, blame shifting, and gaslighting.
ring, you make a good point! My framework is; does this person actually listen, and address the things I’m saying, if we disagree about something (as I do for them)? Or do I end up feeling confused and doubting my own reasoning? The internal confusion is a BIG sign that they’re using manipulative crap to get away from a real conversation.
Andrew, that is absolutely disgusting, I feel sick to my stomach just reading it. It’s literally slicing open the mind of a sociopath and seeing the sick black ooze come pouring out. My only surprise at times is I thought these guys and gals were supposed to be especially smart, not so especially dumb.
RUN! And don’t look back.
Cheaters are not intelligent or smart. They have a character disorder that prevents then from feeling empathy and having the ability to love. Intelligent people care about others and we all manipulate but not to hurt others.
Actually we don’t all manipulate, Donna, and I bet you don’t either. Manipulation is when you make it look like you’re trying to accomplish one thing, while actually having a different goal. Manipulation involves deceiving the other, to get what you want. It’s about the intention, not the results. So a teenager who has a fight with their parents, cries because they’re upset, and then feels calmer, but keeps crying very obviously for hours so that their parents feel bad and give in on whatever the dispute was about, is manipulative. When I meet someone attractive and propose we have casual sex, and they agree to it, nobody is being manipulated or used. When I meet someone attractive and pretend I want a relationship with them, to get into their pants and then disappear, I am manipulating. And when I give the minimum apology possible, without feeling any real remorse or responsibility, in order to look like a Good Person or get my ex to ‘try again’, that’s manipulation. When I say things that make my kids feel guilty because they actually did something they should feel guilty about, and I want them to recognize that, no manipulation. When I say things that make my kids feel guilty in order to get them to do what I want …
When we are clear about what we want or feel or believe, that’s a healthy way to communicate with others. But the narcs, it’s ALWAYS about what they want, about ‘winning’, and about saying anything at all, to get what they want. And they learn some remarkably effective ways to do that!
I stand corrected. I guess I’ve been listening to dr Phil too much. I don’t manipulate to win. It is abusive. Thank you.
First rule of therapy, do NOT listen to Dr. Phil – it’s like one step up from learning how to have relationships from the Jerry Springer show. Just my opinion…
I agree Dr. Phil is not the best source for any kind of in-depth information; however (at least on his website), he does pay attention to the research (I use his page in a class for a synopsis of the spanking debate research). He’s also on the right side about infidelity being on the cheater. I can’t think of a single thing that Jerry Springer has contributed to healthy psychological development.
The sad thing, pathetic thing….is these cheaters actually believe they are being sincere and enlightened.
Really…..fucking around was just a bump in your marriage.
The thing is, getting laid is easy. Anyone can get laid, there is always someone who is willing to give you a “bump”. Short, tall, one eyed, missing a limb, unibrowed, hairy back, puffer dude with asthma, comb over guy, lady with a limp…can get “bumped”, there’s always a bumpster looking to give you a bump.
A normal human, would say ewwwww…but a narcissist is all about the high they get from someone who is wanting to bump them , they actually believe they are so awesome, everyone wants to bump them, they are bumpalicious, they can’t help it that they ooze bumpiness.
Reading between the lines, they’re saying yiu won the prize of their true bumpness, you are the lucky one who gets their bumpiness full time, not part time with the “other”….yeah your are soooo lucky to be the recipient of full time love bumpiness.
When my ex finally admitted to having sex with other guys, he actually told me that many of the guys were old, or ugly or very unappealing to him, but he fucked them anyway. Or as Andy’s ex wife would say, they “bumped.”
LOL Glad.