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UBT: I Wish You Were Still Nice

NiceThe Universal Bullshit Translator gets a lot of “It’s not what I did, it’s how you reacted” pitchforked into it. Blameshifting lays around in piles. Why can’t you chumps be NICER? The cheaters miss their kibbles!

In today’s UBT submission, Lori writes:

He was on his way out last year and did a complete 180, I figure the “supply” dumped him but here’s his response…….

“It was because you became nice. I wish you were still like that. We wouldn’t be in this situation. But then it became worse and you became pissed at me. About everything under the sun again! I wish you could be that Lori. I would still be there. I don’t know why you have to, then and now, be such an angry person. I was waiting for that Lori to come back. She never did. I’m sorry. No matter what you say or think. I’m sorry.”

Roughly translated: “Lori, I’m sorry you’re such an asshole.”

It was because you became nice.

“Became” — implying you weren’t nice before. You transmogrified into a kinder, gentler you and stopped being a raging Gorgon. Thank you.

I wish you were still like that.

Yes, it had to end because you could not sustain nice. Why oh why did you ever cease kibble production? It’s a mystery to him.

We wouldn’t be in this situation.

What “situation” is that? His cheating and lying? He can’t spell that out, because to do so might confer responsibility upon him, so we’ll just use the euphemism that the current unpleasantness is a “situation.” He’s like that douche from Jersey Shore. Mike “The Situation” Cheaterpants.

But then it became worse and you became pissed at me.

Oh Lori, you just can’t stay nice, can you? Being a terrible person is just congenital, un-niceness just laying below the surface, ready to rear its ugly head. Without provocation!

About everything under the sun again!

Everything! Nothing pleases you! He can’t do ANYTHING right! It’s just you and your unreasonable meanness. You’re a grinch! You hate Christmas! And kittens! And cupcakes! You’re pissed at everything under the sun! He’s under the sun, ergo you’re pissed at him. It’s not like he DID something. There’s no reason to this pissed-offedness. It’s Just Who You Are.

I wish you could be that Lori.

I mean the “nice Lori.” The person who fed me kibbles and believed my lies and didn’t stand in the way of my cheating. I miss her. Chumps are so nice. Why can’t you be my chump again?

I would still be there.

It’s all your fault it ended.

I don’t know why you have to, then and now, be such an angry person.

The Problem Is Not What I Did, It’s Your Reaction To It.

I was waiting for that Lori to come back. She never did.

I am a sad sausage. I sit by my window and pine for Nice Lori. Sometimes I think I hear her coming, and I paw at the door and wet myself from the excitement… but it was just the mailman. There’s nothing in my mailbox but cobwebs and loneliness. And bills I wish you would pay. And Pottery Barn catalogs addressed to you. Your name taunts me. I remember the Nice Lori and I cry.

Maybe she’ll come back? I’m steadfast and true — unlike Lori. I wait and I wait and I wait. My pants are soiled. But she Never Returns. (sob)

She abandoned me, all because she couldn’t be Nice.

I’m sorry. No matter what you say or think. I’m sorry.

I’ve done nothing whatsoever to apologize for. I can’t say what exactly I did that I’m sorry about.

I’m sorry you’re  an asshole.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • CL, you got this one right! Sigh…I miss the old person who ignored my lying, cheating, abuse and let me still screw my whore while you worked, financially supported the family, raised our children and volunteered at our church. That wife was always there, just got tired of your crap!

    BTW, the former monster-in-law told me, “If you were nicer to him, none of this would not have happened.” Wow! Making excuses for HIS bad behavior and YOUR bad parenting!

    • Ha ha… mine’s Narc Mother said “could you have done anything that would have made him want to go elsewhere for sex?”.

      • My late MIL said to me just before I married the ex who she always stated only married me because I reminded him of her, “once you are married, he can do what he likes with you”. I never really understood what she meant but there was a red flag waving right there that I ignored.

        • Wow, that’s a chilling remark but how in the world would a young woman understand what that meant?

          • Yes, chilling indeed LaJ. I was so green I had no idea what she meant. I do now!! This statement from a female who was married for 44 years but did not love her husband. She only married him because she was jilted at the alter. She did say to me and she never should have but in the 15 years before they adopted my ex husband, that she had only had sex 5 times with my late FIL. It was a marriage of convenience to save face. She was jilted and he was a closet gay. I came from a crappy family but is it any wonder the ex who was an only child grew up to be who and what he is.

        • My goodness, Maree….that IS chilling! My XMIL told me once that he was “always different than her other kids” (she had 6). It was so vague that I didn’t really get it but now I do!

          However, I call her bluff there because he’s got at least 2 brothers that are disordered and perhaps 1 sister. Yikes!!! It’s in the genetics AND the water!!!

          • Same here… she had 3, all boys and they are ALL screwed up and she makes excuses for everything that they or ANY of their kids do. “That’s just what kids do.” NO! NO it ISN’T!! That’s just what kids DO when you live in a BUBBLE and don’t TEACH them anything!! Like responsibility or consequences for their actions…. she was always too absorbed in her own life… her hubby was a verbally abusive drunk and she stayed and didn’t do her job as a mother because she liked being “comfortable” with his money. Totally oblivious… she’s useless.

      • My version went like this. ( Cheater saying to me:

        You’re an idiot if you call being with someone for two minutes standing up in a parking lot sex?

        ‘ Do you think being w someone in the back of my van is sex? No that’s just a stupid two minutes of I don’t know what.

        Sex is what I do with you. How I make love to you. Are you so stupid you don’t get that’s different than what happens with them ?

        I guess I am that stupid. I wasted many years w him

          • He actually admitted to having sex with all of those women- mostly bc one called me and had proof

            Moron was trying to console me in his own pathetic way by saying it wasn’t ‘real monkey love sex and only being w someone ‘ bc it happened in a parking lot or in a ca.

            Where as mine was ‘the real sex’.

            You’re right. UBT

            • Cute, Chris W.! ROTFLMRO!! Could be!!!…….

              Seriously, now, for chumpdujour…..

              THAT is actually a new one on me….Have not heard that particular sequence of words to describe whatever it is the cheaters do…..

              As byebye said, aren’t you the ‘lucky one’!!

              By the way…….”Stupid” as used in the Bible means ‘morally insensible’. All us chumps are moral, loving and kind; therefore, the complete opposite of ‘stupid’!
              STBEx was projecting, me thinks?

              They are so ‘genitalia-centric’. So unbelievably sick that actual human connection is so far off their ‘radar’ that they have to depend on their ‘parts’ to interact with another human, as their ‘heart’ and vulnerability are totally non-existent.

              ForgeOn, authentic ones……

              • Thank you all

                Yes just like the 5 second rule w food. But years later it still bugs me that he couldn’t/wouldn’t acknowledge that it was a betrayal

                he never discussed the weeks of setting these conquests up? Once he hit his target, he dumped them.

                But they didn’t count.

                And then the Greek chorus of ‘so what? Everyone cheats. Get over it’.

        • ^^ This. The Two-Minute Defense. Mine tried to reassure me that he couldn’t possibly be having an affair because he spent SO MUCH time surfing porn, and there’s only so many hours in a day.

          • Narcs and porn go together like cookies and milk. After DDay he informed me in front of our adult son that a message appeared on the computer regarding accessing child porn and he had to pay money to have it removed. Later fucktard said he had to look at porn because of me. But he didn’t need it anymore

        • Two whole minutes? What was his secret? Maybe he could pass it on to ex asshat in my life who was lucky to make it for 30 seconds (seriously)

      • Regarding memorable things in-laws said post D-Day, my FIL said something like, ‘Why can’t you both get along? You both have such fine qualities.’ I admitted that my STBX has some talent and experience in his career and keeps himself physically fit (if you disregard the occasional smoking and illegal drug use), narc that he is. (I can’t help but wonder what my religious marriage counselor FIL would think of his son repeatedly using his grandchildren’s money to pay for sex, repeatedly commit heinous acts of perjury, and financially wipe out his family.) I have a few talents–and decent character. In terms of character, one of these things (people) is not like the other.

        • Before D-Day, my FIL said to my STBX, “You never was no good!” He hated his child who was a full blown sociopath. I never understood why that was at the time, but it all became clear later.

    • Oh boy!!!! I had the MIL judgment, too!
      I got: “your words really hurt…you say hurtful things to him”.

      Well, for one, he’s projecting because he spends many a night belittling me in a drunken stupor when he says he’s titslly sober AND seems it…odd phenomenon he had, the ability to get hammered but still seem sober. Anyone else’s ex have that trick?
      And two, what I’ve said isn’t hurtful….its truth. He is mean, he is a liar and he isn’t treating our marriage with respect, among others.

      The truth, to these idiots, is always such a buzzkill; why would you ruin my fun fantasy with your reality?

      I guess it’s my fault again. Lol.

        • There is an actual word titsilly. I means uneven boobs… but I think we should coin a new word as a euphamism for cheating or going titsilly. Most appropriately used by your Swiss friends. Goes like this
          Swiss husband: God did you hear about Dave, he’s gone all titsilly.
          Swiss wife: I know I heard, and did you hear that Mary is mad as hell about it,
          SH: Just a little titsilliness, so much drama
          SW: Thank god our relationship is so strong… but her reaction is a bit over the top for a little titsilliness.
          SH: Hey I have got to be at the gym in like two minutes, I am going to be late… what did you do with my tiny little briefs SW. I told you I wanted them clean today by 2 PM. Where the hell are they… Oh WTF, you can’t do anything right… I am late, Misty my trainer is not going to be happy.

          • And Misty will be particularly unhappy that he doesn’t have his tiny little briefs! Sheesh, some wives …

        • @TheBetterJamie:

          Titsilly (tit-sil-ee) noun Eng. slang: Crazy about women’s breasts, often to the point of obsession. Usually applied to adolescent heterosexual males, but often to (supposedly) fully mature men.

      • Wow!! Yes!! He was drunk for the 1st four years and I have NEVER met anyone who could drink that much and still be somewhat functional… it was baffling!! He quit drinking four years ago but never went for any treatment so the addiction reared it’s ugly head in the form of the new “passion” (aka: addiction) which is “bodybuilding”. He had done this previously but had been out of it for several years when i met him. I wish I had a dollar for every time I walked into our bedroom and caught him admiring himself in the mirror… I could support myself for the next 5 years.

        Same thing with me…. “everything you say is MEAN… you just like to HURT me!” He is completely self absorbed and delusional. A month into “this” emotional affair I got my hands on a 2nd cell phone he purchased (upped his game once I caught on and called HER hubby) and I was dumbfounded when I read the text messages… he is 46 and SHE is 40 and they were talking to each other like they were 13 years old, it was almost comical.

        What about financially?? He worked and controlled ALL the money, I stayed home with our son. He NEVER paid anything on time… I was always wondering WHERE it all went. I won’t even get into it all on here… but financially… he has ruined himself and he just “pretends” it all doesn’t exist….. it’s crazy!!

        • NCStevie, I believe we must’ve married brothers. My gosh the things you’re saying are familiar!

          My STBX was able to consume SO much alcohol and seem like he never had a drink. I guess that clues me in to the amazing ability to lie & fake…he’s so well trained that he can even override alcohol!
          I can’t even imagine how many times when we were in our early 20’s and dating that he drive us home hammered & I was clueless! Scary to think!

          Now my ex was no bodybuilder but his obsession after quitting smoking was home projects that he had no ability to do and no knowledge on how to perform. So fast forward 5 years later and I’m living in a house full of half-assed & half finished projects. Some day I’ll get to completing them all! Haha.

          And finally….ohhhh the finances….so, sad admittance here but I’ll own my naïveté; we each had separate accounts from before marriage & a joint account that half our income was to go in. One guess who’s money never went in! Yep, he only put money in when there was a bill due and he put the exact amount needed. Eventually the majority of mine went in there because we needed it. So yeah, I had NO CLUE where his money went but I can say that since he left a year-ish ago, my money doesn’t evaporate like it used to. He’s overwhelmingly in debt, I still get the calls and letters, but he claims that he’s “in the best place he’s been in years”!

          I guess mooching off your parents & your college girlfriend, rarely seeing your daughter, having no real goals or purposes in life and being an all around failure feels like home to him? No responsibility….makes sense.

          • Yes! The ability to consume massive amounts of alcohol and function normally was a hallmark of my XBF. He’d been an alcoholic since his mid 20’s and I met him at age 54. It took me a while to realize he was drinking when I actually had NO idea he was–practically from sunup to bedtime but skillfully hidden from me.

            Alcohol accounted for many visits by law enforcement to my home.

            The final time he was in my home, he ended up being removed by EMS. I came home from errands mid afternoon and he was blotto. Unlike I had ever seen him or anyone in my entire life.
            He asked to talk to his dead mother.

            I followed him through my home, recording him on my phone. He walked into my office and removed his shirt and in contrast to his normally fastidious care of his clothing, he dropped it gently on the floor, Then he noticed it and bent over to pick it up. TIMMMMMMBERRRRR! He fell face first onto my tile floor. It sounded like a cantaloupe being hit with a bat.

            Blood was immediately seeping out of his head as he lay there motionless, knocked out but breathing. Hours later the ER Dr called me and asked if I was going to come pick him up. I told him “NO WAY, he is not my responsibility.” Dr told me he was still drunk, cops would come get him and take him to jail. “Fine with me”.

            Dr then got chatty. He told me XBF’s blood alcohol level was .39. (At .40, most people are dead). This was a new record in his ER, he had never seen a BAC that high the entire time he’d been in practice. Then told me he recognized the XBF–he had PREVIOUSLY held the record from another ER visit but this one eclipsed it.

            Very conveniently, this incident coincided with my having had him evicted. I had no duty to allow him into my home, so when he showed up at my doorstep, I refused.

            • Yikes!!!! What is with all that alcohol consumption?! My ex always used it to “escape” when at home or to bring out what I like to call “The Party Guy” at social events.

              He always made it seem like I was such a stiff because I don’t really drink. Clearly it was just me being lame, as usual. 🙂

              • Ha ha…. I call mine’s alter ego (drunk version) “Good Time Charlie” because he had no self control, once he started drinking he was ALL in. I never drank much either (still don’t), I can enjoy a drink or two and enjoy myself without the need to get blind…. hmmmmm…. yes… I suppose that verifies that we are in fact “lame”. I’ll take it 😀

        • NCStevie-Mine didn’t drink but oh, the bodybuilding and looking himself in the mirror all the time and wearing tight shirts. This is HUGE screaming red flag for narcissim. It just screams-ME ME ME….Look at ME!!

          Obviously, I had failed narcissism 101
          (Palm to forehead)

          Of course, stbx HAD to cheat on me cuz dont cha know, I had lost my trophy wife looks/luster

          • Oh.. CC… he quit the drink 4 years ago. I think the drinking started when he was forced to quit bodybuilding due to an injury… he was drinking when I met him (NO.. I had no idea how much, he hid that until we were all in) and he finally quit when I announced I was leaving. I didn’t ask/tell him to quit, just announced that I wasn’t raising my son around it. He QUIT. Just like that… he decided… and he quit. WTF? I have NEVER met anyone else in my life that has the will power to “quit” anything like this man. Did the same thing with cigarettes. Quit. Oh.. and coincidentally and most recently “us”. Quit. Had he been bodybuilding when I met him… I might have had my Narc Detector on or at least my Bullshit Meter. Same here…. I guess I’m no longer “up to par” the OW is a “physique” competitor and is one notch below a female bodybuilder (looks like a very muscular man with boobs, kinda). Funny thing is he “claims” that that level of competing women, while he respects their hard work, is a little “too” muscular for him…. yet here we are and she isn’t the first (found that out after the fact). Funny thing is… he was (or seemed) totally different the two years between the drinking and starting up training again. The selfishness has always been there…. but MAN that being in LOVE with their own reflection is SO pathetic, it is SUCH a turn off!!

    • In the beginning of our relationship, my ex used to tell me I reminded him of his mom (it never felt right to me) and when he left me he said it was because he did not want us to end up like his parents: unhappy. My ex-MIL told me when ex left me (pregnant and kids) the problem was he missed all my attention once we started having kids (we were young and waited 5 yrs to start having children)…then, after he left and once he was willing to take my offer for reconciliation therapy, she insinuated to me maybe I was being too available as he was taking me for granted…and he didn’t mean all his threats, i just had to stop fighting with him…and after he remarried only hours after our divorce and his family had “liked” his wedding pictures online, she excused them by saying “well, they have to support their brother”…all this comes from a woman who stayed with his alcoholic husband (10 yrs her senior/college profesor) even after discovering he had two kids! And kept it all secret….now, I’m thinking she is the real narc…although people tell me it’s not her fault and “blood is thicker than water” and cannot give him her back, I feel better telling them as long as they accept the OW they don’t deserve a relationship with me…I might have my own FOO issues but shouldn’t take anyone’s abuse…so good riddance! Plus I’m seeing a pattern, my ex OW was a subordinate as well and he told me unlike me she changes everything he doesn’t like…why do I have to be so difficult?!

      • Ha ha. Sounds familiar, Plain Chump. My ex criticized me for refusing to eat meat (I’ve been a vegetarian since I was 12, long before I knew him). Turns out the OW was totally willing to forego her dietary preferences to please him.

        He also bragged that she would *beg* to see him, and complained that I never begged. Apparently I emasculated him by refraining from begging.

        I am proud to say that I still eat what I prefer and I never begged him choose me. 🙂

      • PlainChump,
        What a bad mother! Yuck. I wish she had raised a son and not an entitled Wolverine.
        Monster-in-law tried to fix my marriage by trash talking me to everyone! And gloating on HER golden child… And her one-on-one advice to me was so messed up… I cannot repeat it. She is following her son to hell.
        On a sick note, X was so proud of how bosomy his mother is. I should have run the first time he bragged about the size of his mother’s chest.

          • B-) His Mom would giggle about it. I was too dumbfounded to speak.
            [please, if your son wants to marry and still thinks Mom’s teats are his treats, you effed up bad]… [and the poor bride is screwed]
            Nuff said?

    • Yeah, and I got the sad puppy face, “Well the OW-whore was so nice and admiring of me, whereas you are often aggressive to me.”

      • My cheater ex said that my anger made him anxious, while being with OW was as soothing as walking in the gentle rain. Don’t you know – he puts in a long day at work and doesn’t like coming home to the bitter shrew – he’d much rather long forward to a languid evening with his new soulmate

  • OMW!! I swear these cheating fuckwits has the same, EXACT handbook! My cheater said almost exactly the same things, saying things like “I wish we could go back to how things use to be, I miss –US– but you are always so angry, why do you have to be so angry? Why cant we at least stay friends?”. Idiot! Yep, the reason we are no longer together is ALL my fault, according to him and his family, not because what he did but my reaction to it. Well, the way I look at it, they can all go fuck themselves! all of them!!

    • Yup, near the end, my ex-wife complained to our MC that “he won’t even hug me when I want a hug.”

      I was so mean to her! How cruel!

      • Oh now JC, how dare you be so cruel as to not give her a hug in HER time of need?!? How dare you have this negative reaction towards her?!? Bad…just bad on your part!

        My exH told me I should comfort (hug, sex, kiss) him in HIS time of need, bc you know…his low-self esteem led him to cheat on me.

        They’re called consequences, lovelies…even if it’s just a hug, or comfort. It boils down to KIBBLES!

        THE NERVE…arghhh!!!

        • TodoVa, I’ve heard the “low self esteem” argument from the therapist-reconciliation-complex…and find it lacking. If anything, cheaters have too *much* self-esteem, not too little.

          It’s all a game to keep you trying. My ex also said that we didn’t have enough sex (which frankly, we didn’t, although that’s no excuse to cheat). So, I desperately had more sex with her and hit on her at opportune moments…trying not to wonder when she was last with Mr. Amazing. I cringe at myself now, thinking about how I was having sex with my wife mere days after she did so with another man. What a chump I was!

          Two weeks later, I heard my wife complaining to her sister about me. “He won’t keep his hands off me. I mean, it’s nice that he’s trying now, but he needs to give it a rest.”

          The point? As usual, the point is that whatever excuse the cheater says, it’s just a red herring. It distracts. It takes up time. And–in the case of hugs, sex, and kisses–it provides them with kibbles.

          But supplying these things doesn’t stop the cheating. Because the absence of it didn’t start the cheating.

          • Yeah, JC. What was WRONG with you, too little sex, too much sex. Why were you not a mind reader? Mine “made love ” to me after I’d worked a ten hour day and he came home from a fuckfest with her – at least once. He says we were better, we “made love” and had an amazing emotional connection (bloody thing is, we actually did for 25 years!) whereas she was just sex. So bad he had to keep practising for fifteen months. Poor sausage. So worth it.

            • That’s terrible.

              The “just sex” argument is one of the worst I’ve ever heard. If it’s “just sex,” then it’s not important, right? Then cheaters don’t need it that badly. So…if they don’t need it that badly, why are they cheating again?

              And the circular argument goes ’round and ’round.

              • It’s that vicious circle…horrid, just horrid.

                They cheat bc they want to, because they are selfish, self centered POSs or because, “I made it say for him to cheat.” That’s one of the lines I got. Urghhhh…that still stings 🙁

          • JC: absolutely correct…it’s too much self-esteem. Its a line they use…just pure BS, in my opinion. My exH is a VP in marketing/promotions/sales. Enough said :/

            Like you, I tried everything in the book (or his book, more likely) to please him. Yes, more kibbles and then some. After two ddays and going through false R, finding myself asking him to respect me after just making love (I know, TMI), but seriously, after asking him to respect me after that…I heard my words and just felt sick. Sick to my stomach having to ask for respect when I should have gotten that all along.

            No amount of kibbles was EVER going to be enough for him. Not then, not now and not ever.

    • Urgh – it’s the same bloody handbook alright. I had sobbing (hysterically) and ‘I just want our old days back’….fast forward to the next evening – (chillingly calm) you know you never made me want to be a better man, i treat her so much nicer than I ever treated you. And I know I treated you badly, but you just made life so easy for me. ‘You never made me work for anything’….’you were so laid back’….oh, so it was all my fault. Right. Ok then. Bye bye now.

  • Chumps are just People Who Can’t Fake Nice Anymore. We backtalk and call them on their BS, every single time now. Clearly, the problem is that we now acknowledge that their $hittiness is innate, not that they’re good people who do $hitty things. We’re sew meen to have shattered their mirage.

    Selfish-Prick Husband to OW: “My wife is neglecting my needs and doesn’t care. I want to take things slow and get to know you.”

    UBT: “I don’t give a shit about my wife’s needs or concerns and she’s trying to fuck her way into *some* intimacy. I’m not making real sexual advances to you, Darling Whore, because I CAN’T get it up and telling you that my wife jumps on my cock every time there’s so much as a half-chub going would make me look like a big, fat LIAR.”

    Selfish-Prick Husband to Wife, post D-Day: “But I NEVER slept with her!”
    (Truth: He really didn’t… only because I’ve had an incredibly high sex drive for the entire 12 years we’ve been together. He couldn’t have gotten it up for anyone else, being continuously “tapped.” heh.)

    UBT: “I should get credit for not having sex even though I wasn’t ABLE to have sex.”

    • I am sorry but I am not buying it that “he NEVER slept with her” (that’s the exact sentence my cheater said btw and he is a serial cheat) first of all nice choice of words, why would he sleep with her when he can just fuck her? Mine had a hard time getting it up to and it turns out he was fucking other women from day one, day one, thus he had a hard time getting it up and even had to use Viagra and just like you I have an incredibly high sex drive, so I thought, geez he can barely handle me how is he going to handle anyone else? Well the joke was on me!

      • I believe he fucked OTHER people, in the long past, but not her. Truly. When I finally got to talk to her, she was telling me off because “We didn’t even DO anything but kiss that one time and then I felt so guilty! What’s your problem? I have boundaries, you know! I would NEVER CHEAT on my husband.”

        LOL – cheating starts long before the fucking does, ho-worker!

        • Oh boy! The same all story….The first MOW ho-worker and the cheating fuckwit only admitted to kissing once…it was a one time kiss and nothing else happened..then she said “I am married, its not like I go out looking for affairs.” well it turns out they have been fucking for 3 1/2 years, including in her marital bed when her husband was away, my bed when I was overseas for a month, her friends house, at work bathrooms, in cars, parking lots. Cheaters lie, liars cheat…Cheaters will only cop to what you know and minimize…if they admitted to kissing one time believe me it went much further than you think..She was telling you off because she is probably afraid of her husband finding out. Adults don’t meet up, or just kiss one time, they fuck…

          • Don’t worry – he didn’t/doesn’t get credit for not fucking her. As I told him at once – and countless times since – he’s a liar. “I assume you’ve done the absolute worst you could do.”

            I found out about the affair months after it ended. Found the hidden emails and messages, which ended 3 months prior, getting colder and colder (her being utterly dismissive of him) and shockingly rarer (we’re talking 2 brief and platonic emails/month) from exactly the date of The Kiss. In the super-sekrit email account itself. I found it while looking in his regular yahoo email for a new job’s offer letter… but he was still logged in – meaning he was STILL FUCKING CHECKING IT – to the sekrit yahoo email. Poor widdle manny must have been so sad she never wrote him anymore… going on 3 months! lol

            Fucking wasn’t what she wanted; attention and admiration is what she wanted. Mutually, that’s what each of them wanted BUT Husband would have definitely done it. Definitely. (That’s one of the many reasons he doesn’t get “credit” for not fucking her. lol) Ho-worker is the same age as my mother, Chinese and is out of the country about 4 months out of every year , and has an infidelity clause in her pre-nup (married to a surgeon for 20 years so far.) Her husband now knows… but she didn’t FUCK anyone so she’s “safe.” They’ve slept in different beds and rooms, entirely, for over a decade. Her husband doesn’t care about EAs.

            But *I* sure as hell do! heh

      • Sorry, but I don’t believe the no sex thing either. Unfortunately, with a lot of these cheaters they can’t get it up for us & have all kinds of issues, need to take meds, etc. but have no trouble getting busy with random skank hook-up, hooker, massage worker, ho-workers and the like.

        I remember stbx used to listen to this jerk a-hole on the radio named Tom Leykis. He would tell his callers that men don’t need meds to fix their boner issues, they just need some young girl & that would fix everything.

        Guess stbx took him literally.

        • “Sorry, but I don’t believe the no sex thing either. Unfortunately, with a lot of these cheaters they can’t get it up for us & have all kinds of issues, need to take meds, etc. but have no trouble getting busy with random skank hook-up, hooker, massage worker, ho-workers and the like.”

          Amen – that was my ex to a tee. A mail order package of Viagra showed up just days before he moved out – ordered after dday.

          • Hey guys, EAs happen without sex, okay. Yeah sure, most sexual cheats won’t admit to sex at first but some are caught before sex happens and some really do get attached to people who play them and won’t have sex with them, or they convince themselves it’s not cheating if there’s no penetration. Like those Christian “virgins” who suck but don’t fuck! Whether insist’s husband fucked around or not (and I believe her not just because I am obviously a chump, but because I know this happens and looks like she played detective pretty well.) is irrelevant. He was cheating on her either way. Let’s not then call her a super chump.

    • Insist, you’re so right! But I would disagree with Chumps not being able to Fake Nice anymore. I thnk we actually ARE nice, until we can’t anymore. Then we are quiet for a while, figuring things out. Then we start calling them out (and often even that pretty diplomatically), and wow! Do they hate that!!

      My ex says he can’t believe how ‘harsh’ and ‘lacking in compassion’ I am, now that I don’t buy that bullshit he sells, anymore.

  • Love how the cheater doesn’t see how he wasn’t being “nice.” It’s always a double standard with them. The arrogant blindness is astounding with these folks!

    • Arrogant blindness indeed! I get told how he can’t trust me because he thinks I will go and try to vindictively make him look like a fool in front of his friends…apparently that is why he can’t take me out…I’m he mean one for telling people about his overnighters with another woman whom he says he didn’t sleep with.

    • True. After I accused him of not being a nice person, STBX said, “Have you looked at what you’ve said to me? You’re not the nice person!” [“what I said” = the truth about his unfaithful liasons & having betrayed his children as well.]

      • I LOVE how they don’t mind being “shitty” people but they don’t want you “telling” other people that they are shitty lmao. I WARNED mine when we met NOT to cheat on me!! His grievance now is “you talk so much shit on me to other people”… UBT: “you are telling people TRUTHS that I don’t want exposed: that I cheated on you, abandoned you & my son and I’m not paying the bills and am just an all around shitty person!”

        • Yes, NCStevie!! Mine keeps telling me “We just need to tell other people we grew apart.” I’ll tell them whatever I want–if I say we grew apart, it was because of the 3rd and 4th…and possibly 5th, 6th,…. people in our marriage.

    • Oh DM don’t you get it? We were never supposed to know, so you know, it’s not ‘technically’ being mean…

      I was told flat out at one point – ‘I knew if you found out it would destroy you. That you might even hurt yourself. But you were never supposed to find out.’ This was after I had been turning inside out for months trying to figure out what was wrong, even asking to her face if there was someone else. Knowing I was going through this, she lied (of course) and continued the affair…

      I still get so angry at the whole thing…

      • Jobin: I remember your letter to Tracy from a while ago. Just to warn you–the anger gets worse. As your positive feelings for cheater pants fall away, and the cold hard reality of what they did to us & the long-standing deception becomes clearer, you will get more mad than you already are.

        Sorry–part of the healing process, even though it hurts (and I think it helps to know what to expect).

        • Good to know Tempest! I couldn’t figure out why I felt so much more angry than ever after so much time passing! Now I know, I know he’s a douche! I can see him for the total narc asshole he has always been and it makes me angry at myself for the 40 years I wasted! I feel totally used!

          • Wow, Roberta, 40 years! I thought I might be near the record at having a 30+ year marriage blown apart. Of course, I have a son who is everything to me which does trump all the rest of it, but still… There were some good years and good times, but at this point she could have been cheating on me from Day one for all I know. Don’t really care to know at this stage, it would just be another body punch and I’ve frankly taken enough of them. I’m sure you have too. Unreal. So sorry.

            • Thank you Chump Guy! It has been an unreal journey! One that I could MEVER have imagined would happen to me, but it did! I just have to accept the almost unimaginable!

    • Personally…. I just couldn’t TAKE the selfishness anymore, it was SO overwhelming!!! And his constant need for outside attention was SO obvious…. it was all just exhausting!! I got TIRED of pretending (along with him & his Mommy) that he wasn’t just a self absorbed asshole. No need for me to try to figure out what the OW sees in him…. he has been charming the pants off of me for years, just wait until she gets tired of kissing his ass and being a cheerleader. Sooner or later I’m sure I’ll thank him for leaving.

  • So good CL! Spot on! My serial cheater said: “you became unlovable” and “I just want things to go back to the way it was before”

    Yeah. Same cheating handbook.

    • How about the “B” word—–BITTER.

      Anyone get that tossed their way?

      Bitter? Yeah, I guess I have bitter feelings for him considering the circumstances.

      • Hesatthecurb, of course we do! I have been called bitter because I am incapable of forgiving don’t ya know, plus cant even stay friends with the asswipe because I am bitter. MKAYY… I have no problem with that. 😉

        • We call my XH, Skip, because he skipped out. He told me on D Day that I was bitter and that he was too thin skinned to stay in our relationship. He also told me, after I FRIGGIN WASHED HIS FEET, like Jesus did because I wanted him to forgive any hurts I added to the marriage and I wanted him to try therapy for our children’s sake……he said, “if you had made me go to therapy those other times you asked, I would have, but now it is too late.” Oh that mind fuckery had me feeling guilt for months! As our marriage was hitting on hard times for the three years prior to DDay, I had asked him to please go to therapy with me and each time he replied, “we don’t need therapy. We know our marriage better than anyone else.” Um, I wanted help communicating that I was starting to feel lonely IN MY MARRIAGE? He chose the cowardly ho-worker route and is so happy because they have so much more in common. I was angry and bitter because I felt alone and he was shutting me out, it is true but I NO LONGER take the blame for it!

          • PAPrincess, yeah trying to save a marriage with the disordered is like throwing out a lifesaver to a drowning person. Uh, The candy Lifesaver. You were feeling lonely in the marriage because he was neglecting it. PAPrincess, you (and all the Chumps here) so deserve better.

  • Oh ….if I were nicer… understood more…. put out more…folded the laundry more… liked his mother more… Yes…. If I were more …. Then we would have less problems. This is how I translated… ‘ If you could just be a dim wit subservient dick sucker … I will be happy’
    I recall something he said to me when I was defending my ‘ niceness.’ He stood there and said in all sincerity ” You made this whole thing about me and TweenyBopper bad. One thing that was special to me and you made it bad.”
    Ya. Let me turn on the part of my brain that fucking cares. Fucking self centered Idiot.

    • YOU made “this whole thing about me and TweenyBopper bad.” Yeah, it’s not intrinsically bad to have an affair with a TweenyBopper. No sir. It’s not what he did…and did…and did….it’s your reaction to it.

      • “YOU just wouldn’t understand… you never will” or…. “It’s not like that”. Yeah…. guess all of those texts I saved are all a part of my imagination…. or perhaps you think I am too stupid to comprehend what I read?? Fuckwits is a perfect word!!

    • You were so mean that you painted the relationship between Cheater and Schmoopie as a negative? You dared to object to being cheated on, and thus destroyed his special love? You harshed his mellow?! Wow, you are such a bitch.

      (I do hope you speak sarcasm; it’s my first language.) 🙂

      • LMAO! Love the snark. Love the sarcasm. And love the vocabulary, “You harsher his mellow?” Hahaha! Gosh that is funny! Cheaters just seem to be the stupidest people on the planet. Who else blows up everything good?!?

    • SPOT ON!! The Clip…. AND it made me laugh extremely hard…. Thank you for that 😀

      ‘ If you could just be a dim wit subservient dick sucker … I will be happy’

    • OMG TheCilp! THIS: ‘ If you could just be a dim wit subservient dick sucker … I will be happy’ This is SOOO totally what my ex wanted, PLUS ‘I’ll also treat you with contempt, because I am so superior to you (as to everyone). And btw, I STILL won’t be happy, because I don’t do happy, never have, never will. But I’ll get to keep blaming you for my unhappiness, and I’ll enjoy that too!’

      Man, I so wish I’d had that UBT option installed when I turned 21 …..

        • Mine too when he found out he wasn’t going to get his “old life” back! What a dumbass! Truly believed I shouldn’t be angry or ask questions, just forge on! Yep! A dumbass!

      • I’m one of the chumps who never got an “explanation.”

        My X stopped all communication with me when he discarded me. He and I lived in our home, but he didn’t speak to me for two years; what fun! When he left, the venomous emails came.

        Looking back, it must have been when it became clear to X that I was a human being with basic needs. How horrible of me to not remain the shiny, new appliance/maid he thought he had bought on our wedding day in 1993. Here’s just one incident that illustrates how fucking inconvenient I was to him:

        When I needed to go to the emergency room one night for excruciating stomach pain, I had to drive myself because he wanted to catch the rest of a Bonanza rerun on TV. I came home 24 hours later after waiting in the emergency room waiting room with no answers. I begged him to drive me to another hospital, and he grudgingly did (no talking on the ride, of course), dropping me off in the emergency room and promptly leaving. He never called or visited me in the three days I was there. But my neighborhood friends – who were concerned they hadn’t seen or heard from me – noted that he still managed to get in his nightly walk and text routine with his mystery bimbo.

        I think he discarded me after 20 years when he found a cheaper, shinier model who would do more for him for even less. Seems he’s forgotten about today’s “planned obsolescence” on newer models. She’ll eventually fail on her duties, too. Like clockwork. I guarantee it.

        P.S. Diverticulitis sucks. Haven’t had another bout since he left.

        P.P.S. I’m SOOOOOOOO happy I’m divorced from that cold-hearted, selfish loser! 🙂

        • Chutes… I don’t know HOW you could stand it for two years, I put up with it for only 3 months and it drove me insane. Once the mask fell off I was completely IGNORED unless I pretended everything was fine (no mention of the AP or what he was “doing”). I was diagnosed with breast cancer during and he left and went to Mommy’s 6 days later. Asshole. He took some clothes… laptop… Ipad and his vehicle… three months later… all his crap is still here. NO communication whatsoever about ANY thing relevant to the demise of the relationship. We only communicate about our son. He is a vile being.

        • I think I finally had enough when I told him I had needs and he became enraged with his neck veins popping and replied YOU HAVE NEEDS. He really didn’t know. I too was discarded with no explanation and he never spoke to me again. At the court house I had the pleasure of emasculating him in front of a lot of witnesses. He wanted to prolong the divorce to get a lawyer after his first lawyer withdrew and he was a no show for the second hearing. Rather than default on the third hearing he threatened to get a lawyer. I told him to be a man and that his children would never speak to him if he took half my pension. This was in the hallway. I kept my pension, my vehicles, all the things in the house and he got an ugly sleazy bar whore. I call that a win win situation!! They are so disordered. I have never seen him look so angry as my lawyer made copies of the agreement. He lingered for a few minutes and then told me he thinks about me all the time. I turned around and looked at my friend and exclaimed, “I’m single”!!!!
          His words are meaningless. I will never have to dance with him again.

            • Thanks! I spent so many years accepting responsibility for his disturbing behavior. I am so greatful for the support, knowledge, and strength i gained from fellow chumps.

        • Chutes, I had a bout of Diverticulitis about 10 years ago. Worst pain I’ve ever had. I was lucky, w was still doing the right thing back then and got me to the emergency room. Cannot even imagine your husband. Bonanza rerun?!?!?!? Probably stating the obvious, but he sounds like a stone cold sociopath. Ugh!

        • Chutes,
          No explanation here either…not even a hint. He just goes on living his life and telling everyone he met OW 6 months after we separated and I guess he thinks we all believe it because he says it’s so.

          During our one counseling appointment that I forced him into he was asked by our therapist (a man he’s known for years) what he needed from me; peace. I heard this so many times, redundant to no end. I had asked what peace meant to him and he could never give a legit answer. So when he said this in our appointment I was eager for him to elaborate; one for my curiosity and another because I knew he would be stumped. He fumbled along with incomplete sentences and finally got out something along the lines of “Jamie just needs me for too much, for too many trivial things throughout her day and I don’t have the time for it”. When asked to elaborate a bit further: “I don’t know….I have work and school and I’m always driving and studying (having an affair) and she tries to text me or call me and ask for my help or tell me about something that happened in her day and it’s all trivial and I don’t have time for it…..”

          And I think that concludes our couples therapy session this evening. Moral of the story; you’re at the bottom of the list, he’s not interested in your life because he thinks it’s trivial and his is far more important. Specifically he doesn’t want you interrupting his time with his girlfriend. Don’t be trivial. Don’t be annoying. Give this man peace & please don’t effing question him about his actions, whereabouts, money missing, unaccounted for time, lack of participation in your family….he deserves to do whatever the fuck he wants and for you to, in return, give him peace.

          • Oh for CRYING out loud BetterJamie, we had to have had CLONES!! THAT is mine’s mantra…”I just want Peace” UBT: “I want to do whatever I want whenever I want, and please don’t kill my vibe with unpleasant reminders of others needs, accountability or consequences.”

            • You called it NC!
              For months while I was still in the fog I really thought I must be such an unbearable wench to be so hard on this man. Yeeaaaah…no. 🙂

      • KarenE… This was mine” ‘I’ll also treat you with contempt, because I am so superior to you (as to everyone). And btw, I STILL won’t be happy, because I don’t do happy, never have, never will. But I’ll get to keep blaming you for my unhappiness, and I’ll enjoy that too!’”

        I said to him, ‘I have a hard time reading you, you never smile.’ He said I just dont have a smiling face and don’t feel the need to smile. I believed him, he just doesn’t smile anywhere or with anyone. Smiling is a univeral language buddy… If you want to creep people out, Creepy Joe from Fresno, don’t smile… normal people will scatter.

  • ” I am a sad sausage. I sit by my window and pine for Nice Lori. Sometimes I think I hear her coming, and I paw at the door and wet myself from the excitement… but it was just the mailman. There’s nothing in my mailbox but cobwebs and loneliness. And bills I wish you would pay. And Pottery Barn catalogs addressed to you. Your name taunts me. I remember the Nice Lori and I cry.”

    ^^CL, this whole paragraph made my morning! Bahahaha!!!!! It’s too good!

  • Tracy I love your writing style, today’s post is particularly hilarious, I laughed out loud a few times and shared the link with my bff, the dog imagery was too good and your way of deciphering such bullshit is astute. I read your blogs for the entertainment value and not just for wake up calls. Your amazing! No really!

  • Oh yes, the “why do you have to be so angry?”. I also got “life is good, you have two healthy kids. Some people have kids with cancer”. Unreal.

    • I also got named as angry. My stbx also told me he was the best thing that ever happened to me. He told me that more than once.
      Our cheaters delusionment is legendary.

      • My cheating ex told me, in his exact words, “we were made for each other, yeah you may find another and he may make you happy, but you will never find another, that you could connect on every level like we could. Your mine and I am your true match and never will find another” now that, I call it delusional!

      • He used to say, “I don’t have problems with anyone but you”. He always played the ‘good guy’ card. What scares me the most is that he appears genuine. He is attractive and his demeanor is so likable. I guess if I could attach a warning to unsuspecting victims it would be that his EX wife wants nothing to do with him and he blames everything on her! How does a chump start dating after trusting an asshole for so long.

        • Donna, I started with reeeeeally nice guys. Maybe they weren’t exactly my type but they were very kind, thoughtful, generous….and that helped me in the beginning. I kept things light because I didn’t want to hurt anyone but having a man treat you with respect and genuinely find you attractive & fascinating, even for one dinner date was a big boost to the very low self esteem I had for so long. Gradually you get closer to your personal neutral. But, like all of it, it takes time. 🙂

    • GOOD grief!! They really DO have the same handbook…. mine said “why do you, then and now, have to be such an angry person?”

    • Yes, and SOME people are lucky enough to have a cheating ex who dies in a fiery crash….so we can still hope.

    • Around the time I was finding out about my ex’s affair, one of my coworkers was learning that her child had cancer. I remember watching her go through it and being jealous. I was wishing our own kid had cancer instead of me being cheated on because at least then I would have had my partner at my side during the ordeal. Looking back on it all now, that’s pretty much the lowest point in my whole life, wishing my kid had cancer because it would have been easier to deal with.

      • Just remembered! My ex told me once that lots of divorced couples continue to have sex. He had researched it. Because they work in that way! Astonishing kibbles!

  • Hmmm, he doesn’t address the fact that when Lori was nice, he cheated on her. Nice or not nice, Lori was gonna get cheated on. And now that Lori is really not nice after discovering he’s a cheater, that just proves he had to cheat.
    It all makes perfect sense.
    In my case, I was just horrid and horrible right from the beginning. I know this is true because my stbx told me so when I found out about him. And yet, he still wanted to be married to me. That’s a head scratcher, huh?

      • If Lori cheated on him, her ass would hustled out the door so fast she wouldn’t know which way was up. She ‘d be lucky to ever see her kids again. Spousal support, child support, hah, don’t be delusional Lori. Smear campaign starting ASAP. Narcissistic rage in its full out glory.

        • My serial cheating, pathological lying parasite ex told me “if you ever cheat on me we are done!” saying his ex-wife cheated on him so he divorced her, he wont put up with it and we would be done right there and then. However it turns out he had cheated on her during their entire marriage, never been faithful to any women, NOT ONE he has ever been with, including me, yet the fuckface wanted me to forgive, forget and grow old together and then had the nerve to tell me that I cant forgive anyone, while trying to get me back and still was cheating the whole time, then telling me I was throwing away a great thing by being so unforgiving.. Double standards much? SMH….

          • Your X is dangerously close to the line between delusional disorderd and delusional psychopath.

            • Ringinonmyownbell, I now seriously think he is a delusional psychopath..After I threw him out, for a while I let him come by once in a while so he can hang out with my son since my son adored him and they did things together. However, I noticed after every visit, something went missing or/and broken. I eventually realized he was sabotaging my home, constantly costing me money with repairs as such (after NC nothing has been broken) and he was stealing from my house, every time! One of the things he kept stealing was certain oven cookware he loved but would never buy for his home saying it was way too expensive and well he is a deadbeat mooch! ( he loves to cook and eat )I always have them as a set and kept replacing it like an idiot and when asked, of course he was playing the stupid. He was stealing many other things too. After the NC, less than 6 months ago I went and bought a complete set for my ovenware and joked with my son, saying “well they won’t be walking away on their own now since the ex is no longer allowed to set a foot in my home” When I finally went complete NC and I felt threatened for some reason so I armed myself. Anyways couple of months after NC he kept texting me late at night, letting me know he was nearby my home, I finally replied and warned him not to come over to my house, his reply “don’t worry I won’t, don’t want to get shot” then couple of other things he said that he had no way of knowing, but I just couldn’t figure out how because no one knew..Well couple of weeks ago my son and I came home and noticed my bedroom door was wide open, I have a habit of closing my door when I leave home, then some dirt on my floor on my laundry room carpet. My son and I take our shoes off, we don’t walk in the house with our shoes but ex used to do that and it use to drive me nuts. Anyways when I went NC I changed all of my locks just in case(I changed them after I threw him out too) however I didn’t re-code my garage door and my remotes, he didn’t have any of the remotes and it never even occurred to me until couple of weeks ago when this incident took place. So I went in and started to check on things that used to disappear when he was around, sure enough among other things, my brand new oven ware were gone, used ones are not touched, just the ones I haven’t used yet, so the set is broken again (brings back memories lol)! Here is the thing, I have expensive goodies at my home, tower less pc’s, laptops, flat screens, tablets, game systems etc etc, I even had my 1K camera sitting on my desk, none was taken. Robbers don’t enter your house and just steal ovenware etc. It seems the fuckface has been entering my home (I have been NC for 14 months)when my son and I were out, or when we were sleeping (btw he asked me once if I ever hear the garage door opening from my bedroom and I don’t)through my garage, he probably synced a remote to my garage door opener and was wiretapping my house so that’s how he knew what I was up to. Also my spare keys to my new locks are gone. Well I completely changed my locks again, just recently, erased all the codes on the garage door opener and the remotes and in couple of weeks brand new security cams with night vision etc will be installed. Some months ago he sent me texts insinuating he was the beneficiary to my things if something happened to me, which is an outright lie btw, because he was never beneficiary to anything that I have or own, my son is, so I told my son if anything happens to me and this fuckface claims he is beneficiary to anything, he is lying and whatever he has is forgery and to make sure to let the authorities know about everything. I guess he got comfortable breaking into my house, since he has been getting away with it and fucked up and he probably just couldn’t help himself when he saw the new ones. Like they say “the old habits are hard to die” well in his case they don’t.

              PS: I just bought a whole new set and hopefully I won’t have to replace them again lol.

              • Holy crap! That is so creepy and so scary – it sounds like something out of a movie, not real life! I sure hope your latest safety measures work and you can keep that creep out of your house.

              • That is extremely creepy. Like, Norman Bates creepy. Good thing you’re getting the security cameras up soon. It’s too bad you couldn’t get a P.O. as well! Wow!

              • Thank you Koru, that’s the plan and hopefully all these will keep the creep out of my house for good. You know what is so sickening though? A guy who always complained how broke he is/was that he couldn’t afford that cookware, even a garden hose which was $45.00 dollars when I bought it, saying he needs one but can’t afford it (he stole that too lol) yet he can afford a 40k plus brand new vehicle, then pimps it up with expensive rims (he is almost 50), tires, lights etc. and steals cookware and other things for his place from a single moms house while stalking her… What a bottom feeder creep he truly is! What he did didn’t scare me, I don’t scare very easily, it actually fueled my anger and pissed me off even more!!

              • FoolMeTwice, yes it is creepy, I thought about getting P.O. but in some cases it pisses off the stalker even more, plus he never actually threatened me, like in a text so they won’t do anything until there is something to show. He wrote once in a text, saying he would like to strangle me, but quickly after that he made a smiley face, like it was just a joke and this was after I went NC with him. He only stole things that he can just say yeah I bought them, but if it was something like my expensive camera then it could’ve been traced back to me as me being the owner, then things would’ve been different. This guy is not stupid, he is very slick and extremely sneaky, so for now I will wait…

                The security cam system that I got is pretty neat, with sensors, night vision etc. so if anyone approaches my house it takes videos, pics and will send it to my phone immediately and I can also check on my house with my phone even if I am in another state.

            • Several of us shared the same man–the one that presented that false, sad sausage story about his previous wife cheating on him although he was cheating on her.

            • Mine once told me that him cheating is “nothing” whereas me cheating would be “terrible”.
              His two main long term APs (that I know about) were both married women and the second one who he is . still with was the wife of a colleague whom he once considered to be a friend. This man ended a long marriage to marry her.
              He obviously has no problem with women cheating as long as they cheat with him and not on him!

          • Nicolette, I heard the same sob story… “she threw me away” in reference to his ex (married 12 years, 3 kids) and finally when I CONFIRMED the cheating (forget all previously suspected possible warnings) I called her and just simply “asked” what had happened. She said “technically I suppose I did “throw him away” after years of his selfishness and lies and finally confirming that he was having an affair that began when our youngest was 6 months old…. yes… I threw him away…. and YOU should too!!” She flat out said “he will DENY DENY DENY… even when you catch him he will DENY.. he is NEVER wrong and it is always YOUR fault!!” I am grateful for her honesty & friendship, I would probably have continued to BLAME myself and be an even bigger chump. Makes me feel not so crazy!!

            • NCSevie, yes that’s just like my ex, “he will DENY DENY DENY… even when you catch him he will DENY.. he is NEVER wrong and it is always YOUR fault!!” that’s definitely him. Count your blessings he is not your problem anymore!

        • They delude themselves on this, as well. Mine said he would have taken me back, even if I had had a year-long affair, as long as I still loved him. Hmmph. Then he added (since his powers of forgiveness for this hypothetical situation were obviously much greater than mine over his real adultery): “I guess I just love more honestly than you.” Sure, if you don’t define “honest” as “absence of deception.” SMH

      • Ex actually said he couldn’t imagine what it would be like if i did what he did to me. Yup!! Narc speak for I can’t empathize.

        Many if his AP’s over the years told me the horrible things he said about me. I came up with my own list of what he lost.
        He lost his independence and freedom. His whore keeps him on a short leash, knowing about his history. He no longer goes to the gym for two hours a day. She won’t allow it. He can’t play his drums for two hours a day. She lives in an apartment complex(a dump). He can’t see his adult children. They want nothing to do with her. His granddaughter isn’t allowed to be with her as she was arrested for assault and drug charges. He can’t buy a house because he is self employed and hides his income. His whore doesn’t make much money. He lost a wife who put up with his disorder and loved him unconditionally (a chump). He lost the kibbles I supplied. I gained a life.

        • WOW Donna….. maybe ours are related??? Also “self employed” and hides income (also can control garnishments & child support, not from me… I have copies of everything) AND also lost someone who put up with his disorder and loved him unconditionally along with a son that absolutely adored him.

        • Donna, my ex had the sob story of every previous girlfriend cheating on him….the eternal victim. But when I expressed my genuine feelings of sympathy and compassion for that here’s what I received:

          Scumbucket: “it really wasn’t that big of a deal.”
          Me: “multiple psychological studies prove that people who’ve gone through cheating/affairs claim it to be the most devastating experience in their life. Of course it’s a big deal.”
          Scumbucket: “well that’s dramatic. I didn’t really care.”

          So what that *should’ve* told me was he was incapable of feeling real human emotions, incapable of empathizing with others and likely lying his face off because he was probably the one doing the cheating.

  • I think “before” translates as “when you were naive and clueless about my deceitful ways.”

    Kind of hard to get that back “after” noticing those lies piled up all over the place.

  • Awesome, love the spin they put on things. I got, “I never knew what I was coming home to at night”. Well of course my mood depended on how late he was, how drunk he was, how unhelpful he was, but again my fault, not his. My special favorite was, “I liked it better when you were drinking”. Yes it could be a country song, but no he was serious. Of course I was more fun then. It’s a lot easier to live with someone who is numb and doesn’t pay attention to your bullshit. The good news, for him, is that the other woman drinks like a fish and takes pain killers. She should be numb for quite a while. Maybe she won’t notice what a lying, POS he is for a long time.

  • Ugh. These cheaters are dreadful.

    Mine lied and lied to me, therapists and just about everyone else. He then claimed we had “grown apart.” He was absolutely crazy making and now that he is out of my life, my “niceness” and kindness have come back. Fancy that. He was an abusive jerk. My therapist said that if I hadn’t responded to his behaviour in the manner that I did (by being angry) she would have been worried about me. It was actually very normal to be upset when I was living with that.

    I’ve learned so much since cheater pants left. I’m happier, healthier mentally and much more compassionate. If anyone lacked compassion and kindness it was cheater pants.

    CL, I laughed out loud at your UBT. It’s spot on. Cheaters can justify anything.

    • i wish i had your therapist, Thensome. During our one and only couples session during faux reconciliation, his first words were about how angry and moody i was. the therapist let it stand and treated him with high esteem. i cringe when i think of how i swallowed that double decker shit sandwich.

      today’s post reminds me of similar words. when i was in shock the first week of DDay, he said i was being so nice, i had changed, and this is what he really wanted i our marriage. i did not know about kibbles or that his affair had been sexual at that point. i did not know he was NPD & BPD then. but i knew he had many many limitations. that i forgave/spackled.

      am grateful all i am learning here. i love my self like never before. but i need some lessons in how to be more of a kickass again with regard to XH continued bullshit narrative. i want to find the woman who used to speak her mind to her husband. she started to hide during the 4 years of blameshifting and gaslighting. it was almost like brainwashing. i started to believe my anger about his behaviors was bad, when in fact, his (hidden) behaviors were bad.

      XH current narrative with his family and our daughters (you can imagine…the usual playbook of “all he had to put up with living with me) still trips the Chumpette’s anger is the problem.

      i have to remember that in normal families, people get angry, fuss, and then get over it. it is normal. he was/is not.

  • My SIL emails me weekly to tell me that my depression is the reason that I can’t forgive stbx. Not his actions, which apparently are not connected to my depression in any way. My feelings!

    And like Lori’s cheater, mine keeps saying wistfully, “I just wish you would be happy again.” I say, ” I will be.” I don’t add, “When you’re gone.”

    • LOL! That’s awesome, Kristen! “I will be happy again…..when you’re gone.”

      I don’t know if anybody else feels this way, but after D-Day #1, and I would bring up “The Friend”, he would say things as if he didn’t understand who it was he was talking to at the time. “Sphinx, she’s just a friend. And now that you’ve screamed and carried on and scared her, I’m not sure she’ll ever trust me again.”

      He said other things after D-Day #2 (where I had actual proof, not just “we’re just friends”) “It’s not like this will ever happen again, Sphinx. You and OW have ruined sex for me forever.” and “OW told me that sometimes she that sex with me was demeaning.” What did you say? Do you understand who it is you are talking to?


  • Hilarious!! So true CL! Your UBT is amazing !!

    My X also used to tell me was always an angry person. Funny…before him I never was. I new all these years I was pissed at him because of his treatment of me, before I knew about the affairs. But he would always turn it around on me, tell me I was so mean, such a jerk, a bitch, an asshole. He even told me it was my reaction to his “truth-telling” that was the real problem. HA!!!

    During my last pregnancy(which my baby ended up passing away) he would ONLY refer to me as Asshole. Not my name. Just Asshole. By then he was in full on fuck-fest-in-the-woods mode and I was being a buzz kill, pregnant with 4 other little ones to care for. How dare I tell him to not leave for the weekend!!! How dare I not worship the ground he walked on when he decided to grace us with his presence!!! Now that he’s gone…I’m not so angry anymore…hmmm.

    • freeatlast, sometimes I read things on here and they leave me speechless. Your X is so cruel. So cruel. And I am so sorry that while you were enduring all that, you also lost your baby. You are very mighty to have come through that experience with such humor and awareness.

      • Thank you LAJ. They really are sick. I forget sometimes about the awful things he’s done. it’s just too much. Being a wonderful narc, he made sure to use our deceased baby as a pitty play for many OW to feel sorry for him and sleep with him. I hope there is a special place in Hell for him. Sick. Just sick.

        • Free, my ex did the same pity play w/his recently deceased younger brother. The one he didn’t know (moved away when the brother was a toddler), didn’t respect (brother very unlike him, so therefore terribly flawed!), never spoke to or corresponded with, and had spent maybe 14 days with in the previous 10 years, none of them talking to the brother or doing anything with him, just family group stuff. He did fly over to visit his brother in the last few days of his life, I couldn’t figure out why, but I guess it would have looked bad, otherwise, and it did provide some support for their mother.

          They are sick sick people, and using these family tragedies to manipulate others goes way beyond their usual pathetic and into evil. We’re lucky to have them out of our lives.

          • This made me remember one of the excuses my cheater husband gave me after D-day. He said he had to do whatever it took to make himself happy, because losing his Uncle made him realize that life is too short to be un-happy. WOW, I totally forgot about that one, there were so many excuses and lies.

            • Ahhhhh, of COURSE he deserves to be happy. And OF COURSE the kids want him to be happy. After all, if he’s happy, they will see that and in turn he can provide them happiness. Duh.

            • I got the same thing… Life is too short and I NEED TO BE HAPPY. He’s so happy these days that all he does is cry! Meanwhile, my daughters and I are blossoming and relishing the ability to do what we want, when we want. How much fun it is to watch The Bachelor without condemnation!

              • Mine uses that one too… “:Life is short and I need to be HAPPY” or the latest “I need PEACE”. PAY no attention to the fact that our son is his 5th child and he has pretty much hurt every single one of them. He LOVES to play the “my kids come first” card…. it’s pathetic… HE comes first… ALWAYS!! He consistently ditches them on his visitation weekend or holiday if he has the opportunity to spend the weekend going to meet up with HER. I HATE even thinking about how much he will hurt my son over the next several impressionable years (he is only 7 right now). I just keep praying for KARMA, nothing specific… just KARMA!!

              • Omg NCStevie! I just posted above about PEACE!!!! Holy crap!!! That was my STBX’s favorite word for what he so desperately needed & what I wasn’t giving him.
                Dude…the lack of peace isn’t from me, it’s from your disordered scrambled egg of a brain always trying to hide, conceal, lie, deceive, pretend…and repeat.

                If I took a flame thrower to someone’s whole life I surely wouldn’t expect them to lay down and take it peacefully.

    • I am so sorry freeatlast about your baby, the cruel abuse you had endured, the way you were treated by this sorry excuse of a human waste and he is the real ASSHOLE!!!

      • So sorry Freeatlast. What a total jerkoff. I do hope there is a special place in hell just for him.

        • Oh, let’s not worry about that special place in hell for these shithooks—–it exists! Especially Freeatlast’s. He’s gonna be in the hottest corner.

          • If my STBX is correct in his theory: they (the liars) will be shoveling shit in the 7th layer of hell. Direct quote.

            Soooooo where does that place you cheater pants?

      • Freeatlast, you XH is one SICK, SICK dude. You never found anything crimimal with him, like some serious douchebaggery. How in the world do you coparent with him. I am praying that he just walked away from you, the kids. I am glad you are here. You know in your heart that he is a waste of skin, but having us all tell you he is beyond comprehension is good for the soul. I hope he is languishing in prison somewhere, with a cell mate, with even more hideous issues than his.

        • Of course he hasn’t walked away! He’s taking back to court because he wants more custody, not full custody, just enough so he doesn’t have to pay child support. And no prison cell yet, but given that I’m no longer around to tell him NOT to do stupid things, he’ll either end up in jail, have an accident, or someone else will seek their vengeance on him. Just a hunch.

  • I was pretty aggravated and pissed off intermittently during the entirety… but that would be because I was ignored, belittled, abandoned alone with my son and no car while he was at the bar, a “bitch” when I got tired of being steam-rolled by him and his grown son. HE never had consequences for any of his bad behavior (thank u Narc Momma) and he didn’t impose any on his children (only be fun/nice Daddy) and any time I had a problem with this…. I was the “meanie” or “negative” person. Get real. Idiot.

  • I am crying laughing. Your translation is hilarious..
    I recently joined the club. I am amazed to hear how these narcs are all alike. It’s like ‘Us and Them’.
    I wish there were Chump Meet Ups. It would be cheaper than therapy and we can drink!!

    • Join the forum. (Up there in the navbar under Log In”. They have meet-ups in quite a few places. Or start one!

      • Yea, we should have one in Chicago after it warms up 🙂 They all work from the same script and destroy us in much the same ways. Commiseration would be healing.

  • Part of the UBT’s magic is that it drags the whispered words of cheater-babble into the open air where they can be seen for the stupid, cruel blame-shifting that they are. When we read these words in a midnight email, they tug at a chump’s conscience. But when CL interprets them in public and chumps chime in with hard-won experience, you know better.

    Sunlight truly is the best disinfectant.

    • So true, nomar! What once caused so much pain and confusion is now out there for all to see and laugh at – which is as it should be. Thank God for CL and her UBT.

  • My exH told me after DD – ” I could have more respect for you if you’d handled this better and been more reasonable”. I exploded and said “Whaaaaat? You screw another woman in our bed and then expect me to be f***ing ‘reasonable’ ?? What planet are you on ??!!

    I wish I could find the person who wrote The Cheaters’ Handbook – I’d like to smack ’em in the chops !

    • Juliet, I heard the same thing. I was the unreasonable one, always. We both worked full time outside of the home so on the weekends I absolutely did find it totally unreasonable for him to be gone ALL THE TIME. He liked to use the excuse, “brave, you LIKE to stay home and you can go out whenever you want. I’m not stopping you!”. The lure of going out didn’t look so good when I had housework to do and a baby to care for. But it was my fault for demanding that he stayed home. Always unreasonable. In the real world, it’s called being responsible.

      • My ex could never just spend time at home, he was always off doing something. I think he was so uncomfortable in his own skin that he couldn’t be still. He couldn’t relax or just spend time with family and looking back I don’t think we had one real conversation, liars have so many secrets. Evasive as fuck. In our last few years together he knew of a couple of coworkers who had died young and he used this as one reason for cheating. “I can’t do this anymore[our marriage apparently], I want to be happy.” Like everything we had never existed. Guess it doesn’t when you’re fishing for others to make your world complete. Every time he runs into my Dad he can barely blurt out fast enough, ” I am so happy NOW, I made the best decision.” WOW. This from the idiot who left his HIV test in his desk drawer. I laugh out loud though when I think of him and his Cheater OW. Karma right there. And me off to an authentic life.

        • Drew Says I can so relate. Never wanted to spend time relaxing at home “burning daylight” was his favorite saying. No cuddling, no afternoon movies, worked 7 days a week. I now know he wasn’t always working – very evasive, didn’t want to have real conversations, he might slip up and tell me something…I got the ILYBINILWY speech and he just wants to be happy. Said he warned me that he wanted sex daily and in different places in the house so since he “warned” me I left him no choice but to cheat. Idiot!

        • @drew & Michele,
          Yes to all. My mother described him the same way you described yours: uncomfortable in his own skin.
          I felt that way about him too. Always needing to make a run to the store for ice or nothing at all, his father is the same way. He is always trying to escape.

          Just brought back an old memory I had forgotten! During one of our worst arguments he told me arguing with me made him want to crawl out of his skin or jump out a window.

          Fuck, man. I’m the dramatic one?

          • TheBetterJamie, it’s really too bad the fucktard didn’t jump out the window!! Well, maybe someday one woman will make him so mad, he will jump out a window, from a sky scraper! 😉

    • The RIC babbles about this one too. “Avoid retribution” and “control your anger so its not counter productive”…whatever. In other words, make sure these asshats never face their consequences

  • Mine was a little twist on this theme, but still the same heads I win, tails you lose mentality. I was not mean to her, did not lash out or yell at her. I just shut down and detached and moved on as best I could. This was twisted into sort of a “Well, what I did may not have been right from your point of view, but there are always reasons that things like this happen. And you seem to want to put all the blame on me.” Once she got angry that I wasn’t “proving” that things could be different, because if she saw I could be different maybe she wouldn’t have to seek out other men.

    And, yep, she is a heavy social drinker, sometimes very heavy, and she often gets very nasty when she drinks. And amazingly, she can drink the night away when she gets rolling, but never ends up staggering around or getting sick or any of the usual problems that go with getting drunk. THe guy I’ve been seeing for therapy (who knows her) says she is likely a functioning alcoholic in addition to her bi-polar issues.

  • I have a bit of a different take on this: I used niceness (and his initial guilt after DDay#2) during 2014 as a strategy to negotiate a divorce on my terms. It worked out really well because I got everything I wanted AND custody, but I had to bite my lips so many times and cry in despair on my own, that now that everything is signed and the divorce is finalized, my repressed anger has come out a few times (in my own gentle, sarcastic kind of way). Cheater is upset and in shock and has asked me why I have changed so much, why I am not nice anymore? Now in 2015, as I begin to tell him the truth about my feelings (I know, I know, I should not engage…) he gets outraged because he says that we should not talk about “that” (his affair of two years, plus others EAs I discovered) but rather I should stop acting as a victim and realize how I contributed to the end of our marriage by not meeting his needs (of course, he never thinks about how my needs were not met, or accepts that he emotionally abused me during our 20 year marriage…). Every word and action of his comes straight from the cheater handbook…He is so predictable that after every conversation I look it up in CL´s book and I find almost the exact words to describe what he is doing…Amazing!

    • Interesting Chumpita, I play the nicey nice card with mine most of the time too, because we are still going through the divorce. It’s a means to an end. I want custody of our child and to not have to pay him to go away and it works pretty damn well. It’s fascinating how much he “bites” when I’m being super sweet TBJ. Sometimes I think he thinks we are actually friends (no fucking thank you, sorry for the language) and other times I think he thinks I still lust for him….lol…all because I can bury the anger until the divorce is final.

      They. Are. Delusional.

      • Totally delusional, TBJ! Using the theory of kibbles against them is a sweet revenge and very helpful too. I thought about this when I understood what makes narcissists tick. But now that I don´t care anymore about negotiating with him because everything is settled, we have very bad endings to our conversations, which helps me confirm what an ass he was even without the cheating. So, definitely, no contact, when possible, is the only remedy that has allowed me to advance in recovery. ,

        • Will do, Chumpita. For awhile I actually tried being his friend, in the beginning….it was a really sad rendition of the pick me dance. But I truly would be capable of that and beyond willing…buuuuutttttttt he’s a narc sociopath. So I’m outta luck.
          Aside from the necessary convos about our 2 year old we are pretty much NC. Until holidays & vacations….then I’m the one who needs to escape to my happy place. My Lord scheduling plans with a disordered is a tit-twisting pain in the ass (pardon the description. It felt like the right comparison. Hahaha). It’s filled with contradictions and personal effects. Good grief, sir, I just want to know what time we are meeting!

          End rant 🙂

  • Fuck that noise!

    “I’m sorry. No matter what you say or think. I’m sorry.”

    Nope. Sorry is as sorry DOES, not as sorry SAYS.

    Listen to their actions, not their words.

  • I was actually told I was “too nice.” Yup. Aside from wanting someone younger and Asian, the asshat wanted someone “edgier.” Then I was “angry all the time” because no, my grandmother didn’t give him her furniture to him because she liked him better than me. She gave it to me, and no, he couldn’t have it. When I moved out, ex told me “You took all the best stuff!” Yes, I took what came with me because it is mine. “Well, you don’t have to be so angry! Now what are We going to do?”

    I guess Slut Student liked my things and my family things and he didn’t want to disappoint her. Bummer.

    • I was actually told I was “too nice.” Yup. Aside from wanting someone younger and Asian, the asshat wanted someone “edgier.”
      Survivor, you have just described me and my situation. My ex is now 63 years old and after knowing me since we were 18 and married for 37 years, he is now relocating to Cambodia for the teenage girls. He told me that they are slim with athletic bodies and small hands!! I feel sick when I think of him. By the way, even though I am 63 years old, I am still very slim but I do not have small hands. Maybe the small hand issue speaks volumes about his inadequate manhood. I still shake my head and I suppose I always will but my life is so much better now than I could have imaged it would be. I am glad to be free of him. I never though I would ever feel like this. I am about 1 mile from meh! 🙂

      • Maree, I think my cheater equated “Asian” with traditionally subservient. The insults narcissists use are about things that are not easy to pick me dance around. Oh, I can certainly believe being left based on hand size. Or age. Things no one can argue with. Your hands are large from working your entire life or by reason of genetics. A deal breaker after 37 years. You are too old because you didn’t stay young like I wanted. Another deal breaker after 16 years. These people are so shallow, you can walk through the puddle of them without wetting your shoes. Keep walking, and see the real world where a wrinkle or too large a finger won’t compel someone to lie and cheat. What’s on the inside of a person is real, and if those disordered people can’t see that, find some new friends who can.

        • Maree & Survivor-my stbx also has a penchant for the very young, barely legal, and Asian girls. He claims that Asian women are “loyal” which is cheaterspeak for subservient. Please understand that this plays directly into the narcissist playbook-they want power and to control. They feel superior to these young girls and think that they can control them to do whatever they want. Aside from the creepy thing about them being so young, it’s almost like they want a slave. Everytime I look at stbx now, I am repulsed. The girls he is after are his niece’s age. I wonder how he would feel if he knew 46 year old men were trying to be with her.

          On a side note, some of my girlfriends who are Asian have advised me that most of these gals know American men are drawn to them and act shy/sweet to get what they want & use these idiots for all they can get and dump them. My Asian girlfriends laugh at stbx now & tell me they wish an Asian girl on him.

          • Your friend is absolutely right! These girls do everything to get what they want, take these old fools for everything they got then they dump them. One of my dear friends who was married to such an asswipe, after 30 some years of marriage he wanted to trade her for a young Asian girl and tried to throw her on the street with nothing and mind you she has been a stay at home mom at his request to raise their 3 kids and serve his ass through out their marriage! He told her the house, everything in it, the vehicles, savings, his pension was all his and he would make her disappear if she took anything. Well she got half of his pension and alimony to boot and the house. The idiot still makes good money but it kills him that his ex-wife got all that, and all the extra money he could’ve had and spend with his new, young, Asian gf, now his wife. His Asian gf, now wife, well she wasn’t happy she didn’t get to live in her house with all those nice things, nevertheless he bought another house, furnished it and bought his Asian young wife a nice car, she got her boobs done, fabulous clothes, then she started to fuck some young guy behind his back while the old fool waited for his young, sweet Asian wife at home. Suckerrrr!! He is way over 60 and knows his young Asian wife is fucking around but its either divorce her and lose whatever he has left and be alone or stay married so at least he wouldn’t be alone while some other guy gets the goodies from his young wife. What an idiot!!

            Guess who has a great life and having the last laugh now?!?!? LOL LOL :))))

          • My ex looked at young girls half his age. As he got older and started falling apart it wasn’t just degrading it was perverted. Part of their sick fantasy is to be 21 forever. Thinking back to when I was young and some old guy looked at me that way was creepy! On the weekend of my final DDay he was checking out girls a few years older than his granddaughter. Gross! There is such a disconnect between what they fantasize about and what they end up with. It comforts me to know his pecker picker landed him a skank. They are delusional.

            • My Ex used to pretend he was fucking underage girls during sex with me. However, OW is a year older than me (so she is 60), so I guess he will have to keep pretending.

      • Like I said above, heads I win, tails you lose. If you call them out on the way they treat you, well, you are a nasty, mean, bitter person and no wonder they seek comfort elsewhere. If you are nice, well then, you’re too nice; they want someone edgier, or a bad boy.

  • Chumpita I think that many chumps can use the first few days when and if the cheater feels guilty to do exactly what you have done. The need to protect my children and their home and provide a safe secure base for us meant that I insisted that he do one decent thing in his life and hand over the house to me. He’s keeping other marital assets and so I’m not getting more than I would have done if we’d had a confrontational divorce but at least we’re splitting our assets between ourselves rather than sharing it with lawyers. I still have to bite my lip for a bit longer as we have a few more things to sign, but touch wood we’ll get there.

  • I posted this crap-weasel speak the other day, but it bears repeating on today’s theme (from my STBX, dismayed that I did not get over his affair after 2 months and 1 MC session):

    “I think that we can fix all that has been wrong, but only if you can let the past go. If you can’t — if you can only stay tense, angry, anxious, untrusting, moody, unhappy, and jealous (as you are now) as a result of the affair — then I do not see how we can avoid divorce.”

    conclusion: We can’t avoid divorce (should happen this month), and I’m even ANGRIER than I was. Dipshit.

    • Right on, Tempest.

      One month after I filed, my wife wrote that “we can work this out. We just both need to swallow our pride.”

      Um…what, exactly, was she swallowing her pride about? About having to follow the rules of marriage that we agreed to on our wedding day?

      As you said, conclusion: keep pressing forward with divorce.

      • JC–In other words, “You swallow YOUR pride, JC.”

        (Chances are that she had swallowed something other than pride.)

      • Wow JC, my cheater said, besides me being so unforgiving of course, “you wont even try to work this out because of your pride, you just wont let it.” Which btw is a lie because I stayed for 3 years after the DDay and was subjected to extreme gaslighting, outright denials, half truths and the whole time “we were trying to work it out” he was still lying and cheating on me with someone else. I threw him out and felt bad since he had no where to go, he was very good at pity play (looking back, how stupid of me, a grown man, with a full time job in a management position but he had no money to get a place of his own ) and I let him move back in, gave a roof over his head then 10 days later he ran out the door, supposedly to get me flowers for valentines day and as soon as he was out of my house called his other whore he was fucking for 2 years that I didn’t know about. Why didn’t he move in with her? Because he wasn’t willing to support her or anyone else financially and god forbid spend his money on anyone but for himself(according to him all the bitches around here was looking for a meal ticket, in reality it was him who was looking for a meal ticket) and live in a dump when he could live a good life in my beautiful home, eating my food while fucking others. This one wasn’t married but had a live in boyfriend.

        • They’re just weak people. Simple as that. It’s everyone else’s fault but their own, and everyone else has to fix things.

          • The only time he was truthful in 36 years was when he said it was always about the thrill of the chase. And look what he caught!! Laughable after I met her! When I asked what he would do when she figured it out he said he would dump her. Sick!!

    • Anger is powerful and good under the circumstances. Letting it go and swallowing your pride is giving permission for a repeat performance. Again, they use the “we” to share blame where no sharing is due.

    • My stbx asked me about 6 months after Dday, “when can we be intimate again”?
      I replied, “I can’t be intimate with you”.
      His response… “Can’t?… or Won’t?”
      This was a real mind-bender for me. hmmmm….. is there a difference? Does one imply obstinance?

  • Marriage screwed me up so bad. MC was no good. ChumpLady has been so helpful. Deep inside, I knew something wasn’t right in my blame shifting marriage. Yes he wanted me to “Go back to being the person he married.” … When I was trusting and nice.
    No amount of forgiveness on my part was going to change him. Any more ‘niceness’ from me & I’d have been certifiably looney.
    I sure hope my terrible experience benefits a newer chump. Run from disordered character before s/he drains all your lifeblood!

    • Friend, going back to being the naive and trusting person he married isn’t possible once you’ve discovered that he is not the person you thought you married. Trust that he sucks, and that you are wiser now. You will still be nice to people who deserve your niceness. Just not lying cheating crapweasels. That is okay.

      • What is with cheaters and the all the going back stuff? My stbx is on a roll right now with the “I just want things to go back the way they were when we got married” or “the way it was before we got married” Knowing the kind of person (and I use that term loosely) he is now, I’m sure he’s been cheating the whole time he’s been with me AND he was already starting to cut me off physically on our honeymoon.

        Why on god’s green earth would I ever want to repeat that again?

        If I could go back in time it would be to leave him at the altar and live a cheater free life

  • When Schmoopie came on the scene, I suddenly became that nasty, hateful, controlling bitch that he had never been happy with and hated practically from the moment he met me. I remember a friend of his admitted to me one day that even he had called bullshit on that to X. Then, the moment Schmoopie dumped him, it became, “I never meant those nasty things I said, I’ve always loved you, I was happy when I was with you, you’re the best!” He never quite understood that there are certain things you can never take back. Yes, the cheating was bad, but the hateful things he said about me and how he felt about me, that has stuck.

    Now, it’s become this weird, “Why won’t you be my friend?” thing. He tries to talk to me when he calls the kids: “How are you?” “Fine.” “You don’t sound fine.” “Well, I’m fine.” “You just don’t want to talk?” “I’m busy.” “Oh.” or wants me to go out to lunch/dinner with him and the kids the days he picks them up for visitation. “I’ll take you to eat.” “No thanks.” “Why don’t you want to go out to eat with us?” “I’m busy.” He has a few times actually said, “You hate me.” “You don’t want to be around me.” And gets a blank stare for an answer.

    I don’t know what he expects – well that’s not true, he expected to just be allowed to get Schmoopie out of his system, and then come back whenever he felt like it, he basically said that once. He dumped me! He didn’t want to be with me anymore! Remember the hate? Why would you want to be friends with someone you hate?

    • Kira, my ex has said everything your ex said. Theyre parrots. Hey, i know i beat you senseless, but you healed so lets be friends. Um nope. Just replace beat with cheat and its the same thing. My ex wife calls me “hon”. Gonna have to chat about that. Im not hon, im scott. Im not a pet name. I was fucker, i was asshole, i was sonofabitch when she was cheating. Im not hon now that her OMs have figured out what a psychopath she is.

      • OMG, Scott, mine does the same thing with the pet name! They would be the perfect couple – we should hook them up so they can make each other miserable, LOL.

        I wonder if its a way of distancing themselves, like to call us Kira or Scott would make us real. Kira/Scott is a person, a person they made vows to and then broke them – “hon” isn’t anyone really.

        • I was finally called “my wife” when no one would let him talk to me anymore. “Let me talk to MY WIFE!” Really? You forgot you had a wife when you told your conquests you were separated or divorced. I didn’t care to be a piece of his property, thank you. I was called by my actual name when the replacement part didn’t fit into his lifestyle. That didn’t work either by then. “I have another call. Hang on, it might just sound like a dial tone.”

        • After we split, and he was with OW, he would still say I love you on the phone,when hanging up. I started laughing at it. Then he got mad at me. Asked why I was laughing. Told him if he REALLY loved me, he wouldn’t have done what he did, so I no longer believed it and he should just stop saying it. He was pissed I wouldn’t accept his faux-love. Eh…whatevs…..

        • Yeah, my ex tried to keep using my nickname after I left. Instant “ICK” factor. It’s like, nuh-uh. You don’t get to call me that anymore. Though truth to be told, after D-day, even the sound of my own name coming out of his mouth sounded gross.

            • Ugh, the only time I ever heard my name from his mouth was when it was attached to “What, *Whodathunk*” in the nastiest tone you can imagine. When my name comes out of someone’s mouth now in a loving or caring way, it almost seems foreign. That is fucked up.

            • Yes…THIS…he says my name…Or “Baby Doll”…I wanna puke and punch him in his sick DISORDERED LIPS!

      • I have a really good friend who is a man & he got divorced because she cheated on him. She went on and married her AP. My friend has done an amazing job to get along with her for his kids sake even though she sucks. The interesting thing he said to me was that when he was married to her, she said I didn’t make enough money, I was stupid, I was no fun, etc. but after we got divorced, she thinks I’m funny, charming, and talented……WTF?!

        It’s pathetic how disordered these cheaters really are.

        • My grandfather did this; treated my grandmother as if she were stupid and worthless, complained about her to everyone. Then after she dies, he’s all ‘oh,she was such a sweet woman, such a good person, I miss her so much’. Well, fucker, if she was so good and kind and you value that, why didn’t you treat her better while she was here?????

          I don’t know what kind of disordered he was, whether a narc or PTSD from the First World War trenches, or just a mean bastard. But he sure taught me about what I didn’t want in a marriage! (So I got other flavours of disordered, instead, sigh ….)

    • “I never meant those nasty things I said…” OMG, yes. I was told “we all say things we don’t mean when we’re angry!” Excuuuuuuuse me? Not like that you peckerhead. You see that? I just called him a name AND I MEANT IT!!

  • When I would get upset about what went on with CFMily, my XH would accuse me of scab farming…You always have to pick at that scab dont’ you. You wont allow enough time for anything to heal between us. So I shut up… and shut up for the next 25 years. Not being quiet any more… and with the help of everyone here I am honing my UBT, not just to recognize it but to call people on it in a sort of Church Lady way because if you show just the teensiest bit of anger, aggravation, disbelief, snarkiness, or any other emotion that is not sweetness and light or less that Goody Two Shoes behavior, then you get rage at least from XH. And when done correctly it is fun. 🙂

  • I got a slight variation of this blameshift when I blew up at cheater for secretly FB messaging the mother of our daughter’s friend. He said “this is why I can’t talk to you!” LOL. Yeah, sorry, I get angry when my daughter has to hear about your trolling for OW from her friends at school.

  • What is it with the cheaters using the word “we”? Once you screw someone else, there is no “we”!

    • This. This right here. Mine just recently emailed me…”why won’t you talk to me??”

      Because you fucked someone else, that’s why. We are done.

      Luckily we weren’t married and didn’t have any children so I have the luxury of refusing to respond. But how he could not know they ‘why’ or how he has the balls to ask me why…remains a mystery to me.

      • Ha ha ha , my ex use to text me “why do you have to be like this? Why wont you talk to me??” in the following months when I went complete NC. Complete silence, nothing, nada zilch from my end. Geeezz, let me think Einstein, better yet you think why and figure it out. SSMH…

  • Here’s a bit of irony: Cheater told me shortly after he filed that we could communicate ONLY through a certain website that high-conflict divorcing couples often use to communicate about kids, assets, etc.–for his protection. Correspondence through this site is considered admissible in court. Months later, after inflicting much more abuse, he told me that he wanted to reconcile. I sent him a list of several questions to determine how our reconciled life would be (e.g., will you return the kids’ money that you used for prostitutes to the kids? Will you obey the law?’ Next time I saw him (have to see him a few times per week for kids), he told me that it was all my fault that we couldn’t be together because I put things in print (although only to him) that might put him in jail. All he cared about was whether he would go to jail–narc in his full glory.

    • rockstarwife, I learned shortly after the assholean ex filed (to get the jump on me) that the IRS was once again coming after him. This was a longstanding battle. He would cheat on taxes and then would bully the agents who asked him to prove what he claimed. Then he’d pay pennies on what he owed and declare victory. Two years later, same thing. Every two years. He figured out that they won’t hit you two years in a row, so the years in between were the Wild West for him. To shorten a long story, I refused to have any liability for his tax fraud and offered that if he expected me to shoulder the burden of his unpaid taxes I would hang him out to dry.

      • WOW!! This assholitis is just an EPIDEMIC isn’t it lol??? They ALL seem to just have such similar patterns. I won’t blast mine’s IRS issues on here, or legal issues… but they are PLENTY!! Not only to they have a problem with honesty…. accountability and consequences just doesn’t seem to be in their vocabulary at all.

        • Hey, rules are for fools, dont’cha know????

          Just love it when real life consequences hit these people! Never thought I’d say ‘GO IRS!!!’

          • I was required by the settlement agreement to pay half of any tax deficiencies, but they all, and always had to do with the shit for brains’ Schedule C, which had nothing to do with me. I always paid my part, no problem. Shit for Brains loved, loved, loved to fuck the IRS. If I’d had the opportunity, I would have sunk his stupid ass in a deep place with those people. Just being married to him was jeopardizing my livelihood.

            • Technically we never married (thank God) and were perpetually engaged… I met a recently divorced chump that said “BE THANKFUL you never married him and they can’t pin any of that shit on you!!!” She said they showed up at her door and arrested her because of her ex cheater shitforbrains IRS problems. NO thanks!!

      • Found out through the discovery process that STBXW hasn’t been declaring thousands of dollars of income. Not much I can do about that — she’s an accountant and did my taxes too. I know that the income part is good on mine, but I really don’t know what she claimed for expenses (I run my own business). If I don’t want to be audited I just need to let her get away with her tax fraud. Frustrating.

  • After DDay 1 I spent two days being “nice”, was nice to OW, called up to say I loved him, agreed he could meet up with OW to say goodbye – they actually fucked in a field, listened to how he had deep feelings for her and that he wanted to go on playing squash with her, a second goodbye meeting where he came home bleating that he was giving up ” so much” for me…WTF.
    When I finally let rip I was told that I was now showing my true colours!!! Not NICE Mary.

    • There’s nothing better than a bleating cheating self serving asswipe, is there?

      Mine bleated this memorable utterance in response to my pointing out his lack of manly honor and faithfulness—-

      ‘Teach me how to be a maaaannnnnnn’ (Imagine that as an innocent little lamb’s bleat for it’s mama)

      I thought my head would pop off with that one. Sorry, that’s not my job.

      • Heatthecurb, your asswipe’s “Teach me how to be a maaaannnnnn” sounds a lot like my asswipe’s “I’ll always be that scared little boy, sitting at the bottom of the stairs while my parents fought.” I guess that’s why he feel for Schmoopie, who has two little kids. Wonder if they like their big brother.

        • Karma Express, my Ex said “I’ll always be the ugly stepchild,” to express his jealousy of my children from my first marriage. Oops, I never wanted to be his mommy.

          • Well, at least he got the ‘ugly’ part right.

            Sorry, Muse. I couldn’t help myself. I loathe your ex and what he did to you.

  • The fucking isn’t the issue, for me. The utter betrayal, again, is the issue… that there is an again at all.

      • Agreed Scott, because the fucking may not be an issue now and I understand the betrayal is the issue for you, again, but what would you do if you found out he gave you an incurable diseases like HIV? Just think about..

  • I’m with you insistonhonesty…. I was FURIOUS and fighting over the emotional affair before the fucking began to commence!! (Well, this time anyway, never proved anything previously).

  • I believe that Narc’s have an “aversion” to what they consider “negativity” and what WE Chumps call “honesty”. I NEVER once in the history of “us” ever called him a POS (not out loud anyway) and ANY time I called him out on any inappropriate behavior, situation or ANY thing he might not have done right (can’t say WRONG) his response was always “you just tell me what a piece of shit I am!” Really? Maaaaaaaybe deep down he just knows the truth?? HE never got it… yes people get pissed and get over it and NORMAL people don’t think they are “unloved” because they aren’t fed kibbles and pleasantries NON-STOP. They TRULY have a reality glitch. WTF?

    • Yes, this right here. If I called him out on anything, he would simply say “I’m a terrible person”… which of course would compel me to console him, imagine that.

      Now I would just say “yes, yes you are” which is probably why he can’t leave me alone now – impression management.

  • I got an email from the ex after we were divorced telling me he hoped someday “I would stop being angry at him and that if that happened maybe we could be friends in the future”. (which he spelled as furfure) Because lots of exes are “friends and do stuff for each other” (in all his extensive research) Anyway, he also added this jewel: “We aren’t on the same page for some reason I just can’t understand”

    Since I work in a cubicle I had to cover my mouth to keep from laughing too loudly. When you put that though the universal bullshit translator it comes out to: We can’t be friends now because you won’t give me kibbles and let me exploit your chumpiness therefore we aren’t on the same page. Maybe in the furfure when you start dispensing those kibbles again, we can be friends.”

    Um dude? Who was asking you to be friends? Total. Loser!

  • I always thought in my chumpiness that somehow we could end up being friends. I think he did too. I can’t speak for him, but I LOVE being as far away from him as I can possibly be… I am so surprised how much I love it… in the end it is pretty hard to be friends with someone, you dont’ want to be near.

    • I did too. Until it came to what he did. It’s one thing to leave a relationship respectfully but that is not what anybody’s ex here did.

  • Geez, this one really hits home. Over a period of many months, my ex just started disengaging. Weirdest thing ever. Now I realize that it happened gradually, but to me at the time, it felt like all of a sudden he just wasn’t there. You know? The lights are on, but nobody was home. One of the major issues we had (and there were many) was his porn consumption, which was extreme to say the least. It had him up multiple times in the middle of the night taking his laptop into the bathroom with him, getting up extremely early, going to bed at a different time from me, etc. etc. And there were many times he just went ahead and enjoyed himself right in front of me when he thought I was sleeping, though I’ve slept with one eye open ever since I was a kid (very abusive childhood). Even this I now question, as I wonder if him doing this less than 6 feet away from our bed was actually a giant FU to me, since he knew full well I’m a chronic insomniac. It was just the worst–he had totally cut me off physically except for all but the most perfunctory contact, and then I’d wake up in the middle of the night, and there he’d be in the glow of the computer screen, giving all his intimacy away to images I’m still trying to erase from my memory. What are you supposed to do or say in that moment? It felt so fucking painful and degrading and disrespectful and humiliating! Whenever I tried to broach the subject, he’d get all angry like it was somehow MY fault, even though we’d always had a very active sex life prior, and he certainly wasn’t being deprived. He’d say he had no idea what I was talking about and add things like, “When you’re in a good mood, things are great, but every few weeks you create drama about stuff that isn’t happening. I don’t know if it’s your jealousy, your insecurity, or your ‘woman’s intuition.'” (I found out later he was in the middle of a huge EA/PA at the time of this utterance) Yes, he would actually tell me I hadn’t actually seen what I’d seen, then I’d start feeling like the room had gone all sideways, the way you do when you’re being gaslit. I’d actually start wondering if maybe I was really losing it after all!

    Of course, then D-day hit, and I got all the proof I’ll ever need and then some. The porn was pretty much a smokescreen for all the other shit that was going on, and thank God I got out soon after that. But of all the things I’ve been pissed off about, it’s this blameshifting and gaslighting that still can take me from 0 to f*ing incensed in about 10 seconds flat, even now. Taking away someone’s reality–that’s the WORST kind of theft. A few days ago I saw this poster on Psychopath Free, and it said, “Anyone who calls you ‘jealous’ [or insecure, or WTFever] when they’re cheating on you is toxic, manipulative, abusive and personality disordered.” When I read that, I thought A to the f*ing MEN.

    • Sounds familiar. Porn is a cheater’s crutch, why engage with a real live woman… there are studies on this and the disengaged. I am no prude and I think a little spice between consenting adults is okay but Cheaters only please themselves. Affairs and sketchy behavior go hand in hand. I would hazard a guess that real men don’t substitute porn for a meaningful relationship with their wives. The hottest thing about making love to a real man is the fact that he recognizes you are there! For cheaters you are just a thing to use to please them.

  • I am surprised that I completely agree with you ringinonmyownbell! I truly never believed I could stand not talking with or seeing xmr…but…yes…reading your post I just realized that I actually do not ever want to even hear his voice again ever!!! 🙂 YA!

    …everything you guys post about your narcs is my narc to a T…except…my narc wouldn’t talk to me or answer me if I talked to him…he would only meow at me…for over a year…if he wasn’t yelling or screaming at me he would just meow at me…is that pathological or what???!!!! Did any of you get that treatment?

    • Uh, crazy. No, my ex goes on and on about how much better I am handling interacting with the happy couple. NC is definitely the only way to go. Kids or not.

    • I’m with Drew. Sounds like your ex is either autistic/on the spectrum or just batshit crazy. Man, I honestly do not know how I could stand a whole year of meowed responses. That had to have been hell to live with! Wow! ((hugs))

  • “I had to lie to you because every time I told you the truth about anything, you got mad and used it against me later.” Examples of “truth” — 1) the time he made out with another girl at a party and came back to show me how to improve my kissing so it would be more like hers; 2) the time he said he preferred talking to teen girls because he could help them with their problems, but my problems were too complex, and I didn’t want his help anyway; 3) the time he told me, for no apparent reason, that he was attracted to his (also married) female friend. Yep…I got mad when he told me the truth…because his “truth” was inherently infuriating. Oh well.

    • Yes, I got this too…. Pant, pant, “I think she’s…[really hot]…and I just want to explore… life!” In other words, “what she’s like in bed” because “I just want to be happy!” And be responsible for absofuckinglutely no one but “ME, cause I’ve always been a loner.” This after his little mistake, our 28 years together.

    • “I had to lie to you because every time I told you the truth about anything, you got mad and used it against me later.” ‘
      I love this and lived this, Chchchchanges!
      This happened just tonight. I have moved out with the three kids for the last two weeks, finding a moderately decent rental house. Soon to be X says that he never really loved me-he loved the mistress-and he only told me he loved me because I would have used it against him. So basically, he loved her before we got married, during our marriage, and will love her forever. Problem is that she is still married and because of the financial constraints of the divorce, he’s worried she won’t want him back because he’s broke. And that’s my problem???

  • I can relate to this, Drew (Feb 18 12.25)
    “My ex could never just spend time at home, he was always off doing something. I think he was so uncomfortable in his own skin that he couldn’t be still. He couldn’t relax or just spend time with family and looking back I don’t think we had one real conversation, liars have so many secrets. Evasive as fuck. ”

    I realise now that I never knew my exH because he was never there! He was a shift-worker when I met him and when I asked him to change to days (so we could have some time together) he spent 12 hours at day at work. He’d come home, have a meal and then fall asleep for a couple of hours. Then he’d come to bed when I was asleep and leave at 5.00am to go to work. Naturally he would spend most of the w/e in bed “because he was tired” – so that got him out of all the household tasks.

    Oh boy, has this blog opened my eyes and changed my viewpoint ! I’m even starting to feel a bit sorry for his Schnoopie now….

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