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Tiger Woods Cheated Again, Surprise!

tigerWell, I guess that sex addiction therapy voodoo just didn’t work on Tiger Woods. Surprise, surprise… he cheated on Lindsey Vonn.

When they broke up the other week, they each attributed the split to their busy work schedules. By which Tiger meant “my wandering dick.”

But really, Lindsey, what kind of special Olympic snowflake do you think you are? The guy copped to 120 affairs on his ex-wife. Either you believe you are so incredibly super to keep this guy faithful, or you put your stock in the transformative powers of sex addiction rehab.

pinegroveSeriously, Lindsey — did you see the place he graduated from? Pine Grove sex addiction academy in Hattiesburg, Mississippi. An institution so esteemed it’s located in a strip mall. I wouldn’t trust a strip mall in Hattiesburg, Mississippi to clean my teeth. You think they perform character transplants there? More likely, they’re trafficking in stolen kidneys, but whatever. I’m just saying it was really dumb to date this guy, Lindsey. Look at you, you’re a blonde Teutonic goddess. An Olympian. I think you can do better than Mr. Cheater Golfpants.

Anyway, the Daily Mail reports the tawdry details.

‘He withdrew from Farmers. You have to understand, while it’s not right, it’s not really wrong either. Tiger isn’t married. He doesn’t really drink or do drugs. So what else does he have when he can’t afford to lose again? He is allowed to find some relief.

‘Most men would drink over such losses.Tiger has sex over it. Usually with local hookers whom he pays exorbitant amounts to, probably so they will want repeat business and won’t tell.’

Michelle Braun, a former Hollywood madame revealed that between 2006 and 2007 Tiger paid upwards of $40,000 for six ‘pay-for-sex dates.’

But this time he was spotted with the woman.

‘When Tiger realized he was seen, he became concerned and eventually he decided to confess to Lindsey. Something he didn’t do with Elin. He came clean and I give him credit for that.

‘Yes, Tiger cheated again. But it wasn’t with anyone special. He really wanted Lindsey to be the one. But he blew it again. He can’t help himself. He’s got an addiction. He relapsed,’ says the friend.

‘Knowing Tiger, he doesn’t even see it as cheating because there’s no romance or feeling there. It’s just a stress reliever, like a high-ball or two after a bad day.’

The friend tells Daily Mail Online that despite pleas from peers and relatives to keep going to his self-mandated therapy sessions, Tiger stopped going completely — leading to the alleged ‘one-time slip’.

I have so many questions. What are “self-mandated” therapy sessions? A mandate is an official order from an authority. So, if the authority is you, what exactly are the consequences?

“Tiger, for failing to go to your sex addiction voodoo appointments, I mandate that you fuck this Pancake House hostess.”

“Okay, your Honor. It’s a stiff penalty (I pun!), but I will humbly comply with your order.”

And so long as you don’t feel anything about them, people are equivalent to cocktails? What the fuck? Drawn to its logical conclusion, I can behead Mormons. “Well, you know, I didn’t have any feelings for the Mormons. It wasn’t a personal thing. I just needed to blow off some steam, so I beheaded some Mormons. It was a one-time slip.”

Poor Tiger Woods. His golf game isn’t what it used to be. His Olympian girlfriend dumped him. No one wants his endorsement on anything. (Try the pancake houses, Tiger!)

I’m sure for the right price, the strip malls of Hattiesburg, Miss will find a cure.

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  • Loser. Total and complete loser. Kudos to Lindsey for dropping him like the bad habit he is.

    • Ms. Vonn is not a very nice person if you read about her. She dumped her husband. She just got tired of him. She herself said nothing bad happened, she was just unhappy. That’s the same excuse cheaters use for cheating. They say they are unhappy or bored and then the cheat. Von filed for divorce, but still broke her promise of ’till death do us part only because she was unhappy. I think Vonn and Tiger were two peas in a pod. They just acted out in different ways.

      • It’s not analogous. If you’re unhappy and you divorce? GOOD. That’s honest. It’s far better than eating cake and cheating on someone, continuing to extract value from them for years and risk their health.

        I’m not anti-divorce here. No one wants a divorce. This whole la-di-da oh, I think I’ll go get a divorce for shits and giggles is a myth.

        • I was referring to Karen E speaking of broken promises. A wedding vow is a promise.

          To leave because you are unhappy, wah wah, is not a good reason and it’s the same reason cheaters use to cheat. That is what is analogous.

          people think marriages are too disposable. If a person doesn’t take the vow serious enough to work through unhappiness then maybe they deserve someone like Tiger woods. Saying I’m depressed so I want a divorce is not different than saying I’m depresses so I deserve an affair.

          I say the karma stick hit Ms. Vonn. She deserves it. Read about her. She is not angel.

  • I was actually reading about Elin recently, admiring her coming back from all that pain and finishing her studies. Reading about Lindsey Vonn, her self-described “depression” and subsequent abandonment of her marriage, made me think she deserved Tiger. Who would have thought this might happen? So predictable.

    • It never ceases to amaze me that women think that a cheater is somehow not going to cheat on them. A cheater, at best, is a disordered, dishonest person. Someone fucked up in the head on so many levels. Why would you put your BETS on such a person? Sneak around with them, break up their families, cause untold amounts of pain and suffering.. in your spouse, kids, extended family….. how could you be a PART of such a thing? I think the OW/OM have to be severely disordered themselves, if they are aware there is a spouse (I know sometimes they lie). Mine KNOWS me… she KNOWS what she’s doing. I guess she really thinks she’s special and their wuv is different. Good luck sister… LOL.. you don’t know him like I do!

      • Wow…well put newchumpatl!!! You are so right…..mine left me for the OW and according to him, “the love of his life!” Funny that they both cheated on their partners so they could be together. So….the relationship is based on just sex??? That’s gonna last a long time….you are right. They ARE “severely disordered!” And yes, think again….do they really think they are special?? Ha!!! Actually, they probably deserve each other….I can’t wait to see who will cheat on whom first!!

        • Jules,

          .”I can’t wait to see who will cheat on whom first!!” My ex is no loner with the OWhore (surpise, surprise) & is engaged to someone else. I know nothing of this woman but let the cheating begin. I’m sure his is in luv but once the newness wears off, look out

      • Yep, same here. The Downgrade was a family member, married at the time….but it’s twu wuv, so traumatizing the kids and emptying their college funds for booze and coke is perfectly okay. Such a great couple….

        That low rumble we hear is the engine of the Karma Bus.

        love to all Chump Nation,
        x-Meh.

      • Yes, Newchumpatl! When I first heard that she was even “with” Tiger after the world found out about his disgusting habits, it floored me that any female would WILLINGLY lie down with that boy-whore. Really??? You’re mighty, an Olympian even, but THAT’S the best you can find?? Out of billions of men that are available on your world-wide tours, THAT’S the best you can do for yourself?? Insane!!

        All that happened prior to my DDay, and I always admired how Elin bashed his crap in with his own golf club, then made him leave with millionnnnnns. What a douchebag. Doesn’t matter what he’s “worth” financially. Someone like that, who has zero integrity or self respect, isn’t “worth” much.

        • No excuse for the physical assault on him. He is a NPD to the max.
          I went on one date with Lindsey’s mom, years ago, and also a few with her aunt. Both lovely women. I was in the same firm as her dad about 28 years ago, too.
          Her mom told me that Lindsey’s dad cheated a lot. Wonder what her mom thought of Tiger.
          Is anyone , really surprised by this?

          • Sorry, Arnold, but just like in some states where it’s a “crime of the heart” where people kill when they walk in on their spouses screwing others, or in on their child being sexually abused, same thing. When she learned her physical & sexual health just went down the drain after bein exposed to 19 whores who’ve screwed the world, because of a selfish entitled asswipe “spouse,” some bashing is in order. The risk he dumped on her was much worse. We’re not talking a few indiscretions. He screwed 19 whores countless times. I’d hand her the Big Bertha driver anytime. #sorrynotsorry

            • I read a book called The Unwritten Law (I think)/ Lady’s husband was screwing around with a singer/entertainer type. Buying expensive gifts, trips, etc. Wife found out they were going on a train, she got on there, and shot OW in the head. I think she was found not guilty, and continued being married to the creep. It was set in a time long ago. Wish I could remember more.

              • Opps – my bad, Chumps. I was wrong on the amount of whores Tiger fucked while married to poor Elin – you know, the ACTUAL victim. The total number of whores (the first time he was busted) was 120. That’s 120 times however many times those hoes can go when the high-dollar whore like Tiger pays up.

                Reality? Elin bashed him in the wrong head.

                Just sayin’.

              • I’m a firm believer that rage is a 100% appropriate response to injustice… sometimes people deserve the bitch slap. But murder? Well, temp insanity I’m sure, and empathize with the depth of pain and shock. It can make anyone temporarily out of their right mind.

              • She shot the wrong person ….it should have been the person who deceived her………period….the other person is irrelevant in that…that could be Mary Joe Helen….doesnt matter the fact that your spouse is a narc sociopath psycho …..is what matters….put the blame where it belongs….as the say goes……..to THY OWN SELF BE TRUE……..don’t ever lie to yourself….the deceiver is your problem

            • Yeah, things were a lot different back then. Now, it may mitigate things a bit , say manslaughter vs murder, but almost no one would get off Scott free. I think many of us had a situation similar to Elin’s. I know I did, multiple affair partners, young kids, etc. But, If I hit my XW in the head with a club, I’d do time ( and, more importantly, might damage the club).

            • The child being sexually abused deal would be different as one would have the availability of a defense of others argument ( provided it was still going on). Might also get some type of temp insanity defense going.

      • I was incredulous that anyone could work up enough denial to attempt a relationship with him. He should get a tattoo on his forehead “whores only”

  • No surprise, of course. I will say this in Lindsey’s defense: As someone who married a serial cheater in his former marriage, these guys can be really convincing that you are “special” and thus they won’t cheat on you. Until they do.

    • Tempest, after the ex’s first affair, I stayed because I thought since he confessed, he was really remorseful and would never do it again. Huh. We now all know how that ended. They never truly change. My therapist told me that the only way cheater would change is if he willingly underwent intensive and extensive therapy or if he underwent supernatural transformation. Neither has happened so my past will be his OWife’s future (as one chump here aptly described).

      • Uniquelyme–and of course, as chumps, the desire to “save” someone from themselves is overwhelming. What? He shows a conscience (fake, of course) about acts from his current/former marriage? I can HELP him be a better person through love and understanding.

        But all love and understanding does is reinforce their crappy behavior. You’re so right–it would require supernatural transformation for them to change. They won’t willingly undergo extensive therapy because they love themselves the way they are–it’s other people who are flawed.

      • No, no you have it wrong!!! All wrong!!! He feels so bad he hasn’t slept for 3 nights in a ROW!!! He’s just so upset he can’t PLAY golf!!! His guilt is eating him up. This isn’t who he wants to be. He’s changed. He’s not a bad guy, he just makes bad choices,….. but after all he is a man and well men have needs and oh fuck it—HE’S A DIRTY, CHEATING, LOSER, HORN DOG!!!!

        • He has tons of money and tons of fame. There’s hundreds of women standing in line to take her place. Sad but he’s going to end up with what he’s been asking for. Someone he can have casual sex with and move on. The best money can buy. His Dad must be spinning in his grave!!!

              • I don’t know why people always act like only whites can be racist. Plenty of blacks are racist and hate whites. It works both ways.

      • My favorite (and bright flashing RUN signal) were when cheater pants didn’t apologize but 1) wanted to renew vows after being found out 4 yrs ago and 2) non practicing Catholic that he is wanted “to pray that he could save our marriage 2 years ago. Never had the cojones to confess and never was remorseful.

      • The only way they can change for the better is after they die – then they can finally give back instead of always taking.
        Maybe cheaters should be planted into those biodegradable urns that turn into a tree when planted, to try to balance things out a little bit!

        • and you could harvest their organs (at least the ones not riddled with hepatitis and other nasty stuff).

    • Well, a normal person might think Tiger Woods would see the error of his ways after the giant, life-changing events that destroyed his family, career and reputation. So he does what all disordered people do, put on the mask and con the world into thinking he’s fixed his problem. Vonn is amazing athlete, but like many women functioning at a high level in a man’s world, she has a very small pool of me to draw from, as being “a blonde Teutonic goddess. An Olympian” is not necessarily a turn on for men whose lives and career are more ordinary. And of course, she is still young and may still believe that she could love him enough and “help him” change.

      Everyone reading on this board has fallen for a similar con. Just sayin’. 🙂

  • What bothers me is that Tiger probably got a total ego bump by dating Vonn since she’s as you said “a blonde Teutonic goddess. An Olympian”. Gross. I hate to think he was validated in any way.

    • The really interesting thing will be to see who he’s able to snag next. I mean, are there any “quality” women out there willing to give the Tiger a shot? I see only two prospects for his future:
      1. (Most likely) He publically ends up with a string of hooker girlfriends
      2. Tori Spelling. It just makes sense.

  • Brilliant post, Chump Lady! He is a “poster child” for disordered sociopathic serial cheating. I especially like the paradigm posed by the anonymous informant: “while it’s not right, it’s not really wrong either. Tiger isn’t married.” I’m still wondering what “really wrong” is compared to “not really wrong.” I guess the implication is that *because* he wasn’t married to Lindsay, it was not as bad as what he did to Elin. As an unmarried chump, who was also cheated on by the man I was previously married to, let me assure you that being lied to and betrayed feels just the same, unmarried.

      • Sorry but Lindsay “knew” what she was getting herself into. Trust me Tiger Woods is not heartbroken, just as he was not when he destroyed Elin and his kids. He is addicted to his penis at any cost! Reminds me of Wilt Chamberlain (Globetrotter) who claimed to have had sex with over 20,000 women. Yuk!! He never married and died at 63, NOT being married did not make this behavior acceptable. Reap & Sow, Karma, early death. Same goes for TW, not being married now does not make it OK to practice infidelity. IMHO

    • I wasn’t married to my cheater, but that didn’t make it any less traumatic. We had been together for years (the last good ones I had being in my 50’s and all) in what I thought was a monogamous, committed relationship.

      But I have to hand it to ole Tiger….if you’re gonna cheat, surround yourself with friends who can justify the unjustifiable just as easily as you can.

  • As long as these so called experts on “sex addiction” , which is a euphemism for abuser, are allowed to practice their voodoo then partners will continue to get fucked (not literally, only hookers get fucked literally). And we can poke fun at the Hattiesburg facility but Google what this place charges. It’s upwards of 20 thousand. CSATS are snake oil salesmen. They are preying on traumatized women who are deperate for help and willing to pay anything for hope (unicorn sightings). They also supply the best excuse EVER for cheaters… “I can’t help it. I was sick!!”…

    Also notice that most every CSAT is a “recovering sex addict” themselves. What a bunch of shit. I should start counseling people that like pasta. We could sit and talk about pasta all day for 100$ an hour. I could set up a “facility” (my neighbor has a storage shed she isn’t using) and have intensive treatments for pasta addicts. After I made my money off the poor suckers we could meat at Olive Garden and toast our success (oops, I meant “slips”).

    • Yes, and just as fucked up is pasta codependants anon, which points the finger at the pasta addicts spouse, and tells her that her recovery depends on her willingness to identify her problems and weaknesses, and how she contributed to the pasta addicts problems by her enabling, and controlling behavior. Even though, She hasn’t made a mac and cheese in years, and would never tempt the addict with an authentic italian spaghett.

  • I think it’s easy to think we’ll be the one to love someone enough to overcome their past. To believe that someone has changed, that we’re special. I wanted to believe it, so I did.

    I thought I was in my first relationship where I wasn’t trying to rescue someone. After she ran off, I realized I had thought if I loved her enough, or in the “right way”, she’d feel safe and her reasons for her prior behaviors wouldn’t apply. Not so much. I didn’t even have being an Olympian goddess going for me, so what chance did I have? Lesson learned.

    • I think it’s normal to assume that the person’s ‘issue’ is a result of outside influences. We can love them right, better, more….that will fix them. We understand too late that their shortcomings have to do with being character disordered. External influences have nothing to do with it. But…..you have to learn it first. It’s a lesson I’ll never forget though.

  • WTF was Lindsey Vonn thinking anyway? She’s young, beautiful and rich, can choose among a billion men and she chooses….Tiger Woods? Even if she truly thought he had changed, the guy’s basically a punchline these days. A national embarrassment.
    Hey Lindsey, I hear Charlie Sheen’s available.

  • I think Lindsey was in it for the boost to her profile. I mean, come on, there’s no chance in hell she didn’t think he would cheat. All I feel sorry for is his kids, who once again see their father following his own dick around.

  • Nothing like a “reformed” cheater counselling, mentoring, etc a cheater. I never want to be hard in judging people, but ONCE A CHEATER ALWAYS A CHEATER. What gets me are women who think they will be different. Right……

    • The Chump Lady schooled me on this (so I know it’s right;-) I don’t think that “once a cheater, always a cheater.” I mean, I know a few people who ruined their relationships by cheating. The relationship they were in ended and, after time, self reflection, true guilt and therapy, went on to new and different relationships (NOT with OP’s) where they managed to behave like human beings and not cheat (not so far, anyway). The thing about a guy like Tiger (and my STBX) is that we’re not talking about AN AFFAIR here. I mean, (to quote a favorite movie) “the guy was banging cocktail waitresses, two at a time”! He didn’t “just cheat.” He took it to a whole new level… The Disorded Zone.

  • I dont really blame Lindsey Vonn for thinking that the load of consequences that got dropped on Tiger Woods might have convinced him that cheating is a bad idea. The man lost his wife, lost his family, lost like a billion dollars, lost his endorsements and became a national joke. And for what? A little strange? Anyone with an iota of rationality or common sense would have LEARNED from this experience. Im betting that Lindsey thought his protestations that he would never cheat again were true, because for anyone without a major character disorder it would be true. Just obviously not worth it.
    The lesson here is that these disordered cheaters DONT learn their lesson. There are no consequences great enough to convince them not to do just whatever they want to do at any moment. There is no convincing them, there is no rationality, and there is nothing that they wouldnt risk losing. It appears hthat, like the rest of us chumps that Lindsey Vonn learned that the hard way.

    • I get your point, and I hate to see anyone chumped. But I think it’s a pretty logical to conclude that Tiger Woods is disordered or he would not have cheated with such gusto. I mean, the sheer number of affairs, hook-ups, etc. is staggering. He had everything at stake and risked it all. Yes, we expect people to learn from consequences. But I think it’s a different kind of chumpdom to date someone who is (was) a professed cheater. Especially such a prolific one. We get some red flags, but that’s a pretty ginormous one to ignore.

      • But you know what’s sad? I bet there will be another girlfriend coming along who will believe Tiger will be different for her.

        • And let’s notforget Anthony Weiner/Wiener? He lost his job, was public ally humiliated, stayed at home to babysit …. And did it again!

        • Of course there will be another girlfriend coming along. There is always someone who either wants 15 minutes (or more) of fame, a boost in their own profile or who are disordered enough to believe that they are the “special” one with just the right amount of sparkle and magic to”change” him. If this wasn’t the case, men convicted of murder and in prison wouldn’t get fan letters and sometimes marry women on the “outside.” I mean seriously, dating someone with Tiger’s reputation and expecting fidelity is liking looking through the garbage to find something to cook for dinner.

          There isn’t enough bleach to dip him in and not enough therapists to treat him to make me believe that someone like Tiger Woods would be a safe bet for any type of relationship. I wouldn’t trust him to clean my toilet let alone trust him in an intimate relationship.

          • .,,,,like the little kid who was shoveling through a pile of shit, because someone told him there was a pony in there, some where.

          • Chump Princess – not only are your words true – but highly entertaining. I snickered all the way through. And it’s a great analogy. Honestly, thinking of looking through the garbage to find something to cook for dinner is helpful for me to think of when I’m feeling nostalgic about my cheater. I have to keep images like these at the forefront, lest I start pining for him again.

          • As I said above, Tiger’s a cheater. He will look for a Chump. We’ve all been there. And sadly, we learn from the horrendous experience of betrayal.

            • You do tend to believe the lies they tell you about how they’ve reformed. I mean, you hear about these really slow learners, but you never really think you’re talking to one. Then you get chumped, and you see it and then you know differently.

              I bet most of the people out there are surprised he’d do it again after the high profile beating he took the first time. The general public can’t conceive of that level of disordered.

              • There are chumps here struggling right now about whether to believe a cheating spouse who swears to have reformed. If spotting the difference between someone who made mistakes and learned from them and someone who is a disordered serial cheater was easy, I wouldn’t have been a Chump. Jackass said all the right things. I was “In love” and all the red flags looked like laundry hanging on the line to me…

          • “There is always someone who either wants 15 minutes (or more) of fame”

            Or a spread in Vanity Fair. Can we please stop rewarding these owhores?

        • There are so many OW out there so desperate and willing to believe they are so “special”. Yet the’re lacking both in the integrity and intelligence department to maintain healthy relationships with anyone normal. What is worse, whoring up with married men or dating someone with a reputation of serial cheating? There’s nothing special about fucking someone without intimacy, neither one is going into the situation as a naive faultless honorable person. They are all entitled to the outcome of their sick selfish needs.

        • Tempest would know better about this, but from what I’ve read, kids often re-play a family dynamic to try to get a better outcome. Been there, done that myself. I’ve read some psychology on this, but will let others more learned on that score explain how it works.

          • We seek what is familiar at an implicit level. I’m sure her father being a cheater played into this dynamic.

            For example, I deliberately sought out someone on the surface who was the diametric opposite of my father. Father was smart but coarse, uncultured & rude, very masculine & chauvinistic; I married a Ph.D.-carrying Englishman with an Oxford accent, knowledge of fine burgundies, excellent clothes sense, who ran in international circles. At heart–both narcissistic cheaters obsessed with sex, lacking empathy, impulse control, or boundaries.

            • Tempest, my father was a narcissist and I was determined to marry a kind loving spouse. Thirty six years later I was told he was a narcissist by my therapist. How did this happen to someone who swayed so far away from those qualities in a relationship? I never recognized the similarities until last year. Narcissists package themselves with so many masks the outside looks wonderful. Underneath the layers they are remarkably the same. This is very difficult for their victims when the truth surfaces. There were so many red flags mainly how he treated others. Their actions define them and when we finally see them with the mask off the pain is unbearable. They are attracted to the kind, loving, tolerant, selfless, forgiving spouses. They feed off our goodness and discard us when it suits their needs. Having experienced this firsthand it is difficult to imagine unless you lived the lie. This is why I forgive myself. Thank you Tempest for all your insights and support.

            • Tempest and Donna, I was determined not to end up with anyone anything like my father, and was so sure I succeeded in that goal. Stbx is a different race, religion, from a different socio-economic demographic, has much more education, etc. On the outside father and stbx couldn’t be more different, and yet as I’ve looked back over my marriage I see that they are absolutely the same.

    • Perhaps he played on her sympathy, the “poor me, I’ve lost so much, I’ve finally learned my lesson.” Maybe she thought she could rescue him, care for him enough to make him change his ways. I say Tiger should stick with paying for sex and forget having real relationships. It’s funny how the writer of this article compared his use of women to a simple stress relief, similar to an alcoholic drink. I see Tiger as a Molotov cocktail. He blows up the life of women who take him seriously.

  • Nice post CL.
    I think the best thing about advertising the serial/relapsed cheaters is the it demonstrates to the chumps that once a cheaters, (virtually) always a cheater. Put down that Hopium pipe.

    • I continue to believe that people who cheat are not doomed to always be cheaters. But I imagine transforming your character and giving up entitlement is extremely difficult. And yeah, the flamingly disordered generally stay that way. I just don’t think a quick spate in the “sex addict” clinic is going to fix it.

      I think TW has a similar issue to my ex. “I like being a narcissist!”

      It’s like corporations who break anti-trust laws and get a slap on the wrist. They pay the millions, but they can afford to. It’s the price of doing business. They’d prefer to not get busted, but there really aren’t sufficient consequences.

      If you lack the ability to connect, if you don’t really CARE about hurting your kids, or your girlfriend, if you LIKE being a narcissist, penalties don’t register. Sure, TW has lost a lot — he still also has a shit ton left. And he’s still a professional golfer and he’s still able to get laid. I don’t think he’s too broken up about the split. Or even mortified.

      • I actually agree, not everyone will cheat again, which is why I said virtually. But the cheaters have to acknowledge what they did, not blame the partner, etc, and most cannot do that.

          • Maybe some cheaters grow out of it, get too old and tired, take up gardening or just find that the offers dry up. Some discover religion and renounce their cheating ways. Maybe the occasional one even meets their match – a partner whom they want to be faithful to or, more likely, gives no scope for their old ways.
            I believe anyone who has cheated with more than one AP or on more than one ex or for a prolonged period is unlikely to transform into a faithful husband/wife. Its what they do – they will be fine for a while but at some point the temptation will present, the circumstances will be right, things will not be great at home and history will repeat. The best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour.

            • I take a pass on hopium for any cheater regardless of remorse. I ask myself what excuse is acceptable. I can’t think of one. If someone is young and immature perhaps with time they can develop their character and truly recognize the difference between right and wrong. Cheating changed me and my entire life. Knowing I will never forgive the cheater who had multiple opportunities to get help lead an honest life has opened my eyes to pathological liars, narcissusts, and the personality disordered. The old me was selfless and forgiving. I passed the hopium pipe to the whores he still cons. Believing a cheater changes for the OWhore is the fairy tale cheaters use to convince them to fuck. They don’t change. They are assholes.

              • I’ve Never seen remorse from my cheater’s serial cheating father. He prances into other relationships like he’s Teflon.

                I think he’s entering his 6-7 marriage at 79yrs. He’s a complete grifter. His new chump is my age, 48, a nurse and has her own $. They are buying a house, getting hitched and he’s got a live in care giver. And yes, he still is sexually active. It’s truely a miracle he doesn’t have HIV or Hep. The other stuff, I have no clue.

                Point is, if you are truely disordered vs a complete selfish fucker, remorse or regret never crosses your mind. There is back tracking kibbles and cake with family members, especially with their kids. But that is mainly to guilt out a relationship with them so SOMEONE will visit you in your 90’s.

        • A murderer, a rapist and an adulterer will always be just that. It’s something you can’t undo! Even if they never do it again they are still just that.
          Normal people don’t do these awful things because they understand.

      • He was a very talented child. He was on television with his father at age 3 already showing signs of his golfing genius. I do not know where his mother was during all of this. If you read about his father’s behavior you will understand how Tiger got to be so disordered His father left a family and married Tigers mother. He was already being revered as a very young child. I would imagine he had to live by a strict set of rules on one hand and being over indulged on the other. However it came about I wonder if he has the ability to truly connect to other people. Addiction still is hard for me to get my mind around. He needs to be honest with women and tell them he is never going to be trustworthy. I would imagine there will be plenty more lining up. Disorders are not just for men. The sad thing is all those golf announcers who still drone on and on about him. The guy is aging out as a first class golfer. The best thing he could do is go away. Why are he and the Kardashians in the news? In ENGLAND!

        • Let go, I was going to say the same thing. His father essentially raised him to be a narcissist.

      • “I think TW has a similar issue to my ex. “I like being a narcissist!”

        Just like my ex, “I love the way I am. I would never want to change.” I think my ex might be one of the few who cheated more than Tiger Woods.

      • There wouldn’t be a problem with Tiger and his wandering penis if he never got married. Though I’m a die hard Red Sox fan, it was hard not respect Derek Jeter’s game even if he did play for the “evil empire.”

        He was/is also a terminal bachelor. I don’t know if he had a major hooker habit but he had several girlfriends and NO ONE cared because he was single. I guess I don’t understand why all athletes/performers just don’t stay single like he did. No one cares about your sex life if you don’t get married and pretend to be a faithful wife/husband.

        It really is that simple!

  • “I was driven to screwing someone else by my unrecognized disorder, that I self-diagnosed.” It’s such a compelling defense! 😀

    It’s ridiculously easy to test positively as a sex addict: Three staff at IHG took the test and all scored positively as sex addicts. And not borderline-maybe-kinda-sorta-ish scores – no, these were definitive, waaaaaaay above the ‘maybe’ score. None of us who took the test have any sexual pathology whatsoever. Surprise! 😀

    Let’s ignore that there a very lucrative industry is now in place to treat (and profit from said treatment) sex addicts that were ‘diagnosed’ by a test that is written with specific bias towards diagnosing people, and therefore providing an ever-available pool of treatment candidates.

    Instead, let me say from my position as a ‘diagnosed’ sex addict (:D 😀 :D) I can tell you that it’s AWESOME to have a free pass for all my shitty choices. And to have it legitimized by such giants as Oprah?? I am living the dream!

    If it is any comfort to poor, misunderstood Tiger Addict, he is as likely to be ‘cured’ of his sex addiction by attending NONE of his self-mandated therapy sessions as he would be if he dutifully attended each and every one … for years. Stay strong fellow addict … one step at a time.

    Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to find the time to ‘slip’ some rampant shagging into my day, buy dinner for my colluding co-addict (that’s the S-fellowship label for the spouse of a sex addict, for anyone unfamiliar with sex addiction lingo), and celebrate my sexual sobriety. Phew, it’s a good job that sexual sobriety doesn’t mean I can’t still have lots of lots of sex, and hang out daily with my co-addict. That would be a bummer!

    • My ex was in sex addicts anonymous for awhile. It sure didn’t change his behavior a bit. Just a bunch of bullshit. Then eventually he decided he wasn’t really a SA and that it was MY fault he kept screwing other men.

      • My ex was in sex addicts anonymous as well and while it may have stopped his sexually acting out for a short time, it did not change his sense of entitlement or disrespect for me or his continuous lying and deceit. Even if the sexual behaviour changes, their character does not change and the abusive behaviour expresses itself doublefold in all sorts of other ways after D-Day. Sex addict therapy is like a bandaid on an open chest wound. I was ignorant and stupid to go down that path. And yes, as soon as I filed for divorce my XH was out fucking other men regularly while refusing to leave the house for 18 months and pretending ‘happy families’ with the children. It isn’t an addiction issue, it is an abuse issue.

  • Annnnd this is my surprise face. Tiger Woods cheated again??? Not earth shattering in the least. It was only a matter of time until he did it again. What is really creepy (ONE of the creepy things) is that Lindsey looks JUST LIKE ELIN!!! WTF!! Did she not think, “funny. i look so much like elin”. I mean really. His choice of women he wanted to show the world wasn’t even original.

    Also, just an interesting observation in hindsight, Tiger always showed great animosity towards Phil Mikelson when they were both favorites. Now it makes sense why he would speak rudely about Phil during interviews…Phil was living the REAL and honest family life as a professional golfer while Tiger lived the lie. He probably HATED that.

  • Rofl! When I saw the article yesterday I made a comment to my mom. “I wonder how long it will take ChumpLady to have a field day with this” answer: not less than 24 hours. Bless you Tracy Schorn! You made me morning!

  • Well, we all saw that coming, right?

    I laughed to myself when I saw whatever magazine cover these two shared when they went public with their relationship. I thought, she can’t really be that stupid, can she? She can’t really think she’s more special than his beautiful ex wife who’s the mother of his children….

    Figure it out cheater-lovers…THEY RARELY CHANGE. Dare I say never?

    • New partners can turn a pathalogical cheater into a committed partner just as easily as I can turn Anderson Cooper into a vagina enthusiast.

      We can all dream.

        • Lol, it truly is. I mean, gay men of the world luck out on that one so its not so sad for them. But for me…

          • I had a 23 year old call me a silverfox at work the other day. I had to google it and that confused me. So you think I’m hot like an older gay man? Weird, but I guess I’ll take it. But I did color my hair after that.

          • Arnold – There is absolutely nothing wrong with being gay. Us women are lamenting that fact that he’s not into women because he’s such a handsome guy.

          • She means it’s sad because he’s very good looking and she’d like to have a chance to hit it with him, but since he’s gay, she doesn’t have the chance. That’s why the gay men of the world lucked out on that one…

      • My ex claimed that his OW made him straight. There’s some real super power for you! Of course, that wasn’t true and she didn’t even stay with him, anyway. Guess it wasn’t true love after all.

        • Darn, Glad. It really sounded like a fairy tale type of love story come true…
          Hahaha! Don’t the things they say boggle your mind?

      • Let’s have a “just as easily” contest. Making a confirmed cheater be faithful is done just as easily as nailing jello to a tree.

        • Reforming a cheater is just as easy as all 4 people at a 4 way stop knowing when it’s their turn and waiting until then.

    • I completely agree that the chances of a serial cheater changing are p < .0001. However, Lindsey started dating cheater about the same age that I started dating my serial-cheater X. Youth makes you think you can accomplish great things, even reforming other people. These narcissistic cheaters are VERY good at the talk as to (a) why they cheated in their former relationship/s, and (b) why they will not cheat on you because you are special. And who doesn't want to hear that they are special.

      Should Lindsay have known better? Yes. Should I have known better? Yes. But hindsight is 20/20; foresight in the midst of charm and falling in love is closer to 20/200 (about the visual range of an infant).

      • Oh, I totally agree. I thought the power of my love could fix anything. My ex’s financial problems, I’ll help him fox those. My ex’s complete inability to value a woman, I’ll teach him. His overwhelming insecurity that made him stir drama just to have me jump through hoops for him, I cab prove to him that he’s worth it.

        My current view is from my now educated perspective. Not from my perspective at 24.

      • Could it be a little of the “oh, you’re damaged? I’m damaged too” dynamic that attracted them? I read a lot of that shit in my ex and ow’s texts. They’re so fucking special, don’tcha know. It’s understandable that my ex was a serial cheater, since he was pretending to be someone he wasn’t in order to stay in the horrible marriage, great guy that he is. And she, the long suffering owhore, really understands this, as she lives a similar plight. Therefore, since they were meant to be, he will never cheat on her.
        Except that I have texts between him and his dating site skank making arrangements to meet at a motel later that night, that were sent minutes after telling ow she’s “the one.” Oh, and I also have numbers he texted that I traced back to…wait for it…an escort service.

        • Carmella1772, this reminded me if the first time I met his pig. When I told her he cheats two to three times a year she screamed,”he won’t cheat on ME”. X never stopped and he’s been living with her for a year now. She has no idea or is so disordered she doesn’t care. X doesn’t use escort services he picks them up on the beach, bars, casinos, and while on jobs. X has multiple phone numbers.

  • “Okay, your Honor. It’s a stiff penalty (I pun!), but I will humbly comply with your order.”

    I do love puns! As for Tiger – did anyone outside of Lindsay really believe that he would change his stripes? I sure didn’t.

    • Char–‘change his stripes’–HARDY HAR HAR! Good one.

      I missed the news of the cheating yesterday, this is the first I heard of it but I SUSPECTED it when I saw a clip of an interview with Lindsey last week. Her response to being asked if she had a fondness for golf seemed to scream a great disdain for Tiger. Her words were neutral but her body language seemed to tell the untold. I suspected immediately that he’d maintained his cheating MO.

      ***Geez, I had a hard time typing Tiger–what grown man is called Tiger? Pussy is more apt.

  • Interesting footnote: Hattiesburg, MS is also home to an “antique” store off I-59 apty names “Middle of Nowhere”

  • “‘You have to understand, while it’s not right, it’s not really wrong either. Tiger isn’t married. He doesn’t really drink or do drugs. So what else does he have when he can’t afford to lose again? He is allowed to find some relief.” and “It’s just a stress reliever, like a high-ball or two after a bad day.”

    Seriously? I don’t know if this is the Daily Mail talking or a close friend, or maybe these are direct quotes from Tiger’s own dick, but this is what really disgusts me: the widespread excusing and acceptance of it all.

    A stress-reliever? So after coming home from work tonight, instead of a glass of wine I should have a hooker — who knew?

  • Marezy doats:

    I agree with your post.

    That said, IMO, Lindsey Vonn likely dated Tiger as a marketing ploy to boost interest in her flagging career. It worked.

    There really are only a few reasons why people cheat, men and women cheat for different reasons.

    Frank Pittman a long time counselor wrote an excellent book on the logic of cheaters and little has changed in 2015 except that it has become just as publicly acceptable for women to cheat as for men.

    The simply fact is and always has been that: Men cheat down, women cheat up.

    Why do woman cheat up.

    Most SINGLE women who date married men are gold diggers on a large or small scale. They think the guy can give them a better lifestyle to some degree. If the lady lives in a trailer park and the married guy owns a 1 bedroom condo, that’s cheating up in some women’s minds.

    In addition, MARRIED women who cheat with married men are 95 percent of the time looking for an upgrade to their present spouse. They may upgrade for looks, prestige, money, or because the guy is better in bed. They are typically ready to leave their marriage, even though few married men want to leave the faithful wife for a cheating lady. Women rarely cheat for the sex, unless the lady is a nympho

    Men on the other hand cheat because they want sex or new or different sex. I.e. Anal and the wife hates anal.

    To that end married men are not too fussy about what their affair partner looks like or how much the lady earns as long as she is willing ready and able to engage in long term responsibility free sex. Men like variety and want to have their ego stroked as well as other parts, during an affair. That’s about it.

    I read that men focus on sexual parts when looking at a woman as a sexual object. They don’t care too much about the whole person. Just butts or boobs or whatever. I am sure you get the picture. So even if the affair partner is not as attractive or as intelligent or as successful as the wife, they don’t care.

    These men rarely want to leave their faithful wife for a down graded cheating lady.

    Cheating has been going on since biblical days, and it will continue.

    As Chris Rock said: Men are only as faithful as their options.

    • Please, don’t insult the genders here. My husband is a successful attorney, an absolutely lovely person, and went to an Ivy league school (if you’re into that). His “stock” trades highly. His ex’s last affair partner was a guy she met playing World of Warcraft when they were both “troll priests.” Can’t make this shit up. Oh, and another one was her boss who quit his job to sell word-burned dog portraits at farmer’s markets. None of them looked terribly attractive either.

      It’s about character, period.

    • ..and there will always be “options”, so who wants a lying ass, cheating jerk? Oh, that’s right, The skanky “option” does, and then she thinks it’s the best sex ever. Meanwhile cheater jerk loses his his home, paycheck, pension, wife, children, reputation, over having an “option”. Really?

    • D.A. you have a really fucked up vision of men and women in general. All women are not after money and all men are not just after sex. Generalizing both genders may feel good to you but it in no way makes your assertions true. One thing cheaters all have in common is a lack of empathy, gender neutral.

  • There are certain celebrities that when I hear about someone dating them, I think, OMG, this is NOT going to end well. Tiger Woods is one of them. I cannot understand why anyone would think dating him is a good idea. He’s going to cheat. It’s what he does.

    There is a guy I know in my social circle – one of those friend of a friend of a friend kind of things – who is a serial cheater. Even before I was Chumped (or at least that I was aware of!), I could never understand why anyone would want to date him. I fail to see the charm that keeps hooking woman after woman. Maybe I’m just not his type, so he never turns it on for me or I’m immune or something, but I find him horribly boring and fake. He’s not interested in anything anyone else has to say, he’s one of those people that you can tell is just waiting for his chance to talk again, you know?

    • Maybe there are women out there who just want a fling, nothing serious. They’re commitment phobic. They know a relationship with this guy won’t lead to marriage?

    • OMG Kira-I think you just came up with Geico’s newest commercial:

      “If you’re Tiger Woods you have sex with lots of hookers while you’re married. It’s what you do. If you want to save 15% or more on car insurance you switch to Geico. It’s what you do.”

  • I heard about their breakup last week. The first comment out of my mouth was “he cheated”. I got the ” you are so negative” comment. I went on to say he is a disordered dickwad. Looks like my gut reaction was correct.

  • He is disgusting. We all feel that way, but I guarantee there is a gigantic number of people (cheaters or wannabes) who see him as an idol or role model and would love to be him or just like him. I doubt he really suffers very much.

  • Okay, I can’t help myself: A Sex Addition Treatment Program in a “STRIP” mall?

    As for the Sex Addition part – I don’t believe in it. I used to, when I was spackling like an Olympic-league Chump, trying to make meaning of my ex-hubby’s behavior, and how I would “love him through this”. In fact, folks in the church I attend now were encouraging me to participate in their series involving people with spouses who have sex additions, to understand the their dynamics better and deal with my feelings of betrayal. I declined, as I believe the accurate reason for my ex’s extracurricular activities and subterfuge was not an addiction, but a notable absence of character.

    I was concerned I would be 86’d out of the course, because I would be the one in the back of the classroom, heckling “just put the workbooks down, and divorce his or her sorry ass!”.

  • When will this “addiction” nonsense be rightly ridiculed, I wonder?

    Cracks me up.

    Sure, it’s like those “Shoplifting” addictions, I bet. You know the ones where people are addicted to being self-entitled asses who get off on getting one over on people like shopkeepers, friends, etc by taking things from them without getting caught.

    He just needs a steady piece, and then the fun starts. Joy.

  • The big question of the day is, “Is Sexual Addiction Even Real?” Also, statistically, we never even really hear about it until a super famous celebrity gets caught in a cheating scandal. The DSM – 5 is the Bible for all forms of mental disorders and sex addiction is nowhere to be found. So, in addition to being in a strip mall, I seriously question the validity of anyone who allegedly treated him. In my opinion, this is seriously a cop-out for a narcissist to keep having the same type of bad behavior, and some giving him a pass. His career of late? I blame that on karma for the horrible way he treated his wife and embarrassed his family.

    • I have read somewhere that some mental health practitioners believe that by definition, if you are a narcissist or sociopath, you are a “sex addict” — or at least exhibit that behavior. (I also do not believe that there is such a thing as “sex addiction” per se, I personally believe it is an emanation of these other disorders, but what do I know, I only had one stone cold sociopath to study).

      • Desire for frequent sex goes along with both narcissism and sociopathy. However, my therapist thinks the difference is that the addict has to have sex to feel normal, and has little control over his/her impulses, whereas narcissists DO have control over it but just love the extra strokes (ego & otherwise).

        Example–my narc X wooed a very young woman, who blew him and then told him he had to leave his wife (me). He emphatically refused and cut off all ties with her. That level of control would have been difficult for a true sex addict. Lucky me, eh?

        • Interesting, so a sex addict may or may not be a narc/sociopath, but a narc/sociopath engage “sex-addict-like behavior” but has control over it. It’d be fascinating if it weren’t so sickening.

  • Not Juliet:

    I agree with your post totally. I don’t see Tiger suffering much due to his cheating. I also agree that a lot of men think he’s a role model they aspire to. Sad. I see men all the time patting cheaters on the back and talking amongst themselves about how they wish they had the balls to cheat, too. Conversely the cheaters are always telling the faithful guys they are stupid and do not know what they are missing out on.

    With that said, Lindsey Vonn is not a very nice lady either. She became unhappy with her marriage after one year and then three years later divorced her husband. At least she did not cheat, or we have not heard about that. Perhaps she kept it hidden. She also did not honor her vows.

    Maria Shriver also reportedly was cheating on Arnold for a long time with his campaign strategist named Dowd, according to numerous trustworthy insider witnesses and apparently Arnold knew about her affair.

    So, even though Arnold was a pig for what he did, Maria was a piglet, too.

    I don’t think Elin was cheating on Tiger. I truly felt sorry for Elin. Tiger is a huge rutting pig. He is not suffering for it, sadly.

    People in general just don’t honor marriage vows, anymore. Sad, truly sad.

    • D.A. I heard on the news from an interview with Tiger Woods that he is “suffering” (sarcasm) since the break up because he is not sleeping much. For course he is “suffering” because he didn’t have a new woman to replacement Lindsey. Poor little sausage because he doesn’t have anyone for Narcissistic Supply. Such a hard difficult world for Tiger Woods (more sarcasm).

      • Tiger may not be sleeping much, but it isn’t much of a secret why, and I don’t think the problem is insomnia.

  • Chump Lady:

    I could not agree more. A serial cheater, particularly one with such a sheer volume of hook ups,,is typically character disordered and recovery for them is totally hopeless.

    Perhaps Tiger or maybe it should be Tigger ;), the cartoon character. 😉 enjoys paying for sex? Perhaps it emphasizes his success? Perhaps he’s just a pig and likes really weird sex, and Elin said eeeeew, no way.

    Sex addiction, my growing ass, Tigger is just a hogwart.

  • Great post like always CL!

    I’m not shocked at all to have read this about Tiger Woods. I have been reading some really great books about Cluster B Personality Disorders in the past week months and from what I get from the material I have read so far is that more and more studies are showing that Cluster B Personality Disorders are coming down to Genetics/DNA. The more and more I think about the ex’s family and how odd their behaviour was during the time I was with him I can see that his family and him have these Personality Disorders.

    All these disordered people do the same thing over and over again. They are not able to see what they are doing is wrong. In their minds what they are doing is fine and they believe deep inside their core that is what everyone else is doing also. Remember they don’t have any empathy at all. They are not able to attach or connect in a deeper sense of these words. People are disposable to them. They have many many “others” they can replace us with. Sadly it is in their core to continue with this same type of relationship cycle. Tiger Woods is just another example of a disordered mind. Sadly there will be another woman thinking she is “special” and she can “change” him. Of course, she will think that because he can play these wonderful (sarcasm) mind games on her and become the “person” she wants him to be. When he finds this new “love” and they will have that lovely honeymoon stage then his mask will slip off AGAIN. Then the cycle starts again with him finds another replacement to feed his Narcissistic Supply. He MUST have his Narcissistic Supply because in his mind he will “fade” away. Very sad indeed. I don’t believe in sex addiction at all. Just an excuse for really poor decision making.

    Just like CL wrote who would trust a rehab clinic that is in a really poorly build strip mall anyway? Maybe he mistook strip mall of strippers? Sorry bad joke there!

    Now is this an excuse for what has happen? No of course! Sadly we all have been in these chump’s shoes and it’s awful. Down right abuse. The pain and how these disordered monsters can change our lives and the people around them just boggles my mind.

    I am sure 1 billion percent if we look and do the research with Tiger Woods and these other disorder serial cheaters we will see that it’s a long running history in their families.

    For me now this is my new motto and it has been this for many years now:

    “The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.”
    – Gaston Means (I know Dr. Phil says this also)

    • Beth, I too have been doing this sort of research on Cluster B and agree with you completely. Would you post your books in the forum section under http://www.chumplady.com/forums/forum/chump-chat-forum/resources/. The horrifying part of this is that I had children with this nut bag. My daughters both show signs of stress and insecurity and depression , my son is a cool collected cucumber (sort of just as scary). I am not at all sure how they will end up in this life. What I do know is that my XH, came from a disordered wierd family. One of my SIL’s kids has the female stress, anxiety and depression that my girls have, one of her little daughters has it too. Her little son only 3 is a little hellion. Somehow we need figure out this and either acknowledge it, identify it and come up with a nurture remedy for breeding with the fucktard as CL would say.

      • ringinonmyownbell, I think the same thing about Jackass’s family. His brother is a carbon copy of him–2 divorces, cheating on all sides. Hired a stripper as a “secretary” in his academic office. And J’s daughter has two narcissist parents, and even in high school showed limited interest in other people. Most of the reading I’ve done about disordered kids say that really good therapy can help in some cases, but I would think you need an expert in disordered children and the parent(s) would need to understand how to avoid feeding tendencies toward narcissism.

  • Chump lady:

    As I noted in my post. Trading up for women is not necessarily about money or an Ivy league degree. I have one. So what? I have a business that does not require an Ivy league degree and I earn more than I did in my wage slave career.

    For cheating ladies, It’s about an upgrade in their own mind. Perhaps the troll priest in your husband’s ex wife’s mind was better in bed in her mind. Who knows. Maybe, too, she really believed he was a troll priest in his soul. Ya’ know what I mean?

    For men, they just typically want some strange. Women rarely just want some strange. They need to feel special.

    The bottom line is that when women cheat, the usually have one foot out the marital door. They are ready to leave for whatever their reason is.

    I am just quoting what the experience MCs say based on their own empirical evidence.

    Your mileage may vary because there are always exceptions to the rule

    • When women cheat, they have a character problem. When men cheat, they have a character problem. That’s the only “rule” when you’re making generalizations about Why People Cheat.

      One foot out the marriage? The woman cheated for 20+ YEARS. And she didn’t leave the marriage — she got dumped when the infidelities were discovered. Cake eaters like cake. She’s no different than a male cake eater.

      • I agree 100%, CL. My ex was totally looking for Kibbles and Cake. I don’t think the sex was even the biggest thing for him, as long as there was some, to top off the Kibbles and Cake.

        All about character, whatever the gender.

        • I agree with CL’s statement 100%. DA is repeating the old saw that women cheat because their emotional needs are not being met so the affair starts when the wife has already checked out of the marriage. Men cheat because their sexual needs aren’t being met or they are just genetically hard-wired to wander but otherwise really value their marriage. The proof that this dynamic is false comes from its proof — MCs’ experience based on their client base! Cheaters always lie, especially in marriage counseling.

          • Has anyone read those e-books by Michelle Langley on “Women’s Infidelity”? She claims that women are just as drivne by sex vs this emotional connection deal.
            One anecdote she related was that word had spread ( no pun) among the wives in the neighborhood that one of the husbands was , particularly , well endowed. Within a year, something like 7 of the 8 wives in the group had bedded him.
            She goes on to make the case for men being just as communicative and emotionally evolved as women, etc. Very interesting.

            • I think women often feel emotionally connected to men whom they admire–men to whom they are sexually attracted.
              I think those 7 of 8 wives also may have been feeling competitive with one another, or were enthralled by the slutty dude’s love-bombing–IF that story is true.
              But honestly, I’m not sure that cheater women feel “love” like I feel love. I think a lot of them are soulless opportunists–just like the men who do the same thing.

          • Holy fuck! MY EMOTIONAL NEEDS WERE NEVER MET IN MY MARRIAGE to the serial cheating asshole with whom I created 4 children. The theory of women cheat because of unmet emotional needs is BULLSHIT.

            I kept my pants on for over 20yrs, my heart attached to the creep for crumbs and had PLENTY of “opportunities” presented to me by the asshole’s co workers, guys in bars, random whatevers.

            Nope, DA and anyone out there who loves the Mars/Venus bullshit. It’s about CHARACTER regardless of penis vs vagina.

            The long term MOW lacks character, the co workers of the asshole lack character, the xGFs of the asshole lack character. And of course my serial cheater lacks character. These people don’t care and are NOT focused on meeting their emotional needs. That is an EXCUSE to justify their lack of integrity, character and souls, and neatly blameshift their shittiness onto their faithful partners.

        • Moreover. It’s a lack of character. How can a cheater ever trade up realistically. They are both cheaters justifying their actions. They both earn the downgrade to the level they seek.

    • I actually think DA is right and CL is right as well. Serial cheaters are character disordered as a general rule. The way they show their disorder is OFTEN, though certainly nowhere near ALWAYS, as DA indicated. I also believe that a high percentage, though certainly not all, of cheating men just want some strange with no strings attached. I believe that a high percentage, though certainly not all, of cheating women convince themselves that there is something really special about their “love” that justifies the affair and justifies leaving the marriage if that happens. But regardless, they are ALL pieces of shit and character disorder never goes away.

    • Doesn’t matter why they cheated. They broke their vows, they betrayed their spouse. The reasons why they have crappy character doesn’t matter.

      They have crappy character.

      Saying anything else about cheaters just gives cover for them to justify their crappy choices.

      Similar to the Clinton motto in the 1990’s, it’s about their character, stupid.

      The usual caveats and provisos apply, I’m not calling anyone stupid. Your mileage may vary. If your anger at my post lasts more than 4 hours, please call your doctor.

  • I don’t think its fair to come down on Lindsey. When they announced the breakup as being amicable, they were on different career paths, etc, I am sure it was their intention to keep the cheating as the true reason to themselves. Along comes the ‘insider’ with their information. Logically, Lindsey is embarrassed by the revelation that she was cheated on. It was HER’S to give if she chose–not some blabbermouth seeking their 15 minutes of ‘fame’.

    We are blaming the victim if we make ‘she knew what she was getting into’ comments. I am sure the last thing she wanted was for their relationship to end much less be magnified with the gossiped sensationalism of his cheating. It merely compounds her pain.

    As for the above comment that Lindsey ‘was not a very nice lady’ and the accompanying ‘back that statement up’ comments regarding her marriage and subsequent divorce–how does she qualify as ‘a not very nice lady’? There are no allegations that she cheated–her marriage was apparently not a good one and for whatever reason they divorced.

    My marriage was bad and I divorced my husband. He was verbally and physically assaultive and though I did my best to stay in it for the long haul, I couldn’t. That does NOT make me a ‘not very nice lady’.

    • I agree, simply divorcing someone does not make you a “not nice” person. As for blaming the victim, I don’t. I DO say she had HUGE red flags. We all get red flags when we tangle with the disordered. Many of us have rescue issues and I’m special! issues. Very few of us have publicly disgraced, I lost millions, I’m a joke red flags like Lindsey got when she hooked up with him. Yeah, he was a bad bet.

      And I do think she tried to preserve her dignity and the thousands of I Told You So’s by saying it was her career and not his cheating.

      • Hi Tracy—I apologize if you felt I was remarking that you were blaming the victim. I know that you most certainly don’t.

        I doubt Lindsey will ever come forward and explain why she chose to get involved with him but it sure would be interesting to know, wouldn’t it?

        • We’ve been there. Tiger most likely love bombed her and made her feel “special”. It’s hard to explain to someone that hasn’t been chumped. Lindsey is now a Chump. Hopefully, wiser and more selective. I hope she finds this site.

    • Hesathecurb–I completely agree. Raise hands anyone who did NOT have red flags? Anyone?

      Knowing you SHOULD have paid attention to red flags does not make infidelity hurt less, and I think it is unfair to blame the victim here–Lindsey didn’t cheat, she was cheated upon. Should she have known better? Sure. But anyone who ignored signs of control or emotional abuse or lasciviousness and still married the guy/girl should have, in principle, known better. Anyone who tried to reconcile with someone they know cheated on them ignored a red flag. Trusting is not the crime; cheating is.

      Yes, his red flags were large, and were public. But it also gave him more ammunition to play the “look how much I hurt and will reform myself card.” Chumps should feel for other chumps.

      • I agree, Tempest. And I think Lindsey is relatively young and probably has heard all her life that people deserve forgiveness and another chance (especially as a young girl with a father who cheated.) Youth + cultural messages about forgiveness and second chances + believing people when they say they’ve changed + love bombing can lead to getting chumped.

      • I knowingly went into relationships with red flags flapping like mother fuckers….I was ignorant or chose ignorance for a myriad of reasons.

        I thought: I was special, boys will be boys, it would change because of the commitment of marriage, I HAD THE PROBLEM, it was just a coincidence, I’m strong enough for the both of us, this too shall pass, he didn’t mean it, he needs more love, he didn’t come from a loving family like mine, his mother did this to him, his father did this to him…bleachhh…

        I never made the mother fuckers PERSONALLY responsible for their shitty actions or crappy choices.

        Yep, that’s me. I’m a Lindsay. I made the same stupid choices. I didn’t leave a husband because I was “unhappy”, whatever that means, but sure as the Pope is Jesuit, I ignored the red flags as if they were tulips lining the walk to happily ever after.

        I figured, like me, though not perfect, they learned from their mistakes. Big fat fucking N*O*T.

        Here, I have fixed my picker. I hope and pray, I fixed my picker.

        He will be vetted through this website. THAT is for SURE!

        • Red flags, yup, CalamityJ–raising my hand. In addition to my believing in the redemptive power of love, etc., my X’s family all agreed that I was good for him and improved his overall behavior because I refused to tolerate his nonsense. I figured he wouldn’t cheat in our marriage because he knew I was not a pushover. All it did was make him take his pathology further underground.

  • I love real life cheater stories, especially ones with facts and photos about the other women. You get to see that in real life, the people who get cheated on are almost always a step up from the co whore, in looks and in general. Did you catch Tiger’s 2 cheaters in the link? Nothing special there for sure. The $15,000 one was as vapid looking skank as I have ever seen. Seriously. Of course, the $$$ were probably like a quarter to Mr. Woods.

  • My guess is that Tiger presented himself as a reformed, somewhat humbled, more down to earth guy who had learned and grown from his experiences and was looking for that special person. His golf interviews now are a bit less egotistical as compared to his interviews when he was the king of the golf world, and he can manage his image better than you might think. Their both being elite, world class athletes gives them something in common that very few people have. She’s still very young. I can easily see how this happened.

    Hopefully she will bounce back. He’s a mess.

  • Wow, chump lady, you are generalizing while accusing some guy or girl of generalizing? Do you not see that?

    I agree with D.A. for the reasons why men cheat or why women cheat. What does that have to do with personality. It goes without saying that cheating people are seriously selfish. I don’t think they lack morals because society as a whole lacks morals. I do think cheating is selfish and is indicative of someone who can not keep a promise.

    There are however different reasons for the genders to choose to cheat. Women need to feel special. Men don’t really need to feel special. They just want to get laid. 🙂 Don’t shoot the messengers. We are on your side lady.

    • Selfishness and dishonesty (not keeping a promise) are issues of personality, more specifically character.

      And your gender division certainly doesn’t apply to all, or even most serial or long-term cheaters that I know.

      • Karen E:

        Ms. Vonn broke her marriage vow promise to her husband because she was unhappy. Her husband was not abusve, even she admits. She was just unhappy. So Ms. Vonn is also character disordered. The two deserved each other, IMO. Just like a cheater she broke her promise because she was unhappy. Wah Wah!

    • WTF–

      You keep making statements that are not necessarily correct but stating them as fact.

      Why do I say that?

      My cheater was getting WELL LAID—ALL.THE.TIME.BY.ME.

      ALLLLL THE TIME….ALLLL THE TIME.

      He had no need to go elsewhere. Why did he go elsewhere?

      TO FEEL SPECIAL

      I guarantee there are many many members of the CN that would tell you the same thing

      Me thinks there’s a half baked troll in our midst–what’s up with your disrespectful ‘lady’ way of addressing Tracy?

      • Hesatthecurb – I also caught the disrespectful tone of ‘lady’

        WTF – That’s ChumpLady to you!

        Sorry, I know we should not feed trolls. I just could not help myself with that ‘lady’ condescension.

        • Yeah, I remember the fucktard that I dealt with used to always say “Look Lady”….whenever I confronted him with my suspicions and accused him of what he was actually doing (cheating and lying about it). I used to tell him that he sounded like some goofy ass cab driver or just your average creepy guy. Guess he kept things less personal that way, and maybe didn’t want to use names in case he called one of us by the wrong one. WTF.

    • WTF, you said ” I don’t think they (I assume you mean cheaters) lack morals because society as a whole lacks morals. I do think cheating is selfish and is indicative of someone who can not keep a promise.” WTF!!! I take it that rational thought is not a big part of your life.

  • I guess I’m just lucky, but my very first boyfriend was a serial cheating, pathological liar pig. He was a high school drop out, I was a tenth grader when we met, so I never caught him outright. he didn’t go to school and there was no Facebook, cell phones etc, then. Plus, I couldn’t even drive, lol. He was my first sexual encounter forty years ago when I was an eleventh grader.

    I believe he has cheated in every relationship he ever had. I’m not sure if I was the side whore or a main girlfriend, lol. I was totally in love with this guy for years. Thankfully, one day I saw him for what he truly was, a psychopath, and never spoke to him again. It was hurtful at the time, but looking back it doesn’t cause any emotions at all. Super meh.

  • HAHAHAHAHAHA! I logged onto the site this morning intending to write a question to the group…”can cheaters change or is the saying, once a cheater always a cheater, true?”. I got my answer!! I think there are some cheaters who can change, but the vast majority, including my lying cheating swinging asshole of a husband, are not capable. Tiger has a problem. My husband has a problem. My husband has been swinging for 5 years – he said, I think it’s more like 10 years, without my knowledge, behind my back. Asshole. He loves the attention from other women, the clandestine meetings while out of town on business, and in his message to one of the couples he fucks, he said his ‘whatever feels good with respect to sex and nudity often conflicts with my conservative values’. Wow. That’s pretty blatant and out there that he has no intention of changing his behavior. I asked him not too long ago, how that works, having sex with other people and being married. His reply – sex isn’t love. Wow. What a guy. Every mom hopes her daughter will find a treasure like that. HA! What is your opinion on that? I’m pretty sure I can figure it out, but curious all the same to see what everyone thinks…..

  • Sex isn’t love, and if he’d like to have all that sex without love, he should be free to do so – WHEN HE’S SINGLE, or in a relationship with someone who agrees with that, is OK with that, and may even be having their own swinging ‘sex without love’ with other partners.

    The problem isn’t the sex without love, or what feels good. The problem is the DISHONESTY and the selfishness required. Oh, I can’t actually get what I want (loving spouse, stable home, happy kids, AND lots of sex without love on the side) if I’m honest? So I’ll just lie and hide stuff. Who cares what the consequences will be for anybody else, or frankly, even for me – I don’t do consequences.

    I happen to prefer sex with love, but sex without love can be pretty damned good too. But I am honest, and people know what they’re getting when they’re involved with me in any way. And that’s the kind of relationship I want, the kind of person I want in my life.

    • I have always struggled with sex without love. It kinda grosses me out. That’s not a judgement. I’ve done it, I just didn’t really like it that much.

      • I think when it comes down to it, for truly disordered people, all sex is sex without love. They are incapable of love. They try to draw that distinction because they VALUE the many other services their loving spouse provides. It’s just an extra coin from their slot machine so their spouse won’t feel as used and abused as he or she actually is. “See, you mean so much MORE to me than just sex! I let you bring home your paycheck, bear and raise my children, clean my home, serve me dinner, entertain my friends and family, address my holiday cards, pick up my dry cleaning, blah, blah, blah.

        • And I think they value the high of “falling in love” and the social acceptability of being in a seemingly monogamous relationship that is a stable secondary source of ego kibbles.

  • “Sex Addiction” is a cop out. A cheater has character flaws. Getting involved with a serial cheater is a big gamble. If he did it once, he’ll do it again. The only explanation for his behavior is that he cheats because he chooses to. If you don’t know a horse, look at his track record, and Tiger Woods has a long record. We need to stop spackling and making excuses for these disordered hounds.

  • I just like the way the public embarrassment messes with his head and screws up his game. ,My x plays golf. The last few years he really sucks at it.

    • Jen, my ex loved his golf and I was left on many Sundays whilst he went and played because he had to have his interests. I just stayed home and ironed !! Anyhow, he sold of very expensive golf set to head over to SE Asia. I am sure they have golf courses over there but I would hazard a guess that he is too scared to leave his little piece alone just in case she wanders, like he did.

  • We all know why women hook up with TW… He is famous and very very very RICH! He is a spoiled child who is accustomed to getting what he wants when he wants….. In the end she wanted the money etc… he just wants what ever comes along because he is entitled after all he is TIger W…..

    • I agree with David B. Ms Vonn Wanted the money tiger had. Just like most women who cheat they are looking for a replacement for a husband that does not suit their needs at the moment. The problem is most cheating men do not want to leave their wife. So the OWs end up staying with the married cheater for years.

  • WHAT….WHAT….TIGER WOODS cheated on his girlfriend?

    Shocking news, since he attended the famous sex addiction academy in Mississippi located in a strip plaza with the likes of a seven eleven and laundry mat. How is that a classy place like that failed to keep Tiger’s wood in his pants. Being the foremost strip plaza in Mississippi that tends to sex addicts and a retail establishment where you can get smokes, lottery tickets and blue slurpees in fine paper cups fail Mr. Woods in his struggle to keep his wood in his pants.

    If anything, the failure of Mississippian sex addict Academy strip plazas and the adjoining retail establishments failed Mr. Tiger and his Woody.

    Mr. Tiger, may I suggest you visit your local carpenters association and get your wood treated with their speciality saws and nail guns. That might do the trick.

  • loving your comments!!! Its all true!!! lol
    feeling so much freedom right now…..
    Thank you!!

  • Well, he has money coming out his wazoo so he doesn’t have to behave like us plebs. Maybe Lindsay went into it with her eyes wide open, knew it would only last a certain time, and decided to just enjoy the moment. Too bad she didn’t calculate that being associated with the creep makes her look awesome stupid. What decent guy would want her now…she clearly has the judgment of a flea.

    • Why are you blaming the victim? Like most of us Chumps we ignored or overlooked the red flags for whatever reasons. My heart goes out to Lindsey.

    • Come on Marci, what up? Are you damaged goods because you were cheated on? Not cool. Jedi Hugs if you are feeling down!

  • I think we are having a problem with naming the demon. If addiction is a physical thing that happens when you cannot give up using a substance — then sex or gambling or shopping etc would not be an addiction. Still, every one of us might want to do any of those things, but we choose to, or not. At some beginning point, the addicts thought it was a choice, too. Eventually, whatever the behavior is, it becomes a driving force in their life. Everything else has to be worked in around __________. No matter what the addiction/obsession/whatever is,

    I have read that pedophiles don’t stop their preference, no matter what type of counseling they get. Rapists either. Why they become who they are is a question that we may well ask. We might wish there was a cure. Otherwise, what are you going to do with this terribly flawed human for the rest of his/her life? They are never going to tell the truth about their obsessive behavior — because the truth would warn away prospective victims. The thing that chills me the most is that somehow they believe they are entitled to do whatever it is they do, and the rest of us don’t really matter at all. We are useful or not, a body part, available, and we listen to their line, and fall for it. Until we don’t.

    When we look back, we see the warnings we missed. But we are looking back with different eyes — eyes which have seen the horrible truth, finally. Maybe we can save our future selves from being sorry by being more careful about what we allow ourselves to believe. Maybe we will set up boundaries that are important to ourselves, and enforce them. We have to be willing to be ALONE, to enforce our boundaries. Many of us hate to be alone, and start compromising in order to have companionship. What are you willing to pay to have company?

    I’ll give you a simple example. I am a non-smoker. I don’t want to be around someone that smokes. That is my choice. I have relatives that smoke. Do I go to the family reunion or not? I love my relatives, even though they smoke. Even if I feel they are harming themselves by smoking, and they are certainly not helping anyone else who is around them when they smoke. Do I stay away entirely, or do I compromise my decision to be a non-smoker, and go to the reunion where I will be exposed to second hand smoke?

    What if I meet a man I am attracted to, and we are in a non-smoking environment. We laugh, we find we have much in common, we go out and have fun. I accept another date. Then, as he is walking me to the door — he lights up a cigarette. Do I stop in my tracks and say “oh, no, I cannot be with you if you smoke!” Here is the thing — even if he promises to stop smoking because he really wants to be with me, I will always wonder if he is sneaking off to smoke. Because we know smoking is not good for you, but still people smoke. Because they want to.

    Now, replace my aversion to smoking with my aversion to cheating. What if I meet a man who seems wonderful in so many ways, and I know I am beginning to have strong feelings for him. Then he confesses, he “used to” cheat and has had several relationships that ended because he cheated. As a matter of fact, he wants to be with me, exclusively mind you, so much, that he is going to break it off entirely with another woman he has dated for five years (that I have never heard about until this moment). So I know he is a serial cheater, and I know how I feel about cheating. Do I say adios because of his past, or do I give him a chance to prove he is always going to be a serial cheater?

    Every day we make choices and take risks. Some choices are really hard. We see red flags, and we have to choose whether to take the risk that we may be wrong, or not. I take less risks now because I am still suffering from some of the scars I acquired during my risk taking youth. I may miss out on some good things because I don’t want to live a risky life, anymore. But unlike those who are addicted or obsessed or whatever it is, I have learned that sometimes the price we pay for taking a risk our gut tells us not to take is too dear. Sometimes it is better to be alone than to take the risk on someone else’s proclamation of reform.

    It is easy to see other peoples mistakes in judgement. Looking at your own is somewhat harder. We do not do anything which causes the cheater to cheat. The question for us is, do we cheat ourselves when we make bad decisions, and can we stop ourselves from making those bad decisions?

  • Lindsey was just another prop. Just like his wife. They made him better than what he was…or who he appeared to be. He needs them( Elin and Lindsey) for appearances. The celebrity golfer/husband /dad. Elin gave him the cover he needed to slip into his other world. She was his tie to the “normal life.” The facade. He needed her to make his life look normal. Enter Lindsey….great career/character booster….Lindsey gave him a chance America ! He used her just like his wife. She was making him look normal…for awhile anyway!

    • True–people are commodities to serial cheaters. Just look at the photo of them up above. Tiger’s pose and facial expression scream “me, me, me!!” She is leaning into him; he is ramrod stiff with minimal contact with her. His smile is for effect, without any real warmth. Narcissistic user.

  • I kept waiting for this to happen! When they announced that they were no longer seeing one another I had a feeling this was why. I really have no idea whey she would have gotten involved with him. With his past……I don’t care if he was “healed” of his “sex addiction”…..I still wouldn’t want to be associated with someone, much less date someone, with his character!

  • When a person is deceitful, I think that they can say anything in response to any situation for their own benefit. It could be that they use impression management, difficult childhood/marriage/job as the cause of behavior, lack of impulse control, blaming others, culture, peer pressure, excessive stress, not realizing the consequences or thinking that they would not get caught, etc. I try to come to that place of not putting my energy into why they did what they did because it just sucks me into a time suck.

    What I try to remember is that before any of us chumps get into a situation where we could get away with something like cheating or stealing or lying or betrayal or framing someone, we most likely will pause and tell ourselves that ‘this is not who I am’ and even if I could get away with this poor choice, I am still not going to chose the poor choice just because I will most likely not get caught.

    People’s reaction to Tiger Woods and his cheating and people’s reaction to Tom Brady and the deflating of footballs can help me see how people justify things. LIke the person quoted about Tiger and saying that cheating was a way to reduce his stress. Poor choice for stress reduction and not an excuse. And, if the PSI in footballs has a lower limit to its range, don’t deflate them more after they have been inspected even if the chances of your getting caught are slim.

    I see how people word salad their way out of anything and I am working on fixing my picker and observing their behaviors and their responses to other people’s behaviors. This is more telling than what they say to justify a poor choice.

    I worked at a company that went through a re-organization and we had to either relocate to a new city or take a voluntary separation package. I took the package but what happened with so many employees there was heartbreaking and astounding. People were mad and did some really awful things. Files and documents were deleted to make work harder for replacements. In the relocation agreement, they forgot to write a stipulation that if the company paid for the relocation for the employee, the employee was required to work for a year or they would have to pay back the cost of relocation. Plus, there was a date of one year for the employee to relocate fully to the new city. So, people signed the relocation with the last possible date of relocation and stayed at their current location and looked for another job in that town without planning on relocating at all. Others signed to relocate and were searching for jobs in the new city and were planning on quitting from the current company as soon as their move was fully paid to the new city. At any rate, people acted to their advantage while lying to the current employee. It was shocking to me that employees were coaching others on how to lie and get the best advantage and sign things with no intent on honoring what they signed. It was a wake up call on how people can act in times of stress or anger. Yeah, I hated the re-org but I did not delete documents and falsify records. I just signed my separation agreement and left. And, I called the Relocation Dept. to let them know of the missing stipulation so that they could have money prepared to re-hire about 95% of the staff who were not going to be at the new city but signed documents that they would move and work for them.

    I try to remember that when we have stress or are not happy, we have choices. Also, when we think that we can get away with something with no consequences or little consequences, we still have a choice as to our behaviors. It is a character issue to chose cheating or to not cheat no matter what is going on in our lives. Our society seems to condone behaviors that are not honest and no one seems to be bothered much about lying or cheating or deceit. This is where seeing red flags in people early and choosing who I want to be around or not is where I am trying to put my energy now. I missed so much before but can see better that in small things and big things, people have a choice and it shows too when they justify that poor choice with an excuse or blameshifting or justification due to a difficult childhood. Ugh! If I get married again, it will be zero tolerance for certain behaviors. He would have to decide ahead of time that certain deceitful behaviors are off the table regardless of stress, etc. Even unilateral decisions were a pain to me and I see now how disrespectful it was when they affected both of us in a profound way yet he made them without having a discussion about it first. And, I was agreeable to so many things that were discussed that he chose not to discuss it so that he could guarantee that he got what he wanted with that decision. Entitlement.

    There is no reason that Tiger Woods has to act like this unless he feels entitled. It is insane behavior that should not be excused away as his way of dealing with stress from losing at golf. We all have stress and we have lots of better choices to deal with it. And, when people act like those in professional sports or in famous careers have so much more stress than everyone else, I don’t buy it. We all have stress in our lives and it would be awesome if people would stop making excuses for the famous athletes or actors.

    • Marie3, I’m glad you mentioned Tom Brady. And I don’t mean what I am about to say to be about bashing the Patriots football team, as my own city has a QB who has seemingly straightened up after demonstrating some massive character/entitlement issues. We will see. But here’s a man with EVERYTHING. He had, at the time he was caught, 3 Super Bowl rings (now 4). He has been MVP. He’s worth millions. He has endorsement. He’s married to the most famous supermodel in the world, who is rich in her own right. He has the adulation of millions and will certainly go into the Hall of Fame. He’s the most important player on a consistency excellent team run by a Machiavellian genius and the Commissioner’s BFF.

      But that wasn’t enough. First he and Coach Machiavelli get caught in the Spygate cheating scandal. And while the coach and team owner took the hit for that one, there is no way Brady didn’t know or benefit from those stolen signals (and the oft-speculated radio channel right into Brady’s helmet with the defense’s signal call before he snapped the ball). He has to lobby to change the rules to allow team to provide their football, and then, after that, scheme to further alter them against the rules. Why? Because he could. Because he is above the rules. Above the players and other teams. Above the game. He’s a textbook cheater. Tom Brady has billions of kibbles thrown his way every day, but there are never enough kibbles. Never. And it would not surprise me in the least if one reason he won’t turn over his phone is that there is stuff on there his wife doesn’t know about. But what is most distressing to me is how the sports world sees the cheating as “no big deal,” something “everybody does.”

      If that were true, the other team wouldn’t have alerted the NFL that the Patriots were playing with deflated footballs. The past week has done a lot to just get me over the whole idea of the NFL.

      • Ever watch one of the Dreamboat’s sideline meltdowns? The NPD is strong with this one. Brady always seems to be saying, “F you, I’m Tom Brady…and you’re not.” On and off the field.

        Not sure if Ben has really cleaned up his act, or got a better PR team. Time will tell. I always thought his marriage was a PR stunt, but I’m cynical about people changing.

      • Bill Belicheck was named as the OM in a divorce a few years ago. Hypergamy to the max for the cheating wife he was doing.

      • AND he cheated on Bridget Moynihan, the mother of his child, to be with Giselle. Anyone surprised?

    • People cheat because society rewards them for cheating. Tiger has been rewarded and lots of cheating people like Clinton had no consequence for cheating. Cheating in all forms has become socially acceptable.

      Instead of the cheating types being pariahs, the up and up types are now the pariahs or dupes of society. We are looked on as antiquated fossils. We are the ones being laughed at and denigrated.

  • CL,

    Please explain the line in the Daily Mail article, “…while it’s not right, it’s not really wrong either.” Love that justification — that should work for a lot of things in life! Also, by the quality of Tiger’s golf game these days, I would say he’s had more than just one “highball.”

  • Oh, look! A picture of what Lindsey Vonn had in front of her when Tiger Woods asked her out on a date:

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/30/09/282828D200000578-3062113-image-a-3_1430381157393.jpg

    There are red flags and then there are red flags. Ms. Vonn didn’t deserve to be cheated on, but choosing to enter into a relationship with the Most Notorious Cheater of the Century leaves her no reason to be surprised. Like someone who adopts a baby alligator that a year later devours their pet poodle.

    Don’t date the cheaters, and don’t feed the gators.

    • A cautionary tale, certainly! Lindsay took her chances and while I don’t think she’s a victim, she has to take responsibility for her own judgment and as Nomar says, has no reason to be surprised. Dating anyone is a risk, but there is a difference between taking a normal and carefully considered risk and loading the dice by picking idiot damaged partners who are almost certain to hurt/cheat on/use/humiliate us. Accepting the risk of being hurt as we venture into new relationships is one thing – playing with fire whereby we are ASSURED of major hurt by getting involved with truly dreadful people is another!

      • To my credit, I haven’t knowingly entered into a relationship with a cheater. I never would have married my cheater if I had thought he would ever be a cheater. That was one of my main criteria, no drunks, druggies, liars, thieves, cheaters. He thought two out of five wasn’t bad. Wrong !!!

    • Of course she doesn’t have reason to be surprised. But I still think many of us are attributing to her OUR knowledge of the intransigence of infidelity. And that’s not fair. Some of us could hear other chump’s stories and say, “Oooh I would NEVER have married that person,” and the other chump would look at us, and say “What were you thinking? I would NEVER have married your X.” Either way, the victims (including Lindsey) deserve sympathy/empathy.

      I suspect Lindsey feels exactly as I felt when a friend asked, “How did you not know about your H’s affair from 8 years ago; everyone else knew.” In one sense, my friend was right–I was clueless. and stupid. Trust and loyalty overwhelmed my sixth sense that my X was untrustworthy. Well, trust and possibly her own FOO issues overwhelmed Lindsey’s knowledge of Tiger’s predilections.

      • Agreed!

        How did I not see the signs in my own marriage–and before that, when I accepted being his default? WTF? Am I stupid?

        No, it’s standing in the forest–you can’t see it, because the trees are in the way.

  • The comment about shooting Mormons reminded me of a chapter from “The Nazi and the Psychiatrist”… Basically Goering said that he didn’t have anything against Jews personally, but that killing them was good for his political career.
    Sociopath?
    I confess. I am a CL addict. It gives me a high. I try not to read the posts, they just draw me in & no amount of self flaggelation seems to keep my eyes from the pages. Where should I turn for help? 🙂

  • Tiger will have an unlimited supply of willing partners but if any of them invest anything more than the few minutes (I’m guessing) he spends jacking off with them is just.plain.dumb. He’s a malignant narcissist people, stay far far away!

  • I had never heard of Lindsey Vonn before today, but considering her level of achievement in the sports world, I doubt she’s any stranger to narcissists, and I doubt she is naive enough to think that someone with a reputation of cheating at the level of Tiger Woods would really be faithful to her. Who knows, perhaps she just wanted the attention from dating him. Or she knew it would be a short term relationship. Or she herself could be disordered and enjoyed the drama. Anything is possible, there is a high percentage of narcs at the top levels of sports.

  • “‘When Tiger realized he was seen, he became concerned and eventually he decided to confess to Lindsey. Something he didn’t do with Elin. He came clean and I give him credit for that.”

    He came what now? He got caught and rushed to head her off… that’s not a confession. You’re not sorry if you only cop to it when you’re caught. You don’t get to claim that you told the truth when it’s already known.

    “I know you saw me fucking my secretary on youtube. The truth is: I’ve been cheating on you with her.”

    Uh, no shit.

  • I might make this a separate post on the subject of red flags — I just want to say for the record, I don’t blame Lindsey Vonn for Tiger’s cheating. I think she is, however, a cautionary tale about believing in people’s potential over the evidence of their actions. It’s a cautionary tale about spackle.

    I also think, on the subject of dating known “reformed” cheaters, that feelings of immunity or It Will Be Different For Me are so important to debunk, because essentially, it’s another form of chump blame. Well, the ex Failed To Do The Things To Make the Cheater Happy. I won’t do those things! Ergo he/she won’t cheat! Not enough sex? I have a high libido! Too passive? Not me!

    No, it’s always about the character of the cheater. The cheating is ALWAYS on them and not what the chump did or did not do.

    Once you KNOW this about infidelity, it makes moving forward much less scary. We CAN learn from the red flags that we missed. We CAN attune our pickers. Is it fool proof? Of course not. Love is always risk. Loving with your whole heart makes us vulnerable. But if we judge people’s actions over time, I think we’ve got a good shot at discerning their character.

  • I keep coming across innuendo that Lindsey herself was a cheater. Something about her ex burning her custom ski boots? It makes me wonder if she overlooked Tiger’s history because condemning him would also be condemning herself?
    Just my observation.
    And while I’m in gossip mode, I read ( but have been unable to confirm) that our fav Tori is knocked up with child 5 to save her marriage. yeah, that will work. I also read aaron spellings will gives her $1 mil per grandchild so maybe she needs the money.

  • ‘she clearly has the judgment of a flea.”
    rofl! I learn a new excellent phrase every single day on C/N!

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