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Dear Chump Lady, Make nice with the OW… or else

sorrynotsorryDear Chump Lady,

STBX and I are both 45. We have been married 18 years, together 23. We have a son, 15, who is disabled, and a daughter, 11, who isn’t. I gave up my career to care for our son. STBX’s career has been doing just fine, and for the past 5 years he has spent nearly 1 month out of 4 in China on business. We live in Sweden.

D-day was seven months ago. STBX came to me in tears, demanding that I comfort him after he found out his Chinese mistress of four years had been cheating on him. What followed was a most humiliating pick me dance, but finally, I saw through his Genuine Imitation Naugahyde Remorse. I asked for a divorce and we filed together.

STBX has been amazingly cooperative and generous. I have only a symbolic income, and Sweden has no spousal alimony, but he has agreed to child support much higher than the law demands — high enough that the kids and I will be okay if I’m careful. He says it just makes sense the kids stay with me since he travels so much. Since I have the kids I should obviously I take everything I need from our house. He thinks I need a car too. He offered to let me keep the house, but in the end he bought me a comfortable apartment in a more convenient location. He even promised to pay for some necessary renovations. I get the keys in a couple of days and will move right away.

But… and isn’t there always a but?

OW demands I apologize for what I did to her and poor STBX. I wasted so much of her precious youth, keeping him trapped in a “dead” marriage by “refusing” the divorce he claims he asked me for so many times. Couldn’t I take a hint when he moved out of our bedroom? Even her cheating on STBX was my fault, since she needed to try to get married and have babies before it was too late (she is 28!!!) If I only apologize, she will forgive and forget. She wants us to be best friends. She’s just big hearted like that…

The truth is, he denied it to my face every time I suspected there was something going on. He didn’t mention divorce until D-day, when he begged me NOT to divorce him! We still share our bed.

STBX is terrified I will expose his lies so he loses both his kibble dispensers at once. If I ruin his Once in a Lifetime Epic True Love, he vows that he will make sure that both I AND THE KIDS suffer even more than he does. If she dumps him again, he swears he will drag me through the courts for custody, and when he inevitably loses, he will pay the absolute minimum.

The divorce agreement won’t be final until November, so I’m walking on eggshells. I’m already pretty meh about STBX. I’m okay with feeding him cake for a good cause since the end is in sight. I offered to block her completely, but that wasn’t good either — she might see it as a snub and she is soooo fragile. When I am forced to interact with OW, the meh flies out the window. To grovel for her would be unbearable.

Also, a part of me feels sorry for her. OW is obviously making life choices on bad information. Just like I was. Even a whore who can’t wait for the divorce she believes is coming before fucking my husband deserves better.

What do I do? So far I have been stalling her with “sorry, I’m soooo busy this week, maybe we can talk some other time?”, but that won’t work for long.

Swede-Chump

Dear Swede-Chump,

Boy, your OW sure takes emotional blackmail to new heights, doesn’t she? This is a classic “don’t negotiate with the terrorists” situation. Who trusts a terrorist to abide by any agreement they make? On the other hand, negotiating with terrorists is usually how hostages get freed. (Unless you’re suggesting a Seal Team 6 solution.)

Let’s say you play along, and “apologize” to the OW and pretend to be her long-distance BFF, I can see a few things going wrong. (Besides the obvious — eating a giant shit sandwich).

1. You grovel. She gets what she wants and dumps your husband anyway. (She’s already cheated.) Now what? You think Mr. Cheaterpants is going to be all, “Well, you were a good sport! Here’s your divorce settlement!” No, you might be fucked both ways. Crap settlement AND having groveled to the OW. If she dumps him again, he swears he will drag me through the courts for custody… You don’t control if she dumps him again.

2. You grovel. He gets cake. OW’s happy and doesn’t really want you and the kids to have a generous divorce settlement. After all, SHE wants kids with him. The “let’s be friends” shit is impression management. (Yes, I’m implying that a woman who could fuck your husband for four years is insincere about your well-being.)

3. You grovel. He gets cake. He’s confident you’re too chumpy to tell his secrets to the OW. (He’s manipulated her not to believe you, and now you’re groveling and agreeing to the narrative anyway.) He doesn’t want to agree to a decent settlement after all. (Yes, I’m implying that a man who cheats on his wife and family for four years is untrustworthy.)

So there are the risks. What I would prefer is a world in which you say fuck him, you don’t need him or his “offers,” and you go back to work and find decent care for your son. You’re in Scandinavia, aren’t there social services and childcare? (We hear about this mythical land of democratic socialism here in the U.S.)

I don’t like your dependence on this creep. And I don’t like how you view the money as “his” money and “his” generosity. Fuck that! You’re in a MARRIAGE. Legally, what he earns belongs to you both. That furniture he is “giving” you belongs to YOU as well. Take back your power! If I’ve learned anything after running this blog for 3 years is that stay-at-home parenthood is a high-risk venture. It’s bungee jumping off a bridge span without a net. If anyone is reading this and contemplating SAH motherhood, get a freaking post-nup. You assumed ALL the economic vulnerability in this marriage and were rewarded with a four-year affair. Again, I say, fuck him.

Woulda coulda shoulda. You need the decent settlement NOW. Okay, now I’m throwing open your Negotiate With the Terrorists stratagems to Chump Nation. Some people do report success in divorce by sucking up to narcissists. Oh sure, I’ll be your friend. Just sign over this asset… that’s right, honey. You can have all the cake you want, just sign here.

I’ve never done it. (And have the gargantuan legal bills to prove it.) But maybe other chumps have played the guilt card (assuming narc’s feel guilt), and manipulated outcomes. Do tell, folks.

If you were to go this route, I’d suggest you just agree to whatever batshit crazy thing the OW says. Do one of those non-apology apologies. Or simply tell her the truth, “You really are a better mate for him.” (Leave out, “Because you’re as selfish and disordered as he is.”) If you can manage a straight face, maybe you can add, “I can’t stand in the way of Once in a Lifetime Epic True Love.

You just have to tough it out until November. What does your lawyer say? Meanwhile, for the love of God, QUIT SHARING A BED with this idiot! Groveling to the OW isn’t the real problem here, it’s letting that smug son-of-a-bitch eat cake.

He wants his mistress AND his family (set up in a nice apartment across town). Believe me, the threats to cut off support will be contingent on cake in the future as well. Tie that shit up tight in the divorce decree. Get your settlement and go NC on his ass.

Please consider going back to work. It’s much easier to say “fuck you” with money in the bank. YOUR money.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
    • Definately DO NOT feel sorry for the OW. what kind of woman thinks it is okay to CALL THE WIFE and tell the wife off. in my opinion, she just fucked herself in the sympathy department. she deserves all that she gets from this loser who is lying to her. You as the wife, DO NOT OWE the other woman a damn thing!!! Least of all an apology!!! unless it is an apology like “I am sorry you are fucking my HUSBAND and legally he is mine”. She does not deserve any kind of respect or honor, you can not understand that kind of crazy, so i suggest you protect yourself with the best lawyer you can get. there is no guarentee that even after you follow all his wishes, jump thru all his hoops, that she STILL end up leaving him and he turns around and blames you. the only thing i would tell this LOSER is that you agree not to volunteer information. but if she keeps harassing you like this then you cant help but tell her something to shut her up.

      i am so sorry you are in this position. i wish you well

    • Swede- I’m even angrier at your STBX then mine right now. He is a whiny, ball-less, prick. His OW is a piece of shit. Definitely a match made in hell. DO not apologize to that witch. What the hell does she want an apology for?? You can’t explain bat shit crazy and she is bat shit crazy and he is a spineless loser. You will be richer just for getting him out of your life.
      I agree with some of the other posters who believe he is hiding money. I’d start snooping.. if you have to play a little nice and act stupid to make him trust you so be it. BUt use that to dig up dirt and assets he’s hiding. WHat are the tape recording laws in sweden? If you can record conversations with either one do it and get him and her trying to black mail you.
      Definitely get a job but don’t turn your back on what he owes you.

  • Swede…. Do you know who Monty Hall is? Cause this ‘ lets make a deal ‘ approach to your divorce is just that… A game. Seems like your Monty might have a few things hidden behind a few more doors…. Since he is willing to be more generous. I say dig a little deeper….
    Align yourself with a lawyer and find out your options and language that can be included into the settlement.
    I find it most bizarre that Schmoopie insists on an apology. if she walks around with that much entitlement …. U can guarantee that she will have plenty to say about where his cash goes after the divorce. I would say that unless u are prepared to have her run the rest of your life for u…. Because she is running the show…. Get yourself a lawyer.

    • Swede, you’re dealing with not one but TWO malignant narcissists, which is a dangerous and soul-murdering situation. TheClip is right- the OW will run your life! How long before she does the same cruel emotional crushing of your kids’ spirit? And you can be certain that there’s A LOT more $$$ / assets hidden somewhere (I’d look in China first), or he wouldn’t be offering you a thin dime. Lawyer up! It’s worth every cent to have someone in your corner. You’re in a two-against-one situation and it’s up to you to Protect yourself and your children. Feeling mighty is the best remedy sometimes. Hugs to you and your kids.

      • I think you are right that they are both narcissists. They play even more power games with eachother than with me.

        The income I DO know about is enough. I have been financial manager of the household ever since we first moved in together. His paycheck goes straight into an account I still have access to, and I can even see every transaction he makes. I’m not too concerned about his offshore assets. I know he has a “hobby” business in China, and that he has used the money from that to support OW (and he cuts her off when they fight).

        • I hate to say it but the OW is doing you a favor! He cuts her off when they fight? Just wow. I don’t know enough about the laws in either America or Sweden to give you any legal advice.

          I do have a suggestion for a bit of investigative advice however. His check goes directly into your joint account but do you ever see a pay stub? In other words do you have any idea if that account is receiving the whole check? Where I work and many other employers in the US, you can allocate all of your check to one account or you can send part of it to a savings account or use part of it to participate in the employee stock purchase program or a combination of all three. You’d have to see his pay stub to see exactly how his check is being divided.

          Cheaters not only cheat, they lie too; like a lot. I’d look into that as discretely as possible because he might be hiding assets anyway.

          Sending jedi hugs your way and if you can find a way to avoid the shit sandwich of apologizing to that wing nut other woman definitely do that!

          • Yes, the pay stub goes to me as well, and I also handle his personal tax returns.

            I have less direct information about his Chinese business, but he keeps some papers in a binder in his office, and I have peeked. The sums are considerably less. I think OW is satisfied anyway. In Sweden, we are comfortable but not rich. In China, STBX is a vip, all 5 star hotels and cars with drivers and luxury restaurants, and it all costs less than I spend on groceries while he is away.

            • I pray that u are correct about the finances… He lets u see what he wants.. Trust me on that one. I would go forensic on his ass. U have no idea what the other women has access to. Some of those transactions u see maybe her using a card he provided to her. Play nice. Dont change anything that u are doing to tip him off… U need to start digging… And i am talking archeologogy type digging. I betcha Monty has a few more hidden doors!

    • Maybe he’s been telling his whore that he earns a lot more/has a much more important job than he actually does. She thinks he earns $1.5 million/year as a VP of BigShot Industries so is fine with giving the ex-wife $50K/yr. What she doesn’t know is that he really brings home $100K as Assistant Director of Douchelordery. In my unfortunate experience cheaters lie to all parties involved.

      • “she doesn’t know is that he really brings home $100K as Assistant Director of Douchelordery”

        I love you ca-chump !!! hahahaha

        After he retired from the military, my deadH earned about $125,000 as the Assistant Director of Douchelordery in a very upscale American outdoor equipment/apparel company (think of the black fleece jacket that nearly every human in the first world owns) …guess who works at companies like this one, flaming narcs…so he fit right in.

        So there was a time when he was going to buy me a big house (about $700,000) and a Mercedes and give me all the savings just to”let him go” (trying to bribe me not cause a stink at my abandonment …truth was I planned to go all “scorched earth” on him with photos of him & OW in our Christmas card)…

        then he was going to move to $eattle and marry Susan ___ and they would have babies. (Somewhere in his crazies he mentioned that he was going to spend $40,000 for her engagement ring) Im sure she would be a stay at home mom so he would have 2 families and 2 mortgages…3 kids in college and I make a measly $36,000/yr.

        (please know that the day he told me he planned to buy this $40,000 engagement ring, our kids college fund had a total of $0 in it, but that doesn’t surprise you seasoned chumps)

        I don’t know when MeWantCake Man was going to do the math and see that he couldnt afford to pull off the “well planned guilt free wife dump” of his dreams on what he made…and Im sure it would have been all my fault.

        At risk of repeating myself, for anyone who missed my story, my H died suddenly 7 years after the year when he made all these fine plans…99.99% of everything he did that year was assholey and selfish, BUT he did buy life insurance…big policy. yea, go me

  • Swede, please find a good lawyer, Stall a bit longer and make sure you and your kids are taken care of. I’m kind of new at this myself so I don’t have any experience to offer, just my sincere hopes and prayers that you will come out of this with the best situation possible.

    • Lawyers make little difference in Sweden. Granting alimony is EXTREMELY rare. So rare that when someone does get alimony (usually very little for very limited time) it makes the papers. Child support is also rare, as 50/50 is the expected norm and when child support is secured it’s usually not enough to live on.

      Swede-chump, I suggest you get everything in writing. You don’t say if you’re a Swede or an ex-pat but if you want to contact me through Chump Lady I have some advice for you.

      • Granting alimony is EXTREMELY rare.

        Now wonder Scandinavians declare that marriage is just a piece of paper.

      • I think Swede is handling this all extremely well. She knows him, and what gets the best response. Often the ‘soft’ way gets the best results. Keep on keeping on, Swede

    • Anyway you can hold onto your information until after the divorce is finalized and your support is memorialized? I was just thinking that you hold a very big card here, accurate information about the way things really were, that he fears you disclosing.
      Why not just play along and make him aware ( although nothing in writing or that can be recorded) that if he follows through with the support agreement and the purchase of the apartment etc. the information re his actually sharing the bed and never having asked for the divorce etc. the information will not be disclosed to this fool in China.
      Use his fear of disclosure to your advantage but , never do anything that could be used as evidence of extortion. Nothing in writing, nothing over the phone. Just hints in person.

      • Yep yep, I agree. Tell him that you will of course do all that he asks as soon as all of the paperwork is signed off on and filed as well as all of the promised $$$ being handed over and secured into an account for you.

        As CL mentioned, isn’t Sweden the land of taking care of their people and if so shouldn’t there be programs in place for your son so that you can go back to work? Going to work can be a great way for you to regain your independence both mentally and financially. It also serves to help you put your focus into something more productive then ruminating on a marriage gone wrong.

        • Yes, Sweden is the country of taking care of it’s citizens! There is no outcome that would lead to us starving in the streets, the safety nets would catch us before that. What I hope for is keeping a reasonable standard of living for me and the kids – nowhere near what the kids are used to, but not taking the plunge to subsistance level either.

          My son is in a very good school, close to the new apartment. I do work while he is there, but it’s only part time, and it doesn’t pay very much. If it was just me I could manage, but with the kids and the extra expenses for our son I just don’t make enough.

  • What a generous cheater. You can keep the house but instead he will set you up in an apartment? X attempted to downsize to a studio there weeks before DDay. His exact words were, “I want to downsize to a studio, you can sleep there”. It was a huge red flag and was followed by rage when I declined. His mask was slipping at this point yet I was unaware of his true plan.

    By getting you and the children out of the house and moving you into an apartment he gains control of the home. More than likely he will sell it and disappear leaving you to fend for yourself paying the rent. I would NOT let him control this.

    Record everything he says including threats.

    • Actually, I asked for the apartment. The house is in bad shape, and located far from everything. No matter what happens, I still own half of it, and STBX can’t sell without my consent. The apartment isn’t flashy, but it’s comfortable, close to my son’s school, close to my friends and my family. An extra plus is that I get a fresh start. I won’t have to keep living with the memories.

      About recording the threats: he and OW have been helpful enough to make some of their threats through text messages! Aren’t they considerate? I have saved the chat logs and my brother is keeping copies for me.

  • Swede sounds like making a deal with the devil. I’d be worried. I’d also be wary of playing nice to get what you want – it could blow up in your face. Also, how much are you prepared to suck up when you did nothing wrong? I tried to be nice to my ex to expedite the settlement but I got sick of having to eat shit sandwiches so have gone no contact. Might not work for me but I’ll be damned if I’m going to keep covering for her by doing her work for her so she can appear competent at work.

  • Wow…this is a tough one because there is a crazy-active OW in the picture…but I did negotiate with the terrorist from the very beginning and went through a “mutually agreed” divorce-express through a notary (as is possible in my country). I used his guilt and the children´s well being as a factor but full disclosure: I make more money than he does, I am a lawyer (though not a divorce lawyer) and have divorce lawyer friends who helped me. therefore Cheater was scared of what I could do. I ended up writing my own divorce and representing him as his lawyer (it helped that he is very stingy and wanted to avoid lawyers and the court divorce because infidelity in my country has to be proven —and I had all the proof)

    This is definitely not your case, but I looked up divorce laws in Sweden and what is similar is that you can do it through mutual agreement and avoid the lawyers. I think this is probably what you are doing because you say that you filed together. So maybe my experience might help you because it seems that your husband does want to avoid further problems and paying lawyers. So what I would do, is study up on your rights (you do have a right to half the marital property, child support and support for yourself while you get employed, and can appeal if this is not given to you) and learn how to negotiate with a narcissist (i.e. complimenting him on how good he is as a parent, and that you know he will do the right thing for his family) but at the same time keep the one card that you have under your sleeve which is the information that you have for the OW about the truth. DO you have any love letters or special gifts that your husband gave you during the four years of his cheating? You need something to prove it so that he believes that you may use it against him in case he does not give you what you want. You also need to tell him that he needs to get the OW off your back and not mention her IF he wants you to continue acting nicely and not informing her of the TRUTH. But get everything he promises, that you seem to agree with, in writing . Here you need a lawyer. I am sure in Sweden there must be some type of social service lawyers that you can consult for this procedure when you don´t have your own income to depend on.

    In sum, if I were you I would study up on Swedish divorce laws, consult a lawyer, and keep your own threat of disclosing the truth as your weapon in case he doesn´t live up to his promises. But most importatnly remember that he is not being generous, you have a right to half the marital property and you invested your youth and energy in taking care of his/your children and his/your home while he wasted four years of YOUR money on his affair in China. If Sweden was one of those countries where you could reclaim money spent on an affair you would be a millionaire!

    • BRILLIANT! I love this!

      I would also try to attain as many hard assets and cash as you can while he is feeling generous.

      • Agree. But, be very, very careful about never ever making any explicit threats. The threat must always be done in a way that you can credibly deny. In many cases, I think, the cheater is aware of the power you have in this regard and it may not even be necessary to ever mention it.
        Seems that may be true in your case, as he is volunteering things like extra support etc.

    • Yes, Chumpita, this pretty much it. We are doing this without lawyers. The verbal agrement we have made so far gives me a lot more than half the assets, and a lot more than he would be required to give me of his future earnings too. STBX is very invested in his image as a generous person – he volunteers his time for charity, donates etc. As long as I stroke his ego he is happy to pay for looking good, but if we go to court I would get less. That’s why I am betting on the kibble way.

      Also, his mom is putting pressure on him. STBX has been “kind” enough to give away a little bit of what he has done, and she is mortified.

        • He would have to go to court to do that, once the papers are final, and he would have to have a good reason, like if he got sick or lost his job.

          Another reason would be that he has another baby, but he makes enough that he could have a couple before it would affect anything.

          A bonus: whatever sum we agree on will be increased every year to compensate for inflation and such.

          • Swede, after years of being manipulated by a cheater-narc it feels so good to consciously use the same attitude that got us there to get what we truly deserve and have our own (legal) revenge. The cheater-narc assumes that you are acting in the same codependent nice sweet way that you have because you “love” him, but in reality, at least for now, you are doing that to get a better deal than the law would have it. It may backfire if you are not strong and conscious of what you are doing, but in my case it worked beautifully because I managed to use his guilt on time and to insinuate (not threaten) that if we didn´t do it my way he would have to spend tons more money and time and lawyers. I wanted to get over this quickly because I was terrified that the OW would get pregnant.

            Much strength and many hugs. You will be fine if you use CL´s mantra “trust that he sucks” and don´t buy into his niceness or generosity. He is playing a game that he has been training for for many years. You are just learning but you will win no matter what happens if you get away from him. He will only lose with that crazy OW and the lack of admiration and respect from his original family.

  • My understanding is that in sweden sposal support is generally not awarded EXCEPT when the act of marriage itself has made the spose unable to provide for him/herself. Wouldnt having to quit your job to care for a disabled child count towards that standard? While I know that in sweden usually the two parties to the divorce agree and then just ratify the agreement, I hope that you have a good lawyer that you can discuss these issues with.

  • He is manipulating you. He is hanging the golden carrot of financial security over your head and the welfare of his children ( sick fucker ).

    CL is right. You own half of EVERYTHING !!!
    You may need to quietly play his game while digging through the financial and don’t be suprised if there are hidden accounts and expenses – he could be paying for her lifestyle from your joint assets!

    Document it all silently and lay low. You may end up eating some dainty finger sized shit sandwiches ( the kind my Cheater’s congregation served up to me ), but it will pay off in the end.

    Narcs only go along with things that seem to benifit them. Make him feel as if things are going his way, go behind his back and get a fantastic lawyer and get your ducks in row.

    I agree about the job. Go out and get something. If nothing else it helps to get out of the house and out of your head each and every day !!!

    Hang in there, it will get better. His OW is one of those predatory woman who prey on Western Business men. He will be screwed in the end and karma will kick his ass. But you don ‘to need to kiss hers. Ick.

    • Sweet Liberty! I think you will feel good to work again. I was a SAHM for ten years. I love working outside the home now. I love having control of my future & finances. Being a SAHM with an entitled freak was difficult.

  • Yes, talk to a lawyer and see what you’re actually going to get in an official settlement. Those “gifts” he’s giving you may actually be already yours (as CL mentioned).

    I placated my narc, in order to avoid legal stress. It seemed worth it at the time, but I can’t say I recommend it. It was a soul-swallowing, self-esteem crushing experience that I wouldn’t want to do ever again. I’m still picking up the pieces of my self-worth. I don’t think a one-time apology (of the type that CL mentioned) would erode your self worth, but any kind of a long-term situation very well could.

    If you do apologize, make sure you’ve gotten all the financial papers signed FIRST, all sealed and done with. Once the ink is dry on the guarantee of your financial future, then you can freely “apologize” for staying with STBX for so long….or similar wording. Try to make it something that you actually believe, such as what CL said…that her and him are a great fit (true!) and they deserve to spend the rest of their lives with each other (true!).

    And recognize that as long as you’re sleeping with him, you’re still playing the pick-me-dance.

    • I think I was unclear about the sleeping arrangements. The bed is big and there is no touching whatsoever. STBX is usually asleep when I go to bed, and when I wake up he is gone, since he gets up at 3 am to better match OW’s time zone.

      The marriage became miserably sexless about the time he started texting with OW, before they even met in person. He actually explained to me on d-day that it would have felt wrong to cheat on her… and wasn’t that just another gigant sandwich on the all-you-can-eat shit buffet!

      In retrospect I am grateful for this small mercy, since they didn’t bother with protection.

        • There was no need! She was a virgin!!! She said so, and he could totally tell! And he was really careful not to get her pregnant!

          (There was a scare after d-day. She said she was pregnant, and that she didn’t know if the father was STBX or the other guy. Then she suddenly she said she had lost the baby. Personally, I think she was never pregnant but just wanted more leverage in the triangle)

          • You are believing that a lying sack of home wrecking shit is telling u? And he could totally tell? Swede , i am shaking my head honey… the little homewrecker sounds way too savy and demanding to be a holy virgin…
            He couldnt tell if he was fucking a dead dog vs a virgin… Thats just mindfuck speak to throw u off.
            Maybe I am wrong … But i call bullshit on the virgin story…

              • The couch, my ass , make him sleep in the gutter. Oh, wait. He already has. There is no way this slut was a virgin. Oh, wait, who fucking cares anyway? My bet is she’s a gold digging prostitute. Please go no contact with these two losers.

          • OMG Swede, same story, different chump. Yes, I too had a monogamous cheat, they too didn’t use protection, they too were ‘careful’ (withdrawal), they too had a scare when they left it too late.
            Now I finally finally got my chump head out of my ass and decided that even my masochism couldn’t take these levels of disrespect in order to stay married, he is utterly miserable, despises the OW and regrets everything.
            He is being generous (UK)

            • And being gentle and kind and not sparking narc shame really works for me.
              Also on an emotional path as well (thank you Al Anon) – power struggles just kept the pain levels too high, including the pain of the 100% guaranteed losing.
              So to me it really sounds as though you are doing great. When we are not married to multi millionaires, sometimes there isn’t much extra $$$ to ‘win’.

      • In this you are lucky that he didnt expose you to STIs. I assume infidelity has no bearing on the outcome of your divorce. Otherwise I’d advise to change sleeping arrangement, in the U.S. Sleeping in the same bed is considered condoning his affair. On a personal level I could not stand to have the ex asshole in my bed after the cheating, but if it helps you get your settlement and doesn’t fuck with you, do it

  • Wow, this one takes the cake (the cake nobody wants). Swede, I am so sorry you’re dealing with this convoluted mess. Your STBX is a major shithead and a coward to boot, and his Chinese OW? WTF, man. I don’t get why you would need to have any contact whatsoever with her. How did that come about anyway? And here she is emailing you directly for an apology she should be offering herself on bended knee? I never heard the like.

    Are any of our STBX’s threats in writing? Is there any possible way you could get this recorded to put before the court? You said Sweden doesn’t have spousal alimony, but I can’t imagine any judge on the planet would look kindly on a man who would sell his own disabled son down the river based on how well *YOU* do or don’t facilitate his adulterous relationship.

    I agree with TheClip–get a lawyer. Pronto. Surely there must be someone who can advocate for you on a pro bono basis? This is simply too much humiliation to bear, and the fact that your D-day involved a demand for you to comfort him speaks volumes about the dynamics at hand. Unless you get outside help, I can’t imagine it would get any better. This is one supersonically self-absorbed and entitled asshole, and I pray for you and your kids to find peace and stability as soon as possible. Huge hugs to you, Swede!

      • Apparently OW wanted to have my contact info from the beginning. I guess she wanted to verify what he told her, but he managed to stonewall until after d-day. After d-day STBX was doing the pick me dance for her at the same time as I was doing it for him. It was messy, but at the time it seemed like it would facilitate the reconciliation if I friended her on WeChat and told her that everything was fine and that she wasn’t a bad person. And I did. STBX was hanging over my shoulder, dictating what to write… the next day she texted me again, while he was at work, and I was a little bit too truthful. That was the last I heard from her until a couple of weeks ago when she started wanting to be “friends”. I think what she really wants is 1) verify that the divorce is reallly happening this time and 2) keep the drama going.

        I have met her. She is not a stable person.

        STBX paid for her to visit us in Sweden for a week in 2012. We could afford it, she was a really good friend, he wanted her to meet his family… and hadn’t I nagged him to let me be a bigger part of his life? I was mega-chump. I was SO PLEASED she was coming.

        The week was a disaster. She had some kind of break down as soon as she saw me. She refused to acknowledge my presence, she wouldn’t even come into the house at first. She was crying and hiding in some blackberry bushes in our garden. STBX sat with her and cajoled her, and then he didn’t leave her side for the whole week. In the daytime they went on outings, and the kids and I were not allowed to join. She was sleeping in our living room, and during the nights he “sat” with her “on suicide watch”. I was furious, but the way she acted, I believed him.

        He told me after d-day that they hadn’t started having sex yet, but that they did while she was here. I can just imagine how “wonderful” it must have been for them – no door to close, wife and kids within hearing distance.

        I asked him why he brought her here, and he said it was a mistake. He had hoped that she and the kids would hit it off, and he also wanted to see if she could fit in if he married her and brought her to live here. He wanted to se us side by side, so he could make a decision on which of us he wanted a future with. It was a fucking audition!!!!

            • The man is a sadist.
              I was just thinking how incredibly cruel these cheaters and their affair partners are when i read this bit about him bringing her to your home, and it solidified my feelings about these types.
              If a BS is the most imperfect, deficient spouse in existence, he or she still did not deserve to be treated with the abject cruelty that is part and parcel of cheating.
              The treatment a BS receives is absolutely inhumane. I simply cannot wrap my puny brain around how someone does this to another.

        • Hopefully, she couldn’t stand your kids (and probably wants one of her own). I’d be watching whether he’s trying to make her step into your shoes. Disgusting. Don’t let them take your kids away!

        • Swede, that is some seriously fucked up shit, don’t fuck yourself up any further by caving to thenOW demands. I’m beyond freaked out at the crazy

          • STOP it, stop it all now. This situation is ridiculous. In five minutes all this nonsense will matter, in five years, not at ALL. How would your two children want you to behave? If this happened to them, how would you want them to behave? Come on, this nonsense is not worth your time, your self-worth or your life. CL says, gain a life. There is no honor in trying to apease this broken-ness. Move on with good wishes from the nation. You have a better life ahead and your self respect to keep. F..k him and the white horse (unicorn) he rode in on.

        • What you just described should not be shocking, as it has all the flavor of cheater bullshit. With a liberal sprinkling of fucking with the kids’ heads–of course. What the fuck?? I shouldn’t be appalled any more, but, honey–that is just appalling. No more of that. Holy smokes.

        • Is this for real? She hid in what kind of bushes? She was a virgin and he fucked her (on your sofa I’m guessing since that’s where she slept) without protection and she was suicidal but they still took day trips? Oye. Dude pays to bring a strange bitch over from China why? What the effing eff is WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE? Sweed, I’m so sorry for your experience. This is a new level of mind fuck. Im praying for you to find peace and strength and support and success in breaking free from this hellish situation. I might puke for you, it’s so disturbing. But you do seem to have a good grasp on financial situation, so God bless you on that note. I hope the crazy stops for you soon. It’s a long haul to healthy after this much chaos. God bless and get mighty soon. And I hope you find a way around making nice with the dragon lady. I’ll bet her family doesn’t know she gave her virginity to a married man haha.

        • While it does appear you are on track with the financial aspect of this divorce-I would just urge you to sign and be done with the dirt bag. If he hems and haws threaten to obtain an attorney-he more than likely will not want to pay for that expense. Get the agreements signed and be on your way. Let him sort out the dysfunction with China Doll. Talk about “instant karma” he is in for quite the ride with this piece of work. Also, I tend to be in the minority on this issue but I would not urge him to have a relationship with the kids. No one should have to “beg” their ex to have a parent relationship with their own children. I would also explain to the kids that your very sorry you picked such a louse for their Dad and he has mental problems that cannot be fixed. That way when he blows them off (and he will) they will understand from the get go that Dad has problems and it has nothing to do with them. Won’t take years of therapy for them to come to that conclusion.

  • Swede, I have to echo what others are saying. You need a lawyer managing all of this. If you don’t have legal agreements, you’ll be begging for the promised child support and assets forever. I would keep acting with your STBX, and assure him that you’ll be happy to accommodate the mistress’s “fragility” once the two of you have finished your legal business, but that you both need to take care of the kids and their future (i.e. get those assets in writing) before you move on to the next “important” order of business, i.e. the mistress. I also worry about whether you are getting enough–child support in my state in the U.S. ends at 18. Those years, especially if you are living on a tight budget, will go quickly. Make sure your lawyer helps you think about long term assets as well as child support.

    In regard to the weird demands the mistress is requiring regarding an apology, if or when you ever choose to say any of them, you need to stop thinking of the words you say or write as having any truth value. She is some version of a monster or idiot or mentally ill person. Nothing you ever say to her will ever have any real meaning to her, and it should never have any meaning to you either. You are working to get yourself and your children free of terrible circumstances, and nothing you say will be groveling or humiliating because you won’t ever mean it–it will all just be strategic communication intended to further your own goals. Your telling her she is the Queen of Spain won’t get her a crown, and your “apologizing” won’t make her behavior a whit more acceptable. (And I’m not arguing that you should apologize, I just think you need to realize that you don’t have to keep being a good person and mean what you say to her or care about how she values or devalues anything you say.)

  • Hi Swede, a Brit here with the same ‘I am being generous to you, SAHM’ story (but OW long gone as a ‘mistake’). And the trouble is, I can’t work out whether he is or isn’t.
    What I have learned: it is completely pointless crossing a narcissist. You are 100% guaranteed to lose. A very good resource (don’t laugh) is Al-Anon. They teach you to stay calm and keep the focus on yourself whatever he is doing, whilst treating him with compassion and respect. Alcoholic/narcissist – no difference. Al-Anon has saved me $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in lawyer’s fees.
    Get a lawyer, check the assets and debts, see if what he is offering is generous (I am inclined to believe my offer is).
    If it is, soothe him. Tell him he is a great father, tell that stupid awful OW she is a better mate for him, use the same reassuring but firm behaviour you would a 2 year old. If you EVER expect accountability as from an adult, you will start a power struggle and you will lose.
    Use disclosure to stupid awful OW as your boundary.
    Get out of Dodge.
    And yes, being SAHM means we are dependent on them.
    The ultimate karma is that this man has nooooooo idea of the hell about to be unleashed upon him. If I were him, I would have one of those new contraceptive injections. I seriously hope he doesn’t breed with such an awful creature.

    • There really is little incentive to get a lawyer in the Nordic states (I was in one too as a trailing spouse with two preschoolers). They charge through the roof and then come back and tell you what you already know. Mine told me to go back to my home country whilst I had the chance. The rules there aren’t much better.

      I agree with the approach that you’re taking. Given your legal environment, hanging in until November can only help you get a better deal long run than what you would get by default. Many a time I wished I had been in the UK or US, where the prospects can be much better wrt alimony etc (my ex makes great money now, although it used to be me in that role).

      You also need to consider playing nice, especially if your kids are young and you ever want to travel with them, renew passports, etc. This is a poignant issue in the EU, given the ease of travelling between countries and finding work elsewhere. Remember the Hague Convention. Unfortunately, despite divorce, you still need the fucktard to sign off on any kid-related things. Even if your inner self is screaming to rip his head off with a good swing of a baseball bat, you are better served just staying cool and working through this in your own way, separate to him and her. I will be happy if ever this behaviour is acknowledged as abuse and these bastards can be officially excommunicated on all child-related things.

      Similarly, I agree with ChumpLady wrt the OW. I would try to remove yourself from interacting with her as much as possible. You need to de-triangulate yourself. I would say that the gentlest possible approach to this is best, so as to minimize chance of inflaming matters. You need to fade out of the situation.

      My brother gave me a great quote once, “you’re a woman JJ, manipulate him”. Sigh.

  • I don’t know what the laws are in Sweden, but it’s possible that an apology to the OW might actually hurt your chances of getting the divorce settlement that you deserve because you’re essentially admitting to wrong-doing in the marriage and condoning his affair.

    Don’t make any decisions without consulting with a lawyer.

      • I think in most countries this would be true, but here the courts ONLY look at what is best for the child – and the default position is that both parents should have joint custody and share time as equally as possible. STBX would have to be seriously, physically endangering the kids if it would have any effect on the court’s decision. Infidelity and mental cruelty to the mother isn’t a factor.

        JJ is right about the lawyer being pretty useless in my case, and also about having to have STBX’s written consent on any major decision. I think my only chance is getting out of the triangle as gently as possible. I will NEED an amicable relationship with STBX no matter what agreements we make, and I truly believe that if I don’t challenge him too much he will be content to step back and look like a good father.

        • nightmarish situation isn’t it. I hope at least that you have your extended family nearby. I was completely isolated from all family when this happened, and breastfeeding our 5 month old. It’s been a complete clusterfuck.

        • You know what $$$ there is, you know he is being generous, you know the courts/law won’t help you, you are doing great Swede.
          Keep on keeping on.
          By the way: not quite as horrific as yours, but I also got the ‘I didn’t want to contaminate her if we had a future together’. He brought and f* her in my house, but not when I and the kids were there, that is horrific!

          You are well out of their drama. You go, Swede

    • He may well be worried that Schmoopie may find out he was lying to her, but my guess that’s only the tip of the impression management iceburg. Swede has the goods on him,,,she has a lot of goods on him.

      Swede, the hand you’re holding is way better than you think it is.

  • I totally get negotiating with a fucktard to get the most for your family if you have steely resolve. And, if it is truly worth it.

    My one question. If he died, what would be your outcome? Would you be able to financially survive without him?

    This is how you have to look at your future in negotiations.

    • Wow, this is spot on. Yes, Yes. YES. What if he died? Is the OW entitled to all of his current assets? Would she be able force the sale of those assets? Would she be able to control medical decisions for you and your children? See where I am going with this?

      So – Are the new assets (car, apartment) in your name and your name only?

      Re-read your own letter, particularly this sentence: “STBX came to me in tears, demanding that I comfort him after he found out his Chinese mistress of four years had been cheating on him.” The OW will stop at absolutely nothing. She will take the food out of your babies mouths to feed her babies. She feels entitled and therefore is entitled. You can see this.

      My advice also is to keep playing nice with the EX. I played nice and even wrote the separation agreement to keep costs low. But I vetted it with my lawyer.

      RUN to a lawyer today. Find out the advice.

      Also – I can guaranteed there are assets hidden somewhere. Cheaters give chumps tokens — they save their diamonds for their OW.

      Keep going. You are awesome!!!!!

      • As another idea, and to keep playing nice — why don’t you ask the STBX to write the apology? You can suggest that “after all he knows her the best” and what “will really make her feel better”.

        I personally don’t think anyone should engage with the OW unless you are mentally and emotionally strong. They can be very manipulative and vindictive people. I met with my ExH’s OW because I needed to know what kind of devil I was dealing with. I didn’t understand that at the time but I am glad I did. I got some truths about the affair but mostly confirmation that she was a selfish, entitled and very manipulative person. My ExH and the OW had purchased a home together — and I dropped the bomb on her that it was also legally mine. Guaranteed that the assets the STBX owns in China are also legally yours. The OW definably won’t like to hear this. But play those card close to the vest. I did not and it probably cost me.

      • So far the house and the apartment are in both our names, but it wouldn’t matter. I have a right to half of everything we own or buy until the divorce is final. What I stand to gain is much more, maybe 3/4 of what we already own and about 15% instead of 6% of his future earnings. He has also mentioned that “of course” he will keep paying for our son as long as needed, instead of until 18 (or 21 if the child is still in school).

        • I do not know about in Sweden…but here, a STBX can just as easily Deed his share of property into a OW’s name…he could sign off on ownership although not off of the loan. Then YOU would be owning property with HER instead of with him…and YOU could not sell it w/o her agreement. If STBX simply stopped paying on either loans…then you would have to or risk losing everything. See, there are a lot of “unknowns” that could happen w/o a clean financial break and a clean and final division of assets.

          At the very least, I would get that apartment into my name exclusively. I imagine he did not pay cash for it? Is that why it is in both your names? If he got mad at you, he could stop paying on that loan and you would risk losing the apartment…can you afford to pay without him helping?

          Now this is inconceivable in your mind given that he seems so amicable now. But if he requires that you continue to play along in his schemes and you decide that you have had enough of that, then it could get really ugly really fast.

          I would err on the side of caution rather than being naive. This is where a good Lawyer can advise you and give you all the worse case scenario’s before it is too late to act.

  • The other whore wanted to put me in a rental so she could just take over my life and meet me so we could be best friends! Ha! Stupid bitch! That’s one shit sandwich I wasn’t eating. Apparently the dumb bitch thought my ex was still the boss of me and I would do whatever he wanted and just go away and leave them alone. Not a chance. She’s upset now I call the shots here and she has no say. Never met her will never meet her and fuck her! What the whore and my ex both need is a supreme bully beat down!!!

  • I would tell this whore to go fuck herself one time. Then I would never interact with her sorry ass again. I’ve never seen a whore i felt sorry for yet. Fuck her.

    As for the husband, I would let the court deal with him. No contact as well.

  • Put your mom hat on, these nuts are threatening your babies futures. Make him sign over everything he promised and you need, with a lawyer, paid by him.. Tell him you will inform her of his extra other woman he has had along side her. A lie, yes, oh well your turn to lie. You will also inform her of the STD he gave you recently, another lie, oops. As of this moment he better think of another really good lie to keep her out of your life. In short kick ass. They have and will be harmful to your kids, attack while you can.

  • Swede, listen to Chump Lady! Remember your apology just may not be good enough for the OW and then where will you be? Please find a way to get all her threats and his threats on email, text, or recorded so that you have proof that they are trying to manipulate you.

    Keep your cards close to your chest and take your evidence to an attorney. Then the two of you can send you husband a “this is how it’s going to be” option.

    Sorry you’re in this situation but I’m glad the end is in sight for you.

    xxoo

  • Let the cheater know your only concern is for yourself and your children’s well being. Keep the OW emails for evidence if child custody comes into play. Do not respond to the person he brought into the marriage. If the apology comes up again repeat the above statement. My only concern is…,

    Get your own attorney and do not sign anything unless your attorney views the agreement. There are so many ugly twists to this guy you cannot trust anything he says. The OW has power over you? No. A good response to bullshit is, ” is that what you/she thinks”.

  • I have a very generous cheater too. I have mistook his kindness and generosity for genuine remorse. Just yesterday he told me his reasoning behind giving into all my requests and wants. He has been FEELING SORRY FOR ME!!!!! Oh boy of boy that was hard to digest. DDay was 2 years ago after 22 years of marriage and in these 2 years I have mistakingly thought he wants me back because he still loves me. I guess I am still a Chump.

    • MG

      It’s part of the toxic torture. It will go on unfortunately until you go no contact. And even after that it continues. I have spent a year detoxing and X and the whore and X continue to try to make me suffer. It stings but has no true effect once you refuse to give them any power or control. My daughter confided in me last night after one of these toxic displays and described his actions and conversations as part of his mental illness. It’s sad. Moving on was painful but I’ve finally come to peace with X finding someone equally disturbed. Focus on yourself. Your worth it.

      • They really are TOXIC!!! and yep, all the better reason to STAY NO CONTACT with him.

        well, played on your part, even if it was just being a chump. who cares WHY he was giving into all your requests, just as long as you got all that you wanted. Use his “feeling sorry for you” against him. and go for the jugler.

        i was the one who was “feeling sorry for” exhole. thinking he was missing his boys. i just saw a picture of his oompa loompa hood rat, spending fathers day with her kids, and his ghetto crack whore sister (i would NOT want my kids around his sisters) AND his crazy lying narc mom (who used to call him and say she cant use her arms or legs and she is by herself and needs him to go take care of her!!! umm how did you get your fat ass to the phone then? and he needs to take care of his mom? when his wife is pregnant with his first kid?) AND all i could think of was relief.THANK GOD i do not have to deal with his hateful selfish mother and his hooker sister (in real life, she is a hooker and sells her body for crack or meth). he NEVER could understand why i did not want them around my children. and could only tolerate them in small doses. His oompa loompa hood rat is more then welcome to them. if she wants to be around them plus allow them around her children? well more power to her then. apparently they got a hotel (with a pool for the kids) where his mom/sister AND her kids/husband all live. so happy NOT to be involved with that kind of crazy anymore. interesting enough there was not a single picture of exhole. so either he wasnt even there (which begs the question of who was he doing while she was gone) or his ass is in jail. or i guess he was somewhere drinking while she entertained his sister, mom and her kids. again, nothing i was willing to do.

        sometimes our divorces is really a blessing in disguise. it might have been the most painful thing for me to go thru but at least i do not have to deal with that crazy for the rest of my life plus have those losers influencing my children. i tend to try to keep drug dealers, crack whores and nut cases as far away from my children as i can. nope, i am NOT missing that part at all. hahaha

        • The false guilt has a shelf life for cheaters when they pair up with a disturbed whore. X was doing the false remorse until I threw him out. Once he moved in with the Bar whore everything changed and the mask was off. She fed his rage and fortunately her brain cells were on empty from all the drugs and booze. Her advice sucked. He ended up with the used up vagina. It’s important to have evidence and a good lawyer. Most if what they say is to manipulate. Neither one if them are thinkers. That helped.

  • Swede,

    That is a truly awful and difficult situation! I’d echo CL and many here on focusing on finding a way to be financially independent or protect yourself. Gather information is my encouragement. What resources are available to you and others like you in these situations? What are the social services willing to do to support you in this with your disabled child? What help can a lawyer provide via the legal system? Don’t just take the cheater’s word for it.

    Hugs and blessings along this journey,
    -DM

  • I agree with a lot of the advice offered here today. Even more I believe a great many community assets have been wasted on that whore your Narc has been fucking. He is hiding assets already. Know what he makes before you agree to a settlement. Interview lawyers and ask them what you can expect. You need to get everything in writing and moving out of the family home before it’s done is not a good idea. But do move out of that bed! Cheaters aren’t fair and they don’t care about anybody’s future but their own. Your agreement should address your kids’ futures as well.

  • Swede, I’m just finishing up court and divorce proceedings as we speak. I’m in Canada so the laws will be different here but I also have a child with special needs. You might be able to get extra money due to your son’s needs. Look into a social worker who knows the system. Courts will look at the the fact you’re a single mom now and limited to how much you can actually work because of the huge amount of time it takes to care for a special needs child. In Canada I recieved alimony but there’s also, “extraordinary expenses” due to my daughter. I was awarded almost half my stbx income. Try that route.

    As far as the OW goes, I have not had much experience with the cake eating and the mind fuckery. I got a stone cold abandonment cheater who never looked back. I have not heard boo from the OW. Never even met her. My advice would be to fly under the radar for as long as possible. Remember, you still have all your cheater’s dirty little secrets you say he’s afraid you’ll expose. Use that as your trump card.

  • Really good advice, here…think of your temper or threats as interventions. You can’t afford to lose your head, and most threats aren’t good for anything once you use them. Only if you DON’T, so it takes finesse. It’s hard–they’re outrageous, you get tired, lose it. Don’t. If you lose it, do it deliberately to achieve a goal, on purpose–and let’er rip.

    It’s taken me this whole process to get it that it’s OUR money, etc. Your contributions have value. And this OW is batshit-crazy; I like placating her wo putting anything in writing.

  • My husband had a secretary years ago who had been a stay at home mom So, her husband was a tax attorney and a CPA. Do you see where this is going? He told her he was leaving without paying her a penny and the two kids in college were responsible for their own education. She wound up working for peanuts and losing her 20 room house. She had no skills to fall back on. I suggested a gun to his dick to get the money but my husband frowned on that. She and her kids were left destitute. Her little salary barely paid rent. I hate idiots like your husband but it is pointless. This man is a huge waste of air. We, in the States, can sue but we are usually bound by “no fault” which was designed for women like you. I have no suggestions other than getting a job. I sincerely hope your country won’t let you starve. Maybe you can get all his promises signed quickly so that a court will honor them. If not I suggest you and your kids move here. We can all help you sue the pants off him!

    • A late friend of mine from high school was married to an accountant. Somehow, she managed to take HIS name off the deed of the house and HER namAs my sister tells me, just when he took the kids to Disneyland she emptied the other bank accounts and announced her new relationship.

      Just a reminder that managing household finances are everybody’s responsibility.

      • she managed to take HIS name off the deed of the house and HER nam

        and HER name off the mortgage that financed the house.

  • Swede – you are being played by your STBX and the OW is trying to control you as well as him. Don’t do it.

    She is looking for “honor redux’ for her own reputation. Remember – she’s Chinese – and saving face and honor are still very important in that society. She doesn’t want to appear the whore -so she needs you to say publicly that you were a desperate horrible witch who held back the true love of a man (your man) for a delightful flower of virtue and femininity who just happened to fall in chaste love until passion overwhelmed. And he’s so desperate not to be left alone at the end of the day, he wants you to indulge her and is sweetening the pot pretty nicely to get you to go along.

    Don’t do it -you will lose a measure of respect for yourself if you do. You are no one’s chump. You live in a country where social services will aid you in starting a new life for you and your son. But quit acting like a courtesan yourself – “he is getting me an apartment/he is giving me a generous allowance/he is allowing me to keep comfortable if I am careful” blah, blah blah. Stand UP, take control of your own life and get a job! You aren’t his mistress or his dependent. You are a woman who’s been cheated on by a liar for over 4 years. I know the Europeans are supposedly more sophisticated about cheating and mistresses and all that than we provincial Americans – but I wonder if that’s being said more by the cheaters and the mistresses than the chumps? Because I don’t care where you live – having someone lie to your face and devalue your place in their life by putting another person into your marital bed has got to hurt.

    But you have to give up being babied and spoiled by a “caretaker.” You need to put on your big girl panties as we say across the pond and go get a job, find out how much you can count on social services for support and then get a good lawyer and settle this divorce. He will have to pay pretty substantial child support regardless. You are strong enough to take care of yourself and not drop to your knees groveling in front of a whorish woman for….what? A few extra niceties and some cash? What would that make you if if you did??

    Bottom line – tell your STBX that your willingness to let the divorce happen in an amicable manner is as close to making nice with the OW as he is going to get. If he rescinds the settlement offer? Then off to war you go and how much better to face him straight on. But I think he’s a gutless little man….and I’d bet if you say very nicely “no way” to his request…..he will sputter and stutter and threaten and do nothing. Because, Swede – you have all the high ground here. He’s just a lot of noise.

    And trust me – you’ll love yourself more for standing strong for what you believe is right. Good luck.

    • Well said Char. I think Swede better start looking for a job NOW, because unless she gets a lump settlement I see her getting screwed royally. The mistress will only see that the monthly child support payments is money that she is getting stiffed out of having for herself and if you think she is resentful now….just wait till they are married. The piece of shit husband is setting you up for a fall, do not trust him. He does not care one bit for you or your children. May as well get your Viking hat on now cause you are going to war whether you want to or not.

    • i do not think honor is a big thing in china anymore. i work with someone who was born there and still goes back every so often. he told me it is not as big as it used to be. now that there are more people there and the system is corrupted. they live much like US (only they can not say a word against their government). the younger generations are super spoiled and are not in touch with their parents, grandparents. most children pretty much LIVE at school. he said he hardly saw his parents growing up, he saw teachers more. was in school from 7 am to 7 pm. he is not close with either parent. but the woman in china are strong, spoiled and selfish. they are not scared to speak out and demand what they want, they are used to getting what they want. and i think this OW wants a visa. or something. she is not interested in honor, but probably is interested in money. she thinks husband is the man of money. she is not interested in love either. he is just a means to get her what she really wants. she will laugh if swede caves in. it will only give her power. i am not sure how much influence she really has over the husband and swede needs to be careful of pissing him off. i think she should not tell either of them anything at all. she can pacify husband with agreements (not in writting or anything) maybe say “ok, whatever you say” just to shut him up, but i think she needs to play hard ball on the divorce. ask for the house, ask for the sole custody, zero visitations and the highest child support request she can ask for. let HIM and his lawyer try to talk her down.

    • Char and MrsVain, excellent insight and well articulated. Listen to those words swede. You can do this. We all have had to to varying degrees and not just survived it but are better off without the cheater narcs who manipulate in the most mind fucking ways. Having the OW in your home is truly one of the most bizarre and fucked up things I have ever heard. Do not engage. Do not trust either of them. I know this is hard but get your strength here and go to war as stated above.

  • Simple–Promise you’ll talk to her & apologize AFTER the divorce is final. Then don’t (STBX and OW didn’t honor any vows or social contracts. Fuck ’em).

    • Brilliant! To keep them off your back until the divorce is final a long vacation on his dime would be in order, like touring the US in an RV or renting a place in another country (for the kids! cultural experience/adventure) for a few months.

  • Swede… First of all…HUGGGGSSSSSS
    SECOND: Tell him you will apologoze after the divorce agreement is signed.

  • I agree with the others, get a lawyer, be civil and it’s okay to take advantage of his supposed “good will” but I would NOT, I repeat, NOT engage with OW. She is of no consequence to you. Your only play here should be to get the best possible settlement from this guy for you and your kids. To hell with OW and her motives. Don’t talk to her.. keep your eye on what’s good for you and your children.

  • Swede, I got all of the accommodation talk from my cheater. He desperately wanted to stay but said he would always take care of me and our child, that he would move out into some lonely apartment, blah, blah, effing, blah. Not long after this false hanging of his head, I found out that he had been lying to me for over a year about being in touch with a toxic douchebag friend of “ours” and out of sheer exhaustion from eating his bullshit, I told him not to come home that night. When he called me, the head-hanging was gone. What I got was, “It’s on, you Motherfucking bitch! I will destroy you! How dare you banish me from MY home!” What a prince. My crime was screwing up the narrative in his own mind of how he was trying to be such a great guy after causing all of this destruction.

    Sadly, you and your children are not real people to your Narcissist. You are an extension of him, something to be “dealt with” and how he proceeds with you has nothing to do with being fair, doing right by you, etc. It has EVERYTHING to do with how he will feel about himself. And how it will look to others.

    If you can get your head around that, you should do what provides you with the best outcome for you. Play that bastard like a fiddle. I know it would be torture to “apologize” to his whore, but if you think that will keep him calm and generous – do it. The sooner you get these disordered wastes of skin out of your life, the better. They obviously deserve each other and you deserve the most comfortable life he can provide. He OWES you. When everything is said and done, and you’ve got an ironclad settlement, go totally NC with him and his concubine. You will get the last laugh! Wishing you strength.

    • Narcs are sneaky. I’m afraid the apology may be used by the narc in court to blame the spouse. They have a game plan and this is the ultimate way to destroy a chump. Accepting blame for their behavior? NEVER!!

      • I agree- there are WAAAY too many variables out of your control here , Swede. And they both hold you responsible for their choices- makes me sick!!! You could end up taking all responsibility for 0 compensation. Also, what about your dignity, your soul. If this story becomes validated, what example are you making for your children? Idk- i am stuck in a situation right now too, so I get it. Bound to a hollow Union for financial reasons- I get it- and it’s my dignity, my life’s story and most importantly the example I am setting for my children that compell me to continue to find a way out… Dignity and values in tact.

  • Cheaters give you exactly what they want you to have. Its what they figure they have to give you to get what they want. Tread carefully. Lawyer up, do the bibliotherapy of finding out what your rights are. Know them, demand them, take care of you and your kids.

  • So… how do you say “Go f*ck yourself!” in Old Norse? Because that is what I’d be telling both of those creeps. They are despicable people, and you ought to go No Contact with them as soon as is reasonably possible. Lawyer up, and do NOT believe ANYTHING that they tell you.

  • I would also suggest telling her the truth, but only in a way you find acceptable and fitting your dignity.

    “You’re right. I shouldn’t have stayed with him for so long when he’d clearly moved onto someone else. You clearly deserve each other. I hope you two stay together forever.”

    While this sounds like you’re bowing to her demands, all you’re saying is, your marriage should have ended sooner (it would have, had you known about OW) and he and this lunatic DO deserve each other and you hope that they make each other miserable for a long long time.

    But I do agree with everything CL advised. Stop looking at this as STBX being SOOOO generous and good to you. because he’s just doing what he’s been doing all along, playing the nice guy as long as you don’t cross him. The minute you try to behave in a way that shows you to be independent or deserving of dignity? He takes the rug out from under you. That’s not what a good generous person does. Take your power back.

    Hire the meanest pit bull lawyer Northern Europe can provide and go for his Swedish meatballs. And if you can’t do that, you’re going to have to play the game a bit because some of players are clearly not playing with a full deck. You’re have to appease a bit, but you can do it while maintaining some dignity. Once you make your non-apology, play as clueless as you can. OW doesn’t see your words as a true groveling acceptance of your shocking guilt? Make the big cartoon kitten eyes and say, “But I told her the truth, I AM sorry I stayed with you. I don’t know why she doesn’t see how sorry I am!”

    He’s not going to want to step out of his role of Lord Bountiful. And if he does, just keep playing clueless until the divorce decree is settled.

  • I am so sorry you and yours have been put in this position! Can you prove STBX and OW have put these demands on you? To lie and make your needs smaller in order to protect your family from further devastation? This is emotional and financial blackmail!! Sell your dignity and I will set you up nicely?!? Agh! Can you get these ‘terms’ in writing? I wonder if your lawyer can help you expose them for the POS’ they are? Would a judge would grant custody to a man who clearly puts the selfish needs of himself and a stranger before his own flesh and blood? I think it’s worth looking into- Idk- this is just so wrong!!!

  • Actually, I would never tell a whore what went on within my marriage, no matter what. Let the bitch guess. She is obviously insecure and doesn’t trust him, lol, but then again why should she? What she doesn’t know will drive her crazy(er). It will also give you more leverage with the cheater. The potential of doing something, i.e.,the threat of telling her is usually worse than the action itself.

  • One of my mottos is “If they’re talking about it, it’s not happening.” No man reveals his divorce strategy in advance. Especially a cheater. The settlement he proposed is a ruse to get you to serve cake to his Lotus Flower and get back in her good graces. You will get nothing even if you “apologize”.

  • Swede-Chump, I have not read the other replies, so if I’m repeating anything, please excuse me.

    First, has your STBX or the OW done *any* of this blackmail bullshit in writing???? Handwritten, printed, email, or text?? If so? I would think you could nail him/them, big time. This is assuming Swedish courts don’t go for blackmail. Here in the US – at least in my county and state – a judge would not like this AT.ALL.

    If you have a good amount of tangible blackmail evidence that would definitely get him/them in trouble – I would say => FUCK. YOU. STBX/OW.

    If you do not? First – DO NOT SLEEP WITH HIM ANYMORE. Here, when you do this, you are considered CONDONING the cheating. NOT. GOOD. And even if you DID have evidence of blackmail, this *could* put dents in your argument, maybe.

    No one knows your STBX like you do – but – I’m not sure even YOU know him. However, if in your gut you felt it was absolutely necessary to “go along for the ride” with this blackmail shit, you could just say something like => “Dear OW. I know that you and STBX are in love, and feel destined to be together. I wish you the best of luck from here on out.” Nothing more than that. There’s NO apology, no communist admission to something you didn’t do, for the “greater good”, lol, !!!

    PS – Check with your attorney and see what he/she thinks. This probably goes without saying.

  • Swede
    Do not underestimate the motives of cultures you know nothing about. You have no idea the cunning machinations behind this woman. This woman is crazy and your dumbass STBX is following her in the crazy orbit. Don’t get dragged in. Lawyer up. Do not trust him at all.. Do not believe what he is saying or promising. Stall her off. Give her an obligatory yes I agree just to stall her off. Nothing in writing. Again LAWYER UP.

  • I’m still stuck on ‘STBX in tears, demanding that I comfort him when his mistress cheated.’ WTF? No tears for you, for your children? Take to heart the suggestions made by CL and CN. Being financially dependent on him is pretty scary stuff, and I understand having to walk that thin line in case you piss him off and then he cuts you off. Go, get that written agreement before his madness wears you down. Others have suggested the ‘let’s secure our children’s wellbeing first, then the OW,’ and I agree. It’s hard to out-narc a narc if you’re not one by nature. Two things I do know: if things are going ok, at any moment and without warning, my STBX will stop answering calls or texts,or move out of state. He likes to cause pain because he likes to, and the surprise element makes it sweeter. Don’t think for a minute your STBX isn’t capable of taking off to China without a word. That, and shit sandwiches taste like shit. Good luck. I hope you kick ass.

    • I still can’t get over the skank blaming Swede for wasting her youth!!!!!! As I stated in a previous reply, do not trust these people, they are setting you up for a big fall. Your pig of a husband is being accommodating and generous right now for a reason and it is not because of the “required” apology. Any man that threatens to make his kids suffer the consequences is not a man, he is a piece of garbage. I get that lawyers are expensive but you cannot afford not to obtain one.

  • I went aggressive. The thing is that most these guys aren’t just cheaters and liars in the sex department. They are that way in all areas of their life, so you can usually find it in their business practices. If you can, then that scares the shit out of them.
    As to the current situation, don’t write the letter but pretend you will. Massage his ego if needed. “Writing this just seems like the final goodbye and I’m not ready yet.” Whatever you need to do to delay until signing and compile evidence. Ask him for an email on what he thinks you should say specifically (you’re too upset to even know what to write, etc). It’s 4 months. Make sure the new place, car, etc are in your name. Remember that in all likelihood he will totally disappear from your kids life after the divorce and factor that in. Write to him about your concerns about lying, how you aren’t good at it. If he sent you loving emails, you can send this back to him as an example of how hard this lying would be for you. Not, of course, as any sort of threat- but, remember that they often start to believe their own bs and forget that their is proof of its untruth.
    The thing is, you are involved in a high stakes game. The truth is the current trump card you hold.

  • Another card you may be holding is public exposure. Most companies don’t want the publicity of employees who abandon their wife and disabled child for a mistress in China.

  • Also, try to avoid seeing him in person or talking on the phone. Tell him it is too emotional for you. That usually gives you some space to clear your head a little.

  • why are you leaving your house? is it paid for? how much is owed on it. i say you keep the house. if anything else you can sell it later. and keep all the furniture. why would he get to keep anything at all. he is the one who broke the marriage. let him run off to his chinese lover, let her take care of him. kick him out and tell him to move in with her. in return, you will not tell her anything at all. as long as HE LEAVES you alone, then you will not say a word to her.

    if she is going to be that batass crazy, i dont think you owe her anything. so what if she is building her life on his lies (just like you did). any woman who calls THE WIFE is a piece of shit. just the fact that YOU are THE WIFE, she has zero rights to call you demanding anything from you. in my mind, she just fucked herself and deserves your husband. let her have him.

    i am not sure what the laws are in sweden, but i would say go for it all. take the house, the retirement, the 401k, the vacation house, the car, the child support. i would also ask for sole custody and zero visitation. after all the judge has the option to say no. i bet if you start playing hard ball, he will change his tune. again, not knowing what the laws are there, but you should have all that power.

    sounds like you need to at least TALK to a lawyer. is there a free consultation?

    how horrible for you and i am super sorry you are dealing with this. what a horrible man, husband and father.. i cant believe that he had the balls to go crying to YOU HIS WIFE when his girlfriend was cheating on him. and then to have the OTHER WOMAN actually CALL YOU!!! huh. that is beyond crazy. i wish you well.

  • Another Avenue might also be to look into the cost of care for your disabled child and calculate what half would be.

  • It appears that the government in Sweden should be paying you also to stay home with your child. I would also look to resources with advocates for disabled children as far as legal issues regarding support and custody.

  • Swede,
    You are smart to reach out for help. In Gavin De Becker’s Book “the Gift of Fear” he mentions ways to be victimized. Your stbx did what is called “created indebtedness”…he appears to be generous so he can make it hard for you to say no to him. You “owe” him. according to his logic. This is a great tip off that you are going to be victimized even further… please help yourself and your children. Good luck.

  • Chalk another one up for the offshore ladies, trawling for a man to sponsor them in the West. Another poster said it right — this is all about asian pride/loss of face. Tragic. What a dupe for him to get suckered in by such a creature, and for sex? Duh. Guys just have a blind spot when those paintd red lips are poised for action.

    Most important: get a lawyer. Now. Don’t let the fucktard screw you and the children over. A lawyer will put together a good court case and no judge in his/her right mind would rule unfavorably against a chump and her disabled child. This guy is your adversary, NOT your beloved husband.

    A ex boyfriend of mine had an offshore import who was similar – she kept insisting he text me and ask for confirmation that I was no longer “interested” in him. I texted back f*** o*** and get over yourself. I didn’t have to worry about child support, so I mocked her till she rolled over.

    While it is understandable that your first priority is child support, that can be court ordered. No “amicable” settlements – what a douchebag to hold you ransom.

    • I don’t care where they live or what they think. Women who get their “strength” through whoring or men or sex are not strong. They are weak. Any slut can open her legs or her mouth or show her tits. Even dogs can do that shit.

  • I agree with others that your STBX has hidden assets. If an attorney can’t be of much help given the laws in Sweden, perhaps a forensic accountant could give you some additional leverage by uncovering hidden assets. Either way, I absolutely agree with the collective wisdom here that you should not give in to any of his demands (regardless of if or how you might do so) without having assets signed into your name and legally yours.

  • Be prepared for the worse case scenario.

    Is the apartment (and car) exclusively in your name…is it paid for outright too? If not, or if the monthly payments are not affordable for YOU with very minimal financial help from him (including renovations that it will need) then:

    Remain in the family home…he cannot legally (or otherwise) throw you and the children out. Tell your soon to be ex that you changed your mind and that it will be too traumatic to move any time in the near future, and that it would be best for him to move into the apartment himself…it also makes him appear to be moving in the “right” direction as far appearances for China doll. It is highly unlikely that he will do anything to fix that apartment up once you are in it…so let him do that for himself. It is quite probable that he intends to bring China doll to your country and move her into whatever he still owns after the divorce dust settles. I would bet that her cheating on him was a ploy to get him moving quicker for what she wants…and has him in a panic.

    OR…tell him that you will move AFTER all the renovations are completed AND it is exclusively in YOUR name ONLY and paid for outright. You OWN half the family home, so you should get that SAME half value in an investment for your half and not owe anything up to that value.

    Once you move out of the family home without everything in place, you might not be able to get back into it…so think twice and act once.

    Get OUT of that bed with him!!! This makes it legally appear that you AGREE with what he has done against you.

    Do NOT contact OW or respond to her. Each time you do, she get more to work with against you…remain a mystery well cloaked behind your husbands lies. She is trying to “profile” you…and if you say something she does not like, your husband will likely stab you financially in the back as if it was YOUR fault that he is having trouble with her. Let HIM control the narrative since he has been doing that all along.

    Tell your husband that you cannot see yourself as being an accomplice to helping him manage his own love life…that you are quite confident that he is able to handle her on his own. 🙂

    We are all betting that he has FAR more assets than you know about…so do not be afraid to conduct this as a business transaction. Make sure you OWN the car, apartment (with renovations completed) and get enough child support to carry you until you are fully employed. This means long term financial care regarding your son and future education allowances for your daughter.

    Do nothing and agree to nothing that you would not be proud of ten years from now.

    • I wish I had read that last line Sweetz “Do nothing that you would not be proud of ten years from now,” a year ago at divorce. I have huge regrets for being chumped at the clerk counter when narc bullied me into submitting docs that looked like we made the same income. He forgot to submit high income from a special side job. But I agreed and am responsible for believing his VERBAL commitment to pay child support. Wow. Still can’t believe how Chumpy I was to the bitter end. Now I am fighting a war to modify and it’s miserable. Trust this site swede, and don’t believe for one second H has your best interest at heart. There’s a lot of evidentiary experience being given to you here.

  • Oh, I just read way above that you are happy about the apartment. Good for you then! It “seems” like things are moving in the direction that is acceptable for you under these circumstances. Just make sure that the renovations are paid for by him quickly (before she gets there), and the apartment is exclusively in your name…as well as the car that he said he would get for you too.

    My thoughts are that China doll is coming to town soon and will be sharing some visitation with your children at some point. It might not be a wise thing to be telling her to “F” Off as those w/o children could happily do. Always keep your dignity intact regardless of what others are doing…for everything else, there is Mastercard.

    It is quite possible that she will also take over the finances for him as you have always done…are you prepared for what that means?

    Is there a way to make sure that what he has promised to give can be secured BEFORE she gets there, and to make sure that she cannot withhold the child support from you? Can there be a “direct deposit” set up that she cannot access? This might be done through his employer so that it never reaches her hands.

    When all is said and done, go no contact. Otherwise, you will be pulled into their drama once she starts taking her total Dynasty Rule in his life.

    • I think it more likely that STBX moves to China where he can beThe Big VIP Man (and the climate is much nicer), but if she moves here, then I really feel sorry for her.

      She doesn’t speak Swedish and her English isn’t very good either. She knows noone here except STBX (and arguably me). She has no way of getting a job. She would be totally dependent on a man who lies to her even more than he lies to me, and who will support her as long as he is happy, but already doesn’t trust her with any control over money.

      I think there is no risk at all that he would have her manage their household finances.

      • Do you think it will bother her at all that she has to be dependent on a husband? I don’t…I think that is a more Western way of thinking. If she marries him, what will THAT do to the way property is divided if she decides later to divorce him AND has a couple of kids in tow? Can she get a “cut” of what was rightfully half yours?

        Do you think it would be better to make a “clean” financial cut (division) regarding the properties BEFORE they marry? That is, do you intend to own the house and the apartment together with your STBX regardless of him getting remarried?

        Does your husband speak Chinese?

        Perhaps you should go speak to a Lawyer privately regarding this before settlement is finished?

      • Swede Chump please stop feeling sorry for her (them). Remember she has threatened you and helped destroy your marriage? She doesn´t feel sorry for you, please don´t feel sorry for her. You are too nice and that is what they have been taking advantage of.

  • CL, I think Swede-Chump needs to look at what is possible with Swedish law. Maybe his money isn’t her money legally.

    Also, returning to paid work when you have a disabled kid isn’t the same thing as when your kids aren’t disabled. Maybe her kid will get better care from her and maybe in Sweden she can get some kind of allowance for caring for him.

    Basically, Swede-Chump, I think you need to get really good legal advice. If you can get more money by being nice to the OW, go for it.

    Do not feel sorry for the OW and think you need to warn her. Yes, he lied to her, but she knew he was married and had, you know, a disabled kid and a wife who depended on him. Wanting him to leave you so she can have babies is just sick.

    I think knowing what is best to do is complicated. It might be that your son will be better off if you suck it up and can keep taking care of him. What kind of disability is this? How long will the support go on? Can your husband change the agreement after November? What happens if between now and then he changes what he’s saying? Will it help your son more in the long run if you earn money now and build up your ability to earn money? How does any of this affect your retirement (in the US, how much you work and earn affects your Social Security benefits, although if you’ve been married long enough, you can get benefits through your husband – but Americans really need to have some additional savings as well as Social Security)?

    Are there any other assets you can ask to have put in your name now? Can you get any agreements in writing now and would they count legally?

    I’m also wondering about this whole she wants you to apologize to her thing. Maybe what’s really going on is that he wants you to confirm his story and pretend you don’t mind her breaking up your family so that she’ll stay with him.

    • Well, I’ve read your comments above and it sounds like you know what you’re doing legally and you do need him to agree and give you the money. I’m still wondering if the agreement you make at divorce about his earnings would be something he could change later? and if so, would you have to keep helping him lie to the OW and being nice to her?

      I feel a little sorrier for her – imagine having to audition and meet the guy’s real family. No wonder she hid in the bushes and felt suicidal when she saw he had a wife and family already. But in the end, she went forward with trying to break up his family. She’s basically a gold-digger. You don’t owe her the truth.

      Also, I’m glad you have your mother-in-law on your side. She probably cares about her grandchildren, too.

    • Hello i do feel your pain. I am a sahm for 18 years. My soon to be ex decided he was in love with his chinese girl at his work that worked in his cafeteria. She too knew he was married and gave him the ultimatum of separating from me or she won’t sleep with him.

      I contacted her and she fled back to china from ontario but my ex was in love and a year and half now still waiting for the papers to be signed and the house to be sold. It was such a rush before?

      He has gone to visit her in China and for all i know she is back here. I am sure she thinks he is rich since being a manager in an automotive company but nope and he will be even poorer soon. Her dying father even sent for him to meet them? I guess they really don’t care who there daughter steals as long as she can go to Canada and get to stay! My head still spins at the thought of it lmao

      Please stand up for yourself. You don’t need to be friends with either one of them! This isn’t high school and like everyone says read up on the laws. Knowledge is very powerful. Oh she even told my ex to send her love to my daughter. She has never met her and she stole her father. Who says that. They are screwed and she as well told him she would kill herself if he left her.

  • Upon reading this letter and all the comments, I got a few to add myself.
    Why are you still talking to the OW? Shes half a world away, you don’t need to be cavourting with the unstable fuckwit which is her. Block her on all forms. If your soon to be ex complains, you just have to say “I have nothing to say to her – the focus is on us and our divorce proceedings” or “Talking to her accomplishes nothing in our life” There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to be talking with her – she of course doesn’t deserve an apology for ‘ruining’ her life. If she didn’t want her life ruined, maybe she shouldn’t have shacked up with a married guy who’s from halfway across the world? But I guess – its never her fault right?
    I worry about the sentence where you said “They fight, he cuts her off from the money”. I worry that he will do the same thing to you – that the house/apartment are his bargaining chips. Doubly the reason why you should be “I have nothing to say to that woman” – because really, there is nothing you need to say to an unstable slut (and yes, her behaviour at the visit to you guys in Sweden tells me everything). That he might try to pull the rug out from underneath your feet if he chucks a tantrum. You need this stuff documented in the divorce decree – and that apartment, at least, needs to be 100% in your name.
    I second the thoughts that she’s visa-hunting – gold digging skank. She sounds seriously unstable. And you don’t need to appease unstable ‘precious little flowers’ like her – its something you will always lose on. Get your shieldmaiden gear out and cleave through that crap.

  • Yes, no contact with whore. What’s interesting is that she cheated on your POS STBX. What this tells me is that she probably “entertains” for a living and just wants a better life. Two Narcs and Happily Never After.

  • Swede-Chump, that is one crazy-ass dance with the devil they want you to do. I wonder if you are getting the whole story about what has been and is still going on with STBX and his Chinese girlfriend. Something is very very off, and I can’t tell if it is just “off” simply because they are both malignant narcissists, or “off” because there is a whole lot going on you do not know and that may soon be rearing its ugly head (as if you haven’t had enough). As sick as that girlfriend sounds, I wonder whether any meeting or discussion with her could possibly end well or help anyone at all. That kind of pathological personality would not, I think, react well to any contact with you, and you could end up “failing” to properly lie or pacify her, leading your STBX to become vindictive to you and your children. So I agree, put that off until after the divorce and its terms are final.

    Like one of the commenters above, I too am a lawyer but not a divorce attorney, and I too got my own divorce attorney who drafted the property settlement agreement and gave me advice, and then I negotiated directly with my ex. He was also too cheap and too afraid of me to even get his own attorney. And I got him to waive significant alimony I would have owed him, and had the quickest divorce imaginable.

    So how did I do that (besides that I am a lawyer myself)? Well, when the ex left and I realized he was a narcissist or sociopath, I decided I had to try to figure out how to protect myself and my kids. I researched “how to manipulate a narcissist” online and read everything I could get my hands on, and I came to realize that I still had something my ex needed or wanted from, me– that my ex was what I call a “hero-narcissist” and that I had adoration that I could offer him….and you know, as unbelievable as it sounds, he just lapped up the idea that he was my savior and my destroyer all at the same time.

    But Swede-Chump, it is a terrifying and soul-draining dance, which you have to know will blow up in your face if you do it for very long. And I am also concerned that the people you are dealing with are so unstable that things will blow up anyhow, no matter how,you try to appease. I have heard of cheaters quitting their jobs, moving many continents away, and forgetting all about their ex and their own children seemingly overnight. It’s call the narcissist’s discard, look it up, it’s mind blowing. So you have to protect yourself and your children, you have to be very smart and decisive, you have to have a game plan. Most importantly, I think you have to move quickly to get everything in writing, as irrevocable as possible, in your name, and signed on the dotted line before his crazy life and this crazy situation blows up again (and it will).

    (((Big hugs))) you will get through this. Stay strong for yourself and your children.

  • Swede,
    Something doesnt add up. You state that she was a virgin but he was upset that she was cheating… And she is a wallflower… But making demands.
    And forgive me … But you seem ok with all this. U say it will be good to make a new start in the apartment … That u co own with him. Not a fresh start. And u seems ok to live off what this man decides to hand to u. You seems confident about the finances… But yet he has lead a double life.
    I hope it all works out for u. And maybe i am looking too much into yr situation… But something isnt sitting quite right for me. But thats my chump radar going up
    I wish u well .

  • Thank you everyone for your insights. Not everything was relevant to my situation, but almost everything was helpful. I must admit that I’m both more reassured and more scared than before.

    I have been commenting in this thread but I would like to make a summary.

    Legal stuff: I have a right to half of everything we own or buy or earn until the divorce is final, no matter whose name is on the deeds. I have no right to anything he earns after that. It doesn’t matter what we have or haven’t said or done to eachother. OW and the infidelity is not considered at all in this. Neither is our son’s disability or the fact that I gave up my career to care for him, thereby enabling STBX to concentrate on his.

    He does have to pay child support, but the amount is supposed to be negotiated in good faith between the parents. If we can’t agree, then it is time for “cooperation talks” with a social worker at the family court. If that fails it is time for the lawyers and the judge. I would certainly get less than we are discussing now. Probably A LOT less. My best shot is to flatter STBX into giving me a good deal before we get to that point.

    No matter what happens we won’t starve in the streets. There are public support systems in place, and we are already benefitting from some of them. What I’m playing for is staying a bit above that level. It’s not just for me. The statistics are grim. Kids who grow up at subsistence level have a much greater risk of all kinds of bad things happening in their future, and children with special needs are doubly at risk. It’s worth eating some calculated shit sandwich if I can avoid that, and my financial situation won’t be any worse for trying.

    OW stuff: I don’t believe for a second she was a virgin, or that she is an innocent wallflower, but this is what STBX believes. I believe she saw her chance at a better life and grabbed it with both hands – and I guess that could look like love if you are selfish enough? She doesn’t want to be a step mom to kids only 13 years younger than her and she doesn’t want to live in cold, foreign Sweden. Besides, if she moves here she can’t show off to her friends and family.

    She does have some kind of mental disorder though. She needs to be center stage. I am not going to have any contact at all with her unless I absolutely have to.

    STBX stuff: Patsy’s post about never crossing a narcissist rang very true to me. The pattern with STBX is obvious when I look back without my chump glasses. I believe that neither I nor the kids are real people to him. I am clutching at the straw that his need to look good and be admired will make him do right by us. Gently, gently, smiling all the way…

    Me stuff: Up until my decision to divorce my emotions were a roller coaster. I’m not saying that it is all smooth sailing now, but it’s certainly easier to remain calm now that I no longer think that there was ever a marriage to save. I know that the man I thought I married never existed. For the longest time I felt completely off balance, crying myself sick over which parts of our life together were true and which were false. The Chump Lady post http://www.chumplady.com/2013/10/standing-on-lies/ helped me A LOT with getting my feet back under me – if he was real or fake doesn’t matter, because I know that I was real the whole time.

    The posts about kibbles, cake and genuine remorse vs fake were also a real eye openers. Now I DO trust that he sucks, and the meh is coming closer every day.

    Thank you all for your support.

    • I wouldn’t worry about achieving Meh now, if I were you. Kind of unreasonable expectation given the circumstances, but the focus should be getting legal ducks in rows and protecting yourself and your child.

      The rest of that is pure nonsense/cheater drama.

    • Hey Swede, at the end of the day you need to do what your gut tells you will work, trust your intuition. There is no perfect answer, you may be wrong or you may be right, do the best you can. Jedi hugs!

  • This story has really struck a nerve for me for some reason, especially coming so close after the Other Woman Will Destroy Me one. I just really hate these bitches. They seem to be a new breed of remorseless, proud to be a whore wing nuts. I guess all we really can do is stand united in our beliefs that cheating is always wrong and that cheaters are pathetic losers. No excuses, no exceptions. When someone says differently, I call them out. The media, culture , and the reconciliation industry need opposition and I guess we’re it.

    In Suede Chump’s story, these people are truly just unbelievable monsters. It sounds like she should get what she’s entitled to under the law either way, so no need to communicate with the losers. The children are not going to be covered by child support for that much longer based on their ages, although the disabled one might. I agree with everyone that this guy will probably cut and run and never be seen before long.

  • I think some serious cultural misunderstandings have been displayed in parts here. I think Swede kinda knows what to do – NOT APOLOGISE – and that in many countries outside of the US that lawyering up is not always the best course of action. Yes, by all means get good advice. But going for the jugular can often mean you lose big portions of any settlement. November is both a long way and not that far off! This is one case where I think playing your cards very close to your chest may work. But I would be clear that NC and no apology are the bottom line if he wants his pathetic narrative to stay intact with the wing nut. Just get the damn divorce done and get the hell out of the asylum! Believe it or not, CN the occasional hybrid unicorn exists and the guilt the disordered fucks sometimes feel does give them cause to behave about assets. My dad “gave” my mum more than half in their divorce. Not that I recommend counting on it!

  • The only comment from ChumpLady I was not happy to hear is that people who are stay at home parents are taking an enormous risk. That depends on which State you live it because in Maryland if they have a career they put on hold they can get a lot of Alimony to get that career jump started again.

    But there is another side to it! In my case the stay at home parent (my now x-wife) was the one who cheated on me. She was a narcissist before I married her but she did a fantastic job of blinding me and I did my best to blind myself. She had an affair our entire last year we were together and I was stupid to believe she was not cheating on me when I found out about the massive amounts of phone calls. To deflect the attention she got from me exposing the affair she convinced everyone (including our daughters parents friends) that I was abusing her for years and had abused (and sexually abused) our daughter. I fought every step of the way and it cost me about $47,000 in attorney fees for my side alone. This far exceeded the assets that we had to split (outside of my retirement account). She did all of this so her friends would not pay attention to the actual adultery. The kicker to all of this is in both Domestic Violence trials physical evidence proved she was lying (not my testimony but actual physical evidence) and the Maryland State Attorney General told me it was to small to prosecute and if he was to prosecute people for committing perjury then half the state would be in jail. Of course I had a big WTF moment and thought to myself, well if you actually did prosecute maybe half the state would not lie under oath.

    So people who work full time are also taking a big risk that their stay at home Spouse with the kids will also get board and run around with an affair!

    If I ever get married again, prenup! No way I am giving anyone half of everything I bust my but for again unless I die.

    Thirteen years wasted and she is still trying to convince a court that I abused her. Just about ready to sue her for harassment, defamation of character and attorney fees for all the trials if she continues with this crap just to cover up her adultery.

    • The risk goes both ways. Post-nup. Infidelity clause. You’re a SAHM and you cheat? Give up alimony. You’re a SAHM and you get cheated on? Alimony, divorce settlement. Work it out. Don’t take the risk. I don’t voice this opinion lightly. In the US we have crap policies for working parents. I understand the urge to SAH parent, especially if you’re a low wage earner and childcare costs make working a joke. Still, IMO, work. Even if it’s part time. Keep your skills current. I see too many SAHM on these pages who are fucked. And I see good men who get chumped and stuck with alimony.

      It’s a bad risk, IMO. Protect yourself with a post-nup if you agree to SAH and don’t marry without a prenup. (I have one. I don’t love my husband any less. Nor he me.)

      • Thank you, I already reached the bleh stage and have a girlfriend in my life. Of course my X is super nosy trying to find out things about her and compare my GF to her. It is weird and stupid! I know we will end up in court again in 9 months because she just wont stop. She is going through her usual cycle right now. She was happy the day of the divorce because I had to pay her $36,000 from the house but a few weeks after that she realized she had to pay almost all of it to her attorney and debts she made for herself (which I warned her about when this all started). So now she is back to making everything difficult for our daughter and of course my daughter feels sorry for her mother and if she had to choose would live with mom instead of me but the Judge ruled that he did not think that was in our daughters best interest and over ruled my daughter’s wishes and made it 50/50. I know financially I will recover over the next year or two and she will remain in shambles until she finds the next idiot guy she can bleed (well she currently has the guy she cheated on me with). Now she does have one issue which she is not happy with, my alimony stops if that guy starts to sleep over at her place or she sleeps at his place.

        Oh and in Maryland adultery does not mean anything really other than you can get a divorce faster and it sometimes effects how much alimony is given (but it never ends it).

        • Lothos, holy moley, that’s horrible! Your poor daughter! Being used like a pawn in this hideous way is just–I have no words. I agree with CL–whatever amount of money you had to forfeit to get yourself rid of this freak show is well worth it. Boy, how much does it say when a judge overrides a child’s wishes following a sexual abuse charge? He or she must have recognized how truly fucked up your ex is.

          I am so sorry you have had to go through all this. Let’s hope your ex-wife’s sleepovers start pronto. Does your daughter know the truth?

          • Yes my daughter knows about it. Her mother took her on a few dates and tried to convince my daughter they were random chance encounters. Starbucks and Dave & Busters were their two favorite random by chance encounter areas. My daughter is only 11 right now and is to young to still grasp what is going on. Her mother tells her it is all lies that I am saying and not true and tells her this guy is just a friend (that comes over a lot). I warned my X that some day our daughter will start to dig and want the full truth and that she is better off to come clean now rather than waiting because if our daughter does this when she is older she will realize how horrible her mother really was.

            Well its not my problem anymore, I gave her mother advice and moved on. Her defense is the natural way narcissist deal with it by deflecting and posting the blame right back on you so they do not have to face their own issues.

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