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Dear Chump Lady, Why is he suddenly being nice?

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niceguyDear Chump Lady,

I am so confused. I am going through a divorce. Eight years of marriage and the discard was sudden and brutal.

I am just getting over the crazy shit that has happened. I have been smeared as the person who is having the affair, so no one will speak to me. I have evidence, but I have to wait till after court to clear my name. He has been awful to me, gaslighted me into almost committing myself to hospital so he can have the house to himself, and people believe it’s me. So I let go of it.

Then, as we have to share a house till the finances are finalised, he has suddenly put on the overly nice person mask as if nothing as happened and we are not going to court in four weeks time to slug it out. This confuses me — why be suddenly so nice to me? What is going on?

Help as my mind is getting crazy and confused again.

Polly

Dear Polly,

Someone once described narcissists this way: “Come here closer… so I can slap you.”

If he’s beckoning you nearer, you can guarantee there’s a slap coming. The “nice” act is to conceal the forthcoming slap. He wants to lure you into complacency, so your guard is down. Easier to manipulate you that way.

Oh, Chump Lady, you’re so cynical! Ascribing evil motives. Maybe he’s just really conflicted at his relationship ending and feeling a bit sorry.

Look, anyone who accuses you of cheating (a classic cheater move) and assassinates your character and gaslights you is  not your friend. That seems like such a patently obvious sentence to write, but if I could scream advice at chumps from the roof tops (and hey, I kinda do) THEY’RE NOT YOUR FRIEND! would lead my apocalyptic sermon. Just because you once loved this person, does not mean they wouldn’t step on your neck to get what they want.

And because you probably do still love them (despite yourself), they’ll play that for everything it’s worth, sidling up to you to get shit — your money, sex, your good opinion of them. Whatever it is they want, be suspicious. That’s why the advice here is go No Contact. But you’re living with him, so you’re going to have to be extra mighty with boundaries for a month.

Is there no sofa you can sleep on? No hotel you can lodge yourself at to avoid the mindfuckery? It really would be worth it. But I get that separated while living together is a hell some chumps must endure. (I endured 6 months of it in my first divorce as he would not move. the. fuck. out. Longest 6 months of my life. I still shudder.) So my advice to you, is make yourself scarce so you can avoid the “nice guy.” And the raging asshole behind the nice guy.

I hope you have a pit bull attorney. You mentioned “evidence.” Put that in a safe place, make records of all the financials, and do everything to protect yourself — including reaching out. Tell those closest to you the truth — you didn’t cheat! He discarded you. The last thing you need right now is to be isolated. That just gives him more power. Circle the wagons!

Remember, the pain is finite. Soon you’ll be rid of him. Hang in there and post here in the forums for support.

P.S. He’s NOT nice!

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Only fake friends will stab you in the back then offer to bandage you up to be seen as a good friend. Keep him at arms length and do not engage with the crazy asshole.

    • Polly you are too nice something your douchebag STBX has been taking full advantage of. Image is everything to the losers and they don’t DO kindness unless it benefits them directly. I’m so sorry you have been treated so badly. I kicked my cheating asshole out after I found out he is a serial cheater. I can’t imagine having to live under the same roof with a proven asshole who does nothing but hurt you. Get your divorce as quick as possible and take him to the cleaners. Document everything and make sure all documentation is in a safe place not in the house. If you can get proof of the affair by all means safeguard it and don’t be intimidated into trying to protect his reputation. Use your anger to get yourself going. Take care of yourself. Pamper yourself. God Bles. THoughts and prayers are with you.

      • I can’t stress enough the documentation of everything. Everytime he sneezes, shits, walks in or out the door, how much money he spends, etc….and keep the documentation off site. At a friend’s house who you can trust. You don’t mention children? But if you have kids, the documentation of every minute he spends with them is imperative. Mine were “discarded” until he realized he needed some custody….

      • Agreed I kicked mine to the side of a dirt road I wasn’t putting up with the narcissistic abuse any longer!😀

    • I agree that, if you can, it’s to your benefit to protect yourself by not engaging. On the other hand, if you can stomach it, I also think if you can let him think his “nice” act is working, he’ll not be as guarded. He is a narcissist after all. He thinks he’s so smart – let him think that. Then, you can use that to your advantage. If he has his guard down, he will get careless with information, documentation, etc. As for you, don’t let your guard down regarding anything – financial, general information, etc. Just remind yourself, like CL wrote, he’s not your friend. Whatever you might be tempted to think is too base for him to pull, think again. He will do it. He’s not the person you thought he was – or that anyone thinks he is. He’s a fraud.

      I’m so sorry for your pain and so angry at scumbags like this that pull this unbelievably cruel shit. Hey – if it makes you feel a little empowered, take little, undetectable steps to exact some consequences. Nothing that will cause you legal problems, e.g., clean the toilet bowl with his toothbrush and put it back.

    • It is so true. It’s a classic cheater move for a cheater to accuse a faithful spouse of cheating. Never trust a cheater. Once a cheater always a cheater. When they schmooze you……be careful. They are probably cheating again, and just acting nice.

  • Yeah, listen to CL. Does “nice” mean he will stop his smear campaign and come clean? Remember that as he is being “nice.” This dude has made some very calculated and cruel decisions. It takes some real nerve to blame you for an affair (not uncommon, sadly) while cheating on you. Just sick. Keep your head up…it can get better! In fact, it is much better with a cheater out of your life and no longer messing with your head…I know…been there and now am much better (SO less anxious and depressed!)

    • DM…..your words at the end……less anxious and depressed……has brought tears to my eyes. This is so true for me too and it actually saddens me that I was there once. It’s not a good place to be.

    • Agreed Divorce Minister I have been on two dates as of late, nice men and realizing not everyone cheats!😀

  • Polly, Hang in there. I’ve been going through some of this too. We live in the same house and he hasn’t spoken a word to me in almost 48 hours. I had the nerve to ask him for the money to pay his half of the bills. You’ll be so much better without him. Keep telling yourself that he’s the crazy one.

    • You are on to something! I have not spoken to mine in months, as I too am forced to live with him because he will not move the fuck out. Count your blessings that he isn’t talking to you, it really does take the mindfuck out of it! AND IF he does not hand over the money for his share of the bills, start shutting things down! Like the cable TV, the cell phone, etc etc. Don’t make it easy on him to stay is my point!

      • I am living with my STBX. Boundaries!

        Most of the time, I just don’t talk with him, or I will respond to his conversation with non-committal grunts (i.e. yep, there you go, who’d a thunk, wow, hunh, etc.). This generally works, as he’s not really interested in conversation, but he does like an echo chamber.

        I agree, though, that if your STBX is being nice, it’s because he’s got something not-nice on the back burner. I do not know what “evidence” you have, or why you choose to withhold it at this time. I think that if there is no legal reason to withhold it, you should feel free to set the record straight among your friends. Let the word of mouth help clear your reputation.

        If there is a strong legal reason–or if there’s a strategic dimension in that withholding it allows you to negotiate a better settlement–then that’s another thing. Always follow the advice of your lawyer.

    • I lived with mine for 13 months. Kids too. All this while he had a place to go for free and didn’t just because it “fucked with my head”. We. Did. Not. Talk. It was surreal. I broke my silence approximately 3-4 times to let him know that his whore just wanted his money and wouldn’t love our kids and wasn’t he just so fucking smart? Other than those few times, crickets. It was a long year. I texted when I needed something. Refused to cook, clean, or do his laundry. It was a fucking standoff some weeks. Most fun was when I received papers from his lawyers stating that he “did the dishes everyday”. So. I. Quit. Doing. Dishes. He didn’t do dishes everyday….Anyway, it’s a completely fucked up way to live and I wish you the best of luck with it. Big Hugs

    • Agreed Bepositve I’m on my own the first time in my adult life and really learning to heal and be fully independent! I was a stay at home mom for years until I found out! It’s anazing how strong you are when you have to be!👍

  • Every time I would question my XH About my concerns he was cheating before D’day he would magically turn into the man I longed for him to be. This would only add to the overwhelming sense of guilt and shame I felt for questioning him. Each time I would think, maybe this time will be the turning point. But in less than a week his nice guy mask would be gone and I would cycle into the depths of disappointment and resentment. This was crazy making.

    Polly trust he sucks, he wants you to second guess yourself. Don’t! Have faith in you. Line up your ducks and get out.

    • I am so sorry you are in this situation. Anyone who is stuck living with the cheater especially if you still love them. My cheater got caught and I told him to leave and he left. It completely broke my heart but I am so glad he did. I think it will make it easier to move on (some day).

      • Brokenhearted – I promise you it gets easier. THen you start to wonder why the hell you didn’t kick the deadbeat out sooner. I used to be on an anti anxiety med because of my asshole. Not anymore.. he was the only source of my anxiety once I got rid of him. Anxiety gone. Still going through divorce process and can’t wait to be legally finished with his nonsense.

        • During the discovery process I got up one night about 2am to get a drink of water. He had fallen asleep on the couch as usual at 7 pm or so. Lights all back on TV on and him up texting on his cell phone screaming at me what the fuck are you doing up?!?!?!? Uh, woke up… Thirsty… Need water…. I say. What the hell are you doing on the phone at 2 am calmly? ha little did I know. Go back to bed he screams at me you are not supposed to be up!!!! Again who are you texting at this hour? His customers. Really. He was a bad liar from day one. Confronted he wiil change the subject or looks guilty and at his feet or runs away like a frightened worm. They are all the same I am a honest, loyal, caring and trustworthy person who faces the storms and problems of life head up and straight in the wind head on. Him, big baby hides behind lies and treachery. I called him a fucking coward to his face!! He will not stand and face me. No wonder my youngest son told him to go fuck himself when heap big daddy tried to give the kid the be honorable and keep your promises speech. Judge will make him honor a lot of shit! Fuckers, all of them.

          • KAR – Haha. I used to get the “it’s just a customer ” line during discovery and even thru “reconcilliation” . Checked the phone bill when I started to suspect and that was the excuse during the first affair ( that I know of ) and the 2nd (that I know of) Sure..it’s perfectly in the norm to text and call customers at 1:00, 2:00, 3:00 in the morning.

            • Haha! Previous to the ap he left the phone just anywhere. Ap time carried it with him EVERYWHERE!! bathroom, taking out the garbage, in his pocket while sleeping. No red flags there. No…. Not one. Hope his dick falls off……doesn’t work anyway. Hope Mrs enjoys the grouchy old fuck the rest of her days!!!!

              • Mine always said “clients”…. makes him sound more important. Love everything you said kar marie…. I just said the EXACT same thing about mine the other day…. hope the destruction he has inflicted on his women (myself and previous) and children comes back on him and hope to fuck his damn dick quits working. Fuckers, all of them is right!!

              • karmarie – yep – same thing with the new phone I bought him when he finally decided to get into the new century. He used it reluctantly and rarely prior to AP. Same thing as you, suddenly it wouldn’t leave his hands. And, I had just installed the texting app on his phone. My, what a world that must have opened for him. And dang those east coast customers (which, was the case in both our careers but markets close at 2pm on the west coast) No customers ever had to be contacted at 5pm unless they were on our time zone but most of his customers were east coast. Then, suddenly, a huge interest in the Chinese and Japanese (night) markets which is the reason he was texting at midnight, 2am, 4am, etc. His markets NEVER included the intern’l markets. It was just sick. I’d ask him to show me the phone and he’d show me a Bloomberg screen that markets were, indeed, trading. I was a trader too – did he think I was stupid? But, yes I was. Took me forever to figure out he was texting her. But, what the hell was she doing up at those hours too? She has a regular desk job supporting local work. And, somebody please tell me, how in the hell do they have SO much to talk about?? I mean, when we were dating long distance at 22 yrs old, we ran up some big bills talking about nothing.
                Is that what he’s doing at 60 yrs old? Talking about nothing with his whore? Just don’t get it. No wonder he always looked so tired.

              • It’s the excitement they crave. I can’t imagine anyone texting me every minute. What happens when the infatuation and deception are over? I am guessing they are making all kinds if plans for the future. As soon as the whore figures out the only thing he has planned in 41 years is his next fuck the fighting and neediness will surface. I have never seen anyone who can lie with such ease. X started working on my son who is now saying it’s over now and thinks we should be able to be cordial to one another. The magic world of whoredom must be shriveling like his dick. To me it’s comparable to a vacation. You want to live there because there are no responsibilities and it’s amazing to be free. Then you think about what you have at home and can’t wait to be home. This is the first time X got to live with the consequences. X doesn’t get the benefit of having a family filled with laughter. X will never sit together as a family again. Or hear me laugh or sing. We were a close family. Now I get to reap the benefits of planning and enjoying my efforts as they are appreciated. This is what they get, to live alone with their darkness. I will hold my boundaries and never allow one inch of caring or kindness to the person who willfully disregarded everything he possessed that was good for a cheap slut.

              • I’m with you, Donna, I got better things to do with my time than text some guy all day. There’s nobody that interesting. Especially these loser cheaters.

          • I got up one night to pee and he was in the shower at 3am. I asked why he was taking a shower at 3am and he said “I always take a shower before I go to work”. Meaning, “I always take a shower so I can have a clean fuck in the middle of the night”. YUCK! That was the first time it had happened, although I suspect I may have missed a couple as some nights I would stay in the guest room. They do crazy shit.

              • When we would find out about an acquaintance cheating on a spouse, my serial cheating stbxh would say ” I don’t get it he/she is not attractive how could he/she cheat?” The cheaters all see themselves as beautiful, sparkly people .. not middle aged balding men, saggy boobed mid life crisis fuck ups. They are delusional.

            • My ex would take a shower before he went running. He used shower leave , at 8:30 and go to her house for some hot sex. Of course he had to wait till her kids are of to school and hubby of to work!!

            • Dana – LOVE that!!!!. Yep – I too got to experience the phone fucks. Treated it like his penis. The difference is mine didn’t have clients – he actually admitted that he was ‘talking to a friend, who happened to be a girl.’ Dumbass. BUT – he was talking to her about ‘his woes….how I cheated on him 15 years ago….’ Ya right dumbass. Funny – when my son found your sexting line, from what I understand, the conversations he read were NOT about my ficticious affair. Huh. So – you are calling our kid a liar?

            • Jake @ State Farm! When that commercial first came out, my stbx, sitting at the desk on the computer behind me, said “She sounds just like you.” Gaslighting son of a bitch, I really wanted to kick him as hard as I could. In the head. He didn’t know that I had seen the profiles on swinger sites, nude selfies, you know the story. He had painted me as an insecure and jealous wife to many, hell – to me -had me convinced I was mental, so humiliating. Every time I see that commercial I am reminded that it was, and is, all in a day’s work to emotionally devastate another human being because he felt like it. No remorse, he doesn’t have the gene.

              Polly: CL’s “He wants to lure you into complacency, so your guard is down,” rings true. Please don’t get sucked in. I did, over and over, and every time I wanted to kick myself. I was so angry that I’d allowed him to manipulate me again. Of course, I didn’t know then what I know now. He’s a sociopath. You can’t fix that.

    • I know exactly mine too 53 years of age and hanging off the cell phone and Instagram like a teenager! He had changed his passcode three times in 5 weeks big Red flag! My teenager figured it out!

    • I know exactly mine too 53 years of age and running around acting like a teenager in heat so pathetic! The bald spot on top of his head is a dead giveaway!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

  • I had to live one and a half years with my ex while we fought for a fair price on our house! 5 apprassials, slept on the couch, interior doors locked, furniture stolen, he cut the hot water, phone, threw grass clippings on my car, threw garbage in my garage stall, ripped my clothing, labeled all the food in the house his, posted bills everyday on cabinets that I owed him thousands in utility bills for living there, stalked me with his mistress at my place of employment… Yah de dah I could go on after the discard!!! Husband and mistress flaunted relationship (hot air ballooning, hotels, she sent letters to him from her an her kids..bet sick people…in the end I forced him to buy me out… He would of loved me to leave move the GF in and keep the divorce going until I ran out of money… Almost had to go to trial..spent $20,000 to get rid of that POS!

  • Hi Polly:)

    So sorry you have to go trough this.
    The discarding is so painfull.
    I had to live with my ex while in the process of divorcing for a year. He accused me of cheating as well, infront of my daughters!! But they know the truth!
    A week or two after I filled, he was very nice trying to manipulate me in cooperating with him. I ignored all of it, and just listend to my attourney.
    His advice was “Do not engage.”
    After my ex saw that I would not be a nice little chump the anger and rage went on full force!!
    Everytime he would pick fights while I was getting dinner ready while the kids where in the house, I would walk away!! You can’t argue with crazy or try talking sense into them!! Because if they had any sense, character or conscience they would not do this!!

  • Polly, I have been trying to divorce my stbx for 6 months via mediation. We have not lived together for one year. He told me he misses me recently and does not want the divorce, maybe we could get back together. Why would I want that? He cheated, did not repent and I’ve had very limited contact with him. I feel nothing for him, just want to be divorced. You will get there. Don’t fall for the Mister Nice Guy act. CL is right, he wants something. A month may seem like forever but you can do it. Don’t slip up, that’s what they want, to catch you off guard.

    • Exactly never slip up and they want you to bite! Mine is insane and flaunted all his tramps right in front of me and the kids!

  • The reason he is doing this is because he has always done this. This is how he conducts his life. Sweet talk, con and then anger. He has probably always gotten his way. What you need to do is tell him that he can wrap it in a beautiful package with a gorgeous bow but inside his shit still stinks.

  • Dear Polly, what CL describes is exactly what happened to me. He took the recycling bin to the recycling point (first time in 15 years without me asking for it). He put plates and glasses on the table. He brought ice cubes. He put dishes in the dishwasher after the meal. Whenever I sighed, he asked me if everything was okay. I found this very scary. For a minute, I thought he was beating himself into being the nice guy that I deserve, but only a minute. And the next day, right before leaving for work so I’d have plenty of time to ruminate in isolation, he announced that he would take two weeks of vacation to drive a foreigner (some potential mistress I never heard about) around the area, and it would be great if I could help pick her up and take some days off myself, to enjoy this wonderful trio. I still feel the pain in my skin when I recall the event.
    Don’t believe the “Nice”, it’s likely to be only LUBRICANT.

  • I have the same real friends I had most of my life. His shitness managed to back off or scare most of them off two of them are guys. These two are like brothers to me more than my own brothers ever were. I’ve known most of my friends over 40 years. My oldest friend has been married six times! She cheated on every single one I found out recently! She said to me I must have done something to drive him away. Ha! Bitch! Kicked her ass to the curb as a friend just like I’m doing to my ex. I’m being as nice or nicer to him as instructed by my lawyer. Kill him with kindness ( I do but only to a point) I also treat him with the abruptness and attitude he gives me he hasn’t noticed it yet. Boy these cheaters kill me. Lawyer says continue the facade till court time and blind side him. Guy is great!! I will get what I want!!!

    • Six times?! There’s never a shortage of willing victims, is there? It drives me nuts that I’ll likely go years before even going on another date, let alone ever having another actual relationship, whereas my ex has never had any problem at all lining someone up. I was all too eager to get caught in her web.I know, I know. It’s all about the sparkles.

      I used to work for a software company that designed a marriage license form for Louisiana. We got a frantic call at lunch one day because the software only allowed single digits in the ‘number of marriages’ box. The person in question was going into marriage number 11… the solution was to put in 1 and then add the other 1 in the typewriter.

      • Yep six times!! I’ve been married twice five years and 25 years. I will remain single that’s for damn sure but nice decent established and stable gentlemen companions I would welcome maybe one day. For now last thing on my agenda is another husband or live in. Right now I’m not even interested in dating perhaps that will change. Ex is stuck in his new relationship with someone he is not happy with as for me I’m looking forward to freedom!!!!!

      • Sorry, just had to say “Bwahahahaha”. I know it is horrible, but 11 marriages????? He’s putting Henry 8 to shame! Thanks for sharing that. Made my day!

  • Nice is only code for get ready baby I’m bending you over for more and also I’m twisting the knife I stuck in your back more.

  • Polly – You are living my life!!! My stbx asshole was ‘nice’ because he didn’t think he did anything wrong. And yes – he also accused ME of an affair! My stbx douchbag was ‘nice’ because he wanted to get laid. My stbx fuckface was ‘nice’ because he wanted to make a good impression on the kids.
    He’s a POS – hang in there. I am sorry for what you are dealing with!

  • Thanks for the replies. It is when he is nice and smiley and even made me a cup of tea this morning. I thought maybe I have been paranoid and got this all wrong. I then just read over my journals and the shit that I have put up with over this year. It started with ‘I need some space to find myself, can you leave me alone for a while’ I left for three weeks feeling really bad and came back and started to find a series of concert tickets, hotel bills, expensive restaurant bills, foundation in his bag… he said oh my colleague must have slipped it in there!!! gullible mcfly I am not. The good guy bad guy routine messes with your head though and makes you feel insane at times. I am worried about what is coming around the corner, the nice guy routine must mean something awful in the finances of the divorce is going to hit me next. LIFE I want it back.

    • Polly, the “I need space” is a classic cheater move as you can see on CL. Mine played that card as well on her way to cheating. Glad you are reading your journals and remembering what has transpired with eyes wide open!

    • Hopefully you have a pitbull of an attorney (though disclaimer: the actual pitbulls are really nice, friendly dogs). At an rate, if you suspect he’s been spending money on the affair, explore that! I am not sure what country you are in, but in many of the U.S. states, that money is recoverable. You have to go the forensic accountant route for all of it, but I think that if I go that route with my cheater, all I’d need would be bank statements showing money transfers to his girlfriend’s account.

      Also, check in with a divorce financial planner on how to set yourself up post-divorce. If you don’t have credit in your name, now is a good time to take out 1 credit card, make a small charge, and then pay it in full. Don’t run up charges (this is hard for most people). The idea is not just to show that you make timely payments, but also that you use a very small percentage of the credit available to you.

      Good luck.

      • I’m preparing to leave and although I agree with getting everything you can in a divorce,and certainly if you’ve invested so much, I’ve decided I don’t want anything. When dealing with a narc, one must brace themselves for the inevitable rage that results from you taking what is “theirs”. That includes you and the kids, since they see us as belonging to him. With that fight and struggle a definite thing, I’ve decided I don’t want to give him any pretexts for fighting with me or trying to impede my departure. I’m simply tired of the bullshit and honestly, material possessions are not worth my peace of mind. I will be leaving because I tried the kicking him out thing a couple of years ago when I found out about the most painful affair he’s had (6 so far, just discovered the latest one two weeks ago) and he just weasels his way back in because he feels entitled and totally within his rights to come and go as he pleases and be in here.

        Fuck all that, standing your ground and getting what you can can certainly be the right thing for a lot of chumps, but I’m just going to walk away. Not worth it for me. Now, this is the lesson that I wish so many of my sisters learn early on – don’t ever give up your power by staying home and relying on a man to take care of you financially. There is no greater devastation than having your world crumbling around you and being stuck because of money. If you want to stay home with your kids in their early years, make sure you keep a career alive somehow and have a nice nest egg before you stay home so that in the event you are hit in the face with a ton of pussy bricks, you’re decision to leave won’t be hampered by finances.

        Anxiously waiting to start my new, narc-free life.

        Be strong, Polly!

        • I agree..the lawyers and judges make a lot of money because of the narcs personality…too much fighting may cause you more than he’s worth! Be careful…and get out as quick as you can…some of these bastards have murdered there wives so they could get out of paying…

          • So true, Gail. They really are capable of the craziest shit when they think you’re taking what is rightfully theirs. I don’t think mine would go that far because he is one of those “does almost everything else right” except what counts – true love, loyalty and honesty. So over this crap!

    • Hang in there Polly. I do the same.. this weekend, My old H showed up, we were a family and I got sad.. then sitting by the pool he sends me a passive aggressive jab about the D and the facade breaks.

      Now the D is all my fault, all my doing.. because I got really tired of his “I am not sure I Love you anymore”, “I won’t want to come home to you”.. “I want a different future”.. “divorce isn’t so bad”.. not to mention never ever admitting to dalliances with the whore.

      He’d have strung me in limbo into perpetuity… but the D is MY fault. Whatever dude.

      • Oh my Narc ex husband still says divorce was %100 all my fault. And he says it was 12 yrs of shit and he was an awesome husband and I was a shit, horrible wife.

    • Polly,
      In the 20 years I was married he never ever when I was sick, had the flu Gir me meds or took care of me, no empathy at all!!!
      While I was doing the pick me dance and he was busy doing his fake reconciliation I got the flu, and he made me some tea!!!! What a manipulating jerk!!

      • wow – i doubt if any of his OW will wipe his ass and take care of him when he gets old. Jokes on him

  • The good guy/bad guy thing is really f****d up. One minute mine was planning on walking out and writing a “secret” email to a divorce attorney, the next trying to rub my arm when I discovered it. I told him not to touch me.

    I was accused of having an affair years ago with an ice skating teacher that I did take private lessons from but in a PUBLIC rink. The teacher was also gay. They will dredge up anything to justify what they’re doing.

    • I was accused of an affair 15 years ago with a guy who has herpes. I don’t have herpes. And absolutely – my stbx throws it in my face everytime he gets mad at me! I should have left him 15 years ago…..I always thought i would some how be proven “Not-guilty,” but that hasn’t happened. And since that accusation, my stbx has not said ‘I love you’ because HE does not want to get hurt AGAIN. Whatever dumbass…

      • Poor sausage….

        Strange thing is, he never said one word about the teacher or skating lessons until I confronted him about his “friend” at work. All of a sudden, after fifteen years he brings it up. Funny how that works.

        • If I had a nickel for every time that lying, cheating asshat accused me of cheating over the years, I’d have a lot of nickels! For the longest time I thought he was insecure but now I realize he was projecting his crappy morals on everyone, including me.

          I now realize without a shadow of a doubt that he was probably cheating for the entirety of our marriage. He was very careful not to get caught when the kids were young because I got an earful many a times about all the ways he would duck child support if it ever came to that.

          When he decided to follow his dick to greener pastures they were adults so he had a classic exit affair without actually exiting. So yeah, I was married to a cowardly, lying, cheating asshat. The trifecta!

          • This!
            You”re spot on when you say they begin to project their shitty morals on us…after we’ve spent years spackling/projecting our good morals on them.

            Once a sneaky lying phony POS, always a sneaky lying phony POS.

          • Well now this is interesting. I am constructing a much clearer picture of the game being played around me. So many red flags such as the comment I got once about him ‘retiring’ so he wouldn’t have to pay child support, just to spite me. knowledge is power, so thank you all for sharing.

      • LadyStrange–I am amazed every time I hear your story. Yet more evidence that Cheater-reality is an alternate universe, impermeable to facts or evidence.

        • Indeed Tempest. Funny you say that. Last time I fought with dipshit he exclaimed “I have never cheated on you!” OMG – asswipe! I said “What fucking planet do you live on? What are you doing every fucking night in front of me with your fucking phone? What a dumbass. Planet dumbass.

          • Did anyone ever get the comment ( when confronting them about their girlfriend(s) on the side after catching them… “‘ define girlfriend'”

            • Mine was unclear about the definition of an affair. He meets a student for coffee & drinks over several weeks, they have mutual oral sex, she demands he leave his wife (me) for her, but “!! that was not an affair!!”

            • KMA,
              Sorta. When I first caught him and was still living with him (and giving him kibbles by fighting with him) I would constantly call her his girlfriend. This infuriated him because, “SHE IS NOT MY GIRLFRIEND!”. In the real world, taking someone out on dates, paying for them, buying them gifts, sleeping with them, etc. makes them a girlfriend. His bullshit line of “define girlfriend” is just to mess with your head. You don’t need confirmation from him that he DOES have a girlfriend. He does and he’s an asshole.

              So many of them use the same lines. Losers.

              • Yep and for all the years he messed with my head I am going to convert to $$ in my bank account through divorce settlement.

            • I got “it was just fantasy!! You will NEVER understand!!” yeah…. whatever asshole…. the phones and phone plan he was paying for to make all the communication possible wasn’t fantasy….. such a dick.

            • Stupid X said ‘We got a little too close’

              (they had all types of sex, took showers together, held hands in public, BLAH BLAH BLAH…)
              So very delusional!

  • Yes, CL is right. At 18 months post DDay I’ve observed that my ex is only nice when he’s warming up to fucking me over or attempting to do so. There’s always a motive.

    He offers to bring our child all the way home instead of meeting at our meeting place, I accept (well that’s a nice offer, I think to myself) aaaaaaand boom! the next weekend he asks me to come get her 2 hours away at his grandparents house by stating that “he did it for me last weekend” and that I’m “more than happy to accept him doing me favors but won’t help him when he NEEDS it”.

    I’ve got ten million examples but that one suffices, you get the picture. I’m sure you’ve seen him do this at some point during your marriage but just didn’t realize it, getting out of the fog and looking back with a clear mind will enlighten you. My ex rarely (dare I say never?) voluntarily did anything for anyone without thinking about how he could leverage it to benefit himself later.

    • The Better Jamie, that is my creepy ex’s MO to a tee. Al ways most concerned with himself. Ugh.

      • They’ve always got an angle, Not Juliet, don’t they?

        I didn’t know people so calculated existed outside of murders, theives and criminals of the like until I met my ex and his morbid family.

        I’m still currently running the other direction from their lunacy. Lol. I can never get far enough away.

  • Oh Polly.My stbxh would be nice when he needed something then when I stood up for myself his true colours came out.To your face for now he is being nice but if you could really see what he ‘s up to behind your back lying that you were cheating and he’s probably still flirting and seeing other women.If he was nice he would tell the truth about what happened and give you everything you want.Oh but cheaters are liars,manipulators and thieves.Don’t let him steal more years of your life hoping that he will suddenly be authentic.Because it doesn’t sound like he is taking responsiblity for all he has done.He is biding his time to dupe you.You were whole when he met you and you will be whole again when he leaves.

    • Yes, nothing earth shattering to add. But, I just do not see these folks being nice unless it is to get something. They are not nice people.

  • Be consistent in your behavior regardless of how inconsistent he is in his. Once you show yourself as against me. You’re against me.

  • Polly
    He is using the ” Weather man ” trick. He is being a barometer. He is measuring your response to ” nice” More than likely he is pooring on the nice because he has dicovered something he needs or needs to hide in the settlement. He is assessing your response to the ‘ nice ‘ days so he can figure out a way to manipulate u. Play close attention when he is being ” nice” its always to throw u off something. Guaranteed.
    If you can develop some academy worthy acting skills… Go with ” nice forcast” with the understanding that its all a facade and play along, keeping yr cards close to yr chest and agreeing to nada. Move forward with yr plans… Because…. the storm is gonna come anyway. He will rage. He will. He is giving u some good clues… So heed the warning…
    I went thru these cycles many times before caught onto the Weatherman’s trick. The barometer , a cheaters tool.
    Press on. Be a good girl scout… Be prepared. You can brave any change in the weather.

    • YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!! My STBX did this for YEARS! Thank you for the ‘Weatherman/Barometer’ analogy. It is really good for visualizing the behaviour. And yes, the storm is coming, regardless. Put on your armour, pull out your weapons and dis-imbowel the C*%ksucker in court. Then pour your self a drink and toast YOUR future with your TRUE friends.

  • I just read that when a narcissist plays nice its just smoke and mirrors.Its usually to distract you for something they’re planning.If they’re mean to you all the time its easier to get over them but when their nice it leaves you confused.It leaves you second guessing yourself.See he is in control.He knows what he can get away with.Hey I made her a cup of tea and she drank it.She won’t see what’s coming next. She was gone I was using our money to fund my affair.He thinks he’s clever.Fool.He’s losing the best thing that ever happened to him.What you don’t appreciate another man will.

  • Oh, Polly, mine won’t leave either! (He thinks he’ll lose any claim to money from the house.) My D-day was only about a month ago but I made my decision and now he keep trying to get me to do divorce without an attorney and other such nonsense. He has moved money and taken my property to his brother’s house. After the kids go to bed I go to the master suite and close the door to block him out. BTW He says he can’t understand why I close the door. Seriously! He doesn’t get it.

    • AOK- CALL a lawyer today. He’s stalling to clean you out and mediation doesn’t work with these con- artists. Get a good lawyer who will make sure every asset is uncovered during the legal discovery process. DON’T let him get away with hiding money. Take pictures of everything and every room in your house. Make a list of everything he has taken. A lawyer can get records of any hidden bank accounts and income through legal means. Make him accountable for every dollar. You owe it to yourself and your kids. I kicked my serial cheater out in January 2015 . I’m in the process of getting exclusive rights to the marital home because the asshole I married took some things from the house.. so my lawyer says I have grounds to file for primary and exclusive rights to the “marital home”

      Married for 24 years despite cheating never thought the douche bag would try to hide assets or income… guess what ? When you think they cannot sink any lower they most definitely can and will. Protect yourself . Get a lawyer find out where every dollar is hidden.

      • I agree with KMA. My dumbshit decided to cash in his Roth 9 days after getting papers from my lawyer. He must have thought I forgot about it. Then I brought it up in a fight one night and here came the deer in the headlights! Surprise asshole – I know you are trying to screw me…..hahahaha. The next time it was brought up (with now having time to think up an excuse for doing it), he claimed his lawyer told him to cash it in. Bullshit asswipe. It was funny because he didn’t hire a lawyer at that time…..In April when my lawyer filed, jackass decided to get a lawyer for sure. He hired a different one than the one who supposedly told him to cash in his Roth. Huh. I’m quite certain that he KNEW I would show his attorney the texts he sent me stating she told him to cash it and therefore he would be outed as a liar to her. That’s why he had to hire a different one. Dick.

        • They just love, love, love their retirement accounts. Mine claimed, “I don’t have anywhere near that much in Retirement account #2!!” as I was staring at the documentation from his employer. It pays to document, document, document.

          • Oh yes! I’ve posted before how mine tried to claim he had 8,000.00 in his retirement account when he actually had 250,000.00!

            I was crushed and so hurt that he rushed to file and was in a big hurry to divorce me but this post today has made me realize he was probably in such a hurry because he was hoping he’d get away with that trick. Bam! Just like that. I was taking it all personally but it was all about the money. He also wanted to do mediation.

            It was a little bit of sweet karma, because he actually ended up delaying things because I asked for 25.00 more a week alimony and he said no. I probably would have signed the agreement then and there if he’d said yes. And in the meantime the 250,000.00 was uncovered.

            • Lina–Mine tried to rush settlement, too, even claiming that we would have to file joint taxes for 2015 if we didn’t settle by December 2014 (and even though the State waiting period was after December). Liar, liar, pants on fire. He just didn’t want me to collect more documentation or have time to see a lawyer. But I did : ).

              • 🙂

                The lowest part of his act was to threaten to put my elderly Dad and I out on the street if I didn’t agree to his terms. Forget me, but an elderly WW II vet, who fought for him to live the good life he does now. A frailty, elderly man who used to buy him a steak dinner once a month from his SS. To threaten to put my Dad out of what was his home originally. It actually turns my stomach. And the law that would have let him do so.

                Sorry, I’m repeating myself but I just can’t wrap my head around it.

              • I believe you….when my mother had a car accident from a stroke she landed in the hospital! It was just after POS was served! He put locks on all the bedroom doors …the answering machine was in one room. He heard messages from troopers and the hospitals ER trying to contact me and did not care! I went to work 6 hours later and the hospital contacted my job telling me she was transported for a possible brain tumor!!!! He works for Verizon and interfered with a life threatening situation! The bastard even showed up at the hospital parking lot telling my son he would visit my mom if I weren’t divorcing him!!!!!

              • I got the dumbass threats too. Whatever. $250,000? Nice Job!!! My assface says “What more do you want? You are getting half MY pension, half My 401K – why don’t you take my inheritance too?” Well ok dickwad….if you are offering. Yes I will take that ON TOP of MY half of the pension and MY half of the 401K 🙂 🙂 Oh – and I will take half that Roth you cashed in and had to pay $2500 in taxes on. His roth was only $11,000 but I will end up with $5500. He, on the other hand, ended up with less than $3000 because of the taxes. Thumbs up there prick….. You so smart.

            • This happened to ME too! Found 100K I didn’t know existed, AND he claimed he’d dumped an extra 50K into the house we bought. But MAGICALLY the equity was only 30K. He was using this lie to claim I had been ‘overpaid’ in the payout from the house sale. My lawyer did a little Excel sheet. Surprise mother fucker! We cannot trace the money, and (in Canada at least) that doesn’t matter. He cannot produce any legitimate paperwork about WHERE the money actually WENT, so as far as the court is concerned, he spent it on hookers and blow, hair plugs, butt plugs, whatever. It is NOT IN THE HOUSE EQUITY. Guess being shady and hiding money elsewhere SUCKS when you are trying to ‘prove’ you have ‘so much equity’.

              • Happy to give u my Idiots address if yr garbage truck has faulty brakes. I had been praying for a bus to fall out of the sky… But a wayward garbage truck works for me !

          • State workers in Ca purchase years towards retirement with their savings accounts. If you don’t make this known during divorce in court you won’t have a right to claim years purchased. Divorcing Cheaters betray,betray, betray.

          • Yes, they do love their retirement accounts. My STBX was spun up by his girlfriend to the point where he was very worried about getting the Qualifying Domestic Relations Order done correctly. I think his words were, “does your lawyer know about something called Qudro/Quadro?” 😀

            Anyway, I presented my settlement proposal to him, based on the documents we both provided to the attorney, in which we carve up only his 401(k), leaving his pension and a small IRA intact. This means only one QDRO, not several. He’s nearly shit his pants. It’s the first time he’s seen just how much he’s going to lose, BUT reason would dictate that since he’s out-earned me the entire 18 years of our marriage (17 as of filing), and worked longer, his retirement is by far the greater. If we pile up the retirement into one big pile, and divide it by half, we see that I would have to take from his retirement to get to the 50% mark. We’re taking that chunk from his 401(k) to avoid dividing up his two smaller accounts. I said I’d pay the cost to draw up the QDRO.

            Surprise, but the first thing he did was request–through the court–the financial declaration. 🙂 No problem here, but if he starts to stall, then I’m not going to volunteer to pay his share of the legal costs. We can split those, which is the custom in this particular state.

            I’m pretty sure that Schmoopie filed those court documents, by the way. STBX’s signature is big and rounded, but the signature on the documents was small and cramped. STBX can’t write that small!

            • Saddam also loved MY retirement account, his lawyer started threatening me with dividing it until I informed her that due to my helping ex his was nearly equal to my own and if she wanted to go that route I’d withdraw my offer to give him a percentage of “our” investment acct since it was actually MY secondary retirement fund. And yes it happens I have proof that he agreed to that and that every dime that went into it came from me. Then I told her if she’s going for this I have a real problem with the money he’s already withdrawn from his 401K. She shut up. He shit up.

              • Gail, that is horrible! I hope that your Mom is okay now. X

                LadyStrange, I was able to buy him out of the house with that money I received enabling me (hopefully) to keep my Dad here for the rest of his life. He put so much work into the house before he got sick. Beautiful brand new kitchens, etc. Ex waltzed in and paid a pittance every month despite making good money and acted like it was a dump at the end. I feel guilty that I brought this on my Dad by marrying ex.

      • Thanks KMA, I did get a lawyer. (The STBX was served on Thursday.) My lawyer was none to pleased to hear my property is no longer in my home with me where it belongs. STBX says his lawyer told him to do it. He also says his lawyer told him to move 75% of our savings to an account in only his name. I got him to move back my portion and I put it in another bank. If his lawyer really did tell him to do these things the state bar will be hearing about it by way of formal complain when this is over. I pulled credit reports and all the financials I could find before I confronted. From what I could find it looks like he was planning his new life with schmoopie but I found out and filed before he could get his act together. I know about 2 retirement accounts but I’m not sure how to find out about others. Any advice for how to look?

        • Ask your lawyer but I’m pretty sure you can have anything subpoened . His past and present employers and banks. Tell your lawyer you want a thorough search. That’s what mine is doing.

        • Get your lawyer to subpoena the bastard; if your STBX is not forthcoming you will never get a fair settlement. I would also see if you could somehow get info from personnel at his work. Your lawyer needs to help with this. Any job he has worked at during your marriage and that had benefits (401k, 257, pension, perks) he is legally obligated to disclose. Narcs won’t. There is a yearly statement. Request and Get copies of those. Old pay stubs, and copies of current ones are helpful too. The Disordered will dodge truth so be persistent. Also get educated, a lot of good info is on line, be sure to take your time and know the information on how accounts are split. A QDRO may be required and most lawyers do not know how to do one properly. You may need to file a joinder. Look at legal paperwork on line. My county had all the forms on line…. A certified divorce financial analyst is a great resource (and IMHO should be provided by every family court to all couples divorcing), request a meeting with one (split costs pro rata w/STBX) before agreeing to a settlement. The CDFA will look at what the settlement will really do.

  • My ex tried the ‘being nice’ thing here and there and as soon as he saw I wasn’t going to buy whatever he was selling immediately he went back to being an asshole. Ignore your asshole, focus on the upcoming court case and don’t let him lure you into any more crazy,

    • This was my exact experience too. He became SO NICE and would switch it on and off. He even joined Pinterest and started following my pins to “understand me better” and to “share something with me.” Really????? I guess 20 years of marriage wasn’t enough. It was so over the top, even for him, and the lying was so obvious to even me at that point…which is saying something. It was so clear to me that he was working me over to the best of his ability emotionally. But – I had already seen through him, and I too, was no longer buying what he was selling. When he really understood that I had changed, that he was no longer in control – he started treating me like a stranger (of course after many escalated attempts to control me through rage and manipulation). Which, in a way is worse than the raging asshole behavior. Because it is so impersonal and shockingly so. But – he was just done trying to manipulate me, so no need for the act any longer. All I can say was, I’m so glad I left him now. I’m so glad I resisted buying into his shit, which I really wanted to be ABLE to believe, but I just couldn’t at the end of the day.

  • I’m in the process of divorcing, and STBXW also won’t leave the house — it’s been more than two years since DDay. I never imagined she could be this cruel. Nice? Yeah, just like CL says, she cycles through nice, self-pity and anger. We just started mediation and now she’s very nice, perhaps because the mediator seems very much biased on her side and she sees herself finally winning. These people don’t care about us, is the big thing to remember — they care about getting what they want. Period.

    • ANR – I’d switch over to an attorney especially if you think the mediator is biased. Get yourself a good one its money well spent in the long run. Can’t say document everything enough that way when she breaks out the charm and waterworks you can submit proof she’s a cheating nut.

  • Narcissist and Nice don’t belong in the same sentence. Nice is part of the façade as normal. A wolf in sheep’s clothing is still a wolf. Mine wouldn’t leave the house after I sued for divorce for adultery and then he lied to the court and said he was still in the house and we had sex so that “condones” the adultery. Hard to prove you didn’t have sex. I ended up having to move out to an apartment and filed for adultery for OW #6. I didn’t let him know where to find me. He countered by filing against me for abandonment. They will do whatever it takes to look good while making you look bad. And let’s not overvalue “Nice.” Nice means nothing to me. “Kind” means something. Nice is just foreplay for destroying you.

    • They are awful excuses for people. Their cruelty and selfishness knows no bounds. Let’s all remember that the famous sociopath and serial killer, Ted Bundy, WORKED ON A SUICIDE HOTLINE, then would leave, and kill young women in heinous ways. I realize it’s an extreme example…but this is how these people operate.

      I could say, gee, but my husband started taking a renewed interest in me after D-Day, and almost get distracted by that…only to find out that he was SIMULTANEOUSLY telling his family huge lies about how the impending divorce was all my fault – working on his narrative even then.

      It’s hard not to actively hate him for wasting 20 yrs. of my life, and leaving me now with a terminal illness in a position where no one else will realistically want to have a relationship with me. He is suuuuuuuuuuch a piece of shit.

      • TBC Girl- I’m sorry about your illness. I’ll keep you in my prayers. Don’t discount any future relationships. You have put up with an asshole for so long – you deserve happiness. There are no shortages of pricks in this world but there are some good men out there who would be blessed to get to know you. Put yourself out there do things you enjoy don’t give that piece of shit you married anymore of your time or thoughts. Let your lawyer handle the fool.

  • I now have PTSD,,,,No contact with my 2 adult boys due to his lying…I’ve sinced moved to a small older home in a nice neighborhood and I am trying to rebuild my life! I am really just glad to be alive today because I felt as though my ex would have seriously killed me so thathe wouldn’t have to divide his assets!

    • Gail – I am so sorry. I’m fortunate that my 3 kids are young adults and could see for themselves how my STBX betrayed lied and cheated his way out of the family. THe great thing about them being adults is they can handle the truth. I told them exactly what my STBX has been up too… not because I was trying to turn them against him but because I wanted them to know the difference between right and wrong. I took my marriage vows seriously, put up with years of verbal and emotional abuse even cheating aside. ( much of which my kids witnessed) But the serial cheating was the last straw reconcilliation efforts OVER after being caught again. Your kids need to know that what their father did to their mother is wrong and grounds for divorce on many levels. Tell them the truth don’t hide things from them to protect them. If you have proof of your husband cheating and mistreating you show them. They are adults. If you have daughters they need to know they should not tolerate this abuse from a man. If you have sons they need to know that they cannot treat the women in their lives this way. It’s teaching them morality and human decency- that is more important than protecting them from knowing what a despicable human being he is. Try and see if you can meet with them privately and tell them.
      My kids and I are very close, ages 18,19, and 21. THey still want a relationship with their dad which I totally support .. but that doesn’t mean they don’t know how screwed up he is and that what he did to us was dead wrong.

    • Gail, speaking from my own personal experience of having no contact with your adult children, I am in the same boat as you are. My daughter is 35 and my son is 32 and they prefer their sleazy sperm donor to me, the person who raised them and loved them so much but they have cut me from their lives completely. The ex of 37 years (45 years all up, in fact nearly 46 years) was not interested in anything and that included the kids. He is now madly in love with and living with a cheap little tart in Cambodia and it is true love apparently for the first time. That is a nice insult to me and our children. He is 63 years old and is like a kid in a candy store. You see he got rid of me thinking he would cut a sway through the women of Melbourne in Australia just like Errol Flynn did!! Well, he failed miserably so the only way to get the sex he craved was to sell up and move to Cambodia for the young ones. It doesn’t matter who he is with at present, he will still keep looking because he is a friggin idiot. He will get caught eventually with some awful disease and I think that would be poetic justice. However, I am not waiting to hear of his demise and I am getting on with my life because I have no other choice. Stay strong Gail because it does and will get better. I know you possibly don’t believe that at the moment but you will survive this awful journey, trust me. My very best to you.

      • Bide your time, Maree.
        If you ever hear that hes coming back to Australia with his 2 dollar whore from Cambodia, I highly suggest a phone call to immigration, telling them that his wife is only interested in citizenship. And that you suspect people smuggling. I bet thats his next move. Bwahahahaha!

  • During the months I lived with the ex while I prepared the house to sell and packed stuff, I spent weekends (when he would be home) at friends homes, and when he and I had to work on dividing out stuff I asked a close friend to come help/witness, which did NOT stop the tantrum rages, but I felt safer with a witness. Mine also went “nice” for a week after being rage baby for most of a couple years, but he was trying to get me to sign off on him taking a loan on the house. The best part of it was then I realized he wasn’t lost in mental illness, he actually chose to abuse me as his default option. Made it so much easier to leave.

  • Boy, I needed this today. I have had the charm offensive going for several days, but it switches quickly to rage and poor ole me when I assert myself.. today, he accused me of lying… typical move, they accuse you of doing the very thing they are doing.

    Hang tight, the nice won’t last then you’ll remember why you are doing this.

    • That’s how it goes, newchumpatl.

      Although cheaters are masters of manipulation and deception, their toolbox is remarkably shallow. These three tools of charm, rage are all they have to use. And these tools work well for cheaters…sometimes for years or even decades.

      But eventually these tools don’t work because they are one-trick ponies. The keep chumps in line and feeding kibbles, but they aren’t so great at building long-term love and respect.

      Such goals requires different tools: hard work, remorse, sacrifice, patience, honesty, and humility. Each of these tools are like Swiss Army Knives. They address multiple issues, are durable enough to endure repeated stress, and are flexible enough to be adapted to situation at hand.

      Importantly, my honesty, sacrifice, humility, and patience provide value to me, in and of themselves, regardless of my ex-wife’s reaction to them. In contrast, my ex-wife’s charm, rage, and self-pity provided value to her IF AND ONLY IF I responded to them in the manner she wanted.

      • Right on is right. Tonight I got a half hearted confession about breaking no contact with whore yet they are “just friends”. Whatever. When I didn’t react as expected… back to rage, threats of finding a great lawyer to “bury” me, take the kids away from be because I’m paranoid. la la la.. on and on.

  • This one hits too close to home. My ex planned for years exactly how he was going to leave me. I apparently didn’t deserve half of the house so he just stopped paying the mortgage. On a custom home on twenty acres. What a POS loser. That waiting period that most states require just allows Narcs to ruin finances in creative ways. There are ways to address asset division legally and this needs to be done ASAP. Be sure you know what your finances are and be sure you know what a good fair division of assets look like in your circumstances –in my case my Narc never provided an accurate picture of his pay and perks to the court. Take steps to address/protect your biggest assets. Pension. House. Get into writing who pays what during the divorce. Insurance, college fees. Pro rata share is a great place to start. Be sure to educate yourself re child and spousal support formulas. Your lawyer should be educated and experienced in dealing with disordered people as many may go scorched earth (most disordered people will do this even if they make good money). My advice is to hold out for a trial if you suspect dissipation.

  • I’m only 21 days post DDay (which I guess is discovery day?? I don’t get all the letters yet), when I threw him out (his second affair-that I know about) and he has tried to be nice the whole time. Checks my oil, always asks how I’m doing, and this morning he let out the chickens (he’s slumming at his buddy’s summer/weekend place across the road). It’s hollow though, and I almost wish he would be trying to argue with me about stuff. Arguing=giving a damn?
    Last week he threatened to move back in (hotel-style), and yesterday he referred to it as his home, and I was swift to correct him, but short, and then removed myself from the room while he spent time with the kids. (pathetically short time).
    If the money thing was settled and I didn’t have to worry about the bills I believe I could actually be very happy.
    I called a lawyer Friday. Today I photo copied 3 months worth of paycheck stubs, and tomorrow I open my own account.
    Screw him. He lost. Even if he never admits it,

    • Right there with you Christine. I’m just over a month from DDay and if I could get the finances settled I would also be happy. I’m already mentally redecorating my bedroom. I trust that he sucks, have managed to deliver very little emotion in our conversations and have found which of my friends I can lean on. It’s the financial and mental games that are exhausting, and of course the fact that mine won’t leave. (pardon my whining.)

      • Lol, even in the throws of despair I was already mentally filling all those to-be-empty drawers!

    • Christine and Alloutofkibble, contact ppl on any joint accts you have to let them know divorce is happening, that any withdrawals must be signed by both of you. It will freeze those accts.

      • We have no joint anything. Just a checking account with just enough to pay the bills on a good month. His 401K has a whopping $100 in it. My car is in my name, his is in his. We are poor 🙂 I’m just paying bills as usual until I have reason to change. In 3 weeks he has not argued with me about anything (except trying to move back in, and he caved to me pretty quick-though I only expect that to last until his living situation is uncomfortable).
        I know this will not last. He is living in some floating world of few consequences and new-found freedom, and I am only sad I will miss actually seeing when it all comes home to him, what he’s done, and what he’s lost. It will, and it will hurt him as deeply as a shallow man can be hurt (which ain’t much!), but still, this will not last. He will get mean and selfish and unreasonable and so HIM soon enough, and I will smile and stay reasonable and do whatever my lawyer tells me to do.
        Tonight however the air smells thick of roses and trees and Alfalfa from the wet, uncut hayfields nearby, the kids are sleeping soundly, I am Netflixing Supernatural (Mmmmm Dean and Sam…) and I am very much at peace.
        For the past week I have had stuck in my head three lines from a hymn that was playing as I walked into church last week, to the point where my daughter is also singing it everywhere 🙂
        I sing because I’m happy. I sing because I’m free. His eye is on the sparrow and I know he watches me.
        I know this isn’t a Godly site (don’t care, it’s a WONDERFUL site-thankyouthankyouthankyou ChumpLady!!!) but I truly think my finding out about the OW was a direct answer to prayer, and know it means a much better future than past.
        Wow. I write too much. Many apologies!

        • Good for you Christine. I feel the same way as you do about discovery. You were not created to be abused. ANd being cheated on and all the lies and betrayal and crappy treatment that goes with that is not what our Creator intended for you. Be happy!

        • I agree with you here, Christine. I too believe my ex’s affair was what saved *me*. It saved me from wasting any more of my time on someone who was incapable of appreciating/loving me. Why waste our one unique precious life…? I don’t even believe ex is capable of loving our children…. I worked hard, placed my family first, but when he asked me for a divorce (he was fucking his racquetball partner, I figured this out then, lol) I realized my life with this disordered fuck was truly a lesson in futility. There is no such thing as a “good marriage with a Cheater” and I felt it all along. A toast to your new life!

  • Well said JC.Its so hard building a home and a future for your kids only to watch it being dismantled.I felt so powerless watching everything unravel.Hard to figure out but so true that there are people always looking for greener pastures and new cake to chow.I realise that I was just a number to him.There was many before me and there will be many after me.

    • Grace – your dumb ass husband will NEVER be happy no matter how many OW he has! Old, alone, and pathetic fools they continue to grow into instead of growing up. No one respects my STBX including his own family and siblings.. he has lost life long friendships because of how many times he has cheated and hurt his family. I gave up and kicked him out.. I would have wiped his ass when he got old and couldn’t take care of himself, I would have loved him no matter how fat, old, bald, sick he got as we aged.. Despite him being “absent” when I was sick. I’m a size zero, 49 ( people think I look like I’m in my 30’s) and would do anything to help anyone… EXCEPT him now .. and it wasn’t good enough. He did nothing but criticize my looks. He actually told me one of the reasons he strayed was because I didn’t wear enough jewelry?? I sometimes left dishes in the sink?? He was the slob who I constantly cleaned up after without complaint. WHats funny the OW were definite trade downs.

      You get rid of that asshole and Trade up!

        • Yep that was the best he could come up with for why he cheated. Instead of being happy I wasn’t materialistic in the least, thats the bullshit he gives me.
          I’ve suddenly become very materialistic and will squeeze his balls in divorce court for every penny and asset I can get my hands on.

      • KMA, it is sad the bullshit they whinge about to try and get people to side with their reasoning. My XH filed his papers to court requesting alternate weekly visitation with our daughters. Not one hint of his adultery but made mention of cooking, cleaning and my fav putting the bins out each week and bringing them in again.

        That you didn’t wear enough jewellery? This just points at how shallow he his. I hope you are confident in who you are physically and emotionally. Your ex is not worth your time. Love your life and enjoy your future.

        • THank you THankful! I have never felt better. I laughed when you said your x mentioned putting out trash bins… my reject complained about that one too. They are shallow and beyond stupid if that’s the best shit they can come up with for cheating and think anyone would buy into their excuses for being scum.

          C- He’s lucky you were lady-like enough not to kick his dumb ass!

      • My idiot Ex said that EXACT Thing! “Why don’t you wear more jewellery?” Seriously. (I am allergic to metal of any type except 18K+ gold) To which I said, “Why don’t you buy me some?” I was a broke student at the time he was complaining about this, AND we met at BASIC TRAINING. Like military boot camp. He always whined that I wasn’t ‘lady-like’ enough. Ya, we met at fucking boot camp. What did you expect??? I told him to get a mail order bride from a misogynistic country if that is what he really wanted. He traded down too. Good Riddance.

  • Christine I’m 16 months past DDay never thought it would happen.It felt so surreal and I thought I would never get this far but it is possible.I watched so many women stay with serial cheaters some even looking after kids they had with OW.There are ppl even desperate enough to use witchcraft to keep these exes.Serial Cheaters are piles of crap let OW deal have him and his wandering penis.

  • I think dumbass was being ‘nice’ so that I wouldn’t FIGHT over anything in the divorce. I plan to go into mediation (one of these days. I think..??) armed. He was all nicey nice saying “I want you to be comfortable.” That really meant “I don’t want you to take half MY pension, MY 401K, the house, the difference between his 2013 F150 and my 2000 CRX because I am just TOO nice.” Well asswipe – here’s my nice: Fuck Off! And I think I will be ‘comfortable’ with MY half of the pension, the house, the cash difference between vehicles…..

  • We were engaged and living together for the last three years. I had clues that I ignored, but he was also very good at lying. Had enough therapy/ treatment to sound like he was being honest about issues. Claimed to be “co-dependent ” lol. After he admitted (in text) to occasionally seeing prostitutes for oral sex, I was devastated but for some reason thought this was something we could address. After I was sobbing and he told me I was “acting crazy”, something in me clicked and I knew he was lying. That weekend I downloaded a backup external drive of his computer. I found a file where he had a link to his Erotic Forum account- nice little “reviews” of all his hideousness. I just kept finding more and more lies and documenting them. Then I confronted him and kicked him out of his house. Since I live in his house and work for his company, but we are not married – it made me very vulnerable. I also now have herpes. I decided to be the bitch. I used to be the karma will get them type, but it seems it rarely does, so I am suing. I just decided that I was willing to go scorched earth on him. He pretended that he had been a “chump” to get past my defenses. Fuck him. I am 40 days past Dday now. Have an attorney who took my case on a % base, and I am still in the house and on the company payroll. I decided that I am the instrument of Karma- when I feel weak, I just read his review of the 18 yr old, speaks fluent Russian, and live in gratitude that we have no shared children and that they are all adults. He goes from game to game. Screw him. I have the paperwork and I’m not afraid to use it. He intentionally gave me a life long std, which even if we were married would be a seperate cause of action. I know in time my rage will pass, but, for now, I am using it.

    • I Hope you win Gone. Suffering myself from ex’s parting gift that keeps on giving, if the damn doctor had performed the correct test I would have sued my ex for that too. For some ppl it’s not life letting, for me I’m sick all the time now. Kick his ass Jedi Ninja, I’m cheering for you!

  • A disordered person has only three reasons for being nice in this situation:

    1. He is being nice because he wants to keep you on a string in case the affair partner doesn’t work out, or he has some other use for you later.

    2. He is being nice now to butter you up so you won’t go so hard on him in divorce. He plans on screwing you over, but doesn’t want that to happen to him.

    3. He is being nice as a form of image control. If he portrays himself as a nice guy, “See? I’m still so friendly to her, even though SHE’S the bad one,” he wins over people who don’t know the real story and comes out smelling like a rose.

    Doesn’t matter if the disordered person is male or female, they all play this same game and the three reasons are the heart of it. Note that they are never nice out of genuine good feelings — it’s always a game to get something of benefit to themselves.

    • Ha! yes, mine is stuck on number 3. I asked if he told his mother. He said yes and she said “I’m sorry to hear that.” which sounded odd so I asked what he told her and he said “that we were having problems.”
      He says “This is our business” and it’s nobody else’s business. Not sure where he gets the “our” part of that. It wasn’t my business for the many years he was having an affair, just his business. Heaven help him when this legal battle is over. I believe the truth shall light the way.

      • I would flat out tell her myself. That’s what I did. Set the record straight before he gives his line of bullshit.

      • My XH moved in with his mother When we separated and on the request of church eldership he never told her the truth- the excuse was to prevent gossip and protect our children. Because they shouldn’t know why mummy and daddy are apart. These idiots also were of the opinion that if I just sat quietly as a bystander in my own life then they could work on fixing XH and if I was committed just enough there was still hope for my marriage. PASS. Because no one was meant to know what he had done XH just thought he could continue with his life with no consequences, when he threatened me for telling people 4 months post D’day I rung his mother and told her. She didn’t care she quickly turned the conversation to how poorly I had treated her little darling not just since separation but for the entire 20 yrs we had been together.

        Now they all act like I died and that his new GF has always been a part of his life. They do everything together. He feeds on this as he even insisted that our daughter by his mother and the girlfriend a Mother’s Day present in May. He and the GF have been together since November last year, March this year if you our trying to present as being an honourable Christian as that is when our divorce became final.

        Wow they are all so dysfunctional it is comedic.

    • The nice mask is like the old self and you think aaah hello you are back, how lovely. However it never feels quite as genuine as it used to be, it feels fake. Now you can see that it is just acting. How can you spend so much of your time acting and being manipulative. Why cant they just live and behave functionally. I just don’t get it. Are they acting nice when they are with friends and colleagues?? who is the real person?? its confusing.

  • The Wandering Penis…has a nice ring to it. Maybe that’s what I’ll title my Phillip Roth-style tell all…make some money. Subtitle, anyone?

  • For all you folks out there who have an ex who gets military retirement and pays into the Survivor Benefit Plan, listen up. My ex retired in 1999. At that time, the law stated that they could NOT change the beneficiary on SBP. The law has since changed, but my ex was “stuck” with me. I get 50% while he is still living of his retirement each month and once he dies I will get 55% according to our paperwork. Very important for my financial future if I should out live him. What I did NOT know is that as the beneficiary of SBP, you have only one year after the divorce is final to contact the Defense Finance and Accounting office in London, Kentucky and request DD Form 2656-10 Former Spouse Deemed Elective of SBP Benefits. This way if ex remarries then his Schmoopie has no claim on his retirement at all. I had no idea I had to do this. I figured it was a done deal in the SBP paperwork and if I had not talked to a very knowledgable person at DFAS then I may have had a nasty surprise down the road. Just a caution, make sure you cross your “t’s” and dot your “I’s” once all is said and done with your divorce!

      • My lawyer, who otherwise was decent, didn’t even know spouses can collect X-partner’s social security if they had been married at least 10 years and are not married at the time of collection.

        • Are you kidding me??? My mom said in the early stages to make sure I ask about that since we had been married 20 years. I asked my lawyer and she corrected me with the 10 years. That is a little unnearving that the lawyer wasn’t aware of that….

          • I thought so, too. (I did go with one of the newer people in a prestigious firm to save hourly fees, since I did all the work for filing, disclosure, etc.)

      • No and I made sure she knew I was not happy about it! But Thank heavens I found out long before the one year was over! Also found out that my military health insurance was an entitlement, but not the Dental so I had to get AARP Delta Dental. My ex has to pay for that also! It’s all good!

        • Phew! At least if another military wife hires your attorney – she will be sure to inform them. Yes – good thing you found out! I would have been PISSED had I found out too late!

  • December 2013 I discovered my husband was having an affair while I was 2,5 months pregnant with 2nd child.I left him 2 months later.After I had the baby I filed for divorce.He wasn’t wearing his wedding band anymore and he said women are built to forgive and stay with men that sleep around.Baby was 2 months old when I discovered Chump Lady and the Mighty Chump Nation.I started reading all the articles and everything started to make sense.U guys helped me take each step everyday and I have not been intimate with m stbxh for 16 months.Yay me.I’m never going back to him.Its painful and hard but there’s no choice because his a serial cheater.

    • Since the stress of this all has caused me to have an almost continuos herpes out break for the past month- it hasn’t been hard for me to not give in.
      With my first husband, I kicked him out and found out I was pregnant a few weeks later with our second child. I kept going back and forth for almost a year, even after he was living with a gf (that he of course denied). He gave me HPV which resulted in cervical cancer and a hysterectomy at 26.
      Stay strong! It is so hard with small children, but it’s not worth it.

      • Grace

        You have so much strength. Their selfishness is so beyond comprehension. I hope you filed a suit against both of them for damages. I believe you can do this in most states.

    • Grace, you are mighty as hell, what a badass to go forward with a baby. I’m glad Chump Nation/Chumplady is helping you but you aren’t giving yourself enough credit.

      Rock on and Jedi hugs!

  • I’m so sorry Gone.When I read stories like yours I appreciate the small mercies that I have.You are truly brave and strong.Your story will serve as a warning to me and many others that are reading.Thanks for sharing.I won’t forget you.

  • Being nice to you always worked before, caused you to acquiesce to his requests? Don’t forget the flip side, the cycle, when you do not respond the way he expects he’ll stop being nice. Next up, rage or apologies designed to suck you in, or threats to kill himself. None of it is about you Polly, it’s all about him.

    I’d like to know why you can’t tell friends and family he cheated, I can understand not revealing you have hard evidence if you live in a fault state. Does he not know that you know?

    Be strong, trust yourself, don’t trust one damn thing he says or does from here on out. Read Gift of Fear, it will help you reclaim your intuition, See trough his manipulation and it will remind you of who you are.

    Jedi hugs!

  • Mine stayed for almost a year too and refused to move out even though he wanted the divorce because I was such a “bad wife” and his EA was “a good person.” He slept on the couch and I had our bedroom and in the evenings after the children were asleep I would lie in bed and read and he would call out to me from the living room asking where I was and what I was doing and if I wanted to come and watch a show with him. Things like this would make me think “maybe this is just a rough spot.” Wrong. The next day it was back to “you’re so awful and why don’t you get that this is over?” Ummm… because you’re still living here with me and our small children? I am so much freer not having to live with that tension, because it wasn’t the original man I married I was living with the past year, it was some sort of bizarro-zombie freak I don’t even recognize anymore.

  • Kick these cheating turds to the curb! I finally kicked mine out because I could not imagine a marriage where trust was gone! I did not want to live a life of checking up on him forever. He lied constantly and it was never going to stop and I just wasn’t going to spend another day dancing my ass off trying to be a priority in his life! I was only a “bit” player and I got all the shit jobs to make him look good! Fuck him! File, go NC, use your power of the word “no” in mediation or just take it to the judge. Squeeze the SOB’s balls, but get out and start thinking about yourself and your kids, if you have kids! These bastards don’t want to change, they want you to let them do whatever they want and keep your mouth shut! Manipulation is only the tip of their abuse. Kick the fuckers out and get on with a decent, honest life!! It’s the hardest thing to do, but it will in time prove to be the best decision you make!! I was devastated when I finally realized I had no other choice but to throw him out. It was probably the lowest day of my life and, yes, I did second guess myself, but I promise it just gets better! Take control of yourself and the situation. Look out for yourself and don’t worry one bit about the cheater because I can assure you, he ain’t worrying about you! He is only worried about his assets! Set out to get as much of them as you can. Believe me, you have earned them. Look at it as “payment” for the heartache and shit they brought into your life!!

  • Thanks Datdamwuf.I’m only 25.The stories in this site have made me realise that staying with a serial cheater is not a good choice.More other other women,stolen years,etc.I was looking at my kids sleeping last night.Their my pride and joy.The future is unknown but I know that when you leave a cheater you gain a life.Nothing to set you back on the right trail like you spouse stabbing you in the back.God Bless All.

    • Grace, I was 25 when I married my ex and I stayed with him for 20 years. Wish I could have those two decades back. You are very wise to cut your losses and get out now while you are young. Now I’m 50 and have a great boyfriend, but let’s face it…. I wish I could have my body back from my 20s.

  • Dear Chump Nation, Remember Tomyris.

    Tomyris was a queen of a semi-nomadic tribe in Eastern Persia about 500 BC. Cyrus the Great had everything. But he wanted MORE. He was a classic, spoiled, narcissist. (He WAS great. He was the first king to grant freedom of religion, as well as many other improvements to the lives of the people in his empire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great). But nothing was ever enough. He wanted MORE CAKE.

    So he started bullying the widowed queen of his neighbors, the Massagetae, Tomyris (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomyris). First, it was a transparent marriage proposal to get his hands on the lands of her and her people. When she refused, he switched from narcissistic CHARM to RAGE. He sulked off to his advisors and came up with an underhanded plan. He started building a bridge onto her territory. She sent him a letter asking him to ‘stop his conquest’ and have their two peoples live beside each other without war. He didn’t stop. He just HAD TO HAVE EVERYTHING. Does THIS sound familiar?

    Tomyris then challenged him to a battle. She let him choose the location. He chose her side of the river. (Because he did not want to ‘lose land to a woman’: (’http://www.taarna.net/Tomyris.html. Narcissistic ego, right there.) Instead of fighting fairly, he left a poorly guarded camp full of food and wine. Tomyris’ soldiers defeated the soldiers easily and helped themselves to food and wine. Unfortunately, the Massagetae people were not used to alcohol, and they soon became very drunk. This is when Cyrus’ forces struck. Unable to fight back effectively, many men were taken prisoner, including Tomyris son, Spargapises. (Lies & backstabbing. Hmmm.)

    Tomyris then give Cyrus ANOTHER chance to make amends even after he cheated against the generally accepted rules of warfare at the time. Even this great queen was kept in the Unicorn Limbo of ‘Reconciliation’. She asked that her son be returned unharmed, and that he leave, and she acknowledged his victory. “Restore my son to me and get you from the land unharmed, triumphant over a third part of the host of the Massagetai.” – http://www.taarna.net/Tomyris.html)

    I am sure that time and again we Chumps have offered more consideration then what was deserved. That is never enough. Not for our Ex’s, and not enough to Cyrus.

    Not only did Cyrus not accept, he coaxed her son into committing suicide. Apparently, he did not take the SECOND part of her letter seriously. It read “Refuse, and I swear by the sun, the sovereign lord of the Massagetai, bloodthirsty as you are, I will give you your fill of blood.” (http://www.taarna.net/Tomyris.html). After this declaration, Tomyris instituted ‘No Contact.’

    She made good on her promise. Her army defeated the mighty Persians, and Cyrus was killed in battle. She had her soldiers find his body. She cut off his head. She had a wine skin / punch bowl (the stories differ) brought to her. It was full of blood. Then she plunged the head of the once mighty, Cyrus the Great, into the blood, like a cleaning sponge into a toilet bowl.

    Her second most famous quotation uttered while she did this said: “I live and have conquered you in fight, and yet by you am I ruined, for you took my son with guile; but thus I make good my threat, and give you your fill of blood.” (http://www.taarna.net/Tomyris.html).
    There is no reasoning with a selfish, cruel, narcissist. There is no way to earn their love. There is no way to get them to ‘play fair’. They care nothing for anyone but themselves, and will destroy anyone they want to in order to get their way. Tomyris tried time and again to reason, play fair, and appeal to the humanity of Cyrus. He did not care, because to him, she was not a person, she was an opposer to be crushed.

    And that, Chump Nation is what we are up against. How many things have been taken from US by guile?

    It is not immoral for good people to stand up and fight back. Evil people are NOT unbeatable. They only want us to think that they are. The key is to KNOW and UNDERSTAND that we have value infinitely beyond what we could dream. To know that there are MANY others just like us, fighting the same horrible battle (Thank You Chump Lady Blog). Once discovered, that knowing becomes a force more powerful then any lies or manipulation. Do not let them take the will to fight away from you.

    We have been betrayed by the people who were closest to us. We have lost love and lives we clung to. Like the grieving mother of a lost son, some of the hurts we have suffered can never be totally made right. We have a moral centre that prohibits us from exacting revenge. But do not let despair overtake you, and do not cede and inch. Go down fighting. A lack of revenge does not mean justice will not come.

    Be like Tomyris. She fought by rules. She acted to preserve life and harmony. She did not invade Persia in revenge. She did not become evil when confronted with evil. When a narcissistic bully tried to destroy her, she let lose a righteous fury that crushed him.

    I’ll wager that after grieving for her son and her lost countrymen, Tomyris came her victory banquet, and while toasting the freedom of her people, looked at Cyrus’ floating head in a punch bowl full of blood, and said ‘MEH’.

    (Thank you Chump Lady and Chump Nation. You are, and have been, my Angels of Support.)

      • Thank you Gone, Nic, and Moose. This blog, and many of your comments have been such a help to me, I felt inspired to point out that there are Chumps THROUGH OUT history. Many did not STAY Chumps. They took those lemons, and made DAMN GOOD lemonade! Tomyris just happens to be my favourite! (Sorry for the typos, though). Down with Liars! Up with Lovely People!
        Hugs from Canada 🙂

  • wow I found out about the fake niceness!! we just swapped our finances legal forms with lawyers and guess what. He shut down our joint company and has drained the money on OW and now set up a new company. He has made false statements on legal forms and said everything is mine!! he forgot to list a pension and has not provided one single uptodate valuation. Im so angry, this means more letters which costs more money. But I am not letting him get away with it as I have evidence as I copied everything before I confronted him about OW. I have also decided that once divorce is over I am going to tell the truth. Yes I will let go but that does not mean I am going to disappear into the sunset and let him ruin my name with smears. For me I feel I need to fight to get my self esteem back, Im sick of being treated like a muppet.

  • I was in a 18 yr marriage. I had to force him out of my house because of a domestic dispute. The truth came out he fucked around on me I would not argue with him. He complained about the back door saying everything he does is not good enough . And he struck me well of course the course lr action is to lash back right. He beat me so bad that he chocked me out and broke my ear drum. I had enough I called the cops he fled well took off two hours to his brothers wish h my kids. In PA its technically not kid napping unless one party goes to the courts and files a pfa battery complaint. I went to the courts ans told them what happen gotten granted a three year pfa. So I took the fucker for child support and custody.

    I was granted primary custody of the kids and child support. He is playing nice buying food and such wasted of his irs check kay so he claims he paid the bills. I received a irs arears lime a day after he went on this spending spree. Had the fucking balls to say lets works this out of court. So I was like yeah what ever. I received court papers in the mail he is contesting the support to be lowered. I receive no money other wise taking care of mentally disabled kids. So I was told by ssa I can get ssi. Well he hesrd this and told me well if your getting that why do u need my support. I was like I still need it.
    He has no business he says to know what I am doing unless it is for the kids. So he tells me he loves the kids ans will take me back to court. I am filing a petition for supposal support for the 18 years of marriage. I am entitled to. Also a lean on his 14,000 dollar car he leased that he can’t pay for his mamma is paying for it. I was told by the lawyer to file for a settlement and he owns nothing so I have to file for a contested divorce so he is required to pay debt during the marriage.
    Can squeeze shit out of a dry sack. He is full of shit anyways.
    I stayed and he was a pussy and ran off to his families. Men who best women should get their hands cut off period.
    It started over guilt and unhappiness.
    Hang in. There girl.

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