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The Chump and the Psychic

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psychic-fair-cancelledDid anyone see this crazy story in the New York Times yesterday? A very gullible 32-year-old man in Brooklyn paid over $700,000 to a psychic.

In summer 2013, the man was melancholy. He had a good job in marketing, with an office in New York, some support staff and a growing list of connections. But he had met a woman in Arizona named Michelle. He was in love. She was not. “The girl didn’t want to be with me, and the girl had categorically made that clear,” he wrote in the statement.

On Aug. 24, 2013, he walked across the Williamsburg Bridge and wound up in front of 253 West 43rd Street. The neon sign in the window read “Psychic.”

As you can imagine, this doesn’t end well. The psychic is only too happy to sell him hope that Michelle will reciprocate his affections… for a sum. You know, the psychic has to cajole the evil spirits that are thwarting them. And she had to build a “time machine” with his gold Rolex watch…. and lure a spirit over a golden bridge.

The con only ended when the man learned (not from the psychic) that Michelle had died of a drug overdose. Apparently, the evil spirits won.

Before you snark at how idiotic this guy is to pay $700,000 to a wingnut psychic — let me ask you — how much did you spend to control uncontrollable outcomes? In your grief and vulnerability, how much did you spend on your Amazon chump habit? Marriage retreats? Attending couples counseling alone?

Sure, there is something deranged and stalker-ish about a man who would so obsessively pursue a woman who wasn’t interested. Which is very different than investing a life in someone and having huge sunk costs. Or getting mixed signals from the cheater.

But IMO, the hope is the same — I Can Pay Someone to Fix This! They see things I don’t see. They’ll show me the work around! I can control the uncontrollable! Because… I don’t want to be alone. I don’t want to consider other outcomes. I don’t want to fail.

When it comes to the supernatural, some people see unicorns, and some people see psychics in Brooklyn.

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • I think many of us chumps hope for a magic fix. But there is none. I know I will always love the man I thought he was but in the end the true colors showed so onward to the better peace I have now.

    • ^^This^^

      I very much love and miss the man I thought X was. That person, of course, was a fiction.

      Onward and upward. 🙂

      • I agree completely with that—I was still in love and yearning for the man I married, who was very very different from the man I divorced. Either that, or he was a really really good actor for many years.

        • I think their character has time to “ripen” like a bottle of wine…. I know I changed too, but my character did not.

    • Ditto what you wrote.I too have entertained magical fix ideas over these past few months…but I came to the conclusion that 1. There’s just too much that needs fixing and 2. Even if I could go back to the beginning of the relationship and have a do-over- it was 23+ years of and awful lot of work ….and it WASN’T WORTH IT!
      So, yeah…..we shouldn’t have to work so hard.

    • // ,

      That’s an interesting choice of words, Kar Marie.

      Hast ever read the novel called “A Separate Peace”, by John Knowles?

      “The rest of the world is at war, but Gene and the other boys at Devon have achieved a peace outside of that war, a peace that is separate from it.”

      Sometimes it’s better to find a separate peace, I think.

  • I was fortunate, if you want to call it that. After the initial shock & fear (I’m a SAHM), I embraced the concept of divorce & filed a month after he moved out. Usually cheaters have “exit affairs” because they want to get divorced. His affair, fling, whatever was MY exit. Before that, I didn’t have a *reason* for divorce per my vows. Now if he would just get my attorney his discovery, I could officially move on!

    • Damn, Girl, THIS ^^^^^ WOW!!! Over 2 months now since I discovered his “ultimate plan” to leave me, and you wrote exactly what I have been feeling—

      These last few years of dealing with his bullshit, his moodiness, the tension I felt when he was home/around, but could never justify throwing him out— until a couple months ago…

      It’s a longer process than I thought it would be, but now I have the words to articulate what I have been feeling all these years, thank you!!!!

  • Just over 2k to a MC who looked and acted like Mr. Rogers.

    This guy was pretty flaky and after he asked me ” how I was going to bring Mr. Cheater Pants back to the marriage”, my gut told me I was done with it.

    Basically the MC asked me to up my pick my dance! Since I had unknowing been dancing for 3 years, I was tired if doing the dance partner-less and waved my white flag.

    I immediately went to IC and started working on myself.

    If I had truly listened to my gut and watched my H’s actions, we would but have gone to MC.

    He was later able to tell everyone we “tried” ( after telling me he was all out of “try” cause he had been keeping score against me for years ).

    It’s not a lot of money – but since I was left pretty much homeless and jobless in a strange city – it sure felt like it.

    Needless to say “Meh” cost me nothing but time and patience.

    Hopefully some of our new chumps read your post today and save their money for the lawyers!

    • I also wasted about $2K on MC. It still makes me angry to this day. I told the psychologist right from the start, We’re not here for you to be a MC. We may get to that. Firstly, we’re here for you to diagnose my CW’s problems. I suggested to him in my first private meeting with him, that my CW was personality disordered. He just scoffed at the idea.

      It seems, in the word of psychology, us non-psychologists couldn’t possibly make a well researched diagnosis, and anything we do say must be immediately pushed aside. I consider myself intelligent, university educated, I’m a health practitioner who has diagosed and treated patients (in another health field) for over 25 years. My point is, my opinion about my CW’s PD, wasn’t some stab in the dark guess. It was well researched and considered.

      Thank God for Tracy & CL!

  • I inherited 60 000 and let him move it straight on to his business debt. Now we are separated he is arguing that I take responsibility for the rest of his debt as well. The 60 000 has vanished. I thought letting him take it would show him I trusted him . So stupid-I should have hidden it.

    • If it was a loan, and not a gift (to him), then I would seek legal counsel. You MAY be able to get your inheritance back. I had 3 attorneys tell me “no” and one that told me I could if I could if I can trace my inheritance to business investments… he suggested we begin with a forensic accountant. I suggest a little research on your part.

    • My inheritance is gone, paying off cheater pants immense credit card debts. At that point I only had a hunch that he was up to no good. I was thinking off the family and trying to fix things. His bad money management was only a reflection of his overall callousness. His affair was in full bloom at that time and needless to say he continued to rake up more debts afterwards. I regret this so much, I lost everything not trusting my gut that he actually sucks. If I had kept my money safe I would be in a much better position now to speed up the divorce process. Lesson learned the hard way.

  • My XH was apparently cured of his desire for men purely by telling me. This was later backed up with some good old fashion deliverance.

    Unfortunately I am too big a sceptic so now his gf soon to be fiancé is reaping all this new found goodness. And I am only 18 months out from d’day.
    But I did find MEH! T-shirt today. Disappointed it was not in my size.

  • Amazon bill-pretty much zero, I was lucky to find you first!
    Counselling with Mr Fab-about a grand. Dude was useless. A stage for Mr Fab, further pummeling. I put my faith in the counselor, and it frankly made things worse.

    It’s not the money, CL, it is the cost in thought and effort and love. Dat put it well on a recent thread-you’ve been in a war you didn’t know was being waged against you. Post Discovery Day, you are already exhausted and vulnerable, but suddenly have to survive. “There are no atheists in foxholes” as they say. I didn’t really believe in, or understand evil until all this happened. Being emotionally raped and left for dead does make you kinda vulnerable. I could easily have taken the route the guy in the article did.

    Yeah…so, at that point, you DO want a miracle. Turn to ———(insert spiritual element here). RCI are shysters every bit as much as this ‘psychic’, though. Repugnant, morally bereft snake oil peddlars. Chumps make good marks, I guess. If I believed in magic, I would curse these ‘psychics’ myself.

    love to Chump Nation
    x-Meh

    • Mephista said “……I put my faith in the counselor, and it frankly made things worse………”

      That’s what makes me so angry. Everyone says , you need professional help, a MC. It’s not the cost, but they make your problem worse by rationalising the CS’s behaviour. Incompetent arseholes.

      • Yep. The one we went to was a child psychologist to boot-hired on the understanding he might help Mr Fab figure out that DD was Not Very Happy after he moved in with the Downgrade (DDs ‘auntie,).

        Waste. Of. Time. and. Money. MC was more than happy to support Mr Fab’s abuse. Individual counseling is the way to go, with a professionally registered and peer-reviewed mental health advocate who is in it for YOU, as a survivor of abuse. Anything else is hopium.

        x-Meh.

    • Same here, I haven’t spent a dime on therapy/marriage-saving books— I found ChumpLady and the Mighty Chump Nation first!!! So thankful for the night/moment I googled, “…my husband says he isn’t happy…”

  • Retrospectively I danced and twirled for years. Short term, when I put all the pieces together I filed within a week. Over a year later he moved out, but only with his suitcase (last Sunday) and he still has “access” to the house until June 30 to get the rest of his stuff out. Today is the first day that I am up without my kids. My plan was to move all his shit out of the closet to some area of the house where he can pick it up by June 30. However, I seem to be paralyzed. I have waited over a year for him to move, have felt emotionally strong, and now the day has dawned and I’m struggling. Does anyone have any tips to start moving this boat forward as a single, strong, kick ass woman?

    • Dont think… Just do it. Pretend its for goodwill. Dont sort. Dont look at it. Dont try to keep something. These things are getting in your way… The need to moved. Move them to the garage. Move things that you need from the garage… Put his things there. Close the door. Dont open it until its gone. Cry then.
      U got this.

      • Thank you TheClip. I will do. I’m waiting for ex to bring daughter by for an appointment. Returning a dog I adopted b/c he was ‘reactionary’ to a good friend. And crying in my coffee. So I will pull up my panties and get moving. You all are so inspirational. I think I worked so hard at the NC, good divorce lawyer, being honest with my kids, getting a job, etc, etc…that I am wholly unprepared for this massive weight to be lifted and the lightness makes me cry and spin because my direction is unknown…through counseling I have learned to listen to myself and reach out. This is the only site where I feel completely safe. And boy it was a sucky ride. Now comes the rebuilding….

        • Hugs…we totally get what you are feeling. It hurts right to your core, but YOU HAVE GOT THIS OW…keep facing and walking forward.

      • I know all my XH’s shit left our home and is currently being stored at his future wife’s house. She even has custody of his piano. He doesn’t live there (he doesn’t sleep at night there) that would be unchristian of them. I would love to see both their faces when they are married and cohabitateing and they start sorting through the 20+ boxes of his shit I packed as scattered through them are our wedding photos, and many of the lame ass gifts he bought me like a book on antique cars for our first wedding anniversary. Don’t focus on it just move it. I listened to music while I did it.
        You can do this.
        Hugs to you.

        • Thankful–that’s funny! They should have fun with that! I got through four drawers, using Glad trash bags and just dumping stuff in. I saw several notes from me to him when I was doing the pick me dance…I had bought heart shaped sticky notes so “we could communicate on the little stuff”. Looking back, he never once returned a note or said thank you. What a jerk! Hopefully by end of day I will have my closet arranged! It’s like a freakin’ tank ran me over!

          • I found the packing up to be really heard. I did most of in the first couple months, and I vomited multiple times throughout. Hang in there! It is so much better once it is done and the stuff is gone. I had no idea the weight that seeing all that stuff everyday was having on me until it was gone. It helped me move forward a little more…

          • OutWest, I know how you feel! My ex just picked up the rest of his belongings on the 19th of May. I had most of his stuff packed for over a year in my formal dining room. I was also paralyzed and totally spent just thinking about packing the rest of his crap. I finally just gutted it out and went to auto pilot! It’s awful because it’s so very final, but I have to tell you that once it was done I actually felt better. It’s not closure the way we wanted, but at least there is a mental line of demarcation and it’s at this point I actually started making solid plans for myself. The “clutter” was gone and it helped to clear my mind. Put some music on, get the boxes and bags ready and just start chucking his shit into them! After about 5 minutes you will be feeling better, I promise!

            • Roberta–I had to live with my x and his stuff for a year….the lawyers tell me that after the date of when he has to get stuff out I can donate, sell, trash whatever with no obligation to him…Time is ticking. It is so very final and I’m reeling from the reality of being ‘discarded’ but have gradually realized I was discarded years ago. I have read your story avidly b/c I think we have in common getting ‘decent settlements’ although I’m worried he won’t pay….Thank you for the support. Heading back in this AM with coffee and music. I can’t allow myself to be paralyzed because it signifies to me that he is then ‘still in control’ and I never, ever, want anyone to have a similar hold on me again!

              • I totally understand OutWest and so does CN! And I worry that my ex will somehow, someway just stop paying his alimony and other obligations also, but I try to plan now for those sorts of things. It’s actually easier to have these plans now that I know what he is capable of doing, or should I say NOT doing! It’s still tough on some days, but it is getting better. I hope for the best, but plan for the worst! What a way to live a life, huh? But I’m determined to take control of my future! He can go to Hell! I will be thinking of you and I wish you the best!

    • Give yourself some time & a little slack. Like most things, you don’t really know how you’re going to react to them until it happens. Once the shock of it wore off, I was so happy he was out! No more smelly socks, no more half filled beer cans full of chew spit! Ticking off the positive helped me get over the realization that my life had changed. Now it’s so clear it’s changed for the better!

      • That’s a good point whodathunk….I am opening closets and his stuff is everywhere, I realized a few months ago that his personality and stuff had been giving off a bad vibe for years, there has been no room in our relationship for me or my things….I was so obviously unimportant to him….I’m definitely feeling the shock waves today. It doesn’t help that this is is first weekend of custody with the kids…

        • It takes time, hon. I would be in bits when DD went to stay with Mr Fabulous and the Downgrade. Suggestion-use that time to pack his stuff, get it the heck out of your face. Worked wonders for me.

        • Reclaim your space. Think of it as redecorating. That way instead of his stuff being painful reminders of a shattered past, it will be you clearing the way for a new and improved future. Spend the time choosing paint colors and looking for artwork. If he was in a separate bedroom, turn it into somethong else; an office, a sewing room, a media room, whatever you’ve always wanted. Fem it up a bit. Ask the kids for input, it may help them with their healing too. Some de-lousing spray and a fresh coat of paint can work wonders.

          • Outwest, do you have a good girlfriend who can help you do this. I would get massive black trash bags. What ever you pack goes black, goes to the door and looks just like good will. Packing is too strong a word, dumping it in black trashbags is the better way to do this. I am still getting rid of my XH shit, but he doesn’t want it so into good will it goes. You have this, play some kick ass rock and roll really loud.

            • ringinonmyownbell–funny about the girlfriend, I do. Our ex’s are friends from High School and we both got chumped in same year—her divorce is dryer than mine. Unfortunately, she has her kids this weekend so no help for me….I’m doing black trash bags too….what is it “birds of a feather flock together”….they have a flock of two.

          • Mephista and Carmella–thanks! I always want it done now, but am realizing I will have to take some time. I know he left his shit behind as his last “controlling NARC gesture” just because he could, and I’m determined for him to see that he no longer has control of me. I am redecorating several rooms and have purchased a new, beautiful feminine bed (I get the sense that many people on CL have lived with their Narcs have spaces that are decorated with only one person in mind). Anyway, I have managed to re-envision space….I am including kids, but at the same time, they seem so shell shocked—he moved them into his mother’s house but with no preparation or thought as to how they would adjust….so I’m taking it slow here trying to keep their sense of safety intact…I could use de-lousing spray, I think I need Eradico!

              • OK–I have one–What do I do, seriously, with my former FIL’s ashes, AND the OW he left my STBX’s mother for? They both died in the same year from cancer. My STBX’s family doesn’t like to “deal with things and talk about things”, hence no one has had much reaction to the fact that he up and left me and our two small daughters and is involved in an EA with a married ho-worker, I mean co-worker with five kids of her own. Anyway, his sister handed over the ashes at FIL’s funeral, saying she “couldn’t bear to have them around” his brother wanted nothing to do with them b/c of the way the man had treated his mother, so we ended up with them and then when STBX was cleaning out FIL’s house, he came home with OW’s ashes too, (she died before FIL and he kept her ashes rather than spread them), and her own kids didn’t want to claim them. It’s so sad–we ended up with these people’s ashes and my STBX and his siblings have never gotten together to discuss what to do with them or where might be an appropriate place to spread them. Now my STBX, who’s basically repeating history by leaving me with small children the way FIL did, has been gone seven months and I still have a ton of his stuff and–the ashes! He does not come from a “take charge, deal with the tough stuff” family, as I’ve come to learn. I can’t help but wonder if having these ashes in my house brought negative energy that contributed to the breakdown in my marriage. Then again, it’s probably the fact that my ex turned out to be a gigantic narcissist like his dad that caused this… Seriously though, what would you do?

              • Mystique – put them in a box and send them to the families who “own” them. USPS does a great job of delivering ashes. Get rid of them.

              • Mystique, I would send them back too. Drop them on the porch of someone in the family. If not one of their kids, what about a sibling, niece, nephew. etc.?

              • Well, I wouid probably notify the people first before dropping the boxes on the porch (to make sure they were in town and the boxes would not be left outside for a long time, etc), but I was thinking that leaving them on the porch could avoid any unwanted contact with the family. Or actually….they really should be the ones coming to get the boxes from you…

              • YES!!! I had to go to Wal-Mart and get some fresh sage from produce, let it dry out for about a week, rolled white cotton thread around the leaves and smudged!!! It has REALLY helped clear out the bad ju-ju!!!

            • Hey OutWest,

              It is amazing what a new bed will do, or at least new sheets.

              I couldn’t afford to redecorate the whole house, but what I did was scrounge a half can of paint and painted one wall in each room a new color.

              I feel for your kids-mine had to move the OW’s thong-covered laundry rack out of ‘her’ room at her Dad’s every time. She never wanted to take any of her stuff there. At my place, DD gave her room a makeover, and WE decided on the hot pink couch.

              I LOVE my place! Yep the furntiure is all Goodwill grade, the carpets suck and it is not what i had in mind. But it is mine-my room has paintings, my colors, my books, my art. And my DD and I are working on the living room together. Home Sweet Home indeed!

              x-Meh

              • My ex moved into his parents house, his father passed away several years ago (triggering his midlife shenanigans) and his mother is doing poorly. They moved over this weekend to poorly thought out space and no supplies. I informed x the kids would not be living out of suitcases and he needed to get things set up. We shall see. On my end, I’m doing something in each kid’s room to let them know that this is “our” house, not their dad’s, and that all three of us have a say in what our space looks like! Thanks Roberta, I read your story and think “Wow, she’s got it together”….I have also planned for the worse financially, I’m hoping that because his image is important to him he will hold up his end….it was an expensive dalliance for him….and if all goes well, a relaxing, and simple life for me and kids….

    • In my experience, I sort of settled in with the pain during each stage of the process, and then I’d start to feel stronger – – until a new stage began. Then, with each change in events and circumstances, I’d feel like shit all over again. I did notice, however, that each time this happened, I felt less bad than the previous time. And today, I’m doing OK.

      Look, you know you’re doing the right thing. This should give you some comfort. You’ve seen so many people in CN hurt like they’ve never hurt before, and how they come out better on the other side. This should give you hope.

      This is going to hurt like hell. Let it hurt. It will not hurt forever. Soon enough, his shit will be gone, and you can resume your healing.

      You asked how to start “moving this boat forward as a single, strong, kick ass woman”. I think you already have started. You’re not pining for a dog turd. You’re looking to the future. This is all good.

      Just plow through each hurtful stage, and know you’re strong enough to make it. You can do this.

      • Thank you all! Just put his toiletries etc. in garbage bags. Lined up against wall. Now moving my stuff in. Crying the whole time. Thank you for the vote of confidence GettingOverIt, I have been “strong and cheerful” for so long. I always seem to forget that with each “phase” comes unexplored pain and fear that I must walk through to get to the other side! I knew from CL and CN that I had to be uber pulled together during the process and managed that as a general rule. Now I think my emotions are spilling over from all the shock and trauma from my past life. 25 years with him. FOO issues like everyone. I’m a mental health professional and I know that I need support and had a great IC who just relocated so I prob need another one although CL and CN seems just as effective some days. I am just caught off guard today with the immensity of turning this house into mine and kids….transfering bills, mortgages, hoping he will pay what he owes….I had three lawyers, two accountants, a CPA etc….so it was a pure NARC fest getting out and from reading here, I can surmise that the ride is far from over.

        • With kids in the mix, no….and I am sure you know text is email is the way to go-MyFamilyWizard can make SOME narcs accountable.

          But know this-the narc is the REAL guy, and his attitude and behavior toward you will not change. He likely hates you for catching him. Negative attention is still attention. They DO eventually give up. Spill your vitriol here-safe outlet!

          My method to deal with Mr Fab is to ONLY deal with kid issues (DD is 15): online banking for finance, email itineraries for travel/the rest. So if you need to exchange receipts, documents, etc, then get a scanner (ipads work just as well) and let all that stuff speak for itself. I cc a junk email account so it is all in one place.

          As to him paying what he owes? Put the hopium pipe down. He MIGHT if it supports his image, but by and large, and scary as it is, doing it all alone is better. One if the hardest things is having to model integrity and authenticity for your kids, while recovering from fighting a war you didn’t know was declared.

          hang in there! It gets better. Time is an important ingredient.

          x-Meh

        • It is an immense task to get it all turned over to yourself, but once it’s done, it’s actually pretty cool to be in control of it all. It’s a mess getting it done, but then it goes smoothly after that.

          6 or 7 months after the Coward moved out to be with the FB Twat Troll, I was forced to go through family pics so that I could make a Senior ad for middle child’s yearbook. It was SO painful! The first time you do these things, it’s painful. Now I can go through family pics like, “Meh. He’s a freak. We did have some good times. They’re in the past.”

          Good job today! You’re making progress. And using plastic bags!! Well done!! 🙂

          • ^^^THIS^^^
            For some reason, maybe because we were a blended family from the beginning, I always ordered duplicate copies of pictures we took on family outings, vacations, etc.
            I asked STBXH to sit down and sort through and divide them with me, in the hopium that he wouldn’t be able to deny that we had some good times. I was dancing up a storm.
            He helped sort them, enjoyed some reminiscences. When we were done he offered me a handshake since we had worked together so well that day.
            Reminded me of a long ago commercial, a handshake instead of a kiss, and I asked for a hug instead.
            In utter and complete disdain, he recoiled, “do you really think that would be appropriate?” and I just stood there for a second, disbelieving.
            To hug me would have been disloyal/betrayal to OW. I screamed, “You forget that I’m still your wife!” He retored, “Thanks for that reminder!” and I stormed out with my half of the pictures.
            This was just one of many incidents of trying to sort through and divide our stuff that helped me overcome the denial fog and trust that he truly sucks. I think it would’ve been easier just to bag up his stuff and leave it in the garage for him to pick up (as suggested in an earlier comment).
            20 months out from separation, still not divorced. I filed on adultery grounds (have plenty of incontrovertible proof). He denied the [continuing] affair, and counter-filed accusing me of deserting him with neither cause nor permission. Un-freakin-believable! What an a$$hat he really is!
            Me? I’m getting closer to meh every day. And soon it will be the best Tuesday ever.

            • MarriedaJA—-wow, 20 months. I barely crawled through 13. My hat is off to you! Mines a denier also….I have been good about NC even through the divving up of property. You were smart to do 2 sets of photos. In the court documents that flew back and forth I could not believe the lies from my ex, he threatened to sue me for slander etc..I remember throwing up violently every time I got new documents. My lawyer finally told me not to worry that it’s just “bullshit” and it will all come out in the end. Narc posturing….It sounds like you are further on the trek to Meh than I…keep going! I’m amazed by everyone’s story’s and our ability to live through such soul baring pain!

            • I remember one evening at home after the bomb had ripped through my family, and suddenly a dark cloud roiled within my–at the time–husband. Dammit–he was my HUSBAND. We’d had sex on the floor in the laundry room–me dancing furiously, and he enjoying cake, playing the role of confused/torn lover. Hours later, he was FURIOUS with me, seemingly suddenly. You see, I’d tempted him into betraying his soul mate. He accused me of making him cheat on the Twat Troll. I was so terribly confused and hurt. He was cheating on her?

              Meh.

              • During the pick me dance phase when I was trying so hard, we had sex on the pool table and then he just walked away and went to bed. It was so surreal. putting it together I now realize it was the phase in the affair when any and all sex was good for him, the power was so exhilarating for him! They are truly jerks, all of them. Next man,if there ever is one, will be chosen with different parameters!

      • Who on this site makes the sparking dog turds…I remember reading about them and laughing. I see the sense in having one!

        • That was me. Brown Fimo clay molded into a turd, then covered with gold sparkle glue. I had that sparkly turd in my bedroom for a year or more, and then eventually no longer needed it and threw it away. I highly recommend it to anyone fresh past Dday, however. It’s a great reminder of what you are REALLY losing.

      • Mystique—Holy cow! that’s all kind of fucked up! I’ve been in charge of funerals for X’s family and mine. My IC worked with me to define my boundaries and taking care of my MIL, which as my IC exclaimed “He’s how old? He can make big boy decisions”. I would say the same in your case, pack up the ashes with his stuff. Notify him through his lawyer that if he doesn’t come for his stuff and the “family ashes” that you will be disposing of them on 00/00/000….I hear that they make great fertilizer for plants…..Wow, just Wow!

    • Out West, sorry I don’t have any tips – just wanted to let you know I share your experience. I filed a month after D-day, and put all my focus on getting through the day for my kid’s sake until he moved out. I WAS MIGHTY! Once he was out, I felt far less mighty, lots of sadness and self doubt. I kept telling myself to “trust that he sucks”…but I just didn’t want to deal with the next steps in the divorce process. Didn’t want him back, either…just felt exhausted and stuck. Just this week, I got some additional proof of exactly how much he sucks, and that is helping me to get unstuck.

      Be kind to yourself! You are ALREADY moving forward as a single strong kick-ass woman, even if you don’t quite feel it yet.

    • In general this works for me, when I’m overwhelmed, and it was recommended by a wiser chump: do one thing.

      You have a list of things to do. Just do one of them. Then you can be done. Just move the things out of the closet and maybe onto a couch. Then be done. You don’t have to wash and iron them and fold them neatly, wrapped with a bow. Just move them.

      Guess what? You do that one thing, and it’ll motivate you to do one more thing. It really works. But you must promise yourself that you’ll not punish yourself for doing only one thing.

      Another thing that helped me was to have one beer. No joke. I’m not much of a drinker, so one beer always puts my head in another place. It can make everything more fun. I would have one beer when the kids went on their twice-monthly 90-minute visit to their father’s love nest. Sometimes I’d call a chumped friend, desperate for consolation, pacing like a caged bear whose cubs had been removed. The beer and the friend always got me through. Frequently I would use that time to box up more of ex’s crap that I’d found. Before I went NC, I’d text him to inform him that he had another box on the porch to pick up when he returned the kids. (He’d whine, “Why do you always do that?” As if I was manipulating him. No, it was more like hating him, and using that energy to purge his crap from my life. It felt awesome.) You can do that, too, but, as I’ve learned from this forum, make sure you use cheap black plastic bags (the thinner the better) to bag his crap–don’t box it. Don’t treat it lovingly, either. The goal is to get it out, not to preserve it. He’s a fucker–remember that. Just move it out.

      Ok? Do one thing. Just one thing. Maybe with a beer. Just one.

      • One thing is good. Miss Sunshine. I will go do one more. Funny you mention beer, I feel like having a glass of champagne but it’s a tad early….It is so reassuring that you all have done it. I’m totally screwed if he doesn’t pay what he owes. I did get the investment accounts moved into my name this week, it was like pulling saber tooth tiger teeth. Already he’s asking for “bills” so he can “see account numbers” I said, just call the damn companies they are in your name.

        Chumptastic–I think we may be on a similar timeframe….DDay was last year, April/May and divorce will be on record with the state end of June. Settlement went into effect last week. And I feel completely unmoored! my head has been so full of ideas that I want to do, what I want my life to look like, pie in the sky freedom stuff….and I woke up this morning feeling like I had lead waders on! UGH.

        Miss Sunshine I am using your line “The goal is to get it out, not to preserve it. He’s a fucker–remember that. Just move it out” as my marching mantra today….and I keep coming back to the site….it’s so good to know others understand this shit fest that became my life!

    • It helped me to get some new bedding. I had been in spare bedroom and the day my ex moved out, my neighbor came over with a pile of new bed clothes, went into the master while I was making dinner and made the bed fresh and girly. That first night, I got into bed on my usual side. Felt wrong. Got up and got in the other side. Transition complete. The bed was mine. Small things can make a big difference

      • That’s a great idea NoMoreNarcs! I may have to move sides. The night he agreed to ‘move out of the master” after hours of mediation, he came in at midnight and ripped the covers off me while I was sleeping….what a crap thing to do. I haven’t broken out the new bedding yet because I don’t want him to see it….

        • It’s a ritual for sure–new bedding. I was pleasantly surprised that what I had done–new bed, new bedding–was a compulsion, and seemingly a rite of passage for chumps. You might be surprised at how great it makes you feel. My whole house doesn’t even feel like he’s missing–it’s just alllllllllll mine now, and I cannot imagine letting him back in here with all his shit. NFW.

          You’re doing great! OutWest (I was going to abbreviate you to “OW.” EEEH!)

          Save the new bedding for when you get the locks changed. Celebrate with new sheets! Maybe splurge on some new pillows from Ross or Costco, or something.

    • He wants his shit? Its on the front porch.
      Basically – if you allow him access to the house, whos to say that he won’t take some of your shit when you’re not around? Also snooping around for ‘evidence’?
      Whole bucket of nopes there. He moves out – he gets no right to come back in. From now on.

      • Lania–yeah, access is controlled and I don’t have any evidence in the house nor is there anything I’m super attached to, so I’m just waiting. His stuff takes up so much space that it would fill the entire garage and I’m not doing that much work for him! But I’m claiming enough space this weekend to try and breath….

    • On this point, I consider myself lucky- from the time he said he was “done” until the day he packed up every single bit of his shit and moved into his slut-shack, I had to put up with him for about 1 month…he kinda-sorta “moved” back in for about 10 days— before I packed up whatever he brought back in and threw him out…

      Him moving out that day wasn’t as paralyzing as I thought— what has froze me up at times these last few weeks is the knowledge that I am here alone and he’s out trolling and ignoring me…but after a little prayer, a little positive music, and I’m back to OK/Meh!!!!

      It does/will get better— cry when you need to, remember to eat, and do whatever you have to do to process through your emotions EXCEPT for contacting him!!!!

      You are mighty. You will get through this!!!

  • Considering that I stayed 3 years after dday with the crapweasel, there was a lot of money spent on the snake oil salesman. The only positive thing that I can say about that is the money came from our joint account so I didn’t pay for it alone.

    It’s a great analogy and it’s true. It’s amazing the amount of resources a human will waste to stay in denial and try to fix things that can’t be fixed by one person.

    I was a little slow on the uptake but I’m free now thank heavens!

      • Eileen, you owe it to yourself not to waste any more of your life on someone incapable of caring for you. Someone incapable of love. Someone who is wasting your time. Life is short and you deserve to be valued and loved for the unique, beautiful individual you are. So take that scary baby step forward. You won’t regret it. There’s a whole new better world out there. I know this! (((Hugs)))

    • Omg! I feel funny reading this! I went to a psychic today. Never in my life have I done such a thing! The psychic told me to move on and then I’d be happy

  • A sunk cost is money that has already been spent and cannot be recovered. Logic dictates that because sunk costs will not change — no matter what actions are taken — they should not play a role in decision-making. Emotionally, however, the more someone invests time, effort and money on something, the harder it becomes to leave it and move on.
    I saw this definition and thought ‘ aint that the fucking truth’ This aint about money for me. Not the house. Not about the checking account. My currency was the labor of love it took to make a house a home and people a family. Cause after the tidal wave… tornado… Whatever u want to call what the cheater did to demolish your life. When the water recceeds, the dust settles and the sick reality that your life got ripped from its foundation…u arent picking thru the rubble for things of monetary value. U are trying to find the kindergarten collage and the family picture of that perfect day on the beach.
    The Cheaters on the other hand are looking at another piece of property… Figuring how to cut the losses…. To them its just replaceable.

    • So true. My dad died this week and all one of my narc brothers can do is sweep in to grab stuff. When he demanded to know “what I wanted”, I told him not a damn thing. I have everything I want-my memories with my dad. Brother never was around, so I guess stuff will be his substitute. Strange to me now some people think things will fill their emptiness.

      • Very sorry for your loss Violet. You are so right, things are things are things. Your Dad was a ‘one-off’ – irreplaceable. If you are sure there is nothing you would like to have as a keepsake then I think you are right to ‘throw your hands up’ at it. But think carefully. There is no point in expecting or hoping a narc will ‘do the right thing’ and deliver unto you something you would have liked to have around you as a memento of your dear dad.

        It’s a hard and utterly surreal experience having to contemplate the minutiae compared with the enormity of the reality – the loss of an irreplaceable beloved person – but you might regret the loss of some small symbol that would represent dad for you, there might have been something dad wanted you to have, or always considered would be yours. Don’t let your grief and distaste at your brother’s attitude have you losing something you might come to treasure – for what it represents.

        Hugs and commiserations

        Jayne x

      • Violet–I’m so sorry to hear about your loss. The stuff that your brother is taking is what my ex is doing too. Seems to be a trend with them. Hold yourself tight. Love to you!

      • Oh Violet I am so sorry to hear about your Dad. I just wanted to share a story about what a friend did when her father died. He always wore checked shirts so she saved them and made teddy bears out of them for all the grandchildren. Sometimes just little things can make wonderful mementos.

        • Thank you. I have this picture if my dad at the beach. He always loved the ocean. Whenever I look at it, I smile and cry at the same time. As for the other stuff, it’s not worth it to me to get into a big fight about things. My dad was so much more than that and I want to honor his memory. I do like the idea of picking out something of sentimental value, maybe one of his favorite books. Brother already confiscated the expensive watch, which I could care less about. What a jerk…

    • TheClip, so true about sunk costs. For me too it was twenty eight years together. Three beautiful kids. The good times, and challenging times too. But what I valued, he eventually did not. He did not value family, he did not value time together, he did not value me. Hard to fix that but, in the end, his OW did me a favor. His affair finally woke me up. My life is better now. No more lies. That alone is far healthier…and I am finally free to focus on things that bring me joy. Time with my kids, doing stuff we love. No more settling. 🙂

  • Ha! I did the mental math last week. About $100 in self help books, think the fucking 7 love languages, and about $1200 in couples counseling. Then I really woke up, especially after I BEGGED the marriage counselor to tell me what the fuck I was dealing with. The MC and asshat’s IC were in the same practice and I had the asshat sign a confidentiality waiver

    • Yes, CL and nation already had been smacking me upside the head directly and indirectly, but I could not believe the crazy I married. It took a bit to really sink in. It definitely was a waste of money to the MC. I know me, and I needed to REALLY know what the fuck I married and that I had done everything I could.

      My slate is now clean. And the ball is rolling fast downhill. Yea.

  • As a chump who reads tarot I have to tell you that the question I have been asked more than any other is about the chances of reconcliation after a breakup – I do not read for money and have no desire to peddle false hope and, when my dear friend of many years got chumped, I helped her to find a lawyer as my cards indicated that he was done with the marriage and that she would soon meet and marry a younger man after being divorced. I was right.
    I have seen on many breakup and reconciliation sites that posts appear praising the intervention of so called psychics and witch doctors – the story is usually about how a spouse or lover returned after a spell was cast – a link to the miracle worker is always included.
    Yes, it is nonsense but desparate people do desparate things and there are those who wish to exploit that desparation.
    As for me, I am now taking my own advice. No, you cannot get back a person who wants to go as we all have freewill.
    It is interesting and completely true that a psychic read for me many years ago and, with a sad shake of the head, advised me not to trust a blonde woman called Christine. I had a friend at that time with that name and fair hair and thought it must be her. Not so.
    A few years later, after relocating and my husband changing jobs, I had forgotten the words of the gypsy. The older blonde colleague called Chris seemed nice, they were friendly, she even babysat! She was not the sort of woman I saw as remotely threatening – till the horror of DDay 1 when I discovered a year long affair.
    Another gypsy once told me that my husband was very deceiptful with other women and told many lies – I was angry and indignant at the time but she turned out absolutely right.
    Has anybody else had a reading that came true or otherwise?

    • Yep mary, early on in our marriage when I was very confused about his behavior and nothing made sense to me the way he was in our relationship, I had cards read by a psychic. She told me the cards show him with another woman on his side and a heavy affair going on. Bullshit I thought when I walked out, I took it playful and lightly and it took me another 14 years to get the picture of his narc ass personality and ongoing affairs. I look back often to that day I was sitting on her red couch getting told he is a cheater but back than starting a family and a live together, that was the very last thing I wanted to believe.

    • My sister was told by a psychic that she’d have a child within 2 years, and that her partner was abusive. Both of which were correct in the end. (Before anyone asks, she is fine. She has the same warrior spirit that my mum (and later myself) have).
      There are people out there with psychic gifts – but the snake oil salesmen will either 1. charge stupid amounts of money for their service, or 2. will give unrealistic outcomes. Or both. I remember this man that my sister spoke with – he gave my sister free advice, telling her ‘You need to know this, so its for free’.

    • About eight months after DDay a friend convinced me to go see a tea leaf reader. I am a skeptic but went along. I tried to show no facial expression and resisted her questions that seemed to be looking for clues. The reading was uneventful till she was almost done and then she said she saw the letter J in the bottom of the cup. She said she had no idea what that meant but something with the letter J was going to come back into my life in a way that was going to be significant. OW’s name starts with J and I don’t have any friends or family whose names start with J. A few days later I suddenly had an idea to check real estate listings for the city where OW lived then and where my Ex spent half of every week. OW’s house had just gone on the market. There were photos inside and out and in one of her kitchen, Ex’s reflection showed in the chrome toaster! And on a shelf there sat a framed baby picture of him that I used to keep next to one of me in a matching frame. OW’s baby picture was next to it. And she bought a house here a few months later and now he lives there with her in a cushy suburb that he never could afford on his own. It’s not very Meh but I wish that she had moved to another state far away and taken him with her. But I truly believe there was something to that tea leaf reading.

    • VERY early into our relationship, a friend did a tarot reading for me— he was in the room, but not paying attention…the friend turned a card over at one point, looked at it, then looked over at him and said, “He pisses you off, doesn’t he?” he went on to say some other things, but I always heard that in my head over the years…weird how it was true all along, just never really did anything about it— until now. 🙂

  • This is an uplifting story for chumps, (I think) we can categorically say that we never spent over $700,000.00 on a psychic in pursuit of tru luv! Yay us!

    • And the true love in this tale was a drug addict, to boot. Such discernment these cheaters possess. Very typical.

      Similarly, the Coward has an alcoholic lady. And they have More In Common with each other, too. Well done, sir! Well done.

  • I guess I’m a cold-hearted SOB….as far as I’m concerned the guy in this story, while out of 700 large, had his problem solved for him. His unrequited love died at her own hand. Now go on and live your life buddy. She’s gone, not coming back. I recently met a woman, and in the course of getting to know each other, she started telling me about her brother. She kept talking about him in the past tense, so I asked her if something had happened to him?….She told me that he was having an affair, and during an insuing argument with his wife after the discovery, he dropped dead of an aneurysm in the middle of the argument. I had to restrain myself from becoming giddy like a child. This woman was sobbing over her brother, and my only thoughts were “yes!!!!! there IS a God!….Karma Express comin’ through!” I felt bad that I didn’t feel bad, if that makes sense….I should add that as we got better acquainted, she “slipped” and disclosed that her “sons father”, is actually her husband who is stuck in another country after she married him to get him into the US and it backfired. Guess the apples don’t fall far from the apples.

  • I’m another one who wasted thousands on MC–any new chumps who might be reading, please take heed the advice here and skip MC and go straight to an attorney. Your money will be much better spent and you will save yourself the grief, frustration, and utter futility of undergoing MC or mediation with a narcissist. I did both and in the first instance STBX convinced the counselor that my trust issues were a FOO matter not a “I hide shit and lie about where I’ve been” matter, which of course he flat-out lied to her about. In the second instance I knew by then to find a mediator with expertise in working with narcissistic spouses on custody issues. Progress I suppose, but the reality is I was still withdrawing from hopium and thought maybe with the right person we could work out a placement schedule for our only child left at home before filing. Wrong. Even though she knew how to keep him in the dialogue and reign him in when he tried to make me the problem, nearly $1000 and endless hours of him talking in circles got us exactly nowhere. So now I’ve filed and will let my attorney handle it.

  • Yes, I paid at least several thousand dollars for books, CDs and counseling sessions with “save your marriage” charlatans. I was determined that I could control/fix this and thought that the few thousand dollars would be money well spent to save any money that would be lost to legal fees in a divorce.

  • Well, I’m glad my dollar investment in bogus reconciliation was relatively low. $125 for Retrouvaille weekend and probably around $150 for various book off Amazon. My divorce, however, was expensive.

  • Sadly, this exact thing almost happened to me but for only 500.00 and on my AX, but was smart enough to get up and walk out paying the 10.00 fee that was outside advertised.

    I was so traumatized by my husband affair that brought down my marriage of almost 30 years that I would’ve listen to anybody.

    Cheaters have no idea what they do to their spouse or partner when they cheat. It make the most sane person become the most insane, the most calm become the most uncalm, the most rational the most unrational, the most happiest the most unhappiest. It destroys our world and will look anywhere to try to make sense of what happened.

    • The biggest expense expense was the divorce and at 300 an hour it was worth every penny. I walked away with everything that was important to me including my pension. I also have to pick up the tab for cheaters health insurance (a set amount) until I switch jobs or remarry. Poor baby will have to finally be a man and get the consequences he deserves. Looking forward to this.

  • I spent about $100 on Amazon and a subscription to a RIC website, which I actually do not regret. I made a friend there and learned a few things. I spent a lot of money on clothes, because on the divorce diet, everything fit! And I wanted to look good, so that when he saw me, he’d regret leaving. And, while that didn’t work, it DID serve two other purposes: it gave me self-confidence, and I think it contributed to the general wonderment of others, who frequently wondered out loud WTF he was thinking leaving me. Mind you, these were not expensive clothes for the most part, just new–and lots of dresses.

    But, of course, you can’t make anyone love you, unless you count yourself as someone.

    • I surely agree w the D and infidelity diet! Maybe one of the bright spots! True others wonder too now, “how could hubby cheat, wifie looks hot!”

      Like the experts say, “living well is the best revenge.”

      • He got to a chumped friend before I did. She asked how he was, and how I was, and he explained, “Yeah, we’re splitting up. It just didn’t work out.” I wondered from the other side of the water polo pool who he was talking to. I was in a cute dress, thin, and high on adrenaline–the sort you get when cheater coward shows up at one of your kids’ sporting events, on top of the chronic jitters that come from witnessing the implosion of your family. Oh, God–there he was, chatting up a hottie over there. I pretended not to care.

        Several minutes later, I realized who she was–mom of four, chumped by her serially-cheating ex. I made my way over to her when ex-hole had left. She expressed shock. She said that she’d recommended to him that he try whatever he had to do to work it out with his wife. She said he shrieked at her in reaction, “I’ll NEVER go back to her! It’ll NEVER work out!” She said she was really taken aback, and by the looks of me, it was clear that I’d cheated on him, and that he was very hurt by it.

        I set her straight, and quick. And then it all made sense to her. She’d been through it herself. Her counsel has been a god-send to me. She’s one of those I’d call when the kids left to go to his house for a few hours. There are very few people who REALLY know the flavor of shit sandwiches when a cheater gets to take your kids away from you, for however short a time.

        • I have a couple good friends like that and it’s so worth it at sporting events for kids to be surrounded by people. I also think that when I have revealed to people what really happened, it’s those who have lived through it who quickly let me know that they are ‘down with me’. I hope to be that person for someone in the future….truly an awful process….

          • Sadly, you will be that person for someone else one day.

            And the way you’re conducting yourself–seemingly fearlessly, with determination and energy–will inspire another person who is or would have been afraid to do what needs to be done.

            I know and you know that none of us here is truly fearless, but we do it with panache anyway! 🙂

  • I went to a seminar on long term stress. Cults, false reconciliations, etc put enormous strain on the body. Those of you in the medical professions know about the surge of adrenaline and other hormones because of the fight or flight response. The hormones do the job if you are running away from physical danger but what happens if the danger is in your home? You are constantly secreting these hormones. They are very toxic over time. After a while the body begins to break down because it has now decided to stay hyped up all the time. I don’t believe in long term mc. If it involves long term cheating the spouse’s body/mind is never going calm down. There is a firestorm in the body 24/7. The only mc I think has a chance is if there is true humility and remorse and the affair was over fairly quickly.

  • Hope is just fear in a cute outfit.

    I came to realize after a couple of years of trying desperately to save my marriage on my own that HOPE can sometimes be a mental disorder. Worse, it’s a mental disorder that is actively encouraged by others. When I finally let go of hope for my marriage (Years of cheating, lies, drug abuse, no sex life, nothing to save) I felt a profound sense of relief.

    One thing that I realized when I finally came to my senses: there are a LOT of people, many well-intentioned, who will encourage you to hold onto hope despite everything. A couple of friends who knew everything that I had gone through still said things like “It’s not hopeless” and “There’s always hope.”

    No there isn’t. Put your hope away. If your friend tells you he has incurable cancer and 6 months to live, do not tell him that he mustn’t give up hope. Respect where he is right now and allow him to face his reality as he sees fit.

    This isn’t a Disney movie. The truth is that giving up hope for my marriage was a triumph over hope. I finally allowed myself to face my fears and move forward.

      • There IS always hope – just not for the particular outcome that we may want. No, we cannot force another person to be as we want them to be no matter how many books we buy, MCs we consult, spells we cast, pounds we lose, affirmations we chant or any other means of controlling the outcome of freewill that is not our own.
        We can change ourselves though – we can make decisions – we can walk a different path.

    • I completely agree. One of the best things I learned was to consider “abandon hope” to be a prayer.

    • Hope is fear in a cute outfit!!! That was soooooo wonderful. You have a way with words. I had hope for 4 months, and all it did was kill me, but I did it… If I had any advice for any future chumps it would be that hope hurts. It’s a waist of time when it comes to infidelity. All it does is hold you hostage. Never again I say – never again.

  • Yup, spent thousands of $ on RIC and hours and hours on the internet. Hours of utter panic and anxiety wondering what sort of rage and shit he would do next. Trying to figure out what I would do, every time he threatened to leave as a SAHM. Really I thought if I could make his world happy, he would be happy, so I did the pick me La Cucaracha for 32 years.

    I remember when I found the Cluster B sites and thought, well he is a lot narcissistic and a lot antisocial and a bit of borderline and of course asbergers. In my naivete I thought well nothing really fits him, keep on searching. Who knew, what we had was ‘Winner! Winner! Chicken Dinner! He is all of that an more… Really smart, very well masked but nada adentro. But I will give our final MC credit, she said, he is never going to change and you didn’t cause this.This is who he is. I needed to hear that and with that I.WAS.OUTTA.THERE.

    Now he has CFMily smoking the hopium, thinking that when he is in eNVy, he is going to be ‘happy’.

  • The thought that comes to mind is the $3,500 mountain bike I surprised him with. He really, really wanted it & I still liked to try to please the man. I guess I figured that he would buy it for himself & I wanted in on his satisfaction… so I went to the shop and bought the bike.
    Foolish.
    He never planned to reciprocate & it just fed his entitlement. My psychic powers, however, did grow & now I am very quick to read the writing on the wall. He will fall into the pit that he dug for me… him & his whole posse of self-righteous enablers… the piper must be paid.

  • Loving who you thought he was is like loving a mirage in the desert. You may want that beautiful, lush watering hole more than anything in the world, but the fact is that it doesn’t actually exist.

  • Spending 9 months of my time treading on eggshells trying not to piss him off or make him stonewall me again – and a lot of hopium researching sites which were RIC ones. When I found CL – everything made sense that it was never my fault – and that very day I went no contact. And still are, 10 months later. Fortunately, he was the type who kinda didn’t care, so I only received 1 email post-non-contact (which I duly ignored). I suspect he was cheating on me, given the sheer lack of disrespect shown to me, and the fact he was unavailable at times, but I really don’t care – the disrespect is dealbreaker enough.
    In my personal situation its a bit different, having never been married – and this was a long term boyfriend who fortunately never got to the stage where we were living with each other. I have been cheated on in the past (before this guy) – I immediately culled them when I found out.

    • The walking on eggshells–that’s a sign that I wish I’d read earlier in my relationship with my ex. You did well by cutting this guy out when you did. Sounds like your picker is pretty good, Miss!

      • Haha. I like to think so – but to be honest, there’s always gonna be times where theres self doubt.
        Sometimes I feel like my picker is too over the top – because in every relationship I’ve had since I came here (coworkers, family, etc) I’m quite ‘militant’ (for lack of a better word) about people doing things – even niggly which are still kinda ‘normal’ to do. I ask myself ‘Is this something which is normal or something that is disrespectful to me?’
        I would say that I’m a hell of a lot more assertive these days – because tbh – almost exactly the same time as the above event – I landed myself a new job (The timing of said new job is eerily karma, to be frank!) and resigned from my first job (which was full of toxic fuckwittery and narcissists trying to outdo each other – which I wanted nothing to do with) – and on my way out, I tried to not show any cards. I’ve landed two raises at this new job being the exact same person (on the flipside, I routinely got criticised at my old job for the same time) – so it tells me that the old job were absolute crap.

  • My price tag? Twenty years and the joy-filled hearts of our children. My health. My optimism. My hope of spending the rest of my life with a mate that loved me.

    Seems to me the guy who paid $700 got off cheap.

  • I hate people who sell hope in a hopeless situation. You have nothing to work with in a cheater. Not.one.darn.thing. We spent thousands of dollars on counseling (I don’t have enough fingers to count the number of counselors we saw through over 20 years of hell), both marital and IC. I did have two IC counselors that were excellent. One told me to divorce the cheater after his second affair, and I filed for divorce and then took him back. Duh. The last counselor told me to focus on myself, not the cheater, and that’s when I came home to myself. I am so glad I went for IC three years before the third OW (that I know of, that is). I knew I could no longer live the way I was living. The truth finally caught up with me. When the final OW rolled around, I defaulted to what I knew all those years – the only way to heal and have an authentic life with an open and free heart is to get rid of the cheater.

    I, too, am in the Amazon Hall of Fame. I believe what the RIC offered because I so wanted to believe the BS they were selling. Looking back, my biggest obstacle was that I kept my focus on the cheater – what will make him happy, what will make the marriage perfect so he has no reason to ever be unhappy, what can I do so he will always want to be with me. Good grief, I got sucked into the belief that I could control 100% of the outcome of a situation where I only had 50% control (myself). The math simply does not work out. The only way to ensure that your past is not your future is to divorce a cheater. And when I reached meh, I wished I had gotten rid of the cheater eons ago.

  • Uniquelyme

    It took me way too long to understand X was a narcissist. I was always a leader and followed his path of destruction. My life was forever off balance. Now I know the disordered build little sparks oh hope into the relationship to keep supply. Just when I thought I could take no more before DDay X left messages saying he loved me. It was a life of never ending misery. After torturing myself for years I am happy to use the words, final OW as pathetic as this made me feel after tolerating so many. After divorcing the serial cheater and surviving the pain I have rebuilt my life with real hope. It’s been a year and I faced every fear and became stronger. I still work on not giving X my power as he cannot face the fact that I have changed my behavior. It’s difficult for the narcissist when chumps no longer focus on their needs regardless of being divorced. When the infatuation wears off and they wake up alone with no friends or family they truly fall apart. At this point I have to continuously remind myself X is a soul sucking parasite and my goal is MEH. I am happy to know there is such a place. I’m getting closer.

    • You will get there, Donna. I, too, stayed for as long as I did because of the crumbs thrown my way. I was so enmeshed in the dysfunctional life of a narcissist that I no longer knew what healthy love looked like. Never in my wildest dreams did I think I could be where I am today – very content, at peace, open to what life brings, and fearless. I feel that I finally gave myself permission to be authentic because I no longer was living a lie. The ex married a trophy OWife with a rich father, and of course, the ex is the third husband. I can clearly see she is of use to him. He married her after he attempted a reconciliation months after the divorce, and telling me it was all a mistake. A few months later, he married the “mistake”. I do not hate her, nor envy her. She is just another character in the ex’s long-running play, “I, Me and My Shadow”. How their life turns out is none of my business. The most important thing for me is that I will never, ever be again someone’s collateral damage. .

  • It’s true, the OW is in fact a character in his long-running play. I will focus on myself with many more ups than downs as I continue to detox. Thanks.

    • It is true. The AP/OW/OM is never “better” and will never have the perfect life with our disordered exes. Looking back my ex was all about his image and his money. He truly cared what others thought of him. The people who didn’t matter. Me, I never did. I know my worth and don’t need the masses to tell me this. Ex can’t keep the charade up for long though as with every passing year his doubts about his worth and about his choices grow. That old fool is so scared of dying; he should be paying attention to living and the legacy he will be leaving behind. Chumps, we have so many gifts to share (can’t be done with a Narc), so do move forward. Life is so much better when you are free to be yourself-wholly, authentically-and nobody is telling you you aren’t good enough (project much, ex?).

      • Sometimes I get down on being single, and resign myself to the idea that the Twat Troll really IS a better match for the Coward, and that they really might be content together–you know? And good for them.

        But then I remind myself that it takes a certain kind of freak to walk out on his family, to have been so selfish all those years leading up to it, to have been socially awkward and perpetually irritated and tortured. And his match is the certain sort of woman who brazenly poaches a family man–his wife and kids be damned. She wants what she wants. She worked for it, and now she’s got it. She smiled as my kids’ hearts were breaking. Eh–maybe they really are a match.

        I think about writing that Thank You card–except they deserve no such civility.

        And then I think–that ain’t any sort of happy. That’s desperation. I don’t miss him. I do miss what I thought I had. I miss the future I thought we were going to share together. But I realize that without him I am much freer. I am settled. No doubt he remains tortured. Sucks to suck, you know?

        • Miss Sunshine, you quoted “I don’t miss him. I do miss what I thought I had. I miss the future I thought we were going to share together. But I realize that without him I am much freer. I am settled”. They are my own words exactly. In fact, the other day my sister said to me “you dodge a bullet”. She was always more supportive of my ex husband than me but she has listened, watched, learned and now realise who was the dud and it isn’t me. I am also happy to say that she is now very supportive of me and understands the hurt and betrayal I have been through as she is watching her own 40 year old son struggle badly with the end of his marriage. She now gets it.

          • Maree, I am glad she is being supportive now (though I am not glad for her son’s situation, of course) and that she finally realizes that the problem was your ex.

        • Miss Sunshine;
          My therapist told me that I could NEVER go back with the X as he became more deliberate and sadistic each time he cheated. The future we would have shared together would have robbed me if my soul. The first step I took to take it back was to file. We are fortunate to be free.

  • I googled this NYT article and the guy did give up even after learning that she had died…no, the psychic had a way round that too. Her soul was going to transfer to another woman and their relationship would then continue. He went along with it for some time after her death. It sounds like he had a lot more money than sense if not serious mental health issues!
    I guess we all believe what we want to believe to some extent though.

  • Something I would never acknowledge to people around me: yes, I went to see two different psychics.
    The first one, an old woman, before D-Day, because I had workmates that were not very nice. After a few remarks about my job (the subject for which I had come), she said the relationship between my boyfriend and I had a lot of hypocrisy in it, that it had low value, and asked me why in the world I was living with this guy. At the time, I had no idea what she was trying to say, I expressed contentment about the relationship, and she gave up trying to tell me it was crap. It cost me the equivalent of 50 USD.
    The second one was a pretty blonde twentysomething with large blue eyes, and before I even gave details about the situation, she said our relationship exploded in 2014 (yup, D-Day), looked at her cards, and advised me to line up my ducks quickly and get rid of him, because he is never happy with what he has, feels entitled, and it will only get worse. 50 USD again. That’s fair.
    Nobody has to follow the suggestions of a psychic. However, I did start counting my money and contacting lawyers, and the process is on-going. At this very moment, he is travelling around with a single forty year-old Russian woman, taking care of all her needs, driving, translating, doing gentleman things he never ever did for me.He says it’s OK because he is not interested in her. How ridiculous.

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