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UBT: “The Most Common Mistakes Made By Betrayed Spouses in Recovering from an Affair”

bitterbunny_lowrezHey chumps! You’re Doing It All WRONG!

An alert chump sent me this appalling tripe from “Affair Resources and Advice” — a blog written by a former cheater, “Jack,” who reconciled.

Jack would like you to know that affairs are 100% wrong and there is no excuse for them. And then he devotes an entire blog to his excuses, and how you should never judge or be angry at that “100% wrong” thing. Hey, he said it was wrong.  (You drove him to it, but whatever.)

Frankly, the litany of chump “mistakes” is so long, I’m just hitting on the highlights. Enjoy.

The Most Common Mistakes Made By Betrayed Spouses in Recovering from an Affair

Believing that once your spouse agrees to end the affair or the behavior, it is truly ended. Quite often the betrayed spouse is somewhat naïve and actually believes that his or her mate is able to effectively flip and stop the behavior or talking to the affair partner. It is a lovely thought, but very unrealistic. Recovery may involve seeking out helping professionals as well as support groups. It takes time. Most people need help getting out of an affair. They are like addicts and it’s hard to kick an addiction by flipping a switch. Again, much depends on the type of affair they engaged in. If it was a one night stand, affair of “sexual opportunity”, then ending it is easy since it was just that. If it was a multi-year affair, few cheaters can instantly turn off all feelings. I have a blog entry on this subject.

I’m lying to you. That’s not a problem. Your naivety is the problem.

Cake is delicious. One does not effectively stop eating cake when one enjoys cake. Don’t you DARE take my fork from me!

Demanding that your spouse pledge 100% commitment to the marriage right at the moment of disclosure. Even if your mate is willing to make such a pledge it does not really mean anything. Your spouse may mean it in the moment, but not realize how big of a problem they actually have. Addicts cannot just stop using. People in emotionally entangled affairs have trouble disengaging.

Yeah, that 100% commitment I made on my wedding day? It didn’t mean anything either.

Not seeing forgiveness for what it is. Forgiveness is not a “free pass” or pretending it never happened, or saying what happened was ok. Instead, it’s an acknowledgment that you are going to let go of the anger associated with this. That at some level, you are choosing to put it aside and work on your marriage. I have a blog on the topic. I hear far too often Betrayed Spouses indicate that somehow if they forgive the affair, that their spouse “won” or “got away with it.” Far from it. This type of thinking is corrosive. I assure you, inside, they have paid a huge price and don’t feel like “winners.” Healing cannot occur until forgiveness is given. If you refuse to truly forgive, your marriage is doomed anyway.

I paid a huge price! Like, inside. You can’t see my bowels, but they’re irritable. I get gassy sometimes and I suffer shame and embarrassment from that. So enough with the judgment!

You don’t know what forgiveness is. It’s accepting my false equivalencies.

Not being in reconciliation mode, but instead, being in revenge and punishment mode continuously and/or bludgeoning your spouse with guilt, thinking that this will be helpful. Your spouse already knows that what they have been doing is wrong, even if they will not admit it to you. Pointing such things out over and over again, especially after months or even years have elapsed since recovery was agreed upon, will usually only serve to push them away. It’s time consuming and counterproductive for you to concern yourself with punishing your cheating husband or wife, seeking revenge, or trying to pay him/her back for having an affair.

The UBT would like to point out that bludgeoning you would be exceedingly helpful.

But back to the translation…

Trust that even though they won’t admit cheating was wrong, or say it was wrong, they know it. And that should be enough for you shrieking harridans.

Your interests would be best served if you focus your energy and efforts on what the two of you can do to get their derailed marriage back on track. You cannot seek reconciliation and justice simultaneously. You must choose. If you seek to punish, to “even the score”, to continuously remind them how they betrayed you, don’t bother pretending that you are trying to fix things. If you are going to forever throw the affair in his/her face, your marriage is over.Of course, especially initially, you will have rage and anger. This is normal and expected.

But at some point, if you forgive, you to put this aside. Nasty comments. Sarcasm. Sneaky tricks like spying on them or trying to hack their phone or accounts. Withholding love or sex. Verbal assaults on your Wayward Spouse might make you feel better, but if you truly want to save your marriage, there has to be a point where this ends. If tantrums go on endlessly and unpredictably, only a spouse with no options and no self-respect will stay. They will leave you anyway.

You can’t expect someone with any self-respect to endure a marriage with sarcasm. Affairs though? Carry on!

Accountability is a sneaky trick! Don’t look at my phone. Marriages are derailed by transparency.

I would be very careful of the words you use in your anger — they will be remembered and can become an obstacle. Remember, they too have grievances against you and probably the underpinnings of why they sought love and understanding outside of the marriage. Don’t add to the grievances, if at all possible.

I see this as the number one mistake Betrayeds make in marital recovery. I read it constantly on message boards and blogs. Year or more later, and still nit-picking. Still punishing. Still humiliating their spouse. Still having meltdowns, and wondering why their marriage still sucks. Go figure. It’s easier to punish than to forgive, but completely counterproductive. Don’t do it.

Anger is humiliating. Cheating? Not so much.

Believing that you, the faithful spouse, are “blameless” and the only one who has things to forgive. Even if you were a good spouse, no one is perfect. Your unfaithful mate probably has hurts and things for which he or she must forgive you. After dealing with the pain of the affair, it will be helpful to look at the marital relationship completely and be honest enough to understand that affairs rarely happen in a vacuum — they are almost always in reaction to vast, unmet needs in the marriage — or outright abuse or neglect.

Affairs are wrong and there is no excuse for them, except that they’re almost always in reaction to VAST UNMET NEEDS or outright ABUSE and NEGLECT!

Not saying you did those things, just saying you’re not “blameless.” Am I blaming you? No, you should be blaming yourself. The mindfuck works better that way.

Happy and content spouses rarely have affairs. Once you understand this you are in a better place to pursue marital reconciliation. I constantly read how many Betrayed Spouses have an impossible time accepting this very basic concept. A poor marriage is not an excuse for an affair — there is no excuse – but it is almost always the reason. So don’t try and pretend it’s not.

It’s not an excuse, it’s a reason.

You weren’t working hard enough to make me happy. Work on that.

Being a “helicopter spouse.” Believing that you can keep your mate safe and away from temptation by keeping them under total surveillance. As tempting as it may be to make sure your mate is always safe and monitored, it is impossible. You can try to be with your mate 24/7, but unless you work together, it is not near possible. Honestly, it is not even possible if you work together. One of you may have meetings or errands that the other one may not be a part of. But if you think that the only way to keep your spouse faithful is to have them on some sort of “Virtual Leash”, then your marriage is already over. You can’t hover over them like some perpetual helicopter. Secretly tapping into their computer or phone, or putting GPS trackers on their car, etc. These are REALLY bad ideas. I wouldn’t do it. It turns YOU into the dishonest person. That type of control is not only likely to not work, but it will breed resentment.

The problem isn’t what I did — have a two-year affair — the problem is your reaction to that — demanding transparency.

The UBT is coughing up a hairball at “It turns YOU into the dishonest person.” (Yes, snooping is so much worse than cheating and lying…) but it would like to agree with you that hyper vigilance is untenable. So is reconciliation.

Trying to convince your spouse that nobody will ever love him/her as much as you do. If your spouse is in an emotionally entangled affair, chances are good that he or she may already believe this is not true. It may even encourage an “I’ll show you I’m not such a loser” attitude. The reality is likely that their Affair Partner DID love them more than you did or showed and that’s why they were drawn to them — they felt more loved, desired, appreciated and understood by their Affair Partner than you. So making this argument to them to recovery may actually make them think in the opposite direction. Advice? Don’t argue it. SHOW them in your actions — your kindness, your love, your understanding, and how much you are willing to be honest and examine yourself as well during marital recovery.

Look, the OW is winning the pick me dance. If you have any hope of winning, you’ll let me eat cake. I love her more, because you suck, just own that.

Exposing the affair to your friends, family, neighbors, coworkers. Threatening to expose your mate’s affair to everyone will only increase their guilt and shame, and may enrage them. More people may know already than you might realize. Some of them perhaps have even offered your unfaithful spouse support or encouragement in the affair or behavior. It will not keep your mate home. I see this suggested constantly on some Betrayed Spouse message boards and blogs — expose the affair to every one. Frankly, this is more about retribution and shaming your Wayward Spouse, and is likely to backfire. If my wife had exposed me to everyone, I am quite sure I would’ve walked out the door instead of reconciling our marriage.

Don’t tell anyone I was 100% wrong! EVER. I feel it silently inside my bowels and that’s ENOUGH.

I wrote a blog entry about the mistake, and pitfalls, of focusing too much on the Other Man/Woman during recovery. This is a trap. It might make you feel better, but it gets you nowhere in recovery and it made breed resentment in your Wayward Spouse. Obviously, at some level, they thought enough of this person to share very personal things with them. You trashing them out is as good as saying your Wayward Spouse is an idiot. Is this the message you want to send? Seethe if you wish. hate them. Assume that you are so much better looking/sexy/smarter/worldly/better for your spouse than them. But do it quietly.

Love me, love my affair partner. It’s that simple. She’s an extension of me and I’m perfect.

Trying to “woo” your spouse back and expecting instant gratitude and immediate results. Wooing can be more effective with certain types of affairs, but in any case, it will not produce immediate results. For example, a man with a sexual addiction may be grateful for the efforts, but it will not solve the problem. Understand, that at some level, in the immediate aftermath of an affair, your Wayward Spouse, while agreeing to marital reconciliation, may still be somewhat on the fence about your marriage. They need to be convinced too that the marriage can be saved. It takes time. They are shell-shocked and probably not unlike an addict concerning their affair. They too have to grieve to some extent. Results will come for both of you, but you must show patience and perseverance.

The pick me dance is assumed. One isn’t grateful for the pick me dance, it is a given. Persevere at the pick me dance and perhaps, just perhaps, I will pick you.

(Maybe. I’m a timid, shell-shocked, forest creature.)

Engaging in a “Revenge Affair”. In this emotional time, you may feel a desire to show your unfaithful spouse how it feels to be so betrayed and that if you do, your spouse will ultimately come humbly back. This is one of the most foolish things you can do. It will backfire. Not only will you enrage your Wayward Spouse, but now you will have your own guilt and shame to deal with. And frankly what you did is worse — why? It’s unlikely your Wayward had their affair purposely to hurt you. But if you engage in a “revenge affair”, you did it for one reason and one reason only — to hurt your spouse. To me, it would be unforgivable. You might as well have your divorce papers drawn up. Two wrongs never make a right, and engaging in a wrong to hurt your spouse doesn’t show character or a desire to reconcile. It’s simple childish retribution. I also have a blog entry on the dangers of the revenge affair. I wrote more on the topic here.

See, cheaters only have affairs because of what’s lacking in the marriage and your abuse and neglect. Which isn’t about you at all! But a revenge affair? That’s a personal affront! All that shit I said about forgiveness and patience? It doesn’t pertain to you.

Affairs are what you do when another person hurts you so badly you have to fuck someone else. Revenge affairs are what you do when another person hurts you so badly you have to fuck someone else are WRONG.

Relying on advice from “Infidelity” Message Boards: They are almost always dominated by Betrayed Spouses, usually who have a huge chip on their shoulders. Former Cheaters are rarely welcome there, unless they are the complete self-loathing variety. Opinions that contradict the standard POV on these boards are RUTHLESSLY censored. So you end up with one, monolithic set of opinions — usually those of the militant, negative variety. One set of advice from a group of bitter, vicious Betrayed Spouses, most likely.

Unlike my blog, I don’t ruthlessly censor anyone. I just refuse to publish anyone that judges me.

Bitter, militant, vicious chumps scare me. They might liberate my wife.

In general, a spouse recovers from the pain more readily to the extent that s/he is able to see his/her own part in the marriage difficulties that may have made the relationship vulnerable. These mistakes may include not following up on early hints of potential infidelity. It’s paradoxical, but the more someone feels that they had a role in the development of the affair, the more empowered that person will feel to make changes that will strengthen the marriage in the future.

Don’t keep me on a virtual leash, but DO follow up at the earliest HINT of potential infidelity.

Recovery for the deceiver — the Wayward Spouse — needs to include a full assessment of how the affair happened. Understanding history enables one to prevent its reoccurence. This understanding however has to be observational rather than self-flagellating. Being excessively angry at oneself can block real learning. “Shame and blame” do little toward prevention. Understanding of the series of unfortunate actions and decisions that led to the affair is critically important. So is desire to put one’s life on a totally different course, a course of true marriage commitment.

Yes, direct that shame and blame at the chump. Blame for neglecting the marriage. Shame for not being as loving and sparkly as the affair partner.

Thanks Jack. You’ve done a public service giving us this look inside the brains of cheaters — the staggering entitlement, the flamboyant narcissism, the silly pomposity.

Militant, vicious, bitter chumpdom salutes you.

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  • Maybe I’m a moron, but isn’t an “excuse” a “reason?” Although usually a stupid, invalid one.

    Example: I can’t turn in my homework.

    Reason: The dog ate my homework (and he really did).

    Excuse: The dog ate my homework (not really, I’m actually lying).

    Jack sounds like a class A turd. Hope his wife dumps his sorry ass.

    • My STBX started cheating on me when we were engaged. I didn’t know about that. Why did he not leave me alone then. He continued after we were married. I found out when i walked in on him one evening after visiting inlaws, with his little whore in our house.
      We were just married a year and a half, and he had several one nite stands. He told me if only we had a child he would have never cheated on me . I know you guessed it, I had my beautiful son, and the sob cheated on me again.
      I started to do the pick me dance, and chumps let me tell you if i went to “so you think you can dance “, I would have won first price.
      Anyway, I never mentioned the affairs after dday or became a marrige police or told any one about what he did, and guess what he cheated again. But you bet i told everybody of all the cheating he did this time around, and I realy hurt his feelings, poor sausage.
      So mr Jack ass you theories are just a load of bs, that only cheaters like you believe and unicorns.

      • I think this guy is cheating still/again and is writing this TO HIS WIFE as part of the mind fuck. His drivel comes straight from the mouth of HELL.

        • I think you are right. Reading his crap made me so pissed, and it was so awesome to have CL point out his conflicting messages and BS. I have gotten so tired of feeling blamed, especially by people who advocate reconciliation. If you have to treat the cheater so carefully after s/he hurts YOU unbelievably, in order to keep him/her, why would you even want that person? Breed feelings of resentment, indeed.

          • The part about not denigrating the OW/OM made me so angry, especially when he said s/he may have actually loved/showed more love than you did. Only a completely unrepentant person could say that…the kind that is probably still cheating on you with him/her and thinks you should understand that the cheater’s other relationships are special…just not the relationship with you.

  • Dear Lord I think my STBX must have read this before Dday (a month ago), because I remember him spouting almost exactly this crap at me word for word to explain WHY he cheated AGAIN. I was “bludgeoning” him with the past! I remember being surprised at some of the words he used, because they were not part of his vocabulary, nor was it true. At all. Now it makes sense lol.

    • OMG me TOO!!!! Mine says I continually SHAME him. That he lied to me about visiting the whore’s apartment because I would “shame” him. LOL. It’s all my fault, I am such a PITA. I actually expected when he said he’s stop seeing her he WOULD DO IT. As Jack laments above, I shouldn’t have expected the poor sausage to be honest. GAG.

  • Trying to find out if someone is whoring around on you makes you a “dishonest person?” Pot, meet kettle, lol.

    • Of course by this logic anyone who does any “snooping around” is dishonest. Including all police everywhere, OSHA safety inspectors, child welfare advocates, United Nations chemical weapons inspectors, health inspectors from the Center for Disease Control, surveyors for the World Health Organization, Department of Health food inspectors, etc., etc., etc. What a bunch of dishonest people, “cheaters,” really.

      Classic (and flamboyant) false equivalency.

      Sunlight is the best disinfectant, and this dude wants chumps to live in the dark. I’ll say it: Jack is an Ass.

      • Lets not forgot this schmuck cheated on his wife for 2 YEARS! He gets all righteously indignant on infidelity boards about betrayed spouses finding out about their spouses affair by putting spyware on phones and keyloggers on computers to discover affairs and then to play the marriage police afterwards. I agree that being the marriage police isn’t healthy but this guy is not voluntarily transparent. He didn’t like it when his wife found out about his old blog because she was “spying”.

        His affair partner outed him so it wasn’t necessary for his wife to employ spy tactics to discover his affair but if you were to ask him how else a betrayed spouse is supposed to find out, the response is crickets.

        Dude is a complete tool. This isn’t Jack’s first blog. He wiped out the first one because people called him out for being the pompous windbag that he is.

        He also has a cult following of betrayed female spouses who hang on his every word. One in particular. It’s a vomit fest.

        • My cheater H’s name is Juan. I used to call him ‘Jack’. It was a private joke. Then it became JackAss. He hated it! How especially identifiable for me! The BS in JackAss’s blog is too much to swallow. I wanna vomit! This is the crap betrayed spouses have been hearing for years! It’s time for a revolution. Betrayed unite! Send the cheaters to hell where they all belong. Sorry for the rant but the BS twisted me into a frenzy oh yeah I’m not ‘allowed’ to be angry. It’s not healthy for the cheater. F**k the cheater! He’s not healthy for me!

          • Renee 62,

            t’s not healthy for the cheater if the chump is angry. But somehow in all this crap raining down on the cheated it’s okay for the cheater to lie to them, spend marital funds selfishly and oh yeah expose a trusting person to STD’s. Just remember chump you musn’t show anger at the person who humiliated you and treated you as less than human. Because if the chump shows any backbone the cheater has lost his or her control!

            Oh and the hideous allusion to not being able to turn off the emotions for the AP because it’s an addiction. You better not go down that road Jack, addicts can and do give up the bottle, the smack, whatever when faced with jail, loss of job or loss of children. Suck it up little cheater princesses and start actually treating your spouse as a partner and not some glorified help you contracted by putting a ring on their finger.

            Gad, this person is truly a jackass!!!!

            • YES! just another chump! You laid it out so well. We have to say: Hit the road Jack! along with all the others who spew this nonsense that poor chumps hear before they’re smart enough to look elsewhere & find Chump Nation.

      • I remember the night I confronted my ex with what I’d read in his journal. It was awful reading what he wrote, I was shaking and felt utterly horrible and sick for invading his privacy. But as awful as it was, I was glad to finally know the truth. I remember my ex saying that it MADE HIM VERY ANGRY that I violated his privacy. I immediately said “It makes me very angry you’re in love with another woman,” after which he was silent.

        • lyn,
          Mine was angry at me too for reading the ow emails & hubby’s answers. He felt I violated his privacy. I had no right to read them!

          Omg he was the one that left his phone unlocked, ((we had the same phone)) as her messages started…

  • I just read the first few “suggestions”, and decided I didn’t want to get that pissed off before I went to work, I’ll leave the full story and UBT till I get home. I look forward to each and every one of you ripping this guy a new asshole,

  • I feel so sorry for Jack’s wife! I wish we could save her! Jack has unwittingly done us a massive service, he has allowed the mask to slip and shown us the true face of cheaters!

    • I think he voiced every entitled, arrogant sentiment that our partners held when it came to how we should respond to the affairs. It was an infuriating read, but because I know that cheater-boy really felt that way.

      I’d think he was “Jack”, except I left his worthless ass.

  • I got halfway through the UBT before I had to rage-quit. I’d like to throttle this navel gazing blameshifting asshole piece of narcissistic feces. If he was drowning, I’d throw him a dumbbell. Not very MEH after that one!

      • It’s for the best. It’s next to impossible to find a UBT repairman over the 4th of July. 🙂

        The worst part is that he believes all this, and inflicted this nonsense on a real, live human being that was unfortunate enough to marry him. I think I’d rather be lied to than deal with delusional stupidity.

        • You can tell by the content and the condescension etc. that this man is a narcissist. I know, that sounds simplistic and we are not supposed to be able to “diagnose” from afar and that, as lay people, we do not have the requisite expertise.
          But, I think, in reality, people that have been in relationships with folks like this man, many times, have a much better ability to see the NPD than even professionals.
          I would hate this guy if I met him in real life. I can just tell he would bug the shit out of me. He is a classic word salad type and he takes no responsibility for cheating, much like my first XW. He speaks out of both sides of his mouth and you can just tell he feels that his cheating was okay.
          Reading this guy’s stuff both makes my skin crawl and makes me want to pummel him, he is such a pedantic, condescending ass.

          • Arnold, absolutely. I might not be a “professional,” but after 20 years of marriage to my ex (who WAS professionally diagnosed as NPD) I can smell disorder just as accurately — if not more so — than any professional who only knows about NPD from a textbook or the lecture hall.

            Yes, the guy who wrote the blog is a master of word salad and the mind fuck. Typical people don’t have those skills, it takes a disordered person to truly master them.

            • I have never agree to the concept that only a professional can diagnose these folks. Most of these NPDs are so slick that when seen only in glimpses, like in a therapy session over a short duration, they can fool the pro’s.
              They pull their crap behind closed doors, for the most part, and it takes a decent amount of time to see the pattern, especially when you are in love with them and inclined to explain away some of the weird, abusive stuff they do.
              Light bulb moment for me was when my XW, after being out 4 nights a week , on average, to 2-3 in the morning. When asked why she was never around and told how the toddlers needed her, she just smirked and said dismissively/derisively ” of course, I get more time out than you. I have more friends than you.” ( I know, this is repetitive, and I have told this many times).
              But, it was, truly, the moment the light bulb finally went on for me. I could see that it was not a matter of her not knowing what she was doing or that it was different than what other parents did. It was, simply , a case of her truly believing that she occupied a higher place in the hierarchy than other folks,

              • I agree with you both, Arnold and GladIt’sOver – those that experience them behind 4 walls and in the public….for years….which is way more than one hour per week (if that) in the therapist’s office during a limited window of time (at $150 per hour), are way more expert on their behavior that the therapist.

              • I agree with all you guys too. You can spot out pretty much anyone with Cluster B diagnoses probably better if you’ve been entwined with them in your day to day life – than if you have a piece of paper which says you’re supposed to be able to spot them.
                Life experience tells you far more than that piece of paper, that’s for sure.
                I’m a fair bit younger than you guys (in fact, a lot of you are probably older than my mum!) but tbh, being able to spot this stuff in my 20s was a fucking gift. Its probably the greatest gift I’ve been given.

          • I agree 100% with that. I can pick one out WAY faster than any licensed psychologist. In fact, if you read some of their scholarly articles, it’s obvious that they’ve never actually seen one.

            • Completely agree; I’m in a related profession and had a debate with an “expert” in the narcissism about whether narcissists are just covering up for low self-esteem. Sure, cuz if you boost their ego, they actually become BETTER human beings (eye roll).

          • I think a good therapist who has access to all relevant information may be able to spot them and diagnose them. However, for your average therapist, whose initial inclination is to form a therapeutic “bond” with these duplicitous pigs, they may never clue in unless they unknowingly create a narcissistic injury. These disordered baboons L I E ALL. THE. TIME. They would not recognize the truth if it walked up, introduced itself and slapped them in the face. If they are in individual therapy, they are lying to the therapist, wearing their mask. Unless the average therapist has been specially and specifically trained to recognize the signs, particularly of covert narcissism, they give these assholes more tools and language to hide behind. I wish you could hear some of the poor sausage, I’m such a victim psychobabble that Satan’s Flaming Anus has tried out on me. It was sight to hear and behold. He is definitely in contention for the award for best performance by a disordered dickhead in a starring role.

            Sometimes, the spouses and the children are the only ones who can accurately see the disorder and eventually call it out for what it is as they are the only ones who have consistently seen the monster behind the mask. When I had been gone for awhile and discovered information which described what I had experienced, I said to my daughter, “I think your dad has a personality disorder.” She responded, “Mom, ethically I would be unwilling to diagnose or treat a family member. However, with that said, I will say that I won’t disagree with you.”

      • I read some remarks on his blog. One person goes by rtrducky which I assume means rubber ducky. While in the middle of some rather deep conversations Jack jumped in with “rubber ducky you’re the one, you make bathing lots of fun, hehe”. Creepy!

      • We need a Jack UBT part II then. This guy is comedy gold.

        (And also a public menace. I took some of his shitty advice when my STBX’s affair hit the fan last year, and all it got me was more painful chumpitude.)

    • I wish people like this would get dumped and avoided by every man/woman out there. Then, they could enjoy a life of celibacy. The world would be better off.

  • “You trashing them out is as good as saying you think your wayward spouse is an idiot.”

    Duh. We think worse things of them than that.

    So, dance harder, don’t judge me, don’t expect me to give up schmoopie right away, don’t expect transparency or apologies, because you did this to me. But I will not accept you doing the same things to me that I did to you, because it would be your fault still.

    I think I strained a muscle rolling my eyes while reading this idiot’s tripe.

    • Excellent re-cap! I think the worst aspect is the harm it causes those still in the pick me dance. I felt very sad for the pain this bullshit inflicts and the delay in healing it inevitably causes. So grateful to CN.

    • Love how it’s all ‘wayward’- like they just got lost and ended up in a vagina or with a penis in their mouth! Simple mistake on the way to the grocery store…

  • I couldn’t read the whole thing. This guy is a fucking idiot. I come across stupid people like him a lot these days. Dressing up fucked up shit and trying to make it sound less fucked up than it is. I wonder if he knows the words coming out of his mouth smell like shit! He can fuck all the way off!

    • Well said YoungChump! We are speaking the truth of this pain. Those like Jack Ass who mask it truly fall in an evil category. He’s just justifying his narcissistic actions. So sick.

  • So, was cheating an intelligent thing to choose or the stupid thing? If it was so bad for others to know his actual deeds, why do them in the first place? He fails to grasp his reputation was destroyed by HIS OWN DEEDS as a cheater…not by it being made known, per se. It’s like a criminal getting pissed over having his crime exposed. Super-sick in my opinion.

  • Oh and do not read the comments posted after the actual article. They will make you weep with rage. Poor chumps.

    • Ye gods, I know! I couldn’t do more than skim his whole spiel, but I was curious about the comments. I think (and hope) he censored all the comments except for leaving one token dissenter to show what an honest, open guy he is.

        • Her name is Nephlla, and she has a site called ragesarcasmvitriol.com. I just found this out when I went back and checked. Her comment was pretty lukewarm, but his response leads me to think there’s more to it. Now I’m curious about her site.

          • I noticed he has shut the blog down and he eludes to the fact that he shut it down because there were too many haters…oh and he had learned everything he could learn through it. Pathetic. I feel so sorry for his wife.

          • They’ve been going back and forth forever. She was chumped a while ago, and is still with the cheater. Wreckconcilation at its finest

            • What is so maddening is that OW/OM blog and then constantly support each other in their fuckupness. The sad ones are the chumps still hanging on to the belief that the sob who lied and cheated for years is a changed man/woman. They have even discussed this blog because they think everyone here is too angry and to set on divorce. Some of them are married to sex addicts. I have a hard time with that diagnosis. Addiction never stays hidden. Heroin, cocaine, oxy, meth, booze, etc all make the addict so dependent that their addiction is the family illness. Even gamblers, by losing money, are caught and yet these so called sex addicts can live a hidden life for years. I agree it is a compulsion but not a true addiction. Sorry, off subject. I am the daughter of a woman who cheated and left. I mean left. She remarried and so did my father. I was pretty sure I was handling it until I wanted my young family to go home for Chridtmas only to remember there was no home to go to. My very young children had adored their grandparents and fell apart. Then my SIL dumped her family. All of a sudden my mother lived in one state, my father in another, my brother and his kids in a third and me and my family in a fourth. Between job requirements and abandonments our nice nuclear family blew sky high. I have only spent two night in the town where I grew up. The cheater Jack sounds like he could care less that people like those in my family could get the shrapnel blow out. .

              • If a cheater is actually repentant, reconciliation is a hard road. It’s really up to the chump, whether or not he or she wants to reconcile in that case. The chump has zero obligation to do so. If a cheater is talking solely about his/her needs and happiness, I highly doubt that person is repentant. Repentant people care about the effect of their actions on their significant other and they care about their significant other’s needs/happiness. Without that kind of reciprocity, the betrayed spouse is simply pick me dancing in misery while shelving their own needs and happiness. Not to mention the fact that the betrayed spouse is also putting his or her health at risk over someone who could care less about them.

  • Today’s post made me sick to my stomach, literally. I had to stop reading at mid-paragraph several times. His way of thinking is so perverted.

    • I couldn’t read it. I did try. Couldn’t read his original crap and thought the UBT version would be easier. Not really. Sorry CL, that’s probably the first post I couldn’t get through.

      Well, actually, I did read the translations. It was reading the paragraphs connected to them that made me flinch like Dracula having a cross waved at him.

    • I could feel the anger boiling up inside me while I was reading….I had to keep taking breaks and deep breaths to get through it. The blame shifting was so over the top!

  • Wow. The Cheater Handbook, latest edition.
    Nothing new here…”Cheating is wrong, but FYI, it’s all the Chump’s fault, yes really.”
    He is so full of it, this Cheater requires a torpedo enema. The toxins have reached his brain. Wish we could hear from his reconciled wife. Cheater probably has this website blocked from her view. CL, your next book can’t come out soon enough with this loon about….

    • Yep. The entire blog post says it’s the Chump’s fault.

      I do note, though, that some of the mistakes are accurately reported, including the observation that the Chump often makes the mistake in believing that the Cheater really has ended the affair.

      Wonder if Jack’s wife has figured out that he’s just confessed to Yet. More. Cheating.

      I guess that Jack would come back with the response that he’s “addicted” to the affair, and that he’s a Poor Sausage ruled by his gonads.

      • I was struck by the number of times he mentioned the words “addict” or “addiction” as a way of excusing cheaters who just can’t help themselves, poor dears. Of course it’s not a character problem, it’s an addiction problem – for which I deserve your sympathy and tolerance.

  • I’m sure EH thinks he has suffered exceedingly over what he did. Bowels, or whatever. But I’m sure he spins it as not what he did but how I reacted. Typical. He won’t blame himself.

    • Mine still tells me that what he knows what he did was wrong but it’s how I handled it that made him give up on trying to save our marriage (as he was sleeping with her at night – and in my own home)

      • Yes, the poor sausage types. Mine “suffered” because I wasn’t cool about him walking out on me out of the blue just at the time I needed him most, was “going to hate him forever” (my cue to let him off the hook), and didn’t want to be friends.

  • If there is a g-d, this guy will get hit by a bus today and his unfortunate wife will get the pleasure of ordering the disconnect of his life support.

    • Indychump! LOL!! We can only hope!
      But, it won’t really change him much ….This guy is already brain-dead! 😉
      And “Ditto!” what all the rest of Chump Nation has said about his tripe & drivel!

      ForgeOn, all y’all……

      • Lmao! You’re right, on the brain dead already part!

        – if only we could go all survivor style and vote his ass off the earth.

          • I would contribute my entire months rent to help fund this. Hell, I’d go all Matt Foley and live in a van, down by the river for a full year.

  • Amazing the audacity here, for a cheater to presume to tell victims of cheating how they fail at recovering from cheating. Can you imagine a sexual predator writing a column, “The Most Common Mistakes Made by Rape Victims in Recovering from Rape?” Or, a KKK Wizard writing a column, “The Most Common Mistakes Made by African-Americans in Recovering from Lynchings?”

    Jack: you are the LAST person who should give advice on this particular topic.

    No shame, no decency, no clue.

    • Just puzzled. Why would rape victims or families of African-American lynch victims have any reason to be “bitter”? I mean, you just gotta let it go.

      • Yeah, right? Because everyone makes mistakes. Haven’t you? Didn’t you once forget to put the gas cap back on your car before driving away from the gas station? So there! You make mistakes, too. Which means you’re exactly the same as a rapist or a racist lynch mob.

    • I think that guy would have been MUCH better served by saying something like this:

      – I cheated. No excuse. I sucked. I have a character flaw that made me react in a terrible, terrible way to a bad situation in my marriage (and those things made ME vulnerable because of my character at the time).

      – My wife was amazing enough to stick with me, and to be willing to work on her side of the marriage equation once we dealt with my incredibly shitty, irresponsible choices.

      – Here’s what she did in our reconciliation that helped me get past my own issues and made me a better person.

      Instead, it’s framed in click-bait style, with enough blame-shifting to move a K2-sized level of blame halfway around the globe.

      Sad.

      • Hey, shame makes him feel icky inside. Trust that he feels icky. Do NOT make him talk about the icky feelings or demonstrate his remorse. It makes him feel icky.

        • Ironically, instead of him having “healthy shame”, his wife gets to feel “toxic shame” that she doesn’t deserve. I really hope she gets wise to his bs.

      • Okay, how chumpy is it that you took on the responsibility of re-writing the cheater’s column so that it would be smart and honest and compassionate and helpful? I’m guessing you (like most of us) did a lot of this instinctual spackling in your relationship.

        • nomar – I suppose that I did. I’m the type of person who is very public (I have a sort CL style blog that is popular in its own – very, very different – niche, so I am used to getting people commenting both in support and in opposition. And I often try to see some value even in the worst comments… the gem hidden in the pile of poop.

          That author is a piece of work, total loser, don’t get me wrong. I guess I just looked at it and thought, wow, the potential to actually have been helpful, and instead he couldn’t get over his narc leanings for an hour to actually think about how this would have been helpful **for the target audience**!

          • Oh, I get it. Your helpful and verbal nature was shining through that take on the other author’s drivel. But isn’t being determined to find “the gem hidden in the pile of poop” kind of the essence of chumpdom? I’m the same way. I’m too old to change now, but I try to be better about recognizing poop for what it is and walking away. There are more gems (and REAL gems) in the gem story, after all!

              • I’ve read stuff similar to this guy’s crap. Invariably, they point to the neglect/failure to meet needs deal coming from the betrayed. It has always amazed me at how these folks fail to consider that, most likely, they, as a person with such a character flaw as to cheat in response to a perceived problem, were the source of most, if not all , of the pre-affair problems in the marriage.
                Sure, the BS was imperfect ( did anyone’s vows contain a qualifying clause that fidelity was off the table in the event of imperfection?).
                But, I wish some of these WS writers would stop and ask themselves: ” Hey, I cheated. That means, by definition, I lack integrity, compassion, empathy, courage, communication skills, problem solving ability, commitment, etc. Maybe, just maybe, these qualities or lack thereof, might have made me a less than ideal spouse in other areas , not just fidelity?”.
                I have the same question for folks who accept the cheater’s justifications and characterizations of the marriage and the betrayed spouse. Did it ever dawn on these third parties that they are listening to an admitted liar with an incredible self interest is selling his or her position so as to make him/herself look and feel better?

  • This insight into the cheaters’ personality is astonishing. After reading through this bs I was left feeling exhausted at how much ass-kissing cake follow-up he expected of his wife. What a fucktard. Hope she escapes.

  • Wow this shit is hilarious, does anyone really still use the word wooing. As for expecting a chump do do so, if the thought ever crossed your mind I hope you followed it up with a high five to the forehead.
    As for chumps examining their own issues yep 100% it’s a great way to get to Meh, and aids fixing your picker so you never indulge another exploitive Narc as long as you live.

    Where there things in my marriage that I could of done better of cause but in my case there were things I was never going to be able to provide no matter how hard I pick me danced. So to cheat was my Xh’s only option, to come out was not and is still not an option in his mind.
    As I read this it seemed to me that he is writing from the stand point of being a victim of his own stupidity and along with every other cheater. It is the chumps job to bolster their self esteem in the hope they will get past their need to be stupid.

    Sadly I did not have to woo, dance, etc, it was just expected that all would continue as it had during our marriage and as the months dragged on and XH and his supporters realised there would be no reconciliation they set about saving face.
    They are all idiots, you act like an idiot, talk like an idiot, you must be an idiot.

    My XH is the mayor of idiot ville, he has no concept of what is rational and what isn’t. I now live by the notion that you can’t fix stupid, I know I’v tried.

  • Dear Jesus, I couldn’t even read your whole article, Tracy. What kind of puke is this guy spouting? What a friggin’ loser. Sure do feel sorry for his chumped wife. She had to have pick-me danced like crazy. Who would even want this asshole? I’m so mad right now I could scream. Can you say Narc?

    • I don’t know that she did. I’ll bet she did all those things he talked about, incessant bitching and complaining, threatening to expose, rehashing it all the time, etc. Did you notice how many times he used the term “resentment” – with that resentment always being against his wife? I think he was writing somewhat from experience.

      The dumbass can’t put two and two together to figure out that as long as he has such an unrepentant attitude, she’s going to be mad! It’s a very typical human response to a complete asshole. Duh!!!

  • Oh, and also, the way he insults a female commenter who disagrees with him. He sounds like a horrible prick indeed.
    And his use of the word “nazis” speaking about a support group. Total lack of imagination and culture.

  • Unreal.Last night I was thinking about how I’m getting to a better place. I’ve completely stopped the dark ruminations about what I should have done to keep her from straying or whatever else I must have been doing to make multiple affairs the answer, to make the pick me dance crap sandwich something I tried to digest because I wanted her back, only to have her go, “Oh well, WE tried, but I need more cake. Not done yet.”

    Then I read this and realized I had the wrong approach. It WAS really my fault I drove her to it. Too late now, but I sure made some big mistakes that I need to go back and answer for. Maybe I need to sit down with her and tell her that now I understand why she left my son and I in the night during a family ski vacation to go be with a ski instructor she had met in the bar while my son and I were renting his equipment and unpacking. It’s OK, we were boring, I get it now. A couple of nights with a younger ski instructor is a lot more exciting than having your son lead you all to a quiet hill and saying, “Let’s stop for a minute and just listen to the quiet and the snow falling.”

    I truly appreciate the enlightenment.

    • Chumpguy, that story is very similar to what my XW did while we were on vacation with our kids. She hooked up with the lounge singer from the resort’s bar. It is amazing how they lack simple decency. Who pulls this shit while on vacation with one’s kids?

      • Indeed, what sort of person does these things? Yet as you pointed out above in a prior comment, there is this seeming built in assumption that I am not comfortable with. That is, that the chump was probably in large measure, a neglectful, fat, bitchy, sex denying, boring, (fill in the blanks) person that was at least equally, if not largely, responsible for the cheater being “unhappy” and being driven to cheat. That the marriage was wretched (mainly because of the chump – after all the cheater was ‘unhappy”), and that the cheater just maybe didn’t use the best judgment in how he or she responded to an intolerable situation.

        The line is sort of, “Yeah, I’m sorry if that hurt you, but these things don’t happen in a vacuum. I was really unhappy for a long time. Maybe infidelity was not the best answer, and we can try to work on that. In the meantime, you need to work on making sure all of my needs are met, all the time, without being asked. Then maybe I will be in a better place and be able to express my dissatisfaction in a different way.”

        No one is perfect, but I look back and can honestly say I did everything in my power to be the best husband and father I could possibly be. Perhaps the reason these people are “unhappy” lies with them, rather than the chump.

        • Chumpguy, don’t forget that you’re also supposed to forgive them and never, ever mention their indiscretions again. That’s a key point to how reconciliation works with a cheater per this wingnut. The end result – keep being his chump and he’ll keep f’ing whoever he wants. Ugh!

        • Chumpguy – even if a chump was ALL of those things – its likely because the cheater was being a neglectful prick in the first place. But of course, you’ll never hear that level of self-introspection from a cheater.

    • Wow, just wow, Chumpguy,

      It blows my mind to see how a female sociopath is every bit as cruel and coldblooded as a male one. And being a mother!!!!!! makes zero difference in the fucked-up narc. I guess with a female it gives me double goosebumps of horror. Wishing you all the best, Chumpguy. You and your son will recover and have a gazillon times better future.

      • Thanks for the kind words! Son and I are very, very close (always have been and remain so). We’re rolling along, I know this has hurt him, but he’s strong, and I have his back, always.

        • It is the big secret, there are female sociopaths/narcs among us, just like males. I read that many of the women NPD/ASPD types are lumped in with the borderlines. Seems that some therapists are just not comfortable with diagnosing them as sociopaths or NPD.

          • I never considered this. Certainly the asshat’s MOW has many many NPD traits besides being loon. Those dots were easy to connect:
            Married her married AP? CHECK!
            No kids due to her self proclaimed selfishness? CHECK!
            Obsessed with herself? CHECK!
            Need for external validation that she really isn’t an old fat vacuous hag? CHECK!
            ….blah blah blah.

            This chick is loser like asshat. Maybe not diagnosable NPD, but heavy on sociopathy and self absorption. She kept trolling my very secure FB account via asshat’s account. I didn’t know who the fuck she was until I busted asshat, and yet FB suggested I friend this creep.

            I have no idea why mental health pros are neglectful to diagnose women with these mental issues. Maybe culturally we are too hung up on a Madonna/Whore complex instead of looking at these fuckers holistically and not by gender.

            • Oh my god, my husband’s MOWhore also has no kids due to her “self proclaimed selfishness” and her messed up FOO. Wow, what a WINNER. He better keep that nutball away from my sons!

              • I’d like to point out that there’s plenty of people who chose not to have children who are not @$$holes. The married to the AP thing and self-obsession are pretty huge red flags, however.

          • I completely agree that female Narcs are under- or wrongly diagnosed. My brother married a female narc (GUARANTEED she will drop the names of the two Ivy League colleges from which she got degrees within *2* minutes of meeting anyone, and then repeat those colleges within 10 minutes).

            My X’s main affair, grad-whore, was a narc. Deliberately set about to seduce a married professor (not that my serial cheater X was unwilling, mind you), and after he dumped her, tried it AGAIN with another high-prestige professor. Within the space of one year, she attempted to break up two marriages to further her career? Because she could? One peek at her Facebook page confirms her Narc status.

          • I know several female narcs. They are definitely out there, and just as damaging as their male counterparts.

    • Chump guy
      X met his whore at a bar on our 36 year anniversary. He picked the place and disappeared for hours. That was it. Sorry about your son. How sick for him to have this memory.

  • How I wish that the comments on that original “article” weren’t closed!

    There are some pretty enormous assumptions underpinning that piece, and in my view they are not givens (and note that they are unstated):

    1) the cheater’s reaction to unhappiness in the marriage is not indicative of a character flaw, because anyone will cheat under the right set of circumstances, and

    2) the cheater is worthy of reconciliation and it is incumbent on the betrayed spouse to determine their unexpressed “true” intentions rather than basing their conclusions on the cheater’s demonstrated behaviors.

    I logically reject both assumptions:

    1) Just as many – if not the majority based on current statistics – of married people do not cheat even though they are unhappy in their marriages, and some cheaters cheat despite self-reporting that they’re in happy marriages. It is laughably illogical to assume that cheating is a given; the exact same set of circumstances can drive one spouse to cheat and another to instead seek counseling or file for divorce, do nothing, etc.

    It is a logical contradiction to state that there are no excuses to cheating, and then offer the state of the relationship as a reason or explanation for cheating. This is falsely equating the state of the marriage (which is the result of both spouses’ actions) with the decision to cheat, thus minimizing the choice of the cheater to react in an abusive way by consciously choosing an affair; if two people in the same set of circumstances act differently, they made different choices, and the one who made the morally poorer choice has a character flaw.

    2) I’m not sure that I even need to go into further detail on this one, but what the hell, let’s do it.

    Some people get totally bent out of shape when we “judge” them without knowing what’s in their hearts and minds, but since we have no way of knowing their intentions if not adequately expressed (btw, any class on communications will teach you that it’s the transmitter of the message who holds the responsibility of conveying their meaning not the receiver), then we’ve no choice but to judge people based on how they act. The vast majority of our entire legal system is based on this premise.

    Combine the above with the fact that we “judge” situations and people all of the time, constantly, every moment of every day, and that we do that in some cases instinctively based on millions of years of evolution shaping our intuition, and I don’t see how anyone can logically conclude that a cheater should be helped and trusted **despite** that person lacking remorse, demonstrating exceptionally poor character, and confusing the state of the relationship for their own destructive choices (blame-shifting).

    The cheater will likely claim that they are “not themselves” but this is also a logical disconnect: ether the betrayed spouse can understandably conclude that the cheater has a serious character flaw and ill-developed value system based on their actions, or can conclude that the cheater’s “real” personality is their positive, unrealized potential, which the cheater is arguably actively moving away from anyway by choosing to cheat.

    • “This is falsely equating the state of the marriage (which is the result of both spouses’ actions) with the decision to cheat,…”

      Sephage, I don’t have a ‘sexual cheater’ ( but what do I know, right..)
      but as I read the responses in the post a few days ago, which were all about how the cheaters actually abused their spouses relentlessly and cruelly in every area of the ‘non-marriage’…
      How they targeted, trapped, embezzled, exploited, stole, lied, practically raped physically or figuratively their chump etc because they are sociopaths/narcs, …I think we can safely conclude that the ‘state of the marriage’ was not due to ‘mutual problems’ either. Sure they were ‘unhappy’ and ‘suffering’ when the chump tried to hold them accountable, or to change the hell they found themselves in… And what is the Abusers response to that?? True to their character all along….a huge shit cherry on the triple decker shit sandwich of abuse we call cheating. Is there anything sacred to these sub-humans? No, they are missing a crucial piece of biology – conscience and empathy. So angry here..That guy who wrote the article is certifiable NPD or worse. Poor his spouse..imagine.

      • Sasanka – As I like to say, I can now wake up every morning without my cheating STBXW, but she still has to wake up with *herself* every morning. I am pretty sure that will punishment enough for most cheaters, eventually: having to face themselves.

  • Well, that’s the twisted “reasoning” you see Down the Rabbit Hole, for sure.

    Don’t miss that nonsense.

  • “Jack’s” wife must be living in lala land. Sadly, she needs the CL more than anyone. What a line of bullshit.

  • thanks for this valuable UBT of cheater logic. it unfortunately reflects the way far too many people still think. especially the part about… “something lacking in the marriage” —from the betrayed spouse! we have so much education to do, fellow mighty chumps..

    CL is doing her part with the blog and books….anyone with connections to get her on the Daily Show before It ends?!

  • Oh Jack. I just have one thing to say…

    FUCK YOU!!!! And the horse you rose in on!!!!

  • “I would be very careful of the words you use in your anger — they will be remembered and can become an obstacle.” All those suggestions about forgiveness, not holding a grudge, not throwing things in your cheater’s face…yeah, those are only one-way actions. Cheat, and your spouse is expected to bend over backwards to not make a big deal about it. Get (justifiably) angry, and you’ve put up a REAL OBSTACLE, you have.

    • My ex never called me a name, raised his voice in anger or a hand in anger for 26 years. Then he cheated and became mean and nasty where our good friends and family noticed. Then the newness and nasty name calling began. My youngest son asked me if his father was on drugs his behavior was so bad! Fuck jack and forgive the cheater my ass! Never!!!

  • Bite me. Chumps are under no obligation to be saints.

    I was unable to read most of the post because it was drivel. I do, however, agree with the one about telling your partner that nobody will love them more than you. I said that before I knew about his mistress and he was walking out. I thought it was true. Now, I realize how foolish that was.

    There must have been many like me.

    • Cheryl, he’s already found someone worthy of himself. The co cheater. They are definitely deserving of each other.

  • ‘You trashing them out is as good as saying your Wayward Spouse is an idiot. ‘ Yes. Your Wayward Spouse is an idiot. Was this man expecting a fucking around Nobel?

  • This is what really scares me. Somewhere there is a chump reading this dribble thinking she or he could do a better job at the dance to reconcile with a liar, cheater faker.

    The entitlement of this asshole literally makes me sick to my stomach.

  • The good thing is we all see this for what it is, and we can spread the word , instead of believing it. To paraphrase Prince, A whore is a whore is a whore. That’s all chumps need to know.

  • Ummmm . . . delicious UBT. I like this one:

    “In general, a spouse recovers from the pain more readily to the extent that s/he is able to see his/her own part in the marriage difficulties that may have made the relationship vulnerable. These mistakes may include not following up on early hints of potential infidelity. It’s paradoxical, but the more someone feels that they had a role in the development of the affair, the more empowered that person will feel to make changes that will strengthen the marriage in the future.”

    So, what he’s saying is, the poor chump will get over it quicker if they just admit they drove Jack to it. Chump will feel EMPOWERED to make changes (pick me dance) to keep Jack happy forever and ever.

    I am Jack’s desire for cake.
    I am Jack’s sense of entitlement.
    I am Jack’s inflated ego.

    Ummmm . . . delicious Fight Club quotes.

    • Right on. That quote is the most egregious example of word salad I’ve ever seen. The chump will feel EMPOWERED by OWNING what they’ve done to cause their spouse to cheat?

      You know, it’s not like our spouses always made us deliriously happy. I have had plenty of times in the marriage where I felt under appreciated, used, unloved, and taken for granted. I didn’t go out and form a relationship with someone else and lie about it.

      Why not? If marital problems, which everyone has, lead to affairs, why aren’t we all cheaters?

  • The ironic thing about this is that I actually TRIED to do many of the things Jack suggests. I tried to address my issues, I tried to be more accommodating to H, tried not to freak out when he leased a car we couldn’t afford, tried to relentlessly do the “Pick me Polka” when I knew he was still talking to her, when there were signs everywhere… his demeanor with me, his actions, new clothes, manscaping… I tried to ignore it all and concentrate on HIM, like the blog said. One red flag after another. That did NO good. It actually made me look more pathetic and more needy which I think was a massive turnoff.

    I “did” demand that he give up the whore… but seriously, who wouldn’t? The idea that the spouse should be allowed to “ease” out of an extramarital affair is preposterous. If your spouse finds out your a cheating, or even in my case, finds out you have a “friend” that isn’t appropriate (calls/texts daily)- isn’t the best course of action if you are serious about your marriage to CEASE contact immediately and straighten up? Many chumps give our spouses extra chances.. only to have them throw it back in our faces. Mine finally fessed up to one other meeting with her, but he swears that “it was only that once”.. does he have a bridge to sell me too? I am expected to BELIEVE that? He’s lied to me so many times, NOW I am supposed to believe him? Have trust? Have faith?

    Chumpy as I am, I might even be able to forgive him, but he still hasn’t really ASKED to be forgiven. He “regrets” going to see the whore, but he doesn’t really admit the relationship was wrong. IF it was innocent, why did he lie about it? Because I would “shame” him…. just like the blog says. I SHAME him. Well, maybe it’s his ACTIONS that shame him, not me. Maybe he KNOWS it’s wrong, and he KNOWS it deserves shame, and rather that show some humility, some understanding of the damage he’s caused me and my kids, he instead tries to weasel out of it and blameshift. It’s my REACTION to his activities that are the problem, not his choices.

    Fuck that.

    This whole article shows just what CL professes, the entitlement, the narcissism, the “me me me” attitude. Are we chumps perfect? No. And because we are CAPABLE of self reflection, many of us freely admitted that we made mistakes in the marriage and were more than willing to work on our flaws. But we did not receive the reciprocity on the other side. That is the problem. In order to reconcile, you need honest, transparency and self reflection. Most cheaters don’t possess the character to do these things, some do, but not most.

      • You aren’t alone ChumpAtl! That is what nauseates me and I throw up in my mouth a bit just thinking about how I practically kissed his “poor little ass” constantly! Meanwhile his affair was rolling along just fine and he and Schmoopie were having a good laugh at my expense! It pisses me off to no end the shit he was pulling while I was following all the useless reconciliation crap! It should be titled, ” how to ensure you lose your mind and ass in the final divorce decree”. Geez! Talk about making a chump a lunatic! I was out of my mind most of the time over the past two years and all Cheater did was take advantage of that! I hope he burns in Hell and the idiot who wrote that shit above roasts right along side him and Schmoopie! Now that would be Justice!

    • Sure, ease away from the affair partner. Just like AA recommends people go from 8 to only 4 beers and then taper off to 3, 2, 1, none over the course of a year. SMH

  • Truth be told, many cheaters cheat because the chump is too good of a person and THAT is the source of the cheater’s shame. That’s why they “affair down”.

  • “I paid a huge price! Like, inside. You can’t see my bowels, but they’re irritable.”

    Bwahahahaha! Oh, let me catch my breath…that was damn funny.

    The ONLY thing that’s accurate here is when he states that chumps must not believe the affair is over just because the cheater has declared it over. Chumps, take heed.

  • GAG! That was hard to stomach. There’s too much idiocy, double standards, blame shifting & arrogance in his writings to even cover it all.

    So I’ll just gag instead.

  • This also made me gag. I hope he is not a professional. I believe he is trying to say that you need two mature people to face this thing together and there is work to to. My ExH lied during couples counseling.

    Chump Lady maybe you can find the unicorn that is a happy couple that reconciled after an affair — you know, the kind that say the affair saved their marriage?

  • Awww.. Jack is just a Poor-Sad-Timid-Forest-Sausage. I agree with CL’s closing suggestion of a salute. I have some Arthritis in my hands, but I’ll try. Ugg! Can’t…manage…more…than…one…digit…sorry.

  • Im sorry, I know as a husband I lacked in many ways. But I will never own her affair as a just response to my actions/in-actions! And the concept of understanding their need to break off and mourn the loss of AP is beyond all rational thought. No just go move in with the POS! These people who write this garbage should be sent to a secluded island with no internet or any means to be heard from again.

    • Yeah, what the hell is up with that? “The cheater needs time” to grieve, let go, move on, ease out – and the chump is supposed to let it fucking go the minute after discovery. Fuck. No. They. Are. Not. Special.

      • YES – I so agree with you! My ex was as serial cheater for 10 years before I caught him and kicked his ass out. He knew all that time what he was doing behind my back and yet I’m supposed to forgive him immediately, never mention it again and let him ease out of this way of life – fuck that!

        Funny thing is that’s pretty much what he asked for – me to forgive immediately, never mention it again, him to move back home and for our life to continue as it had been (cheating and all). He even had the nerve to tell me that his world had turned upside down since I kicked him out but that mine had not changed at all – LOL! Once I said hell no to what he wanted to happen, he turned on me so fast and it all became my fault. So glad to be done with his sorry ass.

    • And that shit is made worse when the fucked up MC agrees with the cheater and asks if you can deal with allowing email, no you ignorant POS MC, Wtf is wrong with the idiot MCs?

  • I love this quote/exchange from season one of True Detective from McConaughey (likely chump) to Woody Harrelson (a philandering dickbag):

    Rust: As sentient meat, however illusory our identities are, we craft those identities by making value judgments. Everybody judges all the time. Now, you got a problem with that, you’re living wrong.

    Marty: What’s scented meat?.

  • Reading this makes me want to tear my hair out! Okay all you Chumps, put on your blinders, dust off your dancing shoes! We’re off to the “Pick Me Dance Prom!”

  • I can’t get past “series of unfortunate actions”. First I unzipped my pants, then I had sex with a woman I’m not married to, then I set up up fake Facebook and email accounts, then I continued to lie and sneak around for 2 years, then the most unfortunate of all–I got caught. Dick.

    Yes, give him time to gradually ease out of the affair because it’s like an addiction, but don’t express any negative feelings over your whole life changing in the blink of an eye. Did anyone else feel like they were hit by a train on dday?

    And don’t bludgeon him, even though the triggers you feel constantly is like the emotional equivalent of being tied up and beaten with a baseball bat every single day.

    And of course affairs don’t happen in happy marriages, even though 75% of men surveyed report being happy in their marriage when their affair started.

    And whatever you do, don’t even make a whimper while you react to the trauma of the worst betrayal a person can inflict on another. Cause that reminds me of what a scumbag I really am. Just tamp it down, shhh….shhh…..

    And if you could just keep this between us, that would be great. ‘K?

    Oh, and please don’t do it to me. Thanks babe.

    • The UBT for cheater telling OW, “I haven’t been happy for two years”

      “I am a fucking lying serial cheater and you appear needy enough to fuck me tonight”.

      The UBT fir the OWhore telling the honest spouse, “you should see a marriage counselor”

      “I’ve pretty much sealed the deal fucking your husband in my car, your bed, at the beach and anytime or place he wants”.

      Whore #17 was different from the others. She was the final one X would have during our marriage. She won limp dick. I filed before I met her.

      Let’s face it. We are the innocent victims of cheating abuse from our spouses. Yet we are put in the position of doing the pick me dance. I have participated many times and was successful, sarcasm intended. We fight for them and promise to change. All of this defies logic yet we are determined to make it work at our own expense. I never recognized the “pick me dance” until, thankfully I came here. It was never worth it. X never once fought for our marriage. He belittled me to his family, coworkers, and many side fucks. His lies became his truth.

      There are many similarities in our stories and for most part I feel like there is a time warp (speaking of myself) between having all the knowledge, getting it, and reaching MEH. Jack is an asshole and his cheater logic is disturbing to read. Yet he really DOES speak from a cheaters point ov view. I did the “I can’t believe..,” dance for 41 fucking years. Thank you chump lady for introducing us to the Jack of all cheaters. We all have a Jack/Jill. BELIEVE they are really all this fucked up in their delusional minds.

      I believe The Clip mentioned knowing and or focusing on our own self worth yesterday. After our brief introduction to Jack I feel like I’ve known him forever and that is why he is so repulsive and yet familiar. Jack deciphered the cheater logic code. Working on my self worth got a bump up today. I am worthy of so much more. It clicked.

  • I can’t even finish reading his crap.

    But I do have a suggestion, based on what I did read, and that is this: He should consider changing the title to, You Don’t REALLY Want To “Reconcile” With a Cheater, And Here’s Why

  • Seriously, as a betrayed spouse, the only “mistake” I made was not kicking his dirty, cheating ass out two seconds after I found out! I wasted 2 years of my precious time and did not realize what a dick he really was! My Bad! But good news. Now he is the Schmoopies dirty, cheating dick!

  • I’m absolutely seething now – at my asshat X & at Jack Ass (thanks Nomar!) for being consummate narcissists, but also at myself a bit. I now remember stepping in this pile of cyber-horseshit right after D-Day. Sadly, I was so torn up and so completely chumpy that I bought into it for a brief period. Then I found ChumpLady and saw things for what they really were.

    They say things happen for a reason. I think that may be true. I’ve been feeling sort of sad and lonely lately, for who I thought asshat X was. After reading this, I’m righteously pissed-off again and feeling better. Thank you CL.

  • “Understanding history enables one to prevent its reoccurence. This understanding however has to be observational rather than self-flagellating. Being excessively angry at oneself can block real learning. “Shame and blame” do little toward prevention. Understanding of the series of unfortunate actions and decisions that led to the affair is critically important. So is desire to put one’s life on a totally different course, a course of true marriage commitment.”

    I actually agree partly final pgh (although, frankly, I find shame and self-flagellation to be a very powerful tool for people who are capable of such emotions and actions [aka, not cheaters]).

    But be clear, Jack, that the self-reflection and recognition of boundaries (and instances that you crossed them) that describe is…to we chumps…known as “common sense.”

    No cheater, EVER, looked back at their affair and honestly asked themselves, “How did it happen?” Yes, that’s what they say to friends, family, and therapists: “I don’t know how I got here; it just happened; etc.” But that’s like me looking back and wondering how the hell I got to work this morning, fully showered and clothed, with a cup of coffee and end-of-the-week egg sandwich treat in my hand. I made entirely conscious choices, each minute of the morning, to undertake specific actions that led me to where I am this very moment. Anyone who claims otherwise is a liar.

  • Jack no doubt married his affair partner. I’m not 100% sure, just a guess.

    What I gathered from his ramblings is what we lost when we dumped the unfaithful. Jack can get line with the rest of the character disordered. It sucks Jack when your true identity is revealed and your only audience is entitled pricks like yourself. Are narcissists vulnerable when the Mask is finally off and they are exposed? What’s an addict to do without all that supply? Masturbating getting you down? It’s good to know there’s a blog to contain all that narcissistic entitlement, rage, and disregard as an example of how the disordered attempt to regain power and control instead of getting real help for their mental illness. You’ve created an institutional asylum filled with mirrors with no way out. At least you can all see your reflections.

    • Nope, Donna, he did not marry her. I read more of the blog. ADD, you know. He dumped her. Spent three weeks explaining to her why (damage control). She went bunny boiler. Big surprise, since these bitches are unstable. He now has a restraining order on her. Lol. Karma

      • Actually. I think bunny boilers aid in reconciliation cause they give the spouses a common enemy. Sick as that is…

      • Not Juliet

        X I swear wears an ankle bracelet. Whore controls his every move. Literally he is a prisoner of his addictions. Whore feeds his delusions and uses sex to control. The pairing of a narcissist and a BP narcissist is quite disturbing. When I read Jack shits lack of insight into his disturbed thinking about how to keep the attention on himself it reminds me if how fortunate we at as chumps to have CN. What they think no longer matters. We really need to see they really have nothing. I thought he was worthy of more than a cheap trashy druggie bar whore pig. The truth is that I am worthy of more than a drunk pot smoking pathological cheater that seeks out slime.

      • The affair partner outed him-that’s why he dumped her. This guy had another blog and used to frequent an infidelity board I went to when I was a MAJOR chump doing the pick me polka. You should have read how he went on about the OW and how she lied about everything from her age to keeping their twu wuv a secret.

        I so want to find his wife so I can send her links to CL daily.

          • Basically he confessed because the bunny boiler was going to tell the wife. He had to tell her. It was all about damage control after that.

            Suddenly the bunny boiler wasn’t as appealing as she was during his two year affair. He blathered on about how her neck gave away her age in one particularly charming post.

            This guy’s writing is a treasure trove of inconsistencies. Not to mention the fact that he’s one of those sorry.not sorry types.

            He had a cult following of betrayed female spouses that hung on his every word too. One of them even blogs about a dinner she, her cheating husband, “Jack” and his chump had one evening.

            His blog was a total train wreck and no matter how hard I tried, I couldn’t look away. I will say that it helped open my eyes to what true reconciliation DID NOT look like. The ex in my life was about as sorry about his affair as this gem. Hence his ex status.

      • It is somewhat Karmatic (is that a word) justice when the bunny boiler hits home.. I feel for his poor chumpy wife.. now they have a crazy bunny boiler out there, restraining order or not.

        • Yes, newchumpatl. Unfortunately, it is ALWAYS the betrayed spouse who suffers. Always. Jack ass and his kind get kibbles from the affair partner who refuses to let go, as well. They musta been really Special…

  • I had to go in search of this article after reading this post. At first it was infuriating, then I saw it for the entertainment value that it offered. The whole article is so much more condescending. Amongst other tidbits of amazing advice and judginess by this jerk I loved this:

    ” People who hit someone out of anger and emotion are not only low-class, immature and of low character, they sometimes end up in jail. Don’t be that person. If you can’t deal with infidelity (or any problem) without resorting to violence, you have essentially confirmed in your Wayward’s mind that you are a person who probably should be left and definitely that having an affair probably wasn’t a bad idea.”

    I guess this is me! Shortly after D day by non remorseful stbx spent a morning taunting me with insults. I realize now that he was stewing with anger that he got caught and I ruined his cakey little life he had going. After about a dozen really low blow insults I slapped him across the face. (not my proudest moment but it felt damn good!) He called 911 and then tried to tell them they didn’t need to come. 911 doesn’t operate that way so 3 squad cars and 5 officers showed up. After everything was explained to the police guess who was told to leave? That’s right! The Cheater had to leave.

    These types are delusional, narsiccistic, self-entitled. I feel sorry for the poor woman who is married to this guy. Can you imagine what her world must be like?

      • Yes, I know. I am not advocating the choice I made that day but to hear Jack call someone “low class, immature, and of low character” after the choices he made is definitely short sighted and ironic. I’d bet his wife made the same choice I did that day. He seems to have very strong emotions about it. The only one in my home lacking in class or character is the cheater.

        • It’s called goading. It’s one of their favorite pass-times. They goad you into bad behavior so they can talk about how bad your behavior is.

          Been there, done that.

  • I do not have enough middle fingers to give to the author of that guide, it was so jaw dropping it ventured into the comedic. Possibly my ex-wife wrote that?

  • I threw up in my mouth after reading his garbage. To think there is a Mrs. Jack Ass blogger living with him everyday . Wow. Poor thing. Here is hoping she escapes

    • I am so glad to read others remarks as when I was reading…, I kept doubting myself!! The guilt was setting in big time, as I’m trying to recover from a ” good marriage” of 30 yrs that recently had an affair.

      I get a lot of this bull from my hubby as he played the victim role from day 1, and has made me feel “30 yrs should speak for itself, as there are so many reason, that I just don’t understand.”

      I feel for his wife, unless of course she agrees w him, or she agrees the same rules apply to hubby….

    • I think we’re all assuming that Mrs. Jack Ass actually exists and that, if she does, she is still with him. Something tells me he might not be the beacon of truth he thinks he is.

  • He must be getting lots of traffic on his site. He came out of “retirement” to post a Chicago Black Hawks pic, and then removed it.

    Narcs . . . he won’t be able to stay quiet long. Kibbles! Kibbles! Yum!

  • When I read this post, I realized that I was in a “meh” place, finally. It made me laugh. It makes me more upset to read about the horror stories of chumps who want out and are struggling, who know what is best for themselves and their family but can’t figure out how to get out from under, who have children who are emotionally abused by their cheaters because chumps can’t get full custody—these stories make me angry. Jack is a pathetic guy. But very important to critique because his attitude and practice sets the environment for cheating. Jack is an enabler, he does not make me as sick as Elizabeth Gilbert who cheated as sport, but he enables her to be at all comprehensible in this culture. Not comprehensible here or in my world.

  • To summarize how to save a relationship/marriage from cheating the chump must do the following:

    1. Be patient while he continues to cheat with the affair partner until he can kick the “habit”.
    2. Don’t expect your partner to be 100% committed to you.
    3. Don’t get angry at them for cheating on you forgive instead.
    4. Never talk about the affair. That would just make them feel bad.
    5. Use only pretty happy words not angry words when addressing the cheating spouse.
    6. Blame yourself for the affair, after all you neglected their needs. Sure they may have neglected your
    needs too but don’t focus on that, it’s irrelevant.
    7. Don’t hover over them, give them space so they can continue to cheat.
    8. Shine up those tap shoes, and get ready to dance for your partner’s “love”.
    9. (See Number 4) especially to family and friends it’ll just make them feel bad and we don’t want that do
    we.
    10. Again don’t hover but act on early signs of infidelity.
    11. Do not speak ill of the other ow/om that will just make the wayward feel bad.
    12. (See Number 8)
    13. Don’t listen to other chumps that made it out they’re bitter, instead take advice from the cheaters
    instead because they are so full of clear, concise, and non-hypocritical advice.

    All this “well-meaning “advice equates the following to me: Shut up, eat this delicious shit sandwich, and be thankful for the privilege. Well I have a list too on how to recover from a cheating partner. It has fewer steps and is practically mind fuck free:

    1. Retire those dancing shoes.
    2. Go No contact.
    3. Surround yourself with supportive encouraging people.
    4. Be patient with yourself while healing.
    5. Forgive yourself.
    6. Go reclaim your life and live it full out.

  • I admit I can’t even get through this whole post CL. My eyes rolled so hard I think they may be damaged! I can’t imagine reading his whole diatribe! Plus I wouldn’t dream of going to his site and giving him a click on his “visit” meter. Cause, you know, I’m all out of kibble, and not just for my cheater, that goes for the rest of them too.

  • Interesting to see into the mind of a cheater and how they negate their character deficiencies and fully expect the faithful spouse to do the work of their repentance. According to Jack somehow the betrayed perpetrated their own betrayal.

    “Remember, they too have grievances against you and probably the underpinnings of why they sought love and understanding outside of the marriage.”

    So that’s why they cheated. Well I’ll be reeeeeeeal good from now on! Oh, and it’s not an excuse it’s a reason.

    “…it will be helpful to look at the marital relationship completely and be honest enough to understand that affairs rarely happen in a vacuum….”

    Yep. It’s hard to have an affair by yourself. You almost always have to have a partner and an affair partner. Very insightful.

    OK, I think Tracy is rubbing off on me now!

    What the hell is the purpose of Jack’s article? Seems like he’s rationalizing his own BS while disguising it as a poor excuse for a self-help guide for the betrayed to win the pick me dance. Can these people ever not mindfuck someone or themselves?

    At one point he says “two wrong doesn’t make a right.” But all throughout his article he is alluding that the betrayed somehow perpetrated their own betrayal. Does this guy hear himself?

    • I am so glad to read others comments as I felt very guilty reading. I kept hearing my hubby thinking, OMG! Maybe I was wrong… Ive been struggling as I was married 30 yrs, and he had an affair.

      Just doesn’t understand why I dont understand when he says,”doesn’t 30 yrs mean anyrhing?” Played the victim role from day 1, then the entitlement role…
      It was all about what he wasn’t getting… Did he ever stop to think, ” Hey, maybe I don’t make her happy, that’s why she not make me((him)) happy!!

      I feel for his wife, unless she agrees w his thinking, going both ways…

      I’m glad I wasn’t alone in my own minds thinking.

  • Omg! Thank you so much for the laughs guys!! I was reading the comments on his blog and felt so sick I had to stop mid sentence. But then I read the comments on here and LMAO!!! Chumps you are one FUNNY nation!!
    The humor on here is the biggest proof that we are mighty!
    That was so needed, love you all!!

    • Jedi hugs ichosetoswim! Laughter is always good when someone is so fucked up, he’s such a Jackass

  • We could all just save ourselves a lot of time by simply following these rules:

    1. To Cheater: One strike and you are out.
    2. Definition of a strike = proving by your behaviour that you are prepared to cross a boundary that is not acceptable to Chump.
    3. Chumps: make your decision based on what they do, not on what they say.

    I made the decision and followed through on a couple of chump situations without even allowing the Cheater to run their mouth at me. Their gaping disbelief was reward enough. I have come to enjoy my own sanctimonious smirk. All it takes is vigilence and spot checks. So cynical, but very efficient.

    Trust should be earned by good behaviour.

    • This is what my spouse doesn’t understand. He broke no contact with his whore at least 3 times that I know of… probably a lot more… he refuses to admit 2 of the 3- giving me lame excuses.. still swears she is a “friend” and will not own that the relationship is in appropriate.. even though he has known for months that this “friendship” was crossing a boundary for me, he went ahead and did it anyway. I am now supposed to “forgive” this… “shut up” about it, and believe he never had sex with her, despite the fact that he admits going to her apartment. Says they “watched TV”.

      Trust is earned. You have to earn trust by proving you understand what boundaries exist and honor them. There are gray areas in life and people do make “mistakes” but when they realize it, they don’t make excuses they take responsibility and take immediate actions to correct them. That is what mature people do.

      • I clearly recall my Cheater’s whiny voice saying “but why can’t I have a friend” when I calmly stated that we were finished because I had firm evidence he was screwing a colleague. It was about five minutes later that he stalked out with his nose in the air, saying “this is not the time or place to discuss this”, went to the office, I called a locksmith, and he never came in the house again.

        Sent his clothes in garbage bags to his office building reception desk, and a text saying he should bunk in with OW and not contact me again. Sure speeds up “chump recovery”. Heck, once they reveal their little red eyes and devil horns, why waste another minute mourning them? I went to the gym and did a kick ass workout, had a massage, and came home to my peaceful bed. Sure I cried on and off, but that was more about the kind of anger I would feel about being mugged, not losing love. There obviously was no love.

        The happy couple did their best to torment me for dismissing them as rubbish, but in the end, they lost their jobs, ended up in debt, and live a hand to mouth existence. Karma, they’re all yours.

        • Im happy you got out so easily! That is ideal, too bad my ex knew his rights and refused to leave the marital home, set me up for a DV charge and ultimately pulled a gun on me. So my divorce took a little longer and my psychological recovery is ongoing. If my ex had left like yours I would never even have found CL.

            • Newchumpatl–that’s no way to live, as you well know. Speed up the legal process and get the jerk out on the street, where he belongs. I’m sorry you’re living through that. Could you pretend to go all Jack-Nicholson-The Shining crazy on him and scare him away? When he comes home, you’re sharpening knives with a beatific smile on your face?

              • I found a bunch of his emails, reviews, etc, and just followed him around reading them. Offered to forward them on to friends, family, and clients, until he left. If you have the material, ready out loud to them. When they try to come back, mention how your therapist doesn’t think it’s a good idea and you don’t know how you will react. Most of us actually have PTSD from their fuckedupedness. Our reactions to further trauma can be very unpredictable… if their attorney brings up changing the locks, just reply that, yes- hypervigilence is a symptom.
                Be prepared to follow through. There is no room for sympathy/ empathy. It will destroy you if you give it room in your heart in the beginning. Feel no shame over their behavior! You will just wind up depressed and anxious while they screw you over.

    • One strike rule is a good rule because that’s all it takes for their true character to be revealed. And also, marriage isn’t baseball or any game for that matter.

      I divorced my cheating wife after just one strike and went no contact. She was bewildered because she fully expected me to do the pick me dance. It pissed her anger was my reward.

      • Michael

        Yes! It was always a game for the cheater. Once is enough. I went into extra innings with the same outcome. I finally divorced him. It’s a game stopper.

  • To hear this drivel from a cheater is one thing, I guess it’s to be expected, but the REALLY disappointing thing, at least for me was how many marriage counselors seem to spew this same type of awful, have no respect for yourself advice. The counselor we went to after discovery did this and it just did not work for me. I actually said one day-“so we’re all hear to placate his cheating so he feels better? That doesn’t work for me.”

    I guess there are some people who can eat the cheating shit sandwich. For me it was never going to be okay. I told my stbx that after I caught him and he actually said that when I told him cheating was a deal breaker ( this was before we got married) he thought I was just ‘being mean’ to him.

    So darn crazy.

    • Chumpalicious, my ex told me before we got married that the one thing he would never tolerate was cheating. I think that’s the reason I never, ever thought he would cheat. I trusted him completely.

      But now I look back at that statement and I think:
      1. he said he wouldn’t tolerate cheating, really meaning he wouldn’t tolerate me cheating.
      2. he never said he wouldn’t cheat, and of course he did.
      3. he blame shifted his cheating to me, saying a lot of the same things Jack did. But in his pre-marriage statement he in essence said ‘he would tolerate everything but cheating’.
      4. when I kicked his ass out, I proved I was the one who wouldn’t tolerate cheating.
      5. he wanted me to tolerate cheating by taking him back, forgiving him immediately, never mentioning it again, and allowing him to continue.

      It’s very interesting to see how everything is in their favor. True narc.

      • ByeByeCheater- I’m new to this site, but I’m amazed at how similar these cheaters stories often are. After Dday we tried counseling. My kids were young 9 and 12 and I desperately wanted the family together for them.

        My stbx was remorseful ( sort of ) for about a second. Then he wanted to move on and never talk about the affair again. This was after just a couple of months. Done with that, that’s over, moving on and if you talk about it again then we’re done.

        I could tell he was not very remorseful. The counselor kept telling me “Gee, he feels bad. He seems remorseful” This guy hadn’t known cheater for 16 years (then) like I had.

        Guess what? He kept in touch with GF #1 ( that I know of. She may have not been the first ) She even had the nerve to “favorite” one of my sons tweets. He was 15 at the time, knew nothing of her, and the affair was supposedly over. Now he’s on affair #2, dragging his heels on the divorce and refusing to leave the house.

        It’s very bizarre stuff, that’s for sure.

        • OMG!!! I wish we all could be friends and support each other. I am completely alone dealing w this mess. No family alive anymore, In- laws wanted me to turn my cheek, son is gone. All friends I did have, have moved on w their hubby’s to places they dreamed of going off to.

          All my hubby wants is to rebuild, told me today he doesn’t even know how to live w out me as we have grown up together, 30 yr marriage.

          He is remorseful now, but it was a long time coming… All I know, I hate my world.

          • We are friends, Eileen. That’s what the forums are for.
            You’re welcomeo speak at any time if you need support or a clue-by-4 to the head. You’re not alone!

          • Eileen: Lania is right; we are friends here. Go to the Private forums and ask for support whenever you need it. And just because your cheater is remorseful now doesn’t obligate you to say in an unhappy situation. You’ll probably be happier leaving (once the initial trauma is over).

            Some chumps have also posted in the forums about meet ups in their area for coffee or lunch, etc. Do that and see if anyone else is close to you.

            Hugs to you!

        • Chumpalicious, do whatever you can to live separately from him. It will do wonders for your peace of mind as you navigate the divorce process. The kids will be fine especially in the long run. Hugs to you!

      • Cheater said I can’t imagine if you ever did this to me. Divorcing him and knowing he is with a sociopath should open some windows

    • There’s two reasons why they placate the cheater:
      Number 1: Because if they taught what CL does – people would only need one counselling session, and that’s to tell the chump: “Nothing to work for here – run like hell”. They’d make no money that way, and of course they can’t have that.
      Number 2: Because I’d wager a guess that a good proportion of said counsellors are cheaters themselves, so they spout bullshit like the original post. They are literally incapable of seeing things from the chump perspective.

  • Jack writes, “Your spouse already knows that what they have been doing is wrong, even if they will not admit it to you. Pointing such things out over and over again . . . will usually only serve to push them away.” Then he proceeds to write nearly FOUR THOUSAND WORDS pointing out what the victims of cheating “have been doing wrong.”

    So, pointing out the hurtful choices of cheaters – stupid and destructive. Berating the victims – just swell.

    Got it.

    This guy is a hopeless fucking cockwomble.

  • If you can stomach what he writes, it’s a valuable resource, I think. I read some more posts, and he not only throws his own co cheater under the bus, but Other Women in general as well. It really is a fascinating thought process. The Married Man is the only hero/victim in his world.

  • You know what? Jack is right. It’s not healthy or realistic for a Betrayed Spouse to expect the affair to end completely, bludgeon the cheater with punishments and guilt, be “fidelity police”, etc. Who wants to be in that type of marriage?

    That’s why the correct action after cheating is almost always DIVORCE not reconciliation.

  • OMG. I never thought that anybody here would find this guy. I discovered this gem of a sub-human about a year ago–and wrote to him privately about my XH’s affair…the sex on the porch with my daughter sleeping upstairs…the blowjobs in the seat where he had to move my daughter’s carseat out of the way to make room…the secret COMPUTERS purchased…

    And his response? I wish I had kept the 3 emails from him. It was absolutely mind numbing. Essentially, he said that me telling everyone was BETRAYING MY XH’s TRUST, and that my first and only motivation should be…..wait for it….to PROTECT MY XH FROM PUBLIC HUMILIATION.

    After my XH publicly humiliated me. After former “friends” and colleagues knew about his fucking around before I found out, laughing behind my back. After I had to be humiliated in my GYN office, asking for HIV/Hepatitis/STD testing. After XH came home for YEARS and lied to my face, kissed me and our kids with that filthy mouth.

    Yeah. I need to have no other motivation than to protect his image. I told this guy that he made my day.

    I really did. I laughed heartily into a tape recorder, uploaded it for him and explained in my own voice….how he MADE MY DAY.

    Know why? He made me understand, without one iota of doubt—that I did the exact right thing in divorcing my asshole cheater. As soon as I heard “protect the liar”….the rest of the puzzle pieces slid into place.

    I told him….you just sealed my XHs fate, asshole. YOU DID THIS TO ONE OF YOUR OWN. YOU. You are now responsible for the divorce of one of your cohorts.

    He wailed and said that I had mistaken his advice. He said that I am a bad person. He said that all I want is revenge and that I don’t deserve a marriage to come home to, if I can’t be “the bigger person”.

    About two months after I did this….he “RETIRED” from his blog. I’m not saying that he did it because of anything I might have said or done…but he was RILED UP when he responded to my emails about what I was going to do to my husband….public humiliation, tell everyone in his family/my family/all friends….and to make it even a sweeter deal….allow others to publish the emails and pictures that were gathered in evidence (after the divorce was done).

    This guy is a psychopath. His only “fans” are cheaters. Imagine that. Cheaters wanting to be told that they’re not bad people.

    Tell that the people whose lives are CRUSHED—and sometimes not in just a “gee, I hurt your delicate feelings” sort of way. Tell that to the guy who had to paternity test his kids, the woman who now has cervical cancer because of STDs her “good guy” brought home, the spouse who finds $60,000 hidden credit card bills for hookers and hotels. And that’s BEFORE the divorce….we don’t need to go into the darkness than can happen when we call these assholes out.

    Saying “fuck this guy” is too good for him. This man needs to have consequences for once in his life. Real ones. He closed down his blog because he was hearing too much from the “I Ain’t Dancin’ For You No More” crowd and couldn’t take the heat.

    He’s nothing but a cowardly motherfucker.

    • SphinxMoth–that is so AWESOME that you laughed into a tape recorder and informed Jack that his response had sealed your X’s fate. You are mighty!

      • Tempest, it didn’t start out with that intention, but the drivel he wrote back after my first heartfelt attempt at trying to understand this from my XHs point of view (my X used to call that “recon”. knowing how the enemy thinks so that you can plan your strategy. I think Art of War covers it nicely, too)—was just too much.

        It took my breath away. Just like it did just now when I went ‘back there’ to re-read some of his bullshit.

        This is one of the blog posts that literally had me shaking:

        https://affairadvice.wordpress.com/2012/08/21/how-can-you-be-mad-at-your-ows-lies-when-you-were-in-a-relationship-based-on-lies/#more-1390

        HOW CAN YOU SAY I DESERVED TO BE LIED TO…..when I myself am lying? HOW DARE YOU. He even tells the questioner that he is “irritated” by her asking him such an impertinent question. The blogpost is the most egregious word salad I have ever seen.

        When I recorded the .wav file for him….he got openly antagonistic. In the first email he was very condescending…trying to tell me how I could be better and keep my husband at home. When I wasn’t buying it, that’s when he told me that I am not a good person for not protecting my cheater.

        When I sent the .wav—I never heard a peep from him again. I did look on his blog to see if he would post something about the crazy wife—maybe twisting it into “see!!! THIS is the crazy that drives the cheater away!!! IT’S ALL HER FAULT and I HAVE PROOF!”

        But, alas, no.

        Someone up top said it correctly—NPDs don’t stay hidden and silent for long, they have to have the limelight. Maybe wifey is getting boring again. Maybe the public-ness of a blog, beating his chest as to how wrong affairs really are cut into his side pieces of ass instead of what he probably thought would happen—that women would throw themselves at him and promise that they would not be like his bunny boiler girlfriend. Who knows. But here he is—back out of retirement with this truly obnoxious piece of tripe.

        I think wifey is breaking his rules, that’s why he’s back at it again. Liars and cheaters hate it when they are lied to and cheated on—maybe wifey felt turn about is fair play. Don’t wish it, but she has been around crazy for quite some time. And his “partially disabled Vet” routine is just vomit inducing. My brothers are both veterans and it besmirches their sacrifice to include this horrific piece of shit in their numbers.

        • …..For right or wrong, I was in an relationship with someone else. It was a relationship that I thought was built on mutual trust and total honesty, even if I had to tell mass lies in order to have the relationship at all……

          Holy mother of word salad.. he thinks a relationship with a side piece is based on mutual trust and honesty??? OMFG

          • OMFG INDEED!!! Based on truth and honesty! Ha! His royal shitness said to me and I quote “but sweetie I’ve made a commitment to the whore I have to see it through” meanwhile we are married 23 years. Gee no commitment there!

            • Mad Marie

              I can’t talk to you anymore because she wouldn’t like it. This is what the x told me after 41 years. I LIVE for the day I get this motherfucker OFF my health insurance. It WILL happen as a consequence. Smile.

    • Your situation, Sphinx, proves beyond all doubt that this guy is a raging sociopath and narc. Seriously – being all pissy because you did the correct thing in culling a fellow cheater? What, does he think all cheaters are his ‘brothers in arms’ or something, and sees a chump dealing justice to ‘one of his own’ as if its an extension of his own life? What a fucking nutjob.
      Once again, like I say to all nutjobs: GROW THE FUCK UP.
      We already knew he was a self-obsessed fuckwad but this clinches it.

  • I followed Jack’s advice and kept the punishment/revenge stage brief. by filing.

    F*** you, Jack. Your wife will be on Chumplady soon enough because, even if you don’t cheat again, you’re an emotionally abusive, empathy-bankrupt asshole.

    • Yes Tempest making it brief to save them from our vengeful punishing nature. We all know how crazy chumps can get. But I think you need to work on the sarcasm. And shhhh don’t tell anyone about the infidelity. Jack off might have a temper tantrum and cheat.

  • And THIS is why he so gallantly ended his 2-year affair:

    “If you read my first version of this blog, I also wrote in detail the terrible things my ex-Other Woman did to me merely because I wanted out. It was ugly. And here, as of March 2013 (when I last updated this entry), she’s still trying to contact me and/or take shots at me and my wife, although I haven’t responded to her in any way since September 2011. I found out she wasn’t who she said she was. She lied to me. In big ways. She did all she could to hurt me and my wife when I terminated things with her based on a D-day that she herself engineered. But that’s not why I went back to my wife. But she certainly has shown me that I made the right decision and averted a real disaster.”

    He got caught because OW got uppity and impatient….exposed him. Now he’s crying foul.

    Awwwwwwwwwww.

      • Talk about a fatal attraction, they get what they pick up and that is what I call consequences. The only consequences X got by me was that I divorced him.

        A friend told me that all my decisions. successes, or failures after I divorced him were my own. Consequently the same is true for the cheater.

        Lies only go so far in their next life with the OW. X told her he had to support ME Yet he expects her to support him from April through August. X sold her his dream of moving to florida yet he doesn’t claim income and can’t get financing for a loan. X convinced her I never gave him affection. Yet he is cheating on her. X uses every moment while she’s working to find new supply at the same casino where he met her whore is convinced he is a good guy and won’t cheat on her. Can’t wait until she gives up everything, moves to florida with him and figures out he has OW there also. That’s all on him.

        I on the other hand paid down my debt in a year and continue to support myself as I always have. I’m saving for a home and have moved on to a much better life. An honest authentic life.

        His words no longer control me anymore and I no longer love my abuser. That is my success.

        I thought my life was over
        It just began.
        I thought he broke me
        I got stronger with no contact
        I missed him
        I detoxed from his toxic actions.
        He has a pig
        I gained a life.

  • Good Lord, “Jack” sounds like my ex. The one good thing about his blog is that it reinforces why reconciliation is almost never successful — he is a prime example of the cheater mindset. Blame the chump, and do a mind fuck until up is down, right is wrong and black is white. Just reading that blog gave me a sick feeling inside, brought back how I felt towards the end of bogus reconciliation.

    • It brought back the crazy, circular conversations I used to have with my ex that made my head want to explode!

  • “The Most Common Mistakes Made By Betrayed Spouses in Recovering from an Affair, Abridged and Honest Version”:

    Stop expecting a Duck to bark. Ducks quack. Cheaters cheat, blame shift, and generally it’s all about them.

  • The worst part about this is some of it is good advice, however, warped into bullshit chump-shaming.

    Yeah, revenge affairs ARE bad ideas. But not because it’s “worse.” They’re bad ideas because two wrongs don’t make a right and it just fucks the situation further. It’s not giving the cheater a taste of their own medicine, it’s just dragging yourself down to their level.

    When demanding your spouse end an affair, no, you can’t really believe that it’s truly ended. But not because of some Speshul Conexsion Between Two Twu Wuvers. You can’t trust that it’s truly over because this is someone you just can’t trust. It’s not a good idea to ask if the affair is over and then just take the cheater’s word for it because they’ve demonstrated they are untrustworthy.

    Being a helicopter spouse is a bad idea, but not because it makes the cheater feel watched and like you can’t let it go. It doesn’t work because you end up just playing marriage police in a relationship where trust is dead.

    Also, trying to “woo” your spouse back and expecting immediate results. That’s not a good thing to do, not because you need “patience” or need to allow the cheater time to mourn the affair partner. It’s not a good thing to do because it’s the motherfucking “Pick Me” dance and it’s a waste of your time.

    This is what I really, really, REALLY hate about blogs like this “Jack” asshole’s. They can take pieces of advice that would otherwise be helpful to a chump and turn it into a vehicle for their own navel-gazing narcissism. Any one of the things I named above could have been used to help chumps get away from toxic marriages, IF he had actually used them in constructive ways. But no. Cheater that he is, “Jack” has to be a Jerk and twist what otherwise could be helpful to serve his own purpose.

  • Yeah, I noticed he had a lot of connections to his other blogs. I admit I couldn’t wade through his Swamp of Eternal Stench, but did anyone who did survive it notice if he alluded to the one big point: Get Your Divorce Before Fucking Other People!?

  • Whoops. What was I thinking. This is a Forgiveness Article. Sorry. Long morning. Donut overdose.

  • So…in order to reconcile the betrayed must keep everything inside. Don’t feel, don’t criticize, don’t judge, don’t be angry, don’t ask him where he’s been, don’t forget to protect his image, don’t ask for the truth. Admit you caused him to cheat even if he never told you he was unhappy about anything. Oh, and be understanding when he’s moping around after his affair partner. In other words, be a robot. Realize that it’s up to you to soothe his guilt for abusing you, because hey, it was your fault, even though he takes full responsibility.

  • O M G!!! This guys ‘logic’ gave me a headache. I couldn’t even finish reading it.. I hope a meteor from outer space strikes him and his computer, and that his Betrayed Spouse has a really big life insurance policy on him.

    • Sounds like Plan B. Either way, it’s your fault. lol I done wrong, but I am blameless 😉

  • into the mind of the crazy. i really believe that exhole thinks like this. unfortunately, they NEVER own up to the shit THEY do.

    yes, i had a gps tracker on his truck and yes, it was because i didnt trust him. BUT then again HOW could i trust him? he already got busted for cheating and doing things he shouldnt have that he lied about. so when i noticed that he was starting the same bullshit as before, what else was i to do? he started not coming home straight after work, now dont get me wrong. i am not a NAZI with curfews or anything like that. but when he should be home at 5 and doesnt get home until 7, AND all i asked was “why are you coming home late” in a curious tone (not angry, not attacking) and he BLOWS UP. he comes up with 3 different excuses and ends it with “if you dont trust me you can call my boss”, what else could i think. i only asked an innocent question, so now i am thinking why are you so mad about, why are there 3 different excuses so which one is it and why the fuck would i need to call your boss, who says that? i mean if i was late coming home after work and he asked me, it would be easy to answer without getting all upset and i would have ONE reason which would be THE reason i was late and i damn sure would not need my boss, my sister, my mom to cover for me.

    and yes i snooped thru his phone, BUT only when he started being weird with his phone in the first place. i probably would have never even wondered about it if he didnt start acting all suspicious. like when i ask to use his phone to call someone because i left mine inside (i am really bad with my phone, i never have it on me) and he starts questioning ME on why i need it, who do i need to call, why cant i use my phone, why do i need to use his phone. THEN before he gives it to me, he is frantically deleting shit off it and of course he hides it if i try to see what he is deleting. another time, he actually went to sleep with his phone underneath him. WHO DOES THAT? and WHY? so yeah, when he would jump in the shower at 4 am getting ready for work, i would sneak a look at his phone. damn, i am such a bitch huh.

    and yes, i really was not meeting his needs and i do believe that he was lonely and there was a communication problem. HOWEVER, first and foremost, i was depressed over my daughters passing. i actually was in a fog, i honestly do not remember the rest of the year 2012 (she past in march). and yes, i did spend a bunch of that time in my room, laying on my bed BUT i still did things. there was always food in the pantry, yes, he had to cook more then he used to. i still washed his clothes, he never went without clean undewear, the little boys were still being taking care of, i even enrolled them in sports and tik won do and the bills were getting paid. Secondly, a year later is when he started staying out all night, drinking more, hiding and sneaking around, not giving me money to help pay the bills, and withdrawing himself from the family. BUT it wasnt like i didnt TRY TO TALK TO HIM. i talked and talked that last year. i asked him over and over and over, what was wrong, what was he feeling, needing, wanting, thinking. what was i doing wrong and how could i fix it. i would word it and reword it. i kept reaching out to him only to be stone walled, blocked out, lied to, gas lighted, trickle truth and blamed. when i realized that we were not having sex as much, i made sure to correct that problem. i tried to make him feel needed, wanted, desired and appreciated. i not only thanked him for picking the slack that i had dropped, but i told everyone how lucky i was to have him. i made sure not to complain at the crap HE WASNT doing or the shit he did half ass. AND STILL he kept hiding. sneaking, lying, staying out and blaming me. i quit trying somewhere around novemberish/decemberish. i quit having sex with him after he kept looking at the online dating sites. i quit talking to him, and begging him after he kept going out every weekend and not coming home, i quit doing his laundry sometime at the end of the year when it became obvious that he didnt appreciate it. i quit chasing him down at all hours of the night, when i found him at his cousins house, and he didnt even stop talking to acknowledge that i was standing at the door and didnt look my way (ironically i also noticed the hood rat that was sitting next to him and SHE didnt even look at me either, yep, it turned out to be the OW). he did not introduce me to the people that were there, he was trying way too hard to look like he didnt care. maybe he really didnt, AND THEN after i went back at 4am and heard her singing or hmming thru the door, and it takes them a while to answer my knock and i hear feet running out the room before he opened the door, wearing his pants, and his tshirt and socks. i ask him who was here and he tells me his cousin. and i ask so why did she run away, and get more excuses…. what else was i suppose to do? he wasnt talking to me, his wife but he was telling just about everyone how i “didnt treat him right” but ya, it was my fault and i should own up to my part in the relationship that made him cheat, right?

    and yes, i am sure that i did some wrong things. i am sure i said some hateful things. BUT i really did love him and i kept trying to reach him. i completely believed we had a good marriage (despite all the shit he did, past and current) even with the “problems” we had. i continued to believe that our marriage was worth fighting for and worth trying to fix. there probably were things that i did to “push him away” but he had started pushing me away a long time before i pushed him.

    yes, i kicked him out. BUT that was after MONTHS of his bullshit, his lies, his drinking, his not coming home. and i was still wanting to fix our marriage. he doesnt own up to the shit he did that lead me to kicking him out. not at all. he just says that i kicked him out, it was my fault for kicking him out. he doesnt own up for the cheating and fucking miss oompa loompa, after all he only did that when we were separated. so it makes it ok because we were “broken up” of course he doesnt admit to spending time with her, talking to her, drinking with her and god knows what else BEFORE i kicked him out. apparently he doesnt remember that she was sitting next to him and was running off hiding that night i knocked on the door at 4am. nope that doesnt count. i am sure they were just sitting on the couch, fully clothed, and just “TALKING” because she was “Just a Friend”… HOW DARE I KICK HIM OUT!!!! if i honestly loved him i would have NEVER kicked him out in the first place, and it is all my fault, AND I SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT ALL THAT before i treated him so badly huh….

    i cant understand the ghetto mentally here. i can admit that i made mistakes, i can even admit to talking to other people outside my marriage but i never stopped loving him, and i never fucked someone else. these cheaters are so ready to point the fingers at us. but they NEVER own up to what they were doing, or saying or acting BEFORE we did what we did. much easier to say it was my fault because i kicked him out, then for him to explain that he was lying, cheating, not coming home and not paying bills. much easier to say that i “wasnt treating him right” then for him to admit that he “wasnt treating” ME right to begin with OR for him to admit ALL THE THINGS THAT I DID DO RIGHT…..

    accountability is beyond the way they think. i have it, he does not.

    • Ms. Vain… first.. I am so sorry to hear about your daughter. Losing a child is a terrible tragedy, a horrible thing to endure, and he should have BEEN THERE for you!!! Cut YOU some slack.

      Your story is like so many of our stories. I also neglected my H in some ways. I feel REALLY bad about it, I will regret it the rest of my days. I will learn from it.. but I never fucked someone else… put attention to someone else, or put someone else above him. Was I a little spread thin? YES. Were we a bit disconnected? Yes. But no more so that millions of other married people. He could have come to me and said.. let’s see a counselor, or let’s go on a date.. but instead, he retreated to the basement to “workout” for hours every single night.. probably talking to the whore. He never came to bed with me. He never spent time with me at all. I was THERE every night, wasn’t like I was out partying. Apparently this is my fault because I hate treadmills.. well, it is what it is. I was MORE than willing to work on my deficits.. the problem was, by the time he told me about them and I started dancing the “pick me” tango… he was already entrenched with the whore.

      So I was setup to lose. I am a beautiful woman, smart, capable, organized, get shit done.. but i can’t compare with a whore who has no kids, no husband (as I found out later), and nothing else to do but dispense kibbles. Put her in my place, wiping noses and asses, helping with homework, filling out endless school forms, dealing with kid activities, working a job, keeping the home straight, grocery shopping, meal planning, laundry, etc etc… and yeah, she wouldn’t be sparkly or into nightly Blow jobs either. She’d be tired as SHIT. That’s the thing… no wife, no matter how awesome, can compete with a fantasy whore relationship with no real responsibilities. And you know what? Mr. Jenny Craig can’t compete with a young unencumbered man either. That street goes two ways. They NEVER consider this. I wonder how he’ll feel when other men are barking up my tree? And don’t think they won’t be either!

      I haven’t done everything right in this process either.. I’ve made a bunch of mistakes.. no one hands you a manual.. here’s how you handle a cheating husband… you make it up as you go along and I said some bad things to him too.. did some stupid things.. yeah.. so sue me. But I never cheated on him.. better or worse, richer or poorer, sickness and health. I lived those vows.. I didn’t break them, and neither did YOU.

      Hang in there Ms. Vain.

      • Thanks newchumpatl. i think we all did the best that we could given what we had to work with. this guys article or blog or whatever just made me understand what it is like in the mind of a cheater. i think everything he said we all can identify with. AND I can even own up to some of the shit i did, i do find it funny (not funny haha, but funny strange) how they NEVER own up to the shit THEY do. even this guy in his blog doesnt say, i fucked up, i cheated and lied because i wanted to. OR i did really bad things that made my wife not trust me, believe me or feel secure in our relationship. it is all about HOW the betrayed spouse is suppose to own up to it (their cheating) and how we should fix it.

        i guess i lost my secret decoder ring that translated his answer for every question i asked “I dont know” into something intelligible that i would work with. AND apparently just asking your spouse “what is wrong, what can i do to fix it, what do you want out of life” are not good or direct enough questions to figure out the reason he is acting like a dickhead. i guess i shoulld have been asking some other kind of questions, or possibly i wasnt “suppose” to be asking questions at all. I should have worked HARDER at my mind reading technic so i could met his needs. AND God forbid i try to hold him ACCOUNTABLE for anything. funny how now his oompa loompa doesnt let him out of her site and THAT is ok, because she only has respect for him and loves him so much. of course when i did it, i didnt trust him and was “following” him. funny how she seems to always have his phone, answers his texts and even calls me but when i looked at his phone it was because i didnt respect his space, or his stuff or his privacy or something shit like that. go figure

        his MOW doesnt have any responsiblities either. she bailed on her marriage and her kids. she didnt have a job, didnt have a car, didnt have a house or apartment, living with this cousin or that cousin, who knows how she was eating or showering. but HEY she could stay up ALL NIGHT with him drinking and talking and making him feel better because his wife didnt understand him. so while stupid chump that i am was keeping the house and the children taking care of, washing his clothes, paying the bills…..SHE drank with him. and told him he was such a good man.

        fuck it. and fuck them. i am just not that type of person who can be like the oompa loompa. my children really do mean everything to me, i have to see them everyday and not just every 4 to 6 months. i really enjoy helping them with homework, making sure they shower and eat and talking to them every day. i cant help but to pay my bills. i know it is silly but if i owe money, then i feel it should be paid. and there is no way i could sponge off the goodness of others for any length of time. i have had to live with my sister for a while, but i contributed as much as possible and i left as soon as i could. i actually enjoy having my own house, fixing it for me and my kids and being able to do what i want when i want.

        since that is the type of woman he wants then she is welcome to him. i actually let her “win” the day i found out about her. SHE is the crazy who thinks there is a problem or is bringing all this drama. not letting him see his kids and so forth. i am just doing me and the boys and i am doing much much much better then i was a year ago.

        • There will always be those fly by their crotch other women out there. This I know. Mrs Vain your priorities are in the right place. Now you never have to justify being a good person to a cheater again. You get to be yourself as you move forward. I needed to stop giving him my power. What he thinks, says or does no longer matters. That’s right we no longer have to swallow another shit sandwich or accept responsibility for their disgusting low life behavior. This is a relief.

    • MrsVain, there is no reason this Jack the little shit eater should have you justifying anything. Fact, you are not alone in having your spouse cheat on you when you need them most. Jesus, your daughter died, for once you needed him to take care of you for a while and instead he left you to despair and had an affair. My ex did the same thing when I went into grief because my Mom died. These fuckers don’t reciprocate, if you aren’t catering to them they will go elsewhere and blame you for being depressed. Jedi hugs!

      • Datdamwuf. i know what you mean. i read somewhere on here, i forget who said it but cheaters live in the right now, they needs should be met immediately and they have no forward thinking. apparently they have no backward thinking either. all the shit i did for him in the 14.5 years we were together. i was the only person who stayed with him that long, including his parents who were in and out of his life growing up. but hell, who cares that i stuck by his side thru thick and thin, who cares that i not only bailed him out of jail but i boosted up his ego when he was feeling low i dont know HOW many times in the 14.5 years. it was ALL MY FAULT because i didnt make him “feel better” in 2013.

        like i said, i KNOW i messed up. i can own up to it, apologize for it and tried to make it better. AND i honestly and completely TRIED. The cheater just makes excuses, points the finger at the betrayed spouse and comes up with all kinds of crazy shit to JUSTIFY their actions.

        i dont want a man who can do that, i dont want a man who can bail on his wife and kids especially when i needed him the most. i dont want a man who can abandon his own flesh and blood or can forget all the good things i did for him. i dont want a man who i have to keep chasing after and reminding him how much i love him. that is why i let her “win”. she can have him. yes, it was the hardest thing i ever did in my life. yes, it hurt to let him go like crazy, more then his cheating hurt but i just cant live like that.

        Jedi hugs to you and everyone on this site that is hurting. i am almost to Meh, i can actually see it down the road from me.

        • Mrs Vain

          Why is it that when we need them the most they abandon us? You suffered the significant loss of your sweet daughter. I’m so sorry. How unbearable and heartbreaking this loss must be for you.

          Mrs Vain i will always remember how someone would bump into my mother and SHE would react by saying she was sorry. It used to drive me crazy. Mrs Vain someone didn’t bump into you, you were run over.

          I can’t imagine how you did all that you did while managing your grief.

          Know that you are mighty.

  • I’m reading JackAss a second time, and am convinced unpacking his post would require an entire dissertation. Two things pop out:

    “Understand, that at some level, in the immediate aftermath of an affair, your Wayward Spouse, while agreeing to marital reconciliation, may still be somewhat on the fence about your marriage. They need to be convinced too that the marriage can be saved.”

    Just so I can get this straight–a person cheats for TWO YEARS on a chump, and then the chump is supposed to convince the cheater to stay in the marriage? “Hey officer, I know I ran the red light and plowed down a pedestrian, but you should try to convince me to hand over my license & insurance card. Say ‘pretty please’!”

    The nice thing about fences is that if you sit on them too long, your privates start to hurt, and may fall off. Best just to push the f*cker over the fence into the biggest cow pie. It’s more humane.

    and,
    “Trying to convince your spouse that nobody will ever love him/her as much as you do. If your spouse is in an emotionally entangled affair, chances are good that he or she may already believe this is not true. It may even encourage an “I’ll show you I’m not such a loser” attitude. The reality is likely that their Affair Partner DID love them more than you did or showed and that’s why they were drawn to them — they felt more loved, desired, appreciated and understood by their Affair Partner than you.”

    Oh, my. Where to start? (perhaps with some commas, Jack). “I’ll show you I’m not a loser! By returning to the same skanky ho who was willing to blow me in the back seat of my car after I’d worked out at the gym and not showered! See? Who’s the loser now? huh? huh? You don’t know what love is.”

    • That’s the mentality that got me Tempest.. even had a marriage industrial complex counselor tell me this. That I needed to “woo” him back. So- I am at my LOWEST… my H has at the minimum made close “friends” with a schmoopie.. and i am supposed to WOO him back? I can’t hardly get out of bed. But I have to find my dancing shoes and feel all warm and fuzzy about it? YIKES.

      I actually tried to do it.. and it was a miserable failure.. you know why? Because desperate people aren’t attractive. It made me feel ugly, unwanted, horrible. Like a high school girl chasing a boy who doesn’t even like her. Even though I know logically I am none of those things. The pick me dance was humiliating. I wasn’t able to be “angry” to put any “pressure” on him.. poor sausage. Wasn’t able to express my feelings without upsetting him. I had to hold it all in. I even kept it from close family and friends a LONG time.. then finally I did tell a few.. I had to let it loose to SOMEONE. ONLY THEN was when I realized how ridiculous it was. Several friends hit me with 2x4s and thank GOD for those people. Told me.. newchumpatl.. you are NOT worthless. You are a beautiful girl.. for chrissakes.. he’s lucky to have you.

      • And you’ll soon be lucky NOT to have him.

        How painful to have your heart ripped out of you and you’re not even supposed to grimace. Sometimes 2 x 4s from friends are the best medicine.

    • the oompa loompa hood rat is welcome to the man who cheated, lied, betrayed and snuck around behind his wifes back. i know he looks all sparkley like that vampire from the twilight movie, but i know the real him. the sparkle will fade in a few years. if she wants a sparkley turd then she can have him. i want more out of my life then chasing a man to remind him of his responsibilities and living live from beer can to beer can.

  • In the end, I think staying or leaving a cheater — especially a know-it-all, “I-am-the-great-Oz” cheater — all comes down to what you think you’re worth.

    Self-worth — or lack of it — is what determines how to proceed. For me, when X brought up divorce the first time (I later found out it was because he had already found my perfect replacement), it felt as though he had kicked me in the ribs. I couldn’t breathe and I couldn’t move. After all those years of catering to him, suffering his passive aggressiveness, judgmental opinions and distorted thinking, here he was asking ME for a divorce! How would I survive?

    Ironically, the process of divorce made me realize that the combination of my own inertia, low opinion of myself and the fear of the unknown was at the root of my unhappiness all along. I wasted 20 years with an asshole because I fooled myself into believing it was honorable.

    So yeah, that’s on me.

    I knew two years in that I had married a phony, a man with a mask, a shell. To stay, I twisted our marriage vows into something that I decided was impossible to break. It never occurred to me that he had already broken them when he started treating me like an undesirable, unworthy, fat, ugly girl he snidely talked AT from his throne in his mancave, and then grudgingly fucked a few times a year when he got his drink on. It was humiliating.

    Still, I took it.

    Had I valued my worth fifteen years ago when he started to treat me like a “roommate wanted” ad respondent (you know, someone to split rent), or like domestic help, or how he lost jobs left and right that always threatened our financial security, and how he treated our kids like trophies or albatrosses depending on how they treated him, and how he ALWAYS put himself first, I would be so much father along in a genuine and happier life.

    Naturally, he used it against me in our divorce proceedings, but one of the actions I am most proud of is initiating the proceedings and filing for divorce from him. It pissed him off like I never could have predicted! Two years divorced and he still operates from a place of intimidation, harassment and fear. I admit there are times he still scares me, but it’s getting easier to dismiss his emails as old coot rants.

    Funny thing, when the curtain came down for good, all that was left was a small-minded, cold-hearted balding loser, still crying foul, because I demanded to be released from indentured servitude in his creepy castle.

    So long, Oz and good riddance.

  • Yep, yep, yep!!! EXH#1 cheated on me within the first 3 years of our marriage- I went full-on rage from the jump, then would switch to all lovey-dovey– he lost his job because he fucked a temp. employee, told me once that if I was going to leave, to leave right then- but I didn’t. I had no job, no money, and no one to take me in— a very long, sad summer indeed…he made the same statements like STBXH did- he felt “abandoned” because I took a job two 1/2 hours away, lived part-time with a friend, and made damn good money those 5 months that the job lasted…EVERYTHING Jack-Ass said not to do, I did, and he finally said, “Either get over it, or leave.” I forced myself to get over it because I had no where to go… 6 years later, surprise!!! He plotted and planned for months to leave me, finally announced his intentions on the phone and we were divorced three months later…

    Fast-forward 13 years later, and here I am again!!!

    The craziest part of my sad story is that for the last 13 years, my STBXH has ranted and railed against EXH#1- what a piece of shit he was to me, how he could never do me wrong the way EXH#1 did me, how awful EXH#1 is/was, etc. Yet, for all of his bullshit, he is doing me wrong 10 times worse than EXH#1 ever dreamed of doing me wrong…

    Jack-Ass can take his talk and shove it up his ass!!! If I want to be angry, damn it I will be!!!

    However, I have had time and opportunity over the last few weeks to spew out as many “zingers” at STBXH, as many venomous texts and comments to him as I could have- but, I got it out there and off my chest…now, I can be a silent storm to him- silent and cold, just like he has become to me!!!

  • Doesn’t Jack’s whole thing just boil down to; I’m special, everything I do is OK, you suck and everything you do is shitty. You made me cheat and you have to atone for that. Oh yeah, and it’s totally OK for me to lie, no one should ever lie to me, you know, cos I’m so special. his circular arguments were funny, then they gave me a headache. OTH, I heard most of those from Saddam at some point or another. The thing that didn’t make me laugh was how many times he said doing the thing HE doesn’t want done would “enrage” the cheater/him. Shutting people down with rage doesn’t always work, and people like him will escalate when it doesn’t.

    • Yeah, and Jack thinks people who suck, like chumps, must deserve all the pain Jack dishes out. Actually, he doesn’t think this, because he isn’t aware of all the pain he dished out. He doesn’t think he dished out pain. He thinks he is the victim, because BOTH the OW and the chump are now treating him harshly.

      Another take on this is that Jack is blameless because he can’t control others and he can’t control his response to the actions of others. He knew cheating was wrong, but he did not have the choice to say “No” because the OW was so much better at love than the chumpy spouse.

      Of course, that means Jack will do it again, because he basically admits he can’t control his actions. I think cheaters like to say “Love is not a choice.”

  • So Jack probably spent days writing and editing that piece and his advice to the chump could be summed up in one sentence:

    “Be a fucking doormat.”

    • It was 100% wrong for me to step in dog doo-doo then to wipe it on you, but I had dog poo-poo on my shoe, so be the best doormat you can be, because my shoes need cleaned and I’ll be very angry if you don’t help me clean off my shoes.

      And don’t keep telling me how I wiped dog poo on you or I’ll get even angrier. If you had kept my shoes cleaner on previous wipes, and scooped the poo in the back yard more often, then I probably wouldn’t have stepped in dog doo-doo in the first place.

  • And by the way, the biggest mistake a chump does during reconciliation is to even bother to reconcile. There are far better things to do in life. Like watching my toenails grow.

    • You got it Uniquelyme! Those last three years would have been much more productive if I had spent that time working on reconciling me with me instead of giving mouth-to-mouth to a marriage that, after I found out about OWhore number who knows, was DOA.

      • Seriously Chump Princess you are so right! I did the same thing for three years. It was the longest running “Weekend at Bernies” ever invented. I was dragging around my dead marriage and propping it up so everyone would think it was still alive.

        The truth of the matter is once a spouse has cheated, they kill the marriage and you can’t resurrect dead things. They stopped loving you the moment they made the decision to let someone else into their heart and bed. Filing for divorce is just the burial of what they already killed.

        It’s easier to grieve a properly buried marriage than to live with it’s corpse. Once the grieving is over, you have the chance to move on to something better. I would be four years closer to meh if I had only left in 2010 when I first found out. Live and learn I suppose.

  • I seriously don’t get why chumps are responsible for the choices their cheaters make. Acting like a bunch of kids in fully-grown bodies.

    • KoT – This is the illogical leap that some people make that I find so baffling, as well.

      If we have an argument, and one of us then starts throwing punches, it’s pretty obvious that while we are both at fault for arguing, one of us took things to an unacceptably irresponsible level by bringing violence into the equation.

      How then, the same people who would agree with that might also say that the marriage conditions (the “argument” between the cheater and chump) are responsible for the cheater committing adultery (the irresponsible, violent escalation) is beyond me.

      Thankfully, I I don’t find that these people are in the majority, but the ones I do run into just have me shaking my head and weeping for humanity…

  • What this jackass is saying pisses me off so much I couldn’t finish reading his stupid article. How’s this for a solution? Suppose he let his spouse get a free pass on cheating so he knows how it feels?? (NOT advocating that) But WTF????? And you know that every cheater who reads his bullshit is nodding his/her head in agreement and showing it to their betrayed spouse as hostage rules to live by. What a son of a bitch!!!!!

  • Just had a hilarious memory of stbx first Ho ( that I found out about) who actually told me after DDay that I was very” immature for not understanding their desire to remain friends and keep in contact” Fuckers.

  • This nonsense sounds a lot like the shit from my former marriage counsellor. Such a nut, actually called me out for being angry, called me a Harpy once for being upset at a decade of betrayal. Don’t we all want to buy into “if only I was better /hotter/smarter/thinner/whatever he wouldn’t have cheated.” Makes us feel like we have some control to stop it from happening again.

    The only control we have is our own two feet carrying us up and out the door!

    • OMG, Sad in Seattle, did you kick the counselor to the curb? Report him for ethics violations? He called someone in trauma a Harpy? Some people should not be therapists. I’ll stop there.

      • It was a woman, actually. Don’t think her attitude is all that unusual for a marriage counsellor trying to beat the Harpy out of a client whose narc husband is sitting there looking so innocent.

        I have some other gems from her for you to ponder over, ones that left me saying, “holy shit, I’ve read about this on Chump Lady but didn’t believe it actually happens!”

        1. She compared Wasband to a Holocaust survivor

        2. She explained to me that I should approach Wasband like a deer in the forest, slowly holding out my hand, to not frighten him with my feelings.

        I actually said out loud to her during the session after the Holocaust comment: “Is this really happening?”

  • Wait, so he’s saying that in his spineless mind, pussyfooting around not calling a spade a spade, not DEMANDING 100% loyalty or buggering the fuck off, is appropriate? And that you’re not allowed to get angry if someone betrays you in the most henious of ways, destroying everything you held dear and made your life a lie? I don’t see how cheaters ‘pay a huge price’ because they sure as hell didn’t give a fuck about consequences when they cheated, did they? I don’t forgive people who treat me like shit. Also, yes, revenge is great – calling someone out on their shit FOR WHAT IT IS is 100% appropriate and necessary. Problem is – you have to fucking tread on eggshells to not piss off the people who pissed on your entire relationship or you’re a ‘bad person’. Fuck it – they already think you’re a bad person by cheating on you. Also, the ‘don’t share it will enrage them’ tripe – what the fuck? You’re teaching people to be dishonest through non-disclosure?

    PS: The UBT could sum this entire trainwreck of an ‘article’ as “Its not what I did, its your reaction to it. Be spineless and cater to MY every whim, but the moment you start to do the exact same thing you’ll be labelled a demon from the bowels of hell”.

    What a fucking crock of shit. This worthless excuse of a human being who wrote this – has NO FUCKING IDEA about relationships and deceitful people in them. No fucking idea at all. Given that its written by a cheater, I’m not surprised one bit. They have zero chance of fucking empathy or self-introspection.
    Saying that chumps are at fault for the cheating? Fuck – they cheat behind our backs and give us NO KNOWLEDGE of what the fucking issues are! How can you possibly ‘fix an issue’ if you aren’t aware of that it is? In other words, its a crock of shit. Theres no ‘issues’ which cause people to cheat – its a character flaw on the cheater’s part.
    If you take the above – if someone doesn’t profess 100% loyalty, is transparent in their dealings with me (And yes, I will have ways to find out if you’re transparent), and being called out on their shit without narc-raging – you’re gone. Period. No turning back. If you don’t like it – you can piss off at square one. That being said though, cheating is a 100% dealbreaker with me, and I don’t give a fuck how ‘sorry’ you are – you weren’t sorry when you were fucking someone behind my back now were you?

  • Omg! This made me sick to my stomach and none of it makes sense! Weren’t me and my STBX in the same marriage – “I didn’t cheat!!!!” And If the truth be told I was always the much better spouse and if one of us was supposed to have cheated it should have me!

  • “Exposing the mugger to your friends, family, neighbors, coworkers. Threatening to expose the mugger’s mugging of you to everyone will only increase the mugger’s guilt and shame, and may enrage him/her. More people may know already who mugged you than you might realize. Some of them perhaps have even offered your mugger support or encouragement after the mugging. It will not keep your mugger from mugging. I see this suggested constantly on some muggers’ victims’ message boards and blogs — expose the mugger to every one. Frankly, this is more about retribution and shaming the mugger, and is likely to backfire. If my victim had exposed me to everyone as her mugger, I am quite sure I would’ve ended up in prison instead spending my victim’s money at Macy’s.”

    Taking this baboon’s logic to its logical conclusion, the above is what you get.

  • One day a long time ago, I was arguing with the ex about the Whore and he said something incredibly stupid regarding her “high morals.” I mean it was just off the charts STUPID. I literally thought ” this guy has lost his damn mind , I know this guy can’t think this slimy slut has “high morals.” I had a moment of clarity and realized he was not defending her, he was defending HIMSELF. If what she does is wrong, what he does is wrong, and vice versa. So when a Cheater expresses an opinion about another cheater they are actually talking about themselves.

    • Saddam told me on more than one occasion that his OW was a saint, the best line? “She’s a saint, she’s better than either one of us” Yeah, because saints fuck other people’s spouses all the time…

      • Datdamwuf, I truly believe they are possessed by Satan or something. Totally illogical. My story is that ex pursued a whore he knew about 20 years ago behind my back. He confessed, we reconciled. Then I continued to find evidence for some time that he was still affiliated with the Whore. They were friends, weren’t doing anything wrong, I was jealous, insecure, etc. You know the drill.

        During one conversation about this, he said she was a Good Person. Then this jewel : “She has the highest morals of ANYONE I KNOW!” I was stunned. She’s a slimy bar whore, even without fucking around with people’s husbands. So I said “I guess you are saying that cause she (allegedly) won’t fuck you?” He said yes. At that point, I just started laughing hysterically. I mean it was just too ridiculous. I told him “Just so you know, IF she’s not fucking you, it’s only because she doesn’t want to.” People with high morals don’t date other women’s husbands. I also told him she probably had a fuckbuddy of her own, or she was frigid . Otherwise she would have no issues with fucking him. Imbecile.

  • Holy SHIT! Bludgeoning him WOULD be exceedingly helpful! What a freak. I get the impression he’s writing the whole blog as instructions to his poor beaten down wife. May she find this site or something to get her away from this incredible asshole.

  • **slowly shaking my head from side to side, mouth open, puzzled look on my face***

    Un – fucking – believeable.

  • Don’t forget the by-far-most-common mistake that BSs make when reconciling with their WS: Reconciling!

  • I’m nauseated, to say the least. However, being the chump that I am, I’ll still say a prayer for MR. JACKASS and all cheaters alike:

    May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the crotch of the person who screws up your day and may their arms be too short to scratch.

    AMEN

  • I am of the opinion that every one of the cheater blogs and pro cheater sites from affair recovery to idiots like jack, are all trying to control betrayed spouses. The so called advice is always about behaviors, words and actions that make cheaters uncomfortable, so they go out of their way to try to control that behavior. Notcie when someone disagree with jack he devolves into projecting onto that person – she is a narcissistic bitter woman. So says the guy who cheated onhis wife.

  • What is Jack’s last name? Ass? Off?…let me guess..Dupp? Because he certainly is. I had to stop reading his blog because I was getting pissed off. He caused his wife unspeakable pain but barely mentions her. Its all about His Needs…His Feelings…His Self Esteem. Gag. What a diarrhea milkshake. Why she stayed with him I cant imagine.

  • Gonna have to say, confronting the other man who my wife engaged in an emotional affair with was perhaps the highlight of my year. It felt good, he was scared shitless of his wife finding out and now I own him. If I call, he
    beckons. When I told him to stop communicating with my wife or me Marine Corp PTSD may get the better of me and he’ll have to explain to his wife why his face was wrecked. He stopped communicating with her immediately. The icing on the cake is when I told my wife that not only did I conform her married little beta boyfriend, but I played her the audio. She may not have liked it, but I didn’t like getting betrayed, so there’s that. Cheat on me, be prepared to bend the knee and kiss the ring the rest of your life or pack a bag and hit the road. There’s no in-between.

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