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UBT: “Affairs are about opportunity.”

opportunityNearly every day someone refers someone to Chump Lady on Reddit. (Thank you, whoever you are.) Sometimes I check the link backs and read the threads, and invariably some Unicorn comes on and in expert tones (my guess, someone who has never been chumped) shares the nugget that “Affairs are about opportunity.”

Really? Why on earth is this the accepted “wisdom”? Yeah, affairs are about opportunity, the way bank robberies are about Thursdays.

Let’s UBT this, shall we?

If affairs are about opportunity, (and not lousy character) all it takes to stop affairs is to prevent people from having the opportunities to commit them.

Ergo, chumps need to fortify their defenses. Don’t let your partner around Pretty People! Keep him on a tight leash! Is she really visiting her mother this weekend? What are you going to DO ABOUT THAT?

Opportunity might present itself! Quick! To the key loggers! Get me a voice-activated recorder stat! We need to monitor the situation for all signs of Opportunity!

If affairs are about opportunity (and not lousy character), then people are just as faithful as their options. Meaning, you better make yourself a palatable option there, Chump-o. What if there were the opportunity to trade up for someone better? You’d better be better! Dust off the pick me dance shoes.

Of course, as winsome as you strive to be, you can’t be someone different. You lack novelty. So, hey, why don’t you open up your marriage? Or, conversely, resort to option 1 — marriage police.

If affairs are about opportunity (and not lousy character), then affairs are things that Just Happen. Opportunity can smile on anyone. Even you there. Why, you could succumb to an affair as easily as your cheater! Because the only thing that distinguishes us from them is opportunity.

Hey, Reddit Unicorns — affairs are about entitlement. When you feel entitled to cheat, you create those “opportunities” and take advantage of them.

Every day we are presented with choices that test our character. Anyone can get laid if they want to (especially if they’re not discriminating). Chumps don’t lack opportunity. We lack douchebaggery.

 

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    • Exactly. If affairs are about opportunity, we all would have had dozens of them, surely? Or at least a few.

      In general, I’ve noticed that shitty people who lack morals seem to think that everyone else is just like them. So maybe that’s where this “opportunity” misconception comes from? Or that’s what helps them sleep at night, thinking that “anyone would do what I did, given the opportunity.” Meanwhile, I think that most of us with good morals realize that there are shitty people out there who are simply not like us. (We just didn’t didn’t realize we were in love with one of those people.)

      • “In general, I’ve noticed that shitty people who lack morals seem to think that everyone else is just like them.” Which is probably why I am not alone in the scenario where cheater tries to be Hector Projector me and say things like “you could have been having an affair at work.” or “Don’t act like you’re innocent.” or “What about that friend you had dinner with?” Some how I point out his cheating and every public meeting I’ve ever had comes under scrutiny.

        I’m sure CN has a million examples.

      • I’m a teacher from way back and I can’t help but correct the phrase by adding to it an extension; “Affairs are about opportunity to a __________ (insert whatever descriptor suits your cheater, fucktard, jackass, two-timing whore, ignorant dickwad, wanker).”

        Perhaps the phrase could be written as a multi-choice.

      • I agree that cheaters may justify their actions by claiming to believe that anyone would do what they did. I think I was just very naive because I really didn’t believe that there were bad people in real life or certainly that I was married to one. It took going through this hell for me to finally believe and understand that some people just don’t think the same way I do. I can now trust that she sucks, but it took me a long time of trying to figure out what I did wrong to make her cheat and lie. I really wonder why that is? Maybe I still need to untangle my own skein.

        • “I think I was just very naive because I really didn’t believe that there were bad people in real life or certainly that I was married to one.” Yes, this! I naively thought that most people had everyone else’s best interest at heart. Finally realizing that I was married to someone who didn’t truly care about me or his children, or anyone really, except himself, was an eye-opener to say the least.

          • I think that’s what makes us chumps. We are trusting, naive, good hearted people and we think everyone else is just like us. We project our good like cheaters project their bad because that is our inner reality. I’m proud to be that kind of person. I’m wiser now and I have lost that innocence but I would happily go back to being naive if I could. Ignorance is bliss as long as no one takes advantage of us.

            • Spartan life coach has some interesting things to say about this. He doesn’t like the term narc-magnet, but does acknowledge that they tend to go for conscientious people. I think that is one of the headfucks of it all – cheaters do what we NEVER could.

              • I’m reading the book “codependent no more” by Melody Beattie, I never want to end up with a narc again and supposedly Narcs and codependents go hand in hand. So until I’m convinced I’m completely healthy in body, mind and soul, I’m staying the hell under the radar. LOL

                I found an audiobook for that book on youtube as well for anyone interested:

          • Once one enters the realm of infidelity research, it , invariably, leads to learning about the Cluster B disorders. And, once you start looking into them, you are amazed at the wiring in some people’s heads.
            I think realizing there are people like this in the world ( and a fair number of them) is very difficult for a non disordered person to grasp. We keep trying to find logic or empathy in them that is not there. It is hard to accept that there are these folks who have no sense of fair play and no remorse about doing the things they do.
            Several of my friends who have been through this still hold out hope that, one day, they will get an apology and an acknowledgement of their pain from the cheater. But, these folks just do not operate like that. They leave a trail of pain and destruction.

            • My sentiments exactly…. and we had the lousy luck to pick one of those deceptive little f***ers….

              • Sometimes it just sucks to be a ‘normal’ nice person. 25 years ago my STBXh SA cheater, told me that he had cheated because there was so much ‘OPPORTUNITY’ with his job…….he was a deputy sheriff! I didn’t know then what I know now, I should have RAN for the hills. As it turns out our whole 31 yr marriage had nothing but that darn opportunity that wouldn’t quit knocking and knocking. So annoying, I hate it when opportunity makes you cheat, & ruin your life, your wife and kids. Funny how I heard that line many times by the cheater himself

            • Interestingly, learning about narcs and other disordered people saved me the other day when I was able to spot a potentially dangerous conman in a class that I was teaching. After several strange incidents where he blamed other students for his obvious mediocrity, I asked the university to do a criminal search on him based mostly on my instinct. Sure enough, he was a conman, wanted in several states. He got expelled from the university and now they are going to press charges against him for fraud (he was using the university´s name ). Thank you CL and Chump nation for everything I have learned from you!

              • #1 predictor of who will cheat: whether a person blames others (whether it is blaming others for their own errors, blaming others for random events, or blaming others for ordinary things–mine blamed me for the dogs whining at us to play in the evening. Apparently, I “pampered them too much.” Now I pamper them all the time because they are more loyal than X was.)

            • Arnold…spot on! When my son came in for his face to face with his father after DDay, he told me he said to him “Dad, you are SO screwed up. Your values, morals and view of life based on what you have ALL DONE isn’t any thing like mine!! What is wrong with you??!!” Little did we know who he really is. Sixteen months into my journey of therapy AND research, HE is everywhere on these forums, threads and information on the disordered. It is often called a Mind**** here in the Nation and IT IS EVERY BIT of that and more!!!

              • Wish my adult son and daughter had it in them to call sad sausage out like this. Very mature son you have.

              • Your son is mighty for calling him on his lack of morals. My children are don’t confront him. They just stay away.

              • My son called the ex a coward to me but he would never say it to his face. His father would definitely disown him if he did. They unfortunately are tied to these disordered crap heads by their DNA. I know how my son really feels and I felt good that his morals mirrored my own rather than his dad’s.

              • My sons 28 and 18 have both told me on 2 separate occassions each that they had lost respect for their father, but they love him because he is their dad, “and Mom, sometimes you were mean to him”. (Gee, with all the lying, gaslighting, lawsuits for his business – I wonder why I would be mad at him?) But they would never say that they had lost respect for him to his face, and continue to communicate with him. My youngest met Schmoopie because Dad says they have already been together 2 years (um, so that last Christmas our “happy family” was BS because he was already with her?) Why don’t my kids call bullshit? I just can’t understand that. Is it just that they are male?

            • Arnold,

              Doing the research on Cluster B’s (initially, not for infidelity – however, I realised with the research that I probably was cheated on more than I initially knew) is what led me here – and it seriously opened the door to hell itself.
              However, its a hell that I’m very, VERY well equipped to deal with now, and are glad that I know what it involves. No rose coloured glasses anymore!

          • The same thing occurred to me DramaFreeMe. There must be some psychological term for it. But yeah, I also believe cheaters view of the world through a cynical lens, just as chumps tend to view the world from a more hopeful and idealistic lens.

          • Ugh, I’m untangling my own skein – why I put up with this crazy shit for way too long. I now have boundaries that make many shudder – or run!! – but it’s okay. I am not an island, just an island with rules.

        • Probably because you are a good person and therefore tried to see if there was anything for which you could take responsibility because you realize that no one is perfect. If no one is perfect, then you must have done something wrong…to a good, empathetic way of thinking.

          I was fortunate in that mine happened not even a year after we got married and I concluded immediately that it was impossible that in that timeframe I could have done anything so wrong to my ex that her only recourse was an affair.

          It’s not you, Twins Dad.

          However, I will say that I was not perfect in my relationship, and there were numerous things that I need to work on in general so that I can be a better person and a better relationship partner in the future.

          I just know that none of it equaled an affair.

          • I agree with Tony, Twins Dad. It’s not you at all. Like Tony, I discovered the cheating about 5 months into my marriage to my now-ex. Unlike Tony, my self-esteem was not as healthy. I beat myself up, did the both the pretzel and pick me dance, because, somehow, I believed there was something inherently wrong with me to cause him to cheat, and so quickly. A painful holding pattern ensued – trying to figure out him, trying to figure out myself, becoming a classic Amazon Chump in the process, begging for MC which never happened. I ran the gamut, that is, until I came across hard-core evidence and connected those dots: he was cheating all along – through the courtship, engagement, and into the marriage. Aha! He wanted the security and respectability of being married (read: cover-wife). However, his secret, sordid life is what he coveted and protected the most. In other words: Cake. Yummy Cake in abundance for him. His disordered behavior ramped up, I had a meltdown, and I was tired of being the marriage police. I discreetly lined up my ducks as much as I could. Almost 15 months after the wedding, I was gone.

            The only thing you can be guilty of is being a Chump, and there is no shame in that. I know this has been said before, but for the newly-chumped: Chumps = kind, caring, compassionate, empathetic, generous, lovely people. Those are great qualities, representative of the best of humanity. And, as Chumps, there’s a tendency to believe that most everyone else is like that too (unless it’s obvious that certain people are bad – like axe murderers and terrorists). However, it also leaves Chumps vulnerable to those that don’t possess those qualities, but usually do a damn good job of mimicking them, until they manipulate you where they want you. Sadly, monsters don’t always look like monsters (at least in the beginning). However, the good news is that Chump Nation is a beacon of hope and support for those who have been played.

            • Boudica Reborn, how well said! Thank you. You really touched on that aspect of chumps that makes it so hard to get to “trust that they suck” because we generally do believe the best in people. This is one of the hardest journeys of my life.

          • Well said, Tony. Very succinctly describes what i now call the ‘mindfuck’.

            My relationship was 27 years, so my many human flaws surely came to the surface. Unfortunately, XH gaslit and blameshifted last 4 years during his affair – and in hindsight during other parts of marriage. i did not find Chump Lady until 1 year ago. Soooo…lots of unnecessary suffering until then.

            XH cheated because he is a cheater, he is selfish, and he is. not. normal.

            • I just cannot get my head around it all. How do you conduct a second relationship, lie in post-coital bliss in the arms of your AP in your wife’s bed, and not feel empty and guilty? How can you be completely happy at that moment, with what you are doing? I would feel dirty, disconnected, hollow.

              If anyone can help me out on this…

              • Oh Patsy, I get it. It is really the most unbelievable thing that can happen. CN is what gets me through each day. Keep reading, keep talking about it. What you feel is real and I’m going to admit, there are still times when I think that he must have a seed of remorse, a dot of guilt, a speck of regret. My hardest challenge is getting rid of those micro beliefs about him because he really has none of those things. A year ago, when I first accessed CN, someone very eloquently said (forgive me for not giving credit, please speak up if it was you) that you share your life, your body, your resources, you have children, you trust, you reveal the deepest parts of yourself and then they do this. It is very sad. (And whoever said that, please forgive the paraphrase and please let me thank you because that expression affected me deeply in bringing me to understanding the gravity of ex’s behavior). Love you CN and CL, my lifesavers.

          • I caught my ex less than two months after we got married. Yep. No good reason there. Cheated for the 1.5 years we were engaged too. And for the four months he was encouraging me to get pregnant. #Douchebag #Yourreasonsareinvalid

            We can only see in another what we know in ourselves. I’m not a duplicitous douchebag vampire who sucks out souls through people’s assholes. Hence the inability to predict such purely terrible behavior. No, wait, vampire is not a fair term because those were supposedly human once. I don’t think my ex ever qualified for that distinction.

            • X started while we were dating. We dTed for 5 years befor getting married. He cheated the whole time and as Tempest said he was never to blame. Everything was someone else’s fault.
              It never ended.

        • >some people just don’t think the same way I do<

          Ain't it the truth! I once worked at a bowling alley bar, and one of our wealthier customers propositioned me. I laughed it off, but an older bartender yanked me to one side and hissed "He's serious, you know!" looking at me like I was nuts when I said "I don't care!" and we just stared at each other, and i could see she was just as appalled at me as I was at her!

        • Before Chump Lady, I really thought I had a role in his cheating because all those BS reconciliation books and site promote that agenda. I now know that there was nothing, absolutely nothing, I could have done to prevent his cheating. Divorce was inevitable from the get go.

          • That’s the benefit of catching your very straight husband on craigslist looking for dudes to blow him…. I knew it was an accelaration of behavior, not a repression of his true sexuality so I instantly knew he was a “sex addict” without even knowing much about it. There was no confusion about who’s issue it was. I found the Married to a sex addict site which refered me to ChumpLady. I was pretty secure in the notion that it wasn’t about me but thank goodness for the tell it like it is explanation of cheating and intro to PD’s here. I think finding both sites was effing brilliant luck considering all the muck out there.

    • You too, eh? I look back and think, ‘Damn, all that penis I passed up and meanwhile the idiot was passing his to anyone who looked like they might have a vagina.’

    • I sent a good number of flirty married guys back to their wives during my marriage, including a few who were better-looking and more attentive than XH. Lots of opportunity, lots of knocking. Only a few Jehovah’s witnesses.

      When I told XH after D-day about all the “strange” I’d declined over the years, he rolled his eyes and said, “R-i-i-g-h-t,” like I was lying. Not, “Thanks for being faithful,” or “I’m glad our kids have my DNA,” but an annoyed eye roll. As if he was too fabulous to be cheated on. Oddly, for our entire relationship, I thought he was.

      Ah, character. It CAN be dull at times, but it makes for a much better night’s sleep…

      • My X had only a few close friends. Well when those “friends” had opportunities with me, they definitely tried. Even if it was just a look and demeanor. And these were “loving” husbands; middle, and upper class.

        One even came out and propositioned me.

        It made me sick.

        But it tracks with something that I’ve read, and what I was told recently by a male friend. It IS about opportunity. Generally speaking, men (my friend tells me) are taught by their dads and/or mentors growing up that you need to get as much p*ssy as you can. And if you aren’t taught that outright – if you cheat you get a wink. My friend’s circle of family and friends (and it’s pretty big) was taught that you were to have a “good woman” as your wife, but that you troll for meaningless pussy. It was all about opportunity, and another punch on your *manly* ticket.

        There has to be exceptions to the rule – but – in my experience, when a guy is presented with a golden opportunity to get it? He Will.

        • on the hill

          This is a pretty old school perspective, and as a man from the South, I can tell you unfortunately I believe it is too often true.

          I think the mindset is that a real man can manage to have this much going on in his life and be this desirable.

        • My dad sure as heck never taught my brothers this. I’m sure this does happen sometimes but there are men and families of men with integrity out there. I think it is unfair to assume all men do this.

          • I don’t think all of them do, but there are a fairly large number who believe that its ok as long as you take care of home and don’t get caught.

            • It is a 1950’s mindset that unfortunately still exists. I know that in my next serious relationship their family will be a potential deal breaker.

              • My STBXH went on a fishing trip with our daughters husband, he asked SIL (son inlaw) if he ever cheated on OUR DAUGHTER with one of her friends that seemed kinda clingy around him, SIL said no, never and STBXH said, “look you can tell me, I won’t say anything, It’s the GUY CODE”!!! My SIL told my daughter this story and she recently told me about it because of what’s happened in my life. What kind of a Father asks his daughters husband that question to begin with? wouldn’t most Father’s tell a SIL that if you ever screw around and hurt my daughter I’ll beat the hell out of you? I was just sick to learn this.

              • Kate50 – that’s disgusting – My ex is creepy like that too. I don’t even think I can put it into words, but it’s gross.

        • None of my friends or brothers hold these beliefs, but I do see some guys that do. As a matter of fact, I see plenty of women that are trolling constantly as well.
          It is not about gender. some studies show that women in the 25-45 demographic are cheating more than men.

          • Oh sure there are plenty of women who are cheaters too. I know my friends and I don’t have girl code for it. We are disgusted by it and would never support a friend who was cheating. She would be tossed out of our group unless she got her crap together. I found out this year that my cousin had cheated on her husband. I instantly threw away her Christmas card and decided she is no longer in my life.

      • During false reconciliation ex told me about all the women who flirted with him, even passing him phone numbers as conferences (still claiming nothing ever happened, but it is one reason why he did not like to attend them; in hindsight, hmmmm).
        He could not believe no one had ever flirted/made offers to me.
        Nope, no one ever propositioned me, and in my entire life, no one has every offered me drugs.

        • Because people with morals give off vibes that they are not for hire; people may have been interested in you but never made advances because you conveyed integrity. Your X–not so much. Serial cheaters give off pheromones indicating their constant sexual availability.

          • I completely agree Tempest. If I sat down and thought about the people I know, I could probably tell you exactly who could be a cheater and who couldn’t. They do give off certain vibes….and it feels evil to me.

          • “Serial cheaters give off pheromones indicating their constant sexual availability.”

            Yes, butt pheromones.

        • My ex also told me that I should congratulate him for all the opportunities he gave up. And when I said, I only had one direct “opportunity” when an old boyfriend tried to kiss me after we went out for dinner because I hadn`t seen him for years, but I turned my head because I immediately had a flash before my eyes that if I kissed him (or more), I could not look my kids and husband in the face the next day. I did this while I was super-attracted to him because my husband was being an asshole at that time and this guy was way more handsome and smarter than he is. Do I regret it? No, because I could always look him in the face and talk truthfully when I said that I could of had many opportunities but I was not looking for them, and the only one that was literally in my face after 15 years of marriage I rejected instinctively. So, I agree, it is about character and not opportunity. You have to be an opportunist to make it about opportunity.

        • Yes, it is an old perspective (my friend is in his late 60s). And yes the attitude they were taught, he says, was that they did whatever was needed for their wives and families – but always had “a little something going on, over here…it was never about ‘her’ (meaning the wife)”.

          It is also explained this way in Steve Harvey’s book, (Act Like a Woman, But Think Like a Man). I think that’s the name of it.

          I believe the perspective is still alive and well today unfortunately – although I don’t paint men in general with this brush.

          I also believe that nowadays, a LOT more women are into cheating than before. Women’s Lib had its bad side too.

    • Chumplady, speaks in expert tones too. Being chumped doesn’t make one an expert. It just makes them a sad victim of being too trusting. Sometimes she’s on target, sometimes not.

      When it comes to cheating. Opportunity is important too. I am not pretending to be expert at anything. Just sayin’.

      I have a belly and a jelly roll over my belt and Frizzy brown hair and I am about the same age as chumplady. I am 63. I do not have anyone coming on to me. I therefore do not have opportunity to cheat or even be tempted or tested. I am not sure what I would have done had I received a lot of offers.

      My husband was constantly tested by young women who found his income attractive and were hoping for job opportunities. He was hit on daily. I earn a lot of money but I am not attractive and young guys don’t come on to me.

      So, sadly opportunity is definitely an important factor.

      I blame my husband for taking the bait but maybe Chumplady needs to focus some more attention on slutty young women who go after older guys as a way to get money or to get ahead. In some blogs she seems to be making excuses for them. It seems to be more common today then when I was younger. Back in my day, sluts were shamed and shunned. Not so today. Today they are admired.

      One young women went into my husband’s office and bent over and lifted her skirt to show him her fancy underwear.

      This was after we were in reconciliation, and he had a go pro in his office. He showed me the video. His reaction was to immediately open the office door that SHE had closed and walk out.

      But really, if some young good looking guys were always whipping out their nether parts and offering it up no strings, I can see how I might be tempted. I just don’t seem to have anyone tempting me.

      • Andi, you’re not “about the same age” as me. I’m 48.

        As for making excuses for OW? I don’t. But you’ve come to the wrong blog (try the reconciliation forums elsewhere) if you expect to read the whole Predatory Affair Partner schtick. Chumps don’t make cheaters cheat. And neither do affair partners. Cheating is a CHOICE, based in entitlement.

      • Andi: Just curious how one sets up a proxy server?

        A few points: First, Chumplady is not 63. Second, she is ALWAYS on target; I have access to research on cheaters, cheater dynamics, and qualities of chumps. There is not a single thing CL has recommended that is wrong, based on the research.

        Thirdly, cheating requires opportunity, but people with poor sexual and personal morals will always seek out opportunity the way rats sniff out trash. Those of us with morals do not act on sexual impulses, even when nether parts are offered up with no strings.

        Hope that clears up things for you.

        • Holy batman Tempest, I am using a proxy. I always use one. Not using a proxy to surf the net is a lot like a cheater who doesn’t where a condom. I never ride the internet bareback, and neither should you.

          Anyway, I am certain I will get flamed.

          But Tempest isn’t your post speaking in “expert tones”

          Some here act as if women never cheat. Arnold is right. There are lots of slutty women out their. Too many. My wife included.

          Anyway, I doubt this post will make it because I refuse to surf bareback. I think she must be accusing a lot of people of being trolls who are not trolls. That’s sad and kind of weird. The other poster she called a troll did not seem like troll to me. She seemed like a gal with a legitimate intelligent point. But those who speak in expert tones often are insulted by those who disagree.

          • or, I’m just insulted by ignorance and people who come here to mock others in pain.

            And everyone here admits women can be cheaters, too.

            • Better every day- I don’t know whose website you’ve been on but nobody here acts like women never cheat. The exhole in my life cheated with a married other woman. He wasn’t having sex with himself because that wouldn’t have bothered me.

              Most cheating men are cheating with someone and a lot of the times it’s another woman (sometimes it is men) and a lot of the times that woman is married and no one here likes that.

              That being said, the other woman who slept with the ex didn’t hold a gun to his head. He did it (and her) very willingly. I held him more responsible than her because I married the jerk.

              As for trolls-proxy IP troll or not ( I certainly wouldn’t be able to tell) I can always tell by their tone. Andi is a troll. If some random guy was showing off his junk for me, the absolute last thing I would feel is temptation. I think most chumps here (male and female) would feel the same way.

              Opportunity arises for most everyone. Entitlement and bad character is what makes a cheater act..

      • You could say the same thing about money. If day in and day out I handled a lot of money, would I be tempted to pocked a few bills here and a few bills there? Oh yes, probably everyday. I might try to justify it as saying no one will really miss ten dollars out of the hundreds I am dealing with. I do not deal with hundreds of dollars a day so I don’t have that strong of a temptation.

        But here’s the thing, that doesn’t mean if I was given that job I would steal. Stealing is still an action, a decision I make.

        • That’s a really good way to explain an opportunity and it always comes down to right from wrong doesn’t it in the end?

      • Undeniably there are lots of women scumballs out there who show off the goods in search of a married man willing to stick it to them. Those women, just like the married men who take them up on their proposition, are filth. Their actions don’t excuse the married men who fuck them. Nor do the unfortunate husbands of these women (if they are married) drive them to fuck other men.

        Disordered is disordered.

      • I’m so sorry your husband was a sad victim of availing himself when opportunity knocked on his office door.

    • When I asked sobbing “WHY?”, he answered “BECAUSE I CAN”…I was SHOCKED! I’m still trying to make sense of this answer an explain it to myself “opportunity does not mean character”…he “can” because of his “character” not because “opportunity”…so I guess he was right when he also said: “you would, if you could”…

  • You know what causes rape? Opportunity!

    That’s right, if you were raped, it’s because you gave someone the opportunity to rape you. You were drunk or wearing something provocative or got on the late night bus. The only way to stop rape is to make sure opportunities never arise! That’s right! It’s not society’s job to change how rape is viewed. It is not the rapists’ duty to restrain themselves. It’s your responsibility to make sure the opportunity never appears. Never address someone of the opposite gender. Always be accompanied by a member of your family. Cover everything from head to toe. Were you still raped? I guess you didn’t work hard enough.

    Remember, your rapist is not to blame. After all, if you had the opportunity you might raped someone. Who can say if they are a rapist or not until they are presented with the opportunity? Did you have the opportunity and refuse? Well whose to say that you’ll refuse next time? Or the time after that? As long as there are opportunities you might at any moment take advantage of that and become a rapist. No, the only way to stop it is to either accept that for some people consensual sex is unnatural or block all opportunity.

    Remember, only lack or opportunity can stop rape!

  • I’ve given you a shout a few times on there.

    Oh, to the hypoagency of the cheaters. Oh, they’re just victims, after all, right?

    No, sorry. Cheating is about selfishness and entitlement All of this hokum about them claiming victim status is just a way to avoid responsibility. Responsibility is hard, and its going to be difficult – roads the cheater isn’t likely to take. They take the selfish and entitled road, keeping the chemical high of the affair while holding on to the safety of the marriage.

    • I’ve given a shout out too – on the Divorce subreddit. But I deleted all my posts and deactivated my account about a month ago. I found out STBX Cheater husband was reading my tweets and I retweeted lots of Chump Lady. He would call our son and ask him questions about things I had written THAT DAY, so I deactivated Twitter also. Then he got more than he wanted when he saw my letter to Chump Lady and the Chump Nation responses. Natural Consequences anyone?

      And on Opportunity I just have to say we had an understanding in our marriage that we don’t respond to old partners/lovers/ex spouse if they contact you. I had several “Opportunities” but was steadfastly committed to my marriage. When my highschool sweetheart contacted me, I DID NOT RESPOND. When my first husband contacted me, I FORWARDED the emails to my husband and DID NOT RESPOND. When two different old boyfriends tracked me down wanting to re-establish contact with me, I told my husband IMMEDIATELY and DID NOT re-establish the connections. But, when my husband was sent an email from his old girl next door girlfriend from the early ’70’s after that OW sent his daughter a message on Facebook asking for my husband’s email address he said “Sure, send her my address”. That there Ladies and Gentlemen, was the decision that ended our marriage. He started an affair with her, abandoned his family and now lives on the other coast, because he feels entitled to do so. He had an Opportunity to say “No” and stay as steadfastly committed to the marriage as I was.

      Hi Honey! You say you are ” painfully aware ” of all the pain you have caused and are causing me and your children. I call BULLSHIT!

      • You are awesome Chump April. When my first ex H contacted me the first thing I said was, “Does your wife know you are contacting me?” He said, “No.” I said, “What would she think about that?” He said, “I don’t think she would like it.” I said, “Then this is the last you will ever hear from me.” I had enough insight to know how hurtful it would be for first ex’s wife so we never spoke again. Juxtapose this against the MOW of current ex-narc who I asked directly what was going on and to please stay away. Her response? Of course, she lied to me and said, “of course, I will stay away.” Their affair was in full swing and had been going on for years. I am such a chump.

  • All kidding aside, in every crime show I’ve ever watched they look for two things, motive and opportunity. Adam had a reason to kill Becky, but didn’t have a chance to do so. Charles has an opportunity to kill Becky, but no reason to do so. Dave had both a reason to kill her, and the opportunity to follow through.

    To move this to cheating, Dave both wants to cheat and has the opportunity to cheat and Charles has the chance to cheat but chooses not to remain faithful. As for Adam, just like there is no way to remain completely safe even with alarm systems and bullet-proof windows, there is no way to completely remove the opportunity short of a medically induced coma.

    Does cheating need opportunity to happen? Yes. But so does every crime.

  • You wouldn’t believe how many times someone links an “enlightening” Esther Perel talk on there in the relationship advice section. You know, to “help” you “move past” the issue of your partner being an entitled, cowardly assw- ehm ehm sorry, I mean to help you move past that unsightly issue you have with your partner making “the mistake of having an affair”.

  • The second knock will be a Jehovah and she’ll have an affair with your husband and fuck up your life ! Opportunity my arse I’d like the opportunity to know what he was doing for a whole two years ! Lying cheating bastards ! Not angry at all !!!

  • “Nearly every day someone refers someone to Chump Lady on Reddit.”

    That’s me, that’s me!! 😀 Seriously. Now that I’ve been on CL for a few months, I see soooooo many textbook narcissists and sociopaths in the Relationships subreddit. It’s a bit scary, really. Pretty much every cheater post on there is obviously referring to a narc or other disordered person. It makes me want to remain single forever.

      • Oh! No I meant that the op is describing their cheating partner, and their partner is very clearly (to me) a narcissist serial cheater. They’re all variations on the same theme, really. And the op wonders what they could have done to make him not cheat, and I’m like “Guuuuurl, go to chumplady.com, stat!”

      • Wow, briefly dipping into that sub-Reddit makes me feel like I should get a Silkwood-styled harsh scrub down. You do get to see the antithesis of this community though, people speaking in hilariously unfiltered ways about how their married AP is not returning their texts, etc. Wow.

      • OMG. I feel ill. I mean really ill.

        Have to go out to walk a few miles and clear my head of all of the ….ugh.

  • It seems to me, if someone seriously values their significant other, the thought of doing anything to permanently, irrevocably fuck that up should be pretty scary. Opportunity for affairs are out there more than ever before especially due to the accessibility of social networking and the internet, but really, stopping to think about what you would lose if/when the other person found out should be a potent buzz-kill, right? Not so much in my disordered STBX entitled narchole, since he is lacking empathy and character. You can only hope, that pointing out early on that you would walk if your significant other ever cheated, would be enough for most people to keep their pants on 🙁 but it was definitely not scary enough for him in my situation.

    • Schmetterling – I think the idea is that these disordered people are so arrogant and sure of themselves and they think their partner is so dumb, that the cheater will never get caught. If they think about it at all, that is. I think they reallydon’t think about it much beyond getting their next hit of kibbles.

      • OtherChump,
        This so true. These fuckwits think they are soooo damn “smart”. After being caught a number of times, they still think they’re slick and no way their chump is going to catch on THIS time. It goes to show how delusional they truly are. In my case, I just got so fed up with his underestimating my intelligence & resourcefulness almost as much as the cheating itself. Let’s face it…I’m college educated, work in a field that requires a lot of analysis & research, and rather tech savvy. He’s failed out of college TWICE and was a phone monkey for the years that he actually had a job. Yet is such a surprise that I should get to the bottom of his douchbaggery and that *gasp* dared to invade his “privacy”.

        • Yeah, FreedomFromCrazy, mine was all indignant about his “privacy” but completely OK with putting me at risk for a deadly disease.

          • Mine convinced me how wrong it was to invade his privacy, how “authoritarian it was,” how it was like the “police,” how could I do such a thing? So, being the spackling chump that I was, I agreed that it was wrong and committed to him that I would never do it again. Chump soup anyone? The outcome of this was we divorced before I had actual proof of the affair and Dday was after divorce when I found the hundreds of love bomb emails. He thinks I hacked his email but when I was setting up my internet in my wonderful new home that I bought all by myself, his gmail simply popped up as the last user as we used to share the laptop. Oh fate. I stayed up all night screen shotting all of them and when I confronted him, he still denied it.

        • FreedomfromCrazy–in part, they have been reinforced for thinking that they are beyond discovery. With each deception that is not detected by the chump, the cheater becomes emboldened and ups his/her game. After all, they didn’t get caught once, so chances are they won’t get caught THIS time, or this time, or this time……until they do.

          • Or in my case, since I took him back twice (I know, shoot me), he thought why would the third (to my knowledge anyway) be different? Yes, loser, it was. I saw a Dr, Phil show years ago where he said that everyone has a breaking point and it’s different for everyone but there is one. Mine was a long time coming but it came. I wish it came sooner, though.

    • Schmetterling/otherchump

      i agree, i always told my ex that if he was going to cheat to make sure he did it good, make sure it was so worth it as he would only do it once to me as i would walk , i repeated this many times over the ten years, we even joked about it. year a go this week he told me via a telephone call that he had been cheating for 8 months, since found out was more like a year, he had even been renting a house in his home town, but not a lad pad, he had bought, washer dryer, big bed, even glasses, plates and cups. i did the pick me dance and all the other things us chumps do but i think i knew in my self somewhere that we would never work it out or get back together again. thank god i found this site and read chump ladies book. .

      • His idea of renting another place should have been a dead giveaway that the relationship was dead. It was agreed that it was only to avoid commuting, to avoid the stress, the risk and price of gas. But on closer inspection, it took him 20 minutes to drive the 4km of congested small roads to park his car in the building garage, instead of 35 minutes of highway to our house. And this to spend the evening alone instead of having a nice meal with me and a walk with the dogs in the forest and be in the same bed at night. He said he needed some quiet time alone, after the discovery of his years-long cheating.
        But hey, there were OPPORTUNITIES ! All the ladies on VK and Netlog and you name it, scantily clad women who are sooo appreciative of him ! A level of worship that I would never attain, busy as I am taking care of the home during my free time.
        But I wanted to believe his story of the poor repentant sausage. And I let him take advantage of all I had to offer during the weekend, instead of breaking up right there and looking for my own real-life opportunities. I am such a… chump.

      • Saralou–issuing an ultimatum to a narcissist is like throwing down the glove for a duel. They now feel they HAVE to take you down; the firmer you are in your boundaries, the greater the thrill of deceiving you. Deceiving a smart person is soooooo much more satisfying. If you’re hell-bent on having power over people (and having exclusive information is power), deceiving a savvy victim shows your skill level much more than deceiving a clueless victim. If you’re a bully, there’s a bigger thrill stealing candy from a 12-year old than a 1-year old.

  • My cheater is probably an oppurtunist adulterer the way some people are oppurtunist car thieves – leave your car parked in a seedy road late at night with your purse on display and someone will succumb. I would walk on by without feeling the need to break into your car and take your purse but thats just me.
    My ex has a knack of spotting oppurtunity among co workers, women already known to him, married and bored or unhappy. His modus operandi seems to be “friendship” with the woman and the first sign that she is up for it he moves in.
    Some people go looking, others have an antenna for the weak and the willing…..who might be game…..who has problems at home….quick, befriend her, listen to her problems…..you know she wants to.
    I have heard a theory that would-be cheaters give off a scent that is detectable to like minded others….the circumstances may vary but are not that important….if you want an affair partner then you will probably find one.

    • Mine did a lot of volunteer work. I know at least two of the short-term APs were at shelters for abused women. You could say he created opportunities.

      • Boy, just when you think you have plumbed the depths to with these disordered freaks can go, someone just blows your mind with deeper darker crazy. He targeted abused women? This is just horrifying.

        • Yep. He told me all the people he was sleeping with were escaping abusive marriages, but while some of them were victims others were fellow volunteers or people he met in other places. He got a lot of mileage out of telling people I abused him and how they were “inspiring” him and maybe with their help and support he would be brave enough to escape me. I did report him after D-day, but technically they were all of age and while he met them there no sex happened while on the shelter’s property. Once people leave the shelter they have a right to have a relationship with whomever they want. Those were mostly one night stands. One long term AP knew him before we got married, the other long term AP was a fellow volunteer.

          But yes, for his quick fucks he went after battered women.

          Didn’t I pick a prize?

    • My STBX does the same thing, finds the troubled slut at work, listens to all her problems, tells her all his problems. Then bam they are best friends, in love and sleeping together! Then he tells me he wants a divorce because he is madly in love with someone else, they break up and like an idiot I take him back because he says he will change. Always the same, every time he does it. He is quick to point out it’s not just sex but true love every damn time, he has had a lot of true love, soulmates over the years and I have always been his backup plan. This time the kids and I moved out and I filed for divorce, so when his latest “true love” doesn’t work out he will have no one to run back to.

      • My X found twu wuv at work with his skank coworker in 2011. He even gave me a heads up that he took her out for drinks after work one night because she was so upset over her divorce proceedings.

        I’m a chump; I thought he was being an honest, NICE guy.

        Silly, chumpy me! Turns out they were plotting his exit all along. In all probability, he confessed to the drinks because I did the books for our family and would have seen the debit.

  • Obviously, the only way to ‘affair-proof’ your marriage is to resort to kidnap and incarceration … so simple when you think about it …

    Strangely enough, it never entered my head that I should have kept ‘The Great I Am’ locked up in the garden shed, let out only when chained to my ankle.

    No, I’m seeing now how I was such a bad wife!

    • Every time I see an online article about “affair proof” your marriage, I want to find the author and slap the shit out of them

        • OMG YES!!!! The only way to affair proof your marriage is to NEVER HAVE MARRIED THE CHEAT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Sadly, it’s all too often too late.

          • True, but they misrepresented themselves so it’s hard to detect whores sometimes. Luckily, it’s never too late to divorce their loser ass.

    • Lol, Jayne! I think you have a new business idea–“Affair-Proof Your Marriage! Shed comes in easy-to-assemble parts; no more difficult than Ikea furniture to set up. Ball and chain is made of heavy iron, and the Baldwin Lock is of the highest quality. Call now, and we will throw in a set of free handcuffs for taking your potential cheater out to dinner!”

      • I wonder what I’d find if I Googled ‘designer chastity belts’. Maybe I’ll look, but I’m afraid they’ll be there.

          • I’m not sure the shed or ball and chain could stop him. I just got a description of OW from one of my kids.

            She’s skinny with wide shoulders, tits sagging to her belly button with her arms hanging like an ape., raspy voice, and ugly as hell, an obvious drug addict. Nothing could possibly stop him from escaping for all that bliss

          • It is most alarming to my adult chdren and granddaughter who HAD to go to piggys house for his birthday. They are not plan I g on seeing him again. My other daughter met her on Father’s Day as they had her WAIT on them at work. She had to go to the bathroom and cry because piggy told her to hurry up.

  • According to this dumb cheater-apologist reasoning, everything is the fault of opportunity.
    Opportunity causes affairs.
    Opportunity causes people to cheat on their taxes.
    Opportunity causes bank robberies.
    Opportunity causes child molestation.
    Opportunity causes murder.
    Opportunity causes the heartbreak of psoriasis.

    Damn, opportunity is one evil bastard! We clearly won’t have peace and justice in this world until we completely eradicate . . . opportunity.

    These goofballs don’t know or don’t care about the difference between a necessary and a sufficient condition. Yes, opportunity is a necessary condition to an affair, though a lunch break or 2 minutes in a broom closet is enough. But entitlement is almost by itself SUFFICIENT to make affairs happen.

    We chumps are Exhibit A in this argument. We all had opportunity to cheat, sometimes lots of it. And especially after D-Day plant of motive. But we didn’t. Why? Because we didn’t feel entitled to it. We felt that was off limits because of our wedding vows and our commitments to our spouses and families and our overall integrity. Opportunity doesn’t mean jack in the face of these things.

    But I would agree that reacting to infidelity is all about opportunity, namely, the opportunity to gain a life and tell a using cheater to bugger off.

  • My EH created his own opportunity by logging in to Ashley Madison and other sites every 6-9 months or so. Being self employed gave him time to act and a good cover (jack ass once pretended to work for a week after getting fired).

    I am relieved to see he hasn’t had a character transplant and is apparently cheating on his MOW, whom he is living with. I’m trying to be Meh about and sit on the sidelines with my popcorn, but I have this overwhelming urge to help her d-day along (although as a cheater I don’t feel I owe her any loyalty). Can any good come from this?

    • “Self Employed” is cheater Nirvana. Ex made good money when I met him, then after hooking up with the Whore, became self employed. When we had a preschooler to support. He hopped from sales item to sales item, never really doing anything, ALL day long.

  • ‘The true test of a man’s character is what he does when no one is watching.’
    John Wooden

    Goes for both sexes of course. Character beats opportunity.

  • Bullshit.

    I am funny, intelligent, successful and pretty damn cute for a 45 year old. Senior executive, regular conferences, trips overseas, business breakfasts and lunches with other executives, business leaders, academics.

    So. Many. Opportunities.

    All of which I shut down immediately. Politely, easily, with no discomfort or embarrassment to anyone involved. Mainly by inserting my husband into conversations on a regular basis whenever necessary.

    Sleazy business guy at conference: wow, that ‘s a great dress – you look hot!

    Me: why thank-you – that’s what my husband said!

    Sleazy business guy at conference: how about a drink after this to discuss strategies?

    Me: why thank-you – but I have to call my husband – how about we catch up in the break-out session tomorrow?

    Sleazy business guy at conference: you are amazing/gorgeous/incredible/sexy/whatever!

    Me: why thank-you – I couldn’t possibly do it all without my husband supporting me!

    Opportunities my arse. We all have opportunities. The thing that defines us is how we respond to them.

    • So very true blackbird, I made sure I never friended an ex on Facebook, my cheater went looking for them and of course found them. I go on business trips and avoid hanging with the opposite sex and never discuss personal issues with males at work or otherwise, just leads to opportunity. I know that, and avoid it.

      One of my male co-workers is taking a business trip to vegas. He said he will not leave the event or his hotel room. He knows what his wife will do to him if he does something stupid. That is character and love for his wife.

      My cheater would grab every opportunity thrown at him, he has no respect for our marriage, me, or himself. That is the difference.

    • Blackbird,
      That was my practice too, throughout my career. Quoted husband as protection whenever needed. The thought of action on the side was nauseating – hell, I’d rather read a good book, eat chocolates, or get a manicure than boink some slithering horny guy from work.

      Imagine the disappointment upon discovering years later that husband didn’t follow the same discipline.

      All his female “mentees” knew he was married to a successful professional, but it didn’t stop the ambitious little ho’s from pursuing his offers. I particularly recall a timely encounter with one who was married, whom my gut had screamed at me for months about…just from the way he mentioned her, their too-frequent “business meetings in another city” and some other coincidences. She tried to make nice with me, feigning a conservative almost prim demeanor. I just leaned in when she tried to shake my hand, and hissed…any more shenanigans hun and I’ll be introducing myself to your hubby. Get it? Husband did not know I had confronted her. My husband, months later, said she had changed jobs and moved away, but my response was “too bad, you lost your favorite admirer”. The look on his face was priceless and he dropped the subject.

      I divorced him after 29’years of his superiority complex, his scheming family, and his so-called mentoring. Now he is free to impose his aging self on whoever he chooses! And yes am enjoying my chocolates and manicures.

      • “She tried to make nice with me, feigning a conservative almost prim demeanor. I just leaned in when she tried to shake my hand, and hissed…any more shenanigans hun and I’ll be introducing myself to your hubby. Get it? Husband did not know I had confronted her. My husband, months later, said she had changed jobs and moved away”

        Wow Marci that’s pretty awesome!

      • I LOVE it!!! Good for you Marci. I’m the one thinking of what I should’ve said, when the moment has passed.

      • Awesome Marci…Ibid….parallel lives, including chocolates and manicures. You should open The Chump Chocolate and Manicure Club…trumps a cheater every time.

    • I would agree, Blackbird, except that OWhore admitted: ” I found it attractive to see a guy in love with his wife.” Didn’t turn her off one bit, in fact it gave her determination to pursue (and be pursued).

      And I guess the ‘love’ she saw was not ‘love’ enough to walk away from the ‘opportunity.’

    • Blackbird,
      I work in a industry with a lot of guys and I do the same thing. I always bring up my husband now Ex up in conversation !!
      Nobody forced an affair down my throat!!

    • ^^This^^ There are plenty of “opportunities” for just about everyone. You just have to make a choice to shut things down before it goes anywhere.

    • ^^THIS!!^^ At conferences and anywhere else, it is really about what each of us decides to do with these “opportunities.”

      I chose to remove myself from any situations that would compromise my values and integrity.

      When I found out just over a year ago that he made a different choice, I initiated our divorce. It is not finalized yet, but through it all, I feel uber-proud to have preserved both my integrity and dignity as I forge on to Meh.

    • Replace ‘husband’ with ‘boyfriend’ and I do the same thing.
      I also don’t discuss anything, be it news or anything personal, with anyone (especially of the opposite sex) until I have discussed it with my partner (immediate family excluded from ‘anyone’ in this list) – and a lot of things are simply off-limits to anyone who is not immediate family or my partner.

      Fortunately, I’ve never had to deal with sleazy co-workers, but I had to deal with a sleazy client once, many moons ago – I shut that shit down within 0.01 seconds. Convo went like this:
      Sleazebag: I like your hairstyle, why don’t you come to my salon next time and get it done again? (said with a wink)
      Me: My partner would not approve, and neither do I.
      Sleazebag: Oh come on
      Me: I don’t think you listened to what I said. Back off. Now.

  • As I walked into the office today, within the first five minutes, these are the “opportunities” presented to me:

    Parking lot: unlocked cars with GPS, phones, coins, and even packages.
    Lobby: Unclaimed umbrellas and dry cleaning stuff (we have a service).
    Cafeteria refrigerator: Lots of yummy food and sodas, and hey, no names nor locks on them.
    Common office area: Office supplies, loads of them, all for the taking. Nice brands, too.
    Walking past co-workers’ offices: Smart phones, purses, books, goodies.

    Guess what? To someone without character, those were all “opportunities” and to those with character? They belonged to someone else and you respect that. No need to be policed. Enough said.

      • UniquelyMe, same thing with things with dog shoes. Purses, phones, trophies, coats, suits, you name it, just stacked on top of kennels. Easy pickins for other competitors (we were more careful during public shows of course). The only thing I ever had stolen was a brand new Great Dane crate that I accidentally left overnight ringside. And, of course, my husband after 35 yrs.

        • Well, come to think of, they probably decided to steal the dog crate while they were making plans to nuclear two families.

  • I have been an attorney in a non-metropolitan area for almost 3 decades. When younger, I sort of rocked in terms of looks. The bars of our local counties were almost all men in my those days, many of whom were intelligent, egotistical, wealthy, etc (you get the picture). My own partners are all men, extremely talented and wealthy and extremely entitled. I was told many years ago that while very friendly, I give off a vibe that I was not interested in anything inappropriate. And nothing inappropriate ever happened. It was not an option. But my ex, to whom I was married 25 years, managed to have an astonishing double life with his multiple affair partners,

    So no, it is not about opportunity. It is truly about CHARACTER. As I have often said, you aren’t sitting there hashing out a legal issue one minute as colleagues, and suddenly naked and having sex on the couch. It is a huge leap to go from the former, to allowing an attraction, flirting, maneuvering, crossing of all kinds of lines, dismissing the thought of your husband and kids, his dismissing the thought of his wife and children, until ultimately you have taken off your clothes and betrayed everyone you vowed to hold dear and blew up your lives.

    Infideltiy is not only a decision, but s series of decisions…to betray your spouse, to betray your children, and ultimately to passive aggressively claim superiority and ultimate control.

        • Clip, I am an Aussie and 63 years old and here in Australia we loved Flip Wilson. However, I must plead ignorance because I used to think he was saying “Jardine” not “Geraldine” in my innocent teenage years! Oh for those days again. 🙂

      • It was my absolute favorite show…especially when he dressed up like Geraldine. My mom and dad got a kick out of me watching it because I was kind of young.

        I am right on 50s doorstep so yeah I remember flip!

    • One of my favorite Geraldine lines is “If you have to hit me, to prove that you love me, watch out that one of these nights I don’t return your love.” Said with usual Geraldine style, of course.

  • Even if you subscribed to this “blame the victim/betrayed” idea of opportunity – what about the lies and deception that follow?

    Consider the lies involved:
    They lie to their spouse and children every day about where they have been and who they have been with. (Worse yet, they turn our valid questions around and accuse us of being paranoid/imaging things.)
    They lie to the affair partner about their intentions and most likely misrepresent the quality of their family life
    They lie to themselves about what they are doing and why

    That to me is the crux of the character issue. To make a mistake is one thing. To carry on with the mistake for months or years – or to have a series of mistakes/affairs – is a sign that you have really lost your integrity.

    To live a double life, and to regularly lie to your spouse, your children and yourself, is as as much a sign of a character disorder as the cheating itself

    • Good point. Anyone can cross a line. (Singular) But to conduct an affair — especially one of any duration — requires countless line crossings. It’s decision after decision. Action after action.

      And yet cheaters when caught want to cop to a singular “mistake”, that “just happened.”

      • My STBXH worked and lived out of town for 7 years, I’ve learned the affair began the last 4 years (2010) of that time with his co-worker. He spent half a year there every year and in the end would be there 3 weeks at a time and one week home. He was living a complete double life! I suspected something going on in 2012, he flat out denied it and said I was crazy, she was “just” a friend (MOW). Busted him finally in September 2014. This is NO mistake as he claims, he calculated every move for years so that I wouldn’t find out. I also begged him to find work at home in 2012 because I was lonely, he blew me off, no response at all. That’s when I started to give up and my drinking escalated/progressed. I got really depressed. 🙁 Glad I figured out the truth before it all did me in.

          • Getting so much better, I addressed my drinking and got help for it, been sober over 9 months and I got a good lawyer and I’m in the middle of divorce proceedings and I moved out and got my own place in the city. 🙂 I left a cheater and gained a life!!!!!

              • Thanks Tony! It was a big transition for me because I left my dream home, our retirement home at a lake resort to move into a 2 bedroom apartment in the city. I worked on that home of ours like a slave since 2010 when “I” handled all the reno’s, contractors etc… too while he was away up north starting his affair. Had I known that, no reno’s would have gone forward. He used to get irritated with me calling him over questions about the reno’s to all the time! Now I get why, MOW! BTW, he brought her there in 2012 to show her the place, to impress her one time while I was at work I found out. Showed off all my work!!!!! Well, he lost his job up north due to me exposing their affair in February, now the dream home is up for sale! How nice, he won’t get to ever live in it except for these shorts few months.

                It’s on Kijiji right now. #8 Elm Place – Candle Lake.

                http://www.kijiji.ca/v-house-for-sale/prince-albert/candle-lake-newly-renovated-home-for-sale/1086645768

                I love lake living, some day I’ll do it again! 🙂

              • Thanks Kimberly, it was tough to leave at first and that’s why I think I tried the reconciliation back in May to be honest, just didn’t want to leave there! But in the end I was so unhappy and I couldn’t live like that.

              • Kate, I just decided to click on the link. I should forward it to my elderly parents who are trying to sell their cottage. Granted it’s a log cabin (near Ottawa) but i was just there and scrubbed 30 years of grease off the ‘oh that’s new’ stove. There’s rustic and then there’s really rustic! Your place is gorgeous. Hope you get another place one day 🙂

              • Thanks ChumpyElf! Dickhead won’t let me list it with a realtor, so it’s going to court to be court ordered, he only allowed (cough) for me to put it on kijiji. Of course he’s doing everything thing to stall things, he wanted to enjoy the summer off at the lake. Ugh
                When it does sell and I get my half which is such a rip off since I did all the work to make it worth something (hardly bitter here hey?) I’ll eventually look to see what else is out there. I’ll probably look for a small cabin this time, can’t afford a house now. But I’ll still get the life style! 🙂 I’m in no hurry either.

  • The entitled have so many opportunities. X described each and every one. The final whore, #17 was the opportunity of a lifetime. He said, “you’ll never believe where we met”. It must have been the most romantic encounter ever. Yup. It’s funny to know she had the opportunity to meet up with a serial cheating covert narcissist who can’t hear and wets the bed.

    And accordingly he will be presented with many more opportunities since he views life through the lens of “it just happened”.

    It is all about personality disordered entitlement. Shit happens because the penis knows what it wants. Strange.

    • Asshat comes home every day with stories about awesome patients and people he has met. They are mostly fascinating tales. The ones that really annoy me are when he is bursting to tell me that some woman was making out with her boyfriend on the street corner outside the office and everyone knows it is not her husband! He always seems unnaturally excited about watching other people cheat in plain sight so he can justify repeating that ‘cheating is really common’ so I shouldn’t be worried. Hearing him gush about OW made me realize he was full of shit and he still would not own up to anything. Sigh.

  • As I come to understand the machinations and engineering he put into place, MONTHS ahead of time, to set up the “opportunity” for his affair, I am reminded of the Milton Berle quote “If opportunity doesn’t knock, build a door.”
    If only he had brought any of that foresight and industriousness to the marriage…sheesh.
    Oh well, turned to be my opportunity to lose his immature selfish angry ass, and I’ll take it!

    • I hear you, arlo! Mine spent months “grooming” the AP for his supposed opportunity.

      Definitely an opportunity for you to leave his sorry ass.

  • Notice the double standard? It is an opportunity problem when talking to the cheater. But if the chump has any “issues”…they are flaws of the chump’s character. Not that I am saying anything can justify cheating…I am just pointing out how the logic breaks down.

    I would also add that isn’t the opportunity excuse another way of saying cheaters lack impulse control? Shiny object!!! Must have!!!! If I am not mistaken, that’s a sign of mental disease for an adult not to have such control. But I am not a therapist/psychologist. I DO know it is a sign of a character flaw.

  • Yes, Arlo
    Now the playing field is level. Gaining a life now presents itself to me as the greatest opportunity I’ve had since I discarded the mimdfucking asshole by way if divorce.

  • My Ex found his “opportunity” on FaceBook! He was sucked into believing that everyone who friended him was really a friend! Now that his life has blown up and his fairy tale love affair went up in flames these same jerks can’t even be found on Facebook!

  • Everyone in Reconciliation LOVES the “affairs are about opportunity”line because to stay with a Cheater, you have to buy into the “they are GOOD People” propaganda. They just made a simple, human mistake. If they are turds, it’s not cool to stay with them, and causes a shift in the Teutonic plates of Cheaterville.

    • To reconcile implies mutual respect. First, we already know they don’t have respect for us. Secondly, how can a chump ever respect someone who willingly engages in affairs.

        • Kate50, I too am about to be thrown out of the home that I made all the decision about what it looked like. Reading that you have moved on with the same feelings I have gives me strength that I can do it too. Thanks for sharing.

          • I know how you feel, thanks for making me feel not alone, I’m working on that resentment I’m feeling by telling myself, I did it once, I’ll do it again! Hang in there. 🙂

    • …and this is why mutual friends wish to remain neutral.

      I have dealt with this, and my response basically is that it is not one mistake, and to think of the number of lies and actions – any one of which they could have stopped and turned around on because it was the wrong thing to do – that having an affair entails.

      Unfortunately, I usually only get a blank look in response because it is incomprehensible to those who have not experienced it.

      • Tony, this has been really frustrating to me. Same experience. I do believe in forgiveness, even and especially when people don’t deserve it, but there’s a difference between forgiveness and egging someone on in their evildoing. I’ve never demanded that people stone STBX in the streets. But I’d like to think that they wouldn’t go out of their way to remove consequences for him, to make his life cushy, to throw parties for him, and to affirm all his hurtful, thieving decision. While they see me lying there in the mud, having been stabbed, and walk on past, laughing. Ouch. But of course, I’m thankful I found out just how fake those friendships were before wasting any more time on them. Bye, jerks.

    • Sadly, if you read bs blogs you see an arc in the reconciliation timeline. First, extreme pain and anger, then hope, then despair. Still hanging on. On several blogs I told the person to come here and got “shouted” off. At least they have the name when reality hits.

      • I had many opportunities too and time since my soon X worked up north and I was home alone, plus I work on the road for my job and meet many people, but you know, everyone knew I was off limits because I talked about my husband and family ALL the time! I loved and cherished them!

  • I’ve had ample opportunity and would never have been caught. And yet, I loved and respected my spouse and let the opportunity to screw someone else pass on it’s merry way.

  • In Brasil in the old days they used to say ‘a ocasao faz o ladrao’, opportunity creates the thief, but more recently you hear ‘a ocasao faz o roubo, O ladrao ja era feito’ (or something like that – it’s been a while!). Meaning; the opportunity creates the theft. The thief was already a thief.

    There is another way we could avoid many opportunities for infidelity; we could keep all women in purdah, never allow them out of the house except when accompanied by a male relative, and even then covered from head to toe to avoid any temptation on the part of anybody! No school or work, no driving …. I realize that this doesn’t eliminate opportunities for same-sex infidelity or within families, but it might cut down the numbers! Anybody up for that one? Or to be fair, every ten years we could switch it around, sometimes the men all isolated and ‘protected’, sometimes the women …

  • Hummm…Their was no opportunity for me. I must have been protraying some type of signal that I was married and off limits. Something I wish my XH did.

    • Same TP, I didn’t even notice men that way, no interest at all and I was a lonely woman craving attention.

    • As one of the guys on the board…I can tell you from my perspective, you’re absolutely right. You were married/committed women and most likely ACTED like it. And unless you’re a dunce of man, you pick up on that vibe almost immediately. OFF LIMITS! In my experience, if a “taken” woman acts available…she probably is available (to somebody, eventually). She just created the mythical “opportunity” for herself by acting available, which the cheater will use to minimize their lousy character and decision making. “Opportunity” doesn’t happen in a vacuum. That opportunity can easily be shut down, but that would mean forgoing some ego kibbles and cake. And I think it snowballs from there. One “harmless” forkful of cake ends up being a sheet cake binge.

      The other side of the coin – a guy who is acting unavailable is most likely leaving you alone, ha ha. I’m not saying every married guy who talks to a woman is up to no good…but I’m sure you ladies can tell the difference between a guy who is harmless vs. one who is trying to get into your pants in about 30 seconds as well.

      I have a very simple rule when it comes to interacting with the opposite sex: If I wouldn’t want my significant other to know what I was doing…I probably shouldn’t be doing it.

      • I work in sales for a food service company Scotty and the majority of my customers are men, the Greek guys make comments but I just laugh at them and tell them if you want good deals from me you better behave yourself, then I laugh at them. They no anyways to respect me, the only person that didn’t respect me was my cheaterpants. Lesson learned to trust then verify in the future and listen to my gut!!! BTW, the gut tells us who not to be around as well, who’s creepy.

  • Deadcheater always told me that he was hit on by women at work who had as much to lose as he did …of course I thought he was telling me how he stayed faithful, not how he found APs. I have no idea how many affairs he had (at least 3). His big “wanted to leave his family for her” affair was with a coworker who was engaged and seemed off limits as a life partner potential…likely had good sex but he became convinced that he was in lurve with her.

    My snarky side now hopes they were madly in love and my meany-wife self kept them apart. boo freaking hoo. There was another coworker who claimed that they were “Oh just the very best of friends” but she didnt come to his funeral. red flag

  • I am not buying that argument either. It is about choices (decisions) and the reasons for those choices.

    You could make the argument that now that chocolate cake is everywhere – you can even buy it online – that we are powerless to resist.

    I feel like society is getting dumber, not more aware. They ignore the logic placed right in front of them. Like the number of choices/decisions involved in getting naked and having sex with another person (who is not your committed partner). It is a massive decision tree. And at any point there are choices to stop, dress, leave, etc.

    I can see that maybe ONCE it was a bad choice/ terrible decision. I think this is where society gets stuck. But continual serial cheating and the mind fuckery that goes along with it — this is not about opportunity.

      • Studies have actually shown that social media is creating more narcissists than ever before. Our society is so fucked.

        • You know, I have been thinking about this one…

          I have Facebook. For me it is like an interactive message board – I check to see if there are any messages or important posts from friends and family, post witty things and then exit.

          It usually takes me about fifteen minutes.

          I do not have snapchat, Twitter, Instagram, Tinder, or any of that other nonsense.
          A deal breaker for me is someone that is one social media all of the time.

          So, as we all know, our exes being the parasitic, shape-shifting vampires they are, mimicked this in the beginning about me, but slowly she grew to be on Facebook ALL of the time.

          In fact, once she said (and I kick myself in the ass for letting this slide like so many others…) “I’m a Facebook stalker.”

          At first, I thought she was doing her college homework, and I should let her be and not participate in the relationship because she was doing school work. Nope, she was on Facebook all of the time while I was making her breakfast in the morning, and any other time we were to be intimate and alone together.

          • My ex lives pretty much his entire life online. On Facebook and the rest, he can be whoever he wants to pretend to be. He can make up a new reality. He can twist and bend his life to show off the sparkles and hide the stink of turd. This provides him all sorts of “fans” who really have no idea who he is, and don’t actually care. It’s the ultimate narcissist’s playground.

          • My x soon was on his phone ALL the time! Ding, ding, ding, ding, texts galore, it drove me NUTS!!!! He took it to bed with him too!!! I hate my phone because I work on it talking to customers 9-3 (cut off time). Then it’s put away on my charger.

          • I accomplish a lot of good on FB…its a tool like anything else, you can build a house with a hammer or you can kill someone with it…just a tool.

            but some people use it poorly

            People love to hear my “husband died, reconnected with man I met 40 yrs ago, happily ever after” story but yesterday, the optometrist said “my husband of 30 yrs has a terminal disease and I was reconnected to my old boyfriend on FB, the old friend is so excited !”….it sounded like she was ready to put a pillow over her dying husbands head. I suggested she keep the old boyfriend at armslength for now … awks

    • It’s true–the rare times I am in a mall, the smell of the cinnamon bun shop provides an almost irresistible allure. Not only do I resist the temptation to buy one, I have NEVER knocked down a small child who just bought a cinnamon bun. Opportunity, schmopportunity.

  • Asshat’s therapist kept telling him, pre D-Day, that I am discerning. I can only assume he had been complaining about my zillion faults as a human/wife/mother. After the therapist asked me to come one day to describe his strengths and weaknesses, I focused on only one weakness – his lack of boundaries. Asshat suddenly quit going to therapy. He told me it was bc he was sick of waiting for things to change (meaning he was sick of being told he had to get off his ass and be the one to change). I think he was just angry that another, and in this case objective, person was providing him with reasons why his choices were wrong. I hooked up all kinds of tech stuff at home so he could more easily finish charts here and still he chose to stay at the office until the wee hours. Where he endured a Jehovahs Witness cleaning lady, just to dig a deeper hole with his golden opportunity, named Florence. Hoser.

      • My son’s therapist just said basically the same thing the other day. She said ‘talk therapy’ is interesting bc if you really expect someone to be held accountable for themselves and take action, it may be useless. She said some therapists just sit there and let their clients vent. Asshat has been to counseling several times in his life when dealing with crazy exes. He hasn’t changed much over time….

      • Therapy can actually make sociopaths worse; they are reinforced for talking about their bad behavior & hone their manipulation skills.

    • “he had been complaining about my zillion faults as a human/wife/mother. ”

      Yup, ChumpyElf–mine complained about my poor wifey skills to his student APs, so that at least two of them demanded he leave his wife to be with them. Imagine their surprise when he declined; guess I wasn’t that bad after all.

      And during his piss-poor attempts to reconcile after D-day he had the nerve to say, “I always speak positively about you to people.” Sure, except when you’re trying to seduce them.

      • Yes, exactly this! Florence is angry bc he refused to leave me and, as far as I think, dumped her. When I railed on him for badmouthing me around town (literally telling lawyers and physicians crap), he said, “I do NOTHING but gush about you to every patient.” Maybe subconsciously he believes that makes him look more innocent. Oh, no, Dr Asshat wouldn’t cheat – I’ve heard his wife is awesome!

    • It is pretty amazing how warped the narc’s reality is and how desperately they believe they are right. My STBX Asshat (love the Supernatural reference — if the hat fits….) wanted to find an MC that not only took our insurance but also would agree that he was “entitled” to continue with his multiple APs so long as I was not interested in sex with him (I felt our bedroom had become too crowded once I uncovered the tip of the AP iceberg ) — all in an efort to avoid any consequences for his vile choices. After he had a separate meeting with his chosen MC I went for my separate meeting as a precurser to starting joint therapy. I asked the MC what his prognosis was for our marriage. He said “your husband is a sociopathic liar and sex addict and the best you can hope for is to co-parent in the same zip code.” Then he (the MC) HAD A SEIZURE!!! My reaction (after he regained composure after an extended period of silence with his eyes closed)? I assumed that my situation was so bad that it caused the MC to temporarily lose consciousness. Self-blame. My narcissistic STBX had trained me well. The MC later told me that he had a seizure disorder and his episodes were very rare but unpredictable. Even with his explanation, I of course believed that only my explaining my truly messed up marriage could be a reliable trigger.

      • Omg Suffragette! That’s a crazy story! Even tho I’m sure you know (now) you didn’t cause it, that would set anyone back.
        It took me forever to tell my friends and family what my wasband did because I felt like it was just pouring poison into their ears. If that had happened to me, I don’t know that I would ever have spoken of it again!

      • Wow. Apparently, your STBX is a force of nature! Poor MC. Asshat said he was going to go back to IC after i said he could but no way was I setting foot in MC until he truly understood he was wrong. He got all defensive but started gushing about his counselor and about how everything he talks about is based on scientific fact. Hey, it’s scientific fact that cheaters are self-serving assholes! I’m sure it was on NPR…. I have heard nothing about how IC is going and I doubt he is going regularly. Because nothing is wrong with him, dammit. He’s a good guy and I am just a whiny leech. I think he was really thinking a counselor would tell me I needed to work on myself but in that one session with his IC in the fall, the guy was explaining to him that he just needed to look at himself and see what he could change. I wonder if the IC refused to take him back?

      • This reminded me of Harry Potter and Professor Sybill Trelawney’s prediction in Prisoner of Azkaban. That character, like your authentic MC, too had a moment of foresight regarding your future!

  • I feel entitled to certain things…and I take opportunities when they present themselves to me. The difference is….my entitlements and the opportunities I take usually benefit my family. I think the cheater sense of entitlement is maligned. The opportunity that they find or seek is always to benefit themselves. I think thats why cheaters are often found to have taken money, lie and use people. They dont have the little devil and angel on the shoulder battling it out for the ‘ right’ decision. I really think that the ego manifests itself in a different way. They have a mini me standing on their shoulder feeding the ego. A little green guy who sole job is to give ego strokes and keep that engine burning on kibble. Put the same opportunity in front of a chump and in front of a cheater…. The chump will way the benefit and impact on others. The cheater? The cheater will see the same opportunity and will see how it benefits them. Same opportunity… Perceived very differently.
    Its not about entitlement or opportunity… Its what they do to get them.

  • So translation is we chumps never had ‘opportunity’? Either no one else wanted us I.e. We are undesirable or we had an opportunity and did not take it. Either way something must be wrong with us. But you guys are right. They judge by their own bar. I have spoken to cheats .they confirm that they felt they deserved it.
    I have been on the brink of cheating while dating. It was no accident. The attention felt good. I started to compare. It is a process and in the end I opened my eyes and saw it is nothing more than selfishness. The guy was getting off thinking he could steal me. I was enjoying the attention but it was only with a view to sex. I had no intention of tell my fb at the time (who incidentally was cheating on me at the same time).
    The other guy and I were never physical. When he attempted to I told him that I had to go. I just left. After I thought that I can see what happens in these situations. People need to learn to walk away. The temptation is sometimes greater than you.
    It is like cake. It is easier to resist cake if it is not there. Forbidden fruit and all. Once the fruit is bitten you unleash all kind of hell.
    I know that I could have cheated and I chose not to. As occurred in a lot of cases here I was the on on the receiving end of the shit stick. Forgiving being patient etc. but at no time did I say let me solve this with a good fuck. I always thought how it would hurt him. Waste of time. I don’t regret the fact that I never cheated. It is not my thing. Just like fidelity was not his thing. Funny when he thought I was cheating he was sneaking around trying to get into my phone. And he believes I cheated because….he did.

    • “The temptation is sometimes greater than you”

      I think it’s more about always looking and entitlement. I make no excuses for cheaters cheating. It takes a lot of planning, lying, and entitlement. There will always be temptation but those with integrity never think about it.

  • @Schmetterling – My STBXH didn’t worry at all about losing me obviously, I suspected something going on between him and the coworker back in 2012 and confronted him which he denied and he continued on for another TWO YEARS!!!!! Till I actually caught them with evidence this time.

    • Yes Kate, same here, and even after I finally confronted him with undeniable evidence he turned right away around hunting down a different “nostalgic affair partner” while keeping the long term affair as well in his back pocket. You would think that would at least make them stop and reflect, but in my situation, it actually seemed I was putting more fuel into the fire. It made him really mad that he got caught and it made him really rebellious as well. I had a key logger and it was so shocking to see him continuing with no break. Nothing could have stopped him, he was a driven maniac about it. Sick, sick, sick

  • If you are my ex’s OW you would believe that ……….. affairs are about the chump not being a good enough spouse!!!!

    • One of the many things OW thinks makes her better than me is that she doesn’t care one snit about nice shoes and that I am a terrible wife bc I like shoes. LOL.

      • The MOW told me that I didn’t look after his needs, well that was pretty difficult to do since he was hardly ever home!!!!! And he worked with her 8 hours a day, drank with her after work at his place up north, she spent more time with him then i ever did. When he did come home for a week or so, I worked full time Mon-Fri, so I saw him a couple days maybe and he was calling her when he was home with me! Sick and twisted.

        • Thankfully, I’ve only spoke with OW once and that was a professional encounter before D-Day. I wonder if she was flustered bc she wanted to tell me but my little son was with me? I imagine the reason she is so desperate to contact me now is bc she has so much to tell me. How he hates everything about me and I don’t lavish him with praise. Sorry, beeyotch, I’m a bit busy taking care of a home and a special needs child. He needs to grow up and learn to deal with not being the center of everyone’s universe. Funny how they manage to create situations they can complain about later. You can’t take care of someone who is not present! Last summer, he went home early from a vacation to spend my birthday with HER. The end of that romantic week ended with her scraping him off the floor, vomiting (from a legitimate illness) and later he complained that I was not there to help him but she was so caring. Fucktard forgot I was busy driving 2,500 miles with a 6 y.o AND stopping to get her a thank you present.

          • STBXH said to me once “She listened to him and I didn’t” that was in response to all the calls he made to her when I discovered the archive of phone bills that showed calls to her home number.

            then he changed his story later at marriage counseling to, “She need him because her Mother was sick, she cried to him that she didn’t have any friends and she was having marriage problems”. So whom needed whom????? BTW the marriage Councillor called him out on that explanation, she said YOU (him) were calling her! Then he said she would text him (call me). LOL

            This is in addition to them being together all the time.

              • Yup, he would make things up as he goes, you could tell when he was corned though, that’s when the “I don’t know” and “I can’t remember’s” would start flowing.

              • Me: So when did you actually start having the best sex of your life?
                Him: Oh, um, you know, I don’t remember…. Um, last summer, no, late summer, actually, late fall.

                *sigh*

              • When I searched his brief case and suit case and found Viagra pills, with some empty/used in the packages. Found them in both btw, 2 separate pkgs.

                Me: When did you start taking Viagra?

                Him: (All nervously) said, I got them as samples from the Doctor, I used them with YOU.

                Me: When did you get them? What Doctor?

                Him: Dr’s (name), I think, can’t remember exactly.

                Me: Dr (name) has only been our Doctor for 2 months! You haven’t been home much since then, when did we have sex for you to use them.

                Him: Well I took them when I came home on the drive home hoping to have sex when I got here.

                Me: You’re flights were late all the time, you didn’t get home till after 8:30 PM and you always came in saying you were tired and headed to bed almost right away.

                Him: Well I did try when we went to bed, I’d cuddle up behind you, you didn’t seem interested, so I didn’t push for it.

                Me: (STBXH name) if my leg even touched you in bed, you’d flinch and pull away, you also started wearing pajama pants to bed, you were hardly anticipating anything. You always said you were tired, long day, long flight!

                Him: I was just playing hard to get hoping you would initiate things for once.

                Me: Fuck off LIAR!

                This was after D-day btw that I found the pills. 5 or so were missing.

              • Kimberly, I had no idea they cost so much. Kate, Asshat started with samples before I met him, then his doctor/friend (who cheated on his lovely wife also) started prescribing Viagra and Cialis. Years later, he has convinced himself it is my lack of attention (damn those fucking gold stars again) and lack of interest that is causing his ED. Nevermind decades of hyperglycemia and undiagnosed diabetes. Oh and I tried really hard during my Chumpty Dance marathon (before D-Day). I would try to initiate and he actually laughed at me and said, “Are you joking? No way” God forbid he cheat on OW.

            • Oh yes, the “you don’t listen” defense. More like you don’t have anything legitimate to say, asshat.

              • Funny, he didn’t listen when I told him he was behaving inappropriately and acting like a 14 year old with the fawning and texting….

              • @Kimberly, I still have them, they’re in my purse lol. Hopefully someday I meet someone that doesn’t require them! hahaha

              • Kate, same here. I can only hope i find a nice guy, with functional plumbing, before OW goes off the rails. No, it would not be the big regret of my life, to not get the chance, but geez, it’s been a looooooong time. Wonder how the (truly) sexless marriage thing is working out for Asshat. He whined about it for years and now he gets to experience it.

  • Kimmy

    It’s amazing how easy it is for a narc to convince OWhore how much he needs rescuing from his intollersble life. And he ended up with a fuckup just like him.

    I’m laughing at the image of her pretending he’s good in bed and waking up to piss bed. He told her he was tired of supporting me. I wonder how she’s adjusting to him being unemployed five months a year mooching off of her. Hey, it’s a match supported by lies. Until the next opportunity presents itself.

  • Entitlement! Exactly!! They are entitled because _____________ (cheaters fill in blank here)
    Let me fill in my cheating ex’s blank : “I wasn’t the center of attention-but i’m not a narcissist”.
    Now he’s entitled to live with the lies he told and the affect they had on everyone-including himself. Enjoy that Karma cupcake cheating ex !

  • Every individual has the opportunity to cheat. If it were our goal, all of us could have a hook up by dark, most likely. The thing is, I have better things to do with my time than chase strange, disease ridden ass. No interest in it whatsoever.

  • Everyone has the opportunity to be a fool. Opportunity is everywhere, easily available. Some of us exhibit the character not to take the “opportunity” when it presents itself.

    Both the predator cheater and the willing affair partner are responsible for what happens. No matter how they try, they cannot change the facts. If one or both of them was married when the flirtation began, they were cheating from the get go. I do believe some affair partners may be lured and lied to at the beginning — but once they find the truth, they should end the relationship immediately. No relationship built on lies and deception is ever going to be a good one. I think it is the affair partner’s responsibility to check out the initial story the predator tells If either of them are older than 16, they should know the world is full of liars and cheaters. Those who see themselves taking over the role of the wife or husband for personal gain, despite the knowledge that the partner is a cheater should be prepared for the “next time” when they will be the one who is replaced. Those who believe that anyone is “special” and that “rules are for everyone else” are asking for a day of reckoning. If they believe they are entitled, I do not believe they ever “learn” or “change”. They simply look for the next “opportunity” to live outside the bounds of acceptable behavior.

    Some people are “flattered” when a boss or a friend’s spouse come on to them. They do not realize it is because they are easier prey than a random person in the population. After all, introductions have been made, and you have no reason to avoid conversation with them in a social setting. The predator will stalk the easiest prey — they are lazy, as well as entitled. If the prey would only realize they are easier to “bag” than a stranger, perhaps they would not be so “flattered.” Perhaps.

    • “Some of us exhibit the character not to take the “opportunity” when it presents itself”.
      Portia, that is so true. About 8 years ago when I was working in a major corporation I was introduced to my manger’s best friend and biggest client. I was about 55 years old and I considered myself just a wife and mum but this very wealthy widower saw me differently apparently. I thought he was very nice but I loved my husband and I was very married and I could not understand why such a sophisticated man would look at me. I consider myself to be presentable, articulate and very hard working but I was still someone’s wife and mum. I had the opportunity for whatever it may have been but I was not interested. Flattered yes, that someone would take an interest in me. That is all. When my ex husband said he didn’t care one way or the other, that should have been a warning sign. Stupid me kept on being faithful and loyal and loving all to no avail. Your final 2 sentences are spot on as well and I could insert my ex husband’s name in place of the word predator as he has ‘bagged’ a 23 year girl in Cambodia and he is bragging up a storm. He is 63 by the way and he has preyed on this girl and if it wasn’t her, it would be another in that country.

  • Opportunity??? I was hit on by married men so often and single men while I was married. No I never cheated. My ex, he was a serial cheater. Yep, men and women equal opportunity!

  • Well spoken not Juliet!

    “Affairs are about opportunity.” Oh pleeeease. Affairs are about choice. A buffet of all kinds of opportunities surround everyone, every waking moment. Everyone determines their choices from the opportunities presented. Cheaters are determined to feel entitled, and choose poorly, selfishly, and with mind-blowing stupidity.

      • Because nobody would want/desire someone else if they are in love with you and they would NEVER want to hurt someone they love either.

          • Sometimes the simplest statements say it all. Most of us on this forum would not cheat. It’s not part of our makeup. We know the pain that cheating would cause another person and we don’t go there. If you believe in past lives, maybe we are strengthening our character while helping the cheater learn a valuable lesson. Though it would seem some never learn the first time around.

        • Exactly Kate….and if we did fall out of love, we would say it and get out of the relationship because why would we stay with someone we didn´t love? This was the question I would ask myself before I knew of the cheating, when he was acting like an asshole: do I still love him? The answer was always yes, so I thought that I had to do other things: accept him as he is, go to therapy, improve our communication, etc. I never looked at cheating or divorce as a solution because I really believed that I had gone into the marriage knowing his faults and I had accepted them for 15 years. Why should I leave him for that reason? I only decided to divorce when I discovered the cheating because I always promised myself that I would never be with someone that didn´t love me. And for me cheating was the clearest example that he didn´t love me (or anyone, for that matter) because how could the person I loved and trusted most in the world become the one that made me fear and hate him most in the world. Who does that? Only disordered people with lack of character, who think they still have the responsibilities of teenagers even if they are bordering half a century, have jobs, a home and children to take care of.

      • Yes, when I see some cheater o9n a “wayward” supporter forum claiming that he or she continued o love the spouse, despite lyijg, gaslighting, emotionally abusing, exposing to STDs, and ruining the family, I just cringe.
        Why cannot one of the fellow wayward supporters just be truthful and tell the asshole “Look, that is bullshit. You could not possibly love someone and do this to them. What you really mean is that you like the lifestyle that person supplies and have now made a value judgment that it outweighs the strange dick you were sucking ( or insert female equivalent).”.
        WTF is wrong with these folks? I mean wouldn’t you have a little more respect for them if they would just stop this nonsense about “loving” their spouses and admit to the truth?

        • True Arnold, you would never risk losing the person you love! Actually if you’re in love someone, nobody could get your attention. At least that’s how I was, WAS!

        • Well said Arnold and Kate50. Well said.

          If my wife had actually loved me, she could not have done all those things and surely would have done different, nurturing things.

          She might have loved what I provided, loved what I represented, or even loved my companionship, but she obvious did not love me, the real me.

          • So true, Buddy. Another thought though: Did she ever really KNOW you?! My ex didn’t know me. He was not aware of what I wanted, what/who I loved, what I valued! And the person I became over the years was more quietly confident (in spite of his treatment) I just never needed to be in the spotlight? IMHO Cheaters want those who always put their wants and needs first. Sparkley and entitled. Not giving at all. Ex’s friends were all Cheaters too. In our early days I think I was simply a hot piece of ass to him and it was the sex he actually fell in love with! After Dday, he stated he ONLY “married because I thought that was what we did next,” this after EIGHT years of dating (red flag this!) and twenty eight years (and three kids!) together. These people are totally screwed up.

            • Drew–you hit the nail on the head. They don’t WANT to know us. Even early on in the dating game, I got the sense X asked questions about me to know if I fit his criteria and agenda, but had no interest in me as a person. Should have paid more attention to that intuition.

            • Drew,

              I think she did know me:

              – she knew she could count on me to provide for her
              – she knew that I valued the marriage and family so strongly that I would never risk its demise
              – she knew that I cared about her
              – she knew that I loved my kids
              – she knew she could take advantage of all these aspects of my character and personality and use them to get her needs met without worrying about consequences: I was the perfect Plan B; the perfect Landing Pad

              I jest a bit and you are completely right: she never wanted to know me or my needs, because that might mean she’d have to “give” or “provide” something to be, thereby taking away resources and lifestyle from her. She was never interested in joint collaboration, unless the area of concern intersected 100% with her needs-du-jour.

              If she had to do something to meet my needs, she was burdened, inconvenienced and sometimes downright angry and contemptuous.

              But we still had many many great times in our common intersection of activities, and I am still heartbroken and deeply sad that she went so far over the top as to have an affair and lead a secret double life and destroy my life as I knew it.

      • We were commodities to the cheaters. That’s all. It’s a tough pill to swallow, but once you do, everything about their behavior makes sense–their lack of empathy or respect for us, their need for constant praise from whoever will dish it out, their deception without remorse.

        • Yeah Tempest, that explains my stbx’s behavior to a T.

          I’m always hoping that it is just a coincidence, that everyone is motivated to take care of them selves and have a healthy sense of self-focus. But the commodity patterns fits to a T.

          Even faced divorce, she still couldn’t even hoover me for more than a day or two before resuming treating me like a commodity.

  • If affairs are just about opportunity, which indicates lack of impulse control or thought, then so are most crimes. Yet imagine the outcry if those Reddit pundits proclaimed that “Rape is just a crime of opportunity. If a man has a chance to rape, he’s going to take it.” Or, to use CL’s scenario, why isn’t bank robbery about opportunity? I have this gun in my pocket, I’m in a bank, I could use some money….

    The “affairs are about opportunity” crowd are the same ones who call monogamy “unnatural.” Because they are so one-sided and irrational in their argument, you can see through to the truth… they are just selfish, immoral people who enjoy using and tricking others to get what they want, because in their tiny brains, they are the center of the universe.

    One of my ex’s sisters recently told our teen son that “Everyone cheats.” I told son that: 1. That is NOT true, in reality, most people do NOT cheat, and 2. Anyone who says “everyone cheats” is really saying that THEY cheat (I know this for a fact in the case of that particular aunt.)

    • Yup, everyone cheats. Everyone is going to the party, everyone is wearing these sneakers, everyone else gets to do it. I’ve heard cheaters likened to children to many times now, it just gets more and more obvious. I just read about James Fallon (not to be confused with Jimmy) and how he found out he’s a sociopath by comparing MRI’s of serial killers and finding out his brain was the same. The pictures showed a huge difference in comparison with ‘normal’ brains, and what looked to me like a big dark gap. That must be the area where most of us stop believing in ‘everyone’.

      • Speaking about sounding like children, my cheater would tell me to phone his friends to back up his stories, omg! I felt like it was high school or younger. All his friends were cheaters too btw! Birds of the same feather flock together!!!

  • We all have opportunities and we decide whether they are right for us, our family or our lives in general. My husband went out of his way create his opportunities. The first of his ex girlfriends he contacted sent him a lovely photo of her new garden shed (she obviously recognised the signs) and the second a photo of her grandchildren (another savvy lady). The last one ( an ex gf/ an ex fiancee, and a recent widow with health issues) welcomed him with open arms and dropped her knickers 10 days later.

    Yes affairs are about opportunity but not the random kind – they are sought, planned for and created. And there is always someone sooner or later who will participate in whatever that person feels they are entitled to. In my case he chose a rerun of his life so it was back to 25 from 66 and away they went!

    • Exactly oldchump, the cheaters AND their APs know exactly what they are doing every single step of the way, and they keep choosing to step forward toward kibbles and finally to cheating itself.

      They push this awareness to another part of their mind, compartmentalizing, and pretend they don’t know what they are doing until it is too late, and it suddenly “just happened.”

      But it didn’t just happen. Every step, action and response was carefully calculated and fully intentional, but they just don’t want to admit it.

  • Let’s not forget that so many cheaters created “opportunities” when there was really none. Exhibit 1: hitting on a nanny or babysitter who sees the cheater as a predator masquerading as a man.

    • They don’t seem to be very picky either. As long as it has legs, is breathing and is somewhat willing to engage with them on their level, it becomes their opportunity.

  • My view is that they work the rule of percentages and try it on with almost anyone. I know in my husband’s case anyone who was available and willing would have done. They get knocked back and they move on. Somewhere down the line (and the predator in our case was the last one on his list) someone will say yes.

    • Absolutely. I eventually realized that my ex was ALWAYS looking for that one person who would say yes. Basically, he knocked on every door until opportunity opened it.

      • Also, Fishing: My stbxh would throw out bait (opportunity, to ow) and see what surfaced.
        And, Grooming: The emotional affair preceding the actual sex made him feel like less of a scum bag, because he had an “emotional” connection. It was laughable, because it was all lies… he groomed her with the “my wife doesn’t love me” line, and other 6th grade love-letter crap.

  • So endlessly trolling online sex sites until he found a local bdsm slut was NOT a sign that he is an immoral asshat, but merely an unavoidable opportunity? Who knew?!

  • All of life is opportunity. Opportunity for anything is out there.. all the time… I could rob a bank, or kill someone, or cheat. What separates people with values and morals with people who don’t is that we control these urges. We aren’t animals. We are responsible for our choices.

    And who wants to be the marriage police? Not me. No thanks, I don’t want to be someone’s parole officer.

    • Very true. Gotta admit I have never even considered robbing a bank…. Hope things are a little sunnier these days for you 🙂

      • Does working for a bank and misappropriating funds count? That is what my ex did!! Everyone thinks he is such a great bloke.

  • It’s opportunity, alright; opportunity to be an asshole.

    I “turn down” such opportunities multiple times per day.

    Too bad that my stbxw didn’t; which is why she’s my stbxw! 😉

  • Wait, if cheating is about Opportunity then my ex lived on Opportunity Rd in the suburb of Opportunity where the weather was cloudy with a hundred percent chance of opportunity in the country US opportunity of A.

  • We ALL have the opportunity to cheat. It’s just that decent people choose to correctly make all of the little decisions that enforce boundaries…even if their spouse is nowhere in sight.

    Cheaters, on the other hand, don’t enforce boundaries. With their APs, they make a multitude of little decisions that lead to desire, and then action, and then claim, “I didn’t mean for it to happen,” “It just happened,” or some other such nonsense.

    What’s the line from The Last Boy Scout? “It was an accident, right? You tripped, slipped on the floor and accidentally stuck your dick in my wife.”

    Exactly.

    • Took me a couple of weeks to remember this after D-Day, but that line sums it up.
      I love that movie. Unfortunately I never got to play head or gut, and the dog my wife chose to get was the AP. Mmmm Shitsandwich, at least I have a bourbon and chocolate shake to wash it down with.

  • So how do the unicorns explain the “opportunity” of a Married Dating site? The cheater “creates” their own opportunity by systematically setting up a profile, and hunting down an affair partner, then arranging a meeting, etc. etc. That’s what my ex did….. It was no accident, it was well planned out.

  • Oh yes – the ‘opportunity’ to go get himself another phone line so he could sext other women. Or how about the Yahoo account to flirt with fantasy women. Opportunity knocks when his wife is so horrible and neglectful and had a fictitious affair 15 fucking years ago. Oh please…

  • Here’s what the disordered fuckwit had the OPPORTUNITY to do:
    He had the opportunity to talk to me 24/7/365 about his restlessness and dissatisfaction. Didn’t take it.
    He had the opportunity to see a therapist for free anytime in the last three years since I got my awesome job with full benefits. Didn’t use it.
    He had the opportunity to model healthy life choices and problem solving skills for his son who idolized him. Blew it.
    He had the opportunity to honorably divorce me or ask for a separation. Chickened out.
    He had the opportunity to enjoy and rely upon stability, security, commitment, and support. Crapped all over it.
    He had the opportunity to be loved and respected and cared for forever by me. Rejected it.
    Now he has the OPPORTUNITY to kiss my sweet ass goodbye.

  • Cheaters always seem to believe their affair was so spontaneous and unplanned, as though it was not in any way premeditated but just fell on them like an avalanche and they never saw it coming. I never bought this. I know a lot of posters here have been hurt by “Jesus Cheaters” but I think Jesus didn’t buy this excuse either. When asked about outward circumstances, “opportunity”, being the cause of people behaving badly he replied, “There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him” he put to rest the “opportunity” excuse. There is nothing on the outside to blame for a cheaters behavior and he went on to state where it springs from, “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders” It starts right in their inner core being. They desire it, think on it, plan it, and only then do they act on it. I guarantee you there was not one ounce of surprise in the outcome.

  • If that were true, then how come after I caught my wife cheating on me it took me seconds to play out every scenario in my head where I could have cheated and instead chose to keep our relationship safe and treat her with respect..

    I have to remind myself that I shouldn’t feel like I missed out and should have snuck around and lied for sex.. I have to remind myself that I had good intentions and my reasons were based on good values and me putting my family first. I wouldn’t have been able to sleep well and keep the secrets. I shouldn’t be ashamed and feel like less of a man because I ran like hell when confronted with ‘opportunity’ to have sex outside of my marriage. My marriage was more important to me than getting all tingly over some new person or in one case an old person that I had fantasized and had a crush on for years… I taught myself how to appreciate my wife and be satisfied with what she had to offer. Even when she was also offering it all to someone else and keeping it a secret from me. Even with my needs not being met and me having many opportunities.. I managed to stay true to my vows for 27 years.

    “Opportunity” is as valid a ‘reason’ as the ‘everybody is doing it’ reason many 12 year olds use .. add it to the stupid shit cheaters say.

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