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UBT: “I Don’t Even Like Him”

dontlikeToday’s Universal Bullshit Translation is “I don’t even like him” sent in by Josh.

Yes, that person you risked our entire relationship for, finances, children’s home life, shared history — You Didn’t Even Like Him.

Cheaters would have us believe that fucking them was a chore. Utterly repellant! They never came.

And it was so distasteful, so awful, and they feel such antipathy for this person, they had to create secret Facebook accounts to message them, and get secret cell phones, and sneak around — all to have time with this person they heartily disdain.

And aren’t attracted to.

And don’t respect.

And they were thinking of you All The Time!

Now, for those of you chumps who had cheaters who did nothing but wax poetic about the affair partner, you might at some level envy the chumps who got the “I don’t even like him” mindfuckery. Don’t. “I don’t even like him” is a play for cake. Maybe, just maybe they like you better! Won’t you do a pretty pick me dance to ensure your place in their affections?

What is a chump to make of this?

You value me SO MUCH that you risked everything we had together for someone you DON’T LIKE? And you went back for seconds and thirds? What, do I disgust you that much?

(Cue the sad sausage, broken, self destructive, coping mechanism excuses.)

Proper chump response?

“I don’t like you either.”


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  • I got a version of that as well. My cheating ex said he loved having sex with her, but then hated himself after every time he did it. Kind of like a bad drug.

    Wow. Any ounce of respect went out the window after that Peter Pan moment.

    I’m trying to raise our babies and keep the house together (while also working full-time). You just go on ahead with your OW-drug. Be gone!

    • Peter Pan moment. Love it! Once again the narcs think that the scale of judgment & balance rests with them. Who cares who they like. They wouldn’t know judgment if I threw the rock of Peter at them… just sayin.

      • Two things: Cheating husband got a hard on, ergo, he liked and was sexually attracted to her.
        Seconcd, cheating wife lubricated, therefore, she liked and was sexually aroused by O M.
        The physical responses prove this.

    • I got same response from Fuckwit about Troll Hobbit.
      FW: “I don’t like her”, “She’s not attractive”, “She’s not interesting”, etc.

      Me: Really? Well then, don’t you feel dumb throwing your family away over a bucktoothed midget you don’t even like. I guess you’re a special kind of stupid!

      I don’t think disordered fucks like him truly “like” anyone. It’s all about cake & kibbles. When one supply is gone, they find another source. In my experience, each source gets more & more to the bottom of the desperate skank barrel.

      • After discovery, Cheater claimed not to be at all enthralled with his dominatrix-switch “friend” who he ” just happened to meet at the Supermarket.” He said she was old and flabby and she was a down on her luck desperado and they never “really” had sex (uh huh). Later when I found her picture on an escort site, I realized his total B.S. I was just so wanting to believe the naugahyde remorse. When I showed him the picture, he was SHOCKED! He had “no idea” she was a prostitute!!! and as far as her va-va-va-voom figure and young age he claimed they must have been old pictures. Through every discovery, it was always the same B.S. spiel plus or minus a few embellishments.
        I weep at my own naivete.

    • I got a version of this too, something along the lines of … I never loved him .. I always loved you … he was very persistent and pursued me which felt good and he was relentless and wouldn’t take no for an answer … but I never liked him and he isn’t a good person like you and he is a narcissist and so forth.

      But the truth is that she fell DEEPLY in love with him, with the fantasy that he represented, and in the end, he did not leave his wife for her, and she is STILL deeply in love with him and still pines for an easier life.

      • Buddy, that’s amusing … “he wouldn’t take no for an answer.” My cheater said something similar: “She was all over me like a train wreck.” The poor timid little forest creatures.. were they raped by their APs?

        • Ha! Mine too. “She’s hurting because her husband is mean to her – she needs me”… “No, DON’T call her husband and let him know we are having an affair because he will be mean to her even more now” W. T. F.

          • & No, I don’t love her. She’s kinda crass in a tanned, dyed blonde kinda way but you know, we don’t really get along anymore… (hmmm bcs you are fucking other people)

  • My ex would do this. He would always talk bad about his exes to make himself look and feel better. But I knew it was bullshit. And he would still go back to them when we’d fight because they we’re so “awful”!!! He never liked that I called him on his crap. He even talked bad about me to his “girlfriend” while we were still married. But when she left him he came back to me crying and telling me all the bad things about her. He’s so crazy 🙁

    • yep. please tell me you changed the locks. This kind of crazy need boundary therapy.

  • If that isn’t a form of gas lightening then what is….geez. These cheaters and the people they “don’t even like” really are just plain stupid.

    These cheaters will never ever know how to tell the truth if their lives depended on it. Pure sickos!!!!!

    Josh, I hope you kick that person out of your life and don’t look back and go no contact with that fool.

    • “I don’t even like [name]” is the flip side of “I know it was wrong, but I couldn’t help myself!”

      Gaslighting, indeed. “It’s not my fault! I don’t even like him/her/them! I just couldn’t help myself! I’m a timid forest creature! I’m lost, and until I find my way back to you, I have to fuck every other piece of strange until I find my way back home.”

  • “I don’t even like him” is a feeble attempt to comfort the chump. To de-fuse the chump who is about to explode. And it can be true too: the cheater is having an affair because the cheater is bored and likes nobody.
    The cheater wants some action: be driven away on weekends, move out and move in somewhere else with someone else, use whatever and whomever is available as long as there is some attraction.
    Basically, the cheater is unhappy, a spoilt brat who cannot do any introspection. Reacting like an animal to external circumstances, without guidance, without logic. Also without empathy, because the only person that counts in the eyes of the cheaters are themselves. The rest is the set for the movie that is their life.

    • You said: “I don’t even like him” is a feeble attempt to comfort the chump.

      Exactly When you’re trying to secure cake, this tactic goes over a lot better than “The sex was aMAzing! She is wayyy better than you in bed!”

    • ChumpFromF

      When they give the excuse of being bored it usually translates into we are not meeting their needs. Blame shifting pure and simple. The attraction they seek out has little to do with looks. This has been my experience right up to the final DDay with miss piggy. It’s all about the needs of the disordered who cannot love or be happy with anyone.

      • Blameshifting “We are not meeting their needs”: in most cases, I don’t think so, Donna. They don’t think in terms of “meeting needs” and do not know what their needs are. Knowing one’s needs requires introspection, something they never do. It’s much simpler than that IMO: “I am bored, therefore I look for excitement”. And if the other available person is not so good in the looks department, it takes only imagination to find the person attractive.

        • And, on what freakin’ planet do these cheating f-ers think that THEY are somehow Spouse Of The Decade, or that they ever met any of OUR needs?? What all these cheating douchebags forget is that they ARE NOT as wonderful as they think they are, and we have all the spackled-away proof.

          They were always too busy scheming against their spouse, their children, their families, and futures to be concered with how any of us boring ‘ol LOYAL spouses could have possibly felt, or what emotional or physical “needs” we may have ever had, or that we were basically alone and unloved for a majority of the time we wasted on them. Pshhhhhtt!! “Who cares?? I’m a cheater, and my needs are the only ones that matter! Waaahh!! I’m so tortured and a victim of my loyal spouse and family!”

          With these cheaters, if their mouths were moving, or even when they weren’t, we just have to trust that they suck!! Always have, and always will where our lives are concerned.

          • EXACTLY. My STBX acts like he was the model spouse.. and I was just mean and cold. But maybe I wasn’t into sex or was so tired all the time because I was doing virtually ALL THE WORK and he wasn’t doing SHIT. Sure wasn’t putting any emotional effort into me. He bought me gifts and in his view, that was “showing love”. He grabbed my ass so that was “showing love”… but he never invested in me as a person.

            Yet all the marital issues are my fault. And my anxiety and uneasiness is all to do with my crappy personality and has nothing to do with the spidey sense that something was amiss and I was never sure when the next shoe would drop.

            • OHMIGOSH, newchumpatl – I totally forgot about that!! I forgot that over the years, I was just supposed to know how much he loved me because he’d pinch my butt while I was:
              – Washing clothes
              – Washing dishes
              – Cleaning bathrooms
              – Picking up kids’ rooms
              – Paying bills
              – Juggling money to fund his failed business
              – Doing half of the yard work
              – ALL while he was cheating on me & my children

              Yeah – I felt SOOoooOOO loved. Nothing like a pinch on my butt to suffice all of my emotional and physical needs.

              What a jerk I was to not notice or feel how loved I was with my butt being pinched all the time. Dang!

              Yeah – right. So glad we’re rid of that crap. (((hugs, girl.)))

              • Oh, and meanwhile, in-spite of my butt being pinched to death, I was BEGGING for physical attention, affection, intimacy and his T I M E. You know, the one thing we can never get back.

                What a dumbass.

              • Kibble free, my ex’s version of the butt pinch war the Breast Grab. Apparently grabbing me like that anytime he wanted was supposed to be a turn on. One gigantic red flag was that he would say “I’mgonna rape you”. Since the gold standard for all human behavior now is Fuckable you are to all other humans, this was supposed to be a good thing, I guess. Like u was so sexy, it just couldn’t be helped. Ughhhh, I’m so dusgusted thinking back on that.

              • I also got the boob pinches. It was supposed to send me into a sexual frenzy regardless of what other menial task I had on my mind at the time.

                I appreciated the affection but what I really needed was help. The irony is, of course, I am still doing all the work.. all the work that counts and he’s out living the life chasing girls on and I suppose trying to woo the first whore.. although I think she may have dumped him. Pathetic. What I really wanted was intimacy.. which of course, is not the same as sex.

              • Aah, the gratuitous pinching and grabbing. After Asshat moved out and I was doing the Chumpty Dance in double time, he would come for dinner, sidle over and then smack me on the butt in a CLEARLY winning way. I told him it bothered me that he said he wanted to make time to date yet the best he could do was smack me on the ass! Gah!

              • LOL. Mine didn’t pinch, he slapped me on the butt like a horse. No matter how many times I asked him to stop, he wouldn’t. He’d just laugh when I got mad and say I wasn’t any fun.

              • I was surprised to read this, I thought my cheater was the only one who did this! The gratuitous butt and boob groping or humping my backside, always when I was doing something else, so I couldn’t defend myself. I came to see it as a dominance thing, definitely not sensual, just creepy. Like when I was washing dishes, he would grab my boobs and say “careful, don’t drop that dish, you might break it!” So hilarious, and in front of the kids too. Ugh. I asked him repeatedly to stop, and got the same thing: “you’re no fun!” “I’m a touchy person and you’re so cold!” And that’s one reason he had to cheat: I’m so cold, and dislike physical affection!!

              • It was ALWAYS about his needs. However they justify it in their disordered illogical fucked up brain typically involves blame shifting.

                I got the sexless circular assrub from limp dick who made me pay for my Easter dinner while visiting my son at college a month before DDay. He wondered why I wasn’t interested. Golly gee, treat your whore months later for a vacation. I wasn’t worth a fucking 25.00 meal. Yup, that door will never open again.

              • OMG. They are all the same: I got “she´s not even my type” and the butt pinching! I HATED the butt pinching. I told him for many years to change to something I liked, for example, a kiss on the neck. But no, he had to do the butt pinching and would get mad at me when I recoiled. He even threatened me: “when I stop pinching your butt you should start worrying.” And so it was…

            • The assgrabbing and breastpinching! Plus the goddamn tickle-pinching. He actually trotted these out as ways I wasn’t meeting his needs. As in, “you get all jumpy when I try to show affection.”
              Yeah, you fuckhead, because you pinched me!
              Hated that shit, do not miss that AT ALL.

              • I got the ‘you’re no fun’ when he’d pretend he was going to drive the car into a ditch or over a guard rail and I didn’t laugh. I’d get the ‘you’re not affectionate’ whenever I didn’t nurse him or change his diaper or scratch his back.

              • Holy crap, another item to add to the Cheater Handbook. How is it that they all literally do the same thing?! Yes to the random groping/pinching, no matter how much I objected (I’m now thinking *because* I objected). And also ditto on never actually doing the kind of touching that I actually found pleasurable – despite me telling him what that was. I think you’re right: it was all about control. Deliberately touching us in ways we found creepy, and not touching us in ways we wanted.

              • OMG. Yup mine too. He would always smack my ass all the time. I never realized how objectifying it was. It’s like the only way these cheaters can “connect” to someone is through something sexual. The most difficult concept for me to grasp when it comes to cheating is that to me sex is something I can only do with someone I’m comfortable with and I really thought our sex life was special. An intimate thing that happened between two people who loved and cared for each other. After being cheated on it felt like I was just a body to him. I could have been anyone. I really felt like I was just a sex object for our whole relationship. UGH these people are absolute creeps.

              • Daphne-
                Same here. The butt smack/pinch, the boob groping in front of the kids… And yes after the cheating, sex became meaningless. I often cried during and/or afterward because at that point I realized it meant nothing to him anymore. I’m certain he noticed me crying on occassion, but never said/did anything about it. Why? Because he could give a shit how I felt. It was all about him and him getting off.

          • KFMM: “And, on what freakin’ planet do these cheating f-ers think that THEY are somehow Spouse Of The Decade, or that they ever met any of OUR needs??”

            You tell it, girl!! Thinking back, did I ever get many acts of affection that weren’t a play for sex? no. Any cards expressing his undying love? No (though he certainly received plenty of those from me, of which I was reminded when I packed up a few of those from me to him when he moved to his sad little apartment). Compliments out of the blue? Few and far between. Random gifts or flowers, just to show he cared? Hahaha.

            • Tempest,
              I think the 31 million men on AM should just give your Ex a ring… Cause men have A hole too. If I had more free time… I would give him my anal sex talk… you know, the one I was saving for my kids about how to make it hurt less (learned it from a midwife).
              (no bitterness today guys… btw…I love CN)

            • Yep, Tempest & all others above – we were living the same LAME ASS lives, just with different douchebags thinking these juvenile groping attepts of “affection” were what women of value and mightiness “need” or even “want.” It should have been a massive signal to us, but we just kept going to Lowes & Home Depot for the 5 gallon tubs of spackle.


            • This is why the ift repeated, underanalyzed mantra that the BS is 50% responsible for pre-affair problems is total bullshit.
              Look, a BS is deali g with a wife or husband who, by definition, ,zcks i tdgfity, empathy, a sense of fair play, problem solving ability, and communication skill, just to mention a few deficiencies.
              Does anyone espousing this 50/50 bullshit ever stop to think about the possibility that someone who cheats and, therefore demonstrates the aforementioned lack of those qualities, just might have been the primary source of all the problems in the marriage?
              People love catchy little phrases like the 50% deal and do no real analysis. It just sounds kind of neat and catchy. So, they just blurt it out enough so other idiots accept it blindly. Makes me sick.

        • I’d be hard-pressed to find a phrase I hate more than “I’m bored.” Like it’s somebody else’s job to keep you entertained. Since my kids were little, I’ve always told them that boredom is a sign of a lazy mind. Hey, cheaters! Boring people get bored!

        • I think my ex learned a more sophisticated form of gas-lighting from couple’s therapy and the bit of one infidelity book I made him read, after Affair #1. At first it was just ‘I want to fuck her’ and ‘but I’m not happy, you’re not as nice to me as you used to be (after 7 years of increasing negativity, control and general unpleasantness from him)!’, but he learned about ‘you’re not meeting my neeeeeeeeeeds!’ from the RIC.

          Funny how nobody ever asked whether he was making any effort at all to meet my needs, or what pathology made him feels his needs weren’t being met when I, and later the kids too, was bending over backwards and working my ass off to try to help him be happy.

          • After D-day, when I sadly said I had never feel cherished by X, he responded, “I’m sorry my being resentful because…[you suck]… led me not to cherish you.” Master Blameshifter, that one.

    • I agree there is some truth to the statement that “I don’t even like him.” Cheating is a doomed attempt to fill up an empty, unhappy self that is void of dignity and self-respect. Unless they are completely delusional, I do think some (many?) cheaters have fleeting moments when they are perfectly aware of the evil they are committing and that their enjoyment of the deception, the secrecy, the mind-fuckery and all the rest is a sign that something is really wrong with them. I suspect there is a certain amount of self-loathing mixed in with the narcissism, which makes a really toxic brew. As much as they enjoy the thrill of the illicit relationship, they also loathe the AP as they loathe themselves. They aren’t conscious of this of course, but it is still there. The AP is part of the sick behavior, so it makes perfect sense to me that the cheater “doesn’t like” him or her. Anyone who is willing to get in bed with someone else’s spouse shows lack of character, lack of integrity, lack of self-respect, and lack of quality. I think even cheaters know this.

      • Well said, Wren. I too feel there are moments – fleeting for sure – where the cheaters see how rotten they are.

      • The thing to remember is that Narcissus fell in love with his own reflection which in turn could not love him back..

        It is unrequited self-love.

        The problem for chumps is not to let our overweaning empathy try to sheilf them from this pain…they are too busy self-spackling to appreciate our care.

        My ex never did this gambit. He is one who “fell in love” because there is just something “ineffable” about OW.

        At that point I was still trying to be civil so I didn’t say, “Really? I thought the whole point was that she was eff-able.”

        At MC he said “I just feel like I have to see this through.” Meaning his affair…not his marriage and parenthood.

        And I did say, “Well, I know this isn’t the last time I will say this, but this is the only bed you made in the 20 years we were together…go lie in it.”

        • “Really? I thought the whole point was that she was eff-able.” – ha brilliant!

          So sorry you lost that joke opportunity.

      • I agree with everyone above that it is probably true on a deeper level that the cheater “didn’t even like” the OW/OM. Also agree that by definition, they don’t “like” themselves, deep down past the sparkle level. The third leg of this is that the cheater also “didn’t even like” US. That was the hardest for my prideful chumpy heroic-rescuer girl-scout earnest etc etc self to absorb and accept. He really hated on me in every way that matters. And he knew exactly what he was doing. And he chose to be like that every single day, for years of me diplomatically trying to “help him understand” how he might be more aware of how hurtful XYZ really was to me. And he would just — pretend to be a poor befuddled adult-kid raised by wolves who reaaaalllllly wanted to do better. Has one of the highest IQs in America. Seriously. But he never changed anything at all, except to become more brutal and less sparkly, until the whole naked beast was finally revealed. Decades of his knowing deception. From my best friend, lover, spouse. Who actually hated me. Yes I am so special.

        • Lorelei

          We have a perfect match minus the IQ. X was never too bright, wasn’t motivated by anything but cheating. Guess I saw potential that was never there. Nothing worse than being hated by a dumb serial cheating asshole narcissist. That is other than being the drug addict sleazy whore who settled for the limp dick and has to change the sheets after he wets the bed, and has to drive him to his dr appointments. The timing was finally in my favor. Thinking I got the better deal after all.

          • Looking at it that way, the Downgrade has a lot to look forward to, LOL.

            It’s a longie, but I have been reading about the gift in the curse. At the end of our long, faithful marriages, once we find our feet, we have actual life skills.

            Our cheaters will have syphilis, most likely.

            The timing IS in our favor.


            • Hahahah Meh! Let’s seeeee sez NPh: which door shall I choose, SKILLS or SYPHILIS?! Dingdingdingding aaaand congratulations it is SYPHILIS for Mr NPh!!!

  • It did occur to me at several points throughout my marriage, and most certainly after the shock of D-day had died down, that I did NOT actually like my cheater a lot of the time. Hasta la vista, baby.

    • Oh Tempest, I know for a fact I hated the ex and still do to this day. I have no doubt in my mind how I feel about him and his followers. Just the idea of his name makes my skin crawl. The stuff I have learned about him I know why I had so many red flags about him when I meet him many years ago. I haven’t even come near to the many things I have found out about him. It is too mental to even write about and it is to hard for me also.

      I can recall when he would kiss me good bye for the day (after D-day) I couldn’t kiss him. I couldn’t touch him. Well let’s say I know I hated him. Just looking at him made me sick to my stomach. The things he did and the stuff I found out over the years is very alarming. Sadly he has gotten away some really nasty stuff.

      • Identical experience Beth. On one hand, I still have hope that the karma bus will hit him and he hasn’t got away with his despicable behavior, but I also know that would hurt my young son so I’m letting God (the universe) work it all out.

        • Thank you movin_on. Thankfully I don’t have kids with the ex. It almost happened a few times but I miscarried. For some reason I don’t think God (the universe) doesn’t really care how much damage and pain the ex cause and these other cheaters and the AP and their followers. It’s been years since our split and he got everything he wanted. I just don’t see karma bus will ever hit him and his life. He basically got away with everything. GRRRRR!!!!!! Just pisses me off.

          • Beth, I have a theory. It may be hare-brained, but I have seen it happen too many times to chalked it up to chance. When someone deeply and deliberately hurt a family member, friend or myself, and we were waiting for the karma bus to pull up on the jackass who did the damage, the longer it took for the bus to arrive, the greater the impact when it finally did. Sometimes it took several years, but then, POW! I know your sick sub-human ex was a heinous abomination. I’m sending you lots of hugs – I truly know how incredibly frustrating this is.

            • Believe me, they aren’t getting away with anything! They have to live in that “shell” of a body with a brain that functions on one current…… Find a piece of ass! It’s just one empty scenario after another for these types of human excrement! Look at it this way, we were spared! The universe in its infinite mercy knew we deserved better! As for myself, I’m going to grab what is left of my life and live it to the fullest! My cheater is all but done and he is very sick and old! Now he is probably realizing that his fantasy whore is just that! He probably lives with worry everyday that she’ll leave him because he’s NOT going to get better! I love karma!

              • Thank you, Roberta! I have a wonderful life now. It took me many years but I am living a great life. I still would love some karma on his ass and soul mate. I know that they are bat shit crazy. Trust me in writing that. I lived and was married to that asshole for many years and I saw many things that the sick bastard did to me and to others. He is very sneaky and twisted asshole. I count my blessings that I got out and very thankful I didn’t have kids with him. Still would love to see that day or days when the karma freight train hit them both and his lovely followers.

            • Oh, thank you so much Boudica Reborn!!!! Yes, it is extremely frustrating to see how him and her (ow) in pictures and their perfect life. I cannot explain to you how sick in my stomach it makes me. All the pain both of them have caused is well you know. It’s good to read that I’m not the only one that feels these things also. Thank you again for the support. Your comments have helped me. Hugs right back to you my dear friend! Much love to you also.

          • Beth, I’m sorry for the pain I imagine your miscarriages caused. That is devastating.

            Mine is also living the life now – new girl, new house, new sports car, etc. But that was who he was when *we* began dating and I’ve seen behind the curtain (he’s overextended financially and cheating on the girl, etc.).

            I’m glad you’ve created a great new life for yourself! That’s the best revenge!

            • Thank you movin_on. Yes, the miscarriages were very painful. The last d-day wasn’t long after the miscarriage and in fact just got the ok to start trying again from the my doctor and that is what I thought we were trying to do and then the last d-day. When the last miscarriage happen he wasn’t supportive at all. I don’t want to go in details but of course it was my fault and I wasn’t expected to take the time I needed to recover physically and mentally. I can recall a few weeks later he blamed me for not wanting his baby. Mental bat shit crazy asshole!!!!!

              • I must say this I am very happy and lucky in a way also that I didn’t have kids with the ex. Yes, the miscarriages were very hard and painful but if I had kids with the ex I know he would do everything in his power legal and illegal to get the kids and take them away from me and I would never see them again. How I know because that is how his family was also. Also how he fought over a sofa and other things in the divorce I just know how he would be over the custody of kids. The mental thing also that he really didn’t care out things like the sofa when we were together and was not even interested in looking or picking out furniture when we were together. Most of the time I had to beg for him to go shopping with me to pick things out. He got so pissed off with the things I took from the house when I did. Just think how bad it would be with kids.

                Now the ow now wife has that issue because they have 2 very young kids now. It will be an evil and frightening fight for those kids if that day ever comes.

                Not my circus, not my monkeys!

    • Just saw Hanibal with his new younger wife, yesterday picking up my son. He looked like a crated house dog. Drunk on wine to keep him from realizing where he is.

      Wow. Payback is a bitch.

      I actually felt sorry for the mother fucker.

      I looked at her and him then to the heavens and thanked God for my freedom from the disordered.

      • Calamity Jane, ain’t it great? I’m not sure I can even summon up a little pity for my turd! He deserves everything he gets and more! I would only want to remind him how he put me through the grinder to have his new sparkly life!! What an asshole he is!

        • I thanked the OM. Seriously, my XW was a total asshole, mezner than a rattlesnake. No empathy. Just a mean, selfish woma who looked good and who kept her mask on until enmeshment.

      • CalamityJane

        On Wine

        Great imagery of a true idiot. Picking up his child in that condition is so inappropriate or is she his new designated driver?

        • Donna –

          My son is an adult. We shared a ride to his father’s house, where he was invited for dinner, because it was on the way to property I own and wanted to check on. I dropped him off then picked him up on my way home.

          • Sorry CJ I didn’t realize your son was an adult. I was so used to driving the X because he would have 5 drinks to my one glass of wine. X has a new chauffeur. Their sparkly days are numbered once the newness fades.

    • Yes, Tempest. I can certainly relate to this. I used to like him but the older he got, the harder it was to like him because he got meaner and meaner. My kids have mentioned this too- he was a great dad when they were little but they can barely tolerate him now. Sadly, I believe his children and I loved my STBX more than anyone else in his life ever, even his mother. It still wasn’t enough. I feel his decay is tragic and continue to pray for a miracle for him. But I pray for him from afar.

      • Nicole, I can really relate to your comments. I was the same with the ex the older he got he just got so damn hateful and mean. I couldn’t say anything to him for many years without having to deal with one of his rage tantrums. It was very frightening most of the time. I never knew what was going to upset him. I was always walking on eggshells. He was always on the edge of something and I always had to (well in a sense) to calm him down not to jump over this invisible cliff. There were times he would come home and I would pretend to be taking a nap or sneak outside pretending I was doing something in the yard anything not to deal with his hourly mood swings.

        Even the dog turned on him and would just start barking at him for no reason. The dog use to love that guy.

        Over the years when I would be with him I could see this darkness in him well taking him over. When we started dating he was a very nice and charming person even before D-day I could see him changing and not for the good. Every week (before and after D-day) he would get into an arguments with me for no reason. Then he would just leave the house yelling and screaming in the street. It is hard to explain but it was like the devil himself was taking the ex over.

        I have see pictures of him (after many years of not seeing him and many years since the divorce) and his eyes are missing life I guess. I have shown friends of mine that never knew the ex and told them that was the ex and they just look at me and ask me what did I see in him and they also make a comment saying they can tell he isn’t a nice person. Very sad.

        I never could in my life understand what happen with our marriage and to him but in the last year or so and I fully know now he has a Cluster B Personality Disorder. Still no excuse what all of the pain he has caused but I know it wasn’t my fault and the best thing I did was to leave and go no contact with him and everyone around him.

        I am still healing but I am much better than I was a couple of years ago.

        • Beth- Yes indeed I understand everything you experienced. When we married my stbx was so fun and full of life but I would see glimpses into a dark side of him. He allowed the darkness to gradually take him over. I noticed myself avoiding him whenever possible, hoping that good guy would return. He blamed his darkness on me but now that we’ve been separated and pretty much no contact for over a year, he is worse than ever. I now fully understand his behavior has nothing to do with me. Understanding Cluster B has really helped me and I believe there is a spiritual component to his slide into darkness as well. I too am healing and have come a long way in a year but still have a ways to go. You are further along on this journey and I enjoy reading your experiences.

        • Hardy-har Beth! I busted out laughing when you said even the dog turned on him he was such a piece of excrement! Too funny.

        • Beth, my ex had a dark side, too – horrible rages. Your comment about your dog reminded me of something. I adopted a shelter dog that became very protective of me… Followed me everywhere. Whenever my then husband would sit next to me on the couch or hug me, the dog would get in between us and try to push H away. He never growled or was aggressive about it, and he was friendly to H in general, but dog clearly did not want him close to me. (Dog didn’t mind if the kids were near me in any way.) Dog also slept every night on the floor on my side of the bed. After H moved out the dog no longer wanted to stay around me and would constantly run off. Perhaps the dog knew I was no longer in any danger. It was so strange…

            • I wonder if MightyCat is totally thinking, “I TOLD you so!” The first night Asshat stayed at my house, she leapt up onto the bed, pinned his foot down and chomped down hard on his Achilles tendon. God, I love my cat 😀

              • The guinea pig he bought me wouldn’t purr for him, only me. It used to bug him but then guinea pig actually got devalued too. He wouldn’t hold him because he didn’t want fur on his shirt.

                Animals usually know.

              • Oh my dear dog (she passed away a few years ago) knew the ex was up to something. She was the most easy going dog out there. I can recall when it started and I thought she just saw something wrong outside but no it was toward the ex. She turned on him fast. I didn’t understand it at first but when the ex and I split up I thought about it and that great light bulb moment. She also would sleep with me and I brought her every where after the ex and I split up. I thought he loved that girl but he never asked about her. Very sad.

                I have a cat now and remarried and the cat loves loves loves I mean loves my hubby and he loves her also. They are always together. It is sweet to see that. When my hubby and I are around any animal they always come running to him and just love being around him. Now that is a good sign of a good person if you ask me. Also my hubby is always asking me how is “our baby” doing (meaning the cat). Another good sign of a great person.

        • Oh, Beth, so much of this exactly as you wrote it. In the past two years I barely sat down after coming home, dishes, laundry, shower to scrub, anything to keep out of his way and not say something to make him angry.

          ” I couldn’t say anything to him for many years without having to deal with one of his rage tantrums. It was very frightening most of the time. I never knew what was going to upset him. I was always walking on eggshells. He was always on the edge of something and I always had to (well in a sense) to calm him down not to jump over this invisible cliff. There were times he would come home and I would pretend to be taking a nap or sneak outside pretending I was doing something in the yard anything not to deal with his hourly mood swings.”

          Thank goodness it will soon be over!

          • My soon X just ignored me for the most part, he was on his cell phone all the time, glued to the thing. He was critical to me though always letting me know the way I should have done things, or I bought to much, or not enough, or the wrong things (referring to groceries as an example). I just couldn’t win with him.

      • Nicole: And what drives me crazy is the lose-lose situation they put us in. X was getting nastier to me, to the kids, to the dog. I stop responding to him physically and think “Why am I even doing this, I don’t like him.” He then justifies my lack of enthusiasm to bang a graduate student 34 years younger than him. You can’t win with these MFers; just have to escape.

        • Yes it is a lose, lose situation in my case too. My whole life was built around my husband, my kids and my husband’s family because my family lives 600 miles away. I miss my old life but I don’t miss the verbal and emotional abuse at all. My in-laws have completely shunned me even though I have done nothing to them. There is no winning here. I can’t move back to my family because my stbx said he would not make it easy on the kids if I moved them away. Thank goodness for my kids (very loyal to me), my friends, my church and a wonderful job. They are my new family and community now, but it is not the same but some day I have faith it will be better than what I had before with the nutjob and his nutty family.

          • Nicole S, Tempest and Beth – WOW, I could have written so many of the same points you shared in this thread, it is scary how similar these characters are.

            It is a LOSE-LOSE situation, and written documentation of his actions is the only way to save my sanity.

            Thanks to your generosity in sharing your stories and resources, I am convinced that divorcing him (with my head held high) is the best possible long-term outcome for my kid and me.

    • I too can’t look at my soon to be x. The rose color glasses are off, and I see things sooo differently now.

  • It never made sense to me at all.
    “She meant nothing to me.”
    Er… So you risked everything for nothing? Noted. But not falling for it.

    • The thing is they aren’t usually risking anything, and they know it. Most people unfortunately try reconciliation, especially if they have children, and this sets in motion a cycle of cake eating that exceeds the cheater’s wildest expectations. Every time something they do gets excused or minimized, the shit sandwich buffet becomes even more appealing to them, cause they got the whore and the spouse, and most tantalizing of all, they all know it. Ughhhh.

      • Just seems to reinforce that there are no consequences for them, giving them the freedom to do whatever they want without caring who they destroy in the process. Sad that this will be the future for the next generation, the children.

      • I think you are right, Anita, and I always felt my Cheater was quite certain he would never be caught. He was also stupid not to realize as the payer on our phone account that I could log in and see the numbers he was calling which is how he got caught. So there was, at least in his mind, no risk ever. He counted on me being a chumpy chump forever.

        • My cheater had the ‘no consequences’ triple play going;

          – I am so magnificent that I don’t even have to think about any possible consequences to any of my choices or behaviours.
          – I will never get caught.
          – if I do get caught, I can do like the first time; enjoy the affair for a while, then Karen will take me back and I can bask in how hard she works to try to make me happier.

          Didn’t work out so well for him. But it did work out well for the kids and I! We’re much happier without him around.

          • KarenE–yes, our Xs were similar in all 3 respects. When I asked him what he thought would happen after his affair, he admitted (a) he didn’t think he would be caught, (b) IF he was caught, I would only be mad for a week or two.

            Cheaters always overplay their hand.

    • @Keep on—-I got the same from the XBF (who had been living in my home/driving my vehicles/my doing ALL the heavy lifting with him contributing NOTHING). ‘They meant nothing to me’ and my reaction to that was exactly the same as what you wrote. After him saying that, I could no longer look him in the face. That was the last time he was ever fortunate enough to be in my presence.

      To make this an even more of an outer body/alternate universe experience, mid ‘affairs’ I had spoken with the two primary OW players in XBF’s Twilight Zone saga. They both told me that they didn’t even like him, the sex was lousy, he embarrassed them in public, his penchant for wearing fashionable clothes annoyed them, they had nothing in common and other negatives.

      YET, they did EVERYTHING they could to encourage him to continue spending time with them.

      Go figure. To hear them tell it, no one liked anyone.

      • Hesstthecurb

        The previous time he cheated he lied and told the other woman we were in the process of getting a divorce. At that time he was also calling two other women who wanted nothing to do with him. As dumb as it sounds I called the “chosen” one and told her the truth. When I confronted her about having sex with him she said, “You call that sex”. I should have divorced the asshole then but instead I did the pick me dance. Who the hell was that person? I’ve come a long way with the help of CL and CN. It’s been a life saver.

      • I got “I really like you both”. Gee, he was having such a hard time choosing between us…

        After I discovered their affair had been going on over a year, not 3 weeks, and she had moved from Texas to California, he tried the pity play: “Look at me” he said a 66 year old man writhing and with a contorted face “this is so stressful, I can’t sleep, I can’t eat, I’ve lost 10 pounds!” Then weakly “We can save it, right?”

        Nope. 38 years of memories, a family, a beautiful ranch…. I filed for divorce.

        Hope he “likes” his new life and living off his widowed girlfriend. Hope she figues him out sooner than I did… Hope the Karma bus runs them both over, Hope I can move on in a healthy way, HOPE…

        • Ding!
          Good job!
          You will move on Chump Change and it will be in a healthy way.
          We’ve got your back.

      • I told him that if ‘they didn’t mean anything to him’, that told ME that I didn’t mean anything to him either.

        He didn’t get it.

        • Mine didn’t get it either and probably never will.
          I’ve accepted that.

  • I would almost envy any attempt at excuses lol. All I’ve ever gotten was “this was all your fault, it’s because of YOUR unhappiness “.

    X-hole has never really communicated about anything at all, certainly not any AP’s, he’s too busy denying he has ever cheated.

    Cheaters do the unthinkable, to their partners and even their own children and act as though they’ve done no wrong, yet every mistake or disappointment you have inadvertently committed is a direct and horrible violation to their needs or happiness or whatever they can come up with.

    Assholes….the lot of them! Buh-bye is right

    • Mine never admitted it either, and it was also all my fault. All of the marital issues are my fault. He was just a sad poor sausage that wasn’t loved enough, and never got the right Christmas presents.

      • Same here. Sad sausage who was never appreciated while being treated like a king.

        • Sad sausage who had dinner every night, kids taken care of, clean house, clean sheets, wife that worked and contributed to house hold, nice family vacations, fantastic suburban home, two healthy children.. etc etc etc.. but it wasn’t ever enough.

          • I agree, it’s never enough for them because no-one can ever fill the void in them. They have a bit missing somewhere, that they can’t fill. Could it be they have no souls?

        • Same here. Apparently I said ‘no’ too many times when he came home from the bar at 11:30 on a weeknight smelling like beer and cigarettes (and not bothering to brush his teeth – or put on a different shirt before coming to bed.) The audacity of me to not WANT to have SEX with that! Apparently “Someone…who is a friend….who is a girl” didn’t mind. Of course she didn’t have to deal with the stench over the fuck phone he was sexting with her on.

          • LOL Lady Strange.. or pick up his socks or do his laundry. Or deal with any number of his other annoying habits.

            My STBX would do this too.. get stinking drunk then want to have sex. It was all about him and his timing.

          • Yes, clearly, you were being unreasonable. Good heavens! Asshat wouldn’t sleep in the same bed as me bc he was sure i was judging his snoring and smells. Uh, I generally have better things to do, like sleep, dumbass. I begged him for years to come to bed. When he did, he would smack me on the butt and then expect me to be all tingly and immediately read to go. Apparently, Florence must be easy to seduce ;O

            • What is it with the smells? Mine was obsessed that he smelled too.

              In my case I’m sure it was for the benefit of OW. He started demanding I hang his landry outside to dry in the middle of winter so he’d smell fresh. When I told him they wouldn’t dry, just freeze ((not to mention he didn’t care if I froze my ass off) he was like, “Duh, they will?” I think he wanted to accuse me of lying and being lazy again.

              Meanwhile I’m dealing with his sweaty stinky gym clothes and other things that are TMI, but let me just say that it was insulting what he would leave for me to clean up after him.

              • We’re all adults…. Used gym clothes are stinky. If it was extra gross I could hold my breath but the used washcloths? Ugh. And now he doesn’t put them in any sort of receptacle for dirty laundry so if I do venture into his House Elf Den, I spot them on the floor. Little Elf and I use different towels, favourite colour for the little guy and just clean and untouched by Asshat ones for me ;O

            • UGH!!! The smell of red wine…..bleeech! I cannot even look at a glass of it on tv and not be repulsed.

              • Donna, he kept asking me if he smelled and I would be quick to reassure him he didn’t. He did after the gym but that was understandable. Pisses me off now that he was asking because of her.

      • Cheaterspeak….same shit comes out of every one of their mouths. Always the victim. Incapable of ANY self-refelection. ZERO remorse for the soul crushing devastation they inflict. Prejecting, lying, cheating, blame-shifting sparkly disordered assholes!

        It baffles me that they actually believe their own lies. Mine has a huge reality deficit. He actually re-writes events that I was present for…and I KNOW what happened and he will absolutely deny or change facts and try to tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about. Really? Wtf?

        Can’t STAND to even look at X-hole now, didn’t think I’d EVER get there and I’m ever so grateful for this small gift. He is handsome and built like a greek God and I never had eyes for anyone else. I still have no interest in any one else but I no longer have ANY desire for him.

        His troll is just as crazy and disordered as he is. Their schmoopie talk and behavior made that apparent, it was disturbing. They deserve each other for sure. Nothing good will ever come of that. Good riddance and swift karma!!

        • Mine did the same thing Stevie.. revision of our entire history, refusing to admit things he actually SAID a few months before aka “I never said that, you are crazy”. He may have hurt my confidence and my pride, but he cannot touch my brain. My brain still works and I caught him in so many ridiculous lies, even I couldn’t keep up with them.

          He creates his own reality to fit whatever it is he wants most. He’s probably always done this.

          One of the things I struggle most with is how did I let this go on for 18 years.

    • Ah, I got the “because of YOUR unhappiness” too. I did not know that I was unhappy. Actually, a week before D-Day, I was telling myself that at last, my life had reached the state of bliss that I had been aiming at, during all these years…. Talk about a let down… 🙁
      Maybe he was referring to that time when I came back from hours of gardening, with a frown on my face, because he had been lying in front of the TV set all day, probably thinking about OW, completely detached from his obligations. Or that other time when I dared to say “why didn’t you write to them ?” when he complained again that his first name was spelled incorrectly on the electricity bill. I was genuinely tired of the fact that he let me do all the work without scruple. Yet, I was doing what needed to be done, and after that, I was happy again. His exact words after the betrayal were “I felt there was no way I could make you happy”. Please.

        • In the end, only one of us is better off–the chump, because we can go on to live an honest life feeling self-fulfilled, while they can never escape their debauched selves.

          • Tempest this is the truth. We are so much better off. Today I went to the gyno for my annual check up and I had memories of getting STD testing last year as X was tested for HIV one month after I threw him out. I filed shortly thereafter.

            What a difference a year made. To have an honest self-fulfilled life appeared to be unattainable twelve months ago during my paralysis months. It did arrive and I attribute it to chumps like you who were my guiding light.

            • Woo hoo, my STD test will be this year. D-day was 9/11/14, annual gyn exam 11 days later, and X swore up and down for quite a while that he had only had one eensy, weensy, affair–sex only 6 times and always used a condom–so I didn’t get tested.

              Almost a year later and information continues to pour in–serial cheater, at least a dozen women, probably used condoms but who knows? So I’m getting tested this year. Ugh.

              • I am waiting for the school year to start to go back for my first round of follow-up tests. As if I needed another reminder of his asshat-iness. I wonder if ‘sometimes’ is more or less than six times? When I blurted out that he just got pissy over things he had invented to justify going to have sex with Florence, he replied, “Sometimes.” Sometimes I dream of freak accidents, too ;O

              • This is how I came to terms with just how sick he was. X went to numerous Dr visits. He never told me I found out when I got my mail and opened the statement thinking it was mine. When I saw HIV testing with four follow up visits I freaked. The fucker never told me he was getting treated for a STD. I had to find out by accident. Luckily it was not HIV and was treatable. I did confront him when I left the Dr ladt year and he laughed. And I was trying to stop my fantacies of him suffering. This triggered me again. Maybe he will masturbate himself to death. They will find him holding on to his limp dick.
                Let’s hope for negative results.

      • I got the SAME line ChumpfromF…. “whatever it takes to make you happy…I don’t have it!!”

        Truthfully…he was the unhappy one….never EVER satisfied. He never tried because he truthfully just didn’t give a shit, no matter how much I wanted him to. Always, always everything was about him and it was simply f*cking EXHAUSTING!!!

  • My ex-wife, a 1st grade teacher played this game with me. 18 chump months later; I put it all together! Divorced 4/8/15 and she still plays these games with the our teenagers:/

    • That’s so sad, chris. With luck and over time, your kids will start to see through those games. Teens are big into honesty and other ethical issues. You don’t have to spackle for your XW to your teens. Just let them know that you love them and will always play fair with them.

    • Ugh! chris
      I’m just waiting for finalization so I can date my divorce too.
      sor worried about what games he will play with the kids.
      People tell me they will get it one day, see it and understand.
      I sure as hell hope so.

  • I suspect this is part of the lie the cheater told herself. “It was okay to cheat because I didn’t really like him. I didn’t really enjoy it.” Because it is only cheating if they like the person and enjoy it? Crazy cheaters.

  • My cheater said, “Don’t tell anyone I said this, but she is NOT the kind of person I could ever be in a relationship with!” First of all, I told everyone what he said because I no longer owed him any loyalty. Second of all, when I kicked his ass out of our house the very night of D-Day, he instantly pursued a “relationship” with her (because he needed a new Mommy to support him financially). Surprise, surprise two years later word on the street is they broke up because she dumped him. Too bad, so sad. I guess his statement was true… but because SHE didn’t want to be in a relationship with HIM not because she wasn’t his type or wasn’t good enough. Sheesh these narcs are amazing.

    • TheMuse

      My therapist said these relationshios don’t last. How can they given what we put up with? And also for what they cannot bring to the table. When I reflect on how little I settled for over the years it’s utterly amazing I tollersted his abuse. Not only didn’t he like any if his whores, he never liked me or our children.

      It’s only a matter of time when the X suddenly has an awakening and starts singing the tune, “all I want is what I had”. It’s what they do.

      Living with a narcissist is a match made in hell. It’s nice she dumped him (smile).

    • “Don’t tell anyone I said this, but . . . ”

      Can the guy communicate in any possible way without triangulating? Ugh! So glad you are rid of him!

  • Mine never claimed he didn’t like her…. but instead used the famed “we are just friends” bit. Claiming he was not attracted to her at all, she was not attracted to him, they were not in a relationship and “never would be”. Also claimed that our problems, had “nothing to do with her at all” despite admitting to our MC that they were “going through similar emotional things” and she “helped him with his issues”. Yeah, helped him dump his family.

    Mindfuckery is what it is.

    Yeah, I don’t call/text ANYONE daily.. except STBX… and I don’t go over to some “male friend’s” apartment all day then claim I was with someone else. Then claim all we did was “watch TV”.

    I don’t come up with covert ways to contact a non consequential “friend” (texting apps that use wifi, google voice numbers, etc) and I sure as hell wouldn’t risk my marriage, my family, and our shared history for some random person I didn’t care that much about.

    All bullshit. Liars lie and cheaters cheat. You can’t trust them.

  • Yes, so right on!!! I heard it was a love-hate with the mow. So, what’s that to mean….loved the sex but hated the person? Yes, also completely got the pity poor sausage, broken , don’t know what to do, I don’t want to be divorced and I only cheated for our 27 yrs of marriage to medicate response when I filed. Two years out from divorce and meh is on the horizon.

  • My cheater said there wasn’t enough whiskey in the world to make him want to touch her when I first confronted him, then I found out the affair went on for 4 years behind my back, then he said he “loved me the entire time” and “I was his soul mate and life partner” and “It’s not what you thing even though it looks bad”. Gag

    • Mine used to say his ho-worker was “a man” and that her shoulders were as broad as his (and he’s a big dude). The ho-neighbor was “screwed up.” I think that, at least in my case, he characterized these sluts as utterly undesirable in order to throw me off the scent. In the meantime, he was sad-sausaging to them about what a witch I was. Le sigh.

      • Me too! movie_on
        And he actually thought I would buy it if he said mean things about her.
        If she is all these bad thing why would you pay to fly her all over the nation just to fuck her.
        That’s a lot of misplaced hate.

    • Kate50

      We are strong after all. The strength it takes not beat the narcissist out of them takes Mightiness. It’s in there!!

      • You got that right donna, I remember hoping his plane went down after finding everything out and that’s not who I am at all to wish something like that on any person ever. I think I’m still bitter over my lost years and that I’m scared I might be alone for the rest of my life because I’m 51 today, met the asshole when I was only 25. I LOVED being married and LOVED MY FAMILY! :(((((

        • Kate51
          Happy birthday!!

          I too loved my family. I knew deep within me we never had a future. I was aware of his infidelity. We started dating at 16 and were together a total if 41 years.

          Today I thought about how I defined myself through a narcissists lens. Since I know he is a pathological liar i refuse to let him rob me of my future.
          At first I had so many fears about being alone and going through the grieving process. Each time I conquered a fear I became stronger. There’s nothing he ever did that was spectacular. It gets easier. Believing in yourself is much more rewarding than all the efforts we put into the chesting assholes. Take care of you.

  • Chumps can cut through this one like butter and guide tours around its circular route… it’s almost worse. “So you risked [insert litany of goodness here]… all that, to fuck around with someone YOU DON’T EVEN LIKE?! What’s the MATTER with you?!”

    Cheater: I dunno. I must be stupid.

    Chump: Yeah, NO SHIT!

    ^Mean wife, I guess. Cheater will sulk and tell people that his wife calls him stupid.^

    • Insistonhonesty, this cheater’s attribution (calling himself stupid but telling people that his wife called him stupid) sounds hauntingly familiar.

      • OMG. Yes. I’ve been amazingly calm and collected dealing with the fallout from Dday. Poor sad sausage thinks I should try to be nicer. He lied, cheated, snuck around, blame shifted and engaged in activities that would make Ashley Madison blush. Now he walks around with a poor-me attitude, telling everybody he was wrong and that he still cares for me (damage control… he beats them to the punch), but if I’m ever bluntly truthful, he’s the first one to tell people exactly what I said (and taken out of context). He reminds me of a kindergarten tattletale.

        • Sigh. I, too, have barely raised my voice about any of this. And I am usually sort of a yelling sort of person! Which he always like to point out. Only I haven’t yelled about the affair or Florence. A few times he giddily says this is one of the many things he loves about me. Note he didn’t say a reason he loves me, just that he loves this trait. That I don’t get all dramatic (I suspect Florence is continuing to throw tantrums) and hate acting up. He is like a tattling kindergartener who also forgets what lies he tells on which days.

  • Wow, this definitely happened to me. He had trouble cuming and there were “performance problems.” I guess this was all to either make me feel sorry for him, get me to quit asking questions just assuming it was lousy, or both. I immediately said “why the hell would you stay in something that was not any good, that provided no ego boost or sexual glee?” He said, he was hoping it would get better. The sad part is I believed him even though I knew it had to be better than described, it was part of a ploy to make it OK that they still worked together. And I agree with CL that it was a pick me dance ploy.
    Thought the same thing as lining up ducks, thinking you would risk our relationship, (decades long) STD’s, your job, & her job for lousy sex you couldn’t even finish? I have come to my own conclusions about what it was since then, but one of the first things he said was that is wasn’t very good in the bedroom. He has still not come exactly clean about how long it was, but about 4-5 months if what he said was true. Supposedly only Friday nights when they both could because she had two boys she didn’t want to know she was a whore. If the sex was truly humiliating, as in what performance problems would be for a man, he never would have never returned. It is part of the whole poor sausage thing. All part of the story that didn’t add up and drove me crazy.
    I have said before the worst crime against myself that I ever committed was trying to believe him instead of my gut. I am looking for to what other Chumps have to say about this behavior in their lives.
    I will say that I do believe that some affairs are more emotional attachment, the “they understand me” thing, new company, someone to commiserate with, and the excitement of fucking you over. But, it always involves sexual attraction & sex.

    • Yes, I, too was told “I don’t know where you are getting this idea that the sex with her is great or something! – i’ts JUST SEX OK????” (I hadn’t actually asked about their sex or thought that).

      And I said, oh, so you destroyed our entire relationship of 16 years and our family for someone you “don’t trust,” “could never be in a relationship with,” and with whom the sex isn’t even good???” and of course that made him even madder and yell even more angrily how fucked up and crazy I was.

      • Oh yeah, he also further minimized his affair with the OWhore by saying, “I don’t know what you are so upset about Muse, all I did was take someone up on an offer they made!” Ha ha ha, special offer Kmart shoppers, we’re running a special today on cheap whores in aisle 4.

        • Lol, TheMuse! Perhaps you should offer him a “bargain” on a bungee jump over a tall bridge, with a frayed cord. If he can’t resist offers….

          • LOL! Do they have Group discounts? And can I use a knife if the cord isn’t frayed enough? LMAO!

      • TheMuse, oh… I got that too STBXH said after D-day confession to his affair with his office manager. “I never really trusted her.” Yeah…right:

        1) So STBXH admitted hiring her because she was attractive and she made his front office ‘look good.’
        2) She was a married woman with kids from her first failed marriage-they were being raised by her then current second husband.
        3) STBXH comes onto her and they start an affair.
        4) STBXH then increases her office manager salary to match mine. (I am an attorney so he was grossly overpaying her! ) Before D-day confession he used to comment to me that AP was “like a wife to him and did SO much for his business!” So, he rationalized his affair that SHE was a wife because she was helping him in the business meanwhile I found out that he was ALWAYS tearing me down to her and saying the meanest things. He wasn’t impressed at my efforts and energy to raising our baby son at that time at all, oh no.. not at all.
        5) She starts coming in late to work, dressing all the time in form fitting clothes, not being available for him at his beck and call.
        6) She balks at his request to dress more professionally and show up to work on time. (What? she thought… I have to do my job which means more than coming into work when I want, going out for cigars and drinks with him after work and fucking? Oh… you mean I am no longer your ‘Office Manager’?
        7) STBXH proceeds to fire her and his wonderful Married AP office Manager then threatens him with a $10,000 settllment claim or she’ll file a lawsuit for sexual harassment AND files a complaint with the Human Rights Commission.

        Wow… and to think that he “never really trusted her.”

    • Supposedly only Friday nights when they both could because she had two boys she didn’t want to know she was a whore.

      Just unbelievable how fucked up these people are. Agree on the emotional attachment.. and I think it’s because these people are at their core, never happy so it’s the shiny ball syndrome.

      “The excitement of fucking you over”.. never thought of that before but I suppose that’s true. That’s why they must demonize us so much.. so that we become worthy of the treatment.. and are “getting what we deserve”.

      • I agree. Although we can’t comprehend it, they do get off on fucking us over, thinking that makes them smarter/better than us. Big thrill for them. Sometimes you have to laugh & say – so where did that get you, Smarty Pants?

        • Meg—–it got *my* Smarty Pants moved out of my seven figure home into the homeless shelter…..

          • Hesatthecurb, LMFAO! So in his case, it was more a Karma Shopping Cart that ran him over ;O

            • Elf–the ‘hits’ just keep on a comin’ his way, too. Currently he’s on two yrs’ probation for a DWI of blood alcohol of .15 or higher—whooopsee! His vehicle has been fitted with a device that will not let it start if there is alcohol on his breath (he has been an severe alcoholic for more than half his life). He’s had violations of use of the device>>>back to court to potentially have his probation revoked…and other violations which have threatened his probation. Can’t keep his ass out of trouble, has no regard for the law nor ability to foresee consequences.

              Ha ha… can Rico Sauve find a woman who wants to ride around in a car where he has to blow the tube before it will start?????

              Chick magnet? NOT!!!!

              • I realize alcoholism is no laughing matter, yet I am laughing like a crazy woman ;O

                You are so lucky to be rid of him. I live in a town of drinkers and those in recovery. The concept of the breathalyzer device seems foreign to me but I bet plenty of people here wouldn’t bat an eye. Asshat’s not an alcoholic but has no impulse/self control when it comes to many other things. His dad and stepmom were more or less functioning alcoholics and they once told us a story about a fellow physician getting a DUI after leaving a party. They were convinced someone set the guy up bc how else would the police have known to pull him over?!? Oh, I don’t know, the weaving all over erratically, slow reflexes, running over trash cans?

    • My cheater said that he couldn’t ‘finish’ when he had sex (which supposedly was paid for by one of his friends, because he would never buy sex) with a prostitute before he met me because he felt guilty about using a person this way. He promised to never buy sex again when he proposed to me. Flash forward a decade, I find out that he has bought himself sex numerous times (and ‘finished’ with these prostitutes) while married to me. Moral of the story: People rarely change.

      • You’re right about never changing RockStarW, mine told me he was a changed man, realized how wrong he was about cheating with ho-worker and one prostitute that I know of, yet during wreckonciliation I caught him in three bold face lies to me, one being that if ho-worker ever made contact with him he’d tell me, but he did’nt and the other two lies were about his drug use, told me he stopped and did’nt have any, caught him twice and he denied it when I saw him doing it and smelled it on him. I left for good this time and divorce is in the works, 3 strikes your out, should have been only one btw, but chumpy me. And FYI, my Mother had told me once, if a person has to say they’ve changed, then they haven’t at all, REAL change is when others say it about you because they see it in you and most people don’t even realize that they even have changed when that happens, they are surprised.

  • During our short attempt at reconciliation my cheating ex-wife gave me some version of the “I don’t even like him” routine a couple of times. With regard to one AP, she described how fucking him was creepy and weird and ritualized and that she figured out he was just an asshole who wanted her for sex and nothing else. I really felt it was a play for sympathy, as if I was supposed to comfort her for all she’d been through. Thank God I was so traumatized I wasn’t capable of giving comfort to anyone at the time. With the other she told me he was a boor and not very bright because he didn’t read books and what she’d originally taken for even-temperedness turned out to be a disturbing lack of emotional response about everything. At one point she stated emphatically, “I have no idea how I ever could have seen myself having a future with someone like that!”

    You see the punchline coming, don’t you? When reconciliation fell apart (yeah, she was still cheating) and I divorced her, she turned to the second of these two oafs within hours, and begged and pleaded until he left his wife and children, moved cross country to be with her, and ultimately (after more begging and pleading from her) married her. They’ve been together about 4 years now. I have reason to think she’s already cheating on him. I love the idea of those two losers/liars/cheaters being married to each other. Karma is sometimes more creative and more brutal than we could imagine.

    • Nomar, this, “Karma is sometimes more creative and brutal than we could imagine.”

    • “Karma is sometimes more creative and more brutal than we could imagine.”

      Truer words were never spoken, Nomar. I have seen it with my own eyes. Way worse than I could have imagined.

      • I really don’t mean to sound ugly here. But, X was diagnosed with prostate cancer the day the divorce was final. That’s all I’ll say about that.

          • SheChump, I know exactly what you mean. My Ex was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer less than a month after moving in with his Schmoopie! Karma baby, KARMA!

  • Idiot screamed at me ‘ You will never get over this! I try and tell you how I feel and you make what Tweeny and I had a bad thing. Something that is important to me! You make it bad! ‘
    Of all the shit that he has ever said…. This one statement stunned me into silence.
    An 18 year old girl.
    I am 3 years post discovery and a year divorced and only now can I revisit that statement and realize how fucked up he really is. The words stung at the time…. Changed to revulsion…. Now I see how far gone this guy is. His prey … And 18 year old girl.
    Tweeny is now 21 and believes she is his world. Meanwhile he is taking our child to meet his other girlfriend. I didnt think the pattern would repeat itself so soon… But there it is.
    They are so empty that they gorge to try and fill the space… Then they purge. A bulimic of sorts. Its not about the cake … They dont even taste it. Its just a filler. But it aint food… Its peoples lives that they woof down and spit out in their attempt to feel whole.

    • The Clip, THIS! These mongrels just can’t get enough! It’s just a matter of time before their pattern is repeated! Too bad these cheaters buy into believing they are special! Sucks to be them!

    • TheClip

      When they show themselves we get insight into the thought processes of the sociopath. It’s like, “Why don’t you understand”. It’s beyond cake. Yes.

  • I would get this BS from my Ex when he would come running home again and again! The whole litany of all her “bad” behavior and habits…..then 6 to 9 days later he would run out the door back to this supposedly clingy, needy, awful person and situation! How he was “unable to perform” with her out of his guilt! And the sex was really not good! Yeah… Right! I just could not understand it! I just think he would run home when she would give him an ultimatum and he was not quite ready to make the leap! What kind of fool does that make me? Meanwhile, everyone would buy into his sad sausage routine and I would be humiliated over and over again! I could just kick myself!! I just hope at this point that some of the nasty things he said about her ARE true and he has to live up under her now! But as long as her money holds out then he’ll stay with her, but once he’s blown through her bank account I fear he’ll be back! I don’t really miss him anymore and I just don’t feel sorry for him! She wanted him so badly, she can have him and he thought she was worth giving up everything he had so “Good Luck” you cheaters! They are each other’s problem now!

  • Also, I think “I don’t even like him” is to cheating what “I didn’t inhale” is to illegal drug use: Beside the point and an insult to my intelligence.

    • Yes, ttrue! Plus the “I didn’t even like them” is also a mindfuck on the self-esteem-level.

      The AP was butt-ugly/not interesting? The chump feels like crap because they must have been horrible for the cheater to think that nasty-AP was a preferable option.

      The AP was hot/rich/Einstein? The chump feels horrible because they feel like they will never measure up and must be deficient somehow. It’s a no-win….even saying the AP was bad still leaves the chump feeling like pond scum no matter what.

      • Yep.

        Mine was NEVER getting married again because being married to me was so horrible. I have to admit that one still bothers me.

        • Oh, and once the sad sausage had the nerve to sit there and say “Who’d want me” when I accused him of cheating and was begging him to stay and work things out instead of just walking. I’m telling him I want him so much and had to hear that. Like I was nothing.

  • My version of this was “I know he doesn’t love me, I know you love me.” And, “I know he’s telling me what I want to hear.” My exes AP was her ex-boyfriend, who was trying hard to get her to come back to him, despite the fact that she was married to me. After she cheated on me, he was full on with his game to get her back. In their emails, he mentioned introducing her to his daughter because she (my ex) was “special”. I guess by that he meant that she was not just a lay. The doofus forgot that my ex and him lived together and introducing the daughter wasn’t really an option. The emails between the two of them had the depth of middle school love and worthy of an Ashley Madison script. Biderman would have been proud.

    After I woke up, I decided he can have her. The two of them together is sociopathic perfection. Let them rape each other.

    • “depth of middle school love”

      ROTFLMAO.. no KIDDING. My STBX said “I need excitement and passion”… I guess the MOWhore gave him that, for a while anyway, until she realized what she was taking on. Then once the D started it wasn’t so fun.. once she realized I would get a big chunk of his paycheck and he’d have kids to attend from time to time.. that’s no FUN!!!

      It’s so sad really, these disordered jerks throw away the very people who would have stood by them. I was prepared to honor my vows if he had just been willing to be honest. But alas, it was too much.. too much effort.

      While he never admitted to screwing the whore, he did once tell me that conversations were “easy” with her and about stupid things like TV shows and jokes, while talking to me was more difficult.. you know, pesky adult stuff like bills, kids, retirement plans… real BUMMER conversations. I am sure on some level, that was true.. but so very middle school!

      They are just grown up children. You are lucky to be rid of her Michael.. there are women out there who do have good character and would value someone like you!!!

      • Yep! ChumpAtl, I got the..”it’s hard being with you!” WTF? Hard because I have morals and standards I suppose! What a dumb fuck he is!!!! So go be with Miss Easy Piece. Who the fuck cares?

        • Miss Easy Piece never stays that way.. that is the sad irony of it, isn’t it?

          • NewChumpAtl, I think she’ll always be Miss Easy Piece, just not with my Ex! GF is still very busy on every social media site you can name! My Ex met Miss wonderful on Facebook! Her favorite hookup medium! She had two other guys she was chatting up until mine took the stinky bait she was dangling! One of the guys was a single friend of ours and even he had to remind her she was married and he had enough sense not to slide between the sheets with the whore! But not my Ex! He dove in head first!

        • Are we talking about the same person here despite the male/female difference? Creepy how they all say the same crap despite of gender. In an effort to scrape sympathy from me, my ex said ,”I tried so hard! (to be decent). Well, it’s not easy being sleazy. No wait, it is! 🙂

          • It is really really creepy. Mine had the gall to tell me that “I didn’t try that hard” despite my 8 months of furious pick me dancing and pretzeling. And the 15lb weight loss (I was thin before), and the panic attacks, nightmares, etc. He sat there and watched me suffer and truly didn’t give a crap. Then told me my pretty pick me dancing and other overtures of love (letters, songs, emails, texts, presents, etc) just “weren’t enough for him”.

            The whore can have him, seriously (even though I doubt she is still in the picture or even wants him now). Good Luck with all that!

  • Mine said, “She’s NOT even good at racquetball…” At the time I was clueless about the affair and wondered why he was talking about some random chick he played doubles with…. Like, who cares? Looking back ex liked his secret and the thought that he was getting one over on me, his partner of 28 years. POS cheaters can’t deal with life challenges, mine always had to be in the spotlight, and my marriage was crap because he was just never present. Chameleons. Dday was him telling me he wanted a divorce. I knew at that moment there had to be someone else. He’d been disengaged and acting crappy for a while then. Funny thing, he married his whore. The way I look at that is it frees me up to spend my life with good honest people. Ones who are capable of loving me.

  • Nomar, I agree! And I consider myself to be relatively smart and have pretty good common sense, but what makes me angrier than anything is the fact that he under estimated my intelligence and played on my emotions! Obviously my IQ level when it came to my feelings for him were somewhere in the imbecile level! I mean….. What the Hell was I thinking??? It’s just all very humiliating for me to look back on and I am now embarrassed that I did my pick me dance till I needed a new pair of dance shoes!! Where was my brain?? On hiatus? Geesh!

    • Roberta, I agree completely with you because I feel the same way. I trusted completely and I was fooled and taken advantage by the one I trusted so much. It’s hard to get past that, forgive myself and be open to trust again. I’m struggling from that perspective.

    • Roberta

      I left the embarrassment on him. When I finally saw him with the OW right after I filed I said, “This is what you left me for”. As I walked away I said, “no wonder you can’t introduce her to our children, you must be embarrassed”. He called her a dream girl. My children did finally meet her in their dumpy apartment and compared her to an after picture of a meth addict. Roberta, leave the embarrassment to them. You get to hold your head high.

      • LOL. My girls call my Ex wife beau Dumpster Man. Crazy stuff, I worked so hard to pay bills and make sure she had the time to deal with her mothers death. Asked her all the time how she was etc, etc,,, I guess Dumpster Man was taken care of her.

        So much for trying to be a good husband and father:( Slap in the face.

        Karma bus where are you…

    • Roberta, I am with you! It is hard to come to grips with how many years you spent with someone who probably never loved you the way you wanted to be loved, who could toss it aside without a care of the damage, etc.
      It reminds of an alcoholic. One of the hardest parts of quitting alcohol I understand is facing all the wasted years, the carnage and facing that now the better portion of your life is past, and you will have all this to deal with-SOBER!
      I think another Chump quality is that we are not quitters. It is hard to quit fighting and know when to go home. It for me was the end of a dream I had to NOT be cheated on, to have a life where I could trust and be trusted, be in a long term relationship that had shared history, to not have to start over in what should be a close into my retirement years. It is hard to give up on those dreams. Also, very hard when you are slapped in the face of it all and figure out just how little you mattered. Multiple things to recover from.

      • Thanks everyone for weighing in. I appreciate the comments. I know deep inside that all this garbage he pulled on me rests solely in his hands! And most of the time the common sense side of me doesn’t waste too much time pondering the ramblings of an obviously mentally ill, over the hill cheater! He is and always will be just a common run of the mill POS and he can’t run from himself or what he has done! That is a “stink tattoo” that will follow him forever till the end of his life! I don’t need to carry that shit sack any longer, Schmoopie can carry it! She’s no better than he is!

    • Hugs to you Roberta! These bottom-feeding POS work hard at their con. It’s what they live for. One could be a Mensa candidate and they would still try to play you or anyone.

  • I never got any explanation post D-Day. Ex just turned and abandoned us all (me and kids) and never bothered to try to explain to any of us.

    But 13 years pre-D-Day when I suspected ex was possibly having an affair with two co-workers, ex re-assured me that suspected AP#1 was “frumpy” and that suspected AP#2 was “manly,” and that he had no interest in either one whatsoever.

    I learned on D-Day that he had been having an affair with both for at least 15 years (as well as group sex). He has now married “frumpy” AP #1, and “manly” AP#2 is still AP#1’s best friend. Ewww……..

        • Yes I am now re-married to a wonderful, non-sparkly man who has real emotions and a real connection with me (I never knew what I was missing all those years in my first marriage until now). Things really can be so much better on the other side!

  • My Xhusband offered no excuse.
    He had an affair with a man that lasted approx 4 weeks and during the affair and d’day which was a period of roughly 8 years, he had engaged in oral sex with multiple partners often strangers solicited in public toilets. When I initially asked why? he stated he was curious and that it had nothing to do with me. It had nothing to do with love or passion. It was cold, calculated at one point one of his supporters stated to my face that I needed to forgive him even if it was a cold hearted decision as my Xhusbands actions were only physical not intimate. (my Xhusbands supporters definitely fall in the stage ten of the gaslighting article CL shared) My Xhusbands sexual partners meant nothing to him nor did I, he had no intention of having a meaningful relationship with any of them, and when he realised that I would no longer play the role of devoted Christian wife his relationship with me took a whole new twist. I became enemy number one.

    Cheaters cheat for many and varied reasons. But imo those who use multiple partners for self satisfaction and deny the reality of their actions are a particularly sick bread of human being.

  • I got:
    in general to his cheating – ‘everything about our relationship is great except sex so I thought I could satisfy my need for that elsewhere’ and ‘I told them I had no intention of leaving you and it was just about sex with them’.
    in regards to the one I caught him with – ‘it was fizzling out with her anyway’.
    in regards to the other local, ongoing one once he finally admitted he’d been with her too – ‘she reminded me so much of you that I couldn’t resist’.
    in regards to the many, many one night stands – ‘I can’t help that women want me’.
    in regards to the prostitutes – ‘I can’t stop’.

    Can’t stop? Well I can and did. Buh-bye.

    • “She reminded me so much of you that I couldn’t resist”.
      They are not afraid of ridicule.

    • Oh man, my cheater said something along the same lines. “It’s all because of sex…” she said. No no. How about poor character and a lack of conscience? I think that had more to do with it. After all, sex wasn’t so good for me either but I didn’t hook up with my ex. Also, that doesn’t explain the drug use. I gave her a few seconds to come up with an excuse for that then I made a buzzer noise. She gave me that blank look that only a sociopath can give.

  • Kelly, now that’s some kind of fucked up dynamic! I have a hard time wrapping my head around just the one downgrade MOW! I can’t even imagine what it would be like to deal with that ball of knotted twine! Yuck! Maybe they just pass him back and forth??? EWWWW!

    • They are all so disgustingly gross Roberta, not even our children want to see him (not that he really seems to care)!

      • Kelly, same here. My adult children have nothing to do with him. Actually his own siblings have cut him off, but I don’t think it bothers him much as he makes no overtures to connect to anyone at all! It’s as if 60 years of his life never existed!

  • “She’s a lesbian.” That’s what I got told when he tried to back peddle from telling me he would have paid her way to AK. Why oh why didn’t I just leave him in one of those remote Canadian outhouse pull offs for the bears to eat? Turns out it was a one sided EA on his part only. They had 1 date that lasted 30 minutes and she left stating,”Don’t call me, I’ll call you.”

  • Chumps, if you’re wondering whether your cheater has a personality disorder, you need look no further for evidence than a statement like this.

    Without even realizing it, your cheater is admitting that he or she is capable of cultivating a romance, expressing love, giving affection and/or having sex with a person they don’t even care for as a person.

    If that’s the kind of person your partner is, then how can you possibly believe that his or her feelings for YOU could possibly be sincere?

    Of course you WANT desperately to believe that your relationship is the real deal and the affair was merely a trashy diversion. But if your partner’s love for you was genuine, he or she would’ve never cheated on you in the first place.

    • Lulu, I think you have nailed this one. They cultivated, spent a good amount of time doing it too, for what? a person that they don’t like. Pure circular BullSh*t. That’s just crazy making for the faithful chump. A person I know is going through the whole I don’t even like her crap and she’s believing it because she needs to.

  • Lulu

    You are so right. X gave NO explanation yet openly admitted it was ALWAYS the thrill of the chase. He is a sociopath. Very disturbed people like this hide in relationships a X did. RUN is all I can say to anyone who is married to a cheater. Cheating is ALL the evidence we need. Make a plan and leave. Don’t ever look back.

  • Not from my cheating ex, but my cheating father:
    Paraphrasing– she’s fat, not like your mother.

    Background: my father up and disappeared when I was in my early teens. Cops thought my mom had killed him or they were plotting to collect life insurance. Two years later he reappears, my mother (foolishly) takes him back. Personally, I think he only returned to get divorced because OW wanted to get married. The OWife comment was in a letter which I did not keep, where my father was attempting to explain himself.

    I think it was the minimizing attempt, AP/OWife is fatter/not as pretty as your mother. For years I was tempted to show it to OWife, but figured, what’s the point? She knew he was married when they met. They deserve one another.

  • As stomach-turning and ridiculous as it was to hear my ex had found her “soul mate”, I appreciate that she was a) decisive and b) made no bones about the fact that she thought she had found someone better. At the time it was pure heartbreak and trauma for me, but in retrospect it was good she gave me no hope, and it accelerated the process of kicking her out and divorcing.

    This was three years ago and her soul mate is still not divorced, but guess what, that ain’t my problem any more.

    • Chumpion; looking back, I wish that is what happened to me. So much wasted time trying to weed through the BS, and more and more emotional damage along the way. I agree, thank goodness she left, a quicker path to meh.
      PS great topic!

      • I should have emphasized how this level of mindfuckery “I don’t even like him” is simply awful, and the insult to injury that level of bullshit brings infidelity to is simply the worst.

        I should also say I do not send thank you notes to me ex saying “when you gaslighted me and then stabbed me in the back, thank you for not twisting the blade around for another 45 minutes! You are the best!”

        • I was thinking on this because when x came by the house a couple of days after d day and him just up and leaving, like I gave him permission, he says the words that make my poor, mutilated heart a flutter, “when I saw you I knew that I couldn’t do it”. Hallmark moment for me there. He was referring to “asking me back” because you know I was all horrible and stuff. It was the icing on a giant shit cupcake that I had been getting for years, there were so many tiny, mindless (?) stabs in the back for so many years, that sometimes I look back and wonder WTF happened to me (death by a thousand cuts anyone?). They all say stupid stuff like this, we just don’t pay enough attention at the time to really process it (too busy and tired raising that family that you had), they couldn’t have meant it that way anyway, this person loves you, they would never do that to you. They can and they will.
          I’ll never forget that, when I saw you statement. My x went through every single, damn excuse that has been on here about why he found his soulmate schmoopie, I wasn’t sexual enough, I wasn’t girlie enough, I wasn’t there for him. he was too young to get married, I forced him to get married, I was too controlling, I wasn’t _______ fill in the blank. I think when the MFer read the Cheater Handbook he didn’t read closely enough, just pick one or two things and let the chump fill in the rest and swing in agony.

  • Yeah, I got the “don’t mean anything to me” about the simultaneous fuck-fest he was having with three ho-workers. After I saw photos of them, I was three times as disgusted. Then, during the trickle down truth, he elaborated: “They want oral sex and I just do it so I can get my needs met.” Then there was this plaintively clue, “There is no me without you.” Sick, sick, sick. I was the blissfully ignorant tool of a sneak thief. It was deceiving me that made it Lifetime member of the “he man woman haters club”, we were all pawns in his subconscious desire to get even with the sister who stole his innocence. I had a choice, unholy power play victim, or chump representative for the beautiful state of Meh. I voted “see ya”, but I’m still putting my psyche back together four years later. Ten years of believing that he was wonderful, and I didn’t mean one speck more to him than those lying, cheating, fuggly trolls. That’s the chump reality check. How much better to grasp that truth sooner than later.

  • Also there were so many levels of his deviance I accepted because I believed he was a good guy for years. Actions, not words are what we should focus on.

  • One of the amazing abilities of the disordered is that they can analyze another human and immediately discern how useful that person will be to them. Liking or Loving have nothing to do with the decision to use another.

    As far as being discriminating — when you are porn-addled, evidently you find a sexual use for almost everything, and the physical appeal of the prey has nothing to do with the amount of perverted pleasure that can be provided. If the “Whore” is willing to do or try anything, be assured, the whore will be asked to do so.

    If you fall into the “Madonna” category you provide things like security, normalcy, money, job connections, and maybe convenience for a sexual outlet. But it really doesn’t matter if you are beautiful or not, or sexy or not. You will never have a total package that will change the disordered one’s perception of you and “complete” all the needs. They are bottomless pits of need. Constantly having new unmet needs.

    The pick me dance provides extra pleasure, for the power need. Just what will you do for me? What have you done lately? — I need MORE!!!
    There will never be enough dancing, and if your dance can be used to incite even lower standards for the Other — well, isn’t that Special????

    Yes, it is creepy. They are CREEPS!!!!

    • Portia

      As always your words express the truth. I would add their victims to the list. There were many he tried to fool as well as others who were innocent victims.

      • Portia, exactly!! I met my X when I was 18. We were in college and married the year following graduation. During our divorce I asked him why he married me. He said it was because he knew I’d be a good wife and good mother – no mention of love whatsoever. The other women were always trashy… I’m sure they had their own demons that they were dealing with. He was just using all of us to fulfill his needs. He remarried shortly after our divorce “because he couldn’t be alone.” She, too, is a decent woman (good job, good mother) whom he has fooled. Her young adult children adore him as their own father has never been involved in their lives. He has filled her head with lies about me and worked his charms on her. I feel sorry for her and would have warned her had she asked me about him. However, she has been blinded, like I was. She is is biggest supporter and fan right now. I hope she figures it out sooner than I did, and I hope she takes him to the cleaners when she does.

  • My disordered wing nut told me initially,before D day,that they were’ just friends’,that she looked like’ the bride of Wildenstein’….she will be 70 in November and has had(obvious) plastic surgery.All this was designed to put me off the scent and it did for a while.
    If he had absconded with someone more beautiful,more educated,much younger I think it would have been easier for me.She’s 15 years older than me,this will be her third marriage,all of them to very wealthy men…gold digger anyone?
    My friends think I should be delighted because she’s such an obvious downgrade,but for me,it made it harder to swallow.I wonder if anyone out there gets that.

    • Deedee, I do (get that). Over a year ago, my STBX announced his affair with his drunk-driving, not very physically attractive co-worker, who he tried to start a family with before he filed for divorce from me. (My first thought when I met the affair partner of my now STBX was, ‘You left me for that?’) My greatest fear after realizing that I might be financially wiped out (as I am being) was endangerment of my kids by them being driven somewhere by their father’s affair partner while she was drunk.

    • I do. My STBX’s whore is also a huge downgrade. My age… not really that great looking.. overly made up, bad skin, smoker, not very intelligent and overall a piece of trash. But apparently his “friendship” with this whore was worth throwing our family away. Not only our marriage, but the life we built over two decades, the loyal friendship I have given him since we were kids, the love, the security of our two beautiful sons. Not only is she none of the things I am, but she lacks basic integrity. But yet she was worth all this pain.. why?

      This bothered me for a long time Deedee, until a friend of mine put it to me just right. She said “The whore is as good as your STBX will ever do. You were ALWAYS out of his league and he knew it.. which is part of the reason for the downgrade.. the downgrade WORSHIPS him, thinks he’s all that… but you’ve lived with him 20 years and you KNOW his weaknesses, he also knows he can’t lie to you, you are too smart to buy his BS..but the dimwitted whore WILL buy it. She laps it up because she’s too stupid to get it. She encourages his bad habits rather than challenges him.. she doesn’t expect anything from him… not yet anyway” That makes perfect sense when you think about it. The mask slipped with me.. but with the whore, the mask is firmly in place. He’s got her snookered, until he doesn’t anymore.. which is inevitable, but could take some time depending on how stupid she is.

      Take heart Deedee… you were way out of his league and you will for SURE do better without him. Big HUGS.. I know how you feel, it sucks, but we will come out of this.

      • The schmoopie that I was left for was about a decade younger than me, she possesses all the
        bad qualities that x said that I had. She left his stupid ass after only 5 months of bliss. He now has a new scmoopie (she came onto the scene when we were separated and knew he had not divorced). I think she may be the Karma bus in disguise. She lives in the home that we shared, she never goes anywhere significant with him (like to important events, she let this man go to his daughters wedding in sneakers), she “let’s him go to band practice alone” (he made me go to band practice, must take your cheerleader with you after all). She is at home, waiting for him. I say bs to all this, she is waiting him out, she is either extremely manipulative or extremely tame. What damn OW have you seen that is this tame? not many, OW are stupid as it is, but not that stupid, they bide their time and they play the game and that means Karma bus for me. Yay

    • Deedee, Florence is just a couple of years older than me though I think she looks a good decade or more older. Apparently she is the epitome of class and full of awesomeness. After several months of being afraid to go out in public, I realized she must not do anything social. Noone in Asshat’s office EVER spoke about her. Never a funny anecdote or story that included her. She worked in their clinic about six months and I am friendly with most of the people there. I used to hang out with some of them. I used to ski and do things with Asshat’s main nurse, who I am sure avoids me a little bc she thinks I might be causing him some pain. She is level headed so I suspect she would rather stay out of it and i agree she should not be put in the middle. Despite her being one of my favourite people to hang out with in town, I chose not to say anything to her. She has to work with him every day. Anyhooo, Florence is a wrinkly old Botoxed prune. She is not unfortunate looking, in fact she is sort of pretty. But she dresses like an old lady and has old lady hair. My friends told me this weekend I look 23. Someone asked if it would have bothered me more if he had cheated with some lithe 20 year old (we are in our 40s). I think it is worse in a way that the OW isn’t a cute young thang. Because that appears to be a more obvious reason to outsiders, who don’t really matter anyway. But someone who is such a downgrade and who is or looks much older, well then you MUST have been really sucky and inadequate bc why else would they go for it?

      newchumpatl is exactly right. We are the best they could ever hope for.

      • I see everyone’s point about the horror of the downgrade. However, it doesn’t feel so great when they go for people decades younger than them (or you), either. Frankly, none of it feels very good.

        • No, it really should never happen in the first place. Although, I imagine I might like it if he got caught with a goat or something. I really think that would make me laugh ;O

          • LOL, ChumpyElf!! I am now picturing my X going at it with a goat. (The image would be more amusing if I didn’t feel for the poor goat.)

  • Toward the end of my marriage to Mr. SP (sexual predator), when I was secretly lining up my ducks, he did admit, though he carefully phased it several times in past tense (yeah…..riiiiight), that he put sex he had (was having) in three categories. 1. “Twu Wuv” – which he insisted he had with me, but we didn’t have much sex by his choice (since I was the “cover wife”). 2. Recreational sex (self explanatory) 3. What he called “Charity Sex” (those were his exact words) – where he was bolstering some woman’s poor self esteem, making her feel like more of a woman by having sex with her. (The women in our church he coerced into the sack he put into this category as they were the victims of neglectful husbands.) Obviously this third category was especially repugnant to me, but, in his view, he was doing his humble best for God and insecure women everywhere. Who knew I married someone so altruistic? A noble feat indeed!

    • Ah, the old mercy fuck. Well, nominate that boy for a Nobel Peace Prize for his contributions to humanity. And is there some other intellectual prize we can award him (Nobel prize in Economics?) for his astute analysis of types of sex and their cost/benefits? (eyeroll)

      • Yes Tempest, he could be a candidate for both, along with an Academy Award for his performance as the faithful boyfriend/fiancée/husband. My new therapist has a hunch he may be a latent bi/gay. She says that a “beard wife”, as she refers to me, is more in keeping with the gay lifestyle. Also, she completely agrees I need to turn him into the authorities. I agree that I wish Irish was still posting to get her input on this. Your thoughts? I need a strategy. Hugs to you!

        • I’m supposed to talk to Irish tonight; I’ll make sure she weighs in on this thread.

      • Tempest, more like Noballs Piece Prize. Gutless wonders that they are.
        Maybe he can find a way to jerk off in the offering plate as it goes by as a contribution to the whole congregation.

        • Since he has already exposed himself in a family restaurant for a thrill, he would seize any excuse to whip out his junk. As fabulous as he thinks it is, he would find it fitting to display in a house of worship.

          • :-O

            He exposed himself publicly? Yup, need to turn him in as he’ll ratchet up the sicko behavior (and take precautions for yourself).

            • Yes Tempest, I’m going to confer with my policewoman friend. She would looove to see him apprehended. Hugs to you and Irish!

              • Boudica: Irish is going to try and post some comments to you tomorrow (she agrees you need to pay attention to your safety after you turn over your evidence). If it would help to talk to her, or have a longer email from her, feel free to email me at [email protected] and I’ll get you two in contact.

                Hugs to you–you are very brave! You’re already out of a bad situation, and willing to do what is right for the sake of future victims of your X. That is very admirable and strong.

  • You ready for this one?

    My ex always said it wasn’t “only about sex” sometimes they talk and stuff (with a teenager half your age- yeah right!!)

    Ex turns up in the morning after spending the night with her. This was during our brief reconciliation stage. He says he won’t make love to me because his “penis is sore.” – yes he really said that! Then I start freaking out, yelling and screaming, he replies “I didn’t mean to have sex, I really didn’t”. Then to try and calm me down we have this conversation…

    Him: ” look – it’s not like we were doing it all night or anything…” Pauses thoughtfully “who even does it all night anyway? No one really does it ALL NIGHT do they?”

    Me: “of course they do.We’ve done it all night before.”

    Him: “no we haven’t, we’ve never done that”

    Me: smiling “really? Oh sorry I thought we had. I must be confused”


    • Midlife, that’s crazy! I also got that “it’s not about sex” line, actually his exact words were: “It’s NOT about SEX, Muse! It’s not like she stuck her big tits in my face! It’s not like she wagged her pussy in my face!” (gross, yes!) no, he insisted it wasn’t about sex so I said, “then why did you fuck her? why couldn’t you just be friends,” to which he replied, “that’s what she said too.” So I said, Oh she did? then she changed her mind I guess. I often fantasized about telling OW those vulgar things he said about her but of course I wouldn’t. In the same conversation he claimed “she makes me feel like a man” and “she sees the lost little boy inside me.” Personally I think it’s all word salad; they just throw out words at you to see what will shut you up.

  • Never heard that about the Twat Troll–she is Everything! However, I’m sure SHE heard that about ME whenever he slept with me after their thing started.

    Ugh. What a mess–so good to be so far away from it. I bet their Love is Strong, oh, So Strong….like the stench coming off of what they are. Ick.

    • Actually…I take that back. He did say that although the sex was “frequent” and unhurried (nice to get away from your kids to a cheap motel room, after lying to them about why you can’t spend the weekend with them, and it’s nice to have a dedicated, loving babysitter/wife unit), it was not as good as the sex we had. And that was part of the reason he was confused. I guess that’s what happens when a conniving twat uses sex as a tool. ON a tool. That and the part that she was an entitled, not-bright, jobless alcoholic. And older than I am.
      So, he as much as said that she was a downgrade in so many ways. And, actually, I did take some satisfaction along with the confusion over that. It showed me just how fucked up in the head he really is. A normal person wouldn’t behave the way he does. It really wasn’t about me–it was completely about him.

      C’est la vie.

  • My husband was monogamous to his OW, preferred her, and did the whole Emily Brown split self thing of agonising about what he wanted. I really loved and desired him, and knowing that he had the best sex of his life in his affair is something that still really hurts. I shouldn’t care, but it makes me feel really really less than. I can see myself being a monk for the rest of my life because of this, that my whole heart and self and serious liking of lovemaking was worth so little.

    Could anyone who is in a new,relationship assure me that life can be way better with someone else and you CAN leave this traumatising shit behind?

    • I am so sorry for your pain Patsy and I understand it!!! I have often felt the same way, will I EVER be normal again? Was I ever normal? Was our marriage ever good? Considering fucktard lied to me so much.. what is real and what isn’t?

      First, may I gently suggest that just because you THINK your H was monogamous with OW doesn’t mean he was. And the “best sex of your life” with a tramp, that’s pretty sad. Sex is supposed to be about intimacy and connection, and to be truthful, I don’t think these cheaters are capable of that. Sex is just something they use for temporary distraction and to fill up a void.. but it can’t mean anything if it requires you to lie, cheat, and hurt the people you are supposed to love and honor. If it requires you to give up your integrity.. then what is the point? Anyone can have a cheap thrill, but what good is that long term?

      A lot of us chumps believe (or did believe) that our spouses’ dalliances were with only ONE person, or that they were “conflicted”… I am not sure in most cases that is true.. maybe in some, but not the majority. The majority of cheaters are pathological liars.. and most of them have masks on for everyone, even the AP. Very rarely is it “twu wuv”. They are just jumping from kibble source to kibble source and once our source dries up (ie we figure out who they are) they take off.

      Patsy the fact that you have such empathy, and the capability to love so deeply is a GOOD thing and will be appreciated one day by the right man. Sex is a reflection of the relationship.. if it’s not good, it’s because something is wrong at at the core. Your H is a selfish bastard but not all men are… look at all the good guys on this site. There are men who appreciate loyalty, decency and goodness like what you have to offer. Once you heal, you will find them.


      • I agree, newchumpatl, these losers love to lie. I bet Patsy’s ex threw the old Best Sex Card to hurt her. That’s not really something that enters my mind, and I imagine that’s how it is with most NORMAL people. I think I’ll just spend today wondering if I’m the best sex ever. Don’t forget, these whores are competing with you, and will do just about any nasty shit their fuckbuddy suggests. That’s usually their definition of Good Sex.

        • Exactly, Anita! Asshat trotted out the best sex ever line in passing. I initially thought he was trying to wound me but I really think is just that deluded. And I am not considering what you say about them agreeing to any nasty shit the cheater wants. Oh, I need to shower in bleach now….

          • Yeah, these are people who are flattered someone else’s spouse is screwing them. I remember an ex who had been married before we dated, and he was always telling me how much his ex wife LOVED anal sex. She just couldn’t get enough of it, alledgedly. I was expected to love it too. These people play others against each other. So glad I dumped that disordered freak. Guess I wasn’t his best sex evah…

            • Anita, it sounds to me like your ex was grooming you for his sick choices. I could almost be sure that if you had spoken to his ex wife she would have had a very different story!! These predators say what they think is necessary to get what they want.

        • Exactly Anita, and in the case of my whore, she didn’t have any children.. much easier to have a long fuck fest when there isn’t a 4 year old at your door.

          But even that gets old after a while when you have to actually “deal” with someone.

    • Patsy, 5 years out here and YES it gets so much better. Relationships generally but sex in particular. If your love was “worth so little” to your cheater, that’s on him, a result of his inability to love deeply and value what should be valued. He couldn’t love you the way my cat can’t appreciate Nessun Dorma. It’s just not in their nature. And your cheater’s inability to connect can’t help but leave you feeling alone, as happens any time we love something that can’t love us back.

      Of course, life uncoupled is better than shoveling your love and affection into the bottomless hole that is a serial cheater. However, when you find someone who knows how to reciprocate and is a good fit? It’s amazing, and inspiring. You feel you receive more than you give and you only want to keep up and somehow giving your best self brings even greater returns. Live becomes an improbable equation of 1+1=3. Not that there aren’t difficulties, but there is always enough love to make it though, always an inexplicable abundance where you once knew only that gaping hole. It happened to me, it’s happened to many others. So, yes, it can happen to you, too.

      • nomar, you had me at “my cat”!! It is always helpful to get a male point of view and I always appreciate yours. Your comments are always very thoughtful and helpful.

      • Thanks nomar!
        Still vacillating on if I should jump into the dating fray when my divorce is finalized.
        Offers of dinner and drinks abound but I may not be ready, partly because I’m not sure if I should bother. It’s nice to know it could happen to me too!

        • AllOutofKibble, No need to jump into the “dating fray” until you are ready, but dinner and drinks with friends who understand you aren’t ready to get your feet wet dating just yet can be a lot of fun. Keep it light and enjoy yourself. Socializing is a good way to reestablish yourself.

      • Chumps, Nomar’s words to live by, “life uncoupled is better than shoveling your love and affection into the bottomless hole that is a serial cheater.”

    • First of all, Patsy, that BS is a lie. Their affair is about their character defects, not you. ANYthing is exciting if it’s illicit, secret, new…

      Don’t try and figure it out. Just run.

    • Patsy, chances are high the “best sex of my life” comment was said to hurt you after you found out about the affair. You ruined the cake eating by finding out and holding him accountable, so he had to take a strike at you. He probably knew it would hurt you. As Phi Slam Jama Mama says “Don’t try and figure it out. Just run.”

    • Yes, Patsy, sex is SO much better with someone who actually cares about you and wants to reciprocate in the relationship — wants to make you happy and not just being needy about himself. Having a truly healthy relationship with someone makes all the difference. You have been missing out on the best sex of your life while with him!!

  • This chump has been chumped twice in two separate relationships.


    While unburdening himself of the weight of his guilt, the second cheaternarc (who fancied himself a global do-gooder) wanted my help to figure out the strength of his physical attraction for this errant piece of a$$ because he’s “never really gotten along with her”. WTF?!!?

    Can anyone say, ‘Exit affair’? ‘Broken picker’?

    • I’m sorry NoMoreNarcs. You are one mighty woman to survive two jackasses (though I believe a few people here tie you, or more).

      • Think I got you tied there. But neither of mine I was married to.

        One used the ‘You’re so controlling’ line to his friends, regarding me, when he cheated on me – thinking I couldn’t hear it. My response, to someone who I knew would relay the info back to those ilk? ‘If I were so controlling I would have put a chain around his neck and yanked it hard, if he even THOUGHT of looking at that red headed hag that he fucked. Can’t sink much lower than to fuck your best mate’s youngest sister, ya?’

        The other used the whole ‘We’re just friends!’ line until D-Day – when he admitted ‘I think I like her more than a friend!’ – to which I responded ‘After all these months of lying to me? Go fuck yourself.’
        Him being the narcissistic fuck he was – he just had to respond to me walking off – by sending me an email which was nothing but proclaiming how ‘everyone’ thought I was an evil bitch and nobody liked me at all (Part of that is mainly because this turd went around smearing my name to everyone in our big group who shared a common hobby, and because probably 1/3 of them were as bereft of morals as this dick was, they of course took it on board). Also, that he ‘didn’t care’ if I responded or not, that my life would implode soon enough anyway.
        Joke’s on him, really – roughly 8 years later I’m still waiting for the implosion, while that twit is probably 6 feet under or still waxing lyrical about how ‘hard’ his life is – no idea and I couldn’t give a fuck as to what happened after that day.

        Dumbarses, the lot of them.

  • Mine tried to put all that shit on me: ” You’re going to blow up our marriage over that stupid little girl?!”
    Um, no. I’m blowing up the marriage over stupid little you.
    Buh bye.

    • Love it, Arlo.

      The only thing I disagree with is when you say “I’m blowing up the marriage.” You didn’t; he did. 😉

      • kb, he’s def the one that shat all over the marriage, but I actually do like to take the credit for burning it to the ground 😉
        Only way to clean that mess up…

  • My cheater’s version of this was “most of them weren’t even that hot!!” Um, thanks.

  • It is hard to do well in a contest when only one person is informed there IS a contest.
    I remember saying this to my Cheater. If he were in a contest for his job with another person, and only the other person was informed, who do you think would win?
    You are fat, dumb & happy doing your job as usual, while person 2 is sucking up to the boss, working extras hours & putting forth their best game. Would you think it was fair when you got called into the office to find out you lost your job because you were being compared to someone who knew there was a contest? With something so important as your job, wouldn’t you be livid and feel you were treated massively unfairly?
    Welcome to being Chumped! (However, it would not be as bad because it wasn’t done by your most trusted person, and it would not come close, but painted a picture.)

    • So true, Regina. I was just thinking this morning that X was always making me audition for his “love” (such as it was. He knew I’d never do a pick-me dance, so he orchestrated it to make sure I didn’t KNOW I was always doing a pick-me dance against students, random strangers, other conference goers, etc.

      • Tempest; Like a never ending audition, what a nightmare.
        I was such a Chump, I probably would have been thrilled to get a speaking part. You mean you want me to do more than groan like it is just too big? I get to talk too? Gee, swell.

        • The best thing to do with their auditions is exit, stage left, and let the curtain drop.

  • yep. during wreckonciliation i was told: “i could never be with someone like that…i would shoot myself before being with her”

    high on Hopium then, i thought this was a good thing!

    but ’twas just more lies. i started to see the danger behind his slipping mask which led to my divorcing him. XH & MOW are “happily” together now. although i just got wind of a karmic hurricane on their horizon. i have requested no more information. i don’t care.

    Meh is good for me. i am loving my honest, joyful life…regardless of what befalls them.

  • My fave comment from the narc ex, about 6 months after I kicked him out, and during an attempt to get me to ‘try again’, was ‘But that wasn’t even supposed to be a long-term relationship’ (referring to his ‘thing’ w/Schmoopie).

    Oooooh, that makes me feel much better! You threw away our relationship, and far more importantly, your kids’ stable intact family, for something you KNEW was only a fling. You hurt so many people, for so little.

    Yeah, that really makes me want to take you back …NOT.

    • Isnt it great….. to hear that you were not even worth great sex!!! For a cheap fling!!! I would rather they be in love and leave…. at least that would make some sense!

      • Oh, when I was kicking him out he tried to make it sound like the love affair of the century. But not during the multiple attempts to come back that occurred over the following 2 years. (And some of those were actually attempts to cheat on the OW – such a changed man, he was, a MUCH better person. Who still cheats and lies, and thinks that’s fine.)

  • Oh, forgot this; if my cheater had told me he didn’t even like the people he slept with, I wouldn’t have been surprised. The only thing he needed was availability, and that look of adoration in their eyes. Any other characteristics were irrelevant. Plus, of course, he didn’t actually LIKE anybody, or respect anybody. From his behaviour, consistently over the years, I can only conclude he disliked everyone, even the people I know he loved (as much as he’s able), like his mom and our kids. You can’t treat people the way he did, and talk about them behind their backs as he did, if you like them.

  • From what I have seen, once caught…. they never liked the person or the sex was bad. Mine said it was ego trip she didnt like him and sex was nothing to talk about. Kept going back for more! Hmmmmm

  • My ex had sex with a prostitute in SE Asia who he didn’t even know, much less like and she could not even say his name in English but she wetted his appetite for more girls there. You see he picked her up in a bar in Phnom Penh but the ex clarified that their sex was “something that just happened” as he never planned it even though he had condoms in his pocket!! He told me that he felt awful after they finished but he made sure he wore a condom. The kicker is that he never felt guilty about having sex with me thereafter without a condom. I knew we were finished when at 61 years I had to be tested for stds and I have only ever been with the ex but he made sure I understood that he loved only me and could not replace me, ever. What sticks in my gut is that when we 1st started dating his despicable mother insinuated that I was not a virgin and because the ex was so fussy, she should find a new born baby girl and put her in a bell jar until she was of age for him. He was present when this conversation took place and he agreed with her. Funny how at the grand age of 61 he started chasing young Asian girls who work in the bars and have not been in bell jars. I should have run back then but I was a young, naive girl and didn’t give it much thought. I can see it meant so much more now we are 45 years down the track. Ugh, I was a fool and stupid fool.

  • A really common thread today is that so many of these mangy POS cheaters want to discuss their affairs with their SPOUSES, like they are going to get support from them for their misdeeds/mistakes/true love discoveries.

    So even after all the deceit and dishonesty and hell and torment they have rained upon their treasured life partner, they deserve to be encouraged in all their pursuits. They still expect the person they married to have their back and think of their welfare first. WTF?

    • SO true, Survivor! Mine went thru this infatuation phase with her and talked about her endlessly. I was pick-me dancing like a trained bear at that point, and let him. Still disgusted with myself about that…

      • My assholean ex never admitted to the affair(s) even when handed hard proof in front of a neutral third party, but raved about how much fun he had with friends I wouldn’t approve of and expected me to buy him trendy clothes to run about in with them. I don’t think they want to lose their valuable confidant and assistant, but I don’t think they feel any connection beyond expediency either. Don’t be surprised or flattered Arlo when that piece of shit circles around and expects a second run with good old time-tested you. It happens. A lot.

        • Mine did the same stuff!! Claimed the whore was a friend but flaunted his new expensive clothes, car and his ahem.. new hygiene habits which included shaving “down below”.. He lamented that I “didn’t notice”… I guess that means she did. Sickos!

          • Mine kept expecting me to listen to his problems, support him, let him come do laundry at the house, hang out at the house ‘to be with the kids (while he napped on my couch), maybe spend some holidays together as a family … all while he was ‘in a relationship’ w/Schmoopie.

            He wanted me to keep doing lots of the nice things I had always done for him, while he continued to NOT do those things for me, AND fucked somebody else.

            REALLY? What planet are these freaks from?

            • Mine also expected sympathy for what “he was going through”. Are you kidding me, isn’t twu luv “girl” gold all the way through ( not just her vjay). I really shake my head over that.

  • Maree, makes me wonder how many of us chumps were NOT approved of by the in-laws because they felt we were beneath what their “little darlings” deserved!!

    • Those would be narcissistic parents. No wonder why the “little darlings” feel entitled.

  • The ass grab, when your hands are full – sure sign of love for sure! NOT

    • An ass grab when your hands are full doesn’t say love. It says entitlement and disrespect. Love is taking what is in your hands and helping you with that first. Not acting like an opportunist on a Rome metro.

  • I got the “It’s not what it looks like” routine. I didn’t even know how to respond or what he meant by that. So I answered “If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it’s usually a duck.” Too bad I wasn’t as strong in my convictions to get the hell out of there!

  • “I don’t even like him. Im trying to get rid of him.”

    These were the first words ex uttered when confronted that I knew a lover existed. For weeks she ate cake. We walled ,talked and tried to work it all out. I thought we could get over this hurdle. There was nothing to suggest that a double life had been lived for so long.

    It wasn’t until i got full access to her email and text messages for about a 5 week period that i witnessed the real truth. She had lived a double life for maybe as long as 4 years. The messages were straight out of Romeo and Juliet!-seriously sometimes I had to stop myself either laughing so much or throwing up.

    But when discovered in her own words he was old, grey, didn’t exercise , and travelled all the time for business. His children lived in New Zealand while he lived in Australia. She put him down and mad out he was a pest.

    Well thats exactly what she has now. (Be careful for what you wish for!!!!!)

    I think he just kept the pressure on for years. She knew it was wrong but the deal breaker was getting caught. The final deal breaker the one which other sites promote destroys an affair, is when I exposed in a 24 hour period to everyone in writing including his companies Facebook page (which surprisingly they left up for 4 hours). The real damage was writing to his parents in New Zealand
    . I sent the original anonymous letter to them with detailed truth of exactly what happened. The Ex hit the roof, no she went through it and into orbit! That was the point of no return and glued the ex and CSM together like shit to a blanket. She was on the phone and it seriously melted.
    History is rewritten and all the standard text book stuff on this site plays out.

    As many of you realise and the new Chumps are yet to experience Cheaters lose their integrity and moral standings. Its a huge price to pay.
    The unfortunate part is we get to witness the train wreck only because we care and our integrity remains intact-we just go insane!
    However they continue on their merry way oblivious to the destruction until one day(maybe a long time into the future) their conscious grabs them by the throat and they wake up from their fantasy.

    My beautiful wonderful councillor puts it this way. I was living in a fantasy, I just didn’t know it. The last part of the marriage wasn’t real-I only thought it was real. Im sure this is the same for many of you.

    Its funny but now I think to myself “I don’t even like you! Im trying to get rid of you.”

    Taken some time but thats how you feel when you been abused.

    • Good job,Baci. Most of us chumps come late to the party because we’re kept in the dark or cringe in the bright light of betrayal. Knowing that they suck is a key to a better life, a real one.

    • It’s hard to come to grips that years of your life, maybe decades, were likely a lie. I wonder if my STBX ever loved me, if he’s capable of loving anyone. I wonder if our years mean anything to him. He walked away, left this house, barely took pictures of his kids. In fact, he took very little except his clothes and his exercise equipment. Bought all new stuff.. like a teenager. It’s like he wanted nothing left from our life together. And he treats me like the plague, as if I remind him of all his failures, all his bad behavior, I probably do.

      I don’t like him much either. I thought I did, I thought I loved him. I loved the sweet boy I thought I married.. the slightly pudgy guy who liked to eat, drink beer, watch football and who was low maintenance, happy just to be at home.. then he got restless, started working out, dropped a ton of weight, started chain smoking, wanting to party all the time, and became an ass. I liked the other guy better.. but maybe he never existed either.

      Maybe he was a mirage the whole time. 2 decades of my youth and life I wasted. But I have two sons from it, and I would do it all again for them.

      • I think they come to the conclusion that we served a purpose and they look towards the next stage of their life or they get bored with family.
        The x is off living that life you see in the retirement advertisements, hand in hand on beach and as she was effected so much the Movie Eat Prey Love when Julia Roberts sails off into the sunset with Grey haired Javier Bardem in a canoe in Bali. She often said she wanted to renew our wedding vows in Bali-just a fantasy again.
        Its just about selfishness and entitlement and you can’t compete against it

        • Baci”I think they come to the conclusion that we served a purpose and they look towards the next stage of their life or they get bored with family.” I think you are right, they do come to some kind of conclusion about Their life. And then they twist that life, a pretty decent life, into something that they need to get away from, not something that they want to get away from but something that they “need” to get away from. It truly is their loss, I just wish that I or any other chump didn’t have to be the fallout from that conclusion.

      • newchumpatl–ditto for wasted decades (3 for me) and ditto would do it again — for my daughters.

      • You know, I went through the same thing – I wondered for a long time if the ex ever loved me, wondered if our 31 years together meant anything to him because 3 decades was all a lie.

        Dday #2 was when I realized that he was a serial cheater all that time. I couldn’t look at him anymore and the lack of respect for him showed through. I definitely didn’t like him anymore. We tried MC, but I was done.The ex also walked away without a backward glance – Yep, as CL so aptly said it, I`m one of those that got a tidy little sociopath who recognized that the jig was up and it was time to move on. The only photos he had on display in our house after I left were of his new GF’s grandchild – my daughter was so hurt when she saw that.

        But my perception of that has changed. – it will for you too Newchumpatl and Chumpette- give it time – the wondering is finite, that`s a given.
        My truth is this – I was a good, loving wife and a good, loving mother. I gave our marriage and our family my best. For me, they were good years and my 2 now-adult children are one of my many blessings and joys. I loved being married and I thought that our marriage was great. So I lived my life that way.He fucked it up, and our divorcee is no longer such a tragedy for me anymore. I see that my life is turning out the way it was supposed to – we`re not married anymore and there`s a reason for it – I could not, would not stay married to a cheat and a liar. I was not supposed to stay in a marriage like that. (None of us are supposed to).

        I believe that just the thought of me is a reproach to him somewhere deep down. So he dealt with it by walking away without a second glance, by not acknowledging me, even as the mother of his children. I just don`t exist. (Except twice a month when he pays the court-ordered spousal support.)
        Newchumpatl, you ARE a reproach to him, a reminder of his failures and bad behaviour. That`s not your fault, that`s his shit to deal with.

        I hated the thought that he saw me as his enemy, the dreaded, nasty X-wife, because I was and am a nice person, a loving person and I fought hard against being cast in that role. But that`s his shit and not mine and I have come to accept those things I cannot change.The wondering will fade and cease to be so significant. But I know your pain,,,,,,,, oh, how I know your pain.

        Perhaps it`s Tuesday……..
        Hugs to you all.

  • I believe I may have the worst of both worlds. Mine told me they connect, have passion and he’s not in love with me. But in counseling with our daughter, he said he’s not sure he loves the OW. I think he’s lying to our daughter to help mend their relationship. I hope not, for our daughter’s sake. Fuckedupednessness that was never supposed to be part of our lives.

    • He’s asking your daughter to choose between you and the OW. Not her job. That is stinking bad behavior.

        • Hi Survivor…I believe he’s telling our daughter what he thinks she wants to hear in an effort to stop her from being mad at him. Daughter has made it clear to him that she wants nothing to do with OW. Our daughter is 21 and can make her own decisions. He’s trying desperately to make it all okay, for him. He is basically asking for cake from his daughter, while I still firmly believe he’s enmeshed with the OW in a huge way. He *does* admit he’s still seeing her, but he’s not sure he loves her. Basically, then, she’s a fuck. He blew the whole family up over what has become just a way to get laid. I’m not buying it. Call me a skeptic. He’s in love with her. She left her husband for him. They plan to be together. In the meantime, he’s thinking he can make amends with our daughter so that by the time he DOES end up with the OW, it will all be okay. If I’m wrong, I’ll eat tofu for a week.

            • Bahahahaha Karen E! I’d rather eat pizza, pasta, mashed potatoes (gravy or not), a huge reuben sandwich with xtra thousand island on the side, anything with cheese, and buffalo chicken dip…not necessarily in that order.

          • I experienced the same kind of counselor for my 21 year old daughter. Get her to change counselors. The whole idea that your x’s cheating and finding love “after” you two were broken up is majorly fucked up. i know that “adults’ make “choices”. That’s not the problem, timing is the problem. Disengage, divorce, whatever, before you bring in a new schmoopie. Her father is an asswipe to try and consolidate into a neat little package the bomb that he dropped on your family. It doesn’t matter if your children are 12 or 21 when it was done. For them it was as if their “whole” childhood was annihilated.

            • Yup, this right here. Our kids were finishing HS and one in college when their father left me for his AP. That alone was a great legacy *sarcasm font here :). but he had to do one better and Narc rage out, all while pretending he didn’t actually screw her and was a great guy. I could never fathom the delusion these people are under, to destroy people you’ve spent your whole life with.

      • It all comes down to behaviour. If he spends more time with OW, takes her out and not kids, doesn’t involve kids with major decisions, and places importance of OW before Mum then de is destined to FAIL. Kids are not stupid and with time they will figure out whose there for them.
        He will still be their father but with conditions that the kids establish in their own time. It may take a while but they will work it out.
        The Ex can see the boys 24/7. Its up to her how she does that. She wants the boys to play happy families involving CSM as if nothing happens but the boys know the truth and that blows up the cheaters fantasy. Its called consequence of abusing your original happy family.

        • Exactly. Good luck to you. I have a friend who is a divorce lawyer and she swears that if the kids don’t know better, they will follow the money. If they know what is what, they aren’t so easily led. They see what is happening, and if your relationship with the kids is strong, they will love you no matter what.

        • It continues to amaze me these idiot cheaters think they can just switch out the mother/father of their children and expect them just to go along. The ARROGANCE of that blows me away. Mine actually said to me once “If I am happy, the kids will be happy”. As if the kids’ happiness hinges on HIM? He is CENTRAL to their happiness??? YIKES. That’s totally ass backward. Kids are happy when their family is in tact and when things are predictable.. they don’t care how much tail their father is chasing, or whether their father is fulfilled banging different women from their mother.. but as you say Baci, the creme comes to the top. Usually, the left behind spouse doesn’t have to do a thing. We all pay for our sins.. they are no exceptions.

        • The consequence of abusing your original happy family. That’s a power-packed sentence. Would love to throw that one at him.

          • That is the main problem. The original family is never the same particularly when the cheating other man or woman stick around. My doctor has a very happy co existence with his ex wife and his family but only once his relationship with the cheater that caused the marriage was ended by him because he finally realized the massive mistake he had made and the pain he had caused his ex wife and his own children.
            Actually takes a lot of courage to make amends. Ive seen a number of cheaters do it as their life with the OW turned to crap

            • I think that’s my biggest problem right now…the loss of the family. The graduations, the weddings, the future grandchildren, all will be altered and not for the better, We had an amazing, amazing family. Over 25 years, some very memorable family gatherings. Love all around. He fucked it all up, for all of us. It’s too early for me to know whether any of us will ever feel better about it. But like you said, for sure…if he stays with the OW, probably never.

  • I got really angry when someone said that x was calling Schmoopie, “that damn piece of ass” I lost my family over after she dumped him. You left me for a damn piece of ass, not the twu, butterfly luv that you told me about. Thinking that the x had some kind of feeling for that slut made it seem like at least he thought it through a little bit, that 22 years weren’t just a waste.

    The “i didn’t/don’t even like schmoopie” is pure garbage. Another gaslighting technique they have, a sophomoric play at getting sympathy from you. Cheater Handbook 101.

  • yeah, i got this all the time. “ewww, not him. he’s gross” etc…etc…

    she trotted it out anytime i tried to get to the bottom of her relationship with schmoopie.

    oh, well. she’s the one still in a relationship with a married man. sucks to be them.

  • My cheater said he didn’t even know her name…. so he threw away me, his self respect, his family’s respect, and everything we had together we had for someone who he didn’t even know their name. How do I deal with that mind fuck?

  • My wife told me it was just physical release and none of the men did anything for her. That women aren’t built for monogamy like men are. Then I asked her why not ask for a divorce or open marriage. Her response I didn’t want you sleeping with other women. The best part is she was dead serious. The thought that I had tons of chances to cheat and I didn’t because I was married and loved her never crossed her mind. Can’t wait to tell her about her best friend who’s been married five times who made a pass at me at her b-day party last year. I’ve saving that one.

    • Wow, what a self-centred, selfish b*tch! Please tell me you’re either divorced or in the process of divorcing.

      • The whole monogamy bit was hilarious she really believes it. Even showed me books she read. It was the female version of those crazy men’s blogs I’ve seen.

        I filed a few months ago, was easy to do when you catch her blowing her boss.

    • Of course you can’t have an open marriage, because its all about her, and you can’t do the same thing too!
      Narcissistic bitch. Kick this whore to the curb.
      I think we chump females are testament to the fact that monogamy is in-built.

  • DeadHs main OW was a work colleague who was seemingly a “catch” young, pretty, single, no kids, & good education. She lived her whole life int he US but was 100% Chinese and spoke the language.

    I figured I was in second place right away because of her looks but Hs version of “I dont even like her” was that he would say “She is CHINESE” as if it were a horrible disease answered its own question.

    He used to say disparaging things about what her ethnicity would mean to him…I would fantasize about tape recording him and playing it for her so she could hear what he said about her heritage behind her back, but I never could.

    One funny moment though was when I feared that they would run off and eventually get M and have babies, I literally thought “every time I see a Chinese Mexican German child Im going to be sad”…what a funny thought…as if little kids would be walking around town with tshirts on that said “Im 50% Chinese, 25% Mexican and 25% German just like your XHs new kids”. It was so absurd I actually laughed at myself. Nevermind

  • Monogamy. You either have character or you don’t. I had no problem understanding and abiding by the vows I pledged on our wedding day. We had even discussed cheating (deal breaker #1) in the eight years we spent dating. Looking back when it came right down to it my ex often made decisions that pleased him first. No thought of us, his family. His decisions led him down that path, he chose the affair, and our divorce the happy consequence. My deceased FIL said it best, “A hard dick has no conscience.” Nope. Game. Set. Match. It’s Tuesday, and I am finally at Meh.

  • I can’t help but snort when I read various message boards and see the RIDICULOUS lies these cheaters tell their BS’s – and the BS actually falls for this steaming bullshit!! Some of the most-used lies are, “I couldn’t finish and stopped in the middle and left.” LOL. Or that old nugget, “It was awful and as soon as it was over, I threw up!” That’s a real knee-slapper. And then there’s the old standard, “I couldn’t get it up with her….” LOL. Sure you couldn’t.

    Oh, and there are PLENTY of cheaters who now tell their BS’s how ‘disgusted’ they are with their ex-affair partners and now much they ‘hate’ that person now.

    The truly sad part is that I don’t know who to pity more – the lying cheaters who have zero imagination and have to resort to these over-used lies, or the BS who is so deluded that they actually BELIEVE this garbage.