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UBT: “You Were So Perfect, I Had to Cheat.”

mindfuckchannelBWUsually cheaters run chumps down and blameshift their affairs. You Weren’t Meeting Their Needs. You suck. They love you, but just not in that clandestine-hooker-profile-rent-a-room kind of way.

Yet every now and then chumps get this particular bit of mindfuckery from the self-pity channel:

“I cheated because I was insecure and needed a distraction. I suffer from low self-esteem and every time we were together I just kept thinking ‘What do I have to offer this perfect woman?’ and it ate me up. Cheating gave me the distraction I needed to escape my thoughts.”

(This is an actual bit of mindfuckery sent to the Universal Bullshit Translator.)

I give it points for sophistication. To simply blameshift — “You suck, ergo I had to cheat on you” — is like being attacked with a blunt force object. Maybe a hammer or a piano leg.

To say “I had to cheat on you because you’re too perfect” is like being assassinated by a radio-isotope-poison-tipped umbrella.

It’s cunning! It’s clever!

What’s a chump to do with this? Be flattered? “He thinks I’m perfect!”

Be angry? But you can’t be angry because a) he just flattered you and b) he is a Timid Forest Creature who suffers from low-self-esteem! Any anger directed at him could cause the esteem indexes to crash and could result in calamity — an affair with Josh Duggar. A three-way with the Subway guy.

Look, I don’t know, but it could be DIRE. This man is so distracted by your perfection, there’s no telling what he might do!

How about you stop being so perfect and loosen up a bit? Let this affair(s) slide. Show us your humanity Ice Princess, the one without all the morals and boundaries and shit. Let your hair down and slum with Mr. Low Self Esteem until he feels less threatened by you. You could have an affair too and let him watch! That would even the score.

Or how about you help him with his insecurity? He just betrayed you, yes. Risked your health, humiliated you. I get it. But why not bolster his self esteem? Compliment him! “Lovely sweater you’re wearing today, Conrad!” Did he wipe the crumbs off the counter today? Notice!!!

Or how about you answer the cheater’s question: “What do I have to offer this perfect woman?”

Nothing, dude. Absolutely nothing.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • As always amazed by such comments from timid forest creatures! I have such low expectations about their commentary but what really gets me dropping my jaw are the comments from the peanut gallery…the so called friends who believe that the chumps caused them to cheat.

    • The only friend I lost after Dday and the divorce was the closest friend we had as a couple, she witnessed our dating, marriage, was the godmother to our children, for 20 years was a trusted friend and confidant for both of us…but she has never been married or had a partner (and maybe is closeted gay) so when she gave me advice on first Dday which was to stay with him because I was not being to much of a partner to him since I was spending so much time with the children, I stupidly listened. Then seven years later, one year before the final Dday, she said that I was acting like domestic abuse victim. It really hit me hard because I´m highly educated, and believe myself to be a feminist, how could I be acting like that when I would normally tell anyone in my situation to get out of the relationship? That phrase actually helped me to be aware of the way he acted abusively which I didn´t want to acknowledge as such. Fast forward to final Dday and I kick the cheater out and proceed to divorce, she gets really upset at me because she believes I was just as much responsible for his cheating than he was because I was ACTING like a victim. What she meant a year before is that I was the one who was ACTING, and trying to make her and cheater feel sorry for me because I was manipulating them by playing victim!! She believes that I enjoyed playing victim and the message she was giving me the year before was really “stop playing victim and act like a grown up”. Now they are best friends but she is still mad at me for having ruined our happy extended family where she got to play auntie ..She can keep him, I don´t really care anymore…I sort of feel sorry for her but I am still totally confused on how I mistakenly read her when I usually pride myself in being good at reading characters…But I married a cheater full of red flags, so whatever…

      • WTF ?!?!?! “Playing victim”, when you are the actual victim ?
        Not only the cheater, but also some of the onlookers can conclude that our pain is not genuine ?
        This is so crazy…

      • Sounds to me like your friend was in with your husband, like they talked about you when you weren’t there. She bought his side of the story. You are right to dump her along with your ex. Congrats on moving along with your new life where you are no longer victimized by these two.

        • Also, a person who’s never been married or betrayed really has no idea what you’re dealing with or how you feel. They aren’t good people to look to for advice.

          • I agree with the comments – you ARE a victim! AND not one to take advice from since she has never been married and betrayed by someone. Good riddance to her and your x. Who needs them? Certainly not you!

            • I Am Not a VICTIM, but I was VICTIMIZED! Big difference! I was ATTACKED and BLINDSIDED by a couple of hungry hyenas! Once I was totally aware of what was happening I then defended myself! I am a VICTOR! Never call yourself a victim!

          • Thanks Chump Lady…LOL yep I heard the “you have it together so well, I just felt like a loser in your eyes”

            Well I never thought my stbx was a loser until he pulled his LOSER cheating moves on me.

            I have to say watchout for dumbass therapist. Mind you I was in the reconciliation fog, and told a therapist I didn’t get why my stbx did all this since he admittedly told me there is nothing I could change about myself.

            She said “from what I have gathered you are a good mom, good employee, responsible, you serve your community and have care and compassion for your spouse.” “Tell me something you would like to do better at.” I said,” mmmm run a half marathon and complete a PhD.”

            She said, “there you go, you are very goal oriented , this can be threatening to people with low self esteem, maybe you should down play some of your goals so he will see you as an equal.”

            WTF…so I should smack the kids around, screw up at work, stop helping in my community and perhaps stop being an affectionate wife…that would make me equal so the lying ass will stop effing other people?

            Sounds like a very healthy plan. NOT!

            Ya, I never went back to that therapist. And no offense to some of the woman my husband screwed around with, he played like he was a single stud. But, most of the woman were very troubled, they had multiple issues. Most were super nice to me and told me way too much information. They were victims too. I think he prayed on woman that were vulnerable. As far as any AM whores he hooked up with, I dont know about these woman, but they are screwed up too IMO.

            Am I perfect…not at all – ha I have super low self esteem from all his shit. But, I am not trolling AM, Craig’s list or singles sites. Its all BS!!

            Stay strong chumps:-)

            • X was in a bitch loop from the beginning. When I think about how naive I was as he was fucking the girl downstairs and anyone he could. Here I was being this sweet wife bringing him dinner at his work bringing along two small children. He grew bolder and left evidence behind. He talked about me as if I was a monster bitch wife and I always encouraged him. Want to go to bar tending school, sure. He was fucking the bartender. Want to take scuba lessons, sure find someone to fuck. Want to be a realtor, yes find someone to screw. Yes he had interests but it was always about cheating. He used his business to meet women. God I hate the asshole. I am waiting for his whore to beat the shit out of him and get a restraining order. It will come. There I go with my revenge fantacy again.

      • Chumpita. Similar experience. X narc’s sister ditched me, judged me, said things like “well the marriage did have problems” and finally told me not to contact her. She has no kids never been married, does not get it whatsoever. I felt very hurt by her lack of understanding and abandonment after being in that family for 25 years, and still feel anger toward her and have upsetting thoughts. But I remind myself that she just doesn’t get it. Often I want to screen shot the amazing comments from this blog and share them with her so she gets it. Why her understanding is even important to me baffles even me. I guess I have craved her validation and the tough thing is realizing I will never get it.

        • My super Narc former MIL told me, “If you were nicer to him, none of this would have happened.” My response, “You’re the one who hired the wh***”. OW worked for the family business.

          • Should have said “if you had raised him to be a decent human being this never would have happened.”

          • My x MIL told me “I could have divorced his dad three times over”. End of story. No shit. Had I stayed I would have ended up like her…old, bitter, and alone. the people who understood the most were old family friend’s of my x’s family who had witnessed the same behavior by my x FIL and were not impressed…

      • Odd how you act like a victim…..when you’re a victim.
        You’re right guys, people who have not been there have no early idea!
        Google Omar Minwalla if you need help explaining that to someone.

        • That’s why they say, you find out who your “true” friends are when you go through this kind of thing, I’ve lost a few too and it’s sad. The only one that really matters to me at this point is MY SON! STBXH has turned him against me, I hope some day my son comes around, he’s only 21. BTW, that’s what I keep asking myself, who really matters to me and my life? My son is the only one of all the losses I’ve had. 🙁 I let go and let God with the rest.

          • K50, I’m in the same heartbreak you are. My kid really drank the kool aid. She loves being Wendy to NarcDad’s Peter Pan. She sees me as the cause for all the bad things that have happened in her Dad’s life – like he had no agency. They both believe I ‘ruined’ him. Don’t care about his skein, but sure wish I could help her with hers. I really want to see her grow up and thrive, and she doesn’t trust me at all. So sorry you are going through this, too

            • Hi NoMoreN, it hurts like hell doesn’t it? I praying really hard for my son, that he sees the truth and softens his heart towards me. My STBX always spoiled our son and I had to be the parent during his teen years, so that’s how he got the advantage over me sadly when this happened. My son was great during our attempted fake reconciliation for a month or so, then when that went flat and I left, he blamed me. 🙁

          • Kate50 and NoMoreNarcs–I’m sorry your children have sided with Lucifer. Kate50–I think it is hard for sons to reconcile their image of themselves, which is based on identifying with their father, and their father’s odiousness. It must cause a horrible psychic conflict within them,and some resolve it the wrong way.

            This is why children always need to be told the truth about why the marriage ended, whether the new GF/BF was the affair partner, and why chumps need to exhibit strict indignation at being cheated upon. It doesn’t guarantee children won’t turn on us (after all, they sadly inherited 50% of fucktard’s genes), but conveying the great wrong done to chumps may help the kids to chart a healthier path.

            Big hugs to you both; I hope your children see the light and realize what great parents you have been.

            • Thanks Tempest that makes sense, another thought came to me, his father always gave him the atta boy saying when our son told him about a girl and ask him questions if she was hot, things like that. It made me cringe at times and I spoke up to both of them reminding them how would they feel if something like that was being spoken about our daughters, his sister’s. STBX was NOT a good role model at all when it came to this and now I get why. 🙁

            • Tempest, your insights are spot on (obviously) my x followed in his father’s footsteps. I can only pray that my 11 year old son does not…right now he is all sweet and innocent and I have not “poisoned him” against his father….we will see how that works out in the coming years…power and entitlement are very dangerous.

              • Tempest I have taken your advice and told older dd just a portion of what went on. She is doing a good job of sparkling for her dad. Very well trained. ? but the proof is in the pudding. Who calls her. Who doesn’t. Of course she has a big can of phone slacked because sad sausage is a phamous phonophobic too. I think in time she will come around. Sorry you guys. They are manipulative with the kids too and we taught them to spackle. Oh and 50% genes are fucktards.

            • Thanks, Tempest. Folks here at CN have helped me see that alienation is a real thing. Am totally gobsmacked that the child of my body, who nursed until she was 6, who didn’t spend a single night in a crib – sleeping instead at my side, could believe I’m bad. She believes that my needs come first. That I’m selfish. That because I didn’t make myself small enough, that because I refused to suffer and take the course charted for me by a hateful narc – that I failed some sicko test – earning the rage and jelousy heaped on me (always behind my back).

              He has hurt me because he has hurt her. Just want her to be free of the chains he’s put on her mind and heart.

              My deepest hope is that she figures this out sooner rather than later. Life is short enough as it is, time spent in needless pain is time wasted.

              • A friend pointed out today that my kids treat me the same way the damn x did. That was an eye opener. She mentioned the abusive way that he treated me, everything was my fault from the tiniest things to crap that happened to him at work, we don’t work together. There’s just shit sandwiches all over the place. Stay strong you are worthy of respect and don’t ever forget that

          • Kate50 –

            His father left when he was 9 and my son sided with his dad from 16 to 26. At least this is what I believed. At 27 he has shown me in words and actions that he knew what kind of man his father was all along. I cannot say anything derogatory about his father, even now, or he will become upset. Why? Because I am not telling him anything he doesn’t already know or figured out for himself.

            Be patient. Continue to love him. He is working it out.

            • Thanks for this, Calamity Jane. I also pray that things will change with one of my sons and get better between the two of us. I did tell him the truth of what was going on, but he answered with “dad never says anything bad about you.” I told him too much, I guess. Showed him proof. He is very protective towards his dad, especially since he tells me that without him, his dad would have no one. I just hate what divorce has done to our family, but I have to let it go. All I can do is focus on making my life as happy as possible and pray for healing.

  • When my thenhusband dropped the bomb and subjected me to my laundry list of faults, one of them was that my job caring for the dying made me “too holy” – that I was like Mother Teresa, too good and he “couldn’t compete with that”.

    I do care for they dying but Im just a regular person (my supposed “holiness” didnt stop me form having normal sex with my spouse, he even admited it was great). I never claimed to be Mother Teresa and I had hoped we would be a team, no need to “compete”.

    Fear not, though, a few more ticks down his list of my transgressions was that I was also “too sinful” because I had sex when I was a teenager. I did have sex as a 19 year old…with him.

      • LMHO! I’m sorry. I know it hurt at the time having to listen to and try to assimilate that shit. But that guy is classic. I swear some things you just can’t make up. The thoughts that exist in their brains that make it out via their mouths really should be enough for us to know that their mental channel is scrambled. It is just so hard to fathom that someone’s thought process is really that messed up. I put them on a spectrum. Serial killers at the bottom and I conclude that there are stages of emotional and mental disconnect along the way. They just don’t think like us.

        Was talking to a colleague about her father. First child with is cousin. He asked for it to remain a secret and when it threatened his job he denied and fled to another country. But he continued a life of deceit and lies. He was married…for 50 years but it was not a happy one.He sponged off his wife, cheated and pretty much messed up that family dynamic. He was just a selfish and ‘weird’ man til the end. I guess his wife told herself it was how he was and settled into the pattern. She was loyal, dutiful and forbearing…a Christian. And we know how these disordered love a cheerful giver.

        I’ll say this as I said to my STBX (who said to me when I expressed my anger that he guesses my God is not helping me) nothing says a Christian has to be a rug. In fact one old lady (bless her heart) reminded me that as Christians we are not to cast our pearls before swine. I realized that is what I had been doing, throwing my love at a pig! Mea culpa.

    • OW is very resentful and jealous of her sister and says she has “Mother Teresa Syndrome.” I think these disordered people resent goodness in others because it highlights how selfish and evil they really are.

      • I also got the “you help other people too much” (which seemed to be I coached our children’s soccer teams, drove the kids to extracurriculars, and actually wrote comments on student papers).

        I don’t think they believe it makes them look selfish (they either don’t think they are, or don’t care); when you do things for other people, you are not doing things for THEM.

        • yes THIS^^^
          the stbx called me co-dependent because I looked after & raised our children! Less kibble for him

          • Mine used to tell “I wish you’d do that to me” when he saw me petting our DOG! And then said “why does the DOG get more attention then me?” Seriously, you all just made me remember him saying that at times. I told him he was nuts at the time too, Geez

            • Kate50–

              STBX: “Why does the Dog get more attention than me?” (whine…)
              Kate50: “I like the dog more than you.”

              • Yes! My STBX also complained about the dog – sarcasm and passive aggressive behavior. I couldn’t figure out what the problem was with him. Years later in therapy after Dday he said it made him feel bad when he saw me laughing/playing with the dog…that I didn’t laugh the same way with him. Jealous. He had been holding a grudge about this for 20 years.

              • Mine held a grudge, still does that the kids come to me for help. During reconciliation I made a huge effort to defer the kids to their Dad. Poor children, they were very frustrated. He would put them off because his movie or screwing around on the computer was top priority. Then he would get irritated if I quietly helped them with homework so they could go to bed. I am sorry a third grader shouldnt have to wait for a movie to get over for a parent to help them! What an effing Narc…then he would get all drama “see I am not needed here” ugh I would spakle and it would cycle the next night!!
                I have to say he is right about one thing…HE IS NOT NEEDED HERE! Damn straight, glad I see this now!!

                Thanks chumps for waking me up!!

            • What an arse your husband is ! You’re lovely & give a lot to others (2 blog articles on here & many encouraging comments). What’s wrong with that !!!

              • Thank you, ReformedNumpty. Hannibal Lecher is a complete arse. I now realize he rarely complimented me on anything. The good thing to come out of it is I don’t miss him one iota.

              • Awright, Reformed Numpty! Nice tae see a Scot (I am ayAnk, but bided in Auld Reekie a good whiley).

                Bang on, Tempest! Hannibal was a right bawbag (no translation required)

            • My stbxh was always jealous of my dogs. But my dogs are just so darn happy to be with me and love me to death. Obviously I’m going to love them back! the dogs don’t yell at me the second I walk in the door. The dogs don’t cheat on me.

              • Thank you for the welcome Mehphista. Hope you enjoyed your time in Edinburgh.

            • Ha !!! The dog… I got that too ! I jokingly called my dog “Ros Namour” (“Big Luuuv”) and he said he did not get such a good treatment (wtf?) and then as I was doing my business, he spoke loudly about being humiliated etc. it was so ridiculous, I did not even react. He was trying to convince himself that I disliked him and walking out was the right thing to do.

            • You guys just made me remember that my ex used to get jealous of how I kissed the cat, and shortly before D-Day said to me, referring to our then-youngest son who was 12 years old– “HE’S your boyfriend” —

              And over those many years, at least 15, he was the one unbeknownst to me having multiple affairs and group sex. How in the hell could he be jealous of my love for our pet and our child?

              • Kelly – yep screw going to therapy, Chump Nation is the best for helping me remember all the weird crap I put up with. My stbx had a complete breakdown when I didnt tell him I was taking one of our children out for dinner at a fast food restaurant. I mean complete jealous, totally angry fit! ! Umm that POS didn’t tell me about the effing multiple $100 dinners he bought other woman! !!

                Prior to finding Chump Lady, I cried and felt so freakin isolated. Now – I actually laugh at the crazy crap. And I have found so much strength knowing I am not the only chump in the world.

                You are mighty Kelly and trust you deserve a better life:-) 🙂

        • Tempest – thats what I think too. My STBX loved to brag about how “we” helped the homeless, or how “we” helped out at the kids schools. But would bitch at me for planning or accepting these activities. I think he would have been happier if I sat next to him 24/7 while on his computer. Wait maybe not…his happiness was porn and hooking up on singles sites!!! POS

          • Mine used to take credit for a lot of things I DID! It used to piss me off too!

            • Mine took credit for everything I did that was noteworthy and gave him the chance to brag! If anything I did fell short of the objective, then he would make sure his whole family knew by making me the butt of jokes and his snarky remarks! I had to be humiliated in his eyes to anybody he wanted to impress!

      • Yes, I really think these cheaters need to feel that THEY are the “NORM” and we are the ones out of step. A good MC tried to enlighten my cheater, but of course from then on cheater disparaged that MC and we never went back. This happened more than once, without making the least impression on him, but the validation allowed me to gain a foothold on my sanity along with reading this site. Something I was unable to accomplish by listening to friends and family who hadn’t the least clue about the abuse of an NPD..

        • My XH did this too… you are so vivacious and blah blah blah and CFMily is just so sorry… just like me, I am a sorry sausage too. My eldest daughter even told me the same thing, I don’t have any worries about you, you will be ok, sorry sausage dad, he will struggle. You know they work hard to be so pathetic and it works very well for them. I feel inadequate here, and there and up and down and in bed and cooking, everything I cook turns gray, and doing outside jobs, I just suck at that, and cleaning the house, I am no good at that. I just suck, I think I will just go in the garden and eat worms, big fat juicy ones, little fuzzy wuzzy ones, … oh and fuck CFMily, to make myself feel better, she is at my lame level. Oh and when I am in the garden eating worms, don’t ask me to do or help with any of the things listed above… we cause we all know I suck. So Glad… so glad… so glad he is gone.

  • I got that too… Kind of… Right after D-Day,I asked him for a letter. I was expecting “I wanted us to split because… You are too demanding… You snore…”, or whatever area of improvement he wanted to express. Instead, I got a letter of the love bombing kind. He said that I am perfect and he wants nothing to change… that I can do whatever I want because I always succeed at everything. What was I to do with this kind of material? It perplexed me even more. He had always been supportive in words, and this is part of the reason why I appreciated him. There was nothing to work on, I did not know what to do.

  • Cheaters just have to lay the blame on someone or something. In the end of my marriage I got a lot of this kind of crap handed to me. But in reality I believe my Ex simply was beneath me. He proved that to me by doing what he did with a huge downgrade. Water seeks it’s own level and in the case of my Ex and Schmoopie, it was sewer water. He is right where he belongs, with trash! The further I get from my divorce, the more convinced I am that some of God’s greatest gifts are unanswered prayers. If I were still with him I would be miserable. Let the downgrade and Ex work out their issues. He and she are two peas in a pod. They truly deserve each other and all the misery they caused! I deserve better!

    • I had a friend tell me that early on. The dimwitted whore is his level. That’s as good as he’ll ever do. He outpunted his coverage with you and he knows it. I didn’t believe it at first but total, it’s been one of the smartest thing anyone has ever said to me.

      • I’m convince now that the whore downgrade STBX has acted out his porn fantasies for him, something I would never do and he wouldn’t have wanted me to do anyways and for that reason alone, he liked CAKE!!!!! So yes, I was to good in his eyes for that.

    • Well, you know Roberta, I’ve been wondering about that God unanswered prayer thing. I did notice that events converged towards the departure of my cheater.
      –> The room where he used to watch his laptop screen when he lived at home, started smelling awful once he decided to rent an appartment near his work after D-Day. I never found where the smell came from. I washed the walls, the furniture, the tiled floor, it still stunk like an old grandpa with no hygiene. Then I had to move the furniture to his appt. The furniture did not smell (I would have noticed when they were in my car and the weather was hot). Yet, once the room was emptied, it stopped smelling.
      –> My sister bought a new house this summer and our mother gave her part of her inheritance. I would never have thought of asking our mother for money. Yet, because of this, the same sum was made available for me to buy my cheater’s part of the house, at the exact moment when I needed it.
      There are more “coincidences”, but I can’t remember right now. These two struck me though as being highly improbable, occuring at the right moment over the 15 years that our relationship lasted.

      • ChumpFromF, yep! For some reason these cheaters start to smell like the garbage they really are! Funny you should mention this because one time when he went to visit his Dad, his father had to tell him to take a shower because he stunk so bad! His siblings said his hygiene was horrible. He and Schmoopie went to a tax appointment together and the woman who was preparing the taxes said they had to leave the door open to the business because they smelled the place up so badly! What’s with that?
        I also agree on how our “luck” seems to change. Since he has been jettisoned from my life I have had nothing but good breaks. I just recently found out that an uncle who had no children left me an inheritance! It’s as if I was carrying an “unlucky” charm around for 40 years and now that he’s gone my luck has changed!! It’s awesome!

        • Oh my gosh – I never thought about “the funk” before as being part of their rotten characters!! My ex always had the worst breath. He was meticulous about brushing, flossing, dental care (he is the son of a dentist) – carried mints in his pocket at all times – but his breath was never fresh. It always had a “dead” smell – it got worse as he got older to the point that I was not interested in kissing him much at all.

          • Thank you for this perspective. I was always aware of an air of bad luck surrounding my ex (although that might just be poor life skills!). Being a chump I thought my better luck would compensate but of course it wasn’t to be and his luck trumped mine. I anticipate much better fortune now he’s no longer in my life. ?

          • ^^^THIS Nicole! Ugh, Fuckwit had the mist foul breath I’ve ever encountered no matter how many brushings or mouthwash.

            I got to the point that I refused to kiss him passionately…only a closed mouth peck. Once I found out about his “activities” I chalked it up to going down on gutter slut vag. Blah, even peck kisses stopped then. Of course, his reasoning was that I’m just a frigid bitch.

            LoL…I wish he’d ask my wonderful chumpy bf about my “coldness”?

        • That’s so interesting, the Funk of their rotten characters indeed! My cheater moved to our adorable guest house, and it now has a funky smell! He has not taken care of it at all…. Filthy bathroom and toilet. For months after d-day while he still lived there I would scrub the disgusting toilet bowl ring with his toothbrush. Even though he lives with Schmoopie now, he still has his crap in the guest house that could be rented out for much needed income! I cleaned out his closet at home, washed shelves with 409 and lysol, had the carpets professionally cleaned, saged it and fabreezed it….still has that funky smell I cant get rid of. I hope once the divorce if final I will be free from neary 40 years of his rotten energy and have some good luck come my way too.

          • Chump Change, you actually saged it? That’s great! I believe truly that they are so “rotten” to their core, dead men walking, the evil has over taken their whole being! What else could it possibly be? But it proves to me that they don’t even respect or love themselves enough to do the bare minimum of hygiene! They know deep down they suck and they actually loathe themselves!

            • Oh! I love the toothbrush-as-toilet-brush idea!
              My X had the funk as well. Perpetual bad breath, he also stank at the first sign of sweating. He was immaculate with his personal hygene, save one thing: the epic skid marks he left in his underwear (he favors bikini cut undies). This man couldn’t even use the same bathroom as I did – at his insistence, but I was washing his underwear in a separate load…in hot water, with lots of Lysol. What’s up with that? Not properly toilet trained?

              • CC-try scattering rosemary needles and leaves for a day-jam em under the rugs and smoosh all the aroma out. It kills the mid-range smell.

                My ex used to smell of sandalwood and good whisky, but toward the end he reeked of cheap cigars and this sort of metallic smell. It left when he did.

                On with the purification!!!

            • Yes Roberta, I’ve saged the whole house more than once to remove the bad energy. Even set off the smike alarms! Mehphista, I’ll try the rosemary next – thanks!

          • Chump Change – why on earth haven’t you thrown his stuff out yet and rented that place? Worse case – storage will be cheaper than losing rent!

            • I’m still laughing at “washed the toilet bowl ring with his toothbrush.” 😉

              • I loved that too! I worked in dental for years and this grosses me out, but who am I to tell the lady of the house how to clean a toilet bowl? Ha! Ha! Ha! Too good! Actually wish I had thought of it, but cheater grandpa wears his dirty ass dentures 24/7! Yuck!!!

            • KRK, he is legally supposed to be living on the property until he pays off a negotiated settlement from a lawsuit, that resulted in. $1.2 million dollar lein on our property. It should be paid off in October, and the lein removed, so I’ve decided not to rock the boat. But it majorly pisses me off all the waste of income. I’m going to advertise it as available for rent in October.

              Carmella and Roberta, I relished scrubbing the toilet bowl skid marks and filthy ring with his toothbrush, then seeing his smarmy smile knowing he had used it to brush his teeth. He is scum…

              Sadly, My friends tell me my story is very much like plot of the movie “The other Woman”…

        • My allergies are considerably better and under control for the first time in 20 years with him out of my room! I hadn’t connected the dots until now. OMG, even my immune system was trying to tell me!

          • I had stomach pains so severe that I was considering having my gallbladder removed. I got rid of 210 lbs of douchebag & I didn’t need surgery after all 😀

            • I was concerned about my memory when around him, could’nt find things and felt confused at times, thought it was just stress, now I’m having no trouble with that anymore at all since I left, wonder if I was living out the movie “Gaslight” with him around? OMG

              • Wow. Me too. Captain Evil was on vacation last week and hanging around a lot. I didn’t realize how tense I was until he went back to work. And I’m always so much at peace when he travels for work. Life will be so much better when he’s gone.

    • Roberta

      Haha when I think if the pig he is with I believe I was perfect comparatively. Perfect for someone else.

      If I were a dude I would have to be pretty drunk, blind, or just a plain idiot to fuck that!!

      • Yeah Donna. If I met him on the street as a total stranger I wouldn’t give him two seconds of my precious time! He’s a bore, he’s socially inept, has the manners of a pig, and just exudes some sort of vibe that repels me! I see nothing charming about him at all!!

        • Almost a year after d-day, I look back at our ‘life together’ and LAUGH. She may be decent looking on the outside, but ugly on the inside, with the personality of a sloth. I guess that’s fine for someone that’s into laying around watching TV all day (every day), eating crap fast food and being a lazy judgmental bitch, constantly blaming other people for her unhappiness. Sure, she likes to pretend that she’s exciting and fun, but in reality she’s a wholly uninteresting creature, with whom I have approximately nothing in common. Good riddance!

  • My exh fed me that crap. He also told me how horrid I am. So, I am mean, scary, boring, stupid, and perfect.

    • I got the “you’re too good for me” spiel sandwiched between the rages and plays for sympathy – typical 3-channel behavior. He cycles through them all, trying out whatever he thinks might work. It’s why you can’t believe anything they say because they don’t say things because they feel them, they’re just manipulating.

  • It’s all part of the magic act. Blind you with a compliment ( love bombing worked before – right ?!?) and your hands will be tied.

    You were so awesome it made me feel less than awesome, so to even out the playing field I had to stoink the neighbour!

    See – still YOUR fault. But geez…you are great 🙂

  • Is this kind of like the pity party blameshifting? I got, on one point of the pendulum, “you don’t deserve this” to ” you think you are so perfect” sarcasm.

    • They are all over the map, cause they are MAKING the SHIT UP as they go. Liars can’t do nothing but lie. It’s their nature. Even if they weren’t before, it’s what they become.

      • ^^^ALL OF THIS!^^^
        “They are all over the map” indeed! Not only is their moral compass broken, so is their sense of direction. Cheaters remind me of a dog during an energy spurt, chasing their own tail.

      • Yep.

        Got the same BS from my STBXW. Apart from being an “amazing father” and a “great provider,” apparently I was also a “controlling,” “manipulative,” “abusive” jerk who couldn’t “let her go.” I couldn’t let her go to the point that the one who filed for divorce was… me! 😉

        • I know what you mean Sephage. My Ex told everyone we were drifting apart, nothing in common, he was Sooo innocent! Yuck! If he was so unhappy then why was I the one who filed for divorce? These people are nuts!

      • It blows my mind sometimes how MUCH I can relate to so many things said here, maybe they’re all possessed with the same demon?!?!! Scary.

  • Like Unicornnomore… mine mostly insulted me at bomb drop, and in the months later. None of my overtures to show I loved him were enough. His biggest complaint about me was that “I didn’t ever show him love or fill him up”. He supposedly did this for me, but I never did it for him. I didn’t realize that was my job, to personally fulfill him. Funny all those years I didn’t feel like I was eating bon bons, I was busy raising kids, working a job, paying bills, you know.. the usual shit. If I neglected him it was because my life was busy and hard, like everyone who has a family. I thought we were in this together. We weren’t special. The stupid irony is, if I hadn’t loved him.. I would have kicked his ass out at BD instead of fighting for the marriage in every possible way.. including eating shit sandwiches for months choking down his ridiculous explanations for his continued contact with the slut. I wouldn’t have worked on my “flaws” as tirelessly as I did. I was a pick me dance ballerina!

    At one point when confronting him about his obvious transgressions.. he said “Perfect little newchumpatl.. you never do anything wrong do you?”. It was sneering and angry. He still never admitted it.. but he always tried to “equalize” my mistakes with his.. which is the king of mindfuckery. Instead of OWNING his mistakes, he would throw them back in my face and somehow make it about me. I would say he hurt me, he would bring up something I did that hurt him. It went on like that for months. He never owned any of it. It’s like he just couldn’t. His revision of our marriage was like a lifeboat he clinged to for dear life because if he didn’t have it, he’d have to admit what an asshole his is. Like CL says, they lack the character.

    One of his final insults was “You are lucky you are beautiful, you will find men”. It’s a compliment but it’s an insult. As if my looks are all there are to me. It told me that all along, that’s all he’s probably ever valued in me. He’s not that deep. I am “lucky” I am beautiful on the outside.. that’s what counts. Not who I am. He sucks. I trust that he sucks.

    • Wow my situation is so similar to yours. I was “so kind people were going to take advantage of” me but I also didn’t fulfill my husband. I think he thought I had 50 hours in a day. I, too, worked, took care of two kids, cooked dinner every night, cleaned house, did laundry, scheduled date nights for us, etc. all while he spent endless hours on his beloved hobby, I mean “passion” of scuba diving. So for years I was kind and good and the best person he has ever met. But at bomb drop, I’m still all those things just not to him. I didn’t make him a priority, was “a great mom but a horrible wife” because I didn’t make every moment about him. He is a spoiled entitled man-child and anything good about him was all an act.

      • Sounds all so similar. You took the words right out of my mouth. Holy crap…. I am about to learn a TON on this site. With the help of this site I can finally articulate what has been going on for the last 4 months. DAMN!

        • Welcome Chummydoo! You will realize that cheaters all work from the same script. I guess depravity is very predictable. You will learn a ton here. I’ve been on here almost a year and I’m still learning. It has really opened my eyes and empowered me. Hope it does the same for you.

        • No offense, but I’m so damn glad I’m not the only person on the planet who lived that nightmare.

          • The club nobody ever wanted to join.

            Chump Nation is on my gratitudes list, every night. Because of you all, I am not alone.

    • “but he always tried to “equalize” my mistakes with his.. ” YES, Newchumpatl. My not keeping a clean enough house, and refusing to pack only a carry-on suitcase for a 3 week vacation, and showing stress doing 95% of the parenting = his banging grad-whore, then an undergrad, then more students and hookups from his adult sites.

      Seems equivalent, right?

    • I was told, “you are pretty you’ll find someone else” as well. I was so insulted! Only a few people got it when I expressed outrage about it. It’s called objectify you….assholes! I also got the ” what about when you did (enter false equivalent here) to valid hurtful things he did.

      • I got that, too! He said, “It’s not like you’ll have trouble finding someone.” I nearly fainted from so much compassion.

        • Not me. All I got was “You’ll make friends. You always had more friends than me.”

          So I guess I’m not pretty enough to attract men but hey, I make friends easily.

    • I got the same thing, “you’ll never have trouble finding someone, they’ll be lined up for you”. Cheater script for sure. Why do they say that anyways? They want us gone?

  • “Or how about you answer the cheater’s question: ‘What do I have to offer this perfect woman?’
    Nothing, dude. Absolutely nothing.”

    I am all for answering the cheater’s questions; it puts the mind-fuckery into amazingly crisp perspective.

    My example:

    Cheater: “Would we even date if we met each other now?”
    Me: “Let’s see… would I even date someone who lied about tens and tens of thousands of dollars of debt, accumulated in secret rather than saving for her own kid’s future, and then who had an affair with the town philanderer who’s old enough to be her dad, and then lied to her husband, kid, mother-in-law, and countless others about it? Uhm.. hell NO, I wouldn’t date that person!”


    • OMG.. I got the “Would we even date if we met each other now”. This is when he was trying to tell me that we had nothing in common… despite 20 years together and two children.

      Then I was pick me dancing so I tried to convince him but I wish I had just said… “Hell No”. That’s my answer now and it’s final. LOL. So funny they all use the same lines.

      • We had nothing in common either, except 36 years of shared history and a family. LOL. But OW had everything in common with him because they worked together!

      • newchumpatl : Same here…. he was trying to justify himself saying we have nothing in common anymore and he has no spark for me oh and he hasn’t been happy for 2 to 3 years. Although the day after saying this to me and finding out he may want a divorce he tries to have sex with me. After 20 years and two children as well. Even though he went out and just bought a new camper for OUR family. He apparently hooked up with my best friend too who we took in as a family friend and watched my young kids here and there. SICK and twisted. The excuses, lies and lack of taking responsibility for his shit are exhausting.

        • Chummydoo, yes, they always continue to try to have sex with you, in spite of the fact that you are “disgusting, too fat, old, ugly, etc “. I guess banging a side whore isn’t enough for them

          • OMG, he said this to me the last night before I left when I was sleeping down in the basement spare bedroom, “can we for old time sake?” My answer was “F*ck Off!”

      • Newchump, I got that too! Wonders if I would be attracted to him now if I met him today say in a bar talking!

        He says a women like me would probably find him old and boring, cuz I have so much to offer the someone.

        I told him, “Ild probably find him attractive still, enjoy talking w him, but the second I found out he was a cheater… Adios!”

        Such a narc.?

  • Considering how violently these cheaters swing, without provocation, between “You’re horrible,” and “You’re perfect,” I wonder how many of these them, including mine, have Borderline Personality Disorder.

    • My suspicion is that my STBX hovers on BPD if he’s disordered at all. I agree that he’s not behaving rationally, but that’s different from a disordered individual.

      My STBX hasn’t given me any justification for the affair. I told him I knew he was having one, that I was not going to stand in the way of his Twu Wuv, and that I was seeing a lawyer. Outside of “And your point is?” as a response to when I told him I knew of the affair and “If that’s what you want” to my comment about seeing a lawyer, I’ve had nothing.

      That’s probably a blessing.

      • A blessing in the end, but painful none the less. We really are just Lego figurines to them; swap out the old, swap in the new.

      • kb-oh God I would love to slap silly, obnoxious jerks that respond to a statement with “and your point is?” As far as condescending put downs go that has to be the lamest. It is the adult equivalent of “I know you are but what am I?” crap we used to say in grade school.

    • How many cheaters have cluster B disorders?
      I’d wager ‘all of them’ given the sheer amount of deceit, pretzel-twisting logic and “you’re not the boss of me” behaviour involved to willingly fuck someone over.
      Normal people, or even slightly ‘abnormal’ people just simply don’t have the lack of empathy involved.

  • I’m leaving you for your own good…hurt at the time but turns out was true in the end. Only major problem with that was the months of mc while secretly cheating on me. Couldn’t kick the cake habit.

    • Yeah, mine also said this too.. “this will be good for you too”. Uh, huh, whatever helps you sleep at night bud.

        • This one I did get in the form of “we’ll both be better off”.

          Yup, Newchumpatl, whatever helps you sleep at night.

          He had my whole future life post his abandonment all planned out in his mind. I’d make friends, my Dad would die and I could rent out his apartment to someone who’d do the yard work or I could get a condo, my Dad could buy me a car (he’d been lobbying for this for months, I think from the beginning of his decision to walk. He was angry that I wouldn’t ask my Dad to do it. I would never expect my Dad to buy me a car and we didn’t need two cars anyway since I mostly worked from home.)

          None of this was because he was worried what would happen to me. It was to ease his twisted mind. He’d be cruel and hateful one minute and then try to start rubbing my arm the next. They’re really f’n crazy.

    • Yes! Mine left the kids and I because he didn’t want me to end up like his mother, trapped in a loveless marriage to a raging narc and serial cheater. At first I ate this up thinking he cared so much about me and that he was admitting that he was so remorseful and wanted so much better for me. Actually, it was just among the many useless lines he used so that he could spend more time with his lady friend.

      • Totally selfish but in a way he is repeating the pattern and in his haze of fuckupedness, he sort of realizes it. I agree his motivations are not what’s good for “you”… being a good man would mean committing to BREAKING a bad FOO pattern and being a good person… instead he just resides himself to the shitty pattern. As if the inertia of family shit cannot be overcome. Bull!

        Weak, they are weak.

    • “If I had left 5 years earlier you’d be so much further along in dealing with this.”

      WTF? Oh, so now that it was been over 5 years since you left I feel sooo much better about having My Life 1.0 ripped away without warning. Rot in Hell!

  • I definitely got the backhanded compliment thing too – “You are an amazing person….I don’t deserve you…I’m not the man you need right now…I never felt good enough…” And at first, I ate up every last bit – when his actions started to not match those words and I called him on it, that is when the laundry list of horrible, awful things I did came to light. So confusing…two days ago he was singing that I’m an amazing woman and today I’ve always been a cruel and critical bitch. Go figure.

    • Yeah I got a lot of that too. “What right do I have to be married to you if I feel this way about someone else?” Funny, he didn’t seem to think too hard on the reverse question…

      • No shit… what a bunch of scum bottom feeders they are and have become. Does anyone ever wrap their head around these total pieces of shit?!!?

  • I recall one incident during the implosion of my marriage that stands out to this day. I had a wonderful relationship with my in-laws. We were discussing the idiots affair and his Mom and Dad were telling me to dump his ass and clean his clock then run and have a great life. Even they knew he was a waste of space. His Dad said, “We have always known that you are far smarter than he will ever be.” Then they both started to laugh about how stupid he really is and all the dumb shit he had done and I had saved his ass from. FIL said, ” you can’t paint this turd anymore, flush him!” HIS own Dad! Then his Dad proceeds to tell me that he changed his will so that his Son and Schmoopie will get nothing! I was shocked! Even his parents knew he was an idiot.

    • I had a wonderful relationship with his mother and his.. step father. His father had cheated at mid-life. His mother had given him another chance and he had blown it. So, his mother knows how much it hurts to be discarded.
      When his mother learnt about OW#1, the forgiveness and OW#2, she told me to dump his sorry ass, not worry about him any longer, and enjoy my life in the beautiful area where I live.

      • THIS ChumpFromF, his father told me to divorce him, get all the assets, close the door, lock it and destroy the key then go have the good life I so richly deserved! His Dad passed away just days before I actually accomplished that dream, but I wish he had lived long enough to see it! Thanks to a visit from his Son who dragged Schmoopie along, he passed away that day of a heart attack. There is no doubt in anyone’s mind that his Son And this downgrade caused his death! His Dad told him over and over again that she would NEVER be welcome anywhere near the family,but apparently my Ex was going to shove her down his throat! We will never know because he suffered the fatal heart attack just minutes after cheater and Schmoopie were leaving town! How awful is that?

        • Roberta, your X dragged along his unwelcomed Schmoopie to see his father – going against the very clear sentiments of his Dad, and most probably causing his father’s death?! That is beyond horrible! Let me guess, X doesn’t connect those dots at all, and ascribes that the heart attack was just “one of those things”.

          • You hit the nail on the head Boudica Reborn! He is in deep denial about that! I think he just cannot handle the obvious truth, but he’s going to have to live with the fact that everyone else knows that this is probably what happened! His Dad was so disappointed in him and he was broken-hearted over his Son and his antics! It’s awful!

            • Roberta that is despicable!

              Mine would have attributed it to the other person’s “weakness”. Everyone but him was “weak”. He just “sucked it up” when things were tough. It’s easy to “suck it up” when you have no heart or empathy.

    • Roberta, for all the pain your ex caused you how WONDERFUL was your father-in-law! Having supportive in-laws like that is rare for most chumps. Treasure that! Are you still in contact with your MIL? I hope so because I can’t believe the pain she endured literally watching their son bring on a heart attack. OMG and hugs to you and your MIL- prayers for your FIL.

      • Unfortunately my MIL was fighting bouts of dementia and during all of this it progressed to the point where she is in her own world! The last time her idiot son visited her she thought he was the maintenance guy there to change a lightbulb. If you show her a picture of her son she has no idea who he is! He BTW NEVER visits her at all!

  • Yah know? reading this today makes me realize that my situation was a little different than the compliments. My ex H spent so much time trying to excuse his own behavior, for me, and his own conscience that he treated me with a crazy hatred. He actually told me he wished he had never married me. Of course that changed later when the affair partner lost her luster… but I think that they make excuses for not only us…. but perhaps their own sanity… what little there is? I also found it weird that he became a complete drunk while he was having an affair. Easier not to have to think or face what kind of person you truly are… or what you are doing to your wife?

    • BrittneyK, all that behaviour is directly from the Cheater Manual. Nothing original, sorry to say.

  • And that is exactly how I answered that question.
    I got that shit too. “You’re always so perfect and you know everything” So I’m smart and on top of things, therefore it drove him into the arms of a woman he had imperfection? in common with? Yeah, whatever.
    Settled everything in mediation yesterday! 77 day from filing to signing.
    Worst part is he was given 30 days to vacate.
    Be mighty and answer that question the way CL does.

    • AllOutOfKibble, you have been on my mind! I was wondering how everything went for you in mediation! Tell me you got everything you wanted!

      • Thanks guys! I appreciate the thoughts. I get to keep my house, my car and the biggie – my retirement, all of it, even though he had saved only a fifth of what I did. He gets to keep his biz and has to pay the kids health insurance (a biggie to me) and 60% of kid’s expenses. Can’t believe I get to keep all my retirement. Maybe not everything I wanted. He was given 30 days to vacate. Difficult to get through but can do standing on my head underwater for the chance to live an authentic life of joy!

        • OMG! I’m so happy for you! Sounds like you did well! Enjoy your new victorious life!

        • Alloutofkibble – Congratulations -Wishing you all the joy. The wait must have been nerve racking. Something really does shift when things are finalized.

          Back in the ‘70’s I’ll always remember my mother choosing to sign her divorce papers on Armistice Day. She had chutzpah – and she went on to really come into her own – and was happy. How I miss her – I look to her path now for inspiration and guidance, and the importance of authentically coming into your own. ..even though I can just about hear her now, she is reminding me that she was never that keen on my ex, But did I listen?

          -Authentic life of joy sounds beautiful!

    • Congrats, AllOutofKibble! I tried for the easy divorce–but STBX hasn’t been interested in doing the easy, classy divorce. He’s dragged his heels and now it’s over a year since filing. I am soooo ready to lose this cheater!

      However, if he insists on dragging it out to the very end, I’ll still be a free woman by November.

      Good for you for being so decisive!

  • Yes, that is a huge mindfuck. Someone on CN commented about how no matter what us chumps do, it’s never enough to stop bad behavior from our spouses…’if I ate the bananas, he was mad because they were gone, if I didn’t eat the bananas he was mad because they went brown.’

    Just goes to show that it’s a no-win for the chump. They’re going to cheat/mindfuck no matter what. It’s what they *do*.

    • My cheater complained that we didn’t have sex enough.. so I ramped up the initiations.. to show him I agreed, and would do my best to fix that for him. And I honestly meant it, it was a valid point about our marriage.

      A few months later he complained because I “initiated too much in the morning”.. and he was still tired. He was tired at night too.. after his “workouts” and he did his damndest to avoid me. Plus we have these two little kids, jobs, responsibilities and shit…. sure 10 am would be great on a Tuesday but we have jobs… remember? I do recall some Sat/Sundays in there, but who is counting? I suppose the lunchtime trysts with the whore were more exciting.. hard to repeat that with a toddler at the door. Whore has no kids so she has no such encumbrances.

      He actually complained about the “timing” of the sex. You seriously can’t win. I feel quite certain I’ll find a guy that won’t complain about that. Good luck with your hotel hookups.. I hope it’s fulfilling!!!

      • I got constant complaints about that too. Nothing I did was ever enough, so I just gave up trying. I used to say he could go for months without saying a word to me, but as long as the sex was regular he’d think everything was fine. No matter how much I tried to explain I needed an emotional connection he didn’t seem to get it. My counselor seemed to think he might have Asperger’s. He was super scientific.

      • Ditto with my ex, too. His #1 complaint was the lack of sex. I started marking it on the calendar so I could PROVE to him how frequently we in fact did it – probably more so than the average!! Then it was his dissatisfaction with me in bed… I could not win. It was all so ludicrous!!!

        • Can’t believe I’m saying this….he told me he wanted more BJ’s, that was the problem, then “cough” during one after that comment, he said to me, “you’re the best at it” and that bothered me at the time. Then I learned after that he was with a hooker the week before that night!!! He was comparing ME to the hooker ack! What a PIG.

      • Ohyeah, same story. We had a little kid, and I was supposed to seduce husband in the mornings between taking kid to school or daycare, running the home, and making it into work. Oh, and running another home business. STBX of course worked from home but only contributed about 20% of income it took to support the family.

        For the first 8 years of the marriage, Hubby would stay up until 1 or 2 ‘working’ (probably porning, I now realize) as I did the parenting, household chores, etc and then went to bed about 10. He’d come to bed in the wee hours and wake me up snoring, even after I had made repeated trips to his in-home office nearly every night begging him to come to bed. I would have to transfer to the spare room to sleep; H refused to have any testing done about the snoring. Really not sure why more men are not snuffed to death with pillows- it was damn tempting.

        Apparently I should have taken my child to school and come home to seduce him after he woke up, then I should have headed back off to work. (Yes, I supported us 80% of income and 95% of household responsibilities.)

        But when Schmoopieville came to town, Hubby was suddenly in bed, asleep, by 9 pm. I was so foolish, not realizing this was so he could be up and sequestered in his office to talk his lover all the way into her job during her 7-8 am commute.

        Ugh, the pain of past choices…

        • SHEESH!! Mine also did the stay up until all hours of the night.. supposedly playing computer games but I am guessing porn too. I also wanted him to come to bed at night but he never did.. he chose to do what HE wanted, yet it was my fault we were disconnected.

          He also went to work super early too… I realized later that was so he could speak to the whore on the phone. I don’t know why these whores think they are getting a prize!!

          I also worked and did nearly 100% of the household work. He gave the baby a bath nightly and wanted a bitch cookie every time for it. He said “I do more than most men”… I don’t know where he got that comparison.. his own Dad? Pathetic.

  • He wrote in poor sausage mode: “You have to accept that I may not do things as well as you do them, and you have to teach me”.
    During the years when he cheated, he ironed most of our clothes and that was nice, but besides this, he did absolutely nothing around the house, neither inside nor outside, and he left his dirty clothes all over the place for me to pick up.
    These days, I am still struggling with a psychological paralysis that plagues me, when I want to work on the house. I have worked until I dropped in the past and my body remembers it. Makes me cry in frustration.

    • CfF, I felt like that too after X left. Like many of us here I had responsibility for all the household upkeep, repairs, cleaning, laundry, grocery shopping, and I was exhausted too. I finally admitted to myself that I could no longer stay in the house i had loved and raised my kids in as it was just too much.

      Now I am renting a much smaller place, still getting rid of stuff with bad memories attached, slowly replacing everything X ever touched. It is taking some time after 30+ years of marriage but now my place is so much cleaner and lighter and it is so much easier to sleep and rest. Here I don’t feel like I have to work until I drop – I can treat myself well with no one nagging and whining at me all the time, and I know when a thing is done it is done properly.

      Be gentle with yourself and rest. I will sit at a cafe in VIeux-Quebec tonight and raise a glass of good wine to you!

      • I love French Canada NewMeme! -Have not been to Quebec City but Montreal (old and new) is one great town – so vibrant. If I need to let go of my house I am tempted to rent a little house somewhere for a while – something much simpler without all the homeowner worries and heartbreaking memories – all the things you mention.. It sounds inspiring to be starting anew in a lovely city. I’ll be thinking of the USA version – toasting from the cafe!

    • Oh, ChumpFromF, my HasBeen was never one for home repair and taking care of things. Now that the house will be all mine I have a laundry list of repairs and improvements to handle, like buying a lawn mower and using it, renovating & rewiring two bathrooms, fixing the pantry door, painting etc, etc, etc! When I try to start on this whole mess I just freeze up! I can’t quite break it down into bite size pieces of what to do first.

      • Chump from France – I too am having a complete emotional paralysis block in the house we shared, and I now own. I renovated this house – with boundless energy I poured my heart and soul into it and now I can’t warm up to it – and am at a standstill with no energy. But the memories of holding up the forte, our life, taking care of this house have left me feeling so depleted. I fear I won’t ever feel the same about it. That makes me sad. This piece surprises me because I loved this house.

        • Chump4

          I went through that at first with my home. It took a while and now when I look around at my gardens, yard and patio my son and I built I am happy I stayed. It’s home. X has been driving by (purposefully) when he doesn’t have to and I think yup, you gave this up to live with a pig in a dump. Enjoy the work you did and make it your own. I got rid of every last thing that even remotely reminded me of the loser asshole.

          • Donna,
            -Kind of similar situation in that Ex has been slow to or hasn’t changed mailing address so I leave it in guest vintage trailer which is his – so he calls and drops by once a month to pick up. The property really is a natural oasis and yup he scorched earth himself out and into a city duplex downgrade rental. He must be missing the view. – I am going to give it a year to see if I can make it my own home, check back in with myself, hopefully get my energy back, – It is a really sweet place but whatever happens, it won’t be scorched earth whether to stay or go. I think it’s the flight response to all this that has me surprised because I am really a hearth and home person.

            You are right in that once I really get rid of every last thing that reminds me of him, I know I’ll feel better. And, I am in the thick of that process. Ugh…

      • AllOutofKIbble-congrats and once ex vacates you’ll be able to figure out where to start. I would suggest a good, thorough feng shui type clean first.

  • I think a version of this is: “You don’t need me anymore because you’re so accomplished. OW needs me. I need to feel needed.”

    • Young, you are right in my case, one of the things he told me was “you are too independent!” when he was considering cheating, (or maybe already was) I remember being very confused with that comment, like WTF? Who wants a clinger on? Well, cheaters do it seems. This is why they have to go so far down the food chain to find someone who has been in the workforce for 30 years and still has a entry level job, who has multiple kids from different guys, who is in debt and addicted, etc.

      • Yup. Got the “You’re too independent” as well. But also got the, “You neglect me, don’t pay enough attention to me, don’t care about me, are selfish, don’t shave your armpits, are too messy, too focused on career, too focused on kids (younger one was 6 months old), aren’t feminine enough, don’t know how to enjoy life because you don’t like loud clubs, don’t dress fashionably enough, stomach is too big (still had pregnancy weight), having second kid destroyed marriage, hair too thin, don’t cook.” I think the cheaters just try to put everything and the kitchen sink in to try to justify their affairs.

        • I got the “you’re to independent” too. And the “you neglect me, I just want to be your knight in shining armour (WTF), you’re too messy, you don’t care about me, I thought that you didn’t love me anymore, aren’t feminine enough, getting too old, getting too fat”. I was left because I didn’t need him anymore, didn’t love him anymore (what was I doing still married to you asshole), if I would show him I loved him it would be different, the house wasn’t sparkling clean, but we both worked and he didn’t pick up a damn thing, he was also a clumsy MF, spilled stuff everywhere, didn’t bother cleaning or telling me about it until the damn stain was set. Oh and I didn’t care about his every thought and wish. He damn aged me with all the bullsh*t so no I wasn’t going to grant his every thought and wish, plus I would have to have been a mind reader to accomplish it.

      • Do they all have the same script from Cheaters Central Casting ?!

        I got the “You were too independent, I couldn’t do anything for you” – and this from someone who got into a major sulk if I asked him to put his dirty washing in the laundry basket !!

        So he picked someone who was “in a bad place” – problems with her fiance, parents getting divorced – who needed him. Someone who was as thick as a brick, left school without a single qualification and was working in a factory packing widgets in boxes. This someone won’t challenge him intellectually, picks up after him and doesn’t complain about his 2 minute effort at sex.

        I’ll take “independence” any day !

        • Whoop whoop Juliet!! Independence is a favorable trait!! Our pickers didn’t know to pick independent husbands!! Trust your indepenence, every day is so rewarding seeing all that you can do alone, stress free and without the POS judging!! 🙂 You rock!!

    • They don’t like independent, honest, or loyal. They want someone needy to put them on a pedistal. Therapist said he was with the piggy because he couldn’t get intelligent or attractive. This is an understatement. He had to dig to the underworld to find the skankiest whoreslut imaginable. A life of cheating and he ends up with his exact match.

  • I have said to myself many times that the biggest crime I have ever committed to myself was trying to make sense of what a known liar was telling me. It is like a scorpion who stings to immobilize it’s prey to just sit there and wait to be devoured. I wanted to believe him so badly. Tried to make sense of it for him. Really sad in retrospect. But now I know that I am just a Chump. Someone who gives truth and expects truth in return, someone who takes my mate and family into consideration when making decisions, someone who puts fairness ahead of my own desires/wants, and someone capable of truly caring about another person beyond the superficial “what can you do for me?” mentality.
    Do I think I am better? No, but at least I know what I can live with, and live within it. The Chump mindset may be the type that is dwindling.

    • Actually, Regina, you ARE better, and should recognize that! Nothing would work in this world if everybody was a lying selfish cheater, the world needs more chump-type people! And isn’t it a great feeling to be able to live within YOUR values and choices?

      My ex used to always throw me off by saying ‘oh, you think you’re perfect’ or ‘you think you’re always (Which I now, FINALLY recognize as just a way to distract the conversation from his ACTUAL bad behaviour.) Ya know what? I am NOT perfect, never thought so, but I’m WAY better than he is. And I know I’m not always right, but I’ve been right far more often than he has.

      • Yes KarenE; It does feel good making only choices I feel good about, but the ones I have trouble with are the ones made for me by him. Some of them I will never stop paying for, and some of them affect my own self image regardless. You are right about how they distract the conversation to change the subject away from their deceit.
        Appreciate your supportive response though, needed it today.

  • I got “you and the kids were always happier when I wasn’t around” (working, traveling, and spending time at the racquetball club, the last was where he spent every extra minute he had), ” you did it ALL. The house was nice…,” and “I just want YOU to be HAPPY.” But the BEST line was “I did everything I could to make myself HAPPY” (because a wife and twenty eight years together and three kids just made his world crap!) after saying, ” I LIKE EVERYTHING about MY LIFE except for YOU.” Yeah, Mr. Perfect. Funny thing is…my first thought (and I am not religious in the normal sense) was that his poor choice was a gift. A higher power knew my one precious life was wasted on a crap human being and chose to save me. 😉 I think Tracy and her amazing blog is just another great example of this! Rock On!

    • Mine also said that.. he spent “20 years trying to make me happy and I never was”. I don’t recall never being happy and I also don’t recall him spending all that time on my perpetual bliss but whatever.

      • newchumptatl, it’s amazing how they blithely re-write history, to make themselves look less like shitheads.

        My ex did all the blame-shifting, false equivalencies, gas-lighting and general mind-fuckery for the whole time we were together. But he was actually honest with me for a brief moment, maybe a year after I kicked him out. He admitted that I really had done many things over the years to try to support him, make his life easier, show my love and help make him happier. Then he admitted that IT HAD NEVER CROSSED HIS MIND to do the same for me, or EVEN FOR HIS KIDS, even while he was demanding it of me. I realized that when he had been good to us, caring or nice, it had been because he felt like it. And most of the time, he didn’t feel like it.

        Sometimes they make it easier and easier to trust that they suck.

  • Young, I got a version of that also! Poor Schmoopie was supposedly in an abusive marriage and was so incapable of finding her suitcase and front door for some 29 years!!! Yeah, right! He just had to rescue her! I call BS! She’s a manipulative twat who used the shit out of her then husband who was working his ass off to provide her with a lifestyle that any woman would have envied and what was she doing while he was earning a quarter of a million a year? Why she was screwing any willing participant on her FaceBook friend list who would listen to her tripe! She has now got to be disappointed with her “prize” who is deeply in debt to the IRS, has been recently diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, turned all of his assets over to his wonderful Ex wife( that would be ME) and has NO job! Wow! Winner, winner chicken dinner! Have a ball Schmoopie! I’m too busy laughing my ass off on the way to the bank with an alimony check that you no doubt had to back with your money! How’s that working for you two “love birds?”

    • Roberta,
      Your input gets me all charged up. I have a similar attitude to Assclown and I find just thinking about the happy couple maybe once a week makes me all warm and fuzzy…the “schadenfreude effect”. I am so very grateful to OW for carting him away. Hope she enjoys his smelly feet.

      • I know Marci! Ain’t it great? I sit and chuckle to myself quite a bit about their “great love affair”! Does it piss me off sometimes? Yep! But for the most part I think they get everything they deserve and more! All I can envision is him whining at her the way he whined at me for 40 fricking years! I just love playing that in my mind! I want her to have him now! I want him stuck to her hip like the useless appendage he is! It’s just delightful for me!!

        • I wonder how OW is going to like sitting home alone multiple nights of the week while he goes out with the boys to do fantasy sports activities. Or him spending hundreds of dollars on it.

  • Mine said ‘you are perfect perfect for me’ but what I didn’t ask was was he perfect for me? What did I want.
    If only I had it might have saved me a lot of time and heartbreak.
    Later while he was still telling me what a wonderful person I was I realised that what he was seeking was the lower level OW. It was of course all about him and his low self esteem.

  • Unbeknownst to me at the time that my ex-husband was fucking very young prostitutes during his lunch breaks, he one day came out with this line, out of the blue…. “you know, I think you’re getting prettier in your old age.” I might have given him a quizzical look, but my Chump heart still accepted that as a fucking complement.

    PS- when this remark was made, I was all of 42. He was 51.


    • Eww, GTT. That reminds me of something my creepy X said when he was trolling adult web sites and banging strangers in the middle of the day. He said, “you have a fit body for someone your age,” in a way that led me to think he was comparing me to someone else. Yuk yuk yuk. Off to take a shower with bleach.

      • Mine complained that my skirts were too long and my heels too low. I needed to wear more “revealing” clothes. Who wears sluttier outfits? You got it!

  • Oh yes, I recall many things that the ex sad to me in this degree. One second, I was the love of his life and then one second I was the devil. He loved to blame shift everything on me and to others. When we separated he was telling so many people different reasons why we were no longer together. None were true of course.

    Then I got some phone call with him crying saying he knew he was a terrible husband and other bullshit blah blah and more blah. I asked him why was he crying because I wasn’t going to feel sorry for his ass anymore. Then when the same breath he got so pissed off. I just laughed and hung up. Now a couple days before this phone call I had another call from him yelling and screaming at me about a bill that wasn’t paid. I told him it was not my problem. I am no longer at the place and he needs to pay it (under his name). So the narcissistic rage was very strong with him and I saw it the entire time I was with him and not with him.

    Also there was some threats that he was going to destroy me and my life. Then at the end he acted like he was my best friend-right. I never thought that btw. Oh yes, he said when we split up that he wanted us to be friends. I told him we were never friends and friends don’t treat each other how he treats me and others around him. Oh yes, that really pissed him off. I laughed again and hung up.

    I swear to god I heard about 40 different stories on his reasoning why we broke up. My reason is one HIM!!!!!!!! Well maybe two now HIM and his sad disordered mind (which has nothing at all in there btw).

    Now his Schmoopie aka owhorewife is what he wants. She can have him. I truly believe she is as disorder maybe even worse than him. I think both of them are just enabling their poor behaviour and inside those doors I know what is going on because I lived it for 20 years. He was always good at pretending things were perfect when we were around others. His family/friends and him were at nightmare. The more time goes by the more I know without a doubt he is truly disordered.

    Seriously what does a young little girl like her have in common with a man that is 20 years old than her and 5 years younger than her mother? What parents in their “right” mind think this is ok? Loads of generations of disordered people on both sides I guess.

    • 40 different stories here too. At least. Love your one reason-him! Ain’t that the truth.

  • This is the line I got over and over after D-Day….. “you have no idea what it’s like to wake up every morning knowing that you’re not good enough, and at any time you’d figure that out and just leave me.” Poor sausage. Maybe if you spend over $100k on sleeping with hookers, fly one to Vegas with MY frequent flyer miles, and jack off to porn all day I’ll stay. Totally insane thinking. I also got, “you’re so perfect that no one could ever be good enough for you.” The number that these kinds of comments did on my head has not been easy to heal from.

    • My ex commented at one point post-separation that I ‘made him feel like a bad dad and a bad husband’. (Whereas on the contrary, I spent a ton of time and energy throughout our entire 14 years together trying to encourage, coax, educate, coach, and push him into being better at both those things, while SIMULTANEOUSLY doing everything I could to feed his poor shrivelled self-esteem. Yup, Super Chump.)

      I just looked at him. I think he got the message; if you don’t want to feel like a bad dad, try being a good one. And if you don’t want to feel like a bad husband, try being a good one. It’s not actually that hard, you just have to show up, and give a shit.

      • Raising my hand here. I, too, got the oh-so-sad comment several months before D-day about how he felt like a failure as a parent and a failure as a partner. Like most Super Chumps here, I rushed to reassure him what a great job he was doing (NOT), and of course he lapped that right up. Knowing what I know now, I wish I’d just said, “Yeah, you called it,” gotten up out of bed, and just walked out the door right then. These guys know exactly what they’re doing. They KNOW.

        • FMT…hell yes they know what they are doing and the BS “oh poor me I am such a bad parent, such a bad husband” its over. I am calling it how it is. He whined there are no recent pictures of him with the kids, but tons of pictures of the kids and me. Believe it or not – I said “sounds like a personal problem” and walked out of the room. No shit there arent many pictures of him….wait there are on the internet singles sites though!! Put those in your life scrapbook asshole!!!!

  • It seems they always look at the superficial! “She’s younger, she makes me feel young”! Really? Dude, you are STILL 60 and nothing, absolutely nothing is going to change that fact! My Ex is living with a 52 year old and admitted she looks older than me! WTF? Who knows? I’m with another poster who stated that they are all over the map! Any BS lie or statement will do. The statements they make are random and situational depending on their goal! I don’t put much stock in anything that my Ex said or says anymore. He’s an unreliable source!

  • I think looking back on it that the narcissist chooses to have an affair when the chump seems to outshine him or her. They liked it when they were a 10 and we were less than a 10. But the minute they perceive that somehow we were doing better as a parent, friend, or in our careers, it creates a problem for them. Everyone likes the chump more?! Oh no!
    So when they are complimentary, that is the truth but sadly they don’t want to be with someone who is better than them on some scale. Hence the down-trade. More comfortable for their ego if they think they are of higher value.

    • I think they actually tie themselves into an unsolvable knot. In the beginning, they want so much to be with someone as great as chumps are. Because ‘winning’ us makes them look good, which in turn makes them feel good.

      Then over time, here they are stuck beside this great person, and ya know, they’re not that great themselves ….. And they start to realize they look bad by comparison. Can’t stand that! And they realize that ‘infatuated adoration’ is leaving the chump’s eyes, because a) life, and b) narcs make shitty spouses/partners/parents/workers etc. Oh no, they might have to deal with reality! And the consequences of their own shitty behaviour!

      Can’t have that! Move on to next partner, get the shine for a bit, repeat …..

      • It beings to mind the Prince Charles / Princess Diana scenario. Married the most beautiful woman, she got all the attention, and the old narc just turned to his longtime FB for an affair. Sadly, OW could be the next queen!

        • Maybe so, Marci, but both of them will still be old, gross, and morally bankrupt. It will be interesting to see if the Princes William and Harry cheat too.

          • I think it’s definitely affected William and Harry, though I don’t know if they’ll cheat. It took William a long time to make up his mind about marrying Kate. The press dubbed her “Waitie Katie”. Harry seems in no hurry to settle down.

            I definitely think Camilla will be Queen. It’s disgusting, but I can see it coming.

            Anyone see the Diana film? The scenes of her spending her nights alone after the divorce are heartbreaking. It also broke my heart when I read somewhere that she was still hoping that Charles would come back to her in the end.

            • I didn’t see the Diana movie, Lina. Do you remember the name of it.? That is sad the way she got treated. I really admired her. She was pretty but her spirit just made her exceptional. I just don’t understand how things work out.

              • I do believe Charles was cheating all along and princess Di had it VERY rough with the Royals, but she did a LOT of cheating herself. Check out the facts. We could make excuses for her, but us Chumps have to stop that.
                I did cry like a baby when she died though, because you could see both the beauty an the pain within her. So sad.
                I do believe William & Harry will be cheaters. In fact, it is said that Prince Charles does not want a DNA test done on Harry because it is common knowledge that many think he is the son of the polo guy she cheated with-I forgot his name, but it would be easy enough to look up.

      • They do read from the same script. “You made me feel inadequate. You will find someond else” as I tried to help him find a new job so he could be with his OW (he supervises her still). His “younger, happier version” of me is 30 years younger than him. Let us see how that turns out. My divorce is final on Tuesday and I also feel like God has been watching out for my son and me. My son is so much happier since STBXH has been gone. Actually, we both are so much happier and this site has helped me on a daily basis. Thank you all! 🙂

  • I did get that line “you’re out of my league, successful, wealthy, lots of guys probably want you”. So, I interpreted it as the guy just letting me know full on that HE was too insecure to see himself as lovable by me. This falls into the category of “when they tell you who they are, believe them”.

    Little did he know I would have stayed forever.

    Now when a man alludes to such thoughts, I don’t waste much time on him. It’s part of having fixed my picker.

    • As part of my picker-fixing, I have promised myself I will run any time a guy says I am “too good for him”. All the men in my rearview mirror have said that to me. Nevermore!

      • Yup, ’cause they’re actually right; we are out of their league, and we are way too good for a cheater narc!

  • My relationship with cheater was like this :

    dating and marriage pre-kids (8 years) “you are the woman I have been waiting for all my life” “you are awesome” “you are brilliant” “your are sexy, beautiful, etc”

    marriage after -kids (another 8 years) “you are a prude” ” you are always tired” “you are disorganized, lazy” “you don´t do enough for me” “you always….” “you never”….

    after final Dday “you are too strong” “you are too smart” “you are too good” “you are a great mom”

    after divorce “you are a manipulator” “you are a lier” “you are an extortionist” “you are mean”

    • ChumpNoMore, I sat in deposition with my Ex. When asked his reason for divorcing me, his answer was: ” roberta is a wonderful wife, a great Mom, she’s a great lady” I don’t know.” You should have seen the look on everyone’s face! It was classic. Even the court reporter was confused! These lawyers, especially his lawyer, had a look on their faces as if someone had just shit on the glass table we were sitting around! It took a couple of minutes for anyone to say a word and then his lawyer suggested a break! My Ex went directly to the restroom and promptly threw up! He knew he was doomed and so did his lawyer! It was golden I tell you! He was questioned for an hour and a half. His lawyer asked me three questions one of which was my name and address, then announced he was done! My lawyer and I were giddy!

      • That’s funny Roberta! My ex said he’d often wondered why he wasn’t happy since I was “so nice.”

        • But it couldn’t have been anything wrong with HIM, noooooooo, of course not …..

        • Lyn, it was at that point that everyone in that room knew exactly what his “new romance” was based on due to a series of other questions prior to his explanation for divorcing me! It was all but pointed out that it was about willing free pussy and secret excitement! Even his lawyer seemed disgusted!

      • Roberta, I was always so confused my now XH after BD he told me I was his”best friend, great wife and we have a wonderful relationship”. I was what’s the problem sounds like what everyone wants in a marriage, why do you want to divorce me? Ah but he had found his soulmate and he had NEVER been IN LOVE with me. They had a spiritual connection, yep, internet EA for couple weeks with Thai lady whom he hadn’t met yet and couldn’t speak English. Of course, what was I thinking doesn’t everyone throw away 22 yr marriage away for some two week love affair! Usually when I tell strangers they look at me incredulously as if it’s some kind of Twilight story.

    • Chumpnomore – your relationship breakout in four phases is really priceless – These are captions for the New Yorker with a series of chumplady cartoons! .

  • I have learned that – if you are dealing with a BPD/Cluster B – then this is how their mind really works. They are a distinctive beast and in my experience are like dealing with a three year old.

    The other kind are master manipulators who just throw out ‘red herrings’ that are meant to confuse the crap of out you. My EX said I wouldn’t be the type to go on a bike tour through wine country in France. What’s the relevance? He never planned this kind of trip/ it was not his dream. (I am a pretty adventurous traveler.) This was a reason he gave during MC (during the failed false reconciliation) as to why he was unhappy with me = I suck.

    In my ‘meh’ state, I know he sucks.

    • what is it with France? Mine also gave as an excuse “you never took me to live in Paris” even though we travelled to places most people only dream of (including Paris). Now I believe he meant it seriously, though I took it as a joke…but of course, he was acting like a 3 year old !

    • Mine had the same toddler-style complaints – even though I am an adventurous traveller and we have lived abroad most of our married life – he said because he was married and had a family with me he never had a chance to live in “the jungle” – a wish he had never expressed during our 28 year marriage! He said this during our failed false reconciliation, too. I wish I could say that he has “traded down” but she’s 24 years younger than me, speaks multiple languages and is presumably ready to move to the jungle at the drop of a hat. Very mindmessing.

      • Kabuki, I might be wrong, but these cheaters have alot more BS to dish out than just cheating. Try to remember you are free fromall the other BS. Give yourself a little giggle…the OW is in for even more BS I am certain of this. He has refined his BS over the years…let her live with it. NOT YOU!!

        Now go do something for yourself!! You are free from the manipulation and control. Life will be wonderful…go get it!!:-) 🙂

      • Kabuki; Give him the loincloths in the divorce and he should be good to go. What a flamer!

  • CL – so grateful you included this example in our chump education, and what also feels like an ongoing “critical incidence debriefing.”

    the negative blameshifting i received was equally balanced by tripe like this. verrrrry confusing and mind messing indeed.

    a memorable moment during the time XH was 2 years into his secret adulterous affair (while i believed he was just having a midlife crisis) i was confused by his haranguing mix of the laundry-list of my flaws and my wonderfulness, so one day i commented to him:

    chumpette: so, am i a monster or a saint to you?
    cheater: yes

    at the time we had a good chuckle. i had gotten to the point in life (age 51) where i knew who i was, did not sweat the small stuff, recently recovered from breast cancer, and had confidence our marriage would withstand his latest struggles. well it didn’t. and now i know why.

    3.5 years post Dday, 2 years divorced, as i think more clearly about how i found out — i was told by MOW’s married ex-boyfriend, the one she was having the affair with before she started one with my then husband — and the perfect timing of support angels who swooped in after DDay, it was a perfectly coordinated navy seal rescue. thank you, God!

    DDay is horrific — but it is also our rescue from the terrorism of infidelity.

    • Ha ha! When he was deep into his wonderful affair and was viewing me with complete discard and contempt, I got all these mixed messages – I don’t love you any more and never will again/you are a terrible wife and have let me down/but don’t talk about divorce.

      Even after complete bewilderment I said to him ‘what do you want of me? If I vanished in a puff of dust and cost you absolutely nothing and you could get on with your life, is that what you want?’ Him: NO! But this is all your fault, you are a terrible wife…

      They are like toddlers. Toddlers with a lot of emotional and economic muscle. I was absolutely devastated and crushed (I did love him, a lot)

  • There were many DDays for me – I was queen of the Chumps and stayed for 30 years. I wish CL was around back then. Excuses were never that clever though

  • Apparently we had little to no sex (kids must have been immaculately conceived). I didn’t appreciate him enough (um, probably true. I didn’t drop to knees and praise his return home after the bar or sneaking around with OW). I didn’t support his dream for his business (I guess supporting him after he got fired and then started said business wasn’t enough). I can see now that he became a fucktard when things went well for me.

  • I got the common or garden ‘you were a terrible wife/who let me down/who disrespected me/who treated me with contempt’ (because expressing dissatisfaction or raising issues is SO ABUSIVE to a sensitive soul).
    The most validating things I heard were from men who heard he had cheated/for two years/in the house and said ‘he sounds like an asshole’.

  • My ex wife told me that she felt “squeezed out as a mother” and that I was too involved as a father.
    Apparently me signing off school trip forms, made her feel less of mother.
    Go figure.

    • Okay, that one takes the cake. I don’t think my STBX ever signed a school form in his LIFE. Kudos to you LondonChump for being involved. Most women want that!!! She’s NUTS.

  • I heard that I was “too nice” and “too good.” I also heard that I wasn’t young enough, thin enough or pretty enough for him anymore, and that no one else would ever want me.

    Well, I WAS too nice and too good for him. And I wasn’t 21 years old anymore. And I’m even older now. But the cheater was full of shit when he said that no one else would ever want me. I’m happily married to a fellow chump who is also too nice and too good. The cheater ex has been pushing up daisies for some years now after divorcing the younger, thinner and prettier OWife. No one else ever wanted him.

  • “I just felt like I was always letting you down… I could never do anything right except bring home a paycheck and be present, in attendance, at home. That you didn’t respect me and everyone else was always complimenting you and never me… and even when I did get a compliment from someone else, it was something you’d done and they didn’t know or you letting them think I’d done it. I just felt bad about myself and [insert ho-workers’ names here] made me feel like I could do SOMETHING for them… to make them feel better. [Insert mindless flattery here… a ride there… a shoulder to cry on in the parking lot]. And that ended up making ME feel better about myself.”

    I let him drivel that on until he finished and then started laughing. I then asked what he DID ever do for me? Had he ever actually asked himself that? What was the answer?

    You want praise and admiration? THEN DO SOMETHING WORTHY OF IT.

    I’m sooo old-fashioned.

    • And FTR, I praised him constantly… I’d dig myself into the tiniest little crevice of A Nice Thing I could find and praise the crap out of it, literally. I would thank him for EVERY paycheck, even when he was making $250/week and not trying to even find a better job, after 2 years of that garbage. I thanked him for every twinklet of fatherly decency – and dammit, I WAS truly grateful. I thanked him for opening the door for me. For bringing out the trash (sometimes.) I thanked him for doing the little things that most people take for granted… little things that even Narcissists recognize are things that are ALWAYS expected.

      I praised him to the umpteenth… and what did he say after I pointed that out? “I knew I didn’t deserve it.”


      • He sounds just like my x, poor sad sausage, timid forest creature, who tried so harrrrd and got very little to no praise, not!! I still can’t figure out if what bothers me the most: that I actually lived with that crap for 22 years or that he actually would say similar things. Ultra chump here. I’m still shaking my head at this. I’m truly trying to be gentle with myself and I truly believe that the x really just wanted to live some kind of soap opera life, with improbable scenarios included. Why on earth did I ever beat myself up over this ridiculousness, I’ll never know. But the main objective is to treat myself gently for being lied to and blame shifted on for so many years that somehow I just started to let things go and not question or comment on the crazy stuff that he used to say and do.

        • DeeL, thank you for your post…I am stuck in the “why” did he do all this. Why did I stay so long? Why did my life turn out like this? All of my children were home this evening. We had a meal while they all chattered about the new school year. It was great, laughing and supporting all their hopes and dreams. I got so mad at my stupid mind!! For some reason I thought about him, how he was missing out, and then I got mad! My children got shafted! That selfish bastard. For what? He lives alone (possibly a one night stand for company, who knows). Geez, it just doesnt make any sense. You are so right – I need to stop asking why, because there is no sane answer.

          • freefall, be gentle with yourself. There are many times when I too think about what x is missing out on. And getting mad about it is perfectly ok. It’s part of the healing process I think. My kids are older 21 and 23. My 23D got married last month. It was totally bittersweet. This was one of the many things that I thought that we would witness together as a family. He was there. It had been about 2 years that I hadn’t spoken to him. I stressed on this but I had to be supportive of my daughter, she invited him. He starts talking and damn it really hit me that He Is Just So F*cked Up!!! Everything that I may have thought that I could put aside I found out that there is no Damn Way that I could. They are just that sucky. Just like CL says “trust that they suck”. They do. I’m leaving my x to his damn soap opera life and you should leave yours to his “possible one night stands”. That’s all they truly deserve. Well wishes for you and your family and for this school year.

  • Mine told me he was so lonely for me when he was away,((airline pilot)) all he wanted to do was share things with me, and “if I didn’t believe him, I could ask “her,” she will tell me how much he loves me and misses me. In fact she’s jealous of you ((me))and what we have!”


  • I got a version of this mind fuckery – cheater said that our marriage was so great in every way except sex so he cheated to get the sex he needed. He said he had no intention of leaving me and told that to the women that were his recurring fucks. He of course didn’t need to say this to the one night stands or prostitutes.

    Never once did he attempt to talk to me about his needs before he repeatedly cheated though. That simply makes him a liar with no integrity or values and I’m glad he’s out of my life.

  • When cheater ex attempted to reconcile months after the divorce and while living with the OW, I asked him why he cheated. His response, “We were having problems and I thought it was the right thing to do at that time.” Definitely a character-defining moment. Who the heck wants to be with anyone who thinks cheating is “the right thing to do” on any level?

    • Obviously he STILL thought it was the right thing to do, too! He was trying to cheat on the OW with you! My ex tried to do this, while telling me he was a changed man, a much better person. Really? Coulda fooled me.

      They really have no values at all.

      • KarenE, and when he cheats on the OWife, he would also think it’s the right thing to do!

  • I got both from my ex. He wrote me an email after Dday saying that I was a good wife, took great care of our home and son, and was a good person. But then continued that he felt no passion for me, and I was boring because I like to read and garden. That was when he was still being nice, it got a lot nastier after that.

  • “You Were So Perfect, I Had to Cheat.”

    Anyone who says this clearly doesn’t know the difference between “had to” and “wanted to.” Typical cheater refusal to own selfish behavior.

    • Good point Nomar! But these “small points” get muddled in the cheater brain!

  • I swear that cheaters would write you Haiku in Sanskrit if they thought that would get them off the hook.

    Like many of you posting today, I got the “I’m not in your league” (his exact words) ploy. I was a college graduate, had a successful career in the same profession for 35 years – 30 with the same company. Faithful, kind, loving, and compassionate, I was passionate about several causes, and put in lots of volunteer time for them (still do when I’m able, and I can add Pathological Education to that list now).

    He voluntarily dropped out of college because he didn’t want to “take all those unnecessary classes” (just the fun ones). He never had a profession (he had no drive to have one). Instead, he went from job-to-job, and several short-lived network marketing and other home-based opportunities. I was surprised he was making a decent income for someone with absolutely no ambition, and a minimum set of job skills. Actually, when thinking about it, I’m not really surprised. The jobs he managed to land were a result of his spotting, then charming the people who made the hiring decisions. When I asked him how his life would look if he could be anything he wanted to be, his reply was: “Retired”.

    That was not only a red flag, it was a stadium-sized banner – but I didn’t see it.

    You’re absolutely right – when someone tells you who they are, believe it.

  • OMG!!! Great post! This I what I heard! When I ask him how he could do this I got all this talk about insecurities that I had no idea he had then I got how great he thought I was and that I was such a good person he never felt good enough for me!!! And I almost feel for it and almost felt sorry for him! But it didn’t take me but a few days to snap out of that and realize what BS that was!

  • Recently, my ex told our son that he was reading an old holiday card I had given him (it creeps me out that he apparently still has all the cards I gave him over the years) and because I had written “Hopefully next year will be better,” ex said he realized that I was never happy and that is why the marriage ended. Talk about revisionism: first of all, I had meant that hopefully we would have more money the next year, and secondly, ex wrote that same phrase on every card for YEARS until I finally told him to stop writing it!

    When son told me this, I simply replied that the reason the marriage ended was that ex cheated from our dating days until our divorce.

    • Gladitsover – i got similar revisionist stuff. i really like your factual reply to your son!

      after the wreckonciliation & divorce, he used my few marriage meltdowns as proof our marriage ended due to his “it was 50/50” logic. since we were together 27 years, that’s not too bad a score ESPECIALLY considering: a) what/who he really was, and b) they were in response to major issues like ..his financial infidelity!

      with our young adult children, he does not provide specific proof of what was my “fault” why the marriage ended. rather, he eludes to vague but really BIG THINGS he had to PUT UP WITH that ended it. and the 4 year adulterous affair was insignificant. i am beginning to think he really believes all his lies now.

      all this is from the same guy who was also advancing my candidacy for sainthood, as described in today’s topic.

      i used to feel badly about my meltdowns. now? not one bit. wish i had more actually!

  • My soon to be ex wife’s biggest hang up has always been our ages. Its only six years but she used it as justification, that because I was younger I didn’t find her attractive anymore. Or because I kept in shape and she gained a little maybe ten fifteen pounds that I was keeping my options open. Never mind she had been cheating for years. My age is what did it because she felt insecure.

    She even used my 30th birthday gift as an example. She hired an escort for the night to have a threesome which we had talked about. I asked her if she was ok with it. That I’d be happy just having sex with her and be ok with watching. She encouraged me and wanted to have fun. So now because I enjoyed it and the escort was in her early twenties it proved her point. Crazy

    • Theres something just fundamentally red-flaggy with a birthday gift like that, especially when theres no previous big discussion about being in a non-monogamous relationship.
      There’s nothing wrong with an age gap as long as the people involved have decent values. 6 years is nothing, really. Seeing a middle-age person with someone in their 20s though, is just plain sick.

  • This was part of what he said, but not quite. He says he did envy me and others too. But, more, he says that he was addicted to self-pity, to always looking at the glass as half-empty and leaking, to blaming everything and everyone but himself for his past not being what he wished it to be. He proclaims that he actively chose to allow this self-pity to be all consuming and his way to rationalize the irrational, to fuel and justify his feelings he was “owed,” that he was “entitled,” that he “deserved.” He based his life on selfishness and what he could take, never on what he could give.

    He claims he wants to be a man, husband and father of integrity. He tells me that he understands that to me it might be too little to late, but that he will work toward this goal regardless and would love the opportunity to be that man, not just for himself, but also for me and our kids.

    I must admit these admissions, along with other actions, have been compelling to me to want to give us a try. It has been almost three years since I found out everything. I don’t know what will happen, but we are trying.

    I do read ChumpLady as I don’t want to fool myself and I do find her wisdom refreshing and helpful to see as clearly as possible as we try to move forward.

    • TIgerLily, I hope for your sake that he manages to make these changes. But PLEASE watch what he DOES, not what he says!

      My ex says some of these same things, that he’s changed, that he wants to be a better person, that he doesn’t want to hurt anybody ever again.

      But he continues to be an arrogant jerk in many ways, continues to blame-shift onto me, continues to be selfish and entitled about the kids, and just recently acted in a very hurtful way to someone who was his closest friend for years, and who never did him any harm.

      SAYING you want to change is easy. Actually changing is hard, and takes lots of effort, persistence, self-control and taking responsibility. Not the strong points for most cheaters.

      • TigerLilly

        What he said sounds so scripted especially for a cheater. Is he reading CL too?

        • Donna, those are the foundational statements and stand from Sept. 2012 continuing on. There has been a great deal of introspection on his part that goes far deeper than that basic foundation. Still, I watch those actions as we continue on.

          Just FYI, such actions include a post-nuptial agreement with infidelity clause; an account, in my name only, for divorce fees if ever I decide on that course for any reason; a vasectomy at my request, so if we divorce the kids will not be sharing with other children; polygraphs; no longer being a coward in the face of his mother’s tirades, demands, including standing up for all of us, etc.; converting to my and our children’s religion; counseling; words and actions matching; being present in our day-to-day lives (work comes second, fitness comes third); taking charge of planning special moments for our family, for us as a couple and for me, and some pretty words, which would be absolutely meaningless without the actions, but with all of the actions, I admit they are compelling.

          • I just wanted to add something. It hasn’t been easy, it hasn’t been perfect, and it certainly is not finite.

            We are expats more often than not. He went away for a year of work, this was a year after d-day. The children and I went home for that year. I had a chance to have some time on my own, living near extended family for the first time in a very long time. It was both difficult and wonderful for me and our children. It also was beneficial in helping me see what I wanted to do.

            I finish up my Masters this Spring. We move overseas again not long after. I hope to go back to work after being a stay-at-home-Mom for years. I’m learning to build myself into who I want to be regardless of my marriage. But, I still have pain. Remorse or not, divorce or stay, there is still pain. We are trying, he’s not a unicorn, our life is not a fairly tale for damn sure, but we are moving forward. I have no illusions of blind-faith in other humans, but I am learning to have faith in me no matter what my future holds.

        • Tigerlily;I believe people can change when they see they have decimated ones they love. Go with your gut. I hope he appreciates what you have to go through to choose such a difficult course to give him another chance. I hope for you and your children many blessings ahead.

      • KarenE,

        This advice is so spot-on and something I take so very seriously, one of the many reasons why I love CL, she keeps this in the forefront of my mind, and her signs of “real remorse” have been my guiding light.

        I continue to watch actions above all else as it is the actions above words that must consistently show change for the better! So far, he has given both words and substantive actions. And, so we keep moving forward, trying. . .

    • My Charming EX-BF letter explaining why he cheated.

      Note not once did he apologize for being a total MF’er and blame everyone and thing except the kitchen sink. My friends and sister say that this is a self soothing letter and has shit all to do with me.

      ENJOY! (My comments on what really happened Inserted as C123).

      Yesterday, over the phone, at work wasn’t the best way to talk, so I wanted to give you more than I think I did yesterday. – C123 – He got busted so he had to take the call. Which he promptly hung up as soon as possible.

      You loved me, and I did not in return. – C123 – Very True. Not anymore.

      Everything else below is just an amplification of that fact, but I want to take the time to get my words and meanings out of my head and in front of you. Its easier to do this way than over the phone, and I found a few moments today to get my head clear so I could be clearer with you.
      C123 – Blah Blah Blah, he has made my mind on what excuse to use with you. Plus since I told him I would not meet him and to go to hell, he needs a way to make excuse to me to self sooth.

      Some yes and no’s first.

      Yes, I am saying I do not think we should see each other.

      No, this does not have to do with any other person. This is a choice I’ve been struggling with for a while. – C123 – Bull Shit. If the red head had not come into your life, you’d be all over me.

      Yes, I have been on a been on dates other people.

      Yes, I have been intimate with any other person since I met you.

      Yes, I like and respect you, and yes you are entirely able to disagree with me on that point.
      C123- Rightttt.This is how you treat people you respect.

      No, I do not love you.
      C123 – Well! Duh!

      Yes, this is something I’ve been struggling with.
      C123 -See above comment about Red-head.

      No, this is not as a result of anything you did, or did not do. This is an debate, and issue, internal to me.

      It has been increasingly obvious to me you did, very much, love me. In many, many ways we fit very well. But, and there is always a but in this kind of email, as you wanted more of me, I didn’t in return. If anything, the closer you wanted to be to me, the less close I wanted to be. I saw you needing and wanting more, and I saw my reaction to it and how much I did not meet your needs. At the same time, a feeling that something was wrong was plaguing me.

      Over the last few weeks that feeling got worse. It was easier not to voice it, both because it would hurt you and because I did not understand it. I wasn’t reacting to you the way I should, and I didn’t know why.
      – C123 – Blah Blah Blah…He is self justification and self soothing here in these two paragraphs

      A few random examples: You wanted time with me, a totally normal thing to want with somebody you are dating. Sometimes this was awesome, but sometimes it felt like an obligation. I didn’t post (or even take) photos of us from Sequim. We’ve been dating for years and when my parents come to town I did not invite you over.
      C123 – Sequim was because I now know was all about waiting for the red-head to make up her mind about him and him string me along. As for the parents, they showed up unexpected so he really had no time to think about it.

      None of that is right. I realized that if I didn’t start listening to that little voice I was in mortal danger of doing three things I swore to myself not to do:

      1. I was in a relationship with the wrong woman for a decade because I failed to listen to my inner voice and feelings, and instead did what I chose instead of what I felt. I swore to myself I would never do that again, and here I was starting to do it again.

      2. My ex was that unavailable, retreating, sometimes available sometimes not person that I was being, and I swore to myself I would never ever become my ex.

      3. I was not meeting your needs, and I was not being very clear on why and where I was, and so was being cruel to somebody I respect. You deserve a relationship with someone who fully returns the love, attraction, and trust you give them, and I wasn’t doing it, and I know how much that hurts.
      C123 – Blame shifting to the EX-WIFE at it best. She would have been available if you had not cheated on her and HELL yes, I deserve better than you.
      C123 – The rest below is more smoke and mirror to make himself feel better.. Whatever…

      I’ve been, obviously, getting a lot more busy and stressed at work with the new job. You’ve seen it, and you reached out to me to see me and care for me because that’s what a person who cares for another person does. Me? I retreated instead of accepting your caring. That isn’t right. A symptom of a right relationship is when hurt or stressed or scared one partner reaches out to the other and by doing so gives calm and energy and solace, not how I was feeling despite what you were doing.

      So that’s where I was when you called yesterday. Knowing it wasn’t right, I wasn’t right with myself or you, which means we were not right. I know from hard experience if you are not right, it is must easier (and far worse) to stay not right that do the right thing and change your relationship. I know from being on the other side of this that it hurts, and I really don’t like or want to hurt you but I believe a greater hurt is not to stop this.

      I apologize for the call yesterday, I was hoping to see you for lunch and talk to you instead of having a phone conversation, but when you asked I wasn’t going to lie to you.
      C123 -Again got busted so no time for the so called lunch conversation.

      I hope this gives you more insight into what is happening, where I am, and why. I hope this, at least after a while, hurts less than just leaving it where it was yesterday.
      C123 -Yep, Insight is what I needed. Not an apology or respect or kindness. What an asshole.

        • …Knowing it wasn’t right, I wasn’t right with myself or you, which means we were not right. I know from hard experience if you are not right, it is must easier (and far worse) to stay not right that do the right thing and change your relationship. …


          • LOL PearShaped. That sentence (like thoughts of him now) makes my head hurt. Right? 😉

        • I TOTALLY agree with your assessment Not Juliet. He is BAT CRAP CRAZY INSANE…
          You should have seen the first letter her ever sent me. It was like reading WAR and PEACE. Went on and on and on about what he wants in a relationship. In hind sight I should have cut and run then and there but I was friends with him for years prior to our relationship so I was already in love with him. Oh well! Live and learn.
          He went on to marry the red-head and buy a house with her. All things he swore he would never do again to me and his friend but lo and behold.
          I and truly honestly glad that he is now her problem not mine.

          I do feel so bad for the folks who post here. I went gut wrenching pain at the time of the cheating and we’d had only been DATING for a few years. I can’t imagine being married for decades. It must be brutal. HUGS to everyone out there. WE are so much better than these losers.

          • Wow! no wonder your confused 123, that confused the f*ck out of me too. My ass wipe did that kind of stuff to me during my quest to get truth, a few times I told him he should get into politics. Spin…….spin……spin. No Loss except for OUR sanity if we stayed.

          • Confused123 – please, for the love of all that is good in this world, drop that asshat! The ONLY thing I can discern from that train wreck of a letter is that he has no idea what he wants or how to deal with conflict. Otherwise… he made my head hurt!!! 🙂

      • Reading this letter gave me a headache. It does not make sense. Do you guys use the word “dating” when you’ve lived with someone for a decade ??? It sounds totally inappropriate.

      • Trying to wade through that word salad bullshit, it says one moment that he doesn’t want to see you or talk to you, yet hes doing precisely that. In short, hes a lying piece of shit and has no clue what he wants. Best place is out of the life of a deceptive fuckwit like that.

  • X was a perfectionist. He thought HE was perfect. Sorry I didn’t see it. He couldn’t hold a conversation, was always high, complained, never read a book in 41 years, wet the bed, has a pencil dick, and cheats. Perhaps all that shit made him insecure. Lol

  • I got a version of this with some flourishes and furbiloes.

    He knew he was lacking — but the OW makes him want to be a better person!

    (He didn’t feel that with me, so the children and I got shitty him!)

    Over the months, my perfection has helped explain my sub-human treatment:

    He wasn’t a more involved parent because I did everything and therefore didn’t let him.

    He treated me like a cook and maid because he couldn’t do those things as well and he was sure I wouldn’t be happy with how he did

    He acted like a dead starfish in bed because I didn’t tell him exactly what I wanted like the OW does!

    Of course the fact that I asked and asked and asked for these things, with great specificity and persistence for years only to have my requests ignored or rebuffed is conveniently forgotten. When I would ask for anything he would get annoyed, isn’t it shocking I stopped asking?

    But yeah — I am too wonderful. And he and OW are soul mates in crappy behavior and dearth of integrity. Something I can agree with.

  • I will not miss being relegated to the mother role especially in the last few years, while Ex gets to lead a secret double MOW whore life. Spackle Man always told me I was great, but was increasingly less demonstrative, but was still my partner until I found out he was always a liar. –The “you are so great” WAS his Spackle cover up while leading a double life… You think you’ve built a life with someone over time, but why I accepted ‘less-than’ is just something I need to unravel with the blinders off. Ugh.

    The whole you are perfect, so good, thing is the Madonna Spackle complex- I was the one he brought home to the parents… who are much older. – Burns me up. – Especially when you have built a life and have become close with family. Getting through this first year of no holidays, birthdays, frequent lunches at the retirement village with them has left me so sad. – Since Mr. High Maintenance has taken his whirlwind life with him, I am free, but also feeling the loss of more than my relationship… for sure.

    • Chump4, you just made me remember something else soon X said to me, many times too! “If you were a fly on the wall and heard how I bragged to my friends about you and how I felt I was so lucky to have a wife like you”. Then he would say “just ask them”. It was weird, and I can’t remember why he would tell me that? I think it was during a gaslight number he was doing on me. One moment I was good he’d say, then next I was awful. I was going crazy, hence I had to leave or end up in a rubber room eventually. UGH

      • You know in retrospect there were a couple of overly effusive guy friends of his who were a little over the top singing my praises about how much he loved me… -Always made me feel weird like well that’s too much information. My Ex has his own business – and a regular group of friends “the coffee klatch”. I think some friends from the Spackle, cover-up, mop-up boys club knew what the deal was long before I did.

        And yes crazy making because when D-Day happened I found out his best friend had known all along – he and his wife (she did not know) from out of state would stay with us often when they were dealing with an aging parent. -So freaking humiliating. -Stay at my house, accept my hospitality, and friendship and support, and embrace the MOW too, . I mean it is one thing to confide in a friend about troubles in a marriage, needing to break up, needing advice, but to carry on like this? .

        All this made me wonder if Everyone (his circle) knew except me. And I had to just let go – and make the cleanest, swiftest break – or go totally crazy…

        • I hear you, I felt like such a fool, his friends knew and helped him get dates!! I drafted letters to all those assholes….but I deleted them. I really don’t care to associate with any of his friends and I know half of them are totally fooled by his BS. (I read one email reply where his friend was under the assumption that I left him because I was marrying someone else.) OMG what a lying POS. I dont know if I will ever be able to trust anyone after the life of lies!!

        • Chump4Bolero – mine wanted me to wake him up in the morning with a BJ – then, of course go make the coffee, make the lunches, get the kids ready for school, get myself ready for work, do the dishes , get the kids on the bus, go to work the whole day, come home, make supper, clean up, do the dishes again, do some laundry and then end such a lovely day with more sex. Oh so romantic and such an emotional connections eh? He said it was like a chore to me…. duhhhhhhh…

  • Actually, heard a version of this the first time I was chumped. He explained that the OW was in such a bad place, and he needed to teach her all the stuff I had showed him. Luckily for me, he was smitten and wanted out. He didn’t want to stay IN our marriage because he had so much of the goodness FROM our marriage to share.

  • In the final analysis, do I really want or need a person who clearly has no ability to do ANY self reflection?
    Do I really need a person in my life who answers every tough question with, “I don’t know.”?
    Do I really need to put the rest of my life into the hands of a person who, in hindsight, cared so little for my needs?
    Do I really need a person who is so mentally confused and “morally flexible” to put it gently?
    Well, you get the idea. No regrets! He’s gone, I’m content with my decision!

    • You nailed it, Roberta. If I had a nickel for every for every “I don’t know” I got, I could retire. I, too, have no regrets. Who wants to be with a coward and loser who has zero self control and moral values?

      • Exactly! I don’t have anytime for some totally selfish, immature, unhappy to the very core individuals! I’ll spend my time creating a life I can be proud of with people I truly trust and love! These cheaters are a time suck I don’t have the energy to waste on! They will never change. They are stuck forever in the nightmare lives they create for themselves! I wish them luck, but not much else!

        • Your “hungry hyenas” comment above really struck a chord with me. Boy, do I feel like my flesh has been torn open.

  • Tragically but not unexpectedly, my ex’s brother suicided not long after our separation (long time coming, had nothing to do with our situation though he despised my ex for being such a loser–and this from a multiply addicted alcoholic, with virtually every word out of his mouth being a lie or part of a con!) Our poor daughter had to attend services at age 13 and per her report, basically acted like the only support for the brother’s ex-wife, as no one in the family would speak with her (match made in heaven: they met in rehab#8 or so for both of them. Twu Wuv prevails)
    BTW: my former MIL lost a Dad, a sister, and a child to suicide-and that’s only so far. Not to be cruel, but I expect more in the next few years, and I say this based on professional knowledge. Ex-MIL was also chumped for most of her life by ex-FIL who had to have a certain BAC by 8 AM or he’d start shaking and quaking, and once in ex-MIL’s presence he waxed poetic and pointless about the ‘happiest years of his life’ when he was off doing the OW secretary type–straight out of MadMen leaving 5 kids and a few farm animals at home. Former MIL can put on the happiest Chumpface of anyone I know. I know, I imitated it for longer than I choose to think of.
    Anyhow, rather than attending a rather gruesome Memorial service where I’d feel less than welcome (the death certificate was actually circulated at the luncheon to ‘prove’ that dude died of heart failure, not suicide–WTF? everybody dies of heart failure) I sent a large and lovely gardenia in full bloom, writing on the card something to the effect that ex’s brother would live on in our hearts forever, I knew ex MIL was knocked over by immediate family suicide #3. So far.
    STBX called immediately, stating first that he was amazed that I ‘always knew the right thing to do’ and then believe it or not, ‘could I spend a little time’ with his little OW who was rapidly advancing in her administrative academic career under his mentorship.
    Exhole actually thought I might teach this woman some etiquette….like WTF?
    After LMFHO I stated that etiquette and manners were simply absorbed from a very young age, and I had little if any hope for his HOworker, but perhaps he could purchase her a copy of Emily Post?

    • Oh wow. That family has some serious issues… I admire your composed reply about the etiquette and manners tutorial.

    • Isn’t it amazing how little Cheaters have a clue about the immense pain they caused you? They just don’t get it because they don’t feel that much.

  • The Second Lady, your name seems appropriate. Sending a sympathy card and flower arrangement to the family seems genuinely gracious and shows your grace. Everyone on this CN site seem to have these attributes. So how in the Hell do we end up with partners who could rival barnyard animals when it comes to manners and good breeding? We sure provided good cover for these Asshats didn’t we?

    • “who could rival barnyard animals when it comes to manners and good breeding”…

      Spit my evening cocktail out on that one…ha ha ha ha ha

  • you get angry because you aren’t being flattered – you’re being lied to. in a very pathetic and childish way.

  • The night of 1,000 horrors, when I found out he’d been cheating for 5 months and was leaving me for the stripper who might be pregnant with his baby, I said ‘What did I do to deserve this? Haven’t I been a good wife?’ (yes, I know. If I could hop in my time machine and go slap the sh*t out of that version of me, I would). He said ‘You did NOTHING wrong. You were a great wife. I have something broken inside of me. I can’t deal with confrontation.’ This was not news to me. After asking nicely for the 412th time if he could pick his wet towel up off the floor and hang it to dry with him responding ‘Yep, I guess I’m just a terrible husband!’, I knew long ago that he was incapable of functional adult conversations, expectations or responsibilities.

    Arrested development at the age of 12? Yes, that DOES make for a terrible husband. Of course, I only see that now in hindsight. At the time, shlepping the wet towel onto the bar for him in silence instead was just ‘an act of service in marriage that I did because I loved my husband’. Anyone have an extra large trowel for the sh*t-ton of spackle I was caking on?

    But hey, I did NOTHING wrong and was a GREAT wife. Well, thanks, ass-hat. But it sure feels like my reward for ‘great wife’ status is rather backwards. A struggling single mom of two with total emotional evisceration and financial devastation isn’t quite the reward I had in mind for my 14 years of greatness. Yet, he’s off on some shiny new romantic adventure with someone who doesn’t have spitup in their hair and whose eye doesn’t twitch because they’re doing all the work that comes with 2 babies in diapers, alone, 24/7.

    Fast forward a year. We are divorced. He abandoned me and our (then) 1 & 2 year old babies and moved 2,000 miles away. I can’t go NC because of the kids, but we don’t talk or co-parent, because he’s shown no interest (I just mount the camera when he Skype’s the kids). But I had to call him on the phone one day because he’d stopped paying support and I wanted to find out what my next step was going to have to be. We got around to the subject of his complete lack of involvement in the lives of his kids, and I said ‘I don’t have an available co-parent in any way. You’re physically gone, you’re emotionally checked out, and if something happens with them it’s not like I can even call you because your problem with confrontation makes you incapable of any kind of legitimate parenting.’ To this, he responded ‘I’ve fixed my problem with confrontation. It’s taken a long time, but I’ve handled that.’ The way he said it was as nonchalantly as if he’d said he’d had some eczema, and just popped down to the corner drug and gotten something for it.

    Amazing! A complete reversal of a crippling life-long emotional disorder…and all for the low, low price of the complete destruction of 3 people’s lives! He’s so delusional, it’s frightening. Happy (now) that he’s gone, but not happy my kids will pay such a dear price. These disordered manipulators will compliment you while the knife is going slowly in between your shoulder blades, and they’ll look you right in the eye and tell you it’s a massage. And the worst thing is, they’ll BELIEVE it.

    • Truly eloquent, hissecrettreason. I’d like to go back and slap the old version of me a few times too! Anyway, you are awesome to be caring for two small children by yourself.

    • hissecretreason – I second Lyn, – there is something so wrong about a man, a parent moving 2,000 miles away abandoning a wife and mother, and his two infant children. Wow, that is just off the deep end. I know it happens but it is no less shocking to hear it. May you be blessed with continued strength.

      • hissecretreason.

        Yuck. It almost seems like kibble to make sure these calls happen. He choose to leave. Has he seen his kids lately in person. Are you required to make these calls happen? Not that their relationship with him (in theory) isn’t important, but really. They are very young.

        Did he start paying support again? (Can you have it withheld from his paycheck?) I hope that you are able to hold him accountable for that BS.

    • HSTreason; What a sad commentary. It seems a recurring theme that the Chumps are the ones that was The Captain of the ship, did more than their share, made the Cheater look good in the community, covered up their childishness, etc. Maybe I catch on late, but I guess by doing so we were contributing unknowingly to their vision of self grandiosity. Because we kept putting up with it, they must be worth it. Because we kept spackling, they must be a structure worthy of constant sugar coating & imageprotecting. I can see in retrospect how it would have this effect, and how maybe they would think there is a line forming to the right to take on their care & feeding.
      Also, why they would think we don’t “need” them, and find someone who does. (another recurring theme)
      Not that we should care, but perhaps unevenness in a relationship should be a red flag along with many others.
      Your guy is a horror. I am without words for a pregnant stripper. Just Yuck.

  • All of my good qualities got hurled at me like they were character defects ‘ you have such high standards, i could never live up to your standards’ and ‘ you are always talking to,people and helping them! ‘ … Shit like that over and over again!! ‘ you are way too smart! ‘ ‘ you dont ever speed’
    At first I was very hurt and defended myself… Then the fucking light bulb came on! He had nothing to complain about mother fucker! He was trying to make some reason to justify his shit behavior. He had to tryand pin something on me… There had to be a reason he fucked up. I had to domsomething to drive him to screw around.
    Yup , I sure do have high standards…. As someone said yesterday… ‘ I set the bar Bitch! ‘

    • TheClip, our cheaters have read from the same book because I got the exact same speech about having standards that were too high. I was puzzled way back then but now I see that he was already planning my exit long before he uttered those words. By the way, my standards have never changed from the 1st day he met me when I was 18 years of age. My high standards were one of the things that attracted him to me besides my good looks and gorgeous figure!!

      • I swear to you…. They pick someone who they know will represent them well. We are the facade. The shit that makes them appear normal. They get that we are the front man and we have to make them look good…. of course they pick well. These individuals thrive on appearances. We bear their children, organize their homes and finances… We are the glue that holds it all together and we dont fail them. They pick well. And likewise they pick their cheating partner well… Someone they can manipulate into believeing the other story… The sad sausage story. Its the hook.
        The stories on CL are eerily similar… Cut from the same cloth. Patterns that are parallel. Its disturbing and yet fascinating to me. Much like serial killers and like psychopaths… There is a common thread that runs thru them all.

        • They call it the Dark Tetrad-narcissism, sociopathy and BPD. Never be,eived in evil, really, until DDay.

            • Yep. Scary stuff, but comforting, in that you know it is not you. Narcs don’t have families, they have hostages.

        • TheClip

          This is it exactly. His family served as a facade of normalcy. My children were shocked at the “changes” when he entered his new life. Gone was the laughing caring dad they thought they knew and loved. His disregard, lies, and entitlement are finally visible. When my daughter mentioned her dad the other day in conversation I thought about the pre and post DDay dad. They are clearly the same person. OW accepted and encouraged his rage, selfishness, and cheating as he blamed his actions on me. He’s always angry, never smiles and looks totally different. I was a prop for 41 years. He really hid behind the mask. There’s no doubt in my mind he misses what I provided.

          I know it’s tempting for chumps to take them back after an affair. It’s because they miss using you and your children as props. It’s not about remorse. It’s about supply and the THRILL of cheating. Don’t fall for it. Face the pain rather than torture yourself living with a cheater. It gets better.

        • “I swear to you…. They pick someone who they know will represent them well. We are the facade. The shit that makes them appear normal. They get that we are the front man and we have to make them look good…. of course they pick well. These individuals thrive on appearances. ”

          Wow ! How right you are !!

  • I just remember him saying he didn’t want to separate bc I’d find somebody better than him.

    • In his post-D-day explanatory letter that explained nothing, he said “I know you can easily find someone much better than me”. But in the torn letter I found while cleaning his suitcase, he wrote to his rival: “You are much better than me”, while at the same time telling me that the guy OW dumped him for, was quite a trade-down: ugly, old, with a low-class job. This is so confusing.
      By the way, he found an excuse to come to my place briefly this coming weekend. Every weekend there is a reason to visit my home. Why does he do that, I don’t know.

      • Pretend you’re not home, and if he has access, change the locks. You don’t need to put up with his garbage.

  • I was told – “I couldn’t live up to your high standards”.
    I asked if he thought that; picking up his own dirty laundry, taking his coffee cups to the kitchen, taking the dogs for a walk etc etc.were standards that were too high for him?
    and “she (schnoopie) accepts me as I am” – I said that, seeing as she was a cheat herself, she really couldn’t accept anything more than the same low-level behaviour.
    He had no answer to that !

  • Narcs are the kind that if a plane they were on crashed in the Andes or some other desolate scene, they would just happen to have skewers, charcoal and barbeque sauce in their carry on luggage!

  • As always, you are spot on Chump Lady! My narc philandering ex loved the excuse of low self-esteem to blame shift. Oh, how she would lament that she is just BROKEN and there is something wrong with her, and we never spend intimate time together anymore. Yeah, no shit. While I was working in the garden or the kitchen, she was spending her time on Tinder, and getting losers to send her pictures of their junk. She just needed a chance to ‘find herself’. Apparently that means finding another assclown to f*ck the day after our anniversary. And then not coming home until 3AM, blatantly lying to your loving spouse, and acting like she had absolutely no control over the situation. Just couldn’t help herself; after all, I am just SO AMAZING that she felt she wasn’t good enough for me!!! So she made it a reality. Wow… not drinking THAT koolade anymore.

    • Spot on!! I am sick and tired of the “I am broken, something is wrong with me.” Oh so screwing around fixes things? BS…I agree with CLs philosophy its all about cake and going out for even more sweets! It is all BS. If i would have never busted my stbx (ugh over and over) all would fine. I am certain if I had never found out – he would still be feeling like the king of the world. Wifey to take care of everything, and brag about what a great family he has and a bunch of sluts on the side!

      Thanks chumps for keeping me pissed…I have never been so motivated to kick my poor pitiful chump ways and get on the road to Meh!!

  • Dammit, see…I miss a week or so and come back and see gems like this.

    Well, I’m late to the party but this UBT pretty my sums up my cheaters excuse (although he never admitted to an affair or any inappropriate behavior whatsoever) for falling out of love with me and wanting out of the marriage; I’m just too perfect. Apparently I never make mistakes and my morals and iron clad and I’m really freakin dependable & devoted and my high level of character made me expect too much from my husband in return. My expectations are just too high.
    Now don’t get it twisted, he wasn’t humbling himself by saying I was above him, nooooo….never. He was merely claiming that my NO ONE, literally no living person could EVER live up to my standards. BUT, wait for it, plot twist: HE DESERVES BETTER. Sooooo wtf does that mean? I’m too perfect but you deserve BETTER than perfect? How puzzling.
    Don’t you mean you deserve different? Specifically different, like a naive ugly duckling in her early 20’s with loads of money to blow, few responsibilities and stars in her eyes for the battered victim of a man that she *thinks* she’s getting?

    Just call it what it is: Bullshit.

    The truth would be to say that you’re morality isn’t up to par and it never will be so its time to rip the mask off, show your hideous ego and set me free.

    • That poor man, stuck with such a perfect partner… I think we can safely say that by ‘deserving better’, he means a better fit for his own shoddy, narcissistic ego.

      You deserve so much better than a WS that plays the victim, because you are obviously MUCH too good for him. Your expectations are 100% reasonable to any conscientious, non-personality disordered person!

      Calling that BS every time (even just internally to yourself) WILL set you free and move you towards MEH. There are plenty of us reformed chumps out there that have nothing but admiration, appreciation and affection for someone of your character!!!