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Worst Infidelity Advice?



Worst infidelity advice ever? Don’t decide anything for six months to a year.

If I could wave my magic chump wand and eradicate one bit of post-infidelity stupid that would be it.

Can you think of any other betrayal in which someone would give such dunderheaded advice? Business partner is caught embezzling? Hey, take some time and think about it. Don’t be hasty. Maybe you still want to stay business partners, so why embarrass him by cutting off his company credit cards. He said he was sorry and wants to work on it. What’s all this ugly talk of money? Don’t be one of those cold, bitter people who can’t forgive. Just wait it out. I don’t believe “once an embezzler always an embezzler!” People change. Think of all the years you spent together making widgets. Are you going to let some stolen $73,000 get in the way of everything you built together?

Was your scout leader molesting you? Okay, that was wrong. But you’re 11 merit badges away from Eagle scout! Just see it through and don’t be a quitter. The important thing is to stay positive! Maybe you won’t feel so violated in six months. Police reports can wait.

Oh, I’m exaggerating. Extramarital affairs are nothing whatsoever like embezzlement and sexual abuse. Those things are criminal and infidelity just happens when two splendid people succumb to forces larger than them both.

Did your partner steal marital resources to have an affair(s) or pay for sex workers? Did your partner plot and scheme behind your back? Did your partner promise their affair partner they’d be dumping you soon? Did your partner eat cake and waste years of your precious life? Did your partner risk your health by having unprotected sex with the affair partner(s)?

To any new chumps out there reading this — PROTECT YOURSELF. Affairs are crises. Act like it.

Whatever you decide to do, divorce, reconcile, or yes, even stay in soul-sucking limbo — PROTECT YOURSELF. The dumbest thing you can do post-discovery is act like your situation is static and you’ve got forever to decide. You don’t. Let me bitchslap some sense into you.

Why is Waiting to Decide Things dreadful advice?

1.) It assumes that your cheater is going to immediately straighten up and fly right. This is unicorn thinking. Oh, they were discovered. They’re so “sorry.” They’re not divorcing you right now, so there’s hope! (No, see the Unified Theory of Cake.) They’re immediately going to discover a newfound appreciation for you and monogamy.

This thinking is dangerous. It comes from a place of “Oh, They Would Never.”

They would never move money or hide marital funds.

They would never see a lawyer first.

They would never poison the children against you.

They would never put the narrative out there first that you’re crazy.

They would never leave you for the affair partner (and go to marriage counseling to throw you off).

They sure as hell would and may be already. People who will fuck you over  with an affair generally have no compunction to fuck you over a multitude of other ways, especially financially. You’re dealing with entitled uber-beings who’ve demonstrated that the rules don’t apply to them. People who have already lied to you quite easily. You really want to take their word for it?

Why don’t you consider a post-nup and a credit report? You know, just as collateral on that sorry.

Your cheater balks at that? There’s your sorry. Don’t waste your time. File. 

2.) You could legally fuck yourself. An affair has been discovered. If you have ANY hope of using this shit in a divorce, NOW is the time to act. If you wait and then you try to use your evidence later, do you really think a judge is going to care that you tried to reconcile? No. You make a squawk about infidelity a year or two after the fact, the judge will think, why should I care when YOU forgave this person? There are even legal consequences for this in some states. If you sleep with your spouse after discovery, it’s legally considered forgiving the affair.

Who do you think this “wait 6 months to a year” advice benefits? You or the cheater?

You want to reconcile? You’re not sure about divorce right now? You get that post-nup.

Your cheater balks at that? There’s your sorry. Don’t waste your time. File. 

3.) It minimizes the abusive, parasitic nature of infidelity. Could you tolerate someone physically abusing you or stealing your money? No? But sharing a marital home with someone who is emotionally abusing you and disrespecting you is sustainable?

Everyone here knows what a powerful sucker punch betrayal is. It can give the most stalwart person PTSD and suicidal thoughts. And the common advice given is STAY WITH THAT?

Even with the rare remorseful spouse the days after D-day are so very hard. Now, imagine the far more common scenario in which the person isn’t one bit remorseful. No, they’re pissed off that they’ve been discovered. They ramp up the blameshifting and the gaslighting. STAY WITH THAT?

“Don’t make any decisions right away” minimizes the affair. Why would you impose consequences on a “meaningless fling” or a “one-night stand” or a “mid-life crisis”? People who act swiftly are people who recognize danger. Your situation is meaningless! You’re just overreacting!

“Stay” is just another directive to eat the shit sandwich.

Did this person take marital resources to conduct their affair? Did they make unilateral decisions about the safety and security of your family? You’re going to TRUST this person right now to do right by you? Seriously?

No, you separate the goddamn money with a separation agreement and you put a support order in place. You ask for that credit report and find out where the debts and the bank accounts and the PO boxes are.

Your cheater balks that? There’s your sorry. Don’t waste your time. File. 

4.) It rewards paralysis and fear and makes them seem ennobling and not chicken shit. The whole “wait” advice is a crock because it feeds your hopium addiction and allows you to feel good about your gutlessness. No, I’m not avoiding a painful crisis — cooler heads are prevailing! I’m not being hasty, I’m being prudent!


Worse than making paralysis okay, it gives you permission to lie inert and lick your wounds. I’m very frightened now, I’m so afraid of what next. 

Suck it up, Buttercup. Your house is on fire. (And there’s a bear trap/hungry alligator/manure lagoon/mushroom cloud).

Being afraid is not an excuse to keep staying afraid. Step up. This is a crisis. You’re afraid? So was Every. Single. Person. who walked this path before you. Being afraid doesn’t make you special or different. It makes you a run-of-the-mill chump. Fear has you by the shirt-tails? Wrestle that motherfucker to the ground.

Do not react to infidelity with passivity. And don’t trying pawning off your codependency as activity. You know, the whole Amazon chump, untangling the skein, helping them with THEIR crises. I’m sure that shit keeps you very busy. No, what are you doing for YOU? Whatever you decide, stay or go, PROTECT YOURSELF. See a lawyer, get real about the money, the kids, the living arrangements, your deal breakers, your boundaries, the tangibles of remorse.

Your cheater balks that? There’s your sorry. Don’t waste your time. File. 

What’s your precious life worth? They already stole from you. Don’t give them another six to twelve months.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • I think some advice is even worse…the wait AND win him/her back sort of advice. It”s the “You need to fight for your marriage” crap. It is as if these counselors/pastors think this is what CAUSED the infidelity in the first place (i.e. some sort of failure on the chump’s part)…which is a sure-fire indication that they are clueless about infidelity causation. The causes are not external to the cheater but internal.

    Absolutely, PROTECT YOURSELF! Cheaters have declared their lack of character by their actions. People who lack character do immoral and shady things. So, the wise person protects himself/herself from such wickedness.

    • The 180 advice. Absolute worst advice I’ve ever read.

      Someone has just gored you. ACT HAPPY AND UNCONCERNED!!!!

      • Yes, I think that is psychologically damaging advice. You’re emotionally devastated and supposed to act light-hearted and like everything is hunky dory? I can’t believe that psychologists actually give this advice.

        • I was never ever able to even begin to do the 180. I just can’t be that fake, it’s impossible. But if was ashamed on SI for saying so.

      • “Fear has you by the shirt-tails? Wrestle that motherfucker to the ground.” -CL

        I WISH so badly that I had found Chump Nation earlier. I learned the hard way that I needed to wrestle my fear to the ground, but only after being patient for 8 months (time I should have been legally acting and caring for myself) waiting for an abandoning d-bag to “wake up from the affair fog.” BS!! It’s all BS.

        Tracy says don’t listen to a damn thing they say, but instead only pay attention to their actions during and after DDay; that’s how you know what you need to do.

        I SOOoooOOO wish I had known to file sooner, and had not been paralyzed by fear.

        • Me too. I even hung in way longer than that – ughh ughh ughh !!!
          I wish someone would have slapped some sense in me. I remember coming across Tracy’s CL website and I was unable to process it, I was busby following stupid reconciliation BS advice that is all over the place. I missed valuable opportunities to leave that selfish asshole. I just now feel like I am walking up from this “Hirngespinnst” My new Mantra is definitely now: “Trust that they SUCK”

      • “Love will always act in the best interest of another. It is not self-seeking; rather it is others centered. It’s been said Love is the benefit of another, at the expense of self. Lust is the benefit of self, at the expense of another.”

        How true is that? You can’t hurt, cheat, deceive someone you truly love, for weeks, months and even years, that’s just impossible.. These cheaters only love themselves and what benefits them and I don’t believe one nanosecond they are sorry that they cheated, they are ONLY sorry because they got caught, It’s that simple.. The person who supposed to watch your back stabbed you in the back, without a blink. They lied to you for weeks, months, even years and you are supposed to believe the promises of this very person who betrayed you repeatedly, lied to you? How could you ever take their word for anything again? Didn’t they also promised to be faithful? Their words are just words, let their actions speak for the real truth… Protect yourself in any and every way, because this person proved to you with their actions that they cannot be trusted. Like Tracy said, protect yourself financially, but instead of postnup get a property settlement without dissolution of marriage, which outlays who gets what, the custody, the house, money, pensions, that 401k. Forget about postnup, you might get in the hole for vast amounts of money to get it upheld and postnup can be challenged and it could take months or much more to enforce it, however “a property settlement without dissolution of marriage” is enforceable, from day one, because its signed by a judge, just like the divorce degree but without the divorce, so if they fuck up again? well this way, no need to fight in court, or spend thousands on lawyers, it’s a legal document and can’t be challenged, it will be swift and done and it will be word by word in the divorce degree so there is nothing a cheater can do. This protects the chumps 1000%! Protect yourself from a proven lying cheat, so you can sleep better at night, knowing your ducks are already in a row….

        PS: I did post this some time ago, but for our new members this is worth repeating and as usual another great post Tracy!

        • Great advice-so true that pre nups and I am quite sure post nups are challenged all the time.

        • Thank you for the comment, nicolette14 and this fantastic, reassuring blog post!! My soon-to-be-ex starting on his cake eating journey about four months ago. In late February, he started a new job where became friendly with a particular co-worker in March and by early April started acting insane. Stupidly, I figured it was work stress but got suspicious after numerous inconsistencies. Someone who was usually truthful, starts being vague. Something is up! When I confronted him about inappropriate text messages I found on his phone, he insisted that I was asking him to “give up his whole life” by setting appropirate boundaries. Call me demanding, but I don’t think married men should let a virtual stranger call them “baby” and say “I love you” back and forth via secret texts. Shortly after that, I moved out. offering a month of space which he passively accepted. In early June I discovered he was sleeping over her house while still keeping up the “we’re just friends” b/s and when I confronted him about that, he said “I can’t expect you to wait for me any longer”. My reply? I’m filing for divorce and he fained shock. We’ll be legally divorced in mid September only weeks after our 9th wedding anniversary. I wasn’t nasty and vindictive; the settlement was more than fair even though he was horrible and acusatory throught the whole thing. When I started to tell friends and family what’s happened, their reaction was “so soon?” “are you sure?”. Naturally, the self doubt started creeping in and you wonder if you’re being rash. I actually felt a little guilty as maybe this was what they meant in “good times and bad..”? Maybe he had a mental breakdown or was sick? Up until the settlement agreement was signed, he was a monster. After that, he was “sorry this happened” and “wishes me all the best” and that “this is for the best”. No real offers to discuss the demise or be honest with me about what happened. There’s been passing comments, but nothing concrete. He blocked me on Facebook and pretended he didn’t know about it. I have a thousand examples of this kind of passive agressive behavior. Any time I had to contact him about something that benefited him, he showed gratitude. Any time I asked him for something such as to talk about “it”, all I received was silence and “when this is over I’m going to write you a really long email to explain everything”. Really? It wasn’t until a friend asked me – “has he asked you what you needed or now he can help you through this?” and it clicked. No, he hasn’t and that’s because he doesn’t care. Not because he isn’t capable, he’s chosing not to. Realizing that he’s making a moment by moment choice is the key. He’d often say things that a caring person should, but his behavior didn’t marry the sentiment. The hope inside had me clinging to the crumbs of kindness that were purely self serving. At one point, he admitted: “I had to be mean to you, to make sure you’d stay away” That was another mini-walk up call. What am I sharing this? Be brave and jump anyways. At one point when I was still at home, he said when I confronted him about a receipt he left crumpled on our dresser “don’t force me into making a decision I’m going to regret”.as I was packing my things. I left all of my belongings packed in our apartment for two days before I moved out. In the end, his words were wise. Instead, I took the decision out of his hands. When I finally took action, I was sad, but also relieved. He no longer controlled me or my future. I was being proactive and setting the record straight about my self worth.Do what’s right by you first and foremost. Take the time you need or don’t take any time at all. Do what feels right. That’s what he’s doing so take his lead!

          • SarBear, love your poem. Just goes to shows 25 years ago you gave no fucks so why would you want to compromise yourself and your character now.

            Bluebird89, you kick ass!!

            nicolette14, thanks for re-posting for the benefit of new chumps. Couldn’t agree more.

            Such inspirational mightiness in CN.

    • So true DM. I got that advice from several churchy types, including our hideous marriage counselor. Screw that!!! Protect yourself is the only practical answser.

    • Oh yah, you mean like “Fireproof”?

      Lot of poor Christian folk being lead into the grinding mill with that advice.

      • That’s the movie my ex claimed made him want to reconcile. He said he didn’t want to be like the doctor in the movie. In reality, he just wanted me to work full time and support his crazy ass while he did whatever he wanted to do, including continuing to cheat.

      • Well I think you’re exactly right. I was led into that grinder. I was told that if I defied my husband and left that I was the one pulling the trigger of divorce. My entire church abandoned me and when I first told them that my now ex husband had an affair, they told me not to talk about it and handed me a card of a marriage counselor. I felt doubly betrayed. I had to learn with the help of my own counselor that gods plan for my life is not to be abused by the person who promised to protect me. Also, my ex was the music pastor for our church, he disappeared from the church after 3 years of serving every Sunday. They pretended like he never existed. I have been working on being double betrayed. I just started going to a new church after an entire year of trying to heal. I guess I just have a hard time listening to that fight for your marriage, because truth is, if your spouse has sex with another person, they’ve already made a decision that makes that covenant null and void.

        • What is it with Music Pastors?? When I was a kid, back in the 80s.. we went to a church and they had this really dandy music director.. Mr. Hollywood. He had a sweet wife and three little precious kids. Turns out, he was banging multiple women in the church. When it came to light it was a FULL ON scandal.. he disappeared overnight. Presumably the sweet wife and kids with him although I sure hope his wife got the support she needed, and found it within herself to leave the son of a bitch. Everyone just pretended he never existed, not sure what become of the women he seduced.

          Disgusting. And you were RIGHT Brittney to leave. Don’t EVER let someone tell you otherwise. God doesn’t want us to be abused or taken advantage of. I went to this DivorceCare group a while and there was this girl in there, younger than me maybe early 30s, no kids, and she is “standing” for her marriage. The christian term “standing” basically means you put up with the cheater’s behavior in the hopes you can love them back to you. It NEVER works, if the cheater comes back, it’s only because he/she needs more kibbles and you are an easy dispenser. You don’t really “solve” anything, you just keep catering to the cheater and his/her whims. I feel for this poor woman. She has no kids, no reason to stay married to this jackass who has left her alone, not living with her, screwing other people, hurting her financially. This group is sort of pro “reconciliation” and “biblical marriage”.. I wanted to tell that poor girl to run and serve that ass with papers. But the advice she is getting there isn’t that practical. I think about her a lot. Some of these groups do a huge disservice steering people towards putting up with abuse.

          • There’s a website/blog out there all about the ‘standing’ thing. The woman who writes it advocates seeing the cheater through their ‘crisis’ and giving them space, but being firm. She tells her story about how she and her husband went through a lot of ups and downs and how he went back and forth between her and the OW. He left and moved in with OW 3 times over what turned out to be a total of almost 5 years. Now they’re together and she’s oh so happy. So basically you ‘stand’ there while he has a whole other life and comes back for cake from his wife and kids occasionally until he’s had his fill of OW and decides to come home? And your’re supposed to be delighted at having won the default to me dance? I think it’s all about the cheater standing on your heart and self esteem until they’re both broken beyond repair. I’ve never commented on her blog because I don’t want to be rude, but inside I’m screaming “wake the fuck up!” What font did you choose for your “SUCKER” tattoo?

            I think it’s particularly heinous when someone’s priest/minister/pastor/guru or whatever spiritual leader one looks to for guidance, leads them to believe that they have to shoulder all or any of the responsibility for the cheater’s horrific actions.This woman was clearly made to believe she should take the Stand-By-Your-Man approach, as that’s what a good Christian woman does, without any regard for the effect it would have on her or her children’s well being. Will her kids grow up to think that that’s how a family operates? I would be double dipped in shit before I would be anyone’s sister wife.
            I was fortunate enough to receive some very good advice and a caring attitude from my priest. We did talk about forgiveness and he explained what that really means and only after he advised me on taking care of myself. He also told me to get a lawyer. When a Catholic priest tells you to get a lawyer, you know things are bad. But never did he make me feel that I contributed to the cheating, and I truly appreciate that.

            • I was also lucky when I talked to my priest. this was before I even knew he had a side chick. I was telling the priest how my husband wasn’t coming home, wasn’t giving me money for the bills, wasn’t helping with the kids, house, yard, vehicles, that he was an alcoholic and how I suspected that he was on drugs. my priest told me to divorce him….

              I was shocked. I guess I was hoping the priest would have the magic answer on how to “FIX” the man I married in the church and vowed to love, honor and cherish. but nope, he basically told me that the Catholic church is NOT against divorce (only against remarriage) and that my husband was NOT keeping his end of the marriage contract, or acting like a man or worst like a Christian. he warned me that if I were to stay with such a man, my husband would most likely pull me and the children down with him. ironically he told me I can not control him and if my husband was acting like that I needed to get away from him.

              he was my last chance or my last hope. I had already talked to a lawyer who advised me to divorce him, and my parents who said I needed to do what I needed to do and if he was hurting me then I needed to get away from him. my wonderful dad actually told me “I think it is time”

              so with just about everyone telling me to divorce him, even BEFORE I knew about the hood rat, made it so much easier when I did find out about her. when she called me up to tell me I “didn’t treat him right” (after knowing him for 3 months) and “she respects him” (like I did not respect him). that “FIGHT FOR YOUR MAN” shit lasted all about 5 minutes and I told her that I didn’t need to talk to her and hung up.

              hardest thing to do in my life. but it was very good advise.

              • Finally someone smart in the religious community to have an ounce of common sense. We need more like him, mrsvain.

            • Carmella–that poor woman. There would have been only person ‘standing’ had I endured that, and I would have needed a defense attorney rather than a divorce attorney. Is there an on-line donation for a spinal transplant for her?

            • The woman who runs that “standing” website engaged in some dialogue with Tracy several years ago on this site, i seem to recall.
              No one with any self esteem should tolerate cheatin, IMO. The odds of having a happy marriage after cheating are abyssmally small.

            • Standing for 5 years??? I hope to be a survivor, and I know it is a long shot. Each person has/his her own journey and set of circumstances. The Catholic church has come a long way in terms of recognizing that divorce is sometimes the only viable option.

            • There is nothing in scripture that condones to enabling sin or “standing” for an adulterous spouse who is unrepentant. This is really a part of a church sub-culture; an unwritten doctrine that is in no part biblically based. In fact, scripture is clear that one should separate from a person who is sexually immoral and even Jesus himself sanctioned divorce. (Mt. 19:9)

              My church MC’s caused me a lot of confusion when it came time to divorce my now ex-wife, while I knew I had God’s blessing to do so.

        • What these churchy people need to understand, is that there is one Jesus, who suffered and died for everyone. The narcissists aren’t so special that they get to have their own messiah. And Jesus was a good enough messiah that none of us need to be one too. Especially not some entitled cheater’s personal sacrificial lamb. And anyone who pushes a chump to stay in such a hellhole out of some kind of obligation, should step up and do that themselves. No volunteers? Didn’t think so. I wish I could have jumped much sooner. I waited and got hit with “reconciliation and condonation” along with an std.

          • “The narcissists aren’t so special that they get to have their own messiah.” Hahahaha, I love this, Crimson Comet.

            • I would love for them to stick some fireworks up their asses so they can shot to their “messiah”. Now that would be a sight to see.

            • Love the “Narcissist’s own Messiah” remark as well! I’m going to remember this quote. I’ve
              met too many very really destructive predators lately – disguised as pious “Christians”.

      • Fireproof is a good movie for motivation, IF and only IF both partners are trying and honest (and not cheating). Otherwise, I’ll save my movie tickets for “ChumpProof”

        • Did anyone else notice that in Fireproof, the wife was cheating but the husband was portayed as the only bad one, the one who had to win back the cheater. Weird, I thought cheating was wrong. Guess i was misguided.

          • He was portrayed as having a porn problem, and the wife’s was an emotional affair, as I recall. So they were both being unfaithful to the same degree, IMO.

      • When you are a “nice” person, a Chump and a Christian, you are in for a three-way! You have such a hard time believing that someone you loved and spent years with would do this to you. By the time you wake up, the damage is severe, especially if you have been led to the philosophy of forgive and forget, the pick me dance, the you did something wrong approach, etc. Like you could feel even lower or even worse than having your trust and life shattered by infidelity! I wish my decisions had been different in the beginning too, I was going through 3 years of confusion before finding this site myself. Pure HELL.

    • “Stay” is just another directive to eat the shit sandwich. LOL that is exactly what it was. Bullcrap counseling and affair books pitch the burden back on the BS. BS is told “if you want this to work YOU the brokenhearted spouse have to move on, and let the past go”! WTF I cant believe I ate shit sandwiches for over a year…ugh no wonder I feel sick!

      Damn wish I had found CL before!!!!

  • After I found X and butter face at the hotel, I called him out, confronted him right in front of the hotel room while she hid inside. I didn’t hit him, slap him, or scream at him. We had a nice little soul-crushing exchange of words for all of 3 minutes, and I promptly left and went home and began packing up his belongings.

    But sometimes, I only wish I would have NOT confronted at all, and went about the business of planning the next few months. I was paying off all our credit cards at the time. Had I just kept my mouth shut, I could have easily just paid mine off and let his sit a little. I could have banked more money, since I did all our bills. I would have had quite the head-start.

    But that’s probably not realistic. It was all I could do to just hold it together once I found out. I don’t have that kind of skill where I can quietly plot once I know someone is trying to destroy me. Fight or Flight response, this time I did them simultaneously.

    Best decision I ever made.

    • That is why I am waiting RUMBLE. I have like 3 cc in my name and the bastard pays for them and use them. If something happen I will be *f$@ the financial part and the kids are the most difficult. That is why they eat cake. Fucktards

      • Can you cancel the cc and act innocent and surprised? Then suggest that he go ahead an open a cc in his name? File for separation, at least. You need to protect yourself. At least in my state, half his debt is mine if it is incurred while married.

        • Debt is not yours if your name is not on the card. Get cars in your name only and get all the copie of joint debt. Cheater wi have to pay for debt spent on OW

          • Not true in my state–both assets and debts incurred since marriage are “community property,” no matter whose name they are in.

          • True in my state too…. Unfortunately his debt is my debt until a temporary domestic order is petitioned. The TDO will freeze assets and any debts acquired after the petition is the responsible party’s unless agreed differently in the settlement. Its gets complicated. Always seek counsel…there are a ton of free resources. You may not be able to get out of half the debt but you will be able to better navigate a better settlement regarding those debts once you understand your states/ contry’s divorve laws.

          • If you are an authorized user on the card you may also be liable unless you van prove you never used the card. I ended up paying a debt from my 1st marriage because of this.

      • that’s the problem this chump over here was his savior he likes to pretend and now has no credit. He has a good job and now he using my credit for everything house, repairs etc and does not save $ and do not dare to say no because he start arguing . He is smart and don’t use my acc. with the whores but speding less $ on whore will paid of
        CC faster. I can not wait to save enough $ to start consulting with a lawyer… my plan is to choose and have all docs ready no callings banks to request docs and as part of the deal he will have to pay for a psychologist for my son!! fucktard/psycho/. I love this website since I don’t have time for psychologist or money I get the best support here. Knowing that I am not the only one. I will be mighty and in a few years I will tell my story.

    • TROLL ALERT (heads up to who ever is manning Tracy’s site while she’s off touring).

      me3–everyone is capable of murder. I just haven’t been sufficiently tempted yet. Well, until now.

      • Tempest, doesn’t this troll sounds familiar? Working with the same old material? REPEAT OFFENDER. Troll, you need a new hobby. Chia Pet perhaps?

        • Yes, Boudica Reborn–more familiar troll material. How many proxy servers can one troll find to use?

          • Kinda makes you wonder if their employer needs to know what they’re up to at work?

            • Stephanie, the really interesting thing about the ex he used work for his play ground. That is how he found OW. Now for me when I am at I am working. For the ex was his playground to line up all of cake. All of his OW were co-workers and that included me also.

      • Yeah…….. wanted to ask Monsieur manners (Troll) if “his generation” also practices safe sex? Since “Everyone’s” hooking up and all….

        Clearly not worried about those Little O’L human rights issues of: STD’S, emotional, sexual, financial partner abuse by stealth..

        But probably wouldn’t give an honest response anyway…..

        • This particular post hits a staggering nerve for me and I have been thinking about all this “therapy,” and “treatment,” stuff for the longest time now….and what would have helped. If the Professionals that I encountered had encouraged me – UP FRONT. Face the truth.

          Immediate contact to lawyer and legal assistance
          Mandatory post nup and background check
          Health screen for STD’S

          To validate the cheaters behavior they should (unknowingly) be submitted to detective surveillance. (this would be the equivalent to a random urine drop for a drug addict which is commonly done).

          The therapist should never promote, “Do nothing right away.” but help activate the betrayed person (who is in shock) to self advocacy and focus away from the betrayers words/actions.

          If the cheater refuses the post nup or background check help me move….. towards divorce not “reconciliation.”

          Help me the betrayed partner to face the hard TRUTH right up front and at the beginning not years, and years of costly “therapy,”

          Instead I stumbled painfully but eventually followed my gut but at what price?

        • Please DON’T FEED THE TROLLS! We spot em when we see em but thanks to the moderator, they disappeared before I saw their stupid posts.

      • Another troll Tempest? I thought for sure with the last couple of posting from CL they were going to come out. So sad their lives are that empty.

    • Rumblekitty….ya I stuck around quietly planning my break away moment. It really helped with the checkbook but was not good for my head!!! In fact I was going to wait it out until the end of the year, but the Chump Nation helped me get my butt in gear. I will figure out finances so much easier when my head isnt all screwed up!! So glad you cut the ties swiftly and are starting a NEW life:-) 🙂

    • Jog on Spathard Troll. No kibbles for attention whores (or other forms of whores) here. Attention Chump Nation……….listen to the pleasant sound of………tumbleweed.

    • Speak for yourself. I’m not sure what generation your talking about but coming from a 22 year old who lost her fertility due to a cheating boyfriend.. it was not JUST A HOOKUP. Not sure what planet you hail from but even in my generation it is an unforgivable thing. It is dangerous and disgusting. Spoken like a true cheater me3.

    • Wow Rumblekitty you caught them in the act ? So sorry this happened… Imagination is awful enough

      • Well, I didn’t make it INTO the room. But thanks to “Find My IPhone” that I installed on his phone a week prior, I was able to pull up right next to his car and phone him. I waited about 1 minute and watched the room he walked out of. At the time, yep it really stung. Now, meh.

        • Rumblekitty, isn’t it special finding your loving spouse in a hotel with a whore? When I found my Ex, I pulled up at 3:00 am and he and the whore(dressed in a white negligee??) were out smoking on the balcony! Dumbass calls me and asks me ,”what are you doing in the parking lot?” Seriously? I was livid! By the time I made it into the hotel and up to the second floor, little miss shitface was dressed in an outfit reminiscent of a lumberjack(bold plaid flannel shirt, khaki pants). Then she proceeds to tell me they didn’t sleep together, they are just “good friends” who met on FaceBook! I called bullshit, but apparently she really thought I was that stupid!

    • Rumblekitty and Freefall, I often had the thought that I wish I could have stuck around longer, collected more money and evidence and then left. As it was my ex got a bonus (he’s in the military) for $20,000, I played really nice for about week until that money came in and got him to pay off the credit cards that were in my name (he had no credit) and then I left. Of course since I am raising our child alone, money is always an issue.

  • While I agree with CL 100%, remember that the social pressure to “forgive” and “make it work” is very strong. Forgive yourselves if you didnt recognize danger and get out right away. I think most of us tried to reconcile for at least a time. The only thing that matters is what you decide to do Right now. It is never too late to end a relationship in which you are a second class citizen.

    • Yes, Marezy, the pressure is very strong. Even now, after the divorce and known fact of his cheating, some still wonder why I didn’t stick it out. Actually, I believe that some of these people may have dealt with some degree of infidelity with their own partners, and did their own wreckonciliation or just flat-out denial, and are projecting it and justifying their own choices. Just a hunch.

      • The thing that made me hesitate the most was my worry about the kids. I knew I hsd no shot at custody and felt I was abandoning them to a borderline and her affair partner.

        • Arnold
          Only on paper… Kids feel abandoned when they are. Regardless of the time split ,quality always trumps quantity. If your are truely invested in your children you will never be far from them.

      • I find there’s a pretty strong parallel between Chumps and the spouses of drug addicts/alcoholics. Chumps are pressured to “fight for the marriage” and “stand strong.” There’s no pressure on the cheater to say… STOP CHEATING. They’re the weak link. They’re wounded forest creatures. They have unmet needs and unstroked egos.

        With the spouses of addicts, they’re pressured to be patient, ignore the “misdirected” family resources and the embarrassing intoxicated behavior, try to get them into rehab, support them in their recovery. If they leave, they’re cruel and heartless for “giving up” on their poor weak spouse.

        In both cases, the functional spouses are expected to be functional because they are capable of functioning. They’re expected to be “reasonable” because they can be reasoned with. The cheaters/addicts are too wrapped up in their selfish pursuits to consider the needs of their spouse and family.

  • Great advice! Protecting yourself is paramount to self preservation when you discover your spouse/partner is a liar.

    If you need to have a license from the state to legally marry, why then isn’t infidelity a legal crime? Because we’ve bastardized the definition of infidelity over the years. Infidelity is:

    1.marital disloyalty; adultery.
    2.unfaithfulness; disloyalty.
    3.lack of religious faith, especially Christian faith.
    4.a breach of trust or a disloyal act; transgression.

    When one steals from their spouse and children, puts their spouse’s health at risk without them knowing, and deliberately lies and manipulates their spouse to think they are crazy, how can this be just winked at in court?

    Sadly, the amount of justice you get is equal to the amount of money you’re willing to pay for it. So much for justice being blind. She’s nothing more than a cashier in probate court now.

    • Chutes, ain’t that the truth! These cheaters are thieves and liars! They have deceived their LEGAL spouse! It’s criminal!

    • Amen. Even in states where it technically “matters”.. it doesn’t matter much. At the least, there ought to be some “infidelity” penalty, where the cheater has to pay a certain percentage higher of the assets to the LBS. There should be some INCENTIVES that keep people from doing these things. Instead, society almost encourages it. It’s sick.

    • “She’s nothing more than a cashier in probate court now.” More true words were never spoken….

    • I bet there are just as many faithful atheist, agnostics and members of other religions as there are faithful Christians. So, why is lack of Christian faith more of a factor? Thzt statement seems insulting to others.

      • Yes, it does. But do not non Christans believe in fidelity just as much? Same with agnostics and aetheist, many of whom are very ethical people.
        So, why was infidelity characterized as more of an affront to Christian faith than to other faiths or ethics? Seems chauvinistic to me.

        • Arnold, many of the cheaters “claim” to be good Christians! With my Ex, he claimed to be the perfect catholic. It was nothing more than a facade! Then he invoked God during his affair. He told his Schmoopie, “God is guiding us.” Really?? It’s an affront if you are a huge hypocrite like my Ex for sure. I do not see how you could argue that!

          • After I caught mine cheating the first time with a married co worker he explained “it’s all ok because we married ourselves under the stars”! I proceeded to do the martial counseling thing as I was pregnant with my first son at the time! I notified the AP’s husband what was going on which infuriated him and stayed married another 36 having another son living in kibbles an empty promises! He was terrible father also (ignited the kids) but he just got better at hiding his sexual deviance a! After 36 years he blew up the marriage and took off his mask! He and another co-worker whore stalked me in their Verizon truck! Both were trying to intimidate me in running out of my home! At times there behaviors made me feel my life was at risk! He was deliberately hurting my dog! I had slit if evidence which the court did not care about! He legally was able to steal and abuse me in the divorce! The damage was epic! I am now divorced 10 months on and fighting to get him to turn over his pension info for division! I purchased a small cottage style older home and could not be happier! I still wished I did it earlier as he stoled so much money and career opportunities from me.. that can never be retrieved! GET OUT WHEN YOU FIRST DISCOVER!

  • From Dday to the judge’s gavel took three months and three weeks. I moved so fast that dumb ass didn’t have time to digest the information to realize how screwed over he was about to be financially. Score one for chumps everywhere!!!!

    Counseling for nine months was not working. I was jumping through hoops to make it work. I couldn’t understand why our marriage was not getting better. Then Dday. No wonder why it wasn’t working. There were twelve pictures of him and his work whore (who has a husband and kids of her own). That was all that I needed to put the nail in the coffin. I was not above threathening him by showing the pictures to her husband and his boss. Company time and resources used for the affair. Hummmm…can you say fired!?!

    Looking back now. He did me a favor by being so reckless with those photos. I got more than 50% in the divorce and I get to look into the mirror, hold my head up high and say “I did everything I could possibly do and it didn’t fall apart because of me”. Priceless!

    After reading this blog for ten months, I am one of the lucky ones. I ache when I read stories of being totally screwed…no place to go, no money, no job, children’s lives recked, self esteem gone, surmountable debt, disease. I pray for each and every one of you.

    I am glad I didn’t think just reacted. Now six months post divorce and going through all the “firsts” First holidays, first summer, first school shopping, firsts suck because dumb ass is unhappy and wants to control. Ya know what else sucks, crappy advice. I heard it all from…are you sure you want to break up your family to slow down what is the rush. So would you like me to slowly saw off at the neck or just one fatal swipe?

    • TP! I applaud you! You are decisive and mighty! Wish I’d have moved faster, but alas, I got like 80% in my divorce because I too had solid proof he sat at his employers stealing time to sext his Schmoopie and boy did I use that to my advantage!

      • I always feel that the balance is tipped in the favor of the cheater. Glad to hear that is not always the case!.

        • TP, I find that is my own experience and that of many chumps I know. I think the reason being is that we are kept off centre or off balance by the cheater for so long, that they have a distinct advantage over us when the sh*t hits the fan.

          • Arnold, I have to disagree with you. A cheat is a cheat whether they are a stay at home parent or in the workforce. If a man or woman are hell bent on betraying their partner and doing what they want to the detriment of all else, they will find a way to do it.

            • I meant that the stay at home cheating parent, often , gets custody and the house.

              • On this point I will tend to agree with you Arnold. It’s totally unfair and I believe it’s detrimental to the children in the long run. Until the Justice system in the U.S. Wakes up and recognizes that children, by default, are not always better off with Mom then the unfair advantage will continue. My age and experience have exposed me to seeing this happen often and some of these SAHM’s who moonlight as the neighborhood “bike” are horrible humans with no feelings for their offspring other than child support. A woman has to be really, really neglectful or drug addicted to lose her kids. I had a situation in my extended family where “mommy” was actually arrested for prostitution, but successfully kept custody. When she finally lost custody, she just “kidnapped three girls and travelled around for a year before being caught! Long story, but ended up doing no jail time!

    • You are indeed mighty! I wish I could move faster. My cheater has the might of the state’s largest employer on his side. Of course OW also works there so I wonder how it will all play out.

    • One of the best reasons to move fast is because they have been cheating for longer than they admit. X had his exit planned. Although the records show he called her on the third of the month I suspect he was seeing her longer. Who moves in with a bar whore after three weeks of knowing her and discards an entire family? I waited three months and she became his mouthpiece. She wanted everything including my pension. Luckily she is so whacked she gave him bad advice and brought out his true colors. Point being, do it before the OW becomes his alli.

  • Rumble kitty, been there and done that, but I actually gained entry into the hotel room! It was surreal with his HO acting like nothing at all was going on! She was cool as a cucumber! Sociopath behavior anyone? I knew then and there it was done, but chumpy me hung in a few months more all the while maintaining the finances and yes paying off bills! I finally woke up in August 2013 and filed, got a Temporary Support Order which froze all of our assets! THEN HE TOOK NOTICE! Best thing I ever did! He and she were cleaning up on money and I did stop it and got it back in the divorce! I agree with the post today, run, it IS an emergency! Get out and protect yourself! Doing anything less is financial suicide. I suggest to all chumps that if you can stand being around the cheater for just a couple of days, get your ass to a Financial Planner who specializes in divorce. Get those Ducks in a row then paddle out!

      • Donna, also had the pleasure of the OW giving him advice on what she thought I should and should not get in my divorce! She wrote up and down the margins of the proposal “nope” for him and wrote in the margin for alimony the statement, “Roberta can work!” This bitch did not work and has somehow wrangled lifetime support from her Ex even though she cheated, her husband knew it and could prove it, and in her state it’s a well known fact that if you cheat you get no support! I can’t stand this HO!

    • THIS is the BEST advice ever!!!!! My ex made over 100k/year but that didn’t stop him from blowing up his family financially (six years out though and my kids are doing okay…). Ex walked on the mortgage on our custom home on twenty acres in the foothills of the Sierras. Ex is a peace officer with the state who worked pt at the family court next door for two years just so he could learn how to screw me over right, that and network and spin his Sparkley narrative. Our family court was a joke too. Overworked judges with good ol’ boy biases, male lawyers in the county who would not take my case because “alimony was an issue.” Long term marriage, who the fuck cares!?!? Kids in college? Over eighteen? Hell, he got to ditch them too! So much for responsibilities! IMHO, I think if half the marriages failing today that involve a third party then you can bet there is a case IN EVERY ONE for financial dissipation. A divorce financial analyst should be provided in EVERY dissolution that involves infidelity, Period! If anyone wants to get a petition going I would definitely volunteer my time for the cause.

  • “Just go to marriage counseling.” That’s a kicker. As if most cheaters give a shit. Counseling only works if both partners are trying.

    As DivorceMinister said, “Win him/her back” is the other bad line.

    • I’ve honestly lost count of the number of marriage counsellors we saw over our 11 years together. Perhaps five?

      He sat there for each one and lied right to the counsellor’s face. It was useless and only kept me stuck.

      The counsellors frequently came back with terrible advice that showed they were only half listening. Here’s a selection:

      1. Stop snooping and start trusting – bad advice when he’s a flaming, charming narc who is an expert at hiding the whores. I was full-time marriage police by the end. I only had his cheating confirmed by snooping. But he loved that advice, helped keep me in the dark and him powerful. And it gave him the ability to feel affronted by my snooping, as in how dare she not respect my privacy!

      2. Stop being angry – right, because someone having sex with a parade of strangers is not something to get angry over. I should have stuffed it and moved on so then his lying and cheating became my fault.

      3. The blame and the work should fall on both shoulders – that would only be good advice if the cheater a) took any responsibility and was remorseful and b) was willing to shoulder any work whatsoever beyond weak apologies that lead to no change.

      4. CL’s timid forest creature and FOO excuses – this really happens. I was witness to it. The most recent counsellor compared him to a doe in the forest that I should approach slowly with an outstretched hand. And she explained away his serious fuckedupedness with his FOO issues – because why should this charming man take any responsibility for his behaviour when he can easily blame someone else, like his parents, me, etc.

      • Yes, those hoops we should be jumping through just to get Disordered to LOVE us! Fuck that noise! And who the fuck doesn’t have ISSUES? Own up to your ability to MAKE a CHOICE and DEAL with life like a grown up. (Instead these cretins just dig themselves a bigger hole!)

  • The worst advice I ever received after he was screwing the OW in my bed was given by my mother. She told me in my state if paralysis that he was a good guy.

    I forgive her as she tollersted abuse her entire married life. I wanted to believe.

    X was still cheating 20 years later and the final DDay was soon after she died in my arms.

    I wear her wedding ring to remind myself to get strong, never tolerate abue, and to model boundaries to my daughters and grandaughter

  • Boy, I couldn’t agree with this more. I was one of those chumps with an unremorseful (still is) cheater who never admitted his crimes, despite mounds of evidence. I should have kicked his sorry ass out in January when I got the “I am not sure I want to be married to you anymore”, proceeded by a laundry list of my faults, down to the height of my high heels. I should have said.. there’s the door buster, pack your bags and get the hell out.

    But I didn’t. I chumpily called a marriage counselor, reflected on myself, tried to address all the issues he brought up, did an award worthy Pick Me Dance.. all the time he kept seeing that slut behind my back, lying about it, and egging me on. Every now and then he would throw me a crumb.. including a euphoric mea culpa in April where he came home hat in hand saying he wanted to give us a chance. Each time he pulled me up, a few days later he pulled me down. And those fluctuations coincided with weird phone numbers showing up on his bill. Little did I know our ups and downs were all about his and the whore’s ups and downs. Chumpy me I believed my vows “better or worse” and I gave him chance after chance to wake the hell up. He never did.

    The only positive thing I can state about my 8 months of hell is that it has given me the peace that I did absolutely EVERYTHING in my power to save my marriage and family. I have NO regrets about that part of it. I put him first, the marriage first, I tried to hold it together for my kids. I approached it with a spirit of forgiveness and reflection. I was willing to take my share of the marriage blame (although not the affair blame). He on the other hand was acting selfishly from the get go. It was all about securing the whore before leaving my house. All about his desires, what he wants. Finally, I kicked him out.. not sure if the whore is in the picture anymore or not and I don’t care. But had I not kicked him out, he would have continued to languish in limbo- avoiding the hard decisions and consequences. Instead, just like most times in our marriage, he made me do the hard dirty work.

    Good Riddance. And good luck with your new sparkly man child whore. I hope you are up for some serious babysitting!

    • Your mea culpa comment reminded me of what my dumb ass cheater did with schmoopsie. While I was halfway across the country with our kids visiting my family, he was working on his latest meal ticket in New York. He actually got Mea Maxima Culpa tattooed on the back of his neck, cause he’s such a devout Catholic ya know. LOL !!!

  • Ah, the house on fire metaphor. My ex used it on me, stating that the house had been on fire and I refused to help put it out. She took matters into her own hands and off she went. I never even heard an alarm!

    I still struggle with the desire to be her plan B, the backup plan, whatever. I know I should value myself more highly, but I don’t feel it yet. But it’s not as if she even gave me the choice. It’s more for my own self-flagellation at this point. For the folks who get the option to reconcile, I think the advice basically boils down to “you should feel honored just to be nominated, even if it is for a supporting role in your own life”.

    Change sucks. Change is hard. Change is inevitable. Life is full of changes. To not change is to stagnate and die. The sooner I can accept and love change, the sooner I’ll be at peace.

    • WWDSG,

      I think we all struggle with that. I know I do. I go down the rabbit holes of HOW this two bit tramp could be better than me and our intact family?? Looking at her, there is no way. She’s not as attractive, sure as hell isn’t as smart, not as accomplished, not a mother, she has terrible habits (smokes) and major FOO issues. How is she worth our marriage.. especially considering that I was more than willing to address the valid issues he had. Not all women would have been, but I was.

      I think that’s the point though. I am too ‘easy’ too ‘comfortable’ too ‘boring’ to him. And you know, that’s not a reflection of me at all. It’s a reflection of him. Seriously, what idiot throws away a gorgeous wife who has a good job, a nice suburban home, stable finances, two beautiful healthy kids.. to go wallow in the mud with some two bit slut?

      There is no answer for that.. except that the idiot is so mixed up and disordered, he can’t make rational decisions. Therefore, you cannot blame yourself. It’s THEM. It really is. It took me a long time to accept this and I still have trouble with it, but just keep repeating.. “It’s not me, it’s her”. It truly is.

      You are NO WOMAN’S PLAN B!!!!! You are plan A!!! You love yourself, you love your kids, you love your friends, your love is worthy of appreciation. Being someone’s backup plan isn’t love nor is it what anyone deserves. That’s why I’ve never understood the OW/OM mentality… who would want someone’s sloppy seconds? Who would believe a con artist who is spinning lies about his FAMILY and SPOUSE to get in your pants? The answer is a very disordered, screwed up individual. The OW/OM have no self respect or they wouldn’t do this. They would’t be so easily persuaded by jerks like our Xs. In short, our spouses, they found people as screwed up as they are to wallow with. You you can rest assured that OM is not a quality person.

      But that isn’t who I am and it isn’t who you are WWDSG!!! Remember, you might be an old shoe to your X but you’ll be new to someone ELSE. Someone else will be able to VALUE the great qualities in you.. when you are ready to let them. Someone else will think you are WONDERFUL. For now surround yourself with people who validate who you really ARE. Change does suck, I hate change too but sometimes it becomes a blessing. Sometimes it’s darkest right before the dawn.


      • WWDSG

        You are better than ever being anyone’s plan B. I humiliated myself fighting to keep a sociopath over and over. I believed the lies. I forgave.

        Now a year later I am finding peace with filing and divorcing the person who never loved or respected his wife or family.

        Staying in the shit and bathing in it allows them to continue with no consequences. The next time it’s worse. The pain is finite as CL states. For every cheater there is a good chump. There are many good people who would appreciate you. Put your energy into yourself. Don’t torture yourself. Make it enough and a deal breaker. You deserve much more.

      • HI NewChumpati,
        There are a few people’s threads here that really resonate with me and yours is one of them. Your comments:

        “I think that’s the point though. I am too ‘easy’ too ‘comfortable’ too ‘boring’ to him. And you know, that’s not a reflection of me at all. It’s a reflection of him. Seriously, what idiot throws away a gorgeous wife who has a good job, a nice suburban home, stable finances, two beautiful healthy kids.. to go wallow in the mud with some two bit slut?”

        I could have wrote that!! I really thought no one could love him the way I did and I thought he cherished that. And the really annoying part is that one day he MIGHT get it (that he was such an f’ing idiot); but it won’t matter, none of it will matter then and I find that tragic. His MOW is a serial cheater (she has been this way since early 20’s – she is now mid 40’s) (to be fair, he may be too, but I have no proof)- I laugh because I know she was the one to manipulate him, not the other way around, but he is too arrogant to see it. Everyone has told him, me, his mom, his sister, his close friends – but there is no talking to a cheater wrapped up in the fantasy.

        And I will never forgive him for destroying our intact family for such a low-life. My sweet 5 year old has expressed suicidal thoughts and laments for the “old days” (a 5 YO shouldn’t have fucking Old Days!!!!!) – HOW CAN ANYONE PUT A 5 YO IN THAT POSITION – UNFOR – FUCKING-GIVABLE!!!!!

        I take a lot of deep breathes and shake my head a lot – my logical loving mathie brain cannot figure out this equation.

    • Yeah I was told that I could be plan b if the dream lover didn’t work out! The emotional side of me wanted to make it clear that I wasn’t anybody’s backup plan. The logical side of me told her that I’d be waiting like a good boy in case things didn’t work out. Of course I did not waste the precious time that it bought me to hack all the emails and fb accounts. I even discovered that her millionaire boyfriend was neither a millionaire nor was he detached from his wife. That was a nice email to intercept! I loved forwarding that one as soon as I was divorced a few weeks later.

      Plan b is no plan. Don’t let a monster steer your actions. She’s unwittening given you a great gift and now you can escape with a clear conscience.

      • So many of us received versions of the Plan B offer. Mine first wanted to separate to “see if he could find what he was looking for”. All while I stayed behind and kept the home fires burning and he kept his bank accounts in tact. Uh, no.

        And then at some point he said “we can always get remarried”. Uh no fuckwit. You leave me that’s the end of the road.

        Amazing the entitlement on display.

        • Sisyphus & chumpati — Wow… just wow. The audacity and nerve of asking you to sit on the sidelines while they decided whether or not they can make a go with someone else… I am just speechless.

          • Over and Out, after 35 years of marriage my ex decided I was too old to be seen with or married to. However, he was gracious and honourable enough in his mind to throw me some hope and say to me that whilst us being together was no longer an option, I could be his ‘F’ Buddy. Somehow he thought that was a good offer to me and I promptly told him where he could stick it as I was not option B. They really can’t see themselves the way others do.

            • As I read what you wrote, I saw a mini-movie of it playing in my head, with the lovely Meryl Streep playing you. Can you envision how that would play out? Her reaction to an offer of being a fuck buddy after being told she was no longer a fitting arm ornament? Wow

            • Maree, I admire your grit and steel. Men like that are such a waste of space and oxygen.

  • This is my first time writing. Almost new Chump summer 2014 and we did celebrate our wedding anniversary. Since I discovered CL & the nation and getting more confident. without knowing I am financially and mentally trap. I read all the chump lady post. I follow her instruction: D-Day I got cheaters diet lost 18 pounds, took chill pills. It is over a year and I am in silence mode but not in paralysis. I keep dreaming about CL story of escape when she bought the house and moved in 3 months unfortunately I can not do that. If I need clothes I need ask big daddy. Something give me power and I found a good job. saving money Waiting to excell and and do a Houdini Act. It is difficult because you have to pretend to be happy . When I see him I wish I could hit him with a pan with hot oil over the head. He is a psyco hard core. He talked to my son about when we get old etc. , got a nice gift for my wedding anniversary a new car. And I discovered on FB that the bastard is with a FBwhore friend and used tinder as well. Bastard I am leaving but I do not when I just do not want to end of in a shelter. If he took time to fuck me up I will take my time, too. Saving money, making copies of documents etc researching for lawyers following all CL advise. NOt easy to pretend (he does not know because I know he will be faster than me and will leave me fuck). That would be a nice writing : How to “make love” with your fucktard and do not think in all the mess he has done. PS excuse my writing English if not my first language.

    • FicoChump–I’m sorry you have to be here, and living in the same house with the cheater while pretending everything is okay.

      Start copying financial documents; when you go to a store for groceries, buy a $25 gift card each time and hide it somewhere safe so that you have a stash of money when you leave. Go to a women’s shelter and at least see if they can help you with getting a reasonably-priced lawyer for when the time comes.

      Hugs to you; this is so rough.

    • Ficochump.. sorry you are here but you are on the right track. Don’t tell him SHIT about what you know. Don’t tell him what you are doing either. Stay even, calm. Collect financials, get yourself a lawyer and protect yourself. You do have rights. You do have claim over his assets. Keep squirreling away your money and get access to anything you can find on his assets. Don’t know how long you’ve been married, but most states are pretty close to 50/50. Don’t assume you won’t have claim over his money. Or that he wouldn’t owe you alimony/spousal support.

      Do you have kids?

      • yes! One son 12 i am making copies of the taxes, got a flash drive and when he is traveling I make save the bank statements. I rented a save box in a bank an put all the docs over there. the big problem will be the house we are upside down big time. Thank God I found an good job and i have a separate bank account now for my paycheck. I don’t have the energy for drama and being absent at my new job. But I know it will happen. Now he is jelous because I am losing weight and he thinks I can fall in love at work. fucking bastards insecures, psychos . This situation makes me feel more confident ironicly. I know I will be ok on my own. I will tell you girls when. I read everyday this blog and pray for you and CL like she is our saint and guide!!

        • I have a 12 year old son too Fico. Hell of an age to have your father freak out on the family, isn’t it? I worry about him but I stay steady and I think fuckwit is at least committed to being there for his boys.. because not doing so would compromise his image and he does care about that.

          Hang in there FICO.. you are doing all the right things and doing it better than I did. Also, make sure you get copies of any infidelity “proof”.. might not make a HUGE difference but character matters, especially in the area of custody. Keep track of all of his behaviors, keep a diary.

          Best.. NewChumpatl

          • thank new chumpatl. It is difficult and humiliating. He is my only partner and I cry everytime I go to the gyno . I am paranoic and every six months go for STD testing (then the nurses ask me , have you been with multiple partners?) I am 40 I don’t have surgery for not having kids since he is so insecure he all of the sudden wants to have kids( just to trap me again) I am losing weight. I tell him is the stress at work.He doesn’t do anything at home. Does not like to go out with my son because it’s too hot. and yes he had that freaking “stare in his eyes” like a zombie, God forbid if you look at him in the eyes he said: “why are you looking at me like that?” I think they are afraid that we read their sins thru their eyes. like the CL article. I think he is under the impression he would be the cheaters marry and with affairs partners for ever “cake powe”. The other AP /whores/ FBwhores will have to take care of him, change his diaper and watching him drunk. He hated his father because he was a cheater and he ended up like him. Maybe it was the way for him to say “Dad love me!” I am a f$!@! bastard like you❗️❗️. what hurt me the most is that my son loves him to pieces when he travels my son is asking when dad is coming back. ?

            • Yes, the cold fish stare, snake eyes, etc. I am familiar. So funny how all of our stories are the same. The same behaviors, the same words, the same stuff. When BD first happened to me I was LOST thought I was alone. This stuff doesn’t happen to people like me. I was part of the great unknowing class, as CL calls it. But it DOES happen to people like me.. and like you and it isn’t our fault. Thank GOD I found this site. I would be dead without it. He whittled down my self esteem, gaslighted and mercilessly blameshifted me. It wasn’t until he moved out and I got some REAL distance from it that I’ve started to realize what utter bullshit it is. I was not a perfect wife but his excuses to throw away our 20 year relationship are frankly ridiculous. To this day, when I have to discuss something with him, he makes my blood boil, that’s why CL and CN say NC. I was in your boat a long time.. 8 months from Bomb Drop to him moving out. Multiple reconciliation attempts that failed. His very presence annoys me which is why getting away is so very critical.

              I know how hard it is to keep living with them. Like I said, I did that for several long months and while I am now sad at times, the energy in my home is a lot more positive. No more walking on eggshells.. worrying about him coming up behind me on computer, worrying at setting him off, or even LOOKING at him and being SICK knowing what he did behind my back and the disrespect he showed me and our family.

              Keep moving towards the light. Keep your eye on the prize and don’t let him talk his way back in!!!! You are mighty, stay mighty!!!! We are with you.

              • very very good post, all is so true. All of them come to realize that WONDERFUL ME deserve better than what they got when they left ( well surprise, surprise) Some of them WONDERFUL ME might wish to get back to save money, effort and social unpleasantness ( and for no other reasons, make no mistakes on that one). Some of them WONDERFUL ME stay away out of selfishness and convenience ( if WONDERFUL ME don’t witness their children’s pain, WONDERFUL ME don’t have to dealt with any guilt at all, how great is that!!!) If they opt for option one, DO NOT take them back, no please don’t. You’d rather be a better person even if alone and poorer than having to align your standards to those of a wealthy cold-hearted crook.

        • Ficochump – It is horrendous on our psyche to live like what you have to to protect yourself and your son.

          Right after DDay, I started using body scan meditation ( to help me manage the intense waves of disgust and anger that the mere presence of my cheater triggered. I regularly do silent body scans to learn to listen to my gut, using a variety of techniques, including the free guided meditation for emotional release from the chopra center.

          Meditation is like a muscle. My early attempts were pretty pitiful because the emotions were so strong. But practicing these either first thing in the morning, under the shower, or right before bed helped me learn how to distance my mind and relax my body despite the large amount of toxic mental manure present in my environment. Now a year in, these techniques are still super helpful, at work, when dealing with my kid, and definitely while negotiating our settlement.

          I hope these might help you too, big hugs to you and forge on!

          • Thanks Chumptitude for posting the body scan:-) Perfect suggestion…I lost my center over the last year. This is very useful! 🙂 have an awesome weekend.

            • Freefall – sending you weekend hugs!

              I can so relate to losing one’s center. I feel my center and resolve slipping so often and I get so frustrated. That’s when I meditate, often repeating to myself that I will turn this baggage into wisdom, and that I won’t let our past pollute my kid’s and my present nor let that POS define our future.

              Far from Meh, but getting closer!

              • Chumptitude – thanks again you inspired me to find other meditations – which was absolutely critical this weekend. That POS came home to get some of his things. Being centered was essential to prevent me from blowing up and telling him what I really thought. It was so hard biting my tongue. ..I think I practiced body scans at least a dozen times – while he chattered away about crap like there was no problem between us. It was good for my children to keep the peace. The children, you know that is why I stayed married to him through his deception, emotional abuse and financial failure and a year of physical abuse when he turned on me. He became hyper jealous and made up crap about me. Hell he accused me of having an affair with someone at the place I bought tires! I thought he was having a mental breakdown. No he was having multiple affairs and blameshifting! ! Anyhow, I stayed for the kids. Why? That POS really didn’t do anything with his children this weekend. But he tells everyone how he devotes his whole life to his kids. He wouldn’t even take all the kids shopping for school supplies. Seriously, some notebooks, bacpacks,glue, etc. WTH ? I feel like a zombie but I seriously checked out all weekend. Quietly meditating or I would have just exploded.
                Let the count down to meh begin!!! 🙂
                Thanks again:-)

              • You GO freefall! From what I have read about your story on this blog, you are an incredible mom and a super mighty woman doing the right thing by breaking out of a very toxic relationship.

                You are an amazingly strong, resilient, and mighty center of your and your kids’ universe. You are modeling self-respect good boundaries not only as a way to lead your life, but as a way to help your kids become adults who will lead lives of integrity and joy.

                You are going through one of the hardest time in your life. But through it all, remember that you will thrive and build your own joyful life by learning how to turn that energy in a new direction. You are now turning your energy towards you and your kids instead of towards your POS ex’s happiness.

                Your ex feels this (kibbles, kibbles, where have they gone?) He will do all he can think of to try and be back at the center of your universe.

                This is why keeping together while he baits you is as hard as it is showing him that he no longer has power over you! The more you keep it together, the more at first he will ramp up the abuse. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep your kids and yourself safe!

                The most important thing to your healing is to prevent any situation when you are in a private setting with him. Related to him “picking up his stuff”: it can be endless, he will forget things, just wanting to “drop in” just to see if he still can.

                My advice is for you to pack up his stuff, and email him on a Sat morning that his stuff has been packed and is on the front porch or at a specific location, and that you decline any responsibility for damages or theft. Also tell him that if it is not picked up by Monday morning, you will drop all of it to goodwill or salvation army. Adjust the schedule if your ex works on weekends.

                If after that he comes back to you with a request to stop by to pick up things you forgot to pack up (because you know, well he is who he is), ask him to email him a final list of items and you will consider his request.

                Regarding your kids. I am sorry to report that I tried for a long time to co-parent with my STBX, it does not work. Instead, I focus on parallel parenting. I would also strongly recommend that you start using OurFamilyWizard (OFW) immediately. It is an affordable resource that I have been using with my STBX around our kid. It allows you to document everything child related there through journal entries, and email your ex about kids exclusively on that platform.

                During kids exchanges, do not let him in the house. Do the exchange outside, curb side, or at a nearby fast food or at the reception area of his apartment building if needed. I do all my exchanges that way. During exchanges, focus on your kids. I have not been making contact with my STBX for weeks, and have been focusing on saying good bye or welcoming my kid back with plenty of loving hugs and eye contact. A head nod, a brief “hello” or “thank you” is all my STBX gets from me. If he tries to engage with me at exchanges, I cut him off and tell him that now is not a good time, as well as ask him in my best polite customer service voice to please email me via OFW so we can address the issue in a timely manner.

                At first he whined that it did not have to be this way, that there was no need for me to be so angry, so bitter, so [fill in every single emotion he wanted to project on me]. That’s when body scans and positive affirmations in my head are the most helpful. It might seem funny but I kept telling myself on my way to the exchanges “I will not allow you to bait me, my mind is stronger than a nuclear shelter and I will not let you in.” After an exchange I would give myself a mental high five and repeat that my past does not define my future on my way to some fun activity I have planned for my time without my kid. And you know what freefall? I have been feeling strong every time I succeed in pulling a drama-free exchange. Of course he has to bring it to the next level by now bringing his schmoopie to exchanges. Nice try and here comes more “I will not let you…” affirmations. She is not worth my energy and time.

                Months of this and what feels like zillions of body scans and meditation sessions later, and I am happy to say that my life is way less stressful. I have read that our thoughts shape our biology, and I believe it, even more so since several friends and people at work who have little knowledge of my private walk through hell have told me recently that they were impressed about how “bad ass” I have been at pulling through different situations besides the ongoing extraction of my STBX from my world.

                I am sorry that you have to go through this freefall, it “sucks balls!” But please hang in there freefall, you are mighty and have done the hardest part, you have replaced him with you and your kids as the center of your universe! Keep going and at the darkest times in your day, know that I and a whole CN are here to cheer you on as you forge on to Meh!

              • Chumptitude 🙂 Now that is some solid advice. Thank you for keeping this “Super Dumbass Chump” on track. See I found the whole world of forgiveness and compassion when I was trying to mend my heart. Um I went overboard and let that POC get kibble from me. NO MORE. You are exactly right. Your advice is what I would tell others to do. But leaving chumpville is a different way of life for me. I am actually feeling fantastic taking control and minimizing his manipulation. 🙂 Have a wonderful evening. You are the best:-)

                All new chumps read Chumptitudes AWESOME advice!! Stay strong on your way to meh!!

              • You are far from a “Super Dumbass Chump”, you have had the strength to use the most powerful word with the disordered, that is super Mighty. And might, like a muscle, gets stronger and stronger with practice and a supportive community. Keep forging on, keep moving forward through the setbacks and the obstacles your ex will put in front of you.

                First and foremost, please STAY SAFE, and protect your children! The disordered will ramp up their abuse as you resist their control. Don’t ignore the signs, see Tessie’s story on this blog and on the forums for additional information and what to do. If your ex tries to intimidate you, sends you a threatening text or touches you, call the police or file a complaint immediately. Having previous documentation of threats might be critical to get a PO down the line.

                We are on the same boat, and we both are not dumb, we are good people who gave the benefit of the doubt to a disorded POS. Both of us are trying to leave chumpville by the skin of our teeth. It is horrendously hard, I am actually back to chumpville all to frequently, but I’ll forge on until I get to Meh!

                One book that has been helping me is Margarlis Fjelstad’s “Stop Caretaking The Borderline or Narcissist.” Full of compassionate and clear, practical advice. Forge on, it is a hard road ahead, and please give updates on CN soon!

    • FicoChump, I totally get it. Hang in there. I have six more months to wait out. My head would explode if I couldn’t come here to vent. It still might. Keep your eyes on the prize – getting yourself and your son away from your cheater! Best of luck 🙂

    • FicoChump, like you I am waiting to “do a Houdini Act” (loved how you put that!). Keep playing the game until you can escape. I’ve found that on days when it is difficult to pretend being covered in CheaterShit doesn’t hurt and humiliate, Cheater is too self-absorbed to notice how I’m feeling anyhow. You are doing a terrific job as a mother if your son isn’t affected by the toxicity of your relationship and loves his father to pieces. Living post-DDay as if everything is fine is the most difficult thing I’ve ever done. I admire the Chumps who acted quickly but I need to wait to make the break less complicated. Your post (along with all the posts from CN) made me feel less alone in a terrible situation… guess misery loves company! Thank you for writing! PS I have also fantasized about hitting my Cheater over the head with a heavy blunt object – the addition of hot oil to your pan made me laugh!

  • Worse advice: “Don’t let her (affair partner) win. Fight for your husband.” BARF!! I’m the prize! Not him! He’s the loser that slept with a trashball who he would never even want to be publically seen with.

    • AMEN!!!!! Why would anyone want to fight for someone who has so little respect???

      • It’s difficult to both explain and understand Chumpatl. At first he explained it away and I believed him. Much of it had to do with the level of abuse and chaos I was used to growing up. I was convinced he loved me and even when it was unbearable I stayed. I felt pathetic knowing what I put up with. Now there is clarity. He was toxic.

    • My cheater ex husband married Home Wrecking Whore last week, just over a year after our divorce (she divorced her husband and moved into my former home, now known as The Slut Shak). I can’t think of two people who deserve each other more than those two. Their prize is a person who lied and betrayed the person they had promised to cherish. Why would I want to fight and stand in the way of their twu wuv?
      Our divorce was final less than 6 months after I discovered their affair. He wasn’t willing to break contact with her, and I wasn’t willing to participate in a 3 person marriage. In the end it’s a win-win situation: the cheaters got each other. And I got a life.

      • Great post, Strad. My sentiments exactly – basically my story too.l

        I had forgotten that XH’s MOW kept insisting, during our wreckonciliation, that she wasn’t a homewrecker. I agree. she was a homeS wrecker! mine, hers, and the one prior to mine..

        yep, cheaters deserve each other. and chumps deserve to gain a much better life.

        • Yes indeed. The ex married the OW and they have kids. He wanted kids so much. I know they got engaged a couple months when the divorce process. They are very strange people indeed. They share many social media accounts. I wonder why? They don’t trust each other? ha! She is about 20 years younger than him. Now he is about 5 years YOUNGER than her mother. Sick if you ask me! I fully agree they deserve each other and their family and friends also that stick by them. I agree Strad I have a great great life now. I am remarried myself and my life has improve but on my terms and I share my life with someone that has morals, respect, and most of all character and he cooks a great breakfast!

          • Beth-not sure of your ex & owife ages but once she hits 40-45, I don’t care how many “daddy issues” she has, his dumb ass is getting dumped.

            • I am looking forward to that day. She is still in her 20’s and he is in his late 40’s. So the day is coming. Tick, tock! ha! I know her parents are divorced just don’t know why.

  • Not one person told me to wait! Every.single.person told me to divorce his ass – even my 2 sons!!! It was me who sat in limbo for so long trying to figure out what to do. My daughter was graduating and I needed to be there for her for that last year of high school.
    I only had one friend who claimed to be ‘switzerland’ and would support me no matter what my decision was. I have since decided not to be friends with her. Otherwise my family and friends have all told me to get the hell out!

    • Had the same reaction. Only one person, his brother’s wife who said she would support me no matter what but in the end said, that I should just divorce his sorry cheating ass. She also saw how he wore me down emotionally and abused me mentally over the years. And like you, it has taken me 3 1/2 years post DDay to finally get to it. Hoping to see the attorney with all documentation by next week. We have lived apart for almost two years now and I have grieved so much for this 16 year relationship. I question myself each day on how I didn’t notice so many things; how I let him get away with his poor treatment of me; how I didn’t stand up for myself and why it has taken me so long to see his true colours. How can I love such a monster? Please assure me that one day I will find the person who can treat me right and who loves in the same way that I do, wholeheartedly and with kindness. Arghhh!

      • Nola, you loved who he seemed to be, they fool us. I can’t assure you there will be someone good for you, I do assure you that you won’t discount your own needs any more. So it’s likely you will find someone who is reciprocal and who will truly love you. First, find yourself, be content and happy with you. Then a new person won’t seem so urgent. Jedi hugs!

  • He is not having an affair because he is considering your feelings
    He is not screwing around because he is worried about the children
    He is not bipping his bop because the yard or home needs attention
    He is not playing hide the sausage with the OW because his marriage is important to him
    He is not banging the co-worker because his job is on the line
    He is not sluicing your best friend so you can have a better relationship with her
    He’s not addicted to porn and prostitutes because he wants to feel closer to you.
    He is not telling you the truth so you can make a decision to stay or leave
    He doesn’t wear a condoms with other women because he is concerned about your health
    He doesn’t deplete the joint bank account because family finances are on his mind

    Need I go on?

    *He is doing it because he could care less about anyone but himself. IF you want 6 months or more of the above, that is your decision.

    Personally, I threw the fuckers out on day one. Best decisions I ever made.

    *OK to substitute for she.

    • I want to add, I loved him. I shed blood tears (I’ve said this before) after I threw HB#2 out. It was if my skin was peeled from my body and laid naked for the world to see. I just knew he was done with me the minute he chose over me. The act of going outside your marriage for someone else is the ultimate marital boundary violation outside physical or verbal abuse.

      I knew that a relationship is only as strong as its weakest part and my relationship with him would be compromised for the rest of my days.

      Yep. Best decision I ever made.

  • As always CL the perfect post for all of the new chumps or chumps in the middle of the divorce nightmare when it comes to these disordered aliens. I don’t recall anyone telling me anything. I had a great lawyer and his team didn’t take any shit from the ex’s lawyer. There was no kids, no property really to speak about, really nothing but stuff that I didn’t want.

    I would say just to keep your cards near you and be very careful who you speak to about what you are going to do once you leave and file and during the process of the divorce because these cheaters might trying to contact your family and friends and weasel his way into their lives and they might say something to him.

    • Something similar here. A few friends were advising me to think about leaving earlier. When the death threat came from cheater ex, I kicked the process into high gear. There really wasn’t anyone to rely on beyond my Alanon friends, because cheater ex had been carefully laying the groundwork to cut me off from any support for years, smearing me behind my back to anyone who would listen. Apparently he took to heart my telling him early on that cheating was a deal breaker, and wanted to keep his wife and family around to torture at his leisure. Can we say cake? He didn’t love us, he just wanted the power to destroy people.

      Luckily, I contacted a local domestic violence support center and was fortunate enough to have the help of a wonderful advocate who helped me get a temporary restraining order. They also hooked me up with a great lawyer who was kind enough to let me pay her bill in installments.

      I was also finishing nursing school, working nights, and trying to be a good mom to my boys. Amazing what we can do when we have to.

      I know how difficult it is staying while making preparations to get away safely, but those preparations will pay off in the end.

  • “Try to compartmentalize this part of your life. Put it on a box and place the box in the back of your ‘closet’.” – from the MC. HAHAHahaha! My response after I looked at this pro as if he had a third eye in his forehead, NOPE!

    “ANC,what would it take for you to compartmentalize Asshat’s affair, serial cheating, etc…?” Me: ” lobotomy.”

  • I was strong when I found out …kicked him out and then took this advice ….caved and took him back. Regretted it ever since. He has since passed away and then I found chump lady.

    • Welcome, doglover. At least you’re free from the lying, cheating a**hole now. I hope you inherited every penny.

  • JX, THIS! My Ex was dragging his Ho all over our very small town, but what he did not know was everyone was calling me and laughing their ass off at him and his downgrade! People just couldn’t believe what he chose to sleep with! Let the HO have her “prize”, I liken it to those cheap “toys” you acquire as you walk through as you walk through a tawdry traveling carnival!

  • I don’t disagree with anything you write Tracy, especially protecting yourself/assets/etc…. upon initial knowledge.

    I do believe that one complicating emotion in all of the after affair decisions still exists for some or most chumps even after being gutted like a fish: love. Cheaters excel at turning the love light switch on and off easily because their “definition” of love is so skewed and shallow for who knows what reasons. I do believe that those of us that have experienced a true, soul enhancing love struggle to turn that emotion off whether that is a day or a month or 6 months or 2 years later. Is that a horrible trait? Debatable.

    I have said throughout the last 2 1/2 years that my decisions would have been so easy if I didn’t still love him. Our divorce was final last week. I was hoping for this sense of relief but didn’t get it. I do believe it will come with time. I have come along way since you responded to my letter at the end of last summer but like most have a long way to go. Fact remains: I do still love him. His good changes allow that emotion to continue; the really difficult changes that he avoided led to finalizing the divorce.

    The biggest plus of either leaving immediately or exploring other options that fit within your values comes when you catch a glimpse of your own strength. Last week, my daughters called me an incredible lady. 🙂 That sweet comment helped me realize that although I chose a slower path, it was an acceptable path out of the affair stupidity, at least for me.

    New chumps: protect yourself.

    • CLL

      I know exactly what your saying about continuing to love your abuser. This is what they are-ABUSERS. I found reading the book “Women who love too much” helped me understand why I continued with an abuser. I also was diagnosed with Stockholm Syndrome. Now I see what I bonded with- pure evil.

      It take so much strength to remove oneself from this situation. I WANTED to stop loving him. I knew it was killing me. It’s hard to admit I would have stayed forever. Thankfully, he repulses me.

  • If ANY new chump is reeling shell-shocked and reading this, and thinks CL is being a bit hard? I ‘reconciled’ for 5 years, and caught him with OW again. Our divorce is taking a long slow time, and in the last year the lawyer notes that £167,000 has been removed from the share portfolio (all the time he is insisting I am getting a good deal). That’s $250K in US.

    CL is telling you like it is.

    • (A long slow time because I am a Chump, and really prayed and hoped he would change)

      • Been there Patsy. My divorce is taking forever too. I am $10,000 into my lawyer and we haven’t gotten anywhere and it is extremely frustrating. Jackass is prolonging everything because he doesn’t know what HE wants. Looks to me Patsy you will have a nice little settlement with half of your portfolio money he removed.

        • LadyStrange, my divorce ended up costing me 10,000 because cheater boy kept refusing my offers. He would waste time sending counter offers with his discount lawyer that were beyond ridiculous! I think he just wanted to waste as much of my very limited resources as possible! But in the end he waltzed in and signed off on each item I had asked for! Made no sense at all except he managed to frustrate me and almost break me financially! He’s such an asshole!

          • A narcissist believes he is entitled to all of the money…. It just plain spiteful behavior.

            • Yes, mine was “bitter” he had to give me 50/50, since it was mostly “his” money (despite the fact that I gave up a great job for a poor one so he could advance his career).

          • Of all the useful articles CL has written, this one might be the most important. I provide my marriage/divorce story as Exhibit A. If I had filed immediately on first D-Day instead of waiting for STBX to file, my children and I would be financially and emotionally much better off! My legal bill will soon exceed $100,000 (US) in spite of mediocre service by my attorneys; I will need to pay forensic accountants lots of money to unravel the mess made by my fraudulent STBX, his sloppy (and possibly somewhat shady?) tax accountant and by me (not insisting that STBX answer important financial questions and instead assuming that he knew his business and would be ethical). My head was not completely screwed on when I signed the tax return under duress from unethical dangerous STBX. By the time my divorce is final, I will likely have no assets (This fact,for an unemployed 50-something parent of young children is a bitter pill).

            Many of the points CL makes regarding waiting to file for divorce also apply to waiting to switch attorneys. One of my very risk averse parents, who ironically often mentions the fallacy of sunk costs, has repeatedly urged me to stay with the same legal time despite poor service (repeatedly receiving items, lists of questions for hearings, requests to do things, etc. at the last minute or after things need to be done) and a defensive response when I politely state that I need them to do things earlier. (This parent often asks me, ‘How much will it cost to switch?’ A better question might be, ‘How much will it cost NOT to switch?’) If I had appropriately disregarded the advice of the risk averse who knew virtually nothing about the law (but didn’t realize it), then I could probably have saved many thousands of dollars. If the cheaters of people in Chump Nation are anything like mine, then chumps, especially those who have had kids with an obnoxious cheater, will likely need to go to court even after the divorce is finalized. Thus, it pays to have a great attorney or team of attorneys. I’m still trying to figure out how to determine who is good and who is not without spending tens of thousands just to find out that the attorney(s) are crummy.

            I understand fear. I feel fear virtually every day. That being said, waiting to act (e.g., file for divorce in these situations) is like waiting to write a book report because one does not know how to do it and is afraid to fail. Waiting will make the situation worse! Immediately tackling the project (the book report, the dissertation, the divorce) will reduce the total amount of pain one must endure and often reduce the total amount of fear one feels. I’m tackling my tax issues this week–first by recovering my tax worksheets from my computer which died and then by filing for innocent spouse relief with the IRS. I could probably ‘get away with’ and get several thousands of dollars in refund by not correcting the ‘errors’ in my tax returns, but I wouldn’t like myself. I’m worried that I’ll receive the wrath of the IRS and that I’ll never get financial control of my life, but I plan to do whatever possible to fix my returns because I know I’ll have a hard time living with myself if these ‘errors’ aren’t corrected soon.

  • Same here! “Fought to save my marriage” or “I walked away knowing I did everything I could to save my marriage” – Am I a stronger person now- HELL YES but not by choice but by complete survival instinct. I was so scared of change for so long that I completely lost myself in him finding his “happiness” again. Fucking stupid waste of time! I want to go back a year ago and shake the shit out of myself because I think of how much closer to Meh I would be if I didn’t waste all that time in wreckonciliation. Tuesday is coming though …

  • I think I love you.

    If anyone I know ever faces their own D day, I am directing them to this blog post- post haste.

    I took all this bad advice. After my first D day, I forgave. I even dyed my hair at Shithead’s request.

    So thankful for the second and last D day, when I said, “Hell to the no.”

    • Hell2theNO, this reminds me of a good German movie I have seen recently.
      A Jewish woman with a wounded face returns to her home town with a friend. After a few weeks, she looks for her husband in town. He notices her, he tells her she looks a bit like his wife who disappeared in the camps. He offers her a position: she will be paid to play the role of his wife, so that he can inherit the money. First thing, she has to dye her hair, because her natural hair color is “terrible”. He is cold and rude all along. She slowly realizes that he did not love her at all. And then, while she plays her own part, she learns that it was her husband who betrayed her. He told the police where she was hiding.

      • My cheater requested that I try on a dark wig, so I went to the garage where we keep all the costumes. I must have been messed up during that pick-me-dance phase, because I found the idea amusing ! I entered the room with the wig on, and he said that it wasn’t pretty at all.

        And then I thought dying my hair red. He had a sparkle in his eyes when I said it. Now I know why: OW#2 has bright unnatural orange hair, and the idea of travelling around with two redheads gave him a kick.

  • Excellent post Tracy. (I wish you had been around during DD1.)

    I think my circle of friends were fully aware of the depths of EX’s douche-baggery by DD2 so I didn’t experience bad advice.

    I would add to CL’s sage advice — get a trusted friend, family member or even a lawyer to help you in the early days after discovery. If you are like me, the discovery stung and paralyzed like a mother f***.

    Also CHANGE THE LOCKS. I do not care if this is ‘legal’ or not, just do it. This is something that can be easily changed back.

    One of the first things I did was change the name on my living will and power of attorney from my EX to someone I trusted. All I could imagine was being in a coma on life support and the OW making decisions about my medical care. I am 100% certain that the OW would advise my EX to pull the plug.

  • “Suck it up, Buttercup. Your house is on fire…” “Fear has you by the shirt-tails? Wrestle that motherfucker to the ground.”

    This is why I love you CL, seriously! Reading this made me laugh and get choked up all at once, remembering what I and all of my brethren in Chump Nation have suffered. If I had not listened to you I would still be in hell.

    And where I am today is just having celebrated my one year wedding anniversary to a wonderful fellow chump, who has helped me see what true intimacy and connection is all about. I am astounded to think I could still be suffering and moaning and dying a little more each day had I not taken you advice to leave the cheater behind.

  • Worst infidelity advice??? Confront him with what you know, “pull the covers”, so he’s forced to deal with it. Big mistake! This advice (by a marriage counselor) only resulted in stbxh taking his slimy lifestyle deeper underground. Yeah, we did get some pseudocounseling for the issues presented. He was perfectly happy to sit and hash out the things I did know about… but continued lying and cheating through it all.

  • Why is it that the “protect yourself” instinct malfunctions the second you leave and the cheater starts trying to get you back? That’s when I’ve found myself at my weakest.

    There are so many twists, turns, dark caves, haunted houses, monsters and evil clowns along this path to divorce that every day is a fight to keep moving and stay sane!

    • Because you have hope that its just a sick joke that your partner is playing – thats why – rather than it being a disordered quagmire where the deck is always stacked against you, regardless of what you say or do.

  • These cheater losers and their co whores all suck. Leaving them immediately is the best advice.

    • I totally agree NotJuliet! There is just no way to “win” in an adulterous triangle! You are stripped of your trust in your spouse, no matter what you do they still play you, no matter what you say you can’t get through to them! If I had
      It to do over again I would have kicked my cheater out five seconds after he announced he was “in love” with his FaceBook fuck buddy, but no! I wasted, literally wasted my precious time! Fucking two years of pure misery for nothing! I lost him the day he first entertained sleeping with her so by the time he told me they were in a full blown affair I should have just put a big bow on his head and garage her the gift of a dysfunctional cheater with my best for a long miserable life together! I regret everyday of trying to reconcile and hoping he would “wake up!” What a waste! I would advise anyone whose spouse tells them or finds out they are cheating to not even engage in conversation about the affair, but just tell them to get the fuck out and file ASAP!

      • Great reply Roberta! Nice vision of putting him out as garage sale fodder. Reminds me of putting out one’s old, ratty recliner to curb – hoping it’s gone by the next morning.

  • 31 years of chumpdom, blah! ‘NO more’ and CL wasn’t around 25 years ago when shit sandwiches started to be served up. I stayed for children and financial security. Seriously addicted to hopium and all the BS from counselors/ pastors/ family. Its absolutely sickening and now that kids are grown and on their own, I have no reason to continue to disrespect myself and STAY for any reason. He isn’t worth another minute of my life!!!! When someone shows you who they are, believe them, and GTF away ASAP. I regret staying for 25 wasted years and I would advise as does CL, leave NOW. Cheaters, Liars, Manipulators, Narcs, Pyscho’s, Adulterers …. they don’t change EVER!

    • Hey, Fireball, same story here…first time the exhole cheated on me was after 4 years of marriage, I listened to family, pastors, and whatnot, all talking “try and save your marriage”…only to be re-chumped 25 years down the line. This time around, there was no pick-me dance, I just ended things with separation papers asap and followed a strict no-contact from that point forward. I also soon figured out there were likely more affairs, just didn’t have the solid evidence for those…let this be a cautionary tale to any chump contemplating wreckoncilation with their cheater – it just plain doesn’t work. Ever. These jackasses are disordered and incurable in their urge to cheat. Cut your losses. Walk away. It’s been more than a year and I would never ever ever go back to where I was.

      • For the new chumps…my first DDay was 39 years ago. I found out when the Whore’s husband came to our front door, asked for X, pulled him out by the neck and beat the living shit out of him in the grass in front of my children (3 and 4 at the time) and then finished with “If you ever touch my wife again, I will kill you.” After three years of counseling with our minister, I forgave, trusted and moved on with the marriage. CHUMP. A year and a half ago, I was hit over the head with the 2×4 of betrayal and knew within 10 minutes of Discovery spewing all over the kitchen floor, that my marriage was OVER. The next five months brought forward his lifetime secret life…the mask was molded to his face with cement. I had no clue. Please…they do not change. I would give my right arm to play over decisions made after the pounding in the grass. Don’t let this be you…your entire life was a SHAM. Again, they do not change.

        • Thank you blown away. Your sincere advice is appreciated. I wish there had been a wise voice many years ago after the first Dday for both of us…and duh no they dont change. In fact mine got worse!! Best wishes. Smile and enjoy your weekend:-)

  • The worst advice was from the first counselor to acknowledge my part in the marriage problems. We made no progress until he found his own counselor (after I asked him to leave), who told him that he broke the marriage covenant and he had to fix the brokenness within him without any expectation that the marriage could be salvaged.

    • You are lucky he took the advice. My cheater also saw a therapist until (presumably) the therapist told him he was wrong then he quit going. Most of them lack the fortitude for self reflection.

      • He has decided to be the man that God has called him to be. He is still going. I am cautiously optimistic. Time and consistency will determine whether it is real. This ordeal has deepened my prayer life. I have talked to an attorney and I have a plan in place. I thank God for finding Chumplady and DivorceMinister.

  • You’re also turning over control of your life and your decision making to somebody who is actively demonstrating they do not give a shit about you.

    No amount of denial, wishful thinking, or curling up in a ball and crying “woe is me” is going to protect you for the shit that somebody whose life is financially entangled with your own and who doesn’t really give a shit about you can unleash upon you (and your kids) if you don’t protect yourself.

  • I haven’t posted before but I do feel compelled to provide a little helpful advice based upon my experience.

    I discovered my xwife’s affair on Dec 24 2006 and was divorced on Feb 7 2007. I had a new job in a new city by Feb 12 2007. My x demanded to keep the house and our business and I found myself locked out of all the bank accounts. She initially held all the cards as I was a paralyzed zombie for about 2 weeks living in an empty rental house in the neighborhood. I had a sleeping bag and a computer but I was not defeated yet.

    I knew that she wanted to be married to her lover as soon as possible and I used that as my negotiating hammer. I threatened to drag out the divorce for years while her special man would become most impatient. It worked enough for me to get myself away from the shrew and to start a new life at 41.

    Fast forward 8 years and the worm has certainly turned. I rebuilt my life and she is ruined – emotionally and financially. I was the engine that kept our business operating despite her low opinion of me. I always made it a point to never burn bridges and that came in very handy when the chips were down as I was able to make a phone call to get a job.

    The point is that marital cheating is a hostile action that demands a swift defensive response. Your spouse is will destroy you if you let them so it becomes a matter of self-preservation.

    • Congrats to you, Sisyphus! I hear you about keeping bridges/opportunities open when rebuilding. It’s a big advantage over the cheaters (who can’t resist the power/excitement of burning most bridges they encounter)

    • Wow Sisphus.. that is quite a story. I do wonder how long it will take STBX to implode. He always complained about my propensity to be too “practical” and “cheap with money”.. I wonder how long it will take schmoopie to spend his half? He throws money around like water.. I wonder how long before he realizes it’s pretty expensive to live like a high roller (when you aren’t a high roller) and schmoopie and other like brained women are more impressed with things than they are true friendship?

      I guess you reap what you sow and the grass isn’t really greener is it? Except for the chumps… the grass is greener for us because WE ARE realistic and WE ARE survivors. So we get through this shit. It’s hard on us on the front end, but then we prosper. Whereas the cheater galavants on into the sunset at first, but at some point realizes his/her bad habits and bad character cannot be outrun.

  • I got the six month wait it out and see not from a marriage counsellor but from my high price lawyer! Turned out he was the founder of an organisation to make divorce more amicable, less painful,……… So as the cheater had run off I waited. He never returned and I rarely saw him or had any contact. Five years later I am still married. It turned out financially ok for me but it could so easily have gone wrong. With hindsight I say divorce the bastard and talk later – but a bit of groundwork first collecting evidence, documents, is best if possible. But how I wish I had divorced him so fast his feet wouldn’t have touched the ground. If only.

  • Either the advice is to not make any sudden moves or fight for your marriage.

    Like what the hell have I been doing all this time??? Every move and decision made is for the good fight of my marriage. Getting up to cook breakfast to make sure my family is well nurtured and serving him first to make him feel EXTRA special.

    Rearing our children that was born in his image.

    Cleaning up our home and personalizing things to fit and suit him to ensure he’s as comfortable as possible.

    After dealing with my business, our children, wrestling with the house and children at the same time, having his plate ready after work, serving up something special for dinner, making time for him at the end of the day, make love, ego stroking, cuddling, pillow talk, yeah all for my marriage.

    And all he needed was a uneducated, unemployed fool that stays with her mother to pit on all I’ve for the good fight and I, me, she is the one being told to fight for my marriage and not make any sudden moves? Crapola!!! My move will be made but no, it won’t be sudden. I’ll fight ikay, to get as far away from this asshole as possible.

  • I made mistakes divorcing my cheater but the one thing I didn’t do was delay taking action once I discovered his cheating.

    My therapist actually called me at home after talking to my cheater saying that he really wanted me to slow down my decision to divorce him. I said to her that I would not slow down and it was over. I needed all that energy to focus on my healing.

    In hindsight one of the worst ideas was to go home with my cheater after his confession in therapy. He admitted to cheating in a therapy session and we went home together. That shouldn’t happen. Therapists should do their best to make sure that the betrayed have supports and a safe place to go. We don’t encourage people to go home home with their partners who physically abuse them and I don’t understand why therapists/friends/etc are less concerned when there’s infidelity. Seriously, your life is at risk and you are with someone who does not give a shit. I wish someone had told me to get a friend in my home or a family member in the midst of this crisis.

    My cheater came home drunk and belligerent the next night. It was scary and I called the police. Got him out of the home. He never came back. Legal proceedings started a few days later and three weeks later he was out of the home. Thank God. It was hell.

    So yes protect yourself.

  • Worst advice came from a marriage counselor after a dday 15 years ago. I was upset to find out he was setting up dates on our honeymoon with a woman he’d cheated with before. “You need to tell him when his actions hurt you.” So I used a ballpoint pen to tattoo a bullseye centering on where it hurts most so that he knew precisely which insecurities to hit. The same counselor said I was overreacting. Now I know that an overreaction would have been to run the cheater down with a truck then to back up over him while fleeing my brand new doomed marriage.

    Best advice ever pretty much everything on CL. However I think that with kids and assets sometimes the smart thing is to pause and strategize rather than flee.

    • Where. in. the. fuck. do these counselors come from?!? Yeah, you were over-reacting. “face – palm”

    • By acting quickly (e.g., interviewing attorneys, collecting financial statements) in response to discovering one has been chumped,particularly by a very hostile, malevolent cheater, a chum can probably reduce the likelihood that he/she will overreact (by running the cheater down with a truck and then backing up over him). I was seriously tempted once when cheater STBX violated stay away orders judge made to protect me from STBX.

  • I’m really lucky, because in my case, my ex went so batshit crazy and had committed so much adultery with so many people of both sexes, that no one told me I should stick with him. When I was stupid enough to fall for his “reconciliation” con game, my friends were worried and supportive, and they totally had my back once I finally woke up and pulled the plug on that farce of a marriage.

    • Many of our friends initially supported reconciliation because it was, after all, an affair from 8 years ago that he left to come back to the marriage. That all ended when I started singing about his emotional abuse, including forcing me to go into a stone-cold basement to pick up toys the day after giving birth with episiotomy stitches (and a doctor’s command not to do stairs for 2 weeks). Tended to put the relationship in perspective.

  • I was told by my sponsor and many at the AA meetings I go to, to not make any life altering decisions in my first year of sobriety, well I did anyways and left my cluster B. Had I stayed, his emotional abuse may have caused me to pick up a drink again because I was going crazy being around him and resentments were building by the day, resentments are considered poison to an alcoholic and eventually lead to relapse because you get to a place where you say “Fuck it”. Therefore I had to leave to gain peace and serenity in my life that I need right now.

  • SanDummy we are on the same boat in my culture we ended up taking care of the elderlies and as “good wives” the inlaws included. Fuck it! Plan your exit, star making copies, take time to yourself delegates duties to your kids. If he manages the finances like mine when you go to the super market ask for cash back and star taking $20 and save it . Don’t show him the receipt. This is my motto if they have money for the slut it is not bad to take “our” money back. fucktard!

  • Yeah, NO! Stay in the relationship? Which is to probably keep having sex with this person? Absolutely not! You are already at risk for an STD, or an array of them. Why risk it further?

    Stupid fucking Reconciliation Industrial Complex.

  • This is one of my favorite CL posts!

    “Did not recognize danger”..these are the words that leaped out to me today.

    I had systematically learned to ignore danger with XH because I believed I was safe. We talk about spackle here. But I think this is something entirely different. It is part of the mindfuck. The smoke we smell in our burning house is not ours because the fire is so well hidden.

    Much of my recovery has involved, without having the exact words for this until now, updating and resetting my danger awareness codes..

    • Yes, but my subconscious knew I was not safe with him; the fight or flight mode had been simmering for at least a decade. I wish I’d paid more attention to it.

      • good point, tempest. i had been with XH for 27 years, so i thought my state anxiety was trait anxiety. it went to zero once he was out of my marital bed. i read a post once about this and it clicked. out of sociopathic danger = reduced anxiety.

        what still gets me are the hundreds of straight faced lies that i did not detect. that is what i want to reconfigure in my brain. my lie detector

        • I know, Chumpette. It’s hard to forgive ourselves for not connecting the dots. The one thing that helped was a friend saying, “Of course if a smart person sets out to deceive you, he/she will be successful.” They are masters at it. We could no sooner beat them at deception than a weekend chess player could be Kasparov.

        • “out of sociopathic danger = reduced anxiety” ? Chumpette, I’ve been diagnosed with pathological anxiety during my burnout. At the time, I thought the cause was my work. My partner was not sleeping with anyone else yet. But now that I think of it, he was already engaged in regular Skype conversations with future OW#1. And he had bouts of anger. He would suddenly and violently scratch his head.
          I will research what you just wrote, because I consider my anxiety to be a debilitating character trait. It comes and goes. But it hurts. Maybe it’s only a reaction to his shitty behavior….

            • Thanks Datdamwuf. I just got the book Gift of Fear. I have Why Does He do that but I haven’t read it yet. I am a self help book freak now. ha!

            • Yes Datdamwuf! The Gift of Fear is one of my go-to books. Another one is Women Who Love Psychopaths by Sandra Brown – who also has the Safe Relationships Magazine Website. Last, but certainly not least: Chump Lady’s Guide To Infidelity. CL’s book inspired me get off the fence, and to grab my fear and wrestle it to the ground (and put my booted foot on it’s MF neck).

              • Boudica Reborn, I have those books also. Wonderful information and also the website. I wish I had them when I was dealing with the ex. It has been many years ago and this site. I knew after the first Dday the I was done with the marriage but of course the ex promised me everything and nothing came true. Then came other Ddays. They don’t change. Well the Owife has to deal with it. Just a matter of time; however, I have this feeling he is cheating on her now. Not my circus, not my monkeys right?

                Still amazing books and the podcast that on that site also.

  • This is exactly what I needed today. Lastnight I spoke to my lawyer to finalize some loose ends with the divorce and then I’ll be able to file. Then serve. I struggled lastnight and hopium highs had me in hysterics. I’m as scared as shit and had to force myself to hold back tears on my way in to work this morning. I am depressed and lonely and emotional and anti-social. Could not sleep very well so I sedated. The pain wave has hit me and it is a natural part of the human condition. But I will hold to the faith that what I’m doing is right. And I find peace in the fact that I can walk away without questioning myself. As difficult as it is to do so, it is too late to turn back now. The cheater’s in our lives should have never done what they did. Bottom line – it just should never ever have happened. You cannot reason with a liar. Cut your losses and move on! The sooner the better, for your sake and sanity.

    • You are very brave, Chumpednomore! You are doing the right thing. Hang in there and stay strong!

    • ChumpedNoMore–You are mighty, and making the right decision. Your feelings of grief and anger and hope are going to surface every now and again, especially after major steps forward. Do whatever it takes to ride them out–post here or in forums, pizza binge, go for a run, punch the pillow, anything to channel those feelings elsewhere.

      • I talked to a counselor for myself after D-day and he said “Sometimes doing the right thing feels uncomfortable”. That stuck with me going through with the divorce proceedings.

  • I don’t know about you, but I thought “he would NEH-VER cheat on me. NEVER!”


    Turns out, you really don’t know these people at all, do you. Get legal protection immediately. You’re depending on a liar and a cheater to have your best interests at heart.

    • Me too. He never had a girlfriend until his mid-twenties, so much that his family thought he was homosexual. Low sex drive. Never looked at women.
      But the Internet has a lot of opportunities for men with little social skills. They virtually make love with dozens of women, until a hungry one meets them for real.
      His mother was even more suprised than me.

      • ChumpFromF, I had that same comment from the ex’s family. They thought he was gay also because he never had any girlfriends and never really dated. When the internet came about I found many things he was doing on there myself. Very shocking and very dark and extremely frightening when I found these things.

        Still today I am shocked he cheated and the games he played. The person that he presented to me was not his real self. It was a mask. He did have very odd behavior and I did had many red flags but I spackled the hell out of it. Now after many years since the divorce and the splitting up I can see what he really is. This has been with the help of CL, reading many books about PD, and websites and asking professionals in this field. Also listening to podcast I posted above. That was the major foundation of my healing process.

  • In my experience, there a two important things that can get in the way of being decisive about ending a relationship.

    1. If you dont actually get a d-day, just feel instinctively that things are off, but you cannot prove it to yourself. Does it make sense to revert to marriage detective work to find evidence? I did this, it is painful and can become a habit which robs you of your trust in future relationships.

    2. All the accumulated possessions and sentimental crap…the task of sorting and physically claiming it all can be overwhelming. It can seem impossible to actually make the break to freedom. This is why I chose the radical approach, left with two suitcases, and let Ex and Schmoopie clean up and sell my grandmother’s antiques. You know what? They didn’t get what they thought they would for it all. And my grandma is probably driving the karma bus!

    I agree that lining up ducks and protecting finances is key – I did the important things – but it is also important to be able to detach sentimentally from a lifetime of self-image, social connections, and pseudo froendships. Sometimes it requires a lot of pain before the decision to leave it all behind is compelling.

    • To add to Marci’s great list, two things that makes the decision to leave difficult (for parents) are the questions of how much time one will lose with his or her children and the question of how endangered one’s children will be by the separation and divorce. I worried that by not being allowed to watch my young children while they were with scary other parent, they might be hurt. Thus, one reason I stayed in a horrible marriage was the desire to physically protect my children. (I could not provide enough compelling evidence to the Court to get full physical custody of my children nor get supervised visitation when they were with scary parent.) In short,I thought of myself as a human shield. Gridlock ended when my STBX filed for divorce. He was finally tired enough of being shackled to me to file.

      I’m still scared that my children will be hurt while they’re with their father and miss them, sometimes terribly, while they are gone. As STBX lives across the street from me, I sometimes see the lights in my children’s other home on when I come home or leave home. I wonder what my children are doing, what they’re thinking, what they’re feeling. Although I am quite busy, I hurt thinking about the fact that, although they are only a few yards away during their father’s custodial time and I have committed no crime, I can neither see them nor hug them.

  • “Just work harder to align your heart to his”, said the head of Women’s Ministeries at my then- church (friends of us both) AFTER I showed her the texts (of course she knew who it was). “You can trust him now”, was her other reply – assuming that, now the affair was outed, he would naturally fall back into line.

    After I left and relocated, I went to a faith-based Pastorial Counselor. After hearing the ENTIRE story, he wanted to focus on getting me to forgive my STBX, along the line of “everyone makes mistakes”. If I hadn’t already left Mr. Cluster B. Cheaterpants, this Counselor would have tried to get me to chase Unicorns.

    What is it with Couselors in the church? I know of only two butt-kicking church Psychologists whom I admire. Unfortunately, one is retired, and the other is two hours away, and has a full client schedule (though he was gracious enough to talk with me once, and told me my that the up-coming divorce was “the most loving thing [for me] that could happen, because your husband is exceedingly pathological”).

    I have since had a psychological evaluation with a regular Psychologist, who diagnosed me with PTSD (no big surprise), and have scheduled therapy with someone (not-faith based), who specializes in the condition, along with relational abuse, AND spent a couple of years in the system, working with the abusers (and got a good look at how their minds work) before she got fed up with them, and turned her skills and compassion to private practice, helping abuse victims.

    After the first D-day, if I had immediately started lining up my ducks, and not pitched my tent in the dark valley of my husband’s false remorse, there may be less trauma that I am now getting help for. I urge those still on the fence: get out as soon as you can and file. Ignore the well-intended but naive advice. Just. Get. Out.

    • To “align your heart with his”! Doesn’t that require that a cheater actually has a heart to begin with?

      • Heh-heh Roberta! That may be why I was having such a struggle….Hard as I tried, I couldn’t find the damn thing – much less align with it!

  • For my fellow chumps, I give you my advice. Kelli’s guide to navigating through the beginning. Before I knew I was even “separated” (I came home to him just not home one day after a fight), the STBX had done the following:

    1. Had free consultations with the top 3 lawyers that I probably would have ultimately chosen to use for my divorce. Why? Well, if he has a consultation with them, they can’t represent me, because they have already consulted with the enemy.

    2. Opened a new bank account and changed his direct deposit to go into the new account. Why? So me, the SAHM wouldn’t have access to the money or have access to the locations where he uses his debit card. Look at the places where the cheaters use their debit cards, fellow chumps. Lots of good info to be found.

    3. Took all of the important papers out of our fireproof important paper box–my birth certificate, my college diplomas, my social security card, my retirement plan info, along with all of the birth certificates and social security cards for the children. Why he wanted my diploma from my BD in general studies from LSU I still haven’t figured out. It was a $30,000 bar tab… I digress….

    The best infidelity advice I got was to put a GPS tracker on his vehicle, not because I care where he goes with the hoes, but I do care where he goes with my children. And, a GPS tracker, when you go through a PI, is admissible in court! It also records everything that the on-board computer thingy records, so you know how fast he’s going, if he buckles the seat belt, etc. Worth the money!

    Also, go to the doctor and get a full STD screening. My parting gift was HPV, which resulted in squamous cell carcinoma in-situ of the cervix. Cervical cancer. I am all clear a year later, but there was absolutely nothing pleasant about the experience. I’m glad I was checked early, because mine was very aggressive, and I had no symptoms.

    Finally, do something every single day that makes you happy. You’ve earned it! If it’s a glass of wine or a cupcake or a pedicure or some other simple pleasure. Do something that makes you smile every single day. It helps. Believe me, it helps.

    Finally, remember that it is illegal to hit the cheater over the head with a baseball bat. It is not, however, illegal to fantasize about it. I spent many evenings drinking a glass of wine and picturing the beautiful moment when I went all A-Rod on STBX’s melon head. It was GLORIOUS!

    I do advise to keep that particular fantasy to yourself. You start describing blood spatter patterns to people not going through the early days of chumpdom, and they start planning an intervention. Just saying.

    Big hugs! Y’all are awesome!

    • Excellent post, Kelli. My STBX did many of the same things yours did. Many of the naive public seem to think that the things we describe are things that happen only in the movies or rarely happen. Unfortunately, these events and the perpetrators are more common than most people think.

      I agree that it is wise to spoil oneself a bit regularly to the extent possible, legal, and healthy. If you’ve been a chump, you deserve that tender loving care and are overdue for it!

      I also agree that it’s wise to keep the revenge fantasies to oneself. I think that they are completely justified and normal, but based on personal experience, I believe that most people who haven’t been through the nightmare of chumpdom don’t understand and will start planning an intervention.

      • Thank you!

        When CL asked me to write my story, I wrote everything out, and re-read it. I shook my head because I knew there was no way in hell anyone would believe it all.

        2 pregnant OW? Check! Financial abuse? Check! 18 months and no child support? Check! 2 contempt of court filings? Yep! Court-ordered custody specialist recommending him only having supervised visitation for a few hours and absolutely no overnight visits? Yes ma’am!

        I admit it. I drank the reconciliation Kool-aid for a bit. But, I was a basket case. I could not live life that way.

        It’s challenging. Yes, I have to wipe all of the noses and take off to go to every doctor visit. But, I also get every “I love you, mommy! You take the best care of me!”

        Yes, I’m the taxi, but I also get to be the first one to see the newest ballet move that my girls learned this week (Butterfly Wings was this week).

        It’s so easy to focus on the negative crap. But for me at least, and this totally could be the Wellbutrin talking, but for me, when I started actively looking for the silver linings, things started getting better.

        I also gave myself permission to eat ice cream for dinner. Helps to offset the whole “having to pay a mortgage” thing…

        Look for reasons to reward yourself. I showered! That means it’s Cookie:30! It helps. Little rewards. Big rewards. Just treat yourself. You’re worth it!!!!

    • This is why I didn’t follow the RIC rule of “expose expose expose”. I knew if I tipped my hand he would shift money around (he was already hiding it), change his direct deposit account, and maybe get a lawyer and file first, thereby forcing me to get a lawyer, which I could not afford, and start the whole process before I was ready. Not to mention spreading lies before I could tell my side of the story. I’m not sure why they think there is wisdom behind this advice. If it is successful in ending an affair, then that relationship wasn’t going to last much longer anyway and they’ll just move on to the next one. If it’s a long term affair, they just take it further underground. All they do is hone their skills.

      The RIC, counselors, pastors, idiots at HuffPo, and the majority of infidelity blogs and save your marriage websites fail to understand the real nature of a cheater, and the reality of infidelity. Though it is painful to face and difficult to put into action, at least we at CN are living the truth.

  • This “wait for 6-12 months” is also the piece of advice I despise the most and think is so destructive. I’ve seen it said and pushed in so many other places, especially whenever someone is smart enough and upset enough to make their decision. Then RIC sweeps in to tell them to wait at least 6 months to 1 year. So dangerous when the chumps were doing so well.

    I say, separate as soon as you can. You kick him out or you leave, whatever works best. As soon as you can. And you can figure out the details and what you want permanently on your own much faster than with him continuing his mindf*ckery.

    I decided to file and filed in one day. (Sadly not for a good while after dday.) you can still have plenty of time to not move forward if you don’t want to after you file. But my cheater, like many others, seemed determined to keep reminding me who he was and how awful he made our marriage. So even though I thought I’d wait a while. I filed, then I moved out, then I decided to go no contact (thanks to chump nation), and the next morning after I went no contact, I realized that I wanted him served before I got to work. I want it done.

    At every point of these decisions, I’m happier and happier. Staying w him post dday was the true soulcrushing, std-risking, hard part, this divorce thing is much much better. Infinitely better. Even though I have so much less money. I also have such fewer tears and I have tons more smiling and laughing.

  • My ex got the worst marriage advice from two people. First was the counselor that his Catholic employer has on staff to help workers with any mental distress they might be feeling. He went there under the guise, I guess, that work was getting to be very stressful. But, really, he was looking for the go-ahead to have an affair without guilt. The woman told him, “You can leave your wife and not leave your kids.” So, he took that as a license. Later, he confessed, he felt a little misled when it was revealed that she did not have any kids of her own, and was married to a guy who did have at least one child. I guess he wondered how she knew enough about the relationship between a parent and their child to give him good advice. And, really, regardless of her parental status, not-too-deep down, he must have known she was full of shit with her cavalier attitude about breaking up a family over some aggressive, cheap downgrade who happened along. And that he had nobody to blame for his choices but himself.
    Careful what you wish for, eh? Then again, you don’t need permission to bail on your family–you’re going to do what you’re going to do. So it’s all on him.

    Next was the thrice-married and divorced friend from childhood, who expressed dismay to The Coward that he and I were parting ways. I guess he said that our marriage and home life had shown him that it was possible to be happily betrothed to one person for your whole life. He’d been warmly happy for us, even if marital longevity hadn’t been his thing. Apparently he recommended that The Coward not divorce, and instead, just go visit a “massage” parlor from time to time–like he does!–to have his frustrations rubbed out. You see, “friend,” has a bit of an Asian fetish. (My ex, not so much.) And I guess sex slavery and viral illnesses are no barriers to a good time–he readily endorses this! In fact, friend now lives in Asia himself–what a peach. And he speaks with great authority and wisdom. I’m glad I know the truth about him and am no longer dazzled by his flash. He’s an ass, full of shit. And a terrible friend.

    • “Next was the thrice-married and divorced friend from childhood, who expressed dismay to The Coward that he and I were parting ways. I guess he said that our marriage and home life had shown him that it was possible to be happily betrothed to one person for your whole life.”

      This ^^ I can relate to too!

      Mutual friends of my ex told me they were “shocked” when we broke up and he advertised his new slutastic girlfriend the very next day all over social media. Apparently to many of the mutual friends, we looked like “true soul mates” in a solid relationship. I realize now, that this was entirely due to all of the work I did to make the relationship work while my lazy, cheating ex just enjoyed himself and said something remotely loving or chivalrous in front of his buddies once in a blue moon. It worked because I sacrificed my health, my interests, my time, my sanity to cook, support, clean up after, encourage, and love the empty human vessel next to me.

      Never again!!!!!!

  • Boudica Reborn, totally agree with just getting the Hell out of the situation! File and be done! Hindsight is 20/20 and I wasted so much time on the idiot! He had no intentions of ever reconciling in reality. I now realize that everything he did was aimed at fleecing me out of anything he could! If I had it to do over again I would have immediately kicked his ass out along with all his crap and hauled him and Schmoopie into court to gut them publicly! I won’t complain though cause I came out of divorce in a far better situation than I could have dreamed. I also know I gave my Ex every opportunity to be a decent human and he kicked me in the teeth each time then let Schmoopie have a cheap shot at me! I’m just grateful that each day now is all mine and I no longer have to deal with the mentally disordered!

    • I’m so sorry you had to go through so much hell. You’re right, being away from the crazy is so much more peaceful. And the ability to seize the day and make it your own? Priceless!

  • You just have to wonder, WHY on earth would anyone advise another person to stay with a lying, cheating whore. It doesn’t even make sense! I guess the same people who think getting together with a known, lying cheater is a good idea. Can’t wrap my head around that one.

  • Agreed this is the worst possible advice. I was checking out last night thanks to a chump who posted here yesterday. There was a column from a health provider about the impact of stress on the body over a long period of time—adrenal gland fatigue, weight gain, thyroid issues, and hormone imbalance to name a few.

    My jaw dropped-I suffer thyroid issues that were diagnosed in the midst of living through some of the most stressful times with my cheating ex. My health rapidly declined. It’s taken awhile to heal physically (as well as emotionally of course), but 1 year and 4 months out and counting, I am so much healthier than I was before. The impact of a toxic relationship on the body, even when you don’t see or realize how toxic it is, is terrible. I only wish I’d realized this 3 years ago.

    Get out, get out, get out! For your sanity, for you safety and for your health!!!!!

  • “Suck it up, Buttercup. Your house is on fire…” “Fear has you by the shirt-tails? Wrestle that motherfucker to the ground.”

    This is my favorite part too. It’s like the bitch slap we need to stop being fearful of the unknown and face it like a champ. Easier said than done, but I did it and so can you!

  • No bad advice but oh how I wish I’d taken my half of the money in our joint account. He took it all.

    Please folks, get to the bank first.

    • good advice Lina!! and you can often do it over the phone, chumps! at least in my state..

      I still do not know how I did half the things I did with Dday shock. but at 2am when I couldn’t fall asleep that night I called and transferred half of our savings into a separate account. he was furious. he even said….”Chumpette, this proves what I have always said – you don’t really know me”. he intended it as blame shifting, of course. I did not reply. i let it hang in the air there. noose-like.

      I still recall my shaky voice while transferring the money. I told the banker dude I had just discovered my husband’s affair. he said the first kindness offered to me, in a matter of fact but sweet tone, so I pay it forward now to every chump who is not free yet: “Hang in will get better.”

      And like Lina says, do transfer the money before cheater does!

      • Good for you Chumpette! That money would have paid a good chunk of my legal fees.

        Those random acts of kindness mean so much. I was just at 7-11 getting a soda. I’ve gotten to know the co-owner there well. She saw I was having a bad day and didn’t charge me for the soda. It made me cry. Especially when I thought of how ex resented buying me just a 79 cent soda at the end.

  • Spot on! Freeze all accounts(i didn’t) because if they will fuck you over sexually, physically, mentally, and emotionally, be assured they will fuck you financially. You get one shot to secure your future.

    • Most definitely there are certain steps that need to be taken in a certain order so you don’t screw up directly after finding out! The bank first and any other truly liquid assets first before you even make the appointment for the lawyer. Where I’m at, it can be considered nearly as bad as a theft if a bank transaction like that shows up anytime near the visit to retain a lawyer! But my argument is a joint account is a joint account! I didn’t agree to pay for a hotel room in Florida so he could screw his whore for three days to be paid out of the household fund!! But he did!

  • I tell people, LEAVE and FILE, figure out custody and visitation, all of that, even if you DO think you want to try to reconcile. Because that is boundary setting, and if your cheater is truly remorseful (hey, they must exist …somewhere ….) and really values you and wants you back, they will do the required work WHILE separated and in the process of divorcing. And if they don’t do the required work? Well, then you know, right?

    If you really do have a unicorn, you can cancel the divorce, or re-marry (with a post-nup, right??). But you do it from safe ground, and from self-respect. And you give a VERY clear message to the cheater about what you will and will not accept.

    ‘Cause yah, my cheater considered that my following all that RIC advice, being patient, forgiving, reconciling easily after Affair #1, all that meant he could cheat again when he felt like it, ’cause I’d take him back again. Didn’t work out that well for him, but I sure wish I’d left the first time.

    • Even if you have a unicorn, there is probably a better match out there for you.

      Just like it is a truism that they always affair down, it is a truism that a chump always has married down….

  • Thanks again for this excellent post! I wish I had found this site a year ago because just as you said……”They would never leave you for the affair partner (and go to marriage counseling to throw you off).
    They sure as hell would and may be already. People who will fuck you over with an affair generally have no compunction to fuck you over a multitude of other ways, especially financially. You’re dealing with entitled uber-beings who’ve demonstrated that the rules don’t apply to them. People who have already lied to you quite easily. You really want to take their word for it?”

    That is EXACTLY what he did. After about 7 months of counseling and me doing the “pick me dance” because I was too afraid to be alone, guess what……he moved in with the AP and left me a letter on the table while I was at work. AND…..because we never married, I am out thousands of dollars that I will never see. I helped him buy two cars, paid for airline tickets to vacations, along with food, utilities ….. the list goes on. BUT….I’m rid of the narc and my life is so much better!!! It was painful to get to this stage, but amazing how I can look in the mirror everyday and smile again. Dating a nice man too….there IS life after 14 years of living with narc abuse, lying, cheating, stealing……..YAY for us!!!

  • Sarbear

    HE continued to expose YOU by having multiple partners despite agreeing to reconciling. The blame is on him not you. You trusted, he lied.

  • When my ex ‘disclosed’ his cheating to me in counseling. I was told that I needed to understand and realize that he was a sex addict and was hurting form a traumatic childhood. The birth our son had ‘triggered’ something in my ex. The therapist said that I seemed to focus too much on our 10 month old son and not give much attention to my ex, and I was too controlling. I didn’t allow him to buy a surf board or motorcycle when we had just had a son and I quit my job to be a SAHM.
    During that first session the therapist gave us homework to come up with a boundaries list that we would share at our next session. One week later, I show up with my boundaries list and Captain Ass, doesn’t have his. So the therapist says that since Captain Ass doesn’t have his boundary list complete we won’t discuss or enforce boundaries that week. Um what?? I was also pressured to not involve his command (he’s military) when he wouldn’t provide me with any money and to ‘not make things difficult for him’. This was after he cleaned out the savings and checking and then told borrow money from my parents to move home.

  • This is exactly the crap advice I got when my marriage blew up. Our counselor told us to separate – indefinitely! Until something changed. Not wanting to believe what was happening, I put up with this awful advice for two weeks and guess what my cheater did? She kept cheating! My first instinct was to dump the crap out of her, but my professional marriage counselor confused me. So besides being a sucker already, I was convinced to be a sucker for a bit longer. Talk about insult to injury. Advice like this serves to further injure the faithful spouse.

    I was told:

    “What if it takes time for her to realize her mistake (singular)?”

    “You don’t know what’s going on in her heart.”

    “Right now, she is being tormented by guilt and shame, I guarantee!”

    Well, I wasn’t sure how much affair sex one has to have to bring them to a point where they have no choice but to repent. Oh wait that’s never! But I did know what was going on in her heart, that was obvious and a conscience was not a part of it. It was entitlement and self-gratification. If it feels good do it, no matter who has to pay. I’m not sure why these so called MC’s refuse to see the elephant in the room. How many times have they seen the same situation and gave the same crappy advice? How many more before they realize they are further injuring the faithful spouse? Guilt and shame? Hardly. My ex felt so guilty and shameful that she moved in with her mom just so she can continue her affair unchecked, and she didn’t care who knew, all while her mother was still paying off our wedding.

    But the biggest line of crock has got to be “You don’t know what’s going on in a persons heart.” Of course you do. You can see it. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. Same is true for a person’s behavior. You don’t betray your spouse because you have the heart of Mother Theresa. You don’t rob a little old lady because underneath it all you’re really really benevolent. So you CAN tell what is in a person’s heart by what they say and do. Even if they really do have underlying issues, the fact that they are sticking a knife in you should be enough to know it’s time some mental MMA.

    By the way, love the cartoon Tracy. Best one yet. Love the coloring job.

    • Michael, profit motive is a big factor for marriage counselors giving this advice. If they tell you what you should realky do, they have less repeat business.

    • “Right now, she is being tormented by guilt and shame, I guarantee!”
      The awful MC I saw said the exact same thing.
      Me: You REALLY believe they are tormented by guilt and shame ?
      The MC: Oh, I see so many people in my office, I guarantee you they feel shame, of course !
      Me: Even the cheaters say that when you see them alone ?
      MC: Yes ! You won’t believe how many tell me, oh I love my wife so much ! Why don’t you accept that it’s possible to love more than one person ? You like cherries, and you like strawberries, don’t you ? [Her EXACT words]
      I did not buy it. In my late teenage years and early twenties, right after leaving the parents, I had no boundaries and life was a game, I did a lot of stupid things. Leaving a boyfriend for another was common for everyone, and I remember exactly how it felt. There was no real love, just a crush, and a lot of entitlement. No way did we care about the person we left. What I believe, is that cheaters did not evolve in their minds. They do not understand that while we get older, we get wiser, we become responsible, we evolve from the fleeting excitement to something more stable, mature and comfortable, we care for the other person, we cherish and protect and we enjoy it. They are left at the stage of excitement. And they really don’t care.

      • I read allot about being able to love two people at the same time crap from infidelity quacks all over the internet. Why stop there? Why not love 3, 4, 10 people at the same time? And what if those people each loved 10 people? Hey, lets not fault anyone because feelings are justified. If I agreed to something than feel like I shouldn’t have agreed, that should be reason enough for me to back out. Quacks!

        • What those turds fail to realise, is that even IF that advice were correct and you could love more than one person – you’re spreading out 100% of effort among several people, rather than devoting ALL your time and worth to one particular person. Its disrespectful as shit to be given any less than 100% effort.

        • No cheater will allow you to have an affair partner. It will ignite their narcissistic rage. That’s what ‘s so hilarious and sad about them.

  • This is an easy one. The worst advice I got was from my cheating husband at the first Dday (there were only 2).
    His advice was to give him another chance.
    Worst. Advice. Ever.

  • One of my absolute favorite chump lady article and cartoons. I posted a link to her article in the old infidelity forums I used to frequent. New chumps need this important advice.

    This is not the time to wait and see, this is the time to take action. Cheaters never play fair and chumps need to act accordingly. Pay attention newbies. This is really some of the best advice CL can give. Treat infidelity as if the very house you are in is on fire. Get out now. Ask questions after you’ve spoken to a lawyer!

    • Cheaterssuck…when I read your post and so many others I keep getting whacked in the head!! THANK YOU. Your energy is saving me. I am still in the first stage of filing for divorce- -I know there will be more shit, but every day I feel my self esteem ever slowly coming back and I finally see I deserve a better life!! Thanks 🙂

  • I agree, JJ. Any person, man or woman who tolerates this disrespect needs help. I completely understand the fear causing hesitation or the fact thzt we love them causing it. But, eventually, to be happy, I think you have to excise these folks from your life.

  • The day my ex told me he wanted a divorce was the day I figured out he had a side piece fuck. I knew too that he was going to screw me over big time (and his kids too!) because each year together he just grew more and more disengaged and entitled. Grumpy, checked out, absent, hell he wasn’t even a good dad. Entitled to spend money as he saw fit, entitled to vacation alone, entitled to be a class A jerk with me, but with everyone else he was “trying-to-win-the-academy-award-Special.” He had been screwing his skank (I was clueless) and messing with our finances for two years by then (pulling money out in equity was a pattern as was spending money out, oh and he also had access to our daughter’s and son’s savings accounts which he stole) and was coming “undone.” We had endured four family crises within two years so you can bet I spackled. I had all kinds of excuses for Mr. Wackadoo. But here’s the thing: I was MIGHTY when the chips were down. Him, not so much. Crap life skills on top of crap life choices. Scorched earth doesn’t even begin to describe our last four years together. Two before Dday and the two after it took me to get a divorce and move away. And yeah that small family court with their woman in free legal aid was just as mind bendingly fucked because they knew and worked with that fucktard. I am just thankful he didn’t pull a Scott Peterson. Best decision I ever made was to allow those consequences. I can definitely see the humor in him marrying his AP. Whole new world there. Lol. No partner is worth loving after infidelity, IMHO. I never bought into the whole reconcile thing, when you think of the lengths Cheaters go to pursue strange at the cost of authentic love then you realize you are better off without toxic. There was nothing worth saving by that point and I chose not to waste another minute of my life on disordered (he certainly did NOT wish to save our marriage, let alone participate in it). Game over. My life is better now. Pure. I live authentically and spend time with people who share my values.

  • I am that woman you are talking about newchumpatl, 27 years old married for six. My ex husband has an entire sleeve of new testament tattoos, went to school for a while for theology. I will never understand why he decided to have a 9 month affair with a 45 year old married woman from his job, but the alcoholism, emotional abuse, and finally the affair is what made me decide to divorce him. The last nine months have been hell, multiple email addresses because I block them, begging for forgiveness, but then brings his affair partner to restaurants I used to work at, so old friends text me and tell me he is still with her. I found out he has had two cell phones….. all I can chalk it up to is that he is a disordered freak, who happened to be a fantastic actor.

  • My country is not familiar with post-traumatic disorder. So I don’t think consulting would be useful.
    I would like to know if any of you has this symptom, and if it is part of PTD somehow.

    I am having weird dreams, very violent, and I wake up in sweat.
    For example, last night, I dreamt my cheater lived on top of a building and had a huge terrace with a panoramic view. There were students laughing and partying, there were demonic Russian women dressed in costumes doing various circus acts, and there was a very evil character who performed surgery on bodies to transform them into part human – part animal beings, to prove that they could live without a head, with dog limbs, etc.
    I was visiting, and felt injustice because he lived in such a lively place, while I was in a sad empty home.
    The evil character wanted to drain a substance out of my body, it was my turn, so I pretended to accept it, and I fled down the stairs, I threw a bottle of bad perfume in an open room, and ran down as fast as I could, there were trash everywhere in those complicated stairs, and I found myself in front of a closed gate… and woke up

    • ChumpFromF,

      I had PTSD and I had loads of nightmares about the ex. That is very normal for people that are dealing with PTSD.

      If you cannot get consulting in your country there are so really great on-line sites that can help you. I know a few that deal with Narcissistic Abuse and PSTD. If you like I can refer some to you? Also there are some really great books on this topic also. Also if you become a member of this site there is a discussion area that has loads of information about these topic and you can ask questions and read what others have done.

      It can take time to overcome it but it is very much possible.

      • Hi Beth, yes I am interested. I am struggling to register to this site. I use an old email to post, but I registered with my current email address and never got anything back from registration. I see that some admin sent a message to my old email. But I cannot remember which password I used and did not write it down properly because it failed. I have so many things to deal with.
        In the meantime, if you want to give me a couple of links, I would appreciate. Thank you so much

        • Hi ChumpFromF,

          Maybe sent a email to the site (again) and even to CL and to let them know you are having some issues trying to recall your password. Let them know what happen and it can be corrected. This stuff happens to me all of the time.

          Hugs to you. I fully understand how busy and mental things can be with all of this mess with the cheater can be. I have been many years out and it does take time. Remember to be kind to yourself ok and breath.

          Ok to help you out I would highly recommend That is the place that had that radio blog I posted dealing with the Cluster B relationship cycle. Let me give you the contact page you can email them to gain more information:

          Also there is loads information on that site and Sandra Brown wrote an awesome book dealing with these PD. I have it and I cannot say enough how helpful for me in my healing process.

          and this site also (I read some good things from her via her books):

          Both do provide counselling (of course there is a fee for it).

          Also I highly recommend for you to look into doing some type of exercise something you enjoy. Also look into doing yoga and look into meditation. All of that has helped me also. Also journaling can help you during your healing process. I think most everyone now calls it blogging if it is via the computer. Also this wonderful site is a safe place for you. We want you here. We know and fully understand EVERYTHING you are dealing with. Remember most of all you are human and it takes time to heal. Take all the time you need for this healing process. Sending you all the love and many hugs you need. Remember also most of all you are MIGHTY and we believe in you!!!!!

          If you need any other places just let me know.

          If you need any additional information and I just it on this post let me know and I am here for you. I am here to support you! Also if I don’t have the answer I will try my best to find it for you.

          • and you are most welcome dear! hugs again. I know it is hard to believe it now but it will and does get so much better. It really does!!!!!

            • *correction (my typing and my brain doesn’t work at the same speed at times aka I am Miss Typo here)

              *If you need any additional information and I miss it on this post and you see me commenting on CL’s current one just ask me ask and I will help you. Sometimes I don’t check the last one and just move on to her current one. I hope that makes sense.

        • Hi ChumpfromF,

          I posted some information. It is waiting for the ok to post it due to me posting some other site links. Hopefully it come up soon. I just wanted to let you know.

            • You are most welcome ChumpFromF. If you need anything more just let me know. Sending you some much needed hugs.

    • Dreams are sometimes symbolic in nature or your body’s way to process stuff. The locked gate sounds to me like your subconscious is trying to figure out how to open that gate to escape the crazy.
      Now you just have to find the key (or just kick the door in to get it open – your brain’s way of using cheat codes in a dream :D)

  • Yep great advise from my dear sister…” A person can be in love with two people at once, and you know what he’s like he needs your full attention , he needs it, and now you have the baby he doesn’t have your full attention, so you need to show your the better one than OW , cause you are better’. Guess what I did as first time mother of a five onto old bub, and wife of 7 yrs….? I did a huge pick me dance, and then got another thorn in my side when our second chd was born…. And did another pick

  • From my Dad, who saw my ex-wife with her AP at a restaurant 3 months prior to D-Day#1 but never had the balls to tell me, “Don’t hire a private investigator. They are too expensive.” THANKS DAD!!!

    • Now that is really sad. I hope you are no longer talking to your Dad. That sounds like something my family would do and they did do in a way. That is pure evil!!!!! I am so sorry ffght67.

  • Such a great article. Trying to understand and digest the impact of infidelity is tough enough without the “experts” telling you to give it time. It’s traumatic and should be treated as such. (Thank you.)

  • For,anyone that ignores this advice, who tries to reconcile; do yourself at least one favor, phone interview Marriage Counselors and ask them “why did you go into this field” listen to the answer carefully. You need to stay away from MCs who think “saving” the marriage is the only sign of their success. They will say anything to keep you with the cheater, much to your detriment

  • Worst advice I ever got…. ‘ you dont need a lawyer’
    You need all the good legal advice you can get. There are plenty of free clinics that are offered thru the local family courts and legal aid. Do your homework… And do some more. Do not rely on your lawyer knowing what is best for you and your family. There are some really crappy lawyers out there. I was fortunate to find one that was willing to work with me to help me prepare my case. He would step in if it went past the initial hearing. I went in pro se… under the guidance of a lawyer. I went on consults which were far cheaper than having him file things and getting my paperwork together. He told me what I needed to do … All in all about two thousand which he gave me back half because I was able to have the case moved forward into an emergency hearing. I was lucky. I was very lucky that I had an empathetic judge. He was also impressed that I was exceptionally prepared( settlement in hand, child custody plan completed, copies for Idiot and copies for the court) and unemotional. I allowed Idiot to speak first andhe burried himself. I took notes during the hearing and made sure I addressed every lie and embellishment.
    Do as much foot work as you can. I research child custody cases. Divorce settlemnts and the language of the courts. There are great resources on how to prepare yourself for court. My lawyer told me to imagine the worst case scenario that I could live with and aim a little higher. I did. I was very lucky to have an empathetic judge.
    Use the time that your spouse is out screwing schmoopie to gather information and research. This is a time you want them to be out. Be angry enough not to arouse suspiscion and sad enough that they think u are powerless. Go for the Academy Award. Remember to erase your history and /or do it on a computer that they dont have access to. I kept all my paper work at a friends. I photocopied while Idiot was ‘at work’
    Dont get emotional and KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE PRIZE ( i was willing to walk away from my house but not my child) Idiots assumption was I was going for money and the house. I kept a short paragraph of my objectives… And I re read it like a mantra. I kept focused.
    I was awarded full physical custody. I maintained my home. He assumed his debt and me my own. I am lucky.
    I do have to deal with a disorder fuck for 5 more years… But it on my terms now.

  • There is a blog by a man who has been mourning the loss of his AP for over a year. He admits he would leave his wife in a heartbeat if the AP came back. He is in MC and lying through his teeth. His wife has no clue he cheated.
    I am of the belief that marriage counseling is like alchemy where the person tries to make gold out of dross. It ain’t happening.

  • “you know how men are.” “think of the children.” I live in a culture where men are expected to have an outside woman and surprise surprise women are expected to be faithful. I always knew I was worth more but the children argument got me some mileage. Cause I would have left at 8 months pregnant.

  • Good job SarBear. You are awesome! I too lived in the same home suspecting infidelity, he denying it, he turning into the worst sort of monster, me taking it, absolutely dumbfounded. I did not want to disrupt my children’s lives, had a beautiful home, so many things to be grateful for except for the giant narcissistic abuser in the room. He shamed me into not snooping, we divorced, then I found out a few months later. It helped explain things but oh the betrayal!

    Congratulations on your new place!

  • I am thankful the advice I received echoed what I had already done. I left the POS cheating asshole in the gutter where he belongs the day I discovered his cheating and confronted him.

    We had been together 12 years. We weren’t married, didn’t have children, a mortgage or a joint bank account so immediate separation was easy and ESSENTIAL!!

    He started packing his shit up that day. Was it hard. Hell yes!!! Was it worth it? Abso-fucking-loutely!!!

    I start a new life aged 43. Was I scared shitless? Hell yes!! I was in a dark place after we broke up. The pain and the reality hit me like a muther fucker. I’d lost both parents in the space of three years and now my world as I’d known it had been blown to smithereens by the person I’d loved and shared my life with. Today I am lucky to be alive. Less than two weeks after we broke up I overdosed on anti depressants and sleeping tablets and spent two days in hospital out of it. Discovering CL early on was a life saver.

    Now, ten months on I see leaving him that day was the best decision I made. Time is not a healer, it’s what you do with that time that matters. I’ve focussed my energy on healing and taking care of myself. You have to love and appreciate yourself to get through it. I’m cheater free and life feels good.

  • I am happy to report that I have a very strong sister who told me to kick his ass out and then get proof! Portect myself! Open my own bank account that he couldn’t touch! My family was behind me all the way and so were my friends. Everyone was just like me- we were all trying to figure out what the hell happened but the husband we all THOUGHT I had. But I wasted no time in that ruminating. I acted and I saved myself so much pain and sorrow. He only ever sorry that “I got hurt”. F you dude.

    After becoming a member of the church I had been visiting during all this time, they accepted me 100%. I was told that infidelity was an acceptable reason to divorce as it’s stated in the Bible. My STBXH broke one of the 10 covenants and I was made free to walk away. My church showed me love and grace when I so desperately needed it.

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