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UBT: “You don’t love me the way I need to be loved”

prettyToday’s Universal Bullshit Translator request comes from Keep on Thriving:

Hey, CL, can we analyze this: “You don’t love/value me the way I need to be loved/valued”?

What on earth is this supposed to mean? We love them the best we can, yet it’s not the way they’re supposed to be loved? I didn’t know there was a specific criteria to follow in order for them to feel loved. In that case, we’re all doing it wrong!

Why yes, KoT, you WERE doing it all wrong. You’re supposed to be a smorgasbord of pussy. Didn’t you get the memo? Your inability to replicate yourself into an array of exciting options is your fault. Work on that.

So what does “You don’t love/value me the way I need to be loved/valued” mean?

Well, on the face of it, coming from cheaters, it’s projection. They’re cheating on you. So if anyone is failing to love someone meaningfully here, it’s them. Hey Bozo, you spent the rent on hookers. I’m not feeling valued.

It’s also a nice bit of blameshifting. They had to do the Bad Thing because nobody loved them right. Not their parents. Not their third grade teacher. Not you. And so life has been one sad sausage search for meaning. Can you fault someone who just wants love?

But also tangled up in this Loving the Cheater All Wrong bullshit is the notion of unconditional love. However much you loved them, and however imperfectly, you failed to love unconditionally. You probably had ideas of reciprocity, respect, and fidelity. Those are conditions, KoT. In that respect, you did fail to love your cheater the way he wants to be loved — you failed to be his chump.

Rock on with your unloveable self.

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  • Yup…yup…. “You are responsible for how I feel about you” was the line I got. Oh….and how do I feel about you when your female Co worker who is 30 tells me how funny you are. I said to her…my husband may be alot of things..but funny isn’t one of them…funny looking maybe…but not funny. Apparently he used to stand in her office doorway and may her laugh. Hmmmmm….when confronted he denied it. I then confronted his bosses about the affair after I had proof…. it was denied….but she left the company. No matter he had moved on to another 30 year old.
    So….am I responsible that you couldn’t keep your Penis in your pants too?

  • Yep, even if we hadn’t treated then with love and respect, the correct course of action woulda been to work on the relationship. If that didn’t work, then leave the relationship, taking any financial hit you had to, spend time alone, take time to think about what went wrong then move on. Cheaters just want to have their cake and eat it too with zero effort and introspection on their part.

  • Such a performance based perspective. He should have figured out if he was loved “right” when he was still dating you. That’s the point of dating.

    • To the disordered I think the first thing they “fall in love with” is the sex and our great bodies. But after kids, and bills, and real life these idiots want the fantasy all the time. After twenty eight years together my ex just wanted new (pussy) and “someone he was attracted to” –not her personality but her ability to jump into bed with him and declare her undying devotion, ah, “twu luv.” Wish those Cheaters the best!

  • My stbx told me once how Amy gave Terry (friends of ours) a BJ everyday. I didn’t do that, so I obviously didn’t love him enough.

    • “Sure, hon, if you return the favor every day, we can talk about that.”

      would probably shut him down faster than you can say “lockjaw.”

    • Anyone who falls into that trap, of a BJ every day, or a massage, or whatever it happens to be, is just setting themselves up! That cannot be sustained, no way. Also, it obviously makes one party a Taker, and the other a Giver, and is NOT FAIR. When my marriage was good, many moons ago, the sex was very even, and fun. The Pick Me! days were when I was giving him everything I could think of daily, not that it made anything better between us! It just made me tired and resentful, ugh, bad memories.

      • Not Only did i not do it often enough, i was supposed to also be enthusiastically thrilled each and every time. And would it kill me to wake him up in the middle of the night giving him one? DO NOT miss those days. I hope his new wife loves him enough.

        • Yes, we were to adore and fawn over our narc’s in every single way… any perceived flaws or imperfections on our part equaled automatic failure and was their ammo to continue to belittle and devalue us. I’m with you. logo65 – Do.Not.Miss.At.All

        • Over and out

          I was supposed to enthusiastically initiate sex. He evidently didn’t know how. When he had his prostate surgery I nursed him through it. He wet the bed. He needed a penile implant. I was always there for him. He had to have another surgery as it failed. I went over a year without sex. He never touched me, nothing. After the second surgery when he could finally use his pencil dick he informed me he was dating that day. He was having an affair with a teacher who thought we were in the process if a divirce. She dumped him. Supposedly I RUINED it for him. That was the last time. He never stopped dating. It was always my fault. Screw these assholes. As soon as I switch jobs he will no longer have my health insurance. Yup! Payback is a bitch. Hope whore has health benefits. Lol. Let her pay.

    • Oh, yes… I heard that, too. Something was terribly wrong with me because everybody else’s wives were happy and eager members of the BJ Club. Plus I heard how I was missing out on it’s multitude of health benefits…

      • OMG O & O – me too! “I need more semen in my diet” for any ‘ailment’ I may have been experiencing (including an ingown toenail). What a dumbass.

        • about being told like I was ” 70% of all French women have anal sex”!!.Well I’ll never look at Celine doin with such innocent eyes again!!

          • Ya – I heard some of the stupid statistics too. And you just look at them and say “And???????’ Why the fuck do I care if 70% of all French women have anal sex? What’s really your point there asshole?

            And maybe Celine is one of the other 30%! Who knows….(and who really cares?)

            • “Why would I need anal sex? You’re the arsehole here, not me”
              But that would probably earn contempt.

              • My cheater tried to sodomize me a few times but I wouldn’t allow it ever! He was obsessed with sex, into porn, always looking at women right in front of me the entire marriage, complete obsessed with BJ’s. I’m sure his OW allowed him to sodomize her and she gave many BJ’s to him. That’s the kind of whore he needs. Someone who is willing to be used by him. I did’nt allow that.

    • When exactly did the blow job become the gold standard? My cheating stbxw told me she didn’t like giving oral sex and never did. I enjoyed giving it to her (and she enjoyed it), so I did. NEVER occurred to me that this was a reason to cheat. Of course later she just cut sexual contact entirely.

      • Not real sure ANR, but I was told – AFTER I found out about fuck phone and Yahoo accounts – how I lacked in that area. I didn’t realize I wasn’t meeting his blow job needs until after dday when he told me everything that was wrong with me. Had I only known……

      • These daily blow job people need to stay single and hire a fucking prostitute daily. Even when I was young I would not have done that. The female is probably being “subtly” coerced so he won’t cheat.

        When I was in my twenties I knew a thirty year old who had been married to a guy who demanded sex every single day, for five damn years. No matter what. Sick, period, not interested, it didn’t matter. We were all disgusted by this. Thank God she had divorced him.

      • ANR, You were respectful of your wife and loved her. You didn’t force her to perform sexual acts that she was uncomfortable with. What made the act abject with me was my ex’s total lack of respect and pointed criticism. I believe his addiction to hard-core porn exacerbated things. That one sex act became the central issue and source of his unhappiness. I wasn’t doing it right nor often enough…I heard about it endlessly. Nothing else mattered and it became his justification to seek “love” behind my back while still continuing to have sex with me… It really does a number on your self-esteem to be made to feel “less than” in bed!!

      • Yeah whatever…X-hole RUINED our sex life just like he RUINED the rest of it. He was as selfish in the bedroom as he was out. Always about HIM first. Told him over and over that it wasn’t fun and NOT a turn on to ask me every single night if I “wanted to talk to it”, like some asshole middle school teenager wtf? As much as i loved him and was attracted to him…his juvenile approach was such a turn off. And the ONLY reason I felt he tried to please me in bed was because his EGO needed to know he could still succeed. Such a selfish dick.

  • Clue #1

    Me, “why did you leave your ex?”

    Her, “he wasn’t giving me what I needed.”

    Won’t be falling for that one again.

    • Well, I think that’s a fair statement if he wasn’t giving you respect or faithfulness or safety. But it’s certainly up to each of us to voice our needs and have boundaries.

      It’s the vague “needs” that are the red flag. The ever-moving goal posts of “happiness.”

      • Hold me back!! OMG I ao want to send my stbx an apology:

        ” I was supposed to be a smorgasbord of pussy. Sorry I didn’t get the memo? My inability to replicate myself into an array of exciting options is my fault. I am guilty and I am so sorry AM was hacked, are you feeling loveless, boohoo”

        Great post CL — you always make me laugh at the painful BS. 🙂 🙂 Have a great day chumps!!

      • For sure CL, and that’s what threw me off with her. She use to say things about her ex that made him look like the bad guy. While I don’t know him and his character, I know now that she said what she said to get sympathy from me. It made me feel protective of her then but I know now that she is not the victim but the perpetrator. One of the reasons she left him in the first place was because he wanted an open relationship. In the end, I left her because that’s what she wanted. What the heck right?

        She went from being someone of questionable morals (to put it nicely) to wanting to be a housewife, and then back to being questionable. So yes, that goal post is forever moving.

        • Right on Michael! The sad and/or noble sausages.

          In the early days of our relationship, ex told me he and last GF broke up because she came from an abusive marriage and he didn’t abuse her so she didn’t feel loved (he said it way more convincingly but that’s what it boiled down to).

          Fast forward to after Dday and his story was that his last GF cheated on him…quite a dramatic story he told, I must say. I did not believe this so…

          Therefore, I called her after I got him out of the house to find out if he had actually abused her too but I didn’t tell her that until I asked why they broke up. The truth is that the last GF had kicked him out of her house because he refused to get a job for a year and was living off of her the entire time.

        • Michael–These people have no problems manipulating Chumps’ desire to be kind. My own STBX has a lot of physical complaints. I realized early on that much of these are in his head, but I think they’re no less real to him. I am a very practical person when it comes to physical conditions: do what it takes to get better (medication, diet, exercise) or if it can’t get better, do what it takes to control the condition (medication, diet, exercise, lifestyle accommodations via occupational therapy, etc.). STBX would not do any of that. He’d take to his bed, walk around doubled over, and tell me that he was dying.

          As the years went on, I realized that his extreme reactions were all geared to elicit a single response from me: attention. I was supposed to feel sorry for him and wait on him hand and foot until he miraculously felt better.

          Now I watch as both STBX and OW play the manipulation game on each other. STBX used to complain how I never fed him properly and that I couldn’t cook (we won’t talk about how he used to post pictures of the food I’d cooked on Facebook and brag about how well he ate). OW told him that she’d take care of him. OW is in constant need of being rescued, mostly when STBX decides he needs to focus on his work instead of on her.

          I think that we Chumps need to realize that our empathy and protective feelings are good things, but we need to set boundaries so our kindness isn’t abused.

        • Michael, usually the difference between a disordered person and a non-disordered person when it comes to that sort of talk – is that the healthy person will state something as a mere fact and leave it at that (for example: ”My last husband was abusive” and not get into details). A disordered one will embellish the truth and just be in histrionics and keep going around in circles about it. Its all a sick kibble game.

      • Who among us was loved the way everybody needs to be? With kindness, caring, fidelity and joy? Not one…

        • X-hole’s bullshit story was “everyone has thrown me away!!” Fast forward 8 years….ummmm…yeah…he was PROJECTING for sure and I was being a chump. Little did I know of the brutality of discard I was bound to endure. This is a repeat performance. Almost identical to what he did to his last wife and their 3 kids. Thank God we only have one child, if I was in her shoes and he did this to me with 3 kids (one 5 months old)….my ass would have been on the 5 o’clock news for sure!!!

          Oh how they SUCK!!!

          • My ex discarded her ex for me, then discarded me for her ex and he was chump enough to take her back, even offered her to move in with him right away. I almost feel sorry for that poor bastard. Almost. He’s bound to be discarded again. I’ve read that the second discard can be worse than the first.

            • He is an idiot for sure, no person with any sense at all would subject themselves to such misery a second time. Fuck that shit!

              I am now certain that he discarded his live in gf when he found interest in me, I knew he was unhappy and they were having problems but I had NO involvement with him until he ended it with her and she moved out. Seven years later I find out that he is a fucking pathological liar, his ex wife (super nice ) did NOT throw him away but told him she wanted a divorce because his CHEATING on her was the last straw. The heinous bitch he discarded to start priming me was the AP he had cheated on her with.

              I call his ex wife “my ex wife” lol. We get along fabulously, we go out and meet up to go dancing together and have an awesome time. We have the EXACT same complaints, exact same issues; the lying, the selfishness, the financial issues, the avoiding… and on and on. Her boyfriend was in on our conversation one night, she had me on speaker phone and he said “I swear everything you just said about him is the exact same things that she has said about him and damn near word for word!”

              So ummm yeah….. It’s DEFINITELY not me, or her…. it’s HIM. I avoid him as much as possible. She even told me a year before DDay (when I suspected cheating) “Oh, he’s already gone he just hasn’t left yet.” I stupidly fell for the “croc tears and false promises to attend counseling”, asshole was probably looking for new supply and plotting his escape the whole time.

      • OMG nodancing! I swear these mofos are all the same! My ex said the same shyt! My ex is a Black Widow Spider…..he mates and he kills!

        • I am hoping for the opposite. That when the divorce is final that he goes crying back to Florence and she eventually rips his head off and eats it.

      • Saddam told me most women were afraid of him…I was so blind, I SHOULD have been afraid of him.

      • I fell for that “poor me” thing too. Total wolf in sheep’s clothing play. They say and do whatever they need to get what they want from you, which is temporary ego stroking.

        • Part of my exes thrill with me was to parade me around her family and friends. “Look, I scored me a stable gentleman who wants to marry me! As opposed to that scumbag loser who sold drugs out of his house, bred dogs, and wanted to have an open relationship, who took me to a strip club for a first date. Aren’t I wonderful! Look at me!”

      • Ditto, nodancing. Mine was the victim of so much hurt before me… a poor little betrayed soul… Then along came me.

  • Lol hell yes. The big man was always complaining I didn’t give him enough ‘intimacy’. When we weren’t having sex, I didn’t give him enough intimacy, but I realise now that when we were having sex (and plenty of it, I I thought it was good), I still didn’t give him enough ‘intimacy’. I became so distraught and distressed about what ‘intimacy’ was and why I couldn’t give him enough, no matter how I tried, that I came to believe there was something deeply, fundamentally, emotionally flawed in me that I could not meet his emotional needs.

    These days, of course, I realise that he is just a needy fucker, an emotionless bottomless pit. I could (and did) pour my entire emotional, physical and mental self into his bucket and he would still be empty and he would still need more.

    Needy whinging bitch. I am not your never-ending spring of egos boosting and validation. If you’re that empty inside, then deal with it. Fill yourself up. Or find a cheap menopausal skank to pull your pudding and tell you how awesome you are. Lol.

    • Hahaha….I’m having a very big laugh over here because that’s pretty much how I feel right now. I think we married the same dipshit.

      • The worst thing about all of this is I got nothing from HIM, when I asked for things like his “time” being the most important, telling him I was lonely, he wouldn’t respond at all. Just ignore my pleas, then I found out about OW and the prostitute. What an asshole narc.

          • Yep, there was a period where I was really trying to talk to him about problems and things that I needed and nope, nothing, nada. It was incredibly frustrating but me, being me, didn’t see it for what it was: he simply didn’t give a shit about my needs and as far as he was concerned his needs were the most important thing. And those needs he never told me about. Why? Because they were bullshit and it was obvious if he told me I would have been right there like the faithful idiot I was.

        • Kate50, same thing here. I tried for years to tell him that I felt lonely even though we were in the same house. I asked for attention, gave him examples (just text me and tell me you’re thinking about me, looking forward to the weekend, etc.) and I got crickets. He’d either say you’re so needy, you’re trying to create drama in our relationship or he’d agree to do it and then didn’t. This went on for a number of years. Then, like you, I found out he was a serial cheater – it sure does explain a lot.

          I even told him about 2 years before I discovered the cheating that I was so miserable I wanted a divorce. He said ok initially, then came back a few days later and told me he would try harder, didn’t know why he didn’t treat me better, and how much he loved me. Of course, he did nothing to make things better.

          • Words verses Actions – you learn so much about a person by keeping an eye on these two things.

            • Yes, then when we catch them we get we did’nt meet there needs! Complete LIE! I do trust that he SUCKS, no doubt in my mind now.

            • Same here ByeByeCheater. When I had finally had enough I wanted a divorce as well. He sensed that I wouldn’t eat the shit sandwhiches anymore so he deliberately smoothed things over long enough to “lose his job”, secure the relationship with the OW while ruining us financially. Evil fucktards

          • Preaching to the choir! My ex claimed he had “intimacy” issue bcuz he was sexually abused as a kid. Not saying it wasn’t possible, but he sure had plenty of intimacy for those other whores!

          • At one point he asked what I wanted from him. I said to be part of the family. He tuned out and skipped over my response. He continued his rage with, ” if you want something from me, then you had better be on your hands and knees scrubbing the floor and suck my dick as soon as i walk in the door.” Real respectful-asshole. I could write a book on this shit. I do not think that way and you can not make this stuff up.

        • Yeah, I remember some of that. Never was there discussion about what I might be missing, always about his needs. Funny, that.

          • I sent him this video up north to him back in 2012 in an email. He never responded back to it. Still have it in my archives. The affair with the howorker started back in 2010 I’ve since learned from him this May 2015. Why did’nt I leave back then, I was still at least in my 40’s. 🙁

              • LOL, Over and Out, in 2012 it was a warning, well NOW I really mean it! The words in the song. Going through the divorce now. 😉

      • Wow. Thank you NC Stevie, Nord and all. So good to know others have been through the ‘Not enough intimacy’ mindfuck.

    • Oh god, reminds me of one of my ex’s.
      Long story short: VERY needy – to the point where I felt like I was banging my head against a wall. One example was that he was failing university subjects almost across the board, and whinging to me about it. I remember giving him suggestions (re: study etc) and he’d be like ”Oh no its nothing like that, blah blah”. Maybe if he didn’t spend 8 hours a day stuffing around doing fuck-all around campus, and cavourting with an underage skank online – he might actually pass his subjects. (And yes, he cheated on me with said skank. Fucking bottomless pit)

  • My husband ( divorce was final on Saturday – Yipee ! ) needed absolute adoration and worship, a smorgasbord of pussy and a full time marching band to feel like he was validated.

    What one person is capable of that?

    After long years of feeling unloved, under appreciated and ignored I didn’t run out and fuck somebody else to make myself feel better.

    In any future relationship I will make sure that I don’t settle for crumbs while feeding my partner large servings of cake!

    • Congrats, Lucky on your official freedom!!

      “and a full time marching band”–I laughed out loud. That is exactly what living with these entitled jerks requires; a constant diet of John Philip Souza compositions about how wondrous they are.

    • Woo-Hoo! Way to go Lucky!!!!!!
      I dream of a finalized divorce too!
      So happy for you!

    • You made your own luck! Congrats on making it through the fire. Enjoy your free-to-be new life!

    • Congrats Lucky! I also enjoyed a very hardy laugh out loud moment when I read about your ex’s need for a full time marching band. The ex in my life needed to “be chased” so he could feel loved. The OW (recently promoted to OWife chased him while she was still married so that was a big ego boost for him.

      Perhaps someday he’ll be chased by a bear. I’m sure that would make him feel loved and wanted too!

      • Now I can’t get that scene from Animal House out of my head–where the entire marching band continues to march into a brick wall. Certainly metaphoric for what all of us in the chump marching band did–beat our heads to a pulp against a brick wall.

        • Had to leave a comment on the marching band analogy– in deference to CL, I won’t send the link though it’s a hoot–my ex and downgrade OWife actually had a pal write a story in our upstate NY newspaper about how they hadn’t received a tax bill after they’d paid off their also downgrade house, thus had to pay a penalty, *like normal people do if they don’t pay their bills* Ex is actually quoted as saying the tax bill should’ve been delivered not only along with a marching band but *CHEERLEADERS* Complete with ex and new wifey standing before sad house with arms folded looking indignant, what’s up with the freakin’ cheerleaders?
          Sorry, Mrs. Downgrade, and sorry you can’t afford your current house anymore now that I’m not the ATM and that ex has been fired yet again from prestigious (?) academic position.

    • Congrats Lucky and best wishes as you forge on to Meh! And thanks for the marching band image, the OW looks more and more like a cymbal circus monkey…

      • Thanks Every One!!!
        The weather in the state of Meh is lovely, the drinks have little umbrellas and every song on the radio is a favourite.

        Hoping you all join me soon 🙂

  • The thing is, that a lot of cheaters eventually cheat on their perfect, giving, magical OW/OM, too. So obviously, the perfect, giving, magical OW/OM didn’t know how to love them, either. The only conclusion we can draw is that Cheaters wouldn’t know love if it fell out of the sky, landed on their faces and wiggled.

    They don’t know how to recognize love.
    They don’t know how to return love.
    They don’t know how to deny their pants feelings.

    It’s just another bullshit deflection method, turning the blame back around on the Chump, to make them doubt themselves and scramble to try to be just as perfect, giving and magical as the OW/OM.

  • Best Response would be: “Ok. Why don’t you tell me how I can love you better? What I can do to make you feel valued?”
    Guarantee the answer will be a blank stare.
    IMO – Cheaters don’t think, they do what makes them feel good, they do whatever helps them escape the reality of their lives: aging/stress/confrontation/disappointment/boredom/feeling “stuck” etc. Cheating masks the pain of not loving themselves – but they rationalize their behavior (and many other things in their life) by acting as if it “happened” to them and consequently “not their fault.” So if it’s not their fault……that means someone or something else caused the situation……luckily there is a chump right there to blame….
    So chumps, don’t believe what they tell you – no way you can fix what you didn’t even know was broken!

    Happy Day CN, Love you all.

    • My cheater claims “it happened to him”….he “couldn’t hurt her feelings by saying No”. What about trying “I’m married”? Guess that slipped his mind especially since he didn’t wear his ring.

      • So. Lame. (Your cheater’s response.) I often didn’t wear my wedding ring (although I loved it) because it often snagged on things, but I never thought of cheating on my husband, in spite of handsome opportunities. By cheating, I would have violated my vows and felt as though I violated myself and my image of myself.

        My STBX, while he was engaged to me, told at least one woman that he was engaged, but took off his clothes with this stranger any way. Wish I had found out about this incident one marriage, two kids, and ten years earlier.

        • In the winter I play pool, in the summer I am always outside working on something and my hands tend to swell, not to mention working in dirt and rocks, etc… When I shoot pool, I have a tendancy to squeeze the stick while waiting/contemplating my next shot. (Habit and nerves, I guess). IT WAS MY STBX who told me NOT to wear rings when I play pool so I don’t put dents in my stick. And I too love my rings. So – after I found out about his little fuck phone and Yahoo accounts – and he was doing the blame shift – he made a comment to me about how I never wear my wedding ring! OMG! He knew why I didn’t wear my rings continuously! I wore them anytime we went out (as long as we weren’t playing pool – which in the end seemed like that was all we/he did.)

          I just couldn’t win.

          • He’s lucky you weren’t always wearing your rings, as it may have made that sucker-punch a bit too tempting…

          • I have RA so for over a decade, my fingers were often too swollen for me to wear rings. We had investigated having hinges put on them. They are lovely and I would wear them whenever I could get them on. A few days after D-Day, I could not stomach looking at them so put them away in a drawer and there they have stayed. At six months, he asked if I wear them anymore. I used the joint excuse bc I have awhile to wait before I file. Seriously, is he that stupid? He took his rings off for a week out of pure spite. Not that I cared but he is the cheater, not me. I have to wear gloves when it’s 50 degrees out so barely anyone sees my bare finger. Nobody has asked me about my missing rings in 7 months, bc I don’t think regular people are concerned about my life. He now whines that it is mean and disrespectful. Say what? Yes, Asshat, if I truly loved you, I would ignore your bad behaviour and wear the rings that obviously mean nothing to you.

    • Ding! TiredChump it was indeed a blank stare!
      LOL! Seeing the truth in text, I can laugh at that now.

    • I asked that very question many times, and for 25 years the only answer I ever got was “if you don’t see it you never will”! I only understood after finding CL and CN. Thanks.

      • the ever moving goal post answer to me was “you don’t know me'” – as in i was so dim witted, it was my fault that i didn’t Know Him the way He Needed to be Known.

        turns out he was right!!

        • My ever moving goal post was “I need an attractive wife” to “attractive isn’t just about looks”.

        • Mine screamed that at me upon discovery, I was dumbfounded. I thought he was crazy, turns out he was telling the truth for once in his life. Same here Chumpette, he was right didn’t know him, but I sure do now. Eyes wide open!

        • My cheater said the opposite “you know me” “what I did was not me”, my answer back, No, I don’t know you at all. Crazy making this all is.

    • Yep, blank stares here too. I did ask questions about how I was trying to do the things he asked (I was pick me dancing but didn’t realize it) and he still wasn’t happy. Blank silence. Actually it was almost all blank silence as he couldn’t rarely look me in the eye.

      • we had the same script, Lina. and did the same innocent unknowing pick me performance. cruel idiots, they are.

        • Cowardly cruel idiots.

          I meant to write “he could rarely look me in the eye” rather that “couldn’t rarel”,, but I see you knew exactly what I meant.

    • TiredChump – the problem is also like CL mentioned above: it’s a moving target. I WISH it were as easy as you wrote: What can I do to make you feel valued? It’s just that with the moving target, it wouldn’t matter if we all did exactly what we were told makes them feel loved/wanted/valued. It wasn’t “right,” so it didn’t count. It’s always a losing battle with these douchebags.

      It really is what you said, “Cheating masks the pain of not loving themselves…” But it’s always unresolved because they go to sleep and wake up and look in the mirror at THEMSELVES, and refuse honest, on-going, long-term therapy to love themselves. So, that’s waaaayy too much time alone with someone they hate (themselves), so there’s lots of cheating/lying/deceiving that needs to be done for the distraction.

      Hate to be them. Seriously.

      • My cheating STBX thinks he needs long-term therapy to make him ‘stronger,’ as in recover from all the damage people (his parents, me, etc.) have done to HIM. I told him that he didn’t need to get ‘stronger;’ he was plenty of strength; instead, he needed to get more honest.

    • Yep, that’s what I got from my cheating ex-wife. Of course I got the same answer early in the marriage too.

      I’m an engineer, that’s my flaw. I’m not creative, but I’m really good at implementation. So give me what you want to build and I’ll get it done. If you don’t know, I can’t read your mind.

      When she moved out, and before I figured out what was going on, I was going back and forth between what do I do, and telling her to GTFO.

      I did ask her, what does your ideal marriage look like? Again, never an answer. She did say she would tell me once the divorce was final.

      Ten years later, and she’s still not provided that information. (Not that I really want it, just shows the sort of character we are dealing with here.)

      Finally, when our daughter moved in with me two plus years ago, she was going on and on about something, about how our daughter was feeling and how we needed to do X,Y or Z and see this therapist or whatever I simply told her, and I paraphrase, I don’t trust you. You were asked numerous times while we were married to explain what you wanted, to give examples, etc. You were not honest then, acting as if everything was OK when obviously, it wasn’t as you chose to have an affair and lie about it. You said you would explain why and give me information that you’ve never given. So I simply don’t trust you. If our daughter has a problem, she needs to tell me. If she is intimidated, she needs to tell me. She needs to get over it. Being intimidated by other people isn’t necessarily the other persons fault. Sometimes you need to gather your courage and advocate for what you want.

      Life will be full of intimidating and irritating people. You can’t run from all of them. They might be your boss or your co-workers, or your customers, or anyone.

      If you allow yourself to be steamrolled, then you’ll be steamrolled by people who are not even TRYING to steamroll you.

      If you don’t get what you want and you are not using your words to ask and advocate for it, then how can you blame the other person for your not getting what you want.

      It’s not that my daughter has a big problem with me. It’s that she is still intimidated by me.

      This is probably TL;DC;DR, but for those hanging in there, my nearly 17 year old daughter does have a voice and is learning to use it.

      Not because she’s avoiding strong or difficult people. She’s learning those skills by being in the presence of such people.

      I wonder how many sad sausages (or whatever the female equivalent is) are really that way not because their spouse was so bad to them, but because they didn’t speak up for themselves? Too afraid to ask or advocate for what they wanted. Too willing to blame their spouse because he didn’t read her mind and just know what to do.

      How many heard this answer to the above mentioned questions: “If you loved me, you would know what to do and what I wanted?”

      I guess she never really loved me. It wasn’t like there was bacon and blowjobs every morning for breakfast. I guess she never really loved me nor met my needs.

      The difference is, I asked for bacon and blowjobs 🙂 One had to have ZERO understanding of English in order to claim ignorance of what I wanted 🙂

        • Lol – That really changes your perspective on lodging choices while on vacation, now doesn’t it?

      • I know that a narcissist fully expects you to know what they want with asking. Something to do with the wonderfulness that is them.

    • Tired Chump — i did ask “How can i love you better?” and “What am i doing wrong” “how can i fix it” “what do you need” but like all the other millions of questions i ask him, i got “i dont know” for an answer. for the 12.5 years i was married, i had to be a mind reader, i had to anticipate his wants, desires and needs. he was so terrible at explaining his “feelings” and “emotions” he just did not KNOW how to explain or talk about those things.

      i do think you have a point in Cheaters don’t think, they do what makes them feel good, they do whatever helps them escape the reality of their lives: aging/stress/confrontation/disappointment/boredom/feeling “stuck” etc. Cheating masks the pain of not loving themselves – but they rationalize their behavior (and many other things in their life) by acting as if it “happened” to them and consequently “not their fault.” So if it’s not their fault……that means someone or something else caused the situation……luckily there is a chump right there to blame….

      i am not so sure it is the CHEATING that masks the pain of not loving themselves, but i do know at least in my case that the MOW made him “feel better” about the shitty things he was doing. she was so understanding, supportive and enabling his crappy choices. whereas i was “making him feel bad” and i will own up to doing that. that was one of my mistakes (along with the other mistake of thinking he loved me) ..i was trying to get him to SEE that he was fucking up, but the way i was doing it was counter productive and even disrespectful, i see that now. (i am not making any excuses for his disrespect, just saying there was probably a better way for me to address it). ANYHOW so he felt bad for the things he was doing and was able to talk to MOW because 1) she didnt know the truth behind his stories and 2) she wanted him so she believed his stories and 3) she thinks she can save him and love him better then i did and 4) she has no morals or values and has no issues with taking a man away from his children and wife (who doesnt love him anyway)

      but it started with him talking to her, telling her all his poor me stories, saying how hard he tried (he was working 6 JOBS dontchaknow) and trying to make himself FEEL BETTER for all those nights he wasnt coming home, for spending all his money on God knows what and not paying bills or food or supporting his family, for pushing away his loving supportive wife who was going thru a tough time dealing with the death of her oldest child, for the lying, hiding and sneaking around he was doing. for acting like a bad father and husband….. and his hood rat oompa loompa UNDERSTANDS him so well, she doesnt judge him, she respects him and loves him for what he is.. (GAG)

      in the end, i was left with “You did not treat me right” and his girlfriend (what kind of woman CALLS her boyfriends wife in the first place?) telling me that “you treated him bad” ……………which is the same as the “you did not love him enough”. i know i did the best i could, i loved him even with all his mistakes, faults, FOO issues, dwi, and other self sabotaging ways of his. i gave, and forgave, and bent backwards to make him happy. i made him feel better and made sure to give him periodic ego boosts (and blow jobs). i compromised my standards, morals and values until i couldnt even recognize them anymore. i kept working on fixing my marriage even when he quit trying……..the way it ended was 100% out of my control and 100% in the hood rat oompa loompa MOW control. she dug her claws into my husband and STILL has not let go. i dont think the man even understands WTF hit him. all he knows is i divorced him and i quit chasing after him and this oompa loompa is taking care of him now and not only chasing after him (although i hear she doesnt let him out of her site) but she is chasing away all the big bad meanies who treat him badly….like his children and exwife.

      as long as the OW makes him feel good and enables him to FORGET all the shitty things he did, he will always choose the OW over his wife who knows all the shitty things he did and why, and holds him accountable for them. (we were doing fine up to the point i wanted him to be accountable for the shit he was doing as long as i forgave and forgot we were good)….it doesnt mean that i think it is right. i just know that as long as she makes him “feel good” and lets him drink, he is willing to lose his wife, children and family and everything else. i couldnt live that way. i want more out of life then the next beer bottle and hanging out with people who are just wasting good air and think life is about partying. of course the boys and i are struggling because without him we have half of what we used and it is hard for one person (me) to do it all. but in a way we are actually still living the same as we were (only i had a little bit more money to pay things which helped, and i had a little bit of his time, and man power to help occasionally when he was home and not acting like a pissy bitch) but he is having a good time partying, buying trucks, clothes, giving all those losers hand outs and breezing thru life now that he doesnt have his boring stable wife and 2 children to be responsible for. But I could not live life that way. hopefully someday it will get better.

  • Yup, got several versions of this during false MC. It’s part of the revisionist history/AP comparison. No way you can win.
    A couple of examples in my case:
    I was not supportive enough during ex’s insomnia which last five years (which now I know was his subconscious fighting the double life)
    Sometimes he just wanted to cuddle, don’tchya know (no one stopped you, dude)

    • Oh, ZYX! I was at fault because of mine’s insomnia too. It had nothing to do with his insisting on staying on graveyard shift for over twenty years and his internal body clock was completely f’d up. It was partly my Dad’s fault too because once a week he put shoes on instead of slippers because I was going to take him out for the day.

      That insomnia shit really does a number on someone. He was never the same after going on that shift. I’ve read up on it and it’s not good. Then he’d drink tons of caffeine and energy shots at night. My therapist suspected he was popping speed. Who knows.

      He had to start out on that shift but had many chances to switch to days, but he didn’t want to get up early. I never gave him shit about it despite desperately wanting him to. Everywhere we’d go he was tired and would almost fall asleep at the wheel a more than a few times.

      He’d frequently mention how good it was for me and my Dad to be out of the house. He probably wished us dead.

      • I am a notary! Ha! But I’m laughing imagining sticking his dick in one of those metal notary presses… yowch! Or how about a hole puncher..

        • TheMuse, Wouldn’t he have to sign the notary book first before he got it notarized? He would probably consider it if the result was gaining unlimited access to strange. Cheaters will jump through all kinds of hoops for that.

        • My cheater once told me that his affair partner gave him sex several times a week and then demanded that I (1) immediately sign a document claiming that I would give him half of all our assets and would not contest the division of assets if we got divorce and (2) have the document notarized that day. I told him that I would sign nothing before consulting (legal) counsel.

  • I got –

    “I made myself small for you”

    “I don’t feel extraordinary”

    and, of course, “you don’t love me unconditionally.” Ah, that tired, predictable chestnut of a missive!

    What I never got?

    Trust, reciprocity, faithfulness, integrity, truth, financial fidelity, or any attempt on her part to do anything responsible or productive about her toxic self-loathing.

    • What I never got?

      Trust, reciprocity, faithfulness, integrity, truth, financial fidelity, or any attempt on her part to do anything responsible or productive about her toxic self-loathing.


    • I want written into standard marriage vows that there is NO SUCH THING AS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. Lovely thought if you want to read pie-in-the-sky missives, but I guarantee that if you beat your dog often enough, it will stop “unconditionally” loving you. And if your child, “whom you love unconditionally,” starts sneaking into your bedroom at night and slicing off your fingers and toes one by one, and laughing about it, you’ll probably stop loving them by the time they’ve done this 19 times. It takes more bad behavior to make us stop loving some people (e.g., my kids would have to do a lot more to me than my neighbor to get me to stop loving them), but “unconditional love” is simply a way to say “I’m willing to erase myself so you can get your jollies.”

      • “unconditional love” is simply a way to say “I’m willing to erase myself so you can get your jollies.”
        Exactly Tempest! Hugs!

        • I agree 100%, NOBODY gets completely unconditional love! My daughter, now 14 ys old, has some characteristics of her asshole dad – and she knows it. She can be negative and whiny and randomly rude, and when she loses her temper, really mean. She gets scared that even her brother and I will get too fed up and want nothing more to do with her at some point. We’re working hard on her being better-tempered and more polite (and fortunately she’s a sweet, loving, fun kid most of the time).

          But we made an agreement several years ago, that I would only give up completely on her if she became a serial killer or child abuser. (We also agreed that no matter how awful she gets, while still a minor, I will never send her to live with her dad. I admit I’m tempted, once or twice a year, but I stick by the deal!) Other than that, I will always do my best to love and support her. BUT I will also choose how much time to spend with her, and what kind of support to provide, within my own limits of tolerance, once she’s an adult. And even now, I may chose to take a break from her presence if she’s being too mean. When I send her to her room, she goes.

          She jokes around about this, in a somewhat worried way. When she’s been rude and knows it, she’ll remind me ‘don’t sell me!’.

          • Aw, she sounds like a good kid with a naturally firey temper. Here’s the thing, there are proclivities and there are actualized behaviors. I wasn’t an easy child, and I’m not always an easy person as an adult. I did learn, however, to take responsibility for my own BS. I don’t feel that I have a right to be a jerk, or that you’re obligated to bow to my bad mood. Keep setting boundaries, and I guarantee you, she’ll probably be someone you want to be around by the time she’s 25. The ones who are a problem are people with a stubborn streak who has their bad behavior validated by those around them when they were growing up. Sounds like you’re doing a great job!

            • Exactly. My 16yr old daughter has become a liar and a narcissist like her dad and is choosing to live with him and his 22yr old fun girlfriend. I was fighting to have her stay with me but she’s chosen that and I’m giving up the fight. I will always want what’s best for her but I can’t be near her and her meanness and cruelty anymore. It just too toxic for me and i’ll do better not around it

    • The thing is, if you’re not extraordinary, OTHER PEOPLE won’t make you feel that way. You have to get off your ass and go do something awesome. And the truth that most people don’t want to hear is: 99 percent of non-NPDs go through life without feeling “extraordinary.”

      • I actually feel like everyone is extraordinary! Look at all the amazing Chumps posting here. And, most of us were told that we were nothing so great by our partners, but they were so mistaken! Everybody has something, and can wake up every day loving who they are!
        For those PD people, they can go get the help they need, and do the therapy, and stop blaming others!

      • Frankly, NEEDING to feel ‘extraordinary’ is pathological in itself. Even most people who do extraordinary things don’t feel that way! Frankly, there’s a lot to be said for being average, and having a ‘normal’ life (however we define that – doesn’t have to mean vanilla – but there’s a reason lots of people like vanilla) can be very satisfying. Our culture is really sick, teaching us that everyone is ‘special’ and we can all accomplish anything if we set our minds to it, and we have to live our dream. A lot of people would be much happier if we focussed more on being decent, caring, productive, and getting our satisfactions in our day-to-day, not at the top of poor over-crowded Everest.

        • All excellent points.

          I also got “I resent your success.”

          She now denies saying that (because, well, I guess it’s more fun to gaslight me than it is to actually own your own sh*t like an adult).

          • You know you got some truth there right sephage? When they gaslight us it’s because they told us the truth and don’t want us to remember it.

            • And why do they bother telling us the truth at all? Mine also dropped a few nasty details, but later denied it.

            • No doubt, Kate50. But, because that nugget of truth didn’t fit into her bullshit narrative that I am the sole source of all of her life’s problems, she decided to forget that she’d said it.

              Thanks to her, my daughter and I now have two house rules here:

              1) Always tell the truth, &
              2) Everyone makes mistakes. Don’t blame; make up for your mistakes.

              My daughter understands those rules better than my cheating ex, and certainly better than 99.8% of all cheaters. And she is in the second grade.

        • KarenE, I read an article recently and one paragraph struck home with me and is much along the lines of your comment. (source is ) :

          “Just about everyone enjoys food, sex, shopping, alcohol, and the feeling of being high. That doesn’t mean everyone is addicted to those things. Likewise, all the forms of narcissistic supply I listed above that histrionics, narcissists, and borderlines obsess over are things that all of us enjoy to a degree. Who doesn’t like flattering attention or feeling flawless and idolized or having a devoted mate who won’t abandon them? Yet most of us though don’t compulsively chase these things in irrational, self-sabotaging ways. Most of us haven’t habitually chased ego boosts and relationship commitments to the point where we have a high tolerance to them and need insane amounts just to feel normal. Most of us don’t feel waves of self-loathing, distress, and anxiety if we don’t receive ego boosts or aren’t in a romantic relationship.”

  • ‘ you never loved me the way I needed to be loved’ …. Cheater speak for I am going to find one more way to blame this on you. They have a couple of lines in their arsenal that stops us dead in our tracks…. This is one of them. Nothing buys a cheater time than throwing a grenade full of doubt your way. Toss one of those puppies in there and they run…. Because you will be sitting in a puddle of tears wondering what u did wrong….. Exactly where they what u.

    • “a grenade full of doubt”–brilliant, TheClip. My MFer had a big arsenal of those grenades. I can only hope he sits on one soon.

    • The Clip…Brilliant as always. That is all painfully true and familiar.

      Glad to be back in the trenches reading and commenting again. My son and I had to move, thanks to X-holeband his financial avoidance so I’ve been busy and not able tobrelaxcand participate too much for ghe past few months. Still read CL’s post and comments everyday but it was difficult navigating everything from my phone.

  • OMG, I totally got this. He said he always felt like he loved me MORE.. I didn’t put out enough, I didn’t hug him enough, not enough oral sex, paid too much attention to the kids, wasn’t sparkly and spontaneous enough, I didn’t buy him the right presents… my suckage goes on and on.

    Gee, 20 years of partnership including two children 8 years apart- two losses in between…. support emotionally, financially, physically. Through money issues, recessions, loss of parents, loss of pregnancies, raising children… and I didn’t love him enough? What was I doing all those years being loyal to him? I don’t recall eating bon bons. I was supporting him, wasn’t I? Making our home, taking care of our children, working a job? Was that love?

    He actually TOLD me once that doing things around the house, cooking, cleaning, taking care of kids, laundry.. those were “responsibilities” not love. That those things didn’t show him LOVE. OMG. But then a few days later, he complained that I never made his favorite meals!!! So which is it pal, is cooking love or not? I am SO confused?

    I am thinking he was fucking that trashy MOWhore and just wanted to make excuses.

    Now he’s traveling all over, probably with Whore (if she’s still around) because he needs perpetual distraction. Apparently, hanging in the “bachelor pad” isn’t fun enough.. so now he’s taking spontaneous trips.. missing his days with his kids and leaving me with the work. Oh but I didn’t love him enough?

    Such bullshit!

    • These cheaters project, they get it backwards on purpose I have to think– He meant HE didn’t love YOU enough, HE didn’t do enough with the house and kids, HE didn’t make you feel loved and cherished– but with these sociopaths it’s a hilarious game where everything they said YOU did wrong is really what they fucked up. What’s that old rhyme we said as kids? I’m rubber and you’re glue…..

      • Yep….THIS ^^^^^^^^ every word of it!!

        Used to shake my head trying to figure out where the sam hell he got all the vile crap he spewed at me and now I know from himself. All projection.

  • Dear chumps, is getting to meh full of forward then backward motion? I am still trying to get child support but I have to say that recently I resolved to just absolutely drop it and realized that I could not move forward with all the drama he was creating as I fight for my child financially. I realized that his bringing AP to court, his refusal and manipulation of the proceedings by not submitting discovery for what is now one year (yes, the judge kept giving him continuances, 30 days, 30 days) that it was keeping me stuck, keeping me focused on them, e.g., how much fun he is having, how great his new life is. So I decided to send him one final letter which I wrote and saved as a draft in my email telling him he can basically live with all of his consequences, e.g., lying, destroying our family, robbing my daughter of her rightful financial support, etc., etc. and that I was done fighting for child support.

    HOWEVER, he finally does mail me his discovery and when I began to look at the amounts in his checking and savings, his obvious vacations, his liquor and eating out tab, I have a relapse. I think, well, shit, that’s a lot of money. Then I learn he is just last week on vacation with AP (who he lives with). So I begin to shift my views: that asshole has money, plenty to go on vacations, but won’t pay what he promised to pay (you see chumps, I know this is an old story for many of you), but he promised to split our daughter’s expenses at divorce and despite my detailed line by line bills of what things actually cost, he pays one third of it, is late, does not pay, pays when he wants). It was because of these sporadic and inconsistent payments that the judge thinks he is “making an effort.” Don’t get me started on Utah culture and judges.

    I am a wreck because I truly just want to move on, to stop focusing on what he is not giving me for our child but I cannot seem to feel anything but hurt and angry that he would punish me by not paying child support. So, then I get upset and refocused on the asshole all over again and I am filled with thoughts again of how much he has moved on, how he discarded me for AP who is his dream woman, and ultimately just in a place of beating myself up, e.g., “get over it, move on.” Why am I so stuck and should I let go of this whole fight for child support? I am over one year out and it’s obvious he has moved on, but me? Still reeling.

    • If there is an arrearage, get the STATE to enforce it. All you need is your court order. You fill out paperwork to show he hasn’t paid. It’s tedious, but not nearly as tedious as going to court. Let the state be the heavy. You can also appeal for more CS through the state. Shame on that judge for granting all those extensions!

      I did what you’re doing with my son’s father — expected him to fulfill his legal obligations. And he didn’t. And I accommodated his deadbeat shit for a long time. (He’s still a dead beat, but at least there is a record). I finally got the state to enforce it. Best thing I ever did. They’ll dock his pay, his tax return, take his license, his passport.

      This isn’t your money to give away. It belongs to your kid. Hell yes you should fight for this. Be meh about the rest, but you never stop caring when someone fucks with your kid. That part is meh-proof.

      • Seriously, you can screw me over but don’t f*ck with the kids. Ever.
        And thanks for translating this thoroughly as always, CL. Must have missed this back in the textbook.
        What chapter was “Poor Excuses of Projection” again?

      • Listen to CL. Go to your child support agency. It may take a while for anything to happen, since they work on the cases involving people who receive government assistance first.

    • I’m in the same boat, ChumpB. X has a nice inheritance that was divorce proof by design. He is still unemployed and decides how much he can “afford” to pay for our kids’ expenses, like sports and school.

      Not a thing I can do about it unless I want to spin the wheel at court which would cost me thousands.

      They suck.

      • Listen to CL on this child support issue. Most states will report the failure to pay child support to the credit bureaus. It ruins their credit, creates a record with the state of non payment and they will impose consequences such as loss of drivers license, summoning him to court and jail time if necessary. They can have a judge order payments directly from his paycheck by his payroll dept. And there is not a thing old deadbeat can do about it. Once his arrearage is part of the state system it never goes away until it is paid by your Ex! That money is for your child! Fight for the child’s right to get it! These assholes divorce the spouse not the kids! They might seem confused but set these deadbeats straight! Don’t give up!

          • Thank you so much everyone. I will contact the state as CL says, however, the problem is ex-narc bullied me into submitting docs that showed showed fairly equal income which finalized his monthly payment at $12/month. He failed to submit half of his other income. He said, “Let’s submit our incomes to make them look equal because I promise I will pay and I promise to split expenses.” As the abused chump I was, I agreed because I BELIEVED him. I know, I know, what was I thinking? All of this recent court stuff is Request to Modify Child Support in order to GET legitimate support but he gets so many breaks in court it is unbelievable. He pays a little so the judge has said, “Well, he’s making an effort.” I will go to the state but I am afraid I have no legal case because it is not in the divorce decree. This process is hell and I stand by my advice to those newly chumped, which CL has stated repeatedly, “Get a lawyer, get a fair and reasonable settlement, don’t sign off emotionally.”

            His abuse, especially in that last year, and affair going on the last 4, was so bad, I really did feel so beaten down at that time, I just signed anything to be done. Now, I feel so bad about that.

            • So sorry ChumpB, your ex is a monster! Keep going with your child support claim, it is not your money or him, it is your kid’s. My STBX is trying the same approach and if it is any solace you sharing your story will make me fight harder. Keep all documentation, even if at the end of the day it might be to show your kid that you did your best on his behalf. (((ChumpB)))

              • Oh Chumptitude, you are the best! How can these pigs do this? I love what everyone said to support me. I WILL fight for it for my child.

      • Check with your lawyer to see if you can sue him not only for child support in arrears, but the full legal costs to retrieve it. If you have adequate documentation of his not paying what he should, this should be a done deal. Incurring extra costs (preferably through wage garnishment) should rectify his tardy payments.

        • My family (kids and I), too, are experiencing the pain of not receiving the financial support that we deserve. In spite of representation by a law office that now has gotten nearly $100K from me (for a divorce case that has not even gone to trial yet, a year since filing) against cheating, criminal STBX who went pro per (represents himself), I lost in court. I won’t go into the details of my case, but I, the primary physical custodian now, in essence, have to return support money to him and have had my support cut to virtually nothing. Judge also did not award Attorneys’ Fees to compensate me for my legal defense against STBX’s allegations of felonies. STBX’s attorney told mine that STBX had to accuse me of these felonies to win physical custody of the kids. (STBX tried to bar me from ever seeing our kids when he filed for divorce.)

          STBX is trying to block my move to my parents’ home in a nearby city where the kids and I could survive (I could get a job that pays the bills, and my expenses would be manageable). STBX demands that I work while he stay home and even manages to convince the judge that judge should demand I return to full-time work although STBX refuses to pay half of daycare expense. By working without help paying for daycare, I lose money! I am afraid of eviction and bankruptcy as I can’t afford to continue living in the expensive city where I now reside and might not be able to move with my children to a place I can work and afford to live due to legal constraints. STBX, who can see my home from his, harasses me daily by calling the police and child protective services to report me for various crimes that I have never committed. He is still trying, indirectly, to take physical custody from me. He lies to our children and the public, telling them that I initiated the divorce and took him to court and he loves me. The police and judge do virtually everything he wants them to do. The icing on the cake is my in-law telling me that I should reconcile with this drug and prostitute using abuser–‘nothing a (psychotropic) pill and a little forgiveness and psychotherapy can’t fix!’ (There is no pill that will stop an abuser from abusing, I forgave STBX for all of his monstrous actions a long time ago, and STBX just used psychotherapy to abuse me in front of an audience.) I am afraid that the only way I can escape the abuse by the criminal I married is by dying. Considering how much STBX is wearing me down, death may come to me sooner than I would have otherwise anticipated.

          • RSW–on what basis did the judge say you had to return support? Can you get a therapist who saw him/the two of you together to testify about his Cluster B traits? Do you have documentation of his adultery & other excesses (for lack of a better word)? Your X is unspeakable.

            (p.s. I wrote a letter for another chump to help her case to move to another state. I can give you details if you email me: [email protected])

          • So sorry to hear about your craptastic STBX RSW! I am sending you huge hugs, what he is having you go through is freaking cruel and so infuriating! As you write about your story I keep imagining your STBX as a sad big-eyed cymbal playing hyperactive circus monkey that is screaming “look at me, look at me!”

            Are you keeping a file of his action and contradictions? As he is escalating his abuse, he is bound to become inconsistent in his claims to you, the police, the judge, and the public.

            My own circus monkey became inconsistent pretty quickly, and I used email records to demonstrate to my lawyer and importantly to his lawyer too that what he told his lawyer was false. It took a single instance to show that he is using lying as a problem solving strategy. Every time he tries, I go back to it, saying “here we go again, remember the…” The monkey pouts about it, his eyes bulge out even more, but I don’t care, as every time it happens, his lawyer, my lawyer and me get him back in line.

            It so sucks that you have to live so close to him, I live in the same neighborhood from mine, and have arrange my schedule so I only see him at drop off a few times a week.

            Given your STBX’s frequent calls to the police and child protection services, can you get a custody evaluator to intervene? Can you get your lawyer to read “what does he do this?” by Lundy Bancroft and if needed contact him for a consultation?

            Also, can you secure some part-time online work for now so you can get some income while being home with your kids? or might have some opportunities that might help you make money without having to arrange for childcare.


            • Hi Chumptitude,
              My STBX’s actions are extremely inconsistent, and these glaring inconsistencies appear in court (and everywhere else). The judge either doesn’t see the inconsistencies or chooses not to consider them in her decisions.

              I should look into the part-time online work until I can secure a full-time job that pays all the bills.


              • It sucks balls when judges don’t consider evidence in their job, so sorry RSW!

                Can you find another single mom through your kids’ school? I have started swapping kids time with another single mother from my kid’s school, that has helped a lot in terms of protecting my work time without spending more money on childcare.

                Can you also focus as much energy as possible on your job search? Are you working with a career coach? Working with one has helped me save money on lawyers because it demonstrate my ability and willingness to work! Keep applying for jobs, or start an online new training program to demonstrate that you are seeking ways to become as financially independent as possible. These two things have been really validating for me. The more time I spend studying for my new online training program, the less I think about my divorce. Ditto for the time I spend on past and present volunteer yet resume building activities.

                It is very validating to realize how much I have done despite the unreasonable demands on my time by my raging cymbal-playing eye-bulging STBX monkey.


    • It sucks but the sooner you see the EX for what he is — selfish, self-absorbed, manipulative, caring for no one but himself, vengeful, immature…you fill in the blanks….. — the better. If you wait for the EX to do the right thing, you might be a great great great great grandmother.

      Follow CL’s advice here. Set up a way that makes it easier for yourself.

      Also, I think you are being too hard on yourself. Yes, you will have set backs. Yes, the road to healing isn’t quick or painless — but you are mighty! It takes as long as it takes!

      It has taken me a long time to get to ‘meh’.


  • Ugh to the unconditional love routine, which I got in spades in my first marriage and had me chasing my tail for, oh, a dozen years at least. All my “demands” on family life were so unreasonable, so hurtful, so unloving. Rules like, honoring our wedding vows? Like, having some discipline and structure for our kids? Like, fulfilling our personal responsibilities when it came to paying bills on time and keeping the household from falling apart? Jeez, yeah, I was a monster. Why couldn’t we just love each other the way we are? And accept each other without being judgmental? And let each other take our joy where we find it?

    Oh, I dunno, because we’re not 15 years old and living in an episode of *The Love Boat*?

    These cheaters and their unconditional love are not grown ups. They shouldn’t be allowed to vote, own property, and definitely not marry or have children. Let them frolic in the romantic sandbox of Craigslist Classifies and Ashley Madison bot-talk, but keep them the hell away from me and those I love.

    • Baaahhhh – “Frolic in the romantic sandbox of Craigslist Classified and Ashley Madison bot-talk.” LMAO nomar 🙂

    • Oh yeah. The old unconditional love manipulation trick to make you feel like you’re the REAL bad guy. SA pulled that one. I told him, “Yeah, sure, that unconditional love I lack. Okay, I’m going to fuck all your friends and especially the ones you hate and I expect you to take me back. Oh, and while we are back together I’m going to continue to fuck all your friends and your father, too!”

      “Now, I expect you to love me UNCONDITIONALLY even if I do this, right? I mean, we are talking unconditional love. You DO know how to love unconditionally, right?”


      • Weirdly, I think mine would have been okay with this. Like it would have made her bullet proof for her cheating. The tough think for her would have been loving me “unconditionally” if I stopped giving her kibbles. I think that would’ve gone over like a lead balloon filled with rocks and rusty horseshoes.

        • Mine tried to convince me to screw other people after D-day so that we’d be even, and I’d be able to forgive him. (though turns out “even” would have been screwing every male in the Presidential cabinet).

          • Creeeeee-peeeeee. These folks are porn fetish sites come to life. For years before my first D-day, my ex-wife made comments about how, if I cheated on her, she could probably forgive me, knowing that for me cheating was a deal killer. Embedded in those comments was a taunt that she was more loving than of me than I was of her.

            Yeah. Right. She was more loving. As proved by my reaction to her cheating.

            So done with the ex’s mind-fuckery.

            • Nomar: Get a bucket; here’s a direct quote from my X for the UBT:

              “Unlike you, I can forgive anything in someone I love. I take after my mother in that way. Sure, I bitch and I complain, but I am always able to forgive. So, no matter how mean you are to me, how despicable your remarks in emails, whether you have had a year long affair behind my back, I really don’t care. In that way, my love is unconditional.”

              What puzzled me was how his love was unconditional, and yet my failures were the cause of him seeking solace elsewhere? Some of life’s mysteries can never be known….

              • What puzzled me was how his love was unconditional, and yet my failures were the cause of him seeking solace elsewhere? Some of life’s mysteries can never be known….

                That Tempest THAT ^^^^^^ !!!

              • “What puzzled me was how his love was unconditional, and yet my failures were the cause of him seeking solace elsewhere?”

                Tempest, this one is simple–if you’ve lived a couple of decades with a self-centered sociopath. Let me explain: clearly your love is so inferior and effed up that it even has the power to ruin his clearly superior love for you. Basically, your love for him is like dog vomit on the back seat of the Mercedes that is his love for you. We clear now?

                These people never own their shit.

    • Nomar- your posts make me laugh.. “Love Boat”.. gold!!! Pay bills, order, household running, kids have discipline.. OH you big MEANIE!!!

  • Bottomlessits of need. Had the option to divorce or at least try to rectify things. They expect clairvoyance and do not understand reciprocity.
    I bet that most of us were not all that thrilled at the treatment we were getting.
    The most confounding thing about dealing with one of these selfish, disordered assholes is that they never , ever look at their own behavior-how they were even more lacking and how it was their behavior that may heve caused the betrayed to stop trying to always please themand make them feel special.
    I just got sick of always having to do most of the work. I got sick of the fact that my needs or desires were never, ever considered. I got sick of suggesting counseling or trying to discuss things only to be ignored.
    Yet, funny, I did not go cheating.
    These cheaters are all entitled assholes and will never change.

    • At the end when my ex was complaining about “not supporting him enough,” I threw up my hands and said “I give up.” It felt to me like I’d sacrificed everything and it still wasn’t enough. He was always moving his happiness finish line, I think what made him happiest was pursuing the ever elusive goal of being happy. In the end he told me “I just saw something I liked better.” That’s probably the truth…he thought he’d finally found the thing that would make him happy.

      • At least Dracula only sucks out part of your blood, leaving you still alive. Cheaters want all 10 pints.

      • YES I got to the point where I was asking, “What is this imaginary magical thing that you think I possess that I am withholding from you???!” Because I gave everything I had to give, and it was never good enough by a mile. Believe me, if I had known or been shown what it was he wanted, I would have given it to him! Then. Not now.

  • He tried the “you don’t love me the way I need to be loved”.

    What he got in return was along the lines of “You are right, I now realize that we don’t share the same definition of married monogamy. I wish you the best in finding someone who shares your values.”

    His answer? Crickets, lovely crickets…

  • Truthfully, when confronted with inane bullshit like this, the UBT in my brain just shuts the hell down. Doesn’t even attempt to process. The brain of the average cheater and ap is about on a level with a preteen girl and that is just too much. They think sex equals love, basically. They think they should be in some obsessive state about some other average person all the time. They can’t be seen in anything other than a flattering light. Gotta depend on their crotch as a barometer of the relationship. Eeew.

  • Standard marriage vows are conditions, if you look at the words, that’s what they are.

    “Will you love him, comfort him, honor, and keep him in sickness and in health, and forsaking all others, be faithful to him as long as you both shall live?”

    See that “forsaking all others” part, yeah, that one, it’s a condition of the contract.
    Can they not read? Can they not use a dictionary?
    Or can they just pretend it doesn’t apply to them?

      • I stupidly agreed to writing our own vows. Everyone loved his. I didn’t notice fidelity wasn’t explicitly mentioned until much later. Assumed that was, like, standard? Otherwise why get married? F*er was planning it right from the start.

        • That reminds me of sitting with friends years ago as they wrote their vows. The groom wanted to promise to love her etc. with all of his heart…..”for the foreseeable future”! We all shouted him down.

  • X never left a reason, he just left. When I asked “why” to anything, he would answer with a question, such as “Are you kidding me?” He never answered anything straight up. To this day, he responds to every request for help with our kids with more questions.

    The biggest question I have from all of it is why did I ever think he was a catch?

    • Chutes, one day during the long, grinding three year divorce process my son and I were having dinner and he was telling me about trying to borrow X’s truck so he could move to his new place. As usual X would give son no clear answer, kept changing the time and location to pick up the truck, then hemmed and hawed over whether or not he could do it at all. At one point son looked at him in exasperation and said, “Dad, can you just give me a straight answer?!?” And X looked at him and said, “I’ve never given anyone a straight answer in my life.”

      I think that was the only time he ever told the truth to any of us.

  • I remember promising a lot of things at the marriage ceremony, but providing one way gratuitous sexual favors was not one of them. Also — I don’t think that stuff ever is provided without some expectation of reciprocity. Prostitutes sure expect to get paid. OW sure expect “stuff” for providing access to the goodies. Why is the wife supposed to add another chore to her list of daily duties — “Frank is on his way home, be sure to pick some place that is soft on my knees while I show him my “love”.” Yeah — mark that chore off the list. How romantic is that?

    I am sure it must be one of my crazy youth memories, as my children tell me “Mom, that stuff happened back in the Olden Days,” but does anyone remember Courting? Romance? Dates? Do you remember Romeo showing up clean from the shower and shave, smelling nice and looking like he made an effort to dress for the occasion? Actually having a conversation with you, and making an effort to pick a place you liked to eat, or a movie you wanted to see? I still remember those times, and I am sure all those things put me in a romantic mood, and that some enjoyable reciprocal sex happened when those other things happened FIRST. Yeah, those were the good times.

    Expectations of one sided, it’s all about him sex? Not a turn on for me. So sorry. I am such a joy killer.

  • Yep, yep, yep & yep!! X-hole has repeated MULTIPLE times “it’s because we didn’t feel loved at home.” “We” meaning cheater pants himself AND the morally deficient married with three boys whore he was cheating with.

    “I didn’t feel loved, I didn’t feel appreciated, I didn’t feel wanted…” It’s all bullshit. CL is absolutely right….it’s the “conditions” they can’t handle so they seek out a new supply that doesn’t (YET) place any conditions or expectations on their behavior. They want ZERO accountability. Assholes.

    This weekend was the one year anniversary of DDay and I am SO grateful for CL and all if Chump Nation for lighting the path for me to find myself again, to help me solve the puzzle and put the pieces in the right places and figure this shit show out!!

    Grateful to be a chump instead of the cheater. Fuck em!

    • All about them.. narcissism!!! My STBX’s whore didn’t have any kids.. I wonder how she reconciles blowing up their family because “she deserved to be happy”. I never understood how someone could truly be happy trouncing all over the people they were supposed to love and protect.. and how a schmoopie could live with herself knowing now a family is missing a father partly because of her shitty behavior.

      I hope it eats them from the inside out! But it probably won’t because in order for it to eat them, they have to have a conscience, and if they can cheat, lie, cover up, they clearly don’t have one.

      Chump is left holding the bag but at least we have our dignity.

      • She has no conscience either, they are both disordered. The bitch’s divorce isn’t even finalized and asshole planned a trip with his kids (including our son) to go down to her farm. Not a fucking chance in hell I would allow that. My son’s life (as he knew it) was destroyed, his father just LEFT, then he lost his home (asshole wouldn’t pay the rent/utilities) and along with his home he lost his school and friends…. all while SHE got to fuck her poor chump of a hubby over but keep everything perfect for HER boys because her daddy owned their farm….. and he thinks I am letting him take MY son there??? Hell to the FUCK NO!!

        Texted me Friday “Thanks. I really hope you are doing good.” I wanted to tell him to go fuck himself but wouldn’t give him the satisfaction so I said “I’ll survive. Thanks.”

        Saying they “SUCK” is just such an understatement.

      • i know the oompa loompa hood rat that enabled that weak spineless worm hasbeen has absolutely ZERO problem living with herself and knowing my children are fatherless because she encouraged Diablo to leave his wife, kids and family. all she had to do was TELL him how much she loved his kids and he believes she is super wonderful. even thou since day 1 (before i even found out about her) she has been manipulating him into doing what she wants. i almost felt like i needed to save him from her but *shrugs* that was his choice. i hope she makes him miserable.

        i dont think she has any problem living with herself thou. she is evil, hateful, enjoys other peoples pain (i mean seriously what kind of woman calls her boyfriends WIFE in the first place). she walked out on her own husband and children that she carried and gave birth too……why would she give a fuck about someone’s children? she only sees her own children once every 4 to 6 months so i seriously doubts that she cares that he hasnt seen his kids or that his kids lost their dad. she already interferes in what little visitation he had in the first place, up to the point it was easier for him just not to see his children then to deal with her crazy…….of course she is also so good that he believes this is all MY FAULT…..

        i hate these women (and men). who are nothing but shallow homewreckers. i do not believe for one second that she honestly and truly LOVES Diablo, but she is currently getting what she wants from him so as long as she continues to “make him feel better” about being a loser and lets him drink as much as he wants, he will continue to be her puppet. very sad really. i thought he was so much more then that…..but i was wrong. i wish something very very bad would happen to her, even more then i wished on him. it just feels super wrong that someone who does something like that, someone who has done what she has done, bailed on her own marriage, and children, wrecks multiple marriages (apparently she trolls for unhappy married men for potential boyfriends), shatters family lives, and causes so much pain …… SHOULD have some kind of consequences. but unfortunately she is living a very happy and guilt free life. she has my ex paying for her every wish and need while his children have holes in their shoes and cant pay sports because i cant afford the sign up fee. she gets to drive around, eat out and goes visiting, goes out to bars, stays out late and goes on vacations while his children get tired of eating hamburger helpers and cant even go to the movies. and the sad part is she does not care one single bit that he is causing his children pain. it is a shame really. so so so very sad, it hurts my heart all over again.

  • Perhaps I am moving past ‘meh’, but today I read this as something a self-absorbed child would say. (It is remarkable how consistent these cheaters are! They really do read from the same playbook.)

    In my singledom, I had a short relationship (6 months) with a guy and he actually uttered that statement. Possibly, it was around month 4. Given this context, it makes the statement even more absurd.

    Newbies, I really hated people telling me this but — time really does help you to heal. It gives you the opportunity to have some peace, some separation from the manipulation and to get some clarity.

    • So true, once you remove yourself from the daily drama, you will start to see things that weren’t so clear in the beginning. NC or limited contact if you have kids, is really the only way.

  • How they “need to be loved” is a moving target. Whatever you do, it’s never enough. Even if you do meet all their needs, they say they had to cheat because you were “too perfect”.

  • I heard a version of this. You didn’t speak my love language. WTH. I went to work everyday and let you stay home with your daughters. Let you quit your job because it was too stressful. Took care of all the finances. Came home to cook supper for you and the daughters and clean up the kitchen when we were done. What did she do? Screw around on facebook, watch tv and run around with her mommy. Then she had to have an affair because I didn’t give her all the affirmation she needed. Tell her what a great wife, mother, and lover she was. How beautiful she was. I was mean because her and the girls needed to be quite after 10 so I could get some sleep before work the next day. Well excuse me, maybe i’m just a little bit stressed by all the demands that I took on. So, she left to find her happiness. Guess when you have a replacement lined up that helps find your happiness! I should be celebrating because now my life is so much easier now. But i’m a chump and still dealing with someone crushing my identity and breaking my heart. Hoping time does heal all wounds.

    • Let me get this straight lost.. you worked all day, she didn’t work, and you came home and did the COOKING and Clean up? And took care of the finances (probably a lot of other boring grown up stuff like taxes, etc)? And because you were tired at 10pm you were a big meanie?

      Geez Louise.

      These stories are all the same and you know what the common thread is Lost? These assholes are all entitled and expect grandiose things out of life, yet they never want to actually work at it. A normal, routine, regular life isn’t good enough, but it’s not like they are especially DRIVEN or motivated. They are SPECIAL and doing things like working, cleaning, paying bills, childcare.. those are all too MUNDANE. Cry me a big river!!! They aren’t grownups!

      My STBX complained that I wasn’t spontaneous enough and I was too cheap with money. Well SOMEONE had to be. While he was wildly spending, I was working, taking care of two boys, the house, the cooking, the laundry, the shuffling from here to there. My life wasn’t all roses either. Sure, I would like to escape from time to time.. who wouldn’t? But I am a GROWN UP and I have responsibilities. I live in the real world.

      Now, STBX is traveling all over the globe, spending like a maniac, missing his days with his boys reliving his youth. Having “fun” I guess. Leaving me with the responsibilities. He does it because he CAN, because I am HERE.. and he knows I will take care of my kids. So he bails on all of us. He gets to have the fun while we pick up the pieces. He’s in heaven now.. but hell is around the corner.

      Eventually, the party ends.

      Lost, you and I and all the others on this board deserve partners who appreciate what we bring to the table and I think we will find those down the road. Hang in there. A man who cooks? Damn, most women would kill to have a man that cooks!!!!

      • “These stories are all the same and you know what the common thread is Lost? These assholes are all entitled and expect grandiose things out of life, yet they never want to actually work at it.”

        Exactly, newchump! Pitifully similar. They expect grandiose yet they are so awfully common.

      • newchumpatl, just substitute he for she in your situation for mine. It’s crazy how similar stories here are. How we are all boring and not loving enough. I’m going to have to do the work so I have a better picker. Normal, routine and employed sounds really good to me. A partner not another child! And I didn’t say my cooking was good! But the kids seemed to enjoy something not out of a box.

        • Yes, a grown man, not a child sounds GOOD to me. And please, no more financial disasters. People who look prosperous are often the OPPOSITE. STBX looks good, fancy car, fancy clothes, big spender.. but inside.. hollow.

          Yes, my picker needs adjusting too. Hang in there Lost.

    • I can absolutely promise you time does heal. You’ll carry scars but you will come out of it in the end and have a better life. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and know that you deserve so much better.

    • I got the I didn’t understand his love language line as an excuse right before the divorce was finalized. He told me that I actually understood and got 4 out 5 right, but it was that ever elusive 5th one which caused him to be a serial cheater. He never told me which one out of the 5 I failed.

      The 25 plus years of living together, me working a full time job, taking care of the children (4), doing practically all of the house work, all of the laundry, planning the trips (all of which he complained about, until he bragged about it to his co-workers), paying the bills, being the fucking adult in the relationship, yeah, I might have overlooked an item on his love language list. Of course, when I told him that he didn’t even know I had a list and didn’t care, he turned the conversation right back to how I had failed him.

      It really dosn’t matter, however, because it’s all bullshit. He’s trying to convince himself and his fans that his therapy and his relationship with Our Lady of the Praying Psycho Whores has enlightened him and he’s doing serious introspection. It’s all just more rationalizations and justifications – READ Lies – that he’s telling himself and anyone who isn’t fluent in psychopathy.

      He’s the EX now and, aside from the remaining loose ends, I don’t have to listen to his verbal diarrhea. It is pointless to argue with anyone who is committed to believing their own lies. You can’t make sense out of crazy.

  • I think this type of thing is a pure power play that basically is asserting “My needs are more important than your needs. You are to focus on supporting me and providing cake and giving me kibbles on demand, while I do not owe you any reciprocation – if fact, the idea of reciprocation isn’t even within the realm of our co-existence. And I’ve noticed that you giving 100% to me just isn’t enough, so one, try harder and two, in the meantime I am justified getting my needs met elsewhere. Just remember, I am numero uno. The marital resources of time, money and emotional energy are all mine mine mine, but I need you to keep producing those resources for my consumption. If you don’t comply, I will emotionally abuse you and I will manipulate you into guilt and use your fear of rejection and fear of confrontation against you, preferably without you noticing as much. I am a cake eater. You are here to serve me even though you are not enough for me, as I am entitle for much much more.”

    • Buddy, that took my breath away. If my cheater (or most cheaters) were honest, that is EXACTLY what they think. Standing ovation.

    • Great summary, Buddy. Painful to admit I allowed myself to be treated that way, but so accurate.

    • Buddy… Yep… Yep… And yep. They plant the seeds of doubt… And u do anything to try and erase that doubt for them. They say ‘ you never liked having sex’ or ‘ you never wanted to try new things’ …. Oh… They know where to hit you. Next thing ya know you are a contortionist in a pleather suit holding a chicken and selfie stick over yr bed. They gotcha. The minute they see u play into the doubt that the created … They know they gotcha. The Very First Time. They know what power they can exert over you by your very first reaction. They gotcha. And they run with it. Starts off very insidiously… They see what boundaries they can inch over… when u bite… They know. Its a sick sick game. When you wake up from the fog, pull off the pleather suit and say WTF have I been doing? They recognize the shift in you… Then they switch gears and become nasty. Your mate then becomes unrecognizable to u. The rug is pulled out again and you have no bearing what so ever. Just like they want.
      Its all a sick and twisted game.
      How I wished I said ‘ fuck u’ instead of dancing. When I realized what I had done and how he manipulated the whole scenario I was hit with so much shame and guilt and self loathing. Further paralyzing me. Too ashamed. And he new that. He counted on that too.
      I look back and shuddered. I was/am a good person … And my goodness was used against me. He counted on me playing my part.
      I wont ever be used again.

    • Exactly! While he stayed home and watched TV, or surfed the net, or got kibbles from the light of his life via text/ phone.

  • Mine said I didn’t understand being with other woman was like being a teenager again they were all over each other she couldn’t keep her hands off him. She dragged him from where the fat ass fell asleep every night on the couch into bed with her! Back up 6 years when he started his own business and worked two jobs while I sat helplessly watching him kill himself. Never wanted to do anything besides work that business that sacrificed for as well. Never went anywhere never did anything couldn’t get my hair cut or nails done god forbid would cost him money. Which by the way I got thrown in my face you know everything that’s wrong with me which was never an issue of course til he met her! I wanted him to come to bed with me too and when I tried to make him I got screamed at to leave him the fuck alone he was sleeping and he couldn’t sleep in the bed it was twenty years old and hurt his back! I asked for a new bed. Nope! Wasn’t spending the money then I went into a severe three year menopause and some female surgery that took me two years to get right from. I tried to tell him my body was ailing me and help me to feel more special like he really did still want and desire me. Nope! Just ignored it and me. It was let’s fuck sat night and no romance no being special no nothing. So instead if being understanding and right by NY side when I needed him he went out looking for bookie and fell head over heals with the first one that came along and apparently it was more fun cheating and sneaking around than being a man and respecting me enough to tell the truth. Its been two years and he still worked move his business from this property and go away. That’s my fault too because I refused to move into a rental so he and the whore could live here. Everything was tried so I could move elsewhere we were on a year of agreed decision. Six months in they bought a house yet his business is still here. What did he think was gonna happen. He is the biggest procrastinator on the planet and it would have taken years to get him to buy the house from me. Apparently I was supposed to give them everything and just walk away like a good girl. But he still wants us to be friends. Ha! Who needs friends who betray you stick the knife in your back and just keep twisting it! And be good friends with the whore! You know cause it just happened and get over it already. Lawyer appt tomorrow. File done. I get the house, I sell it. Screw him and his business. I tried to be nice to give him time to buy this place for all the good years and the kids we share but no he doesn’t let the year pass six months buys a house with her. The whore is upset because she’s wasting two years of her life on him. Try 30 bitch!

  • Once I really saw him I refused to engage in any discussion of what was wrong with me that caused him to cheat. I responded to every sally with “the cheating is 100% on you”. At one point he screamed at me that it was 50% my fault and even his therapist said so. However, I do not recommend you do this with an abusive person. Nor do I recommend you remain in your home with him once you’ve told him you are divorcing and he actually believes you are doing it no matter what he says. It’s dangerous. If at any time your spouse talks about suicide get the fuck out immediately, it is another brick in the wall of abuse that leads to worse. I say this because I wish I’d known this myself a long time ago.

    • And I am glad you are around to know it. My ex is just verbally violent, but, yep, they get So snippy when held accountable. And FUCK. THAT. THERAPIST.


  • That’s the same as saying he wanted out because he could not be responsible for my happiness. That what he does should not affect my happiness. After I caught him cheating again for the hundredth time.

  • Mine did this to me too, told my my shoes were “old lady” and I needed to wear higher heels. Even tried to buy them for me!! High heels hurt like a bitch and I am not going to be in PAIN just for that!

    Come to find out the whore wears them regularly. Golly Gee.


    • Oh, the wrong shoes. I admit, I own too many pairs but I am not a crazy hoarder. But heels from when I wore a suit to work and funeral/holiday party heels are not meant for dinner at Applebees. Asshat complained I wasted all this money on things I never wore. Trust me, I wore those heels more often than I wore the skankalicious lingerie he continued to buy for years. If I were a good, loving wife, I would dress like a tramp. Oddly, Florence dresses like an old lady so she must some freakazoid dominatrix or something in private bc he constantly complained I did not adequately present myself as a doctor’s wife. Lord only knows what that means.

  • Sheesh! Today I got if I sell the house he won’t move his business he will lose it and never work again just live off the whore or for her she has her own business makes plenty of money and I can go eff myself cause I won’t get a third or quarter of nothing! I wonder if he marries him and she pays him I can get some of that. Threaten me if I don’t do what he wants I can be homeless. 30 years nice guy! And of course all this is my fault since I won’t give him the house my salary paid for the mortgage for thirty years. Why can they just be honest sorry I hurt you sorry not sorry. Moved the damn business help me a bit to sell the house and just move on. Doesn’t 30 years count for anything I guess not and now he’s pulling with our kids moms fault he’s not happy. Jesus what do I ever do to deserve this kind of treatment. And told kids mom forced him and whore to buy a house and he can’t afford both now! Guess he’s gonna try and make sure I lose my kids too. Marry again?! Haha haha haha haha!

    • I hope you’ve talked to a lawyer about the house situation, you have to have one with these craaaazy creeps. The X tried to screw me over big time, I had been paying for everything for so long, and he squatted in our house and refused to pay, or leave! My attorney got me what she could, and forced the house sale, he would have just wanted me to end up with nothing, because that’s what Narcs do!

      • FreeWoman – I’m going through the same thing. I paid the house payment while he gave himself a $2000 allowance every month. He was caught cheating, but refused to leave so I had to. I’m hoping the house will have to be sold – I don’t want it that’s for damn sure and he doesn’t deserve it. He too wants me to end up with nothing. Must be because of all the blow jobs I DIDN’T give him.

        • Yes, all we deserve for decades of devotion, is scorched earth! No Way Buster! The sale of the house (marital property) belongs in the divorce decree. My attorney also slipped my name change to my Grandmother’s maiden name in there, she said Hey, why not? and the judge approved it! When the Sad Sausage tried to drag feet on the house sale, for a year, she threatened contempt of court, and he signed the papers to sell. I admit, I enjoyed watching the court system work on my behalf!

  • To justify his main affair, mine said, “You weren’t listening to what it took to make me happy” (cue sad sausage face).

    In a demand letter written after that affair (which I still didn’t know about), turns out what it took to make him happy was complete subservience, that I sacrifice everything (including our children’s well-being) to be arm-candy for him, and a list of disgusting sexual demands (which I never did meet. No wonder he continued to cheat, eh?). As Newchumpatl put it above, “my suckage goes on and on.”

  • “However much you loved them, and however imperfectly, you failed to love unconditionally. You probably had ideas of reciprocity, respect, and fidelity. Those are conditions..”

    Last night i caught the last 10 minutes of the classic movie Gaslight. never saw it before. i do not think it was a coincidence to find it while switching channels. Seeing such disordered behavior play out in a dramatic – but accurate!- way was a nice weekend booster while awaiting today’s post.

    The happiness cheater’s seek is not possible or realistic. Hence their chronic conditions of emptiness and search for endless kibbles.

    “Those are (their) conditions..”

    • I loved Gaslight and introduced ex to it early in our relationship. I still cannot bear to watch it, 3.5 years post DDay.
      Hopefully one day, as I want to watch it with the kids one day.

  • My ex actually admitted, at one point long after I kicked him out (probably one of the times he wanted to ‘try again’) that he expected a ton of things from me, but had never even thought about what I might need or want from him. NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THIS. Same with his relationship with his kids; he knew very clearly what he wanted and needed, never thought about what he could be giving.

    His comment at this moment of insight? ‘I don’t know why I’m like that.” Still 100% self-centered. ZERO recognition, at that point or ever, of how painful and unfair that was to me.

    And of course that insight disappeared in a puff of smoke, a few minutes later.

  • “I didn’t think you loved me…” ” you are too focused on the kids…” Blah blah blah.

    And then he spends $5k PER MONTH on the MOW for the past 10 yrs. This doesn’t include CC charges, rub map ladies, co workers, X’s and money embezzled from his employer to extend ‘work’ trips. This is cash alone. From the joint account. The same account he would shriek that we had to cut back in our spending…. As if I was heading to Vegas on a private jet weekly dressed in Prada to fuck random dudes.

    He really had me jumping through those fiery hoops to make him happy. I don’t recall having much of my needs met.

  • I fully admit that my love wasn’t enough for my soon to be ex wife. I have only one penis and she needed over thirty different ones to satisfy her.

    • Sorry this made me think of Alice Neel’s painting of the man with three penises (Joe Gould). Hook your ex up with this guy. At least she’ll go through the men three times slower.

      Joe Gould

  • I am new here. Been reading a couple months. Chump Lady and Nation you are living angels.You have truly saved my sanity.Thank you from the bottom of my broken heart.
    I got this line from the owhore,”He wants to love you” Having never understood it , now beiing educated by the UBT.Maybe it was a sort of reverse -pike of ” You didn’t love me like I needed to be loved “.

    • Welcome Elisa!

      “He wants to love you…”? But?… He just can’t muster it? Hey, give him an A for effort?

    • Oh puleeze, fuck them both Elisa, what horrible freaks. Who SAYS stuff like that? I mean really, does she truly think this would make you feel better?

      As I said to my ex when he told me shortly after D-Day that he thought he loved AP#1 more than me and was going to marry her–“you lied to me constantly for at least 15 years, everything about you was a lie. And now, if you ever cared about me, even a little bit, I would think that you would at least lie to me out of a scrap of kindness.”

      But the answer is they didn’t care about us, not even a little bit, and they don’t have one blessed scrap of kindness in them. Empty gaping holes is what they are!

    • Elisa.. welcome. He “Wants” to love you. How about “I want a divorce and have the assets” Pfft.

  • I will add, at the same time, my cheaterass husband was telling me how much he loved me repeatedly and daily.So at the same time, I guess he was telling slut that “he wants to love me.”Whatever that means.

    • Elisa, right up until my ex husband pulled the plug on our 37 year marriage (46 year friendship) he was telling me how much he adored me and could not live without me and during sex how he couldn’t be any closer to me (sorry to offend anyone). His work colleagues always went out of their way to tell me that the ex adored me. I am still puzzled by all of the BS but to this day he has never told me why he pushed me out. Apparently he has told everyone else but not me. I am just the idiot he was married to and thought that we would go through until the end with each of us supporting the other. More the fool me.

      • Same story, Maree….until he met howorker, Then I guess I was just disposable.

        • OSaaT, even the howorker felt uncomfortable in his presence. You see she was the company bike but the only one who never got a ride was my ex. He is now much happier with a 23 year old prostitute and mother of 2 and he is living the dream in Cambodia.

  • Elisa, you just made me remember what my cheaters whore said to me “If you were meetings his needs, you wouldn’t be in this mess”. She said it to me face when I confronted her about her and STBXH.

    • I’m kinda glad I haven’t been confronted by any OW face to face. If they were stupid enough to say that to me, I’d probably rip their face off. You have kudos for not doing that, Kate!

  • Thank you for the welcome dear Chump Lady.To clarify,Yes,I believe that is exactly what was meant ,that he couldn’t muster up the effort to love me because I sucked so bad.
    Kate50 it was when I confronted her about their affair.It was on the phone and not in person for me
    Why oh why do they blame us for this b.s.???

    • Because they listen to the lies being told about us by our cheaters, our cheater is saying things to get them into bed. Pretty simple.

  • I interrupt this thread to tell everybody to check out Last Week with John Oliver on HBO. He spends a good chunk of time making fun of the Michigan representatives who were fucking, Todd Courser and Cindy Gamrat. They got thrown out of office last week. Hilarious!

    • I mentioned them in Friday’s post about being scorned, because they’ve pretty much been scorned by the Republican party. Definitely rejected, and I’m sure there was some contempt in there.

      • I found it on YT, that was funny! Feel sorry for their families though, how embarrassing for them.

        • Nah . . . the families don’t have to be embarrassed. Those two assholes are the ones who should hide their heads. I’m glad they both got found out. Maybe now the spouses of these to idiots can have happy, authentic lives with other people.

  • Oh, but now that I kicked him to the curb, he’s texting me “you’re so beautiful, I miss everything, you’re the only one I ever loved” blah blah blah. Too late asshole, you fucked up. Sorry not sorry.

    • I’m getting the same thing now arlo, well I was till I blocked him everywhere. When he told me I was beautiful one time before I made the decision to leave him, I remember how uncomfortable I felt hearing it from him. It was like hearing him speak in a foreign language. LOL

      • Asshat is in suck up mode most of the time. Okay, now, it is just some of the time. It grosses me out when he ogles me. I want to wear baggy sweats so he stops smacking my butt. I think I might need to hurl just thinking about him trying to kiss me goodnight. He will push the issue and get the cheek sometimes but usually I offer the top of my head. Yuck. He is supposedly in counseling. He stopped saying he loves me months ago. He is supposed to be wooing me and winning me back but all he can do is show me he doesn’t actually love me.

        • Because I am a mean wife who won’t put out after he didn’t entirely come clean about an affair lasting over a year. Oh, right, this wouldn’t have happened if I had just loved him ;O

          • I sincerely hope your are lining up ducks and getting ready to leave this a-hole in the dust?

            • Yes, I am! When my lawyer called to check in with me last week, we discussed what would happen if I simply couldn’t make it another 4 1/2 months. So we are prepared and if we have do something sooner than later, we will. Otherwise he is going to get clobbered over the head in a few months. I am positively giddy sometimes thinking about it ;O

    • Arlo- i got all that during wreckonciliation. i even got it after he walked out, the 2nd time, to be with MOW.

      even if he believes this for the 3 seconds it takes to text it, none of it is real. not in the way you are real. because he isn’t real.

      that line may actually border on tautological reasoning. not sure your relationship status is with cheater, but don’t believe his words!

  • The other part of this, at least for my situation, was that, even if he felt he was missing something, HE NEVER F****ING SAID ANYTHING and seemed as happy as a clam. Your spouse is not a mind-reader. Your dissatisfaction may be reasonable or unreasonable, selfish or not, but either way, you can’t expect to remedy the situation if you hide your feelings and never say anything. To be cheated on and suddenly abandoned is bad enough (my stbxh is one of the “poof” cases), but to never even give the marriage a chance to have a conversation or work on addressing your concerns is the shittiest.

    • Oh and actually, I should clarify—my stbx didn’t even give me this line. In fact, it was the other way around: he didn’t love me the way I should be loved, the way a wife should be loved, and gosh, what right does he have to be married to me when he feels this way about someone else. I think I’ve commented this before on another post but hmm, he didn’t seem to think too hard on the reverse question before screwing someone he just met and deciding he was true love after a matter of days.

      • In other words, seeking validation and kibble through ‘poor sausage’ mode. Hes a collossal dumbarse.

  • My ex told me several times that I did not love him the way he needed to be loved. He said that he needed a woman who was an extension of him, who was willing to “ride the roller coaster of his life through the highs and lows and even crash and burn if necessary,” and who would faithfully go to church with him each Sunday and be Christian.

    Good luck with all that. It’s been five years and he’s still alone — his longest “relationship” since we separated was with a woman he met online and never even actually met in person. That lasted a couple of weeks. I, on the other hand, am moving in with my boyfriend next week. We’ve been together for two years.

    Life is much, much better when the cheater is out of it.

    • So glad to hear that things are going well with ‘nice guy’, and kudos for taking the step of moving in. Regarding your ex, he definitely crashed and burned….by himself!

  • Good for you GIO! Regarding this topic, I think my own UBT now sees it as “You aren’t perfect/perfectly controllable the way I need you to be.” And, even if someone was, he would still cheat on them and probably not respect them for being that way. It’s all a mindfuck.

  • I got most of this, the “You don’t love me like I need” but of course when asked what, specifically, I could do to improve my spously performance, I always received the sphinx-like response “You should just know.”

    That was often intermixed with “If our marriage was right, you would know what I needed” and “Good marriages are easy, each person knows exactly what the other needs, and supplies it.”

    My crystal ball was in the shop during our marriage. So sad.

    Of course, he never had a crystal ball or balls either nor did it occur to him that I might have had a few disappointments as well!

  • Evidently I loved him enough until he met and hooked up with Mhoworker. When the discard phase started (although I didn’t realize what was going on), nothing I did was enough. I didn’t sit on the couch with him enough, I didn’t cook his favorite dinner enough, I didn’t praise him for being wonderful enough, I didn’t sing his praises when he walked through the door enough, I didn’t return his affection enough…I just didn’t do enough!!!

    But I am enough…he is just an empty shell of excuses of why he felt like he should screw the Mhoworker and blow up the family. I just wished I had told him all the ways he wasn’t “enough” for me (the list would be long) and that I never once considered screwing someone else. They are full of bullshit and it just spews out of their mouths.

    • Yes! I was told about this time we had a party at our house. Apparenly stbx went to bed. He was mad I didn’t follow him to bed. So let me get this straight – you are mad because you went to bed and our house is still full of people and I didn’t go to bed with you. Sorry

      • Yikes. You probably should have asked him if he wanted a glass of milk and a bedtime story.

  • Really glad you dissected this, CL. Can’t thank you and CN enough. Guess it’s time to review the cheater’s guidebook again.

  • Cheaters and they side fucks are full of more shit than a cesspool. DO NOT give them and their disordered mindfuckery a moment of your precious time.

  • I love you all, Chumps. Every time I fall into the same drama with narc ex I remind myself, no more kibbles. This site actually makes me smile when he starts his universal bullshit now. Thanks for the education and the laughs through a painful experience. NO MORE KIBBLES. (ps. our relationship might have been easier if I were “more like Shaun’s wife” and I gave him blowjobs daily. Sorry, but after raising his kids, paying my and half our way, running his home and doing all his social planning, cooking, shopping and admin for him, I was a little too tired and resentful.

    ps. iIm sorry about making you fuck the french girl, narc. I should have been more like shaun’s wife, I guess and “just been happy”.

  • I got this BS too. I was told after almost 20 years of marriage that I ignored him and rejected him the whole time. My situation was bizarre to say the least. On June 24, 2013, he comes home one day after work and says I might as well tell you now, I am done. Huh? With what? Quit your job after 17 years? No, done with you, this house all of it. Talk about whip lash. Long story short, with my grown kids digging around, he joined the dating website POF. Met a “25 year old “girl” named “Francesca Smith” (that should have been his first clue). Says he is not paying the mortgage and is moving out July 1st. He did, to a crappy one bedroom POS. Turns out there is no girl, my daughter found this out in about 5 minutes. The pictures he was showing off of his new girlfriend, who and I quote, ” is going to be my wife, yes it is that serious”. Pictures belonged to a porn star, Raven Riley. The front page of her website says that her picture is being used by Ghana romance scammers. Talk about instant karma! I filed for divorce 10 days after he moved out and put the house up for sale. He was suicidal when he realized that all the money he borrowed and payday advances he sent western union, were for scam. It has taken me the last 2 years to realize all the bullshit he was spouting about the reasons were just that, bullshit. Suffice to say that it has taken me a while to realize he is one screwed up person. It is easy for him to blame me for everything, The fact that my kids, his step kids, have not spoken to him since he walked out. The best line was to tell me the reason I was upset when he left were ” the consequences of my actions”. I just shake my head and wonder what alternate reality is he living in? I believe that this is the only way he can look in the mirror everyday and still function. He told me once that he has to compartmentalize his life or he would not be able to function. No shit. Hey, I got half his retirement and just bought a house. So who got the better end of this shitty deal? Me, that’s who. I ran into him the other day (we live in a small town in northern CA). It was very rewarding to see him looking like shit. fat, disheveled and still wearing the same clothes I bought him 3 years ago. I joined CrossFit, am doing Olympic weightlifting, quit smoking and have lost 77 pounds. He is a sorry piece of shit living in a 600 SF apartment. Of course after I run into him, he starts sending me pictures of the ocean. I was not going to respond but I did. Asked him WTF? He said he was having kind thoughts about me and wanted to share his day at the ocean. I mean really what is wrong with some people that they think this is okay? Of course once I asked WTF, turned into the same nasty shit as usual. Best course, no contact and do not respond. Could have kicked my own ass for taking the bait. Oh and if one more person tells me to stop being angry and forgive him, I think I may kick their ass. How do you ever forgive someone who ran you over with a mack truck? Sorry for the rant but his post just got me going.

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