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Dear Chump Lady, “We never had sex anymore…”

sexlessDear Chump Lay

This is a “My truth hurts” story.

Been married 20 years and found out 4 months ago that hubby was cheating. Truth is, we had not been sexually active with each other for years… I’d try to get him into counseling, but he didn’t like talking about his problems with a stranger. We were best friends, talked every day, slept in the same bed, had similar interests, raised great kids, worked hard, laughed a lot, held hands, kissed all the time, blah blah blah.

Then, I found out about the affair. His response? “We never had sex anymore, it was embarrassing, and I guess I was tired of it but didn’t know how to say so.”

He left the house, moved to his mom’s, asked to work on the marriage, had lots of discussions about how he had stopped talking to her (not), and was really giving us a try. Lied to our kids, and our families. I did tell her husband and they are now divorcing.

I made all the changes he asked for, also lost the requisite “affair weight,” and all for nothing. We are divorcing, I’m 53 years old, overweight, thrown out like yesterday’s trash while he flaunts his much younger girlfriend around. I feel lost, I feel like I’ve been held underwater for 20 years, I feel used up and no good to anyone ever again.

That is my truth.


Dear Chumptastic,

Come up for air.

You’ve been held underwater? Used up? Feeling no good? Time to take back your life.

Start by finding your righteous anger. Fuck him. Seriously, fuck him. He didn’t like a “sexless” marriage? Well NEITHER DID YOU. So, who did you go out and cheat with? Oh, that’s right. You didn’t. He was “tired of it, but didn’t know how to say so”? What? He can’t pick up a phone and call a therapist? Book a weekend away? Buy a sex toy? Have an honest conversation?

Talking about “his problems with a stranger” was too hard. But fucking a stranger? Piece of cake! (I pun.)

Talking about it is “embarrassing”? But breaking up two homes is what, ennobling?

Fact is, he made a deliberate choice to deny you sex, probably because he was getting it elsewhere.

He was happy to eat cake (have his affair and his marriage) at your expense. You found out. You blew his cover — he didn’t confess. He was OKAY with the status quo. No consequences! Perpetual cake!

He’s an asshole. This isn’t about how sexless, or overweight, or worthless you feel — it’s about HIM. His shitty character, his shitty behavior. Don’t internalize his stupidity. Infidelity is no measure of your worth. It’s a rainbow nation of chumps — thin, fat, young, old, blonde, brunette, rich, poor, saggy, firm. Oh, and sexless and sex-crazed. You could be screwing him 24/7 and if he wanted to cheat, he would. It’s says everything about his character, and nothing about you.

Fact is, Chumptastic, if your standards are low enough, you can find someone to have sex with you any time you want. Hang out in a bar after closing, find a Craigslist ad, whip out a credit card. He’s not some hot commodity because some younger woman wants him — he just lowered his standards. The OW cheats with him and on her husband. Two scummy people connect. This is nothing enviable. You too could fuck around, but you don’t.

I would also add, infidelity has nothing to do with your desirability. Just because his dick doesn’t rise to the occasion, doesn’t mean another man’s won’t.

Now if I were Dan Savage or someone else, I’m supposed to take this “sexless marriage” thing really seriously. Well, I do. I think if someone deliberately withholds sex from you, that’s shitty. It’s something that needs to be addressed honestly. You tried to address it with him, and my guess is you thought “Well, for some reason, he can’t have sex, but we have all these other things together and I’ll make my needs smaller and do without.”

I understand the chumpy impulse, but that’s the moment to examine your values — how much does sex mean to me? Is it acceptable to do without? Is this the sort of relationship I want to be in? And have a CONVERSATION. And if your needs aren’t being met (and physical affection is a legitimate need!), leave honestly. Your husband could’ve had a similar values moment — but he made a unilateral decision to fuck around on you instead.

The Dan Savages of the world would excuse such unilateral decision making (as a response to what they’d blameshift as your unilateral decision to Deny Him Sex), because Sex Is Of Paramount Importance! It trumps considering your partner and his or her health! Obey the Boner! Is cheating “optimal”? No, but hey, the MAN NEEDED SEX!

Okay, you know what, cheaters? — go for it. Please, fuck the younger woman, the Thai prostitutes, the Craigslist hookups, the slutty co-worker. Do it all in service to Almighty SEX. Make that your paramount value. And good luck later when you need someone to change your colostomy bag. When you’ve traded all your gold for a magic boner — who’s going to love you when you’re old and vulnerable? When your equipment fails? When you’ve invested all those years in the magic boner and not in meaningful relationships — then what?

That Thai hooker is going to step over you and your wrinkled junk and steal your wallet. Schmoopie is going to be sick of your shit and find a new mark. Your kids will find you a colossal embarrassment. All because you sold your soul to the Magic Boner.

Chumptastic — start seeing this clusterfuck as HIS mess. HIS problem. HIS stupidity. Stop internalizing the rejection. You were rejected by an idiot. You have real values of love and mutuality — he doesn’t. In a way, it’s nothing personal. Your values don’t match.

Let him go chase boners with Ms. Younger — you go be mighty without him.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at Read more about submission guidelines.
  • “He didn’t like a “sexless” marriage? Well NEITHER DID YOU. So, who did you go out and cheat with? Oh, that’s right. You didn’t. He was “tired of it, but didn’t know how to say so”? What? He can’t pick up a phone and call a therapist? Book a weekend away? Buy a sex toy? Have an honest conversation?”

    I have long held the belief that everyone in a marriage (at the very minimum) deserves a “fair warning” conversation something to the effect of “the _____ in our relationship is a deal breaker with me…we need to fix this or I will leave/go outside the marriage to have this need met”…I could have well put “rage” or “selfishness” or “meanness” in that spot since I didn’t know he was a serial cheater.

    Changing the rules on us and not telling totally lacked decency and integrity and leave him to it.

    • This “everyone in a marriage deserves a fair warning”. My ex had some things (some legitimate) that he was unhappy with, but instead of ever talking to me and trying to work it out.t, he starting bonding with his AP. By the time we had out first real conversation about the status of our marriage he had already cheated on me.

      He made the unilateral decision that our problems, of which I was not informed, were too big and he had “hurt each other” too much so he needed to sleep with other poeple.

      At the end, it is just a lack of decency and integrity and it is hard to be in a marriage based on respect and reciprocity with someone with very different values from you.

      • Cheater: It’s just that I’d often get this feeling that you didn’t respect me… you just were pretending to out of pity. So when someone respected me for ME, it was so exciting. My wife didn’t respect me but THEY did.

        Me: ::double-blink:: Um, well… yeah. My husband never did anything but sabotage himself unless I blocked him from doing so. You, self-admittedly, said that you had no aspirations and that you were glad I was in your life, to show you opportunities and motivate you to go after them. When I met you, you made $300/week, gross, and did nothing to change it. You had two baby-mamas after you and dodged them constantly, which you hid from me for a long, long time. I “solved” that “problem” by being completely welcoming to them and they decided to drop child support/have their current boyfriends adopt their children if you signed over your rights. BOTH women said I was sweet and would be a wonderful step-mother but they didn’t want that… the FATHER would never be a DAD. You didn’t care. They were right. To them, it wasn’t worth the headache and heartache of visitation for a measly $35/week. They knew you… they knew that you’d never aspire to earning more so there was no benefit to dealing with you AT ALL. You never resolved anything and were never motivated to do better; you only complained.

        Now, you make quintuple that from higher and higher-paying jobs *I* got you… writing your resumes and cover letters. Job hunting and taking personality-test screenings online because you “always got too nervous to come across as normal.” Negotiating with recruiters through email and filling you in when they got down to the business of setting up initial phone interviews. All you had to do was interview well and do exactly what you were doing before, for companies that actually reward what you’d always done. You rewarded me for this by ignoring us, resenting us, lying to us, and making “friendships” with ho-workers.

        MAYBE IF YOU ACTUALLY DID SOMETHING WORTH RESPECTING, I WOULD ACTUALLY RESPECT YOU and wouldn’t have had to fake it… hoping that you’d appreciate my loyalty and be KIND, at least. Until I’d ACTUALLY come to respect you, for real. Those whores didn’t respect YOU, they respected the you they SAW. The YOU who only appears shiny and sweet because that was the result of me setting you up for success, as long as you showed up.

        You’re fucking welcome.

        (His reply? “Sorry.”) NO SHIT. lol

        These OWs would build him up, saying what a great guy he was for working soooo hard so his wife could stay home with the 3 children they’d made. The three children I carried and birthed within 2 years, 3 months. Our children are 15 months apart and 11 months apart. Never mind that he put in fewer hours than when I met him, but for 5 times the pay. Never mind that he had baby-mamas without the consequences most assholes have to experience. Never mind that I settled his years-past debts and negotiated a perfect credit score. Never mind that he was selfish every step of the way. All he ever did was iron his clothes (poor Cheater!) and go to work. He did literally nothing else but eat, sleep, shit, shower, and shave. Never mind that I orchestrated everything because I HAD to… his life philosophy is: “Everything will all work out.” Yeah, sure… because I MADE it work despite you.

        The only benefit to doing this, it seems, is that at least there’s a sizeable-enough income to get decent alimony and child support. I EARNED that, for damn sure.

        • During the time he was selfish ad mean and lost and assholeish and lying and betraying, he said to me “Men need to feel admired”

          me: “well then the first step is to do something admirable”

        • They appreciated me, that I work out four hours a day, my physique, my occupation, all the stories you have heard a thousand times, and my paycheck.
          I wonder how much they would have appreciated you the years you were unemployed?
          How happy would GF being pregnant without medical insurance and having to apply for state aide?
          Who showed you how to write a resume?
          Wasn’t it me who had to ask you to stop watching Three Stooges Marathons and cartoons all day and apply for a job so we could have medical insurance with a new baby arriving in a few months?

          Didn’t I support you when you were furloughed from your first airline job? I encouraged you to hang in there not to give up and apply for the job you have now.
          I gave up my career because you wanted your family me and our baby living in the same state as you built your flying hours.. living in a duplex in the woods,miles from civilization.

          Who stood by you when you had nothing and we moved in four times in one year because we couldn’t afford the apartments we were in?
          The list goes on.. I don’t think GF would tolerate the life I had with you to help “our” career.
          which suddenly became your career in court, Now you can discard me like a piece of garbage.
          As you and GF live comfortably while I struggle to keep ends meet.

          No I don’t admire your body, or you,

      • We are in the same world divorceat25. He told me we had grown apart, but he never did anything to correct that. Instead, he gave HER the man I always wanted. I was not perfect, by any means. But if there were conversations to be had regarding our relationship, I was the one who started them. He never ONCE in the 25 years we were together approached me to discuss an issue in our relationship. In the early days, I remember bringing up an issue and then you have anything you need to talk about? The answer was always no. Now that I think about…even issues with the kids were always discovered by me and I was the one to bring them to his attention for a discussion. He was fairly removed from our lives, and eventually, I accepted that and let him be. Apart from the occasional “what do you think about this?”, or “what time are we leaving in the morning?” or “where should we eat?” all I ever did toward the last few years was run interference between him and the kids because they were reluctant to express their needs to him if they knew it wasn’t in line with what he wanted. Our relationship really was very ill. And yet, we never fought like some couples I know. You can’t fight with someone who won’t talk, I suppose. Still, I’ll never understand why he could talk to her and not me. And why our most significant conversations occurred AFTER the cheating, when it was TOO late to salvage our lives together. We owed each other and our family more than that. And I harbor guilt for my part. I can’t imagine being him.

        • 2kids2love, key statements re cheaters. They never grow (so it’s never “we grew apart”), they make little to no effort (good marriages have two people, “all in,” in them), they are incapable of intimacy (those conversations normal people have re their relationship they don’t occur as “you can’t fight with someone who won’t talk”), and when you finally realize that their crap life decision to cheat defines them you will realize that they will never be anyone’s fairy tale.

        • Yup. I can relate to the above. I’d ask STBX if every thing was okay and he’d say great. Until it wasn’t great any more. You know, he was unhappy for years. However, I would mention my desire for intimacy and he would acknowledge it, sob and do nothing.

          • Me too. I went to counseling, ex came a couple of times. I tried to work on my issues, but he would never tell me what he was unhappy about, and never honestly told me what he was unhappy about until he’d already decided to leave. He just unilaterally decided to bond with his married coworker and emotionally leave our marriage years before telling me. He truly seemed to think I could read his mind. I begged him to talk to me, open up about his feelings, for YEARS. He refused, but then blamed me for not knowing. It was so exhausting, such a Catch-22. No matter what, I lost every time because the game was rigged.

            By the way, Chumptastic, I was exactly where you are. 53 when my ex left, similar complaints by him (I seriously thought he was having ED issues) and felt similarly discarded after a 36 year relationship (31 years married). Let me tell you that you will recover. You will build a new life and do things you never thought you could. You will be happy again, maybe even happier than you’ve ever been. It does get better. Make sure to find a good therapist and surround yourself with friends and loved ones. Immerse yourself in things that make you happy. You now have time to take care of yourself. You can actually love yourself better than he ever did.

            • All of these stories sound almost exactly like mine. X no longer interested in sex, tells me it’s because he’s older now (mid 40’s). Became more and more distant, angry outbursts over trivial things. I’d ask if anything was bothering him, he’d answer no, I’d ask if he loved me. Of course he does, claimed I was his best friend.
              I went to therapy but he wasn’t interested. he said I needed it he didn’t.
              One night he didn’t come home on time from work, I called and asked if he was in traffic wondering why he didn’t call to let me know. He tells me he doesn’t want drama but he isn’t coming home. He had wanted something different.., later found out he had his someone different, they have more in common. More in common thinner 20 year marriage, family, home, memories,
              That’s when the divorce from hell began.. I was under the assumption he would be fair and honest, I knew I had nothing to hide and honesty would prevail..
              I now have an entirely different opinion of our legal system and X.
              Never heard so many lies, false accusations, legal crap and hearings requested by him and his attorney over things that could have easily be settled with a phone call or email from him to me. things such as can I have the registration on my truck..
              that on top of his sudden disabilities, another story .., I was married to Satan.

              • Brit, I think back about some of his outbursts and angry treatment that seemed to come out of nowhere. The occasional side glances when he seemed to be looking at me with disgust. I didn’t understand at the time, but now know he was in love with his coworker. He actually told me after he left “I just wanted something different.” It’s strange to think back to those perplexing angry episodes that didn’t make sense then, but do now.

              • I also got the angry man who didn´t want to have sex but blamed it on me because I was a “prude”. In my case, he was the one to initiate all the conversations but they would be unilateral lectures and always end angrily because I hate fighting and discussions. When he blamed me for not initiating conversations, I said to him that they were always monologues about how bad I was acting in all fields of our relationship: I was not neat enough, did not do enough housework, did not seduce him enough, did not pay the bills on time, did not plan all our weekend activities, went to bed too early….etc.etc And then he just stopped being nice at all and would give me the “you are disgusting look” …I couldn´t take it any longer, asked for a temporary separation and discovered two weeks later that he had been cheating me for at least a year. During the periods he abstained from sex I got all the excuses: he needed to work till late, he was depressed, too tired…I really thought he had a physical problem and was very patient and considerate and tried not to pressure him. I ended up in therapy by myself and was evaluated for ADHD because I couldn´t concentrate and in the end he blamed me for being the one to abstain from sex!!! He never cared that I was working full time, made more money than he did, took care of the kids so he could go out, planned our vacations and all extra expenses, bought our home, etc. He could only focus on the daily things that went wrong according to his narcissistic self and never appreciated the grand things that I did for him and our family. I really do hope his dick turns into gold inside the Magic Boner´s golden vagina ( I couldn´t think of any other reason why he would give up his wonderful life with me, except for the OW having a golden vagina)…

        • So similar to my story, I kept asking if we were doing well, and he kept reassuring me that all was well… After I found out about his affair, he came out with the spin of how unhappy he has been for years.

        • 2kids2love
          Same issue with me and ex’s so called inability to communicate. I tried so many tactics and was beyond patient. Yet he could bond with ho-worker. But then he says he and Ho-worker didn’t talk about deep things like he and I did. So, what is it dude? Oh I know, she was sparkly and was a nice distraction from your pregnant wife.
          To this day, I still do not know what issues he had with me. He says he is still not at a place where he can share his honest feelings. Ha.
          It is always about THEM, the cheater.

          • Wow well isn’t he a sparkly multi layered deep and mysterious onion of a character. It goes like this- “my problem with my wife is that she would be mad if she knew I was fucking my co worker, so I couldn’t tell her”

            • When caught in a lie (or lying by omission), I got the “I didn’t tell you because I knew it would make you mad” excuse.

              How about NOT DOING SHIT that “makes me mad” instead? You know, actually respect your fucking marriage and not do the shit that will deeply wound your wife, destroy trust, and damage your relationship?

              Fucking entitled piece of beetle dung.

          • Yea. He talked in circles…Blamed me and his job for everything wrong in his life. Yet when I asked what had I done to him he never could say. Said he did not want to upset me. I called his bluff on that shit because when he was raging at me or swearing at me or insulting me he was never ‘afraid’ to upset me. Frankly they are poor excuses for people and they know it. I’m not talking the cliche we -all have -our -faults poor but the the they are seriously messed up and will take down everyone with them type.

      • It hurts my heart to read about your experience, and those similar ones here. I loved my husband deeply, I made my needs smaller to accommodate him. And I initiated important conversations to address issues. I was truly stunned when he told me he was in love with a friend’s wife and they were made for each other, because he had been unhappy for many, many years. I know that’s not accurate, but knowing the truth doesn’t save my marriage. And my 3 grown boys are so upset by it (they have his lack of coping skills) that they have distanced themselves from both of us.

        • Michelle: Like the rest of us, you didn’t have a marriage to save; you had an intestinal worm that was sucking you dry. Lament not having a healthy marriage (don’t we all), but don’t lament the flawed monster that masqueraded as a marriage.

          (and apologies for all the parasite references tonight! Still in rage mode!)

    • They aren’t honest because they don’t want to pay child support, alimony or split their assets! I learned this the hard way! Married 36 years ( horrible years I may add)! Divorced 6 months (happiest months I have had)! You need to take a hard cold look at your Sociopath he’s got you in believing his lies! Celebrate that he is someone else’s problem!

      • or because they want to be a stay at home mom and run around playing all day. Spending the money and living a mostly stress free life. While the partner works at a job they don’t like, deals 100% with the finances, and takes care of the home. While also being the responsible parent. Married 23 years together 28. She worked 6 of those years. Now she gets 1/2 of the assets that I sacrificed for. It goes both ways when dealing with a narcissist.

        • If she took good care of the kids, then she actually worked very hard. That never excuses her behavior but don’t devalue stay at home parents. It’s rewarding but it is not easy and not stress free.

            • I get that Jack and that’s why I said IF. I think it is pretty clear that’s not what I was saying. 99.9% of the time cheaters do not make good parents; they are too selfish. There are a lot of stay at home parent chumps on here and they have really gotten screwed over financially, It’s been a long time since I was a SAHM and I loved it but it was not easy. Being a working mom isn’t easy either. I’m tired of the world acting like stay at home parents have it so easy. It is a 24/7 career and is very valuable to our society. I’m an educator and I bet I could walk into a new class of kids and in an hour I could tell you which kids have a stay at home parent or had one when they were little. Most of the time, they are the calmer, happier, kinder and more polite kids. It’s all about secure attachment (which narcs don’t have btw.)

              • If a SAHM parent has time to fuck random lays, create a fantasy life with an AP, Craig’s list ad or online EA, then they are not doing a good job at all raising the kids and running the home. That person would be emotionally disconnected from their children because they were invested in other people not related to the core family members.

                I’m a SAHM too. There is no way I could have been focused on raising my kids, managing the finances while ‘stealing’ moments to engage with a fuck buddy.

              • Nicole S, I don’t imagine you intended your comment to belittle working mothers, but it did. If you have a job, you still are at work 24/7, just like sahm. My child has been in daycare, etc. since she was six weeks old, and I guarantee that she is just as great as any child with a sahm . I’m an educator as well, and spend a lot of time around children myself. I don’t think generally that whether the mother works or not determines the quality of the child’s life because there are shitty parents , and fabulous parents, in both camps.

              • Nicole: Have to disagree–you could not walk into a class and tell which kids had SAHM. You could detect which kids had RESPONSIVE mothers, though..

                The gold standard day care research was done by the NICHD (first results published in 1997) with over 1400 children from before birth to early elementary–tons of data on demographics, attachment, mother responsivity, number of hours in day care/week, etc. The *only* significant predictor of secure attachment was Maternal Responsiveness. Did putting infants in full-time day care from an early age put working mothers at risk of less responsiveness? Sure, because fulltime work (esp after just giving birth is tiring). But most working mothers rose above that, and were able to develop secure attachment in their children. Furthermore, in most studies, even SAHM have kids insecurely attached kids about 30% of the time.

                I think it’s better to not pit mothers in any role against each other, esp. when the science doesn’t always support our intuitions.

              • You are all right and I apologize if my words were hurtful or belittling and they wrongly came from an emotional place inside of me. I have been a working mom for almost 8 years now and I was a SAHM for 8 years. I feel stay at home moms/dads don’t get much respect for what they do and it makes me sad. I have guilt over missing some of my kids’ things now that I’m working but I know I’ve worked my butt off to continue to be that engaged parent and now it is going to be even harder as a single mom who has 96% custody of my kids. When I think of SAHMs I think of responsive, nurturing moms but I can see how my thinking is skewed because that is mostly the kinds of moms I know. For me it is a complex subject and I decided early on that I would not have kids unless I could stay home with them when they were little. It was very important to me because of my life experiences and religious beliefs that are unique to me. I respect that others do not feel the same way,

          • The first stint at home she was a good mother. Took the girls a lot of places and taught them many things. Never took care of the house or cooked. That was ok. Second round the girls were in school. What did she do? Ran around town with her mom, slept and hung out with friends. Still no cooking, cleaning, or helping with homework. If we ate as a family, it’s because i cooked after work. Cleaned kitchen and rest of the house. So yeah, i’m a little bitter. I worked my ass off to give her a good life and rarely complained about her acting like a lazy teenager. I know most stay at home mom’s are great. My intention was not to put all stay at home moms down. Just mine who abused it. Now she walks away with a nice six figure settlement. And I still support my daughters 100%. So life isn’t fair and i’m ok with that. Just venting here like the others.

            • Yep she totally abused it and I can definitely understand why you would be bitter about her taking all that money. She doesn’t deserve it and she sucks. Do you know how many women would love to be real stay at home moms and don’t get the chance? She’s an idiot. I loved being a stay at home mom. I did cook, clean, laundry, play with the kids, read to the kids, took them to church and preschool, helped with homework, volunteered at their schools and was room mom a couple of years. Then I went to work and continued to do all of these things plus work 30+ hours a week while my cheater went to work and then did whatever he wanted and put us into tens of thousands of secret debt. Not trying to compare situation, just saying it all sucks so much!

              • Being chumped isn’t gender specific. I think we all tend to blame the other sex in our situation. But we need to be careful about doing that. Women and men get screwed by these people all the way around. It seems that because of our personalities, we seem to always loose in our situation. They are just bad people regardless of sex. I just wanted the ladies on here know that we men get the shaft sometimes too. I am very fortunate that this won’t ruin me financially and I will have 50/50 custody of my daughters. It just sucks to be taken advantage of. I admire women that stay at home with their children. It’s an awesome thing to do if you can. Hell, I wanted my wife to be able to stay at home with her daughters and I was proud that she could. Women who do it like you said should be admired and I do admire them. It is a hard job if you take it seriously. And the husbands should help them with the house stuff. My wife did abuse it but that’s what they do. I work with women that do everything at home in addition to work. I’ve always believed their husbands are total a*******. And through my ordeal, i found out they have cheating husbands. I believe in their cases they should divorce them and take a big chunk if not all the assets. But they won’t because we’re in a community property state and adultery does carry any weight in a divorce here. I just never expected to be chumped and dumped in the end. Just an FYI, we’ve been separated over 6 months and she still isn’t working. It makes me sick think of all the women out there working so hard to provide for their families while she sits around with her entitled attitude.

              • Thank you for the excellent information, Tempest. By far, the most detremental element in my child’s life has been HIS whoring. By far.

    • You would think they would have the decency to do that. But they don’t because??? It’s even worse when you agreed early on that divorce wasn’t an option for your marriage. Mine lead me on for years believing we had problems but we would work through them. I never saw it as an option to leave or cheat because she wasn’t meeting my needs in many areas. But she didn’t want to address the problems because she was afraid I would leave her. So she just disconnected while I was fighting for our marriage. Then she dropped the bomb of divorce when she was prepared mentally for it. They are really selfish in all ways. And it upsets her now that we don’t talk! F***** crazy slunt!

      • Mine just wanted another set of cockandballs.

        Not sure why when he already has his own! Sword fights perhaps??? Enough balls for taking up juggling maybe??? An opponent for pissing contests possibly????

        All I know is he must have been really bored and disappointed with me and my lame ass girl toys! He tried searching in my pants from time to time (cause he knows thats where boys keep the cockandballs I suppose), but I guess a couple balls aren’t as exciting without a bat.

    • Wow, it really makes me very sad to hear how many people have gone through similar things, when their partner’s checked out and didn’t even bothered to tell them. I’m really hoping this is just some really biased sampling, and it is still entirely possible for two people to have a healthy long term relationship.

  • Chumptastic,

    “That is my truth” is what he wants you to believe. I felt that way, too. But guess what? Once I got out and was emotionally clearheaded, this became my truth: My only fault is that I stayed. I forgave yourself, gained wisdom, practiced extreme self-care, and my mantra now is to be kind to myself. That means getting rid of anything that doesn’t add value to my life and I have become my best friend.

    Your marriage was sexless because he withheld sex from you as a form of control. Of power. It was his way of keeping your head under water. You’re out now but it will take time to appreciate the clean air you breath. But once you get a taste of that (otherwise known as “meh”), you will wonder why the heck you chose to stay underwater. Again, forgive yourself. As Maya Angelou said, “I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better.”

    Doing all the changes that he asked for achieved nothing because real, authentic love doesn’t work that way. He knew exactly who you were when he married you. I am not saying that we should not make changes that will benefit us, we should. But that should come from a place where we want to change because it will good for our soul, not to keep a piece of garbage lying around our home poisoning our soul.

    It may not feel this way right now, but divorcing the cheater is the only way to regain your life. The journey, as all of us know, is not an easy one but it beats choking for air for more years to come. Get rid of anyone who doesn’t add value to your life and gently let go of that voice that is giving you false truths. That is your cheater’s voice. He is now completely irrelevant.

    • Well said, uniquelyme,

      I too fell prey to the control of a sex with-holder.

      Once she knew she had me, the sex dried up while she used my desire to connect with her to get what she wanted. I was blind to it at the time, but once she had the upper hand, in that I gave to her “unconditionally” and pined for her love, she stopped desiring me sexually. No matter how hard I tried to please her, the passionate side of our marriage continued to suffer.

      Then later, post-DDay, she convinced our marriage counselor that the reason she strayed was because her needs for passion and connection were not being met. Yeah, technically, you could say that was true, but really, that was her choice to not let me meet her needs, as I put all I had into trying to connect with her, and she continuously withdrew and manipulated my efforts in order to control me.

      So when I “blamed her” for having an affair, the therapist says “now if you go down the path of blaming the other, then she can blame you for not meeting her emotional needs, and so on and so on…” So here I was in therapy, not “allowed” to tell my story, not allowed to address the horribleness of the affair, all because of her ability to twist the truth to the therapist.


      • Your “therapist” sounds completely incompetent. This sounds like victim blaming to me. What she burnt down your house? But you left matches in the drawer so it is all your fault. Yuck. I hope you got away from that.

        • The therapist may or may not have been incompetent, but my wife is an expert at acting normal, rational, healthy and emotionally sophisticated and sensitive with this type of man, and if he saw through her charades, he didn’t let on. But we weren’t allow to discuss circumstances, only “feelings.”

          So if I said “I feel devastated that she destroyed the family” I will get “devastation is not a feeling, and if you blame her by saying she destroyed, she can just blame you back”

          So then I’ll say “I am sad that the marriage I thought I would have seems lost.” and then the therapist will let me explain my sadness and my loss, and then turn it over to my wife you will say “I’m sorry that my actions resulted in your sadness.”

          But I know for a fact that she wasn’t sorry in the least. She didn’t f’ing care that I was hurt.

          But yeah, overall it was very frustrating to not be able to tell the truth.

      • Buddy, this is why Lundy says to never do MC with an abuser. They will manipulate the therapist because most of the MCs have zero skills in abusive relationships. Jedi Hugs!

      • [First post]

        That’s the thing with female narcissists. To paraphrase Firefly, “If you stop deliberately and intentionally manipulating her emotions, each and every single day, she will get bored, then miserable, then break up with or divorce you, then find a new boyfriend. And if your’e very, /very/ lucky, she’ll do it in that order.”

        Most of us are not “very, very lucky”.

  • Sing him song of holiday cheer!!!

    “I’ll gladly deck the halls with your saggy wrinkled balls…..fa la la la la, GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!”

  • Well this brings back memories. My exH started sleeping on the couch at night. No explanations and not after an argument or anything. He did it for months, then finally blew up at me one night saying he was leaving because We’re Just Roommates! Heck, I’d just been giving him his space, trying not to pressure him, wondering all that time what I had done wrong. Now I know it must’ve been so he could tell Schmoopie that I had kicked him out of our bedroom. What a LIE.

    • This is what new husbands XW did..she said she needed to sleep in another room because the baby was keeping her awake…so he worked all day and cared for their child all evening and all night…then when he got the speech, she said that their sep had already started because they were sleeping in different rooms.

      • I was eight months pregnant with our first son when then hubby moved out of our bedroom. He never came back. He had excuses galore, but in the end, he preferred to sleep on a pull out next to his homemade bar.

        I lived the next 16 years like that. Our big king-sized bed became our “family” bed; sans dickhead who opted to be alone with his rant TV shows and booze in the basement.

        • Eeeeeeew.
          At least you had your babes with you!
          Boy did he miss out, on like, everything that can be beautiful in life!

    • My ex did this too. He slept on the couch so he could talk/text her at night without me knowing about it. When I pulled the phone records, it was shown to be true.

      • Oh my god SarBear, I just pissed myself laughing. I think we married the same man. I can picture all four of his whores mopping down their faces from all that lovely ejaculate. Not my problem any more, and for the information of all the sad cheaters out there: NO, it’s not good for the skin.

        • That I’d truly disgusting and I hope the OW develops self respect at some point. Your poor daughter, having to see that.

        • Yes SarBear, “gag” says it all. So sorry your poor daughter has to deal with this shit. It’s just awful.
          What you said about the OW is fucking funny though. I’d love the opportunity to say the same thing to my lot (and there’s enough of them to make up a basketball team). Crusty hair? Bloodshot eyes? Yummy, what a lovely image. I wonder if she went to the doctor to get eye-drops for her Cumjunctivitis. That’s got to be a common affliction among OWs. Must cost them a bloody fortune in hair-repair products too.

      • with brave wings…one night, exactly one week before the entire jig was up, with me still in the dark and our daughter harboring the secret she was afraid to tell me about, we traveled to a city as a family for a college football game. We stayed in a really nice suite, but it only had one bedroom with a king size bed and then a separate living room with a couch. Our son stayed at his college dorm, but our daughter was with us. The first night, she slept on this tiny, uncomfortable couch. The second night, dear hubby offered for her to sleep in bed with me and he’d take the couch in the living room. Hmmmmmmmm…strange. He would NEVER do something like that. I thought…wow, that was nice of him. Not really. I now know he slept on the uncomfy couch so he could connect with his adulteress. He did a lot for her that he wouldn’t do for us. My daughter later told me that when she returned to her college, her roommates (who knew and again, I didn’t) asked if anything seemed out of place. She said no, except that her dad offered to sleep on the uncomfortable couch. Other than the couch thing, he even made a remark that weekend how happy he was to have his family around him. OMG, the deception. A week later, our daughter came home for the weekend specifically to tell me about the text she accidentally got a gander of on his phone the month before. She was clever enough to catch part of her name, do some “creeping” and had all the info I needed to confront him. And then it all made sense…his irritability, impatience with me, the additional drinking, his moodiness, the couch at the suite. Every damn little thing. And then our lives unraveled.

    • Mine too! She moved into another room because she wanted to stay up most of the night. When she would come to bed she would wake me up, so for me she moved into another room. You know going to bed at 10 is so lame and no fun. Then she would sleep for hours during the day while I worked. Of course it was my fault she moved out! Bat S*** crazy!

      • Mine slept on the couch for about four, maybe five, years.

        But withholding was always a problem, starting about a year into our 11-year relationship. I’d try to talk, then escalate to crying, fighting, suggesting therapy, blaming myself for not being thin enough, fun enough, happy enough, etc.

        He always had a good excuse as to why he didn’t want to be with me: my depression (after I was laid off) was bringing him down, I didn’t make enough money, we fought too much, he’s tired/stressed from work. It cycled through several excuses, depending on what suited him best. It was usually my particular failing that was somehow to blame.

        I type this note from my new hot pink couch in my new apartment. So the giant, empty house is gone and the facade of the fake life has disappeared. The one thing I have back is my dignity, even if I’m short on dishes, money, a “husband” and long on time to fill.

        I cringe when I think about all those lonely, lonely nights alone in bed when I was a newlywed, confused, anxious. It was sick. He was sick. None of those excuses were true. But I’ve accepted I’ll never really know why. It really feels good though – the one thing I have left to hold on to – to finally make good on treating myself well and walking out on his disordered, withholding ass.

        • I have an extra set of dishes I can certainly send to you. I don’t know your taste – I am trying to simplify. And I would love to help. Don’t know how to get in touch with you – CL, can you assist if she would like them?

          • That’s so kind of you, Sah. Very meaningful to have a fellow chump make such a thoughtful offer. I’ll be ok, though. It’s just a part of life to dismantle when this happens then to rebuild. I’m ok cycling through the same three bowls for now – just glad to have bowls and a second chance 🙂

            • I felt the need to dismantle as well. Still got the house but tossed the dishes, flatware, sheets, towels. He took one sofa so I moved the other one me back into the living room and bought a slip cover. He had tons of crap and with it gone as well as nearly everything that reminded me of him this place is pretty empty but like you said I’m rebuilding and I am just so glad for the security no chance.

    • So many others with their cheaters sleeping on the couch. Mine did too. And like you, confirmed he was doing all his sexting during that time, after I went to bed. He would come home, shower, eat dinner, then fall asleep on his couch for hours. I thought he was just tired from working all day. I thought WOW he is sleeping a lot! Always said he was fine, no depression, nothing was wrong. Morning after morning I would wake up to an empty bed. He would just say he fell asleep watching tv. Hindsight: RED FLAG – someone who claims to be sleeping 13 hours a day on the couch.

      The sick thing, when we divorced and he arrived with moving truck, I told him to take his couch. He started to move it, paused, and said “maybe I don’t want this, the memory of where I spent the last 3 years of my life.” Pathetic.

      • I was the one who started sleeping on the couch. He’d come home, ignore us all/get pissy if we interacted with him too much, and play video games for hours before going to bed, where he’d watch ESPN. I’d stay downstairs as long as I could, until I was sure he was asleep. WHEN I’d go up with him, he’d ignore me. If I snuggled him, he’d turn over. I’d rather accidentally (knowing I’d usually fall asleep but I wasn’t TRYING to… I was tired, just biding my time until I’d thought he’d fallen asleep) fall asleep on the couch, watching some sort of Brit TV on Netflix like Midsomer Mysteries, than go up to bed… only to be immediately and repeatedly ignored and rejected.

        He’d wake me up in the middle of the night, pissed that I wasn’t in bed where I belonged. HE felt lonely without me in bed. ?? Yeah? Well, *I* feel lonely IN it WITH you. But as long as YOU don’t feel lonely…

  • Got 99…..oh how I needed that….. hilarious!!

    Chumptastic, Welcome, sorry you have to be here. But you will like us. Really. We are the most gut wrenchingly honest people you will meet. We understand and we have been where you are.

    It isn’t you….it is ALL him… read and reread what Chump Lady wrote. I K of its like a bitch slap in the face….but you need one. You know like in the 3 stooges where the three guys would slap them back into reality.

    I’m 3 years out of it….but still in it….still not divorced. I felt as you did. But I see clearly now….it is him. I was a good wife and mother. I didn’t deserve what crumbs he gave. I’m out…it’s freeing. I love my self now.
    You will get there….

  • They have to come up with a shitty reason to devalue you – and what better way to do it, than to be a passive-aggressive douchebag, then blame it on you?
    Fact is, you could offer it to him 5x a day, and he’d probably still cheat.

    • Truth, Lania. Cheaters come from great marriages that have all sorts of great sex. In my marriage though sex never got better. It should! Don’t get me wrong but ex never grew into the man I deserved. Looking back though he treated me like an object (one clue you are married to a Cheater), I was sex starved, and when we had it I was so grateful…but it was when my body stopped responding to his that I knew there was something wrong. It’s like my body knew there was someone else. My ex watched a lot of porn too which affected him. So sex, yes. Intimacy and a good time, no. And Cheaters withhold. Reciprocity is not on the Disordered’s radar. Thing is they like sneaking around with like-minded immoral POS. New, strange, WTFever.

  • GOT 99 problems , please send the letter that you got from the OW ‘s mom to CL for the UBT translator!! I can not wait!!! These assholes are incredible the older they get the worst! I think it is better buying a “sex toy” and buy
    the eggs if we want to procreate. SOB ! Chumptastic get a pitbull lawyer folllow CL instructions go to the doctor and take care of yourself. I send you a lot of hugs! I wish we could do a
    secret chump concention where we can eat, talk, laugh & get advise. Hugs

  • Chumptastic,

    Not to be dismissive of your feelings…I can relate to feeling like a used up and discarded piece of tissue paper…but the dude chose fool’s gold over REAL GOLD–i.e. you. Just remember that. You were the faithful spouse. You were the one willing to talk about why sex wasn’t happening. You were his friend for YEARS!

    As CL points out, the day will come when your husband will need to cash in–like when he is old and sick. Fool’s gold doesn’t get you very far…just saying.

    Keep your head up! You’re the real steal…not the flim-flam fool’s gold.


    • I agree with all of that. The problem is I feel like I’m the one who is going to end up alone after being the faithful spouse for years, trying to improve the marriage, and keep it all together. He will probably move on, while I end up alone, lonely and broke. I don’t ever want to get married again, but I would like someone in my life. I crave real intimacy and you don’t get that from short term relationships, which isn’t my style anyway. I just hate that he traded MY future for his bad choices.

      • Carmella1722,

        What you DO know is that you won’t have to live with someone actively attacking your well-being through infidelity and lies. It is better to be alone, IMO, than stuck in such madness. Plus, you do not know that you will not meet someone else and connect.

        I get that things are scary now. But the Giant of Fear is a liar. He is telling you that it is just going to get worse. Living with someone who views you with contempt and cheats on you is a far worse future, IMO, than living alone without the hassle of wasted energy on him.

        Don’t let barrow tomorrow’s troubles. We do not know the future. All we know is our present and past. Cling to the good you are experiencing now. Embrace the person who God made you as…for that person is pretty great…she goes all in and values people and relationships and fidelity.

        Blessings on your journey…

  • This is almost exactly my story too. My therapist says the only thing I did wrong was stay too long. It is almost a year since he moved out of my house and into hers, and things are soooo much better! My kids and I are more relaxed and we laugh more. He is a problem you don’t need and you will realize this with time. All will be well, wait and see….

    • Pretty close to mine too and my therapist said the same thing. Was denied after I needed a hysterectomy for ovarian cancer. Then it was thrown in my face as he packed to leave. Yeah, like I purposely got cancer. I never denied him and tried to address it but he wouldn’t talk about it. But it was all my fault in the end.

      • I am so sorry that the person who should have been there for you was a dishonorable ass. Hell would be too good of a place for him! I hope you are fully recovered from your cancer and are enjoying a cheater free life.

        • Thank you. X

          I’m fully recovered but it’s like he even ruined the joy of that in the end. I kept my life but lost my marriage. I hate to admit this but there’s been times when I’m really down that I wished I’d never woken up from surgery. I’m not proud of that feeling but it’s there.

          • Lina… I don’t know if I can speak for the others here at CN… but *I* am very glad you woke up from that surgery. Depression is real common after cancer – I went through it too. Then you add his douchetastic behavior and it feels like the hell will never end. But it will. I swear on a stack of IKEA catalogs that it will get better. Sending you big long-distance hugs 🙂

          • Lina, I am so happy you are healthy and woke up and found Chump Nation. You are such an incredibly sweet person and I am looking forward to the day you reach Meh.
            Our stories have similarities.
            In 2012, sex became abusive and then after a total hysterectomy and no hormone replacement, because everything was pre cancerous and I have to go back to the surgeon yearly for checks because they could not get everything. X wasband became more abusive in every way and would with hold sex when I wanted to be close and comforted. I was tossed out like yesterdays trash less than ten months later.
            Our x wasbands work in the same industry.
            The real estate issues are so stressful.
            We are both committed to taking care of our sick elderly parents.
            I believe we both do creative things… did you say you make costumes?
            Some day, we are going to chat about the things we are creating and the shit storms will be nothing but a blur in the rear view mirror.
            You are so mighty and brave to have come this far. Keep on stepping forward!

            • Sah, so glad that your surgery went well. Sending you healing (((hugs))).

              Thank you Echo. Did you get my email? We do have so much in common. I do make costumes, although I haven’t been able to do anything creative lately because of the mess my Dad’s insurance company has made of his stay in “short term” rehab. It’s to the point where I’ve had to get lawyers involved and I’m so stressed out and depressed again. Up now at three am. Can’t sleep. My life has become a nightmare.

    • Yes, truth, because a Fine High Quality Human (Chump) only has so much energy to give! Now your energy can go to yourself, your kids, your family who has your back, and to the world at large. Cheater can go enjoy all that so-called freedom he/she wanted so badly! We get to focus on much more important things.

  • Dear Chumptastic,

    This may hurt so I apologize in advance. YOU were the perfect woman for him. YOU were supposed to make him happy. YOU were supposed to make everything wonderful. Look at all the sacrifices HE made, all the hard work HE put into everything, when was HE going to get what HE felt HE deserves?

    Notice how all the expectations are on YOU and how HE takes credit for all the work? HE punished YOU for not living up to HIS expectations by withholding sex (YOU haven’t earned it)!

    HIS pattern is: I gave you me, you’ve already been paid so now deliver what I expect, what I deserve!

    Now all of HIS unrealistic hopes and expectations are on the OW; SHE will have to be perfect woman and SHE will fail to meet HIS expectations.

    You didn’t do anything wrong, you’re not broken — you’re free.

  • Chumptastic,

    Hey! We must be married to the same asshat! I received those same statements and behaviors from my serial cheating 20+yr marriage spouse.

    Magic Boner! Classic, CL. Chumptastic, this IS what it is all about for these male cheaters. I assume it’s the Magic Pussy/Rectum of Wonder for the female cheaters. The entire BS of you, chump, not meeting their needs and therefore they must seek them elsewhere is a load of shit, dumped onto you. Come on. Really?! We all have had our needs unmet, and yet we, the chumps, did not go out and fuck the neighborhood.

    I agree with you, Chumptastic that you feel used up. You gave your cheater your youth, your career aspirations, your future. Recognize this loss and all the grief associated with it. Now get MAD and ANGRY. Use this energy to propel you forward into a better life. Because really your asshat took all the gifts you gave him to create a terrific life that you thought was mutually reciprocal and duped you. What you feel right now is your smashed self esteem. The person who did this to you was the one you trusted implicitly. Understand that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. Understand that your traits of honesty, integrity and the capacity to love were the things he sought because he lacks them.

    Get a lawyer. Get a therapist. You need to go 100% Jackie Chan on his ass. He didn’t consider you at all. You need to focus on considering yourself and get it legally documented.

    Eventually all these Magic Boner dudes succumb to prostate issues with age.

  • Sounds like maybe he just was looking for a replacement for a very long time, and he just didn’t have the balls to get a divorce until he found another chump.

    It may not seem like it right now, but you’ve been handed a gift: you just lost nearly 200lbs of cheater that didn’t value you. That’s a lot of dead weight to be carrying around all the time.

    In time you will see.

  • Thank you for the warm welcome!! Chump Lady – thank you most of all. I was just getting ready to hit “send” on an email to acknowledge our 20th anniversary (it’s today), and decided to read your blog first…..divine intervention much??? I will instead be deleting that shit. That response was exactly what I needed to rattle my chump brain into reality.

    You all are wondrous super heroes!

    • Chumptastic – that guy is an ***ASSHAT***!!!

      I beg you, do NOT send him, ANYTHING!

      If there are things you don’t like about your situation, please be mighty and change them FOR YOU, not for as asshat. If you want to lose weight, plan your future so you feel less lost, whatever it is, do it because it’s for YOU, because YOU want it.

      His opinion should have no influence on your life, because his opinion has no value. The stock of that asshat is literally now worth $0.00 to anyone with real integrity (you know – to people like you!).

    • Chumptastic…glad you shared this date with us. Its a thing, but it doesn’t have to be a thing that rips your heart out – you are doing better than I was at the 20 yr mark, I was still clinging to the decaying shreds that were the zombie of my dead marriage.

      We met at the hotel where we spent our wedding night…I drove in but he flew in from the city where he was living 3000 miles away…he reassured me that he didn’t “live” there (he had an apt, furniture, a coffee pot, vacuum cleaner) and that he surely never saw OW (who had a job there but she mostly lived in Seattle) but I was so Chumpariffic, I actually believed that they didn’t see each other then (cue the pity for my absurd denial) we were wreckonciling you see, we were a couple. (Uh, no, he was a cake eating cheater ass and you were a cake dispenser).

      I remember being afraid that the innkeepers would figure out that my husband didn’t live with me and they might think that meant that I was a bad wife <—stupidest thought in the universe. and I stayed another 6 years—wtf.

    • Dearest Chumpastic,

      I gasped as I read your story, as it is my story too. As soon as my STBX husband and I got married he LITERALLY stopped having sex with me. Nothing on our wedding night ( I put this down to perhaps he was tired) and nothing on our honeymoon (we held hands, he bought me jewellery). I was concerned but not too much as we’d had sex prior to marriage (about once a week). I always wanted more sex but figured that we could compromise to about 2x weekly.

      I always thought that men wanted sex, so when mine didn’t want it I freaked out. He assured me that it wasn’t anything to do with me: I was still sexy and desirable. As a matter of fact, we weren’t having sex because:
      * He was tired
      * He felt fat (he is overweight)
      * He has performance anxiety
      * He was worried about satisfying me
      * He had a headache
      * He was under enormous pressure at work.
      * He was small “down there.”
      * He was diagnosed with diabetes and had to control his blood sugar first.

      Soon, the reason became me:
      *I was fat
      * I was pressuring him
      * I needed to shave
      * I needed to STOP shaving (the new growth irritated his groin…)
      * I needed to wear sexier panties (I did)
      * I needed to wear no panties
      *I was too “wet” down there and that it was “gross”

      I danced. Literally and figuratively. I booked sessions with therapists and doctors to find out what was wrong.I assured him that if there was a problem that I we would work through it together because I truly loved him. My reasoning was, if he’d been in an accident and couldn’t walk or have sex, I wouldn’t abandon him. I just needed to know what was going on with him and our sex life. I literally danced too, taking up pole dancing classes to excite my husband. (Note that I did everything. Red flag!)

      When I would get frustrated we’d have sex (“see, it’s not 3 months we didn’t have sex – we did it yesterday!). He would cry and tell me that he felt inadequate and I would console him. I would get angry that he didn’t follow through with his doctor’s/therapist appointment and he would sob, telling me that he was embarrassed and didn’t want to discuss his problem with a stranger.

      He soooo couldn’t discuss his problem with a stranger that he *drum roll*


      I was incredulous. Maybe it’s an emotional affair, I thought. Nope. I found the sexts where he complains that he and his Magical SoulMate didn’t fuck in two days. How they have a bucket list of places to fuck. How he enjoys her. How he loves the smell of her pu$$y. How he needs her. How he keeps her panties in his drawer so that he can sniff her (I found said panties).

      He then dumped me via text. Abandoned our 2 small children. Put us out of the house. Moved her and her brood in. I am beyond hurt. In moments of clarity I know that the problem is on him. I tried. But then…..

      What was so special about her? The problem must have been me, because he fucks her (and I later found out prostitutes). But never me. Men would whistle at me, but the STBX would reject me. This has and continues to play with my head.

      He said that he was depressed since 2008, that the marriage was shit and that we were like room mates. *ouch*. Yet he started a family with me. I’ve resigned myself to never knowing and try not to untangle his web of fuckedupness. But it does hurt. What I realised is that I was the one doing all the heavy lifting in the relationship with ever shifting goal posts. It was doomed for failure.

      Chumptastic, Dress up. Get your nails done. Get a make over. Dye your hair that colour you’ve always longed to try. Eat at that new restaurant. Learn a new language. Do something for YOU.

      Like my STBX, your wasband can FUCK OFF. (((hugs))). xxx Cyn.

      • I just wanted to tell you that i’m sorry you had someone abuse you like that! No one deserves to be treated that way.

      • Cynamon–some guys have a Madonna/Whore complex that kicks in upon marriage. Nothing to do with you. I suspect he started frequenting prostitutes right after the marriage (if not before), and THAT is the real reason for lack of sex.

        He is a sick bastard, and I’m sorry you had to undergo so many years of gaslighting. Write in lipstick on your bathroom mirror: “It was not my fault.”

      • Your story is so similar to mine. It does bring some solace to know this is not uncommon. It’s definitely them. They would have done this to whoever they married.

      • Tempest has it, I was shocked when I first heard of the Madonna/ whore complex.

        My ex husband was such the prim and proper upright Christian, would not do anything that was considered inappropriate during our engagement. Took him for ever to get to it on our wedding night, I just thought he was nervous being a virgin. I was left feeling confused when he vomited as soon as we finished having sex.

        It didn’t happen straight away the first 6-8 years were ok there were breaks due to children. But it never got better, familiar, comfortable. It was always mechanical. I got all the excuses as Cynamon did, work stress, tired etc. but I also got I don’t want to have sex because I get to hot and then I can’t sleep and feel sick. Yes I had to choose between sex and his wellbeing. If I wanted sex I was made to feel guilty.
        After d’day I found it was mechanical, because he was fantasising about doing it with a dude while with me. That did a crap load for my self esteem in the very beginning. Especially because for years I had literally begged him for more intimacy in our marriage and he only complied to deflect my frustration and play me along.

        I was the expectation of the prim Christian wife, producing children and providing the clean cut righteous home life (Madonna) oh and God help me if I showed signs of stepping out of that role. While he was out playing the whore, keeping it secret for years.

        He has already hooked his new Madonna, she will do a far better job than I did she is mega passive and needy. But people with open minds doubt he has stopped being the whore despite his claims.

        • @Thankful: I actually wondered if the STBX was gay. Re: our sex life, it didn’t get better. Like you said, it was quite mechanical. I tell myself that now he’s gone, I have an opportunity to have a REAL relationship.


          • Yes to understand that a future relationship will be very different to the marriage I had with ex.

            Ex was a “virgin” when we married. I had had partners prior to becoming a Christian and meeting him, so I knew how males behaved in a relationship. I think now looking back this is why I was so frustrated with what was happening in my marriage.

            Looking forward to the future.

      • Gawd! I hate him for you Cynamon! But to be fair it must be awful being him. If I had the kind of thought process that he had my head would want to explode just trying to make the connections. What a wicked dark evil person he is. That kind of evil never changes. Pay no attention to what you may hear going forward. I hate that you are left with self doubt and distrust. You were to him the kind of partner you need now. Love yourself in every way.Bless.

  • Hey Ctastic
    I’m your exact age and was married for 21 years when the sex stopped. I had a cervical spine injury and recently had a hysterectomy. Tried every hormone cream – bio identical, the patch and finally hormone replacement pills. I acknowledge there were medical issues that contributed to the lack of sex for a time (in sickness and in health ….that vow was never acknowledged). Neither was extreme financial irresponsibility on his part (nothing says “Hey Baby” like losing your home).

    I, too, was discarded – for his high school girlfriend – and she left her family to be with my ex loser.

    I realized after the fact that cheating might have been occurring throughout our marriage. He was not the moral and committed partner he pretended to be. He parroted my values.

    It’s hard work coming out of all that excrement. I have good days and not so good ones. But lonely, old, and overweight (lost 20 pounds so far on my new health regime!) – still better off than with that idiot.

    Chin up Ctastic. This wasn’t my fault and it certainly wasn’t yours. It was his lack of character that led him to make those decisions. He’s a jerk. I hope his member shrivels up and falls off – just like his brain did.

    • I hope his member shrivels up and falls off- just like his brain did. Made me laugh, thank you. I am still smiling. So funny. I hope my EX’s balls do the same. LOL I have been depressed lately not sure why. I hate these roller coaster emotions. I should be celebrating as well. Thank You CL for this blog it has helped me tremendously!

      • Hanginginthere, it’s the time change! We are a nation of sun deprived overworked people. Just remember life is in the little details. Go hang at a coffee house, get out with a friend, do something you love. (Grieving the end of a relationship–even with disordered!– is hard work, takes time, and it’s what us normal people do.)

      • Hanginthere–the moods cycle, sometimes by week, sometimes by day, sometimes by hour. Accept them all, and just make sure you’re engaging in self-care, no matter whether the predominant emotion is rage or depression. And keep your supporters close; you’ll need them at both ends of the emotional extremes.

  • Chumptastic, please believe me when I say the sex is not the real problem he had to use to justify his selfishness. My now XH and I had sex 5 times week right up until the BD. It was great sex, and even so he got his head wrapped in a fantasy of a Thai bitch he met online and believed was his soulmate. My self esteem plunged because even though he had never met her in person and it wasn’t a physical but an emotional affair he dumped me after only a couple weeks so that he could be with his soulmate.

    Never mind that she couldn’t speak English, had completely different culture and religion he was gone already in his mind we were over and there was nothing I could say or do to change it. Just as you, my XH told me that I was his “best friend, great wife and we have a wonderful relationship”. Uhm, I thought isn’t that what everyone wants in a marriage? We held hands daily, laughed, played and worked together and had sex all the time, he told me he loved me so everyone including me thought we had a great marriage.

    When BD came I hadn’t a clue, there were no red flags( that’s right even looking back upon reflection to this day I couldn’t have known it was coming!) It nearly killed me that he would throw away 20 yrs together for someone he didn’t even know. It is a terrible rejection to then have them become so cruel treating you like you are nothing. I got the fucked up version of “I love you but I’ve NEVER been in love with you”. Oh yeah, and I lost not only my husband, but my best friend. Now of course realize he never could have been my best friend.

    I want you to know that I divorced and was given no choice, but I also am overweight, graying a bit, few wrinkles etc. yet I have had numerous men want to date me because of my personality, they are interested in me not just my body. I had sex with XH all those years and maybe was spoiled with the frequency, but I can tell you the first boyfriend I was with after divorce showed me that there is a HUGE difference between having sex and making love.

    Many beautiful, intelligent, fantastic women get cheated on, IT IS NOT YOU! You deserve to be treated, respected, loved and made love to by someone who shows it with their actions, and when the right person loves you they will want to be with you passionately, and thus feel a deep connection with you.

    • spiritwoman, the reason he shacked up with that parasitic third world bint, is because she doesn’t need to be able to speak a word of any language if his dick is in her mouth. Also, she can’t fight back from king shithead being the centre of the universe.
      Delusional, the lot of them! Its not your fault. Ever.

  • Chumptastic,
    Its hard. I mean really hard not to compare yourself to the OW. Especially if they are younger. Mine is 27 years younger. Firmer ass. Check. Firmer boobs. Check. No neck waddle. Check. No grannie panties. Check. You can create a list a mile long. Yep. They are younger , you are older and the world keeps spinning. No one cares. You are just bitter, you should have kept yourself up, you let yourself go, you arent sexy…. Do you want me to continue …. Cause that list is as long. STOP. Stop comparing. Stop the what ifs. Stop the dialogue that keeps you down.

    You are only 4 months into this mess and in my opinion still freshly wounded. You will focus on the things that you cant change. The things that keep you in a physical and emotional trap. Things that you have you have accepted as truths about yourself. He and potentially she will use those beliefs to keep you in the game. Dont play. Turn the volume down. Listen to you. You are enough.

    You are enough.
    In my darkest hours I tell myself that. That I am enough. That I deserve love. That I deserve an honest and authentic life. I am a year and a half out and still have painful moments. Lonely moments. They dont go away easily. I cry. Then it passes. It took a long time to get to that point. But I am ok. I am enough. And so are you.

    • The Clip, who wouldn’t want a feisty intelligent authentic woman?!?! We Are Enough. (And probably more!! Chump MO and all…. 😉 )

    • The ones who pull the blameshifting shit, there are only two words for them: FUCK OFF.
      They are usually self absorbed pricks too.

  • I can definitely relate to your story Chumptastic. My STBX didn’t touch me during these last two years and I can count on one hand the times we did have sex over the 5-6 yrs. After discovering his serial cheating, what hurts even more is the fact that he withheld sex on purpose. He deliberately denied me.

    He saw all the tears, read all my letters ( thankfully I was able to find a few, and one went back 2 yrs ago and I’ve put those in my divorce file for later ) and knew how it made me feel to be only roommates . We were good roommates, good “friends”, but each time I tried to bring up the subject he would turn it back on me saying that he was sorry he was just too tired and too stressed and that it was all about me. In the most hateful tone while he marched out of the room, with his porn tablet of course.

    But even though my needs weren’t being met, I never once cheated. Never once created a dating profile as I later discovered all of his. Never once sexted with strange men or hung out in bars. But of course he knew that I wouldn’t do that, which I believe only gave him some perverse pleasure on top of cheating behind my back. He shot my self esteem and destroyed my trust. I have a lot to work on with myself to repair all of that damage, but I’ll get there and so will you. One of the last texts I sent to him around 2 months ago was “Despite the pleasure it gave you to devalue me, I still know that I am valuable. I am enough. I just wasn’t with the man who realized that value.” Your husband didn’t realize your value either, but you are valuable, worthy, and mighty.

  • It’s just an excuse! My ex-wife said something along those lines. Actually, when I asked her why she cheated she blurted out, “It’s all because of sex.” Well, that was probably the truest thing she said but it still didn’t hold water because it all boils back down to selfishness and entitlement. She made sex her paramount value so her statement probably made a whole lot of sense to her. But to us who are not disordered, it’s nonsense. Cut him loose.

    Hey Chumptastic, my anniversary was a month after D-Day, so I know it might be a tough day for you. Hang in there.

  • Funny this should come up as the topic today! My Ex used lack of sex and lack of communication in his counter suit for divorce. I was livid! How could we communicate or have sex when he was always on his computer and Facebook with Schmoopie?

    The irony was that the day he came home from his “business trip” which was nothing more than a three day fuckfest with his new AP, I had decided to sit down with him to discuss this very issue and make some suggestions to liven things up! It was then that he told me where he had really been and with who and that he was in love with her! I was blown away! My whole being crumbled. I couldn’t breathe. I was devastated!

    This idiot would get off his computer occasionally taking a break from sexting Schmoopie to tell me we were like brother and sister! He would do this with a smirk on his face and then when I would get upset, he would say, “I’m just kidding!” No, he wasn’t! Those “breaks” from sexting were his justification for heading back to the computer and giving Schmoopie an update on his “sexless” marriage!

    Point here is Chumplady is right! Now he is 60 years old, divorced and Schmoopie kicked his ass to the curb when he found out he had pancreatic cancer and diabetes and he is impotent! She realized the “romance and fantasy” was gone and REAL life had hit them both right in the face! Their so-called “love” was based on lust and harlequin romance novels. Not wiping his butt and getting operations for cancer!

    Needless to say he is back in my neck of the woods and wants to come home! I guess if I were him that’s what I would want also, my old life back! This ex-wife has the house, the assets and he has nothing! Not even a job! He quit his job to be with rich bitch Schmoopie! Oh, he’s still and will always be impotent! Lovely! And he wants me to accept that he gave what he did have sexually away to some stinking cheating whore! Ummm…. NO!

    Chumplady is spot on! They don’t know what to do once the “charm” goes limp! It was the basis for his whole relationship with ho bag! But he refuses to see that. These guys are fools! And the bitches that sleep with them are scum sucking gold diggers! They deserve what they get! Go beg Schmoopie to take you back! Oh! Sorry…..she’s moved on to her next idiot mark! Oh well, sucks to be 60, sick, old and stupid to boot!

    • Roberta…I have been wondering about you lately…I was afraid that you let him move back in and you didn’t want to tell us. You know what yesterday was…Semper Fidelis Day…yea, “always faithful” to what or who…it feels a special kick in the teeth. Oooh fucking Rah.

      So where does your X now hang his hat?

      • Think he found a bed at one of his old co-workers home, but he’s hoping to get to my daughters house in No. Va. Yep! Semper Fi to my tarnished Marine!

    • I got the similar excuse Roberta. I was told I was a prude (and he has told all his friends the same)…BUT – when he comes home at 11:30 5 nights a week (no exageration) from the bar smelling like beer and cigarettes, not to mention the fact that I have already been sleeping for the past hour and a half – what the fuck does he expect? He had full ‘access’ when he was in bed at a decent hour…. and SOBER (which was rare anyway).
      Fuck that! Yuk!

  • Roberta, do not even say hi to him! Do not let him in your house! He is a bastard! Forgive but do not forget! Not in thanksgiving not in X-mas! If you have family get out of town!!

    • Once my XH started cheating, he stopped coming to bed at a reasonable time, gloating because he only needed 5 hours of sleep and telling me there was something wrong with me for needing 7. He slept in and never helped get kids off to school or worked a normal workday. When I got the speech about him not being in love with me, he told me I had rejected him for sex thousands of times. I could only think of 4 times I had said “not tonight” in 25 years but he wanted to count all the times he came to bed 2 hours later after long phone calls with the AP, and I was asleep and on my side. That counted as rejection in his little book of fault finding. Is this sounding crazy? Yep, it was. That’s why no contact is such a healing choice; it stops the crazy talk.

  • Ah, memories. My marriage turned sexless toward the end and x condescendingly explained that as men get older (late 40s), this happens. Of course, at the same time he had so many women on the hook over the years that I literally had to create a spreadsheet to keep it all straight.

    Now to today. I just tried something that might help you, an idea inspired by Spartan Life Coach. I’ve been feeling down lately and didn’t do some things as well as I should. So someone else stepped in. Cue the angry, toxic, self-shredding internal voice. I started to just listen instead of reacting and was shocked by how cruel and enraged this inner voice was. Then I pictured someone leaping out of the shadows and beating the living shit out of it. My mental picture is a muppet or Seuss like creature with a long neck. I saw its wide eyed shock as it was righteously pummeled. Maybe I was channeling TheClip but it felt so good I actually laughed.

    This could be a sign of insanity but that inner voice was so over the top, so merciless, such a contributor to my struggles that I felt it really deserved it. If this doesn’t sound too much like madness, maybe give it a try. It sounds like you might have a really mean inner voice too that deserves to be beaten and silenced.

    And congratulations on not sending that note.

    • Not a Muppet!!! Picture something evil, instead–Voldemort or Sauron or Darth Vader, but not a Muppet!

      Ohana–I’m laughing at your therapeutic images (especially as I think of you as one of the voices of reason and goodness in CN).

      • No worries, Tempest. I think my brain made the images a little ridiculous to help demonstrate how absurd that inner critic really is.

        I didn’t want to bring the Muppets into it, either. They don’t deserve that! Especially poor Beaker, who often demonstrates that look of wide-eyed shock. But Beaker would never deserve a beating. Dr, Benson Honeydew….maybe??????

        Anyway, all good. I kinda laugh at the images, too.

    • Holy crap… Didnt mean to bring out the demons! I hope the channeling was a good thing???!!! That the muppet was killing your bad thoughts???
      I am trying to picture a muppet… A bad ass muppet…all I can think of is ‘ Animal.’ Animal jumping from the shadows screaming in his limited dialect ‘ BAD THOUGHTS! BAD THOUGHTS! ‘ and jumping all over them.

      • TheClip, you did NOT bring out the demons. You helped kick their ass. The person leaping out from the shadows was a protector, someone who shut the toxicity down in a no-holds barred way that reminded me of your posts. Given they are fantasy and no one is actually getting tagged or beaten in a parking lot, I have to say your comments usually make me laugh in delight at the picture of justice being meted out so unambiguously. Not something to advocate in real life, but here I think it is great. Empowering. And really funny.

      • I can totally see Animal beating the crap out of bad thoughts (but took Ohana to be saying her demons were depicted as a Muppet. Say it ain’t so!! I love the Muppets. Try to stay in a bad mood while listening to Mahna Mahna–you can’t).

  • Hi Chumptastic–

    My Cheater was never in sexual overdrive throughout our entire marriage. In fact, he had kidney stones fairly early into the marriage, and during a trip to the urologist, he had a couple of medical students in on the exam who remarked that regular sex (at least once or twice a week) is important for boy parts. Even at that point in the marriage, I knew I wasn’t getting enough, and like CL said, I made my needs smaller because it was more important to me to have someone who loved and cared for me.

    I also learned his rules for sex: he had to initiate. If I did, he was too tired, too busy, whatever. WTF?

    Bottom line is that while some Chumps are having terrific sex with their Cheaters, all the while not knowing about the affair, a lot of Chumps are denied sex, and when they try to talk about sex, their Cheaters won’t engage with them in an honest, but difficult, conversation.

    The difference between Cheater and Chump is that while the Chump tries to compromise his/her own needs while the Cheater just finds someone to fuck.

    Your STBX is a POS. You’ll be happier without him, and you’ll meet someone who can love the fine woman you are.

    • Yes, after marriage I learned quickly that I was not allowed to initiate sex. Sometimes he would turn me down, and I would be hurt, and then he would change his mind. It was like he had to hurt me first before he could do me.

  • As a side note I must mention, and many of my CN folks know already, that during his affair I was diagnosed with lung cancer and then contracted MRSA. And where was he while I was in the hospital or recuperating alone at home with visiting healthcare nurses??? He was still running to Schmoopie and kicking it with her! Schmoopie and fucktard were discussing my possible death with his divorce attorney! Oh yes! Schmoopie was cc’d on all his correspondence with his attorney! Schmoopie sent him medical articles on my particular type of cancer and assured him it was “no big deal!” I heard NOTHING but crickets from that asshole! Oh but now I’m supposed to feel extra sorry for dumbfuck now that he is sick and needs help! Really???? Where is your good little sweet ho baby?? Isn’t that her job now? Yep! I see. It’s not fun and sexy anymore! You’re broke, unemployed and a real drag!

    I know it sounds bitchy, but I hope he feels every sadness I felt and then some! He and his little side piece created this pile of shit! Let him wallow in it alone!

    Did I mention that his wealthy little ho bag cleaned out his bank accounts? Oh yes, she cared so very much for him that she left her “Twu wuv” sick and without a penny to his name! Ain’t she the best???

    • An eye for an eye Roberta. I hope you keep that spunk and rub it in his face that he is NOT allowed back into your life. He chose that path – let him walk it alone. His greener pastures sure turned shit brown real fast, didn’t they? Awww – too bad so sad asswipe.

    • You don’t sound bitchy, Roberta. Your ex and the whore sound like two is the biggest slime buckets I’ve ever heard of, and that is saying a lot.

    • Roberta

      Badass bitch says fuck you to the asshole who discarded a wonderful loving wife. Fuck him and the whore he ended up with. You rock mighty chump!

    • Roberta, you were married to a horrible douche. Thank you so much for sharing “the Karma Bus Hitting Wasband” story.
      My x wasband started the discard when I became too ill to work. Other than abuse on every level, I have no proof of other woman (I was too sick to play P.I.) but mine did not visit me in the hospital when I was inpatient for a week and the months under the care of the VNA he was only home a couple of hours a day.
      When the shit hit the fan, I was toast mentally and physically. At my discard, the douche bag told me “I would have honored my marital vows but you did not DIE soon enough”
      At this point, I take it he was planning on me dying and making things easy for him. In retrospect, I also think that he had been playing with my medications including the catheter meds that went into my heart. This theory is a plausible explanation for the extreme confusion and inability to function prior to my discard.
      Sub humans all of them!

      • OMG! This is why I kicked my Ex out for the final time when he came back for a false reconciliation. He kept over medicating me with oxycodone and wasn’t feeding me! It was surreal! Luckily my youngest daughter insisted on getting into the house to see me and make sure I “came to” long enough to realize what was going on! Thank God for great kids!

  • I don’t think there is a marriage out there that doesn’t go through “sexless” phases. Especially when dealing with small children.. the endless parade of wiping noses and asses, stomach viruses, soccer practices, algebra homework, no sleeping phases, bottles, diapers, etc etc etc. You get the picture. Who has the time or the energy?

    While the chump is often at home slaving away keeping things in check, the cheater is out sowing his/her oats and often is neglecting more than the bedroom at home.. he’s also neglecting chores.. which makes the chump more resentful, thus less interested in sex.. it’s a cycle.

    The point is there are a MILLION ways to address this, none of which include fucking someone else. You could.

    1. Have a serious talk about needs/deal breakers/ and broker a compromise
    2. See a counselor
    3. Pick up the slack for your partner and help them more so they have more energy

    Those are just a few ideas off the top of my head.

    Point is, there is nothing any chump does that excuses cheating.. Period.

    • My marriage NEVER EVER had a sexless period; not even after giving birth, and my X was a serial cheater of epic proportions. Cheating is not predicated on marital sex, it’s predicated upon the cheater being a complete moral waste of a human being, with poor impulse control, and a streak of dishonesty a mile deep.

      • Same here. He was always wanting to sex me, but he wasn’t so good at real intimacy. That he saved for all the OW, or at least as close as he could get with his issues. I think he would reel them in with his poor little (horny) boy act. Probably told them I didn’t understand him.
        Anyway, I thought we had an awesome sex life, but what he became so interested in, obsessed with, was living on the dark side of life. He had to have the sex-with-deceit to really get a charge, and that involved lying to me, and hiding it from me and our family. To this day, he won’t admit what he did, even though I found plenty of proof, and he said once- ‘I’m probably going to Hell’. What a screwball, and what a waste.

      • Me too, Tempest. We had a fantastic sex life (often as well as adventurous … within sane and legal limits). This was partly why I was able to keep hitting the hopium pipe. In my mind, if we have a great sex life, he would have zero justification for going elsewhere.

        Well, the fact is he had zero justification with or without the sex life. If he wanted to have sex with other people, he should have mentioned that when we said our vows. Instead, we both agreed to “forsake all others” — without qualification. I trusted him to keep his vows just as he trusted me to keep mine. The problem is that only one of us intended to keep the vows (yep, chumpy me).

        So, to the letter writer (sorry, I didn’t catch the name), please know that disordered asshats like this–who are willing to break their voluntarily-given life-long commitment, lie to you to delude you into thinking you are married to a person who loves you, and then blame you for their horrific lack of integrity–they will use every excuse in the book. All of their excuses are void because they are the commitment-breakers and liars. Kind of like there “but I needed money” is not an excuse to rob a bank. Or, “but I didn’t know the answer” isn’t an excuse to cheat on an exam. You are not the commitment-breaker. You are not the liar. You have integrity and have maintained it. That is something to hang on to — something that you can take genuine pride in.

        My own asshat decided to tell me two decades after marriage that when we got married it was to take ME off of the market, not himself. Talk about an eye-opener.

  • Chumptastic, I know your situation well. I was married for 33 years. My EX moved out of our bedroom because he got more “rest” in the guest room. He took a job across the state and expected me to sell the house and follow him (Thank God that the house didn’t sell!) While I was trying to sell our house, he was having weekends in hotels with the OW (they weren’t sexual though! so he says). Told me that I obviously wasn’t interested in sex any more (what?!). I finally found his IM conversations with another woman (note to cheaters everywhere -don’t use your spouses’ computer to conduct IM chats with your affair partner). Working backwards, I figured out that he had been involved in an emotional affair with this woman since before he moved out of our bedroom. Apparently, he decided he was being unfaithful to her if he had sex with his wife. Sex for the last five years of our marriage was disappointing. I never knew whether to be humiliated for him or for me. He’s gone now (although he lives on in his childish texts and emails) and while I have no current interest in finding another partner/spouse, I am soooooo much happier. Yes, I gave up my career to follow him around in the pursuit of his career. I should have left sooner but I didn’t see it. I haven’t completely forgiven myself for staying so long but my therapist and I are working on that. Unfortunately, our young adult children have been affected by his behavior. They feel that he has abandoned them as well as me. That is the only thing that still has the power to keep me from being at “meh.”

    • I got that too – after D-Day I begged Ex to have sex with me again “one last time” and he told me condescendingly no, that wouldn’t be fair to OW. WTF? he had sex with her for months before I found out, and yes, he and I were having regular sex then too though he kept stopping halfway through and claiming to be tired. And did the sleep in the guest room because-you’re-snoring thing;

      One time I even cried, apologizing for not being able to get him off. Obviously he was already getting it elsewhere. Thing is, we had lots and lots of sex during all 16 years we were together in all the deviant ways he required; but he was also having regular sex with two old girlfriends and at least one additional OW five years before the one that I found out about. There’s not explanation other than IT’S ALL ABOUT HIM. It’s always all about the Cheater.

  • We had minimal sex for about a year – and when relations did occur, they seemed forced.

    My husband, then 54, claimed he had performance issues. I felt sorry for him, encouraged him to talk to his doctor and accepted his claim that the doc found nothing wrong – just aging (and presumably boredom of being with same partner for 33 years :))

    Husband talked about getting Viagra but never followed through. I knew he was deep into mid-life depression, worried about dying by 60 like his Dad, sad he sold his company, even though he made some money, etc. , and I didn’t want to add pressure —– SPACKLE SPACKLE SPACKLE

    In hindsight, he was about two years into his affair with his co-worker, a slutty 26 year old. In an email I inadvertently saw to our marriage counselor, he said he was in love with J and that “her love of sex is fantastic”

    Of all the lies, the “I can’t have sex with you” hurts the most……………………..

    • An affair with a 26 y/o-how pathetic. A 26 y/o that has anything to do with someone old enough to be her grandfather has too many issues to list but at the end of the day they are ALL in it for monetary gains.

      • Ya I don’t get that. I am 45 years old and the thought of dating anyone over 50 disgusts me… However, I am smart, pretty, fun, and attractive, so I can be picky. These younger women must be really hard up, ugly, gross, and stupid….Just sayin.

        • LMAO 😀 I’m no prize pig so I have no reason to be so amused. I’ll go with hard up, gross and stupid, for sure!

        • 61 years old here. I’d never date me either. For some strange reason, however, my 57 year old girlfriend seems to love me. How fucked up is that?

          • Snake is your age, Arnold, and if I didn’t know he was a gaslighting, emotionally abusive cheater, I’d still find him sexy as fuck.

            Problem is… Now I know…But you and your girlfriend should be fine.

      • I am in this same boat. 15 yrs without relations. During that time I tried a counselor, dressing right, instigating, talking, etc etc etc. He had the gall to lie about it to the mediator in our mediation–that I stopped intimacy. Don’t think so, buddy, when you shrink away when I brush up to you in passing, when you stiffen if I ever hold onto you when I’m unsteady (I have bad balance.) When you basically act like I am a leper. He hooks up with the most pitiful 25 yr old (he is 65–older than her grandfather.) Disgusting on every level. Add to that he had a “condition” -Peyronie’s disease – Mayo Clinic-look it up. Basically made his d*** turn left. And he complained sex hurt. He acted More like it was a pain. He was never very good, not attentive to my needs—acted like anything beyond missionary style was dirty. Well the little love letters I found revealed something very different! Good riddance to extra bad stinkin trash!

      • Mostly but there is also some weird daddy/daughter thing out there. These are some truly messed up young women, and men who will take advantage of them. My Ex has pedophile fantasies that he articulated to me every single time we had sex (I was in my 40s and 50s, hardly a kid). I don’t know the full extent of his actual activities beyond what he did with me, but he was very good friends with a photographer who is now serving time in state prison for having oral sex w/a a thirteen year old girl. I can’t help but wonder. But at any rate, the fact that there are girls and young women willing to hook up with older men doesn’t make it any less statutory rape if they are underage, and just plain wrong if they are legally adults, IMO.

      • My husband is 57 his whore is 35. He is her dad’s age. Which is even more weird is that her father molested her and my husband looks like his twin brother… is sooo gross.
        It a mind fuck alright.
        He is now on viagra…. and he has high blood pressure….so I hope….I hope he over medicated before we sign the papers.

    • Tired Chump: I believed that he wanted to have sex with me but couldn’t. Well he can and he did – just not with me. It truly does hurt.

  • Tired Chump, it does hurt! We were cheated in so many ways, but the whole “I can’t perform” act is especially hurtful! Then they bang the shit out of Schmoopie every chance they get! My Ex acted as if having sex with me was cheating on his old whore!! Oh well, ended up that once he got good and sick, he couldn’t screw her anymore so she dropped him like garbage and extracted his money from his bank accounts!! How romantic and loving is that???

  • And one thing fellow chumps, as I’ve been lining up my ducks , I think I have become numb to what happened and I am worried I might stay stuck with him for the benefit of kids/house/stability.

    I controlled my absolute rage after Dday to do everything I could to reconcile, but as facts came out it was way worse than I thought.

    Cleaning my phone yesterday – I found some voice messages I recorded when I was “checking up” on him being at his office a few months ago. Of course – he was not there, but told me on the phone he was – only now I knew that all those months of claiming to work late he was really screwing the OW, walking her dog and having dinner with her. But now I knew and he was still doing it!!!!

    The pain and rage in my recording is incredible. it is astounding I did not commit a felony.

    Then there was the infamous list of ho-worker J’s pros vs cons that i found:
    J’s pros were younger, sexier, new family, more compatible, like her liberalness and feisty-ness….J’s cons were Kids will hate me/ Lose TC as a friend, lose 1/2 money and house, I will be 75 when kids are 18 (assume he’s referring to new kids he’d have with J), have to get a new set of friends, my relatives will all think I made a mistake.

    I have controlled my emotions because bottom line, I wanted to get a lawyer, postunup, credit check, STD test etc. – and think about my plan for career and relocation – youngest is headed to college next year and older two are in college/ working in NYC.

    I knew if I flew off handle I would make him look justified and cause even more pain for my kids (who still do not know)

    Postnup almost signed….should be done by Thanksgiving — .but H is dragging his feet on signing and when I checked a bank account he had originally hidden from me, I see that even though he is “done” with seeing OW, he is sending her gifts including items from sexy dresses .

    Am I becoming numb to this new normal? Can you have round a second wave of denial….

    Ideas please…..
    How to get unstuck?

    • TC…

      I am too trying to give reconciliation (cautiously) a try, so I get where you are. I also got a post nup, which my H agreed wholeheartedly to give me.

      CONTACT with this whore in any shape/form should be an absolute deal breaker. The betrayal is bad enough, but trust can be rebuilt, but ONLY if someone is being HONEST going forward and has REMORSE. Continuing to send that slut dresses and gifts does NOT qualify as remorse. That looks like a first class cake eater.

      I am not big on ultimatums.. but in your case I might just say… LOOK, I can’t do this anymore, either get rid of that slut, sign the post nup or sign the divorce papers… that’s it, those are your choices, I’m FINISHED.

      I mean the list of “pros/cons” might have been enough for me, but I understand these situations are hard and I won’t judge anyone.. no one knows what this is like until they’ve lived it, but continuing to see this slut behind your back is abuse. That’s emotional abuse. It’s every bit as bad as him slugging you in the face. You need to start looking at it that way. Show him you refuse to tolerate it. Draw the boundary. Once my H realized I would divorce his ass (I signed the papers) he straightened out (although it might not last- hence the post nup). Point is, take away the fork. You have to be willing to lose this marriage if there is any hope to save it.

      Big HUGS. I know how this feels.

      • Newchumpatl, it’s amazing how they wake up once they know you will and can divorce them and take most of the assets with you! Congrats on your post nuptial getting signed. I sincerely hope you and the husband can navigate this shit storm. Mine came back holding his ass in his hands telling me the grass isn’t greener on the other side! No shit asshole! The grass is only greener if you water and nourish it! Best of Luck to you. Hope it works out.

    • Thanksgiving is only a couple of weeks away and I do not see him signing, sorry. I hope you have an attorney and file straight away. He should be outed and your kids should know what their father is, instead of some make believe Ward Cleaver. NOW is the time to break the news to your friends and family. If your husband is still sending gifts he is not “done” with his girlfriend. He may have a plan in place that includes not seeing each other till some things blow over like him filing first, claiming the marriage is over for whatever made up reason but CHEATING not being one of the reasons. This is easy for him because I am sure you have been depressed and out of sorts due to the cheating but he’ll just tell everyone (he may already be planting the seeds) that he could not handle the negative behavior any longer or whatever. He’ll claim he and the girlfriend met after you guys split up and you keeping your mouth shut right now will only make him believable. Listen TC, I am not being mean but time to get your head out of your behind because while you are “lining up ducks” I can guarantee you that your husband already has his in place and my guess would be he’ll file after the holidays so not to attract too much attention. I say go out with a bang and blow the holidays up! Will the kids be upset, yup, they will be upset at any point in time that they hear their parents are splitting up. Down the road you will feel so much better that you did not go along with his charade. Oh and about that post nup-he can always claim he was under duress when he signed or some other cockamamie excuse and it will be thrown out.

    • TiredChump–I have followed your story closely. Just leave. Check with a lawyer immediately about what you can realistically expect in a settlement (are you in a community property state? is spousal support likely, and for how long?). NOTHING, not even a postnup, is worth decimating yourself further, as long as you know you will be supported financially afterwards. Filing also locks all the financials so that he can’t create new accounts or hide money. Here’s my prediction–he’s not going to sign the postnup.

      Every day you stay is a little bit of life sucked away from you, and another day your children see it’s okay for cheater to treat you as a doormat. He sucks, isn’t changing, and if he’s still sending her sexy underwear, hasn’t stopped seeing her (he’s hardly going to send her sexy underwear for her to wear with someone else).

    • Tired Chump,
      my story is like yours in many ways. Absolute shock, anger and devestation after dday.Initially, A commitment to be respected. We wanted a better marriage, no lies. Blah blah blah. We both are financially dependent on cheater. Cheater is a decent father or at least pretends to be, Provider. Etc. The kids and us truthfully have a good life. No worries for money etc. Kids are doing well. Now here comes OUR reality. Your h continues to cheat with ow while pretending to be Ward Cleaver. Mine found another ow to cheat with while pretending to be Ward Cleaver. This whole notion of should we stay or go. When should we go? How should we go? All this eats us up. Takes up our time and energy. The other day I was thinking how life was like before dday. My marriage wasnt good but there was no snooping, no reading infidelity books, advice columns, no worries where h was at, no sadness. Ive been post dday for 2 yrs and it does feel like im a bit numb to it. I think that its more about us being abused for so long were used to it. And we know change is scary. What were doing now is predictable(maybe) I know for sure that Im not a healthy person living this way. Im not me ( the woman pre dday). There is no magic lightbulb that will make us leave. Nothing here that anybody says will jolt us. We already know what we should do. Its how bad do we want it? What does our future look like? We have to want better for ourselves. Im going to keep supporting you no matter what you do because it does feel like were different. Most everyone else on cl has already left their cheater. We havent but there is always the future! The ties that are holding us in our marriages are imaginary.

  • Yep, was denied sex for years. We would have sex on our anniversary get away weekends… And then, excuses…. “his stomach was upset from the rich Anniversary dinner”. It was lousy boring usually missionary position sex. NEVER had an orgasm with him, but he came every time. He never cared to learn what pleased me. I had learned to manually please myself, so I’m easily orgasmic. Selfish much? I tried to gently address the issue so not to emasculate him, but it probably just gave him an excuse to prove he could “satisfy” other women… (Who were most certainly faking it) Remember being in a 5 star hotel where Gaslighter lingered over his crossword puzzle and coffee in bed on our anniversary (he preferred sex in the morning) rather than make love. Our last anniversary getaway for a 3 day weekend was our 35th. He got so drunk he couldnt get it up. The next morning he berated me for having on a filmy silk nightgown, like it was a chastity belt! What an asshole. Schmoopie had already been in the picture for nearly 2 years by then. After connecting the dots over time, I discovered he was a serial cheater all along. I filed when I found out about her. No pick me dance. He even wanted to “remain the best friends we had been for 37 years…” Um, nope. Through therapy I learned about narcissisic personality disorder and sociopathy. I had been covertly and intentionally abused and gaslighted for many many years and hadn’t even realized it. I even stood by him naively as he drug me through lawsuits (one for fraud still ongoing), constantly lied, cheated, and stole from business partners. Now that I am 22 months out from DDay #3 that I knew of (2 “one night stands” early in our marriage) I see him in a much clearer light. It has been a horrific realization, as people always told me he lights up when he talks about me blah bah blah… I see chumps who forgive and move forward after infidelity, but now I wish i had leftt after DDay #1 pr never married him in the first place. I’ve read that a cheater has a 75% probility of cheating again. They just get better at hiding it. I was waaaaay too trusting and loyal. Gaslighter has ruined both his professional and personal reputations in our fairly small community, and I am actually delighted when I hear that from various prominant people in our community as time goes by. He has lost the respect of his 2 amazing sons, who of course love him. Trust that they suck! He just found another woman to abuse. If I hadn’t caught him, he would still be in this marriage and eating her cake. As far as I can tell she is supporting him, (he is still paying the big bills for me, though later and later, as divorce process unfolds). Been with him since I was 19 and I’m nearly 59! The longer I am away from him the happier I become, though it is scary looking forward financially. I am focusing on learning to love and care for myself and building my business so that I will be okay. Onward Chumps! We deserve sooooooo much better than these disordered cheaters.

  • The only thing that really REALLY pisses me off is the time stolen from us so the mindfucks could conduct his/her affairs without consequence. ARRRGGGG!!!

    Be glad you found out at 53. You are young. Look at some 53 year old’s that you admire and make it your goal to look and feel good at your age.

    The world is your oyster and it has been waiting for you for a long, long time.

  • Chumptastic, please read and re-read and re-read Chump Lady’s advice. It is spot on. I wish this site was around after my DD#2. This post in particular would have sped up my healing immensely.

    As women we tend to internalize our partner’s sexual rejections or problems as being our fault (if only I was skinnier, had bigger boobs, etc). At the end of my marriage, my EX was having issues….ahem…’keeping it up’. I internalized this as my not being desirable. It was difficult to talk about and his response was that “he just didn’t know what was going on”. (He was keenly aware of the reason — he was screwing the 25 year old OW#2 at the time.) I later learned that ED is a very often a result of infidelity (baring medical conditions, drugs, age, etc.). In fact, it is often one of the first questions a specialist will ask.


    • ” I later learned that ED is a very often a result of infidelity (baring medical conditions, drugs, age, etc.). In fact, it is often one of the first questions a specialist will ask.”

      It is? How so? He’s 61 so I know that could be a factor. I didn’t even know he took Viagra and over the counter pills for ED until I found them hidden in his bathroom after he moved out. I would think his 20 yr old hookers would have been enough to solve whatever problem he has…..but then again, he has a never ending list of problems.

        • Thank you Moving…interesting article. The evil side of me bust out laughing over this part :

          “In 2005, a report from the University of Minnesota revealed ed that a small group of men have suffered blindness as a result of Viagra use”.

          Oh sweet karma, to have him pay $400 for sex and then be running around the hotel room screaming…”I’m bliiiiiiiiiiiiindddd”!

    • Finding out one’s wife has cheated, often, can cause a man to have an inability to perform ( don’t ask me how I know). I overcame it when my first wife cheated. I was much younger and, presumably, had much higher T level.
      Second time through it has decimated me. Just cannit seem to recover and T replenishment is not an option with two brothers having had prostate cancer. My psa is already suspect.
      ED sucks. My best years physically were wasted with rejecting wives.
      Damn, I am still fairly muscular if I work out and reasonably chiseled, too, when I exercise and eat right.
      So, I think the damage to my psyche is the cause.

  • We had a great sex life for years until X became very sick and could no longer perform, or at least, that’s why I thought he no longer wanted to have sex. Then he kicked me out of our marital bed (yes, I am a chump!), claiming he was such a light sleeper that I kept him awake at night. Of course, like so many cheaters, he was fucking someone else. To add insult to injury, he told OW we didn’t sleep together or have sex. Yeah, because he claimed to be physically unable to do so! Because I loved him and valued our marriage, I made my needs non-existent and told myself he couldn’t help his medical condition. Snort.

    When it all came to light he, of course, threw our lack of sex in my face and defiantly admitted he had told OW he was in a sexless marriage. Talk about circular logic. Deny me sex and then use that denial as an excuse to have an affair. Pig fucker. I now believe the affair had already started before his excuses began. I guess he needed to be “true” to his affair partner. The one measure of glee I have is the mental image of her on her knees trying to “satisfy” him; I am quite sure he never gave a thought to her sexual needs because, after all, we women just don’t need sex like men do…hahahaha. Those who laugh last laugh best.

  • Works the other way, too. We had a very active sex life up til the week before I filed…it was the last thing to go. Respect was much earlier. And I felt just as crummy, even though I called “enough.” And filed. They’re just wrong, and dishonest. They trade a quick win for their families and it hurts. We weren’t worth an orgasm WITH SOMEONE ELSE. Someone who didn’t know all their weaknesses. Or something.

    It gets better. After a year, 2 months divorced, I’m sleeping through the night, eating, and off the couch. You will feel better, I promise…

  • This is totally my story too. He witheld sex from me for 22 years. I asked for counseling until I was blue in the face, and then had the nerve to say, “well, we never had sex!”

  • Divorced after 18 years for almost a year now. It was a year from d-day that I finally got out of the fog. I am 50 years old and overweight…happy but not happy about the weight that I put on. However, I gave myself permission to get through this with any means necessary; in my case I ate the stress away. I gave myself permission to feel every emotion to ensure that it eventually passed never to be seen again. The emotion didn’t feel good but the gallon of mint chocolate chip did. Now, I am ready to take care of the outside (body) of me since the inside (mind) is well on my way to happiness.

    Don’t beat yourself up. I too felt discarded. NOT TRUE!!!! Your life is not over just because your 53. Imagine yourself happy and what that looks like to you. After you get through this, get happy. You deserve it.

    • I would LOVE to be 53. But I’m 61, and I earned every year! I am as healthy as I can be, lost the He-Doesn’t-Love-Me weight over last year, eating salads every day, and now I’m hooked on them! We can always improve something. And I would just say- don’t ever give up on yourself, just because your partner stopped appreciating you. You are definitely still wonderful. I wish I could remember which Chump said this, but, this idea I have run with- all the love, concern, and care I gave to Cheater, I now shower on myself, and I truly appreciate it!

  • I was the “understanding” Chump. She gaslighted me and started arguments about trivial things to avoid intimacy/sex. I kept on giving her space, trying to please her, trying to fix things, saying sorry. After 9 months without sex, we were lying in our bed one night, I was reading a book and looked to the side and saw her repeatedly checking her WhatsApp messages to a work “colleague”.

    Cue forced disclosure of an “emotional” affair and two months of fake martial counselling — she’s “frozen”. Cue me going into hyper-vigilant mode trying to fix things, and scouring telephone bills, her handbags for receipts etc for 2 months.

    And then the bombshell hit when I put it all together one morning at 2am: that weekend trip to Paris with your work girlfriend, was actually with your male work colleague. She had been having sex with him for months.
    The low point was discovering a pregnancy test kit in her cupboard. How stupid was I.

    I divorced her as quickly as I could. I kept the house. And I cried. Crushed for me and my kids and the family I thought I would have. And I cherished receiving the “I love you, but I’m not in love with you” speech. Textbook.

    Roll forward 2 years, and she’s with her AP, and he gets to spend 50% of the time with my kids. She denies cohabiting, because that would stop the spousal maintenance.

    I don’t sit and wait for the karma bus to reach her stop. But I wish it would come, sometime soon.

    • Did she ever admit it? I guess the PG test is pretty obvious.

      I am so sorry North London. The gaslighting is the worst, it makes you doubt your own judgement. Makes you think you are nuts. And all those stupid apps cheaters use. Really they are all the same.

      Here is to hoping that Karma bus shows up.. believe me, it totally will. Might look peachy on the outside, but I bet it’s not.. now that the magic pixie dust has worn off the relationship.

      You deserve better!

    • NorthLondon–I’m sorry; it is horrifying enough without having to share kids with the cheater. I’m thinking you need a Private Investigator to determine co-habitation. It’s against the notion of Justice for you to have to pay her spousal support, too.

      • I don’t know the laws in your land, but can you determine if she’s cohabiting and then be able to cut off your spousal support? The injustice of it all really gets me. Let us know how you’re doing.

    • I wonder if you could subpoena her testimony re cohabiting with AP. You would think lying under oath would start the ball rolling towards less support. Cheaters are just crappy people period.

  • Chumptastic, you’ve received some really great advice here. Keep reading Chump Lady. Get the book. Hopefully, you will soon see that he is disordered. Once you know that in your bones, things will change for you. Happy couples come in every shape/size combination; your shape/size has nothing to do with his disorder. You’ll see that theses cheating idiots will never hold themselves responsible for their behavior, which means that the spouse MUST be responsible. Don’t buy into his disordered bullshit!!!

  • Chumptastic –

    It is not you. It is not you. It is not you.

    My ex husband and I had what *I* thought was a great sex life. About 6 months before D-Day, we had gone out to a gathering about 20 minutes from home. On the way home, we were flirting and kidding around and ended up having sex in our car in our driveway…. we couldn’t event wait to get into the house. At this point, we were about 18 years into our relationship (13 into our marraige).

    Yeah, then 6 months later, I find that he’s been fucking prostitutes for years. Didn’t see that coming.

    So, it wouldn’t have mattered. If I gave him sex, if I didn’t, if i was fat, if I was thin…. NOTHING would have mattered. He wanted to do what he did and he did it. I think this might be step one in the cheater handbook. It would read something along the lines of:

    1) Step one: Want to cheat? GO FOR IT! Fuck everyone else.

    It’s not you, It’s not you. It’s not you.

  • When cheater blew up our honeymoon and blamed me many years ago I was beside myself. Got up in the midst of our having sex screaming divorce. We packed our bags and left with him threatening to divorce me every time I tried to discuss wtf happened. I was 21 and he just turned 30. I remember when I left him once before the divorce and having a friend’s Dad stating we were still in the honeymoon period and should have been doing nothing but having sex at this stage. I just thought he was over the hill. It took coming here to finally understand what was going on. Passive aggression behavior and cheating…from day one. It took getting back together after almost 30 years and him trying to get me to do a pick me dance against a recent widow before I got here and figured it out. The fact that this woman’s husband hadn’t been in the ground 6 months when he made a play for her spoke volumes. She saw him for the predator he is and blocked him from her life. Seriously, this is a couple he had known for decades…ewwww!!!!

    Chumptastic I agree with the others that you should keep coming here. In time your eyes will be opened to so many things that either slipped by you or you spackled over for whatever reason. Glad you didn’t wish the asshole a happy anniversary. This time next year you’ll probably get a “Happy Anniversary” message from him unless you have him totally blocked. Your response will be to tell him to go fuck himself…in your head because your awesome self will have moved on. Thanks to CL and CN I am finally FREE! I think these poor excuses of human beings are actually made by Satan’s 3D printer.

  • It’s always a chicken/egg with these cheaters. They want to claim that marital problems caused them to cheat, when typically they just have poor impulse control so they cheat and then justify their cheating by what the chump didn’t give them in the marriage.

    Total horseshite and mindfuckery for the chump to swallow. Blame-the-victim mentality on the part of society (who buys cheater’s explanations) and the cheater him/herself, so they can sail away into the moral sunset doubly-wronged in their own head. Fuck em.

    • They also like to drive you crazy with their bad behavior, then use your resulting “craziness” to justify that bad behavior. Another chicken/egg.

      • They will do *anything* to avoid taking responsibility for their actions. Mine won’t even take a blameshifting paragraph out of a letter to my 14 y.o. to try and get her to talk to him after a year. Blaming me for his affairs is MORE important than his own daughter. And that’s true for 99% of them.

  • Woo hoo ! I thought there would be no new post, because I thought this was saturday, but no, it’s a holiday, a wednesday, and CL came up with another nugget. This one resonates with my story SO much ! When I had a burnout, I could not be touched (something to do with nerves). It lasted a couple of months only. He had never been much into sex anyway. Buth after I was healed, we never had sex. I thought, be it, he is getting older, I can do without, the companionship is much more important to me. It never occured to me that he had started fantasizing about another woman, and would soon be physical with her.
    After D-Day, he accused me of rejecting him all the time. I cannot remember doing that. However, the doubt lingered in my mind, what if I had initiated, it’s my fault, I did not take care of his needs, I’ve been stupid, etc. And after he walked out, I felt worthless, I felt old (55), I thought I would never have sex with anyone again.

    First evening out with restaurant and music, a 44 year-old guy with a bright smile had a crush on poor old me. He texted every day during two months. We hiked, we dated, finally we spent a night together. He did not have any problem getting it up, as for me, I had no idea that my body could still be reacting like a 20 year old.
    Chumptastic, I usually don’t tell intimate stories, but I thought I had to prove that “being no good to anyone ever again” is just another lie that our cheaters make us believe.

  • Sex between my STBX and I slowed down about 2-3 years ago, then starting last year, zip, zero, nada, nothing. He had been having ED issues for years (since a prostate surgery) and needed Viagra to get anything going. But in recent years even the Viagra wasn’t working, and believe me, I tried everything I knew to help him rise to the occasion. He was becoming increasingly frustrated when he couldn’t get it up. So when he stopped trying last year I figured I wouldn’t pressure him (he’s 71, BTW), felt sorry for the SOB. Although I wanted intimacy w/him, just laying next to him in bed and reading, cuddling under a blanket on the sofa, holding hands in a restaurant, was okay with me.

    D-Day was two months ago. I found out that my scientific darling decided that he would take it upon himself to conduct clinical trials to find out what was going on w/the Viagra. He took his “research” first to massage parlors that offered happy endings. His doctor told him told him that Viagra + manual stimulation WILL work. Well, what do you know? It did. So he keep going back, for nearly 5 years! Then he started to experience failures, seems that even Viagra + the oh so lovely massage parlor ladies couldn’t get him going every time. That’s when he took his research to the next phase: affair #1.

    His thinking was that he needed more that just the rub and tug to get and maintain an erection, he also needed the intimacy of a real relationship. This had been the case w/us too. Even in his younger days he always needed to be told how handsome, strong, terrific he is or he would go limp almost immediately. I had to give a play-by-play of what a fantastic lover he was every time we had sex. Okay, so it worked with fuck bunny #1, he was able to perform. In the true scientific spirit, he needed to replicate the experiment to ensure that his results were sound. Enter bunny #2. This is the one I discovered two months ago. Bunny #2 is a real piece of work, she allowed him to conduct his experiments sans condom. Lucky for me, we weren’t haven’t sex at the time (I still had the full panel of STD tests).

    Our divorce is in progress and I hear bunny #2 has dumped him. Makes sense b/c now w/o my income he’s not able to afford the lavish hotel rooms and expensive gifts that accompanied each encounter with her. It’s still difficult to process all of this, of course, but I start each day by reading this blog and reminding myself that there is a brighter future out there for me. There is for you too!

  • Chumptastic – I feel your pain. It sucks to be rejected. EVEN when you know the person who rejected you has no common sense, or credibility, or a soul. The pain will pass….(I’m speaking from experience).

  • Sex, for him, was never about showing love. It was all about power and control.

    He refused to wear a condom or consider a vasectomy. I couldn’t take the pill for health reasons and after having four babies I had scheduled a tubal. I was working full time and doing all the housework and childcare because he was always too busy with his high powered career ( and banging coworkers). I was beyond exhausted! One night he wanted to have sex and I told him he had to wear a condom. He refused so I went to sleep. I woke in the middle of the night with him on top of me, he outweighs me by at least 100 pounds (not overweight but very muscular). I was so tired 🙁 that I didn’t struggle.

    When I ended up pregnant again he told me to have an abortion or give the baby up for adoption. We were well off, we could easily afford another child, that wasn’t an issue. When I told him I just couldn’t he was angry, told me I’d better hire somehow to,help me because he wasn’t going to. It was such a lonely feeling.

    I raised those five babies virtually by myself, he rarely came home until they were in bed. Now he wonders why, as young adults and teenagers, they don’t want anything to do with him.

    His treatment of me was a secret, I remember the first time I told that story, to my therapist. I cried, it was such a sad memory.

    • I’m sorry, Jenny. You are unchained from a monster. It is sad, and lonely at times, but infinitely better than having the life sucked out of you one drop of blood at a time. Hugs!

      • Thank you Tempest. Sometimes I despair that I will ever recover, that I stayed so long that I’ll never heal but those days are getting fewer and fewer. I waited because he was such an unfit parent, so unable to care for anyone but himself. But he had money and power and I couldn’t risk him getting custody. Finally when my youngest was fifteen I could feel that last little bit of ‘me’ dying and I knew if I didn’t leave now I wouldn’t have the strength. I saw a lawyer who assured me my son could choose and put a lien on our land and left. It’s been a huge struggle, he does not want to let me go because he wasn’t the one to discard me. But I will be free soon.

        • I agree with Donna, Jenny–you will recover, we will all recover if we take steps to live our own lives. That is not to say we will ever get over the harm that has been done to us. I believe, and in fact, hope that I will still be angry with the emotional abuses leveled at me by X. But I hope the anger and indignation become more cognitive (“I deserve to be angry because he…..”) and less tied up in the raw emotions that at least 3 times a day, make me want to curl up in a ball and let the world go past. But it used to be 12 times a day I would feel like that, then 9, then 6. Steps forward is all we can ask of ourselves.

          • When I left I promised myself that I wouldn’t waste another moment of my life on him. I somehow believed that I would escape, unscathed. I was so naive! I was much more fragile than I thought. And it was like I had shot my wad of courage leaving and I was left paralyzed for a time. He refused to leave our house in the city, although he did spend most weekends at our ranch. He would come into my room at night and terrify me.

            Eventually I knew I needed some support and found a great therapist that was experienced in domestic abuse. I used to just sit and shake the whole hour I was talking to him. I was able to go to court and get exclusive possession of the house. I was finally able to start healing. The court also limits his contact of me, we still own a large ranch together and have to make business decisions together.

            One day my therapist was talking about how abuse was like a house with the roof the secrecy that hides it. I told him I was so frustrated with my slow progress. But he told me, you lived in that house a long time. It’s true and I try to treat myself with patience and kindness. I’m getting there!

  • When my dumbass cheater left he also left behind a few books for me to read one being, “The Sex Starved Marriage.” I think it was written by the same genius who wrote “Divorce Busters” or whatever it’s called. What trash.

    I didn’t have the perfect sex life with my ex, no doubt about it. I didn’t want to have sex with a man who was drunk half the time, dismissive and a generally lousy parent. Sorry, my bad. When we did have sex it wasn’t that great. Did he mention to me that he wanted more/different sex? Nope. No conversation. Did I go out and cheat while he trolled bars for pick ups? Nope, I was home trying to figure out where he was and doing my best to parent. Did I troll ads for hook ups? Nope, I went to therapy and tried to become a better person. Him? HE was out screwing unfortunate women. Still is.

    The problem isn’t the sex in the marriage, it’s the character of the cheater. If you are an adult you have a God given voice, you can communicate your needs. If this is hard to do, find a therapist and take your partner with you…a good therapist can help you break the news if you don’t have the courage to do so on your own. Cheaters though want YOU to take the blame, they want YOU to be the “bad guy” and this is a lovely little defence mechanism called PROJECTION. Don’t fall for it.

    You want out of your marriage? Have a conversation. You don’t love your spouse any longer? Fess up. Have some damn courage and dignity. Sadly this is what is lacking in any cheater. Cheating is not about sex, it’s about power, control and manipulation.

  • Everything CL wrote fits my marriage and is a huge trigger. X told my daughter I never forgave him for cheating and THAT was his explanation. Yet I forgave repeatedly. I was in a sexless marriage for years on end because it was up to ME to initiate. He never did. When we did have sex I always said, “Why don’t we do this more often”? I know now there were 17 reasons that I know of over the years. He ever stopped “dating”, looking, cheating, watching porn, or spending money on whores. It’s NOTjust sex we go without, they lack intamacy, respect, kindness, and morals. It’s life long. It’s who they are. The person I loved NEVER existed. Everything I fought for to maintain a relationship with him was an illusion. X left me for a bar whire with mental illness after knowing her for less than a month and is still dating. Forgive yourself and move on. It’s the answer.

    • The flip side is that mine continued to have sex with me while banging numerous women so that I wouldn’t suspect anything. He wanted a family and he wanted a smorgasbord of p*ssy, and the only way to have both was to convince me he was still “in” the marriage (even though he wasn’t). Not happy that he brought his contaminated privates into our sex life.

      • I would have preferred (Knowing what I know now) to have been in a sexless marriage! Instead, she would give out enough to make me “happy” I guess…. not knowing she was banging a 20 something on and off…. no protection… needless to say, I am very lucky on the STD front!

      • X led a double life. He was always busy, his back hurt, he had to work late, or he was tired. I was the one who had to go without. Not once did I cheat.

  • Long time lurker, created an account specifically to comment on this. I read both CL and Dan Savage daily – I like seeing the two ends of the spectrum (I personally fall somewhere in between in my perspective). I’m a former chump, now happily remarried for 5 years. We’re currently monogamous, but open to that changing in the future, a decision we would make together.

    Dan Savage would definitely NOT condone Chumptastic’s STBX’s actions. Savage advocates honesty and yes, cheating only as a last resort to save an otherwise good marriage. (Not saying I agree, only trying to fairly representing his stance.) He almost always advises spouses in sexless marriages to try to get their partner to address/remedy the situation and, if they refuse or can’t, either get a divorce or be honest about their intention to seek sex outside the marriage. He’s specifically called the kind of affair Chumptastic describes as wrong.

    CL’s analysis was spot on… right up until she brought DS into it and putting words in his mouth that he himself wouldn’t speak. I just feel like that sort of needless (and in this case baseless) mud-throwing gives ammunition to critics who dismisse this site as unbalanced and hate mongering. Don’t do it!

    Chumptastic, my marriage ended in much the same way – the sex waned, I begged him to work on it, go to the Dr., counseling, but got nowhere. A year later I found out he dealt with his low libido by cheating on me, his successful, hot wife, with a homely diner waitress. I endured the same blame-shifting and it’s just pure, undiluted, Grade-A bullshit. You gave him your best and he betrayed you in the worst way possible, and then tried to make it somehow your fault because he’s too much of a coward to own up to his actions.

    But what I thought was the worst thing that ever happened to me turned out to be the best. I went on to meet my now husband and am happier than I ever thought I could be. Hold on, get through it and then run towards the new life waiting for you on the other side. You won’t feel this way forever, I promise you.

    • I agree heartily with your Dan savage assessment. He isn’t a “proliferate cheaters” advocate. He’s “if you’re in love but there is no love but you need to get laid, you’ve tried to remedy it, made it clear that you NEED sex and it’s going to happen if they participate or not, and nothing has come of it but you have reasons to stay – be safe and be quiet, and keep things separate” he actually proposes cheating in what could almost be defined as respectful way. Most cheaters don’t have enough grown up in them to handle even an ounce of that, and aren’t approaching this from a direction of respect. I most people are actually incapable of being that healthy about it is where it is a problem. Dan savage has invented his own type of cheater unicorn- the one who does it honourably. This is used as a wall of justification from the cheaters who actually exist. They think they had a real talk about it, because they said one time “I want more sex,” and spouse didn’t change overnight. Or they pretend they are just getting their physical stuff taken care of, when realistically it’s an emotional and physical affair. They are turning their hearts off to their spouse, or getting release because life is so stressful, and not actually making a fair accommodation for those spouses who also feel stressed (gee- maybe your wife isn’t in sexy mode because your three kids under five all threw up on her today and what she really needs is a bubble bath and a back rub. Like the ones you pay for from Mee-lee at the parlour) I don’t know if people can actually really do the “I’m just getting laid” thing on the side without it impacting their partner. And most people forget things like making sure that the relationship remains fair (as above/ if you get sex because he/she won’t put out, they also deserve a night off or whatnot). So….. I know DS means well, but I think there’s way too many disordered out there using him and his ultra open attitudes as a defence than people who actually are married to people who physically can’t have sex or really just have no libido who’s partners altruistically stay with them and just find relief. Besides… There’s a flesh-light for that….

      • Could not agree with you more, Creativerational, and that’s why I think I fall somewhere between CL and DS. I don’t think it’s always black-or-white; or that all cheaters are terrible people / narcissists / sociopaths. I think there are many who just make mistakes from a place of loneliness or desperation. Having been cheated on myself, it’s taken me a long time and a lot of soul searching to come to a place of grace for some – SOME – people who commit adultery.

        …aaaand I also know there are a lot of REALLY bad apples out there who just use and abuse, twisting any grey area / corner case into justification for terrible behavior. I also think it’s unrealistic to expect that even the most “honest” of cheaters can keep physical relationships separate from emotional ones and not jeopardize their marriages if/when attachments form to other people.

        I dunno, it’s complicated, which is why I don’t normally comment here. I just didn’t like the mis-characterization of Dan Savage’s, uh, philosophy (?) on a more clear-cut situation like Chumptastic’s.

        • I am going to post quotes and information from Dan Savage below to show you that you are wrong about him advocating infidelity only in the worst case scenarios where a partner is refusing sex. He thinks it is acceptable much more broadly than that, and as such, advocates deception and minimizes the emotional damage to the betrayed party.

          To post a defense of his views that minimizes both his position and its broader impact on a site, and a daily blog which is SPECIFICALLY devoted to a partner who claimed his sexless marriage (that he caused) then caused him to cheat, is insensitive to say the least. Next we’ll be advocating meth dealers being allowed to tout their product at NA meetings.

          From the article:

          ”But I actually think the attitudes we hold about monogamy and the importance we place on it is more dangerous, is doing more damage, is harming marriages, is leading to more divorces than anything I’ve ever recommended that people do or think.”

          He insists he is not in favour of a sexual free-for-all for committed partners. Indeed, he has coined a word, monogamish, which is how he describes his marriage to Terry Miller. (The couple were married in Canada in 2005, and again in the US when Washington state legalised same-sex unions in 2012. They have an adopted son.)

          ”We were monogamous for four or five years and not monogamous for 15 years,” Savage says. ”We’re blissfully happy and we still have sex all the time with each other. I coined the term for our marriage, monogamish, [because] we were so much more monogamous than not.”

          But it is common sense, not his own marriage, that Savage holds out as the basis for his views. ”We tell people that humans are naturally monogamous and [it’s not] true. We know that in most serious long-term relationships, 60 per cent of the men in them will cheat, 40 per cent of the women … and we pound it into people’s heads that if there’s infidelity you must end the marriage, that the marriage is destroyed.

          ”It’s saying that one blow-job on a business trip should be given more weight and consideration and more importance should be attached to it than the 25 years you’ve spent together, the kids you’re raising together, the property you own together, the history you have together, the affection you still have for each other – all of that must be discarded. All of that weighs less on the scales.”

          The default position should be reversed, he argues. ”It should be, ‘We’ll get through this,’ not divorce as the default.”

          And the result? ”It’s going to save marriage, it’s going to make marriage better and stronger,” Savage declares.

          Read more:
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          • His rational for cheating sucks. Its so male-centric. Notice he just says business trip blowjob. I say bullshit to the argument that he’s just giving an example. He’s advocating women to eat the shit sandwich cause “boys will be boys.” He thinks there is some nobility to cheating- like Plato’s Noble Lie.

          • ”It’s saying that one blow-job on a business trip should be given more weight and consideration and more importance should be attached to it than the 25 years you’ve spent together, the kids you’re raising together, the property you own together, the history you have together, the affection you still have for each other – all of that must be discarded. All of that weighs less on the scales.”

            Umm, isn’t it the CHEATER who gave the blow job on the business trip more weight, consideration, and importance than the 25 years, kids, history and affection?

            Isn’t it the cheater who put his dick on the scale to make that blow job weigh more than the quarter of a century together?

            FOAD Savage and anyone with attitudes like him.

      • DS’s position also seems to me to justify trying to manipulate an unwilling partner into doing things they’d rather not do. The attitude of, “You owe it to me to satisfy me sexually in every way my imagination demands, or I’ll find someone who will and not even tell you about it,” is not conducive to a mutually respectful relationship.

      • Its not ‘cheating’ if the other party has accepted it of their own free will without coercion. Some people do live in non-monogamous relationships – but the issue is that both parties are aware and consenting to such a relationship, and there are MORE rules in a non-monogamous relationship.

        Cheaters will just do whatever the fuck they please – so yes, they are all narcissists. CR speaks of ‘loneliness or desperation’ – THERE IS NO EXCUSE. PERIOD. If you’re ‘lonely’ or ‘desperate’ it is when you say “This is a dealbreaker to me. If you will not provide me *reasonable need*, I will find it elsewhere” – where the other party has a CHOICE in whether they want to continue with the relationship, or are unable to – therefore brokering an HONEST split.

        • Preach it, Lania! So true, they sneak around cause they know you won’t go for it, unlike the adultery partners, who will. And from what I’ve seen, in Open Marriages, unless they are both participating in extramarital sex, one is usually being coerced to accept it. But that’s not really my business, cause it’s a separate issue.

  • I think the ideal karma for ex would be prostate cancer. I feel guilty for even saying that but it really would be justice.

    • X had it and for me it was years of going without. Waiting and being supportive. The DAY he anticipated using it he told me he found someone else. She was a teacher ( one if numerous attempts while dating) and he calmly stated he found someone else. That was in 2009. She was a victim as he lied. I called her and he was playing a pick me and I won wasting four more years of my life. What an ass I was loving a pig.

    • Lina – funny you should say that. The day the divorce was final, he got news that he had prostate cancer and the whole thing had to come out. hmmm..I dunno – karma?

      • The reason I picked prostate cancer for karma is because my Dad had it and his abandonment affected him as well. But I could live with penile parasite too.

  • This is a pretty standard story. I am not trying to make light of the pain.
    But, essentially, it contains all the elements: Lying, failing to communicate, justification etc. I would think that a very high percentage of us had similar stories with minor details changed. Instead of lack of sex, it may be alleged emotional disconnection or some form of negligence.
    The consistent theme in these stories seems to be that the cheater feels neglected or abused or claims some other deficiency in the betrayed and uses that to justify cheating.
    He o she lies for a period of time until busted, the lies further to minimize. Accompanying the inital , pre discovery lies is abuse ( gaslighting, picking fights, verbal abuse or something). Then, upon discovery there is further lying and abuse, primarily blame shifting and derision etc.
    I have almost never seen a cheater acknowledge that he or she caused most of the pre affair problems, although studies show they have in most cases. I have seen very few cases where the initial response is true remorse vs blaming.

  • I recall an earlier CL article on Dan Savage ant thought Savage made it quite clear that he feels cheating is justified in certain circumstances. One wonders about his rationale on this, as divorce is readily available and easily completed.
    Setting aside the STD aspects, it is difficult to understand how one justifies cheating ( which deprives the betrayed of access to information that would allow the betrayed to, perhaps, engage in similar pleasurable activities in reliance on the original contract.).
    Saying that cheating is justified in certain circumstances makes no sense when the dissatisfied partner could , quite easily, remedy the dissatisfaction by simply divorcing.

    • Arnold, you are correct, he does condone cheating in certain circumstances. Most often, he seems to advocate cheating with disclosure – i.e. “I did not agree to a celibate marriage and you do not want to have sex with me anymore, so we can either get divorced or I am going to seek sex with other people.” He also has acknowledged that sometimes that kind of disclosure isn’t realistic and condones cheating anyway, again in certain circumstances. (Not saying I agree, just sharing what I know of his POV.)

      I don’t think there is anything simple or easy about divorce, even under the best of circumstances. For many of us, life can be messier than “well, just get a divorce, then.” There are a variety of circumstances where a couple could decide that sex outside the marriage is preferable to divorce.

      The key, IMHO, is disclosure, which I think you are also saying is critical. Deceit isn’t OK. I think Dan Savage would agree 90% of the time. It’s the 10% that many (including CL and myself) take issue with.

      • Yes, disclosure is the key. I suspect we disagree about the simplicity and ease of divorce. This is not the same as saying it is painless, but, typically, it is a straight forward process, relatively uncomplicated as compared to more sophisticated areas of law.
        It really is quite straight forward: want to have sex with others, either disclose and allow your partner to make an informed decision or initiate a divorce. It may complicate one’s life a bit in terms of finances and child logistics, but few desirable things ( in this case sex with others) come without some price tag.
        I take no issue with some couples agreeing to having sex outside the marriage, but , if Savage is endorsing lying and deception in some circumstances, I feel he is wrong.
        Some things take courage of conviction and integrity. They may be unpleasant, like disclosing one’s desire for outside involvement, thus complicating life a bit. But, I am having a hard time imagining a scenario where failure to disclose could be justified.

        • (Beating my head into the desk) Honestly, I don’t give a fuck what Dan Savage thinks. So Dan thinks cheating should be used as a last resort if the spouse won’t fuck you? That doesn’t “save” a marriage. That puts a bullet in it.

          Jesus Christ why is this so fucking hard for people to understand?

          Gah. I can’t even today . . .

          • No mud slinging here just two classless cheating pigs rolling in the mud together savagely. Cheater speak and cheater logic to justify fucking strange. If you want to fuck someone while married reread the fine print in the cheaters handbook for any tidbit for justification.

          • Its funny how twits will use the word ‘cheating’ to mean something honourable. Its not. Period.
            What that brainless twit is supposed to be saying is “If both parties are above board, without being coerced, and a honest conversation is held when there is a dealbreaker – then a non-monagamous partnership might be on the table. 99.9% of the time, however, its not, therefore you divorce”.
            How fucking difficult is this logic to understand, for 99% of the fucking population?

    • Cheating is never justified. Divorce or just be honest. I am going to have sex with (blank). Part of me gets angry because during her four years of fun, I was turning down and running like hell from opportunities. Maybe we both could have had our fun! But no reality strikes and I know myself. I am not capable of being married and doing any of the above.

      Funny they dont want you doing the same thing. They do become somewhat hypersensitive to your actions. Whats good for them is not good for you……

    • It’s not actually CHEATING then though, is it?

      If both know, agree, and are able to make decisions for themselves and their arrangement with all.the.facts, then neither one is being cheated.

      And for any OW who says things like, “But he TOLD me you had an arrangement! And you never seemed to mind that he wasn’t around and you hardly spoke at functions we were all together at!”…

      Well, then confirm that with his wife, yes? She should have no issues if it is, in fact, an agreement they have.

  • I’ll agree with CL. Cheaters find reasons to cheat. No matter what.

    I’ve said before that my ex and I had grown routine and infrequent in our sex life. It’s something that we should have worked on.

    But when her affair started, she didn’t complain about lack of sex, at least not initially. She blamed impending life changes, then my lack of attention by going to night school, then boredom with lack of traveling, then vague and undefinable ills that I was supposed to fix. Heck, in the period when I danced Pick Me, she even complained to her sister that I wanted *too much* sex.

    The story kept changing. The point wasn’t for me to address the problem. The point was to keep me trying, and keep me guessing, and keep me believing she was deeply, deeply I satisfied with my performance as a husband.

    (Not dissatisfied enough to divorce. Just dissatisfied enough to cheat.)

    Your husband’s “lack of sex” excuse is just that: an excuse. And a poor one, at that. If you changed and gave him lots of sex, he’d make another excuse just as soon as he was satisfied.

    Cheaters gonna cheat.

    • Same here, Bethany Beach. The alleged dissatisfaction and other alleged deficiencies were moving targets, never disclosed or discussed. Once they make their minds up and start cheating, they are highly invested in making sure an environment of dissatisfaction remains in place in order to continue justifying their cheating.
      Weird, isn’t it: They are dissatisfied, yet they are , most often, the source of the problems in the relationship and fail to take any steps to work on themselves.
      Dealing with the disordered, one , very often, finds oneself in these no win situations. They are masters of creating double binds, as well as masters of lying, abusing, cheating and financial abuse.

      • Arnold, I really love that you keep pushing this point, and that you write about it so eloquently. I have often cut and paste your point that it is THEIR characters that bring most of the problems to the marriage in the first place.
        One of the most hurtful things was when a dear friend who has known and loved her both is sort of Switzerland/taking his side (because he is such a poor sausage of course) and told me I was part to blame.
        But I promise you he was the source of the problems. All I wanted was a bit of attention, a bit of affection, my hand held in the street, him telling me about his day.

        You cannot have a relationship with a narcissist, but you are blamed for your hurt reactions to their abuse.

        • I encountered this issue, Patsy, early on in this whole deal, the 50/50 responsibility cliche and it just never made sense to me. Here you have a person willing to lie, steal time, abuse, with a demonstrated lack of empathy, integrity, problem solving and communication skills. They are, cheaters, after all. So, by definition, they possess these qualities or lack thereof.
          Yet, even on sites where the cheater is being taken to task and the betrayed is, supposedly , being supported, I see well meaning supporters chanting this 50/50 deal incessantly.
          The whole cliche lacks any analysis and has been adopted because it has a catchy ring to it. I wish the folks that spew it, even if well intentioned and supposedly deigned to distinguish between the cheater’s 100% responsibility for the cheating and contributions to pre affair problems, would just stop it and think about what they are saying.
          But, as others have often pointed out, some people, in order to feel safe in their own relationships, really need to pin some responsibility on the betrayed.
          I really doubt that any betrayed spouse takes the position that he or she was a perfect person in the marriage. I do not know about you, but my vows did not contain a caveat that all bets were off as regards fidelity if one or the other of us was imperfect in some way.
          I know there were articles I read way back where therapists and researchers, somehow, looked into which spouse, the cheater or the betrayed, was the source of mist pre affair marital problems and every article concluded that it was the cheater who had always been les invested in the marriage from the beginning.
          Most long term and serial cheaters simply have to be disordered to attain the comfort level and proficiency they have with lying and deceiving over such an extended period of time.
          Look at how well they continue to function in an environment of deceit and abuse vs how we would be doing if we found ourselves in their place. They sleep like babies, laugh at parties, socialize, function at work etc, whereas if a normal person was shouldering this burden of deceit and being abusive, he or she could never pull this off for long.
          Never buy into the “share equally in the pre-affair condition of the marriage” cliche. It is superficial, sounding nice, neat an egalitarian, but it makes no sense at all.
          I think the vast majority of betrayed folks I see stories from accept way too much of the blame for the condition of their marriages. If anything, as the result of being so traumatized and a desire to perhaps, feel some level of control because they “caused” the affair, betrayeds bend over backwards to try and find themselves the cause of problems.

          • Arnold, as I was reading this, I got this sudden burst of “He’ll yeah”!! I think I even cracked a smile for the first time in a long time. I am so glad I found this site and all of the support from its members!

          • I refuse to believe in a 50/50. To me that assumes I was the problem and they were perfect. Or I would have been out screwing someone else also. Its character and no morals. My marriage as with others had its ups and downs. Neither party was perfect or better than the other. One chose adultery one did not. So 50/50 HELL NO!!

            • I accept 50% of the blame for my unhappy marriage.

              I accept 0.00% of the blame for my STBXW’s cheating.

              I accept 0.00% of the rationale that my unhappy marriage had any causal effect on my STBXW’s cheating. I was in the same unhappy scenario, had *more* opportunities to cheat than she did, and took up exactly 0.00% of those opportunities.

              So, in a way, I believe in 50/50, but only in so much as it pertains to the marriage having problems. And I do that because statistically it stands to reason that, if you were betting on averages, we’re all half responsible for relationship issues, because NO RELATIONSHIP IN THE HISTORY OF EVER HAS ZERO ISSUES. 🙂

              Ergo, cheaters have massive character flaws in how they deal with those issues. I know several chumps, and not one of them – NOT ONE – would take a bet that their ex-spouses wouldn’t cheat on their current partners. Because… well… cheaters gonna cheat.

              I gotta say, the further on this path I travel, the more I actually pity cheaters; almost all of them will never really know love, never really know true commitment, never really know the joy of truly connecting with someone, never know how it feels to sacrifice for someone else, never know what it is to lay down at night and sleep well in the knowledge that you’ve never fucked over anyone else to obtain your goals in life.

            • I’m still of the mentality that if you cheat – you get the fuck out, do not pass Go, do not collect $200, and relinquish all rights to all marital assets and visitation of children, irrespective of gender. They obviously weren’t thinking too much of those things before stabbing their partner in the back now, were they?
              Fuck them all.

            • Takes two to make a marriage and one to break it. Cheaters are the ones who are not vested in making it work long term. The part I own in this marriage is having stayed believing the tripe about marriages have tough patches, all men cheat, nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes. Chumps don’t seem to get that kind of understanding reciprocated. How bout I go defraud a bunch of people, tell everyone but the victim how awful I was but never compensate the victims? Cause you know I ain’t perfect!

          • It’s such a Punishment to us chumps that they can hold the mask in place for work, events, friends, family and then when they’re supposed to be a spouse physically, the fact that they are cheating tends to make them useless on that end also. for fucks sake. Where are my god damn cookies.

          • Arnold you are spot on, I couldn’t figure out what I had done wrong and then I couldn’t figure out what I hadn’t don right. I was so perplexed by his mixed messages. Not only was I his best friend, great wife and we had a wonderful relationship but sex was great and very frequent. He told me all the time he loved me. I was being faked out all the time and didn’t have a clue. He didn’t blame me, fault me, pick at me or tell me any problems, I asked several times after BD because I couldn’t fathom just walking away from a good partner if there wasn’t any problem. I asked him to tell me even if it would hurt me but he couldn’t come up with anything. I’m still second guessing, reviewing all of our history, what was real, and what was true?

      • What I found was…. during her affairs, I was always given a goal. Something I needed to change to make our marriage better. When one was met another goal/issue was handed out. Never ending issues once they start. As stated above, just ways to justify to themselves their quest. Nothing I could do at any point would have changed anything.

  • My own experience of having been cheated on in a long term marriage convinced me of the following.

    It is about an inability to take the risk of addressing problems because it would mean an alteration of the power balance in the marriage.

    It is easier for a cheater to have the safety and comfort of an established home life, and to go out to play like a child with the AP.

    Being with an AP gives them a chance to start fresh, to choose a ‘partner ‘ who does not know their weaknesses, and therefore no concessions are needed. They get their own way and can play pretend hero. How many of us have witnessed our cheaters blatantly lying to their AP and exaggerating all the perks of their awesomeness? It all crashes down for them, given time.

    As for the original spouse, they so often ARE smarter, more savvy, more attractive than the AP. It is just that they have too much history with their chickenshit cheater for him/her to want to engage on an adult level and possibly have to concede their shortcomings.

    • TOTAL Marci! You are right about the power imbalance. Wow, thanks.
      I know someone married to a narc, who was told she was too fat. to have sex with. So she went on a massive diet (she was a model), and got told she was too thin.
      This is where our denial comes in. What she wasn’t looking at was the truth: ‘I don’t care about you, whether you hurt or even if you are breathing’. That was the truth.

    • Excellent points Marci. My husband was insecure about a lot of things. After 25 years, we were complacent about boosting each other up. She came along and he could hide all his weaknesses, while she worshiped the ground he walked on. How awesome that felt, I’m sure. Ironically, he then committed acts (with her) that undoubtedly made him feel even more horrible about himself than the little tiny insecurities he dealt with before. Together, he and she drove a wedge between him and his children, changing their relationship forever. He did things NO ONE respects him for, including his beloved son who looked up to him. He can pretend to be a hero with her, but he’s no hero anywhere else in his life. It’s hard a thing to grasp…that he would even stay with her when a good chunk of what she did was negatively alter every other facet of his life. The sex and the kibbles must be freakin’ amazing.

    • SarBear,
      My cheater was the “professor type” who took mentoring his young female colleagues too far. They worshipped him, or so he thought, and they reinforced his self image as a great man. He completely refused to cooperate to solve our marital issues (no sex fom him) on the excuse that his career was more important.

      I finally got tired of his self glorification at the expense of my needs in the marriage.

      Yes, after divorce, I spent some time looking at mens’ online profiles. I started on the premise that 95% of them are divorced and that 90% of them are not chumps. That means most of their marriages likely ended because THEY cheated.

      They are all so shiny…either that or the poor-sausage-me types, or the fishermen holding their big catches, or the sports-car-look-at-me-I-have-this-toy-I-will-share guys. The common denominator? They are divorced man-children looking to start fresh with any woman who has the need to look online for a partner, i.e. she will likely be either a lonely single, a fellow cheater, or looking for a sugar daddy.

      I was the classic lonely divorcee, after a 30 year marriage what did I know about the range of nutters out there? Tiddly squat. It’s taken me six years and being chumped a second time to really get serious about fixing my picker.

      • A fairly high % of the women I met and dated post divorce had been the cheaters in their relationship, Marci. And, a shocking number told me that they had beenOWs with married men when they were young and single.

    • Exactly! My ex has ED and varicoses. I believe he knew that before we married. We tried and tried to get pregnant. I went to doctor, they did all sorts of invasive tests, it was humiliating, nothing wrong with me, perfect, hundreds spent on diagnostic testing. THEN they said, get your husband tested. After two tests just to be sure, turns out he has about a half a dozen swimmers. He was SO AGAINST donor sperm. He took that from me, a chance to raise a child, all because it threatened his manhood.

      Now he can move along to his brand new women and pretend like nothing is wrong. That his junk works, that he is a stud, not an infertile lying cheating piece of shit.

  • My cheater didn’t want to have sex with me either. It’s like they feel they may be unfaithful to the other woman! It seems the skanky other woman is so special as she is a pile of crap with issues and us chumps are treated like dirt! I can’t get my head around that!!!!

  • Chumptastic- you are very courageous to write about sex and rejection because they are such delicate and difficult to share issues. –Such shame attached to it…

    Midlife devastation of rejection and no sex just sucks – was 44 when Ex and I got together and am in such a weird place at 59. After fifteen years together and four years of the most confusing disillusionment (mental, physical, spiritual) my ex came forward with a big dramatic confession on new year’s eve 2014. When I asked him why he didn’t tell me about long-term affair, he said ‘she (MOW) didn’t want anyone to know’. When I asked why, he said, well she had a sexless marriage for ten years. What kind of unicorn wanker says that? He dragged me through our social life, parties, dinners with the MOW and her chump husband. What a travesty. Oh, that’s why there was no more sex for us, and all my concerns for our relationship got dismissed with disdain, that’s why I was judged and made to feel so unimportant, insignificant, and unloved, and unlovable all that time. Oh that’s why I ended up not even feeling human, more like just another piece of emotional roadkill.

    Now, 6 mos., and no contact later, as I crawl out of the quicksand of desperation and loss that was my life, I am just beginning to remember that I used to feel sexy, that I am alive, and it’s time to bring those lost pieces back on home because for the first time in a very long time I am remembering who I am. I am realizing that I made a terrible choice and I may never fully understand why but I do know ‘tis not I who is the unlovable one…

    I think fidelity is so sexy. –Had a great love (since died) before my Ex who used to say when we went to some party, or art show, that he loved looking at me across the room knowing that “he was the one who knew me” naked. Beyond attraction and being in love, a deeper character and high morals is the sexiest thing ever. A man who really knows himself and is unafraid to share it is the sexiest of all. And, the women who really love, cherish, and understand other women are supremely sexy.

    I had to read Chump Lady’s thought five times over because it is so insightful: “Talking about “his problems with a stranger” was too hard. But fucking a stranger? Piece of cake! (I pun.)” Omg, think about it, here you are turning yourself inside out trying to save a marriage from the wrecking ball, and it’s so simple really; it was just so much easier to fuck a stranger. There’s no love or sexy in that scenario, ever.

  • What gets me is that people – friends, family, others – believe this excuse. “Our marriage was over, we never had sex.” Whether it’s true or not. They actually believe that this is a legitimate excuse, which leads to blaming the faithful spouse. It takes two to tango, they say. Yes, it takes two to tango, but only one to unilaterally blow up the entire dance studio and everyone in it.

  • This no sex/ you are too fat combo has to be the oldest trick in the cheater handbook. Although the ” Nice Guys ” won’t tell you that , lest they be judged as the shallow pricks they are. It took about six months for Mr. “I’m in love with some whore from twenty years ago” to spit out the horrible truth. Anita is ” too fat to fuck “. Even though he didn’t seem to have any problem with it before his cheater confession. I guess he could always say he was fantasizing about Ms. Golden Crotch. But I really don’t think so.

    I did a nice dance for a while, dieting, and dressing up and wearing makeup, and being just as whorish as a fat chick can be. Then one day, I looked around. The elevator. The store. Work. Clubs. I woke up. An honest to god revelation.

    Other people were fatter, yet they had relationships where they weren’t treated like dirt. Everywhere I looked there were fat happy couples, singles, whatever. So I decided, fuck you, shallow boy and he didn’t have to worry about me being too fat to fuck any more. The end.

  • Sex 4 x week in this household, a wife who loved and desired him, happy to play games – he still cheated. Believe Chump Lady when she says this is about HIM and HIS shitty character, not you. It isn’t you.

  • Oh, and I wasn’t just too fat for him. I was too fat for ANYONE to have sex with. So if you are curious, when you are a size 18/180 pounds, NO ONE will ever have sex with you again. Although, I’m sure they will consent to a blow job.

    Seriously, though, do you see how stupid and immature this line of thinking (if you can call it that) is. I mean, where is the cut off ? 180? 170? 140? 120? Pounds. Maybe we can set a standard for men too. I can fuck you if you make $60,000 but $50,000 just doesn’t get my crotch going… Cheaters truly are imbeciles.

    • I’m 5’5′ and weighed 170 when I met my XH and he sure did enjoy ALL THAT! lol Like I said earlier 5x/wk for 20yrs and no complaints. Once he got into fantasy about Thai bitch though I did the bedroom pick me dance all the more. Yep he never laid eyes on her in person but she was in his head. After a few intimate times since BD he told me he couldn’t be with me anymore cause he felt he was cheating on her. HAHA It’s not about the body only that makes someone sexy anyway, it’s much more about the connection. Once I realized that the connection was gone I knew it was over. My XH said that we didn’t have any marital problems EXCEPT that we were never spiritually connected. Well now he is spiritually connected with his soulmate, just happens she’s a whore after his money. She will soon find out he has none left. One cannot compete with a fantasy nor should one have to!

      • Oh and I lost over 30 lbs after DD, looked better than since highschool, everyone was noticing and complimenting me, lots of men very interested. Yet I remained true until after divorce, the whole time I could tell he was wondering, but in the end it didn’t change his desire to come back to me.

    • Believe me, Anita, some women do set those standards for men as a prerequisite to intimacy. There are superficial assholes in both genders galore.

        • Everyone has a preferred body shape; sex is an aesthetic venture.

          I’ve seen some people on this site say they don’t want men who are too skinny, others don’t want men who have put on weight. Same with men–some prefer thin women, some look up curvaceous women. The trick with body shape, as with personality or hobbies, is to find someone who values your body shape, or personality, or shares similar interests/values. No point putting a square peg into a round hole. What separates friends from romantic partners is that you want physical intimacy with romantic partners, and that is tough to do if there is not an aesthetic match with your preferences. Thankfully, we’re not all chasing the same thing.

      • I concur, Arnold.
        Fact is though – if you see that sort of shallow shit, its a great red flag to get rid of people like that in your life. Its not just in relationships – its with work colleagues, relatives and even complete strangers.

  • Chump Lady says : “He was happy to eat cake (have his affair and his marriage) at your expense. You found out. You blew his cover — he didn’t confess. He was OKAY with the status quo. No consequences! Perpetual cake!”

    It took me a long time after D-Day to figure this out. I asked myself over and over why he didn’t tell me he was so unhappy. We could have talked it out, gotten counseling, I could have tried harder. Finally, I realized that not only had he not given any signs of our marriage being in trouble, it was EXACTLY HIS INTENTION to make me think things were okay. He wanted to be thought of as a good husband, a good father, and a good man. He worked very hard to create and sustain the image. It was essential that he keep me lulled into a false sense of security. He couldn’t risk the perfect cover for his other life where the Magic Boner (laughed out loud at that one) could frolic at will.

    • Cheryl, going by your post we were married to the same chap. Now he does not care on little bit about everyone and anyone knowing what and who he really is which is a predator. After all, he is screwing a 23 year old and he is 63. He is boasting up a storm like a teenager. I suppose once you are caught, you are found out so why put on an act any more. No point but to show the world what an ar*ehole he really is and has been all along. However, there are still people who come to his defence and I no longer bother with those people. It is too damaging to me.

      • I don’t think you need to be a psychic to see their future! He’d better be rich because otherwise he’s just old.

        • He is old alright and she is a prostitute from a 3rd world country where he is now living and has bought an apartment for his ‘new’ family. There is a mutual agreement, his money for her body. However, he is madly in love with the girl and is now helping raise her 2 little boys and he was never interested in our 2, and they actually prefer him to me. My kids have actually disowned me for some reason.

        • Since when is being old a bad thing, in and of itself? I see baldness and obesity being ridiculed here, as well, mainly by the women.
          Ever stop to consider that some of the betrayed men here may be old, have ED or are bald and fat?
          Most betrayeds are already feeling a loss of confidence and low self esteem from the trauma.
          How about the guys start calling their cheating wives fat, menopausal, dried up vagina, boob saggers. Might cheer up some of the older women and bolster their confidence in re-entering the dating world.
          I wish we could confine our insults to character and morals.
          Is it just me, or have others noticed that age and physical characteristics ridicule of the cheaters come, mainl, from the women?

          • Slinging personal insults at anyone is not helpful here. I think we may be getting careless because of our anger, so I hope everyone can think before they post!
            My boyfriend is 55, and is losing most of his hair. I think he’s very hot, because of who he is. Beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder.

            • With you on that Arnold. I read the comments. I gather they are coming from a place of anger and chumps feel comfortable letting some of their baser self off here. For example I don’t swear in real life cept in my head… Meanwhile on CL….
              I don’t find that the male chumps insult the physical of their cheaters…
              I don’t think that those making these comments ever said them to their cheaters.
              But let’s be considerate . We don’t make ourselves.

    • Cheryl, I don’t imagine the Magic Boner was any better for the OWhores than it was for us. Ex always was a sorry lay, long before he met me. When he told me OWhore was “in love ” with him, my first thought was “Has she ever actually had sex with you????” I laugh every time I think of that.

      I can understand not thinking that sex is that important if the person is decent otherwise. But a cheater, and a liar, AND a sorry lay.? No, thank you.

    • Cheryl,
      My experience very similar to yours. There are still people out there, including most of ex’s family, who think the divorce was MY doing. He is so good at acing the part of upstanding family man, wronged bynwife who,left him. In my case, he conducted his affairs in foreign cities, but behaved himself in out home town.

      He even said at the end “I always thought if you didn’t know, then it would not hurt you”. Stupid old git.

  • Dear Chumptastic,

    Your letter makes me sad, not because of the way you’ve been treated (it is, unfortunately, the common denominator around here), but because you sound so sad.

    I am afraid that you may not get what you deserve in the divorce because you are so overwhelmed by the betrayal and loss you are suffering. I hope you can find a fantastic lawyer and therapist who can help you out–because the first thing you need to do is get angry. You don’t need to throw wine glasses or pour bleach on his clothes, you need to use your anger to take care of yourself. And if it is going to take you awhile to get there (which it does for lots of us), I want some professionals watching your back while you progress at your own rate.

    It will get better, but please go find a lawyer and let him or her know that you want your share and a bit more to boot, and that you won’t accept a dime less. Tell them you are hurting, and you are hiring them specifically to handle the fighting and be the face of cold rage on the days that you don’t feel up to doing it yourself.

    Go get a therapist that can help you do the things you need to do to realize that you didn’t deserve this, you aren’t used up, your aren’t worthless, and that the people you choose to spend time with in the future will be lucky to know you.

    I hope the day that you look on your STBX’s departure with relief and joy dawns as soon as possible.

    • Love this, very good advice, When I knew I was going out the door of the marriage, I was lucky to have a good therapist (for me). She had me say this to my lawyer- Please watch out for me, and get me everything I deserve, because I tend to care way too much about Cheater, and give in to him. I think it was good advice, the X could always make me feel so sorry for him!

  • this is a heartbreaking situation and i am sorry you’re going through it. sounds very similar to my situation.

    “I did tell her husband and they are now divorcing.”

    absolutely the right thing to do.

    “We were best friends, talked every day, slept in the same bed, had similar interests, raised great kids, worked hard, laughed a lot, held hands, kissed all the time”

    i could’ve said the same thing. towards the end, i really felt like things were improving between us. i think their extra-good behaviour at home during the affair is a distraction tactic. makes it even harder when you find out about the affair because things seemed to be getting better.

    regarding sex – he could’ve spoken up at any time. this whole “doesn’t like discussing his personal problems with strangers” thing is a load of bullshit. to me it translates to “i’m on my way out the door and don’t want to invest any effort in you any more”.

    one day you’ll be able to say “good riddance” and really mean it.

  • Haven’t read comments yet. Wanted to post this because I am sick and tired of the sexless marriage trope. I had a sexless marriage for most of 5 years because Saddam had issues that HE said were physical. At year 3 and 4 I spent a great deal of time thinking this over very hard because nothing was changing. Sex is VERY important to me but both times I decided I could live with this because I really love him. And I learned to suppress my sex drive, so well it’s hard to get it back. CHUMP move.

    Another big deal is taking so long to come to the realization that even if Saddam could not have a climax that was NO reason not to have sex. In other words, even if it really were physical, so far as he was concerned there could be no sex unless HE got off. That’s a big fuck you right there, that shows no love toward me. And obviously he liked sex, his porn habit proves that.

    Speaking of which, his problem was not physical, it was psychological and he refused to do anything except take a blue pill and that didn’t work for him. It was about his 3 hour porn surfing every morning and what the fuckever else. During our very brief reconciliation phase he said this sex thing had happened to him in LTRs before. The next day when I tried to discuss that he denied ever saying it.

    Bottom line, I don’t think the dysfunction was all about porn. I think the biggest reason he denied me sex was about power and control. He KNEW sex was very important to me, he took it away and dangled it in front of me. Who knows how many women he fucked while he refused me over those years. And eventually he just couldn’t perform. I know for a fact he didn’t perform for his last OW either for a very long time. Cheating is not about sex, it’s abuse, it’s about power and control over another person. It’s about disrespect.

    AND, the first thing Saddam said when we saw the MC was “We haven’t had sex in years!!!” He left out the part where HE was the one that refused to have sex, he left out all the times we talked and I begged him to do something about this. He left out all the ways “we” tried. It is nothing more than another blame shift and excuse. Fuck that, don’t let your cheating asshole rewrite your history, it’s their favorite blame shift.

    • “Cheating is not about sex, it’s abuse, it’s about power and control over another person. It’s about disrespect”.

      Datdamwuf, ^^^ So, so true ^^^. Oh, the array of my ex’s problems; hernia, super controlled schedule bed every night before 10pm, eczema, and watered down sex when it did “happen”, and then nothing…

      –SO unbelievably confusing, SO not about being a couple, SO not about including my desires – SO about power and control. –ALL this to keep his secret life going. –ALL this just to mask the ongoing deceit.

      I consider myself very lucky – no MC- it was so totally over when D-Day #2 happened, I now know that it was such a blessing. Why would I ever agree to drag out my humiliation for a pathological liar?

      Oh, good riddance to Ex – if he had just said I need to bang the OW but want to give you the freedom to choose and live your life, I would actually have respect for that, –But NO, not only is it about disrespect but it is about things like: he really loved me, loved the caretaker, the laughter and song, the Sunday Times, the literature, the us against the world, the intimate dinners, our friends, the concern for his welfare, the acceptance of his wayward children, the giant family gatherings, and the cake… Ohhhhhh, he loved the cake which I interpret as the comfortable soft shoe, the warm fuzzy thing, the Madonna…

      Oh, the Madonna / Whore complex…

      Good riddance to all of that (*&$^%*^####^%(&^%%%^$@@!#@^%%^&**”:>|}{:>(____) CRAP! It’s absolutely my loss too. I really tried to understand the crazy! And then, BOOM….

      To actually think I cared about him, about us, about our future is now becoming a distant and far away nightmare. No more rewriting history, no more abuse, power, or control. It’s amazing, I am free.

      I love your raw and embracing posts Datdamwuf – they give me strength and hope!

  • I got shot down countless times if I tried to initiate anything sexual. I don’t think he’d even need both hands to count the number of times I declined – OVER 26 FUCKING YEARS! I was available, willing, and appreciative. I WANTED sexual intimacy, and begged for it to the bitter end.

    It was the fucking snake who had all the excuses to avoid sex. It was the fucking snake who, when he deigned to do ANYTHING with me, began avoiding intercourse and oral in favor of hands and BODs. I really did start to wonder if he was saving actual intercourse for another woman. Could have been, based on the fucked up sense of priorities cheating shitwads seem to have.

    YES, the constant rejection affected me. I wasn’t the most confident woman about my desirability to begin with, and he shattered what little self-esteem I had. The emotional abuse, the gaslighting, the lies and withholding did literally drive me crazy. Minor depression issues ended up consuming me.

    But I eventually worked out a lot of my issues in therapy, found better ways to cope than trying to numb myself with booze, started standing up for myself more, which only made the abuse worse.

    It scares me that my hard work on myself might have gone for naught if I hadn’t discovered the snake’s relationship with the OW. But DDay happened while I still had enough fight left in me to get the fuck out of the dysfunction I’ve dealt with for decades. I’ve filed and now I am waiting for the process to get in motion, and the day this divorce is finalized can’t come fucking fast enough for me. I’m 53 years old, this snake stole half my life, and I don’t want him having a day more of it than necessary.

  • this post triggered something for me. Although his official “reason” was that I was frigid and didn’t give good BJs, it was the long email/texts ex was having with OW about ME and how horrible I was. I know many of you experienced this and according to my therapist, even if you never had evidence, this is common cheater tactic, to portray the spouse in worst possible light. Many psychological terms apply here: cognitive dissonance, splitting, blameshiting…. Whereas I’ve emotionally let go of ex many years ago, the real struggle comes from knowing that this whore still believes that I’m this rotten ex spouse and I just don’t know why this bothers me. My low self-esteem? I appreciate your input.

    • I don’t think it’s low esteem, Lara. I think it’s a misguided attempt at clearing your name with a whore.

      Stop it.

      • yeah, but my mind goes to fucked up places, like that she’s already told enough people what I horrible person I am, and then I’ll lose friends over this or something. I know it’s irrational thinking. But I’ve become obsessed with her stealing that part of my life too as ex and I have many mutual friends in common. Now the whore is on my turf.

    • It’s NOT you– Your EX is a lying POS!!! Don’t worry what the Ho thinks—- Who cares what a Ho thinks anyway?!? No doubt xh was spouting crap to make her feel sorry for him…poor sausage!

      The Ho was happy to fuck a married man, so how does her judgement mean anything at all???

    • I think it’s just justice. Injustice. Her superiority that he finally has a good someone to take care of him… I think it’s because you are seeing her deluded image and projection as the same shit he pulled on you. It’s one of the only ways you pity her

      • Lara, let her have him for a while and she will see the truth once the honeymoon is over. He can’t keep acting forever.

  • My XH and I had a great sex life so see? It doesn’t even matter. A cheater is gonna cheat. He even me after we divorced that I was the best sex he ever had. These people make NO SENSE.

  • XH, once upon a time, was pretty good in the sack– when he wanted to be (back when he gave a damn)– but eventually, not so much.

    I became his receptacle. Cook. Maid. Receptacle. (And I resented the HELL out of it! It was actually a bittersweet relief for awhile, when he wasn’t bugging me for “a quickie.” I. F’ing. HATE. Quickies. to this day!)

    How many times did I just let him have it, trying to pretend he wanted me *for me* until I got off too, OR– just faked it until he finished? I don’t miss that at all. Makes me feel ashamed that I ever put up with such bullshit!

    His devaluation of me was sudden and complete– I was young and so naiive– I really thought something was wrong with ME, not that he was simply showing his True Colors!

    He sucked until he died. He was someone else’s problem by then, though… Good riddance!

    Too bad I never got to *flip him off* one last time.

    (Mostly Meh, but once in a while…. =) UGH! )

  • Yes, this is my truth as well. The sex stopped almost immediately after we were married. I attributed it to:
    -His fatigue.
    -His disability.
    -His stress.
    -His embarrassment–ED, PE.
    -His pain.

    When I tried to talk to him about it I was given the blame and a litany of excuses:
    -You don’t have that spark.
    -You aren’t passionate enough.
    -We don’t have anything.
    -We are not compatible.
    -You shouldn’t have to work on these things.
    -Why don’t you figure it out?
    -Why don’t you go fix yourself.
    -I don’t need sex.
    -I can go on like this forever.
    -You are too x or y.

    I took the blame and the shame. In reality, he was probably cheating the entire time we were together. Thank you for this post today.

    • SOS, I lived with Saddam for 12 years, it was only after he convinced me to marry him that the sex stopped. It was his end goal to get a lock on me. Once we were married things got bad in other ways too. Don’t take that shame and blame, it’s on him. Jedi Hugs!

  • Sex dried up for ys, too, shortly after marriage. I think I was nice, in shape and considerate in bed. It was never just about me getting off.
    Once enmeshed with the disordered, they often stop sex with you. They have you trapped and know it.

  • Arnold – ok, now you’ve got me curious. I was one with an XH that only wanted sex to please himself. In fact, I don’t ever recall sex (even with prior boyfriends when single) that the guy always always always came. Me, not so much, but X didn’t even try. But, that’s beside my point. Are you telling me you X would lead you on sexually and you wouldn’t get any release? Guys are different from gals in this respect. I’m sure it would make a guy really grumpy if he got (what we used to call when virgins) cock-teasers.

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