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Dear Chump Lady, I’m the Other Woman and I feel a lot of guilt

onlyowDear Chump Lady,

I am the other woman and I am depressed and feel a lot of guilt.

I am married and am having an affair with someone who has a spouse and young children. I want to leave my husband because it is hurting him — he doesn’t know but I am sure he suspects it 99.9% and just isn’t ready to outright accuse me of it. I also want to leave my affair partner because it is the right thing to do. But I am having a hard time doing this because I love him.

We’ve been having an affair for almost 3 years now and I have tried to leave him 3 times. I feel a lot of guilt for allowing myself to fall in love with him. And not choosing to be stronger about leaving both relationships. It is so selfish. Your website helps me — reminds me that I am doing something terrible and I don’t want to continue being that person. I don’t want to feel this guilt. I hope I find the strength to leave without causing everyone any more pain than I already have. I just don’t know what to say, and have therefore not said anything yet.

How do I leave my husband without hurting him more than I have to? If I tell him about the affair I am afraid he will tell my affair partner’s spouse (and break apart his family). If I don’t tell him about the affair I am afraid it will make him question himself (his value, worth, attractiveness, etc.) and lose trust in his own intuitions (what he felt, what he thought, etc.). This is so hard. And I know I am selfish. And a coward. And my mind says I want to be a better person but my heart is still pining for a relationship with my affair partner. I am being so indecisive and I don’t know how to stop.

Full of Guilt

Dear FOG,

Yes you do know how to stop — you just STOP. You just don’t WANT to stop, that’s your problem. And yes, that makes you a selfish, terrible person.

This is so hard.

No, being a chump is hard. Eating cake at the expense of two chumps and small children is fun! — so much fun that you’ve been doing it for three solid years. You get attention from your husband, you get attention from the Other Man. It’s luv and double kibble portions!

Face THAT and you can deal with your guilt. You like the perks of cake, and when you do the cost/benefit analysis of coming clean and stopping, you give yourself the green light to keep cheating instead. You prefer your bubble of specialness over the well-being of the people you purport to care about.

You can dress it up that you’re afraid to hurt everyone, and that’s why you don’t tell. But really — THREE YEARS? If you truly cared, you would’ve stopped. Our actions communicate louder than our words. Fucking around for three years tells me the guilt and depression don’t eat you up that much.

I don’t want to feel this guilt. I hope I find the strength to leave without causing everyone any more pain than I already have. I just don’t know what to say, and have therefore not said anything yet.

You hope you find the strength? Like this is a mystical matter of faith? Like the Strength Fairies are going to just alight on your porch one day and wave their “Quit acting like a whore” wands and POOF! give you the magic resolve?

You don’t know what to say? Do you think words are like Ouija boards? You just stare and them and feel the vibrations and the spirits will lead you there?

You have agency, FOG. You created this clusterfuck and the only way out is, yes, painful. Those are the consequences of your actions, plus interest. And if you think you’re depressed, that’s nothing compared to the pain and depression your husband and the OM’s wife are going to feel, only they didn’t get to enjoy three fun years of cake. Yes the truth will hurt them, but they deserve the truth. Not telling the OM’s wife is protecting your affair partner. Will their family break up? Yes, it very well might. You should’ve thought of that three years ago. The truth isn’t breaking up the family, the affair is.

Speaking of the truth, quit telling yourself your husband knows (so, hey! at some level he must be okay with it!) Bullshit. He’s a chump. You’ve chumped him. And I guarantee that he’s already questioned his value, worth, and attractiveness. You’re not sparing him from those feelings — he’s been tortured with that shit for years with a wife who checked out on him. You want him to feel better? Tell him the TRUTH. Yes, he’ll be angry, but he’ll also know it wasn’t HIM. It was YOU and the douchebag OM.

Oh, and about that guy — the dude with two small children who you LOVE. You “love” a man who is okay cheating on his wife and small kids. That’s his character. That’s the person you esteem and admire. And you’re a person who gets a three-year high on “I’m The One He REALLY Loves!” You get kibbles from that guy choosing you over his wife and kids — and that’s the ecstasy you’re reluctant to let go of. Only you know, deep down, that he doesn’t choose you. You’re in an eternal loop of the pick me dance. Thus the depression.

If you feel guilty about your part in all of this, if there is a small moral person inside of you trying to get out, then come clean. End it with everyone and get yourself into some deep therapy, pronto. That’s the only way I know to address your depression and guilt honestly — and it’s also your best shot at having a healthy relationship someday.

Please tell, but please also never confuse your “pain” with those chumps’ pain — it’s not in the same universe.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • It is key to understand that the hurting of people is happening already, has already happened, with or without the reveal. The avoidance of the reveal is a desire to avoid your own pain, not saving others from theirs.

    You want to avoid feeling the shame that you can now largely avoid. If you tell the truth, you have to deal real-time, outside your own zone of control, with real consequences. Make no mistake, any motivation you feel to keep sneaking around is based in pure self-interest. A box of shit is a box of shit, even if you wrap it in a pretty pink bow.

    You probably came here, FOG, at least in part, for a motivating kick in the ass. Now that you have received it, enforce that spine, tell the simple truth without peppering it with your justifications and excuses and detailed descriptions of your love for the OM (hasn’t your chump been screwed over enough???), and get some help to learn to cope with your addictive personality issues. CL is correct – it’s your only hope.

    • You nailed it, Ami. People lie and deceive and say, “it’s because I don’t want to hurt other people,” when it’s really to avoid the consequences of their own actions. Since I kicked my cheater out three years ago after seven months of unicorn hunting, I’ve been beating that message into my kids heads. If you are lying or thinking of lying, maybe it’s your actions that need changing, not your words. “Can I just tell my teacher that I was too sick to do the assignment?” (and their dad encourages this kind of deceit). “No, you can tell your teacher that you ran out of time, or that you didn’t feel like it, or whatever the truth is.” And the more they feel the consequences, the more they’ll do the right thing in the first place.

      • Right on! Asswipe always counseled the kids, don’t lie, keep your word, do the right thing! Haha! Pot calling the kettle…. Do as I say not how I do. He hates liars and being lied to. Haha again! The kids tell me the truth lie to him, don’t want his wrath. Didn’t tell me the truth didn’t want to hurt me when he was already doing just that. Spot on for they don’t tell because they don’t want to here it. Don’t want to be responsible for their actions and lousy characters. Efffing cowards is what they all are!

        • Mine does the same thing! As a matter of fact, when I found out that the kids had been holding in the fact that they had met his affair partner and had been hanging out with her for months for “Sunday Family Funday” – called him on it and received the following text:

          “I never once asked the kids to lie to anyone. Not once. All I ever said was that there were no lies in our family, but the times that Whore has been with us, that you might not care to hear about it. I repeatedly told them NOT to lie to you if they were asked about it. Furthermore, it’s not any different when the kids don’t tell me what they do when they are with you, except I told them that there shouldn’t be any secrets in the family.”

          Right…just like you didn’t lie about your affair and the extent of it and keeping that a secret from your family for months…

          I really wanted to tell him to go fuck himself, but I just didn’t respond instead.

          • WJH–That’s some narcissistic bullshit right there. Good that you didn’t respond. Nothing you could say to him would matter anyway, since he clearly has a very different moral compass than you.

        • My cheater said the same thing, “I didn’t want to hurt you. I’m sooooooooory.” I had asked him several times if he was cheating and he always said no. Then I tossed the evidence at him and he still tried to lie. I asked, what you going to do? He said, he didn’t know. SOOOO, I said I will help you decide…..”Get the F*** out!” He said, I’ll move my things out this week…and I said, NOPE, get the **** out of bed and start packing. I grabbed his stuff, threw it garbage bags and tossed it into the garage. I was only trying to be helpful. . All the lying was to protect his feelings, nothing to do with mine. Bye-Bye, SkankBoy!

          • Yes indeed. My feelings were of no importance to him. Forge on, full speed ahead to fuck me over and lie. He has no empathy, no compassion. No feelings, none, he does shit and then ooooppps, there is a big black pit where his heart and feelings should be. Asshole! Sooner I’m away from him the better!

          • Well done on kicking him out immediately. I kicked mine out finally when he didn’t come home on new years eve. He had been doing that for months. And I folded and packed his shit for him like a dumbass. I wish I had piled it in the yard and burned it instead.

            My cheater kept telling me NOT that he didn’t want to hurt me but that he didn’t want to make me mad. Apparently hurting me was nothing he even gave thought to. All he was worried about was making me mad!?! Like I was this devil woman when pissed off or something. I don’t know. I do remember saying something like my husband is fucking someone else and is not home taking care of shit HOW could I not be mad?

            Asshole never care about my feelings so much so he didn’t even think about hurting me. In fact looking back, he was doing shit on purpose to hurt me. Both of them got off on my pain. So much better off without that kind of bullshit.

      • “This is so hard. And I know I am selfish. And a coward. And my mind says I want to be a better person but my heart is still pining for a relationship with my affair partner. I am being so indecisive and I don’t know how to stop.”

        These are thoughts she should have had before beginning her relationship with scumbag.
        Her heart says one thing her mind says another? How about using common sense?
        What was she thinking in the first place? I’m married and he’s married to someone else..,
        We know she wasn’t thinking of her husband or AP’s wife and kids.
        Yes, extremely selfish, she doesn’t know how to stop because she doesn’t want to stop.
        Personally I think she’s enjoying the entire thing and feels a sense of superiority.
        She has a huge secret which adds to her excitement. I don’t think she’s sincere.

    • Totally. I got so angry with my stbx when he tried to tell me that he didn’t say anything about his concerns/doubts/dissatisfaction/whatever, because at the end of the day what his blindsiding me meant was that it easier for HIM to keep quite and act happy, check out, ensure a pair of female arms to land in, and discard our marriage without ever giving me a seat at the table, then to be uncomfortable for a few minutes initiating a difficult conversation about his feelings. So please, spare me the line about how you didn’t want to hurt MY feelings.

      And in terms of suppressing the shame and guilt, my stbx actually said, “It’s not like I’m leaving you FOR someone else, bc the other stuff [his vague dissatisfaction with physical intimacy] still applies.” The sad thing is that I don’t think that was entirely deliberate rationalization—I think he’s really convinced himself of that. That it’s not like he’s *cheating* or anything because really he was already done with the relationship. He tried to leave the affair out of his Dear Jane exit entirely, and only copped to it when I told him that nothing he was saying made any sense.

      • oops edit – that he didn’t say anything about his concerns bc he knew it would hurt my feelings.

        • Got the same exact script as well! He had been feeling for months that he was unhappy and thought he could work out the feelings on his own so he didn’t cause a riff between us and hurt me because I already had so much on my plate. But really, he did the same thing that your stbx did. He denies the cheating and it gets left out of any of the conversations – he left our marriage because it was dysfunctional (lie), we fought and were creating an unhealthy environment for the children (lie), and that he didn’t feel good enough (bullshit). It makes me feel crazy and sick.

          • Sigh. it never fails. I read these posts and I can’t fathom how no matter the country, social background or economic bracket, the thinking is the same.

            My stbx gave reasons for leaving which would change from conversation to conversation until he found one to stick.
            – he was unhappy ( i suppose being a jerk would make one unhappy).
            – he would have more money if he was not with us (true since he would be contributing less).
            – he could achieve more (possibly with no family commitments to ‘hold you back’).
            – he was nobody’s priority (why didn’t i think of that argument in response to his to his having other women besides his wife (me)?).
            – he hated his job (still working the same job. the pay is too good to give up).
            – he hated his life (he is STILL alive!).
            -he did not think his life should be work and washing dishes (indeed not…without the thrill of an affair what is the meaning of life oh Confucius?).
            -he was depressed and writing a (dirty) song helped ease it.(i ..have…no…words.)
            he told me these and other gems after giving me an ultimatum to get on board with his plan. I still don’t know what the plan is but now that i type this i am not sure it made sense to get on board with someone whose thought process is so messed up.

            what he told the kids though is that he left because we would argue.he told me we used to argue everyday. where was i living? did another woman come in and argue in my place? because I know we did not argue everyday! If we did I would have left long before. We obviously had periods where things were going very well, hence why i stayed on. hoping that those periods would get longer. Hope….yah….

            he claims that we were modelling dysfunctional behaviour to the children.Lord help me… we were often affectionate in front of the children.we would spend time as a family at home (going out was another story). the children were assured of their family unit. their reaction to the loss of it tells me that the dysfunction of which he speaks probably only related to his own hidden activities. Up to now the children are clueless as to why he left despite his ‘explanation’ and this is because they did not see it that way. They ask me and I tell them they would have to ask him but proper men don’t abandon their families.

            Of course we argue more now. I take absolutely no shit from him. I don’t have to.

            • I do think they all follow the same script. We also had an “unhealthy relationship” all of a sudden, even though it seemed far from it to me. When I found out dip shit was cheating, he sent me an email saying that his relationship with OW was “healthy and supportive” and a “model” for our unborn child.

              I guess it was healthy for him to cheat with his friend’s wife with her young kids in the house. Yeah, that’s a role model of mental wellness right there.

      • i got the same script. except our lack of physical intimacy was because of his alleged ED.

        none of the F*#+ed up skein made sense until CL

        • Same here, or similar. The times I tried to talk to him about it he always just said his sex drive had gotten low. Also found some pills that looked suspiciously like knock-off Viagra after he left me and I was cleaning out some of his stuff.

        • ha! the E.D.! I was told by my ex-husband that somewhere… along the way … (he couldn’t remember where or when?) I offended him…. thus the “shooting pool with a rope” type of physical response for sex. WTF? I mean they lie about freakn everything. Everything.

          • Mine was plagued with erectile dysfunction early in the marriage (was psychologically sensitive) Modonna Whore Complex the marriage counselor told me! Had no trouble telling me I gave him an STD even though we had been abstinent! Such lying, conniving, manipulative, selfish assholes!

      • Plus, by keeping her cheating secret, she is keeping the door open to do it again. Or never stop doing it in the first place, which is the more likely scenario.

    • I was ina five year affair
      We kept breaking things off and he kept coming back
      This time he told me he was leaving his wife and he loved me and picked me and wanted to be with me
      After listening to him say it and him contacting an attorneys but still not doing anything about it that he needed time to get his financial life in order I got tired of it and called his wife and let her know what was going on
      He made me look like the liar so I sent her emails to back up what he had been telling me
      He has had multiple affairs on her
      And he got mad at me for betraying his trust
      So he cut me off and the two of them are living happily ever after

  • Lying and deceiving is what created this situation in the first place. More of that won’t fix it. Truth sharing is what is needed. CL is right. And it is not the truth that is destructive but the cheating.

    • I would add that by withholding the truth from your husband you are still in manipulation mode. Doesn’t he at least deserve to know? You did pledge lifelong fidelity to him. The least you could do is admit you broke your promise.

      How would you like to be treated if in his shoes? Would you like him to lie, cheat, and carry on behind your back then attempt to further control you by withholding important information? I know I wouldn’t. That is just another act of cruelty to add to the pile of three years of cheating.

      • Fog,
        Write down what you want out of life for yourself, children. Id bet you want an Authentic Life! No lying, cheating, decieving! Thats what I hear you saying. Change yourself. You cant go around the pain or under the pain of doing this. You have to go through it. Stop being a coward and let the cards fall!

      • A person who has been cheated on has paid the price of admission to know what was really happening behind the curtain (in my case, with 20 years of my life I can’t get back).

        If a cheater is truly remorseful and repentant, they should own what they did and tell the whole truth. When the circumstances scream that there is more than has been revealed, and there is, to leave this unfinished business in the life of the betrayed spouse is just heartless. In my view, it is a final dagger to the heart of a person already on life-support.

        For similar reasons, I struggle daily to decide what to do in terms of telling the ex-wife of my ex-wife’s affair partner (we were all married at the time). She suspected, but could not prove, her husband’s infidelity when he divorced her three years ago (I did not learn of the affair until around two years after their divorce). She was married to the guy 20 years. He denied having an affair during the time he was cheating with my EW. I think she should know, even now, what happened in the last six years of her marriage wasn’t her fault. I would want to know. It would change how I saw my role in the decline and end of the marriage. At the same time, some say it would only hurt her at this point, which I would not want to do. I mentioned this before in another post. It’s a no-brainier to me if she were still married or divorcing, but these circumstances are a little murkier for me.

        • JK,

          Personally, I think it is still worth telling her. Her knowing is not what causes the pain. It is what happened that causes the pain. Ignorance is NOT bliss. Letting her know even after the divorce may be painful but also may help her heal and make sense of the confusion.

          There’s a proverb that talks about trusting the blows of a friend over the kisses of an enemy. This may be a blow to her, but it is kinder than leaving her in the dark, IMO.


        • JK–I, too, vote for telling her. That poor woman continues to be gaslighted by her X’s lack of admission, and thus may be wondering what she did to cause the end of the marriage. The answer is “nothing,” and you have that answer to give her.

        • Tell her. You are not being a snitch in so doing nor are you doing with the bad intent. You understand that mentally she would have suffered and probably continues to suffer as a result of the deceit she experienced. I was always grateful to know. Knowledge is power. It will help her regain some sense of her narrative.

  • My cowardly cheater opted for the “Im divorcing you because you are a bad wife” route followed by a laundry-list of every mistake Ive ever made since I was 18. It was extra special that he listed my job caring for the dying as “disgusting”.

    Ive thought about it thousands of times since he ripped my chest open, tore my heart out and stomped on it in front of me…if he really wanted to go (turns out he didn’t, he just wanted to feel less guilty about cake eating so he threw this at me to “end” the marriage so he wouldn’t have to feel what he didn’t want to feel).

    If he had decided to go, what I needed him to say was:

    “I have decided that I no longer want to be in this relationship. Please don’t try to talk me out of it because I have already consider it at length. I am sorry that this will surely hurt you and that is an awful reality for us both but I am no longer capable of continuing in it. You are a good, decent attractive person who has value so please dont take my decision as an indicator that you have no worth. I will be leaving tonight and we can work through details in the very near future”

    or something like that

    Wallowing in extended cake eating is really selfish and mean of both of you. Shit or get off the pot. Your spouse deserves the freedom to find real love with a person who will treasure him and be truthful. I deeply resent all the years my nowdeadhusband was awful to me but kept me around as a kibble dispenser and wife appliance.

    Regain what dignity you may have left and finish this with some degree of integrity.

    • ^^^^^ your ‘how to end a relationship’ guide should be on billboards across the country^^^^^

      our endings were similar, unicornnomore. i was so confused. Chump Lady and Chump Nation made sense out the crazy. so grateful.

      • Thanks Chumpette…as much as it would have hurt to hear that, I would have/could have dusted myself off and moved along, but the lying, cheating, mean assbastard blaming asshole stuff…scarred me for life

    • It’s funny—part of the reason my stbx’s leaving has fucked with my head so much (aside from the fact that I didn’t see it coming), is that his exit speech was somewhere in between the classic in-love-with-OW and the straightforward, honest example you’ve provided. He’s not been nasty the way a lot of spouses we read about here have been, and gave me some of the “you deserve better” language, but while simultaneously telling me he’d never been attracted to me and how now he knows what true happiness feels like (with someone he’d known for just a few months). So confusing.

      • You are well rid of Caspar Milquetoast but he was right about one thing, you do deserve better. His excuses are ridiculous, one excuse he was never attracted to you, but he married you in any case? The next excuse is he found the love of his life and realized that in only a few months? I think some desperate skank gave him the time of day….let her have the weakling.

      • oh dear God…. fuck that dude… I’m so sorry that happened to you. The “rational” way is the worst thing of all. Usually what follows is: “its NOBODY’S fault…. things just happen…. and “this” happened, we both bear blame…” PUKE PUKE PUKE

      • Yes, I was the love of his life til he met the whore and instantly fell in love. Bullshit.

      • Well you do deserve better! I believe the sadistic twist of their parting blow (I’ve never been attracted to you, no one will ever want you) is meant to keep us stuck. They are moving on because we won’t tollerate their sorry asses and they want us waiting for future supply. They don’t want us to move on.

        • Yeah, except get this: he said he wasn’t and never was attracted to me…but that I was beautiful, and that I’d have no problem finding someone else…WTF am I supposed to do with that?

          • STBXisgross–ignore it. Why pay attention to the rantings of the disordered? You will find someone, but not because he said so. And the fuckers always re-write history, so I’m sure he was very attracted to you at first.

            • what tempest said. screw what he thinks about you. what do you think about you?you are expecting validation from him. it can’t come from him. get it from people who truly care and from yourself. you can’t do anything with what he told you. it has no meaning for you.

              • I know, I know. My rational brain knows that. The emotional brain is slow to catch on!

              • LOL! LOL! yea. ditto. but tell yourself till your emotional brain believes it. brain playing tricks on us. Hope dies last.

          • STBXisgross – he’s saying that to you to justify what he’s done. He decided in his own head that that MUST be the reason he had to cheat. To him, he’s a great guy who just had to cheat because he was never attracted to you. Justifying his shitty behavior at your expense. It’s pure bullshit.

          • Mine said something suspicious several months before Dday -“you are classically beautiful. But not everyone has to look like you to be considered attractive.” I didn’t think much about it at the time. Just thought it was yet another mean dig. Should have known then!

            I have long brown hair and twat waffle (who’s own marriage was broken by her x’s infidelity – ohhhhh the irony) has short blond hair, wonky (uneven eyes) and a crooked smile. Oh. And she posts more selfies on FB than Kim Kardashian. Narcissistic and not very bright. Match made in heaven.

    • Unicornomore- It’s interesting, and maybe ironic, that your husband, who despised your job caring for the dying, suddenly dropped dead.
      Also, it was probably you giving care and concern to anyone but him, that he hated!

      • You right – interesting and ironic…dating as a 40something widow was odd – people assume you are single because of divorce and the death thing weirds them out AND THEN they learn that I care for the dying (and I hesitate to mention this because it sends some people reeling, but I only care for dying children).

        My work seemed to make him uncomfortable but I wonder if it was because it has a certain decency to it…dignified work where I tell the truth and care for rich and poor with equal commitment. My work is pure and good even when/if Im a jerk or lazy or stupid and I think it challenged his narrative that I was an awful person who deserved to be betrayed.

        I just got off the phone with one of his closest friends…I asked him about deadHs cheating and he seemed to know nothing (I think I believe him). DeadH seemed to live this side of his life WAAAAYYY on the down low.

        • Unicornomore– Your work made him uncomfortable because he could not face the religious, moral and otherwise worthy aspects of what you are and what you do. He did not feel empathy even for a dying child, let alone understand someone doing the incredibly difficult and profound work of caring for a dying child. There was a roaring black hole where his soul should have been. They always enjoy trying destroy those they believe are morally superior, it gives them such a droll thrill, at least for that moment. In the end, he knew he was damaged and empty.

          BTW, my ex cheated for at least 15 years, double life, group sex with co-workers, brought the women around me and our children as “family friends”, made up the most astonishing lies to “laugh” at the unsuspecting spouses behind our backs all the while saying what awful people we were. Fooled me, fooled our kids, fooled their co-workers. Fooled AP#1’s husband and kids (one of whom had to get DNA tested post D-Day), etc. No one ever told me, no one ever apparently knew except the inner cabal of sociopaths. They enjoy the game, it’s what they do because they are, simply put, evil.

    • O my goodness.. My STBXW said exactly same thing to me (almost line for line).

      How bad husband I was, how she was unhappy for 17 years (we were together for 17 years). She listed stuff that I did “wrong” 17 years ago (LOL).

      I presume it’s too take make it easier to jump ship (into another guys bed).

      Like you said, instead just say “I want out”.

      • So sorry for your pain SDK…at the time, I was so gutted by the distain he seemed to have for me…at one point I said to a buddy “it makes me wonder if he is having an affair but at this point it doesnt even matter”…I later realized that this method of bomb drop (“scorched earth” you could call it) is intended to cause SO MUCH pain that we would (and likely did) become blind to their betrayals while we gasped for air.

        Mine followed it up by physically staying in the house (acting like he was doing me a huge favor letting me enjoy his presence even though I didnt deserve it) while I flung myself into a world class “pick me dance” . Years later it puzzled me endlessly why he would stay if I were really THAT awful.

        The degree of cruelty he chose to use in his BD is something I will struggle with for the rest of my life. I told my newhusband that if he ever decided to end our M, all he had to do was tell me. ( It is a sobering thought that my first H has since had the opportunity to explain his actions to God since he died.)

        • unicornomore sorry to hear too. And happy news about your new husband.

          But I knew something was up. I was not blind.. did some “pick me dance” but only not sink the marriage (2 kids). But then I realised I was being a doormat. Told her when she wanted out, if you go , don’t come back. She did.

          I filed for divorce month later (she was first at attorney but didn’t file). Now she is dragging her feet.

          I know I was a good husband, not the best, but never drunk, gave her what she wanted.. no abuse. But it was not enough.. then so be it! can’t care for someone who doesn’t love me..

  • I’m speechless. Why would an OW come here, pour her heart out and expect sympathy. …more kibble perhaps?
    Thank you for keeping it real…..

    • I’m wondering the same… the only thing I could think of is that she has only ‘minimally’ been reading…. and more than likely, the same “veil” that covers her conscience has also been at work here, after all, she’s just at the foundation of it all – a victim of this whole thing. So won’t ChumpLady see that? That she’s remorseful??

  • I hope she listens and puts on her big girl pants to be real with everyone. Or did she wrote in for more cake.

  • Dear pos other woman. Tracy is absolutely right. Your pain is nothing compared to the chumped. The one thing I wanted from my cheater was to respect me enough to tell me the TRUTH!! you’re sad? Boo hoo! You’re depressed wah wah! You want advice? I don’t think you will get any sympathy here. Promises and honor don’t seem to mean much in the world today. Go to the cheaters sites maybe you will get sympathy there. Try putting yourself in the chumped shoes. Try ending one relationship honestly and openly before starting another one! Your sorry, you feel bad, three years! You’re not sorry not one bit! A cake eater is what you are. Oh and by the way fuck you.

  • 3 years is a relationship, there is no fixing anything here, just file for divorce at this point and serve your husband, tell him you lied for years and fell in love with another man so he knows it’s not his fault. Don’t steal anymore of his life!!!! Fuck. My STBXH had a 4 year affair, I hate him, so be prepared for that from your husband.

    • Correctamundo Kate50. Love everything you said!
      This thing is not a woman, she does not deserve that name. A real woman owns her feelings, and treats others with respect.
      Oh yeah- she’s a Cake-eater!

  • Did she wrote in? Wow. Sorry. No coffee yet. Did she write in. Holy cow. Get it together CR.

      • That’s interesting CL, maybe you could post an OW/OM letter each Saturday so Chump Nation can answer them. Naw; that would get old fast, I doubt there is much variation.

        • I’m not surprised you get a lot of OW letters. The great majority of OW are delusional personality disordered and selfish. It must be about them, even so far as writing to Chump Lady. They want attention, good or bad it’s about attention…attention…

          I occasionally check out, it’s a whiner fest for OW or a bragging fest and many of their user names are a hoot such as…

          Mrs. Scarlet

        • The only thing I’d have to say to every single one is that I hope you get crotch rot, your body plagued by enormous boils, and I hope you win millions in the lottery and then promptly get hit by a car before your divorce is final so all the money goes to your chump.

          Can’t understand why cheaters come here. No one has any sympathy for them and there is NEVER a reason that would justify what they are doing. They are lower than amoebas on the totem pole of creatures worth caring about and I wish them all nothing but ill will. Go away.

      • Do you find that they are mainly playing the “poor me” card and is looking for you to validate them? Like, “Poor me, I can’t help what I’m doing so 1) it’s not my fault, I’m just a victim of circumstance so I’m really a good person just misunderstood, and 2) therefore I deserve sympathy and forgiveness – no, I’m entitled to it.

        I feel this was the game my ex-wife tried to play.

        • I agree, Michael–pity is the magic wand of cheaters. They play the “poor me” card to (a) avoid consequences; (b) because they lack empathy and a theory of mind, they can only “see” what they themselves feel; and (c) impression management–if they can explain how it hurts them to hurt other people, ergo, they must be nice people themselves.

          It only takes one reading of George Simon to see the “woe is me” card for what it is.

          • I think they write and read because the information is useful to them. Cake applies to them too — OMG, you mean he/she LIED to me? The reason they don’t “choose” is because they want cake? OMG! Revelation!

            Where they make the mistake, however, is thinking that they’re chumps. (Unless they were dating and it’s early days and they had no idea the person was married because the cheater lied.) But the willing affair partners? I think they’re shocked by the cake eating idea.

            I also think some of them get off on chump pain or read here to see that it’s not so wonderful being married to Ms./Mr. Cheaterpants.

            • Dear CL, “… I also think some of them get off on chump pain…” rings 100% true – well said – as usual.
              The “drama” the cheater & AP have wrought, & to which they have dedicated their considerable lying energy towards feeding, is exactly what makes the cake-kibbles extra-tasty.

            • You read my mind CL. As soon as I read her letter I was thinking: Recon, she’s doing recon.

              • Oh, FOG, if it IS recon you’re doing, and you’re working hard on gathering all the data you’re getting here to create some sort of creepy spreadsheet to study for direction(s), kindly allow me to save a few extra steps:
                1. Pull your head out of your ass (and wherever else it has been).
                2. Come clean to everyone in this cluster you and the OM have created. I know this will be most unpleasant, but please, please take responsibility like an adult.
                3. START acting like a Homo Sapien with morals and character and STOP acting like a Bonobo that’s tucked into a case of Red Bull.

              • “STOP acting like a Bonobo that’s tucked into a case of Red Bull.”

                Boudica, that just made my day (especially knowing that Bonobos use sex as a social lubricant the way humans use, “How are you?”).

              • LOL, Boudica, can I assume you read the study where women got aroused watching Bonobo sex?

            • CL- the last OW that X lured in, she was totally shocked and blind-sided by cake. At the time, even in my state of betrayed agony, I thought it was hilarious (I do have a strange sense of humor!). She really, truly thought he would throw me out of his life, and she could slide in and have my house, and my sons, and he would just forget me. LOLOLOL – DIDN’T happen. He was trying to have her, and me, and he was smug and happy as can be! She ‘tried’ to kill herself with pills 4 times, and he kept eating lots of cake! Even the fake-O suicides didn’t change him. I was just lining my Ducks up…
              When I finally moved out and divorced him, she dumped him because “You’ll never get over FreeWoman”. AP’s are a special kind of sick.

            • “My” OW was one of these too. Cheater was her true love and soul mate right up until I informed her that he had continued to f* total strangers unprotected while f*ing her and lying to me about it. THEN suddenly he was a disordered sociopath and she was a sad little victim, and she had the audacity to say that she understood exactly how I felt. Poor, poor little sausage..

              • I love it when the whores find out they are lying to them/fucking other people, too. You are not special, dumass.

      • I wonder if your OW letters consist of a lot of them trying to explain how THEIR love is special and transcends our blanket policy that they all suck. Most of our cheaters probably would have admitted that cheaters generally suck but they were special.

  • Yawn….yawn…cliche guilt….yawn…blah, blah blah….see I have guilt she says, that makes me a good person, those three years of crotch shot selfies in the bathroom, the unprotected sex, the sexting, the texting, the bad poetry, the times you go home with another mans sperm inside you and you feel guilt for cheating on your chump husband.

    What I read between the lines is this cheater has hit a wall, the affair is going nowhere, her cheating Looover ain’t going anywhere, he’s not leaving his chump wife and she knows it. Oh yeah, the poor little children, such guilt taking away time for those little ones to fuck each other.

    Ain’t cheater love grand…it even has patronizing guilt….so deep, so Esther Perel, so new age.

    Gee, I hate shooting puppies, I feel such guilt for shooting puppies, but I can’t seem to stop reloading my gun.

  • It is easy to fall in love with someone when you have no responsibilities to share. Mr. Roarke and Tattoo are having a buffet with this one.

    • So true!
      Everything is perfectly in line to be “in wuv” when you don’t have to worry about homework, bills, broken shit, illness.
      I’ll just stay over here and have a real life, thanks.

  • Chump Lady, THANK YOU! As always, you are so right! The opening line, “…I am depressed and feel a lot of guilt,” and your statement, “…it’s not in the same universe,” is a truth that I appreciate greatly you expressing. I also appreciate your insight, support, and validation of the chump experience. It is heavy and real and you get it. You and CN continue to be lifesavers for me. I will admit, there are super small micro moments in which I feel sorry for the fuckwit AP having to experience the addiction, abuse, misogyny, and narcissism, but then I snap out of it and feel the reality: destruction of my family, she deserves what she “won.”

    As for FOG, OMG, not. one. ounce. of. sympathy. Three years and you reach out on an infidelity site? Have you ever felt guilty and depressed enough to stop hurting children? Do they not enter your thoughts? Apparently not in a way that would make you stop. I am trying to not dump on you what you cause but here is a slight view: emotional pain felt every day, intrusive thoughts about the AP I have difficulty controlling, financial distress, concern about my health, the difficulty of raising my child alone without adequate child support, and the complete and utter upheaval of our lives. And this is only a small view of what you call “falling in love” created.

    • Yes! Anyone who gets their jollies off of hurting innocent children, men, and women is a sicko. FOG, think about the role you have in the world. Your existence is making the world a worse place. Even if you stop the affair and inform both spouses, you’ll still have a lot of community service to do, to make up for the evil you’ve brought into the world. If you have any moral compass whatsoever, you’ll stop destroying innocent children and start being a decent human being. (And yes, kids whose parents have an affair often deal with psychological repercussions for years, even decades. So kind of you to do that to them, let alone to the other spouses!)

    • One of the most difficult things I have done in my life was to call my daughter, who was away at college, to tell her that the story of her father’s affair was going to be publicized (newspaper, TV, internet…everywhere). Minutes later, she was overwhelmed with all the sordid details of X’s affair. She was a real daddy’s girl, he was her hero. The pain for both of us was beyond words. Then, there was my then 12 year old, who didn’t really understand everything, except the unmerciful teasing she took at school, for the entire remainder of the school year. One son flunked out of college because he was too depressed to make it to class. He was on a full scholarship. Thankfully, he returned home and just graduated from college…a year late. My other son will not even consider a serious relationship.

      OW writes to CL that she understands the pain she is putting a family through. Bitch please, you cannot even begin to understand the pain they will experience when they learn the truth. An innocent family is going to be torn apart because you are a whore, who thinks only of your our selfish ass self. Your self-serving beating of the breast is total and complete bullshit. Look in the mirror and see what you have truly become – a liar, a cheat, a thief. For three years you have robbed a family of the stability they deserve and yet, you come to a site devoted to helping the victims of infidelity heal, asking for what? Advice? Sympathy? “Understanding?”I would say you should be ashamed of yourself, but it is clear to me you have no shame. It’s all about you, 24/7.

      • Violet, that’s awful. I had to do the same, call my daughter and tell her of her father’s long term affairs, double life, and our impending divorce, during her university finals no less. Everyone in our community was talking about it and I was afraid she would find out herself first. But I cannot imagine if it had also been on the news, on TV, newspapers, Internet. That just adds another level of horror to the unbelievable devastation.

        And to FOG, because my ex deceived all of us for so long, our 3 children have nothing to do with him. He has not seen his youngest son, now 16, in 4 years. Our oldest son, a lawyer, does not speak to him. Our daughter, a college graduate teaching in Europe and now 22, shuns him. She trusts no men and my boys never want to get married after what their father did. What you are doing is wrong, in fact I believe it is evil. You are destroying lives. Stop. Just please stop.

      • Violet

        Trust. It’s what relationships are based on. X and slunT enjoyed not only the cheating, they laughed at my pain as if I did something to deserve their cruelty. I asked myself why any person would want or love someone without basic consideration for another’s well being. Especially the mother of their children and the children themselves. My children idolized their father and now have lost all respect for him. Good guy image? That dissolved.

  • It pisses me off that cake eaters fret over their luxury of swimming in the pool of “Oh my, spouse loves me and AP loves me…whatever shall I do?” oh my such troubles. Wanna know what it is like to be a Chump?

    Look at the way the person you love and trusted is treating you (like dog shit) and realize “No one loves me”

    And the only way you can ever again have love is to do the hard thing and dump the cheater and hope for a better life in the future. Nope we don’t get to “pick” our favorite love…we can only get out. Or in my case find your cheater cold and stiff on the floor of your house after throwing a septic embolus and dying. (The fact that finding your cheater dead on the floor is probably easier than a terrible divorce is testament to how SUCKY this whole process is)

    • ‘Wanna know what it is like to be a Chump?

      Look at the way the person you love and trusted is treating you (like dog shit) and realize “No one loves me”’

      ^^^^^^This exactly.

    • Don’t worry, Unicorn no more, these fuckfest loser affairs have NOTHING to do with love. They are just available crotch. Easy free available crotch.

  • FOG…. You are NOT in love! Love doesnt have room for this bullshit. Do you understand what love is? Because if you loved anyone in this your little triangle… Including yourself …. You would not inflict this kind of pain nor tolerate being a side dish.
    You my dear have no clue what love is. You are a self centered interloper who is living half time in two lives. And some how you equate this shit as love. There is a very broken part of you that needs a filler for the holes that exist within you.
    I can tell you a lot… But I will spare you the tongue lashing… The one thing I will say is … You have no clue what love is. None.

    • Agree clip. I could never inflict this kind of pain on anyone least of all my own family. You are so right. Anyone who has ever truly loved would never inflict damage on another. Cheaters have no idea what love truly is. Entitlement, selfiness and gimme, gimme is all they know.

      • TheClip: yes! stop calling it love. She has no idea what love is and you are so right: love does not equal full awareness of pain caused yet forging onward anyway. Gaaawwwwddd! Wake up! Thanks for pointing that out.

        • “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.” Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope….no love here FOG.

            • That man does not belong to you FOG, he belongs to another woman. Go find your own. I think it’s THEFT, so add that to the list of wrongs.

    • Well, said, Clip…….VERY well said.

      And, FOG (by the way, ‘guilt’ is NOT what you are full of!), the Bible has the perfect description of what love is and what it is not at 1 Cor 13:4-7. It makes no difference whether you are a religious person or not; this passage is still the perfect description of what TRUE LOVE looks and acts like. Adultery, lies and deception do not fit this description! Some translations use the expression “does not behave indecently” in verse 5. Adultery is one of the MOST indecent things a person could ever do!

      So, don’t spew that drivel here!! A person who truly loves would not even allow such a thought to come into their hearts in the first place, (at the least, would slay the thought immediately!) much less carry on for 3 flippin’ years!

      FOG, you are a totally nut-job freakazoid! YOU brought this upon yourself! I have NO sympathy for your “pain”, “depression” or “frustration”! You brought it on yourself!

      Yes, you are indeed a selfish coward. Your life will continue to be wasted unless YOU do something about it. If you truly want to stop being a whore, find a counselor that deals with your type & get help. Just go away from here……

      Forge on, all…..ForgeOn!

    • Yeah, I’m sure FOG truly thinks she’s in love. But that’s where the need for therapy comes in: No well-adjusted, self-respecting, empathetic person would ever get anywhere close to love for someone willing to carry on an affair behind the backs of a spouse and children.

  • Oh poor you, you want to lessen the guilt and depression: STOP BEING A FUCKING WHORE! You and your assclown partner have fucked around on your spouses, exposed them to potential health risks (cause if he is willing to cheat with you there isn’t anything stopping him from fucking others on the side as well, same goes for you), destroyed 2 families and still it is all about you and your poor little feelings. Fuck off! Stop destroying families, tell your husband the truth, give him more than a fair settlement in the divorce, tell the OM’s wife the truth and take the damn consequences you deserve. If you are truly remorseful and not just an attention seeking, kibble starved whore then this is the only course of action that will even begin to put things right. You will never be able to fully put things right, what you did was the most horrible thing you could have done to your husband and to fucktard OM’S wife, slink away and don’t rear your ugly soul ever again.

      • “…and still it is all about you and your poor little feelings…” accubonded, YES! Poor little FOG. What a classic narcissistt!!!

    • Man I love reading your responses! I considered replying to the OW with a simple F*** OFF! I don’t have any sympathy for cheaters. Just a bunch of self-centered aholes. My stbxw is going crazy since I totally cut her off. She occasionally texts me with some type of poor me story. I make sure to not respond to her. These people don’t even deserve a response. However, I do love when CL gets out the 2×4 and lets them have it.

      • That is the toned down appropriate for TV version of what I would like to say, but maybe I would add something about their genitals falling off after a lengthy battle with flesh eating bacteria

        • accubonded – you’re a trip! Loved your comment, and it was well-deserved. How do we know without a doubt that these cheating f-tards have NO clue what true love is? It’s that so many of them actually spend time writing in to CL looking for more freaking kibbles! There are no sympathetic shoulders or ears here, FOG.

          You made daily, active, and personal choices for more than 1,000 days to destroy multiple innocent childrens’ home lives, and some of them are of your own blood. That’s the absolute WORST! That you actually have looked into those trusting eyes and actively LIED to them just so you could sneak off with your MARRIED fuckbuddy. Wow. AND, you looked into the eyes of a trusting spouse to whom you made vows of honesty and loyalty to, and happily drove off to go screw another married boy.

          Oh, FOG, you absolutely do need help and direction, but from an MD in psychiatry and who specializes in narcissism and personality disorders, and who is someone won’t allow you to feel sorry for YOURSELF. You’re an addict; just an average addict of dopamine, adrenaline, and serotonin. I hope your little druggie fixes for the last 3 years was worth multiple childrens’ self-worth, understanding of morality, and now screwed-up version of what “love” actually is.

          Oh wait. But YOU’RE depressed. Wow.

    • “cause if he is willing to cheat with you there isn’t anything stopping him from fucking others on the side as well, same goes for you”. Oh Accubonded, this is so true. FOG really does think she’s special. She’s cheating with a cheater, but he doesn’t cheat on her! Also, she demonstrates her high opinion of herself by writing in to Chump Lady, and asking what to do about her own (unique) situation. It must never have occurred to her that she IS the same as other cheaters, or she would have found her answer in the thousands of posts previous to hers.

      • The ow is so full of herself he would never cheat on her or lie. He has and does. Maybe I should send the pictures of the seven bondage bitches I found to her. All while he was living with her.

  • FOG, if you actually feel some sort of guilt, you have a shot at being a decent human being at some point. I want to tell you how his wife and children feel. And how your AP doesn’t have the ability to feel.

    His wife doesn’t get what’s going on with her husband. No matter what she does it’s not quite good enough. She notices his emotional distance, especially from the children, and cannot understand how he can be so detached from those innocent little souls who want nothing more than daddy’s attention. And she doesn’t know how to fix it. He has become dismissive, angry, and silent. She can’t figure out where the love of her life, the man who promised his heart to her, went. If she didn’t know any better, she’d think he was having an affair. But she knows he would NEVER do such a low, disgusting thing to her and the children. His character wouldn’t allow it. He would never annihilate her heart that way. He would never rip his family to shreds. He’s too good of a man to do that. And what’s more, he would never do that to himself. He would never be anything like a low, common cheater. He thinks people who cheat are disgusting. He has said so many times. She thinks she’ll have to figure out a way to bring him back into the fold while raising children, working full time, keeping family and friends a part of their lives and running the household. She’ll just have to spread herself a little more thin to fix what’s going on with Hubby.

    Her husband, the “man” YOU love, tells himself that he deserves to have what he wants. It doesn’t matter who he’s walking on – including his wife, children, your husband and you – all that matters is that he feels empty and needs someone else to fill that gaping hole. He knows he’s a very special person and the rules don’t apply to him. You give him attention, you make him feel good about himself, you are a secret that he gets to punish his wife with. He punishes her for knowing him too well. For the fact that she’s seen through the cracks in his armor, that he can’t pretend to be perfect to her anymore. The fact that she loves him warts and all doesn’t make him love her more – it makes her the enemy. And after 3 years of betrayal with you, she’s sort of given up the chase. She’s not even running after him anymore! He doesn’t look at the fact that she’s just an afterthought to him, that he’s neglectful of her and the children, he expects her to fight for him in a war that she’s not even aware of. But he also knows that when this affair comes to light, he will leave you in the dust. Because he will blame you for ruining his life. He will blame it all in you, just as he blamed the affair on her. You are a mirror to him. You tell him he’s a great guy and he likes that. Because he has no sense of self and needs someone to tell him who he is. Just remember: when the jig is up, your mirror will tell him that he is a scumbag cheater. That will not sit well with him and you will become the enemy.

          • @ Uneffingbelievable

            This post is spot on! “…he expects her to fight for him in a war that she’s not even aware of…”

            That was me. I knew something was wrong, but I didn’t suspect cheating. After all, he abhorred such behaviour. He was a family man. He wasn’t interested in sex/had a low sex drive. That was our biggest problem. He felt inadequate. Had performance anxiety. He was afraid that I would leave him because of the lack of intimacy. He wept. I reassured him. Thing is, he was fucking around on me the entire time. Oh well.

            OW: Sigh. Of all the forums you chose THIS one for advice? Your actions, supported by your AP’s have destroyed families. Have an honest conversation with your husband and just leave. Give him a chance to find love.

      • Yes, just wow. How did you see inside his head like that? Spookily accurate….

    • Wow Uneffing – you just described my marriage to my ‘Anthony Weiner’ to a T!

    • “You are a secret he gets to punish his wife with..” Wow! That is a powerfully true but painful statement. The fact is OW, despite your affair lasting three years doesn’t mean you know him. “You are a mirror.” You project back what he projects on to you i.e. bullshit.

      Even if he leaves his family for you,neither of you will be happy. Affairs start because people want distractions from being who they truly are. Regardless, you will reap what you sow.

    • Wow! Uneffingbelievable, you just summed up my life with my ex in the dozen years before I found out the truth. He was an eagle scout: the epitome of character. He systematically destroyed me by silence and frowns. I was the unworthy one. I wanted to just die. For years. It was horrendous. Then I began uncovering the truth of the deceptions, and while this led to a nervous breakdown, and pain beyond imaginable, I was finally able to see what I was married to, what I was responsible for, and what I deserved and needed to do going forward. THAT was the start of healing.
      All those OW who were stroking his perpetually starved ego, were tools serving a purpose. So was I. I got the hell out.

      • Uneffingbelievable and Crimson Comet, oh wow! You have written my experience. 36 years married to this. I am also coming to reality and slowly toward healing. You are all awesome here. I am so thankful to have found all of you, and wish I had found you much earlier in this horrid but freeing process.

    • You’re right on, but unfortunately FOG will never get it. FOG doesn’t want to get it. “Getting it” isn’t fun; it’s work. Cheaters suck. FOG is no exception.

    • Wow that really resonated with me. Especially that part about being punished for seeing the cracks in his armor. That’s something that I can really relate with. Thank you for your post.

      • Oh, I so wanted to jump on the “fuck off” bandwagon, but thought that maybe FOG was feeling a bit guilty and was open to actually looking at the destruction she was causing. And maybe, just maybe, it will move her to do right by her husband and AP’s wife and kids. I sure hope so – they’ve suffered enough.

        • UEB – so eloquent & insightful. Especially the ‘cheater punishing their spouse with a secret’ comment!

        • uneffing, this was a copy and carry response!

          My chest cracked when I read, “She knew he would never do such a low, disgusting thing.” The jig is probably already up. Thanks!

          • Yes, and by the way, UEB, that was an awesome post!

            Never assume the faithful spouse knows of the affair. We’re chumps. We believe our cheaters when they tell us that they think that affairs are for cheating assholes.

            It’s only later on that we realize that they’re talking about themselves.

      • Very good post, I always thought that I had to do all the shit jobs, hard work in our lives and my STBXH gave the rewards pleasure to someone else. So yes, I felt punished. It’s the worst pain I’ve ever experienced in my life.

        • Kate, love what you said! STBXH gave the rewards pleasure to someone else! Hugs, may your pain today give you strength!

        • Agreed – worse than a death. I’m so afraid that this will scar me for life. I can’t let him steal my innocence and innate belief in the goodness of humanity. I won’t let him take that from me as well.

    • Uneffingbelieveable – that was totally awesome. So much so I was tempted to copy/paste it to ‘The Great I Am’ (nah, I’m not gonna – pearl before swine). If FOG takes only one post away from all of these responses – let it be this one. Well done you x

    • Yep. Nail on the head. The part about working harder to bring him into the fold resonated with me. I was already homeschooling, working extra hours, laundry, bills, cooking every night, making sure things were happening in the bedroom. I was trying to be a better wife. Little did i know i was doing a pick me dance….

      FOG, you are despicable. You KNEW he had kids and fucked him. You ruined those children’s family. YOU took their father. You should have felt shame at the THOUGHT of having the affair.

      My ex’s whore knew he had a kid. Met him too. Still did what she did. She has no remorse. I doubt you do either. Not 3 years later. Nope. You’re bored. You need attention. Well, fuck you.

  • The OW moved across country to my town a few months ago to live with my very STBX. I’ve only sighted her once — in our church where he’s got her singing next to him in the choir. I keep rehearsing in my mind what I am going to say to her when eventually we do cross paths. Specifically, I want to know “why she –who was cheated on by her husband of 30 years — thought it a good idea to keep seeing my husband when I called her and told her I loved him and when my daughter wrote to her and told her to back off? 3 years ago she told X she felt like the OW. I’m sure he had to do some fancy footwork to tell her our marriage was over then. However, it’s taken 3 years to get us to a signed divorce agreement. What would a rational person think if they were told a divorce was imminent but it’s taken 3 years to get to that point? Wouldn’t you start to think that maybe you were being lied to and concerned you were helping to destroy a family? I know I would. If I’d been in her shoes and was approached by an old flame, I’d say come back only with your divorce agreement signed so I can see it.

    It takes very selfish person to destroy someone else’s family. And I just don’t understand — are you stupid, ignorant or you just so starved for affection that you can’t see straight? There’s no excuse and I hope karma is right behind you!

    • Mom9193–do NOT confront the OW. Ignore her with the frostiest visage imaginable (better yet, look right past or through her). You can only hope for one of 2 things out of the encounter: (a) to make her see the error of her ways and how much pain she has caused you and your children. [loud buzzer] This will not work. First, you already tried that with the phone call & letter from your daughter. Selfish, entitled jerks do not “see” that they are wrong and then feel guilt or remorse, nor do they rectify their ways. The fact that she even sets foot in a church (and the choir!) without fearing lightning bolts from on high is evidene of this.

      (b) you think you will feel better for telling her off. You might, but her reaction may actually make you feel worse. I personally do think that a good verbal lashing of cheaters can feel pretty good. But it has to be in a one-sided way where you either won’t get a response back or where you can delete their response, unread. If those criteria don’t apply, it is likely to make you feel even worse. Furthermore, responding to these cretins at all gives them attention, so the catharsis from telling them off has to be MUCH greater than tipping your hand that you still give a shit about them. [Example–after my X emailed me to berate me from looking up his info after the Ashley Madison hack, I took the opportunity to let him know that I KNEW all the additional sordid details of his serial cheating (which had not emerged until after the divorce), but I threw in an “I’m amused by….” to let him know I didn’t really give a damn anymore. To his pity play, I basically responded that actions have consequences. Might it have been some kibbles to him? Sure, but I felt immensely better knowing that I had pulled off his mask entirely, and I kept a “just the facts, ma’am” attitude about it so that he knew he was dead to me.

      I suspect you are still too upset to pull off a “just the facts, ma’am” message, especially if the facts are already known to all, and I believe you’re hoping for a shred of conscience from OW. Ain’t gonna happen, and you’ll probably feel even worse after the encounter. Your best message is icy contempt.

      • I agree with this advice. Don’t confront the OW.

        The lesson for all chumps is, no matter how much we despise the affair partner, the problem is the cheater you married. These dimwits would not be in our lives if the cheater didn’t invite them there. I’m not absolving affair partners of their suckitude, they suck — but they would suck all on their own, away from you, if your cheater kept it in his pants.

        The OW was dim and available, that’s it. Don’t give either her or your cheater your mental real estate. They aren’t worth it. Don’t compete, don’t compare, don’t try to enlighten, just get on with your own life.

        • “Get on with your Life” best advice ever, they took up enough time already we can’t get back, don’t bother giving them anymore. We all only have so much time on this rock, lets get rid of those that ruin our joy on it. They can fuck off, it’s that simple.

        • Get on with your best life. Be biblical in your karmatic vengeance of happiness. Go skydiving, learn to make chocolate, look sassy, be there for the people you love. Don’t have anyone? FIND SOME. Fill your cup up with joy. Find joy. Find joy. I am so stuck on this being how I will not just survive but also pour ashes in the mouth of my dumbass husband (Mr.Vain). I am going to be Fucking Happy dammit. He can eat THAT shit sandwich.

    • I love these hypocritical Jesus Cheaters! If they really believed in God their overwhelming guilt wouldn’t allow them to desecrate the church with their presence. But I guess if they really believed in God, they never would have cheated in the first place. Sounds like they both need a giant red “A” painted on the choir robes!

      • Uneffing – God forgives us our sins – that’s how these people manage to desecrate churches with their presence – God has forgiven them. If their ‘sin’ is ongoing – well y’know Christ died for our sins, so hey – life’s hard, we’re all sinners, it’s all good. God understands. If I go into that box over there and I say the number of ‘hail mary’s’ the priest tells me to say, I can carry on being a cheater tomorrow – just rinse and repeat. Hey, and if I’m not Catholic I don’t even have to tell the priest or recite the penance. Yay for me! God’ll give me a pass – cos he loves me! I’m entitled to his love and I am special – the Bible tells me so!

        • Think I puked in my mouth a little, Jayne! I’m an atheist, but I wonder how their Jesus feels about being their “Get-Out-of-Jail-Free” card!?! Pious, self-righteous assholes!

        • But after we repent, Jesus clearly said, “Now go and sin no more”. So they have to really mean it and change their ways to be forgiven. Also go back to the marriages and beg for forgiveness, which the spouse has a choice to stay or not.

          • Not dissing christianity (or any other religious teachings on morality – for that matter) Kate50. It’s just how these cheaters manage to turn up in the church choir – it’s what they tell themselves to make it all good in their own heads!

          • Repent? Go and sin no more? Beg for forgiveness? That only applies to those who actually admit they have wronged their family. Then there are those, which I am all too famiar with, who has no remorse, has not sinned, and will never beg for forgiveness becase you see – he has done NOTHING wrong. If only I had not been such a terrible wife.

            • Agreed! Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” Cheaters are not forgiven without a truly repentant heart. My stbx is a Jesus Cheater, cheated with his Sunday School teaching partner. Isn’t that sweet? I reported them to the church immediately. The church kicked them out of all teaching and leadership positions and said they can’t be anywhere near each other when at church. People like this are NOT Christians. Real Christians are not perfect but work daily on living by Christ’s word and making amends when they hurt someone.

      • Thanks to all of you for responding! I hereby promise I will not say a word to her and I like Tempest’s “stare right through her” approach. The church leadership all knows what he’s done and the thought of them wearing scarlet “A”‘s on the their choir robes will make me laugh every time I see them!

        I was thinking of going back into therapy, but CN has just saved me a lot of money!

        You guys are the best!

        • I agree with all the above, any remarks or confrontation is eaten up by the disordered cheaters. They love it and it binds them closer, for a bit anyway.

      • Kate50, I have a gallon of red paint in my garage….you’re more than welcome to it!

  • best response ever to the “this wasn’t intensional” bs..
    or the “I can’t help it ~ I’m in love” bs the OW came up with so she could look in the mirror.

    Yes, you intentionally did what YOU wanted despite the pain it would surely cause the chump & 3 children…

    and yes, YOU won the pick me dance OW.

    So take YOUR crappy prize & exit stage left

    • Kate–What?? You mean other people don’t “accidentally” flirt, text, and strip off their knickers arrange for trysts with people they’ve recently met? And ending up in a hotel room with said person wasn’t just serendipitous chance? Or, once in the hotel room, give blow jobs because the man’s belt accidentally became unfastened, and his pants fell around his ankles? Whoa. This is a real paradigm shift.

    • Kate, yup…… like my cheating boy skank said, “It just happened.” Yep, you trip and your penis just happened to fall into her vagina! Oh, Honey, that must have been so scary for you….let me help you up….NOT!!!!!!!

  • Well CN, at least she didn’t include the long laundry list of the wife’s faults (according to the husband) or her husband’s faults (which of course led her to do this for 3 years.)
    You know “his wife is abusive, she doesn’t care about him, she’s really let herself go , she spends all of his money” etc.. Maybe she really was expecting some sympathy who knows ? After all, they’re all so selfish Cheaters make me sick !

  • Nothing more ridiculous than listening to a piece of shit whine about how hurt she is for being a truly terrible person. Take Chump Lady’s advice & tell your husband & leave. Tell your douchebag’s wife. Btw, you aren’t in love, but at least this will allow your husband a chance to be with a good person, which you are not.

    You sound bey similar to my ex’s girlfriend. She was one of so many OW, 5 at the time. She was unaware. Thinks he left me for her. I found out, left him. He begged me to take him back. He cheats on her, couldn’t happen to a better woman. They split up 2 families, but I’m thankful for her. I would still be stuck with a shitty cheater. She lived next door to a friend of mine who told me.

    Be prepared to be hated. Know that you deserve it. Know that your pain is a drop in the bucket to what you are doing to the innocent. Get therapy & maybe, though doubtful, you can become a decent person. Because you aren’t. You suck. Once you can finally admit that, maybe you’ll have a chance.

  • FOG,

    Give your husband whatever he wants in the divorce settlement.

    Then come back here and report to CL & CN about it. Then, the world can believe that you truly feel remorse, and that you have – MOST importantly – done what is right to try to make some form of amends for your terrible and destructive choices.

    Until then, GFY.

    • Yep this. Sorry is as sorry does. Sorry? You can apologize for those three years of gaslighting and fucking around with a fair divorce settlement and not one bit of blameshifting. I think that would do a lot to alleviate the guilt.

    • Yep, my ex and his married OW were racked with guilt. Until, of course, it came time to mitigate their actions. Then the guilt magically transmogrified into blame, and then – ta da! – they get to pat themselves on the back for feeling guilt while avoiding living the consequences of their guilt. They only embrace the guilt to the extent that it makes them feel and appear human. It’s guilt cake.

      • Yeah, my stbx once referred mournfully about the “mess” of his and his AP’s jointly bailing on their marriages after knowing each other for a couple months. Such hardship they endure!

    • FOG,
      I think that the best you can do now is end your affair, tell your affair partner, “I was wrong to conduct an affair,” and tell your husband, “I had a three-year long affair. I’m sorry. I will give you whatever you want (meaning you offer to give him whatever he wants in a divorce settlement or any other arrangement he chooses once he hears the news),” without blaming and without excuses. If your affair partner’s wife talks to you, don’t lie to her or blame her for the affair. If she asks you if you had an affair with her husband tell her, “Yes. I apologize. I was wrong to do this.” Finally, don’t lie to your kids. There is no easy way to disclose, so don’t search for one.

      • I think Fog came here looking foe permission to tell AP’s wife. Cold and calculated.

  • Dear FOG,

    Despite your terrible situation and your anxiety, you are a fucking loser. A fucking MARRIED loser fucking another MARRIED loser.

    I am certain your THREE YEAR affair high and your contemplations of leaving your soul mate have not torn or weathered a great big giant hole in rotting weave of your “character”. You suck. You know what’s worse than you, the married asshat you are fucking who has children. He has managed not only to throw his spouse under the bus (like you have done to yours), he has also thrown his own kids under it too. AND YOU HELPED!

    Since you enjoyed the perks of being Wife to your loser AP, I feel it is also just you assume some financial responsibility of destroying these children’s family structure. It’s called Criminal Conversation or even better- Alienation of Affection in legalese. I truly hope the chump wife goes after your ass in court as well as eviserating the selfish deceitful asshat she’s married to. Your husband owes you NOTHING. So fuck you and fuck off.

    A big badass chump from hell

  • I shall let my handle speak for itself today. No sense trying to reason or waste my time on another selfish cheater!

  • A lot of OW/OM must lurk here.
    Trying to get a window into human emotion, I guess?

    Ugh, we hate you. Go away.

  • FOG, I’m calling BS. You’re in denial. You want to believe that you have “twu wuv” with your affair partner, but your plans of starting a new life together are stagnating. He won’t leave his wife, even after three years. It’s hurting YOU, so that’s why you want to break it off with him – not because it’s “the right thing to do.” You love your AP, but the “pick-me-dance” is getting to you, it’s becoming painful.

    Admit this.

    It sucks being the OW when he won’t leave his wife, and you love him.

    So, what to do? Break it off with him. Come clean to your husband, and let the chips fall where they may. Get counseling. Work to repair your marriage, or let it go, but start being honest with yourself and those around you. Cause karma is a bitch.

    • Seriously. All this whore wants is permission to tell.

      ALWAYS tell. Better late than never. Permission granted, Whore!

      • Her motives are selfish. She didn’t fuck up. She fucked her family over and will take her loyal spouse to the cleaners. That’s as close as they get to soul cleansing.

  • Remorse is not enough. You seem to have genuine feelings. Inaction makes me feel nothing for you. There’s no getting out of this without burned bridges. To repair your character you have to start over. Own that you destroyed two marriages and multiple lives, stop lying. Tell your friends and get counselling and stop being a terrible person.

  • Please expose the affair to your spouse, and your fuck buddy’s spouse, Other Woman, so everyone can move on to someone decent. Maybe you and fuck buddy can get married and spawn. You certainly deserve each other.

  • APP: Affair Partner Problems. So selfish. So not worthy of sympathy. It causes you occasional pangs of concern that you continue to destroy WHOLE FAMILIES? Jeez, Louise. Gimme a break.

    FOG, iif there is a good person inside you trying to get out, she is buried awfully deep. Like CL said, come clean with everyone involved, get into therapy (several times a week), and stay out of relationships until you can tell the difference between love and using people (several years at least).

  • FOG,

    Do you ever watch 20/20 or Dateline? People die over this shit! That’s how bad it is.

    What makes you think OM’s wife won’t set your house on fire with you in it? What’s that you say? You didn’t think you’d get caught.

    Your OM weighed the risk of your husband finding out and thinks he can kick your husbands ass or kill him if it comes down to it. That’s where the danger is. That is the place you put your husband. Your husband knows this from common sence and OM will quickly become an open and hostile enemy.

    I hope your husband is a warrior and removes that smug look off OM’s face.

    • I think this all the time. How delusional or uncaring do you have to be to not understand how dangerous this stuff is? Murder, suicide, getting beat up, people going off the rails and hurting their children-it happens. It’s certainly happened throughout history and inspired a lot of literature and music. I lived in fear that some crazy craigslist hookup or jealous boyfriend or husband was going to show up at our door. Or a jealous affair partner would try to get revenge through me an the kids. It’s such risky behavior, even if there’s only one affair going on. You can’t predict how another person is going to respond to that kind of betrayal. WHY???

      • DoneNow – me too… I remember getting a stabbing feeling in my stomach every time I saw women I didn’t know in the street near my house for at least 6 months after D-day, worried that one of his disgusting whores (who were all in “love” with him apparently) would attack me or my kids as revenge for being dumped. Why don’t these cheaters even consider these most terrifying consequences to their fucked up behaviour? Did none of them see Fatal Attraction? Rabbit stew anyone?

        • Me, too, ChumpfromF–I had the most debilitating panic attack/breakdown of my life after going to a political candidate forum and seeing a pretty young woman who would have been about the same age as my then-H’s affair partner. I barely got out of the forum & back home before the shaking, sobbing, and nausea started. My 13-year old daughter had to help me because I was paralyzed with pain. For about 6 months after that, I would look at students at the campus now-X and I share, and would think, “he’d probably try to f*ck her. and her…” Very painful stuff.

          • Aargh Tempest, that’s horrible – and so totally understandable. I know you’re as near as dammit to Meh about Hannibal now – but it’s those little snide gifts they gave us – so frigging hard to explain. Being chumped doesn’t exist in a vacuum.

            • Thanks, Jayne. That episode was only weeks after D-day; much better now (though those thoughts still pop into my head). You’re right, though–cheaters are the gift that keeps on giving, kind of the way chicken pox becomes shingles.

        • ChumpinFrance….I hear what you are saying. When I voiced my concerns about the OW, coming to the door, causing drama, his response was “I won’t allow that.” Right!!!!… you f****** someone else outside our 16 year relationship wouldn’t be allowed. Ohhhh, I feel so safe now! (eye roll)

  • Dear FOG. We don’t give a rat’s ass about your guilt.

    Tell your husband and tell your OM’s wife the truth. Face the consequences like an adult.

    Your pain, as CL says, cannot compare with the chump’s pain.

    • And make no mistake. Your husband will mourn for 6 months or so and then find a wife who’s 100 times better than you.

      And ditto for your OM.

      Of course, even if he were free you know he wouldn’t date you right? You’re good enough for a side piece but I guarantee he will be out there exploring other options if he were actually divorced.

      • KellyP, truth!! My Ex and I divorced because was SO in love with his OW and wanted to marry her! Did he? Hell no! He left her in the dust in less than three months and told everyone he was NEVER going to marry her! Her Ex divorced her one year earlier and he remarried a very nice woman. So, two marriages, destroyed! Two left behind spouses, free to live a better life! Two cheating assholes, left with absolutely nothing! Seems fair to me!

        • I like that ending actually, I told my X that he’ll have to lie his face off to get any decent woman to be with him in the future because no one decent will want a cheating asshole after a 4 year affair in my case. So that’s a good way to start a new relationship hey? Based on lies out of the gate. He’ll have a hard time concealing what he did to because all 3 of our grown kids know about the affair and that being the reason I left him. His AP dumped him btw after her husband found out and beat her within an inch of her life btw. All sick stuff.

          • Good luck with that Kat50-look at all these disordered females out there fucking married men-there will be plenty who don’t give a rats ass what he did to you- cuz you know they are SPECIAL

  • The thing I resented the most when I found out about my ex’s cheating was that he had strung me along for years on end…Lies and deception are The Worst kind of betrayal. What my ex did (and what you are doing) is plain and simply INHUMANE and UNFAIR. The pain of hearing the truth would have been far less painful and less damaging than what living a lie did to me. I feel as though I wasted many years of my life loving someone who had absolutely no regard for my well-being. My ex was selfish and immature. You are stealing life from your husband.

    There’s no getting around the hurt at this point. It has gone on too long. Get over your guilt and childish selfishness — be an adult, get a divorce. Tell the truth without blaming your husband and accept the consequences. Your husband deserves happiness in his future. Your AP’s wife deserves to know the truth as well. Tell her, too.

    • This, FOG, listen to Over and Out.
      My ex cheated 5 yrs into our marriage, 10 yrs into our relationship: i confronted, he lied to me, to the MC, I was gaslighted into believing I was paranoid.
      THIRTEEN YEARS later he cheats again (with at least on EA, possible PA in between… that I know of….).
      He had his chance to come clean, and was too cowardly. He risked my life and daughters since I did not get tested for STDs when I should have).

      Tell you husband: I do not love you. I cheated. We will divorce. You deserve better. It is not your fault.

  • LW, do you realize the hundreds of thousands of little decisions you have made that show your true character?
    * All the times you could have spoken honestly with your husband about something in the relationship that wasn’t working for you. How many times/decisions was that?
    * All the times you chose not to spend any effort on the marriage. How many times/decisions was that?
    * All the times you saw the tiniest piece of cake and choose to swallow it instead of considering what you already had. How many times/decisions was that?
    * All the times you spent in the presence of your husband and chose to deceive. How many times/decisions was that?
    * All the times you actually said words that were a lie. How many times/decisions was that?* All the times you said nothing? How many times/decisions was that?
    * All the moments you chose to spend elsewhere breaking your commitment. How many times/decisions was that?
    * All the times you chose to lie to yourself. How many times/decisions was that?
    * All the times you chose to ‘feel guilty’ but do it anyway. How many times/decisions was that?

    I’m sure others can add so much more to that list but you didn’t just accidentally trip and fall onto his magical unicorn of love, you made thousands and thousands of choices every day, every hour, every minute, which completely disrespected your husband, your marriage, all involved children, etc. and showed your true character. Everyone has questionable thoughts and feelings (like I want to backhand you with a coffee mug) but it is our actions that define us in the world (instead I write this message). See how that works.

    • “Everyone has questionable thoughts and feelings (like I want to backhand you with a coffee mug) but it is our actions that define us in the world (instead I write this message). See how that works.”

      Ta dah! And there it is in a nutshell…

      AliceUnderground, you rock!

    • Alice, your comment made me so emotional! I feel that this is exactly what my ex did, and the decisions he made, over 14 years, even when he wasn’t cheating, were so hurtful and uncaring!

      He doesn’t understand why our kids still want very little to do with him, despite his apologizing to them and saying how much he’s changed. It’s because he DID spend 14 years making uncaring and selfish decisions, up to and including cheating, ‘reconciling’ (I was doing the reconciling, he enjoyed it a lot!) and then cheating again, splitting up my kids’ family, then essentially giving up any real parenting, except the financial part.

      The fact that ONCE HE LOST THEM, he ‘realized’ that what he was doing was wrong and apologized and ‘changed’ doesn’t work. They see that he didn’t care the least bit about them, until it hurt HIM (and even after recognizing that he’d hurt them and driven them away, it was all about him and how much he has suffered by losing them). And they see that, apart from treating them better, he hasn’t changed a bit (still blameshifting, still rude to people in service jobs, still unkind and disregarding of other’s feelings, still iying).

      He made a thousand, a million small and big decisions that not only disregarded fairness in our relationship, and my feelings, but, far far worse to me, truly unbelievable, he did the same for his children.

      • OH KarenE, that is so awful and must be terribly painful. It still makes me queasy to think of it.
        Jedi hugs to you.

  • Dearest special snowflake FOG, I highly suspect that your “guilt” has finally kicked in after realizing your shining OM has been using you as a cum dumpster and has absolutely no intention of leaving his unsuspecting wife and kids! You now realize he is only after what is below your navel and above your kneecaps! You feel stupid for being nothing more than a human masturbater for him, a sex toy! And now you want to hide like the common whore you are! Kind of sucks to realize your fantasy was all made up in your own mind, doesn’t it? It’s embarrassing to realize you wiggled out of your panties regularly for a guy who just wanted an available, easy piece of ass and now you must admit it to yourself, but you will be exposed for the self deluded POS you are to your faithful spouse, kids and friends! Serves you right! I’ve NO sympathy for you, but my advice is to come clean, own your poor choices and stupidity and take your lumps! And don’t worry about being alone, there are scores of scum who will “love” you and hit it and quit it! You devalued yourself so live with it!

    • Thats exactly what I was thinking. Three years…the limerence was probably fading. He has not left the pesky wife and kids yet ( damn! He promised!) and ow is now realizing this is not turning out the way she had planned. She does not give two shits about the chumps. Please. If she did, then she would not be doing this for THREE YEARS.

    • Whores are cheaper than prostitutes. I hope that’s the crowning jewel she remembers in her OW Crown.

      • bang on insistonhonesty. why buy a cow if you can get a low self esteem skank to do it free for “twu luv”?

    • Roberta, WOW….OW devalued herself….so very true! Thank you for the eye opener!

  • Spot on, CL. ‘not even in the same universe’

    Seriously, OW, you have no compassion and are psycho.

    In other cultures OW would be stoned to death. Sometimes I think they have it right.

    How OW gave herself permission to put her needs above her husbands, AP family is beyond me. Takes an extremely selfish, self serving ass hat to do that – FOR 3 YEARS. Evil. Just simply Evil.

  • I’ll never understand why OW think they are so special? It’s not like you’re with these men when you have the flu, or the kids have been up all night puking, or you just want to wear your sweatpants and fuzzy slippers to bed. Your with these men in your new panties, your painted lips and fully into them, because there are no interruptions from the kids or your mother in law. Get a grip! Your just another female on the prowl. Trying to convince him that the 2 of u have some kind of giant obstical that the universe keeps you apart from your unrealistic Tru Luv. Get a grip FOG. In the real dating world, you would have other perfect panties after your man. Your up against a precious wife of 2 kids with a cheating husband, no contest there. Slap yourself across the face and wake up!

  • Bitch please. You’re not contemplating leaving your husband because you don’t want to hurt him anymore. I’d wager you’ve been too chicken-shit to leave him because the AP isn’t lined up yet, and it’s doubtful he ever will be. You’ve been fucking him for 3 years; It’s a fantastic arrangement for him!

    And again, who the fuck has an affair for THREE YEARS!?! I know I’ve heard of them lasting longer than this, but when you think of how much energy it takes to deceive someone else for this long . . . damn. If you are capable of living a double life for this long, that shows me the kind of person you really are.

    I know, it’s all so hard. Poor you. But you know what’s really hard? Knowing there’s selfish fucks out there like you, that are so starved for kibbles, they even post to an infidelity site, specifically for chumps, looking for sympathy. Pathetic.

    I hope your husband finds out, divorces you, and takes everything. And then you and AP can be together! Eventually, get to experience the joy of being cheated on first hand.

    Fuck off.

  • This letter makes me sick. Her husband, the one she made promises to, has been cheated out of her love (that she proclaims for some OM), her attention, the passion and spark and smiles-when-she-sees-him. TIME is going to this man that belongs to her married spouse and to her family.

    Meanwhile her poor betrayed H is wondering WTF is going on .. and getting lied to so that he will never know. Yeah you know something is off but you trust the person you married.

    You trust and someone cheating on you is betraying that trust.

    Three years, yeah she has denied him a real marriage for three full years and doesn’t want to face the consequences. She doesn’t care about how much her husband is hurting as much as she cares about what’s easiest for her, which is avoiding doing the right thing.

    And just breaking it off with this AP? Ok, let’s say she gets herself together enough to do that. She already has given herself entitlement to keep secrets, to lie, to be dishonest and inauthentic.

    Even if she doesn’t cheat again, there marriage has been undermined and her spouse will never, ever know why unless she tells him, and then if she can’t do that she’ll resent how he ‘makes her’ feel guilty about .. her liying and betraying his trust. Meanwhile he has three years of disconnect from her and no reconnection is actually possible as long as the cheating is a secret, ongoing or not.

  • What I take away from this is typical narcissistic, persona-perpetuating bullshit from this OW. Its the “Im a special damaged broken snowflake” bit. The “I just cant take anyones advise”….”Why oh why do I do this to myself” narrative.

    These OW are constantly searching for identities and justification. They WANT to be viewed as reckless, damaged, broken, dangerous, bad decision makers, depressed people — its paints them as SOMETHING other than “just your average run of the mill saggy assed middle class boring lady/whore”

    the KNOW its bad…they KNOW what they need to do…the KNOW they are hurting their wondering “too good for them” husband. And yet they are just too darned broken and reckless and addicted to stop.

    These are the same people that have pages and pages of Pinterest and INstgram posts about how they are so deep, so sp[ecial and the world just doesn’t understand their special brand of snowflake.

    Great response Chump Lady. Poeple who talk about “WANTING” to do whats right…and “TRYING” to do whats right make me sick. You arent doing it b/c you dont want to……for totally selfish reasons and nothing else.


    • Well stated… she had me at “allowed myself to fall in love with him.” Yes, those magical external forces that MAKE an OW and a cheater cheat.

  • The OW in my case was absolutely giddy about blowing up my marriage and screwing my husband. It was in my face all the way. She didn’t give a rat’s ass who she hurt in the process. She’s such a Special Snowflake. May she get everything she deserves.

  • My Ex-Wife carried on an affair for over two years that I’m aware of: The OM her affair partner, single and her co-worker. Divorced now for 8 months. I knew people at the court house and got the D done in under 4 weeks, including mediation. The real pain is financially and to my Kids – The impact will affect my two teenage girls for years to come. Both already have issue in school- I remain calm an supportive for them.

    Looking back, I realize that every word was a lie for those years. It was all pretend: She was acting for me: She made me feel devalued, and worthless she projected her feelings on me.

    It’s taken therapy, friends, and CL/CN network for me to feel somewhat human again- worthy of my children.

    The writer of the letter doesn’t realize it, but the damage is done. How it unravels is anybody’s guess.

    Start with the TRUTH, or do it in a MC office. Your affair partner is using you. You’ll come to realize it much later. If you still think of him your marriage is over anyway.

  • You know what happens when two special little married whores find true Love.? They divorce their spouses, and be together for eternity. You say that didn’t happen? There’s your answer.

  • I will give FOG a little love here. She’s got the right idea, but her choice of where to seek guidance is probably not the best. She’s getting good advice but its being dispensed for the most part with bitterness and vitriol (and why not, we’re certainly entitled to our anger and indignation…)

    The real evil person in FOG’s situation is her affair partner. FOG is trying to demonstrate some goodness here, she has some sense of integrity by trying to end the affair 3 times, she’s feeling guilty about her cheating, etc. What she doesn’t see (or can’t see) is what a black-hearted manipulator she’s “fallen in love” with. He’s using her for sex. I bet he constantly tells her about how great she is, or how she’s settling for less than she deserves, how her husband doesn’t “really” love her anymore, – its all designed with his end goal of relieving himself inside of her and getting his own kibbles on the way.

    FOG has a long painful road ahead of her, and the most important thing she could do I think is see her AP for the evil, narcissistic personality disorder he his. She’s tried to leave him 3 times – it may be he knows just what buttons of hers to push to get her to doubt herself and stay in the affair.

    This site helped me understand my wife’s affair partner:

    I do wish FOG the best. The most important thing she can do is end the affair, and nothing should take the romance out of that illicit relationship faster than exposing it – to both her husband and her AP’s chumped wife.

    I hope she seeks counseling to try to understand how she could make such devastating choices, for her spouse and for herself. I hope she finds the strength to do what she already knows is right.

    • ” She’s tried to leave him 3 times – it may be he knows just what buttons of hers to push to get her to doubt herself and stay in the affair.”

      And there’s where this kind of falls of the rails, bro.

      Her heart hasn’t been in the right place for THREE YEARS. She’s not helpless. She’s an adult. She is NOT a victim of an affair partner, that guy didn’t MAKE her choose her destructive, stupid decisions to have and continue an affair.

    • Yep, poor little fog is just an innocent victim. She’s “trying ” soooo hard. Fuck that, she’s a cheating whore, just like her co cheater. 50/50 split on the blame.

    • In case you missed it, FOG and her AP are BOTH married. What makes you think that FOG never pumps up her AP’s ego and disparages his wife? What makes you think that she isn’t the one running back to him after their breakups?

      • I understood they are both married, Lulu. And I think your suggested list of actions for FOG a few posts down from this is spot on – except I wouldn’t recommend a break up first, as that might tip off the AP that something is up, or give him another opportunity to change her mind. I would just tell her to expose the affair to both chumps now. She needs to act as soon as possible. The longer this goes on, the worse it will be for the chumps.

        Sephage, yes her heart has not been in the right place. But her post shows she understands that and may be trying. Perhaps like you, I feel I have every right to throw BIG stones, as HARD AS I CAN, right at her. I don’t think it would help her that much.

        Lulu’s response below pretty much nails it.

        • If she is serious, the horrible ap can’t “change her mind”. That’s what you call blameshifting. She is an adult and therefore responsible for her own actions. 100%. I’m tired of hearing what the AP did. She’s an AP too.

        • FlattenedChump – I am much more concerned about her future actions helping THE PEOPLE SHE VICTIMIZED (betrayed spouses and kids on both sides) than in helping her.

          • I hear you, Sephage. I have major (I no longer say “complete” – progress?) devastation in my own life because of my wife’s selfish choices and pathetically weak, flawed character. The OP’s story reminds me somewhat of my wife’s situation, except she choose the easy, cake-eating way out and kept ignoring her conscience and continued the affair. It was another 3 yrs (6 yrs total) before the finally APs wife decided that I should know about it and told me. So I feel I lost 6 years of my life, living a lie. I feel like I lost more than that actually. Part of my soul is gone. Part of it died; another part of it just went missing. And I am not kidding or exaggerating.

            I just don’t think there is any hope of helping the people she and her AP victimized, unless somehow she see’s the light and grows enough of a backbone to start by exposing and ending the affair. It may be that this onslaught of anger we are pouring out on her (it feels a lot to me like we are stoning her) after she came here seeking CL’s help might do the trick and shock her into lucidity. But our anger might make her feel more hopeless, lost and confused (the timid forest creature) and she’ll continue to seek false comfort in her affair. Maybe that’s what she wanted all along. Who knows.

            I chose to believe there is at least some good in her, and that she may need some help and encouragement to do the right thing.

            • You know you reminded me of a Captain Awkward post with this comment, it’s here:

              The OW and her AP are dysfunctional and harming the people they are supposed to love, it applies as a metaphor here too. “I chose to believe there is at least some good in her”. I get that, but people are the sum of their actions not their words alone.

              Excerpt from the post:

              Your friend is dating Darth Vader. Let me explain:

              “Luke, your dad is totally evil.”

              “There’s good in him. I’ve felt it.”

              “Luke, he blew up a planet just to make a point.”

              “There’s good in him! I’ve felt it!”

              “Luke, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but he severed your hand. From your arm. He cut it off.”

              “Dueling to the death is just how we relate. You wouldn’t understand it. Now that we both have prosthetic robot limbs, it’s only brought us closer together.”

              “Luke, he lured your friends into a trap so that he could murder them in front of you. We had to be rescued by Ewoks. It was embarrassing.”

              “Yeah, that was pretty bad, I admit! But there’s good in him! I’ve felt it!”

              And then Luke is risking his own life to carry Darth Vader out of the Death Star before it explodes so he can look up on that swollen purple face and experience one shining moment of real connection that would justify everything he’s invested in this completely dysfunctional relationship and he’s like “See? IT WAS ALL TOTALLY WORTH IT!” and even R2D2 is like “Whatever, the Ewoks are having a dance party, and I just can’t talk about this with you even one more time. Have fun with your collection of Ghostly Jedi Father Figures.”

              The difference is that the OW’s husband doesn’t know she’s detonating the Death Star on him, nor does her AP’s wife.

            • FC – I hear you. And I feel your pain in a way that I’d rather not, since I lived something similar. Solidarity, bruthah! 🙂

              I guess I am just saying that the only way that a person can exercise those demons that accompany doing terrible harm to someone, is to own up to that harm, ask forgiveness for that harm, and see what the harmed wants in terms of what it would take to make amends (and also probably offering up options to the harmed, as well).

              Same journey, I think, but I see the path as going through the hard, difficult, adult stuff, and not through a kid gloved version of those things.

              • Sephage,

                I appreciate your expression of support.

                I am not trying to put her on a kid-gloved version of the path she must travel, which as you are exactly right about, is hard, difficult, adult stuff. I am just trying to encourage her to take that first step by demonstrating belief in her, rather than ridiculing her and treating her with contempt.

                The result of her revelation of cheating is most likely going to be horrible beyond words for everyone involved, but the longer she waits, incapacitated by guilt and shame (or whatever her reasons), the fallout will only be worse. Especially if someone else reveals the affair, instead of her.

                She needs to find the strength to act now to confess and end the affair and her marriage.

                I don’t think she should ask for forgiveness though – that shows way too much self-interest. She’s driven a truck right over her poor, unwitting spouse. Now is not the time to ask him to forgive her for being a lousy, careless driver.

        • I like that you are giving OW a chance for redemption. She’s trying something. At least there’s that.

          • She’s trying for impression management, IMHO. If she actually takes any of the advice given here to follow through on divorce & be honesty, then I’ll be convinced her motives are good.

          • Fog

            When I was cheated on there was no compassion from the evil cheating duo. Quite the opposite. I was broken, discarded like trash. I wanted to die. Fuck no to sending a whore love, compassion, or an ounce of my energy. If only I could lift a boulder Fattened id drop it on her head. And this isn’t a witch hunt. The slunT did the evil deeds. Fuck, the violins fattened. Seriously, I’ve learned to empathize and send love to those who are worthy. So now we are saving timid forest creatures? Fog I guess you found your one in a million.. .. Your chump savior, lol.

    • You’re kidding me right? What makes you think her AP is more evil than she is?

      And this “Sephage, yes her heart has not been in the right place. But her post shows she understands that and may be trying. Perhaps like you, I feel I have every right to throw BIG stones, as HARD AS I CAN, right at her. I don’t think it would help her that much.”

      Please stop coddling this idiot. People who have affairs for THREE YEARS aren’t trying very hard. She’s getting her kibbles here, that’s it.

      • “You’re kidding me right? What makes you think her AP is more evil than she is?”

        It’s not much to go on, but she did post here about her guilt and indecision and is apparently looking for some kind of guidance.

        I’m not coddling her, I’m just declining to throw stones.

        • She’s looking for someone to “reward” her for doing the Right Thing. You know, Kibbles. The internet is full of sites that will do that, but it’s more fun to hear it from chumps, not other whores.

        • I agree with Anita. She doesn’t get a pass because she feigned the sadz. She’s not a timid forest creature. She’s a woman having an affair with a married man w/ children, for 3 fucking years. She comes to Chumplady for guidance on how to end her shitty behavior? Really? Anyone with a brain, or decent character doesn’t need “guidance” to do the right thing.

          And this . . . “But our anger might make her feel more hopeless, lost and confused (the timid forest creature) and she’ll continue to seek false comfort in her affair.”

          Please just stop. And wow . . . let’s not get mad at her, she might continue fucking people who are not her husband. She’s not “hopeless, lost and confused”. She digs the kibbles. It’s that simple.

          This has happened before, where a cheater will post here asking for advice. There’s always a few chumps eager to get in there and “help” them, even though the cheater kicks puppies and steals from old people. I’ll never understand it.

          • My mistake RumbleKitty – I thought cheaters who can’t face themselves and the destruction they are wreaking, or tell the truth about it afterward, are referred to by CL as timid forest creatures – I may have misunderstood the use of the term.

            I agree anyone with brains or a decent character doesn’t need guidance to do the right thing. But clearly, FOG does not have a decent character.

            You may be right – her whole post is a ruse designed to gain more kibbles. I don’t think I can think like a cheater. Its something I probably won’t ever understand.

            I will take your advice though, and just stop.

          • “Anyone with a brain, or decent character doesn’t need “guidance” to do the right thing.”

            You know what, that exact sentiment was an ENORMOUS factor in my filing for divorce against my cheating STBXW. Only children need something like this constantly explained to them; adults who don’t have this sh*t together should NOT be getting hitched in the first place.

    • Flattened, I know your heart is in the right place. There are lots of places on the Internet for repentant (or not so repentant) cheaters to find comfort — a support site for chumps, however, is not one of them. It’s just not my audience, it’s not my message, it’s outside my pay grade. So, an OW that asks for my advice? I usually ignore it, but occasionally I wield the 2×4 because they asked for it.

      FWIW, the poster wrote back to me and said she appreciated the 2×4 and is going to take up the suggestion of deep therapy. I hope that’s not kicking the can down the road to not telling. (Hey! I’ll just do therapy and avoid it some more!)

      Anyway, I occasionally post these letters to give you all a view into the minds of cheaters (I know, it’s untangling the skein) — because we tend to romanticize this crap, when really, it’s just all quite pathetic. Except for the part about stealing years from innocent people’s lives and endangering their health and children’s home life… that part is unconscionable (*three years*?!)

      • Is a lot easier to sling it at her here, when in real life most of us fall for the genuine Naugahyde remorse or whatever. I fully appreciate that she deserves all the shit sandwiches she gets. I don’t pity her or forgive her or whatnot. But I will also prop Flattened for trying to treat her like a human being. I get it, none of us are getting that back. And she may be full of shit. She may be so disordered she doesn’t even know that she’s faking it here (skein yedda yeh). Frankly, I’m wound up enough in my own cheater to waste more time on her, so I will take her with a grain of salt and at her word here- much like CL did. I’m out of bricks for other people, I’m saving them all for my own asshat narc. I hope to god this lady is planning on being better.

      • I get CL, and thanks for posting. I’m still trying to find some peace and acceptance about what happened in my life. I think my response here may have been therapeutic in some way for me. I still struggle to tell my story because its still so unbelievable to me. (I guess I thought I was special, too). Oh how far from the truth that turned out to be!

        I think it may be my way of trying to work through the trauma of a 6 yr LTA brought to my attention by a complete an utter stranger to me (the APs wife). I’m trying not to lose my humanity, although the things I have thought of doing to the AP would make an ISIS leader blush. But I know that would leave me, my kids, my parents, everyone I know worse off.

        • @FlattenedChump

          Just chiming in to say I completely understand the place in you which meets this woman with more grace and gravity than she deserves. It is a good place, a valuable place, a worthwhile place – and nothing to feel wrong about. I won’t untangle the skein of why she wrote to CL in the first place, but I appreciate that someone gave her some very good advice without vitriol, regardless of what may be her nefarious motivations. You’re a good egg! Bravo!

        • FC – that AP isn’t worth your time. FUCK that douchebag; you’re already so far ahead of him that you can’t even see him.

        • Flattened Chump–tell your story; if not here, in the Forums. You’ll feel better to write it, & get a lot of support.

    • The OW is not a child, so no bitch cookies for ‘pretending’ to do the right thing while seeking affirmation for it.
      She did something disgusting. No sympathy.

  • FOG is minimizing and slinging to a fantasy of herself as a good person who made a bad choice. Yes, the choice was bad. ALL OF THE THOUSANDS of choices she made for over three years (and probably before, as well) were bad.
    No mercy for this or any other knowing OW, EVER, from me.

    Fucktard’s OWhore, during our attempted reconciliation, sent a number of Oh Woe Is Me emails to him and to me (every time she was blocked she generated a new email account). Her shtick:
    1. It wasn’t ME, I was SEDUCED!
    2. And GOD told me it was OK, too.
    3. I’d never done this before, so I’m not a bad person
    4. I knew Fucktard loved you, Chchchchump, and in the beginning I knew it would be short-term and I fully intended to give him back to you (!) when I moved away, but I needed to be sure he would be happy with you, because I couldn’t STAND for him not to he happy!
    5. Fucktard PROMISED me he’d tell me face-to-face when the affair was over, and he didn’t, so he HAS to meet with me a few more times to meet his PROMISE!
    6. Oh, and I know there’s no evidence of any kind, and I had an IUD at the time, but FUCKTARD GOT ME PREGNANT (of course, I miscarried), and so he owes me more meetings.
    7. It was never really a ‘”true” marriage anyway.
    8. Is Chchchchump so vindictive that she wants me to spend the rest of my life alone without the man I love? Fucktard BELONGS with me! GOD told me!
    9. I feel like I’ve been thrown under the bus!

    If I had the time, I could probably make a new career out of publishing her insane writings. Except I’m not sure any publisher would believe someone actually, seriously wrote them.

    • “If I had the time, I could probably make a new career out of publishing her insane writings. Except I’m not sure any publisher would believe someone actually, seriously wrote them.”

      This literally made me spit my soup out of my mouth.

    • OMG chchchchump. Your head must have been wrecked! Hope you’re surviving and staying mighty x

      • Doing pretty well, thanks! In a relationship with a sane, loving guy now. OWhore was pretty quickly dumped by Fucktard – even HE realized she was nucking futs! (he had to get an order of protection because she stalked him, lol).

      • Now I get how people end up on Dateline, if I got those emails, I would have been. Just Wow! Shallow grave and a shovel please to deal with that one.

        • I really, really enjoyed Home Sweet Hell. Cheater almost threw up. I’d told him it was an action movie, like Mr. and Mrs. Smith. haha

  • FOG, if you’re really remorseful and serious about ending your affair you will:

    – Break up with your affair partner.
    – Notify the affair partner’s wife and your husband about the affair and answer every question they have (without warning your affair partner ahead of time). Affairs thrive in secrecy and die from exposure.
    – Be clear and obstinate in your desire for a divorce. Even if your husband begs and pleads, don’t pretend you still love him, and don’t go through the motions of false reconciliation and marriage counseling just so you can pretend you tried to save your marriage.
    – Give your husband favorable terms of divorce, even if it means leaving the marriage with nothing but the shirt off your back.
    – Don’t try to stop your husband from outing the spouse and talking about the affair with family and friends.

    Yes, it will be painful and humiliating to follow through with this, but letting go of your own comfort, dignity and sense of control is what’s necessary to truly make amends.

    • And another. Repeat the following lines as often as required–even if that means until the day you die. “Yes, son and/or daughter, the fact that our family broke up is entirely my fault. I was dishonest with your father for years, so we had to divorce. He did not deserve to be treated so poorly by me, but I was selfish. I lied and stole time, money, and opportunity from him–and from you–for years. There is no way to excuse or explain my actions.”

      You can add “I’m sorry” if you want, but that doesn’t mean you get to stop accepting the blame.

  • I believe that most AP’s are narcissists. And what I know about narcissists, I learned from my XH and first-hand experience. Narcissists enjoy causing us pain. The AP/OW/OM may read this blog, but they do so because they get off on our pain. They feel superior. They feel central. My XH had his first affair for 3 years before I discovered it, made possible by his working 1000 miles away from home. He is a sadist who thrilled to the idea that he could make me feel bad about myself, depressed, and devalued. He ate enough cake to feed an army.
    No day was more perfect than the day that one of the OW called me up to cry about finding out that he was cheating on her. That was the day that she figured out that he was a liar.

  • I agree most OW have narcissistic components to their personalities…usually brought on by severe low self esteem.

    They absolutely get warm fuzzies out of causing pain to the BW. Its a superiority/self-esteem thing. The MM choosing to fuck/date them allows her to infer she therefore must be worlds better than the BW. That she is so amazing and awesome the MM will risk his marriage to fuck her. Or she just has the type of self-esteem that is only built by pushing others down.

    And again, they love the “persona” of a broken, troubled, sexy cheater who Just. Cant. Do. The. Right. Thing. Gosh. Darnit. No matter how hard the little special brozen snowflake tries.

    As for OM…not sure about that. Probably just like the sex and have little to no morals or empathy.

    • MagPie, check the research on narcissism; no low self esteem there! They actually do, deep down, believe they are better than other people, and deserve more. The ‘covering up low self-esteem’ bit was an old theory, created by therapists who couldn’t understand that there ARE people in the world who don’t properly attach to others, who don’t resonate with other’s emotions, and who are fundamentally self-centered – and of course, any narcissist in treatment will grab onto the ‘low self-esteem’ explanation with both hands, since it masks their true feelings and intentions, and gains pity, which they can use to manipulate again.

      The two best books about this are the Bancroft one ‘Why Does He Do That?’, and Simon’s ‘Character Disorders’. LOTS of things make more sense with that info.

      • ‘The Great I Am’ is a narcissist through and through. He loves to pretend that he’s got low self-esteem (has he fuck’s like) – it’s a really good excuse to love himself even more, and a massive ‘Get Out of Jail Free’ card for being a complete arsehole. He’s from a family of narcissistic arsehole all crying ‘woe is me, I’ve low self-esteem so I have to canvas kibbles at every opportunity’!

    • I agree with KarenE–if someone has low self-esteem and you pump them up, encourage them, they (and their behavior gets better). If these cheaters get pumped up, their behavior gets worse–more deceptive, they demean their spouse even more, etc.

      The bullying literature used to assume bullies just had low-self-esteem, too. Nope, Ray Baumeister & others have determined that they usually have higher-than-average self-esteem. Lots of parallels to cheaters.

      • Spot on Tempest! Current Bullying research says: “By demeaning others, the bully himself (or herself) feels empowered.”

        This dynamic means narcissistic cheaters feel *GOOD* & empowered when they project & blame their anger & unhappiness on their spouse to continue their affair. No low self-esteem there.
        Rather, they feel empowered & pumped up by not only the affair strokes & attention, but also by secretly humiliating & lying to their spouse.

        The spouse has to lose so I had to lose so they can “win”. That’s the zero-sum game mindset of it all

  • This is not a letter from an “other woman”, this is a letter from a cheater. This letter should have started “I’m a cheater” the fact that she says she is an OW, completely devalues her poor husband.

    I do tend to feel sorry for single OW. I think in many cases they are deluded by the cultural narrative that strongly suggests that cheaters cheat because their spouse is just so awful. These single OW, often naive, dumb, desperate, or some combination of all three, think that the cheater is unhappy, will divorce the ex, and find eternal happiness with the special snowflake that is OW. They think this because that is what the culture is telling them. i admit, that I even felt that way myself. My cheater was bound to go off with OW, and find happiness and maybe even a job! But it rarely turns out like that does it? Cheaters don’t want to leave, they want to cheat. The OW starts to wonder and doubt. I think this site provides useful information to that sort of OW. It could be the two by four to the head that it takes to make them realize that cheating is caused because their affair partner is an asshole. Even if you win him you win nothing. By participating in cheating you have participated in abuse. You would think they would know this, but who has ever told them this? No one in the media except Chumplady as far as I’m aware. So, I do have a bit of sympathy. And I am going to volunteer to teach Tracy’s Aussie higher mathematics 🙂

    As for today’s cheater? I have no sympathy for your “guilt” you knew what you were doing.

  • FOG you say you read this website and it helps you. Helps you to do what? Continue to deceive? You are so sad, your tiny existence is pathetic. Like all the rest of the crazies in this world including murders, rapist, thieves, terrorists (yes, they eat kibble too).

    You and the rest of your cheater friends need to move to an island and let the rest of us live in peace.

  • Full of Guilt, seriously, why do you not know the right thing to do?

    I see that you are fearful of being alone and of change…and not having a sex partner. OWN your shit.

    You have chosen to stick a sharp pin into your husband every hour you delay in telling your husband that you want a divorce. In 3 years, that is 26,280 already. If you could see the physical effects of your actions, this is what it would look like.

    If you ever cared for your husband – even for 1 day – you would free him from this torture.

    Tonight, sit down and say “Baby, you know I love you but we both know this is not working. I am sorry this hurts, but I want a divorce.” That’s it.

    Of course this hurts. What is wrong with you?

    • Tonight, sit down and say “Baby, you know I love you but we both know this is not working. I am sorry this hurts, but I want a divorce.” That’s it.

      Two sentences. Less than 10 seconds.

      Nothing in regards to words and time to end three years of lies, deceit and misery imposed on an unsuspecting spouse and children for a hard on and vaginal fulfillment.

      FOG you are an abuser in the highest degree without a moral fiber in your bone. If you harbor guilt, it is for the intentional abuse of innocent people for immediate sexual gratification.

      Fuck you and your guilt. Tell him.

      • Saying that would be perpetuating the lie.
        You say “I have something to tell you. I have been having an affair for 3 years. Hence, I am a worthless piece of shit to you, which you did not deserve. I will give you favourable terms in a divorce if you so desire.”

    • It’s not my job to provide support or empathy to a cheater. I have NO respect for you FOG. So you come here looking for a pat on the back saying you feel guilty? You have to live with your actions. Your remorse is three years too late in my book. You get the combo #69 for three years and now the takeout feels like what? Your a cheater and the OW. Your once again misguided to think coming here will give you strength to do the right thing. You chose the wrong thing three years ago because your an entitled woman who has no morals or care about anyone’s needs but your own. You are selfish. Send your chump here, we will be here for him. You are an asshole for betraying your family.

  • Full of Guilt says she wants to leave both kibble sources? Sorry, FOG is full of shit.

  • Wow, you call yourself the ‘other woman’? You are married, you are a cheater and so is your affair partner. You’ve been taking choices away from your husband every day for three years. Please let him go, stop lying to him. Your husband has invested 3 years of his life with you while you have invested those years in another man. Let him go, at least let him have the choice, tell him the truth.

    • Yes, all the powers the cheaters embrace while cheating and keeping the dirty secret. It’s exciting! How does a cheater get the strength to deliver the final blow? Come here and seek out the help of chumps to do the discard and pretend you have a conscience. Tricky little whore. You are indeed a narcissist and a game player.

  • Well at least my 20 something other guy was not feeling any pains of regret! Out of fear he filled in a lot of the gaps my cheater was withholding. Todays world just sucks! No one is responsible for their own actions anymore! Everyone is entitled! Makes me sick!

  • Yawn. Another OW who claims to feel so guilty about being filth, but just can’t stop moistening her panties at the sound of a text notification from her filth partner.

    “Oh, no, woe is me, I keep sticking my hand in the garbage disposal and it hurts so bad, but I just don’t know how to stop! Boo hoo, what should I do?”

    It’s not fucking rocket science. Pull your hand out of the disposal and turn it off. Then see a shrink to figure out why you are an entitled, selfish and slutty POS. See an attorney to sign away your rights to any sort of spousal support and set your husband free to find a decent woman with some integrity (Yeah, I know, you have no intention of giving up on support, you don’t feel THAT guilty.)

    I used to blame MYSELF for being too weak to leave my cheating ex. But now I see it’s really these pathetic OW and OM and cheaters in general that are weak. Spineless, sniveling weaklings who have no self worth unless it’s at the expense of someone who doesn’t even know they are in the game. They love the stench of their own wickedness, because it is the only thing that makes them feel alive.

    • GIO – your last sentence reminds me of the movie, Dangerous Liaisons. What a bunch of sick people.

  • “….And I guarantee that he’s already questioned his value, worth, and attractiveness”. I lived for 21 years with my husband who had checked out at the beginning of our marriage (emotionally at first, and then physically). This is a VERY heavy load to live under. It undermines absolutely everything, the foundation of everything is built upon it. I do believe that is why I ended up with 4 auto-immune disorders and breast cancer. I am well now – but I had to get out.

    Even if this woman comes clean – her mate has a shit sandwich (he probably already has) no matter how we slice this. WHY THE FUCK don’t people just LEAVE??? WHY do this SHIT to people???? This woman could have ‘kept cheating’ 3 fucking years ago, but left her husband. As shitty as what she has done is? She has let this shit go on for 3 years… dropping little teeny bits of kibble for her long-suffering husband to keep him strung along.

  • Fog

    You are terribly confused about shame and guilt. In order to feel these emotions you would have to have compassion and remorse. Your kidding no one here. You are selfish and care about your own needs and no one else’s. Read through and see the pain your actions have caused loyal, honest, loving spouses who put years into raising families and trusted their spouse. We made sacrifices while you telling yourself how special you were to him. The devastation you caused caused PAIN to everyone involved. My guess is your affair cheater is a loser just like you and your finding out the payoff wasn’t worth it. Leading a double life costs money. You as the OW disgust me with your Naugahyde remorse. Your a leech. No therapy cures the evil inside you. You knew what you were doing. You’ll just move on or get that bargain basement looser you’ve been fucking. The insidious whore said she was a Christian woman and yet fucked my in a hotel, taunted me and wanted to know what it was like being alone. You wouldn’t know would you? You chose this. Fuck You. Pick a bridge and jump.

  • By the way fog, being independent with self respect and leading an honest life really worked out for me. On the other hand she’s stuck with the serial cheater who can’t pay his bills, and is using her to support him while he still cheats. That was an investment worth losing.

  • And this is where divorce courts are kind of screwed up. In many states a 3 year affair isn’t even part of the consideration, just the property. Just his paycheck versus hers. So if she played around for 3 years, but made 20K a year to his 80K, then she’s going to get a chunk of change every month, not to mention at the minimum shared custody. That’s not right and it won’t be right until divorce courts start treating infidelity as a form of spousal abuse. Some states are slowly catching on…

    If I were her husband, and she admitted a three year affair, I would walk away from her. I would sue for divorce, and I would use the affair as evidence of bad character. The problem is, the courts try to over manage the situation. If you cheat, you should lose. She should go be her OM’s toy on her 20K salary. And if she’s the breadwinner, she should pay her husband spousal and child support. THAT’s fair for what she put him through. And that’s the right thing for her to do.

    Now, I was going to go off and nail her for a million other things, but 200 other chump posters managed to do that, so I thought I’d add my two cents in a slightly different direction.

    • Yes Scott…. you are completely right. I wonder what State she lives in…. Different rules… different states on certain things.

      • I doubt she’ll have the balls to come clean to her husband. She’ll just stop the affair (because she is tired of being 2nd best to her AP’s wife), but never tell her husband a word.

    • Amen! This^^^^ Scott. I’m paying $1100 / mo to my lying, cheating ex ho. She checked out 25 yrs prior and cheated for most of it. She stole 30 years of my life and I have to pay her for the rest of her life?!?! It’s not right, but I do it gladly without one complaint (except here) because I have character and integrity and I do what the state mandates. She doesn’t have enough character to stop taking from me while also taking from the OM. It/she/they SUCK!

      • Scott, Markrd,

        If I were a judge I would give full custody for the loyal spouse and tell her to get a job.

        • In Illinois the judge has little say (except for very special case). It’s all now based on a formula.

        • Breaking a marital contract and endangering health via no safe sex with multiple hos should be considered a criminal act. My opinion.

    • Scott, I feel the same way, I was the high earner and ex husband got far too much because the courts do not take any abuse into account unless you can prove financial infidelity and by the time you go to court you spend what you saved paying the lawyer. I want to note that your desire for “divorce courts to start treating infidelity as a form of spousal abuse.” is not going to get anyone much help. Divorce courts do not care if you were a victim of domestic abuse any more than they care about cheating. In fact in my state it matters not at all. In my state you can get an “instant” divorce if you prove infidelity, but you get no such thing if you prove domestic abuse.

    • No fault states do very little to protect the non-cheating spouse. I was married to a long-term serial cheater who was mentally and emotionally abusive. I have a college degree and gave up my career to care for him and raise our family. I supported him in his career and I helped run the family business for little compensation because I was loyal and committed to him, our marriage and our family. All the while, however, he was carrying on with other women behind my back. D-day was 20 years in. I gave him the best years of my life and then the bottom dropped out and my future was gone… He used me. Nothing about his cheating was significant to the law. Very little consideration was given to the fact that I had given up 20 years of building a financial future for myself to support him in his work. After our divorce I was completely on my own to start over as a middle-aged female with little work history… I will never make anything near what he does in income. Ever.

      • Don’t forget that the financial theft is often part of this whole Adultery shit. They steal money from the family and, in my case, he had opened up accts in his name only with huge amts in them, until I caught him. That was almost as bad as thinking about the sex! We BOTH contributed to this marriage financially. What made him go so far off the rails to steal that money, and also a bunch of gold out of the house, thinking he wouldn’t get caught? Pure evil, I think. And, I think he was afraid I’d take him in front of a judge for those crimes (which I should have reported) that he settled pretty fairly. But, not without threat of a Forensic Acct.

        And, yes, he signed the original divorce decree admitting that he had done ALL the things I accused him of. Yay ME! It’s public record now – all the cheating and stealing. ha.
        Can’t believe his high-priced lawyer didn’t try to amend the accusations I lopped in there.

  • FOG,

    what you write in your letter is the story you tell yourself.

    what CL and us mighty chumps write here is reality.

    guilt is intended to make humans change their behavior and do the right thing. so stop fucking with your husband and stop fucking another woman’s husband. you should go F#*k yourself.

    AND sooner rather than later, your husband and the other adulterer’s wife deserve STD checks. some STDS are fatal, some lead to cancer and heart disease, and everyone needs to know there is no male test for HPV

    • This^^^^ There is no male test for HPV. You can guess how I know. My ex ho was the only woman I’d ever been with my whole life (until recently). She gave it to me and never told me (for obvious reasons). Now I found out the hard way. It hurt me terribly having unknowingly propogated it. She SUCKS. (Today is my 2 yr D-Day, if you can’t tell. I’ve stepped off the path to meh for the day)

    • PS, FOG, what your are “in” is not love. Real love does not lie, steal, or destroy. those are the markings of evil. sounds more like you are in lust, addiction, or lala land.

      Real love looks nothing like cheater love.

    • Kimberly, I believe it’s real because it sounds so much like the cheater ex, who was one of the “nice” cheaters. He was troubled, struggled with the guilt, etc. but in the end he could not stop his serial cheating. He could manage for a few years and then go on the prowl again. One of his OWs was a married woman.

  • “How do I leave my husband without hurting him more than I have to?”

    A bit late for the faux-remorse, is it not? You chose a path of narcissism and emotional immaturity over an honest/real communication with your spouse. As a result he will continue to suffer long-term (if not permanent) emotional damage, as will your AP’s chump. Meanwhile, you’ll still be feeling oh so sorry for yourself by way of your convenient sob story (self-pity is so unbecoming of a philanderer).

    If you truly wanted to be a better person, you would have ended this long ago. And if you actually had the cognitive awareness to understand how toxic your selfish behavior is to all others involved, you wouldn’t still be making BS excuses.

    WTF did your spouse do to deserve the knife in the back? Disgusting.

  • Get it right, lady.

    First and foremost, you’re the CHEATER. You’ve cheated on your husband…for years.

    The fact that you don’t mention that first, and don’t focus on that, shows just how much you’re trying to minimize your actions.

    Yes, you suck for being the OW. But you suck MUCH MUCH more for being the cheater.

  • So the name is FOG, all caps… maybe an acronym? I love to play guess the acronym, so Imma gonna say Fuck. Off. Git. With that said, I’m going to say a little more. If you wrote this shit, and sent it forward as a sick gag, to smile and smirk, and get your jollies with all of this attention that you knew would shake the hornets nest, let me set you straight.

    You are low life scum, but the real joke is on you. You are a dime a dozen, easy, spread like melted butter slut. I say this without a twinge of emotion, anymore than I would have talking about a used Kleenex; it’s simply what you are. You are a completely selfish fucking coward, liar, and awful near-human just like my ex-wife, and nothing but an easy piece of ass to be manipulated, used, and left fucked and deserted. You might want to confess now, because in a selfish way (cheaters always are), it might save your life. I know when the spouse of the other POS showed up at my home on D-day, I thought she was going to kill my ex-slut… Never knowing *when* you are going to get busted, is a hell of a way to live, always keeping one eye open. I can tell you from first hand experience, early on in my adultery saga if I could have gotten away with offing the mother-fuckers (both) I would have. Yup, discovery of adultery is that powerful of a motivator to destroy people who actively hurt and continue to hurt other people with no justice.

    You have NO FUCKING IDEA of what you are a part of, have gotten yourself into, and of all the destruction/fallout your selfish choices can lead to. I don’t give two shits and a snap about you, but I do about the others wronged… FUCKING TELL, make the divorce easy, then slither away… BITCH.

    • Very well said, 5Jump! It’s Russian Roulette. You play, you pay. Slither away snake, but that’s an insult to snakes.

  • I actually think if she left a clear note (probably not realistic) and jumped off a high freeway overpass it would go a ways towards solving the problems she’s created. What a turd. Go away.

    Yeah, I’m advocating self-violence. I’m really tired of the drivel from these life-destroying wretches. I think they should just off themselves, and leave the rest of us in peace.

  • FOG – My advice for you:

    Start your kids in therapy – Given that you have been fucking around for 3 years, they have probably been living in a toxic environment for at least that long, and need professional help to heal from your fuckedupness.

    Tell your husband and your AP’s wife what a piece of shit your are, and give your husband a generous divorce settlement.

    Get your tubes ligated and FUCK OFF.

  • blah fucking blah.

    you’re not afraid of hurting anyone else. you’re afraid of your affair losing its spark once it comes out in the open. you’re also afraid of how you will be perceived by other people.

    if you had any guts at all you’d never have started the affair in the first place.

    the only right thing to do is to tell him, tell your ap’s wife, and brace yourself for the consequences.

    you won’t do it, though.

  • First, I find it hard to believe that you feel any guilt at all. If you did, you would have cut it off. And three FUCKING years???? Really????

    I actually cannot believe that you would have the audacity to write your “sob” story on here. What these people are going through is very real and raw for them. I find that your story pours salt on our very open and very real wounds.

    As the daughter of a pathological liar and serial cheater, I will tell you that you have no idea the amount of pain you are putting your family and his through (especially the young children), so whatever “pain” you think you have, I find that to be a complete joke. You are the JOKE and the pathetic, easy SLUT!

    My father openly flirts in front of my sisters and me when we are out in public (and has for several years) with all of his “women,” even flirting with girls I went to high school with (I feel like gagging now). One of his OW even stalked my family for years… I cannot put into words how painful it is to realize (as the child) that you were only part of a game, an excuse to get away from the loving, devoted wife/husband. My entire childhood has been a complete lie performed by the puppet master himself (my whore/douchebag/asshole/loser of a father).

    I have had to hold my mother crying at 5 in the morning (while my father was snoring from the bedroom) after we found out about only a few of his affairs. My mother would sob and tell me that she didn’t think she was pretty, she just didn’t believe that she was enough (BTW, my mother is a gorgeous, loving, and caring woman who never deserved anything that happened to her). It is more than difficult being the chump-family; it is completely heartbreaking and life-altering.

    My youngest sister internalizes the blame and still thinks our father walks on water (she’s only five). Our middle sister refuses to date anyone, and me, well I’ve had the unfortunate event of finding men that are just like my father since I was about 14. After my most recent (and worst) abusive relationship, I’ve realized that I’m terrified to try and date/trust anyone because of people like you and your OM.

    Truth be told, if I could get my hands on my father’s OW, I would beat them all to a bloody pulp. I do include you in this, because I hate any mistress/mister that KNOWS their partner is married/has a family. I HATE people who not only destroy families, but entire lives as well. All you two do is think of yourselves. That is NOT okay.

    If you have children, they will grow to hate you for ruining their family. They will also hate you for the lies you made them believe, i.e. I am a good, hard working mother who is devoted to my husband. They will realize that they have no idea who their mother really is….All they will know is that you’re a whore who couldn’t keep your damn legs SHUT.

    As for your OM’s wife and children, they will hate you more. They’re lives will be destroyed by YOUR actions and your OM’s actions… and they will want you and your pathetic life demolished (and by the look of it, you’re doing a wonderful job at ruining yourself). To be honest, I hope that your OM’s (hopefully, soon-to-be-ex) wife BEATS THE LIVING SHIT OUT OF YOU.

    If you have any shred of remorse for your disgusting actions with HER husband and THEIR father, you will tell them the truth. You will also tell your husband what you have done. They ALL DESERVE THE TRUTH.

    You are a SLUT, the easy WHORE, and the good-for-nothing-but-sex-TRAMP. You are WORTHLESS. You deserve nothing but the consequences you have rightfully earned. I feel no sympathy for you. I HATE WHORES LIKE YOU (both men and women).

    • Leave your poor husband ASAP you bitch and quit whining. He will be OK without you. Anything will be better w/o you. Do not worry about HIS self-esteem.

    • AM, I’m so sorry you went through this, I know my 3 children are messed up too from my STBH’s affair. He denied and lied to all 3 of them many times. In fact one time he denied a phone call that was on the phone bill months after D-Day to my middle daughter who is 27. She called the number and it was the AP’s home. She told me after that happened she would never trust anything he says to her again. They just lie and hurt everyone.

  • AM ^^this^^ . More people will know about you and your reputation once this blows up, and believe me, it WILL blow up, probably sooner than you can admit it. You said, your husband knows. If he’s like me, he’s probably been following you for months on gps or something. Read your texts/sexts/pics. The Chump is NOT stupid! Neither chump is. You might be surprised how much both spouses already know.

    The shit is about to hit the fan whether you say anything or not.
    If you come forward first to ALL parties, you might save yourself a tiny bit of dignity.

    Please reach for that and spare these victims.

  • Why am I not fucking surprised she didn’t respond on here? Words are cheap as shit. Your actions tell me you’re a narcissistic whore.
    If I were your OM’s wife, I would suggest to run as far and as fast as you can now, because I would be fully intent to split your head in two with an axe. Fuck off!

  • Ok this is all getting rather nasty, yes FOG is an ass and a cheater. But aren’t we all above the nasty really! I don’t see how any of the vitriol is helping anyone. CL said it all in her response, and loads of good responses here, and I know people here are letting out their frustration, but really some responses are not helpful.
    FOG you need to understand what honesty is, what living a true life is….. Then you will move on to a better life. Deceit, lies… No way to live…. Grow up and do the right thing.

    • Not helpful, you say?
      Like any sympathy is to be given to a whore who willingly fucks over the lives of innocent children, to financially destroy a family, to have the whore rubbed in your face – to have your name and your decency smeared all because of a bastard who thinks more about their genitals than their brains.
      And then has the audacity to smear her woe-is-me shit on a site where people have just had their lives imploded and this may be the only ‘safe’ haven they have? Thats pissing on our territory.
      I’d say she’s getting her just desserts, and actually deserves more in fact. She’s fucking lucky I don’t know her in person.

    • Yeah I kind of agree with you, Bibi…
      I was never as mad at the OW as I was at X.
      X had it good, he had everything, and took it for granted. While OW had a shitty life and saw him as an escape route.
      When married women lash at single women like this, it looks like just another type of entitlement. “I am better than you, therefore I was proposed to at a young age. I have MY home, MY husband, MY kids, and you are just a SLUT”.
      We are not in control of our lives. Many things happen that we do not choose. What we have is only partly due to our self worth. The rest is circumstances, coincidences, blessings, luck…

      I remember the pain that my friends and I felt as young women who could not find someone right… what it was like to attend church where married couples were celebrated all the time, we felt out of place, despite the fact that Jesus was single. We were in despair. Yet we were college educated and responsible individuals, going to self-improvement therapy workshops and stuff like that. It was not as painful as being cheated on by a long time partner, but it was bad enough (I am so happy that I was given the opportunity to compare both situations, ha !). So, if a single women is pursued by an attractive and motivated man, and the man is married but finds a way to convince her, I can understand that she falls for him. It never happened to me, but I still can understand.
      What I don’t understand is the cheater. He is the coward who chose a comfortable lifestyle, and still wants adventure.

      • Yes shit happens but be honest and open about it and don’t deceive your spouse. And if the woman knows he’s married she is still a slut. I don’t care a promise is a promise. What we learn this as children and forget as adults. If you date a guy and find out he’s married walk the fuck away. He is a cheater, a low life. If the woman does not walk away she’s a slut whore. No getting around that.

  • Uneffingbelievable said it all in the best post EVER , truely hit the nail on the the head.

  • I hear a lot of talking FOG, but there is no doing. No bitch cookie for you. ” There is no try, only do.” – Yoda

  • I cannot have sympathy for a married woman who is ACTIVELY using another woman’s husband as a crotch rocket. How do you stop screwing this guy? Stay off his dick. It’s really that simple. Most adults have learned that a relationship based on fucking isn’t really a relationship anyway.

    I believe anyone is capable of change, fog. Prove yourself by not screwing this guy. Confess to both your spouses. Get every person in this petri dish of whoredom std tested. Do not blame anyone or anything else for your own bad choices. In other words, be an adult woman instead of a horny, hormone driven teenager wannabe.

  • I am tired of these whores. I have seen variations of this trip on a lot of sites. I feel so guilty.. I luuuurvvvee him. Yet I keep doing it, the kibbles are so good.

    To this particular woman:

    Feeling Guilty? Bullshit. You keep doing it because you can get away with it, because it feels good, and it is what YOU want. To hell with your chump husband (who surely doesn’t deserve this) to hell with your POS OM’s wife, who is incidentally RAISING SMALL KIDS.. wiping noses and asses, dealing with stomach flus, algebra homework, shuffling kids here to there, soccer games, dance classes, birthday parties at chuckecheese.. feeding them, washing them, attending to their every need emotional and physical.. while her shit for brains husband is out fucking you. Let that sink in a little. She’s taking care of innocent children.. your OM’s children, his offspring.. while he fucks you on the side. Oh, the drama.. but we Luuurrvvve each other.

    Honey, that isn’t love. That POS OM isn’t capable of love. And if he’s capable of screwing over a woman who is no doubt carrying the burden of raising his kids, than he sure as well can screw you over. A woman who knowingly allows herself to be a side piece for 3 solid years. He’s already told you what you are worth to him. Second class, side piece, NOTHING.

    There is only ONE way to save any shred of self respect and decency you may have. That is to go NO CONTACT with POS OM. Notify his wife, as apologetically as you can muster. Tell that woman the truth. It will destroy her world short term but long term she can save herself and her kids. It’s the right thing.. do it. And tell your husband. Get on your damn knees and beg his forgiveness. Don’t expect him to stay with you. Expect him to drop your ass like a bad habit.. but ask for forgiveness anyway. Stop wringing your hands, eating cake and loving the kibbles… get out of this situation and tell the people who deserve to know. You are making decisions for their lives.

    Get yourself some serious therapy. Like yesterday. For god sakes, in the future, stay away from married men.

    Signed, a Chump. You are welcome.

  • The BEST thing my POS ex’s AP ever did was give him an ultimatum: “Leave your wife or I will tell her about our affair.” My ex asked me for a divorce then, out of the blue, one beautiful Saturday morning, in front of our teens. Guess he knew the gig was up as cheating was a deal breaker for me. Funny thing though how all the pieces of living a lie (I was a typical Chump married to a Sparkley high functioning Cheater) fell into place the very second he spoke. Those last few years of “our” marriage were a joke (cake, cake, devalue, cake). Single and living an authentic life is so much better than being in a marriage in which one’s spouse is cheating (and all the other crap stuff that goes with these kinds of people).

  • There is something so incredibly fucked up about cheaters. My experience with this is as an ex-OW. I got sucked into a web of gaslighting lies which all came to the surface in July of this year. Since then Cheaterpants has come back relentlessly with apologies, lies, reasons, blah, blah, blah. But it’s cake he want’s, not me!!! Cheaters care only about themselves, their cake. I am ashamed to admit that I do love this asshole, yup, I’m disgusted as I type the words, but even though I feel that emotion I KNOW that love means nothing when it’s pointed at a piece of shit. I also recognize that there is something fundamentally wrong with my concept of love relationships, I don’t think that a normal woman would get sucked into this type of mess to begin with – my counselor says it is likely from watching my mom manage a marriage to an abusive husband, I learned from their dynamic…it’s much like the adulterous model you’re giving your kids, the cycle continues!!

    Get off the merry-go-round FOG! Just do it!

    Cheaterpants sent me another email on Monday asking to meet, to talk. Because I (shamefully) do love this narcissist, his continued correspondence fucks with my head even though I KNOW it’s all about him, his feelings, his cake. I HATE the war inside my head, I want it to END. So today I went to the police station and made a statement, I told an officer all the pathetic lies I believed, how stupid I’ve been, I brought print outs of the last email I sent, “Never contact me again for any purpose” highlighted in yellow. Screen captures of the texts and missed calls that followed. I had to inform my employer and change my phone number. A uniformed officer will be visiting him tomorrow to deliver a warning. Any contact beyond that will mean criminal harassment charges.

    So there you go FOG, there’s one example of “how” to make the madness stop even though you “love” the person. You make it happen.