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Dear Chump Lady, The “Other Woman” wrote me a letter…

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meanOWDear Chump Lady,

I discovered this site while trying to make sense of my current dilemma. My husband and I have been together 3 years, married 5 months, and friends for about a year beforehand. We moved to another state shortly after getting married and had our first child 4 weeks ago.

I’m totally in love with my husband and I know how much he appreciates me. He had a bit of a reputation for being a lady killer before we started dating. He has put that behind him. Two weeks ago I received a letter by mail. It was sent by someone claiming to be the “other woman.” My husband denies any wrongdoing and thinks this is just a crazy ex who found out we moved.

I’m hoping that’s the case. Maybe it’s his last girlfriend, who always thought there was something going on between us, is possibly jealous that we are happy together? Or his former friends-with-benefits who claimed to have slept with him while he was with the last girlfriend, (which is why they broke up)? He hasn’t spoken to either of these women in 3 years.

Since reading this letter I have been very anxious and worried, even though I can’t imagine my best friend would betray me at such a happy time in our lives. Can you please help me make sense of this?

Ami

Here is the letter:

Hello ______. When I found out about you I knew I couldn’t walk away without reaching out to you first. I didn’t know what I would say. I could just tell you what your husband was up to, but I don’t buy that you could be living with a man and be clueless about his extramarital activities. I also find it hard to believe that you’re some kind of Stepford wife who turns the other cheek while her husband carries on with other girls. What is this, an episode of Mad Men?! You do live in [Chump]ville so it is possible, as the majority of the male population there cheat like it’s a competitive sport while collecting the military benefits that come with having a wife.

If either scenario is true, I have little sympathy as I feel being a doormat is a choice. However there may be one other option I haven’t mentioned.

I pondered this for a while and I have a theory. This is what I came up with: Maybe you’re really a feminist hero! You’re taking one for the greater good of woman kind. Standing at the front lines trying to keep _______ off the streets and away from all the women he could possibly infect with his venom. Unfortunately he must have slithered out of your sights the night he met me. I’m not the only victim he’s made while with you (the Internet is an efficient tool for tools like him), but I know you try your best. Nobody bats a thousand.

One suggestion though, maybe try harder to keep him away from teenage girls. They aren’t smart enough to see his bullshit for what it is, I guess that’s the appeal. The Snap Chat generation is ill equipped for such a predator. That was a particularly disturbing find. Is Monster High a major part of their role playing?

While realizing I was the other woman amongst a sea of jail bait, wasn’t pleasant, at least I could get up and dust myself off. You however have sacrificed yourself to the cause, giving the rest of us a chance to run the other way when he returns home to you. You must have a truly altruistic spirit, and for this reason I would like to pay homage to you. I want to thank you so much for your martyrdom. I can’t imagine the anxiety that must come with that job. The rest of us are grateful that we don’t have to live with it.

As for _______ himself, he has no idea I found out. I won’t return his attempts to contact me but he doesn’t know why. He probably has my number saved as a male friend’s or has a second phone. He told me he wasn’t on Facebook but I found him and that’s how I learned about you. Guys are so dumb. I almost fell off my chair when I found out that he didn’t just have a girlfriend, but a WIFE and BABY! He lied about practically everything else too. Go figure.

I have no interest in furthering communication with you which is why I wrote this letter anonymously. I’m not trying to hold your hand in solidarity here. We aren’t a sisterhood of wronged women. I’m also not apologizing for things that he’s solely at fault for. He’s the only one who should be cross examined, but I guess I could be a little more forthcoming with details. TMI maybe. We’ve had sex in his black Silverado truck a couple times (my place too), he likes to be dominant in bed, he calls me Turbo a lot (I don’t know why), I have had to push condoms on him otherwise he won’t use them, he comes on strong when he wants something, then disappears, his dad left at a young age, I may have seen a tin of chewing tobacco in his truck but I’m not sure, he has tattoos, a scar on the back of his left shoulder area, he likes to run, used to live in _____, he thinks he looks like Ashton Kutcher? Oh, and turns out he’s married, with a kid!!! He’s not going to tell you who I am or how to contact me because he’s going to deny it all, that’s what liars do.

I figured I’d give you a heads up and a chance to deal with him however you see fit. Unfortunately I think I know how that will turn out as this is not his first offense nor will it be his last, and women are so quick to “forgive”. I know my tone has been condescending and mean-spirited, but that’s because I’m pissed. I was lied to and the kicker is he will likely not be held accountable at all. Maybe this will inspire you to pull your head out of the sand, but I truly doubt it. Guys like this get away with this kind of shit all the time because they marry pushovers. I don’t feel sorry for you, I feel sorry for the other women he lies too while you enable him. He may be good in bed but he’s not worth my pride.

By the way, kids learn from watching their parents. A woman should command and deserves respect, teach them that! If by some chance you don’t already know, get a PI to find out what he’s up too. Most importantly get your ducks in a row. This guy is gonna fuck you over big one day, that’s just a matter of time. Prepare yourself for the blow and come out swinging when it happens. Your husband is a textbook narcissist. Maybe after you confront him he’ll at least put some effort into acting like he’s trying to change, but you’d be wise to get your shit together before it hits the fan and come up with an exit strategy (start hiding some money and consult a lawyer!). Good luck.

XOXO
Formerly, The Other Woman
(One of them)

Dear Ami,

Well, she sure sounds like an OW — condescending, scorned, and… detailed.

But before I get into my advice to you, Ami, I’d like to give a shout out to that special snowflake, “Formerly, The Other Woman” there.

I almost fell off my chair when I found out that he didn’t just have a girlfriend, but a WIFE and BABY! He lied about practically everything else too.

You don’t say.

Gosh, “Turbo,” I don’t buy that you could be screwing a man and be clueless about his marital activities. I also believe that you’re the kind of girlfriend who turns the other cheek while her guy carries on with other women. I mean, surely you KNEW he was a douchebag all those time you did it in his Silverado truck. And your place? Did he tell you he was homeless?

And he comes on strong and then disappears? Yeah, we’re all just SHOCKED that this man is a cheater.

Come on, Turbo. Surely You Must’ve Known!

He was a good liar? Made you pretty promises? Had excuses that were somewhat plausible, until they weren’t?

Yet you find it perfectly understandable how YOU could be duped, but a woman with much more invested, and many more reasons to believe — like a marriage and a newborn — you fail to understand how SHE didn’t know? Fuck you, Turbo. You accuse Ami of being a knowing “martyr,” but then you feel compelled to TELL her? Why?

Because she’s a guided human missile directed at her husbandthe person you really want to hurt. So you hate on Ami, the innocent chump, for being the competitor who won the turd.

Guys like this get away with this kind of shit all the time because they marry pushovers. 

Guys like this get away with this kind of shit all the time because they cheat with losers like you, Turbo. Maybe you didn’t know, but I think you probably did, because if you were truly chumped, there is absolutely no reason to be so hateful to a fellow chump.

But if you’re an OW? There is every reason to try and blow up Cheater’s world when you aren’t getting what you want.

Now then, to you, Ami — you asked my opinion and my opinion is, yes, this nut is one of your husband’s affair partners. (If it walks like a fuck, and quacks like a fuck…)

I’m really sorry. The truth can often be utterly vile and presented in the most abrasive and hurtful of ways — but it’s still the truth. And it doesn’t make that bitch’s advice bad advice either (however self-servingly given) — protect yourself.

A couple questions for you Ami — your husband had a reputation as a “lady killer”?

His last girlfriend, who always thought there was something going on between us…

Was there? Because you were a “friend” who wound up his wife? Any overlap on that? Any chance you were the OW girlfriend once?

Anyway, I doubt it’s someone from four years ago. Sounds pretty recent to me, if she’d never thought to look up his Facebook before.

It doesn’t really matter which ex-girlfriend or OW it is, what matters is that you have knowledge. You could demand transparency, (and if he’s innocent, he should be at pains to give you every cell record he ever had and do anything to prove to you it’s not true…. something is telling me he’s blowing her off as a scorned girlfriend and is being very pissy.) But cheaters usually go underground, so you are going to have to snoop.

I can’t tell you for certain if he’s guilty (and we always want to presume innocence with the people we love), but here’s something to look for — the mindfuck channel. When you bring this up, if he flips between charm (I’d never hurt you, Baby!), rage (WE’VE ALREADY DISCUSSED IT! LET IT GO!), and self-pity (I can’t believe you don’t believe me! Everyone is always trying to malign me! This is so painful, quit bringing it up!) — you have a cheater.

An innocent person would be compassionate — it would hurt him to see you so hurt. And he would do anything, anything at all to reassure and comfort you.

Something tells me you’ve got the former and not the latter. I’m glad you found us. I’m sure Chump Nation can weigh in with its own advice on what to do. Big hugs to you, Ami.

 

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • I don’t know if he’s actually a cheater or not yet, so I would give him the benefit of the doubt. These ex gf whores can be really vengeful , especially if they were dumped by a guy. The things she says are very generic, like the truck, or things she might have learned about him in the past. So just lay low and keep your eyes and ears open.

    • Trust … but verify! Especially with that previous rep as a ‘lady killer’, and the pick-me dance w/his girlfriend and his friend.

    • Dont accuse him until you have concrete undeniable proof. Some people on here have excellent ideas on how to find evidence. Keep all the evidence in a secret place. Start putting money aside now. As much as you can get your hands on. Dont feel guilty about it. Protect yourself from stds. Pretend to have vaginitis which is aggravated by male secretions. You need to use condoms while you “heal” from this ” condition”. Good luck to you.

  • I’m sorry that you are going through this right after the birth of your child. That is a tough enough time in your life without having to deal with all of this. I found my cheating ex husband’s online dating profile several weeks after my daughter was born. Either I was too tired to care or I desperately wanted to believe that “his friends put it on as a joke”. (Upon reflection that is my first recognized moment as a chump). Years later I can clearly see all of the lies that he told me that I wanted to believe.

    Do your research now. Check the cell phone bills, charge cards, large money withdraws. When he says he is going out see if he really goes where he says he will be. If you can’t afford a PI find a friend who will check what he is doing. If he has an iphone, use Find My Phone to check where he is. Because without the proof, he will lie straight to your face and you will want to believe him. Don’t waste years. You can never love someone enough to turn them into a loving, caring person. If that worked this site wouldn’t exist. All of us Chumps would have loved them into good people.

    • Fair warning–investigation may lead to to some things that will utterly disgust you (seeing only some of my husband’s comments and how many profiles he had on hook-up sites certainly repelled me. You will need to make sure you have a truly caring and supportive person around you since you have a baby to take care of, who will not understand why you can’t cope because nightmares wake you up every night, or how much anger might build up when you discover just how chumped you’ve been, and how little you really know the person you’re married to. It’s really hard to deal with the knowledge of having a cheating husband when you were pregnant, especially if the pregnancy was difficult and the husband wasn’t very supportive because he was spending all of his spare time trying to hook up with other women or sexting them.

  • Yes, Ami! Run! I got a similar letter out of the blue from the OW after 20 years of, what I thought was, a happy marriage. I confronted my husband and he denied it. He even got the other woman to lie to me and tell me she didn’t send it. That someone who was stalking her had sent it to me to mess with her (she was never clear why it would have involved my husband and me). Anyway, long story short, I snooped and found out the truth, got my ducks in a row and am waiting for the judge to sign my divorce papers any day now.
    Run from that stupid f$cker!

  • “By the way, kids learn from watching their parents. A woman should command and deserves respect, teach them that! If by some chance you don’t already know, get a PI to find out what he’s up too. Most importantly get your ducks in a row. This guy is gonna fuck you over big one day, that’s just a matter of time. Prepare yourself for the blow and come out swinging when it happens. Your husband is a textbook narcissist…….come up with an exit strategy (start hiding some money and consult a lawyer!)”
    Does the OW read Chumplady? Kinda creepy.

  • The advice to get a private investigator is good. I would suggest a gps tracking device on the truck to start. That will tell you what he is up to. Then, if you need more information, you can upgrade to actually having the PI follow him, take pictures, etc.

    I agree with CL. This is definitely another woman. And the accusation of statutory rape is scary.

    Definitely keep everything business as usual. Don’t tip him off. You will get your answers.

    If you just had a baby 4 weeks ago, request a std screen at your 6 week check up with your OB. Embarrassing, yes. But not as unpleasant as learning 2 years later the jackass you married gave you cervical cancer. Been there, done that.

      • Thanks for sticking it to the author of that letter Chump Lady! My blood was boiling reading it! Yes, we all agree here that it’s important to tell the chump of a cheater, however that was a most sickening, nasty, condescending way to go about it. What a pathetic excuse for a human being! There was no empathy or compassion for the chump at all… Just self- serving revenge for the author! Just more of the same victim bashing we all seem to get in addition to the devastation.

        • Cheaper to just use an iPad turn off the sound and leave it in the truck. Then just use another apple device and turn in find my iPad….instant gps. You have to put wifi on it for about 49 bucks a month though. It took one day for me to find my ex coming out of ow house at 2:30 in the morn.

    • Yes! My PI sold me a GPS tracker. Saves alot of time & money in their fees. They can come in & confirm/document once the tracker shows them at a suspicious location.

    • I’d be really tempted to develop some symptoms – say pelvic cramping – and get an appointment ASAP. Then fully divulge everything to your OB/GYN, get the STD testing done, and tell her that you want to use the visit as an excuse for no sexual contact for another six weeks. You have a perfect opportunity here, why not use it? Not many of us get an opportunity like that for ceasing sexual contact. But if the dood is possibly screwing around with half the high school cheer squad, you don’t need that dick at all.
      Of course, the next stop is at your attorney. Follow Tracy’s advice on all of that. Don’t tell the dood. You owe him no explanation. Read everything on this site!
      I’m really so sorry you’re having to go through all of this. Ami might be a hot mess, but this letter could have saved your life.

  • I think Tracy is right…. Ami says herself he was a lady’s man…and the old girlfriend thought there was something between them. But now she is married, new Mom and moved away….the dynamics have changed. She is where many of us were…. stuck and doubting…and fearful she is now tied to this guy with her child.
    Me….I’d take the OW advice. I’d get my ducks lined up. OW gave details…. enough to make me think she knew him somehow…some type of way.
    You know that you know….but you don’t want to know…so you ignore what deep down you know….
    We all have done it. It’s how we were chumped. Red flags flying high…we decided they were rainbow colored with unicorns on them…with glitter…and ribbon tails blowing in the wind.
    Ami….listen to your gut. Get evidence. Get your finances lined up….document…..go see a lawyer.

  • Well, his track record isn’t good. You just need to look at his past to see who he is.
    People very seldom change.

    She is a nutter, but I think you should not discount that there may be some truth to what she says.

    I would not let your husband know about the letter. Keep it hidden and start to snoop. Do NOT let him know anything has changed between you, because he will hide, lie and deny it all. In fact, these guys can get abussive when confronted.

    I think if you can dig up some cash, hire a PI.

    Also, start stashing cash. Take out extra money when you grocery shop. Find a safe place or ask a friend to hold on to it. Start creating a safety net for you and your child.

    I thought I was special too. He wouldn’t do that to ME. Or our children. I just couldn’t wrap my brain around what my gut was screaming at me for years.

    You are not alone. We have all been where you are at one point.

    I also think you should have a safe place lined up to go or a friend on speed dial for when his mask slips off. Which it will when he realizes that you aren’t as naive as he wants you to be.

    Just be careful of this guy.

    • Lucky’s advise is dead on right…the OW is nuts and vindictive but that doesn’t mean she isn’t telling the truth.

      I wish that someone had tipped me off way back when because I respectfully disagree with Tracy that we all saw red flags…I really didn’t.

      I will admit that Im very trusting and gullible (I actually work with the dying – a field where kindness and truthfulness and transparency and being very real are helpful traits – also traits that make a good chump) but nowdeadhusband covered his tracks VERY well and was a MUCH better liar than I could have ever guessed.

      Apparently he hid casual flings for years but “falling in lurve” making his side fuck a Schmoopie was what precipitated his meltdown that got me onto him – but even then, he held fast onto some of his lies until he died and I found the truth later.

      Some of his behaviors that were “classic cheater” were things that I didn’t recognize until much much later…I didnt think the red flags were rainbows, I really didnt see them at all.

      • Unicornnomore,
        That must very hard to find things out after they are gone. My Dad was a cheater, but we didn’t find the extent of it until he died too. My grown son (27) was the one to take his laptop and decommission it – he destroyed the incriminating files then told my husband the gist of what he had discovered. We decided to let the dead rest in peace of course, but it has forever tainted my memories.

        I’m sure my son didn’t reveal the half of it, glad he didn’t, but I hope such an experience didn’t mess up his head.

        Why does life experience make us so wise so late in life? I really trust no one except myself any more.

      • I agree, OW (or girl?) is a condescending and presumptuous bitch but that doesn’t mean she is lying. I only WISH someone had done me this favor, I would not have been so trusting of him had I been warned.

        Assuming that Ami “knows” and being so cruel is pretty uncalled for so it could (not saying IS) be a vindictive ex. If it is…she’s good. When we love, we trust. Unless we have reason to be suspicious we don’t typically play detective. Ami now has a reason. Do NOT take his word for anything! HE WILL LIE!!

        I know there were red flags with X-hole, they were outshined and masked by his alcoholism. I got pregnant IMMEDIATELY and it was already too late for me.

        I still chumpily had hope and loved him with everything in me….until the mask came off completely. I never knew him at all. “Unsettling” doesn’t begin to describe it adequately.

      • Unicornnomore, it’s not Tracey saying there are red flags we knew about, it’s the OW, then Tracey being sarcastic about that. Everybody here agrees, I think, that some cheaters are super good at hiding what they do, and who they are.

        • Mine was, stupid me, he NEVER came home late or disappeared so I never suspected any extra curricular activities. He is a tile setter by trade and works in the homes of fairly wealthy people, often the women don’t work or work at home….in hindsight I’m sure he was getting it from a few of them here and there. Working for himself, I’m sure he had no problems slipping away here and there as well to meet up with whomever and whenever during the day. Pretty sure “married” AP’s was his thing, he had nothing else to offer so it’s not like they were going to blow his or their own cover and screw up their own lives. Assholes, all of them!

      • Just as there were no rainbows I was never a princess. The amount of finess these cheaters learn over time as we continue to love them is what they do. And we HAVE invested our lives and thought they loved their children. After three months of therapy I had to stop saying. I can’t believe he…..
        My therapist said I could stop gathering evidence. It took years to see him, years. Once that mask dropped I finally saw everything clearly.
        Moving forward I know the subtle tactics and red flags. They were always there yet narcs give just that little thing intermittently that sways you back into thinking, he really does love me.

        • Donna, I am curious what those are. You sound like you learned a lot, could you share what the subtle tactics were? I am still shell-shocked from X, and what he did for so long, I really think I still have PTSD. I am also in a new relationship, which is going pretty well, but I def have trust issues. Anyway, thanks if you see this, and can share!

  • Don’t confront him with suspicions– he will deny it for sure even if he’s guilty. Confront him with FACTS if and when you have absolute proof of his infidelity. That way you know for sure he’s a liar. My exCheater and his married girlfriend were texting each other constantly, and I took screen shots of his phone while he was in the shower or out jogging. He still denied the affair but at least I knew the truth, and I had proof.

    • Strad is absolutely right, do NOT confront with “suspicions” as they will deny, these people are not capable of remorse or honesty. You must find proof that he is….or proof that he isn’t. Worst thing I ever did was “drop the ball” the first time I suspected he had cheated on an out of town trip. Could have saved myself a whole lot of money, time, heartache and bullshit.

      I did the same thing Strad, found X-holes super secret cell phone hidden in his truck, spent 2 hours screen shotting their text messages. Offered them, and any e-mail and other accounts I had found to OW’s hubby in case he needed them for his divorce.

      • That is really good advice. I would have killed to have hard evidence. Instead, I just had suspicions for years, but dismissed them as my own insecurities! It wasn’t until I finally found irrefutable evidence and confronted him with it, that I was able to witness him lie. He told me I didn’t understand what I read. It was amazing! Even then I was tempted to believe him, after I’d read the evidence in black and white. When you’re desperate to keep your family together and stop your world from falling apart it can be hard to face the truth.

      • This is so true. Kept quiet about panties, but I kept them. And quiet about phone records. Saw this week in his phone records that he has been talking to an STD clinic, and he is super hypochondriac about a cold I had last week…so now I am off to the doctor to find out what his rotting cock gave me the last time he could actually perform (I’m not a hooker so I’m not his type I guess) I really need to keep up the ‘I’m tired’ routine and beg off sex until he has a fucking job so I can kick him to the curb already. And I somehow have to tell my parents not to give me a load of my grandpas estate this Christmas. Keep it too I’m free. I’m so done. I’m so glad I started coming here and just started watching and realized what I should do before I was privy to what was going on. I am not wasting another year with this asshole. Get a job and get out . Dickbag.

        • hey baby, you know what’s sexy?
          full time employment!
          you know what’s even sexier now that you have a job?
          you out of my life!
          Good job in the preparations are creativerational

        • Thanks you guys- I learn so much just hanging out here! And I’m in canada, so sometimes it’s valid and other times I just have to use mr Google and save my questions for the consultation with a lawyer when it’s time. This would be my moms inheritance and she would be gifting it- and frankly I just don’t want new money to mix with the old- I want to leave this shit box and move on and then maybe have a nice nifty nest egg to start fresh with- or pay my lawyer with. But no soup for asshole. He does have a job but he just finished his degree, and he’s still working retail instead of as a nurse. He worked while I finished school and then we switched, but I was employed for more than Cheetos right after I finished. GET OFF YOUR ASS!

          • Why the hell are you waiting for him to get a job before booting his sorry ass??? To make it EASIER for him?? So he can set himself up better?? Fuck that, it aint your problem. kick his ass to the curb now, he can find some cardboard and sleep under a bridge. Dont keep fronting him-get him OUT!

            • There’s a mixed bag of why I am waiting. I have no extra money, I am the bread winner and I am barely above water. If we live in this sharada a few months and I pay down some debt so I can get a retainer for a lawyer together- and he actually contributed to that, it’s worth it. I also make 4 times what he does- It’s a support issue- I am not booting him until he has a (better) job so that we are equitable in pay- so that I’m not going to need to support him, as he is accustomed… He only graduated from a program in November. He could really screw me if he continued in his education immediately and move forward with additional credentials, that has always been the plan after working for a year or two. If he was booted from our house and he had no net, he would be able to hold me accountable for his lifestyle, I kicked him out while he’s dependant on me blah blah blah. I would rather pretend to swoon and adore his lying ass for a few months and then calmly make his exit the only option, while we both have the means to be responsible for our own goddamn shit. These are my ducks. I have every Friday in December off to see lawyers and doctors and figure out my real plan, photocopy everything and get my house ready for one of us to move. He is insatiably vain, totally useless and lazy around the house, completely secure in our relationship and nauseatingly loving. He thinks he is in love with me- I get great gifts and great call outs on Facebook about being an amazing wife. If he wasn’t a cheating shithead I would have the best husband/ pet rock. Waiting isn’t trouble for me. I also am super at keeping my shit together so this is an Oscar worthy 6 month performance to make sure that when it’s over, it’s over. Quick. Smart. Done.

  • Unfortunately, there is more here than meets the eye. Go stealth, do your detective work and get prepared! PI’s can be expensive, but if he has an iPhone and he is on Facebook then use that to your advantage….activate the “find my phone” app and then go to his Facebook and upgrade to the “Find friends” app! It will tell you exactly where he is if his phone is on him and turned on! Much cheaper than a PI! Using technology has worked so well for cheaters, but it can work well for chumps too!
    It’s beyond terrible that this is happening to you during a time in your life and marriage when you should be so happy, what with a newborn and all, but it never hurts to be a bit on guard! One of my biggest mistakes in my marriage was trusting my husband too damn much! And he took full advantage of that and me! Trust is good, but blind trust is deadly to a marriage!
    Take good care of yourself and your baby and do your “detective” work! Best of luck to you!

  • Too many red flags. Keep your eyes open as CL suggested. Doesn’t look good, though. He moght be innocent but those chances look slim from whatbwas shared. How do you know he has turned “Lady Killer” off?

  • Ami…. Where there is smoke there is a cheater with his pants around his ankles… Liar , Liar pants on fire!
    You will receive plenty of solid advice here… Use it.

  • He calls you Turbo a lot and you can’t figure out why? Maybe because you’re not the only OW so he’s come up with a special nickname for all of you, since letting the wrong name slip out could cost him some kibbles. Could that be it, Turbo?

    Idiot.

    • LOL,
      A turbo is a blower.
      Maybe his nickname for the girls matches their talent.
      Turbo
      Cowgirl
      Princess
      Etc

      • Oh, thank you Get Out and This Chump! I’m howling at the nickname, “Turbo!”
        Because you blow him, dummy! That sucks! Bwhahahahahahahahahaha…

  • Its hard to say if he is a cheater or not. I’ve seen this before where an X is not happy the person moved on and is living a happy life so they make up a story to try and destroy it or cause problems. Unless there are some signs to prove it I would have to say give him the benefit of the doubt that it never happened.

    • That’s true Lothos. Many of us have disordered exes who do the character assassination thing. What tipped me the other way was the “Lady killer” reputation and the ex-GF who thought Ami was “more.”

      • Yes, but even if he is a lady killer he was a lady killer when he was single. There are many people who have the time of their life when they are single and there are not enough toes and fingers to count how many people they have been with but when they finally settle down it is for real. My problem is that in her letter there is just no proof.

        I would suggest maybe doing a passive check, look at the current phone records and bills to see if anything out of the ordinary sticks out. Also is her husband having weird reasons to not be home like working late etc… if everything seems normal and he is not doing anything out of the ordinary and there are no signs other than this Anonymous letter well that’s not really anything to go on.

        With my X there were tons of signs but I just chose not to believe them. Disappearing acts, schedule changes, expenses on her end going up and phone calls through the roof that burn through our roll over minutes (when Cingular existed). People who cheat are not the brightest in the world and usually let their ego get the best of them and start making mistakes.

        • Lothos

          I believe the letter was sent by someone who knows about his history. No doubt these lady killers typically hit and run. As many here say a leopard doesn’t change his spots.
          There are other red flags including the POA which is unique to someone whose all in with the marriage and having his first child. Many cheaters start cheating when their wife is oregnant and in a vulnerable state. It would be hard to ignore the statement about him preying on teens. And he did move her away from family and friends.

          I try not to decider cheater logic because not much of what they do makes much sense to normal non cheaters. Yet, they have so much in common it’s striking. I take my hat off to CL for this site which heightens our awareness so these young newbies have a support system and don’t waste their lives doing all the sweet things innocents do only to be chumped.

          • Ami, I would like to know more about the whole moving out- of -state scenario. Did your husband do it for some ‘new’ job? I am thinking he might have wanted him and you AWAY from old OW’s, ex-girlfriends etc. who might make you all the more wiser… Maybe he was fired from his old job or ‘transfered’ by a boss who valued his ability BUT worried about sexual harassment issues on the job etc.?

            Finally, I just want to say how very sorry I am that you are now where we have all been. There are some GREAT chumps here though and we will internet ((HUG)) you, support and comfort you around the wee hours of the he morning when you are lonely, sad, confused and taking baby steps forward (and a few steps backwards).

            • The move made sense, several of his team members moved to this area for promotions or more stable positions with fewer deployments when they got married and started families. The letter mentioned “military benefits”, after marriage there are decent benefits and its a nice area to raise a family.

        • Then there are those that are super stealthy and everything is normal. And I mean Great normal, which makes it all the more sucky. Because it was just a fantasy all round.
          Like my STBX.

          STBX should have been an actor or politician seriously. Had us all including his family all chumped. Romantic dinners for us, sexting me, great sex, telling me how much he loved me, fussing, no change in work or travel, holidays, called me all the time even while with OW which upset her terribly, poor Smoochie!! No credit card or debit card trails as he used cash, ran it through our business. I didn’t see those accounts!! I do now and have tight control till it’s sold and gone. Everything was done at a distance. He didn’t dig his “ShitHouse” close to home.

          The only thing that was different is he showered more then he ever had and at odd hours, for about 6 months before I found out. I used to tease him about it. If I’d googled I would have seen that it’s at the top of the list for signs to look for in a cheater!!

          He got busted by an acquaintance who saw him and Schmoopie together at a charity event shingding in the city. Which I knew about but couldn’t attend due to a sick child. He called her in as a replacement, she was sooooo excited. It might have meant things were going her way. Hahaha the laugh is, being a narc he couldn’t stand being along and needed his nightly dose of Kibbles!!

          The friend let me know. He said the OW was all over STBX and he was drinking like a fish. Which is why the STBX didn’t even see the friend. Lucky me or I could have gone another 23 years of “Abuse” (that’s what I consider Adultry) with no clue at all. Then I went stealth got all the evidence and confronted. First thing out of his mouth, “It didn’t mean anything, She didn’t mean anything”!! All over Red Rover!!!!!

          And while he was still in “I can salvage this Mode”, I made sure I got all Records evidence I could, pretending reconciliation. So I have a pretty picture of how it really was for the last 7-8 years at least. Technology wasn’t that advanced further back then that.

          Now on to the future and bigger and better things.

          Oh on a side note, there were several OW at different levels who he had been grooming or which for various reasons hadn’t progressed. The last OW who he was juggling with 2 other Schmoopie’s actually left her husband and dumped her two poor teenage girls, destroyed her family pretty much. And for what…. He dumped her like a hot potatoe as soon as he was busted as well as other two OW. Tried to wipe anything that might connect him or incriminate him. Because “I was the Love of his life”. Gag gag hoik!!

          She hates his guts now and so do the 2 OW as I made sure they all knew the explicit details and should go and get STD checks because they weren’t the only ones. (I borrowed a few tricks from his manipulator bag, I had to get my head around how to think like one but it worked a treat in the end)

          And really the only “Love of his Life” is HIMSELF

        • My X was highly intelligent & practiced at deception, and rarely slipped up. It was mainly in retrospect I could see he made a few minor errors (but with so little information I didn’t connect the dots). Some of these MFers are good. I wish I’d had a letter from an OW to kick mine to the curb sooner.

        • Lothos,

          My cheater was home for dinner every night right on time. He was careful to call OWhore from a phone other than the one I could check, and sent her email only from his work account, which I could not access. He f*d her during work hours, on business trips, before or after Saturday errands, and whenever he thought he wouldn’t get caught. Just because things SEEM normal, doesn’t mean they are!!

        • Wow, some incredible stories. I guess I was lucky that my X was not that smart to pull off such a stealth mode as some of you have reported.

          The shower, comment, hmm never thought about that one but it makes complete sense.

          Maybe there is some credibility to the letter but I just feel you need a little more proof before jumping to conclusions.

  • I think the hardest thing I ever had to do was act like I didn’t know anything, when I knew almost everything. My idealistic self wanted to leave, my practical self realized I had to “get my ducks in a row” — I had two children to care for and bills to pay. I also wanted irrefutable evidence, and I wanted revenge to the extent that he wouldn’t have a “safety net” woman in place — I knew I couldn’t change his life, but I sure could make it uncomfortable for awhile. I also wanted the OW I knew about to know what they were dealing with — so they would have no delusions about what he coldly and knowingly did – to me and to them. The cold blooded, systematic use of others is just despicable — and I think you should at least make an effort to tell what you know.

    Unfortunately, women are not very nice to each other much of the time. We should not get mad at another woman who has been duped by the man who is supposed to belong to us — unless we know she is a predator who knew about us from the beginning and stalked him anyway. We should be mad at the one who caused all the problems, and we should direct our anger accordingly. Easier to say than to do, right? That being said, there are bat shit crazy people out there who do very strange things when they don’t get what they want. My theory is this — SOMETHING went on, or the person would not know who he is or who you are, and they would not take the time and trouble to notify you. With this amount of detail — this woman was clearly involved. Recently, too — she wouldn’t take years to track him down. It is hard to accept that your man is not who you thought he was, but the evidence will speak for itself. I also hated admitting that I had been duped to that extent — but that was a hard fact I had to accept, too. Yes, he will lie to your face. Yes, he will try all the manipulative BS he can think of. Yes, he will do it again, and again, and again. What you learn about him when you snoop is who he really is, and it is disturbing.

    This experience will also change you, in ways you probably will not like. You will never again be as trusting and chumpy as you once were. You will develop a BS detector, and you will be alert for red flags — not just from potential suitors, but for people in general. Once you learn what these predators are like, you will be amazed at how many of them walk among us. It is an inevitable part of survival — developing the skill of wary awareness that will keep you safer than you were when you fell into the original chump trap. Unfortunately in this world, it is adapt or die. I just don’t see how I could ever be that chumpy again — I may be fooled again but I think I will figure it out sooner, and I will accept it quicker, and I will react with lightening speed. I don’t have any more years to waste in my life, and I don’t intend to ever be that unhappy again, ever.

    • Ami- Portia and CN are saying it true. Be wary and protect yourself and your newborn. It takes nerves of steel to execute, but come here often for reinforcement.

    • Like Portia, I lived the lie for several months, gathering proof & plotting my exit while the ex strutted thru that secret life of his thinking he was getting away with it.
      I’d read & seen enough to know how useless confrontation without proof is. How cheaters lie & play on Chump sympathy. I wasn’t going to live that shit.

      I often wonder how ex didn’t see that I’d caught on. Was I *that* good an actress, or was he just too self-consumed to notice?

      It was so damned hard living that way, but I found internet support groups, saw my doctor for antidepressants & started counseling to steel myself for what lay ahead.

      He knew none of it. I had my own little secret life. Super sleuth.

      When I was close to having all the pieces needed, I asked him what was going on with him, anything he wanted to tell me? Said he seemed so distant, yada. He danced around it saying nothing was up but of course managed to blameshift any ‘off’ behaviors to me. Douchebag blew his last chance to confess.

      Within a week I pulled the trigger & had my PI follow him for visual, undeniable confirmation. The shock & awe that he walked into upon coming home that day was EPIC.

      None of this is fun, none of us would choose this ending. But the hard work of preparation was empowering. It motivated thru the despair, DROVE. me to stop the victimization & be Mighty. I held all the cards & turned the tables.

      Too many Chumps turn to their Cheaters to make them feel better, loved, secure when their shit starts stinking. I guess I just don’t understand putting all that right back in their hands in the midst of betrayal.
      It belongs in YOUR hands. You are the only one you can trust right now.
      Be smart. Be strong. Be Mighty.

      • This seems to be a running theme today. I never thought that it was a huge part of infidelity management, it seemed like when you know, you blow (the whistle, your top, the guy [or girl- hysterical bonding], your cover) but if you have the opportunity – as this letter writer does- to watch and wait and time your exit it can really make all the difference. Watch, wait, plan, steel yourself, set up ducks, don’t move until you are ready: know where you’re going if you decide to leave, have a new bank account and move half the money, have a confidant and a lawyer and they aren’t the same person (lawyers are only for business of splitting. No tears, no extra time, you’re paying for that shit) … Get evidence. When it’s time, I plan to sit down and be super calm- because that’s who I am. I might cry but I don’t think so, that’s all disappeared. But I expect he’s going to be weepy and clingy and then get mean. Which is why I will have someone there. get out. get out. Get out.

        • I made it a whole week without blowing my stack! It was all I could do, but I found a lawyer, told some very good friends so my support system was in place, the I got the financial documents I needed out of the house, copied, and put back before he could destroy them, which was really necessary for my attorney.

          I didn’t cry at all during confrontation. A couple weeks later when he really set in on gas lighting, blame shifting and attacking me I let out howls and cried for three straight hours (more than an hour of which one of my children watched while trying to comfort me) until I dry heaved and passed out. I never cried about it again, just pushed my lawyer to go as fast as possible without damaging my chances at the best outcome possible. D-day to done in under 5 months.

          • Considering fake crying to try to get him to sign off as the adulterer he is in the paperwork (via guilt) so that we can be divorced faster. I cannot tell you how much I want to not wait my year separation period which is only waived if someone signs off that they were unfaithful.

      • I failed MISERABLY when I found proof…I thought if I confronted him he would say “I love you , Im sorry, I will never do it again!!” but instead he said “I wont apologize for falling in love”. I called him 15 seconds after finding the letter to Susan in Seattle and demanded he get his ass home…he had his whole drive to concoct stupid stories. me fail

        • Not a fail. Human. Instinctual. I only know better because I found chump lady while being gas lighted (he was accusing me of being unfaithful and so I was trying to understand where the lines are for most people and found this site, which was funny so I kept reading it… and so started my impending education that I was actually the chump not accidentally a sociopath… Go figure)

      • Similar confrontation once I had proof from my PI. XW came home at 9 in the morning, claiming she had fallen asleep at a girlfriends house after watching movies.
        She asked me if I had seen her wallet. I said no, and inquired if she had been anywhere other than Gf’S house. When she said no, I asked ” How about 7224 3rd Ave,S , in Richfield?”
        She was stunned,but,shortly went the indignation over being followed route. I just told her to get fucked.

  • When I first read this I thought it was written by a much older woman. Who makes references to the “Snap Chat Grneration”. Could this have been written by a family member who knows about his history and doesn’t want you to get hurt? It’s over kill for the OW to tell you to hire a PI, save money, and get a lawyer.

    • I found that odd too Donna but a very good point. I felt it may not have been an actual OW, but someone who knows the facts and is warning Ami. If not that, than an older OW who is perhaps much older than Ami. Ami-so sorry you are having to deal with this. I would suggest sitting back and collecting evidence while lining up your ducks. Once your eyes open, you will be able to see him for who he truly is and act accordingly.

      • Except that the tone of the letter is clearly nasty, as if the person herself feels betrayed. Ami does say “I can’t believe my best friend would betray me at a time like this.” Is the letter from a friend of Ami’s?

  • In my case, Portia, the OW was a predator who used Facebook as her tool to troll for “lonely” and dumb married and unmarried men. She was married also at the time. She had three suckers on the hook at one time before she landed my idiot! He fell for her “I’m an abused wife, dumsel in distress” story line immediately! That being said, I preened most of my proof directly off of Facebook! Later, once the lovely soul mates were in full affair mode, I used the “nicknames ” they had given each other and discovered a Facebook page they had created together to communicate. Through a series of guesses at passwords my Ex always used, I was able to crack into the private chats they had on that and I was able to ascertain who the other “cheerleaders” we’re and who knew all about these two cheating! I was flabbergasted! But it gave me all I needed to go forward to file divorce and name the OW! It was FREE! No PI needed! They buried themselves with their own words and admissions of “Twu wuv”!
    This is why I suggest people use the same “tool” cheaters use to their advantage. That IT road goes both ways!

    • Yes, the IT road goes both ways. It happened that way with my ex also. The OW was a social media whore and it helped reveal their cheating, big-time. It was more proof than I needed.

  • No matter how hurtful or helpful the author meant to be, her advice to you is spot-on. I absolutely recommend you follow it, if for no other readon than proving her wrong.
    There will be no worse feeling in the world than choosing to trust your H & ignoring it, only to find out months or years from now it was all true, and then some.
    Doubt is for your benefit, not his. Remember that & seek the truth. If what she says is true it will take very little time & effort to verify. And take special note of the ‘teenager’ remarks. Is your H breaking the law as well as his vows?
    You owe it to yourself & your child to find out. Do NOT rely on your H for the truth.

    I’m SO sorry you have this shit (whatever it is) in your life, but you came to the right place. Now do the right thing. Because this *is* YOUR life, not his to fuck around with as he pleases – unless you want to be exactly that saintly ostrich of a wife this woman portrays you to be.

  • I’m so so sorry Ami. I sincerely feel your pain. It really sucks. Cheaters really lie. And they will go on and on about how great and honest they are. It’s really strange and scary. Start going to therapy. Find people to love and support you during this crappy time. Everybody says it will get better (unfortunately I’m in the middle of my own hell, so I’m having to take their word for it but I do believe it.) The one bright side is that you know early on and don’t have to waste years and years on this crap. Hugs.

  • Ami take no prisoners. You need to see the phone, facebook, get all passwords, etc. If you can’t afford a PI, have a friend follow him. I know you must feel like all of this is unnecessary. That hubby loves you, but spend some time reading Chump replies to past posts. Most of us were stunned that our spouse was capable of such deception and betrayal. Living with a spouse like this eats your soul – you won’t recognize yourself in four or five years. This is your one and only life – don’t waste ANY of it with a dirtbag, entitled asshole. Find out the truth and if hes cheating, get out of there with your dignity and self-respect. Wishing you luck.

  • Even if you’re tempted to write this woman off as a loon, the accusation that your husband is fucking teenagers should not be passed off lightly. If he gets busted with a woman that’s underage, you might find yourself in the center of a legal and financial nightmare, become a pariah in your community (because, like OW, people will think that you knew but ignored him) and might even get a visit from CPS since you have an underage child. Trust me, you don’t want to be like Jared Fogle’s newly ex-wife.

    Since you’ve already told your husband about the letter, you should just pretend you believe him, hire a private investigator, install a keylogger into his phone or computer or a voice-activated recorder in his car (or all three).

    Best case scenario, you find out nothing and this woman was a crazy ex.

    Worst case scenario, you find out your husband is a cheater (and possibly a sexual predator), and you’re able to extract yourself and your child from the blast radius before his sexual improprieties destroy you both.

  • Yes, the last paragraph does seem very Chump Nation-ish. Weird.

    What is the reference to having sex with teens? That is really disturbing.

    Do your due diligence on your husband. Stop listening to what he says, and start doing your own research. It’s likely he is cheating.

  • Ami, I went through something very similar. My ex was cheating even when he cried crocodile tears of joy and love on our wedding day in front of our friends and family; he was cheating while he changed our son’s diapers and told me how incredibly lucky he was to have both of us; he was cheating while I packed up and sold my home to move across the country with him so he could stay near his mistress; he was cheating while we had great sex, while I tried everything in my power to make him happy and be an amazing wife. None of the things that I thought mattered to him stopped him from screwing over his devoted wife, his beautiful son, or anyone who dared question his greatness.

    The letter you received sounds fresh and raw, not like and old jilted girlfriend seeking to vent. I agree with ChumpLady, Ami. What makes more logical sense, that an ex came out of nowhere to ruin your happiness? Or that the writer is telling the truth? I had such a difficult time rationalizing the man I thought I knew and loved with the jackass that he really is. I agree that you should gather irrefutable proof and then GTFO or you will be battling this for the REST OF YOUR LIFE.

    I am so, so sorry. But truly, being a single mom and getting rid of my inauthentic ex really isn’t so bad. It’s no piece of cake and hurts like a motherfucker, but think of it like childbirth: lots of emotion leading up to it, excruciating pain, and then relief and a new life. You just peed on a stick and found out you’re expecting a cheater.

  • Ami, you’ve got your hands full with a new baby. If you’re not ready, or don’t have the support to kick him out, I would suggest getting your ducks in a row.
    Start stashing cash (if it turns out he’s not cheating you can buy him a nice anniversary gift with it).
    Gather any paperwork you can find and keep it in a safe place. (It’s good to be organized no matter the reason).
    Don’t confront him yet! Do as much research as possible before you tell him about the letter. If you tell him now he’ll go underground and make it difficult to find any incriminating information.
    If you find evidence and decide to confront him, don’t tell him what evidence you have…. it will be easier to see how he lies and deceives you. This strategy helped me to see my x in action, and stop buying into his lame explanations, which I was prone to doing.
    I’m sorry you’re going through this, and at a time when you should be doing nothing but enjoying your new baby. My heart goes out to you. ((big hug))

  • Hi everyone. Thank you for your insight and personal experiences. I’m currently feel like I’m in a maze and don’t know which way to turn. I love him so much. To those who asked if I’d been the OW before, I don’t think I was. We were never physical but I did fall in love with him while he was with his last GF. She found flirtatious texts between us, that I realize we’re inappropriate. She accused him of lining me up for his next relationship before theirs was over. Part of me feels like this could be karma paying me back.
    He has told me that I make him a better person and that he’s inspired to be better everyday. He allows me to look at his phone whenever I want, I don’t think he would do that if he was hiding something. My mom is staying with us to help out for a while. I can’t even confide in her as I don’t want to change the way she sees him. My family has become his and they love him.

    • I never get use to how incredibly manipulative and covert aggressive these people can be. Using you Ami, as a weapon for her revenge is not only low and evil, it’s just shameless. Unfortunately, doing what you have to do plays right into her game. But like most of us chumps, we had to choose between a rock and a hard place.

      A quote from one of my favorite movies, “Strange game. The only winning move is not to play.”

      “She accused him of lining me up for his next relationship before theirs was over. Part of me feels like this could be karma paying me back.”

      And that is exactly what my ex-wife did to me. Although I didn’t know until after D-day. She secured a relationship with me before leaving her ex-boyfriend. And she re-secure a relationship with that same person before walking out on our marriage. I had no warning and didn’t even know anything was wrong. It’s how these people operate and until it happened to me, I didn’t understand how selfish, entitled and callous someone can be, especially someone who professed their love to you. And if he’s done that to someone else then he’ll do it to you. It’s not a matter of if but when. I found out after my divorce that my ex-wife had a pattern of this all throughout her life.

      Like Tracy said, the Lady Killer thing is not a good sign. And although you love him, truth is that it’s not reciprocated, at least not in the way you want it to be. You and your family loves who he wants you to see, not the real him. I’m sorry for the road you have ahead of you.

      • Michael

        X always secured a relationship before leaving. The dating started and he would see multiple women until he found the the perfect victim. And yet he loved me.

        It’s one thing to never see it coming. Calling your spouse a lady killer? And Ami knows he doesn’t use protection. These are the worst kind Ami. Perhaps your mom knows Ami. Talk to her.

      • WOW!!! Exactly like mine. I found out after DDay that I was the OM. She secured me before leaving her long term boyfriend (said they were 4 months broken up). She lined up a different high school boyfriend before leaving me (after 30 years, and told our daughters that she was divorced 4 months before she started dating again – a lie pattern?). That’s how they roll. This is the basis of my annulment appeal. I’ll know in a few months.

    • Ami-

      Sign into his Google, then click this link: https://www.google.com/maps/timeline

      Go through his whereabouts by the day. There’s a little gear icon at the lower right… click that and click on Show Raw Data.

      Check the internet history.

      Check his Sent folder. A lot of these Cheaters are effing idiots and forget to delete their whore-y emails from there.

      Check the apps on his phone FROM the App section, not the icons displayed when you swipe to the side.

    • Ami, PLEASE confide in someone. Do you have a close girlfriend you can talk to? I did not talk to anyone and over time it ate me up inside.

      For me, there is something off in this OW letter. It could be from an EX gf, a disordered EX gf or someone else. There is anger but no remorse. And, unless you are very aware, you probably wouldn’t be able to figure out if someone was a narcissist, bpd or sociopath until significantly after the fact. (Or maybe I am a slow learner.) Also this line in particular is very scary “While realizing I was the other woman amongst a sea of jail bait, wasn’t pleasant, at least I could get up and dust myself off.”

      From your letter to CL, it is clear that your husband was a cheater in the past. How did he explain having a gf and a fwb at the same time? Listen carefully to his story. Why did he believe that was an OK thing to do?

      We could get into analysis paralysis here….so I agree that a good first step is to hire a private investigator. There is no harm in doing this. It would have given me peace of mind instead of living in limbo and uncertainty for years.

      Hugs

      • We don’t know when/if she cut things off with him. If the OW cut things off with him after finding out he was married, why should she be remorseful? She didn’t do anything wrong if that is the case. He made the choice for her if he withheld that information. I was unknowingly the other woman. I feel no remorse, shame, or guilt about it all cause I didn’t know. I felt angry and hurt that he played me and his fiance.

        • Why would she be remorseful? Read the letter. And by the way Alias, NO ONE makes choices for us. Cheaters leave out information, lie, and are very cunning.
          X would always say. “But you didn’t ask”, as an excuse when he deliberately told lies.

    • You feel like you are in a maze, because you are, and he designed it that way. You feel like this could be your karma coming back to bite you, because you are seeing a pattern. You don’t understand how your best friend could do this to you at the happiest time of your life, because he’s not your best friend. You don’t want to change the way your family sees him, because he’s got image control on lockdown.

      I’m so sorry sweetie, but these are some HUGE red flags. Maybe you do your due diligence and find that it was a big misunderstanding. But you do your due diligence. Because you have a baby and you have to look out for you and your baby. You have to. While your mom is staying with you to help out is the perfect time to do this. You have some backup, if the shit hits the fan, you have help. Put on your big girl panties and get to it, quick. Unless you think your mom is the kind of disordered that would tell you to hold on to a man no matter what, be ready to call on her to help you get out of there if you find out its true. She will prob do anything for her new grandbaby, who is more precious than your husband no matter how much they love him.

      You wrote to CL, so obviously big parts of this are not sitting right with you. If there is anything you glean from the collective wisdom here, it should be TRUST YOUR GUT. Any one of us will tell you we wish we had acted sooner ( well there are a few extra smarties here that did act very quickly, but too many of us held on for love or fear or desperation for waaaaaaaaaay too long).

      TRUST YOUR GUT

    • Ami, two things:

      My Ex was a golden boy. My parents loved him like a son & in fact, this bond as well as my kids drove me to try Reconciliation before finally divorcing him. Family attachments mean nothing to cheaters because they can detach so easily from reality in selfish pursuit of their little fantasy world.
      Know this : My ex actually left our college age daughter stranded worried & waiting on him to pick her up for Thanksgiving while he stopped off for a 2 hour hooker-romp on his drive down.
      Family means no more than marriage vows to a cheater.

      Second, cheaters have secret phones & other devices for their clandestine activities. Please don’t let these things that seem normal on the surface prevent you from looking into a VERY not-normal letter & it’s accusations.

    • I married a snake, with a reputation. In hindsight, I think he was lining me up to replace the OW to his last wife before I had any idea I was anything more to him than a co-worker/friend. He conned me big-time.

      Ami, sounds like your husband just borrowed the old playbook from mine.

      I say borrowed, because the Snake took his playbook back to use on another mark, which is why I left him. He was saying things to a female co-worker he traveled with on occasion that were almost word for word what he was telling me over a quarter of a century ago. Lining her up to replace me, I have no doubt.

      I wish I’d found something sooner. He stole half my life away from me. I can’t get those years back.

      I have my daughter out of it, but he has her snowed into thinking I’m wrong for leaving him and trying to get what I am legally entitled to.

      Do what you have to do, but gather your evidence if the letter isn’t enough, and get out, the sooner the better. Don’t end up with half your life gone, you’re young enough to fix your picker and end up with a decent man.

    • The phone he is letting you view may not be his only device and he has a history/pattern of being a cheater. I’m a little suspicious of the OW letter writer though, I’m pretty sure she knew she was OW (her blatant disdain for you being a clue) but circumstances did not play out in her favor, so she is an “OW scorned” and this is her revenge.

    • They love you more. They love him because he makes you happy. Nothing is more important than you and your baby’s safety. Yiu can go through his phone but snapchat disappears- which may be why OW letter mentioned it. And texts can be deleted. My hubby of the year, wants babies so bad, brings me slippers when I get home awesome husband has two Skype accounts, has an alert which shows when his Facebook or email have been activated so he knows if I have been trying to snoop- but still uses his regular text messaging- that’s where I have gathered more dirt than I want. Just keep looking. I worry for you, but you’re here, which means you’re already bounds ahead of most chumps.

    • “We were never physical but I did fall in love with him while he was with his last GF. She found flirtatious texts between us”

      Maybe I’m wrong, and maybe I’m an awful person for even thinking this, but this sounds like bullshit to me. How many of us here heard this exact thing from our cheaters? That it was just emotional, that it was nothing but flirting, that it was nothing more than text messages. A man with an admitted history of cheating/playing around would wait until he officially broke up with his girlfriend before having sex with a new woman who was “in love with him” and sending him flirtatious texts? No way. I still think Ami was an OW and knew it. She thought her cheating husband, despite his lengthy history of scuzzy behavior, wouldn’t cheat on her because their love is SPECIAL.

      At any rate, I suggest that Ami contact a lawyer and get her ducks in a row, because as they say, leopards don’t change their spots. Get out before you are dumped. And next time, wait until a guy is truly single before starting up a relationship.

      • IMHO…..emotional affairs are cheating too, it’s still an inappropriate relationship that hasn’t crossed over to physical yet. Big difference between being “just friends” and having a relationship with someone who is committed to someone else. We are grown ups here, we know the difference.

      • Good point, Glad. How can you really “fall in love” with someone if you’re not romantically dating (whether there is actual sex or not)?

    • Ami, please don’t choose for your mom. If given the choice, she would choose you over him, I’m sure of it. She is there to support you now — that shows that she cares. I too hid the details from my family for 6 long weeks because I didn’t want them to think less of him should we reconcile. My therapist asked me why I put such a low value on my self. This is YOUR family. They want to support you and will be hurt to know that they didn’t have the opportunity. You don’t need to protect him at the expense of your own self and that of your child. Confide in them. You may need their physical support and their financial support as you work through this with a newborn baby to care for.

      And just in case you were wondering, we did reconcile (long story not for today’s thread). Apologizing to my entire family was part of my husband’s acts of atonement. Do they treat him differently? Yes for a while they did. Now it is basically the same on the surface, but there remains a bit of coolness there between them and him. When he remarks about it now, I ask him how he would feel about a man who treated his daughters the way he treated me and he backs off right away. Actions have consequences and a grown up person will deal with the consequences of his actions.

  • I don’t know. This letter is way to long, detailed, and sympathetic. If I were a ‘scorned’ OW, I would probably write a letter and stick to the facts, i.e. The guy you married is a cheating sob. I had sex with your husband in his truck and at my place. Dump the POS. Done.
    I don’t think I’d write out a page and a half letter and then advise you on what to do. It just doesn’t make sense…
    Otherwise, I would heed the advise given above. Investigate in stealth mode. Your husband already knows about the letter, so you need to make him think everything has been smoothed over. BUT – I would certainly check into his doings for a little while to see if it may be true. Until you find proof, give him the benefit of the doubt. Someone may be just playing a very nasty trick on him (maybe a former friend?) in order to destroy him for some reason. It wouldn’t be fair to him if he were innocent and just because some asshole has a vendeta against him, it shouldn’t ruin your marriage. I know what it is like to be blamed for something I never did and be punished for it for 15 years.

    • I’m thinking her mom sent the letter. I sat and watched my daughter being abused by her x after her child was born and didn’t feel as if I should interfere. She was happy and just had a child and I was staying with them. He was demeaning, selfish, and controlling.
      Talk to your MOM. She’s there supporting you. Show her the letter.

      • Ami – So many good pieces of advice here, but are you ready to apply any of it?

        I am so very sorry that you have to face all this with a newborn. I agree with donna, I would recommend you talk to your Mom, if your husband is a cheater, it is best to know this early.

        One clear test to investigate who your husband really is is around finances and a post-nup agreement. You have only been married 5 months and have a newborn, this is a perfect time for some grown-up financial talk and changes to test his maturity and how reciprocal your relationship really is.

        Did you work while pregnant? Will you go back to work after 6 weeks or were you counting on becoming a SAHM? It might be heartbreaking to leave your little on in a daycare after 6 weeks, but I would strongly recommend that you do everything possible to go to work full-time ASAP.

        While your mom is there with you, I would suggest you sit down with her and make/update a household budget with all costs, especially growing baby-related costs, and a savings budget. Then look at your income and his, and figure out a percentage you each will wire to a separate checking account you both contribute to fairly to run your household while keeping your financial independence.

        If you are a SAHM, then negotiate with him to have your own separate savings account for part of the household income to become your own personal money in exchange for the household CEO job you are doing.

        If you work, then keep the additional money in your own account, and make sure to not use that money for anything but YOURSELF. Do not use that money for your baby, anything for the baby has to come from the household budget.

        In addition to this, I would recommend that you require a post-nup with no sunset period and an iron-clad get-him-through-the-wallet adultery clause for both of you to stay accountable.

        If any of these financial steps are dismissed by your husband as unnecessary, or a proof you don’t trust him, that is proof that you are with an immature selfish husband. At that point, whether he is cheating or not is irrelevant, if you get evidence that he cannot move towards a reciprocal financial relationship a month after welcoming a baby with you, then GTFO and file for divorce asap!

    • Good points. I noticed that the other woman’s letter uses a surprising number of Chump Lady phrases. Seems like it could have been written by someone who has visited this blog before.

  • Ami, you mention that you’ve recently married, moved, and had a child. Your life is greatly in flux. Maybe your husband has participated in all this change as a way to cut ties with a past he has outgrown. Maybe he is just setting up a new hunting ground.

    One thing that worries me about all the changes in your life is that you might be quite isolated. (I know your mom is there now, but I imagine that is a short term arrangement). Make sure to sustain your family relationships, old female friendships, and try (as much as you can with a newborn) to establish friends in your new community. Isolating a “mark” is a typical strategy for con-artists of all sorts.

    Who manages the finances in your household? If it isn’t you, it is time to change that. You should know what he makes and where his paycheck goes. Do you know how many credit cards he carries and do you see the monthly bill for each? If not, it is time to start. Does he spend more than a hundred dollars a month in cash? If so, then he has enough on hand to keep a second cell phone or treat his marks to a coffee after sleeping with them in his truck. I’d say that hiring a PI is a few steps down the road. There is a lot you can do yourself to understand where he is spending his time and money.

    For now, you probably shouldn’t be asking many questions. He’s on alert, and you are unlikely to catch him at anything. But six months down the road, things will be different. You can be expertly informed on where his time and money should be going, and if he’s a cheater, his guard will be down.

    Like many other posters, I’m not optimistic about your situation, but if he’s as predatory as the letter suggests, I suspect you will uncover hard evidence within the year if you choose to look for it.

    And congratulations on your baby! I hope that part of your life, at least, is bringing you joy.

    • What you asked about finances makes me sick to my stomach. During the purchase of our house I gave him power of attorney on a things regarding the property. I didn’t even question it.

      • Ami, POA is like reverting to a parent/child relationship where you have legally agreed that they can make all financial and medical decisions for you – FOREVER. So, for example you could be POA for your grandmother in case she has dementia and can’t understand her bills, etc.

        • The POA can be removed easily I believe. Ami when he’s not home look for all doccuments you signed and make copies for yourself.

        • Where I live, POA is a legal document. This means you have signed it and had it witnessed. This does not mean you verbally said “OK, baby”.

          I have POA for an elderly parent. He gave his permission. We did this in case he is incapacitated in some way. When it is enacted — this means I become his legal guardian because he can’t make decisions for himself. I can do what I feel is right for his finances and health. He has no legal rights because he has already agreed to this. So, and I am reaching here, if I felt it was in his best interest I could have him institutionalized. It is very difficult to have POA revoked.

          I know of a woman would had her spouse institutionalized when he was in ill health. POA was enacted. Once he was better, he had no rights because he had been declared unfit.

          We also have something called a living will — but this is not the same thing.

          Go and see a lawyer. Take your paperwork.

          • It is not hard to revoke a power of attorney, if indeed it is still active. It isnt that uncommon, or suspicious in real estate transactions. All it means is that only one of you needs to appear at the real estate signing, rather than both. If the original power of attorney specified this ( as it should have) now that the transaction is complete the power of attorney is already void. If you signed a general power, all you need to do is sign a revokation, have it notarized and deliver it to the bank that holds the mortgage. Moving forward is thinking of a “durable” power of attorney which is much broader.

      • Get that Power of Attorney thing fixed like pronto. Talk to an attorney and get that situation fixed. He has you by short hairs with that one. He can take out second mortgages without your knowledge and approval. Also you can go on line and look at the tax records and see if you are no the deed. If you are not…you are dealing with a financial snake as well as possibly a financial predator. If it looks like a duck… time to get your ducks lined up. Sorry you are having to go through this…We have your back.

        • RMOB

          I agree! I always thought of POA in terms of the elderly. Ami, if it is in fact on your home run and run fast. Check into an annulment with an attorney. Gather ALL financial doccuments.
          There are too many red flags here. And I’ve never heard of anyone requesting a POA for your home. Cancell your name from ALL shared accounts. Moving you away from friends and family is a typical narc move to isolate you. What is the age difference between the two of you? Is he quite a bit older?

      • Not good. Why on earth would he need a Power of Attorney? You’re not overseas or incapacitated, right? I wonder if he has taken out a second mortgage or used the home for collateral. Get an attorney and then head to the Town Clerk’s office to check the deed, liens, etc.

      • The good thing here is, you can most likely rescind the POA without his participation/knowledge. Definitely take care of this asap

      • My husband refused to put my name on the house as well. You still have legal rights. Also, if things don’t work out, you likely will not want to be stiffed with the mortgage.

        Ami, this guy is bad news. I am suspicious of any person who singularly controls an asset such as a house; it is a potential sign of economic abuse. Please start collect and copy all financial documents (including assets) and store them in a safe place he can’t access.

        (Also, where there is a will, there is a way. You mentioned somewhere he is showing you his phone to prove his honesty. So what. There is Google Voice, Skype, disposable cell phones, alternate email accounts, etc. This tells you zilch.)

        • There are also apps designed to hide calls/texts – Whatsapp and several others. Google “apps that can hide texts or calls” You’ll be surprised how easy it is to get away with non traceable communication these days! Even when searching the device used for the communication!

          • *my advice to google is meant for Ami* (and anyone else of course.. seems like you, Dr., are too familiar with the ease-of-sleaze already, unfortunately.

  • Ami, I got anonymous “tip” when my kids were young too, in the form of a phone call. Unfortunately the person didn’t give me much detail that I could follow up on. Just like you, I was overwhelmed with anxiety and fear (and anger). My husband came home especially late that night, and I was sitting up exhausted, waiting on him. I screamed at him when he walked in the door, and he yelled right back at me for yelling at him. He was so overpowering in his indignation that I was overwhelmed, then felt guilty for suspecting him. He traveled all the time for “work,” and it wasn’t unusual for him to come in at 2 am. It’s just this particular time I’d heard almost nothing from him while he was on his trip. He was also known as a “ladies man” before we married.

    Anyway, what I’m trying to say is my husband made me feel stupid for questioning this phone call. He explained it away by telling me it was a jealous coworker that was out to get to him. I wanted so much to believe him, I had two little kids that were very sick and wasn’t able to work at the time. I didn’t know how I’d ever be able to support them.

    But looking back, I’m pretty sure that caller was telling the truth. I wish he’d given me more details. If I were you I’d say nothing to your husband because he’ll come up with a plausible explanation. Cheaters are such good liars. Don’t follow him around yourself either, you don’t need that stress while you’re caring for a baby. Hire a private investigator, give him the letter, and ask him to find out for you. If it’s true the investigator will give you hard evidence and you can make a decision.

    I’m so sorry you’re going through this. There’s nothing worse than being married to someone you don’t trust.

  • “I don’t feel sorry for you, I feel sorry for the other women he lies too while you enable him.” I’m sorry but…FUCK YOU OW! You are a piece of total garbage. Just so you know, he picked you because you were easy, you were there, you said yes. That’s it. And I DON’T feel sorry for you, you piece of shit. I feel sorry for Ami and that poor innocent little child. Congratulations OW for helping to destroy that family. You will get what’s coming to you. Can’t wait!

  • Not all women are scorned exes.This is similar to my current dilemma,except we have a child together.I was hoping it would strengthen the relationship but after four years and another child (with someone other than his wife)I gave up.I tried co-parenting to no avail.He only wants to argue and make up reasons as to why he’s stop communicating with our child.I do believe if the OW had any proof of this affair she should have included it.I know I have and will if I ever decide to let her know.

    • Let the wife know, and give her the details she needs to get a solid settlement from the cheater. (oh–and apologize to her, if you are sincere)

      • Mich
        So your not a scorned EX? As in scorned OW who was having an affair and thought having a child with him would seal the deal making the relationship stronger? After four sneaky years?
        If that’s the story what the fuck are you doing here? This site is not for OW. It’s about leaving a cheater and gaining a life. Its not for OW who ruin LIVES. I know it’s a catch 22 when you find out your not so SPECIAL. Fuck off.

  • I am so sorry Ami. You have to know that people don’t send crazy letters like this for no reason. There is a reason. I got a letter like this from the OW but in my case she pretended to be an outside party “helping” me realize the truth. The letter wasn’t signed. I will never forget the feeling in my stomach. It was also very scary to receive a letter that wasn’t signed. I didn’t mention it to my EX and within another week I got a second letter. I knew she wouldn’t give up. I got four letters before I said anything to my EX. Guess what? The letters stopped. How did the person writing the letters know that I did or did not say anything? Hmmmm.

    I agree with CL, these OW know their place. They know the guy is married. I got hateful letters from two OW. In both cases, it was when my EX ended that relationship. I can’t help but read a letter like this and think – what kind of horrible, vile person does this? She is being as mean as she can to you and yet you don’t know this person at all. You have done nothing to them. Oh, but wait, in their eyes you have. You won the pick me dance. You didn’t even know you were playing. I’m sure it is very sad for these women and how special that they feel to attract a married man, who can’t resist them over their commitments to their wives, to find out that the man never valued them, that they were indeed a side fuck and nothing more. They already have the lowest self-esteem and, ouch, they just got the treatment that they “deserved”.

    By the way, thanks CL for posting this letter. It brought up a lot of painful memories but made me realize just how far I have come. In my life now, I don’t have crazy people that I don’t know sending me hate mail.

  • Ami, listen to CL and CN…you don’t want to live your life always looking over your shoulder. It is a horrible waste of time and energy and what will be a wonderful life without a cheating liar. I know, all of us here know what that is like. The longer it goes on the harder it is to climb out of that hole. Your dignity and self esteem become non existent and joy in life is hard to find. In the end of my 36 year union with satan it was all I could do to just breathe…

    …CN is also correct about how dangerous these disordered narcs can be so be very careful and do have an exit strategy in place. Be safe! satan became physically abusive once I had seen his super secret cell phone…it is unbelievable when the mask comes off…realizing you are living with a nightmare is soul shattering…

    Take care Ami. You are worth more than that.

  • I was in a similar situation as you newly married with a brand new baby — 25 years ago before cell phones and internet. (My then husband, too, was quite the ladies man before we married, but I believed I was his one true love. He had chosen me over all the others!!) We moved to his hometown to begin our life together.

    In the middle of the night shortly after I had given birth to our first child, a woman called our home. The phone woke me up. A very distraught woman asked for my husband by name and refused to tell me who she was or why she was calling. Quite a shock!! He, however, quickly told her not to call again and he explained her away as being a crazy ex-girlfriend who was jealous. She called many times, always in the middle of the night, over the following months. Husband stuck with his story and I had our phone number changed and unlisted.

    I made the mistake of believing his story. I was in a new town and didn’t have any close friends there to confide in.

    I stayed with him for 23 years and believed many many lies. I had another child with him, too. When our first-born was 16 I discovered my husband’s stash of porn and emails to multiple women on our computer. He lied and denied having any physical relationships. Promised he would stop and swore that he loved me. For another 3 years I foolishly believed the man with whom I had been building a future.

    One day while scrutinizing the cell phone bill online, I discovered many late night calls and texts had been occurring on his phone… I confronted him and again he lied. It was then that I finally realized my future was nothing but an illusion. I divorced him and guess who was the first person he ran to?? That “crazy ex-girlfriend” from 2 decades earlier.

    Proceed with caution, Ami. Leopards do not change their spots.

  • Ami, my sympathies on getting a letter like this, it must be so painful, when you’ve just started your family and are so in love. Do you see a counselor? I would look for a therapist right now, so you have the help you need. And, if you don’t like the therapist, keep trying til you find a good one, someone who is on your side.
    Also, sorry, but I would hire a PI, and maybe put a VAR in his truck, because you already know- he LOVES the ladies. He very well may be cheating. Better go into Mama Bear mode, and find out pronto! You have some good things going for you (he has a career, you are young) so stay strong and proud, and find out if you’re being played before something worse happens. Good luck, and love to you and your baby!

  • It would be so easy to discount this advice since this newly scorned OW is an absolute wingnut and a condescending twatwaffle to boot!

    Here’s the thing though. I married the same guy Ami. He was a ‘player’ (or slut as I refer to him now). He had one serious relationship before me and he cheated on her because the sad sausage didn’t like the decrease in kibbles once she started college. He played around some more and then set his sights on me. Soon after we were a couple his best friend called him out for hitting on his girlfriend while we were supposedly dating. Ex made it out like she was a crazy bitch and told his best friend that. His best friend pretty much had nothing to do with him after that. I had one red flag after another waving in my face and I ignored all of them and believed I was special enough to change his slutty ways.

    Cut to 27 years later and I divorced him because he cheated on me. That happened in year 24 but I wasted more of my precious life with him and chased unicorns around for three years. I found chump lady and thankfully that all changed.

    Don’t tell him what you know. Get tested for STDs. I know you want to believe him but he will lie. That’s what they do-It’s almost like a Geico commercial that could write itself. Get your ducks in a row and if you confirm that he’s a cheater then do the best thing you can for you and your baby: leave. Even the disordered apparently can dispense decent advice. Whether it comes straight from her or she poached it from somewhere else (like chump lady) this whackadoo other woman is not completely off base when she isn’t being a condescending twatwaffle. What can I tell you-it’s kind of what they do too.

    Regardless, take chump lady’s advice. Best of luck to you.

  • Hi Ami–

    Look, I can’t tell if your husband is cheating, but I think you should proceed with caution.

    First, he knows about the letter, but has denied its charges. My advice? Go along with him! If he is a cheater, he’s got enough of an ego to think that he can make you believe anything. The goal here is to keep him from feeling threatened. If he is a cheater, and if he does feel threatened, he’ll take more care to hide his tracks.

    Second, spend a bit of time stalking him on the internet. You’ve received some really good tips here. Also, check your bank accounts and credit statements. Look for charges that seem odd. If you find anything, say nothing! This is very hard to do, but if there is evidence that he’s cheating, then you need to go into survival mode for you and your baby.

    Third, set up an account in your own name that he doesn’t have access to. If you have only joint credit cards, apply for one in your own name, just to establish a credit history. Pay off the charges so that you have a track record of timely payments.

    Fourth, use the account you established to buy an inexpensive tracking device. Personally, the ones that are wired into the car are better than the ones that attach via magnets. You might need to borrow the car to have a mechanic put the tracker in, if you aren’t comfortable doing so. Install a keylogger on his computer.

    If you find out something fishy, then go see a lawyer–not the lawyer whom you used for power of attorney! Go check Super Lawyers if you don’t know a good family practice attorney in your area. When you go to the attorney, explain the POA. Ask if you’re in a fault or a no-fault state. Find out your rights. If you have a separation, does he have to pay temporary spousal maintenance? What is child support like?

    In the meantime, start building a cash fund. Others have shown you how to do this. The goal here is to have enough to act as a small emergency fund. You can pay your lawyer out of it, or you can use it as a down payment.

    And if it turns out that the letter was written by some vindictive, disordered ex-girlfriend who’s out to slander your husband’s good character? Well, in that case, you’ll still have started to establish your own credit, and have a ready fund for emergencies!

    Best of luck!

    • KB, that is all excellent advice. It’s so important to have good credit. Thankfully my mother drilled into my head to always have a card in my own name and my own credit account. It turned out that my credit rating was actually better than my husband’s. It made purchasing a house after the divorce much easier since my credit was very good.

  • Sigh. When you hear hoofbeats, it’s probably not a unicorn…We are all so sorry, but all we hear is an ass.

  • Ami, I can’t improve on what the others have said, so I’m just going to second (and third) the advice to find out more and be prepared to protect yourself. And it’s always a good idea, no matter the situation, to know everything about your marital finances. So if you don’t already know, I would say start educating yourself pronto. Take care of yourself. I’m rooting for you. Oh and BTW, Tracy — if it looks like a fuck and quacks like a fuck? I read that to my co-worker and she almost choked on her yogurt. You have got a sublime way with words!

  • First time poster here. I come here every day, as I was chumped by my ex-husband, and left after D-Day number two over a 1.5 years ago. I only found CN a few months ago, and am so grateful. The support on this site has been wonderful. Although, there weren’t any kids involved, leaving was the hardest decision I have ever made, but it was the right one for me. I wanted to believe him after I discovered the first affair. I spackled and listened to his bullshit like a lot of us here, but once I caught him the second time, I knew I could never trust him again. His character was completely exposed.

    That being said, right before I met my ex-husband, I was once an OW for a short time, completely unbeknownst to me! Not all OW know at first or could reasonably know immediately. I actually do feel sorry for women who are duped into being OW, but I would have to suspend disbelief if someone told me that they didn’t realize for many months or years!

    Ami-this letter rings really true to me. I won’t get into all the gory details, but I met this guy at a bar. He traveled to my city for work one to two nights a week. He told me he had never been married (didn’t wear a ring of course). At first, things were casual, and I had no reason to question him. I started to notice that things weren’t adding up though, because he didn’t use social media at all. It seemed odd that he didn’t even have a LinkedIn account, especially considering the business he was in. About 1.5 months in, in a serendipitous turn of events (or maybe by divine intervention), my friend actually discovered that his real last name was not the one he had given me. It was completely by chance, and I may have dated him a little longer had it not happened, or if I was a less curious person. I was trusting, and although there were a few red flags, but I was also a spackler.

    Once we found his real last name, the floodgates opened, and I found him all over social media. Not only had he lied about his last name, but he did not live in the city he claimed to, and was married with children! I confronted him in a blind rage, and he actually admitted that his phone was a burner phone, and not his work phone like he had claimed. I was shocked he even admitted that, but I am sure it was just the tip of the iceberg. He begged me not to tell his wife, saying she would divorce him.

    Needless to say, I contacted his wife and told her everything. She was extremely thankful at first, but she contacted me and asked me questions two more times after our initial 3 hour conversation. At one point, I think that she was overwhelmed, and abruptly cut off our conversation. She also defended his behavior a few times, which was surreal to me. From what I have gleaned from social media, they are still together.

    It isn’t fair, but in the end, while I felt rage towards him, I felt angry towards her too. It isn’t rational, but at the time, I felt that he had wronged us both, and that she was the only one who could “punish” him. After it became clear that she had no intention of doing so, although I still felt really bad for her for being saddled with that pig, I admit that there were times I was so angry about being duped that I blamed her too. In my mind it was as if once I showed her how much of a misogynistic predator, liar, gaslighter and sociopath her husband was, I expected her to at least make him feel some consequences. It isn’t rational, but that was how I felt at the time. Having lived if from the other side, WHOA, do I get where she was coming from now. My main point is that although this letter is cruel as hell, and her anger is misdirected, I definitely think the sender of the letter is an OW.

    Ami, as others have said, please hire a PI if you have the money, get checked for STD’s, sort out your finances, and run to an attorney’s office. You must take care of yourself and your child first and foremost. The way your husband is described in this letter sounds extremely familiar to my serial cheating POS ex, and people like him are extremely comfortable with living double lives. It is shocking to those of us that are honest and have integrity, but that is why they are so successful at duping us! We may have seen it coming somewhat, but it was foggy out, so the signals weren’t that clear.

    • Thank you for being here. I am pretty certain being a chump sets you up as the perfect OW in the dating scene for duplicitous narcs like this. There’s no shame in what happened for you. You did it all right. What a dick bag. I’m so glad you’re here.

      • Thank you for your kind words creativerational. Your commentary is always really insightful! I appreciate how welcoming and supportive everyone here is, and I am so sorry for what you are going through. It does get better slowly. I promise.

        Too bad it took two narcs to help “fix my picker,” as CL says, but I guess that is better than 3 narcs doing the job. It is so hard to explain to people that have not been duped/betrayed just how traumatizing it is, and that is why CL and CN are so important. I mean, I seriously think CL and CN are performing a public service by publishing and commenting! 🙂

  • This isn’t a OW letting the wife know that she’s been cheated on, or rather it isn’t -JUST- the OW letting the wife know. The letter struck me as vindictive, nasty, and even cruel. This person seems bitterly angry–perhaps that she has lost the pick-me dance to a wife who didn’t know she was even in the contest. And possibly a particularly nasty triangulation to blow up the marriage and “win” the husband back or to win another chance at him if he wasn’t cheating.

    At this point, I can’t say if the husband is a cheater. But I know that the letter writer has problems and Ami needs to be wary of the letter writer as well while she investigates her husband.

    • Mouse-while I don’t disagree with you regarding how nasty the letter is, I think it makes it less likely that it’s fake. Maybe the OW knew, and that is why she is angry, or maybe she is just hurt and lashing out. I think her letter is awful, and she should be ashamed of what she said, but I still give it a lot of credence.

      In my case, I would not have had ANY proof except texts to and from a “burner” phone, which would have meant nothing. The only “proof” I had was that he got sloppy or was feeling confident and left me a voicemail message towards the end.

      When I hear someone say “ladies man.” or “he has a way with the ladies,” my first thought is secretive, cheating cad. It doesn’t bode well.

      • Blerg, I hadn’t seen your reply at the time I wrote mine. The letter is awful, but after reading your post from your perspective I can see that it is also lashing out, and you are probably right–it is too precise. Credence indeed.

  • I am so sorry you are having to deal with this, especially now. It must be distressing and disorienting, not knowing whether it’s true or not. The fact is, it either is or it isn’t – there are no shades of grey. He’s either the person you thought you married, or a person you never knew. You owe it to yourself and your child to find the truth.

    You are getting good advice from those who have suffered at the hands of some dishonest, conniving and selfish people, and have paid a very high price for learning hard life lessons. I hope you don’t look at what is said here as coming from bitter people who have been chumped and now see cheating in everyone. That has not been my experience. My take is that they are just, unfortunately, experts in their field. I give due weight to what they say.

    I cannot tell you how it feels to find out after 20 years that you have invested the most precious thing you have – the days of your life – in a person who carried on a secret life with multiple long and short term partners for at least 18 of those years – all the while looking you in the eye and swearing to you on the life of your children that it’s not true. It is debilitating and traumatizing beyond description to find out you were used in such a way, but so much worse when you find out so late in life that it’s hard to start over.

    Amy, I don’t know if your husband is cheating, but it certainly looks like it. If there is anything additional I would tell someone in your position it is that you have absolutely no concept of how truthful and believable a cheater can appear when they are lying straight to your face. It is truly unreal. Don’t trust yourself to be able to see through it. You won’t.

    • So true, JK. My ex-husband looked me straight in the eyes and lied to me. It was unreal. After everything we had been through together, he absolutely had no hesitation to lie in my face. Believe only what they DO not what they SAY.

  • I would probably guess if she took an honest look at her marriage and what her gut is telling her, she will have her answer. The gut check is accurate as it gets. We chumps are good at denial and ignoring things. I say innocent until proven guilty but listen and pay attention. Cheaters are not really that good at hiding things from us, we just dont want to see the truth.

    • Absolutely!!! Listen to your instincts. I’m an Oprah fan, and there’s something that she said that I try to remember. She said that we need to listen to the whispers, the little voices inside us, even if it is a fleeting voice before we get knocked up aside our head. Sometimes it’s hard to listen to that whisper, but we need to for our own well-being. Here’s a link to Oprah talking about listening to the whispers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki6X6iPeGig

  • I don’t think the stat has come up in this thread yet, but its a common observation that most male serial cheaters begin when their wife is pregnant or has small children. It’s also very typical for them to control/hide finances and maneuver their spouses into isolated living situations. Ami, all things that you mentioned in your letter and comments, so MORE red flags….

    Ugh, sweetie, please continue to check in on the forums here and let us know how things are going.

    • My best guess is that he started cheating during my second pregnancy…I cant prove it but I think its so

      • Unicorn no more. Falling in a crotch is more like it. I refuse to call this cheater bullshit love. It’s an easy commitment free fuck. Always.

  • Totally agree here. I just got the 411 on the Atomic Bomd that in all likelihood will be coming my way shortly from the Friends with Bennifts. Long story short stbxh was working and living overseas, in a”friend from work” apartment. There have been problems for a while, and due to the financial strain of maintaing two living situations, he has “sparkled” the situation with seeking a transfer back to the US, so we can resolve our issues. Low and behold he arrives back the night before Thanksging, with nothing but his briefcase, no suitcase. When guestioned he says airline lost his bag.OK. Over holiday weekend no attempts to contact airline and see if it has been found and can be picked up or delivered. Drum Roll.

    He fesses up on Sunday evening that when he returned to the overseas apartment the day he was leaving (where he was only “renting a room”) the locks were changed and he could not retrieve his belongs. OW-BFF went ape shit that he was going back to The US. I am then told that she is a psychopath, and a typical hard drinking Russian that wil go to no lengths to distory him, and that I and my daughter should not believe anything she may send to us via email, outline of events they shared, photos etc. Really.

  • …”Oh, and turns out he’s married, with a kid!!!”…
    …”I know my tone has been condescending and mean-spirited, but that’s because I’m pissed. I was lied to and the kicker is he will likely not be held accountable at all. Maybe this will inspire you to pull your head out of the sand, but I truly doubt it. Guys like this get away with this kind of shit all the time because they marry pushovers. I don’t feel sorry for you, I feel sorry for the other women he lies too while you enable him.”…

    ^^^That’s some kind of twisted letter.^^^ Two thoughts:

    1. -sounds like a recent discovery by a crazed OW (could be an old flame or someone completely new and snowed over).

    2. -sounds like a revenge letter aimed at your husband using you (Ami) as the poison arrow.

    My bet is hubby may be on his own best image spackling behavior for a while, too. –Until next time. If he texted you while in a relationship, I’d be wondering what else he’s capable of doing.

    I understand not wanting to rush to judgement but re: your Mom – ask yourself this, in your mom’s heart, who is important? My bet is on you. Seems it is an awful lot to hold in to ‘protect an image of perfection’ which has been leveled a blow of doubt. That’s kind of the Ivory Tower of isolation.

    If you can’t share it with mom right now, how about a trusted friend? I could never have navigated the questions and feelings of betrayal on my own – needed my peeps, and found CL & CN…

    Know this – you are no push over because you wrote Chump Lady – IMO. Good for you – it takes strength to ask for insight.

  • After I read all this I went to a few free dating sites and looked up a username he has used for different things in the past, his first name and madeup last name. I found a profile on one of them. It says he hasn’t logged on in a year…we were living with each other for almost two years then! Some of his profile pics are ones I took when he took me home to meat his family!
    Someone mentioned that he may have wanted to move to leave his past ways behind him. Maybe he was doing something before? Maybe he wants to start our family life fresh?
    I worry about the former FWB, she really hung him out to dry in his last relationship. He says he wasn’t guilty of the things she said back then. Maybe he saw her again or talked to her before we moved and she knows we got married and had a baby and she’s trying to mess with him? I met her once before we dated. He said she was the longest relationship he’d had with a girl at that point but they never really dated because she wouldn’t put up with his shit.
    How does this person know where I live?

    • Oh Ami, I’m so sorry. But I’m glad you found us. You can see how quickly those of us here jump in to try to help you, because we’ve been there. We know exactly how you feel. It sucks and it’s so jarring. And this is the WORST timing for you. It’s so hard for people to learn from the mistakes of their friends instead of making those mistakes themselves, but I beg of you, please do the hard work of splitting up with him now. It will be so much better for you and your child in the long run. I doubt that any of us started out as cynical people won’t don’t “believe in love” or anything like that, and most of us are still not that way. We’ve just given our cheaters second, third, and sometimes 49th chances, and we see how it all turns out in the end. Many of us wish we had the opportunity to find out and get out as early on as you do. Please don’t squander this wonderful opportunity, even if it came from a crappy letter like the one you got.

      I was totally the other woman when I met my ex, and I had no idea. He told lots of lies, and used the fact that his ex wasn’t into social media to hide that she even still existed in his life. I felt like an idiot when I had the realization that they HAD still been together when he started things up with me. And of course, he did the same thing to me years later (and let’s face it, during and throughout our relationship probably). Now that I’ve known him for many years, I can see that he always lines up relationships way in advance of dumping the current one. He always has an escape hatch, and it’s all part of his plan. I know you want to believe, and you want to think you’ll be the one that’s important enough for him to stop. The truth is, you ARE important. Just not to him. Please don’t let that stop you from living an awesome life. I know you feel that you’ve invested too much time and energy in him to quit now, but he quit on you long ago. If you don’t ditch him now, you’ll be kicking yourself in another 5 or 10 years. Get rid of him, and don’t let your child see you accepting this kind of abuse as normal.

    • Ami – How does the OW know where you live? Good Q – Omg, I worked with a gal who in a fit of jealousy and doubt followed her BF around herself.

      If the OW really didn’t know about you, marriage, baby, thought she was the only one, she definitely did some research to find out otherwise. Maybe work related? At the Gym related? Old flame from school? Internet hook up?

      Doesn’t sound like your husband answered you with too many specifics…

      I would copy this letter and give it to someone you trust.

    • Just another thought… Your husband has a FB account. Who are his friends there? It was my experience that my ex had many female friends (back then MySpace was the thing before FB). He was chatting up lots of women and sending private messages. Also check your computer’s history. My ex was in the habit of clearing it to hide his tracks. He got careless about deleting it an that’s how I discovered his extra email account. Check phone records online. They keep track of # of texts sent and received, time, date, length, and phone #’s… You can google your husband’s name and your name to see what information is online about you.

      • Do not alert him to your sleuthing. If he is not being truthful with you, he will be more diligent about hiding any shady activities if he knows you are watching… Good luck!!

    • Ami, not to be nosy, but how financially dependent are you on him? Or is he in any way financially dependent on you? I would also question how much each of you contributed to the down payment on your home, would you stand to lose more if it went into foreclosure? The POA is disturbing and for him to even come up with that lame brained idea would appear to be some sort of scheme or scam in my book. Let him think that you believe his story and work on getting to the bottom of this mess.

    • Ami, you said he used photos that YOU took on his dating site profile?!? Photos you took when you went to meet his family? He came home and loaded those on a dating site so he could troll for other women?

      That’s some pretty strong evidence that he’s a cheater.

      • Exactly. Ami, you just learned that he was active on dating profiles when you were in a committed relationship with him. He’s a cheater. I’m sorry, you probably just discovered the tip of the iceberg.

        I’ll tell you another bad sign — this FWB who said “bad things” about him. Gee, a lot of people unfairly malign him, huh? The ex-GF, the FWB — what “shit” of his did she not want to put up with?

        That whole everyone else is to blame thing and I’m a misunderstood sad sausage is a really bad sign.

        • I totally agree. The denial, blameshifting, and rage at your distrust of him, Ami, will commence in 10, 9, 8, 7……

      • Just remember Ami to keep calm and keep this on the down low, while you get ready. Anger is later. Today is quiet burning rage that fuels your plans. Inside. the fury is ok later when you have him in a corner with more evidence and lots of guilt, so you end up with a good secure agreement.

        You’re asking yourself if he’s changed, and is trying to start fresh- but how is it fresh if he’s just putting more lies on top of lies he told to get you here.

        Had he said ‘baby momma, I was a terrible douche, but now we are married and I want to do right. I’m going to get rid of my phone and get an amazing job and we are going to live next door to your parents and I’m gonna wear an ankle bracelet so you know where I am, and you will have the only computer in the house and the history never deletes… Because I want you to trust me and be near your support system’ maybe then I would think he was paying penance. Right now he’s a cake eater- baby momma and baby for pristine image management … Doing God knows what elsewhere. What matters is you’re alone and you don’t know either.

    • Ami, you keep mentioning the FWB. Have you looked at the postmark on the letter envelope?

  • Ami,

    I’m so sorry you got this letter. I had to find OW’s letter when I was 8-mo pregnant. I’m sure she was threatened by the baby. It was awful. This ‘should’ be the “best” time of your life.

    This “OW” is a horrid, scored person. Tracy is right—-no chump would write such a vitriolic letter to another chump. She probably knew about you and got pissed that your husband wouldn’t give her more of a commitment, or “kibbles.” She is clearly character disordered, not just a shitty human being. She is selfish and could care less about the impact this could have on you and your baby (more on that later). But no one would go out of their way to write such a terrible letter–not with so many details–unless they were telling the truth about cheating with him. And no ex-girlfriend would do this, especially after so much time. I agree that the only motivation to hurt a woman who just gave birth would be to hurt your husband.

    About your husband: Is he a narcissist? Charming guy? Averse to criticism? Have defensiveness or reactive anger? Is he controlling? Look up narcissism, if you’re not familiar. While infidelity is a narcissistic act, the NPD’s seem to do it more. There is also a high correlation btw promiscuity before marriage and later infidelity. Cheating happens more in the military, too.

    Be smart. Hire a PI and don’t let on that you suspect anything. Borrow the money if you have to, but do it. Otherwise, you will stay with him and constantly wonder about his actions. You can also check out “Spy” stores online. They have magnetic GPS tracking devices you can place under his truck and you can log in to check out his travel history. You can also install something into his cell phone to capture text messages, and there’s something you can get for his computer to monitor his key strokes. Then there are voice activated audio recording devices you can place under the seat of his truck. Just some suggestions.

    I thought my ex was the “love of my life” and had zero idea he was cheating with OW. I was the happiest I’d ever been in my life up until that time, which made the fall that much harder since I never would have thought in a million years he could do such a thing. Do not listen to what your husband tells you. Instead, listen to your “gut.” I knew something was wrong, but him cheating wasn’t even in my option pool at the time. You have a leg up by getting this letter, sad though it may be.

    This is not the end of your story. You will move forward because you have a child now. It is true that your baby will either choose a partner who cheats on them or become a cheater if you stay with a cheating spouse. The shit runs in families. Break the cycle, as painful as it is, and give your baby the chance to have a different relationship template in life.

    If a man cheats during your pregnancy, he is the lowest of the low. If your husband cheated, he put you–and your baby– at risk for STDs (PLEASE get tested). You know what can happen to a child that contracts Herpes during pregnancy? It’s not good. Let alone, bacterial vaginosis, which is much more common, and can kill your baby in utero. No, some things change the fabric of a relationship forever.

    If your spouse has had such flagrant disregard for the life you’ve built together, than surely you and that gorgeous baby of yours deserve better. Follow the advice from everyone. Get the info you need, and take steps to protect yourself. Focus on being there for your baby, find support where ever you can, and start counseling ASAP. Babies can feel what’s going on around them. If you get postpartum depression, your milk supply can stop. Nursing moms secrete oxytocin, a hormone that helps with bonding and secure attachment. Not to mention, breast milk helps with later immune system support. Safeguard your baby’s health by making sure you stay healthy.

    Hugs and better times to you.

    WIM

  • Ami, I know you’re grasping for straws and trying to come up with any scenario that will help you make sense of this situation. But he put up pictures on a dating site that YOU took when you were visiting his parents for the first time? You had been living with him for two years when he logged into this account?

    I understand how much you want to believe him. You must be completely overwhelmed with all the info you’ve read here, I’m sure you haven’t even thought of half the things people have told you to consider. Just remember to take baby steps. I still think it would be good to have a professional or a good friend to help you investigate. Then you can focus on taking care of yourself and your baby, and reconnect with friends and family to build a support network. When I was in the stage you’re in, I focused on getting myself into as strong a position as I could. No matter what happens, it will benefit you to have good social support.

    If you do discover that he’s cheating, you will be able to reach out for help to your network. You won’t have to do it all on your own. There are plenty of people who can guide you, help you, and support you. Don’t hesitate to ask for help.

    • So sorry Ami, but finding his online profile is equivalent to replacing suspicion with proof. The person you thought you were married might never have existed.

      Take screen shots of the online profiles, and all other profiles you might find! Hide these things in a new email address just for you (use google drive and an external memory stick too). Make copies of all paystubs and other financial documents (tax returns included) and hide them away as well.

      Then, sit down with your MOM and put together a household a budget (see my comment above). Putting your household budget is more critical than before, if your husband does not agree to a new distribution of your marital assets, you can use the budget during your divorce proceedings.

      Cheaters fucking suck balls, I am so angry for you and your kid, finding out about your husband as a new mom is beyond unfair and must be even more heart wrenching than when I found out when my kid was in elementary school. I know you are reeling, but please do listen to CN, the proof you have uncovered is devastating, but getting out now is probably going to save you and your baby a world of pain.

      • Chumptitude is so right–download all the information you can, make copies in duplicate, and keep the materials in two separate places/USB drives (one of them out of the house). I’m sorry you’re in this position, Ami. As much as it hurts, better to find out now than after you’ve wasted two decades of your life with the serial cheater.

  • “Maybe it’s his last girlfriend, who always thought there was something going on between us,”
    If the last girlfriend thought there was something going on, there probably was. IMHO, and after reading here for more than a year, when a chump suspects an affair, s/he is right. Personally, I think the letter writer here was an OW before the marriage, and knew the husband was a cheating type, but she thought she was SPECIAL.

    As for the letter from the most recent OW, it rocks. I only wish one of my ex’s OW’s had given me such a 2×4 to the head and knocked some sense in me that way. Harsh or not, with hidden agenda or not, that letter is telling the truth about the husband’s proclivities.

  • He was logging on to a dating site, and updating the pics there, while you were living together. I guess you have your answer – you’re married to a lying shithead.

    If he had wanted a ‘fresh start’ to his family life, he would have come clean with you, and sought counselling, lots of it. The main rule of thumb is that PEOPLE DON’T CHANGE. Not unless THEY are super motivated to change and get HELP to change. And self-centered liars don’t often do those things.

    The POA on the house has me very worried. You may not even be on the deed, and if the purchase went through before the marriage, or there’s a doc saying he’s the sole owner, you could be truly screwed on that.

    Ask yourself why the former ‘friend’ would have gotten so crazy. Maybe it’s because she’s crazy, or maybe it was because he WAS pulling all sorts of shit on her, and she hated that. What things DID she say back then?

    Keep checking! It was really easy to find that little bit of info already, eh? And DON’T confront him with what you’ve found! He’ll go further underground, and/or mindfuck even more, and/or start setting things up so that he can get out advantageously (for him!).

    • If it’s a community property state, it won’t matter if Ami’s name is on the deed. 50% of it is hers (though I agree she needs to get that POA removed NOW).

  • ” I can’t imagine my best friend would betray me at such a happy time in our lives. ” – I was 6months Married, and 5 months pregnant when I found out. My Best friend of 7 years. It hurts and there was no reason ever to think he would of done that to us. PLEASE protect yourself asap! Its been 6months since I kicked him out and he still wont sign the separation agreement allowing me to keep my home that I paid for all by myself. They will hold onto anything that gives them power over you. I really thought we could work out the details of separation but over time and a lot of wasted time it still ended up in the hands of lawyers. There is no reasoning with Cheaters. I am also a new mom, I pray you have friends or family that can support you though this, as he wont want to be around you once the cat is out of the bag, even if its for your child. I know it sounds unbelievable. My Husband left the country for 5 weeks then came home to prepare to leave for the winter. We got in a heated conversation and he left the country again. When I asked him why he didn’t stop by and see his son before he left his reply was “I didnt want to see you cause your such a Bitch” You know, I haven’t wanted to him since I kicked him out but because I had his child I had to let him come and visit, and I was nice to him when he did. They are so selfish it hard for people like us to understand the madness. His actions will always be your fault so get tough. You did nothing to deserve this.

    • so sorry bear-but the “I can’t see my kid because my ex is a psycho” or “my ex won’t let me see my kid” is as old as the hills. Every narc or self centered idiot uses those excuses. Your child will be so much better off without your ex in his life. I know a woman right now that has her two teenage sons in intense therapy due to her ex narc. It breaks her heart how hard they try to please him (to no avail) and she is scared to death the older one is picking up his traits.

  • Ami, I’m sorry you have to be here, but CN will help you navigate this personal crisis. The hardest part of reading this for me is seeing that you are only 4 months post birth. Your body needs time to heal and so does your mind. Pregnancy and birth really alter your hormones and that could make this harder than you want it to be. It’s difficult to find your anger and hatred for the person who hurts you in the most intimate way possible when you’re flooded with oxytocin at every turn. Please keep that in mind, your feelings may be impacted by your hormones.

    • Yes, that’s what concerns me too. Ami needs to take really good care of herself and her baby right now. When I think of how flooded with hormones I was that soon after birth, I could barely think straight. Dealing with this turmoil on top of that is just beyond hard. She needs time to think and process her next step, and she probably needs some outside help. At least a good therapist to help her process everything and provide emotional support.

  • Though this may sound even nuttier than the letter, I think the OW (“Turbo”) may actually be trying to get you to dump him so she can have his lying ass to herself. It isn’t all that uncommon.
    Anyway, Ami, I am sorry you’re going through this. If even a little bit of what she says is true, it shouldn’t be too hard to verify. Check his online history, and his phone. He’s probably left plenty of clues.

  • Don’t make excuses for him honey — he will make plenty of excuses for himself and use your gullible nature to extend his time to eat cake.

    In order to make sense of things you have to put together a time line, and you have to pursue leads. Some of those might take you places you would rather not know about. I found out about a whole world of porn that I didn’t even know existed — it was disgusting, and had nothing to do with enhancing someone’s sex life and everything to do with humiliating and subjugating women. I struggled to think that I had been intimate with this man, and had never had a clue that his interests ran this way! As you make progress you will find out that the man you thought was the love of your life really never existed, instead a cold hearted actor pretended to be someone who cared for you in order to use you, It is hard to accept, but don’t cling to your hopes — cling to reality, and you will discover the truth if you put aside your doubts, and follow the clues you have been given.

    If this OW knows that he has a proclivity for underage girls — prepare yourself. She may be making an ugly accusation, but she may be on to something., Pedophiles have to be very secretive to get away with what they like to do — it is twisted, and recidivism is close to 100%. You don’t have to make a case that will stand up in a court of law — just enough to convince you to run. You won’t be able to change him, or cure him — you can only change your life to protect you and your baby!

    • Portia,
      This was chilling. The person who wrote the letter said he likes to be “dominant” in bed. A while back I did see some porn in his web history. It wasnt sexy at all, very degrading to the woman. I know men and women have different tastes and porn is a fantasy. I’ve been open minded but…
      Maybe he’s into more extreme things than I know.

      • Ami …. you’ve got a MAJOR problem on your hands. Being degrading to women is a HUGE red flag. If you keep excusing this asshole, you will NEVER, EVER get away. Eventually, I guaranty you he will be emotionally and verbally abusing you. This is how guys like your husband (the way you describe what’s going on) operate.

        I know you’ve gotten a TON of wonderful advice. Here’s mine:

        GET YOURSELF to a counselor, ALONE. It must be a marriage/divorce counselor -(NOT a marriage counselor), with background in helping abused women. The M/D’s are much more neutral. TELL HIM/HER exactly what is going on, and what you know from the past.

        Please know that often, people who are cheating use TWO phones. The one used with OW’s are throw-away types. I agree you should get GPS.

        With guys like this, you definitely need CONCRETE proof.

  • First things first, I wouldn’t believe a word out of this whore’s mouth. She is clearly trying to get you to dump your husband so she can claim victory in the pick me dance. Not to say you shouldn’t dump him.. but I wouldn’t do it solely because of this letter. Whores are liars. The fact that she is blaming YOU in this letter for not KNOWING that your H is philandering around is CLEARLY a case of first class blameshifting. SHE is the guilty one here!

    Whether she is really pissed or not is irrelevant. She’s clearly in competition with you (in her own mind) and that’s what this letter is all about. It’s all about putting you down to somehow justify her shitty behavior. FAIL!

    If I were you I would:

    1. Find a lawyer to have ready on speed dial and formulate a back up plan. Hopefully you won’t need it, but get a jump on it and be prepared.

    2. Act like you believe your H.. try to act normal. Then start some investigating. Cell phone records, web searches, even consider hiring a PI or let a friend help you stake it out. You need more information. But this is ONLY going to work if your H believes he is in the clear and you aren’t suspicious. Guys who are fearful of being caught tend to lay low. Make him feel comfortable so he’ll slip up.

    It’s possible this is just a crazy bitch… but USUALLY where there is smoke there is fire.. so get prepared for that. Don’t bury your head in the sand, be on the look out and get the information you need to make an informed decision about YOUR life. This is YOUR life.

    I know this sucks and getting that letter must have been horrible for you..but you can survive this, and it’s not 100% that your H is cheating.. it’s possible it was just a woman who is jealous and wants him.. how he responds to this is how you will know his intentions. Is he patient with your questions? Is he trying to reassure? Or is he like Chumplady saying..defensive, blameshifting, gaslighting. Watch his reactions, it will tell you a lot.

  • The Red Light warning for me is the doh-see-doh of having you sign power of attorney to him when you bought a house. That screams to me of a big ass problem….Ami, what ‘logic’ did he use when he had you sign this? Was a Real Estate Agent involved? A Mortgage Officer? My Cheaterpants had us move numerous times, leaving behind family and friends….its a way to ‘control’. He passed away and I am ‘stuck’ 2,000 miles from family and close friends. Get your hormones undercontrol and put your stealth Bitchpants on…keep that smile on your face and quietly investigate….just because you turned one stone over, doesn’t mean that he hasn’t buried the secrets somewhere else. And get involved with the finances….. know what’s up.

  • Agree startofsomethinggood! – OW is worse than a piece of garbage. I mean, it really IS so over the top and the letter writer / OW didn’t even have the balls to confront the guy directly who has no idea she found out he was married with a family? -Because it is so much easier to rage against the unknowing wife?

    Especially egregious is that the OW is slinging her mud, and madness, and obviously projectile FOO issues at an unknowing mom with a newborn. Who does that?

    OW’s broomstick is definitely on fire. So much so, she may just spontaneously-combust!

  • Ugh. I’m so disgusted by all these disordered people…just straight dysfunctional humans. There really just needs to be an island for all of them – where they all can screw each other over both literally and figuratively. They can have a big disordered and dysfunctional orgy! A perpetual circus to entertain themselves.

    Ami,
    I so wish I wouldn’t have done the “pick me dance”. Thinking that we could work it out, that I could offer him forgiveness and he would realize he didn’t want to break up our family, that he truly loved me. I wish that I would have gone with my gut and left ASAP. I wish I would have found the most experienced and cut throat lawyer out there (instead 10 months later I’m still in a never ending battle to get my divorce settled and finalized). It’s NEVER what I had hoped for my life or my kids…and I too thought my husband was my best friend and incapable of such destruction and deceit. But the truth is now setting me free…truly.

    I hope you can find a net of support that can hold you up. A lawyer that will fight for you. And a therapist that will give you the tools to make it out of this stronger and happier. It’s incredibly scary and it’s so, so heartbreaking. Especially when children are involved. I empathize with you, as I know the devastation and pain you are facing but please don’t let him continue to play with your heart, manipulate you and rob you of authentic and reciprocated love. You deserve truth, respect and love.

    All my best.

  • I think it’s true. And there’s not a heck of a lot to go on, but with every lie – there is a certain amount of truth to it. Did she describe him correctly? I think she’s doing you a favor and I know it hurts like hell especially with a new baby and all – but guard yourself. Mine was a serial cheat too and I caught him several times, but didn’t have the strength or self respect to end it. Finally after 30 years together – he took off for someone who has more money. And yes, it still broke my heart. But now, I know that he did me a favor – I haven’t been happier and at peace. So don’t be afraid to know the truth and face it. You will be ok.

  • Ami – what others have said here about the Power of Attorney is true. This will allow him to act unilaterally with regard to Real Estate without your consent. You need to get that revoked immediately. I would suggest taking it to a family lawyer rather than a real estate attorney. I don’t know if you are on the deed to the house , the mortgage or in a community property state?

    You don’t sound incapacitated to me, or in the military, which is when most people will use a Power of Attorney.

    But what you do sound is full of hopium. And from the language the OW sounds like a CL reader — not to mention a very bitchy person giving you the ultimate ‘bitch slap’ while trying to make it sound like ‘genuine concern’ for you.

    She sounds disordered and my experience is they usually don’t go away quietly because ‘of their dignity” Sex in the back of a Silverado sounds very dignified. She sounds like a “bunny boiler’

    You need to start bulletproofing yourself financially. Start your own emergency fund, get your documents down to a divorce planner that can tell you what you are on the hook for in your state and don’t put your head in the sand. Don’t wait.

  • Ami:

    Here’s my two cents for what it’s worth: be cautious, be smart, be gone if the doubts and worries do not subside.

    My ex-husband moved out, said he was “done”, he ” wasn’t happy, he was “afraid he’d have a nervous breakdown/mental psychotic episode and didn’t want A)me to put him in a nuthouse; B) me and mini-Molly to witness it. At first, he was around constantly then about a month after moving out he met his Schmoopie. He was still kind of talking to me while building an relationship up with her. It wasn’t until about six weeks after meeting her and felt he had a ” sure thing” with Schmoopie, plus I wasn’t doing the “Pick-Me” dance in any way, shape, or form that he filed for divorce.

    The point is that he had her lined up for his next victim/woman. Most cheaters/narcs play the same moves, your husband sounds like one too. I’m sorry.

    Parts of OW’s letter— and I agree with my fellow chumps that her letter is downright bitchy, probably a scorned woman, but she didn’t have to be a bitch to you— must have some merit if you’re this concerned to write Chump Lady.

    I advise you to trust your instincts, confide in your mom and close friends— speaking of family, something you said about your husband sent a red flag to me — that your family is his only family? Yep, good thing my family never liked my ex- . They all saw him as a leech, an asshole, and a user, but of course I was stupid for him for years.

    Keep us posted, good luck, and please heed our counsel and advice!!!

  • I don’t know why it’s unbelievable that this woman didn’t know this man was married with a kid. I’ve UNKNOWINGLY been the other woman. And if his wife can think her man is faithful even though he’s not, it’s not far fetched at all that he could spin a story to deceive another woman, especially a teenage child, that he is unmarried and childless. I think you all are forgetting that this affair seems to have started when she was a teenager, and teenaged girls can be very trusting and vulnerable. Men who cheat will do and say anything to have their cake and eat it too.

    Also, I believe where there is smoke, there is fire. She’s given very specific details that only someone who was physically intimate would know, such as body markings that can only be seen by seen when he’s shirtless. I’m not saying I’m 100% sure he’s unfaithful, but there’s way more than enough evidence to raise suspicion.

    I see a few condescending remarks in the letter, but I don’t think it’s as awful as you all are making it out to be. I think the wife out to count her blessings that the information was given to her cause a lot of women wouldn’t tell her anything and let her keep being a fool. The wife out to take heed and confront her husband about the allegations. I’m not a big proponent of snooping. I say if you don’t trust your SO confront them with questions, hold their feet to the fire, and decide if you believe their answers. If not, then bounce. If you do, then stick around and work it out. Playing private investigator takes up too much time and energy that could be better spent.

      • Alias1013, as I stated earlier, I was also an unknowing OW at one point. I wholeheartedly agree that many married men are able to fool OW into thinking they are single, but it would be pretty hard to keep that con up if and when you started entering the “serious dating” stages. If you were never able to stay over at or even visit your boyfriend’s house, that would be a pretty huge red flag.

        I respectfully disagree that the letter isn’t that bad. The author mocks Ami with her little theory and goes so far as to blame her for not being able to control another human being’s actions. She admits that her tone is condescending and mean-spirited, but she is such a straight bitch that she decides not to edit her tone, and send the letter as is. I guess – thanks for the information if it’s true, but she can go ahead and fuck right off now.

    • You know what, alias? I think you are the OW who wrote this vile letter.
      You seriously think that this letter is ‘not that bad’? You are fucking disgusting.
      I’m not easily offended – this letter is disgusting even to myself. It is written by someone who goes beyond ‘usual’ evil. A condescending, pathetic whore.

      There are people on CN who have been unknowingly in relationships with people who are already taken. I can count myself to have been unfortunately in that situation. In my particular case – the shit hit the fan 6 weeks into what I wrongly perceived as a relationship at the time – when I find out that he had a girlfriend, and a pregnant girlfriend at that, in his home town. The moment I found out, I went no contact and was fucking disgusted with him.
      The reason I found this out was because his girlfriend, admitted as such. So, she found out that he was mooching around. She found out what happened, and I bowed out of the situation.
      The difference between an ‘unknowing OW’ and a whore, is that an unknowing OW will immediately cull the other person, think they are a vile piece of shit, and/or tell the actual girlfriend, if at all possible. A whore won’t give a fuck, or will pull this sort of shit to try and ‘win’ someone.

  • He is going out of town for training over the next two days. I plan to search his study while he’s away. Maybe I’ll talk to my mom also. I do feel alone here as the only women I know are wives of his military buddies. I’m so depressed right now.
    I want so badly for this to be a mean lie. He loves our son so much and was so supportive during my difficult labor. His job keeps him so busy and exhausted, how does he have the energy to put into cheating?
    I looked up the former FWB on FB. I don’t know why I still feel threatened by her so many years later. Should I reach out to her and see if my she’s has contact with him? From what I knew of his last relationship, she wasnt catty when she spoke to his GF. She seemed like she was apologetic and helpful but that could have been a tactic. He said she lied about any cheating because she wanted to break them up.
    I feel physically I’ll.

    • I was unknowinglywith the OW. The behaviors in the OW letter are very similar to how my ex behaved. He sounds very narcissistic, but whether he is or isn’t doesn’t matter. Do not compare yourself to the OW. I know this will be hard to understand, but his behavior is NOT a reflection on you. He betrayed you because there is something wrong with *him* not you. You didn’t do anything wrong. I say all this to mean that he would have likely cheated no matter who his wife was. He likely doesn’t have it in to be faithful to anyone. There’s nothing you could have done to ensure his fidelity. I’m sorry that you’re going through this, but you will get through this.

    • I guess I didn’t pick up on the fact that he’s in the military. You have so many more options that this can be a good thing. It’s been many years since I’ve served, so verify what I tell you is still accurate. First, find proof that he is having a sexual relationship. I believe adultery is still a crime according the the Uniform Code of Military Justice. You may have benefits which entitle you to use JAG, don’t do that! Pay for a civilian attorney. Once you have proof of adultery (crime), you have him over a barrel. You can kick him out, even if you’re living in military housing, and they will garnish his wages and pay them directly to you. He will still have to keep you on his health care plan through the divorce and your child on it as long as he is in the military. He will not want to be court marshaled for adultery. He will loose rank and pay and may even serve jail time. Get proof, then get a civilian lawyer, someone who specializes in domestic law. Then go home. The military should pay for the shipment of all your belonging. He has to go where the military sends him, and this will be good for you and it will help with no contact. Also, do not use GPS on a military member until you’ve consulted an attorney. This in itself may be a criminal offense.

    • I missed he was military myself. Usually you would have the power of attorney to handle things while he’s gone. Please Don’t contact her. It’s a mistake. You have no idea if they’re still together and they’re both lying. You are playing right into her hand.

      Listen to what Anne said above and keep posting here or go into the forum and talk to people in there.

      Get some professional advice. Pls

    • No, no, no, don’t contact her. The last thing you want is giving ammo and intimate details about your marriage to a former FWB, and one that you’re threatened by nonetheless. Bad idea. Is he in the military too? Sunk costs are a bitch and it sounds like you’ll have a lot of sunk costs. If you confide in someone you pick one, maybe two people for now that have your back and will keep it quiet until you’ve got your ducks in a row. Feeling physically ill sadly probably won’t go away quickly. Shit sandwiches are just that, shit. It’s not supposed to be digested in the first place. You will get through it. You will find your mightiness.

    • No do not contact her. Don’t go there. Try to relax and enjoy your mom and baby. I know how hard this is for you. Do one thing at a time. Check the study tomorrow. For all we know she is a nutjob causing trouble. I was thinking how overwhelming all this information must be for you especially when it should be the happiest time of your life. Get some rest.

    • “He loves our son so much and was so supportive during my difficult labor.”

      This was also my husband. People like this don’t know how to love, Ami. They only know how to avoid immediate discomfort.

      You cannot show him the way, hold his hand through therapy, or hope that standing by him will show him what true love means. Only HE can change him, and he first has to want to. He will never want to as long as you stay with him, because you’re a buffer from the rock bottom he needs to hit before he can even hope to chew himself up and build himself back up. He probably won’t do that without you, and he will certainly not do that *with* you.

      I’ve known unicorns, but in every case it was a single affair. (Not that that’s ok, mind you.) Serial cheaters like your husband (and mine) don’t reform. They don’t change. THEY. DON’T. CHANGE.

  • Ami,

    I am so sorry that you are going through this horrific pain. I initially doubted your letter was from an actual and very recent OW. I’m only 5 months from D-day and therefore please excuse me for my temporary insanity. I’ve corrected this by reaching behind me and thwacking myself in the back of the head. My sanity has fully returned. Yes, the letter is from a recent, and vile, OW.

    My first clues that I was married to a cheater was my STBX constantly texted, held his phone as if it was a lifeline, and took it EVERYWHERE. I began to get mental images of him holding up a finger in a “just a minute gesture” during sex so he could answer a text. It was too much. His phone was on my wireless account and I began checking his texting history. The idiot left a work phone call roster at home and I was easily able to see who he texted 300-600 times a day. My gut was screaming cheater, but my heart talked my head into believing his lies. Then D-Day. He misdirected a text meant for her to me.

    Prior to checking his messages, I would never have violated what I believed was his privacy. IMO, when I suspected something was wrong, so wrong that I acted outside my normal behavior, checked his messages, then I already had my answer. I was married to a cheater. IMO, your letter to CL was so full of clues that you too suspect you are married to a cheater. Your gut knows what he is doing. Now your head needs to tell your heart to shut the hell up. Again, I am very sorry. Please follow everyone’s advise and be mighty.

  • Ami,

    Sorry you’re going through this.

    “His job keeps him so busy and exhausted, how does he have the energy to put into cheating?”

    Yep I thought the same thing about my cheating ex. She and I are both serving as was the affair partner. Read Chump Lady’s post about the Cheater Work Ethic. He’s probably exhausted cause he’s leading a double life. I knew something was wrong, my partner was so tired, stressed, depressed, struggling at work etc I didn’t think she could possibly be having an affair. I was propping her up at home and at work (literally doing some of her work for her) cause she “couldn’t cope”. She was so stressed and exhausted she couldn’t spend time with me at home – just wanted to sleep etc. Also any attempt to contact her during work hours (maybe sort out dinner plans, ask how she was, tell her I love her etc) were met with anger – I was distracting her, she was busy, stressed no time. So I was sure she couldn’t have the energy for an affair.

    It was all lies. She had all the time in the world during the working day to sext, email, phone etc the AP (also on the same base). She was exhausted from living the double life.

    I’d be careful about speaking to the other military wives too. It could be one of them or they may know something that they don’t want to share and could tip him off about your sleuthing. The military is quite incestuous at times.

    From my experience get hard evidence. If you use the same computer as him get a legal keylogger that you pay for (don’t get one online as it could be malware). Use it to get passwords, find out what he’s doing etc. You may also face part of the problem I did that he could be conducting a lot of the affair using his work resources (phone, email etc) that you can’t get access too. Anything he gives you willing access to (like his cell phone you mentioned) he has likely cleared and isn’t a means of affair communication. That being said some cheaters are dumb and don’t delete things properly (like my ex who gave me access to her email accounts at home as an act of transparency but forgot to clear the sent items…)

    Everything you’re feeling – depression, feeling ill etc is normal. It might get worse for a while but ultimately you will come through this (once you get your ducks in a row, get hard evidence and dump his ass). Try and not spackle as we all do – finding good or excuses where there are none.

    Good luck and stay in touch with Chump Nation!

  • I would like to give a shout-out to those of us who honestly did not know the guy was married or had a GF, and bounced the moment we found out this was the case. We do exist. This letter is way too hateful and condescending to have come from one of us. I sent a letter, but it really just laid out the facts and wished her well.

    • Same on this end. I bounced the moment I found out he had a girlfriend and had just got engaged. I informed the fiancee, but as far as I know, she stuck by him. At least one of us was able to make an informed decision about him.

  • whoa – I’m so overwhelmed by all the comments, I can’t imagine how this raw woman, Ami is taking it all in.
    Everybody is making great points, of course, but really – there is NO solid proof at this point that I can see. I don’t care about that letter at all. Ami sees her husband as her best friend and father of her child. Please, should we all refrain from judgments until there is more proof? I can’t imagine how all of this must feel to Ami, with a new baby. But, my only advice is to show your mother the letter and see what she thinks. I’m so upset for you. Mostly because, what they’re all saying is probably true. And, you are so raw right now. I hate all of this cheating. (trying to be devil’s advocate here I guess).
    But, I think evidence is the most important. And, you are SO lucky to have a mom right there to confide in. Nothing better than that. Her opinion on the letter is HUGE.

    I couldn’t believe it myself after 35 yrs of marriage – just plugged the iPad into ‘find my phone app’, and I got him >that Fast< cheating and lying about where he was. I followed him for a full year until we divorced and then told him about what I'd done. He didn't know he could turn off the button and thought I worked for the HSD and threw my iPad away. ha – as somebody said, most of these cheaters are stupid after awhile.

    Yeah, hate all the sleuthing – it takes away parts of your soul every time you catch them in another lie and say nothing, holding your tongue while they dance into the room all puffy and happy after their latest….weekend or whatever.

    I'm totally contradicting myself but I wanted to believe the best . . but, I just hope we haven't been too hard on Ami tonight. We love you, girl. Hang in there!
    Please keep us posted!

    • Yes, She Chump, I have an image of mine prancing down the hall before an encounter, like he was about to see a supermodel, instead of a garden variety two bit whore. They are delusional, and that’s putting it nicely.

  • The one thing that probably would prove it above all others, is watching him like a hawk.
    Did he get in anyway defensive when he started his ‘crazy ex’ response when you confronted him? If so – he’s currently cheating. Sorry.
    The dating site thing is also telling – why does a committed person need to be on a dating website?
    Fact is – they don’t. Unless they are looking for someone else. I think the ONLY good reason for 1yr ago activity on a dating site would be if it were for the sole purpose to purge all pictures and information from an account. This is clearly not the case.
    That letter was beyond evil – but its the kind of shit that someone who is disordered, does when trying to win triangulation battles. Immature and fucking disgusting.
    You don’t need this shit.

  • Ami- If your H is the narcissistic cheater we suspect, he will be all about image management. Let your Mom know of your worries but ask for her silence as you get the info you need. However, if things should blow up prematurely, she can be valuable leverage to get her “beloved son-in-law” to toe-the-line; such as getting the POA reversed, other financial issues in your favor, transparency of his actions, etc…. Use Momma Bear’s presence to your advantage in these initial stages.

    • Ami, you keep mentioning the FWB. Have you looked at the postmark on the letter envelope?

  • Well this morning my mom and I drove him to the airport. I walked him to the doors and hugged him. He looked so handsome when he smiled at me and kissed me good bye. I started missing him already and completely pushed away all my doubt in him. Then he said I’m going to miss my ladies (me and my mom). It came rushing back like a punch in the gut. Ladies? How many ladies exactly?
    When I got back to the car I held it in for a few minutes and then burst into tears. My mom kept asking what was wrong and pulled over. I composed myself and told her everything. She comforted me and said everything was going to be okay. She would get me home with my son and we could talk it out.
    When we got home she made breakfast and then sat next to me on the couch. She looked very troubled and said she had to tell me something. I felt sick to my stomach again. She said a couple of months ago she and my dad heard about the Ashley Madison leak. They decided to check if “their boys” (my husband and brother in law) were signed up. My sisters husbands email did not come up, my husbands did! She said the only info she found was his alias (same username as the site I found) his birthdate, city, and title heading. She didn’t know if this was an active acct or one he had before me. She didn’t say anything to me because she didn’t want to stress me while pregnant.
    Instead she and my dad talked to him. Told him he needed to grow up and be a good husband and father. Whatever he has done in the past needed to stay there and he needed to move toward with his family.
    She was horrified by the letter and wants to tell my father. I asked her to keep it to herself for now.
    My life is in a blender.

    • Oh, Ami. So many hugs to you right now. I know what it’s like to be sitting there with an infant, terrified as you watch the life you planned on melt away. But finally telling my parents was a good move, and they were there for me (and horrified, as yours are). It sucks they didn’t tell you about the Ashley Madison thing, but I think a lot of parents would do that. It’s hard not to shelter your baby, even if they’re grown. I say, let your mom tell your dad. You will need all the support and help you can get.

      WIth all the mounting evidence against your husband, it looks like he hasn’t slowed down, and has no plans of doing so…even against the threat of losing everything. I’m sorry. I wish I could magically (Christmas Carol-like, think Ghost of Christmas Yet To Come) show you what your life will be like once the ripping of the band-aid is all over, but believe me, there is something more marvelous in store for you. The time for walking on eggshells and shutting your eyes against the truth is over (well, almost over…I advocate hanging around and gathering as much evidence as possible / preparing with lawyers for a while). Here’s to being mighty…

    • If you want to go the PI route, first hire an attorney, then have the attorney retain the PI. The attorney should be able to make sure that any investigating is “above board”, further protecting your interests.

      Your Dad needs to know about the letter. Yesterday. My heart breaks for you – but sadly it looks like it is time to circle the wagons.

      • From a PI website:

        “If a situation that we investigate goes to trial you may want to choose an attorney before you begin. This way the attorney will employ us instead of you the individual. If your attorney is our client, our reports, and notes wont be open to the other side for discovery. Your file from us is safe under the ” work product ” rule.
        Work product rule : Notes, documents, reports and research materials and the like gathered by a PI in an investigation are confidential information that may disclose the attorneys trial strategy. Attorney work product privilege is one of the five privileges in exemption 5 of the Freedom of Information act, 5 USC 552 (b) (5).”

    • Oh Ami, I’ve been following your story and comments on here. I am so sorry you have to deal with this. It brings tears to my eyes. We all know the horror and disbelief, the sorrow, and your desperate desire to want it to work out with him. You look at your handsome husband, who seems so loving and charming, and your mind just cannot take in that this man you love is not real, does not really exist.

      And g-d bless your mother, what an awesome woman. I would suggest that you do not keep the secret from your father either. You need all the support and sanity you can get. You will get through this but you will need their help. Follow the advice above, don’t show your hand, get your ducks in a row, contact a lawyer, and a counselor for yourself. Protect yourself and do it for yourself and for your child.

      Ami please do not make the mistake I made–I thought my ex husband was cheating when I was pregnant with my youngest son. He convinced me he was not and that any inappropriate connection he had with two women he worked with was “severed” at that time. I believed him….I wanted and needed to believe him. TWELVE YEARS LATER I found out he had been and was still cheating with the same women I suspected all those years ago. Instead of me being 38 years old as I was when I first suspected him, he left me anyhow, when I was 51 years old, and married one of these women! All those years of lies, it almost destroyed me to realize that he had wasted so many years of my life, and I had let him.

      I would give almost anything to have those years back, to have been able to start over when I was in my 30’s. To be able to marry and have children with someone who truly loved and honored ME. (I am re-married now, to a wonderful man, but I am still angry about the decades of lies, about the choices that ex deprived me of to decide MY LIFE).

      Taking a line from ChumpLady, Ami, don’t let him steal another day from you. I wish you much strength and send you tremendously ((((BIG HUGS)))).

  • Oh, Ami, I’m so glad your Mom has your back. What a blessing to have your parents as allies. But no more talking to your h until you can do research and make preparations.

    I wonder if this talk from your parents triggered h to tell OW he had to go underground for a while, hence her rage.

    Good luck, Ami. Stay strong. I don’t think there’s any doubt left about what you’re dealing with here. I’m so sorry but you can make it. Jedi hugs!

  • Ami, I’m so so sorry you are going through this. I understand so well the sick feeling in the pit of your stomach, the unrelenting anxiety on top of deep love you feel for your husband. I’m really glad you told your Mom and you have her support. My parents saved my life during my divorce, I don’t know how I’d have managed without them. Whatever the truth is, I hope you can get to the bottom of it. I will tell you that once my husband had broken my trust the first time, I never really trusted him again. That nagging doubt was always in the back of my mind, it’s a tough thing to be married to someone you can’t trust, even when you want to. Best of luck to you and stay strong!

  • Ami,

    As you can see from reading the comments, there is nothing 100% original about your situation. None of it is your fault. Your husband has a fatal character flaw. His sense of entitlement prompts him to take you for granted while he plays the field behind your back, or at very least holds open the possibility of doing that. Narcissists are funny that way. They also may make all the right noises about wanting a family, but most of them can’t stand that everything can’t be all about them when they have one. Separating you from your friends and family is a standard move. It allows him to control the flow of information to you, which helps to keep you compliant and his secrets safe. Unfortunately, it rarely stops there. If he thinks you are onto him, you can expect him to start chipping away at your perceptions of reality. That form of crazymaking is called “gaslighting.” Don’t buy into it.

    Please keep your parents in the loop as you sort through this stuff. My Dad was my anchor when I was going through hell and finding my way back into the sunlight. You need loyalty in your corner, and they will give you that. Take very good care of yourself and your little one. And please don’t give someone undeserving 16 years of your life, like I did. You are mightier than you think.

  • I am so so sorry Ami, Oh God it is so freaking unfair and I can’t imagine how painful it is to go through this as a young mom. But you have CN and great parents Ami, rely on us and them in this horrendously difficult time. Please let your Dad read the letter and help you.

    As Anne mentioned yesterday, given that your husband is in the military, your best next step is to get proof of sexual adultery. Keep copies of all online profile info, and ask your family to try the same username on other sites (e.g. Adult Friend Finder, Craig’s list hookups). This might hurt too much to do this yourself, ask a family member to look around for you.

    Once you have proof, I would suggest you get rid of the POA on the house, start the divorce proceedings asap, and find a way to move close to your family so you can get the support you need to start the next chapter of your life with your son (and cheater-free).

    (((Ami)))

  • Sorry you are going through this. Lets break it down:

    1. Proof he is on a dating site with pictures and active profile while you are living together (have you checked other sites?)

    2. Proof he had an Ashley Madison account at some time

    3. A letter from an OW with high detail, stating she has been in a relationship with him for some time now, and that he is also cheating with another woman, whom I guess is probably 19 or something thus the “teen” references.

    4. A husband who continues to lie to you and your mother

    Im so glad you told your mom. Let her tell your father. Quit trying to protect him from consequences of his actions. If you stay together, their opinion of his is HIS problem not yours. What you are doing is co-dependent thinking — trying to shield him and manipulate outcomes.

    Have you Googled that user name he always uses? If you do, it may show you all kinds of other sites he’s used it on.

    have you checked the itemized call/text logs from your cell provider? The fact he shows you his phone all the time means nothing. He can easily delete texts or use secret texting apps or all kinds of games/applications to communicate. Plus secret email accounts, work email, work phones, secret phones. Endless possibilities.

    Have you checked his FB messenger?

    Id put a voice activated recorder in his car when he returns.

    When you confront him, he will promise you the world. He will admit to only what you know and nothing else. He will swear he was on the sites but never met anyone. He will cry and claim he has a problem and offer to do counseling. Don’t buy any of it. Insist on a polygraph test. Insist on all his passwords. Or better yet insist on nothing and just walk — this man sadly is just a liar and a cheat 🙁

    You are young and can change your life to be infidelity free. He wont ever change – serial cheaters like his just don’t.

  • Thanks everyone for your supports and advise. I realize that things look bad and I understand why I’m being advised to gather evidence first but I can’t wrap my head around calling it quits just yet. How am I supposed to live with this information without addressing it with him? Is counseling not an option? It can’t be that black and white. This bomb just went off in my life shouldn’t I make him explain himself?

    • Yes it is that black and white. It’s either okay with you that he’s cheating on you or it’s not. I know you’re in shock, and I know you WANT to believe it’s all a great big mistake. Everyone who wrote to you has BEEN there. That same bomb went off for us too. And we’re telling you from very hard won knowledge and deep pain, what do to — protect yourself and gather evidence.

      Cheaters LIE. That’s what cheating is — lies upon lies upon lies. His reaction to you finding out will be more of the same — LIES. So get the proof you need (frankly you already have it), and gather financials — especially that POA! — and see a lawyer. AFTER you protect yourself, then MAYBE, you can consider what it would take to reconcile. But NOT before.

      Please don’t stick your head in the sand. Please start protecting yourself. You’ve gotten very good advice here. I sure hope you take it.

      • Ami, CL is right about that POA. It’s a large, waving red banner. My cheater ex got one from me, for a refi, just before our wedding. You see, we bought the house together before we married, and with my work schedule and school schedule it was better, he thought, to go sign the papers for both of us on the new loan. Funny thing was, he put the property we bought together in joint tenancy in his name only, as separate property. When I figured that out, he changed it, but it cost me $100k in the divorce years later, because I only got appreciation on the property from the time he put it back in both our names, not from the time of purchase. That POA was seen as an agreement by me to take my equity, and too many years had passed to complain of the fraud after he put my name back on.

        That alone is a good reason to doubt the dude you married. He’s already putting you in a one-down position financially. That’s not a caring loving thoughtful thing to do.

        • As for not being able to wrap your head around calling it quits just yet, Ami, I wish I had a good answer for that. I gave it a few more years of doing what I felt I needed to do to feel I’d given it the good chump try. It was a huge mistake, and I wouldn’t recommend it. If someone stole your purse, would you go to them for comfort after that loss? No. And your self is more important than a purse. Go to your parents, find a good person to counsel you, and gather the resources you will need if and when you’ve had enough. Be prepared, and know when you’ve had enough.

    • The thing about counseling is that it assumes those involved will be telling the truth. All of it.

      Your husband doesn’t tell the truth. And counseling with liars makes everyone who is honest show their hand… he’ll only gain tools to manipulate you with even further.

        • I get that counseling can be helpful… but for lying cheaters? Them lying is the issue; the room isn’t filled with truth serum fumes or anything. You can’t talk a liar out of lying. You can’t trust that everything that comes out of their mouths is true. Or even partially true. And Trust can’t be therapied back… they killed it themselves. If they actually felt THAT badly about lying, they wouldn’t have done it. These are grown-ass adults, not children working through the very first conflict of self-preservation smashing into negative consequences they’ve caused.

          These are also people who are intent on Being Sparkly. Maybe they’re defensive and haughty. Maybe they’re really skilled and know that appearing pitiful and contrite will make them look good to the therapist. They know how to deceive without it feeling obviously deceptive.

          They don’t even think that they owe the Truth to the person they VOWED to be truthful to and protect and cherish… and anyone really expects they’ll be truthful to some new person to whom they owe NOTHING? Yuhright. lol

    • It is okay to pause. But do not rely on him to process. Right now, time is on your side, so do what you need to do to get information on your own. Make copies of your financial records. Speak with a PI. Consult with an attorney. There is absolutely nothing wrong with collecting information.

      You are also entitled to keep this to yourself until you have more information. That is, your husband is not privy to your thoughts or intentions.

      You are under no obligation to decide anything right now. You do need to protect yourself and your son. That comes in the form of information. Knowledge is power.

      It took me a week to accept that my husband was not coming back. But I knew immediately it was over. You can’t put toothpaste back into the tube.

  • Ami, I’m so sorry. There’s a lot of good advice and strategy here. I know you want to believe him, believe that your world is not about to crumble into a million pieces. Someone here once wrote this, “People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.” You’ll know, and I mean know in your bones, when it comes time to ask if you can see his phone, the phone bill, the laptop.

    P.S. Verizon wireless keeps the actual text in text messages online for 3 days. Ask your carrier before you go to him.

  • I’ve been wondering about Rumblekitty, lately. Sound advice wrapped up with razor sharp humor. Hope you’re well, Rumble….

  • I am so sorry Ami. The idea to hire an investigator or snoop is a good idea. The thing is if somebody is innocent they will say they are innocent, but if they are guilty they will still claim innocence. The only way to know for sure which camp they fall into is to investigate. I found the information I needed by purchasing keylogger software. I was able to track where he went on the computer, see instant messaging communication with the OW and get the password to his email. I would recommend the book “Love Must Be Tough” by Dobson. I went to individual counseling when I was discovering everything, it can be helpful to have someone to guide you through. You are worth treating well Ami.

  • Ami?? What KIND of POA was it? A Durable POA?? If that’s the case – you better GET TO AN ATTORNEY NOW and have that revoked or make your MOM POA. If it is a “Springing” POA; not as bad, because you have to be incapacitated and hubby must jump through hoops to get that proven. Get his name OFF legal documents.

    And yes because your husband is in the military – you better check about the GPS laws first. GO see a counselor yourself – like I said before; and, go see a good attorney. Your mom already knows shit is going on … and it sounds like she’ll be a great help to you. So, so sorry.

  • Ami…I think that it is “possible” that your own mother wrote that letter. Sorry. But since she already found out what kind of man you married (what ever possessed her to check out Ashley Madison in the FIRST place?), then this may have been her god-awful way of getting you to open your eyes about your future before you have invested too much of it in this marriage. She’d know that you would start snooping and finding some evidence…and funny that the letter showed up at a time when she was there visiting you. Of course the letter would come off as hateful. She probably hates your husband and wants you to hate him too. To compound this, she has to deal with the fact that your husband took her daughter/baby far away and isolated you from her. This compounds her fears for you as well as her anger toward him. I hope I am wrong…but there is only one way to find out if your husband is still the “ladies man” now that “someone” has started the ball rolling….and it is NOT by asking HIM.

    It may well be that your mother is obsessing about her son-in-law and ended up here at Chump Nation since she found out about him. The writer of that letter is well versed in all of the things written and suggested here. The tone of the letter is very disrespectful and condescending…like someone who thinks of you as naive, weak, and passive. Are you?

    You might also ask your mom if SHE has ever been cheated on too.

    • Sweetz — I really don’t think that is likely. And poor Ami has enough distrust and trauma right now to suspect her own MOTHER. Frankly, I think it’s enough of a betrayal to know about his A.M. account and not tell her. If anything, from what Ami says mom is tilting toward reconciliation. And there is ZERO reason for Ami’s mother to write such a bitchy, hurtful letter. IMO, it’s totally an OW.

      I hope Ami protects herself. At this point, who wrote the letter really doesn’t matter. Since she got the letter, she confirmed dating profiles and an AM account. That’s ENOUGH, IMO.

  • I guess his explanation to my parents was that we were going through a rough patch and put things on hold. He thought the relationship was over. It was a mistake and we worked things out. He’s been committed ever since he said
    His last log into the dating site was about the time we were going through a rough patch. We were arguing and he was distant I was so depressed because I thought he was going to leave me. Was he looking to have some fun on the side or shopping for a replacement?
    We haven’t lived here long. If he’s laying low or something, isn’t doing anything here yet…..Im going to dread everytime I open the mailbox or my email. The postal code was from out of state, he travels some times for work.

    • Ami, I have been following your story and Chump Nation’s comments. As I read your story, until I got to the part about your moving after marriage, I thought I was your husband’s “last girlfriend” — that’s how horribly familiar your husband seems to me. But your husband and the man I was engaged to, are not the same person. They are, however, exactly the same type of human scum. Your husband is a cheater, you just don’t want to believe it. But deep down your gut is screaming, or you wouldn’t have come to Chumplady. You have experienced enough now to know you cannot trust your husband and that gut knowledge is your greatest help to get away from him. I know it’s harder when you’ve just had a baby and want so much for the man you married to be a good husband and father. But the man you married is an illusion, a con, a facade. You will never truly be able to depend on him, nor will your child. You have a good support system in your parents. Let them help you by moving in with them or whatever you need that they can provide to GET OUT of the marital house and divorce. You will uncover a greater extent to the lying and cheating when you do. This man will never be what you thought he was. Get away from him so you can find real love, security and happiness with an honesr man, not a “reformed” player. Your player-husband will never reform, and your love for him does not have the power to change him. Give up that illusion of your own, kick the cheater to the curb, and fix your picker so you won’t get conned by a cheater ever again. Run, don’t walk, Ami. Down the road, not too far or too long, you will be so glad you did. Keep coming to Chump Nation for support. We’ve all been there. We all want you to succeed. God bless.

    • Sorry Ami, but do not count on your husband having some sort of epiphany and suddenly become a stand up guy. It does not work that way. You can sort things out now (leave, divorce, etc) or wait until he dumps you, maybe a year, maybe 10, who knows but you will get discarded. It is going to hurt like hell and you will second guess yourself all the time, but down the road you will be glad that you did not stick around and put up with his cheating.

    • Ami, I keep coming back to that letter and it reveals SO much! The OW is no dummy. She is pretty bright, writes fairly well with an albeit poison pen type blame you tone. Reading that letter brings General Petraeus’ mistress to mind- slender, fit, hard-charging narcissistic ‘Tiger woman’! Ugh. The nick name ‘Turbo’ suggests your husband didn’t go for women schlumpy types in sweat pants in aisle 5 at Walmart. Nope. Don’t put your head in the sand and think hubby is loving- cause he isn’t.

      • That’s why I thought this could be the former FWB, why I still see her as a threat. I met her only once but she was so confident around him and sexy. Im a pretty girl but I felt mousy by comparison. She slapped his ass like a guy would when they said good bye.
        My H confided in me while his last relationship was blowing up. His GF sent snapshots of the texts between she and the FWB she said stuff like “women need to stop blaming each other, he’s a parasitic infection we both contracted” and “don’t be blind”. she also refused his calls and texts and would only speak to the GF.
        I might be grasping at straws but it felt so full circle

  • I get you aren’t ready as well. But please take time to read this site and all the articles about the cheater tactics that will be thrown at you.

    So you were in a rough patch — and yet you remained faithful correct? Also, he is lying. B/c he obviously has still be recently cheating — actually hooking up and having sex with at least the 1 women who wrote the letter. There is no spin on that. It isn’t a bitter ex or a bitter FWB. Its a girl he’s been screwing on the side and lying too. She got angry when she found out he was married, and also apparently that there was another young girl he was also cheating with.

    Its so scary when you realize your whole marriage was a lie. Its normal to want to hold on to that realty, those hopes for the future, what you felt your life is and was. But you must not go into denial. You must not believe the lies. You must feel sorry for him. Stand up for yourself and your son.

    Traveling = lots of time and opportunity to cheat. Is uspect this guy has some secret apps, or a whole other phone you don’t know of.

    have you searched his study? the cell logs? his username via google? google search history?

    • Right, I forgot Ami mentioned the “rough patch” they were going through. No doubt the rough patch was due to her husband being frustrated or feeling trapped because he could not get out & about without an explanation to his whereabouts.

      • Or b/c he was screwing another women which usually results in animosity and distance between the unsuspecting betrayed spouse. The cheating isn’t a result of the rough patch — its usually the cause of it. But that’s part of the mind fuck and blamshift

  • I’m sorry Ami but that wasn’t him confiding to you. That was him displaying his trophies. It was kibble on display. Even negative attention is good attn to him. Look two women fighting about me, discussing me

    You have to believe that this IS ‘just that black and white’. It’s a character disorder and you can waste years in marriage counseling. I’m sure you’ve read here people thought the issue was solved and 20 years later they realized they were duped the entire time. Like one of my clients said ‘he would have been happy to stay married forever as long as I looked the other way’.

    I’m just asking yourself to protect yourself financially. Start squirreling away some cash, start making yourself aware of your families financial situation. Ask your husband to run a credit report and show it to you to see if there are credit cards you are not aware of Check the deed of the house and be sure you are on it. Don’t worry much about being the marriage police — make yourself the money police.

    You don’t have to do something today with regard to your marriage but you can’t pretend you are not at risk. I am very sorry you are going through this.

  • Ami–stories like yours really tug at my heartstrings. I am really sorry you are going through this. It should be a joyous time in your life as a newlywed with a newborn.

    Love really blinds people sometimes. You know your husband well enough to know he’s was “lady killer”. My ex had a reputation, too. -We became romantically involved when we were both single and lived together for 15 years, purchased and renovated a house together. But I was in my early 40’s when we got together, and as I look back I can definitely say to myself, “I should have known better”! Once a cheater, always a cheater… I really don’t think they outgrow it either. They do not change, grow up, or see hurting people as a big deal.

    In my case the MOW was a part of our circle of friends and I was blindsided almost one year ago, in part because MOW and her husband had moved across the country six months before ex’s confession! Their affair had been going on for four years! I had no idea… MOW decided to leave her husband and move back. I asked ex why he didn’t tell me sooner – he said because SHE didn’t want anyone to know. I was appalled. I threw ex the hell out. That was about all the mightiness I had in me. After that I was like a rung out dishrag. I felt powerless.

    In my frozen shock, it was my father who insisted and recommended a family lawyer who helped me negotiate the house buyout with an increased share. I think it’s really important to have trusted people around you while sorting this heavy duty stuff out. I am really glad you confided in your mom.

    I can’t believe I’m saying this but I feel lucky that ex confessed. When there’s more at stake, marriage, child, house, etc., if I was suspicious, I wouldn’t hesitate to hire a PI. -Have a friend who did this – turned out the OW was a girlfriend of hers… But she had the irrefutable proof she needed to proceed with a divorce and settlement.

    Glad you are posting here Ami. Hopefully you will feel more empowered for doing so. -CL & CN gives me a place where I don’t feel so alone because this experience has been very overwhelming. As I remember the early D-day emotions, all I can say is try to keep your strength up for you and your baby- As best you can. Hugs.

  • My H will be back tomorrow morning. I’m usually so excited to see him but I’m full of anxiety. How am I supossed to act around him? Sex isn’t on the table either way because I haven’t been cleared. But he will know something’s up if I don’t give him the attention he’s used to.
    I tore his study apart but didn’t find anything. He took his lap top with him. I searched the phone bill but nothing, which makes sense if there’s a second phone. I made a fake profile on the dating site and messaged him…so far nothing. I contacted a counselor and plan on telling him its a mommy thing when I go.
    My mom says she’ll stay as long as I need and I am welcome to come home. I can’t tell dad or there will be no keeping it to himself.
    I am on the deed and the POA is only if incopaditated. I will look into it.
    I didn’t do anything wrong and I’m paying for it with my sanity. Having to act like I know nothing feels so unfair.

    • So sorry this is happening. Don’t forget that it is happening because of him, though! Even if there is no affair now, his actions of signing up to dating sites using photos that you took while meeting his family has caused a level of insecurity that will haunt you for years to come, unfortunately. It’s really rough, but go into simple observation mode as much as you can. Think of these next few weeks as a game of poker and you’re observing his facial expressions, his reactions to the things that come up in daily life and things regarding your baby, watch his tone of voice and body language if the letter or anything related to possible infidelity comes up. Watch a few youtube videos on how to recognize when someone is lying. It’s all terrible and sucks to have to think of your best friend as the possible betrayer.. but I promise it’ll help put you in a proactive mindset rather than the sheer desperation mode that comes naturally with just finding out about infidelity. Practice some calming breathing techniques too, rely on your Mom when it gets to be too much. If your husband sees that you’re on to him, if he is cheating then he will just get sneakier about everything and become super extra nice to you so you’ll stop suspecting – ask many of us how we know this. Well, this whole deal sucks, no easy way around it. Hang tough and keep coming here for sanity checks. Best to you and your new baby!

  • Ami-
    Here’s where the letter can work for you. You received it, what, two weeks ago? Guess how long I’d be upset? I’d be reeling to receive that letter. It would be perfectly reasonable to say that letter has created doubt and you are trying to sort through it, need time, etc.. Also, it’s scary to receive an anonymous message like that – If your H can’t handle that and doesn’t know why it’s a big deal, what would that tell you?

    It’s great you have your mom right now – and if things become too much, think about going home even if it’s just for a while. It’s great to have options, especially with a new baby.

    Very mighty to contact a counselor, too! And you are so right about not doing anything wrong, and being thrust into a situation where you have to “act” like you know nothing. It sucks. -But it is way to see for yourself. It’s a lot to be caring for a newborn and to have to think straight about something as life changing as infidelity. When you love someone it’s not like that switch just turns off and until you have the proof you need one way or the other I would try to keep an open mind but with very acute powers of observation!

  • Ami, keep us all posted. I really feel for you. My son was 19 months old when my D-day happened. The infidelity diet I was being served stressed me so much I couldn’t, eat, focus or think. It wasbwas rough and I lost about 30 pounds and came down with a cough that lasted for 6 months. Looking back at my decision to stay and try to work things out I regret now as I wasted SO many years with him ( 18! )and he’s caused me financial ruin. A cheater sees you as ‘useful’ and that is what he wants so he has you but can do as he pleases on the down low.

  • Hi Ami – I’m following your story and am quite chilled to the bone because it’s very similar to my life. It’s almost like I’m back in time and seeing it unfold all over again….

    You have so many questions, that unsettled feeling in the pit of your stomach, nauseous n just plain heart broken. I know it all n so does all of chump nation …

    This thing with your husband’s EX- FWB … It’s really bothering you. It is the same thing that stood out to me. Probably because that is very similar to what happened with me. Only difference being I met him after he was done with ( or so he said) all these women….

    It’s not clear when and where you met this woman…if you were just a friend to your H at the time and he was still with his girlfriend when FWB interacted with him.. Or you were his girlfriend when they met.

    In either scenario you felt mousy by comparison probably because of how he reacted to this girl. Despite all the stuff parroted about higher intelligence, sixth sense blah blah, we humans still react instinctively and sub consciously register the body language, voice and interest expressed by others for the most part. If he was indifferent to the girl and genuinely interested the woman he was with, no matter what she did – it would not have mattered.

    Besides, any faithful guy would be embarrassed to have a girl he was intimate with in the past slap his butt in front of a girl he is interested in… He would worry that she (the one he likes n is with) will mistake that gesture and try to provide SOME explanation.

    How did he react to her slapping his butt?

    P.S: in my 37 years, I cannot remember a single time a guy slapped another’s butt for any reason… Slapping each other’s backs, punching each other’s arms, the bro handshake, tackling each other… I probably have seen it all… Testosterone ran rampant in my family growing up… Butt slapping is quite a new idea!

    • I meant the way a guy slaps a girls butt. I met her one night out at a bar in a group. He and I where just friends then and he met the ex GF soon after that night. He wasn’t in a relationship with anyone. I knew he had a roster but she definitely got top billing. He probably did cheat on his ex with her while he strung me along without physically cheating with me. I should have seen all this coming.
      He’s just lounging about today, not a care in the world.

      • Wow. So typical. They sleep like babies while the betrayed is frought with grief, insomnia, weight loss etc. To think, he knows all about the letter….and just has not a care in the world. He really thinks he has everyone fooled.

        You need to put a Voice activated recorder in his car. Also check his phone for apps – snapchat, kik, etc

        He probably just uses private browsing and/or has a secret phone.

        Asshole

      • Ami – he is in the military so check with a lawyer before you do any surveillance on him Other than what goes on in your house – phone, Internet etc… Voice activated recorder plus gps etc..don’t do it without knowing the law. Also check with the lawyer regarding divorce laws in your state vs your home state…

        Find out which state is more amenable to mothers with little kids so you have an edge in custody n visitation matters.

        All this seems extreme to you… You are not ready yet I know but keep an open mind. Just do simple steps that you have to do anyway – 1. make a list from the comments here n keep it somewhere safe.
        2. Prep and copy all your documents AND
        3. revoke your POA when your mother is with you n you can focus on things without worrying about the baby.
        It’s good to know what to do and to stay on top of your financial affairs no matter what.

        Focus on yourself. Focus on the baby. Enjoy every little moment with him.

        If your husband feels you are not showering him with attention that he is used to from you – remind him sweetly that you just pushed out a baby out of your vagina just a month ago … A LIFE created by both of you … So can I please get all the TLC and attention for now?

        How he reacts n what he does will help you decide …

        Tons of hugs to you n your little one…..

  • Also, did you mean POA is only incase of incapacitation? Meaning if you are unable to make decisions he can make them for you? GET THAT REVOKED RIGHT AWAY…. Please.

    • Hold on here unless an estate planning attorney . This kind of POA is very common in estate planning, living trusts, etc. it allows him to make decisions if she is ‘incapacitated’. I hope Ami has one that gives her the same power to act in his behalf if he is incapacitated.

      Incapitated does not mean just ‘down w the flu’.

      It can’t be exercised if she can show she’s not incapacitated.

  • Ami – remember something: Definition of “Mistake” – You go to the dairy aisle to pick up milk and by accident you pick up OJ. Doing something WRONG like cheating, stealing, etc. – is NOT a mistake. People do wrong things because they don’t have the will power or character to do what is RIGHT.

    Start training your brain to STOP making excuses for this guy.

  • Well. I decided to search personal ads on Craigslist. I found a handful that could have described my husband. Age, hight, etc. well I decided to contact the most recent one (the day I picked him up from the airport).
    I used a fake email and I have been going back and forth with him as an interested party but hes reluctant to send a picture. I am convinced I’m communicating with my husband. He is using his phone. How do I confirm its him?

    • Hey Ami. If you’re willing to wade a tiny bit into smutville, maybe try a “I’ve shown you mine, now show me yours” approach. You could send some pic you find on google image search, and wait for him to send one of himself, and hope it’ll contain something on his body that you, uh, recognize. Or you can just bide your time. With enough conversation, something identifying will come out of it. Ask basic questions like level of education, hobbies, “where ya from originally?” etc.

    • Yes you will have to become a detective. See if you can get him to divulge something that would pinpoint it’s him. But not so that he gets suspicious. Could be a pic, or it could be some information. Do you have the phone number?? You could do a reverse look-up. Now sometimes – sometimes – the information companies have are a little outdated. BUT, you can do one through sites like intellus or verified (I think that’s the name …). Do a little research. A look up only costs like 2-3 bucks.

      Take screen shots on your computer if he is using chat not email.

  • Ami, keep up the searches. But don’t share any of your findings with him. He’ll just deny them or come up with red-flag gaslighting phrases like: why are you being so suspicious, there’s nothing going on, you’re making too much of it, you’re reading too much into it, you’re being irrational. Try to stay calm though that’s so difficult right now, and get your ducks in a row.

  • So cant you just get his phone after he goes to sleep and see if he’s sending the emails? I suspect he has a secret email account you don’t know about, that is not directly hooked up to his phone but that he has to log into via a browser.

    Or hell just walk by him and grab the phone then go lock yourself in the bathroom.

    Part of me says, well it could be any of a million people who placed that CL ad. But the fact he has been on his phone while the messaging has happened is very suspect. If it is him….well the fact this OW letter just happened a week or 2 ago, and he is sleeping like a baby and out trolling for more hookups, shows you he does not give a shit, or thinks he is just smarter and better than everyone else.

    Again tho, you know he’s cheated and continues to do so even with your parents knowing about it and you knowing about it. Not sure what more proof you need?
    If you discovery proof he placed the Cl ad — what do you plan to do?

    I suggest you develop a plan – a course of action — before you take anymore action like baiting him. ITs just going to erupt into an emotional outbreak, then he will gaslight/lie/blameshift…and you will be no where.

    the only way to put a stop to this is to separate, and show him you aren’t going to tolerate it.

    Please update us.

  • I am almost positive this was him onCraigslist. He wouldn’t give any big concrete answers, name, number, pics. Because he’s “married and didn’t want that info out there”. He kept wanting to meet in person at locations all under 15min from our house. All the little details I got from talking to him further convinced me it’s him. It’s hard to gather evidence when he is being so careful. Maybe I will have to hire a PI when I go back to work.

    • You say he “kept wanting to meet in person” – Why not agree to meet somewhere and you’ll get your answer there – will he tell you he’s going to run an “errand”? Pay attention when he’s getting ready, when he leaves the house. When you see him at the meeting location you’ll have your answer.

      Also, you may want to post in the Forum section of CL (see the top of the page). You’ll get continued support and advice there as well.

    • I would suggest you retain an attorney first and then have the attorney retain the PI – that way the PI notes and reports are protected from use by your H – From a PI website;

      “If a situation that we investigate goes to trial you may want to choose an attorney before you begin. This way the attorney will employ us instead of you the individual. If your attorney is our client, our reports, and notes wont be open to the other side for discovery. Your file from us is safe under the ” work product ” rule.
      Work product rule : Notes, documents, reports and research materials and the like gathered by a PI in an investigation are confidential information that may disclose the attorneys trial strategy. Attorney work product privilege is one of the five privileges in exemption 5 of the Freedom of Information act, 5 USC 552 (b) (5).”

      Also, the attorney should be able to make sure that any investigation is within legal limits.

      So sorry you are going through this.

    • Don’t do anything else. Stop all this “spy stuff”. You need to get your financial situation in order and approach this situation coolly, not emotionally. You aren’t James Bond. Let him think he’s put one over on you. Hide and watch.

  • Ami, if you meet him he will lie and tell you he knew it was you. You need more proof. Not for court but for your backbone because he is going to gaslight you. I wish people like him would use their abilities for something good. Sadly, you got a dud!

    • Totally agree Let go. He could easily play it like he knew all along. Cheaters are really good at thinking fast on their feet – It’s a fine tuned skill….

      Ami – I don’t know about obtaining proof this way, through a craigslist hook up? What if you meet this person and it’s not him? What then?

  • I don’t see what the big deal is… Ami doesn’t have to actually MEET him… just arrange a meeting, that will tell you if it’s actually him, and then don’t show up… well, you can show up, in that you can go down to the place you agree to meet, and then see if it is him waiting there, but you don’t have to show yourself to him… and you may get feedback in that he’ll have to make some excuse to be away from you at the time. It’s the perfect plan.

    I’m not sure what all the talk is about PIs and evidence? I live in a “no fault” state, so any evidence is irrelevant except for me to have proof for my own head.

    Ami, do you live in a no-fault state? If so, don’t even worry about it… just arrange a meeting… go there and peek around a corner to see if he’s there… or just drive past to see if his car is there… and you have what you need… proof for your own head.

    Besides, won’t it be fun to know this narcissistic asshole got stood up?! Hah! Imagine how much it will bug someone with that big an ego that someone couldn’t even be bothered meeting up with him.

    If he contacts you later to yell at you for standing him up, just don’t reply. Ever. Easy.

    • I think I’d make a plan with a reliable witness. Arrange a meeting with your husband by text/email and then show up dressed in disguise (wig and sun glasses) in a public place. Have the witness videotape the encounter between you and your very surprised husband. What would really be great is to do this and when he shows up have the witness serve him with divorce papers an attorney would have prepared in advance to include a temporary restraining order and a request for primary custody.

  • Wigs, witnesses, custody restraining orders — That’s a lot of work and effort and frankly I dont think is healthy for her. She could set the “meet up” — see if he disappears at that time, and you have your answer. If you need to, go watch from a distance to confirm that’s where he went. Don’t confront him there. Don’t confront him ever.

    Just confirm he is cheating or attempting to cheat them act on that knowledge doing whatever is best in your interest, ie meeting with a lawyer

    If you confront him, he will just deny and say he knew it was you.

    I get you probably aren’t ready to just hand him divorce papers at this point, BUT what you really might consider is having a consult with a lawyer to educate yourself on the process and standards in your state in the event you go that route AND getting individual counseling for yourself to help deal with this trauma.

  • Mine did it and lied to us both (myself and the OW). Here is how he did it:

    He was pretending to go to work.
    Not just extra overtime – which he also did fake once a week, that I believed (sort of, I was highly suspicious) because it was the holiday season (3 years ago now) … but in addition he was actually taking 2 days off a week to spend with her on his fake work days. He left wearing his ready-to-dirty work clothes, snuck a change of clean, nice clothes, in with his tools.
    He got fired for all the time off after a few weeks. Of course he used that, too, for a week after, and kept faking going to work to keep up appearances. Once I found out he was fired he started making excuses to her, because he couldn’t sneak out anymore.

    He told her I was his crazy ex and he had been trying to move out and didn’t have a place yet. That he slept on the couch and we rarely ever saw each other. That covered why he couldn’t bring her home.
    She bought it as a legitimate excuse because she was “separated” from her husband and living with a family member, as she herself had nowhere else to go.

    He NEVER called or texted her.
    He sent messages from a secret email account only, always from his phone that he logged into on private setting. It worked out well because she used her phone for only texting. He told her he sometimes didn’t get texts because of the crappy phone company, hence needing to communicate through email. Plus added in if she ever did get a text from his phone, he forewarned it wasn’t him, but it was his psycho-ex trying to destroy his happiness by playing manipulative games.

    The moment she found out he lied about being married she stopped all communication with him, blocked him everywhere, and started seeing someone else immediately. She also forwarded me every one of those emails. They were painful as hell but they really helped me see him clearly. I have not believed a word he says, since.

    I think she was gullible a bit (she was 21 at the time, as well) but he covered his bases, big time.
    He told her I was the lying cheater. That our children weren’t really his but he stayed to protect them because I was psychotic. He was always the victim. He fed her an entire shimmering rainbow pile of hot-steaming-bullshit.

    It wasn’t the only time he cheated.
    Some of his other lies I found out:
    – I was his sister and he was staying with me and helping me raise my kids.
    – Another was he never could talk on the phone or bring his OW home because he had 2 very rowdy male roommates that were assholes, which was me and our at-the-time 6 year old daughter.

    Every OW/OM was from a nearby city or town, so he had no problem going out in public with them, no doubt with his head high and a shit-eating grin on his face as he was “getting away with it”.
    He never told them about me.

    Of course now I don’t trust anyone in the world but eventually that will hopefully change.
    So I certainly think it can happen from my own experience.
    Liars will go all out to have their cake.

  • Run and run fast, my ex pulled this garbage and I also received multiple letters from two different women. He liked playing the good old daddy role, the good old Christian Choir boy role, the good husband, and it was ALL FOR HIS BUSINESS IMAGE! A big show, a big put on, he rammed my credit into the ground to fund his business ventures and then up and left for a 22 year old gal that ended up kicking him to the curb 6 months later. Guess it served him right for what he did to everyone else. It’s called KARMA, UNIVERSAL PRINCIPLES, what goes around comes around. His first ex wife tried to warn me, when he was turned in two different occasions for flirting and harassing women at his old corporate job. He thought he was the cat’s meow with women. He would LIE LIE LIE and DENY DENY DENY. When he was suppose to be crunching #’s and getting clients he was out and about having two hour lunches with his wet behind the ears skanks. I actually feel sorry for those other gals he fed everyone a line, he was a MALIGNANT NARCISSIST, glad to be rid of him and his evil.

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