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We Could Be Friends!

cheater_just_friendsOne submission that I get over and over again for “Stupid Shit Cheaters Say” is the cheater insists — you know, you’d really like the affair partner! You’re a lot alike! You could be friends!

The betrayed person is absolutely gobsmacked by this (clearly, or they wouldn’t submit such nonsense to be immortalized in cartoon form at Chump Lady).

Which got me thinking — why is this? Why does the cheater think that gee, if you only knew their fuckbuddy, you’d love them too? Sometimes the cheater is lucid enough to add the caveat “under different circumstances…” But usually not. Usually, it’s some “sister wives” or queen bee fantasy. Everyone united around the centrality of awesomeness that is the cheater.

Let me posit some theories on why a cheater would say something so patently moronic.

1. All kibbles are good kibbles. It’s a pretty good look inside their wee, narcissistic noggins that they view you and the fuckbuddy in the same light. You like me! They like me! You both like ME! You have so much in common! Namely, ME! It’s all just kibbles to the cheater. You’re a kibble source, they’re a kibble source. You’re interchangeable really. And if either of you stops being a source, another source can be found.

2. They’re good because I said so. If the fuck buddy is a bad person, then that reflects badly on the cheater. So let’s say they are a good person! A charming, benign kibble source. You’d like them, because you’re alike! (That was a compliment from your cheater, did you miss that?) Cheaters think they deserve only special people because they’re so special themselves. To say you’re a lot like the fuckbuddy is their weird way of telling you, hey, you’re one of the lucky chosen few, and don’t you want to keep your special place? (Cue the humiliating dance of “pick me.”)

3. The cheater is not very original. It may be in a very superficial way, you are similar to the fuck buddy. You both have big tits, or you’re both brunettes, or both had the same college major. The cheater may have a type. You’re being very narrow minded dwelling on the fact that you don’t share a penchant for fucking married people.

4. Us all being friends would be very ideal for cake eating. Until D-Day, apparently this fuck buddy wasn’t someone that they were going to introduce you to. But now that you’re aware of their existence, hey, let’s just all be friends. Wouldn’t that be great? Don’t consider this person a threat — nah, they’re someone — if you just took the time to know them better — that could be a friend. The problem isn’t that the cheater is cheating on you — the problem is that you’re just looking at it all wrong.

Hope that explains it, chumps.

This column ran previously. Feel free to comment! 

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  • I think we’ve all heard a version of this before. Plus “Oh, she’s such a nice person!” Puke.

    What I hate about this plea to make friends is that puts yet even more blame on the chump for not being a big-enough person to be friends with this supposedly ‘nice’ person.

    • Oh so true. I left 8 months ago and tortured myself for 7 because I wanted so badly to stay in his orbit by remaining his friend, and eventually buying into the idea that we could ALL be friends. I beat myself up for not measuring up to that noble and (self) righteous goal. But I figured out you don’t have to be friends with someone who set out to destroy you, just because they SAY SO.

      • Mine tried to leave me for dead, but figured it would be better for us to stay close friends so he wouldn’t feel or look so bad. Tough shit not my job to eliviate his guilt or make him look good. That would be the whores job now and good luck with that! Me and him friends, not gonna happen.

    • My ex cheated on me with my first cousin, and destroyed our family with three kids.

      It really helps when she asked me if we could all be friends!

      • Your first cousin! I’m so sorry! My uncle’s first wife of less than a year cheated on him with his best friend, so he lost the two closest people to him in one fell swoop. He later found an honorable wife and they’ve been together for over 30 years. I just don’t understand what gets into these people’s minds.

        • The affair partner in my case was the neighbor. When they got caught they “chose” (both betrayed spouses saying “see ya” had nothing to do with it) each other.

          She’s a miserable bitch who yells, screams and fights with everyone. She is uneducated and shallow. She is lazy and demanding. Pretty much the opposite of me. I was only friendly with her (before the affair) because she lived 2 houses over. Hope he’s having fun being stuck with that!

          Both could be on their best behaviour when it was sneak around an hour here or there, but they moved in together because he lost the house to foreclosure and they are seeing each other’s true colors now.

    • LiningUpDucks, you nailed my sparkly and groovy ex-wife’s MO. I am the turd for drawing reasonable and protective lines between me and her. What’s my problem?

      This came out of my ex wife’s mouth this summer: “How could you have bought that $400 piece of equipment from one of The Other Man’s competitors and not from his small business? He would have given you a discount. People will see that as petty”

      • Deadhusband was going to get OWs fiance (a high end jeweler) to give him a good deal on a piece of jewelry for me. I said I would sooner wrap wire around my dogs poop and wear that before I would accept jewelry from OW

        • I laughed so hard I almost sprayed my dog with eggnog unicornomore!!!!

          Yes! I would choose the dog poop over that jewelry too!!!

        • If its OW’s fiance – he probably wasn’t in the know himself – and is a chump too. What a mindfuck – to use the other chump against you.

          • No, OWs fiance wasn’t going to be used against me, he was going to be tricked into selling my nowdeadh a new set of wedding rings (at discount) for me as a show to both he and I that they were so supportive of their first relationships that they couldnt possibly be having an affair. It was a double agent mindfuck – but I figured it out and wouldnt go along with it.

            From what I know, her fiance never did know about their affair. They had a “fabulous” wedding after she and H broke up, had 2 kids and later divorced.

            Im so glad I didnt get that “gift” what the hell would I do with it now? I told my new husband that I was “too old for a ‘starter’ engagement ring”. I now joke that we shopped for my rings on 3 continents because we got engaged in Asia then went to the easternmost section of Europe on that trip (european Istanbul) then back to north America.

            My story ended well. Merry Christmas !

      • Oooooooooh, I wanna buy something from OM’s competitor, too!! And send a lovely note to OM letting him know why!

      • My ex owned a building supplies business which I helped him run while we were married. During our divorce, STBX moved out. Shortly thereafter OUR dog destroyed a screen door on the house. STBX wouldn’t re-screen it for me for free because I was living in the house. (I was insane to think he’d have a heart) but he offered to give me a $5 discount… I took it to his competitor instead and told the guy what a jerk my STBX was being about it. He happily fixed it for less!!! I’m sure my visit to the competition was a nice tidbit for the local rumor mill.

      • Lol. I think it’s because cheaters are so callous themselves. Almost anyone looks nice to them since that person very well may be nicer than the cheater. Plus, as a bonus, they give kibbles. However, is the OW or OM nice compared to most other people in this world? No. Just no. But we’re not looking at it from most people’s perspective.

        • They can also be narcissistic, so if the OP gives them kibbles, hey, they’re nice! My STBXH went on about how OW thought he was amazing

  • What a mindfuck. I got the opposite- when I asked who the AP was, I was told he “wasn’t ready” to tell me.

    • When I asked Asshat who she was, he replied, “You don’t need to know.” When I asked if I was supposed to walk around thinking every woman was going to shoot me in the head, he was offended and replied, “You don’t need to worry. I don’t even work closely with her anymore.”

      • One of the Stbx fuck buddies was his best friends wife. When I found out and asked her she begged me to forgive! Then wanted to have dinner with me to explain her actions and how it didn’t mean anything to her. He was just like it didn’t mean anything. Of course they are still friends and I wanted to tell his friend so bad!!

      • Same here; mine claimed she had “privacy rights” since she had been one of his students. I didn’t ask for her f’ing GRE scores; she fucked my husband. Pretty sure FERPA doesn’t cover that.

        • The letter I carry around in my purse details Florence’s HIPAA violations. Of course they couldn’t include her name, even though I gave them her name in order to run the audit, bc that would violate HER privacy. I did ask several times if the police or anyone was allowed to see the letter and was assured it is my letter and I can do what i want with it. Hello, full page classified ad! LOL

        • Lol! Mine tried to say i was violating his privacy rights by submitting to the Court screenshots of his profiles from gay meet-strangers-for-sex websites (complete with profile pic of micropenis). The judge laughed as she explained that the internet isn’t the place to put things you’d like to keep private.

    • Yes, my cheater also refused to tell me her name. It was easy to find when I went through the papers he left on his desk that night I kicked him out. She had sent him a mushy post card with a love poem on the back. Later she also mailed him a card that I could see through the envelope had a line drawing of a naked woman on the front of the card. He got mad at me for looking at it, well it was mailed to my FUCKING HOME mailbox, you idiot! Then when I kicked him out he refused to tell me where he was sleeping (after sixteen years of living under the same roof) because he said, “Because it is a concession to me, I am not at liberty to say.”

    • I got that too, although not the “I’m not ready to tell you” I got the “I’m afraid of what you will do to him”

      • Mine refused to tell me where he was living too after 16 1/2 years of living under the same roof. I got: “I won’t tell you because I don’t trust you in your anger.” Mind you, he claimed he was living with a “buddy”. Damn straight he was, a FUCK buddy!

        • He also wouldn’t tell me the name of his co-worker that he was “interested in” that would send him “flirtatious texts and have occasional lunches”. He told me, she was “irrelevant”. Well, Ms. Irrelevant is now the new Mrs.

          • The language here really blows me away. You can spend years and years with a person, and never once would they speak this way. But, as soon as they’re busted, they pull out “I’m not at liberty to say,” or “I don’t trust you in anger,” or “She’s irrelevant.” Like they’re doing damage control on “Meet the Press.”

            “I’m not at liberty to say.” loooool

            • Mine told me he didn’t feel “safe” with me after DDay! No details. I sat in a therapist’s office with him while he waxed on and on about his “girlfriend” and how being the OW had been so unfair to “Poor Vajayjay” and how she’d had to settle for a part-time boyfriend. This is when I recognized Toxic Narcissism. No empathy for his wife!!!

        • I still don’t know who the AP is!!

          I think not revealing who the AP is, is about power & control. They enjoyed having a secret, and post D-Day, it’s one last thing they cling on to to keep a bit of power. “I’m not at liberty to say” smacks of this. It’s almost school-ground childish “I’m not telling you, nah nah nah nah”

          “I’m not ready to say yet” – it’s all so selfish too. It’s keeping it about them and their needs and their pace, and not treating our perfectly reasonable questions with respect.

          Blaming your potential future angry response for withholding information is just more mindfuckery.

          Sorry to go so off-topic!

          • How about “I don’t know how to tell you. I just can’t talk to you about it. I don’t know how.” Oh the BS I believed for too many years. I so regret procreating with the FUT (f**king useless twit). I love my kids but I hate what his actions have done to them. Feeling a wee bit pissed off today as FUT sends me text regarding visitation (words) with no follow thru (action). Are the kids suppose to hang out to dry while he decides IF he MIGHT want to see them over Xmas. ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            • Just plan Christmas with you and the kids, and fuck what he thinks. If he wanted Christmas with them, he would have given you advanced warning.
              In fact, I’d take it one step further and turn off my phone/ignore all phone calls entirely on Christmas Day. You already have proof hes a deadbeat and not really interested – thus it can’t be used against you in any real facility.

              • Every year my ex travels 500 miles to hijack Christmas with the kids, and they still believe they need toxic in their lives. My eldest gets it but still puts up with the BS. We are planning a trip across country next holiday to prevent the usual cluster fuck holiday with in laws, my fucked up folks, and the never ending shit sandwich of A “relationship” with a POS Narc.

          • OMG, Off the crazy train, the four months I spent not knowing who the OW was were hellacious. Ignorance is no longer bliss when your head is spinning like that. Your cheater is a freaking dickwad! Asshat was pretty patronizing about the whole thing. “I don’t think you need to know. What difference will it make?” He all but accused me of being the one who would behave inappropriately, go crazy and hurt somebody when out of the three of us, I am the one who didn’t do any of the above. Then one day when he was giddy that I might consider reconciling (that’s just what I told him to buy time) and he was criticizing someone for being a drama queen, he pointed out that that’s what’s so great about me. No drama, no craziness. What. The. Fuck.

          • Ha – mine told me to “figure out” who the AP was. So I used my power of attorney to pull his PayPal accounts and credit card records and within 2 weeks of that challenge, I knew. AP had been sending him PayPal money requests and asking him for cash. Anyone else would have realized she was simply an opportunist, but his ego wouldn’t allow him to believe that. He actually told me, Janus, you’re a good person. You would want to help out someone in need.

      • He initially refused to tell me too, but I got it out of him pretty quickly. I think I’d make a great interrogator in another life. He still refused to give me her name, but I knew some defining characteristics about her so I quickly sent a facebook message to a mutual coworker I was friendly with and made up a story about throwing him a surprise birthday party and was trying to figure out the name of the coworker. She responded right away and I was in! The OW facebook blocked me a day or so later but in the meantime I got to see all the stuff she had been posting on his wall and how brazen she was. I trusted my ex-husband completely so I never even noticed it.

    • It is all about image management. If chumps don’t know the identity of the AP, s/he can be later introduced as a new person post-separation/divorce.

      I found out who the AP was pretty quickly, and then used that early phase of shame and panic they were both feeling. I made my requests all about them, how they are feeling, and what they hoped for their futures now that I knew about them. That got me written confessions from both my cheater and his AP. It is not my word against theirs anymore. Their respective characters (or lack thereof) come out loud and clear through the twisted justifications they used to excuse their chosen course of action. By the time they realized that I had been in touch with both of them, I had all I needed. And of course, as CL put it so well, my X went from charm/poor sausage channels to rage in seconds when he realized what happened.

      I now show these documents when I get asked by friends or family why I divorced him or why I don’t want to be friends with her for the sake of our kid (she moved in with him from out of town a few months after we separated). After reading these, no one questions my course of action when it comes to my X and his girl-tress.

      Knowledge, preferably in writing, is power chumps, be the aikido-ka of cheating, use cheaters’ character flaws against them, make it all about their feelings post-DDay and get as much evidence about their actions as possible. Then go shock and awe and forge on to Meh, grey rock style.

      • That is, forgive the language, fucking brilliant! Well done.
        Any sort of written evidence in this fashion seems somewhat ‘more believeable’ to people who aren’t in the know, social circle-wise.

        • Saddam would never fall for that shit, he was very careful, he knew the legalities and would not put any thing in writing. I only wish I’d ignored the lawyer and recorded all his shit sooner. His desire to stay married or at least get most of our assets and alimony is what clued me to false RIC. He wouldn’t answer my requirements in email, he told me all I wanted was proof of his affair. And never seeing her again was a deal breaker anyway cos she was his “friend “. Sass am was a smart asshole

          • Thanks Lania and Tempest!

            Dat – Given his background (and his knowledge of mine), I was actually floored when he replied. I am quite glad I also used the ipad he gave me of Mother’s day in a whole new way immediately post-DDay…

          • All it takes is one slipup, Dat – and sometimes these guys who think they are being careful, will be the exact opposite. Especially if you restrict all communication to email-only and refuse to take any phone calls or in-person interaction. The lack of control/kibbles causes them to do crazy/stupid things, and BAM! Owned.
            (Though, Saddam does sound like a real piece of work and unfortunately didn’t happen in your situation :()

            • That’s pretty much what happened Lania… I had been refusing to meet and email had been our only mode of communication for a few months.

              In addition, it was right before we were meeting for out-of-court mediation. Add to that my uber-chumpy wording that was all about wanting to understand what happened, to help us both move on, and my wishes to make our divorce as quick and easy as possible. And voila… One slip is indeed all it takes…

              • Might sound horrible, but manipulating the circumstances to make it look like its benefitting them, but is actually benefitting you – is the best sort of defense-turned-offense.
                Also, restricting their modes of communication kinda puts them in a corner, and they just simply can’t help themselves when it comes to making stuff all about them. Kinda using their disorder against them. 🙂

      • “Knowledge, preferably in writing, is power chumps, be the aikido-ka of cheating, use cheaters’ character flaws against them, make it all about their feelings post-DDay and get as much evidence about their actions as possible. Then go shock and awe and forge on to Meh, grey rock style.”

        Chumptitude, You are my fucking HERO!!!!! What a great special ops commander you would make. Loved reading this. Merry Christmas!!!!

    • Yep, same here- I found out about the OW when her MOM contacted a friend of mine – she found out we were friends by trolling through my FB page — and friend wouldn’t tell me her name either, but told me enough…anyway, when The Evil One’s lies to OW were exposed by her mom snooping around, he came and yelled in my face, “Why won’t you let me be happy!!!” I asked him very calmly who was she, and he yelled back, “I’m just talking to her- she’s a friend!!!” Yeah right a “friend” that you have lied to already (just two weeks of knowing her, and mom goes snooping) and comes to my house and blows up in my face over, rrrrright!!!!!

      I found out on my own anyway- in the end it didn’t matter how many of his lies were exposed— she chose to still date him and is now married to him in less than 5 months. UGH!!!

      She is with him every drop-off, she is around my daughter every other weekend, but I have NEVER been introduced to her, nor has TEO even suggested that we do so.

      No, I have NEVER asked to meet her either– not because I will beat her ass, or cuss her out or anything like that. I know I won’t because I don’t care to. I have never tried to contact her, speak to her, call her, text her- nothing. She deserves everything that he puts her through and I know one day we will have a face-to-face, just not anytime soon.

    • I would say, “Are you ready to get a divorce then?” Because, if you can’t tell me, you’ll be getting one. Then, file for divorce anyway after he tells you, because he wasn’t honest with you. Why be honest with him.

  • OMG yes this is exactly what my cheating husband said to me, he would like it if I could be friends with his skank WTF I don’t think so… We do not share the same values or moral standards so fuck off end of story 🙂

    • My STBX told me that his AP and I were quite similar and that I would like the AP. Notable similarities: both female, both brunette, both studied psychology in graduate school. Notable differences: AP committed adultery (with multiple married men); I, Wife, did not commit adultery; AP got multiple DUIs; I have never driven under the influence of any drug; AP has no kids; I have kids (who will suffer from having a father who repeatedly does foolish, unethical things).

  • “She is a really great person, I can tell because she is good at her job” (My trashman is good at his job but I am not planning to have sex with him. I care for dying children as a job and nothing about that strikes you as “good”). “She is Christlike” (Jesus had sex his married guys he hung with?) “I felt so bad for her because she was cheated on” (Chump Nation does a collective facepalm).

    • SMH. Seriously, I really just smacked my head reading this Unicorn. And bless you for the care you give to dying children. I can’t imagine…

      • That’s just the height of hypocrisy!!!! unbelievable. My Ex also said, when complaining about how upset I was to discover his cheating, that I wasn’t treating him “fairly.” I asked, what exactly do you expect me to do? He replied, “all I am asking is that you treat me the way you wish to be treated.” LOL these narcs are amazing!

        • TheMuse, did you tell him that you WERE treating him the way you wanted to be treated by STAYING FAITHFUL to him? Did you tell him that perhaps you should treat HIM the way he treated YOU, by having sex with another man while married to HIM?

          These narcs will twist ANYTHING around!

          • I said, “well for starters I’d like to NOT be lied to and cheated on!!!!!” the twisted narc thinking is simply astounding.

      • The very first time I met OW, I had that horrible sinking feeling she and the snake were too close. He was bending over backward to be sickeningly chivalrous toward her, and they were both nervously chattering about the business trip from which they’d just returned.

        This was probably about 4 years ago. As uncomfortable as I was about them, snake travelled for work frequently and I couldn’t DO anything about it, and I had no proof, and he was a master gaslighter – I’d mentioned suspicions about other women in the past, and paid dearly for it,

        DDay was a series of emails which proved to me my gut was right about them being too close – it was an EA, if not more – no question in my mind.

        But there she was expressing her utter devastation about her ex cheating on her. She was basically in an EA with my husband virtually the whole time she was with her ex.

        Seriously, bitch, don’t you have a fucking clue how affairs start? You know, when a married man on a business trip starts complaining about his wife. When you start sharing all these private little jokes. When he’s telling you how sexy you are ….Does she not know she was inappropriate with MY husband throughout HER entire marriage, or close to it?

        Boggles the mind ….

        • Snakebitnomore, JUST is their favorite word. As in “We’re JUST friends”. Or “We JUST flirt”. “It’s not an affair, we JUST share every intimate detail of our lives”. This idiot probably thought that since they weren’t sleeping together (yeah, right) she wasn’t cheating like her husband was. Favorite word. It helps them JUSTify their shitty behavior.

          • Uneffingbelievable, yep . . . their fav . . . I heard it so many times after DDay that I thought it was his new mantra (he chanted mantras all the time because he was living such a spiritual life . . . I got confused . . . cheating MUST be spiritual, right? Okay. Now I’ve got it. But wait . . . ) and all the while telling me how much he loved ME.

            “JUST friends” my ass. Qualifiers don’t change the facts.

            Sorry. This topic seems to have made me a teeny bit crabby.

            • Virago, mine was soooo spiritual, I’m still confused as hell. All his “spiritual”” friends are big fuck ups.

      • Then she’s doubly sick as she should know better than you dish out what she recieved and what hurt her so much.

      • Wow! Just wow. I agree. She should know better than to dish out what she received.

        I have a story about that. I am a friendly, touchy person but in a very innocent way and occasionally that gets me in trouble. I had a married man proposition me. There was no way in hell I was going to sleep with a married man. In fact, the thought disgusted me. I have values. I don’t want to betray someone else the way I was betrayed. If I want to sleep with someone, I will find a single guy.

    • …seriously unicornnomore…satan said the same to me also…’…she is an abused woman! You don’t need to know who she is! You will just make HER LIFE WORSE than it already is!’

      I pulled up the sleeves to reveal the bruises he’d put there and asked, ‘Is she bruised up like I am? Does her husband beat on her like you beat on me?’

      …he went and took a shower…shaking his head as he went like he was trying to figure out MY malfunction. Soul sucking asshole.

      • Jeep, I hope you ran like hell right then or soon after that. The fact that he could disassociate the abuse he was inflicting on you shows some bad pathology. Im sorry that happened to you

        • Thank you unicornomore! Yes!!! I ran right away! My youngest son told me one way or another I was leaving that house…under my own power or over his shoulder!

          He took me to his lawyer the next day and I filed. Yes…satan is a sick, evil, empty, nasty piece of work.

        • NCStevie 🙂 it would seem so reading here!!!! I don’t know how satan holds his head up in the world! Or sleeps at night! I guess that is a couple of the perks of being disordered – they neither know NOR DO THEY CARE what they do to others!

    • OUCH!!!! LOL My God, these fucktards amaze me— just when you think you’ve heard it all…

      I got the rundown on OW from my friend— apparently OW was “repeatedly cheated on by her husband, he even called her/told her the day after their second child was born to tell her that he was leaving her for a Hooters’ girl he met (either in the or from the) Phillippines…”

      Then a few weeks later, The Evil One told me her ex- was ordered to pay her $3,000.00 a month in child support + pay her car payment but ‘doesn’t pay her shit’…” to which I laughed out in his face and charged him with, “You don’t haven’t paid me shit either— who are you to talk shit about?!?!?!” That shut him up, but all he did by telling me that was to make even more be disgusted with her— so you’re going to go from being cheated on to being the OWhore?!?!?!?! Good job, Kabrina!!!! DUMBASS!!!!

  • Ah, no not gonna be friends with either one. He stopped being my friend the day he added his lot to the other sick fucks on the bondage websites. And then had sex with many of them unprotected. The whore he left me for doesn’t know about this. I tend to think of creatures like him as narcassit convoluted pea brains. No thank you sure don’t need friends like that. I believe he wants to be friends for yes kibbles but so he can feel better about himself see, she still talks to me I’m a good guy didn’t hurt her one bit!

  • My ex stated that we could be “friends” but he also added that we could be “f/buddies” and we weren’t even divorced at the stage. My skin crawled and I almost vomited. He was at the stage in life where he wanted to play at or be a Romeo and a player. Having said that, my ex would no be game enough to speak with me now and he knows what the result would be if he tried to inform me how nice his 23 year old tart is. I think he likes living !!

    • TEO actually told me that “even if we were serious with someone else, I would still want to get together with you and have our fun like we used to…”

      Then one afternoon, he came by and saw that I had company (after the divorce was final) and then came to the door with this shit eating grin on his face and lust in his eyes…I told him straight up to go home to his woman- that I would NEVER be anyone’s side-piece or back-door action, or dirty little secret…he actually cried when I rejected him, said, “Enjoy your happiness” to which I said, “Isn’t that why you abandoned me— so you could be happy?” He responded with, “I’ll never be happy” then left…IDIOT.

  • Mine is now having the OW reach out to our daughter to prove how functional it would be if everyone got along. Facebook and Instagram likes, text messaging and phone calls, smiling face emoji’s with kisses blown her way. All done to validate their relationship. OW and daddy dearest weren’t overly worried about how our daughter felt when they were sneaking around. Now it seems that us all be friendly would be in our daughter’s best interest. And of course since our daughter is desperate for daddy’s attention she now reaches out to the OW. Could I add lettuce, pickles and mustard to that shit sandwich please!

    • Holyshit, I hate the mind-fuckery that happens after the cat is out the bag. Same crap I am going through now. First they tried to convince my daughter that no relationship existed until the divorce. HOWEVER my daughter was dragged on to these dates and now they are trying to convince her they are a couple because she brought them together.

      The gas-lighting and mind-fuckery is way over the top. I sure as hell hope my daughter snaps out of it soon and sees it for what it is and the truth!

      • Kids often feel they are to blame when their parents break up. And here they are basically confirming what is every child’s worst fear! That’s taking triangulation to a whole new level of despicable.

        I’m so sorry, Lothos. How old is your daughter? Is she in counseling?

        • She is 12 years old and yes she has counseling. Still a mind job her mother is doing to try and cover up the adultery. Make the child seem like she brought them together AFTER we separated. Talk about Gas Lighting a childs memory!

          • Stayin Strong and Lothos – your kids need to know that they don’t have to tolerate that sort of crap – and that if it smells like bullshit, it generally is bullshit. And no amount of bullshit is worth a tiny amount of validation from a fuckwit parent, and they have the right to say BACK THE FUCK OFF to the OW/OM – they aren’t the parent, so they get no fucking say in the matter. No doubt you guys are already trying to let them know this, though.
            Stayin Strong: OW is a pathetic twit – who in their fucking right mind texts vapid shit like that as an adult? Someone disordered, thats what. Grow the fuck up, I say.

            • Thanks Lania, I couldn’t agree more. I think my daughter believes that if she is nice to the other woman then her father will see some value to her and keep her in his life. Her initial reaction when he left was that he “threw us all away like trash”. She was correct. But since then she has met the OW and has told me that she is really nice. I don’t think that I would ever describe a mistress as nice and she certainly didn’t give a shit about my kids while she was sneaking around with my husband. But FMT’s comment about triangulation is spot on. The OW plays nice to my daughter so that my ex thinks she is special. My ex acts like a wonderful caring father because it covers up his attachment disorder with the OW. The only one who will be hurt by all of this is my daughter.

              My ex lives 2000 miles away from us now so he can invent whatever story he wants to the other woman about how much he misses our kids and how he tries to be a great long distance dad. She only knows what he tells her. The reality is perhaps a 10 minute phone conversation once a week and occasional texts. He has no idea what the kids have been through. Has no real idea what their lives are like and certainly never asks any probing questions. (Lots of talk about the weather). And yes, we do have another child that has seen his father’s dysfunction his entire life and chooses not to deal with his father anymore. (The affair was the final straw for my son) My ex knows this so he is now putting his focus on our daughter. They love to send pictures of their fun filled life to my daughter, telling her what a great time they are having and that they wish she could be with them. It really is the mind fucks of all mind fucks. Just hoping one of these days she sees through the bullshit.

              • These ‘fake-happy’ pictures can be a great tool to teach your daughter about the ‘actions, not words’ life lesson. That it doesn’t matter what words they are spewing out, that if their actions don’t line up – its bullshit. It also is a great tool to teach her the “If someone does bad things, they are a bad person” life lesson as well.

                Your daughter, if shes perceptive, will think about it deeply and then be like “Hey yeah, this guy just spews words out his cake-hole but really doesn’t have any actions to back it up, unless it benefits him in some way. Or makes him look good to the whore. No self respecting person thieves what is not rightfully theirs, and is still considered a good person.”

                Your daughter is worth more than trying to appease an arsehole just to get semi-kibbles from someone who was fully intent on screwing her whole family dynamic up. This is why it is so so so very important that kids of a cheating parent are told age-appropriate truth of the situation.

              • I’m sorry. I agree the OW is not a nice person deep down inside. She certainly made some choices without any concern for how it would hurt you and your children.

                I’m sorry your daughter is in this position. Like Chump Lady said in one of her posts, kids love both parents and if the price of admission for having a relationship with a parent is tolerating the OM or OW, kids will usually pay it. It sucks, but I’m glad your daughter has you and that you have her in counseling.

              • SueB, as an (adult) child of a cheater – thats not always true. I despise my father for what he did to my mother. And I certainly don’t want anything to do with his sub-continential whore.

    • Holy shit, Lothos & StayinStrong!!!!

      My first husband’s wife after me did this shit- they were 9 & 3 when we divorced, and for the next 6 years they had to put up with their bitch step-mom talking shit about me and trying to show me out to be such a shit mom, and my ex- allowed it and used her as his bullshit-shield (Oh, Molly- you want to take the kids for the night even though it’s not your night?! Let me ask wife #3, oh damn sorry- she says no)

      My oldest, even at 9 saw right through her shit- she was was the OW and despite my ex’s denials, my son knew it to be true…my then-3-year-old was more easily swayed because he was so young, but it didn’t take him long.

      It really sucks to see your own kids dragged into this bullshit game they play and I look back and wonder how the hell did I survive? How did the kids survive and overcome? How did I not end up in a nuthouse or jail??? All I can say is that not for God keeping me sane, and some really good, wise people in my life then (and now)…

      Prayers, love, hugs, support going out to you two and all the other Chumps out there going through this…

  • Yep, he told me we would be great friends under different circumstances. As if that made it ok. His new GF is now 8 months pregnant only knowing my still current husband for only 10 months. I don’t talk to him and have never meet her but my kids think we should be friends because we are so much alike. Apperently he likes the same brand of kibble. And I filed for divorce three weeks before he started dating his new supply. The OW didn’t work out. But how do you explain to your kids you don’t want to be friend with a woman stupid enough to get pregnant by a man that cheated, abandoned his family to pursue his sexapades with who ever had a vagina, lost his job and was sleeping on his sisters couch while his wife put everything in storage because she had to move in with her parents because they “are not my problem anymore”. And she still thinks she found the love of her life and lives to play happy family with my kids. I think when it blows up in her face because he is already cheating on her I’ll direct her to Chump Lady. But that’s about as friendly as I can get.

    • Please don’t direct OWs here – especially non-remorseful ones. We don’t need the dramatic bullshit, or the self-justification crap here. And it would trigger quite a few people here too.

      • It’s lot more fun when the OWhores stay on their own blogs. I just hit one up, and there they are, bitching about mm spending time with wife or kids. How he is taking advantage of their retarded asses. How he would really be with them if he ” could “. News flash, ow, they could be with you, they just don’t want to be, lol. Delusional, much? Nothing raises my spirit more than seeing how stupid these bitches really are.

      • I read it that she was the OW, or if not, otherwise trying to ingratiate herself into her children’s lives, which are none of her business anyway.

  • Cheater thought process: Looking good is everything. Appearance trumps reality. I have to come out looking like the good person who took the high road in the end regardless of what is true. Easy for me, I’m not sad, I’m getting what I want, so all I have to do is stay calm and my chump will look crazy, problem solved.

    • Exactly, I got mostly what I wanted so when house is sold. Off I go and never look back. He wants me to erase the last two years and remember the good. Nope erasing the last thirty. Adios motherfucker!

        • Marked711, I was also doing my best to block from my mind the last 46 years. I now realise that I was very important to my family because I was the glue that held it together but I was not important to the ex husband. I won’t forget those years but I will remember never to be abused by a predator ever again. My picker was working back then and I ignored it. Never again. I often think of my life as being wasted but then I have produced my children and I would do that again in a heart beat. I would just chose their sire more wisely. Too late now for that though.

    • NOt sad here, either. Pissed off maybe that I wasted 13 years of my life with him, but I got everything I wanted in the divorce HE paid for, and I don’t have to deal with his crazy ass— she thinks she’s got a daddy for her kids and a gem of a man…yeah, OK Whore, you keep telling yourself whatever you need to…you’ll be me before you know it…

  • Unfortunately my theory is less flattering to us chumps. I think cheaters think that since they did all this behind our back, used us, lied to us, and generally just used our marriages as a doormat for so long, that they can just continue to serve us up with stupid shit like this and that we’ll just continue to take it. Bluntly: they’re used to treating us like shit, and since many of us weren’t able to figure the affair out right off the bat (because we trusted them), they mistakenly think we’ll just continue to take their shit even after we’ve found out.

    My wife made this mistake. I overheard her telling one of her friends that we would still all (her AP and his wife) hang out at this local beach together after I found out, and that she just expected me to give him dirty looks but would be fine with the whole thing otherwise. My original reaction wasn’t so much anger (it was eventually), as much as shock and confusion as to how she could even think that I would hang out with him (or be within 100 miles of him) and would even let that situation occur. I let her have it after that, and she was genuinely surprised at how angry I was. There’s a level of thinking that she has that I guess I can’t understand. I don’t get it.

    • This echos my experience as well – at least it explains my cheater’s behaviors – when I would discuss divorce, she would suddenly become a good wife for a few days, maybe a week, then quickly revert to lacking remorse, and generally seeing how much control and leverage she still had over me.

      And she too had that level of thinking that I just can’t understand – for example, we would have hours of intense, raw, gut-wrenching, even honest, therapy together and the next day it was like nothing happened, and she’d go back to being obsessed with her AP even though the affair didn’t materialize into a relationship.

      To her, I truly was a doormat.

    • I agree (though don’t think that is less flattering to chumps)–cheaters get away with massive amounts of deception and then de-value us for being so stupid as not to catch on to them (which warrants more deception, since we’re subhuman to them). But that says loads about the cheater, not about the chump.

  • Yup, friends because “we always found each other interesting.” And he was going to give me financial advice through the years, too. Lololol

  • My serial cheater father told me once how much I would like the woman he ended up marrying after he and my mom had divorced. It went something like, “You’d like her, she’s a real firecracker!” Whatevs. Hope his penis explodes.

  • Asshat told me ‘she reminds me of you’, ‘you are alot alike’.

    No, not really. I wouldn’t fuck someone else’s husband. he actually got me to try to help her career wise since fucking him didn’t seem to be working. I met her and reviewed her resume. Problem was she was universallyhated by the other people in the office.

    Impression – serious lack of skills and overally exalted opinion of herself. That was before I knew she was doing my ex.

    • OMG, mine used the same exact words. I laughed and said, “yeah, except I’m not a whore!”
      You can imagine how that went that I called his whore, well…a whore.
      I did not make up the definition to that word.

  • My x’s crazy ow would do such good person” things as giving him spiritual books like The Four Agreements (D Ruiz) and trying to get him to meditate and telling ME that she “loves” me! Yep, the crazy bitch had the balls to stand in MY living room and tell me that she loved him so therefore she loves me too!
    That was one of the moments that made it clear that if he could want her, then he and I were no longer a match.

    They’re not right in the head. At all.

    • You hit on a pet peeve here: my cheater and her illicit affair was incredibly spiritual, passionate, intimate, holy, authentic and courageously vulnerable.

      So often therapists, friends and chump nation members will extol the virtues of yoga, meditation, Ted talks (Brene Brown – the power of vulnerability, etc) for help in ending relationships or in repairing relationships, but my cheater employed all these items heavily in the rationalization and justification of her affair as being the vulnerable, authentic spiritual path.

      Narcissists can take healthy tools and ideas and use them in narcissistic selfish ways to justify their destructive behaviors, to which they plead oblivion.

      • Oh Buddy, we lived parallel (maybe the wrong word ~~ whatever, I never know what the adjectives are for this experience) lives. I can’t even think of yoga, mantras, The 4 Agreements, TEDTalks, meditation, sweat lodges, vision quests without breaking out in hives.

        It is all about image. Look at spiritual me. I can spout the rhetoric. Special, shiny, important me. Look at Virago. She how dull and boring (he failed to use the correct word ~~ BORED!) she is? I think I’ll just have to discard her. She served her purpose. What’s her name again?

        Everything . . . every thought, feeling, interest gets taken over the top. Too much. Too much.

  • The day after my divorce my X and I met over coffee to talk about the things the judge ordered us to take care of and our daughter.

    At the end of the conversation she told me she wanted to introduce me to her Fuck Buddy! I was sitting in the chair at the coffee shop with a small table in front of me. Both my hands on top of the table with my palms facing down. When she said this she had stood up and was standing to the right of me. I looked up slowly at her and gave her the big WTF look and said, ” I don’t want to meet him, not now and not ever. In fact I don’t even want to deal with you, I do because of our daughter. He is a looser for what he has done to his former family and his daughter (who he never sees and constantly tries to screw on child support that they are now garnishing his wages) and to my former family he is not someone I ever want to meet.”

    My X had this strange look as if in shock! I swear Narsaccists are so delusional about their own actions it amazes me. They hold others accountable for their own actions (or gas lighted actions from their delusion) but their actions always have excuses and are never held accountable.

    So in short, friends my ass!

  • BTW, this is awesome, CL. Pretty much sums up what the cheater sees as the most important common denominator:

    “You both like ME! You have so much in common! Namely, ME!”

  • “If we all are ‘friends’ then nothing really bad happened, right?!” WRONG!

    Definitely consider this part of cheater thinking. My xW was the queen of thinking this way. Sadly, I was too much of a chump earlier in our marriage to put my foot down about some inappropriate people still hanging around. I think I was too afraid of being labelled “controlling” for demanding she end her relationship with an emotional affair partner(s).

    • Ding!
      I mean if we’re seen in public smiling and having fun with the kids it will look like everything was for the best and his lie about how we grew apart was the truth.

      • So true…. I got the guilt trip from ex and his new wife that I should be civil and friendly to them for the kids’ sakes… Sugarcoating the truth certainly would make Asshat look better. Sick, sick, sick.

    • Since it turns out that mine had been cheating so long, he had long since come up with comfy rationalizations that helped him feel cozy in his chronic betrayal. Typical cheater he even decided that was also cheating for a while there, so he didnt expect D day to be that big of a deal, well it was a HUGE FUCKING DEAL and he was likely shocked that I was AS UPSET AS I WAS to learn stuff that was so second nature to him (as well as learning that I hadnt cheated).

        • Oh I got this one as well. “You weren’t worshipping me enough and so I thought you must have been having an affair anyway”.

          Fucking gross.

          • Amazing how narcs project their behavior to us. During my ex’s smear campaign of me he was telling people that he thought I was cheating on him. Lies and BS is second nature to them.

  • Asshat behaves like a middle school fangirl. He comes home, yammering about cool patients and staff, so it doesn’t set off alarm bells generally. The crap he told me about Florence was a bit more intimate. He would lower his voice, conspiratorially, and tell me he thought maybe he ex was after her bc he beat her. He worried that she had an eating disorder. When I would occasionally point out how unprofessional it was to be having that sort of conversation with a ‘subordinate’ he just met, he would tell me how hard her life was and that, “She’s so private and classy.” That’s when he started pushing for us to meet so we could be friends. “You would really like her! You’ve got so much in common!” Only trouble was they were already embroiled in the affair. Once D-Day came around, he decided she was not worth talking about, to me anyway, and I got no information. “She’s discreet. i KNOW she didn’t tell anyone. Don’t worry, she won’t do ANYTHING to you.” Yes, I am going to trust the word of two fucking liars. In either sense.

    • Why is it every female cheater claims she is being abused?
      Not saying it doesn’t happen but I swear nearly every single one of them acts like it is a good reason to cheat and that no one will question it.

      • Because its kibbles, y’see. They use it as a grounds to ‘get closer’ to someone else, be pretend-vulnerable and generally make people feel sorry for them. It all goes from there.

      • There’s apparently enough KISA men (knight in shining armour) who love being part of a good story like that.

        • Yes, it’s astonishing that there are so many “abused and neglected” women who stoop to trolling for a married rescuer as a way out of their situation AND without so much as batting an eyelash about destroying someone else’s family in the process. My ex Mr. Cheaterpants was verbally and emotionally abusive to me but it never crossed my mind to have an affair!! Must be a narc thing. Kibbles are just too yummy and delicious to do without.

        • This is exactly how my narc ex found his ap. She adored everything in him that her husband wasn’t and my husband loved that she adored him. He had already devalued me because I had lived with him long enough to get to know who he really was. It was a perfect storm. He was able to justify the affair (to which he never admitted) and separation as it was all my fault for not accepting him for who he is. Correct! I decided to no longer accept the lying and cheating so I left. 2 years later the hurt and humiliation still eat at my self esteem but I know that I did the right thing – if not a Couple years late.

        • Oh yeah right like they don’t do it to us. Or the famous she was all alone all by herself so do that to me leave me all alone by myself. At least the whore has tons of friends and family around and both her daughters lived with her! Nope troll the bars looking for a nice stable man to destroy his marriage and leave his wife completely alone. Bitch hope she dies a horrible death.

  • “They hold others accountable for their own actions (or gas lighted actions from their delusion) but their actions always have excuses and are never held accountable.” Exactly!!

  • Oh yeah, so much in common: she has the SAME FIRST NAME AS ME.

    That pisses me off almost more than the whole rest of the tacky affair.

    Also, he was delighted to tell me, she has the same weird little toenail as me, so yknow, we should be besties fo-evah

    Sometimes I think he’s retarded…

    • LOL Isn’t it just the best moment ever, when your husband is telling you little details about his AP? (and he thinks you have no clue that they’ve been having sex, cause, you know, you’re dumb) Like when he tells me how her skin has all these CUUUTE little freckles all over it?? So, when I give him a nasty look, as if to say-you’d better shut up right now, Asshole. Then he adds more details, ‘you know, the kind of skin that’s so white, but has freckles everywhere, I think that’s so attractive!!
      He must be seriously demented, because I have freckles (Irish), and why on earth would I want to discuss the skin of someone who has been taking up all his time, so he won’t spend it with me, or his own sons? If I had any doubt at all, that he was f-ing her, he removed it when he talked about how her skin looked!

      I was also taken out, to an Indian restaurant with her, and him, because he asked us both! I was in my gobsmacked phase, and just went along. It was the worst WORST meal I ever spent, sitting there, she was pissed, I was pissed, and Mr Clueless was trying sooooo hard to make us like each other, like good little Sister-Wives.
      Looking back from now, It’s pretty damn hilarious!!

  • Wow, so spot on again! My cheater said to me, “You know, Muse, she actually is your best friend!” (she was a stranger, I didn’t know her, she was a customer of his) “how’s that?” I asked. “Because she told me I should tell you about us.” So he wasn’t going to tell me about their affair and she was my “best friend” because she wanted him to tell me and then WHAT exactly? yes my Best Friend would fuck my 16 years live-in boyfriend secretly behind my back. But then tell me about it, wow, what a friend!!!

    He also said, verbatim, “I wish I could split myself in two so one of me could be with HER, and one with YOU!” This was repeated two or three times in different conversations to the point where I almost offered him a machete to go ahead and split himself in half.

    Since I was not interested in accepting the awesomeness of 50% of him together with the promise that “if it doesn’t work out with her, I can totally see us getting back together, Muse!” and “Muse, if you play your cards right you might just get a second chance,” I kicked him to the curb the very night of D-Day and as far as I know he still lives with her and she gets to have 100% of his abusive perverted underemployed cheating lying awesomeness, and I am closer to Meh every day!

  • I just got a variation of this crap from my STBXH. He was dropping off our child after a visit and told me that “someday” he hoped OW would be able to meet me and things would be such that she could come along during drop-offs…mumbled something like “you might like her.” He also acknowledged that “I know you’re still very angry about what I did.” Ya think? I am but on the other hand, I am moving on with my cheater-free life and it’s great.

    • “Angry? No. Angry is what I do when I’ve put the wrong sort of paint on the walls. Angry is what I am when the car refuses to start and I’m late for work. What I am for you is murderous. You have precisely thirty seconds to get the fuck off my property or this knife will run you through! GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME.”

      (Okay, maybe I might be in a homocidal mood with this topic, but holy crap ChumpedALot – hes a moron)

      • Angry indeed!!!! For once, mine has been smart enough to NOT suggest we meet— he alone enrages me enough, much less his OWife.

  • I don’t know how it works for others, but for me the children forced me to be low contact instead of no contact. It was awful to have to share my children with the never ending line of f’buddies that were paraded through their lives after the divorce. The one thing I never factored in was my children’s sense of humor — they actually made tolerating the situation better because they clearly saw the problems and flaws with the new women — they even knew when they were being buttered up for the benefit of dear old dad. They often expressed unsolicited opinions about just how dumb their dad could be about women, and they even brought home some very entertaining skits which re-enacted golden moments they observed/shared at their dad’s place when he had them for visitation.

    There never was contact (that I know about) with OW when we were married, and the affairs rarely lasted very long. He just couldn’t maintain a sugar daddy status very long — he was interested in new and fleeting sex without responsibility. After I filed for divorce and we told my children (they were not surprised, or upset) he started dating openly. He eventually remarried a totally inappropriate woman who had great caretaking skills — and I am sure is operating without a clue — and age and illness have slowed down his philandering. My children have more or less accepted her role in their dad’s life — and they don’t want to believe that she is expecting a financial payoff for fulfilling all her caretaking duties, which will come right off the top of their inheritance. Maybe it is worth it to them to not see a constantly changing Parade O Pussy? Maybe they are happy not to be called on to drive him around and take him to doctor’s appointments and turn on the computer ON button when he says it is broken? Who knows, but as far as me liking or getting along with any of the AP’s, past or present, NOPE. I don’t see that in my job description I am civil, if I have to see one in front of my children — but I already have friends, and I certainly don’t need a cheater to pick out any new friends for me.

    • Word!!!!

      That is how my sons are with their dad (my first ex-)…after a while, it just became a joke to them when I would ask, “How do you like Daddy’s new woman?” They would just roll their eyes and laugh and say, “Mom, it’s Dad we’re talking about!!! She won’t be around long!!!”

      Ex#1 actually married two different women in ONE year- that was a trip, thank God my boys are so much older, if they were younger with that kind of chaos, I’d go crazy with frustration for my boys. Their step-mom when they were younger lasted 6 years, so they were 15 & 9 when the door started revolving…he has settled down with Wife #5 for now, LOL we’ll see how long it lasts.

  • I can add another perspective… They think so little of the chumps and view them essentially as “Inferior” (cause obviously if you were as fabulous as the fuck buddy then cheaters wouldn’t cheat!!! )… So being friends with the fuck buddy means the chump gets to see fabulousness in all its glory and will get a lesson each day on how they are not “good enough” and therefore must not feel bad about being cheated on…

    I got this fantabulous explanation – not in exact words… But in so many words that I would draw this conclusion and when I question it ? His reaction is I put words in his mouth!! – he just said lets be friends. When I asked him what exactly was fabulous about him to begin with… N then he can expound on her fabulousness…

    He said what is there NOT to love about either of them…. My reaction “So being financially irresponsible – buying a house 5 times your annual salary, buying electronics indiscriminately without checking what you have already, owning latest gadgets irrespective of price or need; partying till you puke your guts out every weekend; owing a car you cannot afford; being condescending and shitty to your wife unless you require a check from her and generally asking her to leave you alone cause you are busy watching TV…. All that fabulousness ?!?!?!? Now tell me about her greatness…. Pregnant at 19, didn’t finish college, claims to be gentle soul who is understanding and does not JUDGE… Parties every weekend Friday through Sunday, barely makes money to keep a roof over her head and depends on mommy n step dad to bail her out every time… Loves kids apparently (hence near constant partying); was abused by the world because she was not pretty enough through high school and is a BBW… But she gave birth so has attained Saint hood… I mean there is NOTHING not to love here right?!?!?”

    His response: we far too evolved for YOU to understand…

    That’s when the penny dropped in my head… Sure she is like me… Uh NOT! And I definitely don’t want her to teach me fabulousness … Thank you VERY much POS!

    • Yep. She’s nice I’m not. She’s happy all the time. Of course she got what she wanted. She’s generous. Buys people including him. She’s has a nice house, mines falling down cause he was too cheap to let me fix anything. She gets her hair and nails done every month! I wasn’t allowed no money for that and who was I trying to impress! God the bullshit we have to listen to. It is mind boggling! Her and her family are perfect and flawless and mine and his family so screwed up and of course everything is my fault! He wants to be my friend why to remind me how bad and worthless I am. Fucker.

      • Tell me about it! My family are referred to as RELATIVES … Hers is THE FAMILY said like they belong to the godfather clan..

        The shittiest thing is he never took me on a honeymoon n didn’t let me plan one either… Said lets be fiscally responsible n plan it properly after saving up the money… I did buy into it n was so proud of him… Then after a while bunch of brochures for different resorts came home… I sincerely thought he was going to take me to one of the places… Turns out he had taken whore-mom-ger on a cruise before our marriage so he had no funds… But got brochures so I’d think he was going to take me somewhere… When I questioned him he said – oh k I took her but I LOOKED INTO taking you somewhere you ungrateful bitch!!!! If you were nicer I might have!!

        Oh my head spins…

        I also asked him how come he made so much effort for her… Taking her places, interesting n fun activities over each weekend etc but can’t manage to come out to dinner with me one evening cuz I was bored out of my mind?!?!? He says – oh she would have gone partying n gotten drunk if I had NOT planned all those weekends… So a normal human being (wife) who earns well, is well put together, has genuine interests etc n NOT the least LOVES you invites you out for an evening n you want to watch TV?!?!? Yet – for an alcoholic loser you PLAN weekends so she won’t get shitfaced?!?!?

        I’m glad I’m a normal person… I can’t understand this crap!!!!

  • My STBX told a friend that “I predict Susan and Schmoopie will be best friends in 3 years!” So NOT happening! And the other time when we were having a conversation and STBX said “I just want everyone to like me!” To which I responded that the three people who probably loved him more than anyone in the world, now HATE him! He didn’t know how to respond to that and still doesn’t…. blows my mind every time I think about it!

    • I believe Asshat expected us to all get along like his own dysfunctional family. Both parents married three times and Mother Asshat has NO concept of boundaries, pretending her ex’s families are still her own and in love with her. Shudder. We live in a tiny town and he told me I could be happy, he wouldn’t screw me over (um, didn’t you already?) and our son and I would be taken care of. And, I could totally be friends with the new (psycho) biatch. Apparently, he forgot that I have a brain and a backbone. Fuck if that woman is EVER getting near Little Elf again. She doesn’t like kids (he is special needs) and she is nuts. Sounds like awesome stepmom material. I think he was just planning to make an easy transition after I was best buds with the whore. Not!!!

  • After my cheater manipulated me into quitting my job and moving closer to his job, also the OW’s neighborhood, he tried to have us become BFFs! “Because I didn’t know anyone in that town and she’s really nice.” He works with her, BTW. After about two months of her being shoved down my throat, I got suspicious of her. I told him she was no longer invited to my house and he was not to speak to her at work anymore because I suspected she was after him. A year and a half later I found out they were fucking the whole time and she was the reason we moved there. We’re now divorced and they’re “in a relationship”. I hope thy get married soon so both of the masks can come off and they can see just what they both got! Empty, soulless fucktards that deserve one another!

  • I asked.. he lied and said it was some random girl. Later when the lies were not making sense I asked for more information…he lied again. Later when the lies were just outlandish as could be, I threatened…he cried she has a family. Listen fucker you have a family (now is “HAD” a family). After I threatened with gritted teeth and I realized who, he softly said…yes. What a piece of shit. I knew her and her husband. I liked her (key word: “liked”) not anymore.

    Later he was curled up in the fetal position on the floor hyperventilating, he said…you know her, she is a nice person, you can still be friends.


    • Isn’t it amazing how people who barely shed a tear in 36 years curl up in fetal positions and sob and hyperventilate? I truly thought my ex had a brain tumor, his behavior was so out of the norm for him!

      • Omg, mine was rolling back and forth on the bed wailing at the top of his lungs “Its so hard, why can’t I have just one minute of happiness!”

        Dang, sorry, I thought you were a grownup…

      • It’s because all their carefully laid plans (Ha! I made a pun!) are NOT working out! They are the Master of the Universe, and you are the Inferior One, how can you go and ruin everything??
        Much frustration and crying follows….until they go Cold Shark on you.

        • OMG! My ex actually refers to himself as Master of the Universe. First time I discovered his affair, I held him while he cried. When I told him I didn’t want to see him again if we divorced, he said “Well, I might as well just kill myself then.” I restrained myself from saying go ahead and instead said “No, we can just both go in different directions and live our own lives.” He is still alive and well. It’s shocking that the suicide threats appear to be pure manipulation.

          • That’s what my therapist said, huge manipulation! My X would tell me he was going to off himself, but in graphic detail. It was meant to horrify me, and it did. My therapist told me that he (X) owned that, and my job was to protect my sanity and health. She really saved me. My first reaction was to go to him to try and save him, but because I listened to her, I told him something like- I’m sorry you feel desperate, I hope you think about what this would do to our sons, and go find the help you need!
            Later on, he texted me- you know I’m too much of a P***y to ever kill myself. So yeah, it was a sort of fake, although I do think he was very upset because I left him!

      • The only time I saw my ex cry was when his dad died and then when he was begging me to give him another chance when I told him I wanted a divorce. As soon as I told him he was all out of chances he flipped from lava-snot bawling to venom-spitting hate. My kids tell me he now cries easily and frequently… SO STRANGE

  • “Cheaters think they deserve only special people because they’re so special themselves.”

    This. This. This. In a romance manifesto she would copy and paste out to new boyfriends on chat, my wife actually articulated this. She was a “romantic”. “Romantics” need and deserve to be continuously craved and lovebombed. Only “romantics” can understand, appreciate, or satisfy other “romantics”.

    [The reality usually ended up being more an expression of “these are the lies you need to echo back to me to get into my pants.” How many of those “romantics” stuck around? Oh, that’s right, none. Well, they were obviously faking it, but I’m sure the next one will be real for sure.]

    I never got introduced to any of these guys, thank goodness. I wasn’t a “romantic”, you see.

    [Apparently “romantics” cheat easily on their non-romantic spouses. I mean, they have to. After all, only “romantics” can truly make other “romantics” happy. Yep, you’re right dear. I guess I’m not a “romantic”.]

  • I would never be friends with a person who did what my X and his skank did to me and my sons.

    My radar for good partners may be broken, but my ability to find trustworthy friends are intact, thank GOD.

  • My ex was spectacularly clueless. For the first few months of NC, all I had to do to suppress the urge was to remember this conversation, which took place a couple weeks before she moved in with Shmoopie:

    Ex: I think it would be best if all three of us were very close friends.
    Me: What do you mean by “close”?
    Ex: Ideally, we should be so close that he’ll come along with us to [vacation resort].
    Me: (stunned silence, then) …You realize that we planned that vacation for our wedding anniversary?
    Ex: (utterly sincere) Why should that matter?

  • satan said this very thing to me, ‘You guys would be good friends, if you had met under different circumstances. You are so much alike!’ I said, ‘No satan, I doubt that…sigh…I can’t imagine that. I don’t sleep with other women’s spouses.’ satan just started at me like ‘trying to compute that’. Ugh…idiot.

    …fast forward to a month before the divorce will be final…satan weeping and wringing his hands…wants to ‘come home’ if I can ‘let this go’…wha???? When I suggested he go live with his kroger ho since she is so ‘sweet’ and, apparently ‘just like me’…tears stopped, replaced by THE RAGE and he growled, ‘She had her moments! She’s a whore JUST LIKE ALL THE REST OF EM!’


    …yeah Chumps…I WALKED away from that disordered mess…REAL FAST!

  • My ex’s OW tried to friend me on Facebook. This was well after D-Day, while my then husband was continuing to find ways to sneak off to meet her while simultaneously telling me he wanted to work on the marriage and that my suspicions were false. And she was continuing to call him constantly to remind him that I was the problem and that she loved him.

    So yeah, obviously we should be BFFs.

    • My ex used to go Christmas shopping with OW to buy me holiday gifts. He got angry and acted like an ass if I asked him to go with our family, though. Such a jerk. I left all the stuff I was pretty sure OW picked out for me when I moved out. Especially the damn Christmas pillows. He probably has them on his couch now.

      • On one of the howorker and Hub’s “hanging out” times, they took our kids to the farmer’s market. He brought me home flowers. She helped him pick out the flowers. It was our 9th anniversary and I didn’t put two and two together at that point even. I couldn’t make the “date” because I was studying to get my bachelors degree at night and we had our real anniversary date lined up for the weekend anyway. That’s how you can you can tell I’m a good person and that they’re shitheads; even when evidence is hitting me smack dab in the face, I don’t realize it. I would never do it. So it never occurs to me. Assholes.

  • I too was told this before DDay. I didn’t really agree that we would like each other. She was pleasant at best but already in the process of taking a man from his family. Just ew!!!

  • I got to hear “you’re still my best friend” on D-Day. I literally scoffed and said “well you aren’t MINE!” He looked confused so I explained that I don’t lie to my best friends and cheat on them and hire a lawyer before telling them I was unhappy and wanted out of the marriage. That’s a really really shitty thing to do to anybody let alone your best friend. Shit. No wonder he had no friends ever.

    I related so much to this. WH liked to tell me what a good person OW was. I said ‘good people don’t cheat on their husbands with married men.” He said “doing a bad things doesn’t make you a bad person.” Fair enough, people can make mistakes, but it wasn’t a one time thing, it was an ongoing affair where they not only destroyed the lives of their spouses, children, but also broke the hearts of family and friends who cared about us. A person can make a mistake, but learn from it and be remorseful and grow and move on, but a bad person does what they want and leaves a wake of destruction in their way without even a second glance.

    • Kim, my ex told me “You must hate me, but I don’t hate you,” as if he was a more gracious person. I wanted to scream “Did I cheat on you, lie to you, plot to divorce you behind your back, and generally discard you like so much trash??” Sheesh. Heck, I didn’t hate him, I loved him! Cheaters are so emotionally devoid of compassion or empathy for anyone other than themselves.

      • “But, I’d be happy for you if you were in love!!!” Said by my husband right after I discovered his 1.5yr long office ow affair. I was weak, pale & so lost for days after discovering their affair b’c my (now x) had kept up his charade of being so in love with me right up til Dday.
        In shock, I said “You still say you’re in love with me almost daily. You tell me how much you “love our little family”.”
        Then he said “But you don’t look happy.. look in the mirror, UC.. are you happy right now?” Then a day later would be telling me how he’s “divided” because he’s loves both me and ow but that ow will never be to him what I am/was, but that she’s from his home country and really understands him… Then it would change into him being “confused” because he has to go see what ow and he can have.. but that he doesn’t consider her his girlfriend and that upsets her… and on and on and on…

        The mindfuckery that took place in those final weeks after Dday1 is almost too much to revisit. I think I block it out most of the time. Maybe I should think about those moments more often, actually. (I ended up taking him back 2yrs later(!), did 8yrs of reconciliation, then he cheated again 1.75yrs ago and I let him go for good.. lost 18yrs of life with a “confused” “divided” and self-centered man. Ugh. On with the healing!

      • “I don’t hate you” – what the fuck – does he want a goddamn bitch cookie for this?
        His actions show otherwise though!

  • My first cheater husband wanted me to befriend his affair partner even as he pushed for divorce because she could “learn so much from you”. 20 years later I understand that to mean “teach her to give me the kibbles that I got from you that she’s no good at”

    • My ex kept trying to get me to run around with his coworker and her husband like we were best buds. I told him his behavior around her was so painful to me that I refused to socialize with them any more. After he left I asked my counselor if she thought putting my foot down like that drove my husband to her, and she answered “I think you were doing a good job of trying to protect yourself.” Made me feel a lot better.

      • He was slicing and dicing your boundaries, that’s what they like to do. Your boundaries were reasonable, and yes, you were protecting yourself. Good for you. If we have to have zero boundaries to stay married, then marriage really doesn’t mean much anymore! You didn’t drive him to her, he did that on his own.

        • Exactly! You didn’t drive him to her. He was seeing how long you go along for their twisted ride. Good for you for being your own advocate.

  • Yeah, My ex said I would like her. Tried to get me to be friends with the two before (when I was clueless).
    He also tried to be friends with me post divorce until I told him we were not friends after the way he treated me. This after he told me all about OWife’s bed rest and leaking amniotic fluid..

    The worst part was when my 12 yr old came back after five week summer vacation to say that her father had a type, and listed off how similar OWife was to me, 12 yr also said I would like her.
    2.5 yrs and two suicide attempts later, now 15 yr old is a mess. She loves her father, she likes the OW in some respects, but also understands that OWife had the affair with her father while married as well. Shite sndwiches all around.
    She is no contact with her father.

  • All I ever heard was “she’s NICE”. WHATEVER asshole, so was I once upon a time, you killed my nice. It was replaced with playing detective, feeling like I was never good enough, begging for intimacy and attention (to me and not just his dick), being wrong about everything….and on and on…

    Suggesting ANY anything between me and OWhore….never! Even he isn’t THAT stupid.

    • Ugh.. My x threw the “You’re so full of hate, UC!” at me one day after I’d found some trinkets she’d made for him – IN MY HOUSE! So, I’d trashed them. Told him that’s where anything from her belonged, in the bin with the other dogshit. And he told me I was full of hate, lol.. Uh, yeah, I do have hate for people who destroy parts of my life that I’d loved, cherished and trusted. You’re awesome, NCStevie! I always appreciate your humor and spice.. thx for being here 😉 Your x is an idiot who didn’t realize what he had!

      • Thank you UC, right back atcha. I love it here!! We all “get it” and I love that we all understand and can relate to one another.

        “In the bin with the other dogshit.” That’s friggen outstanding!!!

        They do everything they can to break you down and then tell you “your unhappy”. No shit! I wonder why?? Just no reason whatsoever. Fuckers.

  • Since the MOW is all over the Internet my STBX had the nerve to ask me if I thought she was pretty! Too funny! My answer…hell no buddy! She’s ugly inside and out.

    • She’s all over the internet? What, on porn sites with videos? Ew.
      (Well aware shes probably not, but it was snarky I guess 😛 )

  • This is why NC is a ***must***.

    Who in their right mind would want to entertain this kind of garbage?

    If some of these cheater quotes were in a sitcom, they’d be queuing the laugh track!

    Chump: “I can’t believe that you cheated!”

    Cheater: “Yeah, but it’s ok… you could all be friends!”

    Chump: [ ‘Seriously?’ face ]

    Cheater: “Was it something that I said?”

    Laugh track

    • Chump (me): I can’t believe you cheated. I respected you so much!
      Cheater (sneering): Well, your respect was obviously misplaced!

        • Thank you Jeep! When the mask came off, the real ugliness emerged. He was right, my respect for him all those years of the Fake Nice Guy, the moral authority in our family, was true misplaced.

          • Before my cheater walked out, I expressed shock at him leaving me for her and at some of his bizarre “reasons”/justifications. He said, “I guess you didn’t really know me.” I was so hurt by that comment, but now with a couple years’ distance, I see that he was right; I didn’t know the real him at all…

      • Yep. That’s one thing he said that is extremely accurate.
        Mine said that both the OW and I were better off alone than with him. I didn’t say anything, but inside, it’s like… Yep. That’s definitely true.

    • Everything that’s happened and his reaction and responses to the fucked up shit he has done are so comical that I’ve actually thought about doing some stand up on an open mic night.

      • Oh shit NCStevie!!! What a great idea!!!! I could just imagine the laughter over any conversation with satan I would recount! LMAO!

        Me: ‘What is the matter with you? Are you sick? Dizzy?’
        satan: MEOW
        Me: ‘I’m going to the store do you need anything while I’m out?
        satan: MEOW MEOW MEOW


          • Anita it WAS way weird! The whole situation was just unbelievable. I still can’t wrap my head around any of it other than to Thank God I am out of it and NEVER have to see, hear or hear about him ever again in my life. My aching ribs serve as a reminder that I will NEVER go into any type of relationship with satan again. If my Mom were still on this earth she would hand him his balls! …I think she briefly resided in my pit bull lawyer’s mind when she handed him his balls :D. I think I felt her kiss my cheek when the judge granted my divorce! SCORE!

            • Yay, Jeep, so glad you got away from that freak. Too bad you couldn’t tape that shit and put it on the internet. Oh well, maybe the lucky affair partner will get an encore live performance herself.

              • Anita, I believe that is where the meowing came from :p the kroger ho! satan had a weird way of ‘picking up’ others’ habits…sooo…just a thought I had.

                Regardless of where or why he was doing it thank goodness he did! Over the 36 years we were together the dynamic was the same – he would disappear (cheat, I think now) and return and talk me into taking him back. I never saw this bizarre behavior before…he would rage and break things in the past, but never meow or beat me…both were new behaviors for him. Those things started after I saw his ‘super secret cell phone’ (his words). Ugh…juvenile.

                I am so Thankful to be free of him!

              • Wow, Jeep, 36 years. That just goes to prove you never can know another person. I was only with the ex about 10 years and his affiliation with the whore brought out nasty behaviors I had never seen either. Guess that’s what True Love does for you. Sign me up.

                If I weren’t so old, I would go back to school and get a Master’s degree in psychology, or something similar. My thesis would involve a theory of the fucked upness it takes to be the Other Woman, lol. Those Bitches aren’t right. They go into these so called relationships with known liars and cheaters. The things we only suspect they did with these depraved fuckers they know are fact.

              • satan has had many, many hos over the years. People started crawling out of the woodwork once the divorce hit the papers…many, many stories I really didn’t need to hear other than for the fact that they strengthened my resolve to leave him forever and never look back.

                Friends I hadn’t seen for years called or stopped by to tell me they couldn’t handle his advances anymore and so stopped comin around…said he would follow them into the bathroom and try to move on them! Wha!!!!??? I never bothered to ask why they waited so long to tell me…I probably would have believed him regardless… Men he worked with called or stopped by to tell me how he bragged about all his conquests…again…I never bothered to ask why wait…

                …my niece…told me of his advances on her (my mind was spinning!) she said, ‘I love you Aunt Jeep! I love Uncle satan but only cause he was your husband. I always thought he was a creeper…but you loved him so I tried to…I think he only approached me because I am a lesbian and I would be a challenge.’ …damn Anita, I think she summed him all up in that statement…he is a toxic narc and soul sucking evil, cowardly non human. …I can’t imagine living a life with that as the only goal…who does that? oh…satan does.

                I hope I never, ever meet anyone like him ever again…

                I turned 58 this year…I don’t think we are old 😀 We can do anything we want if we put our mind to it and our hearts are engaged! Look at how far we have come in these horrid situations!! WE ARE MIGHTY!!!

                They are all cowards…

  • The satanic exhole I was unfortunate enough to marry actually had one of his whores befriend me. It was an elaborate plan and perfectly executed. i thought I had made a great new friend when actually it was just a way for them to spend more time together.
    I won’t bore you with the details but some highlights – went out for dinner just the three of us several times because she had told me how lonely she was and I hate to think of people being alone so invited her along, my invitation, her request, his kibbles.
    She got me to take her shopping for clothes for “advice”. I basically dressed her for success to please my husband.
    Got me to do her makeup and teach her how to do it because she liked the way I did mine.
    She was always thinking of stuff we could do together and take my kids along. She had never had kids and found mine “such fun.”
    Introduced her to my friends. They both then began a smear campaign about me without anyone knowing they were screwing. Stuff they were saying about me must be right eh? What with it coming from two separate sources and all.
    There is much more. I basically found all this out five years AFTER the affair was long dead and he’d had many more. I had zero clue at the time, I just wondered why a lot of fun friends had stopped getting in touch with me. They had gradually backed off after they had “heard” I was married for “convenience” in “name only” because I was a gold digger. I had mental health and addiction problems and exhole was a saint for not leaving me. WTF???
    It was the biggest mind fuck when I actually found out many years later. At that point I had been separated from cheater exhole for a couple of years as I found out about other affairs, not this one. It was very traumatizing to find out quite what a crazy bitch this woman had been and it rocked my trust at a whole new level just as I was beginning to heal. I was still Facebook friends with her and I’d had NO DAMN CLUE she was as deranged as him. It really creeps me out when I think of the things she did, this slore wanted my husband, life and kids. Theres more to the story but this is too long already. There are some absolute crazies in this world.

    • Ninja chump – this exact same shit happened with me. Almost exactly the same. Holy shit. In my case though I wasn’t married to him, thank fuck.

      Basically, they concocted a plan where she befriended me. The same sort of stuff in your situation happened in my case too.
      I remember getting suspicious and probing a bit about the ‘friendship’ between her and my then-current boyfriend – without actually coming out and saying “what the fuck is with you guys, you are too close”.
      Her response? “You and him are great together! He’s such a kind person”. I would have thought that she, being his BEST FRIEND’S LITTLE SISTER, would be excluded from the list of people I had to worry about. Apparently not.

      The story certainly changed when it came out that he was fucking her all along. The smear campaign was out in full force, too.

      She very wisely kept her distance after that came out – because she knew from experience that I would have no qualms about destroying her. However, she used my ‘violent tendencies’ (There was a situation probably about a year prior to that, where someone had pissed me off via severe bullying, to the point where I lost all reason and nearly killed them) to paint me to be a crazy person. I wasn’t aware that protecting yourself was considered ‘crazy’ but ok. My response to that nonsense was simple, akin to: “If she comes near me, I will drag the whore by her hair out the door, among other things. She knows what I’m capable of.” She, very wisely, kept her distance.

        • YES. And that shit INFURIATED ME. I guess the family which bonks together sticks together, hmmm?

          Another ex (unrelated to this situation, another one I think cheated, but had no proof) pulled the “I love you like a sister” line to me when that relationship ended. I’m starting to think his “cousin” who visited whilst we were on holidays wasn’t his cousin after all, given the filthy looks I was getting from her!

      • Lanka and ohthisagain – I’m so sorry you experienced this too. The cheating wasn’t enough they want you to participate in your own humiliation? Truly evil. Ugh, what the hell with these people?

          • That being said, Lanka sounds like an awesome name too. 😀
            Its ok though – I got my revenge by them living shitty lives post-DDay. 🙂

            • I’m all about the name Lania to be honest. Lanka sounds like a sketchy fetish the exhole would be into. Happy EX-mas, and here’s to shitty lives for the cheaters.

    • Same here, except it was her and her hubby (never caught them, figured it out after DDay) we did dinners with them, they came to my birthday party. Assholes. He suckered me into being nice to her and doing her hair for her at a competition. Miserable assholes, all of them!

    • I’m so sorry Ninja Chump. I had a taste… just a taste of what you experienced and it was horrible. It still makes me ill when I think of it. I also found out after we had separated, and it threw me back to my post Dday “dazed and confused” phase. I hope you’re protecting yourself, and holding firm boundaries because this woman sounds like crazy of the Fatal Attraction kind… to call her “creepy” is too kind.
      And btw, your story isn’t too long; you need to tell it. You’ve been treading water in a toxic cesspool for years! You’re exhausted, traumatized, and desperately need to find solid ground, and fresh air. Surround yourself with people who support YOU. Chump Nation is a good start.

      • Itsajourney – Thank you so much. Such kind words and they really make a difference. CL and the people here opened my eyes, it’s changed my life. I will be coming here for quite a while! Until I found CL it was asthough I had all the pieces to a 5000 piece jigsaw puzzle but had no clue what the picture was. Chump nation showed me the picture and then it was just a case of putting all the pieces together.
        It was still painful but an enormous relief, finally the weirdness that I had been living made sense. Most importantly I found out how to deal with it and what steps to take next.
        Thank you again, have a wonderful cheater free Christmas!

  • We know that “friend” is just code for fuck buddy/potential fuck buddy. Ex gave the standard bullshit. Whore is a good person. You would like her. You have a lot in common. She is funny (apparently the most important quality in a person, and no sarcastic meanness is not the same as funny, BTW.) He forgets that I met this slut, and did not care for her, so why would I like her nasty ass after she committed adultery with him. I don’t care to fuck her, so I see her for exactly the blithering idiot that she is. Not friend ship material, just an easy available whore crotch.

  • Unfortunately my exH replaced me with someone who’d been a ‘friend’ for 20 years. Stupid chump that I am, I did try to talk to her about things (it was early days), she wasn’t keen on speaking to me to say the least, had already blocked me on Facebook (and got her kids to block me too).

    ExH was always on about us staying ‘friends’… “after all we had a lot of years together”. WTF?


    • Well Ninja that makes you pretty much like the rest of us here, most of us didn’t have any idea either in one way shape or form. The sad part is, as you point out, they really have no remorse for dragging you through the mud. I have a rule now, I do not associate with anyone she worked with no matter the circumstance. I have no desire to be part of any conversation ever where someone gets a lightbulb in their head that I’m not the great satan or the horrible wretch she told everyone I was. Let them think whatever. Those people don’t matter to me. I lost a lot of friends too because of false accusations. When they eventually figured out I was not the issue, I kept them at arms length anyhow. I know who stuck with me. Those are the people I choose to surround myself with.

        • Am I the only one where ex started saying I was abusive after DDay? So I got this kinda shit; she’s a saint, you’d really like her but she is afraid of you….because he told her I would hurt her no doubt. No one?
          Lots of people get divorced and still live together
          Did no one else recognize the AP was a damn pale imitation of me, a weaker version
          The whole let’s be friends shit came down to how hard could Saddam screw me in the divorce
          Of course after fucking with me in every way, refusing any reasonable settlement, I am vindictive and petty but let’s be friends

          Fuck assholes, just tell them To fuck off

          • One of my ex’s (the one who was screwing an underage whore from South East Asia) smeared my name to the rest of our mutual social group, claiming I was abusive to his poor little soul, after he dropped the bomb on me. Unfortunately for me, almost everyone believed him, so I bailed from pretty much that entire friendship circle, knowing that there was no going back.
            The joke was on him though, apparently the OW got arrested over in her country for something unrelated (but fraudulent) a few months later – I found this out via the grapevine of a few people I still kept in contact with. But thats what happens when you are a liar about everything (this girl lied about having a terminal illness, and the fraudulent thing was related to her getting donations off people).

      • Amen Scott…when he left and all the craziness began, I have kept my friends, my family, and very, very few friends were Swiss-friends I keep at a very far length away…Honestly, I don’t think they even talk to him anymore, and I don’t care. I’m not taking any chances.

        I know enough of his lies/narrative he’s told his OWhores about me to know that anyone that believe one-millioneth of the shit he says about me is not worth my friendship or time.

      • I hear you Scott. It’s hard enough at the time to go no contact with the cheater and deal with your relationship breaking up. Having to cut out huge parts of your social circle at the same time, well, let’s just say it’s not for the faint hearted.
        I had managed to create a nice life in a new country for him, my kids and myself.
        You really are left with nothing and have to rebuild a whole new life from the ground up.

        • Omg – wish there was an edit button! I need to proof read. The new life is NOT with him, my kids and myself. Just my kids and me.

  • The Fucktard also wanted to remain “friends.” Which in his muddled logic meant that I could be his new fuckbuddy while my younger, thinner and prettier replacement part lived in my former home with my former husband and my former pets, enjoying my former life. He didn’t want to “break up,” just to divorce so I wouldn’t have anything to say about his running around. Ideally, I suppose I should have “pick me” danced the rest of my life in the little condo he chose for me around the corner from said former house.

    Um, no.

    • Survivor, whilst his new fuckbuddy may be younger, thinner and prettier replacement as you state, I would place odds that she does not have your morals, integrity or character. My replacement is 40 years younger than me and she couldn’t walk in my shadow let alone on the same street. You see I have never been a prostitute and never will be.

      • Thanks, Maree. The grad student replacement part was said by the Fucktard to be younger, thinner and prettier. (My faults were that I wasn’t young enough, thin enough or pretty enough for him anymore.) I never met her (to my knowledge), and didn’t get a good look at her while she sat in the getaway car with the lights off as he broke into my (I thought) secure undisclosed apartment one night. I did notice she had long hair, like mine. He married her after the divorce, but she didn’t last long. My guess is that the Fucktard assumed incorrectly that she would put up with his bad behavior for years, as I had, and she only wanted the outward signs of the life I’d lived, not the reality. And no, I wasn’t listening when he decided I’d do after all. By then I was long gone, with a new job I loved and a new house I loved and plenty of new and reclaimed friends. I was thinner and looked better than I had in years once I could eat and sleep properly. In retrospect, the little homewrecker did me the ultimate favor by taking that nutcase off my hands.

        • Word!!! He got his “younger skinny little blonde” like he always wanted me to be, but my guess is that she won’t last long…unless she is seriously THAT desperate for a daddy for her kids and has such low self-esteem that she’ll put up with his crazy so she doesn’t have to go back to her mommy & daddy’s house to live under their roof again.

          • HAAA!! My ex couldn’t tolerate children. He promised me one, only one, but made excuses for years why this wasn’t the right time for him and that wasn’t the right time for him. If you had a Narc, Molly, he will run from kids. Many here saw very bad behavior from men expecting a child or with children. They just can’t be anything but the center of attention, and the idea that a child comes first is foreign to them.

  • The Limited didn’t want to TALK to me, ever. Wish granted. He didn’t want me to RUIN IT for him. I guess he shouldn’t have left his recycled live poems and her phone number where I could access it. She, the CUNTry whore accused ME of all the things she did, harassed me and thought she would be different. She is well aware if his deception as she knew he was a serial cheater.
    SHE wants us to be on speaking terms now. What is up with this?

    The wat I see it is it’s for image control My children and granddaughter know the truth about both of them. She has no idea he is seeing someone else. Done with that circus. I wish them a brutal new year filled with deception, pain and posessiveness. I am free and happy I know enough to move on with an authentic life with my great job, beautiful homes, amazing family, friends, laughter and freedom from the delusional fuckwits who live a pathetic existence of addictions and mental illness. Happy CHEATER FREE holidays. CN is the best present in the world.

  • He was surprised that I didn’t want to have him come over Christmas morning. He said it would be better for the kids for us all to be together. I said no. I can’t continue to build those memories.

    Then he wanted to put gifts he bought from Santa under the tree at my house. Again, no.

    • Twitching,
      In a way, I can relate. My family of origin wants me to spend time with abusive STBX under the same roof on Christmas Eve, even though I’ve told them what he’s done over the years. I refuse to spend social events with STBX, even though I don’t get to see my young kids on a holiday. I think that a lot of people will think that I am a bad mother for refusing to ‘hang out with’ my STBX in order to see my kids that evening. I still haven’t figured out how to explain the situation to my kids. If I were totally transparent, then I would say, ‘I’m afraid of your father. I’ve been afraid that he might hurt or kill me (and maybe you, too) although he was the one who cheated on his spouse (me) with women, men, prostitutes, stole from his spouse and kids, and filed for divorce.’ I’m afraid to say that, though, as I might traumatize my kids. Any suggestions are welcome.

      • RSW, My suggestion is this:

        “Your father has physically assaulted me in the past, and has issues which make it likely he may do it again. I do not wish to be in such a situation where I am at danger of being hurt or worse. He also has issues with boundaries, and has cheated and thieved from us in the past. I don’t want this to happen again. If you want to see him, thats fine – but please keep those words of mine in mind, and if you feel unsafe in his presence or any of his family, you are welcome to come back home to me. This house will always be a ‘safe’ environment free from abuse.”

        Feel free to add/remove whatever you like. Have a good Christmas, free from that fucknut.

  • My ex told me that OW was just like me! We look alike also. NOT! But hey…….my question is..IF this is what he wanted (someone like me)….why not just stay with me and have the life we had together? It doesn’t make any sense to me. I told him NEVER to compare me with OW. We are NOT ALIKE AT ALL. Her character is far too flawed to be anything like me. To that I got a blank stare.

  • Whore is nothing like me. He’s unable to find an intelligent attractive woman. Lol this was my therapists comment. At some point they do end up with their equal. He’s achieved that.

    • donna, I spoke with a therapist one time only but when I told her that the ex was 63 years old and had relocated to Phnom Penh with a 23 year old and her 2 little boys, well the therapist eyes widened and she said “he has sealed his own fate now, he won’t be coming back”. I hope she is correct.

      • Maree, he won’t be coming back – in his shanty-house there he’d be living like a king. Why would he come back to Oz to be a ‘lesser than’ dickhead? One who fucked a prostitute who could be the age of his grand-daughter?
        Have a great Christmas, Maree!

  • ‘I have to let her down in the right way, she has nothing and doesn’t deserve to be hurt anymore than I’ve already hurt her’ and he tried the you’d probably think she was really nice shit on me oh and when he confessed his undying love for her an hour or so later tried to tell me a funny story about how she jumped out of a taxi and squatted for a pee. Like I’d laugh because that’s soooo cray cray and hilarious. Pure class NOT.

  • I don’t think I’ve met any of Fat Bastards spanks, but I’ve seen enough crotch shots of them to offer them gynecological advice.

    • OMG, gepster!!!!! I freakin LOVE you!!!! You nail it perfectly every time!!! Wish you lived closer!!!!

  • He replaced loyal, loving and intelligent for desperate needy and sleazy. It was a choice. At one point I wished he had the strength to be a real man. Now, knowing the truth I will never engage in either of their sick logic of lowering myself to that standard of fuckedupness. Knowing that is empowering.

  • Okay. SO . . . it is evident by all my sniping today that this got under my skin. It was the caricature saying “so, we can still be friends, right?” It looked like my x and sounded like my x. Except he always qualified that we would be BEST friends forever. I shudder as I write this. I know it is not what CN was writing about, but the cartoon character completely messed with me.

    Re MoFaux’s Schmoopie: the day he met her I had a shiver go through me like someone had stepped on my grave. And then he started talking about how great she was. To me. To anyone who would listen. It was so creepy. Poor Chump Virago. He got dumped after a few months of love-bombing. She dodged a bullet, I’d say.

    As his BEST (cheating) friend, he wanted me to continue as Executor of his will and to keep that role for me. And share Enduring POA duties. OMG. That is so rich! No. No. No. A thousand resounding ‘No’s, complete with trumpets and a multiple gun salute. I have no idea how many guns represent the level of my horror and determination to rid my life of narcs (no reference to that particular occasion!!) With my level of pissedoffedness, it is definitely more that a 21 gun salute. Lots of guns. Big guns.

    • Virago, wouldn’t that give you the power to turn off his life support if he were in such a situation? Hint, hint. 😀
      And all his money if he kicks the bucket? 😀

        • Even better if you can put him into that situation yourself, but make it look like an accident. I think thats the ‘advanced’ version. 😀
          (No seriously, please don’t do this. Not worth the self-guilt. Morbidly funny to think of it, though!)

  • It’s such a common theme, isn’t it. “You’d like him or her.”

    Two APs leading a double life on their long time spouses for four years and in the big reveal he says, ‘…’you’d really like her…” Really? For real?

    –Think there’s something very twisted that happens to the deceitful mind in order to justify and diminish the actions of a double life. They have to convince themselves of this in order to soften the destruction for themselves.

    One year ago the biggie blow-me-out-of-the-water confess happened on NYE. This year I am in the dumps, in the blues as I realize last year the holidays leading up to were just his stressful amping up for the big reveal. Nothing feels real at the moment. As difficult as NC is, and the unraveling of memories on one’s own is, I do believe this grieving will end.

    • I truly never thought I would say this and actually mean it Chump4Bolero but it is true…the grieving will end and a wonderful new life will begin and just keep getting better. I promise.

      You will still have your day to day stressors but they will not have the added stress of the disordered asshole controlling your every thought thus they will be easier to bear and to deal with.

      I remember the first time – once completely separated from satan – I had to spend money on a big ticket item…I was terrified of the certain backlash I would receive as soon as he knew about the cost…then…slowly it dawned on me…the decision was mine alone and he had no say so EVER again over any part of my life. EVER. Quite freeing actually when you think about it. It will get easier for you, trust that.

      The abuse and destruction we suffered at their hands causes us to not feel safe in the world for a while…but I promise you it gets better and you will own your world again. I promise 🙂

      Hang in there Chump4Bolero! Merry Christmas and FABULOUS 2016! Don’t ever look back!

      • Chump4Bolero, listen to Jeep- she is spot on right!!!! I’m right there with you, Jeep- when I went out and got my car, new furniture, new clothes, stuff for baby girl, etc. at first I was like, “Oh God, The Evil One is going to blow a gasket!” Then I realized, “Not up to him anymore, I’m FREEEE!!!!”

      • Aw, thanks so much Jeep.

        LOL – So funny, I can’t make a freaking decision on big ticket items! Okay, I bought him out of his share of the house – but that was because I was in a roller-coaster fog of survival decisions last spring.

        Now, I am so stuck in – ‘well is it too expensive, is it in the budget, will he like it (he’s not here!), what if he doesn’t (still not here!), do I really like it, well I don’t know’… It’s nuts!

        You are so very right – There is a definite feeling of not feeling safe in the world, right now. It’s not even about the OW per say, but about the realization of living with such a deceiver – the aftermath of living in a storm cloud of his malcontent, living in the facade of love. It made me question my core, my judgement, my abilities. All the intimate things, all the moments I thought were mine, were shared with someone else for a long time. I cannot forgive that.

        -It’s very reassuring to hear this too shall pass …
        Merry Christmas and FABULOUS 2016 to you too!

        • I was right there with you Chump4Bolero, in that narc manufactured fog. It is not a sane place to be and not conducive to big decision making that is for sure. I was given the marital home in the divorce AND the mortgage on the home…I was terrified, as I am sure you are, that I couldn’t make it alone. I had lost my job due to down-sizing and there I was. I prayed and prayed for strength to get through it and be ok. The house was too big and it just cried out for a happy family full of kids, we had raised our boys and a couple of other boys there and they just love that house. satan and I had spent 30 years bringing it back to its original beauty – it is 200 years old and awesome, just an amazing structure – and it deserved to be loved. I was Blessed with buyers before the sign ever went in the yard! Within 2 months of the divorce being final I had bought a new home and sold the old one! Truly God was listening!

          Today I have lived in my new home, dubbed ‘Haven’ for exactly 8 months. I am struggling but I am ok and soooo much better than I was! You will be too!

          I was involved in an accident (totaled my Jeep! sob!!!) Tuesday before last and am so grateful to have survived it. I am ok, sore all over and have a (re)broken rib that is giving me fits but I am ok. Will now be making the second biggest decision since leaving satan…I have to buy a new vehicle… My family was on scene of the accident as we had just left the funeral of a family member and they were all understandably very upset but glad I survived…as I stood crying over my Jeep (cause that’s what we are narc trained to do – we aren’t important!) my sister said, ‘Jeep!!! You can get another vehicle! WE CAN’T GET ANOTHER YOU!’ There I was crying all over again!

          …she texted me later that night to make sure I was ok and she asked, ‘Was the Jeep the last remaining reminder of satan?’ I said yes…yes I believe so…she said, ‘Then the accident was meant to be! NOW you are truly FREE!’

          …wow huh…

          We are gonna make it Chump4Bolero 🙂

            • Thank you Mehbound and Chump4Bolero!

              I finally slept most of the night so my rib is healing 😀 YAY!!!

              I found a new JEEP yesterday!!! YAY!!!!

              We are all gonna be MIGHTY IN 2016!!!!

    • Mine x-wife knew I wouldn’t like her AP a fellow co-worker of her’s that was very disliked at the school.

      So two months after divorce, she approaches my daughter and tells her that he’s such a nice guy and that she wants to have him move in with us!! Really!!! .. she asked my 14 year old daughter at the time!

      LOL. My daughter knows the teacher as she went to school their…. she said NO WAY!!!!!

      I had moved out at that point and was renting a room with a friend till I could figure out what to do.

      My condo is almost ready and can’t wait to have my daughters stay over at my place….2016 will be BETTER!

      Thank You CL/CN…it’s been less than a year, but I too and feeling better. Not at MEH but getting closer.

      Happy Holidays:)

  • Bludger had never had a job- I was paying rent etc. We had a spare room; be great if troll# 1 could stay there when she came to visit(save motel room money) and other troll(2 and last) could move in at other times.Cos they were really nice people & I’d get on well with them! Because he was a fabulous rock star & I didn’t appreciate how lucky I was being the only one he was married to!

    • When my cheater first began an EA with her AP, she was going to have the AP and his family stay with us for a weekend. Sick sick sick.

      Disordered fucks. Who does that sort of thing?

      Anyhow, I discovered the budding EA and put an end to it – at least for a few months – eventually they reconnected deeply underground for a full on PA.

      But looking back to the beginnings – just blatant disrespect, but she was not even aware of the disrespect. She just wanted to show off to the potential AP and get his kibbles.

      So now going back to that time, maybe she never really did love me. Hard to tell.

      • Some people never really understand what love is. They think it’s a hallmark commercial butterfly feeling that should last forever. They don’t understand that love is action. Love is thinking not only about what you need but taking the time to listen to and care for other people. Society understands what love is among friends and family, especially children, but the ball really gets dropped when it comes to romantic love.

  • I got almost the opposite. When I found out he was involved with someone, he wouldn’t tell me who it was, just that it was someone random. Then he said “imagine someone you would hate, and you wouldn’t be too far off from the truth”.
    I found out who it was, and when googled her I saw that he was totally right. She’s the exact opposite of me. Fake neon hair, multiple tattoos,and very overweight. (I’m a small brunette physician.) I can’t tell if she has a job, but she does have a tiny dog that she dresses up in costumes.

    I have no idea where he met her. But he knew that we were nothing alike and would never be friends.

    • I think my ex went kind of opposite too. I was 20 something, petite, too much of a doormat and he picked a middle aged woman who was bossy. I think they go for someone way below their spouse’s league. I’m fairly certain that we can do better.

  • Almost Christmas here, so just wishing all you guys a merry Christmas/whatever else you guys celebrate depending on religious creed/belief! Enjoy yourselves and don’t go overboard with alcohol! Stay safe, everyone. And if you do anything bad, I don’t want it named after me! Haha.

  • I found this site only today and already it has helped me sooo much. Five months of agony and I finally know that I’m not the only one. I see his sorry arse in every page I read. He said that she was so much like me that we would be fast friends. I asked him what he meant and he said,. ‘She’s generous and crazy… just like you!”. Really?? Is she going to support you for 17 years like I did?

    She then sent a FB message saying that he was sooo miserable with her and that we could get over this. It really wasn’t that big a deal and I should take him back. OMG… it’s the one time I’ve laughed in five months. You’ve realized what a selfish child he is and you’re trying to kick him to the curb and you want ME to help you do it!

    I don’t know how I found the courage to tell him that he couldn’t come home. But, I did. How did I not know who he really was for all those years? Are all my happy memories lies? I guess so. All I know is that if he had it in him to do it once… he’ll do it again… and if I take him back… I’m pretty much announcing my acceptance of that. Well.. fk that.

    You wanted him, lady… he’s YOUR problem now.

    • Good for you Blu, these are tough early days. Do NOT take him back. He wanted out of your family.., he’s out. Stay strong and visit us here, this place got me through. (((Big hugs)))

    • Blu3sLdy, it’s lots more fun for the OW when they think they have something you want. Kind of like an auction, it’s no fun when you are the only bidder. These loser cheaters are lots more interesting in limited doses, like when you are asleep, than a steady all day , every day Real relationship. Good for you for kicking his ass to the curb. Now, nobody wants him.

    • WOW!!! Blu3sLdy!!!! You are already MIGHTY!!!

      I wish I had caught on as quick as you have! Would have saved myself a whole lot of heartache (and body weight! LOL!)

      I agree with you! Soul sucking narc is her problem now! I pretty much feel that way most days now – ho did me an immense FAVOR cheating with satan! She helped save me from a life that was eating me alive!

  • About a month after I found out they had sex, but my husband was still insisting they were “just friends,” I found out she wanted to come visit him and have him be her tour guide in Germany, where we were living. In what I think was his attempt to show me how committed he was to me, he said to me he told her he would, but ONLY if I came along, too. Oh joy. Can I really come too? Can I tear both your eyes out every time you make doe eyes at each other? In what universe did he think it would be a good idea to have the three of us in the same room? Or that I’d ever want to meet her?

  • My ex’s new wife suggested that we do a “girls weekend” with my ex sister-in-laws and her… at my house (I moved to a lovely warm place far away from my ex). Uhhh, NO.WAY.IN.HELL!

  • Until I read this I never realised that this “being friends” BS was standard part of cheaterspeak.

    My ex-h’s words were ” It’s a pity you couldn’t have met X under different circumstances, I’m sure you would have liked her and got on, you have a lot in common”.

    This convinced me that cheaterpants had really lost the plot and had something very peculiar going on with his brain that I didn’t understand and didn’t want to.

    I was an articulate, intelligent professional woman with a career, degree educated, good salary and had scruples. She was a thicko factory worker with a brain the size of a pea and the morals of an alley cat. How he could put us in the same bracket I will never know.

    I threw him out and divorced him. He came sniffing around some 6 months later a poor sad sausage, asking if he could come back and rent a room ( ! ) You see she wasn’t like me she was selfish and insensitive – well ho! ho! ho!

    I told him to go and lie in the bed he’d made. Isn’t “karma” wonderful?

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