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Dear Chump Lady, He “can’t cope with the guilt” of who he is

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assunicornDear Chump Lady,

I was cheated on by my ex, for the first year I hadn’t any idea. There were 5 to 6 other women. There have been several sex messages, pictures, arranging to meets, and other indiscretions. Nineteen other women in total and I found the majority out when I was 7 months pregnant with our son. I left when my little boy was 7 months old. I’d had enough. He wasn’t happy about this and ended up coming to my house and smashed the glass in my door in his temper.

I’ve been doing okay since, looking after my children on my own (I have two). Yes, I went through the wanting to die to get rid of that pain that we all know so well. But my children have kept me sane and kept me going. I’ve recently changed my number and gone cold turkey on him. It does make it easier.

He has managed to get this message to me.

I can’t cope with the guilt of who I am. I was reading my ex-wife’s court statement last night where she detailed her side of things regarding mine and her relationship whilst married.

I can see why you have become sympathetic to her, because everything she says is every thing you say.

I’ve make the same mistakes with both of you, treated you both badly. At times I probably didn’t even realise it, to be honest.

I need to do what’s right, I need to change myself and my ways. You make me a better person.

Please help me. Please give me a chance.

Yes he cheated on her throughout, and an affair at the end was the last straw for her.

I know I can not help him. That is down to him. Right now I’m not going to reply. I have thought about it. But I have come to you first, as I contemplate with riding that unicorn. Any advice would be appreciated .

Thanks,

Vixenchump

Dear Vixenchump,

Personally, I have a policy of never riding unicorns with people who smash in my doors. It’s just a little boundary I have. I suggest you adopt it.

So yes, do not reply. STAY NO CONTACT at all costs. Any communication goes through a lawyer. If you don’t have a protection from abuse order, get one. Because then if he tries that third-party kind of communication shit, he goes to jail. Whatever way he got that message to you, close that loophole if at all possible.

I know what you really want me to address is if you have a unicorn. (No, you do not. See my cartoon.) You want to know if he’s really sorry. If he’s crippled with guilt. If he’s been visited by the Ghosts of Christmases Past, Present, and Future, laments what a terrible wretch he is, and buys Tiny Tim a delicious goose.

Sorry, no.

How do I know? Maybe I’m just a cynic who reads tens of thousands of chump disaster stories and is a tad jaded? I know because I put his apology through the Universal Bullshit Translator.

I can’t cope with the guilt of who I am.

I cope so well with the guilt of being an abusive cheater that I have 19 other woman and I’m trolling for more. I’m so wracked with guilt, I had one marriage break up, and I cheated through my second.

What I can’t cope with is the loss of control and kibbles.

I was reading my ex-wife’s court statement last night where she detailed her side of things regarding mine and her relationship whilst married.

I can see why you have become sympathetic to her, because everything she says is every thing you say.

People SAY I’m abusive. I don’t think I am. I didn’t write, “I abused you both,” I wrote that you “say” the same things.

It’s not about me or my actions, it’s about you bitches thinking badly of me.

I’ve make the same mistakes with both of you, treated you both badly. At times I probably didn’t even realise it, to be honest.

Yes, having 19 Other Women in one marriage is merely a mistake or two (or 19). Heck, I didn’t even REALIZE I was hurting you! There was no aforethought whatsoever. That’s why I went to such great lengths to conceal my activities — amnesia! Absentmindedness! Another dating profile? Doink! I’m such a silly dunderhead.

I need to do what’s right, I need to change myself and my ways.

I need a new strategy to gain control. I need to flip the channel from rage to charm and self-pity.

You make me a better person.

You’re a chump who needs to believe that you make me a better person. I’m a person who puts my fist through doors and treats women like shit. But you believe in me! I’m a mystical, misunderstood unicorn and only YOU can save me!

Please help me. Please give me a chance.

Please give me a chance to abuse you further. Please come back so I can build those walls higher and erode your self-esteem so you can’t escape again. Please let me hurt you.

Boy, Vixenchump — who could resist an offer like THAT?

He is tapping into your deep well of decency and chumpiness. The part of you that believes in redemption and second (or 15th) chances. Who thinks she has superpowers of love to change people. Who is afraid to be a single mom and falter. Who misses the lie of who she thought he was.

Don’t fall for it. Stay mighty.

Even if this guy has changed (he has not), he’s still a guy who cheated on you repeatedly and got violent. You can NEVER trust him. This relationship is dead and over. Don’t resurrect dead things. In the horror movies, resurrected dead things lurch around and kill you.

You escaped. Please, let’s keep it that way.

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Vixenchump, if he wants to “do what’s right” and “change himself and his ways”, that’s wonderful – especially when it comes to your kids. HOWEVER, that has nothing to do with you. You figured out all on your own how to be a good, decent, faithful person. You didn’t need anyone to lead the way. If he’s serious about changing, he will. No one makes anyone a better person. You don’t have that power. Don’t allow this cake-seeker to breathe anymore of your oxygen.

  • Yeah, this dude is really messed up and dangerous. STAY AWAY! If it is any consolation re: giving him a second chance, you already did that (albeit without knowing) by staying through 19 OW.

  • That remorse thing on their side is just smoke and mirrows. Mine would say “Get over it”, “Move forward”, “I am the one that has to live with the guilt of what I have done for the rest of my life” and he would merrily continue on behind my back. Huh? “That feeling guilty thing must have really weighted heavy on him. Sweep it all under the rug, you are a nuisance and I REALLY don’t want ‘ to deal with it, I want to eat cake in peace, that’s the message I received when I finally fell of the unicorn.

    • “Sweep it all under the rug, you are a nuisance and I REALLY don’t want ‘ to deal with it, I want to eat cake in peace, that’s the message I received when I finally fell of the unicorn.”

      Wow, well said, same here. Good effing grief they are all so much alike.

      • You can choose to move forward, to move on, we can have a relationship, I know it can never be the same, but we had a good life together blah blah blah

        Right, it will never be the same, because now I know you are a serial cheater, I will never trust you again, ever. Don’t put the onus on me for not wanting to reconcile. If our life was so good why did you fuck strange for 40+ years? Not my monkey, not my circus anymore.

  • Yes, Vixenchump. Stay mighty and stay sane. Don’t go chasing unicorns with this manipulator.

    First of all ‘I’ve make the same mistakes with both of you, treated you both badly. At times I probably didn’t even realise it, to be honest’ extrapolated means ‘but most of the time I damn well did know I was abusing both you, but didn’t give a shit. To be honest’.

    In terms us Chumps understand; everyone makes ‘mistakes’ but the only path to redemption is by reviewing those mistakes and never making them again. This man learned nothing from the ‘mistakes’ he made in his first marriage and went on to make 19 more ‘mistakes’ in his marriage with you. If there is redemption for him, let him try it with wife #3 (he won’t, of course he won’t … the blameshifting ‘she says what you say’ proves it IMHO. The violent outburst and the pity party now proves it.

    He’s typical and he’s utterly untrustworthy. 19? Dear God!

    • “Mistake”…..BARRRRRF!!! I’ve never hated that word more than before my own D-day!! MY STBX (who had a 6 month long affair with a ho-worker) constantly tells me “It was a mistake!!”. Oh really? A mistake? I guess you it was a “mistake” the first time you wiped her stuff off your penis. And then it was another “mistake” after the second round up in that teacher lounge restroom. Hey, it was a “mistake” twice a day every day! For six months!

      People….REAL mistakes start out with GOOD INTENTIONS. It is NEVER a mistake to cheat. Even if the cheaters are remorseful afterward, IT IS NEVER A MISTAKE.

      • Just to be clear; I don’t regard cheating as ‘a mistake’ either. Cheaters (the clusterfuck poor excuse for a human being I was unfortunate enough to have encountered, included) consistently excuse their behaviour as ‘mistakes’. Even just ONE ONS involves a series of decisions to deceive, betray, gaslight, abuse.

        • I see that you don’t, Jayne. My apologies if my agreement didn’t come across very clearly. Perhaps I made a MISTAKE in replying directly to your post…;)….but your comment really spoke to me and my own situation.

          Ugh, fuck cheaters.

          • ooh no! Don’t think you made a mistake justchumped! I thought maybe I’d been unclear where I stood on the hated ‘mistake’ excuse! LOL – God we’re both proper Chumps, aren’t we!!!! 😀

            • No, no mistakes. Deliberate entitled bastards/bitches do what they want without thoughts if hurting the faithful spouse and absolutely no idea of damage to the family. No, no mistakes. I’m properly chumped too.

      • To all…..Yep, the “M” word is tossed around so freely by these cheater freaks!

        I have this same aversion to that word when used in this context as you, justchumped.

        An example of a true ‘mistake’ is grabbing a jug of 2% milk when you intended to buy whole milk. Or, getting off the highway at the wrong exit. Sheesh!!!!

        Just glad I am in good company with the delightful souls of Chump Nation! Love all y’all!

        For vixenchump: {{{{{HUGS!!!}}}}} What you are dealing with is one of satan’s most beloved henchmen! STAY NO CONTACT and protect your babies!

        ForgeOn!!

    • “Mistake” – that’s the term they all use. As we were leaving the court house after our custody hearing, cheater followed me even though he was parked in the opposite direction. He kept talking as I was trying to speed walk away from him without saying a word. He used the word “mistake” which, even though I had heard him use it before, stopped me dead in my tracks. I gave him an earful about how he didn’t make a “mistake”, he made a “choice” – repeatedly. A “mistake” was when he dented my car unintentionally but he “chose” to troll for women to hook up with and lie to me. I don’t think he used the word “mistake” again.

    • Oh, the dreaded “mistake” of repeated affairs! It’s not a character flaw, it’s a mistake! Just one big mistake with a lot of different women. It’s amazing how these disordered types can use words that we chumps relate to, like “mistake,” to minimize their unspeakable behavior AND blame shift at the same time. The ex would always say to me, “you’ve just never been able to forgive me for my one mistake.” (the first affair that I caught him in) This would pull on my heartstrings and make me think that perhaps I should be more forgiving, more understanding. And true to my chump nature, I fell for it. Meanwhile, he was STILL CHEATING! The shitty character it takes to ask for forgiveness for a “mistake” while repeating the same behavior over and over again just blows my mind.

      Love this, justchumped: “Real mistakes start out with good intentions.” Yes!

      • You know what’s worse though? When chumps on infidelity boards who are in unicorn land defend the use of the word “mistake” when referring to their cheater asshat’s affair(s). I’ve gone rounds with these people on a few different occasions and it’s almost more pathetic to me than when the cheater asshat uses it.

        I guess you have to believe it’s a “mistake” if you’re living on fantasy island!

        • I think the word ‘Mistake’ is the go to used by cheaters, cheater apologists/minimisers, Switzerland friends, ‘forgive the mistake’ spiritual well-being peddlers. It’s the word that nails chumps to wreckonciliation and the infidelity boards, and the word that has chumps questioning their own good sense.

          • So true. Unfortunately I was once one of those fantasy land people (not on message boards, though), defending the ex to my family and friends for his initial indiscretions….also patting myself on the back for being so “forgiving.” Makes me cringe now!

        • I agree. The other thing I find really weird in reading responses from those boards is the Female Chump declaring the OW was out to “steal” her man. Nope. No one is “stolen”. An “opportunity” is chosen. A choice is made to disrespect your partner.

          I don’t see much of that mindset with the Male Chumps. They just declare, for the most part, that their partner is a cheating whore.

          • ANC – I have had the same thought to some lady chump’s comments here on CL. I think it as a bit of a cop-out to say a woman “stole” your man. It’s ALL on him. He cheated. He lied. OW has nothing to do with it frankly. If it wasn’t her hole, it would have been another.

            My wife is a cheating cunt.

      • “It just happened” is another phrase we can add to the most hated list. Yes, the mistake of you answering the thousands of texts, phone calls, lunches, happy hours, hook ups and meeting on the 7th floor “just happened.” And the stays at those hotels? Mistakes. Should have never called for the reservation….

        Definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and calling it a mistake.

          • Yes – that was my cheater’s line. Not his fault – he didn’t make a decision to act with no values and hurt me… it “just happened”

            He just happened to spend all day talking and texting another woman… he just happened to block me from his social media contacts with her… he just happened to drive 4 hours to regularly fuck her…

            Yep… not room for rational decision making there, no need to take responsibility….. “it just happened”

            • “My misdeed” is how my cheater referred to his 2 year affair/double life.

              I mean, what kind of supposedly loving woman has trouble letting go of a misdeed?

  • Dear Chump Lady,

    I just discovered this site and I would just like to say that you are absolutely amazing. Unbelievable. I am just starting down my path of escape from being a chump and your words here are incredibly helpful. Thanks.

    • Welcome to the club (although, it’s not a club anyone ever wants to join, is it?). Please feel free to stick around and tell your story, either in the comments or on the forums.

      I caught my XH cheating for the last time 16 months ago and now I’m divorced, happy, about to finish my master’s degree, building up my career, dating much better men, and living in a place I like. Amazing support here.

    • Welcome, Dixie. When I arrived here I thought Unfuckingbelievable! I’m no contact now, a concept that would’ve never entered my head before CL, but back in the day I ran the UBT in my head while he was talking. It was fun for a while and really helped me see that there was no good in there, I wasn’t ever going to find a small pocket of good.

    • Yep. You already picked s good name. This place gives you a backbone when you don’t have one yourself. Some folks think we’re bitter, I prefer to think ‘unrepentantly pro-me’ because usually they’re just telling us how we should make ouselves matter less. I have no interest in being miserable and a martyr, I deserve to find happy.

    • Welcome to CN Dixie!

      This community saved my sanity! The support, stories, and knowledge I found here helped me stop my hopium habit, go NC, and start the next chapter of my life. 16 months in, divorced and having to share custody with a flaming cover narc is rough, but I am glad to have CN as I keep forging on to Meh.

      Looking forward to pay it forward to you and fellow chumps as much as I can!

  • You can never trust this man so giving him another chance will just prolong the agony. You got out and you’ve gained a life!

  • Stay away and keep yourself safe. He’s trying to tap into one of those key chump vulnerabilities – validation from the cheater that what they did to us is wrong. But like all cheaters he doesn’t really mean it. He just wants his chump back. Stay mighty!

    • He didn’t even say wrong! He said mistake. Sorry… Your dick ended up in 19 holes and you didn’t know? Seriously! I treasure the thought of him making a similar mistake at the finishing (cut/trim) area of a sausage factory. Pretty damn sure every time he knew specifically he shouldn’t and wouldn’t be ok from the wife’s side. That’s why it was hidden.

  • CL is right. There is no accountability from him in that message, just begging and manipulation.I would really like to find the I Don’t Feel Sorry for You button in my heart too. I can’t believe I still find myself feeling sympathy for someone who has treated me so badly. But don’t confuse sympathy with forgiveness. You can see that he’s a messed up sad sack, and still know it doesn’t change the past and has nothing to do with you. He is way out there on the unicorn to colossal dickhead scale. He needs a few years of intense therapy to even be allowed to talk to you. You said you’re doing fine, so carry on! Maybe soon you’ll be doing great, and the idea of allowing him back in your life will seem laughable.

    • Liningupducks, I should program my phones’ ring tone so when my cheater Ex calls I’ll hear those exact words, in my own voice!

    • Yup, don’t reply. VixenChump–just click your heels together 3 times and say “There’s no place like mighty, there’s no place like mighty…..”

  • Yes vixen chump, u have made such progress by emancipating urself from this insatiable sex troll, why digress now? His letter is pathetically shallow, I don’t think he put much thought into it, he is just feeling sorry for himself. What would there be to speak about? Obviously he can’t help being an asshole, no one can make him into a ‘better person’. You know the saying, you can put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig! By the way how did you manage to figure out he was fornicating with 19 women?!!

    • I read every message and saw every graphic picture. ( yes he was in them too ) He used dating sites, and other social media sites to chase his targets. It only took a look at his phone / laptop. There will of been many more , but that’s what I counted up. Narcissistic Twat !!!

      • If he really needed you to be better, then how come he wasn’t better to you. Wouldn’t that change have miraculously occurred as soon as you were dating? “Shit! Look at that! I am no longer a douchy cheater, with no soul, I gotta lock this down”…. No. That’s not what happened. “Shit! She lets me get away with this (in my head he will always find a way to blame you- you trusting him is the same as permission to this twisted fuck) so now I will find more orifices, and let her raise my family and potentially infect her with diseases”

        Nope. Nope. Nope. Run for your damn life.

      • Vixenchump ur lucky he was so careless and left so much evidence, that way you were able to make a clear cut decision. Mine was a sneaky fucker hence my name on this site ‘fbi’ i had to turn virtually into sherlock Holmes to validate that my instincts were right about his cheating! Big hug and happy that you are doing well and staying strong!

    • Did he even write that uninspired missive himself? Cause my immediate thought, not knowing him, of course, was that he and a buddy sat at the bar and took suggestions from other cheaters for what key phrases should work.

  • He’s putting the burden on you to “make him a better man.” You don’t exist as some manic pixie dream girl whose presence exists for his benefit. You are your own person, and he only sees you as how you exist to serve him. He’s not trying to understand your needs out of a partner, only saying that you are an object, a foil, in his narcissistic world and he likes having you around for whatever reason. It will never be a partnership, he doesn’t see you as an actual person.

  • hey Vixenchump, your story mirrors but mine!!!!!!!!!!! 7 months pregnant with dear daughter number 3 and he left his email up. I was happy and in love and had NO IDEA!!!!!!!!! That man didn’t delete any emails for like 5 years. I had them all. Numerous women. Weird , really strange fetish stuff that I HAD NO IDEA about. I was shocked!!! He wrote the daddy/married column for the local paper! We were happy. We were in love. I was pretty and thin and blonde! and he had been cheating the entire time! I didn’t wait til that baby was 7 months old. My DD was a Friday and I was at the lawyer’s on Monday. I had reconciled once with him with our first daughter was just a baby. He had been fired at work for sending sexually explicit emails to an underage intern.

    I too was the second wife a good ten or fifteen years later. That ex wife found me and we are fast friends. People don’t understand why. I see it as no one else on the earth knows what we both went through than each other.

    That baby I was pregnant with will be turning 7 this year. I had a hard road. I’m not going to lie. I had to work two jobs, a full time one and a part time one at like 3 am, and give a room in my home out to a college kid. I had to pinch and scrape and to care for my three kids. I had to share custody and miss them on Christmas morning and have them come home Easter morning confused that the Easter bunny didn’t arrive.

    I had my feelings hurt A LOT when guys would approach me and say I was pretty and ask me out and I would respond with “I have three kids.. all under the age of four!” and they’d say NEVERMIND. I was rejected by people I didn’t even ask out cause I had “So many kids” !

    BUT … stay the course.

    One day I went on a ride a long at work in another dept and like always, the guy said, “you’re pretty! I like you. Want to go out?” and I did the “I have three daughters! All under 5!” and he said, “you know what? I have two daughters. I’m divorced too. My wife took off with my best friend. I don’t care.”

    We are getting married next month. I only work one job now (through my own efforts not through repartnering) but I am happy. My kids are happy. I take great great great satisfaction that my house is mine and so is my car and I have my own health insurance and I’m stable and I did it.

    My ex is remarried to a lovely young girl who cares deeply for my three girls. He’s not living in hell without me. He’s happy. and I’m at meh! I am totally at MEH!

    Stay the course!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • You go, Girl!!!!

      So thrilled for you and your finance, NoWire! So good that 2 precious, honest people found each other!

      ForgeOn!

    • No Wire…. Thank you so much. I’m sending you a massive cyber hug for that. Your reply made me smile and has given me so much hope. I know we will be ok and better off without his ways x

    • So, I have a question. You state that he is married to a lovely woman who is good to your daughters…….he’s happy. Do you really think he’s capable of being in a healthy relationship?

      • Do I think cheater’s change their spots? NO I don’t. I hope he’s not on the internet cheating although.. he probably is. I don’t know. I don’t give it too much consideration but I do that my kids are attached to wife number 3 and I hope for his sake that he’s not. I am not going to lie. I’ve pulled up in their driveway many a time, and I wonder why he can be faithful and a good husband to her.. but I was very much happy and in love and BLIND on D day. I don’t know what he told her about why we are divorced. Probably got the whole “we just weren’t compatible” or some other mystic drivel that I know when I hear, I run the other way. But wife # 3 is not any of the affair partners and she is good to me kids and I THANK JESUS everyday the nutso Schmoopie isn’t in that role. She is in mental ward.

        • Also may I add, I was the one who worked when we were married and he stayed home. WIth his new wife…. she works and he stays home (and they don’t have kids together).

    • NoWire — congrats! As for your ex, I’m thinking he’s “happy” because he found a new chump. She supports him? Yeah, I don’t give that long odds. But doesn’t matter — YOU are standing on your own and are mighty! Congrats on the new relationship. 🙂

  • It is not your job to fix him. The fact that he acts as if he’s entitled to your wonderfulness and “you make me a better person”.. is a clear sign of a narcissist. It’s all about him.. even in that email. You make HIM a better person. HE needs to feel better about himself.. HIS guilt. What about you? What about your feelings? I this idiot was even half way remorseful, his overtures would talk about YOU not HIM!!!!

    Repeat offender? Glass doors? MOVE ON. NO CONTACT.

    • Newchumpatl–You are so correct it is not our job to ‘fix’ them. I recall that several times, in response my futile effort to make the XBF see the error of his ways, the fool whined: “teach me how to be a man”.

      WTF? It wasn’t MY place to “teach” a 56 year old how to be a man! I AM NOT A MAN for one thing.

      His father failed that as he was a chronic cheater with an entire other family while remaining married.

      Of all the idiotic things this worthless waste of male DNA ever said, I do believe this is the most ridiculous.

      Teach him to be a man, indeed!

      To the XBF’s son’s credit, with absolutely NO examples of ‘how to be a man’ from his father, son enlisted in the Marines and served his country admirably.

      Seems like “being a man” is either in your DNA or it’s not…..

    • Spot on newchumpatl. “You make me a better person” puts the importance squarely on the cheater. But even worse, the cheater is literally telling Vixen what she can do for him. How twisted is it that in the one sentence that was meant to tell Vixen how important she is, that the cheater puts the emphasis back on himself?! Can these people help themselves? Evidently not. Deaf, dumb and blind.

    • Good point, newchumpatl, about it being all about him. I just got hit with a boo-hoo-hoo message from him about how he “wants his life back”…. didn’t hear anything about “I’m sorry about what I’ve done to you….”

      • I get those too, and it’s been almost three years. Always some poor-me bullshit, never real sorrow, regret or accountability. Had the nerve to wish me a happy new year, anniversary of when I walked in on him and Skankalina ( d-day #1). Doesn’t even remember the significance. That’s who they are.

  • Ughhhh, I wasted 20 years of my life on an abuser. He wasn’t a cheater, to my knowledge. Looking back, I don’t know what I saw in him. But he was a manipulative narc and I was a young woman, and I didn’t really stand a chance. They always escalate, and I really feared for my life, literally. Please don’t be me twenty years from now. Stay away from this guy.

  • I read lots of blogs. So many blogs written by women who are trying reconciliation. They break my heart. They are so articulate about their broken lives and yet they persevere. I think how horrible it would be to realize you have to break up a family, a home and lives. Yet, to continue living with a person who thinks nothing of cheating and lying for years must be gut wrenching. There is one written by a woman whose husband cheated on her two years into the marriage. He had another affair that lasted a year. He reconnected with his first cheating partner and planned on leaving his wife. She writes so beautifully about what she has gone through but believes her husband has all this behind him. He cheated off and on for 25 of their 27 year marriage. He is a serial cheater who LIED to his wife her entire adult life and yet she has hopes of a happy future. For her, for all those blogging chumps who continue to believe I hope they get their HEA. I just wish I believed it. You are so smart to have left. You would have been years into this pain otherwise. I base what I know on my brother. He got total custody of his children, went no contact and moved on. I think the NC was his salvation. He was over her fairly quickly for someone who had loved her from a very young age. You really cannot make 2and 2 be anything but 4 and you can’t make a cheater a person of integrity. Good for you for leaving.

    • I read saving shards too. I love her perspective but I also read because she is fully first and foremost supportive of the betrayed spouse and acknowledges that she hopes to be the exception and that ‘repeat cheat’ is the standard rule. Her husband seems to be the real unicorn. His commentary on her blog always take responsibility. None of this blame shift crap. I think she also has the (dis?) advantage of being very very far into their marriage – with younger kids, less years under the belt, it is still a bitch to untangle but you have a lot more time (potentially) to get your balance back on your own. You haven’t already invested 27 years, when giving it a chance seems like- what… One more year, reassess etc? I dunno. But I am not her. I am not ok with that.

      • Chumps really got to get clear on the investment vs. Sunk costs concept. Investments grow over time. Sunk costs are just gone.

        • Exactly right, Arlo. But for most of us a marriage is an investment. We compromise or sacrifice our independent future plan to enter it. We give a lot of ourselves to it. Time, money, effort. We expect it to succeed because we are invested, and give it our all. It’s only when we finally see the balance sheet (which can take years) that we realize a snake oil salesperson took a chunk of our future and put it in the past and paid no dividends. I don’t think it’s a misunderstanding of the concepts, but rather a lack of information to conduct the analysis that is the problem.

          • Yep, unfortunately we won’t know until we are looking back on it. We can invest in ourselves, invest in our children, that’s always a good bet. Invest in the marriage until it becomes evident that it’s a loss. Then, no use throwing good years after bad.

            • The problem is the lack of information. If we have no indication it is bad, we aren’t looking for the balance sheet.

      • IMHO, she seems a lovely lady. But definitely a chump. Backed up with a solid dash of religion. There are a few warning bells with this blog, her serial cheating husband turned it “all around” FAR too quickly. Any unicorn owner (and I know one of two) knows that just does not happen that quickly, neatly and that entirely. Also, he follows and comments liberally on her blog – that also freaks the bejesus out of me – “look at me, I am SUCH a good boy [kibble now?]” Doing ALL the right things now, right, wink, wink.

        • I have hope for her. I don’t know what may come of it. But someone deserves recovery. I know you’re also with someone who is… Fairly heavy with the knowledge of what he destroyed. Rules always have exceptions. So I hope that sometime I meet one. In your case, you got a unicorn but can’t actually heal. That is… Totally still all on him and he fucked it all. In her case- she and he are ‘healing’ so I hope to god she has a unicorn. How destructive will it be if it’s truly a sham… Fuck. This just sucks.

            • I’ll see your year’s salary and raise it a year.

              This guy is so disordered that he’s taking pleasure in acknowledging that he cheated, pretending he’s sorry and will change, and is then probably having a good laugh at her expense with the current whores he’s screwing.

              The only more satisfying thing than covert kibbles and cake is blatantly overt kibbles and cake, where you can run your game, brag behind the chump’s back to your fellow cheaters, and laugh at your chump’s expense with the other whores.

              I know. My narc ex used to parade his girlfriends around new restaurant openings and then take them to shops we would frequent, and then turn around and bring me along a few days later to the same places, seemingly just to be able to brag to people at those establishments about how good he was for being able to get multiple women behind his wife’s back.

              Several told me after the fact that they couldn’t understand why a girl like me would be with a fat, selfish bastard like him. I think they assumed I was in it for the money and knew about his galavanting. I did not. I loved him and thought we had a real marriage. My bad.

              This poor girl is in a major, and majorly public chump situation. She is going to waste years on this and then be even more humiliated by having to admit to herself and others that she wasted years being publicly chumped.

              I feel so sorry for her. I wish someone could talk some sense in to her so she doesn’t waste so much of her life on this loser.

              There are no unicorns. That’s why they’re unicorns. Otherwise they would be zebras: rare, but existent. Unicorns don’t exist. They’re made up make-believe. Always.

  • I’m glad you submitted your letter to pinpoint exactly how he manipulates you. the good news is that there is NOTHING you can do to improve your relationship with a narcissist. They don’t have relationships. They believe natural law of “consequences” is beneath them, and in this case you do have the power to let him “get away with this behavior”. And you also have to power to let him feel the consequences. I imagine he has cut, pasted and emailed this to 19 other people if that puts it in perspective. Good luck on your next chapter of life, free of this energy drain.

    • You can bet it was a form letter that went out to several women. They are that cold, calculating and duplicitous. They are inhuman.

  • VixenChump

    “You make me a better person”.
    You make me a better person because other women are attracted to me while I pretend to be a loving husband with children. I tell them how horrible my life is with you and demean you to hook them. You make me look good!!! Without the cover you provide it will be more difficult to get supply as I will be a twice divorced cheater who has no contact with either of my X wives. That will be a red flag. And I really do like to have a place to call home otherwise I’ll have to pay child support and pay for my own place. Pretending is much better for ME.

    • This is a brilliant addition/alternate UBT, Donna. Chump lady, as always, nailed it. VixenChump, I’m glad you left, happy you went NC. Stay the course, come here often for support. Please DO NOT take a hit off the hopium pipe.

    • Donna I think you’re spot on here. While there are quite a few reasons they want to keep their primary relationship I feel it’s often overlooked how very useful that relationship is to help them secure supply.
      Not only do they look like a guy who commits but they look like a super committed good guy because they stay despite their desperate “unhappiness”.
      Side dish thinks she’s scored a keeper. Mwahahaha

    • perfect Donna.

      To this line, “And I really do like to have a place to call home otherwise I’ll have to pay child support and pay for my own place.”, I just want to add “and clean it, do my own laundry, pay bills, take care of the kids myself when I have them, etc. etc. etc.”. All the mundane things that were boring to him in the first place. Guess what? It’s the wife that doing these things for him. Of course he doesn’t want to lose the woman who does all that for him.

      • They do what’s easy.the Limited was always on the prowl yet in the 36 years we were married he always downsized to living with a family member. Never once did he get his own place. He has never lived ALONE. It was always about supply. After I threw him out he moved right into the whore’s dump. It was easy. He bragged she didn’t have money. Serial cheaters will use us for supply for years. They have no conscience.
        Vixenchump stay the path to mightiness. Let the sociopath fend for himself.

    • Serial players need the wife at home as a reason for being unavailable for a real relationship. They get the benefits and don’t have to really be around.

    • Good points, Donna!! On that note–VixenChump, I’ll bet you could quickly list 3 things that you’re REALLY, REALLY good at, and 3 more that you’re pretty good at. Know what’s not on that list? Making your X a better person. Why? Cuz he still sucks even after years with you. Go be good with YOU.

  • Part of the difficulty in leaving a marriage is losing what you thought you had. You thought you had a loving partner, someone who would be there for you no matter what. In turn, you want be supportive of your husband, no matter what. You want to believe he is the loving person you married. The problem is that he is not that person.He is capable of hurting you and your children, and he has shown you that by his conduct. CL is always telling us to look at what they do, not at what they say. Your husband’s actions, not just in cheating, but also in getting violent at your home, presumably in front of your kids, tells you everything you need to know. You must protect your family above all else, and protect yourself from a clear and present danger.

    I understand how difficult it is to let go of that vision you had for your marriage. It’s what keeps people stuck in bad marriages. But you cannot let that vision put you in harm’s way. If your husband truly wants to change, it is his responsibility to do so. That is 100% on him. Your responsibility is to yourself and your children. They need you and their needs must come first, above all else. If you feel yourself waiver, just remind yourself what kind of life your children would have without you. This situation is that serious! Please do not give this man the opportunity to harm you or your children.

    • This is the truth, Vixenchump! We all know your Ex, very well. The greatest predictor of future behavior is past behavior. He will not change. He doesn’t love anyone but himself. Get the child support you are owed & stay no contact. Your happy ending will not be with this man!

  • Vixenchump, there’s a lesson that I’m still learning even though I sent my cheater packing several years ago. You and I need to stop listening so much to a person’s words and watch what they actually DO.

    What has this guy done? He’s slept with dozens of other women. He’s violent. This is not someone you want to be around.

    • Elizabeth Lee – that is a very good point. Mine always talks about what a “provider” he’s been, how he’s sacrificed for the kids and the family… yet he’s been unemployed a total of 9 years out of 26 (that’s more than a third of the time we’ve been married); he’s never home (always “working late”, you know…. turns out all he was working on was his bar tab and whatever hooch was on the next stool)…. but IRONICALLY he always throws that “its actions not words” thing in MY face, because I complained he never said nice things, to be, didn’t say “I love you”, ever…. etc.

      • Mine was an excellent provider but he still sucks donkeyballs in the “human being” department. Whatever good traits they have (or imagine that they have) doesn’t matter in the face of cheating, IMHO.

  • “I can see why you have become sympathetic to her, because everything she says is every thing you say.”

    This line … I don’t even know what to say. The UBT nailed it – he accepts no accountability. You and his OTHER ex are just two harpies ganging up on his wonderfulness. Poor, poor sausage. When you don’t reply, he’ll flip the narc channel to rage. Bet on it. (If he can reach you again, which I hope he can’t).

    Vixen – he hasn’t changed, he doesn’t want to change. He’s just working on improving his game. Stay NC – you’ve been kicking ass at it so keep going!! And way to be mighty with getting on with your life!!

  • VixenChump, I went through this with satan…I only let him back in once…his behaviors only escalated…he became physically abusive and broke my bones…these people do not change! Do not believe anything he says or does. Just run the other way and save yourself.

    Leave him to his hollow existence and go be mighty 😀

  • He might be better with you (or not), but you will not be a better person with him. You do not need a “fixer-upper”–nor do your kids. You and your kids deserve to live in a home that works–no broken windows and no broken partner/parents. If you bought a house once and the roof fell in, the bank repossessed it, and you found yourself on the street, would you turn around and buy the same house again (same price as last time, but now the roof’s on the kitchen floor?)

    You are doing great with all the first steps–going no contact, refusing to jump at the bait he dangles, making a new life for yourself and the kids. Keep going!

    • That house metaphor is splendid. Vixenchump’s ex is asking her to buy the same house again and look! He’s put a tub of geraniums by the front door! Never mind the roof…and incidentally, if you get close, you’ll notice that geraniums smell bad.

  • You know when CL says they show you who they are? That front door glass breaking thing is who he is!
    For the sake of your children don’t ever forget that. And stay No Contact. It allows you the best possible chance to see the truth.

    Also that guilt and shame? That’s his to deal with, not yours.
    When he says “I need to do what’s right.” That’s the only place I straight up 100% agree with him. We just differ on how he should do it. My plan includes leaving you alone to heal and paying proper child support. If he wants to fix himself let him do it the way anyone else would with a trained professional, not with you.

  • I’m glad the justice system deals with abusers more harshly than abusers expect us chumps to treat them.

    “I hereby sentence you to live with the guilt of who you are,” said no judge, ever.

    Be mighty, Vixenchump. No Contact is the way.

  • I don’t think you really need us for this one, Vixenchump. No contact is the only wise choice. You can’t help this guy, it’s not your responsibility, and it’s hard to imagine how it could benefit you or your family by opening a new dialogue with him. He appears to be poison for everyone close to him. Keep protecting yourself and your kids.

    I too can see why his new wife is sympathetic to you. You have a lot in common – you have both been victimized in precisely the same way by the same . . . person (I am trying not to curse today).

    If this guy “honestly” and “probably didn’t even realize” at times that having sex with other women during your marriage was treating you badly, there is something far more wrong with him than just being a serial cheater. I would not only recommend that you stay no-contact, but that you add bars to the glass in your door.

    I love the line to the current wife that “you make me a better person.” Well, apparently not. He cheated on her too. If she truly makes him a better person I hope she throws herself on top of the grenade and stays with him. We don’t need a worse version of him running around loose (of course, I’m kidding. She should run like her hair is on fire).

    If you feel a response to your EX is in order, please let me write him back for you. I will first need to locate my dictionary – I never can remember how many “c” ‘s there are in the word “cocksucker.”

  • 19 other women who were willing to have sex with a married man. I’m sure those 19 women were out having sex with men much like your husband. Now multiply all that…… that’s like the billion dollar Powerball of STD’S. THAT alone should make you stay NO CONTACT.
    STD’S show up years later…… like decades later.
    We all are at risk for that. Just taking your health….the health of you unborn child….you were 7 months pregnant at the time of discovery….those risks he took with your lives is enough to walk away and divorce him.

  • It’s a game with him. He’s low on supply, bored and he feels you’re an easy target. My favorite line he used regarding being abusive is “he didn’t realize he was doing it at the time,to be honest,”
    He didn’t realize it..? “to be honest” yeah, right..,
    You already know he’s dishonest and manipulative.
    He says “you make him a better person”
    another line of BS, he needs to be a better person on his own, with someone else.

    Your doing well, don’t allow him to waste any more of your time.

  • Vixenchump – wow you are mighty. You are doing great!

    Your EX demonstrates zero personal responsibility and zero capacity for empathy. Forget trying to figure out his f*ckedup-ness and stay the course.

  • Vixenchump, the sad sausage act is just a way to Hoover you back into his orbit. And if you do take him back, it will be with the understanding on his part that his behavior is not a deal breaker. It will be a free pass and license to keep cheating. No consequences. The correct answer is No. And nothing says No more clearly than no response whatsoever.

    You can do this.

  • Right on, UBT!
    Especially on the “you say what she says” bit, & even better: he didn’t *realize* what he was doing. All mistakes, by-cracky!

    Every Chump should read this article then immediately follow it up with yesterday’s Sex Diaries/Sugar Baby entry. Mr. Day-Trader’s egolicious tale of fooling wifey & living on the edge of getting caught ? <—-THIS is the reality.
    Not only fully realizing the betrayal, but getting off on THAT, as much (if not more so) than Cotton Candy pussy.
    But guaranteed, once this guy's wifey catches on, he'll be spewing the same sad Unicorn 'Mistake' bullshit word-for-word. Guaranteed!.

    If only, pre-Dday, all our cheaters had written their truths out so matter of fact/black & white, for us to whip out & read aloud in contrast every.frickin.time they fire up the Mistake-Mobile.

    "You make me a better man".
    Not while he was with you, mind you. But by leaving him. So keep making him better & better. Stay Gone.

    • “You make me a better man”.
      “Not while he was with you, mind you. But by leaving him. So keep making him better & better. Stay Gone.”

      Exactly.

    • <Every Chump should read this article then immediately follow it up with yesterday’s Sex Diaries/Sugar Baby entry. Mr. Day-Trader’s egolicious tale of fooling wifey & living on the edge of getting caught ?

      Oh gosh, yes! They enjoy the hell out of it! They thrill to the joy of making a total effing fool of their gullible partners.

      And then when caught, it’s all “Sorry (not not sorry!) and “Didn’t MEAN to!”

  • Please take it from the chump whose cake-eater husband smashed the front door in with a splitting maul. I got a restraining order, then withdrew it because I couldn’t stand the thought of losing him forever. Truth is, I never had him in the first place. Let go of the dream that someday his heart will change. It never, ever will. This is sociopathic behavior and cannot be rehabilitated. “The first time someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE THEM.” – Maya Angelou.

    • YES!!! This chumptastic! “Never had him in the first place”. It took me a long time to realize that during our 23 years together he was no more committed to me than a regular person is committed to someone after a few dates. That’s the level of their ability to bond.

  • I like how his letter is chock full of all of the specific things he is actively engaged in and planning on doing to become a better person and make amends.

    Oh, wait a second… like every other cheating a-hole, he conveniently left all of that stuff out. Probably because none of it actually exists (just like his integrity and remorse!)…

    • Very good and practical point. His old divorce paper makes him think that both wives thought he was bad, and he hurts them. No: “I abused you and I know that now because I have been going to a therapist to sort out why I am a peice of shit. I would like to apologize for breaking your door and I should pay for the repairs, let me know what I owe. Also, I’m sorry for contacting you, I will desist if you don’t respond, I shouldn’t have broken that boundary. If you would like to see a counsellor together to discuss co parenting or wether we can work on restoring our relationship, let me know your availability and a preferred therapist and I will set some dates.” Nope. Nothing remotely accountable.

  • CL applies the Ubt and understands what his words are really saying: “People SAY I’m abusive. I don’t think I am. I didn’t write, ‘Iabused you both,’ I wrote that you ‘say’ the same things.” Here we have the typical slippery move away from the direct statement of responsibility to the response of the injured party. It’s the same move as “I’m sorry if you were offended,” without ever detailing what the speaker did to offend. It’s worth noting that the rest of the cheater’s “remorse” statement makes no acknowledge of any specific wrong doing or any of the damagle done to the women involved, including Vixenchump, left to raise 2 kids on her own after 19 APs and a busted door. Always look also at what they don’t say, rather than falling for their weasel-speak.

    • Yep. Disordered cheaters specialize in vague, blame-deflecting apologies that really say absolutely nothing. The closes thing to an apology I ever got from my ex was a text, “I am sorry for things.”

    • Agree!
      What’s more, always look at what they do, rather than what they say.

      But oh there’s a treasure trove of dark comedy in what they say. How I laughed uproariously at this gem when he justifies his abusive behaviour:

      “At times I probably didn’t even realise it, to be honest.”

      Take a moment to waft away the obfuscation smoke from this one, and what do you have left? “Layers and layers of bald-faced lies come totally naturally to me. I can’t stop. I won’t stop.”

  • Vixenchump, please don’t believe him for a second. I also took the cab ride from the Unicorn Taxi Service to Crazy Town. After the first D-Day, is was “I’m so sorry”, and “I don’t deserve you”, etc. Then the second, verifiable D-Day arrived six months later, and it was pretty craptacular. I started lining up my exit strategy soon after. He was covert in his behavior and didn’t physically harm or threaten me. However, disordered people become unpredictable and potentially dangerous when they realize that they will be outed and their main kibble supply is about to make a break for it. I urge you to keep safe, stay away, and continue the No Contact. Seriously. Hugs!

  • OMG, this was my narc cheater’s last attempt, too! NOW he realized how wrong he had been (very vague on exactly what he’d done wrong), NOW he was a changed man (after, oh, 8, maybe 10 individual therapy sessions over a year), NOW he deserved another chance, is actually ENTITLED to it, and how could the kids and I be so self-righteous and harsh, not to give him one!

    Facts are, he NEVER showed ANY interest in changing, was totally FINE with how he was, as long as it was only other people he was hurting; his previous 10 year girlfriend, me, our children, his mother ….. Then when things HE didn’t like started happening (I wouldn’t let him come back, the kids were so disgusted by him that they cut their contact with him way down) did the light dawn on him.

    AND, he keeps showing us that he hasn’t changed. Maybe, just maybe he won’t cheat again (because he didn’t like the consequences that hit HIM), but he is still entitled, selfish, arrogant, angry. He still lies and treats people badly.

    This is the likely outcome for these empathy-impaired assholes. It’s just another level of manipulation.

    And frankly, even if it weren’t, why would it be MY job to be beside him through this process of becoming a better person? I was beside him through the first affair, through the threats of violence, through the 12 jobs in 15 years, through everything HE needed support with. I got NO reciprocation. And even now there’s no discussion of ‘let me make it up to you and the kids’, no, it’s just ‘I’ve changed, now you have to be good to me again!’. Nope.

    • “AND, he keeps showing us that he hasn’t changed – he is still entitled, selfish, arrogant, angry. He still lies and treats people badly.”

      KarenE, this is my situation exactly! Divorced after 27 years. Older kids are NC but he has limited visitation with our 16-year old son. Every OFW email I get is rude, demeaning, accusing and un-cooperative. He texts our son things like “your mom lies! She cancels my visitations. I’m going back to court to change the custody order and get you more often.”

      Of course, I haven’t lied or cancelled anything. X didn’t show up! Now our son is terrified, despite all my reassurances. How do you reach Meh when you still hate and fear your X?

      • Document, document, document.

        This will help you of course, if he really does go back to court (doubtful, they always say this shit, and rarely follow thru) but it will also help your son see the pattern, and learn to compare words to actions.

      • Eve, do you know what it is your son is terrified of? Is it having a custody battle over him? At 16, surely his views and wishes will be taken into consideration (my friend was an advocate for children in family court – his submission was always very influential). Is it fear that he can’t be sure which parent is the sane, dependable, truthful one? You can only keep on showing him it is you. Is it the fear of being the hypotenuse to his parents hostility? You need to re-assure him that it’s only his father that is trying to make him the hypotenuse.

        At the very least, you need to keep your eye on the long picture. You have only 2 more years of putting up with this crap from the ex, then no more power plays over custody.

        Wishing you strength x

        • My son is terrified because his hard-won but still shaky sense of security has been threatened. He was so relieved in September when I got sole custody and he only has court-ordered visitation with his father on 1st, 3rd and 5th Sundays for 4 hours. He’s just a kid – he didn’t even know custody and visitation could be modified.

          I should add that our case involves domestic violence and a current Protective Order. Do I think Asshole X will actually file a motion to modify? Not really. But to put that possibility into our son’s mind so that he worries about it for the next 14 months is unconscionable.

          My son is old enough to be well aware that his father is an entitled, angry jerk. As are his older sister and brother. I can do my best to support them all but it leaves me far from Meh. I appreciate the good wishes because I really don’t feel like I’m travelling very far down the path of recovery. 27 years of marriage and X’s only goal in life now is to hurt me? Hello, crippling anxiety, my old friend.

          • Eve–if your son wants to continue to see his father, that complicates things a little, but (a) no sane judge is going to amend visitation without a strong reason; and (b) your son can put the stop to visitation any time he wants, even in court, because of his age.

      • Precious Eve,

        Since you are in this situation, PLEASE check out ‘High Conflict Institute’. Mr William ‘Bill’ Eddy is both a lawyer and a licensed therapist/counselor. He has developed a number of programs & resources that are used in some Family Courts. He is known internationally for his superior work helping families dealing with divorce when one or both parties are high conflict (aka Narcissists & so on. One of his books in listed in CL’s recommended reading list)

        He also has a couple of other books that are VERY helpful in dealing with these wingnuts—-“BIFF” and “It’s All Your Fault!”

        {{{{HUGS!!! to you & your son}}}} and ForgeOn!

  • Yes, in the movies, zombies eat brains. Do you want to have your brains eaten?? If not, I suggest you git along little doggie.

  • Wait a second, if you made him such a “better” person, why was he fucking 19 other women? Please don’t fall for this shit.

  • Do not confuse a cheater’s recognition of their personal inadequacies as willingness to change them. My ex knows he’s a giant steaming turd, but the pain of changing his behavior is greater than the reward of continuing to stink up the neighborhood.

    • Ex told our daughter in one of the few face to face meetings he had with her post -Day: “I know I’m a horrible person, I think about it every day”…..while he continued to do exactly what he had been doing, and persists till this day, 4 years later. He has lost a relationship with each of our three amazing kids and truly does not care. What he thinks about, every day, incessantly, is what he thought about every day for the 25 years of our marriage: HiMSELF.

  • Thank you so much for the support. The time you have taken to write the comments . its really appreciated. I’m feeling all mighty again. Thank you and much love to you all. Especially CL. This site has kept me No Contact sofar and long may it continue.

    • Hi Vixenchump, I just wanted to say to watch how your ex’s self pity and charm will turn back to rage and attack if you stay no contact with this message. My ex also swore he needed me to help him, swore he was a changed man etc, but I thought I’d give him the chance to show his true colours by refusing reconciliation and true to form, rage kicked in and he showed that he’s exactly the same as he always was. If he had truly changed then he would have respected my decision and remained civil for the sake of our child but his behaviour has of course been disgusting. I’ll take a bet your ex will also revert to rage and attack once he knows you aren’t falling for his BS. Stay strong!

  • My ex used the same nonsense about not wanting to be “that kind of person” when he approached me for bogus reconciliation. Said he had watched that Christian movie “Fireproof” and he didn’t want to be like the cheating doctor in the film. Well, as it turned out, he really just wanted someone to pay the bills and remove the need for him to pay child support. Never underestimate the power of $$$$ when you wonder why cheaters want to “come back” to you.

    Once the divorce was final, not only did my ex stop saying he had done anything wrong ever, he changed his tune to twisting it all into my fault. Disordered always do that. Don’t pay any attention to the words coming out of their mouths, because they have less substance than a fart in the wind.

  • Vixenchump: Is he guilty? Maybe, in the way that sometimes shitty people repress a deep sense of shame. But for a guy carrying on affairs with that many women? My guess is no, he doesn’t feel guilty. Does he really want to change? Probably not, or he at least isn’t willing to put in the effort.

    But okay, maybe he does really want to change. If that’s true, great. But who cares? Not you, apart from making sure that your children are safe and secure. Because really, envision a future of a marriage with “changed” him—my guess is that your sense of security is gone for good. What’s going to go through your head every single time he doesn’t answer his phone? When you can’t get ahold of him? If he seems secretive about his email? If he goes on a business trip? If he goes to the grocery store and takes a long time? If you see an unknown number call his phone? If he smells different? If he loses his temper? Your ship has sailed—you and your children don’t need that kind of insecurity and abuse in your life. And your kids don’t need to see their mighty mom putting up with it. That’s not the example you want to set for them. Embrace what CL says in other posts—even if he does change, what’s it to you? That doesn’t change one single thing that he did to you, so he sealed his own fate with that one.

    I suppose I should be thankful that my stbx didn’t try to give me the “mistake” speech. I did get the “I didn’t plan it, it just happened” speech, but it wasn’t a mistake. On the contrary—he spent a few days with OW and decided he was in love with her, not me, and that was it. Kept the lie going for a couple months and then sent me a Dear Jane email.

    The other chumps are right—clearly, you don’t make him a better man. Probably no one can, with the possible exception of a psychotherapist and I’m pretty skeptical of even that possibility.

    • Oh stbxisgross – Ended it with you by email? (So did ‘The Great I Am’ actually – hadn’t the balls to come do it face to face) – I’m so sorry. It’s that level of disrespect that tortures you, isn’t it? Tortured me, anyway.

      Bytheway ‘I didn’t plan it, it just happened’ is just another version of ‘I made a mistake’. The ‘I’m only human, with flaws – things just happened beyond my control’. Same refusal to take responsibility.

      And no, I don’t think a psychotherapist stands any chance of getting these creeps to change or become better. They know what is and isn’t expected / acceptable in any relationship – they don’t need a professional to shine the light for them.

      A full lobotomy? … now that might just work.

      • Yes, by email! He was working overseas, but we always video-chatted multiple times a day. The farewell came by email because he’s weak chicken shit and can’t face conflict or issues in intimate relationships in any way. The disrespect evident in the email does torture me. What tortures me most though is that he was one who was perfectly happy until he wasn’t, and then he just made a unilateral decision. It’s the refusal to even try that tortures me the most.

        You’re right about the “It just happened”—I think the main difference in my mind is that there’s no (fake) remorse. But the failure to take responsibility is so infuriating—I remember demanding when talking to him after his email that he had agency and to have some accountability. Deaf ears.

        • ‘It was a mistake’ – is fake remorse (no remorse). And ‘The Great I Am’ was NEVER unhappy – even during his affair (‘love you, for me there could be no other woman but you, with you I feel like I won the lottery, I’ve never been so happy) – during D Day devastation – (‘It meant nothing! It wasn’t about you. I never stopped loving you’) and during wreckonciliation (I just want to prove I’ve changed, I just want a second chance to prove I love you, I just want what we had back again). Then ended it by email … ‘the names you called me on D Day show me you never loved me’!

          Deaf ears – yeah, I can believe it. He’s a weak chicken shit, too cowardly to be able to even look in the mirror you hold up to him.

          Stay strong – he was not worthy of you, as ‘The Great I Am’ was not worthy of me.

  • mis·take /məˈstāk/
    noun
    1. an action or judgment that is misguided or wrong: “Coming here was a mistake.”
    synonyms: Error, fault, inaccuracy, omission, slip, blunder, miscalculation, misunderstanding, oversight, misinterpretation, gaffe, faux pas, solecism

    verb
    1. be wrong about: “Because I was inexperienced, I mistook the nature of our relationship.”
    synonyms: Misunderstand, misinterpret, get wrong, misconstrue, misread

    I got the same damn cheater “I just made a mistake!” sob story. Having been involuntarily drafted into Chump Boot Camp, I had learned enough through ChumpLady that I could shut that cheater word-salad shit down immediately. The cheating piece-of-shit assholes are NOT entitled to their own version of facts.

    Cheating is NOT a mere “mistake” as my cheater wife put it (page 14 paragraph 1 in the cheater script). She DELIBERATELY explored facebook fuckbuddy clubs. She DELIBERATELY created new email addresses. She DELIBERATELY created “fake” facebook fuckbuddy profiles. She DELIBERATELY participated in BDSM fuckbuddy sessions. She DELIBERATELY removed herself from her own family to immerse herself into her BDSM facebook fuckbuddy world. She DELIBERATELY hid her activities from me and our children.

  • Oh, you thought they meant that cheating on you was a mistake? You’ve been interpreting it all wrong. What they’re saying is they made a mistake and got caught. That won’t ever happen again! Or if it does, well, it was just another mistake.

    In the same vein, when they tell you ‘it just happened,’ they’re honestly communicating that their genitals have free reign over their thought process. You can’t expect someone with impaired genitals to stay faithful. They had no control! Alas, nobody was there to tie them to a mast and take the kibbles in their stead.

    • Right no mistake and not sorry. The mistake and sorry was he got caught. The ex Asswipe thought he could stay married and have the side dish too. Whore juice thought otherwise and made him choose. After just a few weeks they were truly in lub. Great way to start a life together fucking cheating liars both of them. He already admitted they don’t trust each other. Haha. They deserve each other. They get along great, so did we for thirty years, just new and different. I would have never fucked him or any one else over like this. He’s cheated on her numerous times and while he’s back for the second time with whore juice has cheated again and again. That’s who he is. Best lover, ruins women and damn proud if it. Tells me I’ll never find another lover like him he’s the best and I will remember that. Ah no, last thing I will remember about him and I said I will tell anyone who asks that you sucked in bed and I may find better, someone who is honest and not a cheater or liar. Whore juice can have his sorry ass he just ain’t all that. Fucker.

      • Best lover, Kar? Haha! So when you tell him to go f*ck himself he should look forward to it.
        A good lover is more than sex, it’s kindness & warmth. You could find better at the morgue.

        • With his cold eyes and black heart, no empathy, feelings or emotions except for rage and anger you are right chumpty. I used to get that to a degree til he found whore juice then the big blue meanie stepped in. He is incapable of loving anyone including himself. He can go fuck himself.

          • Black heart. Exactly the words I used to describe by cheater ex . The day he said ‘at least I don’t kill people’, referring to our mutual decision to terminate our last pregnancy due to high risk to me, I knew I was done done done with any thought of a civil relationship post divorce.
            The dead eyes were there too. The first real hint something was up years before Dday.
            Just a cold, black soul who systematically found a way to blame me for every damned thing he ever did wrong.
            Hugs Kar, I know exactly how it feels to watch the love of your life turn into the walking dead.
            I guess most of us here do.

  • It’s a pity play.

    Best bit in Martha Stout’s “The Sociopath Next Door” was the description of how they suck us in”

    “If, instead, you find yourself often pitying someone who consistently hurts you or other people, and who actively campaigns for your sympathy, the chances are close to 100 percent that you are dealing with a sociopath.”

    “Rather, the best clue is, of all things, the pity play. The most reliable sign, the most universal behavior of unscrupulous people is not directed, as one might imagine, at our fearfulness. It is, perversely, an appeal to our sympathy. ”

    • When I read these lines in Stout’s book, that’s when I realized I was married to a sociopath. I shuddered.

      • I know. I was in disbelief but I can describe his pity play for you word by word and gesture by gesture. It was quite an eye opener.

    • i think people assume a sociopath is someone like Bundy or Ridgeway. they are on the extreme ends of the spectrum. But, extreme sociopaths and moderate ones share core features and problems. Their thinking is the same, how far they’re willing to go to get it is the only practical difference.

  • Merriam Webster defines jaded, in part, as: made dull, apathetic, or cynical by experience or by surfeit (meaning by things of which you have far too much.)

    ChumpLady, I have thought of asking you to write about this word. Chumpers seem to use it as a way to make Chumps feel like their perspectives are incorrect, that they are just too oversensitive to see clearly. But the very definition of the word expresses the exhaustion of drowning in bullshit.

    Jadedness is based in experience, not is inaccuracy. They just don’t want us to realize that we are spot on.

  • Save yourself, don’t reply. These guys (women, too) count on your good heart to do what they do. CL’s “Who misses the lie of who she thought he was,” hits home. You want to believe there is some part of him that was real, that what you had wasn’t a lie. It’s painful. You’ve already gone thru the worst of it and rocked. One of those ‘I’m glad I did it, but I don’t ever want to do it again.’ Don’t get sucked in.

    The ‘to be honest’ line is hilarious. X ended his sentences with that line constantly. That, and ‘if you want to know the truth.’ I’d overhear business calls with “blah, blah, blah, I’ve been in this business for over 20 yrs., to be perfectly honest with you.” 3. He’d been in the biz for 3 yrs.

    You won’t get truth or honestly from him, ever. Move on and don’t look back.

  • On another note: I’m playing catch-up, and can’t find anything on where to donate to Cut&Run. Did Tempest ever get the OK to proceed?

      • Thank you, Jayne. I’m bummed. Reading all of the comments to right that wrong was so touching, and tho she couldn’t accept she knows for sure someone has her back. This group, CN, is amazing.

    • Chumpish:
      CutNRun felt unable to accept our offers to send her children to Disney right now. However, there is another deserving case of CN’s big heart: Irish has 4 children, with a deadbeat X who doesn’t pay child support. I’ll post her mighty story in a day or two, but Irish could use some help with the copay for some much-needed heart tests/procedures. We’re just trying to get a paypal account up and running first.

        • Thanks, Beverly! I’ll post two messages in the daily column (once on the CutNRun thread) & steer people to the Private:General forums for details). I should be able to get Irish’s info by Monday.

  • Wowza. Ok, so the devil on your shoulders says “do talk to him” and the Bazillion chump nation angels are giving hard hitting relevant reasons to NOT talk to him. That shoulder is probably a little crowded but I like it.

  • So, he smashes the glass in your door during one of his rages, and then tells you some months later that you make him a better person?

    If this is his behavior when he’s “better,” then I hesitate to think of what he’d be like if he was worse!

    No Contact, and protection order.

  • And now that I think about it, why exactly was he reading the old divorce papers? Was he, perchance, boning up on what sorts of questions to expect from the lawyers this time around; was he trying to remember which goodies he forgot to grab last time; was he planning to file first?

    Note also that he didn’t learn anything that he needs to. He reread what “her side of” the court statement said, but he still cannot wrap his mind around the fact that he’s been the liar in the relationships. He’s the one who cheats and mistreats, but he still implies that “his side of it” some how has value.

    Healthy people reread their old love letters or similar documents for inspiration on how to revitalize their relationship, not old court statements.

    • I’d bet the farm he was just trying to decide which wife he should try to get to take him back. Which piece of his property would be easier to reclaim. It wasn’t nostalgia; it was a cost-benefit analysis.

        • WIN THIS PRIZE! I think letting the first responder win wouldn’t do it for him. Maybe he’ll hold auditions or play one off the other for the leading role. Whoever doesn’t win can join the chorus of 19 bit players.

  • Yes❗️After 18 times of whoring around he noticed that you are the one! POS he maybe doesn’t want to keep paying child support. He is so F@& ? That he does not have money to be the “ladies man” that he used to be. Please you have done a big step that I am still afraid to do . You have done the most difficult part and you did good! Do not give up and if possible talk with a family member who can deliver the kids so you do not have to see is face. You are awesome!

  • There is also the possibility that this CheaterPants doesn’t like to ‘lose’…. and sucking you back in is an attempt to ‘win’. Hold your ground and let him wallow in the mess of his own making. He will never change.

  • Hi Eilonwy,

    The court papers were recent civil case papers , not for his divorce but for his contact of his other son . He takes her to court very often 2-3 times a year to try and increase his contact.

    He is applying again, as he did not get what he wanted (his own way) in December.

  • This really hit home:

    “He is tapping into your deep well of decency and chumpiness. The part of you that believes in redemption and second (or 15th) chances. Who thinks she has superpowers of love to change people. Who is afraid to be a single mom and falter. Who misses the lie of who she thought he was.”

    Chump Lady hit the nail on the head, again. Yep. Stay strong. Stay Mighty. And definitely stay “No Contact”.

  • I used to get notes like that from my now ex now and again. Something in me *lit up* every time I got one. I was drawn in by his suffering, and sure that I could fix whatever it was that was wrong with him. Cue violin music and teary forgiveness. I would make him whole again. My heart had a major boner for this romantic nonsense.

    It took me a while to realize that my heart was a fucking idiot, and that he would never change. It was up to me to change and save myself. So long, Heart: There’s a new sheriff in town. Say hello to Brain.

    It’s not that I don’t believe in love — I just no longer believe in letting my stupid heart be the CEO of my life.

    • “I used to get notes like that from my now ex now and again. Something in me *lit up* every time I got one. I was drawn in by his suffering, and sure that I could fix whatever it was that was wrong with him. Cue violin music and teary forgiveness. I would make him whole again. My heart had a major boner for this romantic nonsense.”

      So much hard-won wisdom and self-reflection, right there.

      Thanks, LilyBart. You have just helped me recognise the hook that made me so easy to reel in, so often.

      • I got one, years later. I was the only one for him and he missed me so much and yada, yada, yada. After destroying my life, stripping me of most of what I owned and taking the house I built to give to his much younger, thinner and prettier replacement device. I did not respond. That is the correct response, which is no response. If that fucker wanted me, well, he had me for 16 years. That was all the chance he was going to get. I wasn’t going to audition to get my home back and I surely didn’t want him.

  • Wow. He talk only about himself here. Not one word about you, except what you can do for him: i.e., it will be your responsibility to make him a better person. Everything is about him EXCEPT taking responsibility for his own actions.

    Run run run from that burning house.

  • Vixen, your ex is like mine. Here’s a visual: Your ex is like a turd that won’t flush. Keeps coming back. Finally, down it goes. (Whew) And now you seriously want to go down the bowels of the sewer, retrieve the turd and think he’s turned into a diamond? Not likely.

  • Vixen, I’ll try not to repeat what so many have said above, I second it all.

    Shortly after D-Day, a close friend’s husband told me two things I wrote down and put on notes where I would see them each day, and think of whenever I dealt with or made decisions about ex. The first was “what does he really want?” — as in ask myself what his real motivations are because he is a liar and a fraud and there is always an ulterior motive.

    The second thing he told me is that “from now on it’s just business.” So when dealing with your ex, in negotiations, and regarding decisions about the kids or support or alimony, it’s all business to you now. He’s not family, he’s not someone you trust or are friends with. You just make sure you are a hard nosed businesswoman and protect yourself and your kids financially in the divorce.

    Vixen, he is unredeemable. Dump the dead weight (actually you already did, so keep him dumped).

  • “He is unredeemable.” So true. Cheaters will never be capable of giving you joy, reciprocosity, your dream, truth is he WILL always MOVE AWAY from that every second, every minute, every hour you are with him, THAT is who he is. These people are NOT wired like us, why aspire to dreams that will never come true? My ex was great at giving me all the stuff, but it meant nothing to me when the man I shared it with was incapable of bonding and truly appreciating what he had. Like that idiot yesterday, Mr. Tuesday….

    • “My ex was great at giving me all the stuff, but it meant nothing to me when the man I shared it with was incapable of bonding and truly appreciating what he had. Like that idiot yesterday, Mr. Tuesday….”

      Yes, exactly. We can never understand, hurts my head to even try.

  • I’ve dated three loser’s so far. Before my husband, there was John. John was by far the best looking guy I dated and he would break up with me when he was drunk. You see, the girl that dumped him at the alter had the same name as me so when he was drunk, he took his anger out on me.

    I took him back five or six times. The last week we dated, he left me at a club on my birthday because HE wanted to leave. A week before leaving me alone in a club with no ride home, he got my birthday wrong and bought me a paper rose that was still in the CVS drugstore bag. Handed me a $1 rose in a plastic bag. Yep, I forgave that and let him, ” make it up to me by taking me out somewhere fun on my actual birthday.

    Pathetic much…..

    So, after he leaves me to call a cab and get a ride home, the straw breaks. I’m done this time and I know it. The next day, HE knows it. He comes over banging on my door- please can he at least come in and get his softball pants. Ok…… After sad face apology and realizing this time I mean business, he punches the top of the headboard of my bed. I’m done forever and just want him out. It took me two years but already at MEH after my birthday week.

    Once he realized he could no longer manipulate me into taking him back, he was all over the place. Between the “sorries”, then the anger, then excuses, then crying, then gifts, then blaming me, blaming my sister, blaming our trip to Florida one year, then he needed to get a parking pass out of my car…… He had never been in this situation and he was going nuts that he could not real me back in.

    He called me for two years telling me how great I was…….

    I finally met my husband and he called me until after the both of us got married to others….. Tried to friend me on Facebook.

    It was never about me or how much I meant to him. It was always about him and shocked that he finally was shut out. I can still see the looks of confusion on his face because I had forgiven him on countless inconsiderate actions 100 times. He wanted cake.

    I went on to marry a cheater in my next relationship but I honestly thing I would have done worse with someone who acted as crazy as he did. As soon as he cracked my headboard with his fist, was the nail in the coffin.

    No contact, no contact, no contact. It works. Stay strong and mighty, you will not regret it. He is an asshole and be glad you are rid of him. Be prepared for further contact from him using every trick in the book to engage a response. Just keep swatting the fly away.

    Best of kuck!!

  • This cheater has no concept of you or what you are going through. His letter is 100% about him, which is pretty impressive seeing how he has completely shirked responsibility.
    the entire length.. not a passing thought about accountability and the pain and suffering he has caused.

    This reminds me of another chump who was being treated for her NOW cancer related HPV. Her soon to be ex husband called her hysterically crying when he heard the news of the pre cancerous cells progressing to the next stage and the treatments she was going to start initiating.

    Why was he crying? “Please don’t die!”, he sobbed. “The kids will never forgive me!”

    • No they do not understand the hurt and pain they inflict and when my kid called him on his bullshit he told her good things to make himself appear the good guy. What he says and what he does are two different thing. Lip service and then nothing done. Yes the kids see how he continues to screw mom over and he’s pissed they won’t jump on his side. Does he want emotionally healthy kids or douchebags like himself? I think he wants douchebag kids to carry on his legacy. He is a fucking douchebag!!

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