About a year after my divorce from the cheater, I was driving past my old house. (Not an uncommon occurrence as it was on a main thoroughfare…) And I saw a young-ish woman working in my former garden, planting flowers and pulling weeds. It was a beautiful sunny day and I looked in the driveway — and didn’t see his car.
There she was — the new chump.
Doing the yard work, investing herself in this Grand Home of Potential, getting muddy — and he was absent.
I knew the scenario very, very well. I had been that weed-pulling, chump laborer myself once. He’s “at work” and she’s there believing everything is fine in her world. Hostas or day lilies? Annuals or perennials?
I felt a desperate urge to pull the car over and shake her.
RUN LITTLE FLOWER GIRL! RUN!!!
Tell her that he’s been divorced at least three times for being a serial cheater. That he has a double life that spans decades. That he’s abusive. That’s he’s a gun nut, and check the wheel hub of his BMW for that hand gun. That he’s got a long-term OW and here is her name and number.
But I didn’t do it. I kept driving.
Was I a coward or was I being sensible?
I knew I wouldn’t be believed. He’d gotten to the narrative first. I’d be the crazy ex-wife. (Maybe I’d lead with that. I’d played this scenario out in my head many times, “I know you’re going to think I’m the Crazy Ex-Wife, but I think you should know something…”) Explaining my sudden departure, he had already told my former neighbors that I cheated on him. (He told me the same story about his ex-wives — they cheated on him. The one I spoke to thought that was hysterical.)
But I had proof! Should I give her the hundreds of emails I saved, and my lawyer’s number, and the Other Woman’s number?
I didn’t do it. Because I weighed no contact with him over warning her.
That might be the right answer, but I’m not sure. A bunch of you aren’t sure either, because I get the same sort of question — Should I warn the new one?
I’m still on the side of no contact and practicing meh. You can’t save everyone — and that impulse I had to yell RUN! FLOWER GIRL RUN! I channel into this blog every day. Maybe I can save a few other chumps. On the other hand, not telling the next one also goes against my golden rule about telling in general — wouldn’t YOU want to know if you were being chumped?
Unless this person is a pedophile or has some other sort of criminal record, I’d probably leave it alone. You don’t know if your ex is currently cheating on them. (Or maybe you do?) And you have a vested interest to protect your own sanity and maintain no contact. Also, if you have kids together you don’t want to do anything that could be construed as harassment toward your ex.
And finally — this person is your EX. Would you want your ex to talk to whomever YOU are dating and “warn” them? How is anyone to know who is really a batshit crazy, character assassinating wing nut and who is telling the truth? They don’t (unless you present them with proof). So they’re going to weigh on the side of Sparkles McGee.
I drove past the Flower Girl. But I still wonder about her. I hope she got out okay.
I think you did the right thing. It was sensible. She would not believe you anyway. No need to stir that pot with the ex.
(Could someone read this and give me their opinion, please!!!)Hi Anita I don’t think it’s about being sensible, I think it’s about doing the right thing. Even if the poor little flower girl did not at first believe, at least you have sown the seed of doubt. I hate injustice and would have loved for someone to confirm that my instincts were right about my ex. Here is my story on today’s subject: I had installed a phone conversation recorder on ex’s cell. I heard that he and a friend were heading to some slut’s house to have a fun jacuzzi party with her friends. My ex had no luck since his slut was too drunk and coked up to do anything other than puke while his friend got lucky in the other room. I felt his wife needed to know this. Just for the record his wife was a real bitch and did not like me but I still felt she needed to know. So since we were not on speaking terms, I got a fake number and texted her the salacious details. A year went by and I heard their marriage was on the rocks, he told my ex they are living separate lives, they don’t engage in sex, she was so angry at him that she unleashed her wrath on him. He is currently considering divorcing her because of the tension at home. However, when the tables were turned and I called her last year (out of desperation) after my ex and her husband went out because I wanted to verify the time they came back home, since something was fishy, BUT she totally shut me down. She said she “didn’t want to be involved in drama”!!! She never gave me an answer and on top of it all she ratted me out and told her husband, who then told my ex!!! My ex said I looked crazy and paranoid for having asked her… I was sooooo crestfallen and hurt. This was one of my lowest point. I pleaded and asked him “what were you doing on your birthday night out”…and he blurted out “I have to stop fucking lil bitches”!!! I was like “HA then you admit to it”, But sadly noooo, he shrugged it off and said he “did not mean that and not to take it as a fact”!!! I m actually not with him anymore because of how I suffered. Can someone analyze this situation and give me a third party opinion because I could not wrap my head around such things. Yes I am naive and I was soo in love with this person and could not fanthom how some one could do me so wrong if they loved me???
FBI, given the circumstances that this involves an ex, and the new gf has not solicited info from me, I stand by my comment and wouldn’t contact her. The info is out there that he’s a cheater, so I imagine she would already have her doubts. The important thing is that the info is public knowledge, available, etc.
First, understanding the disordered is near impossibe ( well, maybe you can understand them, but you need to completely disregard normal logic and values.).
Simplest way to understand , IMO, is to just accept that there are monsters among
us who wear masks during courtship.
As far as telling the young woman, it may be futile ,but I would give it a try. As this guy, gradually, reveals what he is, the seeds you have sown may expedite her fleeing.
If she ignores you jow, the seeds are still planted and you lose nothing.
A few thoughts:
1) The bit about the other Chump is not really part of your story. Some people don’t do drama. It sounds as if you two are not close and it does not sound as if she is a particularly warm and empathetic person. When we are hurting so much, we cast about for any nugget of humanity, honesty and caring. This woman is not really obligated to give that to you. If I were in her shoes, I would probably say something similar – I’m sorry you are upset but your really need to discuss this with your husband. I have no interest in getting the middle of marriage drama of a casual acquaintance. Sort of like if you need to ask, don’t you already have your answer.
2) Of course he lied to you about the birthday. He lies to you about everything. Classic Gaslighting is to say one thing one second, then deny it the next. I can never decide if they do it on purpose (like in the movie) or if their brains are just so disordered that they genuinely can’t process that they said something horrible/damaging/unkind/abusive 45 minutes ago and they stare at you blankly. Keep in mind these folks have no empathy so they don’t really process that there is a person actually responding to the things that they say. You wanting him to be accountable for saying something like “fucking lil bitches” is completely outside of his realm of understanding. Why would you have a response to things he said. You need to not be so sensitive. You know he’s cheating on you. What is there to discuss.
3) You seem really upset. I’m there with you sister. I’m neck deep in a fucked up situation myself. It’s hard. I think though, to people who are not so embedded in the utter chaos that is a relationship like this… we can get so mad/upset/worked up so fast that it makes us seem a little like a crazy person. Like day in day out I’m fine cracking jokes, doing my work, taking care of business and drinking with friends. But bring up the topic of my STBX and it becomes super obvious, super quickly that I am very emotional (I’m mostly mad) on the topic. When people don’t have all the history, it makes you seem like a crazy person to the average person who isn’t invested in the same way. I say this not to tell you to feel bad about being a fucking angry crazy person – cause yeah – these assholes will do it. But just remember that others around you view this stuff thru their own lens. I was posting on another board my thoughts and OW and you would have thought I suggested murdering puppies for saying that barring some very specific circumstances (i.e. complete lying by the Cheater), they have some culpability. It was like you could cherry pick thought the people who had been cheated on, and the people that were the cheaters trying to validate that nothing is black and white and blah blah blah.
Dump him, don’t make yourself crazy, don’t worry about anyone else (except your kids if needed) and live your best life.
Precisely. Well stated. Research the Cluster Bs , picking up fleas and fundamental attribution error.
Very insightful post.
So glad I found this post tonight and CAGal’s comment. I have been married for 23 years with 2 kids and kicked out my husband this week. I never heard the term gaslighting until this week when I looked up narcissism. Husband has cheated before but I never had actual proof and he would always talk his way out of it, turn it back on me, make me feel crazy, etc. I erred on the side of keeping family together and believing his apologies/explanations. I am a competent, sane, hard working and dependable person who raised my kids with half a husband and financially supported my household most of the time. I need to keep reminding myself of that because my confidence is shot. This time I found actual proof of his most recent affair. He took up with a single mother of two kids, told her he was divorced, took her and her kids on trips, spent money on them (which means I pay because he has very little income). I also have proof that the whole time during the relationship he was texting a (guy) friend the sexts and nude pics she would send him, and telling his friend that she is getting annoying because she is falling in love and that is not what he wants. Also have proof that at the same time he reached out to another previous affair victim. My kids are smart teenagers now and they are glad he is out but do I warn this new girlfriend? Do I show her these texts and emails? I am really trying not to turn into the bitter obsessed ex but it feels unkind not to warn her. Would sending her these things be construed as harassment?
FBI: First, the wife of your H’s cheating buddy is not your friend. Avoid her. She sounds like a disaster (but I applaud you for letting her know that her H is cheater, and your technique for doing so. You did the right thing, and she obviously acted on it. Well-done).
As for your H’s speech slip, Jayne (below) is right that this counts as a “Freudian slip.” Now, no one believes Freud’s explanations for Freudian slips anymore, but it is very clear that things we are thinking can intrude into our speech. Your X’s expostulation that he has “to stop fucking lil bitches!” is an indication that he did, indeed, fuck little bitches. That, coupled with his lack of empathy for your feelings, screams, GET OUT AND STAY OUT. I know this is hard, I know it requires tremendous effort to leave a multi-year relationship, I know the pain seems bottomless. But it’s not infinite.
If you have left him, you’ve taken the first step. Keep coming back here (and head to the forums) for support. I have a CL email if you want to say anything privately: [email protected]
Thank you tempest, ca gal and Arnold for your advice! I really need support because his gaslighting kept me in that relationship way too long. I thought that if you loved someone you shouldn’t keep the truth from them. This was not the case for him since he is a very selfish person. He didn’t care that his lies were hurting me. I had my suspicions and then gathered proof so now I know he is not the one for me and it’s ok!!! :)). I just go through the mental inventory of things he said and did in order to stick to my guns: no contact!
So therefore it does mean a lot that you affirm that his comment was indeed a Freudian slip….thank u again my cyber friends!
Oops cl sorry didn’t realize there was a forum!
I had a narc trying to pull me into his skein. I warned his wife and he blamed me. Of course she believes him. It was futile, would I take it back, no because he is on a very short leash now and is being watched. She is still playing marriage police and he is leaving me alone!
Refuses – good for you!
I think you did the right thing by not saying anything. Even if she listened to you she will think that it won’t happen to her. Because at this point he has painted you and the others as crazy and he is misunderstood, just wanting a good woman to love him. She feels special, important. And special, important people don’t get cheated on (well, until they do).
People hear what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe. She obviously has already bought his story. Nothing you could say will change that. Keep on driving.
Stayin Strong,
I agree that things generally go the way you describe. However, I was informed of my partner’ (now ex-boyfriend’s, not my STBX’s) cheating–and I listened and immediately left that ‘partner.’ I will be eternally grateful to the woman who told me that that partner was chronically cheating on me, searching for other sexual partners/girlfriends through want ads. Really wish that at least one of the many people who knew my husband (now STBX) was running around would have told me long before I found out through STBX’s admission. My life, my children’s lives, and many other people’s lives may have turned out much better.
Amen!
There is a very Big difference (although the hurt is the same?) of a 1 time remorseful cheater after 20+ years of monogomy to a serial cheater.both garbage! But looks like he Never had any true emotions invested in any of his relationships. Don’t waste your time in him or anything or anyone in His world! You did the right thing!!
There might be,Michelle. But my reading and many studies have shown that the overwhelming %of affairs go undetected, forever. So, if you know of one, most times there are others.
Same thing with “confessions”. Often, while appearing voluntary and motivated by guilt, they are often due to the cheater’s anticipation of impending discovery or being reported by a third party, like the other BS, or a friend or family member who has stumbled upon evidence.
I think I’d stay away just based on the fact that she would tattle to my ex, and then he’d be back in my life, sending me a poisonous email or attempting to ambush me on the phone. Now, if the new woman approached me and asked why we broke up, I wouldn’t have a problem talking to her, but I would never approach a new woman if my ex broke up with the Owife and found an innocent victim. Like the others said, she probably wouldn’t believe me anyway, so my effort would be wasted.
Yeah, I agree. Thought about warning my ex’s future clients (she’s a marriage therapist), but thought better of it. Not my monkeys.
Although your case may be a little different DM. She’s counseling people in a professional capacity. Unbelievable. It’s like a rapist/gynecologist scenario. I know you can’t actually warn people, you’d be seen as crazy and maybe accused of harassment, but maybe an anonymous online review on a website that reviews therapists. That woman should not be practicing.
I think an anonymous review would be appropriate. A cheater counseling married couples in trouble where one spouse may be cheating seems like a conflict of interest on her part. She can’t be impartial.
I’ve also seen studies and news articles that say that psychologists have higher than normal rates of suicide, depression, alcoholism and substance abuse. Not sure what that means, but I do think it is possible for a shrink to be a good, effective, skilled shrink even though the shrink has his or her own issues.
But yeah, I sure wouldn’t want a shrink or marriage counselor who was a cheater.
On the other hand, I’m pretty sure my marriage counselor didn’t seem like that type who’d cheat on his wife or experience mental problems, but he was quite neutral or excessively understanding to my wife’s infidelity. He was even a fan of Esther Perel. ick.
How about sending the evidence to her Review/Licensure Board?
This may be applicable only if she’s made some sort of ethical violation, such as taking advantage of her clients’ vulnerability in order to have sex with them.
Yeah, it isn’t an ethics violation as long as the therapist avoids banging a client of client family member/friend.
I didn’t reach out to the OW when they first got together- I figured she knew about me and didn’t care that he had been in a relationship. I did, however, contact her through FB (anonymously) about 2 years ago when douchebag was cheating on her. They have a child together (who was just a few months old at the time). I gave her details, she confirmed he was cheating. She stayed, so I’m done “reaching out”.
She is a chump like we were. He chose her for a reason. You know narcs like kind things too. We should not expect their new partners to run for the hills. What telling does is to plant a seed of doubt. But we all know that the cycle is such that they may not have started devaluation or if they have the new chump is rationalising. We see ourselves in the new chump but truth is most of us would not have run. Not because we did not believe the old chump but because we believe in second chances. If asked I would share otherwise I would not enter because we cannot make them see what we know. Experience was our teacher.
No, she’s not a chump like the rest of us; she’s an OW first & foremost. She got a heads’ up as to what an insidious sneaky lying dirtbag he could be and took a chance that her magic va-jay jay would keep him honest.
She went into it much more well informed than those of us who got hit with a 2×4 out of the blue.
Did I miss that she was the OW? IF THAT IS THE CASE, DO NOT BOTHER. I will re_ read, but I did not see that info.
You’re probably being sensible, I am still at a point where I want to blow up their lives. But that most likely isn’t the best course of action. If you had definitive proof he was cheating on her, and we all know he is, I would say DO IT, DO IT NOW! These fuckers don’t change, and any chance there is to hunt them I’m going to take it (with truth and proof being my weapons of choice for this particular hunt just do no one thinks I’m going more off the deep end than I already am)
I have often wondered about this. I have also thought about if EX broke up with OW and moved on to another sucker. Would I be more willing to accept the next woman because she didn’t actually help destroy my family. Her I might warn. But the original OW that he’s with that he cheated on me with? Nope. Besides I get more money for me and my daughter if they stay together.
Thank you CL for indirectly answering my letter. When I saw the title I thought it was mine, but I was glad to see that others have the same anxiety. I guess that´s what makes us chumps…we care about other people, especially if they may have to go through what we did and we can somehow prevent it.
I feel sorry for the lovely-new-girlfriend (who is not the OW) but I am hoping that she is great for my kids and serves as anger-management between their dad and them. I prefer a caring woman who has an interest in making my kids happy to an uncaring babysitter or leaving them alone when cheater-ex is responsible for them. When I meet her, I was thinking of saying something like (if we have a private moment) “if you ever feel that something is off in your relationship, you can talk to me about it because I know him more than anyone in the world after 20 years and two kids….” But if he she doesn´t contact me and he starts turning Jeckyl and Hyde on her and cheats, it is also what she has to live. She must be attracted to shiny guys because she is divorced from one, so maybe its the lesson she has to live.
And for some crazy synchronicity after I sent the letter to CL yesterday, I received an email from the OW saying she sends me blessings everyday and is sorry for the harm she caused my daughters and I (exactly two years after DDay). I think she is suffering because she was probably dumped by the cheater when he realized he could attract a younger, prettier, less experienced, unemployed woman without kids (great for narc control and absolute devotion from her).
Writing the letter to CL was therapeutical and receiving the OWs email, and CL´s answer today sent me back on the road to the land of Meh…Thank you!!
I get this question a LOT. Glad it was helpful! I think there is a difference between warning an OM/OW and warning an innocent chump. Still, if it’s an ex — stay out of their business, IMO. Curious what other people’s stories are.
Interesting distinction about warning the OW/OM vs. the next innocent chump to come along. I ended up indirectly doing just that when STBX started love bombing a friend of a friend (also a chump) who knew all of the ugly details of my story. She asked my permission to share and I gave it. The new woman was savvy enough to be wary of the love bombing and by the time my friend had the opportunity to share my story with her, she had already dubbed STBX a “crazy stalker.” Nonetheless, she was very grateful for the information, relieved to learn that her gut was right, and went total NC on him, blocking his phone, email, and FB.
I was much further from Meh at the time and will admit feeling a sense of vindication that I helped his next target avoid any self-doubts that might have led her down the garden path and that STBX had the rug pulled out from under him so unexpectedly. I’ve since come to accept that I won’t be able to do the same with the next target (the new woman confirmed that he’s has gone to town with embellishing the “crazy-ass wife” story) and am happy to report that I’ve been strong enough with NC that I don’t even know if there is a next one. Though if one does ever approach me, I will be happy to share a few tidbits that might at least plant a seed of doubt.
@Other Kat: This happened to me too! My ex started expressing interest in someone. Turns out, she is someone I know who vaguely knew my story, but she did not know who my ex is. Fortunately, she told one of her good friends about who she thought my ex was expressing interest in her, and that friend happens to be one of my friends. She knew the extended version of my story and who exactly my ex and the OW are, so my friend was able to pass on the info to the other person.
My ex-wife’s AP divorced his wife in 2011 shortly after a 4-5 year affair with my ex. I found out about the affair in 2014 and divorced my ex. I reviewed the AP’s divorce records during my divorce to see if the affair was the reason for the AP’s divorce, and to see if my ex was mentioned. to see if my ex and an affidavit of the AP’s daughter in support of her mother, indicating that she and her mom believed the AP had been having an affair during the time that he was in fact having an affair with my ex, but he denied it and the mom could not prove it during the divorce. The AP found a new love interest before his divorce was final.
It’s been five years since the AP’s divorce. I did not find out about the affair for three years after the divorce, so it was too late for the information to be of assistance to her in the divorce. Telling her now would validate her suspicion and make her aware of the real reason why her husband divorced her. The guy was having a long-term affair and deceived her for years which, like me, she suspected but could not prove.
CL – Would you please delete my post.I inadvertently pressed the submit button, and was trying to delete rather than submit. It is not really on topic, and It was not complete anyway. My apologies.
I am with Tracy on this one. I learned the hard way. After I played detective and found out who had been knowingly seeing my husband of 14 years for 5 months (and who didn’t care that we had a 1 and a 2 year old at home), I found her FB page. She was posting non-stop crazy-making things about how she’s a wounded-by-men victim who HATES cheaters and liars. Yet, my ex told me repeatedly not to ever bother contacting her because ‘she knew everything’. The two things didn’t add up. How could she know she’s with a cheating liar but HATE cheating liars? I concluded she’d been conned and knew nothing. She had kids. That made me feel a tiny sliver of compassion and so I was not…at ease with just letting Jack the Ripper sit down to their dinner table without at least trying to warn them.
I was still in PTSD/meltdown/sob-when-a-family-walks-by mode, and it was a horrific mistake. I found her number and sent her a text with some basics, and said she could call me to learn the whole truth. She did not. Instead, she went off on me on a FB rant with venomous, shitty, cruel taunts. She put a big fat cherry on top by posting ‘I pity you, get a life!’ with a Mr. T picture with the caption ‘I pity the fool’. I think the rage that created in me on behalf of myself and my tiny babies who were unceremoniously DUMPED without warning when he moved 2,000 miles away to live with her took 10 years off my life. I have never, nor do I ever want to again, feel that level of rage enter my body. Nothing is worth that. Especially not saving her undeserving-ass from a sociopathic narcissist who she so clearly deserves.
Not everyone will have this experience, but in the end, you expose yourself to the possibility of being dragged into a world of shit you did not expect. All cheaters lie and play the crazy ex-wife card, and HomeWreckers like this one will always be there to lap it up. No matter how many years we spend slaving/being faithful/sucking it up with a smile/birthing babies/cooking/cleaning or stink-tolerating, our loving-kindness is repaid with a kick in the junk. Screw them. They are crazy-making evil bastards. MAY THEY FIND WHAT IT IS THEY SEEK AND LEAVE US THE HELL ALONE.
Pretty sure my X’s latest victim was an AP during the marriage, whom he dumped to try and wreckoncile,and then wooed again when he determined I wasn’t going to wreckoncile with him.
If that’s true, she deserves him. Have at it.
Whore juice knew he was long term married. Didn’t care. So much fun being sneaky. Asswipe told her he most likely would cheat on her too. Didn’t care. She said she would be so perfect he’d never cheat on her. ( first three husbands did not so perfect).he cheats on her with one woman. Throws him out convinces him to come back. You see, cheating is a deal breaker for her! And now he’s cheating on her again! So this stupid bitch hooks up with a known cheater and expects him to be faithful. Four is the charm. The cheater should come with a warning label on their foreheads but it wouldn’t matter cause some woman are so full of themselves they “know” he wouldn’t dare cheat on them. Hah hah! You did the right thing. Let them find out themselves it is a horrible learning lesson but a lesson all the same. And the stupid bitch asswipe is with deserves all that’s coming to her! Let her suffer yet again. Wonder how she got her first three husbands. The ex is a liar and so is she. Fuckers.
When my ex was divorcing the first child he married after our divorce, she asked mutual friends to put her in touch with me so she could talk to me about it. I said no becaise, at the time, I thought it insane for her to ask ME to do something for HER, all.things considered. But a part of me felt bad.
Through later counseling, I learned about how my chumpy knee-jerk reaction is to think if anyone needs help I must respond and if anyone wants something from me I must deliver, and that is exactly why I am the perfect target for serial liars.
Yowch.
I think CL did the right thing letting it go. You can’t save the world. In fact, in many respects, you can’t even help the world unless you put that oxygen mask on your own face first.
Putting yourself in harm’s way to help another isn’t always as noble as it looks at first glance. You might be of far greater help to her and to garden girls everywhere when you are testifying in some super insane court case later than you could ever be while trying to convince her why she shouldn’t be in her garden. 🙂
I sent OW’s husband a short note, just letting him know his wife was cheating. I didn’t include the proof. It will be easy for him to find if he wants to look. Other than that yeah, I got the same thing. He told people I cheated on him and that’s why we divorced and that I already have a boyfriend. After what he did to me I doubt I will ever be able to trust a man again. It’s only been 8 months since d-day so I know I could change my mind on that but seriously, the bullshit mountain of lies just keeps getting bigger. I fear that if OW’s husband scratches the surface and is upset by her cheating that she will leave her affair behind and my x will turn his attention towards me again. For me it’s a safety issue not to press too hard.
Wow. This is exactly the dilemma I faced. And I decided, like you, to go for no contact rather than a warning that he would explain to her is a crazy, disordered ex speaking. I only know about her (the new woman) because he bragged to me about it, told me her name, etc. This week I finally blocked him and told him he can email me if he ever needs to communicate. Of course he doesn’t do that — no kibbles involved. Going no contact may seem hard, but I highly recommend it. Thank you for posting something so incredibly relevant to me and what I am going through now. Your posts are beautifully written and helpful to so many of us! By the way, like you, my cheater had his double life already in place for years before I started dating him. Very painful, that.
What could you possibly say that wouldnt get you thrown in jail for harassment or make you look like a loon? I think until more language about cheaters becomes mainstream you will be talking another language. I know I was clueless about Narcs and the cheater narrative until I was neck deep in the shit. You who come across like Brad Pitt in 12 Monkeys.
I had the pleasure of visiting my my ex SIL and her children. Tweeny ( the underage twit who is with my ex) has been asking about me. I guess even in her undeveloped prefrontal lobe things arent adding up. My ex SIL told her to call me. Said ‘ if you call her she will talk to you. She isnt this horrible person that Idiot has made her out to be but I think you are putting that together’ Ex SIl is equally afraid of Idiots rage so she keeps a comfortable distance from his life.
I think the OW deserves what she gets and the new chump? ….. Well nothing says you cant send her a copy of CL book … U know her address right?
Don’t worry CL, we’ll all tell her for you when she shows up here in about a year. Just post the letter you get from Brokenhearted Flowergirl. “Dear Chump Lady, he said his 3 ex-wives cheated on him….”
I have been struggling with this same issue. He has had a girlfriend for about 9 months now, not either of the other women. I know her, we worked together. He sends emails to me about loving me, missing me, love of his life, blah, blah, blah.
I got angry. Challenged him about his girlfriend, doesn’t he see he is betraying her, using her. He responds “I am not and you are just the type of person that would tell her”. Also,” this has nothing to do with her, it is about us”.
I have blocked another email address. For my own sanity.
I do wonder if I should forward those emails to her to warn her. He is going to hurt her, not if but when. I feel complicit. I also worry about poking the bear.
A friend said to me, sometimes there is doing the right thing and then there is doing the safe thing. For now I am not saying anything. I feel guilty though. I have information that would hurt her now but could save her from going through this hell.
Except that you’d be warning her about what he’s doing now, not just what he did in the past. Any way you could run it through the rumor mill? Let the gossip mongers get the word out that he’s contacting you?
I have told his brother in law but I honestly doubt he will say anything. After all his family did not tell me the truth about his lies.
This is really bothering me. I wish there were a way to tell her without exposing myself. I used to minimize the abuse from x, he would never do that! Now I know I really don’t know how far he would go.
This exact issue still troubles me deeply. The part of me that wishes to protect others from harm wants to tell the lovely, sweet new girlfriend to run. To explain. To tell about the decades long problem with hookers and the possibility of her being exposed to stds as I was. To detail the heart break, lonliness, the despair, the pain, the betrayal, the many chances, the deceit, the absence, the lack of empathy, the unfinished work on the house, the unpaid bills, the power getting turned off, the massive debts. But I know she is allowed to see only the good stuff now. And likely only can see the good stuff. And he’s the victim since I left him after 18 years of bullshit and emotional harm. Because I moved on and began a relationship with one of our friends he can tell a sob story. She left me for so and so. He looks like the perfect victim. Aaarrrgggh. My therapist and I discussed warning the girlfriend as an ethical issue. Do I owe this woman a warning? We decided that as long as this woman is a grown adult making her own choices it is up to her to live her choices. This would include her assessment of his life and stories, and her discernment based on what she chooses to see. This also allows the possibility for change in the ex. Still, I like to treat others as I like to be treated and I wish I had known the depth of this man’s problems before deciding to marry and have kids together. I knew a few minor things but he hid the reality of his life extremely well, and I was a trusting and kind person who never doubted his stories and saw incompletely. As of today I do not feel totally ok with either telling or not telling. It is just one more sucky shit thing at the end of a long, sad list.
My cheating ex-wife married an affair partner, coaxed him away from his wife and two small children to move cross-country to be with her. So, no warning necessary. Those two know exactly what they’re getting in each other, and it’s exactly what they deserve.
As the kids these days say, “Suh-WEET.”
CL, if you had been warned before you married the cheater, then there’d be no Chump Nation.
Perish the thought.
Yeah, I had to take one (uh, four D-Days) for the team.
Don’t take this the wrong way CL, but I am glad you did take one for the team. You were meant to make your mark in this world in some capacity and what an impact you have made on so many lives. Thank you, thank you. 🙂
I would not say anything because then I’d be afraid he’s come around and tell any new person in my life that _I_ was the Cheater. A bunch of you here said your Cheater tried to tell people it was YOU. My desire to “Save the next victim” is outweighed by me not wanting to get dragged down too. And there is a large possibility that the new one was one of the ones he cheated with so then I REALLY wouldn’t lift a finger to help of advise her.
It’s a no-win situation. Warn the new partner and you’re feeding into the “crazy ex” narrative. Say nothing and the new victim is left twisting in the wind, eventually wondering what they did so wrong to precipitate the narc’s inevitable behaviour, of course until they discover the truth themselves the hard way… Just like we did.
In most cases, I think the Chump needs to stay out of it, if only to maintain no contact and get on with their lives. It’s not because you don’t care if an innocent person gets screwed over, but that you have to maintain your own sanity. That takes priority.
Now if at some point, said innocent person reached out to the Chump and asked for some information, I wouldn’t hesitate to give it to them. We’re not talking about the AP the cheaters end up with people, we’re talking about some new person completely out of the loop of the bullshit.
I’m quite chummy with the Xwife of my first husband. She came around after me. She was pretty shy around me for years but very sweet to my kid so, I was always nice to her. Hell, she never did anything to me.
Then she began sheepishly calling me asking my opinion on things. I’ll never forget she said, “Can I ask you something? Do you think XXX will ever get and keep a job?” The more we talked we found out the same stories he used to tell me about one of his X’s, he told her about me. He just recycled his spiel over and over again.
Now her and I are buddies forever. 🙂
I really like this story. Leave a cheater, gain a friend. Something good to come out of something bad. 🙂
Added bonus, both her and I have kids by him. We’ve shared holidays together (minus the X because he’s not really all that involved with the kids.) She’s like a second mom to my kid and me to hers. It’s a very nice ending to what was awkward for a lot of years. Don’t think that would have been possible if cheating was somehow at play with all of us so, we got lucky there.
Considering that your ex has been known to pul a gun on you, it’s probably best you just kept on driving. It’s not worth risking his wrath.
On the other hand, I completely understand your urge to tell the unsuspecting chump. Maybe send an anonymous letter (there are companies online who will do this for you). She probably won’t believe it but maybe it will plant a seed in her mind and it might help her later.
He never pulled a gun on me. He just kept them lying around. He did, however, threaten to burn down my house… FWIW.
Yeah, that whole house-burning-down thing. Best to not re-engage that one. Scorched-earth threats tend to disrupt meh, something you’ve worked very hard to achieve.
Well, gee, he’s safe then ; )
You might be mixing up Tracy with me, my ex pulled a gun. But, he didn’t have guns lying around prior to that year.
To Whom It Concerns (Use Name when possible)
Re: ___________________________(Name of individual/sexual perpetrator)
Perhaps you already know or have suspected what this letter concerns. You may also have no idea at all and this information will come as a shock. In any case it is vital that we reach out to you, as there are implications for your health and the health and well being of your family.
Your partner has been sexually and emotionally deceptive while conducting a secret parallel sexual life and one that you may be completely unaware of. The other person is __________________________(name of other partners if known)
This is an anonymous letter for the partners of people who commit sexual and emotional deceit. We hold all those people who willfully perpetrate and justify their compulsive sexual secrecy and behavior accountable to those to whom they have pledged fidelity.
Since it is a known fact that most people who commit infidelity do so without practicing safe sex submitting unaware victims to exposure to STD’S. We feel it is our duty to warn and allow you to protect yourself from this reckless behavior. We regard this as a human rights issue and a form of domestic abuse by stealth.
Our sole purpose is to level the playing field with the knowledge of what is going on so that you can make informed decisions for your own life and that of your family.
Valky
You brought uo a good point regarding STD’S. I have evidence of him getting tested for HIV within weeks of DDay. I was fortunate it was treatable. That was the biggest deal breaker and forced me to open my eyes. He was sleeping with multiple women.
Sending an annonomous letter is risky. I believe our lack of any kind of a relationship with them speaks volumes. You would think a man who spent a lifetime with a partner (41 years) and raised three children together would at least be able to acknowledge each other at public events. I’m holding my ground and will never smile at him or say hello.
This would be a huge red flag if I was dating someone. My therapist was accurate when he said he couldn’t get anyone intelligent or attractive.
Was on Reddit adultery page. Alot of these people harp about dead bedroom and harbour lots of resw resentment for their spouses. What I noticed was that some of them after having been busted cheating seem appalled that their partners were not as gung ho about a relationship with them. They talk about their unsuspecting partners as if they are shit and glorify their affair partners. I find the narrative all about their wants and desires. They want to feel special . they partners physical appearance is over emphasised. They admit to feeling no guilt. They acknowledge the risk they take in getting caught. Some say they are even addicted to having partners and those who end it are looking for another. They don’t give a shit about their spouses and say as much. Yet I. Their minds they are awesome. I could not even follow that kind of fucked up thinking along with the rationale. While some describe situations like ours minus cheating none of them convey any care or regard for their partners. It is all about them. Very me me me. Even in referencing children. I am disturbed at how disordered these people are. Worst of all alot of them believe that there is some kind of integrity to be salvaged from the sordid lives they lead. They are willing to blow up their lives and those of others literally for sex. Wow. Inside their heads is so fucked up that there is no other way but out of the relationship. Ironically they loathe kindness shown by devoted clueless partner.
Mandie 101, the cheaters just want somebody to screw and they are too cheap to pay for prostitutes. Ergo, the popularity of the Affair Partner. No commitment, sleazy, easy free sex. Almost all these tramps are big foreheaded skags. They aren’t better than the spouse, just cheaper. Can you tell I don’t like whores?
Lol! I am picking up a strong dislike. Some claim to have fallen in love with the ap yet are not leaving the feathered nest. Most of those who said they have are not with ap but claim to be happy to be free to….fuck around. Cause they had these god awful dysfunctional relationships and if only they could find that one perfect genitalia ideally attached to a hot body that possess none of the million and one flaws that their spouses possess. They never fully get what they deserve. What they deserve is exactly what they meted out. And since there is no point in waiting for that then lick our chumpy wounds and go. Having read all the trash there combiny with cl I realize that they are just not my kind of people nor am I theirs. Cool. Just don’t waste my fucking time pretending that you are. These shit heads can’t even process when their selfishness causes us to pull away. When their dick headed behavior has consequences in the relationship. I hated how my srbx would say some uncalled for mean thing then within minutes approach me expecting me to want to be affectionate. That is not how you fucking got me to sleep with you…by being an ass. But now you can be an ass all day and I must still be receptive. He was asking me to open up to him during what became shit ssx after the second d day but he was still carrying on with her and flirting with others. They think that they alone want sex. Difference is they don’t seem to care if the trust is there or not. I blame myself for staying. I think cheating is a strike one offence. Chump lady is very right on this. Turns out he has always been a cheat.
Donna, I believe you and I are marching a very similar path, we are the same age and both married the same length of time, both discovered waaaaay to late that we bred with lying, serial cheating narcississtic sociopaths. (Wow, I never would have imagined I would ever be in the position to be writing a sentence like that) I would love to speak with you sometime. Is there a CL appropriate way to reach out in friendship to a follow Chump?
Ohana found some site that allows you to send an anonymous email that the person might have been exposed to an STD.
Ohana??
Hi Tempest, busy week, just saw this. There are a bunch of places to send an anonymous STD warning. Just Google and they’ll come up.
I used inSPOT.org
It allowed me to personalize the message, which was important in my case as I was warning a suspected AP I’d learned was pregnant.
As a bizarre bonus, their message is sent as an e-card, complete with a cartoon. I chose something like “I got screwed, you might too…”
It might work to warn a chump but you need to have contact info (email, mobile #).
I did not let the OW know that my ex hubs was a serial cheater and that he cheated on her several times. She was a cheater too cheating on her husband with mine. I thought they should have at each other. I did try to locate her husband and let him know what his wife was doing behind his back but was not able to reach him. The OW and my ex are still together but she never lets him out of her sight for long
If a current SO of my ex sought me out regarding our history and asking my genuine opinion, I would be happy to oblige her.
But proactively approaching his chump out of the blue completely flies in the face of MEH. My days of being the hypotenuse are OVER; I have no desire to be a player in the drama of his life.
Besides, if one of his exes showed up and warned me about him (and his crazy family) early in our relationship, I would’ve thought she was just jealous or crazy. Or if I did believe what she said, I would probably gloat about how he’s changed and how I’m such a special snowflake that sure he will be different for me.
I would follow the advice of the Institute for Relational Harm Reduction Blog Talk Radio which suggests getting yourself healthy and educated in case she ever calls out to you. At that point you can educate her/him with facts concerning a relationship with a disordered person as opposed to bashing her partner. She can plug her experiences in and make her her/his conclusions.
I was about to mention that radio show Informal, great content by Sandra Brown. Here is the link – http://www.blogtalkradio.com/relational-harm-reduction/2014/10/24/after-a-pathological-love-relationship-hes-moved-on-and-is-with-someone-new
Best use of my lunch break in a long time
X-holes “go to” excuse for his failed relationships/marriages is “she threw me away, she didn’t want me anymore, everyone throws me away.” He FORGETS the part where that happened AFTER he gets caught wetting his willy elsewhere.
He is still seeing OWhore, I warned her hubby about X-hole and what she was tangling with…he relayed the info and her response was (text to X-hole) “As I told you before, she is NOT going to run me off” and she proceeded to assist with the destruction of my family and my son’s existence. Can’t possibly wish enough misery and karma on that bitch! I can’t wait until she gets fucked over so i can send her flowers with a card that says “Thank you for setting me free and TOLD YA SO!! Bwahahahaha!”
In my opinion, it’s doubtful that anyone would believe our warnings anyway because you have to live this shit to believe it or understand it. It took me 7 years to call his ex-wife and ask her if we could talk. Once the shit hit the fan she is the one who helped keep me grounded, he had already done it to her so she was able to tell me what to expect, what he was capable of. She just kept telling me “it’s not you” and “he’s not going to do the right thing”. I value her friendship, we still talk regularly and go out to have a few beers and dance.
As for him and his sparkly troll….I derive great pleasure knowing that she is being fooled. I also derive great pleasure knowing that being with her isn’t making him any better, actually worse. He continues pathologically avoiding ANY thing that makes him uncomfortable, this includes bill collectors, the law, the IRS and the karma bus is closing in rather quickly. Idiot will spend any amount of money (that should go to bills/child support) on anything that makes him feel better and distracts him from the truth of his eternal dissatisfaction and what a disordered asshole he really is.
Cheaters love to control the narrative during the discard and throughout the divorce. The whore knows he is a serial cheating asshole because he was MARRIED when she got involved. He bragged about the slunT NOT caring.
Now I control the narrative by letting others know where he lives and how he abandoned his family for a crack whore he picked up at a casino bar.
Just yesterday I was sitting next to a man who is in the same field and let him know he no longer cared about his business due to his alcohol and drug use. The Limited lives too far away to maintain his accounts. He wasn’t surprised because he had heard people were dropping him. I let him know I was supporting two households and my son while he sits at a casino getting drunk,nightly with a drug addict.
I said this calmly and let him know my life is so much better since I divorced him.
Cheaters EARN their reputation. Once we are out of the picture we no longer have to police the assholes. I am tempted to give the whore the names of the other women he has on the sidelines. Why? I’ve realized he’s already lost everything. I no longer have that chaos in my life. Whomever he hooks up with will eventually smell his rotting flesh.
Regarding the ex, anyone he dates/marries/etc is fine, as long as it’s not the slimy whore he cheated with. I know too many bad things about this slut for her to be around my daughter. I stayed with him long enough for him to lose interest in her but if she ever comes slinking her nasty ass around again, let’s just say her secrets are no longer safe with me. Right or wrong, I specifically listened to garbage abut this skank for that exact purpose.
One thing I never do myself is date friends’ exes. I know some people do but it’s just too weird. Lucky I live in a fairly big city so it’s not an issue.
“No good deed goes unpunished”
Sandra Brown’s website offers, IMO, some sound advice against warning your ex’s new target:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/relational-harm-reduction/2014/10/24/after-a-pathological-love-relationship-hes-moved-on-and-is-with-someone-new
I may be stating the obvious, but I am becoming increasingly convinced that serial cheaters are somewhere on the spectrum of Cluster B Disorders. For the newly chumped, such information may provide you some comfort. Meanwhile, chances are that your ex or STBX has already whipped up a big, crappy batch of confirmation bias – aka painting you as the crazy partner or ex-partner/spouse. So, any contact and advice to the new target will be filtered through that pre-formed opinion.
It can be tempting though. A few months ago I received a “view” on my LinkedIn profile from someone who was not at all related to my profession or skill set. She was a nurse, and wasn’t savvy enough to check out my profile anonymously, so I got her name, photo, etc. When I saw her, I instinctually knew – here’s his newest chump. And yes, I did ponder sending her a message – something like “I know why you’re visiting my profile, and I just want to say that I understand your curiosity. However, please be very careful about what you’re thinking of getting yourself into. I don’t know what you’ve been told, but there’s ALWAYS more to the story”.
I was well on the road to Meh by then, and was eager to continue the journey, so I decided not to initiate the opportunity of a discussion. Now if one of his targets initiated contact and wanted to talk with me, I would consider it. I could discuss it dispassionately, and, if it was requested and I felt it was safe to share, I could offer a mountain of hard evidence.
I got an angry call one day from the affair partner now new life partner regarding something else.
After she stopped ranting and took a breath I proceeded to say ” look…..you must be seeing some of the signs by now. If the hairs on the back of your neck are standing up and you can’t really figure out why you need to listen!!” I then proceeded to tell her that I wasn’t the devil and I had 86 text messages from him asking to hook up with me on the DL after he left me for her. When confronted, he told her he only offered sex to me to get me to settle the divorce, so I would think he still cared about me.
She’s still with him and has told him he can never speak to me again unless she’s present or listening. She now has my old life……a life watching your back. I hope she enjoys being the marriage police, she can work that shift now.
You can’t warn them, they have to find out the hard way.
I would make her a member of the Book of the Month Club with Tracy Schorn’s Leave a Cheater…. as the first selection.
I have Chump Lady business cards for this very occasion of, “What should I do?”. I don’t have to say a word just hand them the card and leave.
I think it is a public service, if we have the opportunity, to inform the unsuspecting of possible danger. More so if the ex preferred the company of sex slaves.
For the record, I don’t consider the OW/OM unsuspecting.
I am I the only one who feels that t is ok to let the new partner know? I had a friend call the OW when he got back together with her after I kicked him out, and tell her who he really is. All the cheating, lying, and callous disregard for his family. Of course the OW didn’t say a thing and I was warned by STBX’s attorney to stop the harassament, even though there was no proof it was me.
I just feel that I would want to know who I am dating. When I get back to dating I believe I would like to speak to the new guys X. I mean what a treasure chest of knowledge they have that I would not be able to glean after a few months of dating a guy on his best behavior.
But a disordered person probably would not believe a word I told them about his cheating, or they probably do think they are soooo special that he would never do that to them.
I am sure I wanted the other woman to leave him so he would be as miserable as I was in that moment, or at least cause some conflict in his life. But it did not work. They are still together and I am working on getting to meh. So is it ok? I don’t know. Knowledge is power. What the other person does with it is out of my control.
How can you “warn” the OW about your X? Did she not know about you? Because if she did, warning her is a little pointless isn’t it? You roll around with a person cheating on their spouse, you can expect they’ll do it to you. What’s to warn them about?
I guess that he is a frequent visitor to Craigs list and Plenty of Fish, even while dating her. That he started cheating once I was diagnosed with breast cancer. Just that he is a POS. But point taken. She is a POS too so it was useless.
If she was aware that he was married to you, screw her. She deserves whatever comes next. You owe her nada.
I’m seeing a very kind divorced man. He has an amiable relationship with the X, wherein she calls him for help and he helps her. She left; he’s not sure if he was chumped but I’d bet my last $ on it. For a long time, he was holding out for that unicorn and showing her what a great guy he is. I don’t need to talk to her. I’m just watching them interact, listening to what he says (he never badmouths her–says “she gave me the best thing in my life, my child”) and how he treats her. And how he treats me. Where those boundaries are on all sides. We’re in the early stage of things, and I’m in no hurry. I don’t need a highly biased view from a cheating X or an OW. How he treats parents, siblings, child, friends and co-workers speaks volumes.
“When I get back to dating I believe I would like to speak to the new guys X.” Careful with that . . . if you feel the need to do that, I don’t think you’re ready to date period.
I’m seeing someone now, and like LAJ says, watch how they are with friends, family, kids. I would have a real problem with my current boyfriend wanting to speak with my X. And I wasn’t the cheater.
New relationships, new slate. There’s plenty of things to look for to judge their character rather then dredging up their X’s.
Thanks Rumblekitty. You are right I am sooo not ready to date, I am still in the divorce process. And that’s a good point if I looked at my X’s “friends” I would notice he had none. If I looked at how he treats his family I would see he ignores them. If I looked at how he treats his kids, I would see his college age son sees him infrequently for dinner and a movie. His teenage daughter blocks his calls and refuses to see him.
Those are all red flags to me now. I mean when his mom passed away in the hospital he called me to sit with his dad. My X? He went back to work at the same hospital, he is a doctor. Not a single tear or need to support his dad during that time. But I think he and his father have Asperger’s and just don’t have empathy. The dad was cold as a rock. When it was time to leave the room for the last time he got up and from 20 feet away said “Bye ______ (her name)”. I mean WTF! I told my X after that please when I die don’t do that to me. He just laughed. HELLO! I was brainwashed that this was normal behavior.
On the upside I just attended a memorial of a dear friend who died in her 40’s and met a man who only knew her a year and was besides himself. I was floored and optimistic for the human race. I was so used to living with a Cyborg that seeing people actually having emotions is heart warming.
I should mention I certainly don’t have all this shit figured out. I”m not all smug in coupled-land. But my point is that, even if I were to grill his X (who cheated on him in this case), I don’t think I’d glean much knowledge. Plus it would make me look like I don’t trust him right out of the gate. Instead, I pay attention to how he treats me, his family, friends, and his kids.
Even with a new slate, and even if you did everything as perfect as you can, you can still pick a dud. The relationship I’m in now could very well blow up in my face like the last one that brought me here. But I try to pick smart, and try to be brave and not worry about things I can’t control. If the worst happens again, I’ll survive. And really, what is the worst that could happen? I’d have to start all over again like before. I’ve done that and I could do it again.
At least after having that anvil of betrayal drop on my head, I know I wouldn’t put up with shit this time around.
Are you sure she cheated on him? Did your (STB)X tell you his X cheated on him too? What if she told you it was him who cheated? Danger! Danger! Danger!
Well, I’ve heard it from him and multiple people that my current boyfriend’s X cheated on him. His family even knows about it.
My X husband, (He’s not STB, it’s a done deal) never told me anything about cheating. He always said they grew apart, got married too young, blah blah blah. But I found out later that he had in fact cheated on her. But the idea of going up to someone’s X and asking about the demise of their relationship is just, creepy. It’s one thing if I felt I had a reason to, but to just spring it on them, Nope. Not me. They were divorced for years before I came around. Besides, I never felt the need to ask her if he ever cheated because, hey . . . I’m a chump. I trusted him.
Hey, dating is scary. But I’m not going to be a scared bunny always assuming the worst is going to happen. If this one turns into the last one, he gets fired, post haste. Asking his X if he’s lying really isn’t going to get me anything, is it? Because . . . I’d be asking a cheater.
Following my Match.com conundrum (see archives), I opted not to tell his new GF. I’m not sure if she was an OW or not (she was a neighbor and there were a few neighbors he was screwing around with. And her husband moved out two weeks before I did…hmmmmm). Anyhoo, she’s a snot so I’m glad I didn’t. Let the chips fall where they may. And when they do, I won’t care.
Movin_on—please advise how to find your story in the archives….(I just looked and was at a loss). I would love to read it as I too, had a Match conundrum. Would love to compare notes, so to speak 🙂 Thanks
Sure thing! August 2013 – https://www.chumplady.com/2013/08/dear-chump-lady-my-ex-husband-is-on-match-com/
Hope it helps in your situation, Hesatthecurb.
Movin_: thanks, can’t wait to read it! Thankfully I am pretty much at the doorstep of Meh, though it’s taken almost 5 yrs to get there. The asshole BF, combined with what my XH did prior, almost wrecked me….
One redeeming factor: I know the karma bus has hit him (HARD!!!) several times and will continue to do so (because he’s just so damned fucked up) until the day he leaves this earth.
I agree with the observation several others have already stated — the only reason this bothers us is that we are chumps. We care, even when it would be better for us if we did not care. We want to fix broken people. We want to keep others from being broken. We like to see justice and experience closure. CHUMPS !!!
Side note: I really love chump values and think the world would be a better place, if only . . .
Sad Truth Time — the world is full of many, many varieties of bottom feeders as well as many, many victims in waiting. Our social system does not prepare us to deal with liars and cheaters and con men and serial killers. If we receive moral or religious education, it prepares us for the next world, not this one. I thought of myself as fairly well educated and I had been exposed to enough variations to the “norm” that I believed I was worldly enough to deal with odd variant freaky types of folks. Really, I was naïve and a little dense, because I thought if I lived my life the “right” way, things like that would not happen to me.
Quit laughing — it happened to you, too!
I was chumped more than once — and I still felt broadsided when I was contacted by OW who had some questions and some very enlightening information for me. It did not take me long to believe her, even though I could see she was trying to manipulate me. It set me off on another long tour of duty on the under cover investigative police force, and through a whole series of psychological steps close to the Kubler-Ross model of dealing with life ending information.
However, I talked to her. I found out how utterly depraved she was capable of being, and how desperate she was to believe that I was “bad” and she was “good” and how much she thought she “deserved” being the “winner” in the POS contest. I even could see things that we had in common — a horrifying thing for me since I considered this woman completely delusional and depraved. I hated her and still felt that even though she was a POS too, she didn’t deserve what HE was doing to her — because NO ONE deserves that. Karma will dole out justice — God can launch a thunderbolt — I can stand on the sidelines and enjoy it, but I shouldn’t get down in the mud and sling it. For my own sake, my own standards, my own peace of mind, I know better so I should act better. At least that is what I believe.
Slowly she saw the truth. She did not want to believe it, she tried everything not to believe it. But even her reptilian brain had to process the truth. Because permanently disordered people do not change. They lack the capacity to change. They cycle, and they never ever think of anyone’s benefit but their own. They can only sustain pretend values for so long. They are truly hollow and devoid of redemption. He dumped her, too.
There are a zillion new targets out there for these predators. There are new victims, waiting in line, anxious to have a relationship and get their chumpy hearts broken. There is no end to their capacity to hurt and endure pain. You cannot save them — they can only save themselves, eventually. It is like the percentage of success for court ordered rehab, as opposed to rehab you seek yourself. Someone else cannot make you want to change — you have to want to change yourself. It is only when it becomes more painful to live with your bad choices than it is to change to better choices that you will change. Until you choose the truth for yourself, you will find a way to get used to the pain.
If asked, you might point an OW in the right direction. Don’t volunteer to help.
This statement is also a key to the question of whether a cheater should get a second chance: “Because permanently disordered people do not change.” If what you have is someone at the middle or far range of disordered, reconciliation is a big risk and a waste of time.
Love it, Portia – “Karma will dole out justice — God can launch a thunderbolt — I can stand on the sidelines and enjoy it, but I shouldn’t get down in the mud and sling it.”
I honestly doubt the karma bus will hit my ex anytime soon. From all outward appearances, he’s living pretty well. But I know it’s all smoke and mirrors and that helps me be at peace with it. BTDT and it was a miserable existence. So even if I never see the karma bus come (oh, how sweet it would be though), I’m gonna be okay. I just don’t want my son to think his dad is a “winner” … Please, God, don’t let my son be like his dad…..
Huh, hello? Remember Chris Evert, Paula Yates, Tiger Woods or Arnold Schwarzenegger? They have no problems finding new kibble dispensers…
I think you did the right thing.
Not my circus, not my monkeys! If it were an innocent chump coming to me with questions, I would provide the evidence I have accumulated.
But if his current cum-dumpster AP came to me with questions, I would tell her to go read Dante’s Divine Comedy, especially the first tome (Inferno).
I could watch the slow-motion train wreck of Jackass and his MOW on social media. At times, especially when the affair crashed, she seemed so depressed I actually felt sorry for her because nothing good could come of this “love” she risked so much for. I’d love to hear her version of things but I would never initiate contact. For all I know, he never told her he was in a relationship when they started up; he probably had to tell her once I caught him but who knows what he told her. Both of his ex-wives were crazy, don’t you know? And his other relationships were mostly with married women so he could write them off too. So my guess was she would just think I was crazy.
Yup, I already thought this through and came to the same conclusion.
My XH is currently in a long-distance relationship with a conservative Mormon woman in Idaho, mother of four. He moves from Illinois to Idaho next month to be with her. I browsed her FB page a little bit (shame on me, I know, but he wouldn’t say why he was moving to Idaho) and saw her mention that she doesn’t watch rated R movies, so she’s apparently a very conservative Mormon. Should I warn her?
Nope. My XH already convinced the OWhore that I was “crazy” and “psycho” and “lying,” I’m sure he won’t have any trouble convincing another woman of that.
Besides, I would be pretty pissed off if my XH tried to contact a new boyfriend and talk s*** about me. I would be upset if any past boyfriend tried to contact the new guy to warn him off from me. And if I were really crazy about a guy, and his ex-wife / ex-girlfriend contacted me about him, would I listen? It’d be hard.
OTOH, if the new woman ever contacts me for any reason—because she wants us all to be friends “for the kids,” whatever—I will be happy to tell her exactly [I]why[/I] his new family and my family will never be “friends.”
It’s also Mormon church policy that, if a divorced person re-marries in the Mormon temple, the bishop contacts that person’s ex-spouse to make sure they are current on child support and see if they have any objections to the marriage. I’ll be happy to report his CS status then and discuss his affairs.
Any one who dates/pursues a married person doesn’t need any type of warning. They already KNOW that said person is a cheat, liar and can’t be trusted. Oh wait… not them. They’re special! *eye roll.*
I discovered some messages between the STBXH and his AP where she confesses her love to him, how they need to be together and her recommendation that he dump his wife. So even if I wanted to warn her I couldn’t, as their love is Special and I’m just that awful lesbian slut of a wife who cheated on him with men and women. Who ill treated the children and was mean to him. *sighs at the lies.*
However, if I were approached by the woman after the STBXH’s True Love (because there rarely ever is just ONE True Love you know!) I’d spill the beans.
He is manipulative, a liar, a cheat, has brought home STDs, has poor money management skills and is (sadly) a thief.
As for the AP? I had no warning that my life would be destroyed so she gets no warning either. She deserves what she gets – and more.
Someone set up an anonmyous facebook account recently just to send me a message to say my husband is still seeing the OW. That is more or less all it said: “just so you know, your husband is lying to you, he is still seeing OW”. I have to say it has done more harm than good. I am pregnant and really need calm. In my panic I repsponded all dramatically….”please be my friend, what do you know, my head is a mess” the other person never replied. I am working up the courage to divorce my husband whatever but I think that anonymous messages just leave you with more questions. I have blocked this person because I don’t know what to believe and I would hate it to be someone malicious like the OW or her friends and I have just given them satisfaction.
So after that experience my rule would be stay out of it if it’s an Ex and if you are responding out of a moral conscious think very carefully about doing it if you’re not prepared to put your neck on the line as it can cause more pain and more of that feeling of “I’m going crazy because I don’t know the truth of my own life”
Ambivalent, I had a similar situation once with an anonymous phone call. Only thing is they didn’t give me enough details to confirm anything, and when I asked my husband he just said it was a disgruntled coworker trying to get back at him. It caused a lot of anxiety but didn’t solve anything. I’d say if you’re going to alert someone, you need to present them with irrefutable evidence.
I know people need to provide some substantial information (e.g dates or places) or the Cheater just denies it. I struggle to think that people are just malicious but then I struggle to believe husband sucks so maybe something chumps have in common is a niave trust in the good in people. X
My husband cheated for years. I was totally unaware. I was tipped off by two anonymous phone calls from a man. I wanted so badly to know who blew up my life. I am certain now that it was my husband. He wasn’t getting enough satisfaction from the cheating, he needed me to be hurting as well. I’m sure the prostitutes were fabulous but it’s so much better to have me on the side begging him to love me..I begged and pleaded for him to value me and our family. Tired of it all, he has until this Monday to be out of the house.
Yes someone suggested to me that it could be cheating husband. I have wondered if it is an exit affair, which he flatly denies. If it is him then he really is bat-shit crazy and I think I would actually find it funny; more evidence of an escape if/when I find the courage to leave him. I might have children with him but I’d still have years without that kind of crazy in my life.
Ambivalent Chump,
If it’s not too late, have an abortion, leave that cheater, and RUN!!!
She could leave him and run sans abortion, if it is against her moral code.
Ambivalent chump–I never fully trusted my then-H and would have *welcomed* any hint to pay attention to his activities at graduate parties, conferences, lunch hours, etc. I could have left years earlier. I know anonymous tips are maddening if not accompanied by hard data, but sometimes it is all that a spouse needs to hire a PI, or to at least plant seeds of doubt that can be used later.
In many cases, I wonder if an anonymous tip with some data isn’t the best route–since one is never sure how a prospective chump is going to take the news, this preserves social relations while still giving the chump information to lead an authentic life.
AC – just letting you know you have a golden opportunity to get out of having to deal with visitation bullshit – don’t put the fuckwit cheater on your unborn child’s birth certificate, when he or she is born. If fuckwit cheater wants visitation, he can prove paternity (which of course, being a cheater, he won’t want to do as its inconvenient).
You’ll save yourself so much pain having to deal with crazy for 18 years – the money from child support is simply not worth it.
Yes, but Lania, that money belongs to the child . Kid may resent not having funds for essentials and college, etc.
What, the likely 2 cents (or a pittance more) a month you’ll get, and the endless legal battles trying to extract more money from them, while they lord it over your head saying “Haha I can see my child and I don’t have to pay for it”? Or working jobs under the table and escaping consequences because they cry poor? Or a legal system which simply doesn’t hold cheaters feet to the fire in regards to actually paying? And then dealing with the fuckwittery which is the AP trying to poison your child’s mind? Not worth it.
Not sure what you mean by 2 cents a month. I think the formula in most states is about 25% of net or somewhere in that neighborhood. Extrapolate that over 18 years and you are talking a lot of money that the child could use. The child has the right to this money, It is not the parent’s call.
Firstly, I don’t live in America.
Secondly, there have been multiple stories on here where the fuckwit cheater has obfuscated their income, to get out of paying the correct child support – and/or then refuse to pay it at all. You’re talking about Cluster B’s here – you cannot reasonably expect them to be fair to their children when they sure as fuck weren’t fair to their spouse.
The onus is then on the chump to pursue legal action (which they often don’t have the money for) to have a chance to get money (which may not be paid anyway).
I’m saying that its an opportunity to get out of the drama and bullshit for 18 years, having to deal with that crap. And then dealing with the crap of the cheater sub-parenting the kids, dealing with AP’s, dealing with toxic out-laws and their families, dealing with Switzerlanding arseholes and so forth. Also, the kids don’t need to deal with that bullshit either. Not to mention the toxic poisoning of said children to become exactly like the cheater.
As for ‘essentials for the child’ there are many programs which offer assistance for children who may not have the money to afford schooling and so forth. You deal with the hand you have been dealt. Don’t deliberately put yourself in the face of drama – because most times it is simply not worth it.
Here, the state will pursue the parent. Should cost zero.
I understand the upside of not having him involved in her life etc. But, you are talking about depriving the child of financial support, that may, severely, ikpact ghe child. The child has a right to the money.
This is something I wrestled with a lot, especially when one particular minister pressed upon me that it was my duty to keep another family from breaking apart. She wanted me to tell the husband of the OW what I’d discovered. Only thing is I’d already been painted as the “crazy ex wife” and I had a gut feeling it would all blow up in my face. I talked to my kids about it, showed them the evidence in their dad’s own writing, and they said “put your efforts into building your new life, don’t waste time trying to alert the OW’s husband.” For a long time I tried to imagine ways I could get the info to him anonymously, but then I washed my hands of the whole sordid ordeal. For all I knew the husband of the OW was okay with the situation, maybe he had his own AP on the side, or maybe they had a 3-some with my ex. Who knows? It was all a big cluster**ck. My ex had even won over the OW’s parents, as he moved into their basement for awhile after we separated. It was crazy. Some people don’t agree with my not warning the OM, but I followed my gut and feel I made the right decision for me. I’d already wasted too much of my life on that sad situation.
Regarding informing an innocent person of his/her spouse’s affair(s): While married and living with me, my STBX repeatedly engaged in very risky sexual behavior with people who had multiple incurable STDs. Thus, I was exposed. I wish that at least one of STBX’s friends had told me about the extramarital activity so that I could have protected myself. Would you like the innocent husband of adulterous OW to contract a deadly, incurable disease? You can save someone’s life by telling him or her about the affair.
Some women don’t care if their men cheat. Skank Woman KNOWS my XH has cheated on her and still stays with him. Go figure. But then again, this was a 52 year old woman who knew he was married but still thought it was okay to sneak off to a skeezy motel and spread her skanky legs for him. It’s the best she can do apparently. So it wouldn’t make a bit of difference if I or anyone else told her. She wouldn’t care at all.
No. The OW knew about me and views that she “won”. But for years, his ex-wife (who I got along with very well) tried to warn me. And of course, I did not believe her. But he absolutely controlled the narrative. He would beat her to the punch by coming in irritated and say ‘N. says I am going to cheat on you. I don’t know why she says that. I never cheated on anyone.’. Lies. Before I went totally NC, I sent a message thanking N (the ex-wife) and my step-daughter’s husband. They were the only people in the entire family (who all knew about OW) that made any attempt to let me know that something was wrong.
I felt no need to warn the OW. Fucktard ex brought her along to burglarize my home, so she should have been able to figure out what a prize she’d won all by herself.
The OW has to learn the hard way for herself, just as we all did. In my case, another coworker of ex and his “soul mate” OW (IT WAS NOT ME AND I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT IT) actually DID send OW an email warning her that ex slept with tons of other men and was generally bad news (in looking back, I now suspect that the letter-writer — a good friend of ex — was probably sleeping with him as well). Not only did this email do NOTHING to slow down the affair, but the OW’s husband saw the email on their computer and that’s how he found out she was cheating on him with my ex. The OW continued her “twu wuv” affair with my ex for many months longer before it finally either fizzled out, or she ended it, I don’t know which.
Not so long ago, a good friend of mine actually ran into that OW (now divorced) and the OW said she regretted ever leaving her husband.
I feel very, very sorry for any woman who gets involved with my ex, but I would never contact any such person or warn her in any way. I know ex would have already portrayed me as a bad person and I know the new chump would never believe me. Just like me, she will have to learn the hard way.
I exchanged some emails with OW that I realize I should not have, but in one of them I said that exWH had cheated on me with at least 3 women, so it would probably happen to her too and nobody would feel sorry for her. She responded that she knew all about those OW and she had also been unfaithful to her husband so she understood. It was so jaw dropping to me. Neither of these people know how to keep their pants on yet they think their love is going to transcend because they understand each other. Oooohhhhkay. Good luck with that, idiots. I just wish my kid wasn’t involved in their life.
My ex-wife’s “next one” was cheating on his wife during their affair, so this created an infinite double-infidelity black hole loop of crap. No mere mortal can bring advice to them and survive to tell the tale!
Oh my goodness. I have all kinds of conversations in my head w all the players, don’t you know…some of this is just an extension of those fantasies.
I had a pretty good relationship w my ex’s ex, and we talked before the wedding. I asked questions, she was gracious enough to answer. Her responses entered into my decision.
I’m not sure we’ve discussed this either, but I’m pretty sure ex’s behavior changed after a long deployment & exposure to combat. Not an excuse, rather an observation. So her feedback fit at the time, & her character evaluation seemed on target up to the deployment. My story would be different, w the events post-deployment. They break them w war & broken people act differently.
I say if the new chump has the insight to come ask you questions, answer. Otherwise, it’s just perpetuating a connection, drama, you are better & safer without. Let it go…
They all have the same modus operandi, don’t they.The XPOS was married 3x (we never married; musta been my lucky 10 years!). Anyway, yep, he said every single last one of them were either bipolar, crazy, liars, cheaters, fake it till you make it (his words), and/or temptresses.
He also claimed his stripper (the one he cheated on me with) was spoiled, crazy, and threatened to kill herself if he left her. RIGHT!!!
Oh right…. a 25 y/o stripper who could have any other degenerate in the bar is gonna O.D. for her 50 year old ‘sugar daddy’.
In my shock and rage at DDay#3 (finding the trove of emails), I sent OWhore Dr Despicable Literary Genius a copy of one of the “best” of her emails (preempting her denial) and informed her that she was in fact, nothing special; she was just OWhore#3. Also, that as I was going to kick him out, she would likely become Chump#2.
Her response? “From what I know of him, I don’t believe he could cheat on a TRUE wife.”
I don’t think he had time to cheat on her – she was so nucking futs that he dumped her almost immediately.
As I was coming out of the fog and getting my shit back together, I tried at various times talking to my siblings ( I’m the oldest of 5) about keeping their money separate in their (from the outside, seemingly healthy) relationships, and was met with uncomfortable topic-changing all around. Even for the most innocuous protect-yourself-just-in-case discussions, even with people who know you very well, there are tremendous barriers to accepting or dealing with even that limited kind of warning or insight. It’s just not something people are prepared to deal with until they are neckdeep in it. At least my sibs know they can ask for my perspective if they ever do find themselves there, sigh.
Jung apparently told some trainees, “Don’t worry about giving bad advice, people rarely take it anyway.” The same warning applies to good advice.
Maybe even more so…
Hi Tempest I know you are a psychiatrist so I have a question for you. I hope you don’t mind and see me as a bother for free advice. It would mean the world to me because I have never been able to solve this riddle which has plagued me since last year, If you could read my story which is at the top of the comments. I want to know why my ex blurted what he did and then took it back??? I was so confused, why say such a damning thing? This was at a time I was at my lowest and very depressed. I m doing so much better in retrospect, it is like night and day. However, I always wondered about this specific “blurt”? Have you ever heard of someone telling the truth only to take it back?..Thank you in advance
Hi fbi,
I’m so sorry you are going through this hell. Please google and read about ‘gaslighting’ it will help you understand how someone can say one thing one minute then deny they said it the next. I’m sorry to say, it really is typical disordered behaviour. You ask why? Well, it could have been a thought he was having that he momentarily failed to stop his mouth blurting out. It could have been a deliberate attempt to hurt you. It could have been an inept attempt to deny (a bit like – yeah, and pigs might fly) which sounded good in his head but came out as too close to confession. It could have been a confession that he didn’t have the balls to stand behind, so then went on to deny. It could honestly be a deliberate, conscious act of gaslighting – done specifically to get you to doubt your own sanity. Honestly, they really do this.
Check out Freudian slip on Wikipedia, that will help you understand the ‘psychological mechanics’.
It is crazy-making, this behaviour. Read up on ’emotional abuse’ as well as the above suggestions. Rest assured, when someone drops a verbal bombshell one moment then denies they’d even dropped that bomb the next, then the crazy one is THEM and not YOU.
Tempest isn’t a psychiatrist fbi, her field is psychology 🙂 But she is a marvellously wise and insightful MIGHTY woman 🙂
Wishing you strength and clarity x
WowW thank you Jayne, I guess i need to validate that his blurting was an admission!!! I need this affirmation. It is so awful to go through something like this, I can’t believe it! As I said, this was last year when I was discovering what he was capable of, I was in deep in pain and shock, but I now am feeling better because I no longer believe him. I think this was my lowest point and albeit have trouble understanding how someone would be so stupid as to tell the truth and in the same breath revoke it.
fbi – From observing a number of disordered family members, bosses, co-workers, past friends and exBF’s, their admission will appear like an accidental blip and then that confession will be retracted and denied forever afterward. Still, those rare admissions are helpful as validation that I really am seeing them as they truly are, despite their usual deflection and rationalizations.
My theory is that they KNOW what they’re doing is wrong but lack the character and courage to really look at themselves and stop their behavior. Easier for them to shift the blame on the other person, gaslight, deny, make excuses instead. I see that it’s a kind of compulsion for them to lie, cheat, steal, insult people and pretend to be something they’re not.
Pathological liars have been lying for so long that it’s their WHOLE life – at work, with social and romantic relationships, family. They have to keep up the falsehood in order to maintain the life they’ve built with all their lies, lest it all come crumbling down. It’s a strange trap they’ve made for themselves but I feel much more sympathy towards their innocent victims.
Thanks Keepawaynarcs, the more affirmations that he really did what he admited but then retracted makes me stronger in my decision to not talk nor see him!
FBI–I’m actually a research psychologist (rather than a clinical psychologist or psychiatrist), but my field (cognitive & developmental psych) is actually very fitting for this. Will head up to your comments above.
FBI, I’m not a psychiatrist but my ex did that type of shit too. I’m not sure if it’s that they accidentally blurt the truth and then try to gaslight you into believing they never said or meant it. OR if it’s that they want to see if you will ACCEPT it and stay but realize quickly you won’t, so then they gaslight to get you to doubt your reality. Stop trying to untangle the skein as soon as you can. Probably you won’t be able to stop for a while yet
Jedi Hugs!
Datdamwuf thank u so much! Yes it’s true in a way he wanted me to accept him warts and all..perhaps he wanted to see my reaction. I m no longer with him and your comments help me see that he was indeed gaslighting me in the worst way!
Stbx says that he says stupid shit for the effect. Just to see what would happen. All a fucking game to these shits. Like anybody got time for that. Filing for divorce this week. My birthday gift to myself!
I warned the current chump, Narcissa California, and for my troubles I got an email telling me I was a bad mother due to my anger issues (!) (she has no children, mind you, and I have a fantastic relationship with my adult daughter). Also that I should just accept destiny or some kind of similar crap–like she did with her Parkinsons. Yup, having your husband of 25 years cheat and lie is exactly like a long-term illness….because the illness planned to betray you, and schemed behind your back, amirite?
So now she’s just a joke to me–then again, I realized she was still married to her former husband when she took up with mine. That is to say, they were both married. Bird of a feather, and all that. She has buckets of money, but she’ll be in a wheelchair soon–I do wonder how that all will play out, but I don’t know and have no way to find out. That’s a good thing. (although the popcorn opportunity would have been brilliant)
I would tell. Actually, one of the last things I said to him before I went NC was that if I ever saw him with a new woman I would make it my mission in life to warn her to run! run far away! OK, so I look like the crazy -ex. His MO is that I’m likely to be the crazy-ex anyway (that’s how he consistently described his previous girlfriend to me) – so I got nothing to lose there. Sure, for a while she might see my approaching her as confirmation of his narrative, but, undoubtedly, it wouldn’t take long before she’d start wondering if I hadn’t had a point.
I used to fantasize a lot about approaching ‘her’ with ‘I know you won’t believe me, but he’s a cheating, lying, using bastard. Save yourself’, and then handing her a slip of paper with my email address should she ever want to talk to me. ‘The Great I Am’ was/is one of those particularly evil narcs who convince you you are the centre of his universe, while simultaneously fucking everything including the sofa and bringing about covert financial ruin. I HAD NO CLUE, he was/is masterful at this game. His unmasking was a Twilight Zone nightmare that destroyed almost my entire life’s belief system – and I wasn’t ‘new out the box’ when I met him – I thought I had a handle on life and people! Had someone approached me before D Day, sure, I might not have believed them, but I sure as hell would have contacted them POST D Day – I really did feel like I was losing my mind, having someone else saying yep, that’s true, yep that’s really him, would have honestly, honestly helped me tremendously (took 4 years of major mindfuckery before I found CL).
Funnily enough, I work in his neighbourhood. I (because of my work) frequent the same Tesco’s he does. I know he is a creature of habit, but only once, early on, have I ever seen his car in the car park. I saw it as I was leaving, and my blood ran cold. I really reckon he saw me in there and hid, and has either chosen to shop somewhere else (he doesn’t like his routines broken – he doesn’t like it at all) or, because he knows my shift pattern, he makes sure he only goes to that Tescos when he thinks it unlikely I’d go there. This suits me fine, but I do still think I’d tell if I saw him with someone. I honestly don’t care what they might think of me for doing it (hey, so I’m crazy – whatever)? or whether he’d be prompted to try to break NC – pfff, he doesn’t know where I live now, his number is blocked and I don’t have to read his email. I know he’ll never change and so I know, even if it’s only a teeny, tiny smidgeon of doubt, I’ll be giving some poor soul the ‘heads up’. Whatsmore – I am certain he targets chumps like me, so his next victim is going to go through hell for nothing more than being too trusting. God help her.
Hypothetical…imagine if every chump or almost every chump in the entire world would warn every single cheating ex’s new girlfriend/boyfriend (assuming it’s not the AP) then the effect might be similar to extinction – like in the animal kingdom (assuming the warnings would be on-going through the cheaters life span of course).
Take away the predators in the food chain — the cheaters, narcs, liars and turds — and the state of marriage would then be filled with more monogamous people. Basically, predators eventually would run out of chump prey. Bar-coding the cheater would just be too inhumane, ha-ha
This whole topic reminds me of how important it is to be truthful when adultery ends a marriage. RIC/etc recommends just slinking off into the sunset, be friends, the better person, we grew apart, etc etc etc.
Cheaters LOVE this. They can hide their true nature for however many more years it takes others to catch onto their shit. If they ever do.
Mr. Good Guy hates that I Ruined His (sparkling) Reputation. His whoring didn’t ruin it. My telling of the whoring ruined it. There will always be shady rumors about this guy. And it’s his own damn fault.
I agree. My solicitor told me ‘if you’re divorcing him because of adultery then you should make that the grounds’. I had been under the impression that it would be better not to go that route because it would be more difficult to get through. Anyway, I’m really glad I took her advice. It was amazing when my husband had to sign the paperwork admitting that he was an adulterer and it was also clear in the court papers that I had cancer. His signature was really, really small and cramped and looked nothing like his normal writing. I watched him sign it so I know he wrote it. And now it is there on public record. I don’t know why this makes me feel better really, but it’s like some public, legal acknowledgement of what he did to me.
That’s great, M!
My ex was pretty sure I’d stay quiet on the infidelity. He was not expecting me to tell every single person in the world, which I did.
My lawyer was really really against me pushing for infidelity to be in the reason for divorce. She said it didn’t make any difference and it wasn’t worth the fight. I told her if I was going to sign my name to something there had better be truth to it and the truth isn’t irreconcilable differences, the truth is that he liked to bang his coworker on business trips and that is why we are divorcing. He refused to accept the infidelity wording and I refused to accept irreconcilable differences. We went back and forth for months but finally we agreed upon wording that stated the reason for divorce as “irreconcilable differences as a result of husband’s infidelity.” My lawyer was relieved and so was I. I was willing to go to trial over it.
I don’t understand going back and forth over wording. I filed for abuse, desertion and adultery – I didn’t ask exasshole if he liked it, I just did it. It was hard because I had to describe the abuse but it was what happened.
Why didn’t you just file and go to court if he wouldn’t agree? You didn’t have to work it out with him. Your lawyer sounds scared of litigation. And I say that as a litigator.
A trial would cost me 20K or more on top of what I had already paid. A trial is really not the best way to get a divorce. It should be a last case scenario.
Barcoding sounds perfectly humane, although I would settle for those transparent/white tattoos that you can only see in the dark.
I have some rather creative ideas about where the barcodes can be placed…….
Well Surechumpedalot, have you seen that website called Shesahomewrecker? You can find homewreckers there, male and female. Maybe we should start a list online where people could post the name of their cheater…to warn pitential chumps. Maybe call it Assholes.com.
The cheater I was with would think that Assholes.com was a site dedicated to him. He said many times to me that one of his X wives in her home with his kids used to refer to him as ‘the asshole’.
Didn’t know it then, but she was soooooo right! And then some!
Ihavehate…at least he has the insight to know he IS an asshole. Maybe he considers being an asshole to be a good quality. They have no shame.
yo – that website just made me laugh out loud!! My colleagues are now hovering over my desk and we are having a field day with all the pics of these low-life cheaters. Funny as these cheaters all look the same look, very eerie.
Yup. Somebody on that site noticed that they mostly tend to have big foreheads. Somebody referred to it as the “fwhorehead phenomenon”. Im sure most big-foreheaded ppl are perfectly decent good ppl…but still…they do resemble each other. Weird huh?
It would be great if dating sites had some sort of forum where we could warn each other about the losers who habituate the site…but alas, they don’t exist.
I did the next best thing. The loser/user/predator/alcoholic chronic gigolo used Match to find women to live off of for years following divorce #2. (Guess what the cause of both of his divorces was….) About a year after getting rid of him, I saw he was on Match with a profile so full of lies about himself it was tragic.
I contacted Match’s customer care and informed them of his MO. They were quite interested to hear of his physical abuse of me. I spilled the beans in a calm manner and they believed me. They immediately closed his profile and he is banned for life. If he were to try to find out why this had occurred, he would have to hire a lawyer and subpoena records…..Hahahaha, there’s no way he could get an attorney to bother with that much less be able to afford it.
I managed to accomplish the same when I discovered he was on POF.
So, I couldn’t warn anyone…..I just SAVED them the trouble of ever meeting him ;-).
Well-done, He’satthecurb!
My XH has married the AP and moved her here from another country, thousands of miles away from her kids and grandkids. She doesn’t work and has probably a handful of people to talk to. Some of X’s family want nothing to do with her. But it is all ok because she is with her true soulmate! I know – nuts right? Nothing I could say would change the mind of someone this delusional. I know for sure XH is cheating on her but I wouldn’t dream of telling her. I’ll just make the popcorn and wait for the entertainment. (Not quite at MEH yet!)
When I first found out about OW, it was via an email telling ME that H was a liar. Presumably because H told OW when he “asked her out” that he was getting a divorce. Surprised she was too naïve to realize all narc cheaters say that when trolling for new supply. Crying to the wife that a cheater hadn’t gotten a divorce after 2 years? After he promised? Boo hoo. I guess she thought I needed to be the one to get the divorce going. She was right about that. Amazingly, H didn’t accept that the email came from “his side of the fence.” (In the manure field?)
I did write to OW and say that while I had no sympathy for her methods, she might want to take note of the fact that H could have pursued a divorce at any time but never had. Which was rather inexplicable, since we both have decent jobs and no kids. (I do have stepkids.) Indeed, I am now having to force the divorce. H is working overseas, so it is as difficult as possible to get him served with anything.
Fortunately, OW keeps me “informed” – via FB pix – of the dissipation of marital assets via exotic trips they take. As my lawyer says, “it’s annoying, but helpful to us.” Apparently, OW thinks she is special and that this will never happened to her, because she “would never hurt H,” like I am willing to do. (By telling the adult kids what is really going on. She has no idea that every time he comes around me, he tries to romance me. I have posted some of the flower deliveries on FB for her perusal, but it has not deterred her.
I should add that H was married once before. Only last year – after I was with him for 13 years – his adult daughter told me that he was a serial cheater on her mother. Absolutely no one told me this – not his parents, or his sister, or her husband. His ex-wife did not seek to divorce him or pursue fault grounds when he sought to divorce her. As a result, I was set up to be chumped. So I certainly think there is a place for telling at least an innocent chump to be.
When I started reading these posts earlier today, I felt like going through the archives and counting how many times people said they wished someone had warned them. But I wouldn’t have listened. My husband (not the ex) acknowledges that he would not have listened. So would you have listened? Who knows? The general feeling here seems to be that the warned one would not listen.
Sparkle, apparently, conquers all. At least, for awhile.
For me, I think warning an OW/OM keeps the concentric circle of pick me, pick you not, dance going. As I look back, after D-day #1, it just brought out the worst insecurities in me. It made me weak and insecure to the point of lost soul. So, for OW #2 who was married, and knew exactly what she was doing, she will discover that she is one snowflake in a blizzard of snowflakes.
Ex and were both free when we got together later in life and I look back on our initial romance with blindness and fondness (we knew each other for many years) because it made for our youthful romance that ended up lasting 15 years. But, I also know that all of the things that made him a terrible partner in the end will rear its ugly head again.
Ex and I had no children so I can’t say if I’d feel differently if we did, but if any of his ex’s, or newbie GF came to me for information I’d be very hesitant to stick my big toe back in the slime – And the only thing I’d ever say to the MOW/AP is there’s a special place in hell for snowflakes like her–that there’s a certain kind of suffering when the special snowflake melts in the dirty snow pile of having an affair within a circle of friends.
For a while I secretly hoped MOW/AP would take him down and dole out the big karma, make him do the pick me dance of rejection, make him suffer, knock him off his pedestal, but the more distance I get, I just see them as two infinitesimal melted snowflakes. –Don’t even know if they are together, maybe I’ll know someday through the grapevine, maybe not, but a big part of my healing is coming from not caring if they are, or are not. The notion of that place of indifference is a sweet spot, for sure.
Well here is something very strange and I am not sure happens often. I am FRIENDS with AP #1! It was very strange at first. When my ex dumped her and came home, I was sure to post things publicly on FB so her heart hurt like mine did……I was being love bomb heavily at the time. She reached out to me via fb about a month after we got back together and asked for my forgiveness in the situation and told me she was happy for us. I told her to go choke on a dick basically…..I HATED her and what she represented. Though in the back of my head, I knew she was in a bad place. She risked everything for my ex and lost her marriage, family’s respect, and 1/2 custody of her kids. In my mind, served her right bc she knew what she was risking and knew about me and my two kids. Well, after being in therapy for a while after D-Day #2 (different married woman) I decided I needed to express forgiveness……that she had requested……to help me let go of my anger. She fell all over herself apologizing and giving me information that I needed for my divorce. The proof I needed to show adultery and readily offered to testify in court if needed. We began to talk nearly daily, it stopped being about OUR ex but about daily things in our life. I came to realize that she was a victim just like I was. Though she played her own role in the affair, she expressed her feelings about being sorry over and over and answered every question I had no matter how shitty it made her look…..she freely admitted to being a shitty person during that time. The lies she was told about me melted away and she realized I was a wonderful mother and wife. Not the person she was led to believe I was. We keep saying we will meet for drinks but I guess I am not quite ready for that just yet……the first time she called me to talk, as soon as I heard her voice I fell to pieces……and she comforted me. She is my cheerleader in my divorce telling how much better I deserve in my life. Now I guess for all intensive purposes, we are friends. Check on each other. We can’t be fb friends or make it an open fact bc we will BOTH get hell from ex-narcissistic asshat but we are friends non the less. My therapist supports this friendship and has told me to invite her to one of our sessions. Anyone else out there experience anything close to this???
SouthernShine, IMO that’s all kinds of fucked up. You’re not both victims. She knew your ex was unavailable and SHE was unavailable as well — married with kids. “Being in a bad place” doesn’t cut it. You’re vulnerable and this person is not a friend — she participated in fucking you over. Great that she’s sorry. She can show her sorry by getting out of your life. I worry she’s picking over the bones and getting off on your pain.
I had an OW do similar. Didn’t tell me she was an OW (I found out later), just a “friend” of the ex, who knew he was a cheater, knew about the long-term OW, and was at my wedding! She did the whole befriend me thing too. And honestly, I think she was sincere in a very fucked up way and felt “bad” for me.
But not bad enough that she didn’t fuck my then husband behind my back.
Same with this woman. You’re vulnerable. Fix your picker. And maybe fix your therapist picker as well. I can’t believe your shrink supports this!
Yes, NPDs have victims. This person was a volunteer. There’s a difference between being a chump and being an accomplice.
I should add, at the time, even though it made me a bit uncomfortable how this OW “reached out” and wanted to help me move even (!) — looking back I feel like an even bigger chump. I knew enough to know this person wasn’t neutral. I’m mortified by the association now.
Maybe I do need to rethink this. Your comments have made me realize that yes, I am VERY vulnerable at this time. I suddenly feel like it hasn’t been the best idea. I know I am not in a good place….evident by the idiotic skip in my heart that I felt yesterday when I told said asshat that I had signed the paper work and the divorce would be final in a week or less…..bc she told me this was the “first step in a positive direction to bring our family back together”. I did pull myself together enough to say “irony of that”. I am trying to become more healthy and set boundaries…..I have been failing. I am in a divorce support group and have more women pursing me than I care to admit (which kinda grosses me out) and I thought forgiving this OW would help me let go of anger. But just typing that made me realize something…..I don’t have to be her friend to forgive her. Hmmmm…… #learnaswego #failingatdivorce #makingbadchoices
I agree. The fact that she was also married w/children AND having an affair with your husband (someone she KNEW was married) who then consequentially dumped her does NOT constitute future friend material for you. Apologizing to you is one thing, but her eagerness to help you in your divorce sounds like she is carrying a vendetta against your STBX…
Here is something else that pooped into my head……OW is a serial cheater as well, big time! Our morals and values do not align. That is contradictory of a good friendship. I have been pretty foolish!
SouthernShine74, in my experience, hell to the no. I would never trust that woman. But it’s your situation, not mine. Not being judgy, just truthful.
Very similar experience. I met the OW and have developed a similar appreciation for her. I’d love to chat with you about the details…can we do that on here?
KFTsC, comment with your email address and I will send you an email. I would love to build a support network of Chumps. I attend a Divorce Recovery Support Group weekly but I am the only female among older men for some reason.
SS, its all about her then, and still is even now. She’s using you as a weapon to be a vindictive piece of shit against your fuckwit cheater. She trampled your boundaries when you told her to choke on dick – because its all about her. She knew damn fucking well what she was doing to you, and didn’t give a fuck. The only reason she’s in this, is because she sees a means to gain in some way, over it. You’re being used.
Your therapist is an idiot too. Get rid of both of them.
My ex asshat triangulated me with his ex wife continually throughout our relationship. She was the mother to his 2 kids and harassed us constantly. My nickname was the “whore-cunt-bitch” and it was relentless. But there were times we would try to get along esp. When I saw how he verbally abused her and played head games thru text. His parents were always telling at him not to respond to her. But guess what he did, egg her in and then claim she was abusive. There were many attempts where her and I would try to get along but he always manages to ruin it. When we broke up (numerous times) I started to feel sorry for her and understand her crazy because he was doing the same to me. A very vindictive ex. At least I didn’t have kids with him.
We had tried one last time to reconcile and then he fucked it up as per usual but then implemented a 2 week extra special Hoover complete with flowers and when one as still refusing to respond one week later I see him leaving down town with a new girlfriend and her kids eating ice cream.
Cue up my total nervous breakdown and begging God to help me and he led me to reach out to his ex wife. Who is now my best friend and the best support I could ever have. We compared stories and realized that everything he did to me (covert narcissist and cheater) he did to her first. Even the days off with him, she told me word for word that they did what we did.
The good news is that I still get to see my former step sons and she watches my kids for me sometimes. We have done our work and made our peace together. Ironically this douchebag leaves a trail of destruction of women all in therapy…
And yes, at my lowest I did send a letter to his new gf to warn her. His ex laughed her head off saying it nailed his pattern perfectly. He repeats the same stories, same future faking etc. So I put all that in there so even if he makes me out to be crazy the seed of doubt is sown.
When I first found out I didn’t warn the OW. Then I found about about the serial cheating and I did warn her, because she is very young and I figured I’d do a girl a favour – and I was hoping it would get her out of my life and my children’s lives. Naturally she didn’t believe me (especially not the bit that he was seeing other OW while seeing her) so I left it alone. If he’s not cheating yet he will be eventually and she’ll figure it out the hard way. Would I do it again? Probably. Because now that I just pity her and know what her future most likely looks like I figure I at least tried to warn her and safe her from the whirlwind she had gotten caught up in.
OW are entirely different creatures from Next Victim Chumps, aren’t they? I would definitely warn his next chump, without doubt. Saying that I did have some (I’m only saying some, mind) sympathy for the OW I found out about (ffs, she came to the wedding – but was happy to be courted by him 5 months later). She was definitely in a ‘vulnerable place’ when ‘The Great I Am’ made his move on her (her marriage had just blown up, so he told me, when she discovered her husband been sexually abusing her daughter, and then there was some garbled stuff about him living in Thailand with a ladyboy). So, she was obviously a narc magnet, and ‘The Great I Am’ absolutely targeted victims in the ‘vulnerable’ category (I was just coming out of depression over the divorce of husband#1, and was, without doubt, ‘vulnerable’). Obviously, the OW in my case needed no warning – ffs, I was the one in the big fuck-off dress that she had trouble looking in the eye – so my strong suspicion is the flirting had started even before the wedding, but still, I did feel a bit sorry for her.
ps … the information about the breakdown of her marriage was stuff ‘The Great I Am’ told me, well before D Day. For me, at the time, he was just telling me about the scandalous breakdown of a co (ho) -worker’s marriage. After D Day, I reflected on what he’d told me and how excited and animated he was when delivering that bulletin. I think now, knowing his MO, that was the moment he decided he was going after her – he was thrilled – honestly thrilled, that she was married to such a sexual deviant, and believed it indicated she was possibly as sexually deviant as her ex husband. Our sex life was far from vanilla (up until ‘The Great I Am’ my philosophy in this area has always been ‘a bit of spice is nice’ – but it never extended to pedophilia or transvestism – but that’s because I had a very unfortunate relationship with a transvestite that put me off the entire idea – my first encounter with a true narcissist – not pleasant).
this post really speaks to me, as i have a similar situation on going in my head (dangerous place).
i have emails from a woman who i suspect my husband cheated with. she is very explicit in the mails and mentions her husband, i.e. his schedule, as it pertains to when she is free to speak with my husband, his sports watching habits (so she will be free to speak to my husband) etc….
i have her husbands contact info, and i really want to reach out to him, as an FYI… is this just my angry mind being bitchy (which, truth told, I AM) or coming from a place of warning for his own good?
would love feedback from CL/CN
I would absolutely tell the OW’s H. With the written proof, however. Who knows what OW is up to? They could be arranging something more sinister, for all we know. I sure wish someone had told me. Because cheaters think they are too special to get STDs. But they aren’t.
agreed Janus, agreed! just figuring out best way to say it, but stay out of it at the same time! x
Wannabe–absolutely tell the OW’s husband. Everyone has a right to live an authentic life. Provide as much direct evidence as possible (which means you can make it anonymous). It may not have an immediate impact, but he has the right to know.
thanks Tempest, I agree fully. just makes me feel ill to blow up another persons sanity …. and being far from Tuesday I still struggle with the question of honor: am I being petty and wanting to cause her pain or being honorable and giving him awareness? because I am a chump, I don’t want to hurt innocent people, but because I am a warrior woman, I want to blow up those who hurt me… argh. I think i will print the emails and mail to him …. x
The injured spouse should know. Whether they believe or not is their choice. Whore juice was told by asswipe what a cheater he is. She doesn’t care cause she’s so perfect he will never cheat on her! Ha! He has many times and will continue to do so. If he told me in the beginning what he told her I would have run the other way!
Oh my God! This is almost my story, except my Ex is getting ready to marry the OW that broke up our marriage and he has another OW on the side along with his many profiles on dating sites that I have found. I know that to their friends and family, I am the bat shit crazy ex because when they got together they told everyone that he and I were going through a very nasty divorce and I was the crazy one making all of these demands and that is why he wasn’t divorced yet. Nobody ever stopped to wonder why it took us 3 years to divorce from the time the two of them got together.
I struggle daily with wanting to pack up all of my proof and send it to her. On some level I believe everyone deserves to know who they are marrying. I wish all of the people who knew what he was doing to me before we got married would have stepped up and said something. I probably wouldn’t have believed them because he is smooth, a great liar, and she probably wouldn’t either, but at least she would know. Her radar would go up and she would be watching. But, of course, she knew he was a cheater when she got him.
I also have a small part of me that is very petty and I want her to know how I felt when she swooped in and he cheated with her. I want her to know how it feels to have your world come crumbling down on you because you couldn’t imagine him doing that to you. I want her to wonder if it is her .. want her to wonder as I did if it was something I did or didn’t do … want her to know that feeling when you are walking away from everything that you built … wonder what your future will hold because the rug has been pulled out from under you.
Then I wonder about the legalities of it all. I believe I read it on here “if it feels good to do it, don’t.” Just what I would need. Some law enforcement officer at my door with some sort of a writ telling me to cease and desist. That would just be the cherry on the cake wouldn’t it?
And, maybe she will still marry him. But, as I did after the first OW (she wasn’t the first), she will always wonder … where is it? What’s he doing? Who is he talking to? What is he doing online? She will bug his computer and drive him crazy with questions. These are the things I wish upon her.
Yes, my struggle is real.
AnnieW, she already knows this guy is a cheater, and so is she. You owe her nothing . She deserves everything she gets, and more.
Well AnnieW, I actually did contact the OW and told her in gruesome detail not only what my husband had done to me but every detail of the year of nasty hospital treatment he had left me to face alone after he ran off to spend his time going to music festivals and having lovely times with her. I did this in a series of loopy emails over the course of about two weeks before I got myself together with the help of CL and CN and went no contact. To be honest, I really wish I hadn’t ever contacted her. In my defence I was very ill at the time. The only slightly dignifying aspect in my case was that I did legitimately wonder if the OW even knew he was married and she was quite young and I wanted to make sure she had the facts. However as it transpired she knew all along and didn’t give a shit. The last I heard they are still together. So ultimately all I did was make myself look like a crazy person. It’s not worth it at all is my advice.
I think this is a tough call. I’m not likely to go blurt out information to total strangers, and the new girlfriend of the cheating X counts as a random stranger. Almost certainly I’d be seen as the crazy ex-wife, no matter how calm or rational I might explain things. If I did feel like warning the new girlfriend, I’d probably go about it via the rumor mill. This works, as I live in a small enough community that it’s only a matter of starting the rumor in the same social circles that the X moves in. I’d probably say something to the effect of “wow, I was driving to the S-Mart the other day when I happened to pass the old house. Looks like XH has a new girlfriend. She looks really young and sweet. I wonder if she knows he’s cheated on not just me, but every other woman he’s dated.” Then I’d let it go.
I would not contact the AP to tell her that he’s a cheating asshole. In my case, she knew he was married and didn’t have a problem with that. If I knew the AP had zero idea that he was married, I’d probably tell her that AFTER I filed for divorce.
If the AP were married, I’d probably tell the spouse. I think that the spouse deserves to know. I probably wouldn’t say, “you’re married to a cheating whore who bangs my husband in the back of the minivan during the kids’ soccer practices.” I probably would say, “I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I just found out that my husband is having an affair with your wife. I’m letting you know because I know I’d want someone to let me know. Also, I’m filing for divorce.” Then I’d leave it at that.
People have to make their own decisions.
I think it’s best to leave things alone once you free yourself of an abusive, character-flawed ex. Although it is noble to want to warn someone about your ex, there are so many things that can work against you by doing so – even anonymously. If my ex’s new wife (not an AP that I know of) had reached out to me personally and asked about my ex, prior to her marrying him — yes, I would have told her of my experience with my ex. I actually felt kind of bad for her when she married him because I KNOW what she is in for. However, part of divorcing my ex included no longer being concerned about what he was doing nor whom he was with. Not my job to monitor his activities.
I have also contemplated this, but agree with CL.
The bottom-line is that many of our EXs are very skilled at controlling the narrative to their own benefit. As an example, my EX played the ‘we are still good friends card’ after DD#2/Divorce and would openly invite me to social events/parties at his house with his new gf (shortly after he was finished with OW#2). The Switzerland friends and the gf thought it was odd that I would politely decline and not attend. Hello…mindfuckery….
My policy is that my door is open to this gf – if she wanted to talk.
I had not one, but two of my ex’s previous partners warn me. He lied, covered, & blamed them. I believed him. He did EXACTLY what everyone here is saying they do. He told me that they were crazy, jealous & just trying to break us up.
I was made of 100% unsepecting chump. They couldn’t save me, & I now I know that I can’t save the next one. I look back now & do appreciate that they tried. They were telling the truth. I actually feel like I owe them an apology as I was trusting the wrong person.
However as far as schmoopie is concerned… she doesn’t deserve anything. Not even a warning because She knew he was married… The disordered are different than us. They should be treated as such.
The disordered actually like playing games. I would’ve felt terrible knowing that i was an interloper. But they actually feel powerful knowing that they are. It’s like a sickness that you’ll never cure. Just stay away. You don’t want them infecting you.
If and only IF interloping schmoopie does come crawling to me for answers… I’m giving her a copy of Chump Lady’s BOOK. It has the answers to all of your questions.
I was very fortunate to win a first look. This book is gold.
I sat with my meh mug & read every single page. At some parts I literally yelled out loud! laughed because it’s freaking hilarious, & cried both tears of regret & peace. The very last chapter is my favorite.
She’s outdone herself. It’s saved me from the fruitless tree that I kept climbing in search of happiness with a cheater. For some reason I kept climbing. Then falling… (more like being pushed to the ground, then being told ‘I’ must’ve slipped! & then left writhing in pain at the fall.) Only to climb again…. And again…
Tracy helped me to learn that I’m safer staying out of that broken ass, fruitless tree!
Thanks for everything CL
The lawyer in me wants to make this a checklist!?! Here are 25 questions. What did I miss?
Should I tell X that Y did Z?
1. Are they the AP?
2. Do you want to get back together with your spouse / X?
3. Do you have irrefutable proof?
4. Are they married?
5. Do any of the three of you have kids?
6. Do you have the ability to contact their SO / XSO?
7. Are you in communication with STBX’s Xs?
8. Is there irrefutable proof of an STD involved?
9. Is anyone a minor?
10. Is anyone wanted by the law?
11. Is anyone on probation?
12. Is anyone in violation of international residency laws?, e.g. Visas, Undocumented, etc.
13. Did he or she contact you first?
14. Is anyone a convicted felon?
15. Does anyone own guns?
16. Has anyone threatened violence, e.g., burning down your house?
17. Do you have a religious obligation?
18. Do you have a legal obligation, e.g., is one of the three violating a professional code of ethics – psychologist or physician – lawyer – CPA
19. Do you want revenge?
20. Do you have a third-party who might deliver the news?
21. Is there a protective / restraining order, or legal document prohibiting contact?
22. Have you asked a lawyer?
23. Have you asked a therapist?
24. Have you asked your best friend?
25. Are you reacting within 24 hours?
Some anonymous person with a fake Facebook account /did/ try to warn me about my wife. I told her about it she passed it off as drama overflowing from the online chatroom, and I believed her. I ended up blocking the anonymous tipster. They created another fake account and tried to warn me again, and I blocked them again.
The young lady won’t believe you unless you have photographic material evidence to show her, and even then is very unlikely to thank you for it. I’ve been in her shoes. I was sleepwalking and didn’t want to be woken up, and you can’t wake people like that. It just doesn’t work.
This really brings up a larger, fascinating question. Many people have expressed that they really don’t like the idea of their shiny new partner speaking to their Xs. I too REALLY balk at this idea. But it’s really quite a good idea. What if we EXPECTED our partners to talk to our Xs? Wouldn’t we all be on our “better” behavior. With the rise of the Internet and social media, it’s only a matter of time before the connected Xs is a commonplace reality. Embrace it.
Really.
Anything our Xs say about us to our prospective dates will say more about our Xs than about us. My vote is “no.”
I knew Saddam’s ex but she never mentioned anything bad about him, they were cordial and friendly with each other. After all the shit went down I asked why they broke up, turns out he was mooching off her for a year and refused to work so she kicked him out. He told me a far different story…
Bad idea on MANY levels.
**IF** you happen to find yourself in possession of proof that the person is indeed the next victim and is indeed being cheated on, then I think you might have a moral responsibility to tell that person.
Otherwise… in the words of Queen:
“No no no no no No NO!!!!”
My experience was a bit different. I don’t believe my ex has moved onto someone else yet. What I did find though was her trying to warn the affair partner’s next girlfriend about him being a narcisstic arsehole who “used people” like he used her (he’d dumped her when he found out his wife was cheating on him – didn’t need a low brow other woman like her then – he could date legitimately)! Her motivations were purely revenge based as I suspect some of ours may be at some point in time.
I didn’t even contact the OM’s wife to let her know. Maybe I should have. But I didn’t know who she was as such (she lived interstate) and she’d been cheating on him too – so not sure I really needed to warn one cheater about another.
I’ll add my voice to the chorus of not reaching out in most cases, but being transparent and not continuing to hide the truth and protect your ex’s reputation. This is assuming the new GF is not an AP, which I thought was implied in the original post.
I was in a situation where several months down the road from our breakup, my ex moved on from AP to a lady who seems perfectly lovely and has made a lot of very appropriate effort to show care and concern for my child. Of course, the more I got to tentatively know her, the more badly I felt for her. My rule of thumb though was that I would not initiate a discussion with her about my ex, unless I found out they were getting married or something, in which case I’d just say “Hey, you are probably make a HUGE mistake and if you want I’ll never say another word about it, but if you do want the info I’ll give it to you honestly.” She ended up reaching out to me, and I shared everything I had time to share with her, entirely honestly. It’s true that unfortunately, most people have to learn the hard way for themselves. She is continuing to see my ex and it seems like that’s mostly out of her own self-esteem / hopelessness issues that are really none of my business, but she thanked me profusely for my honesty, and at least I feel like she’s going into it with eyes much wider open than any of us chumps did. Mission…accomplished. And I’ll be here with a drink and an ear whenever the Thing That Always Happens eventually happens to her.
The only time I sent a warning to the GF of an ex was when she was not an AP. She was clearly a nice person, had a public facebook page which allowed me to see the photos and details of their relationship. He was playing the same romance with her as with me, taking her to the same hotels for weekends, same trips, letting her pay of course, as he did with me.
The reason I dumped the little shite was that he insisted on continuing to,see his long term fark buddy. Now that fark buddy-trailer trashy woman is not rich enough for him, which is why he’s always pursuing women who,will buy him things. She is hopelessly in love with him, and gives out sex whenever he calls. She also proudly posts pics of them together on HER public facebook page with details of where they stayed on their dirty weekends. She likes to claim him as hers even when he is dating someone else.
So, I just anonymously sent the URL of fark buddy’s FB page to current GF. Figure she got the message since they split within the week. I figure I did her a favour or at least saved her some money and time. She was too nice for him.
I personally would not warn her. She will find out in her due time, then she may contact you.
My ex married his AP. She knew he was married with kids when she pursued him and he continued to eat cake. I blame BOTH of them for the affair. When the ex told me he was marrying her, my response was, “And I hope you treat her as well as you treated me.” I meant every word and he thought I was paying him a compliment! She’ll learn his true colors.
The ex married his affair partner so I would not send her a warning.
When I found out they were cohabitating however, I did send the AP’s STBX a few emails I confiscated on my dday. I figured based on the timeline that she wasn’t divorced yet.
I thought it might be helpful for him during divorce proceedings since word on the street was he didn’t really know the whole story which was: His ex asked him for a divorce; he asked her if she was having an affair. She said no. My ex dumped her when we attempted to wreckoncile, hung around for 3 years and then searched her out when I finally came to my senses. All of a sudden she wanted a divorce again.
The letters I sent illustrated those fun little timeline factoids. Anyway I printed them and sent them snail mail style anonymously and forgot all about them….until psycho douchebag found a way to contact me.
She gave me the old cheater what for; oh yes she did! She told me what an awful person I was for hurting her ex because wait for it; Her actions-cheating and lying werent the problem. It was me telling him about it! That’s the real problem!
He already “knew everything” so I just set out to hurt him. And really since he wants no part of her in anyway (including financially) I only hurt him and not her. I am so not sure how the ex and her can fit their giant inflated egos in one house!
Actually, I would contend that if he wants nothing to do with her, then mission accomplished!
Anyway she contacted me a year and a half after I did it. (Delayed reaction much??!) Though I am happy that I was able to provide her ex with all the facts, I would not poke that bear again. It kind of threw me off my game that she contacted me and I decided that the very best way to go is to keep those wackadoos off my radar permanently. I didn’t respond to her at all. I am happy to let her have the last word to keep that drama out of my life.
CL that was a long winded way of telling you that you did the right thing!
Wow…cheaterspeak…my X-hole said basically the same thing to me after I called OWhores husband. “You trying to destroy other peoples lives just shows what a miserable person you are.” I laughed at him, I said “I tried to destroy their lives by telling him?? I’m the shitty person?? Not you, for fucking his wife…but ME for telling him??” Ummm….sure dickhead, I’m the problem. Assholes.
My ex thought it was horrible I told final OW’s partner about the affair but final OW was even more pissed. Felt I had ‘no right’ to interfere in her relationship. There’s some balls, eh?
This is a propos; “Run” by Nicole Scherzinger 2014
http://youtu.be/TJrJf1UAoqI
My ex makes sure that his current emotionally unavailable female ‘friend’ is never allowed near me. We sometimes attend the same events and it’s downright comical to see the panic in his eyes.
I am very much at Meh, but sometimes I take a break from Meh and enjoy the sensation of being a ticking, unexploded bomb in that man’s life. It’s not very Christian, but it does give me and our mutual friends a much-needed laugh from time to time.
I think she may have figured him out by now, anyway. It’s amazing how someone can look too good to be true, and then actually turn out to be no bargain at all. He was her choice; she asked him out …
?
I swear to God, you (ChumpLady/Tracy) MUST have a psychic vibe on what I go through each day…Each day I come here to ChumpNation and get EXACTLY what I’ve been thinking/feeling/stressing over!!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>I’m still on the side of no contact and practicing meh. You can’t save everyone — and that impulse I had to yell RUN! FLOWER GIRL RUN! I channel into this blog every day. Maybe I can save a few other chumps. On the other hand, not telling the next one also goes against my golden rule about telling in general — wouldn’t YOU want to know if you were being chumped?<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>Unless this person is a pedophile or has some other sort of criminal record, I’d probably leave it alone. You don’t know if your ex is currently cheating on them. (Or maybe you do?) And you have a vested interest to protect your own sanity and maintain no contact. Also, if you have kids together you don’t want to do anything that could be construed as harassment toward your ex.<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>I knew I wouldn’t be believed. He’d gotten to the narrative first. I’d be the crazy ex-wife. (Maybe I’d lead with that. I’d played this scenario out in my head many times, “I know you’re going to think I’m the Crazy Ex-Wife, but I think you should know something…”) Explaining my sudden departure, he had already told my former neighbors that I cheated on him. (He told me the same story about his ex-wives — they cheated on him. The one I spoke to thought that was hysterical.).<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>And finally — this person is your EX. Would you want your ex to talk to whomever YOU are dating and “warn” them? How is anyone to know who is really a batshit crazy, character assassinating wing nut and who is telling the truth? They don’t (unless you present them with proof). So they’re going to weigh on the side of Sparkles McGee.<<<<< TRUE!!! Fortunately for me, just about all of the people that were in my life when we were together are all on MY team— they NEVER liked him, they always thought he was a piece of shit liar, thief, scum-bag and are happy for me he's out of my life.
Thank you, Tracy!!!! Thank you for yet another post on what I needed to hear!!!
Also, I wanted to add that EXH#1 wasn’t as much of a narc as #2, but he had his moents…anyway, the truth of the matter is that in the last 13 1/2 – 14 since EXH#1 and I have been divorced, he has had 3 more wives since me – the longest last 5 years married, about 6 years together total, the shortest Easter – 4th of July in the same year, LITERALLY!!!!
And the recurring theme among all of the ex-girlfriends, ex-wives, ex-fiances (he has had a total of 8) was him declaring, “She’s crazy as hell!” Sure dude, it’s all them, right?!?!?! When/If I actually knew them and was in contact with them they said the same about him, so it’s whatever.
The reason I tell this is because #2 is following his M.O. to a T, so it won’t be long before the sparkles wear off and he goes trolling again- as long as he stays away from my pond, we’ll be fine.
I guess I’m curious. Prior to being a chump, if someone warned you that the person you’re dating is a cheater, what would you have done? My prior-chump self honestly doesn’t know what she would have done. Of course, today, I would run and never look back.
The final OW became cheater’s wife, so no need to warn her. She willingly chose garbage, so she gets to live in filth. If their marriage doesn’t work out and there’s another “victim”? If this person reaches out to me, I’d tell her the truth. If not, I can’t be bothered since this would drag the ex back into my life and that’s just plain gross. No contact is a promise I intend to keep to my worthy self.
A long, long time ago when I was married, one of my teammates and I were sitting out a rotation on the bleachers. She was sipping from her water bottle and said to me, “I don’t understand how a sweet person like you could be married to such an asshole.” YIKES, what a 2×4 smack upside my head! I can’t even remember how I responded to her remark. I think I sat in shocked silence though I knew she was referring to my husband’s over-the-top aggressive behavior on the ball court.
I NEVER forgot what she said.
Two or three years later, I left that unhappy marriage and this gal’s words were confirmation that I was doing the right thing by divorcing that controlling, bullying narcissist. Most of my circle of family and friends were very invested in us staying together as a couple. Husband was showy sparkly with most everyone except my shy sister-in-law. She got to see the REAL him because he was so mean to her (he and I would get into arguments over this). I had very little support or validation when I left my ex. I lost most of our mutual friends and had to stay away from my parents (they worried that ex would come slaughter our entire family because I left — I couldn’t deal with their paranoia, disapproval and shame over my failed marriage).
Dare to speak the truth (when it’s safe). People will hear it even if they don’t act upon it immediately. It may give them strength later on, when they’re ready.
I really like these points, NarcFreeZone. I also remember a few comments and one letter from people who had the courage to speak the truth to me in a nonjudgmental way long before I was ready to hear it. The comments and letter remained as anchors for me years later when I had so little self-confidence and so much fear about leaving. I think truth given with kindness is not wasted–even if it is not heard for a very long time.
I wouldn’t tell an AP. But I might tell a new Chump-Victim just a few sentences: “Hi, we haven’t met, but I am EX’s former wife/husband. He/she cheated on me, and that is what ruined our marriage. I think he/she will cheat on you. I know you want to believe the best of him/her, but you are being conned. Don’t be a victim like I was. If you aren’t willing to leave the relationship now, then all I can tell you is to protect yourself, your assets, and pay attention so that when he/she betrays you, it will be easier for you to put your life back together than it was for me. I won’t bother you again. Good luck.”
This post reminded me of Christie Brinkley warning her ex’s second wife (not the AP) of his philandering ways, and the wife was furious with her. Eventually, it happened to her, too, and she apologized to Christie Brinkley. Christie Brinkley had said to her “When you find out he’s been cheating on you, I’ll be here for you.”
http://pagesix.com/2014/10/31/peter-cooks-ex-apologizes-to-brinkley-for-ignoring-warnings/
May I just say, Who in the fuck cheats on Christi Brinkley?? Seriously, she is gorgeous. But then so are a lot if chumps. But, again, seriously.
You really can’t help stupid. x leaves me for one ho-worker and then ends up living with another ho-worker.
All I can say is that I’m pretty damn sure that this “final” OW knew what his history was, as she worked with x and schmoopie and even “original” schmoopie before that (unfortunately, in the x’s purging phase, he apologized for “all the other girls “that these two schmoopies may not know about). So really I don’t think that i would owe anything to current schmoopie at all. She may or may not have known that x was still married when she got together with him. But really, my x is not such a prize that needed to be snapped up, unless you are a low life, feel sorry for myself at all possible times “men”.
The only time I’d inform someone, would be if I had to personally interact with that particular person – and if they were NOT an OW. But I would be doing it with iron-clad evidence – because words are not enough.
Otherwise, I’d probably be too distant to the situation because I don’t give a fuck what my cheater ex’s are doing now.
If its an OW though, they deserve death by a 1000 cuts, so they can go fuck themselves with a red-hot poker. They didn’t give two shits about causing grief to others – so they can suffer with grief when someone decides to fuck them over.
CL – back then, you had a young child to look after and since your nutter-EH threatened to burn down your house, you made the sane choice to not approach that girl (although I’d feel conflicted too).
Sure, I’d want to be warned about the guy I was dating or marrying, but not everyone wants to know or believe the truth. I can’t assume other people think like me. If the unsuspecting victim was someone I knew personally, it would be easy for me to tell her since I’d have more credibility as a friend. With people I don’t know, I think it’s better to wait to be approached so I’m not imposing anything on them.
Great post. Your timing is uncanny. I’ve been up all night trying to think of a solution. The ‘woman’ in question, only one of his marks, is privy to all of my personal and financial info. I just found out, sick to my stomach. How long has she worked there, seen and talked to me? My ‘husband’s hometown’ fear come to life. I knew her name, but not what she looked like until the other day. Our divorce has just begun, already appeals and contempt. I’ve been, and am, completely vulnerable. OMG.
Sadly, it seems like most of us didn’t want to hear and did not listen or heed the warnings. My ex married one of his AP’s so no one to inform there. And I think approaching a replacement just invites too many problems: plays into the “my ex is crazy” narrative, invites the overzealous to claim harassment or worse, violates meh, enrages the narcissist/sociopath and places us back in his/her crosshairs. But if someone called me to ask what happened with my ex, then I would tell her. Even then, they usually will somehow convince themselves to stay–after all didn’t we?
Yes, there is little point to warning the new chump. In my case, the OW worked so hard to “win over” my ex, enjoy 7 weeks of cheating with him, and moved into his house before the dust had settled from my departure. So, I feel like she’s earned the experience she’s getting.
After I found out about my XH affair, I told him he would never be back in my life again, so 8 months into the split I found out he had a phone with 7 O/W on it. 3 were his friend’s X Wives (who I knew well-been to their weddings) , 1 was a good friends wife, 2 were slutty barmaids (he is a alcoholic) and 1 I didn’t know. I was gob smacked at this, as a few days previous he was asking me back!!!! I did tell his friend about his wife but he is the same as my X probably got off on it, best thing is my X said he couldn’t stand these women when we were together. I did contact the ones that I knew and told them what I thought of them and guess what they hadn’t done anything, they were trying to help him with his addictions (more like off with his boxers). Of course I was a nutter etc!!! No I am not am decent with morals they are not. I did try and warn the one I did not know but she didn’t believe me, he treated her terrible. What I find alarming is these women knew me and did not care. The original OW he stopped seeing her as soon as I found out because she mean’t nothing to him. Its hard to take in just how messed up my X. I now know he did it for 23 years and I still get angry about it but I am sad for my kids that I picked a piece of scum to be their father.
Really timely. Came at just the right time. Thanks for stopping any urge to act crazy. ‘Ex – stay out of his life’. Thanks, CL!
31 yrs ago, I was the youngish flower girl planting bulbs in the front yard of the boyfriend that I eventually married. I remember where in the yard I was kneeling when he surprisingly drove up with the girlfriend that he had previously been dating and the awkwardness of him explaining why she was coming over as we were exclusively dating. How bizarre, I remember it was a cool autumn day. The part I sure can’t recall was his explanation as to what they were up to. Whatever he said, I bought it even though there was a faint whisper to myself of “run flower girl, RUN!”
Well when my STBX revealed to me that he cheated on me with his MOW, (She was the STBX husband’s office manager) I did the pick me dance but called the MOW’s husband to tell him that his wife and my husband were having an affair. I told him I was contacting him because he had a right to know. Unfortunately, MOW answered the phone so she knew I was contacting her husband. Her husband denied it and said that his wife would never cheat on him because they didn’t’ have ‘that’ kind of a relationship! So she succeeded in gas lighting her husband into believing that she had left her job with my STBX because she had been ‘sexually harassed’ on the job. MOW’s husband bought her bull shit, stayed married to her and continued to raise her two kids from her 1st marriage like his own. Fast forward 10 years later. She filed for divorce from her husband when her kids were grown but asked for her husband to pay for the daughter’s loan for her cake decorating school! Yes, He was a chump and so was I for staying married and chasing unicorns. He was in complete denial but I was stupid to stay married to STBX and then get chumled financially BIG time!
Unfortunately contacting the OW (or her successor) is truly pointless. Remember the cheater is the first one to the narrative. He has invented some sort of narrative where you are the bad guy rather than the victim of psychological abuse in order to justify his abandonment and betrayal of his family. In my case xH claimed (behind my back) that I was unfaithful. I was a saint for our entire marriage, patient, kind, affectionate, faithful and generous and as a reward I have had my reputation stained with my kids, my in laws, my friends and the OW. This is not unusual for cheaters, they specialize in character assassination.
If you go to the OW and try to warn her, she will simply not believe you. Not her schmoopie. You are the crazy wife he warned her about. She has a lot invested in believing his narrative. Otherwise she would have to think she has done something wrong. Adultery, destroying a family, deceit, dishonesty? Not a problem, as long as she thinks you are a bad person then she has nothing to feel bad about. She has “rescued” him from a “bad marriage” If she were to admit you are a normal person with a kind heart then she might have to feel bad about what she has done.
Omg do you know me? This is so true! Same thing here….
I relate to this in so many ways. I am dying to tell her but I’m afraid I’d be perceived as the crazy ex. Do any of you worry about the lies they spin?