Should You Warn the Next One?

warningAbout a year after my divorce from the cheater, I was driving past my old house. (Not an uncommon occurrence as it was on a main thoroughfare…) And I saw a young-ish woman working in my former garden, planting flowers and pulling weeds. It was a beautiful sunny day and I looked in the driveway — and didn’t see his car.

There she was — the new chump.

Doing the yard work, investing herself in this Grand Home of Potential, getting muddy — and he was absent.

I knew the scenario very, very well. I had been that weed-pulling, chump laborer myself once. He’s “at work” and she’s there believing everything is fine in her world. Hostas or day lilies? Annuals or perennials?

I felt a desperate urge to pull the car over and shake her.

RUN LITTLE FLOWER GIRL! RUN!!!

Tell her that he’s been divorced at least three times for being a serial cheater. That he has a double life that spans decades. That he’s abusive. That’s he’s a gun nut, and check the wheel hub of his BMW for that hand gun. That he’s got a long-term OW and here is her name and number.

But I didn’t do it. I kept driving.

Was I a coward or was I being sensible?

I knew I wouldn’t be believed. He’d gotten to the narrative first. I’d be the crazy ex-wife. (Maybe I’d lead with that. I’d played this scenario out in my head many times, “I know you’re going to think I’m the Crazy Ex-Wife, but I think you should know something…”)  Explaining my sudden departure, he had already told my former neighbors that I cheated on him. (He told me the same story about his ex-wives — they cheated on him. The one I spoke to thought that was hysterical.)

But I had proof! Should I give her the hundreds of emails I saved, and my lawyer’s number, and the Other Woman’s number?

I didn’t do it. Because I weighed no contact with him over warning her.

That might be the right answer, but I’m not sure. A bunch of you aren’t sure either, because I get the same sort of question — Should I warn the new one?

I’m still on the side of no contact and practicing meh. You can’t save everyone — and that impulse I had to yell RUN! FLOWER GIRL RUN! I channel into this blog every day. Maybe I can save a few other chumps. On the other hand, not telling the next one also goes against my golden rule about telling in general — wouldn’t YOU want to know if you were being chumped?

Unless this person is a pedophile or has some other sort of criminal record, I’d probably leave it alone. You don’t know if your ex is currently cheating on them. (Or maybe you do?) And you have a vested interest to protect your own sanity and maintain no contact. Also, if you have kids together you don’t want to do anything that could be construed as harassment toward your ex.

And finally — this person is your EX. Would you want your ex to talk to whomever YOU are dating and “warn” them?  How is anyone to know who is really a batshit crazy, character assassinating wing nut and who is telling the truth? They don’t (unless you present them with proof). So they’re going to weigh on the side of Sparkles McGee.

I drove past the Flower Girl. But I still wonder about her. I hope she got out okay.

Subscribe
Notify of

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

227 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Anita
Anita
8 years ago

I think you did the right thing. It was sensible. She would not believe you anyway. No need to stir that pot with the ex.

fbi
fbi
8 years ago
Reply to  Anita

(Could someone read this and give me their opinion, please!!!)Hi Anita I don’t think it’s about being sensible, I think it’s about doing the right thing. Even if the poor little flower girl did not at first believe, at least you have sown the seed of doubt. I hate injustice and would have loved for someone to confirm that my instincts were right about my ex. Here is my story on today’s subject: I had installed a phone conversation recorder on ex’s cell. I heard that he and a friend were heading to some slut’s house to have a fun jacuzzi party with her friends. My ex had no luck since his slut was too drunk and coked up to do anything other than puke while his friend got lucky in the other room. I felt his wife needed to know this. Just for the record his wife was a real bitch and did not like me but I still felt she needed to know. So since we were not on speaking terms, I got a fake number and texted her the salacious details. A year went by and I heard their marriage was on the rocks, he told my ex they are living separate lives, they don’t engage in sex, she was so angry at him that she unleashed her wrath on him. He is currently considering divorcing her because of the tension at home. However, when the tables were turned and I called her last year (out of desperation) after my ex and her husband went out because I wanted to verify the time they came back home, since something was fishy, BUT she totally shut me down. She said she “didn’t want to be involved in drama”!!! She never gave me an answer and on top of it all she ratted me out and told her husband, who then told my ex!!! My ex said I looked crazy and paranoid for having asked her… I was sooooo crestfallen and hurt. This was one of my lowest point. I pleaded and asked him “what were you doing on your birthday night out”…and he blurted out “I have to stop fucking lil bitches”!!! I was like “HA then you admit to it”, But sadly noooo, he shrugged it off and said he “did not mean that and not to take it as a fact”!!! I m actually not with him anymore because of how I suffered. Can someone analyze this situation and give me a third party opinion because I could not wrap my head around such things. Yes I am naive and I was soo in love with this person and could not fanthom how some one could do me so wrong if they loved me???

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  fbi

FBI: First, the wife of your H’s cheating buddy is not your friend. Avoid her. She sounds like a disaster (but I applaud you for letting her know that her H is cheater, and your technique for doing so. You did the right thing, and she obviously acted on it. Well-done).

As for your H’s speech slip, Jayne (below) is right that this counts as a “Freudian slip.” Now, no one believes Freud’s explanations for Freudian slips anymore, but it is very clear that things we are thinking can intrude into our speech. Your X’s expostulation that he has “to stop fucking lil bitches!” is an indication that he did, indeed, fuck little bitches. That, coupled with his lack of empathy for your feelings, screams, GET OUT AND STAY OUT. I know this is hard, I know it requires tremendous effort to leave a multi-year relationship, I know the pain seems bottomless. But it’s not infinite.

If you have left him, you’ve taken the first step. Keep coming back here (and head to the forums) for support. I have a CL email if you want to say anything privately: tempest.ariel2014@gmail.com

fbi
fbi
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Oops cl sorry didn’t realize there was a forum!

fbi
fbi
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Thank you tempest, ca gal and Arnold for your advice! I really need support because his gaslighting kept me in that relationship way too long. I thought that if you loved someone you shouldn’t keep the truth from them. This was not the case for him since he is a very selfish person. He didn’t care that his lies were hurting me. I had my suspicions and then gathered proof so now I know he is not the one for me and it’s ok!!! :)). I just go through the mental inventory of things he said and did in order to stick to my guns: no contact!
So therefore it does mean a lot that you affirm that his comment was indeed a Freudian slip….thank u again my cyber friends!

CAGal
CAGal
8 years ago
Reply to  fbi

A few thoughts:

1) The bit about the other Chump is not really part of your story. Some people don’t do drama. It sounds as if you two are not close and it does not sound as if she is a particularly warm and empathetic person. When we are hurting so much, we cast about for any nugget of humanity, honesty and caring. This woman is not really obligated to give that to you. If I were in her shoes, I would probably say something similar – I’m sorry you are upset but your really need to discuss this with your husband. I have no interest in getting the middle of marriage drama of a casual acquaintance. Sort of like if you need to ask, don’t you already have your answer.

2) Of course he lied to you about the birthday. He lies to you about everything. Classic Gaslighting is to say one thing one second, then deny it the next. I can never decide if they do it on purpose (like in the movie) or if their brains are just so disordered that they genuinely can’t process that they said something horrible/damaging/unkind/abusive 45 minutes ago and they stare at you blankly. Keep in mind these folks have no empathy so they don’t really process that there is a person actually responding to the things that they say. You wanting him to be accountable for saying something like “fucking lil bitches” is completely outside of his realm of understanding. Why would you have a response to things he said. You need to not be so sensitive. You know he’s cheating on you. What is there to discuss.

3) You seem really upset. I’m there with you sister. I’m neck deep in a fucked up situation myself. It’s hard. I think though, to people who are not so embedded in the utter chaos that is a relationship like this… we can get so mad/upset/worked up so fast that it makes us seem a little like a crazy person. Like day in day out I’m fine cracking jokes, doing my work, taking care of business and drinking with friends. But bring up the topic of my STBX and it becomes super obvious, super quickly that I am very emotional (I’m mostly mad) on the topic. When people don’t have all the history, it makes you seem like a crazy person to the average person who isn’t invested in the same way. I say this not to tell you to feel bad about being a fucking angry crazy person – cause yeah – these assholes will do it. But just remember that others around you view this stuff thru their own lens. I was posting on another board my thoughts and OW and you would have thought I suggested murdering puppies for saying that barring some very specific circumstances (i.e. complete lying by the Cheater), they have some culpability. It was like you could cherry pick thought the people who had been cheated on, and the people that were the cheaters trying to validate that nothing is black and white and blah blah blah.

Dump him, don’t make yourself crazy, don’t worry about anyone else (except your kids if needed) and live your best life.

BitterSweet
BitterSweet
6 years ago
Reply to  CAGal

So glad I found this post tonight and CAGal’s comment. I have been married for 23 years with 2 kids and kicked out my husband this week. I never heard the term gaslighting until this week when I looked up narcissism. Husband has cheated before but I never had actual proof and he would always talk his way out of it, turn it back on me, make me feel crazy, etc. I erred on the side of keeping family together and believing his apologies/explanations. I am a competent, sane, hard working and dependable person who raised my kids with half a husband and financially supported my household most of the time. I need to keep reminding myself of that because my confidence is shot. This time I found actual proof of his most recent affair. He took up with a single mother of two kids, told her he was divorced, took her and her kids on trips, spent money on them (which means I pay because he has very little income). I also have proof that the whole time during the relationship he was texting a (guy) friend the sexts and nude pics she would send him, and telling his friend that she is getting annoying because she is falling in love and that is not what he wants. Also have proof that at the same time he reached out to another previous affair victim. My kids are smart teenagers now and they are glad he is out but do I warn this new girlfriend? Do I show her these texts and emails? I am really trying not to turn into the bitter obsessed ex but it feels unkind not to warn her. Would sending her these things be construed as harassment?

Arnold
Arnold
8 years ago
Reply to  CAGal

Precisely. Well stated. Research the Cluster Bs , picking up fleas and fundamental attribution error.
Very insightful post.

Anita
Anita
8 years ago
Reply to  fbi

FBI, given the circumstances that this involves an ex, and the new gf has not solicited info from me, I stand by my comment and wouldn’t contact her. The info is out there that he’s a cheater, so I imagine she would already have her doubts. The important thing is that the info is public knowledge, available, etc.

Arnold
Arnold
8 years ago
Reply to  Anita

First, understanding the disordered is near impossibe ( well, maybe you can understand them, but you need to completely disregard normal logic and values.).
Simplest way to understand , IMO, is to just accept that there are monsters among

us who wear masks during courtship.
As far as telling the young woman, it may be futile ,but I would give it a try. As this guy, gradually, reveals what he is, the seeds you have sown may expedite her fleeing.
If she ignores you jow, the seeds are still planted and you lose nothing.

RefusesToBeStupid
RefusesToBeStupid
8 years ago

I had a narc trying to pull me into his skein. I warned his wife and he blamed me. Of course she believes him. It was futile, would I take it back, no because he is on a very short leash now and is being watched. She is still playing marriage police and he is leaving me alone!

Kimberly
Kimberly
8 years ago

Refuses – good for you!

Stayin Strong
Stayin Strong
8 years ago

I think you did the right thing by not saying anything. Even if she listened to you she will think that it won’t happen to her. Because at this point he has painted you and the others as crazy and he is misunderstood, just wanting a good woman to love him. She feels special, important. And special, important people don’t get cheated on (well, until they do).

People hear what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe. She obviously has already bought his story. Nothing you could say will change that. Keep on driving.

RockStarWife
RockStarWife
8 years ago
Reply to  Stayin Strong

Stayin Strong,
I agree that things generally go the way you describe. However, I was informed of my partner’ (now ex-boyfriend’s, not my STBX’s) cheating–and I listened and immediately left that ‘partner.’ I will be eternally grateful to the woman who told me that that partner was chronically cheating on me, searching for other sexual partners/girlfriends through want ads. Really wish that at least one of the many people who knew my husband (now STBX) was running around would have told me long before I found out through STBX’s admission. My life, my children’s lives, and many other people’s lives may have turned out much better.

Tahitibound
Tahitibound
8 years ago
Reply to  RockStarWife

Amen!

Michele
Michele
8 years ago

There is a very Big difference (although the hurt is the same?) of a 1 time remorseful cheater after 20+ years of monogomy to a serial cheater.both garbage! But looks like he Never had any true emotions invested in any of his relationships. Don’t waste your time in him or anything or anyone in His world! You did the right thing!!

Arnold
Arnold
8 years ago
Reply to  Michele

There might be,Michelle. But my reading and many studies have shown that the overwhelming %of affairs go undetected, forever. So, if you know of one, most times there are others.
Same thing with “confessions”. Often, while appearing voluntary and motivated by guilt, they are often due to the cheater’s anticipation of impending discovery or being reported by a third party, like the other BS, or a friend or family member who has stumbled upon evidence.

MovingOn
MovingOn
8 years ago

I think I’d stay away just based on the fact that she would tattle to my ex, and then he’d be back in my life, sending me a poisonous email or attempting to ambush me on the phone. Now, if the new woman approached me and asked why we broke up, I wouldn’t have a problem talking to her, but I would never approach a new woman if my ex broke up with the Owife and found an innocent victim. Like the others said, she probably wouldn’t believe me anyway, so my effort would be wasted.

Divorce Minister
Divorce Minister
8 years ago

Yeah, I agree. Thought about warning my ex’s future clients (she’s a marriage therapist), but thought better of it. Not my monkeys.

Chumptitude
Chumptitude
8 years ago

How about sending the evidence to her Review/Licensure Board?

kb
kb
8 years ago
Reply to  Chumptitude

This may be applicable only if she’s made some sort of ethical violation, such as taking advantage of her clients’ vulnerability in order to have sex with them.

Divorce Minister
Divorce Minister
8 years ago
Reply to  kb

Yeah, it isn’t an ethics violation as long as the therapist avoids banging a client of client family member/friend.

Alzada
Alzada
8 years ago

I think an anonymous review would be appropriate. A cheater counseling married couples in trouble where one spouse may be cheating seems like a conflict of interest on her part. She can’t be impartial.

Buddy
Buddy
8 years ago
Reply to  Alzada

I’ve also seen studies and news articles that say that psychologists have higher than normal rates of suicide, depression, alcoholism and substance abuse. Not sure what that means, but I do think it is possible for a shrink to be a good, effective, skilled shrink even though the shrink has his or her own issues.

But yeah, I sure wouldn’t want a shrink or marriage counselor who was a cheater.

On the other hand, I’m pretty sure my marriage counselor didn’t seem like that type who’d cheat on his wife or experience mental problems, but he was quite neutral or excessively understanding to my wife’s infidelity. He was even a fan of Esther Perel. ick.

Carmella1722
Carmella1722
8 years ago

Although your case may be a little different DM. She’s counseling people in a professional capacity. Unbelievable. It’s like a rapist/gynecologist scenario. I know you can’t actually warn people, you’d be seen as crazy and maybe accused of harassment, but maybe an anonymous online review on a website that reviews therapists. That woman should not be practicing.

Much Better Off Now
Much Better Off Now
8 years ago

I didn’t reach out to the OW when they first got together- I figured she knew about me and didn’t care that he had been in a relationship. I did, however, contact her through FB (anonymously) about 2 years ago when douchebag was cheating on her. They have a child together (who was just a few months old at the time). I gave her details, she confirmed he was cheating. She stayed, so I’m done “reaching out”.

Mandie101
Mandie101
8 years ago

She is a chump like we were. He chose her for a reason. You know narcs like kind things too. We should not expect their new partners to run for the hills. What telling does is to plant a seed of doubt. But we all know that the cycle is such that they may not have started devaluation or if they have the new chump is rationalising. We see ourselves in the new chump but truth is most of us would not have run. Not because we did not believe the old chump but because we believe in second chances. If asked I would share otherwise I would not enter because we cannot make them see what we know. Experience was our teacher.

moxie
moxie
8 years ago
Reply to  Mandie101

No, she’s not a chump like the rest of us; she’s an OW first & foremost. She got a heads’ up as to what an insidious sneaky lying dirtbag he could be and took a chance that her magic va-jay jay would keep him honest.

She went into it much more well informed than those of us who got hit with a 2×4 out of the blue.

Arnold
Arnold
8 years ago
Reply to  moxie

Did I miss that she was the OW? IF THAT IS THE CASE, DO NOT BOTHER. I will re_ read, but I did not see that info.

accubonded
accubonded
8 years ago

You’re probably being sensible, I am still at a point where I want to blow up their lives. But that most likely isn’t the best course of action. If you had definitive proof he was cheating on her, and we all know he is, I would say DO IT, DO IT NOW! These fuckers don’t change, and any chance there is to hunt them I’m going to take it (with truth and proof being my weapons of choice for this particular hunt just do no one thinks I’m going more off the deep end than I already am)

startofsomethingood
startofsomethingood
8 years ago

I have often wondered about this. I have also thought about if EX broke up with OW and moved on to another sucker. Would I be more willing to accept the next woman because she didn’t actually help destroy my family. Her I might warn. But the original OW that he’s with that he cheated on me with? Nope. Besides I get more money for me and my daughter if they stay together.

Southamericanchump
Southamericanchump
8 years ago

Thank you CL for indirectly answering my letter. When I saw the title I thought it was mine, but I was glad to see that others have the same anxiety. I guess that´s what makes us chumps…we care about other people, especially if they may have to go through what we did and we can somehow prevent it.

I feel sorry for the lovely-new-girlfriend (who is not the OW) but I am hoping that she is great for my kids and serves as anger-management between their dad and them. I prefer a caring woman who has an interest in making my kids happy to an uncaring babysitter or leaving them alone when cheater-ex is responsible for them. When I meet her, I was thinking of saying something like (if we have a private moment) “if you ever feel that something is off in your relationship, you can talk to me about it because I know him more than anyone in the world after 20 years and two kids….” But if he she doesn´t contact me and he starts turning Jeckyl and Hyde on her and cheats, it is also what she has to live. She must be attracted to shiny guys because she is divorced from one, so maybe its the lesson she has to live.

And for some crazy synchronicity after I sent the letter to CL yesterday, I received an email from the OW saying she sends me blessings everyday and is sorry for the harm she caused my daughters and I (exactly two years after DDay). I think she is suffering because she was probably dumped by the cheater when he realized he could attract a younger, prettier, less experienced, unemployed woman without kids (great for narc control and absolute devotion from her).

Writing the letter to CL was therapeutical and receiving the OWs email, and CL´s answer today sent me back on the road to the land of Meh…Thank you!!

honeyandthehomewrecker
honeyandthehomewrecker
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

I am with Tracy on this one. I learned the hard way. After I played detective and found out who had been knowingly seeing my husband of 14 years for 5 months (and who didn’t care that we had a 1 and a 2 year old at home), I found her FB page. She was posting non-stop crazy-making things about how she’s a wounded-by-men victim who HATES cheaters and liars. Yet, my ex told me repeatedly not to ever bother contacting her because ‘she knew everything’. The two things didn’t add up. How could she know she’s with a cheating liar but HATE cheating liars? I concluded she’d been conned and knew nothing. She had kids. That made me feel a tiny sliver of compassion and so I was not…at ease with just letting Jack the Ripper sit down to their dinner table without at least trying to warn them.

I was still in PTSD/meltdown/sob-when-a-family-walks-by mode, and it was a horrific mistake. I found her number and sent her a text with some basics, and said she could call me to learn the whole truth. She did not. Instead, she went off on me on a FB rant with venomous, shitty, cruel taunts. She put a big fat cherry on top by posting ‘I pity you, get a life!’ with a Mr. T picture with the caption ‘I pity the fool’. I think the rage that created in me on behalf of myself and my tiny babies who were unceremoniously DUMPED without warning when he moved 2,000 miles away to live with her took 10 years off my life. I have never, nor do I ever want to again, feel that level of rage enter my body. Nothing is worth that. Especially not saving her undeserving-ass from a sociopathic narcissist who she so clearly deserves.

Not everyone will have this experience, but in the end, you expose yourself to the possibility of being dragged into a world of shit you did not expect. All cheaters lie and play the crazy ex-wife card, and HomeWreckers like this one will always be there to lap it up. No matter how many years we spend slaving/being faithful/sucking it up with a smile/birthing babies/cooking/cleaning or stink-tolerating, our loving-kindness is repaid with a kick in the junk. Screw them. They are crazy-making evil bastards. MAY THEY FIND WHAT IT IS THEY SEEK AND LEAVE US THE HELL ALONE.

JK
JK
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

CL – Would you please delete my post.I inadvertently pressed the submit button, and was trying to delete rather than submit. It is not really on topic, and It was not complete anyway. My apologies.

JK
JK
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

My ex-wife’s AP divorced his wife in 2011 shortly after a 4-5 year affair with my ex. I found out about the affair in 2014 and divorced my ex. I reviewed the AP’s divorce records during my divorce to see if the affair was the reason for the AP’s divorce, and to see if my ex was mentioned. to see if my ex and an affidavit of the AP’s daughter in support of her mother, indicating that she and her mom believed the AP had been having an affair during the time that he was in fact having an affair with my ex, but he denied it and the mom could not prove it during the divorce. The AP found a new love interest before his divorce was final.

It’s been five years since the AP’s divorce. I did not find out about the affair for three years after the divorce, so it was too late for the information to be of assistance to her in the divorce. Telling her now would validate her suspicion and make her aware of the real reason why her husband divorced her. The guy was having a long-term affair and deceived her for years which, like me, she suspected but could not prove.

Other Kat
Other Kat
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Interesting distinction about warning the OW/OM vs. the next innocent chump to come along. I ended up indirectly doing just that when STBX started love bombing a friend of a friend (also a chump) who knew all of the ugly details of my story. She asked my permission to share and I gave it. The new woman was savvy enough to be wary of the love bombing and by the time my friend had the opportunity to share my story with her, she had already dubbed STBX a “crazy stalker.” Nonetheless, she was very grateful for the information, relieved to learn that her gut was right, and went total NC on him, blocking his phone, email, and FB.

I was much further from Meh at the time and will admit feeling a sense of vindication that I helped his next target avoid any self-doubts that might have led her down the garden path and that STBX had the rug pulled out from under him so unexpectedly. I’ve since come to accept that I won’t be able to do the same with the next target (the new woman confirmed that he’s has gone to town with embellishing the “crazy-ass wife” story) and am happy to report that I’ve been strong enough with NC that I don’t even know if there is a next one. Though if one does ever approach me, I will be happy to share a few tidbits that might at least plant a seed of doubt.

NorthernLight
NorthernLight
8 years ago
Reply to  Other Kat

@Other Kat: This happened to me too! My ex started expressing interest in someone. Turns out, she is someone I know who vaguely knew my story, but she did not know who my ex is. Fortunately, she told one of her good friends about who she thought my ex was expressing interest in her, and that friend happens to be one of my friends. She knew the extended version of my story and who exactly my ex and the OW are, so my friend was able to pass on the info to the other person.

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago

Pretty sure my X’s latest victim was an AP during the marriage, whom he dumped to try and wreckoncile,and then wooed again when he determined I wasn’t going to wreckoncile with him.

If that’s true, she deserves him. Have at it.

kar marie
kar marie
8 years ago

Whore juice knew he was long term married. Didn’t care. So much fun being sneaky. Asswipe told her he most likely would cheat on her too. Didn’t care. She said she would be so perfect he’d never cheat on her. ( first three husbands did not so perfect).he cheats on her with one woman. Throws him out convinces him to come back. You see, cheating is a deal breaker for her! And now he’s cheating on her again! So this stupid bitch hooks up with a known cheater and expects him to be faithful. Four is the charm. The cheater should come with a warning label on their foreheads but it wouldn’t matter cause some woman are so full of themselves they “know” he wouldn’t dare cheat on them. Hah hah! You did the right thing. Let them find out themselves it is a horrible learning lesson but a lesson all the same. And the stupid bitch asswipe is with deserves all that’s coming to her! Let her suffer yet again. Wonder how she got her first three husbands. The ex is a liar and so is she. Fuckers.

Amiisfree
Amiisfree
8 years ago

When my ex was divorcing the first child he married after our divorce, she asked mutual friends to put her in touch with me so she could talk to me about it. I said no becaise, at the time, I thought it insane for her to ask ME to do something for HER, all.things considered. But a part of me felt bad.

Through later counseling, I learned about how my chumpy knee-jerk reaction is to think if anyone needs help I must respond and if anyone wants something from me I must deliver, and that is exactly why I am the perfect target for serial liars.

Yowch.

I think CL did the right thing letting it go. You can’t save the world. In fact, in many respects, you can’t even help the world unless you put that oxygen mask on your own face first.

Putting yourself in harm’s way to help another isn’t always as noble as it looks at first glance. You might be of far greater help to her and to garden girls everywhere when you are testifying in some super insane court case later than you could ever be while trying to convince her why she shouldn’t be in her garden. 🙂

AllOutofKibble
AllOutofKibble
8 years ago

I sent OW’s husband a short note, just letting him know his wife was cheating. I didn’t include the proof. It will be easy for him to find if he wants to look. Other than that yeah, I got the same thing. He told people I cheated on him and that’s why we divorced and that I already have a boyfriend. After what he did to me I doubt I will ever be able to trust a man again. It’s only been 8 months since d-day so I know I could change my mind on that but seriously, the bullshit mountain of lies just keeps getting bigger. I fear that if OW’s husband scratches the surface and is upset by her cheating that she will leave her affair behind and my x will turn his attention towards me again. For me it’s a safety issue not to press too hard.

Ali
Ali
8 years ago

Wow. This is exactly the dilemma I faced. And I decided, like you, to go for no contact rather than a warning that he would explain to her is a crazy, disordered ex speaking. I only know about her (the new woman) because he bragged to me about it, told me her name, etc. This week I finally blocked him and told him he can email me if he ever needs to communicate. Of course he doesn’t do that — no kibbles involved. Going no contact may seem hard, but I highly recommend it. Thank you for posting something so incredibly relevant to me and what I am going through now. Your posts are beautifully written and helpful to so many of us! By the way, like you, my cheater had his double life already in place for years before I started dating him. Very painful, that.

TheClip
TheClip
8 years ago

What could you possibly say that wouldnt get you thrown in jail for harassment or make you look like a loon? I think until more language about cheaters becomes mainstream you will be talking another language. I know I was clueless about Narcs and the cheater narrative until I was neck deep in the shit. You who come across like Brad Pitt in 12 Monkeys.
I had the pleasure of visiting my my ex SIL and her children. Tweeny ( the underage twit who is with my ex) has been asking about me. I guess even in her undeveloped prefrontal lobe things arent adding up. My ex SIL told her to call me. Said ‘ if you call her she will talk to you. She isnt this horrible person that Idiot has made her out to be but I think you are putting that together’ Ex SIl is equally afraid of Idiots rage so she keeps a comfortable distance from his life.
I think the OW deserves what she gets and the new chump? ….. Well nothing says you cant send her a copy of CL book … U know her address right?

Carmella1722
Carmella1722
8 years ago

Don’t worry CL, we’ll all tell her for you when she shows up here in about a year. Just post the letter you get from Brokenhearted Flowergirl. “Dear Chump Lady, he said his 3 ex-wives cheated on him….”

freedom
freedom
8 years ago

I have been struggling with this same issue. He has had a girlfriend for about 9 months now, not either of the other women. I know her, we worked together. He sends emails to me about loving me, missing me, love of his life, blah, blah, blah.

I got angry. Challenged him about his girlfriend, doesn’t he see he is betraying her, using her. He responds “I am not and you are just the type of person that would tell her”. Also,” this has nothing to do with her, it is about us”.

I have blocked another email address. For my own sanity.

I do wonder if I should forward those emails to her to warn her. He is going to hurt her, not if but when. I feel complicit. I also worry about poking the bear.

A friend said to me, sometimes there is doing the right thing and then there is doing the safe thing. For now I am not saying anything. I feel guilty though. I have information that would hurt her now but could save her from going through this hell.

Carmella1722
Carmella1722
8 years ago
Reply to  freedom

Except that you’d be warning her about what he’s doing now, not just what he did in the past. Any way you could run it through the rumor mill? Let the gossip mongers get the word out that he’s contacting you?

freedom
freedom
8 years ago
Reply to  Carmella1722

I have told his brother in law but I honestly doubt he will say anything. After all his family did not tell me the truth about his lies.

This is really bothering me. I wish there were a way to tell her without exposing myself. I used to minimize the abuse from x, he would never do that! Now I know I really don’t know how far he would go.

Peacechump
Peacechump
8 years ago

This exact issue still troubles me deeply. The part of me that wishes to protect others from harm wants to tell the lovely, sweet new girlfriend to run. To explain. To tell about the decades long problem with hookers and the possibility of her being exposed to stds as I was. To detail the heart break, lonliness, the despair, the pain, the betrayal, the many chances, the deceit, the absence, the lack of empathy, the unfinished work on the house, the unpaid bills, the power getting turned off, the massive debts. But I know she is allowed to see only the good stuff now. And likely only can see the good stuff. And he’s the victim since I left him after 18 years of bullshit and emotional harm. Because I moved on and began a relationship with one of our friends he can tell a sob story. She left me for so and so. He looks like the perfect victim. Aaarrrgggh. My therapist and I discussed warning the girlfriend as an ethical issue. Do I owe this woman a warning? We decided that as long as this woman is a grown adult making her own choices it is up to her to live her choices. This would include her assessment of his life and stories, and her discernment based on what she chooses to see. This also allows the possibility for change in the ex. Still, I like to treat others as I like to be treated and I wish I had known the depth of this man’s problems before deciding to marry and have kids together. I knew a few minor things but he hid the reality of his life extremely well, and I was a trusting and kind person who never doubted his stories and saw incompletely. As of today I do not feel totally ok with either telling or not telling. It is just one more sucky shit thing at the end of a long, sad list.

nomar
nomar
8 years ago

My cheating ex-wife married an affair partner, coaxed him away from his wife and two small children to move cross-country to be with her. So, no warning necessary. Those two know exactly what they’re getting in each other, and it’s exactly what they deserve.

As the kids these days say, “Suh-WEET.”

Get Out Yo Seat and Chump Around
Get Out Yo Seat and Chump Around
8 years ago

CL, if you had been warned before you married the cheater, then there’d be no Chump Nation.

Perish the thought.

Maree
Maree
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Don’t take this the wrong way CL, but I am glad you did take one for the team. You were meant to make your mark in this world in some capacity and what an impact you have made on so many lives. Thank you, thank you. 🙂

ChumpyKindofLove
ChumpyKindofLove
8 years ago

I would not say anything because then I’d be afraid he’s come around and tell any new person in my life that _I_ was the Cheater. A bunch of you here said your Cheater tried to tell people it was YOU. My desire to “Save the next victim” is outweighed by me not wanting to get dragged down too. And there is a large possibility that the new one was one of the ones he cheated with so then I REALLY wouldn’t lift a finger to help of advise her.

Sad in Seattle
Sad in Seattle
8 years ago

It’s a no-win situation. Warn the new partner and you’re feeding into the “crazy ex” narrative. Say nothing and the new victim is left twisting in the wind, eventually wondering what they did so wrong to precipitate the narc’s inevitable behaviour, of course until they discover the truth themselves the hard way… Just like we did.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
8 years ago

In most cases, I think the Chump needs to stay out of it, if only to maintain no contact and get on with their lives. It’s not because you don’t care if an innocent person gets screwed over, but that you have to maintain your own sanity. That takes priority.

Now if at some point, said innocent person reached out to the Chump and asked for some information, I wouldn’t hesitate to give it to them. We’re not talking about the AP the cheaters end up with people, we’re talking about some new person completely out of the loop of the bullshit.

I’m quite chummy with the Xwife of my first husband. She came around after me. She was pretty shy around me for years but very sweet to my kid so, I was always nice to her. Hell, she never did anything to me.

Then she began sheepishly calling me asking my opinion on things. I’ll never forget she said, “Can I ask you something? Do you think XXX will ever get and keep a job?” The more we talked we found out the same stories he used to tell me about one of his X’s, he told her about me. He just recycled his spiel over and over again.

Now her and I are buddies forever. 🙂

Off the crazy train
Off the crazy train
8 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

I really like this story. Leave a cheater, gain a friend. Something good to come out of something bad. 🙂

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
8 years ago

Added bonus, both her and I have kids by him. We’ve shared holidays together (minus the X because he’s not really all that involved with the kids.) She’s like a second mom to my kid and me to hers. It’s a very nice ending to what was awkward for a lot of years. Don’t think that would have been possible if cheating was somehow at play with all of us so, we got lucky there.

LIningUpDucks
LIningUpDucks
8 years ago

Considering that your ex has been known to pul a gun on you, it’s probably best you just kept on driving. It’s not worth risking his wrath.

On the other hand, I completely understand your urge to tell the unsuspecting chump. Maybe send an anonymous letter (there are companies online who will do this for you). She probably won’t believe it but maybe it will plant a seed in her mind and it might help her later.

Datdamwuf
Datdamwuf
8 years ago
Reply to  LIningUpDucks

You might be mixing up Tracy with me, my ex pulled a gun. But, he didn’t have guns lying around prior to that year.

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Well, gee, he’s safe then ; )

LIningUpDucks
LIningUpDucks
8 years ago
Reply to  Tracy Schorn

Yeah, that whole house-burning-down thing. Best to not re-engage that one. Scorched-earth threats tend to disrupt meh, something you’ve worked very hard to achieve.

valkyriemad123
valkyriemad123
8 years ago

To Whom It Concerns (Use Name when possible)

Re: ___________________________(Name of individual/sexual perpetrator)

Perhaps you already know or have suspected what this letter concerns. You may also have no idea at all and this information will come as a shock. In any case it is vital that we reach out to you, as there are implications for your health and the health and well being of your family.

Your partner has been sexually and emotionally deceptive while conducting a secret parallel sexual life and one that you may be completely unaware of. The other person is __________________________(name of other partners if known)

This is an anonymous letter for the partners of people who commit sexual and emotional deceit. We hold all those people who willfully perpetrate and justify their compulsive sexual secrecy and behavior accountable to those to whom they have pledged fidelity.

Since it is a known fact that most people who commit infidelity do so without practicing safe sex submitting unaware victims to exposure to STD’S. We feel it is our duty to warn and allow you to protect yourself from this reckless behavior. We regard this as a human rights issue and a form of domestic abuse by stealth.

Our sole purpose is to level the playing field with the knowledge of what is going on so that you can make informed decisions for your own life and that of your family.

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago
Reply to  valkyriemad123

Ohana found some site that allows you to send an anonymous email that the person might have been exposed to an STD.

Ohana??

Ohana
Ohana
8 years ago
Reply to  Tempest

Hi Tempest, busy week, just saw this. There are a bunch of places to send an anonymous STD warning. Just Google and they’ll come up.

I used inSPOT.org
It allowed me to personalize the message, which was important in my case as I was warning a suspected AP I’d learned was pregnant.
As a bizarre bonus, their message is sent as an e-card, complete with a cartoon. I chose something like “I got screwed, you might too…”

It might work to warn a chump but you need to have contact info (email, mobile #).

donna
donna
8 years ago
Reply to  valkyriemad123

Valky

You brought uo a good point regarding STD’S. I have evidence of him getting tested for HIV within weeks of DDay. I was fortunate it was treatable. That was the biggest deal breaker and forced me to open my eyes. He was sleeping with multiple women.

Sending an annonomous letter is risky. I believe our lack of any kind of a relationship with them speaks volumes. You would think a man who spent a lifetime with a partner (41 years) and raised three children together would at least be able to acknowledge each other at public events. I’m holding my ground and will never smile at him or say hello.
This would be a huge red flag if I was dating someone. My therapist was accurate when he said he couldn’t get anyone intelligent or attractive.

Chump Change
Chump Change
8 years ago
Reply to  donna

Donna, I believe you and I are marching a very similar path, we are the same age and both married the same length of time, both discovered waaaaay to late that we bred with lying, serial cheating narcississtic sociopaths. (Wow, I never would have imagined I would ever be in the position to be writing a sentence like that) I would love to speak with you sometime. Is there a CL appropriate way to reach out in friendship to a follow Chump?

Mandie101
Mandie101
8 years ago
Reply to  donna

Was on Reddit adultery page. Alot of these people harp about dead bedroom and harbour lots of resw resentment for their spouses. What I noticed was that some of them after having been busted cheating seem appalled that their partners were not as gung ho about a relationship with them. They talk about their unsuspecting partners as if they are shit and glorify their affair partners. I find the narrative all about their wants and desires. They want to feel special . they partners physical appearance is over emphasised. They admit to feeling no guilt. They acknowledge the risk they take in getting caught. Some say they are even addicted to having partners and those who end it are looking for another. They don’t give a shit about their spouses and say as much. Yet I. Their minds they are awesome. I could not even follow that kind of fucked up thinking along with the rationale. While some describe situations like ours minus cheating none of them convey any care or regard for their partners. It is all about them. Very me me me. Even in referencing children. I am disturbed at how disordered these people are. Worst of all alot of them believe that there is some kind of integrity to be salvaged from the sordid lives they lead. They are willing to blow up their lives and those of others literally for sex. Wow. Inside their heads is so fucked up that there is no other way but out of the relationship. Ironically they loathe kindness shown by devoted clueless partner.

Anita
Anita
8 years ago
Reply to  Mandie101

Mandie 101, the cheaters just want somebody to screw and they are too cheap to pay for prostitutes. Ergo, the popularity of the Affair Partner. No commitment, sleazy, easy free sex. Almost all these tramps are big foreheaded skags. They aren’t better than the spouse, just cheaper. Can you tell I don’t like whores?

Mandie101
Mandie101
8 years ago
Reply to  Anita

Lol! I am picking up a strong dislike. Some claim to have fallen in love with the ap yet are not leaving the feathered nest. Most of those who said they have are not with ap but claim to be happy to be free to….fuck around. Cause they had these god awful dysfunctional relationships and if only they could find that one perfect genitalia ideally attached to a hot body that possess none of the million and one flaws that their spouses possess. They never fully get what they deserve. What they deserve is exactly what they meted out. And since there is no point in waiting for that then lick our chumpy wounds and go. Having read all the trash there combiny with cl I realize that they are just not my kind of people nor am I theirs. Cool. Just don’t waste my fucking time pretending that you are. These shit heads can’t even process when their selfishness causes us to pull away. When their dick headed behavior has consequences in the relationship. I hated how my srbx would say some uncalled for mean thing then within minutes approach me expecting me to want to be affectionate. That is not how you fucking got me to sleep with you…by being an ass. But now you can be an ass all day and I must still be receptive. He was asking me to open up to him during what became shit ssx after the second d day but he was still carrying on with her and flirting with others. They think that they alone want sex. Difference is they don’t seem to care if the trust is there or not. I blame myself for staying. I think cheating is a strike one offence. Chump lady is very right on this. Turns out he has always been a cheat.

Carrie
Carrie
8 years ago

I did not let the OW know that my ex hubs was a serial cheater and that he cheated on her several times. She was a cheater too cheating on her husband with mine. I thought they should have at each other. I did try to locate her husband and let him know what his wife was doing behind his back but was not able to reach him. The OW and my ex are still together but she never lets him out of her sight for long

Lulu
Lulu
8 years ago

If a current SO of my ex sought me out regarding our history and asking my genuine opinion, I would be happy to oblige her.

But proactively approaching his chump out of the blue completely flies in the face of MEH. My days of being the hypotenuse are OVER; I have no desire to be a player in the drama of his life.

Besides, if one of his exes showed up and warned me about him (and his crazy family) early in our relationship, I would’ve thought she was just jealous or crazy. Or if I did believe what she said, I would probably gloat about how he’s changed and how I’m such a special snowflake that sure he will be different for me.

Informal
Informal
8 years ago

I would follow the advice of the Institute for Relational Harm Reduction Blog Talk Radio which suggests getting yourself healthy and educated in case she ever calls out to you. At that point you can educate her/him with facts concerning a relationship with a disordered person as opposed to bashing her partner. She can plug her experiences in and make her her/his conclusions.

Chumptitude
Chumptitude
8 years ago
Reply to  Informal

I was about to mention that radio show Informal, great content by Sandra Brown. Here is the link – http://www.blogtalkradio.com/relational-harm-reduction/2014/10/24/after-a-pathological-love-relationship-hes-moved-on-and-is-with-someone-new

AllOutofKibble
AllOutofKibble
8 years ago
Reply to  Chumptitude

Best use of my lunch break in a long time

NCStevie
NCStevie
8 years ago

X-holes “go to” excuse for his failed relationships/marriages is “she threw me away, she didn’t want me anymore, everyone throws me away.” He FORGETS the part where that happened AFTER he gets caught wetting his willy elsewhere.

He is still seeing OWhore, I warned her hubby about X-hole and what she was tangling with…he relayed the info and her response was (text to X-hole) “As I told you before, she is NOT going to run me off” and she proceeded to assist with the destruction of my family and my son’s existence. Can’t possibly wish enough misery and karma on that bitch! I can’t wait until she gets fucked over so i can send her flowers with a card that says “Thank you for setting me free and TOLD YA SO!! Bwahahahaha!”

In my opinion, it’s doubtful that anyone would believe our warnings anyway because you have to live this shit to believe it or understand it. It took me 7 years to call his ex-wife and ask her if we could talk. Once the shit hit the fan she is the one who helped keep me grounded, he had already done it to her so she was able to tell me what to expect, what he was capable of. She just kept telling me “it’s not you” and “he’s not going to do the right thing”. I value her friendship, we still talk regularly and go out to have a few beers and dance.

As for him and his sparkly troll….I derive great pleasure knowing that she is being fooled. I also derive great pleasure knowing that being with her isn’t making him any better, actually worse. He continues pathologically avoiding ANY thing that makes him uncomfortable, this includes bill collectors, the law, the IRS and the karma bus is closing in rather quickly. Idiot will spend any amount of money (that should go to bills/child support) on anything that makes him feel better and distracts him from the truth of his eternal dissatisfaction and what a disordered asshole he really is.

donna
donna
8 years ago

Cheaters love to control the narrative during the discard and throughout the divorce. The whore knows he is a serial cheating asshole because he was MARRIED when she got involved. He bragged about the slunT NOT caring.
Now I control the narrative by letting others know where he lives and how he abandoned his family for a crack whore he picked up at a casino bar.

Just yesterday I was sitting next to a man who is in the same field and let him know he no longer cared about his business due to his alcohol and drug use. The Limited lives too far away to maintain his accounts. He wasn’t surprised because he had heard people were dropping him. I let him know I was supporting two households and my son while he sits at a casino getting drunk,nightly with a drug addict.
I said this calmly and let him know my life is so much better since I divorced him.

Cheaters EARN their reputation. Once we are out of the picture we no longer have to police the assholes. I am tempted to give the whore the names of the other women he has on the sidelines. Why? I’ve realized he’s already lost everything. I no longer have that chaos in my life. Whomever he hooks up with will eventually smell his rotting flesh.

Anita
Anita
8 years ago

Regarding the ex, anyone he dates/marries/etc is fine, as long as it’s not the slimy whore he cheated with. I know too many bad things about this slut for her to be around my daughter. I stayed with him long enough for him to lose interest in her but if she ever comes slinking her nasty ass around again, let’s just say her secrets are no longer safe with me. Right or wrong, I specifically listened to garbage abut this skank for that exact purpose.

One thing I never do myself is date friends’ exes. I know some people do but it’s just too weird. Lucky I live in a fairly big city so it’s not an issue.

Lucky
Lucky
8 years ago

“No good deed goes unpunished”

Boudica Reborn
Boudica Reborn
8 years ago
Reply to  Lucky

Sandra Brown’s website offers, IMO, some sound advice against warning your ex’s new target:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/relational-harm-reduction/2014/10/24/after-a-pathological-love-relationship-hes-moved-on-and-is-with-someone-new

I may be stating the obvious, but I am becoming increasingly convinced that serial cheaters are somewhere on the spectrum of Cluster B Disorders. For the newly chumped, such information may provide you some comfort. Meanwhile, chances are that your ex or STBX has already whipped up a big, crappy batch of confirmation bias – aka painting you as the crazy partner or ex-partner/spouse. So, any contact and advice to the new target will be filtered through that pre-formed opinion.

It can be tempting though. A few months ago I received a “view” on my LinkedIn profile from someone who was not at all related to my profession or skill set. She was a nurse, and wasn’t savvy enough to check out my profile anonymously, so I got her name, photo, etc. When I saw her, I instinctually knew – here’s his newest chump. And yes, I did ponder sending her a message – something like “I know why you’re visiting my profile, and I just want to say that I understand your curiosity. However, please be very careful about what you’re thinking of getting yourself into. I don’t know what you’ve been told, but there’s ALWAYS more to the story”.

I was well on the road to Meh by then, and was eager to continue the journey, so I decided not to initiate the opportunity of a discussion. Now if one of his targets initiated contact and wanted to talk with me, I would consider it. I could discuss it dispassionately, and, if it was requested and I felt it was safe to share, I could offer a mountain of hard evidence.

Paintwidow
Paintwidow
8 years ago

I got an angry call one day from the affair partner now new life partner regarding something else.
After she stopped ranting and took a breath I proceeded to say ” look…..you must be seeing some of the signs by now. If the hairs on the back of your neck are standing up and you can’t really figure out why you need to listen!!” I then proceeded to tell her that I wasn’t the devil and I had 86 text messages from him asking to hook up with me on the DL after he left me for her. When confronted, he told her he only offered sex to me to get me to settle the divorce, so I would think he still cared about me.
She’s still with him and has told him he can never speak to me again unless she’s present or listening. She now has my old life……a life watching your back. I hope she enjoys being the marriage police, she can work that shift now.
You can’t warn them, they have to find out the hard way.

CalamityJane
CalamityJane
8 years ago

I would make her a member of the Book of the Month Club with Tracy Schorn’s Leave a Cheater…. as the first selection.

I have Chump Lady business cards for this very occasion of, “What should I do?”. I don’t have to say a word just hand them the card and leave.

I think it is a public service, if we have the opportunity, to inform the unsuspecting of possible danger. More so if the ex preferred the company of sex slaves.

For the record, I don’t consider the OW/OM unsuspecting.

tahitibound
tahitibound
8 years ago

I am I the only one who feels that t is ok to let the new partner know? I had a friend call the OW when he got back together with her after I kicked him out, and tell her who he really is. All the cheating, lying, and callous disregard for his family. Of course the OW didn’t say a thing and I was warned by STBX’s attorney to stop the harassament, even though there was no proof it was me.

I just feel that I would want to know who I am dating. When I get back to dating I believe I would like to speak to the new guys X. I mean what a treasure chest of knowledge they have that I would not be able to glean after a few months of dating a guy on his best behavior.
But a disordered person probably would not believe a word I told them about his cheating, or they probably do think they are soooo special that he would never do that to them.

I am sure I wanted the other woman to leave him so he would be as miserable as I was in that moment, or at least cause some conflict in his life. But it did not work. They are still together and I am working on getting to meh. So is it ok? I don’t know. Knowledge is power. What the other person does with it is out of my control.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
8 years ago
Reply to  tahitibound

“When I get back to dating I believe I would like to speak to the new guys X.” Careful with that . . . if you feel the need to do that, I don’t think you’re ready to date period.

I’m seeing someone now, and like LAJ says, watch how they are with friends, family, kids. I would have a real problem with my current boyfriend wanting to speak with my X. And I wasn’t the cheater.

New relationships, new slate. There’s plenty of things to look for to judge their character rather then dredging up their X’s.

tahitibound
tahitibound
8 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Thanks Rumblekitty. You are right I am sooo not ready to date, I am still in the divorce process. And that’s a good point if I looked at my X’s “friends” I would notice he had none. If I looked at how he treats his family I would see he ignores them. If I looked at how he treats his kids, I would see his college age son sees him infrequently for dinner and a movie. His teenage daughter blocks his calls and refuses to see him.

Those are all red flags to me now. I mean when his mom passed away in the hospital he called me to sit with his dad. My X? He went back to work at the same hospital, he is a doctor. Not a single tear or need to support his dad during that time. But I think he and his father have Asperger’s and just don’t have empathy. The dad was cold as a rock. When it was time to leave the room for the last time he got up and from 20 feet away said “Bye ______ (her name)”. I mean WTF! I told my X after that please when I die don’t do that to me. He just laughed. HELLO! I was brainwashed that this was normal behavior.

On the upside I just attended a memorial of a dear friend who died in her 40’s and met a man who only knew her a year and was besides himself. I was floored and optimistic for the human race. I was so used to living with a Cyborg that seeing people actually having emotions is heart warming.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
8 years ago
Reply to  tahitibound

I should mention I certainly don’t have all this shit figured out. I”m not all smug in coupled-land. But my point is that, even if I were to grill his X (who cheated on him in this case), I don’t think I’d glean much knowledge. Plus it would make me look like I don’t trust him right out of the gate. Instead, I pay attention to how he treats me, his family, friends, and his kids.

Even with a new slate, and even if you did everything as perfect as you can, you can still pick a dud. The relationship I’m in now could very well blow up in my face like the last one that brought me here. But I try to pick smart, and try to be brave and not worry about things I can’t control. If the worst happens again, I’ll survive. And really, what is the worst that could happen? I’d have to start all over again like before. I’ve done that and I could do it again.

At least after having that anvil of betrayal drop on my head, I know I wouldn’t put up with shit this time around.

Ian Dubito
Ian Dubito
8 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

Are you sure she cheated on him? Did your (STB)X tell you his X cheated on him too? What if she told you it was him who cheated? Danger! Danger! Danger!

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
8 years ago
Reply to  Ian Dubito

Well, I’ve heard it from him and multiple people that my current boyfriend’s X cheated on him. His family even knows about it.

My X husband, (He’s not STB, it’s a done deal) never told me anything about cheating. He always said they grew apart, got married too young, blah blah blah. But I found out later that he had in fact cheated on her. But the idea of going up to someone’s X and asking about the demise of their relationship is just, creepy. It’s one thing if I felt I had a reason to, but to just spring it on them, Nope. Not me. They were divorced for years before I came around. Besides, I never felt the need to ask her if he ever cheated because, hey . . . I’m a chump. I trusted him.

Hey, dating is scary. But I’m not going to be a scared bunny always assuming the worst is going to happen. If this one turns into the last one, he gets fired, post haste. Asking his X if he’s lying really isn’t going to get me anything, is it? Because . . . I’d be asking a cheater.

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
8 years ago
Reply to  tahitibound

I’m seeing a very kind divorced man. He has an amiable relationship with the X, wherein she calls him for help and he helps her. She left; he’s not sure if he was chumped but I’d bet my last $ on it. For a long time, he was holding out for that unicorn and showing her what a great guy he is. I don’t need to talk to her. I’m just watching them interact, listening to what he says (he never badmouths her–says “she gave me the best thing in my life, my child”) and how he treats her. And how he treats me. Where those boundaries are on all sides. We’re in the early stage of things, and I’m in no hurry. I don’t need a highly biased view from a cheating X or an OW. How he treats parents, siblings, child, friends and co-workers speaks volumes.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
8 years ago
Reply to  tahitibound

How can you “warn” the OW about your X? Did she not know about you? Because if she did, warning her is a little pointless isn’t it? You roll around with a person cheating on their spouse, you can expect they’ll do it to you. What’s to warn them about?

tahitibound
tahitibound
8 years ago
Reply to  Rumblekitty

I guess that he is a frequent visitor to Craigs list and Plenty of Fish, even while dating her. That he started cheating once I was diagnosed with breast cancer. Just that he is a POS. But point taken. She is a POS too so it was useless.

Rumblekitty
Rumblekitty
8 years ago
Reply to  tahitibound

If she was aware that he was married to you, screw her. She deserves whatever comes next. You owe her nada.

movin_on
movin_on
8 years ago

Following my Match.com conundrum (see archives), I opted not to tell his new GF. I’m not sure if she was an OW or not (she was a neighbor and there were a few neighbors he was screwing around with. And her husband moved out two weeks before I did…hmmmmm). Anyhoo, she’s a snot so I’m glad I didn’t. Let the chips fall where they may. And when they do, I won’t care.

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
8 years ago
Reply to  movin_on

Movin_on—please advise how to find your story in the archives….(I just looked and was at a loss). I would love to read it as I too, had a Match conundrum. Would love to compare notes, so to speak 🙂 Thanks

movin_on
movin_on
8 years ago
Reply to  Hesatthecurb

Sure thing! August 2013 – https://www.chumplady.com/2013/08/dear-chump-lady-my-ex-husband-is-on-match-com/

Hope it helps in your situation, Hesatthecurb.

Hesatthecurb
Hesatthecurb
8 years ago
Reply to  movin_on

Movin_: thanks, can’t wait to read it! Thankfully I am pretty much at the doorstep of Meh, though it’s taken almost 5 yrs to get there. The asshole BF, combined with what my XH did prior, almost wrecked me….

One redeeming factor: I know the karma bus has hit him (HARD!!!) several times and will continue to do so (because he’s just so damned fucked up) until the day he leaves this earth.

Portia
Portia
8 years ago

I agree with the observation several others have already stated — the only reason this bothers us is that we are chumps. We care, even when it would be better for us if we did not care. We want to fix broken people. We want to keep others from being broken. We like to see justice and experience closure. CHUMPS !!!

Side note: I really love chump values and think the world would be a better place, if only . . .

Sad Truth Time — the world is full of many, many varieties of bottom feeders as well as many, many victims in waiting. Our social system does not prepare us to deal with liars and cheaters and con men and serial killers. If we receive moral or religious education, it prepares us for the next world, not this one. I thought of myself as fairly well educated and I had been exposed to enough variations to the “norm” that I believed I was worldly enough to deal with odd variant freaky types of folks. Really, I was naïve and a little dense, because I thought if I lived my life the “right” way, things like that would not happen to me.

Quit laughing — it happened to you, too!

I was chumped more than once — and I still felt broadsided when I was contacted by OW who had some questions and some very enlightening information for me. It did not take me long to believe her, even though I could see she was trying to manipulate me. It set me off on another long tour of duty on the under cover investigative police force, and through a whole series of psychological steps close to the Kubler-Ross model of dealing with life ending information.
However, I talked to her. I found out how utterly depraved she was capable of being, and how desperate she was to believe that I was “bad” and she was “good” and how much she thought she “deserved” being the “winner” in the POS contest. I even could see things that we had in common — a horrifying thing for me since I considered this woman completely delusional and depraved. I hated her and still felt that even though she was a POS too, she didn’t deserve what HE was doing to her — because NO ONE deserves that. Karma will dole out justice — God can launch a thunderbolt — I can stand on the sidelines and enjoy it, but I shouldn’t get down in the mud and sling it. For my own sake, my own standards, my own peace of mind, I know better so I should act better. At least that is what I believe.

Slowly she saw the truth. She did not want to believe it, she tried everything not to believe it. But even her reptilian brain had to process the truth. Because permanently disordered people do not change. They lack the capacity to change. They cycle, and they never ever think of anyone’s benefit but their own. They can only sustain pretend values for so long. They are truly hollow and devoid of redemption. He dumped her, too.

There are a zillion new targets out there for these predators. There are new victims, waiting in line, anxious to have a relationship and get their chumpy hearts broken. There is no end to their capacity to hurt and endure pain. You cannot save them — they can only save themselves, eventually. It is like the percentage of success for court ordered rehab, as opposed to rehab you seek yourself. Someone else cannot make you want to change — you have to want to change yourself. It is only when it becomes more painful to live with your bad choices than it is to change to better choices that you will change. Until you choose the truth for yourself, you will find a way to get used to the pain.

If asked, you might point an OW in the right direction. Don’t volunteer to help.

movin_on
movin_on
8 years ago
Reply to  Portia

Love it, Portia – “Karma will dole out justice — God can launch a thunderbolt — I can stand on the sidelines and enjoy it, but I shouldn’t get down in the mud and sling it.”

I honestly doubt the karma bus will hit my ex anytime soon. From all outward appearances, he’s living pretty well. But I know it’s all smoke and mirrors and that helps me be at peace with it. BTDT and it was a miserable existence. So even if I never see the karma bus come (oh, how sweet it would be though), I’m gonna be okay. I just don’t want my son to think his dad is a “winner” … Please, God, don’t let my son be like his dad…..

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
8 years ago
Reply to  Portia

This statement is also a key to the question of whether a cheater should get a second chance: “Because permanently disordered people do not change.” If what you have is someone at the middle or far range of disordered, reconciliation is a big risk and a waste of time.

Chumptitude
Chumptitude
8 years ago

Huh, hello? Remember Chris Evert, Paula Yates, Tiger Woods or Arnold Schwarzenegger? They have no problems finding new kibble dispensers…

I think you did the right thing.

Not my circus, not my monkeys! If it were an innocent chump coming to me with questions, I would provide the evidence I have accumulated.

But if his current cum-dumpster AP came to me with questions, I would tell her to go read Dante’s Divine Comedy, especially the first tome (Inferno).

LovedaJackass
LovedaJackass
8 years ago

I could watch the slow-motion train wreck of Jackass and his MOW on social media. At times, especially when the affair crashed, she seemed so depressed I actually felt sorry for her because nothing good could come of this “love” she risked so much for. I’d love to hear her version of things but I would never initiate contact. For all I know, he never told her he was in a relationship when they started up; he probably had to tell her once I caught him but who knows what he told her. Both of his ex-wives were crazy, don’t you know? And his other relationships were mostly with married women so he could write them off too. So my guess was she would just think I was crazy.

Rarity
Rarity
8 years ago

Yup, I already thought this through and came to the same conclusion.

My XH is currently in a long-distance relationship with a conservative Mormon woman in Idaho, mother of four. He moves from Illinois to Idaho next month to be with her. I browsed her FB page a little bit (shame on me, I know, but he wouldn’t say why he was moving to Idaho) and saw her mention that she doesn’t watch rated R movies, so she’s apparently a very conservative Mormon. Should I warn her?

Nope. My XH already convinced the OWhore that I was “crazy” and “psycho” and “lying,” I’m sure he won’t have any trouble convincing another woman of that.

Besides, I would be pretty pissed off if my XH tried to contact a new boyfriend and talk s*** about me. I would be upset if any past boyfriend tried to contact the new guy to warn him off from me. And if I were really crazy about a guy, and his ex-wife / ex-girlfriend contacted me about him, would I listen? It’d be hard.

OTOH, if the new woman ever contacts me for any reason—because she wants us all to be friends “for the kids,” whatever—I will be happy to tell her exactly [I]why[/I] his new family and my family will never be “friends.”

It’s also Mormon church policy that, if a divorced person re-marries in the Mormon temple, the bishop contacts that person’s ex-spouse to make sure they are current on child support and see if they have any objections to the marriage. I’ll be happy to report his CS status then and discuss his affairs.

Cynamon
Cynamon
8 years ago

Any one who dates/pursues a married person doesn’t need any type of warning. They already KNOW that said person is a cheat, liar and can’t be trusted. Oh wait… not them. They’re special! *eye roll.*

I discovered some messages between the STBXH and his AP where she confesses her love to him, how they need to be together and her recommendation that he dump his wife. So even if I wanted to warn her I couldn’t, as their love is Special and I’m just that awful lesbian slut of a wife who cheated on him with men and women. Who ill treated the children and was mean to him. *sighs at the lies.*

However, if I were approached by the woman after the STBXH’s True Love (because there rarely ever is just ONE True Love you know!) I’d spill the beans.

He is manipulative, a liar, a cheat, has brought home STDs, has poor money management skills and is (sadly) a thief.

As for the AP? I had no warning that my life would be destroyed so she gets no warning either. She deserves what she gets – and more.

ambivilant chump
ambivilant chump
8 years ago

Someone set up an anonmyous facebook account recently just to send me a message to say my husband is still seeing the OW. That is more or less all it said: “just so you know, your husband is lying to you, he is still seeing OW”. I have to say it has done more harm than good. I am pregnant and really need calm. In my panic I repsponded all dramatically….”please be my friend, what do you know, my head is a mess” the other person never replied. I am working up the courage to divorce my husband whatever but I think that anonymous messages just leave you with more questions. I have blocked this person because I don’t know what to believe and I would hate it to be someone malicious like the OW or her friends and I have just given them satisfaction.

So after that experience my rule would be stay out of it if it’s an Ex and if you are responding out of a moral conscious think very carefully about doing it if you’re not prepared to put your neck on the line as it can cause more pain and more of that feeling of “I’m going crazy because I don’t know the truth of my own life”

Lania
Lania
8 years ago

AC – just letting you know you have a golden opportunity to get out of having to deal with visitation bullshit – don’t put the fuckwit cheater on your unborn child’s birth certificate, when he or she is born. If fuckwit cheater wants visitation, he can prove paternity (which of course, being a cheater, he won’t want to do as its inconvenient).
You’ll save yourself so much pain having to deal with crazy for 18 years – the money from child support is simply not worth it.

Arnold
Arnold
8 years ago
Reply to  Lania

Yes, but Lania, that money belongs to the child . Kid may resent not having funds for essentials and college, etc.

Lania
Lania
8 years ago
Reply to  Arnold

What, the likely 2 cents (or a pittance more) a month you’ll get, and the endless legal battles trying to extract more money from them, while they lord it over your head saying “Haha I can see my child and I don’t have to pay for it”? Or working jobs under the table and escaping consequences because they cry poor? Or a legal system which simply doesn’t hold cheaters feet to the fire in regards to actually paying? And then dealing with the fuckwittery which is the AP trying to poison your child’s mind? Not worth it.

Arnold
Arnold
8 years ago
Reply to  Lania

Not sure what you mean by 2 cents a month. I think the formula in most states is about 25% of net or somewhere in that neighborhood. Extrapolate that over 18 years and you are talking a lot of money that the child could use. The child has the right to this money, It is not the parent’s call.

Lania
Lania
8 years ago
Reply to  Arnold

Firstly, I don’t live in America.
Secondly, there have been multiple stories on here where the fuckwit cheater has obfuscated their income, to get out of paying the correct child support – and/or then refuse to pay it at all. You’re talking about Cluster B’s here – you cannot reasonably expect them to be fair to their children when they sure as fuck weren’t fair to their spouse.
The onus is then on the chump to pursue legal action (which they often don’t have the money for) to have a chance to get money (which may not be paid anyway).
I’m saying that its an opportunity to get out of the drama and bullshit for 18 years, having to deal with that crap. And then dealing with the crap of the cheater sub-parenting the kids, dealing with AP’s, dealing with toxic out-laws and their families, dealing with Switzerlanding arseholes and so forth. Also, the kids don’t need to deal with that bullshit either. Not to mention the toxic poisoning of said children to become exactly like the cheater.
As for ‘essentials for the child’ there are many programs which offer assistance for children who may not have the money to afford schooling and so forth. You deal with the hand you have been dealt. Don’t deliberately put yourself in the face of drama – because most times it is simply not worth it.

Arnold
Arnold
8 years ago
Reply to  Lania

Here, the state will pursue the parent. Should cost zero.
I understand the upside of not having him involved in her life etc. But, you are talking about depriving the child of financial support, that may, severely, ikpact ghe child. The child has a right to the money.

Tempest
Tempest
8 years ago

Ambivalent chump–I never fully trusted my then-H and would have *welcomed* any hint to pay attention to his activities at graduate parties, conferences, lunch hours, etc. I could have left years earlier. I know anonymous tips are maddening if not accompanied by hard data, but sometimes it is all that a spouse needs to hire a PI, or to at least plant seeds of doubt that can be used later.

In many cases, I wonder if an anonymous tip with some data isn’t the best route–since one is never sure how a prospective chump is going to take the news, this preserves social relations while still giving the chump information to lead an authentic life.

Taking the other path
Taking the other path
8 years ago

My husband cheated for years. I was totally unaware. I was tipped off by two anonymous phone calls from a man. I wanted so badly to know who blew up my life. I am certain now that it was my husband. He wasn’t getting enough satisfaction from the cheating, he needed me to be hurting as well. I’m sure the prostitutes were fabulous but it’s so much better to have me on the side begging him to love me..I begged and pleaded for him to value me and our family. Tired of it all, he has until this Monday to be out of the house.

Ambivalent chump
Ambivalent chump
8 years ago

Yes someone suggested to me that it could be cheating husband. I have wondered if it is an exit affair, which he flatly denies. If it is him then he really is bat-shit crazy and I think I would actually find it funny; more evidence of an escape if/when I find the courage to leave him. I might have children with him but I’d still have years without that kind of crazy in my life.

Ian Dubito
Ian Dubito
8 years ago

Ambivalent Chump,

If it’s not too late, have an abortion, leave that cheater, and RUN!!!

Arnold
Arnold
8 years ago
Reply to  Ian Dubito

She could leave him and run sans abortion, if it is against her moral code.

Lyn
Lyn
8 years ago

Ambivalent, I had a similar situation once with an anonymous phone call. Only thing is they didn’t give me enough details to confirm anything, and when I asked my husband he just said it was a disgruntled coworker trying to get back at him. It caused a lot of anxiety but didn’t solve anything. I’d say if you’re going to alert someone, you need to present them with irrefutable evidence.

Ambivalent chump
Ambivalent chump
8 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

I know people need to provide some substantial information (e.g dates or places) or the Cheater just denies it. I struggle to think that people are just malicious but then I struggle to believe husband sucks so maybe something chumps have in common is a niave trust in the good in people. X

Lyn
Lyn
8 years ago

This is something I wrestled with a lot, especially when one particular minister pressed upon me that it was my duty to keep another family from breaking apart. She wanted me to tell the husband of the OW what I’d discovered. Only thing is I’d already been painted as the “crazy ex wife” and I had a gut feeling it would all blow up in my face. I talked to my kids about it, showed them the evidence in their dad’s own writing, and they said “put your efforts into building your new life, don’t waste time trying to alert the OW’s husband.” For a long time I tried to imagine ways I could get the info to him anonymously, but then I washed my hands of the whole sordid ordeal. For all I knew the husband of the OW was okay with the situation, maybe he had his own AP on the side, or maybe they had a 3-some with my ex. Who knows? It was all a big cluster**ck. My ex had even won over the OW’s parents, as he moved into their basement for awhile after we separated. It was crazy. Some people don’t agree with my not warning the OM, but I followed my gut and feel I made the right decision for me. I’d already wasted too much of my life on that sad situation.

RockStarWife
RockStarWife
8 years ago
Reply to  Lyn

Regarding informing an innocent person of his/her spouse’s affair(s): While married and living with me, my STBX repeatedly engaged in very risky sexual behavior with people who had multiple incurable STDs. Thus, I was exposed. I wish that at least one of STBX’s friends had told me about the extramarital activity so that I could have protected myself. Would you like the innocent husband of adulterous OW to contract a deadly, incurable disease? You can save someone’s life by telling him or her about the affair.

Syringa
Syringa
8 years ago

Some women don’t care if their men cheat. Skank Woman KNOWS my XH has cheated on her and still stays with him. Go figure. But then again, this was a 52 year old woman who knew he was married but still thought it was okay to sneak off to a skeezy motel and spread her skanky legs for him. It’s the best she can do apparently. So it wouldn’t make a bit of difference if I or anyone else told her. She wouldn’t care at all.

Live and Learn
Live and Learn
8 years ago

No. The OW knew about me and views that she “won”. But for years, his ex-wife (who I got along with very well) tried to warn me. And of course, I did not believe her. But he absolutely controlled the narrative. He would beat her to the punch by coming in irritated and say ‘N. says I am going to cheat on you. I don’t know why she says that. I never cheated on anyone.’. Lies. Before I went totally NC, I sent a message thanking N (the ex-wife) and my step-daughter’s husband. They were the only people in the entire family (who all knew about OW) that made any attempt to let me know that something was wrong.

Survivor
Survivor
8 years ago

I felt no need to warn the OW. Fucktard ex brought her along to burglarize my home, so she should have been able to figure out what a prize she’d won all by herself.

GladIt'sOver
GladIt'sOver
8 years ago

The OW has to learn the hard way for herself, just as we all did. In my case, another coworker of ex and his “soul mate” OW (IT WAS NOT ME AND I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT IT) actually DID send OW an email warning her that ex slept with tons of other men and was generally bad news (in looking back, I now suspect that the letter-writer — a good friend of ex — was probably sleeping with him as well). Not only did this email do NOTHING to slow down the affair, but the OW’s husband saw the email on their computer and that’s how he found out she was cheating on him with my ex. The OW continued her “twu wuv” affair with my ex for many months longer before it finally either fizzled out, or she ended it, I don’t know which.

Not so long ago, a good friend of mine actually ran into that OW (now divorced) and the OW said she regretted ever leaving her husband.

I feel very, very sorry for any woman who gets involved with my ex, but I would never contact any such person or warn her in any way. I know ex would have already portrayed me as a bad person and I know the new chump would never believe me. Just like me, she will have to learn the hard way.

Kim
Kim
8 years ago

I exchanged some emails with OW that I realize I should not have, but in one of them I said that exWH had cheated on me with at least 3 women, so it would probably happen to her too and nobody would feel sorry for her. She responded that she knew all about those OW and she had also been unfaithful to her husband so she understood. It was so jaw dropping to me. Neither of these people know how to keep their pants on yet they think their love is going to transcend because they understand each other. Oooohhhhkay. Good luck with that, idiots. I just wish my kid wasn’t involved in their life.

ChumpionoftheWorld
ChumpionoftheWorld
8 years ago

My ex-wife’s “next one” was cheating on his wife during their affair, so this created an infinite double-infidelity black hole loop of crap. No mere mortal can bring advice to them and survive to tell the tale!