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The Mindfuck Only Has Three Channels

mindfuckchannelBW I have a cousin who is going through a miserable divorce with a cheater. Long marriage, double life, financial abuse. You guys know the drill.

I’ve been her cheerleader throughout, providing chump drubbings and 2x4s as necessary. (Apparently, the chump gene is hereditary. My cousin had a pretty bad congenital case of chumpiness, like yours truly.)

Anywho, she’s finally in the home stretch. She filed at last.

Guess who’s sniffing around her door all sad and furious?

That’s right — Mr. Disordered Cheaterpants with his Hail Mary plays for kibbles.

Oh shit, she really went and got a lawyer. Oh shit, he’s losing his chumpy meal ticket. Oh shit, he needs to reassert control.

If you’re a Mr. (or Mrs.) Disordered Cheaterpants, how are you going to reassert control over your chump? A show of hands, class! You’ve lived this. Tell me. What comes next?

That’s right! The MINDFUCK.

Oh sure, there’s been mindfucking all along, but there’s no mindfucking like the mindfucking that comes when you finally lawyer up and say Enough of This SHIT. I’m DONE.

Disordered Cheaterpants hate that. And if you’ve think you’ve seen manipulation before, by God, they really bring their A game when they feel the kibbles are slipping away. They amp up the drama, they amp up the chaos, they try super hard to get you invested in their insanity. And they will pull out every stop.

But really chumps, as I’ve said here before, and I was saying to my cousin again this afternoon — the mindfuck channel only has three stations. 




Your Cheaterpants will cycle through each one in pretty quick succession trying to get you back on the leash. If you know to look for it, it really becomes quite transparent.

OMG, a sad sausage sighting! Ooh, he went in for How Can You Do This To Me — you’re a terrible mother/father/Christian/Catholic/Methodist/employee/lay/Rotarian/baker of cupcakes. (FLIP!) AND HE’S NOT GOING TO STAND FOR IT! Be afraid! Be very afraid! He’s going to get a lawyer and take you for EVERYTHING! The children! Your pension! Your collection of Franklin Mint Norman Rockwell plates! Yes, even the CHRISTMAS ornaments! (FLIP!) He doesn’t understand your hostility. Can’t we be friends? Remember when I gave you that christmas ornament with the kids? Ah, good times. This bitter, money-obsessed punishing person you are now, gosh, it’s not your best self. Give him a hug. Just for old times sake. Friends, right? (FLIP!) No? You won’t hug him? Don’t you know how VERY DIFFICULT this is for him right now? (FLIP!) You are going to REGRET THIS.

See? Three channels. Charm, rage, and self-pity. This is how you control a chump. Find their buttons and work ’em.

He texted my cousin: “Why can’t we just get this divorce holding hands, instead of using fists?”

Oh I don’t know, Mr. Disordered Cheaterpants. Because you bankrupted her? Spent her inheritance? Hooked up with strangers on Craiglist?

Divorce is so ugly! Why can’t she be a pal about it? Because you’re a sick, predatory fuck, that’s why.

Cheaters are so damn predictable. They’re always so, so sorry until someone lawyers up and then, poof! All their sorry evaporates. Can’t have chumps getting all uppity. Need to nip this shit in the bud! Rage. Charm. Self-pity.

If you can’t intimidate your chump, seduce your chump. If you can’t seduce your chump, get them to feel very, very sorry for you and imply this is All Their Fault. If you can’t get your chump to feel sorry for you, intimidate your chump. Repeat.

It’s a sad day for Disordered Cheaterpants when Mindfuck TV goes on the fritz.

(FLIP!) No contact. Turn the channel off.

This column ran previously. Feel free to comment!

Ask Chump Lady

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  • That’s why no contact is so important. It’s easy for us chumps to get suckered in by the self-pity channel. We love a good Hallmark movie.

  • My cheater first responded to the news that I paid a lawyer a retainer and he was going to be served, with “so what? who cares?’. The next morning he bawled like a baby.

  • Classic. So true about cheaters…my cheater wanted to rehash “what went wrong” after we had been divorced and I was happily remarried. I told her that I wasn’t confused about what ended our marriage (her cheating and leaving) and that I would not meet as I had other commitments to my new family. RAGE. “You’re a bad Christian.” Rich coming from an lying adulteress.

    • It seems like many of these narc-cheaters view our Christianity as a get-out-of-jail-free card to chump us. Because we’re Christians we will automatically forgive and take them back. We can’t possibly kick them out, because they assume it’s against our *religion*…..

      • I agree that some cheaters work what one of friends call “the faith angle”. My ex knew how super-devoted I was to making a marriage work (read: Chumpy), and rode that train as long as he could. Though he did the charming/remorse maneuver after the first D-Day, there was absolutely no classic rage when he sensed the gravy train was about to go off the rails. Instead, it was a supreme dose of the silent treatment. Suddenly, I didn’t exist. He said nothing, and didn’t even look in my direction. Self pity? Oh yeah! He worked that ploy to death. The poor sad sausage: “she was a meanie, and weft me all awone” (then insert his thumb Into his mouth).

        • I think the silent treatment is another flavor of rage. The silent treatment is horrible torture to a chump who still loves their spouse…but it’s a glorious gift for when we’re ready for no contact!

          • LUD, I suffered the silent treatment for 37 years and never once did I think of it as a form of rage and also abuse but I do now that you have said it. I just thought that because the ex was quiet, it was his way of dealing with whatever it was he was dealing with. You are correct about it being horrible torture. There were times when I thought that I was crazy &/or would go crazy. Now he has convinced people that I am crazy.

            • Maree, I can relate to your ex being silent. Mine was the same way, as was his father. It frustrated me to no end when I’d try to bring up relationship concerns, and would get the silent treatment. He often said “men don’t think about stuff like that.” I practically begged him to talk to me, I tried everything I could think of. I even tried to be understanding of the fact that he wasn’t a talkative person, but after awhile I’d get so frustrated I’d explode, after which I’d feel crazy. It wasn’t a good dynamic.

              Towards the end of our marriage I’d say things like “I’m so lonely, I cry myself to sleep at night,” and he’d just look at me — but never answer. I got the message that my feelings weren’t important, in fact I think he was hoping I’d become miserable enough to leave. Anyway, it shocked me to find out he was having long conversations with his married coworker. He’d never talked to me that long in 31 years! After we separated I told my counselor that being ignored was just as abusive as being hit.

              The first man I dated after my divorce talked and talked to me. I got all teary-eyed because I couldn’t believe he thought I had anything interesting to say!

              • Lyn, I have said it before that we were married to very similar people. I haven’t dated and I never will but I do speak with a nice chap who does compliment me, looks at me when I speak, hears what I say and responds accordingly which unnerves me because I am so used to being ignored and put down. He is a well educated and articulate man and yet I could hardly get 2 words out of my ex. Maybe it is because the ex is a fool and his way of controlling me was to make me think I was nothing. He never had a hard job of convincing me of that because my own Mother made sure I knew I was nothing from the moment I could understand and yet here I am at the grand old age of 64 and I do know that I am a very worthy, decent and kind person who deserves way more than she has ever received.

              • My STBX was the same. I would try to talk with him and he would not respond or if he did talk, it would be to point out things i was doing wrong and to criticize. I would explode. For 17 years this was the dynamic. He cheated on me from the start. He would go to strip joints when i was pregnant. I never felt secure with him, always suspicious and now looking back 20/20, The gaslighting is glaringly obvious, although at the time, i was in the dark. He always denied and my instincts would kick, but i wanted to trust him so i disregarded my suspicions and believed his word over my own feelings.

                About a month before he left the kids and I for his work assistant, 25 years his junior, he gave me a red velvet, ultra romantic,valentine card declaring his love for me.

                I hold onto that card as a reminder of what insincere, cardboard love feels like. His words were worthless. Deep down i always knew this.

                17 years i was burned by the flame and denied that it hurt.

                Lesson learned.

                Valuing another person’s word over my own feelings, this is what made me a Chump. This is what makes everyone a Chump, not just in marriage, but in all walks of life.

                My New Years resolution is this: I take full responsibility for my Chumpiness and am no longer a victim. I have fixed my picker and my next man will contribute to my joy, confidence, security, prosperity, feelings of general well being and warm compatability, although all of the above is partially self generated.

                Life is good for recovered Chumps.
                Find your power.

            • I wish I had seen this topic discussed before. My experience was similar and I was bewildered about what was going on. I began to understand a bit when I was reminded of the famous Robert Frost poem “Fire and Ice”:
              Some say the world will end in fire,
              Some say in ice.
              From what I’ve tasted of desire
              I hold with those who favor fire.
              But if it had to perish twice,
              I think I know enough of hate
              To say that for destruction ice
              Is also great
              And would suffice.

              I hadn’t understood that silence can be as devastating as verbal violence. Maybe even more so. The comments here are spot on.

          • It absolutely is a form of silent rage, and is emotionally abusive. There is a big difference between taking some time to cool down after an argument, and use of the silent treatment.

            The silent treatment is also one possible indicator of an active affair on the part of your spouse (first-hand knowledge).

            • The silent treatment is a total mindfuck. Especially if it follows a plea for more affection. How dare you ask to have your needs met, just for that, I’m not going to meet ANY of them.

              After years of emotional abuse and ensuing depression, when I sought treatment, he actually raged at me for not doing it sooner, because he KNEW I was depressed, he told his brother a year ago.

              You what? You sat there and watched me drown for an entire fucking year?

              After that discussion came the silent treatment (far from the first time). It went on well over a month, before I broke the silence to tell him about a member of my family dealing with a tragedy. I didn’t think it was right to keep him in the dark about it, because I actually thought he was human enough to give a shit about my family.

              So that’s how supportive he was of me trying to deal with depression. Go silent, freeze me out, sleep in the guest room…. You’d almost think he didn’t want me to get better.

              There’s a shitload of other times he pulled it, but that one sticks with me, well over 10 years later. Calculated withdrawal of affection and support when it was obviously what I needed the most.

              • I’m glad people are discussing the silent treatment. (Not that I’m glad anybody has gone through it). Most of my 13 year marriage was this behavior. It really hurts. I don’t even really know all that I did to make him so angry. I can’t imagine anybody really listening to me and talking back to me. I just can’t wrap my brain around it. It’s hard to process that this is abuse and not something that I deserve. Or to believe that things could ever be any other way. I had a rough weekend (my poor kids are suffering so) and just rereading old posts helped so much. Knowing that other people have gone through this nightmare and that I’m not alone is a huge relief.

              • Oh yes, they will watch you drown and enjoy it. During faux reconciliation my ex would watch me trigger off of something and NEVER offer to help me until I exploded. I couldn’t understand it At the time. Now I do. He was enjoying my pain.

            • The last year of my 3 year previous relationship was pretty much a pattern of: Walk on eggshells -> Say something he doesn’t agree with or doesn’t like -> silent treatment, sometimes for weeks at a time.
              In the end, I realised it wasn’t worth that shit – but with a lot of time wasted.

              • The silent treatment is horrible, disrespectful, and imo definitely a form of abuse, it’s passive but aggressive.

            • My ex tried the silent treatment on me a few times very early in our relationship (like … 3rd date! Face palm!) But I treated that with the disregard it deserved, and he stopped doing it. Idiot that I was, I actually thought this was a sign of maturity and the ability to learn better relationship skills!! (How many face palms can there be?) I used this fact to reassure myself and to improve the quality of my spackle, for many years. Only when reading, very late in the game, about narcissism, did I understand that it was manipulation, and that he stopped that technique simply because it wasn’t working. Needless to say, he found many, many other ways to manipulate me, all right out of the Narc Cheater Handbook.

          • My stbx went silent treatment on me for 8 months and it was a total mindfuck. However, in the end it did give me the space to get my head straight(er). But then he called again this Sat. as we are filing divorce papers so now it’s a bit too real for him. It’s always about him.

          • Here’s the thing. I need help. I feel sorry for him. Never a drinker as far as I know, but four (FOUR!) stints in alcohol rehab since he took up with schmoopie and kept leaving me and then coming home. He says he can’t be alone but he left me alone. I am worried because I feel sorry for him. He is so pathetic. He has been sending our son sad and pathetic texts. My son was almost relieved to find out he was in alcohol rehab because he thought he had a brain tumor. Why would you want us to feel sorry for you instead of proving you can do better? I try to show my son I am strong and self sufficient. He wants us to pity him. What he doesn’t understand it that he actually broke my heart. I spent years worrying about him, loving him, caught up in his drama and dysfunction. I now understand that no marriage is better than a terrible marriage. But I feel sorry for him and I am afraid I will try to rescue him again. Please talk me out of it. Now, ironically, I am afraid shmoopie will drop him and he will be alone. He is very self destructive. And very toxic to me and my son. I am just starting out on my own. Financially independent for the first time in 35 years. Living a life alone when I didn’t expect it. But no one is criticizing me or lying to me or hurting me. I can’t be dragged back into this.

            • “According to Martha Stout, Ph.D., author of The Sociopath Next Door*, the best clue that you are dealing with a sociopath is the pity play.

              “The most reliable sign, the most universal behavior of unscrupulous people is not directed, as one might imagine, at our fearfulness,” Stout says. “It is, perversely, an appeal to our sympathy.”

              The combination of consistently bad or inadequate behavior and frequent pity plays, Stout continues, is the closest thing to a warning you’ll ever get that you are being manipulated by a sociopath.”

              Don’t buy into the pity play.

              • Right. Martha Stout speaks the truth.

                The kind of behaviour he exhibits, in short, pays off. It gets him lavish amounts of attention and endless amounts of other people’s time. It gives him complete centrality. Better still, it dresses him up as ‘vulnerable’, which of course gives him an ongoing excuse to behave as badly as he wants, completely unchallenged by other people in his life who become frightened of what he might do if they don’t continually follow him with interest. It’s childish. Sociopaths specialise in pervasive childish behaviour.

              • Afraid of what he might do, so everyone else on their best behavior around him. Asswipe to a tee. 60 year old acting like a spoiled child. So glad to be getting away from that.

            • Don’t let him drag you back into that hell lostandfound! I am living alone after 36 years also and it is a major struggle but it will and DOES get better! Hang on to the reality of what you have now! PEACE and REALITY!

              Do not talk to him in anyway!

              • I fully relate it was 34 years for me with my narchole cheating lying stealing and not earning a living it’s all about him I’m 4 months in just trying to recover and I have to build a whole new life. I will do it and find some happiness. I am determined and have god, my sister, a couple of good friends and my kids by my side.

              • Hang in there sadlady15!! Pretty soon you’ll be gladlady!!!! It take a while to realize that all you think you have lost you didn’t really have anyway and that it really wasn’t something you would have picked out for yourself at all – if you could have known its true nature!!!

                Getting rid of a nasty, soul sucking, disordered leech is liberating! Someday soon you’ll look back and think, ‘I’m so happy not to be there anymore!’

                Hugs to you!!! Look up at this awesome sky and know that you are not alone and you are gonna heal from this abuse!

              • I agree jeep. I expect i will be sad about asswipe and his betrayal for a long time. It does hurt us chumps a long time. But now i dont have to deal with his shit, anger, lying or cheating ways anymore. He is whore juices problem now. He told her he would cheat on her, he has and will continue to do so. He has lost a lot of respect from friends and family who he lied to about what happened i told the truth. I have found myself again and i am glad, he will just spread more misery in his life and im so glad im not part of it. And whore juice is a particular nasty one when she finds out hes cheating she will destroy him. Good!!!! Couldnt happn to a better guy!

              • I’m still sad Kar marie…but in a different way…leaving family traditions behind is the worst of it now. I am so happy not to have to deal with satan’s babyfied ways anymore! I am free of his entitled ass! I just miss the family traditions we had for 36 years…but, in 2015 I started new ones and am settling in 🙂 My kids seem a lot calmer now too. No more drunken brawls! What a flippin RELIEF!

              • Again i agree jeep. Just knowing the family will never ever be all together again for events and holidays saddens me greatly the kids too and they prefer my company to asswipe and the whore. He seems to think on holidays he will go back and forth between his and my house or eventually when i get “over it” me and my kids will go to his house with his whore as one big happy family. My children understand my pain and why i never want to lay eyes on him again. And they agree for my preference. Him and his whore believe i should just open my arms and love them both cause they are happy! You know really good friends! The whore is as stupid as him. They just dont get it do they? No souls neither one. New rules, new tradtions at my house from now on!

              • No they don’t get it Kar marie. They are empty and appear to be soulless…I’d feel sorry for them but truly there is no reason to – they don’t know what they are missing. If they did they would have thought long and hard before making such devastating choices.

                Leave them to their empty lives and go be happy and find your joy cause you can 🙂 You know what it feels like to feel love and compassion and you will! Very soon you will be FREE!

              • Things are getting scary. He was hiding in our dark house last night (he now lives with his new supply). He hid his truck so I wouldn’t know he was here and screamed at me fir half am hour about the separation agreement . Didn’t stop until our daughter arrived. Creepy.. I am reporting to the police today. My counselor has been trying to get me to see I am abused and that finally did it.

              • A!!!! Please do not second guess yourself on reporting his behavior to the police!!! These (in) humans are VERY DANGEROUS! If you let him get away with it his behaviors will escalate! You could end up in the emergency room with broken bones! MAKE THE REPORT and get a restraining order! As your divorce goes on there will be more and more things happening that he won’t like and he will hurt you any way he can!

                I found satan in the crawl space trying to push out the heat vent he couldn’t possibly get through! I have no idea what he thought he was gonna do…he was very drunk and raging! Later that week he threw me across the room and kicked me till I tried to get up…when I did he drug me into another room and beat me on the floor and fell on me with all his weight…I ended up with 4 broken ribs…he ended up laughing and taunting me that I was crazy and a cry baby and he never touched me I was a liar…wow huh! I wish I had let my daughter in law take me to the er…satan would be cooling his disordered heels with others of his kind…

                The 4th time he came at me I called the police…he was arrested but I wouldn’t press charges…the police did. He was acquitted because I didn’t testify…but he knows not to come near me now…he knows I will protect myself now…I don’t think he’d be acquitted a second time…I think he knows that too.

                Please protect yourself!

              • Yes that is what I intend to do. While the counselor was calling it abuse I wasn’t really seeing it as such until the weird behavior last night

              • Oh I hope you and A both protect yourselves sadlady! You have the right to be safe!

              • After 36 years of domestic abuse and 3 years of a very expensive contentious divorce I am finally happy and at peace knowing I am not legally married to a sociopath anymore! A peaceful life is my top priority now!

              • Amen Gail! Exact same situation here!!! Thirty six years together and a 3 year divorce! Why it took 3 years is something only he knows…wow huh! We weren’t worth millions!

                Divorced from satan exactly 1 year TODAY!!!! YA!!!!!

            • LostandFound–NOOOOO!!! Resist! Yes, your X is sad and pathetic, but (a) some of it is a ploy to get what he wants and avoid consequences; and (b) you can’t save him.

              Furthermore, he gave up the right to your help as soon as he screwed someone else. Contract over. Your son can choose to help his father, but (given your history & how X treated you), it will only deter your health without substantially affecting your X’s mental health. Cost/benefit analysis is strongly on the side of stay clear of him.

            • Don’t do it. Don’t feel sorry for him after what he did to you. Let it go. Schoompies circus, schoompies monkeys. Turn from pity for him and be strong for yourself. And I know it ain’t easy.

              • Thank you all. I wish I could stop even thinking about him- feeling sorry, not love. I am trying to stay out of it even though I have the urge to contact his brother and find out what happened to him. But I won’t.

              • Best way to go. After I move from the marital home hours away I’m getting therapy to get him out of my head. The betrayal and aftermath was and still is heartbreaking. Gonna take me awhile but I become more indifferent every day I’m getting there! And you will too!

            • Your letter reminds me of the Zac Brown lyric: “I lay my heart on the tracks. Your train comes along.”

              I would name your problem (as opposed to his problems of alcohol, cheating, and self-pity) as codependency. That’s a problem I know very well. Many chumps have struggled with this condition that keeps us rescuing the supposedly broken and seeking out people who can never reciprocate our love and attention.

              The most salient fact here is you cannot “rescue” people from problems they create for themselves. You can’t do your kids’ homework and then be surprised that the fail their classes. You can’t fix the chaos caused by alcoholics because the very act of “fixing” enable more chaos. And more chaos. You can’t fill the hole in the soul that an addict or a narcissist is trying to fill. Only the addict or the disturbed person can make that effort, and the failure rate of rehabilitation and therapy, in the case of narcissists, suggests that even professionals have a low rater of success with these people.

              What you can do is care enough about him to let him live with the terrible consequences of his terrible choices. And you can get your son into therapy so that he learns he is not responsible for his father’s pain, his father’s failures, or his father’s life. Had I learned that at age 10 or 12 or 25 or 40, I might have saved myself a lifetime of chump hood.

              • I do go to CODA as I totally see that I am codependent. I try to remember how he was never there for me and how purposely cruel he was. Then he just cut me off with the silent treatment which is the ultimate in being left for dead. I remember everything. It still hurts but I am not rescuing him yet again. He always said he was unhappy because of me. Now I see it had nothing to do with me. Schmoopie’s turn

      • My ex used his OWN Christianity as a get-out-of-jail-free card. He used my not being Christian as a prime reason why he had to cheat on me with Christian women — he “needed a Christian family to take to church.” He’s Mr Christian of the year, so he claims. Along with the “I forgave myself and Jesus forgives me, so I don’t feel bad about anything I did, and you are the one with a problem if you don’t forgive me as well.” I got a lot of that.

        • Hmm…I suppose mine used the Christian self pity channel (?) when he told me that he wanted a divorce. Saying “I am going to put an end to your torment (how benevolent)…I want a divorce since I don’t measure up to YOUR standards”. Uh…no, you certainly don’t. I told him that obviously, the feelings are mutual since it was HE that has shown me over the years that I did not measure up to HIS standards either…you know…tons of porn, flirting and trying to hook up with a woman, and all that over ten years.

          HE is the one who is “tormented” first of all. It MUST be tormenting for a Christian man to always crave something more than he has and not appreciate all the blessings he was given. So NO, he does not measure up to my standards truth be told. This is not what I signed up for.

          • I’m an atheist but it’s incredible to me how many use religion to justify their actions. Losers, using God for an excuse or salvation. Bastards!

        • Even if you’re not a Christian they’ll find a stick to beat you with. My ex said that because I wouldn’t agree to an open marriage, that made me a bad feminist (!)

          • Hahahaha! Bad feminist! Such bad self empowerment to say no. Love it, Linden. You can’t make this shit up!

            • The things these mofo cheaters say sure give me a chuckle. I thought ex and his whore took the prize for stupidity, but DAMN, I don’t know anymore. There is just too much competition, lol.

        • Your X is an idiot. That makes NO sense to “need a Christian family to take to church.” When people are KNOWINGLY breaking the 7th commandment, they are NOT practicing Christians. Pretty sure scripture states God has given us a way out due to sexual immorality only – not because of a ‘better Christian family.’ What a fool.

        • Because the stupid fuck couldn’t take his own arse to church or other religious gatherings himself – he had to have you there to hold his pathetic little hand. What a tool.

    • They don’t want to revisit ‘what went wrong’. They only want to use it as a tempting opener so that you can quickly get to the part where you say how important/wonderful/missed they are.

        • Yes!!! No matter what they say after they’ve been caught about how sorry they might be, or they know there was no excuse for the cheating, scratch the surface apology and you’ll see they always think it was our fault they cheated/we deserved it because we did/did not do _____________ (fill in blank).

          • Here’s my fill in the blanks that the XPOS used on me: he was ‘trumped’ by my dad (ie, my dad came first), that the OWhore/Stripper was very manipulative and unstable and he didn’t want to fool me 3x with her (bc apparently he lied 2 other times that she and him were over), and I saved the best for last……he said the OWhore/Stripper lived only 3 miles away and I lived 300 miles away!
            I’m so glad he based his love (actually lack there of) for me on distance! Nice to know 10 years later.

      • Or to get to the part where they tell you it was all YOUR fault, and do their best to hurt you.

    • I know you went through hell with your cheater. But your posts are illustrative of the classic cheater MO. I always read them.

  • once again I am astounded by the truth of experience. Just when I thought my cheater was something special and unique – SO NOT. Just like all the rest

    • Kind of sucks to realise these people we thought were so extraordinary are really as common as dirt. It’s also freeing, though. 🙂

      • So true Nord, we believe ours is unique and “different” special.
        We find out they are as common as dirt and use the same lines, just fill in the blanks.
        Simple truth, X had me convinced he was Mr. Integrity, and he was quick to point out “the others” and how lucky I was he wasn’t like them. I was so wrapped up into believing X wasn’t like the
        common piece of shit. Everyone knew but me
        I feel like the Queen of Chumpness.

  • It’s all very, very true, I’m sorry to say. It took me awhile to see it when things first kicked off but honestly, CL is spot on. My ex continues to cycle, although he’s been stuck at cold, burning rage for quite awhile now, probably because he realises there is no way his charm or self-pity will get a reaction and although the rage doesn’t either I guess it makes him feel better being in that place.

    Me? I’m meh. 🙂

  • Why do these assholes always want to stay friends, good friends afterwards and want to discuss what went wrong afterwards. I know what went wrong I went through menopause and major surgery and instead of love, support and understanding he buried his head in the sand where I was concerned and then went and fucked and left me for someone else. Fuck him he stopped being my friend the day he went sniffing elsewhere. Fucker. Friends my ass.

    • Ditto Kareneufemia!
      My cheater pants went water-skiing for many hours before taking me to the hospital for scheduled surgery (8 hours); did not offer to help in any way; always thought it was bizarre behavior but now realize it is because he is a “cluster B” as well as a long term pot smoker and daily drinker. He is a sick twisted fuck! No contact is my saving grace as well as a seasoned female attorney. DDay #2 was Nov 2013…a 28 year marriage takes a long time to end.

    • “Why do these assholes always want to stay friends, good friends afterwards…”

      Of course you probably know the answer to this Karen! But for the newly chumped…

      The reason they want to stay “friends” with us is in order to relieve their own *GUILT*. Remaining “friends” pacifier their conscience. Their wrongdoing isn’t so…wrong.

      Lest we forget, most of these disordered a$$holes believe that they are the cat’s meow. EVERYONE loves them (why don’t YOU? Ha! Proof that there’s something wrong with YOU!).

      It’s all image management for them. As long as it *appears* that EVERYONE “loves” them, they feel good
      about themselves. Heck, I’ve heard of cheaters telling people that they’re “still GREAT friends” with their ex’s even though their ex’s (smartly) have had NO CONTACT with them for 5 YEARS!!!

      But we all know that they’re all ‘truth-challenged’ anyway…

      • Well said Gypsy57, it’s all about image management and the shared responsibilities narrative they WANT to spin to family, friends and colleagues.

        Something along the line of “see I am not a bad person, chump and I both made mistakes, and contributed to the implosion of our family, we have both come to terms with this, and see, we are friends now, it’s all good.”


        • Double barf! And being his friend ain’t gonna happen. NC is the way to be! He was silent about his feelings, emotions, Betrayal. Silent on pretty much everything. I will return the favor.

          • I love this!^^^ I’m definitely returning the favor, too! My x-hole picked up the kids on Friday and brought them home on Sunday in his silent treatment mode (the all huffy-puffy one). I guess he thought it would get to me and I would ask him what was wrong. No. I just smiled, hugged my boys and turned my back so he could get the hell off my property. See ya in 2 weeks when you come get the kids! Bye!

    • If you listen to Sandra Brown on Blogtalk radio, she says that Cluster B’s always have post contact. They can’t do closure because it takes insight about the impact of their behavior on partners, and they can’t do that because their brain is not wired for empathy. They simply can’t feel the pain they caused. So this wanting to be friends is par for the course. And if you are friends then 1) they get to do image management and 2) they might just leverage you for some cake or kibble when their pipeline supply runs low.

      My XH wanted to be friends but he is living with schmoopie. I said no, I don’t want anything to do with schmoopie, I don’t want my kids to have anything to do with schmoopie, and being friends is just the camels nose. I do all the work for family events and he and then eventually schmoopie get to come and it all looks like happy ever fucking after… no fucking way am I having dickweed and slunty in my world. Judging from their ‘happy’ couple Xmas picture, he is still a disordered fuck and slunty is finding out what the reality is.

    • I’m stuck in the “pretending to be friends” spot. After he signs -then it’s NC and fuck you my “friend”. Ha!

      • I’m stuck in that realm for the moment till he finishes financing for the house. He’s buying it from me. Then it’s adios mother fucker never to be seen or heard from again. Says it will kill him if I cut him off completely. Really, he has whore juice he doesn’t need me, none of my friends or family will tell him anything. And when he threatens them they will laugh at him. My kids won’t tell him anything either they also feel he fired me so none of his damn business how I am. That bastard just wants to feel good about himself. Fuck him!!!

  • I’ve just had a bizarre email from the supposed OW. She contacted me unprompted nearly 2 years after I kicked ex out. She and he are strangely still in touch even though nothing came of what was certainly an emotional affair. She wanted his ‘advice’ on something and clearly got a barrage of severe self pity as I don’t think he’s found anyone else after all and I suspect is still living in a rented place feeling deeply sorry for himself. She sounds as narcissistic as him in that she told me I should talk to him (the audacity and ego is astonishing), called me by a shortened over familiar name I hate and no one uses and signed off as ‘Sx’ when I’ve never met her! She also seemed to imply she knows him better than me after 12 years together! So the above article feels remarkably apt to me as he continues to refuse to divorce, control and manipulate even through others but above all wallows in self pity.

  • They each have a knob on top of their heads. When they reach up and twist it, their heads rotate and round comes another face with one of their other expressions and moods. My neighbour had a doll like that. Creepiest thing ever.

  • Although I’d hardly seen my ex cry in over 30 years of marriage, when he announced he loved me but was no longer in love with me he sobbed and cried like a baby. For WEEKS. It was so out of character I thought he must have a brain tumor. I did feel very sorry for him until I found evidence of what was really going on. It was the most confusing and horrible time of my life. When he did announce he was leaving, those tears dried up and he became a stone. After that he looked at me with dead, empty eyes and talked to me like a robot. It was so weird and unnerving, I used to joke with my sister that an alien had taken over his body. He truly became a different person, and I heard he was telling people he left because I wouldn’t let him be who he really was.

    • Lyn, he’s right, you won’t let him be his Twu Self! You won’t let him be a sociopathic cake-eater!!!! You won’t let him fully actualize himself by fucking strange AND coming home to a happy wife and family! You are soooo mean!

        • If we are all so mean why in the hell do so many of them still what to be friends!!!!!! The mindful of it all!! Grrrrrrr! Asswipe is not my friend. Friends don’t fuck each other over. He chased all my friends off years ago out of jealousy or they weren’t up to his standards. Fucking bastard!! Never again will I be so blind!!

    • Lyn, I had been married to my cheaterpants for 25 years, (together for 5 years before) and I could read him like a book. Possessed by an Alien being was exactly how it felt…the other thing that struck me as weird was his new found cheater logic…. Prior to his abduction (and probable Anal Probing) he had been very logical and almost impossible to win an argument with…then the Aliens took over and apparently he was lobotomized as well as probed.

      • I’m cracking up over the “probable anal probing” comment. I think that happened to my stbx too! Too funny.

  • Yup, yup and yup.

    Mindfuck channel for me: 2 years of harassment (stalking?) which included drive-bys, finding ways around my blocks (no kids – no need for continued communication), different email addresses, showing up at my work events (!!), crashing my work holiday party etc. The messages went from: “I’M ANGRY – ROAR” to “Please, please respond to me, PLEASE”, to…well, actually now come to think of it, I don’t think there was a Charm setting on this boob-tube.

    There is no “mindfucking like the mindfucking that comes when you finally say Enough of This SHIT. I’m DONE.”. That is so true.

    • It was the moment that I realized how severely disordered and unstable this freak was/is.

  • Ya, my cheater thought I was just going to walk away. Nope. He wanted to handle everything between ‘us.’ But when he was trying to convince me that his $10,000 tractor was really only worth $5000 – I knew he was going to try to manipulate things. And he has. Then he cried one time about how he knows I’m going to take everything away from him. And then the time he asked that I didn’t take ‘stuff’ from the house because then the kids will have nothing left to come home to and it would look too ‘different’ for them. Well guess what cheater – the only thing in that house that should have mattered is GONE thanks to you. If our kids care about the ‘stuff’ in that house more than the marriage YOU destroyed, then there is something wrong with our kids. When he cried about me ‘taking everything from him,’ all I did was look at him and think “Wow. This is YOUR FAULT! NOT MINE. YOU did this to yourself.”
    It’s funny how I am fighting for ‘material’ posessions that I really could care less about. My marriage and family was WAY more important than ‘stuff,’ yet that is ALL these cheaters are concerned with – losing thier precious fishing poles or pool sticks or money.
    I’m not falling for it. I don’t really want his crap – but I will take it because he no longer deserves it. Jerk

    • Wow LadyStrange, so eerie, my X used pretty much the same playbook as your cheater!

  • Mine also used the ,”We have been good friends for 29 yrs I expect that to continue routine.” Nope, don’t think so. I don’t ever want to see your cheating ass again. That was when I first filed for divorce. Then it was, “Lets use the same attorney and save money” routine. Meaning,” you pay for it all while I screw you over.” Nope that not going to happen either. He fast turned into, “Your a bitch”. Yep, got that one right. There was no Cable on his TV. Just those 3 channels.

    • After dropping a bomb in my life and leaving, my ex sent an email the next morning that said “Good morning! I’d like to get together today to tell you about how this can all go. I envision us laughing together in the future and staying good friends.” I couldn’t believe it. I was in shock and hadn’t slept all night, felt like I’d been hit by a mack truck and was so emotional I couldn’t stand being in my own skin. I told him to stay the hell away from me, and that was the last time I saw him until after the divorce was final. I’ve only seen him briefly a couple of times since.

      • “Good morning! I’d like to get together today to tell you about how this can all go. I envision us laughing together in the future and staying good friends.”

        I just barked with laughter at that! They’re not only entitled to do unconscionable things, they’re also entitled to the full and cheerful approval of those people they’ve destroyed. Although, ya know, being a ‘good guy’ he’ll give you some time to come round to it. And then you can all hang out together and have a laff! Go on picnics! And boat rides! And to county fairs! You can hold the camera and take pictures of them sharing a milkshake together with one of those curly heart-shaped ‘two person’ straws! He can swing the sledgehammer down and ring the bell on the Test Your Strength game while his ‘two ladies’ giggle and coo and clap for him — and you can all share the prize of the cuddly plush unicorn.

  • Four years out, and my EX spends most of his time on the self-pity station now. He occasionally attempts charm and receives absolutely no response from me. And his rage is both rarer and slightly more controlled because he now knows that I do call the police if he threatens me or trespasses. But self-pity, well, that one just never grows old as far as he is concerned.

    Unfortunately, it is also the station that the kids still listen to. They can hear the false notes in the charm and they know the rage is a problem, but it is just too hard for them not to feel sorry for dad sometimes and to take me to task for not “helping” him or being more “understanding.”

    I remember when I first read this column and how useful I found it. Just realizing that this pattern is typical made it less scary and made me feel more able to control my life–because no contact is the best response to all of the channels (in so far as you can go NC when there are kids involved.)

    • Yes, complete NC is impossible with kids. I keep mine to the very rare (3 times a year or less) face to face encounters and those are usually school related. Otherwise, texts and emails. Even those encounters do show the charm, rage, self-pity cycle.

  • I can’t believe how accurately this describes my experience. Except my XH went from charm to logic to self pity and crying to rage and then start again. Once I lawyered up he accused me of everything he was doing. But it is the charm / self pitying stages that they show to everyone else. It was only after a long period of time that others started to see his ‘rage’ stage that they started to understand.

    ‘When a narcissist can no longer control you, they will instead try to control how others see you.’

    • “When a narcissist can no longer control you, they will instead try to control how others see you.”

      So perfect, Free!! Mine cycled through the self-pity to get us to be friends (“my friend has cancer, DD2 won’t talk to me”), then his quiet rage where he put me down & blamed me for the demise of the relationship. Waiting to hear what happened at a dinner party last night where it looked like he was going to launch a subtle public relations salvo against me as the bitter, sad, lonely dog-lady X.

    • Free, that is so true. we had no children together, so no contact has been easy. but over the holidays he had spoken to many people trying to re write history where he was not a brooding killjoy jerk who tried to isolate me. it’s that I was too flirtatious and rambunctious and his shitty sullen attitude at public events was him PRE anticipating that I would be too outgoing and spend my time with others. he spews this nonsense not knowing that years ago everyone nicknamed him ” Senor Shitface” . oh. and I was not the one who cheated with neighborhood crack whores. they have known about that for years, too.

    • i didn’t know about the 3 channel thing when i was going through it and it really messed me up until i went NC. my XH is permanently stuck in the pity party mode and it helps alot to read everyones comments. takes the anger out of it all for me, he is just so pathetic. i call it having the longest temper tantrum in history

  • A common theme is that they don’t care about YOU. You are just a source of cake.

    During one of my reconciliation attempts which was one of the most emotional, raw, gut-wrenching periods of my life, my gut told me she was perhaps in contact again with the OM. So I go back into sleuth mode (fucked up in its own right i suppose but hey) and I find her journal, and during this intense period of attempting to rebuild our marriage, not a single mention of me, not a single mention of our therapist, not a single mention of our marriage, but entry after entry of how she is still in love with the OM even though fate is such that they can’t be together. She is so proud of how courageous she was to find true love even though he turned out to be an asshole. Entry after entry about him still, years after. Not one mention of our marriage or me.

    They don’t care about you. You are just a servant.

    The charm is fake, the rage and self-pity may have some truth to them, but backed by it all is lack of empathy and entitlement.

    • Buddy, your story struck chord with me as it was very similar to my cheating ex-wife. My ex – like yours – seemed so disillusioned about their “courageous” attempts at “true love”. (what a bunch of inept idiots). Is that what true love really means to them? Obviously, yes. What I never understood is don’t they know that once the glitter and sparkles fade from their “true love” (I am being completely facetious about true love) relationship what are they then left with? Don’t they know that it fades and true love isn’t about that feeling?

      • I think their true love is a few things. 1) fear of being vulnerable to their current spouse – fear of being loved by their current spouse. 2) Entitlement – they are entitled to more and better love. 3) Fantasy is easier than reality – they escape to this fantasy that they convince themselves is reality rather than invest in their real life and their real marriage to a person who is actually committed to them. 4) An attempt to upgrade to someone with more money and power. 5) The new love doesn’t know their crappy side, so they can believe they don’t have that crappy side while they send each other lyrics cut and pasted from Springsteen and Joni Mitchell.

        So rather be vulnerable to someone who is present and engaged and actually knows them, the pretend to be vulnerable to a complete fantasy stranger and thing they are being courageous and vulnerable.

        In the end, if with my BRILLIANT 🙂 analysis, I don’t understand it. We were a family. A Mom and a Dad and lovely children all together going through this life taking care of each other, except that really, we weren’t.

        Perhaps I’m just defensive and it is all as simple as she fell out of love with me, and this is how I avoid feeling rejection by modeling her as a full-on narcissist.

        But in either case, the trauma, the hurt, the pain, the ripping apart the complete fabric of my life and my kids’ life is real, and it sucks.

        • Hi Buddy

          I know exactly how you feel. I have been in your shoes minus the children which I am sure must make it much more difficult and devastating. When I read these comment pages and tale after tale of inhumanity and monstrous behaviour and the wanton destruction my heart gets heavy. You have my fullest empathy and I wish you the very best in pulling through.

          I personally think Philip K. Dick’s dark visions of the future are here. These are not human beings, they are androids. These characters are plastic people and they seem to multiply at an alarming rate. There is more and more of them among us now. I decided to put all my energy into understanding this phenomenon of android spouses. By understanding I mean like a scientist in a lab, cold, emotionally detached from the subject and curious.

          The more I understood the less it hurt and I managed to pull myself out of my dark pit of despair. A cognitive approach rather than an emotional one, it worked for me but I don’t know if it will work for you. Your pain bothers me and l want you to feel better but all I can do is to tell you how I did it. I am a new member and I started a thread where I introduced myself and told my story. Feel free to stop by and share your thoughts. Wish you the best.

          • From an objective and scientific view of the state of the world today (violence, divorce, cheating spouses, etc.,), I think people need to dig deep into the science of attachment (attachment theory, the theory of trauma, the science of love, etc.,). I truly think – after years of trying to untangle the skein – that this is the answer. Personality disorders are also known as attachment disorders. Attachment speaks the language of empathy. It is all about the responsiveness of the mothers (and other caregivers, including the father) in the formative years when the empathy synapses are developing. It is so crucial to human existence – and not in the creation of more android life – that we instil empathy early. Here are a few interesting links (overwhelming, I know, but science can be that way):





            Keep in mind that it is not just adopted children that can suffer attachment disorders, but children in “intact” families that are dysfunctional in some way (and about 87% of them have some sort of dysfunction).




            So ChumpLady may say our cheating spouses have an empty elevator shaft where their soul should be (and that’s an apt description) but it’s probably a lot more likely that they have an attachment impairment/disorder (which amounts to about the same thing). Addictions are attachment disorders – whether it’s drugs, alcohol, shopping, sex, porn, gambling – whatever – it’s a way to fill the void. Always.

            • My cheater was adopted. Her parents, who were great to me and seemingly capable of nurturing and loving and giving, adopter her when she was just 5 weeks old.

              But I have often wondered if that adoption played a role in her narcissism.

              I know this is not at all fair to people who were adopted, but if I ever look for a marriage partner again, I may avoid folks who were adopted, just based on my experience. I know that’s not fair, but I do wonder.

        • I think your assessment is brilliant Buddy – they are afraid of vulnerability with their current and committed partners. Real, deep intimacy is scary – fantasy is not.

          • I don’t think most cheaters are afraid of intimacy, except with themselves, of course. They really don’t give a shit. People are interchangeable, because they see them only as objects.

        • And that “True Love in Fantasy land” is based on 3 months of emailing, conversations on the phone, facebooking and all up 7 hours of time spent in each other’s company, in public eating out. But it’s True Love and they are Soul Mates!!!! What the…..
          And all the time playing the loving husband and father. Although he was drifting further and further into alcohol addiction, as the Hoe was encouraging that. She thought I’d kick him out and not support him. Messed up people seriously messed up!!!

          It’s interesting reading back over all the evidence that she finally started to see some light about 6 months into the affair that he wasnt all he was “cracked” up to be. Quote: “The fantasy you and the Reality you are very different”, he just begged her not to leave him and grovelled while in the background grooming 2 other women as back up or side dishes.

          Seriously sick people. I just told them all to go get help and real lives.

  • My ex was actually the one to file (I suspect it might have been due to pressure from his TWU WUV) but he had in his mind we would be doing this ourselves. When I wised up and lawyered up you cannot imagine the RAGE it was waaaay over the top. He talked as if I had betrayed HIM.

    What a maroon. 😉

  • This is 100% spot on. My cheater ex did this exact thing. So sad he had an affair. Then, FLIP!, so angry I wanted a divorce. Then, FLIP!, this is so hard on him. Then, FLIP!, how dare I mention his affair to others.

    OMG. It was a mindfuck.

    How do I know my ex cheater is low on supply? He answers my texts and thanks me for chats. Yes, I ignore him. If he has an adequate source of supply somewhere else, I don’t hear from him.

    It’s absolutely predictable. And pathetic.

  • I’ve got a different sort. No charm, no rage, no self pity. Just business as usual. He (63) has a Christian image to keep shiny…which for him, means that he always has to look like the Benevolent One. Okay, I’ll bite…you’re ON. I’m liking THAT channel…leave it right there. I’ll take the house, everything in it, BOTH of us waive Spousal Support (just in case he becomes destitute later on down the road). I keep my business, he keeps his…ect. Clean cut.

    Agreed, signed by the Judge, delivered. No spin. Done. No Lawyer$. Soft landing. Thank you Jesus!

    Luckily for me, the EA broke up when I confronted them both face to face before it appears to have gone to a PA (my husband was clearly “working on it”, but I caught it early on)…so there was no “influence” being exerted by her to “help him” with putting together our Settlement Agreement. She (42) had decided that I was a “force to be reckoned with”, became afraid of me and instead, turned her “sights” on to his son (24)…and got him. Then her mask fell off once she moved in with him (she was scary violent and sucked thousands of dollars from him), and his son ended up having to move to get away from her. Reminds me of watching an African documentary where the lion chases the large wildebeest and ends up catching a weaker yearling instead.

    • Wait! She couldn’t have your ex so she preyed upon and snagged his 24 year old son?!?!?

      So fucked up! What a sick skank!!!!

      • Yep…but I think she was simply using my husband with her sights on his son all along. You know…feign interest in the old man, charm him, get him all interested (not a difficult thing to do). This got her in closer proximity to his son. The business is such that my husband and stepson both work at the same small business where all of this transpired. My husband would invite her into the back room “for lunches” alone on the days that his son had off…working her towards the “kill”. Both my husband and his son wanted to bag the same woman…she knew it. But I became aware of it and confronted it…too late, she had already seduced my husband’s son by then. After all, my husband had to go home after work to me…but his son was “available” when the day is done.

          • Yep…I hope he is satisfied with whatever thrills he got. It cost him everything for his pursuit in that attempt/failure. But he’s into dopamine rushes at any cost. The secret thrills and fantasy of “possibilities” with the skank were surely worth it to him. Now he can have a go at anyone he wants…and I get a go at serenity and peace of mind.

            When I look back over the last 5 years particularly, I realize what I have gained for my efforts to “save our marriage”…a house, a business, a life w/o a “cheater wanna be”. “Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of my enemy”.

  • The order is incorrect. It is charm, and when that doesn’t work, self pity, when that doesn’t work, rage. I have a whole family like this, so no wonder I married a crap weasel and stayed married for 27 years. Ugh!
    No contact. All of them. To the name.
    I have other plans and it doesn’t include them.

  • I agree with the 3 channels and I also agree that they continue with these 3 channels post divorce.

    The kick in the pants I needed to file was when cheater stopped helping with the joint bills. We didn’t have a legal arrangement at that point so I think he thought he would control me with money. That backfired on him and of course he didn’t like it.

    Then he tuned to the rage channel and sent a scathing email letting me know that he had hired a trial lawyer (aren’t all attorneys trial lawyers) and that this guy was going to take me down. I’d better get ready for him to expose all my secrets (huh, I’m not the one with secrets). To which my response was *crickets*. Yes, it did concern me because I thought he would make stuff up but I certainly wasn’t going to let him know that.

    Then came self pity. A week before mediation he left me a message which I didn’t know I had because he was blocked on my phone (yes, you can still get VM depending on how you have them blocked – it just doesn’t notify you). In the message, he begged for us to get together and talk. I stupidly agreed to listen to his dribble about what he wanted.

    Charm came when it was time to sell the house. He offered no help whatsoever in cleaning out the house but he showed up on the day before closing out of the blue to let me know how much he missed me and wished we could be friends and hang out together. When that didn’t work, he changed to rage and told me that we wouldn’t see each other for a long time. Guess he thought I might miss him – uh, no, not seeing or hearing from him has been the best thing ever! Unfortunately, I know I will see him at our daughter’s games in the spring and yes, I’m dreading it but I’m sure the channels will be in full force.

  • Even cuter is how these people who left you after years of cheating actually expect your siblings and parents to still like let alone respect them. My brother thought he was a pompous ass before we found out about the hookers, Ashley Madison, his best friend’s wife, etc etc. I think if they ever run into each other (which is possible considering they live in the same city and baby bro is always out and about with clients) my beloved brother would offer to kick him in the nads. My SIL hated him on sight for some reason and whenever we had family gatherings she always stayed away from him and avoided any one on one conversations.
    NC and blocking the POS on all social media has helped to stop the triggering of rage and grief. Seeing Daddy dearest dropping messages on my kids’ FB etc made we want to punch the walls. He never acknowledged their existence unless they excelled at something that made Dad look good or did something to incur his wrath.
    I know the POS does not even think about me. I’m an afterthought from his former life. He just doesn’t want anyone to see him in a bad light. So if we were to ever see each other for a function with our children he’d want me to be all friendly like we just drifted apart instead of him collapsing our marriage from within.

    • Oh, just another chump, soooo much of this”
      “He just doesn’t want anyone to see him in a bad light. So if we were to ever see each other for a function with our children he’d want me to be all friendly like we just drifted apart instead of him collapsing our marriage from within.”

      Last time he sat next to me at an event I said loudly “I’m not here to play happy family with you, I’m not here to make you look good, you might want to sit one there.” He refused to move but I made my point.

    • I know, right? My ex still says he hopes he and various members of my family will be friends again one day. They wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire.

      • Linden, my family is neutral with the ex husband because they all say that he is a nice guy, even with all of the destruction he has caused. My sister commented yesterday that the ex lives in S.E. Asia because of the life style not the sex with his tart. I am going to have to have a serious chat with my sister because she doesn’t have a clue at all.

        • Maree–that’s awful. Your sister is clueless and lacks empathy to say that to you.

          Let her know your X’s “lifestyle” IS the young tart now.

          • Tempest, my sister can be and has been supportive of me but because she has never had to go through what I have, she does not understand. Just like I don’t understand what she has gone through with her illnesses over the years. However, I have been very supportive of her and I have shown her tremendous empathy and care. Sometimes I feel like I am still continuing to be the giver. We will have a chat in due course and I will set her straight because she is still very neutral as she doesn’t want to take sides and upset my 2 kids. She does know the treatment I have received from them but she has stated that she does not want to get caught in the middle. Me on the other hand would pull her 2 adult kids up whether they liked it or not.

            • ‘Don’t want to get caught in the middle’ = Switzerland = supporting other side by passive resistance.

        • For the lifestyle? Is she fucking daft? Its a third world country. They live in grass huts or slums, and thats if they are middle class. Her being the prostitot, shes not ‘middle class’ at all – its just another form of begging, just opening her legs to do it.
          Must be great to live in a slum, really. And have a bunch of vultures in the form of the mail order bride and her family trying to steal all of his money!
          The only Aussie guys who go there (excluding holidays) are the ones who got bounced out of the country by any self respecting woman – and have to get a mail order bride to do more than fart their way.

      • During bogus reconciliation, ex actually said to me, “Why is your mom angry at me? What did I ever do to HER?” He truly could not grasp why she might be upset I was back with him. Total lack of empathy.

  • I think the mindfuck is so important to understand, because chumps was that do-over. So we see the signs in the mindfuck signs of actual human engagement. The Disordered Cheaterpants is being charming! (DC must care.) Disordered Cheaterpants is in a rage! (DC must care.) Disordered Cheaterpants is so pitiful, so sad, so broken down with grief. (DC must care.)

    Because we can’t get genuine empathy and connection out of a disordered person, particularly a narcissist, we mistake the Mindfuck Channels for the real thing. Chances are, we are so used to those channels that they seem normal and familiar because we were being mindfucked and gaslighted and deceived, sometimes for years.

    No contact and learning about personality disorders is like hooking up to 300 channels of free cable for life.

  • I have no proof of this, and now it doesn’t matter cause I’ve sold our marital home and moved away, but, once satan realized i wasn’t backin down, I was divorcing him, every night when i would get home after work there would be some major catastrophe to contend with – it started with strange water leaks that couldn’t be explained once found…then electrical problems that – once found – were shown to have been exacerbated by the water leaks to the point of actual fires…

    …all that stopped once I lost my job and was at home most of the time.

    I think he wanted me to believe I just couldn’t live without him…dealing with all the problems actually made me stronger cause I was able – with help from family and friends – to fix all of them – and not burn up.

    Disordered, dangerous, entitled, abusive little brats. All of em!

    • When mine was given 30 days to vacate after the mediation agreement was signed lord knows what he did while I was at work. What I can tell you is I’ve had to hire a plumber, a drywall guy, an environmental specialist, and I need to replace the AC. Meanwhile the clothes washer stopped working and was fixed by a friend while the dishwasher leaks but still works so it can wait and the ice maker I turned off because it now leaks. This in the past two months. On the flip side, my kids now have a working bathrooms and are not using mine, My new AC unit will be much more efficient and save me money and like you said, I learned that I can handle this stuff. It didn’t beat me. It didn’t kill me. I got this. I can handle it.

      • AllOutofKibble I think it just FLOORS them when we just STAND and take over our own lives and thrive WITHOUT THEM! …then the smear campaign goes on HIGH…but, there again, we shoulder that pile of crap and heave it out of the way and SUNSHINE!!! 😀 I don’t even care what satan and his entourage think about me anymore. I KNOW the truth of what he did and how he used me for 36 years. I am stronger than I even knew I was…I know I was the catalyst for positive changes in his young life and I am sure he misses having me around to ‘take care of his life’…he has told me so…for whatever reason – hoovering??? Probably. I am all out of empathy and compassion for abusive users. I am beyond his lies and manipulations. I am NC with him and his entourage. CJ is right, the closed door becomes a quite amazing ‘picture window’ into the truth of what we were actually dealing with. CUE THE SUNSHINE 😀

      • AllOutofKibble…I just remembered…my washer and dryer died also! 😀 I LOVE my new, energy efficient set! Hehehehehe!!!

        …and all the things you had break…SAME HERE!!! INCLUDING the leaking ice maker and dishwasher!!!!


      • …hey…have a lot of us experienced these same household breakdowns???

        …and vehicle problems??? All of my tires went flat but one…EVERYDAY till satan had to move out…and…my BRAKE LINE was ‘cut’…my mechanic asked me if I had been ‘off roading’ my Jeep…uh…no!

        • Yep – same here, tons of mechanical problems. Saddam ripped out the condenser line on the a/c, so I had water leaking out to a back bedroom for a month before I noticed it. In addition to a dryer being on the fritz at the same time. I think it’s a combination of deliberate sabotage, in addition to Cheaters mistreat appliances horribly (as they mistreat people). My ex used to cram 10 loads of laundry into 1 wash cycle. My repairman used to tell me, “these front loading washers, you need to baby. You can’t cram 3 comforters, 20 towels, 10 pairs of jeans, and 20 undershirts into one load” (which is what Saddam used to do), so no wonder I was always going through washers!

          • Yep…mine would start a fire in our wood stove using gasoline once we agreed to end the marriage. He’d pour Half & Half on the floor to “give the dog a treat” just after I mopped it, and it would splat up onto the cupboards too. He’d get her chasing him all over the new hard wood floors “for exercise” KNOWING she would leave traction marks all over them (big heavy dog). He would throw fruit pits into the garbage disposal knowing it could break it if I did not check it first. He would leave the bathroom wall heater on all day (after I already left the house for work) KNOWING it has an electrical short in it. He would run the propane heater all day knowing that I would eventually have to pay to have it refilled when he finally left for good. He would start my dog to howling first thing in the morning along with him, just to try and upset my coffee quiet time. He would broil bacon on the top rack of the oven knowing it has started fires in the past. I have asked him repeatedly not to do these things. All these passive/aggressive “innocent” things.

          • Wow huh!!!! Amazing that they all really, truly are just the same! Same underhanded tactics with no concern for the mess they leave behind for us to clean up and live through, pay for…

        • “my mechanic asked me if I had been ‘off roading’ my Jeep…uh…no!”

          Off topic, but it’s pretty well known that jeeps get sulky and moody if you never take them offroad. Could explain the ‘problems’ you’re having w/ it. 😉

          • leostotch…the brake line was ‘cut’ according to my mechanic…which were all replaced by my mechanic a few years before and so therefore basically new…when he looked at it he just assumed that I had been off roading due to the ‘cut’ line…

    • Just after the divorce my microwave caught fire and a few weeks later my kettle caught fire. My children started to get worried that the house would burn down next. I don’t think my XH had anything to do with it but I do know that I was still experiencing some weird PTSD symptoms because every time some weird thing happened around the house like something was misplaced or suddenly appeared my immediate gut reaction was to feel like my XH sneaked into the house to make me crazy. I don’t think he ever did but I was so trained by all his previous gaslighting behaviour (hiding my house keys, hiding my car keys, slyly breaking my coffee mugs etc etc ) that it was like I could feel his ghost.

      • I suffered through the same paranoia, Free. I think it is just normal to become paranoid after being soul raped by someone you trust above all others.

  • Cheater propoganda blares on all of those stations and you find yourself tuning in at times cause you just cant quite believe that you dont need your cheater….like u need that 3 set of Sham Wow cleaning cloths. How will u live without Sham Wow… What were u doing before Sham Wow? Treat all that shit that your cheater is serving up as an info -mmercial. It is all just as fabricated and with no money back guarantee/ warranty.

  • “the mindfuck channel only has three stations” Charm, Rage & Self-pity. I never got any of these emotions because the ex planned my exit, pushed me out and closed the door firmly behind me. I got jot from him because he is a cold and empty vessel and he truly showed me that I was gone, unwanted and unloved. In hindsight I was way too accommodating and just walked. He controlled everything and he is still controlling everything with his 23 year old prostit-tot (thank you for that one Lania 🙂 ). He is a predator who plans everything right down to setting the narrative that I “just left”. Everyone believed him then and they still do years later. I meant not a thing to him whatsoever but this time around he is really in love with his carnal acquisition and he is holding on for grim death. He has learned the lingo in a very short time and is now an expert on everything to do with Cambodia and he is blending in like he was born there. He will not let her or her boys go. Well, he is 63 and she is 23, so she just might kill him. A girl can hope, can’t she !

    • When I read your posts Maree, I can’t believe the similarities of your X to mine.
      Looking back cheater’s exit was calculated and carefully planned.
      It brings tears when I think about how confused and naive I was while he purposely tormented me.
      Cheater walked out after he did everything to make me feel worthless, unwanted, unloveable, and underserving of respect. Cheater has done everything imaginable to hurt me and humiliate me,
      including alienating our son. This past year my son came to visit me and afterwards cheater ridiculed him
      for visiting me. I asked what X said, all my son would say it’s derogatory and demeaning. I haven’t heard form my son since
      I feel like I was married to the clone of your Cheater.
      X is wicked, and relentless, and continues to do whatever he can to destroy me, which were his last words to me as he walked out.

      Chump Lady’s site has been a Godsend

      • brit, I am truly sorry for what your ex and son are putting you through. They do have a way of making us feel worthless when we know that we are not because it makes them feel big and then they have control over us. If it makes you feel any better brit my 2 kids, 36 (D) and 33 (S) don’t even acknowledge that I am alive. It tears me up inside and I know that things can never be the same ever again. The damage that has been done cannot be undone. I have tried to make contact with both my daughter and son but they don’t want contact with me. I know what a good mum I was and also a good wife but somehow they have turned around and painted me as a crazy lady and a bad mum as my son has stated. I have to say that sadly when the 3 people I have devoted my life to all band together and say the same thing, well people are going to believe them not me. So I live with the humiliation of being talked about and run down by my own children. That is something that I would never have done to my own Mother.
        You stated that your X is wicked, and relentless, and continues to do whatever he can to destroy you, which were his last words to you as he walked out. Well, he hasn’t succeeded and he won’t. Hang in their brit and I like to think that your son will grow up and see the truth. It is too late for my 2 though.
        As you say, Chump Lady’s site has been a Godsend. Amen to that dear girl.

  • This is so true. Been cheating for years with the same woman. Left me four times over five years. I finally filed. He stopped talking to me for eight months. Total silent treatment. I had to get a court order to get a measly bit to pay the bills he stopped paying on the day he walked out. Last week in court (I wasn’t there) to sign the divorce agreement, my lawyer said he smelled of alcohol. They I get a crying phone call over the weekend about how I am the love of his life and he hopes to remarry me. I went to my lawyer on Wednesday and now we are waiting to get the final judgment in a few months. NOW HE IS SORRY? Then I get a call at work on Monday that he is drinking and wants me. He never wants the gf again. So I say sorry, I can’t help you. His worker takes him to in patient rehab at the hospital where he was for a week. Now I am worried he will be coming after me (not violently) and I have that same old sick feeling, a knot in my stomach. Why can he see that leaving me alone will be the only kind thing at this point? Because even now, only he is important. Says he will always be there for me but…uh…he wasn’t..and also, he was the one hurting me. So, wtf?

  • If you really listen to them when they are crying – it’s all about their own pain. Even when they say something like “I don’t want to hurt you” or “I don’t want to hurt OW” you must listen; they will tell you that it’s because it hurts THEM. Pay attention if you are in the midst of the cycle of abuse, make no mistake that is what it is. And be careful because some of our spouses will step up from rage if nothing else works, it can be dangerous. If you’ve been dealing with the cycle of abuse and unaware then you’ve stomped your intuition into the ground and you need to get it back. Read “Gift of Fear”, this book helped me get back in touch with what I lost, trusting my gut. I gotta get back to work. Jedi Hugs!

    • I didn’t hear anything remotely close to “I don’t want to hurt you.” But – he did tell me “I’m not trying to screw you over in the divorce. Really, I’m not.” BWAHHHHHHHH. Right. Then how come you cashed in your Roth 4 days after you got served and your lawyer JUST found out? (Because MY lawyer told his lawyer.) How come you are trying to convince everyone in the nation our marital home is worth $70,000 less than it was appraised at? And suddenly the boat no longer works. Neither does our son’s dirt bike. Neither does the van. Neither does his motorcycle. Funny how all this stuff went out of commission right after I left. Whatever.

  • Charm, rage, and self-pity sums it up for the disordered. I have never seen such rage when I hired my own lawyer after the Limited wanted a divorce and thought he could repeat his cycle of blaming his cheating on me, the pick me dance, and stepping back into my life with no consequences. And I did want him back until I saw his mask slip. There was a part of me that could no longer muster up the strength necessary to fight to stay with someone who had so much control over my emotions.

    I was at the lowest point of my life having lost my mother. What kind of a person abandons his wife, the mother of his children when she needs him the most?
    There was something so creepy about the enjoyment he was getting from my pain. And this increased to another level once I was forced by my therapist to make the move and get the best lawyer to protect myself. Only then did I see the person my therapist described as a narcissist who never respected me, didn’t love me, and took my very soul. From that moment on his mask was off for all family members to see.

    It inconvenienced my children because he implanted himself into my daughters house, pretending he was living there while living with his whore the whole time. He used her to keep his business truck at her house and to keep me from going to her house as I refused to be anywhere near him. At some point my daughter thought I would be better if we were on speaking terms and I held my ground. During the divorce he tried to play my daughter pretending he didn’t understand the language in the proposed settlement while contacting my lawyer and making demands. He got caught in his lies and she saw the manipulation. And he cycled through every channel to regain control. I was always one step ahead highlighting his actions. On the one hand he was telling my children how broke he was while taking vacations with the whore within months of being thrown out of my house. He abandoned his granddaughter and blamed it on me. Again, I set boundaries, setting up the time she was to be with me and he had to work around MY schedule with her. Currently, he is alone with his whore with very little contact with his amazing children and granddaughter. My children call him out and will not tolerate his channel switching.

    Focusing on myself was key over the next year and a half. I used my anger to PROVE to myself and my children I was not the person he described. I support my son, granddaughter at the expense of going without many things to do so. They saw my ongoing struggle to maintain my home and to buy simple necessities like food and clothing without depending on anyone. Everyone of my family members saw that he hid within our family while I made him look good for years. Protecting them from this for years was regrettable as they had to go through the same pain as I did once the mask was off and they had to accept he is a sociopath.

    Last night my son planned a graduation party for my daughter who earned her bachelors degree. It was just our family with a few friends. We cooked together, set up decorations, planned the games we would play, and had an amazing time. My life is full of hope and love. The fight, energy, and love I wasted on him has come full circle. I passed him on the road twice this weekend and resisted my urge to flip him off. I ignored. Just another vehicle passing by with a stranger in the drivers seat. I have no doubt he will continue to use charm, rage and self-pity to control others in his life. It no longer matters to me, I gained a life.

    • Well done donna. Isn’t it the best feeling when we know and acknowledge that we don’t want them back, ever? I couldn’t be within a bulls roar of my ex husband now. I certainly will never pass him on the street and I am grateful for that. I too have gained a life like you and CN. In fact, I bumped into an acquaintance a few days ago and we chatted and not about my ex who never rated a mention. My friend commented that he has never seen me so relaxed. I am aware of changes within me and I am happy about them, very happy indeed. Keep up the great work donna.

      • Maree it is so freeing not to give a fuck. And we had those “special” ones who erased us as if we never existed. That was THE most painful aspect along with flaunting the fact that he had this much power and control over me for years. The Limited never wanted to be ‘friends’, rather he said she wouldn’t like it if he had a relationship with me. Just WOW. Now I can laugh at this because I have my power and control back and chose to never have contact with him ever again. Insert, OW wanting to make ‘piece’ with me once I no longer cared. What I know now is they lose control of the narrative once we move on. I used to fear what he said about me to others. Lets give a hearty laugh that their audience has dwindled to the few people who listen yet inside KNOW the truth. All that matters is that WE know the truth and their audience can SEE the contradictions regardless of their narrative. Behind all that power and control they always prove to be just what they are, insecure, pontificating, assholes trying to maintain a spot on the self created pedestal which in itself is yet another object representing their inability to connect to anything real.

  • They best way to see this disorder clearly is through a closed door. Who would have thought.

  • My Mr. Disordered Cheaterpants “can’t understand” why we can not be friends. My Mr. Disordered Cheaterpants called our children’s therapist to ask if she could talk with me that all he wants is for us be friends and excelente co-parents. My Mr. Disordered Cheaterpants then texted me saying that I’m a sick person who needs help and he feel very sorry for me. Since I didn’t answer to my Mr. Disordered Cheaterpants he texted me again saying that he has no feelings for me.

    Really??…thank you mindfucker dumbass for letting me know again! You cheated on me many times with different women and men, don’t you think I got your message long time ago?? These idiots can’t stand when they lose control over our lives.

  • Now that we are divorced, the only channel I get is rage. Our contact is restricted to emails on Our Family Wizard and they are predictably full of threats, lies, insults and orders.

    It is our 17-year old son who receives the full-on mindfuckery of the channel switching. Asshole X sent him a long string of text messages which began with sad sausageness: “I just want to see you and talk to you.” “Thank God you haven’t blocked me like your brother and sister.” When Son refused to pick up the phone, Asshole X flipped to rage: “Your mother is a liar. I’m going to go back to court and modify the custody agreement so you will have to live with me.” Son, understandably shaken, stopped responding and was subjected to the charm assault: “I love you so much. I will always work with you. I can’t wait to see you at visitation.”

    Son and I printed out the texts, read them together and discussed the mindfuckery. Son decided to go NC with Asshole X and only see him at the required visitation time. Asshole X’s disordered mindfuckery has cost him the one family member left who had even the slightest desire to see him. And . . . wait for it . . . Asshole X now blames me for Parental Alienation. Cue the rage.

    • Eve, this is remarkably similar to my teen son’s experience with his father. Mine went a year refusing to communicate with his dad, and wow, did that trigger a barrage of abuse — a year-long circle through rage, self pity and charm over and over again — along with a torrent of rage and abuse from ex’s sisters. Unfortunately, son eventually backed down and is now in contact with ex once again. It’s an endless mindfuck. I know it is damaging my son, but he is 19 now and I am not going to interfere with his relationship with his dad.

    • Eve: Constant reminders that one can’t reason with the disordered.

      So’s you don’t feel alone, here is an excerpt from my X’s latest missive, “Relationships fail for a reason; and yes, whether you’ll ever admit it or not, you played your part in the failure of this one — and in destroying my relationship with DD2. I honestly don’t know how you can live with that. I would never have done that to you, never — no matter what you had done.”

      My therapist remarked (sarcastically), “You sure are powerful to alter your daughter’s thinking and her relationship with her father.” Yeah, I’m almighty Zeus. Eyeroll

      • I’m glad you are all powerful also Tempest. My kids are S21 and D23 and poor sad, sausage has been going around saying that I do not “let” the kids have a relationship with him. Damn I wish I had had those superpowers of total child control when they were pre-teens and teenagers. My life would have been so much easier with me in complete control of their thoughts and feelings.
        Now when the kids do try with him, all he can do is talk about himself, text and want them to pity him. Unfortunately for him, the kids are not wanting to have the same relationship with him that they used to have when we were an intact family. My daughter had hoped that he would become a better dad, somehow, but that did not happen.

        • I’d pay good money for those superpowers to actually control DD2, who is 14 and at risk every other day of being sold on eBay because of her behavior!

          “My daughter had hoped that he would become a better dad, somehow, but that did not happen.”

          That the sad thing, DeeL, we’re not the only ones who suffer from their character disorders.

          • My S21 and D19 went totally NC with their father last January when he left. They have not responded to any of his texts, emails, phone calls, FB requests, cards or surprise visits to their college (that was some high drama). He has not given me one cent to support them and I know they are better off without him in their lives.

            Still, I ache for the damage inflicted upon on our children. My sweet baby girl sat in my lap and cried, her loving heart shattered. My college senior son lives at home so his brother and I won’t be alone. You know who deserves to feel some righteous rage? We do! The left behind. But our flipper works and we move on towards love, happiness, peace. Things Asshole X will never know.

            • Ah Eve, my two older children, now young adults, have seen their father 3 or 4 times in 4 years, and the youngest now,16, not once in all that time. Their father sends a card on birthday and Christmas and that is all. He does not care or ask how they are. He never even bothered to try to see them at college after D-Day, barely went out of his way to deal with them afterwards. Just left and sort of dusted us all off and moved on. It is amazing that our exes are willing to make such devastating choices ….choices that jeopardize and destroy their relationship even with their own children. They are truly monstrous.

      • Yup, the narcissism is amazing. My ex put all the parental alienation stuff in his counter filing paperwork. My response: I attached the inappropriate emails and text messages he sent our daughter where he justifies falling in love with the OWife while married to me, etc. Crickets, and he settled/agreed to the child visitation agreement. I almost wish we had gone in front of the judge to hear the judge’s view on ex’s filing.

        I sure wish I had thought controlling super powers! I could guarantee my depressed child’s safety!

      • I think rage-charm-self pity is the way narcs control us constantly, not only when we divorce them. I received a major rant when I got upset with Mindfuckmaster (MFM) because he came back from a week vacation to the beach with our pre-teen daughters and instead of going alone with them as he said he was, he had a new girlfriend there to greet them, take them around. This is the first girlfriend that my daughters have met since our separation two years ago (and it is not the OW). The problem for me was the way my older daughter (13) found out about the relationship when shewalked in on them kissing when she entered a room to get a towel. She was devastated but MFM did “damage control” with long walk- talks on the beach after which, according to him, the girls approved his relationship and gave him their blessing. I found out about all of this AFTER the trip, when MFM tells me that it was just a coincidence that she was with them during that week because he had planned this a long time before meeting her. But guess what: the lovely unemployed girlfriend moved in with him a week later while my daughters were visiting! And they started playing happy new family immediately! And all I can do is tell them what I think is not OK with all of this (for their father to go so quickly and impose new girlfriend on them). When I told him that it was not OK even if his girlfriend was Ms. Universe, Nobel Prize Winner and Mother Teresa all-in-one he got extremely angry and said that he could do whatever he wanted (“you are not the boss of me”) and that he had a right to be happy after all that he suffered in the last two years (self-pity) and that this woman made him very happy (of course!) and that our daughters are OK with who he is and very happy. Their only problem is when they speak with me and. according to him, I mess them up by telling them my version of the story (the truth!). So, it is not his actions that are bad, but my interpretation of them and the way I tell my daughters about them. Uneffingbelievable!

        • I love how they always think the kids are “okay” with their choices, and “get them.” The BS that has rolled out of my X’s mouth (when I know firsthand what the kids actually think about him) is mindboggling. Narcissists have a completely different view of the world and other people than we do, and they are not much swayed by evidence that contradicts their view.

    • I agree Eve, since the divorce and discard he is stuck in a rage mode. The Limited sent my granddaughter horrible text messages demanding to know why he wasn’t personally invited to events after abandoning her for almost a year. And I’ve learned to let him hang himself as advised by my therapist. I have a tendency to react and feared he would continue to shift the blame my way. In truth, the rage highlights entitlement in the once self described ‘simple’ guy he professed to be while leading a double life. I think the deal breaker for my children was when he called the police and filed a complaint against me for a list of accusations including breaking his windshield and tampering with something in my daughters home. The Limited claimed he lived there and blatantly lied to the police. The officer laughed when I told him about the situation and that this was NOT his residence. She had to change her locks because he had a key to her home. Being the manipulative asshole he is, the whore became his mouthpiece and continued to harass me in public and to one of my daughters.
      Now my oldest daughter has no contact, by choice. This does not stop him from trying to implant himself in my other daughters life trying to defend his rage. She will speak to him however, it is very guarded and usually ends in him raging. The self pity and charm channels no longer work and rage is what they are left with. Yes, he was walking on thin ice as my therapist repeatedly stated. Now I believe he is drowning in his own self pity with only a skanky whore who shares his rage. Fucking Karma.

  • I thought about the 3 channels today while reading an email from Narkles the Clown about how he’s taking the kids on a trip this weekend, but can’t talk about summer plans until after his mother has her 10 hour transfusion tomorrow for her cancer that appears to be coming back.

    Wait….whaaat? Can’t talk bout summer right now because this momma is about to have a transfusion Tuesday but he can fly away Friday like it’s nothing. Oh, that’s right I wasn’t supposed to get caught up in the details I was supposed to pay attention to the “my mother has cancer again” self pity channel.

    Instead, thanks to the blessed power of No Contact, my mind simply said “not my circus, not my monkey!”

  • This is spot on.

    When I was attempting to save our marriage (almost yakked just typing that), my cheater would get angry and tell me to stop pushing her. After my divorce hearing and after everything was finalized, the cheater and I were waiting for our papers. She attempted to strike up a casual conversation with me (charm channel). She asked about my cats, said she still cares about me, and asked me why I looked “so elegant” in my suit. I fully ignored her and told I didn’t want to talk about anything personal. 10 minutes after we parted ways, I get a VM about how sorry she was, that she will never have anyone like me, asked for forgiveness, said she still loved me (self-pity channel). And by the way she had just come from spending the night at the OM’s house.

    • “…I get a VM about how sorry she was, that she will never have anyone like me, asked for forgiveness, said she still loved me…”

      Insert *he* and our cheaters could be brother and sister, LOL! Guess we should feel blessed? Not!

    • That illustrates why they are disordered.

      That reminds me of when my cheater would act lovey-dovey with me when (as discovered laters) just moments before she’d been texting her ‘tru-wuv’.

      I have so many examples of hypocritical juxtaposed behaviors that make absolutely no sense and can only be considered a form of use and abuse.

  • Yes. After I discovered Shmoopie had been in the picture for 18 months, not the 3 weeks he claimed, He actually contorted his body while he cried and wined and said ” This has been so hard on me! Can’t you see I’ve lost 10 pounds with all the stress? Followed by a very weak and winey, “We can save this, right?

    Um, WRONG!

    The Valentines Day card I got a month after DDay (#4? OMG) said

    “I’m sorry for all the hurt I’ve caused you. I know I didn’t handle this very well, and I haven’t treated you very well”

    (Minimize much? You mean our Genuine Naugahyde romantic getaway weekends Wreckonciliation of nearly a year while Schmoopie was already firmly established in your life? Don’t get me started on the rest of it…)

    “Lets stay friends, the best friends we have been for the last 37 years. I believe we will both be happier.”

    Chumps, if you think he will change, and you can fix it, think again. Mine cheated on me year 3 and 4 with supposed 1 night stands… He showed great remorse, we did counciling. We worked through it. I truly believed we were past all that. Fast forward 30 years, and I’ve come to realize he never stopped cheating on me. The dots are connecting. He’s probably had 10 affairs… I wish I had trusted my 19 year old self who thought him a conceited and immature 27 year old and never dated him in the first place! He looked good on paper, handsome, a rocket scientist, charming, athletic, fun….

    Didn’t see liar, cheater, user, manipulator. Now I’m defending myself in Lawsuits because of his lack of ethics and misdeeds.

    WHO ARE YOU? How did you fool me for decades? After you screw up our lives, its easier to move on to Little blond widow Schmoopie, because “Its just easy with her”. Sure, easy to lie to a new one who thinks you hung the moon!

    Listen to your Gut Feelings Chumps. Before you allow them to use the best years of your life with them, for it all to explode decades later at much higher cost.

  • As a chump, I’d like to point out that these are also the three “tactics” I cycled through for the 6 months I did the pick-me dance. They seem to result from emotions that most of us go through when faced with loss (whether its a genuine loss or loss of kibbles) – anger, fear, embarrassment, etc. They also play on strong emotions that we might want the other person to feel (rage – fear, self pity – caring, charm – loss, etc) when we’re manipulating them – yes, the pick me dance is also a manipulation.

    • Ihsanm, I strongly disgree that the pick-me dance is the same three channels, and it seems you misunderstand the very definition of manipulation.

      When someone manipulates, they are faking or exaggerating an emotion in order to get a certain response. We can tell that the three channels are fake because the narcs so quickly flip from one to the other, completely inconsistently. One moment they are so sorry for what they’ve done and can’t live without us, the next we are terrible people and we are responsible for their cheating.

      While pick-me dancing, I showed a lot of different emotions, but they were real, and consistent. I spoke of my anger, but didn’t rage. I tried to show my ex the value of our life together and how I valued him, but didn’t sparkle charm at him. I showed my upset and sorrow, but wasn’t all focused on myself, as he was, in his self-pity. And underneath my emotions were real attachment and caring. His behaviour consistently showed he felt neither.

      • I agree with both of these post regarding rage, charm, and self pity tactics in my pick-me dance. How is that possible?

    • I agree with you ihsanm – I think a Chump’s behaviour would also reflect the three channels. The pick me dance would have been infused with charm, perhaps a little pity thrown in on behalf of ourselves and our children (who are genuinely suffering), and rage when it doesn’t work out in our favour. I know that my behaviour over the last number of years has probably encompassed the three channels. Wouldn’t a transition from “pick me” to “meh” look the similar to the three channels? Or at least have some elements to it? I totally understand that Cheaters and Cheaters, and Chumps are Chumps, but from the outside, the behaviours and emotions might not look all that different. I was certainly not on my best behaviour when I discovered the extent of the infidelity, but certainly was charming when I wanted my children to be raised in an intact family. As I’ve been told by a therapist, we can’t change someone’s behaviour, but we can influence it. So where do we draw the line on who has the mastery of the mindfuck?

      • There is a difference between responding to a bad situation, and being the cause of that situation. Also, cheaters are manipulating for their own gain. Chumps are not.

  • My ex is mostly set on the rage channel, but it’s a subtle, sadistic rage. Typical example:

    On what would have been our 26th anniversary last year, I got a text from him saying he had “thought about me a bunch of times” that day, and that he was so glad I was finally with a “stable man” and he hoped that I was truly happy. I thought it was weird, because he had never contacted me on any of the previous anniversaries since divorce, but I ignored it. A week later, I got another text from him saying that he needed to go to the post office, and it happened to be right next to a restaurant the two of us used to love, so he was eating lunch there and it was “a major flashback.” I thought this was weird as well, and knew he had to be up to something. These texts were way out of the ordinary, he hadn’t contacted me in many months and never anything like that.

    Well, a week after THAT, there was a knock on my door, and it was the sheriff’s department serving me with papers that ex was taking me to court to have alimony ended. And suddenly, the whole thing was clear to me.

    He had been fucking with me. I looked at the dates on the paperwork, and could see that on our anniversary, when he “thought about me a bunch of times,” he was filling out the paperwork, writing lies and crazy talk, pouring the self-pity out to the judge like you would not believe.

    Then, when he “needed a post office” that just happened to be next to a restaurant we loved, that’s when he mailed the paperwork to the courthouse.

    He sent those nice, almost loving texts to soften me up, to make me feel warm and nostalgic about him, to bring up good, loving feelings. And inside, he was laughing his head off, because he knew that I’d be thinking about him all fondly, when BAM! a knock on the door and papers served by the sheriff. He set me up so it would hurt worse.

    He’s pulled several similar stunts over the past few years, but I was still astonished at the mind fuckery, the manipulation, the hatred and the sheer, cunning evil. Needless to say, he’s blocked on my phone now.

      • Mine would do.this. get me comfortable then drop a bomb. Classic have sex then get up and tell me by the way he has found an apartment to rent. And no we had not discussed this. I calm response to him was okay. Another one was doing shit and asking if I wanted to talk. Like he was to be the source of my damnation and salvation in one. Sick fuck.

    • My XH did the exact same thing – during the divorce process he would actually give me gifts and then a few days later I would get some ridiculous letter from his lawyer demanding this or that. It got so obvious that I actually started to become fearful as the larger the gift, the bigger the behind the back stab that was coming in a few days. Once he gave me a mini ipad and my friends were on stand by!!

    • Sounds like my ex. I had to call him a few weeks ago regarding a check he sent me, and he acted like we were best pals. It had been the first time in more than a year that we’d spoken, and I’m still reeling from it today. I never should have made that call. Later that day, he saw my car sitting in the bank parking lot and he rolled up right next to me on the passenger side, rolled down his window, gave me the “hey, how’s it going; haven’t seen you in ages” speech and acted like he never stuck that knife in me in the courtroom. They are masters at the game.

      • So after reading all of these scenarios, I am thinking that I may not really be out of the woods yet. Post divorce hoovering drama is my only concern. Ex and stepson are finally moving out this week…I scoured around and found a lovely fully furnished house for them to rent that is walking distance to their business across the river…they love it and can now launch themselves into the wild single living that they crave…a 63yr old man and his 24yr old son together playing out in the bush. Hopefully, all I will ever hear are crickets. I collected moving boxes (happily) and I am storing all of their belongings that they cannot take with them over into one of their friends garage OFF of my property…and changing my locks, and phone numbers. That way, if they suddenly “need” or “forgot” something, they won’t have an excuse to come to my house to get it. Am I missing anything else?

    • GIO, I’m so glad you’ve blocked your crazy ass ex from your phone! I hope you never hear from him again, and I hope he loses at trying to change your alimony.

  • I filed BEFORE Mr. Hyde found out I learned he was cheating. I did not want to listen to or be tempted to believe his lies. He’s a trial lawyer and convincing liar. He is also retaliatory and a bully in and out of the court room….When I filed, he first invited me to go to our Arizona home together for 3 months (he had always said he couldn’t be there more than 7-10 days a month because he had to be in the office in Iowa). When he realized I was serious, he got a lawyer and the emotional and financial battering began. It was 2 years of hell and I am worse off financially but MUCH better off physically, emotionally, spiritually and….sexually! He is still his sick cheating self – he even cheated on his girlfriend (it news to me – learned in his deposition- that he HAD one) and me with Hookers. Sicko.

  • Here’s the thing. I need help. I feel sorry for him. Never a drinker as far as I know, but four (FOUR!) stints in alcohol rehab since he took up with schmoopie and kept leaving me and then coming home. He says he can’t be alone but he left me alone. I am worried because I feel sorry for him. He is so pathetic. He has been sending our son sad and pathetic texts. My son was almost relieved to find out he was in alcohol rehab because he thought he had a brain tumor. Why would you want us to feel sorry for you instead of proving you can do better? I try to show my son I am strong and self sufficient. He wants us to pity him. What he doesn’t understand it that he actually broke my heart. I spent years worrying about him, loving him, caught up in his drama and dysfunction. I now understand that no marriage is better than a terrible marriage. But I feel sorry for him and I am afraid I will try to rescue him again. Please talk me out of it. Now, ironically, I am afraid shmoopie will drop him and he will be alone. He is very self destructive. And very toxic to me and my son. I am just starting out on my own. Financially independent for the first time in 35 years. Living a life alone when I didn’t expect it. But no one is criticizing me or lying to me or hurting me. I can’t be dragged back into this.

    • You have already done the hard work of moving on and becoming financially independent–stay mighty and keep trusting that he sucks. He really, truly does, to leave you after all those years and then to try to slink back hoping you’ll take pity on him. It IS pathetic, and he completely brought it upon himself. It’s no longer your job to rescue him–please remember that!

  • Oh man, this is so spot-on and one of the very first lessons every new chump should learn. Understanding the three channels was one of my first “aha” moments here as I pieced it all together and realized I could pretty much predict what STBX would do next based on the channel he happened to be on that day.

    He recently discovered that I’ve been digging through old financial accounts (via an alert I thought I had disabled). Cue rage. Silent, seething, rage during pick up and drop off. Ineffectual attempts to peel out of my driveway, which ended not with a bang but a whimper. I’m sure he planned to go home and practice how to peel out of a driveway properly so he could make a big bad scary noise that would let me and my neighbors know that this time, he’s really, really angry at me.

    Instead, the channel flipped to charm. Texts telling me that he’s in the neighborhood, do I want him to stop by and make sure my furnace is working properly? Am I ready for the snowstorm? If not he’s at Costco and can pick up some supplies for me. Oh, and lookie here, he found something in the attic I might want, he would be happy to drop it off.

    Yes, I would most definitely just love to accept faux acts of kindness from a man who is currently trying to fuck me over in our divorce! I’ll take another shit sandwich, please . . . NOT.

    Next will be self-pity. I already know the schtick–why are you insisting on paying these lawyers all this money when you know that if we could just sit down together, we could work out the settlement ourselves. We’re not bad people, you and I, and all of of the negativity of a litigated divorce is only hurting, me, er, us in the end.

    Wait, what? You’re letting your attorney continue to handle it? Don’t you see how this is tearing me, I mean us, up inside? It’s not like you to be like this . . . oh, so THIS is how you’re going to be? FLIP! We now resume our regularly scheduled programming on the Rage Channel.

      • So true . . . it’s almost funny how predictable it’s become. Except what’s not funny about it is that, even being able to predict it doesn’t mean we can change it, or anything else they might say or do. Another reason why NC is so important. I just observe from the sidelines, watching while he flips through the channels.

    • Are we married to the same person? My STBXH is trying to convince me to drop my attorney because the process will be so “painful” for “us” and we can “come to an agreement ourselves.” Nah, bro. You owe me child support. A lot of it.

  • “I thought we could remain friends but apparently you don’t trust me,” said my EX. No, I don’t trust you! You idiot, you had an affair that you deny and you’re shacking up with her. Self-pity is his main mode of communication with his adult kids. One has already cut him off and the other is ready to.

    • If during the course of a marriage both parties can admit there are problems, try to work on them and it still doesn’t work out. Agree to divorce I’m sure it’s possible to remain friendly but only if both parties gave it their best effort and tried to save the marriage. However if one party refuses to talk, refuses to open up, refuses to put in their best effort and doesn’t do a damn thing whilst the other spouse is trying and trying to no avail and the one who’s not trying just buries his head in the sand, lies, betrays and leaves for greener pastures why should the injured spouse put in an effort and try to remain friends when the cheating spouse put absolutely no effort into saving the marriage and just, crushed, killed destroyed the relationship. Fuuuuuccccckkkkk him! He put not one effort into trying to fix our marriage or fix or change himself, I will put not one effort into remaining or becoming his friend. Screw him, his whore and everyone who thinks like they do. His whore thinks his marriage breaking up is harlarious. May a safe from on high fall on her whore head. When he does it to her who will be laughing then. He’s cheated on her their entire affair. Fuckers!

      • You are so right Kar Marie. A quote springs to mind and it goes like this: “Yeah! Sure! You just shat all over me and my entire life, so of course we should stay friends.” Said No One Ever!

        • Well said. These fuckers just don’t get it. Unless it affects them directly then it’s wrong. They all need serious mental health counseling.

    • “Self-pity is his main mode of communication with his adult kids.” True with the almost adult kids, too. The thing I abhorred the most during the divorce was the confusion my ex was constantly instilling in our kids. I was doing everything possible to keep the kids out of the middle and he was doing everything he could to get them to side with him…. Now that our kids are young adults, they are starting to really get a clear picture of their father and understand how he manipulates others.

      • I did the same trying to keep the adult kids out of the middle but when he tried several times to get the girl on his side against me she exploded on him and let him have it with both barrels! I love her so and she has her father’s number doesn’t care unless it benefits him! The boys keep their distance.

  • To avoid all three channels, I went along with the “sure we’ll always be friends” routine until I moved out. He was still calling me multiple times a week to help him with different things even after we’d went to court and made the divorce official.

    At one point I was even feeding his dogs while he went to class. That got old in a hurry so i emailed our mediator and asked him if anything could be changed in the settlement just because the ex got angry. He told me that barring fraud from either one of us the divorce settlement was officially binding since the judge signed off on it.

    I cut the ex off that day; wouldn’t take his phone calls, the request for dinner out to celebrate our defunct anniversary was turned down and I stopped going to his house to feed the dogs.

    Text rage began, followed by a wish for me to have a “great birthday??!!” This of course was preceded by a couple of pocket dials and a mistaken face time call from his ipad??? Then I learned the fine art of blocking on an iPhone. The only venue he can reach me is by email and since he hates to email I never hear from him.

    Almost two years of full on no contact and life just keeps getting better. My advice is turn off as many of those channels as you possibly can and they will no longer have any power at all! Once you extricate yourself from the disordered and you look from the outside-you realize just how fucked up it all was.

  • Thank you, Cheatzrssuck. I am COUNTING on this.

    Right now it sucks, sucks, sucks. Waiting around for STBX to “decide” what he wants to “give me” in our settlement. Waiting around for him to deign to respond to the court. Waiting around one more minute with this whorish predator.

    (Ha! We’re in a community property state, asshole. And you’re not “giving me” anything. I earned way more than my state entitles me to. But I’ll take half or even a little less to be FINISHED with you forever

    • LOL Roaring. I heard that too. “I’m ‘giving’ you half my pension, 401K, house, what more do you want?” Simple. I want half of MY truck you drive, half of our boat, motorcycle, tractor, sports car you just bought, personal property…..And half of that Roth you cashed in.

  • Sorry that I posted the same thing twice. Brain fart. I lost in the divorce- I spent thousands of dollars paying his bills even though he was continuing to insist that he was still financially supporting me (huh?) But I took good advice from my lawyer- just get done with him. And that’s what I did. I am done. i got the house, my 401k and 100% of the debt. He says he is now homeless (when he is not with schmoopie). So, whose choice was that?

    • I saw the “handwriting on the wall” after the first year of our ten year marriage (Porn, flirting, lying, gambling, excessive drinking/spending, pot smoking daily ect). (Keep in mind we are in our 60’s). I had paid off $100K of HIS credit card debt when we first married 10 years ago, because I hate debt especially at our ages…we should have been saving for retirement at this point…I wanted a “fresh start” in the marriage. His dysfunctions began to show in earnest after that. He then ran up $270K more credit card debt within 2 years (crappy business/spending practices because he lives for the “moment”).

      I hatched a plan because I had no job or money left, and still had a son to support being in High School at the time…I filed Chapter 13 Bankruptcy and he HAD to go along with it or he would “inherit” all that debt alone. This destroyed all of our credit and closed off all borrowing for the future…which was wonderful. Then after the Bankruptcy was paid/discharged, I opened up my own business. He, being thrilled regarding how well it produced, agreed to start saving cash together to buy our house. He had been hiding assets all along that he would have to eventually expose and cash out to pay for “his half” of the house investment. Now everything was out in the open. Three years later, we paid cash for a house.

      When he started his EA just over a year ago (and I caught him), I let him know that I would “think” about “things” for a year and let him know what I would decide to do after that time. I was also waiting for the magical Social Security “ten year marriage” benefits. The suspense worked its magic. Two weeks before the year was coming to an end, he said that HE wanted a divorce…beating me to the punch to make himself look good to outsiders. The entire time, I was sweet, loving and a model wife (as usual…a chump). But I was also getting my ducks in a row in stealth the whole time…I have always known what needed to be done. I never had to make the decision to “pull the plug”…he did that for us.

      So there was no channel surfing needed. He made the decision that I would have made anyway…no need for charm, rage, or pity.

  • My Xh had the remote in his hand and flipped between those three channels like a maniac.

    Some examples from him.

    Charm…”I never meant to hurt you, but…”, “I know that one day we can be friends”, “Let’s get together soon and talk about what will happen next”.

    The charm was turned up full strength when he mistakenly thought that we would pull some divorce papers off the internet and happily sign off without ever consulting a lawyer.

    Rage…”I can’t believe that you served divorce papers on me!” and “How dare you file a protective order on me!”

    Rage was turned up full strength when I filed divorce papers. Although he wanted the divorce, he couldn’t stand the fact that I filed first especially since the finances were frozen and he couldn’t spend more money on the ho-worker.

    Self-pity…”We don’t have to tell the kids why we are getting divorced” and “I know your parents will hate me, but I’m really not a bad person.”,

    The self-pity was full strength the entire time. No one ever experienced the pain he did when he had to tell his wife that he was fucking the ho-worker. No one would ever understand the depth of his love for the ho-worker. No one would ever understand how hard it was to pack up his shit and leave “his” home. No one would ever understand HIM!!

    After I got all I could out of the divorce, going NO CONTACT is the best thing since sliced bread. I don’t have to hear his shit and the path to MEH is much straighter. I know I am not there yet, but I can at least see it on the horizon!!

  • CN, I need some help. My case seems to be totally different from what I’m reading here, and I’m sure a lot of you will say I should be thankful; maybe that’s true, but right now I’m baffled. She’s the one that’s NC, she just has no interest in speaking to me. I’m the one going through the channels, although I’m light on the charm and heavy on the rage. Although I don’t show her, I do feel a lot of self pity, and I want to text her “Why did you do this to me?”. We were married for 21 years, two kids, and this summer she started contact with her college boyfriend who had just divorced. In October she flew to visit him for a weekend, telling me it was a beach weekend with the girls. D-day was Oct. 25, when I checked her phone and found all the texts. Since then it’s been all downhill, just an inexorable march to loneliness and a broken family. She moved out 2 weeks ago (I insisted, she thought she would stay until April!), and I’m freaking out. I’m just so mad and hurt, and she’s out on her own.

    • Sorry, I went through the mindfuck over two years. Let her go she’s just not worth it. If she can walk away that easy just like mine did with no remorse cut your losses and run. Better to be by yourself and with an unremorseful cheater. 30 years for me. Heartbreaking but better to just let her go and become indifferent.

    • Hang in there oaktree! You deserve better than what she has given you. You deserve happiness, reciprocity and respect in your relationship / marriage. She is doing you a favor, it’s just hard for you to see or realize it right now…with distance and time you will KNOW it.

      Hugs to you oaktree!

    • Oaktree–her NC is making you feel helpless, because (at least at first) it can be therapeutic to rage against our aggressors. That is very painful. You also want answers that make sense, and have not yet accepted that there aren’t any (for what it’s worth, most of us have come around to realizing there are no logical answers for the havoc these cheaters have wreaked on their spouses & families, only to temporarily fall off the NC wagon in hopes we’ll get a reasonable response. Ain’t gonna happen–in part because there are no reasonable explanations. Cheaters have tremendously impaired cost-benefit analyzers and lack empathy.)

      If you want comfort or answers, come here (and post in the Private: General forums for more personalized help).

      • Tempest; “Cheater have tremendously Impaired cost/benefit analyzers and lack empathy”.
        That is it in a nutshell!

    • Me too Oaktree. I’m just chiming in here to say that you’re not the only one this has happened to. My cheating ex-husband dropped me like a burning coal and never got in touch again. We did have to have contact re the divorce etc but all of that was initiated and driven by me. He basically spent his time out partying with the OW and his friends. All his family dropped me and all our mutual friends. I was 5 weeks after a diagnosis of aggressive cancer and in the middle of chemotherapy at D day and had to pull my way through over a year of awful hospital treatment with only my elderly mother for support. She should never have had to go through it either. This all happened in 2013. Since then I have found a new life and new friends and I’m really nearly at meh now. I never ever believed the pain of what my ex did to me would end. I actually prayed repeatedly at that time that the cancer would kill me because I could not bear the pain of his betrayal. I loved him and trusted him so much. However now my only regret is that I ever met him. I no longer even care if he is happy with the OW or anything. My life is filled with other things – not perfect but so much better. I’m glad I’m still alive and I’ve learned to dance, quite literally. I’m sure that wonderful things will happen to you in the future and I guarantee (cast iron!) that the pain you are enduring now will not last forever.

    • Oaktree, I caught my ex living a double life after 25 years of marriage. When I did, he left and immediately planned to marry one of his AP’s and barely spoke to me. They cannot stand your rage and disgust. I found if I pretended to be kind and still warm towards him he would respond a bit but I only used that to get a quick divorce. We never ever heard from him post divorce except for necessary financials by cold business like emails. Even our children have been discarded. It’s mind boggling but you will get through it. I am now remarried to a much better person. I know how hard it is but the one thing I wish is that I had not repeatedly lost my shit with that freak. What would hurt more if you were the abandoning cheater- if your ex was hysterical and freaking out, or if your ex was calm and pretty much just moved on? Forgive yourself for losing it, you’re human. But learn that it won’t get you anywhere. Try to work towards no contact, even if you have to fake Meh for now. (((Big hugs)))

  • Oh, I should add that although I went two full weeks without sending her any angry texts, I fell off the wagon yesterday. I called her “cheater mom orgasmatron” (as well as a fucking whore). I know it’s not healthy, but sometimes I can’t help myself.

    • I’ve called asswipe every name in the book. Doesn’t phase them. They don’t care! They don’t care who they hurt friends, kids, family or spouse. I was with mine thirty years and he was more concerned he hurt his whore than me. I told my kids the truth no white washing they are grown ups and to have whatever relationship they could get with them and he tried to brain wash them to his side. They won’t they have his number. Take care of yourself and your kids.

  • Kar marie, Jeep, and Tempest, thanks for your responses. You won’t believe what I just found in the last 20 minutes: that her Schmoopie has moved from Florida to a town within a couple hours, and will soon move even closer. I could kill someone. I know you’re right that I’m better off without her, but right now I’m wiped right the fuck out. So how do I post in the forums, anyway?

    • More than likely oaktree, regardless of the distance between them, once it is a non-issue, the heady exhilaration of their ‘true love’ will become a yoke they will toss off and run from…trust that. Life is hard most days and always involves mundane responsibilities that quickly puts out the fantasy flames of cheater ‘love’…I’m sure others here will attest to this. satan’s ow dropped him like a hot potato once I filed for divorce…once it got really real between them their fantasy died an ugly death.

      …when that happens, oaktree, and it will I promise you, you need to keep your doors locked and your communication NC to protect yourself. She will try to come home…probably for years to come. Don’t let that happen as you will leave yourself open to more of the same from her. She will never change, not for you or any other man she engages with, EVER. She is a monster and always will be. Don’t let her have the rest of your life.

      …you can log onto the forums by signing on to them…if your log on is not messed up like mine apparently is…I can’t log on. Look for ‘Log on to Forums’ at the top of this page. Good luck with it…I can’t seem to do it… Help Tempest!!!! 😀

      • OakTree–you’ll have to set up an account with your email to log into the forums; a password will come by email (and then have your computer save the password so that you can automatically log in each time). The Private:General forum will probably get you the most advice.

        Jeep–hit LogIn and enter your name, but hit the “Forgot Password” link below the login info to reset your password (then save it to your computer so you don’t need to memorize it).

      • “when that happens, oaktree, and it will I promise you,” thanks so much for this, Jeep. It feels like my world is slipping away from underneath me right now. Mutual friends that have talked to her aren’t returning phone calls, etc. Small town. This sucks.

        • My heart and soul go out to you oaktree…I’ve been where you are and know you can’t internalize this right now but…truly…you need to find something to occupy your rapidly processing mind…circular thinking is disabling and can harm your physical body…and, if you are also experiencing the other limiting circumstances I did…no one is there anymore to hold your hand or listen to you while you try to ‘talk it out’ and rationalize what cannot and never will be rationalized…isolation right now, when, what you need more than anything is human compassion and understanding is probably non existent…I experienced that too – family and friends just couldn’t take anymore of my ‘trying to save my sanity’ behaviors – they labeled me ‘toxic’ and ‘self destructive’…while I was neither of those, rather just trying to rationalize ‘WTF!’ …lol…yeah…lucky them didn’t GET IT…cause, lucky them, NEVER HAD THE EXPERIENCE I had just been dealt…so…how could I expect them to GET IT and just hang in there for me! I get that now…but…then…it just created more hurt for me and made me believe satan (my abusive, entire marriage cheater) was right about me! Don’t give in to that thinking! It is not true!!!!

          You deserve a life partner that takes her vows SERIOUSLY…you deserve RESPECT in your relationship…you deserve THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE IF YOU WANT AN OPEN MARRIAGE…you deserve HONESTY…you deserve to have an intact soul…you deserve to know that you are not the only one in the marriage…your partner has your back like you have hers…you have not ever had that with this woman you are married to…you can leave with your self respect intact and know that life will give you better…if you just step outside and breathe…and believe. in. yourself. You are in fact AWESOME. And LOVED beyond measure…just cause you deserve it!

          …I know you can’t concentrate on what you love to do right now…I know I couldn’t…but…if you can, please, just indulge this vision for a minute…go somewhere quiet to do it…and breathe…just breathe… 🙂 …feel it? There you are! I hope you are near a window where you can see this awesome sky…keep breathing…feel it? …you are never alone…none of us are…ever…and love is everywhere… 🙂 …keep breathing…just breathe…and gather yourself around you…feel the love…its just pouring out from all of us here and everywhere around you…you are loved and you deserve better than what you are experiencing right now. Just concentrate on breathing and your breath and your life force and the love we are all sending you…

          🙂 …we deserve better than the spouses we once chose…trust that…leave her, as I have him, to their own paths…don’t look back anymore…just breathe and look forward into that sunshine on the horizon over there 🙂

          We are here for you 🙂 All of us! WE GOT YOUR BACK!

            • 😀 Thank you oaktree!!! You do too!

              Don’t let your soon to be x monster get the best of you!!!!! Save it for yourself and your soon to be awesome life without the misery of her!!!!!

              ROCK ON OAKTREE!!!

        • Oaktree–the collateral damage from the betrayal can hurt almost as most. I’m afraid we all lost friends who wanted to play Switzerland, or went to the dark side with our spouses. Rally all the support that you can, TELL people what happened so they are inoculated against your cheater’s stories. And I assure you, you will find support in unusual places if you look; sometimes supporters are hidden until you seek them out. We all get it here, too, and this site will be your sanctuary.

          • Thanks Tempest! I’m beginning to understand what you say about support – and I know I can find it here, thanks to people like you. A thousand thanks!

        • Oaktree this happened to me too. Only mine never copped to another person just left me because I was so horrible and said that I had betrayed him. I was devastated. Only I didn’t cuss him out. I did the most painful pathetic pick me dance you have ever seen. Which I could only do through texting. He wouldn’t let me know where he was. Let me tell you it does get better. For real. Hang in there. The horrible pain at the beginning gets better. So sorry you are going through this. Just know you will be ok and do what you need to do.

          • I so appreciate hearing from you! Trying to move forward – thanks for your comments, they mean a lot.

      • “Fantasy flames of cheater love.” Lol. Oh my goodness. Too funny. I’m waiting for the mundane reality to hit my 48 yo cheater and his 28 yo co’worker. It’s only been months. The rush of sneaking around will probably die off soon. Now that they live together she can have his dentures, smelly socks and shoes everywhere, stinky blown out toilet every morning, cigarette butts and smelly breath, need for Tums every day, attacks of heartburn in the night that cause vomiting, the use of the F word every other word, his complaints about everyone at work and friends and family who are so ignorant and beneath him……. ugh. She can have him. My house is nice and peaceful now. Ah yes, the fantasy flames of cheater love. Priceless!!!

  • I got the stall and sabotage from Mr. Cheaterpants when I was trying to settle the property. Here is an email to my attorney that I found and it seriously made me laugh out loud. These disordered freaks can make you crazy with their silly mind fuck games. (I changed the names for obvious reasons)

    Hi Attorney Person,

    Thanks for the update. Hmmm…..Mr CheaterPants is too busy?? He doesn’t have a job so what could possibly keep him that busy? Let me help. I’m not fluid in FuckTARD speak but here is my best guess, “… he will be “tied up” for most of the day today”, translates to one of the following:

    1. He has a S&M hookup he found thru Craigslist or Ashley Madison.
    2. He doesn’t know how to untie knots. Knots can be complicated and confusing. Yes, he really is that dumb.
    3. He doesn’t have the funds.
    4. He is enjoying the Jerking Me Around Dance. The sadistic POS (not an acronym for Point of Sale 😀 ) enjoys frustrating people.

    Sorry, if I sound upset. I am. I have been trying to resolve this property for months and Mr. CheaterPants has sabotaged and stalled these efforts every step of the way. It’s all smoking mirrors on his part. I offered to buy him out and just walk away for $$$$ in December and he thought that was a low ball offer. He needed more time to mull it over, which means he will stall this process out for as long as he can. That is why I involved your firm. I do not want to have any contact with him. Not only is he a horrible person he “ain’t that bright”. Thus the name FuckTARD!

    Keep me posted.


  • The thing about the mindfuck is once your head is full of those thought bending little swimmers its next to impossible to get them out. The Chump Intervention Team needs a Mind Fuck Enema Kit. A giant high colonic brain unwashing so to speak. Begin the cleansing.

    • TheClip, I felt like this too, for a long time. But time and NC really do work to get the mindfuck residuals and replays out of our brains, thank heavens! That and surrounding ourselves with genuine, caring people, so we re-train to think, feel and react in healthier ways.

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