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Dear Chump Lady, Anyone else experience Switzerland friends?

badfriendDear Chump Lady and Chump Nation,

First of all let me thank you and Chump Nation for guiding me through the turmoil of my wife’s infidelity. I stupidly pursued the pick me dance which damn near killed me. I now only seek forgiveness from myself for my 4 month dance. However, my question to CN is this — has anyone else been sideswiped by so called friends who seem to abandon the betrayed and carry on with the cheater as though nothing has happened?

Since my split, a couple who we are both friendly with have completely abandoned me. My STBXW is always around there, but they have not invited me in over a year. In addition, the woman was cheated on by her husband a couple of years ago. Therefore I thought at least she would be sympathetic to my plight. Instead she now completely ignores me. My question is — has anybody else on CN encountered this or is it just me? I could do with some help and advice at the moment.


Dear Britchump,

I’m sure you’ll get a giant show of hands on the Switzerland friend question. Anyone out there treat you like you’re a contagion after chumpdom and divorce? Oh sure. And you know what? It’s a gift. Just like losing a cheater is a gift. If someone sees you go through the most painful, wrenching experience of your life and feigns “neutrality” about it? You don’t share the same values. This person isn’t your friend. Demote or cull your social register accordingly.

As for your particular situation, I’m not surprised those people want nothing to do with you. He’s a cheater and she’s reconciling with him. Your choice to divorce is probably very threatening to both of them. It scares the cheater because you represent sedition — you aren’t pick-me dancing. You’ve fomented revolution and left. You’ve ceased kibble production. Your dangerous ideas might rub off on his chump. We can’t have that! Failing book burning and censorship, snubbing you will have to suffice.

The reconciling wife probably wants nothing to do with you, because you’re threatening to her as well. If there is a narrative that You Drove Your Wife to Cheat on You by your inadequacies, and then you were a terrible hard ass who Couldn’t Forgive, and who failed to win the pick me dance? She can compare herself favorably against you and feel “safe.”

Oh, Britchump didn’t improve himself. Britchump was bitter and unforgiving. Britchump couldn’t get past it! But NOT ME! I’m SAFE! I’m going to WIN this! Britchump did not follow the Save Your Marriage recipe perfectly and that is why he failed. 

Your example calls into question her own choices. Now, we could argue, if either of these people were truly secure in their choices to reconcile, they could maintain their friendship. Or at least do a better job at “neutrality.” But my guess is they aren’t as secure as they want everyone to believe. Your ex is more easily snowed.

Finally, Britchump — divorce means losing family and friends. It’s just one of the sucky things about it all. It could simply be that they like your ex-wife better than they like you. So again, ask yourself — if they like the cheater better than they like you — what’s that say about their character? Are these people good enough to be YOUR friend? Going through divorce does highlight, often in stark relief, who’s got your back and who is a waste of space.

Not every relationship is worth saving. In marriage or in friendship. I’m sorry these people weren’t worthy of you — now go invest in some people who are. ((Hugs))

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • So picture this…. I am sitting across my ASSHATS attorney because he deposed me… ME! I guess it was tit for tat and he had to show me. Anyway the attorney pushes an email across the table and asks me if I recognize it. IT WAS AN EMAIL FROM ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS!!!! She chose to turn over an a email to my ex during one of my I am not so proud of moments where I am ranting against the affair partner to be used against me! This… a woman who I was her bridesmaid, we travelled together had dinners together and drum roll….. is a psychiatrist (are they all fucked up?). So yeah not only the Switzerland friends (its been crickets in many cases since the divorce) but they even go as far as to turn against you. This has been hard to deal with. But as CL says it is doing me a favor. another shit sandwich. In time the pain goes away.

    Side note… my so called friend has a crappy marriage so jokes on her.

    You will get over it. Its another one of those…. wow there are people in the world who don’t have the same values as me moments. So disappointing but you know what??? I gots me some new friends and its been great! These are people that get it. So forge ahead…..

    • That is COLD.

      She really turned it over? He didn’t hack it or something? Just wow. The stories on this blog never cease to amaze me.

    • Wow. You have all my sympathy. What an absolute asshole your so-called friend is (hope that’s a former friend, btw). I lost a few friends who ‘couldn’t handle’ me being so upset and, in their opinion, for too long, but damn, it was a matter of either shutting them out or having it out. Again, my sympathy. Never speak to that heartless bitch again.

    • Hey chumplisa — I kind of don’t get it: how could a private email to your friend where you’re complaining about your husband’s affair partner be used against you? What is the expectation? That you’ll be calm about it? That you won’t talk to your friends? Is it wrong to privately say bad things about her? Sick!! — If anyone thinks the affair partner has rights that force you to be silent.

    • This is the poster for: “With friends like that, you don’t need enemies”. WTF.

    • Oh,Chumplisa, that is truly awful. However, I don’t see how it can be used against you since it was a private email and it is to be expected that you will be angry and upset. Is your sense that X’s lawyer is going to try to use it against you?

      I hope you icily told that friend what her friendship was worth.

      • Fuck these affair partners. Nasty whores. Your so called ex friend was a class A bitch, Chump Lisa. I wouldn’t bother telling her what was wrong. I would just never speak to her ass again. That is just incredible. Seriously incredible.

        • Exactly. She is no friend. Why would she do that? Is she jealous of you?Who knows what else she has done behi d your back? What a back stabber…you pour your heart out to your friend…and she turns it over to the enemy camp! I would cut her off immediately, block her number.

          • WOW, your own best friend!! If she’s capable of giving that email, she probably had sex with your husband too.

    • My sister in law, who had already been through three divorces, wanted to remain my buddy on Facebook. I was okay with it because I thought we were close. Turns out sludge is thicker than water, because she sent a post of mine (a picture of a Mass bulletin on my kitchen table with the caption, “This is what hypocrisy looks like.”) to my X, who tried to use it when he deposed me.

      I unfriended her, and have never heard from her again. Bye, Felicia!

      • Chutes, I still was “friends” with the ex MIL when I posted a picture of a before and after of my kitchen. I bought my own house, my attorney backed my right to do so, right smack in the middle of the divorce (4 months after d-day, go me!) and was proud of the updates. Sure as shit, his attorney sends my attorney correspondence that I am spending marital assets on new appliances and updates to my new house. The only way that he could have found out was through her reporting back to him on what I was doing. Nothing came of it in court since it was nonsense.

        I am truly so happy to have the ex-laws and ex-sister in law out of my life. Going no contact with them has been amazing. His parents are super active in church, his father is even a deacon, and instead of upholding the Catholic family values, they have decided that it’s better to just claim the “forgive everyone for their mistakes” garbage. That’s fine, but facts don’t change. Their son still fucked someone else while he was married. No matter how they spin it, their son IS an adulterer

    • Oh the irony of it all – that a licensed clinical professional who should be an expert in confidentiality and moral distress has the poorest judgment of all. How terribly sad for you chumplisa. I’m sorry that happened to you.

    • Excellent CL and as always well said and true! I was a good daughter-in-law, had in-laws over for holidays and events, involved them as much as I could with their grandkids, etc. When I told them about ex’s affair, oddly the first thing out of MIL’s mouth was “how did you find out?” Since then, they have not said one word to me. 25 years in that family and Not a word about what ex did. My best friend recently ran into them in the grocery store and boldly (because that’s how she is) said, “So, how’s K’s new girlfriend?” They replied, “Well, she’s really skinny.” So, this gives a picture of what I was dealing with anyway. I focused on them with anger for a long time and still even re-visiting the topic is a small trigger but honestly these are not people I ever admired and in fact, they were truly horrible in many ways, e.g., mean spirited, distant, cold, withdrawn. So why am I even surprised? The point is: I don’t want them in my life anyway so good riddance. I don’t miss those awkward dinners, those stiff gatherings. Now I focus on people of meaning in my life.

      Also, as an aside CN, I’ve been a bit out of the loop lately and battling ex on divorce modification, child support, and tax deductions (something I should have done at divorce time but ran from my abusing narcissist sacrificing a lot). We left mediation with a signed agreement 3 months ago which he has systematically changed drastically reducing all amounts he agreed to pay, reducing child support, taking tax deductions. It has been disappointing and eye-opening, very healing to move on, but rough now financially as all of his fighting was just increasing my legal fees (fees I paid with a small pittance from my dad’s death inheritance). Anyway, I am doing well, just getting through it.

      • Geez, how can he do that unilaterally? But glad to hear you are healing and being Mighty!

      • WOW, Chump B — were you married to my X too?! You described my situation perfectly. After 30 years with that man and enduring all those awkward visits from “Mother & Father”, I always felt like I was the cook, the maid, and the go-fer. Never felt included in conversations, etc., so my first thought upon divorce was how happy I was to be rid of them in my life. Even my children didn’t enjoy those visits. Amazing how they too raised a narcissist.

        I’m just two months out from the divorce and waiting to see what he’ll do next because I don’t think he has a dime to pay me!

      • Oh yes. The reaction of the mother-in-law. A sore (and still sore) point for me, too. Mine’s first words to me were ‘he’s really upset. Can you feel sorry for him?’

        I still can’t get my head around it and I still think about it.

        • After 32 years and the only DIL for 24 of those she says. “I guess it wasn’t meant to be”. Fuck that!

        • My MIL stated “so wonderful he is a committed family man” despite knowing he was checked out entirely in our family. Then counselled me to get better at taking “the bad with the good”. She then went on to explain how she had done that with his dad and despite her husband having affairs, leaving the family seven times and losing all their money twice they had been “happily married”. I pointed out to her that they had divorced before my husband had finished high school but this did not seem to disrupt her (or my ex husbands) narrative that it was a “happy” family. I guess I’m looking for a different kind of happiness.

      • My in-laws too! I have not heard a peep from them since I threw their cheating abusive son out of the house six months ago. My stbx actually said to me just last week – “my parents want you to know that they hold no ill-will towards you” I was astounded and said – “why would they – I was a faithful and loving wife for 23 year and raised their grandchildren into fine young men” So happy to be out of that tangle of fuckedupness.

        • I got something similar after D-Day from Shitbox: “my parents aren’t about to take sides”.

          Right. And for what reason would they ever be against me?

          My mind still boggles daily with it all. Bloody well bring on meh, is all I can say.

      • Wow, I thought I was the only one that was shucked and tossed not only by my cheating ex- but his father and step-mother… 13 years I was with their son, and the just went BLIP! off my radar!!!

        For about a year pre-him leaving they cut me off pretty much. For Christmas they sent our daughter Frozen=themed bathroom and bedroom decor (REALLY?!?!?! for a 6-year-old?!?!?!?) my then-husband got $500.00 worth of new tires, and I got a $40.00 gift card to Amazon — a week after Christmas no less!!!!….then for my birthday 2015, I got, nothing. A day later they called me to wish me a happy birthday, saying they forgot, WOW. Just wow…

        Come to find out from his EAP/long-distance love a few months later after my birthday that he had been telling them for over a year that we were divorcing…I guess the bathroom/bedroom decor was for his new slut-shack. Apparently, he had been telling them I didn’t want our daughter and that I was giving her up.

        However, despite all that, I wasn’t that upset of their shuckin’ of me because I never liked them — his step-mom is a bitch, and his father is an older narc. than his son and he is a serial cheater also…like father like son.

        Assholes, the lot of them!!!!! Good riddance.

      • As far as Swiss friends go, there haven’t been many at all, just about everyone on the planet is TeamMolly!!! Thank God for that, because with EXH#1, I lost everyone I thought I would have in my corner- they all went to his side and I literally had to start over with no friends or family close by.


      • Exactly ChumpB, similar discard from MIL who was perfectly happy to have girlfriend to Sunday lunch. But as the IC said: ‘save your indignation, it is a complete backwards looking waste of energy. How she supports her son is none of your business. Why go to the source of madness, and expect it not to be mad?’

      • I experienced the same thing with my in-laws of 20 years. It has been devastating. They all let the ex get away with his appealing behavior. Every one of them.

        Then there’s my son. He sees the light and cuts them all off. A hero for his mom, even at the cost of family he should still have. For him, I hurt.

  • Agree completely . Those people are not worth keeping. I feel better without them in my life. I am loved most especially by myself, something I continue to work on so I never allow a psychopath into my life again. The people who are all in as my friends stay in my life, those who aren’t just aren’t important anymore.

    • I agree those friends aren’t worth keeping, but I am finding the forced isolation from old friends very painful.

      Britchump–of 8 couples in my inner circle with X, only 2 have stayed with me + the wife from one couple (her H swung my X’s way because they have been friends for over 30 years). Of those 2 couples, one of the men still sees my X professionally (his wife hates X), and the other couple has come out swinging for me (turned down an invitation from X, which made his narc ass REALLY mad). It is amazing how sentimental I feel about having the support of those 2 couples; it’s as if I was a homeless person and someone just handed me a 10-course meal.

      What I realized is that half the couples who swung with X are cheaters themselves, or the result of cheater unions. The other half are moral cowards (they work with X and just don’t want to make waves or deal with the controversy, even though they are morally on my side). I don’t really want cheaters, cheater apologists, nor moral cowards in my inner circle any more. But it still hurts. Hugs to you.

      • “I don’t really want cheaters, cheater apologists, nor moral cowards in my inner circle any more. But it still hurts.”-this, absolutely this.

        I think the reason that it hurts is you aren’t just learning that your spouse wasn’t who he/she seemed to be, but you are realizing that these people were never truly your friends. I struggled with this A LOT. It wasn’t until I went NC with them too, that I was able to move on and be more comfortable in my life.

      • (Hi, Tempest)

        Britchump, you will see all manner of Switzerland represented here, unfortunately. For me, it was THE HARDEST part about the whole divorce/cheating thing. I could accept that I’d misjudged one person (XH) so incredibly wrongly, but to come to the dawning horror that so many of my “best friends” had no integrity, no courage, … well, what kind of world is THAT to live in, where people can seem so solid then flake so easily?

        It’s been about two years now, and I lost almost everyone. Only two friends who were our mutual friends “chose” me and stood up to him. They may still be friends with him on some level but not with the same amount of respect. Everyone else chose the “easy” path, and some of them said some incredibly hurtful things about me along the way, as well. — I say easy because it’s hard to be judgey in our non-judgey, pursue-your-bliss, noone-is-ever-wrong society. And he’s so HAPPY all the time! He’s SHINY and FUN and having the time of his life with his college coed girlfriend!!

        I, OTOH, am a grounded, genuine person, but I am not shiny. i’m an introvert who likes to sit at home and read, maybe have a nice lunch with a good friend once in a while…. But I don’t want to talk about nothing. I talk about real things. And everyone I lost in the divorce? They were all just as superficial as he is.

        It’s painful on so many levels (so many…), Britchump. But it really is for the best. I miss my in-laws sometimes, wish I knew how my nieces and nephews are doing, but … It’s like an amputation. No sense missing what you can’t have any more.

        Condolences for the loss of your friends.

        • NWBiblio–it also feels like a 10-course meal to have you back commenting!!

          You’re right; it’s tough to realize we not only misjudged our Xs, but also many of our friends & associates. I keep reminding myself that I am now putting my money where my mouth is–I’ve always preferred substance to style, in friendships, in student papers, in film choices, and now I/we have a chance to institute substance across our life. What hurts is that we tried to have a balance before, and thus have to give up things & people toward substance nirvana.

        • NW Biblio! Hey!

          Yeah…In-laws, out-laws. Nearly all my friends. One, who was once herself a chump, stayed my friend. Everyone else vanished on a poof of…something. YOu’d think I was the contagious one.

          Crapweasel’s old friends stayed his friends, despite knowing the score.

          A couple of years down the road, I’m lonely, but I certainly don’t miss having people like that in my life. Far better to have 2 friends and my dog…and a Hulu subscription for late-night binges of Scandinavian Noir.

          I am so sorry for anyone else who has faced this bitter reality of life and a split with a lying cheater/cheating liar. It really hurts.

      • May I borrow your term “moral coward”? I had a slew of them …..but thank heavens they have made like cow shit and hit the ole dusty trail.

    • Very true. Happened to me. The friends shut me out totally because they didn’t want to pick sides. It was easier to stay friends with the material cheater who can offer boat rides and mechanical help. Good riddens better to be alone than with fake anybody!!

  • It was a rude awakening to realize “friends” were never my friends and those that claimed neutrality weren’t neutral, they weren’t my friends. At first in my Chumptom I made excuses for these friends. Being the understanding Chump I was I didn’t want anyone to feel awkward or force anyone to choose between us.
    As time went on it was clear these neutral “friends” had made their choice, it wasn’t me. Their alliance was with the Cheater. After emerging from the fog of betrayal, I now I realize non of these people were good enough to be my friend in the first place. I feel a sense of relief, of course they would choose the Cheater they’re all of the same moral character. They showed me who they were when they could look the other way while my life exploded.
    As Tracy says they were nothing more than a waste of space.

    • I agree and have been there! They are not worth it as they sit in their oh-so-ivory towers.

    • This happened to me with one of my step-kids.

      I helped my ex bring his two children up. The younger girl and I had what I thought was a very meaningful, mother-daughter type relationship.

      Not more than a few weeks into our separation, my ex must have really given her quite a story. She sent back all the gifts still in her possession that my family and I gave her over the years; de-friended me on Facebook, AND blocked me too. In nearly an instant, 20+ years of closeness was wiped away like a swat.

      I know that from her father’s perspective, this is, basically, what I did to him. So, with ALL her Christian posturing over the last several years, I guess she felt it necessary to impose the same “punishment” for divorcing her father.

      At first, the thought pops in of all the years wasted, apparently, on that relationship. But I can’t look at it that way. I made a MAJOR, GOOD difference in her life and she KNOWS it. So I have to leave it at that and not worry about her perceptions or anyone else’s.

      • That is so horrible. We can only hope she has her eyes opened to her father’s true character. Even then, she may be too mortified to apologize to you (if she has any character whatsoever). Wishing you peace!

    • A month before my divorce was finalized (and one month after d-day) one “friend” told me that I “just need to get over it”. Another sent me and the ex a joint e-mail “save the date” for his birthday party. But, he reminded us (me) that we had to be “civil” and “keep the peace” or the invite was invalid. Thanks for putting the responsibility and blame of making everyone feel awkward squarely on me, asshole. Guess who I don’t associate with anymore?

      • My one sister told me that last week (“you need to get over him”. Instant relegation to second circle; I take your calls only if I feel like it now. Same with the few people who told me ” you need to relinquish the anger.” WTF, have you MET me?

        • 😀 Awesome Tempest!

          I have done the same with my family and friends. End.of.story. 😀

    • You are lovely person! Your story is so like mine! You have a great head on your shoulders. I am so sorry you have had had a rotten time! I can relate to you. I also live in the UK and so glad I found Tracy! Head and chin up! you inspire me! Love to you! X

  • Oh yes, I’ve known people who have been friends (possibly fuckbuddies too) with the ex through his first marriage (to me), the second marriage (to OW) and his 3rd marriage (to OWife’s OWife). And they still swallow the narrative that he’s a great guy. *sigh*

  • I believe that I speak in the name of the entire Chump Nation when I say that all of us had our share of Switzerland friends and more. In my case my kids godmother sided with my cheater husband and was his confidante and adviser while playing me by claiming that she was my friend as well. Until one day when she updated me on a Facebook post of my ex and his schmoopie while taking visible pleasure at my pain and disgust. Then I woke up. Now she – she is a lawyer – represents ex in the division of assets hearings. Ha!

    You see she used to be the other woman in her current relationship and she managed to win the pick me dance with her boyfriend (a total asshole by the way). I guess that losers attract losers. Nothing to be sad about really. Grateful is more like it.

    • These stories never cease to amaze me…. the level of disgust people resort to……

  • A hard lesson I finally learned was something Chump Lady frequently says, “you can only control yourself.” You cannot control other people, and I finally understood that some of the Switzerland I was getting from friends was because my cheating Ex was lying not only to me, the Chump, but to everyone who would listen to his “side of the story,” which of course consisted of more lies, about me, about our relationship and about his actions.

    It’s possible that your cheating ex wife had already planted the seeds of some lies about you, then expanded on them in some way after her cheating came to light. Or maybe just lied outright after being exposed.

    • Yup, The Muse, exactly what happened to me. He spent years doing premptive strikes. When I took my kids and left, there were very few people left who were sympathetic to me.

    • Hi Muse…Yes, exactly that. Walks and talks with his friends… turned into him explaining just how much I was a crazy mean bitch. Yeah. (Long before I had a clue there was a problem, d’uh.)

      Crapweasel totally salted the ground, and my friends of many, many years? Bought the narrative. Oh well, hope I never run in to any of them. No time.

      • Namedforvera, you too? I was a crazy mean bitch, too. Now his new girlfriend (not OW, but eye wateringly fast move on) is making the same mistake that I made (trying to MAKE him care/pay attention etc by screaming and getting upset) – well, now, SHE is the unstable one!

        I on the other hand are quite calm, now I am not exposed to his hurtful gas lighting and disregard.

        Women never contact the one before and ask their side of the story! A big mistake, in my view ….

  • The advice is spot on, and in my case there is ANOTHER twist to it. My ECS’s vast social circle, many of whom I became very good friends with…well, it should be pretty obvious that after we separated their loyalties now lie strictly with her.

    I am positive they are not remotely aware of the true story of why the separarion took place. Since Serial Cheaters are such masterful liars and manipulators, I never stood a chance in Hell with anyone who knew the both of us. In fact, I am 100% positive that the entire narrative has been flipped 180 degeees by ECS, to make her look like a saint and a victim. And to make ME look like Satan himself. That I am the disordered one, with untreatable issues, while she was the perfect, loyal wife that had to endure ever so much.

    Now: I could foolishly attempt to put out feelers to those few guys (husbands of her female friends) that I was very friendly with, and with whom I drank beers and exchanged jokes and stories on my sun deck long before the 1st D-Day rolled around.

    But what would be the point?? I am sure ECS “went to work” immediately on twisting all their minds and on pushing her lying narrative onto them. Am I going to waste my energy and nerves on trying to change the minds of those who have been convinced otherwise?? Hell no. It is a losing proposition to push the TRUE narrative onto any of them. They have been brainwashed and lied to.

    The only ones who know rhw true story of her serial cheating are those 3 or 4 close girlfriends who are her ENABLERS and who are narcissistic serial Cheaters themselves.

    As CL so aptly points out in her last sentence, time for us Chumps to invest in some NEW friends. It’s not an overnight project, it takes time and patience. But it will be refreshing to be with people whose minds have not been tainted by our exes’ false, derogatory narratives.

    • “I am positive they are not remotely aware of the true story of why the separation took place.”

      This is a frustration point for me. I believe it is human nature to want one’s true story to be known, especially if someone else is telling a false narrative.

      At the same time, the cheater is my kid’s mom, and trust me, the true story is not flattering for her and definitely makes her out to be the bad one. So, I did choose to remain mostly quiet and not reveal the worst parts of the betrayal to friends in the community. (I did squeal like a bird to my closest friends)

      I look at it as taking the higher road – after all I’ve been through I really don’t care if friends take her side, so be it. I’m too busy re-building my life to be hampered with minor crap like this. But I am lucky too that I still have many supportive friends, and I can make new friends fairly easily.

    • Rings so true. You can bet there was a huge effort to control the message. We know it because that’s also part of the cheater/narcissist character. I must look like the innocent, fun loving, sparkly one. The chump made me do it. And the sad part is that there are many many people who will fall for that. And many many people who will not take a stand against this crappy behaviour. I’ve had a similar experience of having close friendships of 20 years, where the initial reaction was similar to, “tsk tsk, shouldn’t have done that.” Next thing you know, everyone was all smiley faces, pretending nothing happened. Attending a house-warming party cheaterpants threw herself after being shown to the curb. Gag-me moment or what?
      Anyhow, we learn a lot from these experiences, and we learn to discern those who will truly have your back, from those who don’t. Keep the jewels, and let the rest continue on their way.

  • Yes I also thought that – that his ex has probably lied to these so called friends, and they have believed her poison. Knowing now what they are like, it’s very probable the lies started a long time ago, a bit here and a bit there, all to build up a picture of what a great person she is and how she is a ‘victim’. Just consider that!

  • Quote: “If someone sees you go through the most painful, wrenching experience of your life and feigns “neutrality” about it? You don’t share the same values. This person isn’t your friend.”

    Quote: “So again, ask yourself — if they like the cheater better than they like you — what’s that say about their character? Are these people good enough to be YOUR friend?”

    (‘Meh’ begins with a fixed picker.)

    • And I would add the neutrality is a cover for those “friends” quietly believing that you in some way “had it coming.” They are not safe people worth keeping in your life as CL states. It is not wise to keep victim-blamers within your intimate circle, especially when you are that victim. Such is counter-productive to healing and grieving well.

      • “Neutrality”, by persons in your close circle, can be quite damaging during the grieving/process. For your own sanity, fellow chumps: neutrality is *red flag* (in your close circle) when you’ve been chumped.

        In addition to what you’ve said DM, ‘neutrality’ is also a desire to have one’s cake and eat it. “I don’t want to lose your friendship… or theirs.” Right… then you spend additional sleepless hours wondering whose side they’re on.

        For one’s own sanity, take swift action on “neutrality”.

  • The biggest surprise to me was my sister. She had Nothing to do with our narcissist father for thirty years. I suffered through fifteen years of him giving her care by taking care of my mother at home with Alzheimer’s. I was there for her and had to witness his complete power over the woman he abused. It was substandard care and she never once visited our mother.
    She offered me not an ounce of empathy and simply stated he cheated on you for years and we never liked him. In the next breath she stated she would still do business with him and told me it wasn’t because she liked him she just needed his service.

    Her expectation was that I just get over IT. I never received one call or had a cinversation with her or my brother in law about me. Suddenly my father became a hero fir tasking care of her and he is invited to her home for dinner and she justifies it by saying he wasn’t that bad. They are rewriting history and I told her NO he abused her and us our entire lives.

    I stopped seeing every single one of my family members because I refuse to tolerate them.

    • donna – So sorry you were also betrayed by your family too, you are mighty for standing up for yourself and not tolerating that kind of bullcrap in your life.


      brit – CL is right on target, demote your “Switzerland” friends to mere acquaintances and make new ones that share your character. I have found that for each “Switzerland” friend I have left behind, I have found that I have forged deeper friendships with fun people who share my morals.

    • Yikes, it hurts when you realize how messed up your own family can be.
      I learned a long time ago that the family you create yourself can be much better than the one you are given at birth. I hope you have many loving and supportive friends you can turn into your chosen family.

      • AllOutofKibble

        The family I created is amazing. My biggest fear was he would con his way into being the victim as he had for years. I do have others I can trust including my friends and cousin.

    • Donna–I’m sorry you’ve had to abandon your whole family. Like attracts like, so they are best clinging to each other while you live a non-toxic life away from them. But it’s still painful. We all wanted to think the world was a good, fair place. But it isn’t.

    • Sorry to hear that Donna – the “swiss-families” are the worst. Just wanted to offer you a hug.

      Timing couldn’t of been worse when I discovered my ex-wife’s cheating with my brother-in-law (my little sis’ husband). To make things worse, my little brother was also getting married shortly after discovery. I was his best man – the cheating brother in law was a groomsman in his wedding. WTF!!!

      My little brother was excited about getting married as he should be but he offered zero support for me and what I was going through. All he was concerned about was his wedding. Asshole. That was probably the biggest shit-sandwich I had to digest, being the best man for my brother’s wedding, while my cheater brother-in-law was one of the groomsman. It was also a huge shit sandwich for my little sis who was also a brides-mate alongside of my cheating whore of an ex-wife.

      • How horrible. I hope you and sis are well-rid of both cheaters by now. My former-SIL had to eat the sandwich for my wedding; my brother had cheated on her (but none of us knew that yet) and she kept quiet about it until my wedding was over. I can’t imagine how she was suffering (okay, now that I’m a chump, too, I can imagine it). They divorced shortly afterwards, and I’m still friends with her 20 years later.

        • Yes Tempest, my sis and I are both long divorced from our cheaters. It’s been some years now so the pain has subdued. I am currently living a very serene existence but my sis still struggles with this. I think the hardest part is 6 innocent kids now have broken families because of these family-fucker-tricks (I have 3 kids, my sis also has 3 kids).

          Glad to hear you maintained a relationship with your SIL for 20 years, sounds like YOU were a great friend to your SIL when she needed one. That alone says everything about your character.

          My belief is Switzerland is a destination – not a way of life.

    • Donna, it sounds like your sister and father share the same personality. Hope you don’t plan to help when your father gets sick. If that happens, just let your sister take care of him.

      • Interesting enough Lyn, he was just in a car accident and my sister text me. All I said was let me know and that was it. I’ve spent a lifetime being the caretaker, the selfless giver, and providing unconditional love to assholes. My mother was my best friend and for her I would do anything.

        Its a tough road eliminating the takers, users, and fair weather friends. Ending my relationship with the Limited was the most painful experience, yet it led to healing, personal growth and an authentic life.
        Kindness to ourselves should come first always. I so appreciate all the support from everyone here.

  • Hi BritChump,

    My story echoes yours, and the issue of Switzerland friends is something that has plagued me for a long time.

    My ex-wife and I were close friends with, let’s call them Bill and Jenny. Holidays together. Nights out. Our kids hangout. Bill was my cycling buddy. They were there for me on D-Day1 and 2 when I broke down.

    A few months later after we split up, my kids tell me that my ex-wife and her AP were over at Bill and Jenny for supper. I kept quiet for a while, but it happened a few more times, and I then had it out with Bill — I said that I found it hurtful that he would have my ex-wife + AP over at their dinner table, knowing that their relationship started as an affair. I told him I found maintaining a friendship difficult because I felt betrayed.

    I haven’t heard from Bill since. Looks like Jenny’s friendship with my ex was more important, and fundamentally Bill doesn’t want problems with Jenny, so maybe he just goes along with it.

    Women generally are the ones making social arrangements, and so don’t be surprised if they go with your ex. And the small matter of the affair will be spackled over.

    But you can’t get over it, because the situation it’s unjust. And as painful as it is, I’ve had to let go of these Switzerland friends, because I can’t live with their duality, or is it their indifference.
    My friendship circle has decreased, but I don’t drive myself nuts trying to rationalise their choice.

    BritChump, losing friends is hard, and I can’t say I’m 100% through it, but once you accept the loss of friendship, it gets easier. And if you’re after new friends, I’m in London!

    You may also want to read this old post

    • Hi NorthLondon,

      I noticed that you mentioned that they were cycling friends. I read a post a day or two ago when two people who commented mentioned their exes and cycling. My ex had an affair with another cyclist. Turns out they weren’t riding their bikes after all. Some of the people I have met through cycling have been very nice but I did notice that there was a group of people who pursued cycling to feed their egos.

      I was just curious as to how many other people happen to have cycling exes?

      • Hi

        Bill was my cycling buddy not my ex’s. I must admit that most of the road cycling pelatons I know are guys only.

        My ex-wife’s AP is her co-worker. All very text book!

        • My ex’s affair was with his “running buddy” not cycling. He was also into cycling. I also know that a semi-famous Christian announcer had his affair with a cycling buddy.

          • In my exes’ case he was battling old age with exercise and would always talk about how he thought he looked so young. I’m all for healthy living but he seemed to be a little obsessed with it. I actually started dating him because I wanted someone who wanted a healthy lifestyle. I didn’t really think about why someone would be so obsessed and competitive. Like I said, I know not all cyclists are like that but there is a big group that I know who fall into that category. A self esteem issue for sure.

            Thanks for responding Elizabeth Lee.

          • What I say is that no one needs an opposite-sex running or cycling or exercise buddy. And I say that as a former marathoner and 10K runner, a sports coach for a men’s team, and a lifelong gym rat. I see both men and women in my gym and yoga studio and have cordial relationships but no one is a “regular” or a workout partner. And the only group I see working out together are all married men and not at all interested in using our beloved space as a place to meet schmoopies. That was one of the reasons I signed up at this gym–it’s a serious place where people go to improve their lives, not tear them down. And the values start at the top with the person who owns the space.

      • Oh yes. ShiTBoX is / was a ‘glory cyclist’. As in, his cycling would consist of a few big cycling challenges that he could flaunt over social media to receive adoration.

        I don’t think he has the motivation or passion to persist at such a hobby when there’s no glory, however.

        He also used cycling as an excuse while cheating at least once.

      • Yup. STBX is a cycler. One night in March 2014 I found a little piece of folded paper on the floor in the kitchen by where he was sitting before he went out to pick up dinner. It must have fallen out of his pocket. That’s when I found the note from the slut to him where she wrote “last week we went cycling with your girls for the first time his year. I love riding bikes with you (and just riding you)”. That was the night the gas lighting ended and he fessed up that he had been having sex with our babysitter. Still…I have confirmation from friends that he has told them that the divorce must be because of more than his actions or our oldest daughter wouldn’t be living with him. (When she asked him if he was having sex with her he lied to her and told her he wasn’t so the daughter became mad at me for making her suspicious of him). He uses the fact that she lives with him to tell everyone that the divorce was more because of my hurtful actions and being a bad mom and he doesn’t even tell anyone that he’s still living with the slut babysitter. (They post on Facebook all the time so the people he’s telling this to knows he’s hiding something). The hurt and mental & emotional assaults still keep coming.

        • I’m so sorry, Kfl. I’ll bet your daughter comes around eventually once she can face the truth, but what an awful thing for her to inflict on you right now.

          • Thanks tempest but I don’t think that will happen. She’s 17 and He has been brainwashing her for many years, even back to when we were together. She would tell him lies about things I said before he got home from work and then when I disputed them he told me what I horrible mom I was to call my daughter a liar. He treats her like a partner and always refers to them as “we”. It’s very disturbing. She hasn’t responded to a text from me in over 4 months and loves living with him and the slut who is only 5 years older than her and in college. The slut acts like her best friend and it’s really the only friend she has. Honestly, I have come to accept that she is no longer in my life and I’ve now been in mourning over the loss of my daughter. I’m just so sad that I’m not even informed anymore that she’s been cast in a play or when it is (I found out from her therapist and this was after I approved her auditioning for it) that she got an internship this summer (that I approved her applying for) but I wasn’t told about it until I asked him if she was going to get a summer job. She didn’t even wish me a happy birthday until months later when I mentioned it at the JPA meeting with the attorneys. I will miss all the things I looked forward to like college visits, play performances, national honor society events and I may not even go to graduation because I won’t be included or even acknowledged. I don’t care any more about him but the loss of her will always hurt but I’m getting help for it

            • There’s a book, “Emotional Incest,” by Patricia Love, about the damage that people do when they shift relationships with children into the space where a partner should be. The parent who bonds with a child at the expense of the other parent is hurting the supposed partner also doing terrible damage to the child. But for kids, being elevated to an adult role and being the bad parent’s actual partner is a very head, very powerful feeling. And of course, when the child goes to have her own relationships, what man can ever compete with Daddy or Mommy, who loved them best? I’m so sad for you, Kfl, and also your daughter, who is truly a victim in this, albeit a willing one for now. Keep doing the right thing, though–at some point she might get therapy and see what happened to her.

    • Hello North London
      I am in London too, let all us Londoners retire to the pub and raise a glass to the future

    • North London – I find friends very fickle at my almost-60-yrs of age. They come…They go…For whatever reason. You find new interests: Car racing, dog shows, sailing, horse shows, old-car-shows, singly-flyer plane pilot groups, underground groups, (think Star Trek) that are more popular than you know. For me, meeting all these ppl in Fairgrounds where various things are happening – well, who knew there were so many outlets for forming a group, getting close to people, they become good friends…or you’re bonding thru children. And, lo and behold – and it seems to usually be your best buddies….they fucking go out and fuck each other cuz, yanno, they had such a connection. I’m not sure any group is immune. Certainly nievly never thought it was a part of a dog show! Silly me. I was just interested in the dogs.

      So, yep – people are fickle, and you may go from one sport to another or religioun or whatever, even leaving a job, and those people are gone. When your marriage breaks up – to me, its understandable, somewhat, that many will drift off just by osmosis. Maybe would have happened anyway.

      But, I do pick my friends very carefully now and I don’t give rats ass that I’m down to two great g/f’s and one great couple friend. That’s all I need. Relatives, yep they’re all gone on his side (after 36 yrs) but I have a large family and that’s all I need. He also lost a huge family that loved him. His loss.

  • I have a rule about infidelity: no campaigning.

    In other words, it’s not my job to convince anyone that cheating, lying, stealing, and duplicity are wrong. If they side with my cheating STBXW, then either they 1) don’t know the full extent of her real behavior, 2) know and don’t care, 3) know and think it’s ok.

    If it’s 2 or 3, then your life is better off without those people in it. If it’s 1, and they never bother to ask, then either they are too wishy-washy or too dumb (to not even wonder that if someone lied to their spouse for 10+ years, they could also be lying to them) to be worth your time (or both).

    I will also add on important thing (just bear in mind that I am not a lawyer):

    If your cheating ex is lying to others about your behavior towards them, in terms of accusing you of something to others for which they have no proof other than their own testimony, then ***they are committing defamation and can be sued by you***.

    E.g., if your ex is telling others that you were abusive, but has never once filed a claim to that in the history of your marriage, then you very likely have a viable defamation suit against them.

    I know that in my case, if I discover proof of anything along those lines coming from my cheating STBXW (and I do suspect it, given that it’s such a common thing for cheaters to do, and it would logically explain some of the former friends who now avoid me since I kicked her out), I will – without any warning to her – slap a defamation suit on her, no question about it.

  • Hi BritChump!!

    In my situation, I have to say that very many of our mutual friends did not remain neutral and definitely chose a side–it was mine. In addition, my ex’s own parents haven’t spoken with him in a year due to the havoc he has wreaked. They can’t seem to get past the disappointment they feel for their son. They have remained very active parts of my life and that of their grand children’s, however, as they know my children and I were the victims (hopefully one day I’ll say “survivors”) of his childish and selfish abuse. Most of his friends and family find him unrecognizable in comparison to the man he used to be–eh hemm…to the man we all BELIEVED him to be.

    There were maybe 4 couples we would hang out with occasionally that have clearly chosen the side of the cheater. These are childhood friends of his that are complete alcoholics and have been known to stray on their spouses more than once. Guess Cheaters like to flock together! It’s ok by me. I only ever interacted with said people while me and XH were together for the sake of XH! I say GOOD RIDDANCE to anyone who turns a blind eye to the pain and suffering of a “friend” because they either A) don’t want to get involved or be burdened by someone else’s’ pain (which is equally repugnant), or B) they share the same morals and values when it comes to infidelity.

    I hope this helps you on your road to recovery! Hugs!!

  • I too am ending many friendships the duplicity they expect from me. I have one friend who has a crush on her neighbor for over a year now, and when she asked me what I thought about divorce it sent off all sorts of alarm bells. Who contemplates such a thing, blowing up her family for
    Nothing. She claims to be unhappy, but she can’t be specific. I have tried to turn her in the right direction but she isn’t getting the message so I am slowly backing out. I feel so bad for her husband and children but can’t say anything, Does anyone have any advice for me?

    • Refuses–since you’re considering losing her as a friend anyway, why not confront it head-on? Tell her how devastating it is to a partner and children to not only suffer a divorce, but to do it for an affair. Does she really want to inflict that on her husband and children? She may be selfish enough not to have considered this, but see if she’s at least redeemable once she is forced to contemplate the effects of her actions. Wield the 2 x 4–tell her outright that if she has issues in her marriage she needs to talk through them with her H, preferably with the help of a MC, before she does something that can never be undone. At this point, I’d be blunt with her.

    • She may be unhappy, but ending her marriage just on a crush (and who knows if the other guy even knows she exists!) is crazy. She really needs to talk to someone professional who can help her articulate why she’s unhappy and other more productive ways to resolve it.

      My XH never said he was unhappy until the day he said he was leaving for the OW, one of my former friends. If he had said he was unhappy and we had gone to counseling, it may have been the marriage would have ended anyway. But *I* would have had a say in the decision and time to process it. Not an announcement after I came home from work.

      • Maybe you should tell her that she should leave because her husband would be better off with someone who didn’t develop crushes on other men instead of facing issues in herself and her marriage. LOL. Of course, that would probably be the end of your friendship with her. This kind of touched a nerve for me, because my ex developed an adoring “crush” on his married coworker and basically blamed me for the lack of closeness in our marriage. All the while he was spending all kinds of time during work, business travel, and who knows what else with this woman instead of investing time with me and our family.

    • RefusestobeStupid – Why don’t you tell her that she needs inform her very own husband that she’s unhappy in the marriage, and add that her husband has a right and deserves to know. After all, he’s the one in the relationship, sheesh! It’s awful, because it seems she’s slowly checking out and sniffing around.

  • Britchump-

    CL is spot on as always. The people that are remaining friends with your ex are not worth being friends with anymore. The only mutual friends the ex and I had were from our neighborhood. The ex had friends from work but I wasn’t sad to bid any of them adieu. As for the neighborhood friends, well I moved out of the neighborhood and a considerable distance away so if they’re all still friends with the ex, he won them in a geography contest. No big loss there.

    It is one of the side effects of divorce. I got to keep all my real friends and of course my family and they are the only people that matter. You will come to find that your life is much more enriched when you cut all the people out that don’t add value. Hang in there. I promise this gets better with time.

    • Yes. Thanks. Funny thing was that a very good friend of mine cut her off at Facebook and refused her friend requests after d day. She was right royally pissed off! He had my back when very few others did.

  • And this here is why I’m ready to move across the country. I know that so many friends are just going to be so lost. So enamoured. I’m not that sparkly. I don’t have the whitewash, the lying spirit, nor the energy to create the facade he will. I’m pretty sure it’s going to be “I wanted kids, CR didn’t and was only about her career” … And I don’t care that some people know it’s really about me not wanting to share my husband with hookers.

  • Most of our friends — including XH’s affair partner — were his coworkers. When he moved in with her, I lost touch with all of them. One guy sent me greetings via a mutual acquaintance, and I got one Christmas card from one girl. But after that, nothing.

    Again, it’s for the best. What were we going to talk about, projects they were working on with him and/or her? I have no idea how the news of their leaving each other’s spouses went in their company. But who cares, really.

  • Major Cheaterpants hated most people…if I had ever accepted a dinner invitation for us to eat with a couple he hadnt met before, he would have flatly refused to go. My Godfather was a General and my Godparents invited us to brunch and Major Cheaterpants flatly refused and left me to play the pathetic 3rd wheel.

    So even though he hated most folks (narc much?) when he did make a friend, they were “give each other kidneys” sorts of absolute, deep friendships.

    So Cheaterpants drops dead and all these bestfriendsintheuniverse people come forward to help with the funeral, give me money (really odd, they gave me massive cash…like $20K) and stood steady (really steady as in literally next to his grave)

    The first weed hadn’t sprouted on his fresh grave and these folks disappeared like farts in the wind. Gone, dust, poof. His very best friend in the universe told me he would be there on X day with tool belt in hand to help with the house. No show no call.

    My daughters God parents literally never called, emailed or spoke to her after the funeral …uh, isnt the whole meaning of “Godparents” to help form and lead you if your parent dies?

    I will never know if these folks 1) were so uncomfortable with death that they couldn’t face me 2) thought I might try to steal their husband 3) knew he was a lying louse to me all those years (he was a serial adulterer unknown to me until after he was dead) and don’t want to deal with that or 4) didn’t like me in the first place

    In the end it doesnt really matter. They are gone and I kept the $20K and I have other friends.

    Oddly enough, a few of his blood relatives learned he was an abusive cheater and thought he acted like a huge ass and stuck by me. His cousins wife used the word “treachery” in describing him. Some of thee folks came to my subsequent wedding and one of them did a reading. Go figure. Some folks actually have a good judge of character.

    • In my experience, Unicornomore, some people are so uncomfortable with death, it’s like they think it’s catching. They stick around for the funeral because it’s the right thing to do and it looks good, but after that, they vanish. There were a whole bunch from my former church who came out of the woodwork right after my son’s death and who were gone a short time later. It took a while to dawn on me it wasn’t a true friendship with them. I was just a service project. Some of these were people who had snubbed me before due to cheater ex’s lies. With them I knew it was all for show so they could convince themselves they were good Christians. I had their number though, so I wasn’t surprised. The others though? Ouch!

  • Trust that he sucks. That goes for the sparkly cheater in the other relationship too.
    I don’t even talk to my neighbors. The other day I just told one that “I don’t have the time and energy to put into finding out and disproving whatever lies he told all of you.” I left it at that. I too, am not sparkly, but I have other friends, actual friends that I am close to, that make me laugh and feed my soul and tell me that I am doing the right thing.

    CL is right they can’t handle you. Every time the wife sees you she probably gets a twinge in her stomach, the kind that reminds her she’s eating the shit sandwich every day of her life while you got out and saved yourself.

  • I havent divorced…yet however I have been taking inventory of our friends at this point. I realize that my h has already lost friends due to his poor character. Ie. The wives told their husbands to cut my h lose. Most likely his bad behavior. I felt bad at one point for this. I thought he was depressed over his lack of friends. Hah, he was pining for his former ap. Anyway his current set of “friends” are gossip fiends. They are big drinkers so he can have at them. I guess im lucky here. Theres not much to lose. My friends arent his friends either. Boo yah!

  • CL’s past advice on Switzerland friends helped me to walk away from the ones in my life and this post contains the same sound advice.

    Pretty much all of our friends were friends that I brought into our relationship including these Switzerland friends. I didn’t lose any friends when his cheating was revealed but I chose to walk away from these folks. I’ll call them John and Mary. We met them about 3 years after we were married so we knew them for over 20 years. During this time, John and I almost always made the arrangements for get togethers, catching up, etc. I’ll note here that a few years before cheater was revealed, John had an EA (yeah, that’s what he convinced Mary it was) with a co-worker. Mary kicked him out for a while but eventually took him back, which is fine since that’s her choice.

    When cheater was revealed, they decided that John would support cheater and Mary would support me. Then one day out of the blue, John emailed me an article on forgiveness. I was royally pissed but didn’t respond. He called me the next day to see if I got his email and I went off on him. Somewhere in there I made a comment about cheater being a serial cheater and he said he didn’t know that because cheater had not shared that information with him. So cheater was lying – I mean, omitting – key information from his conversations with John. When the prostitute usage came to light, I called John to let him know directly.

    They continued to spend time with cheater (dinners out or at their house, etc.) and I slowly started to back away from them. At one point, John called me and stated that he had not talked with cheater in months so I opened up a little about what was going on with me. I found out later from my daughter that they had lunch with cheater the week before that call so I knew they were playing me for some unknown reason. That’s when I really backed away from them – stopped answering their calls, returning voice mails and texts. As a New Years resolution, I blocked them on all social media. They are now in my mind officially out of my life. If cheater is the type of person they want in their lives, then they can have him – he’s all theirs.

    Do I miss their friendship? Nope. It was too much of a hassle to watch what I said to them knowing that it might be shared with cheater since my life is none of his business these days. Honestly, it’s a relief to let go of Switzerland friends.

    • Wow,, it’s one thing to be a Switzerland friend. Quite another to be a manipulator. John is an asshole. Good riddance.

    • ByeBye, that is despicable for your “friend” to basically be culling information from you to probably share with your STBX. Maybe your STBX even put him up to it, who knows? Glad they are out of your life. You don’t need friends like that.

    • I feel so blessed to have kept most of our friends. By the time our marriage imploded, my ex was pretty firmly ensconced in OW’s life and mutual friends. He turned his back on all our friends and moved away, which is fine. At one point he even mentioned that none of our old friends would talk to him. He wasn’t the kind to invest much in friendships anyway, he mostly relied on me and my social network for that.

      After we separated, my ex moved closer to OW’s family and even coaches her kid’s sports team. Ex played the sad sausage and OW’s parents took him in to live with them for awhile. I’ve often thought of sending them the manifesto I found on his computer where he describes how much he adores their daughter and is “planting seeds” to break up her marriage. In the manifesto he talks about how “society’s rules don’t apply to me, I can make my own rules.” My counselor advised me to just file it away because most likely STBX would say I made it up. Yeah, I’m crazy. OW is still married, btw. It is so weird, I wash my hands of the whole sordid affair.

  • I don’t often address the issue with ex friends. But occasionally when I get an invite to something from people who enabled his behavior or coddled him like a widower or my best friend and real estate agent wants to know why I won’t sign papers to list the house with her, I have responded.

    “My path has been difficult and I am forced to build a life from scratch. At this time, I am choosing not to associate with people who have made efforts to help Ex maintain his comfort zone. That may change over time, but today that is the choice I have made.”

    • I like what you tell them and will use it. I don’t want to see these people who turned their back on me but know that I will. I worried about what to say when our paths crossed. This is helpful.

    • Well said. And the friend/real estate agent will have to contemplate the consequences of his or her own actions. If they want to be trusted, they need to show they are worthy of trust. I wouldn’t put my house in the hands of a supposed friend who hasn’t got my back; I’d rather deal with a thoroughly professional stranger.

    • This gets copied and pasted in my ‘Handbook on Dealing with Narcs and the Swiss’. Thx a bunch.

  • Years ago, a friend of my STBX had a very public affair, flaunting it in front of her then new husband’s friends. A fucking bitch. I didn’t want anything to do with the friend, saying it was disgusting what she had done, especially as it was so public and humiliating for her husband.

    The STBX (in a massive red flag) said “there are reasons for everything” and refused to write her off. I never let the friend back into my life, but the STBX stayed friends and got pissed because I wouldn’t hang out with her and her eventual second husband.

    Anyway, the STBX used the same bullshit line with me (ie the affair happened for a reason) and, of course, had the bitch friend as a confidant after DDay 1+2. If we had ever reconciled, condition # 3 would have been to write off her enabler friend. But it never came to that – both of their characters suck and I am glad to be rid of both of them.

    I actually hated being around a lot of the STBX’s friends, so I am happy NOT to have to worry about neutrality. They can think what they want. A few already know she had an affair, which I am sure she has spun because “there are reasons for everything”, but in this case it is just shitty character.

  • It is really hard realizing people you thought were friends go to the other side. Some of them have been friends for thirty years slept on my couch ate my food gave them rides compassion and every last ones crossed over but two. Asswipes best briend from childhood who lives on the other side of the country called me to talk and told me to protect myself and take care and his friend asswipe has always messed up his relationships because he has emotional issues and is way too closed up. Also told his friend asswipe exactly how he felt about all this he calls me occasionally to see how i am. I appreciate that. Another long time couple friends call me and come see me occasionally the wife wont see asswipe. She was cheated upon and beaten by her first husband and wont have anything to do with asswipe. It hurt asswipes feelings (ha like he has any) she wont go near him. Image control for whore juice and her family and the husband will meet asswipe out somewhere but not go to his house. Fuck these fake people if jumping on the cheaters side enhances their image.

    • Kar marie, interestingly, one of cheaters friends from before we married is a friend of mine on FB but not connected with cheater on FB (cheater rarely used FB). Anyway, this guy messaged me last year and said that he was hesitant to ask but noticed I wasn’t posting anything about cheater so he wanted to check to see if everything was ok. I didn’t go into detail but told him we were not together anymore because he was cheating. This guy replied that cheater was an ass for doing that to me and told me that he understood what I was going through because his first wife cheated on him. He dumped her and is happily married now. Told me he supports me 100% even though he lives on the other side of the country. How awesome is that!

  • Cheaters premeditate their narrative to friends because it allows the cheater to justify their actions. Cheaters are always steps ahead of the unsuspecting chump by planting seeds to friends during and after their cheating rendezvous’.

    It’s not unheard of that the “friends” buy into their manipulation – after all that is what cheaters are good at – manipulation for gain of self image. In the end the cheater doesn’t really care about anyone but their own happiness. Switzerland friends can stay in Switzerland!!

  • I would say that I lost 95% of our mutual friends.

    5 years later, my crappy “friends” who turned their backs on me and picked him as the friend, still look at me sheepishly whenever we see each other, because they know they suck. My life is great now, especially since I no longer have crappy friends.

  • Wow, the stories on here… I am lucky I guess. We had very few common friends. His ‘friends’ were all work-related acquaintances anyway and I became friends more or less with the spouses. Since finding out he cheated, I was seriously afraid of losing only one of those ‘spouse friend’ and I didn’t. He’s actually done me so much good. Now, MY friends; the ones STBX didn’t like, felt threatened by and made feel bad about seeing; they’re all still here supporting me. Yeah, I AM lucky 🙂

  • So true!

    My Litmus Test in the future for potential Romantic Partners , as well as friends, is going to be their attitude toward Adultery (as well as other sinful behavior, like lying, stealing, etc). If they are OK with it, or think it’s the chump’s fault, or think it’s conditional (you got old, fat, didn’t meet needs, etc), you need to go. You are either a cheater, have been one, or will be one.

    Ex didn’t seem like a cheater, but he didn’t seem particularly upset when he heard someone else was doing it either. Bingo.

    • Sadly I saw a lot of those signs in my STBX – just didn’t think she’d stoop that low (even though she had before). You can’t teach stupid… although I’ll know better next time and will definitely run the test you suggest.

    • Yes!! Hannibal even said that of course Petraeus cheated because his wife had let herself go, and wasn’t too swayed by my arguments that his was an odious view since P’s wife had stood by him and raised their children.

      Now heading to Craig’s list to see if I can track down a time machine, and travel back a few years to slap myself for staying with that cretin.

  • For some reason, we as chumps, do seem experience much greater losses than just the spouse. They tends to be a lot of fallout after infidelity inclusive of family members.

    For me, I worked on setting boundaries and defining my new improved relationships with my parents and siblings. Outside of that I placed no effort. I moved and have begun again not looking back or wanting anything from my past at all. Fresh start sometimes means clearing all cobwebs first.

    While it felt so unfair, I realize now, I have simply been purged from a portion of the world where I now know I do not belong and what was unfair is that I ended up there for so long, not that I am purged from it.

  • Those aren’t “Switzerland” friends. They aren’t even “France” friends. They are straight up Mussolini friends.

  • I don’t think there is a person in CN that can say that they didn’t lose friends as a result of their partner’s cheating. Itspainful at the time, but you often realize that they are not your friends anyway or they are cheaters themselves. In my case, one of the people who turned on me was cheated on by her husband but stayed. She doesn’t know that I know about it and even though it happened almost two decades now, whenever she and her husband argue, she brings it up. Their daughter told me this. Now she acts funny to me because I didn’t make the same decision as she did. I didn’t want to be like her, being the marriage police for the rest of my days. Insecure, much?

  • Cheaters lie, manipulate and deceive to family, friends and foe. That’s who they are.

    They are masters at image control at the expense of anyone who dares to question.

    I have had those who have reached out to me and those I have never heard from.

    My family has supported me and the friends we had together, with one exception, have vanished.

    I am only sorry I couldn’t say to the ghosts, “Thank you very much, I wish I did it first.”

    • CJ: “I am only sorry I couldn’t say to the ghosts, “Thank you very much, I wish I did it first.””

      Totally agree with you; wish I’d ditched them first. The problem is that we are raw after the infidelity and seeking succor from friends. Having to kick both cheater and past friends to the curb is too painful to contemplate right at first.

      • Agreed, Tempest. Sometimes it takes a while for you eyes to open wider and see that the betrayal goes beyond the immediate cheater.

        Parting is such sweet sorrow…NOT. K / < k !

  • I am sort of cynical on the topic of “mutual friends.” Couples who socialize with other couples don’t meet the friend test for me. A friend is someone who loves you and has your back. Someone you can trust with your secrets and your heart and your worst fears. I have only a few friends. I have many people with whom I have friendly social relations but I am careful not to confuse that with “friendship.” For chumps whose marriage/ relationship was the center of social life, fidelity has to be more painful because more is lost along the way. My own take on it is that I never again will allow any part of my life (work, relationship, even family) to be so central that I am lost if there is some sudden change.

    • Good policy. I think divorce teaches us that lesson, but it’s still painful to see how shallow folks can be.

    • I totally agree LAJ. Social acquaintances no matter how longstanding are not the same as friends. Anyone who is only interested in me when I’m half of a couple is not a friend. Maybe it’s my age (almost 54) but these days I’m mainly interested in paring down my life and my lifestyle as much as possible to only those things and people I view as essential.

    • Nice point, LAJ. I made MoFaux the centre of my life. Really no defence for that. In retrospect, of course, clarity reveals this to be an essential play in their playbook as it ensures total control. The nasty melodrama then unfolds.

      All the eggs in one basket might only be advisable at Easter. Thanks for the nice lesson!

    • I agree that there is a distinction between friends and those in one’s social circle. However, in those months after D-day when any support was treasured, the difference was not as clear, and the loneliness just felt … lonely. It’s easier to draw the line from a position of strength a year out.

  • I’m struggling with my family still being friends with the ex. My parent’s are polite but my cousin still is friends with him. WTF? I guess him being a cheater, treating me like dog shit during the divorce, and being emotionally abusive wasn’t enough to turn them? COME ON. His family dropped me like a hot potato except for an aunt and a cousin.

  • Britchump consider it a blessing in disguise. If they choose to side with your ex they aren’t worthy of your time. You’ve got a new lease on life and once you get your feet settled under you adjusting to singledom you will find many new friends who are sympathetic to your cause. You win some of the 50/50 friends and lose some, don’t let it get you down as it sounds like you are well on your way carving out a new path in life.

  • ChumpLady, I wish you’d run a blog about how to get through one of your kid’s weddings with your ex who you detest , the AP wife and and room full of old Switzerlanf friends.., ugh!

    • A friend of mine had this experience. She planned a lovely, lovely wedding for her daughter and there was her Ex and his Schmoopie ( in an expensive but too provocative dress, glued to the Ex’s side). My friend was very smart, though. Instead of sitting just with her own family, she had several tables of her good friends (me included) where she could sit down and surround herself with people who loved her. She spent some money on a perfect, perfect dress and had her makeup done for the day professionally. So she looked happy and glamorous. It helps that her family is Greek and so a lot of the dancing was done in a group. We had such a wonderful time. Honestly, you could have divided the room in half—the people who were dancing their hearts out and enjoying life with the Greek contingent and those who ate dinner and sat until it was time to go home. So my thought? Make sure you’ve got your support system there. Look your best. Spend time with the people you love and who love you back. There’s no rule that say you owe people who aren’t in your life anything more than civility and courtesy.

      • Thanks, LAJ, your words help a lot! It should be a wonderful, happy day, one I’ve always looked forward to, and yet I dread it! Hopefully when the day comes, I can do what you say and invite and surround myself with only my real friends and loved ones. I want the focus on my daughter and her groom, so I hope and pray I can be at least civil to the fuckwits! The shit sandwiches just keep coming!

        • Hi Movingon@51

          I’ve been through this recently — this wasn’t a wedding, but my son’s barmitzvah in September 2015
          My ex-wife and her AP were at the synagogue/temple service, and at the party, playing the lovely couple. Plus my ex in laws and Switzerland friends were in tow.

          It took a lot for me to keep my cool and feign enjoyment — I use Mindfulness techniques and breathing — nothing like “family event” to trigger PTSD. And to some extent, I did manage to find joy, but it would have been far easier without my ex and AP there. This wasn’t quite the barmitzvah I had envisioned for my son many moons ago.

          The suckerpunch was from my ex SIL who came up to me and said what an awful thing had happened to me, and they had told my ex-wife so too. After 2 years of no contact, that’s her opening line. That said, in the same breadth I see on Facebook, she “likes” the profile pic of my ex and her AP.

          My daughter’s batmitzvah is in 2018, and I get to go through this again. Time heals. And I hope I will enjoy her event more.

  • My X’s family always professed to love me soooo much, but I got crickets immediately after all hell broke lose. I’m not sure I was all that broken up about it because, my X’s family was a roving pack of hyenas. (I know I’ve talked about it here a long time ago.) His mother, a cheater, spent time in jail for embezzlement. His sister, another cheater; had an affair on her husband while pregnant with his baby and then for at least 6 more years before she got found out. His brother would fuck Wilford Brimley if you put a skirt on him. The X father-in-law purchased lots of hookers. He had a bad back and one time even called his son to brag that he was actually able to get a boner with one of them! Hooray!

    After our marriage exploded, in all honesty I really had no intention of keeping in contact with these fucks. They were all awful really. I just tolerated them and made nice because that was hubby’s family. He looked like a prince in comparison. But turns out no . . . he was just as scummy as them.

    One of the most satisfying things I did was blow them all off my Facebook with an announcement that I was releasing the X clan into the wild. The Switzerland friends were next. And what’s amazing about that, is as you purge these idiots from your life, good people just find their way in. “Nature abhors a vacuum” as they say. 🙂

      • LovedAJackass, Rumblekitty posts always crack me up!!! Love em Rumblekitty!!!! I just have to be sure I’m not drinkin coffee or somethin 🙂 !!! Danger of spewing while crackin up!!! Thank you Rumblekitty for all the belly laughs!

        • I use the hyena reference all the time when people are behaving like…hyenas. It’s perfect.

    • My ex in-laws of nearly 30 years also wrote me off as soon as they got a whiff of trouble. Except for the one occasion that my MIL took me to lunch to encourage me to be a better wife. That was the last time I talked to her and it was a good two years before I moved out, so it wasn’t like I was gone from their lives. To this day, I don’t know if they know the truth. Ex claims he told them, but he is a liar. Up until then, I had a great relationship with his blended family…I was often called on as a mediator between siblings and steps, and I worked in the family business for several years.

      Pretty telling that my former sister in law has been the only one to reach out to me. She divorced her cheating husband (my brother in law) years ago after he was caught with a hooker and cocaine in another state. She, too, was written off by the family.

    • I actually consider the severing of all ties with my evil ex MIL one of the major perks of the divorce. She complained endlessly to anyone who would listen that I didn’t dress up enough or wear enough makeup. And doing volunteer work for my kids’ school when I was a SAHM? That made me next to insane. Why do something for free when you can get paid for it? Now her precious only son is living with his rode-hard-put away-wet former (or maybe current) stripper girlfriend. I guess this is another case of “be careful what you wish for” as my replacement certainly wears a ton of makeup and is definitely into being paid for her services. 😀

    • I always told Fucktard that if I had met his family before we got married, I would have run, not walked, away. This is a good reminder and I’m adding this to my list for fixing my picker. But don’t just meet them, sit back and observe their behavior toward each other and their spouses.

  • A 30 year friend of ours, brought up the kids together, she was a supposed pillar of the community, chose to back cheater ex and “embrace” the OW as a new member of the community. Basically let her walk into my ex-life. I knew about this because another friend on the periphery of our crowd witnessed it. She even invited ex and OW to their cottage as we used to do. She and her husband even sponsored OW to join the ritzy health club I had to give up during the divorce. Ugh. I guess she was a self-styled “non-judgmental” type.

    I wasn’t surprised when Switzerland friend later on decided to come across the ocean to where I had moved (a beautiful part of the world) and ask to stay with me for a vacation. I waited until the last minute then announced I wouldn’t be in town durong her visit, nah, too bad. When she asked why the change of mind, I let her have it. Just got in her face and called her two faced. How dare she support cheater ex’s bad character and still expect respect.

    • Awesome Marci!!! Honestly the gall of these disordered assholes! Your reaction / response was PERFECT! 😀 Awesome!!!

  • Cheater has no friends. He relied on me for social entertainment with neighbors and other couples. So I have zero Switerland friends like that. I just have experienced his Switerland enabling, cheating and rug sweeping adult family members. All that after 20+yrs. A complete nest of douchebaggery. It still hurts and my kids will always be in contact with them somehow. Like the rest of CN has stated, it’s time to exorcise those fuckers and find new friends.

  • I also find that a lot of couples do not want to deal a person after a divorce, because of their “single” status. It’s almost as if your single status is seen as a threat to their spouse (if you’re a woman, you’re a threat to their husband, and vice versa). You’re better off without these people anyway.

      • No, it isn’t difficult at all Tempest. I have a dinner party for one every night and I love it. I can eat everything and anything I want and nobody gets to pass judgement on this little black duck !! 🙂

  • My XBIL’s wife and I were very close – like sisters. She was supportive during divorce, tried to call XMIL on the carpet for allowing whore to visit their home, less than 3 weeks after our 70 day divorce. Anyway, she seemed to enmesh herself in the drama of it all. (She’s a Bravo junkie). She and XBIL Skyped with the cheater couple while they were at XMIL’s on Thanksgiving. She snapped a pic of whore hanging on XH’s shoulder – him with the smirk many of us know – while they were watching “our” niece play on Skype. She sent me a text on Thanksgiving telling me: “She’s ugly and a big step down. Happy Thanksgiving”. Here I was alone for the first holiday after 18 together. My mom had died of a heart attack the previous year. I knew the whore was ugly already, I had sent XBIL’s wife a pic when I found out I was cheating – nothing new there. At that point, my relationship with her ended. I don’t know if she did it to be mean, but it was inconsiderate at a minimum. Just the week before, I told her I didn’t want any updates on the cheaters.

  • What I really hate is when someone says “We still love you both!” I know they mean well, but really?

    • I got that one a lot.

      I did OK giving folks who said this the benefit of the doubt because I don’t expect them to understand the complete destruction and trauma brought forth by the cheating. (unless they too were cheaters, then they didn’t get a pass).

      I suppose I could have educated them and given them an ultimatum, but that’s not my style.

      I think some people who say things like this chalk it all up to basic incompatibility and look at it as an opportunity for both parties to find a better partner.

    • Uugh… I just got a birthday card from my X-MIL, signed “You’ll always be my daughter.” Really? I’ll always be your daughter? Then why the fuck are you so keen on having lunch with my replacement and my traumatized kids? She sent me a check, too. Should I send it back? Cash it and write a thank-you note, telling her I’ll be using it towards the kids’ therapy? Jesus…

      • Take the money. Buy yourself something nice. And send her a card or email thanking her for remembering your birthday. Sometimes in-laws are enablers. Sometimes they are victims of infidelity too, as the family as they know it is torn apart. Maybe your MIL is one of those.

  • The 2 Switzerland friends who I held deepest in my heart are/were my 2 adult children. I still find that hard to say at times. Once day before my son completely cut me off he wanted to catch up for lunch but he made it very clear that I was not to bring up the past. I was aware that he was protecting his father and his 3rd world acquisition. Now I don’t know about other Chumps but my past and all of my experiences in life are what have moulded me and made me the decent person I am today, So I was told to basically shut up by my own son and my daughter literally cut me dead from the get go and left me out of her wedding day, which I paid half of the cost for. I know that losing my 2 kids was the hardest thing I have ever been through. Losing so called ‘friends’ didn’t both me because I know that they are as weak as water like the ex but I thought better of my own 2 children. My kids have now embraced the 3rd world prostitute and her kids and they play happy families and they are all friends on Facebook. I don’t look at anything because it hurts my heart too much. The ex has gone and I am truly glad of that but for my kids to be gone also is the biggest hurt of all.

    • My post is invalid because my kids are not Switzerland friends they are actually my enemies now.

      • Maree…Im so sorry. What happened to you is more than devastating. Your ex must have told them some awful lies and painted you as the devil.He must have played the sad sausage routine to seem like your victim. So unforgivable. Maybe you could have a third party…someone your kids are close to…find out exactly WHY the kids have abandoned you. Then they can set the record straight. I hate these selfish manipulating fucks!!!

        • yo, I am not interested in my kids setting the record straight any longer. I was a very good mother and I was their only constant. I was with them 24/7 and the ex showed very little interest in either of them. It was my duty to keep my kids protected and safe, well fed, clean and clothed accordingly, live in a happy and safe environment, made sure all of their needs were met and then some. Whatever they would have to say now is irrelevant because they are like their father and that is as weak as pee and twice as yellow. They know that they cannot look me in the eye and say otherwise because they would be lying.

          • Maree

            “I was a very good mother.” This is the most painful experience imaginable. To think our children could discard us like the disordered cheater tells me that seed was planted for a long time. Unknown to me The Limited had been playing the victim to my children for years growing up. I was always off balance with his actions and he blamed me and the OW. All those private conversations about what a bitch I was to his family were excuse his behavior so he could receive their blessing to bring OW to their house. Not once did they question his behavior. It resulted in my decision to have no contact with his family for 20 years. Then he too discarded his own mother and father. I always wondered why he never stood up for me. Now I know why. He was so toxic I could never imagine anyone quite so evil.
            The only reason my children supported me was because my therapist helped me set boundaries and when I did his mask immediately dropped. They saw him for what he was. Yet, he is circling back now fucking with the daughter he never supported emotionally and was previously setting up to fail by convincing her siblings not to help her in her time of need. There is no end to the damage they inflict proudly.
            We get to live a life with integrity and peace knowing we did right by our children no matter of the outcome.

            • Donna some of your comments, “I was always off balance with his actions” and “I always wondered why he never stood up for me”. You have just described my ex. These cheaters are so much alike it is staggering. Is it any wonder we end up like we do when we placed so much stock in a*seholes who are not men by big boys.
              I will add one more comment “I was always very lonely” and if it wasn’t for my kids I would have dump his sorry a*se long ago. Suffice to say, I stayed and paid a very heavy price.

              • Maree,

                Its obvious which parent they take after, and its certainly not you. Someone who thinks that porking a 3rd world whore is even slightly acceptable. Take solace in the fact that you don’t have to dumpster dive in life.

                In life though, this shit happens a lot. In my own family, my father cheated on my mother – and became the exact opposite of what he claimed to be with us. Lo and behold, 10 years later – my sister has done the exact same thing – and shacked up with a clearly narcissistic prick and his viper-nest he calls ‘family’. I have since disowned said sister from my life. I want nothing to do with someone who enables her boyfriend talking shit about me behind my back, and she not raise a hand to defend me. Fuck them and their pretend ‘high society’ ways – its all complete crap.

  • 18 months after DDAY I am still civil and friendly with most of our friends and her family. The only ones I have gotten rid of are the ones who immediately started hanging out with the AP before the divorce was final. Even her family refused to meet him until she stamped her feet and caused a fuss. Not too many Switzerland friends but the few I have I am still friendly with. They are demoted a bit, but the reason they are Switzerland is they really don’t understand the depth of the pain infidelity causes.

    Before I was cheated on I believe I would have been a bit Switzerland myself. Until it happens to you you just don’t understand.

    • Chew, I absolutely agree with you! If this never happened to me, I would have been Switzerland and I know it. You can’t imagine the pain it causes unless it happens directly to you. It’s taken me a long time, and a few therapists, to realize that the Switzerland friends are not truly my enemy. I have 2 friends that are still friends with him. They were his friend long before I was in the picture, so I understand why they wouldn’t just abandon him. However, both of these friends have acknowledged that the ex is great to drink with and have a fun time with, but they do NOT respect him and do NOT agree with what he did. They also both dislike the, now, Owife but tolerate her for his sake. They could have abandoned me since I wasn’t truly “their” friend but only knew them through his association, but they chose not too since I’m a good person and they absolutely know it.

  • Thank the Lord for this post. What is worse for me is that my 2 girlfriends are staying in touch with myself and my ex. I keep hearing that there are two sides to every story! Yeah he cheated and I didn’t. However seeing either friend now makes me incredibly uncomfortable and paranoid. They never ask how I am and never mention the fact they see the whore monster. Anyway I have ditched them which they think is childish and stupid but it makes me feel better. I feel as if they must condone his treatment of me as they see him as someone worth seeing and listen to him, he who has lied to everyone from work colleagues family children and me. What makes them so special that he would tell them the truth. I am sad I have lost my two best friends though,

    • Polly, it’s not childish and stupid to expect your friends to support you and not your X and his AP. You need a safe place and support for healing and you can’t have that if what you say and do might be reported back to your X. The good thing is that you have learned these people are not really your friends and going forward you can find other who will be solidly in your camp.

      In contrast, my best friend flew 2000 miles on her own dime to spend her Christmas break with me and sat with me for 2 weeks in sub-zero temperatures when I couldn’t do much more than get off the couch. She cooked and helped my clean and rubbed my feet and listened. On her next trip, she helped me remove the last of Jackass’s junk and deposit it on his porch even though she said I should just take it to Goodwill and be done with it (and she was probably right). You only need 1 or 2 of these people in your life. But they are indeed a blessing.

    • Polly–if you feel better for ditching those friends, that’s all you need to know; it was the right decision. You are warm and wonderful and funny and intelligent, and new friendships are just an opportunity away. Hugs to you!

    • When I was at my lowest my best friend who lives in Paris asked me to come over for a couple of weeks and I did. She cooked and packed me sandwiches and took time off from work to hold my hand and hang out with me. When I told another friend what happened her words were: “Oh my God! I hope his dick falls off.” This is what true friends say and do. I know it is painful to lose people who you believed to be your friends and it is so easy to lose hope, especially under such grueling circumstances. Just hang in there and better people will come into your life, you will see. (((Hugs)))

  • Oh apt timing ! Only last week I saw pics of ex whole entire family from nieces and nephews to close friends we had socialised with for over 20 yrs laughing and embracing ex and AP as if his ex wife and kids had never existed ! They have not supported us at all , cannot fathom how they do it ! I soon sobered up and culled my circle ! Its all to common Im afraid , the ripples of betrayal go on and on and on ! Hold your head high and move forward without any one soul who hasnt got your back !

  • My wife not only left for her 4th affair partner, but completely abandoned our now 13 year old son without ever even visiting or calling him, not so much as a Birthday Card or Christmas Card and has not contributed one penny in the over 4 years since she left and us now living with affair partner number 5, by the way. But, after so much trial and error, even though all 4 previous others were also her Soulmate, this one truly is, lol. Gag!!!

    All of the mutual friends and all of her new replacement friends think she is Sooo wonderful and sweet and caring.

    People like that, I just don’t need in my life. Good riddance!!!

  • CL, this is a marvellous coincidence to have this subject before us today. I just received an email from a Switzerland couple. The wife, who is very loving to me, shared that MoFaux had been to their house for chats and to drink with her husband (alcoholic), had lost a lot of weight, been on a month long trip to an exotic location, etc. She said surely I would not mind her sharing a couple of things about him. [Don’t call me Shirley!]

    Well, I am a chump. In the past, I would have agreed with her. I don’t now. I intend to inform her of a few facts:

    1) I do not expect any inexperienced person to understand the impact of betrayal by a loved and trusted partner
    2) I hope they never get experience
    3) Betrayal requires premeditation, total disregard for the destruction of the partner, lying (outright or by omission), deceptive living and massive self-entitlement
    4) It is necessary for a cheater to garner the support and acceptance of friends for image management and to either blatantly or softly blame their partner
    5) Friends, unaware of the manipulation and fearful of judging, open their arms and inadvertently show acceptance and agreement with the behaviour
    6) Society completely misunderstands infidelity and fosters a culture for young people that confuses them, rather than teaches them how to identify and arm themselves against such incorrigible conduct
    7) Do I want to hear about someone who violated my trust? No. I actually have limits on what I will tolerate from someone who wishes to harm me. And by his violation, he has given up the right to access information about me from you.

    Yes, Britchump, I lost other friends, too, but I do not have the skills or desire to ‘campaign’, as sephage so cleverly called it. And as Buddy noted, it is more constructive to be building a new life than to deconstruct the lies.

    The world may actually not be as interested in my difficulties as I am! But for all Chumps, I certainly identify with YOUR pain and losses. This is the only place where it is truly understood. Great gratitude for this, CL.

    • “Betrayal requires premeditation, total disregard for the destruction of the partner, lying (outright or by omission), deceptive living and massive self-entitlement”


      Anyone who doesn’t understand that is simply too oblivious (or too stupid) to hang with you. I mean, that’s a potentially HUGE blind spot in their development as a fully-formed, moral human being (in my view).

      • It does hurt like a bugger some days, though. So many losses. I never could have imagined!

        I have to acknowledge that I was both oblivious and stupid to fall for his love bombing and then subsequent sad sausage routines. So, I kind of GET that they are all falling for his golden globe performance. Shit!

    • +1

      Nicely consistent with getting to ‘meh’

      leave a cheater and his/her defenders; gain a life in which you are too happy and adventurous to care about all those various (sad) losses which are firmly in the past.

    • Virago thank you! Wow…thank you! I have a few ‘well meaning’ family and friends I will share your post with as they seem to think I need to know / might care…and tell me things too. I will definitely share your post with them…you said it better than I have.

      • Jeep, it really triggered me to get that email. I guess the good that came of it is that I had to organize my thoughts. I wanted to respond and not react.

        I’ve seen how well you write. Your words would be terrific!

        • 🙂 Thank you 🙂 Your post said it all, covered it all so well. I guess, like one of our other Chumps said, unless you have had this experience you just don’t get it. Seeing / hearing / talking about satan triggers memories that are so painful they are debilitating…perhaps they will understand when they read it as you expressed it… Thank you so much 🙂

          • Until someone walks in the shoes of someone fucked over for any reason they just dont know and I hope asswipe and all his friends get fucked over royally then they shall knowth how it feels. And whore juice will get fucked over yet again when she finds out asswipe is cgeating on her. Twill be her fourth husband i guess she aint all that!!! Fuckers.

            • Much love to you kar marie 🙂 We are mighty and FREE 😀 They are disgusting and not human.

              I’ve been 2 x 4ing myself today after reading CL’s post this morning…how in the world did I give him all my young years…he is disgusting and YUCK! NOT HUMAN. I’m tryin to forgive myself. What an epiphany I had after reading it…scares me what else I might have stuffed down and not looked at whilst in the depths of hell with satan… I’ve never wished him harm in any way…never even gotten angry…just felt sorry for him losing our life together…now…after reading that post…ugh…he deserves whatever he is enduring. And he NEVER deserved ME. Sick alien bastard…

              • Much love to you too jeep. I too gave my youngest best productive years I onky hooe the best is yet to be. 2 months to go for me to leave yippee! Asswipe is all bent out of shape cause I wont be fis “friend”. Too bad so sad. Who needs friends who stab you in the back anyway? Not me you ir chumo nation. He is so uoset I will not have anything to do with him when I leave here he is already taking it out on whore juice. Hahahaha! Thats what she wanted I gave it to her. Hahahaha. Care what you wish for bitch. Asswipe is a handful!

              • Two months!!! My birthday is May 4th!!! What a nice present that will be!!! 😀

    • Virago, I loved your response. Every word speaks to me. I’ve experienced the same thing from a few superficial “friends” but I’m choosing to look forward and choose my friends more wisely. The gift of this incredibly painful and gut wrenching experience is greater wisdom, empathy, humility and understanding of human frailty and strength. Quite a few people disappointed me as either Switzerland friends or worse but at the same time a few people came out of the woodwork who have become very close friends. They fully got it either because they experienced it themselves or their fathers had abandoned their families in similar ways. I am choosing to celebrate this found goodness as well as that found in this CL community and do my best to pass down strong values to my children.
      Thank you for sharing,

  • I agree. You have to live it to understand it, like childbirth, and just as painful!

    • More painful than childbirth, I’d say. I took only one Tylenol for natural childbirth pain but have been prescribed all sorts of meds and therapy for my infidelity-related discombobulation. It’s the pain that keeps on giving.

  • We have Switzerland in our family. My brothers ex had an affair and left him for the ap. My brothers youngest child looks nothing like him but closely resembles the ap. Our sister was and remains close friends with his ex. She does not understand why our brother has disowned her…despite our numerous discussions with her about betrayal…heartbreak…loyalty…blood is thicker than water. She simply does not get it. She knew about the affair while it was happening and did not tell our brother. More betrayal! I have tried to make her look at it from our brothers side…what if YOUR husband were cheating, etc…but to no avail. We siblings have always been close…I cant understand this.

  • Thank you CL for this post. I struggle so much with the loss of mutual friends and ex’s family who I felt close to for the 15 years we were together. I’m not sure I can call them Switzerland friends/family since in the 2.5 years since the final D-Day and my divorce filing, I have never reached out to them to tell my side of the story. I’m not sure why…I think there is a fear of them not believing me b/c Ex is one of those, on the surface, total “good guys.” Good looking, great family man, friendly, good with kids, etc etc.

    The only one who knows at least a bit of the truth is my MIL, who reacted to her son’s affair by depositing money into his bank account so he could “do something nice for himself” to deal with all the marital stress, sending him daily texts about how she just wants him to be happy, so sorry he’s dealing with all of this. etc. Never mind that during that time of fake reconciliation, he was still taking funds out of our accounts to spend on his MOW. After the final D-Day, when he left for good and I found out he was on vacation with MOW, I called my MIL crying and she refused to believe me. She told me he was just getting away for a few days because we “fight so much.” Even though I had phone records, credit card records proving where he was. The last conversation I had with her, she told me she and her family would be supporting Ex just as my family was supporting me. Never asked me for details about the affair or how I felt, nothing. This was someone I thought I had a decent relationship with, had hosted numerous holidays, baby showers, wedding showers etc for her and FIL’s family (FIL passed away during the midst of the affair and never knew). I really was a good DIL, was always kind and friendly to Ex’s friends, even the ones I didn’t care for much. Since news of our divorce got out, not one of Ex’s family or friends has reached out to me to even ask how I am doing. Not even a text. A few defriended me on Facebook. Some have remained but have never contacted me. I go back and forth about writing some of them a simple note stating our marriage ended because of Ex’s affair and that I tried working it out with him for 1.5 years but ultimately he left to be with MOW.

    I did find out while playing marriage police that Ex had already begun a character assassination plot against me and even my family with some of his friends. I found emails saying untrue and unflattering things about us. It was so hurtful. I asked him why he did that and he said that’s just guys being guys, complaining about their wives. I realize now, he was setting the stage for announcing his divorce and the finding of his new true love…everyone would understand him leaving since I was painted as being an emotional and horrible b**** and that his inlaws weren’t much better.

    Anyway, whether his family and friends know of the cheating or not, they know of the divorce and after having been “family” and “friends” for 15 years, you’d think there would be a bit of compassion for me and our 4 yo son…that someone would reach out to ask how I’m doing. Maybe they want to mind their own business, but there is a big difference between minding your own business and showing compassion for someone going through a difficult time. If my husband had died of cancer, or been killed in a car accident, I’d probably have collected a nice array of lasagnas and casseroles, flowers, cards, memorials, like when my FIL died. Instead, I’ve been isolated and abandoned. What’s the difference? Isn’t this still a death?

    • FWIW, I did reach out to his family, and I got nothing good in reply. There was no blame, but no support, either. I’m only glad now that I did it so that I can feel comfortable that I said my thank-yous and goodbyes for my own sake and dignity. But don’t go there looking for sympathy – if you find it at all, it will be only of the most nonspecific sort “I’m sorry for your loss.”

      and, yes, this is a death — but the sort where the corpse is still up and walking around so you can have ongoing pain. I think it’s worse than death, precisely because, as you said, at least you’d get some sympathy and get to keep your friends (this happened recently to a friend of a friend, and I was embarassed that I was so jealous of the outpouring of support she received). For me, I don’t even get to keep my old good memories because I don’t even know if they’re real or not. Was it just me all along in those pictures? Was he already gone?

      Sympathies to you.

      • I can relate. It was so hard to lose contact with my mother-in-law who I considered to be a second mother after being in my life for 36 years. Just a couple of weeks after her son walked out on me, she said “I hope you can move on.” I remember thinking “WTF? Could you give me more than 2 weeks to recover from a 36 year relationship? A betrayal I didn’t see coming??” It hurts to not be included in a family I considered my own for most of my life. I’d seen this same scenario play out in my own extended family and knew how difficult it is to stay in contact after a divorce, even with the best of intentions.

        My MIL afterwards emailed and told me, “we can still be friends.” I answered her, “No, we will always be family. I’m the mother of your grandchildren, and you’re the grandmother of my children.” She seemed to appreciate that. I didn’t try to tell her anything about what her son had done, I knew she wouldn’t want to know. She will stand by and support her son no matter what, and that doesn’t surprise me. Besides, my ex always felt neglected by his mother so I knew he was enjoying her attention.

    • M2CJN, I hear ya. My ex MIL has experienced infidelity first hand from cheaters father and she never once contacted me when my world fell apart. Cheater said he told her what he had done when I threw him out and her reaction was that she told him she loved him because he was her son but she was not proud of him anymore. She hung up on him then called him back later. I’m sure he never told her or any of the rest of his family about his serial cheating or prostitute usage.

      He also made comments to me over the years about how I didn’t like his family which was not true at all and I would tell him that. I’m guessing he probably played that card with them about me along with several others that would make him look better than he was. Interestingly, when his father was declared terminally ill (before I knew cheater was a cheater), I had to convinced him we needed to take off work to go see his dad right away because we didn’t know how long he had or how hard the news may have hit his dad. Cheater wanted to stay home and hang out at the pool but finally agreed that we should go ‘if I thought it was the right thing to do’. Really? and he said I hated his family. His dad passed away 2 months after that diagnosis.

      I do at times wonder what lies he has told to protect his image but I also know that it really doesn’t matter what he has said. He’s always going to lie and there’s nothing anyone will be able to do about that. I so hope that the karma bus exists and hits him hard one day!

    • Dear M2CJN, I felt your pain when I read your post and it resonated with me. It’s awful when you found out your ex was badmouthing you and off on a smear campaign against you to his circle. It must have felt like such a betrayal and it doesn’t make any sense to us does it. Especially since we would never do anything like that to them. And who knows what he said to his family and friends about you.

      All I can say is, if these cheaters really shared their thoughts and let us in to what was actually going on in their minds, EVERYTHING would make total sense. They decide sometime during the relationship to check out and they don’t want to be with us, and their thinking continues this way. So they obviously tell others they aren’t attracted to us, or don’t want us anymore or insert whatever else criticism they have of us. But they don’t tell us, so we’re completely clueless. And then we find out the truth and we’re flabergasted and none of it makes sense to us. But it does make complete sense to others in the cheater’s circle, who have been “in” on their thoughts and feelings about us all along. These bastards just choose not to tell us how they feel, but completely cover it up and deny it.

      It’s only scum and lowlives who operate this way, not decent human beings. And chances are his family and friends most likely think like him and just accepted whatever information he dished out about you, without really caring about you. I’m sorry that you went through that betrayal and had to also grieve the loss of what you thought was once family and friends. It is a death in every real way and grieving is necessary. I’m sorry you had to go through that. It’s very hard and I do feel your pain.

    • M2CJN, This is all so familiar. I too was wondering where my MIL was or the Switzerland friend was, both who I supported endlessly through the death of their husbands. I had the same thoughts about it being worse than death, because at least with death they left you unwillingly and everyone supported you. I was glad he didn’t die because I wouldn’t want my sons to go through that, but then I was so pissed at all the people who were silent and couldn’t find two minutes to say they were sorry about my loss, that I was thinking that if his lifestyle killed him before the divorce, and I was still legally married to him, I would just have him cremated and put in an unmarked grave and not tell anyone where he was. That would drive them bat shit crazy, and it made me smile. I’m a few months beyond that now and know that not only did I weed him out of my life, but all the phony people with him.

      • Thanks and hugs to those who replied to my post. I hate that we all go through this with Switzerland friends and family. It feels like rejection all over again and that not only was my relationship with STBX a fake, so was my relationship(s) with these others. I should also say it isn’t just those from Ex’s side who slide off into the night after they hear of your divorce…even a few long time friends of mine from college seemed initially supportive when I first shared the news (they got a slightly edited version of everything as there are some very despicable details of Ex’s affair I just keep to myself)…they were supportive at first in terms of meeting me for dinner a few times and letting me vent…and then slowly I heard less and less from them and they became more busy so it’s become hard to even get together, even though all I want is some time with my girlfriends, not someone to just listen to me vent. At 2.5 years out, I save that for my counselor and my priest. I’m not sure if they are afraid they’ll catch the infidelity disease or if I just don’t fit into their circle of affluent, suburban married mommies anymore. I had to move closer to family an hour away, don’t have the financial luxuries they do, etc. I just can’t figure it out. It’s like, how hard is it to text a friend of 20 years to say how are you? I tried setting up some girl’s nights and a girls weekend, and got shot down so I’ve given up. I’m now focusing my energies on the close family I have and the one very long term (best friend since kindergarten)) friend I have that has stuck by me and show consistently that they care. And also working to make new friends too….sometimes it feels like having to build my life all over again, not just the marriage but finding other new relationships too. It’s tough, but the farther out from all of this I get, the more I come to accept it.

  • I really didn’t have much of a Switzerland friend experience. It became apparent very quickly that my stbx was trolling for information about my whereabouts, and receiving it. And burglarizing my new home. And ringing my new phone off the hook. So I got a job transfer, moved to another city, and left his family and mutual friends and acquaintances behind. I kept the friends that were mine before. Problem solved. Yes, it was painful. But the Fucktard ex was a master at extracting information from unsuspecting people and the only way to maintain no contact with him was to go no contact with a lot of people.

  • There is only ONE reason people go Swiss on you that matters:
    They never really cared about you that much.


    There’s all breeds – people who are “best friends” with you as long as it’s convenient for them, people who don’t want to be brought down by your misery, married people afraid of divorce contagion, etc.

    These a fair-weather friends no one needs. They can’t be fixed. Don’t do a pick-me dance with these assholes either. They can all go fart in a phone booth and fuck straight off to Hell.

    • Excellent point!!!!

      @Jersey Girl which part of NJ are you from????

    • Oh you are soooo right FarBetterOff!!! Eat my dust!!! Yes sireee!!! After all we’ve stood up under HOW DARE THEY even IMAGINE what they think MATTERS anymore EVER!!!!

  • I don’t know if anyone else has had this experience. But some friends tried to be Switzerland, but ended up supporting me because the blasts of ‘she is so evil’ went against who they knew I was. So some of them have turned from being switzerland to becoming allies.

  • It is tough when you realize your circle of friends are playing the Switzerland card and don’t have your back. Post DD#2 I learned that EVERYBODY knew what my EX was doing. Some told me that my EX bragged about having a gf (OW#2) and that he took her to their parties (while we were still married). I do understand that my EX lied and manipulated them as part of a stellar gas-lighting campaign. However, it is really difficult to forgive the best friends (a couple) for never saying anything — even when my EX moved out to ‘think about things’ (but openly moved in with OW#2) leaving me in limbo for over a year. Later they told me they tried to reason with my EX. Funny thing – it was very important for my EX to keep all of the friends and he proactively went to them to tell them his sad story. Only my best friend called bullshit on him.

    I no longer actively pursue any kind of relationship with these people.

    • I was wondering when someone would bring up the friends that KNEW. So painful.

      In my case, XH’s coworkers made up our social circle. I thought we were a tight group of loyal friends. I discovered one affair in an email from XH to one of these friends who provided the alibi.

      After D Day, I realized that all the husbands in our tight knit circle knew & most likely the ladies did too. The pain & humiliation was unbearable. It physically hurt.

      Of course my X threw his friends under the bus & claimed all the guys were cheaters. I had no first hand knowledge of this, only what he spewed out of liar lying hole in a panic at being caught. My response to the smug “but we love you both” from our “friends” was stone cold silence.

      Not my circus, not my monkeys anymore.

      But hugs to you- the sting of the humiliation masks the grief of losing those A-holes most days but I still mourn that I wasted all that precious time when I could have kept looking for my “tribe”.

  • Over a year ago, I got used to the idea that my STBX’s friends (e.g., the godfather of one of my kids) who knew about my STBX’s adultery (affair partner) but said nothing to me were NOT my friends.

    However, I am struggling with my sister (a psychologist) being a ‘Switzerland friend’ in regards to my ex-boyfriend, who was her classmate in undergrad. (I was a few years ahead of them at the same university.) I don’t think that my ex-boyfriend cheated on me, but he lied to me, invalidated me, and treated me badly (e.g., talked about how he wanted to run away from me, making me feel as though the constant support I provided him him over the last year meant nothing to him, offered me meaningless ‘friendship’ after I ‘got over him,’ and gave me too much information about what he wanted from his dating life after he broke up with me, like wanting his therapist to help him figure out why his relationships generally lasted no more than three months.) I feel as though I have been discarded again (since STBX discarded me) without a thought, and ex-boyfriend is living it up, while I am struggling (physically, emotionally, financially). I am upset that my sister may attend his wedding (when he remarries), and he may attend my extended family’s family functions. I want to see my family, but I really don’t want to see him or his new partner(s), especially while I am hurting and single, which I may very well be for the rest of my life. Unfortunately, I am a long way from Meh. What to do?

    • RSW–I wouldn’t worry too much about marriages in the future, but certainly about your mental health right now. That sister is not in your inner circle of support, and may need to be at arm’s length for a while. Surround yourself with supportive people, and only supportive people. When we feel sad and depressed, especially right after a trauma, even small injuries feel huge and insurmountable. Let yourself heal before you tackle any more issues or decisions. Hugs, friend!

    • Rock Star, I’m thinking you dodged a bullet with the former boyfriend, if his usual relationship lasts around 3 months. It sounds like he isn’t capable of the kind of relationship that you want. Here’s a prediction I feel certain of: if you focus on healing from your XH and give yourself a year without dating, and meanwhile work on your picker, you will get much further on the road to meh. I worry about you because I know you are really hurting, but until you recover from the first trauma, you run the risk of piling up layers of unhealed pain. It took me 27 months and weekly therapy before I was ready to go out with someone. And I’m still going slowly. I’ve always preferred to be “in a relationship,” but after years of repeating the same patterns–getting involved with the wrong person, getting hurt, working myself up to leave, and then stuffing the pain–I finally ran into someone who hurt me badly enough that I said, “Enough.” And I changed. It’s not easy, but nothing worthwhile ever is. What’s on the other side of working on yourself is worth it.

      • Thanks for sharing your story, LAJ. Hearing other people’s stories helps a lot!

  • My ex and I were very good friends with a married neighbor couple for several years during our marriage. We were like family. We were friends through the births of children all the way through their graduations from high school, we helped each other out, we had cookouts together, birthday parties, holidays, etc. The wife was like a sister to me.

    When my ex and I divorced, I got the house. My ex moved out. When I confided in these friends that my ex had been cheating, it came out that there was an incident several years prior (when our children were just babies) in which they caught my then husband with another woman at our home while I was away with our children visiting their grandparents. (He actually sneaked over to their house in the middle of the night to skinny-dip in their pool with the OW!) They chose not to tell me about it when it happened because my ex swore to them “it would never happen again.”

    I, of course, was devastated to hear this bit of info from someone whom I had thought of as my dear friend! It felt like another layer of betrayal. I do understand not wanting to be the bearer of bad news that likely would have caused mayhem in my marriage… She said she thought confronting him would be enough to scare him straight and she told him she would tell me if she ever found out about him pulling something like that again. But, I can’t help feeling that her decision to confront him and leave me in the dark only served to alert him to be more careful and not bring his whore friends to our house!!

    I question, too, my friend’s decision to tell me all of this during my divorce… Was it to ease her guilty conscience for keeping his secret all those years? It served absolutely no useful purpose for me to hear about it 20 years later. I felt stupid and humiliated that they all knew about it while I was blindly going along being a good wife and mother. Her confession only ripped the scab off of my wound…

    To top things off was when these same friends declared that even though they didn’t condone my ex’s behavior, they still loved both of us equally and were taking a neutral stance. They claimed that what happened in our marriage was between us…

    I tried to maintain a friendship with them for a while, but I could not get past the fact that they could overlook his infidelity and be chummy with him and, soon thereafter, his new wife — having them over to their home in plain view of me while I was living right next door still trying to pick up the pieces of my blown up world.

    • You have every right to feel betrayed by these so called friends. You were betrayed by them. It served no purpose to confess to you after so many years except to cause you more pain. At least they showed their true faces and you can see them for who they are. It’s amazing how when we finally see through the cheater’s mask, we start seeing other people for who they really are.

    • Over and Out hugs to you! …see Virago’s comment a little ways up…I’ve experience the ‘ripped the scab off’ emotional roller coaster too from people I love and care about…Virago said it very well…

      …honestly…the gall of some people! …someone’s meme the other day was the ‘soup guy’ NO SOUP FOR YOU! Yep…PAINFUL / (pseudo) support 20 YEARS later!!!! WHA!!!??? …nahhh…keep that bs TO YOURSELF asshole! One of my former neighbors did pretty much the same to me…heart breaking on so many levels…

      Sometimes I just think society is doomed…look at this crap! IAN! WE NEED THOSE BILLBOARDS AND FIRE ANTS! DUDE!!!! SAYIN!!!

      • It was less painful for me to get past my ex’s infidelity than it was to find out how many other people either supported him, enabled him, or simply overlooked his indiscretions and were able to carry on a relationship with him as if such behavior is no big deal. It won’t be until he crosses them in some Godforsaken way that they might reassess their relationship with him. I clearly see now how most of those Switzerland friends shallowly glommed onto my ex because he can be such a fun, sparkly guy. I was included by association (i.e. his wife) rather than any true deep-seated feelings for either one of us. People liked me and were nice, but my ex is a musician in a band – that was a bigger draw for fun and excitement.

        Someone posted a comment yesterday that she cheated in her marriage, then married the AP, and all the “friends” stuck with her after the divorce because “none of them really liked her ex husband anyway.” She seemed to view that as proof of what a wonderful person she believes herself to be… My ex was the life of the party and a source of entertainment. He had to be the center attention because it always was all about him. He often would say nasty things about people behind closed doors and be their best friend in public. So many times he would bitch and complain if someone invited him (or us) to do something that he viewed as uninteresting and boring. He’d lie to them and say that I said no! That way they wouldn’t be mad at him… He knew exactly how to play the crowd.

        • Wow Over and Out! Amazing how alike they are. satan isn’t a musician but yep, life of the party – till he passes out – alcoholic…otherwise he sounds just like your x. Talkin crap about people behind their backs, smilin in their face… he often boasted to me that he had the ability to smile and be friendly with anyone, even people he just hates. he was very proud of this ability. Narc much satan?

          …sometimes I just quiver with disgust at myself for giving so much of my life to such an awful, hateful, despicable person…ugh…damn! How did I not see him as he really is!!!! Truly these creatures are actually aliens. Soul sucking aliens subsisting on human beings.

  • Thankfully, I didn’t experience too much of the Switzerland friend thing. One of my ex-husbands good friends told me he was on my team (WTF!) but later I found out that he knew of the OW for a very long time but never thought to clue me in. I don’t speak to him now. And frankly, he lacks a moral compass himself so I don’t feel especially heart broken over the loss of that relationship.

    Almost all of my friends do not associate with my ex now. If they see him they may say hello in an effort to not be rude in public but otherwise…….they have no desire to speak to him. One of our “couple” friends told me that he reached out to them to see if perhaps they would ever consider going out together as couples for dinner, to which my friends husband told him that was highly unlikely as they did not want to become friendly with OW. He has not ever reached out again. I am lucky to have some pretty loyal friends!

    It is painful when you discover that someone knew about the affair but did not disclose that information to you. I try not to think about it. I have nothing to be ashamed of. I continue with relationships that enrich my life and I let go of relationships that drain my life. It’s that simple!

  • There’s a lot of truth to the saying that “birds of the feather flock together”…

  • I guess I count myself one of the lucky ones here. We had all couple friends, very good friends for over 21 yrs. When X did his thing – well, I’m not sure what those friends would have done, but he was so ashamed to show his face around town, he dumped them all when he dumped me. And, those folks were shocked, thinking he was also their good friend. I guess he told them! So, he didn’t have a chance to get his narrative out and I did right away. Anyway, he hasn’t returned to town and not called one of those ‘good’ friends of his. So, I guess they’re ALL MINE now!

    • Oh man. I was replying to a kibble-hunter, but their comment has just vanished. Please ignore. Where did their comment go?

  • You got to love the Switzerland friends. I had a husband and wife who we were great friends with, I am even God Mother to their son. When Idiot up and left to be with the blonde, I got a call from the wife. Her words were “Isn’t is to great to see Idiot so happy and Skank is such a wonderful person. They really are the perfect couple”. Yeah you certainly have got that right. Both Cheaters with absolutely no integrity. I deleted and blocked her from my life.

    • Aliens…JABT! They flippin GOTTA BE! Who the hell says that kind of crap to someone they supposedly call friend???!!!! …crap…we’re gonna need light sabers…I just knew it!

  • “I am going to go have sex with somebody besides you.” There – how hard is that? If a cheater would just take the time to utter a simple phrase so much pain could be avoided.

    “I am going to join the military.” “I am going to leave the country.” “We’re pregnant” “I have cancer.” “I am going to punch you in the face.” See, it’s not like cheaters don’t have previous experience saying life-altering difficult things. They just don’t care. They want cake. They want to see us suffer. The want to sucker-punch us.

    If MatchGirl had told me she wanted to bang someone else, she wouldn’t be able to use the rotting corpse of our failed marriage to fertilize her brand-new sparkly life. She needs me as a villain in her stories. She has to have a plausible escape story so she can appear sparkly to our friends and her family. There was never a chance she would do the right thing after cheating on me. She had been planning this for some time.

    This post was heart-rending. So sorry for all the chump’s losses. If the cheater had taken the time to say something -anything. We’d all have a lot more friends and family today.

  • Britchump from another Brit Chump, you really do find out who your friends are.

    It hurts at first – why aren’t they all telling the cheater off? – but then you find out (this bit takes time) that there is a really beautiful world out there, full of lovely people who are just waiting to get discovered. They will treat you properly, not lie, meet you half way. It doesn’t have to be this complicated.

    I now look back and see just how murky my life was, being ignored and not having any reciprocation, just how chaotic my spouse really is, how his childhood wounds means he can never be anyone’s true other half, and it just gets better and more simple. Promise.

  • I know a chump who requested from all their mutual friends to stay friends with both of them (her and the cheater) as things are already ‘tough enough’. Like I read in the comments of a previous post, seems like they are all enablers, as the couple is now back together! None of those friends have told the cheater off, or ended the friendship, no everyone stayed civil, supported both of them, etc. etc. craaaaazy… I must add that the cheater is still cheating with the AP but that doesn’t get talked about. Everyone is just praying for the couple to get back together.

  • There is a saying I read somewhere that comes to mind in such a situation, which goes (and I might be paraphrasing) ” Difficult times make you discover friends hidden among enemies and enemies hidden among friends”

    Like CL said, use this as a natural culling. You will see who really cares about you, as a person, and who doesn’t. You might not have chosen the horrible trauma of infidelity to be the litmus test, but now that its presented to you, make good use of the opportunity.

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