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Dear Chump Lady, He wants the OW so he can “live a little”

cakemanDear Chump Lady

I’m going to admit to you something that I can barely admit to myself: I thought I had a unicorn but I am starting to think that it is maybe a goat with a cheap plastic horn taped to its forehead.

Two years ago I found out my charismatic and brilliant husband of 5 years was having an affair. OK, I had suspected for a while and even asked him about it but he denied it and said I had nothing to worry about. My husband, “Mike” is a political blogger and spends ALL his waking hours updating his blog, so this had already started to be a bit of an issue in our marriage but he told me that this was his future livelihood — he said that a major news company would buy the blog for millions one day — and then we could retire.

He met his OW via the blog but she lived in a different country so when I first suspected I thought it was an emotional affair (EA), I saw a message she wrote him on Skype (which he had open and used constantly every evening when I was sitting right near him, he was talking to her) saying she wished she could wake up beside him. I freaked out but he said she’d sent it him by mistake, it was meant for her boyfriend. So D-Day happened AFTER he brought her to our country, and rented a house for them both — I found the letter from the rental company, he was planning to leave me after he moved her in there. She is 15 years younger than him, we are in our 50s.

He sent me a letter saying that OW was the love of his life and he hoped one day I would meet someone who I would love this way too and that he had never experienced love and passion like this and that OW was his soulmate. I was crushed. It came out that OW hadn’t known he was married, he had only mentioned his divorce from his 1st wife (I am his 2nd wife, yes he broke up with his first after she found some love letters he sent to some woman much younger than him). I was devastated. He moved out that night, we agreed that I would buy him out of our home and he bought a love nest for him and OW.

They lived together for 9 months and his mom told me that they were trying for a baby, well that clearly didn’t happen, because he threw the silly cow out after they had been arguing over the amount of time he spent blogging. I got this from his teenage kids who spent one night a week with them and one night with me, the rest with their birth mom (who hates “Mike”). “Mike” came running back to me in tears saying that he loved me all along and it was a mistake with her and he had been in a “fog.”

So I let Mike back, I will admit that I was really happy, he said that I had won, during the 9 months I pick me danced like crazy, bent over backward to praise him, look after his kids whenever he wanted… even did some shopping for him one time. My friends thought I am mad.

We went to see a counsellor who said that I had to take some of the blame because we had let the relationship go stale and I had stopped trying to be sexy etc.

Anyway Mike was very attentive at first, then gradually he is back being with his nose in his blog all day and in the evenings, I have banned Skype so he can’t chat to other women that way, and I imposed a curfew after which he can’t blog anymore each evening, but it is like before, he is physically there but his mind is on the blog (or somewhere). I know he is brilliant and needs to do the blog and that one day maybe it will “hit gold” as he puts it… but it’s lonely here.

He said that he had gone “cold turkey” on the OW, and was no contact but recently and what prompted this letter I found (OK so sue me I snooped) some correspondence just after she moved out where he said he wanted to stay in touch with her because he “had to be a good husband and a good dad, but he wanted to live a little too.” She replied that if he was “back with his wife then he could not be in touch with her” as it was cruel and he was a liar and there was some ranting about how he had told her the marriage was dead, so why did he lie about that? He also mentions her on his blog every so often which he says is just business. I don’t think they are in touch, but it looks like he tried to be.

So is this just the long hard slog of reconciliation? He says he loves me. But even though I know he is a special person and maybe I should cut him some slack and keep trying, I feel uncomfortable sometimes.


Dear Carole,

You’re a living example of why no one should ever “win” the pick-me dance.

This is what you won — a serial cheater, an entitled freeloader who you have to police, and who has the attention span of a gnat. #winning

What are the chances this guy is faithful? About as likely as the odds he will sell his blog and “make millions.”

Uh, Carole — bitchslap yourself. You bought him out of your house, help raise his kids, play second fiddle to his fantasy blog there, accept his disrespect, and take him back with ZERO consequences — how exactly do you propose to cut him more slack?

It sounds like he does whatever he wants, and you go along with the preposterous belief that he is Brilliant. You could asphyxiate yourself with the amount of hopium you’re huffing. This guy is a LOSER.

When he says “I love you,” in narc-speak that’s “You’re of use to me!”

The real question Carole, is why are you putting up with this shit? Why have you made your needs so, so nonexistent? Why do you think you need this creep? Why are you accepting the notion that he was in a “fog” and is not an average-issue entitled fuckwit?

Oh, and speaking of fuckwits, fire your therapist. Yeah, he cheated because you aren’t sexy enough? If she wonders why you fired her, tell her she wasn’t sexy enough.

Carole, this shit stops when YOU SAY IT STOPS. You’re not in reconciliation. You never were. This guy isn’t remorseful, there have been zero consequences to his appalling behavior, and he is STILL pining for his OW — mentioning her publicly, leaving the door open for reconnection. All of this is incredibly disrespectful to you — and you are TAKING IT.

Stop taking it. Choose the rewarding “long, hard slog” of a new life. Don’t worry about taking care of Mike. The major news companies with their millions know how to find him.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • “You’re a living example of why no one should ever “win” the pick-me dance.

    This is what you won — a serial cheater, an entitled freeloader who you have to police, and who has the attention span of a gnat. #winning”

    Dear Carole ^^^^^ THIS^^^^^ that is it in a nutshell, thankfully you’ve come to the right place for the painful truth. Most of us have been there. CL tells it like it is, she won’t sugar coat it or give you bad advice. Tell “Mike” to kick rocks and get yourself a cheater free life, you deserve it, we all do.

    Love yourself and get a good lawyer 😉

    • Carole – NCSteve is so right. I got the same “I just want to be happy” and “we never had sex” and “you didn’t really love me” narcspeakbullshit. AND as the wonderful chump nation can tell you, they had me bitch slap myself, hit me over the head with a reality 2×4, cajoled and understood, and I FINALLY, after nearly 8 months, have managed to get a fucking grip on the “trust that he sucks” concept. No contact. No contact. No contact. Let it be your mantra – it finally is mine and mightiness is creeping in.

      • Chumptastic, were we married to the same guy? I heard all that, ” she makes me happy” crap and ” we never had sex” BS also! Gosh, amazing how they are all alike! Once he got dumped by me and then his Schmoopie dumped him, he had to admit it was all a lie! His fantasy world came to an EPIC implosion!

        • My personal fave is “Our marriage was already over” which was so weird because I never got that unique signifying indication that it was over…ya know like a divorce! It hurt my feelings the first time he said and then I got immune after I heard a 100 more times in marriage counseling. Now that we’re divorced I just have to laugh!

          • I got the same “marriage was over” tripe from my cheating STBXW. The ironic thing is that now that I filed for divorce, when she gets pissed off that I’m doing whatever she expected me to do (usually to her benefit and my detriment), I get to tell her “too bad, the marriage is now, actually, over!” 😉

        • Roberta – I’m still waiting on schmoopie to dump him. I believe it will happen – he’s lied to her about being a successful business owner. She doesn’t know yet that I paid for everything to keep that business running – I of course didn’t know how drawn to “successful ” business men married women were… jokes on me there. It’s damned amazing how similar a refrain we all sing. Second verse, same as the first.

          • Same verse same as the first, a little bit louder and a little bit worse. 😉

    • “#winning”

      Brilliant!!! – that says so much about these disordered freaks and the therapists who also believe they are #winning #and #betrayedchumpsnotsexyenough

      Hey all you disordered, abusive, selfish cheaters: And until you accept that fact, good luck on your next relationship.

    • Carole, I was married to “Mike” too. I was so blinded by his brilliance that I sucked it up & more. Get out now before your 5 years turn into 25 and you are a shell of your former self. Mike will continue to erode your self-esteem. You will spend YOUR precious time policing his every move. What a waste. Focus on what you want (not Mike’s dreams) and go no contact. That’s the only way out. Once you’re away from his “brilliance” you’ll see the fucktard for what he is. I too was the 2nd wife. I thought I was different. Stop the pick me dance because you didn’t win. Mike is the booby prize. Save yourself now.

  • Oh Carole! Please keep visiting Chump Lady. I know our words will be hard to hear at first, but I promise you soon you will see that WE have YOUR best interests at heart! Get away from this Grade A delusional asswipe and start putting yourself first!!

    • Yes! Keep reading Chump Lady until you really and truly believe that you deserve more. Until then, trust the wisdom of Chump Nation.

  • Absolutely chump lady. My stbxh had an affair then begged to stay. He did and then ramped up financial verbal emotional mental physical and sexual abuse until the big discard 5 months ago to move in with another new supply. He wouldn’t even work last year so not only can I now not retire since he blew half of our retirement savings on false pretenses (“investment” in our company-a whole other story), he doesn’t have to give me any spousal support. That is my reward for wreckconciling!
    Put your financial ducks in a row and trust that he is truthful when he shows that he sucks (ad chump lady would say), get rid of the bag of trash!!

  • Oh and also his comment when he dumped me” I just want to be happy and have fun!!” Fucktard!

    • Asswipe said he only wanted to surround himself with happy people no people with problems or issues. What is he? 5?

        • Ugh is right. He wants spontanaity happy people fun fun fun when he does nothing to make that stuff happen everyone is supposed to make him happy because he knows hes a miserable unhappy fucked up thinking bastard inside. And he hates himself for not being more normal and hasnt a clue thats dealing with him brings everyone down. If he had everything he wanted he still wouldnt be happy nothing is ever good enough and hes always searching for new. Funny how he seemed to be happily married for years and enjoyed the life now he hates his life was ruined by family and responsibilities. And hes gone right back to another family life except she pays all the bills. But he needs noone! Big fatbellied toothless balding dickless whiny little bitch asshole. I know theres lots of good guys in the world many chumped like me i wish i had found one of them instead of asswipe who appreciates nothing. Oh the evil both men and women do may they all rot and feel nothing but extreme pain for the rest of their lives!

        • Mine wanted “new sexual experiences” but not with me. No, he already had those experiences because he gave me a STD which didn’t manifest until after the divorce. I guess by having a vasectomy he thought (wrongly) he could stick it in anywhere without consequences.

      • Hope he’s got a season pass to Disney World.

        A wife of a friend abandoned him recently saying the same thing, that she’s happy being single and having fun with her friends. Mind you her friends are all in their 20’s and she’s coming up on 40. They had been separated for 2 months and she dropped the bomb on him last weekend. Pretty sure she’ll regret it when her “friends” all get boyfriends and husbands.

      • Kar Marie,

        My now ex-boyfriend, friend of 30 years, and fellow chump, a bit like my STBX, told me (after a whole year of dating) that he was overwhelmed with my family’s problems, (most of which were present at the beginning of our dating relationship, so no surprise, and not caused by my family) and wants to run away from me, never to date me again but see me as a ‘friend’ after things ‘cool down.’ Yeah. I realize that, with several young relatives dying, a chronic injury that has kept me from sleeping for much of three years, and multiple legal and financial problems due to a divorce started by a hostile mentally ill husband, I may not be the chirpiest person that has ever lived. However, I still talk about the good in the world, don’t believe that my lot in life is the worst, and have done my darnedest to make my ex-boyfriend happy and comfortable because I loved him and trusted him more than any man I have ever known. I apologized for unintentionally burdening him. I told him that several of the problems were resolving and promised to reduce the burden on him by talking about my family’s challenges less often (and talking to a counselor more often). He told me that something was missing from our relationship but couldn’t (or wouldn’t identify it), I was ‘available’ and ‘convenient’ when we started dating, and that when he said he loved me (the many times he did over the last year), he meant that he loved me the way he loved my family, in a brotherly way. (Odd statement as my father doesn’t sleep with him.) A few days after dumping me, he is in hot pursuit of sparkly younger women.

        • He’s an arsehole, RSW. Easy enough to say that you dodged a bullet, but it hurts, I know. Hugs.

          • Thanks, Tempest. I am trying to accept that neither my boyfriend nor I was ready for a ‘successful’ relationship– he was not emotionally willing to commit to me, and I was not ‘logistically’ ready for a relationship (a lot of pressure that provoked me to lean on him for emotional support). Wish that I could do everything over and get the relationship ‘right’ this time.

            • Consider it practice. Can’t run a marathon unless you do a few 5-mile runs first.

        • RSW, so sorry you found out your friend isn’t what you thought he was. Jackass had been a friend of mine for over 30 years and I lived out pretty much the same story, only with a good chumping. At least your xBF told you before he started chasing after young sparkly women. I’m thinking it’s likely that your picker needs a tune-up. Hang in there. There will be Meh.

          • Hi LAJ,
            Thanks for writing. My picker needs a tune-up. I have never known a good relationship, even after a half-decade of trying to form and nurture one. My next quest is to figure out how to fix my picker.

        • Seriously, thank him for not wasting any more of your precious time. Then, never speak to him again. What a colossal jerk. Kudos to him for finally being honest with you that he just doesn’t feel for you what he should, major demerits for thinking the honest thing was to tell you that you were just convenient. That’s just cruel, like you telling a guy you had sex with him because you needed him around, but actually don’t find him attractive in any way, and that he is a terrible lover.

          I pray you now receive the gift of someone who actually appreciates you, and isn’t so shallow that your problems stress him out. Someone who wants to be your hero so he can make you smile (even if the heroics are nothing more than a well-timed massage or dinner when you’re too tired to deal with it). Someone who is your soft place to fall, and who understands reciprocity. Just decide that you deserve that and aren’t going to waste any more time and emotion on someone incapable of providing it.

          When I am finally free of my husband, some guy out there is going to recognize the blessings I bring to his life, and I am going to make sure I properly appreciate everything wonderful he brings to mine. No more spackling or settling for second-best because I am so understanding and believe that he can be better in the future, or that he just doesn’t understand how selfish he’s being. Promise yourself the same.

          • Hi TIG,
            I am upset that my boyfriend was insensitive and selfish. However, I need to take some responsibility for the relationship not working out although I would have done anything to make it work out. I ignored the signs that he was ‘just not that into me’ and not interested in committing to me. I guess that I felt that because I was separated (not yet divorced) I couldn’t ‘lay claim’ to him and I had to accept a ‘no expectations from RockStarWife’ arrangement from boyfriend. I should have just stopped the train and said, ‘I want to get off; something doesn’t seem quite right.’ Instead of trying to ‘win’ someone’s affection, I should have t ried to just go about my business and watched for consistent, very clear signs that my boyfriend wanted to invest in and commit to me–even if I have known him in a way for decades. I need to stop subconsciously setting my ‘selling price’ so low. The odd thing is my now ex-boyfriend seems to despise me, the (imperfect (worried and sad about her family) but loving) woman who bent over backwards for him, more than his abusive, adulterous ex-wife.

            • He dumps you but he’s mad at you? I guess he feels you were wasting his time with your neediness, when he could have been with someone awesome. (sarcasm)

              Good riddance to that almost relationship. You learned what not to do in the future. Wait until you’re truly free to look for someone else, then you won’t feel you have to accept second-best.

              Don’t take on so much blame. It sounds like he was using you so he wouldn’t be alone and unloved, and then dumped you when he decided you were too needy. Again, good riddance.

              Sorry if the tone of this is harsh. I am telling myself while I’m telling you, and I’m trying to keep from being chumpy and not valuing myself enough.

              • TIG,
                I think that you summarized my situation extremely well. Good luck to you!

  • This whole letter made me so sad. This guy isn’t brilliant, he’s an idiot. Leave.

  • I remember my ex telling mutual friends he “loves his wife and children”…yet Co tinted to chase after his whore and plot to destroy me. LOVE….no thanks.

  • Carol… What u have is a parasite… U are the host. Parasite ” an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host’s expense.” U feed his needs thats all. Get yourself a can of Raid, fogger, flea collar and prescription for metronidazole.
    You do not have mutual symbiosis… You have a mother fucking leech. Use salt.

    • “You have a mother fucking leech. Use salt.”

      Charlie Allnut: “One thing in the world I hate: leeches. Filthy little devils.” ~ African Queen

    • That’s an instant classic, Clip: “Get yourself a can of Raid, fogger, flea collar and prescription for metronidazole. You do not have mutual symbiosis… You have a mother fucking leech. Use salt.”

    • +1…. You want brilliant? Come to chump lady. Full of brilliant people who keep it in their pants.

    • “Yeah, he cheated because you aren’t sexy enough? If she wonders why you fired her, tell her she wasn’t sexy enough.”

      Love it.

      Girding my loins for really pulling the plug, getting away from ho hub regardless of if he sucks my money and my mind and my credibility away it’s so much more important to stop him from sucking my soul. All of this is so important to hear over and over. I know it’s all been said. But so have the love bombs. Louder, longer, and with intimacy which is baloney but really nice baloney.

      • Creativerational–love bombs = poetic BS

        Please tell me your latitude/longitude; I’m coming to kidnap you. This has gone on long enough ; ).

        • Count me in on the kidnapping team!

          Carol- he’s NOT brilliant. Has a lazy, selfish, entitled pig who has managed to suck you back in.

          You bought him out of the house? Great, so its now YOUR house, throw his sorry was out and get on with creating the life you want for yourself, free of Sucky McSuckerson.

        • Now the rest of my office thinks I’m crazy, that got a huge guffaw… Like Donald Duck but louder.

          And an “oh tempest… Marry me” thought.

          It has gone on long enough. You’re right. March 18th is looking like my expiration date, all the stars are aligning that it’s super time for change: another girls weekend (both gals know what’s happening and want to take me out for some snuggles) bonus from work, blue shampoo runs out (new colour not blonde time!)…

          Fuck it. I guess I’ll have to take my chances on having to pay for everything. It will be ok. I’ve worked two jobs before. They’ll totally hire me as a fry girl for the McDonalds night shift. I guess it’s that or REALLY give up my dignity and stay right?

          Fuck that noise. I’m not a lunatic.

          There. I set a date. It’s here on the inter web. That’s like law and stuff.

          • LOL @ ‘There. I set a date. It’s here on the inter web. That’s like law and stuff’. 😀

            Good luck to you creativerational – you know it makes sense! 🙂 xxx

          • creativerational,

            Wish we here at Chump Nation had an “underground railroad” so you could secret away immediately.

            You said it: “March 18.” We are all rooting for you.

        • I’m in on the rescue. I wish someone would’ve kidnapped, and slapped some chump-sense into me back in 2012. It’s agonizing reading these women’s stories and wondering how it all turned out, paying to they got the confidence to leave.

    • Yes, he’s special alright. In the same way Typhoid Mary was special and just as noxious and injurious to health.

  • Speaking as someone whose experience was almost exactly the same, cut him off and run! Mine came home for 18 months – long enough to run up some debts and play mind games with me and then left for the OW anyway. The only plus side – he wasn’t smart enough to get his own attorney.

  • No way to say this nicely……..he is as nutty as a fruitcake. He lives in a virtual world where nothing is real except the shit in his head. He has been shopping overseas for your replacement because the women who know him know him, if you get what I mean. Are you having fun yet? Is your first waking thought about his nuttiness? Are you ever happy? This man sailed off into woo woo land a long time ago. You can’t fix him.

  • I do not doubt there maybe a few unicorns. But those few still need to move on and use what they have learned on the next person! I can not see how the current chump they screwed around on could ever fully trust them again. The damage has been done. Leave us alone and be someone else’s unicorn!

  • Just rewatched Sliding Doors. The cheating male lead that is being supported in his writing career says at one point to a mate, “I’m a novelist. I’m never going to finish the book.” And then there’s this gem of a scene on how to walk away from the pick me dance :

    • Sliding doors is such a brilliant film!! anyone who hasn’t seen it must watch it. It shows her life running in parallel with another life, one where she doesn’t know her lazy boyfriend is cheating on her and one where she leaves him and she meets a great guy. Watching this film alone should be enough to convince anyone to leave a cheater, lazy, lowlife scumbag.

    • So ironic. I forgot about the movie having a cheating boyfriend!! I saw the movie a long long time ago and always remembered how I loved it. I forgot about the cheating!!! I need to watch it tonight. My cheater just contacted me last night asking to reconcile!! I’m all flustered now.

    • As someone who writes professionally, this character and real people like him make me so angry .

      There are two types of writers in this world.

      “writers” – Sarcastic air quotes intended. People like this character, who build their sacrosanct writing office that no one else can enter and need the newest computer and printer and writing toys and need to take constant research trips. And they couldn’t possibly WORK during this crucial period in their “career” because they have to focus on their MUSE. Their non-writing partner can do mundane things like WORK and pay bills and take care of the kids because they weren’t blessed with the creative spirit. But somehow, they just never buckle down and finish the damn book. And somehow, their failure to meet their goal is someone else’s fault – the partner for not being supportive enough, the kids make too much noise for them to concentrate, the publishing industry doesn’t recognize their genius. Boohoo. The world has lost a great literary voice.

      And then there are the real deal writers. People who know what it’s like to work a full-time job, take care of their kids and partner and then write from the kids’ bedtime until well past midnight because that’s what it takes to take care of their family and fulfill their creative urge. They know what it’s like to work full-time even after their first, second, third book comes out, because there are very few Cinderella first-time huge success authors out there, the publishing industry moves very slowly and the checks move even slower. And sometimes, the kids appreciate having health insurance. They know what it’s like to be rejected, over and over again, and keep pushing. They put their ass in the chair and put words on paper, because that’s what it takes to be a writer without the sarcastic air quotes.

      I’ve seen way too many “writers” take advantage of their partners, basically doing nothing, and then flipping out on said partner for even asking about the progress on the book. And honestly, a blog? Unless LW’s husband has a huge following and some sort of insider access to politicians, VERY few people out there are making a living off of their blogs these days. And even then, I’m going to guess that a lot of revenue comes from off-blog ventures like public speaking engagements and publishing awesome, funny, snarky books (Ahem, LEAVE A CHEATER, GAIN A LIFE).

      Rant over


      Holy shit

      • PucksMuse – this goes for other businesses too. My ex was in construction, and always had to have the “latest” equipment or he couldn’t do the job right, etc., etc., etc. If I marketed for him and got business, he couldn’t keep up. If we got slow it was because I wasn’t marketing enough. He also spent more time playing computer games than actually finishing, and, dare I say it, billing his projects.

      • I know Stephen King isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but he is one of my favorites! His non fiction book “On writing” describes his writing beginnings. He was a teacher by trade and would come home from teaching and sit in a back room, all cramped with his knees up to his nose and he would write every day. It wasn’t until he wrote his novel Carrie that he had his first commercial success. He worked his full time job for many years while waiting for his big break.

        I think he may have stopped teaching after his novel Carrie but he paid his dues. Once he started making some money he converted a room to a writing room and bought a big desk but it took him a while to be comfortable there. I don’t think he wound up using the whole room in the end. He’s one of those real writers you’re talking about

        • Cheaterssuck, I read “On Writing” too and really enjoyed it. And I am NOT a writer, at all.

        • Cheatersuck – I’ve been a fan of Stephen King since 1977, I re-read his books on a regular basis (re-reading Pet Semetary at this moment), despite it not being his own fave ‘The Stand’ is one of my all time favourite reads. I’m not blind to the fact that his endings can be pretty shite (I vaguely remember the ending to Pet Semetary pisses me off – lol – one of the great things about aging and memory-loss is being able to re-read books without remembering much about them :-D) but his characterizations are honestly second to none. I haven’t read ‘On Writing’ but it’s clear from all his forewords that his ‘art’ was forged while also stepping up and providing for his family with ‘real paid work’.

          • My favorite Stephen King quote, “People think that I must be a very strange person. This is not correct. I have the heart of a small boy. It is in a glass jar on my desk.”

            And here’s one cheaters can relate to, “Monsters are real, and ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win.”

            • Ah Tempest – I remember both of those quotes from King – and both of them made me think of ‘The Great I Am’ and cheaters in general. Most definitely the second quote – oh yes, Monsters do exist!

            • Tempest-loved those quotes too! I think Stephen’s monsters and ghosts came in the form of alcoholism. He was drunk for the entire project Cujo. Says he doesn’t remember writing one word. Kinda sad but he’s overcome that demon.

          • Jayne-Loved the Stand! Loved The Shining and I lost my Stephen King virginity with Salem’s lot. I’ve read so many of his books but I haven’t loved all of them. Could not finish the Talisman no matter how many times I tried so eventually I stopped. The Tommyknockers was a very strange book but I liked that one too. I could go on all day. 😉

        • cheaterssuck, Love “On Writing.” I especially love how he lovingly he talks about his wife. I really like that he refers to his wife and himself as “naturally monogamous.”

          • Agreed uniquelyme! The love story between Stephen and Tabitha is very sweet.

        • On Writing is one of the best non-fiction works on writing out there. (Huge Stephen King fan. THE STAND is my go-to book.) His advice about writing every day, whether you feel like it tonight, having a word count goal, etc., helped me shape my discipline.

      • Kiss his ass. Kiss ass. Kiss your ass. :). Oh – bend over and I’ll show you.

      • Two words for you PucksMuse – ‘Word’ and ‘Truth’ 🙂 Thanks x

    • Just watched Sliding Doors. I coukd have never appreciated that movie until being post chump. Thanks for sharing it here. It is available on Netflix.

  • Carole, please listen to CL! You are a forgiving, responsible,tolerant, generous, loving wife and mother! What is he giving you in exchange? Grief! Betrayal! Humiliation! You will keep on giving and he will keep on taking. That is not marriage. That is certainly not love, on his part. He only loves himself. He does not deserve you.

    • Carole,

      This is what Yo wrote:

      “That is not marriage”

      Believe me when I tell you that there is a HUGE difference between being married and having a MARRIAGE. You are married. You do NOT have a marriage. A marriage is a relationship, and you can NOT have a relationship–ANY relationship–without TRUST!!

      You will never be able to fully trust this loser again.

      Carole, you’re still in your OWN affair “fog”.

      Time to come into the light.

  • Besides, if he ever really makes those millions, he will have a lot of money for an amazing lawyer, so sooner might be better from a sadly practical standpoint. (Still, that story about certainty around selling a blog for millions someday sounds like self-aggrandizing horse shit to me.)

  • I 100% agree with Chumplady that “I love you” in Narc Speak is “You are of use to me”. If this really loved his wife Carole, he wouldn’t be lying to her, blogging all the time, neglecting and rejecting his wife incessantly, cheating on her. He’s supposedly brilliant about politics, but not about marriage, about being a husband or a decent human being for that matter. And also, if his blog were to strike gold, I guaranty you that he’d be out of there in a nanosecond, leaving Carole high and dry. Carole wouldn’t share an ounce of his success, that I’m 99.9% sure of.

  • Your cheater may be brilliant in his own way, like many of our narcissistic cheaters are/were, but he’s delusional and he will not make a fortune by selling his blog someday. These narcissists only have emotions when they want something, and boy can they turn them on in times of need. But when they have their eye on an affair partner, we cease to exist.

    I don’t want a partner in my life who can turn on a dime like that and nor should you. I know it’s hard. These types can be exhilarating, but I’m very sorry to say they won’t amount to anything, nor do they deserve special handling.

    He’s shown you the ultimate disrespect. Get your ducks in a row, build up your strength, and get him out of your life — you will be so much better for it.

  • Bleh. Nothing better than winning a lazy, whoring, lying, cheating middle aged loser. Flush this turd immediately.

  • Absolutely fire that therapist! You are in no way responsible for HIS choices and actions. Do not buy “The Shared Responsibility Lie.”

    Besides, the therapist ought to have caught a serious pattern. He has a character problem. Living long term with the Other Woman says as much. That is A LOT of choices. BAD ones!!!

      • Yes, you nailed it. He says his first wife is “too fat” and he calls her “the hippo”. Actually she’s a great mom and more successful than my husband. He claims he didn’t physically cheat pn his 1st wife but he tried to bring that OW over to the UK on a scholarship, she was Filipina.

        • Chump Nation says that emotionally cheating is just as damaging as physical cheating. It means that he’s not invested in the real relationships with the people who supposedly matter in his life. All those hours spent sexting and texting are hours he stole from the marriage.

          Notice that he’s doing it again.

          If you read Chump Lady’s posts on “Reconciliation and Entitlement” and “Real Remorse v. Genuine Imitation Naugahyde Remorse,” you will see that you need to go by his actions, not his words. Remember that he moved this woman to your country (and where did he get that money from?). He went to live with her to make babies. Then she kicks him out, calling him a liar and a cheat (is this when she found out he was still married?).

          It’s only AFTER she kicks him out that he slinks back, tells you that he’s so sorry. You, being the Chump, take him back. Does he own his cheating? Nope, he helps the therapist blameshift his actions onto you. You weren’t sexy enough.

          The therapist should have called him on this. DId he talk to you about expanding the games between the sheets? No? Then the cheating is on him. If he did talk, and if you weren’t on the same page, then that’s a big area of incompatibility, and he should have filed for a divorce. Again, the cheating is on him.

          Now he’s back doing what he was doing before he went off with Younger Other Woman. Don’t listen to what he says; listen to what he DOES. He is DOING another affair.

          Step away from the Shit Sandwiches. You deserve something much healthier!

        • Also, Carole, be aware that cheaters create their own dictionary. Mine tried to claim she didn’t really commit adultery even though we were married and going to marriage counseling together while she was involved with the Other Man.

          “Physically” might mean something totally different than what the actual dictionary says. And besides–as kb points out–emotional affairs are still cheating and devastating. He is minimizing that…which is also a bad sign as he continues to skirt taking responsibility for his (bad) choices. As long as he fails to take such responsibility, he lacks the capability to change as he has to recognize he had a choice before he can realize he can choose otherwise in the future.

  • What you have “won”, Carole, is a chance to get your ducks in a row.

    1. Get a lawyer.
    2. Get the buyout you gave him back in your bank account.
    3. Get a post-nup should those blogging millions ever come to fruition, you get your slice for the years you’ve endured his incessant brilliance and emotional hijacking of your life… regardless of the divorce I hope you seek.
    4. Then – as TheClip so eloquently said… USE SALT.

    You deserve so much more than him… even your stepchildren see it.

    Put down the duct tape and step away from the goat. You can do it and we are all here to help you.

  • Carole, you are a stop-gap. You are the only reason why he has a warm place to sit indoors. With wi-fi. He already had the temerity to discard you once. Isn’t that enough? How many times is enough? Because all you’re doing is giving him the time and opportunity to do it again.

    • And we are learning more and more that us chumps can serve the role of Stop-Gap for many, many years until the next opportunity comes along.

      In the back of their cheating minds, they are on the look out for the next true love or next bite of kibble or next hook up.

      But don’t let the many, many years convince you that they are being loyal or committed. They just haven’t found the next opportunity yet.

  • Carole–

    You not only have a goat with a cheap plastic horn, your goat looks at younger goats and wants to give that dented horn some exercise.

    If you have not already been checked out for STDs, please talk with your physician and do so. Cheaters are not terribly good with the whole notion of safe sex. You need to know that you’re okay.

    Now for the rest, I am afraid that your cheater is not “special” at all. He is a garden variety narc, whose behavior follows the Cheaters Playbook. Go read up on the signs of NPD. Now look at your goat. Yep.

    Also, read around on this site. If you want to take the plunge, go read the cheaters forums on /reddit. Notice how your cheater’s words closely align with theirs? This is NOT a coincidence.

    You took him back because he SAID he was sorry. Does he ACT sorry? Nope! He’s back in his blog.

    And fire that therapist. The cheating is 100% on the cheater. If he felt you weren’t sexy enough, he should have said something. That’s honest communication. That’s what married people are supposed to have. Being married means being able to tell each other the hard truths. That’s what adults do. If your therapist doesn’t understand that basic fact, then that therapist is crap.

    Get your own therapist, someone who’ll address why you think you deserve to be saddled with a cheater, and help you set boundaries and fix that picker. You are Mighty! Now go find a therapist who’ll help you discover just how mighty you are.

  • The therapist who claimed Carole wasn’t sexy enough just enrages me! Also, this guy isn’t interested in being with Carole. He merely needs a safe place which will allow him to do his blogging. He’s totally using Carole so he can continue blogging, in an environment where he won’t need to worry about anything else than his blogging, it’s all self-serving. And look at what he stated: that he “wants to live a little”. This comment is so indicative. He is saying that his joy comes from being with other women. Why not live a little with your wife Carole? She’s the one supporting you day in day out. This comment to me is all I would need to realize that he wants to be elsewhere than with Carole.

    • Total BS that they cheat because we’re not sexy enough. Christie Brinkley admitted she watched porn with, and was adventurous with, her last cheater husband. I have a drawer full of 20+ pieces of Victoria’s Secret lingerie that I wore every.single.time we were intimate, and still had a serial cheater on my hands.

  • You spend a lot of space telling us what you did to make things better Carole, but I don’t see anything in here about what he did to make things better. Exactly what effort did he put into making reconciliation work? How many sleepless nights did he spend worrying that he wasn’t good enough for you? I’m betting zero. He is using you and you appear happy about it.

    Maybe you don’t know what you want. Trust me, that part can be difficult to define. The good news is you don’t have to know what you want, to know that this life you are living is what you don’t want. That’s all you need to know that this isn’t it, that there is something, even if you can’t define it yet, that is better.

    Follow the advice here and get away from this guy.

  • No kidding! I ought to know! Mine says he “ran” from his OW, but I suspect she dumped his over entitled sick ass for more “fun and romantic” options! Then, of course, he had to face the reality in his mirror. He is just an old, sick broke dude with medical problems and a very bad case of ED (read: “my charming devining rod doesn’t work anymore! Boo hoo!). Needless to say who does he rum back to, only because he believes I’ll just let that “little three year infidelity” and ignoring my NUMEROUS hospitalizations for lung cancer ( while he and Schmoopie consulted his lawyer on my odds of survival and how their image would be damaged! Geesh) He just truly believed I would welcome him with open arms after all the Hell he and his whore put me through and she enjoyed torturing me while he allowed her to not only do these things, but defended her!!! I suggest you let your loser cheater know that number one: YOU are now Number one! Number two: Tell him to get the HELL out! This is a zero sum game! No winners, only losers all of us. We lost, actually robbed by two selfish assholes, a future we believed we had! They lose eventually everything that had any lasting value ( some just don’t know it yet, but it will set into their pea brains at some point!) get your ducks in a row and kick him out for good!

    • Roberta…He and his shmoopie truly suck! Wouldnt it be GREAT if when your cheater showed up on your doorstep, suitcase in hand…a sexy man wearing only a towel came to the door. Your voice in the background “Whos at the door darling?” Your boyfriend “Some poor bum. Lets give him a few bucks.” When your ex asks you who that man was…you tell him “my fiancee…and the best lover ive EVER had.” This is my daydream and I hope it comes true.

    • This is golden Roberta. This >>>>>”We lost, actually robbed by two selfish assholes, a future we believed we had! They lose eventually everything that had any lasting value ( some just don’t know it yet, but it will set into their pea brains at some point!) ” <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< will be the Karma I will see eventually. And if my adult children see it, all the better. Thanks for putting into words the TRUTH.

  • So, does he actually make money off of the blog now? If so, how much?

    It’s a rare blogger who can make even a minimum wage living off of blogging, let alone a decent living wage. The ones who do are usually writers that publish in other capacities. And it’s pretty damn rare for a blog to be bought out for “millions.” He sounds like an idiot to me.

  • Carole, your husband has convinced you that he’s special, he thinks he’s going to hit it big some day. This is exactly the kind of thing my ex convinced me of. He was sparkly and special, he won accolade after accolade where he worked, he was going to hit it big some day.

    They keep telling you that so you will continue to sacrifice your needs for the greater good of their career. All hail the mighty one. You are not so special, so you need to just keep towing the line so you can share big in their success some day.

    You have already invested so much more in this jerk than you have in yourself. I know it’s hard to think about facing your fear of being alone, but what you’re living with is infinitely more painful to you in the long run. You are essentially serving a man who will discard you again.

    Put your efforts into your own life. Start building a supportive network, talk to a lawyer, take steps to become independent. Prepare yourself because he’s going to leave you again. Choose yourself. You can love yourself more than he ever will.

    • It’s interesting to me that so many of us were convinced that our cheater husbands were special. The flip side to that narrative, of course, is that we really aren’t and we were lucky to have them. It’s all an incredible mind fuck. It took me years to process how that narrative served him and was a disservice to me. The verdict is, he’s not special and I wasn’t lucky to be his wife. I’m sure he still thinks he is, and his mother agrees, but he’s not.

      • Yeah, I heard that I’d never find anyone like him to love me. I said, “I think that’s best.”

        • Never a truer word spoken Survivor. I read your post below, God save us all from ‘Love’ like that. x

          • I was told i will never have anyone ever as good in bed as him. Ha! Then ed kicked in. I gave him the dead eyes and told him im a good teacher so i will find better! Bazinga! High heel kick to the groin! He didnt like that one tiny bit. Awwwww.

            • ….. ‘I gave him the dead eyes and told him im a good teacher so i will find better’! Hahahaha – nicely done Kar Marie and (more importantly) absolutely true! Sex with a good honest man who knows what love-making is all about is far, far better than feeling like a blow-up doll to a sex-obsessed narc!

      • I still feel like my ex had a lot of amazing qualities and abilities. There are things I miss about him, but I don’t miss being cheated on and lied to. I don’t miss trying to connect with someone who wasn’t capable of intimacy, who valued his accomplishments more than the people who loved him.

        • Lyn, my cheater ex had a lot of good qualities, at least on the surface, He was charming, brilliant, accomplished, nationally recognized for his achievements. But he was a bastard underneath. And a lot of those accomplishments were accomplished at my expense. Once I was no longer supporting that venture, it went downhill fast. The Fucktard lost his job, lost his federal grants, lost his reputation, and became a pariah instead of a God in his chosen field. He lost the student bride I was replaced with. His addictions became stronger, and he became seriously and eventually terminally ill. And no one was left to fetch and carry for his sorry ass. So he died a slow and miserable death, decades earlier than one would expect.

          Do I miss him? HELL NO. I think it is a blessing when they misbehave so totally that you are vaccinated against them for life. I miss those years of my life he wasted, and the money he stole from me, but I don’t miss him.

        • Lyn – ‘The Great I Am’ has star-quality potential, and he talks a good talk (about himself, rather like Carole’s Blogtastic mega-star) but truth is none of that means shit if they don’t give and receive love. Love is the whole raison d’etre for us all – without it NO ONE EVER had a good life (and I don’t just mean romantic love – but love for and from our fellows. Once they reveal ‘love’ is merely a tool they use to manipulate they show they haven’t a clue what love is and what it’s meant to be).

      • Carol, my ex told others he just didn’t love me. Discussed it with exmil, I told her the truth, she gasped, and said” I don’t blame you for throwing him out….he deserved it! ” That’s coming from her about her “Golden Child.” It was nice to be validated. The truth will set you free! Toss his butt out, tell him to figure his f-upped life on his own, the party is over!!!!

        • Same thing happened my x-MIL! I thought she’d protect her Golden Baby, the mama’s boy, but she was disgusted with him. Her and I have a good relationship since, and thank God for that. I was expecting the opposite from her, that *I* was the bad guy all along…nice surprise though. I believe he hurt a lot f his family cuz, they all kinda liked me, yanno?

    • The “someday it will all be worth it” is what kept me stuck for way longer than it should have. STBX sociopath-narc has a business. I bought into the narrative that it was “our” business… though of course no matter how much I helped or cared or supported, I didn’t believe in him enough. I don’t share his PASSION for his business and I don’t care if he succeeds. But she does… of course she does (see how much she cares when I empty out the checking account asswipe).

      Eventually I noticed that he’s not actually a good business guy. Like he works at it, but he’s not good about the mundane basics, like filing the taxes and doing the P&L, and so on and so forth. He would often pay things late and have to pay a fee and shrug it off. He would set his mind that Item X was going to be the next BIG THING and order a bunch of them, then complain about how “stupid” EVERYONE was because they didn’t realize the brilliance of the BIG THING. He constantly complained about having to deal with customer service issues. He was constantly on the make for some sort of product that was high margin and no work… so he was constantly switching gears and there was no real planning or focus. I could go on. And like I said, if I wasn’t immediately on board with the BIG THING… pointing out that it was fine but I couldn’t imagine what the market for such a thing might be… well I just want him to fail and I don’t care about his company, the most important thing in the world. He has sold inventory at a loss and now he has started up another product line, but of course there is shenanigans and a need to buy some fancy thing to make it successful and shady-as-fuck stuff going on. This is not a successful business strategy. My accountant and my lawyer have both advised me to not file another income tax return with this person ever and to consider filing for innocent spouse status. That’s the level of shenanigans we are seeing.

      But I hung in there because I had so many sunk costs. I believed that I had suffered for so long and I at least needed to enjoy the fruits of this effort. I at least needed to be comfortable in retirement. (Meanwhile he hasn’t saved a dollar for retirement since 2012 because he will just sell his business). But he’s just not good at it, and he’s not going to sell it for $1,000,000 and he’s just going to keep flailing and complaining that people don’t see his awesomeness. Meh – I will take my half and be done with it.

      • CAGal – oh yes, take your half and be done with it. If professionals can see it and you, on a personal level, can see it – IT is how IT IS. I recognise a lot of what you are saying about blaming everyone else in the world for not seeing and enabling his masterplan – that’s going to be the story of his life. Get what can be salvaged and get away before that ship sinks!

      • CAGal, mine was always going to hit it big with the horses. Poured lots of money into them but I never saw a lot of money coming out. I had to laugh when I read that he blamed you by saying you didn’t share his PASSION for his business. My ex told me I didn’t share his passion for horses. That I was just out there helping him muck stalls for him, not because I loved horses (like OW did).

  • Asswipe and i played the gt back together game for about three months all the while he was mooning and mourning over whore juice. He came back on false pretences and i like an asshole believed it. Thats when i fully realized i was done. That motherfucker walked out on me when i needed him the most. Support and understanding not in his dna. Not for me his kids family nothing. Whore juice gets that some because its still new but hes already reverting back to his ways and fuck everyone who doesnt like it. Yep thats a match made in heaven. I gave up long ago but i still smart and still have a great deal of emotional pain. Hes dragging his ass buying the house judge gave him six months. Four to go and he is the biggest procrastinator on the planet. The depression is really wearing on me. But i have to gently like to a two year old encourage him to keep it going. It turns my stomache he turns my stomache. I never did one fucking thing to hurt him ever in thirty years and the fucker acts like everything is no big deal. Why he is deliberately dragging this out when he got what he wanted. A bottom feeding clingy whore with money and wont let me move on while he has. She can change his diapers later on and deal with the angry bastard who is fastly becoming a cripple and diving ever deeper into a child. Im too nice. When i found out that night i should have thrown him and everything he owns out in the yard including his business shit and filed the next day but no i was trying to be nice. In my new life i will learn to do for me and heal myself. Never done that before. If dating and another male happens it happens if if doesnt it doesnt. Ive a long way to go inside and i dont see that happening anytime soon if ever. I dont see myself ever trusting like that again. His life is forever changed for what hes done. Our daughter doesnt want to live anywhere close to him because of how he is he doesnt see it. When i drive out of this property for the last time i will be victorious. Asswipe thinks we are gonna stay best friends. Ha!!! If he was hed let me get on with my life. When i go thats the last of contact with him let him think what he wants too. Hes the whores problem now. Dont do like me just divorce his ass and run.

    • Kara marie, you are in terrible pain and we all get that here at CN. You stated “in my new life I will learn to do for me and heal myself. Never done that before”. How about your new life starts right now. I know it is easier said than done but you are free to be you now. You can do it and you will make it. Trust me, I had to be dragged kicking and screaming away from my old life because it was my life and it was all I knew. You are fortunate in that you still have your children in your life because I would give anything for that but it is too late for me now. We Chumps understand the pain you are in and I hope that in due course it eases for you. The sad part of all of this is that we Chumps were all going to be the ones to look after our cheaters as we both aged and they took that privilege away from us and gave it to someone who won’t care if they end up at the rubbish dump. Our ex spouses/partners made their choices, we didn’t. We are just the recipients of those choices. I hope you find peace sooner rather than later. (((HUGS TO YOU))).

      • Sorry, Kar Marie for spelling your name incorrectly. Auto correct drives me crazy. Oh wait, I am crazy, so I am told !! 🙂

      • Thanks maree. I cant really start it ti i move. The asswipe isolated me from all friends and family. I have noone here noone. He moved us so many times kids out of state family out of state. th him and Friends out of state and hours away. Its been rough. Ive been out of work for a year and a half. I just have to wait it out a little longer my daughter is coming to live with me and the boy the same and worse than asswipe is going to live with him and his whore. Haha that should be fun. Gonna try to make a real man out of him. Heehee! The boy is impossible to live with if one is a girl. Not living with me and asswipe big daddy is now nervous cause the boy might ruin is new life told me i should take him cause he needs to have his new life unincumbered with problems. Too bad so sad. Should have stepped up when he was younger. But i should have the grief. No way jose. The boy is on him. And the biy is pissed what he did to me. Couldnt happen to a nicer couple of cheaters. Me and my girl will be hours away. I have jump started to a point i no longer react to him and interact with him in any way but his business is here ergo he purchases the house. But i ignore him mostly and deal with it. If i wasnt so isolated i live way way out in the boonies it wouldnt be so bad. Hugs to you.

  • I’m trying to figure out if Cheaterpants here even has a job. Does this blog pay anything? Carole, are you supporting this “sad, sad wanker”? (to piggyback off the film clip above).

    So Carole, you are the marriage police now. He’s not allowed to use Skype. But unless you are with him 24/7, he’s still in contact with the OW because he’s still talking about her in the blog. Odds are that he’s ignoring the Skype ban like he ignores his wedding vows.

    What happened to the money from the love nest he bought? Why isn’t he living there? Oh, wait. You take care of his kids. And keep the house. And probably pay the bills, since you could afford to buy him out.

    Once you’re done reading, make a couple of phone calls and find both an attorney who is good at divorces with infidelity and a therapist who isn’t an idiot. You are not looking for a marriage counselor. You need what I have: a therapist who will help you learn to value yourself as something more than a gas pump for other people to get fueled up. You’re in the right place here. Now trust the instinct that allows you to see that there are no unicorns, that you know the truth (even though you “can hardly admit it” to yourself), and that your real D-Day was the day you found the first message between them. He lies. And lies. So don’t listen to his words. Look at what he does. And nothing has changed except that he couldn’t be a partner to the OW either so he ran back to you–because you let him. Here’s a great life rule: if you kick someone out, don’t take them back unless you see years of documentable, and actual, change.

  • Full out description of a Chump. Unless you love you FIRST you do not allow for a potential spouse to. You attract what you think of yourself. At least she is reaching out, she is actually in the first very early stages of her brain knowing she is being Chumped… now.. we just gotta get that heart to follow some logic.

  • Keep your shoes in good shape, Carol, because you are going to be dancing for the rest of this relationship.

  • I havent bothered with a counselor yet since i have to see him so often. I will fobd a good one who will help me. I know best thing for me to do is get completely away from him. From him I get the

    We will still be good friends.
    I will come and see you.
    Cant imagine not having you in my life somehow.
    If i wont talk to him its really gonna fuck him up.
    He has to meet anyone i date to evaluate the guy see if hes good enough.
    If i ever need him he will be johnny on the spot.

    Is he fucking kidding me? What the hell is wrong with him??????

    House sale house sale cant wait.

    I repeat run and never look back. My kids are grown and they understand my wishes. They can have whatever relationship they want with bastard dad. Do not include me.

    • Kar Marie,

      He is not fucking kidding you. He is grooming you to be his permanent Plan B. What is wrong with him? He’s an arrogant, entitled fuckwit who wants to have his cake and eat it too. The correct answer is no.

      • Correct you are survivor. No no and fuck no! My daughter became aware when he was trying to convince her to convince me to move close to him so he can check up on me and keep a eye on both of us. Mom he still wants to control you and me! And she wants me far away from him and no contact. About five hours from here should be about right.

        • Five hours away should do it. Those disordered jerks don’t want to give anything up. To them, it’s like getting a new refrigerator and putting the old one in the garage to keep their beer cold.

          • Ha! That’s great, Survivor. And Kar Marie, you are right, move FAR away! He wants to approve your dates? Sounds like something my X would say, as in, I love you and I own your ass forever! ????? They cheat on us, put us down for years, but they are still wanting to be in charge of our lives.
            You and your daughter both sound strong and savvy, keep it up and good luck on selling the house!

            • Another reason to move away: Even if you are no contact, Cluster B cheaters WILL come back around looking for that dependable supply when their kibble jar goes dry, as it inevitably does. Even years from now. Distance is power.

              When I received a love letter years down the road (it’s impossible to completely disappear if you hold a license), I did not respond. I just thought to myself: “You always were the only one for me.” Really? Dude, I can count.

              • Survivor, omg…who are these people. Mine said, I miss things, you are a wonderful woman, I’m just not ready to come home, YET. YET??????? who even invited you back?????? Narc POS!!!! (He must have dementia and forgot I *THREW* his ass out!!!)

            • Yes it feels exactly like he still want to maintaim control over me not gonna happen. House sells bye bye to him forever let whore juice deal with the fallout! Me and my girl we is gonna rock.

              • Rock on! What’s in the rear view mirror does not matter. Your eyes are going to be on your own road, and the scenery will amaze you.

    • Hiya Kar marie-

      NO CONTACT NO CONTACT. I’m sure you already know this but chump to chump I just wanted to give you a little bit of positive reinforcement:

      We will still be good friends. -THE FUCK WE WILL!!
      I will come and see you. – OH HELL NO!!
      Cant imagine not having you in my life somehow. WHAT? I CANT HEAR YOU FUCKFACE.
      If i wont talk to him its really gonna fuck him up. -EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THE FUCK THATS MY PROBLEM?
      He has to meet anyone i date to evaluate the guy see if hes good enough. COOL INTRODUCE YOUR NEW 6’7′ 310 LBS LINEBACKER NEWBIE.
      If i ever need him he will be johnny on the spot. I THINK YOU WOULD FIND MORE USE WITH A STEAMING SHIT SPLATTERED TURD ON THE SIDEWALK

      Is he fucking kidding me? YES HE IS KIDDING. What the hell is wrong with him?????? HE WAS BORN OF A JACKAL

      Obviously you wont tell him these things as you are NO CONTACT. I just was hoping to bring you a little levity to help ease your pain. Great big hug for you Kar marie.

      • SureChumpedAlot,

        Perfect mental retorts. But you are right, no contact speaks louder. No dialog means no manipulation. Plus, it drives control freaks ape shit crazy.

        • 3rd party for sure. No contact starts the healing. I do like Kar Marie’s feistiness.

      • Thanks surechumped i spit my coffee reading your comments to his comments! Will feel great when i tell him!

  • Online identity as performance art. In this day and age the number of idiots out there who now have the ability to concoct an entire internet persona that bears no resemblance to their actual selves is astounding. On his blog he’s the president, CEO and editor- a powerful and formidable force to be reckoned with. At home he can’t get it up and smells like roasted ass.
    One guy i came across made himself out to be a once revered rock star from another age on the internet- turns out he can’t hold a job, support his household or deal with the demise of a dream that never really was.
    Carole, run fast from this fool. Perhaps you’ll one day be honored with a blog post written especially for you..

    • Ugh No, so very, very true! My Ex and Schmoopie “met” on Facebook and I warned him that they “fell in love” with fake personas! But nooo…..he was convinced that she was a damsel in distress being oppressed for 29 years of marriage to a meany man! He just had to save her and let her unbelievable smartness, sweetness and all around unbelievable good qualities shine on his wonderful good qualities that of course he convinced himself and Schmoopie, I was oppressing! But unfortunately, they cannot keep the “act” up once they shack up together. The true loser shines through on both of them and it’s usually a race to see who can run away the quickest. It’s actually quite satisfying knowing I just let my Ex have exactly who he thought he “loved” and watch it fall apart in record time! His so-called “true love” flew out the window in about three to four months after he moved in with her. You should hear what he tells people about her now. She’s just a two-bit manipulating whore to him. I’m sure she has some less than glowing comments to make about him too! Anyways, not my problem, but good for entertainment if you like the trashy, gossipy stuff!

    • It’s not just the online identity as narcissists can pick out vulnerable victims in a crowded room.
      Yet Carole’s brilliant narc said he dumped the cow. Wasn’t she the one he was going to have a child with? I’m thinking SHE dumped him.

  • Can I just ask, why is a cheater’s idea of “living a little” banging whores??? You are right, that is living “a little”. Ughhhh. A little pathetic, a little disgusting, a lot desperate.

    • Anita, short answer and sad to say…. YES! Banging “strange” is there idea of living a little! Their almighty pursuit of true happiness center around their genitalia! You know, like two year olds who play with themselves in the bath tub and giggle! That’s these fucktards!

    • Anita you are spot on!! They are pathetic and disgusting!! I’m waiting on my STBX to realize what he has lost… He hasn’t figured out yet but when he does I will be enjoying our kids and my cheater free life!

  • What do we learn from this paragraph? “They lived together for 9 months and his mom told me that they were trying for a baby, well that clearly didn’t happen, because he threw the silly cow out after they had been arguing over the amount of time he spent blogging. I got this from his teenage kids who spent one night a week with them and one night with me, the rest with their birth mom (who hates “Mike”). “Mike” came running back to me in tears saying that he loved me all along and it was a mistake with her and he had been in a ‘fog.'”

    We already know that this guy cheated on Wife #1 who hates him.
    He leaves Carole for the Silly Cow OW.
    His kids spent as much time with Carol as they do with him. That speaks volumes about his parenting.
    He brings the “love of his life” to this country, buys a house to be their love new, and then (according to what he tells Carole, he throws the OW out because they argue about his blogging.

    So Carole, what kind of guy kicks a woman out after she has travelled to another country and they have “tried for a baby”? This person might indeed be a “silly cow,” falling for the pitch of a man who seemed eager to start a life with her but can’t moderate his so-called “blogging” in order to sustain any sort of relationship. How does a man go from “soul mate” to kicking out a woman who has left everything for him? That’s a full-blown narcissist move, in my view. And you took this guy back? Just because the “silly cow” lost the pick-me dance? My guess is the blogging is just a lot of cover for trolling for kibbles. He still has this OW on the hook; they’re in contact. And my guess is that she’s not the only one. He’s a lifelong cheater.

    • LaJ – I was going to say pretty much the same thing to Carole. Here is a man with previous (first wife and how that panned out) and current (OW charmed into putting in her all, only to be treated with the same disrespect and essentially abandoned). Carole, how is the OW any more of a ‘stupid cow’ than you are for taking him back? You said she didn’t know about you – so in many ways she knew even less about who he actually is than you do. I don’t want to call you a ‘stupid cow’ because I was chumped by a narc too – I do know how skilled they are at their manipulations – but YOU DO KNOW who he is and honestly, his self-declared ‘special-ness’ won’t save you from his preferred M.O. : Idealize, devalue, discard. In one letter you’ve told us of 3 women he’s done this with and you are now setting yourself up for a re-run of the horror you must have gone through the first time he left you. On which; how on earth can you be happy with a man who can tell you he’s found the love of his life elsewhere and that he’s never felt love like it? In telling you that he told you the love you’d shared with him (and what got you married to him) had little to no value to him. How can you want him back after that?

      The good news is your home is your own and you know you can make it through his discard (you already did it once). The bad news is you are going to have to suffer the pain of this relationship breaking down again – but, hurrah – this time you’ll do it knowing exactly who he is and what he is capable of and you will take control.

      You are the special one – not him; Mr Delusional there.

      Good luck to you xxx

      • Oh, well done, Jayne. That’s exactly the point. She’s one in a series, and then she got in line again for another chumping.

    • Argh they were “trying for a baby”.

      First of all, anyone else hate that phrase? I hate it with a passion. Sounds like a crooked fairground game. You ‘try’ for the baby but, ah bad luck, you end up with the great big oversized fuzzy lizard instead. One that’s so big you have to carry it around on your back all day like it’s having backdoor sex with you as you’re walking around, and then it barely fits in your car so you have to slam its head in the hatchback door.

      Secondly, a man who’s married to someone else is deliberately “trying for a baby” with some rando he met online and, what, his mother thinks it’s sweet? Because there’s something about “trying for a baby” (*retch*) that is supposed to sugar-coat the nasty situation and legitimize his cheating into something really wonderful and life-affirming? Because baby?

      Thirdly, anyone else see the similarities between how he “tries for a baby” and the way he “tries for a marriage”? Get a willing participant, fool them into thinking they’re The One, and then he can get out his wick and dip away. When he’s done, ah bad luck, no baby for you, no marriage for you or you. Just the great big oversized lizard.

      • Plus, I’m betting that the OW left him, wasn’t kicked out at all! He would never dump her unless he already had the replacement lined up, or had already guaranteed he could come back to his Plan B. This is classic narc sparkling; they never admit they were dumped, it’s always them the one who dumps somebody else. She came over, discovered what he’s actually like, and dumped his ass. He keeps trying to sparkle her back – while wreckonciling w/Carole ….. Classic, classic, classic, not ‘special’ at all. He’s just following the narc handbook.

  • Carole-

    My heart-felt sympathy to you. You should not have to endure this abuse and debauchery. Your loyalty, love and selfless acts are noted.

    Mrs. Chump Lady has a one-of-a-kind talent of framing a picture as it actually is. She is an absolute angel (with a 2×4) – so please absorb what she has told you. There is no one more fair and wiser than her.

    I also wanted to do everything possible to salvage my marriage after DDay. I was conflicted with cognitive dissonance. Worst thing ever. I chose to believe my serial cheating wife – that she would never cheat again – even against my own beliefs. Unfortunately as you can see I labeled her for what she is – a serial cheater. I did the dance just as you are doing.

    The fact is Carole, your husbands mask fell off. You are now seeing him for what he always was… an entitled ,selfish, narc that doesn’t have the ability to have empathy for his loving wife (and kids). You have to ask yourself “why would I settle for that?” If you really want to know what your husband will do in the future, just look at his past. What more needs to be said?.

    Carole please know that you are sitting in the drivers seat right now. Slam on the damn brakes – open the passenger door – grab your 2×4 – and tell your husband to get the fuck out! Now you can begin your drive into the sunset.

  • Carole, if you keep rolling the dice you will certainly lose whatever you may have won. People who are addicted to gambling eventually lose their shirts.

    The Gambler Fallacy – “The ball’s hit black four times in a row, so it’s got to hit red next!”

    The Sunk Cost Fallacy – “I’ve already spent 400 dollars on this machine and I haven’t won once – I can’t let all that money go to waste!”

    Betting Systems – “This system I found guarantees that I’ll win at roulette/baccarat/[insert game of chance here]! I can’t lose!”

    Casinos don’t grow because people win money. Sociopaths don’t get their kibbles because people win with them. Get out now. The calls are coming from inside the house!

    Hope this rings a bell for you.

    • Agree, and Unicorn Investments give a particularly low return. As the Financial advice goes- ‘The value of your investments can go down as well as up.’

      • Disclaimer, please do you own due diligence before investing in a unicorn.

  • “When he says “I love you,” in narc-speak that’s “You’re of use to me!”” That is really at the center of our chumpiness isn’t it? When our cheaters say they love us, our chumpy minds project what we mean by love, not what they mean by love.

    Carole – I hope you will take CL + CN’s comments to heart, consider the cost of staying married to this lying cheating coward to your own quality of life and self-esteem.

    Find yourself a good therapist, preferably one with trauma experience and narc abuse experience.

    And please please please, do protect yourself by setting up a new money system where you each contribute to shared expenses and keep your own money as separate from his as possible. Get all of this in writing and go have it checked out by an attorney.

  • THIS: “When he says “I love you,” in narc-speak that’s “You’re of use to me!””

    Thank you, CL. I got hung up for so long because he LUUUVED me, I was the love of his life, I was his soulmate. I talked about this a bit in yesterday’s comments. He told me how much he loved me after I discovered his other women, after he dumped me, when he came back, when he dumped me again. Even after I handed him divorce papers he told me he loved me and he’d never love anyone as much.

    I was absolutely mystified. In the early days, I couldn’t believe it. If he loved me so much, why didn’t he throw everything he had into saving the relationship? Like I did! To me, love implies commitment and responsibility. I had no idea what love meant to him, although clearly it meant something very different. I guess that’s what it is — narc-speak for I was useful to him. Or maybe, “You are a phenomenal source of kibbles. I’ll never find a source of kibbles as plentiful and tasty as yours.” Until the kibbles from his sex-ad whores aren’t enough anymore and he finds another chump to suck the life out of.

    • Yes BetterDays, I had my head wrecked by the cognitive dissonance of ‘I love you, you’re my soulmate, come closer while I give you another emotional beating’. Even now, coming on 3 years since we finally split (yep, I did 3 years of wreckonciliation too) I’m still connecting the dots and recognising his abuse for what it was.

  • “But even though I know he is a special person and maybe I should cut him some slack ”

    Cut him some slack if it makes you feel good (doesn’t sound like he cuts YOU much slack, though, and you’re the one who was wronged here), but get over thinking that he’s a “very special person,” unless you define very special as a cheating, lying, immature and selfish bag of shit. Oh, and the part about his blog is going to “make millions”? Seriously, that is exactly the kind of thing my ex always says about his various insane schemes to become rich/famous, and believe me, the fame has yet to materialize.

    Sorry to be harsh, but I’m assuming you are the financially stable one in the marriage, the one actually keeping the lights on and food on the table. That’s the only reason Mr Blogger is back….. he wants you to support his sorry ass while he works on his “blog” (probably just surfing for porn or affair partners the moment your back is turned) and continues to try to win back his OW, and almost certainly, chats with other OW that you just don’t know about yet.

    Your husband is just using you. I can tell you what his plan is…. he’s going to stick around and pretend to be a devoted husband for as long as you are financially supporting him and making his life easy, but inside, he absolutely plans on dumping you for some new piece of ass the moment his blog “sells for millions.” Which is never going to happen, of course, but in his narcissistic fantasyland, it’s inevitable because he’s just that good.

    The only problem I foresee is that if your income is much higher than his, he’s going to soak you for alimony. Get a good attorney before saying a word to him about divorce, then toss him to the curb.

    • Oh Carole – GIO’s right about her ex’s self-declared specialness and even madder ‘get famous quick’ schemes. GIO – are you going to tell her about the dancing Yeti, or should we? 😉 x

    • Good advice! And document or collect evidence of his infidelity for your lawyer. Make sure the judge knows that HE left the family home, not you, and HE abandoned his children when he ran off to his mistress. It made a difference in my bros divorce. He was awarded primary custody and the family home since she left them all to live with her boyfriend.

  • Carole, no one deserves this. Time to find yourself a good lawyer, get a bow and arrow and go unicorn hunting.

    Cheaters who’ve got cake never want to leave because delicious cake. Why would they? They have maid service, sex on tap from us and/or anyone else, free babysitting, a surrogate parent to fix and handle all their fuckups and mistakes, a chef, laundry taken care of and in some cases, even income they don’t have to earn but certainly can spend. Hell, mine still pouts because he doesn’t get invited to dinner or birth day parties since the great bait and switch of D-Day.

    If they want the alternative so badly they refuse to let go of it despite everything it will cost, then let them have it. Have all of it. The insecurity, the shitty cooking and slovenly living situation, the partner who obviously has no problem cheating on anyone–even them–and the wonderful new life where they can have all the “love”, “fun” and “excitement” they want.

    Slam the door on that part of your life and start taking care of yourself. Get what’s owed you financially, give yourself a lot of time to heal emotionally and learn to live happy and free. I firmly believe in the end, we’ll just see who’s having fun and understanding what love truly is after all. And if I’d stayed with my ex, the thought of being on my death bed thinking of even more years I’d wasted when I could have loved myself more was just too much to bear. Better a broken heart now with a chance to eventually heal than one that atrophies and dies after endless neglect.

  • Let’s also all entertain the possibility that just because someone is brilliant or smart doesn’t mean you have to put up with his bullshit.

    MLK was both a civil rights leaders and a cheater. And no, that doesn’t mean he was entitled to a wife that would put up with it because he was doing so much for other people.

    Seriously, you do not need to put up with his crap. You deserve a relationship with reciprocity and mutual respect, not someone who takes you for granted and expects you to keep yielding because he is a fucking special snowflake.

    • Absolutely! While many narcs never reach their potential, because they’re so damned lazy about the boring parts of accomplishing things, and so hard to get along with, many ARE extra bright, beautiful or talented, and some are all three! Many accomplish important things, and we should absolutely support and admire their work, and pay for it too when that’s appropriate.

      But we have to keep them OUT of our personal lives.

      Pretty simple!

  • Dear Carole,
    I am so sorry you are going through this. My STBX is just like yours. He was spending all his time on the computer or his phone, not on our marriage. He withdrew affection/sex from me because he was getting off on his correspondence from overseas scam artists, and sending money and dick pics to them. I only found out when I discovered his poorly written love letter to one of them.

    Carole, this is where I went wrong. I, like pretty much every chump here, am kind and nice, so even though the marriage is over, he is still in the house in the other bedroom. He offered to leave when I found the letter, I didn’t kick him out because I didn’t know about all the other stuff. There is always other stuff.

    Carole, you are sexy, I am sexy. You didn’t cause him to cheat, he chose to treat you with disrespect. Real life relationships are hard, they take effort. My STBX gets off on his overseas scam artists calling him King, I kid you not, I have read the correspondence. All the skyping? Yes, happened to me too, all that time and effort that could have gone into your marriage he was spending on other people who were feeding him kibbles.

    Cheaters are lazy Carole, they don’t want to work on their happiness, so they blame you. Everyone is responsible for their own happiness Carole. My husband told me he wasn’t happy a few years back, I suggested counselling and he wouldn’t go – lazy. He wants me to pay half the loan we took out, fine, I asked him for the bank details yesterday, he still hasn’t given them to me – lazy. We separated back on the 11th January, he is looking for.a place to rent near the beach, he has a rental property that has an awful tenant in the process of being evicted, but he doesn’t want to live where the house is, fully paid off, he wants the beach – entitled. I have had a couple of friends when I told them about the separation tell me they thought he was jealous of my happiness – narcissist (funny how we are always happy for them, but they can’t be happy for us).

    Carole, come here often, know you are not alone, change the locks when you are ready, move on with your life. You are mighty and this community is here for you. You are not alone.

    • “Cheaters are lazy Carole, they don’t want to work on their happiness, so they blame you.”

      And we get right to the heart of the issue right there.

      Not that we need yet another example of this, but in my experience, that laziness is something that must underpin the lack-of-character in 99% of cheaters. I’m dealing with exactly this with my cheating STBXW, who said she wanted a divorce yet did nothing until I had to file, who is trying to paint the secret debt she acquired during our marriage as somehow being my fault, and for whom it took ELEVEN MONTHS to produce an **incomplete** set of updated financial statements (three of which already had, because they were joint). Lazy to the core.

      Run, Carole.

      • It’s something a bit different than plain laziness, I think; it’s entitlement. I don’t have to lift a finger to do …….. BECAUSE someone else should do it for me. I don’t have to think about potential consequences to my behaviour, BECAUSE other people should bend over backward to make sure there aren’t any consequences for me (and who gives a shit about the consequences for others?).

        • I legitimately don’t get the letter writer being all like “but he is brilliant so I should cut him some slack” as if brilliant people are entitled to treat people like crap. As someone said already, if you want to know a bunch of brilliant people who keep it in their pants visit Chump Nation.

        • Entitled laziness, or lazy entitlement, perhaps? 🙂

          To me, they are slightly different shades of the same hue. Either way, they’re losers.

  • After I found out about my Ex’s grand attempt to bag himself a whore, I calmly told him that I would need a full YEAR to decide how I want to proceed with the marriage. I kept him wondering what I’d do… and I kept him at bay the entire time, being kind yet cool and aloof. He remained in the house (supporting us) and I used that entire time to get my ducks in a row.

    Two weeks before the year was up, HE jumped ship, saying “I want a divorce since I do not measure up to your standards” (no truer words ever spoken coming from his pie hole). He paid for the Legal fees and we came to an agreement straight away…all signed and sealed by the Judge. I kept the house and everything in it…and there were ZERO bills left to divide since I used his income to pay them all off. I already knew it was going to end this way…the handwriting was always on the wall given his major character issues.

    No Contact is easy peasy…I prayed for this…and the Ex is the one who is desperately avoiding ME at all cost. This is VERY pleasing to me…you’d be surprised about how you can avoid having to make the slightest bit of contact IF you have no kiddo’s left at home as is the case with us.

    Carol, he is simply buying time at your expense. Make that time work for YOU.

    If true repentance were evident…it would take YEARS to see enough proof of that, and with him having ZERO guarantees about getting a single thing from you in the meantime. His ENTIRE lifestyle would have to permanently change for 7 years minimum for it to be remotely believable….and all without your “prompting” or making any demands.

    My life, my standards.

    • I wish all chumps could give themselves that year. You are mighty for being able to do that while he was still in the house. No way I could have done that. No contact was what saved me. But holding firm to that year to just see who that personal really is and who the Chump wants to be–that’s priceless.

      • Truth be told…I WANTED to go out and file for divorce right away…actually, I had wanted to do that several times in years gone by. But each time, I took a “detour”. I would go to the Lord first and asked Him what He wanted me to do. This last time, He “gave” me the Parable of the Fig Tree in Luke:6. The Lord KNEW that my Ex would bolt and run just before that year was up…and indeed he did. This saved me from having to chop down the tree myself and from dealing with the potentially messy fall out…and it bought me time to get things in order and decide how I wanted the divorce settlement to look like. Soft landing.

        Other truth…I was/am NUMB. Ten years of betrayal on different levels (porn, flirting, financial disasters, heavy drinking, sexual perversion) had me completely numbed by the time the Whore arrived on the scene. It was just another “thing” in the life of his self-deception. If I had not been numb, I surely would have taken out my .38 and wasted him…I have it in me sorry to say. So I am thankful that I WAS numb and did listen to the Lord.

  • Chump Lady said, “Oh, and speaking of fuckwits, fire your therapist. Yeah, he cheated because you aren’t sexy enough? If she wonders why you fired her, tell her she wasn’t sexy enough.”
    Hahahaha…so funny!
    Who was that therapist–Esther Perel?
    Carole, do NOT believe the myth of ‘shared responsibility’!
    (My ex was going to get big money by playing online poker. hahahahaha)

      • With one click of a mouse in the wee hours of a drunken morning, mine lost $40,000 in gold commodity trading. Yep. He hid it from me for over a year until I found it on last years tax returns under “business losses”. A few years earlier, he lost $80,000 buying a business two thousand miles away that went belly up within 4 months…sending us into Bankruptcy. He also lost $50,000 buying a pontoon boat and expensive diving equipment for himself and four other guys “to find gold” in the river…so he could be a hero to family and friends. The only thing he got out of that “wholesome family adventure” was tinnitus when his ear imploded from not taking the time to clear them as he dove down to the bottom of the river. I asked him not to do ALL of these things…but to no avail.

        Now that I am buying him out of the house, he is spending that money which was supposed to be for his kids inheritance on other bright ideas. Meanwhile, I am enjoying living in my home/investment which will appreciate over the years.

        • Oh God Sweetz! My first husband (not a cheater, but….) used to make massively disastrous decisions that impacted our lives. There was NO STOPPING HIM! I used to try to describe it like trying to stop a train running at full pelt towards broken tracks – I could see the train-wreck coming but god, neither me, Lassie nor Skippy the Bush Kangaroo could talk him out of it! I walked away from that marriage when I realised I was getting panic-attacks every time I thought about trying to discuss anything with him. Years of failing to get through made me wonder if I’d lost the ability to string words together. It was an utter nightmare!

          • Well, lucky me Jayne… I guess I got to experience every known marital disaster in one fell swoop. Cheater, financial loser, liar, conniving schemer, porn freak, drunkard, LAZY disrespectful blame shifting gas lighting hustler. Those are his good qualities.

            I actually do feel sorry for him. From. Afar. I have always enjoyed the sound of crickets.

          • Oops…forgot about the $270,000 worth of unsecured credit card debt that HE alone wracked up the first two years after we married…I then filed the Bankruptcy so that I would not be hung with it (I was beginning to see the handwriting on the wall). That move destroyed our credit, which I knew would turn out to be a Blessed relief! He had NO intention to pay off any of this debt. Early on, I made a $5,000 payment to pay one of the bills off thinking he’d be proud of me and instead, he became TOTALLY UNGLUED. I had $100,000 to my name and no debt going into the marriage, and I spent ALL of that pulling him out of his old debts. So he took that kindness as permission to get into even MORE serious debt post haste.

            • Some of the life stories on here are stunning. And, your description of your X is eerily familiar to me! I thought my X was bad, for paying 70,000 over a decade for an old garage he never went to!
              So, we fell into a trap, but at least we learned a lot about ourselves, and we won’t be fooled again. I am proud of you, Sweetz, you made it through a shit-storm, and now you’re free! Great job lining up your ducks, and being so deliberate!

  • Carole, I’m just gonna answer that last question you had, as all the other parts of your letter have been answered brilliantly by my fellow chumps.

    You ask “is this just the long, painful slog of reconciliation…?” As a chump who (ducks head) is actually DOING the long, painful slog of reconciliation, no. Hell, no. What you are dealing with doesn’t even approach the ballpark of reconciliation. What you are dealing with is abuse.

    That much I can answer confidently.

    • Don’t need to duck your head Little Mighty Me. I honestly hope reconciliation continues to work for you, and I’m glad to see you come here to keep it real 🙂 xx

  • “Oh, and speaking of fuckwits, fire your therapist. Yeah, he cheated because you aren’t sexy enough? If she wonders why you fired her, tell her she wasn’t sexy enough.”

    This. Solid Gold! This is hilarious and true. Please do this.

  • I’m so sick of these cheaters who just have to pursue their happiness at the expense of their families. You know what? I’D like to live a little. I would like to have a little fun. Where’s my fun? I would even settle for one day just free from anxiety about the future. Long before D-Day, when the boredom or stress or fatigue or dissatisfaction of my everyday routine would set in — also known as ‘life’ — I would have loved to go off on a wild weekend in Vegas or go drinking and dancing with friends on a Wednesday, or just disappear for awhile and do whatever the hell I wanted. But I didn’t, because I’m a fucking grown up. When my daughter was 5 she had a hissy fit over something and said she wanted to go live at Grandma’s house. She changed her mind when I offered to drive her there. But I was thinking that if anyone gets to run away from home, it’s me! Because life is hard. Like really, really fucking hard. Having a job is hard. Marriage is hard. Parenting is hard. Being the sandwich generation and caring for young children and aging parents is hard. And it drains you. And it can suck. And sometimes you just want to blow up your life. But I never did that because anyone who is not an absolute moron knows that there are just tough times in life. And they pass. And you love your kids more than anything and the joy far outweighs the aggravation. And you have to take the good with the bad and do your best to make your situation better. You think I was never around flirty coworkers? Never hit on by a guy while married? Never attracted to some hot guy? But of course I didn’t act on it because I am an honest ethical person who took wedding vows and meant them, and I’m just smart enough to know that running off with a coworker or screwing the soccer coach would not make my life better.

    And it’s your responsibility to make your life and your marriage better if you are unhappy with it. Like maybe talk to your spouse? Get counseling? Wife is fat? Maybe you watch the kids so she can go to the gym a couple nights a week. Husband is a disgusting doughy slob? Why not suggest a walk every night after dinner? Hold his hand and talk about your day or current events or gossip about the neighbors on your walk. It might bring you closer and shed a few pounds. Fucking do something about your problems and stop thinking some fresh snatch is going to make you happy. They are all chicken shit self-serving rats and as much as I would give anything not to feel this chump pain, I’d STILL rather be me than any one of them.

    • Love this! If I could have had a real, frank conversation with my husband this is exactly what I would have said.

      He told me I was “hard to live with.” Oh yeah? Think being married to you was easy…all those years I spent alone while your job kept you on the road. Birthdays and baseball games and church programs alone with three kids. No invitations to dinner parties because I didn’t have “couple” friends. Not to mention that my mother MY MOTHER brought me and my newborn son home from the hospital on my birthday because you were working.

      Hell yeah, he was “hard to live with.” But I didn’t bail. Because it was part of the package that I thought had more rewards than challenges.

      • Sounds like my life with my now Ex. Always on the road, no set schedule; the life of a railroad wife. My counselor says, be careful in your future dating life “certain careers self-select”.

  • If anyone in the future tells me I’m “the love of his life” or his “soulmate”, I’m going to RUN SO FAST! I can’t tell you how many times I have seen this written on this blog by others chumps (I’ve read all of the archives — I call it “divorce porn.”) No one besides my stbxh ever said that to me. It felt so wonderful and I totally believed it! Who doesn’t want to believe this kind of stuff as it’s so romantic! But it’s all crap!

    • Right there with you! Whoopi Goldberg has a book called, “If someone says ‘you complete me,’ RUN!” Totally my new motto (and a book I desperately want to read).

      • BetterDays, the audiobook is awesome and is read by Whoopi Goldberg. Tons and tons of wisdom. You don’t need to agree to everything she says but mine the insights that speak to you.

    • “If anyone in the future tells me I’m “the love of his life” or his “soulmate”, I’m going to RUN SO FAST!” Oh. Hell. Yes.

  • Oh, Carole, a life where you constantly have to prove your worth to your husband is a life that stinks. And I’m pretty sure you know that. I don’t care how brilliant or charismatic he is. He is nothing but a cheating piece of garbage. Follow in the footsteps of his first wife. Leave and gain a life. Once you’re out, you will be asking yourself, “What the hell was I thinking?”

  • he’s not really “blogging”, just like my ex-wife wasn’t really “working”.

    his promise of millions and an early retirement is textbook gaslighting.

    my ex-wife promised overseas trips. we took none, although she took plenty with her “training partner” (the other man).

    this toxic piece of shit is stealing away your life with your permission. get out of there!

  • I think I must have earned my Chump Lady Advanced Diploma because now whenever I read the “Dear Chump Lady” posts, I can see the crash coming, fold my arms over my forehead in the “Brace! Brace!” position, and then wince upon impact. These cheaters all use the same flight manual. And none of us could see the crash coming until we woke up with a smouldering piece of plastic tray table between our teeth. Thank god I’m wiser now. Hugs, Carole. From one of the CL survivors.

  • Carole,

    Your “counselor” was gaslighting YOU.

    I just went and read-up again on gaslighting. Gaslighting is a well documented marital problem. See:

    In the abstract Gass and Nichols describe gaslighting as such:

    Not only the husbands but also male therapists may contribute to the women’s distress through mislabeling the women’s reactions and through continuation of certain stereotypical attitudes that reflect negatively on the wife whose husband has had an affair.

    Quite enlightening.

    Please dump him, Carole, you deserve better. The pain of leaving is finite. You are choosing everlasting suffering.

    • We should bear in mind that FEMALE counselors can also do this. I experienced it myself during an attempt at (non-cheating related) MC. Believe me, it was infuriating and devastating.

    • Ian, I think this is a very important point about therapists. Thanks.

    • Yes both male and female therapists are guilty of this. One woman — whom I only spoke to on the phone asked me if I had let myself go during the marriage, cause, you know, a lot of women don’t take care of themselves after getting married. WTF?

      • Agreed. Gaslighting therapists are not restricted to one gender.

        I posted this link because I like to cite primary sources. Note that it was published in 1988. It’s not authoritative, and it’s necessarily going to be hamstrung by a lack of modern cultural views on sex, gender, and sexuality. Nevertheless, it was helpful to me to find research-based evidence on “gaslighting.”

  • He said he went cold turkey on the other woman? Doesn’t THAT tell you something. This is why Reconcilliation DOES.NOT.WORK.

  • “I’m going to admit to you something that I can barely admit to myself: I thought I had a unicorn but I am starting to think that it is maybe a goat with a cheap plastic horn taped to its forehead.”

    Congratulations on the scales starting to fall from your eyes, Carole.

    You sound like you and ‘Mike’ don’t have any kids of your own, but that you look after his kids from his first marriage? If this is the case, then there is no real reason to stay, unless you’re very attached to the children.

    I know it’s humiliating to admit that we have made poor choices, and our swans turned out to be geese, but you’re well on the way to realising this, and turning your life around.

    Keep reading Chump Lady. Read the back posts. Read especially about ‘spackling’, which is what you’ve been doing to yourself and other people for way too long.

    And yes, get some therapy for yourself. You have been living your life through this man, his whims, his blog, his ambitions. I often think that women choose to do this because it helps them avoid facing the scary stuff in their own lives and hearts. Now is the time to start on that journey, but thankfully you only have to do it one step at a time.


  • Bepositive, my xh tried to come back home, i didnt let him move in during bs wreckconciliation, he ran back to OW now gf. She 23 now, ge 53 dad and grandpa. Could be her dad. My kids are disgusted.
    So he runs back to owhore. But wait the Karma Train showed up. Yep, the howorker now going to be a mom.
    Graduate from whore to mom.
    Holy shit, runs away from one family to start another.
    Both dishonorable people. Shame on them both.
    My daughter speaks to him but wants no part of the daddy issuec whore turned mom.
    My son wont even bother with him.
    Like Someone wrote on cn, after owhore done changing baby diaper, she can change his.?

    • Jean, my ex is 63 and his tart is 23 with 2 little boys by 2 different blokes and the 4 of them live in SE Asia. Our 2 adult kids have welcomed her and her kids with open arms and pushed me aside. Something is very wrong with my kids way of thinking most definitely.

      • Marie, soldier on. There is nothing wrong with you. Just be you and try not to figure out your kids’ motives on acceptance. It’s going to be hard. I will pray for you.

  • Dear Carole, I really only have two words–pick YOU! I did this song and dance for over ten years on and off. It was sad torture and I can’t believe in hind sight how long it took me to extricate myself from it. And guess what–he wasn’t so brilliant after all. I can see clearly now and I am happy. Let this loser go. Every year you get older and sink more energy into this relationship…there is a happily ever after, but NOT with him. Please please move on! Wishing you love and life and joy!

  • Carole, if you just can’t decide about the sincerity of his apology, I have a suggestion for you…

    Tell your cheater that the price of returning home is that he has to give up his blog completely. He has to shut it down. In fact, I’d tell him that he has to give up internet access entirely except for what is necessary at his job (his REAL job).

    He thinks he’s giving up future millions? Well, that’s the price he pays for fucking around.

    Considering that the blog is how he met the OW, I’d file that under “the least he can do.” That’s consequences, and consequences need to hurt. No self-control around women who show up on the blog? Then no blog, asshole. Besides, at this point, if he wants to build your relationship, he needs to focus on the relationship.

    I make this suggestion not because I think he will actually do it. I just think it is a good litmus test for remorse. If he was really sorry, he would have closed down his blog on his own to show you that he had changed and would not contact that woman again. If he was even a little sorry, he’d do it at your request. But my strong hunch here is that he won’t do it at all. Nope, you will be met with a huge tantrum as he demands to know HOW YOU COULD SAY SUCH A THING.

    And that will be your answer.

  • Carole, me again – I just went back and re-read your post slowly.

    Your husband lied to you initially when you asked about the affair.
    He spent all his waking hours on his blog, and none on you.
    He sat next to you once, but was staring at a screen and talking to another woman, thus ignoring you some more.
    He lied to the OW about you, and pretended you didn’t even exist.
    Then he lied to you about the affair again.
    Then he spent your joint money on importing the OW from another country and paying for her to live with him, without asking you or telling you.
    Then he deserted you – his lawfully married wife of 5 years – for the OW for 9 months, and tried to have a child with her.
    Then he leaped on your offer to buy him out so he can be with the OW.

    It was at this point, Carole, that it would have been good to go no-contact with him and divorce him. There are many people who would have walked away at this point, because no one should have to tolerate such utter disrespect.

    We have already established just from this first series of events that ‘Mike’ is a liar, treats you with disrespect on a daily basis, and is also financially untrustworthy.

    But you decided to take him back, because that way, you ‘won’?

    What exactly did you win again?

  • There’s that word again, “charismatic.”

    I can be charismatic when needed, for brief periods interspersed by ample recovery time.

    But this word had been used repeatedly by chumps (especially women) to describe their cheating spouses.

    It’s like charisma, in and of itself, increases the odds of cheating by 50%.

    Is it just another word for sparkles?

  • My cheater is reconciling with his second ex-wife who he’s been cheating on me with for over a year. She was the homewrecker of his first marriage. We’ve been together almost 10 years, I’ve helped him raise his 4 sons, one from the mistress, who I’ve known since he was 2 and have taught to swim and ride a bike, 3 from his first discarded wife. He and the 2nd wife/ mistress dumped each other when the boy was 18months. I was totally love bombed for the first year and I couldn’t believe my luck!

    The oldest 2 boys tell me I’m the best thing that happened to them and to their dad. He’s painting me as a crazy nasty b*tch. I left my job in the city for him, we went farming, now he and the mistress want big bucks and are taking my farming job away from me as well as my family. He said I was asexual although we had sex a couple of times a week at least. I was down and tired after 6 miscarriages and no empathy from him. He was angry and raging at me over work and home all the time. Still I bent over backwards to make him happy and played good little wife and stepmum who fixes everything.

    It’s all my fault, I “drove him away” and the marriage counselor we saw for 8 month while I was doing the pick me dance didn’t challenge him on his behaviour. I was suicidal after he dumped me, not before!! Chump Lady’s site saved my life with her UBT. This site is awesome. I felt so stupid and lonely. It helps to know there are so many chumps and so many have recovered.

    Clearly I need to look at my issues and why I believed in and held on to a treacherous liar who can never be satisfied. Like you I believed he was brilliant. When I met him he was into local politics, fighting the good fight (actually just picking quarrels with everyone and losing his jobs). He ran for local office, which I financed and helped. In the actual campaign he never held a meeting, never knocked on a door, never tried to engage with any voters. Just a lot of hot air. I still believed in him.

    Don’t make that mistake! He’s not brilliant. He’s gone, the house is yours, you’ve already paid the price and survived. Let him lie in the bed he made for himself, somewhere in the gutter. Please, the worst is over for you because you are already completely independent of him and you’ve seen him crash and burn. The battle is over, now you are your own worst enemy so be very careful. Don’t get sucked into this again. You really need to ask YOURSELF why you even consider reconciling. Yes, you’ve “won”, he picks you and the OW sees through his BS. Seems to me she knows what’s good for her better than you do. You lose that victory unless you now slam the door in his face. Make sure you tell him never to darken your door again. Print CL’s reply poster size and put it somewhere you see it first thing in the morning when you wake up. Worth every cent you’ve spent in counseling x 10. Good luck and don’t waver.

  • Sometimes I read the letters that people write and I wonder out loud – “Is this your first visit to chumplady? Did you not read more than one page here before you decided to write this shit? Do you really think the Pick Me Dance is something to be emulated?” And remember – Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life.
    OK, that might have been a tad bit harsh. But Carole, darling, re-read what you wrote. You will see the light. Read about Naugahyde. Read about how to get this dood out of your house and out of your life. Get yourself tested for STDs. Get a good attorney. Know your worth. Take good care of YOU!

  • Two things, Carole, well three actually:

    1. After you get rid of the trash, don’t pick it back up.
    2. These cluster B disordered types are always “becoming” but never actually achieving
    3. Run

  • Dear lord, there are a lot of BRILLIANTS here. The man runs a friggin’ blog, like thousands upon thousands of other folks in this country. Unless he’s one of the really well known ones, in which case he’d have already pocketed $, then he’s just another guy with a hobby. THE MAN DIDN’T CURE CANCER!

  • BTW on marriage counsellors: ours suggested ex was tired of being made to be a penitent for his affair with his ex from 10 years ago-I wanted boundaries with the OW like don’t see her at all except for your son’s birthday and Christmas Day, otherwise only if I’m there. MC looked at me like I should try harder…I should cross the bridge and look at things from his side!! So fool that I am, I danced and danced and smiled, and cooked and cleaned and laughed. That’s when he started completely ignoring me…and the affair just rolled on and got more and more intense while I danced and danced and looked after his kids and HER kid. He was never challenged on his exploitative behaviour. I’ve even written to the MC now telling her how much he lied through the counselling about his affair and everything he and the OW were plotting during that time. I asked her to be wary that her technique rests on the assumption that people are honestly trying to work on a relationship, not actively sabotaging the counselling. Guess what? No reply.

  • It is so devastating to have a therapist buy into the narcissists crap and make you feel like the lack of ‘sexy fun time’ was somehow to blame for his infantile crappy choices. Actually at least infants make authentic choices. Our couples therapist did the same thing and it was horrible. get a new therapist for yourself and don’t see this other one she has bought into your narcissists narrative.

  • Oh MAN – This gets me… my chumpbait is completely ignoring his job (except the minimum not to lose it entirely, but not enough to actually earn a paycheck) to do YouTube videos – chasing that elusive ‘viral video’ that will have him set for life. He spends at least an hour a day (broken up throughout the day) checking the stats on his videos and telling me about how much each video is making like I should celebrate the almost $200 per year that he is up to now (for the 5-30 hours a week he spends between taking video, editing it, putting it online and promoting it). Woohoo… We can almost pay the electric bill… While I, Chumpette (“He gave up OW years ago… I just found out full details months ago”), take care of everything else (except what his mommy pays for).

  • Why do all cheater say that their affair partner is the love of their lives? Everytime I read it somewhere (including my own cheater said) “I needed to find happiness, because for a while life hasn’t been worth living” “I feel so strongly for her” “I am madly in love with this chic” “She is the love of my life”
    Can they seriously feel that why in a short amount of time?

    • The only way you can feel that way about someone is if you have an inability to have authentic deep connections with people. They don’t see the quality in long term relationships. They only respond to instant kibble, and we all know that is not sustainable. As a friend’s mom once said, a new broom sweeps well.

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