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UBT: You cheated for the excitement!

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cheater_overlapToday’s Universal Bullshit Translator fodder comes from SELF magazine. (Something narcissistically dunderheaded from a publication called SELF? No, you don’t say.) What To Do After Cheating In A Relationship.

So, you cheated. Maybe he was really hot, maybe she was really understanding of your workload, or maybe you were just really, really bored.

I always destroy innocent people when someone understands my workload.

The potential reasons behind cheating are legion, and afterwards, many people are at a complete loss about how to move forward in their primary relationships.

Because they are so entitled as to think they still HAVE a “primary relationship.”

Do you try to keep it a secret? Spill it all with the promise that you’ll never do it again? Or should you completely end the relationship instead? Here, experts explain the various options at hand after you cheat. The good news? An affair isn’t necessarily the harbinger of relationship death. Still, that doesn’t mean figuring out your next step is easy.

Hmmm… How to maintain cake?

First, do a self-assessment.

Before taking any action, think back to why you cheated, Jane Greer, Ph.D., a New York-based relationship expert and author of How Could You Do This to Me? Learning to Trust After Betrayal, tells SELF. There’s the obvious chance that you went outside the relationship because you weren’t getting what you needed sexually, she says. It could also come down to a chronic need to feel the excitement of something new, wanting to feel “alive” again, or merely that some people enjoy the risk of pursuing a so-called forbidden fruit.

It’s so obvious you cheated because you weren’t getting your sexual needs met. Obviously you couldn’t have a conversation! Obviously you couldn’t break up! Obviously you need to Feel More Alive at the expense of making a chump feel like dying. Obviously!

“If the affair is the result of you feeling sexually or emotionally abandoned by your partner, then you may feel a degree of justification,” Gary Brown, Ph.D., a Los Angeles-based psychotherapist, tells SELF, although he notes that “even in very good relationships, you may feel that something is missing.”

It’s other people’s jobs to make you feel whole. If you feel like you’re missing something — fifty bucks, your cell phone charger, a roast beef sandwich — it’s okay to get those needs met by any means necessary! Pistol whip an old lady. She didn’t just hand that sandwich over? You may feel a degree of justification.

Additionally, Brown says it’s not just the “why” of cheating, but the “why now” that matters. “The timing of the cheating may say a great deal about [your] emotional state,” he says. You may not be able to put your finger on why you wanted to roam when you did, but it’s well worth thinking about.

Are you always a vapid narcissist? Or does it just come and go?

Sometimes it’s worth keeping your cheating close to your chest.

Although this view is controversial, it can be best to keep the whole thing to yourself. “Most people don’t tell their partner unless they get caught, and that’s a really personal decision,” says Greer. “You have to consider the nature of the cheating relationship you had.” She suggests deciding whether it will help you recommit to your partner and if you’re prepared to take on the burden of keeping the secret just so you don’t lose this person.

Consider the nature of the cheating relationship before you confess. Was it blow jobs in the parking lot with a co-worker? Keep it to yourself! Was it clandestine hookups with your best friend’s wife? Mums the word!

Keeping secrets is such a Burden. But hey, it keeps cake alive helps you recommit!

Recognize that if you’re acknowledging an otherwise undiscovered affair (especially one that’s ended), you’re creating emotional pain for your partner.

It’s honesty that creates pain. Not the fucking around you’re doing.

Although it may temporarily relieve you of some of the stress associated with keeping a secret, the tradeoff of your partner experiencing possibly permanent emotional damage may not be worth it, says Brown.

Keep being dishonest, it’s what your chump would want! I think you know best. Does that align with your self-interest too? Awesome!

One major caveat: if you put your partner’s health at risk by forgoing condoms or other similar contraceptives, it may be your duty to tell them. And remember that condoms don’t protect against all STIs, so using them with other people doesn’t guarantee that you’re truly keeping your partner safe. But not all cheating goes that far, so it depends on the situation.

It may be your duty. But maybe not. Ask yourself — do you need to feel more alive? Do you have an unmet need for bareback sex with strangers you meet on Craigslist? If your chump wasn’t meeting those needs, hey, what’s some cervical cancer?

If the evidence of an affair is irrefutable, you have to own up to it.

Naughty photos, dirty sexts, love letters over email? All of that is hard evidence. If your partner confronts you about it, trying to deny the truth is straight-up hurtful. “If you’ve been caught in a number of lies, you should really not try to cover it up if it’s clear there’s something going on,” says Greer. Instead, own up to it, and be prepared to apologize repeatedly.

Saying you’re sorry should cover it. If they get uppity, say, “HEY! I SAID I WAS SORRY!”

Yes, it’s definitely going to hurt your partner—that can be especially true if you’ve developed an emotional affair with someone like a colleague or classmate—but lying so you can hold onto them denies their agency in the situation. Also, the clear conscience doesn’t hurt, although that shouldn’t be your biggest concern.

Nah, a clear conscience should never be your biggest concern. Integrity schmegrity.

It may be even better if you can first discuss the situation in front of a neutral party like a therapist, says Brown, although that’s not always an option (unless you’re already regularly in therapy together). “This provides a measure of safety to help both people process the situation,” he says. Even if you confess in a spontaneous moment, scheduling an appointment with a couple’s therapist may help you both work out your feelings.

In either case, your partner may explode emotionally in the initial learning stages, and you’ll have to accept his or her emotions. The only thing that’s unacceptable? Violence of any kind, even in such an emotionally fraught situation.

Their potential for violence is completely unacceptable. Your unilaterally risking their health, mindfucking them, and destroying their trust? Hey! You were BORED.

And sometimes, you need to just end your relationship.

OMG NO! Sometimes cake dies? SOMETIMES? I thought I got to keep my primary relationship so long as I lived with the huge, colossal burden of my guilt? END CAKE?! Never!

The affair may signal that your relationship needs to end, whether you’d consciously like it to or not. Once an affair happens and has been disclosed, it forever changes the nature of your bond with your partner, says Brown. For example, it could cause your partner to be sexually withdrawn, says Greer, and that shouldn’t come as a surprise. “Their trust has been violated,” she adds. And sometimes, that violation of trust is too great of a chasm for a relationship to successfully cross.

Alternatively, even if you don’t tell your partner, cheating can make you realize you’re unhappy in your primary relationship. In that case, you should end it, but there’s not necessarily a reason to divulge your affair if it’s otherwise unknown.

And your happiness is what really matters here. If divulging an affair would kill your happy buzz, why do it?

The majority of affairs end at some point, and the price is quite often the primary relationship. (Although that’s not always the case. Brangelina, anyone?) So, if you’ve got wandering eyes, tread lightly so you can avoid making a hurtful decision. Even though it’s possible for a relationship to rebound after cheating, “recovery to the point of completely letting go isn’t going to happen,” says Brown. Now that’s some food for relationship thought.

Yes, the majority of affairs end at some point. That’s why it’s so important to keep a steady supply of potential fuck buddies. If one “primary” relationship ends (i.e., you get dumped), you can elect another!

Cake never dies. Now that’s some food for relationship thought.

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Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at info@chumplady.com. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • So many PhDs… to blurt out such lame pieces of advice. It’s no wonder that the psychologists I have contacted, who had no PhD, either got no result or damaged me more.

  • The fact that the article quotes so-called experts with Ph.Ds makes me despair for the state of higher education. All those years of fancy book learning and they don’t know right from wrong. But hey, having a piece of paper means you’ll be quoted in an article and people will eat that shit up. If I were a taxpayer supporting their publicly funded education, I’d storm the president’s office with pitchforks, demanding my money back.

    • Reminds me about a line from the movie, King’size Speech. Berty tries to tell Linal that his experts are right that told him smoking is good for him. Linal says that they are stupid. Berty replies that they are knighted. “Then it is official” is Linal’s response to the king.

    • Right. The new ‘moral relativism’ twisted logic, as aided an abetted by those with the most letters after their names. What letters are those? CRAPhil (‘crap hill’): Cheater Rationalism and Argumentation Philosophy.

      “My morality is different from your morality, so as my spouse, you owe it to me to understand and accept my morality for the unique and special snowflake thing that it is. Where our moralities intersect — like, the morality of staying married — we are obliged to follow that code, see? But where my morality doesn’t intersect with yours — like, doing hookers in the back of my car when I tell you I’m working late — you mustn’t interfere with that, you mustn’t judge, you need to accommodate. Because my morality is mine, and mine alone.” Mr Simon Socio-Smarm, CRAPhil.

      • Hope and Gloria, I’m just going to say it but when someone does moral relativism on me like that, I just want to kick them in the balls(or whatever’s appropriate) and say moral relativism this. You don’t like it? But it feels so good to me lol. Don’t interfere with my reality.

  • “If you’ve got wandering eyes, tread lightly…”

    Um no. How about If you’ve got wandering eyes DON’T PROPOSE TO ME AND VOW LIFELONG FIDELITY, ass.

      • Yep. “Wandering eyes” sounds so much more romantic than:

        “If you stick your dick into any hole…”

        “If you’re a cumdumpster…”

    • Exactly GOYSACA – The advice given here is laughable in any situation, but even more when it is cheating post-marriage when kids are involved.

      So glad CL and CN is helping all chump build their immunity against such flying monkey mindfuckery.

  • “Recognize that if you’re acknowledging an otherwise undiscovered affair (especially one that’s ended), you’re creating emotional pain for your partner.”

    The fact that the writer felt they needed to insert this otherwise obvious statement into the article for the reader tells you all you need to know about the intelligence of the target audience. Yeah…..about your affair, there might be some emotional pain for your spouse there.

  • I am dumber for having read this vapid narcissism from SELF.

    Seriously, I’m in shock this blatantly selfish drivel made it to print.

  • In the words of Ray Zalinsky, “You pinpointed the problem. Step two is washing it off.”

    Seriously, I get why a cheater would want to figure out WHY they cheated, if they wanted to prevent falling into the behavior again. But focusing on the WHY instead HOW that action affects their partner, seems to focus the energy on excusing the cheater’s behavior.

  • I think we can apply this level of hollow rationalization to any heinous act. Like Mad Libs for amoral justification!

    So, you murdered someone. Maybe he was really ugly, maybe she was cut you in line at the grocery store, or maybe you were just really, really bored.

    The potential reasons behind murder are legion, and afterwards, many sociopaths are at a complete loss about how to move forward in their daily life. At least after the first offense. It gets easier after that.

    • Ha ha. Just as long as your meeting your needs, and they are dead anyway, no use over complicating the situation by confessing. Why should 2 people suffer after all? Just use this as an opportunity for reflection.

      • Hilarious! Of course, narcissists are not big on self-reflection which just makes their recovery process that much faster! Yay!

        • Dixie – That’s so true. After the final D-Day, the kids and I were destroyed but he was going around saying he was enjoying the hell out of life, happier than he’d ever been, and reveling in his hip new role as Divorced Disneyland Dad. I couldn’t believe it, but lack of self-reflection explains a lot.

          • This is exactly what my ex is doing right now. Did yours ever snap out of it? Or do they change & that’s it?

            • Allison – It’s been 10 months and the cracks in the Disneyland Dad facade are starting to show. The kids tell me they mostly play video games at his place and he’s usually on the computer “working.” But he’s still promoting his super cool image on FB and, I’m sure, reveling in the kibbles.

      • WTF is a “primary relationship”??? By definition, doesn’t that term allow for one or more “secondary” relationships? I guess “only relationship” is too confining in these modern times. Even my dog is not interested in being a primary relationship … he does NOT wish to share my attentions with anyone else nor even other species!! Cats … move along!

          • I may be wrong about this, but I think “secondary” refers to people in close relation but outside the marriage or partner bond, e.g., children. But I could be wrong. Tempest will know, I’m sure.

            • It’s possible there is some clinical-psych lingo here; I’m more familiar with developmental theories (e.g., Brofenbrenner’s micro/meso/exo/macrosystems).

              When I looked it up, two interesting things: Primary/secondary relationships are how polyamorists delineate strengths of relationships (which would seem to fit here, no?).

              Sociologists refer to Primary relationships as those “based on ties of affection and personal loyalty, which involve many different aspects of people’s lives, and endure over long periods of time. They involve a great deal of interaction that focuses on people’s feeling and welfare more than accomplishing specific tasks or goals” E.g., the family [and….AP, possibly]. “Secondary relationships, on the other hand, are organized around fairly narrow ranges of practical interests or goals without which it would not exist…(e.g., waiter-customer relationship).”

              For cheaters, then, their APs could potential count as “primary” relationships. Cheaters suck.

  • Wow, let’s teach people to have a facade of a relationship! Doesn’t matter what’s really going on, as long as it looks good, and feels good to YOU, carry on!
    I would never have married in the first place if someone explained it to me like that!
    I really don’t know what our society is coming to!!!

  • I can’t believe the shit propagated by these “experts.” Relational trauma destroys attachment, which is the key to physical, emotional and psychological health – and the success factor in intimate relationships. For the life of me, I can’t understand why someone who claims to be a relationship expert of any sort would encourage or condone deceit and betrayal (i.e., trauma). A well-known attachment advocate refers to this as “intellectual armor” and indicates that “education often creates intellectual weapons that are used in the service of denial.” Let’s all ride the bandwagon of denial and pretend that no one gets hurt in these acts of betrayal. Or let’s not, and weed these fuckers out of our lives.

      • Gabor Mate. He’s a Canadian physician. Here’s the blog from which I quoted: https://ttfuture.org/blog/michael/how-can-so-many-deny-so-much
        He’s also co-authored a book with Gordon Neufeld (a child developmental psychologist) and has a a heap of Youtube videos as well (The Biology of Loss is interesting). I’m not convinced about his stance on ayahuasca – but I’ve never tried it, so I can’t really judge. 🙂

        • Thanks! Had to look up “ayahuasca,” and thought it might be a good thing to administer to cheaters if it actually causes people who have consume it to “report having spiritual revelations regarding their purpose on earth, the true nature of the universe as well as deep insight into how to be the best person they possibly can.” A cure for being an asshole? Awesome. I myself will pass, having already lived through an alternative universe on D-day.

          • I think the purpose of cheaters is to be organ donors for more worthy people- living donors, as it were. We could harvest organs while they were still alive and discard the rest. They would be familiar with discard – as it is part of their repertoire. I wouldn’t expect to find a heart in there, though.

            • Blessing, you ARE truly a blessing.

              ORGAN DONOR! This is my new go-to explanation if anyone asks why we’re getting divorced.

              My STBX is an organ donor. He’s been donating it all over the place (at a considerable cost).

              Hahahahahahaha. Thank you for this.

              • I didn’t think anyone could use the soft tissue samples, so I didn’t think he qualified or met the criteria. A little pharmaceutical help and financial aide to the recipient, and he was transplanted in whore de jour.

              • The xh husband donated his organ, that in return at 53, his 23 yr old daddy issued ow now girlfriend, reciepient, is having a baby! This is disturbing!

        • ARRGH – ayuhuasca – big trigger for me. Ex, a professor and student fucker, “bonded” with his undegraduate while exploring ayuhuasca and consciousness as part of “mentoring” her. Nothing like doing drugs with your students!!!

  • This article seems focused on how to avoid telling your partner you cheated, unless you get caught. (“If the evidence of an affair is irrefutable, you have to own up to it.”)

    But if the cheater “decides” to end the relationship, they shouldn’t divulge the cheating to their chump. WTF? (“Alternatively, even if you don’t tell your partner, cheating can make you realize you’re unhappy in your primary relationship. In that case, you should end it, but there’s not necessarily a reason to divulge your affair if it’s otherwise unknown.”)

    I wonder if Jane Greer and Gary Brown are real people. If so, maybe they are Esther Perel devotees. Either way, they are morally deprived assholes.

  • satan actually sat, in my presence, and had this very conversation with himself… Asking and answering himself. Truly. He concluded, with himself, that everyone has affairs so what is the big deal. Once he had satisfied himself with his conclusion he turned to me and smiled and asked me what was for breakfast. The whole thing was surreal and mind bending to witness, I thought my heart was gonna burst through my chest and I was certain I was going to die right there…and wanted to. When I didn’t answer him, just stood there with my mouth hanging open trying to breathe he let loose an evil laugh and said it was really no big deal he was just bored.

    Nice.

    • Mine first tried the blame-the-victim, “You should spend less time obsessing about my affair and more time obsessing about why I was unhappy with you at the time.” When that ploy proved, ahem, not very effective at convincing me to forgive him, he switched to the sad sausage, “She looked up at me with adoring eyes when you were no longer doing so” [sad puppy eyes].

      • Oh, man, they are all the same. I got versions of the same thing. The kicker was when he told me, “She made me feel special.”

        • Jeez… I’d forgotten about the “she made me feel special” line. I got that at DDay #1, too. Chumpy me, I spent a lot of time thinking about that comment, evaluating my role in any marital problems, trying to become a better wife, lover, friend. Yes, I thought, I have been pre-occupied with pesky things like caring for a young child, working 2 jobs, coping with some deaths in my family…

          I pick-me-danced for years. No he didn’t deserve it (Hence DDay #2 five years later and immediate “game over” from me.) But you know what? All that dancing made ME a better person, a better parent, and (hopefully) a better partner, lover, and friend.

      • Totally got that same blame shifting line! WHY oh why was I going on about the sex still (while he had lied about 10+ MORE years of online sex…)? Did I not know he was also having large number of emotional affairs too? Those all being, of course, because I was a mean and awful and all that and compared to the young college women I was someone who didn’t care enough about how hard life was for him. I didn’t let him do anything that felt good since he had depression and everything (that wasn’t play/sex) was just so so hard! Poor poor him!

        I was staggered! I asked him to read A book about cheating ..and he was all oh, and what are you going to read about how you treated me poorly (uh, you know, I wasn’t even going into how he sucked ass as a husband in the things I KNEW about…)?! I said nothing SINCE I DID NOT CHEAT. He was then pissed off I wanted an “unequal relationship”. WTF?

        • Grrrrr…my STBX said “Don’t you get it. I HAD AN AFFAIR.” That wasn’t an admission of responsibility. It was a statement that I screwed up and that was the obvious outcome. I will never forget that.

    • Justifiable homicide just popped into my mind when i read your comment. That’s one fucked up individual you were married to!

      • As mine was scrambling to get out of the house with a bag of his clothes, he decided to take all the guns with him. Now why’d he go and do that?

        • Anne…that’s what mine did too. He didn’t take them all but he took the two loaded handguns with him immediately after I discovered his private messages and confronted him. He later said he took them for *my* protection because I was so distraught. Ummm… yeah, sure.

          • Asswipe tried taking the guns too including one in my name but he couldnt find them in plain site. Said he was afraid i would hurt myself. I loaded a pistol first night he left for protection considering he left me in the middle of no where with a 45 min emergency response and no one could hear me scream. I told him id give them back after i move not gonna happen. He bought whore a gun she left it loaded in plain site with little kids around often. It was stolen and no one noticed for a year. Whore juice is real dillegent isnt she. Left a loaded gun in plain site with little kids around. He will get his guns when hell freezes over. I enjoy target and skeet shooting and my fantasy pretend targets.

            • She should not be allowed custody or visitation just by that reason alone. That is beyond negligence and is infuriating to just hear that! These people should not be allowed to breathe much less breed.

          • Apparently they don’t realize that they’re not worth the cost of a bullet or risking new found freedom. But let them think it. Oh yeah, let them think it and sweat.

            • I let the Cheat in for 1 hour. (one!!) He not only took all his guns, but he stole my little (protection) gun as well as all the gold in the house. He said it was ‘for my own good because I was so unstable’. Well, the lawyers sure didn’t like that on either side! haha on him!!

            • He could have lost his job for theft, as well as his CLP and been arrested had I sent the cops after him shortly after he drove away.

      • You will be proud of me ByeBye 😉 The night he growled in my face and broke my little finger at the first knuckle I almost pulled his ear off his head 😉

        …guess what…the next day as he raged at me about how big a bully I WAS showing me his bleeding ear…yeah…no mention of the fact that he had brutalized me forcing me to defend myself. Nope. He.never.touched.me. Not ever.

        Spin doctor…image management. Disordered, violent abuser.

        I am always amazed that people can’t see who he really is…but then, I didn’t see him either for 31 years…

    • Jeep, satan sounds so absolutely nuts, your stories still kinda shock me, didnt think that was possible anymore. Was he ever kinda normal, or able to pretend so, early on? Or did he grow increasingly more insane?

      • junglechump he was like no one I had ever met when I met him…I grew up on a farm and he grew up in ‘the city’…he was always over the top in everything he did. I guess I was mesmerized or stupid or something…definitely very naive. Chumplady calls it ‘sparkly’, I’m guessin that was what he was to this little farm girl.

        He started raging and punchin walls and windows and people about 10 months into the relationship and I put him out of my life. My father is a raging, alcoholic – and now I know – narcissist…so…I wanted no part of that. But satan would never be gone long. Now I know it is called ‘hoovering’ not ‘love’. Knowledge is power and I didn’t have much of either when it came to what I now know I was dealing with. A narcissistic sociopath with a major drinking problem.

        Over the years I probably put him out of my life over ten times and here he would come professing that he would rather be dead than without me. Eight years into it I married him. …by then I was lost to myself pretty much and operated only for his benefit…doing whatever however he wanted it done. We settled into a seemingly ‘peaceful’ life of working and building our little empire – which became quite impressive over the years. …his head swelled right along with our bank accounts and pretty soon he started having trouble being humble. He talked bad about everybody the minute they would leave his presence the shit was on. He would rant for hours over how stupid people are and how they should let him manage their lives for them so they would have great lives like his… He is very self centered and egotistical. Puffed up asshole.

        He was pretty much unbearable. I used to think, ‘Archie Bunker has got nothin on this guy!’ But I stayed and put up with it cause I loved him so much – never knowing it was because I was his well ‘conditioned’ wife appliance…

        Fast forward to five years ago…he kissed me that morning…told me he loved me and would see me after work. He had a little ditty he used to sing, ‘She’s my wife and I think I’m gonna keep ‘er’ … that’s what he was singing when he left… Ten hours later someone that looked like him walked in and just started screaming at me about my infidelity, how I hated everyone, how I wouldn’t leave the house, how I was always crying about my FUCKING mother dying…yeah…I couldn’t stop crying over my mother…but the other stuff??? Projection much????

        He was pretty much always a womanizer…could always convince me to believe him instead of my ‘lyin eyes’…my bad…so, yeah, I guess the older he got and the more he drank the worse he got. Alcohol just ate away all of his filters till he couldn’t pretend ‘normal’ anymore.

        I hope I never see, hear or hear about him for the rest of my life. The soul shattering abuse he put me through…well…if you had told me I would have survived it and found joy in life again – even just a year ago – I wouldn’t have believed you. I would have said, ‘I don’t got this!’

        I got this junglechump 😀 And I truly believe Divine Intervention pushed me kicking and screaming out the door – like ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

          • 😀 thank you Ian.

            I didn’t feel very brave. I had trouble walkin in my cowboy boots cause I was always shaking from anxiety and fear and actually would fall ‘off’ of em. Ugh…went barefoot a lot.

            …everyday at 5 PM the anxiety would increase…took me a while to realize it was because he would be home soon.

            Now 😀 all gone. All of it 😀 I don’t even care when he drives by my new home – which he does all the time – cause I know he is a coward now. I know who he is really now and I am not afraid anymore. Cowardly, evil little boy man.

            And I walk just fine in my bad ass boots now 😀

          • I love you Tempest 😀

            Beau’s surgery is this Friday … 🙁 Vet said it has to come off because it will continue to grow and wrap around his … um … organ. He won’t be able to pee. …sooo…poor guy! I realize now that is why he has become the carpet fish! It must hurt or itch so that shag area rug is perfect! He looks like he’s swimming on it doesn’t he 😉 Goofy guy. Love his heart!

  • “Yes, it’s definitely going to hurt your partner—that can be especially true if you’ve developed an emotional affair with someone like a colleague or classmate—but lying so you can hold onto them denies their agency in the situation.”

    Just wow. Um, lying denies their agency? What about the hundreds of lies that have already been told when you’re a cheater? Does the writer of this garbage read what they write? Just going from this one sentence you’d think the advice would be to admit to the cheating the moment it starts and end the “primary” relationship.

    • And yet chumps have so little agency. This was done unto us without our permission. All we can do is kick the fucktards to the curb and fix our pickers.

  • To the author of this Self article: Suppose your spouse betrays you this way. You are blindsided, traumatized, heartbroken. You “How could you do this to me?” Him ” She was hot. I was bored. And she understood my workload.” You “Oh why didnt you say so? I understand.” Really?Bullshit.

    • This is so amazing…. My h has said so many times I just didnt understand how he tried to reach out to me. He was lost, lonely scared how his life was turning out as he was under so much pressure to take care of me, and our son.

      When I tell him that my world was destroyed, his responses are, “believe me understand, mine has too.” Like its my fault that his affair broke up our relationship! And I am unreassonable cuz I dont want him back as my “primany relationship” anymore. Just doesnt get it… Once a 3 person comes into a marriage, it the toughes road going…

      • If his primary relationship was so primary, then why did he make it secondary by having an affair?

        Of course, this is the question that underlies the entire article. Primary relationships are relationships you need to put first. If you have an affair, your first priority is to the affair and keeping it secret.

        And if you follow the advice of this article, then you continue to do so.

      • My X said the same thing to me Susan, right after I told him what he did to me and our family, said his world fell apart too! WTF, it’s his fault, he’d still be living that way today if I hadn’t caught him!!!!!! My stomach would go into knots when he’d say that. Ugh

        • Doesnt seem to matter to the cheaters or the him/her whores they screw what they do or who they hurt as long as they get what they want for their entitled selves. Screw everyone else but them and theirs. There is a special place in hell for these people. To leave a pregnant woman, your kids, mother whore who left her kids, spouse who is sick, or an older spouse who spent a lifetime going without to help build a business, family, future, retirement and just walk away and abandon them or try to take everything we helped the assholes build and try to give it to the schoompies including kids college funds and call that ok? To trust these fuckers to have your back and expect them to keep their promises! Grrrrrrr! I hate these cheater sympathizers!!!! Fuck them fuck them fuck them!! Asswipe son of a bitch tried to give that whore juice bitch everything he and i worked 30 years for!!! He tried to bully me and then bully my daughter into bullying me to do what he wanted me to do after d day. Both of us dugs in our heels and said no fucking way!!! He wanted to give that bitch my house my cars that i worked for!!! I would have lost everything if i moved into that rental he and his whore wanted me to move into!!!!! Boy that article put a bug up my ass today. Sorry for the ranting. Im done now. Feel better. Love you guys!!!

          • Hey Kar marie – you don’t have to mince words with us. lol. I love your spirit and your rightful anger at all the injustices they leave behind in their wake. I’ve wanted to pound my keys sometimes SO hard that I could pop one off. You were remarkable restrained. and, not one !?!_!_**#*%&^#*. I get carried away sometimes.

        • “HIS” world fell apart “too”???? wtaf. i hate these cheaters and their cheater logic. he DESTROYED the world that could have been. Are you supposed to now feel sorry for him? jeezus. they are such NARCS. I remember one pathetic text I sent to my Ex about 4 months after D-Day and kicking him out and his then instant discard of me for OW, where he moved instantly and wiped me out of his history, introducing her to his family and OUR friends of almost 20 years as my replacement. I texted, lamely, “Don’t you miss our home?” and he texted back, “Of course.” Then two seconds later said he was busy “at work” and had to go. No Fucking Way did he miss our home and our life together. You could have had all of that, buddy. All you had to do was work to actually do something to save it but let’s be honest, that was NEVER your agenda, your agenda was fucking OW and getting away with it while Muse stupidly and blindly paid for your house and food, while you deceived me every fucking day. So don’t feel sorry for them, not for one second. This is just a part of their sob story spin that as Narcs, they must superimpose over every factoid that occurs in their lives. What a sad, sick way to live.

  • Why now?
    Cheating can make you realize your unhappy.

    These two statements are so fucking laughable aren’t they?

  • In these articles, Always there is an out or a palatable rationale to the general public for cheating. Has it always been a birth right unbeknownst to me?
    Must fall under life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness….

  • This kind of advice is part of a larger societal trend toward navel-gazing, existentialist, deconstructionist, moral relativism bullshit. There is no “truth,” just truth from various perspectives. There are always two sides to a story (with the implicit assumption that both sides are equally valid). If it feels good, do it. Carpe Diem. YOLO. Everyone’s logorrhea is worth posting somewhere in the internet stratosphere.

    How about some real standards, instead?

    • Well said, Tempest. This kept me stuck for so long: “There are always two sides to a story (with the implicit assumption that both sides are equally valid).”

      I’d swallowed that societal “truth” whole and so many times it kept me from calling bullshit.

    • Tempest, you are so right. This moral equivalence garbage is just garbage.

      STBX presents (and deludedly believes) himself as a highly principled man.

      I used to feel guilty for failing to live up to his exacting standards. At D-day, for five seconds, I actually bought into his lament that I had betrayed him (his words) years ago because I didn’t have sex with him as much as he “needed’ to which necessitated his descent into the underbelly of deviant sex. He was of course referring to the drop off of sex that happens when working full time and raising a family. Grown up stuff.

      As a result of the Shit Show, I no longer believe what anybody says. I’m Missouri. Show me.

      I worry about spending too much time “untangling the skein” – one thing I know FOR CERTAIN is that STBX hasn’t spent one millisecond worrying about me but (duh!) that’s nothing new – but I’m trying just to notice my thoughts and allow the healing to happen. It’s a longer and more physically uncomfortable process than I expected.

      • Roaring–now I’m picturing your X with a mohawk in black Spanx reading Kahlil Gibran. Highly principled, indeed. priceless!

        • Tempest, hahaha.

          Thanks for reminding me to picture him in his “kinky” gear

          (which, by the way, is how he described that particular picture to me when I saw it on D-day. He said, I want to be kinky.)

          I clearly recall, despite the horror of that day and the early days that followed, feeling sorry for him, as the picture was just SO pathetic. I wanted to hug him and say, “no, no, no,” as if to a toddler.

          Five months on? I have no problem mocking him. I take great pleasure in mocking him. Yay, I’m bitter.

      • Wow – I got a similar narrative as well. How I’d betrayed him and hurt him when grown up life kicked in (full time jobs, family, home) and we no longer had sex 24/7 because we were busy, working, taking care of a small child etc. Add to that secondary infertility and a series of 6 miscarriages over a few years and it’s ALL MY FAULT and he’s been completely betrayed and lied too. WTF????

    • I detest moral relativism. Cheater-douche said, “You can’t deny me my truth.” Truth is not malleable. Truth is truth. I hate what our society is becoming.

      • Muse, me too.
        I am so anxious this week – our house (which he wants; which has been infested with rats since I moved out on D-day five months ago and, unsurprisingly, for which he blames ME because I didn’t move some boxes in the basement last summer; which is our biggest asset) is being appraised on Friday.

        If all goes WELL I’ll have a settlement offer more than twice the amount I offered 42 days (and seven hours and 23 minutes since we COULD HAVE been legally divorced).

        If all goes POORLY, I don’t know…just vague but scary random thoughts about him showing up with some kind of DAMNING evidence that I deserved everything that’s happened because of some OBVIOUS to EVERYONE but, of course, dim me and then a chorus of angels will herald him into the heavens with a bevy of adoring young things drooling over him…

        [I know it’s weird but I think I have a lot of “beauty” issues after seeing the pictures of who he’s ACTUALLY attracted to. Let’s just say it’s about 180 degrees opposite me. I’ve always been the “geeky” one, not the “pretty” one. Not that he’s winning any beauty contests. Except in my imagination. Fucking imagination. Et tu?

        • Roaring, stand your ground. I got my house that I had paid over 95% of the mortgage and other costs for over the sixteen years with asshole. And yes, asshole “left” me for a butt ugly woman that none of our friends can even believe he did that. It was just a target of opportunity for him (an “offer he couldn’t refuse”) but he never expected Muse to stand up to him, and kick his underemployed ass to the curb. Stand your ground. After all those years it takes a lot of self-discipline to treat someone you love(d) as your enemy but believe me, that is what he is now. good luck,

          • Thank you. I’m drinking mucho red wine. I’m nervous. And I started taking magnesium which is making me wired…do you know if this is normal? I’m so ready for the physical symptoms of this experience to be in the rearview mirror…

            • It seems like the rat infestation is symbolic of the cheating. I don’t know about magnesium… I take Vit. D3 which I think helps especially in the winter time. I’m at 2.5 plus years and still strung out 🙁 some of the time. Hang in there and be strong. Hugs!!

  • ACK!

    “It’s honesty that creates pain. Not the fucking around you’re doing.”

    How, the FUCK, is this not obvious to the morons writing these UBT’d articles? It does NOT take a genius to figure out that hurting others, even if indirectly, is morally wrong.

    While the Greer quotes are asinine, I don’t blame Brown, who could have been quoted out of context to suit the writer’s (I use that term VERY loosely here) agenda.

    • Your question of “ how is this not obvious to the morons writing these UBT’d articles” – unfortunately the truth just doesn’t matter to them. It’s all about $$$$$$$$$$ – bullshit sells!

      They usually get some under aged twat to write this rubbish because “Self” knows part of their target audience indulge in being self-centered and shallow – a microwave society type. Perfect name for their mag.

      Not trying to put anyone down if they read “Self”, my Mom used to read it, but I’m sure anyone on this site is intelligent enough to decipher the shit from shinola.

    • Ex didn’t seem to grasp the concept that the cheating “ruined his reputation” by him doing it. Not by me exposing it, like he wanted me to think.

  • Another shit article telling shit people that their shit behavior is ok.

    Because we should all get our advice from the kind of credible elite psychologists,who publish articles alongside tips on how to make your hair shiny and why eating more kale will help you have better orgasms.

  • Who are these people???? Whoever writes such articles surely deserves to be paired with an entitled cheater and let it go on for 23 years and then let’s see what they are saying!!!! God, such asswipes.

  • Haven’t read the UBT yet. Can’t wait. The Self article is horrifying. (And embarrassingly bad writing.)

    Rachel Jacoby Zoldan is the author of the Self piece (of shit).

    Her Twitter is @rjacoby13 and her email (as published on her Twitter) is: rachel.jacoby@gmail.com

    Anybody want to contact her and give her a heads-up on the collective wisdom of Chump Lady and Chump Nation?

    Is she Cheater, Chump, Switzerfriend, self-appointed epicure, or *just* a person with an opinion? (Everybody’s got one.)

    • She hasn’t mentioned the article on her Twitter yet. If she does I plan to post Carmella1722’s comment, “Another shit article telling shit people that their shit behavior is ok.” Thanks for providing the Twit’s contact info, Ian.

  • So much ew in that article. It reminds me of some of the red flags I ignored when I was dating my cheater. For example, he once said that if someone cheats, they should never tell their partner because that just hurts the partner. The “noble” thing to do is keep it to yourself, carrying that burden of what you did forever, letting it eat at you instead. Ha, sure. What on earth was I thinking when I didn’t seriously question that logic? He also cheated on his high school gf with his college gf, and readily admitted it. Now I beat myself up for being so dumb. I guess I am a chump through and through!

  • Oh brother more experts. What a load of shit these people are. Once asswipe got caught he turned on me like i was the taliban. Asswipe is a true cake eating motherfucker and bastard. The writers of these articles have got to be cheaters themselves.

    • Oh Kar Marie,

      Not one to mince words are you? I love it.

      When Match Girl finally admitted to banging Fuckstick, she raged against me. She called *me* every hateful name she could muster. The one that really hurt the most? She accused me of being in the Taliban!

      • Ian a better name for F**kstick would be Match Stick to compliment Match Girl. Just to be crude for a moment but I am sure his penis is as big as a Match Stick!! Just saying. 🙂

      • Depending on those around me ie: small children i never mince words part of my charm i guess. I calls it likes i sees it.

  • Urrgghh…I just despise these enabling articles. I can be certain that my ex-wife was reading this justification rubbish while she’s getting her wax on the way to meet schmoopie at a hotel.

    An article like this is like saying, if an alcoholic occasionally stops at a bar to get shit-faced, it’s OK – he/she was bored or just fulfilling an inner need. The alcoholic might want to consider to continue drinking, in the closet of course, because there is no way that anyone will be destroyed if he/she continues to do so. Ass clowns!

    • Honestly though, what is one’s motivation to write this rubbish? Are all these PHD’s subtly justifying their own views on cheating? I am honestly dumber now after reading this crap.

    • Seriously great analogy… would love to see this article rewritten with: alcoholic, heroin addicted, closet-bi-sexual, sociopath… inserted in place of Cheater. Not thinking SELF readers would be nodding their little bobble-heads in unison to agree with this drivel.

    • If on the way home from the bar, you hit and kill a pedestrian, “Recognize that if you’re acknowledging an otherwise undiscovered hit and run (especially one that left barely a scratch on your vehicle), you’re creating emotional pain for the victim’s family.”

  • The only thing I have to offer is this: Self magazine sure has changed since I used to be a subscriber. Back then, it was about health, exercise etc. ie: How to take care of your “self”-your body.

    It wasn’t involved with such “evolved” topics as ‘how to cheat and not feel bad about it’.

    I like the good old days far better than what I know now…..

    • I’ve noticed recently a number of publication succumb to offering poorly written click bait crap. Probably all an effort to increase page views and clicks. The results are horrendous.

      It’s as if in 2012, all real writers were fired and replaced by recent college graduates who never learned grammar, sentence structure, let alone knowing how to craft a story.

      And the editors? Just as bad to let all this crap get published.

      “Top six reasons to cheat on your good husband and top seven reasons to not tell him you are a cheating w****”

  • “if you put your partner’s health at risk by forgoing condoms or other similar contraceptives, it may be your duty to tell them.”

    MAY?!?!?!? MAY?!?!?!? MAY?!?!?!?

    WTF?
    Cervical cancer and HIV can be deadly!!!!!!!

    Maybe you should tell, but only if it suits your needs not to kill your “primary partner” on that matter what the hell is a primary partner? How do you know which one is primary?

    God bless the UBT! Please buy it a martini glass of WD-40 fromm me.

    • Condoms really help with pregnancy more so than STD’s. Like HPV Type 11/16 which was gifted to me for being a loyal spouse for 23 years.. the male does not have any signs nor anyway to know he has it but the female is at a 400% risk of cervical cancer. 6 months after my discovery of this STD I had a precancerous growth removed from my cervix. Nice, isn’t it? No blisters or warts just cancer that’s all. Anyhows, if I were to have a partner where a condom it won’t help any exposed area and unless they can wear one in the mouth soo.. get my drift?

  • Only a Chump should be allowed to write articles about infidelity… experience commensurate for degree.

    Asking for prayers – Custody Mediation with Mr. Sparkles tomorrow. We’ve had our current agreement in place since October 2014 and my son just achieved Highest Honors in school (4th grade)… but Mr. Sparkles wants 50/50 to lower his child support and impress #4 (because that is what she has).

  • So much trash out there to make the scum buckets feel better about themselves. Instead of making laws to fry these people for risking our lives, we hear how much we sucked driving these people to cheat! Even my councilor (as good as she is) does not fully understand the trauma of adultery…. she has never been cheated on. Now she is anti and has no blame for the chump. Seems the majority of the trash is written to make the trash feel better about themselves!

  • “The majority of affairs end at some point, and the price is quite often the primary relationship. (Although that’s not always the case. Brangelina, anyone?)”

    Let me just vent about Brangelina! I don’t care what anybody says, those two are trash. It sickens me how people justify that bullshit because they’ve been together ten years, adopted a ton of kids and do charity work! They started a relationship while he was married! I was always team Jen because 1)they put her through public humiliation and 2)people tried to blame her for getting left for another woman because she didn’t have children with him and Saintly Whore Angie did. So, just to summarize, it’s okay to fuck another woman’s husband as long you adopt children and give to charity and it’s okay to leave your wife for another woman if said woman will give you the children you desire. It’s cancels out the fucking over of another person! Got it? Good!

    • If I understand the concept correctly, Brad’s primary relationship was with HIS WIFE, not his OW. That point in the article makes no sense. I pay zero attention to these two. They disgust me.

    • Just the fact that she writes “Brangelina anyone” makes her vapid.The fact that she uses their crap example to make her point just proves that if you hold a candle next to one of her ears and blow through the other, the candle will blow out.

      Right now there is a tree somewhere working really hard to produce oxygen so she can breathe. She she owes that tree an apology!

      • I don’t think Rachel Jacoby Zoldan needs oxygen. She survives by breathing the smoldering fumes of all the victims she’s left ablaze in her scorched-earth attempted to escape her nagging conscience.

      • Interesting although that’s now how I remember biology. Last I checked all mammals generally need to breath oxygen. I could maybe follow your logic if you were suggesting she was an alien species.

  • I subscribed to Self for many years more than a decade ago. It used to be focused mostly on women’s health and fitness. But over the years, it devolved into the celebration of shallow, image-obsessed narcissism that is so popular with its targeted age demographic, the Selfie Generation. It’s all about what makes YOU happy right at this moment. Nothing else is as important, nobody else has the right to prevent your doing whatever makes you feel best, regardless of collateral damage. A celebration of narcissism.

  • Yeah, this has got me a little steamed-up.

    I got my undergrad degree from The University of Texas at Austin College of Communication. I can do this all.day.long!

    Chumps, this is a call to action. This is how we change the narrative. Contact these folks, and invite them to participate in this thread. Create an anonymous gmail and Twitter account and follow-up with them if you want fear for your privacy. Ask the PhDs whether they care to distance themselves from Rachel Jacoby Zoldan.

    Lest anyone think I am being overzealous, Jacoby Zoldan is a Conde Naste writer. Better journalists than she are fighting the good fight online and in the trenches. (See: @MichelleFields and her battery case and subsequent row with Breitbart.)

    I contacted the PhD. Let’s see if they respond.

    Does anyone know who the editor at Self is? We need to email them regarding Chump Lady’s book release. Fair and balanced journalism might mean they need to cover the release party.

    How about Conde Naste? Anyone know a contact there?

    This is how we win Chumps. Don’t just boil in our bitter broth. Engage.

    (Update: Rachel Jacoby Zoldan blocked me on Twitter.)

    Rachel Jacoby Zoldan:
    rachel.jacoby@gmail.com
    @rjacoby13

    Dr. Jane Greer:
    drjanegreer.com
    drjanegreer@drjanegreer.com
    Media requests:
    media@stephaniewolfpr.com
    Twitter:
    @drjanegreer

    Dr. Gary Brown
    (310) 208-3105

    • Ian you are priceless!!!! 😀 What a fabulous idea! Unfortunately, like our cheating x’s, these idiots probably won’t / CAN’T allow the playing field to be leveled.

    • Why am I not surprised that the vapid fuckslut blocked you on Twitter?
      Just another fucking narcissist who can’t handle being told shes a piece of shit.

      • It’s so deliciously awful!
        From Publisher’s Weekly:

        According to this comforting New Age primer, death can be the beginning of a beautiful relationship. Indeed, it seems to open up lines of “transcommunication” as never before, Greer says, and messages from beyond the grave come in a multitude of formats, including dreams, friendly animals, rainbows and electrical disturbances. She offers examples, too, of departed loved ones taking a more active role-by counseling the living on life projects, helping them find apartments, even fixing them up with Mr. Right. Greer, a Redbook online sex columnist and author of Gridlock: Finding Courage to Move On in Life, Love and Work, describes herself as a “psychoanalytically trained” therapist, but departs from Freudian orthodoxy by collaborating with a psychic and urging her patients to directly contact their deceased relatives as an integral part of the therapeutic process. Her material is drawn mostly from their case studies, and from her experience with her own late mother, a particularly voluble spirit who manifests herself in the form of rabbits, doves, butterflies, toppled family photos, stopped clocks, malfunctioning radios and serendipitous encounters with the song “La Vie en Rose.” Greer offers some practical tips on communicating with the dead to enable readers to bypass mediums and seances; candles and meditation exercises help, but a simple blurted entreaty (“Hi, Mom…Please let me know you’re here”) often does the trick. She takes a stab at rationalizing everything by reference to relativity, quantum physics, thermodynamics and paranormal research, but grieving survivors may be happy to take it all on faith.

        Copyright 2003 Reed Business Information, Inc.

        • The same Book that says that adultery is really really bad has some choice words on the subject of necromancy.

          • Theres so much wisdom in that Book. Regarding that other book…it sounds really crazy. Id rather read plumbing instruction manuals.

    • I wonder…. should you continue to hide the affairs in your afterlife? I mean if a chump speaks to her dead husband, shoud he tell her? Asswipes.

      • My X dying is the only way I will communicate with him willingly. Do I then get the chance to tell him what a worthless lump of carbon-based material he was in real life and how much I loathe him?

  • I like CL’s No Bullshit approach. Unhappy with your marriage? Then tell your spouse…get counselling…file for divorce…dont cheat! Nobody is FORCING you to stay married?Its that simple. But some people cannot even understand this simple concept. Somebody please create an instruction broshure with stick figure drawings for these retards.

    • I’m pretty sure all the bullshit is simply because cheaters don’t want to give up half their possessions and their societal status/appearance. It’s not about staying because they still love us or are confused, it’s about staying because they like their stuff too much.

  • The saddest thing about Cluster B’s is that there is virtually no cure — it is hard for those of us who have made mistakes, regret them, and sincerely work on ourselves to change, to accept. They also only feel for themselves when caught, or are inconvenienced by the chumps removing cake. They really don’t feel remorse or care that we feel pain or suffer from medical problems.

    This type of article helps them to feel like they are “normal” to continue doing whatever it is they are doing. The views give support to their blame shifting and denial. Most of the reasoning here is clearly entrenched in the pop culture belief system. We made them cheat because we did this, or did not do that. Really? Like being bored is an acceptable excuse for any crime? Refusing to suddenly change the rules of the marriage game, which we have been playing, because one player gets a whim? If the common law worked that way, we could all say we decided to rob the convenience store because we were bored, and hungry, and our spouse refused to give us money for Twinkies and HoHo’s. So we just had to steal. Really, the spouse should be the one punished, because it was their duty to provide any thing our little hearts desired. Sure.

    As for the concept that advanced degrees = wisdom, lets just say that many members of my family have advanced degrees and I work for a school, and advanced book knowledge in one subject has nothing to do with common sense. Most academics who have a sense of humor will gladly explain what the letters stand for in BS, MS, and PHD. I’ve met many folks who have no formal education who are much wiser than the “learned” folks who tell everyone who will listen about their advanced degrees. This article uses many words to say nothing at all.

    • I wonder how these idiot cheater apologists reply when we are supposed to take the blame and then be their ‘friend’ because what they did wasnt wrong cause it made them happy? And we wont take blame or forgive the unforgivable or be their effing friend. More shit to blame on us. Other than here and divorce minister and a few others where is our voice in all this. I really hate the RIC!

  • True words again……”Obviously you need to Feel More Alive at the expense of making a chump feel like dying. Obviously”!

  • This article feels like armchair quarterbacking from folks who don’t realize that football isn’t played with a puck. They have no clue what these experiences feel like. They have no empathy for the victims of this abuse. It’s all narcspeak for other narcs. *blows chunks*

    • Yes, because narcs are the idiots telling them all about affairs. Unfortunately, betrayed people are usually quite shocked and devastated by what happened. I have a feeling many of us are not in the best state of mind to be able to refute the lies when we are in wreckonciliation therapy. So, the cheater gets to control the narrative that he or she has been practicing for months or years.

  • So sad that so many of our cheating, lying, misleading, truth-bending and truth-withholding partners think, ‘Something is missing from our relationship’ and may say so only when they dump us or we discover their adultery (often years after the fact) but subtly or not so subtly indicate that the cause of the dissatisfaction is one or several of our ‘faults’ (real or perceived and often petty) as opposed to something undeveloped or underdeveloped in them.

    I still fall into the trap of thinking I could have avoided being dumped by my ex-boyfriend if I had just been more perfect…richer, professionally more accomplished, less unencumbered by kids and obnoxious ex, less wrinkled, chirpier in spite of mountainous levels of tragedies and stressors in my family’s lives the last couple of years. I think that eventually I’m become a cat lady. At least the cats I have known have never lied to me nor hurt me out of repeated gross insensitivity (while knowing they were insensitive).

    • I fall into this trap too. I thought the only reason he asked for an open marriage is because I sucked at sex and was horrible to be married to in general. (I mean he did say sex with the mistress was so much better than with me and he told me all about how abnormal I was and how much I sucked in general.) Then, he got remarried to someone new, so all of a sudden he becomes monogamous when I’m not around. In a moment of weakness, I googled my ex’s old sex site handle. Apparently, he has a blog on one of the sex sites. In it, he writes about the adventures of his open marriage with his new wife. It kind of blew up in his face. I don’t know why I’m surprised that he would break the rules of their open marriage contract. He even kicked the wife out of the house and lived with his new girlfriend for a while. Unfortunately for him, the girlfriend also broke the contract and cheated. After things went south with the girlfriend, he demanded that his wife give up her boyfriend. She didn’t. He found this out because he spied due to his paranoid and distrusting nature. The whole thing read like a Jerry Springer show. He’s still the same jerk he was when I was married to him. And why wouldn’t he be when he thinks everyone else is the problem – not him?

      We dodge a huge bullet by getting out. The cheating and pain we already experienced was likely just the tip of the iceberg. Being better wouldn’t make us more likely to be loved by assclowns, it would just be a huge effort on our part wasted on an assclown.

      • The person in her ‘primary relationship’ is going to be curious about how she knows so much about the topic. She’ll probably say they’re controlling and jealous.

        • Thanks JannaG and RockStarWife, I can relate. One of my current faves on YouTube talks much about how someone (like a Chump) who is in relationship with a disordered person (think cluster b) can start to look a bit disordered themselves to those on the outside (and further explains that it’s most likely not a disorder rather CPTSD). So if the narc is outwardly ordered, invested in controlling the narrative, and the Chump is frazzled, chumped, and has a colonized mind – the deck is totally stacked against us

  • ‘Although this view is controversial, it can be best to keep the whole thing to yourself. “Most people don’t tell their partner unless they get caught, and that’s a really personal decision,”

    … And some make a personal decision, once caught, to ask ‘who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes’? in increasingly strident tones of indignation should you choose to continue to believe your ‘lying eyes’ and keep asking questions.

    Actually the one positive this asinine article has going for it is it assumes the cheater will do one thing (that they really don’t) and that is ‘consider your chump and their feelings’.

  • Today this person at my work made a joke about how what you don’t know can’t hurt you. I shut it down.

    “That doesn’t fly in my world right now.”

    Yep. Shit is hard.

    • Creativereational – Whoever this person is at your work is completely wrong. What you don’t know can hurt you, in fact it can even kill you. Ignorance is not bliss. This woman was being poisoned by her husband, who was cheaeting on her and giving her gatorade to drink mixed with anti-freeze. She kept singing her husband’s praises, all the while he was killing her softly She was ignorant and ended up dead. Knowledge and truth are power, and are what save lives. This person at work is a colossal moron.

    • I used to think that it would be better to not know about an affair, just because of how much pain it caused. I’ve changed my mind on that. I have high risk HPV from my ex-husband. (I’m was just slightly too old when the vaccine came out and hey, I was married anyway). I don’t know whether he contracted it from an ex-girlfriend he had before we were married or from one of his affair partners. I found out because I had two biopsies, a laser ablation surgery and a hysterectomy to stop the severe pre-cancer from turning into cervical cancer. STDs are common. I heard one statistic that said about 80% of women will have some form of HPV by the time they are 50. In my younger years, I thought my ex was fine because there was no physical signs of an STD. I later learned many people can be asymptomatic. It doesn’t necessarily mean someone is STD free if their body looks fine. Seriously, many cheaters live in a magical fairy land of no consequences anyway, so is it really all that likely they would use a condom during sex?

  • Another PhD psychologist and chump here. Sigh. I haven’t felt the need to comment previously due to the the witty, well informed comments of all the other chumps. Someone is always able to express my thoughts and feelings so eloquently that I feel at home and understood just reading Tracy’s words and the comments of chump nation. However, after reading this piece, I felt so disgusted at the continuing ignorance of my fellow professionals that I am writing to offer my apologies. Because, after all, I am a chump. Anyone who went to a psychologist and was fed this blame shifting, manipulative crap should be angry. Ian Dublito has it right. Be these “experts” peer reviewers. I do not know of any other group of individuals who have researched and understand this topic more thoroughly than chump nation.
    Don’t let anyone, with or without letters behind their name, change your truth.

  • As always, late to the game: gotta finish up with my patients first.
    However, on the ride into (or was it home from) work today heard a fascinating piece on NPR linking Herpes virus and chlamydia linked strongly with Alzheimer’s disease. Sorry I can’t cite it but I don’t drive and text, etc.

    Does that help explain while our ex’es are such cretins? (OK, wrong medical use of the term, but I simply love the word ‘cretin’) Let’s substitute cognitively impaired instead. Significantly cognitively impaired, per what I heard on NPR.

    And: what of those of us who unknowingly carried chlamydia for years, completely innocent with no knowledge whatsoever, no absolutely freaking clue; and never will I ever, forget exhole’s one offere, so to speak, one that’d be, for once in many years, ‘loving’ towards me, and then realizing he had a sizeable Herpes sore on his lip.

    May the big, obvious, honkin’ Herpes sore(s) be recurrent forevet; noted from the start that it appeared with stress and ex attributed it to one ‘innocent kiss’ as a teenager. Yeah, right.

    I knee them and if necessary kick them fast and hard. He got nowhere near anything he might possibly infect with that honkin’ herpes. And this is a jerk who’d go to derm surgery, have a suspicious growth removed then spend the rest of the day basking in the sun. NOT exactly healthy for either Herpes or melanoma, but the latter will take him faster.

    As for the chlamydia, nothing I could know about that at the time, when we were supposedly trying to become parents–ha,ha—and wondered why that didn’t happen. As soon as I was treated, I was fertile as could be: but himself had been infected for however many years with how many different strains from how many different women that he at that point was simply shooting blanks!

    One of my greatest post-divorce, his life with Schmoopie laughs is that he actually put himself through a vasectomy (!) all in an attempt to prove his virilitly, his vital or should I say VIRAL male energy. Honestly, dude probably did it hoping he’d get oxy’s. Seriously.

    What a waste of our country’s health care resources. m

    To go to the point of surgery to prove a narc to himself and his flavor of the day, so sad.

    • You know, after my hysterectomy, when I did get oxycodone, they only gave me a prescription for 20 pills – no refills. The doc also gave me a non-opiate prescription. I can only imagine the lengths one would have to go through to keep getting those pills via having surgery.

  • Primary relationship? Wouldn’t that be the affair? In this context it sounds like they are calling the marriage the primary relationship, but in reality that is the ‘person being played’ relationship, aka secondary while the affair is going on.

    Two people are scamming a third, does it sound like the third person is the one in the primary relationship?

  • I think the main reason cheaters who don’t get caught want to keep their secret about an affair, even after it is over, is because they plan on doing it again.

    If you know they are a cheater, you will always be watching them. If you don’t know, they are free to continue their ways when the next fuckbuddy comes along. Or when the same one comes back. Which they usually do, cause it’s easier than trolling for a new side fuck. Cheaters are very lazy.

    Ex confessed to his whoring, I guess so I could “fight” for him or something, pretended to want a divorce, but never would fucking leave. He lied about the whore’s identity and since he’d Confessed I had no evidence like most people do. This left him free to circle back to this same whore with no repercussions. The truth usually comes out in time, and I was able to kick this loser to the curb for good.

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