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Dear Chump Lady, I chased my cheater through a mall…

divorce-when-being-wrong-every-day-for-being-alive-isnt-working-for-you-anymore-1b4e4Hi Chump Lady!

I work in retail, and today I ran into my soon-to-be-ex and his affair partner (ex’s best friend’s girlfriend) while on my break.

We’d been married 23 years, he felt the need to find himself, felt her up while doing so, but lied, lied, lied… You hear this everyday, I know. But, our 90-day cooling off period has come and gone, the papers are signed, and I am literally waiting for him to take them to the court house. (Uncontested divorce. I chose to leave crazy, and Lord knows you can’t fight it and the guilt-ridden agreement is very satisfactory.)

I’m still waiting. So imagine my surprise to see them at the mall today! But more surprising is when he left her and ducked behind a pillar as I walked past! He waits, then scoots to the escalator with her, she turns to him and says “who were you looking at?” So, of course, I turn and follow them up the escalator (righteous, pissed off, pick me shoes ON! Not proud.) I confront him as they exit, of course after exchanging pleasantries (I can, and have had to fake it before…) I inquired as to the delay in completing the process! A hundred excuses later, I made sure to state, clearly for the love-deaf AP to hear: “We should have been divorced a month ago! Why are you holding this up? Let’s get this done!” Exhausted from my fake nice song (and dance), I leave. And laugh, laugh some more, then start shaking.

I guess the question is — what does “meh” truly feel like? Because although today’s exchange was ridiculously funny, I do not feel any better for it. If anything, it just drives home harder that I was married to a coward, someone willing to hide behind a pillar rather than be civil. A mall rat of the worst variety. A waste of 23 years. I’m sad I gave my youth to this man. I have to see them again at a family event where I will be the one to avoid him this time, it would be easier with a dose of meh. Please, how does one get there?

Thank you so much!


Dear Pondy,

It’s impossible to feel “meh” when you’re still going through the divorce process. Everyone wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die, as the saying goes. You’re still hip-deep in the suffering stages, sorry. And your not-quite-ex is prolonging this swan song.

Why would he do that? Because the cake-y deliciousness of power and control is hard to give up. Because he might not really be feeling so generous after 24/7 life with the OW. Because he’s really used to agreeing to things he has zero intention of committing to (like marriage vows and/or divorce settlements).

Do you have a lawyer? Why does HE have to take it to the courthouse? Or is that just shorthand for “he has to sign it to finalize it”? I’d be looking at ways you can start applying some pressure to push this thing through.

One tactic my particular divorce lawyer tried (I also had one of these divorce-phobic cheaters) was to simply ask for more and more the longer he waited. Didn’t matter if I wasn’t legally entitled to it. Didn’t matter if it was unreasonable. So were his delay tactics. You want to communicate: “The window on reasonable settlement is CLOSING. Now I want your federal pension and collection of Franklin Mint collector’s plates.”

If you stupidly and chumpily tried mediation and expected him to keep his word? How’s that working for you? Get a strong lawyer.

I think confronting him in front of the affair partner was a terrific way to exert pressure. Well played, Pondy. These fruit-loop OW often demand commitments from cheaters. (Baffling isn’t it?) You’ve let her know the hold up isn’t YOU, it’s HIM. But remember — he’s playing the power and control game with her too. She wants a commitment? He’s not going to give it to her. She’s not the boss of him! Oh sure he’ll make all sorts of promises, but he has you to play Obstacle to Their Happiness. You just publicly renounced the role of hypotenuse. Good for you. I’m sure he feels utterly fucked. (And so does she at some level. “Who are you looking at?” I wonder how often she says that…)

Now then, about that meh. Acceptance takes time and distance. And you cannot distance yourself from a cheater while you’re still at the bargaining table with him. So just keep trudging through this crap and remember that the pain is finite. You will get to the other side. And your ex will still probably be lurking around a pillar, skulking away from responsibility. Leave him at Cheaters Bargain Barn. I hear they’re having a sale on fuckwits.

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  • I couldn’t get to Meh before the divorce (and I’m still waiting, after) but I think there’s hope for all of us not there yet. Seeing the cheater for what they really are I think is what helps get you on a road towards Meh. It’s so difficult to drop those illusions it is not temporary insanity on his part.

  • Dear PSG,
    You’re almost there! Meh is just around the corner. If I read your letter correctly, it’s not that you want him back, you’re stressing because you want him GONE. Completely gone. I had one of those delay- everything-as-long-as-possible cheaters too. It was maddening. Chump Lady is exactly right; it was a power trip on his part. He didn’t want me back and I sure as hell didn’t want him back but apparently he just couldn’t give up that last little bit of power he had to make my life miserable. Once the final tie is cut it feels like you instantly lost 290 pounds of dead weight off your back. BLISS! Best weight loss plan ever! 😉
    Keep the faith girl, it’ll happen and you’ll arrive in Meh and never look back.

    • Beth, what is it with the cheaters that won’t let go ? I have the exact same one (a female version).

      It’s crazy how long they just keep the divorce processes going. I tell myself if the AP/OM was such hotstuff she would have filed for divorce and divorce in record time. Because that’s what I would have done, if I met my “tru lwe” I would file for divorce and be with the other one… not true?

      But my ex is delaying under disguise of child support (she has not even come to the table proving their expenses).

      Pisses me off to nth degree.

      • IKR SDK?! It is crazy town! In my situation, he was (is) living with his stripper gf who was not the cause of the separation (that was a different stripper gf), our kids are adults so no child support, and we were basically no contact. When I told him I was filing for divorce he “promised” that he would do everything in his power to make it go quickly and smoothly. Fortunately I knew him well enough not to believe he would be any better at keeping that promise than he was at any of the others (forsaking all others, for example) so my expectations were pretty low. And still, he managed to crawl below my exceeding low expectations and cause what seemed like endless delays and frustration. It has to be the power trip. I just don’t think a normal thinking person would ever be able to understand what goes on in their twisted brains.

        But as I said to PSG, once it’s finally over, it is pure bliss. Hang in there SDK, you’ll get there!

        • Thanks Beth.

          “It has to be the power trip. I just don’t think a normal thinking person would ever be able to understand what goes on in their twisted brains. ”

          I see it EXATLY the same. I love to see someone else confirming this for me and reading this blog/and seeing stories shows me that I’m 100% on the money.

          Mine also promised quick divorce hahah.. she fooled me though. But it showed me her true colours, while we were married, I always felt she was using me (ATM). She is just proving to me that my 6th sense was right on the money…

          • SDK satan delayed MY divorce for almost 3 years. Asshole didn’t want to give up his sure thing and best wife appliance 😀 He’s an asshole…so is your cheater.

        • Beth! I think you’ve identified the super-power of cheaters: “The power to sink below your expectations no matter how low you set the bar.”

          • Co-sign. I’ve had to remove the phrase “I can’t believe he’d (insert latest bit of insane fuckery)!” from my vocabulary as it relates to ex because sadly, nothing he does or says shocks me these days.

            • Every time my Ex stoops to an all new low, usually based on some bizarre concept stuck on his under developed brain. I message a friend entitled
              ” in the latest edition of you can’t make this shit up” and then I will spill. Or I will say “in response to A do you think cheater did X, Y or Z?
              You guessed it the craziest option is usually the answer or some times it is a combination of all three because , you just can’t make this shit up.

    • Agree! And the delay-as-long-as-possible is SO common, I can only think it’s because the hot-steamy-stuff starts cooling and coagulating from the minute they’re ‘finally allowed’ to be together. What was once a sweaty urgency to wrest free from their bonds so they can embrace each other in true love forever quickly wore off. Days became sort of mundane and nights became a bit dull around the edges — so the importance of divorcing for some kind of grand gesture to each other becomes uncertain.

      • HopeAndGloria

        Yip.. the fun wears off. Now that they can have each other, the naughty is over. Now it’s just a normal relationship. Reality kicks in…

        • very true. my xh and the ow blew up very quickly once she realized she was stuck with a tightass grouchy old man and he realized she’s lazy, loves to spend money and refuses to work. once i stopped financially supporting the circus the clowns left.

        • SDK – The naughty is over. They can have each other. Just a normal relationship. LOL yep.

          While the children left in the dust are struggling with depression and anger and frustration.

          • This is my first post and I’m new to Chump Nation! I knew somewhere inside of me that I should strike a deal with my STBX when he was in the “hot and heavy” stage of his affair and willing to chew off his own paw to get out of the trap. He gave away the store and I was more than happy to take it. It was the least he could do after a 17 year marriage and leaving me with our adopted daughter just two years after we brought her home from China.

            He had an a brief affair in 2005 with a good friend. We got through that, painfully, but I swore if it ever happened again I’d walk away. Four months after D day with a 24 year old coworker (he’s 50) our settlement is done, the divorce is filed, he’s moved out, I’m going NC and washing that motherfucker out of my hair. I’m a long way to “meh” but this site is a Godsend. Thank you!

  • Wait. Just happened to be in the mall the same time and place as you? How exciting!

    • You’re right Nancy!! Rocket scientist he is not, running into me was imminent.. I’m sure he thought continuing his old ways but with a new fool made him impervious to ex sightings..

  • Thanks so much CL for the awesome insight, without this sight and the great Chumpnation, it might have been me hiding hiding when I saw them, not him. The legal choke hold begins today, no more waiting, no more excuses… I cannot tell you how satisfying it was to confront them, how many times I wished I had the opportunity to say this or that to him (like “does she know you’re the one that isn’t closing this deal?) well the Universe, Kharma, whatever you believe in delivered. I’ll never wear those righteous, pissed off pick me shoes ever again… Thank you!!! On a side note, any communication from him will meet with the response “have you hugged a pillar today?” from me…. Smell ya later cheater!!!

    • Good for you, pondscumbgone! I was in a similar situation, waiting several months for my ex to sign the papers. Followups from my lawyer just came back with the same: he has not yet signed. Finally, I mentioned this issue to my ex’s new girlfriend (not the OW, but a new lovebombing target it seems), and HEY what a coincidence — he signed and turned the papers into his lawyer within a couple of days. Magic, right?

    • You’re awesome!

      And don’t worry about how you felt (both good & bad) after that confrontation. Likely you’ve suffered some PTSD symptoms at the hands of that douchepotato, so those are normal reactions to the threat that your mind perceives when you see him. Stay mighty!

      • Thank you Sephage, at first I thought the shaking was from laughing so hard.. But I’ve never been so glad to have my coworkers (second family) around.. They were forming a hunting party lol!!! They also got me through the shakes…

        • Bravo, Pondscumbgone! You handled things perfectly! 🙂 You are strong and well on your way to Meh! Sounds like you have a great tribe for support, too. Oh, to be a fly in the car when they left the mall…. LOL!!!

    • PSG, I predict you’ll be hearing from him soon to tell you what a jerk YOU were for embarrassing him in front of his twu wuv. Then he’ll tell you he WANTED to get those papers in to the courthouse, but because YOU confronted him, he isn’t so sure now.

      Because he gets off on the power he still holds over you. His embarrassment will morph into rage. AGAINST YOU.

      • I so hope for the rage, ruining his day in front of his beloved skank is the least he deserves… I’m currently shopping for a tee shirt that says “SHIELDS UP!! “, cuz that’s what it’s going to be until this is over!

  • Trudging through. A good description. He moved out two months ago and we’re agonizingly slowly but surely working through the settlement. I also feel like I should be further along to meh but I know that won’t happen until this part is over. Just trying to hold on to my sanity at this point and the hope of meh in the future.

    Good luck to you Pondy. See you on the other side soon!

    • You too At peace, thank you!! Hang in there, tomorrow is Tuesday, right? Tuesdays are a chumps day off from the stress, I learned that here…

      • My ex-husband pulled the same delay shit. It cost him $20,000 extra in legal fees he had to pay my lawyer!!! LOL! So much for your stupid fucking tactics.

  • I disagree with the idea that 23 years were wasted because the relationship ended. Surely it must have been good until a certain point, otherwise divorce would have happened sooner. Everything we do ends some day. I refuse to belittle a decade because of terrible moments. Even if the marriage was an illusion, if it was enjoyable then it was not wasted time.
    Meeting STBX with AP is a horrible experience, and the person our STBX becomes is nothing we could long for. Once the attachment is gone, we see a miserable old coward.

    • What keeps me from feeling like my 11 year illusion of a marriage was a waste are my kids. They are everything to me. My baby was 1 when Dday happened, so in a way I am greatful that I didn’t find out before she came to be. But I just don’t know how to feel about all those years of my marriage. I really was happy, not knowing he was a fake, not knowing he was messing around with other women. But when I look back on what I thought were happy memories, they make me feel sick. If I didn’t have my kids, then yes I think I would feel like those years were a waste.

      • I’m in the same boat. He cheated before and after we got married, so there was no “good” to look back on with the exception of my child. If I hadn’t had my son, I would absolutely feel that all those years were wasted.

        • chumpfromf standing ovation for your comment, esp the last line!!!

          • Phoenix, I’m with you. I’m grateful that my STBX and I stayed together long enough to adopt our amazing child. And that he left before our divorce could have even more psychological impact on her, as she’s only four and so far seems to be doing ok. I wouldn’t wish these last horrible six months on my worst enemy and sometimes I didn’t know if I would survive it, but I am so grateful for my little girl. I’m the 53 year old mother of a 4 year old and I’ll always be grateful to my X for that.

      • I know exactly how you feel, Phoenix2016. I spent 22 married years with my cheater. I thought we had a wonderful marriage until my first DDay. I chose to forgive him because he convinced me that it was a stupid, drunken mistake at a friend’s bachelor party. I chose to trust him again. We ended up with three beautiful children and many years of good times, but there were many strange behaviors that only now make sense to me. When everything finally blew up, I realized that all of the years that I thought were good, were actually me living in a carefully constructed falsehood. All of my memories are tainted. What breaks my heart is that my children are also looking back at their memories and feeling that betrayal. The kids (20,18 and 15) do not know the gory details of their father’s years of prostitutes, massage “therapists” and SugarDaddy hookups, but even knowing generally that there was repeated infidelity, they are questioning what they thought was true about their family. I don’t want them to lose the happy memories of their childhoods and carry their father’s disfunction with them, but I don’t know if I can prevent it. They know that they are loved by both parents, but when you start to realize the magnitude of the lies we all lived with, the happy memories are forever changed because everyone feels chumped.

        • There was a post a while back about taking back places and memories. That’s a good thing to do. And it’s good for your kids to question “what they thought was true about their family” if in fact what they thought was not true. That is–you can help them see they were not wrong to think the family was “happy” and solid but that they (like you) did not have crucial information. Once you know what is true, then you can adjust your thinking about the past. Memories are just thoughts we have about things. If we can empower kids to be resilient and not slaves to a “carefully constructed falsehood,” we are helping them not repeat the dysfunction by helping them to see the signs and the red flags.

        • Everyone, including the kids feel chumped. Such a sad, but true fact. Collateral damage for all the betrayed.
          Also true is you cannot long for what your X/STBX has become.

      • Phoenix2016, I did 22 years, then got parole. Catering to MoFaux, his family of origin (mostly rude to me) and kids. Thankless.

        I resonate with what you said re memories. Mine got hit by a grenade. It helped my cPTSD an immense amount to give away, return, destroy anything that reminded me of him. Even if it was so-called valuable. It had no value to me. And then I looked at MY values!

        • I second what you said about getting rid of the reminders, Virago. Last week I had Salvation Army come and take away the ugly 1960’s dining room set my ex MIL foisted on us which we moved from house to house over 30 years. It brings a smile to my face every time I walk past that empty room and DON’T have to see that reminder of her and my ex. I thought about burning it in the backyard but then I thought that maybe someone else using it and enjoying it would destroy it’s bad ju-ju.

        • Virago + Beth – Can’t agree more!

          After DDay, my friends told me to make copies of all financials. Instinctively I also packed and squirreled away artwork, jewelry, and memory-laden family things that reminds me of joyful family times. I knew I wanted my kiddo to look through them over time, and choose what to do with these things when she is older.

          Before I told my X we were separating, I used our joint account to pay the deposit on my new place, and bought all new furnishings and all my kiddo and I needed for our new start. I put all the furniture together on my own, my new place was ready to go by the day we told our kiddo we were divorcing. The news of the divorce devastated her, and she was hesitant to come with me to see her new room. I will forever remember how her eyes lit up when she saw her room, which I had decorated with many of the things she had been asking for in the months prior.

          I am grateful every day to have had the money and energy to design a trigger-free environment for both of us, it has been a most needed haven of peace as I forge on to Meh!

    • Writing off the whole time span of a marriage, e.g., twenty or ten or two “wasted years,” gives the cheater too much centrality. Certainly it’s worth noticing how much spackling we did, how many red flags we overlooked, how much lying and deception went on, how badly we were gaslighted. And it’s also worth noting how social and religious pressure keeps people in relationships that are abusive or lack any reciprocity. But that’s all for the relationship autopsy. Meanwhile, over those years, we worked, we learned, we traveled, we read, we nurtured kids and animal and old people. We pursued interests like gardening or cooking or music.

      One thing that keeps us from “Meh” is putting that relationship at the heart of what we do and feel. So even during and after divorce, a disordered cheater is taking up way too much space in our heads. The fact that legalities can take time can lead to mighty moments like Pondscumbgone confronting the cheater and OW about those divorce papers. Getting to Meh is a process of becoming someone who puts his or her own needs at the top of the list. We love kids, parents, pets, and friends, but we only get one life of our own. And to do right by anyone we care about, we need to get healthy on all fronts. For me, that meant figuring out who I am without a man. It meant forgiving myself for having such a bad picker and doing the work to fix that. i meant learning to see what attracted me to a jackass and why I would let such a person have the power to wound me. For those with far more complicated situations–property, kids, joint businesses, shared social circles–it’s a more complex process. But it all comes down to demoting the cheater from being the #1 focal point–not as a partner, not as a cheater/narcissist/predator, not as a co-parent or pseudo-friend, not as a memory. I used to think about Jackass all the time in the car, until one day I said to myself, “You have to stop this,” and turned on a talk station and paid attention to what people were talking about. (Could just as easily been non-triggering music, sports, news, or an audio book). Don’t let disordered people take up space in your head. They’re just a bad habit to break.

      • Don’t let disordered people take up space in your head.

        Very good advice, @LAJ.

        Although, unfortunately, I think it’s easier said than done. My situation is not as complicated as many others on this forum (we were never married and thus, no divorce; no kids; no commingled finances), but I was with my X for the past 8 years and we lived together for 7 of those 8 years. He was a serial cheater and I actually caught him with someone else in our *home* just a few months ago. I am in no contact. But, he just won’t go away. He sends me emails, I see he continues to call me (I have blocked him, but I still have to manually delete blocked messages on my iPhone as they go into their own section in my voicemail), and his family (whom I never had a relationship with while we were together) has tried to contact me. Although he has made it abundantly clear to me that he does not want to be in a relationship with me, he just can’t let go. Or, maybe it’s just that he can’t let go of the idea that he is no longer central to me. Anyhow, I believe it was @Ian whose X ghosted him (in an archived CL post)… and I wish mine would just disappear, as I think it would be so much easier for me to move forward that way. Nonetheless, your posts (which I tend to read 2 – 3 times so they actually sink in) are always very thoughtfully written, rational, and exceptionally helpful, LAJ. Thank you.

        • When the stakes are low, that’s when these cheaters won’t leave you alone and give you attention. How about he give you that much attention when you were together, instead of porking that other woman in your very own home. You’re no longer in his control and he hates that, he needs to be the one to ignore you, cheat on you, call the shots and make you feel insignifant. How dare you give him a taste of his own medecine. Bravo, carry on ignoring him.

        • aka,

          Agreed. LovedAJackass is an amazing source of insight. Her posts are always worth (at least) a second read.

          Yes, aka, the cheater in my life is three months silent-treatment at this point. I am curious. There is a really interesting split amongst cheaters. Some seem to disconnect and never look back; and some cheaters seem to continually circle-back for more kibbles. Is it a reflection of their narcissism? Is it a measure of our mighty? What is the distinguishing characteristic of a hoovering cheater? And why do we all (well I am) seem to be jealous of other Chumps of we don’t have rhe other kind, i.e., “I wish my cheater was a ‘Hoover versus Silent-treatment.” Is one really better than the other.

          In Match Girl news: I managed all the household chores, like prescriptions, so I still have online-access to her Walgreens account. Last week I sent a brutal Petition for Protection from Domestic Violence from MG with a request for her to grant immediate possession of my dog. I saw yesterday that Match Girl refilled her Paxil for the first time since D-Day. I guess playing-me-off of Match Stick and claiming that I was the one dragging my feet is starting to stress her out a bit. ???

          aka, I’m sorry he won’t leave you alone. I know you said you’re in a new town and you don’t have much real-world support. Hang in there. Maybe it’s time for a new phone number?

          Chumps, may you all chase a cheater through a mall in front of their adultery-partner today. THEY SUCK!!!

          • Ian Dubito my cheater STBXW also went no contact on me starting middle December 2015. That is when the AP (he is full blown 100% Narc) left his wife.. so I think my STBXW is dancing the pick me dance for him and he is love bombing the poop out of her 🙂

            I know the AP’s wife (and helped her in the start). He is full blown narc, It was weird to see a person tick each narc tick mark, hoovering, the discard, the control, the triangulation etc.

            So I think he is controlling the STBXW already etc. She is avoiding me because she is dragging heels in the divorce. She is avoiding me at all cost lol.

            But I endured enough of her crap (she is a controlling manipulative cheater). So the less I have to do with her , the better is my life.

            • SDK, sounds like she’s having to smoke a lot of pole to keep him from kicking her ass to the curb.

              I take no small amount of pleasure in knowing that Match Girl is guzzling cum like a wet-vac in a desperate attempt to protect her public-image. ????

              • Hey Ian, I think both ways suck. Mine walked out and I was doing the pick me dance. I would call, email and text him. In the 3 years since he left he has only occasionally sent some stupid picture of the beach or some other crap.
                Since he claims to be the wounded party, he acts as if I don’t exist. I still have moments of WTF just happened. I just do not get how you can spend 25 years with someone and they just erase you, like you never existed. I think that is the thing that still gets me hung up and gives him real estate in my head. He does not have someone else, never did. His romance scam on POF was crap. No girl. So I spent a long time thinking, wow he would rather be alone than with me? Screwed up thinking. I have to keep reminding myself that he checked out of the marriage a long time ago. He just went up in a puff of smoke. One would think that we never had a life together. It is just bizarre. Everything he has done since is as if he is someone I never knew. I loved with a stranger.

              • Velvet, thank you. You’ve expressed so clearly exactly how I’m feeling today. I’ve been struggling with feeling abandoned by STBX’s family (‘cuz I had coffee with his sister and heard what in-laws think – she was honest but now I’m reeling).

                Anyway, I wrote them a “shame on you” email (‘cuz I learned about his sister’s sexual abuse at the hands of STBX when she was little – and parents knew but swept it under the rug) and sent it.

                And I’ve been so so good about No Contact. I wanted to feel powerful and finally say what’s on my mind.

                Hahahaha – ironically, sister told me that STBX persuaded them that he had to have “affairs” because I was so emotionally cold and angry to live with. for. twenty. years. And these people have known me. And they are “principled” “Christian” people.

                Also – I struggle with trying to always “see both sides.” This can be a good quality except in my marriage it allowed me accept way too many years of yuck. Anyway, learning about his family’s take on this makes me think “they might have a point.”

                And that sucks.

              • Roaring–his family does NOT have a point. There is an overwhelming need for us to think of ourselves as good people (and that extends to wanting to think of people in our inner circle, including family, as “good people”). The desire to maintain our self-esteem is stronger than virtually any other psychological drive. Stronger even than the need for our conclusions to fit the data.

                Hence the dilemma of the cheater and (usually) his/her family and his/her immediate friends–the fucktards did something awful (cheating), victimized innocent spouses and children, and yet people are driven to want to maintain the “good people” status. How to do this? Blame the victim–the innocent spouse must have sucked in some way, and wasn’t meeting the needs of the cheaterfucktard. Or, you can go all EstherPerel and think true lurve is such a lofty goal that the means justifies the end (kid has to be hospitalized for suicidal thoughts after his/her family breaks apart–just collateral damage toward the common good).

                That doesn’t mean the blame-the-victim mentality is correct, just that it permits psychological equilibrium.

                I know how painful it is, though. While X’s family is silently on my side (most of them have thought he was an arrogant ass for years), there are friends who have bought X’s claim that marital problems drove him to cheat just a little, bitty bit. Total horseshit, and no reflection on us, but it’s hard not to worry that we suck when other people can spew that nonsense so convincingly.

                It’s not you. (And especially given your X’s depravity, it couldn’t be you. at all.)

              • Roaring – It sounds to me that your STBX’s family’s “principled Christian” values are nothing more than an image management smokescreen.

                Please remember that their reactions (or lack of outrage at their son’s appalling behavior) do not mean that you haven’t suffered, that you haven’t sacrificed and put his well-being (and maybe his family’s) before your own.

                However, the fact that your STBX’s family chose to sweep sexual abuse under the rug is an enormous red flag of character disturbance. Your STBX and his family have not shown signs that they will in any way validate your suffering nor your choice to divorce your STBX (especially if you disclose his adultery to his family and to wider circles).

                I have little to share but my wholehearted sympathy. My own marriage was shorter, but similar in its pattern to yours. I welcomed my X’s family in my home for weeks at a time, and I traveled to see them more often than I saw my own family. Yet my X’s family basically ceased to be in touch with me after my decision to divorce him.

                It burns like a thousand bucket of acid being poured on my chest just thinking about how little they cared after over a decade of going above and beyond to make them feel welcome into my life as my family… I’m working hard to digest all this as they will remain my kiddo’s family…

                One of the things I am doing is to explore why their validation matters so much to me.

                Portia’s recent comment of her choice to choose peace over accuracy really resonated with me. I believe my version of Meh boils down to accepting that when it comes to my X and his family, I have to choose peace over justice…


              • Chumpitude – just awesome advice. Thank you very much.

                It was hard, like right after D-day-hard, for a few hours this afternoon, but then I realized that OF COURSE.

                They (FOO) are ALL fucked up.

                And it was a great relief.

                There’s so much advice about not vomiting all over everybody so I haven’t really said much
                (except here and to some close friends and my brother…hmmm…maybe that is a lot?)
                and after reading so much on this site I was really unsure about even talking with sister-in-law but I did and then I sent a ‘shame on you’ email to in-laws and a terse email to ex-minister

                and I think that’s just what the doctor ordered. Fuck him and his image management. Or delusion. Or reality. Whatever.

                One of my favorite quotes ever is by Emerson from ‘Self-Reliance’ – “you are not an interloper in this world which was meant for you.” I’ve always believed it means that I count. I matter. And I may not be handling this ShitStorm perfectly but STBX wasn’t the most elegant seducer of teenage Asian whores, either.

                He’s more of a pig-grunting rutter, but that’s just my opinion.

              • “One of the things I am doing is to explore why their validation matters so much to me.”

                Chumptitude–I struggle with this, too (but with friends rather than X’s family). You and I have both been on CL for over a year; we know the valid explanation for our serial cheater x-h’s behavior, and their mindfuckery. And we have a solid community here to whom we don’t have to explain our trauma. Why, then, is it so important that we convince others, even when those “others” have stronger blood or practical ties to our Xs? I wish I had an answer because I’d like to start letting go of the need to explain the full horror of narcissism and being a victim of cheating, and to relinquish the need to defend myself as to why I can’t just “let go” of the anger a year and a half later.

                Perhaps we’re used to being believed, and liked, and it thus distresses us when we become neither by a few people? Or, I suspect our distress has much to do with a strong justice orientation. Even without our own pain in the matter, we may simply think everyone should know, understand, and accept the truth? I have an activist background, and giving up on achieving justice isn’t really in my nature (even though it may be more adaptive in these circumstances).

              • Tempest, yes, yes.

                There’s so much injustice in this whole thing. I shake my head at the complete WASTE of time and resources.

                I really regret the time I’ve wasted thinking about STBX.
                I really regret that there are people who waste this life experience seeking increasingly degrading sexual experiences.
                I really regret the money I’m spending trying to extricate myself from this fiasco.
                I really regret “pain shopping” and learning about the sordid layer of Craigslist hookups and interactive webcam porn.
                I really, really regret twenty years trying to warm up to in laws. So many borrrring conversations with a big smile plastered across my face as I feigned interest in another boring account of their borrrrring lives.

                Now I see that it was boring because there were so many dark secrets to hide. Could only talk about the weather or making ice cream.

                And now the waste of time and money on this divorce. Meanwhile, they’re stoning women Syria. WASTEWASTEWASTE

                And the money.

              • Tempest and Roaring, this is such a profoundly healing thread to me, you both highlighted two different aspects that have kept me stuck in anger since DDay:

                As I turned these questions in my head last night and this morning, it became clearer that I have built and derived a lot of my self-worth from three key living principles:
                Data over beliefs – Educating people based on data is the best vaccine, because solid data replaces outdated beliefs and in many powerful ways, data contributes to building a fairer society (as opposed to our world’s history of dogmatic oppression). I have invested many years of my life in learning how to collect and analyzed data, and how to turn that data into recommendations that will directly benefit people and our society.
                Do the right thing, even when it is hard – I have overcome many challenges in my life, and have shown again and again that I can face challenges and find ethical and direct solutions that yes, involved personal sacrifices but all turned out to be the best possible decisions with the info (data is back!) I had at the time of the decision.
                Communication is key to building a good life – Goodness knows how hard I tried to make his life easier, to reach out to him so we could build a good life together as a family despite the stress of his job, of living abroad, and a million other challenges life places in front of all of us.

                All three of my core principles have been slashed to pieces by his adultery and how much of a douche he became in the divorce proceedings.

                That is what I am recovering from. I don’t miss him, I miss the person I thought he was. But more central to my recovery is to restore that the values I had worked so hard to actualize in my life are real and valuable. His choice to disregard them and make me feel bad for them through his gaslighting were so damaging because he was so good at hiding.

                The most damage is that he made me question my core values. And part of my recovery is to get validation about these values, as they are fundamentally good values. The higher the esteem I have for people, the more healing their validation is to me. Which is why his family validation was so important to me. I actually valued his family’s perceptions of me. This comment thread shows me that I no longer do. They have the data they need, and yet they choose to believe his lies even when faced with evidence. Cue to downgrade them to my “uncurably stupid” file. Few people make it there to that file, even fewer get reclassified.

                Getting back to the confidence I had in my values and my core worth after being subjected to that much mental abuse is a long journey, and it is made more difficult by having to expose my kiddo to his twisted world. But thanks to you Tempest, to you Roaring, and many incredibly generous chumps and to CL, I am getting there way faster than I would have been able to do on my own!

                Thank you CN/CL for saving my sanity!

              • Chumptitude, you wrote:

                All three of my core principles have been slashed to pieces by his adultery and how much of a douche he became in the divorce proceedings.

                Well said. Your ability to observe, quantify, and analyze is a large part of who you are. I’d imagine your X was able to engage you intellectually in ways that pushed you to hone your skills of analytics, and communication among other skills. He likely was unique in that ability. It was likely one of the things that attracted you to him. That was certainly the case with me and Match Girl. She unlocked my mind in ways that NOBODY else had before. I can’t imagine you married a dumb ass.

                I gather from your quote above that you were very happy practicing and improving your core skills with your cheater as a partner, teacher, and confidant. So, when it turned out that you had a cheater, all of those skills and core values appear to have failed. When the cheater snuck in under the radar, disabled your shields, and then launched a deadly strike, it felt like the intellectual constructs we had built-up together were being used in a strike against me. MG knew all my defenses and weapons because we created the arsenal together.

                I’m not trying to torture the metaphor any more than necessary, but for the very clever amongst us (looking at you Chumptitude) while it *is* about extra-marital sex, it’s also so much about, as you said, our core values. Spending years with a cheater who gives lip-service to shared values and then plunders the castle when we are weak is overwhelming intellectually too.

                Luckily those values did serve you well. When the time came, you escaped a terrorist and launched a counter-strike complete with co-intel and black ops! And now form this side of the screen, you’re pretty well healed-up and ready for whatever life brings next.

                Reading Chump Nation has completely removed any last trace of my belief in Karma. You didn’t deserve what he did to you. You didn’t *need* to learn a lesson from your failed marriage. Nobody “gets what they deserve,” at the hands of Karma. We all trudge the road of happy destiny. We chose people who present themselves as trustworthy. We live and learn. I quite like the learning part, and now I have more data to sort.

          • A ghost cheater v. a hoover cheater… Hmmm… You ask: Is one really better than the other?

            No, Ian. They both equally suck. They cheated – that’s reason enough for sucking.

            Today’s CL post and your response to mine may as well have been written by Jagger and Richards – “Saw her (him) today… Fair share of abuse… Get your prescription filled… Practiced at the art of deception.”

            Nonetheless, I think MatchGirl is already getting attention from you (albeit negative attention) through the divorce proceedings, so she doesn’t need to actually come and seek it (through texts, calls, etc.). Once the divorce is final (and MatchStick kicks her to the curb and she becomes ExtraneousGirl), she will show up somehow, somewhere in your world. It seems these types almost always come back in some shape or form, at least that’s what I’m learning from reading everyone’s stories on CN. I wish it weren’t true, but they do. And then maybe you’ll see that her silence right now was the best thing she ever did for you (or at least the best thing she did for you during this time). At least that’s how I feel…

            I’m hanging in there. Thanks, Ian. I am in a new place, alone, during a really dark period in my life. This website helps tremendously, though. And I do have a lot of support from my friends and family back home.

            Good luck with getting your dog. She should have never taken the dog in the first place. Bitch. Keep us posted.

            • My ex ghosted, on me and our children. I am looking at a picture of our youngest when he was 12. That was 4 years ago, just after D-Day. Ex has not seen him once in all that time, and I suspect would now have a hard time recognizing him if he ran into him on the street (but no worries there, ex moved 5 hours and 5 states away to marry one of his long term AP’s and group sex partners).

              You can debate sociopath versus narcissist versus borderline, strong chump versus weak chump, rich chump versus poor chump, etc, etc. (See CL’s post, “The Ones Who Just Leave”). And a lot of that chump-wisdom may in fact be correct.

              But in the end, Cheaters just specialize in mindfuckery. Why? Because they can and because they like it.

              • I agree, Kelly. No matter the extent of their disorder, they just suck. And no matter the complexity of any of our situations, we are all hurting. My parents split up when I was 8. My dad was not a narcissist, a sociopath, or a cheater… but he was (is) a very damaged human being (he survived the Holocaust in Poland). I didn’t really realize it at the time, but I am now ever so grateful that I had my mom – a very sane and loving woman who was (is) always on my side and who made sure I had the best childhood possible under the circumstances. Your X may suck, but you don’t. And your children know that. They are lucky to have you. I’m sorry for what you and your children are going through as a result of his mind-fuckery and his extreme (he completely abandoned his kids and he married his group sex partner?!) selfish actions.

            • @Pondscumbgone, thanks for your letter and all of your follow-up post. Best of luck with your divorce.

              @Kelly So sorry he ghosted. And on his children too? Not cool.

              @Arlene @Virago @Kay Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

              All of you Chump’s words carry me through my days.

              Today is not my Tuesday. I calculate my crass memes and foul language to offend, but I hope it’s taken in the spirit of absurdity as intended. Please know that it’s merely a deflection of my pain. A part of me (49 percent? (51 percent…)) is still deeply in love with Match Girl. This morning I miss her. Another restless night, and I was awakened by nightmares of her. While aka may be right, MG might re-appear in my future, I am stifled by the hush she has lowered upon me. There are so many things I’ll never tell her.

              • Ian D–of course your heart can’t go from 100 to 0 overnight; it’s a long, slow painful process. Even after the pain from the loss of a relationship goes, you’re left grappling with the horror of how someone in your very inner circle of intimacy could do to you what she did (I am 1.5 years out, and still amazed at Hannibal’s assault on the marriage, me, and the children–and that’s with the benefit of “trusting that he sucks” long before D-day).

                The mind–both the cognitive and the emotional parts–requires a long time to adjust to large changes. Dreams are a way to process the information, even if you’re consciously trying to tamp down memories. It will progress, then backtracking. While not 100% effective, I found it useful to think, “just ride this through.” It’s going to hurt for a few hours, sometimes intensely, possibly the whole day, but your body can’t take that pain indefinitely and reprieve will come. Use that reprieve for self-care (even 10 minutes a day of “me” time), and the lull in the pain will be just long enough to tide you over.

              • Thanks, Tempest.

                Tracy’s Tuesday celebration has lifted my mood tremendously. And your kind support is much appreciated. Yes, there’s no tamping it down, just let the fire burn and don’t give it more fuel. Thanks again for taking the time to respond to my post. ?

              • Tempest – Yes, this! “Even after the pain from the loss of a relationship goes, you’re left grappling with the horror of how someone in your very inner circle of intimacy could do to you what she did…”

                I’m very much there right now. More or less adjusted to the loss of the relationship while reeling from the knowledge of who he really is and how much of myself disappeared in the last ten years of our marriage, thanks to emotional abuse and gaslighting. And my friends wonder why I don’t want to date.

                Ian – I’ve got those dreams too. Some nights I dread going to sleep because every single night I dream of him and they’re not good dreams.

              • Why date, BetterDays? I’m gonna say it: people who *need* to be in a relationship are not living their own lives. They are doing it wrong. Manifesting happiness by keeping your own counsel and reveling in your own company is mighty.

              • Ian… Your post, it’s pain, is so raw it left me in tears.. I can’t help but feel that it is because you feel this way that it makes you able to support the rest of us so completely (and let’s face it, hilariously!!!) that one day, bad dreams will be replaced with one’s of the beautiful future that is yours…

        • You can have his emails go to Junk or Spam.Same with his family’s contacts. And if he persists, change phone numbers if you must. Or just ignore that section of you phone. Get someone else to delete those messages. I ignore pretty much all of my messages, LOL, as I am getting less interested in unnecessary chit chat as I move toward the big 65. And if you say a message, picture a balloon flying off as you delete. Gone–into the wind! Off to Oz with the flying monkeys. Change your mental set and he will soon be a ghost to you because YOU made it so. Not the cheater.

          • Thank you for the balloon mental image, LAJ. I will use it. Again, you’ve offered some empowering and wise words. Even if you’ve learned it all here, you are able to express and share your insight in a warm, yet firm, healthy, and realistic manner. That’s a gift.

      • Yep. You did it again, LaJ!! This is a keeper in my How to be a Fuckwit Survivor memoir.
        Thank you. BTW, Amazon meeds your version.

      • LovedaJackass – I loved your post and you are spot on!! Our past wasn’t a waste, it’s an opportunity to do some introspection, work on ourselses, see why we chose the person we did, and to fix our picker. And we shouldn’t give the cheater too much centrality and we need to focus our energy on ourselves. I can assure you, they aren’t thinking about us, if at all!

      • I so agree LAJ and thank you so much for your thoughtful post. I was committed and real in my marriage and enjoyed the marriage I thought I had. The real work is within myself to find and fix why I was willing to settle for so little for so long. CL wrote a column about our experiences being real, no matter the cheater being fake. We loved, we cared, we invested our whole selves into these relationships and our families. The only thing we have to regret is that we partnered with people who have no capacity for authentic love or long-term truly reciprocal commitment. That doesn’t take away the joy we may have felt preparing holiday meals, cuddling with our children, the simple pleasure of taking a walk in the park, whatever sweet memories you may hold. I have done a lot of work (and still have a lot to do), but I am determined that the vile, despicable, reprehensible, disordered turd from Satan’s ass from whom I am now free who has stolen so much from me, will not take the good memories which I had a part in creating. I will not allow his hollowness and superficiality and inability to generate any long-term, authentic feelings take away the genuine good feelings and memories that my children and I experienced. That would be letting the terrorists win.

        • I think we need some chump nation men and womens jewelry here. I have a support rescue pets one and a wounded warriors one. Such as survivors or something like that. Just an idea. Am wearing my support of rescues today.

        • I agree, my memories are mine, it doesn’t matter what he was doing, how he was lying or fake. Those memories are mine. I didn’t waste all of those years, could I have spent them better? Probably. Doesn’t negate my life experiences.

      • THIS +Infinity! Thank you so much for your post, LAJ! You described things beautifully and it comes at a time when I needed it.

        The Entitled One has been rewriting history and saying how we were ALWAYS unhappy, *I* never committed to the relationship, *I* was disengaged … and the worst part for me was that he’s taking some of my most precious memories of our times together, of vacations and weekend trips, and claiming that he was miserable and unhappy the whole time and all we did was fight. That’s NOT what I remember. So I’ve gone back to strict NC — as much as I can with kids — and I’ve been trying to tell myself that he can’t steal my memories. Your post was a big help, a way for me to think about not making him central. His narrative doesn’t matter, especially since I don’t have to hear it now that we’re NC again. LOL. Over the past twenty-two years, I got two degrees, had a job I loved, lived in some of the most beautiful places in the world and traveled to others. I spent time in museums absorbing amazing art. I made friends and celebrated birthdays and holidays with people I loved. I became a stay-at-home mom and enjoyed the time I spent raising two wonderful children. I took my lifelong love of fiction seriously and am now writing books. I’ve had a good life … and it’s only going to get better now that I’ve lost 250 lbs of passive-aggressive, arrogant entitlement.

        Printing your post out now and taping it to my home office wall with all the other gems I’ve gotten from CN.

    • I am with you on that CfromF, *I* didn’t waste two decades, he did. I learned and grew, he didn’t. I loved and committed and gave whole-heartedly, he didn’t. His loss. I’m hurt, but I’ll come out of this better off. He won’t.

      • Thank you all for the kind words. But I learned it all here. I take CL’s story about her Paris honeymoon as my touchstone. She was real. Paris was real. Cheaterpants was not–and so his half of the relationship–not. There are a whole host of Chumps who were here 3 years ago who helped me understand that–no matter what he did–I was not going to heal until I let go of his centrality. Years of therapy and I knew that intellectually. It took a chumping and reading here for nearly a year to get it. None of this comes quickly or easily, but this time when we rebuild, our life is on solid ground.

        • Great discussion here, it gives me a lot to think about. I will have to look up that Paris honeymoon post.

  • Oh yes, the OW does have her uses while the soon to be ex is playing waiting/evasion game with getting the divorce done with.

    The Exhole’s OW was a particularly driven individual who did what was necessary to get what she wanted. My lawyer sent several letters after the initial “serving of the papers” and we waited for almost 4 months, until the week before the court hearing, to hear anything. Turns out, they had moved out of his parent’s house and into their own place (4 blocks down the road from me, *face/desk*) and his parent’s had been throwing out all correspondance. Exhole never answered the lawyer’s phone calls. Never hired one of hi own either. I finally had the lawyer call the OW.

    That did the trick. The morning of the court date, she hauled his ass down to the courthouse and (in the words of my lawyer) “loomed over him like a she-Dragon while he signed the agreement”. Apparently, he had been a complete sad sack over me going no contact and serving him with papers. Kept telling OW it was me that was holding the whole thing up because I was so distraut over it all….that I refused to hire a lawyer and it wouldn’t be fair to me if I didn’t have one to work out an agreement. They didn’t stick around for the hearing.

    So yes, officially declaring yourself not a hypotenuse to the world, so nobody has the wrong idea about what’s holding it up, has its used. Sometimes you have to stir it up.

    • Anyone in the midst of breaking away should remember that if your spouse is lying to you, they are also lying to the affair partner. Saddam continued to tell his OW he couldn’t divorce me because I was so hurt LONG after I was begging him to sign, or even just go to mediation. It’s what they do, liars, they lie

      • Dat this is so true. The Limited convinced the whore he divorced me. She kept harassing me and finally I sail, just leave me alone, I divorced him for a reason. She stated that he divorced me and I corrected her. I guess she lost a bit of her specialness in knowing I divorced him.

  • Seriously Nancy! They are already having to spice it up by going to Pondy’s job. And hiding lol. Drama much? Maybe they could have made it life or death situation, by guerilla crawling out of the mall and pretending that Pondy had a semi automatic. Of course there would be survival relations in the parking lot bc, they almost could have died dontcha know? lol. So sad that the clandestine aspect has faded. I’m just heartbroken for the sad sausage.
    PS I’m living your life Pondy. Sigh.

  • This is it, right here: “She’s not the boss of him!”

    Why is it this attitude that seems to drive most of the insanity? I am 100% sure that my cheating fuckwit ex cheated on me to “get back at me”. For what? Who knows! But he felt disempowered like a little boy. After he cheated and I left…he kept contacting me again and again. We were never married and didn’t have kids, so not divorce or custody to sort through. Hell, we weren’t even living together so no furniture or leases to negotiate! Anyway, I told him repeatedly to leave me alone but he outright refused! It was as though he was saying “you can’t tell me what to do! You are not the boss of me!!”

    Ultimately, after a year of documenting his harassment I threatened him with police action. Amazingly, he seemed to understand that loud and clear and finally that was the end of him. (although he did tell me “i will leave you alone now b/c I have nothing left to say”…you know versus “b/c if I don’t you’ll slap me with a restraining order”…still had to be *his decision*)

    But again, my question is WHY? Why is this all about power with them? And what does that say about them?

    I know, I know…I’m not supposed to try to understand crazy…

    • My ex understands authority figures also. I think this is why he never showed up in court and my divorce process ended quickly. My theory is that they are stuck at some point in their development. Something happened to them at a crucial time. I seriously think that my X alternated between being 8 y.o. and 14 yo in his mind. Hence, the reason for the respect of authority.

      • My ex understands public humiliation and I am sure he was terrified that someone in his social circle (or family) would find out about what he had been doing if I got a restraining order against him. Not to mention that would have fucked with his government security clearance forever. smh.

        I know they say that we never know what others are going through…and I think he is crippled by his need for social acceptance.

        • Yes, public humiliation is also present. My ex’s sister (his only sibling) did not know that we were divorced until I told her. His only worry after the divorce was final was when/if it would come out in the public announcements in the newspaper and who I had told that we were divorced.

    • You, me and many others are lucky if our abusers understand they could go to jail and are afraid of it. Many others are not so lucky. Be glad your ex is afraid of legal consequences. Jedi Hugs.

    • Yes! Just saying come sit down for dinner got me “Don’t tell me what to do!” Like a little kid. Everything has to be his way or the highway. He admitted to not being open to suggestions. He has to be “right” even if it’s wrong. And then if you do not comply the bullying and meanness to make you comply or be quiet. No discussion or negotiating – no reasoning. Want to be really frustrated? Try reasoning with them. Insanity!

  • I think what you did, Pondy, was excellent. Much better than what I would have done. I don’t feel sorry for OW cause they chose that shit but it is fun to see the ex squirm when the whores start doubting their truthiness. “He would never lie to meeeeeeee,!”. No, just every other person in the free world, dumass.

  • A sale on fuckwits? A fuckwit BOGO – that’s all we need! Hilarious, CL!

  • Dear Pondscumbgone…

    Take the papers from him and file yourself.

    My wish:

    I wish I could get my cheater to divorce and get it over with.

    She has been delaying the divorce for a year now. She doesn’t come to the table for negotiations. She wants more than her salary in child support (2 kids). I don’t mind paying for kids, but I’m not going to fund her social life with the AP.

    It has been a year. Could have been divorced 7-8 months ago.. but nope. She lives my mommy and daddy (with the 2 kids). She rather spend money on clothes and creams to look pretty for the AP, than to actually use her own salary to buy a home rather.

    My cheater is a narc. She loved to control me, using the kids of course. If SDK didn’t obey, he will be sleeping in the kids room, and she’ll let the kids sleep with her in our bed.

    She left this month 1 year ago, I filed 2 months later. Been a battle to get her to sign / respond. I told my lawyer , it’s time to get court date (going to cost much $$$), but I can’t live in limbo like this.

    • So sorry SDK for your situation, I hope it gets resolved soon and that you have peace. You’re right about filing myself, I’m going to get to work on that ASAP… the funny thing is, he is the one who initially filed (my dday was the night before Thanksgiving last year) so you would think he’d want to get to the finish line… Guess he’s too exhausted, ducking behind pillars is hard work!!

      • LOL @ he’s too exhausted, ducking behind pillars is hard work!!

        Thanks for the support. I would have loved to do what you have done. By kicking him in the jimmy (figurative of course) in front of the OW. I loved it!

        You wouldn’t believe it: My STBXW also moved out and went to lawyer first. She never filed. I filed 1-2 months later when I saw a fb post of hers to the AP (his wife intercepted it and send it to me). When I read the fb post, I filed the next day.

        But since then she has been dragging heels. Responding on the last moment to lawyer letters, delaying every step of the way.

        But that is narcs for you. All about control…

        • Part of me wonders why they drag their feet so much. I mean they ended the marriage with the cheating. But they just don’t want to be bothered with all the consequences, of moving out, having to deal with the divorce, the financial repurcussions,etc. They just don’t want to deal with the situation, so they delay and delay and futher delay. It’s all about them and being inconvenienced. It’s so much easier when others do all the work for them…

          • It’s all about them and being inconvenienced.

            And all about controlling the situation. They want to be the one calling the shots…. they have no empathy. They don’t want us chumps to move on…

            • This is true also, they do not want us to move on. That would mean fewer kibbles and having to find another backup plan. Asshat doesn’t want a divorce. He wants me to finance him and house his mom forever. Because he is so special, anyone would jump at the chance to be married to a man who is shacking up in a room with a 25 year old and cheating on her too.

              • Hopium Recovery – Unfrigging believeable, you’re financing him and housing his mother, and he cheated on you. Why doesn’t the 25 year old take care of a grown ass man and his mother. No wonder he doesn’t want the divorce, his cash cow will be gone.

          • Yes. They want zero responsibility. I assume I will be packing up his things. He hasn’t bothered to for the last 6 months. I am sure I will have to find his mom a place to live too. They just want to have fun. Adulting isn’t fun. <> <>

            • “Adulting isn’t fun.”

              That’s a great way of explaining it!

              I’m going to use that whenever people ask me the “why?!??” question when I tell them that my cheating STBXW didn’t tell me about her secret life of amassing mountainous debts and sleeping with other guys, didn’t file for divorce, didn’t move out until I gave her an ultimatum, didn’t go NC until I forced NC on her, didn’t take responsibility for her debts, and hasn’t provided a full set of financial documents for settlement over a year after I served her divorce papers…

              Why don’t they take responsibility? Because adulting is hard, and they are “special.”

              Why are they special? Because… err.. uhm… *reasons*! 😉

              • Yes, Sephage. It’s a good response when you don’t want to get into a discussion about it. Adulting isn’t fun. Insert pout and foot stomp. They are “special” for “reasons,” you are correct. We are just too adult to appreciate it.

              • @ sephage

                Were we married to the same woman? You describe my situation to the letter. Especially
                “hasn’t provided a full set of financial documents for settlement over a year after I served her divorce papers…”

                That is EXACTLY where I’m stuck after 1 year with the STBXW after I filed.

            • Kellia, yes his mom still lives with me (8 months after he took off with slutbaby). He called me 20 times yesterday and texted me. I refused to answer the text or calls. First to say he hoped my flight was good (charm), then To say he was back in town and going to the house to see his mom (lie, he never left town-pity party), and then when I wouldn’t answer the phone, to say that we needed to talk about his mom. I responded today that I was available at noon (37 min) to discuss. Dreading every minute of it. I wonder which channel I will get. I think first charm, then pity. Then rage.

              • Update: lies, charm and pity today. I apparently have “no idea” what happened that caused him to be a total f up this time, but he can’t tell me over the phone. The majority of the conversation was him lying. I think it might be a fourth channel, or maybe it is the cable/satellite provider? Ya, pretty sure it’s the provider.

                I told him his lying is pathological. I guess the convo was what I expected it to be, with perhaps a little more Naugahyde false remorse than expected. Of course he did no wrong, I just have no idea what happened. And his plan for his mom…..none. Other than I should not get upset with her when I find out she has been out with lying cheater pants and ho cakes.he is not with ho cakes though, of course not. I. reminded him that this was now the 4th time he disrespected my wishes, and his mom doesn’t want to hang out with a slut that screws married men.smh. I hope this story has an end.

              • Maybe you need a plan for him mom that doesn’t involve you. While you might care about the woman and feel sorry about her situation, she is just a giant tether tying you to a cheater. And he gets to play mystery man about his situation and triangulate with you and his mom, his OW and his mom, and you and the OW. Triangles all around.

              • LAJ:triangles all around. His dream!!! I think the call today was more about breaking nc than anything else. Yes, I will need to find her a place and put some money down to make it happen and talk to my attorney about how to structure it all. Yes it has been a tether to lying cheater and I can’t take it anymore.
                I solidified myself with CN before taking the call. Thanks everyone!!

              • Why don’t you pack his mother’s stuff and put her in the car, and drive over to where he’s staying and move her in to his place or the OW’s place. After all, he has the time to devote energy to having sex with the OW, spending money on her, yet is not even giving a damn about his own mother. I mean, you’re not being mean if you do that, he is the one who is neglecting her. Time to take care of his own mother.

              • There is no way Hopium would abandon a decent elderly woman because her son is an asshole. I couldn’t do it either. Sorry you are going through this crap Hopium, Jedi Hugs!

              • I didn’t say abandon. I wrote that he should take care of his *own* mother. So she would drop of his mother where he was, at his place or with the OW, meaning wherever he was staying at. He has time to play with a 25 year old, he has time to take care of his own flesh and blood who gave life to him and raised him.

          • One word answer for why they drag out a divorce, even one they initiated: Power.

            • Tempest, you are right and right.

              I broke NC today and have been having a shitty afternoon. Until all of a sudden, I just got it. He is really fucked up and IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME.

              I think it took realizing his FOO has a lot invested in the status quo was my version of the ruby slippers. Now I can “go home” – and try to find my tribe.

  • Sometimes they need to make their own drama (my XH and his AP/gf swing). When they brought my kids to the same restaurant I was dining at, they blanched and scurried to the other side of the building. The waitstaff got a kick of the look of panic on their faces…and my daughter wanting to go to my table.

  • Been lurking here for months, many thanks to CL and CN. Feeling meh I went to the bar on a Friday night just to get out of the house, I live in a small town. Since my STBX was at one bar I naturally just went to the other. Who do I see? The AP and his wife. It sucks when you can’t seem to get away from the fuckers. Thanks CL for pointing out it takes time and distance.

  • The dragging things out is horrible. You can’t move on and all the money you need to move on is draining away to court and lawyer fees. My stbx is fighting me every step of the way because he doesn’t want the divorce. I am so envious of those who say they got their divorce finalized in months. I filed in November and there is no end in sight.

    • I am so envious of those who say they got their divorce finalized in months

      I feel the same.

      all the money you need to move on is draining away to court and lawyer fees.

      Exactly. Could have spend it on the kids, house(s) .. but nope. Rather throw it away (lawyer fees). Very sad… but what else can you do?

      • Same here. Could have been free and clear in early March but it looks like October…and for what?

        On D-day he couldn’t leave for the bar fast enough – while I was on the floor crying – but six months on, he’s a turtle.

        I’m meeting with his sister today (he sexually molested her for six years when she was a little girl and he was a teenager) – maybe she’ll have some insights.

        Based on reading the stories here, that cowardly behavior (hiding, refusing to answer, refusing to take any responsibility for anything) along with the lying, promiscuity, image management = all of the disordered behavior is just part of the disorder.

        I am stuck a little on the fact that STBX is really not the person I thought he was at all. And it wasn’t like our life together was so amazing – it was unhappy and unhealthy – but the truth that who I thought he was was just a figment of my imagination is hard to believe. To be fair, he had a lot invested in that figment.

        • @Roaring
          Based on reading the stories here, that cowardly behavior (hiding, refusing to answer, refusing to take any responsibility for anything) along with the lying, promiscuity, image management = all of the disordered behavior is just part of the disorder

          I agree 100%.. weird how the cheater/disorders love to control the situation. Instead of just moving out and divorcing they turtle to death….

          • Based on reading the stories here, that cowardly behavior (hiding, refusing to answer, refusing to take any responsibility for anything) along with the lying, promiscuity, image management = all of the disordered behavior is just part of the disorder.

            I am stuck a little on the fact that STBX is really not the person I thought he was at all. And it wasn’t like our life together was so amazing – it was unhappy and unhealthy – but the truth that who I thought he was was just a figment of my imagination is hard to believe. To be fair, he had a lot invested in that figment.

            +1 to this, and I like to add once we uncover who these freaks really are, it’s like the damn breaks, and all the crazy comes out.

            • +1 – “it was unhappy and unhealthy – but the truth that who I thought he was was just a figment of my imagination is hard to believe. To be fair, he had a lot invested in that figment”.

    • Isn’t it amazing how they don’t really want you but they don’t want to be without you either? We’re like a table leg to them.

      • A table leg. I like that….asshat actually said “I don’t want to know what it’s like to live without you.” As he was leaving to move in with his 20year younger girlfriend in a rental house I owned–he just needed a little break. He isn’t with her, he is so alone. Hahahaha. Hindsight. It’s just so hard to believe anyone is capable of such cruelty and deceit, let alone towards someone they supposedly love and married. I’ve learned my lesson.

      • @FinallyAwake –They don’t want you, but they don’t want to be without you –because they still want to control you. It’s quite deranged. No contact is the only solution.

    • “You can’t move on and all the money you need to move on is draining away to court and lawyer fees.”

      Exactly. He took off without looking back on D-day and went NC on me. For 11 months I’ve been stuck here while I’ve watched him party and spend money on all his entertainment fun. Now that we’ve got a deposition scheduled for tomorrow, he suddenly started texting complaining that all the money would be going to the attorneys instead of my settlement…and he would have to file bankruptcy. Say what? It’s maddening.

    • Snake is dragging shit out just because he can. I also filed in November, but he’s obstructed and delayed on the divorce and putting our house up for sale.

      If he’d just fucking agreed to reasonable terms when I’d filed, he probably would have been able to keep the house. But he’s mismanaged assets under his control, lost money, and now has to sell the house. Boo fucking hoo.

  • The mall meetup was a smashup, I am laughing at it for you! How great is that? You sucked all his power right out of him. Hahaha… Love it.. What a chance in a million you had there and how you chaptalized on it. You may not be MEH yet… but shit if you are not MIGHTY! You make chumps everywhere proud.

    • Thank you JackiesDone!! I won’t get a chance like that again, I’m sure..

  • That was awesome!! Not only were you mighty to go after them while he’s ducking and running for cover, you exposed the truth of what he is to the AP. A coward and a liar. Bet that was an interesting little car ride back home 😉

    • For sure!!! They are actually going on vacation together this week (he doesn’t know that I know) there just might be a little cloud blocking the sun now… But who knows, he might be dragging his feet to the court house but he was quite nimble when he ducked!! And what does it say about how he feels about her?? He didn’t grab her and go in the other direction, he let her keep walking forward! What a catch you got there skank!

  • At 2.5 years out from d-day I can tell you that Meh is so, so sweet but it’s a very long, windy, twisty, turny ride and does have occasional setbacks. One must hold on and keep walking, one foot in front of the other, no matter what.

    I never thought I’d get here so you must have faith that you will get there too! And when you get sight of Meh and spend some time in Meh, you’ll know you’re there!


      • Yes, have missed you MovingLiquid. Thought about you this morning and figured you must be fully at meh since we haven’t heard from you. Hope you’re still swimming – and just for fun only, not in any battles uphill. 🙂 I’ve really been struggling with meh lately and I think I’ve been here almost as long as you. Congrats to you!

  • My XH delayed the divorce for one simple reason: MONEY. He made it clear in his responses to interrogatories that all the money and assets should be his, and that (in his mind) I had contributed nothing so he should give me nothing. He told the AP that he lived with that I was delaying everything, that I hadn’t turned in paperwork and finances etc. I was “holding on” according to him, even as I spent money on legal fees to get it done. He liked the control, and he knew that once the divorce was over I would never have contact with him again, and he did not want to give up kibbles.I was still married but he somehow wasn’t. Grr.

    Meh arrived when I realized there were other AP’s out there. He cheated on everybody. I don’t regret the 34.5 years of marriage because I have 4 beautiful children.

    Pondy, you’ll get to Meh when you let go and move on.

  • Well played Pondscumbgone,

    That may not be the perfectly zen “meh” moment, but it followed the one rule I had engaging with the ex (or soon to be) If it had to do with direct business, not digging up the past, it was OK. Plus, what a dee-licious thing to say in ear shot of the AP. You win.

  • Pondscumgone-

    I would have to agree with everyone else here. You did awesome! I’m more than 2 years out and I’m not meh enough to be within 1 mile of the x and owife. Don’t get me wrong because I am so glad it’s over and the drama is gone. Been no contact for about 2 years and it’s heaven. It really does get better and better every day especially once you can cut crazy out of your life for good!

    You are so mighty for not participating in the pick me dance for any length of time. I swear that delays the journey to meh as well. You rock so I’m sure Meh is just around the corner for you! I so love that you outed him for being the one holding up divorce proceedings. How awesome would it be to hear the conversation in their car ride home? I know, not very meh, but probably satisfying.

    Hang in there!

  • CL, please write the pillar-hugging mall-chasing scene into the Chump Lady movie. (You are expecting movie rights to the new book, correct?) 🙂

    Pondy, you are mighty!

  • P

    Do you have your own lawyer? If not I would recommend getting your own. The Limited dragged his feet and I finally filed myself. When he got served the MASK DROPPED. I have never seen such rage in my life. From that day forward it wasn’t about the divorce it was angered inspired loss of the pickme dance. He believed I would fight for him as I always did. In the end having my own lawyer led to keeping my pension and having him pay all his own debt which was much more than mine.

    Get representation and do not share one as the lawyer represents him, not you. Do not trust he wants it over after all these years.

    As far as being the PILLAR of the community he knocked himself off that pedestal. Imagine the AP seeing what a coward he is? Good for you confronting him.

    Meh, will come down the road and it is long, winding, with ups and downs. I’m close with some setbacks with PTSD.

    • “When he got served the MASK DROPPED. I have never seen such rage in my life. From that day forward it wasn’t about the divorce it was angered inspired loss of the pickme dance.”

      Every bit of ^^^THIS^^^

      • Saddam’s mask dropped as soon as I said I wanted a divorce. I wish I’d known, would never had said a word until later. Many lessons learned!

        • X’s mask dropped when we were on the way to a movie. I told him I’d hired a Forensic Accountant to go over our books (no mention of divorce from me). The rage on his face was something I had never seen before. He dropped me off at the movie and squealed away. Probably to go figure out how to expose all the money he’d been stealing from me, so he wouldn’t get charged. He knew I knew something but had no idea what I had on him. Yep, he finally admitted all the secret accounts when I walked home from the movie. He was scared shitless as he would have lost his job had the courts found out. I was so many steps ahead of him! I still laugh about that. Saved us a lot of money by not having to hire the guy.

  • X and I signed an irrevocable mediated settlement agreement in June. Next steps? Draft divorce decree from MSA, we sign, judge signs. Easy peasy, right? Nope. X went no contact. His lawyer wouldn’t return phone calls or emails. After two months, my lawyer filed a Motion for Entry of Agreed Final Divorce and asked for attorney fees. The hearing was set in three weeks at 9am. X signed the decree the night before at 6pm. No attorney fees but I did get divorced.

  • haha. Great post today. I think it’s great to let your cheater freaks new side piece (or AP, whatever) knows that you aren’t the one holding up the divorce. Cheaters always feel so hard done by when they are caught and have to face real consequences of their shittiness. Mine delays too but I have a settlement and a kick ass divorce lawyer who suffers no fools. We’re on him all the time and we document all his delays. Judges frown on that sort of thing.

    As for meh, time, distance and no contact. There’s no magic pathway to meh. I think it takes work to stay away from their crazy and focus on yourself. I avoid places my cheater would go to and all communication is email or text. I can pretty much set my watch to the drama and confusion that shit head creates but it’s almost entertainment at this point. I don’t react. I keep it civil, solution focused and brief. Never am I alone with him, go anywhere near where he hangs out, contact anyone associated with him, or troll him on social media. He’s blocked from my life except for communication around our daughter or finances.

    My cheater freak is all about power and control. I find most cheaters WANT a reaction from you and the more you don’t give it to them the more likely they are to 1) up their drama or 2) ignore and move on to the next victim.

    The best meh is a good life, a healthy life where you are back to doing the things you want to do and being the loving person you know you are. Cheaters hate that.

  • FWIW, I am 3 years out from DDay, and divorce was final December 2014, and I am still not totally out of the woods into meh yet. He’s definitely not in my day-to-day thoughts anymore, and I have been gaining a new life, but I’m still grieving the loss. I don’t miss HIM, but I miss what I thought it was.

    Meh unfortunately is not an overnight sensation. Divorce is an assault on your life, and It takes time to get there. But you WILL get there. As CL said, the pain will end.

    • I just want to respond to everyone at once and say thank you!! All of you, this blog, and people in my life make me mighty. I know the journey has many steps good and bad and that you are here through it all and for that I am grateful! Carry on great Chumpnation!!!

      • Pondy…..this site saved my sanity. I was way gone…. and it brought me back to life. I am not at MEH….it’s been four years. I still see him and want to throat punch him.
        But I dont. Which is huge for me.
        You’ll get there. Stay here….read….learn….grow…heal.

        • This site saved my sanity and time. Lots and LOTS of precious time. In a sea of reconciliation tips on the Internet, I found one place that spoke my language and validated everything.

          Pondy you are in good company here. Your heart is going to hurt for a long time, but we have all gone through it and came out much stronger. I know you might feel like everyone says that, but it’s true. Lean on us as much you need, and start investing in YOURSELF. Huge hugs!!

      • Pondscumbgone,

        1. He came to your workplace to see you.

        2. She’s a jealous bitch.

        3. Are you in a “fault divorce” state?

        4. I’m sorry he hurt you. Welcome to the club no one wants to join. You got this.

        • Tracy, thank you, this site has been my savior, and because you’ve suffered so long, Meh’s arrival will be especially sweet… Ian I am in a fault state, but we agreed on a uncontested divorce, of course, not before I obtained everything I needed in an agreement, which he has complied with and followed. Why uncontested?? My attitude is get me the helll out of there!!! Anyone who sleeps with his best friend of 30 years long time girlfriend and attempts to re-live his teen years has lost their mind, and are not worthy of someone devoted, loyal, and responsible. Glad she is jealous, as a cheater herself, she’ll be exhausted just chasing after him as they hide from the shadow that is me… afterall, he is already making her live my former life by frequenting the places where we went. I may or may not have opened her eyes yesterday, but I did something even more powerful : planted the seed of doubt with the truth. There is no pillar wide enough to hide from that….

    • I agree Lunachick, I’m 3 years out from DDay, 10 months from final divorce, and 5 months of full NC since the last of the finances were settled. Unfortunately, he’s still in my day-to-day thoughts and like you, I miss the person I thought he was. I guess that’s who I wanted him to be so I have to keep reminding myself of who he really is and what he did so I can move forward. It’s going to take lots of time.

      • The DDay, the unknown, the abandonment…it fucks with you. It’s like he died in a car accident. I know that it’s for the best, I know he did me a favor, I am at peace being in solitude, but, well, there’s a reason why I still visit this site. It hurts. It’s a lot of WTF. I can’t wait until I can laugh over drinks and go, “wow, now that was a crazy story, wasn’t it?”

  • My divorce has taken 4 years. 4…FOUR…and we still aren’t divorced. He delayed…delayed….he even delayed the divorce while I sat in jail….yes…jail. some of you know my story.
    The latest delay…..he wants my car license plate. He needs to have it….
    Ummmmm yea. Okay…
    It’s not even a personalized one…. it GRW 5837…. I say WTF 247 should be my new plate.
    It just keeps going and going. Because he put a diamond on her finger 3 months after screwing her….and she is gonna want the wedding…and nd he knows he is fucked for good now. Lol
    Pathetic coward.
    From what I hear….his cars can’t pass inspection….his cows are starving and the neighbor has had to feed them…. and his whore is screwing Co workers at the post office.
    I’d delay making that whore my wife too…. lol
    Asswipes….every last one of them.

    • Maybe he wants your license plate so he can drive his unsafe car and pretend it’s yours. This is probably illegal and might even get you in trouble.

    • Can’t you report him to some authority in regard to starving/neglecting the livestock?

  • I needed this post today. Yesterday was 2 years since I filed and the ex still can’t sign an agreement. We have property and kids, but being in an equitable distribution state it’s pretty cut and dried….I have to pay the whore out and still he instructs his lawyer not to return our lawyers calls. I agree with everyone else here… If the whore he rode in on was so wonderful, he’d WANT to settle it. Instead, the idiot doesn’t want me to move on. We have been separated now for over 4 years now, WTF! I’m clearly not taking your disorders behind back…What a control freak…

    • “the whore he rode in on” must, must, MUST use this.. Thank you!!

  • I love the show The Good Wife, but I’m like 5 episodes behind on my DVR, sadly. So, I just last night watched the episode that aired Feb 14th, where Ruth warns Alicia about her (cheater) current husband, Peter. Ruth warns Alicia that something bad is on the horizon. Peter may love her, but could still hurt her. Sticking with Peter could destroy everything Alicia ‘ s done and everything she WANTS to do. Ruth ‘ s final words to Alicia: “Cash out while you still can”.

    So, a couple things – if you’re more up to date than I am on Good Wife, please don’t spoil it!! But why I post this is it takes you time and space to realize that you’re free to do the “what you WANT to do” part of Ruth ‘ s warning above. I think it took me 6 months AFTER my divorce was final that I could really see, “I may really be able to retire one day now. It’s do-able, it’s foreseeable”. When I was married to Cheater, I’d always worried I’d save and scrimp for retirement, to be 68 and come home one day, for him to day, “Oh, I cashed out the retirement funds and bought a plane.” Me to respond, “How the hell are we going to live???” And for Cheater to respond, “I don’t know. Figure it out!!” He had already done this twice before – bought one $5,000 plane and the second, a $70,000 plane. No discussion, he just did whatever the hell he wanted to. Luckily, I’m still working and FAR from retirement, but it always scared me thinking, “I’m going to be working until the day I drop dead, he’s so irresponsible”. So, I STILL may be working till the day I drop dead, but at least NOW, it won’t because of the irresponsibilities of The Disordered.

    You need that time and space AFTER the divorce to see the skies parting, and realize you’re “what you’re going to do” with your life is now wide open, and won’t be hampered.

  • Well done Chump Lady!

    There is so much good information densely packed in this post.

    I had no idea Meh was impossible before divorce until even a month ago. Duh… Still in combat-mode. No rest until the bombs stop falling.

    I also didn’t know that one of the best divorce strategies is to be completely unreasonable. I relied on her basic human dignity. (Snicker.)

    I believed that, “hey, if I were newly in love (guess what, cheater? Yes, we all remember the good-time buzz of falling in love with your cheating-ass. It feels good. I felt like I could wrestle a grizzly bear.) I would feel magnanimous and want to let my spouse go free.” Nope. They may well and truly be balls-deep in twu lurve, but they must be so love-struck they can’t be bothered to actually sign any documents.

    Finally, I just love Chump Lady’s reminder.

    (s)he’s really used to agreeing to things he has zero intention of committing to (like marriage vows and/or divorce settlements).

    He sucks, Pondy. We are all a bit jealous you had such an awesome run-in with a cheater-in-the-wild. I can’t imagine your pain right now, but thank you for helping me today.

  • Asswipe has over two years to deal with a divorce. He never planned for one asked for one or even discuss it. He was waiting for me to do it. Dicussed it with him several times still nothing. I finally filed and got it done. All that time living with that whore. She was beside herself he was not divorced living with her. The nerve of him! Didnt stop the bitch from sleeping with him or inviting him to be with her! Im sure he lied to her as he did to me blaming it all on me. Even when i finally filed he still bitched about it. She threw him out three weeks ago because he wont go no contact with me. Wants him to have absolutely nothing to do with me including his and mine mom and dad stuff. She got pissed when he stopped feeding her info on me. She has to know what i say and do and what i am up to! He stopped telling her long ago. Will be nice when i take my dogs and finally move and go no contact completely. Thats gonna make asswipe unhappy but its all about making the whore happy she has him all to herself! Bitch fuck if hes happy its all about her! Bitch bitch bitch!

  • As usual, I am baffled by the thinking of OWs. Cheater is dragging his feet and loyal spouse wants a divorce. He lies to you, you find out, and OW makes sure he gets his act together. Why do they want him at that point?

    It’s a good thing they do this and lucky for chumps, but it is so strange.

    Same for OMs if they do this.

    • Guess it’s just like us chumps, they’ve already invested all that time and energy they have to go for the full payoff.

    • Finalizing the divorce destroys the comfortable supply of cake provided by Marriage Limbo. Cheaterpants can maintain an illusion of centrality–stay married to one person and keep the AP on the hook doing the pick-me dance.

  • Pondscumbgone, I love your name. When I was still a bit drowsy I was so foolish as to think you misspelled scum!!! As a chump, I am a slow one!

    Girl, that was a fine, fine move. Ballsy. I think Ian or Tempest will make you a meme. Some lurking and pillars. Let the games begin!

    Never, ever feel shame. This is thee most devastatingly devaluing experience of a lifetime. Survival is experimental. We try things. Some look good. Some look shitty. Just don’t give a damn what anyone thinks and keep on surviving. You have great courage and instincts. Chumps have to be wizards at times and you are a whiz/wiz at this!

      • I can’t decide which I like best: Who you looking at Daddy? Or I’ll save you schmoopie!! Haha. I can’t make memes. All mine sucked.

      • Virago, thank you, after the laughter wore off, I didn’t feel so mighty, which is why I reached out.. It means so much… Ian, you are AMAZING!!! I am still rolling on the floor busting a gut….

    • Virago, this is great: “Never, ever feel shame. This is thee most devastatingly devaluing experience of a lifetime. Survival is experimental. We try things. Some look good. Some look shitty. Just don’t give a damn what anyone thinks and keep on surviving. ”

      But how to actually feel okay and not like an utter failure. I’m a big Tudor history fan and I finally get what Catherine of Aragon probably felt like. And so many other people, actually.

      This realization really sucks for mankind – for me it’s exacerbated by knowing that STBX is using the most advanced computer speeds and “extra” money (i.e., our savings) to masturbate (with all that expensive hobby’s trickle-down impact – STBX’s girl of choice is barely teen) – rather than doing any good of any kind in the world.

      Even an elevator shaft has some use.

      • Roaring–huge Tudor fan, here, too!! Catherine of Aragon was one mighty woman. She did everything she could to resist divorce and save her good name, even at the expense of her health. [However, I do wonder if she should have just allowed the divorce, given how screwed up her daughter Mary became because Henry VIII separated mother & daughter to punish Catherine.]

        And talk about your flaming narcissistic, power-hungry, control freak jerk–it doesn’t get any more prototypical than Henry.

      • Catherine is today remembered as a gracious, holy woman. She ended her days warm in her bed, with her two devoted maids beside her. Quite a bit different from the ending suffered by the OW in Catherine’s marriage! Talk about a Karma bus…..

        • Good point, Susannah! Hadn’t thought about Anne Boleyn’s beheading as a Karma bus, nay a Karma tank.

  • Awkward and so not meh was when one of my casual friends who was not only outraged at the situation but is also a hardcore feminist lesbian, took me out to do a bit of shopping shortly after D-Day. Ex was working at the electronics counter (I think he kept that job for five weeks maybe) and I was going to use his discount since I was buying older daughter a bike. We approached the counter and who’s standing there like a stupid teenager chatting away with him but OW. Apparently ex got very red and started to sweat (he knew I wanted to literally kill that bitch the night he told me) and OW starts scurrying away. But as she goes, she turns and says in her phlegmy, snarky smoker’s voice, “I see you have a lot of stuff in that cart.” implying I’m bleeding her poor true love dry when he wasn’t even paying me alimony then. My friend put a hand on my arm and I grinned, gestured to all the blankets, pillows and new sheets the kids had needed for ages I was able to finally buy thanks to help from my mom and said, “Yes. It’s called taking care of my children and thinking of them first. You should try it.” as she waddled away. Apparently ex looked about five seconds away from a stroke.

    And then there was the time I was entering the court house to deliver my request for the divorce and, being blind, didn’t know she was walking out just as I was walking in. It was only a couple weeks after he’d ran to her house that night and she took him in after I kicked him out, and there I was, carrying my little bundled up one-year-old out in the blizzard and five seconds away from crying over the bombed out wreck my life had become as I entered the place that would help make it final. The guide I was with said she glanced at us, hurriedly looked away and all but ran toward her car. What a coincidence she just happened to be there to pay her son’s latest juvy court costs as her love’s blind wife and baby were out in the snow to finish off the wreck of a marriage she helped destroy. I only wish I could have seen her face. When I brought it up to ex as yet another in a huge pile of examples of her cowardice, he said, “Oh, she probably didn’t even see you.” We were close enough I could have spit in her face.

    That’s the shitty part of living not too far from each other. Odds are we’ll bump into each other now and again. NYC wouldn’t be big enough for the both of us. If she’s smart, she’ll use the fact that I can’t see to her advantage and keep her mouth shut unless she wants a solid “accidental” whack from my cane or good bump from my shopping cart. Ooops. Didn’t see you there, slore. 🙂

    So yeah, not quite at meh yet. 😉

  • Lawyer subpoenad the AP (a principal at a local elementary school). He came up to me in court, “I don’t know why I’m here” (in lame-ass voice). I said nothing, but I think my eyes disapproved.

    Hope Principle SkinnyDip liked her thousand dollar nipple clip boobjob. ((cringe))

    As for dancing, I did take my waitress out dancing this weekend. Lordy, the smart and sweet lady wore black nylons, black skirt and a smooth red top. We danced swing and got center stage. That night was real.

  • Pondscumbgone,

    I love what you did. I was secretly cheering for you the entire time I was reading your post. You got a double fist pump, snort and chuckle for circling back and following them when he tried to hide. What you did made my chumpy heart proud. I lived vicariously through you because the OW (now OWife) in my case put the “attention” and the “whore” in the phrase attention whore. She did everything she could to try to construct a gloating confrontation when she and Ex first got together and she never could because I simply ignored her and the other parties involved were less than cooperative. What she actually ended up doing was pissing people off. That happens sometimes when you’re disordered and don’t recognize boundary violations. There came a point when I finally had to tell the Ex that she might want to rethink having a confrontation with me because I didn’t think either of them would feel good about the outcome. So yes, I have OW knockout envy after reading your post.

    The Ex also was the one to file for divorce. I found out almost immediately, and my attorney contacted his attorney before I could even officially be served. To this day, he doesn’t know how I found out he had filed before he could have the satisfaction of hurting me by surprising me with service. I tried to keep the divorce moving along and suddenly he was dragging his feet. He didn’t respond to discovery on time; he kept trying to circumvent the attorneys and get me to negotiate with him on the side; he kept trying to get me to settle, but I never received a settlement offer from his attorney; it took three notices to get his deposition; when we were supposed to go to trial, he changed attorneys – this divorce dragged out for almost three years. It wasn’t until the OW/OWife started tightening the purse strings and pushing the issue saying she “didn’t feel comfortable living with a married man,” (and I guess threatening to put him out?) that he actually started fully cooperating. The only change was once I lawyered up, he lost control of the situation. When I refused to be suckered into negotiating with him on the side and quietly stood my ground while he stopped paying the mortgage, stopped paying the bills on the marital home, etc., he knew however I felt about him, I was done.

    It is always about manipulation, punishment and control with these people. Talk about the mind fuck channel.

    • Chump Princess, I would think if the whore was “uncomfortable living with a married man” she might have reconsidered that before she moved in with him. What a loon.

      • Whore juice said six months after he was living with her she offered to step aside and let him figure it out. Six months after a married man moves in with her. Six months promising to help him financially. Six months of him still loving me six months later she decides to step aside. She is so full of shit. I call bullshit. A decent moral non pod woman would tell a married man to go fuck himself. She didnt care he was married. All fun all good. As ian agreed with me bitch! She will pay oh lord will she pay!

        • (I think I have “bitch” Tourette’s Syndrome. And a nasty meme-habit. (And dig Donald’s (Snow’s) groovy ‘fro!))

          • Thank goodness you have this rather unique subtype of Tourette’s. The comorbidity of this and the meme-habit is . . . well, quite frankly, orgasmic!

            The memes for Pondscumbgone were divine.

          • You’re hilarious Ian…

            Keep forging on… And may MG choke on her Paxil pills!

        • OW Same in my situation. She was married. She knew my h was married but they were “friends helping each other through a hard time” that’s why she was “helping him fix things” with his wife by telling him she fell in love with him and then fucking him. Because after they kissed the first time she wanted him to work it out with me. I HATE that see you next Tuesday and I hope she and he burn to death in a fire. Or her crazy abisive ex takes all three of them out in a murder suicide. That would be okay with me too.

          Although the karma bus seems to have gotten her she miscarried my STBX baby and then got fired from her job. I’m not done yet with my desire for them to really suffer. I’m nowhere NEAR meh. Not even in the same hemisphere yet.

      • It’s even more ridiculous than you realize. Of course, he was married when she got involved with him. She lives in another state. She encouraged him to retire early/quit his job and move to be with her. She knew she was a minister/pastor when she conspired with him to do all of this. When exactly did she become uncomfortable living with a married man? Her level of bat-shit crazy would have any self-respecting Loon running for cover. When I share this insanity I always realize how lucky I am that these freaks are away from me and not my problem. No Contact. The mental and emotional elixir of the Gods.

        • Yay, that they are gone, Chump Princess. Cheating pastors are about as low as you can go. It really gives Christians a bad name.

    • Thank you soooo much CL and CN as this was exactly what I needed today. Recently when my ex realized that I was done, he went back to prostitutes while “working” on the settlement papers. His last promise was that he would have it ready for me by the end of last week. Of course, nothing. The waiting takes such a toll and I wholeheartedly agree that it’s hard to be meh when the process is unduly delayed.

      Interestingly, my dog became meh during my last attempt at reconciliation. My ex and I both cared for my dog for 9 years, but my dog never really bonded with ex. He described my dog as having “jaded disinterest” towards him, a term he also used in his reviews of escorts. It’s a mystery to guys like my ex how enthusiasm and that “spark” in the eyes of 20 year olds disappears after repeatedly engaging in paid sex with men from the age of 18. Anyways, in the past my dog would at least greet him, but the last several visits, he wouldn’t even get up to acknowledge him. I really took notice and it made me super uncomfortable. Since then I’ve made a pact with my dog – if he doesn’t like the next guy, neither will I 🙂

      • Lol–I’m in trouble then, if I make such a pact with my dogs. The one-year old terrier/shepherd mix I adopted last summer will be around for at least a decade, and he doesn’t like any men (unless it’s as an appetizer).

    • Chump Princess, you are not only mighty, but powerful because you took control out of his hands and rendered his manipulation useless. Pat yourself on the back please, because when you say “enough” you mean it… You took back what is yours: your life. I’m the envious one!!!

  • PSG – you did awesome! Thanks for sharing – it was fantastic and I am sorry that your going through this. But you have already proven that you are very strong and capable. Great job. Keep moving forward sunshine – Meh, is at the end of the hallway.

    • Thanks Kimberly, seems like a long hallway, but I know it’s there and it will be beautiful!!

  • Great post and responses, as usual, C/N. I am confused about why people would delay divorce. I’ve read so much about people doing this, especially from the one who initiated it; first by cheating, and then wanting a divorce. Mine never got around to filing although he specifically said he wanted a divorce and didn’t want to see me again. So, I filed – he hired a super expensive attorney and any delays would have cost him – uh what? $550/hr. He’s a money hound so this killed him to have any meeting with his attorney or delay the divorce in any way. (we were already paying too much for a simple divorce) So, he was johnny on the spot and even quickly signed the paper admitting all the out-of-bounds adultery I had laid out very clearly in the papers. Thought he might deny and delay that part. But nope – he admitted it all without one comment that I was also a lousy wife. hmm. Oh, and his angry signature was SO telling for him to admit that in public divorce records. Maybe we had a different situation but doesn’t the longer it drags out, the more money the attorneys’ get?

    • @SheChump

      I think it depends on the cheater. Some like control, some are greedy (like mine). Our divorce should have been cheap, already sold the house etc. But nope. She wants me to finance her life style after the marriage like I did during (and she is selling it as child support). I don’t mind paying for my kids (I already do), but she want MORE money than her salary in just child support.

      She is living the dream, staying with parents (the nannies), while weekends she can boink the AP. She doesn’t pay rent, maybe little bit for food. Most of the money goes for shopping clothes and looking pretty. In 15 years she never paid 1 dime for the car(s), fuel, insurance,house,eletricity,water you know adult stuff.

      So you see where my cheater is going? Trying to get me to continue funding her life after divorce.

  • I’m sure he feels utterly fucked. 😀 Yep…!!! Good one Pond!!!

    I met one of satan’s OWs inadvertently…she was royally pissed…probably cause he had me in his arms…asshole…actually introduced me as ‘his wife’ (wanted to hurl but couldn’t) … once I got away from him I looked (long and hard) at the quivering (probably with rage) from head to toe live wire that was her thinking, ‘OH! He really HASN’T changed!’ and knowing I probably wasn’t the first she caught him with (BTDT – NO MORE thank you) and I said, ‘Ms OW I hope you and satan will a wonderful evening and life.’ 😀 ‘Bye bye :D’

    I’m sure he felt utterly fucked also 😀 I imagined her saying, ‘What???!!! THAT was your CRAZY INSANE WIFE???? WTF!’

    He called me the next morning and said he cried in front of her cause he loves me and wants to be back with me…and she called him an asshole. 😀 Hey, satan :D, if the shoe fits asshole!!!!

    (skipping off into the Meh sunset :D)

  • A friend of mine has just decided that she will not take her cheating husbands ways anymore. What does CN suggest that she do. Right now they seem to be playing a dance of “I know you know, but since you have known for a while, I don’t know what you are going to do” from the cheater. She, the wife, is basically his “sugar mama” on his own he probably can’t afford the skank he is with. Can she take all the money they have in savings at this time before she tells him that she “knows”. She’s going to need this to start the ball rolling on the divorce, at least to cover the retainer?

    • Here are general rules for your friend, or anyone in this situation.
      (fantastic four) BEFORE saying anything to spouse….

      #1. Seek legal counsel. (Get a few opinions, this should be free.)
      #2. Secure finances. (Collect account info. Lock down credit and run report.)
      #3. Set up support. (In real life, online and counseling/therapists and medical doctor)
      #4. Learn detachment.

  • “…I have to see them again at a family event where I will be the one to avoid him this time, it would be easier with a dose of meh…”

    Nah…you will not be the one to do the avoiding. You got this Pond. You are mighty and he knows it.

    The force is with you!

    • Thanks Calamity!! And you’re right, I think I’ve got this because I don’t think he’ll even show up at the event now… there aren’t any pillars!!!!

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