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If You Think I’m THAT Sort of Person…

creepy_cheater Did anyone see the interesting story in the New York Times the other day about the fake Buddhist monks in Times Square? Apparently, there are a bunch of charlatans dressing up as Buddhist monks and nuns and aggressively pan-handling on the street. Pressing bracelets on tourists and then demanding $20. Badgering people to donate to their “temple.”

Naturally, actual Buddhists (and others) are appalled. Some real monks have approached the fake monks and asked them about the Five Precepts of Buddhism — only to discover that they couldn’t name one. Most of them when questioned just run away.

But this particular tidbit stuck out for me.

One woman dressed as a nun said her temple was in Taiwan, but declined to give specifics.

“I cannot tell you where my temple is,” answered another woman dressed as a nun, who said her family name was Lin and that people called her Little Lin. “I won’t tell you. But it’s not that I don’t have a temple.” At another point, she grabbed at the sleeves of her robe and said, “If I didn’t have a temple, why would I be dressed like this?”


I suppose there are only so many ways to con someone. Being a mark on the street in my opinion is really not that different than being a mark in your marriage.

How many people can relate to that exchange with the “nun”? I know I can.

“I can’t tell you where I was last Friday. I don’t really remember. But really why should I tell you? Are you the Friday police? Of course I care about my marriage. I mean, I’m HERE aren’t I? Why would I be here if I was cheating?”

Mindfuckery is really so unoriginal.

My cheating ex used to do this schtick that inspired the cartoon above. He’d say “If you think I’m that sort of person, you shouldn’t be with me!”

Meaning — how DARE you insinuate I’m some sort of liar and cheat! If I were a liar and cheat, well, you wouldn’t be with me, would you? But AHA! You ARE with me, so ergo, I couldn’t POSSIBLY be that sort of person!

Yes, he really was a gassy gasbag of a gaslighter that one. You could cause an explosion from the combustible gassy lies that came out of his mouth.

I love how the faux nun tugs at her sleeve to “prove” she’s really a nun. Hey, if I didn’t have a temple, would I be dressed like this? 

Yes, yes you would if you wanted to defraud someone into giving you money because they believe you are a nun. The nun get-up is a disguise. The real you is a con. How do I know? Because you won’t answer really basic, inoffensive nun questions like “What temple do you attend?”

Or “Where were you on Friday?”

Of course, being a chump, I don’t want to believe that the world possesses people so debased that they would dress up as Buddhist monks and nuns to shake down people. It’s a much nicer world if I believe that people who dress as nuns are actually nuns. If I believe the appearance of nun over the substance of my experience — the unanswered questions, the non sequiturs, and the defensiveness.

Un-chumping requires us to trust our senses over what we want to believe. This lesson is as old as the expression “a wolf in sheep’s clothing.”

A con in nun’s clothing.

A cheater in a human suit.

This column ran previously. Feel free to comment!

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  • Oh my goodness me !

    When I asked my exH if he was seeing another woman he was miffed, and said ; “Do you think I would be so stupid as to risk my marriage for an affair? I’ve see guys at work do it and seen all the trouble it caused. Surely you don’t think I would do THAT??

    He laid such a guilt trip on me that I never challenged him again until DD.

    This was when he was slap bang in the middle of his affair with a girl at work who was one of his subordinates !!!

    That goodness that lying POS is no longer my problem !

      • Yeah, that’s why I don’t have an affair, because I can see the trouble it caused other guys. Not because I love you or because I have integrity or anything crazy like that, but because it would be too inconvenient.

        Thank goodness you’ve shed that gem, indeed! 🙂

        • Yup, when I (very gently, ’cause I’m a chump!) confronted cheater narc about Affair #2, his first response was ‘do you think I have time for an affair?’ and when I asked him about the specific Schmoopie, ‘have you seen her? She’s not very attractive’.

          Not, ‘I’ve told you multiple times in the past weeks and months that I love you, and I mean it, I wouldn’t cheat’, not ‘I wouldn’t do that to you, after what I put you through with Affair #1’, not, ‘I promised you I’d never cheat again and I meant it’, not even ‘I haven’t cheated on you but I’m tempted, so we need to talk about ending our relationship’.

          The depths of their shallowness are impressive! And the fact they are all so much the same is reassuring.

          • Forgot to say, that of course he was implying that if he weren’t cheating, it was because he didn’t have time or there was no attractive person around to cheat with. NOT because he was an honest person, or loved me, or wanted to protect his children’s family, or any of that ridiculous stuff! And it’s when it finally sunk into my head that to him, love, honesty, caring, integrity, loyalty, all those things that are so central to my life, were NOTHING in his, that I finally let go.

            • Gosh Karen I agree with “the depths of their shallowness are impressive!”

              These cheaters always try to swim in “shallow” waters, they will never know how fulfilling it is to swim in “deeper” waters.

            • Seeing the signs I told my stbx in November – You’re leaving us.
              He said, “Why would I leave when we just spent $5,000 remodeling the bathroom?”
              He left 2 months later.
              Shallow to the core!
              Exactly – he’s ‘not leaving’ because of loyalty or integrity or love – he’s ‘not leaving’ because of a new bathroom. Even the new bathroom couldn’t hold him. Lol

              • Exactly, he’s not leaving because of love or loyalty or family values, it’s the $5K bathroom that is holding him there. This guy is an idiot.

              • We had just added on to the house and adopted a puppy when my X had his affair. Long-term planning is not their strong suit.

              • He had purchased a home with me and left me and my daughter 6 months later. He pays the mortgage though, I made sure of that. 🙂

          • I got. “Her? She’s a troll.”

            And yet he couldn’t wait to leave me home with a baby and toddler–neither of whom were sleeping through the night–so he could go spend time with the troll.

            • Ooh BetterDays, I got “I wouldn’t sleep with her she’s too fat” nope, he was sleeping with a skinny teenager instead. The “fat” one (who was an average sized college student) was just helping him

          • Jackass would mention another woman and say, “She’s hard to look at.” So many red flags there I lost count.

          • A month before the Ex ran off, one of the girls he worked with had split up with her husband and the ex was “helping” her through it. When I heard about it I jokingly said well your in for a chance now that she is single!. He responded “no way, I would have to pay for all her spray tans and make up”. A week later he packed while I was at work and I found him a week later at her place… I guess he is paying for spray tans and make up.

          • Longtime reader, first time poster… God, I got that kind of “denial” too. After she left me for Douche, I stopped taking her word that while she was in love with another man and exhibited dating behavior with him for months, it was never physical. So I accused her and her reply was “Where would we have sex?” I’m like, your reply is to challenge the logistics of fucking? Not to tell me you would never do that. We put a man on the moon; I think you could find a place to fuck… Then late during the combination rage phase / pick me dance phase when I’d curse her out, she’d say “If I’m so terrible, why do want to be with me?” Well I eventually said, I don’t.

            • Geez, I think I mentally blocked some of the crazy shit. I forgot at the very beginning, when allegations of an affair first surfaced and Douche’s wife caught him with some “purchases” not for her, Ex convinced me that the purchases were for his wife but he just hadn’t given them to her yet and if they weren’t, he might be having an affair with someone else, a man probably. Fuck me. Flashbacks.

              • Howdy, divorcedaddude.

                I know you said you were a long time reader. Nevertheless, let me personally welcome you to: The Club Nobody Wants To Join.

                You made it; you’re here; you got cheated on; it sucks.

                Match Girl said the exact same thing to me: “Why would you want to be with someone who is so awful?” Well, I don’t, but you just now gave me the information to see just how awful you are. Fuck it. I’m out.

                And yes, for anyone out there reading and not posting. Post. It’ll help tremendously.

                Finally, read divorceddaddude’s second post chumps in limbo. He mentions the flashbacks. In my experience the flashbacks weren’t able to come until I had been no-contact for over a month. As AllOutofKibble says: No-contact is the way to the truth and the light. Until you get that hopium out of your system, you’re still a slave to a cheater.

            • I was with mine for two years, living together for 14 months, engaged for 8 months when out of nowhere he emailed me and said “I love you but I can’t marry you; I think about my previous marriage and the pieces I have to deal with every day for the rest of my life (*hmmhmm* his kids) and I made myself sick thinking of doing it all over again”…. Um, what!?

              Automatically I knew there had to be someone else. He came home and lied to me for two weeks.. he said he was scared I would leave him and that he did still want to get married, just not in November. Then he went to “Kansas” for work and I confronted him at his office when I found out he was in town. I said, “Are you cheating on me?” He said, “No.” I said, “Do you want me to move out?” He said, “No.” Then we talked about why he was lying to me about being out of town, he said he knew he had disappointed me and needed to be away from our situation to take care of work.

              He came home six days later (after going to Florida to visit one of at least two women he was cheating on me with) and said, “I love you but we’re done.” Over the course of the next month, he pulled out all the stops to be as emotionally abusive as possible. I told him this, and it made it worse. I had found a place to move, hired movers, and made all my arrangements and he still came home to belittle, devalue, and gas light me… then leave. I told him I knew he had to have been cheating and that he was lying about XYZ. He said, “Never cheated. Not how it went down.”

              He said… “If you think I’m so crazy and full of lies, you should be happy about this!”

              I said, ” I am!”

              The next morning he called me all sorts of names and said so many hurtful things to me, then started crying 5 minutes before my movers arrived. He said “I never meant for it to be like this.” He got up and came into the kitchen and was still crying, so I, like a chump, hugged him. He said, “It’s easier to be mean to you to make you hate me than to just let you go.” Again… what?! You are NOT NORMAL.

              I moved out April 1st. I didn’t talk to him til April 5th, when a girl from Orlando reached out to me to ask me the real story of us since he broke up with her for no reason. She had been seeing him for 5 months, she would be in DC and he would visit her in Florida (told me he was there for work). He told her I was bi-sexual and had cheated on him with a woman, that I had moved back to Chicago but he kept my cat.

              I said “I think he has someone in California”… which he did/does. In hindsight, there were a ton of red flags, but he gas lighted me HARD.

              He told me he was divorced when we met. I emailed with his ex wife in March and she said they were still married when we met. Maybe she thought I knew this, but I found their divorce records yesterday and they didn’t file for divorce til Aug 2015 and it was finalized in Dec 2015. So her story holds water: she confronted him in Aug 2014 about his cheating and they filed for separation. Then divorce a year later.

              Last week, the girl he was dating when we met reached out and we compared stories. All of the overlapping and the lies are just insane. I rest better knowing that he is sick, there is something legitimately wrong with him. But it’s still the hardest thing I have been through. Almost one month no contact. Not contacting him when I found the divorce records was really hard. He had doctored some documents to try to prove his truthfulness, but I paid $10 to the state of Colorado to get the real info. And there it is… more concrete evidence of his lies.

              Rant over. He’s a crazy a*****e.

              • Also, I have flash backs everyday and it’s only been a month. Today I was watching “Trainwreck” and there was a scene where a little boy asks his step-mom if he can kiss the baby inside her stomach, then kisses her stomach. I was immediately flashed to when the 6 year old said she wanted the ex and I to have kids after we got married. So many painful memories, many of which are tied to his children, for me. I think I loved them more than he does.

              • Oh yeah, I meant to say this originally, but on the morning of April 1st, when I was moving, he said to my face, “If you think I would have someone in this house today, tomorrow, or even next week, then you don’t know me.” ….

                Um… well, I do. And I knew that he went down the sociopathic path because I was the only one of the women in his life who stood up to him. So grateful to be done with him.

  • Yep, I always felt in my bones that there was something not quite right, but I always put it down to the fact that he was from a significantly different cultural background to my own. Nope nope, cheaters schlep the same gaslighting schtick world over.

    • I also felt that something was not right in the marriage but could not tell anyone exactly what was wrong.I was told he was stressed out at work and needed his own time away from me and the kids. Him having plans that never included me and many overnight stays at his friend “Richards” house. When d day hit according to all the messages and emails from the other women I found he had been screwing around for years

      • Smack in the middle of X’s last affair, this popped up on his phone screen late one night- Voulez vous coucher avec moi c’est soir?
        I started freaking out, because I took 4 years of French, and he said ‘That? That’s just a game I play with her, to guess who sang that song!’
        I told him I wasn’t an idiot! He seriously thought he could fool me all the time about her. I was actually lining up my Ducks!

        • God, they are fast on their feet! If someone busted me in such a situation, my jaw would be on the floor and I wouldn’t know what the hell to say! Of course, I wouldn’t BE in that situation so that’s a hypothetical.

          • Movin_on, I agree, they are quick with an explanation or come back. I’d be like yo, speechless, wouldn’t know what to say or how to begin to take, or I might be on my knees begging for forgiveness and apologizing. Like you I wouldn’t be in that situation to begin with.
            I suppose if I found myself in that situation it would be safe to assume it wouldn’t be my first time lying and more creative with what to say.

            • I love the cartoon that goes with this and “If you think that I’m that sort of person then.., I laughed so hard, I frightened my dogs when I first looked at it and read the caption.
              I’ve seen the exact same expression on X, saying almost the exact same words.
              or just being his grumpy, now I know why, he felt robbed of spending time with his new love interest, missed his AP, they could be having so much fun together, but no.., he’s obligated to spend time with his stupid wife and son who are forcing him into spending time as a family.

    • Mine was from a significantly different cultural background than I, too. He tried to use that to his advantage such as this gem-

      His words in an email (written and sent in the middle of the night) to a ‘old college friend I happened to run into last night’: “I can’t wait to have you in my arms again” actually meant

      “It was great getting to hug you hello after all these years. I hope we run into each other again”

      • That’s such a stretch HATC. Tomorrow would have been my 38th year anniversary. Can’t say I miss the 15.00 flowers I got yearly as if it was a big deal.

        For all the deposits he’s made over the years my best investment was filing for a divorce.

        I inadvertently listened to a message the bar whore sent him and as disturbing as it was it helped me see his interests were limited in every way.

    • Yes, jj, I catch myself wondering what they said in the Stone Age, the Middle Ages, and in Victorian times, and so on…

  • “I’ll never leave you, all other women are crazy.” When he said this to me he really meant “I’m staying with you wife, because you believe/put up with my bullshit and all my girlfriends expect way too much of me.”

    When you have children with a narc spouse, you’ll believe and put up
    with damn near anything to protect your children and not jeopardize their nucleus family.

    Narcs know this and exploit your weakness. It’s what they do best. The Long Con indeed.

    • FBO: “When you have children with a narc spouse, you’ll believe and put up
      with damn near anything to protect your children and not jeopardize their nucleus family.”

      Yes, this ^^. And that is what allowed me to finally forgive myself for putting up with Hannibal Lecher for many more years than I should have. I stayed for my children, in some misguided attempt to keep them stable.

      8 years prior to D-day, after now-X had been treating me with contempt and criticism and grumpiness for months, he called me from a conference in Mexico to ask for a divorce. My response? “YOU”RE asking ME for a divorce? That’s rich.” Little did I know he was with grad whore in Mexico, who had not only invaded my marriage and family, but invaded what should have been a private moment by *staying in the room* when he called to ask me for a divorce. Bitch.

      Anyhoo…I was beyond furious, wanted him to exit my life, and talked to a colleague who was also a clinical psychologist. She warned me I needed to do ANYthing to save my marriage because the children would be so traumatized—that her children had suffered greatly from her divorce (one ending up doing drugs, teenage pregnancy, etc.). I admit that in my befuddled state at the time (then-H insisted there was no one else motivating him to ask for a divorce. ha!), I followed her advice, sucked it up, and agreed to work at the marriage when Hannibal wanted to see “if there is anything left.”

      He then wrote me the ugliest, most vile “conditions” letter–no love, no affection, no remorse for his affair (which I still didn’t know about), purely a list of conditions I had to meet to make him happy (including being willing to consider threesomes, foursomes, and having lesbian sex while he watched). He also told me there was no point getting mad or discussing the letter–typical authoritarian, domineering bullshit from him. I remember running upstairs when I got the letter, having dry heaves while sobbing, wanting SOOO badly to tell him to fuck off and get out of the house. Instead, I dug my fingernails into my hand, recalled my colleague’s admonitions to stay for the children, and tentatively agreed to consider his proposal (thinking *surely* he was just going through a phase and would snap out of it. I never did agree to those threesomes, though I’m pretty sure he had a few during his Adult Friend Finder/Ashley Madison escapades).

      Moral of the story: Do NOT stay for the children. My kids were more harmed by being in a house with a narcissistic fuckwit father than by having one sane parent as a single mother (because in the ensuing 8 years until D-day, when I discovered his sexual harassment notes about the grad-whore affair), I was *not* a sane parent. The gaslighting, criticism, and contemptuous treatment took a toll on me, and made me a much worse parent than I’d have been flying solo.

      This episode is also the reason why I am so intent on changing the dialogue of psychologists and counselors, who often do more harm than good with their ignorant advice (even if they mean well). It’s still 8 years of my life I can’t get back; I had an escape, and got sucked back in by listening to damaging advice (damaging both to me and my kids).

      • Tempest, so well said: “I was *not* a sane parent. The gaslighting, criticism, and contemptuous treatment took a toll on me, and made me a much worse parent than I’d have been flying solo.”

        One of the things that shocked the hell out of me was how much easier things were and how much more relaxed I was with him gone. I’m a much better parent now and I need to remind myself of that over and over because I’m worried that when he circles back to me again, I’ll take him back because I miss my kids SO MUCH. But having a sane mother half the time is better than having the mother they had before and I wouldn’t be sane if he were back.

        • Don’t you dare take that fuckwit back! Stay strong! Learn to fill your time with healthy and fulfilling activities. We’re behind you, mama!

        • So sorry he treated you so poorly, Tempest.

          Have you shown the Swiss friends his letter?

          Lemme guess, the Psychologist you got the bad advice from, she was somewhere on the cheater-chump spectrum?

          • Thanks, Ian–you’re spot on; the psychologist friend was a chump whose H ran off with an AP. She, not surprisingly, had not fared well emotionally after the discard (which is what I think affected her children, rather than the divorce itself).

            I don’t know if I dare show that letter to many people; it is SOOO ugly that the one mega-bad-ass friend I did show it to (one of our very own in CN) couldn’t finish it. And I worry that it reflects badly on me to stay for someone who had written such a letter (if I am completely honest). Chumps get it, but I’m not sure anyone else would.

              • That’s one helluva hug, Dat (Jedi AND Ninja? WOW!)! I second the emotion, Tempest. And I can’t applaud loudly enough for the action you’re taking to change the narrative. Go Tempest (and all of CN)!

              • I’m just a (loud) foot soldier; all credit for changing the narrative goes to Tracy. The RIC isn’t going to know what hit it.

                Viva la Chump revolution!

        • Tempest, I hear you loud and clear. I also stayed in a miserable marriage and put up with years of my husband devaluing me as a woman because I thought I was doing what was best for our children. I KNEW it would suck balls to go through divorce and then try to raise them with his hateful influence from afar. And it has, times a thousand, with no end in sight. He made my fifteen year old cry just last night. Because our son had the audacity to have a different opinion.

          It continues to be an uphill battle trying to raise hardworking, honest, responsible men with the continued influence by their father, who lacks all of those characteristics. Still, I hope that they will eventually grow up and come to realize that expecting others to serve you and worship you isn’t much of a life.

          Getting my dignity and self worth back was worth the financial ruin, X’s continued attempts to control me, and even the teen rebellion. But it hasn’t been easy by any stretch of the imagination.

          • I’m sorry your son is still suffering, ChutesandLadders. I think it’s always hardest on the same-sex child of the cheater because their role model has just been shown to be evil and unstable. Your steady influence will win in the end, if you can survive the teenage years (I know I threaten my DD15 with Valley Forge Military Academy on a regular basis, just to instill a smidgen of respect for the rules).

            Nope, not easy to disengage and be a single parent, but our dignity is well worth it.

        • Absolutely! I told myself that by staying, I could better protect my kids from him. But I was wrong! I give them a better home now- even if its only half the time. They know what they can depend on – MOM.

      • Tempest: Great point. Excellent post.
        After I learned about my ex’s sociopathic infidelity, I went through a time of believing that I should stay put for the kids’ sake. That it would be more harmful to them if I divorced.

        One day, my kids and I were in the drive thru line at a fast food restaurant, and a family exits and passes in front of my car. I watched them, thinking something is very, terribly wrong. The whole group was glommed together in a huggy wad, which impeded the whole group from crossing to their car. The mom was visibly distressed, and the dad was holding her and they stopped twice for a quick kiss, once in the middle of the drive thru lanes, and again when they reached their car. The two preteen kids were holding on to this pairthe whole time, and the situation looked downright odd. The only normal explanation to this would be if the mom had just been notified of a sudden death of someone close to her. I watched this family, and said something about finding this strange, and one of my kids, watching it too, said, “that looks just like you and daddy.”

        Then it hit me why the scene bothered me so much. It was exactly like my family would have looked after I learned about my ex’s numerous affairs and casual hookups. I was devastated, and he always insisted on glomming onto me, holding me all the time and making a show of kissing me everywhere. I realized that the fact that this seemed normal to my kids was horribly wrong. That, plus a few other things convinced me that keeping this sick marriage together for the kids’ sake was not doing them any favors. That’s when I resolved to figure out a plan to get out, which I did asap afterwards.

        • I’m glad that moment of clarity helped propel you out. Kids are insightful little buggers.

      • Count me in this camp… FBO, Tempest, BetterDays. I stayed for the children and did my best to shield them from the narc craziness. I thank God that my ex had his meltdowns with only me late at night. Our kids didn’t witness the rages. I also intervened whenever I saw the slightest hint of controlling narc directed toward the kids.

        I feel fortunate that I was a stay-at-home mom — the kids were with me most of the time. As they got older, they noticed that their dad wasn’t like other dads and that he didn’t respect me nor treat me like other husbands treated their wives. They thought he was immature, self-centered and lazy. They were completely stunned, however, when I filed for divorce as they had no clue as to the extent of the mental, verbal and borderline physical abuse I had endured over the years.

        Our kids were teens when their dad and I divorced. I coached them at how to deal with him and call him out when he was being unreasonable with them because I knew I wouldn’t be able to intervene on their behalf as his ex wife. They don’t take any crap from him! 🙂 They have grown up to be kind, compassionate and successful young adults who are self-sufficient.

        I did not know I had married a narcissist. I was young and not very worldly. Our marital problems started early on and I begged him to go to marriage counseling to no avail. I was the one with the problem, not him… I went to a marriage counselor alone and got very bad advice back in the early 90s. I was told not to rock the boat and not be a nag. He wasn’t beating me, we had a nice home and decent income, and a new baby therefore I needed to maintain the peace and not upset him if I wanted the marriage to work (which I very much did want). My mother and MIL reinforced those notions — they were from another generation.

        Hindsight is 20/20…

        • I too was in this camp and stayed for my children. As adults they begged me to divorce him. He played out his life as this simple good guy.

          Luckily I came away from it with him demasked, exposing himself in the end. I.Made.Him.Look.Good. There is no one left to spackle other than the stick dick sucking whore. We did good getting out and saving ourselves regardless of staying.

          Tempest, that letter as damaging as it is looking back in hindsight will fit nicely in your book. I can’t wait until you take that fuckers reputation down.

      • I never had kids (for which, given my broken picker, I am profoundly grateful), but I was once a kid with a narcissistic mother and an father who abused alcohol and had a profoundly engaged life outside the home involving his work and civic affairs (although no long-term affairs, that I know of). As a child, I was terrified of divorce, and especially terrified at being the next-in-line target of my mother. But that they stayed together was in the long run worse; I never had any sort of healthy role model for relationships and the facade of the intact family kept others from noticing the abuse in the home. The best advice I have is: don’t tolerate abuse. Give your kids a shot at developing standards for healthy relationships. Give them permission to walk away from abuse. Show them what real-world consequences look like. And give yourself a shot at have a happy life for them to use as a model.

        • I agree, LAJ. And I’ve added a large component on emotional abuse to one of my classes (including materials from our very own CL) so that at least 90 students per semester leave with some understanding about what emotional abuse looks like, and why it is a deal breaker.

          I am also very open & honest with my daughters (much to my X’s chagrin) because I want them to fully understand the ugly under subtle emotional abuse, and to never, ever tolerate it.

            • I’m late in replying, but that is awesome, Tempest! I was in the master’s educational psychology program at U of Houston in the early ’80’s, and there was no mention personality disorders or emotional abuse in any of my courses in abnormal psychology. Fantastic your level of teaching psychology and personal experience will help so many others. I have hope for them for the future.

              • Nancy, it must be the difference in schools. Mid 80s I had two different classes that stressed personality disorders. As it turned out that part of my education made all the difference in how I do my job.
                Btw, I think every single law student needs a thorough education in them since judges have to make decisions based on the law AND their understanding of human behavior.

          • I have learned so much here at CN. We spent some time with my son and his girlfriend this summer. This was the first time I had spent any time with her in close contact. He had been complaining about her for a while, saying she was petulant, bitchy and demanding which of course I hadn’t seen only the charming for the public stuff. I had been saying to my son, are you sure? What are you doing DS. Are you being the best person you can be. So when I saw this while we were on vacation, I made my mind to tell him, Run Forest Run! Run from this crazy woman. I could see all the red flags, they were on fire red flags.

            It took me about 6 weeks to talk to him again and I told him, I was sorry, he was right. She was not a good person. I spoke with him two weeks later to see where he was on the breaking up continuum. Well he had just broken up with her that day. She had been cheating on him. It was so good to have CN. I could say, without one moment of doubt. YOU DIDN’T CAUSE THIS. SHE WILL NOT CHANGE, HER BEHAVIOR WHILE WE WERE ON HOLIDAY WAS BAD ENOUGH. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO FEEL BAD ABOUT. GET OUT AND NEVER LOOK BACK. GETTING AWAY FROM HER IS THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO NOW AND FOREVER.

            He did, and it also gave him some compassion for me. He knew before that his father had cheated on me.

            Perhaps we have stopped another generation of this horror. I hope so.

            • You can count me in too.., I had the feeling that something wasn’t quite right.
              This off feeling would be stronger when X came home from work trips. I can’t explain it but something was off.
              One day we were standing in our kitchen talking I surprised myself, then suddenly the words came out of my mouth.
              I asked X if he had slept with anyone while on his trip.
              He chuckled, and said, you must be bored, why don’t you look into writing a novel. you have quite the imagination.
              Brit, you should write a novel, This was one of many times my intuition was trying to tell me something wasn’t right.
              Usually I ignored my off feelings and would brush it off thinking it was me being insecure.
              A few months laster I asked again after a trip if he had been with anyone while away. X burst out laughing, Do you think I’m that kind of guy?? You know me,
              I know my limitations. Do I look like that kind of guy?
              Then another, response to the same question a month or two after, Brit, you’re feeling insecure why? I’m a married man, do you think I want another women in my life? If something were to happen and we weren’t together I wouldn’t want another woman. I’d stay a bachelor, I wouldn’t want to put up with another woman.
              Evidently he had forgotten, or suffered from amnesia since he and AP were seeing each other at that time.
              It’s true we believe what’s nicer and more pleasant our marriage and that our husbands love us
              I’d read about cheating husbands, had heard stories of couples divorcing over cheating and feel so badly for them. I’d think to myself, so glad my husband is a devoted family man, my best friend.
              Not my husband, what was I thinking?
              only the husbands who have I’m a cheater tattooed on his forehead?

              I also believed his almost daily rants on his integrity, honesty and high standards for morality.
              As most of us do, looking back at some of these moments when I’d get the feeling something was’t right, I wonder how could I have been so naive.
              My husband wasn’t the man I thought I married. That was so hard for me to accept. Thank you so much Chump Lady for helping me see the truth.

      • Tempest – this really hit home for me. My son was 3 on my first D-Day. And, I rationalized that it was better to keep the family intact and so I went through MC with the STBX and swallowed his lies. Second D-Day came when our son was 4 and my 11yo stepson had come to live with us. So, again, I stayed… I was the “sane parent”… the glue. BUT it did tremendous damage to me… which, of course, impacted both kids too.

        Still, I feel good that I made it to my stepson graduating HS and my son being 10 (and reasonably able to “accept” the new life of weekend visitation with Mr. Sparkles and #4.)

        Now, for the last two years, I’ve been working with a counselor to understand NPD so that hopefully when/if my son has questions as he gets older, I’ll be healthier and able to support him.

        It would be so much easier if these fuckwits just stayed within their own group and didn’t try to pretend to be normal… so much destruction in their wakes.

        • Let’s face it, we’d throw ourselves on rattlesnakes for our children (oh, wait, we did!). So important that people start understanding that sacrificing one’s self is not always best for the children.

            • Again, another change in the narrative. You hear, ‘dont’ stay together for the kids’ but there is never a really good explination of why that is correct so of course that narrative can’t compete with keeping your nuclear family together is the best thing for the kids. Bugger! one sane parent is better than a family made crazy because it is living with a snake in its midst.

      • What an incredible post Tempest. I am so sorry for how much suffering you went through because of misguided advice, that psychologists and counselors are doing this is as heartbreaking as it is infuriating! Since I found CN, your comments were like finding a compadre who married my X’s twin.

        It will never repair the years of abuse you were subjected to, but know that because of you Tempest and the incredible generosity of CL and CN, I and many other chumps are well on our way to Meh, THANK YOU!

      • Tempest,

        That is the worst. To be abused in such a fashion and be told bad advice. I’m so sorry that you had to deal with living in an intolerable situation but for also being told you should continue to stay there.

      • Excellent additions to your classes, Tempest! Ha – I slay him in my head regularly.
        The first night my asshole X left our house, my then 4 year old son noticed me crying and said, “I’m going to tell Dad to quit being so mean to you.” It finally dawned on me how much he had witnessed and perceived. I’m still trying to forgive myself for picking such a covertly manipulative father for my son whose influence I cannot control. Why did it take such devastation for me to see that I had chosen this type of guy repeatedly throughout my dating life? Starting to view DDay as a gift of knowledge.

        • I wish there was a “like” button. Your and your son are going to experience some amazing freedom throughout the coming years.

      • You’re so right Tempest I was putting up with anything to keep our family intact and maintain what I perceived as our happy family. Looking back at the situation I was doing the work while X couldn’t have give a shit. X made me feel that I was inadequate so I would try harder while he tried less and held more contempt for me. I was like a little Chihuahua dog jumping, jumping, jumping for what ever crumb he might throw at me.
        His dark moods and moping around, smart ass remarks, jokes at my expense and me avoiding all confrontations as not to upset the balance is not a role model of a healthy marriage and certainly not a healthy environment for a child to grow up in.
        Although I was upset the day X walked out of our home at the same time I could feel the tension gradually leave my body and mind.
        I wanted save our marriage and family so badly I was sacrificed who I was and my self respect.
        Sad that I blamed myself for his moodiness and accepted the blame for the demise of our marriage.
        Wasn’t sure what I did wrong. I spent so much time picking apart conversations we had looking for something I said or did for X to want to leave.

  • It’s all DARVO. Denial, Anger, Reverse Victim and Offender.

    “No you’re WRONG!…. What, are you STUPID?!… How COULD YOU think such a horrible thing about me, how DARE you!”

    Plus Duper’s Delight, plus Doubling Down. It takes a certain kind of anti-social personality disorder that causes a person to feel great delight in duping people — nasty, cruel, manipulative, non-empathetic. They LOVE this.

    It takes precisely that same kind of anti-social personality disorder that causes a person to take excessively wild risks, and when called to account, they refuse the wisdom of reining themselves in and they just double down on the whole situation. More fun, more frolicks — in their weird frontal-lobe mis-firing brains. They LOVE this too.

    People like this should be sectioned. They really should. For the good of society.

    • The smirk they give you is a tell-tale sign of Duper’s Delight. So delicious, so superior.

      • Ah yes. The smirk. One day my stbx tried to have sex with me before taking off to the Hyatt to meet OW. I told him no he’s not going to use me. Flash of the smirk.

      • Oh that smirk. I had never seen that smirk until dday. He was so self satisfied with what he was revealing to me. With each detail he smirked and I died a little more inside. He had a lot to say. He had been busy for our 30 years together. In 20 minutes he destroyed my world. He enjoyed every minute.

  • When I snagged him in yet another lie, he was appalled his integrity would be questioned.
    Me: Where were you tonight
    Him: At the bar all night
    Me: Went by several times and your car wasn’t there
    Him: Oh so this is how it is, you are checking up on me (gaslighting- didn’t even know it was a word at the time). What, you don’t trust me?
    Me: Well, you don’t seem very trustworthy
    Him: storms off into the other room

    Now that I have been enlightened to his bullshit, this actually makes me smile. So glad he is the other woman’s problem now. Lying asshole!

    • ^^^THIS^^^ Mr. Sparkles looked me in the eye and said, “I’m going to shoot pool.”

      The universe led me to find a hotel room receipt for the exact same night.

      When I confronted him, he immediately countered with “I left before the hooker got there. It was my first and only time!”

      Geez – if only I had that kind of timing and luck… think I would rather use it on buying the winner Powerball Ticket instead of finding him at a hotel.

      Good luck #4… he’s a keeper.

  • My ‘beloved’ told me he loved me and would never cheat on me a half hour before I discovered his affair. Then suddenly it became I am not in love with you and want out.

    It’s only been ten days, but I am sure he got off on the lying and watching me doubt my sanity. I have/am accepting that the guy I thought I married probably was a sham the whole time. And whatever the hell is fundamentally wrong with him – well, I am better off without it.

    Cheaters gonna cheat, liars gonna lie, but chumps get to choose to get off the crazy train.

    • Calm, welcome to the club nobody wants to join. Chumplady is your safe space.

    • I’m sorry, Calm. You’re in the worst of it. Deep breaths, pace yourself through the pain and rage and mindmovies. It will be horrible, just live through it (even though you’ll feel as if you don’t want to), and push ahead to the other side. And get as much social support as you can while you line up your financial ducks. Big hugs to you.

    • Yes Calmafterstorm, These cheaters with “I am not in love with you” – No shit Sherlock! If you truly loved me you wouldn’t be cheating. Thanks for telling you loved me just an hour ago though, WTF.

      ALL cheaters CAN’T and NEVER will be able to transition from “in love” to a more true long lasting love. It’s much easier for them to keep chasing the high of a new fuck-buddy. Cheaters just don’t have the capacity to take an introspective inventory of their own bad character traits. Because of that they will continue to cheat. Shallow people chase shallow things.

      • My first husband was the same as my selfish entitled ‘victimized’ stbx. Yes, my picker is very broke. But he had said he was in love with love.
        They can’t love people.
        Yes – it’s chasing the high.
        In love with the high and too shallow to go anywhere deeper when the high is over.

        • ChumpNoMore- I wish these assholes would just learn how to swim, LOL. Start in the shallow and learn then go deeper as a natural progression. But then again it’s hard for these cheats to swim when their heart is of stone.

    • Calm, sorry you have joined our club. You are so far ahead of the game already just by finding CL so soon after Dday. Keep reading and posting, you will find no better advice or support than here. Be very good to yourself, you did nothing to cause this, and you need your strength to get to the other side. ((Hugs)).

    • Ouch, Calm.

      How is the no-contact going? Do you have kids with this cheater?

      Leave a cheater, gain a life.

    • Calm,

      Big hugs. You can and will make it through to the other side. I remember my first post and the support from this group was and is amazing. My suggestion is to find one or two really good people to be your “in person” support system and use Chump Lady. When you are feeling weepy, needy, hopeless, useless, and even glad, happy, etc., get on this site and read past posts that seem applicable. It will help you to know that you are not alone, we are all in the same boat of betrayal, and we are here for you.

      • and get on to the forums (top right corner of this page) to post for individual help at 2 a.m., when some members of CN are likely to be on-line, too!

    • Calmafterstorm – Welcome to CN, and I am so sorry for what you are going through! It is a heart wrenching experience to find out that our spouse is very different than the person we thought s/he was.

      I am glad you found CN, please keep us updated about your next steps, and use the forums to get the support and knowledge you’ll need to untangle yourself from your cheater.

      My cheater’s “I love you” did not mean what I had hoped… Instead, I understood that his “I love you” is more like “you make me look good.” And when the mask fell off and I sang like a canary about his affair, I became enemy #1.

      Through CN, I learned how to use No Contact (NC) and Gray Rock to help with my recovery and minimize the damage he was more than willing to continue inflicting on me.

      Read as much of the archives as you can, get all copies of financials and other important/official documents, and keep yourself (and kids if you have any) safe as abuse increases when the abused spouse is leaving. Two books I highly recommend are Lundy Bancroft’s “Why does he do that” and all the books by Bill Eddy on divorcing someone with a high conflict personality.

      Stay save Calmafterstorm!

  • To me, this was one of the hardest truths to grasp. How could he (and they) be okay with doing what they did? And worse yet, how could I have been with someone who was apparently okay doing what he did for six fucking years? All the usual damage aside, I felt so humiliated that I put in all this effort when I may as well have tried to coax caring and compassion out of a cardboard standee.

    But much like those shadey “monks”, he had lots of stories to tell. “I’ll be up to bed in a bit. She just wants to talk about work for a minute before she goes home.” or “I know you don’t want to lend her that money, but she’s our friend and she bounced again this month and asked me if I would help…” as a huge fight ensues or my absolute favorite, “I know you’ve had a really hard day, the post partem depression is kicking your ass and you just want to cuddle. And we will as soon as I call her back because she wants to talk about something important that happened today at work.” as I fell asleep on the sofa, listening to him chuckle and agree with her rambling escapades that day in the office while I lay crying and alone just a few feet away.

    The proof is in the pudding and I’d been swallowing Bullshit Surprise flavor for far too long. He is a disordered asshole, she’s a disordered asshole and yeah, it hurts and sucks, but at least no one’s abusing me and the kids with them gone… Well save for custody visits, but even those can be dealt with in time. A dear friend of mine happens to be a Buddhist monk who previously got a degree in psychology, and I talked to him at great length about why all this was happening and how I could hurry up and get through it. He said it’s happening just because it is, and the only way to get through it in the appropriate time is to just let all of it happen, love myself and know I will get through it and it will be so. And it is. The more I try to figure it out, the less I seem to understand. So I’ve stopped trying and just put one foot in front of the other.

    And apparently asshole comes in many, many flavors. But those who take advantage of people by falsely representing spiritual leaders really piss me off. It’s a rant for a different site, but just goes to show that there are narcs and fuckups everywhere you turn, which is really rather scary if you think about it. The person performing your wedding ceremony to a narc asshole could, in fact, be a narc asshole dressed up as someone who’s supposed to be caring and compassionate.

    Doesn’t do much for my attempts to talk myself out of moving to a cabin far in the woods somewhere.

    • If you need cabin time, I don’t think anyone would blame you. How can you help but be furious and want time alone when your husband abandoned you to your PPD?

    • I know; it took my oldest daughter saying “He’s a sociopath,” before it sunk in to me.

    • “He (monk friend) said it’s happening just because it is, and the only way to get through it in the appropriate time is to just let all of it happen, love myself and know I will get through it and it will be so. And it is. The more I try to figure it out, the less I seem to understand. So I’ve stopped trying and just put one foot in front of the other”.

      This!! Love this, CakelessinKalamazoo….thanks

    • CinK, I’d be up for that rant re false spiritual leaders, as MoFaux was SO attracted to them. Insisted that we know them, invite them to speak, stay in our HOME (!!!!!) and contaminate our community and my precious home. I couldn’t understand it or tolerate it.

  • A cheater in a human suit. Love this CL.

    She kissed me!
    I heard that at least 5 times over the years. He was just irresistible.

    Those aren’t my condoms in the trash. Someone else put them there.

    The biggest con was the poems professing his love.

    I didn’t want to believe…

    I’ve been reading up on pathological liars. This was the first red flag I missed.
    The trickle truth made me believe.

    Telling you wife you love them while in bed with a.whore? Yes she is the special one now.

  • This exactly. My Now Ex repeatedly would say, “if you think I’m that kind of person….you don’t trust me…..I am a bad person…I would purposely do that do you…on and on, you shouldn’t be with me. My favorite excuse for his serial cheating….after telling me for 10 years he was a non sexual person who had ED, “I was just seeing if I could get an erection!” Oh, he could…just only with other disordered fuckwits like himself.

    My most recent DD, just before I finalized the divorce, he swore on Jesus Christ he was a changed man, not the animal he had been, but in his heart he alone knew the truth of how he was changed, not seeing anyone or talking to anyone…not even masturbating to porn, but a new person….then when caught 12 hours later mixed up with six different women, and a back pack full of pills for sexual performance…when asked about the earlier statement, “well, he still felt justified about his statement, as he was only having relations online…not in person…..that was a lie too.

    Deny Deny Deny…even when caught red handed….then the whole, “what do you expect from me?” Um, I dunno, maybe at this point, the truth? Nope, totally not capable. I expect that you are who you’ve been showing me you are, and trust that you suck.

    • I get this. When my EW admitted to an affair with her former boss, she swore on the lives of our children that it was 12 to 14 months (later, upon reflection, amended to only 10 months) and that she had not had any other affairs during our 20 year marriage. She emphasized, “Why would I lie now?” Totally (and stupidly) believed her. Three weeks later she admitted another lengthy affair seven years earlier with another co-worker.

      A year after our divorce, and after she had immersed herself into church, she sat for three hours telling me that she had now told me the whole truth about her affairs during our marriage, and that the one with her boss was truly only 10 months. She again said. “why would I lie now?” I remembered those exact words from two years earlier.

      Turns out, the affair with the boss was close to five years. It just makes my head swim. Still the same person; still thoroughly convincing; still lying through her teeth. Dear Jesus.

      • THIS EXACTLY!!! I found an email my husband sent me two years ago, BEFORE I knew he was a serial cheater….I had questioned him via email about why he never answered his phone or returned texts accordingly to me, also why he seemed more then happy to live a celebate life…he responded in typical sociopath fashion, “Do you think I am doing this on purpose? Or I know why I act this way…honestly Jen, you act like I’m doing these things on purpose! What kind of person do you think I am? Of course he knew exactly why, what and who he was….I can’t believe I lived like this for 14 years, feeling guilty for questioning his actions and trying to understand how he could not know why he was acting the way he was. But he was a VERY good liar, as his psychotherapist can attest to that as well.

        Now I just try to take it one day at a time, breath…and work through the pain of such utter betrayal. I never thought I could be so flattened,and that it hits you like waves crashing and receding…all those tainted memories and the lies that went with them, and the casual way he thinks, hey, let’s be friends! Your my only real friend you know. As if that was a gift they bestow on us. Sorry, I don’t keep friends who lie and cheat on me. ?. Looking soooo forward to the day of Meh!

  • my ex was constantly accusing me of affairs or prior sex acts with men who would even look at me in passing on the street. I would come home from work and he would accuse me of having sex while I was at work. Thing is after berating me and calling me all kinds of names but mostly whore,he would have sex with me . Naturally I would not be interested but in his mind it validated his accusations. If I didn’t want sex with him it was because I was having sex with someone else.

    So , I would in my defense ask him if he thought I was capable of doing all of these things why would you want to have sex with me? I would tell him that if I wanted to be with someone else, I would not be with him. So I’ve said these same things listed in the article. I never cheated on him ever. I found myself constantly defending my honor only to catch him coming out of a women’s house 3 cities away at 2:30 in the morning. Of course it was because I was fucking around on him that he was forced into this other woman’s vagina right??! I’m sure the clues of him fucking other women throughout our 6 year relationship were solid proof in retrospect. What really fucks with me is that in his mind he was caught once, so it only happened once and he was only doing what I was doing to him. It’s been a year since d-day and I still feel sad and a bit embarrassed that he may really think I was the one cheating…I do know what he thinks shouldn’t matter but it still fucks with me bad. I think I ventured off topic, sorry.

    • loridachump, it makes sense that you would say all those things the real cheaters would say. That is why it seems so believable.

    • loridachump-

      Don’t feel bad. The ex would accuse me of cheating every now and then. He once left our children home alone at 11:30 at night (they were 5 and 8 at the time) to “catch” me at work because I was late coming home. He tore into the parking lot like a bat out of hell while I sat on a picnic table, drinking water with 3 other women kind of gossiping about the week of work we just had. One of my most embarrass moments as an adult when he started yelling at me like I was three years old.

      He consistently went through my purse and any of my other personal belongings to “catch me.” I thought he was insecure and I had to put up with it because at the time the kids were young and I was only working part time.

      Anyway, when I found out about his affair I started seeing a shrink. The shrink told me that cheaters often project their behavior onto other people. They accuse them of doing the thing they’re doing because they just assume their shitty character is the same character everyone else has. He told me the ex probably had multiple affairs over the course of our marriage.

      He also pointed out that I was guilty of projection. I projected my values onto the cheater when I thought he would do all the right things during wreckonciliation. As it turns out, I was just as wrong as the cheater asshat.

      Don’t feel bad!

      • THIS. “He also pointed out that I was guilty of projection. I projected my values onto the cheater when I thought he would do all the right things during wreckonciliation. As it turns out, I was just as wrong as the cheater asshat.”

        Yes! I’ve spent most of the last year coming to terms with how I projected my values, my way of being in the world, and my definitions of “love” and “soul mate” onto The Entitled One. And I was shockingly wrong.

      • After I kicked out my fucktard (Dday #3) he kept saying “we just see the world differently.” Meaning = I give myself permission to be a serial adulter because I know my values aren’t the same as yours.

        This was one of my biggest lessons and also my biggest source of pain. I couldn’t understand how he could hurt me like that because I would never do that to him. Projection of my values.

        • Yep. I think this is part of what keeps us stuck. Our brains WILL NOT compute how someone could behave the way they did and make the choices they do. Our values make it incomprehensible. And we think they’ll come to their senses until we finally accept that the person we loved is an asshole.

    • Projection, projection, projection….it’s in the cheater handbook, you can find it under the chapter called Projection, LOL

      I remember my now ex-wife has done that to me also. I never cheated nor I wouldn’t even entertain the thought of it. My radar for other women was turned off during all the years I was married because I loved my wife the way she deserved to be loved – and she knew that.

      I remember her coming to me and questioning a “white” stain on my blue boxers, insinuating the nasty. I actually laughed because anyone that has seen bleach stains knows that this was a bleach stain. I was rather insulted. To prove it to her I ran the boxers through the wash and when finished – sure as shit – there it still was- the bleach stain. She didn’t apologize, heck no, just projected her whore-like-nature on to me.

      In retrospect, it seems as I was doing some sort of sick-pick me dance even with laundry. I have been so happy without her in my life!! Also I know how to do laundry without bleaching my shorts, LOL

    • I was accused of a one-night-stand with his friend 16 years ago. Then apparently it was an ongoing affair. Then I found out I was cheating with my boss. The fake affair I had 16 years ago was constantly thrown in my face. It was fairly recent that I had found out about it being ongoing and having the affair with my boss 12 years ago. Funny thing is – as Tempest pointed out a few weeks ago – Judas tends to text me and want to get together. You know, go out for picnics, have dinner together…. It is rather strange why my X would want to be with me – the bitch wife who cheated on him and made his life so damn horrible. WTF?

      • LadyStrange–perhaps he feels he has to do the pick-me dance against your boss? SMH

        • X boss. He fired me after I asked for a raise…(I was seeing my male co-worker getting $1.00 raises when I was getting .25 for 4 years, yet our ‘jobs’ were ‘worth’ the same amount when I started!) And as far as both my boss and the ‘friend’ I had affairs with – I told my X “If I’m going to cheat on you – give me a little more credit than that!” ISH. Little does my x (apparently) know I do have morals. And standards!

      • Picnics and dinner! Cripes. I know we talk about image management, but I don’t think that’s what this is. This probably has more to do with his addiction to manipulation and abuse — it’s like heroin in their veins, and they’re always on the lookout for a top-up. If you endured his manipulation and abuse in the past, he’s thinking you might still be up for it now. So he’s just checking. See if he can dress it up as ‘nice evening out’, but then plan to serve you up a few more turd canapes to eat as he watches.

  • Cheatertalk : “I can’t be so bad if you’re still with me”.
    Chump: “ByeBye” (after several DDays because I was smoking the hopium pipe).

  • 1. Famously spoken words during what I later learned was one of her long-term affairs, “Either you trust me or you don’t.”

    2. In response to my question, “If there was ever anyone else, you’d tell me wouldn’t you?”, she jumped to her feet and indignantly stated, “How dare you accuse me of cheating!” (She never answered the question). She was a serial cheater exposed after 20 years of marriage.

    She was always SO indignant. My God, why did I not trust my instincts. Divorced now for just over a year, but the devestation she has left in the lives of the kids and I looks like a Tsunami.

    • That’s rough, JK. Glad you survived.

      It was only after a month or so of no-contact that I was able to evaluate my marriage. Someone here, Muse I think, helped me look at some of the blameshifting match girl did to me. I only had one d-day, but looking back, there was at least one other previous dude. When a cheater says, “I haven’t been happy since XYZ, that’s the narcissist peeking through. That’s either the first time they cheated, or at least a nod to their own internal strife. (May be too generous to term it “strife.” That implies a conscience.)

      • Thanks, Ian, and I’m sorry for what you have gone through too. I hate this shit for all of us, and for those who will be chumped down the road. It’s just all so unnecessary and cruel.

        It’s an interesting observation you make – how things become more clear after going no-contact and you get a little distance, and counseling. I agree with your evaluation, but what a high cost we paid for a degree in an area of specialization we never wanted.

        I had only one D-day too, but learning of the length and numbers of affairs that had taken place before I found out was devastating. She did not even tell the whole truth when she was explaining them. For example, a supposed 10 month affair was actually five years, and so on, and I just learned that piece of information a month ago (two years since her “disclosure”). I get that you rarely get the entire truth. Commonly, there were more APs or an affair was much longer than admitted.

        • …(W)hat a high cost we paid for a degree in an area of specialization we never wanted.

          Big hugs to Chump Lady today. Her article spurred a discussion that turned into a post-doc-level course on gaslighting. I haven’t bothered to look, but I’m certain there’s nowhere else on the web one could find such information.

          Kellia, love your new questioning tactics. Ima steel ’em.

          LadyStrange, you said:

          Then I found out I was cheating with my boss.

          You found out you were cheating? Wow, he was so good at gaslighting you that you didn’t even know you were cheating. ?

  • One of my really dark days came after a few months of the ex treating me like garbage. I’d finally got up the courage to try and have a real discussion on why we weren’t “us” anymore, to learn my offense that’d caused him to suddenly be so cold towards me. I approached him and I said something about how hurt I felt it seemed he’d quit being loving with me, and he went off. He yelled, “I’m still HERE, ain’t I?!?!” And then, he left the house for a while, presumably to tell his Schmoopie all about his demanding wife who’s accusing him of neglect and emotional cruelty.
    It was my divorce attorney the next year who’d pointed out to me guilt can come out as anger. I didn’t believe it, even then. I am a believer NOW.

    • If they felt guilt, the weight of the guilt would eventually get them to stop.

      I’m with George Simon on this–there’s no guilt, only fear of getting caught or being forced to engage in adult behavior.

      • Not even the weight of the world could get them to stop. I’ll bet the weight of the direct impact of an asteroid-strike would do the trick.

        • Drones with cameras and recorders would be more fun. Eventually they’d go nuts trying to avoid the drone. probably start shooting into the sky, could add a voice to the drone so it laughs at them every time it gets a good pic

          • It seems like you don’t really like him very much anymore, Dat. ?

            Elaborate revenge fantasies – one of the only benefits of being a chump.

            • Elaborate revenge fantasies are the best. My favorite is to pay for an ad on a big ass billboard of the two of them next to their work site. It would post their pictures, full names and a picture of an actual prescription bottle. It would say that “His dick may be fixed, but Viagra can’t fix corrupt cheaters.”

      • Or maybe guilt as “consciousness of wrongdoing” and awareness that getting caught is a possibility.

        • I’m thinking that it’s remorse they don’t have–they don’t regret although they know they are doing “wrong.”

          • LAJ, That was a literal Day 1 red flag I missed. First date, getting to know each other talk she busts out “oh I have absolutely no regrets about my life”. She meant it too, because the associated feelings don’t compute for her robot brain. SYNTAX ERROR. Today that would set off a WWII Era air raid siren in my head.

      • And even the fear of getting caught gets them off. Freaking freaky freaks, the lot of them.

    • Ah yes, THIS, Get Out, my ex too was always angry when he came home. It was there under the surface. When I said something about it, he would deny, DENY, deny, and tell me I didn’t have a clue… I guess if you don’t acknowledge real feelings you can eventually screw over your entire families, which is, of course, what these people do.

      • They have to devalue spouse and kids to do what they do, and anger at imaginary slights will aid in that devaluation.

    • Wow Get Out Yo Seat… I never knew that…no wonder satan was always so angry!!!

    • My EW told me she was ashamed of her cheating, “but not enough to stop.” She was a serial cheater over a 20-year marriage. Five years with one AP (another boss). She was also ashamed when it all came out, but not enough not to make a fair deal when I divorced her. Whatever being ashamed means to her looks more like, “I’m aware that what I’m doing is wrong, but I don’t care. I’m going to have what I want anyway.”

        • Yup, pure impression management. They really need to expand the Oscar categories to honor the magnificent performances of cheaters as normal human beings.

          • I couldn’t agree more Ian and Tempest. The shame certainly did not manifest itself in any meaningful way in terms of her behavior during the marriage, divorce, or now (we have kids, one minor). I pointed out to her after D-day that her deception of me during all those years – the highly offended denials and explanations that were so convincing – was deserving of an Oscar. She responded by saying that she had actually considered becoming an actress at one time. She’d have made a good one.

          • Can we have our own Oscars? We can pick Best Role Played by a Cheater, Best Served Shit Sandwich, Stupidest lie told most convincingly, AP with the best costume, etc. We could call it the Sparkly Turd trophy.

            • lol “And….the Sparkly Turd for the stupidest lie most convincingly told goes to”….

              I LOVE IT!

              I believe what I posted upthread may be a contender…..but I have many more if I could bring myself to relate them; it’s so damn embarrassing to acknowledge I swam in that shit for so long. I always felt like I was drowning……no wonder.

              • I really believe the beginning of the end was when I looked at him and my expression slowly turned adoration to speculation. He was always a self-absorbed ass wipe, but I don’t think he could stand that and needed someone who could see Mr. Sparkles again.

      • JK, a therapist explained it like this to me – they cannot stand to feel shame long enough to work through it so they immediately go to a place of entitlement to justify the actions that made them feel shame. This justification is often displayed by them blaming us. I have witnessed this first hand. When I caught my ex with a prostitute, he felt shame long enough to tell me that he had been with prostitutes most of our 24 year marriage and that he wasn’t planning to stop…then he launched into a tirade of how he was forced by me to use prostitutes because of blah, blah, blah. The look on his face changed dramatically within seconds.

        • That’s exactly what happened to me in terms of the “why” of it all. Your post sent chills up my spine.

        • Yes! Yes! Yes! I, too, got the “I’m so ashamed” with respect to using prostitutes, but then he promptly blamed me for the demise of our marriage.

          • The Limited actually told me I can’t even imagine what I would do if you had done this to me.

            No fucking shit because he has no shame paired with the inability to empathize. Narc!

    • Maybe guilt isn’t exactly the right term. Looking back, it seems he was angry at his beginning to view me as the obstacle to his happiness. Not only me the person, the role of wife, but as the symbolic rejection of what used to be a code of morality for him. He couldn’t figure out a way to cheat, lie and abandon while maintaining “good guy” status 100 percent. So as he saw it he was going to be losing that image due to me not due to his choices and actions. It’s SO MESSED UP!

      • Right. I see it as some kind of “Stop STOPPING ME!” because you’re interfering with their ego-buzz as someone so funkin’ awesome that they need and deserve several willing sexual partners on the go, all competing with each other for his/her funkin’ awesome genitals.

        And if willing ones can’t be found, uninformed ones will have to do. Almost as good, right?!

        • Wow, HopeAndGloria STOP STOPPING ME just helped me understand the discard narrative he used. ” I want a divorce, don’t ruin it for me.” He wrote about his dark side. Stop STOPPING Me from climbing upon a fresh new pedistal. I think I hear birds singing and down there in the meadow I see unicorns fucking.
          I was the terminator of his fantasy. If only he could be impaled by a unicorn’s horn

          • Over the years I’ve taken up a lot of reading on psychopathic behaviour — regrettably my career is across the top three professions that attract psychopaths, so better to understand the behaviour of cobras when you have to snake charm them. Thwarting is a real thing with them. It’s number one on their hate list. They HATE it with the intensity of a thousands Suns when they are thwarted from whatever high-geared anti-social antics they’re trying to pull, and their reactions to being thwarted can be pretty mind-blowing and destructive. It’s the root cause a lot of workplace strife (and no doubt relationship strife) where they scream about how the person who thwarted their antics is the real criminal here, not them or their antics in the first place. So many stories on CL reflect that very same pattern of behaviour, obviously — all the indignant howls for spouses to back off and ‘stop STOPPING ME from catering to my perverse behaviour!’.

    • I agree with Tempest. There is no guilt. If they treat you like shit it’s either:
      1) Deliberately planned so that you will be the bad guy and file for divorce or
      2) They need to demonize you so that all the justifications of their deplorable behavior makes sense in their warped, pea-sized brains.

      Hell-how can you feel guilty about something you don’t believe is wrong? The majority of cheaters’ knee jerk reaction to being caught is to tell the betrayed spouse all the reasons “they made them cheat.” With every sniveling excuse/blame shift/justification is their inability to admit they did something wrong.

      Nothing here to see folks. No guilt!

      • When I confronted match girl about her one-night stand, the first thing she did, the first thing, was ask me if I had texted my sister. When I said yes, MG raged at me like I’d never seen before. And chumpy me, I actually felt guilty for texting my sister. Bitch.

        • It’s not what she did Ian. It’s your reaction to it that’s the problem! Said every cheater everywhere!

        • Same here. I told her I was going to call my brother. She had the BALLS to tell me I couldn’t. I looked at her and said WTF! She backed off and sheepishly said “I guess you do need some support right now”. What a controlling bitch.

  • Ex could not stand to be called a liar. I never could totally prove the shit he was doing so he would dispute being called a cheater or am adulterer. But he was a proven liar (he was documented many, many times) and to call him one drove him insane. Go figure.

  • After being chumped, the thought of becoming a real nun is mighty tempting some days.

    • I’ve just been tugging on the sleeves of my robe, KE, and I suddenly realized, I’m a nun!
      That’s it. It explains a lot. Especially my sex life.

    • No nun here. I heard a nasty rumor that they are into forgiveness, turning the other cheek, etc. Ha! Not going to happen. Ever!

  • The mindfuckery takes time and counseling to sort out. During 34 years of marriage I chose to believe that people can change, overcome their addictions with great love and support.

    Unfortunately, that belief cost me years of my life, my health and will take time to sort out the lies from reality. It took a cancer diagnosis to kick my STBX to the curb. My will to live is stronger than my desire to “help him”.

    The cruelty, gas lighting, manipulation and lying he’s displayed since, re-confirm I’ve made the right choice. He can’t believe I filed for divorce and took his kibbles, cake and family man image away.

    Working toward being cancer and cheater free; which are the same thing.

    • Much strength to you, freenow, as you continue in the journey of being cancer and cheater free.

    • Freenow. I’m sorry to read what you’re going through. I certainly appreciate that its hard to get come to grips with the reality of infidelity, and so much of the sledding towards recovery is incredibly rough and must be done alone. It’s bad enough that you have to deal with that, but you are now dealing with cancer without the person who you thought would be there for you.

      I have never met you or any other person on this site, but I am convinced of the sincerity of the words of encouragement and the compassion expressed to me and to so many others by people who provide comments here. There is such commonality of experience among us that there is something meaningful even when you’re not part of the conversation. When I have felt alone, I have found friends here that I genuinely felt cared about me. They have been a warm blanket at times when I was freezing to death, for which I will be forever grateful.

      I have said all that to say this. I hope you have a lot of family and friends there to provide you support through the difficult times you are experiencing but, if not, please know, from one of the people out here in the ether, that there are actually real people here who know you are a real person going through a difficult time – to whom you matter. Congratulations on ridding yourself of your disease – now its time to beat cancer. You’ll have my prayers. Have courage and keep punching. JK

    • Freenow, count me in the cancer club. The first D-day was 5 years after I got it and my ex claimed it was the cancer that made him cheat. So I tried to wrap my head around that savory morsel of no empathy until I found his Craigslist posts from 3 years prior to my dx.

      What kind of sicko blames his cheating on your cancer and is totally lying? I had already kicked him out 8 months by the time I figured this out. Just from the friends I know who got cancer, the lack of intimacy in their marriages is predominant. I don’t know if they are connected, but I do know he was not capable of being there for me emotionally when I was going through chemo, yet spackled I did. I told everyone he is just a scientist type and was incapable of compassion. Little did I know what he was capable of.

      You made the right decision FN, chances are he would just be a burden to you as you tried to heal. Take care of yourself and surround yourself with good friends. Like child birth, the pain of this time will be a faint memory and you will be able to start anew without those who don’t have your best interest at heart.

    • Hugs to you free now. I had a distinct feeling my stbxh cheater would not be there for me in the case of serious illness as he couldn’t seem to show me compassion anytime I wasn’t feeling well (also 34 year marriage). I wish you all the best for a speedy recovery and support from real people nit the fake cheater.

  • When I confronted my now ex-wife about all the texts her and her co-worker were sending each other; her responses were:
    1) He’s gay,
    2) We’re just friends,
    3) It’s about work,
    4) Nobody likes him and needs a friend

    I got all this for a while and eventually put it all together after months of counseling!

    Even after the divorce she traveled to South America with him and she had the nerve to tell her father the same about him….lol

    I wish I could go full NC, but I have 2 daughters with her. This article came at just the right time. It’s an excellent reminder that: Cheaters, talk and look normal, and can even make you feel good while conversing……but watch out they want something when they talk to us chumps, more money, more this, more that: with my X the wants come a few days later…I want to change this in our Settlement (mind you the judge already signed) or more nickel an diming me to death….OMG.

    This is a good reminder that the mask has come off, and their true character has been revealed! RUN, RUN if you can!

    My youngest will be 16 in about 6 months and I’m going to block all but email communications!

    • “He’s gay.” So, you can still fuck him, cheater.

      “We’re just friends.” Anyone, *anyone* who ever says that to me again, will never speak to me again.

      “It’s about work.” I didn’t realize the prevalence of ho-workers before I came to CN, but now I know, a cheater loves to shit where they eat.

      “Nobody likes him, and he needs a friend.” This is just pure projection. UBT? “Nobody likes me because I’m a cheater, and I need a friend.”

      • It is possible to have male friends at your work place that you may engage in workplace gossip with. I just never
        met with them outside of the office. My ex was mad because he saw a picture of me at a political fundraiser that he “allowed ” me to go to after I invited him to go and he refused. The old me would’ve known that I wouldn’t be allowed to go if he didn’t ….WRONG, I went. In the pic I was in the middle of two gay men one with his arm around my shoulders. My ex Had met both of these men and knew them only as being gay. If you believe a gay man can still fuck then you have to believe that he is aroused sexually by women which would make him bi sexual. Women can be sexual with other women. Now that my ex and I are no longer together I travel Extensively that same gay friend to Hawaii, Paris, I spend nights at his home. We have NEVERTHELESS been intimate and never will because he is Gay, homosexual, he is sexually attracted to MEN.

        To 1731
        Did her texts imply otherwise? That they were not friends? I’m just wondering because my ex used to go through my phone, listen to my voicemails, put a GPS in my car that was discovered by my mechanic. I never kept my phone locked, he knew all of my passwords and could use my car any time he pleased, I had nothing to hide. He would find messages in my phone from guys at work and it would be about work but he would always make them dirty. Example of voicemail:

        MALE FRIEND: Hi LDC, it’s John, I was hoping this was you, well I’m returning your call.

        That message he would use against me for the next two years, screaming “WHY WAS HE HOPING IT WAS”
        By the way, I never routinely went through his personal items. I trusted him. When I did after a night of him ranting and accusing me of sucking dicks at work because I didn’t immediately answer one of his NUMEROUS calls throughout the day ( face time mostly to make sure I was really at work). I found this text

        Cheater: hey you with that big sexy ass
        Her: who is this?

        Cheater: It’s me, sewer dick, I’m joes friend we met.
        Her: oh the birthday boy
        Cheater: yes, you are extremely beautiful, I MUST see you again.

        Then he saw me with the phone and tackled me snatching it from my hands. As a side note his last line is the one he said to me when we met 6 years prior.

        I gave him the benefit of the doubt even though he never gave me an explanation to that text just silence, or he would look at me and say, “I was hoping it was you calling”. Referencing the voicemail he heard. AKA false equivalency.

        • Forgot to add that I work in afield dominated by men 98%. I may have shifts I work for weeks and never see another woman. He knew this when he met me. I started to hate my job that I previously loved. Became withdrawn at work, antagonistic at times and called in sick CONSTANLY. I’m back to normal in that respect now that he’s gone.

  • I am so glad that I an almost on the other side of this kinda bullshit….like , more than half way to Meh. The words sting less. The memories are arranged differently and my BS tolerance is really low. You wake up one day and you realize that you are truely better off without them. I know you say it a thousand times like a mantra… To make yourself believe it. But the epiphany comes when you wake up and believe it.
    It comes my friends… Wait for it.

    • I feel like it comes and goes. I guess the road to Meh just isn’t a straight shot….

      • +1 I always hope that ‘this time’ I have made it. Not yet, but at least getting glimpes of Meh!

    • While I am NEVER okay with what happened, yes, you do come to the other side of this and realize you are better off with them gone. After a period of NC you realize how toxic they really were to you. My life is exactly the same just without him weighing me down and disappointing me. I got to the point that I am actually glad it happened in a way in that had it not I would still be with him plugging along unaware and even though I did not know it then, I was unhappy. Had it not blown up as it did I may have never let go.

      • Ditto. I didn’t realize how unhappy I was until d-day. I am amazed by how many people now tell me how good I look. I haven’t lost or gained weight, changed my hair style, type of attire or any other obvious feature. It’s what I’m beginning to feel on the inside that’s showing outward. When I am at home by myself and sometimes feel lonely, it’s okay because I remember what I felt like during the last two years he was here. I’ve never felt more alone and on my own in my life than when he was in the same room with me. That’s very sad and no way to live.

        • When I get that lonely feeling, not sure right word… I think what would I be doing now with him and then I love the alone.

        • I was told I look younger. I could actually feel gravity pulling at my face, my eyes felt constantly welled up, like I could cry at any moment.

    • LOL, this made me laugh. Why would want me? Well, any other loser like yourself would want you, that’s who.

      • LOL, after I got the “I love you but not in love with you speech” is when I suspected cheating. My sister and I contemplated the idea and decided na… not the way he looks, who would want him? He would go out looking like he just got done working under a care. Later I learned that was planned. He had changed when he left and changed back before coming home!

        And yes, I learned there is actually ALOT of girls that want him. Creepy.

        • What the fuck does that mean anyway, “I love you but I’m not in love with you.” Can someone please explain it? What do the cheaters do, Google tired and worn clichés. God they’re stupid. I even got the, “it’s not you, it’s me.” I say, “Damn right it’s you!”

          Sorry, little rant. I’m better now.

  • When I was in college, I was madly in love with my boyfriend “Jason”.

    Jason cheated on me with anything that had a hole and a heartbeat. After 3 years of that shit, I finally smartened up, kicked him to the curb and moved back to my hometown to begin my career.

    Four years later, I met my whore-fucker husband. During my 19 years with whore-fucker, the red flags waived daily, high and clear. Anytime I would question things that didn’t seem right, he would say “I’m not Jason.” I can’t tell you how often he spoke those words. And they worked on me. I love my whore-fucker husband, I hated Jason for what he did and how he made me feel. Of course I don’t want to compare my beautiful, faithful loving whore-fucking husband to Jason.

    Towards the end, close to D-Day, probably the last time I heard him say “I’m not Jason,” i finally said “I KNOW you’re not Jason. I broke up with Jason 20 years ago. I’m talking to YOU”

    Yeah. So then D-Day. Prostitutes. Tons of them. For years. During one of our sad, pathetic wreconciliation
    conversations, i said to him “You’re NOT Jason, you’re WORSE than Jason”. He looked me in the eye and said “So, maybe Jason’s available?”

    THAT was a jaw-dropping, pretty dance stopping moment. I can’t believe what a piece of shit I married.

    • I wish you’d had a baseball bat handy so you could’ve smashed his stupid face in. “So, maybe Jason’s available.”

      This guy needs an ass-whooping.

      • Ian………love your baseball bat response! I do this to the X piece of shit in my mind a lot!

    • Give Time Time, I was married before cheater and the first husband was a real loser. Alcoholic, abusive, unemployed a long time. He was not a cheater or liar to my knowledge.

      I made the mistake of telling cheater about this early on. This gave him a Jason to use against me. No matter what he did, he wasn’t like the first husband. He was just so damn much better, don’t you know? At least I’m not a drunk. At Ieast I don’t hit you. At least I work. Blah blah blah.

      Yeah, and you are a fucking lying cheater so you are no better than that turd. Also, what makes the cheating even more heinous (if that is possible) is that I was messed from my first marriage. Nice of this prick to add in even more abuse. And the bastard had the nerve to think I wouldn’t hate his lying cheater guts. Thanks to those two turds I have a nice case of PTSD. They are both losers.

      • Brenda and GTT, IMO they will use anything available with impunity and righteousness to blame shift and gaslight. Anything. Will take our words, our beliefs, our interests, our friends, our family, our Jasons and use them to knock us off the tightrope we’ve been on for years.

        But, “Friends forever, right? ‘Cause I’m not done with cake yet.”

        • Brenda. When I was in my early twenties many moons ago, my cheating ex boyfriend strangled me and left me for dead after I told him I was tired of his cheating and was moving out. Big mistake sharing anything personal with these misfits. After all the accusing and name calling he would say, ” That’s why **** tried to kill you, you’re nothing but a nasty slut!”

      • During our divorce my ex tried to make himself appear as though he wasn’t such a bad guy because he didn’t physically beat me… Oh yeah, it was so nice of him to punch the wall next to my head instead of punching my face.

        • When our kids had enough and stopped seeing him, my ex explained to all of us that he wasn’t a monster, he hadn’t beaten us or sexually abused anybody. I agreed, he’s not a monster, He’s just an asshole, and that’s enough.

          • Karen, did you give him a “I didn’t beat or sexually abuse my family” trophy? I’m sure they must have them on Amazon. You didn’t? What a bad wife you are. You and your kids totally deserved to have your life exploded. Next time, don’t forget to conduct an awards ceremony. (I hope my sarcasm came through)

            • @GTT I believe that’s what we call a bitch cookie around here. 🙂

              I didn’t beat you! Well then. Bitch cookie for you.

              Yeah. I got that too. I don’t come home drunk. I don’t beat you. I don’t murder people. I don’t force anybody to do anything that they don’t want to do.

              When you look at it objectively, if a person has only murderers, rapists, drunks and pedophiles to compare themselves to in order to look like a good guy—bitch cookies don’t quite cover it, do they.

              I was called a “pill taker” once, in some ridiculous, circular argument with cheater. You’d think, WOW he’s calling her a drug addict! Is there some merit to that?

              No. In response to me having a wee bit of a problem with finding out about him fucking three different women, plus me (his wife)—he snapped…

              “Well, at least I’m not a pill taker!”

              “Pill-taker?” I asked.

              “Yeah! You take birth control pills so you won’t get pregnant with any more babies! That’s against God’s will!” he screamed.

              “Um, I take them because I am irregular and have painful periods after the birth of our son, you know, the one I almost bled to death delivering. Not sure what birth control has to do with you sticking your dick into every hole in town. What does God say about THAT?”


    • Holy Shit. I’m with Ian and the baseball bat. He deserves more than a beating.

      • Lol…. no…. and compared to the whore fucker I married, he was actually a pretty good guy.

        • Ah, the folly of youth. Sorry you traded down. But you’re mighty now!

  • Wow! you won the lottery! I do believe you got the real deal, the genuine non-pleather “whore-fucker”. I say pleather cause I can’t spell naugahyde!

  • Are you psychic, CL?! Mr Fab said exactly this, “Well, if you think I am THAT sort of person….”, to which I replied, “I KNOW you are that sort of person. Get out.”

    • Fuck yeah, Mehphista. How the hell did such an imbecile end up with someone so clever as yourself?

  • My xh pulled a lot of stunts in our marriage, but this one was a doozy. One night in a drama filled frenzy, he searched my car at home – he took what turned out to be a reimbursement check from my seat (I think he thought it was a pay stub.)

    I looked and searched for that check, I believe he did not take it, and that I somehow lost it. To his multiple lies, “I did not take it, I did not take it!” I was going to look like an arse requesting a stop payment on the first check, issued one day before and request another check.

    12 hours later, I got a call at my work, someone found the check in a parking lot ONE HOUR from my house, next door to my x husbands place of employment. The kicker was that to retrieve it, I had to go to a bad area of town. The man who found it was a good guy.

    EVEN WITH THE story, the check and location, my x husband would still never admit to taking it.

    At one point, I looked him straight in the eye and said. “Look at the evidence. If you did not take it, how can you explain the check showing up one hour away right next to your company? I know that you are lying. YOU know that you are lying. Asking you again, Did you take the check?”

    He stupidly stared at me for a few minutes, then said, “I don’t know how the check wound up there, I did not take it.” Although he admitted being in my car the night before.

    Jesus Christ himself with a baseball bat could not beat the truth out of them. They are pathological liars, DON’T CARE who may or may not get hurt by their lies.

    • Your story reminded me of D-day when I discovered all the private messages with hookers and he left that night. The next day my son drove 14 hrs to be with me and had taken my car to fill it up with gas for me, when he got pulled over for talking on his cell phone to his brother. Turned out to be a good thing, because when asked for his license and registration, he discovered that the proof of insurance and registration were not in the glove box as it always has been.

      The asshole just got caught cheating, and THAT was the first thing he thought of doing as he left the house?? His response… “It should be in there”. Yeah, it should, but it’s not. When my son demanded that he return it, he replied, “she can go to the DMV and get a copy”. For one, it’s a company car and not titled to me. And two, I was in bed throwing up. Took him a month to have someone from his company send me a copy so I was driving around without insurance and registration in the meantime.

      My only thought as to why he would do that was his hope that I would run back to my family which is over 1,000 miles away and claim that I stole the car. To this day he stills denies talking it, yet no one else but the two of us had the keys and the car was locked. And they call US crazy? Lying fuckers….all of em.

    • Magneto – your story would be a good example of stupid shit my shit for brains would do. BUT – he would have probably called the dog over – had the dog somehow pick up the check – the dog would bring it and drop it off in his vehicle and waalaa! “I didn’t take the check!” (Not lying….)
      Jackass would constantly pull shit like that. “Did you text her?” No. (And he would not be lying because he CALLED her….) Fuck heads.

  • After I stood by him, after a tenth or so surgery- this time for a three level neck fusion- because he has psoriatic arthritis and didn’t take his meds and was abusing alcohol, among other things- I found out he was seeing the OW again. He said: “You went back to work and left me home alone to recover, so it was your fault that I started seeing her again.” Although the fact that i had to work to support my family made him cheat because he was ‘lonely’, I later found out that even that was a total lie- my son looked back at his cell phone records and found out that they were talking numerous times a day at least a year prior. WHO CHEATS AFTER HAVING NECK SURGERY???!!!! Only a fuckwit.

    • lostandfound,

      I was diagnosed with PA the summer before I started law school. My SI joints are garbage, I have compression fractures in my spine, and I have osteoporosis. I have to take Enbrel, and a crap-load of other meds. And I *never* entertained the idea of cheating. MG, saw my illness as weakness, and it’s one of the “reasons” she cheated. Yeah, so that happened.

      • Ian, I commend you on your strength and wisdom to face all of your life’s challenges head on. You will continue to grow because you have this thing…I can’t think of the word…I can’t put a name to it….oh yeah…..It’s called CHARACTER. Keep on with your badd-ass self and I sincerely wish you all that you seek in life.

        As for MG….she has this thing…I can’t think of the word…I can’t put a name to it….oh yeah…..It’s called CHARACTERLESS UNEMPATHETIC CHEATING TWAT!!

      • Ian,

        I am sorry that your wife was such an unremitting ass. In my case, I used my lawyerly skills (yup, me too) to do research to find him the best doctors in the world. I spent HOURS doing that while I didn’t know he was cheating, and honestly, even after I knew. I was going to fix things- get him the best medical treatment, but he cancelled the appointments and never took his meds or followed his doctors’ advice. When he went for Remicade infusions, they would send him home, refusing to do it. He said it was because his blood pressure was too high because I was stressing him out, but it turned out that he was drinking and that’s why his blood pressure was off the charts. In our case, his declining health was the reason for the affair- he said that he deserved a bit of happiness, I made him work too much, he wanted to move to FL (even though I work for a firm in NY and our only child is here- oh, and yes, the OW had bought a house in FL so they could retire there together). He also said: that if I was the ill partner, he would kick me to the curb. (yes, he said this many more times than once). Illness is a test of love and loyalty. I am sorry we both didn’t find that in our partners. We both deserve better. Unlike your wife, I would have stuck forever. Illness is a test of strength in many ways- we find our strength when we are ill or our partners are ill. When there is a weak link, like my husband and your wife, whatever was left falls apart. You are the strong one. I am sure of that.

      • Oh Ian! Damn! I am sorry you suffer even more than MG dished out.

        …I don’t know if it will help but…Nature’s Sunshine has a product called ‘Everflex’ that is just an amazing herbal remedy for arthritis…you can buy it online. You should check it out. …in my mind natural is better…course it’s not a stretch for me…I was raised with herbal remedies…my great grandparents were full blood Cherokee.

      • lostandfound, SureChumpedAlot, KarmaExpress, Jeep

        Thanks y’all.

        MG had a very serious eye surgery a year before d-day. She was face-down in one of those chair’s for two weeks. I felt more compassionate and caring toward her during her blindness, surgery, and recovery. She still has almost no sight in one eye and she is legally blind. I even spend a month with her while her mom died from MS.

        I haven’t mentioned my disability here before. It’s ever-present in my life. I didn’t want to hijack the thread, but my PA (actually ankylosing spondylitis) seemed germane to lostandfound’s fuckwit. I didn’t do Remicade, but it was offered. I no longer do the infusion, but now do the injections myself.

        We mutually pledged to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor. All of you chumps know that I’m not simply employing hyperbolic rhetoric when I say that her cheating felt like treachery and murder.

        • Ian, the more you write about MatchGirl, the more I hate her. I’m sorry. (And she just got elevated to a spot on the Tony Soprano list.)

        • Ian – Your resilience and ability to stay NC despite how horrendously diplicitous MG has been to you is incredible, may a karma megabus smash MG & MS into smithereens.

  • So, we’re paranoid narcs if we question their behavior and fools if we don’t. No wonder my intuition was in tatters… it was worn out from jumping up and down, waving its arms and screaming “LISTEN TO ME! LISTEN TO ME!”

  • Ya know….. it wasn’t until I wrote this this morning, how whenever I questioned my whore-fucking ex-husband’s activities, he replied “I’m not Jason”….. that maybe that was his way of NOT lying.

    He didn’t say “I’m not cheating” or “i’m not lying” or “I’m not a whore-fucking piece of shit sexual predator who gave you HTP”. He said “I’m not Jason” and left it up to me to equate “not Jason = not an asshole”

    But the truth is, he WASN’T Jason. I’ve seen my whore-fucker ex husband’s drivers license. The name Jason isn’t anywhere on there. Hell, it’s not even on his birth certificate. It’s true, he ISN’T Jason. Yes, he was fucking whores during his lunch hour for at least 5 years and writing detailed reviews of his escapades with them on a John/Whore website, but never, not once, not ever, was he actually Jason.

    So, maybe “Im not Jason” is the only truth that spewed out of his lying liar hole in 19 years.


    • GTT, they are masterful liars and evaders. I asked my ex in front of the therapist if he had ever given someone money for sex. I thought I was covering all the bases by asking the question that way. His reply was that he gave $40 to a ho-worker because she had been fired from her job and was short on cash. So, he answered *and evaded* my question at the same time. I didn’t rephrase my question but rather moved on to something else. A few months later, I caught him with a prostitute and that’s when he finally admitted to using them throughout our marriage.

      I wonder if your ex was trying to evade your question and divert your attention too by constantly saying “I’m not Jason”.

    • Nope, he wasn’t accidentally telling the truth. He was gaslighting you. “The issues area all in your head.” It’s worse than a lie. It makes you question your reality, your truth.

    • I think you’ve got it GiveTimeTime —

      “I’m not Jason” was this guy’s “If I didn’t have a temple, why would I be dressed like this (a nun)?!”. They think that, rather than answering the question directly, hitting you with a piece of logic will sound a little bit like they’re telling the truth. They’re just trying to get you to agree with them. “Oh ok, you’re right, you’re not Jason”, “Oh ok, you’re right, you wouldn’t be dressed like that” — diversionary tactics. They don’t want to come clean. It’s all about spinning plates, spinning plates, spinning plates, as many as they can, for as long as they can.

      • The other lovely little gas lighting thing about the whole “I’m not Jason” routine was that it not only diverted my attention, but actually made ME feel bad for comparing him to someone that I considered to be a bad person. He was insulted and appalled that I would dare compare him to Jason, and would manage to leave ME apologizing for being so rude, while he left for his lunch break at the Brothel of the Y.


        • I’m not Jason is what he used to put you on the defensive. It’s a manipulative tactile that works very well, I should know. I wish I could get the book “Gift of Fear” on the curriculum of every ninth grader. I sure wish I’d read it before I was fucked over. It may seem off the wall but if you apply the concepts to social interactions it’s really useful. Bonus, you are not untangling the skein, you are learning how to spot assholes and scary people

          • I love that book. Basically Gavin deBecker says that we are the only animals in the animal kingdom that go against our natural intuition and instead of running when our gut says run, we talk ourself into dangerous situations. It is the only book I’ve ever recommended in my professional life. It absolutely should be required reading.

  • My unicorn made it quite clear to me by saying, “I would never cheat on you again because that would like cheating on him…it would be as if he meant nothing to me. I LOVED him and now I love you equally, I swear that there could never be another.”

    She could not understand why I became upset after saying this to me.

      • Funny Tempest-I actually asked the ex that a couple of times: “Do you actually hear the words that come out of your mouth?’

        Cheater: Blank, dumb stare!

    • I would never cheat on you again because that would like cheating on him…it would be as if he meant nothing to me. I LOVED him and now I love you equally…

      This is Ninja-Jedi level mindfuckery, cuckedoff.

      • I know. I can feel the Dark Side penetrate my so all day long every day of my life. My life is absolute HELL because of this!

        • What I meant to write is that my eternal soul has been permanently damaged. I wish that I had never allowed myself to become vulnerable enough to fall in love! I should have known that it would only end in pain…my pain.

          • We all deserve to be loved cuckedoff…just not like they ‘loved’ us. Don’t say that you wish you hadn’t fallen in love. You will love again and BE LOVED like you deserve to be loved!

            Loving a disordered person and the ensuing fall out is a hard lesson to learn but the life beyond it is so much better! And, I bet, if we ‘fix our pickers’ real love is gonna be just heaven on earth!

            These assholes do not define us!

            • Thank you for the kind words. I hope to one day make the decision to take control of my own life and leave that cheater. I want to do that, but I don’t want some other guy raising my son and I cringe at the thought of giving her half of everything I have worked so hard for plus a big monthly check because she decided to betray me with my unemployed buddy while I was hard at work to earn it. In my mind, it feels like I am am forced into paying a large amount of money for my wife to have repeated sex with some other dude. How in the hell is THAT even legal?

              • cuckedoff…I don’t know where you are or what the laws are…I’m in Ohio and it is a ‘no fault’ state…but a woman I worked with cheated on her husband and the courts actually made HER pay HIM! WHAT! I have no idea how he did that but I was very happy he did – AND I told her so…shameful way to treat your spouse and father of your children! AND she had to pay him so much spousal support he wouldn’t have to work anymore if he didn’t want to! Good for him! She found out right quick that consequences suck! Sooo! Bully for her! Did I mention he also got 50/50 custody of the kids? Yep, and they soon just wanted to stay with him!

                I don’t know how it will go for you if you file and go get yourself a better life BUT I do know that you will be happier, healthier and free of the hellish drama you live in daily. I hope you go for it cause I am sure you will start feeling better and better and better once you are on your way! 😀

                You sound like an awesome father and man. Go find your awesome! Take back your power and leave that cheater. And do not falter when she tries to come crawling back!!!!

              • Jeep,

                Thanks for the sweet words of encouragement. I have mentioned on another post that I am a little afraid of her. She has already proven to be diabolically minded and she had told me several times that she would destroy me at any cost if I were to ever come forward about her affair. Her AP committed suicide before I learned about their relationship and she says that she cannot wait to be with him in the after life!
                I know it is nuts, but I keep hoping and praying for her to have another affair. I would much appreciate that she can have another place to go and someone else to deal with all of her drama. Next time, I will be wise to her deceit and will have real evidence to back me up in court. Believe me, it is the best option.

  • Cheaters live for drama. My stbx has gotten away with criminal behavior: Posing as a recovered over-eater for HerbaLife income, double cashing $2,500 Spousal Support checks (once on her phone & once in person) while the bank declined to prosecute, and putting bruises on herself to say that I beat her. (Just to name a few.)
    Cheaters never prosper. Oh, and the lies she told in court: her lies could magically revamp mid-testimony to point a finger at any poor passerby (my lawyer, me, a school teacher, my mother, her boss) for causing her new distress.
    She is a con artist. I am just sorry that I helped her get US citizenship and that I learned her f’ing language.
    Her lies are nails in her own coffin. Lying stunts relationships and yep, tsunami is the best word for the devastation.
    I am doing work for a better me. Apparently my alcohol-use and pornography-use have destroyed my reality. (Why else would I tolerate the lies for fifteen years?) It just took the break-up of my family to get me to own my shit and move my ass toward being better. I am working on an honest moral inventory. Someone has got to change. I will start with me.

    • Oh, and the lies she told in court: her lies could magically revamp mid-testimony to point a finger at any poor passerby (my lawyer, me, a school teacher, my mother, her boss) for causing her new distress.

      Thanks for the head’s up. I’ll expect no less in my case.

  • What everyone else said. I was inspired to write The Chump’s Prayer: God, grant us the wisdom to see clearly when the ones we love and trust are throwing shit in our eyes so we won’t see them bringing the shovel down on our heads. Amen.

  • Here is an idiotic and humorous statement that my ex-wife mentioned back in the day…“Rob I was always faithful to you up til now, doesn’t that count for anything? I am not a cheater!! I know myself , I know myself, I would of never done those things if I would of loved you the way I was supposed to love you.”

    At that point Medusa had turned me to stone and I broke in a million pieces. 5 years later, I metaphorically have beheaded Medusa to place on my shield to protect me from any potential narc cheater onlookers. Works great! I am happy and cheater-free.

    • Haha, SureChumpedAlot, I call my ex’s skank “Medusa” ‘cuz she has ugly red hair and turned his heart to stone. Maybe they’re the same person. Glad you’re happy, although it’s too bad the beheading had to be metaphorical.

      • Love that Fifi…”too bad the beheading had to be metaphorical.” Sooo true!!

        Ex was a brunette so no red hair but she would wear the most obnoxious red lipstick when hooking up with married men. Yuch!

    • You said:

      At that point Medusa had turned me to stone and I broke in a million pieces.

      Quite a mental image you paint there with your words.

  • Let’s see what my cheater pulled from the handbook…
    1. “I would not have an affair. It’s hard enough to deal with one woman.”
    2. The boss at work is banging (insert name here). He kept talking about it, again, and again, and again. Yeah, his boss may have been having an affair, but he was also a boss having an affair with his employee. Me thinks he doth protest too much.
    3. “If I ever decided to go outside the marriage I would tell you first so that you could make a choice.”
    4. “I am not cheating on you. She just has a lot of problems now and I’m helping her out.”
    5. “Hey this girl from work is bringing over her jeep so (son) can fix her brakes.”
    6. “That text you got was meant for you. I thought it would be funny to call you my gorgeous girlfriend. And I was wishing you goodnight because I was tired. I know you just got to work. I love you.”
    7. “I love you but I’m not in love with you.”

    What I pulled from the CL handbook….
    1. “Okay dumbass, let me explain it one more time, defendant means that I am the plaintiff and I am divorcing your sorry ass.”
    2. “It says on the agreement that you may not enter the premises without proper notification. No notification = burglary/ felony x 2-5 years in state prison + butt fucked.”
    3. …………(crickets)……………

    • Wow, Anne, could he at least have been original? What a schmuck. I like all 3 of your replies, but especially #3!

      • Nope. He’s a true dumbass like all cheaters. I think scientists could win a research grant to study just how damn dumb he really is. Don’t worry. No animals would be harmed during this study because lab mice have more sense than he does. I don’t know if the picture I’m posting of him will come through, but yes, he’s an amoeba. If you look closely, you can see the TV remote in his fat amoeba hand. The other amoeba hand is in a bad of cheese doodles. Cheese doodle dust is everywhere.

  • Just got good news–CL’s new book will be delivered by May 9th (on a preorder from Amazon), days earlier than expected.

    • Mine says May 5 or 6. Don’t forget we are doing a remote book launch party in North Texas. See Forum for details!

  • I kept hearing how it was my fault. His shrink (who he only went to 2x) said I was a nag and he should leave me. His employees thought I was a nag (how would they know??!!!). His family (who I always helped) didn’t like me. Someone he knew at alcohol rehab didn’t like me. (huh?) Ironically, I ended up with all the friends and our son. As for his family, they were all just like him so good riddance. On my last birthday, there was a message on my answering machine from my stbx father in law of 35 years, thinking he had called the OW- and saying what a “doll” she is and how he loved loved loved meeting her. All pieces of shit! Crappy people come from crappy people.

  • And, btw, I kept hearing how he hates women with red hair- guess what color hair schmoopie has? I also heard that she was ugly and has a horse face, so I guess her face and hair were not the major drawing points. But “she’s fun!!!”

  • Uh, guys? I just read an article out of Ohio about a man calling 911 and telling them he just shot his wife. He said he came back from a trip and learned she had removed money from their bank account and wouldn’t tell him why. Just kept saying “Talk to my lawyer” so he shot her. That freaks me out. There is nothing in the piece I read about infidelity, but it does seem like a variation on some of CL’s advice. So if you’re planning to get out, WATCH YOUR SHIT! Be careful! I’d leave a link but I can’t get the hang of it.

  • As always, great translation CL! The response of these con artists and cheaters is unbelievable. They are the ones who get insulted when we ask valid questions. The level of entitlement, tone of voice and attitude they display is unreal. How dare *we* question their integrity and morals. Just because they say it with such conviction and certainty, doesn’t mean they are right. It took me years to figure this out. Now when I ask a question that is valid, I remain strong and unwavering and I am laser focused on getting the answer. If I get a shady response or a non-answer, I repeat until the other party crumbles. It works 99% of the time, and I remain unemotional like a robot and rinse repeat. It drives the lying or guilty party insane. I don’t care.

  • Several times when I would say “I think you’re cheating”. Ex-wipe would say “If I was cheating, women would be knocking at the door and calling your phone. Is anyone knocking on the front door”. How was I able to suspend my rational thought processes for so long?
    What a chump I was.
    I also got: “You are just insecure”.
    I would reply “No, I’m not.” Now after finding CL and CN, divorcing and 6 months of limited contact, I’ve learned that
    “It really was emotional abuse and I’m just not safe around you, Ex-wipe.”

    • So he tried the usual b.s. response of “you’re just insecure”. I can’t believe he said this, it’s so friggin lame. He’s the insecure one lying about his cheating and hiding it. Coward. And yes it is emotional abuse. I’m so glad you’re out.

    • Rachel that’s not only lame but your Ex-wipe sounds like a 1970s cartoon character. Or Archie Bunker. Knocking at the door? Sorry I just… ?!?! He wants you to believe that pieces-on-the-side, who are well-versed in the art and science of operating on the down-low and being just a hole to be used, all want to turn up unannounced and knock at his/your door… because why? To what purpose? Knock-knock-knock, hi, it’s me, trick or treat, smell my feet, give me some’m good to eat?? What, do they want to borrow your crockery set? And who even knocks at doors any more, since the advent of mobile phones? Or a piece-on-the-side would want to ring YOUR phone? At what point in his carry-on did he say ‘Oh and here’s my wife’s cellphone number, just in case…’ That’s supposed to prove he’s not having an affair?? God the cognitive dissonance.

  • Thanks, Chumptitude! Happy to take one for the team (eyeroll).

    Yes, our evil Xs were separated at birth.

    • Ah Tempest, so much to say about teamwork – When I found out about his affair, I told my X that I had thought our family was a team, but his cheating proved he was no longer on my team. I added that time would tell if he was able to be on our kiddo’s team.

      He told me he did not share my team view… Since starting NC, I realized that yeah, he is unable to be on anyone’s team except his “poor me” team.

      Good riddance!

  • I KNEW he was cheating but I never had the guts to actually believe it, let alone confront him with it. You folks galvanize me.

  • I heard the EXACT same…if you think that I am THAT kind of a person then why would you be with me? Turns out he is THAT kind of a person to the 10th Power….strippers, whores, old high school hags our entire marriage…..and yes…this shit is way on its way to over. The settlement reached, the house is sold, my new little townhouse is under construction…and the divorce should be final early July. Thank you Chump Lady for your blog and my daily morning check in to keep me on the path to mental correction. Hard to believe that someone who kissed you on the cheek every single morning with an “I love you” and brings you a cup of coffee before leaving for the day is someone who also screws strippers and randoms for 13 years all without a condom.

    Glad I’m HIV free and divorced within one year of my final D-Day.

    Thanks Chump Lady and Happy 4th Anniversary to you.


  • Off topic but the forums are a bit confusing. There are so many pages. How do you find people?

  • I’m really struggling with deep sadness at being cheated on. He lied & lied to me. I caught him at OW house. Turns out they had a cheater phone. He wants a divorce. He filed. We were together 21 years. We have 3 young kids. I’m devastated. He says it’s not my fault & it’s all him. But why did he replace me? Why does her grass seem greener? Why is it worth hurting your family & kids? I’m a mess. 🙁

    • You CAN do this Ican!!!! You DO NOT DESERVE to be treated this way! No contact Sister!!! NONE! Call or go to your best BEST friend that you trust – your Mom or Dad if you are lucky enough to still have em – and go deaf and blind where that disordered asshole is concerned! And DO NOT respond if he contacts you AND I PROMISE YOU HE WILL cause, as it is said here AND IT IS TRUE, ADULTING IS HARD and now he is going to have to do it WITHOUT YOU and she isn’t gonna put up with his shitty character! He’s just FUCKING LUCKY you did for as long as you did. Life goes on Sister and bills need paid and food needs to be cooked / boughten / made / eaten and WORK everyday and LIFE JUST KEEPS GOIN and he won’t have you to shoulder him up and SHE WON’T for long. You go deaf and blind on his cheating stupid ass and LEAVE THAT CHEATING ASSHOLE AND GET YOURSELF THE GENUINE LIFE YOU DESERVE! We got your back Sister!!! TRUST THAT!


      Ugh…slimy bastard doesn’t deserve to breathe!

      …I am so wishing for divine LIGHTNING TO STRIKE…no one deserves to GO THROUGH THIS!

    • Icandothis18 – I am so sorry you’re going through this! Being discarded is a tsunami that leads to a thought-robbing, heart-stopping pain that seems to go on and on.

      I found reading the “gift of anger,” and Lundy Bancroft’s “why does he do this” very helpful.

      Also, I did a lot of the free mindful meditations online through the chopra center, read CL’s archives again and again, as well as journaled the shit out of my mind to help with the pain.

      The pain is incredible, but it is finite. Please keep going Icandothis18, use the forum for support, and keep reading, you can do this!

      • I’ll look into the forum. The pain is excruciating & when I cry it feels like my guts are twisting up. I can’t go complete NC bc I have kids that are 7,11 & 13. The 11 & 13 year old won’t see their Dad. He lied to them & told us it was a midlife crisis & he needed space to figure out his life & kids begged him not to leave. But on Dec 1 he left without telling us. He said he needed to think about his life. I caught him in the affair on Jan 28. I just can’t accept this. I loved him so much, so unconditionally. I loved my little family & our times together. I guess it all meant more to me than it does to him.

    • ICanDoThis18: You sound as if you’ve recently had D-day. The shock of the initial days is intense, and there is no way to make sense of what just happened to you. The first 4 months will be a blur, with tons of anxiety, and depression, and mindmovies. At least some part of every day, you need to have your wits about you enough to see a lawyer, make copies of financial papers, get support from friends and a therapist, etc. Collapse at night after your tasks are complete. No one makes it through this hell except for one baby step at a time. You are going to feel as if you can’t live through a divorce (or don’t want to) but each week will be a little better than the one before.

      Get an account by clicking on the Forums (top right) and go post your story, plus ask for advice on specific things. This site, and the warm, wonderful people on it, are going to save your sanity. Huge hugs to you.

      • Listen to Tempest, Ican! Joining the forums saved my life and my soul.

        Welcome to the club nobody wanted to join.


  • The Forums can be a bit confusing but most people seem to post on the “General” thread, not realizing there are more below it. But, I believe most ppl read that General one at the top. Yes, the forums have helped me out tremendously.

  • Great advice, Tempest. We have all been where you are now ICanDoThis – the lucky thing for you is you found C/L & C/N early on. I was lucky like that too. Got the strength somehow to kick the ass’s hole to the curb, hoping I was doing the right thing. You will doubt yourself every step of those baby steps. Your entire world has just been ripped out from under you. As well as your young children – so much at stake that you held so Holy in your vows. You will probably learn he has been a jerk all along and yes – they don’t care as much as you do about what you’ve built together. It’s just unbelievable to absorb that. The entitlement is what is the most sickening. Just KNOW you had absolutely nothing to do with this. It’s him. His character flaw, and sorry to say, it seems like they are a dime a dozen – especially if you have kids and they take advantage of the entire Rock you and they have provided him with. Sure, his image is great because of his family and it’s really tough love and hard to absorb that – no, he can fuck around whenever he likes. My X figured since he made more money than I, that it was absolutely his entitlement….and of course, they never ever think they’ll get caught.

    I’m sorry you’re about to start throwing shit at that fan and it will all hit him in the face.
    He has no idea the consequences about to come his way.

    Be smart, as Tempest says – get your ducks in a row and surprise the hell out of him. Best thing my lawyer did when I went to sign a “separation agreement’, was had a Dissolution of Marriage Agreement all typed up for me. She said, ‘reconciliation never works. This will work better for you.’ And, she was right.

    We’re all in this struggle together and I wish you so much luck with the young kids.
    What a disaster your asshole just caused – upending the roots of the tree you built.
    That’s serious shit and he doesn’t deserve the time of day.

    I’m sorry if this is harsh.
    I’m just so angry for you and hate to hear of another chump finding out the worst tsunami is about to hit. And, there’s no going back. You cannot go around the pain, under it, over it — just THROUGH it, day by day and take the best care of yourself so you can take good care of your children.

    Please lawyer up asap so you know your rights.
    So sorry you have joined this club…but it’s a very good club who knows what you’re going through.

    Peace – please, wherever you can find it right now.
    Drink fluids, exercise and write your thoughts to us. We’ll help.

    • Thank you for the encouragement. I am so numb & sad. I have a lawyer & a therapist. I really wish I could go NC but I can’t completely. My older two kids won’t go with him at all. He’s having an affair with a lady that has skid at my daughters middle school. It’s so awkward & uncomfortable for my kids & me. Ughhh
      What will make him feel the consequences? So far he just acts so entitled. Says he has to finally prioritize him.

      • Ican — you CAN do this. Start by being your own best friend and best advocate. The best person to think about right now is you. Be brave and strong and mighty. Do what’s best for you and don’t let yourself down.

        His entitlement is infuriating and cruel, we know this. As for ‘finally prioritising him’ (roll eyes) – that ego buzz he’s getting now will not last. It never does. And that’s the consequence. Why? Because, as he admitted, it’s all about him. Him, him, him, him, him. Not ‘her’, not ‘them’, not the ‘us’ that she probably thinks they have. Him. Big old him. Believe me, you don’t want the ‘him’ on your hands anymore. Get rid of him. It may sound counter-intuitive, but it will make you feel better and more in control of your destiny if you give him a big hard shove OUT. Throw all the crap he left behind into bags tonight, toss ’em into the yard, and tell him to collect before the raccoons get into them. His bicycle, his XBox, all the framed photos of himself (heh heh), collect them up and put them out there. To the left, to the left. No he doesn’t get to use you as his storage administrator. No he doesn’t get to solicit your help or support on anything, any more, ever. And then, No Contact and Grey Rock as you sort out what settlement you and your young chums will need. He resigned as family member. Get business-like, give him his pink slip, and discharge his ass. You will not believe how much better you feel in a few weeks and a few months time. It’ll get better from there.

        • That was awesome, HopeandGloria.

          ICan–there’s your pep talk and your marching orders. YOU take control.

          • Thanks Tempest now I’m blushing…

            ICan, he chose to be with a woman who approves of infidelity. Obviously. She likes affairs! No wait a minute, she loves affairs! She had one! Well at least one?! She loves infidelity, it’s her kinda thing, and her new boyfriend also loves infidelity. He enjoyed having an affair so much he ended his stable and happy marriage and ruined his family’s lives because everything has to be all about prioritising him ‘for a change’, right? Splendid they’re both such big fans of having affairs and prioritising themselves ‘for a change’, right? Because it’s fun and a good life choice?

            • You are spot on. The OW has had 3 affairs all in his workplace that I’ve heard of through the grapevine. So yes she’s clearly ok with affairs. Hopefully she will heat on his sorry ass & I’ll get to laugh. For now I feel like crap. It’s my lowest ever. I’m heart broken for my kids especially. My 11 year old won’t see or speak to his Dad & it’s been 5 months. So sad.

        • HopeAndGloria, I read your post and this jumped into my mind:

          -My parties have all the big names and I greet them with the widest smile
          Tell them how my life is one big adventure
          and always they’re amazed when I show them ’round my house to my bed
          I had it made like a mountain range with a snow white pillow for my big fat head-

          Peter Gabriel “Big Time”

          Which then reminded me of Don MacLean’s “Everybody Loves Me, Baby, What’s the Matter With You?”

        • ICan, I can’t improve on HopeAndGloria’s advice. Just wanted to add my hugs and encouragement. It sucks right now, it’s the height of suckitude. And it will suck for some time. And then it will start getting better. Every one of us can tell you that from our own experience. Every one of us would like to make that pain disappear for you. We can’t, but we can support you daily while you navigate the shit storm. You deserve better. Be strong, wrestle your future from this zombie! Focus on yourself and your kids, not his shenanigans. You and the kids are going to be okay.

          • When I read this I couldn’t believe that my h actually said what chump lady quoted..I’m here aren’t I. Wow!

  • I’m really a nun, now send me a money order of USD 5,000,000 so that I can bring it back to my temple. Nevermind, that my temple is a mansion and a Corvette that I now own because I conned people like you. lol. No, I’m not a nun. Seriously the mindfuckery blows my mind.

    • I changed my mind. I princess in Zimbabwe. I receive big inheritance from late papa. I need nice person to send monies to in US. I no know you, but I choose you too give big money to. Give bank account number. I put big money in you account.

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