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UBT: “I’m in a Good Place Now”

happynowDear Chump Lady,

So two years ago my husband of 25 years left me for his technician, immediately moved her in, got her pregnant and they are now living their happy life with a 17-month old, while I struggle.

Anyway, we are still not divorced. It’s in process, but very expensive and we disagree on many key points. Mostly the point where he doesn’t want to give me anything, he just wants me to go away.

I had the pleasure (or not) of speaking to him yesterday about our daughter. Anyway, I received a text from him today. All I see is he’s happy, happy, happy with no regrets. Honestly it still hurts and I think I need him to be miserable for me to ever feel justification. Like, why can’t his girlfriend cheat on him? Or why can’t the baby belong to a different baby daddy? Why are they so stinking happy???

I’d really like you to use the UBT on this text.

I appreciate u picking up the phone and calling about (daughter) yesterday, but I’m in a very good place right now. My leaving was just a tad bit more complicated than just I wasn’t appreciated. So please don’t trivialize my life decisions. I do not do things on a whim. That is not my nature. I’m sorry u got hurt and sorry kids got hurt. I have talked to them and explained my thoughts. Hope u have a good day.



Dear Struggling,

Yes, don’t call him and remind him he has other children. Geez, quit being such a buzzkill. Don’t you know the effervescent, new baby scent has worn off your kids? He has another family now.

Seriously though — don’t communicate with him except in writing where his answers and non-answers can be documented. And do NOT try to call him up and shame him or discuss your or your kids’ pain. As I’ve said here before, you may as well try and shame a doorpost. He’s “happy” because he’s about an inch deep. No, your feelings do not matter to him. And yes, that’s the REAL him.

If you insist on plumbing his shallow depths, you’re going to get exactly what you got — mindfuckery.

So stop engaging, and more full-court press to the divorce finish line, okay? There’s nothing you can say that a fat settlement check can’t say better.

Now to the UBT:

I appreciate u picking up the phone and calling about (daughter) yesterday, but I’m in a very good place right now.

Thanks for the kibbles! Your distress reminds me that I’m super awesome powerful! And ignoring whatever it is you want from me gives me shivers of delight. Please don’t try and make me feel bad. I don’t feel much at all because my conscience is a tiny, withered prune pit.

But, since you asked (and I know that I Am The Most Important Person here) — I’m happy! Couldn’t be better!

Are you miserable? Great! More evidence that I’m superior in every way!

My leaving was just a tad bit more complicated than just I wasn’t appreciated.

My being a fuckwit is just a tad bit more complicated than just I-walked-out-on-my-family-and-got-an-employee-pregnant.

I wasn’t sufficiently appreciated… as being a total fuckwit.

So please don’t trivialize my life decisions.

My life is not a triviality. My obligations are a triviality.

I do not do things on a whim.

I’m a cold-hearted, calculating motherfucker.

That is not my nature.

Uh, actually cold-hearted, calculating motherfucker is my nature. If there were an astrological sign for fuckwit, I’d be in the disordered seventh house of the seventh sun.

I’m sorry u got hurt and sorry kids got hurt.

Sorry, not sorry! Want to see my latest baby pictures?

I have talked to them and explained my thoughts.

I discarded them and explained it with a little chat — “Daddy’s happy now!” We’re good.

Hope u have a good day.

Fuck off and die.

Ask Chump Lady

Got a question for the Chump Lady? Or a submission for the Universal Bullshit Translator? Write to me at [email protected]. Read more about submission guidelines.
  • Get that fat settlement check, be the sane parent for your kids, and live your life, authentically and on your terms. Then just sit back and enjoy the show, as his happy twisted little life inevitably implodes.

    The real beauty of it is that by the time that happens, you won’t much notice or care anymore. You will have been too busy living that life of your choosing, raising amazing kids, and maybe even falling in love with a person who deserves you.

    He might be off with whatever is behind Door # 3 by that time, and all you will feel is slight bemusement.

  • There is NOTHING that man can or will do that will ever leave you feeling anything but twisted. The UBT is dead on. Funny, without the UBT I would have not seen the me me in that message.

    No contact is a must. Your core is shattered, you gotta stop the bleeding so you can heal with more peace.

    • Agree totally.You need to close this guy down to protect yourself from more pain.
      I notice he uses the passive voice ..sorry you got hurt….not I am sorry I hurt you.He has no intention of taking ownership of what he did and his words read like those of a typical sociopath, blameshifting and justifying his behaviour.
      Communicate only by email about the kids and in the most clinical,detached manner possible.
      He sounds like a complete arsehole and though you don’t believe it now,one day you’ll be grateful he moved on to his next victim.
      Struggling , there is nothing this man is ever going to say or do to make you feel better.When I internalised that reality I began to feel better.Close that fucker down.

      • You’re right! What a crappy apology. I never looked at it that way.

        • Struggling surround yourself with people who love and support you,get out and about as much as possible,look after yourself physically,do things you enjoy and keep that fucker at as much distance as you can and eventually the pain will fade.Eliminate the possibility of his offloading his bullshit on to you by not engaging,except in the most robotic fashion and only about your kids.
          The arsehole will see he’s dealing with a changed woman and hopefully STFU.
          Hugs from Ireland ?

        • Struggling,

          I struggle at times too. I will echo what others are saying about no contact. I know it’s much more difficult when you have children, so really the best you can do is low contact. Just make an effort to make it as low as possible. Come up with a plan of when you will initiate or accept calls, texts, emails, whatever. I use text and email. If necessary, I can always print out the texts if it were legally necessary. The only thing you should discuss with him is when / where / how visitation will take place. Once you get a custody order in place, even that will no longer be necessary. You can choose to stick with the agreement and if he wants to change it up, simply refuse. As far as what you are legally obligated to inform him re. the kids’ doctor’s appointments and such, send a certified letter, return receipt requested. Make copies and attach the signature receipt for your records. This will protect you if he ever makes a legal claim you failed to inform him of anything important. As far as sports or after school activities, leave him in the dark. If the kids invite him, fine. If he asks for a schedule, give it to him. Otherwise, there is no need to communicate with him. If you do, it will undo your healing. Sending you hugs and warm wishes!!

        • Hi Struggling, I don’t often write on this board but I felt compelled to reach out after reading your story. How horrendous!!! How could he have discarded you so easily after being married a quarter of a century and for a virtual stranger in comparison!!???! It’s so normal for you to still be reeling from the utter shock of such betrayal. But there is a silverlinig to your situation althought I know that at the moment things look dim! Deedee is right he did you a favor in disguise,who wants this type of flaming self important douche around? Give his idyllic fake new life with the younger mother time to self combust…he’s no spring chicken she might have gotten involved with him merely because it is convenient to be the boss’s concubine and having access to financial ressources she most likely lacked. He is being stingy because deep down in his conciousness he knows he is only a means to an end for this woman. It’s not because he is so good looking and charming. In the meantime learn to live a fabulous life without Mr. Sparkles, he was not that great to begin with.

          • True. Really happy people don’t have to advertise. How happy they are. It was a calculated dig, because that’s who they are. Get a huge settlement and see how long the lovefest lasts.

            • THIS! If you’re truly happy, it shows. No need to spout off on every Facebook post, for all your social media fans to see. Oops! Did I say too much? 😉

              • Word, @Moose !!!! Right-o!!! The Evil One LOVES Facebook, etc. to boast of his tru wuv and Mrs. Dumb-Ass “likes” everything and chimes right in…pathetic!!!

                I’m proud to say that it has been over three months since I last peeped on either of their Facebook pages. It’s nothing but a show anyway. I just don’t get why he STILL hasn’t come right out and told me that they are married, or why he has to hide his wedding ring when he’s around me…ah, the ways of the disordered are such a mystery!!!!

          • FBI you are so on point. This is so true in my situation, I do trust they suck.
            My was 27 years, but I am in a much better place in my mind, heart and soul!

      • Spot on Deedee – “I notice he uses the passive voice ..sorry you got hurt….not I am sorry I hurt you.” – No accountability for his actions.

        I got the same passive voice from my ex-wife – “I can see the pain in your eyes, I can hear it in your voice, I see it in your face – but you must be strong.”

        • Uugh… reading that just made me enraged on your behalf. “You must be strong” to cope with this pain that mysteriously descended upon you. What a self-righteous bitch.

          • “You must be strong.” That bullshit is bad enough when it comes from well-meaning people; for it to come from a cheater who just blew up your marriage and life is guillotine-worthy.

            • I got, “I should have left you 5 years ago. That way you’d be farther along in accepting this.” WTF? As if my devastation would have been any different then.

              • I got a fair bit of him telling me he should have left when he started cheating (YA THINK?!) and then that if he wasn’t happy now he would leave.

                Why did I want to suffer the concept of reconciling with someone who wasn’t over the moon for making it up to me and WANTING TO STAY?

                I do think if he had left back when we had no kids or just one kid it would have been just as devastating at the time but not as hard to recover from vs being older, more kids, more obligations.

        • SureChumped, you’re right about the passive voice.

          For the last several months, when STBX would email he used an avatar that was the picture of his face in our bathroom.

          I saw the entire photo on D-day – the bottom half of that picture is his naked beer gut and tiny erect penis – he uses the photo for his Craigslist ads.

          Finally I wrote and said, “please change that picture.” He wrote back, “sorry you were offended but I like the way my hair looks.”

          Yeah – me being offended was the problem.

          • Gosh Roaring – what a tool he is. It’s like the 2 pictures (top & bottom half) is metaphoric of his multiple personalities.

            “Naked beer gut and tiny erect penis” – great riddance for you!!

          • Roaring–given your post on the Predator post, I’d say encourage the jackass to KEEP using that avatar–it depicts exactly who he is, and there is no way you’ll ever forget that he sucks.

        • My stbx said in one of our MC sessions “I know I disappointed her”. That was his pathetic attempt to “take ownership” of what he had done. He couldn’t even talk directly to me – he said this to our counselor about me. I was sitting right there. Disappointed? You How about blindsided, devastated, humiliated, hurt, disrespected and disgusted?

          • Oh My. I was disappointed when I got a bad haircut. I was disappointed when a work project didn’t turn out the way I wanted. Disappointed doesn’t quite fit the bill of total betrayal.

      • Yup. I got “I understand you’re hurt right now”. No acknowledgement of personal responsibility. None. It will never happen. OWhore isn’t getting a prize.

        • I got the “i hope you will understand one day” line from his affair partner. Ya, I’ll get over it and we will all be friends again. My reaction is the issue not their actions. fuck off…

  • Struggling, two years is very early on in their “special” relationship. Guaranteed he’s full of shit! I still see my ex as we are selling the home we shared and although he puts on a happy front, after being with him for 26 years I know it’s a front. They’re as shallow as a puddle of dog piss. Would they admit they’ve fucked up? Never! Most would rather eat rusty nails. The more they rub it into your face, the more it just smacks of their own insecurity and the need to prove to us they are happy because the disordered fucks are never happy and never will be no matter who they are with.

    • ding, ding, ding – right on the money, Aussie. I actually do talk to mine (I know, I know) and the more he lets little details of his new life slip in, the more I see that his new GF is living my old life. All of it – the sarcasm, the drinking, the annoyance with his constant aches and pains. And the cheating. He’s simply re-living the same life he keeps starting over and over with someone new. 50 yo serial cheaters do not change.

      Struggling – mine also used to tell me how happy he is in his new life. When I fully internalized what a fraud he still was, he stopped. It’s like the universe intervened once I “got it.” Repeat it to yourself – he’s a fraud. The same old fraud you married 25+ years ago. Your kids see it too – mine certainly does without a word from me. It’s a shame they have to know this about their parent, but it’s a good lesson in navigating Cluster Bs.

      • ChumpieAussie mate—you got that right sister (or dude?). “The more they rub it into your face, the more it just smacks of their own insecurity and the need to prove to us they are happy because the disordered fucks are never happy and never will be no matter who they are with.” I can picture X with his nose in the air, arms crossed over his chest, perpetual frown on his face, lower lip jutted out saying Yea it’s good that I’m with someone younger than my daughter and with a 2 yr old. As I turn 65. As I miss yet another milestone of my grandchildren. Yea, it’s all worth it.

        • I’m a chumped sister like many of us here. My ex turns 60 this year and his dick suddenly turned 30 (with the help of Viagra) cos he’s with someone 25 years younger than him! The fact she’s a gold digger has somehow not registered in that peanut sized brain of his. He said to me he’d drive me into the ground but he’s the one with the shovel digging and banging nails into his own coffin. Too bad, how sad, tell me how he’s going in ten years time, they want to destroy us chumps because they know we are stronger and smarter than they are. They end up digging their own grave. I’m going to buy him a new shovel to give to him, the other ones worn out.

          • Struggling, stay strong. I am shy of one 19 months xh out of home, and 14 months divorced.
            Yep xh was screwing, a howorker, 30 years younger! Yes 30 years younger!!! My oldest 25 yep. And son 23. My kids was supremely grossed out, and yes we are grandparents…but check this out, owhore, who left for 5 months, came back and yesss there is a baby due in two months! Guess they gonna get to know each other real well.
            yes, 27 years and poof gone in under 4 months, affair time I heard so much bullshit, she can have it. No need to worry they are so marvelous and happy, liars, cheats, dumbasses, lazy fucks.
            So now daddy, grandpa is starting a new family at 53! Yes the grandfather fucker is having a baby in two fine months! Awesome life for “the happy couple,” plus 1. Mmm

            So borh predator and criminal will be parents. Fantasy, smack into reality. Like someone reminded me on this site, after owhore is done changing baby diaper, she will be changing cheater too.
            no facebook fanfare for either of these two. I do not use fb myself, however both emy kids do, any ole grandpa and baby mamma, literally have gone underground with this. Wow arent most people excited about first born. Happiness, sure!
            Simply amazing. Karma train pulled in!
            This assclown said ” i know I hurt you really badly.” I dont respond, but “you can talk to me.” Really, cause he actually said oh im depressed i just want to come home.” I had to remind him that he told me and kids go fuck yourselves. I can only say Enjoy your new family and happy life to the new couple who are desperate,dismissive, depraved, disgusting, delusional, deprived, depressed, dumb, degenerate, douchbags. That felt marvelous.
            I appreciate you all!

      • Another ‘thing’!!!! They actually are all alike movin_on!

        the sarcasm, the drinking, the annoyance with his constant aches and pains. And the cheating. He’s simply re-living the same life he keeps starting over and over with someone new. 50 yo serial cheaters do not change.

        ..and bitching…satan bitched about everything…every little thing!

        UGH! Run Struggling! You just dodged a bullet and exterminated a pest! Someday (hopefully soon) you will be so grateful!

        • Yep, same here— constantly in pain/aching, never being “happy”…he’s 37, and his OWife is 26, he thinks he’s a “big poppa”….more like big poooopa!!!!

          Piece of shit…I prefer to think of his health issues now as his guilty conscience eating away his body. I look back at myself at 26 and I would NEVER be with an unhealthy 37-year-old…GAH!!!

  • “I’m a cold hearted, calculating motherfucker”

    This, and repeat, all new chumps please take note………I am 4 years out and this has only finally sunk in….

  • No more phone calls. Email only. If he isn’t answering emails about kids, switch to something court recognized like family wizard so you can document his non-responses and limit communication. How old are your children? If they are late teens or older, and aren’t disabled, they have to deal with their father on their own. No being the intermediary. This is very important — they need to understand who he is and they have to hold him accountable if he lets them down.

    If you have joint decision making, a simple I am taking X to the doctor email suffices. Or J wants to change from Y school to Z school. Make him initiate any discussion if he disagrees. Don’t ask permission or his opinion.

    If you are in the US, is your attorney a litigator. It is time to stop negotiations and say “see you in court” if your attorney (again must be a litigator) thinks you can prevail. If your attorney is not a litigator, it is likely time for a consultation with one.

    The text sounds like you may have engaged a bit more than just about your daughter. (Did you mention that you were sorry he didn’t feel appreciated or something along those lines?) Gently, you are giving him tremendous power here. Lots of kibbles. Don’t do that. He isn’t going to give you what you want.

    Communication only about kids (and see above, only when it really, really needs to come from you) and finances, if necessary. Switch to only email. And get this divorce finished. At some point, see you in court is the logical response to an unacceptable settlement offer. Make sure your attorney is good enough as a litigator and get a court date.


    • “Don’t do that. He isn’t going to give you what you want.”

      If you really think about it, what is it that we want? Even the gods transcended down on him to allow him to see the errors of his way and he did a 180 and said all the right stuff…. it still would not be good enough. There is absolutely nothing bad or good that comes from their mouths that has any merit or validity at all.

      If they are mean, if they are kind… at the end of the day… what happened cannot be unhappened. Our only choice it to let go, heal and get to the other side of this. It happened, it is unfair, it sucks BUT it happened and we have no choice to listen to all the advise of CL and CN and experiences of others to slowly but surely get to the other side of this. I am nearly 2 years out and I know I got at least that much more to go. I know me, this will take 3-5 years to really get there. It has me pretty f’d up with two people in me. One hurt and a hot mess and the other strong as a storm ready to tear it up.

      • Yes, JackiesDone, I call the 2 people the worrier vs the warrior. The Warrior kicked ass, got us moved and divorced in 4 months and the Worrier kept us trying to make it work for 20+ years

      • This is brilliant. All I want right now is that he remain in his little “happy place” until the divorce is finalized, the house is in my name, and all the paperwork is done. He’s being cooperative with everything so far and he can remain there until I’m finally at meh. Then if he has a change of heart or realizes what a complete fool he has been (not holding my breath) I will be completely done and wont care. I’m playing nice until everything is how I want it, then he can listen to the crickets.

        I truly feel for all of those that have underage kids that keeps you in necessary contact. I think having to deal with that along with everything else is absolutely horrible. Mine connected with a woman who has two young kids and one is autistic (so I’ve heard, but don’t know). He is my no means patient. At first I was laughing at the possibility of him getting her pregnant. It would be perfect for her because then he would have to support the child until 21 regardless of what happened. But I’m actually hoping that doesn’t happen. I would feel bad for any child that had the two of them as parents.

    • So in the U.S., not all lawyers are litigators? I think here in Canada, anyone called to the bar is also a litigator. Then again, with so few people spread over such a huge landmass, we have to be polyvalent. You have to be able to drive a Zamboni AND a snowplough. 🙂

  • Dear Struggling,

    I hope you can be meaner for a bit. If you can’t, hire a lawyer who can. If your lawyer has been okay with the slow process, you may need a new one. If your lawyer has been telling you to make decisions or play hardball and you’ve been reluctant, start taking the advice you are paying for.

    You say the divorce is dragging on because he doesn’t want to give you anything. Screw that. “Giving” has no place in this discussion. You OWN at least half of what the marital property includes, and if he ‘s resisting that division, he’s trying to STEAL (more) from you. Ignore every protest he makes or explanation of what’s “fair” that he puts forth. If he understood FAIR, he would not have cheated on you.

    Get mad. Get mean. Get righteous and INSIST on what is yours and what you’d like to have besides that. You might not get it all, but he TOOK your marriage and your security and your family structure. Feel free to DEMAND a few things in return along with what is already yours.

    Recovering from this horrible experience will take a long time, but if you are still struggling with the formal division of property and divorce, you cannot even start to get the space and mental freedom that you need to move forward.

    Borrow the voices, pragmatism, and the strength of the people on this list. Pretend to be them when you feel yourself shrinking up or doubting yourself. Eventually, you’ll grow into your own new voice and new life, but lean on CN for now. You can do it.

      • Oh I was so there and it took two years for his happy soul mate once in a lifetime to blow up. Even if you don’t get to see it, it will. Fuck him and focus on you – you deserve so much more than this. Keep telling yourself that every hour xxx

        Mine dragged on for a year. I did exactly what was written a few posts up….’see you in court’. It worked because he knew he’d have to pay more that way. Find his weak spots about money and push there. You deserve so much more than this. Keep telling yourself that.

        It took me a long time to get mean and go no contact. They thrive on your pain, but try and focus on your road now, try imagining your happy future….its there I promise. Cut him off, it’s really really hard but only then will you start to heal. Get angry, cry, howl – just don’t call him or into your one precious life. You’ve got this xx

    • Rock on with your bad self, Eilonwy! Good advice.
      Love and healing to Struggling and all of CN ❤️

  • See also Tracy’s brilliant posts on “Cool.Bummer.Wow.” and charm, rage and self-pity. I had to read them everyday for a long time for it those concepts to sink in. Now I have the UBT in my head and the responses to go with whatever ex is saying.

    Go get that divorce finalized.I promise that you’ll wake up to meh sooner than you think.

  • What are these “places” these cheaters go to, anyway? He’s in a good place. Huh? When my ex-husband was treating me cruelly before the separation/divorce and I couldn’t understand it, he explained to me that he was “in a dark place right now.” Of course that turned out to be code for Schmoopie’s vagina. Why not just tell me I was being re-placed? Oh yeah, I forgot… CAKE!!

    • The place is Planet Narcissist.

      There should be a shuttle service…

    • My partner told me about all the “places” he visits as well. The dark place, the non-committal place, etc. … I guess he’s really into sightseeing? I’m fine here though, #kthxbye

          • GOYSCA – Cheater’s Atlas is a brilliant name, I can see a great cartoon for that one!!!

          • Please include the land of “Starting Over.” Starting over from what? Only the cheater knows. But you get your record completely cleaned when you get there. From what? Oh yah, nothing. It’s just somewhere we need to go for no reason at all.

            • Don’t forget the lands of “moving on” and “no longer living in the past.”. That’s the two resorts mine claims to be visiting.

              • How about the “I’m not going to let what I did define me?” resort? That’s where my POS is.

        • Yup, you can call the post – Big Bird visits the black hole

        • And they go to those places to “Think about what they want” or to “Make necessary changes” or to “Find themselves.”

          • Haha yes, my ex wife needed to “Learn and Grow”…fucking good one ..

      • My x would say he had a lot going on in his head, a lot he was dealing with. Now I know what that means. Fucktard

        • My ex said the same shit. I envision nothing going on in their heads but a big truffle-sniffing pig rooting around for kibbles.

        • Mine was vexed by the darkness or bleakness that would occur when he would turn down the street to come home, you know like in a movie or book when something horrible was going to happen… I suppose the weather has cleared since he has moved back into that home spends time with her there… Divorce will fix that… fire sale on properties anyone??? No more bad mojo after that!!!

    • Interesting observation. My ex visited all of those places (dark place, good place, uncertain place). It must be yet another cheater play book standard. I guess they all got distracted (squirrel!) on the way to honest place, remorseful place, and basic-fucking-decency place.

      • Interesting observation. My ex visited all of those places (dark place, good place, uncertain place). It must be yet another cheater play book standard. I guess they all got distracted (squirrel!) on the way to honest place, remorseful place, and basic-fucking-decency place.

        The cheater hangouts “(dark place, good place, uncertain place)” are all just derivatives of Fantasyland. “Honest place, remorseful place, and basic-fucking-decency place” are the boring parts of the park they race through to get to Fantasyland so they can use-up their E-Ride tickets/coupons.

        • I have to chime in tonight. Mine wanted to go to his “Happy Place” wherever the heck that is.

  • Reading the text actually made me sick. This is the type of guy you just want to punch in the face, so smug, condescending and indifferent. His life will eventually blow up but for now you have to get on with your life and I think you need to set your kids straight that their father is a defect and they should go no contact as well. Doubt he’ll even notice, so should be easy. Get a pit bull lawyer and get divorced already.

    • Yeah. And the dismissive Have A Nice Day at the end. I can imagine his smirk. Id like to smack that smirk off his face.

      • I hope she takes him to the cleaners. Take everything! Even stuff you dont want but he does, so you can throw it out afterwards. Thats therapeutic you know.

  • As with all cheaters, zero emotional intelligence. A black void where a soul should be.
    Trust that they suck. Trust it implicitly. For the rest of your life. Trust that one thing.

    • Wow, my ex cheater actually said those very words to me ” I have a black void where my soul should be” when he asked me to leave.

      • I hope, once you recovered from the shock, that you ran out the door.

  • Please remember that your Cheater is great at pretending to be . . . whatever. Someone who is too impatient to wait for a divorce to move in with his AP, and to be willing to have a new baby with the AP before he is divorced and they are married — well, I would say that instant gratification is his main priority. He may end up switching channels to a new AP and abandoning this one before you are actually divorced (in fact, that may have something to do with his dragging his feet, “Sorry babe, I can’t marry you while I am still married to her”, “Sorry babe, you can’t have ownership in anything while she is still part owner, legally.” Great excuses. Please don’t think I am feeling sorry for AP — I am sure she will get exactly what she deserves to get for being such a fuckwit herself, and soon. Just because he is pretending to be happy doesn’t mean he actually is. If he is truly as disordered as he sounds, he will never be happy because the grass will always be greener in another place for him.

    Nothing is as predictive for future actions as past actions and attitudes. AP’s who do not pay attention to how an ex is being treated, and talked to, and about are missing the point., If he did it to you with her, he will do it to her with someone else, and someone else, and someone else. Serial cheaters and liars and thieves are career criminals.

    Meantime, stop worrying about his state of happiness and concentrate on your state of being. Use this time to find out who you really are and what you need and evaluate what you are looking for in ANY future relationship with friends, family, and possible romantic partners. Work on feeling good about your life, setting goals for where you want to be, and working out a plan to get there. Please heed the advice already given by others about moving the legal process along. The sooner you are free of this POS, the better.

    • It’s worth noting that many of us thought that the Cheaterpants we lived with was happy with us. So putting up a false front comes naturally to them.

  • Cut your loses take what you get and

    To start a new life and this bad memory… he’s someone else’s headache! He will do the same thing to her as soon as he gets bored!

  • What a complete non-human assbag. Thank god he explained his “thoughts” to his children. May a tractor trailer full of manure overturn on his car on the freeway.

    • My cheater took the opportunity to blameshift our children’s “change in attitude towards him” to me badmouthing him. Im his mind, his actions would not have brought this on all by themselves. Of course.
      He also wrote that “he had made some mistakes in his life, but none like this” pertaining to his cheating. And that “only time will tell”.
      UBT that one, please!

      • Damn, liveandlearn, we were married to identical twins. Youngest daughter won’t talk to him? My fault–I alienated her from him. He’s now telling friends he just made that little mistake fucking grad-whore, but he came back to the marriage afterwards, didn’t he? And I just couldn’t forgive. So sad that he’s now living the life of Reilly while Tempest, well, she’s the sad, lonely dog lady because she can’t get over the fabulousness that is Hannibal. #epicfail

        • Standard psychopath behavior. My friend was married to the biggest loser, cheater, unemployed, self-involved dickhead that has ever lived. He “went to visit family” TWO years ago at thanksgiving and just never came back! Has seen his kids (by his own decsion) about ten times. Guess what? SHE’S keeping them from him. They don’t want to talk to him because SHE’S bad-mouthing him. And what is mind boggling is he actually believes that crap. The dude deserves a visit from Terminex.

        • Identical triplets. Who uses “pod people” on this post?

          Within weeks of him moving out he blasted me with hateful text messages because he was pissed that I enforced my boundaries (thanks to CL). He then calls my son’s fiance a “bitch” for telling me he crossed the boundary. When my son told him that he will not talk that way about his fiance, his response was to text me that I was turning his sons against him. He continued the text blasting with no reply from me until he said that I was “vindictive” and again accused me of turning them against him. I responded, “No need for me to say a word, your behavior is doing enough.” That shut him up for a very long time and now he’s put on the mask of cooperation. I know it’s a mask, but I’m using it until everything is final. He’s such an idiot.

      • Yup, daughter’s depression, anxiety, and suicide attempt? My giving her inappropriate information, not due to his actions! No way!

        • The blameshifting about the children is particularly egregious in your case, zyx321. Evil. There’s just no other word for it.

  • I dont wish asswipe dead or sick not anymore anyway but i got the sorry you got hurt speil. I do wish him the worst life has to offer and that his dick rots completely off. Great ubt!

    • Kar, my ex used the ‘I’m sorry you got hurt’ line on our daughter, after both kids started figuring out who he was. She was FURIOUS!!!! I wish I had had as good a built in UBT as she seems to have!

      At least when he told me ‘I’m sorry things didn’t work out between us’, I recognized it for the bullshit it was!

    • A friend asked me the other day if the dickhead was dead yet. I don’t have to wish the bastard dead, my friends and family are doing that for me. I made him coffee to which he commented it tastes funny, did I poison it. Nope I said, your not worth it and I don’t want you dead, I’d rather you live a long miserable life. Dead eyed stare from the fuckwit!

  • I’m sorry you’re gong through this, most of us have been there. My ex and wifetress are living their super sparkly life and love nothing more than to rub my nose in it. Often. OW is reveling in the fact that she “won” and he encourages the kids to think of her as they’re “real mom” as call me their “birth Mom”. I get your understandable, seething rage on many levels. I think the hardest part on the road to “meh” is trying to wrap your mind around the fact that the man that vowed before God to love and protect you forever, the man who kissed babies with you in the delivery room has “turned” into a cruel stranger that not only abandoned you and your children in an instant without so much batting an eyelash, while delighting in moving you in the process. It’s like watching a horror movie that you can’t ever turn off. If I hear the words “Get over it” from one more person, I might go postal. The truck is to realize the person you married was a hologram. He never really existed other than what you tonight he was in your mind. You know why? Because you’re a good person. You see the positive in people and love with all your heart. So my advice to you is to realize that you’re never going to “break through” to reach the person you shared a bed with for all of those years. NEVER. EVER. Want to get even? Like, really, really even? Act like you could give a flying fuck. All communications from here on out should be robotic. Yes. No. Okay. That’s all he gets of you. See, he’s going to keep the smug cool guy thing up forever. He’s gone. There’s no epiphany. There’s no apology. There’s no soul. He’s NEVER going to care and actually enjoys watching you in pain. This is fun for him when you call. After all, he’s a celebrity in his own mind and your the groupie. This is your punishment for not worshipping him. Fuck that. As Ivana Trump once said, “Don’t get mad…get everything!”. Hugs from Florida.

    • Is it really super sparkly unicorn land if they drag you into it?

    • Their “Birth Mom”?????Are you fucking kidding me? I hope you explained to your children how evil that is. Birth Mom means you gave birth and then weren’t part of their lives after that. It means you gave them to someone else to be a part of a different family. Not there to care for them and love them and read the stories and make the meals and wipe their noses. No offense to anyone who had to give a child up. Birth Mom could be a title of respect in a different situation. But trying to minimize your role like that is, like I already said, evil. There’s no other word for it.

      • Yep. My kids told me that’s what she’s telling them. I could actually win an award for the most smug mistress on earth. She’s constantly trying to one-up me and never seems to tire of it. She can’t have children and basically wanted to “steal my life”. She know he was married and pressured him with bloodied fingernails. (I am aware that the blame less solely with him, mind you). But she’s just such an arrogant annoying little bitch. What’s worse is that the kids love her; she does crafts 24/7 and I have to work now, I can’t compete with that. (I was a SAHM for 10 years, but now she gets to be a SAHM with her adopted thanks to her homewrecking talents). She is the queen if Pickmeland. My kids are 8 & 10 and are innocent kids that love everybody. She even had the nerve to write #thanksjulie on Instagram under her wedding picture as a jab to me. (They got married on our anniversary, just to spite me). My life has turned into a lifetime movie network special. Wish I was kidding.

        • The whole situation/whore is beyond disgusting. Mine seems to want my life too, she’ll be a bit surprised that while she can have him, she isn’t getting to be me.

          You have my wholehearted sympathy. It won’t make you feel better but think about things this way – her focus isn’t on her new husband, the man he is and who he is, it’s on you. Her obsession is with you. She got married on your wedding anniversary. She’s sucking up to your kids. She wants to be you, but she can’t because you are all kinds of original awesomeness and she is nothing but a derivative stalker with no personality of her own.

          I’m sorry that your kids are still a little young and buying into this shit. Just be the sane one, be yourself and remember, her shit will get real old with time. She can’t go around being you forever.

            • finally awake. you are spot on about the obsession being with her. the big giant heads girlfriend didn’t want him as much as she wanted my role in our business and the recognition that went with it. his ego was big enough to promise her all this. neither of them realize I was carrying HIM. when i took my house and my car and the business went to shit. when she saw HE was all she was getting…she left.

          • Boy that one is a real whore for the ages. Asswipes whore is like that too. Just wipe out my existance doesnt even want me to be mom anymore. Well she can have the sperm donor my kids never! Feel for you and it really really sucks your ex and his whore are putting your kids through that madness. Fucking bitch pos the both of them. My kids are grown but they see right through their dad and his whore. They deal with him rarely nowadays and whore juice will never be step mom or mom. Just their fathers gf or wife. My children are smarter and more moral than both of them. Yours will see through the bs too. Big huge hugs to you and i send bad juju to your ex and his whore.

            • I’m waiting for the day when they figure it out. Some days it feels like they’ll fool them forever.

        • Whoa, Chumpstruggle.

          I know your ASSHOLE is an asshole but WHO IS THIS BITCH?

          Is she in middle school?

          This is one of those times when I’d like to walk up to her swinging a lead filled baseball bat humming, “somebody’s gonna get it” under my breath…

          Protect your children – they’re sick as fuck.

        • Chumpstruggle — it takes a lot to gob smack me — but W.T.F?!!!! I can think of several places I’d like to shove her hashtag.

          Just wow.

          • I have never come across such a horrible person as she. Truly. She delights in trying to prove to me that she’s superior in every possible way and NEVER gets tired of it. It’s been almost 3 years and she and him are just exhausting. They live 2 states away and are always diminishing and degrading my every move me via phone contact with the children and saying how “Mommy is no fun, it’s so boring living with Mommy. But you’d much rather live here with your new Mom, right? She’s the one that really loves you, see how she’s always doing things with you? She’d be a much better Mom to you guys. Mom doesn’t really love you”. I wish I was fucking joking. And the OW gets such a high from his praise. She’s convinced herself I’m so jealous of her and prances around in skimpy clothes and is always smiling at me with this evil look. Barf.

            CL, I’ve been thinking about writing my situation to you for quite some time. The reason being, is that I haven’t found any advice that can match my super fucked up situation as far as a super malicious OW/EH combo and relate. I guess I’m just lucky that way. Ugh…

            • I would speak to your attorney about parental eavesdropping. There was just a case in New York, that protects a parent’s right to listen in and for that information to be used. I am way over simplifying here and it wasn’t in the federal courts so it may not have apply, but worth asking. They way their are talking to your children is likely alientation and a Judge would not approve.

              How often do they see your kids?


              • I agree. You should really talk to an attorney about this. At the very least get some proof and use it to get them a psych evaluation and hopefully get their contact down to supervised only. She’s a bitch and she needs to be slapped down as one.

            • That pod woman and your pod ex both need a bully beat down. What a fucking bitch! I will help with the beating.

        • Whoa, she is psychotic and your ex is an idiot. Same wedding anniversary, trying to take your place as the kids mom, is just bat shit crazy. This would be hilarious to see play out if your children were not involved.

          • They enjoy tormenting me, it’s their favorite hobby, next to bodybuilding, of course.

            • Bodybuilding! Typical somatic narc hobby. Not saying ALL bodybuilders are narcs but most narcs will become gym rats. They will eventually turn on one another, just a matter of time.

        • Marrie don your anniversary? That is soooooo weird. Could your asshole not remember a new date. (betting he never remembered your anniversary anyway)
          That birth mom shit is pure evil!!!!!!!
          I’m so sorry this is part of your life.
          When Roaring is done with the baseball bat I’d like to take what’s left and run over it with my car…..many times.

          • Knowingly married on our anniversary, proud of it, put up timeclocks on all of they’re social media for the big countdown. You can’t mature this type of shit up if you tried. The really annoying thing is that she’s so damn smug and constantly trying too provoke me. We should bring back tar and feathering people in public. And I mean it this time.

            • Gah..sorry for the typos from autocorrect…I’m a grammar freak.

            • Talk about affairing down to a bottom feeder.
              Hey, she can have the cheating, lying thief since she thinks he’s the man for her. Be grateful she took him off your hands. Clearly she is as disordered as he is. She can have your leftovers – if she has any grey matter, she’ll figure out why you did not finish.
              Get your kids in therapy and continue being the sane parent.
              Keep fighting the Good Fight!

            • This subject has been discussed here many times, but the psycho is feeding off one upping you. First your husband and now the kids. She thrives off chaos and has set her sights on you as her enemy. Try as best you can to disengage from the triangle she is trying to maintain. I am curious, how did mutual friends and his family take the same wedding day to the OW?

              • Only my Narc XMil, Narc XStepfil, her parents, her adopted child and my poor confused children. She made my son the ring bearer and my daughter was her flower girl/maid of honor. Everyone else has disowned him.

              • I agree ignore the bitch, refuse to engage with her. See my kids are grown and know me quite well so if i ran ran into her and say look kids thats the pond scum dad is currently using as a cum receptacle they would laugh right in front of her. Yours are much younger than mine so i expect grace to be used. She wants you to engage you ignor her it will drive her mad if she knows she cant get under your skin. Marry on your aninversary. Tell anyone that day ment nothing to your ex then why would it now!

              • I do ignore them both. Drives them crazy. They all about crossing boundaries to keep me engaged. That’s why we’re back in court I believe. I’m the glue that holds them together; they’re “Team Sparkly” and I’m their favorite target.

              • Chump, during that court session, get some proof and nail that bitch’s balls to the wall with a psych evaluation. Or at least, proof shes an unfit person to be around your children and that your fuckwit ex is condoning that shit.

                Just reading that story makes me want to drag the whore around by her hair and slam her face into a brick wall. Repeatedly.

            • I am horrified that you are having to go through this. This is one of the worse things that can happen.

              So she wants your life huh? Maybe you should put up your own countdown clock to how much time is left in their marriage before he cheats on her? (don’t really do this)

              She’s a class A Bitch.

            • Chump,struggle, I am thinking steroids. Their behavior has that aggression written all over it. I agree this sounds like parental alienation. Talk to your atty about options.

              • You are correct, they’re both on steroids. I’m asking that the courts have them both drug tested, as well.

        • Chumpstruggle – I’ve never heard of anything so outrageous. She is emotionally abusing your children with the Birth Mother stuff. I am so sorry that you have to have any sort of contact with that soulless skank. It’s mind-blowing that the man you thought you’d married thinks that this bitch is a quality person. He obviously has met his disgusting match. You should hashtag her back #no-thankYOUwhore.

          • Bahaha! This woman is also the hashtag queen. #he’sminenow #I’mkeepinghimforever #powercouple. They’re both bodybuilders, so they always part their swimsuit couple photos constantly. #losers

            • How about #obsessedwithmyex #adulterers #emotionallyabusive #wannabes–for starters?

              I think it’s worth talking to a first-rate child therapist about how to handle this abusive behavior? And a call to your attorney? You may be able to limit visitation or get supervised only if they are alienating, as it appears they are. Document, document, document. The therapist may have good ideas about how to deprive them of their attention kibbles. So sorry you have these #losers to deal with.

              • Agreeing with LAJ–her trying to claim she is their “real mother” and you are not is emotional abuse. Idiots like that don’t understand logic, only consequences. Involve a lawyer and shut that nonsense down.

              • I have tons of documentation so I plan on nailing him. The problem is, my son (the younger scapegoat) told me this information. My daughter ( the golden child) tried to respond to what my son says by trying to convince me she didn’t say that. I have zero physical proof other than her hashtag post. The problem is that the courts just don’t care. They don’t understand Spaths or Narcs and if you mention those labels, it only makes you sound like the crazy one. It’s frustrating.

            • Chumpstruggle – I am so sorry you and your kids have to deal with this crazy wifetress!

        • The OW are truly a piece of work. I know I have known her for 10 years. The first I met her I told another wife in the office to look out for that vulture. She wanted my life & got it! Complete with vacations to the same places & repeating cute little sticky notes love letters. Nothing original & she is fine with it. He is her meal ticket & she isn’t going anywhere!

          But seriously, the same wedding anniversary? That takes the cake!

          • I hear ya, these women just baffle the hell out of me. Were they raised by wolves? No wait…that’s insulting to wolves. Wolves could have actually done a better job. I’ve learned that these woman WANT you to see how they’ve won. But guess what? They’ll never “be us”, you know why? Because we’d never knowingly be so horrible as to pull some shit like this. They need to eat makeup so they can be pretty on the inside. Put on your haterblockers and keep your head up, Struggle. They only feel gratified by diminishing you and glorifying her. But you can’t turn a crow into a swan. And you sure as fuck can’t keep a good woman down!

            • Chump Struggle,

              I can commiserate with you. The OWhore cum OWife in my case has a similar personality and has done similar, although not quite as outrageous stuff as this. I utterly and thoroughly sympathize with you. It is exceedingly awful. Let me just say, however, my father’s second wife (although not an OW – my mother was a cheater) was of this caliber as well. She was insecure and disordered and tried to interject herself as my “mother” because I was around 13 and had issues with my mother at the time.

              What I can tell you is these women cannot help being themselves and as your children get older and develop more wisdom and are not as pliable, they will begin to see her true colors as she will begin showing more and more of them. She may, depending on circumstances, begin to compete with them for their father’s attention (if they are still together by then) and her resentment may begin to manifest itself in all kinds of horrible ways.

              My mother played it very cool and never engaged the deluded piece of crap who my father married and who kept trying to get pregnant in order to have her child replace me in my father’s attention and affection. My mother pretended like her existence was some footnote in our lives and ignored her completely. My father was a good but weak man and was no match for the viper with which he had cast his lot. And she was never able to conceive a child. As I matured and my relationship with my own mother matured and became better and I could no longer be manipulated by the wife, her resentment began to be a visible and concrete thing. Eventually, there came a point where she did something so unforgiveable that I completely cut off contact with her and told my father that she and I could never occupy the same space again. She never laid eyes on three of my four children and I never saw her again in life or death, as I refused to even attend her funeral.

              It is extremely difficult and painful (I am so sorry what I put my mother through) but try to navigate this as best you can. Your children will eventually begin to recognize, as long as you teach them good values, that there is something wrong with her and the way she speaks of you and interacts with them regarding you and your place in their lives. Time, patience and endurance is on your side. It is the shittiest of the shit sandwiches – a veritable buffet piled high with shit sandwiches – but be the sane and consistent parent. It will pay off in the end. ((BIG, BIG HUGS)) to you.

              • Thank you, I needed this today. This whole situation has me worn down. I feel like they always win when it comes to fooling my children. I’ll just have to stay patient.

              • It’s right enough what you say, Chump Princess. Time is on Chump Struggle’s side. With behaviour like she is demonstrating (same wedding date, ‘real mom’, hash tags and all), she is a ticking timebomb.

                The children will eventually see through her. That much is clear. In all likelihood, the cheater ex will probably tire of her batty tendencies, too. She clearly is not happy in herself.

                The jealous actions that she reveals are probably only the tip of the slightly-mental iceberg. Imagine what’s going on inside her head. To do the things she has done indicates that her mind is probably a cesspool of bitterness, hate, jealousy, with a touch of obsession, all writhing about, like a big vat of slugs. Yak.

                As I said before, tick tick tick tick BOOOOOOOM!

              • Off the crazy train, I’m just hoping that some justice comes her way at some point. She’s been karma bulletproof thus far. I try to just focus on being happy, but now they’ve dragged me back into their circus again. I don’t think they’re ever going to leave me alone.

            • Remember, Chump Struggle, that your kids are really young. No one will ever be able to replace you in their lives. And all of this #i’mkeepinghimforever stuff will look pretty foolish when one or both of them cheats again. Start the clock running, because it will happen. Chances are what they are hoping for is the kids will press to live with them and they can avoid child support. #nothappening

              The other good thing will be when the kids get a bit older and their lives with their peers are more important to them. Dad and StepSchmoopie will be roadblocks in their need to hang out with their friends. And it is a good thing for you to be working because work helps keep us chumps sane. In most cases :).

        • The Chump struggle is real, on reading this my back went so rigid that I stood up. That is appalling conduct. I wish there was a way for the entirety of CN to collaboratively express horror and dismay for the treatment you have endured.

          On the other hand, IMO, the karma bus has struck your fuckwit. Look who he gets to live with ~~ for now. This is justice. She does not do this just to you. She is character disordered. And that goes everywhere with her.

          Re the kids . . . they are smart. They will sort it out. She can’t hide her essence from them or fool them forever.

          • Thank you Virago. I know the karma train is coming, but gah…jus taking so long to arrive! They’ve just filed a motion for full custody now claiming I’m unfit. (With petty claims and zero evidence. It’s just a fun way to financially abuse me some more..wheee!). I just want them to leave me the alone, but they just seem hell bent on fucking with me forever. I’m starting to lose hope that the karma train is ever going to pull into the station. It’s pretty depressing.

              • Yup, it could be about not paying support or a pathetic scare tactic so she’ll lower child support or waive it altogether.

              • Exactly my thoughts as well. They don’t REALLY want the kids, they just don’t like paying me anymore. Getting on the way of her new SAHM status and bodybuiling hobby.

            • Chump Struggle–I’m sure the petition won’t fly, but what support of your parenting skills can you bring to the legal battle? Do you have a therapist? do the children? Time to start roping in professionals now, and documenting EVERY case of “I’m your real mom” nonsense from OWife. Save every piece of evidence with those disgusting hashtags; judges won’t look kindly on that kind of manipulation.

              • Tempest, he’s got nothing. My kids are both involved in sports, I coach my daughter’s team, they’re both in the gifted program. He’s got NOTHING. The whole order claims my kids are wearing deplorable clothing (I work in engineering, and I have all the receipts to prove they dress to the nines), that I bock communication and visitation ( again, I have all the phone records and email exchanges pricing otherwise) but mostly, the order is about how I block the ow from communicating with my children and that I talk bad about her. ( which I don’t, but I have told them what she is, the short pg version, and the reason being is that I want them to know that leaving your family like this is morally wrong. They were telling my kids all kinds of garbage and I was forced to set the story straight). So basically, the order is all about her.

        • Chump Struggle, Oh my… YOU definitely as a chump have a tough row to hoe with THAT ho/wifestress. Holy crap! She is the queen conniving BITCH of all time! My best advice as a criminal defense lawyer is BE CAREFUL. She is not below doing anything to get what she wants. She is what I call a fellow woman hater and despises other women who are happy so she plots and spins her web accordingly. She reminds me of a former co-worker who was the master manipulator in our office and would and could step on anyone who got in her way. Take care.

          • Thanks Hope49, you are right. We’re back in court because they’re trying to get full custody because I’m just such an awful mother and the children need to live with her because, well golly, she is just a better mom than me and the kids need her. It’s draining to say the least.

            • Ugh…this is so hideous. Hope49 makes a valid point about the type of woman that would do this kind of thing. My XH and wife tress filed Injunctions Against Harrassments and Restraining Orders against me. All full of fantasy and lies. My XH was such a gentle guy until the affair started. I know this stuff came from the whore – my XH was also not creative and very lazy. My attorney told me that “This crazy bitch is trying to destroy you personally.” My attorney told me to move, change my number – essentially hide. Some whores are predators.

              • Omg that sucks, Cindy! Hugs!! This is why courts need to give us Chumps more power to keep our dignity and protect our children from these lunatics.

            • There’s nothing more deplorable than the corts allowing themselves to be a tool for abuse. These cases should have merit to proceed. Since they don’t, please discuss with your attorney the possibility of them paying your legal fees.

        • Oh my God, got married on your wedding anniversary?!?!?! Holy fuck dude!!! That is beyond fucked up. #kissmyassbitch!!!!

          The Evil One and Mrs. Dumb-Ass got married close to our anniversary- same month at least. I still don’t know which day exactly, but the fat fucker didn’t bother to send me an invite or wedding announcement, damn, I had the perfect gift picked out for them too!!! #NOT

          The level of her bitchiness astounds me, and I am seething for you!!! This woman needs her fucking ass whipped for sure!!! Body builder or not, Karma train can’t run her over soon enough!!! I know it truly sucks being sucked into their narcissitic-vortex-of-fucked-upness, but stay mighty!!!!

          Our daughter is non-verbal/Autistic to a certain extent, so I don’t hear all the babble about Mrs. Dumb-Ass/step-Mommy, thank God.

          My sons with EXH#1 had to deal with their step-mom making comments and jabs at my expense for years, and I had to do the hard swallow and seethe about it later, but to them I would just shrug and say, “Oh well, haters gonna hate!” or something like that to them or we would just laugh at her trying to “make Momma mad” and talk about how a 50-year-old woman (as she was then) had to act like a 12-year-old…wisdom of kids, huh?


    • Chump Struggle–my mouth is permanently agape at your story. You ended up with OWhorezilla. I no longer care what happens to my X as I am channeling all my karma-bus-wishes your way, and hoping it rolls over that wretched woman, backs up and hits her again.

      As for ” If I hear the words “Get over it” from one more person, I might go postal.” Yes. yes.

        • Please take your children to a therapist ASAP. Hire an investigator to check into her past. A nutcase like this has to have a skeletons in her closet.
          Have your children call her by her first name and explain to them they have ONE mom.

          • Yes, this is more than likely not her first psycho rodeo-people do not become psychotic overnight-she must have quite a history.

        • Your case is really eating at me. If you don’t have a psychologist who will testify as to the horror of OWhorezilla calling you the “Birth Mother” and herself their real mother, email me and I’ll give you a letter to that effect: [email protected]

          • Thank you ladies. I’ve had then in therapy but their terrified of their father, so nobody has been able to get them to talk about what’s going on.

            • Chump Struggle,

              This woman is ill. The only way she can feel secure in her relationship with your husband is to have him prove, by abusing you, that he is loyal to her. Ask me how I know. No mature woman who is secure in her relationship is going to spend this much time harassing you herself or conspiring with your ex-husband to harass you. This has nothing to do with the kids and is all about punishing you. She’s a sick fuck. The only thing that works with people like her, because she feeds on the attention probably even more than your Ex, is to ignore them so hard that they begin to doubt their own existence. It’s like cutting off their oxygen supply. I’ve dealt up and close and personal with two fools like this – once as a child/young adult and just recently. This woman with your Ex is two french fries shy of being a bunny boiler.

              Tempest, I know why this is eating at you – you are clear about what crazy looks like and you know this is crazy. I’m horrified that there is actually someone crazier than my father’s second wife and the Ex’s OWife.

              Chump Struggle, Tempest should have my contact information if there is anything I can do to help you.

              • Chump Princess, thank you for your kind words. This is the first time I’ve shared some of my story and it feels good to talk to people that have actually experienced this type of abuse “get” what’s going on. I usually avoid taking about this to people because frankly, its embarrassing and they couldn’t understand what I’m going through because they’ve never experienced such horrible atrocities. It’s such a relief to receive good advice and support from other survivors.

              • Chump Struggle, I believe that in all states that stepmothers are legal strangers to children in all cases. I would hope your attorney can use this argument if possible. Also, go after attorney fees. Hopefully, the Judge will see this for what it is.

                I am so,so sorry that you are dealing with this. Hugs.

              • Chump Struggle, your story left me with my chin on the floor. Like, WOW. I hope you got some much-needed support today, and I hope you’ll write to CL so she can share your story properly and you can get the full force of CN backing you. I had a smug poaching OW, too, who was in love with her social media image (and just in love with herself in general), but this goes so far beyond anything I could imagine. As others have commented, it is abusive behaviour and disordered with a capital D. All I can think of is that movie, The Hand That Rocks the Cradle.

                Huge hugs to you, and hang in there. Come on the forums for extra support!

            • Please keep us posted on what happens, I am sending you hugs and prayers.

      • Me too, I cannot believe these people. Even among disordered freaks they are disordered freaks. I wish you lots of strength and some measure of peace while you go through this (along with a kick-ass victory in the end), Chump Struggle.

  • As an aside, anyone who uses “u” in place of “you” is worth divorcing for that reason alone.

    “u are not the boss of me, grammar!”

    (It makes me cringe just to write that.)

    • Guilty. So THAT explains y after 35 yrs of marriage he slams that book shut like this family never existed! Who’d a thunk it!!!!!! If only I had used full sentences and correct grammar. IDK!!!! 🙂

    • I think that she had been married to Prince, that explains the “u”. In this case, the response would be FU.

  • Wow…typo city…sorry about the many errors…damn you autocorrect!

  • “I’m sorry u got hurt and sorry kids got hurt.”

    Thanks to reading this site on a daily basis, reading the CL book, and researching infidelity in general, I can now pick these phrases out from cheaters like a pro. He’s “sorry” you were hurt and the kids were hurt. Nowhere is he sorry or apologetic for his actions. There is no acceptance of responsibility anywhere in that text, and I suspect he’s never expressed that to you at any other time. Classic blameshifting.

    Struggling, take that single line in a text as your cue that you are dealing with somebody who is simply incapable of recognizing how shitty their actions were. There will never be remorse. And even if his life did take a turn for the worst, it will always be somebody else’s fault and never a result of his own actions. Heck he might even find a way to blame you somehow.

    That’s how he justifies his choices, that’s how he maintains his own self image, and ultimately that’s how he lives with himself everyday. And sadly, that will never change.

    • OMG, Lost! You are describing my ex to a T! At one point he even took some responsibility for not treating the kids well, leading to their not wanting to see him. But now it’s my ‘years of alienating the kids from him’ that’s responsible. I bet he’s just as miserable as ever, but even now, years later and him w/new woman #2, it’s probably still my fault he’s not happy.

  • It’s going to hurt Struggling but if you are seeking justice as you mention, a good place to start is to find a pit bull attorney that can provide you a speedy divorce.

    It doesn’t matter what your STBXH deems as fair in splitting the assets – what matters is what the law imposes.

    My advice to you is the same as a Steve Miller song – “go on take the money and run.”

  • I hope I am posting right. Thank you so much chump lady & all who have posted.

    My children are 23 & 20. You are all right…..why am I talking to him?????

    As for the divorce, we have an agreement in place. I’m better off financially if it’s signed & we stay out of court. We are doing mediation.

    I will also be better off without him!

      • I just found out that my stbx structured his new business ventures so that retained earnings (a.k.a. hidden money) aren’t counted in calculating support payments. It is a trap!

      • Ha ha!

        Hands up – I confess to going against the advice of CN and, (bowing to pressure), agreeing to mediation… Nervous now. I don’t like traps much.

        Do any UK chumps think that mediation is a trap? UK chumps have to fill in the descriptively named ‘Form E’ for full financial disclosure, regardless of the method we use to negotiate and settle. Is it different in the US?

    • Struggling – Your husband is in a great place right now because you are being really really nice to him! He is woofing down CAKE every time you are abiding by the mediation rules. Mediation is a negotiation between two people who are honestly looking for a fair compromise…

      Does that sound like what your husband is? He does not know the meaning of fair and can’t be honest… He is not mediation material! You have a lot of power here, especially given your long term marriage and the fact that your kids are grown.

      Giving him two more years of centrality in your life is enough. It is time to go nuclear on that asswipe, there are few judges that will look kindly on a person who has a kid with a significantly younger woman while still married to someone else.

      Take back your power!

      My X was delaying the process as much as possible while living with his mistress, it became clear that he was going to milk this for as long as he could.

      I agree to one last negotiation session to finalize all matters, and indicated that after that session I would go to court with all the evidence, and I would depose both of them to have their behavior on public record.

      During the last session, he lost it, swore and screamed at me in front of multiple witnesses. They had to walk him to a different conference room. He folded after that, and the divorce was finalized a few weeks later.

      Mediation is designed for people how can collaborate and play fair. You husband has demonstrated that he has neither qualities. Give him a deadline for the mediation process, and at the same time, if it is possible within the mediation contract you can, go get a court lawyer.

      Then if the last mediation session fails, then file by your assigned deadline, along with ask for lawyer fees as part of your divorce settlement, and depose both of them.

      • Jumping in on the mediation thing — you know why you’re STILL NOT DIVORCED two years later? Because you’re “mediating” with a fuckwit, that’s why.

        Get a proper LAWYER and go after him. It’s expensive because it gets RESULTS.

        He’d had forever to get this shit done — let him explain his foot-dragging and his 17 month old to a judge.

        Let me guess — your fuckwit is the one who says how much the lawyers are going to cost and how it will cost YOU your settlement. (Or the children’s college, or whatever.)

        Please get a litigator. See the advice upthread on this.

        You’re still being chumped.

      • Thank you Chumptitude, HesatTheCurb, Valerie and all the others who commented recently on my posts. I don’t always respond, but your support comforts me immeasurably. Today sucks so hard, and I live for your kind words.

        I will jettison the “my” as suggested.

        I am glad to be a joker when I can. Tragedy+time=comedy. (What does comedy in the midst of tragedy factor-out to?)

        Chumptitude, your post re: mediation is a masterpiece. Whenever I get cold feet about dragging Match Stick into the divorce-fray, your words give me courage. I am so grateful for your presence here.

        Chumptitude, I’m sorry your X was such a colossal coward. It was his loss.

        • Ian – Thank you for your kind and comforting words, I am so sorry you’re having to go through so much shit to untangle yourself from Match Girl, she is a massive POS!


          I agree that Tragedy+Time=Comedy, CL’s new book is the embodiment of that! I’ve been reading it this week and have both cried and laughed at the unfairness of chumpdom and at CL’s unique way to deliver humorous and effective 2x4s to help us all remain sane despite the continued presence of the disordered in our lives.

          None of us deserved to be chumped, but I am so very grateful for CN and for your presence here Ian. Your wit, humor and resilience are immensely helpful. Knowing that you, CN and I are all in this together makes the burden of forging on to Meh easier to bear.

    • My guess is he wants mediation not only because it’s “cheaper,” but also to drag things out as long as possible. The longer this divorce drags on, the longer his excuse for not actually marrying the OW. If he REALLY was so happy with her and the baby, and he REALLY wanted them to be a shiny, happy family together, your divorce would have been final long ago and he’d be remarried.

      He doesn’t want to marry her, and he’s glad that you are acting as his excuse. Get an attorney, bang through the settlement, go NC on his cheating ass, and watch what happens.

    • I am just going to say a few more words on this whole Cheater mediation gambit. After this final D-Day and prior to filing for divorce, the first thing out of the Ex’s mouth was we should do mediation. Even though I could barely function or see straight, the “that’s some bullshit” part of my brain activated of its own accord when he mentioned mediation and what came out of my mouth was, “you have lost your motherfucking mind. I wasn’t born yesterday and I wasn’t born at night. There is no fucking way I’m doing mediation with you. You’re a fucking cheat and a liar and no one in their right mind does mediation with a cheat and a liar. In order to do mediation you have to be dealing with someone who is trustworthy and whom you can take at their word. That in no way describes your ass.” The only time I was lucid during that initial phase and when my self-preservation, you’re on some bullshit mode kicked in was when he would mention mediation. There was a part of me that knew it was just a way for him to fuck me over even more. We never mediated and the divorce dragged out for over two years – because of him.

      Yeah – no on that mediation with disordered cheaters crap. The best way to protect yourself is to get an excellent divorce attorney.

      • Chump Princess, good for you for seeing through his BS and not going for mediation. My ex dropped the bomb on me after work one evening, then emailed the next morning to say that he was coming home to explain “how this can all work.” There I was reeling because my life just exploded, but he’s already planned and plotted how to control every step I should take to make things easy on him. I told him there was no way I wanted to see him or talk to him and to stay away from me. I got my own lawyer, which was the best thing I ever did. She was a young lawyer working for an older pit bull divorce lawyer, so she charged less. Thank goodness she fought during the times I was too grief-stricken or confused to know which end was up.

      • Princess, I was of the same mind as you, but I’ve relented and given in to mediation. I’m shit-scared I’ve done the wrong thing now, reading all of this.

        Even though we’re mediating, I still have my own lawyer, and we’re still encouraged to relay discussions to, and seek advice from our own lawyers. Is that different to how mediation is experienced in the US?

        • OTCT,

          You can always have an attorney advising you. The problem with attempting mediation with these people is that you hash out something, come to an agreement, but if it is in your favor they change their mind or they change the terms. I don’t know of anyone who had attempted to mediate with a cheater (although I’m sure there are people who are successful; I just don’t know of any) who eventually didn’t have to go the attorney/court route. For the most part, when you’re dealing with these people, agreements and truth are situational and subject to change on a whim. The only thing I suggest is that while you’re in the mediation process always keep in mind that the person with whom you’re negotiating is a proven liar.

          In all the time I’ve known him, my EX has rarely maintained an agreement or kept a promise and told the complete truth, particularly when it became inconvenient for him. If you look up the word “deceptive” in the dictionary, there’s probably of picture of him next to it. He is also the poster boy for “situational truth” (read: damn liar).

          I actually hope everything works out well for you and in your favor. Good luck.

          • I actually had a successful mediation experience. BUT: I acted fast. Ex never expected his good little chump of 16 years to kick him out (D-Day#2) or fuck him over in the settlement. While he was still in twu wuv fantasy land, I acted. In our marriage, I was the one who handled all the “adulting” so he had no idea about anything. I also earned most of the income. That made it very easy for me to cherry-pick what I wanted, and since I knew I would be doing all the heavy lifting of parenting our kids, I didn’t feel bad about it. I got what I knew I needed if I ended up a single parent 24/7. He was so focused on Schmoopie and image management with his family that he just agreed to everything.

            Cherry on top? He was trying so hard to show Schmoopie that he was ending the marriage that had made him so miserable for so long that he actually paid the $400 filing fee himself. I would have paid half, but he never even asked. Idiot.

      • This is gold: “You have lost your motherfucking mind. I wasn’t born yesterday and I wasn’t born at night. There is no fucking way I’m doing mediation with you. You’re a fucking cheat and a liar and no one in their right mind does mediation with a cheat and a liar. In order to do mediation you have to be dealing with someone who is trustworthy and whom you can take at their word. That in no way describes your ass.”

        The lesson is: Don’t be “nice” to a cheat and a liar. Be kind to yourself.

  • CL- spot on, as always.
    Struggling, I completely understand your pain. I was also replaced by a younger model.

    But there is no way he is happy. either he does not know what true happiness is and is simply shallow, or it is a facade.
    You do not say how old your STBXH is, but after 27 years of marriage, I would say early 50s. Imagine being 53 and having a baby wake you up every night, three times a night? Going through the toddler years again, etc. No thank you!
    My ex is early/mid 40s and now has a toddler and an infant with the OWife, and boy does he look tired. Between the job that he does not like (pushed by OWife, I am sure) and the younger kids, life is not treating him well. He recently had a procedure to remove (pre?) skin cancer, his back is still bad,etc etc.
    Me, I could care less about his life except how it affects my kids’ support, but I got to hear all these things at a kid event which he attended.

    Just remember, it is all show.

    As for you: limit contact, and finalize the divorce!
    You were in a partnership for 27 years. That’s what marriage is, and what the cheaters do not understand.
    Time to get what is due

    • +1 to zyx321’s comment: “he does not know what true happiness is and is simply shallow, or it is a facade”

      Although he may be outwardly presenting the happy, new life it’s probably not as rosy as it appears. Entitled 50-something year old men will soon tire of a baby’s centrality and a toddler’s demands.

      My 53 yr bailed and knocked up a 26 year old and is very, very happy!!! 3 years out my daughter saw him this last Christmas as he was spending some time apart from OW and baby as “they were having relationship issues” He also mentioned to DD that OW was practicing “natural weaning” and the kid was still breastfeeding at over 2 years old (which is admirable). What made me snicker though was the thought of him having to share tittie with a 2 year old. OMG – his needs are not the center of the universe, her has to share with a toddler, no wonder they were spending the holidays apart!!!

  • I agree with all the comments here and will add that he’s “in a very good place now” from his perspective and all you “see is he’s happy, happy, happy with no regrets” from your perspective because he’s still getting kibbles you and the OW. You need to get the hell out of the triangle ASAP and stop the kibble dispensing. He left you for another woman – get tough, go grey rock (since you have kids), communicate via email only in a business like manner about the kids only, and everything else about the divorce goes through the attorneys. Work with your attorney to determine the max that you want, present that to him, schedule a court date and hope to negotiate with him prior to that date. Get it done.

    Also, remember this – he’s already playing the OW by getting kibbles from you but she’s likely not recognizing it yet. Once you’re no longer a source for him, he’ll need more that just her to keep his ego satisfied. And the cheater’s world goes round and round, round and round….(to the tune of The Wheels on the Bus).

    • ByeBye, I like what you said. I enjoy when skankboy tries to find ways to get kibbles from me. To me it is him cheating on her. I’m sure howorker would not be too happy with him knowing he continually is trying to keep me on as plan B in his twisted, deluded mind. I truly laugh and take pleasure at his attempts. He just keeps trying to contact me in all different ways. Each time, I block, shut it down, delete, etc to remain no contact.

  • Struggling – Your ex-husband is a piece of work. He simply discared you and your family like you’re yesterday’s newspaper and simply wants to start fresh with his new bimbo. And here you are, left to pick up the pieces, while he’s off with his new conquest and wanting nothing to do with his previous life. It doesn’t work that way. He is still responsible for his own daughter and to be courteous and civil to you. And you are contacting him expecting him to relate to you, but that’s the last thing he wants to do with he. You’re simply an annoyance to him in his mind and he just wants to be done with his past. This completely enrages me.

    Listen to CN, and communicate with him only as needed and via email only. He isn’t your friend, nor does he have your interests at heart. And the more you give him your attention, the more he thinks he’s all that. And it’s just a matter of time before he is likely to pull the same crap on his current bimbo. This guy is such a loser. Sorry you have to deal with this, but you are in good hands here!

  • Great advice from all. Sorry struggling. You bred with a pod-person.

    Please respond to us today. Do you live in a locale where adultery is an option in pursuing a fault divorce? You got this asshole by the balls if so. He’s got a baby with technician, so he could possibly lose big in the divorce. Do you know if you live in a “community property” state or an “equitable distribution” state? Chump Nation is here for you.

    Go berzerk on him. Ask for the moon and the stars in court. Don’t agree to mediation, and don’t give him anymore tips on your legal strategy.

    Sorry especially about the he didn’t feel “appreciated” bit in his text. He’s a huge jerk.

    My last email to match girl was simple. Nothing but the subject line: see you in court, asshole.

  • This guy is on kibble overload and his new tech is on pick me dance overload. Two years, no divorce and she has given away the cow, the barn, and pasture for free. I can just hear him telling her, we can’t do so and so well because I’m still married. Too bad you can’t talk to her and ask her to encourage him to move the divorce along…just kidding.
    Things aren’t obviously that great Who wants full time toddler duty at fifty plus? Who wants to pay for college tuition in their retirement? He needs you so that he can avoid commitment to his new family. Stop all contact and watch it implode.

  • It sucks like hell to be thrown away but do what I didnt do quite soon enough. Get a pit bull lawyer who is happy to be an asshole for you. Take him to court asap. Pretend you have no feelings for him, fake it until your don’t. Don’t doubt yourself, press on. He’s a cold-hearted snake who gets off on seeing your pain, so don’t show him any pain. Repeat: he is a cold hearted SNAKE. The happiest thing in his life right now is not his baby and girlfriend, it’s seeing you in pain. Walk away and let him destroy his life on his own. You don’t want someone like that sleeping next to you anyways.

  • Reading & learning! If they have the stare fish eye look while they were with us. They will not give a damn of what is going on after.. That ‘s why I am waiting for a bad ass lawyer.. I need compensation for living what I am living. Just wish that when he gets older he will have the paranoia that the new whore will betray him that will be his punishment. That no one will take care of him when he gets older and he will go to a state facility for diaper change since no family will visit him. She was looking for a “meal ticket “.

    • Looking for the meal ticket AND got it. I just don’t understand how he can be so stupid!

      • Just to remind you again Struggling on how stupid he is – “I do not do things on a whim” – His actions contradict his words. He just got the Golden Globe of Stupidity.

  • Struggling –

    I recently had an email forwarded to me that my exdouchcanoe sent to his entire family on the eve of his wedding. It was so similar to this minus the sorry, not sorry part since the word “sorry” doesn’t exist in my exdouchecanoe’s vocabulary. He’s so so so happy now. Everything in his life is great, except for me since I am actively trying to sabotage his happiness with OW. In his letter he threatened his family that is there was ANY drama at his wedding, which included ANY mention of me (mind you we have a young child together, and she was going to be in attendance at the wedding) he was going to SHUT IT DOWN. IMMEDIATELY. It is shocking how they are cut from the same cloth. The reality is that anybody with a 17 month old is not that happy. They just aren’t. These two have had pretty much no foundation as a couple and then they throw a nasty divorce and a tiny child into the mix. (That poor child, by the way, my heart aches for that kid.)

    At the end of the day they are united by a common enemy. As long as they have you as their adversary they feel like their love is greater than the world can understand. They do not know how to function as a couple without drama and chaos. They need it to fuel their bond. I imagine it as a game of tug of war, and they want you to engage with them. Just drop the rope and walk away, as best as you can. Stop playing their game. Stop giving them something to bond over.

    • Makes sense, just hard to let go! Obviously I need a new approach.

      I keep thinking of him as the man I thought he was. Time to see him as the A** he truly is.

      • Once I started to see what they were doing as setting traps that they wanted me to walk into, it all clicked for me. They want to play the innocent victim card “see she is just so ANGRY. I can’t understand where it comes from. I can’t talk to her when she is angry like this.” It made me even more angry because I was really quite calm and he considered a short tone with him as my overwhelming anger. He is trying to rile you up, because he isn’t really happy. He probably feels a lot of guilt but he needs to be able to tell himself “look at how awful she is, so I know I made the right decision leaving her like that.” He sets up situations hoping you will walk into them and prove him right. He likely doesn’t even realize he is doing it.

        You’ll get there. 2 years from my d-day and a year from my divorce and I still struggle sometimes, but it’s better. Once you can put some emotional distance and physical distance you’ll start healing. Work on that divorce. You’re going to be okay.

        • Thank you! The support here on CN is overwhelming. Tears have flooded my eyes more than once reading the responses.

          • (((struggling)))

            It is hell to get divorced from a selfish cheater, go one step at a time, and please protect yourself.

            As CL mentioned, divorces are expensive because they are a worthy investment that gets results. Think that each dollar you get in your divorce is a higher inheritance for your kids and a lower burden they will have to support you as you age/retire. You’ve got this!

          • Struggling, you said:

            “So two years ago my husband of 25 years left me for his technician, immediately moved her in, got her pregnant and they are now living their happy life with a 17-month old….”

            One thing that might help you MOVE ON, it to look at the math. 9 + 17 = 28 months.. Therefore, your sentence should read: So sometime ago, my husband of 25 years started porking an office whore who cleverly got pregnant. Then my husband moved out, moved her in and now she is changing shitty diapers. Good practice for what my SOON TO BE EX douchbag husband will be expecting her to do for him in the future (may it come sooner).

            Think of it that way to help move on.

            • oops , mis-type 9 + 17 = 26, yes I can still add!! point being that he porked her first, then moved BECAUSE she was pregnant.

      • That is the hardest thing, to see him as he truly is. Many of us have spent years building up our spouse’s image, often at the expense of our own. When the scales fall from your eyes, you will be shocked at the bad behavior you tolerated to stay married. Take the money and run away from him as fast as you can. Speaking from personal experience, you will be equally surprised how hard your X will try to keep you in his orbit of insanity. After all, he needs someone to be the bad guy. Once you have no reason to be in any type of communication, cut it off! Let those two losers stew in the misery of their own making.

        • Violet, I was just talking about this with my counselor today – “many of us have spent years building up our spouse’s image…”

          WTF were we thinking? Sadly, I didn’t even know it was unhealthy to only see the best in someone…but it is if “seeing” the best means overlooking a lot of steaming shit. Plus, it’s likely the disordered are attracted to us for our accepting tolerance.

          Rueful shake of the head.

    • StrawberryJellyfish,

      That email is so evil. I think it was her pulling his strings. You mentioned elsewhere he referred to himself as “groomzilla,” that has her written all over it.

      Struggling, first, make sure you check “Notify me of new comments via email” so you can keep-up with all the comments here. Secondly, it was very helpful for me to read other Chump’s input regarding my STBXW’s emails and texts. His baby-mama is there in the background manipulating you too. He likely has her approve all his messages to you. Once he hits send they go off and have depraved Cheater-sex. Uggggh.

      You needn’t “figure him out” yet. It’ll come in time. But *only,* only when you get him out of your head.

      Thanks for your courage in engaging with Chump Nation. Don’t let the salty language throw you. You will never find a more beautiful band of compassion and mighty than here at Chump Nation.

      • Yeah, but Strawberry Jellyfish won (fistpump!) because evil X’s family met her for dinner when they first came into town, which is what prompted X’s warning letter about his wedding. (see Forums for full details)

        Strawberry Jellyfish 1. Evil X 0. [insert wicked cackle]

    • “At the end of the day they are united by a common enemy. As long as they have you as their adversary they feel like their love is greater than the world can understand.” sooo true!!!

  • My XW and her AP are moving into a house in my neighborhood at the end of the month. My son asked if I wanted to see it, and I said no. He wondered why I couldn’t be happy for everyone now that they get a big house to live in 50% of the time instead of the rental house (that the XW had to move into because I wouldn’t leave when she told me to get out). So I have an XW and son who just want to be happy, and expect me to be happy for them, or I am just bitter.

    I am so very sorry that he knocked up his girlfriend. It has to be so painful for you and your kids.

    The pain you want him to feel will most likely be felt by his AP. He’s going to leave her and the child somewhere down the road.

    • BADD – Managing a relationship with a young kiddo while living in close proximity to a cheater ex and their AP is a special kind of hell (ask me how I know…)

      Did you buy your home? Your son is correct, it is great for him to leave close to both parents, and live in a big house with his own room rather than in a rented house…

      Long story short, my kiddo is 50% of her time with me, and I found myself living in the building next door to the building where my X and his AP live. Do I want the karma bus to hit both my X and AP in a way that pulverizes them both to the point of extinction? Absolutely, I even have a special pitcher of mojito and popcorn ready for that day. I have crossed paths with my X and his AP a few times, and he of course has to bring her to kid exchange. Most times, I can keep my cool and focus on my kid.

      When having conversations with my kiddo, I keep it about her, about me being excited about her life and the blessings that she reports because of the gift of proximity I am giving her. I use CL’s brilliant “Cool, Bummer, Meh” approach as much as I can.

      Yes it is great that her dad bought her a new bike and is teaching her to ride in the neighborhood (after he avoided the task for years and criticizing me for buying a bike she doesn’t need)…
      Yes it is awesome that they are going on vacation (he is spending money on traveling while pleading financial distress to stop the divorce proceedings)…
      Yes it is helpful that if you forget some of your stuff, your parent can drop it off easily (although it often comes with additional bitch cookie requests)…
      Yes it’s great that both parents attend school events (although each event is another opportunity for X to bitch about my anger and bitterness as I refuse to have his AP attend the events)…

      Bancroft’s book on co-parenting with manipulative exes really helped me. None of these things are easy, it is a really delicate and exhausting dance, but for now, I am choosing this course for my young kid.

      When she gets older, she will be able to understand more and I can move further away, but for now, I keep myself in check and thanks to CN, friends, and therapy, my kiddo feels safe enough to talk to me about her life whether stuff happens at school, her dad’s or anywhere else.

      I hope this help you BADD, there is nothing fair nor easy about having bred with and living in close proximity to a selfish cheater and the AP.

      • Chumptitude–you put the M in Mighty. Handling a fuckwit with grace and dignity, while attending to your daughter’s needs first, is no small feat. And you propel your pain and anger into excellent advice & support to other chumps.

        When that karma bus hits X and AP, save a mojito for me (love the choice of drink!).

        • Thank you Tempest, I would not have been able to do this without CN and in particular your incredibly helpful posts and comments! Mojitos it is for our July trip :)!

      • I’m right there next to you Chumpitude.
        The ex bought a house in the same hood, and it is great for the kid. Not so great for me. I got the house that was originally mine before marriage. He likes to drive by, go talk to my neighbors etc. Of course the fact that my therapy partner’s car has been tampered with twice in the past couple months while it was parked in front of my house wouldn’t have anything to do with his living so close, right?
        May the karma bus strike swift and cold for you X and the AP.

        • AllOutofKibble – I’m so sorry you have to deal with this too!

          Not sure how restraining orders work, but can you document his drive bys, his contact with neighbors?

          Also can you have an ipad positioned to film your driveway when you have guests and document what’s happening?

    • Being A Divorced Dad,

      I wouldn’t call it bitter, personally. It’s being honest. Your son wants to know why. Tell him in appropriate language why, IMO. “The new house your mom has is just a reminder to me of her betrayal and how she blew up our family. That is why I struggle to be happy for her.” That’s honest, not bitter. We don’t call burn victims bitter who say “OUCH!” when touched, and marital betrayal is certainly a wound, a deep soul wound.


  • The text-speak U (especially in the same breath as a warning not to trivialize!) and the Hope u have a good day at the end make this bit of McMindFuckery really special. As is Church Lady special. What a tool he is! I’m so sorry you and your kids have to deal with this, and I agree with the other chumps that once the baby powder wears off on this new offspring, he’ll be finding himself “not appreciated” again. Of course it’ll be a tad more complicated than that. Hugs to you, and stay as NC as you can!

    • His epitaph: “It was a tad bit more complicated than I imagined.”

      When Match Girl started banging Match Stick, her writing skills devolved too. She is a PhD chemist and has a prestigious JD. Her texts became garbled text-speak replete with “u” right after she decided to go ride his baloney-pony. Maybe she couldn’t speak well anymore cause his dick was all off in her mouth.

      Struggling, I propose his new name be “Tad,” and she’s “Tech.” I only refer to my STBXW by her CN nickname. It takes the power away from her.

      What are other Chump’s nicknames for their Xs and adultery-partners?

      • Nickname for the XBF—the ‘penis fly trap’…it’s multiuse. Works for him AND the many knowing whores who colluded with him.

        @Ian: If I may suggest—stop referring to ECS as “my”–she’s “the”. You want NO ownership, right?

        • I realized awhile ago that I was now referring to “that marriage.” (sure as hell wasn’t my marriage)

          As for the children, I normally refer to them as “my children” or when communicating with Hannibal Lecher as “your children” so he knows to whom I’m referring, but never “our” children.

      • My STBX is Mr. Sparkles (even in my phone) and I call the AP #4.

        Funny, when Mr. Sparkles started texting me after he left, he began using emojis… I was like “WTF”… you’re almost 50… really? But #4 is ten years younger… ah ha.

      • The X is “Narkles the Clown” and his affair partner is “The Flying Whore” because he traveled for work and that’s when they see each other.

      • I’ve called them so many things but the latest is Timon and Pumba because that’s what they look like as a couple. Plus they think they are the most “perfectest couple evah!”

        • We call mine Chicken Little…..because every time something doesn’t go his way he acts like the sky is falling.

      • My ex is Fucking Liar Sociopath in my phone. I have no name for the OW, because they did not end up together. For any woman stupid enough to get involved with him now, “poor thing,” would probably be most accurate.

        • That’s a good one. Mine was “Do Not Text, Call or Answer” on the phone. Then I deleted him.

        • On my phone I just have a close-up pic of a horses ass associated with my ex-wife number.

      • Ian, he is MoFaux OR Fudge Nugget and she (who dumped him 3 months after I found out) is Dingleberry OR ClingOn. Thx for asking. I love calling them that.

        • Mine is “Lying, Cheating, Sack of Shit” in my phone, but colloquially referred to among family and friends as “Sad Sausage” because it makes me laugh every time I say and hear it. I’m happy to announce his motorcycle got stolen (not that I found out from him), and I have had a smile on my face all day because of it.

      • XW = Sparkles and AP she ended up with is Glittery Glen, although sometimes I call him Glen Blossom for the worst band in the 90s… The neighbor and long distance APs are simply Asshat 1 and Asshat 2

      • Sad to say, I was dumb enough to marry an admitted former cheater. That’s what love-bombing does sometimes.

        He already had the nickname snake, bestowed on him by a male co-worker, who knew of his exploits before I met him.. I just revived it because it appears he never stopped being one, despite his vehement protests that those days were over for him.

        The OW I know about is the Clueless Twatwaffle. Clueless because she eats up whatever shit he’s feeding her about me, and clueless to his real character. Clueless because she’s coming out of a marriage with another cheater, and doesn’t see him moving in for the kill. Twatwaffle because it’s just fucking funny.

      • I changed his name in my phone to Fucktard and put one of CL cartoon pictures; see, “Don’t be such a Polly Fucking Anna, everyone cheats.” Every time he calls or texts I’m reminded to “trust he sucks.”

          • I’m thinking of adding the ringtone, “So what” by Pink. It’s awesome. I wouldn’t answer the phone, but it would make me smile listening to the song. If I was a man I might add Liar by Profyle.

      • I call mine Hoesband because he couldn’t keep it in his pants if he tried. Every time it pops up on my cellphone I chuckle. Hoesband is still trying to work things out even after I cut off the kibble supply. Dealing with him is so exhausting. I can’t wait until the divorce is final. I plan on moving to another state.

        • The Coward and The Twat Troll.

          My parents like to call her The Tick because she’s a parasite. OTOH apparently there is lots of sex, so maybe it’s a reciprocal relationship.

          I’m just glad I’m not with him any more (ew.)

          Of course, my kids know nothing of these nicknames. I still refer to him as “your dad” where they are concerned. My friends don’t know, either–well, except for my CN friends.

          You guys are wonderful.

          • I call them: Asshole and Miss Piggy -or- Asshole and his Group Sex Partner

            My daughter calls them: “Him” and “the Worm(s)”

            My sons: don’t call him anything at all…ever

            If for some reason I am required to mention ex when speaking to my children (who flinch at any recollection of his existence), I call him his given name or “your ex-father”

      • I call the STBX Cousinfucker because that’s what he is. I call her Harley because he told me once she was the worst mistake of his life and he should have just bought a motorcycle instead. Now he can ride his Harley all the time.

      • Ian,

        satan and kroger ho – she dumped him when I filed though…those that follow kroger ho, I just feel sorry for them…

        …this might give you a chuckle Ian 🙂

        …before I blocked satan on my iphone…when satan would call a picture of him passed out in a kitchen chair would come up with the name (in caps) ASSHOLE on top…and his ring tone was a duck quacking 🙂 …once I was standing in line at a store and he called and I looked at the phone (I’m 5′ 3″…kinda short) so the guy in line behind me could see my phone over my shoulder apparently…he busted out laughing and I looked at him and he said, ‘Like him a lot do ya?’ and just cracked up. 🙂 it was a good shopping day…and I hate to shop 🙂

        • Oh, that is funny Jeep.

          Passed-out in a kitchen chair? Man, that takes some doing. Serious commitment to getting drunk or what?

          I can’t imagine how much fun it must have been to get somebody to see that on your phone. I’m sure that guy behind you went and told some people. “I was at the store and this girl in front of me – her phone quacked like a duck. Then it said asshole on the screen. Wow, that guy must’ve really pissed her off. She’s a badass.”

          • Ian, drinking was his second favorite thing to do (cake being the first I learned). Passing out was a whole weekend pastime for satan. When the truth of his cheating was known he began drinking every night…and possibly at work also. Not my circus anymore, thankfully, gratefully.

            I like that…badass 🙂 I’m gonna try that on for a while 🙂 Thanks 🙂

            • Jeeo Once i came out of the fog i took the bad ass stance topped with indifference and have kept that my persona with asswipe. Doesnt work well for him but works wonders for me! And yes ian they are all POD PEOPLE. Empty shells of shit.

              • 😀 I love you Kar marie!!! I think I like the thought of being a badass!!! WARRIOR woman 😀

              • Love you too jeep! I was always a potball concerning my family including asswipe. Do not fuck with me or mine. I am a kind compassionate loving caring person but dont fuck with my family! Im still that way with the kids. Asswipe who cares! Warrior queen is what its all about for those who wish to screw ya over. Asswipe still tells me he loves me i give him the stink eye shrug and say thats nice. He hates it. Still wants that fucking cake!

  • Any piece of shit who has to insist to others, especially the person he betrayed, that he/she is happy and “in a good place” is neither.

    If he keeps saying it over and over again, that won’t make it true.

    Happiness comes from within, not from a new baby-mama and a kid…while you’re still married. That’s not happiness; that’s desperately trying to create a new “normal” life to point to and say, “See! Happiness! I swear!”

    • Yep – “Happiness comes from within, not from a new baby-mama and a kid…while you’re still married. That’s not happiness; that’s desperately trying to create a new “normal” life to point to and say, “See! Happiness! I swear!”

      This applies double-time I would say if the pregnancy was not planned and a slip-up. He’s having to spin this hard as happy, happy, happy!

  • Your kids are PLENTY old enough to do their own communication with him…so let them…(I suspect you already know that).

    Your Lawyer is dragging their feet because there is more time=money in it as long as they can keep that clock spinning…so dump him and get someone to wrap this divorce UP.

    Your Ex being “in a good place” simply means that he is no longer attached to a woman who is not positioned (by marriage) to hold his shitty character accountable…cheaters like that, thus, it is indeed a “good place”.

    Once the divorce is final, OW will pressure him to get married…after all, they are a “family” now so what’s the hold up? THAT is when things will start to unravel for them…he will begin to feel smothered once again by having to be faithful and hold up to his responsibilities. OW will likely get pregnant again to keep him tied to her…meanwhile, his eyes will start looking for the next chimp to exit with.

    YOU are in a good place…someday you will understand it…meanwhile, fake it till you make it.

    • Sweetz hits the nail on the head here, every word. Watch and see, this is exactly how it is going to play out. I hadn’t realized Struggling’s kids were adults, so yes, there is no reason whatsoever to communicate with your ex. If he owes you money, let a decent attorney or the state agency deal with it.

  • Just my opinion and only looking at my cheater, but he thought everything would be absolutely heaven with his Schmoopie! But after the mediation of assets (of which I got 80% plus life insurance and retirement etc) and the divorce was final it turned out life for Schmoopie and cheater became all too real! Schmoopie was in a panic when he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and everyone in our family reminded her that she wanted him soooooo bad so it was HER problem! Then of course they did not marry immediately as my cheater had promised so she stood to gain zero if he died! Then his Father had passed away and cheater found out that his Father so disapproved of his so-called relationship that he wrote him out of his will! Oops! No money for Schmoopie and cheater there either! She was very put off that she was NEVER introduced to anyone in his family( his family made it clear she would never be welcome)! Yeah, all that fantasy love affair romance star crossed lover crap went right out the window!! They cannot be happy ever because their relationships are based on lies and deceit and it chips away at them daily. Am I sorry for them? Hell NO! They chose this willingly! If they ACT happy then that’s what it is…… An act! They soon realize just what a couple of low down ass clowns they are!

    • Wow Roberta! You ex and his OW got an earth mover amount of Karma! I think you take the prize for seeing justice in action. 🙂

      • Hope49, from start of affair to end of the romance of the century, three years! However, according to cheater, by the time our divorce was final the “fun” was sucked out of the relationship! There was no more sneaking around feeling they were getting over on anyone because her husband divorced her one year prior and then I was set free in March 2015. By May 2015 the unholy alliance was over essentially! Did I take glee in it? You bet!

  • This posting really hits home. It has been maybe 3 weeks since I told my cheater I plan to file for divorce as soon as he retires in 19 months. He was shocked and surprised, but not at all sad. We live reasonably pleasantly together (with me staying in a different part of the house nearly every second he is home.) Same idle “how was your day” meaningless chit chat, sharing of schedule info, etc. No loss of appetite, sleep, or general contentment on his part. It took me two years from D-Day to suffer the loss of the marriage I thought we had and accept it was irretrievable. He looked mildly annoyed and then got on with his life in the space of about 10 minutes. I am glad not to have to deal with whining, begging, faux-remorse shit, but by the same token, I am utterly shocked (again) at how little I mean to him. Intellectually I knew this was the case but my heart is still hurting for the person I had thought he was for 28 years. It still really hurts.

    • Dear Struggling,

      I just wanted to apologize to you for ignoring you completely while sharing my own thoughts about my own situation. Of all the sites to be self-absorbed, this one is not it!! I am sorry that your X is such a shit-head and I certainly agree with other posters that the best thing you can do for yourself is attempt as little contact as possible. With a daughter, no contact is probably not possible, but definitely concise emails at most. It is hard to not toss in general pleasantries such as “How are you?” because nice, courteous people just do that naturally. It takes genuine effort to be terse and then you end up feeling rude. But consider how well deserved that rudeness is!!! The hardest part of actually getting divorced is behind you … now you just need to patiently wait for time to gently heal the wounds. But don’t rip the scab off by actually talking to the shit. Best wishes to you and everyone here.

    • If he knows he has 19 months, make sure you have your financial ducks lined up and you are protecting yourself. There’s a long time for him to mess around with money and hide assets if he knows divorce is coming. I hope you have a very good attorney already lined up and the attorney had laid out the timing on all of this for you. You might be able to finish the divorce after he retires but start it now. Just be careful!

  • IMO – unless your child needs a bone marrow transplant and your STBX is the only donor option, go no contact.

    Raise your child as an awesome single parent… there is immense pride to be taken in that role. Don’t purposely exclude your Narcissist, but don’t go out of your way either to include. There is a great app called Put the kids schedule up on it so he has full access. He can decide when to engage, if at all (which it sounds like this fuckwit won’t).

    No more texts. None. Nada. You don’t need to feed him anymore kibbles. You’ll never hear what you think you want to hear.

    The best predictor of past behavior is future behavior – this isn’t just a bumper sticker, it’s true. He will walk on this new baby-momma, it’s just a matter of time.

    In the meanwhile, face forward, shoulders up high so your crown doesn’t fall off, and move on. You’ve got Chump Nation behind you and your kids need a good role model so they don’t grow up to think “hey, it’s ok to dump a wife and family for someone I work with and start a new family.” You got this.

    • I’m like a broken record, but here goes: Barring some emergency, don’t text. I wish I had a dollar for everyone, including me, who had gotten into an argument by text. Texting’s instantaneous nature not only can escalate a conflict, it provides a complete record of who said what in haste and anger. No good comes of it. I think of texting as someone having and open line into my head and heart. That shit needs to be shut down immediately. The solution or a google calendar is a great idea. Very impersonal. It’s not just to protect the chump from cheater’s unkind words; it’s also to foster “no contact,” because an excuse to reach out 1) usually backfires and 2) is not good for our healing and 3) slows down arrival at “meh.”

      • I agree LoveddaJackass! When my Ex came home he showed me all his paperwork from our divorce. Seems Schmoopie was extra busy sending all my texts to his lawyer along with her “interpretations”. Gotta love these whores who have so much time on their hands! Keep it civil, keep it business and that is only IF you must communicate, otherwise, that’s what lawyers are for!

  • Struggling~
    You are not going to really begin to heal until you are finally divorced. And even then it is going to take time. Please get a court date as soon as possible and get the divorce done. It is imperative for your mental health. Also, only communicate by email or text and do not expect him to agree with you or react in the way in which you think he should. He isn’t going to. Right now…..impression management is his priority. He needs others (and himself) to see him as being justified in his actions. No normal person throws 25 years of marriage out the window without a second glance. He isn’t normal….don’t look for anything that makes sense….you won’t get it.

    When my ex and began the divorce process I was in the same situation as you. He had moved the OW in to his new apartment and going out to dinner every night and taking vacations and I was struggling. It was the hardest thing to watch. He wouldn’t answer my text messages about the kids or my emails. He told my daughters that I needed to CALL HIM. He was going thru kibble withdrawal because I didn’t contact him!!!! Because I knew that it bothered him………………..I refused!!!!!!! It drove him nuts and made him miserable! I found great comfort in that. Please do the same thing……..I promise it will help!!!

    You need distance from this pond scum and his twat! The sooner the better!

    • Strugglings kids are 23 and 20 years old. There is ZERO need for her to communicate with Ex. Her kids need to NOT have momma buffering between the asshole and them as if they were still in grammar school. THIS is when the kids will learn more about his character…when THEY have to deal directly with him and his whore.

      Also, Struggling NEEDS to tell her kids that she wants ZERO information about Ex or his whore’s “family” life. ZERO…unless Ex dies.

      That is probably the greatest thing that can help get to the “place of MEH”.

      • Sweetz, exactly! My daughter is 19 and lives with me when she’s home from school. She schedules her own time with him, shares what she wants to share with him, let’s me know when she’s going to see him just so I know where she is but other than that, we do not discuss him at all. He and I are no contact – period. Occasionally she will briefly say something about him usually when she’s frustrated with him and it’s always comical to me but I do not react in front of her. She asked a few months ago if the 3 of us could have lunch together and my response was ‘that doesn’t work for me but you can certainly have lunch with him’. She decided to have lunch with just me instead.

        It was certainly a struggle to get to this point but much easier now that we’re here.

  • First off, let’s be brutally honest! No one living with a toddler is happy. Don’t buy that shit for a minute. You’re overtired, and your life is run by someone you are constantly running after, chasing after and trying to keep from the sudden death that is any normal household. If living with a toddler is his happy place, he’s more messed up than I can ever fathom. (Note: I love my kid too but I’m being honest. Your life may have differed on this note.)

    Second…. No Contact, No Contact, No Contact, No Contact, don’t ever call, only email and text and save them. No Contact is the path to the truth and the light!

  • While in the middle of wreckonciliation (still in that space) my H. keeps telling me, he is not who he was and that he is “depressed”. It seems that the dark place is very common in the cheaters.

      • Hi Tempest. You are right. He wants me to feel bad about him. He concluded he was “going thru a hard time in his life” right after I threatened him with visitation rights and child support, going to court, etc. He couldn’t believe I was talking about it since I never had. But I will…

  • You want him to be miserable? As someone before me said, get out of the triangle. When you are present, in any way, they are a happy-dappy Struggling-hating team. When you get out of the triangle they are either stuck with each other or drawing someone new into the mix. Guess who will be teamed up against when a new person enters and you are gone.

    • Absolutely spot on Jbaby! It’s no fun once they basically have no one to torture or “fight” for their special Twu wuv! Once my Ex and Schmoopie had only each other it was “over”! She wanted him to marry her as he had promised and from there it was downhill!

  • Wow! Thank you. I’ve been crying tears of gratitude as I read the responses. I have made it all to easy for him. If I only had the time to tell you the things I have done because ” I don’t want him to hate me.”, “I want to be the bigger person.” OR “I just don’t want to make this harder on my children.” Now I’m thinking……What if he gets away with it & never suffers the consequences?

    • Struggling–Ian’s meme is correct; the only way for you to heal is to go no-contact (or grey rock if contact is ever needed–“Just the facts, ma’am.”).

      If you go NC, or grey rock, you are no longer a supplier of narc kibbles.

      No longer a supplier of narc kibbles? You will be further devalued (= he may hate you).

      Bigger person, schmigger person. The road you want is not necessarily the high road, but the dignity road, and *most* certainly the road-outta-here.

      I suspect your children will handle this better when they see you drawing a firm line in the sand.

      And let the universe take care of his consequences (it typically does).


      • Struggling, you are already the bigger person. You will show how much bigger by going NO CONTACT. I sort of get the issue about not wanting him to hate you, but that’s like licking crumbs off the floor instead of buying some good Sourdough bread to eat. In some past life, you wanted his love. Not you are settling for “not being hated.” How about cutting him out of your life so you can get to happiness? That will mean learning not to care what he thinks about anything, including you.

        Two and a half months after D-Day, I had business with Jackass via mail and suggested we meet and get “closure” so we could “save our friendship.” He shut that down immediately. It was the only decent thing he did for me. It took a long time and conscious effort but I rarely think of him at all any more. I hope I never ever cross his disordered mind again.

        If your STBX was happy, he would be expediting the divorce to marry Schmoopie. He likes the triangle. He likes your attention. He likes her attention. And he like being in total control–she can’t force his hand about marriage, you are still tied to him and talking to him, and he is…central. Shut that down. Figure out what you want from the divorce, bottom line. If you go No Contact, it might start to scare him a little. Deal with him only through the lawyer and only if he initiates or the court requires it. No calls, ever. No texts, ever. No email response from you, ever. The clock is running. It costs him money, too. Don’t give him what he needs to pay for.

    • “the things I have done because ” I don’t want him to hate me.”,”

      Wow, Struggling, are you me? I also suffered from the, “Oh, I don’t want him to hate me, ” syndrome, and did my best to make it all as easy as possible (read, as easy for HIM as possible.) You know what that got me? Screwed, that’s what it got me, and you know what else? He hates my guts anyway, blames everything on me, continues to harass me whenever possible about the support money he owes me (I blocked him on my phone, email and Facebook; just got a snail mail letter from him) and has no intention of EVER fulfilling the divorce orders.

      Forget about making nice with your ex. I wish Chump Lady would write about how hard it is to swallow the fact that the disordered ex is going to hate you no matter what you do, because that is REALLY HARD to accept. I still struggle with that one, but it is what it is. Anyway, Struggling, do what you need to do to get the support money, go as NC as possible and give up on your ex acting like a human being because he ISN’T one.

      • I wish Chump Lady would write about that, too. Maybe it’s me being a PermaChump but I can’t get past the hate XH has for me.

        Rude, insulting, belittling emails on OFW. Lying about me to our friends and his family. Terrorizing our 17-year old son during court-ordered visitation. Refusing to fill out his part of the FAFSA so that our college daughter can receive her federal aid. Taking me back to court. Yes, three new motions were filed last week.

        I never wanted him to hate me either, Struggling. I thought if I played nice he would live his new life and leave me alone. Nope. Not happening. 27 years of being a good wife and mother mean nothing. Thank God I have a good lawyer. You get yourself one, too!

      • I spent the MARRIAGE trying to make things easy for the ex. No accountability, no responsibility, complete trust cause I thought he was a Good Person. That fucker will never have it so good with anyone else, lol.

        • Exactly what I say, Anita!!!! The Evil One didn’t have to pay a single bill, I supported his fat, fucking mooching, leeching ass for 13 years…now, he has to work two jobs to support himself and Mrs. Dumb-Ass and her two kids…he never had it so good than when he was with me and never will… hahahahhaaaaa, Karma’s a bitch!!!!

      • Glad, he hates you because leaving you(because you are horrible) did not work out. Somehow it HAS to be your fault. It has to be otherwise he will see the giant turd staring back at him in the mirror. Don’t you love how much power and control you? She says sarcastically.

    • I am raising my hand for the “Don’t want him to hate me, be the bigger person, do what’s right for the kids” club.

      Struggling, let me tell you right now you might as well dispense with that line of thinking because you know where that gets you? Fucked over repeatedly. While you’re trying to be the adult in the room, they are using your reasonable approach to lie to you, cheat you and fuck you over in any way and every way they can. Ask me how I know. Normal people would appreciate your willingness to be fair and decent and they would attempt to reciprocate the behavior and meet you halfway. These people are not normal the way you (or we) understand normal. Stop trying to recast your STBX into being the person whom you thought you married – he isn’t and never was and never will be that person. Underneath his mask is a pig-faced alien and inside where a heart should be is an empty black hole. That’s the real him.

      I finally got to a place (too late, but better late than never) where the light bulb went off and I realized the fucker I had married had hated me for a long time and it didn’t matter what I did or didn’t do. My attitude became, “I give less than a damn if you like me, but you’re going to show me some respect, Asshole.” In order for that to happen, I had to begin showing some respect for myself. That was when I said “fuck this shit” and started looking out for me (and my children). If I needed to communicate anything to him, I began telling him, not asking. You don’t like it? Let the attorneys handle it. And do you know what? You can still be fair and not mistreat him in any way. You simply don’t allow him to mistreat you in any way. Need to communicate with him in any way regarding the divorce? Email your attorney with your concerns and copy him. Always end the email with “by copy of this email I am advising Dickface Asshole of blah, blah, blah.” Reduce him to a copy and not an addressee – in your correspondence and your life.

      Struggling, start dealing with this emotionally-stunted adolescent in an adult body the way you would deal with someone who showed up at your door selling mildewed rags or dog shit – like the smelly nuisance he is. ((Hugs)) to you.

      • This is GREAT advice. Reduce him to a copy and not an addressee. In other words, demote him from his central position to being…a copy of a communication to someone important.

      • chump princess…Omg, you are soooo right! being nice will get you no where, you will get blamed for ANY problem in their life, for the REST of their life. i wish i would have been hard core and earned the shit he says about me. and sadly you’re right, he obviously hated me for a long time…give the man a fucking Oscar to hold it in as long as he did.

        • Thank you Kellia, but I had lots of help from a really good girlfriend, the great advice given by people on this site and my own brand of insanity. It seemed like it took me forever to get to that point of realization that my EX had two ways of dealing with me – abuse and confusion – and I was done with him abusing me. Every time I went off script it confused him because he wasn’t in control. He ended up abusing me horribly financially throughout the divorce, but he was going to do that anyway. When you’re in a fight for your life you’ve got to get comfortable taking the metaphorical body blows and picking your battles. But just like in Rocky, at the end of the fight, I was still standing and that was a victory.

    • Here is another practical thing for you to consider…

      WHEN he dumps the OW (and he WILL just as soon as she begins to apply enough pressure to get married once the divorce is final)…he will have to pay CHILD SUPPORT for however many children they had…YEARS of it. This comes straight out what would have been your household income had you taken him back once she got pregnant…and likely, you would have been the one writing out those checks each month as a reminder of what he had done. He will also want contact with the kids…which means with HER also.

      You NEED to settle up asap with him. Mediation is only a way to keep things dragging on indefinately.

      • My grandfather dumped three wives when their kids hit adolescence. Total casualties: 3 wives, 7 kids, 2 stepchildren.

    • My counselor and I have been doing some work on being true to my emotions. Your comment about “I don’t want him to hate me” struck me as something I would have said. Then I thought – why wouldn’t you want him to hate you? If he hates you, that means that you have stood up to him. It means you have done something to right piss him off. Which means you are taking back control and not letting him control the narrative of how this is going to go down. I mean – he’s going to hate you no matter what because he’s a crazy asshole, so he might as well hate you for a “good” reason, like taking a chunk of his pension or whatever.

      I am a pretty easy going person and very accepting of lots of personalities. I don’t do well with bullies however because I will stand up for myself. That means that on occasion, someone will get into her head that I’m “difficult” or “mean” or the like. Long story short, it will become clear that So-and-So doesn’t like me. I consider this badge of honor. So-and-So is an asshole and bully, if who I am is reflected in part by the company I keep… then I do not want to count SoandSo as the company I keep. I am doing it right, when these kinds of people don’t want to be around me.

      You should want him to hate you… because that means that you are standing up for yourself, and making him mad, and not buying in to the bullshit he’s trying to sell you and doling out the consequences for his behavior. You are doing it right he hates you.

        • Yes, CAGal but I am not as badass as you and Tempest. I am working on it but my default setting is still set on conflict-avoidance. 27 years of emotional abuse will do that to you. It took everything I had to file for divorce and see it through. I thought when I finally got the decree signed that I could move on and heal. But I can’t. XH’s unrelenting hate continues to have terrible consequences for me and the children.

          So, speaking for myself, I don’t want him to hate me. I just want him to leave me alone.

          • well as someone said upthread – someone who will not sever ties and just leave you alone is an abuser. And it is pretty classic abuser MO to make the victim buy into the narrative “If only I didn’t …, he wouldn’t…” If only I didn’t let the children get rowdy playing video games, he wouldn’t scream at me. He wouldn’t beat me if I was better wife and remembered to get food out of the freezer for dinner.

            But abusers will always find some justification to allow them to exert their efforts at control and abuse. They have a pathological need to abuse just to feel something. You will never find a way to make him not hate you because you will never find a way to make him not be an abuser. You have to get your lawyers and law enforcement involved. If you have children, you have to hire a guardian ad litem and have them make recommendations. But some of these fucks … yeah… you do have to protect yourself and your children and sometimes that means taking one on the chin.

            But don’t confuse protecting yourself from abuse with having any control over how your abuser views you. He views you as a punching bag. Full stop. You can’t change that and couching it as trying to keep him from hating you is the wrong narrative in those cases. I’m not saying it is OK to have to protect yourself from abuse, but I realize that is the reality in some cases.

          • Eve: Yes, you are a badass!! You might not want to *have* to be, nor will you feel like a badass every day, but what you have accomplished against a toxic wingnut (and in favor of your family) is pure Amazon warrior.

            None of us want our Xs to hate them, but since they’re going to anyway, might as well accept it, shrug, and think “Toxic Wingnut hates me; I must be a good person.”

            I, too, hope he leaves you alone. Hugs.

    • Struggling, He already hates you, high time to give him a good reason to hate you. Pit bull lawyer and NO MORE CONTACT

  • “we disagree on many key points. Mostly the point where he doesn’t want to give me anything, he just wants me to go away.”

    Struggling, I hate to tell you, but you already hit upon the key issue right here — he doesn’t want to give you or your child anything, he simply wants you both to disappear and stop inconveniencing his shiny new life. That’s the bottom line. And it’s not going to change, not ever, so as others have said, stop communicating with him and start communicating with your attorney and your state’s child support agency (assuming you are in U.S., every state has such an agency.)

    The message from your ex was eerily like something my ex would write. Believe me, it’s not going to get better. My ex was willing to become a homeless bum to get out of paying support, and although that’s extreme, it’s very common for these disordered folks to become enraged when pressed to live up to obligations that they no longer care about. Let the law handle him for you, but don’t expect he will make it easy.

  • Wow! That could have been my ex writing that…except no children. That’s why he chose her – she doesn’t and isn’t able to have children. Sixteen years in and he was done being a full time dad. So now he sees his 13 year old son approximately 3 hours a week and his 17 year old daughter whenever they happen to cross paths, which is usually on major holidays. Oh, and did I mention both him and the AP are administrators in an elementary school??

  • Struggles,
    I think people who do this sort of thing manage to stay in their affair fog for a considerable time…years in fact. Their new life passes by like a dream, but somewhere inside their reptilian brains they know someday, somewhere, they will face the music. That music takes many forms…their adult kids reject them in old age, or they get bored and continue their wandering, or their AP trades them in for a younger model her own age. Or they spend too much and suddenly are no longer useful to AP.

    Don’t worry, karma is not your duty…just sit back and dwell on your own fabulousness, and one day, out of the blue, you will hear the news of the karma bus hitting them somehow. My OW was horrible, immature like yours, and she collaborated with Cheater to try to poison me. Really. The years sice the have not treated them well, and when I read of their troubles, I just a little warm shiver of schadenfreude. I’m not bitter! I consider myself very fortunate to have dodged a bullet and that two fuckwits are off the market.

    I’m sure to this day that she thinks she is flaunting her wonderful life on social media and making me cry…not! Her life is so incredibly tacky and pitiful, her disordered mind is only now really evident to me. She has no idea what classy means.

  • I can’t find the commenter that said you were married to a hologram. But I agree 1000%.

    Struggling, the most difficult thing is to see your EX for what he is — and then to really and truly acknowledge it. You still think he will play fair – he will play nice – that he is a good guy – after all, he was your partner in your life for 25 years. The reality is – it is like waking up one morning to discover that the person lying beside you in bed is a monster.

    CL wasn’t around when I was finalizing the paperwork with my EX. I did not understand anything about NC. I was playing the ‘we are still such good friends card’ when my EX (who at that point had already discarded the OW#2 & bought a new house) announced to me that ‘he had met someone and was very very happy’.
    Soon after that, she was moving in because she was pregnant. For a good part of my marriage (17 years) my EX acted like he wanted to be single and free from anything remotely committed/permanent. Now, here he was was so very happy with a younger version and a baby and we weren’t divorced yet. It was and still is the greatest mindfuck of my entire life. Please don’t fall into this trap.

    Once you go NC, things will be so much better. It can give you the space to properly process this nuttiness.

    And yes – nice people can go NC.


    • Last night, for the third time in a month, I listened to my closest friend — a serial cheater and a leaver — completely break down screaming, crying, yelling, sobbing. She is finally broken and on the verge of needing medical attention because she has come face to face with her behavior. She is finally owning up to the trail of destruction she left behind as she drove away from two husbands in two states to shack up with someone she met on the internet. (Yes, I know that some people here will read this and have a more firm stance regarding friendships with cheaters.)

      My point is, she’s been in a “better place” for two years since driving away from a broken man who begged for her return. But that place was an illusion she created to protect herself from any sort of personal responsibility. She no longer has the emotional energy to sustain the illusion.

      No matter how much the magician wants to convince you he really pulled that rabbit out of the hat, it’s not magic, it’s an illusion. And you can choose to sit in the audience and applaud the crap, or you can get out in the sunshine and remind yourself of the things that are real.

  • Haven’t read all the comments yet, but what really chapped my hide was the “I appreciate you picking up the phone . . . but don’t bother” part. That one not only implies incompetence or laziness on the part of the chump, but also implies that the call was made (not about the child) but to beg for the arsehole’s attention.

    What a douchebag. Good riddence to bad rubbish. One day soon, Struggling, you will be truly happy and relieved to be done with that condescending jerk. Stay mighty!

  • Struggling, I have never read a letter on this site that struck so close to home ~~ and I have read and re-read daily for over 6 months plus scoured the Archives! I could see and feel MoFaux (‘the’ fuckwit) speaking those very words with that same arrogant, pious, ‘enlightened’ attitude. And the instruction that I not contribute my response because I would be interrupting!

    The attitude embodies the entitlement, self absorption and image management that constitutes these cretins. No responsibility or remorse. Arrogant suggestion that you are not clever enough to figure out WHY he is making his colossally enlightened decisions. Decisively certain that without us life is simply grand (the first Xmas after I left he told me was his best Xmas in decades!!!!) And, dismissive ~~ you, over there that I have attempted to destroy, have a good day, eh?

    You have received the BEST advice here. And notice the continuity of thought! I, too, tried the high road (aka be nice) and it sucked. He took total advantage and expected that of his appliance (MayTag needed repairmen, but not chumpy Virago). Struggling, get out, go NC, the best lawyer $ can buy (even if it means debt it is worth it and interview the top 3 in your area so he can not use them), skip mediation (sorry!!) and get all you can while acting completely unfazed by anything he says or does . We love you and you are one of us!

  • This site has helped me tremendously in my situation. My husband had an affair and we were trying to reconcile (at least I thought). He told me he could not stop communication with OW (he tried be just couldn’t). Thank you to this site I have asked him to leave and plan on going NC immediately after he moves out. I will be filing for divorce once I am done with a medical issue I am dealing with (It should be done around November). My courage and guts to do this is largely due to finding this site and realizing I am and have been chumped for quite some time. I too wanted to be the nice person, the bigger person, didn’t want him to hate me, and have been doing the “pick me dance” all along and not realizing why I was doing these things until this site. I have been with my H since high school (28 years) and married 15 years. Our children are grown. I know it will not be easy but I am excited for what’s on the other side of this chapter of my life. I will continue to come to this site for encouragement to move forward and to stay strong.
    Struggling, my only advice is start focusing on becoming the best you, you can be. Do not worry about what’s going on with your H. Realize even if he is happy (which I strongly doubt), your priority right now is your happiness. Sorry for your pain. We will get through this together now that we have found a support group CN & CL. Sending blessings and hugs your way Struggling.

  • THIS took me nearly 6 years to truly absorb “He’s “happy” because he’s about an inch deep. No, your feelings do not matter to him. And yes, that’s the REAL him.

    If you insist on plumbing his shallow depths, you’re going to get exactly what you got — mindfuckery.”

    It is actually the most important thing for Chumps to grasp. When you get this, you can go NC, get the lawyers, and get the hell out of Dodge. It just takes a hell of a lot of getting. It isn’t quite human, that’s why.

    Thanks Chump Lady for this and ‘he has an elevator shaft where his soul is supposed to be’.

    The horrible and inhuman TRUTH.

  • This is all very interesting. After a 35 year marriage, I caught him yet again and he ran and stopped talking to me. One year later, I got a drunk remorseful call and then, nothing until last week when my lawyer called to say his lawyer called to accuse me of hiding assets! (Our divorce agreement has already been signed. My lawyer said when someone is a liar and a cheat, mediation is not an option.) I sent an angry text to the stbx and among other things, he said he was not sorry for WHAT he did, but for HOW he did it; and that he went no contact to ‘help me get over him’. What nerve! and What crap! It wasn’t getting over him- that big narcissist mf- it’s getting over the mf where for years, I did the dance, I tried to get him back (and actually took him back 4 times!), I was heartsick and I accepted ALL of the blame. It’s getting over the anger, disappointment, betrayal and fear. But, of course he thinks it’s deep love because he wants me and schmoopie to still fight over him. And of course, he couldn’t miss an opportunity to prove they are truly in love! Game over, she wins. He stopped texting me again when I asked him to please not hurt or disappoint our son anymore (who he hasn’t spoken to since he left last May). If I don’t exist, he didn’t do it! Selfish, calculating, narcissistic- can these people really be happy? Wherever they go, they take themselves with them- we can escape, but they can’t.

    • And this is why No Contact is essential. All you’ve done here is allowed him to take control of the narrative.

      No more kibbles. Block, delete, DO NOT REPLY.

    • “If I don’t exist, he didn’t do it! Selfish, calculating, narcissistic- can these people really be happy? Wherever they go, they take themselves with them- we can escape, but they can’t.”

      My ex also has no contact with me or our children. I agree it is just easier for him, lostandfound. If we don’t exist, he did not live a double life for the decades he did. And the AP he ended up marrying really IS his true love (even if she was simply one of his group sex partners before D-Day).

  • Hi Struggling. I’m so sorry to hear your story. I totally sympathise – this whole ordeal is horrific. I have only contempt for men who abandon wives and children. However I hope you don’t mind me saying, but I think you’ve misread his message. As far as I can see reading that – I think you must have said something to him in the phone call that really got under his skin. That message to you is the message of a passive aggressive pissed off person. So, I really wouldn’t worry about him being ‘happy’. I shouldn’t think he is happy at all – he’s just saying that to get at you and probably to try and convince himself too. From what you’ve said he’s about 50 at least and he has already been through the whole parenting thing once, and now he’s dealing with broken nights and a divorce and probably not getting nearly as much attention from the OW as he was banking on. He’s probably miserable. Of course he won’t admit that to you. I would agree with the general consensus on here though – try to minimise contact and stay away from him. It’s the best way to start to recover. He’s not your problem any more and doesn’t deserve any more of your time and energy. Leave him to his self-inflicted misery.

  • I thought about this line: “I appreciate u picking up the phone and calling about (daughter) yesterday, but I’m in a very good place right now.” This makes no sense to me, no matter how I interpret it. What does being in a good place, have anything to do about his daughter? What does interacting with his own daughter, have any relation to what status he’s in??

    So does this mean if he were in a bad place, then he’d talk about this daughter? It doesn’t make any sense to me. This guy is off his rocker…

    • He’s just taking any possible opportunity or opening to stick it to Struggling. If he was really (authentically) happy and in a good place he would not try and make Struggling miserable.